Patterico's Pontifications

9/24/2014

Architect of ObamaCare Hopes to Die at 75

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:48 am



The story is a few days old, but I just ran across something that seemed apropos to the story. And anyway: the issue here is the government taking over health care in service to a twisted ideology — and isn’t that issue timeless?

So, a week ago, Ezekiel Emanuel had an essay in the Atlantic titled Why I Hope to Die at 75. The deck headline reads: “An argument that society and families—and you—will be better off if nature takes its course swiftly and promptly.”

If Ezekiel Emanuel wants to die at 75, that is his choice. More power to him. But I don’t give a rat’s ass what he thinks about whether others should be living past 75. He has no business deciding the point for others. Perhaps I am a little sensitive to this, as my own mom is . . . 76 years old.

Of course, he disclaims any such intent. He claims he does not mean to disparage people who want to live past 75. But he has a very lengthy piece in a prominent publication that basically says most people are worthless after 75. He’s not just talking about himself. Even though he denies it’s so, he is trying to persuade you to agree with him.

So who is this guy anyway, and why do we care what he has to say? His bio at the end of the piece says:

Ezekiel Emanuel is director of the Clinical Bioethics Department at the U.S. National Institutes of Health and heads the Department of Medical Ethics & Health Policy at the University of Pennsylvania.

What the bio does not mention is that Emanuel is one of the architects of ObamaCare. Here is a piece by Emanuel in the Wall Street Journal talking about his extensive role in the crafting of that law.

When you get government involved in health care, you are headed for rationing. You are no longer free to make decisions with your doctor; those decisions will — mark my words — I say those decisions will eventually be made by people in government. I don’t care how many fact-checkers declare this to be a “lie” — when government controls something, you lose freedom. Period.

And one of the first places rationing will take place? In the care of older people. Emanuel is trying to make the case — posing as a disinterested observer — that this is a good thing. But in reality, this is propaganda for the Brave New World of the federal government deciding how long you should live, along with all the other things it is (and will be) deciding for you.

This morning I ran across a piece written by a 76-year-old, talking about how excited she was to have begun taking online courses. The piece begins:

On the eve of my 76th birthday in May, I felt a rare excitement. With people living to be 100, I wondered about the long years that lay ahead of me. Would my life be more of the same, or could a new passage possibly begin?

I looked to Grandma Moses (1860-1961), the celebrated American artist, who started a new career at… 76! All her life, she lived and worked on a farm, embroidering fabrics until she developed arthritis and found needlework too painful.

It was then that she taught herself to paint, although she was more proud of her preserves than her paintings, which she gave her many friends, including the postman!

Here, by the way, is an image from a Grandma Moses painting that is shown in the article:

Screen Shot 2014-09-24 at 7.35.26 AM

The article comes via Barbara Oakley on Twitter.

Ezekiel Emanuel would be quick to tell you that Grandma Moses was an exception, and that creativity generally evaporates far earlier in life.

So what, Mr. Emanuel? Tell you what. You and your loved ones can all die at 75 for all I care. Leave me and my loved ones the hell alone.

“Stabat Mater” means “the mother stood.” In honor of my 76-year-old mom, who still stands, I’ll leave you with Verdi’s Stabat Mater . . . composed at the age of 84.

Thanks to Ag80.

90 Responses to “Architect of ObamaCare Hopes to Die at 75”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. This is the same jerkoff who came up with “people who won the health lottery” [should not be exempt from having to buy into Obamacare].

    nk (dbc370)

  3. They will change their minds – he actually mentions leaving the option open in the article. He just wants to try and convince people to die sooner to keep healthcare costs under control, or possibly to support more healthcare rationing.

    OmegaPaladin (f4a293)

  4. I suggest a video response to Slick Zeke. The Zimmers, doing “My Generation”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqfFrCUrEbY If you haven’t seen it, you don’t know what you’ve been missing.

    nk (dbc370)

  5. I’m still working and teaching at 77. Did I miss my chance ? That jerk off must really hate his life. Or, of course, he could be lying, like his idol.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  6. Asimov had “The Sixty” as the limit in “Pebble in the Sky”

    Kevin M (b357ee)

  7. No Mike, he hates everyone else’s life. :)

    Pretty soon, the government will make smoking mandatory for those over 75!

    Of course they will ration, but obliquely. “Oh, you need a pacemaker? For your age group, we will reimburse you 25% of the cost. Next in line!”

    Patricia (5fc097)

  8. Death panels she said, although Betsy Mcaughey noticed it first,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  9. Why 75? Mozart died at 35. Galois, who invented most of modern mathematics, died in a duel at 20.

    Kevin M (b357ee)

  10. How really nauseating. But totally expected.

    Always so interesting that these “experts” know what’s good for the rest of us. How in the world can you make the assumption that people just aren’t “worth keeping alive” after 75?

    I also believe strongly that Hospice contributed to this slippery slope when they were ready, willing and able to kill Terri Schiavo by denying food. Hospice always before said that they would not come in unless the patient was terminally ill. Terri Schiavo was not terminally ill. (***sorry all those Hospice supporters out there, but this is fact***)

    At some point, (when I am dead and gone, thank God) Logan’s Run will become reality. My heart is sad for this because so much more than life will be lost.

    Charlotte (fc15f6)

  11. What a truly arrogant opinion from Mr. Emmanuel. His arrogance is not only aimed at your mother and other older people, but at his own future self. Does he not have the foresight to realize that his opinion will likely change 180 degrees when he is 74 years and 11 months old?

    My 92-year-old mother-in-law just had the opportunity to see her youngest granddaughter graduate from MIT. That is a lot of living in the last 17 years that she would have missed under the Emmanuel plan.

    Mike S (89ec89)

  12. Obamacare will not apply to Emanuel. Even if he is still not very rich, or does not have Gold Plan retiree’s insurance from his employers, he will move back to Israel, a country with 3.3 physicians per thousand of population, and take advantage of its health care system.

    nk (dbc370)

  13. Bite me Zeke

    f1guyus (647d76)

  14. The story is a few days old, but I just ran across something

    Just ran across it?

    This was already mentioned here on (Thursday) 9/18/2014 @ 9:12 pm PDT in comment #6 by Ag80 in the http://patterico.com/2014/09/18/justice-served-excuses-made thread:

    6.Speaking of people dying, did anyone else see this essay by none other than Ezekiel J. Emanuel, the author of our beloved Obamacare legislation?

    Sarah Palin was so stupid. /sarcoff/.

    The link is tied to the word :essay:

    I don’t look at the links more than half the time, but I did this, and had some thoughts, but I didn’t pull them together.

    1) In the first place, why 75, and not 80 or more? is is because people encounter troubke with walking after that?

    At a certain place the Talmud discusses what is a better death. It is better they say (it is specific Rabbis I think who say various things, but I don’t remember what) for someone to die after a prolonged illness of at least fve days than to die suddenly. Except after the age of 80, then maybe it is better to die suddenly.

    I think the reason is because after age 80 death not too long in the future is almost inevitable, so maybe you must have made your preparations before, and people expect it already simply because of the age.

    I still think is wrong, but it is a kind of reasonable idea.

    2) hat he says reminds me of someone. I remember someone – the wife of a nephew of my father’s aunt by marriage who died in 1991 in an automobile accident traveling from Ohio back to New York. Her husband’s air bag went off, but hers did not deploy. Her daughter spoke at the funeral and said, that her mother was afraid of growing old, so she got what she wanted. (not what her daughter wanted) She was I think about 76.

    But only a small minority of people are like that.

    A second question for Ezekiel J. Emanuel: Why talk about disease? Would he not like then, to die in an accident from internal bleeding and blunt force trauma?

    3) Ezekiel Emanuel seems to value life, or living longer, only by the value of original things he might contribute – by someone’s creativity. Is that the only value of life? Isn’t there some value to continuity – to seeing thinbgs through, perhaps, or correcting misunderstandings of otehr people?

    And, as far as creativity is concerned, he constantly encounters counterexamples. He declares them all to be outliers, but are his outliers really such outliers?

    It is like wanting all baseball players to retire at the age of 35, because they get worse after that.

    He says one third of Americans over 85 have Alzheimer’s disease. That means 2/3 of them do not – and this is all ages after 85, not that one third of them get it by age 85.

    4) He writes:

    I will die when whatever comes first takes me

    Why is he assuming a cureable disease is a better death than an incurable one? Or that a worse death will follow if an earlier one is avoided? Does anyone know?

    You can get pneumonia at a later age, too.

    And again, why 75? Is that because then death looms as a real possibility?

    5) His complaint about old age is really disability. What about younger people with disabilities?.

    6) One reason he gioves for wishing people to die at not too old an age, is that they sometimes had chldren when they were young, and if they don’t die before they get too old, their children will never get a chance to be the oldest persons in their family = never escape the shadow of their parents or if they do they’ll be too old to enjoy it.

    When parents routinely live to 95, children must caretake into their own retirement. That doesn’t leave them much time on their own—and it is all old age. When parents live to 75, children have had the joys of a rich relationship with their parents, but also have enough time for their own lives, out of their parents’ shadows.

    Does he really want to see King Charles III? Does he pity the fate of Edward VII? Long live the Queen!!

    7) Further along these lines, he argues people will remember them in their old age, in their disability, while if people die younger people will remember them in their prime.

    Can’t people do both? Take motion pictures, leave lectures.

    Move and don’t anyone see how decrepit you have become.

    If that’s what they are worried about, it seems like a better idea.

    If they die younbger, they’ll remember them less, period! And if their children alsodie youbger, they’ll be remembered for less time.

    As far as remembering is concerned, there was an encyclopedia that decided to do artivles on people who were dead, or had reached the age of 70 This was published in 1978 – it was the Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences or something like that. This seems like a better idea.

    I mean, if being commemorated is all important, you can do that. And what’s more, you could actually correct your obituary. Just publish them when someone reaches the age of 70.

    The one public policy change he advocates, is that all deaths after the age of 75 be cosidered to have taken place at 75 for the purposes of life-expectancy health statistics (Ithink that’s wqhat he;s saying)

    Sammy Finkelman (6d2ca9)

  15. Points sail over Sammah’s head

    JD (f2fd2f)

  16. This is not Jewish tradition. We pray for life, and say to God he loves life.

    Even the person who said that it is better to die from a prolonged illness of at least
    several days, but that after age 80, it is better to die from a short illness rather than a prolonged illness, didn’t say or think, that it is better to die years sooner than might otherwise be the case.

    He was thinking about the manner of death, not the time.

    And quite posisbly it gets easier if someone makes it to prolonged old age.

    And there is a value to a gradual withdrawal from life.

    Sammy Finkelman (6d2ca9)

  17. 15. JD (f2fd2f) — 9/24/2014 @ 9:05 am

    Points sail over Sammah’s head

    I don’t think By Ezekiel J. Emanuel really had any ulterior motive in writing this. It has to be taken at face value.

    He does want to convince people, but mostly so that people shouldn’t say he is wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (6d2ca9)

  18. Sammy-

    Zeke Emanuel is a radical policy provocateur who additionally appears to be unduly aware that his two brothers are more famous and richer than he is. He likes interviews and attention. Nuff said.

    elissa (354b3c)

  19. The first and most important thing to remember is that he is lying.

    The politically connected never have to follow the rules laid down for the lesser people and he is politically connected. He knows full well that he will have an escape from any system he advocates. He will not be held to any of these rules ever. He is lying, lying, lying.

    This is how it has worked in every nationalized, socialized health care system ever. The wealthy and politically connected have private hospitals where ‘the rules’ aren’t followed, where they get the best of everything. He knows that’s where he’ll be going no matter how old he is.

    luagha (e5bf64)

  20. luagha @19.

    The first and most important thing to remember is that he is lying.

    The politically connected never have to follow the rules laid down for the lesser people and he is politically connected. He knows full well that he will have an escape from any system he advocates. He will not be held to any of these rules ever. He is lying, lying, lying.
    He specifically says he is not advocating anything here (except maybe that people follow his example) and, except for standard advance directives and a do-not-resuscitate order he’s not committed himself to anything – and he could revoke or it cold be ignored.

    Of course when he gets to be close to 75, he may think differently, but according to him, he’s told his family this, and gotten arguments from them. Unless that’s a lie too, its not quite such a simple lie.

    Seventy-five.

    That’s how long I want to live: 75 years.

    This preference drives my daughters crazy. It drives my brothers crazy. My loving friends think I am crazy. They think that I can’t mean what I say; that I haven’t thought clearly about this, because there is so much in the world to see and do. To convince me of my errors, they enumerate the myriad people I know who are over 75 and doing quite well. They are certain that as I get closer to 75, I will push the desired age back to 80, then 85, maybe even 90.

    Elissa says he is a radical policy provocateur who likes interviews and attention, but that could also be from his family..

    Sammy Finkelman (6d2ca9)

  21. “In the first place, why 75, and not 80 or more?”

    Emmanuel’s math is off. I have studied medical care for the “frail elderly” to the point of having a grant application back in about 1996. The cost of care for the elderly drops off after 75. What are left are the healthiest subset of people who have outlived most of the degenerative diseases, except arthritis, but even the joint replacements drop off after about 80 as those people don’t want to go through the trouble. Health care costs peak about 72 and decline thereafter. My data is about 20 years old but I doubt it has changed that much. My grant proposal was to study if “tuning up” elderly people with interventions would result in less cost afterward. The medical faculty was enthusiastic but the administrators killed it.

    If anyone is interested, the proposal is here along with the studies supporting it.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  22. “The politically connected never have to follow the rules laid down for the lesser people and he is politically connected. He knows full well that he will have an escape from any system he advocates. He will not be held to any of these rules ever. He is lying, lying, lying.”

    Absolutely. Perfectly explained. The rules are for us “little people.” When did we go from being citizens to being “the governed?” I guess when we got hooked on the idea of free stuff.

    Margaret McCarthy (b5205a)

  23. Flying over his head?

    I think Sammy #14 is spot on with points 3 to 8. Always some a8hole who thinks I’m in their way, is why I don’t feel the need to justify my existence by tales of accomplishments (actual or imagined).

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  24. I’ll be 75 in a couple of months. However, I’m still working and paying well over $40,000 per year in income tax. With no immediate plans to retire. Based upon the unbelievable lengths politicians will go to just to get their paws on a few more bucks in tax, am I “worthless”?

    Just askin’…

    GaryS (3e8dcf)

  25. The irony about all this is that the Dems ran an ad show Paul Ryan pushing Granny over the cliff in her wheelchair.

    AZ Bob (c949f7)

  26. Eugenics. It’s what Democrats are serving for dinner again.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  27. Eugenics is exactly spot on. Democrats have been in favor of population control and they talk about Eugenic principles surrounding abortion all the time. (Their life will be worthless anyways, why not kill them before they are born?)

    Dejectedhead (a094a6)

  28. Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/24/2014 @ 9:49 am

    When I was in my Family Medicine residency, one of the surgeons we regularly consulted always said, “There’s a reason this person made it to 80, or 90″.

    My grandmother was still mowing her own lawn with her 30 yo electric mower at 90. I was not happy (read: understatement) when local docs suggested we let her die from gallstones without doing anything, especially since it took all of about 45 minutes for someone at the university hospital to take them out by endoscopy.

    Once again, Sarah Palin, just as Romney with Russia (and now Bush with the need for an ongoing fight against jihadists), is proven correct.

    It is completely intellectually consistent, though. No need to “put up with” inconvenient “unwanted” children or unwanted old folk, either.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  29. The Democratic party platform is at odds with itself. They advocate expansive welfare systems with majority benefits going to older populations that are paid for by younger workers. Yet they advocate for population controls which reduce the younger generation population size, which leaves the young with a larger bill. It appears that they know this dynamic exists…which is why they’re now advocating population control at the older ages to compensate.

    I don’t know if they KNOW this is what they are doing or if they’re just stumbling around creating this stuff…either way, its terrible policy.

    Dejectedhead (a094a6)

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  31. In Seattle there is a great tradition of individual Democrats dredging up hundreds of perfectly legal votes for their candidates by working thrugh the assisted living facilities the day after the ballots arrive by mail. It is unlikely that the party bosses would go for the idea of turning off their base’s oxygen over the age of 75.

    bobathome (5ccbd8)

  32. Under Ezekial’s POV, we should encourage smoking and drinking. Cuts down on unproductive, post retirement years.
    .
    .
    .

    I mean if it is all a utility argument and only the Govt decides utility then I want to be the Government official exterminating useless people like College Profs who don’t teach, Irrelevant Writers and Editors who don’t make money, Union workers who don’t really work, Government Workers in low value jobs …… Secretary’s of State who don’t even pay attention to their Boss’s FP positions.

    No doubt Liberals would fare worse in this type of world.

    Rodney King's Spirit (8b9b5a)

  33. And as with taxes, my response to Liberals, you go first.

    When you are done, let me know.

    Done giving away all your wealth, I’ll be happy to consider paying a little more.

    When you are done exterminating yourself, I’ll be happy to consider similar.

    Be a shining example Liberals to us unwashed barbarians of your enlightenment.

    Rodney King's Spirit (8b9b5a)

  34. What they don’t mention is that there will be a cutoff at a certain age
    but there will also be certain other criteria used besides age only.

    Guess what those additional criteria will be?

    Race? Political party? Donations made? Class/wealth? Genetic history?

    Seems we’ve heard this song before.

    jakee308 (d409c2)

  35. He’s related to Rahm–what do you expect?

    I see that Rahm is proposing that we decriminalize a bunch of drugs here in Illinois–maybe the plan is to keep us all addicted and doped up so that when the death panels rule, we won’t notice.

    rochf (f3fbb0)

  36. I very much wish we could read or hear the late C.S. Lewis’ reactions: Ezekiel Emanuel is a 21st Century Screwtape to Obamacare’s many Wormwoods.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  37. Logan’s Run indeed.

    I just checked and there are 17 U.S. Senators who will be 75 or older in 2016 can we get Zeke to convince the Dems on the to prove they are truly leaders?

    Vlad (7cd2a1)

  38. Actually, I suspect it will be 75 for everyone, except for those of us deemed essential. By us.

    Kevin M (b357ee)

  39. Not die at 75, they will “depart for elsewhere!!”.

    Perhaps ‘carrousel’?

    Richbert88 (ddc02c)

  40. http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/09/ruth-bader-ginsburg-tells-liberals-theyre-stuck-with-her/380697/

    She points out that the time when she could have resigned ands allowed Obama to name a successor has passed.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  41. jakee308 (d409c2) — 9/24/2014 @ 12:43 pm

    Guess what those additional criteria will be?

    Race? Political party? Donations made? Class/wealth? Genetic history?

    It doesn’t matter.

    If someone has good political connections, or can get their name into the newspapers, they’ll qualify, whatever the criteria are, just like what happened recently in the UK..

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2756189/Ashya-King-begins-proton-therapy-treatment-brain-tumour-Prague-19-days-parents-removed-NHS-hospital.html

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  42. About five years ago good ol’ Zeke came to my attention when he was appointed Obama’s advisor for public health policy. I found an article he had published in one of those scholarly journals outlining his view of healthcare in an age of constraints (rationing).

    The basic outline went something like this:
    – there should a bell curve defining healthcare coverage and expenditures for individuals
    – the baseline is age

    – from birth to about age 15 you are in the lefthand tail of the curve
    + you have no ability to contribute to society or the economy
    + society has not invested very much into your existence before age 15
    + serious illness diagnosed in this age range may be a life long malady requiring expensive
    treatments over a lifetime
    >> Therefore from a societal perspective, no effort should be expended in addressing any serious
    illness you face; palliative care only

    – from age 16 to 60 you are in the middle portion of the curve
    + you have survived childhood illnesses so your health should be relatively good and stable
    + your worth to society can be measured by your ability to earn an income which generates tax
    revenues
    + you may contribute in some other way to society through your vocation or avocation
    >> you should be entitled to comprehensive healthcare services

    – from age 61 to death you are in the righthand tail of the curve
    + you are past your prime earning years and ability to contribute to society
    + if you haven’t already done so, you soon will become a net draw on the treasury through
    transfer payments
    + treating you for serious illness become probabilistically more likely given the correlation of
    many major disease and cancers with age
    + treating your illness may be long-term and exceedingly expensive, with no expectation of
    recovering any of the costs from your future activities (e.g. tax payments)
    >> medical care for you should be restricted to palliative care only
    >> suicide counseling should be regularly given to make sure you know your options

    The argument that this is unfair and age discriminatory – especially for the elderly. His retort was something along the lines that you were 25 once upon a time and the government guaranteed your medical care, now it simply someone else’s turn to benefit.

    Really have to commend the parents of Zeke and his brother Rahm on how they raised their kids.

    in_awe (7c859a)

  43. We should do all we can to accelerate his date with destiny.
    Zeke is definitely proof that going back in time and altering the future is a desirable activity.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  44. Verdi rocks, man! Thanks for that, Pat!

    felipe (40f0f0)

  45. if you can still make a cobbler I got your back

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  46. Shoe, you do, mr feets !

    Alastor (e7cb73)

  47. She points out that the time when she could have resigned ands allowed Obama to name a successor has passed.

    No, she points out the time when Obama could appoint a similar moonbat has passed. And that’s not quite true: the GOP doesn’t have the Senate yet and they’re already squandering their chickens before they hatch. The Roberts thing is truly embarrassing. I loved it when he went to Dole for support, as if Robert’s doddering image would be improved that way. He should have dropped out in the primary.

    Kevin M (b357ee)

  48. hah I mean like peach or blueberry

    especially blueberry

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  49. and what’s up with Sarah Palin’s obscene fealty to doddering useless geezers?

    it’s creepy

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  50. feets. it’s something called Party Loyalty:
    She has it, many of her compatriots don’t – if the way they treated her is any indication.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  51. i’m confuzzled

    how does this make her a good person?

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  52. Ageezerwhovoteswithus 70% of the time, is better than a geezer who votes against us 80%.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  53. 52-
    If you don’t understand by now, I can’t help you.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  54. They need more death taxes to help fund Obamacare.

    ras (be1e0d)

  55. To be a republican you must accept amnesty.
    #s@…

    mg (31009b)

  56. I remember watching the 1970s movie Logan’s Run, about a Sandman getting his plastic jewel in his hand turned from a fake diamond to a fake ruby so he could be accepted by people who have secret ankhs. 35 gets you dead, and nobody raises their own children. That’s the government’s job. Futuristic post-apocalyptic fantasy becomes real life in too many ways, just like 1984.

    John Hitchcock (47673c)

  57. yes, it’s like 70’s scifi is their guide book

    narciso (ee1f88)

  58. Speaking of taxes funding ObamaCare, did you hear the recent news? The medical device tax has unexpectedly brought in fewer dollars than budgeted, dollars that were supposed to help make ObamaCare cost-neutral.

    I wonder what that racist tanning-bed tax is bringing in. Or have fewer whites gone tanning since their costs went up due to the federal tax?

    John Hitchcock (47673c)

  59. The tanning bed tax is very racist and sexist. It is aimed at a consumer base that is at least 80 percent white female when white females make up less than 35 percent of the population.

    John Hitchcock (47673c)

  60. Sammy (mis)quoted me as saying:

    The story is a few days old, but I just ran across something

    and then said:

    Just ran across it?

    This was already mentioned here on (Thursday) 9/18/2014 @ 9:12 pm PDT in comment #6 by Ag80 in the http://patterico.com/2014/09/18/justice-served-excuses-made thread:

    No, Sammy. Use your eyes, engage your brain, and read what I wrote — slowly, if you have to; out loud if necessary. Then read it again. This time, read everything I wrote:

    The story is a few days old, but I just ran across something that seemed apropos to the story.

    So I wasn’t saying I just ran across Emanuel’s piece. Sammy.

    I was saying I ran across SOMETHING ELSE that seemed apropos.

    Sammy.

    And that thing was the Grandma Ross piece.

    Got it?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  61. This is how or whatev the bastards work. Emanuel pretends he’s not offering an official statistic, or giving advice,er. Of course not. Doesn’t everybody who claims not to be trying to tell people what to do, who just made a personal choice that feels right for them, but supports your right to seek the best health care so that you can live as long as you want, write lengthy articles for The Atlantic? In which they make sweeping generalities about all old people.

    After, oh by the way, being one of the chief architects of a system that will deprive you of your right to make your own decisions about your own health care? But instead an unelected, unaccountable panel of people who agree with the guy who thinks living to age 75 is long enough will be making those decisions for you?

    Of course, our children won’t admit it. They love us and fear the loss that will be created by our death. And a loss it will be. A huge loss. They don’t want to confront our mortality, and they certainly don’t want to wish for our death. But even if we manage not to become burdens to them, our shadowing them until their old age is also a loss. And leaving them—and our grandchildren—with memories framed not by our vivacity but by our frailty is the ultimate tragedy.

    Funny. For a guy who claims to be speaking just for himself, he sure uses “we” and “our” a lot. Why, it’s almost like he’s not speaking just for himself!

    Just remember that in the European systems Emanuel and the other architects of Obamacare so openly admire the idea that old age just isn’t worth living first gets floated as just an idea, then gets pushed in end-of-life counseling (that’s included in Obamacare, but I’m sure it’s just a coinky dink), then they pass right to die legislation, which quickly gets transformed into the duty-to-die, you old selfish geezer, you’re taking up a hospital bed.

    Or, as Obama put it, sometimes you’re better taking the pain killer instead of having the heart surgery. Such as when you’re an old, useless mouth.

    We wouldn’t want the frogs to jump out of the pot before we turn the burner up to full boil, would we.

    We should do all we can to accelerate his date with destiny.
    Zeke is definitely proof that going back in time and altering the future is a desirable activity.
    askeptic (efcf22) — 9/24/2014 @ 2:51 pm

    I’d pay good money to see a cage match between that scrawny Ezekiel Emmanuel and “frail” Sy Perliss. I don’t think Emanuel could ever have bench pressed 187 pounds.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5k7useHtHw

    91-Year-Old Sy Perlis Breaks Bench Press World Record

    I think I’ll let Sy know Emmanuel thinks he should have died years ago.

    Steve57 (da091a)

  62. You and your loved ones can all die at 75 for all I care.

    And if you’re of the left, by all means, please die even earlier. The sooner, the better.

    After all, as one example, Adolph Hitler was both a vegan and animal-rights supporter—hmm, he sure sounds like the epitome of a modern-day do-gooder liberal. So if wishing for (if not also triggering) an early demise upon your fellow human beings was good enough for him, it’s good enough for others who rationalize away or can’t recognize evil in others and themselves. Or all the people who are Nidal-Hasan-izing our nation.

    Mark (c160ec)

  63. Tanning Beds are for John Boehner wannabe’s – which probably explains the slowdown in sales.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  64. 63-
    A vegan, animal-rights activist, artist, and a Socialist Workers Party founder –
    he’d fit right in on most college campus’ today

    askeptic (efcf22)

  65. I know this is a bit off subject, but I really have a problem with “vegans.” I suppose they exist in theory, but has anyone ever seen one in nature?

    I know people who say they are vegans, but they exhibit physical appearances that say otherwise. Speaking of which, what is the point of denying nutrition for a healthy lifestyle other than politics?

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  66. I wonder if EE could persuade Dingle, Rangel, Pelosi and Reid that dying at 75 is appropriate.

    S Harms (ede879)

  67. Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/24/2014 @ 9:23 pm
    Every couple of weeks we get together with a few other families/singles from church for a pot luck. There are vegetarian and vegan dishes along with “regular” food. I’m not sure who the vegan is, but apparently there is at least one, and all of the “usual suspects” look like they could use some more peanut butter or something with more protein and fat in it. FWIW.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  68. Patterico’s comment at #61 is a day old, but I just ran across it. However, since I rarely read Sammy’s comments it seemed apropos of something else. Just what that might be I can’t say for sure, perhaps it’s nothing at all, or maybe it’s related to something I didn’t read somewhere.

    ropelight (df4b3f)

  69. Personally I can’t stand vegetarians. Especially vegans. Because most of them are in-your-face types who believe their diet makes them morally superior. And like all inhabitants of the lofty Himalayan plateau that is the moral high ground they have divine dispensation to be nasty pieces of work.

    See Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and his totalitarian impulse to imprison anyone who disagrees with the global warming science groupthink. The ideology is, of course, settled and to refuse to comply is treason or heresy or something.

    Then there’s this.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18574603/#.VCQm7BVaBzg

    ATLANTA — A vegan couple were sentenced Wednesday to life in prison for the death of their malnourished 6-week-old baby boy, who was fed a diet largely consisting of soy milk and apple juice.

    I know, I know. Veganism, I’m told, is like communism. The fact that people die as a result doesn’t prove the ideology wrong. It’s just that the people in charge weren’t doing it correctly. Put the right people in charge and it will work.

    And vegans/communists are willing to bet lots of other people’s lives to demonstrate the theory.

    Steve57 (da091a)

  70. Just so everyone is clear on what Emanuel is up to with his article, I’d like to bring this book co-authored by another Obama handler, Cass Sunstein, to your attention.

    http://www.amazon.com/Nudge-Improving-Decisions-Health-Happiness/dp/0300122233

    Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness

    Every day, we make decisions on topics ranging from personal investments to schools for our children to the meals we eat to the causes we champion. Unfortunately, we often choose poorly. The reason, the authors explain in this important exploration of choice architecture, is that, being human, we all are susceptible to various biases that can lead us to blunder. Our mistakes make us poorer and less healthy; we often make bad decisions involving education, personal finance, health care, mortgages and credit cards, the family, and even the planet itself.

    Thaler and Sunstein invite us to enter an alternative world, one that takes our humanness as a given. They show that by knowing how people think, we can design choice environments that make it easier for people to choose what is best for themselves, their families, and their society. Using colorful examples from the most important aspects of life, Thaler and Sunstein demonstrate how thoughtful “choice architecture” can be established to nudge us in beneficial directions without restricting freedom of choice. Nudge offers a unique new take—from neither the left nor the right—on many hot-button issues, for individuals and governments alike. This is one of the most engaging and provocative books to come along in many years.

    It’s amusing how leftists insist that when government pushes us in the direction that authoritarians like Emanuel or Sunstein or Robert F. Kennedy Jr. insist is for our own good (from putting the “healthy” school lunch choices in convenient locations and the unhealthy choices in hard to access locations all the way up the continuum of force to imprisoning the non-compliant) they insist that’s non-partisan. That it transcends the left/right split.

    As if “compassionate,” “big government conservatives” are in any way conservatives as opposed to a different stripe of totalitarian leftist.

    Steve57 (da091a)

  71. Having turned 75 this year, my response to Emmanuel is a concise “Swive thee, Varlet.”

    Bar Sinister (b48c12)

  72. Hey, Bar Sinister. Many happy more years. But I have a question. I’m 58. At what age can we openly ogle women?

    nk (dbc370)

  73. Lewis’ “The Abolition of Man” should be required reading to expose the problem with Sunstein and his kind.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  74. If nationalized health-care inevitably leads to rationing, which inevitably leads to old people being encouraged to die, why do we have a lower life expectancy than many countries that have nationalized health care? Why aren’t they killing their old people?

    Jonny Scrum-half (cb8297)

  75. Most of the Euros don’t include infant mortality; still born, crib death, that sort of thing, while America chalks infant deaths up and includes them in the life expectancy averages.

    That’s why. Apples and oranges.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  76. And they are killing their old people, at least in the Netherlands, where what was once permissible is now too often done without request. I saw an article where one doctor who had been in favor of euthanasia has loudly said he made a mistake.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  77. papertiger (c2d6da) — 9/25/2014 @ 4:19 pm

    I can’t help but think that is behind some of the “the US is falling behind the rest of the world in education”, that maybe they’re comparing our cross section of high school students to students in other countries that have been sorted out to go onto advanced schooling.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  78. MD in Philly, I never, ever believe statistics unless I’m fully informed as to the method used in compiling the numbers. Things like “more Americans are killed with guns than any other country”. That’s because we own more guns. The same can be said of cars and swimming pools because we own more of those too.

    They sold Obamacare based on faulty, incomplete or just fabricated medical statistics from other countries. Every time leftists want to introduce another of their freedom reducing schemes they start spewing “statistics” about this or that nation “proving” they are much better than we. Yet for some strange reason we’re the one with an immigration problem. Imagine that! As bad and lousy as America is when the leftist compare it to other countries still people risk their lives to get here. Go figure.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  79. MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/25/2014 @ 4:33 pm

    Remember back when Chirac was blocking the invasion of Iraq?
    During that era I spent my idle time insulting the French. That’s when I learned about the Euro’s not counting baby deaths.

    EU eugenics being applied to the elderly is new for me.
    Feel free to expand on the topic. And I’ll read it, even if nobody else does.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  80. papertiger, if I have a chance tomorrow I’ll try to find it. I’m not saying there are huge numbers, but at least one prominent person who had been for it has been shocked at what has actually transpired
    yes, indeed, Hoagie
    lies
    damned lies
    statistics
    and deliberate omission (my addition)

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  81. papertiger, in case doc is busy here are a few articles from National Review on the deplorable state of euthanasia in the Netherlands.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/human-exceptionalism/322617/dutch-reporters-miss-stories-do-not-euthanize-me-cards

    Dutch Reporters Miss Stories on “Do Not Euthanize Me” Cards

    …They don’t claim I am wrong that about 1% of Dutch deaths are “termination without request or consent,” e.g. non voluntary euthanasia*. They don’t deny that Dutch doctors commit infanticide. They don’t deny that the country is moving toward euthanizing the elderly who are “tired of life.” No, they contest that some people carry cards in their wallets saying that they don’t want to be euthanized if they become incompetent or are brought to a hospital in an emergency. But they do. Here are some examples. From the BBC:

    As the habit of killing catches on, the voluntary element is lost. Patients in Holland are having to carry cards saying: “Please, doctor, DON’T kill me.”

    From Psychology Today:

    Back in the Netherlands, there are some old people who carry cards that say, “Please, Doctor, DON’T Kill Me!”

    Dr. Herbert Hendin, an expert on Dutch euthanasia in Issues in Law and Medicine:

    …a Protestant group also opposed to euthanasia, they distribute a “passport for life” that patients carry, indicating that in medical emergencies they do not want their lives terminated without their consent.

    *This is simply a euphemism for murder. And frankly Dutch doctors know they can get away with it, so they commit murder when the situation fits the prism through which they’ve been indoctrinated to view the value of life and the “greater good.” I recall reading somewhere that if the same percentage of the US population were killed by their doctors “without request or consent” we’d be looking at 75,000 medical murders a year. Elderly people in Holland often simply refuse to go to the hospital because they are justifiably convinced the odds of leaving alive are too slim. Some doctor will simply decide that some oldster’s life is no longer worth living (coming to an Obamacare facility near you courtesy of Ezekiel Emanuel). They’ve formed patients rights groups and, yes, instead of DNR instructions they carry “Do Not Kill Me” cards. Fat lot of good that will do them. When government pays for your health care, sooner rather than later they get tired of people who need health care services the most.

    Government health care is for the young and healthy.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/human-exceptionalism/386435/dutch-euthanasia-nursing-home-living-wesley-j-smith

    Dutch Euthanasia for Nursing Home Living

    Dutch euthanasia gets ever more extreme.

    How extreme is it, Wesley? I’m glad you asked. It is so extreme that a euthanasia clinic has opened to kill people whose own doctors refuse.

    And now the euthanasia Life Clinic (!!!) killed a woman because she didn’t want to live in a nursing home…

    http://www.nationalreview.com/human-exceptionalism/360668/euthanasia-blind-netherlands-wesley-j-smith

    Euthanasia of the Blind in the Netherlands!

    It gets worse and worse–and yet the stories still repeat the mantra that euthanasia is implemented under “strict guidelines.”

    A Netherlanders woman lost her vision and was killed on request by her doctor.

    …Then comes the mandatory “strict guidelines” canard

    …Strict conditions?! Mentally ill people are euthanized. Disabled people are euthanized. Infants are killed in their cribs based on an “unlivable life.” Etc. beyond etc…

    One way to put the “strict guidelines” into perspective is to consider the “life and health of the mother” exceptions that states make when banning late term abortions. And then abortionists will sign off on anything and everything in order to claim the mother’s “health” was at risk. They include anything that would effect the mental and emotional “health” of the mother, such as being unable to wear a bikini on a long-planned vacation due to an unplanned pregnancy. Clearly, the woman would be scarred for life if the developing infant ruined her beach body and rendered her unable to enjoy the pictures and videos she was planning to take of herself.

    Yeah. Dutch euthanasia laws are just about that strict, too. And I can’t help but conclude that the fiction that a fetus isn’t a human being that justifies abortion on demand hasn’t led people to see the elderly or infirm as non-humans, another form of dependent burden, as well.

    Other European countries aren’t too far off the pace the Dutch are setting. Have you heard of Britain’s “Liverpool Care Pathway?”

    It sounds so innocuous. It’s another euphemism like “involunary euthanasia” for medical murder.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-23698071

    One patient under the LCP was 90-year-old Kathleen Vine. Four months after doctors at a hospital in the south-east of England used it to care for her, she is back at home and in good spirits.

    Her granddaughters, Helen Bishop and Alison English, say the LCP was used as a justification for sedating Mrs Vine and denying her food and water.

    “Nan didn’t want to die, it wouldn’t even have been euthanasia. So, as far as we’re concerned, it would have felt to us as if our Nan would have been starved to death and killed,” Alison said.

    Mrs Vine was taken to hospital with a dislocated shoulder, and a few days after being admitted she developed pneumonia.

    “All I remember is they weren’t feeding me. Up above my bed they put ‘nil by mouth’ and I was begging for food,” she recalled.

    She said that when she asked doctors and nurses for food, she was ignored.

    “I was being left to die. If it hadn’t have been for my family I would be dead now. I would just have been another statistic on the books.”

    Her family were told she had 48 hours to live but when her granddaughters visited her in hospital they said she did not look like someone who was dying.

    “Nanny was sitting up in bed and she was saying, “I’m really hungry, I’m really thirsty,” said Helen.

    “We were ushered into an office with five medical staff and told about the LCP and that Nan was very elderly and her system was shutting down and there was not a lot they could do. So they would withdraw the food and meds and let her go peacefully.

    “We said, ‘but she’s got a dislocated shoulder, how can this happen?’ And they were saying, ‘she is very old’ and we had five people staring at us and it was very intimidating,” Helen said.

    The sisters said they were never told the reason that Mrs Vine was supposed to be dying.

    “I spoke to the nurse and said I need to know what she’s dying of. I have a science background and I need to see evidence. Show me some stats now to explain why you’ve given up on her,” said Helen.

    “She was pleading for water. The nurse said ‘I’ve been told I can’t give her anything.'”

    The recent independent review for England, ‘More Care Less Pathway’, found that the LCP was regularly used as a justification for withholding food and water.

    But John Ellershaw, a professor of palliative medicine who led the team that developed the LCP, told BBC Radio 4 that should not be happening.

    “Nowhere does the Liverpool Care Pathway say you must withdraw hydration or you must withdraw food. What it says is you should be encouraging patients to take food as appropriate and oral hydration as appropriate.

    “If the patient is unable to take oral hydration then you should consider whether artificial fluids are appropriate.”

    “I think if healthcare professionals are telling relatives or patients that they can’t have hydration because the LCP says they can’t, then they’re not reading the guidance or interpreting it correctly,” he said…

    Ah, but you see the “healthcare professionals” were reading the guidance and interpreting it correctly. The NIS had financial incentives in place for hospitals and doctors who freed up beds by using the Liverpool Care Pathway in exactly the way they attempted to use it on 90y.o. Mrs. Vine. Who was placed on this particular “care pathway” because she was old and had a dislocated shoulder and … she was old.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jul/15/liverpool-care-pathway-what-went-wrong

    Is it true that incentives were paid to put people in the pathway?

    Hospitals were offered financial incentives to use the LCP, as a way of encouraging them to treat dying patients in accordance with best practice. But this has been interpreted by some families, distressed at the treatment or neglect their relative suffered, as a bonus for dispatching frail and elderly patients more quickly.

    Of course, the families that interpreted the zeal with which NIS facilities put people on the LCP were correct. Bureaucrats respond to financial incentives for offing people equally as well at the NIS as they do at the VA.

    It is typical of the administrators who put policies in place just so they’d be eligible for fat bonuses to blame those lower down the chain for “misinterpreting” the guidance. No, nobody misinterpreted the guidance. The signal came through loud and clear.

    The LCP is being phased out (if it isn’t already) because it’s existence and promiscuous use embarrassed the powers that be. Nothing more.

    Steve57 (da091a)

  82. MD in Philly @81, I just provided links to a number of articles about euthanasia in the Netherlands and the “Liverpool Care Pathway” in the UK. Unfortunately, even though I didn’t quote extensively from any one article, it’s link heavy and I quoted from a number of them. So it’s stuck in moderation.

    Steve57 (da091a)

  83. Thanks for letting me know, Steve57, I will put off until later today looking up what I was thinking of, in case you have already done it for me.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  84. He wants to die at 75?

    Why wait?

    If he were to bow out gracefully now, the nation and world would be spared more of the liberal idiocy he seems hell-bent on vomiting at us.

    arik (02de93)

  85. “Stabat mater” doesn’t mean “the mother stood” it means “the mother was standing”. It’s the present imperfect tense (at least I think that’s what you call it), implying continuous action.* English is confusing b/c “the mother stood” can be taken to be an imperfect tense, but it can also be taken to be a perfect tense.

    Just sayin’. —SEE how confusing that is?! I’m not “saying” as in continuous, I just “said” and will say no more, and yet that’s how it comes out in English. No wonder nobody can speak this damn language.

    * — the phrase comes from a hymn, and the mother in question is the Virgin Mary, and the idea is she was standing at the foot of the Cross — keeping a vigil, as it were, which is a continuous action. It doesn’t mean “the mother stood up”.

    grumpy the grump (79ea01)

  86. Thanks, grumpy the grump. Some of us already knew that. Speaking only for myself, I didn’t think it important to point it out. I understood where out host was coming from and appreciated his love for his mother. Those that didn’t know (and were too lazy to google it) about “stabat mater” can thank you for the edification provided.

    felipe (40f0f0)

  87. @ # 82 & 87

    If someone has a problem, if the odds are stacked against them, if they have nowhere else to turn, then you call the Equalizer

    except no Hollywood producer has the balls to actually use a fictional hitman to right real world wrongs, or act for people who really have the odds stacked against them.
    Instead they’ll pretend teenaged girls need protecting from Russian bad guys, as if every militarized division of government isn’t already geared to do that.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  88. In my book, if there are roving teams of murderers killing old folks, we have a right and a civic duty to kill them back.

    papertiger (c2d6da)


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