Patterico's Pontifications

11/13/2008

Kurtz: No Mainstream Media Outlet Published Trig Trutherism Until McCain Brought It Up. Oh Really???

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:31 am

Howard Kurtz, in accusing Sarah Palin of misstating some facts, misstates some facts:

While taking swipes at bloggers — “probably sitting there in their parents’ basement, wearing their pajamas” — Palin also misstated some facts. She complained to Lauer about “the rumors, the speculation, even in mainstream media, that Trig wasn’t actually my child, that Trig was somebody else’s child and I faked a pregnancy,” calling that “absolutely ridiculous.”

Wow. That misstates some facts?? Has Kurtz taken on Trig Trutherism? Let’s read on:

In fact, no mainstream outlet published the Internet rumors until the McCain campaign issued a statement, during the GOP convention, that Palin’s teenage daughter Bristol was pregnant. McCain officials told reporters they were putting out the news because of inquiries about whether the governor was really Trig’s mother.

First, how does that show Palin misstated any facts? She didn’t say: the mainstream media published scurrilous rumors about Trig’s parentage before we announced Bristol’s pregnancy. She said: the mainstream media published scurrilous rumors about Trig’s parentage. And you people did, Howard. Now you’re acting like you had no choice; as if McCain forced your hand by announcing that Bristol was pregnant.

But in any event, Kurtz is still rewriting history on this issue.

Is the Atlantic not part of the mainstream media? Because Andrew Sullivan of the Atlantic most assuredly was publishing these rumors before the McCain camp announced Bristol’s pregnancy.

In this post from August 31, 2008, Sullivan disgraced the Atlantic by publishing rumors that had previously been confined primarily to the fever swamps of the Daily Kos. Sullivan ticked off a number of facts that he found suspicious about Trig’s birth, and referred to “the rumors buzzing across the Internets and the press corps.” He said:

There must be plenty of medical records and obstetricians and medical eye-witnesses prepared to testify to Sarah Palin’s giving birth to Trig. There must be a record of Bristol’s high school attendance for the past year. And surely, surely, the McCain camp did due diligence on this. But the noise around this story is now deafening, and the weirdness of the chronology sufficient to rise to the level of good faith questions. So please give us these answers – and provide medical records for Sarah Palin’s pregnancy – and put this to rest.

It was not until the next day, September 1, that Palin made her daughter’s pregnancy public. I imagine the campaign felt compelled to respond because someone blogging on the site of a mainstream media outlet was chasing the story and giving it an undeserved aura of seriousness.

Maybe Kurtz is hesitant to point all this out because he was part of the ridiculous frenzy himself.

Kurtz should be writing about the fact that Andrew Sullivan, a blogger for a mainstream media outlet, is so unhinged that he still thinks this is a legitimate story, and still pledges to chase it down. Sullivan is certifiably insane, and yet retains his post at a mainstream outlet.

And Kurtz should not say Palin misstated facts. Instead, he should admit that he misstated the facts in this piece.

207 Responses to “Kurtz: No Mainstream Media Outlet Published Trig Trutherism Until McCain Brought It Up. Oh Really???”

  1. The ridiculous thing is, here is a woman who’s absolutely correct that the parentage of her youngest child was being questioned, and Kurtz actually finds it important to say she misstated facts about the timing. The timing? Really Howard?

    MayBee (d8edb1)

  2. MSNBC and Liberal Bloggers taken in by Palin Hoax.

    Looks like the MSM is trying to come clean, but these revealations only enhance the image of them being biased for Obama and biased against the GOP.

    PCD (7fe637)

  3. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_en_tv/palin_hoax_1

    This is the link that did not show up in #2.

    PCD (7fe637)

  4. OH, Oh, the liberal gremlins are attacking. They won’t let me link in a story about MSNBC admitting they broadcast a hoax about Palin.

    PCD (7fe637)

  5. The Deciders have spoken. Inconvenient Truths go down the memory hole.

    Techie (62bc5d)

  6. Gee, now that the Libs/MSM have the chosen one as President-elect, they are now trying to place blame on the lies that they generated during the election cycle, and in the process deflecting blame from themselves. I also find it ironic that some in the MSM have come out and are wondering about Barry’s “credentials” and if he’s “qualified” to be POTUS…guess they need to look at their processes for vetting politicians.

    fmfnavydoc (f4bf7d)

  7. Well, I hope that you can get Kurtz to admit his error.

    And later, monkeys will fly out of…you know the rest.

    Eric Blair (a723e0)

  8. We “libtards” really think you should invest the future of the conservative movement on “…plain ole Sarah from Alaska”.

    That’ll teach us elitists to make fun of totally unprepared people. I mean hell, we didn’t learn when we made fun of Brownie, so please, you champions of the average guy, please show us the error of our ways by going all in on Palin.

    The Other Ed (8285f1)

  9. “That’ll teach us elitists to make fun of totally unprepared people.”

    So, how, precisely, is the gutter trash from Chicago “prepared” to assume the highest executive position in the country? What are the accomplishments which might lead a person to presume that he possessed ought but a knack for self aggrandizement?

    Take your time – use the whole matchbook cover.

    Rick Ballard (e3e91f)

  10. Once again we see the Highlights for Children memes brought out by the lefties. Second verse, same as the first.

    Dmac (e30284)

  11. “. . . the gutter trash from Chicago . . .”

    “gutter trash”?

    It’s talk like this that turned off many undecided voters.

    Yeah, yeah, I know, you don’t care.

    Patterico (0387a4)

  12. The Sullivan rant is disgusting. In a way, it is kind of sad that he is so crazy. He is very interested in the tactic of people lying about their medical conditions to gain political advantage and popularity. What a strange road for him to go down.

    Are there witnesses to Elizabeth Edwards’ cancer tests? A sympathy play? Where are the witnesses to McCain’s face surgery to remove skin cancer? Could McCain’s fake cancer be part of an umbrella diabolical scheme to win the election? What journalists and bloggers might be faking illnesses and child births to win lucrative contracts? Roger Ebert? Katie Couric? Neil Cavuto? Without independent eye witnesses, how can we be sure? Why haven’t the eye witnesses come forward? These are just questions. Not accusing anyone of anything, of course.

    What was this mainstream journalist, Andrew Sullivan, thinking bringing this up?

    Wesson (f6c982)

  13. You’re under the mistaken assumption that Kurtz cares about the truth.

    The creed is “party first”, not “journalism first”.

    Greg Ransom (ff5e16)

  14. What is the _first_ instinct of these guys? It’s “party first”, the only secondary instinct, which comes later is “journalism first” which is motivated more out of “cover your ass” than any strong internal psychological commitment to truth.

    Greg Ransom (ff5e16)

  15. Patterico – Apparently Sullivan was still at it yesterday with a piece summarizing all his questions, gaining plaudits from all the usual suspects.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  16. Patterico,

    I consider President-elect Obama’s misstatements concerning his whole hearted support of BAIPA to be “lies” rather than dissimulation and I consider his use of funds designated to help improve the education of Chicago children to build a political organization to be “theft”. I also consider liars and thieves to be gutter trash.

    In deference to your sensitivity I am quite willing to refer to President-elect Obama by that designation and I will refer to him as President Obama after inauguration. Referring to him in that manner will not change the fact that he is, IMO, a liar and a thief but it’s your blog and your rules. If you wish to call sunlight moonlight you may do so but it doesn’t really change the true nature of sunlight.

    PS – You might want to review the history of Obsidian Wings prior to handing out keys to guest bloggers.

    Rick Ballard (e3e91f)

  17. My sources say “Andrew Sullivan” and “The Atlantic” are hoax sites.

    Greg Ransom (ff5e16)

  18. The evidence I’ve seen suggests the “Washington Post” might be a hoax site too.

    Greg Ransom (ff5e16)

  19. Thank you for writing this, Patterico. My reaction to the Kurtz piece was the same as yours, but I didn’t have the links immediately at hand.

    In my book, Kurtz has forfeited almost all of the credibility he had accrued before the 2008 election.

    Beldar (35992a)

  20. There is “truth” and then there is “political truth”. I might write plagiarize about it sometime.

    nk (87c95e)

  21. Howard Kurtz and the rest of the pile on gang who make a living by creatively writing disparagingly about Governor Palin are a joke. The only reason readers stay loyal to “journalists” is to learn something. There is much better fiction to be found than to waste one’s time with Kurtz or Sullivan.
    I’m off to inform the advertisers that I won’t support their yellow journalism.

    Susan G (ee01f7)

  22. BTW: Juggy is not President-elect before the Electoral College has said so.

    nk (87c95e)

  23. It’s not surprising that Wesson, “probably sitting there in their parents’ basement, wearing their pajamas”, missed the point of Sullivan’s piece. Sullivan’s topic wasn’t “people lying about their medical conditions”. It was Howard Kurtz lying.

    Warren (62eba3)

  24. Is Sullivan a blogger or part of the “MSM” or both? He blogs for the Atlantic Monthly. Are his posts subject to the magazine’s editorial review process? I don’t know and don’t know how much that matters. Perhaps Kurtz should have said that major print media didn’t bring up Bristol Palin’s pregnancy until the McCain campaign issued a press release on the subject.

    I share your negative judgment of Sullivan in this matter. Your differences with Kurtz may have more to do with how “MSM” is defined.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  25. Journalists like this give the few who are credible a bad name. Obama and his leftist illuminati supporters had the liberal MSM in their hip pockets throughout the campaign and it looks like it will continue after he takes office.

    Jeff (3cb047)

  26. Keep right on bemoaning the treatment of your poor, little bubbleheaded Sarah. It’s great comedy!

    JohnnyRussia (32f4ad)

  27. Note well that “Persily” quoted to trash Palin really isn’t a former Palin aid, and the Kurtz and the Post have been using him to trash Palin for months.

    This is politics, not “journalism”.

    On Persily” and Kurtz, read this:

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2008/11/13/ex-palin-aide-mocking-her-foolish-also-worked-alaska-democrat

    Greg Ransom (ff5e16)

  28. Has anyone credible examined the vaulted copy of Obama’s birth certificate? You know, the official one printed on the controlled form/paper and assigned a proper number – at the tome of birth!!!!

    Fair is Fair

    Dave (e8a1f4)

  29. Andrew Sullivan is hardly “mainstream media.” He is a pundit not a journalist.

    Andrew S. (a20a80)

  30. I call it a difference of perspective. Kurtz, writing for a Mainstream Media Organ, doesn’t think of blogs as being part of the Mainstream Media, even if they appear on websites that are part of a Mainstream Media Organ. It’s only what appears in the Print Edition that counts.
    (This attitude, of course, also allows the LA Times to memory hole previous versions of its articles that appear on its website because they don’t count until they appear in the print edition.)

    Palin, for all her yahoo-ism (in the Swiftian, not the Internet sense), perceives that at least some blogs are part of the Mainstream Media.

    kishnevi (ab2f41)

  31. Has anyone credible examined the vaulted copy of Obama’s birth certificate?

    Heh! There is another way to bring up the issue. Also a Constitutional one. Whether he has achieved the age of thirty-five years. We’ll see his proof of birth then.

    Knock it off, morons. Obama will be President and we need to think of practical ways to protect ourselves from him.

    nk (87c95e)

  32. The Left continues to re-write history right in front of our noses.

    JD (94c827)

  33. I think Daily Kos is let off too easily here. It may not be a mainstream media outlet, but it is a mainstream Democratic Party outlet.
    All the Democratic candidates have gone to Yearly Kos. Representatives attended Netroots Nation this year. Democratic politicians and operatives post there frequently. News organizations are known to go there for stories.

    The Obama campaign first released the birth certificate to Kos. They may not have a newspaper, but they aren’t just a fever swamp.

    MayBee (d8edb1)

  34. They may not have a newspaper, but they aren’t just a fever swamp.

    Oh, sure they are. It is just that the Dems derive a benefit from this fever swamp, so it is alright.

    JD (94c827)

  35. I agree those rumors about Trig not being Palin’s baby were utter nonsense, I thought that then as much as I think it now. Again “Unhinged” falls on both sides of the aisle.

    However, aren’t apples and oranges being compared here?

    I might have missed something in this post.

    The issue is about whether or not Bristol’s pregnancy was released by the MSM before Palin announced it correct?

    I don’t see where that was stated among the nonsense about Trig being Bristol’s baby.

    I could be wrong, please show me the exact sentence where we see this prior to September 1, 2008.

    Oiram (983921)

  36. Andrew Sullivan is not a decent human being. He is a terrible and disgusting human being.

    Kensington (da7f3e)

  37. [Sullivan] is a terrible and disgusting human being.

    Hey, whoa. This is Patterico.com – Sullivan is a good man who does terrible and disgusting things.

    There’s a distinction there.
    Maybe a difference, too.

    ~ cough ~

    I mean, hell, Sullivan has a beagle. How non-good could he be?

    BumperStickerist (54b3a3)

  38. It makes you wonder about the layers of editorial review, and the painstaking research, done in the name of accuracy and journalistic integrity….
    Oh, excuse me, I forgot we were talking about someone from the WaPo & CNN!

    They don’t seem to grasp the concept that if you put something on the web, and then take it down, it still exists for the record somewhere, and it will be found, and you will look pretty f…… stupid over it, eventually.

    From Warhol’s 15-Minutes of Fame, to the new Net 15-Seconds of Shame, except it’s much harder to get your reputation back than your anonymity.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  39. Andrew Sullivan is calling Palin a “whack job” now.

    Rich.

    Greg Ransom (ff5e16)

  40. Dave @26 – I think the birth certificate is a dead issue, but Debbie Schlussel is attacking Obama’s Selective Service Registration. She can be a cupid stunt, but it’s interesting.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  41. The issue is about whether or not Bristol’s pregnancy was released by the MSM before Palin announced it correct?

    That’s Howard Kurtz’s issue. It certainly isn’t Sarah Palin’s.

    MayBee (d8edb1)

  42. #40 I understand that MayBee, it certainly is Kurt’s issue, but I still need to be shown where he released it prior to Palin releasing the info.

    Listen I agree with Palin on the disgusting rumors about Trig not being her’s.

    I heard Palin blame the MSM for releasing the info on Larry King last night. I want to know if she is right or not.

    Oiram (983921)

  43. Oiram- do you not think The Atlantic is part of the mainstream media?

    MayBee (d8edb1)

  44. but I still need to be shown where he released it prior to Palin releasing the info.

    Your needs really are not at issue here.

    JD (94c827)

  45. MayBee – No, he does not. He thinks Rush and talk radio in general is part of the MSM because they get paid a lot.

    JD (94c827)

  46. #42 Mabybee,

    There are so many definitions thrown around here about what the “MSM’ really is, plus I don’t know much about The Atlantic so I couldn’t give you a definite answer.

    However I do know that the Atlantic article your talking about was posted August 31, 2008, the day before Palin announced Bristol’s pregnancy to the MSM (we can agree on the applicable definition of MSM on that one).

    JD could care less about my needs, but the fact remains that no one has shown me where Bristol’s pregnancy is stated in the Atlantic article.

    Oiram (983921)

  47. Greg Ransom wrote: Andrew Sullivan is calling Palin a “whack job” now.

    You sure he was referring to Palin? Maybe it was another one of his personal ads.

    L.N. Smithee (a0b21b)

  48. Mario – I will direct you back to the post, which you appear to have not read.

    She didn’t say: the mainstream media published scurrilous rumors about Trig’s parentage before we announced Bristol’s pregnancy. She said: the mainstream media published scurrilous rumors about Trig’s parentage. And you people did, Howard. Now you’re acting like you had no choice; as if McCain forced your hand by announcing that Bristol was pregnant.

    JD (94c827)

  49. JD could care less about my needs, but the fact remains that no one has shown me where Bristol’s pregnancy is stated in the Atlantic article.

    And why should we need to? You are important only to yourself.

    nk (87c95e)

  50. but the fact remains that no one has shown me where Bristol’s pregnancy is stated in the Atlantic article.

    Palin was talking about the rumor that Bristol was the real mother of Trig.
    That’s what people are talking about, here.

    MayBee (d8edb1)

  51. MayBee wrote: Oiram- do you not think The Atlantic is part of the mainstream media?

    Oiram’s right. The Atlantic is a fly-by-night publication. It’s only been around for a few years, like around 1857.

    L.N. Smithee (a0b21b)

  52. But do they get paid as much as Rush, because that is the defining characteristic for Oiram. Rush gets paid a lot therefore he is part of the MSM.

    It is intentionally missing the point. It is what Mario does.

    JD (94c827)

  53. Thanks JD, that’s all I wanted.

    I still heard Palin say on Larry King last night that the MSM released Bristol’s pregnancy prior to September 1, 2008.

    #48 And why should we need to? You are important only to yourself.

    nk – that’s the kind of attitude that is going to keep the Democrats in for the next 16 years.

    Keep it up.

    Oiram (983921)

  54. nk – that’s the kind of attitude that is going to keep the Democrats in for the next 16 years.

    Keep it up.

    Choice one: You’re absolutely right, my master. I want to be nice. Please don’t hurt me.
    Choice two: Up yours, liberal twit.

    Which one helps the liberal twits more?

    nk (87c95e)

  55. I still heard Palin say on Larry King last night that the MSM released Bristol’s pregnancy prior to September 1, 2008.

    Maybe if you could find a link to the transcript, we could help you out.
    As far as I know, prior to Sept 1, they were talking about Bristol’s pregnancy of Trig.

    MayBee (d8edb1)

  56. No JD, I got your definition of what the MSM is.

    Networks need to report the news when they say they are doing so, without injecting their opinions.

    I’ll concede that a lot of networks do lean to the left, but I’m not sure you realize or rather want to realize how many out there tilt to your right.

    See, my definition of MSM is any media that reaches a main stream audience. Thus Rush’s income reflects his listening audience, must be pretty large right?
    I think he reaches a mains stream based on that, and of course he is “Media”.

    Oiram (983921)

  57. #54 When you tell me “As far as I know, prior to Sept 1, they were talking about Bristol’s pregnancy of Trig.”

    I’m really not in the mood to hunt for Palin’s transcript on Larry King.

    Oiram (983921)

  58. Water, meet bridge. Bridge, say hello to water.

    Oh, I see you’ve already met.

    And she was really that big a joke? Oprah for rednecks, huh?? A guarantee that the Dems hold on to power for 40 + years and the GOP further dissolves into an anti-intellectual glee club for racist religious fanatics and Reagan groupie assclowns?

    Hmmm….well then…Carry on. Upward and onward.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  59. I still heard Palin say on Larry King last night that the MSM released Bristol’s pregnancy prior to September 1, 2008.

    What you heard and what she said do not appear to match up.

    And arguing over the timeline really is a distraction from the actual topic which is the fevered musings of the MSM about the lineage of the child, etc … Stuff that Excitable Andy is still writing about to this date.

    JD (94c827)

  60. but I’m not sure you realize or rather want to realize how many out there tilt to your right.

    Fox News, the majority of talk radio. That is it. None of which I am a consumer of. But talk radio is not news, it is opinion. It does not claim to be news, unlike the MSM.

    I’m really not in the mood to hunt for the actual facts …

    There, fixed that for you.

    Peter proves again what we already know to be the case.

    JD (94c827)

  61. #58 “Andy” is wrong to right about it now as much as he was then.

    Once again……. “unhinged” fall on both sides of the aisle.

    Oiram (983921)

  62. write, not right. Sorry.

    Oiram (983921)

  63. #59 So…….. Fox does not give their Opinions JD?

    I never said I’m really not in the mood to hunt for the actual facts …

    Revisionist

    Oiram (983921)

  64. It is intentionally missing the point. It is what Mario does.

    Or does he just have extremely poor reading comprehension? I picture him lapping up a sentence, forgetting the arrangement of the words, and summarizing it to himself in a way that has nothing to do with the author’s intended meaning–and not being able to understand the difference. Sort of like a teenager misconstrues parental injunctions.
    If it’s poor reading comprehension, then there might be hope that he could learn.

    m (dc4bf4)

  65. #59 JD writes – “Fox News, the majority of talk radio. That is it. None of which I am a consumer of. But talk radio is not news, it is opinion. It does not claim to be news, unlike the MSM.

    Talk radio claims to be news all the time JD. Your not a “consumer” of most of it, perhaps that’s why your confused about it.

    Perhaps that is why you don’t consider it Main Stream.

    If JD is not a “consumer” of something, it must mean it’s not Main Stream.

    Oiram (983921)

  66. #18 Beldar:

    In my book, Kurtz has forfeited almost all of the credibility he had accrued before the 2008 election.

    Stanley Kurtz has most certainly forfeited all of the very tiny smidgen of credibility he had before the 2008 election. As a matter of fact, if credibility was a currency (and it is), Stanley Kurtz would be so far in the red he’d need a government hand out (Which I’m sure he would happily accept, being as profit is for the rich and loss is for the middle class.)

    Plus, he’s the most feared bully of librarians, in all of the land. They tremble in their sense-able booties when he walks by…

    Peter (e70d1c)

  67. Oiram, here’s a little excercise for you that might get everyone on the same page…
    Please compile a list of what you perceive to be the MSM, and how they fall on a
    Far-Left, Left, Center-Left, Centrist, Center-Right, Right, Far-Right continuum.
    Then, we get to discuss each of your choices until agreement is reached as to the accuracy of the list.
    Then, when discussing the media, we all will know what the parameters of their philosophy is, or how it is perceived.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  68. #63 Thanks for the comedy m…….. You and JD should have that dyslexia checked.

    Perhaps Dr. Vinnie Boom Bah can help you.

    Oiram (983921)

  69. Plus, he’s the most feared bully of librarians, in all of the land. They tremble in their sense-able booties when he walks by…

    Comment by Peter — 11/13/2008 @ 10:38 am

    Or, are they just getting a tingle up their leg?

    Another Drew (51839f)

  70. Oh wait…he doesn’t walk by, he THUNDERS by, with the conviction of a right-wing fool.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  71. #67 Sorry Another Drew, but I don’t feel like discussing the tilts in Media with you or anyone here.

    It’s so easy for both sides to spin the facts on that issue.

    I will tell you once again what Main Stream Media means to me:

    Media that has become Main Stream (reaching a large audience) regardless of claims to being a news organization or not.

    I’ll accept your disagreement of my definition, and also your feelings that News organizations claiming to be news only are tilted one way or another.

    But make sure you consider the fact that sometimes “Talk Radio” reports the news.

    Oiram (983921)

  72. Comment by Oiram — 11/13/2008 @ 10:46 am
    Yes, usually at the Hour, and Half-hour.
    Other than that, the on-air personalities (what is known as “talent” in the entertainment industry)
    will read a news-clip, and then “Comment” on it -
    it is a unique form of discussion called “Commentary”,
    which is separate from “Journalism” (ie, News).

    And, once again you run from an engagement on the intellectual merits of your argument.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  73. we need to think of practical ways to protect ourselves from him.

    Go “John Galt” on the Looters.

    Horatio (55069c)

  74. #71 (At least I don’t sprint)

    “Yes, usually at the Hour, and Half-hour.”

    Agreed, that’s when talk radio does the news. I’ve listened to both left wing (Air America) and all of the rest of them.

    Both inject their views in the “Hour, and Half-hour” news.

    I don’t have to tell you my position on The Fairness Doctrine right Another Drew?

    So Another Drew based on your comment in #71 do you consider Radio to be Main Stream Media?

    Oiram (983921)

  75. This is one of those occasions when Wikipedia is adequate (footnotes omitted):

    The Atlantic (formerly known as The Atlantic Monthly) is an American magazine founded in Boston in 1857. Originally created as a literary and cultural commentary magazine, its current format is of a general editorial magazine. Written with content focusing on “foreign affairs, politics, and the economy [as well as] cultural trends”, it is primarily aimed at a target audience of “thought leaders.”

    The magazine’s founders were a group of writers that included Harriet Beecher Stowe, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., and James Russell Lowell (who would become its first editor)….

    So how much more mainstream does a medium have to be to qualify in Kurtz’ estimation?

    (We could have a séance and ask some of the founders, but we’d have to get any of them to stop spinning in his/her grave long enough at the notion of the depths to which Andrew Sullivan’s trash has brought this once-proud institution. What’s next? Jerry Springer as editor in chief of the New Yorker?)

    Beldar (35992a)

  76. No, as we have discussed before, the term MSM is a self-identity by the old dragons of media:
    ABC, NBC, CBS, AP, CNN, NYT, WaPo, etc.

    Talk-radio (and I am very specific with that term, as it is generally AM-Radio, and doesn’t include PBS, or NPR) is a reaction to the MSM, not a part of it.
    In fact, the MSM is very derisive in their opinion of talk-radio, yet they never are critical of themselves no matter how much they screw up.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  77. What’s next? Jerry Springer as editor in chief of the New Yorker?)

    No, but News Director @ CBS isn’t outside of consideration.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  78. #74 Thanks Beldar. So we are considering The Atlantic part of the MSM, is that correct?

    Originally a “Commentary Magazine” Now and “Editorial” Magazine.

    So based on that……… Kurtz has his head up his you know what. (I concur)

    Another Drew, JD and company…….. please remind me again why we don’t consider Talk Radio to be part of the MSM?

    Oiram (983921)

  79. Mister Ed was a talking horse. We just heard from “The Other Ed.”

    JustInsideTheBeltway (3d6fa0)

  80. #75 “No, as we have discussed before, the term MSM is a self-identity by the old dragons of media:
    ABC, NBC, CBS, AP, CNN, NYT, WaPo, etc.”

    Is that written in stone somewhere?

    Oiram (983921)

  81. In fact, no mainstream outlet published the Internet rumors until the McCain campaign issued a statement, during the GOP convention, that Palin’s teenage daughter Bristol was pregnant. McCain officials told reporters they were putting out the news because of inquiries about whether the governor was really Trig’s mother.

    Kurtz, who is more noble than most reporters but still a dyed-in-the-wool MSM drone himself, is performing a little defensive sleight-of-hand here. He wrote “no mainstream outlet published the Internet rumors until the McCain campaign issued a statement,” and that the McCampaign put out the news about Bristol “because of inquiries about whether the governor was really Trig’s mother.”

    Uh, Howie? Who was it that was actually making the “inquiries”? Were all the “inquiries” coming from the basement-dwelling pajama-wearing bloggers chasing Mc-P staffers through the streets of St. Paul, MN in their Homer Simpson slippers? It is to laugh.

    Maybe Kurtz has forgotten this conversation from his own maddog TV show, broadcast September 7, 2008 (bold mine):

    HOWARD KURTZ: [...] Let me get to another issue here, because as I mentioned at the top, Steve Schmidt had been criticizing the coverage quite vociferously of Sarah Palin. He also did some of this on TV. Here’s what he had to say on CBS.

    (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

    STEVE SCHMIDT, MCCAIN CAMPAIGN SR. ADVISER: I’ve been asked questions when her amniotic fluid started to leak with regard to her last birth. Members of this campaign went to off-the-record lunches with reporters today, and they were asked if she would do a paternity test to prove paternity for her last child. Smear after smear after smear, and it’s disgraceful and it’s wrong.
    (END VIDEO CLIP)

    KURTZ: Emily Rooney, are those the kinds of questions journalists should be asking of a vice presidential candidate?

    Note how long it takes Ms. Rooney to answer the question.

    EMILY ROONEY, HOST OF BEAT THE PRESS [WGBH-TV, BOSTON]: I would like to know who asked that question. He never said who. He said mainstream press. Who? Is the Daily Kos mainstream press? Who?

    KURTZ: I don’t know.

    ROONEY: Were you at that press conference? I mean…

    KURTZ: They told me that reputable journalists from major national news organizations have asked…

    ROONEY: I don’t know.

    KURTZ: … about these questions. But the distinction here is, unlike some of the liberal blogs, they haven’t published this. They’re asking the questions. So then it becomes, well, is asking the question in itself unfair?

    ROONEY: No. I mean, there was a lot of information that came out, some had been in the tabloids. You have to, you know, source some of these things, too. “US Weekly,” various tabloid publications, who said things about the pregnancies. That was one of the questions. I mean, is she willing to take a paternity test — is she willing to take a maternity test?

    I mean, you can ask the question. I didn’t see it printed anywhere. I didn’t see it on CNN. I didn’t see it on “The CBS Evening News.” I was shocked I did see what Steve Schmidt said, but I didn’t see where it actually appeared anywhere.

    KURTZ: Is there an attempt, Roger Simon, by the McCain campaign to lump all of this together, the legitimate questions about her record and background, and who is Sarah Palin — after all, she was a stranger to most of the country and the other 49 states — the questions about the daughter’s pregnancy, the questions about the Down syndrome baby, the liberal blogs that said she actually faked the pregnancy and she was the grandmother to this baby, and supermarket tabloid stuff?

    So, lemme get this straight, Howie: Members of the mainstream media can ask detailed, invasive questions that had their origin in rumors from websites operated by sworn enemies, and that doesn’t count as “rumors, the speculation, even in mainstream media”? Schmidt and other McCain Campsters were just to assume that maliciously anti-Palin MSM smear artists (like the Post‘s own Anne Kornblut) would just ask the stupid questions, but not run with them?

    C’mon, Kurtz, give it up. You MSMers are finally coming down from your sweet love hangover, and now you’re realizing that now people think you’re all sluts. Well, it’s too late. With this defensive nonsense, you’re just changing the shoes you’re wearing, not proving they don’t fit.

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  82. Only on the obverse of your brain!

    Another Drew (51839f)

  83. Speaking of once proud publications. Anyone care to dispute that William Buckley Jr. probably wouldn’t have even deigned to use National Review to line his bird cage or wrap fish in, before he kicked off.

    Perfect micro-instance, of just how far the Right has fallen right there. They’ve given in to the bullies and the blowhards. The vapid and the hateful. The fanatics and the proudly ignorant.

    How sad.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  84. Also Another Drew, where does The Atlantic fit in with your definition of MSM?

    I believe the original post here hinges on The Atlantic being part of MSM, does it not?

    Oiram (983921)

  85. Is that written in stone somewhere?

    Comment by Oiram — 11/13/2008 @ 11:20 am

    Only on the obverse of your brain!

    Comment by Another Drew — 11/13/2008 @ 11:22 am

    And so the card reveals itself, thanks Mr. Drew. I think the student just taught the teacher.

    Oiram (983921)

  86. Comment by L.N. Smithee — 11/13/2008 @ 11:22 am

    Thanks for the info, LN.
    The question of what is mainstream press by Emily Rooney,
    almost makes me think that Oiram is her evil twin –
    they certainly think alike.

    There seems to be a certain pathology that is quite destructive to intellectual honesty that runs rampant amonst the Left.
    One can only hope for some form of exocism to restore integrity to Liberalism.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  87. Sad indeed Peter :(

    Oiram (983921)

  88. Oiram-
    Palin complained about about “the rumors, the speculation, even in mainstream media, that Trig wasn’t actually my child, that Trig was somebody else’s child and I faked a pregnancy,” calling that “absolutely ridiculous.”
    ====
    Any thing about timing or publishing is strictly Howard Kurtz’s own strawman.

    If the press was asking Schmidt about it, they were speculating about it *and she knew it*.

    MayBee (d8edb1)

  89. Comment by Oiram — 11/13/2008 @ 11:27 am

    I am not your teacher, and you are not an honest student, only a pest who refuses to comply with certain norms of intellectual discourse.
    If you were a student of mine, you would have failed this course with a grade of Zero, for your lack of accomplishment, but even more for your lack of a desire to learn.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  90. Comment by Oiram — 11/13/2008 @ 11:23 am

    Yes, The Atlantic is as much a part of the MSM as is Time, Newsweek and The New Yorker, as would be Life, Look, and The Saturday Evening Post, if they were still around.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  91. Peter wrote: [...]the GOP further dissolves into an anti-intellectual glee club for racist religious fanatics and Reagan groupie assclowns?

    The GOP doesn’t have a glee club, the Obamanoids do, as did other leftist leaders. And unlike the Wacko Barakos, when we speak glowingly of Ronald Reagan, we know of whom we are speaking: The patriotic, articulate, and unapologetic conservative, the successful Governor of California, the President that won the Cold War without firing a shot.

    And Obama is … who? What?

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  92. #88 “norms of intellectual discourse.”

    Here is your chance to up my grade Another Drew.

    Who’s “norms”, when considering The Main Stream Media?

    Oiram (983921)

  93. Another Drew — The Saturday Evening Post IS still around. It’s just published in normal dimensions and has photos of celebs on the cover rather than those magnificent illustrations by J.C. Leyendecker and Norman Rockwell.

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  94. Well, that’s what comes from subscribing to what you want, and not browsing through the publication section at the market.
    Haven’t actually seen a copy of TSEP in over 20-years, or heard anyone refer to it.
    Such is the change in our society.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  95. Peter, quit telling us about what you see when you look in a mirror.

    mariO, you have devolved into a 1st class jerk. You refuse to acknowledge ANY true fact that ruins your nutroots rants.

    PCD (7fe637)

  96. PCD, Thanks PCD.

    Your saying it’s wrong for me to question everyone’s reasoning behind eliminating Radio from the term “Main Stream Media”.

    And calling me a jerk, Nice.

    You know PCD I’m against fiddling with Radio the way a lot of liberals are. You should have a little more respect for me than that.

    The only reason I bring up Radio as part of the MSM is I think a lot of people disregard The Limbaugh’s and Hanity’s in the Radio world. As a Democrat, I want to make sure conservatives are aware of the “tilt” that exists in the radio world. Again, I have no qualms with that Tilt. It is definitely evidence of the free market at work….. which you all should embrace as much as I do.

    Oiram (983921)

  97. see: http://www.palindeception.com re: unanswered questions

    peedoffAmurican (12815c)

  98. “The issue is about whether or not Bristol’s pregnancy was released by the MSM before Palin announced it correct?”

    Incorrect, MariO.

    Read what Palin said again. The issue is 1) did mainstream media publish rumors that Trig Palin was not Sarah Palin’s son, and 2) did they do so before McCain disclosed Bristol Palin’s pregnancy.

    The answer to 1) is yes. Meaning Palin did not misstate facts. Kurtz did.

    The answer to 2) is also yes, if the Atlantic’s web site is mainstream media.

    Patterico (5489a9)

  99. 95, mariO, you are mixing Apples and Oranges to justify yourself. Even on Radio, where is there a Right Wing News program? NPR is Left Wing Propaganda, but shouldn’t the Democrats have to share NPR since it is taxpayer funded? Hannity, Limbaugh, etc. are privately funded. If you can’t see that difference and accept it, there is no reason to talk to you about anything.

    PCD (7fe637)

  100. What are facts, to a liberal, but what one chooses to believe at the moment?

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  101. “JD could care less about my needs, but the fact remains that no one has shown me where Bristol’s pregnancy is stated in the Atlantic article.”

    Nobody can show me where the circumference of Africa is stated in that article.

    Of course, neither is what Palin was talking about. She was talking, not about the fact of Bristol’s current pregnancy (reported the next day) but rumors of Bristol’s pregnancy before Trig’s birth, as relevant to rumors that Trig was Bristol’s child.

    That’s what Sullivan’s post was all about.

    So leave the strawman at the door, please.

    Patterico (a48c8c)

  102. #90 LN Smithee:

    The patriotic, articulate, and unapologetic conservative, the successful Governor of California, the President that won the Cold War without firing a shot.

    Last time I checked he was still dead. As was his economic model for prosperity after being eviscerated by the Right and shown for the rich only ponzi scheme that it was. Yeah, how is that 401k looking LN?

    And Obama is … who? What?

    He is your new president. Show some respect. His accomplishments will speak for themselves, and you, LN, as repellent as I’m sure it must sound right now, will come to respect and admire him. You’ll probably even begrudgingly vote for him in 2012. I’m psychic about these things…

    Peter (e70d1c)

  103. #96 Patterico, I understand that I misunderstood the original post here. Sorry for that.

    I’ve even denounced Andrew Sullivan a few times here.

    I do however have a problem with The Atlantic being considered Main Stream Media under the criteria of many here.

    Many of the comments here tried to give me a logical definition, in fact some contradict The Atlantic as MSM.

    My point is, I don’t think anyone has a definite answer, including Palin for that matter.

    Sorry to bring back Radio, but it bothers me that it’s not included in the MSM here and in the conservative world.

    #97 I didn’t know that Rush was “Privately funded”. Doesn’t he air commercials? Don’t sponsors pay for him based on ratings?

    Oiram (983921)

  104. Hey, I want to see Lovey lose her shit again today.

    Has the lying potty mouth mommy been around?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  105. #97 I didn’t know that Rush was “Privately funded”. Doesn’t he air commercials? Don’t sponsors pay for him based on ratings?

    That’s the very definition of privately funded: Limbaugh doesn’t get his money from the government.

    Steverino (69d941)

  106. My point is, I don’t think anyone has a definite answer, including Palin for that matter.

    Palin did not attempt to answer the question “what is mainstream media”. She merely correctly pointed out that mainstream media outlets speculated about Trig’s parentage. It is a fact they did.

    MayBee (d8edb1)

  107. Comment by daleyrocks — 11/13/2008 @ 12:49 pm

    No, I guess it didn’t like the spanking it got yesterday.
    Though, the passive/aggressive tone that the mario-one has assumed today does seem eerily familiar to the scribblings of TokyoRose.
    Plus, his wilful obtuseness over this entire MSM thing.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  108. I only read the first few comments on this “story”. First of all, I used to be in the news business. Bloggers are not subject to the limitations and albeit special privileges of a reporter (as a blogger, your audience is probably MUCH smaller, thus fewer people are exposed to what you disseminate. Also, you are totally liable for what you disseminate. On the other hand, NOWHERE do you have to use your REAL NAME, so determining your identity and finding you, while not impossible, could be very difficult. A reporter, on the other hand (at least when I was in the business 15-25 years ago), was protected by the fact that an accuser had to prove malice. On the other hand, you had an employer to please (as in not getting said employer sued) and your REAL NAME was public knowledge and with that you could also be FOUND.) So, folks, anything you read on a blog is HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE AT BEST. Secondarily, medical records are at least supposedly private, thus no one SHOULD be able to publicly divulge the medical record of either Gov. OR Bristol Palin. And whatever happened to decency? Is this OUR BUSINESS? The ONLY reason Sarah Palin and her family were subjected to this is that she is a fundamentalist Christian and secondarily a Republican. Pres.-elect Obama has said that he wouldn’t “punish” his children with an unwanted pregnancy. Based on that assertion, isn’t it only fair to investigate whether Obama has any abortions in HIS PAST?? Just a thought. Let’s also get to the real cultural meat here, though: even accepting the wild-eyed assertion that Trig is Bristol’s kid, what does that prove? It proves three things, ALL OF THEM ANATHEMA TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY’S (LARGE) FEMINIST WING:

    1. Bristol’s family loved EVEN A DOWN’S SYNDROME CHILD AND LIVED THEIR BELIEFS enough to keep that child (and anyone who saw that picture of Bristol holding her-ahem-brother could see the love that she has for that child, regardless of WHO his mother is!)

    2. Again, accepting the wild-eyed accusation, that SOMEONE was very fertile.

    3. That she likes MEN (OOOMMMMMGGGGG!!!)

    Oh, and a fourth point: according to modern pop psychology, that means she probably has had a POSITIVE relationship with her DAD (OOOOMMMMMGGGGG!!!)

    Steve (892c3b)

  109. #103 Steverino, Last time I checked, CNN, FOX, MSNBC etc. don’t get their funds from the government either.

    Again, confusion on what MSM really means.

    Oiram (983921)

  110. He is your new president. Show some respect.

    Funniest thing you’ve written here in awhile, Peter. Pray tell us then, when did your posts show any appreciation or respect for actions that Bush has undertaken over the past year or so? Did you laud his huge monetary aid committment to combat AIDS in Africa? How about his support for the nascent democracies in Eastern Europe? Anything? Hello? Bueller?

    Dmac (e30284)

  111. I’ve been called here at Patterico, a jerk, a shill, a Mario, a troll, and a lot more not to be mentioned ever again.

    But I gotta tell you Another Drew, TokyoRose takes the cake.

    Whatever floats your boat.

    Oiram (983921)

  112. Yesterday one of the local fishwraps editorialized that Chaining future to Palin will lkeave GOP dragging. Wake up conservatives! The Palm Beach Post says trends favor more of a Charlie Crist approach.You know- because liberal media elites really care about the success of conservatism. “Like a penny stock, she (palin) rose quickly and dropped even faster.” “Christ believes in man-made global warming and renewable energy, and he rounds off the social issues.” The Post doesn’t think social issues much matter. Yes, I think I want to support the candidates who love having America bend over for algore’s AGW scam and take it like a man.
    Meanwhile dipwad Cynthia Tucker opines that she did not think her generation was ready for Barry. barry sure overcame so much when our churches remain so segregated. Barf.
    Meanwhile the other dog liner down in Ft. Lauderdale thinks O! has a “different aura” than Bush as far as changing the Mideast? I guess Bush didn’t force the durty Jooos to give up enough to the poor, widdle oppressed/forever refugees/most foreign aid to assclowns Palis? Ooohhh, Obama will have ImADamnNutjob pooping in his panties?

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  113. #105 “I guess it didn’t like the spanking it got yesterday.”

    You mean when I had to explain to a lot of people here that Obama’s tax plan was on net profits not gross?

    Is that the “spanking” your referring to?

    Oiram (983921)

  114. #105 Sorry Another Drew I thought you meant I was the one that got the spanking in your comment along with calling me TokyoRose.

    I guess you were referring to love2008. There might have been a spanking there.

    Oiram (983921)

  115. Oiram – If the shoe fits, wear it. You and Lovey are not usually seen on this blog at the same time are you?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  116. #113 Daley, you now know my shtick. You figured me out. I have two identities.

    I’m also Batman

    Get a life Daley.

    Oiram (983921)

  117. Robin….. to the batmobile!

    Oiram (983921)

  118. Calling something published in The Atlantic’s magazine version a mainstream news outlet is a stretch. Calling something published on a blog there is even more of a stretch, especially in a blog that does very little actual original reporting. And that’s especially true considering the debate here is whether this went beyond the blogosphere. By pointing to a blog post to argue it went outside the blogosphere seems kind of silly in my mind.

    Simon Owes (9a05d9)

  119. Alfred, get young Mr. Grayson(oiram) back into his tights please.

    daleyrocks (47d048)

  120. #117 Humor had been lacking here today Daley, thanks.

    Oiram (983921)

  121. 103 Steverino, Last time I checked, CNN, FOX, MSNBC etc. don’t get their funds from the government either.

    No one ever said they didn’t. Someone did mention NPR, which does get its money from the government.

    You seem to have trouble keeping issues like this separate in your head. Either that, or you’re being deliberately obtuse. Neither speaks well of you.

    Steverino (69d941)

  122. You see Steverino, the obtuse part is what defines MSM. No one here has convinced me they really know.

    I don’t either, but I have an opinion of what it is, which I suspect all of you do as well.

    People here love to bash what they consider MSM but conveniently leave out Radio. Why?

    My argument is why should Rush for example, who is funded by viewer sponsorship, and a lot of it, which means high ratings, not be considered Main Stream Media?

    He tells us the news all of the time. Him and other networks on the radio including left leaning networks tell us their version of the news every half hour and hour.

    Please someone make it clear cut without being biased.

    Oiram (983921)

  123. You know I’ve even heard Right wing talk show hosts refer to Hollywood as the MSM. Even musicians.

    What gives Right wing world?

    Make up your mind please.

    Oiram (983921)

  124. Larry Elders, Laura Ingrahm, O’Reilly, Hannity, to name a few.

    In case you wanted me to tell you who I listen to.

    Oiram (983921)

  125. Oiram, #121, “MSM” = “Main Stream Media”. Film is media. Hollywood produces films.

    See how this logic thing works?

    SPQR (72771e)

  126. #123 Thank you so much SPQR! I really appreciate that.

    I get the logic my friend perfectly, glad you do too.

    Could you please explain your version of the MSM also including Radio to everyone here?

    Oiram (983921)

  127. As Eleanor Roosevelt once said:

    A troll can only thread jack with your consent …

    or something like that.

    Adriane (b8ecd8)

  128. People here love to bash what they consider MSM but conveniently leave out Radio. Why?

    Most people here speak of MSM in the context of news reporting. Talk Radio, whether conservative or liberal, is not news reporting. Radio personalities might read news stories, but these are stories which have been reported in other outlets.

    Now, there are radio news outlets. KNX 1070 AM in Los Angeles, for one, is an all-news station. Most radio stations, however, get their news feeds from organizations dedicated to providing news; these organizations typically feed on-air news reports to several stations.

    Steverino (69d941)

  129. For those annoyed by the mainstream media, here’s a little piece to lighten your day.

    Evil Pundit (843b74)

  130. MSM:
    A concept that is beyond trolls; especially those with severely limited intelligence typified by reoccurring brain-cramps.

    The commentariat here knows what it means by MSM, and we have explained ad nauseum what our definition is, which you refuse to assimilate, or acknowledge.

    Please don’t explain why we should continue to engage with you, who does not intend to engage in any meaningful manner.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  131. #126 Could you please relay that message to SPQR #123 and also the likes of Larry Elders, Rush, Hannity, O’Reilly, Ingrahm, and others who routinely refer to Film, and Music as “Main Stream Media”.

    Thanks Steverino.

    Oiram (983921)

  132. #128 Another Drew could you please tell your ad nauseum definition to Larry Elders, Rush, Hannity, O’Reilly, Ingrahm, and others who routinely refer to Film, and Music as “Main Stream Media”.

    Those trolls apparently didn’t get the memo either.

    Oiram (983921)

  133. This argument’s already stale well beyond the sell date – Oiram’s threadjacking is tiresome and redundant at this point. In the future, it would be best to ignore his attempts at forever redefining the MSM in his own peculiar terms.

    Having worked (in the past) within the “MSM,” I never had to redefine what the hell my industry encompassed, and that definition was clearly accepted by my co – workers as well. Those same co – workers were extremely liberal in most respects, and no one ever brought up talk radio in the text of that kind of conversation. End of story.

    Dmac (e30284)

  134. The claim that Palin did not know that Africa was not a country?

    Well, it turns out to be a hoax. So I’m confident we’ll have love2008 and truthnjustice repeating it as real for at least another 12 to 16 months given their past behavior.

    SPQR (72771e)

  135. Last time I listened to your favorite talk-radio hosts, they all acknowledged that Hollywood was a component of the MSM, as would be the Pop-music industry as it is an extension of Hollywood, for all practical purposes.

    For all of your concern, I would paraphrase one David Crockett, Congressman from Tennessee:
    You Sir, can go to Hell; I’m going to dinner!

    Another Drew (51839f)

  136. Thanks Dmac, and Another Drew.

    Dmac, I couldn’t agree with you more, it is a stale argument. Stale indeed, yet the right keeps trying to invoke it.

    All your explanations are very clear.

    Clear as milk that is.

    Especially Another Drew’s at #133.

    Interesting

    Oiram (983921)

  137. Peter wrote:

    He is your new president. Show some respect. His accomplishments will speak for themselves, and you, LN, as repellent as I’m sure it must sound right now, will come to respect and admire him. You’ll probably even begrudgingly vote for him in 2012. I’m psychic about these things…

    Look like you’ve gotten a head start on me, and started to respect and admire him before he’s done a single thing. I’m from the old school, Pete — people have to earn my respect.

    But you knew that I would right that, didn’t you?
    (BTW – Congrats on picking the Rays to win the AL Pennant. Enjoy your Lamborghini!)

    L.N. Smithee (0931d2)

  138. If there is anything we have learned over the past 16 years is that the democrats play viciously dirty. They lie. They slander. They manipulate. They break the law. They destroy innocent lives who speak out against them. They poster. They are dishonest. They reward their own demons with committee chairs. They are ignorant. They wrap themselves in false cloaks. They are going to collapse our country from within. The choice is that if you want to win, you have to play like them. Selling one’s soul to become democratic-like is too high of a price to pay. I’ll take my chances in the next world where I am sure I will not bump into a democrat

    Art (fcb0f1)

  139. ……… speaking of unhinged.

    Oiram (983921)

  140. Oiram, just a thought…the MSM is the news reporting section of the “media”…

    All the rest is opinion….

    The problem is that the “MSM” as most people know it has gone into the opinion side of the business, such as Dan Rather’s “reporting” of the Bush ANG papers, and the like….they’ve stop “reporting” and begun to “make” the news, which is really opinion…..

    As a solid listener of Rush, and Neal Boortz, both are not “news” reporters but “opinion” dispensers, and both very often will tell you to go find your own info, and make an opinion as well….I’ve never heard Couric, or Rather, or Scheiffer, or Brokaw, or any of them ever tell a viewer to go find the facts….I have, however, read the “facts” in the NYT or the LAT or the AP, only to learn later they left out the facts that would tell the truth to the story….

    Talk radio is opinion, not news….yes, they play a news cast at the hour/half hour, but, as many of them are ABC or CBS as they would be Fox, and NPR or PBS radio would not be “news” to anyone who actually takes the time to find the “facts”….

    reff (556669)

  141. #139 Thanks Ref, again, please tell that to Rush and company, they did not get the memo on what MSM is according to your description here.

    I have to repeat myself, they routinely include Film and Music as being part of the Main Stream Media, not just news.

    Here’s the weird thing, I agree with them. Only problem I have is when they complain about the Main Stream Media as being too liberal and not throw their medium into the mix.
    They can not count themselves out of the Media equation. Nor should you.

    I spend an hour in traffic to and fro everyday. That’s two hours of radio per day. Believe it or not, I don’t always like who is on Air America or what they have to say. I love listening to opposing points of view, as I do here. I watch maybe 45 minutes of television per day. To me Radio is main stream media.

    Advice To Republicans, get your ducks in a row before you claim fowl (pun intended).

    Oiram (983921)

  142. Believe it or not, I don’t always like who is on Air America or what they have to say.

    Well, that’s a shocka. You can’t even get those nutbags here, mostly because their viewpoints are admirably represented by every local news outlet here in Chicago.

    Dmac (e30284)

  143. “… tell that to Rush and company, they did not get the memo on what MSM is…”

    A classic example that we’ve been dealing with a liar all this time.
    If he actually had listened, at any time of his short, demented life, he would know that the definition that he has been given here – endlessly – is the definition used by Rush, Sean, etc, in delineating themselves from the MSM.

    I am even more convinced that Mario is lovie.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  144. #142 Another Drew,

    Wrong on both counts.

    Please show me Rush’s definition……. if he has one.

    Oh wait I know his definition……. “Liberal”. Of course he hopes that you don’t throw his gang into that mix.

    But Movie’s, Musicians, artists, writers, they all count for you and Rush’s bunch.

    Once again interesting.

    Oiram (983921)

  145. And on that note……….

    My work is done here for today.

    Just remember folks being selective about what you call main stream media could come back to bite you in the proverbial arse.

    Believe it or not, I’m trying to help re-build the Republican party. A healthy opposing view, and I repeat healthy (hopefully the G.O.P. will be soon), is only going to help this country get back on it’s feet.

    Yin and Yang

    Peace Brothers and Sisters.

    Oiram (983921)

  146. Any of you who have Facebook can join my ditch Andrew Sullivan group, here.

    Dan Collins (4dc2da)

  147. Interesting.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Pious Agnostic (b2c3ab)

  148. “My work is done here for today.”

    I’ve successfully threadjacked another post, and have willfully acted obtusely about a subject that’s been endlessly explained and described to me ad nauseum. Every time a post comes up regarding anything remotely associated with media in the US, I promise to come back to this tiresome and arthritic viewpoint, and will not be dissuaded despite clear evidence to the contrary.

    Dmac (e30284)

  149. I no longer intend to engage this troll, or its’ alter ego.
    It is not interested in discussion, only in being a pest.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  150. Dmac,

    You have to admit that the dripping pustule who craps all over every thread here is unfailing courteous in doing so.

    The absolute most important thing in life is courtesy – that’s how you tell the truly good from those nasty “others”.

    Not the intent or content or objective or outcome but by the pleasant manner in which the individual takes so many dumps on your property that no one really cares to enter it.

    Style is what counts – and don’t forget it.

    Rick Ballard (e3e91f)

  151. Oiram also doesn’t understand the stock market. That way he can conveniently dispute the opinions of those with 30 years experience working in or around the markets although he himself has no basis for doing so. He doesn’t understand it, so it must be wrong. Q.E.D.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  152. Listing his areas of knowledge would fill a match-book cover.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  153. Rick – One troll with explosive diarrhea usually gets their job done quickly and is gone. Woth Oiram it is endless hershey squirts.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  154. Yeah, but he’s very nice about doing his job – and very successful. He destroys every thread he posts on and that’s his sole purpose.

    But he’s very nice and never inflammatory. You have to admit he deserves great style points for the manner in which he craps all over this blog. Just like lovewhatever.

    Rick Ballard (e3e91f)

  155. Yeh, if we could give him a medal, I would like to present it SEAL-style.

    Another Drew (51839f)

  156. Easy enough to prevent it in the future, though – lack of acknowledgement in the first place. Same with the other two Trollbots – excommunication.

    Dmac (e30284)

  157. No matter what they say or write
    Palin 2012 is just right.

    Larry Reilly (d11f9a)

  158. Larry – Are you sure you’re on the correct blog?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  159. Well, that’s only fair. You all remember the way the media hounded Obama to produce his college records and birth certificate, don’t you? They had to hold Palin to that same high standard.

    Subotai (9916a8)

  160. Oiram, I would disagree with your portrayal of Rush as MSM, or that he includes movie, etc, as a part of that…I do listen to him daily, and don’t see what you are saying….now, I would agree that Hollywood tries to be a news outlet, with their “documentaries” and the like, but, since they are more opinion than fact, it explains the problem….

    As for the Bush White House, I would completely disagree that they include the other outlets as “media” but do include them as something that must be dealt with, since, for example, there is a percentage of the public that gets their “news” from the Daily Show….

    I think you’re trying to win an argument, rather than see the facts here, but, that’s just an opinion, not news….

    I stand on the thought that the “MSM” is generally accepted as the major news outlets, such as CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, and the major news papers of the country, along with the AP….talk radio may give news every hour, but, their “shows” are opinion driven, not news oriented….

    reff (556669)

  161. reff, Oiram is not trying to win an argument, he’s trying to derail a thread with a quarrel about terms that is completely meaningless.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  162. I know that, but, I’m hoping that some other intelligent sentient being will be affected by the discussion….

    reff (556669)

  163. Howard Kurtz is a liar, coward, and creep in my opinion. He has become the deranged Colonel Kurtz of Apocalypse Now, admiring the lefts’ insane lust for power and their willingness to use the most horrific means to win at any cost. Yes – go ahead and apply unbearable pressure to a pregnant teenage girl, humiliate her and her boyfirend. Perhaps the pressure will cause her to miscarry or to attempt suicide and then Kurtz and his friends can blame Palin.
    Kurtz and the liberals either strongly hint or directly tell us, “Her place was at home – she abandoned and then exposed her child deliberately – how can Palin be trusted after what she has done to her own daughter!”
    We journalists would never do anything bad to a child – just look at how we treated Clinton’s daughter and those of BO. And the sickest thing about creeps like Kurtz is that he believes these total lies.
    How long will it be before he sinks so low that even he realizes what he and his ilk have become and asks for for a B-52 strike on them all as if death would clean away the filth he has left behind? “The horror, the horror.”

    Politicalguano (55f65e)

  164. #111 Dmac

    Funniest thing you’ve written here in awhile, Peter. Pray tell us then, when did your posts show any appreciation or respect for actions that Bush has undertaken over the past year or so?

    Hey, he disowned me as “unamerican” and “unpatriotic” and “an enemy sympathizer” and a “de-facto terrorist”, way before I began to puke on a daily basis at his repellent behavior and mind-boggling incompetence. I more or less gave him a shot to do his thing, after the recount boondoggle and especially after 911, but by mid-2002, it was apparent to anyone with a half a brain the country was dealing with an a #1 assclown.

    Meaning, I gave him way more of a chance than you clowns are willing to give Obama as you continue on with your dire, preposterous, sour grapes prognostications of disaster and Marxist takeover.

    Did you laud his huge monetary aid committment to combat AIDS in Africa?

    I wouldn’t say “laud,” but I did give credit where credit was due regarding that and it’s in the archive here somewhere.


    How about his support for the nascent democracies in Eastern Europe?

    Oh you mean, Poland and the Czech Republic, who desperate to be included in the EU and NATO, become part of the so called, coalition-of-the-willing.

    Nothing like a coalition that needs to remind you that it’s members are there “voluntarily.”

    Peter (e70d1c)

  165. Hey, he disowned me as “unamerican” and “unpatriotic” and “an enemy sympathizer” and a “de-facto terrorist”,

    Any proof of President Bush saying these things, or did you just imagine them?

    JD (94c827)

  166. to anyone with a half a brain the country was dealing with an a #1 assclown.

    Guess I’ll mark that down as another non – responsive answer. Peter’s badly in need of some large doses of lithium, apparently.

    Dmac (e30284)

  167. Oiram – Your repeated attempts to hijack and derail and argue about the commonly accepted definitions of terms is beyond old and tired at this point. You are squandering any goodwill and civility that people had developed for you. Squandering it. Like President Bush. You should be scorned. And mocked.

    JD (94c827)

  168. Why is Michelle still shedding so many tears over who said what when about Governor Palin?

    When did the ferocious pitbull , barracuda, wolf hunter, and caribou gutter become an adorably vulnerable bunny wabbit?

    Like the Rolling Stones sang, “To live in this town you must be tough, tough, tough, tough, TOUGH!”

    Otherwise, go back to Wasilla.

    Shadoobie.

    Hugh Briss (025972)

  169. Sara Palin did deserve the medias spotlight but so did the B.O. and he did not get it. The media in this country has lost all cred with me and I will not pay any attention to their rants or their so called journalism. They are a joke!!!

    Mr Bill :o (aeed8c)

  170. Once again, Peter shows that the “new” foreign policy is to denigrate our allies and praise our enemies.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  171. Mr Bill,

    Barack Hussein Obama did not get the media spotlight he deserved? Are we talk the same BHO?

    **Hard to dialogue with the clinically insane**

    Bill, I suggest you visit your local PCP for a much need referral.

    Da'Shiznit (089453)

  172. Certainly Obama did not receive as much critical scrutiny as would have been appropriate.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  173. Not sure I agree about that either SPQR.

    I will say this with respect to the MSM and BHO — they got off the “bad” BHP stories quickly and labeled any others racist.

    BHO got a pass on really important things like his record on voting, not voting and the double standard with respect to his political friends.

    No Republican would have gotten away with a KKK Preacher, an ex-Abortion Clinic Bomber and the most Conservative Voting Record in the Senate as part of the “story.”

    Never would have made it. Not in a million years would that Senator even exist. A Republican can not be that …. which BHO is.

    The mirror image of BHO is has a hyper-conservative voting record, no bi-partisan accomplishments, prays with KKK and has his political wheels greased by an ABortion Clinic Bomber.

    Just fact.

    Da'Shiznit (089453)

  174. Sounds like you did agree with me, DS.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  175. 80% Agreement SPQR.

    But I do think he got hit a few times and alot more than Palin.

    …. with that stated Palin’s shots were intense and over a shorter period.

    Da'Shiznit (089453)

  176. I love Neil Cavuto … calls a spade a spade and not a partisan.

    Da'Shiznit (089453)

  177. Racists

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  178. Us folks who are paying our mortgages are really fed up with this bail-out thing.

    Frankly, it would be fine by me if prices went down everywhere and unemployment goes up.

    At least when it is all over, we can bring down the overall price levels which help us savers who work for living doing something others need.

    Da'Shiznit (089453)

  179. Racist?

    Da'Shiznit (089453)

  180. Yep, daleyrocks got you on that one.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  181. I denounce all of you knuckle-dragging, misogynistic, mouth breathing, jingoistic, homophobic, meat eating, carbon burning, neanderthal, racist rethuglicans.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  182. daleyrocks, you forgot something.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  183. And Halliburton

    But not Kyoto

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  184. Still forgot something.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  185. SPQR – It’s my denouncement, I’ll do it the way I want to.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  186. I thought adding carbon burning was a nice touch. That was new.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  187. Ah, sarcasm.

    Da'Shiznit (089453)

  188. What sarcasm?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  189. I have a simple rule. If a paper, magazine or broadcast mentioned Hunter Biden more than Bristol Palin then it’s a news source. If it was the other way around it’s not.

    There are not many news sources in America today.

    Ken Hahn (e27b63)

  190. What sarcasm?

    Well, then, you just go and get this, daleyrocks.

    nk (87c95e)

  191. THE SOURCE

    NoodleyAppendage (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-30-08 10:26
    122. What many here don’t understand. It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. RUMOR IS TRUTH.

    The modern laws of media hype and political warfare have a useful tenet:

    Repeat ANYTHING or raise false concern over ANYTHING and it is likely to be planted in the conscious/subconscious of many voters.

    If people start to think that there might be something fishy with Palin’s last kid (if hers), then that’s FINE. One more doubt (whether tied to reality or not) is another hesitation at the ballot box.

    GET WITH THE PROGRAM PEOPLE. The “rising above it” bullshit has served us so well in the past, hasn’t it?

    If you have problems with the story, then STFU and get out of the way of Dems who are engaged in MODERN POLITICAL WARFARE. Go tend your garden or some other pedestrian task, because the “concern trolls” are not helping shape the message.

    DonnaB (8488b4)

  192. The source of course is the lying liars at Kos -
    whom the (ha ha) “journalists” in the leftie media
    jump on for their “talking points”.

    DonnaB (8488b4)

  193. There must be plenty of medical records and obstetricians and medical eye-witnesses prepared to testify to Sarah Palin’s giving birth to Trig. There must be a record of Bristol’s high school attendance for the past year. And surely, surely, the McCain camp did due diligence on this. But the noise around this story is now deafening, and the weirdness of the chronology sufficient to rise to the level of good faith questions. So please give us these answers – and provide medical records for Sarah Palin’s pregnancy – and put this to rest.

    pwc (9cab4a)

  194. There must be plenty of medical records and obstetricians and medical eye-witnesses prepared to testify to Sarah Palin’s giving birth to Trig. There must be a record of Bristol’s high school attendance for the past year. And surely, surely, the McCain camp did due diligence on this. But the noise around this story is now deafening, and the weirdness of the chronology sufficient to rise to the level of good faith questions. So please give us these answers – and provide medical records for Sarah Palin’s pregnancy – and put this to rest.

    But the MSM is uninterested in that sort of information for Hussein Obama!!!

    pwc (9cab4a)

  195. Gosh, there must be plenty of medical records showing that Trig Truthers like this person at #196 have a brain inside of their seemingly empty skulls. I can imagine this person wagging their head back and forth and my hearing pock-pock-pock as what passes for a brain rattles about.

    Or so I hear. Medical records would prove this, one way or another. Why aren’t they available?

    I’ll bet large coin that “pwc” would greatly object to a similar level of “vetting” of President-Elect Obama: drug selling, academic records, a very thorough lung scan (he is a pretty heavy smoker), let alone these…ah…unusual associations.

    What about privacy? goes the refrain.

    What indeed.

    My guess is that “pvc” has more concern with the telephone privacy of potential terrorists than the privacy of medical records for Governor Palin.

    To quote William Shatner: get a life.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  196. People (being charitable here) like pwc have difficulty relating to real people beyond the confines of their monitor screen.
    It is just too scary out there!

    Another Drew (e3760b)

  197. AD, what I object to is the absolute partisan hypocrisy in this area…and the very clear signs of sexism.

    And yet Republicans are the ones with problems with tolerance?

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  198. “But the noise around this story is now deafening”

    pwc – Apparently it’s only deafening within your skull, Andrew Sullivan and a few other demented Trig Truthers with empty brain pans. I suggest window caulk and a caulking gun, available at any neighborhood hardware store. Insert forcefully in your ear, should fill you right up and take away that echoing deafening sound.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  199. To follow up on that metaphor, daleyrocks, I would recommend that “pvc” (I like that better than his original name) use quite a bit of caulk.

    There is a great deal of volume to fill, apparently.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  200. Comment by Eric Blair — 11/16/2008 @ 2:19 pm
    It should also remember to buy a large quantity of duct-tape for sealing those windows, too.

    Another Drew (e3760b)

  201. pvc wants this put to rest. Pvc dear, its all lies made up by the Daily Kos – they have admitted it. Done.

    On the other hand, where is the evidence that Obammie the Commie isn’t still a coke head?

    DonnaB (8488b4)

  202. Sarah who ? She is irrelevant just like the GOP !

    Jean Rich (177f0a)

  203. Thank you for your enlightened commentary, Jean Rich. We are all better for having read your insightful observation.

    pvc is apparently infected with the same malady that has caused Excitable Andy to wax eloquently about this topic, repeatedly.

    JD (b96a9e)

  204. Comment by Jean Rich — 11/17/2008 @ 7:59 am
    If Gov. Palin, and the GOP are so irrelevant, why did Chris Cillizza,
    the WaPo official blogger write this (emphasis added):

    “…five myths about the election:
    (1) the Republican party suffered a death blow,
    (2) a wave of black voters and young people was the key to Obama’s victory,
    (3) the Democrats will now usher in a new “progressive” era,
    (4) a Republican candidate could have won this year, and
    (5) McCain made a huge mistake in selecting Sarah Palin.”

    H/T PowerLineBlog

    I think your argument in with him, not us, since he’s allegedly on “your” side.

    Another Drew (a9bf4b)

  205. If we are irrelevant now, rich Frenchie, why do you even bother commenting?

    JD (b96a9e)


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