Patterico's Pontifications

10/12/2011

Is Rick Perry the new Phil Gramm?

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 2:00 am

[Posted by Karl]

The obvious answer is we don’t know, but allow me to reverse-engineer the question.

Ramesh Ponnuru’s latest column for Bloomberg purports to offer two reasons why Romney beats Not Romney:

[T]he Republican establishment almost always wins presidential-nomination contests, and conservative insurgents almost never do. Since 1984, nobody substantially to the right of the party establishment has won the nomination. Make a mental list of the last four Republican nominees — George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, George W. Bush and John McCain — and the notion of a Romney victory in the primaries becomes less surprising.

Establishment-oriented candidates keep winning for two reasons. The first is that the party establishment has moved to the right, too, co-opting conservatives who might otherwise have overthrown it. ***

***

The second reason the establishment wins is that its opponents never unify behind another candidate.

Although there is something to both points, I started a straightforward critique focusing on the first.  Ponnuru’s argument discounts not only the value of prior experience running for president, but also the roles resume and regionalism play alongside ideology in selecting a GOP nominee.  Reviewing the GOP candidates for the nomination in 1988, 1996, 2000, and 2008, it is difficult to find a non-nominee who was substantially to the right of the eventual nominee with experience running a national campaign or an equal to better resume. 

For example, in 2008, Mike Huckabee had been a southern governor, but had less experience running for president than John McCain.  Also, Huck may have seemed more socially conservative than McCain, but he was arguably less fiscally conservative.  In 2000, George W. Bush could draw upon the national experience of his father’s team, was the chief executive of a southern state, and — whatever the right may grumble now — seemed more conservative than McCain.

But what about 1996?  Bob Dole was the vice-presidential nominee, and ran unsuccessfully for the GOP presidential nomination twice — losing to Reagan in 1980 and (sitting veep) George H. W. Bush in 1988.  But he was a Senator from the plains, as opposed to the south or the sunbelt.  On paper, Phil Gramm should have been a formidable rival.  Gramm was a Senator from Texas – a party-switcher, but more conservative than Dole.  He entered the race with big buzz and even bigger bucks.  Gramm ultimately fizzled due to image problems (which is saying something when the competition is Bob Dole) and because social conservatives favored Pat Buchanan, particularly in the early Louisiana caucus.  The 1996 campaign may be the best example where the establishment candidate won the nomination due to disunited conservatives.

Phil Gramm would likely be the first to concede that Rick Perry is a better-looking candidate than he was, but parallels remain.  Perry is from Texas — a party-switcher, but with a more conservative record than Romney.  Perry has been painted by Romney as overly harsh on spending issues, while more hardcore conservatives are offended by his tone and positions on issues like the Texas Dream Act and find him to be a crony capitalist.  His early debate performances contributed to a bad image with the base that watched them.  Thus, after a splashy entrance, Perry finds himself struggling for the Not Romney vote with Herman Cain.

Speaking of Cain, if you review those past GOP candidate lineups, you will find he fills two familiar slots: Fiery Talk Show Guy and Unelected Businessguy With a Tax Plan (presumably to compensate for the lack of political resume).  If Rick Perry has to worry about being Phil Gramm, Herman Cain has to worry about being the lovechild of Pat Buchanan and Steve Forbes.

UpdatePonnuru responds, but it seems he views this post as more of a critique than it is.  I “started” that way, but his column was ultimately a springboard for the Perry-Gramm comparison.  He also argues that resume is a third reason establishment candidates tend to win.  Again, he has a point, although by restricting his analysis to post-1984, he gets to take as a given that Reagan shifted the entire GOP to the right after gaining experience running against Nixon in 1968 and Ford in 1976.  Reagan showed that a less-establishment conservative can win, given the right resume and prior experience running… but Reagan was a much better candidate than Gramm or Perry so far.

–Karl

192 Responses to “Is Rick Perry the new Phil Gramm?”

  1. Is Rick Perry the new Phil Gramm?

    No, Phil Gramm liked women.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  2. I would argue that the 1996 campaign is the best example of the establishment candidate winning the nomination because he was in a position to use extensive blackmail on interest groups. I recall having a chance to talk with Tanya Metaksa of the NRA at the time, and asked why the NRA stayed neutral given Dole’s horrible record on gun control.

    She said that Dole had come right out and told the NRA leadership that, either they let him win the nomination, or he’d see to it that, as Senate leader, an absolute flood of gun control legislation came our way. I have no doubt that he did the same with other conservative groups which would otherwise have opposed him vigorously.

    Anyway, to those two points I would add a third: Because the GOP establishment is working against conservative candidates, and the MSM is also interested in having the least conservative candidate get the Republican nomination, the GOP establishment has the media ‘wind’ behind them. It’s one of the few instances where the media and the GOP aren’t at cross purposes.

    Brett Bellmore (6652c2)

  3. Daley, consider a classier approach to political discussions than mocking Perry as gay every few days. You may now go back to insincere whining about how unfair I am to Romney.

    The second reason the establishment wins is that its opponents never unify behind another candidate.

    They will find a reason any candidate doesn’t measure up. Usually they are pretty justified, too. Most politicians are downright lame and all but a tiny handful really deserve our respect anymore.

    But at the end of the day, they wind up with a complete RINO because they never rallied behind the 80% ally.

    Most Republicans would rather have Perry than the establishment choice expected to win, but are split among various other candidates they prefer to Perry (That is Perry’s own fault, and yet this is how we always fall into the RINO trap, so maybe we need to cut him some slack).

    If not Perry, so be it, and then we’ll need to rally behind someone else. Gingrich/Ryan, Cain/Gingrich, etc etc. Pretty good tickets.

    The right is different today than it was in 2008. Candidates similar to Romney and supported by the establishment, the Murkowskis and Crists and Castles, lost primary challenges. As I whined about Castle losing, because the opponent was less electable, I kept hearing folks explain they are sick and tired of making enormous compromises, and if that means losing, well they accept that. I think that’s a big mistake, but I respect that some of these people really mean it.

    Those tentatively in Romney’s camp simply for his electability should consider today’s environment. I hear a lot of folks already worried about this. It’s a preventable problem.

    Why support Romney, anyway? Anyone who thinks Romney will reform entitlements is crazy or stupid. You’d have to ignore most of Romney’s own campaign. And anyone who rules out reforming entitlements is not serious about the future of this country. Period.

    It’s one of the few instances where the media and the GOP aren’t at cross purposes.

    Comment by Brett Bellmore — 10/12/2011 @ 3:35 am

    Great point. The people who arrange democrats to screen our candidates also tell us Romney is the man.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  4. Did Gramm’s candidacy collapse as Perry’s has?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  5. I just remembered that they overhauled Texas education funding in 2006 or maybe 2005, freezing spending in some aspects.

    The teachers union sued.

    So Haiku’s source that was whining that Perry should have cut spending sooner was actually wrong. It’s just that he makes a lot of cuts.

    Too bad Haiku isn’t here to learn.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  6. oops. Wrong thread. My apologies. Let’s keep that snafu in one thread instead of ruining two of them.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  7. mmm… as for Cain, if we want to look at an old template, H. Ross Perot seems like a closer example, only not running as an independent (i hope).

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  8. Last night, Perry said that the American people are “untrustworthy”. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I think he meant to say “untrusting”.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  9. mmm… as for Cain, if we want to look at an old template, H. Ross Perot seems like a closer example, only not running as an independent (i hope).

    Comment by Aaron Worthing — 10/12/2011 @ 5:17 am

    LOL. Yeah, let’s hope.

    Anyone even hinting third party on the campaign trail needs instant and widespread condemnation. Even if the nominee is Romney, we’re going to need to stick together or there’s no point to any of this drama.

    I do see some of Perot in Cain too.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  10. Yes, keep your flailing where it belongs, Dustin.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  11. “Quick and dirty debate after-report: Perry is running out of gas; Excuses, excuses”

    - Michelle Malkin

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  12. don’t feed the troll, Dustin, don’t feed the troll.

    Anyway, I really like Cain just on a visceral level. But his Romney preference over Perry just plain makes no sense to me.

    He said he was going to go after Romney last night on twitter (sigh) and he didn’t really do it. He gave Romney an open ended answer without challenge or substantial criticism.

    Is this guy conservative enough to reject Romney? The non-romney candidate should reject Romney, after all.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  13. That US News piece you relied on, was deeply dishonest, there are other states that have similar factors, yet they don’t generate job growth. Amd it’s way past time to tout the Massachussett’s miracle, specially with the tripling of insurance premiums, that many of the state’s Tea Party contingent have told me about.

    That being said, I have found Perry’s campaign to be incredibly seat of the pants, for someone who seriously considered a run, then again he is one of the few in the campaign that is even willing to raise the QE and other issues. Newt gets points for dinging Dodd and Frank, which are lost in proportion to his lobbying for Freddie Mac

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  14. e is one of the few in the campaign that is even willing to raise the QE and other issues.

    Yeah, that was another good example of some candidates actually criticizing Perry for bringing this up. What this country has to do to pay for its massive size is already absurd, and will only get worse.

    That being said, I have found Perry’s campaign to be incredibly seat of the pants,

    Well at least the ads are pretty good. At this point, it’s too late to hope Perry changes much. This is the candidate, for better or worse.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  15. Haiku, did you actually read Malkin? By citing her, are you endorsing her views?

    In the article you quote, she says

    And Romney? Ugh. Main takeaway: He defended TARP — echoed by Cain — and refused to say he would oppose the next massive bailout to come along when another manufactured crisis hits. More of the same old big biz/big government corporatism.

    Ouch.

    But anyway, I agree that Perry didn’t shine last night. Wish it had been better, but it could have been worse. If Perry’s going to win, he has to do it outside these debates.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  16. Has Rick Perry actually convinced anyone – other than the folks who believe he walks on water – that he wants to be the 45th POTUS? He certainly hasn’t convinced me.

    If others are convinced, what has Perry done during this campaign that give them the confidence he does?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  17. Why stop there, Dustin? Malkin went on to say:

    “To be fair, if you and I had to be up on stage with Charlie Rose and Karen Tumulty, we’d be soporifically stupefied after a few minutes, too.

    But then again, we’re not running for the highest office in the land and raising millions of dollars from people across the country who are counting on a candidate with the guts, gall, and gumption to take on Barack Obama.

    By those basic measures of fitness for office, Rick Perry once again failed to deliver. He was languid. Passive. Half-hearted. Listless. Just like he was during the 9/23 debate.

    I’m really, really trying to be nice.

    Looks like Team Perry’s plan to have him sleep more isn’t working.

    At one point during the debate, candidates were allowed to question each other. Armed with the golden gift of new White House records showing intimate meetings between Romneycare architect Jonathan Gruber and the Obama administration, Perry mumbled a jovial question at Romney for a few seconds — after which Romney steamrolled him with his usual spin for the next several minutes.

    Perry disappeared somewhere under the table after that. Or maybe he was playing Words with Friends on his iPhone. Or looking at his watch George H.W. Bush-style.

    At another point, Perry mentioned “block granting” — several times — as the answer to America’s fiscal prayers.

    Crickets chirped in the audience.

    His next golden opportunity to show a fighting spirit came when Tumulty asked him about Obama’s Solyndra disaster.

    He failed to go after Obama’s crony corruption (perhaps because of all the skeletons in his own closet).

    He failed to go after the green jobs racket (perhaps because of all the skeletons in his own closet).

    And instead, he defended the state-level subsidies game of picking winners and losers.Word to Rick Perry: Nytol will help you get your zzzz’s, but if it’s this draining for you at the primary election stage, maybe this dog ain’t huntin’.

    If you can’t convince rank-and-file conservatives you have the gas, pull over and let someone else drive. We tried a GOP candidate running on half a tank in 2008. Don’t need a repeat of that disaster.”

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  18. btw, i am going to confess something…

    i don’t remember Gramm that well in the first place. I just remember him as one of many people who fizzled when trying to run for President, but I have very little memory of why he did.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  19. i don’t remember Gramm that well in the first place. I just remember him as one of many people who fizzled when trying to run for President, but I have very little memory of why he did.

    Comment by Aaron Worthing — 10/12/2011 @ 6:21 am

    He helped author the Graham-Leach-Bailey Act which Clinton signed. It loosened up the Glass-Steagall Act allowing banks to get into the speculative investments. Was one of the reasons(Barney Frank and CAIR[?] rules the other] the mortgage bubble was created leading to the 2008 collapse.

    vor2 (6c8528)

  20. John Podhoretz writes:

    “To say that Mitt Romney dominated last night’s Republican presidential debate in New Hampshire wouldn’t quite do his performance justice. By the end of the evening, he seemed to be the only even remotely plausible presidential candidate on the stage.

    In part that was due to the failure of the seven other candidates to rise to the occasion.

    Rick Perry came into last night on life support, having fallen from the lead to third place in polls behind the gadfly Herman Cain. Midway through a lifeless and passionless performance, it became clear that before Perry stepped out on the stage he had signed a “Do Not Resuscitate” order for his campaign and then began to sink gently into the national political twilight.
    Yep, the most presidential: Mitt Romney at last night’s Republican debate in New Hampshire.

    It wasn’t a towering disaster for him the way his performance in the Fox debate three weeks ago was. He was trying hard in that contest, and the pain then came from how badly his efforts had failed. Last night Perry wasn’t even trying, so it just wasn’t as difficult to watch.”

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/and_then_there_was_mitt_e843MDEeBa232vV4Yp4v0H#ixzz1aZieY0zV

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  21. Gramm-Leach-Bliley did not contribute to the mortgage bubble. All it did was allow large financial services companies like Citigroup to form.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  22. Anyway, I really like Cain just on a visceral level. But his Romney preference over Perry just plain makes no sense to me.

    And yet, there it stands. Reality sometimes bites.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  23. Well he was also a part of the Gramm/Ruddman/Hollings deficit reduction plan,
    which of course was gutted by the Courts. I would say the CRA revisions, and the HUD regulation, the Justice Department hammerlock on ‘redlining’
    was much more at fault

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  24. SPQR,

    The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act allowed commercial banks, investment banks, securities firms, and insurance companies to consolidate. For example, Citicorp (a commercial bank holding company) merged with Travelers Group (an insurance company) in 1998 to form the conglomerate Citigroup, a corporation combining banking, securities and insurance services under a house of brands that included Citibank, Smith Barney, Primerica, and Travelers. This combination, announced in 1998, would have violated the Glass–Steagall Act and the Bank Holding Company Act of 1956 by combining securities, insurance, and banking, if not for a temporary waiver process.[1] The law was passed to legalize these mergers on a permanent basis. GLB also repealed Glass–Steagall’s conflict of interest prohibitions “against simultaneous service by any officer, director, or employee of a securities firm as an officer, director, or employee of any member bank.”[2]

    If you have time I’d recommend Susskind’s recent book. Has a very detailed description of just what went wrong within the industries that contributed to the bubble.

    vor2 (6c8528)

  25. vor2, yes that’s the Wikipedia entry. But it did not create nor contribute to the mortgage security bubble itself.

    Arguably, it allowed some of the mergers that happened in ’08 and later to occur where investment banks and consumer banks merged to buttress up the system.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  26. _____________________________________________

    If Rick Perry has to worry about being Phil Gramm,

    I think you’re overly focusing on the philosophy of a candidate like Gramm (or Robert Dole) and ignoring the intangible qualities that affect a person’s likeability quotient. Gramm had what I’d say was the opposite of so-called charisma — saddled with what can be described as a droopy-eyed, non-telegenic face — while someone like Dole seemed dour or had a speech pattern that could be unpleasantly monotone.

    As for Mike Huckabee, he actually was, at least when it came to social-cultural matters, not much less of a squish than McCain was, since I believe Huckabee is opposed to capital punishment. As far as I’m concerned, when any person (politician or otherwise) gets touchy-feely about the idea of ruthless, bloodthirsty felons going to meet their maker, any other issue dealt by that same person from that point onward is also easily susceptible to the phenomenon of teary-eyed feelings instead of common sense (and, in actuality, legitimate, true humaneness).

    Mark (411533)

  27. “Here are some morning-after thoughts on Tuesday’s GOP presidential debate:

    1. Rick Perry’s quest for the presidency is finished, even if his campaign is not. The Texas governor won’t withdraw — and he’s raised enough money to go on for a while. But Perry, desperately in need of a superior debate performance, once again whiffed. He looks like a man who would rather be anywhere on earth than on the debate stage. At this point he cannot undo the damage he’s inflicted on himself; he simply doesn’t have the skill set to do so. Perry will continue to slide in the polls and, I suspect, end up being a fairly marginal figure in the race.”

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/10/12/gop-debate-post-mortem/

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  28. ________________________________________________

    It loosened up the Glass-Steagall Act allowing banks to get into the speculative investments.

    Speaking of which, that therefore makes the following even more insane and irresponsible. Then again, the person at the core of the matter, Eric Holder — as is true of his boss in the Oval Office — is a wonderful, sensible, compassionate, beautiful, humane, heroic, sophisticated, down-to-earth leftist.

    finance.townhall.com, Bob Beauprez:

    The Department of Justice is executing a “Witch Hunt” against banks. Through the DOJ’s Civil Rights Division, Attorney General Eric Holder is forcing banks to “relax their mortgage underwriting standards and approve loans for minorities with poor credit as part of a new crackdown on alleged discrimination,” according to a published report by Investor’s Business Daily after reviewing court documents.

    The DOJ has already extorted $20 million for weak and poor credit loans from banks that “settled out of court rather than battle the federal government and risk being branded racist.” The DOJ admits another 60 banks are already under “investigation.” Holder’s demanding the banks sign “non-disclosure” settlement agreements barring them from talking while allowing the DOJ to operate behind a curtain of secrecy.

    The settlements already extracted from banks force them to make “prime-rate mortgages to low income blacks and Hispanics” with credit problems, even if they are living on welfare. According to IBD, the DOJ has ordered banks to advertise that minorities cannot be turned down for a loan “because they receive public aid, such as unemployment benefits, welfare payments or food stamps.” No job; no problem!

    In other words, the DOJ is forcing banks to make loans to people that they know don’t qualify for them and likely won’t be able to afford to repay them, which is precisely the kind of failed public policy that precipitated the financial collapse and recession in 2008.

    Mark (411533)

  29. “Rick Perry has been in this race for many weeks, we’re 60 days away from early voting in Florida, and he has no plan.”

    http://www.hughhewitt.com/blog/g/f4a60998-6421-4f81-ad7c-c059566604ce

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  30. 20. “he seemed to be the only even remotely plausible presidential candidate on the stage”

    I don’t think this has ever been in dispute.

    But I’d prefer Bill Clinton to Romamba and I actually dragged myself in to vote against Clinton in general elections. Turnout in my WI precinct for H.W. over Slick set a record, like 77%.

    For the life of me I don’t remember what I did with Dole/Gramm/Hatch, tho I liked the last two.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  31. The only “remotely plausible” conservative on the stage has no executive experience, is a god-forsaken lawyer, and a fused IED waiting to detonate.

    I’d say its time for the GOP to stick the Glock in its mouth and end the misery.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  32. “To say that Mitt Romney dominated last night’s Republican presidential debate in New Hampshire wouldn’t quite do his performance justice. By the end of the evening, he seemed to be the only even remotely plausible presidential candidate on the stage.

    In part that was due to the failure of the seven other candidates to rise to the occasion.

    Actually, Gingrich did rise to the occasion as usual. The question seems to becoming NOT “who will beat Obama?” (by 2012 Richard Nixon’s corpse will be able to beat Obama), but rather “Who besides Romney could you see as President?”. For my money, right now, only Gingrich has the experience, wit and ideas to dig us out of this mess. If our next choice is as bad as the last one (or two), we are badly fuc%ed.

    The others:

    Bachmann: Too willing to legislate Christianity. Maybe a little nuts. Fails the experience, brains and sanity tests. Oddly, I like her a lot as a legislator. She’d make a better Senator.

    Cain: naive and inexperienced. 9-9-9 becomes 11-11-11 faster than Obama can say “Fore!” Fails the experience test and maybe the brains test. He’d make a great Senator, though, since those are clearly not needed.

    Huntsman: an ass*ole, probably a Democrat, and a lot dumber than he looks. Romney cleaned his clock on the Bain capital question. Fails the yuck test. I can see why Obama liked him.

    Paul: He has a bunch of theory and is not easily swayed by facts. Too reminiscent of the current guy. Fails the sanity test. Bright as a whip, though.

    Perry: maybe its just Texas, but he seems slow. Fails the brains test.

    Santorum: social issues are not what this election is about. Fails the relevance test.

    I REALLY hope that the Republicans don’t pick an oaf out of some belief that ideology trumps effectiveness. We need effective and that means the ability to hit the ground running. Maybe Perry could do that, too, but I don’t think the country has time for maybes.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  33. In addition to Jonathan Gruber, because Hans wasn’t available, two other advisors who worked
    with Romney, and who went on to jobs with the Obama administration, Gina McCarthy, now a deputy with the EPA, trying to crush coal plants, and John Holdren, former Ehrlich disciple, now the chief White House science advisor

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  34. _______________________________________________

    consider a classier approach to political discussions than mocking Perry as gay every few days.

    The word “homophobia” can be as easily overplayed and overused (or misapplied) as “racist,” but in some ways it can be considered phobic when people start suspecting a person is gay (or bisexual) based on pure conjecture or on no more than minor characteristics observed in that person in public. The thought of Perry diddling another dude is so bizarre to me, I take the rumors about him with a huge grain of salt. However, since we do live in an age of GLBT — of the insanity of the military being PC about Islamic fanaticism and now, at the same time, same-sex behavior — I’d say we’re all headed towards being one big bisexualized family.

    As for Perry, Romney and Cain being squishes or not, I think they all have their weak points, and, as is true of most people, are susceptible to being unpredictable on occasion. I imagine there will be times when a Perry, Romney or Cain in the White House will test my patience or make me irritated, but that will occur perhaps, say, 10% of the time compared with 90-plus% of the time with the current occupant of the Oval Office.

    Mark (411533)

  35. As for Perry, Romney and Cain being squishes or not, I think they all have their weak points, and, as is true of most people, are susceptible to being unpredictable on occasion. I imagine there will be times when a Perry, Romney or Cain in the White House will test my patience or make me irritated, but that will occur perhaps, say, 10% of the time compared with 90-plus% of the time with the current occupant of the Oval Office.

    Indeed!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  36. Re: #8
    Colonel cites Charles
    Johnson? Making hay from a
    misstatement his bag

    Icy (ea0b42)

  37. gulrud’s #31 says all that you need to know . . .

    . . . not about the field of GOP candidates; about him.

    Icy (ea0b42)

  38. _______________________________________________

    For my money, right now, only Gingrich has the experience

    He failed the test with his ex-wife, which I think will always haunt him, certainly among social conservatives—although his snickering a few months ago about cultural rightism didn’t help him too. Moreover, from a purely superficial standpoint — and fairly or not — he has the demeanor of always looking like a cranky or crabby guy.

    Mark (411533)

  39. 32 “I REALLY hope that the Republicans don’t pick an oaf out of some belief that ideology trumps effectiveness.”

    I absolutely agree that the ball game is the Senate, that if we were to get a sea change in the most dysfunctional arm of American government that we could make do with an amoral aristocrat like–god, I can’t believe I’m saying this–Romney.

    On paper it would look promising: 23 ‘effin Democrats up for re-election. But how are we doing, really? AZ doesn’t even have someone to run for Kyl’s seat. Lugar looks safe against Mourdock. Klobuchar in MN is unopposed as yet, Pawlenty yesterday was wishing he was still in this Chinese horserace.

    Romney won’t back anyone who’s not a lock until after the fact. Does Perry have a TEA candidate he’s supporting against|in-place-of KBH? Cain, likewise, isn’t actually focussed on his own race, are you kidding?

    Belgium seems to be hanging in without a government for 2 years and counting. What the hell?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  40. Corporations exist to make a profit………………..which pisses off people.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  41. He failed the test with his ex-wife, which I think will always haunt him, certainly among social conservatives

    Well, the ex-wife’s story is disputed by her daughter, who points out provable factual errors, such as her mom never had cancer, wasn’t dying, the divorce wasn’t discussed at the hospital, and that it was the wife who filed, not Gingrich.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  42. comment stuck in filter

    Kevin M (563f77)

  43. 37. Is this a great country or what? Even the goatherds have hot spots.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  44. Whatever, dude.

    Icy (ea0b42)

  45. To be the next Phil Gramm, you don’t need to merely lose, you need to be a total failure as a candidate as well as raise a lot of money. A Phill Gramm is when somebody raises a lot of money, and thinks he is a contender till the first primaries and caucuses, but gets almost no votes. Newt Gingrich cannot become a Phil Gramm because he doesn’t have a big war chest.

    John Glenn in 1984 for the Democratic nomination was somewhat like Phil Gramm in 1996. John Connally in 1980 for the Republican nomination was another. Giuliani in 2008 probably did not do so bad as to fall into this category.

    I don’t think Rick Perry will be another Phil Gramm. The clear failure has to happen with the first votes to be a Phil Gramm. Tim Pawlenty is not another Phil Gramm. If things turn out that way for Rick Perry he’ll probably quit before the Iowa caucuses and at any rate he won’t talk up his chances as very great.

    Sammy Finkelman (9ab1e5)

  46. Better a herder than a buggerer be.

    Icy (ea0b42)

  47. I never understood why Gramm fizzled so badly. I was all fired up and ready to vote and campaign for him, and then suddenly he wasn’t running any more. Like Palin this year, but with less reason that I could see.

    I ended up deciding that I had literally no preference at all between Dole and Clinton, and slightly preferred either of them to Perot, so I voted for Harry Browne. Even in hindsight I don’t believe that Dole would have been a better president than Clinton, and don’t regret not having voted for him.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  48. As for Perry, Romney and Cain being squishes or not, I think they all have their weak points, and, as is true of most people, are susceptible to being unpredictable on occasion. I imagine there will be times when a Perry, Romney or Cain in the White House will test my patience or make me irritated, but that will occur perhaps, say, 10% of the time compared with 90-plus% of the time with the current occupant of the Oval Office.

    Comment by Mark

    Let’s not equivocate. We have to nominate one of these people, and they are far different from eachother.

    The fact they aren’t Obama is not the only attribute they have. That is a good attribute, but it’s not enough for everyone. I see a few demanding it be enough, but it isn’t. That’s just a fact. You can complain about this if you want, but there’s no changing that.

    There’s only one person I know of who has cut Medicare. That is the president of the United States. He cut it by $500 billion and put it into Obama Care, and I will turn that around. That is wrong,” Romney said. “So when you see your friends with signs that say keep your hands off our Medicare, they are absolutely right. We’ve got to vote that guy out of office.”

    Mitt Romney is promising more entitlement spending. He’s had many statements that show he is fundamentally not serious about entitlements bankrupting our country.

    Obamacare, Romneycare are both fiscal disasters, but what about reforming social security and medicare? Romney is actually as bad or worse.

    We will not head in the direction Paul Ryan is setting for us under the leadership of Romney. The entire conversation will be adjusted accordingly to the left.

    Perry is far better, and proposes a balanced budget amendment. You’re right, he isn’t perfect, but that’s what the post above explains is the right’s problem. Unlike Romney’s fans, who are supporting the next guy in line because that’s the establishment guy will all the endorsements, the right is rejecting its few options and splitting our vote. We will wind up with a more liberal nominee than most of the party actually wants, and should instead rally behind one conservative.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  49. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 6:08 am

    So you take an editorial and copy it to the thread while editing out the opinions that trash Romney?

    Isn’t that pathetic?

    Yeah, Malkin trashes Perry for lacking prime time skills. We all know that. She also finds Romney far less acceptable, if I’m reading her right.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  50. 32. ” Fails the experience, brains and sanity tests. ”

    Rush is on fire today. Re: Tumulty’s indictment of Wall St., postured as a dead raccoon to Bachmann she again nailed the Federal government as the bad actor and Newt doubled down stating that Dodd & Icy’s girlfriend be incarcerated.

    Bachmann has not bungled the debates and yet suffers a similar misogyny to that which Palin evidently eschews.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  51. 45. Chupacabra, will your nanny’s cross-species spousal arrangements be the same on your return?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  52. Bachmann has not bungled the debates and yet suffers a similar misogyny to that which Palin evidently eschews.

    Comment by gary gulrud

    I think her tone is slightly unpleasant, as Santorum’s can be. I think she looked really impressive for a while though obviously her gardasil conspiracy theory didn’t please me very much.

    In fact, I think Bachmann and Santorum are pretty similar, and that they also have similar levels of support suggests it’s not sexism that’s keeping her down. I’m not claiming some aren’t reacting to her wish sexism (I’m sure that’s a factor and know it was for Palin’s enemies too), but I don’t think that’s the main problem for her.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  53. 51. “she looked really impressive for a while though obviously her gardasil conspiracy theory.. ”

    Indeed, why she went after Perry, like a pit-bull with lockjaw, simply because some of her support had deserted her for him, was beeezarre. Build on your strengths not your weaknesses.

    Credibility with the main body of the Right was her greatest need and she should have made the Democrat her target.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  54. 51. “I think Bachmann and Santorum are pretty similar”

    I like Rick more than I thought I would, but just reminds me a Adlai Stevenson, not enough testosterone. I’m superficial.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  55. Rush was sniggering today at Business Insider saying that Cain with his “I’d nominate someone like Alan Greenspan” as having killed his chances with TEAs.

    Yeah, Ok, but Herm’s got a million more where ever that came from. Mayhaps not today but soon.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  56. “…Was one of the reasons…the mortgage bubble was created leading to the 2008 collapse.”
    Comment by vor2 — 10/12/2011 @ 6:26 am

    Poppycock!

    BTW, it is Gramm-Leach-Bliley; and Leach is currently Obama’s guy at the HIH(umanities).

    Also, without GLB, BofA would not have been able to rescue Merrill, which would have gone the way of Lehman – and they aren’t the only consumer bank that bailed out an investment bank, that would have been prevented by the continuation of G-S.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  57. Oops….NIH – National Institute for the Humanities.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  58. I like Rick more than I thought I would, but just reminds me a Adlai Stevenson, not enough testosterone. I’m superficial.

    Comment by gary gulrud — 10/12/2011 @ 11:08 am

    I was actually arguing on this blog against a Perry supporter years ago noting I have a similar impression. He just doesn’t seem like Mr Charisma.

    And I don’t mean to dismiss that particular criticism. Electability is all.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  59. Remind me, gull-rude: Which candidate did I say I was supporting?

    Icy (bb09f1)

  60. I’m superficial.

    – Ya don’t say?

    Icy (bb09f1)

  61. We are no more than months, March say, before a world financial reset.

    Phoenix is entering an ARM refinancing foreclosure rout to lead the nation, the Germans are talking 60% markdown on Greek debt inorder to proceed with the euro where Europe’s banks are just 50% capitalized.

    Morgan Stanley is in hock $39 Billion to Europe, the entire value of its capitalization. When Greece defaults MS, BofA, Citi are all going down with the big three French banks, etc.

    Hedges are taking 25% repayment to investor hits as we speak. While Equities were up big yesterday we have entered a bear market and new highs are gone certainly thru Urkel’s tenure as every one now admits we entered recession end of Q1.

    We don’t need a master manipulator of the old system, we need a Rock of Gibralter to hire the architects of a new system.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  62. 59., 60. Alright Icy, you don’t like me. That should mean you’re good folks, if I’ve learned anything.

    Do your worst but even I feel bad bludgeoning the helpless so don’t take it badly if you’re ignored.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  63. I never understood why Gramm fizzled so badly.

    I saw Gramm speak to some social conservatives in ’96, during the GOP convention in San Diego. Gramm came across to me as rather condescending, like a schoolteacher humoring a somewhat backward group of students.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (a18ddc)

  64. I am good people, gary. Excuse me if I see your “I’m a staunch conservative and none of these candidates is conservative enough for me” routine as not helping the cause. Excuse me again if I have a problem when you trash Romney (not my first choice, but certainly someone I will support if he is the nominee) for being a Mormon, or when you slight Jeff Flake (who happens to be one of my favorite politicians) as having supported Romney due to nothing more than ‘LDS loyalty’.

    This isn’t personal, buddy. I disagree with your opinions

    Icy (bb09f1)

  65. “We don’t need a master manipulator of the old system, we need a Rock of Gibralter to hire the architects of a new system.”

    The sky is falling, a piece of it hit my head.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  66. Gary has a point there, though. We do not need merely someone to properly manage the current system.

    That would be a big improvement, I admit, but we’re still headed for a disaster if we don’t change the entitlement system and force a balanced budget every year. We must stop spending more money than we have.

    Spending more money than we have under the control of a very smart man would be an improvement, but it wouldn’t satisfy conservatives very much.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  67. And I agree with Icy that Flake is definitely one of the good guys and deserves enough respect to assume he isn’t supporting someone just because they share Mormonism.

    BTW, anyone supporting a candidate merely because he is the right religion is a nutcase.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  68. Comment by Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. — 10/12/2011 @ 12:49 pm

    Gramm was worse than a school teacher, he was a University Professor.
    “…He received a doctorate in economics from the University of Georgia’s Terry College of Business in 1967

    He then taught economics at Texas A&M University from 1967 to 1978.[1] In addition to teaching, Gramm founded the economic consulting firm Gramm & Associates (1971–1978)…”
    - Wiki

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  69. 65. Message already received.

    My message is we are all bigots, those who believe otherwise, with almost no exceptions, are self-deluded. Few giants walk among us.

    Bigotry is a defensive intuition, making judgements about the intractably complex on incomplete information.

    Bachmann is the true Christianist on the stage. I like her, respect her and share many of her opinions and values. But I never, for a moment, entertained the fantasy that she had a chance, due in large part to bigoty.

    Its a fact of life, lets deal with reality instead of making up fairytales. We can only make accomodations.

    You may be a Republican, I’ve never been. Reagan was not above reproach but I was happy to vote for him. Voting for whatever turd you can live with will not get me what I want, which is to be accounted for in your calculations prior to your pulling the lever.

    Capice?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  70. What specifically do you want, Gary?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  71. ==Voting for whatever turd you can live with will not get me what I want, which is to be accounted for in your calculations prior to your pulling the lever.
    Capice?
    ==

    No, sorry. I have no idea what that statement means.

    elissa (3567ea)

  72. Elissa, it took me moment to figure out.

    He’s saying you should take into account whether he will support your choice for nomination. He suspects ‘whatever turd you can live with’ will be a candidate he refuses to support, and hopes to use the potential of greater support as an argument for moderates to support a more conservative nominee.

    What I’m asking is specifically what Gary wants.

    Romney is the kind of leader who appoints David Souter or imposes an expensive prescription drug benefit. Perry is the kind of leader who tries to secure the border and then has a ‘heart’ moment on Amnesty. Cain is the kind of guy who appoints Greenspan or misses the housing bubble.

    None of these guys deserve it. None of them.

    But at least for the conservatives, we need to figure out which one to rally around because of the argument quoted in Karl’s post about our strategic weakness compared to the unified GOP establishment.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  73. Yes dustin thanks for the obvious.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  74. You’re welcome!

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  75. 71. You already acknowledged it re: CR2011, the Debt Ceiling and CR2012. Boehner could have gotten a start on razing the DC establishment but chose the security of cynical compromise to maintain the system as it stands. We have to turn these people out.

    72. I swore I wouldn’t vote for McLame in his vainglorious valedictory but somehow he found his way to choosing Palin. Like Milhouse, I pulled the lever ignoring he who would not fight.

    That gambit is spent and cannot be reprised. Turning the GOP demands that they be held accountable. No the Roves will never listen, loyal Republicans will have to purge them and losing they will.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  76. #73, Dustin, while I appreciate you fighting the good fight, you made an error. Perry did not have an “heart” moment on amnesty. In-state tuition, given by at least 12 states in our union, is not the same as amnesty. What it can be said that it is, is nothing more than an extension of the SCOTUS ruling in Texas vs. Certain Named and Unnamed Alien Children which was folded into Plyler.

    I have challenged person after person to show me one other border state governor that has done as much, using state resources not federal resources, to secure our border as Perry has. No one has stepped up to the plate. But you see, since people are trying to find something, anything to beat up on Perry over, they conflate in-state tuition with illegal immigration. Hell, most are so dishonest they just say “Perry is soft on immigration.”

    What I find odd about this is that McCain, Palin and Cain all previously said that they support a pathway to citizenship for illegals.

    Romney can be beaten if the other candidates start going after him. I wonder how Cain is feeling today now that Romney and Christie gave a presser and Christies said that who ever the VP is will be determined by the nominee and that [as of now] his plans are to remain governor. Gee, maybe those plans are subject to change? Hope Cain wasn’t putting too much stock in that Romney/Cain ticket. He just got sold out.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  77. while I appreciate you fighting the good fight, you made an error. Perry did not have an “heart” moment on amnesty.

    You are 100% correct. And Perry has specifically rejected amnesty.

    since people are trying to find something, anything to beat up on Perry over, they conflate in-state tuition with illegal immigration.

    Yes, that’s very annoying.

    I was trying to be somewhat objective about the perceptions of the candidates, including the one I favor.

    The truth is I think Perry showed he leads on that issue with his heart, which I understand but disagree with.

    Thanks for the correction, and thanks for the appreciation, which I value.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  78. 77. Christie too maybe. What does an Easterner do for Electoral diversity?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  79. You’re Welcome.

    :lol: smartass.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  80. Here are some post debate remarks from Perry.

    I think he comes across very well, off the cuff, when interacting with the voters off the debate stage. That doesn’t mean the debate performance doesn’t matter, but if Perry can continue the mild debate performance and the strong speeches, I think that’s very good.

    Also, I found this discussion of Mitt Romney very enjoyable. As you can imagine, it is critical.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  81. Dustin, here is some information that might interest you:

    In 2005, Cato Institute released its Fiscal Policy Report Card on America’s Governors.

    Established governors: Rick Perry, #7 with a B score while Mitt Romney, listed under Freshman Governors Mid Term Grades ranked #11 with a C.

    In Cato’s 2006 rankings, after Romney has served four years, Perry ranked #2. Romney ranked #12, falling behind Democrats Phil Bredesen (TN), John Lynch (NH), Bill Richardson (NM), Brad Henry (OK) and Tom Vilsack (Iowa).

    I also read klsouth a few weeks ago and book marked it for further research. Not much love there for Mittens.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  82. As much as I respect Elissa and Simon and some of the others here, I will find it difficult to support Romney should he become the nominee.

    Were we in a car, driving 100 mph towards a giant rocky cliff, are you better off with another driver that refuses to go faster than 90 mph, or a driver who will apply the brakes?

    We have a craptacular field to choose from.

    JD (f93629)

  83. JD, a non-vote is a vote to return the incumbent.

    Of course, you could really throw your vote away, as I have a few times, and vote Libertarian!

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  84. Why vote 3rd party?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  85. JD isn’t saying that 90 mph isn’t an improvement over 100 mph.

    He’s just admitting that it’s quite a compromise.

    I wish I could tell JD he’s out of his mind to be disappointed with our field. At least the top three men have executive experience.

    And at least we will make gains on the congressional front (may I plug Cruz for TX Sen).

    Not to differ from Elissa’s conclusion, but note that it’s not really clear what the Romney fan is giving up to vote for Perry. If they like Romneycare and gun control, they probably prefer Obama, not Romney. I think most Romney fans really are focused like a laser on Anyone But Obama. Therefore, they give up very little with Perry, as Perry is very much not Obama. If Perry beats Obama, most Romney fans do get most of what they wanted. Less Pizzazz and far less business experience, just to be absolutely honest, but Perry can get advisers for that.

    Perry fans are giving up much more than that, because they think Social Security is a ponzi scheme, quantitative easing is nearly treasonous, and and they hate the health care mandate model.

    I still hope to hit the wall at 90 mph instead of 100 mph, but I hope even more that we can avoid that terrible choice.

    POA complained about Romney’s judicial nominations, and I looked into it. Romney has passed over Republicans for liberal democrats 3 out of 4 times he appointed a jurist. I think he would be a lot better than that in the White House, but we probably would be getting David Souter judges and justices instead of Sotomayors. I don’t even know where to begin expressing how frustrating this is for a conservative.

    We have a winning year in 2012. We probably don’t need to compromise nearly as much as we’re being asked to.

    I don’t think those who struggle with this deserve disrespect.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  86. So you take an editorial and copy it to the thread while editing out the opinions that trash Romney?

    Isn’t that pathetic?

    Comment by Dustin — 10/12/2011

    Gee whiz… touchy, much? Why re-post the bit about Romney, when you’d already done that? The article was primarily about another poor performance by Perry and i was more than happy to share that.

    You’re welcome.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  87. No, AD. It is not. That assumes I have some duty to cast a vote for Team R, a duty I most assuredly do not accept. The only obligation is for the Team R candidate to earn people’s vote.

    JD (f93629)

  88. Re: #8
    Colonel cites Charles
    Johnson? Making hay from a
    misstatement his bag

    Comment by Icy — 10/12/2011

    God forbid! I recorded the debate for posterity and always pay attention whenever Perry opens his mouth to say anything.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  89. Your duty, Mr. JD, is to remove the current cancer from the White House,
    in the best possible way without making the situation worse…
    this msg will self-destruct in 10…9…8…7

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  90. Romneytards are no linking to that demented douche at LGF

    The economy is Onutzis fault.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  91. Think about that last point. Romney didn’t stay as loyal to the GOP in his nominations as the GOP is being asked to stay with regard to a potential Romney ticket.

    It was bad enough in 2008 and 1992.

    Gee whiz… touchy, much? Why re-post the bit about Romney,

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 3:15 pm

    You got this all wrong, brother. I’m happy you endorse anti romney editorials, and just chop the anti-romney parts. That’s like a lazy debater’s dream scenario.

    Malkin is right. That’s what I’m saying. Romney would be a poor president, and Perry disappoints as a candidate, particularly on the debates, when it comes to pizzazz factor. I guess Texas has been voting for Perry because they prefer his agenda, and not because he is the coolest dreamiest more exciting candidate.

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  92. The candidates need to close the deal with Americans and the American people need to follow their own conscience. Whoever is fortunate enough to be the nominee (and every potential R candidate in that room last night would be a big improvement over Barack Obama) either wins their votes or we get treated to another disastrous 4 years of Obama/Biden.

    Seems to be a simple enough choice to me, but I have children, family and friends whose future, health and prosperity depend on it.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  93. Malkin is right. As he has repeatedly shown, Perry doesn’t have the stamina, energy, much less mental acuity to run for POTUS.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  94. A National Texas Campaign!

    Bar-B-Que Across America, hosted by Texas’ favorite Governor.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  95. 81. “He can argue any side of a question. And sometimes you think he’s really believing his argument, but he’s not.” – Ann Romney, the wife of Mitt Romney

    Well I picked that up well short of having his first child.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  96. every potential R candidate in that room last night would be a big improvement over Barack Obama

    Naw. Some would be moderate improvements, and only arguably. This is mostly a matter of faith. It really depends on how you calculate our political future. Is Obama outraging the country to the point where he could be followed with real reforms? Then stifling those reforms with a panderer on entitlements might be a worst long term plan than Obama having four more years and then the reforms. This is Rush Limbaugh’s argument, I believe.

    It’s hard to accept, but I think it’s equally reasonable as assuming a moderate republican won’t shift the entire discourse to the left.

    The GOP president often represents the right edge of the mainstream. It is difficult to accomplish anything more conservative than the leader of the GOP agrees with. For those who want Obamacare repealed, it’s a bitter pill to vote Romney in 2012.

    If Romney fans believe in loyalty to Republicans, why in the world are they Romney fans?

    That all said, I merely come to a less strong resolve, but the same decision. Vote for the GOP nominee and pray.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  97. Malkin is right. As he has repeatedly shown, Perry doesn’t have the stamina, energy, much less mental acuity to run for POTUS.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    None of these candidates really deserve it, I agree.

    We have to pick the least bad option. None of them are totally acceptable to me. Perry is 80-90% on my side, and on the side of most conservatives. I think his ability to get the job done is already well proven, as he’s presided over excellent success over a large government.

    He, however, is not good enough, just as I think none of the other candidates are really good enough. As my videos show, Perry actually is very quick on his feet and shows ‘mental acuity’ (hahahaha). It’s not really the case that folks with southern accents are stupid. This 30 second debate format is kicking his ass, but that’s only a problem as a candidate in some situations.

    It’s not a problem as president.

    So, who are we going to pic, now that Haiku agrees Malkin is right and Romney is not acceptable?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  98. GO CARDINALS !!!!!!!!!!

    JD (f93629)

  99. I like Michelle Malkin. Would I let her make a decision for me? No more than I’d let a Rush Limbaugh. They are entertainers.

    Your desperation is fraying around the edges, Dustin. No more excuses for your lackluster wannabe leader.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  100. 85.Why vote 3rd party?

    I voted 4th party in the contest pitting Norm ‘ShapeShifter’ Coleman versus Al ‘AnalPore’ Franken. Of course the MN Supremes stole the election but I did my part to retire Norm from politics–’course his family telling him to get gainful employment or get out of the house helped.

    DE retired that tick Castle with similar prejudice.

    Now Michele the Waterloo Wombat can thrash the SaintLouisPark Cruiser in 2014 and no one can hold her ‘flakiness’ against her.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  101. Your desperation is fraying around the edges, Dustin. No more excuses for your lackluster wannabe leader.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 3:42 pm

    Yeah yeah yeah, you hate my guts and have 1000 lame taunts.

    Would I let her make a decision for me? No more than I’d let a Rush Limbaugh

    But you said her column was accurate. Now on the part that differs with you, she’s a mere entertainer?

    Anyway, we all realize you are not letting any argument change your mind. Mitt Romney could run as a democrat with Barack Obama and I would bet you support him anyway.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  102. Did epwj ever source his claim/asspull that Romney claiming to be a Dem ?

    JD (f93629)

  103. After watching last night’s debate, Sen. Mike Lee (R., Utah), a tea-party favorite, tells NRO that Herman Cain and Mitt Romney “appear to be the frontrunners.”

    “It appeared to me that Herman Cain and Mitt Romney were the strongest performers,” Lee says. “You could tell also, just by the way the questions were pitched, who was being picked on the most. And Mitt Romney and Herman Cain appear to be the frontrunners. Polling data seems to be backing that up.”

    Lee add that he understands Cain’s quick rise. ”He’s very talented,” he says. “He’s a very endearing person; you meet him and he has a very magnetic personality. But, you know, they’re all talented. Mitt Romney has a very presidential swagger as well. We’ll see what happens. . . . I could support any one of these people, and will gladly do so.”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/279962/lee-cain-romney-appear-be-frontrunners-betsy-woodruff

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  104. “Our Founding Fathers never meant for Washington, D.C. to be the fount of all wisdom. As a matter of fact they were very much afraid if that because they’d just had this experience with this far-away government that had centralized thought process and planning and what have you, and then it was actually the reason that we fought the revolution in the 16th century was to get away from that kind of onerous crown if you will.

    - Governor Rick Perry, displaying his excellent grasp of American history

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  105. “Malkin is right. As he has repeatedly shown, Perry doesn’t have the stamina, energy much less the mental acuity to run for POTUS.”

    ColonelHaiku

    And Michelle Malkin became an expert on someone’s “mental acuity to run for POTUS” when? What are her degrees, and training, to be able to make those calls? Or did she get another memo from that hyperventilating Pam Geller?

    Does she not realize that even after dumping massive amounts of money and resources into Iowa, Mitt Romney couldn’t even beat Mike Huckabee in the Iowa caucuses on Jan. 3, 2008 and by February, 2008 he folded like a cheap suit?

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  106. Anyway, we all realize you are not letting any argument change your mind. Mitt Romney could run as a democrat with Barack Obama and I would bet you support him anyway.

    “we”? LOL. An army of Dustins… better send in the Marines…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  107. ColonelHaiku, are you also going to reprint the gaffes made by Romney, Cain and the rest of the field?

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  108. And Michelle Malkin became an expert on someone’s “mental acuity to run for POTUS” when? What are her degrees, and training, to be able to make those calls? Or did she get another memo from that hyperventilating Pam Geller?

    No, she worked on a farm in the middle of a drought. Your prescription for a qualified person, gramps.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  109. Well, 16 is closer to 18, than 57 is to 50; or dating a guest-book a couple years earlier than your visit.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  110. ColonelHaiku,

    yeah, we, Dustin, and me.

    OMG, Lee said that Romney has a “swagger?” Isn’t that what they said about Reagan and Bush, II? I thought that was an insult. Now I guess it is a complement.

    What was up is now down and what was down in now up.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  111. ColonelHaiku, are you also going to reprint the gaffes made by Romney, Cain and the rest of the field?

    Comment by retire05

    Can’t seem to find too many of those, pops. Perry has cornered the market on fookuppery.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  112. Gramps? Tell me, where did you buy that crystal ball that allows you to determine my age and gender from a moniker?

    I gotta get me one of those.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  113. I gotta get me one of those.

    I bet that’s a common refrain around your neck of the woods.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  114. ColonelHaiku, have you checked out getting a job at the best little whore house in Texas yet? Don’t waste your time. It was moved to New York for a while and then torn down.

    But hey, I hear you can get a job on 11th Street in Austin.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  115. You dummy, Haiku, it’s a Will Smith line from Independence Day.

    Not real bright, are you?

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  116. 106. And the Plain Folk and Christianists in IA have no abiding regard for the Bible Belt brand.

    If Huckabee tosses in with Romney, or Cain is bewitched, don’t expect their constituents to fall into line.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  117. Perry has cornered the market on fookuppery

    Project much?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  118. Romney said last night he was a proud democrat when he passed that entitlement

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  119. vor2, you might want to read this WSJ-OpEd about the causes of the ’08 meltdown….
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203633104576623083437396142.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_h

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  120. More Proof

    http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/12/oh-my-cain-30-romney-22-gingrich-15-perry-14/

    Or as Allah puts it

    “Republicans really, really, really don’t want to nominate Mitt Romney.”

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  121. Cite, please.

    JD (f93629)

  122. Republicans dont want to nominate the Democrat Romney

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  123. Did epwj ever source his claim/asspull that Romney claiming to be a Dem ?

    Comment by JD — 10/12/2011 @ 3:51 pm

    No, EPWJ was talking about one of Romney’s arguments, which he’s saying is tantamount to being a democrat. Romney obviously ain’t no dem. The GOP tent includes a lot of folks, Sometimes even Arlen Specter and Charlie Crist, today Lisa Murkowski and Lindsey Graham.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  124. Okay, I did a little googling, and it appears epwj is making it up again. SHOCKA

    JD (f93629)

  125. Epwj – closest I could find was that he said he could work with good Dems, and there are miles and miles between that and what you are claiming.

    JD (f93629)

  126. You know, we’ve talked about crisis this evening, economic crisis, people out of work, incomes going down. But there’s another crisis, and that’s that people wonder whether their future will be brighter for the kids than it’s been for them. It’s always been what it means to be American, to have a greater degree of confidence in the future than even what we’ve enjoyed ourselves.

    -Barrack Hussein Obama September 2007

    -Mitt Romney October 11, 2011

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  127. Romney said last night he was a proud democrat

    Cite, please.

    After asking nicely at least 7 times, I have to now assume that you are just making that up, as it should be very easy to cite, were it true.

    JD (f93629)

  128. “we”? LOL. An army of Dustins… better send in the Marines…

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 3:59 pm

    ?

    Romney is not the frontrunner. He never really was, and he never really will be.

    The GOP wants someone other than Romney. Your pathetic candidate has outspent the entire rest of the field combined, and he’s campaigned for this office for half a decade.

    Because we, meaning honest conservatives, reject Romney. Some are even giving Newt a second chance.

    You can pretend Romney is winning the debates, but his support level is flat because Romney is a shameless liar with no character. Nobody believes him.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  129. He’s basically calling you a threat to Romneymerica.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  130. He claimed to be a democrat when running in MA

    He claimed to be an independent when running against Reagan and Bush against Ted

    Romney isnt a serious candidate he’s not going anywhere if he gets traction then the videos are coming out – I mean the establishment that everyone laments is picking romney – gee the guy couldnt handle huck

    Rick just got a 300 million dollar TV buy from several pacs running the Texas miracle – funny no one’s running commercials for anyone else

    CEO’s and working people are voting for Rick – the eyor job creater and unuion buster and the independents and liberals are cheezing for cain and romney

    The guy came in 4th to Fred, Huck, and McCain

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  131. Too much friendly fire. Gack.

    Comment by Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R.

    This reminds me of 1992. It is sad, but it’s also important to realize what it means if we nominate someone this difficult to support.

    But then, I don’t think that’s a major worry now that I see the new polls.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  132. Romney said last night he was a proud democrat

    Cite, please.

    After asking nicely at least 8 times, I have to now assume that you are just making that up, as it should be very easy to cite, were it true.

    JD (f93629)

  133. Cain is nearly at a double digit lead over Romney, and Gingrich is impressively situated as well, which I think proves Gingrich is the debate winner so far. Romney’s pizzazz has failed to do a damn thing, nor has his massive funding level, nor have all those endorsements. The voters aren’t buying it.

    There’s plenty of time yet for Newt, Perry, or Cain to unify the non-Romney folks.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  134. Dustin,

    I wouldnt worry about romney his money train just derailed losing to a non candidate and Perry and Gingrich are closing in, Newt likes rick alot and loaths Romney and Cain, Newt also knows he has no chance of winning in the general

    Besides, Romney keeps refering to democrats an saying he is one working solely with them in MA, using old texas democrat talking points against Perry.

    Did anyone check his registration – I hear a court case is slowly being pushed by the Mass Republican Party to see if he is even registered as one.

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  135. Besides, Romney keeps refering to democrats an saying he is one working solely with them in MA, using old texas democrat talking points against Perry.

    Did anyone check his registration – I hear a court case is slowly being pushed by the Mass Republican Party to see if he is even registered as one.

    No offense, but this kind of stuff is not as important as Romney’s major liberal accomplishments, such as appointing many democrat judges and few republican ones.

    And at the end of the day, the one crucial detail about Romney is that he will shamelessly say whatever he thinks will win him some support. Just look at the quote in #93 of this thread. The guy is a fantastic liar, but the voters know that, so Romney is screwed.

    I agree with you that I shouldn’t be too worried about his tremendously lush campaign, and I agree with you that Romney’s talking points are similar to democrat ones.

    Romney reminds me a lot of Mike Bloomberg, which I realize is basically what you’re trying to say.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  136. I have never seen where a guy wins every single debate dominates the debates and still is losing now to unknowns in a poll and is in a statistical dead heat with a former speaker and a governor who is clearly bored with the whole process

    How does Romney keep sliding?

    Oh thats right – guys a democrat

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  137. “You dummy, Haiku, it’s a Will Smith line from Independence Day.”

    retire05 – I like Steve Buscemi in Armageddon:

    “I have got to get me one of these!”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  138. dustin

    I know but I think everyone who see Romney thinks in the back of their mind (F@ckers a Democrat)

    but now the guy is actually saying it – he mentioned Democrats 4 times in the debate last night – republicans – once

    Come on Mitt RUN ON THE SIDE YOU ARE ON – TAKE ON OBAMA RUN FOR THE DEMOCRAT NOMINATION!

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  139. “How does Romney keep sliding?”

    EPWJ – What’s Perry’s excuse? Or should I ask what’s his excuse today?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  140. “Did anyone check his registration”

    EPWJ – Why don’t you tell us about his tax returns again? You love bringing that old story up.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  141. Another Drew,
    There were several bad decisions that led to the meltdown. GLB was one of those.
    I’m not taking the position of the “occupy whatever crowd” nor am I against capitalism when it is viewed in the context of producing goods and services that create jobs and more opportunities.
    I am against a setup where toxic mortgages were traded like a hot potato, creating huge profits but not much else. Sooner or later someone is holding the spud. In the end most of us got stung badly in our IRAs and 401ks due to the combo of things that occurred.
    I’d recommend Susskind’s book to anyone who wants to see just how bad the decision making was in the Obama admin as well as who Geithner was really representing. The irony with Susskind is that he really likes Obama and makes that obvious in the book despite the very stark picture he paints of him.

    vor2 (806546)

  142. Nobody but nutters on the ‘net lay any blame on the meltdown to GLB.
    If anything, GLB allowed a far easier reaction to the crisis, in that it allowed commercial banks to buy up investment banks.
    If you wish to condemn the trading of “toxic mortgages” (MBS’), then you need to look to the financial institutions that pushed them to the fore (Fannie & Freddie), and the politicians that covered their backsides, and staffed their boards.
    There are damn few Republicans, or Conservatives, in those ranks.
    I have no need to read how bad the decision making has been in the O-Admin, I’ve lived through the consequences of it for the last 2-yrs, 8-mos, 23-days – and many of us warned the country what to expect, and were ignored or denigrated for it.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  143. Romney has other problems

    Hhe has yet another court case legal complaint pending about where he lives – guys confused – is it in a closet in his sons vacant house? Or is it in his new mansion in NH?

    Such duplicity isnt well received by the voting public

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  144. What’s Perry’s excuse? Or should I ask what’s his excuse today?

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/12/2011 @ 4:57 pm

    You should read my comments, so you can learn why Perry is falling in support levels. I lay out his mistakes and flaws.

    Then you can see what it’s like to be an honest supporter.

    Or you could just spit out some crap about him being gay, which frankly puts you right down there with EPWJ’s palin nastiness. In fact, you have justified your own arguments as tit for tat with those very comments.

    At least EPWJ was able to drop it. You, on the other hand, explained exactly why it’s so ugly to act like that, and then also explained you intend to act like that.

    The polls show why. Romney can’t get more than low 20s in support. Uh oh.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  145. The reason we have that many people living in poverty is because we have got a president of the United States who is a job- killer. That’s what’s wrong with this country today.

    You have a president who does not understand how to create wealth. He has over-taxed, over-regulated the small-business men and women to the point where they are laying off people.

    Two-and-half million Americans are out there who have lost their jobs. We have got 14 million without work. This president, I will suggest to you, is the biggest deterrent to getting this country back on track, and we have to do everything we can to replace Barack Obama in 2012

    Compare with this pandering nonsense:

    ROMNEY: No one likes to see tax increases, but look, the stimulus bills the president comes out with that are supposedly going to create jobs, we have now seen this played in the theater several times, and what we’re seeing has not worked.

    The American people know that when he went into office and borrowed $800 billion for a massive job stimulus program, then they did not see the jobs. Some of those green jobs we were supposed to get, that is money down the drain.

    The right course for America is not to keep spending money on stimulus bills, but instead to make permanent changes to the tax code. Look, when you give — as the president’s bill does, if you give a temporary change to the payroll tax, and you say, we’re going to extend this for a year or two, employers do not hire people for a year or two.

    They make an investment in a person that goes over a long period of time. And so if you want to get the economy going again, you have to have people who understand how employers think, what it takes to create jobs.

    And what it takes to create jobs is more than just a temporary shift in a tax stimulus, it needs instead fundamental restructuring of our economy to make that sure we are the most attractive place in the world for investment, for innovation, for growth, and for hiring. And we can do that again.

    ROMNEY: No one likes to see tax increases,sooo Romney signals he’s opne to ta increases? but look, the stimulus bills the president comes out with that are supposedly going to create jobs, we have now seen this played in the theater several times, and what we’re seeing has not worked. So Romney’s signalling his cler intent to enact his own stimulus bills?

    The American people know that when he went into office and borrowed $800 billion for a massive job stimulus program, then they did not see the jobs. Some of those green jobs we were supposed to get, that is money down the drain.

    The right course for America is not to keep spending money on stimulus bills, but instead to make permanent changes to the tax code. Look, when you give — as the president’s bill does, if you give a temporary change to the payroll tax, and you say, we’re going to extend this for a year or two, employers do not hire people for a year or two. is anyone awake at this point?

    They make an investment in a person that goes over a long period of time. And so if you want to get the economy going again, you have to have people who understand how employers think, what it takes to create jobs. eh boy

    And what it takes to create jobs is more than just a temporary shift in a tax stimulus, it needs instead fundamental restructuring of our economy to make that sure we are the most attractive place in the world for investment, for innovation, for growth, and for hiring. And we can do that again.Soaring Obamist rhetoric

    Read more: http://thepage.time.com/2011/10/11/complete-transcript-of-hanover-economic-debate/#ixzz1acHRB7B7

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  146. So Romneys open to ta increases and more stimulus – just – smart stimulus

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  147. A manse in NH?
    I thought he was to be condemned for his luxury digs in LaJolla CA?
    Or, are we on the great house hunt from ? … who was it that got all the grief for not knowing how many houses he owned?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  148. xxxxxxx

    those are the missing x’s

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  149. AD
    Yeah thats another problem is it his wifes or his sons or is the condo now belonging to his pac Romney’s registered in Calfornia, NH, MA where is this guy going to decide where to live all these times.

    Gawwd I was tired of McCains 17 houses it was a freakin embarassment in troubled times to have billionaires/almost billionaires telling us about pain and sacrifice duty and such nonsense

    Just vut the spending and the taxes – Mr Cain why sont you tear down this revenue and spending wall

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  150. “At least EPWJ was able to drop it.”

    Dustin – He’s shifted targets. Maybe you hadn’t noticed.

    Grow a pair.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  151. McCain didnt own those houses, he didnt use campaign funds to maintain them and he didnt use them for fundraising purposes

    And he didnt register everywhere he laid down as well

    Also McCain never visited most of them those houses were from his Wife’s very Large Family, they owned them but other people lived in them (aunts, uncles, nieces etc)

    It was an overly cheap shot at McCain

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  152. I thought he was to be condemned for his luxury digs in LaJolla CA?
    Or, are we on the great house hunt from ? … who was it that got all the grief for not knowing how many houses he owned?

    Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks!

    Good for Romney for succeeding and enjoying the rewards.

    I think a La Jolla home sounds quite sweet.

    We shouldn’t hold that kind of thing against Romney. Just his shameless flip flops.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  153. The home in LaJolla is a single-family/detached residence on a bluff overlooking the beach in LaJolla south of the town proper, and has been owned by Mitt Romney for about two decades from the story I saw in the San Diego paper.
    It would be considered a proper, West-Coast, winter home, for somebody from New England.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  154. That sounds sweet, AD. I say that without a hint of sarcasm. There’s no scandal in it, no matter how Romney got it.

    I’ve been in the Northeast in the winter, and I’d rather head for Cali as well.

    For all I know, Romney and I have been out there at the same time. That’s one of my favorite places.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  155. dustin

    There are indications within the poll that Cain’s stay at the top could be short lived. Only 30% of his supporters are solidly committed

    50% are permanently with Perry and the rest are strongly committed

    Other candidates in the poll including Gingrich showed sftness

    So these polls show that Perry has at least 16 everyone else has nothing – they are the flavor of the week

    why do they even conduct a poll sounds like they are begging people to choose – I would love to see a script (calling script)

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  156. Dustin… Romney beats Obama with all voters being considered and he leads Obama 56% to 41% in the independent precincts. You obviously don’t like that. But it’s real and perhaps you should begin the process of coming to terms with that fact.

    Now, it’s possible that things may change… Romney could stumble and your Knight in Shining Armor may be resurrected, but it’s going to take a miracle.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  157. I Think everyone except Huntsmen, Paul and Bachmann are equally tied – they will have to make their cases door to door floor to floor – these polls are all over the place – who can take someone serious if they are not committed to a candidate?

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  158. Col

    No one will beat Obama, but Obama

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  159. “Yeah thats another problem is it his wifes or his sons or is the condo now belonging to his pac Romney’s registered in Calfornia, NH, MA where is this guy going to decide where to live all these times.”

    EPWJ – I’m still waiting for backup on the claims of great Romney family money that you and Dustin have advanced so many times here. Anything yet?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  160. Eric Johnson… you are one funny dude, albeit in a fairly twisted way.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  161. your Knight in Shining Armor may be resurrected, but it’s going to take a miracle.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 5:43 pm

    You don’t understand. Perry I prefer. However, I will do a cartwheel if it’s Newt or Cain instead.

    I do hope Perry campaigns in a way that overcomes his debate failures, but if not, that’s OK. The polls are very reassuring to me, because it shows the GOP is actually powerfully rejecting Romney. Large groups of voters are doing what I am, moving to whoever appears to be the best not-Romney candidate.

    None of these guys really are exactly what I wanted. I’ve already accepted that.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  162. “Yeah thats another problem is it his wifes or his sons or is the condo now belonging to his pac Romney’s registered in Calfornia, NH, MA where is this guy going to decide where to live all these times.”

    Eric… I reckon it won’t be in Tennessee, which is a beautiful state.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  163. The polls are very reassuring to me, because it shows the GOP is actually powerfully rejecting Romney

    He treats the facts as just another speedbump in the Road of Life.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  164. He treats the facts as just another speedbump in the Road of Life.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 5:50 pm

    I don’t get it. We all know Cain is 8 points ahead of Romney, and Cain beats Romney in a two man race by twelve points, almost up to majority levels of support.

    What fact am I mistaken on? Romney has been running for President since 2007, and has spent far more than all other candidates combined, has the most name recognition, and you guys say he won all the debates.

    He’s losing. He lost in 2008 after out spending the other candidates, and it’s even more embarrassing this time, but no surprise, as what did Romney do with himself since losing his last election? Even as a pundit, he was so frequently late to announce his views on anything that it became a punchline.

    You know exactly what the problem is. Voters don’t trust anything Romney says.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  165. Haiku, remember when you boasted Romney led in support amongst Tea Partiers?

    I never saw that poll (you didn’t link) but apparently Cain has double Romney’s support among TEA partiers.

    It is tricky making sure the conservatives don’t split. This post really is on the money.

    I think the early primaries will show which of the non-Romneys really is the most viable. I think it could even be Newt, but probably will be Cain, and my preference of Perry still has a shot but has his work cut out for him. Either way, most of us seem to be flowing to whoever appears to be the not-romney.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  166. Not much me an Eric agree on but he is right about Romney and his Romneymericans.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  167. Col

    I try to have fun, same as you ;)

    I’m worried about Dohbiden, he hasn’t commented in 15 minutes…

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  168. Whoops there he is…

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  169. P.O.E. Purity Of Essence

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  170. I never saw that poll (you didn’t link) but apparently Cain has double Romney’s support among TEA partiers.

    How does Rick Perry fare, Dustin?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  171. Um my comment is above yours.

    I agree with you about Romney.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  172. Just a random observation – WTF does it matter where Romney lives? We have pretty much established epwj justy made that shlt up about Romney claiming to be a Dem.

    JD (352bcf)

  173. – WTF does it matter where Romney lives?

    It doesn’t. There are so many more important matters to discuss.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  174. How does Rick Perry fare, Dustin?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 6:07 pm

    Behind Newt. Did I not say that? I’m pretty sure I said Cain was ahead, and Newt seems to be pulling ahead, and Perry appears to really have his work cut out for him. The not Romney race is in flux, as folks rally behind whoever appears to have the best chance of beating Romney.

    I honestly thought I made that clear.

    Anyway, instead of asking me questions we both know the answer to, why not just make your argument?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  175. I honestly thought I made that clear.

    Anyway, instead of asking me questions we both know the answer to, why not just make your argument?

    No, actually I didn’t see how Perry was tracking, as I didn’t know the answer. That was why I asked.

    Why don’t you try giving the smarmy, smart-assed posture a rest, Dustin. I’ll do better myself.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  176. Comment by Another Drew – Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! — 10/12/2011 @ 5:10 pm

    Sorry Drew didn’t realize you have all the answers with only input you have gleaned. But that is a nutter of a different kind I guess.

    vor2 (806546)

  177. Why don’t you try giving the smarmy, smart-assed posture a rest, Dustin. I’ll do better myself.

    I’m not attempting a posture. If I come across that way to you, then I guess that’s just the way I am.

    You asked me 250 snarky questions in a row, and shouldn’t be so wounded I assumed you were still doing it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  178. I can quit talking about Romney, in fact I’ll stop – I really cant stand democrats who pretend to be Republicans born of fantastic wealth who lie about honest hard working god fearing people and play silly games with our countrys future

    I wont mention him again and you guys are right he isnt worth talking about

    EricPWJohnson (2925ff)

  179. Epwj – do you admit to making that quote up that you attributed to Romney?

    JD (1e48bc)

  180. Tax and spenders like Trump and Romney are not what the GOP needs.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  181. Bush is to blame for the recession by bailing banks out and Obama is cleaning up the economy by continuing them…………….makes sense if your a repub hating partisan.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  182. “I really cant stand democrats who pretend to be Republicans born of fantastic wealth”

    EPWJ – There you go again. Any support at all for that fantastic wealth claim you keep making?

    At least we know Perry was once a Democrat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, West Texas Democrats aren’t really Democrats and Al Gore is a good man, blah, blah, blah.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  183. g.g. I’ve never been a Republican either. Registered independent 28 years running.

    Icy (666709)

  184. At least we know Perry was once a Democrat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, West Texas Democrats aren’t really Democrats and Al Gore is a good man, blah, blah, blah.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Who said Al Gore was a good man?

    Are you perhaps not honestly paraphrasing anyone’s argument?

    Al Gore was seen as relatively conservative in the democrat party in 1988, at least I’m told.

    It’s true that Rick Perry has always been more conservative than you are presently, or many other Illinois Republicans. In Texas, the democrats feel the democrat party left them, not the other way around, and felt the Republicans were anti federalist.

    For a state’s rights guy like Perry, it makes perfect sense he would become a Republican when it was impossible to be a democrat and a federalist at the same time.

    Perry began his career as an appropriator in the Texas legislator, and was known for his ‘pit bull’ fights against the more liberal members.

    Texas was so late turning Republican that Rick Perry was our very first Republican LT Gov.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  185. Daleyrocks never go full romneytard.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  186. “It’s true that Rick Perry has always been more conservative than you are presently, or many other Illinois Republicans.”

    Dustin – Psychic powers along with straw man construction are among the skills you are now claiming?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  187. “It’s true that Rick Perry has always been more conservative than you are presently, or many other Illinois Republicans.”

    Dustin – I think you have more than adequately demonstrated your lack of knowledge of Republicans outside of Texas with your comments about Massachusetts. Why start on another state.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  188. Romney is an amnesty god.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  189. 186. Good man.

    gary gulrud (d88477)


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