Patterico's Pontifications

10/11/2011

GOP Roundtable Open Thread

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 5:01 pm

[Posted by Karl]

Oh, goody! A debate even fewer people can watch, which means the sound bytes clipped from it will weigh more heavily. Allahpundit can link you to the livestream.  Herman Cain will occupy the center square once held by Paul Lynde and Whoopi Goldberg.  Cain says he’s going after Mitt Romney, and I’d bet Rick Perry will also.  My only question is whether Charlie Rose (or anyone else) will point out that Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is both a VAT and a sales tax.  I’m thinkin’ Grover Norquist won’t be the only conservative not digging the Cain plan if they find out about the VAT aspect.

–Karl

567 Responses to “GOP Roundtable Open Thread”

  1. Ding!

    Karl (37b303)

  2. This moderator is pounding the table in an accusatory tone – who is this fossil?

    And this is before anyone is asked a question?

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  3. And they are arguin and interrupting Bachmann

    WTF do Republicans keep showing up in these liberal snake pits

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  4. EPWJ,

    That would be Charlie Rose. Or is it Karen Tumulty? They’re rather interchangeable.

    Karl (37b303)

  5. a Rose by any
    other name is still a BIG
    liberal douchebag

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  6. Tumulty said that Wall St is thriving, when the news is about massive layoffs.

    Karl (37b303)

  7. Karen Tumultys brain is leaking noxious fumes.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  8. We need to get Gingrich somehow back in the House and Cain as a VP.

    Cains 9 9 9 thingy didnt get any reaction

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  9. Tumulty: No one wants the gov’t betwn you and your doctor, BUT…

    Bachmann missed an opportunity to point out that Obama definitely wants to.

    Karl (37b303)

  10. I see a pattern here they are tryng to boost Santorum, gingrich, Bachmann, Paul and Huntsmen and seem to be ignoring the front runners

    People watch the first few minutes of a debate and to showcase people who have no campaign staff or funds is very lefty tricky

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  11. Huntsmen 4 questions – cain 1

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  12. Rose asking about advisors is actually a set-up of Cain, who won’t reveal his.

    Karl (37b303)

  13. Tumulty: No one wants the gov’t betwn you and your doctor, BUT…

    Bachmann missed an opportunity to point out that Obama definitely wants to.

    Comment by Karl

    Slow, hanging curveballs must be hit out of the park.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  14. I will not watch. I’ll wait for the Jon Stewart version.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  15. I was surprised to see Hunstman… I thought he dropped out a month ago. Wonder where he’s been…

    Dana (4eca6e)

  16. Loury is the only advisor Cain will name. And Tumulty blew the follow-up. Well done, mope.

    Karl (37b303)

  17. Cains looking like a fool now

    9 9 9 was a bunch of hooey

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  18. Perry can’t point to his own plan, so he snipes about Romney having a lot of time to develop his.

    No excuses, y’all!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  19. Also, by guaranteeing 999 will pass, Cain has just promised 60 GOP Senators, yes?

    Karl (37b303)

  20. Romney is stuttering

    Romney never started a business – hopes someone calls him out on that

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  21. what is with this bloomberg gal? ask your question and STFU.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  22. Romney wont bailout someone but wants to preserve our financial system
    romney just flipped and flopped said Bush saved the world

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  23. Rose got Romney good, who would you appoint

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  24. Shout out for Zombie Friedman.

    Karl (37b303)

  25. EPWJ,

    Rose got Romney, but they dropped the ball on Cain.

    Karl (37b303)

  26. rose baba wawa?
    thinks he’s on chuck roger’s show
    charlie in a skirt

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  27. Cain now says its a great thing but now in the Tea Party world – walking back comments

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  28. Rose got Romney good, who would you appoint

    Comment by EricPWJohnson

    lol… you gotta be kiddin’!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  29. Newt finally brings up possible EU collapse.

    Maybe he should be moderating.

    Karl (37b303)

  30. Karl

    Cain just lost his money flow

    He’s showing he’s a story and a saying – which Huckabee, Palin, Paul, Obama, Clinton, Carter, JFK rode to success but in this new massive multimedia glare the “soft lighting” of newspapers and the 6 oclock news has been replaced by the spotlight glare of 24/7 punditry

    Cain couldnt name anyone – fini

    Perry stuttered and staggarded and said drill drill drill jobs jobs jobs

    romney is saying as much as he can and so fast i dont know if people are actually absorbing it

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  31. Romney gave a great answer about a hypothetical collapse: says he won’t need to ask Timmy Geithner how the economy works, and he isn’t for bailouts.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  32. Romney will regret that line about knowing how to protect American jobs. DNC (or a rival) will hit him with all the Bain layoffs.

    Rick Perry has been mostly left alone. He probably should be trying to assert himself… but debates aren’t his bag.

    Karl (37b303)

  33. Perry can’t point to his own plan, so he snipes about Romney having a lot of time to develop his.

    No excuses, y’all!

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 5:25 pm

    Balanced budget amendment.

    Repeal Obamacare.

    Anyone who understands the problems this nation faces knows that those two agenda items are a great plan.

    Job growth ended when Obamacare passed. Romney has 160 pages talking about everything but repealing Obamacare.

    To be fair, most of Romney’s agenda is great. It’s a decent plan indeed, and Romney would run this monster government much better than Obama is running it.

    But Perry has a better plan for reforming. I think it’s better to go for a real win in 2012, instead of simply a moderate who promises to keep his hands off reforming entitlements.

    This is Romney’s real plan, when the mask slips.

    Romney’s only gotten specific on what he’ll spend. He wants 100,000 new troops and a minimum of 4 percent of GDP lavished on our already outsized military.

    On the campaign trail, Romney has savaged Obama’s proposed Medicare cuts—the sign “keep your hands off our Medicare” is “absolutely right,” he insists—and he has attacked Perry for questioning the constitutionality of Social Security.

    Better than Obama? I don’t even know. He’s actually pandering to Obama’s left, isn’t he? He’s criticizing any cut to Medicare, including Obama’s cuts, but Romney won’t repeal Obamacare. So we’re left with a promise to ramp up entitlements, in exchange for votes from those who want the goodies at the expense of a towering debt their kids can’t afford.

    Now, Haiku is right that Perry is not specifically promising many spending programs and government fixes for everything, but that doesn’t mean Perry is stupid or is lazy. He really doesn’t intend to lead that way, in my opinion. For the most part, he doesn’t lead Texas with government solutions one after another. His agenda is necessarily shorter, and meant to cut government.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  34. Col

    guy just said he knew everyone and has been running for 6 years and didnt have a clue who to appoint yet he could talk on and on and on about it

    didnt help him – but in All fairness these are Democrats trying to make everyone look bad

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  35. somebody better hold a mirror under Perry’s nose and check his pulse!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  36. Col.,

    I know you like Mitt, but he gave a lot of pro-bailout content on the way to saying he opposed bailouts. He clearly didn’t like having to talk TARP (not that I blame him for that; most of the others have TARP issues).

    Karl (37b303)

  37. Ronnie!!!!!

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  38. Rick Perry has been mostly left alone. He probably should be trying to assert himself… but debates aren’t his bag.

    Comment by Karl — 10/11/2011 @ 5:35 pm

    In my opinion, Perry has no hope of winning this battle. He simply isn’t as good at this as the other guys. He should try to avoid taking damage as he has self inflicted. I think he should then take on Romney in other forums.

    If we’re going to pick the best debater, we should pick Newt or perhaps Romney. Perry should only fight the battles he can win, IMO.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  39. pee wee: Romney says Milton Friedman as new head of the Fed, since we’re talking hypothetical scenarios, lol.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  40. From Twitter:

    RT @Doc_0: Now a brief intermission while Karen Tumulty goes off to poop on a cop car.

    Karl (37b303)

  41. is that bulge at the rear of Perry’s jacket an oxygen bottle?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  42. Perry applause twice Gingrich Twice – once thunderous

    everyone else

    nada

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  43. Andy Levy: “What happened to Rick Perry? is he under a painted-over rock?”

    Karl (37b303)

  44. pee wee: Romney says Milton Friedman as new head of the Fed, since we’re talking hypothetical scenarios, lol.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 5:38 pm

    Very nice, I admit.

    However, isn’t that in 2014?

    In my opinion, getting the right bureaucracy, while important, is not nearly enough.

    We need that balanced budget amendment, and we need Obamacare repealed. That’s Perry’s simple agenda, and I think it would get government out of the way. I would vote for Homer Simpson if I thought he could do those things alone.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  45. is that bulge at the rear of Perry’s jacket an oxygen bottle?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 5:39 pm

    Could be a Ruger. BTW, I fired one of those Ruger’s Perry used on that Coyote. I truly hated it. First gun I’ve ever fired that I actually flat out hated.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  46. How is a tax increase a patriotic duty but a spending cut is draconian

    romney is now asking a committee to run america

    romney finally got applause

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  47. Newt!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  48. old sourpuss Rose sure didn’t like Newt’s response.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  49. gingrich is wowing the audience more and more applause

    gingrich keeps talking like this who’s going to lose support to him – I think everyone

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  50. Memo to Rep. Bachmann: A $2.4 trillion blank check is not actually blank.

    Karl (37b303)

  51. Bachmann had good answer no response from crowd

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  52. Memo to Rep. Bachmann: A $2.4 trillion blank check is not actually blank.

    Comment by Karl — 10/11/2011 @ 5:43 pm

    heh.

    I wish we could just get a Cain v Romney v Perry debate.

    These are three men from very different backgrounds with I think very different styles of leadership, and we need some depth in these debates.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  53. cains up!

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  54. BTW, I fired one of those Ruger’s Perry used on that Coyote.

    Surely Perry can think of a better anti-illegal immigration policy than one Coyote at a time, Dustin!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  55. The Bloomberg folks didn’t figure out the 9% biz tax is a VAT.

    Karl (37b303)

  56. As Romney says, growth is the ultimate answer… and that’s the way a true conservative Republican rolls.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  57. Cain just said he’s raising taxes – who was this firm?

    Bachmann just shot it down

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  58. Romney says growth is the answer. It’s necessary, but not sufficient. Long-run growth rate is 2.5%.

    Karl (37b303)

  59. Col

    romneys an old fashioned 1950′s style democrat – which isnt all that bad except its still a democrat

    And Romney made his fortune on firesales of companies not creating or increasing production but stripping assets selling them off and repackaging the remains as a new and improved product – in other words he wouldnt have a clue

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  60. Congresswoman Bachmann is exceeding my expectations for her (which were very, very low), but it doesn’t matter for this primary.

    Rose & Co.’s contempt for Ron Paul is palpable. They wish he were elsewhere. They clearly see themselves as having to give a turn to the crazy old uncle, whose rantings they then time to the second before interrupting and moving on. Curiously, he seems vaguely flattered by this instead of being offended.

    The only person on stage who would be an interesting companion on a two-person non-campaign road trip is Newt. He’d be fascinating, and at the end of the trip I’d be glad I have my own place to go home to (and he to his).

    Cain isn’t hurting himself. I think he may lock up the Veep nomination before anyone locks up the top spot — that would be novel.

    Santorum has fought, and mostly mastered, a tendency to sound bitter over the fact that he’s not gaining any ground despite solid debate performances from the beginning.

    Is it possible that Gov. Perry doesn’t practice for these things at all? He’s obviously nervous and ill-at-ease; he looks as though someone from Gov. Romney’s camp is administering painful electric shocks to the soles of his feet at random moments.

    Rose & Co. are reflexively liberal but they’re working hard to avoid a circus, and the result is a tone and atmosphere that reflects well on the entire field. (Not what Rose & Co. intended, but I’ll settle for any happy unintended consequence.)

    During the long passage with Romney over 2008 & TARP, I thought Gov. Romney had seized the moment fairly effectively. He has a terribly difficult tightrope to travel on this topic, and at the end of the day, if he were to become the nominee, there are still going to be a whole lot of conservatives who will react to his answers as being double-talk or flip-flops. In this forum, though, and in particular against Gov. Perry, he’s demonstrating a genuinely impressive verbal dexterity; and just as there are some who will be uncomforted by the substance of his answer, there are others (including, in theory, some fair number of independents) who will be comforted.

    So far, I think Gov. Romney’s helped himself again, and that from a strategic posture where he’d be winning merely by not obviously losing.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  61. As Romney says, growth is the ultimate answer… and that’s the way a true conservative Republican rolls.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 5:47 pm

    Yes. There’s only way to see growth, and government can’t do it. It can only get out of the way. Romneycare and Obamacare are massive problems for employers in this country. We can see that employment went away right when Obamacare came into being.

    You want growth? You need to look at Texas’s simpler way of doing things. Keep every agency’s budget in the constant spotlight, cutting if ever you can, and you always balance the budget because it’s illegal not to.

    The growth takes care of itself if government is out of the way.

    That’s how a real conservative rolls, not just talks. That’s why Perry’s got the job growth. It doesn’t sound so elite to say ‘I just want to hold this government back’, but that really is the best way to do it.

    The only problem for Romney is that holding this government back requires discipline and strength against a lot of flack. Well, that’s not the only problem. I’m still miffed about Romney saying we must keep our hands off entitlements.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  62. Romney says growth is the answer. It’s necessary, but not sufficient. Long-run growth rate is 2.5%.

    Comment by Karl

    he also talked about reining in spending and entitlement reform, Karl. Who else on that panel even mentioned growth? Republicans are optimistic… at least where I come from.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  63. Perry

    jobs jobs jobs

    drill drill drill

    remove remove remove

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  64. Is it possible that Gov. Perry doesn’t practice for these things at all? He’s obviously nervous and ill-at-ease; he looks as though someone from Gov. Romney’s camp is administering painful electric shocks to the soles of his feet at random moments.

    It’s not going to change. I have some hope Perry will be a lot better against Obama, but not in these primary debates.

    If only I could match Perry’s spine with Newt’s brain and Romney’s slickness.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  65. “Uncomforted” might better have been “discomforted,” sorry.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  66. Romney is hitting the protectionism because it polls well. Just ask the Dems.

    Karl (37b303)

  67. If only I could match Perry’s spine with Newt’s brain and Romney’s slickness.

    you confuse confidence with something much less effective. No surprise there…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  68. Santorum just ended Cains career – bye bye bye

    Santorums a good guy but he comes across wrong

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  69. he also talked about reining in spending and entitlement reform, Karl.

    Um, this is true in a sense, Haiku.

    “keep your hands off our Medicare” is “absolutely right,”

    That’s not what we want. We want entitlements reformed. Such as both Obamacare and Romneycare being repealed and replaced with something sustainable.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  70. you confuse confidence with something much less effective. No surprise there…

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 5:55 pm

    I don’t know what you mean. I think Perry has been highly effective. For example, he’s cut spending even when it’s very politically difficult, such as a cut to education. Very few state level politicians do it.

    Romney lacks a spine. You do know that, right? Roe v Wade ring a bell?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  71. Perry still hasn’t found his sea legs…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  72. Attacking China didnt work out for the last guy who was that Representative not Tancredo but the guy from California – in the debates all he could spout was “CHINA”

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  73. He’s not going to, as far as these debates go, Haiku. Perry can, at best, tread water here. For better or worse, that’s what he’s capable of.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  74. For example, he’s cut spending even when it’s very politically difficult, such as a cut to education. Very few state level politicians do it.

    Sheesh, Dustin… how many times does daley have to put a spotlight on where and why you are wrong and – I’ll say it – dishonest about that?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  75. dustin

    Perry hates talking and he hates politicians, he’s going to do his own thing

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  76. Col.

    Perry’s answers tonight — such as they are — have been all pro-growth. Romney talks about reining in spending, but he attacks anyone who identifies the main drivers of the debt.

    Karl (37b303)

  77. Sheesh, Dustin… how many times does daley have to put a spotlight on where and why you are wrong and – I’ll say it – dishonest about that?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:00 pm

    How am I dishonest about that?

    Check the Texas comptroller’s website. Texas has had a very large number of agency budget cuts. Perry has signed 12 years worth of balanced budgets, and part of that includes education cuts.

    In what way is this not true?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  78. Perry talking about his China trade experience was not up to snuff.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  79. Col
    Well he’s beng sued today by school districts saying he didnt fund them and cut their money

    Whoopsie on that

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  80. In fact, I have posted the facts that counter what you are saying, Dustin.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  81. Perry is still looking like he’s not ready for the major leagues.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  82. BTW, Cain said he was going after Romney tonight? Has it happened? Did I miss it?

    Karl (37b303)

  83. Proof Texas has indeed cut education spending.

    he rally was touted as a nonpartisan effort, but the feeling in the crowd was distinctly anti-Perry. Chants of “it’s raining, it’s pouring, but Rick Perry’s snoring” and slogans like “Flunk Perry” were plentiful. The publicity surrounding the event provoked a press release from the conservative activist group Americans for Prosperity, which called it a “front for unions” and “raising taxes.”

    “Save Texas Schools is a liberal group posing as a non-partisan, education advocacy organization,” said Texas state director Peggy Venable in a statement, adding, “We can cut education spending without cutting instruction or teachers. But educrats are calling in all of their forces to oppose any education cuts.”

    Perry has had to stand up against a lot of hysteria on this.

    I think Romney would have pandered in Perry’s shoes.

    That’s what Perry’s been doing while Romney has been rehearsing for the debates in his five year long campaign for President.

    The left has gone absolutely nutso about this.

    Of course, now that it’s done, Perry gets no credit for his leadership? If things went wrong, I suspect Romney would say ‘the buck stops on Perry’s desk!’

    Anyway, I do not recall how Daleyrocks proved I was lying about this. Link?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  84. Col

    Perry would be very upset if people thought he was ready he knows he isnt and thats EXACTLY why we need him

    Romney was born ready

    You are confusing the ability to say what people want to hear with the ability to do what needs to be done

    Being President in this next 8 years is like being a punter on a football team – not the star quarterback

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  85. Bachmann goes after Perry. Bad strategy. Not Romney should pile on Romney. But not a lot of geniuses on stage tonight.

    Karl (37b303)

  86. Cain just smacked mitt

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  87. In fact, I have posted the facts that counter what you are saying, Dustin.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:02 pm

    Link?

    I have links proving my point. Here’s another.

    Consider the Texas state budget: This year, Perry cut $4 billion from K12 school districts and another $1.4 billion in discretionary grants, such as those that pay for full-day kindergarten. Across the board, every district must grapple with a 6 percent cut, while state colleges and universities face 9 percent cuts.

    What in the world are you talking about, Haiku?

    Perry has been a champion of lower education costs for quite a while, and in fact one of my favorite causes of his is $10k 4year degrees.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  88. Jeeze, folks, why all the hand wringing over Perry not having an ecomonic plan. Are you so used to Obama’s one hour answers that you can’t accept plain plans?

    Repeal Obamacare that puts a burden on employers and makes them spend money that could be used to hire people.

    Reduce the stupid regulations that strangle companies, like some of the current EPA regulations.

    Make government get out of the way.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  89. Cain goes after Romney, but not well. A question that allows Romney to talk about his plan? Really?

    Karl (37b303)

  90. I’m running a few minutes behind on my DVR playback, but I finally thought I heard Perry deliver a good line on a strong point that he had indeed effectively tied to his own record in Texas — and he ends it this way:

    You free up this country’s entrepreneurs, where they know that they can risk their capital and have a chance to have a return on investment, and all of this conversation [about free trade] we’re having today becomes substantially less impactful.

    “Substantially less impactful.” Sigh.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  91. You are confusing the ability to say what people want to hear with the ability to do what needs to be done

    You have to be able to speak in coherent sentences to make valid points. Perry has yet to show that he can, we’re just supposed to trust that he can?

    No sale.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  92. Dustin, Perry understand that it is not education, per se, that costs so much. It is top heavy administrations. My own school district has 56% administrative and 44% teachers. That needs to end.

    Perry also knows that our universities are paying professors six figures to teach a total of 3-4 hours a week while they rake in even more on stupid research that is never published. That too, needs to end. If you are a professor and you are being paid to teach, teach. If you want, quit teaching and go into research. It is that simple.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  93. Jeeze, folks, why all the hand wringing over Perry not having an ecomonic plan.

    I don’t know ’bout that “ecomomic” stuff, but Perry is a drugstore cowbow. All hat… no verbal ability.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  94. Karl

    Everyone has internal polling not public polling showing Perry has a great chance to win based upon geography, donors, and msg – the attempts to pin him as corrupt – failed – attempts to attack Texas’ success – failed – attempts to say he is not ready and cant beat Obama is all that is left

    When you make that assessment honestly – Perry is a formidablecandidate – this is why I dont advise people to attend debates – they are not debates when a moderator is involved

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  95. Oh no no no, Haiku. You called me a liar. Back that up or apologize. Don’t go down the Daleyrocks road of accusing something and then ignoring requests to back it up.

    An even better example of how Perry has led on spending.

    The deal will avert a threatened veto of education spending by Gov. Rick Perry by addressing changes he sought in university funding, said Ogden, R-Bryan. He and House Appropriations Chairman Warren Chisum, R-Pampa, met Wednesday with the GOP governor.

    Perry has sought incentive funding for higher education to boost graduation rates; urged the drastic reduction of funding for special item initiatives, which aren’t tied to enrollment; and sought a change in the budget format so he can more freely use his line-item veto power.

    Has Haiku shown this didn’t really happen?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  96. ColonelHaiku, just be honest, it wouldn’t matter what Perry said even if he agreed with your philosophy 110%. You would not like him.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  97. a “cowbow” is a very prideful cowboy, lol.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  98. Santorum’s bitterness (now complaining he’s only gotten one question) slips out again. That it’s justified doesn’t keep it from being unattractive.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  99. I like him fine, except when he’s smirking behind that “Sgt. Carter’s done done it agin” look.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  100. paul – ouch!

    Cain – getting angry – Served on the board finally admitted it – people think he’s never been in government

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  101. I don’t know ’bout that “ecomomic” stuff, but Perry is a drugstore cowbow. All hat… no verbal ability.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:13 pm

    ?

    His leadership over many years has been very conservative and unbelievably successful. He’s the first governor of Texas since WWII to see the state budget fall in real per capita dollars. That’s amazing when you compare to the other two large states.

    And his economic record includes all those precious jobs, too.

    And he’s not doing badly in tonight’s debate. He’s simply not doing great, either. He’s just treading water and not doing himself any damage, hoping the voters take a look at his record.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  102. Read back through the threads, Dustin. Texas and Perry have used bookkeeping tricks. I said you’ve been dishonest about a few things and I stand by my assessment.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  103. #100, I rest my case.

    I am sure your candidate is Mr. Brillcream.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  104. Perry has this wrapped up. Cain is finis. Good Allah.

    JD (318f81)

  105. So Romney is playing the “heartless” card? So Perry-esque.

    Karl (37b303)

  106. romney just said he’s a democrat

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  107. Romney lobs a softball to Bachmann, because he really wants to avoid Cain and Perry.

    Karl (37b303)

  108. Romney nailed Cain with the “simple approach” rebuttal and now he’s just blocked Perry’s feeble thrust and kept his sense of humor doing it. He is cruising compared to the others.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  109. romney just gave bachmann a softball question

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  110. I like him fine, except when he’s smirking behind that “Sgt. Carter’s done done it agin” look.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:15 pm

    That’s kinda catty, but whatever.

    Are you going to continue ignoring me? You called me dishonest, saying you had proof. I am asking you to back that up or admit you were mistaken.

    Treat others as you’d like to be treated, Haiku. I’ve shown Perry’s leadership specifically on the issue you claimed he didn’t lead on, with the results you claimed didn’t happen. Or at least that’s my interpretation of you claiming I wasn’t honest to site that credential.

    Read back through the threads, Dustin. Texas and Perry have used bookkeeping tricks. I said you’ve been dishonest about a few things and I stand by my assessment.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:17 pm

    What in the hell are you talking about? What book-keeping trick? The budget cuts are very, very real. It has affected my pocketbook personally, in fact.

    I said Perry cut education spending and shows a ton of spine in facing the hysteria. I have posted links in this thread proving it only because you claimed I was dishonest.

    Now you backtrack to saying I’m just vaguely dishonest and I must search for the proof you can’t link now?

    Why not?

    Just admit it. You won’t give Perry a fair shake because you are a Romney supporter. You won’t give me a fair shake because I’m a Romney critic.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  111. Perry has this wrapped up

    What are you doing? playing that drinking game thing… every time Perry stumbles you throw back a shot?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  112. romney just said he’s a democrat

    Link please?

    JD (318f81)

  113. Dustin, you cast everything Perry does with the best spin possible, while you do the opposite where Romney’s governance is concerned. That’s fine, just don’t try to convince me otherwise.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  114. Col – I was mocking someone else, however, your ability to type while deep throating the most liberal Team R candidate is impressive.

    JD (318f81)

  115. careful who you lay down with, JD…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  116. Texas and Perry have used bookkeeping tricks.

    Anyway, everyone can see for themselves that Texas is successful. Attempts to attack Texas’s success are pathetic, and amount to an attack on conservatism itself, as Texas is the best argument for a balanced budget and low taxes.

    I made a very specific claim, was called dishonest, proved that claim with several links, and now Haiku says he won’t prove I’m dishonest, but he could if he wanted to?

    But the very thing Haiku claimed was dishonest was plainly completely honest. In fact, even the things I can’t prove absolutely are obviously good faith claims.

    Is this really the only way to defend Romney, Haiku? Take honest folks and attack them?

    Romney being the nominee would tear this party apart.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  117. Colonel, you cast everything Romney does with the best spin possible, while you do the opposite where Perryy’s governance is concerned. That’s fine, just don’t try to convince me otherwise.

    JD (318f81)

  118. You forgot to wear that silly helmet and fell off your girl’s bike again… am I right, JD?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  119. Who am I laying down with, Coonel?

    JD (318f81)

  120. Dustin, you cast everything Perry does with the best spin possible, while you do the opposite where Romney’s governance is concerned. That’s fine, just don’t try to convince me otherwise.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku —

    I have criticized Perry a lot.

    I prefer him to the others, but anyone saying I simply spin everything for Perry must be ignoring what I’m saying.

    I don’t spin Romney’s record. I just cite it. But if you want to disagree that’s fine.

    Do you have proof I’m dishonest? You said you did and you keep refusing to show me any. Specifically, you said in comment 75 that you and daley can prove I am lying about Texas cuts to education.

    That is not true. I am not lying and have proven it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  121. Cain – new Taxes

    Romney – court battle with China

    Newt – have to get this guy back in the house

    Perry – boring boooring – just jobs jobs jobs – no one wants that

    Bachmann – good answers

    Santorum – good attacks but didnt offer any reason why we should vote for him

    paul – quiet tonight

    huntsman – good answers but kinda sidelined after a flurry of early questions

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  122. I agree with what daley has responded with in his posts that counter your glowing praise of Perry, Dustin.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  123. You have to admit, Perry is doing better this time than the last debate in particular. He’s not setting the world on fire, but he’s also not doing himself any damage.

    I’ll take what I can get.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  124. That is not true. I am not lying and have proven it.

    Comment by Dustin

    And both Daley and I have posted (with links) to information that refutes what you contend, Dustin.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  125. I agree with what daley has responded with in his posts that counter your glowing praise of Perry, Dustin.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku —

    You said you could prove, in comment 75, that I was lying about Texas cuts to education, which I specifically cited because you disputed my claim Perry has shown spine when leading.

    I have asked you repeated to show me how, while also providing links showing the amazing hostility to Perry’s cuts, and specifically how Perry led the cuts.

    You then said these were bookkeepers tricks, which is insane given the $10 billion cut level and the fact Texas managed to balance a tough budget.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  126. Perry tried to attack using the Romneycare angle and he barely scratched his intended victim.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  127. Perry brought up tort reform good, favorable climate for insurance rates good

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  128. And both Daley and I have posted (with links) to information that refutes what you contend, Dustin.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:28 pm

    No you haven’t.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  129. I’m watching the debate, Dustin. I don’t have time to defend yoah honuh, suh.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  130. Before this thread disintegrates into a repeat (an apparently inevitable) slamfest of Romney supporters v. Perry supporters, I can’t help but think it’s to the advantage of Cain & Perry & Romney that this debate was so limited in its viewership. No one has done themselves any favors.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  131. Although Perry is kinda sedate tonight, keep in mind that if he wasn’t, everyone would be soiling themselves over how cocky and full of TX swagger he is.

    Karl (37b303)

  132. Cain is in somekind of minefield

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  133. re; post #129… that’s why you need to revisit several threads. Just because you don’t accept hard data, doesn’t mean it’s not factual.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  134. ColonelHaiku is to Romney what Monica was to Bill.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  135. Whoever decided on debates over a year before the election, and months before the first primary should be tarred and feathered.

    JD (318f81)

  136. Although Perry is kinda sedate tonight, keep in mind that if he wasn’t, everyone would be soiling themselves over how cocky and full of TX swagger he is.

    Instead of just slow-witted and not particularly fast on his feet? Good one.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  137. Dana

    I agree – like I said in the very first comments – why do they subject themselves to a Obama questioning pane

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  138. re: post #136… time won’t heal what ails him.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  139. I would love to put Romney on a farm with a limited credit card to Tractor Supply and tell him to make a go of that farm in the middle of a draught.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  140. okay thats a record 5 wow!

    [FIFY -K]

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  141. Good God, Johnson! Shake your head, your eyes are stuck!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  142. Colonel Haiku, are you going to back up comment 75 or not?

    Just repeatedly announcing you have already done it is not impressing anyone.

    In what way did Texas not really cut education spending?

    It’s pathetic anyway, as we all know Texas’s economy is comparably very good compared to the rest of the country, and particularly Mitt’s record, specifically on employment or spending.

    Governor Romney clearly loosened the purse strings for FY 2006 and in his proposed budget for FY2007. With surpluses flowing into the state coffers, the Romney administration sought to undo some of the success it had achieved during the initial lean years. The result was a budget proposal for 2007 that was a whopping 10.12% larger than the preceding fiscal year.

    If there’s some reason my source is not correct, feel free to explain that to me. But I’m quoting all these sources on Romney and Perry’s record in complete good faith.

    When Haiku insists I’m lying about something I can specifically prove, and then refuses to prove me wrong, is he projecting?

    I’m watching the debate, Dustin. I don’t have time to defend yoah honuh, suh.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:31 pm

    Is that some kind of slur to southerners?

    Anyway, you had plenty of time to attack my honesty. But now you’re refusing to back that up. You look dishonest and slimy.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  143. retire05

    Romneys looking okay tonight – but why doesnt the polls move for him – lets be realistic – he’s kicked butt 4 or 5 times now – and his numbers go down

    got to be a reason

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  144. :roll: You fail to disappoint Haiku and that is no t a good thing

    DohBiden (d54602)

  145. Instead of just slow-witted and not particularly fast on his feet? Good one.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:33 pm

    Perry’s ‘you don’t have a heart’ type comments are incredibly annoying and damage his campaign effort. If the best he can do is to be very mild and calm, presenting his case free of fireworks, that is a substantial improvement. You have to admit, Perry is much better tonight.

    As good as Romney? Nope.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  146. I would love to put Romney on a farm with a limited credit card to Tractor Supply and tell him to make a go of that farm in the middle of a draught.

    a draught of what… root beer?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  147. You guys have convinced me that both Romney and Perry should drop out immediately.

    JD (318f81)

  148. Romney’s numbers haven’t gone down really… but they are pretty stagnant.

    Romney had a good answer about Dodd-Frank.

    Still not sure why he wants to start a trade war…. Bueller?

    Karl (37b303)

  149. My IQ dropped out immediately when you said that or were you joking?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  150. You have to admit, Perry is much better tonight.

    He didn’t have anywhere to go but up, Dustin.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  151. In fact, every time Haiku and Daley have complained I’m dishonest, it’s this exact deal. Either what I’m saying is provable and even obvious, or it’s a good faith opinion, or in one sole case, I was mistaken (I said Romney increased the gun tax 400%, but he had actually increased it from $25 to $100).

    They keep patting eachother on the back and refusing to engage in a good faith argument.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  152. BTW, want to emphasize that Romney’s supposedly boffo answer on RomneyCare was a big slice of “for the children.” The subtext was the “conservatives are heartless” notion that killed Perry. We got us a double-standard going.

    Karl (37b303)

  153. Tell it like it is, Newt!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  154. He didn’t have anywhere to go but up, Dustin.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:39 pm

    I don’t know if he was that bad, but he really was pretty weak, and I think he’s doing fine tonight. No better than fine, but that’s OK. I’m voting for president.

    Are you ever going to admit you were mistaken in comment 75? I proved my point. You know I wasn’t being dishonest.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  155. #144, Eric, it’s because Romney’s record is all out there on the internet for people to see. And Romneycare is a millstone around his neck. The latest reportes today about his consultants for Romneycare also working on Obamacare is going to leave a hickey for those paying attention.

    And right now, no one seems to be reporting on Solamere. But it’s coming.

    One other thing; Romney has the same presence about him that John Kerry had, elitist, Boston brahmain. I wouldn’t buy a used car from either one of them.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  156. c’mon, Dustin. May the best man win! Long ways to go yet, Keep your chin up and understand that my sense of humor is… at times… an acquired taste, at best.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  157. #144, Eric, it’s because Romney’s record is all out there on the internet for people to see. And Romneycare is a millstone around his neck. The latest reportes today about his consultants for Romneycare also working on Obamacare is going to leave a hickey for those paying attention.

    Yep… good boy… the Obama administration says “jump!”, you ask “how high?!?!”

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  158. retire, you’d best go back to runnin’ the Best Little ol’ Whorehouse in Texas, ya’hear.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  159. Johnson just crashed the hall!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  160. c’mon, Dustin. May the best man win! Long ways to go yet, Keep your chin up and understand that my sense of humor is… at times… an acquired taste, at best.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:43 pm

    I think you’re funny and have given you plenty of slack in your Perry bashing. I don’t mind.

    But I don’t appreciate your comment 75 calling me dishonest about something I proved I was correct about. You weren’t joking about that.

    This is the kind of politics that tears the party apart. I prefer Perry and Cain and Newt to Romney, in that order, and in good faith. I am not lying about Romney. I really believe that stuff, and if I’m wrong, by all means show me, as it would actually change my mind.

    I’m not just picking Romney to lie about. I really think he’s too liberal.

    If you want to have a fierce debate, that’s fine, but if you’re going to question my honesty I am going to get pissed off. And you know that.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  161. over 1.5 hours into the debate and Perry finally gets around to talking about what he’d do to create jobs…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  162. I don’t think you did, Dustin and tomorrow, I will take the time to show you where and when you were wrong.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  163. Oh, Huntsman… you don’t give a thumbs-up to a rise in the number of suicides or the level of drug abuse.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  164. Col.

    Perry mentioned several times that he’d create jobs by deregulation, particularly in the energy industry.

    Karl (37b303)

  165. did he now…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  166. CHARLIE ROSE BELIEVES IN TABLES!

    Karl (37b303)

  167. big ones, too!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  168. I don’t think you did, Dustin and tomorrow, I will take the time to show you where and when you were wrong.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:49 pm

    Comment 75 was pretty specific. My links prove there is absolutely no way you’re right. Texas made a substantial cut to education, there was a hellstorm about it, and Perry led. Those are well documented facts.

    I’m sure at some point I’ve been wrong about something, but if you’re not willing to admit you were mistaken, I think you’re probably going to engage in some convoluted attempt to blur the facts.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  169. the liberal prick.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  170. #160, ColonelHaiku, why would you suggest that? Are you looking for a job?

    I hear they are hiring on 11th Street in Austin.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  171. Karl

    they’ve dropped 5 or 7 to 22 now

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  172. You would know that, wouldn’t ya, pops.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  173. Perry needs his boots shined, retired guy. get to it!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  174. Easy with the agro there.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  175. Romney needs his turd polished get to it Colonel.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  176. Romney leaves unscathed and as the frontrunner… on to the next debate!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  177. 154.BTW, want to emphasize that Romney’s supposedly boffo answer on RomneyCare was a big slice of “for the children.” The subtext was the “conservatives are heartless” notion that killed Perry. We got us a double-standard going.

    Comment by Karl — 10/11/2011 @ 6:40 pm

    Thats when Romney called himself a democrat

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  178. Col.

    Yes. See comment 64. Pretty sure he mentioned it in his first answer also.

    Karl (37b303)

  179. Only in your dreams Colonel.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  180. biden… how do you keep a nitwit in a state of suspense?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  181. I’ll have to read some other coverage, Karl. I didn’t notice it and I was fairly attuned to Perry. For a while there, I thought he’d gone comatose like those old folks in the Kids in the Hall movie, “Brain Candy”.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  182. :roll: Calling me a nitwit eh?

    Well that is rich.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  183. I think this one was a colossal waste of everyone’s time – Cain Obviously wanted to maintain his exposure but seems weak on his – oh I was actually in Govt but back when it was a good thing –

    That may take some of the luster off

    Perry and Huntsmen are turning this into a ground game – huntsmen, paul are gaining in NH – Perry is point blank attacking Romney and committing to his success in Texas – it will be a test of how well he shakes hands and talks to people – something that can only be measured on Ballot day he allways way underpolls

    yet he wins – go figure

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  184. Really, if Romney fan’s defense is some dizzying and weird comparison, based largely on denying credit to conservatives for conservative results while denying Romney’s blame for liberal things, and ultimately winding up explaining why Romney of all people is actually quite conservative if you look at things through this maze of lenses, is it at all sane to conclude that those like me who didn’t see things that way are dishonest?

    If I have a different take, is that lying, or just a different take?

    That’s what’s annoying about this tiff with Daley and Haiku. They know I’m just calling the facts as plain as they sit. Perry is obviously very conservative unless you take a very weird look at him, and Romney is obviously very liberal, at least in practice. This is a good faith and very common view.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  185. EPWJ

    The RCP average never had Romney that high:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

    …and only one or two polls had him higher than 25-26 throughout.

    Karl (37b303)

  186. Thats when Romney called himself a democrat

    Cite, please?

    JD (318f81)

  187. 154.BTW, want to emphasize that Romney’s supposedly boffo answer on RomneyCare was a big slice of “for the children.” The subtext was the “conservatives are heartless” notion that killed Perry. We got us a double-standard going.

    Presumably, they were not the children of illegal immigrants.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  188. Charles Johnson has a post up at LittleGreenmorons mocking Christians.

    That talking ulcer needs to get dropkicked.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  189. Perry is obviously very conservative unless you take a very weird look at him, and Romney is obviously very liberal, at least in practice

    That must explain why Romney is polling better with the tea partiers than Perry is.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  190. Dude Romney won’t win the nominee you have a higher chance of the twits at LGF having an epiphany.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  191. Romney’s response: it’s for the children.

    Nancy Pelosi is sooooo proud.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  192. Glad to see Perry may be strating to realize he needs to do what he should have done several weeks ago, Karl.

    BTW… you aren’t laboring under the assumption that the folks at the liberal Boston Globe are Romney fans, are you?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  193. Yes everything Romney does is for the children.

    You’ve been a good Mitt Romney.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  194. make that starting.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  195. Col

    Romney may well be the front runner – Cain shoed his plan isnt a plan and his tenure in the Fed – well is a tenure in the Fed

    Perry will have to make the case like Romney one state at a time one city at a time.

    We will see the fundraising numbers coming up – they gave their best shots at Perry tonight – he was boring but not making any mistakes and echoing a msg of jobs, energy, jobs, tort reform, jobs, states rights, jobs

    Romney said everything it sounds good to me but I know he’s just talking and thats what the American people when it come’s down to it wit the country in peril – who you gonna pick? I guy who almost every state rejected 3 years ago to McCain, Huckabee, and Fred?

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  196. A guy not I guy!

    Whohoo!!!

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  197. re: post 185… That’s not what I stated, biden. You jumped to a conclusion based on your poor self-image.

    Tell colonel about yo mama…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  198. That must explain why Romney is polling better with the tea partiers than Perry is.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 7:03 pm

    I’m surprised to hear that.

    But then, Perry’s goofed up a few times already and it’s cost him a lot of support.

    The real surprise there is that Romney would have support among fiscal conservatives to the point where he leads among tea partiers.

    I do recall Romney winning among tea partiers in Michigan, and attributed some of that to Romney’s ties to labor unions in the auto industry.

    But nationally?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  199. BTW… you aren’t laboring under the assumption that the folks at the liberal Boston Globe are Romney fans, are you?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 7:08 pm

    I would bet a lot that they strongly prefer Romney to either Cain or Perry.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  200. “The most telling moment in tonight’s Republican presidential debate came at the start of the second hour when the candidates were given the opportunity to ask questions of their opponents. The result was that the majority of the contenders all posed their query to Mitt Romney. This was merely the confirmation of what we already had discovered by that point in the evening. Romney is the clear frontrunner with no one else even close.

    By that point we had also learned that this was not going to be the night when Rick Perry began his comeback. Perry followed up his three previous poor debate performances with yet another weak showing. He looked uncomfortable and rambled at times even when served up a softball that he could have used to attack Romney. Perry may stay in the race but tonight he again proved himself unequal to the task of running for president.”

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/10/11/romney-debate-winner-frontrunner/

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  201. Why are you riding Romney’s coattails?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  202. Karl

    He’s dropped ten in ten weeks Romney was in the 30′s during the summer and was campaigning vigorously full stop to try and “Hillary” before one of the killer “P”‘s got in or got traction (Pawlentry, Palin or Perry)

    Its interesting that the pundits dont show romneys dropped they just talk about a handful of early polls on Perry as proof he isnt a candidate when you can apply the same stabdard to Romney spending what 20 million and still dropping?

    thats got to be disturbing

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  203. Romney could announce he wants to take over the world and you tools would support him.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  204. I would bet a lot that they strongly prefer Romney to either Cain or Perry.

    Comment by Dustin

    Those folks prefer whoever they think the Democrat has the best chance to beat.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  205. well more than ten weeks but it sounded good ;)

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  206. Col.,

    No, the Globe ain’t Mitt’s friend. But they ain’t Perry’s, either.

    BTW, have you looked at that CBS poll? Do you really think 40% of all Americans are watching the debates? Because that’s what the CBS poll claims. The Nielsen ratings say something different.

    Karl (37b303)

  207. Let’s remember whose side we’re on and what our objective is, irregardless of who the nominee ends up being.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  208. BTW, have you looked at that CBS poll? Do you really think 40% of all Americans are watching the debates? Because that’s what the CBS poll claims. The Nielsen ratings say something different.

    Comment by Karl

    Don’t know, Karl. Didn’t look at their sampling methodology… did you?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  209. Yes.

    Since Cain might go after Romney can we stop saying he is Romney’s puppet?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  210. Col

    Romney not on our side, he’s on Obama’s he luvs him some democrats and called himself one tonight

    that has to be disturbing when he parroted all those democrat talking points at perry

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  211. EPWJ,

    Srsly, look at that RCP link. Mitt has not dropped ten points in 10 weeks. Perry has dropped a lot in the past month. Romney is in what stockbrokers would call a trading range — never much below 20, never much above 25. That’s why he wants to keep Cain in the mix. He thinks he needs to win a war of attrition w/ Perry and his $15-17 million bucks.

    Karl (37b303)

  212. No, the Globe ain’t Mitt’s friend. But they ain’t Perry’s, either.

    Karl… again… the Globe will prefer whoever they believe has the best chance of losing to Obama.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  213. If Romney wins the republican nomination, tea party will fracture off and run a third party candidate.

    notvotingforromneyatall (ee1de0)

  214. Col.,

    CBS didn’t disclose much about their sampling methodology. But if their sample says 40% of them watched the debates when that is clearly untrue, it tells you a lot of them are telling CBS what they think CBS wants to hear.

    Karl (37b303)

  215. Romney not on our side, he’s on Obama’s he luvs him some democrats and called himself one tonight

    If you really believe that, you should vote for someone else.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  216. luvs him some democrats and called himself one tonight

    Cite, please.

    JD (318f81)

  217. Btw Britain may face a mini-ice age in 5 years.

    H/T-Yid with the Lid

    DohBiden (d54602)

  218. I will not believe that the Tea Party supports Romney. We have had it with big tax/spenders.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  219. Those folks prefer whoever they think the Democrat has the best chance to beat.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 7:15 pm

    Romney will be unable to hold the tent together. Just look how hard you have to twist to make your arguments. You still haven’t withdrawn your claim in comment 75 that I was lying about Perry cutting education spending substantially.

    I’ve seen this all over the place. Romney’s fans are always on red alert for any dissenting views, and they respond to it without facts. Just personal attacks, such as you gave me without being able to back any of it up.

    Do you see me arguing like that? No. You see links to the records of these two candidates.

    Let’s remember whose side we’re on and what our objective is, irregardless of who the nominee ends up being.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 7:16 pm

    If Romney is to the left of Obama on spending then many conservatives won’t vote for him. I think he was just pandering when he promised more entitlement spending than Obama, but it remains to be seen.

    On the campaign trail, Romney has savaged Obama’s proposed Medicare cuts—the sign “keep your hands off our Medicare” is “absolutely right,” he insists

    As linked in comment 33. I am very often a party line voter for the GOP, and I’m going to have a much harder time supporting Romney than I had supporting Mccain in 2008.

    I’ll say now I think Romney would be a better administrator than Obama, but if he’s really sincere about keeping Obamacare AND increasing Medicare spending from Obama’s policy, I can’t support him. That is shamelesss pandering with the money of the next generation.

    We need to cut spending and especially reform entitlements.

    Claiming I’m dishonest every time I have the better argument is not persuasive.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  220. Karl… again… the Globe will prefer whoever they believe has the best chance of losing to Obama.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 7:19 pm

    That’s Romney of the three front runners.

    If you can’t see that, you weren’t paying attention in 2010 and you aren’t paying attention to this thread full of pragmatic conservatives who have a very hard time with Romney as the nominee.

    It’s the wrong time to expect the GOP to nominate the most liberal nominee in our lifetimes.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  221. you should vote for someone else.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku —

    My mistake. You’re making my point for me. Yes, a lot of people who think Romney is too liberal will naturally be unable to support him.

    It depends on what you think the big issue of the day is. I think, no matter what these guys say about discretionary spending and taxes, that taxes must go stratospheric and the currency must collapse unless we reform entitlements.

    It’s just math. We can’t afford the entitlements Romney is promising to increase from even Obama’s level. That’s a very clever way to win a general against Obama. Romney is the more competent and very moderate guy who bashes Obama for cutting medicare and promises to undo that without repealing Obamacare.

    But it won’t work. The GOP fractured in 1992. That has long been Obama’s only hope for reelection.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  222. Romney;

    I was for abortion before I was against it. I was for Romneycare before I was against Obamacare. (SHTF when it was revealed today that Romney’s advisors met with Obama’s advisers and Obammy himself to tailor Obammycare after Romneycare.) Tea Partiers becoming incensed and warming the tar up while plucking chickens for feathers.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  223. I genuinely like Cain.But once people get a whiff of what VAT is, he will be done.

    Romney is still trying to put us in a slow statist car that we cannot afford.

    Rick Santorum continues to be the least happy person in the world.

    Michelle Bachmann is like a runnerup on “Wheel of Fortune”. Take your $2000 and go home already.

    Almost none of them want to end these insane pointless and expensive wars. Except Ron Paul. Yes, he is the crazy uncle. He’s bad on TV. And for the last 25 years he has been right more than anyone. But I wish the first name was Rand instead of ROn for a whole host of reasons.

    And any of them are better than Obama. But the slow statism and crony capitalism for the “right people” under Romney or Perry os still statism.

    Bugg (ea1809)

  224. KArl I see what you are saying but Romney had several polls during the summer in the 30′s

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  225. My mistake. You’re making my point for me.

    No… one of your favorite tactics, Dustin, but I was responding to Eric Johnson and all who think as he does. If you really believe the type of swill that Eric wrote about Romney then you should vote for someone else… be the useful idiots you were born to be.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  226. I didnt like the candidates making fun of Pizza that was a personal insult to cain and his accomplishments – he didnt deserve that

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  227. and, damn it! I was laughing so hard at the retired guy’s buffoonery, I twisted my knee.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  228. i did notice that the paper who slandered Perry the most with Racism didnt dare bring it up tonight – thats where Cain dodged a bullet

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  229. Dustin, I’ll grant you that Gov. Perry was better in the second half of this debate than in the first half, and somewhat better overall than he’s been in previous debates. I don’t think he made up any significant ground, though.

    He’s got money and organization sufficient to stay in the race for many, many more weeks even if he doesn’t improve in the public opinion polling. But every night like tonight is an irretrievable missed opportunity for him, and unless he really catches fire or Romney commits a serious unforced error very soon, it’s hard to project a plausible path for him to become the nominee.

    I have not given up on his candidacy, and we’re quite a ways from even the first meaningful vote being cast or the first delegate selected. But Gov. Perry hasn’t begun running a presidential-level campaign yet. His candidacy begins to resemble John Connally’s in 1980 or Phil Graham’s in 1996.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  230. We can’t afford the entitlements Romney is promising to increase from even Obama’s level. That’s a very clever way to win a general against Obama. Romney is the more competent and very moderate guy who bashes Obama for cutting medicare and promises to undo that without repealing Obamacare.

    Links that prove that “stuff”, please.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  231. His candidacy begins to resemble John Connally’s in 1980 or Phil Graham’s in 1996.

    Or… dare I say it… Tiny Tim’s in ’68.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  232. No… one of your favorite tactics, Dustin, but I was responding to Eric Johnson and all who think as he does. If you really believe the type of swill that Eric wrote about Romney then you should vote for someone else… be the useful idiots you were born to be.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 7:39 pm

    My tactic is simply to note that many people do indeed feel that Romney is liberal, and in large part, not all that different from democrats on major issues.

    And you’re saying those people, naturally, shouldn’t support Romney. And I think many of them won’t in the general election, just as they didn’t support Bush 41 in 1992 because the party badly fractured for a proto Tea Party candidate.

    There’s nothing dishonest about my point. You keep acting like criticizing Romney must be dishonest, even when you refuse to back that up.

    You’ve had 150 comments to back up your claim in comment 75 that you can prove I am dishonest about the Perry education cut. You know damn well you are mistaken, and it says so much about you that you lack the personal honor to admit it and apologize, which is exactly what I’d do if I had made that mistake.

    Nobody’s perfect, but some don’t realize it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  233. It’s the wrong time to expect the GOP to nominate the most liberal nominee in our lifetimes.

    You aren’t paying attention.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  234. Romney is like flesh-eating disease.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  235. Claiming I’m dishonest every time I have the better argument is not persuasive.

    Dustin…e… you post your contention and your opinion but seldom have I seen you post any links that support what you write.

    But I understand… I’m just supposed to trust you cuz that’s the way you do it in Texas.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  236. biden… you are like Andrew Sullivan’s worst anal lesion.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  237. And you are an romneybot who likes to stereotype texans you anal fissure.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  238. I don’t think he made up any significant ground, though.

    Beldar, it’s hard for me to honestly gauge it. I am way out of step with the party on this. I can’t even comprehend Romney being far from Huntsman in the polls.

    I assume you’re probably right. But at least Perry didn’t do himself damage. He has to win somewhere other than these debates.

    Links that prove that “stuff”, please.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    I said I linked it in comment 33. You ignored that link, but we both know you read it and searched for some way to say I’m lying, and instead opted to ignore it because I’m right.

    Here’s the link again.

    In it, Romney criticizes Obama’s entitlement spending as cutting too much, and promises to keep his hands off any medicare cuts. This is simply what he said.

    keep your hands off our Medicare” is “absolutely right,”

    Obviously much of the rest of my comment is my opinion. I think Romney is merely holding back these comments as much as he can get away with now, and if he’s nominated, he will stop holding back so much, asserting the worst panders on entitlements. This isn’t unreasonable given his warnings that Perry is going to take folks’ social security or Obama is cutting Medicare too much.

    But that’s just a guess. If that is Romney’s gameplan, it’s clever triangulation I admit, but I don’t see how the tent holds together.

    Hey, see how you asked for a link and I provided one? Why don’t you admit you can’t do the same to back up your claim in comment 75?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  239. Medicare needs reforming but I don’t expect Romneys anal fissure to get that.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  240. You’ve had 150 comments to back up your claim in comment 75 that you can prove I am dishonest about the Perry education cut. You know damn well you are mistaken, and it says so much about you that you lack the personal honor to admit it and apologize, which is exactly what I’d do if I had made that mistake.

    Nobody’s perfect, but some don’t realize it.

    Comment by Dustin

    Dustin, if what you say is true it will still be true tomorrow. I gave you my schedule. Quit stomping your feet… it’s unbecoming and more than a little silly.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  241. Dustin…e… you post your contention and your opinion but seldom have I seen you post any links that support what you write.

    It’s the blue stuff with the line under it.

    I doubt anyone has posted more links on this blog than I have. Seriously.

    I also doubt anyone has posted more links than I have in this single flipping thread.

    You are really unable to play fair with a Romney critic, huh? How many links have you posted up to this point in this thread? How many have I posted?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  242. How dare
    Perry not giv emoney to public schools.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  243. I held my nose and voted for McCain in ’08, well I actually voted for Sarah. I will not do it this time for Romney, NO MATTER WHO THE VP CANDIDATE IS.

    Tired of holding my nose and voting for RINO’s or Dem-lite. No more, no how, no effing way. Either put up a true conservative or they can kiss my-ass goodbye. Many of us Tea Partyers feel this way, if not most of us.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  244. How dare Perry not give money to public schools*

    DohBiden (d54602)

  245. I said I linked it in comment 33. You ignored that link, but we both know you read it and searched for some way to say I’m lying, and instead opted to ignore it because I’m right.

    Lol… actually, it’s the first time I saw it. I was having too much fun. Shame on me!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  246. Beldar

    Who has been running presidential Level candidate

    Graham quit because he didnt want the job

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  247. Quit stomping your feet… it’s unbecoming and more than a little silly.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 7:50 pm

    You called me a liar and said you could back it up. why would you do that tomorrow? You’ve spent more time explaining why you can’t do it right now than it would take to just do it already.

    But I already posted four links showing that Texas did cut education spending, Perry did lead the way on that with hard stances, and there was tremendous flack for doing so.

    You can’t back up your statement in 75 about the specific matter you claimed I lied on.

    All you can do is find some way to suggest some opinion of mine is not your opinion, and almost certainly on a different matter than the specific one you claimed I was dishonest about in comment 75.

    I do not appreciate people calling me a liar. If you really think it’s unbecoming for someone to ask for proof of such a claim, I don’t know what to tell you.

    I think you are simply a hack.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  248. wow… a libertarian link? I’ll take a detailed look tomorrow and provide the links to info on Perry that paints a different picture of Perry’s record.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  249. Look at you losing your cool. I see now why Daley lost his patience with you.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  250. Lol… actually, it’s the first time I saw it. I was having too much fun. Shame on me!

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 7:51 pm

    I’ll take you at your word. More than you’re willing to give me, but I’m interested in you supporting Perry if it’s possible to convince you.

    It’s comments like that which convince me that Romney is not serious about cutting entitlements. You can hardly assert this is unfair of me. Maybe you disagree, and I hope you can explain why, but you know this is a good faith interpretation.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  251. Go ahead, give Romney the nomination, and you will insure another 4 years of Obammy when conservatives sit out the election again. Kiss the Senate and House goodbye too.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  252. candidate campaign – sorry

    beldar, Perry wears on people, he’s been tough on Texas, we have low debt, good jobs, great opportunity, but that bothers alot of people.

    He’s been attacked as a racist, a pro amnestly supporter and a crook who was trying to pull a fast one on a medicine

    Why are people so worrued – oh thats right he makes decisions, cuts spending and tells people no.

    thats not what we need, what we need is someone born of fantastic wealth and connections, playing corporate games on Wall Street making gobs of money, out spending honest working candidates, saying anything he feels he has to to make his precentage point that day and we all roll the dice with this guy with our future not really knowing where he even lives.

    Great just F@cking great

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  253. Look at you losing your cool. I see now why Daley lost his patience with you.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 7:54 pm

    He had no patience for me, actually.

    I explained why I prefer Perry to Romney, and he freaked pretty much instantly.

    But I think that’s kinda Daley’s style. Which I admit, I usually think is very entertaining because I’m not on the receiving end of it.

    I’ll take a detailed look tomorrow and provide the links to info on Perry that paints a different picture of Perry’s record.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 7:53 pm

    You said you could show I was being dishonest. Not that you can paint a different picture of Perry.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  254. Back in 1987, when Perry was a young legislator (and a Democrat) he voted for a $5.7 billion tax hike proposed by GOP governor Bill Clements. Even after Perry succeeded George W. Bush as governor in late 2000, he was not averse to raising some taxes, often while cutting others. In 2001, for example, he signed bills that raised the sales tax on fireworks and even signed an air pollution tax on the purchase or rental of diesel equipment.

    In 2002, according to a nice summary of his tax record by Karen Setze of State Tax Notes (subscription only), while Perry’s Democratic opponent pledged to never raise taxes, Perry refused to make such a promise.

    Perry’s biggest revenue challenge came in 2004-2006. Texas had been funding its schools through local property taxes, an arrangement courts found problematic. In 2004, Perry proposed replacing some school property levies with a basket of other taxes, including sales taxes, a higher cigarette tax, and an increased payroll tax.

    Perry’s plan died in the legislature in 2004 but in 2006, after the state Supreme Court determined the school funding system was unconstitutional, lawmakers did pass a major tax reform bill—a measure praised and signed by Perry. This version reduced local property taxes but created a new gross receipts tax on business (called a margins tax), raised the cigarette tax, and even taxed patrons of topless bars. Thanks to my Tax Policy Center colleague Yuri Shadunsky for helping review the Perry years.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/08/16/rick-perrys-changing-take-on-raising-taxes/

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  255. Eric, you have to admit, Beldar is right.

    For whatever reason, Perry has generally not been hyper popular. Less popular than Bush, and just generally not the kind of person people fawn over.

    I think he would govern very effectively, and I think his agenda is to the point and superior, and I think I’m a little unusual in being able to support someone I’m not really personally enthused with.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  256. Recent articles by Shikha Dalmia of Reason and Aman Batheja of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram suggest that Perry’s fiscal record is a mixed bag.

    Let’s look at the numbers. Rick Perry came into office in December 2000, which was in the middle of Texas fiscal year 2001. Texas general fund spending has risen from $29 billion that first Perry year to $41 billion by fiscal 2011, which works out to an average annual increase of 3.5 percent. (Data from NASBO).

    Dalmia and Batheja compare Perry’s spending increases to increases under prior governor George W. Bush. But a better comparison is Perry versus the average spending increases of governors in all the 50 states over the last decade.

    Here is NASBO data showing increases in state general fund spending between fiscal 2001 and fiscal 2011:

    Texas, Perry: $29 billion to $41 billion, a 41 percent increase.
    Total of 50 states: $506 billion to $651 billion, a 29 percent increase.

    However, the Texas population has grown faster than the U.S. population, so let’s put these figures on a per-capita basis.

    Texas, Perry: $1,360 per capita to $1,598 per capita, an 18 percent increase.
    Total of 50 states: $1,774 per capita to $2,091 per capita, an 18 percent increase.

    Thus, Mr. Perry has been Mr. Average on state spending. Over the past decade, per capita state general fund spending rose the same amount in Texas as the nation as a whole.

    Note that total Texas state spending has risen substantially faster than just the general fund part of the Texas budget over the last decade (see Figure 16 in here). However, governors have more control over the general fund part of their budgets, so that is probably the best measure of a governors’ spending performance. (Still, Mr. Perry might want to explain to primary voters why the overall Texas budget has grown so quickly).

    In sum, Perry’s spending record appears rather centrist, but no one set of numbers can tell the whole fiscal story. Fiscal conservatives fear another big-spending Bush-style Republican winning the White House, so we should further probe the records of all the GOP hopefuls.

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/rick-perrys-spending-record/

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  257. Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 8:00 pm

    Cherry picking out of context points doesn’t prove what you said in comment 75.

    Yes, of course, Texas’s tax policy has gone up and down in various ways in the past twenty six years. But Texas’s tax and spending policies have been very good in comparison to other states. An increase from a little bit to a little bit is not bad.

    Perry has a conservative record because he has cut spending. Taxes are merely a reflection of that record (given the balanced budget amendment Perry is such a fan of).

    You said I was lying that Perry cut education spending. But I showed he did. Your links are the best you’ve got? Can’t you just be a man and admit you got carried away?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  258. Linking to huffingpost?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  259. Texas Governor Rick Perry may be the flavor of the day for a lot of Republicans, but Texas Republicans who are familiar with his record are a lot less enthusiastic about his presidential run. “Perry has a unique talent for finding new ways to raise taxes and loves to use taxpayer money to subsidize his business cronies,” says Secretary Dave Nalle of the Republican Liberty Caucus of Texas. “His supposed belief in limited government and states rights conveniently disappears whenever it conflicts with the demands of the special interests and corporate cronies who he serves.”

    Governor Perry’s record of big government, big spending, big taxing and attacks on the fundamental rights of Texas citizens is a familiar to Texans, but seems to be much less well known to Republicans outside of the state, which may explain his high initial showing in the polls. The Republican Liberty Caucus of Texas is compiling a complete dossier on Perry to share with fellow Republicans outside their state so that they can be informed about what they are being sold in a Perry presidential candidacy.

    The file on Perry’s abuses of power, insider deals with cronies and tax and spend policies is thick, but for a start here are what Texas RLC members voted as the top five Perry scandals which GOP primary voters need to know more about:

    Read more: http://wearechangetv.us/2011/08/texas-rlc-sends-warning-nationwide-about-rick-perry%e2%80%99s-tax-and-spend-record/#ixzz1aX6mdW63

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  260. Haiku, your links are merely spam.

    Can you back up your claim in comment 75?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  261. You are here: Home / Constitution/Bill of Rights / Texas RLC sends warning nationwide about Rick Perry’s Tax and Spend record
    Texas RLC sends warning nationwide about Rick Perry’s Tax and Spend record
    August 27, 2011 By admin Leave a Comment

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    By Dave Nalle

    Texas Governor Rick Perry may be the flavor of the day for a lot of Republicans, but Texas Republicans who are familiar with his record are a lot less enthusiastic about his presidential run. “Perry has a unique talent for finding new ways to raise taxes and loves to use taxpayer money to subsidize his business cronies,” says Secretary Dave Nalle of the Republican Liberty Caucus of Texas. “His supposed belief in limited government and states rights conveniently disappears whenever it conflicts with the demands of the special interests and corporate cronies who he serves.”

    Governor Perry’s record of big government, big spending, big taxing and attacks on the fundamental rights of Texas citizens is a familiar to Texans, but seems to be much less well known to Republicans outside of the state, which may explain his high initial showing in the polls. The Republican Liberty Caucus of Texas is compiling a complete dossier on Perry to share with fellow Republicans outside their state so that they can be informed about what they are being sold in a Perry presidential candidacy.

    The file on Perry’s abuses of power, insider deals with cronies and tax and spend policies is thick, but for a start here are what Texas RLC members voted as the top five Perry scandals which GOP primary voters need to know more about:

    1. Business Slush Funds

    : Perry made heavy use of business incentive “slush funds” which used taxpayer dollars to subsidize selected businesses, many of them run by his major campaign contributors. Just two of these funds, the Texas Enterprise Fund and the Texas Emerging Growth fund, spent over $700 million to subsidize businesses to move to Texas or expand operations in Texas, with little evidence that these handouts of taxpayer money produced job or revenue growth anywhere near sufficient to justify the expense. In fact, many of these businesses eventually downsized or relocated long before they had earned the money Perry gave them, or even went bankrupt with $25 million fund dollars like Countrywide Financial.

    source: http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/slush-fun

    2. Toll Roads and Land Seizures

    Perry has never met a toll road project he wasn’t willing to seize huge amounts of private land for and then give the exclusive management contracts to foreign corporations. Perry’s time in office has set records for eminent domain land seizures – over a million acres have been seized. His toll road projects have confiscated family farms and torn communities apart. Toll roads have been used as a massive off-the-books tax program, taking money from Texas drivers and feeding it to foreign financial interests and management groups which lobbied the governor for special deals which produce much higher tolls and higher profits than are typical in other states.

    source: http://www.handsoffourland.com/

    3. Forced Vaccinations

    : In 2007 Perry issued an executive order which would have forcibly vaccinated every girl in Texas entering the sixth grade with Merck’s Gardasil vaccine for Human Papilloma Virus. This massive violation of the privacy rights of Texas teenagers and their parents would have come at a cost of $360 in taxpayer money per shot. It would have been a huge windfall for Merck, which had paid Perry’s former Chief of Staff $250,000 to lobby the governor and legislature to promote the forced vaccination program.

    source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/34533806/Perry-s-Drug-Mandate-Scandal-Dossier

    4. The Job-Killing Franchise Tax

    : Knowing that it would be impossible to pass an income tax against popular opposition in Texas, Perry promoted the idea of a special business tax called the “Franchise Tax” which taxes businesses at different arbitrary rates set by the government. This tax expands business taxes to types of businesses which are not taxed in most states and in many cases taxes small businesses more than large corporations they compete with. For example it taxes small car repair shops at double the rate it taxes large dealerships for car repairs. It’s a small business and job killer.

    source: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/7414734.html

    5. Scuttled the Anti-TSA Bill

    When Rep. David Simpson led the Texas legislature towards passage of an enormously popular bill (HB1938) to hold the TSA accountable for intrusive searches of airline passengers, Perry played a key role in making sure that the bill was not passed. When the TSA and the Justice Department began pressuring him, although Perry had promised to submit the bill to the special legislative session, he delayed submitting the bill until it was so late in the session that it was virtually impossible to hold the constitutionally mandated votes necessary for passage. That way he could score points with the public for submitting the popular bill while at the same time making sure that it wouldn’t pass. It’s a classic example of Perry’s insincere pandering.

    source: http://www.blogster.com/feralpuppies/tsa-anti-groping-bill-killed-by-gov-rick-perry-lt-gov-david-dewhurst-and-speaker-joe-straus

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  262. We won’t survive Obama Romney.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  263. I’ll get to #75 tomorrow, Dustin. Get a good night’s sleep.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  264. Dustin

    Beldar is right but then again whens the last time we had a hyper popular politican

    Bush split Twice With Kerry and Gore

    Obama and hillary finished in about a dead heat for the nomination

    Carter and Ted split, Clinton, well he didnt get even room temp in two elections

    I dont Reagan and Nixon seem to be the only ones in the last half century and its been since 1984 that someone was popular (I dont count Bush 41 because no democrat really wanted to run)

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  265. Bush messed up this economy and Obama tried to clean it?

    Bullshat you useful idiots.

    If Bush was not in office in 2001 the dems would still blame him.

    Obama is continuing the wall street bailouts Bush made so he isn’t making the economy any better.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  266. I explained why I prefer Perry to Romney, and he freaked pretty much instantly.

    There you go again. He told you exactly why he had a problem with you. It is your passive/aggressive posting style, where you post disinformation about a candidate you don’t support.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  267. Everybody click Haiku’s link in comment 269. Tell me, is that an honest article?

    Check out the bottom. It’s filed under eugenics and secret societies and posted from a Ron Paul hysteric.

    Click the links in that article. Editorials often not even naming Perry are the sources Haiku is relying on?

    And didn’t Haiku just reject my link to Reason because they are libertarians? Then why is he linking libertarians?

    Haiku, you are embarrassing yourself. You promised you could back up your claims in comment 75, and then just googled anything critical of Rick Perry and spammed the thread. Now I’m supposed to read ten links to crazy blogs that believe Rick Perry is a eugenicist in a secret society?

    Why don’t you admit Texas is successful? And because it keeps government spending in check? And Perry did in fact work hard to cut education spending as I linked several times?

    You said I was dishonest, but your proof is pretty darn lacking.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  268. I understand the sentiments of peedoffamerican (#252). I am not happy with the idea of running the guy who lost to McCain against the guy who beat McCain. It is hard for me to accept that the GOP can’t do better.

    But I cannot respect anyone who would deny a general election vote to the GOP nominee, whoever that is, and who would thereby improve the reelection chances of Barack Obama. You cannot do the former without also doing the latter, and I will not absolve anyone who knowingly acts in a manner that will perpetuate Obama’s presidency. I hope he or she, and those similarly inclined, will put aside their petulance when the time comes. Moreover, if there is a quality common to the Tea Party, it is the quality of common sense. Common sense cannot but condemn the waste of one’s opportunity to cast a meaningful vote against Obama.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  269. Obama was continuing Bush’s bailouts but Obama was trying to clean up the economy by continuing Bush’s bailouts…………………..typical libtard revision.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  270. Hillarycare is like Obamacare.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  271. “But while Texas remains “open for business”—the slogan of his successful re-election campaign in 2010—the state’s Legislature is in the process of a going-out-of-business sale. The Texas budget for the next two years is a mess of accounting tricks and gutted programs, thanks to an unprecedented budget shortfall. The state’s business tax has not only been unpopular, it also doesn’t generate nearly enough revenue. Operating at a structural deficit, the state has even begun to attack funding in the once-hallowed ground of education. And while Perry has spent a good bit of June on his non-campaign-campaign, state lawmakers from both parties are fighting tooth-and-nail to legislate around his dictums.

    Although he campaigned in 2010 on the premise that, as he told the Associated Press, “Texas is better off than practically any state in the country,” Perry, along with the rest of the state, soon discovered that Texas’s budget gap—$27 billion short of what it would need to maintain its already lean services in the next biennium—was among the worst in the nation. Luckily, Texas did have a rainy day fund—over $9 billion saved up for “economic stabilization.” Some lawmakers, including many Republicans in the state Senate, advocated using the fund to prevent or at least soften cuts to education and health care. But Perry, who had turned “preserving the rainy day fund” into an applause line, stood firm in refusing to use it to plug holes in the budget for 2012-13. As a result, the budget cuts were draconian—initial proposals cut almost 20 percent from public schools and proposed 30 percent cuts to Medicaid providers. According to estimates from the nonpartisan state Legislative Budget Board, the initial proposal would have cost the state over 300,000 future jobs.

    In the face of Perry’s promise to veto any use of the rainy day fund, lawmakers turned to accounting tricks like deferred payments to soften the blows to state programs. Fees, too, on everything from getting help collecting child support to registering as a lobbyist, are going up all over the state, and almost nowhere does the budget account for normal growth in social services enrollment. The final budget short-funds Medicaid by almost $5 billion. Legislators had to return for a special session to hammer out the cuts to education, which will likely end up around $4 billion. It will mark the first time Texas has cut funding for public schools since 1949, when the state first took a prominent role in financing them. Even the Texas Association of Business, a conservative, pro-business coalition if ever there was one, has expressed concerns over some of the cuts to schools and early childhood education. “Our state runs the risk of falling short on our commitment to Texas school children and businesses that rely on a well-educated workforce,” the group proclaimed in one March press release.

    Of course, many lawmakers didn’t want to use the rainy day fund in the first place, but that’s because they know a dirty little secret: Even after this two year budget period, the state’s fiscal woes are far from over. The Lone Star State has a standing $10 billion shortfall every two-year budget cycle, thanks to a faulty tax system pushed by Perry that fails to balance the budget. Although the governor normally stays away from the state Legislature—sightings in either chamber are rare and exciting—Perry engineered a new business tax in 2006 to replace a prior one riddled with loopholes. Ostensibly a good idea, his new tax nonetheless suffered from the simple fact that it didn’t bring in enough revenue. Furthermore, it turned out to be incredibly complex, leaving many business owners scratching their heads. Those who figured it out, meanwhile, realized that, because the new tax was levied on gross margins as opposed to profits, companies could be losing money and still find themselves on the hook.”

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=10&sqi=2&ved=0CFkQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnr.com%2Fnode%2F90370&rct=j&q=Rick%20perry%27s%20record%20as%20governor&ei=HEmTTumqBNTRiALLl5HTCQ&usg=AFQjCNG0Y-wSieZZavjyEctSH0C5nc6JjA&cad=rja

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  272. There you go again. He told you exactly why he had a problem with you. It is your passive/aggressive posting style, where you post disinformation about a candidate you don’t support.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 8:12 pm

    He said I was having sex with EPWJ and I admit I didn’t read all of his ranting.

    There’s nothing dishonest about what I’ve said about Romney. I’ve quoted the guy, for Pete’s sake. His record is pretty terrible.

    When I say he increased the gun tax, or mandated citizens buy health insurance, that’s not disinformation. When I link thinks like this analyzing Romney’s budget hikes, that’s not disinformation.

    And what’s passive aggressive about my commenting? I’m being 100% direct here. I’m telling you I prefer Perry to Romney, and telling you specifically why.

    Do you understand what “passive aggressive” means?

    Do you realize that I’m just telling you my plain opinion and the facts I relied on to reach it?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  273. btw, when you call me a liar, and then post links to something completely different than what you claimed I was lying about, and also say I need to understand this is your sense of humor, isn’t that passive aggressive, Haiku?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  274. If Obama were trying to clean up the economy he wouldn’t be bailing out the banks. He did not inherit the bush economy he made it worse.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  275. Bush did mess up the economy and Omoron messed it up worse.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  276. I’ll get to #75 tomorrow, Dustin. Get a good night’s sleep.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 8:09 pm

    So you demand links, spam threads with links that are pretty obviously ridiculous, and explain you will justify a personal attack on me… eventually.

    I honestly expected a lot more out of you. You know I would treat you much more honorably than you’re treating me, and I bet that stings.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  277. Haiku is a hypocrite.

    So what will happen when the economy collapses on Obama’s watch?

    I guess the left will say Bush started it and Obama tried to clean it up.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  278. I think you’ve gone a little crackers, Dustin. I’ll keep it polite. I’ve read quite a few of your posts as I comb for links I’ve already posted before.

    “Perry opposed creating a Texas state income tax and increasing sales tax rates, choosing instead to increase user fees and debt, adding $2 billion for road bonds,[52][53] borrowing from the Federal Unemployment Trust Fund[54] and adding surcharges to various traffic offenses, protected the state’s “Rainy Day fund”, balanced the state budget as required by state law, and was reelected on a platform to reduce property taxes that rose with the inflation of property values in the late 1990s and the 21st century.
    [edit] Tax policy

    In 2002, although his Democratic opponent pledged to never raise taxes, Perry refused to make such a promise.[55] In 2009, however, Perry signed Grover Norquist’s pledge to “oppose and veto any and all efforts to increase taxes”.

    In 2004, Perry proposed a number of tax increases to pay for public schools,[55] including a tax on strip clubs.[56] The “pole tax” idea went nowhere until 2007, when the Legislature approved a $5 per patron fee. The measure subsequently became tied up in litigation as the adult entertainment industry sued citing performers’ First Amendment rights.[57]

    In early 2006, Perry signed legislation that delivered a $15.7 billion reduction in property taxes[58] while raising other taxes such as a state franchise tax. The tax was condemned as a “back door” state income tax by many organizations.[59] Perry claimed that the bill would save the average taxpayer $2,000 in property taxes. Critics contended that Perry inflated these numbers; the actual tax savings, some sources said, would average only $150 per family in the first year, and $1,350 over a three-year period.[60]

    In 2009, the wealthiest 1 percent of Texans paid 3 percent of their income in state and local taxes, while the poorest fifth of Texans paid about 12 percent of their income.

    During Perry’s governorship, Texas rose from second to first among states with the highest proportion of uninsured residents at 26%, and has the lowest level of access to prenatal care. Perry and the Republican-led state legislature have cut Medicaid spending and made it more difficult to enroll in the program, which currently covers one-third of Texas children.[74] The cost of caring for uninsured Texans has been borne by those with insurance, leading to substantial rises in insurance premiums and leading Texas to rank next-to-last among states in terms of affordability of health insurance.[76] An analysis in the Los Angeles Times wrote that under Perry, “working Texans increasingly have been priced out of private healthcare while the state’s safety net has withered.”[76] The Bush administration rejected an attempt by Perry to cut Medicare benefits further, saying that there was no precedent for such limited coverage.[77]

    In response, Perry’s office has argued that Texas represents a model private-sector approach to health-care. His spokeswoman stated that “Texas does provide an adequate safety net to those truly in need… and many individuals simply choose not to purchase healthcare coverage.”[76]

    Giuliani and Perry endorsed Arizona Senator John McCain for President.[234] Shortly after Mitt Romney’s withdrawal from the race in early February, Perry reportedly called McCain rival Mike Huckabee and suggested that he withdraw as well to clear the way for McCain to secure the nomination. Huckabee declined this request and made it clear publicly that he would abandon his presidential bid only if McCain secured enough delegates.[235] Huckabee withdrew his presidential bid on March 5, 2008, after John McCain won the Texas and Ohio primaries.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/6/2011 @ 5:50 pm

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  279. Flopney endorsed Mccain for the senate.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  280. Colonel, the reason I mentioned John Connally and Phil Gramm (apologies for misspelling his name earlier) is that they were both, briefly, GOP presidential candidates from Texas who were very well financed, who had been extremely successful in electoral politics, and who were very thought to be formidable candidates not only by their fellow Texans but by other observers, including the national chattering classes of both parties. Their candidacies were serious but remarkably unsuccessful. They were both serious and substantial men who earned respect despite their presidential campaigns’ inability to gain traction.

    You’re generally a very funny guy. I thought your “Tiny Tim” remark, though, wasn’t much on target, and so not very funny. Gov. Perry is easy to caricature (as was his predecessor in the Texas governor’s mansion), but that comparison really didn’t fit, unless you were trying to insinuate something scandalous about sexual preferences. Tiny Tim was doing a comedy gag, a publicity stunt. As much as I love to poke fun at Dr. Paul, I still give him vastly more respect than your comment implies. And I don’t mean to make a mountain out of a molehill, but I also wouldn’t want anyone to mistakenly assume that I agreed with your comparison (even though you used a line of mine as your springboard for the joke).

    Beldar (6928b2)

  281. “very thought” –> “very widely thought,” sorry.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  282. Also annoying is that Haiku often spams threads with stale Perry hit pieces. Like that one from many months ago he posted in comment 280.

    He doesn’t explain its relevance, but rather copies 90% of the ten page article into the thread.

    And he always does it after he’s lost the argument and just wants to ruin the thread.

    And he’s claiming I’m passive aggressive?

    I don’t think it’s fair to judge Romney for his fanboys’ behavior, but these fanboys lately lack class.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  283. I wonder how long the obots will go defending Obama until they realize he couldn’t care about their situation?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  284. ________________________________________________

    Go ahead, give Romney the nomination, and you will insure another 4 years of Obammy when conservatives sit out the election again.

    I think if you truly believed Obama is too leftwing — and he is — and were sincerely appalled or disgusted by that, you’d be too desperate to play the my-way-or-the-highway game. Not at this late date, not when the US is staring straight into a future as the world’s biggest Banana Republic—as a northern version of Mexico/Argentina, with a bit of Venezuela thrown in for good measure, or a western version of France/Greece.

    In some ways, I think those who demand ideological purity out of the people they’ll vote for during this pathetic time (this “goddamn America!” time) in US history — after decades of socio-economic liberalism having seeped into every nook and cranny — either really aren’t that bothered by the left-leaning wobble and decline of this nation or they plan to move to another country.

    Mark (411533)

  285. To further clarify: I meant I’d give even kooky old Dr. Paul more respect than to compare him to Tiny Tim.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  286. So let me guess this straight Bush’s bank bailouts are wrong but Obama tried to clean up the economy by continuing them at breakneck speed?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  287. and I will not absolve anyone who knowingly acts in a manner that will perpetuate Obama’s presidency.

    Go ahead and vote Romney, then. I will not vote for progressive light. I would much rather Obama get the blame for destroying the economy than the Progressive light republican. Who do you think will get the blame and be destroyed as a political party if a RINO or Dem-lite is elected as the POTUS and the economy tanks even more?

    Either give me a conservative or mostly conservative candidate that I won’t have to hold my nose to vote for, or kiss my vote goodbye. I will not vote for a liberal of either party. The difference of choice between Romney and Obama is not even enough to fill a thimble. The only difference is Chicago Lib vs. NE Coast Lib.

    I have had it with the elites in the republican party and the elites in the media choosing the republican candidate. Why else in the hell do you think that New Hampshire always goes first in the primaries? To try and foist upon conservatives the most libturd candidate that is running as a so-called republican.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  288. I think you’ve gone a little crackers, Dustin. I’ll keep it polite. I’ve read quite a few of your posts as I comb for links I’ve already posted before.

    FYI, some of your comments aren’t posting instantly, so I’m not seeing them all. This one, for example.

    Thanks for keeping it polite after calling me a liar about something you know I spoke the 100% truth about.

    I think you just spammed the thread by copying most of a wikipedia section here. Is that really necessary? Do you have a freaking argument yet?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  289. ColonelHaiku, I know you are doing your very level best to smear Governor Perry (why else would you use HuffingtonPost?) but those of us who actually live in Texas, unlike you, know better.

    What you don’t seem to understand is that the governor of Texas has very little to do with the Texas bi-annual budget. That budget is worked out by our legislature, and although the governor can request certain things, his main responsibility is to make sure that budget is balanced.

    One of the reasons Texas had greater expenses than normal was Hurricane Ike. It literally destroyed Galveston Island, taking out historic landmarks that had made it through hurricains for 100 years. The Federal government assured Texas that FEMA would cover the cost of clean up, and Texas should go ahead and start with that process. Unfortunately, the Obama administration decided to renig on that guarantee, instead sending more FEMA money to New Orleans.

    Now, in full disclosure, you should tell us Texans, since you seem to think our state, and governor, are such disasters, what state you live in. Unless you are looking for an unfair fight.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  290. So is it wrong for everyone to blame Obamas job slaying regulations for them not getting a job?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  291. POA, I empathize greatly with you on this.

    Beldar is trying to hold the tent together. We do need to beat Obama. I will be voting for Romney, even though I’m not even sure he’s to Obama’s right on the one issue mattering most to me.

    Romney is, at the very least, more intelligent and competent. That matters. I also think his judicial appointments would be far better than Obama’s, and that’s a lasting impact on your freedoms.

    I’m not going to tell you who to support, but I urge you to support them now, with money.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  292. btw, I say I’ll vote Romney in the general. Obviously I’m not going to vote for him in the primary unless something quite crazy occurs.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  293. Colonel, I’m not sure of the specifics of your argument with Dustin, and I don’t want to get into the middle of it.

    However, if your argument is that Gov. Perry has been insufficiently conservative in holding the line against state tax increases, despite enormous and constant pressures to raise taxes, Texans have very emphatically and repeatedly rejected your argument, most recently when Gov. Perry defeated the state’s senior sitting U.S. senator in the 2010 Texas gubernatorial primary, and then defeated the Dems’ latest sacrificial lamb (who was actually the best candidate they’ve run in years) in the 2010 general election.

    Rick Perry has been consistently conservative on taxes, or he could not have been successful in this state. You can quote however many pages from Wikipedia that you want, but they cannot alter that truth, and it is a truth that doesn’t depend on your, my, Dustin’s, or the Wikipedia’s subjective perceptions or opinions.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  294. I also think his judicial appointments would be far better than Obama’s, and that’s a lasting impact on your freedoms.

    I don’t think his appointments would be one bit better. He appointed mostly leftists to open positions in Mass.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  295. Dustin

    Oh course you are not a liar – look I again apologize I got Daley worked up in that thread and you just stepped in the way of a punch probably intended for me

    Col and Daley are worried that Perry cant beat Obama – this is where all this is coming from – they are good people like you and everyone else here – no insult to you personally should be taken

    sorry for what I did

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  296. He would only be more coy in his nominations by nominating hidden big gov lefturds.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  297. peedoffamerican wrote (#297), “I would much rather Obama get the blame for destroying the economy than the Progressive light republican.”

    I would much rather the economy not be destroyed.

    You haven’t overstated the case. If anything, you’ve understated it: Obama puts us at risk not only of domestic collapse, but international calamity.

    Do you have children? If you do, surely you don’t want to see the economy destroyed. Surely you’ll realize that withholding a vote that could help defeat Obama is something you owe them, even at the expense of having to overcome your own pique. Otherwise, who’s the child?

    No, you’ll find no encouragement or respect from me for your viewpoint, and I hope you’ll outgrow it.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  298. Gah … too many negatives, got it exactly backwards.

    “Surely you’ll realize that withholding a vote that could help defeat Obama is something you owe them, even at the expense of having to overcome your own pique.” — should be —> “Surely you’ll realize that casting a vote that could help defeat Obama is something you owe them, even at the expense of having to overcome your own pique.”

    Beldar (6928b2)

  299. Gah … too many negatives, got it exactly backwards.

    “Surely you’ll realize that withholding a vote that could help defeat Obama is something you owe them, even at the expense of having to overcome your own pique.” — should be —> “Surely you’ll realize that casting a vote that could help defeat Obama is something you owe them, even at the expense of having to overcome your own pique.”

    Beldar (6928b2)

  300. Col and Daley are worried that Perry cant beat Obama – this is where all this is coming from – they are good people like you and everyone else here – no insult to you personally should be taken

    I can appreciate this idea. I disagree, but it’s born of a good motive if that’s really all this is.

    The most mature thing to do when someone calls you a liar in the internet is just back up your claim with some links and ask for them to explain how you’re wrong.

    That’s what I tried. I do take it personally, which is really stupid, since I don’t know these guys and I’m sure they are getting quite a kick out of this.

    I don’t think his appointments would be one bit better. He appointed mostly leftists to open positions in Mass.

    Comment by peedoffamerican — 10/11/2011 @ 8:42 pm

    I didn’t realize that. I’m not sure what to tell you. Fast and Furious type mistakes are less likely with Romney, though Romney’s discussion of it earlier today was frankly disturbing (he simply waffled).

    Anyway, let’s work as hard as we can to make sure you don’t have to worry about this in the general.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  301. Beldar

    Romney is more of a threat to the economy than Obama because he acts like he knows the answer – he has no clue and the Republican senate and house will follow his lead unitl its too late

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  302. Let me say it another way, sir or ma’am:

    If you don’t vote, you are not a conservative, you are an irrelevancy.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  303. The democrat swill still worship Obama even when he suspends Martial Law and throws them into prison.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  304. lub for Growth Gives Perry a “B” and Romney a “C” on their tax and spend policies and note that “When evaluating a Governor, it is even more instructive to judge performance in the context of the political climate of their state and the partisan and ideological composition of their legislature. Working in the environment in which a Governor finds him or herself, the operative question is often whether he or she improved or worsened the climate for economic growth.

    The Texas tax and regulatory climate Governor Rick Perry inherited from Governor George W. Bush was already among the best in the nation. Further, during Perry’s entire long tenure as governor, the Texas Legislature has had conservative Republican majorities. So the bar for judging Perry’s performance should be set high.

    It is quite clear that Perry did not move his state in reverse, or on the wrong course. In many instances, he merely maintained a positive status quo. In others, such as tort reform and regulations, he improved the Texas economic climate.

    Still, his support for taxpayer-subsidized funds to lure jobs away from other states shows he has at times an interventionist streak rather than consistent free-market principles. His semi-apology for the big government interventions of President Bush suggests a similar inclination.”

    Now we return you to your attacks on my character, or lack thereof, lol…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  305. make that “club”

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  306. Now we return you to your attacks on my character, or lack thereof, lol…

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 8:49 pm

    You’re the one calling me every name you can come up with, from passive aggressive to dishonest to crackers. I admit, you’re tame compared to Daley, but I actually respected your opinion so this is pretty annoying.

    Your entire argument is simply to attack my character. That’s not even relevant to my argument.

    Instead of telling me how bad I am, and how bad it is to tell people how bad they are, why not relax and admit Perry has a more conservative record than Romney? There’s no need to get up in arms about it, and you can still argue that you think Romney is more electable.

    Your own source in 314 (I linked them in comment 143) notes Romney increased spending quite a bit, and in his own proposals. Perry reduced spending.

    Granted, Perry was in a place where you need to govern like a rightie, and Romney was in a place where righties can hardly even get elected. I don’t understand how this excuses Romney’s leadership unless you are admitting Romney is insincere in how he leads, just doing what furthers his career.

    Can’t we just cut the horsecrap here? You think Romney is more electable and pragmatic, and realize Perry is more conservative though you think less electable.

    This is not really a serious argument over which is more conservative.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  307. Dustin

    People are going to call you a liar now that they know it pisses you off – just let it go, its wrong but that them not you, its their weakness, not yours

    EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7)

  308. Beldar, your post #307… exactly! I have kids and soon will have grandkids and I fear for their future. Our eyes should be on the prize and whichever candidate ends up getting the Republican nomination, that candidate should receive our support and votes.

    I do not think that people who would choose to sit on their hands instead of voting for a Romney or any of the candidates at that table tonight should they receive the nod are using the intelligence the Good Lord gave them. That is what lay behind my description of them as “useful idiots”.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  309. No, Dustin. re: all of your posts… My point is that Perry is not nearly as good as you think he is and Romney isn’t nearly as bad as you think he is.

    Can you get to that?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  310. So its the repubs fault the economy is the way it is?

    When will you leftys blame Obama for your plight?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  311. Good night all… even you, retired guy, you cranky old bastard, you.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  312. I would much rather the economy not be destroyed.

    You haven’t overstated the case. If anything, you’ve understated it: Obama puts us at risk not only of domestic collapse, but international calamity.

    I would rather it not be destroyed either. But with either Romney or Obama at the helm, mark my words, it will be destroyed. Just a smidgeon slower with O’Romney, and the republicans will receive all of the blame.

    “Surely you’ll realize that casting a vote that could help defeat Obama is something you owe them, even at the expense of having to overcome your own pique.”

    I don’t owe them squat. They owe me as a taxpaying citizen. After all, the pols are supposed to work for “We The People”, not the other way around.

    Here’s something for you to ponder on. By the time the primaries got to my state last time, there were 3 candidates left on the ballot. McLame, Huckster, and O’Romney.

    Who did I vote for? Big clue!! I voted for what was the most palatable candidate for me at the time. O’Romney was who I touched the screen for then as I thought he would be the least damaging and have a shot at the title. I will not do so again.

    He reminds me of a used car selling shyster. And this conservative will not pull the lever, touch the screen, or punch a chad for a liberal ever again.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  313. That is what lay behind my description of them as “useful idiots”.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 8:59 pm

    They aren’t idiots, though. In fact, they are sincerely worried about the disaster that looms if this country doesn’t reform its insane spending, particularly on entitlements.

    It takes a little humility about Romney to convince these folks you have so much contempt for that you actually know what’s best for their family.

    POA’s concerns are valid. I hope we all can agree to support the GOP nominee, but those concerns aren’t idiotic at all. We’re asking POA to make a major gamble and a major compromise. Yeah, I think that’s what people should do if it comes down to it, but we’re in the primary now, so the main reaction I have is that Romney will have the same difficulty Bob Dole and George HW Bush had.

    Remember, the GOP has lost every presidential election since the 1980s ended when we nominated a moderate. And that’s when worries about giant sucking sounds and the deficit were confined to a pie chart on Larry King, presented by Ross Perot.

    Now those concerns are conveyed by hundreds of thousands of righteous protestors.

    It should at least give you pause about nominating Romney.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  314. My God, the libturd pols have moved so far to the left, that a little less libturd like O’Romney is now considered a moderate. We Are Doomed!!!!!

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  315. My point is that Perry is not nearly as good as you think he is and Romney isn’t nearly as bad as you think he is.

    Can you get to that?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 9:01 pm

    This really isn’t what you said about me in comment 75, is it? I made a point for Perry on a specific provable ground, and you claimed I was lying. You know darn well I wasn’t.

    I can’t respond to all your comments because you are simply spamming the majority of every anti Perry article you find, zero of them germane to the point you claimed you could make.

    You can just admit it. Perry cut education spending, proving he can take the heat and balance a tough budget. And by how much? More than Romneycare lost in billions with a b as in bum steer.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  316. I like peedoffamerican’s point about making the Democrats own the economy, but I’m still unwilling to do anything that will help re-elect Obama to a second term. Even moderates like Huntsman or Romney are more likely to respond to pressure from the GOP base than a second term President Obama would be. In fact, I can guarantee Obama 2.0 wouldn’t care what Republicans think, even if the GOP controls both the House and Senate. Obama might not be able to get more legislation like ObamaCare but he can make our lives miserable with massive regulations and far left judicial nominations, and I’d bet a GOP Senate would cave on all but the most extreme nominees. (Thanks, Lindsey Graham!)

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  317. Common Michelle, 666?

    AZ Bob (ffd720)

  318. DRJ,

    Whether O’Romney or Obammy is president will be irrelevant. Our best hope for preserving this country is to elect enough Tea Party minded members to Congress and the Senate to have a veto proof body that will do what it takes to reduce spending and deny whoever is president the votes to install their nominees to the courts. Even if this means continuing vacancies on the courts until someone acceptable is nominated,up to and including SCOTUS.

    As I stated above, Romney’s and Obama’s nominees would only differ in that Romneys nominees would be stealthier. I have no hope otherwise if either of those 2 are elected. I pray that we do not make Romney our nominee.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  319. G’night mates.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  320. Almost all the people who voted for Ross Perot in 1992 thought they were doing an honorable, principled thing that would signal something important to the future about fiscal responsibility.

    And instead we got Bill Clinton. That’s the only way their vote is remembered today: Not as a principled protest, but as what finally lost the election for George H.W. Bush.

    Do you remember Bill Clinton? He’s the one who Obama now makes look quite moderate by comparison.

    No difference between RINO Bush-41 and Clinton, say you? Only if you ignore the tax code, the liberal wing of a closely divided SCOTUS, and the nonpursuit of al Qaeda, and only if you think blowjobs in the Oval Office were a great idea.

    Peedoff, it is not to any candidate or party that you owe your vote. Re-read, please, what I wrote. It is to your children. Obama is worse than Carter, and arguably worse even than Jimmy Carter. Sometimes you have to look at it as who you’re voting against, even if that’s the only satisfaction you can get out of the process. But staying home? That’s immoral for someone like you, who knows better and has shown it in the past. I hope you’ll change your mind on that little bit, if you can be persuaded to change your mind at all, sir or ma’am.

    Beldar (6928b2)

  321. Gah. My proofreading tonight sucks. “Obama is worse than Carter, and arguably worse even than Jimmy Carter.” –> “Obama is worse than Clinton, and arguably worse even than Jimmy Carter.”

    Beldar (6928b2)

  322. hey happyfeet!
    did you get perry-tonitis like AllahP yet?

    hahaha

    your candidates ALL SUKK!

    wheeler's cat (e07004)

  323. Beldar (290),

    You hit on the topic of my post for tomorrow (which I’ve been slogging through for a while).

    Karl (37b303)

  324. George HW Bush’s legacy is David Souter and Clarence Thomas.

    So that’s very mixed, but I admit superior to Clinton’s legacy of Ginsburg and Breyer.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  325. ______________________________________________

    As I stated above, Romney’s and Obama’s nominees would only differ in that Romneys nominees would be stealthier.

    I don’t deny the validity of your skepticism when it was George Bush Sr who nominated David Souter — so damn liberal he thought it was discriminatory and unconstitutional for the NEA to not award grants to any and every arts group out there — to the Supreme Court.

    Why is it so rare, if even non-existent, for the opposite to happen? Or for a liberal president, such as a Clinton or a Carter, to select a judge who ends up being quite conservative, or far less liberal than expected? That’s why I sometimes think of liberal bias as analogous to a very contagious, nasty, crappy disease.

    Mark (411533)

  326. “Colonel Haiku, are you going to back up comment 75 or not?

    Just repeatedly announcing you have already done it is not impressing anyone.

    In what way did Texas not really cut education spending?”

    Dustin – I’m in the middle of reading the thread, but your shabby treatment of Haiku is unjustified. You can’t seem to restrain yourself when it comes to defending Perry and attacking his opponents. You are clearly becoming a protege of EPWJ since you forget your bitch slapping from thread to thread.

    The links you posted claiming to refute the Colonel’s point represent cuts to education spending on paper only. They are all for the fiscal year beginning September 1, 2011, which is barely a month old. The cuts have not even occurred yet. Count them when the year is over.

    Your understanding of the concept of a balanced budget as a cure all is seriously flawed given the accounting gimmicks which you acknowledged Texas using to get its books in order last night.

    Your claim that you don’t spin Romney’s performance gave me the biggest laugh I’ve had all night.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  327. “Either what I’m saying is provable and even obvious, or it’s a good faith opinion, or in one sole case, I was mistaken (I said Romney increased the gun tax 400%, but he had actually increased it from $25 to $100).”

    Dustin – There you go again with another lie. I said your math error was a minor point. The major point was your allegation that Romney was a gun grabber. Have you responded to my point on that yet or are you still dodging and focusing on your math error because you don’t want to admit yet another factual error in your anti-Romney spin?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  328. “I’m not just picking Romney to lie about. I really think he’s too liberal.

    If you want to have a fierce debate, that’s fine, but if you’re going to question my honesty I am going to get pissed off. And you know that.”

    Dustin – Plenty of people think Romney is too liberal, but they don’t lie about him to attempt to prove their point. When you do, I get pissed off. You know that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  329. Beldar, thank you for your comment. There are lots of folks who claim that a Republican nominee they don’t like is “no different from” the Democratic incumbent that they claim not to support. It is histrionics and anger, not reasoned argument.

    Sitting out elections, or 3rd party votes, simply helps the winner. And I am pretty much convinced that this is a critical Presidential election.

    But there will be lots and lots of people who haven’t learned the Perot Lesson. Fingers (and toes) crossed that such people will understand that voting for “the least bad” is better than giving four more years to “demonstrably worse.”

    Simon Jester (615040)

  330. ________________________________________________

    So its the repubs fault the economy is the way it is?

    I don’t know if anyone sees just how absurd the following (per below) really is. It’s so ironic and twisted, so against prevailing stereotypes and assumptions, that even I have pull back at the lunacy of limousine liberalism.

    When wealth becomes oddly intertwined with the perverse “goddamn America!” leftism of someone like Obama, that just about spells the arrival of the so-called “end times.” Or it harkens this age we live in, the Age of Insanity.

    dailycaller.com: Despite his rhetorical attacks on Wall Street, a study by the Sunlight Foundation’s Influence Project shows that President Barack Obama has received more money from Wall Street than any other politician over the past 20 years, including former President George W. Bush.

    In 2008, Wall Street’s largesse accounted for 20 percent of Obama’s total take, according to Reuters.

    An examination of the numbers shows that Obama took in $421,242 in campaign contributions in 2008 from Bank of America’s executives, PACs and employees, which exceeded its prior record contribution of $329,761 to President George W. Bush in 2004.

    According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Wall Street firms also contributed more to Obama’s 2008 campaign than they gave to Republican nominee John McCain.

    “The securities and investment industry is Obama’s second largest source of bundlers, after lawyers, at least 56 individuals have raised at least $8.9 million for his campaign,” Massie Ritsch wrote in a Sept. 18, 2008 entry on the Center for Responsive Politics’s OpenSecrets blog.

    By the end of Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign, executives and others connected with Wall Street firms, such as Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Citigroup, UBS AG, JPMorgan Chase, and Morgan Stanley, poured nearly $15.8 million into his coffers.

    Mark (411533)

  331. Dustin – I’m in the middle of reading the thread, but your shabby treatment of Haiku is unjustified.

    Why?

    He said a specific claim I made was dishonest. I proved I was being 100% accurate and asked him to back up his point. Haiku said he wouldn’t until tomorrow.

    All I did was ask him to back up his claims. He’s the one insulting me, not the other way around, and he’s done so in several comments, just as you have.

    The links you posted claiming to refute the Colonel’s point represent cuts to education spending on paper only.

    ? No, it’s a real cut, and it was difficult to make happen, and as I proved, Perry led the way on this against a lot of flack. It’s the law today.

    Your understanding of the concept of a balanced budget as a cure all is seriously flawed given the accounting gimmicks which you acknowledged Texas using to get its books in order last night.

    Accounting gimmicks? You mean that Texas sells short term bonds to have liquid assets for monthly expenses, but does indeed have a balanced budget year to year?

    That is in fact a major reason why Texas’s spending is under control. Yes, it’s a hassle. It’s not as easy as spending out of control (at least in the short term).

    The results are undeniably conservative and have resulted in Texas remaining much more stable when the economy turns sour.

    Your claim that you don’t spin Romney’s performance gave me the biggest laugh I’ve had all night.

    You are, by far, the loudest and nastiest Romney fan I’ve ever come across. Your treatment of me is so harsh that your moaning that I’ve been unfair to Haiku is clearly insincere. All I did was ask Haiku to provide a link to his claims. You actually claimed I was having sex with an unpopular commenter, and made many more nasty comments about the “needle of sex and” Perry being gay, as I quoted in the last thread we discussed.

    You have absolutely no credibility on this.

    But as far as me spinning Romney, all I’ve done was honestly recite his record. He did impose a health care mandate, widely known as Romneycare. He did ban some guns and he did increase the gun tax from $25 to $100. He did many other liberal things, such as propose budgets with increased spending, and impose tax increases (or whatever you want to call it when businesses and taxpayers pay the government more money).

    You say I’m spinning, but then justify all this with a maze of nonsense.

    No, I’m not spinning. It’s pretty obvious that Perry’s record is more conservative than Romney’s. We all know it. The excuse that Romney had to lead that way because MA is a blue state only goes to his sincerity when leading (either he leads as he thinks is right, or he doesn’t).

    Your whining about my polite treatment of Haiku, given his ugly treatment of me and your far uglier treatment of me shows what kind of person you are.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  332. “Col and Daley are worried that Perry cant beat Obama”

    EPWJ – You don’t even understand what is in your own sick mind, how can you pretend to understand what others think?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  333. Dustin – Plenty of people think Romney is too liberal, but they don’t lie about him to attempt to prove their point. When you do, I get pissed off. You know that.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/11/2011 @ 9:57 pm

    Pathetic, Daleyrocks. I have repeatedly challenged you to name a single provable lie I’ve told. All you had was to note I said an increase from $25 to $100 was 400%, which I admitted was an error, and you realize was a good faith error.

    What lies?

    Why do you have to keep using personal attacks instead of factual arguments? Why all the lame sophistry?

    You’re pissed off because you can’t hold your own in an argument. Your arguments have amounted to calling Perry gay and using the “needle of sex”, and justifying it because someone you don’t like prefers Perry. Your arguments have amounted to ignoring the obvious that Texas is far more successfully governed than MA or practically any other state by relying on nonsense.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  334. And again, Daleyrocks didn’t even attempt to have a civil discussion on this. He went from friend to foe instantly when he started defending Romney. He responded to my links bolstering my claims by simply calling me a liar and asking who I’m sleeping with.

    I’ve enjoyed Daleyrocks’s bashing of skulls before, but now that I’m on the receiving end of it, I realize he doesn’t want an honest dialogue with a good faith critic of Romney’s record. He thinks Romney is the candidate, and is already in general election mode, interpreting any criticism as unacceptable.

    Why would I lie about Romney’s liberalism? If he weren’t liberal I wouldn’t have a problem with him to start with. It’s not like I woke up one day wanting to oppress Romney.

    He really is a pathetic panderer.

    “There’s only one person I know of who has cut Medicare. That is the president of the United States. He cut it by $500 billion and put it into Obama Care, and I will turn that around. That is wrong,” Romney said. “So when you see your friends with signs that say keep your hands off our Medicare, they are absolutely right. We’ve got to vote that guy out of office.”

    How in the hell am I spinning this guy, Daleyrocks?

    He is promising to give voters more entitlements than Obama is giving them.

    Your weird need to get into the weeds betrays the fact that you don’t want to look at these people as they plainly are.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  335. Jon. Huntsman.

    tifosa (05e2bd)

  336. Weird. Troll.

    Simon Jester (615040)

  337. :^)Aww Simon, thanks dude. (Notice I didn’t go the obvious route with “Simple. Simon?”)

    tifosa (05e2bd)

  338. “They know I’m just calling the facts as plain as they sit. Perry is obviously very conservative unless you take a very weird look at him, and Romney is obviously very liberal, at least in practice.”

    Dustin – I see from this thread again that your definition of facts is claiming people are saying things they have not said. Again, an EPWJ move.

    I have not claimed Perry is not conservative nor have I not claimed Romney is not more liberal than Perry yet you persist in attributing these views to me. I call that explicitly lying about what I have said. You cannot defend it. EPWJ in training.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  339. “He had no patience for me, actually.

    I explained why I prefer Perry to Romney, and he freaked pretty much instantly.”

    Dustin – That is dayum funny. I have no problem calling you a liar in your continued smears of Romney and blind support of Perry because I have proved your lies in thread after thread with facts and links.

    Your support of Perry and denigration of his opponents, Romney in particular, has turned into the equivalent of happyfeet and EPWJ smearing Palin. Sad but true.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  340. “What you don’t seem to understand is that the governor of Texas has very little to do with the Texas bi-annual budget. That budget is worked out by our legislature, and although the governor can request certain things, his main responsibility is to make sure that budget is balanced.”

    retire05 – Classic comment. If the governor has so little to do with the budget, why should he get any credit or blame for the fiscal performance of Texas? From Dustin’s ceaseless comments about it, I understand Texas has a legal requirement to have a balanced budget. Since the governor has so little input into the rest of the budget process as you claim, what part does he play in making sure it is balanced? Why do they need him?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  341. No, Dustin. re: all of your posts… My point is that Perry is not nearly as good as you think he is and Romney isn’t nearly as bad as you think he is.

    Can you get to that?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 9:01 pm

    Colonel – No, he cannot. He has gone beyond the bend, crackers. I used to respect his comments.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  342. Isn’t the only pertinent question: who would lose by the least in a general election? :p

    tifosa (05e2bd)

  343. “You are, by far, the loudest and nastiest Romney fan I’ve ever come across. Your treatment of me is so harsh that your moaning that I’ve been unfair to Haiku is clearly insincere.”

    Dustin – Total crap. He told you he would find data tomorrow. How many times after that did you ask him again to support his claim, at least 20? You were acting like a complete asshole on the thread.

    Asking you whether you were having sex with EPWJ – why don’t you go back and refresh your memory for the context of that comment. It was during another of your out of control unsupported rantings about Romney, just like EPWJ’s. I can read the NY Times through your skin. You whine, I support what I say and don’t claim others said thing they did not, which has turned into one of your favorite commenting devices.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  344. “I realize he doesn’t want an honest dialogue with a good faith critic of Romney’s record.”

    Dustin – I would be happy to have a dialogue with a good faith critic of Romney. You know that person is not you. I have proved that time and again. It is tiresome.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  345. “Chris Edwards, director of tax-policy studies at the Cato Institute, compared Perry’s spending record with those of other governors and decided that Perry was “rather centrist” on spending overall. Crunching the data, Edwards found that under Perry, per capita spending in Texas had risen by 18 percent, the same amount that spending in other states increased, on average, in the years Perry was governor… Perry has been willing to accept federal funds. He turned down stimulus funds targeted for assistance to the unemployed ($555 million) — but accepted nearly $17 billion in stimulus funds targeted at other efforts. An analysis by PolitiFact Texas found that Texas had shifted from a donor state (paying more in taxes than receiving in federal funds) to a recipient state under Perry’s tenure. “On an annual basis between 1981 and 2003, Texas almost always paid more in federal taxes than it got back from Uncle Sam. But since 2003 the reverse has been true, with Texas receiving more than it paid in five out of seven years, which is close to routine,” PolitiFact Texas reported in April.

    There are many reasons Texas might have become a recipient state. The most obvious is that the state’s demographic composition has changed. A growing share of younger Texans are of Mexican origin, and at least some of them have foreign-born parents with limited English proficiency and other disadvantages that make them more likely to be eligible for federal assistance.

    But accepting federal funds isn’t the only chink in Perry’s small-spending armor: He also can’t point to the same experience with budget wars that a Scott Walker–type would have accumulated over the years. Having governed in Texas, Perry benefited from having a conservative legislature — which means he is “untested” on his ability to cut spending when confronted by a different kind of legislature and fiscal situation, observes Edwards.

    Keep in mind that Gov. Perry has been forced to make deep cuts in K-12 spending in the last budget cycle, and across the board. Having been in power for over a decade, one has to wonder why Gov. Perry has left so much fat on the bone. Has he not had his eye on spending throughout his tenure? ”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/277072/katrina-trinko-perry-spending-record-reihan-salam

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  346. “[Rick] Perry has long promoted the state’s fiscal record as a model for the country and a key to why Texas has weathered the recession better than most other states. He has opposed new taxes and been vehemently anti-Washington, and his message is drawing interest among Republican primary voters nationwide.

    Yet before the latest one, the Texas budget had consistently grown during Perry’s time as governor, with total spending rising faster than inflation and population growth, state data show.

    What’s more, spending through 2011, adjusted for population and inflation, rose more on average while Perry has been in charge than it did under his predecessor, George W. Bush, according to a Star-Telegram analysis.

    In the past, Perry has criticized Bush for not controlling spending while governor.

    “Let me tell you something,” Perry told a small group of Iowa Republicans in 2007 while campaigning for former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who was running for president. “George Bush was never a fiscal conservative. … I mean, ’95, ’97, ’99, George Bush was spending money.”

    When Bush was governor, total state spending rose 13.3 percent every two years on average. Adjusting the figures for population growth and inflation, that growth rate was 2.3 percent.

    Perry took the reins in December 2000. From then until 2011, spending increased an average of 16.8 percent every two years. Once adjusted for population and inflation, that rate falls to 4.2 percent. Adjusted spending figures in the just-passed 2012-13 budget are not yet available.

    If Perry runs for president, his fiscal record in Texas is sure to draw more scrutiny, just as it did for Bush.

    In the final months of the 2000 presidential election, then-Vice President Al Gore pointed to the growth of the Texas budget under Bush to argue that he and President Bill Clinton had more experience at reducing the size of government.

    Perry’s office and some budget experts say the entire state budget is not a fair gauge of a governor’s fiscal record, since portions such as federal funding are not under his direct purview.

    “Lawmakers and the governor have no control over that,” Perry spokeswoman Catherine Frazier said.

    Fed largely by state taxes and fees, general revenue has typically made up roughly half the Texas budget. It’s the part of the budget that lawmakers spend most of their time arguing over during legislative sessions. Much of the rest of the budget is tied by provisions in federal law and the Texas Constitution.

    When general revenue spending is examined by itself, the trends match better with the fiscal conservative image that Perry promotes. Though general revenue spending has grown with nearly every budget since Perry took office, it actually fell over the last decade an average of 0.6 percent every two years once those numbers are adjusted for inflation and the state’s booming population growth. It rose during Bush’s tenure.

    “Obviously fiscal restraint is always something the governor has made a priority,” Frazier said. “He’s the only Texas governor since World War II that has cut general revenue spending.”

    That distinction is one that Perry has touted repeatedly in recent years, from campaign commercials to the biography on the governor’s office website.

    Mike Hailey, who runs the Austin political site Capitol Inside and served as Lt. Gov. Bob Bullock’s press secretary, said that general revenue spending is “a more telling gauge” of a governor’s fiscal record but that the rest of the budget is relevant as well.

    He also noted that the Legislature chose to accept billions in federal stimulus money in 2009, which temporarily pumped up spending.”

    Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/07/16/3225809/texas-spending-kept-rising-for.html#ixzz1aZ65MdZs

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  347. Haiku, I realize you aren’t reading all these articles you’re copying and pasting into the thread, but your 355 actually proves I was correct, and you were incorrect in your claim in comment 75 that Perry didn’t make cuts to education.

    Do you realize that?

    You claimed the point I was making was untrue, but you seem to know it’s actually true.

    Why?

    And the idea Perry hasn’t been conservative on spending because he cut spending (why didn’t he cut it sooner?!?!?!) is just plain asinine.

    Sure, it would be great of Perry accomplished everything on day one, I guess.

    I’m guessing there’s absolutely nothing Perry can do right by your source, David Brooks lackey Reihan Salam, whom I recall is a contributor to Bill Maher and NPR. They are actually criticizing Perry for not cutting education funding sooner?

    Oh, but I know Salam’s politics. He doesn’t actually support Perry’s spending cut at all. He thinks the GOP is at an evolutionary dead end and should adopt the policies of GA Cohen (a marxist) to give goodies to the poor in order to win power.

    Haiku, your argument isn’t making any sense.

    In fact, as far as I can tell, your 355 combined with your 75 prove you are dishonest. And it also shows that Daleyrocks is either an idiot or he is also dishonest.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  348. “Though state lawmakers could confront a projected revenue shortfall of more than $11 billion when they come into session in January, Gov. Rick Perry rejects “the idea that Texas is going to hell in a hand basket.”

    Been there, done that when the state closed a similar gulf in 2003 and cut “$10 billion out of the entire budget,” Perry said in an April 15 interview with the online Texas Tribune and Newsweek magazine.

    “Yet,” Perry said, “we put $1.8 billion more into public education. We put $800 million more into health and human services.”

    That’s some triple play: $10 billion in budget cuts while pumping an additional $2.6 billion into schools and health and human services. Are those numbers on the money?

    Perry has talked up those cut-and-spend results before, although the spending totals he floated were lower. In a June 2003 opinion piece sent newspapers, for instance, Perry wrote that despite the “tough budgetary times, we increased spending on vital health care programs by $1.1 billion and on public education by $1.2 billion.”

    Let’s start with the budget cuts he proclaims in the Tribune interview.

    Catherine Frazier, a spokeswoman for Perry’s re-election campaign, told us Perry was referring to closing the $10 billion revenue shortfall that Texas faced in 2003 — “not literally cutting those funds from the budget.”

    In January 2003, lawmakers started the legislative session in a ditch after State Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn issued a grim forecast, saying state revenues for the 2004-2005 budget period would fall short of estimated expenditures by $7.4 billion. Add looming expenses — a health plan for local school district employees plus projected health and human services needs — and the state was facing a $9.9 billion state revenue shortfall, Strayhorn said.

    To cover the projected shortfall in the months remaining in the 2003 fiscal year, the Legislature trimmed $1.4 billion in budgeted state spending, while spending $450 million from the rainy day fund.

    Lawmakers also passed a 2004-2005 budget that appropriated $1.8 billion less in state funds than had been spent during 2002-03, according to the Fiscal Size-up published by the Legislative Budget Board, which advises legislators on state spending. They added $811 million from the rainy day fund. And they used $1.3 billion in federal aid, part of fiscal relief made available to states in response to economic difficulties in the wake of Sept. 11, 2001.

    Other steps: Members voted to extend a tax on telephone customers originally levied to pay for technology in schools and hospitals, raise fees for certain state services and use creative accounting to defer state payments to the next budget period..

    So, the Legislature closed the $10 billion shortfall in 2003 via various mechanisms. Their cuts in state spending totaled $3.2 billion.

    Next, let’s look at whether the 2004-2005 budget gave additional aid to public schools ($1.8 billion) and health and human services ($800 million), as Perry says.

    Frazier noted that the state ended up spending $34.8 billion on public education in 2004-05, up $1.9 billion from 2002-03, according to the Fiscal Size-up.

    Unsaid: the 2004-05 budget signed into law by Perry in 2003 only provided for an $893 million increase in public education spending. The additional $1 billion he touts wasn’t available when the Legislature was balancing that budget — it came from supplemental appropriations and additional federal aid doled out by the 2005 Legislature.

    Another wrinkle: State funds don’t account for any of the $893 million increase that Perry mentions. In fact, the 2004-05 budget cut state expenditures on public schools by $1 billion. According to the Fiscal Size-up, the budget made up for that cut (and more) thanks to a $1.3 billion infusion of federal education aid.

    Next, let’s look at health and human services.

    Frazier pointed out that overall spending on health and human services increased by $1.3 billion in the 2004-2005 budget, according to the Fiscal Size-up, which is more than what Perry said in his recent interview. Some 77 percent of that increase was federal funds (for items like Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program). According to the Fiscal Size-up, lawmakers appropriated $6.8 million less in state funds for health and human services than was spent in the 2002-2003 budget.

    Whew. Where does this leave Perry’s recent statement?

    As Perry’s campaign notes, Perry did not sign off on $10 billion in budget cuts in 2003, contrary to what he said in April. All in all, the Legislature trimmed $3.2 billion in total spending for the 2004-2005 budget cycle, counting $1.4 billion cut from the 2003 budget.

    What about Perry’s claims about boosting the budget for education and health and human services together by $2.6 billion? We find that total funding in those categories in the 2004-05 budget increased by $893 million and $1.3 billion, respectively — not quite what Perry claims. Federal funds fueled the increases, enabling lawmakers to appropriate $1 billion less in state money to public education and $6.8 million less to health and human services.

    We rate Perry’s statement as Barely True.”

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=14&ved=0CDkQFjADOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politifact.com%2Ftexas%2Fstatements%2F2010%2Fmay%2F05%2Frick-perry%2Fgov-rick-perry-says-2003-texas-cut-10-billion-budg%2F&rct=j&q=did%20rick%20perry%20cut%20spending%20in%20texas&ei=7XWVTseOO-fjiAKIrcSCBQ&usg=AFQjCNHPjtEPgKHTPXEUtgicPXP6UIch6w&cad=rja

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  349. Yet before the latest one, the Texas budget had consistently grown during Perry’s time as governor, with total spending rising faster than inflation and population growth, state data show.

    Proven false.

    And according to the latest updates of budgeted spending, spending from all sources increased 86 percent over the years analyzed by the group, 21 percent once population growth and inflation are counted. Budgeted spending the governormost affected, of state general revenue, went up 44 percent, though that decreased 6 percent once inflation and population growth are weighed.

    We rate the statement Mostly False.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  350. Someone actually quoted someone from that crook Bob Bullocks office?

    I’vee seen it all

    EricPWJohnson (d84fb0)

  351. Haiku resorts to filibustering, because he knows he just proved he is a liar.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  352. “The latest GOP presidential contender has started running with the wind at his back. Unlike most other candidates—including President Obama—Texas Gov. Rick Perry can claim a measure of economic success over the last several years. Texas has bucked some dispiriting national trends, with an unemployment rate that’s lower than the national average and an economy that has held up relatively well during the devastating downturn. Perry’s mission is to convince voters that if elected, he can replicate the “Texas Miracle” on a national scale.

    But like most things in politics, the details of Perry’s record during more than a decade as governor of Texas aren’t as convincing as the sound bites. In fact, as voters, campaign contributors and key interest groups scour his record, they may notice that he’s not the small-government conservative they want him to be, and that his economic policies are somewhat airy. Here are four economic vulnerabilities Perry will have to overcome to earn the Republican nomination:

    He’s a big beneficiary of big-government. Perry’s No. 1 talking point as a presidential candidate is job creation in Texas. He claims correctly that Texas has created more than one-third of all jobs in the country since the economic recovery began in mid-2009. What he doesn’t mention is that virtually all of that job creation was in government, not in private industry.

    Here are the numbers, which come from the federal government’s Bureau of Labor Statistics: Between the beginning of 2008 and the end of 2010 (the latest data available), Texas created about 75,000 jobs. That makes it one of the few states with any job creation at all over that time. But federal, state and local government hiring accounted for 115,000 new jobs in Texas, while private industry shed about 40,000 jobs. The private sector has definitely held up much better in Texas than it has elsewhere. Since 2008, private-sector employment has shrunk by 6.6 percent nationally, but only by 0.5 percent in Texas. Still, Perry can’t credibly claim that private industry has been responsible for job growth in Texas, since it has actually shed jobs.

    Perry and his state have also benefited significantly from the kind of federal spending he’s now trashing as a presidential candidate hoping to appeal to conservative Republicans. Federal spending in Texas amounts to more than $200 billion per year, according to the New York Times, on account of several big Army bases, a heavy NASA presence, and other federal installations. That’s about 5.2 percent of all federal spending. Texas also accepted $6.4 billion in federal funds from the unpopular 2009 stimulus program championed by President Obama, according to the Washington Post. There’s nothing wrong with Texas or any state getting its share of funding from Washington. The problem for Perry is that the facts don’t support the small-government credentials he’s now trying to establish.

    The “Texas Miracle” is unraveling. Texas has been able to delay the kinds of sharp cutbacks in government payrolls and services that most other states have been forced to undertake, partly because of a strong energy sector that helped sustain the state’s tax revenues during the early part of the recession. But Texas now seems poised for steep cuts in government services, just like many other strapped states. In fiscal 2011, for example, Texas increased spending by 15.4 percent, the biggest hike among all 50 states, according to the National Association of State Budget Officers. But in fiscal 2012, which begins in September, Texas will cut spending by 8.5 percent, which will be the second biggest cut of any state, after Nevada. As in other states, the biggest cuts in Texas are slated for education and healthcare. Texas is also pushing off several big problems until 2013, which means more spending cuts are probably on the way. That could help Perry burnish his small-government cred, but it will almost certainly entail job cuts too—and make the Texas Miracle look a lot less miraculous by this time next year.

    What’s good for Texas is bad for America’s drivers. When oil and gas prices rise, the Texas economy gets a big boost. According to the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas, every 10 percent rise in oil prices boosts annual economic output in Texas by half a percentage point, and employment by 0.36 percentage points. Texas isn’t nearly as dependent on energy as it was in the 1980s, when a sharp energy bust sent the state into a deep recession. But the state has clearly benefited from rising oil prices that have pushed gas prices well over $3 per gallon and caused distress for many American families.

    Since Perry became governor in 2000, oil prices have tripled, rising from about $30 per barrel to roughly $90 today. Not surprisingly, that coincides with a Texas economy that has outperformed the national one for the last decade. Again, there’s nothing wrong with Texas or any state profiting from worldwide economic trends. But Perry can’t exactly boast about an economy that has boomed at the expense of ordinary drivers. And if the recent drop in oil prices sticks, it will detract from the Texas economy and further undermine the gains that Perry is campaigning on now.

    He sounds clueless about monetary policy. Perry’s first pronouncement on the Federal Reserve as a presidential candidate was a convoluted mouthful of economically illiterate posturing. When asked his opinion of the Fed, Perry said of chairman Ben Bernanke, “If this guy prints more money between now and the election … we would treat him pretty ugly down in Texas. Printing more money to play politics at this particular time in American history is almost treacherous—or treasonous.” To Tea Partyers and government-bashers, Perry’s jabs at the Fed might sound like a welcome challenge to an omnipotent federal agency that routinely manipulates the economy. But if Perry wants to be taken seriously by business leaders and investors—who control a wee bit of the campaign money he’ll no doubt be asking for—he might want to take a crash course on the Fed and monetary policy.

    Most economists feel that the Fed’s aggressive intervention in the economy since 2008 has been a necessary evil that helped prevent a financial panic and a full-blown depression. Maybe that’s the sort of mayhem they welcome “down in Texas,” but most businesses would rather retain access to credit, be able to count on a stable economic environment, and have customers who are willing to spend because they’re not worried about looming calamity. The Fed has in fact conducted the modern equivalent of “printing money,” but it has done so in a way that hasn’t yet produced the runaway inflation that Fed bashers have been warning about for years. The Fed has also helped boost stock prices and restore some of the household wealth lost since the recession began. Is Perry opposed to that? And is he opposed to the increased consumer and business spending that higher stock prices have generated?

    The Fed is also the only part of the government that seems capable of doing anything at all to help the economy, since every other part of Washington is paralyzed by political dysfunction. Maybe Perry would like to hogtie the Federal Reserve too, and let the economy thrash around on its own. That’s basically what has been happening since the Fed’s latest stimulus program ended on June 30—while Americans, meanwhile, have become profoundly upset with the direction of the economy and more disgusted with Washington than ever. If Rick Perry intends to present himself as an antidote to that, he still has a lot of work to do.”

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=20&ved=0CGkQFjAJOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usnews.com%2Fnews%2Fblogs%2Frick-newman%2F2011%2F08%2F16%2Frick-perrys-4-economic-vulnerabilities&rct=j&q=did%20rick%20perry%20cut%20spending%20in%20texas&ei=7XWVTseOO-fjiAKIrcSCBQ&usg=AFQjCNFLyIjBXVYk6INNN2JXAk-N1vSDoA&cad=rja

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  353. Ah, I quoted the wrong section.

    Spending from state general revenue rose 44 percent, though that was actually down 6 percent in 2010 from 2000 when adjusted for inflation and population growth

    Same link as above. Haiku actually knows this already. He knows that Perry’s actually cut spending.

    He resorts to a democrat who ignores that the dollar has inflated by about double since Perry’s first of many successful terms.

    That’s how Haiku ‘proves’ I am dishonest to call Perry conservative? Because in real dollars he cut spending?

    All that proves is the cut of Haiku’s cloth.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  354. “Keep in mind that Gov. Perry has been forced to make deep cuts in K-12 spending in the last budget cycle, and across the board. Having been in power for over a decade, one has to wonder why Gov. Perry has left so much fat on the bone. Has he not had his eye on spending throughout his tenure?”

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  355. As I said, Perry ain’t as good as you make him out to be, Dustin.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  356. Haiku is now simply pasting 100% of copyrighted articles.

    Just because he lost the argument and now wants to destroy the thread with spam.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  357. Dustin… again you use a straw man… I never said Perry wasn’t a conservative and I never said you were dishonest calling him a conservative.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  358. As I said, Perry ain’t as good as you make him out to be, Dustin.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 4:26 am

    Liar. He is exactly what I claimed he was.

    You say he’s not conservative because when the state had a budget shortfall he was ‘forced to cut spending’ instead of what?

    INSTEAD OF WHAT? Run a deficit, or raise taxes, or raid savings.

    That’s it.

    In what way does this show you were correct in comment 75? You specifically said it was untrue that Perry cut education funding. Daleyrocks, in pathetic fashion, tried to defend you by saying these cuts weren’t real yet.

    You, however, are not saying they really happened but somehow Perry screwed up because … Texas faced a recession? Yeah, the whole country did.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  359. I included the links, Dustin. Stop trying to look like a liberal hero who vanquished his enemy. It makes you look silly. Have a splendid Wednesday.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  360. Dustin… again you use a straw man… I never said Perry wasn’t a conservative and I never said you were dishonest calling him a conservative.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku

    What in the hell are you talking about?

    You’re just spouting nonsense.

    You said I was a liar when I said Perry cut education spending. I asked you to back that up. You said you would today. Then you posted proof YOU were dishonest.

    Now you’re trying to lie about what we’re arguing over.

    The fact is that you’re very dishonest, Haiku.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  361. so… in your mind being forced to do something is equal to doing something of your own volition?

    That’s priceless.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  362. Perry has a mixed record, although it leans to the good, as opposed to bad… just as Romney’s does. Perry’s mortal, Dustin. Deal with it.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  363. For example, he’s cut spending even when it’s very politically difficult, such as a cut to education. Very few state level politicians do it.

    You quoted that and said

    Sheesh, Dustin… how many times does daley have to put a spotlight on where and why you are wrong and – I’ll say it – dishonest about that?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/11/2011 @ 6:00 pm

    Daley never did. and you never did. Because Perry really did cut education funding when it had to be done. All you’ve got now is whining that Perry should have done it sooner, while admitting he did actually do precisely what I said he did?

    You’re saying I’m dishonest, but you’re admitting I told the truth while saying ‘but perry ain’t as good as what you make him out to be’. What is that? It’s just your opinion vs my opinion, and you can’t say someone is lying about that sort of thing.

    You’re not man enough to admit you were wrong, so you want to rephrase what you said. Now it’s not that I lied about a specific action. It’s that Perry just ain’t as good as I think he is? That’s pathetic.

    You and Mitt lack personal character. That’s why you look like a classless clown spamming a thread.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  364. Since Haiku likes to spam the thread, I’ll do it too.

    Mitt Romney is cruel to his own dog.

    Romney strapped a dog carrier — with the family dog Seamus, an Irish Setter, in it — to the roof of the family station wagon for a twelve hour drive from Boston to Ontario, which the family apparently completed, despite Seamus’s rather visceral protest.

    Massachusetts’s animal cruelty laws specifically prohibit anyone from carrying an animal “in or upon a vehicle, or otherwise, in an unnecessarily cruel or inhuman manner or in a way and manner which might endanger the animal carried thereon.”

    [...]

    Stacey Wolf, attorney and legislative director for the ASPCA, said “even if it turns out to not be against the law at the time, in the district, we’d hope that people would use common sense…Any manner of transporting a dog that places the animal in serious danger is something that we’d think is inappropriate…I can’t speak to the accuracy of the case, but it raises concerns about the judgment used in this particular situation.”

    Mitt Romney attended a fund raiser for Planned Parenthood. Out of his joint checking account Planned Parenthood collected money to abort an innocent human being.

    And my favorite Romney link is just Romney talking.

    This one gets much better at the end, when Romney is asked to discuss any flaws he has, and then goes on and on about how good Romney is to his fellow man until the crowd bursts into laughter at how pathetic this conceited con man is.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  365. Praising somebody for doing something that he or she was forced to do is weak, Dustin. i used posts that gave balanced views of Perry’s record and his motivation. You choose to flounce and mince about. That ain’t the Texas way… or is it?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  366. Hmmm… mincing? check… flouncing? check… you may be a closet liberal.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  367. Praising somebody for doing something that he or she was forced to do is weak, Dustin

    You moron.

    Perry did not have to cut education spending. He could have raided the rainy day fund or had a tax increase or any number of other things.

    Forced is a ridiculous claim, as it was a very controversial decision requiring a veto threat.

    Yeah, the economy went sour, even for Texas, and we had a budget shortfall that was difficult to solve. Many wanted taxes, and many wanted the rainy day fund spent, and Perry instead wanted to cut spending across the board because that is what conservatives do.

    You have obviously lost this argument. Your specific personal attack on my character in comment 75 is plainly wrong and you plainly know that yet are not man enough to just admit you were mistaken.

    i used posts that gave balanced views of Perry’s record

    No, I already explained that specific claim was far from balanced. Try to keep up. Your balanced sources have labeled Perry a eugenicist in a secret society and also claimed the GOP should adopt marxism.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  368. maybe before you was a conservative or before was before a liberal before you was.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  369. Hmmm… mincing? check… flouncing? check… you may be a closet liberal.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 4:45 am

    You’re the guy supporting Romney, the liberal, and I’m the supporting Perry, who you agree is conservative.

    The best you can do is find some source claiming that what Perry did against tremendous pressure is something he can’t get credit for because the left claims he was forced?

    Forced by what, specifically? What do you think democrats think has forced the budget to stay low?

    Here’s a hint. It rhymes with low taxes.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  370. No, I already explained that specific claim was far from balanced. Try to keep up. Your balanced sources have labeled Perry a eugenicist in a secret society and also claimed the GOP should adopt marxism.

    Stay on point, doggie. The posts and links I’ve used this morning are from decent sources. You don’t like them or find them to your liking, so be it.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  371. maybe before you was a conservative or before was before a liberal before you was.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 4:48 am

    I know you think you can just laugh off your lack of personal character, and that you don’t even care that Mitt Romney lies to your face, but I don’t think it’s funny.

    I thought we were treating eachother with some respect here until you started the personal attacks.

    All I want to do is compare the candidates in good faith. That is clearly not what you want to do. When you whine about spinning and distortion, it seems you’re either talking about direct quotes or plain provable facts, and you resort to leftists and editorials for all your ‘facts’.

    You really should just humble yourself and admit you know I wasn’t being dishonest to claim Perry cut education spending. Do you even care?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  372. Here’s one of my favorite Perry moments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuyKVzwg8QE&feature=related

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  373. The posts and links I’ve used this morning are from decent sources. You don’t like them or find them to your liking, so be it.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 4:52 am

    Yeah, a Bill Maher source who says the GOP is dead unless it gives goodies to poor people is not a decent unbiased source.

    Bob Bullock is not an unbiased source, and I specifically refuted his claim because it is literally the opposite of the truth.

    I haven’t read all your sources, I admit. You are just pasting entire copyrighted articles into the comment section, and much of them just appear to be rants.

    I doubt anyone is reading them.

    If you disagree with Haiku’s POV, rally behind Rick Perry and donate $20 to his campaign today.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  374. Have a good day, genius.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  375. Because Perry really did cut education funding when it had to be done.

    Filed under “Profiles in Courage”.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  376. Genius is far far from what I am or aspire to, but I’m not a dumb person either.

    I’m also not perfect and some of the things I’ll argue will turn out to be wrong. When that happens, I am man enough to admit it.

    I doubt you are any dumber than I am, Haiku, more or less, but you are lesser because you have never learned the value of personal character. I suspect that’s why you support Mitt Romney.

    “Senator Murkowski has been a strong voice in the United States Senate for confronting the long-term economic challenges confronting her state and our nation today,” said Romney in a statement.

    Global warmist and cap and tax Mitt has the same problem failing to recognize character.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  377. Filed under “Profiles in Courage”.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 5:02 am

    Yes. Absolutely. Cutting education spending is something most politicians simply won’t do merely because they would otherwise have a deficit or raise taxes.

    It is a sacred cow. You know I’m right.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  378. “I thought Gov. Romney’s the better candidate, and I think he’ll make the better president. I know Rick Perry, and I like him as a person.”

    - Governor Chris Christie

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  379. Haiku, I suspect all of Romney’s honest supporters also like Perry, because Perry’s a great leader. Thanks for proving another of my points.

    I know you get mad when I point this out, but you can’t help but show how I’m right.

    I think most Perry supporters can’t stand Romney, yet most Romney fans would be happy to vote for Perry.

    Perry has the broader potential base in a general election.

    The only group Romney has over Perry are those who want entitlement goodies, and they are voting for Obama anyway.

    Christie is more similar to Romney on politics. I believe they both believe global warming and neither really respect the second amendment very much. I am not surprised that just about all establishment Republicans, especially those seeking the same guys financing Romney, will endorse Romney.

    But will they have an argument too?

    Not really. We all know that without entitlement reform, this country is insolvent. Only an idiot who ignores everything Romney’s been saying would think Romney is going to do anything about it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  380. And the blind hero worship continuesszzzzzz…

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  381. *Jon.*Huntsman.*

    tifosa (05e2bd)

  382. Even Huntsman would be a better president than that fool you support, tiflossa.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  383. Barack “Big Zero” Obama wanted to apologize for Hiroshima, but Japan declined.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/279867/obama-wanted-apologize-hiroshima-jonah-goldberg

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  384. actually Romney/Christie may be unbeatable. Lot of people willing to vote against their best interest

    tifosa (05e2bd)

  385. As to Romney; the MSM will again carry Obama’s water. It’s hard to see how statist light/big government is going to best real statism.The MSM is going to hang Romneycare around his neck like a milestone.And the layoff business that Bain Capital really is is not going to look very good.

    May be Obama has shown himself to be so incompetent it won’t matter. But he has 47% of the electorate with their hands out, paying nothing, locked up. And NY, NJ, California, Mass.(even with Romney!)Illinois, Delaware, Conn., DC, Washingotn state and Minn. locked up as well.

    I will pull the level for Romney, but I’m really tired of the tongue-tied hacks we seem to get stuck with every 4 years. Not defending refusing to so vote, but I understand it.

    Bugg (9e308e)

  386. I will pull the level for Romney, but I’m really tired of the tongue-tied hacks we seem to get stuck with every 4 years. Not defending refusing to so vote, but I understand it.

    As I understand the actions of the Japanese in Okinama during the last days of WWII.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  387. Granted, Perry was in a place where you need to govern like a rightie, and Romney was in a place where righties can hardly even get elected. I don’t understand how this excuses Romney’s leadership unless you are admitting Romney is insincere in how he leads, just doing what furthers his career.

    I think it could be argued that enacting a center-right agenda in a state like Mass. is more difficult than enacting a conservative agenda in Texas, and that Romney has therefore demonstrated success at the more challenging task.

    aphrael (5d993c)

  388. As I understand the actions of the Japanese in Okinama Okinawa during the last days of WWII.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  389. that’s an excellent point, aphrael.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  390. Finally tifosa says something I agree with.

    And the DS have a majority in congress now so they can pass things to improve the economy which Obama made worse by continuing Bushs banksta bailouts.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  391. Ds*

    Btw the Ds won’t improve the economy useful idiots.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  392. “I’m also not perfect and some of the things I’ll argue will turn out to be wrong. When that happens, I am man enough to admit it.”

    Bulldookey.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  393. So let me get this straight Obama is continuing Bush’s bailouts and yet the left insist he is trying ot clean up the mess bush left him?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  394. Dustin – Will you trade Perry speaking at La Raza for Romney speaking at Planned Parenthood?

    I’m not sure I would be crapping all over links when you were lapping up Michael Isikoff stories yesterday.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  395. Rush Limbaugh says establishment Republicans and Democrats agree Romney is the best GOP candidate. They may be right but I worry when most of DC agrees on something.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  396. DRJ – I thought Democrats wanted to run against Perry because he would be easier for them to beat. That explains them playing up the stories that Obama hired nonpolitical advisers who worked on Romney’s health plan to work on ObamaCare, hoping it would trash Romney’s campaign.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  397. I think it could be argued that enacting a center-right agenda in a state like Mass. is more difficult than enacting a conservative agenda in Texas, and that Romney has therefore demonstrated success at the more challenging task.

    Comment by aphrael — 10/12/2011 @ 7:41 am

    No. Firstly because Romney did not succeed.

    Secondly, he governed much more to the left than Perry did. If you’re saying the reason is that he had no choice because that’s the only way to govern in MA, you’re saying Romney is insincere, only governing as the polls tell him do rather than how he thinks is correct.

    Romney chose to move to MA and start his political career there banning guns and supporting abortion and increasing regulations, entitlements, and spending. He simply is more liberal.

    Romney was unable to finish his term without being so unpopular he didn’t bother running for reelection. He lost two out of three elections. His states record on job creation was the worst or nearly the worst in the country.

    Perry was much more successful. Granted, he was in a state that has a much more correct view of politics (from my point of view), but Perry surviving there, winning every election he’s run in, and have a tremendously good record on jobs and spending, is simply much more success than Romney had in office.

    Perry wouldn’t have been electable in MA, nor Romney in TX.

    Romney made MA more liberal. Gun registrations plummeted because of his huge gun tax. The state has lost $8 billion on Romneycare, and has less freedom. MA was left with a 1.3 billion budget gap because of Romney’s spending hikes which Romney proposed himself, and Texas has balanced budget because of spending cuts.

    The idea he was a conservative fighting in a much harder blue state is simply Romney’s excuse for what is a very, very liberal point of view he has simply flip flopped on from head to toe.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  398. ==I think most Perry supporters can’t stand Romney, yet most Romney fans would be happy to vote for Perry==

    That is a profound statement. But perhaps not quite in the way the author intended.

    I think it says much more about the supporters, than the candidates themselves. It says more about the urgency people should be feeling about getting Obama out of the WH. It identifies the people who will willingly support the eventual 2012 Republican nominee (whoever it is) because that person is not Obama. It identifies those who fully understand that there is in fact a huge difference between having either a conservative or moderate Republican instead of a radical Progressive in the Executive Branch. I haven’t counted, but my perception is that over the last few months quite a few more commenters here have said they’d never under any circumstances vote for Romney than has been the reverse. In fact I can’t remember having seen any Romney supporters say they’d stay home next Nov. rather than vote for Perry. I say let the nationally strongest R candidate win and then let’s stand with him and vote for him against Obama.

    Beldar posted some very important points in this thread directed at the boycott Romney crowd. A hope at least some of them take his words to heart.

    elissa (3567ea)

  399. Muslims and Nazis are one in the same.

    Obama is a POS.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  400. The occupy wall street protesters are anti-wall street

    DohBiden (d54602)

  401. ______________________________________________

    Barack “Big Zero” Obama wanted to apologize for Hiroshima, but Japan declined.

    An ultra-liberal like Obama is the epitome of ass-backwardness when it comes to judging the good and bad in situations and people?! Hardly surprising. Besides, when Obama met the Emperor of Japan awhile back and bowed like a servant in front of him, I was pretty sure Jeremiah Wright’s friend did that with full conviction — 100% on purpose and 100% happily — for the pure symbolism of the moment.

    powerlineblog.com: Over the last couple of weeks several Japanese newspapers have been all over a new Wikileak that so far has not made much of an impression anywhere in American media. (I know: This is a surprise?) It seems that Obama wanted to include stops at Hiroshima and Nagasaki as part of his 2009 World Apology Tour, so that he could apologize for Harry Truman dropping the Big One to end World War II.

    One problem for The One: Japan was not amused by this idea. The U.S. embassy in Tokyo cabled Hillary Clinton to suggest with typically gentle diplomatic language that what Obama was proposing would be deeply offensive to Japanese.

    ^ Even the Japanese apparently sensed what a cheap, exploitative tactic it would be if bow-like-a-servant Obama soothed his foolish, if not deranged, leftist biases in public.

    Mark (411533)

  402. “Romney chose to move to MA and start his political career there banning guns”

    Dustin – Link please and how about an answer finally on whether gun rights groups supported the legislation.

    “Romney was unable to finish his term without being so unpopular he didn’t bother running for reelection”

    Dustin – Is this a valid criticism for a Republican in a blue state or a badge of honor that he was doing the right job?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  403. “Romney made MA more liberal. Gun registrations plummeted because of his huge gun tax.”

    Dustin – I already supplied a link which countered this argument.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  404. Obama is not to blame for the recession Bushs banksta bailouts are to blame Obama is cleaning up Bushs recessions by continuing the banksta bailouts orchestrated by Bush.

    Libs if Palin or Bachmann run in 2016 please stay true to your word and jump off a bridge.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  405. Gotta love leftys blaming the recession on something bush did but Obama is cleaning up the recession by continuing the Banksta bailouts.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  406. “Romney made MA more liberal.”

    Dustin – More liberal than what? What is your frame of reference? More liberal than a Democrat governor would have made the state? You must be joking. More liberal than Texas? It already was?

    What provable relevant point do you claim to be making with this silly statement without defining your terms.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  407. _____________________________________________

    there is in fact a huge difference between having either a conservative or moderate Republican instead of a radical Progressive in the Executive Branch.

    One probably would have to be an ultra-conservative to disagree with that conclusion. Beyond that, both Romney and Perry do have flaws — or signs of squishiness (or “centrism”) — in their history. I can understand why that will make some people leery about such candidates (I know I am), but desperate times call for desperate measures—or adjusting one’s own preferences.

    Moreover, because of the shortcomings of Romney and Perry (or the other Republican candidates, for that matter), I feel like a bystander when I see people — unless they’re of the left and plan to vote for Obama next year — arguing strongly either in favor or against the contenders.

    Mark (411533)

  408. In fact I can’t remember having seen any Romney supporters say they’d stay home next Nov. rather than vote for Perry. I say let the nationally strongest R candidate win and then let’s stand with him and vote for him against Obama.

    But apart from just trying to judge people, this is something to consider. Romney is inferior at holding the tent together.

    think it says much more about the supporters, than the candidates themselves. It says more about the urgency people should be feeling about getting Obama out of the WH.

    What our urgency to save this country from unfunded entitlements? Only an idiot thinks Romney will reform entitlements. You have to ignore most of what he’s saying on the topic.

    And that alone is the biggest fiscal crime this country is committing against our own kids. It’s why pundits use the term fiscal pedophiles against Romney and Reid and Pelosi.

    So is that to be dismissed on partisan grounds?

    I do agree with Elissa that we need to rally behind the GOP nominee, but my point isn’t to moralize and beg people to do what we all know they some aren’t going to do. It’s simply to recognize this fact. Romney fans will support anybody with an R, so they will be there if we nominate someone conservative.

    Dustin – Is this a valid criticism for a Republican in a blue state or a badge of honor that he was doing the right job?

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Did he do the right job, daleyrocks? No.

    He failed. The only thing that went well in Romney’s term was that the entire nation’s economy was in boom from 2003 to 2007, and so MA took in far more tax revenue. On policy, MA was spending more, taxing more, and regulating more. This simply isn’t the right way to govern, from a conservative point of view.

    Dustin – Link please and how about an answer finally on whether gun rights groups supported the legislation.

    What kind of stupid request is that?

    He banned guns, and he increased the gun tax. You think people can’t decide for themselves? They need to obey the rulings of the NRA? The NRA gave Romney a lower rating than it did his democrat opponent for Governor. Romney was to the left of the democrats on this.

    However, I think the NRA can be very unreliable on this kind of matter. Why would I need to rely on them, though? Mitt did ban some guns and he did increase the tax on all the rest of them. Those are facts, and you’re spinning, Romney shill.

    Anyway, I’ve answered this many times before, and you’re pretending I haven’t.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  409. Why doesn’t herr Krugman pay more in taxes?

    Why don’t the OWS dousches protest him.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  410. Beyond that, both Romney and Perry do have flaws — or signs of squishiness (or “centrism”) — in their history.

    I think it’s pretty crazy to equivocate between their records. Twelve years of balanced budgets and many spending cuts versus 3 years of spending hikes.

    Dustin – More liberal than what? What is your frame of reference? More liberal than a Democrat governor would have made the state? You must be joking. More liberal than Texas? It already was?

    What provable relevant point do you claim to be making with this silly statement without defining your terms.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/12/2011 @ 10:02 am

    This is just sophistry. MA after Romney was more liberal than it was when Romney took power. It had less gun registration, more taxes, more spending, more regulation, and even Romneycare.

    Romney made MA more liberal. You know what I mean.

    You’re asking me to predict things that aren’t possible, but I do want to note the amazing impact a RINO can have in moving the entire dialogue to the left.

    A Lindsey Graham or an Arlden Specter is more damaging to the right’s causes than a person with the same politics in the democrat party.

    What happens if the GOP’s leader supports health care mandates and increases in entitlement spending OVER Obama for sheer pandering purposes?

    BTW, I’m noticing that you aren’t answering my question. Just replying with silly gotchas that amount to sophistry.

    You can’t defend Romney’s liberalism by asking me to prove Romney was more liberal than a democrat in his shoes would have been.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  411. Mark, do you intend to vote in the primary?

    Since Obama is very far behind in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, and since Obama beat Mccain badly over a dejected GOP in 2008, and more importantly, since beating Obama is not the end goal here, but rather improving this country is, shouldn’t we be talking about which candidate would be a better president?

    There’s only one person I know of who has cut Medicare. That is the president of the United States. He cut it by $500 billion and put it into Obama Care, and I will turn that around. That is wrong,” Romney said. “So when you see your friends with signs that say keep your hands off our Medicare, they are absolutely right. We’ve got to vote that guy out of office.”

    Here’s why Daleyrocks has to play sophists games and issue personal attacks and claim Perry is gay.

    Romney is not willing to repeal Obamacare, and is willing to pander by promising more entitlements (A massive hike in this case).

    How seriously do we take this nation’s spending problem?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  412. Daleyrocks’s point about his preferred gun advocacy groups (he didn’t name them or link them, but strangely demanded I find them) that are OK with banning guns and a $100 gun tax is only another sign of corruption.

    That’s the opposite of gun advocacy.

    “We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts; I support them,” he said during a gubernatorial debate. “I won’t chip away at them; I believe they protect us and provide for our safety.”

    Even worse, Romney signed a law to permanently ban many semi-automatic firearms. “These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense,” Romney said in 2004. “They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.”

    Romney also spoke in favor of the Brady law’s five day waiting period on handguns. The Boston Globe quotes Romney saying, “I don’t think (the waiting period) will have a massive effect on crime but I think it will have a positive effect.”

    The Gun Owners of America claim this proves Romney doesn’t understand the meaning of the second amendment’s ‘shall not be infringed’ language.

    And Romney famously lied about receiving an NRA endorsement, though my understanding is that the NRA endorses a lot of people who aren’t strong on second amendment rights.

    But does this matter? Shouldn’t we be adults and look at Romney’s actual choices and decide if we support him? It’s obvious the establishment guy will have tons of people and organizations endorse him, often because they have no choice as he seems more and more inevitable. So what?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  413. I failed to link the Gun Owners of America. Here.

    Why is it that I keep answering Haiku and Daleyrocks’s questions, but all they do when I ask a question is either ignore it or ask a question?

    They don’t have an explanation for Romney’s comment in 423 promising more entitlement spending than even Obama wants.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  414. “On policy, MA was spending more, taxing more, and regulating more.”

    Dustin – So was Texas, but you just won’t admit it like a big boy. You continue to compare apples to oranges.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  415. Daleyrocks, I have repeatedly shown you that Texas is relatively low tax and low spending and low regulation. And generally, slightly reducing its spending per capita.

    It is not as bad to have minor changes to a great environment than it is to make a very bad environment worst.

    The only real proof I can offer is that businesses are coming to Texas from MA and CA and NY. We have tremendous growth, which Romney noted is key.

    Romney’s choices failed to bring growth even in boom years. Perry’s choices have brought growth.

    Going from spending 45 to 45.1 to 44.9 out of 1000 dollars in Texas is not nearly as bad as Romney’s going from 65 to 66.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  416. btw, I notice you are ignoring my answer to your point, Daleyrocks, proving you wrong on the gun issue.

    You are also ignoring Romney’s promise to increase medicare spending.

    There’s only one person I know of who has cut Medicare. That is the president of the United States. He cut it by $500 billion and put it into Obama Care, and I will turn that around. That is wrong,” Romney said. “So when you see your friends with signs that say keep your hands off our Medicare, they are absolutely right. We’ve got to vote that guy out of office.”

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  417. elissa, I know lots of Perry supporters. Not one of them has said that if Romney takes the nomination, they will not vote for him in the general election. You need to learn that “I think” is not a fact, simply a statement of opinion.

    Romney has been running for president since January, 2007. He’s learned from [some] of his past mistakes but seems to repeat others. His campaign tactic is not much different than it was in 2007, early 2008.

    Is Romney articulate and clean? Yeah. But to say that he governed to the left because Massachussets leans [heavily] left, is no excuse. As a Republican, he had a four year window to show the populace that conservative ways are best and move the state farther into the red column.

    Michael Isikoff’s article yesterday was pretty revealing. Now, I will admit that Isikoff is probably a liberal (who in the media isn’t?) but it did Mitt no good. And to follow that article up with questions about Solamere, which is a scandal that the left will splash all across the front pages of every newpapers in the nation should Romney become the nomination, is not helpful either. Solamere reeks “crony capitalism.”

    Everyone seems so concerned about the debates. Are they concerned about a debate between Obama and Romney and how Romney will respond to Obama when Obama says “Well, Mitt, I know you say you will give waivers to all the states over my health care plan, but it was YOUR plan I implemented?” Game, set, match.

    I don’t think all of us are looking for a captain to our debate team.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  418. Retire, I too and a Perry supporter who has repeatedly answered Haiku’s rigid demands that I be willing to support Romney if he’s the nominee. I am so willing.

    Elissa’s criticism is valid, though. My point isn’t about Perry supporters, but about all supporters of candidates other than Romney. Most of them would vote for Romney, some of them wouldn’t show. Some of them would find a third party appealing.

    While Elissa’s point that that’s stupid of them is 100% my view too… they need to get of Obama, that doesn’t change the reality of it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  419. “Dustin – Link please and how about an answer finally on whether gun rights groups supported the legislation.

    What kind of stupid request is that?

    He banned guns, and he increased the gun tax.”

    Dustin – We all know Romney increased the gun tax, to $75, the legislature tacked on another $25 to make it an even $100. You comment on it about 30 times a thread as if it were the end of the world. You claim it resulted in a precipitous drop in gun registrations in the state. I provided a link that pointed out registrations were up in certain parts of the state and down in others after the fee increase, debunking that claim,and pointing to a 1998 gun control law in the state which prohibited ownership by even those who had a misdemeanor in their backgrounds as having a bigger impact on overall registrations, plus cultural changes in the state. Yet you continue to parrot the same talking point.

    You claimed guns runs groups were lobbying Romney for less restrictive gun laws as if that was an indictment of Romney positions. D’oh! Have you ever seen gun rights groups lobby a governor for more restrictive gun laws?

    My question was designed to get you to think about what you were saying, like the above obvious paragraph. In Massachusetts where you have a large liberal gun grabbing population, did gun rights groups support the legislation that Romney was able to negotiate or not. You obviously had not even researched the question. They did.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  420. “Daleyrocks, I have repeatedly shown you that Texas is relatively low tax and low spending and low regulation. And generally, slightly reducing its spending per capita.”

    Dustin – And you supplied links which showed Romney only made modest increases to spending on a per capita basis as governor of Massachusetts.

    Case closed.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  421. Dustin – DRJ attempted to start a discussion in a new direction. I would much rather have a good faith dialogue with people such as her than have you spamming the thread again with your stale talking points.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  422. Dustin – We all know Romney increased the gun tax, to $75, the legislature tacked on another $25 to make it an even $100. You comment on it about 30 times a thread as if it were the end of the world.

    It’s substantial that people know that Romney and the legislature negotiated in a way that brought gun registration way down and infringed on the right to bear arms.

    Yes, Romney and democrats worked together to strip out basic human rights.

    You want to give Romney credit because did a great conservative in a blue state, but every time I point out that Romney made the state more liberal, you just find some weird way to dismiss it that doesn’t resolve anything.

    having a bigger impact on overall registrations,

    This is sophistry. I can just point to the fact gun registrations in MA plummeted. Fewer people wanted to exercise their rights because Romney wanted a huge ‘fee’.

    And this is just one of many aspects of Romney’s anti gun record. You’re ignoring all the other points.

    Under Romney’s watch, MA grew into a far more liberal state where to own a gun was much more expensive, and you didn’t even have the right to decline health insurance. Your taxes were higher, and your government was bigger. There were more regulations.

    Romney and democrats share blame for this.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  423. Dustin – And you supplied links which showed Romney only made modest increases to spending on a per capita basis as governor of Massachusetts.

    Case closed.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/12/2011 @ 10:39 am

    My link said 10 percent.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  424. Dustin – DRJ attempted to start a discussion in a new direction. I would much rather have a good faith dialogue with people such as her than have you spamming the thread again with your stale talking points.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/12/2011 @ 10:43 am

    You ask a bunch of questions, and I ask a bunch of questions. I answer yours effectively. You ignore my questions entirely.

    Then you announce I’m ‘spamming the thread’, even though it’s your buddy Haiku posting 100% of months old articles to filibuster any point I make.

    You are a coward, Daleyrocks.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  425. There’s only one person I know of who has cut Medicare. That is the president of the United States. He cut it by $500 billion and put it into Obama Care, and I will turn that around. That is wrong,” Romney said. “So when you see your friends with signs that say keep your hands off our Medicare, they are absolutely right. We’ve got to vote that guy out of office.”

    I think this is the point Haiku and Daley are trying to filibuster without addressing.

    Why is Romney promising half a trillion more entitlement spending? Is that the right nominee to pick?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  426. “You are also ignoring Romney’s promise to increase medicare spending.”

    Dustin – I did not know there was a requirement for me to respond to all of your attacks on Romney since he is not my annointed candidate except in your mind.

    Nevertheless, the quote you and retire05 and EPWJ seem laser focused on is a statement made by Romney while visiting a Senior Center in Florida along the lines of “keep my hands of my Medicare.”
    You and others have interpreted that to mean that Romney will never reform the program.

    I don’t think that is a valid conclusion from the context of the comment or other statements he has made of which I am aware. He was talking to seniors. He’s not going to reduce or strip them of coverage. It does not mean he would not support means testing, vouchers,increasing the age for eligibility or other phased in reform measures. That is pure projection in my view from a short comment.

    I would be happy to look at other comments of Mitts if you think they prove otherwise.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  427. According to the U.S. Debt Clock:

    Massachussets:

    Debt to GDP – 25.451%
    Public debt per citizen – $15,006.00
    total state debt – increasing
    Texas:

    Debt to DGP – 18.268%
    Public debt per citizen – $8,298.00
    total state debt – decreasing

    But I am sure Haiku will find a way to defent Massachussets’ rising debt.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  428. “You ignore my questions entirely.”

    WTF?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  429. Dustin – And you supplied links which showed Romney only made modest increases to spending on a per capita basis as governor of Massachusetts.

    Case closed.

    Comment by daleyrocks —

    btw. MA spends 50% per capita than TX does on government, and you are admitting that Romney actually increased spending.

    This is his success? Because a democrat would have done more? I doubt it. Romney got lucky that MA collected enormous cap gains revenue. Clinton also was lucky to govern during a boom. The government kept growing, and the rest of the economy did not grow. Romney was 47 out of 50 states on job creation.

    Texas is creating so many jobs that we have low employment even though we’re importing huge numbers of people from places like MA. Perry’s record is not perfect, but success is its own argument.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  430. argh. 50% more per capita

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  431. “My link said 10 percent.”

    Dustin – Your link said the annual increase in spending under Romney was below population growth and inflation, just as it was for Perry.

    Case closed.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  432. Dustin – I did not know there was a requirement for me to respond to all of your attacks on Romney since he is not my annointed candidate except in your mind.

    I said I was answering your questions and you were ignoring mine.

    And yes, Romney definitely is your candidate. You are just unwilling to admit you favor him, which is hilarious.

    I don’t think that is a valid conclusion from the context of the comment or other statements he has made of which I am aware

    That sounds like another daleyrocks argument. Complexify and obfuscate.

    There’s only one person I know of who has cut Medicare. That is the president of the United States. He cut it by $500 billion and put it into Obama Care, and I will turn that around. That is wrong,” Romney said. “So when you see your friends with signs that say keep your hands off our Medicare, they are absolutely right. We’ve got to vote that guy out of office.”

    So, Romney says that he will turn that around, and that clearly refers to half a trillion in entitlement spending.

    This is not Romney’s only ‘I will help you get your entitlement’ commentary, of course. He’s said much the same on social security and he refuses to fight to repeal Obamacare.

    In fact, you dismissed the fact Romney deleted a passage in his book about Romneycare being a model for the country (with the same obfuscation) and then dismissing the fact Romney’s romneycare advisers met at the White House twelve times to help create Obamacare.

    Romney simply isn’t going to reform entitlements. I agree with Paul Ryan that this is a critical problem facing our country.

    You probably don’t think this is related, but you have also laughed and sneered at how Texas’s balanced budget amendment forced the state to jump through hoops, especially in bad years, to keep to the law. But I think that is indeed the best solution to our spending problem.

    You are constantly shilling against a solution that works in the real world today and is a major reason Texas simply is better off today the other large states.

    We need serious solutions to the spending problem, not debate pizazz.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  433. ==Romney fans will support anybody with an R, so they will be there if we nominate someone conservative==

    Yes. Most Romney fans do seem to be very committed to ABO. What is missing is the same manifesto from many Perry fans that they are equally and as a practical matter ABO.

    ==Romney is inferior at holding the tent together.==

    Once again, as I tried (apparently unsuccessfully) to illustrate in my earlier comment @9:43, this should be seen for exactly what it is: an indictment of some of Perry’s most intransigent supporters who say they’ll refuse to even enter the tent, should Mitt be the one to win the anti-Obama nomination.

    elissa (3567ea)

  434. “Governor Romney’s record on spending must be considered within the liberal political context in which he governed. The Massachusetts Legislature was (and continues to be) dominated by Democrats more interested in raising taxes than cutting government programs. Throughout his tenure, Romney’s proposed cuts were met with opposition while the vast majority of his vetoes were relegated to the graveyard of overrides.

    On balance, his record comes out more positive than negative, especially when one considers that average spending increased only 2.22% over his four years, well below the population plus inflation benchmark of nearly 3%.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  435. Dustin – Your link said the annual increase in spending under Romney was below population growth and inflation, just as it was for Perry.

    Case closed.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/12/2011 @ 10:57 am

    no it didn’t. MA barely had any population growth.

    You’re trying to complexify the obvious again. MA’s was HUGE. Way too big. Far too much regulation. Far bigger than Texas’s.

    Romney made it bigger, and you admitted it.

    Then you said case closed for some reason.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  436. “In fact, you dismissed the fact Romney deleted a passage in his book about Romneycare being a model for the country”

    “You probably don’t think this is related, but you have also laughed and sneered at how Texas’s balanced budget amendment forced the state to jump through hoops”

    Dustin – These matters were well discussed in prior threads, which is exactly why it is EPWJ style spamming to bring them up again.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  437. this should be seen for exactly what it is: an indictment of some of Perry’s most intransigent supporters who say they’ll refuse to even enter the tent, should Mitt be the one to win the anti-Obama nomination.

    Comment by elissa — 10/12/2011 @ 11:02 am

    No, you succeeded there. I agree with that.

    Doesn’t change the fact they exist. Doesn’t change what happened in 1992.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  438. Dustin – These matters were well discussed in prior threads, which is exactly why it is EPWJ style spamming to bring them up again.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/12/2011 @ 11:06 am

    Nope. You have discussed these things with arguments such as ‘Perry is gay’ and ‘Who is Dustin sleeping with’.

    Then you announce victory for some reason.

    The idea Romneycare wasn’t the model for Obamacare is laughable.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  439. “You’re trying to complexify the obvious again.”

    Dustin – See #446, your link. Also your link:

    “That said, Governor Romney’s single term contained some solid efforts to promote pro-growth tax policy. In May of 2004, Mitt Romney proposed cutting the state’s income tax rate from 5.3% to 5.0%—a measure Massachusetts voters had approved in a 2000 referendum, but was blocked by the State Legislature in 2002. The proposed tax cut would have provided $675 million in relief over a year and a half. When the Massachusetts Legislature refused to budge, Romney proposed the same tax cut in 2005 and again in 2006 with no success. Romney was more successful when he took on the State Legislature for imposing a retroactive tax on capital gains earnings. After a bloody fight, Romney succeeded in passing a bill preventing the capital gains tax from being applied retroactively, resulting in a rebate of $275 million for capital gains taxes collected in 2002. Governor Romney also signed legislation that provided property tax relief to seniors in 2005, along with a gimmicky two-day sales tax-free shopping holiday.

    Governor Romney’s history on tax policy is also scattered with inconsistencies. He opposed Ballot Question 1 to eliminate the state income tax and proposed an auto excise tax on SUVs and a greenfields tax on the development of ocean space. In 2003, the Governor refused to endorse the Bush tax cuts, earning the praise of Massachusetts liberal congressman Barney Frank, and was even open to a federal gas tax hike. His strident opposition to the flat tax is most curious and difficult to explain since Romney wasn’t a political candidate at the time. In 1996, he ran a series of newspaper ads in Boston, New Hampshire, and Iowa denouncing the 17% flat tax proposed by then presidential candidate Steve Forbes as a “tax cut for fat cats.” In 2007, Romney continued to oppose the flat tax with harsh language, calling the tax “unfair.” ”

    Just stop with the hackery.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  440. daleyrocks, NO ONE on the GOP side is going to take away benefits from those seniors now collecting them or from those who are getting ready to collect them. But the reality is that the system, as it is currently, is a Ponzi Scheme and is not sustainable. For those workers who are under 45, it will not be there.

    But to claim that Romney is going to rework the program in a way that reduces the cost is fool hearty if you look at his claim that Romneycare was going to reduce medical costs in his state. It has done exactly the opposite where now medical services are more difficult to obtain, insurance premiums are the highest in the nation and the state is treading on dangerous territory with its GDP to debt ratio.

    Means testing is nothing more than a redistribution of wealth; a liberal concept. Why should people who will never benefit from a system be required to pay into it? Do you think UAW members should be required to pay into CWA members retirement plan?

    Ann Coulter, who has now replaced the statue of Chris Christie with one of Mitt Romney on her alter of worship, said that Romneycare increased the percentage of insured from 93% to 96%. So billions of American taxpayer dollars have been spent on Romneycare to insure a 3% increase in covered citizens? That is hardly an admirable acheivement. You should also not like the fact that taxpayers, in all 50 states, are picking up a good portion of the cost of Romneycare.

    If a state wants that kind of insurance regulations, they should be required to pay for it, not bill the rest of us. I don’t want to pay for an Alaskan bridge to nowhere, and I don’t want to pay to give health care insurance to those who don’t live in my state. Since health care is not part of the Constitution, or the federal government’s purview, the 10th Amendment applies here.

    retire05 (ae4dc6)

  441. Yes. Most Romney fans do seem to be very committed to ABO. What is missing is the same manifesto from many Perry fans that they are equally and as a practical matter ABO.

    I tried till I was blue in the face to make such demands in 2010, and I saw many others do the same.

    ‘The RINO is more electable, please agree to support him’.

    It just doesn’t seem to help. Romney’s fans can support whoever the not-Romney candidate is (so long as it’s not Huckabee or something similar). Not Romney fans (not necessarily Perry, but also many other candidates supporters) are going to have a much harder time.

    In 2008, some states saw problems with turnout and enthusiasm. But that was before the Tea Party began. There is a risk of a third party break.

    I think it’s important that those who mostly just want anyone but Obama reject Romney because he’s just not credibly to a lot of conservatives, who may not support him.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  442. “Romney simply isn’t going to reform entitlements.”

    Dustin – OK, I admit defeat by the power of your logic, links and facts contained in the previous statement.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  443. If a state wants that kind of insurance regulations, they should be required to pay for it, not bill the rest of us. I don’t want to pay for an Alaskan bridge to nowhere, and I don’t want to pay to give health care insurance to those who don’t live in my state. Since health care is not part of the Constitution, or the federal government’s purview, the 10th Amendment applies here.

    Comment by retire05 — 10/12/2011 @ 11:10 am

    That alone is a great reason to resent Romneycare.

    Though I think federalism alone is insufficient. Perry was asked about this, and basically gave Romney a pass, saying it’s MA’s choice to do what they want because he supports states rights.

    He should have added that intruding into the freedom of citizens is a terrible thing to do, even if it’s legal.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  444. “daleyrocks, NO ONE on the GOP side is going to take away benefits from those seniors now collecting them or from those who are getting ready to collect them.”

    retire05 – Exactly my point. So to try to stretch a point made to a bunch of people at a senior center that he is going to do nothing to reform Medicare is a ludicrous conclusion.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  445. At the same time, Governor Romney clearly loosened the purse strings for FY 2006 and in his proposed budget for FY2007. With surpluses flowing into the state coffers, the Romney administration sought to undo some of the success it had achieved during the initial lean years. The result was a budget proposal for 2007 that was a whopping 10.12% larger than the preceding fiscal year.

    Here’s the part of the link Daleyrocks claims is a spending decrease in terms of inflation and population. MA’s population did not change much. Less than a percent. Inflation was between two and four percent.

    And remember, Romneycare lost many billions of dollars, so it’s absurd to claim Romney didn’t increase spending. Entitlements like Romneycare are hugely expensive, but often aren’t paid for during the terms of the guy who signed them into law.

    Daleyrocks just doesn’t have the facts on his side. In fact, Romneycare is losing many times more than the deficit he claimed he was going to end when he took office.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  446. daleyrocks #408,

    I have no idea which GOP candidate Obama thinks will be easier to beat. Based on his past behavior, I assume Obama will attack all of the Republican candidates, whenever he sees the opportunity.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  447. retire05 – I would rather Perry continue his campaign to make the nomination a contest rather than drop out as many commentators are suggesting.

    I think Democrats are trying to link Romney’s health care plan with ObamaCare to crash Romney’s campaign because they feel they have a better chance of beating Perry. Perry’s debate performance certainly reinforces that view, but you Perry fans keep telling those of us who don’t know him well to just wait.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  448. retire05 – Exactly my point. So to try to stretch a point made to a bunch of people at a senior center that he is going to do nothing to reform Medicare is a ludicrous conclusion.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/12/2011 @ 11:14 am

    You don’t seem to understand.

    Romney is promising to increase medicare spending by half a trillion dollars by reversing a cut to the program to pay for Obamacare, but Romney is not willing to repeal Obamacare, so he’s increasing entitlement spending my half a trillion dollars.

    Hence my opinion that Romney is not serious about cutting entitlements.

    Retire’s point further damages Romney’s credibility, as he as demogogued the idea Perry will abolish social security or seniors should support Romney in order to protect themselves.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  449. DRJ, I just recall Mccain beat Romney. In fact, Mccain truly outperformed Romney despite having a nearly broke campaign and Romney having an incredibly well funded one.

    Then, Obama beat Mccain. I think Romney and Perry would beat Obama (and both would be better presidents) unless there is a third party problem, which I think is Obama’s only hope, and something pragmatic Republicans can do a lot to avoid by not nominating someone like Romney.

    Not that Elissa is wrong, but her point doesn’t resolve mine.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  450. “Daleyrocks just doesn’t have the facts on his side.”

    Dustin – I just finished linking facts to support what I said and debunk claims you made this morning. Sorry.

    You have difficulty staying on one subject at a time when you are getting your ass handed to you.

    Put down the goal posts.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  451. I would rather Perry continue his campaign to make the nomination a contest rather than drop out as many commentators are suggesting.

    If it comes down to it, Perry should drop out if it’s apparent he can’t beat Romney.

    Romney bought Pawlenty, I assume before Pawlenty dropped out, but who knows for sure? That kind of tactic is necessary to win the nomination.

    The conservatives will need to unify around one candidate. If Perry has so badly performed that it can’t be him, I hope he is willing to endorse Cain (I know that’s asking a lot).

    Frankly, it’s way way too early to worry about it.

    Perry isn’t going to quit yet, and he still is a formidable candidate.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  452. ===I know lots of Perry supporters. Not one of them has said that if Romney takes the nomination, they will not vote for him in the general election. You need to learn that “I think” is not a fact, simply a statement of opinion==

    retire05–don’t shoot the messenger, OK?

    You may have missed the following pronouncement posted on this very thread from a very peedoffamerican:
    252.I held my nose and voted for McCain in ’08, well I actually voted for Sarah. I will not do it this time for Romney, NO MATTER WHO THE VP CANDIDATE IS.
    Tired of holding my nose and voting for RINO’s or Dem-lite. No more, no how, no effing way. Either put up a true conservative or they can kiss my-ass goodbye. Many of us Tea Partyers feel this way, if not most of us

    Retire, I recognize and respect that both you and Dustin and DERJ and many others of all stripes have stated you will vote for the eventual R nominee. But there are many right-leaning others who have pledged on this and on other blogs that they will not. That’s not my opinion. That’s theirs. And it’s a problem for our country.

    elissa (3567ea)

  453. Dustin – I just finished linking facts to support what I said and debunk claims you made this morning. Sorry.

    No you didn’t. I just specifically explained why you were mistaken, completely, to claim gun rights organizations were OK with Romney, with a citation. That was on your own terms.

    Then, I showed that your claim Romney’s 2007 budget increase of 10% was a spending cut if you look at population and inflation was completely incorrect as well.

    You have difficulty staying on one subject at a time when you are getting your ass handed to you.

    Congratulations for announcing you have kicked my ass and Perry is gay for the 500th time.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  454. But there are many right-leaning others who have pledged on this and on other blogs that they will not. That’s not my opinion. That’s theirs. And it’s a problem for our country.

    Comment by elissa — 10/12/2011 @ 11:26 am

    Amen, Elissa. And I do not hold it against you for pointing this out. In fact, I will be right there with you guilt tripping anyone not supporting the GOP nominee.

    But their concerns are sincere. POA raised them above in a discussion with Beldar before my fight with Haiku made the thread difficult to read, and they are very good concerns rooted in patriotism.

    It’s very hard to accept letting this country go down the drain. It feels like we need to draw the line and say we must reform spending and pass a balanced budget amendment, period. At least one of those two things should be the mandate of the GOP ticket, congressional and presidential, in 2012.

    But if we can’t have that, Obama is ridiculously worse than Romney.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  455. Romney looks good but he isn’t beating Perry. It’s too early for one of them to back out, although I think we should all stand down. It’s getting too personal and that doesn’t help anyone, especially our favorite candidates.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  456. “You don’t seem to understand.”

    Yes I do. Obama ripped $500 million out of Medicare to get the theoretical cost of ObamaCare under $1 billion, which anybody knew was a fraudulent number anyway. Those were current, within the next ten years, anyway dollars.

    Medicare actuaries said this Spring that the system is broke by 2023 or 2024. The President was required by statute to respond to that report. He has not yet. The whole debate about whether somebody is or is not going to reform Medicare or other entitlements is stupid given the realities. You are tilting at windmills. Medicare is busted before Social Security.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  457. 453. “I think it’s important that those who mostly just want anyone but Obama reject Romney because he’s just not credibly to a lot of conservatives, who may not support him”

    Bingo, and why not? Because in 2010 we had the biggest swing since 1894 and we did not even slow the growth in spending.

    We need to repeat that performance over and over, 2012 and 2014, when the Republicans are no more popular, barely more competent or truthful, or less corrupt than the Democrats?

    And we’re resigned to voting in Not Obama to effect this miracle? GTFO

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  458. Furthermore, I try not to get ugly in these conversations. I’m sorry it gets that way.

    Haiku’s comment that I was lying in comment 75 was completely and obviously incorrect. Daley trying to cheer that on and criticize me for defending myself is also rooted entirely in his preference at least against Perry.

    Much of our disagreement is a matter of opinion. I think Romney was too liberal, someone else might think he was too conservative (I imagine socialists for example think this).

    I think Romney’s gun measures sucks, some think reducing gun ownership is a good thing.

    These are matters of opinion, and we should be able to disagree without the hate.

    My main beef with Haiku and Daley has been how they conclude a conservative opinion is a lie, or citing a conservative fact with proof is a lie. I don’t think either of them are sincere. I don’t think Daley really thinks Perry is gay, or that he ‘used the needle of sex’ on kids (as Daley actually said). I think the idea is to be nasty because they think that’s how to fight.

    I suggest this is a terrible way to win friends.

    I hope Daley can ease off, because folks like me aren’t going away and we aren’t dishonest. We have good faith reasons to think Romney is too liberal and prefer Perry or another candidate.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  459. “Then, I showed that your claim Romney’s 2007 budget increase of 10% was a spending cut if you look at population and inflation was completely incorrect as well.”

    Dustin – My claim was over the course of his governorship, not one year in isolation. You are wrong. The link you supplied, which I pasted clearly states spending growth during Romney’s term as governor was below that of population growth and inflation, exactly the claim you are hanging your hat on for Perry’s fiscal performance. I have repeated this over and over on these threads. You claim you are man enough to admit you are wrong. Clearly you are not.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  460. Bingo, and why not? Because in 2010 we had the biggest swing since 1894 and we did not even slow the growth in spending.

    That is pretty scary. The GOP actually could have stopped it, too.

    Why didn’t they? Because the fight would have been very hostile and taken a lot of spine.

    Also because the democrats apparently don’t give a crap what the people want. They deserve more blame than the GOP does, but we all gave up on them a long time ago.

    We have seen very clearly that the GOP cannot accomplish anything without painful and ugly counter protests. The degree of reform we need will lead to riots, even.

    If Romney takes those fights on with spine, I will admit I am completely mistaken about him.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  461. “Much of our disagreement is a matter of opinion.”

    Dustin – You have way too much invested in your opinions, but the problem is not opinion. It is simply what you claim as facts are not true and I have backed up my claims with links and quotes. You change the subject or claim people were saying something they were not saying.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  462. When weighing our presidential candidates it’s important to consider that even as of a year ago pretty much everybody expected Barack Obama would easily coast to re-election. The main 2012 R. goal was to take the senate and expand our house majority. Even among those who had found Barry wanting from the get-go, who could have foreseen that his personal and political fortunes could fall so far, so fast, and that he would be beatable in 2012?

    Many in team R probably thought it almost did not matter who ran for the WH in 2012, and that it still had several years to winnow and develop and groom and prepare candidates from its large stable of impressive rising stars. They’d be ready to rumble and to win in 2016.

    But the weather changed very rapidly. It’s really not altogether surprising, then, that many of the R’s who have answered the sudden call to duty are not as perfect, pure, polished, and media prepared as we wish they were. I’m not thoroughly thrilled with the field, either. But, you play with the cards you’re dealt and we’ve got a good chance to get Obama out of there. Let’s not blow it by infighting.

    elissa (3567ea)

  463. Let’s not blow it by infighting.

    Comment by elissa — 10/12/2011 @ 12:30 pm

    Yeah, that’s a good idea.

    It’s not like I have to defend myself from every personal attack that comes my way, either.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  464. Comment by elissa — 10/12/2011 @ 12:30 pm

    Well said, elissa.
    With President Millstone walking like a zombie into a buzz say, it is important for Republicans to not stand in his way.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  465. I will just provide the link which Dustin claimed supported his criticisms of Romney’s performance as governor. Anyone interested will see it is almost a classic EPWJ case of your links not saying what you claim they say. The links comments favorably on Romney’s attempts impose conservative tax and regulatory policies overall in a liberal state, in direct contrast to Dustin’s claims above.

    Serious question – Does exercising veto powers more than 1,000 times make a Republican governor more or less popular in a blue state?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  466. I thought taxes were bad so why raise taxes on the rich?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  467. 475. “Let’s not blow it by infighting.”

    I blew half my retirement to avoid a short sale so we could get another home, and providence got us a foreclosure, perfect location and the 2010 tax credit.

    The rest of the retirement I put in TIPS at Dow 10,000. Not a financial masterstroke. But destined to payoff, if modestly, before the election.

    The first states to vote will see a very different set of needs in a candidate than the last. And then the first week of September quite another.

    The financial sh*t has departed the fan. Your life will not be the same.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  468. No, Daley, I note that Romney was bad on spending three out of four years.

    In particular, I criticize the latter part of his term when spending increases occurred. You said they were spending cuts if you took into account population and inflation, and you’re mistaken.

    The links comments favorably on Romney’s attempts impose conservative tax and regulatory policies overall in a liberal state

    Yes, but Romney gets a C, which is worse than their grade for Perry. Their grade took into account Romney’s blue state, and that’s why he gets a C despite years of major spending increases.

    Your own source places Perry as superior to Romney in every single way that I am aware of. You are cherry picking.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  469. btw, that was Haiku’s link originally.

    I probably noted it in this thread first, but you guys actually used Romney getting a C from the Club For Growth as a pro Romney argument.

    Which is exactly the problem (citing something that doesn’t say what you claim) you’re pretending I am suffering from.

    I am laying out my differences with Romney on specific grounds, and my support for Perry on specific grounds.

    You have accused Perry of being “chicago level corrupt” “gay” and dismissed his successes because you pretend Texas didn’t really balanced their budget, or somehow Texas isn’t led very well.

    You’re wrong. Between Romney and Perry, Perry simply has the more conservative record. He’s fought the good fight, even when it’s difficult, and he’s succeeded. Romney had some success only in his first year, and largely from factors reflecting nationwide trends. As he grew into office, he changed his tune.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  470. Bachmann- scrambled
    Romney- runny
    Gingrich- deviled
    Cain- hard boiled
    Huntsman- poached
    Santorum- over EZ
    Perry- fried

    Big winners- Willard M./16th century/Tabasco
    Big losers- J. Richard/U.S. history/catsup
    Honorable mentions- Ronald Reagan/Beta Theta Pi/Denny’s

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  471. You’re too stupid to throw a Heinz reference in there?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  472. The links comments favorably on Romney’s attempts impose conservative tax and regulatory policies overall in a liberal state

    Actually, I take back my agreement on this.

    Romney’s regulatory policies were not conservative. His tax policies were not conservative. Romneycare is a money hole and erodes liberty. That alone ruins any claim the Romney fan has that Romney imposed conservatism.

    He also increased fees from an already far too high level (which is not comparable to Perry in any way, since Perry both kept taxes stable AND taxes were already very low in Texas… 50% lower than MA).

    But success is its own argument. Daleyrocks can crawl in the weeds and try to find some way to explain Romney’s gun grabbing and healthcare mandare, but MA didn’t see economic growth. It didn’t add jobs. Texas did. Period.

    A drop of less than 1 percent, meaning the addition of about 40,000 jobs, may seem like a modest achievement. Still, Romney has tried to make the most of it.

    “That’s a record that I think the president would like to see,” Romney said at a recent debate. “As a matter of fact we created more jobs in Massachusetts than this president has created in this entire country.”

    Where those Massachusetts jobs were being created is a story in itself.

    The steepest drop during Romney’s tenure came in manufacturing. The number of manufacturing jobs fell by 11.4 percent, extending a historic slide in a state whose mill towns once provided the fuel for the economic engine.

    Other areas that saw declines during Romney’s term were jobs in publishing, movies, broadcasting and data processing, which fell by 7.1 percent, and in warehousing and utilities, which fell by 2.7 percent.

    The strongest job growth was at the higher end of the wage scale. Professional and business services grew by 7.1 percent, education and health services by 6.8 percent, and the leisure and hospitality area by 4.7 percent.

    Part of that growth can be attributed to Massachusetts’ role as a national leader in health care, a role strengthened by the state’s landmark health insurance law signed by Romney in 2006.

    It served as a blueprint for the federal health overhaul signed by President Barack Obama four years later.

    The health care sector is one of the largest in Massachusetts, employing more workers than manufacturing, financial services, retail trade or construction.

    [...]

    Jim Stergios, executive director of the Pioneer Institute, a conservative-leaning Boston-based think tank, worked in the Romney administration but gives the ex-governor a mixed grade.

    Stergios is most critical of Romney’s focus on closing corporate “loopholes,” which the overwhelmingly Democratic Legislature welcomed.

    “While each loophole may have been justified in the mind of someone in the budget office, if you take that cumulatively, it sends a message to the business community that we’re coming to you to solve some of our budget issues,” he said.

    That’s what I’m trying to explain. Romney doesn’t know how to create jobs without using the government to do it, and at severe long term cost (Romneycare has lost billions!). Texas has increases in manufacturing AND health care AND professionals. Really, the only profession Perry has screwed are the malpractice lawyers.

    Texas has grown, and Perry didn’t do it. He simply kept government out of the way, and the growth took care of itself. He has kept spending and taxes low, and it’s really annoying Daleyrocks pretends Perry and Romney have the same record on this, because Romney’s spending proposal is 50% higher per capita than Texas’s and we would like to see Texas’s continue to shrink!

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  473. “Your own source places Perry as superior to Romney in every single way that I am aware of. You are cherry picking.”

    Dustin – You can’t even get out of your own way. Focusing on one year out of four is the definition of cherry picking.

    You claim the best way to evaluate Perry is by looking at growth spending in constant dollars on a per capita basis over the life of his term in office. The link I supplied, originally supplied by you does the same for Romney and you are not happy that it shows he produced good results. Color me shocked by your dishonest attempts to not measure him on the same basis as Perry because it make him look too good.

    No, you cannot admit when you are wrong.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  474. Put more succinctly, if Perry’s success is so easy, why is it so rare?

    What other states are doing what Texas is doing?

    The key is the balanced budget amendment and all the hassles the brings.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  475. You claim the best way to evaluate Perry is by looking at growth spending in constant dollars on a per capita basis over the life of his term in office. T

    No, that’s not true at all.

    The best way to evaluate Perry is to see if his leadership led to growth and prosperity.

    Once we see that obviously Perry is far better than Romney on this count, we then need to analyze why. That’s when I want to look at spending levels and taxation and regulations.

    But you’re twisting that around.

    BTW, Romney increased spending three out of four years. YOU are the one who demanded I credit Romney specifically for his 2007 budget. Don’t you remember? I am replying on YOUR terms as usual.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  476. “it’s really annoying Daleyrocks pretends Perry and Romney have the same record on this, because Romney’s spending proposal is 50% higher per capita than Texas’s and we would like to see Texas’s continue to shrink!”

    Dustin – That’s another example of your dishonest commenting. Show me where I claimed that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  477. Dustin – I am calling you a big fat liar again today. Get riled up if you want.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  478. Here’s a prediction, if a balanced budget amendment passes: within five years, the details of the budget is being determined by the supreme court, and conservatives are screaming about the blatant judicial activism.

    aphrael (5d993c)

  479. Aphrael, I think it will lead to various hassles, but we can write something that is at least somewhat powerful. Many aspects of the constitution have worked pretty well for 200 years.

    You’re right that it won’t be easy and smooth. Congress will not automatically balance the budget. It will be incredibly difficult at times, as it recently was in Texas when I was convinced we would run a deficit, but somehow, they cut spending across the board and suddenly the state government and education are working pretty well anyway.

    Every agency will have to be asked to accomplish their agenda on slightly less and less and less, particularly in bad years.

    That is a recipe for endless drama. I see this in Austin all the time. It affects my pocketbook directly.

    But this hassle is, in my opinion, superior to the current endless cycle of endlessly ballooning debt to a number I don’t even understand. How many zeros are in a trillion? 12?

    We see it actually is working in Texas. Sorta. Not pretty. But working. And with the government choked by law (and I admit, by conservatives who largely like this balanced budget), the growth is taking care of itself. The jobs are there. They are building manufacturing plants.

    Just my opinion, but this is what I think is the most realistic long term solution.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  480. And you don’t have to support Perry to advocate for this.

    Perry doesn’t own this idea, by any stretch of the imagination. But he has worked with it and he understands it, and that is his proposal, so I think folks should give him a close look if this is appealing to them.

    Every reform suffers from the flaw Aphrael pointed out. People can just break the law. Judges can just deny the law somehow, or interpret it in ways we don’t all agree with.

    What alternative is there? Obviously we can’t just reeducate society to only vote for congressmen who actually and reliably pass a balanced budget.

    I think Paul Ryan’s roadmap should be passed with entitlement reform and a balanced budget amendment, along with a sunset on our current debt ceiling.

    We’ve crossed the threshold into emergency.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  481. Dustin – I am calling you a big fat liar again today. Get riled up if you want.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/12/2011 @ 1:24 pm

    Don’t you mean if you want, not if I want?

    You’re trying to have fights instead of arguments.
    You and Haiku tried to prove I was dishonest on grounds specified in comment 75.

    As I’ve said many times, Daley, your style of rhetoric is tearing the party apart. Even defending myself from your personal attacks requires a hell of a lot unnecessary bickering.

    You’re so focused on how dare I express the opinions you hate, to bother looking at the big picture. Almost all of your comments criticize another commenter and make very few big picture points.

    You’re here to pick fights. I get in a lot of fights on the internet too, but I actually hate it. It’s a stupid waste of time.

    That’s why until Haiku called me dishonest, something I invite him to admit he was mistaken about in comment 75, I went out of my way to note I respect him despite our differences.

    I haven’t been getting anything like that from you guys in return, because you don’t seem to care very much about that kind of thing.

    Your loss, not mine.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  482. Comment by aphrael — 10/12/2011 @ 1:43 pm

    Unlike the “infallible” who sit on District Court benches and have a tendency to dictate to legislative bodies at the State and Local level, SCOTUS is more mindful of the Doctrine of Separation of Powers (and has J.Scalia to remind them) and would IMO be reluctant to attempt to dictate to the Congress how they are to set policy (funding) for the Federal Govt.
    As a previous President said: The Chief Justice has issued his opinion; now let him enforce it!
    SCOTUS has absolutely no power to force the Congress to spend and tax. If told to support some piece of legislation with funding, the Congress could just as easily repeal the controlling law, which would moot the controversy.
    To sum up, I don’t think your “nightmare” scenario is likely.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (199304)

  483. Be careful, Daley! Dustin may resort to calling you a moron to buttress his version of a strong case for Perry.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  484. Everyone seems so concerned about the debates. Are they concerned about a debate between Obama and Romney and how Romney will respond to Obama when Obama says “Well, Mitt, I know you say you will give waivers to all the states over my health care plan, but it was YOUR plan I implemented?” Game, set, match.

    Comment by retire05

    Who knew Texans to be the sort of weak-sucks that fall for an idiotic Democrat/Obama!!! strategy like that? Hell, they and Michael “Koran in the Toilet” Ishikoff say it, so it must be true.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  485. Who knew Texans to be the sort of weak-sucks that fall for an idiotic Democrat/Obama!!! strategy like that?

    Are you suggesting Romneycare isn’t the model for Obamacare, or that Romney’s advisors didn’t help create Obamacare?

    Colonel Haiku, your comment 75 was a personal attack on me that you knew was not true, by your own sources. Your own links show that, and your promise to ‘prove it tomorrow’ combined with your spamming of long unrelated articles show bad faith.

    Do you respect yourself enough to apologize, or are you truly devoted to Romney?

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  486. That last comment from Colonel is a perfect example of why Romney and his sycophants, and Perry and his sycophants, are apparently trying to get people to refuse to support them.

    JD (f93629)

  487. I said you were dishonest, Dustin. You continue to act and post with less than good faith. You mince and you ponce. Other than that, you are a swell guy.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  488. 500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  489. Daley, Romney is a flip-flopping manwhore.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  490. And yes the dems in congress along with Bush were to blame for the recession Obama is now making it worse.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  491. “Don’t you mean if you want, not if I want?”

    No, you are the one with the paper thin skin.

    “You and Haiku tried to prove I was dishonest on grounds specified in comment 75.”

    Oh, do you mean after he said he would respond today, you childishly continued to demand at least 20 more times he respond last night. That was very entertaining.

    I also did prove my point. Words seem to mean something to everybody but you. Perry cut education spending on paper, in the budget for the fiscal year starting September 1, 2011. He cut projected spending. The dollars have not gone out the door yet, so who knows how the year will finish, especially if Texas can glom onto some more federal dollars. They seem to be experts at that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  492. DohBiden – Perry would do a great job judging beauty contests. Great gravitas. Pair him with Perez Hilton.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  493. Rush Limbaugh says establishment Republicans and Democrats agree Romney is the best GOP candidate. They may be right but I worry when most of DC agrees on something.

    Comment by DRJ — 10/12/2011 @ 9:26 am

    Just like they forced McLame on us.

    Beldar posted some very important points in this thread directed at the boycott Romney crowd. A hope at least some of them take his words to heart.

    Comment by elissa — 10/12/2011 @ 9:43 am

    Retire, I recognize and respect that both you and Dustin and DERJ and many others of all stripes have stated you will vote for the eventual R nominee. But there are many right-leaning others who have pledged on this and on other blogs that they will not. That’s not my opinion. That’s theirs. And it’s a problem for our country.

    Comment by elissa — 10/12/2011 @ 11:26 am

    The first and last somewhat conservative candidate that I was able to vote for was Reagan. And this after the liberal elites had already foisted Ford on us in ’76 over Reagan, and tried to foist the more liberal George H.W. Bush on us in 1980. Thank God Reagan was able to defeat the liberal elites in their second attempt.

    In 1988 they succeeded with Bush 1, who I voted for in the general election while holding my nose. Then he joins with the dems and raises taxes after pledging to the conservatives, “Read my lips, no new taxes”. In 1992, Guess what he lost to the crook from Arkansas after droves desert and vote for Perot, even after Perot’s crazy stunt.

    In 1996, the liberal elites in the GOP foists Bob Dole on us. Slightly more liberal left of moderate than the average voter. He loses to Billy Clinton, also thanks to GOP base voters voting again for Perot.

    In 2000, we again get another left of center candidate, George W. Bush with his BS compassionate conservatism. Each one that the liberal elites keep forcing on us gets just a little more left of center each time until now, the right is where moderate used to be. With Bush 2 we got more entitlement spending and bigger deficits. The people rebelled in 2008 and elected a closet big spender that promised to cut spending over the media darling McCain.

    In 2010, the Tea Party has been formed, and gives the American people real choices. What happens? The biggest shift in power in the legislature in nearly 70 years. They have not been able to accomplish much due to the many RINO’s and closet dems that still infest the GOP.

    Each time, people in the GOP insist that the conservative base that is over 60% of the party, hold their noses and support the more liberal GOP nominee that is foisted upon us by New Hampshire and Iowa. The reason that the party bosses keep allowing NH and Iowa to hold their primary/caucus first is so the liberal elite GOP can control the nomination with more ease.

    I have had it up to my eyeballs. I have supported these candidates in the past, but enough is enough. I will not do so anymore. Each time I have heard, “But you gotta do it in order to defeat the dems”. Well look where that has gotten us.

    If the GOP fails to nominate at least someone that is somewhat conservative this time, look for the conservatives to stop being the base and form their own party. We have had it with this BS.

    When the people overrode the GOP elites in 1980 and chose a conservative, look what happened. Two consecutive landslides in a row, with the GOP capturing the Senate for the first time in 40 years.

    If we nominate a true or real conservative, the American people will choose him/her, and run Obammy out of the country with his tail between his legs. Like I said, the conservative base is tired and fed up of being taken for granted and then being told to support someone not of our choosing. How about the so called moderates supporting us for a friggin change.

    Perry, I can even hold my nose and support, however, not with a lot of enthusiasm.

    Cain, I can support.

    Bachman, I could vote for.

    Santorum, I could vote for.

    Newt, I can barely manage to vote for after his appearance with Peloosi and his global warming BS.

    Huntsman, he is just a dem in GOP drag.

    O’Romney, I will not under any circumstance vote for this DIABLO S.O.B. in any shape or form.

    Luap Nor, no vote, he’s a total nut.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  494. Pereez Hilton is the love child of Morgan Freeman and a cow.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  495. Perry would do a great job judging beauty contests. Great gravitas. Pair him with Perez Hilton.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/12/2011 @ 4:43 pm

    Thanks for this great insight about a man who has successfully run a state with conservative principles for over a decade.

    I particularly love your comments explaining you hate it when people are unfair to Romney, whom you are merely objective on.

    You sound like a democrat underground kook when you talk about Perry.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  496. Perry, I can even hold my nose and support, however, not with a lot of enthusiasm.

    Cain, I can support.

    Bachman, I could vote for.

    Santorum, I could vote for.

    Newt, I can barely manage to vote for after his appearance with Peloosi and his global warming BS.

    Huntsman, he is just a dem in GOP drag.

    O’Romney, I will not under any circumstance vote for this DIABLO S.O.B. in any shape or form.

    Luap Nor, no vote, he’s a total nut.

    May I suggest you get out there and volunteer for one of the campaigns you prefer.

    I think most Republicans would rather we not nominate Romney. All we have to do is work together.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  497. I said you were dishonest, Dustin. You continue to act and post with less than good faith. You mince and you ponce. Other than that, you are a swell guy.

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 4:10 pm

    Wrong. You specifically said in comment 75 that “For example, he’s cut spending even when it’s very politically difficult, such as a cut to education. Very few state level politicians do it.” was a lie on my part.

    That is obviously not accurate. Parts of that are simply opinions (and documented) and parts of that are facts (and well proven). Your own sources have explained much of what I did.

    You said you could prove this was a lie, and you would do so “tomorrow” meaning today, but instead started copying entire articles not germane to this topic every time I left a comment, in a bad faith filibuster.

    You then backtracked, like a coward, to this far vaguer ‘you’re just dishonest somehow but I won’t specifically explain it in a way you can defend against’ BS.

    Instead of acting like a man and admitting you angrily called me a liar about something you were either ignorant of or worse, aware I was correct about.

    I’ve given you a chance to apologize like a man, well aware that you aren’t up to it.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  498. That last comment from Colonel is a perfect example of why Romney and his sycophants, and Perry and his sycophants, are apparently trying to get people to refuse to support them.

    Comment by JD — 10/12/2011 @ 3:44 pm

    I don’t think you’re directing this at me, but I hope folks understand Perry is a flawed guy, but I think he’s the least bad choice we have.

    I’m not trying to have an ugly fight on this, and repeatedly make efforts to have an argument on the merits, but if someone calls me a liar, and I can prove I told the truth, of course I will do so and ask Haiku to back up his accusations or admit he was wrong.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  499. Hell, I could balance the budget by myself if POTUS, and any conservative with cojones could too.

    Department of Agriculture (USDA)

    Cut the staff in half and remove about about 70% of their BS regs.

    Department of Commerce (DOC)

    Cut the staff in half and remove about about 70% of their BS regs.

    Department of Defense (DOD)

    Make it lean and mean by cutting out wasteful spending on $500 toilet seats and unnecessary spending on congress critters pet projects by refusing to spend the allotted money.

    Department of Education (ED)

    Eliminate it entirely by not appointing a new secretary and firing everyone that works there.

    Department of Energy (DOE)

    Cut the staff in half and remove about about 70% of their BS regs.

    Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)

    Eliminate it entirely by not appointing a new secretary and firing everyone that works there.

    Department of Homeland Security (DHS)

    Make it meaner and leaner by combining the various law enforcement agencies into one agency and doing the same with the intelligence services thus removing a lot of unnecessary redundancies.

    Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)

    Eliminate it entirely by not appointing a new secretary and firing everyone that works there.

    Department of Justice (DOJ)

    Would make some personnel changes by firing every damn lib hack that works there.

    Department of Labor (DOL)

    Eliminate 90% of their regs that are crippling our businesses and cut their budget to 15% of what it is now.

    Department of State (DOS)

    Clean house of all the lib hacks that infest it. Cut their budget to 15% of its present level.

    Department of the Interior (DOI)

    Eliminate it entirely by not appointing a new secretary and firing everyone that works there, and turning the lands over to the states where it belongs. Except for maybe a skeleton staff to oversee the monuments and such in D.C.

    Department of the Treasury

    Cut their budget in staff to 25% of its present level. How much money can it take to print money? Move its law enforcement wing to the others under Homeland Security.

    Department of Transportation (DOT)

    Curtail its staff, budget, and unnecessary BS regs by 75%.

    Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)

    Cut the unnecessary higher staff and insure that there is plenty of those on the lower echelons that actually help our veterans.

    EPA

    Eliminate it entirely and firing everyone that works there, all of the states have their own enviromental protection agencies and can do a better job for each states own needs and problems.

    Eliminate all foreign subsidies, except to maybe Israel who is surrounded by a billion fanatics.

    Eliminate all funding for the arts, public broadcasting, etc….

    If congress overrode my veto of their BS budget, I would simply exercise my executive power and not disburse the money. I know I have missed some areas, but would single out each and every one of the unconstitutional spending items in the appropriations bill and simply refuse to spend the money. Congress may control the purse strings, but it is generally the executive branch that doles it out.

    Some might be tempted to call me a dictator or dictatorial, but how could that be the case when you actually decrease the power and scope of the federal monster that it has become?

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  500. Oh, and another thing. Deport each and every last illegal alien in this country to their home country, and build a 50′ wall on our southern border. Recall at least 50% of our armed forces from Germany and other areas of the world and station them on our borders to defend against the illegal invasion of this country. It is past time that we stopped being the defender of all these other countries and it is way past the time for them to pick up their own defense tab.

    Also, refuse to send funding to the UN. Most of these bastards hate us anyways. Kick the UN out of the US and rent the office space out.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  501. And again I’m glad we don’t elect kings. Thanks, George.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  502. Bushs spending got us in to this mess and Obama will make it worse.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  503. “Thanks for this great insight about a man who has successfully run a state with conservative principles for over a decade.”

    Dustin – Thanks for taking my reply to Doh Biden calling a flip flopping man whore as a serious comment.

    Put on your big boy pants and toughen up, cupcake.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  504. For example, he’s cut spending even when it’s very politically difficult, such as a cut to education. Very few state level politicians do it.

    You are being dishonest about this when you do not admit that he had no other choice, he was forced to cut.

    Again, what is particularly admirable about doing what you have to do? What is unusually courageous about doing what you are forced to do? That is the exact description I’ve read (and have linked to) and yet you continue in this manner.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  505. Now that was just mean, Daley!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  506. The a$$hole calls someone a “moron” and expects an apology?

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  507. I love how Obama who is bi-racial is considered a brother to the greivance mongers and became president just so the ultra-right can be racist.

    I’m sick and tired of you lefty tools calling Obama who is worse than Bush when it comes to the economy is called a scapegoat.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  508. Why did Perry originally endorse sanctuary city loving Rudy Giuliani for president in 2008? Giuliani sued the feds to stop enforcement of immigration laws. When Rudy dropped out he switched his endorsement to McCain.

    What’s up with that?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  509. The a$$hole calls someone a “moron” and expects an apology?

    Comment by ColonelHaiku — 10/12/2011 @ 8:25 pm

    I don’t expect an apology, Haiku.

    I simply have no respect for you now, because I realize you are a dishonest person.

    You are being dishonest about this when you do not admit that he had no other choice, he was forced to cut.

    I have proven to you that Perry was not forced, because Texas could have raided the rainy day fund or increased taxes or cut other agencies.

    This is common sense. Your proof that Perry was forced? You have offered none. Not a single one of your sources claimed Perry had no other options. You simply are lying about this.

    Regardless, you know I sincerely do respect this move. You know I’m not lying. Your claim my good faith opinion is dishonest is very much like all your other claims I’m dishonest. It’s completely in bad faith.

    You want to deny Perry has a conservative record, but it’s impossible to do.

    Why did Perry originally endorse sanctuary city loving Rudy Giuliani for president in 2008?

    Many conservatives supported Rudy despite disagreeing with him on some things. They did so because he was one of the best leaders running, particularly in a war on terror context.

    In fact, cobloggers on this blog liked Rudy, if I recall correctly.

    Your attempt to claim Perry is soft on illegal immigration is extremely weak.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  510. Perry also said about the reported shortfall, “What I don’t do is wring my hands and squall to the top of my lungs that we are going to have to raise a personal income tax or raise taxes, because I don’t believe that. The choices are pretty simple. Are you going to reduce spending, or are you going to raise taxes. We’re going to reduce spending if I am the governor.”

    Perry disputed reports of an $18 billion shortfall and said he was using Steve Ogden’s estimate of a $10-$11 billion budget hole.

    Kofler said, “You take pride in having a lean state budget. It was lean coming out of the last session. It’s lean going into this one, with a looming gap in funding.”

    Perry’s response: “There are a lot of pundits who consider themselves to be experts who say that we have a lean state budget in Texas. I don’t necessarily agree that the Texas budget is all that lean. I think we have an appropriate budget in Texas from the standpoint of the services that the vast number of Texans want, and I do not buy into the premise that you cannot reduce the budget and have a state that functions.”

    Proof Haiku is incorrect.

    The argument was either reduce spending or increase revenue or raid the rainy day fund.

    And there was tons of acrimony that Perry opted to reduce spending. I think Perry deserves credit for having a spine.

    I think Haiku knows damn well his modified argument is completely disingenuous, and I’m absolutely certain he realizes I was not lying to claim Texas cut education spending.

    But he called me a liar, and he’s not man enough to back that up. He and Daley have been on quite a little warpath here. I see this on several conservative blogs. A few Romney fans not relying on persuasion, but rather just trying to fight it out on petty terms.

    I don’t understand why these two even like Romney.

    Can anyone tell me what points of theirs they found persuasive? Perhaps I’m just too convinced about Romney to give their arguments a fair shake, but I’ve tried and they don’t even seem sincere.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  511. Perry is soft on illegal immigration Dustin.

    Biden and Geithner are obamas scapegoats.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  512. Perry is soft on illegal immigration Dustin.

    That can be argued, but the idea that all Rudy’s backers are soft on illegal immigration is absurd, and I know for a fact Daleyrocks is aware of that because he has commented in threads where Rudy fans discuss being strong on illegal immigration.

    Perry’s in state tuition policy is understandable, but I disagree with it because I think it’s an incentive to illegally immigrate. Otherwise, Perry has a strong record on this. He’s done more to secure the border than any other candidate.

    I believe I’ve linked this to Daley before, but it may have been in a stale thread so perhaps he didn’t see it. I realize at this point he probably doesn’t even care what Perry’s actual position is.

    Another link explaining Perry trying to impose a ban on sanctuary cities as an emergency item.

    He has not succeeded with this yes. But it wouldn’t make any sense to ignore Perry taking action in an official capacity to reach a ban sanctuary cities, but then conclude he actually has the opposite view on the basis of his support for Rudy Giuliani, as though there was no other reason to support Rudy but to encourage sanctuary cities.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  513. “Your attempt to claim Perry is soft on illegal immigration is extremely weak.”

    Dustin – You are seeing things you want to see again, not what I wrote. Read my words again.

    Why did Perry endorse Giuliani, who was soft on immigration? I don’t want to know about why others supported Giuliani. That’s you answering questions not asked again.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  514. “But it wouldn’t make any sense to ignore Perry taking action in an official capacity to reach a ban sanctuary cities, but then conclude he actually has the opposite view on the basis of his support for Rudy Giuliani, as though there was no other reason to support Rudy but to encourage sanctuary cities.”

    Dustin – Amazing. Pure projection on your part. You still do not answer the question of the endorsement.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  515. I think Haiku knows damn well his modified argument is completely disingenuous, and I’m absolutely certain he realizes I was not lying to claim Texas cut education spending.

    But he called me a liar, and he’s not man enough to back that up. He and Daley have been on quite a little warpath here. I see this on several conservative blogs. A few Romney fans not relying on persuasion, but rather just trying to fight it out on petty terms.

    I said you were “dishonest”, Dustin. You say he cut spending for education. I read and wrote that he did, but had no other choice but to cut it. He was forced to cut it. What is admirable about doing something he was forced to do? Why does that constitute unique courage on Perry’s part?

    Tell me in your own words why you find that something to shout from the rooftops. Why does that resonate with you? What is uniquely courageous about doing something you are forced to do? There are good things Perry has done, but what is so special about doing something he was forced to do?

    At this point, I could give a flying fig about your respect, I just want an honest answer.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  516. Stereotyping Jews as greedy because of a few bad seeds is bigoted Waxwanker the pig.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  517. The same people who don’t want Nuclear Power Plants are the same ones who will whine and piss when their electricity is turned off and they will have to stew in their own juices.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  518. Another Drew – what choice does the court have?

    Congress passes a budget which it claims is balanced. Someone sues, saying that this independant analysis shows that it’s not balanced. A lower court agrees that it’s not balanced.

    Option (a): take Congress’ word for it. Then Congress can just declare an unbalanced budget to be balanced; the amendment is now just as dead as the P&I clause.

    Option (b): agree that it’s not balanced. ok, but then what? Order Congress to fix it? You just end up in the same place. Alternately, order the executive to cut in specific ways? Now the court is making policy decisions.

    aphrael (5d993c)

  519. Peedoffamerican: I suspect that America would not be better off if you fired everyone who works at the CDC (which is part of HHS).

    I also suspect that relations with Indian tribes will be complicated if you fire everyone in the BIA (which is part of Interior).

    As for states handling their own environmental problems: what recourse does NJ have against environmental problems caused in NY?

    aphrael (5d993c)

  520. “I see this on several conservative blogs. A few Romney fans not relying on persuasion, but rather just trying to fight it out on petty terms.”

    I missed this gem.

    You know what I see on conservative blogs, Perry fans like Dustin becoming unhinged when their candidate is examined.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  521. You know what I see on conservative blogs, Perry fans like Dustin becoming unhinged when their candidate is examined

    And Palin fans doing the same thing. And, for a time, Christine O’Donnell fans doing the same thing. Let’s just take as a given that fans of any particular political figure will bristle at crticism of said figure.

    Chuck Bartowski (4c6c0c)

  522. And romneytards still doing the same thing.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  523. Dems and Repubs big spending got us into this recession and Obama won’t get us out with his phony jobs bills.

    Repeating it for the slow.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  524. doh

    I would love – LOOOOVE to see the Nuclear power and coal power industry say bye bye have fun in the dark

    Juuust to watch the chaos

    EricPWJohnson (d84fb0)

  525. Wow we agree on something.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  526. You guys could use a little perspective.

    ropelight (3c3e62)

  527. I think that’s a sign Apophis, is on the march, and it’s time for some Rage like conditions

    ian cormac (0fc95f)

  528. ian, I assume you jest. Apophis is at least 25 years away and even then represents only a one in a quarter million probability of impact.

    ropelight (3c3e62)

  529. Comment by aphrael — 10/13/2011 @ 7:11 am

    Separation of Powers!
    Show me where, at any time, the Supreme Court has interjected itself into the internal workings of the Legislative Branch?
    It is a Political Question, and the Court does not deal with Political Questions, and never has if they can hang a controversy on that hook.
    The Court can declare a particular Bill of Law unconstitutional; but a finding of a situation of non-balance of a budget would require the Court to over-ride the economic assumptions of not only the Congress, but the accounting bureaus that it relies upon in making such determinations.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (85da3b)

  530. We have more trees today than we did 90 years ago.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  531. New England, and possibly the Mid-West, are more heavily forested today than they were at the turn of the Century in 1800, as land previously cleared for farming has returned to woodlands, or has had landscaped residential developments plopped down upon it.

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (85da3b)

  532. AnotherDrew: ok, then. You concede that the ‘balanced budget amendment’ is a rhetorical device with no force of law, and Congress can ignore it with impunity.

    So, what’s the point, then?

    aphrael (5d993c)

  533. doh

    My trees are soaring, the Forrestry agent was surveying them aand the Univ of Tennessee is running studies that higher levels of carbon may greatly increase crop yields but my hardwoods the 25 or so trees within the first 4 acres of my land have doubled in size in the last 5 years according to their equipment

    Lake house now is completely shaded

    EricPWJohnson (e83e82)

  534. You know what I see on conservative blogs, Perry fans like Dustin becoming unhinged when their candidate is examined.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/13/2011 @ 7:58 am

    Except I don’t. I even criticize Perry. I’ll even grant the points others make about Perry that are sensible. Your points, that he is gay, or that he is “chicago level corrupt” are not very sensible, but even then I didn’t get “unhinged”. You are projecting. It is you who is angry about criticism of your candidate.

    You concede that the ‘balanced budget amendment’ is a rhetorical device with no force of law, and Congress can ignore it with impunity.

    They can abuse it, perhaps bend it, or it can written so rigidly that it’s a hassle to implement.

    But I think this concern that it will be completely ignored is legitimate, but can be policed against.

    Consider that it’s actually working in Texas. And consider that we don’t have many alternatives.

    Do they outright ignore the debt ceiling? No. In fact, when we approach it, it’s a serious issue leading to concerns about a government shutdown and there is a political battle over it. They don’t just ignore it. Granted, there are tricks done with what counts as debt, and accounting gimmicks extending spending slightly beyond what should be legal.

    That kind of thing I concede would probably happen with a balanced budget amendment. But without one, we are in deep trouble financially.

    [note: released from moderation. --Stashiu]

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  535. aphrael, I agree that unless there is an enforcement mechanism contained within the Amendment (not likely, and not encased in any other amendment that I can recall), or encased in the enabling law (as the Volstedt Act enforced the 18th-A), Congress could ignore it.
    There would have to be some legal constraint upon any individual Congressperson who voted outside the legislative mechanism for increased spending.
    I don’t know what that language would look like, but feel confident that there are a raft of proposals hanging around to do just that.

    But, to throw it back at you:
    Art-I, Sec-8 (xii) grants to The Congress the power to declare war.
    How can the Judicial Branch discipline the Legislative Branch for failure to do so?

    Another Drew - Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (85da3b)

  536. Dustin – Amazing. Pure projection on your part. You still do not answer the question of the endorsement.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/12/2011 @ 11:50 pm

    I answered the question directly. Perry like many conservatives liked Rudy for his skill as a leader, particularly in a war on terror context, and he was like many other conservatives doing so, and I also proved that he opposes sanctuary cities and explained why your attempt to say Perry’s support of Rudy was on that basis is baseless.

    You, on the other hand, have ignored most of the questions I’ve asked you. You even answered one simply by saying “I don’t have to answer your questions”. Now you complain I didn’t answer yours? Even when your problem really is that you wish to ignore my answer?

    You’re a joke, Daleyrocks.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  537. I actually watched Perry endorse Rudy live. I specifically recall him doing so on the basis of homeland security and called Rudy a “proven leader” or something to that effect, who has some kind of record of taking on bad guys (as a prosecutor and a mayor), and had “Executive experience”. He said Rudy was a “results oriented leader”. Which is something Perry says a lot.

    Same reason I prefer Perry to Romney is that Perry has actual results to point to, instead of rhetoric or what some are calling Romney’s plan to have a plan.

    Perry did not claim to support Rudy because of sanctuary cities. Perry has tried to ban sanctuary cities, but he can’t rule Texas with an iron fist, and he’s failed to accomplish that goal (which by all means folks should criticize).

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  538. Daleyrocks, earlier you said Romney’s strong gun control wasn’t that big a problem and asked me to summarize how gun rights advocates felt about it (as though I am not a guns rights activist).

    Let’s read Mitt Romney explain to you why you’re wrong.

    Romney backed two gun-control measures strongly opposed by the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups: the Brady Bill, which imposed a five-day waiting period on gun sales, and a ban on certain assault weapons.

    “That’s not going to make me the hero of the NRA,” Romney told the Boston Herald in 1994.

    At another campaign stop that year, he told reporters: “I don’t line up with the NRA.

    And the NRA is moderate and even left leaning at times, supporting Bob Dole and Harry Reid and even some gun bans. By Mitt’s own words, he was to the left. Of course, this was before Mitt flip flopped and cherished the second amendment, and also became a crucial fund raiser who few establishment Republicans want to criticize.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  539. I also wanted to note in a separate comment that Romney did nothing about sanctuary cities. I’ve linked Perry trying to ban them, even using emergency powers to attempt it.

    Romney just accepted sanctuary cities.

    Perry wins on this comparison, though not powerfully.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  540. You’re a joke, Daleyrocks.

    Comment by Dustin

    There’s that effete, victory mincing again. What’s the matter with Texas?!?!

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  541. I think Haiku knows damn well his modified argument is completely disingenuous, and I’m absolutely certain he realizes I was not lying to claim Texas cut education spending.

    But he called me a liar, and he’s not man enough to back that up. He and Daley have been on quite a little warpath here. I see this on several conservative blogs. A few Romney fans not relying on persuasion, but rather just trying to fight it out on petty terms.

    I said you were “dishonest”, Dustin. You say he cut spending for education. I read and wrote that he did, but Perry had no other choice but to cut it. He was forced to cut it. What is admirable about doing something he was forced to do? Why does that constitute unique courage on Perry’s part?

    Tell me in your own words why you find that something to shout from the rooftops. Why does that resonate with you? What is uniquely courageous about doing something you are forced to do? There are good things Perry has done, but what is so special – or significant – about Perry doing something he was forced to do?

    At this point, I could give a flying fig about your respect, I just want an honest answer.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  542. Tell me in your own words why you find that something to shout from the rooftops. Why does that resonate with you? What is uniquely courageous about doing something you are forced to do? There are good things Perry has done, but what is so special – or significant – about Perry doing something he was forced to do?

    At this point, I could give a flying fig about your respect, I just want an honest answer.

    Comment 523 shows that Texas had other options than cutting spending, especially in such a sacred cow agency as education.

    So you’re simply wrong on the facts.

    I’ve repeatedly explained why I think Perry showed spine in the face of repeated measures to control education spending (it happened in 2006 as well). He even faced lawsuits from the NEA for doing so. Many demanded he cut other agencies instead, or raise taxes. Many demanded he raid the rainy day fund. This went on for many months.

    But Perry stood his ground, even on an emotionally charged ‘for the children’ issue, because we couldn’t afford our current education spending level, and Perry felt we could maintain an effective level of service with cuts.

    Haiku’s claim now is that he is justified to call me dishonest because he doesn’t agree with my opinion that Perry deserves credit, but this certainly isn’t what he promised to prove. He simply has backtracked all the way to where he is saying that yes, Perry did impose cuts just as I claimed he did. His own sources admit Perry had other options. His own sources admit Perry did this to great opposition.

    But Haiku’s excuse for saying I’m a liar is that he doesn’t agree with me that one should credit a governor for making a major cut to education spending.

    That’s not what he originally meant. He’s a weasel, and this is a weasel’s way out. His excuse isn’t meant to persuade a single person.

    Colonel Haiku doesn’t value personal integrity, and is a shill for Romney. I think those two facts are closely related.

    Here’s two examples of a conversation
    —-
    A

    Dustin: I give Perry credit for cutting education spending.

    Haiku: You are a liar

    Dustin: How?

    Haiku: I proved it

    Dustin: How?

    Haiku: I’ll tell you tomorrow after I paste twelve articles bashing Perry into the thread

    Dustin: It’s tomorrow. I pasted links explaining both that Perry did actually do what I claimed and also links showing it was challenging compared to Perry’s other options. You are mistaken and should apologize.

    Haiku: Oh, I’m not claiming you were wrong on the provable facts anymore. I just think you are giving Perry too much credit for what he did. So you are dishonest.

    Dustin: that is a matter of opinion, not fact, so why claim I’m a liar?

    [Repeat last two steps several times]

    ————
    B

    Dustin: I give Perry credit for cutting education spending

    Haiku: I do not give Perry as much credit as you do because of the following reasons. This constitutes a legitimate difference of opinion

    Dustin: OK

    —————

    See what I mean? Only I have had similar fights with Haiku on many other matters. He outright rejects any fact that shows Romney to suck or Perry to rock, and even calls opinions he doesn’t agree with dishonest despite being obviously reasonable.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  543. Another Drew – ah, but the grant of power to declare war is not a commandmant that war must be declared under certain circumstances.

    that’s a bit different from a requirement that there be an annual budget and that it be balanced.

    which is to say: in the war powers case, exercise of that power is optional.

    in the balanced budget case, it’s not.

    aphrael (a0f788)

  544. If Romney is revealed to be an agent of Satan will you RINOs shut the frick up.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  545. If people like W.E.B. Dubois opposed eugenics than why do his fans support aborting black babies?

    DohBiden (d54602)

  546. There are other ideas for balancing the budget than a BBA, Aphrael.

    I was wondering if you have a pet idea for that goal (other than us merely electing responsible leaders).

    It seems pretty clear to me that current spending levels are leading us to a severe problem. That’s why I say that despite the inherent imperfections of a BBA the issue, it’s better than nothing. It’s like a crude emergency brake that I’m yanking up because our car is headed right over the cliff and the driver is suicidal.

    Trying to hope for congress or the president to start driving properly in the future is similar to begging the suicidal driver to drive properly.

    Dustin (b2fb78)

  547. Dustin… posting imaginary conversations in his ridiculous post #555… why am I not surprised?

    From the link provided on post #356 highlights the half-truths of Dustin…

    “Perry has been willing to accept federal funds. He turned down stimulus funds targeted for assistance to the unemployed ($555 million) — but accepted nearly $17 billion in stimulus funds targeted at other efforts. An analysis by PolitiFact Texas found that Texas had shifted from a donor state (paying more in taxes than receiving in federal funds) to a recipient state under Perry’s tenure. “On an annual basis between 1981 and 2003, Texas almost always paid more in federal taxes than it got back from Uncle Sam. But since 2003 the reverse has been true, with Texas receiving more than it paid in five out of seven years, which is close to routine,” PolitiFact Texas reported in April.

    There are many reasons Texas might have become a recipient state. The most obvious is that the state’s demographic composition has changed. A growing share of younger Texans are of Mexican origin, and at least some of them have foreign-born parents with limited English proficiency and other disadvantages that make them more likely to be eligible for federal assistance.

    But accepting federal funds isn’t the only chink in Perry’s small-spending armor: He also can’t point to the same experience with budget wars that a Scott Walker–type would have accumulated over the years. Having governed in Texas, Perry benefited from having a conservative legislature — which means he is “untested” on his ability to cut spending when confronted by a different kind of legislature and fiscal situation, observes Edwards.

    Keep in mind that Gov. Perry has been forced to make deep cuts in K-12 spending in the last budget cycle, and across the board. Having been in power for over a decade, one has to wonder why Gov. Perry has left so much fat on the bone. Has he not had his eye on spending throughout his tenure?”

    There’s also the politifact link on post #265 that highlights the halftruths of Dustin.

    ColonelHaiku (a4b693)

  548. The left who hate the rich despite being composed of rich people think if the rich were to kill themselves or leave america and take their jobs elsewhere the economy would approve………..one thing Michael Moore does not pay his fair share in taxes and he is on your side leftards.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  549. Funny that the OWS hate capitialism but yet the leftys such as Michael Moore side with them and say the people have a right to protest.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  550. Funny the OWS idiots don’t complain about Michael Moore’s riches.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  551. And yes Mugabe and the others hate Qaddaffi for being too pro-israel.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  552. And yes Mugabe and the others hate Qaddaffi for being too pro-israel.

    Ah yes being up rioters is wrong I assume you’ll say that when Obama sends in the coast guard after he suspends the constitution leftys.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  553. Oh wait Qaddaffi wasn’t Pro-Israel but those lefty marxists don’t see it that way.

    DohBiden (d54602)

  554. I assume the leftys will have no problem with riots if the economy collapses.

    DohBiden (d54602)


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