Patterico's Pontifications

10/13/2011

Mitt Romney: The Devil You Know

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 10:38 am

[Posted by Karl]

For a man the establishment (including the GOP establishment) seems desperate to annoint the inevitable Republican presidential nominee, Mitt Romney has problems.  In the past two months, Romney has gone from putative front-runner to being beaten first by Rick Perry (Rhetorically-Challenged Texan Who Reminds You of George W. Bush), and now by Herman Cain (Unelected Businessguy With a Tax Plan).  Although Romney’s best asset in the campaign may be his prior experience running for president, he remains stuck in a polling range, despite getting easy treatment from the media and his rivals.  Romney remains The Devil You Know, as more GOP voters rush from one The Devil You Don’t Know to another.  His apparent strategy is to wait out the opposition; it’s a strategy with a downside.

After all, the basic knocks on Romney are well-known: He’s a RINO and inveterate flip-flopper.  Romney’s flip-floppery is part of a tradition of establishment candidates making peace with grassroots of the party.  But the polling suggests that the grassroots aren’t buying it, perhaps because — in contrast to 2008 — Romney really isn’t pandering much for 2012.  Instead, Romney is tring to win by saying as little as humanly possible.

Take, for example, this week’s Bloomberg/WaPo debate… please.  The broad consensus was that Romney gave a bravura performance, and the conventional wisdom is these debates matter more than ever (despite Romney’s consistently good debate performances not moving his numbers).  Beyond telegenics, what did Romney give voters as a reason to support him?

The debate touched on Romney’s 160-page economic plan.  Indeed, Cain’s supposed challenge to Romney focused on its length and supposed complexity (which was not much of an attack, as it gave Romney a chance to tout his supposed plan).  The reason the word “supposed” appears three times in the last sentence is that Romney’s 160-page document is more a plan to have a plan than a plan:

If you make it through the entire document, you’ll even run across a handful of real, if mostly underdeveloped, policy proposals: establishing a hard cap for regulatory costs, lowering the corporate tax rate to 25 percent, eliminating the estate tax, repeal ObamaCare and the Dodd-Frank Wall Street regulation bill, In the course of [160] pages, it’s hard for even a master consultant like Romney to avoid proposing anything at all.

However, it’s not for lack of trying.  Romney’s 160-page “plan” spends one page on entitlement reform.  It praises Paul Ryan’s efforts, but states Romney’s plan will be different.  How different?  We can only guess.  Romney, in the “plan” and the debates, offers a “cut, cap and balance” approach overall — but from where are the cuts going to come?   On this point, Romney’s shameless attacks on Perry over Social Security and equally shameless defense of RomneyCare offer no comfort to the grassroots that he would spend any political capital tackling the primary drivers of our exploding debt.  According to the “plan,” “In the long run, Mitt Romney will pursue a conservative overhaul of the tax system… The approach taken by the Bowles-Simpson Commission is a good starting point for the discussion.”  Bowles-Simpson contemplates historically high taxes and retaining ObamaCare (which Romney says he would repeal, not that anyone believes him).  Romney’s actual plan remains anyone’s guess.

Granted, when the economy is bad enough — as it was in 2008 — a candidate may be able to win mouthing platitutdes at debates.  But as bad as the economy is today, it is not currently melting down as it was right at the outset of the 2008 general election campaign.  And what if a similar crisis did erupt?  IMF advisor Bob Shapiro recently warned Europe could melt down worse than 2008 in the next few weeks; although US banks have been dumping Euro sovereign debt, the public does not know how much US institutions are exposed via credit default swaps.  Pres. Obama opened his most recent presser worrying that a Eurozone implosion could push us back into recession.  Not unlike Romney, European governments mostly have a plan to have a plan — and even then, Germany will be lucky to escape recession.  Yet Romney dismissed all of this as a “hypothetical” during his near-universally acclaimed debate performance and made clear that he has not thought of any alternative to another TARP-like solution to any future crisis.

Romney is so confident he will be the nominee that he wants to avoid saying anything that might be held against him in a general election.  But to get enough GOP voters to commit to him, he may have to commit to something, and be prepared to defend it against Democrats, instead of sounding more like one himself.

–Karl

692 Responses to “Mitt Romney: The Devil You Know”

  1. Ding!

    Karl (f07e38)

  2. You swung it out of the park.

    Romney faithful to accuse you of playing on their fears in 5…4…3…2…1…

    DohBiden (d54602)

  3. I would hope anyone lodging that accusation will recall I dinged Perry just yesterday.

    Karl (f07e38)

  4. Why do you hate Mormons, and why are you trying to get Obama re-elected?

    JD (cae88c)

  5. Is Mitt Romney our age’s Harold Stassen?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (85da3b)

  6. You de Man, Karl.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  7. Romney is the national version of Meg Whitman.
    If he gets the nomination look for a sudden exposure of his illegal alien household staff, with Gloria Alred as narrator.

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  8. For pete’s sake.

    The media is completely against Romney.

    Both the left and the right!

    Rush Limbaugh is a total flip flopper. In 2008, long after Romneycare, Limbaugh called him the one who filled all three legs of the conservative stool!!!!!

    Mitt Romney has been slandered by the Obama propaganda machine and you are eating it up and spitting it back.

    What is wrong with you people?

    Stop changing the definition of “conservative” to mean “Anybody But Romney”. That isn’t what it means!!!!

    jilol (0bb6e9)

  9. 4. At the end of my colorectal exam the doctor woke me to the point of stupor and said, “You’re clean”, I thought yeah, I know,…, Oh, no polyps. During which time she’d left the exam room. Never saw her before or since.

    For that particular task, not a bad approach. For POTUS?

    OTOH, he’s a really bright slab of cod.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  10. This post is packed with lies.

    I can’t name them today, per se. I can either prove my case by copying the entire contents of unrelated articles, or issuing grade school level taunts. Either way, clearly I have shown this post is packed with lies, which I shall repeat 1000 times without a hint of irony.

    Romney/Kerry 2012!

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  11. Mitt Romney has been slandered by the Obama propaganda machine and you are eating it up and spitting it back.

    Specifics, please. What claim about Romney is not correct?

    Accept the possibility that Karl’s got a good faith set of criticisms of Mitt, just as he’s had for the other candidates, and they are not slanders or otherwise dishonest.

    Politicians have to learn that picking up a more conservative tone for the primary is not as effective as having an actual conservative rhetoric. Efforts to forgive someone for not having a conservative record with excuses are only going to do so much, and they will actually do nothing if the candidate appears to be untrustworthy.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  12. Go to hell romneytard.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  13. In 2008, in the GOP primaries, Romney was the rational choice over McCain,
    and would have positioned the party more positively after the 9/18 meltdown of the economy and the eventual GOP Presidential Candidate.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (85da3b)

  14. environmental regulator for Governor Romney, Gina McCarthy, is now the chief EPA clean air regulator and serving as point man in the Obama Administrations fight to make coal fired electric generating plants extinct.

    During his tenure in Massachusetts Romney’s environmental adviser in the effort to regulate “greenhouse gases” was John Holdren. You familiar with Holdren?
    He is now Obama’s Director of Science and Technology Policy.

    I’ll tell you what. If this SOB gets elected it’s the only thing that could save the global warming scam.

    A re-elected Obama can’t do it. He’d be too fucked up with apologising for the economic catastrophe of his first term, and consistently blocked by the conservative congress.

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  15. #10 is Dustin’s funniest post evah!

    Icy (666709)

  16. I supported Romney over Mccain.

    But that’s just not a powerful argument in this field, which actually has several conservatives in it. Huckabee was a fiscal liberal, Mccain has little executive experience aside from the Navy (not to mention his sins against the conservative orthosoxy) and Romney was a governor and successful businessman with a lot of flip flops, but of those three, clearly the best.

    One thing about Romney is that he hasn’t done anything since he lost the last election but build up for this one. Even as a pundit, he’s played it safe, such as that Rubio endorsement at the last minute, or his commentary on the debt ceiling.

    I think Romney could have won some support if he’d been acting like Sarah Palin for the past three years, but perhaps he felt that risked harming general election chances.

    Anyway, I think most of his positions and choices are merely calculated for politics, and that I have no confidence he would actually lead in difficult cases. That’s why even though I have often thought Romney is doing a great job laying out the case against Obama, I’m not budged in his favor.

    I was hoping my guy would emulate Romney’s debate skills, but that’s obviously not going to happen. I’m willing to compromise a lot in my nominee choice, but I need someone who will cut spending, and I know cutting spending, especially entitlements, is going to require a leader with tremendous courage.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  17. #10 is Dustin’s funniest post evah!

    Comment by Icy —

    But my #11 is practically incomprehensible.

    :(

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  18. I liked Romney long ago but now I simply know too much about him to trust that he will in any way shrink the size and scope of the Fedzilla monster. I am a NOT Romney voter that is afraid that I will once again be stuck with voting against the Democrat rather than for the Republican. I am very tired of never even having a choice in the primaries because the candidate will be chosen by others before I get a chance to vote. Something needs to be done about the primary process. Maybe a rotating primary schedule? I am really frustrated. Perry is a great governor and I hope he begins to speak better in the remaining debates. Cain, I loved, right up to when he declared he would be Romney’s VP but would never agree to be Perry’s VP, WTH? I know the tuition bugs conservatives but I have to agree with Perry that as long as we are stuck with these kids because the Federal government refuses to enforce immigration laws then allowing instate tuition is a financial decision. Their parents pay state taxes and the children who go to college will be net tax revenuers rather than tax fund takers. Do I like it, no! But economically it makes sense.

    Texas Mom 2012 (cee89f)

  19. I’m seeing Cain tomorrow he will be at Bob’s Honda House in Jackson – I will be the extremely large guy in the tackiest hawaiian shirt I can find carefull pinned open to the navel holding a beer screaming Cain Cain Cain 9 9 9 Cain Cain Cain 9 9 9!

    Should drive his support down a notch or two ;)

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  20. Texas Mom,

    Yes my dear fellow Texan, we Texans are responsible for the entire United States Security ourselves – footing the bill so heaven forbid, Northern States may need the bi-lingual teachers and election signs.

    The border is the responsibility of Texas now on our dime, nevermind that we as a state cannot patrol that border or infringe on the land holders rights nor can we constitutionally stop people who have not violated Texas Statutes.

    We Texans doing the job that the Representatives in Congress of the other 49 states wont do – oh but they will criticize – yes that they will do

    I wonder if candidates are figuring ut how they will get elected without the hispanic vote?

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  21. For a Conservative in 2008, Romney was a rational alternative to McCain;
    I an not sure that he enjoys that same advantage in today’s field.
    That was then, this is now!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (85da3b)

  22. I have not decided on Romney yet either by why all the criticism on his strategy when it is working as he is clearly winning. Besides we see that Obama ran a spectacular campaign but can’t lead for the office. Some people interview great and get the job and then have nothing to offer. He is clearly running a smart enough campaign to lead the pack. I am neutral or leaning toward Romney at this point because anyone who gets a simultaneous MBA/law degree at Harvard is brilliant. I don’t mind his changing his mind some as that is a sign of learning and growing to a point as long as it is not flip flopping as in political pandering which is what he is accused of. But remember, changing ones mind is not all bad.

    Brett (5f9a26)

  23. Just once, can we have a President without a connection to the Ivy’s?
    Sometimes I believe that was a primary attraction of Sarah Palin;
    she wasn’t one of the “elites”, but was one of the “people”.

    Country-class v. Ruling-class!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (85da3b)

  24. I have not decided on Romney yet either by why all the criticism on his strategy when it is working as he is clearly winning.

    If the criticism is that folks lack faith in him because he shamelessly says whatever he can in order to win the election, his winning is not a very good answer.

    However, Cain is beating Romney in some polls. And Romney isn’t actually making a ton of headway.

    anyone who gets a simultaneous MBA/law degree at Harvard is brilliant.

    Anyone who runs a state successfully for a decade is more impressive.

    We’re not electing a student, we’re electing a president.

    as long as it is not flip flopping as in political pandering which is what he is accused of.

    Changing one’s mind once in a while can be a good thing, but if you have a core principle that you abandon after decades, and it just happens to coincide precisely with your new political goal, that is a flip flop. Romney swore never to waver on Roe V Wade and a woman’s right to choose, defending himself specifically from the idea he would change his mind with righteous indignation. His switch came after 37 years of having that view. What late 50s man changes his mind on that sort of thing?

    He also said he supports very strong gun control.

    In his 1994 US Senate run, Romney backed two gun-control measures strongly opposed by the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups: the Brady Bill, which imposed a five-day waiting period on gun sales, and a ban on certain assault weapons.

    “That’s not going to make me the hero of the NRA,” Romney told the Boston Herald in 1994.

    At another campaign stop that year, he told reporters: “I don’t line up with the NRA.

    By his own words!

    He changed that in 2008 to

    I do not support any new legislation of an assault weapon ban nature, including that against semiautomatic weapons.

    He already signed one assault weapons ban, and he and the MA leg increased the tax on guns enormously, and the liberals praised him for how this greatly reduced the number of gun owners.

    Mitt’s entire campaign in MA was to say he wasn’t conservative, but rather independent.

    Romney: Look, I was an independent during the time of Reagan-Bush. I’m not trying to take us back to Reagan-Bush. My positions don’t talk about the things you suggest they talk about.

    That’s how he sold himself to the citizens in MA when he wanted their votes. As soon as he didn’t want their votes anymore he said

    Look, I’ve been governor in a pretty tough state. You’ve heard of blue states. In the toughest of blue states, I made the toughest decisions and did what was right for America. I have conservative values.

    If you’ve watched these two answers, it’s clear Romney was trying to assure MA, the only state that didn’t reelect Reagan, that he’s a different sort of Republican that is not far from MA voters on the issues. Then he went out of his way to say he’s far far from acceptable to their political views.

    Romney has not flip flopped on Romneycare, but it was the model for Obamacare and Romney’s people actually helped create Obamacare, working for the White House. Romney can’t flip flop on this neatly, so he just dismisses it.

    Romney complained in one debate:

    Why don’t we let each of us describe our own views, as opposed to taking time to describe those of our colleagues?

    This is annoying for two reasons. For one, it’s a lame way to avoid people pointing out the flip flops. For another, Romney has attempted to describe his opponent’s positions many times, the worst example being pretending Perry’s social security plan was to abolish it because Perry noted it shouldn’t be run like a ponzi scheme.

    Anyway, Brett, Romney has won precisely one political campaign, and that was before he flip flopped on a single thing. I’m not sure Romney’s showing us he’s a successful politician. He simply takes some of the stereotypes about an insincere campaigner to the next level.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  25. Sometimes I believe that was a primary attraction of Sarah Palin;

    Of course it was!

    I know a few Ivy league folks who are good people, but most of the idiots who ruined this country are Ivy league. Goldman Sachs. Obama. Deficit spending. Kelo. Roe v Wade. Wickard. Sneering elitists did that.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  26. I am worried that with Romney we are getting a candidate rammed down our throats by the MSM, as they did with Juan McCain, for the sole purpose of having a defeatable opponent. I was a supporter in 08 but now, not so much. Libs always show you who they fear the most which is why they are slaughtering Perry as much as possible. Also, establishment Repubs do not like Perry (Rove, Bush etc.) because in his administration they would be out of the loop. Hence out of power and influence. Their greatest fear, in fact. Also, if Romney is the nominee, expect massive press on how Mormonism is a cult, just like the on e that Tom Cruise is in. You can take that to the bank.
    Beware, the MSM bearing gifts…

    Gazzer (1d869e)

  27. They made a song about Mitt Romney …. Stephen Stills 1970 …

    Love the One You’re With
    by Stephen Stills

    If you’re down and confused, and you don’t remember who you’re talkin’ to. Concentration slip away, ‘cause your baby is so far away.

    Well there’s a rose in the fisted glove and the eagle flies with the dove, and if you can’t be with the one you love, honey, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with.

    Don’t be angry, don’t be sad, and don’t sit cryin’ over good times you’ve had. There’s a girl right next to you, and she’s just waitin’ for something to do.

    And there’s a rose in the fisted glove and the eagle flies with the dove, and if you can’t be with the one you love, honey, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with.

    Dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit, dit dit dit.

    Turn your heartache right into joy, she’s a girl, and you’re a boy. Well get it together, make it real nice,
    You ain’t gonna need anymore advice.

    And there’s a rose in the fisted glove and the eagle flies with the dove, and if you can’t be with the one you love, honey, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with, love the one you’re with.

    Dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit dit dit dit dit dit, dit dit dit, dit dit dit.

    My Bowels Hurt (8d652e)

  28. Gazzer, I worry about that too.

    Whether you’re on the left or right or middle, you realize we need decisive change.

    I fear the voters will see a candidate whose strategy is to fly under the radar on specifics and just be the smartest most competent manager. I would probably hire Romney over most of the other candidates for most jobs, but in this special job, we need someone who is decisive.

    Even most of Mccain’s voters didn’t really feel like Mccain was a true leader. So a lot of people didn’t know why they should want him to be president. In fact, did we? Out of thousands of voters (no exaggeration) I have never met one who supported Mccain. They all opposed Obama and/or supported Palin. I think very few folks envisioned Mccain charging through the domestic problems in this country with leadership.

    Even if you have no clue about politics, you know you want your leader to be a leader.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  29. Oh. I see some of you’all have decided to do the Groundhog Day movie thang again.

    elissa (27977e)

  30. 30 dits?

    My Bowels Hurt (8d652e)

  31. Elissa, I’m glad for that.

    This is a very important election.

    It is worthwhile to criticize all the candidates, but especially the ‘next one in line’ to remind good folks they need to rally behind one of the less bad alternatives.

    If Romney criticism is tiresome for you, that’s understandable. It’s a tiring process.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  32. I’ll say that the real problem i have with him is that i don’t feel like i know him.

    i mean that is what the flip flopper thing opens up. will the real mitt romney please stand up?

    But, otoh, I would prefer warm poo to the guy who is president right now, so…

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  33. Thanks for clarifying your position Dustin and others. I prefer debate on his issues not his campaign. And I am also sick of the Ivy League elites running the country. They have screwed it up enough. But I don’t think Perry is the answer as he was pretty liberal with border control and that is huge to me.

    Brett (5f9a26)

  34. for before colonel
    was before rick perry was
    before was he was

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  35. I continue to be impressed at Rombot’s unflagging optimism, ‘We’re just going thru a rough patch that will turn so smooth sledding when we get an enlightened despot to take the reins.’

    Since the Trouble in 2008 Bennie has loaned Europe $8 Trillion. In a couple he will begin redeeming any currency the EU has on hand for dollars ’cause nobody else will.

    Yet the Market rockets skyward on news the Slovaks gave the high sign to $440 Billion to save Greece, Ireland and Portugal negotiated last July before Italy and Spain went in the crapper. The Slovak government went under, folks, like the Germans narrowly avoided.

    Greece’s revenues are down 5%, they’re spending 150% of revenues, EU banks are going to lose 60% on their Greek bonds if they default tomorrow. And EU banks have just 50% of the money in reserves behind their loans.

    Yesterday analysts announced China’s banks have 10% of their loans in the ‘non-performing’ category.

    Since the Swiss pegged the franc to the euro not 2 months back developing economy currencies have collapsed. Mexico down 20%. Remember the trouble called “Arab Spring”? Food is up 50% in Egypt, tourism tits up, the National Bank has a month in welfare payments on hand.

    Pakistan’s ISI was the culprit in the attack on the US Embassy in Kabul. Turkey is running 11% deficit in its current account balance.

    Si, eso es un problema.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  36. look what we done done
    in texas before was or
    before it was was

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  37. Thanks for clarifying your position Dustin and others. I prefer debate on his issues not his campaign.

    Me too.

    But I don’t think Perry is the answer as he was pretty liberal with border control and that is huge to me.

    He actually has been pretty strong on border control. Cain and Romney have claimed otherwise, and this simply isn’t true. They are his opponents, so naturally are not the best source.

    Perry has invested a great deal of personal and money to secure the border, and unless I’m mistaken, has done more on this than any other candidate.

    His two issues you may have are 1) that the doesn’t want a fence along the river, but favors something that is more realistic and more effective even if Bachmann or whomever says a wall is more badass and 2) the Texas Dream Act, which Perry defended with a comment I think was offensive, saying those who disagree don’t have a heart. Perry has specifically rejected amnesty as well as improved border control in an official capacity. However, since he’s really doing it and not just talking about it, I worry that he’s more vulnerable to criticism than those who never actually did anything about the border.

    Anyway, I think worrying Perry will lead with his heart in the future is a legitimate immigration worry, though I also think Perry’s leadership would lead to a more secure border, and some of the other candidates would merely bluster about it without realistic solutions that were ever implemented or effective.

    Aaron is right that any of these guys, even Romney whom we can never really trust on ideology, are probably better than Obama, especially on a competence level. The problem here is that Romney’s path once in office is obviously triangulation rather than decisive reform, which is difficult to accept because we’re in so much debt.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  38. for before colonel
    was before rick perry was
    before was he was

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    You’re making more sense than usual.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  39. Brett, I agree with you and illegal immigration is huge to me. However, we are not always going to get everything we need from a candidate. I am cautiously backing Perry at the moment simply because, in order for this country to survive, we are going to need someone in the WH who is not “establishment” or beholden to special interests. We need someone who will make agressive cuts, and I mean real cuts not just reductions in the rate of increase in spending,which is all we ever get. Such a person will be very busy undoing all the damage that JEF has wrought. As to illegal immigration, IMHO the issue is so big to the vast majority of Americans that any amnesty attempt will be over-ridden by the sheer volume of protests from the voters. In other words, I doubt Perry could accomplish much in that regard, even if he wanted to.

    Gazzer (1d869e)

  40. And thanks to Dustin for fleshing out Perry’s border position. That was helpful. I would note that Perry did apologize for his “heartless” comment which is remarkable because pols never, ever apologize for anything. Kudos.

    Gazzer (1d869e)

  41. Gazzer and Brett’s concerns are justified. I just think it’s not specifically border control that’s the concern so much as other immigration issues.

    It’s critical that Perry and others get tons of good faith criticism. We can’t just blindly soldier for those we prefer like Obama’s fans did. Obama screwed his supporters too, after all.

    But Gazzer has the most important point we’re going to come across this election. We have to make some level of compromise or we absolutely will wind up with someone worse than Perry.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  42. I can’t vote for Romney. Even if it turns out he’s not a pedophile I still don’t think he has the character to be president.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  43. Romney is the third coming of Jesus compared to Barack Obama, feets.

    I reject him as a primary candidate, but I will vote for him.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  44. The border is porous. When Perry signs laws that make it possible for illegals to get instate tuition they will continue to come. You have to make less incentives for them to come. I live in California where we jut passed the Dream Act. Not only will they get in state tuition, they will get scholarships and free tuition paid for by my taxes that could have gone to my children or other Citizen’s children. If they think they want the illegals educated then fine, let them borrow the money, like I did, at full rates and pay it back….like I did, every cent. My sister lives in Texas and she is NOT a Perry fan and she is very conservative. I’ll have to find out further why she doesn’t care for Perry. What about Cain? He is beginning to surge.

    Brett (5f9a26)

  45. Even if it turns out he is not a pedophile. That is the kind of crap that is not helpful at all. Stop the downright bashing of Romney with comments such as that. That is shameful.

    Brett (5f9a26)

  46. My mom thought Perry was “useless as tits on a nun” Mr. Brett, and she was a Texas conservative.

    Me I think it’s sad we’re reduced to looking at the likes of Perry for leadership but I’d eagerly vote for him against Obama.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  47. Mr. Brett I’m not going to join in the rush to judgment about Romney’s purported pedophile proclivities, and I urge everyone else to do the same.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  48. What if we forced the left to totally own Obama by giving him 8 years? I’ve considered it. I can not vote for him but I’ve thought about not voting. The left still blames Bush. If they have Obama 8 years they have to own him and eat their words and their vote. The country will be in ruins and have to be rebuilt but maybe we get 2 decades of conservatives for it. Sometimes you have to demolish the house and rebuild instead of trying to fix it up again. Okay, go ahead and slaughter me….I can take it.

    Brett (5f9a26)

  49. Smellyfeet ~ I don’t want to get into a protracted personal argument with you as it is almost pointless online but your continuing to use Romney in the same sentence as pedophilia is pathetic and disgusting. I can’t stop you from using it but I’m losing any respect I might have had for your comments.

    Brett (5f9a26)

  50. he no fairs you just did it

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  51. *hey* no fairs I mean

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  52. also my name is not smellyfeet – but still that’s very clever

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  53. Happy’s refering to the astonishing double standard of a Romney supporter who keeps making claims that mainstream christians practice pedophilia

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  54. really? which Romney supporter says that?

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  55. Rick Perry Sneezes – exposes small children and infants to deadly influenza outbreak..

    other candidates demand apologies for 1992 sneeze

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  56. This Bettencourt person sounds like a douche I think

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  57. If Romney is “the one who filled all three legs of the conservative stool!!!!!” then it’s time to flush.

    And wipe afterwards, because he’s kind of squishy.

    Before Romney hired him, John Holdren recommended sterilization agents be added to municipal drinking water. Just in case you were wondering over Romney’s position regarding abortion, population control, ectera.

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  58. Happy,

    oh the sanctimonious appeals for calm and rejection of those who think mormonism is a cult should perhaps just tend to their own flock

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  59. mormonism is between you and your god I think

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  60. Did Eric ever source his asspull that Romney claimed to be a Dem?

    Lighten up, Brett. That is some funny stuff, happyfeet.

    JD (318f81)

  61. Romney has gone from putative front-runner to being beaten first by Rick Perry (Rhetorically-Challenged Texan Who Reminds You of George W. Bush), and now by Herman Cain (Unelected Businessguy With a Tax Plan).

    Based on polls that are well over one year before the election. Whichever candidate ends up being the nominee will be the one who has made the strongest case for his or her candidacy. So far, the only candidates who have convinced me they even want to be POTUS are Bachmann, Santorum and Romney. Cain has almost done that.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  62. JD ~ I realize I’m not one of the regular participants but I enjoy the blog and the commentary. Yes, happyfeet has a quick wit and great sense of humor and some intelligent commentary but I’m in law enforcement and I don’t get the humor in throwing out word associations like that repeatedly, even in a joke. They do have an effect and I think it minimizes pedophilia and libels someone innocent of any such thing. I guess I’m old fashioned even though I’m not old….well according to some people.

    Brett (5f9a26)

  63. Anyway, this is reminding me why I don’t have time to get involved in discussions here. Thanks for the reasoned responses to those who enlightened me.

    Brett (5f9a26)

  64. Cain has to raise money commensurate with his standing in the polls and I don’t think he has done that yet. He seems like a pretty decent fellow, though.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  65. Huntsman and Santorum will be out soon, never getting more than 2% despite their continuous debate presence. Huntsman even gets media BJs and still he gets nowhere.

    Bachmann’s vaccine gaffe may be unrecoverable — it cost her more than half her support. Perry is on the wrong side of a parabola. Come Iowa they may both be gone.

    Cain I cannot fathom. Do not understand his support, and cannot picture him as President. He seems simplistic, yet he’s made a pile of money from nothing, so what do I know? He harmed himself badly in the last debate, saved only by the obscurity of Bloomburg.

    Paul will be in it until he needs to attend to his Congressional seat. I don’t think the party is so crazy as to propose Paul for President, though. Maybe he’ll be the new Fed Chairman….

    Which leaves Romney and, wait, is that Newt I see rising in the polls? Given a choice, who do you distrust more?

    Kevin M (4eb9c8)

  66. Col

    When you are pulling away in the polls you dont need money just election day

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  67. 70% are undecided on a candidate… not tied to one so strongly that they rule out the possibility of voting for another candidate. There’s a long, long way to go.

    As you’ve seen with Perry… what is strong for a bit can turn as flat as an uncapped, two week old bottle of root beer when exposed to the elements.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  68. Anyone who thinks that Rick Perry reminds them of George W. Bush must think that Herman Cain reminds them of Louis Armstrong, or Mitt Romney reminds them of Ted Kennedy. Hell, they don’t even sound alike, much less act alike. Or is it just that whole “all Texans look alike” thing?

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  69. I distrust Obama the mostestiss.

    My Bowels Hurt (8d652e)

  70. What Romney has learned to do, in his almost five years of campaigning for POTUS, is to dodge a question.

    Interviewer: Governor Romney, what do you think about X?

    Romney: Well, I’m not sure about X, but here’s how I feel about Y and Z. My ideas about Y and Z are superior to X because my record in a blue state shows that Y and Z are, in themselves, superior to X.

    Romney doesn’t answer questions, he obfuscates. He wants you to look at the curtain, not the man behind it. He is running from his one term as governor, and running on his financial career. Why? Because if people look at his governing record, he’s going to lose as big as he did last time.

    As to Cain; fine man, admirable personal history. But I saw what happened when voters in 2008 put their faith into an unknown. How is “hope” placed on Herman Cain, who has no record of governing, any different than the “hope” that the Democrats placed on a less than one term senator? It’s not.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  71. For what it’s worth…

    Results from Rasmussen poll released today of likely GOP primary voters: Herman Cain and Mitt Romney (29 percent), Newt Gingrich (10 percent), Rick Perry (9 percent), Ron Paul (5 percent), Michele Bachmann (4 percent), Rick Santorum and Jon Huntsman (2 percent).

    Fifty-one percent think that Romney will ultimately win the nomination. Seventeen percent and 13 percent think Cain and Perry respectively will win.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/280066/romney-cain-tied-katrina-trinko

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  72. re: comment #72… here’s the link to the man who apparently has retire05 sitting on his lap, striking a very wooden pose: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/280065/more-matters-mitt-michael-walsh

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  73. Romney needs to show he has the ability to inspire people, connect with them on a personal level much better than he has to this point. Time will tell if he’s able to do that.

    It’s obvious that he and Newt Gingrich are the two most intelligent people on the stage at each debate.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  74. Lay off the wacky tobaccy.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  75. pull that cuke out yer backside, doh.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  76. Carter was the most educated President

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  77. I see with post #37, Dustin still has his panties in a bunch. Keep your chins up, Bud!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  78. Wrong again, Johnson. That title goes to Woodrow Wilson.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  79. Epwj – source for your claim that Romney claimed to be a Dem? I have asked at least 10 times. Very nicely.

    JD (318f81)

  80. No, he claimed he was an independent, in the debate with Kennedy, that didn ‘t stop them from running him over with the Oldsmobile of lies,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  81. PERRYWIFE: Rick Perry ‘brutalized’ by media, GOP because of faith: http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/10/anita-perry-husband-rick-perry.html

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  82. Romneywife-Romney brutalized by babies with lollipops because he is a mormon.

    And I think Perry is being brutalized because of his heartless attack.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  83. Cuke 9 biden 0

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  84. Col

    Carters degree in Nuclear Physics trumps

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  85. What about Cain? He is beginning to surge.

    Comment by Brett — 10/13/2011 @ 3:19 pm

    I like him too. He’s not perfect, but like I said, we all have to compromise in order to rally behind anyone who can beat the RINO candidate the democrats hope we nominate.

    I just watched Cain on CNN discuss his 999 plan in more detail than I had before. There are two aspects I don’t like. The protectionist aspect (you don’t pay the VAT when you use US materials) and the VAT itself. What I like about Cain is that he is outspoken against entitlements. What I don’t like is that he’s inexperienced and occasionally is apparently not 100% knowledgable.

    But only a moron elects the guy who looks smartest. Usually he is not the smartest guy, but rather the guy with no substance who has the best act. George Clooney looks like a freaking savant if he reads the right script.

    If Cain is the nominee, I have some concerns for his electability. The press is brutal on republicans. But all these guys have gaffes.

    Romney used to say “Tar Baby” and talk about hanging Obama as a metaphor, and he said Asia was a country. They all make gaffes, and the press will have a field day with any GOP nominee because he will invariably be a human being.

    I see with post #37, Dustin still has his panties in a bunch. Keep your chins up, Bud!

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/13/2011 @ 5:23 pm

    You and your pal have very little to offer but personal insults. You really should work on improving your maturity level if you’re interested in being persuasive. Since I do not want you to actually be persuasive, by all means ignore me on this, but I actually would like to argue about Romney with someone who understands good faith.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  86. Slow statism! More government! State health care! More mindless war! More spending! More medicare!Country clubbers rejoicing with noncaffienated nonalcoholic beverages!

    Up with people! Happytalk nonsense from a layoff spoiled rich kid!Yeah!

    No thanks. Better we have the real socialist that socialist lite. Do we EVER get to vote for a real conservative? Pining for the next Reagan is a little pathetic, until you grasp we have had nothing but GOP statist lite hacks since the day he went home. And Romneycare is going to be a milestone when it comes to the contrast vs. Obama, if it’s a contrast at all.

    Bugg (ea1809)

  87. After all, the basic knocks on Romney are well-known: He’s a RINO and inveterate flip-flopper.

    Mitt “The obsolete man” Romney not a RINO. He is a true-blue republican.

    It is the RINOpublican party which is RINO. As long as Marxists run the RINOpublican party, we have a one party system.

    BK (cb5f34)

  88. Devastating piece on Mrs. Perry on NBC Nightly News tonight. She makes the Church Lady seem not so unreasonable. Mrs. Perry for First Lady? God help us all.

    Wesson (f71878)

  89. Devastating piece on Mrs. Perry on NBC Nightly News tonight. She makes the Church Lady seem not so unreasonable. Mrs. Perry for First Lady? God help us all.

    Comment by Wesson — 10/13/2011 @ 6:55 pm

    Yeah, that was kinda a shame. If you watch her entire speech, she actually sounds very smart and classy. In fact, I think she would be a great first lady. But she definitely dropped a few stupid comments.

    Nobody wants a whiny victim. If she isn’t ready for people to bash her for being a southern Christian, she isn’t ready for the hostility of a presidential election. It’s only going to get worse.

    I suggest folks ignore the MSM’s headlines and snippets and watch the whole thing, though.

    BTW, let’s remember that Ms Romney actually donated money to planned parenthood, which means she killed the unborn. And Mitt Romney cried victim because Perry was supported by that guy who disses Mormons.

    Anyway, I don’t know who is advising Perry to send his wife out there, or if she was just improperly prepared for that, but no one wants to hear that kind of whining from any of them.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  90. Wesson,

    that she prays and goes to church…

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  91. You and your pal have very little to offer but personal insults. You really should work on improving your maturity level if you’re interested in being persuasive. Since I do not want you to actually be persuasive, by all means ignore me on this, but I actually would like to argue about Romney with someone who understands good faith.

    Comment by Dustin — 10/13/2011

    You’ve poisoned that well. You’ve been shown to be nothing more than a cheerleader (like your favorite candidate) with a penchant for half-truths and disinformation. Your Texan seems to have flamed out and has done so in record time. Don’t let it bother you so much.

    Re-animation or zombiefication may lie just around the corner.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  92. Nothing wrong with Elvira Perry standing up for – and by – her man. Good for her.

    Now if she would just stop that incessant consumption of alcohol.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  93. Nothing wrong with Sweetie Romney standing by her man.

    Now if she’d just stop doing the weed.

    You romney shill have a penchant for half-truths asshattery and inaccuracy.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  94. 77. “It’s obvious that [Romney] and Newt Gingrich are the two most intelligent people on the stage”

    No sale. What’s obvious is none of the rest are in Newt’s league in that department.

    There isn’t a standard deviation between any of the remainder. While he was near the top of his class in business at Harvard, Mitt was only top third in Law.

    He’s easily the most polished, we’ll give you that. He’s had two Op-Eds since Obamanation, one on the Czech-Polish Anti-Missile Treaty Dead Meat scrubbed, and the second on Urkel’s economic policy.

    I’ve got a niece who’s an intern at Heritage with a couple of pieces out on China that are more insightful, well researched and written.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  95. just put the cuke down and slowly back away from said cuke, biden… er, do it quickly. Slowly would probably just thrill a guy like you.

    And backing away in this case means you take several steps forward. Thank you.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  96. We keep hearing from Romney because he made a butt-load as a private investment guru, with his own stake doubtless, that he stands apart.

    Heck, as Karl pointed out, his proposals are just Republican boilerplate. Laffer says Cain’s Tax Plan beats what we have. Boortz loves Bachmann’s Flat Tax. Kudlow and WSJ creamed all over Huntsman’s plan.

    POTUS can hire the economic team, we need some adequacy in Finance, Foreign Policy and the Military.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  97. Hey you said Perry’s wife is a drunken c*nt.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  98. Nothing wrong with Elvira Perry standing up for – and by – her man. Good for her.

    Now if she would just stop that incessant consumption of alcohol.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/13/2011 @ 7:15 pm

    I remember it was only a week or two ago that you were really upset anyone would take the low road in criticizing Romney.

    For example, Romney volunteered to evangelize Mormonism as an adult man, even though at the time, the Mormon religion practiced bigotry against blacks. I defended Romney from this charge because Romney was just following his family tradition, and Mormons had overcome thinking black skin was God’s curse for some kind of sinfulness. You explained that blacks used to not be allowed to be some kind of clergy (I don’t recall your term), and you were happy this was no longer the case. I don’t recall if you were explaining this as a Mormon (it hadn’t occurred to me until now that you may be a Mormon, not that this matters), but we agreed that the debate should be on policies and experience and other topics like that.

    I also recall you expressing your pity for anyone who would hit a candidate below the belt on that sort of thing.

    But here you go, insulting Perry for his wife, smearing her as a drunk.

    What happened to you, man? You used to be a really decent person in your commentary. I repeatedly noted I respect you for your Romney support despite not agreeing.

    Now you just dismiss every fact I cite as a lie, but we both know better.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  99. 88. Eric, Carter did a couple of years at Georgia Tech and was fast-tracked thru Annapolis after the hostilities ended in WWII to a commission.

    The training as nuclear ‘engineer’ was in preparation to man one of the first two nuclear subs. He resigned his commission as a Lieutenant, i.e., he was passed over for promotion and had little option but to bug out.

    His use of the term is fraudulent in the sense that he intended you to be mislead.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  100. But that moron had the audacity to accuse me of smearing Romney.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  101. gary

    wht we need is someone who can say no and doesnt give a crap what people think of him

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  102. wht we need is someone who can say no and doesnt give a crap what people think of him

    Comment by EricPWJohnson — 10/13/2011 @ 7:43 pm

    Amen.

    That’s why I strongly like Perry and Cain, and give Perry an edge for experience though Cain really is a breath of fresh air.

    The both make gaffes, but even when I disagree with them, they basically amount to each man standing up for his core beliefs instead of crumbling and flip flopping.

    Would either of these men swear on bended knee to support abortion, just to win a damn election? Hell no.

    I really like Newt, too, though for entirely different reasons. I don’t like that Newt is a warmist like Romney. We don’t need cap and tax leadership.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  103. 92. “God help us all.”

    Hasn’t Pat Robertson said Urkel and First Wookie are evidence of God’s judgement meted out on immoral Amerikkka?

    Maybe I’m thining of the Haitian earthquake, or the Indonesian tsunami?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  104. But that moron had the audacity to accuse me of smearing Romney.

    Comment by DohBiden — 10/13/2011 @ 7:43 pm

    Don’t confuse his arguments for his actual abilities. I also called him a moron, but I regret that because I was just letting him get under my skin for the deliberately stupid level of his arguments.

    He wants to troll, but I doubt he’s a stupid person. In fact, most Romney fans are smart people who just don’t care what it costs, ideologically, to oust Obama. They literally care only about the fact Romney polls better than Obama in head to head contests right now.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  105. gary he has a degree in physics, the physics curriculums were more intense in the 40 50, 60′s than they are today.

    He is widely considered by far to be the most educated president – and the point is that a high education is no measure of success

    Carter also was an extremely brave and resourceful naval officer and was considered the highest practicing nuclear engineer and led a team to shut down what is rumored to be a runaway reactor – the only person to do so successsfully

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  106. 104. Inbred prosimian would be my diagnosis.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  107. Eric, whether Carter really was brilliant or not, I think you and Gary both agree that Carter was presented as though he was really damn smart.

    But apparently the guys presented as really damn smart wind up trying to run our lives via the federal government, and it turns into a big mess. We still are paying the price for Carter. If Iran nukes Tel Aviv or Los Angeles, that will be Jimmy Carter’s fault in part. I really mean that.

    All these guys are smart, but only some can convey themselves as smart on TV. That’s a completely different skill-set. I wish we carried out debates in a less dramatic fashion. I think JFK’s election signaled a fundamental change in seriousness as a country.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  108. dustin,

    Carter was brave, hard working, faithful, a genius, failed miserably as a president and managed to do even worse after- so long resumes impress me – not that much anymore

    actions do though

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  109. Yep, Eric.

    Actions speak a lot louder than resumes to me as well. There aren’t many candidates who have a long resume reflecting conservative leadership, and it’s sad that this doesn’t appear to be as impressive as, say, their performance in a gameshow format debate.

    It is what it is, but I think this is a symptom of a deep rot in the GOP. What incentive are we creating for politicians to serve in office for long periods of time, win reelection, and govern with balanced budgets? Very little, I think. It seems it’s a better plan to just run for President with as little record in government as possible, and make up for that with lots of promises.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  110. 109. A BS in three years, that is all. Look it up.

    I have multiple degrees including about 40 credits in pure and applied physics. The nuclear physics necessary for naval officers was training he started after entry into the inaugural nuclear sub program, at the beginning of the 50′s.

    The Quantum ChromoDynamic theory of nuclear interaction did not exist until the early 60′s developed by Murray-Gellman at CalTech.

    I also have a degree in Computer Science with a Math minor so I say Cain is at least as smart, natively, as Romney could possibly be.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  111. dustin,

    the only debate is one where they can question each other, not charlie rose quivering with liberal froth spraying all the participant with specks and flecks of loathing laden spittle

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  112. ^ that wasn’t intended as a criticism of Cain, btw.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  113. Facts, not in evidence, he ‘threw the Shah under the bus’ then isolated the Zia regime, and then
    ended up brokering the deal, that ended up with
    the ISI picking their favored groups in the Mujahadeen, ultimately sowing the seeds for AQ and the Taliban,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  114. I also have a degree in Computer Science with a Math minor so I say Cain is at least as smart, natively, as Romney could possibly be.

    Comment by gary gulrud

    But Romney has a law degree from Harrrrvaaarddd! Anyone who has one of those must be really smart and a great president.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  115. gary,

    go to washingon, sit in on a session of congress – then, try not to cut your throat the rest of the day.

    they are that stupid, ryan – is a total moron, a intellectual boob, and eveyone thinks he’s the one with the learnin, Ryan means well, but the problem is too much yes and too little no

    nothing more

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  116. You think Carter’s a genius, but Ryan is a boob, the
    mind boggles, except for your ability to get practically everything wrong,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  117. 119. Ooooh, Beldar is going to be gunning for you, naughty boy.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  118. Paul Ryan should be the heart and soul of the GOP.

    If he jumped into the race tomorrow, he would probably poll at 8% or something terrible like that.

    Am I mistaken?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  119. Tenant farmers are the smartest folks around.

    Idiocracy.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  120. I also have a degree in Computer Science with a Math minor so I say Cain is at least as smart, natively, as Romney could possibly be.

    Comment by gary gulrud

    Cain could just be, but your comments place you in a special class, gulrud.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  121. 122. Not in my book you’re not. I lived a district or two away when he was elected at 28. Until the end of Bush’s last term I don’t know anyone with their eye on him. PolySci and Econ majors I think. Did marketing for family firm.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  122. 124. Full disclosure: In CPTS, Math and Physics I went basically As, Bs, and Cs in order of discipline.

    Eric’s correct, to do the last you have to be able to do the first two. I only have for any degree a ‘Physics Concentration’, i.e., not a Minor.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  123. Tenant farmers are the smartest folks around.

    Idiocracy.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/13/2011 @ 8:24 pm

    Wow.

    What happened to you, man? You have such contempt for Texas and the south generally. Farming is, in fact, a science. Texas feeds the entire world, and we’re proud to be so productive. Under Perry, Texas’s agricultural exports are higher than all other states. In fact, Perry was our commish of ag before being the LT Gov, representing farmers and also making agreements and selling the virtues of our agriculture to asians and europeans. He made serious inroads with Israel, selling our goods there too.

    You sneer at that like it’s idiotic? It’s great. We need more producers and fewer lawyers like Romney, who hides his legal background like it’s a deep dark secret (I wonder how many people even know he went to Harvard Law).

    You want to say Perry returning to his family farm and succeeding from such humble roots to being our governor is idiotic compared to Romney being born to a millionarre political dynasty and getting into Harvard Law? Seriously?

    We have seen these elites run the economy into the ground. They simply have no idea what the hell they are doing. They believe they are smarter than the rest of America, but they don’t even have common sense.

    Exhibit A: Romneycare. Common sense Americans said it would lose billions and lead to death panels. And they were right. It’s lost many billions, some paid for by federal bailout, and now they are going to ration healthcare to try to make ends meet.

    We don’t need that kind of genius leadership.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  124. Elvira Pigpen Perry is not unduly fond of alcohol, but much of her $60,000-a-year salary at an Austin nonprofit comes indirectly from Gov. Rick Perry’s political donors, state contractors and companies that do business with the state or have issues before the Legislature.

    State teat, once removed.

    http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdVzErJdOdlwA7mJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1MGZuNW9hBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01TWTAwOF8xNjU-/SIG=151qdpte4/EXP=1318591812/**http%3a//www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/anita-perrys-salary-comes-indirectly-from-governors-backers-1856646.html%3fviewAsSinglePage=true

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  125. Your a classless dunce.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  126. Cuke 11, biden O

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  127. Carter is the smartest bravest EVAH and Paul Ryan is a total moron? Good Allah.

    JD (6d8a47)

  128. re: post #127… perhaps you could blow some of that energy into the listless Perry, Cap’n Pom Pom.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  129. You want to say Perry returning to his family farm and succeeding from such humble roots to being our governor is idiotic compared to Romney being born to a millionarre political dynasty

    Dynasty of One, lol. I bet Perry wouldn’t misspell “millionaire”… cuz he’s sooo dreamy.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  130. Elvira Pigpen Perry is not unduly fond of alcohol,

    Mitt Romney’s wife donated to Planned Parenthood at an Abortion Right’s fundraiser in full knowledge that she was helping subsidize abortion. Mitt Romney attended because despite being a devout Mormon, he was willing to bend his knee and kiss the ass of abortionists in order to win the MA governorship.

    I think Rick Perry’s wife is a great lady, and those who watch the full video will like her, but wince at her complaining about people treating her husband poorly. No one likes a victim, and she needs to toughen up.

    State teat, once removed.

    No. People donating to charity is the opposite of government subsidies like Romneycare.

    I’m not surprised that people who like the Perry family and support their causes also donated to Perry for governor. Who cares?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  131. Dynasty of One, lol. I bet Perry wouldn’t misspell “millionaire”… cuz he’s sooo dreamy.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    You’re whining that I made a spelling typo? That’s the point you’re at now? I make an average of three per comment. Get over it.

    BTW, both of Romney’s parents ran for high office.

    And yes, Romney would likely be a used car salesman if his daddy hadn’t been a pro union governor in the Nixon administration, with strong ties to the Bush dynasty.

    I don’t harbor any resentment there. But you treating Perry’s humble roots on a farm against him seems strange. I think Perry made it farther in politics than Romney has, and he started out as a door to door salesman selling books while farming, and just happened to know everyone in his district so he ran for state rep.

    There’s nothing shameful about that. I don’t know why you would sneer at his roots like that.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  132. Perry whiners and romney whiners need to go jump off a cliff.

    Reality-932,134 ColonelButtmunch-negative 750,038,190

    DohBiden (d54602)

  133. 134. George was President of American Motors. When Mitt joined Bain it was a consultancy. His contribution was to turn it into a private investment firm.

    Bet that included 1. having money to invest, 2. having connections to moneyed investors.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  134. The day I show empathy to anita Perry is the day ColonelHaiku pulls his head out of Romneys ass.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  135. 139. At my house I’m never the smartest one in the room unless its just me and the cats–one is dumb as dirt.

    Got a feeling Haiku is bitter about them crafty farm animals.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  136. No he is just butthurt that his lover Mitt Romney is getting buttscrewed and he ain’t doing it.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  137. I don’t like that Newt is a warmist like Romney. We don’t need cap and tax leadership.

    Yeah, but Newt’s solution would be market-based, and he’d listen to the idea of nuclear. Romney would poll it and find it wanting.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  138. _____________________________________________

    He’s a RINO

    That’s a given. What’s important — and sad — is that at this moment in America’s history, we all have to accept and take blame for what I describe as decades worth of do-gooderism and compassion, and supposed modern-day sophistication, run amok.

    I observed a small slice of that in a thread here a few weeks ago on the controversy of the military abolishing “don’t ask, don’t tell.” Yea, that issue dealt with the social-cultural side of the political arena, not the economic one—and since we’re in a big recession, “it’s the economy, stupid!” But what I noticed in that discussion can be applied to the bigger picture — economics included — meaning to our society in general.

    IOW, a variety of people who are non-liberal, if not mostly conservative, can quickly find themselves seeding the type of environment symbolized by the US Army, Nidal Hasan and Fort Hood. I’m referring to how even in the context of no less than the US military (presumably not a bastion of liberalism and ACLUism off the deep end), a known fanatic was able to get away with murder — literally — due to the excessive nature of political correctness in the 21st century.

    If anyone ponders all the squishiness in Romney, along with what screws up Perry and probably Cain too, keep in mind they’re a reflection of perhaps you yourself, or me, or your spouse, your SO, your mother, your father, your siblings, your cousins, your uncles or aunts, or your friend(s), or your co-worker(s), your boss, your neighbor, etc.

    Liberal biases are an innate part of the human condition, and we better not pretend it’s a symptom that affects only a small percentage of the population.

    BTW, the owner of this website — who I do respect — has said he accepts the concept of same-sex marriage and was very squishy about a recent proposition on the California ballot that would restrict the state’s government from fighting “GLOBAL WARMING!!” That proposition, incidentally, was defeated by a majority of voters in this wonderful, humane, sophisticated, worldly, beautiful, sensible, generous state.

    I point out the unpredictability of Patterico not to snipe at him but because he pretty much reflects the unpredictability of just about all of us. That’s why I say we’re ALL guilty of the way this society has moved during the past few generations. Most crucially, I see how liberal bias has dominated the history of nations like France, Mexico, Greece, Argentina, Venezuela, Brazil, Britain, Canada, Scandinavian society, urban America, Blue-state America, and, again, I say that’s a symptom (a regrettable one in the context of the Western/industrialized world of the 21st century) of the human species.

    Mark (411533)

  139. By all accounts Nixon was the smartest person to be President in living memory. “First class mind.” Just goes to show you that smarts aren’t everything.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  140. Bet that included 1. having money to invest, 2. having connections to moneyed investors.

    Comment by gary gulrud — 10/13/2011 @ 8:54 pm

    Absolutely. And those investors were almost certainly due to George Romney’s enormous ability to raise money from Mormons. In fact, Bain was run by many folks who went to a school that named a building after George.

    Which is no biggie. I give Mitt a lot of credit for Bain. The dude knows how to make money. He laid people off and outsourced. I was in Staples today, and couldn’t find a damn thing that wasn’t made in China or Sweden.

    That’s fine. Mitt’s job was to make money, and he was under no obligation to go out of his way for this country.

    There’s a reason Mitt doesn’t talk too much about Bain. As great as the bottom line continues to be, I don’t think Americans want to vote for the guys who laid off their families. I’m not a protectionist sort of guy, but Perry spent his time making Americans wealthier, lobbying for the farmers in Texas to export their goods. Romney did the opposite, making himself wealthier with goods imported from China and outsourcing. Good for him, but which guy is devoted to this country?

    To his credit, Romney cut all the fat out of failing companies and that is indeed something worth appreciating, and a bona fide credential for being President. I admire the success of Staples, which proudly serves many departments of the Chinese government (source) Staples was a joint venture with Chinese company ‘Office Automation 365′, which is a classic Asian high tech success story that China is justifiably proud of.

    Other Bain successes include tripling its investment in GOME Electronics,
    a great Chinese company. Gome proudly gives free LCD tvs to the Chinese Army’s Tien amen Square detachment as an example of Social Responsibility.

    When you think of US outsourcing of production to China, you really should think of Bain, in their words “the first foreign strategy firm in Beijing.” Bain China is here to stay, saying “We are committed to be here to help business leaders solve their issues and explore further profitable growth opportunities.” They help Chinese manufacturing in 30 industries among 40 companies.

    That’s great news for American workers. Well, no, not really. Maybe Haiku’s platform of sneering at humble American farmers has some kind of deeper meaning?

    Romney got rich it at a direct cost to American jobs. In his defense, if you don’t do anything you can to increase profits, you can’t compete effectively and have no business running an investment firm. I think Mitt could be a tremendously insightful advisor in a Cain or Perry administration. But I don’t think he should be the top dog because if it’s time to make that hard call, he’s going to crumble.

    Let’s consider the attacks Obama will make to Romney should he be the nominee. Romney is the smart and ruthless man who does what needs to be done to win. He is not the selfless patriot to does what he knows is right.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  141. Yeah, but Newt’s solution would be market-based, and he’d listen to the idea of nuclear. Romney would poll it and find it wanting.

    Comment by Kevin M — 10/13/2011 @ 9:28 pm

    Thank you for making this distinction, because I feel I was unfair to Newt but wasn’t sure how to convey it.

    Newt can be reasoned with, and I do think his solution to global warming would be something like nuclear energy. I think Mitt’s warmist tendencies are simply ruthlessly choosing positions to position himself dead center, because that’s where poli sci professors say most of the votes are. Romney is investing for max votes, not actually leading.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  142. 145. Heard that too. Kissinger maybe.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  143. Nixon was such a bad president. I know he made that recovery in the 1980s, but I really wish he had never been president.

    There are so many problems today because of that man. His administration is where the corn subsidy came from, and is why corn syrup is in every freaking thing. In fact, it was during his administration that American weight levels began the great mysterious upward trend, which I associate largely with Nixon’s initiative to make food prices stable (by making food prices closely tied to corn, which price is artificially stabilized by the federal government). It’s a classic example of the government trying to control something it has no business paying attention to, with unintended consequences.

    Nixon also, of course, made decisions that greatly worsened the entitlement problem.

    In his defense, LBJ.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  144. 146. I think I’d be beating that narrative like a rented mule.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  145. I don’t really think it’s Romney’s fault for the way he did business.

    Everything he did was legal. He has to pursue max profitability. That is his duty.

    Frankly, I do resent China making so much money trading crap for American dollars, but this is something that American consumers choose over higher priced goods. They have decided, not Romney, who would have probably sold more USA made stuff if that was what consumers were buying.

    But this is the way Obama will Palinize Romney. The media will be joking about Red States as a double entendre.

    Perry can also be easily palinized, but mainly in the terms Haiku used above, calling him an idiot tenant farmer and dissing his wife for getting her feeling hurt when people insult her husband.

    I think Perry’s retort is simple, which is annoying to high info voters, but a real advantage when he needs to convince the majority of Americans that he will improve their lives.

    Cain, finally, has excellent potential if you think cynically about how the hard left can’t resist being racist against a black conservative, and how they will try to call him dumb. I think such attempts would backfire so badly.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  146. Oh, and let me just express a moment of great disappointment that Mitch Daniels didn’t run. I think had Palin not been hinting extremely strongly she was running, the demonization of Mitch among Tea Partiers wouldn’t have occurred, though I don’t know if would have run anyway.

    The establishment backing Romney doesn’t necessarily mind a conservative, but they need a conservative they feel they can win a general election with, which naturally means they prefer a centrist who can fight for all the moderate and liberal votes.

    On the other hand, Mitch isn’t a man of pizzazz any more than Perry is. He’s a man of results. I guess he would be languishing where Perry is (I don’t think Perry would have even run had Mitch run).

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  147. 152. There never should have been a hope for Daniels and Cheri with the misogyny Palin and Bachmann had already received.

    Utterly irresponsible to let the talk of run get started.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  148. Let’s see… a $150 donation vs. several hundred thousand dollars to Elvira Thigpen Perry which, as the Austin American-Statesman noted, comes indirectly from the governor’s “political donors, state contractors, and companies that do business with the state or have issues before the legislature”.

    Of 37 major donors to the non-profit org Mrs. Perry works for, the paper reported, only three have “no ties to the governor or state business.”

    Massive conflict of interest, Texas-style.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  149. 151. Ah, but talk of turning his expertise, such as it is, into magic for this economy is vapor.

    Might just as well talk up Bernanke for debasing the currency to make us purchase parity competitive with the Chinese peasant.

    I have absolutely nothing against raising the standard of living worldwide but any kid with a lemonade stand can do better than Urkel.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  150. Mitt Romney is a Populist-Leaning Conservative.

    Rick Perry is a Hard-Core Conservative.

    Michele Bachmann is a Libertarian-Leaning Conservative.

    Herman Cain is a Hard-Core Conservative.

    Rick Santorum is a Hard-Core Conservative.

    Newt Gingrich is a Hard-Core Conservative.

    Jon “Oh, Huntsman” Huntsman is a Centrist.

    http://www.ontheissues.org/governor/Rick_Perry_Immigration.htm

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  151. Hugh Hewitt writes…

    “Over at InTrade this morning, where the money and the bets are real, Romney remains a rising, prohibitive favorite with a 66% probability of being the nominee, with Rick Perry in second place slightly above 10%, and Herman Cain in third place at just under 10%. This market gets the reality here: Governor Perry has money, but no plan; Herman Cain has a plan, but no money. (And 9-9-9 and Team Cain is taking fire from Rick Santorum who knows his path to the new #2.) The Washington Post used the “i” word this morning, which is the second inside-the-Beltway spotting in two days of this most ought-after word in race.

    The pro-Obama MSM and various backers of various “not Romneys” are pushing the meme that Romney has a ceiling and that the GOP won’t rally to him. As an ardent McCain opponent in 2008 who threw in the moment it was over, this is bosh. The nominee –Romney, Perry, Cain or Santorum– will get the enthusiastic support of a country exhausted by Obama’s first term and terrified of a second.

    Best clue of them all: Axelord, Prince of the Chicagolands, declares that Mitt Romney is “a hypocrite, an ideological shape-shifter, lapsed pro-choice moderate, political cyborg and the man ‘carrying [Herbert] Hoover’s tattered banner.’”

    More than a year from the voting…how desperate is Axe alone with his numbers, watching his creation crumble under the weight of office, a president increasingly spurned by his own party and unmasked as hopelessly in over his head and reverting in real time to the Alinskyite organizer that was the foundation for his dream.”

    http://www.hughhewitt.com/blog/g/d2341aaa-3261-4e6e-8960-0a198e569442

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  152. “Three-Way Hot Tub Lutherans For Perry”

    ‘Step forward, Miss Sarah Leal, last seen naked in a hot tub with Ashton Kutcher and another young lady:

    After they had sex for the first time, the two made small talk, discussing where she grew up and when her birthday was. She also told him that she was religious — a Lutheran from Texas.

    “He said, ‘Oh, my gosh, are you a Republican?’ I was like, ‘What, do you like Obama?’ He said ‘Yeah,’ and asked if I could name any up-and-coming candidates. I said Rick Perry.”

    Then they had sex again.

    I’m broadly sympathetic to Jonah’s thesis, but I do hope we won’t all have to have three-ways in a hot tub with Ashton Kutcher to play against stereotype.’

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/280108/three-way-hot-tub-lutherans-perry-mark-steyn

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  153. i agree with you Karl. i think the only reason any conservative human would vote for Romney is because they think that Romney can beat Obama.
    But what if he cant?

    A clear majority (68 percent) of Americans say they would not be more or less likely to vote for a presidential candidate if that candidate was Mormon. However, a quarter (25 percent) say they would be less likely to vote for a Mormon candidate while only five percent say they would be more likely.
    A further breakdown of these responses shows limited variation based on party affiliation. Democrats show the greatest negative response with 31 percent saying they would be less likely to support a Mormon, while Republicans and Independents fall at 23 percent and 20 percent respectively.

    that means–
    (31% x 25% of democrats) + (23% x 25% of independents) + (20% x 25% of republicans) ~= 8% of all democrats + 6% of all republicans + 5% of all independents.
    We can discard the democrat vote because they wont vote for mitt anyways.
    Now the GOP needs 65% of the white vote to win if blacks and hispanics vote for O in the same percentages as 2008.
    McCain got 55 of the white vote and Obama got 43% and McCain lost. Ronald Reagan won with 60%.
    But no candidate has ever gotten higher than that.

    A greater distinction is revealed when respondents are sorted by their own religious affiliation. The greatest rate of negative response comes from white evangelicals with 34 percent saying they would be less likely to support a candidate who was Mormon. Meanwhile, only 16 percent of white Catholics say the same.
    These response trends are confirmed when applied to former Governor of Massachusetts Mitt Romney. Of those voters saying that they would be less likely to vote for a Mormon candidate, 63 percent say there would be no chance that would vote for Romney.

    so that is 63% of the 11% percent that said they would be less likely. That is roughly 7% of the white vote.
    Traditionally a third of the white vote goes to dems, carter to obama.
    so 33% plus 7% is 40%. Romney even if he gets the same percentage of the white vote as Reagan.

    wheeler's cat (e07004)

  154. Romney LOSES even if he gets 60%.

    wheeler's cat (e07004)

  155. so i guess feets was right.
    Perry is the best you have got.

    wheeler's cat (e07004)

  156. 157. Day Traders this week are sending Stocks higher because they see the euro going higher raising the value of US Stocks as a buy. The euro will crash eventually, european banks are selling assets today for cash, the Greeks may still not get their $8 Billion and default next week, etc.

    But there’s money to be made today.

    Remember Mike Castle.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  157. You get more and more crass Colonel.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  158. There never should have been a hope for Daniels and Cheri with the misogyny Palin and Bachmann had already received.

    You have a point, Gary. You have a great point. My wish for a Daniels run probably overlooks some serious realities about how trashy folks deal with personal matters and any hint of a sex scandal if they don’t like the candidate’s politics.

    I mean, just look at Haiku’s latest. And he’s telling me he doesn’t care if he has my respect as though that’s not already obvious if he’s going to promote Romney and bash Perry from the gutter.

    These Romney shills are the trashiest people in the GOP.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  159. 161. “These Romney shills are the trashiest people in the GOP”

    And it’s because they practice a ‘righteousness’ religion.

    Credo: I can be acceptable to god of my own volition thru vigilance.

    Christianity has its own practitioners, as I’m certain you are aware, Islam is strongly so, only some of the nominal Muslims depart from the creed.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  160. Gary, I know you recall Haiku telling you to pray and see if you really want to criticize Mormons because he thinks hitting Romney on personal matters like that is wrong. He went on and on about it, and sounded like a really nice and mild Christian who just wants to honor God with his own arguments.

    Now he’s talking about “Elvira Thigpen Perry” and making up nonsense about orgies?

    The thing that makes this sick is his judgmental attitude and bible thumping were lies. He doesn’t actually have those standards. He was actually using them to shill in yet another way.

    Every time I mention a fact about Romney they don’t like, they call it a lie while lying about it. Every time I ask them to back it up, they refuse with some lame excuse, or backtrack, or just lie. Haiku has relentlessly spammed several threads with trash links.

    This thread is about Romney, but he’s spamming articles about Lutherans having orgies? In fact, how is judging Perry because of what some other protestants do any different from the specific stuff he was so outraged people were pointing out about Mormons?

    But I’ve defended Romney about that stuff because his religion is not an issue I care about. What other mormons have done is not something I think Romney has to apologize for. Even what Romney did, volunteering to spread a religion that was at that time very racist, is something I’ve excused because it was his family tradition and eventually the religion got better so I feel like being forgiving.

    My good faith is on display, and I was hoping Haiku would follow my lead so we could have an adult conversation.

    I hate to say this, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Daley and Haiku are mormons overlooking most policy issues regarding Perry and Romney because, frankly, Perry’s wife was right and they are judging these two men for their religion.

    Actually, the more I think about it, the more obvious this is. When I laid out the reason I doubt Romney’s character (the abortion flip flop, for example), Daley got very upset and explained I must be ignorant of Mormons, because if I knew that Romney went on a mission trip to france preaching Mormonism to ‘wine drinking catholics’, I wouldn’t doubt his character. This is nothing more than a religious test, and it’s also blind, not to mention weirdly hostile towards Catholics.

    If these two guys really don’t care about this country’s problems enough to look at things other than whether someone attends the right church, I think that’s very sad. Also, if Haiku meant all the preaching he had earlier given you Gary, asking you to pray about whether it’s OK to criticize Romney for being Mormon, I hope he takes a moment to apply that method to his new sleazy Perry and Lutheran bashing.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  161. Anyone who does not support for the lifelong politician who has made his state dependent on Washington is not a true conservative, patriot and hates dogs and babies.

    It is good faith to call Romney spineless, totally lacking character, never having achieved anything in his life on his own merits and to tell lies about his record but it is completely beyond the pale to ask questions about the one true American who deserves to become president in 2012.

    Americans need to have an annointed successor to Obama NOW, rather than wait for the primaries to sort the process out.

    That is all.

    daleyrocks (e56eef)

  162. 163. We all make generalizations, we all stereotype and profile for good and rational purposes, like avoiding certain neighborhoods or associating with new acquaintences. Either of these examples may be enhanced by whether our wives or children are with us.

    Worst case these prove to be bigoted characterizations of the insufficiently known quantity. But the point is sufficient information may be unattainable or unrealistically costly in our time so devoted.

    When these sorts of defenses prove incompatible with our image of our self, and drastically so, the denial begins and rage will often be employed as the defense of last resort.

    All pretension to our consistent rationality is abandoned.

    Closed, secretive societies that reveal themselves grudgingly and hang together tightly in the face of opposition ensure this result.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  163. When these sorts of defenses prove incompatible with our image of our self, and drastically so, the denial begins and rage will often be employed as the defense of last resort.

    All pretension to our consistent rationality is abandoned.

    Closed, secretive societies that reveal themselves grudgingly and hang together tightly in the face of opposition ensure this result.

    That all makes sense, but I don’t even have a problem with Mormons to start with, I don’t know how devout Romney is anyway, and I know there are some great Mormons in this country who would resent (justifiably) and effort to stereotype them.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  164. 166. Romney’s dad led a Stake for more than twenty years. Romney himself was in charge of a European mission–not being an insider I don’t know that hierarchy–but seems to have extended his missionary period for the purpose.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  165. There’s a reason Mitt doesn’t talk too much about Bain. As great as the bottom line continues to be, I don’t think Americans want to vote for the guys who laid off their families.But they’ll vote for a guy who has the balls to lay off the deadwood to keep everyone else working, over the guy that doesn’t and has the company go bust.

    I’m reminded of my LA city councilman who recently said (after coming up with a bogus city budget) that he was “proud” that there were no government workers laid off. You would think there would be deadwood.

    Kevin M (4eb9c8)

  166. Nixon was such a bad president
    The Libertarian Party was formed as a direct result of Nixon’s presidency. I think it was wage and price controls that did it.

    Kevin M (4eb9c8)

  167. Michele Bachmann is a Libertarian-Leaning Conservative.

    This is a joke, right? She’s, if anything, a theocracy-leaning conservative.

    Kevin M (4eb9c8)

  168. ” there are some great Mormons in this country who would resent (justifiably) an[] effort to stereotype them”

    Orrin Hatch is a great Mormon who has proven worthy of my regard and support. Has he earned my trust so exhaustively that it be extended to all when I’ve learned to look for a certain cognitive dissonance as customary?

    I’m not a secular humanist, why would a self-image of benevolence toward all living things be important to me?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  169. 170. “Is this a joke?”

    Yes, but we’re not sure on whom.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  170. In general, the issue that Republicans MUST make is that Obama is both incompetent and extreme, that he was unprepared, and that his policy choices do not and can not work.

    It will be much easier if we can offer a candidate whose competence and ability to take on the big job is unquestioned. I think that Perry, Romney and Gingrich are the only ones who can reasonably fill that bill. The others are untested, at best (or Ron Paul, at worst).

    Kevin M (4eb9c8)

  171. In general, the issue that Republicans MUST make is that Obama is both incompetent and extreme

    Well said.

    Some of the things Obama did were pretty unpopular when he did them, such as Obamacare. Such as a complete failure to reign in spending. Such as no budget passed for years on end.

    I think Obamacare was the point where the scales started tipping against Obama. And it’s unconstitutional, and it’s oppressive to order anyone to buy health insurance. And it loses money. And it scares employers out of investing in new employees. And on and on.

    So Gingrich and Perry obviously have a leg up on hammering Obama hard. Obama can reply to Romney by saying ‘your own advisers visited the white house a dozen times to help me create Obamacare!’

    But Romney does have a powerful veneer of intelligence and polish that would wipe the floor with stuttering Obama. I worry he would use his polish against me, so to speak, pursuing centrist positions like Arlen Specter and Lindsey Graham would. I have no confidence Romney’s superior oratory skill will actually do the country any good, unless he intends to use it to repeal Obamacare and reform entitlement spending. And clearly he doesn’t.

    Gingrich is an intriguing choice I can’t cross out. I’m glad people are supporting him because he really is the best debater. I think Romney has done well too, but largely with easy platitudes about how Obama ‘doesn’t have a clue’, which sound sophisticated when he says them but are pretty empty.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  172. But they’ll vote for a guy who has the balls to lay off the deadwood to keep everyone else working, over the guy that doesn’t and has the company go bust.

    Me too. I do not hold Romney’s bain success against him. We need that attitude in House oversight committees, cutting agencies of the fat.

    I am merely noting how Romney will be palinized as soon as he’s nominated. Mccain looked like he was the most electable guy until just after he was nominated.

    There is no denying Romney knows how to make money and lay off American workers, which is excellent if you’re investing, and not such a bad point when we look at all these US Government agencies full of public employees that probably need to be laid off because we can’t afford that right now.

    One problem is that Romney will need to be a hard conservative to lay them off, not a centrist fearing public anger.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  173. Perry has a great interview with a feisty George Stephenopolis (sp).

    He handles a lot of hard questions. This is the approach that will beat Obama in the general election. He also does a great job putting his wife’s comments in context and completely avoids the kind of victim claims I’ve heard from Romney’s camp or ‘that’s offensive’ claims from Cain.

    This is very encouraging to me. If Perry’s finally finding his voice as a candidate, hopefully he has time to pull back some support.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  174. BTW, he had several interviews and they all came across well. I’m not linking them all because that would be spammy, but generally, I think this is how Perry has to recover.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  175. Any chance that Romney would fire Jimmy Hansen and the rest of his climatelature?

    How about bringing racketeering charges against them?

    It’s not enough to just choose not to act on global warming, or to publicly acknowledge that it’s a farce, and then leave the con men in position to continue their war on civilization.

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  176. I mean, just look at Haiku’s latest. And he’s telling me he doesn’t care if he has my respect as though that’s not already obvious if he’s going to promote Romney and bash Perry from the gutter.

    These Romney shills are the trashiest people in the GOP.

    Comment by Dustin

    Re: Dustin’s post # 163… you idiot… you moron, Dustin. I post a few lines from a Mark Steyn post (complete with a link) and I’m attacking your fave from the gutter and attacking Lutherans.

    Man the eff up, cupcake.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  177. Man the eff up,cupcake

    The pot telling the kettle to man up?

    Hehehe

    DohBiden (d54602)

  178. Michele Bachmann is a Libertarian-Leaning Conservative.

    This is a joke, right? She’s, if anything, a theocracy-leaning conservative.

    Comment by Kevin M — 10/14/2011 @ 11:39 am

    Kevin M… that scoring for all of the candidates shown was provided by OnTheIssues, link included.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  179. Cuke 12 biden O

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  180. But Romney does have a powerful veneer of intelligence and polish

    Gee… according to Dustin, Romney has a thin – but powerful – layer of intelligence and polish. I wonder where that leaves Paperweight Perry?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  181. Re: your post #164, Daley… well said, sir. You’ve captured the pure essence of le Dustié.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  182. 146. I think I’d be beating that narrative like a rented mule.

    Comment by gary gulrud — 10/13/2011 @ 9:49 pm

    With useful idiots like gulrud, who needs leftwing democrats?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  183. With Big Government losers like ColonelHaiku who needs the left?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  184. You have such contempt for Texas and the south generally.

    No, Dustin, I have friends, family and many co-workers who call Texas and locations in the Old South home. I Like Texans and Southerners in general. They are usually honest, straightforward in their business dealings and wear their motivation on their sleeves.

    I just don’t care much for you, Fredo, and your Co-Cap’n Pom Pom cheerleader retire05. You are both fond of posting half-truths, outright falsehoods, or links to articles with info that isn’t even in the same ballpark as the conclusions you draw.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  185. What other mormons have done is not something I think Romney has to apologize for. Even what Romney did, volunteering to spread a religion that was at that time very racist, is something I’ve excused because it was his family tradition and eventually the religion got better so I feel like being forgiving.

    You are a Real Tool, Fredo.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  186. Dustin

    This is how is see the ups and downs of Rick

    Perry finally is talked into running

    Polls zoom up

    Then he criticizes Social Security – Panic ensues that the dems will stampede seniors to the polls losing both houses – THE THIRD RAIL AWWW

    Perry gets slammed by stupid questions about sanctuary cities (which exist everywhere except AZ) and is made personally responsible for the entire countries security – in three debates

    Perry goes down

    Money still flooding in – Cain says 9 9 9

    Cain stays and talks to crowd in Florida promising that he will do what Washington to Reagan couldnt do – totally change US Taxation

    Perry’s third right behind Romney

    Cains wheels come off the book tour bus next week

    Perry and Romney tied

    Perry keeps pushing jobs

    More commericials by 501c3′s the Texas Jobs miracle reach everyone

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  187. BTW, both of Romney’s parents ran for high office.

    Once is a coinkydink… twice is a trend DYNASTY! Impressive, sir!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  188. May the best candidate win the nomination. Much rests on defeating Obama and stemming the tide.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  189. As usual, Haiku can be directly refuted from anything he claims, simply by quoting Mitt Romney.

    Mitt visualizes a Romney dynasty “like a relay where the baton passed from generation to generation”

    By David D. Kirkpatrick
    updated 1:57 a.m. PT, Tues., Dec. 18, 2007

    WASHINGTON – George Romney had big ideas for his youngest child.

    Mitt Romney had already made millions as the founder of a giant buyout firm. But his father wanted Mitt to follow him into politics, convinced he could unseat Senator Edward M. Kennedy in Massachusetts.

    “It was Mitt’s dad that kicked us over that one,” Ann Romney, Mitt Romney’s wife, recalled of the losing 1994 Senate race. “If people understood that equation of George Romney and his impact on my life and on Mitt’s life, they wouldn’t be so curious about why Mitt is running for president. He is why Mitt is running.”

    George W. Romney made his fortune turning around the American Motors Corporation before becoming governor of Michigan, then staged a bid for the 1968 Republican presidential nomination, only to watch his hopes collapse on the eve of the first votes. Now nearing that pivotal time in this year’s race, Mitt Romney said he felt as if his own campaign to become the Republican nominee was, in a sense, an extension of his father’s.

    “Like a baton has passed, like a relay team where the baton passed from generation to generation,” Mr. Romney said in an interview. He added, “I am a shadow of the real deal.”

    Rick Perry’s dad didn’t give him tours of the Capital from heliport to heliport, introducing him to presidents and wealthy bundlers.

    That’s why Haiku mocks Perry’s roots as a farmer.

    Haiku also knows that Josh Romney is also running for Governor. Apparently the Romney name is very powerful for Mormons.

    If you have three generations of liberal Republicans becoming governors because they are all part of a famous family, I call that a dynasty.

    Should Romney Jr. appear on a ticket, his name will go a long way: His father sowed tremendous goodwill in the state by lifting the 2002 Winter Games in Salt Lake City out of debt and avoiding international embarrassment. Last year, Romney Sr. won nearly 90 percent of the vote in the Republican primary—a number unrivaled by any candidate in either party during the competitive part of the election season. And as members of the Church of Latter-day Saints, the Romneys have particular appeal in Utah. “The Romney name is very magical,” Rolly said in an interview with The Daily Beast.

    Haiku loses yet another argument.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  190. Annnd rather badly

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  191. OMG Perry wants to push granny off a cliff and steal her dentures.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  192. As Mexico moves ever northward, the American Southwest is under siege ethnically, culturally and demographically. Will this nation within a nation advance America’s civil society and the U.S. Constitution? Or will it be renamed Aztlan?

    Only an illegal immigrant rewarder/gifter like Rick Perry and La Raza know for sure.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  193. You are a Real Tool, Fredo.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    Why? Because I actually practice my principles, even when discussing someone I’m critical of, trying to be fair? And you express good principles when it’s time to be fair to Romney for aspects of Mormonism he didn’t personally create, but abandon them when talking about protestants or Perry’s wife?

    I’m a tool? I’m being completely sincere, and you know it.

    You keep complaining that absolutely true facts or mere reasonable opinions are lies. You have been asked to back up such accusations over long periods of time, promising you will get around to it ‘tomorrow’ or even backtracking all the way to admitting the facts you disputed are true, but you’re calling it a lie anyway.

    You don’t actually care that you are pushing folks away from Romney. You know he can’t get the support of conservatives. You just hope to split conservative votes by trolling up as much ugliness as possible.

    You show no grace and no respect for my efforts to keep the Romney criticism on policy disagreements. My noting the counterpart to your sleazy Perry attacks always come with an explanation why I think such attacks are unfair to Romney.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  194. Who knew Fredo was a class-warfare geek! Two family members elected to the office of Governor… Dynasty!

    Again, impressive sir. You really don’t embarrass easy, do you.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  195. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/14/2011 @ 3:27 pm

    If we, the great unwashed, cannot prevent the South-West from becoming Aztlan, then we do not deserve to have a Republic.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (436737)

  196. Don’t resort to class-warfare and moronic charges of wealthy, non-existent, political dynasties, Fredo. It makes you look like a Complete Tool.

    Just volunteer to man the phone banks for Perry… he really, really needs it.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  197. :roll: like OWS Romney does?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  198. Who knew Fredo was a class-warfare geek! Two family members elected to the office of Governor… Dynasty!

    Again, impressive sir. You really don’t embarrass easy, do you.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/14/2011 @ 3:31 pm

    Romney’s son hasn’t won his election yet. Did you actually read my link? You should be more informed.

    It’s not class warfare to appreciate that Perry worked hard and wasn’t handed everything on a silver platter. He served in uniform, while Romney supported a war and then went to france during that war.

    I appreciate Perry serving. I appreciate that Perry would be the exact same candidate without the name Perry.

    Like Mitt Romney, Josh Romney appears to be a contender for a major statewide despite having very little experience. Just that name. Perry had to work on an appropriations committee for years, then won fame as one of the top fiscal conservatives in Texas, and a great rep for farmers, then he was an excellent ag commish and then the first LT Gov, always a fiscal conservative with good results for less cost.

    It surprised no one that Perry led Texas well. But who knows what Josh Romney would be like in office.

    My dynasty objection is rooted in my gut instinct that it’s not a meritocracy. And we can see that Romney doesn’t know what to expect from himself. Is he still the guy who praises “strong gun control” and “I don’t line up with the NRA”? Is he the “Roe v Wade is good law”? Is he the architect of Obamacare?

    I don’t even think Mitt has any idea.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  199. It’s the dismal tide, AD. All one need do is see how politicians have run away from their responsibilities. We have accepted a permanent underclass of tens of millions of people who can’t care for basic needs: food, housing, clothing and will demand that America do it using our tax dollars for the entire lives.

    We don’t seem to have the will to do what is required… something as simple as enforcing our laws and closing our borders. Politicians like Rick Perry and Jerry Brown contribute to the downward spiral with their gifts to illegal immigrants.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  200. Hey… idiot… both George and Mitt were the two governors mentioned. Pay attention.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  201. Hey…………..idiot…………..Mitt has his flaws. Get your head out of your ass.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  202. It’s not class warfare to appreciate that Perry worked hard and wasn’t handed everything on a silver platter. He served in uniform, while Romney supported a war and then went to france during that war.

    No one said it was, Fredo. You seem to be green with envy of money earned through one’s own labor. Why is that, Fredo?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  203. Cuke going deep… it’s gone!

    Cuke 15 biden O

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  204. Hey… idiot… both George and Mitt were the two governors mentioned. Pay attention.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/14/2011 @ 3:41 pm

    I have no idea what you’re trying to say. We have six Romneys contending for major elections at some point. Two of Mitt’s sons, his mom, his dad, himself.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  205. I’m sorry, for sic I would have to add in Mitt’s brother Scott.

    But the Romney political dynasty goes back to 17th century.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  206. This is a dynasty.

    Now Haiku already knows this. He knows that Romney is related to dozens of politicians. All he has, when I cite a point he doesn’t want me to cite, is to call the truth a lie, or a personal insult.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  207. LOL… my father’s second cousin was married to Errol Flynn, his brother-in-law was the brother of comedian Jackie Vernon, my mother’s great-aunt was married to Jack Dempsey, my second cousin is the great-great-grandson of Harry Houdini, and my cousin’s son-in-law is the bassist for The Killers.

    Why, I guess that make us a goddam Show Bidness DYNASTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  208. Now don’t go away mad, Fredo… go away EDUCATED!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  209. Peter Wehner writes:

    “While campaigning for her husband in South Carolina, Anita Perry said, “We are being brutalized by our opponents and our own party. So much of that is, I think they look at him because of his faith. He’s the only true conservative — well, there are some conservatives, and they’re there for good reasons. And they may feel like God called them, too. But I truly feel like we are here for that purpose.”

    When Governor Perry was asked about these comments, he answered, “I’ll stand by my wife. I think she’s right on both cases. My understanding is that she said I’m the most conservative candidate in the race and ‘he’s a Christian.’ So I haven’t got anything I can add to that and she’s hit me on my mark both times there,” Perry said on “Good Morning America.”

    This is a complicated matter to weigh in on. Mrs. Perry’s remarks are emotional and heartfelt. She obviously believes in her husband and his campaign, perhaps even more than he does; and the last month has been rough on both of them. So one can understand why, in the face of the collapse of his campaign, she would search for some larger meaning to it all. Perry, on the other hand, could hardly repudiate his wife when asked about what she said.

    Still, it’s worth pointing out a few things. The first is Perry hasn’t been “brutalized” by anyone because of his faith. What he’s been “brutalized” for are four poor debate performances. To the degree that faith has been used against anyone so far in the election, it’s been used against Governor Romney by a pastor, Robert Jeffress, who introduced Perry at a recent event and accused Romney of being a member of a “cult” and therefore unworthy of the support of evangelical Christians.

    There’s a tendency many of us share, which is to try to rationalize our failures as a product of our virtues. In this case, then, Rick Perry’s declining political fortunes are said to be a product of resentment toward his religious faith. It’s probably worth bearing in mind, then, that there have been times in history in which the persecution for people’s faith meant the end of their lives (see the fate of most of the apostles). And of course, Christians themselves have over the centuries murdered people for their lack of belief.”

    Read more here: http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/10/14/perry-burning-bush-fait/

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  210. Haiku, Mitt’s cousin is another candidate for President right now.

    Both his parents, his brother, two sons. All politicians. His family goes all the way back to a direct ancestor politician who won 23 consecutive terms in the 17th century.

    The Pratt-Romney political family is not something I just made up.

    But now I expect you to do what you did in the last thread. You claim I’m wrong, and I repeatedly back up my point, and you repeatedly deny in various insincere ways and then at the end freak out that I’m ‘shouting from the rooftops’ a point I only wanted to raise a single time, but you disputed many times.

    My point is that you apparently think there’s something wrong with Romney being from a political dynasty, or you wouldn’t raise so much fuss to deny it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  211. lol, Haiku is back to cutting and pasting off topic Perry bashing.

    Love this one, too. Haiku has personally whined about those criticizing Romney for his faith, and now he flip flops to mocking that exact same concern.

    I don’t have this problem, since I thought both whines were unfortunate. It’s so much easier being me, having an honest POV, than being Haiku.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  212. The Pratt-Romney political family is not something I just made up.

    You think I wasn’t telling you the truth about my family’s ShowbidNessDynasty? Guess again, Fredo.

    The link about that religious bidness was not mocking, it was by way of Commentary… not known to bash Republicans.

    Just a different side of the coin from your sycophantic, syrupy, buttsmoochy flowery description of the same bidness.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  213. Just listened to Mike Huckleberry say that the bottom falling out of Perry’s campaign has nothing to do with his religion, it’s his terrible performances in the debates.

    He went on to say that Perry’s evangelical persuasion should be a big boost, as close to 40% of Republican primary voters are evangelicals as well.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  214. if you know that 40% of Republican primary voters are evangelicals you have enough data to make a pie chart!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  215. Funny thing… I googled “Romney family political dynasty” and got a total of 5 hits… Daily Beast decidedly liberal check… Business Insider… MSNBC leans left, lol, check… Deseret News decidedly liberal check… and something called beyond chron, an alternative/leftist newsrag.

    I then googled “Was Rick Perry drunk or high during the debates?” and got 4 hits… I googled “Is Rick Perry Dumb?” and got 9 hits before I lost interest. 10 good hits on “Is Rick Perry soft on illegal immigration?”

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  216. Somehow the retort “La,la,la, I can’t hear you” does not seem destined to carry the day.

    Sans logic, facts and the wit to wed them, what is a bad poet to do?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  217. I googled Is ColonelHaiku a fag and I got 1823 Hits.

    I googled Is ColonelHaiku a fall down drunk and I got 5948 Hits.

    19283 good hits on is ColonelHaiku a SCOAMF.

    Romney is no bette ron immigration/

    DohBiden (d54602)

  218. and to think that this early primary season is waay to faar away…

    EricPWJohnson (2a58f7)

  219. Leftys such as Haiku are crapholes.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  220. I googled “Romney family political dynasty” and got eight hundred thousand hits, and every single one on the first several pages discussed Romney’s family of politicians.

    I didn’t realize even this silly piece of trivia would become something Haiku wanted to deny, like practically every single other fact. Yeah, Haiku, Romney’s family is known as a political dynasty.

    Here’s a hint: it is not wise to deny something that is easily proven, because you lose credibility. Instead, explain why it doesn’t matter that Romney hails from a family of politicians.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  221. And again, I didn’t intend for this to become a major point of controversy. It’s a minor point, though an interesting difference in the backgrounds of these two candidates, one of whom relates to you and me far better than the other.

    Just think, a family where everybody runs for office. Where your name = tons of support automatically. Unearned. Wins one election and is to unpopular by the end to win another.

    And then compare to a guy who worked hard, became a pilot, worked a farm, worked door to door retail, and actually managed to became the longest serving governor in Texas history.

    There’s a reason Mitt can take a political position literally 180 degrees from the day before, and there’s a reason Perry actually stammers out something he knows the audience doesn’t want to hear, just because that’s what Perry really believes.

    The difference between these two guys couldn’t be greater.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  222. to=too

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  223. I googled ColonelHaiku is a manwhore and I got 9,493,291 hits.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  224. I dunno but hearing Holdren and other ph*ckwits in Urkel’s ear came from the Romney admin might clinch it for fence sitters.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  225. It seems that Mitt gave her a big promotion, although she had already been in the pipeline:

    http://www.ctlng.state.ct.us/mccarthy.htm

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  226. ______________________________________________

    Comment by ColonelHaiku
    Comment by Dustin

    In the context of what we’re dealing with in America in the 21st century, your passion for either Romney or Perry puzzles me. In a way, I wish this country were so strongly sensible (and conservative), that everyone could take it as a given that the next president is going to be — more or less — of the right. If that were the case, then argue ’til your blue in the face.

    But there are too many people out there who fall for the notion that liberalism and Democrats are so humane, beautiful and sophisticated — or guarantee that $$$ will flow into a voter’s wallet or purse (spanning from unemployment to social security checks) — that I don’t trust the instincts of a good portion of the electorate.

    From a purely tactic standpoint, I wonder how the squishiness of Romney will affect his standing among a variety of independent voters in the US, and how Perry’s use of “heartless” will do the same thing.

    My own gut instincts make me suspect I’ll be more annoyed at instances of ideological chameleon-ism in a Mitt Romney presidency compared with that in a Rick Perry one. Not too sure about Herman Cain, but he does seem to be more of a straight shooter than either Romney or Perry.

    If I could look into a crystal ball and determine which one of the Republican candidates has the best chance of winning in 2012, that would be my preference. If any of the candidates, for any number of reasons, will be unable to beat the guy now in the White House, they definitely need to (or have to) step aside.

    Getting rid of President “Goddamn America” is the most crucial goal right now. As far as I’m concerned, nothing else is quite as important.

    Mark (411533)

  227. Mark

    Dustin speaks of his considerable experience in living in Texas. DRJ is also a Perry supporter so is Pat and most of what I call “true” conservatives.

    Perry would be one if not the greatist president that ever lived – he has that deep capacity – he also is a man who will let the masses sort themselves out – if Herman Cain who has no plan bu a slogan – captures the heart of a totally unserious electorate who want more entertainment than solutions – rick is fine doing what he is doing.

    The simple truth is that Cain and everyone knows that there is a sero point zero chance of a guy getting elected and being able to throw out 200 years of tax law in one fell swoop. Cain knows this and is purely in this election cycle to personally enrich himself like Huckabee.

    We dont get a chance for people like Perry, we missed a chance with Fred, choosing instead to slather over another naked opportunist – Huckabee.

    EricPWJohnson (d84fb0)

  228. Our tax laws have been around for 200 years?

    Who knew?

    Icy (1a57a5)

  229. Icy each congress passed taxes cain wants to throw out everything right?

    EricPWJohnson (d84fb0)

  230. Wrong. Why don’t you actually READ his tax plan before commenting on it?

    Icy (1a57a5)

  231. re:posts 229 & 230… nothing wrong with serving in office, it’s admirable, and no, Dustin/Fredo got nothing more than five hits. But by Dustin/ Fredo’s own definition, I am a member of my family’s ShowBidnessDynasty. Who knew it!

    Working on a farm is fine but both Perry and Romney worked their way up to where they are now. As a young man, I worked on my uncle’s farm and ranch for several summers bailing hay. Put the flatbed truck in “granny gear”, jump out of the cab and keep up with it as you pick up and throw the hay bales on. Do the same to what seemed like endless rows of hay bails. Back-breaking work in the hot sun and high humidity. It made me stronger, but I shunned the accolades.

    Romney needs to do a better job connecting with the voters. He may or may not be able to do that. Perry may or may not be finished as a candidate this time around. He hasn’t even convinced me that he wants to be POTUS and he has been a near son-ambulant for all intents and purposes.

    May a combination of the most capable candidate and the candidate with the best chance to beat Obama win the nomination. Whichever man or woman that turns out to be.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  232. _______________________________________________

    DRJ is also a Perry supporter so is Pat and most of what I call “true” conservatives.

    Eric, I’ll be very relieved if any of the Republican candidates (except Obama’s ambassador to China, Jon Huntsman) takes over the White House in 2012. So my main interest is how the nominee will fare — tactically — among the various parts of the electorate.

    How will a Perry candidacy play out among X percentage of ultra-conservatives, conservatives, right-centrists, centrists, left-centrists, liberals and ultra-liberals? The same question applies to Romney, Cain, etc. IOW, who will gain more voters in one group so as to make up for a deficit in another? Or who will lose so many voters in one group that it cannot be offset by a majority in another group?

    If the outcome in that recent Congressional election in New York City is not a fluke, I can be more confident that a majority of the public won’t be foolish, or actually rather insane, in 2012—unlike the way it was in 2008.

    Mark (411533)

  233. I googled “Romney family political dynasty” and got eight hundred thousand hits, and every single one on the first several pages discussed Romney’s family of politicians.

    Just one more falsehood from Fredo, Cap’n PomPom of the Texas Cheerleaders for Perry.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  234. “I googled “Romney family political dynasty” and got eight hundred thousand hits”

    7500 are comments from Dustin and EPWJ.

    daleyrocks (e56eef)

  235. The Colonel is correct, Dustin. That was EXTREMELY disingenuous of you.

    Icy (1a57a5)

  236. “Results from a New Hampshire Journal poll of likely New Hampshire GOP voters conducted by Magellan Strategies released today: Mitt Romney (41 percent), Herman Cain (20 percent), Ron Paul (10 percent), Jon Huntsman and Newt Gingrich (6 percent), Michele Bachmann (4 percent), Rick Perry and Rick Santorum (2 percent), and Gary Johnson (1 percent). Eight percent remain undecided.”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/280180/romney-maintains-lead-nh-cain-second-katrina-trinko

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  237. DRJ is also a Perry supporter so is Pat and most of what I call “true” conservatives.

    DRJ and Mr. Frey are aces in my book, but I don’t want to be your sort of “true” conservative.

    Nothing personal, Eric.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  238. Yes, all those mention at least one of those words: Romney… family… political… dynasty

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  239. great googleymoogley!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  240. the light of The One
    lights fredo’s upturned face, hark!
    “you have served me well”

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  241. the sharecropper roots
    door-to-door vacuum cleaner
    sales trumps what again?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  242. was not was before
    a face in the crowd we gots
    “Lonesome Rhodes” Perry

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  243. I do not think Palin intended to run so I guess that makes me a romneyturd now?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  244. just a Western Family® turd, biden.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  245. “This thread is about Romney”

    Dustin @166 – You sure had me fooled!
    Romney’s religion? Why do you keep introducucing it into the conversation? Hmmmmm?

    Why return to his 30 month mission to France that you were clueless about that you claimed was not a character building experience? Are you claiming now that his religion was not relevant to bring up in the context of that discussion which you still fail to understand?

    Let your Palinization of Romney continue!

    The name Rick Perry may not be uttered except in the context of annointing him the next POTUS.

    Carry on.

    daleyrocks (e56eef)

  246. Romney has flaws.

    Perry has flaws.

    Anyone who votes for Obama in 2012 deserves the economic vengance he incurs on them.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  247. that is a great, honest, concise post, doh biden. Good show!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  248. ________________________________________________

    Romney needs to do a better job connecting with the voters.

    In terms of the purely superficial, or based on what sometimes is called central casting, he does look like a “president.” But that’s assuming the US hasn’t become too Banana Republican-ized (ie, a variation of Argentina, per below), so that the “wholesome family” type and image is now seen as oddly contrarian or outdated. But there also is something about Romney that makes me wonder if he can’t too easily become sort of a right-leaning version of Bill-Clinton slickster.

    But when it comes to sleazy slickness, the worse of the Republicans have nothing over the worse of the Democrats—ie, the Clintons, Gores, Obamas, etc. But such types are able to flourish when too much of the electorate not only tolerates such people, it even embraces them. That’s why I fear the following happening to America in the future…

    Economist.com, February 2010:

    WHEN Néstor Kirchner took over as Argentina’s president in 2003, his country’s economy was already on the mend after a sickening collapse 18 months earlier that had prompted debt default and devaluation. Lambasting the IMF and privatisation, Mr Kirchner extended the state’s control over the economy. Rising world prices for Argentina’s farm-commodity exports and government pump-priming unleashed an economic boom. This made Mr Kirchner a popular hero, and secured the election of his wife, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, as his successor in 2007. She has continued his policies.

    Enjoying almost complete political dominance, Argentina’s first couple swatted away critics who accused them of everything from illegal enrichment to wrecking institutions. They are still trying to do so. Ms Fernández frequently accuses Argentina’s leading newspapers of making up stories to discredit her government.

    Four of the president’s private secretaries are being investigated for enriching themselves illegally…. Meanwhile Mr Kirchner has been criticised for a transaction in October 2008 in which he swapped pesos for $2m shortly before the value of the currency fell sharply. He says this was to buy a stake in a hotel company that was priced in dollars and insists that he was not speculating against the peso. However, the Kirchners admit that their personal wealth has increased dramatically while they have been in office.

    [The Kirchners] have bullied institutions that have got in their way, from the judiciary to the Central Bank. They have used the power of the state to harass groups they see as hostile, from farmers to utility companies. Meanwhile, some of their allies have thrived.

    Both the Kirchners are from the left wing of the dominant Peronist movement. Both claim to have been active in the resistance to Argentina’s military government.

    As governor, Mr Kirchner ploughed hydrocarbons revenues into public-sector jobs and infrastructure projects. Oil and gas companies needed his administration’s approval to get exploration contracts.

    On becoming president Mr Kirchner struck up a friendship with Hugo Chávez, but the first couple’s approach to the private sector has been a bit more subtle than that of their Venezuelan counterpart. They have nationalised, but sparingly. The government has taken over the troubled national airline and the private pension system, and also set up several new state companies. Meanwhile, some private businesses have faced regulation to the point of harassment.

    The Kirchners retained an economic emergency law that, among other things, allows the government to change the contracts under which privatised utilities provide services…. Now it is the government that sets utility prices. The freezing of the retail price of natural gas has discouraged investment in exploration.

    The price of beef has been held down by adding a high export tax, encouraging farmers to sell in the domestic market. Farmers are now able to export only at the government’s discretion.

    Despite these price controls, both formal and informal, Argentina suffers from high inflation. In 2007 Mr Moreno’s team changed the way the consumer-price index was measured by the National Statistics and Census Institute (INDEC). This had the effect of keeping the official inflation figure in single digits.

    The government also gets involved in private business dealings that should be beyond its remit. [When Shell Oil] raised prices at its petrol stations in Argentina…Mr Kirchner urged Argentines not to buy “even a can of oil” from the company. [The government] then fined Shell 23 times in 2006 for undersupplying the market. According to Juan José Aranguren, the company’s head in Argentina, Shell was providing 8% more petrol than the year before, a bigger increase than the market average.

    Mr Aranguren faced 57 arrest warrants in 2007, again for allegedly undersupplying the market, each carrying a prison term of between six months and four years. Next the government ordered Shell to shut down a refinery for alleged environmental violations, allowing it to reopen without explanation five days later.

    The second example of government interference involves the Clarín Group, Argentina’s most powerful media business. In September last year, 200 tax inspectors descended on the group’s offices. No one seemed to know who sent them. The tax agency’s boss denied ordering the inspection. The government accused its opponents of organising the raid to make it look bad. The group’s daily newspaper, Clarín, and its television stations have been fierce critics of Ms Fernández’s government.

    The Central Bank, which in theory is independent, has also been brought within the president’s direct control…. Not everyone is treated so harshly. Indeed, a few businessmen who enjoy good relations with the Kirchners have done well in recent years.

    [T]he Kirchners have left their country with weaker institutions, and an economy in which the state plays a much bigger role and in which political contacts often seem to make the difference between business success and failure.

    ^ The Occupy Wall Street crowd would consider Argentina a slice of heaven.

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    Mark (411533)

  249. Romney is a simpering climate change pansy what used the power of the state to viciously rape free enterprise cause of Al Gore told him carbon dioxide molecules were of teh devil.

    Me I can’t vote for him.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  250. Romney also shacked up with John Holdren.

    :shock: Wow Colonel

    DohBiden (d54602)

  251. he’s so gross

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  252. The Colonel is correct, Dustin. That was EXTREMELY disingenuous of you.

    Comment by Icy — 10/15/2011 @ 8:27 am

    In what way?

    I wasn’t lying about that. I googled the terms Haiku named and there are eight hundred thousand hits discussing the political dynasty thing, which again, I didn’t intend to make a huge issue out of.

    Haiku has moved on to explaining that “nothing wrong with serving in office, it’s admirable,”

    OK. Then why pretend Romney’s entire family isn’t politicians. They are, and there’s nothin disingenuous about it.

    If you’re talking about some other issue, by all means let me know so I can explain myself better.

    Why return to his 30 month mission to France that you were clueless about that you claimed was not a character building experience? Are you claiming now that his religion was not relevant to bring up in the context of that discussion which you still fail to understand?

    You originally brought it up. I said Romney’s flip flops show he compromises on character, and you said that’s not true because of this mission trip. I don’t think that makes any sense. Romney’s flip flops are clear and show a character problem. His mission trip is something I know very little about and you provided very little detail about aside from saying it was dealing with ‘wine drinking catholics’.

    The fact is that Romney’s mormon connections are incredibly lucrative, and he probably felt tremendous pressure to do that mission trip, and we know very little about his activity during it. His peers were fighting in Vietnam at the time. I do not give Romney any credit for that, but you assume it must be proof of character, which I interpret as a religious argument.

    In the context of what we’re dealing with in America in the 21st century, your passion for either Romney or Perry puzzles me

    The deficit is over a trillion dollars per year, Mark! We need to balance the budget!

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  253. I’ll have to read up on that, biden. I hope that Romney evidences more sense than to throw in with that guy. However, it would bother me less than Perry’s repudiation of conservative Republican orthodoxy on illegal immigration.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  254. Mark, Perry or Romney can beat Obama, but Perry will do a better job holding the right together than Romney will. Romney couldn’t beat Mccain despite having a huge money advantage for the same reason he can’t win the GOP primary without splitting the conservative vote among several candidates. He can’t even get a third of the party’s support, despite doing nothing but running for president for five years and having a tremendous name recognition advantage.

    I do not understand trying to equivocate between Romney or Perry, because Romney has a much more liberal record.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  255. OK. Then why pretend Romney’s entire family isn’t politicians. They are, and there’s nothin disingenuous about it.

    That is an outright lie, Fredo.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  256. I googled “Romney family political dynasty” and got eight hundred thousand hits, and every single one on the first several pages discussed Romney’s family of politicians.

    Just one more falsehood from Fredo, Cap’n PomPom of the Texas Cheerleaders for Perry.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 8:18 am

    Link to the google search with 862,000 results.

    Every single one that I saw relates specifically to Romney having a family of politicians.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  257. The fact is that Romney’s mormon connections are incredibly lucrative, and he probably felt tremendous pressure to do that mission trip, and we know very little about his activity during it. His peers were fighting in Vietnam at the time. I do not give Romney any credit for that, but you assume it must be proof of character, which I interpret as a religious argument.

    More outrageous bullsh*t from Fredo.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  258. Also, zero of the hits were to Patterico’s blog.

    That is an outright lie, Fredo.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 10:38 am

    Mitt Romney’s brother, both parents, two sons, and dozens of his older relatives.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  259. Sis Boom Bah!!!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  260. More outrageous bullsh*t from Fredo.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 10:41 am

    You keep responding to simple facts by claiming it’s a lie.

    What is the lie here?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  261. Mitt Romney’s brother, both parents, two sons, and dozens of his older relatives.

    Comment by Dustin — 10/15/2011

    Keep trying, Fredo.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  262. the sharecropper roots
    full Fuller Brush door-to-door
    sales trumps what again?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  263. Keep trying, Fredo.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 10:42 am

    He has a family where everyone is born with political connections and everyone runs for office. There are countless folks calling this a political dynasty.

    Mark “My own gut instincts make me suspect I’ll be more annoyed at instances of ideological chameleon-ism in a Mitt Romney presidency compared with that in a Rick Perry one. Not too sure about Herman Cain, but he does seem to be more of a straight shooter than either Romney or Perry. ”

    I think that’s fair. Cain is definitely a straight shooter and I like him too. And if he continues to be the highest polls not-Romney when I vote in the primary, I’m voting for him, as I’ve said a few times.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  264. He has a family where everyone is born with political connections and everyone runs for office

    Complete and utter bullsh*t, Fredo.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  265. his class-warfare and
    politics of green envy
    unmask closet Lib

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  266. More outrageous bullsh*t from Fredo.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku —

    I want to know, what specifically are you saying was the lie in that quote of mine?

    Were Romney’s peers fighting in Vietnam when Romney was in france? Yes. Are Romney’s connections incredibly lucrative? Obviously, particularly with Mormons. Bain Capital’s bio is a who’s who of smart Mormons. Nearly all the senior leadership went to Brigham Young (not that I think there’s anything wrong with this, but obviously Mormon connections helped Mitt tremendously in life).

    Daley claims that I must be ignorant of Romney’s mission trip because I see this as far less character building than what Romney’s peers were doing (fighting the war Romney said he supported). I have repeatedly asked Daley to back up his claim by explaining specifically what Romney did or was responsible for doing. Surely Daley is not claiming that 100% of Mormon men have proven character above and beyond non Mormon men, as that would be repellent. But he never has backed up his claims, and his devotion to Romney and hostility to Perry has been bizarre.

    Daley also claimed he could prove Perry was “Chicago level corrupt” and has not done so.

    I think Daley is one of many folks who chose Romney because of his faith, but I’m open to Daley explaining this as wrong. It’s merely an assumption, and not a very strong one.

    Haiku, I admit I basically wonder the same about you, as you use a lot of arguments that apply much more harshly to Romney than Perry. For example, you have repeatedly brought up Perry’s illegal immigration record. Romney never did a thing about MA’s sanctuary cities, hired illegal immigrants for his lawn service on multiple occasions (at least from a firm he knows employs illegals), and only made a move for MA law enforcement to do anything about illegal immigration in the final days of office (and nothing actually materialized because Romney’s term was over). Perry has a much better record, of course.

    So on this and many other issues, you clearly aren’t actually preferring Romney for the reasons you claim you are.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  267. Complete and utter bullsh*t, Fredo.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 10:50 am

    No, it’s really plainly true. It’s actually more unusual for a direct relative of Romney not to run for office than it is for them to run for office.

    his class-warfare and
    politics of green envy
    unmask closet Lib

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    What class warfare? Are you saying Romney DID have advantages that Perry did not have? Because if so, you’re admitting my original point was true. Perry worked his way up to being a repeat governor of a great state. Romney worked his way up to being an unsuccessful governor of a very screwed up state that he further screwed up with Romneycare and gun grabbing, but Romney didn’t have to work his way up like Perry did.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  268. I hope the R ones don’t nominate Romney cause I was looking forward to showing off my voting skills next year

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  269. A guy who sympathizes with OWS after saying he did not should not have his supporters scream class warfare.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  270. Why is it that every single time Haiku claims something is false, it’s actually true?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  271. I hope the R ones don’t nominate Romney cause I was looking forward to showing off my voting skills next year

    If that would force you to sit on your hands, you are both clinically insane and you and others of the same mind-set deserve all the bad that will happen as a result.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  272. A guy who sympathizes with OWS after saying he did not should not have his supporters scream class warfare.

    Comment by DohBiden — 10/15/2011 @ 11:00 am

    It doesn’t even make any sense. Perry is not a poor man. He’s at best a low millionaire, but he’s a successful man. He worked his way up from nothing, which is the American way and something any American can do if they apply themselves. You don’t need to be born into a gilded family name. Perry would have been just as successful if his name was Smith or James.

    I think Perry gets some credit for that, but this is not as important as looking specifically at Perry’s path. Most of his elected office work related specifically to fiscal conservatism. He was lauded as one of Texas’s ten best legislators, and respected even by those who completely disagreed with him.

    Romney has something that is also impressive in the private sector, though it’s unclear to me how this relates to creating jobs, or how Romney specifically led. I’ve asked about this, but Romney supporters generally just flip out at this point.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  273. Fredo, even your lies are infested with lies. It’s a unique talent.

    Your fave has met with disaster through his repeated son-ambulant performances and you are having a hard time dealing with it. On a certain level, it’s understandable. If you are able to recover from your disappointment – and it’s far from clear that you will, given your investment – it will offer some evidence of your own character. You will either stop spreading lies, half-truths and blatant disinformation about people you do not like, or you will continue to be the weasel you have thus far shown yourself to be.

    May the most capable candidate with the best chance of crushing Barack Hussein Obama win the Republican nomination.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  274. If that would force you to sit on your hands, you are both clinically insane and you and others of the same mind-set deserve all the bad that will happen as a result.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:02 am

    Instead of giving him a personal insult, you need to present the many conservatives who say they won’t support Romney in the general with an ARGUMENT.

    How is Romney’s leadership going to save this country from the fiscal crisis? I used to say judicial appointments, but POA corrected cited Romney’s judicial appointment record, which is hyper liberal.

    Is Romney going to reform the Ponzi Scheme social security? No. Romney instead specifically promised to undo a $500 billion cut to Medicare (something Daleyrocks claims means nothing).

    Sure, we all think Obama is a very poor president. And yet Romney has to UNDO Obama’s policies, which actually continue to trigger after 2012, making the country steadily more liberal, and steadily further in debt.

    Romney’s 160 page agenda is full of promises to plan and solve things, but there’s *nothing* about repealing Obamacare or reducing the price of entitlements.

    Romney has a lot of great platitudes about Obama’s pathetic apologizing for America, and how Obama hasn’t created jobs. That’s stuff I cheer too. But will Romney save the country from Obamacare and other Obama policies? As best as I can tell, Romney is one of many Republicans who move to the center, promising never to upset an entitlement.

    Entitlements are always very hard to undo, and Obamacare doesn’t fully trigger until the next four year term.

    Personally, I would tell Happyfeet that Obama isn’t done yet, and in a second term, would abandon any semblance of centrism. Compared to a centrist Romney, Romney wins.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  275. A guy who sympathizes with OWS after saying he did not should not have his supporters scream class warfare.

    Remarkably, there are some normal people who do have concerns around economic issues, job opportunity, etc., that are among those crowds. They are the folks who clean-up after themselves. That is who Romney was speaking about and to. He made that clear in the last debate.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  276. Fredo… I have not the interest or the time to try and convince you or happy feet to do what rational people would do. People with an interest can do what intelligent people should do, which is educate themselves.

    As far as insults, you are one to talk.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  277. Fredo, even your lies are infested with lies. It’s a unique talent.

    And yet you have failed to show me a single provable lie I’ve told. most of the time, what you call a lie is actually obviously true. The rest of the time, what you call a lie is simply a difference of opinion that only a moron would call a lie.

    May the most capable candidate with the best chance of crushing Barack Hussein Obama win the Republican nomination.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:11 am

    And you can’t use this to support Romney when every single problem with Romney you claim is a lie and dismiss.

    The guy has a personal story that doesn’t appeal to anybody. He’s got a major problem because he outsourced American jobs to China, which is what made him wealthy, though he was born wealthy and connected anyway.

    He’s going to have a hard time crushing Obama for the same reason Mccain (the dude who crushed Romney) failed. Conservatives will have low enthusiasm. Sure, they will probably vote. If the line at the polls aren’t too long, anyway. That’s about it.

    The mormon issue I have repeatedly noted is a wash. Obama will palinize Perry or Romney or Cain as religious kooks and weird no matter their views.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  278. And yet you have failed to show me a single provable lie I’ve told. most of the time, what you call a lie is actually obviously true. The rest of the time, what you call a lie is simply a difference of opinion that only a moron would call a lie.

    Keep trying to convince yourself, Fredo. You are officially dead to me. See ya in Hell.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  279. Again… may the most capable candidate with the best chance of crushing Barack Hussein Obama win the Republican nomination.

    That is all.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  280. As far as insults, you are one to talk.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:17 am

    I have been far, far more civil to you than you’ve been to be. I repeatedly said I respect your difference of opinion, as you ignored it.

    I did call you a moron, once, when you gave a particularly dishonest argument claiming I was a liar about something I actually proved was part of Perry’s record (you said I was dishonest because you don’t want to give Perry credit for it after you admit it did actually happen as I said it did).

    I even said I regretted the insult (you were calling my an asshole at the time).

    I have not the interest or the time to try and convince you or happy feet to do what rational people would do.

    I agree. You have no interest in actually impressing conservatives with Romney’s record. You merely want to claim ‘lie’ about Romney, no matter that you know it’s not a lie. You scream lie, toss in a few insults, and then spam something unrelated about Perry. 5000 times in a row.

    You have plenty of time, but you lack the mental horsepower or the facts to win one of our arguments.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  281. Again… may the most capable candidate with the best chance of crushing Barack Hussein Obama win the Republican nomination.

    That is all.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:21 am

    No. May the Republicans unite around a candidate they believe can improve America, cut spending, balance the budget, and repeal Obamacare!

    This is the primary, after all. Obama has 40% approval in critical swing states. So long as the GOP nominates someone who won’t split the party, we will probably beat Obama.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  282. In-state tuition for illegal immigration is a repudiation of conservative principles.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  283. Keep trying to convince yourself, Fredo. You are officially dead to me. See ya in Hell.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:20 am

    Damn, dude. You really take your Romney shilling to heart! I have never intended to make you as upset as you are now. I just wanted a good faith discussion of Romney’s record. Yeah, it’s pretty bad, but you could just explain how this makes him more palatable to centrists or something.

    Instead, you try to deny the truth, and get furious because I keep stomping that out with plain facts.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  284. Accepting billions of dollars in money that the federal government now has to borrow from China is a repudiation of conservative principles.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  285. Crony capitalism and the practice of conflict-of-interest politics is a repudiation of conservative principles.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  286. In-state tuition for illegal immigration is a repudiation of conservative principles.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:24 am

    Naw. They paid all the taxes that support Texas education, and are merely treated the same as any American. Move to Texas for a few years, and then you can get in state tuition.

    It’s a shame Texas has a mess stemming from an uncontrolled border. Perry has tried to fix that. But we do have that mess. Perry and the majority of Texans would rather these kids apply to be citizens and become professionals than have no future, and yet remain in Texas.

    This seems like a pathetic troll, though. This thread is specifically about Romney.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  287. y’all are welcome to vote for Miss Mittens Galore but I voted for the douchebag you selected last time like a good little monkey, and it felt bad, like I’d sullied something – you know, inside

    you should still be thanking me for making that sacrifice, not trying to coax a pikachu into voting for another convictionless whore

    We already have a whore president. I’m sort of over it. In 2012 I want a choice.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  288. Accepting billions of dollars in money that the federal government now has to borrow from China is a repudiation of conservative principles.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:26 am

    Texans pay federal income tax. If the federal government is sending money to MA to bail out Romneycare, and stimulus money to all the other states, why shouldn’t Texans recover some of what they paid the federal government?

    Why stupidily refuse stimulus funds? Obama just sends those to a blue state to waste. It’s not like it saves a dime… it just further transfer’s Texan income to blue states.

    Perry loudly condemned the stimulus at Tea Parties, and also was loudly condemning Obamacare when the matter was controversial (which is why Romney wasn’t saying anything at that time). That’s really all he could do.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  289. Numbers USA, a group that supports immigration control, gives Perry a “D-“ for his positions supporting amnesty, open borders, and opposing border security.

    A total repudiation of conservative principles.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  290. Crony capitalism and the practice of conflict-of-interest politics is a repudiation of conservative principles.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:27 am

    Romney’s highest Bain execs were appointed by Romney to powerful roles in the MA government. This is something Daley tried to email me about a while back when he boasted he was bashing Perry to emulate EPWJ’s Palin attacks, which Daley also said were way out of line many times (so Daley is admitting to being way out of line with Perry).

    The best you’ve got is that Perry’s political donors also donated to Perry’s wife’s charity. Whoop a dee doo.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  291. Numbers USA, a group that supports immigration control, gives Perry a “D-“ for his positions supporting amnesty, open borders, and opposing border security.

    Perry specifically opposes amnesty and has sent tremendous resources to secure the border and increase border security and immigration control.

    100% of what you just said is a provable lie.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  292. Numbers USA is a group of spic-hating bigots what screech about brown people while their gay-assed little country is spending itself into the toilet of history.

    But Texas has done just fine creating jobs right along with its immigration policies, meanwhile Whoremerica has to suck off Chinese to pay the rent every month.

    More Texas please, less whores and bigots.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  293. that would make a great bumper sticker, yes?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  294. btw, Numbers USA stands for less LEGAL immigration.

    But despite Haiku’s claims, Numbers USA claims Perry is, quote “excellent” on border control.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  295. Perry bypassed the Texas Legislature and signed an executive order mandating that all girls entering the sixth grade receive a vaccine that helps protect from some strains of the human papillomavirus (HPV), a sexually transmitted disease that can cause cervical cancer.

    A conservative would offer that as a choice, not mandate that a parent opt-out. This tells us how Perry thinks and will act.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  296. Numbers USA claims Perry is, quote “excellent” on border control.

    Another lie from Fredo.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  297. More Texas please, less whores and bigots.

    Comment by happyfeet — 10/15/2011 @ 11:33 am

    I don’t think Haiku is being a bigot. He doesn’t actually care about this specific issue. Numbers USA gave Romney a C-, and Romney has very little leadership record on immigration to speak of.

    He is completely insincere about this.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  298. ‘You originally brought it up. I said Romney’s flip flops show he compromises on character, and you said that’s not true because of this mission trip. I don’t think that makes any sense. Romney’s flip flops are clear and show a character problem. His mission trip is something I know very little about and you provided very little detail about aside from saying it was dealing with ‘wine drinking catholics’.’

    Dustin – Yes I did bring Romney’s 30 month mormon mission up, the one he started at age 17, but not in the context you describe above.

    This word “fact” you keep using, does not mean reinventing what you have said before, repurposing the comments of others or reinventing history. You are misusing the word in this comment section as has been proved time and again and confusing opinion with fact as well.

    The context I brought up Romney’s mission was in the middle of your unhinged rant about Romney having no character because he had never had any character building experiences. Everything had always been handed to him in life or business. This is something you call a fact.

    I threw out his mormon mission as a character building experience at which you immediately scoffed, suggesting mom and dad paid for everything so he could live in luxury in France. You even questioned why I brought up the question of his religion and catholicism in the context of the discussion.

    I have no idea whether you are acting dumb or are seriously too dumb to understand that mormons don’t drink or smoke and that proselytizing in a culture where both are deeply engrained, going door to door, might be tough duty, especially at a time when Americans were not the most popular folks around. You sure still ignorant about the idea.

    daleyrocks (e56eef)

  299. The left wants us to stay neutral except when it comes to the war on captialism or the war against Israel.

    Romney is a devil.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  300. A conservative would offer that as a choice, not mandate that a parent opt-out. This tells us how Perry thinks and will act.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:35 am

    If they can opt out, that is offered as a choice. Going to a website is not difficult.

    And Romney’s only criticism of this mandate is he thinks this mandate should have been passed via the legislature (Romney is 100% on this, and Perry was quite mistaken to use an EO). Of course, Perry admits as much and this is one of 3-4 mistakes over a 20 year career of great results.

    Numbers USA claims Perry is, quote “excellent” on border control.

    Another lie from Fredo.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:36 am

    No, Numbers USA, which is, again, opposed to LEGAL immigration, gave Rick Perry a score of “excellent” on the “Secure Borders” block. They have no choice, as Perry sent tremendous resources to secure the border, and has a great record on this one aspect of immigration policy.

    Haiku knows this, and is a shameless liar for characterizing Numbers USA’s general rating of Perry as based on ‘amnesty and border control’.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  301. I have no idea whether you are acting dumb or are seriously too dumb to understand that mormons don’t drink or smoke and that proselytizing in a culture where both are deeply engrained, going door to door, might be tough duty, especially at a time when Americans were not the most popular folks around. You sure still ignorant about the idea.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/15/2011 @ 11:39 am

    Of course I know that Mormons don’t drink Cokes, etc. So what? What in the world?

    Romney’s peers were fighting in Vietnam, and Romney was doing without wine in France.

    I threw out his mormon mission as a character building experience at which you immediately scoffed, suggesting mom and dad paid for everything so he could live in luxury in France. You even questioned why I brought up the question of his religion and catholicism in the context of the discussion.

    I never said Romney lived in luxury in France. You are lying. And we both know you are an admitted liar. You emailed me explaining your initial Perry bashing was not sincere, and only meant to emulate EPWJ’s Palin bashing.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  302. This word “fact” you keep using, does not mean reinventing what you have said before, repurposing the comments of others or reinventing history. You are misusing the word in this comment section as has been proved time and again and confusing opinion with fact as well.

    Nope. You and Haiku are the guys doing this.

    Dustin – Yes I did bring Romney’s 30 month mormon mission up, the one he started at age 17, but not in the context you describe above.

    For example, this is a lie. It’s not an opinion. I said Romney lacks character, and cited his abortion flip flop that I find ridiculous. You replied that Romney has character because he went on a mission trip. I asked you to explain. I repeatedly noted I was not familiar with the details and invited you to explain.

    I have an open mind about this, and was being polite. You were not.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  303. gardasil is just another vaccine – and we already mandate scads of them… it’s part of an ethos born in the space age and in curing polio and in a belief in scientific progress making life better for everybody … it’s all very very Epcot.

    America was on a way better path then, seems to me.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  304. Now, and example of a fact would be when I claim you and Haiku have suggested Perry is a homosexual in order to bash him with no basis other than hatred.

    And example of an opinion would be when I say Daleyrocks is a trashy person for doing that.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  305. America was on a way better path then, seems to me.

    Comment by happyfeet — 10/15/2011 @ 11:47 am

    When you realize just how much suffering is caused by HPV, the only question as far as the vaccine goes is ‘does it work?’

    My criticism of Perry for HPV is because I do not think we knew, at the time, how well it worked.

    Frankly, I have no problem with requiring the vaccine for 100% of students, if we know it works. Those who don’t want it can be expelled from school. But this is a pretty extreme position and I realize it’s far from Perry’s ‘you can opt out if you feel that way’ approach.

    Daleyrocks did not handle this issue like an adult.

    If Mr. Gov. Rick Perry was not such a government needle of mental retardation sluttiness poofter we would still have DADT today.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/21/2011 @ 10:32 am

    Of course, as soon as he saw me criticize Romney’s record, he started screaming I was sleeping with EPWJ, so what do you expect?

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  306. Daley has repeatedly suggested that the HPV vaccine will make these children sluts, and called it the “needle of sex”. I don’t think he was sincere. But that means he’s either a rank liar, or a rank kook.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  307. HPV vaccines help make it to where you don’t get tumors in your hoo-hoo.

    Highly recommended.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  308. Here is the current rating for Perry as Excellent on Border Control.

    Haiku is giving you the old cached version in his Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:39 am comment.

    He cited the rating, and I simply went to their website and saw they give Perry an “Excellent” for the specific ground Haiku claimed he got a D- on, which is border security.

    I wonder where Haiku is getting these hundreds of old Perry bashing articles? Regardless, he claims I was dishonest for stating something that is plainly true. This is how he has argued so many other issues.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  309. “Dustin – Yes I did bring Romney’s 30 month mormon mission up, the one he started at age 17, but not in the context you describe above.

    For example, this is a lie. It’s not an opinion. I said Romney lacks character, and cited his abortion flip flop that I find ridiculous. You replied that Romney has character because he went on a mission trip. I asked you to explain. I repeatedly noted I was not familiar with the details and invited you to explain. ‘

    Dustin – Search the archives and you will find I am 100% right. I am traveling and my access to a computer is limited, otherwise I would do it myself.

    daleyrocks (e56eef)

  310. Oh, and my 318 isn’t meant to be an endorsement of numbers USA.

    They are extremists and I disagree with them highly.

    I wouldn’t be an American is they had gotten their way. I’m here because one of my parents immigrated here, and I’ve never broken an American law, am gainfully employed, and even served in the Army proudly. I don’t understand their hostility to legal immigration.

    But Haiku doesn’t care about that. This is how far he had to go to bash Perry.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  311. “Now, and example of a fact would be when I claim you and Haiku have suggested Perry is a homosexual in order to bash him with no basis other than hatred.’

    The idea that you would consider those comments serious is a function of your thin-skinned stupidity.

    daleyrocks (e56eef)

  312. #318?

    you have different numbers than I have

    usually that means I’m getting filtrated

    yikes

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  313. Amen Dustin.

    Dustin where did your parents immigrate from?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  314. Dustin – Search the archives and you will find I am 100% right. I am traveling and my access to a computer is limited, otherwise I would do it myself.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/15/2011 @ 11:58 am

    100% right specifically about what?

    I’ll link it for you if you tell me what you’re talking about.

    I said Romney’s character is shown by his flip flop on abortion, the timing of which shows that he has none.

    You defended him with this mission trip, and as I repeatedly asked you to explain, all you had was this ‘wine drinking catholic’ thing and my ignorance. I admit I am ignorant of how Romney’s mission trip shows character more than what Romney’s peers were doing (fighting in Vietnam), and you have never cited anything specific Romney himself did. Your proof merely applies to any Mormon man who ‘volunteers’ for this mission trip, unless I’m mistaken.

    You are just as hysterical about this as you have been about Perry’s record, which again, you told me you were not honestly sincere about.

    Also, I defended Romney from the charge he volunteered to spread Mormonism at a time they discriminated against blacks for being cursed, and excluded all blacks from entering ‘The Mormon Temple’. This is the faith Romney was telling French folks to embrace, but it was obviously racist before Romney was even born, so it’s not his fault.

    However, I wouldn’t have told someone to join a church that said all blacks were cursed by God. I don’t hold this against Romney, again, but I think citing Romney’s adult support of Mormonism at this time is not a powerful argument. It could go either way, and personally, I don’t want to even concern myself with his faith. It seems like a particularly strange way to defend Romney from what I said: he flip flopped from support for abortion rights at the drop of a hat.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  315. Dustin where did your parents immigrate from?

    Comment by DohBiden — 10/15/2011 @ 12:08 pm

    Because there are a few kooks (not daleyrocks or Haiku, let me be clear about) who are kinda stalking me, I do not want to give out specific details like that.

    One was from the middle east.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  316. The idea that you would consider those comments serious is a function of your thin-skinned stupidity.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/15/2011 @ 12:02 pm

    They are trashy and evil. I already said I know you were not sincere.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  317. Yeah, when I read Rick Perry’s energy policy, I can’t help but think Romney would go in the exact opposite direction.

    Perry’s promising to clean EPA out, and rebuild something very different from what Romney supports in Eric’s link.

    I’m sure Romney has flip flopped on this by now, but I have never heard anything specific. He will clearly be a ‘centrist’ on global warming after he’s nominated (let’s hope he isn’t).

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  318. BTW, I’m not trying to have an ugly fight with daley and haiku. I just want to lay out the case against Romney without being called a liar, or a homosexual with Rick Perry or EPWJ or whatever the hell.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  319. “And we both know you are an admitted liar. You emailed me explaining your initial Perry bashing was not sincere, and only meant to emulate EPWJ’s Palin bashing.”

    Dustin – Correct, except I was emulating both EPWJ’s Palin and Romney bashing. I knew nothing about Perry, so I had nothing of substance with which to criticize.

    You then decided to join forces with EPWJ in unsupported, deceitful and substanceless Romney bashing, which is normally beneath you while serving as a blind cheerleader for Perry. Joined at the hip with EPWJ is not a good place to be, which is why I asked if you were having sex with him, another question you took seriously. See what I did there? There was a reason for the question, you were too revved up to see it clearly.

    Based on your decision to move to the dark side I started doing some research on Perry as well as the elementary task of debunking your smears on Romney.

    The carefully constructed Perry spin is not as good as claimed, but Perrybots take that as heresy and want to shut down any discussion of it. You also try to avoid actual discussion of Romney’s record as governor of Massachusetts which does not portray him as a tax and spend liberal that fits your narrative.

    The idea that you want to have a good faith discussion of Romney as a candidate is a little too precious when you have already declared you will not give him a shot and cannot trust him. Go figure.

    daleyrocks (e56eef)

  320. Romneybots calling you thin-skinned ROFLMAO.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  321. Yes because shagging John Holdren is perfectly tolerable.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  322. re: comment #137… “cached” = Thursday, July 28, 2011 in Fredo’s world.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  323. on the other hand Perry is so beholdened to religious bigots that he couldn’t even bring himself to denounce his nasty hate pastor friend Mr. Jeffress

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  324. And crappyfeet is so beholden to himself he talks forever.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  325. Re: #261
    In what way is your claim of 862,000 Google hits on “Romney family political dynasty” disingenuous, Dustin?

    Because, if you actually Google “Romney family political dynasty” — WITH the quotation marks in place, so that you limit the results to just those pages that include that precise phrase — the number of hits shrinks to . . . wait for it . . . ONE.

    Do the first few hits you got relate to the topic? Sure, to one decreeing another. And then soon you get the repititons of those same pages — and then another 800,000 or so pages that include those four words somewhere on those sites. Might not be anywhere close to each other, but they’re there.

    Oh, BTW, there are now TWO web pages that include within them the phrase “Romney family political dynasty”.

    This page is one of them.

    Dis•in•gen•u•ous

    Icy (6e1416)

  326. I’m beholden to tasty queso loroco pupusas!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  327. “one degree or another”

    Icy (6e1416)

  328. this is a good web page to go to for to learn how to spell disingenuous

    bookmarked.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  329. Fredo… caught in one lie after another…

    http://youtu.be/FcFlp6kl508

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  330. Texans pay federal income tax. If the federal government is sending money to MA to bail out Romneycare, and stimulus money to all the other states, why shouldn’t Texans recover some of what they paid the federal government?

    Some, but Texas receives much more than they pay in taxes. They’re on their way to becoming the West Virginia of the Great Southwest.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  331. YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO WHINE ABOUT LIES WHEN YOU ACCUSE THE PERRYS OF BEING DRUNK?

    Sorry for screaming.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  332. Big Cuke 19… biden O

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  333. actually this says that in 2010 Texas received 92 pennies back for every dollar they paid into the Federal Government. It’s from here.

    That’s the same as rape almost.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  334. ***trigger alert***

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  335. re: post #342… I see biden is as gullible as Fredo is… sarcasm zooms over their melons.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  336. Icy, thanks for replying. I wasn’t sure what you were referring to because there are several issues being discussed.

    Because, if you actually Google “Romney family political dynasty” — WITH the quotation marks in place, so that you limit the results to just those pages that include that precise phrase — the number of hits shrinks to . . . wait for it . . . ONE.

    Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I left the quotes off, but I didn’t think they were necessary to show that there are a lot of folks discussing the Romney dynasty. I think this is actually common sense, and how you would search if genuinely looking for info on the topic, rather than attempting to eliminate most results in bad faith (not you, Icy, but Haiku).

    It seems like searching for such an unusually phrased term would not provide a realistic gauge. Why does a page have to have those four words in that specific order to discuss the issue?

    Oh, BTW, there are now TWO web pages that include within them the phrase “Romney family political dynasty”.

    Haiku came up with that term. He is the one who decided to judge this based on google search results.

    In fact, if you simply search for Romney Dynasty there are over three million hits, and if you search for pages with all four words (why in the world is the word family necessary) you get eight hundred thousand.

    I don’t see how this is disingenuous.

    In fact, many major media outlets have discussed the Romney dynasty. Mitt Romney himself has discussed the Romney dynasty, explaining how he probably wouldn’t be running but for his father. I quoted those articles above, and then Haiku dismissed this with a google search test.

    Never did anyone say you had to use quotes and ensure the pages used those four words in that order to prove the page was talking about the issue I was citing.

    In fact, the two articles I quoted discuss the Romney dynasty at length without happening to use that four word phrase in that order. It is an unnatural and weird way to describe the concept, which is why despite many discussing this issue, almost no one has ever used that specific phrase until Haiku decided that’s the best way to gauge whether I made up the concept.

    Why are you bolding “precise phrase”? Tell me why it matters that a website have used that precise phrase?

    Here is a simple yes or no question to gauge just how disingenuous I’m being: Icy, if you were researching whether folks had discussed a Romney Dynasty, would you use that precise phrase in quotes to do so?

    No?

    In fact, yes or no, is the only reason to search that way merely to artificially reduce the search outcome?

    The idea of using the quotes never occurred to me, as it’s just so absurd.

    But this entire Google analysis is what’s disingenuous. I linked Romney’s family tree on wikipedia. It’s been an article on the family of politicians for several years. I’ve named how most of Romney’s close relatives, and dozens of direct ancestors, were politicians.

    BTW, I recall how Haiku complained that Perry didn’t have a job’s plan.

    Mitt Romney announces Presidential Run: June 2

    Rick Perry announces Presidential Run: August 13

    Mitt Romney announces 59 Point Plan: September 6

    Rick Perry announces Plan: October 14

    This is a different issue, but it goes to show that Perry’s actually not the absentee candidate some are painting him as.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  337. Some, but Texas receives much more than they pay in taxes.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 1:33 pm

    Not true. A common lie from north eastern politicos, but not true.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  338. You know who else was brutalized for his faith, Anita?

    Jesus.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  339. “Chris Edwards, director of tax-policy studies at the Cato Institute, compared Perry’s spending record with those of other governors and decided that Perry was “rather centrist” on spending overall. Crunching the data, Edwards found that under Perry, per capita spending in Texas had risen by 18 percent, the same amount that spending in other states increased, on average, in the years Perry was governor… Perry has been willing to accept federal funds. He turned down stimulus funds targeted for assistance to the unemployed ($555 million) — but accepted nearly $17 billion in stimulus funds targeted at other efforts. An analysis by PolitiFact Texas found that Texas had shifted from a donor state (paying more in taxes than receiving in federal funds) to a recipient state under Perry’s tenure. “On an annual basis between 1981 and 2003, Texas almost always paid more in federal taxes than it got back from Uncle Sam. But since 2003 the reverse has been true, with Texas receiving more than it paid in five out of seven years, which is close to routine,” PolitiFact Texas reported in April.

    There are many reasons Texas might have become a recipient state. The most obvious is that the state’s demographic composition has changed. A growing share of younger Texans are of Mexican origin, and at least some of them have foreign-born parents with limited English proficiency and other disadvantages that make them more likely to be eligible for federal assistance.

    But accepting federal funds isn’t the only chink in Perry’s small-spending armor: He also can’t point to the same experience with budget wars that a Scott Walker–type would have accumulated over the years. Having governed in Texas, Perry benefited from having a conservative legislature — which means he is “untested” on his ability to cut spending when confronted by a different kind of legislature and fiscal situation, observes Edwards.

    Keep in mind that Gov. Perry has been forced to make deep cuts in K-12 spending in the last budget cycle, and across the board. Having been in power for over a decade, one has to wonder why Gov. Perry has left so much fat on the bone. Has he not had his eye on spending throughout his tenure? ”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/277072/katrina-trinko-perry-spending-record-reihan-salam

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  340. Fredo is caught lying once again.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  341. cross posted with happyfeet, but he links what I’m talking about.

    Haiku, as usual, makes an extreme claim, doesn’t back it up with any evidence, and then will ignore the evidence he is 100% backwards. Texas is a net payer, not recipient.

    We did use some stimulus money, but Texans paid for it. Romneycare is nearly 50% subsidized by the federal government… that’s totally different. Texans do not WANT to be on the dole. We would rather there be no stimulus, and we pay for no stimulus, and each state take care of themselves for the most part, with the feds stepping in only for things states cannot do.

    But if we’re charged taxes, and we’re on the hook for the debt bomb, we might as well get at least some of our share of stimulus (And I don’t think we even got a fair share).

    It’s a shame that Texas’s record is under attack like this. It’s a very good record, and something all conservatives should be proud of. There are better, more honest ways of arguing for a candidate other than Perry than to pretend Texas isn’t proof limited government is the best way forward for this country.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  342. I don’t see how this is disingenuous.

    Now there’s a surprise…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  343. Haiku, your source is deeply biased. I already explained that’s a kook marxist who says the GOP should die and be replaced with a party that serves the working man.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  344. he sputters… he obfuscates… he spreads disinformation… he’s TOAST.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  345. “kook marxist” at Cato… who knew?!?!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  346. Now there’s a surprise…

    Comment by ColonelHaiku —

    And it’s the truth. Icy is right that I left the quotes off. I didn’t even realize you wanted me to include them. Why would someone expect every, or even any, articles on the Romney Dynasty to use that four word phrase in that order? It’s a weird way to say it.

    Romney Dynasty already implies the word family. And it’s clearly already talking about a political issue, so that’s also implied.

    Ah, but you chose google searches as the metric, and there are millions of hits if I just search for romney dynasty.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  347. Fredo… got time for a boat ride?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  348. Ah yes I’m gullible because I don’t suck on Romneys tit.

    SCREW YOU PUNK.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  349. the icy waters
    of blue Lake Tahoe beckon
    food for Mackinaw

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  350. “kook marxist” at Cato… who knew?!?!

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 1:50 pm

    Reihan Salam wrote the article you cited. He admires Marxist G. A. Cohen, having called him brilliant. He says the GOP is “an evolutionary dead end.” Because we don’t dole goodies to the working man.

    Once again, you cite editorials instead of hard facts.

    Federal Tax Burdens and Expenditures: Texas is a Donor State
    Texas taxpayers receive less federal funding per dollar of federal taxes paid compared to the average state. Per dollar of Federal tax collected in 2005, Texas citizens received approximately $0.94 in the way of federal spending. This ranks the state 35th nationally and represents a slight decrease from 1995, when Texas received $0.95 per dollar of federal taxes paid (ranking them 37th nationally). Neighboring states and the amount of federal spending they received per dollar of federal taxation paid were as follows: New Mexico ($2.03), Oklahoma ($1.36), Arkansas ($1.41), and Louisiana ($1.78).

    Yeah, Haiku, you can deny facts and make a big mess, but you never win these arguments.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  351. Big Cuke 21… biden O

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  352. it’s not like being a donor state is a sign of super great governance – the more extra money you give the federal government of failmerica the more they squander it on solyndras and volts and silly McCain wars in Libya

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  353. re:352… Chris Edwards of Cato and Politifact were the data in the article, Fredo.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  354. 352 362

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  355. I love how Haiku takes an article from one guy, who quotes another guy, and then this editorial of his suddenly has the credibility of the organization of the quoted guy.

    The original source for the ‘Texas is not a donor state’ claim is just politifact.

    As I linked above, math shows politifact was actually being biased in their analysis.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  356. it’s not like being a donor state is a sign of super great governance – the more extra money you give the federal government of failmerica the more they squander it on solyndras and volts and silly McCain wars in Libya

    No, and no one said that. You wrote that Texans pay in more than they get back and that is not the trend.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  357. re:352… Chris Edwards of Cato and Politifact were the data in the article, Fredo.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 1:56 pm

    Politifact was the ‘data’, and it’s just an editorial. Chris QUOTED politifact, and was not additional ‘data’.

    The author of your link was neither of these folks, but rather someone who is biased as well.

    I provided hard data, as did Happyfeet.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  358. keep flailing, Fredo. Lake. Tahoe. Beckons.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  359. meh. This doesn’t matter anyway. It’s yet another diversion from the thread topic.

    Those who actually think Texas’s record is poor are facing a daunting task. Texas is obviously doing very nicely for attracting business and jobs. All the ugly rhetoric in the world can’t change that.

    Perry doesn’t even set the policy on what Texans pay the federal government, nor what they send back to us.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  360. The Colonel is correct, Dustin. That was EXTREMELY disingenuous of you.

    Comment by Icy — 10/15/2011 @ 8:27 am

    In what way?

    I wasn’t lying about that. I googled the terms Haiku named [Romney Family Political Dynasty] and there are eight hundred thousand hits discussing the political dynasty thing, which again, I didn’t intend to make a huge issue out of.

    And then Fredo writes: “And it’s the truth. Icy is right that I left the quotes off. I didn’t even realize you wanted me to include them. Why would someone expect every, or even any, articles on the Romney Dynasty to use that four word phrase in that order?”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJMKupYF14I

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  361. Fredo’s backtrackin’
    he’s backtrackin’… backtrackin’
    Fredo’s backtrackin’

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  362. Now on to more important things, like a late lunch.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  363. I like Perry kind of I think he’s better than Romney and probably Cain, just cause we know pretty well how he’ll govern. But Cain is better than Romney and better than Ron Paul and better than the crazy lady and better than the man with the nasty google problem. But then so is Perry.

    Hmmmm.

    I got it! We need to ask Cain and Perry if you were a type of Halloween candy what kind of candy would you be?

    Whoever said Alprose Tommy Choco Teddy Bears would instantly stand out from the pack I think.

    Yum!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  364. I keep thinking about Haiku googling ‘Romney Dynasty’ and realizing it’s a widely discussed concept, and instead of coming in here to say ‘Dustin, you were right, I stand corrected’ (as he should have done a few times by now) he instead just started adding in additional search terms. Even then, he had hundreds of thousands of results, so he put it in quotes, and had a term that is oddly redundant, and obviously no one would use it, and lo and behold it turns out it’s only on the internet a couple of times. (did he say four time? doesn’t really matter).

    And he runs in here to announce he proved there is no Romney Dynasty.

    This is how the guy thinks a person should act.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  365. Project much Icy?

    Comment by DohBiden — 10/15/2011 @ 2:12 pm

    I respect Icy’s opinion, which is why I thanked him for explaining his objection to my argument, and explained myself to him. I trust he’ll answer my yes or no question honestly, too.

    He’s differing with me in good faith.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  366. Remember Perrybots… aw-shucks folksiness ain’t a substitute for seriousness, and serious-minded people who sincerely want to see Obama voted out of office must have very little patience for those who pretend otherwise.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  367. I like Cain marginally better than Perry now I think … a lot cause of Perry’s dorky inability to slap down that hateful Jeffress douchebag.

    Perry seems to think he can skate to the white house by pandering to trailer park religious kooks. You know – the ones what look at his batty wife’s 80′s perm and say my what nice hair. Those ones.

    But Cain is more on message about the spendings and about the taxings and plus he can make sentences.

    But really I get the feeling that we’re doing this wrong wrong wrong.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  368. col

    chris edwards also said frist was the best guv evah and took over ratings from a guy who thought Perry was the best

    i have spoken with Chris, he acknowledges that the bus tax Perry put in actually reduced the amt business owed but said Perry should have eliminated it alltogether which wasnt possible since at the time the texas house was essentially 50-50 tied.

    Perry was sued by several school districts and the courts were indicating that unless changes were made the cap might be ignored

    edwards did not take any of this into account, his predecessor was more able and more savy Edwards just isnt that great.

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  369. I like Cain marginally better than Perry now I think … a lot cause of Perry’s dorky inability to slap down that hateful Jeffress douchebag.

    Cain is great, Happyfeet. I would be fine with Cain. I have a few gripes with him too, but they are more or less on the same level as my gripes with Perry.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  370. Remember Perrybots… aw-shucks folksiness ain’t a substitute for seriousness, and serious-minded people who sincerely want to see Obama voted out of office must have very little patience for those who pretend otherwise.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 2:17 pm

    Some of us want more than a Republican in the white house. We want the country saved from what we think is a crisis of entitlement spending.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  371. I have a few gripes with Cain too Mr. Dustin. But I’m willing to wait and see how he behaves in the general. Perry is hell-bent on driving mormons out of the Team R tent, or at least highly apathetic about the possibility. He doesn’t think like a president I don’t think. Plus keeping Perry around keeps immigration on the table, which is a stupid and distracting issue for America at this time.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  372. We want the country saved from what we think is a crisis of entitlement spending.

    yes yes yes and miss mittens who invented obamacare and has an absolute terror of carbon dioxide molecules is not the man with the plan

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  373. Hugh Hewitt interviews Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum:

    http://www.hughhewitt.com/blog/g/167995c2-a313-4353-b132-8c8c47c3e032

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  374. Romney and Santorum are two of the three who have displayed the energy, smarts and desire required to tackle our nation’s problems

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  375. Santorum is even more 80s than Anita Perry’s hair

    plus he has a nasty google problem

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  376. Remember Romneybots changing your mind for the convenience of a presidental run is kinda tarded.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  377. Anyone who won’t vote for Cain as president because he hurt the ego of Rick Perry is the enemy as far as I’m concerned.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  378. Instead of giving him a personal insult, you need to present the many conservatives who say they won’t support Romney in the general with an ARGUMENT.
    Comment by Dustin — 10/15/2011 @ 11:13 am

    Not a Republican, so appeals to party loyalty are going to fall on deaf ears. Romney is the latest in a long line of “annointed” candidates from the political elite who gave us McCain. I’m not saying (yet) I absolutely won’t vote for him, but it’s not a lock by any means. For now, I’m mostly just scanning the comments and the constant personal attacks have gotten boring. I don’t have a preferred candidate of those running, so I’d like to learn the positives of each more than the negatives.

    Want to turn off independents and people who honestly have different preferences than your candidate? Keep it up. Marginalize us as stupid or downright evil. See how well that works (again). I’ll most likely vote Romney if he’s the nominee, but only to keep President Obama from a second term. If the Romney supporters continue to imitate the McCain-types from 2008, all bets are off. My two cents and I doubt I’m completely alone.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  379. I hope you’re doing well, Stash. I know you’re way too busy to worry about moderating here. All political stuff aside, we all are thinking of you.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  380. Remember Romney And Perry support putting troops on our orders but it is Cain who is the anti-immigrant tancredo-type ultra righty villain.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  381. Perry is hell-bent on driving mormons out of the Team R tent, or at least highly apathetic about the possibility.

    I think he simply didn’t dignify the notion he should repudiate the folks who don’t like Mormons. That’s tricky. I think folks who get bent out of shape bashing Mormons are pretty strange. Mormons are completely benign family people. That’s all someone external to their faith needs to know. But on the other hand, many religions think other religions are going to hell, are an affront to God, etc (Mormons are actually unusual in that this is not what they think at all).

    Is Perry to wade into the swamp of telling baptists their religious view that x,y,z are going to hell is wrong? I think that’s a trap and he should ignore it. On the other hand, in the interview I linked (I think in this thread) he makes a point of his religion, so he’s trying to have his cake and eat it too.

    This is all a nothing issue to me. If Romney were the methodist, and Perry were the Mormon, I would not change my support.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  382. When you want to electricute people to death, or shoot them, you have jumped the shark.

    NEIN, NEIN, NEIN.

    retire05 (a9f846)

  383. Unless your Perry or Romney your just looking out for teh folks when you put troops on borders.

    Hypocrite.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  384. DohBiden, name calling seems to be your forte. Debate, on the other hand……………………

    retire05 (a9f846)

  385. Hypocrite is name-calling?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  386. This situation is amusing in several ways, sometimes
    the facts don’t matter, as we discovered with a certain lower level candidate, when the charges of embezzlement, default on the house, among others proved bogus, you could hear crickets in the background, and the notion, that some of a certain declared candidates’s supporters, were among the most venomous of detractors, I refer to the Jakarta Jemadar in particular, pikachu pretty much hates every candidate,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  387. Obama-I could see North Korea from my house

    :lol: B-but North Korea is nowhere near Chicago

    DohBiden (d54602)

  388. Imagine Palin running our country we’d be in war-Leftys

    Obama is running our country and we’re in wars.

    Lefturd hypocrites.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  389. I don’t think so Dustin Mr. Governor Perry has to know that he’s collected many mormon votes in Texas over the years. Now he’s telling the mormons thanks for the votes, hellbound sinners! See ya wouldn’t wanna be ya!

    Classy.

    To act like that hatey Jeffress douche has a valid opinion is not appropriate. On the one hand this is why Perry is such a douche to intertwine his white trash religious views so inextricably with his political views. He’s accountable for both. On the other hand I really think he’s so inarticulate that he didn’t know anything better to say when Snuffleupagus asked him about his mormon-hating little friend.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  390. Why do the left repeat the MSM lies about Palin vis-a vis russia?

    If she were a lefty who had made the crack they would agree with it and praise her for not bowing to wingnut history or something.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  391. Unless you’re an apologetic banking scion, like Molly Ivins, or a low down rattler like Hightower,
    as a Texan one is generally otwardly expressive of religion, that being said, Jeffress said the wrong
    thing at the wrong time,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  392. Dustin, don’t argue with anyone who uses terms like “douche” to express their opinion of someone. You might as well argue with a common garden slug.

    Oh, wait……………

    retire05 (a9f846)

  393. Happy

    that Pastor never made that comment, that was a nasty MSM hack who cornered him in his office two hours later and he made those remarks, and then wrote the article that this was apart of the perry Event instead of when its after

    and as long as fast and furious is in the news unfortunately the demonization of 30 to 40% of good Americans will continue

    You are more than right on that point but illegal immigration keeps people from having to do real work like rolling back the freebies that are not so free anymore

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  394. So crappyfeet can use all sorts of ad hominems but i cannot?

    And btw he was not talking to me dumbass.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  395. He repeated the same argument on F&F, among other venues,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  396. I meant never made that comment from the podium – this hachett job reminds me of connie Chung and newts g-mah

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  397. Ian

    Yes he did but he is not Ricks Pastor – not at all – Rick is not even an evangelical – he’s a methodist, his wife is a lutheran

    there are about a dozen Baptist mega churches with 10,000 to 50,000 active parishioners

    Dallas Prestonwood, 1st,2nd,3rd baptist churches all hate mormons

    Houston, 2nd, 1st, Clear Springs, Cypresswood Baptist

    San Antonio, 2nd

    Austin a whole slew of them

    All hate mormons

    from their membership is over 1/2 of the elected

    Kay Bailey, cornyn, and a whole passel of democrat and repiublican representatives and about 40% of the entire state judiciary and sgtate houses (both parties)

    so these churches are a big big big deal in Texas

    They have never supported Perry

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  398. I am not going to even bother asking for cites for all of those arsepulls.

    JD (6d8a47)

  399. He is the same person who called Palin and Tancredo neo-nazi racists.

    Nice to see the OSW protesters and the Islamonazis come together.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  400. I don’t give a flying fig about the “Romney Dynasty”. Personally, I didn’t need to play with my Google to remember that his governor father also ran for president.

    I don’t give a flying fig about Romney’s religion; neither do I care about what ANY of Rick Perry’s supporters say (EPWJ least of all). I care about what the candidate himself says.

    Icy (still a Texan -- until the end of the month) (6e1416)

  401. Romney changes his mind so much it makes me dizzy.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  402. “Today’s front-page feature on Mitt Romney​’s career as a leader in the Mormon Church in the New York Times has the feel of an article whose purpose was basically unfulfilled. Sheryl Gay Stolberg’s agenda seems to have been to dig up as much dirt as she could about the Republican’s activities. But unfortunately for the Times, she didn’t find much if anything that would embarrass the candidate.

    As much as Romney has become a familiar national political figure in the last several years, it may be that many of us didn’t know that for a considerable period of time he was actually the lay head of the Mormon faith in the Boston area. But one put the piece down not so much thinking about its contents as saying that if this is the worst they can say about him, he’s not likely to provide Democratic opposition researchers with much fodder.

    The one negative story that the piece highlighted concerned Romney’s apparent opposition when a church member was contemplating an abortion. This elicited a stinging rebuke from a Mormon who is feminist dissident within the church. While any discussion of abortion highlights the fact that Romney has changed his position over the years, it may also reassure conservatives who don’t trust his current pro-life stand.

    But everything else in the story paints a picture of a caring and involved churchman who showed both compassion toward congregants and support for others working for the church. It also portrays him as a take-charge leader, which is, after all, the sort of characteristic that is needed in a president.”

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/10/16/romney-mormon-background/

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  403. Romneys mormonism shouldn’t be a problem.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  404. You’re right, DohBiden; it shouldn’t be a problem; however, thanks to certain Socialist pieces of crap — chief among them, Lawrence O’Donnell — it will be.

    Icy (still a Texan -- until the end of the month) (f2895f)

  405. Icy, Socialism has a bad enough reputation that you shouldn’t further sully it by an association with O’Donnell, who would have to crawl (slither) upward to attain residence under a cow-pie.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (4fd205)

  406. Did you know Lawrence O’donnell and the devil are brothers?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  407. Which one is the “Good Son”?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (4fd205)

  408. Cathy Seipp castrated Lawrence O’Donnell before she left these mortal coils.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  409. This nation is in dire need of leaders who can bring enough Americans together to effect the changes we need. Our economy – for better or worse – is tied to the global economy and I don’t think there’s a candidate in the current field who is better equipped, in this respect, than Mitt Romney.

    Perry, Cain, Bachmann, Huntsman, Paul, and Santorum don’t have the tools. Gingrich may, but I don’t believe he is electable.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  410. Neither Drew.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  411. Mitt Romney wants to be president sooooooooo bad

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  412. Chicago police
    arrest one seventy five
    no tents in Grant Park!

    elissa (c316c0)

  413. peas peas peas can I huh can I huh PEAS I said peas c’mon peas peas I’ll clean my room I promise

    mitt romney (3c92a1)

  414. Romney is the anal ulcer on the butt of america.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  415. For what it’s worth, The New York Times reports today that Mitt Romney was the highest ranking Mormon in the Boston area – a leading figure from 1981 to 1994, first bishop and then later stake president, and helped build a temple.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/us/politics/for-romney-a-role-of-faith-and-authority.html?hp

    It complains:

    “In ticking off his credentials on the campaign trail — management consultant, businessman, governor — Mitt Romney omits what may have been his most distinctive post: Mormon lay leader, offering pastoral guidance on all manner of human affairs from marriage to divorce, abortion, adoption, addiction, unemployment and even business disputes…..Mr. Romney declined to be interviewed for this article”

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  416. how is that a distinctive post

    he probably bought it I bet and did minimal actual work

    mitt romney (3c92a1)

  417. 258. Néstor Kirchner died suddenly in October, 2010, so his wife is going to have to run for re-election by herself instead of doing a Putin-like turnover.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  418. oops that was me not Mr. Romney

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  419. Well said.

    I think it was quite stupid to attempt to use a dumb google search to argue that there is no Romney dynasty.

    Also, it’s worth noting Romney has dozens of politicians in the family.

    It’s an interesting aspect of his background. I like to know what Obama’s background is, and I also like to know what the background of the various Republican candidates are.

    Agreed that Mormonism is not a worthwhile argument pro or con Romney.

    I am confused why you care what Romney says. His rampant flip flops mean anything Romney says has zero credibility. He could promise you literally anything, and turn around and promise the opposite to the next guy.

    And that’s why Romney is less electable than some of his competitors. The right needs someone they believe in. A leader who doesn’t follow the polls, but leads with his principles.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  420. My above was a reply to Icy. The quote didn’t show up (my fault).

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  421. The New York Times article didn’t have anything bad, unless you just don’t like the Mormon religion.

    Yes maybe hetold a woman not to have an abortion when doctors wanted to give her an abortion because of aproblem with blood clots

    (This doesn’t discuss what this was all about,but they probably wanted to give her blood thinners but didn’t want to do that while she was carrying a baby and probably they were concerned about the baby in that case. Risk harming the baby, no. Kill the baby for certain, yes. Romney didn’t agree with kind of medical ethics)

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  422. But I would like Icy to answer my question.

    If he were looking for information about the Romney dynasty, would he use Haiku’s method? Or would he use something that didn’t eliminate 100% of articles about it?

    Granted, Icy notes he doesn’t care about the issue. But I think my search terms actually led to the information, and Haikus deliberately excluded them, so my rebuttal to Haiku seems pretty reasonable.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  423. If this analysis of the issue is correct, the doctors probably really were worried about being sued for malpractice. It is not malpractice to do an abortion. It might be considered malpractice to do something that could harm the baby if the intention was to bring the baby to term.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  424. Those were in the days when Mitt Romney was against abortion before he was tolerating it, before he was against it again maybe.

    The Mormon position apparently is that abortions shouldn’t be done except in extreme cases, and only with the approval of church elders – and that was him.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  425. Sammy, it’s a shame the NYT is going there. But they intend to do that to anyone the GOP nominates. Cain is a minister, Perry is a Methodist but will be portrayed as a hick evangelical anyway, and Romney has a religion some don’t like, for reasons I don’t really understand.

    This is all the more lame because Obama actually is that rare politician whose religious practices are objectionable. And I am sure that when Romney or Perry or whomever attempts to react to the left’s palinization on religious grounds by citing Rev Wright, the left will claim that’s unfair.

    I’m not sure what the best way to respond is, but Romney seems to be pretty normal in private life. His kids are good people. He’s got a good marriage. As far as I know, the same is true of more of his competitors, too. The voters probably won’t take these attacks seriously.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  426. Those were in the days when Mitt Romney was against abortion before he was tolerating it, before he was against it again maybe.

    That’s right.

    Though even when Romney was pro Abortion rights, he said Abortion was bad, basically in the way Hillary says so. Unfortunately, he specifically named Roe V Wade as good law, and I think that means anything he says from a federalist perspective is not sincere. Such as his defense of Romneycare, which I think is pretty well undermined by his MIA status when Obamacare was under serious debate and folks like Perry and Palin were rallying TEA partiers about how it’s unconstitutional.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  427. finkleman, no need for suppositions, here are the facts:

    “Human life is a sacred gift from God. Elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God. Church members who submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions may lose their membership in the Church.”

    http://lds.org/study/topics/abortion?lang=eng&query=abortion

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  428. Carrie Prejean would not be allowed to have her opinion in Romneyworld well she would have but then Romney would have screamed about homophobia.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  429. Elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God. Church members who submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions may lose their membership in the Church.

    This doesn’t contradict Sammy’s summary.

    The Mormon position apparently is that abortions shouldn’t be done except in extreme cases, and only with the approval of church elders – and that was him.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman

    I think this summary would be a reasonable view, if that is the Mormon view. What you responded with was a platitude rather than a policy.

    Are you Mormon, Haiku? If so, is Sammy’s summary correct? Sincerely curious to learn more about Mormonism, not because of Mitt (whom I don’t really think is religious at all).

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  430. pro-tip: if you’re mormon and you want an abortion … don’t tell the church!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  431. I know a few Methodists – they are good people – I don’t think they are racists and I would certainly not blame them or Governor Rick Perry for the past history of extremely racist practices of their religion.

    “Racism Influences Methodists’ History

    Racism has been a defining force in shaping the Methodist movement in the United States from its earliest days.

    Today, the United Methodist Church is confronting that past. It has repented for its racism, and launched efforts to fight racism in the denomination and society at large. It is also seeking reconciliation with African American Methodists.

    “The history is important to understand the present,” says Bishop Forrest Stith of Upper Marlboro, Md. He is championing a move to establish a heritage center to preserve the historical journey of African-Americans in the United Methodist Church.

    “If you haven’t been around a long time, it’s a history that people are quickly forgetting,” says Bishop Melvin G. Talbert of Nashville, Tenn., who became one of the first church’s first African-American bishops when he was elected in 1980.

    African Americans were among the first Methodists in the United States, attending the early revival meetings and contributing two popular preachers – Harry Hosier and Richard Allen – to the church. Racist attitudes were already at work, as African Americans were forced to sit in church balconies and receive Holy Communion after their fellow white worshipers.

    In 1787, Allen and other black Methodists walked out of St. George’s Methodist Episcopal Church in Philadelphia to protest their treatment by whites. Allen later helped establish the African Methodist Episcopal Church and became its first bishop.

    The AME Church was the first of three historically black denominations that were created because of racism in the predominantly white Methodist church. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church was organized in 1796 by blacks protesting discrimination at John Street Methodist Church in New York City. The Christian Methodist Episcopal Church (originally the Colored Methodist Episcopal Church) was created in 1870 as the result of an agreement between white and black members of the Methodist Episcopal Church, South.

    The formation of the Methodist Episcopal Church, South, reflected the fact that even white Methodists could not agree on issues of race and slavery. Methodism’s founder, John Wesley, was an outspoken opponent of slavery, denouncing it as evil, and the Methodist Episcopal Church held to his view. However, the Southern churches broke away in 1844.

    In 1939, relationships finally began to mend, and the Methodist Episcopal Church, Methodist Episcopal Church, South, and a third denomination, the Methodist Protestant Church, reunited to form the Methodist Church. However, Southern white churches still did not wish to “annual conference” with black churches.

    The uniting churches resolved their problem by creating the Central Jurisdiction, a unit of the new denomination based not on geography but race. The church remained segregated for nearly 30 years, until the Methodists merged with the Evangelical United Brethren to form the United Methodist Church. With that 1968 merger, the Central Jurisdiction’s churches, clergy and bishops were integrated into the denomination’s five U.S. geographical jurisdictions.

    At the beginning of the 21st century, the United Methodist Church is focusing on racism and promoting diversity with more vigor than ever. It is actively promoting more inclusiveness and diversity in its institutions and leadership. One of its 14 church-wide agencies, the Commission on Religion and Race, focuses on those issues, and caucuses such as Black Methodists for Church Renewal and Methodists Associated Representing the Cause of Hispanic Americans also keep them in front of the church. Through programs such as Strengthening the Black Church for the 21st Century, the National Plan for Hispanic Ministries, the Council on Korean-American Ministries and the Native American Comprehensive Plan, the denomination is building up racial-ethnic congregations.”

    http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdXt_SptO8jEAv9pXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2cmhlcHJvBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01TWUMwMDFfMTc1/SIG=12bm53id1/EXP=1318828799/**http%3a//archives.umc.org/interior.asp%3fptid=1%26mid=664

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  432. pro-tip: if you’re mormon and you want an abortion … don’t tell the church!

    Comment by happyfeet — 10/16/2011 @ 2:25 pm

    That probably applies to most denominations of most religions.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  433. I think Haiku is trying to post a link to the United Methodist Church.

    They don’t like abortion, if that was what Haiku was attempting to convey.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  434. I know a few Methodists – they are good people – I don’t think they are racists and I would certainly not blame them or Governor Rick Perry for the past history of extremely racist practices of their religion.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  435. Mormons take the cake for having a racist past I think. Plus once they bizarrely up and massacred random people like animals.

    Who else is racist are baptists a lot of times.

    It’s a thing.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  436. I don’t care about the Romney political dynasty any more than I care about the Bush dynasty or the Kennedy dynasty or any other ‘family of politicians’. I only care about what Mitt would do as president. And you’re right, Dustin. His record as a panderer and a flip-flopper makes the prospect of a Romney presidency quite troubling.

    My problem with you is that your obsession with ‘the dynasty’ seems to be much ado about nothing, and that your false or misleading Google number strikes of a desperate attempt to inflate the importance of something that, frankly, I don’t think most voters really care about.

    Icy (still a Texan -- until the end of the month) (f2895f)

  437. BTW, I used to be a Methodist. They emphasize ministering to all women, including those in trouble. Even, or perhaps especially, those who had an abortion, whom the church would want to support despite the egregious sin. The idea of kicking a woman out of a Methodist church for having an abortion would be pretty absurd, actually.

    The UMC is also very good about tolerance for races.

    The reason it’s “United” is that the United Methodist Church actually brought several denominations together, including the United Brethren, which was extremely opposed to slavery and racism nearly 200 years ago.

    It’s an interesting contrast between they and Mormons on many issues, and I enjoy Haiku’s mentioning of the Methodist view.

    Haiku’s right that there have been some racist Methodists in the 18th century.

    While Haiku claims he won’t blame Rick Perry for what some methodists were like in the 1780s, I wonder if that’s one of the nastiest bits of passive aggressive commentary I’ve ever seen on this blog.

    BTW, why blame Perry for something he wasn’t even alive during?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  438. you know who else is racist are labor unions

    it’s disgraceful

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  439. Ceappyfeet is an ass.

    Rick Perry is really 460 years old dont’cha know.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  440. Yes, Happyfeet… it is a sad, historical fact:

    “President Hinckley Dedicates Mountain Meadows Monument

    In addition to dedicating three temples during August and September, President Hinckley dedicated a newly rebuilt monument at Mountain Meadows, Utah; spoke at a youth fireside in Spokane, Washington; dedicated a new building at Ricks College in Rexburg, Idaho; and participated in commencement and a fund-raising celebration at BYU in Provo, Utah.

    Mountain Meadows Monument

    “Let the book of the past be closed,” said President Hinckley to about 1,000 people gathered on 11 September at the site of the 1857 massacre of more than 80 emigrants on their way to California. “Let peace come into our hearts. Let friendship and love be extended. May the peace of heaven be felt over this hallowed ground.”

    To memorialize the slain emigrants, the Church recently rebuilt a cairn that was originally erected in 1859 and subsequently rebuilt several times, including once in 1932 by the Church. The tall pile of rocks is now surrounded by a low, flower-adorned stone wall and a taller iron fence. President Hinckley said that the Church “will be here as long as the earth lasts, and it will take care of this place.”

    Relayed by satellite transmission to meetinghouses in Arkansas, southern Utah, the Salt Lake area, and Idaho, the service was viewed by descendants of those involved in the tragedy. To prepare the site and assist in construction, about 1,000 local members and friends donated nearly 4,000 hours of labor. The monument is located about 30 miles northwest of St. George, Utah.

    “This is an emotional experience for me,” said President Hinckley. “I come as peacemaker. This is not a time for recrimination or the assignment of blame. No one can explain what happened in these meadows 142 years ago. We may speculate, but we do not know. We do not understand it. We cannot comprehend it. We can only say the past is long since gone. It cannot be recalled. It cannot be changed. It is time to leave the entire matter in the hands of God, who deals justly in all things. His is a wisdom far beyond our own.”

    President Hinckley continued: “I sit in the chair that Brigham Young occupied as President of the Church at the time of the tragedy. I have read very much of the history of what occurred here. There is no question in my mind that he was opposed to what happened. Had there been a faster means of communication, it never would have happened and history would have been different. That which we have done here must never be construed as an acknowledgment on the part of the Church of any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful and tragic day. But we have an obligation. We have a moral responsibility. We have a Christian duty to honor, respect, and to do all feasible to remember and recognize those who died here.”

    The day before the dedication, descendants of the wagon train pioneers held a two-hour memorial service and re-interred the remains of 29 men, women, and children that had been accidentally uncovered during construction of the new monument.”

    http://lds.org/ensign/1999/11/news-of-the-church/president-hinckley-dedicates-mountain-meadows-monument?lang=eng&query=mountain+meadow+massacre

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  441. it’s not sad so much as lesson in how people can get carried away

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  442. as *a* lesson I mean

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  443. My problem with you is that your obsession with ‘the dynasty’ seems to be much ado about nothing, and that your false or misleading Google number strikes of a desperate attempt to inflate the importance of something that, frankly, I don’t think most voters really care about.

    I think that’s fair. Again, I only wanted to mention this dynasty for a minor point about Perry and Romney’s different backgrounds. I think growing up on a farm and then serving in the military is more character building than growing up in a family where everyone wants to be a politician.

    My problem with you is that your obsession with ‘the dynasty’ seems to be much ado about nothing, and that your false or misleading Google number strikes of a desperate attempt to inflate the importance of something that, frankly, I don’t think most voters really care about.

    If you were searching for information on the Romney Dynasty, would you seriously expect Haiku’s terms to lead to any information about it? With the quotes, you have a forced and redundant phrase no one would use.

    There are many articles on the Romney Dynasty, and in fact I didn’t use Google to prove it. I simply quoted Mitt talking about it. It’s Haiku who decided to use google search terms that make absolutely no sense in quotes, as the phrase would never appear anywhere.

    That’s why I’ve asked you, very politely, four times, if you would use that term to find any information about this topic.

    I never tried to inflate the importance of this issue. In fact, this is what I said immeadiately when I responded to Haiku’s search I said this:

    And again, I didn’t intend for this to become a major point of controversy. It’s a minor point, though an interesting difference in the backgrounds of these two candidates, one of whom relates to you and me far better than the other.

    I only noted the eight hundred thousand results to show that Haiku was being dishonest. Which he clearly was, as there is no sane reason to put that search term in quotes.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  444. it’s not sad so much as a lesson in how people can get carried away

    Yes, just as the American citizens of Illinois, Ohio, Missouri and elsewhere killed, pillaged and just generally made life miserable for followers of the LDS faith.

    Thankfully, it’s in the past.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  445. In Texas where I come from every day is Be Nice To Mormons Day!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  446. oh – I just remembered – even more racist than the Baptists? Church of Christ! I don’t know what it is with them people. They’re not adjusting well to modern life, some of them.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  447. Yes, but do they forbid dancing?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  448. some of them, maybe – they’re not as centralized as other denominations

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  449. meaning they’re not all on the same page

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  450. Yeah gotta love the babykilling pro-abortion libtard RINOs over at hot air complaining about Cain being unchristian and inhumane.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  451. Ouch. My last comment posted without being edited. Sorry for the weird quoting, Icy.

    I hope you see that we’re actually agreeing that this is a minor issue, and I said it was before you said it was, in fact right when I noted that when I did Haiku’s search I got tons of results.

    I, in good faith, thought he wasn’t putting that in quotes, but rather using quotes to signify what he searched. That’s why I keep asking you if you’d search with those terms in quotes. That would be absurd if you were sincerely trying to learn about this issue.

    Yes, just as the American citizens of Illinois, Ohio, Missouri and elsewhere killed, pillaged and just generally made life miserable for followers of the LDS faith.

    Thankfully, it’s in the past.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    Yes, this is not a relevant aspect of today’s world. Today, Mormons are not particularly persecuted, nor are they particularly racist. There are surely exceptions, but they are truly exceptions. Methodists have a really great history including some of america’s greatest abolitionists, but I never thought of that as ‘methodist’ history. Mormons should take just as much pride in that as Methodists would.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  452. some allow the boogaloo, others denounce the electric slide? What about the Shy Tuna?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  453. Yes, but do they forbid dancing?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    Baptists, not universally. Methodists, obviously no.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  454. “Agreed that Mormonism is not a worthwhile argument pro or con Romney.”

    okfine, here is another argument that Romney cannot beat Obama.

    again, the only reason any conservative would vote for Romney is electability.
    so what happens …. if mormonism renders Mitt unelectable?
    there is a portion of the electorate that says they will never vote for Romney specifically because of the mormon issue..

    wheeler's cat (e07004)

  455. i mean, it seems to me the conservative base doesn’t care for Romney.

    wheeler's cat (e07004)

  456. I guess if I were to reply in kind and ask what Mormons ban, that would be wrong.

    Though Haiku is the guy damning people to hell over their good faith comments on a blog, so my guess is he’s more than a little wound up for his agenda.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  457. That was one of the reasons I detested the Huck, the other he was a porkhogging soft on crime weasel.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  458. That was one of the reasons I detested the Huck, the other he was a porkhogging soft on crime weasel.

    Comment by ian cormac — 10/16/2011 @ 3:06 pm
    /blockquote>

    It specifically drove me to supporting Romney in 2008. I wasn’t sure which RINO, Mccain or Romney, would be worse, both were pretty lame on policy, but Romney had some executive experience, tons of business experience, and mostly, it would renounce Huckabee’s BS to support Romney.

    This is probably why Romney has tried to highlight Perry’s bigotry with this pastor from a different denomination than Perry’s, whom Perry didn’t plan and has no more control over than Romney does.

    It’s probably also similar to why Cain said he found Perry’s rock insensitive before knowing the facts on the issue.

    My point is that bigotry backfires.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  459. Alledgedly joking about frying mexican babies=Evil

    Aborting them=A-ok womens right.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  460. “The United Methodist Church began in the early 1970s to view abortion as a “choice”. The United Methodist position in favor of abortion has been so strong that two of its institutions helped organize and affiliate with the Religious Coalition for Abortion Rights. For many years RCAR used office space in the United Methodist Building which is located across the street from the U.S. Supreme Court. In both 1996 and 1997 the United Methodist Church publicly supported President Clinton’s veto of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act. While the 1996 United Methodist Church’s Book of Discipline still maintains a strong pro-abortion position, it now includes wording recognizing the “sanctity of unborn human life.” It further states, “We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection.”

    http://www.pregnantpause.org/people/wherchur.htm

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  461. But don’t electrify them.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  462. abortion is a thing for sure

    it doesn’t bother me when people I don’t know get abortions

    it doesn’t bother me when people I do know get abortions

    it’s just they can get really moody so you have to think carefully what to say before speaking to them

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  463. Your an idiot.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  464. and they get to pick where you go to lunch

    that’s just part of the deal

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  465. Hey you wanna marry your right hand?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  466. Haiku is searching for anything critical of methodists… why?

    Rick Perry has never flip flopped on abortion. We don’t need to look at what his church’s leadership says on it, though I should note that Methodists do believe in the sanctity of human life of an unborn child.

    I think Haiku misunderstands the relevance. Romney’s flip flop isn’t just a problem for those who are pro life. It’s a problem for those who don’t like being shamelessly pandered to by liars who express outspoken support for one policy and then pretend they changed their mind right with the people he’s campaigning to change.

    What’s sad is that Haiku is again being extremely dishonest. He’s linking the archive of the UMC’s OLD position, which was changed in 2008. He would have to work around the current policy to find the obsolete one.

    Why go that far just to bash someone’s faith, Haiku? What’s wrong with you?

    Haiku did the same thing when bashing Perry on border control. The extremist group he linked actually currently rates Perry as “excellent” on this, so Haiku instead linked the archived one where it’s merely “good” to dispute me specifically noting he’s rated excellent.

    Who gets so wound up shilling for Mitt Romney of all people?

    That he keeps turning to religious aspects suggests perhaps Romney has passed a religious test and Haiku has no tolerance for those who are thinking a little more clearly. In fact, he damned me to hell for my commentary even though I’ve obviously gone out of my way to be kinder to him than he’s been to me.

    What a nutcase.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  467. Romney said he might be able to back a different version of the Freedom of Choice Act. His adviser Charles Manning told the Boston Herald Romney “supports a federal health care option that includes abortion services, would vote for a law codifying the 1972 [sic] Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion and backs federal funding for abortions as long as states can decide they want the money.”

    Most bizarrely, Manning even told a newspaper that Massachusetts Citizens for Life had endorsed Romney because he had been pro-choice longer than Ted Kennedy.

    “[Kennedy] was pro-life before Roe v. Wade and now he’s changed,” Manning said to the Boston Globe. “Mitt has always been consistent in his pro-choice position and that’s why the group respects him.”

    Of course, all this changed when Romney wanted the votes of social conservatives.

    This is such a sacred issue for someone to lie about. Can you imagine actually stump speeching for the opposite of your views on this? For me to stump for more abortion services? For Happyfeet to stump for an end to them?

    It’s sociopathic.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  468. Libtard D.L. Hughley endorsed Ron Paul for president in 2012.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  469. Mitt Romney explains that he has no personal failings.

    I’m exaggerating, but only slightly. Seriously, this guy is messed up upstairs. The entire crowd realizes it and bursts into laughter.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  470. Numberusa is against immigration period.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  471. Updated 10/10/11… Rick Perry receives a D-

    Yes, that’s the one I told you about, and see how it rates Perry as “excellent” for “secures borders”?

    You said this:

    Numbers USA, a group that supports immigration control, gives Perry a “D-“ for his positions supporting amnesty, open borders, and opposing border security.

    A total repudiation of conservative principles.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:30 am

    That is clearly a lie. They say Perry is excellent for supporting border security. They don’t rate him at all for amnesty.

    You lied. Plain and simple. It’s just another great example of how Colonel Haiku is a liar, and stupid enough to think he can get away with it.

    And once again, you respond to being corrected by watering down your claims.

    Yeah, Numbers USA gives Perry a D-. Because they oppose LEGAL immigration. They are that extreme.

    They give most Republicans F grades. You say this one rating is a ‘total repudiation’ of a candidate, but they give Romney a C-, so it’s not like they support him either.

    You’re a liar, Haiku. Most of your comments have some element of sleaze or dishonesty.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  472. Leftys love to blame Palin for Mccain losing even though it was Mccain himself.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  473. And note how Haiku totally ignores my claim that he’s linking archived sources because the current one doesn’t say what he wants? Check out his original link to Numbers USA and my link as well. I linked the current one, and he linked an archived one. I note this and he links the current one while lamely ignoring the difference in what these ratings are saying.

    He did the same thing with the Methodist church website

    This is why he’s telling my I’m ‘dead’ and he wants me to go to hell. He can’t hold his own, so he’s mad.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  474. :roll: Gotta love the tolerance which spews forth from ColonelHaiku.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  475. Oppose Amnesty/Legalization: Perry? Unhelpful
    Mandate E-Verify: Perry? Bad
    Reduce Overall Immigration: Perry? Unhelpful
    End Chain Migration: Perry? Unhelpful
    End Visa Lottery: Perry? Unhelpful
    Limit Unfair Worker Competition: Perry? Bad
    Secure Borders: Perry? Excellent
    Implement Entry/Exit: Perry? Unhelpful
    Support Local Enforcement: Perry? Good
    Punish Business Violators: Perry? Good
    Tackle Refugee Fraud: Perry? Unhelpful
    End Birthright Citizenship: Perry? Unhelpful

    Rick Perry’s Grade? D-

    Another opinion:
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61076.html

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  476. Interestingly, Numbers USA also says Perry is excellent in trying to stop Sanctuary Cities, something both Haiku and Daleyrocks have denied.

    The fact is that if you oppose all legal immigration, you should not support Rick Perry. That organization is not on the same page I am. I suspect this organization is going to endorse Cain, given his recent comments. Otherwise, they will endorse Bachmann.

    The only good point Numbers USA makes against Perry is his E-Verify position. I think if Perry has a problem with E-Verify, he should try to fix it or replace it with a state level system. It’s a very good idea, and he has opposed it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  477. Tom Tancredo wrote:

    “Numbers USA, a group that supports immigration control, gives Perry a “D-“ for his positions supporting amnesty, open borders, and opposing border security.”

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61076.html#ixzz1azM5gGfl

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  478. Haiku, you said they rated Perry a D- because he opposed border security. Now you 100% contradict yourself.

    But I corrected you on this point several times, and you denied it.

    You are a liar, and you’ve been projecting your dishonesty onto anyone who proves it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  479. Nice try moron.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  480. So much for the “new civility”. Stashiu? Please take note of how the Perry supporters continue to make personal attacks.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  481. Haiku, are you saying you plagiarized Tom Tancredo? You weren’t indicating you quoted him earlier. You simply took his comment and linked that source that utterly contradicts your comment.

    Is that what you’ve been doing? Find anyone out there who bashes Perry, and just rip off their comment and present it as your own? And then when you can’t defend the comment, or 100% contradict yourself, you expect to be blameless because you stole the lie in the first place?

    If Tom said that, it’s a lie too. That extremist organization of yours, which thinks I shouldn’t be an American citizen despite being born here and one of my parents legally immigrating here, rated Perry as excellent for the specific aspect you and the guy you plagiarized said was a D-.

    It goes without saying that Perry is well out of step with Numbers USA, and that is great.

    Most candidates appear to get an F from them, anyway.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  482. and the personal attacks continue…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  483. So much for the “new civility”. Stashiu? Please take note of how the Perry supporters continue to make personal attacks.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/16/2011 @ 4:03 pm

    I doubt very much Stash wants to take a side in our fight, but he doesn’t appear to love Romney. Stash has better things to do than police the thread, which is why it’s so lame you’ve been so nasty.

    You called me “dead” and told me to burn in hell after claiming I was homosexual with Perry, and now you whine about personal attacks? My only personal attack lately has been that you are lying. And that I simply proved. There is opinion to it. It is a fact.

    [note: released from moderation. No idea why it was in there. --Stashiu]

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  484. I will not hold the intemperate, unhinged behavior of Perry supporters against the candidate, himself.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  485. btw, I should also note that some of Haiku’s spam has been 100% of copyrighted articles in the thousands of words, a clear violation of the policy of the blog.

    But there’s no one to police the threads lately because the guy who does it is dealing with a family matter.

    That’s why it’s shameful that Haiku can’t respect the rules when no one is watching.

    There is no reason to bring stash into this, but if you do, I don’t think it’s going to go well for you, Haiku.

    [note: released from moderation. No idea why it was in there. --Stashiu]

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  486. And the personal attacks continue

    Amen Colonel just look at comment 508.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  487. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh yes Joseph Stalin Jr. whines to stashiu whenever romney gets called out.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  488. I will not hold the Methodists’ pro-abortion and racist actions of the past against Methodist Rick Perry. I am certain he is a fine man.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  489. I will not hold the intemperate, unhinged behavior of Perry supporters against the candidate, himself.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/16/2011 @ 4:07 pm

    From the guy who said

    You are officially dead to me. See ya in Hell.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/15/2011 @ 11:20 am

    Just a short while in this same thread, among dozens of other unhinged comments and insults.

    And not to mention his recent effort to link Methodists to racism and abortion.

    All I did was note he lied. When he did. I guess he will now try to flood the thread. I would bet most of the decent folks reading the thread do not read all of it, and thus Haiku’s nonsense is pretty helpful at masking his trashy conduct.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  490. The “new civility” continues…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  491. I will not hold the Methodists’ pro-abortion and racist actions of the past against Methodist Rick Perry. I am certain he is a fine man.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/16/2011 @ 4:11 pm

    I think I get it now. You’re pissed off that I noted Romney preached Mormonism while Mormon policy was that black people were inferior.

    You’re trying to respond in kind.

    You moron. I was defending Romney. It wasn’t a hidden insult. If you read the entire comment you’d see that. I think religion is not relevant to this discussion. I think those citing it are going to find good and bad in it, and should drop it entirely.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  492. The “new civility” continues…

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/16/2011 @ 4:14 pm

    I’m being quite civil to someone who tried to bash my sexuality, called me dead, lied about me repeatedly, and called me an asshole among many other insults, repeatedly.

    It is so hilarious how thin your skin is. I honestly did not expect that.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  493. “… For now, I’m mostly just scanning the comments and the constant personal attacks have gotten boring. I don’t have a preferred candidate of those running, so I’d like to learn the positives of each more than the negatives.

    Want to turn off independents and people who honestly have different preferences than your candidate? Keep it up. Marginalize us as stupid or downright evil. See how well that works (again). I’ll most likely vote Romney if he’s the nominee, but only to keep President Obama from a second term. If the Romney supporters continue to imitate the McCain-types from 2008, all bets are off. My two cents and I doubt I’m completely alone.”

    Comment by Stashiu3 — 10/15/2011 @ 5:27 pm

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  494. The Dawning of “The New Civility”… when will dawn break?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  495. You have the nerve to whine about the ”new civility”.

    when you bash Dustins sexuality.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  496. I hope ColonelHaiku gets banned so he can run back to Romney4ever.com

    DohBiden (d54602)

  497. “moron”… “liar”… “lack the intellectual horsepower”… etc., etc., ad nauseum.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  498. ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell has worked well.’

    and

    ‘When I first heard of the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy, I thought it sounded awfully silly.’

    Which did Mitt Romney say?

    or

    ‘The all-Democrat stimulus that was passed in early 2009 will accelerate the timing of the start of the recovery…’

    and

    ‘The all-Democrat stimulus passed in early 2009 has been a failure.’

    Which did Mitt Romney say?

    Oooh, how about some cap and tax?

    ‘These carbon emission limits will provide real and immediate progress.’

    or

    ‘Republicans should never abandon pro-growth conservative principles in an effort to embrace the ideas of Al Gore.’

    Which did Mitt Romney say?

    Who can guess which of these quotes are true Mitt Romney quotes?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  499. Just get a grip.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  500. “moron”… “liar”… “lack the intellectual horsepower”… etc., etc., ad nauseum.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/16/2011 @ 4:20 pm

    That is what I honestly think, Haiku.

    For example, your spam of Numbers USA. You and I both know you didn’t even read it. Remember in the last thread where I pointed out your source said Perry was a eugenicist in a secret society? You wouldn’t have posted that had you read it.

    You are spamming articles you haven’t even read. That is how a moron argues. When corrected, and it’s inescapable you are wrong, you don’t admit it. You just spam something else that isn’t true. That is how a liar argues.

    I’ve gone out of my way to be civil to you. Before you blew a fuse in the past few days, I went out of my way several times to note I respect your view that Romney is the most electable candidate, because we both want to beat Obama. I’ve sought a friendly exchange, and you haven’t.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  501. Get a grip and suck on Romneys lollipop dustin.

    /Sarcasm

    DohBiden (d54602)

  502. and the personal attacks continue… my, my.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  503. Just get a grip.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/16/2011 @ 4:20 pm

    You haven’t answered the quote challenge! Which of those quotes did Romney say, Haiku? You’re his #1 super duper fan, so let’s hear it from you.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  504. The Romney Quote Challenge goes on!

    ‘I’m going to take burdens off the back of the auto industry.’

    Real TARPY of you, Gov Romney

    ‘Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check.’

    That’s not very TARPY of you.

    But which did he actually say?

    ‘There’s no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs.’

    or

    ‘I think the minimum wage ought to keep pace with inflation.’

    Who can guess which of these quotes are true Romney quotes? Step right up and take a swing!

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  505. and the personal attacks continue… my, my.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/16/2011 @ 4:24 pm

    If anyone tells me they believe Haiku is sincere in this complaint, and would not issue personal attacks, please step right up and let me know.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  506. And yeah, I basically am illiterate today. Sorry.

    However, I’m only arguing with Haiku, which is so easy.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  507. The same ColonelHaiku who tells people to lay off the weed whenever they proof Romney wrong?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  508. And as usual we are carrying the moon-god worshippers in turkeys water.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  509. Nothing more pathetic than someone who can dish it out, but can’t take it.

    While I have complained that Haiku’s comments would do more good if they were arguments rather than insults, such as the one Stash quoted, I haven’t raised nearly this level of whining when Haiku was far nastier towards me than I am to call him a liar for… ya know… actually lying.

    I don’t ask for civility, I just show it and hope it all works out.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  510. The reason I support the candidacy of Mitt Romney is because I believe he is the right man for the job. He is a conservative and governed as such in a very liberal state. He governed as pro-life and his record in Massachusetts supports that: http://evangelicalsformitt.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/massleaders.pdf

    Of all the current candidates, he has the business acumen and a record of executive leadership that – in my opinion – far surpasses any of his rivals for the nomination.

    He is the best candidate.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  511. Well, this thread certainly has taken a turn towards the ugly.

    On all sides

    Icy (still a Texan -- until the end of the month) (f2895f)

  512. It’s sad when EPWJ shows more restraint and honesty than well-respected regulars. I am not a Romney fan, nor am I a Perry fan. Right now, I’m only around a couple of widely-separated times each day and spend most of that time catching up, cleaning up spam, and releasing the occasional moderated comment. I sure don’t have time for political discourse and I’m not leaning towards anyone right now.

    Maybe everyone could take a step back and limit themselves to promoting their preferred candidate instead of trying to tear down the rest of the field? This “keyboards at 10 paces” stuff is ridiculous IMO.

    Nobody is getting moderated (unless Patterico tells me differently), so they really need to moderate themselves. I liked everyone involved (yes, the past tense is intentional but not permanent) and will not be taking sides personally or as a moderator. If anyone breaks the rules I’ll follow the usual practice here for that rule.

    Advice? Sure, it’s free and worth exactly what you paid… Romney and Perry supporters should back the hell away from one another and stop pissing off the undecideds. You’re not doing your preferred candidates any favors here. Really.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  513. Thank you Colonel, we cross-posted but that’s an excellent start.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  514. ‘This (got) out of control, and we were lucky to live through it’ and nary a Christine O’Donnell
    reference,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  515. I will add that my only antipathy towards Romney is that he appears to be “next” with the GOP elite. After McCain, that’s a huge mark against him for me. Is he ideal? Not at all, but neither is Perry or anyone else. Most seem acceptable at this point. The fact Romney’s a Mormon is irrelevant to me except that the Mormon-bashing makes it easier to consider voting for him. I have a contrary nature sometimes.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  516. From ColonelHaiku’s 352:

    “On an annual basis between 1981 and 2003, Texas almost always paid more in federal taxes than it got back from Uncle Sam. But since 2003 the reverse has been true, with Texas receiving more than it paid in five out of seven years, which is close to routine,” PolitiFact Texas reported in April.

    It appears to me that Texas received more from the federal government than it paid in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, and 2009. Both PolitiFact Texas and The Tax Foundation (Federal Taxes Paid vs. Federal Spending Received by State, 1981-2005 [scroll down to or search for "Texas"]) say Texas paid more to the federal government than it received prior to 2003, and PolitiFact Texas lists Texas as a donor state in 2006 and 2007, when oil prices were rebounding. I couldn’t find any numbers for 2010 and presumably there are no numbers available yet for 2011.

    It’s my understanding that federal aid to Texas increased from 2003 to 2006 because of rising unemployment insurance costs. See, for example, this Texas Public Policy Foundation analysis of federal spending in Texas during that period that attributes much of the change in donor status to unemployment insurance costs. As of May 2010, Texas still owed the federal government nearly $2 billion used to help pay the unemployment claims of Texas workers. Perhaps federal spending similarly increased in Texas in 2008 ($8B difference) and 2009 ($61B difference) because of additional unemployment costs and/or receipt of stimulus funds.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  517. Stashiu

    whats your ideal candidate?

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  518. There is a reason some regulars have been avoiding the threads. Who really wants to get slapped for merely thinking out loud, musing on the candidates – and gasp! – possibly disagreeing with those more vocal?

    Instead of a melting pot of ideas and considerations, this becomes a place where a few imperious souls assume self-importance rendering them judge and jury in their own eyes. It wouldn’t be so off putting if it were just the matter of the post’s subject matter being chewed up, but apparently that’s not good enough – it now has to get personal. Ego is such a needy little bastard.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  519. dana,

    i agree and apologize

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  520. I do regret that this discussion is ugly, but I do not regret that I have corrected claims that weren’t true.

    Haiku’s ability to change tenor at the drop of a hat is something I just don’t have. I’m 100% sincere in 100% of my comments. What you see is what you get.

    I also am firmly opposed to Mitt Romney primarily because I do not think he will reform spending or entitlements at a point in time when it is critical that the GOP stand for such reforms from top to bottom. Perry promises to do so, and has a record of standing up for his views, even when not popular. Romney appears, to me, to have demogogued against medicare and social security reforms recently. I have no confidence that this country will be fiscally stable with such a man in the White House.

    I am not seriously concerned with Haiku’s comments about Methodists being racist or pro-choice. For one, I doubt anyone seeing abortion is a top issue will vote for Romney anyway, but also, I suspect he is trying to react to comments about Romney’s faith that I think are also irrelevant. In my opinion, comments about Mormonism or Methodism have little relevance. There is no need for a tit for tat. Neither of these guys have any Rev Wright level problems.

    Let me lay out what I believe to be the typical Romney fan’s actual position: Mitt Romney is centrist and thus will attract more votes than a conservative, also he looks much better in debates, and this gives the GOP a greater chance of beating Obama.

    I do not think the typical Romney fan actually thinks Romney is more conservative on immigration or spending or social issues. I’d rather have the actual argument. How moderate should we go in order to maintain electability? Is Perry electable? Cain? Is Romney too far a compromise? Those kinds of comments.

    Who really wants to get slapped for merely thinking out loud, musing on the candidates – and gasp! – possibly disagreeing with those more vocal?

    Dana, I welcome those kinds of comments. I want to have a polite disagreement.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  521. Good advice and wise words from Stashiu3 and Dana.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  522. DRJ there’s 2010 numbers for you back up at #346

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  523. _______________________________________________

    Well, this thread certainly has taken a turn towards the ugly. On all sides

    If this is a preview of the months leading up to November 2012, President “Goddamn America” will waltz right back into the White House. And along with the “Occupy Wall Street” crowd (which, in reality, is mainly limousine liberalism — and one does not have to be wealthy to be guilty of that form of disingenuous, two-faced behavior — trying to look egalitarian), he’ll be laughing all the way to the bank.

    Mark (411533)

  524. Thanks, happyfeet, but your link to the Visualizing Economics blog lists the source of its data as The Tax Foundation. The Tax Foundation’s data ends in 2005, but it’s soliciting funds to update the data. Hopefully it will get enough donations soon.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  525. If this is a preview of the months leading up to November 2012, President “Goddamn America” will waltz right back into the White House.

    It’s a serious concern.

    A lot of people are saying they just plain can’t vote for Romney if he’s nominated.

    This is a very important consideration for those considering Romney’s electability. In a poll, I think a majority of Americans prefer Romney. But will they all turn out for him? I think the answer is no.

    Perry is, at least, not dividing the party like that. Cain is even better, as he says things that rally activists.

    Obama’s polling in the low 40% in critical swing states. It is very much the GOP’s race to lose, and I think this is a key year to nominate someone who believes in reform. Cain and Perry both offer that agenda, but we do have to unify around one of them. I think conservatives should rally around whichever of them holds out the best, and then vote Romney in the general unless they think he would be worse than Obama (personally, I think Obama would be much worse liberal in his second term than his first, and Romney would be a centrist).

    I think the disputes about Romney’s capacity to stand up for reforming entitlements is a tremendously important issue worth plenty of argument.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  526. DRJ, my data didn’t go any farther than 2005.

    However, I’m not sure how Texas’s share of federal taxes or revenue are within the Texas government’s control.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  527. Dustin,

    I wanted to look at Texas’ donor status more closely because if most of the “excess” federal funds are due to unemployment insurance costs, then I think those funds have to be repaid by Texas to the federal government.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  528. DRj

    some UT professor told me that the Federal Government really doesnt keep statson it much of it is guess work – for what its worth

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  529. _______________________________________________

    Obama’s polling in the low 40% in critical swing states.

    Since I don’t trust the whims of a good portion of the electorate — meaning since I don’t trust human nature in general (see quote below) — I, in turn, don’t trust my or anyone else’s take on things right now. IOW, will my preferences or assumptions in the long run be too rightwing for X number of swing voters? Or will my preferences — based on pure tactics (and not ideology) of the best way to win next year’s election — be too liberal or centrist for various conservatives, meaning one goal will offset (and inadvertently sabotage) another goal?

    I really can’t determine whether you or Colonel — and you both seem to be otherwise reasonable, likeable folks — come closest to the best path that has to be taken for 2012.


    When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

    Mark (411533)

  530. ColonelHaiku can indeed dish it out but not take it.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  531. Doesn’t Dylan Ratigan endorse Ron Paul for 2012 I read it Ron Pauls endorsement page on wikipedia?

    Must be because of his support for the OWS people.

    Obama is to blame for their lack of jobs because he is continuing Bushs policies of runaway spending and making it worse.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  532. And we need to end ethanol subsidies.

    Too bad Mitt doesn’t believe that.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  533. GO CARDINALS !!!!!!!!

    JD (318f81)

  534. The reason why the leftys such as Castro oppose Ethanol is because of gorebull warming.

    Back on topic-Romney is the myocardial infarction of the heart known as american prosperity.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  535. I wanted to look at Texas’ donor status more closely because if most of the “excess” federal funds are due to unemployment insurance costs, then I think those funds have to be repaid by Texas to the federal government.

    Comment by DRJ — 10/16/2011 @ 6:21 pm

    That’s a very insightful point.

    I really can’t determine whether you or Colonel — and you both seem to be otherwise reasonable, likeable folks — come closest to the best path that has to be taken for 2012.

    Thanks. Usually I liked Haiku’s comments, but he and I are obviously not going to see eye to eye on Romney.

    Or will my preferences — based on pure tactics (and not ideology) of the best way to win next year’s election — be too liberal or centrist for various conservatives, meaning one goal will offset (and inadvertently sabotage) another goal?

    This is the argument I wish we were having. It’s pretty difficult to answer, obviously, but at least worth full consideration.

    If Perry is too conservative to be nominated, or perhaps otherwise unelectable (for example due to his debate performance) then there’s no reason to support him. Ordinarily, this analysis is a lot easier for a centrist, and I think Romney’s presentation has no problems either.

    Is the 2012 election going to be like the 1992 one? I think conservatives are even more concerned about the problems in the GOP than they were then. The only thing that would bring many to the polls for Romney would merely be Opposition to Obama.

    And then we have to consider the attacks Romney will have to take. When I try to discuss this, I think some read it as my weaseling in some attacks on Romney that aren’t fair (I say I don’t agree with them). Suffice it to say I think there are probably some attacks on Romney more than anything available on Perry or Cain (and again, I’m not talking about Mormonism, which probably is not going to be much of a factor).

    Regardless, I want to hear this kind of argument laid out, rather than just give my view of it in between shooting down claims I don’t think are true and are probably just distractions.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  536. oops my bad

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  537. It really has become the ‘Argument Clinic’ with a frequent turn toward abuse, Romney is not a self
    made man in the same way. Perry is, he has facilitated some poorly structured policies, he shows little convictions for what is required.
    OTOH, it is no reason to hold his faith against him.

    Perry, by contrast, has been very lackadaisical, in his public statements and his debates, suggesting he didn’t really think things through. The comparison is often made to W, but I don’t think that works.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  538. How the hell are the deranged palin fans lefty aren’t they far-right?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  539. Go Bears!!!

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  540. Perry, by contrast, has been very lackadaisical, in his public statements and his debates, suggesting he didn’t really think things through.

    Comment by ian cormac — 10/16/2011 @ 7:28 pm

    He does really well in interviews, which I don’t offer as a defense to your observation (which I agree with). It seems to be in the guy to come across better. Personally, I think he’s fine as a leader and yet not preparing properly for the debates, but more and more I wonder if there’s something about these debates that just stumps him.

    This ‘lackadaisical’ comment strikes a chord. There have been times when he’s got a very easy opportunity to score some points in these debates, and he doesn’t pick up on it.

    But then, Perry isn’t the sort of leader to present himself as the mastermind. He has simple ideas for his first 100 days in office, and some of them are the opposite of micromanaging. He wants to get agencies and regulations out of the way.

    Where Perry has gone wrong is where he’s used government when he shouldn’t. He’s at his best just holding government back, and I think that’s his defining style.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  541. I’d rather have a President Perry who didn’t think things through than a Miss Mittens what thought it through and… invented Obamacare

    it’s not even close

    I will not vote for Romney ever in my whole life.

    I am confident in this fact.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  542. Thanks for the help, buddy

    Icy (f2895f)

  543. _____________________________________________

    The only thing that would bring many to the polls for Romney would merely be Opposition to Obama.

    If that’s guaranteed, then it becomes far easier to have shoot-em-outs over the pluses or minuses of all the Republican candidates. So you and Colonel, and everyone else, then can go at it.

    I think when Ronald Reagan said something about there being an unspoken rule about Republicans (or those on the right) not speaking ill of one another, he may have said it based on his own sense that an unfortunate, and foolish, aspect of human nature is to automatically give the benefit of the doubt to people who wrap themselves in a “mommy” ideology — or who lean left — compared with those who favor a “daddy” ideology, or who lean right.

    If people think back to the way they’ve often been more forgiving of the foibles of (or fights with) their own mothers compared with the way they’ve often felt about the generally no-nonsense (but also crucial pro-disciplinarian and perhaps pro-tough-love) quality of their fathers, they’ll better understand what is behind this quirk of human nature and how it carries over to the way that people treat not just their parents, but others too, politicians included.

    Mark (411533)

  544. Taxing Michael Moore=Evil

    No rich people=Better economy.

    I’m beginning to get sick and tired of the liberals contradicting each other.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  545. Now to get on topic Mitt Romneys supporters are pathetic little miscreants.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  546. an unfortunate, and foolish, aspect of human nature is to automatically give the benefit of the doubt to people who wrap themselves in a “mommy” ideology — or who lean left — compared with those who favor a “daddy” ideology, or who lean right.

    I think this is interesting, at least. It’s probably true, though I’m so far out of step with this that I can’t honestly say I understand it. Most of us probably interpret politicians promising to take care of folks as something like a con artist.

    If people think back to the way they’ve often been more forgiving of the foibles of (or fights with) their own mothers compared with the way they’ve often felt about the generally no-nonsense (but also crucial pro-disciplinarian and perhaps pro-tough-love) quality of their fathers, they’ll better understand what is behind this quirk of human nature and how it carries over to the way that people treat not just their parents, but others too, politicians included.

    For whatever reason, conservatives do have a much harder time when it comes to being trusted.

    For example, I read a poll where the #Occupy kooks were more trusted than TEA Partiers (can’t recall where and I pray this is BS). I know Obama has taken a nosedive in polls, but not because of Fast and Furious, IG firings, or wars… just because of jobs. Bush was far more honorable, yet far less trusted.

    I think part of this is just the stubborn way of many pundits and celebs in media. Things that are settled are talked about like they are controversial. Things that are proven are discussed as though they are in question.

    Anyway, as for Reagan’s 11th commandment, I reject that. It’s wrong. If someone is in favor of more entitlement spending, I reject them. If someone resists fundamentally fixing the Ponzi Scheme of social security, I know they are trying to rob the next few generations blind to pay for votes.

    All I want for my country is a clear choice between the nanny party and the austerity party. I want 2012 to be a referendum on Obamacare and the BS politics that have defined the past five years since Pelosi took the House.

    I think if we nominate someone who fails to give Americans that choice, we are making a huge mistake. We have candidates with executive experience with a long record of making great calls, such as Perry insisting on spending cuts instead of raiding the rainy day fund or a tax increase, even if those cuts affected sacred cow agencies like education. We need that kind of spine. Cain shows that spine too in many interviews. He’s a little gaffe prone, but maybe that’s also why I like him. I am sick and tired of these people who don’t really care what policies they champion so long as they get the votes.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  547. If the left get their wish and there are no rich people I hope these trolls get over the fact their will be no jobs hiring them forever.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  548. Obama is the first black president who is bi-racial.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  549. Mitt Romney’s Afghanistan remark stuns GOP pals
    Mitt Romney’s hint in Monday night’s Republican debate that he’s eager to pull the plug on the war in Afghanistan left some of his GOP allies puzzled […]
    “It’s time for us to bring our troops home as soon as we possibly can — as soon as our generals think it’s okay,” Romney said. “One lesson we‘ve learned in Afghanistan is that Americans cannot fight another nation’s war of independence.”
    The remark came at a time when American voters are telling pollsters they’re tiring of U.S. interventions in the Muslim world […]
    Danielle Pletka, vice president for foreign and defense policy studies at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, said her inbox was flooded Tuesday morning with emails calling Romney’s comments a “disaster.”
    “I’d thought of Romney as a mainstream Republican – supporting American strength and American leadership, but this doesn’t reflect that,” she said. “Romney has proven himself a little bit of a weathervane and I guess he senses that positioning himself in this place is good for his campaign — attempting to appease Ron Paul’s constituents without actually being Ron Paul.”
    “You can’t really triangulate on these issues. Either you think we’re fighting a war we need to win or you think we ought to bring all the troops home, but he said it all there,” Pletka said.
    […]

    Other Republicans did not want to be quoted out of party loyalty and fear of the front runner.

    That’s from Politico, so I’ll not link. I left out most of the article, but nothing changing the thrust of it.

    That last part is downright disturbing. Republicans won’t criticize Romney out of party loyalty? Why, specifically, do you oppose Barack Obama? Just because he’s a democrat? We have more substantial views. Can you apply those views?

    Mitt Romney is the Republican Barack Obama would vote for. In this case, he is to the left of Barack Obama. Tomorrow he will be to the right. Depends on what the polls say.

    Romney chose to begin his political career in MA, and that’s probably where he actually fits in politically. Liberal republicans never really work out in MA despite preaching liberalism, often louder than the democrats do.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  550. “Liberal republicans never really work out in MA despite preaching liberalism, often louder than the democrats do.’

    Good faith discussion, it’s whats for breakfast.

    ‘Republicans won’t criticize Romney out of party loyalty? ‘

    Your excerpt actually said other Republicans did not want to be quoted, go figure. They don’t want to stick their necks out.

    daleyrocks (e56eef)

  551. Your excerpt actually said other Republicans did not want to be quoted, go figure. They don’t want to stick their necks out.

    Right. They don’t want to be quoted criticizing Romney. It’s amazing.

    Good faith discussion, it’s whats for breakfast.

    Thank you! I appreciate that. I will continue bringing my honest views on Romney despite the way Romney’s fans tend to respond (by insinuating I’m lying).

    It’s simply the case that only professed liberal Republicans get elected in MA. Everyone knows that this is how Romney presented himself. Swearing never to waver. Promising he supports “strong” gun control and “doesn’t line up with the NRA”. Promising a government solution to health care (though in his defense, Romney doesn’t think Obamacare or Romneycare are government run, which is meant to distinguish them as better than single payer). Promising to “never waver” in his support of Roe V Wade. He supported Cap and Trade and government solutions to global warming. Some of these stuff was stronger than Ted Kennedy’s commentary, and of course that makes perfect sense. Romney had to try twice as hard as a democrat would to convince MA voters he’s electable.

    Some of Mitt’s defense is that he couldn’t help but have some liberal results because MA. So maybe he was less liberal than a democrat would have been. I think MA got much more liberal with Romneycare and increased gun control, but the Romney fan claims that MA would be even more liberal than that, somehow.

    This isn’t true. Romneycare has matured into an insolvent death panel disaster, but it’s really just following the course it was on from day 1. It left a huge deficit, which was one major thing Romney claims to have eliminated (by not counting Romneycare!) Gun control is not much different now that Romney’s gone. It hasn’t gone much to the left.

    What I see is that the left was much better at getting a lot of these measures through if it could work with the leader of the GOP in MA. The entire debate was shifted far to the left. Any Republicans in MA arguing against health care mandates was practically fringe.

    That’s not to say I won’t support Romney in the general, but it’s worrisome. And if there’s a good third party candidate, I will be tempted to support that one.

    I’ve been pretty disenchanted from the GOP ever since Pawlenty flipped from very accurate criticisms of Romney to endorsing him for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    This kind of move is slick if all you care about is winning. Indeed, Romney is a ruthless politician leaving nothing to chance and honestly making the other politicians such as my guy look amateurish. Since I don’t care about that, and rather want entitlements reformed, I worry about Romney doing much of what Nixon did, cementing LBJ’s policies and even making them worse.

    The best way to avoid this crisis is to elect a conservative nominee rather than a liberal one. That way, America gets choice between an Obamacare opponent and Obama. They get a choice between fundamental overhaul of Social Security (rather than kick the can down the road+ lip service), and Obama’s plan for insolvency. They get a choice between freedom from government intrusions vs cap and tax and gun control.

    I really want the GOP to be the party that is more than just slightly different from the democrats. We need leadership, not politics.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  552. Eh, I take part of that back. I just read how Obama was lining up with the #occupy kooks.

    A centrist Romney is a lot better than a hard left Obama, and I shouldn’t let me frustration with Romney interfere with the fact that Obama needs to go.

    But that sentiment is Romney’s major electability concern, and I have heard next to nothing about how Romney will overcome it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  553. I just read how Obama was lining up with the #occupy kooks.

    The “occupy” folks are union funded and supported. These are the same activists that he hard left always uses. Look how they turned to the MFM and even the folks at MSNBC to help craft their message. Barcky doesn’t have to line up with them, as he has always been with them.

    JD (318f81)

  554. Barcky doesn’t have to line up with them, as he has always been with them.

    Comment by JD — 10/17/2011 @ 6:25 am

    That’s true, of course.

    In Obama’s heart, he’s not the centrist he presented himself as in 2007-8. I feel like it’s insulting to even mention this, as it was so obvious then Obama was merely walking the walk.

    He has actually been better than I expected him to be. I totally expected healthcare reform and insane deficits, but I also expected Obama would cut and run on afghanistan because that seemed to be the easy call from a sheer poll-based analysis.

    Regardless, what’s Obama going to be like in his second term? I think much more liberal. His Rev Wright and Ayers mojo will be far more apparent. I think he will be the World’s president in his decisions.

    And while I really dislike a centrist or liberal GOP nominee, that is not nearly as bad.

    Though I don’t know how Romney’s fans plan to endear their candidate to conservatives who are aware of all the flip flops. There probably will be some third party candidate if the two candidates are both in favor of so many of the same policies. That really is all Obama needs to be reelected.

    Let’s just assume for the sake of argument that the Tea Party Express actually runs a third party candidate. Remember all the debates in 2010 about lining up to support Mike Castle or Charlie Crist. Will 3-4% of the voters go third party? I think that’s a low estimate, and it’s all Obama needs.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  555. Hugh Hewitt writes…

    ‘There are four key endorsements left in the GOP race, and Roll Call reports that South Carolina’s Jim DeMint is leaning towards Mitt Romney. With the backing of Chris Christie and Jim DeMint it would be very difficult to argue that the Tea Party movement is unrepresented in Romney’s camp, though as is to be expected with so large and diverse a movement, many Tea Party organizers will be with Governor Perry and Herman Cain as well.

    Still, DeMint stands very tall among the grassroots who carry the Tea Party banner, and his endorsement would launch another round of Romney “inevitability” stories.’

    http://www.hughhewitt.com/blog/g/e6a2607a-9d08-4273-be53-d6a8709c8a94

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  556. DeMint will lose whatever credibility he has left if he endorses Romney I think

    I always knew he was a phony

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  557. and we saw what a fat boy endorsement was worth in Delaware

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  558. Romney and Gingrich have what it takes. The rest of the pack – to this point – don’t. ’nuff said.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  559. Hugh Hewitt doesn’t get to determine if the Tea Party is ‘represented’ in Romney’s camp.

    But I’d say Flake is already sufficiently Tea Party, and he already endorsed Romney.

    Christie I like, but he’s definitely not the typical Tea Partier. Endorsements = fundraising, but Romney has never had a problem with fundraising. Romney outraised all his competitors in 2008, and still ran out of money loaning his campaign $35 million.

    This is one of the arguments against him. He doesn’t run his campaign with fiscal discipline, but rather goes far into debt and hemorrhages money while his competitors have a far lower burn rate.

    Romney also dominated in endorsements in 2008, btw. like I said, hand in hand with fundraising.

    There really is zero question that Romney is the establishment’s choice, so of course he’s got the lion’s share of endorsements. He had 38 congressman, which was far ahead of his nearest competitor who was actually in congress. And of course, most pundits such as Rush also endorsed Romney in 2008, but aren’t doing so this year because we have several better conservatives with executive experience.

    Endorsements are the old, pre-TEA party way. Today we don’t need any filters, and it’s a lot harder for the Bob Doles.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  560. Rick Perry makes a dandy governor.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  561. Rick Perry is a good governor he hasn’t invented obamacare even once!

    unlike wall street romney

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  562. politics of class envy… for losers like OWS.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  563. Romney and Gingrich have what it takes. The rest of the pack – to this point – don’t. ’nuff said.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/17/2011 @ 7:07 am

    I don’t understand this pronouncement, since Cain is a self starter with clear vision and executive leadership without anything like Romneycare or gun control in his record.

    This ‘have what it takes’ is a bit silly, as we’re probably using the Obama-test. Obama is a candidate who ran entirely because he looked smart on TV. We know that’s largely BS.

    The reason I think Perry has what it takes is because he’s run a very large government with a high degree of skill and excellent performance, especially when compared to other states in the same period of time.

    Imagine a state’s government getting smaller (at least per capita) over a decade. Imagine a Governor with the spine to cut education spending instead of just gutting all other agencies or a tax increase or raiding the savings of the state. His reason? Texans couldn’t afford their then education spending going up in 2006, and they couldn’t afford it staying in place in 2011. Simple as that.

    That is not very sophisticated, but isn’t that exactly what it really takes to be President? We need a leader who says ‘I know some of you want the government to take care of your health care or your retirement or anything else, but we can only afford X amount, and that’s final.’

    That, in a nutshell, is Perry’s 20 year career in politics. Cain actually says this kind of thing even more plainly when he rejects that filthy ‘occupy’ trash.

    Neither of them are perfect, and neither of them are super slick in the debates because they aren’t actually trying to be slick. They have a completely different idea about how to relate to voters.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  564. some understand, some don’t… age-old story.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  565. wall street romney and obama

    two great tastes that taste great together

    hey you got my wall street romneycare in your obamacare!

    hey you got your obamacare in my wall street romneycare!

    mmmmmmm socialism!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  566. on the march… free the happyfeet7!

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  567. politics of class envy… for losers like OWS.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    I’m not sure calling people ‘loser’ is the best way to answer Happyfeet’s point about Romney’s background.

    Let’s you and me both try a little harder to disagree about Romney without insulting folks or calling good faith opinions ‘dishonest’.

    Instead of talking about civility, let’s actually do it.

    I would say that Romney’s Bain experience is one of his most prominent plus points. He obviously understands both how to make money and how to trim unnecessary fat from a company in order to make tremendous profit.

    As I noted about, this Bain experience also = outsourcing and Bain is a pioneer of American industry moving to China. That is not Romney’s fault, as Americans want Chinese goods because they are cheap, but this definitely is going to be a liability for Romney that just isn’t a problem for Cain or Perry. Cain and Perry both promoted more American jobs. Perry well before he was governor was helping export Texas goods, and very successful. Cain, of course, is a successful self made business man, and there’s class envy in those who prefer Cain to Romney, obviously.

    Romney even as governor did poorly in job growth, at 47th out of 50. And Perry’s basically #1 on jobs, as Texas has added about as many jobs as the other 49 states combined. It’s so good here, that people flood into Texas, which is the only reason unemployment isn’t negative 5% here. This actually means Texas has a higher level of competition. And we have a far better standard of living, dollar for dollar.

    A lot of that is just due to simple stuff like keeping government out of the way. It feels wrong to credit Perry for that. Private entities are why Texas prospers. All Perry did was know better than the screw it all up by mandating health insurance or regulating guns all the time or cap and trade crap.

    That’s why when I read Perry’s 100 days job plan about getting the EPA fundamentally back on a much more narrow path, and otherwise getting out of our way, I think it’s going to work specifically because Perry is not the kind of guy to try to manage our country.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  568. , and there’s class envy in those who prefer Cain to Romney, obviously.

    I meant the opposite of this!

    hahaha

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  569. Rick Perry will make a fine 10-term governor of Texas.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  570. Let’s honestly look at Cain, Perry, Gingrich, and Romney.

    Which of these men would Obama vote for?

    Romney shares a lot of advisers with Obama. The global warming one, the romneycare guys, and sometimes I suspect (though I cannot say for sure) some of his foreign policy guys, given my quote of Romney above.

    If you ignore Huntsman (and why wouldn’t you?) Romney is the only guy Obama finds palatable. This is not meant as a cheap shot. My point is that if Obama is so damn bad, why wouldn’t the GOP offer a STARK choice rather than a very fine one.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  571. Obama would pass the baton to wall street romney in a heartbeat if he had to pick

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  572. Rick Perry will make a fine 10-term governor of Texas.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/17/2011 @ 7:32 am

    Ya know, no lie here, I actually kinda feel that way. I kinda prefer Cain now, because Perry is actually doing great in Texas and I don’t think Dewhurst (no offense intended to him) will be quite as good. He’s simply a little more activist, and Perry’s more a hum drum dude staying out of the way and doing his job.

    I kinda win twice if Cain is the nominee.

    And if Perry isn’t able to beat Romney in the primary, that means he’s got some serious problems as a national candidate. I don’t get it, but I’m obviously out of step somehow.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  573. Just a reminder for the sake of clarity: while Jeff Flake likes the Tea Party, and they love him, he remains NOT a member of the Tea Party caucus, so his endorsement doesn’t necessarily give Romney any bonifides with the Teas.

    Icy (f2895f)

  574. Yay! I was number 600
    ;)

    Icy (f2895f)

  575. Jeff Flake’s lost a lot of credibility with his endorsement of wall street romney I think.

    It’s all tribalism in America anymore. So sad.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  576. while Jeff Flake likes the Tea Party, and they love him, he remains NOT a member of the Tea Party caucus, so his endorsement doesn’t necessarily give Romney any bonifides with the Teas.

    That’s exactly right, Icy. Very good correction, actually.

    But I like Flake a lot. I cannot in good faith dismiss his Romney endorsement, which is basically the opposite of my view of just about all the other endorsements aside from Jindal’s Perry endorsement.

    I think some of these Tea partiers want that to remain entirely unorganized grass roots, instead of a bona fide political organization.

    Why? Because it could quickly turn into a political party. If that could happen without splitting the vote, it would be wonderful. The GOP has lost much of its credibility, particularly on spending. It just doesn’t have the record I wish it did.

    I think a Tea party-party would be much more credible for those who care mainly about the government not destroying the country economically with entitlements that just can’t be.

    Of course, this is unrealistic. The GOP is far too powerful and organized, and would persist and outlast its challenge just as it did in 1992.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  577. Playing the “all Mormons stick together” card, dude?

    No SHOCKA, since that’s par for your course.

    Icy (f2895f)

  578. Playing the “all Mormons stick together” card, dude?

    Who said that?

    I keep feeling like people are interpreting my comments as intolerant of Mormons, and I actually really like Mormons. If anything, I’m biased in their favor.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  579. 604 was, of course, directed at the “heff” that hates women.

    Icy (f2895f)

  580. oh shoot, you’re talking about happyfeet’s tribalism comment.

    My bad. I agree that there’s no reason to interpret Flake’s support as related to his faith. He’s better than that.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  581. 604 was, of course, directed at the “heff” that hates women.

    Comment by Icy — 10/17/2011 @ 8:00 am

    My mistake. It takes me a minute to interpret comments like ‘tribalism’. I actually thought he was talking about partisanship. I have to consciously shift gears to even relate these guys to their religion. I literally do not care, unless it’s something like Rev Wright (and even then, do I believe Obama was sincerely into that stuff? Not really).

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  582. The only reason Jeff Flake endorsed wall street romney is cause of religious tribalism I think.

    Pandering as hard as Flake has to the Tea Party and then endorsing wall street romney is a way bigger flipper flopper than anything even Miss Mittens can be accused of. As flipper floppers go it’s nigh seismic.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  583. oh yeah the heffster doubles down

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  584. The only reason Jeff Flake endorsed wall street romney is cause of religious tribalism I think.

    With all due respect, this is just not going persuade folks. Maybe this is your suspicion because you’re flummoxed by a conservative supporting one of the most liberal candidates, if not the most liberal one. But it’s really not going to help, and frankly I don’t think it’s true.

    Romney is incredibly powerful in the party. He has a stake even in Clear Channel. He’s such a great fund raiser that anyone considering a future run for national office is under pressure to support him.

    Just as Palin’s support for O’Donnell cost her some credibility in my eyes, I think Flake’s support for Romney is too poorly explained when Cain and Perry as more deserving from what Flake says are his goals. But I think all we have to do is note this confusion. We don’t need to assume the explanation is bigotry (and that is basically how it comes across, because for a Mormon to support Romney just because the other candidates aren’t Mormon would be pretty damn lame). It’s too heavy a charge, with basically no evidence behind it, when the real point you’re making is that Romney just isn’t like Flake politically.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  585. I don’t care if it persuades anybody I’m just saying I think Flake is a nasty religious tribalist what puts allegiance to his faith before allegiance to his country.

    ymmv

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  586. DeMint plays in the same sandbox.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  587. I don’t care if it persuades anybody

    Fair enough.

    I grant the other aspect of what you’re saying, that there are politicians who played Tea Partier for votes, but are not serious about reforming entitlement spending or otherwise doing the difficult and spine-testing work needed to save our country from DC’s spending.

    Those who promote Romney as our nominee after acting as though entitlement spending is a crisis seem to be contradicting themselves.

    Jeff Flake says he supports privatizing social security. That’s one of the reasons I really like him, and saw him as part of the Paul Ryan wing of the party.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  588. I did too. Now not so much.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  589. Nor Luap today proposes abolishing the Depts. of Education and Energy, i.e., TEA platform issues.

    We have 3/4 of loyal Repugnants bitching about being handed, once again, the ‘approved’ candidate ahead of balloting.

    Look over your shoulder, half of the Right has moved out without a change of address. FO GOP.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  590. Demint denies ever pimping for Romney.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  591. They are selling us Castle, Dustin, or you haven’t figured that out already, a man who holds no principle other than getting elected, no matter what law (including freedom of speech is trampled in the process,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  592. I was simply wrong on Castle, Ian.

    I didn’t like him, but I thought electability trumped all, when in the long run, this is simply a great way to interfere with the party evolving.

    The GOP needs to become more conservative than it was in 2000, not less out of desperation or just because the next guy in line is not conservative.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  593. I mean, with Castle, folks just have some standards and want their agenda passed, and my reply wasn’t that Castle would actually help them, but that Coons would be a lot worse. In no way did I have an argument that got Castle’s detractors what they really want, and what our country needs.

    Sure, we can get mired in the short term politics, but if that’s all we ever look at, the country’s screwed.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  594. To me the liberal abhors absolute characterizations applied to demographics, e.g., aspersions cast toward the gay/lesbian/transgendered population(as if anything could be said about such a disparate 1.5%. Conservatives employing stereotypes are the personification of evil.

    And then they turn around and abuse a gay individual of their acquaintance for implicit misogyny, or ‘cattiness’, or every possible slander they imagine the knuckledragging conservative to harbor.

    Me, I just like to regard the stranger, the foreign, with wariness until they prove familiar. In comparison with the liberals I know well, I feel much more forgiving of individuals those shortcomings that make them an individual.

    So when the bigot card gets played early and often I recognize the closet liberal instantly.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  595. Rasmussen has Cain polling ahead of Obama!

    And it’s so early. Cain appears to be electable.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  596. Dustin, don’t tell Beldar that.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (35c310)

  597. Yeah, I was nodding my head when Beldar said as much. It goes without saying that Beldar’s view is in good faith. While I prefer Perry, I think Cain is a very strong alternative. The problem simply is making sure all the conservatives rally around the same guy, so some compromise is necessary.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  598. “as much” = when Beldar expressed doubts about Cain’s electability.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  599. Is Romney the Favorite, the Underdog… or Both?

    ‘The new Pew study out today highlights one of the challenges Mitt Romney has had to overcome simply to maintain his status at or near the top of the GOP primary polls. Not only do conservative grassroots voters fall into the “anyone but Romney” camp, but the former Massachusetts governor has also been on the wrong side of the free media war.

    Alexander Burns grabs the relevant portion of the study’s results: “Mitt Romney remains the one constant—portrayed as the ever-present if not passionately embraced alternative in the GOP field. Despite often leading in the polls, Romney has typically received less coverage and less positive coverage than his chief rival of the moment—and that remained true in early October after [Rick] Perry faltered. Overall, he is second in the amount of attention received and the tone of that narrative has been unwaveringly mixed.”’

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/10/17/candidate-romney-pew-study/

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  600. A good Look at Texas for non Texans

    If I’m not mistaken this is one of DRJ and JD’s favorite people as well

    http://melissablogs.com/2011/10/14/the-kindness-of-capitalism-how-the-texas-economy-cares-for-the-community/

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc)

  601. And then, from the other room, wall street romney said, “hey godammit we’re out of pickles!”

    He walked into the room where we were enjoying a game of billiards and continued plaintively. “I went into the kitchen and opened the fridge and right there where the pickles are supposed to be there’s just an empty jar where pickles used to be. How is that a good thing for me, wall street romney?”

    What could I say? “Sorry sorry sorry Mr. wall street romney,” I said quickly. “We’ll have to ask Carmelita to pick some up at the market.”

    “See that you do,” wall street romney said, grimacing.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  602. “We’ll have to ask Carmelita to pick some up at the market.”

    Good luck with that! Last I heard, she was all strung out on heroin, on the outskirts of town.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  603. there’s always plan b in wall street romneyworld Mr. Colonel!

    “How dare you bring these pickles into my house!” wall street romney roared, his voice full of semi-righteous fury. “I loathe pickles! I have always loathed pickles!”

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  604. Rave on, happyfeet. Just feel free to stop the Flake-bashing.

    Icy (d986bf)

  605. have no fear happy
    doc is on the way with your
    dose of Thorazine

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  606. hai feets.
    do you know what Nate Silver allus says?
    demographics is destiny.

    wheeler's cat (e07004)

  607. We know Flake down here, as a big flack for Fidel and his disgruntled brother, nothing about his faith.

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  608. I does appear that the wall street folks who donated to Obama have had no problems shifting support to Romney.

    I wonder why Obama and Romney would share so many characteristics? Perhaps these guys donated to Obama for a reason… something like a bailout? Why would they donate to Romney, then? It’s very strange.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  609. Like they said in the very Cinema verite, ‘TimeCop’
    by the villain Senator McComb (the late Ron Silver)
    ‘in order to win, you don’t need popularity, you don’t even need the press (I’ll dissent on that point) you need money’

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  610. Romney has bags and bags of money – they don’t call him wall street romney cause of his extreme couponing skills

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  611. Given the fact that a large percentage of voters will not be lining up behind a candidate until the last months before the November 2012 election, which of the current crop of candidates would beat Obama in their debates?

    Cain? Nice man, good business and executive background, but too prone to misstatements and unforced errors.

    Gingrich? Yes, he’d wipe the floor with Obama, a towering intellect, but a lot of baggage.

    Bachmann? Sharp, usually good instincts, but another candidate who is too prone to misstatements and unforced errors.

    Paul? Not a good debater, but has some interesting ideas on the nation’s financial health and the economy. Unacceptable opinions on national security would be a cudgel to be used against him.

    Romney? Great global business experience, proven executive capabilities and leadership skills. He’d also wipe the floor with Obama.

    Santorum? Santorum has sound instincts and a solid record. He might do quite well in a debate.

    Perry? When thoroughly examined, Perry has a somewhat mixed record as governor of Texas, but has also done some good: tort reform is an example. However, the man has done poorly in debates and his candidacy is thought to be on life-support. He needs to convince people he actually wants to be POTUS and that he has the intellect and gravitas required. To this point, it’s been an all hat, no cattle proposition with him.

    Huntsman? Oh, Huntsman.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  612. more and more Perry is showing us what a Palin candidacy would have looked like

    not pretty is it?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  613. Really pikachu, she pointed out the QE 2 problem, almost a year ago, when the Journal was denying the import of their own journalism, tipped off by a very perceptive Dutch journalist, Josh Livestro, not when it had all come and gone, She joined the Weekly Standard in arguing for the surge in
    Afghanistan. She darn well know what the right of return is, She was apprised of what a scam the whole AGW, having challenged the Interior Department
    in court,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  614. just saying

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  615. Dustin

    I dont think the firms donating to Obama are Donating to Romney -

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc)

  616. more and more Perry is showing us what a Palin candidacy would have looked like

    That is wholly unfair to Sarah Palin. One thing that woman can do is SPEECHIFY! So far, Perry has only assumed the posture that approximates a bump on a log.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  617. our president we have can SPEECHIFY so big effing deal

    and wall street romney can’t SPEECHIFY without sounding like a transgendered Tracy Flick and he’s already the presumptive nominee

    so I don’t see your point Mr. Colonel

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  618. but you wouldn’t, happyfeet.

    Colonelhaiku (75566b)

  619. no I wouldn’t cause my mind is already made up

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  620. You doesn’t, ‘n you can’t, you won’t, ‘n you don’t
    you hasn’t, you isn’t, you even ain’t, ‘n you shouldn’t ‘n you couldn’t.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  621. All Cain needs to do is: run a real campaign in early states, fix the flawed economic plan that is the totality of his message (in part because the conservative base will never go for a regressive sales tax)

    my sense is there is truth in this but that it’s even harder to sell the sales tax to the independents what will make up the margin of victory …

    I like his plan fine but it’s one of those lots of ways to skin a cat things

    he needs to talk up the principles behind the plan more and get away from the idea that he’s all about imposing the 9 9 9 thing, as if he even could

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  622. I think Perry’s done

    how disappointing

    a lot of people believed in him in their hearts and he really let them down

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  623. He needs to do a much better job of connecting with people, but I firmly believe that it will eventually dawn on most people that, of those running, Mitt Romney is the best candidate the Republicans have to offer.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  624. Happy

    I dont think Perry is remotely interested in Florida other wise he would have promised more free goodies

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc)

  625. I don’t understand

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  626. I dont think Perry is remotely interested in Florida other wise he would have promised more free goodies

    LOL… as of October 17, 2011, I don’t think Perry is even remotely interested in running for POTUS.
    His chances are, right now, remote, at best.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  627. Col

    People are starting to right off Romney and saying Perry will win, this is the 4th noe in the last few days:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66113_Page2.html

    Charles Last, Charlie Cook, they are all starting to ring the bell

    Perry is methodical, steady, no flash, just a warm smile and actions

    Romney is a good guy but seems to not be making the sale.

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc)

  628. right off romney was a pun

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc)

  629. Perry is toast, Johnson. It gives me no pleasure to write that. We need all the competition possible to help us select the most capable candidate with the best chance of unseating Obama and righting the sinking ship of State.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  630. National Soros Radio ladles on the helpful

    Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney appears to be headed into the 2012 GOP presidential primary season as the consistent, if not overwhelming, favorite for his party’s nomination.

    But there remains great discomfort among a wide swath of party members over the striking similarity of the Massachusetts health care reform legislation Romney signed in 2006 as governor, and the federal health care overhaul President Obama put his signature on last year.

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  631. that one didn’t go through

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  632. Col

    I wish you luck on your candidate, I think he has run long and hard for this moment and I can understand how tough it is to be there long before others

    Romney’s a good guy,

    EricPWJohnson (c5f1fc)

  633. noted Canadian racist Mr. David Frum coins new phrase!

    executive public office

    Thanks, Mr. Frum!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  634. Ah, pikachu, you know you could probably share a
    vegan pancake with Mr. Frum,

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  635. I don’t share vegan pancakes Mr. cormac

    I eat them all up!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  636. He’s spent, by far, the most money. He did in the last primary too. He’s got most of the endorsements, but he did then too. He’s had half a decade to sell himself to us, though perhaps he wasted it, because as we debated federal romneycare, or the debt ceiling, or even many 2010 primary contests, Romney was conspicuously late to opine. He missed his chance to show us he knows the way. He was a follower.

    I think if the nomination were a prize, awarded to the most skilled politician, Romney would deserve it. If it were a product, exchanged for the most campaign spending, Romney would have earned it.

    But it’s not that. It’s actually a matter of faith. That’s why Romney just can’t get more than those seeking only victory for their party with the GOP’s Bill Clinton (meaning skilled politician and triangulator).

    The country faced a fork in the road in 2008 and we chose the wrong fork, and now it’s either time to be brave and admit it, or continue heading down this path forever.

    Just about every Republican has, at some point, given plenty of thought to Mitt Romney. At this point, most folks have made up their mind about him, one way or the other. They know his record on gun rights, on sanctuary cities, on regulating the crap out of people’s private matters like health insurance, even on abortion. On all these matters, the biggest problem isn’t that Romney doesn’t know the right answer. Hell, I’ve heard Romney give the right answer to all these issues. The problem is he’s also given the opposite answer too, undermining his word. We can’t use a weathervane for a compass.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  637. Perry is toast, Johnson. It gives me no pleasure to write that. We need all the competition possible to help us select the most capable candidate

    Naw. He’s got plenty of money and he’ll be in those debates. He, at the very least, has plenty of time to talk to the voters.

    It’s way, way too early to call this race. We won’t know who is the nominee until many primaries in, and we’re months away from the first one.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  638. primaries start in less than 3 months

    and you know wall street romney had a hand in that

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  639. Q: What’s your position on Iran’s provocations in Iraq, Afghanistan and within the continental U.S., Governor Perry? What specific actions do you recommend should be taken to dissuade Iran?

    A” “Um, ah dunno ’bout all that, but y’all should see what we done in Texas!”

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  640. Q: What’s your position on Iran’s provocations in Iraq, Afghanistan and within the continental U.S., Governor Perry?

    Perry, btw, has taken advantage of many opportunities to discuss foreign policy for many years. He’s written on the topic and given speeches recently, such as one to the VFW. He also has far more foreign policy experience and success than any other candidate. The trade Texas conducts with other countries is tremendous, and much of it complex.

    Perry seemed to cast Obama’s pressure on Israel not as a rush to peace but as a barrier to peace. He “put them in a position of weakness taking away our flexibility to offer concessions,” Perry said.

    And Perry offered a muscular critique of the Obama Administration, which he said should have aligned itself more forcefully with the Iranian opposition, and was “slow to recognize the risk posed by the new regime in Egypt.”

    “Our muddle of a foreign policy has created greater uncertainty in the midst of this Arab Spring,” he said. And he threatened the Palestinian Authority that the U.S. ” will have to reconsider the $4 billion in assistance we have provided the Palestinians.”

    Etc etc etc.

    Perry did screw up in claiming to support Huntsman’s cut and run strategy, but it appears to have been a simple gaffe. Otherwise, it’s pretty clear what Perry’s foreign policy is.

    Romney also, as I’m sure we all remember, said the USA had learned our lesson and should leave Afghanistan as soon as we possibly can. He then ‘amended’ his view because… it wasn’t popular.

    Romney and Perry have articulated many of the same foreign policy views, such as a hard line on Iran, and strong support for Israel. In both ways, these men are far better than Obama.

    I’m surprised anyone has been interested in politics at all and still didn’t know Perry’s foreign policy, though.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  641. Trinko, Romney’s other Hugh Hewitt, claims that Tea partiers are actually isolationists.

    That’s meant to provide some kind of insight into Perry’s foreign policy (I note that she has a source who talked to Perry about his policies, and she simply didn’t provide any information about it… just what it isn’t, which Trinko suggests shows Perry is out of step).

    I think that’s all they’ve got. Perry and Romney are actually difficult to distinguish on this issue, aside from experience.

    it’s hard to get beyond the platitude level on foreign policy. ‘The USA must stand with Israel’. or ‘We can’t be weak and apologize all the time’ or ‘We must lay out the mission clearly before engaging’.

    Romney and Perry both say that kind of thing. I recall Perry linking foreign policy to energy and economic strength, and though I don’t recall, I am quite sure Romney’s done the same.

    Anything too much more specific than this would actually be foolish.

    Here’s what Perry said about Libya:

    “The crumbling of Muammar Ghadafi’s reign, a violent, repressive dictatorship with a history of terrorism, is cause for cautious celebration. The lasting impact of events in Libya will depend on ensuring rebel factions form a unified, civil government that guarantees personal freedoms, and builds a new relationship with the West where we are allies instead of adversaries.”

    I mean, yeah, sure, I agree. But this seems like a very easy thing for a candidate to say.

    Perry’s work for Texas has taken him to China, Mexico, Iraq, Israel, Italy, Qatar, Turkey, France, and Sweden. Texas is always seeking new industries and trading deals.

    Apparently Perry has even worked with the Israel Defense Force when he served in the Air Force.

    I think he’s got a very broad base of experience to draw from, but I’m not sure his actual policy can be distinguished from Romney.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  642. Perry’s a veritable son-ambulant, as he can’t think on his feet. Shame some are the last to realize that.

    ColonelHaiku (75566b)

  643. Q-Mitt what would you do vis a vis Iran?

    A-SECURITY GET THIS ANTI-MORMON BIGOT OUT OF HERE………TO THE LIAR WITH YOU.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  644. Lair*

    DohBiden (d54602)

  645. Actually, I think Romney has articulated a fairly good line on Iran, though it’s basically what Pawlenty said (And what Perry said later).

    I think Pawlenty has a great foreign policy. The others have facsimiles of it.

    It strikes me that this is a change of subject from what actually differentiates the candidates.

    Anyway, I don’t want the president to think on his feet with his foreign policy. That’s a gameshow skill, and Romney’s record in MA shows it doesn’t create jobs or make the state less intrusive.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  646. Q-Romney what are your stances on abortion?

    A-YOU ANTI-MORMON BIGOT TO THE LAIR WITH YOU.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  647. Actually, I recall Romney was very ‘splunge’ on the original surge in Iraq, at the time, how he was weak, to be charitable on Obama’s abandonment ofthe Iranian green movement, how he thought the Egyptian revolution was a good idea, despite the fact that they are preventing Nour, the only decent fellow in the whole lot, from running for President, because of a bogus conviction during the Mubarak era, in addition seeing how the Libyan situation is tied strongly to a clique of Quatari Islamists, who supported the likes of Bel Hadj (from today’s Journal)

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  648. This is from an earlier piece, to which todays was a response, sounds just like the original operation
    in Afghanistan, what could go wrong

    http://digitaljournal.com/article/312686

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  649. Ian, yeah, I recall Romney taking some flack for his very delayed support for the surge.

    He also used the word ‘time table’ to describe what he thought Bush should be doing with Iraq.

    (Question) McCain is referring to an interview you did last April 3rd, when you were asked, “Do you believe that there should a be timetable in withdrawing the troops?“ You responded, ”Well, there is no question but that the president and Prime Minister al-Maliki have to have a series of timetables and milestones that they speak about.“ Does he have a point?

    (Romney’s answer) No, he doesn’t have a point. Those are the same kind of timetables we’re dealing with right now. For instance, in bringing our troop strength down by July, we bring down by five brigades. But I’ve never said that we should have a date certain to withdraw

    Most of us probably recall Mccain and Huckabee having a field day with that, and Romney having another complex parsing analysis to explain why he didn’t say that.

    Regardless, it’s so easy to ‘think on your feet’ when you are reciting the talking points of the day. That is not deep. Merely having a platoon of comments at one’s ready disposal is not military leadership.

    Is it bad to be quick witted? Not necessarily, though honestly I prefer when a candidate has to sit and think and then provide a real answer, I know that’s the worst strategy for these debates. He appears stupefied for actually using his brain.

    I also think Romney’s leadership would rely heavily on the decisions of others, such as lawyers and other countries, and I think be more like Obama than Bush in that regard.

    Consider this:

    Q: If you were president, would you need to go to Congress to get authorization to take military action against Iran’s nuclear facilities?

    Romney: You sit down with your attorneys and tell you what you have to do, but obviously, the president has to do what’s in the best interest of the US to protect us against a potential threat. The president did that as he was planning on moving into Iraq and received the authorization of Congress.

    Q: Did he need it?

    Romney: You know, we’re going to let the lawyers sort out what he needed to do and what he didn’t need to do, but certainly what you want to do is to have the agreement of all the people in leadership of our government, as well as our friends around the world. But the key thing here is to make sure that we don’t have to use military action against Iran. And that’s why we’re going to have to put a lot tougher sanctions on Iran, economic sanctions, credit sanctions, and treating Ahmadinejad like the rogue and the buffoon that he is.
    Source: 2007 Republican debate in Dearborn, Michigan Oct 9, 2007

    Also consider this

    Q: Would you go to war with Iran if they developed nuclear weapons & threatened Israel?

    Romney: Well, clearly your hypothetical suggests that everything we’ve done, up until this point and beyond, didn’t work. And there’s a lot we can do to keep that scenario from occurring. Before you actually take military action, what you do next is this: the president meets with leaders, Republican and Democrat, to make sure we’re all on the same page. We want to make sure that Democrats sign up, that we’re all part of this on a unified basis. Number two, you meet with our allies around the world and make sure we’re on the same page on this, including China & Saudi Arabia. Now we take the military option off the table. When they see our military in our hand, a possible blockade or possible aerial strikes, they recognize we mean business. And that’s going to make them think twice and, hopefully, abandon their folly. Because it is unacceptable to the world for us to have a nuclear Iran.
    Source: 2007 GOP debate at UNH, sponsored by Fox News Sep 5, 2007

    Romney sounds so much like Bush 41′s leadership style, and I think that was simply an effort to placate voters who were opposed to the Iraq war on the basis that we went it alone (Which isn’t even fair).

    His 2008 campaign had a theme of “Change Begins With Us.”

    I think that’s good politics. Great politics at a time when Bush’s stock hit an all time low. Everyone understood.

    Is it true that the man in those comments above is thinking on his feet with respect to foreign policy? Of course not. But that’s not really bad. And I don’t think his evolution on some of these topics is all that bad, either, because foreign policy is unpredictable.

    This is one area where flip flops may be OK if the situation has changed. Anyway, I think Romney would rely on his horde of advisers, and Perry would have something similar, and both would lead approximately the same. Perry would be less prone to crumbling if something was unpopular, but I don’t know if that makes him better or worse.

    I’m just satisfied that foreign policy is not a good basis for preferring one of these candidates over the other, but a good basis for preferring either to Obama.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  650. Romney hasnt made the sale with this guy – he footnotes much of his reasoning

    http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2011/10/18/the_conservative_case_against_mitt_romney_2011_edition/page/full/

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4)

  651. That’s all well and good, but China (along with Russia and France) had commercial interests in Iraq
    (oil for food program)and Saudi Arabia, had ideological and sectarian reasons why not to invade
    (the Joseph Wilson affair is impart a pushback, along those lines)

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  652. Two-Thirds of Republican voters are undecided at this point and I am very cool with that. Attempts to shut down debate are uncool.

    daleyrocks (e56eef)

  653. What Haiku’s recent link proves is that Romney doesn’t think Perry is toast. He’s directing most of his attacks at Perry still.

    He just launched a site attacking Perry.

    Kinda amusing, given all the cries for Perry not to attack a fellow Republican back when he entered the race.

    Regardless I think Romney’s attack shows that Perry is the most qualified candidate, and he’s also got the best results. And Romney continues to see Perry as the biggest threat.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  654. Perry is the biggest threat to Romney’s nomination, which is not necessarily the same thing as saying that Perry is the most qualified candidate.

    Icy (d986bf)

  655. Oh my god did you know Mitt Romney could see his past beliefs from his backporch?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  656. Perry is the biggest threat to Romney’s nomination, which is not necessarily the same thing as saying that Perry is the most qualified candidate.

    Comment by Icy — 10/18/2011 @ 11:13 am

    Touche’.

    But Romney’s attack notes that Perry has so much experience.

    Perry’s been in appropriations, he’s been the Texas ag commish dealing with tons of exporting, he’s been our LT Gov, running our leg, he’s been the gov, submitting 12 years of balanced budgets and running many agencies.

    That’s Romney’s attack, if you click my link. That Perry is a career politician. It’s also why I think Perry is the most qualified of the front runners. He has tremendous successful executive experience in government. And in fact, the government is similar in many ways to DC, where Perry can’t just command the legislature closely, but rather has to work through a LT Gov that is much like a rules committee.

    This is why Bush seemed so good at getting legislation passed in his first term. He was experienced from his time as Texas governor.

    That’s why I say that’s what Romney’s attack shows.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  657. Romney is a career presidential candidate. It’s so sad… he must have a tremendous hole in his life he’s trying desperately to fill I think.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  658. Urkel’s campaign has latched onto the ‘outsourcing’ narrative. Of course that Green initiative has too, but the so-libs are not gonna notice that dissonance.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  659. Romney is like an ulcer.

    DohBiden (d54602)


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