Patterico's Pontifications

11/30/2008

Why Islamic Terrorists Would Target a Jewish Center: An Ongoing Mystery to Our Journalistic Betters

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:30 pm

Over at The Jury Talks Back, aunursa says that CNN can’t figure out why the terrorists attacked a Jewish center.

It’s not terribly surprising that they’re surprised. I’ll never forget how, after a Muslim terrorist shot up a Jewish Center in Seattle, the L.A. Times ran a box on the front page saying that the gunman’s motive was a “mystery”:

Mystery.JPG

The story contained clues, such as the fact that the gunman targeted the Jewish Center after conducting a “cursory Internet search for Jewish organizations.” Or the witness who said the man had screamed “I am a Muslim American, angry at Israel!” before opening fire.

I swear I am not making up those facts, or the fact that the L.A. Times declared the gunman’s motives a “mystery” in the face of that evidence.

I guess these media types just keep getting mystified.

157 Responses to “Why Islamic Terrorists Would Target a Jewish Center: An Ongoing Mystery to Our Journalistic Betters”

  1. The real mystery is that the reporters who are this clueless haven’t gotten run over by a bus, or died because they forgot to breathe.

    Twits.

    C. S. P. Schofield (2f879a)

  2. Ok, I officially have no hope for this country.

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  3. It’s a weird form of racism—the idea that folks in other countries or cultures couldn’t possibly think differently than we do. Since most of us would not shoot up a Jewish (or Muslim) community center, the motives of anyone who would must be a mystery.

    Because if you were to say “...because Muslims have been taught to despise Jews by many Muslim educational institutions…” why, you would racist. Not multicultural. Old fashioned. Out of step.

    And not at all part of the cool future before us.

    Of course, the fact that Muslim extremists think that our actions are weak, and moderate Muslims stay silent, has nothing to do with it.

    Eric Blair (57b266)

  4. It’s sort of like calling the gunmen in Mumbai, pictured quite clearly in surveillance photos, the “suspected” gunmen, as Mark Steyn wrote about today. It’s a pathological fetishizing of “rights” that will be the death of us. I’m sure those at the Times are congratulating themselves about their fairness.

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  5. Well, actually it is kind of a mystery. What these particular Islamic terrorists were trying to prove or accomplish with the attack is still pretty obscure, though now that they have one of them in custody the motive may clear it up.

    There is no question that there are plenty of radicalized Islamic Pakistani terrorists, and no question that Pakistan and India have serious conflicts for which the Pakistani terrorists would be willing to violently kill and die for.

    But, the underlying tension to that regional brand of Islamic terrorism is not Islam vs. Judaism, it is Islamic vs. Hindi. India is like 80% Hindi, the rest mostly Islamic, some Christian and Buddhist, and a smattering of many other religions and a tiny obscure relative handful of Jews. Pakistan and India is a worrisome hotspot of tension, but the Jews have nothing to do with it.

    This attack was a horrifyingly well coordinated terrorist attack against Pakistan’s regional rival, certainly religiously and nationally motivated. (Not to suggest the government or people of Pakistan supported or weren’t opposed to or sickened by it.) It seems at this point hyper-partisan terrorist Islamic Pakistanis attacking largely Hindu India.

    So the mystery is, why go after a tiny outpost of Jews when launching this coordinated attack against India? Sure, Islamic terrorists hate Israel and Jews but they also hate Christians, Hindi, Buddhists, the US, Europe, and most other groups that aren’t like them. And all those targets of hatred have much more relevance to a Pakistani terrorist in terms of hated groups they would be willing to kill and die for than the tiny Jewish community in India.

    So yeah, it is a mystery in the sense of, if you are a Pakistani Islamic terrorist trying to convulse an Indian city in terror and bloodshed, why divert some of your terroristic anger and firepower to attack a tiny inconsequential Jewish outpost? It’s not like your Arab terrorist religious brethren aren’t keeping up their part of the war against the Jews, or that striking against the Jews in India will make any sort of difference in the larger Islam-Judaism conflict.

    Aplomb (b6fba6)

  6. I guess these media types just keep getting mystified.

    It does seem to be one possible result from the veritable end of rational thought – demanded and rewarded today especially by Progressivism.

    J."Trashman" Peden (cc596e)

  7. In modern big city newspapers, the editorial side isn’t really a news-gathering operation any more (see the Philadelphia Inquirer, The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times) but an activist left-wing political club. One of their memes is that Palestinians are victims, so somehow it’s impossible for fanatical adherents of The Religion of Peace to be at fault.

    The Los Angeles Times will close within 13 months.

    Official Internet Data Office (85f70b)

  8. In addition to the mystery of why the Religion of Peace members sought out and attacked jews and foreigners, I question the whole timing of the attacks. Obviously the attacks were delayed until after the U.S. elections to avoid improving the chances of hard line anti-terrorist John McCain. With dirty socialist terrorist sympathizing Barry O waiting to take the reins, this is obviously a test which, given his lack of a strong response, he passed with flying colors from the Islamofascist perspective.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  9. I guess these media types just keep getting mystified.

    It’s actually just as much a case of people in the media being ass backwards when it comes to who or what they sympathize with or give the benefit of the doubt to.

    For instance, and by contrast, look at all the hoopla surrounding the story below, in which various members of the media certainly weren’t as happy about scratching their head and asking, “I don’t understand it!! Are you sure the suspects are merely suspects??! Are you sure the accuser is full of it??!!”

    Heather MacDonald:

    David Lisak, a University of Massachusetts psychology professor who lectures constantly on the antirape college circuit, acknowledged to a hall of Rutgers students this November that the “Duke case,” in which a black stripper falsely accused three white Duke lacrosse players of rape in 2006, “has raised the issue of false allegations.” But Lisak didn’t want to talk about the Duke case, he said. “I don’t know what happened at Duke. No one knows.” Actually, we do know what happened at Duke: the prosecutor ignored clearly exculpatory evidence and alibis that cleared the defendants, and was later disbarred for his misconduct.

    Mark (411533)

  10. Let me guess, there is no author’s name attached to the story? There is no way the statement would be made on TV because it would cause blushing. To play really really dumb in the media, you need to be a newspaper editor with a concealed identity.

    This should get the full treatment on talk radio and blogs. Hopefully no one believes that the author is genuinely ignorant about this.

    jcurtis (524ed8)

  11. I’m torn as to whether the “journalists” writing stories like these are trying to delude their readers or themselves.

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)

  12. Andrew Boston over at the American Thinker goes into quite a detail about the Muslim hatred of Jews, especially from the Pakistan Muslims.

    Long article, lot of history, but well worth the read.

    rls (14b9d3)

  13. My guess is that they went there looking for kosher food which is very close to halal.

    nk (5fa892)

  14. I bet they would quickly be able to spot the reason a Christian would blow up an abortion clinic, even though that hasn’t even happened in like 15 years they would be very quick to label that one.

    Mr. Pink (a64369)

  15. Its because they are The Deciders. They get to assign motive/guilt/glory/etc. Who are we to question our betters?

    Techie (07c8ee)

  16. The NYT hates Jews, especially Israeli Jews. They can’t understand why it is exceptional for Islamists to target and kill Jews. AND, they won’t until the Islamists kill Jews at the NYT and within the Democrat congress.

    PCD (7fe637)

  17. Of course, the LAT knows so much in other cases that one wonders if they have magical powers, like ESP. How many “news” stories start out with “Even though Mr. Bush has the lowest approval ratings in history….”

    Patricia (ee5c9d)

  18. As always, the Joooos are somehow responsible for their own misfortunes – they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like at Buchenwald…and Auschwitz…will they never learn?

    Dmac (e30284)

  19. I wonder if the leftist news media are believing their own crap that “Palestinians” are really just freedom fighters. Which leaves them scratching their heads when this happens far outside of Israel.

    But they couldn’t be that stupid could they?

    In case it is not clear that is a rhetorical question.

    ML (14488c)

  20. But, the underlying tension to that regional brand of Islamic terrorism is not Islam vs. Judaism, it is Islamic vs. Hindi. India is like 80% Hindi, the rest mostly Islamic, some Christian and Buddhist, and a smattering of many other religions and a tiny obscure relative handful of Jews. Pakistan and India is a worrisome hotspot of tension, but the Jews have nothing to do with it.

    There is a job for you at the LA Times, Aplomb. This is exactly the cluelessness that we are discussing.

    My own theory about why ALL Muslims hate Jews is that Islam is a Jewish heresy. Think about it. The doctrines established by Mohammed are very close to Judaism. In fact, he was enraged when the Jews of Medina refused to adopt this new, improved religious doctrine he proposed. As someone above pointed out, kosher is close to the halal of Islam. There are other similarities but I think it is a factor in the early history of Islam. Now, of course, the education of Muslims is filled with Jew hatred.

    I even know Christian Arabs who are very anti-Jew but that, I think, has more to do with Israel. The anti-Semitism of Islam goes back to the beginning if you read the history of Mohammed.

    Mike K (6c3bc7)

  21. “…that regional brand of Islamic terrorism is not Islam vs. Judaism, it is Islamic vs. Hindi…”

    Never letting his ideological blinders getting in the way of the facts, but it is difficult to ignore this, just one of many reports that the gunmen targeted British and American tourists at the hotels.

    Also conveniently ignored, is that India is the 2nd, or 3rd, largest concentration of Muslims in the World, only exceeded in numbers by Indonesia, and perhaps Pakistan (census figures are problematic in that country).

    Is anti-Hindi terror a problem in India? Absolutely!
    But this wasn’t an anti-Hindi terror attack; or, why did they attack primarily Westerners (Brits & Yanks) at the hotels, and why the attack on the Jewish center?

    This was yet another terrorist attack on the center of the West: Judeo-Christian values as propounded by British, American, and Israeli Freedom.

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  22. Aplomb: i’m taking the fact that it specifically targeted Jews, a meaningless minority in India that just doesn’t factor into Indian internecine squabbles, to indicate that the attacks were not the result of an indigenous Indian group, or of a Pakistani group primarily interested in the India-Pakistan squabbles.

    Militants concerned about South Asian intra-ethnic dynamics wouldn’t care about Jews. Imported Arab militants would.

    Which suggests that the people who planned and carried out this attack were not locals … and that’s a very disturbing development.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  23. We sure are lucky we have these Masters-of-the-Universe journalists to interpret and explain events to us simple folks.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  24. “I don’t know what happened at Duke. No one knows.”

    Well, no one Lisak knows knows – quite clearly because those of this Cult are simply incapable of knowing anything.

    J."Trashman" Peden (6071b2)

  25. Confronted with a real, bona fide hate crime, liberals scratch their heads.

    The victims and perpetrators are not arranged according to the accepted narrative! Better move on to the next story.

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  26. I guess I probably shouldn’t give their Progressive Masters any ideas, but I wonder if those hominids of the “clueless mystified” sub-species still have the wherewithall to apply for protection under the Endangered Species Act, so that if they don’t succeed in taking over, they still just might not go extinct.

    J."Trashman" Peden (6071b2)

  27. I guess these media types just keep getting mystified.

    I guess Republican pundits like Denis Miller for example who claim that Bush is doing a good job because we haven’t been attacked since 9/11 are just as ……..mystified.

    Oiram (983921)

  28. Comment by Oiram — 12/1/2008 @ 9:47 am

    It is obvious that he is doing a good job re the defense of the country, since the country has not been attacked, unlike the thousands of terrorist attacks throughout the world (not counting what goes on in Iraq or Afghanistan) that have occurred since 11 Sep 01.
    Or, is that too nuanced for you?

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  29. Caution all shoppers: Non sequitur spillage on aisle #27 by Oiram.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  30. Hey, if it wasn’t for non sequiturs, he wouldn’t have any sequiturs at all.

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  31. 27, mariO, are you still having cognitive disconnects or are you an idiot?

    PCD (7fe637)

  32. You see Another Drew, when the original post here accuses the media of being mystified, which I agree is silly, I have to wonder whether or not we’ve been attacked or not.

    I remembered that Seattle shooting as not getting enough media coverage. It passed under the radar, just as Bush supporters were slapping themselves on the back claiming war in Iraq had stopped attacks here.

    Did Muslim terrorists attack a Seattle, Washington Jewish center or not? “Jewish center” in the state of Washington…… sounds like America to me, as I’m sure it does to you.

    I think the “Nuanced” ones are the Republican talking mouths claiming success in Iraq by way of us “not having been attacked since 9/11″.

    At least based on this fine post.

    Oiram (983921)

  33. Fine, go on believing we haven’t been attacked………….. unless it suits you to criticize the media.

    Oiram (983921)

  34. Did Muslim terrorists attack a Seattle, Washington Jewish center or not?

    Not according to this story:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14082298/

    There was only one. So, no, “Muslim terrorists” did not attack a Seattle Jewish center. We can argue over whether the attacker was a terrorist; he certainly was in the same sense that a random gang member would be one. But his aim wasn’t to instill terror into the populace.

    Steverino (69d941)

  35. […] it is with some amazement that I noted that people like non-journalist Patrick Frey and one of his “jurors,” aunursa, were able to figure out the answer to something very […]

    Common Sense Political Thought » Archives » Too obvious for the professional journalists (73d96f)

  36. 27, mariO, are you still having cognitive disconnects or are you an idiot?

    I think his handle has to do with Oiram Utah and not his name.

    voiceofreason2 (10af7e)

  37. The perfect is the enemy of the good, Oiram, and obviously, also the enemy to rational thought. About all you got left above the reptilian is fantasitcal flights from reality and arguments about word definitions.

    -no charge.

    J."Trashman" Peden (6071b2)

  38. #30 “Hey, if it wasn’t for non sequiturs, he wouldn’t have any sequiturs at all.”

    more likely, he’s a premature sequitur…..

    /white smoke

    redc1c4 (27fd3e)

  39. Mr Pink came up with the obvious:

    I bet they would quickly be able to spot the reason a Christian would blow up an abortion clinic, even though that hasn’t even happened in like 15 years they would be very quick to label that one.

    You think? We mingth even find the word “Christianist” in there somewhere, surely with the phrase “domestic terrorist” attached.

    What’s interesting is that The New York Times, owned by a Jewish family, run by a heavily Jewish editorial staff, in a city with a large Jewish population, still can’t understand that some Islamic terrorists choose Jewish targets simply because they are Jewish!

    The not very amused Dana (3e4784)

  40. PCD wrote:

    The NYT hates Jews, especially Israeli Jews. They can’t understand why it is exceptional for Islamists to target and kill Jews. AND, they won’t until the Islamists kill Jews at the NYT and within the Democrat congress.

    Well, if the Islamists are too efficient at that, it’ll be rather late for them to come to that understanding, won’t it?

    It’s too easy for us goyim to wax philosophical on some supposed forms of Jewish self-guilt or self-loathing, and it’s something I’d normally avoid, but PCD’s statement is dead on target, yet The New York Times is primarily owned by a Jewish family, the chairman and publisher is Jewish, many of the executives and editors are Jewish, and they live and work in a city with a substantial Jewish population. How is it that a goy like me can see it, and they can’t?

    The just plain pissed off Dana (3e4784)

  41. Comment by Oiram — 12/1/2008 @ 10:04 am

    The guy who shot up the Jewish center in Seattle ranks right alongside the guy who did the same in the San Fernando Valley:
    Anti-Semite Bigots.

    Now, if you have proof that either of these attacks were the result of some conspiracy, you should contact the Dept. of Homeland Security and/or the FBI, I’m sure they would be interested.

    Until then, I am comfortable in believing that the actions of this administration has kept the nation safe from foreign attack such as we experienced on 11 Sep 01. An attack that was devised by plotters in Hamburg, and other foreign cities, was it not? With the express approval at the highest levels of the AQ organization.

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  42. what no one has mentioned so far is the irony in using the term “zealot” in the headline, given the origin of the word.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealotry

    redc1c4 (27fd3e)

  43. Comment by redc1c4 — 12/1/2008 @ 10:51 am

    At the Looking Glass Times, words only have the meaning intended by the writer, at the time that he wrote them.

    If you’re looking for some kind of consistency, you’re definitely looking at the wrong newsroom.

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  44. Maybe they were being sarcastic.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  45. 40, Dana, do lemmings realize that they are doing something terminally stupid after they go off the cliff? I’m likening Liberal, Reformed Jewish Democrats to lemings.

    PCD (7fe637)

  46. #41, no problem Another Drew, I’m with you.

    Except that leads me to think that there is good cause for the media to be somewhat “mystified” (original post).

    Can’t have it both ways my friend.

    Oiram (983921)

  47. I guess Republican pundits like Denis Miller for example who claim that Bush is doing a good job because we haven’t been attacked since 9/11 are just as ……..mystified.

    Stop hijacking the thread.

    Dmac (e30284)

  48. Comment by Oiram — 12/1/2008 @ 11:37 am

    They’re only “mystified” because of their PC-induced stupidity.

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  49. Comment by Oiram — 12/1/2008 @ 11:37 am

    BTW, cut the “my friend” crap, for I am not.

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  50. #48 Ahhhh…. “PC stupidity” as opposed to Bush “redundancy”.

    Got it.

    Oiram (983921)

  51. Stop hijacking the thread.

    Dmac (e30284)

  52. Comment by Oiram — 12/1/2008 @ 12:04 pm

    Yes, I thought you could identify with that since you suffer so greatly from it.

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  53. PCD asked:

    Dana, do lemmings realize that they are doing something terminally stupid after they go off the cliff? I’m likening Liberal, Reformed Jewish Democrats to lemings.

    Jews are probably the most successful and best educated ethnic group in our country. Despite a long history of having to swim upstream against anti-Semitism, they have succeeded The American Way, by encouring their children to study hard in school, to win admission to the best colleges, study hard there, to get good grades and the best entry they could into the professional world, and work hard there to support their families and teir communities. If every other group in the US studied and worked as hard as American Jews, our economy would be eternally strong, our welfare rolls would be restricted to the seriously handicapped, and our drop-out and crime rates would approach zero.

    These people are simply too smart to be lemmings! Yet, you are absolutely right: they vote against their own interests, against the interests of their fellow Jews, and really are swimming like lemmings; I sure can’t figure it out.

    The puzzled Dana (3e4784)

  54. Comment by The puzzled Dana — 12/1/2008 @ 12:56 pm

    Another Forrest Gump’s Momma’s moment.

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  55. I guess we are not as smart as we think we are.

    Da'Shiznit (089453)

  56. I can not find it but a year or so ago Jihad Watch had an article about a journalist handbook on the correct terms to use and the ones to stay away from.
    It was very enlightening, pure liberal moral equivalence run amuck.
    Ironically they think their audience is dumb enough to not know the difference.

    Its like how the press reports political sex scandals, when reading the story if it involves an ( R ) you will know by the headline or at the very least in the first few sentences, if it involves a ( D ) you wont know until the very end or at all.

    ML (14488c)

  57. #52 Right again Another Drew, I do suffer from Bush’s Redundancy’s :(

    We all do.

    Sorry to hijack a hijacked post Dmac.

    Oiram (983921)

  58. Perhaps if “the most successful and best educated ethnic group in our country” consistently votes against your political party, you might want to rethink your politics instead of resorting to childish name calling.

    parsnip (1e884c)

  59. When that minority happily votes for the people who gleefully accept the man who coined “himey-town” as one of their own, I feel safe in assuming they ain’t all that smart.

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  60. parsnip please get lost you insufferable turd.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  61. #58 Your using too much logic parsnip, you might get accused of hijacking the thread here.

    Oiram (983921)

  62. Yeah you guys are real Bertrand Russells there.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  63. #58 Your using too much logic parsnip

    And you’re using too little of The Little, Brown Handbook

    Steverino (69d941)

  64. “if “the most successful and best educated ethnic group in our country” consistently votes against your political party”

    Do orientals block vote Democratic?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  65. you might get accused of hijacking the thread here.

    You might also be accused of being an unreconstructed douchebag, but that wouldn’t be fair to actual bags of douche.

    Dmac (e30284)

  66. That’s an old Dennis Miller joke, btw – and that’s what happens when you consistently threadjack.

    Dmac (e30284)

  67. Believe it or not Dmac, I still like Dennis Miller. I was a fan back in his SNL days and even though I disagree with him, I still like to tune into his show whenever I’m driving past 6pm.

    I’m sure he would call me a D bag as well.

    He was an old Clintonite back in the 90’s, I’m sure he could change back again on a dime.

    Oiram (983921)

  68. By the way, anyone who thinks parsnip is using any amount of logic is laughably ignorant.

    Steverino (69d941)

  69. It is like it is physically impossible for Mario and sniffles/alphie/parsnip to actually address the topic at hand.

    JD (5f0e11)

  70. Hurling juvenile insults is always on topic!

    Right, JD!

    parsnip (1e884c)

  71. Perhaps if “the most successful and best educated ethnic group in our country” consistently votes against your political party, you might want to rethink your politics instead of resorting to childish name calling.

    I think he said that they “voted against their own interests”.

    rls (14b9d3)

  72. Maybe American Jews who vote Democratic aren’t united by their religion or heritage as much as by other things.

    DRJ (a50047)

  73. Parsnip wrote:

    Perhaps if “the most successful and best educated ethnic group in our country” consistently votes against your political party, you might want to rethink your politics instead of resorting to childish name calling.

    Hmmm: Somehow, I never thought that describing a group as “the most successful and best educated ethnic group in our country” amounted to “childish name calling.” Apparently, I get an F in parsnippity logic. ‘Tis a cross I shall have to bear.

    It’s clear that, for Jews, voting Democratic — which they do: Jewish voters are the third most loyal Democratic demographic, behind blacks and deceased voters — is against their own interests. Given that Jews, on average, have higher incomes, they are voting for higher taxes on themselves. Given that Jews are more heavily engaged in the financial industry than the population, they are voting for more regulations on themselves. Given that Affirmative Action will impact Jews harder, negatively, than anyone else, it is clear that they are voting against their own interests.

    The wondering Dana (556f76)

  74. Perhaps they think there’s more to life than dodging paying taxes, Dana?

    parsnip (1e884c)

  75. Maybe American Jews who vote Democratic aren’t united by their religion or heritage as much as by other things.

    I can only go by my friends of many years, but I think you’re on to something. They always vote straight ticket Dem, regardless of the candidate’s stances on Israel, Palestine or anything else you’d think would cause them some concern. It’s either willful ignorance or force of habit, take your pick.

    Dmac (e30284)

  76. I’m so sick of all this stupidity.

    Karen (dda662)

  77. Comment by The wondering Dana — 12/1/2008 @ 5:16 pm

    It does seem puzzling for all the reasons you state. Based on those, it would seem a given that they would vote conservative. However, as Dennis Prager ntoes there is an inherited element within Jews that may override all else being deeper and less tangible,

    That something is fear in the case of Jews and anger in the case of blacks. And both the Jews’ fears and the blacks’ anger are a result of their respective collective memories.

    The Jewish memory in question is of Christian anti-Semitism and the Nazi Holocaust. Even Jews who know little about either Jewish or Christian history know by high-school age that for nearly 2,000 years, Jewish communities suffered from anti-Semitic persecution at the hands of Christians, that Christians massacred Jews during the Crusades, that there was a Spanish Inquisition, and that the Holocaust came from Nazism, a far-right doctrine.

    Because of this deeply ingrained memory associating Jewish suffering with Christianity and the far right, most Jews have a primal fear of Christianity (and even of religion generally, including Judaism) and of conservatives. Jews therefore vote for the party that opposes the party associated with anything even remotely connected with public religion or the right.

    This becomes generational and the memory while true and unchanging, does not accurately reflect the current state of affairs. But it doesn’t seem to matter. They are embedded. Forever. Perhaps too there is an overall fear of breaking free from history being completely in control of what is happening now because something intrinsic to the Jewish experience might be lost.

    My own Jewish grandmother and family who fled eastern Europe to NY, were stridently left and would, never, ever consider supporting anyone conservative. And yet when asked why, they could never explain why that was.

    Dana (79a78b)

  78. Not to mention the Republicans built detention camps and claimed the right to throw any “undesirables” they wanted to into them without a trial, Dana.

    Ever heard the phrase, “Never Again?”

    Look it up, it might help you understand.

    parsnip (1e884c)

  79. FDR built the Japanese internment camps – does that count?

    Dmac (e30284)

  80. Wilson passed the Alien and Sedition act, and imprisoned immigrants, journalists and labor leaders who dared to speak out against his policies during WWI – does that count?

    Dmac (e30284)

  81. Your intellectual fallowness is as naked as a jaybird.

    Dmac (e30284)

  82. “claimed the right to throw any “undesirables” they wanted to”
    You have a source for this claim?

    “Ever heard the phrase, “Never Again?”
    Ever heard the phrase “it takes an insufferable asshole to invoke the Holocaust to score partisan points?” You just prove every time you type your tripe that you’re an even slimier little tool than everyone already thinks you are.

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  83. The Root Vegetable is being intentionally obtuse. Or is shockingly ignorant of history. Or both. Which is why I suspect he or she is a twenty something with a lot of time on her or his hands and a enormous sense of entitlement. And a need to feel powerful by arguing with people, instead of civil discussion or debate (argument and debate are very different).

    The goal is to stir people up by using offensive and ignorant statements (such as telling Dana “...Look it up, it might help you understand….” when Dana’s own relatives fled the freaking Holocaust), and get people angry enough to slap back.

    This, again, is the Goal of the Troll™.

    Oh, and if previous trolls are any indictor, we will shortly be told that the troll has many relatives who were in the Holocaust. Sigh.

    Any progress on determining if this is a New Troll or an Old Troll Remade?

    You see what I mean about the teaching of history, Dmac? Because I can promise you that this particular troll has no idea about the Wilson Administration’s use of the Alien and Sedition Act. Go look up any history department at almost any college. It is shameful.

    But then, the Powers that Be like the electorate to be ignorant. It allows the same mistakes to be made over and over again.

    Eric Blair (8f93a0)

  84. “Ever heard the phrase, “Never Again?”

    Why of course I have, parsnip. You do not grow up in a family where a branch of members were Jews forced to leave their homeland without knowing this. And I don’t know how old you are but didn’t we all learn that during our high school World History classes while simultaneously being mesmerized and horrified at the few camp photos once allowed in textbooks?

    Perhaps it would help you to more fully understand what I was attempting to explain by reading for yourself Praeger’s interesting look at the subject.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30592

    Dana (79a78b)

  85. A significant plurality of American Jews are from the New York metropolitan area, and almost all of the rest from cities in the Northeast, or from L.A. Those areas are Democratic. That’s why Jews vote Democratic. And so does almost everyone else in those areas.

    Official Internet Data Office (85f70b)

  86. One day the Radical Right will come out of denial and relize just how far they went.

    Life is too short to read someone like Praeger, Dana.

    parsnip (1e884c)

  87. Comment by Eric Blair — 12/1/2008 @ 6:31 pm
    ….fled the freaking Holocaust), and get people angry enough to slap back.

    Grama Stella’s family fled the pogroms, EB. We are not sure if everyone made it because we hit a dead end in researching it. If any family was left behind, they would have certainly perished. Eastern Europe basically disintegrated and unless one was aristocracy or something more than simple peasant stock or was fortunate enough to be hidden, they were assumed lost and the thread became impossible to trace any further.

    Dana (79a78b)

  88. Life is too short to read someone like Praeger, Dana.

    Comment by parsnip — 12/1/2008 @ 6:38 pm

    I assume a position of student, parsnip. I like the humility and freedom that comes with being willing to learn from others. Its far more satisfying than assuming an I-already-know-it-all attitude. Don’t you think so?

    Dana (79a78b)

  89. Comment by parsnip — 12/1/2008 @ 6:38 pm

    Yes, don’t want to complicate your single-cell existence by the absorption of facts.

    BTW, and this includes dana too, it is spelled P-R-A-G-E-R.

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  90. I believe this topic started when you labeled the 80% of Jewish Americans who always vote Democratic “lemmings” Dana.

    Free your mind.

    parsnip (1e884c)

  91. Free your mind
    Comment by parsnip — 12/1/2008 @ 6:54 pm

    Sound advice, Dana.
    The easiest way to accomplish this is to completely ignore the rantings of snippy, and his alter egos.

    Another Drew (ff78fa)

  92. I believe this topic started when you labeled the 80% of Jewish Americans who always vote Democratic “lemmings” Dana.

    And I believe you have me mixed up with the other Dana who comments here. I am the adjectiveless Dana, the other is the adjective-laden Dana.

    Dana (79a78b)

  93. I don’t like parsnip. Like broccoli, it should be plowed under wherever it grows.

    PCD (7fe637)

  94. I believe this topic started when you labeled the 80% of Jewish Americans who always vote Democratic “lemmings” Dana.

    Free your mind.

    Actually, it was PCD who used the term “lemmings”.

    Reading comprehension isn’t very high on your “To Do” list, is it?

    Steverino (db5760)

  95. PCD wrote:

    I don’t like parsnip. Like broccoli, it should be plowed under wherever it grows.

    Broccoli is good.

    Especially Albert Broccoli, the producer of most of the James Bond flicks.

    The adjective-laden Dana (556f76)

  96. Actually, I have twice dated women named Dana, though not the adjectiveless Dana who comments here. Iasked one out, almost entirely due to her name, and the other asked me out.

    I think she was desperate.

    The adjective-laden Dana (556f76)

  97. Not to mention the Republicans built detention camps and claimed the right to throw any “undesirables” they wanted to into them without a trial, Dana.

    FDR was a Republican? Who knew?

    Rob Crawford (b5d1c2)

  98. Whelp, that’s the last we’ll hear of Parsnip in THIS thread…

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  99. parsnip, #78, you really are doing nothing but showing your own utter ignorance. You misrepresent the administration’s actions and ignore that Democratic Presidents Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt were orders of magnitude more oppressive, in putting people into concentration camps and jailing dissenters.

    Twit.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  100. I can’t prove that parsnip is alphie/snuffles, but the IP address comes back to the same rather small town in the Pacific Northwest. Good enough to ban? I put it to a vote.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  101. snippy and his alter egos

    There’s a great nickname in there, AD. Since parsnip is uppity, and is a partisan hack…

    I declare parsnip christened by dubbing:

    From this day forward: Parsnippity Hack of the Gromia sphaerica.

    Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (3a5751)

  102. If every other group in the US studied and worked as hard as American Jews, our economy would be eternally strong, our welfare rolls would be restricted to the seriously handicapped, and our drop-out and crime rates would approach zero.

    I think of politics, and party affiliation, the same way I think of parents and their children.

    If kids in a family tend to be innately resourceful, talented, disciplined and self-reliant, the parents have some leeway before they start affecting their sons and daughters, for either good or bad. But if the kids tend to be bratty, undisciplined and non-resourceful, then the parents can easily and quickly make a bad situation much worse. Moreover, whatever they do, they’ll have less influence in steering their children towards a life without self-destructive tendencies.

    So if a society is going to be very liberal, the potential of it being seriously screwed up is lessened if at least most of its people are like the family with the good kids. But if far too many folks in a country are like the family with the holy terrors for offspring, then the phrase that comes to mind is “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

    Mark (411533)

  103. I think parsnip is alphie/snuffles and he’s already been banned, so I vote to enforce the ban.

    DRJ (a50047)

  104. I certinly won’t shed any tears…

    Scott Jacobs (90ff96)

  105. The style is a close enough match for alphie/snuffles/parsnip to be the same person. None are really value added commenters.

    I vote thumbs down.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  106. I don’t mind Devil’s Advocates. But this parsnip person is getting increasingly rude…and for no good reason. In particular, Dana has never written anything remotely insulting, and the childish posts directed toward her are tiresome. Not that Dana needs me to defend her; she is more than equal to the task.

    At the same time, I know for a fact that Patterico is 100% reliable and takes internet privacy VERY seriously. If parsnip is NOT alphie or snuffles, he or she should write to Patterico off-blog and make his or her case.

    But parsnip is getting pretty irritating.

    Eric Blair (8f93a0)

  107. Patterico – Your comments also appear to be slow again tonight. They may appear on the home page but not on the thread page.

    Clicking on the recent comments side bar on the home page takes you to the main page for the post as opposed to the comment that was clicked on, since it doesn’t appear on the thread yet, only on the home page side bar.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  108. Whoops, my post evaporated!

    Eric Blair (8f93a0)

  109. It’s not proven, but were I moderating, I’d say that it was good enough, absent some attempt to profer evidence that it’s not the same address.

    But I was involved in a website which got destroyed by trolls, so i’m trigger happy on this score.

    aphrael (9e8ccd)

  110. The absence of denials is telling.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  111. Perhaps ban him so he has a chance to work out those identity issues he struggles with… :)

    Dana (79a78b)

  112. And Abraham drew near and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?… That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes…

    And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.

    That work for you, daley?

    parsnip (1e884c)

  113. Bigotry against a group thatvoted for the same candidate? That’s so un-liberal.

    Icy Truth (b7d162)

  114. “That work for you, daley?”

    No

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  115. Good enough to ban?

    Sure. It’ll annoy the lil’ feller, at least.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  116. #113 Comment by parsnip — 12/1/2008 @ 10:24 pm

    Drama queen.

    If there was any doubt over this, you have removed it with that comment, Parsnippity Hack of the Gromia sphaerica.

    I’m with DRJ. Thumbs down.

    And Patterico, thanks for looking into this.

    Paul (creator of "Staunch Brayer") (3a5751)

  117. Looks like it’s time to change your name again!

    Mossberg500 (9fd170)

  118. How could you ban someone who so self-deprecatingly names themself “parsnip” – an ugly and even sometimes poisonous leafy root? It might even be a cry for help.

    J."Trashman" Peden (80a183)

  119. Patterico: You are much more tolerant of trolls than I~I would have pulled the plug on it long ago just for general worthlessness.

    But the appallingly clueless and disgusting allusion to the Holocaust was really over the top.

    Were I in your position, I’d ban the whole town.

    EW1(SG) (a53322)

  120. Wow, it really is a mystery. Right now I’m watching the live video stream of the Holtzbergs’ funeral in Israel, and wondering why on earth Moslems would seek out Jews in India to kill. Had the attackers been members of the American Patriot movement, or maybe the Texan Republican Party, the explanation would have been obvious, but Moslems? That really is a head-scratcher for the ages.

    Milhouse (89df7f)

  121. I vote not to ban him. Then again, I always vote against bans, unless someone is simply spamming or using extremely foul langauge.

    The Free Speech Dana (3e4784)

  122. The adjectiveless Dana wrote:

    Perhaps ban him so he has a chance to work out those identity issues he struggles with…

    I worry that such reasoning could be used against me! :)

    The adjective-laden Dana (3e4784)

  123. Banned? No, parsnip should be diced and boiled. And drenched in gravy. And fed to the dog.

    Pablo (99243e)

  124. 124, Pablo, why do you hate dogs?

    I vote for the ban.

    PCD (7fe637)

  125. Funeral over. Time for more comments.

    In #39 and #40, the adjectival Dana wrote that “The New York Times is primarily owned by a Jewish family, the chairman and publisher is Jewish, many of the executives and editors are Jewish“. The Sulzbergers are not Jewish, and haven’t been for quite some time. Pinch’s paternal grandfather was born Jewish, but he is Episcopalian, like his mother. I’m not sure how the link provided shows that many executives and editors are Jewish, either. A number have German names, which is often a sign that someone is Jewish, or at least has Jewish ancestors or a Jewish husband, but sometimes Germans also have German names… Granted, a name like that in New York is more likely to mean a Jew than is the same name in Pittsburgh.

    As for what makes Jews vote Democrat, the first thing to remember is that it’s overwhelmingly secular Jews who vote that way. The more religious a Jew is, the more likely s/he is to vote Republican. The phenomenon of secular Jews is interesting. Back in Eastern Europe, at the beginning of the 20th century, socialism and communism ran rampant in the Jewish community. It was seen as “modern” and “progressive”, and something that would “liberate” Jews from both God and Czar. My grandfather told me that when the revolution came, all of his friends bared their heads and became communists, and he was the only young boy in his village left in the study hall.

    To these Jews who had rejected religion, what was left of their Jewish identity? What was left to keep them Jewish? The answer is that many of them didn’t actually reject religion at all, they just substituted socialism for Judaism, Das Kapital for the Talmud, and Khaver Lenin and Khaver Stalin for the Messiah. Those who came to America did the same with FDR; he was their messiah, and the New Deal their Third Temple. Later, socialist Israel took its place in their hearts; had Israel’s early leaders not been socialist, this might not have happened, and indeed when the first non-socialist government was elected in 1977 many secular American Jews didn’t know how to deal with it.

    That, in my opinion, is the origin of the Jewish addiction to the Democratic Party.

    Milhouse (89df7f)

  126. Get rid of snippy. He is a useless POS.
    He can go over to Riehl and join jharp who is at it over there being the same sanctimonious pompous douche he was here.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  127. None are really value added commenters.

    Agreed – and you can add Truth /n Idiot into that mix as well.

    Dmac (e30284)

  128. Mike K: the problem with your theory is that all Muslims don’t hate Jews, unless you define judenhass as an essential part of being a Muslim, which begs the question. Some (at least many) Muslims don’t; you could ask Sheikh Palazzi why.

    Getting back to Patterico’s original point, the only explanation that makes any sense at all is pretended ignorance. Why well-educated, intelligence, MSM reporters tend to go all Sergeant Schultz on this stuff is left as an exercise for the reader.

    Joel Rosenberg (5ec843)

  129. Parsnippity Hack of the Gromia sphaerica.

    I like that; though, I have to give a H/T to Clayton Cramer for the post on gromia.

    Snippy does not seem to have any redeeming values;
    I signal thumb-down.

    Another Drew (4472ac)

  130. Parsnippity Hack of the Gromia sphaerica.

    Neat! H/T to Clayton Cramer for the post on gromia on his blog.

    I signal thumb-down on snippy retention.

    Another Drew (4472ac)

  131. Don’t ban Rutabaga!

    Seriously now. Levi and his brand of worthless ilk aside, people that are just flat-out liberal tools are what makes this site fun to come to.

    [Please don’t ban me for ending my sentence w/ a preposition!]

    Icy Texan (formerly Icy Truth) (b7d162)

  132. AD – So far he’s not like the troll over at Protein Wisdom who is working with at least six different IP addys. Which is nice.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  133. Wow. I just read the comments over at riehlworldview for the first time in a long time… The quality of this site does not suffer in jharp’s absence. I forgot how bad that was.

    carlitos (52fcd8)

  134. Yeah jharp just shifts his game to another site and does the same act – throwing around his self-absorbed, pissy attitude like he’s “better” than everyone. Really sad insecure jerk he is.

    Hey Icy, what part of Texas did you move to?

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  135. I think the “Nuanced” ones are the Republican talking mouths claiming success in Iraq by way of us “not having been attacked since 9/11″.

    At least based on this fine post.

    Comment by Oiram

    The election is over and your guy won. Why isn’t that enough to shut down the extreme partisan rhetoric ? There have been LOTS of attempts over the past seven years, most of which you haven’t heard of. The fact that they failed is what we are talking about. Yes, there have been incidents of single fanatics like the UNC driver who ran over some kids on campus. None showed the organization and skill of a serious terrorist threat although some of the failures have.

    For example, some of us know that Islamists are recruiting in prison and there are a number of ex-con groups around that are looking from support and opportunity. I expect that if your candidate follows through with his campaign promises, you can expect a major attack in the next year or two. If he doesn’t, maybe not. Nobody knows how much of his campaign was based on lies or vague generalities that nobody understands and how much on leftist/pacifist ideology. The more he lied, the safer we will be.

    Mike K (6c3bc7)

  136. My apologies for the double post above, but the comment monster ate the post, and I re-did it, and that one got eaten also.
    Thanks to whomever for reaching into the jaws of the monster to retreive this mess.

    Another Drew (4472ac)

  137. The comment monster has a delay to help deal with load; Patterico explained this in a comment on some other thread.

    So things which you have posted as comments may … wait … to show up.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  138. I fixed the cache so the comments will show up sooner but Patrick may have to turn it back on at times to keep the site from crashing due to high traffic.

    Thanks for your patience.

    DRJ (a50047)

  139. Dear Jack #134:

    Yeah jharp just shifts his game to another site and does the same act – throwing around his self-absorbed, pissy attitude like he’s “better” than everyone. Really sad insecure jerk he is.

    As I recall, isn’t that guy just a kid with a lot of time on his hands, and clearly upset that he isn’t King of the World?

    Or was that someone different? Who was the Master of Industry in Indiana who owned many houses, ran import-export business with China, had multiple children he raised to be polite (unlike their father), and golfed all the time?

    I remember when Patterico found an old post of jharp’s (I think) when he was sixteen…but that was no more than six years old. I remember how affronted jharp was about that, and how it made a difference that the post was six years old (unlike his usual style of debate).

    So he is just a kid.

    Of course 22 or 23 year olds can contribute useful information to any political debate. But that isn’t the jharp we all came to know. He doesn’t add value, he subtracts.

    For me, he will always be Jharp of the Slurpee Machine.

    Eric Blair (8f93a0)

  140. DRJ: I was fairly annoyed yesterday, but I felt much better once I found Patterico’s comment explaining it. I’m a technical guy; once I have an explanation for irritating software behavior, then my annoyance goes away. :)

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  141. Hmmm. I must be confused. The troll jharp claims to have worked for 25 years in the import-export business.

    So who the heck was the troll who turned out to be in his early twenties?

    Eric Blair (8f93a0)

  142. aphrael,

    Me, too. I didn’t know what was happening or how to fix it until today, but hopefully I will be available to help make any needed adjustments from now on.

    DRJ (a50047)

  143. EB – you’re thinking of Levi perhaps. He was truly amazing. I’ve never “met” someone I’ve wanted to punch in the face more than him.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  144. I’ll bet you are right, JK. That sounds familiar to my flu-rattled brain.

    I guess it is all silly. Fact is, there are all kinds of different posters here, from across the political spectrum. Some are very polite, and others a bit profane. But for the most part, they have something worthwhile to contribute.

    Trolls, not so much.

    Eric Blair (8f93a0)

  145. I’m sorry you are sick, Eric Blair. Our son was sick over the holiday and it’s no fun.

    DRJ (a50047)

  146. DRJ, thanks as always for your polite manner; I always enjoy your posts. As for me, it’s ironic: I am teaching about pathogenesis right now!

    I got whatever this is (I’m saying it is the flu; it is clearly viral) from my beloved incubators: my two young children! I would MUCH rather that I be sick than them (grammar?). I hope your boy is feeling better.

    Getting back to the actual thread of this discussion, I am still amazed how reticent some people are to admit the anti-semitic motives (yes, yes, I know that Arabs are semites, as well, but you know what I mean) of Islamic extremists.

    Those same people would not pause to accuse any given group in this country of racism, am I right? Or accuse folks in the South of being anti-semites, to be more direct.

    I think it is a weird transmogrified form of racism: we don’t hold other cultures to the same standards we insist upon for ourselves.

    Eric Blair (8f93a0)

  147. Oh…or we insist that people from other cultures are never responsible for their own actions, but instead it is all due to Western malfeasances.

    So it is like a Kipling style racism, in a way. It’s all about us!

    Heck, I watched one newscaster announcing that the Mumbai attacks were not a surprise, because of the close associations of India to the US. Huh? At what point are the freaking terrorists responsible for what they do?

    Oh well.

    Eric Blair (8f93a0)

  148. Blame the West First! has become so ingrained into the mainstream that it has pretty much become the default way of “thinking” about global issues. It seemed like it was once confined to a limited, trendy and fashionable corner of academe but like an underground band that signs with a major label, it found mainstream success and is now the arena rock of analysis.

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  149. Thank you pseudo-intellectual, upper-class late 60’s era hacks!

    Jack Klompus (cf3660)

  150. “…CNN can’t figure out why the terrorists attacked a Jewish center.”

    The Nazis killed Jews because they hated Jews. Muslim terrorists kill Jews because they hate Jews.

    Get a freaking clue.

    Dave Surls (079aa2)

  151. DRJ wrote:

    I fixed the cache so the comments will show up sooner but Patrick may have to turn it back on at times to keep the site from crashing due to high traffic.

    Some problems are nice to have . . . . :(

    My site’s so slow even parsnip never visits.

    The wistful Dana (556f76)

  152. #147 Eric Blair:

    yes, I know that Arabs are semites

    IIRC, the genesis of “anti-Semite” was to make Judenhass sound less icky.

    #149 Jack Klompus:

    Blame the West First! has become so ingrained into the mainstream that it has pretty much become the default way of “thinking” about global issues.

    It simply astounds me that people don’t remember the origin of this meme, which (along with a host of others, including the assumption only Western whites can be racist) were either originated or most fully developed and propagated by the Soviet Union’s misinformation & propaganda war against the West in their failed imperialistic bid for world conquest. And it wasn’t that long ago! Just because they supposedly “lost” the Cold War, the concepts and ideas that they employed didn’t just disappear~as Daniel Moynihan remarked about defining deviancy down, the Soviet information warfare plan of shifting the “center” of the discussion has been successful.

    Ironically, they have won the information war~even though there is no longer anyone for us to surrender to.

    EW1(SG) (836d47)

  153. Hmm, meme multiplication in parenthesis. Is that a transitive or associative property?

    Poor grammar either way.

    EW1(SG) (836d47)

  154. I remember taking a Western Civ class at U of PA and the obnoxious Marxist lesbian professor
    Lynn Hunt
    introduced me to the joys of Michel Foucault who was the flavor of the year in terms of analyzing the world. Thank God I soon afterward had the joy of reading
    Camille Paglia’s wonderful Why I Hate Foucault
    to cleanse my soul!

    Jack Klompus (b0e238)

  155. Great post, but it just frightening. When will people stop covering their eyes and ears to reality? This crime had a hell of a lot to do with Islam if you read the Quran and Hadith.

    Silly Allah (d4c45e)

  156. The wistful Dana wrote:

    My site’s so slow even parsnip never visits.

    So, what happened?

    Parsnip wrote:

    Present!

    To which Another Drew responded:

    Be very careful what you ask for.

    I/m doomed.

    The dead-man walking Dana (3e4784)


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