Patterico's Pontifications

2/29/2012

Obama Lies About Romney Being a Liar

Filed under: 2012 Election,Obama — Patterico @ 7:07 am

The president on the campaign trail delivering a non-campaign address:

In a boisterous, excited tone, President Obama continued, criticizing Republicans who said “the workers made out like bandits in all of this; that saving the American auto industry was just about paying back unions. Really? I mean, even by the standards of this town, that’s a load of you-know-what.”

Typical of Obama, his saying Romney’s claim is a “load of you-know-what” is not only crude and unpresidential — it’s also false.

I’m not a fan of citing Big Media “fact checkers,” who typically serve as leftist partisans clothed as neutral arbiters. But when they actually say something disparaging about another leftist like Obama, it’s reliable, because it’s what the lawyers call a “declaration against interest.” If a doting parent admits his child might have a slight problem with tardiness, you can bet the kid is late all the time. And if the Washington Post Fact Checker says Obama’s bailouts were favorable to the unions, well, you can take that to the bank:

In terms of the “sweetheart deal” for the UAW, it’s fairly clear that the president gave precedence to the union and its blue collar members, who fared better than they would have been under Chapter 11. Meanwhile, scores of employees from the white-collar ranks are angry about cuts they had to accept. We won’t judge whether Obama’s stance was appropriate, but we can say that he came down on the side of the Democrat-friendly UAW.

Naturally, the column, which likes to award “Pinocchios” mostly to statements by Republicans, is still biased against Romney and for Obama. It doesn’t analyze the accuracy of Obama’s assertion that he didn’t favor the unions in the bailout, which is clear bunk. Mustn’t give “Pinocchios” to Obama! It instead awards a “Pinocchio” to Romney for saying that Solyndra money was crony capitalism, claiming that Romney “doesn’t have definitive proof of Obama’s intentions, even if the evidence suggests continued grounds for suspicion.”

See what I mean? When a “fact checker” column is that desperate to spin for Obama, yet still admits that the bailouts favored the unions, then the bailouts damn well favored the unions. Not even a “fact checker” spinmeister can spin that one.

So, Mr. Obama, you are the one who is full of “you-know-what”: your usual pile of cynical pandering falsehoods.

74 Responses to “Obama Lies About Romney Being a Liar”

  1. Patterico: A story about Romney for your consideration:

    SOMETIMES IT TAKES A HERO:In 1996, 14-year-old Melissa Gay from Connecticut disappeared in NYC. After about a week of fruitless searching, the father turned for help: Robert Gay’s boss didn’t hesitate. He said, ‘I don’t care how long it takes, we’re going to find her.’ A few hours later, he and other executives of the Boston-based firm were on the shuttle to New York; preparing to organize a huge volunteer effort. “My business partner stepped forward to take charge”, Robert Gay recalls. “He closed the company and brought almost all our employees to New York.” For Melissa Gay, a hero had appeared.

    That hero was Mitt Romney.

    Melissa was reunited with her parents. Follow the link for the full, compelling story.

    Then, compare it to what Obama would likely do in a similar situation.

    Mutnodjmet (c4995d)

  2. That is a good fact check from Kessler.

    Obama’s not-a-campaign-speech was misleading in other ways. He makes it sound as if Romney wrote against his bankruptcy plan, but Romney wrote against the loan the Big 3 asked for (it was November 2008). Obama may not know it, but GM and Chrysler did go through bankruptcy in the end, so when he says stuff like “Imagine! He wanted you to go bankrupt!”, he’s just being a jerk.

    I wish Romney would revive the line Obama used when he came out and said he didn’t stand with the greedy investors trying to get their money out of the Chrysler deal. It was when America was still too in love with Obama, but it was fairly outrageous and deserved attention.

    MayBee (081489)

  3. the American “auto industry” is just a piggy piggy union whore slush fund anymore

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  4. He is a source of renewable fuel isn’t he;

    narciso (87e966)

  5. A successful bailout, which didn’t involve gutting any unions, but did manage to inflict pain on the white collar minions that led them to the brink in the 1st place. Bummer.

    GWBpresnit (44abf8)

  6. He didn’t really favor the unions. He just subverted the rule of law to give them money they were not entitled to.

    JD (d05df3)

  7. GM had become a giant insurance provider that sold cars to pay for its retirees’ benefits. I remember when the left used the argument we needed universal health care to make US companies like GM competitive with companies in countries that had UHC. Remember that?

    Anyway, when people talk about the new capitalism that cares about workers and not profits, they should keep GM in mind. But maybe those are the same people who like the idea of the government holding a bunch of stock at a huge loss so the “right” workers don’t have a co-pay when they visit a doctor.

    MayBee (081489)

  8. Looks like we have a new troll.

    JD (d05df3)

  9. He just subverted the rule of law to give them money they were not entitled to.

    Just another payoff, in a long line of same.

    For some entertainment, watch the scramble to scupper the CEO of LightSquared in an attempt to cut all tentacles that reach back to The One and the FCC’s favoritism/collusion.

    Colonel Haiku (8a6873)

  10. Obama lies on a daily basis, with no shame, and with no fear of his stenographers in the media holding him accountable.

    How do we know he’s lying? When we see his lips move.

    Colonel Haiku (8a6873)

  11. The troll has class warfare oozing from its pores. That will be a common refrain from the Left until NOV.

    JD (d05df3)

  12. More racism…….

    The Emperor (bf5d7e)

  13. 10. Word. O’Mamba lies at the breakfast table.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  14. Kessler doesn’t even mention our GM giving all UAW workers a $7000 “profit sharing” check last week, did he?

    MayBee (081489)

  15. GM counts as ‘sales’ 700K units sitting on dealers lots. We will be paying into the 2008 bailout for years before they finally go under.

    China, the bright spot on GM’s books, is set for 3% growth for the next decade.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  16. He apprenticed by swallowing Arafat and Hamas’s lies on the Middle East beat, Kessler, but it also applies to Obama, re Khalidi

    narciso (87e966)

  17. The PBGC that will pick up the UAW is already broke, and McBain hepped in KC:

    http://beta.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=5029&mn=43476&pt=msg&mid=9174983

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  18. Okay, the Washington Post analyzes the Solyndra deal, acknowledges there’s plenty of reason to think that it was a case of crony capitalism, and then awards Romney a Pinocchio for saying so….

    The Ministry of Truth at work, obviously.

    But I think both you are reading Obama’s comment incorrectly there. He’s not saying the unions didn’t benefit. He’s saying that bailing out GM and Chrysler was motivated by other things besides benefiting the unions. And he’s not even saying that benefiting the unions was not a motive. He’s just saying there were also other motives at work.

    JBS (35ff7d)

  19. I take some solace in the fact that the majority of the comments on the Fact Checker piece are of the “what the hell have you been smoking?” variety.

    JVW (4d72aa)

  20. Oh, man. You missed a perfect opportunity!
    Instead of your pedestrian “Mustn’t give “Pinocchios” to Obama!” You SHOULD have said, ” Mustn’t give “Pinocchios” to Obama, Precious!” /end-gollum-voice

    Owain (f1a217)

  21. Romney, whom I have a very hard time supporting except against Obama, is right that they completely subverted normal bankruptcy law to screw those who were entitled to their investments, and this money went to unions who had helped Obama politically.

    Only an imbecile would ever invest in anything with unions involved again. In the long run, this kind of unpredictable government picking winners and losers has a terrible impact on the economy.

    Kessler doesn’t even mention our GM giving all UAW workers a $7000 “profit sharing” check last week, did he?

    Comment by MayBee

    Jeez. That just makes the claim undeniably literally correct.

    Santorum has a superior record on not burdening businesses. Any politician and say incendiary comments to incite the base. It’s their record I care about. Romney has a record of driving employers out of business.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  22. But I think both you are reading Obama’s comment incorrectly there. He’s not saying the unions didn’t benefit. He’s saying that bailing out GM and Chrysler was motivated by other things besides benefiting the unions. And he’s not even saying that benefiting the unions was not a motive. He’s just saying there were also other motives at work.

    Then he has no beef with Romney.
    But yet…he does!

    Notice Obama does not use the words “the way I designed the managed bankruptcy was just about saving the unions!” he says “saving the American auto industry”. You see? Romney was/is not just against the way Obama went about it….he was/is against saving the industry!

    No credit to Obama. It’s political hackery.

    MayBee (081489)

  23. Barcky saved then from bankruptcy by getting them into bankruptcy and then took the rule of law and set it on its ear.

    JD (d05df3)

  24. Ford could not be reached for comment.

    JD (d05df3)

  25. He’s not saying the unions didn’t benefit. He’s saying that bailing out GM and Chrysler was motivated by other things besides benefiting the unions.

    But the way he picked winners and losers was wrong, and cheated folks out of their money … which the unions benefited from.

    Now, you’re correct, JBS, that Obama used the form “he says it was just about paying back unions”. But that’s just weasel words. He’s claiming Romney was wrong, and he wasn’t on this one.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  26. It wasn’t just about paying back the unions. It was also an opportunity to extend the reach and control of big government.

    JD (d05df3)

  27. OT (but coming here soon I trust):

    Big Journalism: O’Keefe Files Suit Against Al Gore’s Current TV, Keith Olbermann, David Shuster

    http://bigjournalism.com/chartsock/2012/02/29/exclusive-okeefe-files-suit-against-al-gores-current-tv-keith-olbermann-david-shuster/

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  28. It wasn’t just about paying back the unions. It was also an opportunity to extend the reach and control of big government.

    Comment by JD

    Basically. At the time it was one of the most unbelievable and lawless power grabs I’d ever seen. I’m glad Romney is criticizing it.

    Little did I know that Obama’s power grabs would make this look like any old Tuesday. Obama has to go in 2012, even if we nominate the unpredictable RINO.

    Romney wouldn’t even be able to get away with a stunt like this. That’s one way he’s clearly better than Obama.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  29. “Santorum has a superior record on not burdening businesses.”

    Dustin – As a pro-union, Davis-Bacon supporting Senator from Pennsylvania, I find the above conclusion about Santorum questionable. Believing his flip flops from his actual record to his current rhetoric, it’s debatable.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  30. Dustin – As a pro-union, Davis-Bacon supporting Senator from Pennsylvania, I find the above conclusion about Santorum questionable. Believing his flip flops from his actual record to his current rhetoric, it’s debatable.

    He’s from Pennsylvania! Oh no!

    I said he’s the only one who never supported the ind mandate. The ind mandate in MA killed a lot of jobs. In fact, MA was 47th out of 50 on job growth.

    Believing his flip flops from his actual record to his current rhetoric, it’s debatable.

    Yes, let’s reject candidates who flip flop a lot.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  31. On ‘Blogger Appreciation Day’ let me just say I really respect Rico for not banning me a couple times.

    I thin a few others deserved it too, you know who you is.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  32. Also, the tax rate on businesses in MA was and is very, very high. You would be foolish to take a business to MA. That and a bloated government are more responsible for MA’s job failure during Romney’s lone term as Governor.

    Romney is exactly right on this criticism of Obama. But Daleyrocks is exactly right that such flip flopping makes me look at his record. Santorum has a better record. It’s not perfect, of course, but it’s tiresome seeing people trash someone for being imperfect in insincere defense of someone who is obviously much worse.

    Like a Romney fan attacking a flop flopper, there is some truth to the point, though.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  33. Santorum can’t beat Obama cause of he’s too busy throwing up the contents of his stomach about the separation of church n state

    he goes through more shoes than Anderson Cooper

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  34. Let’s not forget Romney’s flip flop on question two in Ohio, a reform of collective bargaining for public employees. Romney now says he always supported it… but as we saw by Romney’s recent boast about using incendiary language to incite the right, he’s not very sincere.

    I’m delighted to see Romney or anybody hold Obama accountable for his corruption… that’s what it really is after all. But I trust Santorum more.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  35. Santorum can’t beat Obama cause of he’s too busy throwing up the contents of his stomach about the separation of church n state

    He can’t beat Obama with those who vote on that basis, but it’s a flawed conventional wisdom that such candidates can’t win.

    In fact, Santorum is polling much better than the alternatives with independents and he’s even drawing many democrats over for positive reasons.

    Note: I said positive reasons. Romney is right that it’s wrong (I think he said “disgusting and outrageous” for democrats to vote in the GOP primary for someone they don’t actually support).

    That said, Romney also boasted in 2007 about voting for democrats he thought were weakest to help the GOP nominee.

    Santorum actually means what he says. Projecting the flip flopper meme on him doesn’t make much sense, but I realize projection is damn near the universal law these days.

    I’ve seen Santorum build support over time. He can actually convince someone to support him.

    When Obama attacks Romney’s character over this GM restructuring, Obama’s the one who is full of crap. But the attack the character resonates. There’s something to that. The guy will say anything.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  36. 33. A decent case has not been made that any of these knuckleheads can beat the Lord of the Flies.

    One thing is certain though, the base ain’t feeling it and unless they do, we’re hosed.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  37. OT, the drought in the North is broken, 10 inches of heavy white stuff with more on tap later in the week.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  38. A decent case has not been made that any of these knuckleheads can beat the Lord of the Flies.

    The economy seems to be the main case. I worry about that one. My real worry, though is that if we nominate a big government guy (And to be clear, I think both Santorum and Romney are that), it could impact congressional races.

    But this post, at least to me, is largely about credibility and honesty. Obama (weasel words ignored) is claiming Romney is full of crap about a very accurate charge Romney leveled. This makes perfect political sense. If Obama hits Romney for being full of crap for the rest of the year, that’s actually something a lot of Republicans will agree with.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  39. “Like a Romney fan attacking a flop flopper, there is some truth to the point, though.”

    “Santorum actually means what he says. Projecting the flip flopper meme on him doesn’t make much sense, but I realize projection is damn near the universal law these days.”

    Dustin – If you want to be intellectually honest, it is not projection to put the flip flopper label you tar Romney with on Santorum. Again, look at his pro-union, big labor stances as a Senator from Pennsylvania and his current excuses for those stances.

    *I was representing the people of Pennsylvania then. As president I would be representing the people of the entire country.

    Just as with NCLB, he’s saying he took some for the team, his constituents. I don’t necessarily have a problem with that, but have the courage to recognize he’s flip flopped. Contrary to what your comment #30 says, my comment #29 references #28, which directly refernces the auto bailout, not healthcare.

    Let’s keep it honest.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  40. He didn’t really favor the unions. He just subverted the rule of law to give them money they were not entitled to.
    Comment by JD — 2/29/2012 @ 7:50 am

    – Rule of law, shmule of law! He’s Da Prez!!!

    Icy (57df98)

  41. Let’s keep it honest.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Daleyrocks, you need to stop the personal attacks.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  42. Contrary to what your comment #30 says, my comment #29 references #28, which directly refernces the auto bailout, not healthcare.

    This makes no sense, because you were replying to my point that Santorum has never supported the job killing ind. mandate. Indeed this is a major point that shows Santorum understands what kills jobs better than Romney does.

    Both of these candidates are big gov guys. I never said otherwise of Santorum.

    have the courage to recognize he’s flip flopped.

    Did I say he didn’t? Your very quote shows me calling Santorum a flip flopper. I note how strange it is to prefer Romney to Santorum over flip flopping, even on unions specifically, given Romney’s behavior on Ohio’s question two.

    I have no illusions about Santorum’s fundamental differences from me, a more libertarian type of conservative.

    But you have a pattern of saying I said the opposite of what I actually said and then personally attacking me. You also complained that I called the guy who was referencing my race “troll”. Specifically.

    You should drop the personal attacks. I know you do not like it when I criticize Romney, but I’m actually saying Romney is right in this case with Obama. I’m just call a spade a spade, whether it helps Romney or not, backing it up with facts.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  43. “Daleyrocks, you need to stop the personal attacks.”

    Dustin – I was not attacking, I was calling for consistency. Sorry if you interpreted it that way.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  44. And actually, I think Santorum’s flip flop is in the context of being brutally honest. I simply get the impression he’s got tons more character than the competition.

    I don’t know that Santorum would be a better president than Romney, and have said so for months. But I will offer criticisms of Romney, particularly on credibility, and there’s no need to get personal in defending Romney.

    Romney fans actually hurt Romney by taking the Romney case too far. Just say he’s better than Obama and the congress is more important. Don’t pretend those who are unsatisfied with Romney’s record are horrible people. It’s just not so.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  45. “This makes no sense, because you were replying to my point that Santorum has never supported the job killing ind. mandate”

    Dustin – Maybe you have a different comment numbering screen. On mine #28 starts with you quoting JD about the incredible auto industry bailout power grab. Nothing in your comment about the individual mandate or perhaps you have a comment in moderation that alters the numbering sequence.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  46. Dustin – I was not attacking, I was calling for consistency. Sorry if you interpreted it that way.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    I accept your apology.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  47. On mine #28 starts with you quoting JD about the incredible auto industry bailout power grab.

    Well, our disagreement about Romney aside, it was an incredible power grab and Romney is right to criticize Obama about it.

    I also think Romney is much more vulnerable to the ‘he’s full of crap’ reply than Santorum. Even though, in this case, Romney is not full of crap.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  48. “But you have a pattern of saying I said the opposite of what I actually said and then personally attacking me.”

    Dustin – That’s your claim, while I believe you serially misrepresent what I have said. You have also repeatedly claimed I called you gay without providing evidence. I would like to see that evidence.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  49. And if I’m misinterpreting you, Daleyrocks, let’s just put the animus aside for the time being. I have been disgusted with a lot of the replied to my factual arguments on this blog. If you are not intending that kind of thing today, I do not want to relitigate it.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  50. Oh, you do want to relitigate it? OK.

    You have also repeatedly claimed I called you gay without providing evidence.

    I would prefer to see you actually deny saying so first. That would be a lot more straightforward.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  51. Dustin – I’m fine with that. My point about Santorum is that while agree with you he has been consistent on a lot of issues, there a number he has not. He has attempted to explain away inconvenient votes as I described above. I don’t think it’s fair to describe changes in the positions of one candidate as flip flops while ignoring those of another, especially on something like Davis-Bacon which to me has a direct impact on federal spending and the deficit.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  52. “I would prefer to see you actually deny saying so first.”

    Dustin – No, I don’t want to relitigate it, but I don’t recall ever saying such a thing.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  53. Isnt there a thread already designated for this?

    JD (c23137)

  54. JD – I was trying to talk about the topic of the thread.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  55. Gone for a while.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  56. I don’t think it’s fair to describe changes in the positions of one candidate as flip flops while ignoring those of another

    That’s fair. Suffice to say Santorum has explained his votes, which he disagrees with now. That’s a flip flop, of course. But if that kind of thing matters to you, and it should, I think Santorum is the least bad on this kind of issue. Least bad should be Santorum’s campaign slogan.

    I don’t want to relitigate it, but I don’t recall ever saying such a thing.

    It seems stupid to relitigate it, so don’t interpret the following as an attack.

    A problem we both have is that we get angry and lash out. I do my best not to misrepresent your comments, though I admit I have simply asserted you have been in reliable service to Romney for months, which is something you have said you weren’t. So at least on that point, I am actually representing your comments as the opposite of how you represent them. It’s a good faith analysis.

    I think one of our patterns, as it’s a temptation I can’t say I haven’t fallen to as well, is to illustrate absurdity by emulating the person you’re mad at. So if you think I’m serially misrepresenting your comments (which was not intentional if that happened), you reply by trying to show me what that’s like by taking a liberty here and there. And then a couple of months later we both think the other is a shameless liar because it’s escalated.

    especially on something like Davis-Bacon which to me has a direct impact on federal spending and the deficit.

    Yeah, you’re right about that too.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  57. WaPo Fact Checker has been reported to Attack Watch.

    Icy (57df98)

  58. Voice of the gated community goes full metal crazification

    Crazification explained here

    GWBpresnit (44abf8)

  59. Crazification on display here ^^^^^

    Icy (57df98)

  60. I don’t see how your link to some weirdo fantasizing about 30 million Americans wanting to kill Obama is sane or relevant.

    What’s relevant is Obama’s credibility when he talks about how his bailout didn’t benefit the unions it so clearly did, and the power grab Romney accurately criticized.

    I think Red State’s column makes sense. But regardless of that, Obama is the one who is full of crap on this issue.

    And I have to add: Obama sounds a lot like one of us commenters in a partisan blog, describing a former governor as “full of you know what”. That’s not far from flipping the bird in the middle of a debate. This punk is supposedly the leader of the free world.

    Dustin (401f3a)

  61. “It doesn’t analyze the accuracy of Obama’s assertion that he didn’t favor the unions in the bailout”

    That’s not what Obama asserted.

    Romney’s not used to workers coming away with much when he’s done with companies. So he has a hard time understanding what happened in Detroit.

    Geoff (518b93)

  62. Obama is a SCOAMF.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  63. In a boisterous, excited tone, President Obama continued“the workers made out like bandits in all of this; that saving the American auto industry was just about paying back unions. Really? I mean, even by the standards of this town, that’s a load of you-know-what.”

    You know what the you-know-what is? It’s what he implies the opposition is saying. President Obama is knocking down a straw man.

    Nobody is saying the workers made out like bandits. It’s the retirees who did. whom he didn’t mention at all.

    Under bankruptcy law they came after the bondholders. Now you may feelk that’s not the way it should be. However, if it had been different, General Motors would not have been able to borrow so much money.

    The government loaned much money to GM and also had helped many banks and its goodwill was needed, and it controlled the creditor’s committee, and the UAW pensions and benefits were saved at the expense of bondholders.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  64. Jay Cost provides a powerful anti-manure agent to combat the verbal-diarrhea plagued coyotes among us.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/morning-jay-how-romney-won-arizona-and-michigan_632975.html

    Colonel Haiku (8cf52c)

  65. 37-Hope the pheasants survive.

    sickofrinos (44de53)

  66. How about the POTUS hectoring Americans For Prosperity to provide a list of donors that NO LAW ACTUALLY REQUIRES THEM TO HAND-OVER!

    http://t.co/yq6slK16

    Colonel Haiku (8cf52c)

  67. Obama must think he was appointed King of the USA!

    Colonel Haiku (8cf52c)

  68. Speaking of being less than honest- at the blogads to the R we see this:
    Sheriff Joe Arpaio To Hold News Conference Concerning Obama’s Citizenship Questions

    What I want to know is, if the fake document about Bush was to believed because it was “true anyway”, then should an American birth certificate, even if real, be not counted as real when the said person is anti-American?

    Painted Jaguar (dictated to MD in Philly) (3d3f72)

  69. Well, it is clear to see that all of the anti-Romney vermin are out for this cat to toy with. I have some nice cheese for you.

    acat (cf3d4e)

  70. 64. If Mr. Cost actually took pains to compare the voters to the population in his exit polling valedictory I’d be less inclined to think him a poseur.

    Yes, 930K is an improvement over 2008 but rather short of 1.3M of 2000. Has MI population declined? Has the proportion of Righties following turning out Donks following Granholm declined?

    Who exactly isn’t voting if Donks are?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  71. 72. Hastening the day of global finance reset. The US banks have written $1 Trillion in CDS on EU sovereign defaults.

    Meantime, the ECB takes 40 Billion in Greek Treasuries and just magically converts them to 30-year bonds. No money changes hands, no commissions paid, no clearing house paid, nada.

    Banks are forced to take 30-50% of notional return on 150 Billion euros, and there will be a market for EU debt?

    Not bloody likely.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  72. Just an observation or two. Romney will bring conservatives and independents together this year to throw out Obama. Don’t like it? Stay home. We’ll win without you. At least Romney has discernible political core values.

    Voter Beware
    Mew

    acat

    acat (5044ee)


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