Patterico's Pontifications

3/29/2011

Original Pigford Claimant Calls It One Of “Biggest Conspiracies Against The U.S. Treasury Ever”

Filed under: General — Stranahan @ 6:00 am

[Guest Post by Lee Stranahan]

Quick Note to Patterico readers – I’ve been working with Andrew Breitbart for several months on the Pigford story. The Pigford ‘black farmers’ settlement has cost over 2.5 billion dollars so far. A lawsuit initially meant to help black farmers who had been discriminated against by the USDA, it ended up as a giveaway to thousands who fraudulently claimed to have ‘attempted to farm.’ It’s not something I’m planning to be blogging about regularly here but we’re kicking off a new series about it and I wanted to give you a taste of it. If you want more, we’ve done a huge amount of reporting on it over at BigGovernment.com )

It’s back to business on our investigation of the Pigford story – the ongoing fraud that needs your help and attention to make it stop. The mainstream – with a few exceptions like John Stossel – are ignoring the story of the one of the biggest frauds in U.S. history because it doesn’t fit their narrative. The good guys are the real farmers who faced discrimination at the hands of the USDA and the people, mostly conservative at this point, trying to bring their story to light. The bad guys are the trial lawyers, politicians, race hustlers and those inside the USDA who profit by lying to the public about how the Pigford settlement is a ‘victory’ for black farmers.

In this video, we introduce you to Lucious Abrams, a Georgia farmer who was one of the seven original claimants. Abrams has spent years working for justice only to be betrayed by people like the Congressional Black Caucus.  Now Lucious is speaking out and speaking truth the power structure that doesn’t speak for him.

When a group like Color of Change wants to silence investigation into Pigford, it’s farmers like Lucious Abrams they are silencing.

When liberals on sites like DailyKos try to bully Rep. Steve King and Rep. Michele Bachmann with charges of racism, it’s really farmers like Lucious Abrams they are bullying.

When supposed advocates for black farmers like John Boyd ignore the plight of real black farmers and keep the Pigford fraud going, it’s farmers like Lucious Abrams they ignore.

– Lee Stranahan

89 Responses to “Original Pigford Claimant Calls It One Of “Biggest Conspiracies Against The U.S. Treasury Ever””

  1. I read the article at BigGov, and thought it was very good. You and John Stossel should get together and do something on this (he just had something on FoxNews over the weekend about it).

    Scott Jacobs (f587c5)

  2. I find it so frustrating that this can’t catch on in the broader media. Maybe if farmers like Lucious Abrams would go handcuff themselves to the White House fence. Or camp out in front of Obama’s Chicago home. Of course, they are too busy working.

    MayBee (081489)

  3. Now, we see why they were so quick to throw Shirley under the bus, as they ‘supposedly’ said in ‘All the President’s Men, ‘follow the money’

    narciso (b545d5)

  4. It is unfortunate that so very many efforts to redress real wrongs begin with merit and good intentions and then become subsumed by other interests and by selfish people who are not honorable. Pigford fits this mold to a T. This is a story worth telling and it eventually needs to be published in a book, not just online and on TV.

    We expect this intellectual malfeasance from the professional race-baiters. But where, especially, are the Black journalists? Or, do they, too, view this widespread fraud against the US Government and American taxpayers as a form of backdoor reparations to which many Blacks feel entitled, but know will never be paid through legal or legislative channels.

    elissa (a32b69)

  5. Lucious Abrams?

    Never heard of him.

    Charlie Gibson (6cfe93)

  6. Racist commies.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  7. The bad guys here are the liberal Democrat socialists who created this wealth redistribution scheme in the first place.

    The good guys are anyone who fights against socialism.

    And, the idea that people in the federal government who are engaged in the business of stealing money from me and giving it to whomever they then give it to are somehow “conservative” is the joke of the century.

    They’re socialists, left wingers, and they’re only conservative in the sense that their system of socialistic theft has been around for decades, and they want to keep it going. The idea that the people who comprise that portion of the federal bureaucracy that practices naked socialism, and was created by liberal Democrats, are somehow a bunch of rock-ribbed right wing types is beyond hilarious.

    And, guys like Lucious Abrams who, in effect are suing me, even though I don’t owe them a Goddamn cent, aren’t some kind of heroes fighting for justice, they’re just welfare leeches trying to get a bigger chunk of the stolen money pie.

    Dave Surls (e97f16)

  8. Where is the class action suit against those that are perpetrating this fraud? How is that a kid with .38 can hold up a store for 100 bucks and get 10 years, but a bunch of politicos-lawyers-activists can bilk billions and no one blinks?

    If the light of truth were as strong as should be in cases like this…folks would think they were standing on the sun.

    Sad part, no matter what happens it is unlikely the victims in this mess will ever be compensated, to include the american taxpayer.

    Pieter Nosworthy (e55bb6)

  9. Is there a legal fund or other way of showing Mr. Abrams tangible support? He is showing “everyday heroism” that has not been so “everyday” for awhile. A black Georgia farmer giving credit to white members of Congress from MN and Iowa for seeking justice on his behalf. I imagine none of the three want anything more than the right thing be done in a color-blind fashion, but as long as people dishonestly squawk about racism it is important to dispell the myths.

    Keep the notes until the post-Holder DOJ can investigate.

    Seems that Jesse Jackson and a whole lot of folks causing trouble in Madison could have spent their time in more productive ways.

    MD in Philly (f0e1bd)

  10. Dave Surls– Your comments above somewhat confuse me and your anger seems somehow misdirected. I wonder if you feel you have a solid background understanding of the Pigford case?

    elissa (a32b69)

  11. You’ve got several problems going on here.

    First- define biggest-you don’t support that claim in this post.

    Second-”billion” after an 800 “billion” dollar stimulus-the public has grown resistant to the shock of the term “billion”.

    Third-You have a minority within a minority and you have very little way to gain traction.

    The black vote has been and will be locked up and particularly now that there is a black President the percentages are phenomenal-*if* you’ve followed that for any length of time.

    Yes, I do hate being this jaded and cynical.

    madawaskan (fd190b)

  12. Cynicism is warranted, but so is giving credit where credit is due.

    MD in Philly (f0e1bd)

  13. “Dave Surls– Your comments above somewhat confuse me”

    What part?

    Seems easy to understand to me.

    Dave Surls (e97f16)

  14. Why should the public care, if Lee doesn’t care enough to support his claim any better than this?

    madawaskan (fd190b)

  15. Dave, the Pigford settlement itself was actually justified. The Department of Agriculture screwed over some farmers. They were racist.

    The settlement is yet another way the government screwed over these black farmers. I grant you have a point about socialist bureaucrats like Sherrod, who exploited this settlement to create some lame version of social justice, where liars raid the treasury.

    That’s not the plaintiff’s fault, though.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  16. It’s astonishing how folks who fought for justice over many years are being shortchanged because of those who jumped on the government-trough-bandwagon; who profited in their name through lies.

    Y’all stick to this story, like a pit-bull with their jaws locked onto it’s quarry. Eventually right will win out over evil; if for no other reason than publicity of it as another issue during the 2012 campaign.

    Bob Reed (5f2db5)

  17. “Dave, the Pigford settlement itself was actually justified.”

    Ba-lo-ney.

    Timothy Pigford wasn’t entitled to one single cent of my money in the first place, and neither is anyone else taking handouts from the USDA.

    The lawsuit is a bunch of welfare leeches suing me because they think they ought to get a bigger welfare check…that’s all it is, and all it ever was.

    Person A got $2 in welfare and you only got $1? Cry me a freaking river, pal. None of you ever should have gotten a dime in the first place.

    I didn’t owe you when you started stealing my money in partnership with the federal government, and I don’t owe you now.

    Dave Surls (e97f16)

  18. One of the ‘biggest’? Tis a shame, but $2.5 billion probably doesn’t even rank among the top 10.

    How about the conspiracy to push America into attacking Iraq? Or the conspiracy that brought down the twin towers? Both of those have cost us much more than $2.5 billion.

    On a more serious note, how about the conspiracy to push through a Metro expansion in the DC area? $4 billion. Or the conspiracy to push through all sorts of environmental regulations, with their costs in the hundreds of billions of dollars? Or the conspiracy to convince us that the billions of dollars in foreign aid produced benefits to the US?

    Yes, I’m jaded, but $2.5 billion in small change in terms of government abuse and abuse of government.

    steve (369bc6)

  19. Timothy Pigford wasn’t entitled to one single cent of my money in the first place, and neither is anyone else taking handouts from the USDA.

    OH, Ok. well, that’s a legitimate point, but you made it in a very confusing way.

    Why not just initially say you think the USDA loan program is a bad idea altogether?

    Regardless, you’re wrong. The USDA was giving loans to white people, and not black people. That’s unacceptable, and ending the loan program is not good enough. Some people were screwed.

    Person A got $2 in welfare and you only got $1? Cry me a freaking river, pal. None of you ever should have gotten a dime in the first place.

    That’s not quite right. Race A got their livelihood, and Race B didn’t. The plaintiff had a justification to complain, and your earlier comment doesn’t reference this new complaint.

    If Obama says tomorrow that white people no longer get social security, will you condemn the white people who sue, saying it’s just socialism anyway? I doubt it.

    Yes, there’s a larger complaint about the USDA helping people farm in an age where this kind of farming is not viable anymore. You do have a point, but you’re not being fair.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  20. Was steve serious?

    JÐ (85b089)

  21. Your an POS.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  22. Dave Surls–You are not a fan of the USDA. I am not either. But unfortunately it exists and has for a long time. While it exists it is supposed to be run competently and fairly. Your earlier comments, while passionate, do not seem to address the problem at hand: which is to expose and stop the raping and pillaging of the treasury through outright fraud. (Billions in fake claims that through internal corruption, lawyer greed, and outside influences, were allowed to morph from a quite small and limited discrimination case that was brought and won by a few Pigford plaintiffs.)

    This is the part I find confusing about your comments. Do you not want this fraud to be stopped? Do you not want it exposed? If not, why not? And if you do want it exposed what good does your angrily throwing teacups at the wall do? What good does undermining Bachman and King do?

    elissa (a32b69)

  23. steve, it would have been much cheaper to take Saddam out earlier, like in 1991. I admit that some aspects of Iraq wasted money, but I disagree that we could have ignored Saddam forever and saved money. Some conflicts come to us if we don’t face them. The longer we wait, the worse it gets.

    The only way to deny this is to pretend 9/11 was an inside job, which you appear to be doing, POS.

    However, Dave Surls’s point can be made very well if you try, and it resolves a lot of your points too.

    Any time we give tons of money to a detached bureacracy, corruption and waste occurs. we saw that with the racist loans Pigford was screwed by. We saw that by Sherrod’s confession of being a racist government bureaucrat to a cheering NAACP audience (that didn’t realize she as about to disavow her racism… and they didn’t cheer that part so much because they liked the racism).

    We see corruption from lush agencies all the time, and the main solution is to stop using money to re-engineer society. People want lots of small farmers to succeed, but using federal cash to make that happen is foolish.

    Letting the private sector handle as much of these matters as possible takes away the elitist’s sense of fairness, but it replaces it with a need to be sustainable financially.

    I want to reiterate my point to Dave. Every American citizen has a right to expect their government and laws to treat them fairly, with no regard to their race. When a white person is even mildly discriminated against, such as via Affirmative Action quotas or Sotomayor’s favored screwing up fireman application tests, it is infuriating. Every American has a right to their government treating them the same as any other American. In this case, the government treated Pigford worse because he was black. That alone justifies his lawsuit, even if we resent the entire project of federal cash for farms.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  24. Not because of your anti-enviromentalist views but because you think there was a conspiracy to attack iraq.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  25. It never gets old seeing just how gullible some people are…

    steve (369bc6)

  26. It never gets old seeing just how gullible some people are…

    In other words, steve, you are a troll, and because you were too clumsy and not clever enough to make a point, you have to post a subsequent self congratulations for being a troll. Clever trolls never have to do that… only attention starved idiots have to do that.

    I don’t like truthers. Are you a truther? Straight question, so please give me a straight answer.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  27. Truthers are scum.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  28. How about the conspiracy to push America into attacking Iraq? Or the conspiracy that brought down the twin towers? Both of those have cost us much more than $2.5 billion.

    Okay, steve. Thanks for sharing your views. We are all more enlightened for having read your thoughts.

    JD (3dfbdf)

  29. Dustin: troll? truther? Moi? What part of ‘On a more serious note…” are you not getting?

    Anyway, I made my point, that a $2.5 billion conspiracy is small potatoes, that taxpayers are getting screwed out of far more money on a daily basis than the relative chump change here… and I agree that given human nature, the only way to eliminate these scams is to take the money and power away from the government.

    steve (369bc6)

  30. steve, I asked you a straight question, and you ignored me.

    What part of ‘On a more serious note…” are you not getting?

    OK… so you were mocking truthers, and think people who suggest such conspiracies are wrong?

    Anyway, I made my point, that a $2.5 billion conspiracy is small potatoes, that taxpayers are getting screwed out of far more money on a daily basis than the relative chump change here

    $2.5 billion is not chump change. Good lord. Good Allah if you’re JD. All those larger wasteful spendings are comprised of smaller ones. It’s called “addition”. You cannot be opposed to big spending if you complain that we’re upset about billions in outright fraud.

    No… I’m not falling for the canard that we should ignore the “chump change” of billions wasted, earmarks, etc, and save our political capital for huge entitlement reform. They go together rather than conflict, and we should cut whatever we can cut. It’s a crisis.

    Don’t be such a sucker, Steve. And answer my question directly.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  31. “Why not just initially say you think the USDA loan program is a bad idea altogether?”

    That’s the first thing I did say:

    The bad guys here are the liberal Democrat socialists who created this wealth redistribution scheme in the first place.

    “The USDA was giving loans to white people, and not black people.”

    Don’t be absurd. How do you think people like Shirley Sherrod got into the farming business in the first place? The government stole money from you, and then loaned it, or just gave it to her and her “business” partners. That’s how.

    When her and her partners ran their alleged farming business into the ground, because they knew doodly squat about farming or how to run a business, they then turned around and sued YOU to get even more money…which they got, I might add.

    “You do have a point…”

    Damn right, I have a point. Sherrod, and people like Sherrod, have spent their whole life living off loans or handouts from the government. That’s ALL she’s ever done. She’s basically never had a job that wasn’t taxpayer subsidized. And, then, to add insult to injury, she complains that’s she’s been discriminated against because she isn’t getting big enough handouts…and, guys like you believe it.

    That’s very silly of you.

    “The plaintiff had a justification to complain”

    The only complaint they ever have is that the government isn’t giving them enough of the money that’s being stolen from me.

    Dave Surls (7e5fa3)

  32. I didn’t ignore you, I just didn’t bother to answer your question in the way you directed me to.

    And $2.5 billion is chump change, especially, as I pointed out, in comparison to some of the other wastes of money. $2.5 billion is a fraction of what is spent every day. It isn’t even equal to a day’s deficit.

    steve (369bc6)

  33. We already killed Saddam so we should leave………If you disagree fine your still an ally.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  34. “Your earlier comments, while passionate…”

    Yeah, I always get passionate when people steal my money via the tax system, and then start filing lawsuits because they don’t think they’re getting a big enough share of the loot.

    That’s one of my many, well documented, character flaws.

    Dave Surls (7e5fa3)

  35. $2.5 billion is not chump change.

    He’s got a point though…

    The government blows through what, 6 billion a day? If even only 1% of that is waste/fraud, then in 100 days we’d have blown 6 billion on waste and fraud.

    Scott Jacobs (176843)

  36. And, then, to add insult to injury, she complains that’s she’s been discriminated against because she isn’t getting big enough handouts…and, guys like you believe it.

    That is not what I said. In fact, it’s the opposite of what I said. You’re lying about me.

    Damn right, I have a point.

    You quote me, and then go on about a different point. I don’t think you’re following this discussion whatsoever.

    It’s one thing to say you think the entire enterprise of USDA loans is “socialism”. It’s another to take the Dave Surls line that if the US Government denies you a loan because of your skin color, that is not a valid complaint.

    That’s the first thing I did say:

    No it isn’t, and I doubt you had that in mind at all. The first thing you said was typical blowhard nonsense that was too vague for anyone to understand, which is why 4 people asked you what you meant, and 0 people understood.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  37. I just didn’t bother to answer your question in the way you directed me to.

    I asked you a straight question, and you talk about the question a lot, but never answer it.

    Are you a truther?

    How dare you assert a “conspiracy to bring down the twin towers” and then refuse to explain what conspiracy you’re talking about. You’re pushing a claim about mass murder, and it is not decent to cast that out without owning what you meant.

    Yeah, I always get passionate when people steal my money via the tax system

    Sure. I think you get passionate when you want attention, and are too lazy to do the work of understanding the conversation. You want to congratulate yourself for being more firey about your tax dollars, but you’re too lazy to figure out what the story is about, and you don’t care if the Us Government treats a black man differently than a white man.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  38. Frankly, I’m sick to death of these John Hitchcock types who insert themselves into every damn topic.

    The USDA Pigford settlement is abused? Well Dave thinks it’s all about him, and how mad he is, and how he was personally robbed, and to hell with Pigford’s involvement, which Dave can generalize to being identical with Sherrod’s (which is damn stupid).

    Every story is not a test of who is the most pure and angry blowhard. People who argue like that are unreliable in a movement. I saw that with John, when it was time for him to admit a mistake, so I’m not patient.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  39. How dare you assert a “conspiracy to bring down the twin towers” and then refuse to explain what conspiracy you’re talking about. You’re pushing a claim about mass murder

    No matter how many times you say I did, I didn’t.

    steve (369bc6)

  40. How dare you assert a “conspiracy to bring down the twin towers” and then refuse to explain what conspiracy you’re talking about. You’re pushing a claim about mass murder, and it is not decent to cast that out without owning what you meant.

    Dustin… Calm down…

    I mean, there WAS conspiracy. It was masterminded by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed…

    Scott Jacobs (176843)

  41. One of the ‘biggest’? Tis a shame, but $2.5 billion probably doesn’t even rank among the top 10.

    How about the conspiracy to push America into attacking Iraq? Or the conspiracy that brought down the twin towers? Both of those have cost us much more than $2.5 billion.

    On a more serious note, how about the conspiracy to push through a Metro expansion in the DC area? $4 billion. Or the conspiracy to push through all sorts of environmental regulations, with their costs in the hundreds of billions of dollars? Or the conspiracy to convince us that the billions of dollars in foreign aid produced benefits to the US?

    Yes, I’m jaded, but $2.5 billion in small change in terms of government abuse and abuse of government.

    Comment by steve — 3/29/2011 @ 11:31 am

    Dustin (c16eca)

  42. You silly it was a conspiracy done by that dumbass redneck moron bus. He is is dumb he is an evil genius.

    /Sarcasm Off

    DohBiden (984d23)

  43. bush*

    Is*

    DohBiden (984d23)

  44. I know I comment here more than most folks, which I find perplexing because I just don’t take this internet crap seriously enough to try to speak this blowhard snark language some people rely on to avoid an honest and direct conversation.

    It’s the most pathetic thing on the internet to see someone pretend to be Socrates when they haven’t even understood the face-value comment they are replying to. I say that because these folks have built this snarky dialect (which is quite popular) as a defense mechanism, instead of just admitting a correction, like a mentally healthy adult.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  45. I mean, there WAS conspiracy. It was masterminded by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed…

    Comment by Scott Jacobs

    BTW, Scott, I was hoping he would say this is what he meant. This is why I asked him what he meant in a straight, polite manner. Technically, this is true, but it’s an unlikely interpretation.

    Since he’s talking about my question so much, but not answering it clearly, I guess he’s snarking his way out of being flat stupid.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  46. “You’re lying about me.”

    Nope.

    You said that the USDA wasn’t loaning money to black people and that’s not correct, so I corrected you.

    I don’t lie.

    “No it isn’t, and I doubt you had that in mind at all.”

    Well, I’m not going to argue with you about what I said or what I meant.

    “The first thing you said was typical blowhard nonsense…”

    I guess that depends on how you feel about the government taxing me so they can loan or give money to Timothy Pickford, or Shirley Sherrod. Personally, I think I have every right to raise a big old stink about wealth redistribution schemes that benefit those folks at my expense, while communists like Shirley Sherrod, who are cashing in on the wealth redistribution system would probably agree with you that it was blowhard nonsense.

    I don’t see how anyone could not understand what I was saying…

    “The bad guys here are the liberal Democrat socialists who created this wealth redistribution scheme in the first place.”

    …in the context of this conversation.

    What the hell did y’all think I was talking about?

    Dave Surls (7e5fa3)

  47. What were you referring to then, steve?

    JD (3dfbdf)

  48. How much are the lawyers that brought this case getting? 1/3rd?

    Newtons.Bit (922da8)

  49. Not all trial lawyers are the bad guys. There are plenty of us (dare I say a majority, despite the general perception of our profession?) who work every day of our lives to see real justice done. When the legitimate Pigford claimants figure out how badly they’ve been screwed, I have no doubt that they will want to hire the best, most ethical trial lawyer they can find to sue the fraudsters (including, and especially, the LAW FIRMS who have been submitting the fraudulent claims – False Claims Act liability, anyone?).

    Drew (aa5509)

  50. I don’t lie.

    Why did you say I believed Sherrod’s crap, when I noted that she was dishonestly exploiting the valid beef of Pigford?

    You rejected my claim you weren’t closely following, so either you were lying about that or you were lying about my argument.

    Also, another point… I was thinking of all the commenters here who manage to have a straight conversation. A lot of them share Dave or my POV on this… Elissa, Dana, MD in Philly, Mark, and a longer list. A lot of them don’t share my POV all the time, or even never, like Aphrael, Kishnevi, Leviticus, but still manage an interesting conversation.

    And then there’s JD and Happyfeet. He’s usually snarky. Snarkier than Dave or steve sometimes. And yet I don’t find them annoying because they aren’t pretending to be superior. They are comics rather than poseur Socrates.

    If you aren’t going to take anyone else seriously, that’s OK so long as you don’t take yourself so damn seriously.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  51. How much are the lawyers that brought this case getting? 1/3rd?

    Comment by Newtons.Bit — 3/29/2011 @ 1:43 pm

    They get more in an appeal. It’s a point of negotiation, but it could be 40% + expenses (like Kinkos or even legal research) and still be professionally acceptable.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  52. And Drew’s right. I realize I have yet again fed the lamer aspect of the thread, but I’m interested in that aspect of Pigford’s POV.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  53. You know it’s sad, surely there were many that were mistreated, but in the end they turned this, into a political game, as with everything else.

    narciso (b545d5)

  54. Dustin: So the law firm that brought this is getting upwards of a billion dollars? That’s… disgusting.

    Newtons.Bit (922da8)

  55. “Why did you say I believed Sherrod’s crap…”

    I said guys like you. Not you.

    People who believe that Shirley Sherrod had a legitimate complain are like you in the sense that you all believe that SOMEONE has a legitimate complaint, be it Timothy Pickford or Shirley Sherrod or whoever.

    People like me (assuming there’s more than one) are different than you because we don’t believe that ANYONE involved has a legitimate complaint.

    That’s all I was saying

    I don’t lie.

    Not about this kind of crap. If I’m going to lie, it’s going to be about some life and death situation, not just to make a point in some endless bull session. Not worth lying about.

    Dave Surls (7e5fa3)

  56. it says the average reparations in the bill Obama signed is expected to be $50,000 each

    $50,000 is many and I’m pretty sure this is tax-free.

    Unlike cash for clunkers it won’t have any stimulus effect though cause this is just borrowing from the Chinese to give to a politically favored group as opposed to borrowing from the Chinese for to pay people to wreck their cars.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  57. Arsewipes.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  58. pretending to be superior? a poseur Socrates? that hurts… even if I don’t get it.

    steve (369bc6)

  59. Even if don’t get it.

    Honesty is a nice trait.

    DohBiden (984d23)

  60. Even if i don’t get it*

    DohBiden (984d23)

  61. “Timothy Pickford”

    Whoops I meant Pigford.

    I keep doing that because I have a thing for Mary Pickford.

    Dave Surls (7e5fa3)

  62. steve, my sincere apologies if I simply don’t understand you and have gotten you wrong.

    But I did ask directly what you meant, and then repeatedly asked directly, and you refused to answer directly, so … my sorrow is probably not justified.

    I’m not trying to insult you, and to be honest, I’m no less susceptible to coming across the wrong way… but I try not to.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  63. “pretending to be superior?”

    I’m not pretending!

    :)

    Dave Surls (7e5fa3)

  64. Eric – demographics as of 2007. The discrimination in question took place in the 1980s and 1990s.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  65. How about the conspiracy to push America into attacking Iraq? Or the conspiracy that brought down the twin towers? Both of those have cost us much more than $2.5 billion.

    Is steve going to explain?

    Aphrael – careful ;-)

    JD (3dfbdf)

  66. Aphrael

    Yeah – I’m trying to find those numbers but looking at the figures its seems like a significant sample of those were there over 25 years.. So who knows what the demo’s were. or were even if the record keeping standards were the same in the time of the discrimination – to today

    Which is a contributing factor to this suits justification

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  67. EPWJ, I have no doubt the USDA was not 100% comprised of the idiots who discriminated against blacks in the 80s or the idiots who discriminated against whites when Sherrod was doing it.

    That said, it’s the case they did discriminate in both those ways, and both are completely unacceptable and at the very least the government should terminate those who ever behaved in such a manner and try to make people whole.

    I think the settlement with Pigford should have been a loan that must be used to start a freakin’ farm. If you’re black and willing to start a farm and felt discriminated against, you get such a loan, perhaps with a special compensation in the terms, such as a special loan guarantee (so there’s no down payment) or even very low interest rates, and the US Government as the lender, instead of a bank.

    That way, we no longer have to worry about people lying about wanting a farm and getting an easy $50k. I guess it’s just too common sense of me to think a loan for a farm is the right way to treat the person who was denied a loan for a farm.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  68. DUSTIN,

    I was just curious to see what the demographics actually were at the USDA

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  69. Me too, Eric. I’m glad you provided some kind of info on it. I’m not sure what the problem at USDA was, but the details of Pigford show he had a truly legitimate beef with them. I also think the USDA is part of the reason the settlement is such a catastrophe.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  70. Dustin,

    SBA is another HUGE MESS, HUD another, geez it seemes like monthly that the HUD administration has someone going to jail

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  71. Dustin,

    These is no way in hades that you can efficiently and cost effectively review every federal application in every segment for the possibilities of discrimination

    Just no way

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  72. This is why I am against any entitlements, and any public school, we are a wildly diverse culture and the accomodations to sensibilities is just staggering to the point of comic absurdity.

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  73. This is why I am against any entitlements, and any public school, we are a wildly diverse culture and the accomodations to sensibilities is just staggering to the point of comic absurdity.

    I understand that sentiment, but I think a little common sense goes a long way, especially with public schools. As I said upthread, and as Dave tried to say, sorta, is that these bureaucrats can’t be trusted with the level of power people need for social engineering. It’s an impossible task for government.

    One of the best solutions is simply to remove as much money as possible. A USDA that isn’t giving out loans, or a public school that runs on a shoestring budget, will probably do a better job than what we have today.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  74. dustin,

    As long as ONE person can sue and compel everyone to to comport their sensibilities – then “public” schools are not an option

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  75. comport to

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  76. As long as ONE person can sue and compel everyone to to comport their sensibilities – then “public” schools are not an option

    Comment by EricPWJohnson

    I feel I have an extrinsic interest in the education of the kids in my neighborhood. I know this is paternalistic, but I want education available to the families around me that want to use it, and I think they better have a damn good reason to keep their kids out (such as trying to educate them a different way).

    Eliminating public education altogether is a cure worse than the disease.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  77. At least from a utilitarian perspective…

    Dustin (c16eca)

  78. Dustin,

    Supporting private school intitatives can go a long way towards satifying your well grounded sense of duty towards the youth –

    But sending them blindly into a system that is further retreating from the basic concepts of reading writing and rithmatic, to me, is selling them short

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  79. arithmetic, I’m going back to bed

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  80. A-thinkin’ IS hard. Rest up.

    Icy Texan (c28aa6)

  81. Supporting private school intitatives can go a long way towards satifying your well grounded sense of duty towards the youth –

    Amen. So long as my neighbors can use those private schools, I think we’d be well on our way towards a much better society. I wasn’t sure you were allowing for private school vouchers.

    I suspect some of the kids who need education the most have families that are most unable to get them into a private school without vouchers. Even those who stay in public schools would benefit from the competition.

    I think it’s a shame western civ is barely touched upon in our public schools, but I admit you are more right to complain about how schools do less and less of ensuring the basics are taught.

    Dustin (c16eca)

  82. Dustin

    rinity Lutheran in Spring Texas was a private school. Kleim ISD at the time spent 7,900 per student (I’m looking at my notes here but you can go to the TEA website to verify everything I’m saying) whereas Trinity Lutheran with an enrolment of over a thousand k – 12 spent 4,000 per student

    The difference in SAT scores were about 30% with Kleins small participation rate (Only the elite taking it) and Trinity rewuiring everyone take it.

    So trinity was doing 30% better for 75% less funds

    Those results were not unique.

    Dustin (ae1588)

  83. Sorry that LAst Comment wasnt by Dustin somehow I typed his name instead of mine

    Very Sorry

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  84. But I think everyone could tell it wasnt his because his english is better and so is his typing

    EricPWJohnson (ae1588)

  85. This wasn’t about “reparations”, or “wealth-redistribution”, or any other high-minded Leftist/Collectivist “good.”

    It was nothing more than a blatant con – intended as payback for their Demmunist-party donors, and to buy the votes of poor blacks.

    Yes – I said it: This was a vote-buying scheme, and a corrupt “payback” op to their donors.

    The “payback” went to all the lawyers who got filthy rich, while their fraudulent “claimants” – the supposed beneficiaries of “reparations” or “redistribution” – often got PEANUTS.

    Let’s recap:
    (1) TARP? Billions for their Wall-street donors.
    (2) “Stimulus”? How many of those “shovel ready jobs” went to non-union folk? In short, billions for their Union donors!
    (3) GM/Chrysler? Both companies handed over to the UAW — more Billions for their Union Donors!
    (3a) Dealerships? In both cases, Demmunist-donors stayed open, Repub donors were closed! More payback!
    (4) “Health Care”? First, it bailed out the Unions’ pension-plans, which are collectively over a trillion dollars in the hole. By passing their “health-care” obligations to the .gov, it made their pension-plans solvent again. More payback to their Union donors!
    (4a) “Waivers” — so far over 1,000, and the correlation to their donor-list is almost 100%! Still more payback!
    (5) Pigford? Vote-buying *AND* payback!

    I could go on – and on – but do I really need to? I haven’t even STARTED on Goldman-Sachs, and other outright conflict-of-interest/blatant corruption!

    Frankly, I don’t see the need. If you can’t see the pattern by now, odds are you never will — your DENIAL is obstructing your view!

    This is *THE* most corrupt administration in HISTORY! We are now – officially – a banana-republic, a kleptocracy.

    Personally, I believe they know the crash/collapse is coming, and they’re seeking to strip as many assets as possible for themselves before it does. They’re not invested in cash, they’re buying up metals and other commodities that will be inflation-proof.

    I read today that Soros is buying up grain-elevators all over the US – he’s already the 3rd-largest owner of such processing infrastructure, and is heading even higher!

    Do you REALLY want Soros in charge of our food-supply? ESPECIALLY post-economic-collapse??!!

    Worst of all, I’ve just scratched the surface — and this is just part of what we KNOW! Imagine what we DO NOT know!

    God help us — and God Save Our Republic!

    Dedicated_Dad (73dbf6)

  86. Thanks for that, Lee.

    tyree (84087f)

  87. From one of Lee’s links…

    “A common misgiving in the conservative blogosphere is a discrepancy between the number of Pigford claimants and black farmers counted by the U.S. Census of Agriculture. While there have been more than 94,000 claimants (the combined number of applicants from both the original Pigford suit and Pigford II), the census never counted more than 33,250 black farmers in a single year between 1983 and 2007.”

    Gee, why would anyone have misgivings about that? Obviously, the federal government (which basically lives to give people free handouts, especially to black people, so liberal Democrat types can atone for their guilt by taking my money and giving it to the descendants of black people wronged by the Jim Crow system created by Democrats) is so prejudiced that they managed to find a way to screw three times more black farmers than actually existed. All that is is proof of just how bigoted they are!!!

    Pigford: a scam from day one.

    Dave Surls (8d673a)


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