Patterico's Pontifications

3/5/2013

Dow at All Time High

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:32 am



Before the crash, there will be a brief recovery. Everyone will talk about how the handwringing over the debt is overblown.

That’s when you move some stocks into gold.

I think the faux recovery part is just getting started. But who knows for sure?

133 Responses to “Dow at All Time High”

  1. Inflation, soon to be hyper.

    But it’s all Bush’s fault.

    Fred Z (80a49d)

  2. I know for sure! We’ll see a new high, then a brief leveling, and then a significant drop. The Fed is still buying up mortgage-based securities, and the major builders are starting to self-finance mortgages to people with lower credit ratings and smaller down payments, with the complicity of the federal government.

    We have seen this before, and it didn’t end well.

    The economist Dana (3e4784)

  3. QE42 should keep the stock market stable.

    JD (4f721c)

  4. Any downturn in the economy will be blamed on sequestration. And any weird tattoos or body piercings that Kim Jong Un gets will be blamed on Dennis Rodman.

    Elephant Stone (f2d669)

  5. I need to check but I think this is longest time for Dow 30 to regain a high after collapse since Great Depression.

    SPQR (1c67c7)

  6. this isn’t a recovery this is asset inflation driven by whorenanke’s obscene dollar printing

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  7. can’t wait for that trickle down … aint’t gonna happen.

    Dad (b17026)

  8. Jeez. Who is this fellow? I don’t even trust clicking on links from that source, given what JD and Patterico have written.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  9. fascism isn’t designed to trickle down silly it’s designed to make you bow down

    and lick it

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  10. Dad – we get it. You are jealous of the successful, hate them, and want equality of outcome. Now, quit spamming your collectivist BS.

    JD (4f721c)

  11. Dad sounds like he’s at an all-time “high,” too.
    He must be smoking living in Colorado.

    Elephant Stone (f2d669)

  12. this isn’t a recovery this is asset inflation driven by… dollar printing

    I’d add the absence of other worthwhile investment opportunities. Businesses aren’t hiring, nor are they increasing their capital expenditures. Individuals (with money) aren’t dramatically increasing their consumption. Interest rates are so low that you lose ground putting money into interest bearing accounts. There’s nowhere else but the stock market to put one’s money.

    Furthermore, just as was the case in 2007, there’s a disconnect between the stock market and the economy as a whole. One going up doesn’t mean all is well with the other.

    steve (369bc6)

  13. and the AARP doesn’t make a peep about how whorenanke is raping retired old people Mr. steve

    in fascism all the gears turn together you see

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  14. This attitude is typical of right wing extremists who for over four years have been attempting to take this country down in order to get at Barack Obama. The thing is, they have admitted it openly, starting with Mitch O’Connell 01/2009. And these people have the audacity to call themselves patriots!

    Perry (329aa5)

  15. I agree, it’s time to move. But how do you buy gold and be sure you are really owning it? Precious metals mutual fund?

    Patricia (be0117)

  16. Next trigger point is probably the debt limit shutdown coming up.

    luagha (112c30)

  17. Happyfeet, I’m making a big .75% on my IRA CD! But it’s okay, because a Democrat is president.

    Patricia (be0117)

  18. Perry – Explain to us the effect of QE1, QE2, QE3, etc … on the stock market.

    JD (b63a52)

  19. There don’t seem to be any reliable indicators of the health of the economy anymore.
    The DOW is ephemeral, the UE #’s are a joke, the Consumer Index is rigged by not including food and gasoline
    (any comments from the Peanut-Gallery as to why, in a world-wide sluggish economy, the price of gasoline has more than doubled on the watch of the Lightworker?),
    and the GDP #’s seem to be generated by a throwing darts at a dartboard.

    The good thing is that we won’t have any of those disgusting/disturbing views of people selling pencils and apples on the street from card-tables –
    the Regulatory Nazis will find some rule you’re breaking or that you aren’t properly licensed, and close you down (just like they do to your kid’s lemonade stand).

    Remember, “Bastille Day” is coming – and I’m not talking about the 14th of July!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  20. @Patricia (be0117) — 3/5/2013 @ 8:51 am

    Cash taken to local coin and precious metals dealers is what I recommend.

    CC (a6e370)

  21. Perry wrote:

    This attitude is typical of right wing extremists who for over four years have been attempting to take this country down in order to get at Barack Obama. The thing is, they have admitted it openly, starting with Mitch O’Connell 01/2009. And these people have the audacity to call themselves patriots!

    Our esteemed host’s comment, and the theme of this thread, was economics; do you have an anything to add that’s actually on the subject?

    The curious Dana (3e4784)

  22. Precious Perry the Regurgitard thinks half the country consists of right wing extremists.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  23. Dana – Perry is bridging gaps.

    JD (b63a52)

  24. right wing extremists who for over four years have been attempting to take this country down

    That is just cute beyond words

    JD (b63a52)

  25. “Our esteemed host’s comment, and the theme of this thread, was economics; do you have an anything to add that’s actually on the subject?”

    Dana – Perry has already proved himself an economic illiterate. This is the best he’s got.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  26. Economic illiterate is grossly unfair. He would have to learn quite a bit to even get to that level. He just spits out OfA and thinkregress talking points. He is a human bot.

    JD (b63a52)

  27. It’s clearly ‘Aristotle was Belgian, and ‘the London Underground is a political movement’ territory.

    narciso (3fec35)

  28. Perry,

    We “right wing extremists” want more people dependent upon government programs such as welfare, food stamps, and universal nursery school. We all want higher gasoline prices, higher food prices, and we want Standard & Poor’s to downgrade our nation’s credit rating. And we want to see the national debt approach nearly 18 trillion by the end of 2013.

    We also want a lazy President who flies to Florida for $1,000 per hour golf lessons, during the same week he’s hyperventillating about how meat inspectors, air traffic controllers, or the janitors at the Capitol Building will be unemployed within a couple of weeks if Congress doesn’t spend more time trying to fix stuff. Or something.

    We also want a First Lady who lectures everyone about how often to walk their dog.

    I’d say that so far, we’ve gotten everything we wanted !
    …how about you ?

    Elephant Stone (f2d669)

  29. Which right wing extremists? – none got elected to washington….

    now on the left……

    EPWJ (1ea63e)

  30. if you do not have physical possession of your gold, you do NOT own any gold.

    that being said, consider investing in the other precious metals, such as brass, copper & lead, with some diversification into classical w*rks of art by John Garand, John Browning, Eugene Stoner, etc…

    they will appreciate greatly once Perry & Dad and all their ilk are roaming the streets looking for free stuff.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  31. “left wing extremist” is redundant.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  32. Perry, you just make up crap. If you really believe the nonsense you write, you really should get help.

    SPQR (768505)

  33. How’s it feel to be on the wrong side of history. Nevermind, most of you are too old to find out

    Dad (b17026)

  34. Even if we evil reich-wing extremists have “for over four years have been attempting to take this country down in order to get at Barack Obama,” we wouldn’t have had to do much; President Obama has done quite well on that score all by himself.

    We evil reich-wing extremists didn’t pass the utter ruination of our health insurance system; President Obama and the Democrats did that without any help from us. We evil reich-wing extremists didn’t pass the wholly wasteful 2009 stimulus act, urinating away $831 billion and getting nothing to show for it; President Obama and the Democrats forced that one through. We evil reich-wing extremists didn’t run up a $1.4 trillion deficit in FY2009; the Democrats and President Obama did that . . . and then claimed that they were deficit cutters when deficits came down to just (hah!) $1.1 trillion!

    Senator Barack Hussein Obama (D-IL) told us that it was “irresponsible” and “unpatriotic” for the national debt to have risen over $4 trillion during President Bush’s eight years in office; the national debt has risen slightly over $6 trillion in just 4 years, 1 month and 9 days under President Obama. I suppose that, to Democrats, that is thoughtful and responsible and regrettably necessary.

    The evil reich-wing Dana (3e4784)

  35. Dad, you don’t have a clue what “history” even is. Your comments have shown an utter cluelessness about basic facts of recent history.

    SPQR (768505)

  36. Of course the whole idea that – after spending the Bush terms telling us that approx $500 billion deficits were destroying our country – trying to halt $1.2 trillion deficits is destroying our country …

    well, its shows the basic bad faith of Democrats rather starkly.

    SPQR (768505)

  37. the last time the DOW was here
    interesting, and scarey, historical perspective, for those who do not wish to be blindsided by history.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  38. From Zerohedge

    * Dow Jones Industrial Average: Then 14164.5; Now 14164.5
    * Regular Gas Price: Then $2.75; Now $3.73
    * GDP Growth: Then +2.5%; Now +1.6%
    * Americans Unemployed (in Labor Force): Then 6.7 million; Now 13.2 million
    * Americans On Food Stamps: Then 26.9 million; Now 47.69 million
    * Size of Fed’s Balance Sheet: Then $0.89 trillion; Now $3.01 trillion
    * US Debt as a Percentage of GDP: Then ~38%; Now 74.2%
    * US Deficit (LTM): Then $97 billion; Now $975.6 billion
    * Total US Debt Oustanding: Then $9.008 trillion; Now $16.43 trillion
    * US Household Debt: Then $13.5 trillion; Now 12.87 trillion
    * Labor Force Particpation Rate: Then 65.8%; Now 63.6%
    * Consumer Confidence: Then 99.5; Now 69.6
    * S&P Rating of the US: Then AAA; Now AA+
    * VIX: Then 17.5%; Now 14%
    * 10 Year Treasury Yield: Then 4.64%; Now 1.89%
    * EURUSD: Then 1.4145; Now 1.3050
    * Gold: Then $748; Now $1583
    * NYSE Average LTM Volume (per day): Then 1.3 billion shares; Now 545 million shares

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  39. “How’s it feel to be on the wrong side of history.”

    Dad – Wrong side of what history? The worst economic recovery since the Great Depression because of Obamanomics?

    I’ve thought about it, and I’m pretty Okay. I wonder how folks like you can sleep at night, though.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  40. red beat me to it

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  41. “Dad” – thank you for finally stopping your spamming of your inane collectivist link. Much appreciated.

    JD (b63a52)

  42. Dad sees that the number of people on food stamps has jumped to an all time high, he sees the national debt catapulting to an all time high, and he sees Obama talking about not even having enough money to pay the meat inspectors at the FDA, then Dad says to himself, “America’s never been like this before—we’re making history !”

    Elephant Stone (f2d669)

  43. JD wrote:

    Perry – Explain to us the effect of QE1, QE2, QE3, etc … on the stock market.

    Well, I doubt that Queen Elizabeth I had anything do do with it, given that she died in 1603. Queen Elizabeth II just got out of the hospital, and I can’t see how Her Majesty had much of an impact. As for Queen Elizabeth III, well, she hasn’t happened yet, so I can’t explain her impact on stocks.

    The Dana sock-puppeting Perry (3e4784)

  44. After the BARACKOLYPSE NOW, the SEQUESTER!! How can the upcoming debt limit crisis be a problem?
    We’ve already fired all the cops, soldiers, teachers and gubmint gooooonion workers. What else is there?

    Gus (694db4)

  45. The real reason the DOW and stocks are up is that there is no place to put your money safely.

    Bonds? No interest and prices will crater if rates go up.

    Savings accounts? 0.75% is a REALLY GOOD rate right now. And doesn’t meet inflation.

    Gold? Maybe. Bit of a crap shoot, but maybe.

    Houses? This would be my choice: quality housing in good locations within an middle- or upper-middle-class budget. Preferably small houses on big lots. Rent out now, then sell as tear-downs later. But you already need millions to get in, or a lot of income, and there is a risk.

    Stocks? It’s what everyone does, but be sure to sell before everyone does.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  46. Kevin M., an excellant summation of the devastation that Democrat policies have wrought upon the nation’s financial status.

    SPQR (768505)

  47. Perry keeps proving the saying true: there is no fool like an old fool.

    Naturally he won’t take this sound advice.

    “It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.”

    — Murray Rothbard

    Actually our dear leader should take that advice as well. I’m reminded of the time the CEOs of companies like Caterpillar, AT&T, etc., warned him that ObamaCare as written would force them to declare huge losses. He told them they were lying.

    They weren’t. It was one of the first embarrassing,Pelosi “we’ll have to pass it to find out what’s in it” with many more later and many more still to come.

    We have a man in the WH who obviously doesn’t even know what the effect of government regulation has on business. Who proudly states he doesn’t understand middle school math. And he thinks he’s the one to command and control the economy.

    And the old fool blames the right wing for economic messes.

    Steve57 (60a887)

  48. A guy goes into a bar in Cleveland where there’s a robot bartender…

    The robot says, “What will you have”? The guy replies, ” I’ll have a whisky”.

    The robot brings back his whisky and says to the man, ” what is your IQ”?
    The guy.says, “168”. The robot proceeds to talk about physics, space exploration and medical technology.

    The guy leaves but he is curious- so he goes back into the bar. The robot bartender asks,” what will you have”?
    The man says “I will have a whisky”.

    The robot returns with the drink and asks , “what is your IQ”? The guy replies “100”. The robot starts talking about NASCAR, Budweiser, the Browns, and OSU Buckeyes.

    The man.leaves and once again curious, he returns to the bar. The robot says “What will you have”? The man.says I will have a whisky. The robot returns and asks, what is your IQ? The man replies “Uhhh….50″.

    The robot leans in real close and says….”Soooo ….you people still happy with Obama?”

    The Dana who stole someone else's joke (3e4784)

  49. How’s it feel to be on the wrong side of history. Nevermind, most of you are too old to find out
    Comment by Dad (b17026) — 3/5/2013 @ 9:47 am

    — Yet another iteration of “You lost, get over it” from the dad-hom troll.

    Icy (a94363)

  50. can’t wait for that trickle down … aint’t gonna happen.
    Comment by Dad (b17026) — 3/5/2013 @ 8:06 am

    — Ya know, they have the medicines these days that will facilitate your flow and strengthen your stream.

    Icy (a94363)

  51. Obama is getting his ass kicked in DC and he’s starting to figure it out. His legislative agenda is already DOA. He is losing the argument on spending cuts.

    All Obama has left are temper tantrums.

    SPQR (768505)

  52. Senātus Populusque Rōmānus wrote:

    He (President Obama) is losing the argument on spending cuts.

    Apparently not. Nor here.

    The Dana who notices these things (3e4784)

  53. 40. daleyrocks

    Dad – Wrong side of what history? The worst economic recovery since the Great Depression because of Obamanomics?

    You cannot possibly be taken seriously with a whopper like that!

    Perry (329aa5)

  54. Comment by Perry (329aa5) — 3/5/2013 @ 8:45 am
    This attitude is typical of right wing extremists who for over four years have been attempting to take this country down in order to get at Barack Obama.
    — And you know that, one way or another, we’re gonna get ‘im get ‘im get ‘im get ‘im.

    The thing is, they have admitted it openly, starting with Mitch O’Connell 01/2009. And these people have the audacity to call themselves patriots!
    — As the only man to have successfully drank Mitch O’Connell under the table, I can authoritatively say that you don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to his views. And the same goes for John Baywatch and Paul Rhineland and Eric Canton.

    Icy (a94363)

  55. Perry defending Dad:
    “He couldn’t possibly be that stupid.”
    “Yes he could!”

    Icy (a94363)

  56. Icy, didn’t you say that after you left that party where you drank with O’Connell, Baywatch, Rhineland, and Canton, that you went to eat a Big Mac, fries, and shake, at McConnell’s ?

    Elephant Stone (f2d669)

  57. Perry, you are utterly ignorant of current economic reality, you’ve no place to be challenging anyone’s “seriousness”.

    SPQR (768505)

  58. Dana who notice things, those are illustrative of the fact that Obama’s basic fraud is being exposed. Obama has lost the argument that the sequester is some disaster of GOP making. Even SNL was laughing at him this weekend.

    SPQR (768505)

  59. Insider trades 50 to 1 sell orders. So who’s buying? EU banks, China, anyone who has dollars they want to pass.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  60. “You cannot possibly be taken seriously with a whopper like that!”

    Precious Perry the Regurgitard – Which economic recovery has been worse, moron?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  61. daleyrocks asks:

    Which economic recovery has been worse

    Have we had an economic recovery?

    The economy grew at a whopping 0.1%, on an annualized basis, in the last quarter of 2012, and that was an upward revision. Even the official unemployment rate is slightly higher now than when Barack Hussein Obama took office, and the only reason it’s even remotely close is because so many people have stopped looking for work. Gasoline is $2 a gallon higher, and the real inflation rate is masked by not including food and energy prices. Your health insurance rates are climbing, and pay rates have not kept up with prices.

    If this is a recovery, I’d hate to see a recession!

    The inquisitive Dana (3e4784)

  62. Take home pay is at 20 year low.

    mg (31009b)

  63. Stocks go up and down
    Li’l guy gets proper pranging
    this will end badly

    Colonel Haiku (5a053f)

  64. “You’ll be in for such a perrying!”

    – Group Captain Lionel Mandrake

    Colonel Haiku (5763a1)

  65. The Colonel didn’t haiku:

    “You’ll be in for such a perrying!”

    – Group Captain Lionel Mandrake

    [Ding!] We have a winner!

    The amused Dana (3e4784)

  66. 54.

    40. daleyrocks

    Dad – Wrong side of what history? The worst economic recovery since the Great Depression because of Obamanomics?

    You cannot possibly be taken seriously with a whopper like that!

    Comment by Perry (329aa5) — 3/5/2013 @ 11:04 am

    Again, no fool like an old fool:

    Quarterly Update: The U.S. Economic Recovery in Historical Context

    Release Date February 20, 2013

    The economic expansion following the 2008 recession has been the weakest of the post–World War II era and remains an outlier among postwar recoveries along several dimensions. House prices rose slightly from the second to the third quarter of 2012 but remain 8 percent lower than they were at the start of the recovery. Households continue to reduce debt. The federal budget deficit is much wider than during any other post–World War II economic recovery, but the Congressional Budget Office projects it will shrink to 5.3 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) if the sequester goes into effect at the beginning of March.

    No post-WWII has been worse than the Obama “recovery.” In other words, this is the worst since the last pre-WWII recovery; the Great Depression.

    Steve57 (60a887)

  67. 61. Precious Perry the Regurgitard – Which economic recovery has been worse, moron?

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 3/5/2013 @ 11:23 am

    Seriously; this guy’s in his 70s?

    Steve57 (60a887)

  68. In case you don’t want to go to the link, in 5 of 7 economic measures Obama’s “recovery” has taken top prize for putting in the worst performance since the end of WWII; real GDP, nominal housing prices, household deleveraging, industrial capacity, and federal deficit as a percentage of GDP.

    In the other two, nonfarm payrolls and industrial production, Obama is merely below average.

    Some whopper, huh?

    Steve57 (60a887)

  69. Worst recovery since WWII? Hardly surprising since it was the worst recession since WWII. They’re not all the same in terms of severity, you know.

    Kman (5576bf)

  70. Kman, the rate of recovery from a recession is not proportional to the recession’s severity. But go on demonstrating your ignorance as matching that of Perry et al.

    SPQR (768505)

  71. #70… Not true

    Colonel Haiku (ba3115)

  72. No, that’s just what the Obama apologists claim.

    Steve57 (60a887)

  73. #70: That’s debatable: bad recession in late ’08 made WORSE by very, very poor policies. Probably the worst since the Jimmy Carter days; not the FDR years. FDR only “rescued” by WWII.

    jb (1e0905)

  74. I don’t wonder why Succubus is trashing Amerikkka, what I wonder is how close this armed takeover is going to be to success.

    I mean does DHS really think the cities are the lifeblood and heart of the US? Can the hope to make a fighting force of the 47%?

    They do have a plan, don’t they?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  75. It’s Malaise vs Great Malaise…

    Colonel Haiku (1d82dc)

  76. Ramirez is just another racist white hispanic

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  77. “You cannot possibly be taken seriously with a whopper like that!”

    Perry hasn’t even seen my Whopper. Does he have spies?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  78. I like how the trolls are still relying on Magic, to make a sudden appearance to their good.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  79. Perry, you letchful old fella, why are you publicly commenting on daleyrocks’ whopper ?

    This is not “that kind” of website.
    Maybe you were thinking you’re at Andrew Sullivan’s blog.

    Elephant Stone (4c540b)

  80. Elephant Stone – It is kind of creepy of Perry.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  81. 74. #70: That’s debatable: bad recession in late ’08 made WORSE by very, very poor policies. Probably the worst since the Jimmy Carter days; not the FDR years. FDR only “rescued” by WWII.

    Comment by jb (1e0905) — 3/5/2013 @ 1:44 pm

    It’s not debatable; you’re spot on, jb.

    6 Pages of Obamacare Equals 429 Pages of Regulations

    Section 3022 of the law, which is about the Medicare shared savings program, take up just six pages in the 907-page Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. But HHS has turned that into 429 pages of new regulations and that’s too much, says Republican Wyoming Sen. John Barrasso, a practicing doctor.

    “Regulations increase the cost of doing business,” he says. He distributed a fact sheet on the book of regulations to fellow Republicans this week.

    Actually, they get one of their facts wrong. the ObamaCare law wasn’t 907 pages. It was 2,700 pages.

    As of May 2012 HHS had issued over 12,000 pages of regulations. Via Legal Insurrection I learn that HHS has issued 700 more pages of regulations. I know there have been thousands more pages in the meantime; the birth control mandate violating the 1st Amendment, for instance.

    We are now well over 2,000 pages of regulations into ObamaCare, possibly over 3,000, and HHS is not finished issued new regulations.

    And that’s just one set of regulations Obama is strangling businesses with. EPA? EEOC? NLRB?

    And know-nothing boneheads (cough, cough, Perry) believe the left-wing mantra that it’s the right wing that’s sabotaging Obama’s “recovery.”

    He doesn’t need the right wing’s help; he’s doing a fine job of beating his own “recovery” over the head with a shovel.

    For your reading enjoyment, also via that same Legal Insurrection post:

    Subway founder says regulations would prevent sandwich chain from being started today

    “I’ll tell ya, if I had started Subway today, Subway would not exist,” ” Deluca said on Wednesday. ”Because I had an easy time of it in the ’60s when I started, and I just see a continuing increase of regulations.”

    Deluca spoke on CNBC’s “Squawk on the Street” about the current state of the economy. He said the economic environment is unfriendly toward businesses and has undergone drastic changes since he founded Subway in 1965.

    Deluca talked about some specific factors influencing the economy, including Obama’s proposed minimum wage increase to $9. The Subway founder said he favors a gradual increase, but not an abrupt jump.

    “[The proposed increase] would cause franchises to increase prices,” he explained. “There’s no question about it. Wages directly translate to prices.”

    Deluca also addressed the great sense of uncertainty businesses face when confronted with Obamacare.

    “[Obamacare] is the biggest concern of our franchises,” he stated. “They don’t have enough information. They don’t know what they’re looking forward to. It’s causing a lot of concern. But that too will also pass through to the consumer.”

    I edited out the author of that article’s original thoughts on the subject. The airhead thinks that all this crap is merely going to result in the price of a $5.00 foot long sub rising to $7.00.

    Poor Cameron Young; he has no idea.

    Steve57 (60a887)

  82. Perry, Dad, K-mart and all the other scum bags will be in mourning for the next few days.

    Obumble’s hero & role model Hugo Chavez is deader than our SCOAMF’s economy.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  83. Economic illiteracy is confirmed by not realizing that historically, the steeper the drop into recession, the quicker the recovery.
    We seem to attract quite a few EI’s, but at least they have talking points to chuckle over.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  84. 62. The inquisitive Dana:

    If this is a recovery, I’d hate to see a recession!

    In spite of the Bush-caused recession, both the Dow and S&P reached an historic high today, overcoming the previous historic high in 2007.

    Thid tells me that both the business community and government policy must be doing some things right, in spite of the obfuscation and obstructions in Congress by Republicans who are more intent on defeating Obama and the Dems.

    Where would we be without the EESA, the ARRA, including the loans to American auto companies, the latter from which Mitt Romney himself profitted $15.3M?

    I fully understand that it is beyond Republican political ideology, including Dana, to give President Obama a little credit for helping to manage us through this Great Recession, but do try a little harder with a little bit of honesty and honor, please.

    PS: I’ll bet many of you, I too, have made good money in the stock market, all because you have made some astute investments in some grand American companies large and small alike. Congratulations for that! Are we now about to retreat because of the premature austerity which the TEA Party is hell-bent on throwing at us? Maybe it is time to get out of the market somewhat, especially for those who are unable to withstand another market dive.

    Perry (329aa5)

  85. Perry, Bush did not cause the recession. You keep making up stuff.

    The slowest recovery since the Great Depression is not a sign of policy being “right”.

    Obama did not “get us through” the recession, he made it last longer, by pursuing stupid failed policies like PPACA that have stymied business, and we are not clearly out of it.

    SPQR (768505)

  86. He sure do luv his talkin’ points.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  87. 86. A dollar spent by the Federal government now generates $0.42 in economic activity. Taking a dollar of malinvestment away from Green Shoots may be bad for unions and the DNC but its good for Amerikkka.

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/M2V?cid=32242

    There is no data behind your theory, no thought, no education, just fantasy.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  88. Perry also missed at least one other study that concluded that ARRA cost America about 250,000 jobs net.

    But given how much of it was spent on Democratic corruption, that wasn’t a surprise.

    SPQR (768505)

  89. Thid tells me that both the business community and government policy must be doing some things right, in spite of the obfuscation and obstructions in Congress by Republicans who are more intent on defeating Obama and the Dems.

    Step away from the crack pipe. Stock market prices today are a result of quantative easing, and inflation. You are too stupid to insult.

    JD (b63a52)

  90. but do try a little harder with a little bit of honesty and honor, please.

    You wouldn’t know either concept if they crawled out your weinerhole and slapped you in the face. Those concepts are punchlines to people like you.

    JD (b63a52)

  91. If you claim there is austerity coming, and blame it on the Tea Party, you are dummerer than we gave you credit for. Ad way more dishonest.

    JD (b63a52)

  92. 91. Snigger. We gets all kinds, thas fer sure.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  93. Perry is bridging gaps to nowhere

    JD (b63a52)

  94. There is one stock that I’ll give credit to Obama for its huge rise in profits and stock price.

    SPQR (768505)

  95. Just as you can’t jump out a basement window to your death so you can’t crash until you’ve gained altitude.

    Get out. Get out NOW.

    Jcw46 (f33482)

  96. Speaking of death by bath salt:

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/03/klan-sighting-at-oberlin-likely-just-woman-wrapped-in-a-blanket/

    Bet skipping class at Oberlin is worth $55K per year.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  97. JD, I see Perry can’t explain the effects of QE1 through QE-To-Infinity-And-Beyond on stock prices.

    This is revealing, no?

    In spite of the Bush-caused recession, both the Dow and S&P reached an historic high today, overcoming the previous historic high in 2007.

    I mean, we all know these “historic (sugar) highs” are great news, don’t we?

    Thid tells me that both the business community and government policy must be doing some things right, in spite of the obfuscation and obstructions in Congress by Republicans who are more intent on defeating Obama and the Dems.

    Oh yeah, it’s going swimmingly. GDP growth has dropped a percentage point since that last “historic (sugar) high,” not counting those who’ve dropped out the labor force entirely the number of unemployed has doubled, the number on food stamps has nearly doubled, US debt as a percentage of GDP likewise, demand for US debt has dropped so low the Fed has to spend $85 billion/month to prop up demand for Treasuries and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac securities to the point where its balance sheet has grown from less than $1 trillion to over $3 trillion (25% of US GDP; pray, Perry, enlighten us on how the Fed will unwind that), and US debt has grown from $9 trillion to $16 trillion.

    Yes, Perry, that tells you the business community and the Obama regime must be doing something right. Happy days!

    It tells the rest of us something quite different.

    Steve57 (60a887)

  98. What’s the DOW look like in gas price or food price adjusted dollars?

    Inflation should be measured by cost of fuel and food and housing, IMO, and economic metrics should be inflation adjusted.

    Dustin (73fead)

  99. you are dummerer than we gave you credit for

    Dummerer than a sack of Andrews.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  100. SPQR, you forgot Sturm, Ruger.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  101. Comment by Dustin (73fead) — 3/5/2013 @ 4:29 pm

    Dustin, you know that rational thought is not allowed in the presence of trolls, it makes their one or two brain-cells bleed.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  102. How long will Perry blame Bush for Obama standing on the throat of the American economy?

    JD (b63a52)

  103. Forgive me, Askeptic. I wouldn’t want to threaten an endangered species! :)

    Dustin (73fead)

  104. with dow record rally you really can have it all

    happyfeet (4bf7c2)

  105. How’s it feel to be on the wrong side of history. Nevermind, most of you are too old to find out
    Comment by Dad (b17026) — 3/5/2013 @ 9:47 am

    Actually, the problem is that too many are too young to know. Obama and company, like John F. Kerry, claimed that the US was the problem with the world, and if we would just leave Vietnam to the Vietnamese, all would be well.

    We did, it wasn’t, and those who spouted such nonsense should have crawled away in disgrace.
    But they didn’t, because they were really just being useful idiots for the America haters of the world.

    America is far from perfect, and when you compare it to perfection it is quite a mess,
    but when you compare it to the rest of the world, which is quite the mess, it is clear to see why America has an illegal immigration problem and other countries have illegal emigration problems.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  106. To quote Bob Dylan, “I don’t know much about the economy…”

    When I was growing up in the 60’s-80’s, I thought
    the worth of stock was pretty well tied to the actual company and its productivity, etc. But then as there was more money to put into 401k’s and mutual funds and such, market forces pushed up the prices because people just needed to buy something with their money. The beginning of the Internet and the dot come industry was ripe to see prices soar, even if there was often “no there there”.

    It seemed perfectly reasonable for the economy to slow after the dotcom burst, not to mention 911 (oh, that). In spite of all of the blabber about a “jobless recovery”, it actually seemed pretty good compared to what we’ve had with the one.
    Although they don’t get enough “credit” for it, it seems that manipulation of the housing market by the Dems and community organizers like the one was largely the reason for the 2008 meltdown.

    It doesn’t seem that there is much reason for the stock market to go up other than people want to put their money somewhere other than a savings account (which gets nothing) or real estate (iffy most places still, I think).
    So it seems to me once again that it makes more sense to expect a “correction” than anything else.

    I would like to know how to have my parents finance my mortgage, so they could get 2.5% instead of nothing, I could pay lower than I do, and the money would stay within the family as well. But liquidity is the problem there.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  107. JD, I see Perry can’t explain the effects of QE1 through QE-To-Infinity-And-Beyond on stock prices.

    This is revealing, no?

    It clarifies what we already know.

    JD (b63a52)

  108. Steve57 wrote:

    No post-WWII has been worse than the Obama “recovery.” In other words, this is the worst since the last pre-WWII recovery; the Great Depression.

    It’s all George Bush’s fault!

    The Dana channeling Perry (af9ec3)

  109. Comment by The Dana channeling Perry (af9ec3) — 3/5/2013 @ 6:21 pm

    Are you really sure you want to do that, Dana?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  110. Well, indeed, adjusted for inflation the DOW 30 index hasn’t regained its highs.

    But that’s all irrelevant because the stock indexes have never been an indicator of economic health … except for the utterly economically illiterate like our president.

    SPQR (768505)

  111. “Dad” is just edgy because Mom divorced him a couple of years ago.
    She eventually remarried a man by the name of Ward Cleaver, who makes a nice living as an insurance salesman.
    Mr. Cleaver imparts hard work, discipline, responsibility, fair play, and dignity. He also wears a nice charcoal suit with tie, and he can replace a timing belt, as well as repair a lawnmower.

    Mom realizes that Dad’s whiney “but the rich taxpayer owes me a living !” point of view cannot hold a candle to a solid citizen such as Ward Cleaver.

    Elephant Stone (9b9972)

  112. 99. JD

    It [the current economy] tells the rest of us something quite different [from me].

    It tells me that we should have passed the Jobs Act last year, and we should have closed tax loopholes and reduced tax expenditures several years ago. Then we would have had more jobs/lower unemployment, and, we may well have reduced the deficit, as all three measures increase revenue. I blame the dysfunctional Congressional Republicans for their lack of foresight, still true today.

    19. JD

    Explain to us the effect of QE1, QE2, QE3, etc … on the stock market.

    The Quantatitative Easings have kept interest rates very low, therefore they have been a facilitator for economic growth, albeit too weak, from the Bush Great Recession. Without it we would probably still be in recession, or worse. As well, QE’s have promoted the stock market to the upside as well as bond prices, a top down approach which has benefited the wealthy more than the middle and poor, the latter being a downside. The construction and real estate industries are beginning to feel the benefits of QE, finally.

    Another down side to QE is the risk of future inflation. I would hope that a continuing improvement in jobs and investment will work against too rapid a rise in inflation. In anticipation of the bond market faltering, except TIPS, it would be wise at this point to favor equities more, in my view. This outcome would also be a benefit to the working middle and poor, who would have more to spend, thus demand side improvement to our economy.

    Perry (329aa5)

  113. 108. It doesn’t seem that there is much reason for the stock market to go up other than people want to put their money somewhere other than a savings account (which gets nothing) or real estate (iffy most places still, I think).
    So it seems to me once again that it makes more sense to expect a “correction” than anything else.

    Comment by MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 3/5/2013 @ 6:04 pm

    That’s true, but the most important driver is the increase in the money supply. Money isn’t wealth. As the Fed keeps printing currency, it’s worth less and less as they churn it out. Stocks, commodities, etc., aren’t really going up in price. People just convert their cash into things that are better at holding their value then the paper notes the Fed keeps flooding us with.

    If the currency weren’t being debased, there wouldn’t be the rush to find some way to get rid of it in exchange for something that isn’t increasing in supply as fast and, therefore, not going down in value.

    If the economy was truly improving more goods would be produced for people to buy. But as I pointed out earlier industrial production remains below average.

    Steve57 (60a887)

  114. 112. But that’s all irrelevant because the stock indexes have never been an indicator of economic health … except for the utterly economically illiterate like our president.

    Comment by SPQR (768505) — 3/5/2013 @ 6:32 pm

    You missed the most proximate example of the illiterate. I refer you to comment #114.

    Steve57 (60a887)

  115. Perry,

    Try Ensure.

    Elephant Stone (9b9972)

  116. Perry wrote:

    This outcome would also be a benefit to the working middle and poor, who would have more to spend, thus demand side improvement to our economy.

    Even the liberal denizens at Think Progress wouldn’t swallow that line!

    The Dana who checked (af9ec3)

  117. Well, if it’s good enough for Zimbabwe, it’s sure as hell is good enough for us.

    mg.co.za, February 16, 2013:

    While the world feasts on bad news from Zimbabwe, foreign investors are pouring money in to the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange (ZSE), making it one the world’s best performing markets.

    An article in a Nigerian newspaper last week claimed the Nigerian Stock Exchange’s 13.4% January gain had “dwarfed all other stock markets globally”. But, in fact, Nigeria was only a distant second to the ZSE, which rose 20.3% during the month.

    Foreign money is quietly pouring in, defying negative views of the country. [O]ne stockbroker said most of that South African-brokered money was not South African but American and European.

    The stock market’s rise would be a surprise to an investor used to feeding on the standard fare of Zimbabwe news. There are also the cold facts on the state of the economy. Growth targets have been revised downwards several times in the past year – from Biti’s initial 9.4% forecast, he lowered his targets to 5.6% mid-year, before revising them further downwards to 4.4%. Manufacturing remains depressed, at 42% of capacity, and the central bank is raising alarm over the high level of imports.

    According to data obtained from brokers dealing with foreign investors, foreigners are net buyers because purchases were currently $38.3-million against sales of $27.3-million.

    ^ Worth keeping in mind if one assumes the health of a country’s stock market necessarily goes hand-in-hand with the health of a nation’s economy.

    Mark (928c12)

  118. Buying our own debt with more debt runs the risk of possible future inflation.

    I really don’t think Perry lives on this planet. The economy is recovering? Obama declared it recovered a looooooooooooooong time ago. Remember recovery summer? We have turned the corner. Jobs are increasing? There continues to be an exodus from the workforce, after 99 weeks on unemployment.

    The jobs act nonsense proposal, build bridges, invest in infrastructure, invest in green energy boondoggles, etc … Would increase revenues? You are effin delusional.

    JD (b63a52)

  119. Another down side to QE is the risk of future inflation.

    Somebody doesn’t realize the rise in stock prices is inflation; nothing more.

    Ah, those trustworthy government statistics. If we used the same methodologies the government used in 1980 our current official inflation rate would be 10%. If we used the same methodologies as in 1990 it would clock in at 5.5%

    CNBC: Inflation Actually Near 10% Using Older Measure

    The author gives too much credence as to why the government changes the methodologies. The bottom line is it’s in the political interest of whoever is in charge to understate certain statistics.

    Want me to tell how, if I were in charge of the stats, we’d have less than 5% unemployment tomorrow?

    Steve57 (60a887)

  120. “PS: I’ll bet many of you, I too, have made good money in the stock market, all because you have made some astute investments in some grand American companies large and small alike.”

    Perry – Why not share some of your investing prowess and stock pick with the right wing extremists on this blog? Regale us with how much money you made and on which stocks.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  121. In short, QE1-4738264 have propped up a stock market with inflationary dollars and hampering investment in other vehicles, by artificially suppressing interest rates. As soon as they quit pumping this bubble, it ain’t gonna be pretty. So, your worship of Teh Won for a not-adjusted-for-inflation high due to inflation shows how shallow your understanding is, and how deep your commitment to be a mouthpiece for Teh Won is.

    JD (b63a52)

  122. 67. Steve57

    No post-WWII has been worse than the Obama “recovery.” In other words, this is the worst since the last pre-WWII recovery; the Great Depression.

    Your statement makes no sense to me, but I think you mean to compare the post-WWII recovery to the post-Bush43 recovery.

    You are comparing apples to oranges, therefore there is little to be learned from your cite. We had practically no global competition post WWII; a huge difference.

    It is worth noting, however, that the post WWII recovery was achieve at a time when our tax policies were extremely progressive, taxing the top earners very heavily. Moreover, we had the GI Bill, which heavily facilitated education and job training, in contrast to today’s environment.

    Perry (329aa5)

  123. It is worth noting, however, that the post WWII recovery was achieve at a time when our tax policies were extremely progressive, taxing the top earners very heavily. Moreover, we had the GI Bill, which heavily facilitated education and job training, in contrast to today’s environment.

    Unpack all the silliness in this one paragraph …

    JD (b63a52)

  124. Your statement makes no sense to me, but I think you mean to compare the post-WWII recovery to the post-Bush43 recovery.

    Judging by your comments, Perry, a whole lot is beyond your understanding.

    I thought my statement was clear enough. In any case it was just a restatement of the first sentence in the paragraph I quoted from the article I linked to. If that was still not clear enough, a thorough person would have gone to the link.

    We now know that along with all your other demonstrated gifts you are not a thorough person.

    Had you taken the time to go the link and looked at the charts, you’d see that the Obama “recovery” is worse than they worst of any post-WWII recovery in 5 of 7 economic measures. Not just worse than the WWII recovery.

    And well below the average for all prior post-WWII recoveries in 6 of the 7 categories.

    But don’t bother; I’m sure those charts would make no sense to you either.

    Steve57 (60a887)

  125. that the post WWII recovery was achieve at a time when our tax policies were extremely progressive, taxing the top earners very heavily

    Within the context of a devastated Europe, a destroyed Japan, a China and Russia (or Soviet Union) at the height of self-paralysis, and an American society not spoiled by decades of prosperity. For example, modest-income Americans of the 1940s and 1950s would have been stunned by just how comfy and self-entitled their counterparts are in the 21st century.

    We’re living in a brave new world, suckers.

    Mark (928c12)

  126. “It is worth noting, however, that the post WWII recovery was achieve at a time when our tax policies were extremely progressive, taxing the top earners very heavily.”

    Perry – Something which never seems to sink in with you libs because you keep bringing it up, the good old days of higher marginal tax rates on top earners, is whether the tax structures in place in those times ever generated higher revenues for the government. Can you answer that question Perry?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  127. Moreover, we had the GI Bill, which heavily facilitated education and job training, in contrast to today’s environment.
    Comment by Perry (329aa5) — 3/5/2013 @ 7:20 pm

    — And we do not currently have a GI Bill?

    Icy (a94363)

  128. The liberals have been telling us for decades that the post-war 1940s & 50s were a wasteland of “Peyton Place” family values, conformity, white bread, and prudishness that we should not hold up as the ideal civil society.

    Now Perry tells us it was the original Paradise on Earth, albeit because income tax rates were so high, and everyone was getting educated and trained for the workforce.

    This is typical of that anthropological model known as The Liberal.
    He says “x” on this day, then says “y” on that day.
    The goalposts are eternally moving.

    Elephant Stone (e3a9b3)

  129. 124. “Your statement makes no sense to me”

    No sh*t. You are senseless, imbecile.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  130. 122. daleyrocks

    Perry – Why not share some of your investing prowess and stock pick with the right wing extremists on this blog? Regale us with how much money you made and on which stocks.

    I’m happy to share. My investment strategy is home grown and not very complicated. I’ll give you a few details along with favored pundits:

    I pick individual stocks of companies I like, focusing on those that appear to be undervalued. I also focus on sectors, purchasing appropriate ETFs and some mutual funds (the latter usually Vanguard due to low fees).

    I’ve done pretty well in the past year with HD, IBM, AAPL, GOOG, PM, PFE, AGNC, CMO, IVR, and still own all but AAPL which I sold soon after Jobs’ passing, HD being a major winner. As you can see, I’m invested in REITs beginning early last year and expanding since. “Pretty well” to me has been in the 8-9% range per year over time. I took a loss in 2009, but did get out fairly early, in January.

    On sectors, I’m currently in ETFs in health care, home builders, finance, retail, and consumer staples. I also own a few mutual funds in mid-cap, small-cap, and international (with some emphasis on the BRIC nations).

    I’ve recently moved more toward equities, away from bonds, and anticipate continuing to do so.

    In bonds, I’m moving more toward TIPS. My bonds are in mutual funds. I pay attention to PIMCO CEO Mohamed El-Erian.

    I follow the market on a daily basis, and tune in to NBR and CNBC regularly. I also pay attention to Cramer, whom I think is quite astute, as well as to Nouriel Roubini, Mark Zandi, and yes, Paul Krugman too.

    My wife and I have just decided to hire a professional advisor, an independent CFP, to give us input on financial planning including investing, so that hopefully we can do better in the future and be better protected as well. This person has done very well for my next door neighbor over the years.

    Perry (329aa5)

  131. Kevin, a friend of mine has a few investors who are extremely wealthy who are buying up distressed condos and homes, holding them, and then making a profit. Land will always be there, I guess, as opposed to P/E ratios.

    I believe we don’t have capitalism anymore, recessions and recoveries. We have a series of bubbles financed by the Fed. I’m sure it won’t end well.

    Patricia (be0117)


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