Patterico's Pontifications

9/12/2010

O’Donnell Leads Castle in Poll; UPDATE: Levin Calls Patterico an “Idiot”; UPDATE: And a “Jackass” and a “Moron” and an “Ass”

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 11:02 pm

Public Policy Polling:

It looks like there’s a real possibility of a major upset in the Delaware Senate primary on Tuesday night, with insurgent conservative Christine O’Donnell leading longtime Congressman and Governor Mike Castle 47-44. That 3 point lead is well within the poll’s margin of error.

Meanwhile, Dan Riehl is raising questions about Mike Castle’s record. I’m happy to pass along those concerns . . . for what they’re worth.

Dan also jumps into a dispute between the PowerLine guys and Mark Levin. It looks like a full-on war between the “real conservatives” and anyone with the temerity to question them.

Count me out of the war (for now) — but I will say this. There are people who have devoted themselves to the conservative cause for years. I count the PowerLine guys in that group. I sure as hell would not casually place them in the “traitor” category — and I don’t really care what Dan Riehl or Mark Levin say. People with years of solid conservative blogging deserve some credit for their years of solid conservative blogging.

Some conservatives apparently don’t want to put our reputations behind someone who appears to be a liar. I’m sure as shootin’ not going to jump down their throats for that.

Again: I’m not eager to jump into this fight. Then again, if someone wants to drag me into it, I know how to fight back. Fairly warned be thee, say I.

UPDATE: You know, I finally read through Levin’s Facebook post, and Paul Mirengoff’s post that Levin distorts. I am ready to jump into the war.

Levin’s post is packed with mischaracterizations. Just chock full of them. Expressed with the dripping arrogance of someone who apparently feels that, because he is better known than Mirengoff, he is entitled to say whatever he feels like about him — and the facts be damned.

I suppose caring about the facts probably makes me an inauthentic conservative in Mark Levin’s eyes. I don’t care. I’ll go with the facts, every time.

Every time.

UPDATE: I see Levin just called me an “idiot.” I won’t descend to Levin’s namecalling. Again, I will stick with the facts:

PowerLine supported Toomey, contrary to Levin’s original assertion. In the end, they did not support Harriet Miers, contrary to Levin’s original assertion. Levin said Graham is Mirengoff’s “brand of Republican.” That was flatly false. Mirengoff criticizes Graham constantly. Levin said “Mirengoff starts from the proposition that long-time Republican officials deserve re-election.” That assertion is unsupported and false.

Note well: my focus was the facts, and the way Levin distorted them — and now he is coming after me personally. This is reflective of the tactics of the left that Matt Lewis notes are being used against anyone who doesn’t toe the line.

Levin says he has written about these issues since. That’s nice. However, his original piece — the one with all the distortions — remains uncorrected.

I will note only that my concern was, and always will be, with the facts. If that makes me an “idiot” in Mark Levin’s eyes, I don’t want to be “smart.”

UPDATE: Levin calls me other names too, of course, such as “jackass” and the like.  The one I find most interesting is “just another loser with a keyboard.” Levin claims superiority to me because he has written a book and I haven’t, and he is on the radio while I am not.  Apparently bloggers who hold famous radio guys accountable for their distortions are just losers in pajamas.

Where have I heard this line of argument before?  Oh, that’s right: from our betters in Big Media.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

UPDATE: I have more on the way that Levin’s arrogant disregard for the facts reminds one of Big Media elitism, here.

203 Responses to “O’Donnell Leads Castle in Poll; UPDATE: Levin Calls Patterico an “Idiot”; UPDATE: And a “Jackass” and a “Moron” and an “Ass””

  1. Noah:

    Christine O’Donnell is running against Mike Castle in the Senate primary in Delaware. I thought I would explain that, since the post makes it clear, and you apparently like explanations repeated when the post makes them clear.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  2. The state Senate, Patterico? This coming election or in 2012?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  3. Indeed, Dustin. There are a lot of senates and a lot of elections. How is a Biblical figure supposed to keep track of his pairs of animals AND the Delaware Senate primary??

    How about that poll, huh?

    Patterico (c218bd)

  4. Noah? She’s my sister…

    Gazzer (6404af)

  5. The last two sentences of the Powerline article are important, in my opinion:

    “…here is an unfortunate tendency among some on the right to adopt the view that no one is a *real* conservative except for them and a handful of their friends or followers. This sort of divisive, exclusionary attitude is a sure ticket to perpetual minority status, and should be avoided by all conservatives….”

    Now I understand that many people don’t agree with that statement.

    Eric Blair (58b0cf)

  6. The poll shows that the Tea Party is a force. That’s for sure. I don’t think this makes sense for this general election, but hopefully a lot of squishy Senators remember that they could be next, and their electability may not save them.

    Powerline appears to have gotten badly hosed. Their defense is exhaustive. Lindsey Graham fans they are not, and I’ve never read them to claim incumbency is its own argument. And these guys write back if you email them a critical comment. Some of these misstatements really didn’t need to happen.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  7. John Hinderaker is a RINO.

    /”real conservative”

    Patterico (c218bd)

  8. I think that “media figures” like Mark Levin can spend a little bit too much time reading their own fanmail? Levin’s book was darned good, but still. He was waaaay over the top attacking the Powerline crew.

    Eric Blair (58b0cf)

  9. You know, I finally read through Levin’s Facebook post, and Paul Mirengoff’s post that Levin distorts. I am ready to jump into the war.

    Levin’s post is packed with mischaracterizations. Just chock full of them. Expressed with the dripping arrogance of someone who apparently feels that, because he is better known than Mirengoff, he is entitled to say whatever he feels like about him — and the facts be damned.

    I suppose caring about the facts probably makes me an inauthentic conservative in Mark Levin’s eyes. I don’t care. I’ll go with the facts, every time.

    Every time.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  10. I have gotten people mad by saying this, Patterico, but it all comes down to “Purity of Essence.”

    I’m with Reagan’s Eleventh Commandment on this one, especially in these very perilous times.

    I understand my position is not popular or edgy or hip.

    Eric Blair (58b0cf)

  11. And I have to admit, there is something about Levin’s manner I do not care for…though I loved his book. It’s the reason I don’t listen to his radio show…

    Eric Blair (58b0cf)

  12. I wonder if Scott Brown will face a tough primary challenge.

    One the one hand, I meant what I said above about pressure from conservatives on moderate Republicans. On the other hand, some of these states really do want some of this squishiness. It’s not like O’Donnell and Castle are running to represent just the Republicans or conservatives.

    I’ll be glad when this primary is over.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  13. Sen. Castle has a better chance of holding the seat.

    He’s also not a crazy liar who who tells crazy lies like Joe Biden.

    Did I mention O’Donnell is certifiable?

    The presidency is not the place for a journey of discovery and the Senate is not the place for group therapy.

    We have to support honorable candidates and we DON’T have to support crazy liars.

    Character matters.

    Daryl Herbert (1cd925)

  14. I used to enjoy Levin’s appearances on Hannity & Colmes, years ago. But his voice is extremely grating and it’s surprising to me that he is a success on radio.

    That said, he has read my stuff before on his show and I have been happy to learn of it. And he does have a firm grasp on constitutional principles, which is what first attracted me to him on Hannity & Colmes.

    But this shabby treatment of Mirengoff is inexcusable. It reminds me of the way he treated David Frum. I really dislike Frum, but I thought Levin was just an ass to him. It was almost — ALMOST! — enough to make me want to feel sorry for Frum.

    This is worse. He was just rude to Frum. Frum sort of deserved some rudeness.

    Nobody deserves distortions. And that’s what these are. Rank distortions.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  15. Daryl! It’s good to have you back commenting.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  16. So basically, we have Levin being squirrelly with the truth, as he supports O’Donnell, who is squirrelly with the truth.

    I’m so proud!

    Patterico (c218bd)

  17. It’s the curse of success: successful pundits can easily become what they previously condemned.

    Fortunately, I will never have to worry about that!

    Eric Blair (58b0cf)

  18. It’s interesting to see the folks who actually support O’Donnell, and not just oppose Castle. It’s really forcing me to reevaluate Palin, for example.

    What I think about Delaware was well put by DrewM who notes that any Republican in Delaware today starts with a large disadvantage. They have to pull out of a hold deeper than 15 points by drawing left leaners and democrats away from the democrat candidate.

    That takes something very special. This was a rare opportunity to get a Republican seat, because Castle was a good governor and the people trust him regardless of his (R) or (D).

    O’Donnell is going to have to come up with something powerfully attractive to democrats and left leaning independents to win, and she doesn’t have that kind of background.

    It’s not that politicians can’t build ten or more points after a primary… it happens. But the way it has to happen for O’Donnell is just as likely as Coons being caught in bed with a live boy or a dead girl.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  19. upsets are very America

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  20. I agree that Levin totally mischaracterized what Mirengoff said. He didn’t even seen to understand it.

    Mirengoff wrote about the strategic wisdom of the left in supporting less-than-ideal candidates, concluding:
    Unfortunately, some leading conservative activists don’t see it this way. It’s disconcerting to realize that many of our activists aren’t even as astute as the likes of Markos Moulitsas.

    Levin says:
    Now, if you don’t agree with Mirengoff, then you’re no better than “the likes of Markos Moulitsas.”

    Levin should be ashamed of that howling distortion.

    And yes, Levin has a voice made for print.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (fb9e90)

  21. Louisiana had a governor’s race a minute or two ago where the general had a Republican ex-klansman and a Democrat ex-con battling each other. One of the Democrat slogans that year was “Vote For The Crook.” Unfortunately, it seems the Delaware Republican primary this year may be similar. I’m glad I don’t live in Delaware.

    I cannot ever vote for someone who garnered a 100 percent NARAL rating. I cannot see how I could vote for someone who voted for the DISCLOSE Act or who supports Crap-n-Tax. The Rook needs pwned, but it appears the one capable of the pwnage is a bit skeletal.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  22. I cannot see how I could vote for someone who voted for the DISCLOSE Act or who supports Crap-n-Tax.

    I know at some point I could vote for someone like this, but it would be really, really hard to do. They would have to be running against the likes of Obama. In a primary? I don’t think I could possibly do it, and that’s why I make a big distinction between those who simply oppose Castle, rather than those who are angry that O’Donnell is being criticized.

    I’m also glad I’m not in Delaware.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  23. If the Republicans fail to take the Senate in 2010, it will be because knee-jerk “Conservatives” thought that running hard right candidates in blue states was a good idea. They’d rather be right than win.

    Kevin (298030)

  24. Kevin, I already said previously that RCP shows Republicans picking up Delaware and holding 49 seats. I think it is your knee jerking this time.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  25. Amen Kevin, Amen

    EricPWJohnson (17f94c)

  26. Hope she will beat Mr. Castle Tuesday night. It is time to rid of these Rinos. They are liberal just like the Democrats. The Republican Party need a clean house.

    m (fc559b)

  27. Patterico and minions:

    Normally I don’t do comments — too little to do, too much time! — but in this case I believe I have a useful framework to adopt.

    Instead of spitting hares of conservatism, let’s get much more practical. Patterico is not a true conservative; I know this because I’m not a conservative at all, true or fabricated. But nearly all of us reading this blog are antiliberals, antileftists, and antisocialists.

    With that supercategory gloss in mind, ask not for whom the conservative tolls; ask rather what you can do for the cause of antiliberalism.

    And the number-one task of antiliberalism is to reduce the number of liberals in Congress and in state legislatures. With that goal in mind, it becomes easy to support a wimpy, squishy centrist in a Glue Blue state like Delaware. Supporting lousy candidate O’Donnell will only allow liberal Democrats to retain a Senate seat we’re counting on to seize control of the Senate.

    Is Mike Castle a liberal? No, not in the least… he’s a centrist who (as Mirengoff notes) votes with liberals about half the time, but also votes against liberals about half the time. By contrast, the Democratic candidate, Chris Coons, is a true and very blue liberal who will vote with liberals 100% of the time.

    In this case, worrying not about how staunch are your conservatives but rather how attenuated are your liberals, the choice is clear: Support Castle, “moderate” though he is, as the man most likely to move the needle in an antiliberal direction by taking the seat away from Democrats (Castle is the former governor, lieutenant governor, and nine-term U.S. Representative)… rather than O’Donnell, who won’t be elected, allowing the Senate seat to descend to ultraliberal Coons, the Democrat.

    Instead of a schism, try antiliberalism!”

    Dafydd

    Dafydd the Pedant (632d00)

  28. 13. Sen. Rep. Castle has a better chance of holding winning the seat.
    Comment by Daryl Herbert

    – There. FTFY!!!

    Icy Texan (ef771e)

  29. I support Christine O’Donnell, but it’s not worth it if it means senate control and ability to determine chairmanships of committees. I don’t like Castle’s squishy Cap and Tax and want real Republicans, not crypto-socialists, and not sure Christine can be elected in the general. Would be great if she did, though.

    john (73cec4)

  30. So, will Castle be ANOTHER republican to go independent?

    Matelot (d1d448)

  31. Christine certainly has better conservative credentials than Castle but to what end? If she can’t win in Delaware whats the point? Taking over Senate Majority Leader at this point is much more important to the GOP than Mike Castle voting record at this point. Let get the majority and reign in Castle later.

    Dennis D (e0b996)

  32. ““…here is an unfortunate tendency among some on the right to adopt the view that no one is a *real* conservative except for them and a handful of their friends or followers. This sort of divisive, exclusionary attitude is a sure ticket to perpetual minority status, and should be avoided by all conservatives….””

    No one is a real american except for them, real patriot, etc… etc..

    imdw (8bb588)

  33. “So basically, we have Levin being squirrelly with the truth, as he supports O’Donnell, who is squirrelly with the truth.”

    Add that Dan Riehl is upset with a DE republican because he worked to… cut corporate tax bills.

    imdw (8bb588)

  34. What are you people talking about?
    O’Donnell’s selective memories to burnish her nameplate doesn’t hold a candle to the suite of dishonesty involved in voting yes on Waxman Markey.
    Castle through his vote said yes co2 is a poison that causes little children to gasp for air like fish out of water. He said yes co2 is causing the sea to turn into a cauldren of acid, and the 100 thousand other lies spread by Grist and Joe Romm.

    And what did he do it for? Because his true constituent, the DuPont corporation, stood to reap huge subsidies if Waxman Markey were passed into law. Subsidies extorted from every American.

    Subsidies built on the rhetoric of insane zero population growth advocates. He voted blood money to his corporate master.

    Show me where Christine O’Donnell or Mark Levin did anything approaching that sort of soulless evil, then you can talk.

    paper tiger (f37e83)

  35. Blogging can develop the discipline of rational argumentation, where red herrings, ad hominems, straw men, etc. are not tolerated in debate and are promptly called out. Assertions are expected to be backed up with appropriate links. Understatement is often more powerful than overstatement, because when the inevitable counter attack happens a coup de grace can be delivered.

    I hope this gets through to the Levins of the world. We need them, but we don’t need the garbage.

    If your case can’t hold up rationally, your case isn’t as good as you thought it was. Making it personal is the tactic of the other side.

    Amphipolis (b120ce)

  36. I’m not supporting a dishonest candidate, no matter how conservative the answers they fill in on a form.

    Adjoran (ec6a4b)

  37. Moulitsas is like one of those poisonous toads, who has abetted every anti American, antiWestern, antiJewish sentiment in the Democrats, he is known for promoting that walking malaprop Dean, to national standing, he later cheered as the formerveterans, on that Bridge over Fallujah saw their bodies, strewn, ‘!#@$@#%#$^ they’re mercs, they deserve what they got’ Every Dem presidential candidate, including Kerry, Edwards, and Obama, had a diary on that site, and those comments plus others that belong on Al Jazeera, always have come up. He was invited to comment MTP probably because of, not inspite of these comments. He is now peddling a book, crudely slandering conservatives as akin to the Taliban. They had to fire their pollster, because the previous one was cooking the sample. His site was in the first wave of libel against Sarah on the Trig denial question. He is Soro’s trained chimp
    Everything about him, is deceit, corruption, and thorough vileness.

    Like I have said before, for reasons passing understanding, I have a fair institutional memory about how this behavior has worked. The liberals
    tried this tactic, nearly 50 years after the Eisenhower administration, in tarnishing the New Right, they had help in ’64, from Rockefeller
    and Scranton, against Goldwater, which was amptedup to 11, by the most mendacious campaign since the last one. They put up factotums like Clinton, and present him as a moderate, whereas he abetted the subprime fraud, through the CRA revisions, and moves by Cisneros, slashed our military while AQ was on the prowl, continued the proscription on natural resource development bothin the West, and up in ANWR, bur because he was forced to cooperate on welfare reform, couldn’t veto the capital gains cuts, he is regarded as some kind of model,

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  38. “Because his true constituent, the DuPont corporation, stood to reap huge subsidies if Waxman Markey were passed into law.”

    paper tiger – I’m curious, what subsidies would DuPont get? Can you elaborate?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  39. Hey Rico, hailing from Minnesota as I do, I weekly turn to Powerline and the local blogs.

    Scott is alright, but these lawyers are not the intellecual cream of the lawyer blogs. Other than local color I find little value in their posts and routinely, logical confusion. They are at their best, GOP sockpuppets.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  40. I like IMAO’s comment on the subject: “It doesn’t matter if the fate of Republicans/Conservatism is at stake; I’m not going to start caring about Delaware.”

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  41. “Other than local color I find little value in their posts and routinely, logical confusion.”

    gary – I disagree. I have been reading them for years and have never found them confused about anything.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  42. Matelot brings up a good point. Too many candidates are losing in the primary (or, seeing that they’re going to lose the primary, not running in it), only to then run as an “independent” in the general election. If Republicans want to have a hope in hell of being successful, then both the hard-core conservatives and the more moderate crowd need to have some party loyalty, and defer to the wishes of their party, no matter how wrong or misguided they may think them.

    This means that if the squishy Castle gets the nod, then all of the O’Donnell people (or the anti-Castle people) need to get on board and support him whole-heartedly. It also means that every single member of the GOP needs to vote against Charlie Crist (that’s the election for Senate down in Florida, Noah), just because he refused to accept the certain primary results. And all the moderate Republicans in Nevada need to shut up and vote for Sharron Angle, even though she was not their preferred candidate.

    United we stand, divided we fall, people.

    We need to have hard-fought primaries, because these are worthy debates to be had… but we can’t let hard primary fights lead any significant faction to abandon the race in the general election to the other party. So have the debate over who is the better candidate, who’s got the best chance of winning, who’s squishier than the other, but AFTER the primary is decided, shut up and get on board, or you will be helping the Democrats.

    Oh, and can we dispense with the “lying” claims against politicians based just on them voting for stuff you don’t like, however bad that stuff may be? If a politician says he won’t do something, and then does (Read my lips!), then fine, he’s a liar and he should be called on it. But if he never promised a vote one way or another, then it’s not lying. Something else, maybe, but not lying.

    PatHMV (140f2a)

  43. Scott is alright, but these lawyers are not the intellecual cream of the lawyer blogs. Other than local color I find little value in their posts and routinely, logical confusion. They are at their best, GOP sockpuppets.

    I don’t share this assessment, but even if I did, that would not make them fair game for the kind of distortions we see here from Levin.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  44. Levin has a voice made for newspaper.

    JD (80be5e)

  45. pathmv

    i frankly blame joe lieberman for this “keep running even if you lose the primary” trend. Not that i am going to pick on the guy and he was pretty well justified in running. I mean the fact was he did have the majority of the people behind him, to the point that if memory serves the Ct. Republican party endorsed him.

    So it doesn’t take much then for the egotism of these politicians to win out and so now everyone thinks that they should just keep running, whether they win or lose the primary. i mean i can’t fault Lieberman for doing what he did, but i think you are right, this is getting ridiculous.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  46. “Character matters”

    Then show some.

    The Tea Party’s agenda will not be served in 2012 and following when the executive and legislative branches are working in concert with progressives sprinkled liberally in key Senate committees and caucuses.

    We don’t simply need our Social Security benefits gutted and our taxes temporarily increased, we need to significantly reduce the size and scope of Federal government. We need to eliminate, e.g., the Dept. of Education, along with scores of agencies. We need to rescind regulatory authority from the EPA, the Dept. of the Interior and restore 100s of millions of Federal acres to the states.

    In 2010 and 2012 we need to purge the GOP as well as replace sitting Congressmen. Got a problem with the interim reformers? Deal with them at the next turn.

    You folks-Rico included-”look in the mirror and forget what you saw when you turn away”. We’re in this mess because Congress stands on one principle alone, gathering more power to themselves.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  47. Cap n Trade, is a fraud of proportions, that would make Madoff grin in admiration, in it’s audacity.
    Crush American industry with subsidies for a select
    few, immiserate the majority, the CHicago Climate
    Exchange, brought to you by the folks who mismanaged
    Fannie and Freddie. The DISCLOSE act, from the folks that brought you McCain/Feingold but made the world safe for Astroturf

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  48. Not just an idiot, but a jack@ass, and an @ss. And he claim some kind of superiority for having written a book. By his standards, Barcky wrote 2 books, so he must be twice as smart as Levin. Good Allah, people can be … people.

    JD (80be5e)

  49. mmm… i am not sure about the factual claims because of my inability to care about delaware, but Levin was pretty quick to call Patterico names. Also Patterico is low balling Levin’s jerkiness. idiot is the most minor insult levin leveled at Patterico.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  50. Who is Mirengoff? Really, who is he and why is he fighting with the Great One.

    Greg Merle (eabb19)

  51. Y’all startin’ to act like Dim0crats.
    Chill out, grab a beer, and watch Dim0crats tear each other to shreads.

    In the short run, that’s what the nation needs.

    @Harry_Bergeron (d565d0)

  52. People like Levin is the reason I stopped listening to most “conservative” talk radio. Their MO is to shout people down, instead of reason.

    nk (db4a41)

  53. @Greg and Harry – Maybe if the “Great One” didn’t play so fast and loose with the facts, this would not have been brought to people’s attention. Responding in the manner in which he did just does further damage to his reputation.

    JD (80be5e)

  54. As opposed to liberal talk radio, or the SRM that
    peddles the same Minitrue garbage, morning, news and night

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  55. 1) To say that Levin was distorting the Mirengoff post is an understatement. Levin seemed to be talking about some entirely different (and probably non-existent) post.

    2)To reinforce Dafydd’s point–and taking off from the mention of Charlie Crist bt Pat–take a page from what the Democrats in Florida are doing. One by one, they’re endorsing Crist over the official Democratic candidate, on the grounds that the Democrat (Meek) has no real chance of getting elected–and therefore Crist is the best chance to defeat Rubio (the GOP candidate) and keep the Florida seat out of conservative hands.

    kishnevi (1220e1)

  56. Crist is an unprincipled mook, that didn’t stop the party from pushing him for the Senate, then again,
    the leadership debauched the party’s coffers

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  57. Mike Castle is a post Constitutional Era progressive, that has placed a combination of leftist ideology and self serving interests above what is best for Delaware and our country. Like an old rotten log at the bottom of a polluted swamp, Mi…ke Castle has absorbed the poisons of a life time of political dealing and has become part and parcel of our current political malaise. The web of favors owed has extracted a price on his judgement, with the rest of US paying the bill… Christine O’Donnell is a Constitutional conservative, and enters the political fray as a citizen politician who would use the Constitution as her litmus test for legislation and fulfilling her roles of advise and consent. She brings with her a fresh perspective on governance, one that exemplifies the founding of our nation and a belief in American exceptionalism. There has never been a clearer choice.

    selfcenter (34d008)

  58. I think Riehl’s basic view is that Castle is less than a RINO–that he’s truly no better than a Democrat, and that electing him would be really the same as electing the official Democratic candidate.
    In fact, worse, since the Democrat isn’t loaded down with lobbyist-linked influence peddling.

    And Levin’s attitude seems to be that the GOP needs to be purged, general election be d-mned. Wonder what he’ll say when the general election comes up.
    Although when he complained about you complaining about ranting conservatives like Coulter and O’Reilly, I couldn’t help wonder about him being one of the ranters.

    kishnevi (1220e1)

  59. Hey Patterico – See my point now on Weigel? If Levin cant place you accurately in the blogosphere, why do you expect more of Weigel?

    Anyway, I have this dilemma:

    If I say I support you 100% in this — which I do, strictly on who is a better and more electable nominee, for the reasons you cited; plus Levin is nuts — Republicans, i.e. 90% of so of those who comment here, are going to want to side with crazytalk grifter lady.

    And if I say I support the nomination of crazytalk grifter lady — which I do, because it means the Dems retain the seat — then that 90% are going to want to go to Mister Most-Centrist-Admired-Politico in Delaware ever, making things more difficult for the Obama administration.

    What to do?

    shooter (32dc25)

  60. The lawsuit seems ill advised, if we had all the time in the world, one would ask her attorney who filed it. OTH, this is about as conservative as Castle is likely to get, Graham was solid, and look what a marshmallow he turned out to be, Voinivich,
    let’s not even dwell on him, too much.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  61. Levin says he has written about these issues since
    Here, apparently, is the post Levin meant. Which is simply a repeat and a defense of what he said in the first post, not a correction.

    And again, he seems unable to recognize that electability in a general election is completely different from the ability to win a primary among Republicans.

    kishnevi (1220e1)

  62. shooter – That does not make your point, as you claim it to, since Weigel was already familiar with Patterico prior to the incident in question. Feel free to continue to make things up though. It appears to be one of your skills, like claiming 90% of the people here approve of O’Donnell. You would have had to have not read any of the threads about this topic to make such a statement. SHOCKA

    JD (80be5e)

  63. Levin, who has his good qualities mind you, is one reason why I miss Larry Elder so much. (Background for you non-LA folks: Larry Elder is a black “Republi-tarian” who had a great radio show during the evening drive time until a couple of years ago. Mark Levin’s syndicated show is there now.)

    Levin is great when I just want to hear someone bash the crap out of some concept that I already disagree with, but he’s no persuader, is he?

    Mitch (890cbf)

  64. cannibalism
    among R peeps not good thing
    Frum is scum crumb

    ColonelHaiku (3ec9fa)

  65. You’re Absolutely Right, Patterico.

    There has been way too much childish and intemperate namecalling, particularly by Levin and Riehl, on this race. Michelle Malkin has a much better take on this race today.

    Support of O’Donnell or Castle doesn’t define whether one is a “True conservative”. As Malkin and others have pointed out, there are real grassroots conservatives on both sides of this race and each has legitimate reasons for their posture. Conservative activists who have proven time and again not to be party hacks should not be smeared by the likes of Levin a Riehl. Those guys need to grow up.

    Jeremy (34eb05)

  66. kishnevi’s link didn’t take, so here’s the Levin link:

    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=430147665945

    Levin avoids addressing the flat-out false stuff in his original post. And he seems oddly proud that his half-truth about the Miers nomination was half-true.

    And then, in the same graf where he accuses Mirengoff of putting up a strawman, he tries to change the subject to NV and KY — though Levin has no idea what Mirengoff has said about those races.

    Finally, I have to laugh at Levin calling Pat names. Pat notes how much Levin’s attack on bloggers sounds like a CNN exec circa 2004, but I can’t help but note that someone with Levin’s audience taking on bloggers is engaging a severe case of “punching down.” Who exactly is the “idiot” and “jackass” in such a situation?

    Karl (f07e38)

  67. “Some conservatives apparently don’t want to put our reputations behind someone who appears to be a liar.”

    Not to mention the fact that she preaches fiscal responsibility, but is constantly in trouble for not paying her bills.

    Frankly, I think she’s one of the worst candidates I’ve ever seen. She makes newt Gingrich look like a standup guy.

    Sorry, a pretty face and a lot of conservative rhetoric don’t cut it. You gotta actually walk that walk, not just talk that talk.

    Dave Surls (6b4fc2)

  68. How much you want to bet that Castle runs as an Indy if he loses the primary? Those saying this will all be over tomorrow night might be counting their chickens a little too early.

    Drury (91c717)

  69. We can argue all we want about who is best candidate to win the Senate seat in Delaware but there is no denying the fact that Castle went negative first. In fact that has been the entire Castle campaign stategy up until this point. I have voted for Castle in every election in the past, I will not this time not b/c I nessesarily like O’Donnell but b/c I am disgusted by the tactics that have been used by the Republican Party of Delaware and the Castle Campaign.

    Dan Patrick (411495)

  70. Is the question of who went negative first under debate, or relevant to well … anything?

    JD (80be5e)

  71. shooter

    are you under the impression that any one of us cares what you think about anything? Your ideas only have a tangential relationship to truth, common sense, etc.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  72. “Levin is great when I just want to hear someone bash the crap out of some concept that I already disagree with, but he’s no persuader, is he?”

    Then it doesn’t matter if he’s wrong!

    imdw (ca9f6c)

  73. Now Patterico and Castle are really in for it: crazy grifter lady claims to have what she calls Hillary Democrats behind her campaign; meaning, assuming that is true (admittedly, a novel approach for crazy grifter lady) the ranks of the registered Republicans in Delaware have been infested with Hillary Democrats. And we all know how those Hillary Democrats are really secret Republican supporters who can easily take over a primary process and put the kibosh to the opposition, just like they did to the Obama candidacy.

    shooter (32dc25)

  74. If “going negative first” was a disqualifier, half of the GOP incumbents would already be going down in flames. And a higher percentage of GOP primary winners running for vacant seats.

    Tully (62151d)

  75. Patterico – Do you still think shooter is capable of honest and rational discussion?

    JD (80be5e)

  76. @John Hitchcock “24.Kevin, I already said previously that RCP shows Republicans picking up Delaware and holding 49 seats. I think it is your knee jerking this time.”

    I believe that projection was based on Castle winning the primary and running against Coombs. It would need to be re-scored should O’Donnell win as she’s currently -10 pts against Coombs while Castle is +10pts.

    @Greg Merle: “48.Who is Mirengoff? Really, who is he and why is he fighting with the Great One”

    Mirengoff is one of the guys writing over at Powerline Blog and he’s “fighting” with Levin because Levin mischaracterized or was just wrong about what he said in a posting and he (Levin) launched the attack.

    I caught Levin’s first attack piece and I commented on Facebook that he (Levin) was wrong and that Mirengoff was right. Leven replied back with a snide post and I replied once again explaining why he was wrong there as well.

    Then, I was blocked from commenting any further on Levin’s page and all my posts were deleted.

    If you look at the comments on that page now, you will see that every single one of them voice agreement with Levin.

    That’s because dissention apparently can’t exist in Levin’s Universe.

    I see in comments on his other notes that others have had the same thing happen.

    Demosthenes9 (f2aebd)

  77. Levin has lost his mind, as have most Republicans who have jumped on the O’Donnell bandwagon. Levin was outed as a liar by the Power Line guys, so I hope those who are looking to take a side on this issue remember this.

    East Coast Chris (ded5f2)

  78. “This sort of divisive, exclusionary attitude is a sure ticket to perpetual minority status”

    Ridiculous on its face.
    Every study done shows that “Compassionate Conservatism” was the main reason Bush’s races were so close, and didn’t have to be.
    Run conservative and you win big.
    But he didn’t.
    He listened to the same elitist RINOs who are now being purged and who are frantic to hold on to power.
    Well, the arrogant squishies had their chance and failed utterly.
    So they’re out.
    If that is “exclusionary,” tough fricking luck.

    democratsarefascists (5a5d33)

  79. “East Coast Chris”

    The name says it all.

    democratsarefascists (5a5d33)

  80. We’ve been told for years that only RINOs stand a chance of getting elected in Blue States, we suffered the likes of Lincoln Chafee (RI-Senate) because of that. In 2006, the Democrats ran a Blue-Dog to Chaffe’s right and beat him.

    If all we ever offer them are Progressive-lite candidates, how will we ever know when they are fed up with Progressiveism?

    And how will we ever shake off the establishment’s bad policies and corruption if only establishment candidates are in the race?

    LarryD (f22286)

  81. “The name says it all.”

    Impressive. Most impressive. Levin has taught you well. You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger.

    imdw (603c39)

  82. The Poweline guy now targeting Levin describes himself:
    “I am conservative but not doctrinally so: for example, I am pro-gay rights; in favor of a “beyond all possible doubt” standard for death-penalty cases (and am very concerned about innocents on Death Row); anti-Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly, and other conservatives whose rantings give sensible conservatives a bad name.”

    In other words, he’s a liberal who lacks the guts to admit it.

    Mike (5a5d33)

  83. i.e. 90% of so of those who comment here, are going to want to side with crazytalk grifter lady.

    You seem to be under the impression that this blog is named the Daily Kos or DU – please check your notes and start posting over there, they’re the ones who only allow dogmatic ideology to grace their threads. But hey, thanks for playing.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  84. You know, i looked into the claims about her lawsuit. i have to say it is thin gruel. okay this is what i got out of it.

    1) she asked for a dubiously high amount. This would make her the first person in the history of the world to use a lawsuit to make money.

    2) her lawyer alleged she needed therapy, was a nervous wreck, etc. its alleged all the time, and meaningless.

    3) he lawyer implied she was going to classes at princeton. okay, and? her lawyer screwing up is not much evidence of her mental status.

    Pretty thin, and pointless.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  85. Michelle Malkin has a much better take on this race today.

    Conservative activists who have proven time and again not to be party hacks should not be smeared by the likes of Levin a Riehl.

    Malkin agrees with Levin and Riehl on the merits of the candidates. That is, she’s hammering Castle and has endorsed O’Donnell.

    Subotai (594e9f)

  86. Patterico: Thank you for so nobly coming to the aid of Powerline’s Dartmouth boys. Just the facts! Why, Levin and Riehl (and other blue-collar supporters of that plebeian lass, O’Donnell) ought to know better than to challenge their social betters — true BlueBlood GOP Scions like Castle — and Mierengoff! And, as to your overly-sedulous concerns for Ms O’Donnell’s “honesty,” all I have to say is: “Huh?” This is a race for the U.S. Senate (not for a bishopric) — a place where thugs like Kennedy and Dodd are held in high esteem. Apparently — unlike you, most of us unwashed Tea Party folks in fly-over country understand implicitly that — in comparison to the records of “Solons” like these — Ms O’Donnell’s foibles appear Mother Theresa-like in gravity. Man up: The only issue in the DE Republican Primary is conservative v. RINO. You are apparently backing the RINO. That’s your choice. But, not mine.

    man_in_tx (95c802)

  87. 82.You know, i looked into the claims about her lawsuit. i have to say it is thin gruel. okay this is what i got out of it.

    1) she asked for a dubiously high amount. This would make her the first person in the history of the world to use a lawsuit to make money.

    2) her lawyer alleged she needed therapy, was a nervous wreck, etc. its alleged all the time, and meaningless.

    3) he lawyer implied she was going to classes at princeton. okay, and? her lawyer screwing up is not much evidence of her mental status.

    Pretty thin, and pointless.

    Comment by Aaron Worthing — 9/13/2010 @ 11:46 am

    Anyone willing to make the claim that some conservative group’s beliefs are that women should be subordinate can can’t be in positions of management is not a conservative. is there a more cliche liberal talking point.

    And, having defended companies for over 10 years in employment discrimination litigation, saying that the plaintiff has no accountability for what is in a Complaint is sad. they hire the attorney, they tell the attorney what they believe the facts are. The attorney just writes them up and has the plaintiff look it over to make sure it is all correct.

    this complaint reads like every other nut-job makign a frivolous discrimination claim. She was a lousy employee who believes she is the subject of a grand conspiracy to get her and that she is entitled to do whatever she wants with no consequences.

    I’m sorry, but anyone bringing such a lawsuit is not conservative at heart. She is merely an opportunist. Even if she is spouting the most conservative points right now, if she manages to get elected, her opportunist side will come out and she’ll be a bigger rhino than even Castle.

    Castle is a lousy republican. He is damn close to being a dem based on his voting record. But, he has a much better chance of winning this election.

    The only question is whether you want to win with a rhino or loose with a nut that currently professes to be conservative.

    Monkeytoe (5234ab)

  88. Levin is a lot full of himself I piss on his head even though I think I mostly agree with him.

    Niceness counts.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  89. “As Malkin and others have pointed out, there are real grassroots conservatives on both sides of this race and each has legitimate reasons for their posture”

    That may be Malkin and Reynolds’ position, but it’s an unqualified opinion. They do not actually look into the merits of the ‘legitimate reasons’ nor define and identify ‘real grassroots conservatives’.

    As we’ve argued without rebuttal Castle serves no purpose. A 51 seat majority in the Senate is reservered for issues like ‘Mother Teresa Memorial Day’, so what.

    Charges levelled against O’D are long on amorphous innuendo, like Rico’s ‘couldn’t answer questions from radio jockey’. Now maybe he could come up with a detailed investigation but is this a Charlie Gibson kind of interview, where he has no clue on the arcane?

    Tomorrow night, it’ll all be over. Whether Coons wins will be anticlimactic. But in anycase the GOP power brokers are on the run. Mission accomplished.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  90. It’s like the difference between being hit in the head with a hammer or an axe; O’Donnel being the axe.

    Chris Hooten (0bb4d1)

  91. Man up: The only issue in the DE Republican Primary is conservative v. RINO.

    “Man up?”

    What in the world? The issue for many is character. You are basing your ‘conservative’ on the promises of a provably dishonest politician. Good luck with that.

    And the issue for many is also the fact that a Republican has to overcome a 15 percent + disadvantage to win in Delaware. This is a valuable Senate seat that the GOP can’t win without a miracle like a very successful former governor and moderate. It sure can’t win this seat with O’Donnell, even before we consider her amazing set of negative characteristics.

    You say it’s about conservative vs RINO because you’re lazy. The issues are more complicated than that super easy choice. That’s what some radio personalities do… pretend every tough choice is actually extremely simple by ignoring most of the problems.

    And the best way to dig into these problems is to read Powerline. They aren’t playing cheap tricks, but they also aren’t giving you the Reader’s Digest simple version. If you can read their few posts on this subject carefully, and you have an open mind, I think you can at least grant that the situation is not as simple as ‘Rino vs conservative’.

    The Poweline guy now targeting Levin describes himself:
    “I am conservative but not doctrinally so: for example, I am pro-gay rights; in favor of a “beyond all possible doubt” standard for death-penalty cases (and am very concerned about innocents on Death Row); anti-Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly, and other conservatives whose rantings give sensible conservatives a bad name.”

    In other words, he’s a liberal who lacks the guts to admit it.

    Comment by Mike

    No, in other words, he’s a principled conservative who doesn’t like loud mouthed personalities that embarrass the movement for max ratings in the short term. Losers like Levin who love screwing up the actual movement to reform government in exchange for a little attention.

    There is nothing unreasonable about the quote you think is impossible to marry with conservatism. Powerline has been one of the strongest blogs for actual depth, taking apart Obamanomics, looking into attacks on the Bush administration, and discussing actual solutions to our problems as a country.

    Leadership is not blind loyalty to a ‘the great one’ or Sean Hannity or dumb opposition to democrats. We’ve actually got to clean up the mess, too. Levin reminds me of the loud GOP minority that persists forever, moaning about democrats, and then chokes the second they take power because they weren’t prepared.

    Levin has egg on his face because he obviously didn’t read Powerline and didn’t understand their points. The only explanation for this is that he doesn’t have the horsepower upstairs. It’s the difference between a Rush Limbaugh and a Bill O’Reilly.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  92. man_in_tx, et al.

    Or maybe the Powerline guys and Patterico believe the polls saying O’Donnell is unlikely to win the general, but that Castle is unlikely to lose the general.

    Maybe they are more concerned with winning the war than this particular battle.

    And your elitist “I’m more country than you” attitude isn’t all that compelling. Just sayin.

    Troll Feeder (d79689)

  93. It’s like the difference between being hit on the head with a hammer or an axe; O’Donnel being the axe.

    Chris Hooten (0bb4d1)

  94. Sorry about the repeat… There are problems with comments again… none appearing in this thread after I commented (not showing up for me). I am using chrome… FYI

    Chris Hooten (0bb4d1)

  95. Reasons 1,348,945 and 1,348,946 why I’m not a conservative:

    Levin bragged about being a former federale.

    Mike (80) just called the host a gutless liberal because he supports teh gays and prefers the state only kill guilty people.

    el duderino (fedc3d)

  96. It’s like the difference between being hit on the head with a hammer or an axe; O’Donnel being the axe.

    Comment by Chris Hooten

    LOL. That’s apt, Chris.

    I don’t really consider the implications of an O’Donnell Senate Office, because she simply can’t win Delaware, having lost her last race before so much scandal came out.

    But I am pretty sure she would be such a ridiculous RINO it would sting worse than Castle being who Castle says he is (which is to say, not conservative).

    This isn’t worth getting too bent out of shape (for us on the right). A loud ‘supporter’ of the movement has to be verified as not a crook. It’s a process the Tea Party is working on, and I think (hope) we won’t see this problem as badly in 2012 and 2014. When Castle loses, it will make it substantially harder to take the Senate majority, but that was a long shot anyway. And it will scare a lot of RINOs straight. It’s not my preference, but it’s really not the end of the world.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  97. Levin is appreciated for his passion, but should make the effort to be accurate. I have been reading Powerline for years and I appreciate their POV and they are true conservatives.
    Hate name calling b/c the left excels at that.
    I live in CA, so I understand that in a left leaning state you take what you can get.
    Squishy senators from conservative states like Utah or South Carolina are a disgrace, in the northeast or west coast, we need about as close to Scott Brown as we can get.

    John (cb1958)

  98. When Erick Erikson, after writing that he would “rather die a thousand times over via crushing by an anaconda while being torn limb from limb by a jaguar than see Mike Castle in the Senate,” can’t bring himself to actively support O’Donnell, one might be forgiven for thinking that she’s a problematic candidate. Indeed, when Erikson departs from the RedState credo of “conservative in the primary, GOP in the election” to say he would prefer a Dem get elected over Castle, but cannot bring himself to actively support O’Donnell, one might be forgiven for thinking that she’s a problematic candidate.

    Karl (f07e38)

  99. There may be something wrong with the comments, Chris, but I like your analogy (Levin listeners, an analogy is a comparison of things that have a similar relationship).

    Castle’s so wrong on some policies, but he can blunt the left leaning aspect of one Delaware Senate Seat, which has been powerfully statist for decades and will be pretty statist for the foreseeable future whether Castle or Coons wins.

    Coons would be much more statist than Castle, but both are unappealing to conservatives. O’Donnell would probably be a statist too, if she were to win election, but I don’t even know why she ran int he first place, since she lost so badly last time she ran. Anyhow, Hayworth would have won the general. Miller will. Fiorina may pull it off. O’Donnell is not like the others, firstly because she’s got no real record and she can’t be trusted, but also because she’s not a winner.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  100. Also, when Michelle Malkin, another O’Donnell supporter, has to complain about the uninformed accusations of other O’Donnell supporters, one might be forgiven for thinking that a segment of O’Donnell’s backers — including Levin — are not all that interested in dealing with facts.

    Karl (f07e38)

  101. Gary Galrud,

    We don’t agree on a lot of this issue, but you’ve held your own better than any other O’Donnell supporter I’ve seen. If Mark Levin was replaced with your arguments, I think everyone would benefit.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  102. Jeebus H. Cannoli! There’s a Republican primary in Delaware—just like there were a lot of Republican Senate primaries in other states–and folks in the other 49 (for Obama–in the other 56) states have their knickers in a colossal knot over the outcome? This whole tempest in a cracked pot somehow escapes me.

    Cuz I’m concentrating on having Fiorina boot Boxer out of the Senate come November 2. Let the Delaware Mudhens do whatever they’re going to do.

    Mike Myers (3c9845)

  103. Colonel call cento
    nope, no more nutty spending
    That’s right… I said it

    ColonelHaiku (3ec9fa)

  104. dang it all Myers!
    Colonel too slow on the draw
    you beat me to punch

    ColonelHaiku (3ec9fa)

  105. read powerline post
    say enuf with measuring
    conservative schvantz!

    ColonelHaiku (3ec9fa)

  106. “We don’t agree on a lot of this issue, but you’ve held your own better than any other O’Donnell supporter I’ve seen”

    Thank you Dustin. It’s an important primary, so I’m not terribly interested in all the slime(though I muck around at times, the flesh is weak).

    It’s the strategery(Bushism). 2010 will accomplish little other than hobbling El Chupacabra. The real battles are 2012 and following, God willing.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  107. Monkey

    > Anyone willing to make the claim that some conservative group’s beliefs are that women should be subordinate can can’t be in positions of management is not a conservative. is there a more cliche liberal talking point.

    Look, I am a basically conservative guy, but I don’t consider that automatically laughable or a liberal talking point. And I will add, that this is what HER LAWYER wrote in the context of a lawsuit. Some people read every words their lawyers write, and some don’t. the worst you could say about her is she said that in court in order to try to make money. Well, whoop de doo.

    > And, having defended companies for over 10 years in employment discrimination litigation, saying that the plaintiff has no accountability for what is in a Complaint is sad.

    I defend companies all the time. Don’t profess naivete here. You and I both know that the plaintiffs counsel spin whatever tales they want to, most of the time.

    > Even if she is spouting the most conservative points right now, if she manages to get elected, her opportunist side will come out and she’ll be a bigger rhino than even Castle.

    I am sorry, but if you are elected to repeal obamacare and the like, how is it opportunistic to repudiate the people who elected you? Wouldn’t life be simpler if you kept them happy?

    > Castle is a lousy republican. He is damn close to being a dem based on his voting record. But, he has a much better chance of winning this election.

    Well, that is a fair consideration.

    > The only question is whether you want to win with a rhino or loose with a nut that currently professes to be conservative.

    Is she a slut, too? lets go for the bifecta.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  108. “Whether Coons wins will be anticlimactic.”

    gary gulrud – Actually, if you evidenced any comprehension of the original Mirengoff post to which Levin took exception, you should understand that whether Coons wins is the only thing that matters. The primary doesn’t mean sh*t if you lose the general.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  109. some of y’all are a lot more harder on Mr. Levin’s mischaracterizations than you were on Mr. Breitbart’s recently

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  110. And I will add, that this is what HER LAWYER wrote in the context of a lawsuit.

    She eventually got a lawyer to amend her complaint, but actually, most of the hilarious stuff is from when she filed her own complaint pro se.

    And it’s barely intelligible in parts.

    She has earned these dings for that complaint.

    I am sorry, but if you are elected to repeal obamacare and the like, how is it opportunistic to repudiate the people who elected you? Wouldn’t life be simpler if you kept them happy?

    Actually, as simple as that would be, you’re conflating primary promises with general election promises. It’s very opportunistic, and almost cliche, for a politician to move to the center after nomination. I don’t know if O’Donnell is really running for election, though, since steering to the left would cause a instant implosion of her loyalists. She knows that she has to convince almost 50% more voters than she got last time she ran in the general, and she can’t.

    Even if she were scandal free, she just can’t sell herself to Delaware lefties and statists. And that’s a core problem with this race before we even look at candidates. Do we appeal to statists, cynically hoping to undermine them? Good people have taken either side, and hopefully we can all rally behind the GOP nominee tomorrow.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  111. #

    some of y’all are a lot more harder on Mr. Levin’s mischaracterizations than you were on Mr. Breitbart’s recently

    Comment by happyfeet

    Why is everyone looking at me?

    At any rate, the reason for this is pretty damn obvious, not to go back into it. Breitbart made errors, didn’t do enough homework, and ran corrections. I showed that via hyperlinks and all that crap. He was a lot more reasonable than some give him credit for being.

    Levin is not being reasonable, and he’s making errors he has no excuse to be making, and his arguments are ‘you are an idiot’ and to pretend the opposite of the truth he actually has access to. In order to sink Breitbart to that level, you need a truther-level conspiracy theory that he edited tapes and had perfect knowledge the entire time.

    Another issue is that Levin’s unhinged about a reasonable political calculation. Breitbart was justifiably angry with a high level bureaucrat who was praising her racism for not being as racist as she originally wanted it to be.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  112. Any other members of the 10% on this site that are not Rebuplicans, yet still disagree with shooter’s position want to chime in?

    Labeling & stereotyping: no good liberal should leave home without their deck of cards at the ready.

    Icy Texan (53225e)

  113. 92. Sorry about the repeat… There are problems with comments again… none appearing in this thread after I commented (not showing up for me).
    Comment by Chris Hooten — 9/13/2010 @ 12:27 pm

    – The real problem is that we can see them right away.

    Icy Texan (53225e)

  114. . Breitbart was justifiably angry with a high level bureaucrat who was praising her racism for not being as racist as she originally wanted it to be.

    Annnnd Breitbart was angry at the NAACP’s obvious hypocrisy. I always get eyerolls when I ask people to contemplate a Sherrod style story from a Tea Party speaker, to applause, reversing the races. Why? Because some people care what race you are when deciding if what you did was right and wrong, in particular in praising Sherrod.

    Anyway, Levin’s freaking about something a lot less freakworthy, and he’s got access to Powerline’s actual views since they are a website on the internet, rather than an edited NAACP vid.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  115. Karl–thanks for supplying the link.
    The reason I didn’t put it in was simple–cerebral afflatus (that’s technical talk for brain fart)
    When I realized I hadn’t put it in, it was too late, and when I went to repost, the site had gone down. I’m assuming a mass of Levin readers linked here and crashed the server (again).

    kishnevi (3721d8)

  116. It is as if some of these people have just lost their minds. I am beginning to think Levin is in love with Christine O’Donnell, I can not understand what else could make him lose his mind this way.

    But then again, there is Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity misrepresenting Castle’s record on some big votes like the stimulus and Obamacare. It is ridiculous. I have been reading Powerline for years, there is no way these guys are squishes..no way.

    I don’t know if O’Donnell will win or not. I think she is an opportunistic fraud who has latched onto the Tea Party for a free ride, but then I guess that makes me unpure as well. What bothers me is that I used to Levin and now I will never have the same faith in anything he says. And the same is true with a lot of other pundits and talk radio people.

    Terrye (84455a)

  117. Dustin

    > most of the hilarious stuff is from when she filed her own complaint pro se.

    That was not a fact the original article highlighted. When I have more time I will look into that, if the fact it is deleware doesn’t put me to sleep.

    > Actually, as simple as that would be, you’re conflating primary promises with general election promises.

    I don’t think she will lose by promising to work to repeal obamacare. I mean whathisface won in Massachusetts on the promise to block it. the public overwhelmingly hate what has been going on.

    > Even if she were scandal free, she just can’t sell herself to Delaware lefties and statists.

    Right, get the most conservative guy who can win. I think that isn’t crazy, but… there is something to be said for a person to be a hardcore conservative and win people over. I think sometimes people look at the question as being too static. So for me its not that simple.

    > hopefully we can all rally behind the GOP nominee tomorrow

    Well, to tell the truth, I am not a republican, so much as opposed to the democrats, right now. I literally have not been able to vote for a democrat since 2000. They either want to lose the war or turn us into a socialist state. Sigh. But same difference. Castle or Donnell, if I was a delewarian (sp?) I would vote against the democrat.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  118. Reasons 1,348,945 and 1,348,946 why I’m not a conservative:

    My personal definitions of libertarian (I am one) and conservative (I am not)

    A libertarian is against government interfering in anyone’s life, except when (to quote FedEx) it’s absolutely positively necessary.

    A conservative is against government interfering in his/her life–but other people’s lives, that’s okay, as long as it’s for a goal he/she approves.

    kishnevi (3721d8)

  119. Mitch: “he’s [Levin] no persuader, is he?”

    Then it doesn’t matter if he’s wrong!
    Comment by imdw — 9/13/2010 @ 10:19 am

    *step* *swing* *fwap!* “Ow, my nose!”
    Nobody EVER said that he fails to persuade some people into believing some crazy, wrongheaded things.

    Icy Texan (53225e)

  120. there is something to be said for a person to be a hardcore conservative and win people over.

    -Aaron

    Amen. In fact, at some point we really must have this happen, even in places like Delaware, if we’re going to turn the tide. Right now, we have people rejecting democrat screw ups after rejecting Republican screw ups. The Tea Party efforts are conservatives actually standing up and making a positive case. Someone has to eventually try to win some statists over to the cause of reform and limited government.

    I bet a lot of O’donnell supporters are skeptical this time will ever come, so they are saying we need to do it now with O’Donnell as spokesperson. I respect that a lot. [Insert caveats about O'Donnell again].

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  121. “some of y’all are a lot more harder on Mr. Levin’s mischaracterizations than you were on Mr. Breitbart’s recently”

    Mr. Feets – FAIL. Which of Breitbart’s errors remained uncorrected after they were pointed out? Compare that with Levin’s uncorrected original Facebook post and continued jackassery. FAIL.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  122. That piece of audio; re Shirley, had been released two weeks before Breitbart got a hold of it, on a US agriculture site,, I recall.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  123. The Good News500,000 gov’t workers cut, salaries reformed
    The Bad News … it’s Cuba

    Neo (7830e6)

  124. when Erikson departs from the RedState credo of “conservative in the primary, GOP in the election” to say he would prefer a Dem get elected over Castle, but cannot bring himself to actively support O’Donnell, one might be forgiven for thinking that she’s a problematic candidate.

    I don’t think that Red State has ever been terribly dogmatic about sticking to that credo, so that’s no big departure from it on Erikson’s part.

    Subotai (594e9f)

  125. feets really needs to let go of the Breitbart and Palin thing.

    Dmac (d61c0d)

  126. Dmac – Journaling helps me to let go get centered. I know feets uses it too. That and anime costumes.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  127. I might have made some of that up. I don’t journal.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  128. I don’t think that Red State has ever been terribly dogmatic about sticking to that credo, so that’s no big departure from it on Erikson’s part.

    Comment by Subotai

    ?he handled the Will Folks deal so spectacularly poorly, IMO, that I haven’t paid much attention to him in a while. But I’m not aware of any examples of him leaving that credo.

    What Redstate endorsements of candidates and election analysis are you referring to? I think the argument you’re rebutting is actually very powerful.

    A lot of reasonable people are picking either side of this one because it’s a hard call. Malkin’s right that this isn’t a good proxy for any pundit’s conservatism or value, and Redstate backing Castle is indeed amazing. It speaks to the larger issues and the specific and smaller details about Castle’s challenger.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  129. super saiyan goku rocks

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  130. ‘eh Happyfeet?

    Google says that’s from Dragonball, but all I know about Dragonball comes from Robot Chicken.

    I thought ‘subotai’ was a reference to Conan the Barbarian, not some crappy cartoon. Am I wrong?

    Or is happyfeet just confusing me again? Tricky disco.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  131. Subotai,

    If you have other examples of Erikson/RedState explicitly stating they prefer a Democrat, I’d be glad to read them. My impression is it’s a bit out of the ordinary.

    Karl (2c1698)

  132. Dustin,

    RedState isn’t backing Castle, which makes Erickson’s refusal to lift a finger for O’Donnell more telling, imho.

    Karl (2c1698)

  133. I get mixed up too Mr. Dustin.

    Mr. Dmac I wish Sarah Palin would just say oh btw? not running for president and then everyone could have cupcakes together and think about who they wanted for to be president after this loser one we have now.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  134. I take some quantum of solace in that O’Donnell’s online support seems to be imploding today. PowerLine, Patterico, Weekly Standard, NRO, they’re all going after Levin and Riehl.

    Think about the next 2 months with O’Donnell as the nominee. It’s Angle times 10, in a deep blue state. Not good for the party at all.

    wt (52a9ee)

  135. “I take some quantum of solace”

    wt – Ohai, your solace is our number one concern.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  136. Look, Mark Levin is just playing to his audience, same way all radio personalities do. He is not going to persuade anyone not predisposed to listening to him (and yes, he DOES have a voice amde for blogging.) In a lot of ways, he is the Vic the Brick of political commentary.

    MunDane68 (54a83b)

  137. Redstate backing Castle is indeed amazing

    Well, RedState is not backing Castle. And I don’t consider them to be the acme of conservatism on the web in any case.

    Subotai (594e9f)

  138. If you have other examples of Erikson/RedState explicitly stating they prefer a Democrat, I’d be glad to read them. My impression is it’s a bit out of the ordinary.

    I would hope that it’s out of the ordinary. But it happens from time to time. Here’s an example.

    Subotai (594e9f)

  139. Comments not working?

    Subotai (594e9f)

  140. I thought ’subotai’ was a reference to Conan the Barbarian, not some crappy cartoon. Am I wrong?

    Man, nobody learns history anymore. Subotai was a Mongol general. (Though I do approve of your taste in movies)

    Subotai (594e9f)

  141. Very funny dude. The point is that even Red State is stepping back from the ledge. I wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t seen it myself.

    You guys know that O’Donnell won’t even come close, right? It’ll be Sharon Angle times 10 for two months. I wouldn’t be surprised if she actually makes it into Democrat ads in other states because she’s such a trainwreck.

    wt (52a9ee)

  142. Patterico, Levin may be right that you are an “idiot.”

    Let me explain: In this post you propagate the outright lie that Mark Levin is a conservative fighter. He is not. Right now, he is actively fighting, trying to get a Democrat elected. He uses his show every day to try to get O’Donnell, who has a track record of suing conservative groups for millions and lying about attending Princeton, nominated instead of a Republican who will help the GOP advance the cause of taking back Senate and pushing for conservative policies.

    Actually a Smart Guy (4f357b)

  143. I just heard Krauthammer go after Palin’s endorsement of O’Donnell. I always liked Palin, but I have to admit handing Delaware to the Democrats because you want to nominate someone who can not win a general election seems pointless in the extreme. CK used words like capricious and destructive. The thing is if this was Alaska it would be different, but trying to force the GOP to nominate someone who can not win a general election is ridiculous. It matters where you are and what and who the electorate is.

    Terrye (368a41)

  144. Mike Castle is not a conservative he’s a butt weasel.

    there’s a difference.

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  145. “CK used words like capricious and destructive”

    To describe Palin? Welcome to the club.

    imdw (043f60)

  146. Actually a Smart Guy – Read the post again “smart guy.”

    daleyrocks (940075)

  147. imdw – Are you srill trying to get a grip on your masturbation policy?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  148. I think Michelle Malkin’s take needs to be posted here:

    “Guess what? You can be a “TRUE CONSERVATIVE,” a blogger behind a keyboard, a talk show host behind a mic, a prime-time TV host in front of a camera, a Beltway pundit, or a heartland Tea Party activist and come to different, good-faith conclusions about this race. I know people in both the Castle camp and the O’Donnell camp. I’m not going to deride or disown my friends in the blogosphere or anywhere else because we disagree. That’s, well, unhinged.

    Everyone get a grip. Take a deep breath. Fight your best fight. Make your best arguments. Wait for the votes to be counted. Then march on and move forward.”

    I’ll add to this a little Pink Floyd (or was it Lincoln?): Together we stand, divided we fall.

    Keep it together people!!

    stout77 (a8d3e4)

  149. Levin does distort. Bad. But I agree with Levin’s larger point. I find Mis’s post a little too “sot” for my flavor.

    On the margin, Country Club Republicans will use the “too radical to win” line to support RINOs in opposition to more Rightist Candidates.

    And yes, Castle is a concern from a Conservatives view. I don’t view him as an ally to conservative causes in as much as he likes being in office.

    HeavenSent (e230a5)

  150. Why? You curious about this?

    imdw (8bb588)

  151. imdw:

    I don’t think he was using those words to describe her personally so much as he was talking about the last minute endorsement.

    Krauthammer was on Special Report, the panel.

    Terrye (d6aeed)

  152. Heaven sent:

    Oh please. This is Delaware we are talking about. The truth is it is very unlikely that Levin would ever support anyone who could win in that state. It is a blue state with a lot more Democrats and Democrat leaners than some state like Alaska, if someone could win a state wide election there then chances are he or she would be too far left for Levin…which means I guess we are supposed to nominate losers forever to prove how conservative we are…or something. If conservatives would work harder to come up with someone like say Chris Christie in that state then maybe you could win with a conservative, but then again Christie endorsed Castle. So I guess he on the shit list too.

    Terrye (d6aeed)

  153. If Patterico can work himself up to right a book about how his dog died, and it was sad, then maybe he can be as smart as Mark Levin someday. Then he can name his next dogs super-smart names, like “Sprite”, and “Pepsi”.

    Oh, and have a radio show. Because talking on radio means you are teh smartestest person.

    Leviticus (30ac20)

  154. The point is that even Red State is stepping back from the ledge.

    Even Red State!

    Are there actually people (on the right) who regard Red State as the tip of the conservative spear?

    That aside, I don’t think their refusing to endorse anyone in this race is very shocking. Heck, it’s basically my own position.

    Subotai (594e9f)

  155. it’s a nice situation cause there’s a lot of upside no matter how it goes down

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  156. Someone actually thinks Harry Reid has a snowball’s chance in Nevada to win his race?

    I think that is comedy gold!

    ColonelHaiku (3ec9fa)

  157. primary challenges are the almost the best thing ever if you don’t count tasty lemon pinot grigio cupcakes

    plus it’s a lot democratic

    happyfeet (19c1da)

  158. “Someone actually thinks Harry Reid has a snowball’s chance in Nevada to win his race?”

    Doesn’t he have a lead similar to O’Donnel’s against Castle?

    ““Guess what? You can be a “TRUE CONSERVATIVE,” a blogger behind a keyboard, a talk show host behind a mic, a prime-time TV host in front of a camera, a Beltway pundit, or a heartland Tea Party activist and come to different, good-faith conclusions about this race”

    Michelle Malkin is usually very open-minded.

    imdw (0275b8)

  159. Well, RedState is not backing Castle. And I don’t consider them to be the acme of conservatism on the web in any case.

    Comment by Subotai

    Good point. I stand corrected.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  160. Subotai,

    I don’t know exactly what is meant by RedState being the “tip of the spear” or not. However, they clearly would like to be the conservative version of dKos. They are — according to Technorati — the number 12 political blog on the ‘net and in the Top 100 overall. That’s why Erikson has some gig on CNN, which is a bit of a megaphone. So when he “pulls the plug” on O’Donnell, despite his clear hatred for Castle, it’s a red flag within the Rightosphere and the media.

    Also, contrast Erikson’s post with the Krepansky link you posted. The latter was an actual positive endorsement of a Dem on the merits. Here, Erikson only wants a Dem in comparison to Castle — and he still isn’t going to flack for O’Donnell, despite preferring her to both Castle and the Dem on policy grounds.

    Karl (83846d)

  161. I think most of that was directed at her former partnership at Hot Air, and more against Allah
    then anything else. We’ve seen this technique before
    employed against Palin, then Haley and now McDonnell, one no longer assumes good faith in these instances

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  162. Patrick, I’ve written a book. It is even still selling six years after it came out. Does that make me better than you ?

    Just asking. Frankly I’ve never heard Mark Levin’s show and don’t know where his blog is. I think I heard a few seconds of it while I was driving in the east one time. I remember him saying “Get off my telephone !” I guess that qualifies as brilliance among those of us who’ve written books.

    I must try it sometime.

    Mike K (11fb04)

  163. Well, seeing as how Castle voted to impeach Bush, I would hold my nose and vote for O’Donnell, hoping that she would rise to the occasion. And even if she loses in the general election, maybe her nomination would at least inspire more conservative women to run. As far as honesty, it’s very troubling that O’Donnell frequently seems to get her facts wrong (e.g. about whether Castle voted for the stimulus, whether she beat Biden in any counties, whether the sale of her house was private instead of court-ordered). But at least she didn’t vote to impeach Bush. If she does nit come across as more forthright than she comes across now, she’ll deserve to lose the general election; she’ll need either fake sincerity or (preferably) the real thing.

    Andrew (eebbda)

  164. Dustin in #91 parried with: “You say it’s about conservative vs RINO because you’re lazy. The issues are more complicated than that super easy choice. That’s what some radio personalities do… pretend every tough choice is actually extremely simple by ignoring most of the problems.”

    Hmmm. For many years, I have heard liberals throw up the “but, it’s more complicated than that” smokescreen when presented with simple, obvious observations of truth.

    So, I guess it really IS about “RINO v. conservative,” after all. (Whether or not I am lazy is beside the point. :-) )

    man_in_tx (746649)

  165. Did Castle really vote to impeach Bush?

    JD (8ded14)

  166. Looks like I have to amend my comment above at 7:08 PM. I haven’t seen evidence that Castle voted to impeach Bush, so that claim is unsubstantiated. Castle voted for a “motion to refer”. Peter King did too. It was a procedural vote to set up the actual vote on the impeachment, on which Castle apparently voted no. Castle may have voted the way he did to force the debate to continue so they could embarrass the Democrats. I would still prefer O’Donnell as Senator, but would vote for Castle because he has a better chance of winning the general election.

    Andrew (eebbda)

  167. , I have heard liberals throw up the “but, it’s more complicated than that” smokescreen when presented with simple, obvious observations of truth.

    That’s interesting. I’ve heard zealots repeat their conclusion when someone exposes their lack of an argument, over and over again.

    Other issues have been noted. You’re ignoring them. I could guess why, but it’s not important. You say this is about a conservative… who is the conservative? What evidence have you brought to show this?

    The reason you skip over that might not be because your evidence sucks. Show me. I think there’s more evidence O’Donnell is a terrible spender with low reform aptitude than there is that she’s a conservative. Her word is not worth much to me.

    Anyway, it’s no surprise you have to coat your conclusion in pretty words like obvious, truth, simple, and smear my point with ‘smokescreen’ and ‘liberal’ (boooggggga boooooogaaa!!!!!). You have to do that because my criticism of your argument is rock solid.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  168. #

    Did Castle really vote to impeach Bush?

    Comment by JD — 9/13/2010 @ 7:30 pm

    If he did, I’m going to donate $100 to O’Donnell right this evening. And that is no snark whatsoever.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  169. Castle voted NO to referring impeachment to the House Judiciary Committee.

    I guess the O’Donnell whisper campaign continues? I’ve heard a lot of nutty lies about Castle.

    Can’t you just say the truth? Castle’s record is terrible without making stuff up.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  170. Roll 492 was merely on sending the impeaching to the Judiciary Committee. Castle isn’t on that committee, and that committee did not hold impeachment proceedings and hte House never voted on impeachment itself.

    Still, Castle voted against even sending a matter to be considered (in other words, he voted against any Bush impeachment occurring).

    All you have to say to prove he’s a hopeless statist is post a damn link to Castle talking. It’s beyond question. Or cite cap and tax. Why make up a smear? Do these people just not get what’s wrong with Castle’s record? It’s not that he’s a successful lawyer, has a few million, or was in politics for a long time (much of it, as a balanced budget business friendly governor of low taxes and clean government, BTW). The problem is that he’s a statist.

    This is similar to how O’Donnell would not stop attacking Castle for being from a wealthy family, instead of so poor he would have to borrow for school as O’Donnell did (I have no idea if these claims were correct). That kind of attack misses the problem with Castle. There’s nothing wrong with being successful. There’s a lot wrong with cap and tax.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  171. I could kind of understand reacting with “see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil” irritation and naivete at people challenging O’Donnell if the election on Tuesday weren’t a primary but instead was the vote pitting the Republican against the Democrat. Moreover, it’s not like Delaware is an uber-red state, chock full of voters who will always guarantee the success of any Republican candidate in the general election.

    I’ll only give some latitude to people like Mark Levin for perhaps suffering from shell shock. Or the effect caused by all the mindless, nonsensical liberalism that has been corrupting this country since 2008. That’s enough to make anyone lose some sanity. But only SOME — repeat SOME — sanity.

    Mark (411533)

  172. The Powerline blog has a good post up debunking the “Castle voted to impeach Bush” nonsense.

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/09/027220.php

    Andrew (eebbda)

  173. Powerline blog debunks impeachment nonsense

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/09/027220.php

    Andrew (eebbda)

  174. I’m reading a few people say Castle voted yes to this resolution.

    But the link I posted seems to say Castle voted no. Can someone clarify for me if I’m wrong about this?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  175. The Powerline blog has a good post up debunking the impeachment nonsense. See powerlineblog dot com.

    Andrew (eebbda)

  176. OK, I found a link to a vote for the Kucinich Privilege Resolution, where Castle voted to send it to committee. This is HR 1258.

    Powerline shows that this was an attempt to send it to committee to die, confirmed by Castle’s comment on what he was doing.

    And the link I posted above was for House Resolution 1345. Neither time did Castle vote in favor of the resolution, but one time he voted to send this matter to committee.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  177. Sorry for repetition. Computer problems.

    Andrew (eebbda)

  178. Andrew, you’re a stand up guy to amend your comment. It’s lame that we have to do research into claims from major pundits like Levin or Rheil, but thanks for helping me figure out what’s up.

    Either way, the resolution passed, and Bush wasn’t impeached. I think this is one of the lamest last second attacks I’ve ever seen.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  179. The fact there was even such a resolution, indicates how totally stupid the Congress has become, this is the same Congress that didn’t timely provision the troops during the Surge, that almost never actually comes up with a budget. They don’t read bill, apparently neither do their staff before signing them.

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  180. Either way, the resolution referral passed, and Bush wasn’t impeached. I think this is one of the lamest last second attacks I’ve ever seen.

    Comment by Dustin — 9/13/2010 @ 8:36 pm

    It’s a great smear. It’s tough to stamp out and it gets people irritated quickly. It’s about archaic stuff and it’s easy to get tongue tied.

    Rheil and Levin should be ashamed of themselves. This is no better than the Rathergate smear. Next time you see the democrats pull some shameful dishonest stunt and think to yourself how the Republicans never stoop to that kind of nonsense, remember this one. We’ve got to weed these SOBs out of the movement if we are ever going to reform the federal government.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  181. I don’t know exactly what is meant by RedState being the “tip of the spear” or not.

    It’s not complicated. Somebody seemed shocked that “even RedState” was not supporting O’Donnell, as if it was some bastion of far-right purists. I scoffed at that idea.

    However, they clearly would like to be the conservative version of dKos.

    Well, our opinions differ on that. No offense if you’re a contributor there, but that’s not how I see RedState.

    Here, Erikson only wants a Dem in comparison to Castle — and he still isn’t going to flack for O’Donnell, despite preferring her to both Castle and the Dem on policy grounds.

    Fine. But you’re the one who thinks that Erikson’s opinions carry a lot of weight. I never read that site, and I never even see it being linked by other sites on the right.

    Also, Erikson’s stance (basically, screw both Castle and O’Donnell) does not really support the pro-Castle position. In the event that all Republicans decided to heed his position, either one of them would lose in the general.

    Now, maybe that’s not such a bad thing, but since the pro-Castle people are yelling about not throwing the race to Coons, it is the sort of thing they should be very upset with.

    Subotai (69764f)

  182. “Actually, if you evidenced any comprehension of the original Mirengoff post to which Levin took exception, you should understand that whether Coons wins is the only thing that matters. The primary doesn’t mean sh*t if you lose the general”

    Hey, does somebody have plans for this pot? I think the plant’s dead.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  183. It will be annoying if Coons wins, but that’s honestly not too big a change from either O’Donnell or Castle, and Delaware has the right to make that choice.

    I’m more concerned about the way the Tea Party Express has hijacked the Tea Party idea and turned it into something extremely corrosive and counterproductive. The Tea Party movement should be about honesty, and shouldn’t have anything to do with O’Donnell. The Tea Party Express understands that this is going to cost the movement in general some supporters, but it’s being used to elevate a new band of the same old kind of scummy politician.

    I don’t pay too much respec to last second political attacks. But that one against O’Donnell has plenty of evidence to support it. The writing’s been on the wall the entire time that she’s running for office to make money, not to win, which is why her primary campaign is so incompatible with winning the election. She’s used funds to pay her personal expenses while her staffers’ salaries are defaulted on.

    Her campaign manager is now saying she doesn’t actually care about conse4rvatism, but knows it is a great way to bring in the cash against a particularly hated RINO like Castle.

    The is exactly what I’ve been getting at for a while about the Tea Party vetting candidates. Joe Miller had a long history of honor. We could trust him. People who can’t demonstrate that might be honorable, but we shouldn’t give them our support because that opens the door to politicians cheating the movement.

    O’donnell was never in this to win, and covering up her defects has forced the Tea Party Express to go far too negative in reaction, which has caused fratricide.

    so we don’t take this seat. I can live with that, but it’s a shame because we would have been much more likely to take a Senate majority. A lot of people are rolling their eyes at the value of that, but let’s just hope we don’t have a conservative jurist die or resign. Breyer just said the 1st Amendment doesn’t protect religious protests if it could lead to Islamic terrorism. We need to take every advantage we can get right now, and we may have just let one advantage go.

    But that’s democracy and it wasn’t supposed to be perfect. I’m sure O’Donnell is finding this process very amusing.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  184. She says this now, where has she been the last two years, Castle has not tried to defend his votes for Disclose and other issues, why he chose not to debate, he thought no one would challenge him

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  185. She says this now, where has she been the last two years, Castle has not tried to defend his votes for Disclose and other issues, why he chose not to debate, he thought no one would challenge him

    Comment by ian cormac

    I suspect she didn’t come out for years because she was part of the problem and it’s pretty embarassing. However, the evidence corroborated her story. This O’Donnell’s strategy shows no intention of winning the general, despite the obvious problems of the last campaigns failing in the general. And she’s using campaign funds to support her lifestyle while refusing to pay her obligations to her staff… that’s a terrible long term calculation for any politician… except the kind described in the ad.

    I agree that last second attacks should be taken with a grain of salt, but my point is that we can find people like Joe Miller who we can trust for other RINO ousting attempts. These elections will be bad enough without forcing Tea Partiers to compromise their values.

    Just look at Ian’s reaction. It’s to go negative on Castle. It’s true, Castle didn’t debate and he stands by his worst votes. So? What’s that got to do with the issue I raised? Nothing.

    We should admit, O’Donnell and Castle are both totally unreliable for conservatives. But because the Tea Party has no good defense for O’Donnell, and there is very little defense for Castle, this race has become a very nasty set of attacks that has corroded the movement.

    It would be a better calculation next round to pick a Tea Party usurper who was obviously honorable. Ian’s right about Castle, but I think people like Ian deserve better candidates than O’Donnell.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  186. Dustin

    Cameron on Fox news just said something that I may have misheard – I thought he said before the TPX gave her money Cameron stated that Castle never had that big a lead over O’Donnell just a few points

    If this is true then its very interesting

    EPWJ the agast (17f94c)

  187. And he voted with the Democrats again, just to show how staunch he is

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  188. But because the Tea Party has no good defense for O’Donnell, and there is very little defense for Castle, this race has become a very nasty set of attacks that has corroded the movement.

    The MSM and political observers keeps referring to O’Donnell as a Tea Party-endorsed candidate, as if the Tea Party were some monolithic organization. But it’s not.

    The article I linked above to says O’Donnell has been endorsed by the Tea Party Express to back up its claim that she’s the Tea Party candidate. However, the TPE doesn’t speak for all Tea Party people.

    The National Tea Party Federation, which seeks to represent the Tea Party political movement around the country, has expelled the Tea Party Express because of an inflammatory blog post its leader, Mark Williams, wrote last week responding to criticism from the NAACP.

    Williams’ blog post satirized a fictional letter from what he called “Colored People” to President Abraham Lincoln.

    Even before this current controversy, the group was criticized by some within the Tea Party movement for being run by Republican consultants and for trying to influence GOP primaries far from its base in Sacramento, California.

    Tea Party people at the local level value their autonomy and don’t see the Tea Party Express (or any opportunistic GOP professional) as the face of the Tea Party movement.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R. (a18ddc)

  189. “Hey, does somebody have plans for this pot? I think the plant’s dead.”

    gary gulrud – Missed it again, gary. Hang in there dude, I know you’re trying.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  190. Dang Bradley, that is a very, very good point and I totally stand corrected. I shouldn’t pretend the Tea Party is the Tea Party Express. That organization has shown it’s not an honorable one, and it’s no surprise because this seems to be the trend among those who want to pretend to be the Tea Party’s leadership.

    We need to constantly keep up that point, because the crafty candidates of 2012 will attempt to pull the same con job O’Donnell has pulled. She’s not above reproach and her conservative credentials are terrible, but anyone who criticizes her is supposedly an enemy of the Tea Party? Nope. We are the Tea Party.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  191. Dustin,
    Thanks for the kind words. I wasn’t even aiming at you, but at the MSM reporters who continually confuse the Tea Party Express with the Tea Party movement.

    Such reporters have a hard time getting it through their heads that the Tea Party is indeed a ground-up movement, not some political Astroturf group like the Coffee Party (remember them?).

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R. (a18ddc)

  192. “Such reporters have a hard time getting it through their heads that the Tea Party is indeed a ground-up movement, not some political Astroturf group”

    Why can’t it be both?

    imdw (0275b8)

  193. Leftists like iamadimwit like to project their Astroturfing onto others.

    JD (fbd113)

  194. “Why can’t it be both?

    Comment by imdw”

    Why can’t water be dry?

    The Tea Party’s a grass roots movement. That’s just a fact. Redefining Astroturf (probably to mean anything conservative or gaining support from certain groups) doesn’t change the fact that millions of people really do keep going to these rallies across the country. At this point, you’d have to be a truther level nutcase, or a Bush stole his elections whacko, or a holocaust denier type, to think that’s all a show.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  195. not some political Astroturf group like the Coffee Party (remember them?)

    According to either CNN or MSNBC this morning (I was on my way to the Weather Channel while getting dressed, so I’m not sure which one it was, in as much as there is a difference)–
    The Coffee Party is having a convention (in Louisville, I think the reporter said)in the next few weeks, and one of the speakers will be one of the leaders of the Tea Party Express (specifically labelled TPE in the report).

    kishnevi (c89e0a)

  196. “Hang in there dude, I know you’re trying”

    I am? I commented that Mirengoff is a waste of my time. You disagreed, on the basis of what, I’ve no idea.

    Then you say I didn’t comprehend his argument. Well, I believe I can imagine his argument, but I don’t intend to read it.

    What might be your argument, chumbucket? You don’t seem to make them, just troll for flame wars.

    gary gulrud (790d43)

  197. That doesn’t make any sense, the Coffee Party is pure astroturf, they were part of OFA

    ian cormac (6709ab)

  198. the Coffee Party is pure astroturf

    Birds of a feather (meaning the Tea Party Express, not the movement in general) flock together?

    To be honest, I never did hear any actual agenda for the Coffee Party, and thought it was just a political stunt.

    kishnevi (c89e0a)

  199. “The Tea Party’s a grass roots movement. That’s just a fact.”

    And Freedomworks is doing their thing. Both things are going on, and they’re not mutually exclusive. Making the 9/12 rally happen required the grass roots to get there and the traditional washington based thinktanks to organize it.

    imdw (603c39)

  200. How many names have you posted under, imdw?

    JD (fbd113)

  201. gary gulrud – I apologize for mistaking you for a commenter who was trying to add value to this thread. In your latest comment you confess you are not. My bad.

    “I commented that Mirengoff is a waste of my time. You disagreed, on the basis of what, I’ve no idea.”
    On the basis of what? I gave you a big clue in my first comment. Years of reading Powerline, on a daily basis pretty much.

    “Then you say I didn’t comprehend his argument. Well, I believe I can imagine his argument, but I don’t intend to read it.” That is correct I said you didn’t understand his argument because you said “Whether Coons wins will be anticlimactic.” Anybody who had read Mirengoff’s piece who was not retarded would not made such a statement. Now, what do you know, you have confirmed you did not read Mirengoff’s piece.

    You are not trying after all gary. Why are you here, except to stir things up?

    Thanks for playing.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  202. I don’t know what’s going on — the argument is so complex that it’s hard to keep track. But what I do see clearly is that Levin is responding your arguments with repeated name-calling.

    That’s enough for me.

    John Farrier (b1d8df)


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