Patterico's Pontifications

11/5/2008

It’s the Republicans, Stupid

Filed under: 2008 Election — DRJ @ 12:29 pm

[Guest post by DRJ]

I agree with Steven Den Beste that Obama’s election isn’t the end of the world and that Americans will be disenchanted with how Democrats govern. And FWIW I think Obama will govern from the far left instead of the center.

I also agree with Dr. Helen‘s post entitled “It’s the Economy, Stupid” that this election may have resulted in part from concerns about the economy. I especially agree with this statement:

“But to think that the entire philosophy of individual rights, small government, national security and gun rights is lost on a new generation of voters based on this one election is not only foolish, it shows a degree of cynicism that may not be accurate.”

Ed Morrissey noticed that up to 7 million GOP voters stayed home or switched to Obama and, like Dr. Helen, Morrissey thinks conservatism is the answer and not the problem:

“If the GOP wants to win 60 million votes in future national elections, it has to stand for something other than being Democrat Lite. The Republican Party needs clarity, purpose, and most importantly, an end to the hypocrisy of talking smaller government while porking up their districts. When given only a choice between real Democrats and fake Democrats, Americans will choose the former, which we found out in 2006.”

These opinions are reinforced by a business conversation I had this morning with a college-educated, Western Pennsylvania professional. She told me she was afraid she would lose her job under an Obama Administration but she nevertheless didn’t vote because she knew there was no real difference between Republicans and Democrats, including Bush, McCain and even Obama. As she said, “The Parties have come together and there isn’t much difference between them.”

I hesitate to draw conclusions from one conversation but I have this nagging feeling she’s not alone. Washington DC politics have become talking points that blend together into endless discussion of the need for bipartisanship. No wonder voters think there is no difference in the Parties and that the main difference is the way candidates look and talk.

For many conservatives, McCain’s maverick strain was not a selling point and his pick of Palin was not enough to reassure them. I understand those concerns. Does anyone doubt that, as President, the first thing McCain would have done is pursue a bipartisan agreement with the Democratic-controlled Congress? While that might be a good political tactic, it reinforces the idea that Washington politicians are interchangeable.

Thus, I wonder if part of Obama’s appeal is that voters believe he is more likely to stand for something, even if they don’t know exactly what it is.

Today’s politicians avoid the label of Washington insiders to distance themselves from Beltway politics but along the way conservatives have forgotten why they need to be different. McCain was a maverick but that’s not the kind of difference conservatives want. We want politicians whose values are different than the Stepford politicians of Washington DC and in tune with Dr. Helen’s “philosophy of individual rights, small government, national security and gun rights.”

If we can find conservative candidates who stand for something, I think many of those 7 million voters will come back.

– DRJ

380 Responses to “It’s the Republicans, Stupid”

  1. If we can find conservative candidates who stand for something, I think many of those 7 million voters will come back.

    My hopes for 2012 lie in conservative types like Fred Thompson or Bobby Jindal. Both represent the exact sentiments of your statement, and either would be fine in my book. I hope Fred is still full of vigor in 4 years to run again. I just hope he learned his lesson and announces EARLIER!

    EC (ac8463)

  2. Well Put DRJ.

    Another issue is convincing people like me and non party Americans that businesses will take care of employees and customers without government intervention.

    I’m all for the trickle down theory. I get it. But unfortunately I expect man kinds greed to get in the way of that theory.

    Convince me that Big Business could walk the talk and you’ll do better in ’12.

    Friendly Advice

    Oiram (983921)

  3. Part of me is relieved that we won’t have John McCain to kick around anymore, the other part is very apprehensive about the Left-leaning inclinations of the incoming administration.
    It is now time to start re-establishing the basics of the GOP Brand, and that calls for new leadership on The Hill, in both Houses of Congress.
    After loosing their shirts in two consecutive Congressional elections, this leadership group must go: Minority Leaders, Whips, Caucus Chrmn, Election Campaign Chrmn. All of them. They Failed. It is time to go.
    Once that reality is acknowledged, they can get back to putting forth the basic beliefs of a Small Government/Low Tax/Minimal Spending political party, a party dedicated to the proposition that individuals can succeed through hard work without the heavy hand of government “helping” them.
    Let the Games begin.

    Another Drew (579482)

  4. Comment by Oiram — 11/5/2008 @ 12:50 pm

    You need to realize that the Democrat Party is the party of Wall Street & Big Business.
    The GOP is the party of Main Street.
    Up is Down, Black is White, Good is Bad, The Democrats are not the party of the working man, they are the party of the working man’s union bosses – unions that have less than 10% membership of the private-sector workforce.

    Another Drew (579482)

  5. Interesting note:

    The DOW just set the record with the worst post election day.

    Not a great note for the President elect.

    ML (14488c)

  6. Just because people vote for you doesn’t mean that they agree with our overall philosophy. Swing voters voted for Obama because they don’t like Bush and because they like a black, younger candidate.

    Amphipolis (fdbc48)

  7. But Obama isn’t president until January 20, so it’s not his fault!

    (/sarcasm off)

    Official Internet Data Office (df6254)

  8. Comment by ML — 11/5/2008 @ 1:03 pm

    As I posted on another thread, the DOW opened @ 11,713 on the day after BHO’s acceptance speech at the Convention (8/29).
    Today it closed @ 9282.
    Down ….2,431!

    Around and Around it goes, where it stops, nobody knows!

    Another Drew (579482)

  9. #4 Sure Drew a lot of the Democrat party is aligned with Wall Street and Big Business, but not as much as The Republicans. Could be a matter of our perspectives too I guess.

    I’m not going to get into an argument with you over the need for unions.

    If you truly believe your comment, your task as Republicans is to convince Americans of that.

    Again Friendly advice from a Dem who recognizes the need for conservatism.

    Oiram (983921)

  10. #8 Why do you suppose it went down? (just curious)

    Oiram (983921)

  11. AD – Mike Pence. Jeff Blake. John Kasich.

    JD (5b4781)

  12. Sure Drew a lot of the Democrat party is aligned with Wall Street and Big Business, but not as much as The Republicans.

    It should be easy to demonstrate where Wall Street gave their money and who they were supporting.

    JD (5b4781)

  13. #12 Looks like your alluding to it being the Democrats right JD?

    Oiram (983921)

  14. Yes, RINO Juan McCain loves to snub his own party and reach across the aisle. Is there any doubt he would have worked assiduously with liberals to push for amenesty for illegal aliens? Gotta love how working together in a bipartisan fashion means the Republicans give libs what libs want. When has Obama ever compromised? And I was also wondering just what is his experience? At campaigning?

    I keep telling acquaintances that Congress appropriates money and passes out the pork. So when the economy and government in general stumbles, who you gonna blame, a Pres. McCain or Pelosi/Reid? Obama as potus or/and Reid/Pelosi OR ex-potus Bush? Seems that kissing liberal asses didn’t do much for W.

    Will the media stick with Obama? Will the public who voted for more socialism give the Congress higher approval ratings? Just what will Obama initially push for in the first 100 days or so? Will any criticism of Obama be deemed racist? Will the GOP fold on judicial appointments or will the Senate give dems a pass in interest of collegiality and idea that Obama should be able to pick whomever he pleases? Doesn’t seem to be any GOP creeps like Kennedy or Biden who would bork far left judicial picks.

    When will we get some $$$ handouts/goodies as rewards for the Messiah’s ascension? What will Obama do when Iran makes its moves against the Jews?

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  15. The #1 recipient of campaign money from Goldman Sachs in 2008, out of all US politicians, was

    1. Obama, Barack (D-IL) $691,930

    Official Internet Data Office (df6254)

  16. So he took hundreds of thousands of dollars from a company that was going out of business, leaving investors to hold the bag. Leadership you can count on, to write a letter.

    JD (5b4781)

  17. DRJ–

    In short, the Republicans need to stand FOR something, not just against Democrat ideas. What is important to us?

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  18. #15 and #16 so if true, why the downturn in the market today?

    Oiram (983921)

  19. Republicans lost the election to voters under 40. All this demographic has ever known is the Age of Reagan, and they are bored with it. They do not remember the Age of Johnson, (Nixon) and Carter – so we are all condemned to repeat it.

    Mahon (17f196)

  20. The stock market looks ahead–as millions of financial pundits have said since the beginning of time.

    Official Internet Data Office (df6254)

  21. Oiram – Have you actually worked for a large corporatio or spent time talking to its leader to learn what they think? It sounds like you are merely mindlessly echoing talikg points made by your professors instead of actually thinking for yourself. Sad, but it’s what you do here.

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  22. why the downturn in the market today?

    Obama, President elect.

    ML (14488c)

  23. Obama is not far left.

    If he were far left, he’d be putting into place an end to all wars that we are currently in. As to date, he has not said that the US will pull out of Afghanistan. He believes in fighting there so that we can erradicate Al-Qaeda. A far leftist would not support the US performing missions in Pakistan to find Al-Qaeda. And I believe far leftists would prefer that we stop funding for war in Iraq today and pull out of Iraq today.

    He would also have never agreed to off-shore drilling. I believe far leftists do not believe in drilling for oil at all, let alone close to our shores.

    He also would not have provided an energy policy that includes the use of nuclear power, which by the way France gets 80% of their energy from. Far leftists are completely opposed to nuclear energy, something that I do not agree with.

    If Obama were far left, he wouldn’t have managed to turn a record number of states that were mostly always red, blue. How could a far leftist appeal to conservatives? Also, if Obama is far left, then so is the majority of America, and I don’t believe that to be true.

    Republicans call Obama a socialist because he got rid of the Bush tax cuts for rich people, and gave extra tax cuts to the middle class. But, nothing indicates that Obama would Nationalize any US businesses. It was actually the Bush Presidency (Republican ideology) who Nationalized all US Banks, not the democrats or Obama. If there are any socialists that we should stay away from, it is McCain-Bush and Republicans.

    Obama is Center-left, not far left. Obama is a progressive who will govern from the center.

    1) He will abandon Reaganomics. These policies never worked for the majority of US Citizens, they only worked for the top 10% of the nation. “Various sociological statistics suggest the severity of wealth inequality ‘with the top 10% possessing 80% of all financial assets [and] the bottom 90% holding only 20% of all financial wealth.’” The trickle down theory failed to prevent the Wall Street crises that has now spread to Main Street.

    2) He has used his community organizing skills to reach out to voters and obtain nearly ten million more votes than McCain. The republicans could take a page out of Obama’s book. If republicans want the community to work for them, then they must offer the community something in return, hence review comment #1.

    3) He will approach America’s problems from the center, considering both liberal and conservative ideals, but will mostly lean left on issues concerning the Supreme Court. He will help these UNITED (not individual) States of America progress. Alaska has not succeeded from the US yet, although I’m sure Palin would’ve preferred that.

    Nonetheless, if you are disappointed with this election turn out then maybe you should push for election reform, making it easier for more Americans to vote. Since the 63 million Americans who you call far leftist do not go your way, then you should use Obama’s community organizing skills to push Congress to mandate national elections with only one type of paper ballot to be held over a weekend or over a holiday. This will prompt more people to come out and vote. Then, maybe the non-far leftists who in your opinion seem to equal 190 million Americans minus 63 million Americans will elect your perfect Republican presidential candidate next time. Yeah, keep dreaming!

    Da Bombz Diggity (6cc032)

  24. #21 No Daley I have not worked for a large corporation or spent time talking to it’s leaders.

    But it just seems strange to me here that it’s easy to make the case that Democrats represent big business and then in the same breath claim that the market is down today because of Obama.
    That is thinking for myself.

    Democratic talking points have not gotten to me on that issue (too fresh).

    See it seems to me that people here are already beginning to blame Democrats for anything that goes wrong. Politics I guess. We’ve done the same.

    See Daley, it bothered me a while back when everyone here was crediting Bush’s offshore drilling plans to the price of gas going down even though we now know that it was and still is lower gas demand dating back to January ’08.

    I need to make sure hypocrisy is kept in check.

    Oiram (983921)

  25. #22 So ML you must disagree with Another Drew’s comment #4? One would assume.

    Oiram (983921)

  26. It is the end of the world. The Democrats will legalize 15-20 million existing illegal aliens and they will import another 10 million more – all entitled to vote multiple times and instilled with grievances against “the man” and expectations of handouts from the government. The Democrats will control the congressional redistricting based on the 2010 census and they will make it even more difficult for Republicans to win.

    America – great while it lasted.

    How ironic that we may have to look to China to save capitalism.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  27. #26 Perfect Sense please leave your 976 bogus psychic hotline number.

    Oiram (983921)

  28. “I need to make sure hypocrisy is kept in check.”

    Oiram – A good idea for your comments. Standard leftist dogma is corporations are bad. You know that, I know that. No need to wait.

    So lower energy prices with impending future supply due to Bush’s actions, yeah I can see the left’s talking point avoiding giving him credit since they weren’t writing talking points. Their Congressional leaders went home for the summer.

    Try again sport.

    Why do you make up things about the behavior of people you know nothing about? The classic progressive straw man.

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  29. Da Bombz – Are you still trying to figure out who Trig’s father is?

    I think it was Billy Jeff Bentpecker ridin’ dirty again. How about you?

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  30. I don’t want to inject my opinion into a thread discussing what Republicans stand for, because that’s not something a good liberal should be doing.

    But, at the risk of thread-jacking, I do have a perhaps somewhat on-topic question: my husband is looking for books – thoughtful, reasoned writings about political and economic philosophy, rather than pop politics stuff – that will explain to him the conservative worldview. Having grown up in the bay area, he doesn’t feel like he’s been exposed to it in anything other than a derisory secondhand way.

    Can any of you guys recommend anything for him?

    aphrael (9e8ccd)

  31. Along with a candidate that lacked the “gut-fire” it is apparent to me that we need an entirely new crop of Republican “strategists” and “consultants”.

    McCain’s campaign was always two steps behind on issues and answers. For example: who was the f****ing moron that put Sarah on the MSM- why not a first “tryout” on FOX?

    Why didn’t McCain use Letterman to show his painful range of motion resulting from his war injuries. Being unable to use a computer made him sound illiterate.

    There’s lots more, but you get the point.

    John425 (eae6ea)

  32. his pick of Palin was not enough to reassure them

    That’s gotta be the understatement of the day.

    She scares most Americans.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  33. #30
    “Free to Choose” – Milton Friedman
    “Animal Farm” – George Orwell

    Both old books, and not exactly conservative oriented, but provide a useful perspective about today’s world.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  34. The Republicans have two problems right now:

    *They have the policies of Democrats
    *George Will

    The first is easy to explain. The Republicans have shifted leftward ever since HW was elected. I submit that John McCain’s policies probably have more in common with Bill Clinton than Ronald Reagan. I still think he (McCain) is an American hero and I wanted him to win but he was no great _conservative_ leader. Heck, the guy I wanted (Mitt Romney) wasn’t even a great _conservative_ leader. Republicans need to become _conservative_ again as opposed to Democrats of 20 years ago.

    The second part, George Will, is less obvious but it’s something that bothers me to no end. Look, George Will the person is not the problem, I like his books about baseball very much. It’s just the mental image that occurs when you hear his name: older white guy with glasses who can pull off wearing a bow-tie speaking “Washingtonian” and breath that smells like newspaper ink. It’s _that_ image and _those_ ideas and _that_ insider DC crap that’s totally off-putting. Those “George Will” people who run our party have become too comfy, too old, too entrenched and to me, it’s a big part of why conservatives lost.

    Obama didn’t just offer politics. I would say that’s maybe one of the last thing he offered. What Obama offered was identity and the ability for people to identify and _belong_ to something. It really is/was a _movement_. People belonged and connected through their “mybarackobama” pages. The current Republican brand has neither the media savvy nor the base-enthusiasm to successfully pull off a similar endeavor.

    But Republicans do have people who could be central to that movement. They just have to pull their collective heads out their asses and get to work.

    Or _we_ have to do it our damn selves.

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  35. #28 Yeah it’s a great try sport.

    You mean you really believe that $3.79 gas prices here in California had less of an effect on demand than Bush’s offshore drilling plan?

    Oiram (983921)

  36. I think Obama will govern from the far left instead of the center.

    To conclude being a “community organizer” portends a Robin Hood socialist is hasty. He’ll wind up disappointing the entire ideological spectrum.

    Hopefully.

    steve (805549)

  37. #35 I can’t believe you still believe that dribble. It amazes me in fact.

    Every time I tried to blame Bush for gas prices going up back in ’02 all I ever heard was supply and demand, “Supply and Demand”. I finally bought into it. So supply goes way down long before Bush’s offshore plan, gas prices go down and now I’m supposed to believe it’s because of Bush Magic?

    Oiram (983921)

  38. Daleyrocks,

    If my candidate lost miserably, and if I realized that my selfish interests would be unrealized or that 63 million Americans just called into question my brainwashed-by-conservative-ideology mentality, I’d probably resort to baseless retorts and corny jokes too. On second thought, no I wouldn’t. That’s your preference.

    Da Bombz Diggity (6cc032)

  39. Da Bombz Diggity sd
    “He has used his community organizing skills to reach out to voters and obtain nearly ten million more votes than McCain. The republicans could take a page out of Obama’s book. If republicans want the community to work for them, then they must offer the community something in return”

    Here is the prime example of an Obama supporter who will be raising hell outside the WH in three years because Obama didn’t spread his pixie dust in his direction, so enjoy your ride, idiots, Obama has never used his “community organizing” skills for anything except the furtherment of his own ambition. He quit!

    Have you seen the district he represented for 8 years in Illinois? It is a worse hellhole now that when Obama was selected by the Chicago machine to represent it. The only people better off are the slumlords, like Rezko, and his radical leftist groups to whom he funneled other people’s money.

    The urban and minority “communities” have been electing Democrats to represent them for over 40 years and have been rewarded with policies which have created the most violent, destitute regions in an America which has enjoyed an unimagined level of prosperity during those 40 years. And you idiots, blame conservatives and Republicans who never were your representatives. Instead of repeated electing Democrats who have lining their own pockets and kept more and more of these people destitute and dependent, you should have tried some conservative policies and you would not still be living in 3rd-world squalor, awaiting rescue from an inexperienced con-man like the “Chicago Dope”.

    LogicalSC (742bd0)

  40. Oiram wrote:

    Every time I tried to blame Bush for gas prices going up back in ‘02 all I ever heard was supply and demand, “Supply and Demand”. I finally bought into it. So supply goes way down long before Bush’s offshore plan, gas prices go down and now I’m supposed to believe it’s because of Bush Magic?

    No, you’re supposed to believe that the futures markets operate based on estimations of supply and demand. When the US looks to be serious about offshore drilling, the market reacts to news that more supply will be coming available.

    Similarly, the markets dropped today because investors on balance believe that Obamanomics will not be good for business. That limosine liberals on Wall St. supported Obama financially has little to do with what the millions of investors across the US judge to be the case.

    Karl (f07e38)

  41. DaBombzDiggity is a mental midget. It proves it every time it comes by.

    . If republicans want the community to work for them, then they must offer the community something in return,

    Buying votes …

    considering both liberal and conservative ideals,

    You trolls state this as a fact, yet there is no evidence whatsoever that he has ever done so. Hell, there is no evidence that he has ever even led on an issue, much less considered other sides to an issue.

    JD (008a90)

  42. Aphrael – The Conservative Mind, by Russell Kirk

    JD (008a90)

  43. #40 Yes, you look at futures as in supply going down in January in ’08 and prices going down in June ’08.

    Oiram (983921)

  44. #43 correction.

    #40 Yes, you look at futures as in DEMAND going down in January in ‘08 and prices going down in June ‘08.

    Oiram (983921)

  45. Steve:

    To conclude being a “community organizer” portends a Robin Hood socialist is hasty.

    Perhaps, but to conclude running twice as a candidate endorsed by an openly socialist party, lamenting that the Warren Court failed to enact “economic justice” and promising to “spread the wealth around” does not portend a would-be Robin Hood with socialist tendencies is a bit thick.

    Maybe Obama’s record as President will be antithetical to everything he’s said or done as a politician thus far. Maybe, but not likely.

    Xrlq (62cad4)

  46. I think the most important move is to jettison the aging and backwarks looking leadership in the House and Senate.

    Boehner is not a bad guy, but the leaders of the GOP Conference are the future, and they are better “Faces” of a loyal opposition. Boehmer reminds me too much of Bob Michel. We need this sessions “Newt” to emerge from the shadows, whether its Pence, Shadegg, or Cantor.

    In the Senate, while I’m glad McConnell held on to win, and I appreciate his legislative skill in running a loyal opposition in the Senate, he’s exactly the type of pork-happy Senator that prevents the GOP from having a consistent and believeable message on matters of fiscal responsibility. I’d rather see John Kyl take over.

    Good riddance to do nothings like Elizabeth Dole. She laid a good part of the foundation for yesterday with her pathetic performance as RSCC two years ago, which led to poor fundraising and poor candidate recruiting both last election and this election. John Ensign in Nevada did pretty damn good with the bad hand she left him to play.

    The GOP needs to make the face of the US Senate be the likes of Reid, Byrd, Inouye, Boxer, Schumer, Durbin, Levin, etc. Those are all old and/or unlikeable figures.

    WLS (26b1e5)

  47. She scares most Americans.

    Nah, just the ones who’re scared of assertive women – you know, the ones who not only can takedown powerful men on their own terms, but also takedown dinner later in the day.

    IOW, wussies don’t like her.

    Dmac (e30284)

  48. #40 By the way Karl thank you for telling me what I’m “SUPPOSED” to believe.

    It makes sense that you would phrase it that way.

    Oiram (983921)

  49. I sat this election out. I agree that it is pointless to vote for Democrat Lite over Democrat Complete. While I would feel safer with McCain as Commander in Chief I would not feel secure knowing that he would protect my rights as a citizen. I sent some money to a few senate and representative races, and to a couple third party places that were running ads that included either Wright or the truth about the financial crisis. These things help everyone pick the right senators and congresscritters, but as for president, I can never trust McCain.

    Democrats now have the both the Engine Room and the Bridge and where they steer this nation is 100% in their hands now, and when the American people start seeing the rocks ahead, maybe then they will decide to put a new captain in the Bridge and perhaps do some engine work to ensure that the nation has the strength to turn away from danger and toward prosperity.

    A Stoner (4c5fb7)

  50. LogicalSC, you couldn’t be more wrong! It’s not as simple as “He quit!”

    I believe that Obama’s community organizing experiences are important in shaping Obama’s ideas for how problems might be solved. I don’t think that Obama believes that community organizing is the ONLY SOLUTION to all of America’s problems. Obama’s role in the USA is greater than being a community organizer, not that we don’t need community organizers. But, Obama can and will use those community organizing skills and experiences to redefine governance in America.

    “But Obama grew restless and eventually went to Harvard Law School. “He said you can only go so far in organizing. You help people get some solutions, but it’s never as big as wiping away problems,” says Michael Evans, a DCP organizer after Obama left. “It wasn’t end-all. He wanted to be part of the end-all, to get things done.” But Obama kept his ties to DCP and worked out of its office when he ran a drive that registered 150,000 new voters in 1992 and became the springboard for his own grassroots campaign for Illinois State Senate.” … Now the Rev. Alvin Love, whom Obama recruited to DCP, looks at his candidacy and says, “Everything I see reflects that community organizing experience. I see the consensus-building, his connection to people and listening to their needs and trying to find common ground. I think at his heart Barack is a community organizer. I think what he’s doing now is that. It’s just a larger community to be organized.”

    If the 13th district which Obama represented in Illinois was so desolate under Obama, why did he win reelection two extra times in ’98 and ’02?

    It’s odd that you would claim that people living in Obama’s district would choose 3rd world squalor over economic security. It seems to me that only those who would choose to elect McCain after Bush’s failed Presidency, and bankrupting of America would enjoy 3rd world squalor, not those who want change.

    Da Bombz Diggity (6cc032)

  51. I have a question. Obviously we need a firm Republican ‘Identity’ in Washington once again and one way we can do that is by voting for our representative’s and writing them on issues for which I do both. But I also believe that it begins with the individual as well. How can I as an individual Republican become active in helping to solidify a firm Republican identity for the future of our party? Where can I find a movement to help with that? Where is it that we as a party come together and decide and say ‘This is what we stand for’, how do we accomplish our goals? Where is our ‘town hall’?

    And I’m not talking about contributions to the RNC that I may never know what they do with it. I don’t have a problem with contributing to the RNC in general, I am just wanting to know how I can help our party going forward on a more substantial and personal level?

    These may seem like niave questions. Maybe that in and of itself makes a statement to our lack of unity. I can do a web search and find all different kinds of Republican sites but from my point of view its like there is no cohesion to it to help us unite and that really bothers me.

    Hopefully I’m wrong on this and there is a main website or something and if so please let me know as I don’t want to wait until the next election season to act.

    We can talk about uniting all we want but want I want to know is the how.

    I am not happy about President Elect Obama being elected but the one thing I do respect him for is his ability to inspire. If nothing else good comes out of this then let us be inspired by President Elect Obama to unite as a party and communicate to the people as a party like we have never done before. And if we don’t have the means in place to do that at this time then we need to find the means. I’m raising my hand. I’m here/present. Where do I/we start?

    A Californian (485ef9)

  52. It stuns me that ANYONE would say that there is no difference between the political parties.

    It stuns me that ANYONE could point to the Reps and call them the party of individual freedom (HA!), smaller government (HA!) and fiscal restraint — the biggest laugh of all. Funny how rank-and-file Reps NEVER notice that every Democratic regime since Kennedy has reduced the deficit or balanced the budget (Clinton and Kennedy) while every Republican administration has without fail created deficits more vast than anything seen in history.

    It also stuns me that ANYONE would point to the Dems as crooks and liars, and the Reps as knight in shining armor.

    Clearly, the “currently in charge” Republicans are the party of cynicism, name-calling, and emotional terrorism. Look at how McCain — an actual “patriotic American” — turned into a sniveling, mud slinging golem trying to woo the Rep base.

    If during his campaign McC had come across like he did in his concession speech last night, the results might have been completely different. But flaming the other guy, as as been the complete Rep Presidential strategy for decades now, can only go so far when you screwed us as badly as the neocons have done.

    If you guys don’t look in the mirror and see yourselves for the ditto-head patsies of the Rep elites that you are, well… you’ve got no one to blame but yourselves.

    JMan (d9bd47)

  53. Actually, IT STUNS US WHEN TROLLS COME ON TO DO DRIVE – BYS, AND CANNOT EVEN PROVIDE THE FLIMSIEST EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THEIR SCREECHING! AND DON’T FORGET, YOU ALWAYS MAKE YOUR POINTS MORE EFFECTIVE BY HIGHLIGHTING THEM IN ALL – CAPS AND BOLD!

    Dmac (e30284)

  54. Anyone who’s as continually “stunned” as you are has obviously had more experience being on the wrong end of a Tazer gun than is considered healthy for one’s sanity.

    Dmac (e30284)

  55. Dmac, it’s OK, they’re just on autopilot.

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  56. DaBombzDiggity is a mental midget. It proves it every time it comes by.

    . If republicans want the community to work for them, then they must offer the community something in return,

    Buying votes …

    considering both liberal and conservative ideals,

    You trolls state this as a fact, yet there is no evidence whatsoever that he has ever done so. Hell, there is no evidence that he has ever even led on an issue, much less considered other sides to an issue.

    Comment by JD — 11/5/2008 @ 2:24 pm

    If you thought that I would prefer an exchange of cash for my vote, then you’re the mental midget. Should Americans have no say in who governs them? Should America not vote for politicians who will support their interests? Let me break it down to you as if you were a 5 year old. The “something in return” that I referred to was not any amount of cash. The “something in return” refers to policies that are in the interests of those citizens living in the community in which republicans may want to visit, campaign, and/or community organize. Do you understand now?

    Da Bombz Diggity (6cc032)

  57. GWB destroyed the GOP Brand with:
    1) Bailout of Big Corporations (cause they got too big to fail)
    2) Big give away (Stimulus Package)
    3) Big Government (Medicare-D).
    4) Immigration Reform/Amnesty.
    5) Anti-science, Intelligent Design and Creationism make the GOP look like the party of nut-jobs.

    And the GOP Congress went right along and lost all their credibility in the process.

    The GOP needs to get to the following:
    1) Smaller Government
    2) Lower Taxes
    3) Free competition (Not Monopolies and Corporate Bailouts/Welfare)
    4) Focus on Freedom not Religious “values”. No one wants the Government in their doctor’s office, their bedroom, their Gun case or their death bed! Your values and My values are different! keep them to yourself and don’t try to run my life!

    Of course, I am not sure when the GOP will get another chance to prove they have put GWB behind them.

    OregonGuy (0283e2)

  58. @30 Atlas Shrugged – Ayn Rand

    John Galt (2f1026)

  59. Fear. Isn’t it interesting that what fear does to an individual or a collective that held power so long and, for a fleeting moment appears to be rested from their hands. As a black man raised in this country, and one who voted for McCain, I am disgusted at the response that we need to fear a “black man” now in the Oval Office. You people disgust me. It’s the same white elitism and segregation-like talk I’ve heard all my 45 years. Perhaps it’s some of your buddies who will be sitting waiting for the perfect opportunity to take the man out so that, again, you can see the white person in office again.

    As for me, I still don’t agree with his major positions. I am fiscally conservative and believe every American deserves as much as the effort he puts into his/her work. I will always believe that.

    This conversation and fear/scare tactics it’s spewing stinks. I will continue to honor my conservative nature as an independent.

    A Wisconsinite (1c25ec)

  60. They are afraid of the man who was right about not going to war in Iraq? That is very backward-thinking. For eight years they were not afraid of what Bush called an administration but was in actuality a disgrace. But if you are that afraid, as the children say, “Bounce!”

    Redphilly (4a66dd)

  61. GWB destroyed the GOP Brand with:
    1) Bailout of Big Corporations (cause they got too big to fail)
    2) Big give away (Stimulus Package)
    3) Big Government (Medicare-D).
    4) Immigration Reform/Amnesty.
    5) Anti-science, Intelligent Design and Creationism make the GOP look like the party of nut-jobs.

    And the GOP Congress went right along and lost all their credibility in the process.

    The GOP needs to get to the following:
    1) Smaller Government
    2) Lower Taxes
    3) Free competition (Not Monopolies and Corporate Bailouts/Welfare)
    4) Focus on Freedom not Religious “values”. No one wants the Government in their doctor’s office, their bedroom, their Gun case or their death bed! Your values and My values are different! keep them to yourself and don’t try to run my life!

    Of course, I am not sure when the GOP will get another chance to prove they have put GWB behind them.

    Comment by OregonGuy — 11/5/2008 @ 3:13 pm

    OregonGuy, I agree with your opinion, but the question is, can republicans, who don’t necessarily support conservative ideals, only the failed ideals which lead to failed policies of Bush obtain those latter four points? I think the more pragmatic approach to government by Obama coming from a Center Progressive view can help Repubs realize and eventually accomplish conservative ideals. But, ideology first, and commonsense last has obviously not worked.

    Da Bombz Diggity (6cc032)

  62. I don’t think that the Christian Right would get behind my opinion. Unfortunately, the Christian Right runs the party and they are going to continue to get pounded by Dems.

    OregonGuy (0283e2)

  63. 59 is a Moby.

    Da bomb – are you really so ill informed that you do not know anything about the district Barack represented in IL?

    JD (5f0e11)

  64. Da Bombz Diggity sd:
    “If the 13th district which Obama represented in Illinois was so desolate under Obama, why did he win reelection two extra times in ‘98 and ‘02?”

    You tell me. You make my point for me, New Orleans, Chicago, Washington DC, Los Angeles, are all cities which have been under control of liberals and Democrats for decades and they all rank among the worst areas for crime and poverty in the entire country. So you explain which of the Golden Liberals policies you so love have been he boon which you and your communities so obviously revote for every election.

    The details of the projects which Rezko got millions from Obama to rehab but never completed are an open known fact from his trial. The Chicago murder rate for just this year is 3 times as large as death rates in Baghdad. Obama himself wasted 155 million dollars of other people’s money meant to help the education of Chicago’s children on Ayer’s plan to teach social justice instead of math, science & finance. William Jefferson of New Orleans was found with 90K dollars in bribes in his refrigerator and he won re-election after the Hurricane even though he used rescue equipment save his personal belonging.

    So now Obama is going to extend the same actions to the nation and I fully expect the same results, as would any rational person, but as has been proven by history I expect the very same liberals\leftists to support Obama regardless of how disastrous his policies are for the country\themselves just like you have liberals disasters for decades.

    So like I said keep buying the “line” about those evil conservatives and keep waiting for Liberals and government to come save you, you will get nowhere, its been 30 years, where is the liberal minority\urban utopia you can use as an example of what Obama has in store?

    LogicalSC (742bd0)

  65. The idea that McCain was a Christian Right candidate is laughable.

    JD (5f0e11)

  66. Stop crying, Repubs, you’ve earned the 8 year break. Look where we are now as compared to 8 years ago. Worse in every way but one- We’re smarter in electing our officials. Admit it. Deal with it. I know it hurts, but get over it! The way the majority of Republicans are handling this “loss” is the same reason McCain got crushed. If you really and truly think it’s that bad then leave the country, go on vacation, take a deep breath. Otherwise, give it a chance. The days of the recent past are now over…

    Rescue3 (f0caa1)

  67. Personally, I think it is cute when Leftists presume to tell conservatives how to think, or to formulate strategy. Presumptuous little shits.

    JD (5f0e11)

  68. Welcome to socialized America. I made a list of
    predictions, too lenghty for here, with a time line. I really hope I’m wrong, but when it comes
    to the politics of the far left? We will see Iran
    running the middle east, the extinction of Israel,
    the gross national debt double of what is now, the final distruction of the middle class, and a
    “fixed” social security system that everyone gets
    the same amount of money, starting at age 65.We will have socialized health care(see Canada, England,Germany)We will be hit at least once by
    Al Qaeda, shock to arab friendly white house, John wants me to embrace the other party, I think not, I have gotten really good at “I TOLD YOU SO”, too bad alot of what will happen to us, can’t be fixed….

    terry abel (b93c91)

  69. I fucking hate idiotic trolls.

    JD (5f0e11)

  70. Yes DRJ. It is the Republicans! It’s time for deep soul-searching and a lot less of name-calling and blame-sharing. The GOP lost largely because they seem to know everything wrong with others. Not what is wrong with them. But this defeat is that slap on the face that they needed-to wake up and smell the coffee.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  71. JD,

    I completely agree that McCain was not Christian Right and the “Base” never liked him. It wasn’t until he got Palin on the ticket did the GOP really embrace him. Palin got the base motivated and she sent all of the Independents and the Moderates to Obama.

    The problem is simple. If you aren’t a Christian Right Candidate, you can’t get the support. If you are a Christian Right candidate, you won’t win.

    The Huckabee/Palin ticket is going to get stomped harder than McCain/Palin.

    OregonGuy (0283e2)

  72. Ahh yes the potty language is coming out of JD’s keyboard (happens when he is cornered by conundrums of his own making).

    Cheer Up Bukaroo there’s always 2016 :)

    Oiram (983921)

  73. JD, that’s exactly why I have declined to do so and instead attempted to hijack the thread! :)

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  74. The Silver Lining in this is very simple. Many of us were not thrilled with John McCain for many reasons. A President McCain with a strong Dem majority would have caved on many issues making it difficult to attack Dems. Amnesty was such an issue. Most Americans opposed Amnesty but unless they followed politics as close as we do they would not know who opposed. The faces of amnesty were McCain and Bush but the strong opposition was from the Right Wing of the House.

    With Obama and a Dem Majority its clearer who will take the blame. The GOP should not use the filibuster for a while.Let them move far left quickly. Using a filibuster will force them center. Allow them to act like radical leftists simply vote against them.

    Dennis D (ae900a)

  75. from cnnmoney.com (concerning the dow)

    Latin American stocks dropped Wednesday, tracking sharp declines on Wall Street in the wake of dreary U.S. economic data.

    Brazil’s Bovespa fell 4.9% to 38,256.73. Argentina’s Merval fell 1.5% and Chile’s IPSA lost 1.2%.

    Mexico’s IPC dropped 3.1% to 20,865.10 as the government addressed the plane- crash deaths of two close advisers to President Felipe Calderon late Tuesday.

    Regional indexes jumped a day ago after weakness in the U.S. dollar supported gains in dollar-dominated commodities.

    On Wall Street, the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJI) fell as much as 300 points, with losses fronted by Boeing Co. (BA). The S&P 500 Index (SPX) fell 29 points, or 2.9%, to 976.55.

    Tuesday’s election of Democrat Barack Obama as the next U.S. president removed one element of uncertainty from the markets.

    But U.S. stocks weren’t able to stage “their usual post-election day rally (as they did in 2000), as there are pressing issues at hand,” said Jennifer Lee, economist at BMO Capital Markets in a note Wednesday.

    The post-election markets were greeted by a report from ADP that its index of private employment showed companies lost 157,000 jobs in October, indicating further economic weakness because of the ongoing housing market recession, the credit crisis and rocky conditions in the markets.

    The report arrives ahead of October job figures from the U.S. Labor Department on Friday. Economists currently expect job losses of 210,000.

    Meanwhile, the Institute for Supply Management said the services sector contracted sharply in October. The nonmanufacturing index fell 44.4% from 50.2% in September.

    “And since this covers 90% of the U.S. economy, that is clearly bad news,” Lee said.

    Poor economic data reinforced fears that business and consumers will curb demand for exports from Latin America.

    does this help?

    nov. 5 dow drop (c0060a)

  76. Um, y’all lost, because you’re out of touch.

    Carter, remember, won the south and lots of the east, not the west–not any of the west–and not Michigan or Illinois. He didn’t even get Vermont!

    You’re not getting this back in 2012. Definitely not by running anyone currently in your party.

    Gary (68737e)

  77. Terry,

    @68

    I don’t have a good outlook about the Single Party rule for the next 2-8 years. But the reality is that the GOP needs to quit blaming everything on the Dems and change for the better!

    OregonGuy (0283e2)

  78. and she sent all of the Independents and the Moderates to Obama.

    This is not supported by any evidence.

    The Huckabee/Palin ticket

    You are kidding, right. That will never happen. Never.

    Mario – I was not referring to you. I was referring to the Moby who claimed to have voted for McCain, while calling people racists for not supporting Baracky. I was referring to DaBombzIdiocy. I was referring to Rescue3 who, in a thread about Republicans talking about how it is the Republicans fault, drops by to squeal “stop crying” less than 24 hours after the polls have closed. This coming from the people who still whine that Bush stole Florida and was selected not elected. Then it has the temerity to tell us to leave the country. I guess it is easier to govern if there is nobody to oppose your policies.

    aphrael – I was not referring to you, and I apologize if you thought I was. Your insight would be interesting, and productive. Those fellow travelers of yours, not so much ;-)

    JD (008a90)

  79. Definitely not by running anyone currently in your party.

    Gary – Your brilliance is astounding. Clearly, the Republicans need to run a Democrat to get back on track.

    JD (008a90)

  80. @74

    Dennis,

    This is what is wrong with politics. You are more concerned with winning than what is good for the country. Power over principle. Of course, if the GOP keeps Bush policy the only thing they will filibuster is judicial appointments and same sex marriage bills while writing checks to everyone with their hand out.

    OregonGuy (0283e2)

  81. Gary – Your brilliance is astounding. Clearly, the Republicans need to run a Democrat to get back on track.

    Comment by JD — 11/5/2008 @ 4:10 pm

    That’s basically the “advice” they keep giving.

    It’s basically the “advice” Republicans have been taking too.

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  82. the GOP needs to quit blaming everything on the Dems

    In a thread titled “It’s the Republicans, Stupid”

    JD (008a90)

  83. Wow!!! Get over it. Time to move on. I can’t believe some of the unpatriotic comments here. If the Republican party had won, would you want the Dems to dig their heels in and resist unity/progress?

    All this talk about fear makes me think Michael Moore was correct. The American people are afraid of their own shadows and see bogeymen everywhere. How left could the most capitalistic society on the planet go?

    Seems to me Obama is the President Elect and the last time I checked this was the USA.

    Tony (7c6625)

  84. JD, no need to apologize. I did not think you were talking to me, although I admit I’m more likely today to fly off the handle at things.

    I was just trying to hijack again! :)

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  85. All right, so the Republicans were taken to the woodshed, punished, and are a bit lost in the wilderness right now.

    Right out of the gate, there is a big lesson of what NOT to do that future Presidential campaigns can take away from McCain/Palin ’08:

    Communication and Messaging: The Republicans, right from the beginning, must have a plan to communicate their message to the masses for every single momentof the campaign. You can’t simply bemoan the fact that the Press is biased against your campaign, even if it is true. You have to aggressively get your message out through every possible medium, and compel the rest of the media to cover your campaign on your terms.
    So you can’t catch a break in the Times/Post/Networks? Should that be a surprise to any Republican Presidential campaign? Only if you were asleep at the switch for the last 16 years! No Republican Presidential Candidate is going to catch a break from Maureen Dowd in the six weeks prior to the election, so have a plan to outreach via blogs, talk radio, podcasts, regional newsmedia, et al.

    Of course communicating assumes you actually have a MESSAGE. Even if McCain/Palin had an aggressive messaging plan for this election (which I would argue they DID NOT), their communications were garbled, disjointed and defensive at best; why was it ok to roll Ayers out when your campaign is down in the polls, but not at the beginning of the campaign, (which is a good time to define your opponent, by the way).
    Really, what did the McCain campaign truly stand for, especially on domestic policy? He only differentiated himself a bit after the third debate (thanks to Obama providing him an opening); before that, I could not have told you where he stood on any economic or social issues.
    And many times during the last few weeks of the campaign, he sounded like a crappy moderate democrat running against a great democrat during a democratic primary.

    Hopefully these are the kind of thoughts conservatives ponder while in political exile, and they come out of the wilderness energized and ready to communicate and fight for their ideas. If

    At least it’s all over now, as I talk about here.

    Bob W (e9bf3b)

  86. My daughter received straight A’s on her report card recently. Do you think her teacher should take some of her A’s and distribute them out to kids that only have C’s and D’s? At least my daughter would end up with a C+ right? I’ll talk to her and see if she is ok with this. Might as well get her thinking along these lines early in life.

    Please comment as to what I should do here.

    BPW (60a00b)

  87. One problem standing in the way of the Republicans making a comeback is Newt and 1994.

    He lied and we all still remember.

    So, no Contract With America II.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  88. Wow!!! Get over it. Time to move on. I can’t believe some of the unpatriotic comments here. If the Republican party had won, would you want the Dems to dig their heels in and resist unity/progress?

    Less than 24 hours after the election, the Republicans should quit assessing the Republican party and just get over it. Bush stole Florida! Selected not elected!!!!!!eleventy! Diebold.

    So, Tony, what did the Dems do to promote unity and progress in 2000 or 2004? Be specific.

    JD (008a90)

  89. #78 ………….. Mario? Oh that’s me…… right I forgot about the dyslexia JD. (good thing I like you)

    Yeah, I agree with you, no one should tell you to leave the country if you whine about the outcome of an election.

    But I don’t know, the foul mouth lessens your points (just an observation).

    Oiram (983921)

  90. aphrael – The Conservative Mind by Russell Kirk is one of the more interesting reads. He was related to my mother, by marriage, and I met him a few times. I did not really appreciate that at the time, but now wish I had been able to appreciate who he was.

    JD (008a90)

  91. @78

    Well, every moderate (Including me) I know was turned off by her. I also read a CNN article to that effect.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/05/palin.campaign.anatomy/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

    I was kidding about the “Huckabee/Palin ticket”. But only a little bit.

    OregonGuy (0283e2)

  92. Mark Steyn today on NRO’s the Corner: “Why did McCain … not even mention [Rev.] Wright? Because he was terrified someone would point a finger and cry ‘Racist!’”

    What do others think of Steyn’s charge?

    Personally, I’m not an expert on Rev. Wright (who I’m sure has been discussed here), but when I went back and looked today, it seemed to me that the “GD America” sermon was nothing more than another fundamentalist preacher’s statement that God will punish this country because of its moral failures. In this case the moral failure being its treatment of blacks, not homosexuality, or abortion, etc.

    Since the statement was so closely tied to black/white issues, wouldn’t pointing to it have been very politically risky; i.e., it’s OK for a white preacher to condemn the country and say God will punish us because of immorality, but not OK for a black preacher to say the same thing, but because of racism?

    Peccator Dubius (0a6237)

  93. #86 Congrats to your daughter’s A grade. No BPW she should keep her grade, she earned it, it’s hers. She will have a great future ahead of her, probably successfully in her chosen career.

    Don’t you want the C+ students that will be surrounding her in life to be able to earn a middle class wage if they work hard?

    I mean they are going to be the ones that will purchase what ever it is that will be making your intelligent daughter a profitable living.
    Ask her she may agree.

    Oiram (983921)

  94. if you whine about the outcome of an election.

    Dammit. Who is whining about the outcome? Reflecting on what your own party did wrong, and there is plenty in that list, is not whining. Mario, you are better than these drive-by trolls, or so I thought. Don’t stoop to their level.

    You are right, I should not curse. But in the last few weeks, we have been innundated with drive-by trolls, general mendoucheousness, and even more so today. Many are not pleased with the idea that as a result of a bunch of bad decisions, someone like Baracky was able to get elected. The trolls are coming into our living room, and taking a shit right on the carpet. We should not have to offer to help them clean it up, or thank them for doing so.

    JD (008a90)

  95. JD – at some point we have to grow up and stop pointing fingers. I’m male and hate it when my wife brings up something from 30 years ago to support her position. :D

    Fundamentality, we are in a different time, hopefully with greater awareness and have matured as a people.

    Human nature is such that no one will ever agree with you 100% of the time.

    Obama will be the President of the USA and we need to support him and our country.

    Tony (7c6625)

  96. Being from Arizona and from a rabidly Republican family I have watched and listened to the growing intolerance from hard core conservatives. By reading some of these posts I have to say that for the Republicans ignorance is bliss. The right wing pundits feed them this crap and they are filled with such self righteousness that they eat it up.
    Here’s a clue on the facts. Your policies since the Reagan administration have finally imploded the economy. Just like during the last great depression you still don’t get it that unchecked greed is never a good thing.
    You seem shocked that people don’t want to see their jobs going over seas, not because of high taxes but because they don’t have to pay benefits and wages are usually less than a dollar an hour. Basically big business has found a huge supply of sweatshop labor with non existent labor laws.
    Oh that’s right; this is fine with you because the way you look at things is if you’re doing all right than everything must be great.
    Here’s another clue. “We the people” built this Country. “We the people” died for its independence. “We the people” make this country great not the corporations.
    For a party which stresses individual freedom Republicans sure want to have a lot of control on how the rest of us live.

    Ken (a3c6a2)

  97. It’s time for deep soul-searching and a lot less of name-calling and blame-sharing.

    Yes, let us use the past eight years of Democrat’s behavior as as example, shall we?

    - Bush is a Nazi;
    - our troops are trigger – happy Killbots, who come home and wish to go on murderous rampages because of the injustices of the Iraq War;
    - Cheney is Darth Vader;
    - Condi Rice is a traitor to her race;
    - the GOP is going to imprison us all just because we say things they don’t like;
    - The Rethuglicans are racists;
    - ChimpyMcBushitler;
    - Gitmo’s current residents are completely innocent and just happened to be in the same firefight as our own insane, ignorant, Hillbilly Killbots;
    - The Supreme Court are hacks;
    - Clarence Thomas is an Uncle Tom;
    - Cindy Sheehan’s “mother’s moral authority” trumps anyone else’s opinion about the war;
    - Saddam wasn’t a threat to anyone, especially his own people;
    - Bush is a LIAR!
    - Bush is evil incarnate, and the GOP is Mordor, intent on destroying the world via Global Warming

    Hilarious.

    Dmac (e30284)

  98. Oiram (and to a lesser extent, love2008):

    My opinion may not represent the mainstream of conservative thought but I think the GOP only needs two principles. I will post on these two principles and why I think they matter, assuming I can write something on it worth sharing.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  99. I stumbled onto this site and found the debate interesting so I figured to add to it…. here are my thoughts

    1) BHO will need to govern moderate-to-left in order to win in 2012 — and this is the ultimate objective of “The Powerpoint” President we just choose

    2) The call by the Media to give BHO “time” is sheer lunacy in light of the past 8 years of hysteria, smears aned lies perpetuated against the current President — a flawed man but nevertheless well principled IMHO. The media is a disgrace and the sheer magnitude of their hyprocrisy is mind boggling.

    3) Over 30 and White went McCain, under 30 and White went BHO — welcome to the coddled Barney Generation where gold stars and good feelings are more important than accomplishement. Voting BHO was akin to purging “original sin.” Thank our countless Colleges and High Schools for making a kids born after 1980 think he/she has any blame for slavery or civil rights affronts.

    4) Can someone explain to me how 96% of blacks vote BHO and not one person talks, or writes, about bias and bigotry in the black community?

    5) Are Conservatives saying they are going to leave the country like our “patriotic” libs? Last I checked a few Hollywood types have yet to honor their screech to leave 4/8 years ago.

    6) Is anyone ready to proclaim Affirmative Action dead? Looks to me this all this should be repealed now — unless of course if the whole point is not even the playing field but to stack it f/b/o black folks. BHO can do it — so can you and without my tax dollars please.

    Before I hear the perpetual whine of guilty white kids who hit the “Born in the USA” DNA lottery, I am hispanic, born dirt poor and now pretty damn rich. My parents don’t speak Enlgish and we never took a penny from the public. I am self made and need no lectures from silver spoon buffoons on what “poor people” need or what racism is.

    Been there and done that but frankly I bulldozed ahead and “living life without fear, putting five carrats in my baby girl’s ear.” (Props Biggie)

    Cya.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  100. Got it JD, Peace Brother.

    Oiram (983921)

  101. Bill Clinton, a Democrat, supported NAFTA and GATT, Ken. You need to get a clue. Lots of them, in fact. Or your need to acquire some job skills.

    Official Internet Data Office (df6254)

  102. “Being from Arizona and from a rabidly Republican family I have watched and listened to the growing intolerance from hard core conservatives.”

    Being a cut – and – paste Troll whose job doing Trollbotting of Conservative blogs just became obsolete, I have consumed acres of Cheetos and gallons of Diet Snapple, and have come the unfortunate conclusion that my bowels are currently inoperable. I find this situation to be quite intolerant, and I blame the Bush administration for this vile obstructionism.

    Dmac (e30284)

  103. Oh and Republicans, you need to revisit Hayek and Rand if you want to refresh you soul and intellect. Democrat lite is sheer BS and an inspiration to no one.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  104. If liberals were so smart, then why is it that they need to elect someone to help them with their money problems? Also how hard is it to get elected when you are promising to give away free money?

    BPW (60a00b)

  105. “come to the…”

    Dmac (e30284)

  106. The easy thing in the world is to give away another person’s money. It is also the easiest way to make friends and gain influence.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  107. Mark Steyn today on NRO’s the Corner: “Why did McCain … not even mention [Rev.] Wright? Because he was terrified someone would point a finger and cry ‘Racist!’”

    I do not understand why they would have been scared of being called racists. They were called racists for all sorts of absolutely BS reasons, and would have been regardless of what they did. It was racist to talk about Ayers. Racist to say his middle name. Racist to question the CAC. Racist to point out that he had no experience. Racist to say he was skinny. Racist to say he is articulate. Baracky placed the race card all the time – did you know he was black? Had a funny name? Does not look like those on the dollar bill?

    PeccatorDubius – There is soooo much more than that one quote in the Rev. Wright issue. US KKK of America. Whites created AIDS to kill blacks. Support of Hamas. Overt support of Farrakhan.

    McCain was foolish to not point these things out. Especially since Baracky was selling judgment.

    JD (008a90)

  108. BPW – Are you referring to wealth management companies and financial planners for us rich folks? lol

    Taxation of any kind is redistribution.

    Tony (7c6625)

  109. Robert Rodriguez,

    There are often comments from both sides of the aisle here (especially during this election season), but I think this website is generally considered conservative and many of us agree with what you’ve said.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  110. It looks like to me the dumb outweigh the intelligent in this election. Save me obama save me.. I cant get off my butt to learn a decent trade. I have a problem with laziness.. Help please pay my rent, please pay my car payment… I’m a tard! I cant help myself anymore.

    BPW (60a00b)

  111. Tony,

    “Obama will be the President of the USA and we need to support him and our country.”

    The Dems are not interested in Unity or Bi-partisan solutions. They are interested in Power! If they were interested in Unity they would not have poured millions of dollars into State elections in an attempt to get a super majority.

    Obama wants my support like the farmer wants the Cattle’s support on the way to the slaughter house.

    OregonGuy (0283e2)

  112. It isn’t the Republicans, it’s the Republic. I agree that McCain was not the best candidate, but Obama was horrible. Too many people couldn’t see that he’s a charlatan. Over half the voters couldn’t see that they were electing the modern version of P. T. Barnum.

    Juan McWang (08b3ff)

  113. Oregonguy – All political parties are interested in power. Nature of the beast…. My only point is that with the elections over, and if we believe in the constitution, then we need to pull together as a nation.

    I’m not going to let petty differences stop me from serving my country and looking after family.

    Tony (7c6625)

  114. DRJ,

    Ya, kind of figured but it looks like you still have some dissenters in the audience.

    ** God, I wish I could spell and type better.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  115. Comment by aphrael — 11/5/2008 @ 1:57 pm

    Groundings in Conservative Thought….
    The Road To Serfdom….Hayak,
    The Rights of Man….Locke,
    anything by William A Buckley,
    Conscience of a Conservative…Goldwater,
    Read National Review from the beginning (more Buckley),
    de Tocqueville

    Well, that should keep him busy for a few weeks,
    hahahaha

    Another Drew (579482)

  116. Liberals are like children.. while Obama was handing out other people’s money (giving away free candy) McCain was offering tools to learn how to earn for yourself.

    So what would happen if the rich just stood still, kept their money.. laid off everyone they could…and took a long 2 month vacation in another country while the lazy half of America ran the country?

    See… why punish the motivated.. How easy is it to get elected while offering the world for free..

    Listen its easier to eat the desert before the wholesome food.

    BPW (60a00b)

  117. Brandon:

    My daughter received straight A’s on her report card recently. Do you think her teacher should take some of her A’s and distribute them out to kids that only have C’s and D’s? At least my daughter would end up with a C+ right? I’ll talk to her and see if she is ok with this. Might as well get her thinking along these lines early in life.

    Please comment as to what I should do here.

    You might be interested in this post.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  118. Barack is the “Powerpoint” President — with each passing time you see one the graphics euphoria wears off while the content gets thinner and more predictable.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  119. JD, thanks for response, I’d heard about the AID’s claim, but not much else. Aren’t they’re a lot of conspiracy theories in the inner cities about crack cocaine, HIV, AIDS, etc.

    More on Prop 8, Gay Marraige, in CA from AP:

    “Exit polls revealed dramatic demographic gaps in the gay-marriage vote. While 63 percent of voters under 30 opposed the ban, 59 percent of those 65 and older supported it. There were sharp racial discrepancies as well. Even as black voters overwhelmingly backed Barack Obama — a gay-rights supporter — in the presidential race, 70 percent of them voted against gay marriage, compared with 47 percent of white voters.”

    Peccator Dubius (0a6237)

  120. Tony – The only one pointing fingers is you.

    Obama will be the President of the USA and we need to support him and our country.

    Weren’t you the one that told us to leave if we did not like things? Or, should we just submit?

    I will continue to respect the office of the President. I will give Baracky whatever respect he may earn. I will continue to love our country. And trolls like you will continue to make my blood pressure go up.

    Being from Arizona and from a rabidly Republican family I have watched and listened to the growing intolerance from hard core conservatives

    I have to admit, I quit reading right here … Moby, right? Copy and paste talking points, right?

    I like Robert Rodriguez.

    JD (008a90)

  121. So what would happen if the rich just stood still, kept their money..
    Comment by BPW — 11/5/2008 @ 4:45 pm

    Welcome to the Great Depression.
    That is what happened then, and it could very well happen again in the near future unless the government is smart enough not to make the same mistakes again.

    Yes, I know that I am contradicting myself.

    Another Drew (579482)

  122. It sounds to me that is what the country needs in order for people to learn how to make money on their own.. instead of having Uncle Obama feeding them like they are his children.

    BPW (60a00b)

  123. I think its time for you conservatives to join the rest of America, it’s not about hate it’s about America.
    So be a real American and step up to the plate when your new president asks you to.
    Suck it up

    President Obama loves you

    Cam (a5251c)

  124. if we believe in the constitution, then we need to pull together as a nation

    Tony – I suppose you can show us where the Dems did this in 2000 and 2004?

    Barack Obama — a gay-rights supporter

    Neither Baracky or Biden is in favor of same sex marriage. Their positions are no different than President Bush’s. Another issue where people see what they want to see, and hear what they want to hear.

    JD (008a90)

  125. Robert Rodriguez,

    There are lots of dissenters, although there seem to be more today than usual. Our host Patterico likes a wide range of views because he’s not interested in an echo chamber, and most of us keep coming back because we enjoy looking at issues from all sides.

    Of course, not everyone is principled and courteous in these debates. Keep an eye out for comments from Aphrael, voiceofreason2, and Kishnevi — they routinely offer thoughtful and courteous comments, typically (but not always) from the left — as well as Aplomb, Oiram and Peter. The last three can be more confrontational but they certainly add to the debate.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  126. Liberalism by another name is called envy

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  127. forget that.. sell your businesses now.. take a long long vacation outside of the country for 2 -3 months.. Watch it all unfold =) make the lazy work for once!

    BPW (60a00b)

  128. Nebraska banned racial preferences and quotas yesterday. California and Arizona banned gay marriage yesterday, and Florida did it for the second time. (Well, so did California, now that I think of it.)

    Never mind Hayek. He’s great, but social issues win elections, Patterico.

    Official Internet Data Office (df6254)

  129. BPW wrote “Liberals are like children.. while Obama was handing out other people’s money (giving away free candy) McCain was offering tools to learn how to earn for yourself.”

    Generalizations like these is what I define as petty. Sorry, but I can’t buy off on it.

    Don’t get me wrong, I prefer that people learn to “fish” vrs being handed one….

    Bad things happen to good people. Sometimes we all need help, lol including the banks :P

    Tony (7c6625)

  130. I think its time for you conservatives to join the rest of America,

    I am sure this passes as eloquent and insightful, somewhere.

    it’s not about hate it’s about America.

    Spare me.

    step up to the plate when your new president asks you to.

    You first. President Bush could use your support during the next 3 months.

    JD (008a90)

  131. I wwent shopping when Bush asked me to, JD.

    Time for you “conservatives” to prove they’re real Americans.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  132. Robert Rodriguez – DRJ is a sharp one. Kind and patient, to a fault ;-) Her list was mostly accurate, but I would not include Peter, unless she included him to show a verbose person suffering from end-stage BDS.

    JD (008a90)

  133. JD – you must have me confused with someone else. I never told anyone to leave.

    I’m for uniting the country and forgetting our petty differences.

    BTW, I’m hardcore right wing.

    Tony (7c6625)

  134. It’s true.. I think we should show who really runs this country. Sell off what you own while you can.. Capital gains taxes are not so bad as they will be. Go on a cruise.. take a few cruises. Go spend that hard earned money at another country for a while. Spend it in countries that really could use some extra tourism cash. Then come back and enjoy being the only one that can afford to purchase a meal. Then teach people how to earn an income.. rebuild what our forefathers created.. A hard working America.. and America that earns their keep in this country.

    BPW (60a00b)

  135. Time for you “conservatives” to prove they’re real Americans.

    Let me guess. In order to prove that we are real Americans, we have to act like Democrats?

    Time for you “conservatives” to prove they’re real Americans.

    I apologize, in advance, DRJ and Patterico.

    Fuck off, sniffles. Nobody needs to prove that they are real Americans to you or anyone else. #*()$&#)(*%&#*(&$)(#@*&%)(&#%_*(&@#_$*(#@_$)

    JD (008a90)

  136. JD,

    I suspect you like Peter more than some of the new visitors we’re having today, who by the way are coming from this not-so-charming Huffington Post post.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  137. I’m for uniting the country

    How do you suggest we do that?

    JD (008a90)

  138. I agree with JD!

    BPW (60a00b)

  139. DRJ, liberalism does not scare me in any form.

    I realise most liberals envision creating a world that can never exist. Even at the heights of their triumph, it is an impossibility to speak of freedom while preaching social responsibility.

    It is is inherently deep contradiction which can only be reconciled by accepting you are a hypocrite who seeks to enslave one to benefit the other — all because of envy and selfishness.

    The only way to provide social justice and personal freedom simultaneosuly is through capitalism, democracy and through rule of law to support such.

    200 years of data/results normally would be enough of an arguement to disuade Liberals/Scialist/Communists but alas the last hope to disappear is that of a free lunch.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  140. Prove yourself to be a real American by going after the dream and not someone elses pocket book for a change. I think Obama was trying to say “Change we can steal” rather than “Change we can believe in”.

    BPW (60a00b)

  141. JD,

    That’s fine.

    You do realize the Dems can now govern without any input at all from the Republicans, don’t you?

    snuffles (677ec2)

  142. Wow!!! Get over it. Time to move on. I can’t believe some of the unpatriotic comments here. If the Republican party had won, would you want the Dems to dig their heels in and resist unity/progress?

    All this talk about fear makes me think Michael Moore was correct. The American people are afraid of their own shadows and see bogeymen everywhere. How left could the most capitalistic society on the planet go?

    Seems to me Obama is the President Elect and the last time I checked this was the USA.

    These are not the words of a hardcore right winger, Moby.

    JD (008a90)

  143. DRJ – They just make shit up at HuffPo, don’t they?

    PATTERICO: “The incredibly true story of how a couple of black dudes in Halloween costumes intimidated the entire state of Pennsylvania!”

    “Republicans complained about voter intimidation in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania this morning. Via Hot Air, it turned out to be two Black Panthers – one with a nightstick – who were guarding the polling site doors and reportedly were intimidating voters.”

    JD (008a90)

  144. Snuffles,

    I hope you haven’t come here to pick a fight because that could earn you a trip to moderation.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  145. Comment by aphrael — 11/5/2008 @ 1:57 pm

    Two important voices of contemporary conservatism
    Dr. Thomas Sowell
    Dr. Victor Davis Hansen
    both fellows at the Hoover Institute, Stanford.

    Hansen is IIRC a registered Dem, and an authority on Ancient Greek History;
    Sowell is a Chicago-School Economist, and Black, and grew up in Harlem.

    Another Drew (579482)

  146. Dems can’t govern NO MONEY.. because that is exactly what is going to happen when we hold back from spending and cut jobs like its going out of style.

    BPW (60a00b)

  147. Come on, sniffles. How are we supposed to prove that we are real Americans, and why in the hell do we need to prove that to you?

    Govern without me. I do not care. You won. To the victors go the spoils. Come 9 JAN 09, it is all on you. Funny how in ’00 and ’04 you were all calling for the Republicans to reach out to the losers. Not so much when you win.

    JD (008a90)

  148. I’m not “looking for a fight” DRJ.

    Nobody wants to admit all the power Bush seized to act “unitarily” without Congress will now go to President Obama.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  149. DRJ – We must prove that we are real Americans to our new liberal overlords.

    JD (008a90)

  150. Here is a profound thought for my friends ….

    Q: When does life begin in the womb?

    A: When a women thinks she might be pregnant.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  151. I’m not “looking for a fight” DRJ.

    Then why must conservatives prove that they are real Americans to anyone, much less you?

    JD (008a90)

  152. He has used his community organizing skills to reach out to voters and obtain nearly ten million more votes than McCain. The republicans could take a page out of Obama’s book.

    Actually, Barack Obama took a page out of Howard Dean’s playbook.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  153. JD, I realize that Congress gets sworn in on 9 Jan, but you’re going to cause a brain cramp in the Lefties trying to figure out why BHO isn’t being inaugurated until the 20th.

    Another Drew (579482)

  154. Official Internet Data Office: “California and Arizona banned gay marriage yesterday, and Florida did it for the second time. (Well, so did California, now that I think of it.)”

    Yes, CA passed Prop 22 in 2000 by 61%, which was overturned this year by the CA Supreme Court, resulting in Prop 8. Prop 8, however, has only passed with a 52% majority and that may have been largely due to the greater than usual number of black voters. Given the way CA works, I expect that we will see a new initiative in the next election to undo Prop 8.

    Peccator Dubius (0a6237)

  155. We have an incredible opportunity to regain our reputation in the world, to unite people of all races, religions, and persuasions into a TRUE UNITED States of America. Please don’t let your cynicism stand in the way of your being part of this historic transformation. Bias, ignorance, prejudice, and fear have outlived their purpose. It’s time to be part of the greater good with a true focus on hope, prosperity and the revival of the American dream. Have faith that our wonderful country makes these twists and turns for a purpose. It’s a new day! With truly new hope and purpose. I pray you all embrace this and help us make America great again! God bless!

    MJ (fb09c8)

  156. Because, JD.

    Your girl Palin labeled the wrong parts of this country “Real America.”

    Remember?

    snuffles (677ec2)

  157. Respect is a two way street and frankly Democrats have not earned mine after the last eigth years of screaming.

    To still, today, hear them yap about “stealing” 2000 in light of countless recounts is quite precious.

    Hell, we can’t complain about the recent election and need to come together but they are still reliving 2000.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  158. JD – Okay folks… I’ve seen enough. As a Republican, I’m ashamed to think that we are this closed minded.

    My comments were simply that we are the USA and we need to support our country. But I am sad to see that so many would prefer to cling to our personal selfish beliefs and site as many reasons as possible why we should not move the country forward with a united front.

    Seems to me that while you preach the high road to independence, there is no grace, maturity, or any room for anyone else.

    JD thinks fit because I extend an olive branch and ask the country to come together for the greater good that I’m not right wing.

    Wow, I see why we lost.

    Tony (7c6625)

  159. I’m again struck by the angry cynical biting of the left in these post-election comments. Even after they have won there is no joy.

    I’ll stay on the right. We may be the losers in this election and our political family may be a bit dysfunctional, need some therapy, re-evaluation and rehabilitation but no matter, our foundation is solid, our ideals still golden and mostly, we are a happy and thankful people who never forget the gift that America is to us.

    I wish the bitter lefty trolls here and at the silly HuffPo could know this sort of happiness.

    But then I guess they would need to lean right to make the discovery. Heh.

    Dana (79a78b)

  160. A problem with the Republican party stems from the pandering to the Moral Majority and Right to Bear arms factions. The party could/can only hold so much “planks” – (old school term) and in caving in to those ‘special interests’ lost its soul with respect to the its core beliefs of less gov’t. and fiscal conservatism. I suspect there is a good number of the populace that shuns the Rep. party because of the extreme right members.

    Iam Sure (c6f29c)

  161. Aphrael:

    As AD mentioned, I recommend starting with columns by Thomas Sowell. He’s a serious conservative thinker, writes well, and his columns are accessible online. He addresses a range of issues and while it won’t be a global approach to conservatism, that’s where I’d start.

    If your friend finds Sowell’s writings helpful, he has also written this book on conservative economic theory.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  162. Proposition 22 (2000) and Proposition 8 (2008) were identical, except Proposition 8 was a state constitutional amendment, not just a modifcation of the California Civil Code.

    Official Internet Data Office (df6254)

  163. MJ, where were you in 2000 and 2004?

    It is patronizing to talk about coming together after hearing for 6 months about the”failed Bush polcies of the a last 8 years” every two minutes.

    Heck, last I checked he stopped “dat shit cold” at 9-11. More than I can say for Clinton.

    Also, let me point out that I think McCain had more votes in 2008 than GWB in 2004. So … wWhere is this “mandate” the media is hyperventilating about?

    Barack is the “Powerpoint” President — the more you see them, the less impressed you are by the graphics and the more you realize how little they say.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  164. Even after they have won there is no joy.

    Didn’t they show the tens of millions of Americans cheering Obama’s victory on Fox last night, Dana?

    snuffles (677ec2)

  165. How does one prove that they are a real American, sniffles?

    For some reason, you assume that everyone agrees with such a statement.

    Tony – I call Moby. Saying you are one thing, while speaking the exact opposite language. Nobody is afraid of Baracky. We do not like his policies, and fear for what might result. We could care less what color he is.

    How are we supposed to show this unity? What gives you the impression that anyone here does not love America, or support their country? We do not have to like our President’s policies to support our country, and if your idea of supporting our country is to simply submit our will to Baracky …

    What does “come together for the greater good” even mean? It sounds like something some athlete says after a game that is utterly meaningless. One game at a time. We are coming together as a team. Blah, blah, blah …

    JD (008a90)

  166. Comment by MJ — 11/5/2008 @ 5:13 pm

    Welcome to the Second Coming of the Age of Aquarius!

    Unfortunately, the World doesn’t work that way, and neither does the United States.

    E Pluribus Unum

    But, we’re still many.

    The United States is where people go to be rewarded for their individual accomplishments, where they can be individuals, and where they will be held accountable as individuals.
    The collective has no part here, except as individuals band together (Freedom of Association) to accomplish shared goals as individual members of a team.

    Another Drew (579482)

  167. Why is it that masses cheering Bush’s win in 2004 are crazed socipathic religous nut jobs but somehow the same crowds in Chicago are some type of celebbration of the enlightened?

    Again, offensive to those of us on the right. I “ain’t” religous but I do find “these” people to be decent people worthy of respect.

    FIWI, I am rooting for Obama. I hope he takes on pet Liberal causes which are bankrupting this country. In fact, I strongly believe only an “EX” true believer can turn around the “wayward” flock.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  168. problem with the Republican party stems from the pandering to the Moral Majority and Right to Bear arms factions

    In what universe is it a problem to follow the Constitution?

    JD (008a90)

  169. BTW, I’m hardcore right wing.

    No, Tony, you’re not–especially when you use phrases like “ask the country to come together for the greater good” and “move the country forward with a united front.” The term “United Front” was a favorite of Trotsky’s and the Communist International (Comintern).

    You’re not fooling anybody.

    Official Internet Data Office (df6254)

  170. Yes, OIDO, that’s the history of the CA Props. The first one was an initiative statute, which the CA SC could overturn as violating the equal protection clause of the CA Constitution.

    The Prop 8 constitutional amendment trumps that. It could only be overturned as violating equal protection clause of the US Constitution, which is unlikely at the US SC level at this time (although the US Supreme Court did overturn in 1964 a voter passed amendment to the CA constitution that allowed racial discrimination in housing).

    Peccator Dubius (0a6237)

  171. Comment by Peccator Dubius — 11/5/2008 @ 5:26 pm

    Because it conflicted with the 14th Amendment.
    But, there is no mention of sexuality, or marriage in the Constitution, and CA recognizes Civil Unions.

    Another Drew (579482)

  172. “problem with the Republican party stems from the pandering to the Moral Majority and Right to Bear arms factions”

    As opposed to the Greenies, the Abortionists, the Affirmative Actionists, Trial Lawyers, NAACP, the Unions ….. oh dear.

    Precious. Ignorant. Arrogant.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  173. In order to overturn this Constitutional Amendment, do they have to have another ballot initiative declaring the Constitution unconstitutional?

    JD (008a90)

  174. Sarah Palin in a dinner table consrvative. I agree she needs some serious seasoning and taking over Ted Stevens seat might be her best option to do so.

    I find her a bit too “Mid-West for my tastes but I also think if she can tone done the personality and sharpen the knowledge base, she has a very very good shot in 2016.

    FWIW, I think 2012 is already in the bag for Democrats — they will be blaming Bush well into 2011 and given the recent election folks will want to believe it as true.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  175. Tony,

    There are other posts on this website that urge people to support Obama and wish him good luck. To base your opinion on a few comments doesn’t seem as open-minded as you claim to be.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  176. In order to overturn this Constitutional Amendment, do they have to have another ballot initiative declaring the Constitution unconstitutional?

    Comment by JD

    Yes, JD, that’s what I think. There are some lawsuits being brought already by the ACLU, etc., but I would be surprised if they went anywhere.

    Peccator Dubius (0a6237)

  177. My daughter received straight A’s on her report card recently. Do you think her teacher should take some of her A’s and distribute them out to kids that only have C’s and D’s? At least my daughter would end up with a C+ right? I’ll talk to her and see if she is ok with this. Might as well get her thinking along these lines early in life.

    Please comment as to what I should do here.

    Comment by BPW — 11/5/2008 @ 4:16 pm

    BPW, please do not tell your daughter something so illogical. Do not stifle your daughter’s intelligence with your idiocy. This is what you should do. Thoughtfully explain to her that if Republicans like Bush and McCain had their way, she would never be offered the opportunity to go to college because Republicans would get rid of low interest rate loans for college students, so that the student loan industry would be completely privatized. Explain to her that President-Elect Obama will make sure that low interest rate loans for college are offered so that if mommy and daddy make investments in a failed economy because of the republicans’s desire to deregulate the markets and therefore have no money to pay for their daughter to go to college, she can be assured to acquire a low interest rate loan to attend. Explain to her that Obama’s pragmatic views of distribution have to do with making sure that any American who works hard and wants to have a shot at acquiring an education will not have to rely soley on the private loan industry to acquire money to attend college. Therefore, she will have a shot at working hard at her school work in order to obtain A’s just like any of Bush’s children or McCain’s children.

    Da Bombz Diggity (6cc032)

  178. #30 aphrael:

    But, at the risk of thread-jacking, I do have a perhaps somewhat on-topic question: my husband is looking for books – thoughtful, reasoned writings about political and economic philosophy, rather than pop politics stuff

    Well, sometimes, pop is funner! Anything by C. Norcote Parkinson, on The Law or its derivitives. (He also has some much more serious work on the rise of socialism in Europe, but his works on governance are by far the most palatable and belie the thoughtfulness inherent in them.)

    Of course, for dry, dusty tomes that cloak incredible ideas, it’s difficult to beat Kelso and Adler’s The Capitalist Manifesto (available for free download from the Kelso Institute here.)

    And of course, for basic economics, well, Basic Economics: A Citizen’s Guide to the Ecomomy by Thomas Sowell.

    Enjoy.

    EW1(SG) (0f914b)

  179. FWIW, I think 2012 is already in the bag for Democrats — they will be blaming Bush well into 2011 and given the recent election folks will want to believe it as true.

    Comment by Robert Rodriguez

    Bob, remember Jimmy Carter. Lots can happen.

    Peccator Dubius (0a6237)

  180. Bias, ignorance, prejudice, and fear have outlived their purpose.”

    Don’t tell it to this group of political readers. Our votes and voices have helped open doors for minorities for years, such to the degree that a black man is nominated and wins first time around in an historic race.

    Conversely, your advice is exactly what’s needed for Rev. Wright, Ayers & Dohrn, Michelle Obama (based on her own quotes) and a large number of Obama-Soros insiders.

    May Barry surprise us all and develop a better way of life for all Americans and not just his preferred races and religions. That’s what made McCain’s ticket attractive (and for me, the differences in experience, which were breath-taking). This Obama win is literally more disturbing and surprising than the surprise attacks on that fateful morning in 2001. I always feared the Soros purse strings. Never dreamed this country’s voters would fall prey.

    Also not expecting the country to evolve into a productive or prosperous era. Not with the welfare plans and business-killing mandates ready to roll down the Obama chute. Just expecting a more divided landscape, one of heavy self-entitlement, handouts, and speechifying by the rulers who encourage it all. Very very unfortunate outcome.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  181. JD,

    I am sure once Barack gets the Supreme Court to rule on wealth redistribution, he will tackle usurping the will of the people on issues of civil rights.

    Only a matter of time before a Federal “thingey” get put into motion for gay marriage.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  182. Oiram,

    I’m quite amused that you managed to first ignore that markets might react to news about future supply and then confuse supply and demand. Both are sorta important, but it’s fairly obvious that if futures markets believe supply will be increasing, prices will decrease, other factors being equal.

    And I’m doubly amused that you attack me for telling you what you’re supposed to believe, after asking (#37) what you’re now supposed to believe. You might want to read what you wrote before slamming me for responding in the manner you requested.

    Karl (eacece)

  183. Obama said there were 57 states in the Union. Biden said FDR went on TV in 1929. And that’s with plenty of “seasoning” in Washington.

    Official Internet Data Office (df6254)

  184. Well, sometimes, pop is funner!

    Absolutely. But less likely to meet what he’s looking for here. :)

    Thank you, JD, DRJ, EW(1)SG, Another Drew, and others.

    Please keep them coming; a longer list gives him more to choose from.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  185. Also, while I was away, snuffles forgot the whole “dissent is the highest form of patriotsim” thing we heard so much of for eight years and which will now be dropped by the Left like it was atomic waste.

    Karl (eacece)

  186. Only a matter of time before a Federal “thingey” get put into motion for gay marriage.

    Comment by Robert Rodriguez

    Bob, Obama has been a consistent supporter of gay rights, sponsoring anti-discrimination in IL, but on gay marraige he has said, “I’m a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.”

    We’ll see.

    Peccator Dubius (0a6237)

  187. Dana,

    most of my liberal friends have been experiencing severe mixed emotions today.

    On the plus side: joy that Obama has won, that we have a non-white-male as President, that liberalism has in some sense been vindicated, that the Congress is going to be the most liberal Congress in a generation.

    On the minus side: prop 8 passed.

    I don’t think I can begin to describe just how devastating that is for people who cared deeply about it not passing.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  188. Thoughtfully explain to her that if Republicans like Bush and McCain had their way, she would never be offered the opportunity to go to college because Republicans would get rid of low interest rate loans for college students, so that the student loan industry would be completely privatized.

    Your assertion is a lie, as it is completely unsupported by the proffered evidence. Shocka.

    I was going to go through the rest of that, but it is pure unadulterated drivel.

    JD (008a90)

  189. 4) Can someone explain to me how 96% of blacks vote BHO and not one person talks, or writes, about bias and bigotry in the black community?

    Comment by Robert Rodriguez — 11/5/2008 @ 4:31 pm

    Simple. No one talks about it because there is no bias and bigotry with regards to most black americans voting for Obama. Here’s why. “If blacks who today overwhelmingly support Obama for President are racist, then they should have equally supported Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Carol Mosely-Braun when they ran for president as well. This was not the case. So, black citizens are NOT choosing only to vote for black presidential candidates; this argument is unsubstantiated. In fact, originally, blacks overwhelmingly supported Hillary Clinton, but after Bill Clinton’s questionable remarks in South Carolina, blacks increasingly favored Obama.”

    Da Bombz Diggity (6cc032)

  190. #33 George Orwell was a socialist. He was staunchly against totalitarianism and that is the sentiment Animal Farm stemmed from- but in the end it is endorsing democratic socialism. Obviously you need to re-read it.

    and Ayn Rand is a selfish bitch.

    robyn (2863a4)

  191. There it is the fear, “Lets open the constitution” With out representation or hesitation. Before the constitution was written representatives were told to return to their states and up date their own constitutions and their charters. With this done congress reconvened and represented all cases and feelings towards the federal constitution by example of what was learned at the state level. What they discovered was small federal government was wanted with lots of power to states rights. Go figure. I’m not interested in you telling me how to live.

    DJR (Not DRJ) (7316eb)

  192. Show me a good loser and I’ll show you a real loser. I understand the sentiment but if I lose to my kid do I take the loss to the grave?

    DRJ, based on what I see here being closed minded is what would qualify and prove me to be a Republican.

    In my day, there was acceptance after an election and the understanding that we were Country First.

    Tony (7c6625)

  193. “Obama said there were 57 states in the Union. Biden said FDR went on TV in 1929. And that’s with plenty of “seasoning” in Washington.”

    Sounds like a plan: the dems give more Obama, and the right wing gives us more Palin.

    imdw (32a721)

  194. Bob, Obama has been a consistent supporter of gay rights, sponsoring anti-discrimination in IL, but on gay marraige he has said, “I’m a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.”

    THEOCRACY !!!!!!!!!!!! Separation of church and state !!!!!!!!!!!!eleventy1

    JD (008a90)

  195. JD, what does the term ‘moby’ mean when used as an insult that appears similar to ‘troll’, and what is the origin of that use of the term?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  196. Yes, JD, irony abounds.

    Peccator Dubius (0a6237)

  197. Da Bombz Diggity,

    ROTFLMAO! Spare me!

    1) You set up a FALLACY in order to disprove it.

    2) If you get good grades in PUBLIC schools you usaully get plenty of non-gov.t aid to go to college. Hello ME!!!!!!!!!!

    3) Since when is it a right of the “poor” to go to University on gov’t aid?

    4) Last thing we needs are more University Degrees frankly — we need more trade schools and crafts. I see daily dozens of children wqith usless College degrees who can’t even do algebra but know all 9,876 positions in the kama sutra b/c they took three college courses on it.

    5) Hey, get a job like I did and work “yo ass off” through 4 + 2.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  198. Tony says …

    understanding that we were Country First.

    Who is saying anything different? You obviously did not poke around this site, nor read the links DRJ supplied you.

    You should be able to show us where there was this unity of which you speak after 2000 and 2004.

    JD (008a90)

  199. aphrael,

    “moby” is named after the musician Moby, who advocated that Lefties pretend to be conservatives /Republicans in various online fora (in 2004, iirc). It’s a form of trolling in which someone pretends to be on the Right, but is just so turned off by (the Iraq war, Sarah Palin, etc.)

    Karl (eacece)

  200. aphrael – The artist Moby once condoned Leftist going around claiming to be Republicans, conservatives, etc … and either arguing against conservative principles or arguing in an offensive manner to make actual conservatives look bad. It is like the ying to Glen Greewalds sock puppet’s yang.

    JD (008a90)

  201. In my day, there was acceptance after an election and the understanding that we were Country First.

    Yeah, Tony. And that’s why Gore sued in Florida state court to make himself President. Tony, get outta here!

    Official Internet Data Office (df6254)

  202. Da Bombz Diggity,

    I call Bull Shit!

    If 96% of Whites Voted from McCain, the howels coming from my ‘hood would be heard from sea to shining sea.

    Come on dog, 96% blacks voted BHO over McCain and 90% voted BHO over Hilary because they simply want a Black Guy in. Period, end of story.

    You won, congrats, but spare me the bull shit.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  203. I believe Tony was referring to Richard Nixon in 1960, since that’s what he did after a little round of Kennedy-style ballot-box stuffing.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  204. Da Bombz Diggity,

    And spare me the victim crap.

    Blacks can be President now don’t ya see. Glass celing shattered. Affirmative Action is over.

    Time to start another ‘gimme something for free’ racket. This one is up.

    Hard work, brains, good upbringing conquer all!

    Take Dean Wehrmer’s advice to Belushi.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  205. JD – read my posts… they say to drop the finger pointing. Forget the tit for tat attitude.

    Now I must be a communist because I used the words”united front”… hmmm seems to me Patton used those words.

    Sorry kids, you’ve lost what it means to be a Republican. All I hear, are reasons why not.

    What are you afraid of? Life?

    Get on with it.

    Tony (7c6625)

  206. Tony,

    I’ve studied your last comments and they don’t make sense to me. If you want to be a Republican tonight, feel free but please be consistent. If you want to be a Democrat, that’s also fine. If you want to be both, you’re doing a great job but don’t expect people to engage you much longer.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  207. Robert Rodriguez – Da Bombz Diggity is an infrequent troll, but mendoucheous every single time.

    If 96% of Whites Voted from McCain, the howels coming from my ‘hood would be heard from sea to shining sea.

    The squealing would be deafening. Head splitting.

    For brevity’s sake, would you mind if I used Rob Rod when addressing comments to you?

    JD (008a90)

  208. Bob, the candidate clearly made a difference, but Gore got While blacks voted overwhelmingly Democratic, the 90 percent of the black vote in 2000 and Kerry got 88 percent in 2004.

    Like the growing Hispanic vote, blacks are a group that the Republican party needs to figure out how to appeal to in order to be successful IMO.

    Peccator Dubius (0a6237)

  209. Tony – Explain to us, specifically, how we are supposed to unite under Baracky. Should we just submit our political wills to our liberal overlords? Give up thinking? Exactly what should we do to unite?

    JD (008a90)

  210. Trying again w/o typos. Bob, the candidate clearly made a difference, but Gore got 90 percent of the black vote in 2000 and Kerry got 88 percent in 2004.

    Like the growing Hispanic vote, blacks are a group that the Republican party needs to figure out how to appeal to in order to be successful IMO.

    Peccator Dubius (0a6237)

  211. apharel, I would add to the list of reading (and only because its political and I’ve just been re-reading them) Orianna Fallaci’s post 9/11 The Rage and the Pride and its companion piece, The Force of Reason. Fallaci was nothing if not fierce, determined, and fearless in the face of what she saw as a collective political weakness which paved the way for a prevailing evil enveloping the West.

    Also, I imagine there were a lot of mixed emotions today for you and your friends. While I can’t agree with your sentiments (other than a recognition of the historical significance of a black man in America now the president elect), I do understand. My comment was not in reference to those who still, even in their victorious moment evidence a bitter undertone and anger…which makes me think perhaps the politics have less to do with it than their own personal lives.

    Dana (79a78b)

  212. If liberals were so smart, then why is it that they need to elect someone to help them with their money problems? Also how hard is it to get elected when you are promising to give away free money?

    Comment by BPW — 11/5/2008 @ 4:36 pm

    BPW, liberals are not electing someone to help them with their money problems, nor are they electing someone to give them free money. Liberals think about these UNITED STATES of America not about themselves as you do. They have elected Obama to help America with its money problems that were brought on us by Bush and the republican ideology. There is no free money for 95% of this nation. But for the wealthy 5% there is lots of money. Ask Cheney and Halliburton about no-bid contracts. You want to talk about welfare and free money? Talk about the nearly 1 trillion dollars to the markets that Bush begged Congress to support even after he helped bring about the deregulation that allowed for the collapse of our financial markets. Talk about the Nationalization of the debts of companies in the financial market. Talk about the nationalization of ALL major banks. I could go on and on and on…

    Da Bombz Diggity (6cc032)

  213. “dissent is the highest form of patriotsim”

    Karl,

    How to put it politely?

    I don’t think the Dems really care what the Republicans choose to do over the next 8 years.

    They now have enough political power to rule by fiat.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  214. They now have enough political power to rule by fiat.

    Now there’s that unity we’re all looking forward to under an Obama administration.

    Dana (79a78b)

  215. Like the growing Hispanic vote, blacks are a group that the Republican party needs to figure out how to appeal to in order to be successful IMO.

    I do not think that pandering to a group is a wise strategy. If you went to the Congressional Black Caucus, and agreed to their Top 10 legislative goals, they would still call Republicans racists and still vote for Dems.

    Treating groups as though you can promise them more than the other side infantilizes them. Have ideas. Have the right ideas, and people will join you.

    JD (008a90)

  216. Snuffler,

    I thought you’d be the first to point out the perils of arrogance. Or is Obama exempt? What goes up must come down, and so on and so on and scooby dooby do.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  217. Today I heard David Ramsey say something to this effect “ the supporters of McCain are going to be disappointed because Obama will not fall flat on his face, the supporters of Obama will be disappointed because they will not get free houses, cars and gas”.

    This McCain supporter agrees.

    ML (14488c)

  218. 1. I, a Pencil. (Short)
    2. Economics in One Lesson.

    qwfwq (7132ec)

  219. It seems that there are Republicans of one flavor, JD and DRJ’s kind.

    Everyone else is either a Dem, socialist or commie.

    As a party, we definitely need to regroup if the likes of these two are the majority lol

    Tony (7c6625)

  220. Alas, O! is sure as hell gonna fall flat on his face. If you had any degree of economic literacy, you’d realize it.

    qwfwq (7132ec)

  221. Da Bombz Diggity is funny. The idea that it has any idea how “no bid” contracts work, why they were utilized, or what companies were capable of doing the work required by the contract specs, is laughable.

    Bush begged Congress to support even after he helped bring about the deregulation that allowed for the collapse of our financial markets.

    Name even one de-regulation that Bush enacted that led to this, and explain why.

    Now there’s that unity we’re all looking forward to under an Obama administration

    Submit to your liberal overlords. The lines for the re-education camps form over there.

    JD (008a90)

  222. Fair enough, Tony. You are entitled to your opinion. I just wish I knew what it is.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  223. Vermont, I think Nixon’s graciousness in 1960 was overstated. If they had accurately counted all the votes, most likely neither he nor Kennedy would have had enough electoral votes (269) for victory, since there were about 14 uncommitted electors. Then, the election would have been decided by the Democratic House, electing Kennedy anyway.

    Official Internet Data Office (df6254)

  224. Comment by JD — 11/5/2008 @ 6:13 pm

    Absolutely. And that is an enormous problem the GOP has. Trying to out-liberal the libs and pander only weakens whatever foundation we have. If we could get the conservatism back into the party, find a platform and and stand firm, it will draw on its own strength. If one is pushed to the wall to pander, promise, wheedle and plead, then its a red flag that our position is not solid and our foundation not sure.

    It killed me to see McCain continually attempt this with various groups. It appeared nothing but weak and panicked. And I think voters knew it didn’t pass the sniff test. Reaching across the aisle – after you’ve won an election – is far different than becoming a chameleon.

    Dana (79a78b)

  225. DRJ – How difficult is it to comprehend Country First?

    Tony (7c6625)

  226. Aphrael –
    “The Conservative Mind” – Russell Kirk (already mentioned)
    “The Road To Serfdom” – Frederick Hayek
    “Witness” – Whitaker Chambers
    “Atlas Shrugged” – Ayn Rand (mentioned)
    “Reagan – In His Own Hand” – Kiron Skinner

    Budahmon (ee76c3)

  227. Everyone else is either a Dem, socialist or commie.

    Nope. You do not get to attribute to me that which I do not say. That is not how language works. At least not in the real world.

    Here is a hint. You claim to be hard right wing. However, all of the language you have used, and arguments you have made, are textbook touchy feely leftist pablum. Simply claiming to be hard right wing is – 1) not how people typically describe themselves, and 2) insufficient to prove that you are in fact, hard right wing. All we have to base our assessment on are your words and positions, which fail to support your assertion.

    As a party, we definitely need to regroup if the likes of these two are the majority lol

    I am in no way the majority, but am honored that you included me in such good company as DRJ.

    So, you never answered me. How can we be all unitey with Baracky. What can we do? What should we do?

    JD (008a90)

  228. DRJ – How difficult is it to comprehend Country First?

    Tony – Give us an example of where DRJ or I have not done so. Specifics.

    While you are at it, give us specific examples of how we should get all unitey with the Dems.

    JD (008a90)

  229. Data Office.. Now that I’d never heard. Thanks though.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  230. #186 aphrael:

    Absolutely. But less likely to meet what he’s looking for here.

    Don’t mistake accessibility for shallowness. Parkinson & Sowell (and also Walter Williams, Econ chair at Georgetown) have a rare ability to make the abtruse comprehensible.

    Obversely, Kelso took the opportunity to make the most dynamic explication of the future of Capitalism almost impenetrable! Oddly, his vision of the future of capitalism has been taking place…but may finally be stymied if the Dems are able to nationalize the 401k industry.

    EW1(SG) (0f914b)

  231. Personally Obama being elected has completely destroyed my belief in the voters in the USA. I guarantee 75% of the voters that voted him in voted due to his color and not his qualifications or his policies. I fought in 2 conflicts for our country. Ive seen white, black, and hispanic bleed for this country. I know alot of soldiers are going to have a difficult time following his orders and his Socialist beliefs. If somethinng did happen to him then Id bet my retirement on riots that would make the LA roits after the Rodney King incident look like a slumber party. By him being elected he has effectively split this country in half. He voted on Gay marriages, more free handouts to sorry no good ppl etc…
    Its been a fun 223 years as the United States of America

    Tony (09fef1)

  232. JD – I’m just trying to get across what John McCain said. We lost… can we now show some class and respect as American citizens.

    Stop putting our ideals, perspectives and need to be right first and put Country First.

    I’m not going to tell you or anyone else what you must do to support the country. That’s not my place and you’d poke holes into an indefensible position. All I can address is your attitude.

    Tony (7c6625)

  233. snuffles wrote:

    Karl,

    How to put it politely?

    I don’t think the Dems really care what the Republicans choose to do over the next 8 years.

    They now have enough political power to rule by fiat.

    Um, not w/o 60 Senate seats.

    But thanks for proving my point about the hypocrisy of the Left viz dissent.

    Karl (eacece)

  234. #216 Dana: [responding to this troll:]

    They now have enough political power to rule by fiat.

    Now there’s that unity we’re all looking forward to under an Obama administration.

    Funny that the troll would choose “fiat,” which for some reason makes me think of Il Duce whose “unity” government was inspired by the strength of sticks bundled together into a faggot (‘fascisti.’)

    Any wonder that I am less than ecstatic about an O!bama Presidency?

    EW1(SG) (0f914b)

  235. Tony – You have intentionally not read any of the other content around here, right? Because if you had, you would have seen Patterico and DRJ being incredibly gracious to our President-elect, some have argued even too gracious. You would have seen that I upraided a couple of friends for their position that Baracky will not be their President.

    Stop putting our ideals, perspectives and need to be right first and put Country First.

    Bullshit. McCain did not call for that, and if he did, he is a fool. Just because Baracky won does not mean we should submit our wills to Baracky.

    Are there 2 Tony’s ?! 233 and 234 are both signed Tony, but that is the extent of their similarity.

    JD (008a90)

  236. Karl,

    The Senate Republicans can only filibuster whatever Harry Reid chooses to bring up in the Senate.

    W. has given Obama much more unchecked power than any of his predecessors.

    There’s not much he need Congressional approval for.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  237. Thanks for giving me an outlet over the past few weeks. I think I am done. Let’s hope for all our sakes that the Dem cleans up after this Bush like the last one, eh? Cheers!

    truthnjustice (c313be)

  238. 234:

    Stop putting our ideals, perspectives and need to be right first and put Country First.

    Uh, since my ideals, perspectives and need to be “right” (correct, anyway) are based on the founding principles of this country…I don’t think it particularly wise to cast them aside in an attempt to put “Country First.”

    Sounds awfully like the calls to support the next 5 year plan that some governments of the last century were constantly making upon their citizens, if you ask me.

    EW1(SG) (0f914b)

  239. sniffles is really a moron. 238 is absolutely idiotic, at a very base level.

    Followed shortly thereafter by 239.

    EW1 – It will not define what it is we are supposed to do to be all unitey. But, it is hard right wing. It typed that, so it must be true.

    JD (008a90)

  240. #241 JD:

    But, it is hard right wing.

    Right.

    And, why yes, that is gunpowder that you smell…stopped by the range on the way home…

    Just want to continue exercising that right, you know. Might not be as important as the right to marry my brother or something, but I’m rather fond of it.

    ;)

    EW1(SG) (0f914b)

  241. Da Bombz Diggity is funny. The idea that it has any idea how “no bid” contracts work, why they were utilized, or what companies were capable of doing the work required by the contract specs, is laughable.

    Bush begged Congress to support even after he helped bring about the deregulation that allowed for the collapse of our financial markets.

    Name even one de-regulation that Bush enacted that led to this, and explain why.

    Now there’s that unity we’re all looking forward to under an Obama administration

    Submit to your liberal overlords. The lines for the re-education camps form over there.

    Comment by JD — 11/5/2008 @ 6:18 pm

    Okay. “October 8, 2003: Bush administration objected to a proposal to have an independent regulator of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac be an independent unit of Treasury, much like financial regulators housed in the agency that oversee banks and thrifts. The Bush administration also objected to a proposal to have the Department of Housing and Urban Development have oversight over the companies’ business activities. The independence provision has broad support from committee Democrats and Republicans. The HUD provision was pushed mostly by Democrats but had been accepted by Oxley and Baker as a compromise needed to move the bill forward. [Washington Post, 10/8/03]”

    Visit the link. There’s more where that came from with references. For example, the reference to the above quote from the zibb website is from this Washington Post story.

    Da Bombz Diggity (6cc032)

  242. ________________________________________

    but she nevertheless didn’t vote because she knew there was no real difference between Republicans and Democrats,

    That kind of comment only makes sense if it’s coming from an ultra-conservative or ultra-liberal. Or certainly someone who’s dealing with the one-sided politics found in many large urban areas, in which the choice often comes down to a liberal versus a flat-out leftist.

    I guess the flip version of that would be a radical living in some suburb, where the choice comes down to someone like Joe Lieberman (or, to a lesser degree, Bill Clinton) or Sarah Palin.

    Mark (411533)

  243. Da Bombz Diggity – You answered a question I did not ask. I asked for a specific de-regulation and you provided a link to a highly biased site that outlines policy differences between Oxley, Dodd, and the White House. Did you learn to link from Gren Gleeeeeenwald?

    JD (008a90)

  244. As Dana pointed out, the Dems do not even seem to be able to enjoy their historic win without being lying mendoucheous asshats.

    JD (008a90)

  245. Well, to be fair, Dana was a lot nicer in the way she said it.

    JD (008a90)

  246. I didn’t like either candidate. But, when I woke up this morning and read about Russia, I felt like America had just voted in a 21st century president who now gets to deal with Cold War Era-like leaders who will NOT negotiate for more democratic policies within their country. They have ingrained ideologies (and democracy is not it), whether religious and political, and they tow the hard line. Russia, today, announced they are putting their missiles near the Polish border. They chose today to announce this when they could have done this earlier (since it was planned already). Why announce this today of all days? Because they can sense our new leader’s weaknesses. I wonder if this announcement would have been made had McCain won? Obama is great at talking, but talking and negotiation will only protect us so much (see 9/11). With all of Bush’s failures, he can at least SEE this. As, I believe, McCain. I would rather have someone who will press that shiny red button before Iran, China, North Korea, or Russia, or any hostile nation. Unfortunately, I feel Obama will still be talking when/if this happens. He better get tough, and quickly, or else I see even more terrorism and nuclear threat in our future.

    Tiffany (c613c6)

  247. Look JD, believe what you want, but even at the GOP convention all they touted was their support for deregulation, until it was evident that the markets were collapsing. Ignorance is bliss.

    Da Bombz Diggity (6cc032)

  248. saw the communist flag and tees shirts at the obama celebration….not unexpectedly…and NOT A SINGLE PERSON AROUND OBJECTED OR TRIED TO TAKE IT DOWN>>..not unexpectedly either. He has succeeded in what Clinton started, politics of class warfare and personal destruction….I USED TO be a Dem/Independent…fought for the impeachment of Nixon. If the guy does what he says he would, he will irreparably break the USA into unreconcilable positions….buy your guns and ammo now seems to be occuring throughout the country….many stores are OUT OF GUNS….what does this portend? I am disgusted with the politicians on both sides, wedge issues, avoidance of personal responsibility, and fixed gerrymandered districts..freedom is an illusion these days…

    steve Loudon, TN (e07278)

  249. _____________________________________

    Like the growing Hispanic vote, blacks are a group that the Republican party needs to figure out how to appeal to in order to be successful IMO.

    A preference for nonsensical liberalism is so pervasive in black America, and in a large portion of the Latino community too, that the only way for a non-liberal political organization (such as the Republicans) to accomodate such people is to, in effect, become as foolishly liberal as they are.


    The Black Community’s Self-Destructive Embrace of Liberalism

    by Kevin Martin

    By embracing liberalism, black America became a broken shell of its former greatness. Miseducation, black-on-black crime, economic injustice, abortion, and the curse of corrupt and self-serving community leaders – the unhealthy relationship between blacks and liberalism has caused these problems to fester and remain largely unaddressed.

    Founders of racist groups like the Ku Klux Klan would surely marvel at how many in the black community now welcome inequity and virtual segregation, perhaps realizing that their violent intimidation tactics weren’t necessary after all. By contrast, our ancestors, who were brought here by force and toiled in bondage, undoubtedly would be beside themselves with grief over this betrayal of their suffering. Equally appalled would be those who worked hard, risked, and sometimes lost their lives to ensure that legal discrimination, also known as “Jim Crow,” was forever abolished.

    Back then, the fight was for individual equality and bringing America together as a whole. Today, pursuing advancement and assimilation earns one the derogatory accusation of “acting white.”

    Too many of us are now content to park our children in failing government schools, and we seem too self-absorbed chasing the high-life – “bling,” overpriced and outlandishly stocked cribs and Lexuses and other expensive cars and SUVs purchased with inequitable loans – to worry about them. All this time, the blood, sweat, and tears of our angry children flow nightly in the streets.

    How can we claim to believe, as the long-used slogan of the United Negro College Fund goes, that “a mind is a terrible thing to waste,” when our children are shackled to schools that are often little more than a government-run babysitting service? While our kids fall further behind, we eagerly support the politicians and policies that only promise to throw money at the problem and demand no accountability.

    Along the same lines, how have liberal law enforcement policies helped defeat the scourge of black-on-black crime? Our neighborhoods are becoming war zones, yet police are seen more as objects of scorn and ridicule than respect and order.

    We also seem largely unable and sometimes even unwilling to put our financial affairs in order and do what it takes to start businesses and improve our economic health. As a result, we end up working for – and resenting – people of other races with ambition who come to our neighborhoods and set up shop.

    …All this time, we never seem to hold liberal black leaders to any level of accountability. We go along with their antics and make excuses for their failures and immoral behavior. They often retain power through threats and smear those who disagree with their politics. They keep the majority of us in line by claiming to fight for social and economic justice but use their race as a tool to garner personal wealth through shakedowns, while leaving our community to wallow in the self-pity and anger they helped foster.

    Liberalism is not just a problem for black America. Its failure can be seen by visiting any Martin Luther King Street, Avenue, or Boulevard. White America has the financial wherewithal and ambition to choose to escape it. Black Americans, due to long-term abuse by liberal policies, don’t always have that option. That’s why black America as a whole needs to wake up and shake off the liberal chains that bind us.

    Mark (411533)

  250. Look JD, believe what you want

    This has nothing to do with what I believe. I asked you a question, and you gave an answer to some other question, not asked of you.

    even at the GOP convention all they touted was their support for deregulation

    They were calling for deregulation of the mortgage industry at the GOP convention? It should be easy for you to source that assertion.

    Steve in TN – We will survive. America is greater that Baracky’s policies are bad.

    JD (008a90)

  251. Steve in TN – We will survive. America is greater than Baracky’s policies are bad.

    JD (008a90)

  252. Tony,

    Some might view “Country First” as meaning Republicans should sit down and shut up while the Democrats are in charge. Others may think public protests and boycotts are appropriate. I see it as a time to organize and restore the values of my Party by talking to other Americans and pointing out where I think Democrats are wrong.

    I’m not sure what you mean by “Country First.” It could be one of these or it could be something else entirely, but I’m open to your point of view. If you’ve already elaborated on your position and I missed it, please point me to the comment time/date or number.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  253. Like the growing Hispanic vote, blacks are a group that the Republican party needs to figure out how to appeal to in order to be successful IMO. Comment by Peccator Dubius — 11/5/2008 @ 6:07 pm

    But if a high number of people in black America gravitate towards simpleminded liberalism, time and time again, and if a large majority of the Latino community is no different, than any non-leftist political organization (such as the Repubican Party), in order to curry favor among large percentages of black and Latino voters would have to become as liberal as they are.

    Even more so because of the following comments, following such a strategy would be ridiculous.


    The Black Community’s Self-Destructive Embrace of Liberalism

    by Kevin Martin

    By embracing liberalism, black America became a broken shell of its former greatness. Miseducation, black-on-black crime, economic injustice, abortion, and the curse of corrupt and self-serving community leaders – the unhealthy relationship between blacks and liberalism has caused these problems to fester and remain largely unaddressed.

    Back [in the era of Jim Crow laws], the fight was for individual equality and bringing America together as a whole. Today, pursuing advancement and assimilation earns one the derogatory accusation of “acting white.”

    Too many of us are now content to park our children in failing government schools, and we seem too self-absorbed chasing the high-life – “bling,” overpriced and outlandishly stocked cribs and Lexuses and other expensive cars and SUVs purchased with inequitable loans – to worry about them. All this time, the blood, sweat, and tears of our angry children flow nightly in the streets.

    How can we claim to believe, as the long-used slogan of the United Negro College Fund goes, that “a mind is a terrible thing to waste,” when our children are shackled to schools that are often little more than a government-run babysitting service? While our kids fall further behind, we eagerly support the politicians and policies that only promise to throw money at the problem and demand no accountability.

    Along the same lines, how have liberal law enforcement policies helped defeat the scourge of black-on-black crime? Our neighborhoods are becoming war zones, yet police are seen more as objects of scorn and ridicule than respect and order.

    We also seem largely unable and sometimes even unwilling to put our financial affairs in order and do what it takes to start businesses and improve our economic health. As a result, we end up working for – and resenting – people of other races with ambition who come to our neighborhoods and set up shop.

    …All this time, we never seem to hold liberal black leaders to any level of accountability. We go along with their antics and make excuses for their failures and immoral behavior. They often retain power through threats and smear those who disagree with their politics. They keep the majority of us in line by claiming to fight for social and economic justice but use their race as a tool to garner personal wealth through shakedowns, while leaving our community to wallow in the self-pity and anger they helped foster.

    Mark (411533)

  254. Obama mistakes begin. 1st Hire Rahm Emanuel.

    His father, the Jerusalem-born Benjamin M. Emanuel, is a pediatrician and was a member of the Irgun, a militant Zionist group active during the British Mandate of Palestine.

    How does Obama expect to get some credibilty in a MidEast Peace Process hiring Emanuel?? He gets an F in Diplomacy…

    Dennis D (ae900a)

  255. Dennis D – His father has nothing to do with Rahm being a bad choice. For a candidate that ran as a post-partisan hopey changey platform, he chose to head his Administration one of the biggest attack dogs in Congress, an absolute rabid partisan, a fellow Chicago machine guy. Nothing new or hopey or changey or post-partisan or unitey about that.

    JD (008a90)

  256. Comment by EW1(SG) — 11/5/2008 @ 6:29 pm

    Walter Williams is at George Mason University, not Georgetown.

    Isn’t it interesting that the two most widely read, in the popular media, conservative economists, Sowell and Williams, are Black?

    Another Drew (579482)

  257. #257 Another Drew:

    Williams is at George Mason

    I knew that. Really! ;)

    (And in fact, although Mrs. EW1 wants to matriculate in a particular program at GMU unrelated to Dr. Williams curricula, she is nevertheless very pleased with herself for having corresponded with him.)

    Can’t call that kind of mistake a typo, or even a slip of the tongue…early onset? Oh well. At least I’m having fun.

    EW1(SG) (0f914b)

  258. Our hosts should aim for more HuffPo links. Good Allah, the trolls from there are mendoucheous.

    JD (008a90)

  259. Well, there are the people who think that blacks are an inferior race. And there are fundamentalists who believe that the USA should be a christian theocracy with the christian bible as the governing word of law. They believed that every political leader going forward would bring the country closer to that ideal state of christian theocracy. Some felt that this was the path to the “end of days” and the “rapture”.

    Fortunately, the majority of voters with a college education voted for a different government.

    I’m not saying that there are no fundamentalists or racists who do not have a college degree. They just don’t appear to be in the majority in this election. There appears to be a new class dynamic defining the US electorate. The values of the educated verses the non-educated or those who fear or reject education. Sarah Palin appears to be the lightening rod for the latter. Don’t confuse me with all those intellectual, elitist snares like what publications do I read or what Supreme Court rulings have shaped my views. I know what my god wants me to do and I know that’s what my people want me to make the law of the land.

    The problem with that is that Sarah’s god is not the god for all Americans and we are not all “Sarah’s People”

    The thing is that Adams, Franklin and Jefferson had both faith and razor sharp intellectual and philosophical minds. A theocracy is not the nation that they built. The concept of a theocracy is, at its core, un-American by definition.

    Ironically it is fundamentalist theocracy (as opposed to fascism or communism) which poses the greatest threat to the US both from within and internationally.

    I hope that all true Americans will fight to the bitter end to keep our free nation from devolving into a fundamentalist theocracy.

    Marc (d9d4e8)

  260. Marc…I hope that all true Americans will fight to the bitter end to keep our free nation from devolving into a fundamentalist theocracy.

    That’s good, and most acceptable to I believe 99.9% of regular commenters here. Then can we get your true American spirit on board with keeping our free nation from devolving into a Euro style socialistic repressive, income confiscating, free speech hating, bureaucratic bullying, individual freedom restricting statist operation?

    allan (838083)

  261. Conservatism used to stand for deliberation, nuance and wisdom. Now it is owned by Christian zealots, deregulation fundamentalists, populists, and politicians who think that holding on to power is worth every price, and the constitution can be thread upon whenever it is convenient. America should be a country of hope and progress, not a backwards bully that will loathed by even it’s close allies. I dearly hope that the Republicans clear their party up, get rid of the crazies and make it an intelligent party again, so that Americans can choose on basis of ideology again.

    Eelco (959684)

  262. “our free nation from devolving into a Euro style socialistic repressive, income confiscating, free speech hating, bureaucratic bullying, individual freedom restricting statist operation”

    Here are some facts for you, comparing Holland (where I grew up) with the US:
    * In 2007 Holland had a slightly larger BNP per capita than the US, despite all the ‘socialist’ goodies like universal health care, progressive taxes, 26 vacation days, etc.
    * Never in my life has anyone scolded me in Holland for being conservative, neither have I scolded anyone for being leftish. Free speech and democracy means you listen to each other, learn or convince in a decent manner and work together.
    * The US government knows more about me than the Dutch government does, as my privacy is better protected in Holland.
    * Abortion and teen pregnancy rates are three times as high in the US as in Holland
    * Drug abuse is about twice as high in the US, and US kids start younger abusing it.
    * Violent crime…. well, it’s national front page news in Holland when there has been a shooting somewhere…
    * You can be for or against a war in Holland without getting beaten up.

    Etc, etc. That’s not to say life is better here or there, it is just different with it’s own tradeoffs. But that Euro bashing, that idea that Americans are the only free people in the world (in fact, short-sighted Europeans think Americans are all slaves of their money and don’t know how to enjoy life), the idea that everything is black and white, good versus evil, without nuance is just pathetic.

    Eelco (959684)

  263. @57

    Exactly!

    Eelco (959684)

  264. don’t want to inject my opinion into a thread discussing what Republicans stand for, because that’s not something a good liberal should be doing.

    But, at the risk of thread-jacking, I do have a perhaps somewhat on-topic question: my husband is looking for books – thoughtful, reasoned writings about political and economic philosophy, rather than pop politics stuff – that will explain to him the conservative worldview. Having grown up in the bay area, he doesn’t feel like he’s been exposed to it in anything other than a derisory secondhand way.

    Can any of you guys recommend anything for him?

    Comment by aphrael — 11/5/2008 @ 1:57 pm

    Tell him to try the Holy Bible.

    peedoffamerican (389cf6)

  265. Also the U.S Constitution as written.

    peedoffamerican (389cf6)

  266. Then maybe the Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers for a start. All of them are conservative documents.

    peedoffamerican (389cf6)

  267. Dear God,

    Thank you for giving our nation this great victory! Our nation deserves a break after the eight long dark, destructive years of the Bush Administration.

    I witnessed a sea of “mostly old white people” at the McCain rallies. The real voices of the “majority” of the American people spoke loud and clear on November 4, 2008, we are tired of your old tired ideas and old tired values. It simply got old…get it? 8 years of a war that should have never been, Bush administration incompetence, fear mongering and a demoralization of our people. Real progress and healthy change is long past due. Thank you again God and please God…bless America.

    milo madder (dd0e0e)

  268. GOP conservatives can win elections but they can’t govern. Obama will be one of the greatest presidents the country has ever experienced.

    reg (c77f89)

  269. Marc @ 261 – Thanks for the drivel. Notice folks, how he danced around calling everyone racist religious zealots while essentially doing just that. Followed by his pleas for civility.

    Other than in your fevered mind, has anyone proposed a fundamentalist theocracy, or did you just feel like buggering a strawman?

    milo and reg and just blathering idiots.

    JD (008a90)

  270. Eelco – How is that Muslim assimilation thingie going over there? Submit yet?

    JD (008a90)

  271. “politics of class warfare and personal destruction”

    Strange I keep hearing from repubs that tax credits are just more welfare for the lazy. So who is starting class warfare?

    Patrick (08bee7)

  272. “name even one deregulation”

    Lets see rollback of endangered species act… pollution laws. Thats just two…

    Patrick (08bee7)

  273. Patrick – Why must your type be so dishonest? I asked the troll to name even one deregulation that President Bush supported and enacted that caused the credit crisis we are currently experiencing.

    And, it is you and yours that engage in class warfare, demonizing the actual American taxpayer every election cycle.

    JD (008a90)

  274. I’m a centrist Republican. But since how far back has the party actually been about small, non-interventionist government when you consider the massive move towards social control that’s been a party staple since the rise of the evangelical far right? I’m for gun rights, I grew up with guns and I own firearms, but I don’t think my neighbor should be able to own a tank, let alone an automatic. I think most reasonable people are for SOME limits, especially in high crime areas where the local govt. needs to be able to excercise options. I’m for fiscal conservatism, but how is it fiscally conservative to allow so much deregulation that a relatively small number of individuals can DESTROY companies and walk away with millions. The GOP has become the party of, not even the wealthy, but the MEGA rich, and bolsters their numbers with flat-tax nuts, religous kooks, and other completely unreasonable people. The problem is, the mainstay of the party, true small government, fiscal conservatives are getting SICK of it. The last election showed it. McCaine is a great republican, but the selection of Palin was a clear signal that the GOP does not intend to correct their ill fated course. True conservatives need to retake control of the party.

    Dennis (cd0645)

  275. Oh, as far as social control, Im talking about getting involved in the same sex marriage issue. True small govt. proponents know that this falls under the banner of NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

    Dennis (cd0645)

  276. “I think Obama will govern from the far left instead of the center.”

    Then you have been selectively listening to the wrong people. Barack Obama’s doctrine has been very clearly stated: he wants to eliminate the “red state vs blue state” polarizing political mentality that has brought this nation to the brink of ruin. He wants to see the lables “liberal” and “conservative” become relics of a divisive era in our history. Obama wants to go beyond bipartisanism and build a political base that embraces the best idea that both parties have to offer.

    I am an independant who has voted Repbulcian many times. I appreciate their fiscal conservatism and that they have often checked the ill-considered excesses of the Democrats. I have, however, abandoned the GOP until it rids itself of the neo-Nazi wing that has subverted the party to forward a narrow agenda that serves only an elite few at the expense of all. I’m sick of them pandering to the most ignorant of our citizens and then screwing these benighted souls. This change is coming to the GOP. Moderate voices in the party are saying enough! They want their party back. In reality, Barack Obama will prove to be the best thing that has happened to the GOP in decades. He will help them remember themselves and reject the Goldwater legacy.

    Reality (8ee74d)

  277. the massive move towards social control that’s been a party staple since the rise of the evangelical far right?

    It should be pretty simple for you to demonstrate how our most recent Presidential candidate embodied this movement of which you speak.

    I’m for gun rights, I grew up with guns and I own firearms, but I don’t think my neighbor should be able to own a tank, let alone an automatic. I think most reasonable people are for SOME limits, especially in high crime areas where the local govt. needs to be able to excercise options.

    So much crap, in 2 short sentences. First, who is advocating owning a tank? Second, wouldn’t it be cool to be able to afford to do so, but I digress. So, people that do not agree with your limits are unreasonable? Fuck the Constitution and that individual right to bear arms as recently stated in Heller. Maybe high crime areas would be better served with more of the populace being armed, rather than only the criminals. I know, silly thought.

    I’m for fiscal conservatism, but how is it fiscally conservative to allow so much deregulation that a relatively small number of individuals can DESTROY companies and walk away with millions. The GOP has become the party of, not even the wealthy, but the MEGA rich, and bolsters their numbers with flat-tax nuts, religous kooks, and other completely unreasonable people.

    The GOP lost its way on fiscal conservatism. You failed to make the connection as to how increased regulation would improve fiscal conservatism, and then just jumped right into a standard HuffPo rant. I am beginning to doubt this centrist Republican claim.

    McCaine is a great republican, but the selection of Palin was a clear signal that the GOP does not intend to correct their ill fated course. True conservatives need to retake control of the party.

    If you are going to troll, at least have the decency to spell his damn name right. John McCain is a great American, he was not and is not a great Republican. He certainly has not been a true conservative, and judging from the rest of your post, the only true conservatives are those that act like Democrats. Thanks, but no thanks, for the advise.

    I’m a centrist Republican.

    They always lead with the chin, don’t they?

    JD (008a90)

  278. JD – This thread turned into a true “Moronic Convergence” with all the new and repeat progressive visitors.

    I’m sorry I wasn’t around to participate more. I enjoy the fake conservatives such as Tony.

    I think race was a huge story in the election and no one is going near it. The polling showed race was a non issue for Republicans, but was important for Democrats. I agree with Geraldine Ferraro. Baracky would have had no chance to win if he were not black. The shady associations, lack of accomplishments, and far left views just made him John Edwards with a tan. Edwards would have gotten blown out against McCain in my opinion. White liberal guilt came through for Obama.

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  279. Reality – Congrats on puking back out a Barack stump speech. However, what your post lacks is any evidence whatsoever that Baracky intends to actually be in the political middle, or has any experience, or intention, of actually working with the other side of the aisle.

    Obama wants to go beyond bipartisanism and build a political base that embraces the best idea that both parties have to offer.

    Pure unadulterated pablum.

    I am an independant who has voted Repbulcian many times.

    This is a variation of the same theme. Watch for it. Here it comes.

    I have, however, abandoned the GOP until it rids itself of the neo-Nazi wing that has subverted the party to forward a narrow agenda that serves only an elite few at the expense of all. I’m sick of them pandering to the most ignorant of our citizens and then screwing these benighted souls.

    It is as predictable as the sun rising.

    JD (008a90)

  280. This thread turned into a true “Moronic Convergence” with all the new and repeat progressive visitors.

    Daley – DRJ said somewhere above that we were getting a lot of visitors from HuffPo, from an article where (SHOCKA) they aggressively lied about Patterico’s reaction to Barcky’s win.

    JD (008a90)

  281. reg, it would be helpful if you articulate why Obama will be a good president (“one of the greatest presidents“). Does his Senate record show that? Or his private sector work? His efforts with the Annenberg project shows a huge flop to the tune of $150 million.

    Even Obama doesn’t believe he’ll make a great president: He and his crew sealed off every record, every paper that would expose his past, rather than illuminate the brightness of our collective future.

    I believe he removed himself from the Illinois state bar as well, as a safety measure.

    Hardcore supporters at this site have been asked what it is Obama will ‘do.’ No one can answer.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  282. “Obama wants to go beyond bipartisanism and build a political base that embraces the best idea that both parties have to offer.”

    Reality – The above sounds great, but the only actual evidence we have of Obama listening to different sides is anecdotes from law school. When he had the opportunity to step up and endorse reform in Chicago politics he took his usual cowardly route and endorsed machine candidates.

    Is bipartisanship and best practices uniting behind card check so that potential union members are denied the rights to secret ballots?

    Is bipartisanship and unity rallying behind reimplementation of the Fairness Doctrine to silence the voices of the 57 million people who didn’t vote for Barack?

    I think you can see how I’m struggling with your contention that Barack will be bipartisan.

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  283. Anyone who wanted a president other than Barack Obama isn’t worried he’ll ‘fall flat on his face’ (see upthread). It’s that he’ll successfully implement the radical politics and theology that he tried so hard to wipe from his record. (Enough remains, despite the efforts of the media.) Socialism + racism = parceling out benefits for his preferred group of races and religions. (/Soros)

    We hope(!) he won’t lead as his heavily censored resume indicates. I’m not holding my breath. I’m completely aware that George Soros is president and Barry Obama is serving as PR man and figure-head. Hard to see ANYTHING on his resume that shows otherwise.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  284. When he had the opportunity to step up and endorse reform in Chicago politics he took his usual cowardly route and endorsed machine candidates.

    Absolutely; the Strogers. Barack Obama, not the reformer. Just a power broker. For himself.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  285. What our math challenged Obama-bots fail to realize is that Obama spent $774 million dollars more than the McCain not including the free nightly campaigning for Obama on NBC, MSNBC, CNN and CBS.

    The net result was only 10 million more votes than McCain. Over 1 trillion dollars in propaganda and Barry still stumbled across the finish line. There was not a swell of new voters as predicted.

    McCain lost because conservatives despise him nearly as much as they despise Pelosi and the Commu-crats. It is time for the conservatives to rid the Republicans of RINOs who think that being bi-partisanship is more important than representing the people who elected them. Only Republicans are ever called to be bi-partisan and you will never hear that term during the Obama\Pelosi\Reid leadership. It is only used by the Democrats and their media to block conservatives power. And our idiot RINOs fall for it every time. The first to go should be my Congressman, Lindsay Graham, there needs to be a push here to force him to either represent the interest of conservative SC or be thrown out!

    So to the Obama-morons, let me save you three years:

    1) Don’t take raise taxes
    2) Don’t give more free money who haven’t earned it. Voting Democrat is NOT earning it.
    3) Skyrocketing energy prices and unemployment rates are not the result of Barry “not looking like the other men on the dollar bill”. Racism is to blame.
    4) Please don’t let Barry wear a red cardigan when he gives his “malaise” speech in two years blasting the expectations of Americans and asking them to turn the thermostat down to 50 and only drive on alternate days.

    My mother was correct when she said that apparently every new generation has to actually experience the desolation of liberal policies to fully appreciate conservativism. We had Carter and 40 years later comes Obama.

    So Obama-bots enjoy 10% unemployment and $8 a gallon gasoline. I was a know-nothing liberal for a little while but Carter cured us and a large portiion of these young people will hate liberalism just as much after a short period under the Chicago Dope.

    LogicalSC (742bd0)

  286. To believe all these comments you must accept the premise that the CIA is in on it. That Obama was not vetted and that the secret service is ading a terrorist!

    whatChange (21514d)

  287. The Mornoic Convergence continues with #288.

    JD (008a90)

  288. 289. Elitist attempt at sarcasm or spell check failure? .289 <>

    “A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.

    whatChange (6307e7)

  289. Typo, the Moronic Convergence is starting to wear off on everyone else.

    you must accept the premise that the CIA is in on it.

    What comments indicate that, and why must they be in on it.

    That Obama was not vetted and that the secret service is ading a terrorist!

    Obama was not vetted. That is a fact.

    How you come to the conclusion that the Secret Service is ading (Elitist attempt at sarcasm or spell check failure? ) a terrorist?

    JD (008a90)

  290. And Palin was vetted?

    whatChange (6307e7)

  291. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting in 279, JD.

    I now denounce you.

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  292. I feel sympathy for those who are unable to take any pride or pleasure in what happened last Tuesday night. If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist. There is no other explanation for some of the anger I’m reading in this blog. The idea that a presidential candidate wasn’t properly “vetted”? Ignorance beyond belief. The only person who wasn’t vetted is the McCain chose as his running-mate. All other candidates had gone through numerous elections, local, state and national. We’ve had a president of substandard intellect for the last 8 years, who can’t even eat a pretzel without nearly choking to death. We will now have a president of superior intellect who knows the Constitution inside and out, and is clearly is the greatest communicators to hold that office since Ronald Reagan. FORGET all this “liberal” crap. Obama is a pragmatist. He’ll do what’s right, not necessarily what’s “left”.

    JohnRJ08 (e866bd)

  293. Most people like the Republican Party that was the presidency of Bush, Sr. Economic conservatism.

    People don’t want the neo-conservatism of Bush, Jr. Too much religion and ‘follow me’ patriotism. They don’t want social issues to bother them. Reality matters more. Social questions can be addressed in each family’s individual household, not on the national level.

    Obama was willing to question where our country was going. If McCain’s folks hadn’t realized from the outporing of support for Obama and then stole Obama’s slogan they would have just ran on the “Our country is great. We’re the best. We need the status quo” platform.
    They have no ideas. They don’t care about evangelicals. They care about their vote, so they make themselves the pro-life party. Yet their followers seem prone to fight wars when possible. This seems to be the backbone of their support. They need to take the moral stand where it matters: undue imprisonment, stand up against torture, etc. They pick and choose and make it obvious that the selectively pick their platform in order to win votes, not make over-reaching changes in order to change their party’s ideas. If Barack is able to do better than keeping our country afloat then the Republican, or at the least the neo-conservative Brand is in a dire situation. Woo hoo!

    Matt (96f134)

  294. #292 – Yes, she was. But, I see you have fled from your prior points with the typical “Look, over there. Something shiny” style of arguement we have come to expect from the trolls.

    then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.

    Fuck off. This idea that the only reason one might not be pleased with electing a quasi-socialist to the White House is because of racism is pure unadulterated BS.

    There is no other explanation for some of the anger I’m reading in this blog

    That you are unable to create a thought beyond yelling RACIST says more about your intellectual capacity than you would like to consider.

    The idea that a presidential candidate wasn’t properly “vetted”? Ignorance beyond belief. The only person who wasn’t vetted is the McCain chose as his running-mate. All other candidates had gone through numerous elections, local, state and national.

    Gov. Palin has gone through elections as well, but I guess Mayor and Governor do not count in your book.

    We will now have a president of superior intellect who knows the Constitution inside and out,

    He believes healthcare is a Right, but gun ownership is not. To me, that displays a fundamental lack of knowledge about the Constitution.

    I will not bother with the rest of your petty vile little rant. It is not based in reality, and nothing will change your addled little mind.

    Folks, click on over to this asshat’s blog, and read about how McCain is suffering from PTSD, and this science fiction writer’s other flights of fancy. It is enlightening.

    JD (008a90)

  295. Matt – Your warped view of conservatism exists only in your head, and the melons of your fellow travelers.

    JD (008a90)

  296. We’re all in for a rude awakening once Obama and his leftist illuminati ideals get to the White House and he doesn’t have to worry about saying the right things to get votes. We’ll soon see how many of his campaign promises he follows through with.

    Jeff (7082b1)

  297. Keep putting the wall up, divide the nation when it needs moderation most. You’ve succeeded in bankrupting and alienating the majority of our country and shaming us to the rest of the world over the last 8 years and wonder how Reps lost?

    DEO (3817fb)

  298. This flow of idiocy, or as daley called it, the Moronic Convergence, is endless.

    JD (008a90)

  299. I feel sympathy for those who are unable to take any pride or pleasure in what happened last Tuesday night.

    Feel what you want but don’t use too much “manna” at my expense. I didn’t take much pride at all the communist flags, Ché imagery or seeing Oprah in a blank, trance-like state.

    If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.

    Kindly take this opportunity to go fuck yourself. Your “thought” that if we weren’t moved, we are racist is below contempt.

    There is no other explanation for some of the anger I’m reading in this blog.

    I don’t see a whole lot of anger here. I see thoughtful reflection and the continuing persecution of idiotic trolls like yourself who offer nothing to the conversation but pathetic race-baiting, gloating and non-sequiturs.

    There are several people of opposing ideology here who manage to have thoughtful conversations and engage on an intellectual level. We appreciate their contributions.

    Yours, natch.

    The idea that a presidential candidate wasn’t properly “vetted”? Ignorance beyond belief.

    Yes, by you.

    The only person who wasn’t vetted is the McCain chose as his running-mate. All other candidates had gone through numerous elections, local, state and national.

    Yes, that’s about all that Obama has ever accomplished and you say it like it’s a good thing.

    We’ve had a president of substandard intellect for the last 8 years,

    You mean the guy whose intelligence was measured as being higher than John “intellectual” Kerry’s?

    Did we ever see Barack Obama’s college transcripts?

    who can’t even eat a pretzel without nearly choking to death.

    Eating pretzels = an intelligence test. I see.

    We will now have a president of superior intellect

    Intellect alone isn’t the key to running the country. I’d say executive experience is far more important and Obama hasn’t proven that he has any of that.

    who knows the Constitution inside and out, and is clearly is the greatest communicators to hold that office since Ronald Reagan.

    He is good at communicating, yes.

    FORGET all this “liberal” crap.

    No thanks.

    Obama is a pragmatist. He’ll do what’s right, not necessarily what’s “left”.

    Comment by JohnRJ08 — 11/6/2008 @ 7:46 am

    Your “thought” is funny and sad like a black velvet painting of a sad clown.

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  300. If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.

    The unhinged Troll must have missed the unfortunate scenes at the WH rally, where the lovely ANSWER proletariat unfurled their nasty banner, for all to see:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCMcv1VF4uQ&eurl=http://www.powerlineblog.com/

    But of course, we’re the intolerant ones, the racists – love live the revolution!

    Dmac (e30284)

  301. CANT BELIEVE YOU REPUBLICANS IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ITS ABOUT THE UNITED STATE OF AMERICA .

    RICHARD MAIGNAN (b4198f)

  302. And the Highlights for Children series on political thought continues with another post from Dick. Thank you for your contribution, Dick.

    Dmac (e30284)


  303. UNITED STATE OF AMERICA

    That the trolls like you would desire one State, where dissent would not be tolerated, all in Unity with Baracky is no surprise.

    JD (008a90)

  304. STATES

    It is the United States of America, douchebag.

    JD (008a90)

  305. Comment by JD — 11/6/2008 @ 8:45 am

    They just completely resent that “Republic” thing.

    Can’t have peasants out in the hinterlands not taking direction from the Supreme Soviet in DC, can we?

    Another Drew (57deb8)

  306. AD – This whole thread has been surreal.

    JD (008a90)

  307. LOL.

    Obama is a pragmatist. He’ll do what’s right, not necessarily what’s “left”. – JohnRJ08

    Your “thought” is funny and sad like a black velvet painting of a sad clown.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  308. ^ Comment by CW Desiato

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  309. Then you have been selectively listening to the wrong people. Barack Obama’s doctrine has been very clearly stated: he wants to eliminate the “red state vs blue state” polarizing political mentality that has brought this nation to the brink of ruin. He wants to see the lables “liberal” and “conservative” become relics of a divisive era in our history. Obama wants to go beyond bipartisanism and build a political base that embraces the best idea that both parties have to offer.

    This is a load of garbage! If Obama wanted to rule in a bipartisan manner he would not have let the DNC pour millions of dollars into Senate races in an attempt to win a super majority.

    Obama is all about power (like every other politician). The GOP is a disaster because they abandoned fiscal conservatism to be Holy-war-totalitarian-corporate sellouts.

    OregonGuy (e07696)

  310. JD, your comments here are the best argument that could possibly made against you or any candidate you support. Your language and tone belong in another era. Perhaps the 1950′s in the deep south. Or maybe the late Pliocene. What we’re witnessing here and in other blogs are a lot of children throwing temper tantrums because they now have to sit in the corner for the next 8 years. Grow up.

    JohnRJ08 (e866bd)

  311. Why should I be moved that a man I think is unqualified to be President was elected President?

    Oh, because he is black.

    What exactly does that mean? I should suspend my judgment because of his skin color and pay no attention to the content of his character?

    Dr. Martin Luther King would be so proud of you.

    steve miller (41e5fd)

  312. JohnRJ08 – Are you serious?!

    You come here and call people racists for not being happy that Baracky was elected, sans any evidence.

    I am going to repost my prior comment to you, and give you the opportunity to revise and extend your remarks. Otherwise, you will be lumped in with the rest of the HuffPo trolls.

    then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.

    Fuck off. This idea that the only reason one might not be pleased with electing a quasi-socialist to the White House is because of racism is pure unadulterated BS.

    There is no other explanation for some of the anger I’m reading in this blog

    That you are unable to create a thought beyond yelling RACIST says more about your intellectual capacity than you would like to consider.

    The idea that a presidential candidate wasn’t properly “vetted”? Ignorance beyond belief. The only person who wasn’t vetted is the McCain chose as his running-mate. All other candidates had gone through numerous elections, local, state and national.

    Gov. Palin has gone through elections as well, but I guess Mayor and Governor do not count in your book.

    We will now have a president of superior intellect who knows the Constitution inside and out,

    He believes healthcare is a Right, but gun ownership is not. To me, that displays a fundamental lack of knowledge about the Constitution.

    Never mind, we are all racists here. Good Allah, your type is the most tiresome and vile of all.

    JD (008a90)

  313. VT,
    I think that perhaps the fresh prince of bill ayers is indeed a pragmatist. He will do anything to consolidate his power. It means nothing for him to lie, inveigle and obfuscate. Amazing how so many even on the right hope and pray he will be a Bill Clinton redux and not Jimmy Carter II or McGovern I.
    Now we are led to believe that he will go against his mentors’ teachings and eschew his friendships with numerous scumwads in the interest of solving our national problems. I’m reading other sites pondering what BO will do to correct all the BusHitler mistakes. As if the dems are faultless in the housing crisis, etc. And various asshole trolls here still concerned more about the rights of terrorists at Gitmo and the cruel tortures such as waterboarding, more than keeping America safe. Or congratulating themselves on pleasing the UN and Eurotrash elites by choosing a racial “healer”.
    Yes, now that he is potus-elect, we know he will rein in Reid and Pelosi. That thug Rahm E. from Illinois is a moderate for sure. jajaja- shades of Nixon’s Ehrlichman? BHO (O…..shit!) has never worked across the aisle, but now will strive to unite us all by working with Republicans, even with more dems in Congress? What are the markets telling us? I know the koolaid drinkers already think he will be a great potus. Of course they consider FDR and LBJ great. hell, I know liberals who sing the praises of Jimmy Carter, both as prez and ex-prez. And if only we had that Clinton back running things, the Nasdaq would roar again, terrorists would be chastened by the occasional cruise missiles blowing up empty tents and camels in the desert.
    Let’s see how Bambi handles ImADamnNutjob and Putin. I know the Jews in the mideast preferred McCain, but the world and the Joos here overwhelmingly choose Obama. I bet plenty of dead victims of Hitler never thought he really would go for mass murder too.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  314. they now have to sit in the corner for the next 8 years

    Last time I checked, Baracky was only elected to a 4 year term, and San Fran Nan only a 2 year term. But what do I know, I am just a racist, because I did not have a bowel movement during Baracky’s Ascension.

    JD (008a90)

  315. Comment by JohnRJ08 — 11/6/2008 @ 9:24 am

    Well, JD. He certainly told you, you Neanderthal!

    BTW, I know a good Dermatologist in 90210 who can deal with that skinned-knuckle problem.

    Another Drew (57deb8)

  316. Hi there, Dmac. This is the “unhinged troll” responding to that YouTube clip you posted from the Fox News report. You and Megyn would make a good team. First, she suggests that all these people in front of White House are probably drunk, which was terrific objective reporting, then she spots the Soviet flag and concludes that everybody in the crowd is a communist. Of course, she ignores the fact that the person waving the flag was immediately set upon by everybody around him. If this is your idea of truth and fact, I have some nice ocean front property I’d like to sell you up in Alaska. It has a great view of Russia. This kind of remark is reminiscent of what went on in McCain’s campaign, and it’s one of the many reasons that he lost this election.

    JohnRJ08 (e866bd)

  317. Here is a glimpse of the kind of civil enlightened soul RJ08 is.

    John McCain was a high-strung young man long before he disappointed his father, Admiral John McCain Jr., with his dismal academic performance at the Naval Academy. Graduating 894th in his class of 899 midshipmen made him a man with something to prove. His short, stocky frame was well-suited to the cramped cockpit of a jet fighter, but it didn’t help him live up to the imposing image he needed, so he over-compensated by being physically tough and taking risks, especially when he flew. At the Academy, he had been a boxer and wrestler who was often in trouble with superior officers. When you put this kind of A-type personality into cruel captivity for five years, take away all of his dignity and torture him into betraying his country’s Code of Conduct, it’s going to do some serious psychological damage that doesn’t just go away. In my opinion, McCain shows all the symptoms of someone suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. His manic body language, with constantly clinched fists and jutting thumbs, rapidly blinking eyes, tightly clinched jaw and grimace-like smile are physical manifestations of psychological issues. McCain had a well-earned reputation in the Senate for being ill-tempered and profane, and his inability to control his emotions was painfully evident in the last debate. In the last five years, McCain has also been faced with battling a lethal form of skin cancer, which cannot help but add to his stress levels. It is my belief that John McCain’s erratic choices during his campaign have been an expression of his emotional duress. Even some of his long-time supporters have described him as being “tightly coiled.” Whether you’re a Republican, Democrat or Independent, you have to be somewhat concerned about a man with these issues being put in charge of our country at such a fragile time.

    I report, everyone else can decide.

    JD (008a90)

  318. “…San Fran Nan…”

    JD, did you see where Cyndi Sheehan actually pulled 17%
    (1/6) of the vote for Congress against our Dearest Leader?

    Another Drew (57deb8)

  319. more…
    I didn’t know there were that many Republicans in her district.

    Another Drew (57deb8)

  320. I went and read JohnRJ08′s blogs. Now I feel dirty. It was like spending time with a very very verbose lying asshat from HuffPo. But worse.

    But, he is a skilled fiction writer. Obviously.

    JD (008a90)

  321. San Fran Nan is unpatriotic because Mama Sheehan has absolute moral authority !!!! eleventy !!11

    JD (008a90)

  322. Assimilation of muslims in Europe isn’t without it’s problems JD. What is your point?

    Eelco (959684)

  323. JD, I disagree. I think it’s pretty obvious that you did have a “bowel movement during Baracky’s Ascension”, and you’ve been having more BMs right here in this blog every time you post a comment. Perhaps, too much fiber in your diet?

    It’s been fun, kids. Sort of like taking a ride in a time machine and going back to the end of the last Ice Age, then listening to all the cavemen complain about the warming trend. Time for me to head ‘back to the future’ where the craniums are larger, and pronograde posture is a thing of the past.

    JohnRJ08 (e866bd)

  324. #184 Karl I understand Supply and Demand pretty well. And I’m sure you do too.

    Let me be more clear of what I know so that you could help me understand.

    I’m sure you agree that Demand for oil went up therefore the price of a gallon of gas went up accordingly around 2002. Had nothing to do with greed, I got it.

    Now Gas went up even further at the end of 2007. I’m sure it was again because of Demand. We have figures showing that the Demand for gas started going down dramatically in January 2008 and continued on through Bush’s announcement to lift banns on offshore drilling.

    I was educated by Conservatives back in ’02 who felt the need to defend Oil companies price raising (Demand was high they said).

    Now that Demand is low and has been low, shouldn’t we see a drop in gas prices regardless of talk of offshore drilling?

    Educate me some more Karl or anyone, please.

    Oiram (983921)

  325. #125 Thanks for Nod DRJ.

    I do try to add to the debate and keep things more interesting.

    Oiram (983921)

  326. I have had such a good time reading these opinions from all sides imho it helps you understanding the feeling and thought of people with different views. Kind of wish i had found this site before the election.

    trying2quit (9ecc60)

  327. Comment by Oiram — 11/6/2008 @ 9:51 am

    The basic rules of Economics are lost on this troll.

    Moron!

    Another Drew (57deb8)

  328. Now that Demand is low and has been low, shouldn’t we see a drop in gas prices regardless of talk of offshore drilling?

    Educate me some more Karl or anyone, please.

    Comment by Oiram — 11/6/2008 @ 9:51 am

    The price of gas hasn’t dropped since the beginning of summer?

    Here, it’s down almost $2.

    CW Desiato (614aa7)

  329. JohnRJ08 – I have always found it a great way to bring people around to my way of thinking by calling them racists for not agreeing with me. That you refuse to respond to the substantive point raised by myself and CW tells me all I need to know about you.

    Eelco – That whole thing about not being criticized for being liberal or conservative, given the speech codes and thought police issues with the Muslim assimilation struck me as ironic.

    JD (008a90)

  330. CW – It is under $2 here. I blame Bush.

    JD (008a90)

  331. I always like the unrigorous grade metaphors regarding redistribution. My daughter worked hard earned an A and the lazy students got Cs and Ds. Grades are not the comparables here, but the access to the tools to achieve those grades. Inteligence aside, the issue is does every student of equal inteligence have the same ability to achieve an A. Clearly, an inner city student without access to the same level of teaching,technology or infrastructure has a distinct disadvantage to a well-funded suburban student of the same intellect even aside from the general levels of societal degradation and indifference that occur in poorer neighborhoods.
    Unequal Access to Opportunity would be the operative phrase. The premise that the wealthy are so, solely due to their hard work is largely a myth. The majority of American wealth is generational or is built off of generational leverage. Those that have worked hard to achieve millionaire status, by and large, don’t come from economically depressed areas. They come out of middle and upper class homes where resources are more available to them to make that leap. “Spreading the wealth” (i.e. tiered taxation based on higher income) to reduce these inequalities is not new. Taxation is inherently socialist, but it provides many of the fundamental underpinnings of our society. How many of us won’t be using Social Security,Medicaire,public transportaton or any other socialisitc entity provided by tax dollars regardless of your own political dogma.

    Oh, and the market is experiencing a deleveraging event brought on by the massive increases in liquidity started during the Clinton administration and propagated by the Bush administration which resulted in massive speculative bubbles in food,commodities,housing and international markets which is only now bursting. Leverage ratios are still 40% above norms. Obama is a feather in the wind as far as the market is concerned.

    Pragmatic and Conservative, believe it or not, in Houston.

    Houston (fb83db)

  332. #330 $2.65 here, but yeah it has continued to go down. Hasn’t demand for gas gone down? It sure has here in California.

    Doesn’t that count for anything?

    JD, you know I blame Bush for gas being over $1.50 that’s where it should of been if prices had gone up the way everything else did since The Clinton years.

    I know, I know……. Supply and Demand. But then why blame prices going down solely on offshore drilling.

    Another Drew, at least others here are trying to help me understand.

    Calling me a Moron is not helping your cause.

    Oiram (983921)

  333. gas in indianapolis is $1.88
    i read in the indystar last week that even though gas prices has declined over 37% since the highest point ever which was in JUly 2008 consumers are still driving 5.?% less than they did this time last year. i think the decrease in gas prices has a lot to do with people making conscience decisions on transportation. JMO

    trying2quit (9ecc60)

  334. Madmax,
    ‘The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers.’ It doesn’t get any better than that. Yeah, Barry’s choosing a stellar cast of thugs so far. Is anyone surprised? I have to wonder how much is assigned to him versus his actual input.

    He certainly is Chicago’s creation. Pure pork, midwest Grade AA style. Wait till the filler and earmarks and favors start rolling out. Can the media ‘spin’ and cover that much?

    I’m reading other sites pondering what BO will do to correct all the BusHitler mistakes.

    Barry has a host of people steering him through the job – - always has. If he and Soros do well, he’ll take credit for the surge and the exit. If he does poorly, the ‘Bots will just reach into the Blame Bush bag.

    Vermont Neighbor (c91cfe)

  335. JD, whether it is in America or in Holland, there will always be people who think speech code is a good idea. Luckily, they don’t represent the majority, which is why our countries are free. Open a random Dutch news paper today, and you’ll likely find some pretty straight talking on issues like assimilation of muslims. We’ve gone through some rough times, like when a film maker (Van Gogh) was murdered by a muslim for making a piece on Islam and a policy maker and critic of Islam/ assimilation problems (Ayaan Hirsi Ali) who had to go under protection from the threat of Muslims. But the assimilation problem is not a free speech problem, but rather a problem of the dynamics of a specific group of immigrants, and frankly if you ask me a fucked up religion (as an Atheist I have a problem with any religion that tries to invade my private live). Nothing new under the sun though, if you look back at the problems the US has had any time it had a large influx of new immigrants of a specific group.

    The Dutch have a great tradition of tolerance and free speech. The US constitution was partially inspired on the Dutch Republic, the Dutch protected writers like Locke from prosecution, and the Dutch were the first to acknowledge the USA as an independent country. The Dutch – including me – take pride in that tradition, and generally feel close to what the US stands for. That’s why I get pissed off when reading one-dimensional remarks about how unfree Europe is supposed to be. Believe me, political correctness/ mind control (which in Holland comes as much from the left as from the Christian right btw) is as loathed in Holland as it is here by the majority of the people.

    Eelco (959684)

  336. “Give McCain supporters some time”
    After 20 months of hearing why they should be afraid to vote for Obama, McCain says to them, “it’s time to unite for our country”. His whole campaign was based on hate, fear, and division. How do you expect them to switch over so quickly? This is the danger of campaigning on
    everything else, but the issues. Let this be a lesson to both parties during the 2012 campaign season, stick to discussing your plans to help the country, and comparing them with your opponent’s. People will be a lot more accepting of the President they didn’t vote for.

    Naddeo (8f6d24)

  337. Eelco – Thank you for that perspective. I was thinking about Van Gogh and Ali, and forgot to include them in my prior comments.

    His whole campaign was based on hate, fear, and division

    Evidence, please? This is just pablum.

    JD (008a90)

  338. For the record, my comments about “racists” was taken out of context by one of the local liars. What I said was “If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.” Even staunch Republican pundits were touched by it, even though they’ve been voicing opposition to Obama’s proposals since the Convention. (I would not include the FOX News team in that group). And forget that George Will, Christopher Buckley, Susan Eisenhower, Colin Powell, Kathleen Parker, David Brookes, Scott McClellan, and Ken Dubenstein– all distinguished conservatives– supported Barack Obama.

    JohnRJ08 (e866bd)

  339. “For the record, my comments about “racists” was taken out of context by one of the local liars.”

    JohnRJ08 – No it wasn’t butt munch. We all knew exactly what you meant, another attempt at the progressive slime stereotype of conservatives. Thank you very much.

    How did you wind up on this site may I ask? Were you directed here from one of the very tolerant lefty blogs such as Huff Po, where nary a bad word is said about the right? Your own words about the right don’t seem particularly tolerant, biff.

    Nevermind, I CAN ALREADY FEEL THE HEALING!!!11!1

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  340. If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.”

    How did I take that out of context?!?!?!

    There are a practically endless number of reasons why one could be unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, and none of them have anything to do with race. It is only your narrow-minded bigotry that makes race be the first and only choice on your list.

    As I said, your type is the most vile of all the trolls.

    JD (008a90)

  341. For the record, my comments about “racists” was taken out of context by one of the local liars. What I said was “If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.”

    – Yeah, it’s so much better in-context. Once again it is a member of the left who insists on making the distinction, and who insists that the distinction is significant and needs to be emphasized.

    When I look at Obama the only color I see is Marxist red.

    Icy Truth (0466e6)

  342. JohnRJ08 – Repeated polling indicated that race was important in this year’s Presidential election, but only to Democrats. It was a nonevent for Republicans. Save your allegations of racism for your white liberal friends not showing the appropriate amount of guilt.

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  343. For the record, my comments about “racists” was taken out of context by one of the local liars. What I said was “If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.”

    I would challenge anyone to defend this statement. Anyone.

    JD (008a90)

  344. “What I said was “If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.””

    JD – It’s kind of tough for that turd to walk back from a definitive statement like that, isn’t it.

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  345. daleyrocks – He didn’t even defend it, unless by pointing out that Fox covered the event, and some establishment conservatives said they would vote for Baracky counted as defending his statement.

    But, if you feel like sullying yourself, you can go read about how John McCain ran “the most dishonorable campaign in U.S. history”, and other such nonsense, that this science fiction writer attempts to pass off as cogent thought. He should stick to Vulcans.

    JD (008a90)

  346. I was moved by the scenes in that Chicago park. It made me sad because so many people have high hopes for how their lives will change because of Obama’s Presidency, and I think they will end up very disappointed.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  347. DRJ is not a racist.

    JD (008a90)

  348. “1. Obama, Barack (D-IL) $691,930″

    What you forget to mention is that it was the employees that gave them the money. Not the company.

    “end up very disappointed”

    People were in the park because they were elated at the victory and wanted to celebrate. WE all realize there is a difficult road ahead.

    Patrick (08bee7)

  349. What a sad, ignorant group. I wonder if any of you are even old enough to vote. Some day, when you’re old enough to shave, you’ll come to understand that acting like an asshole online doesn’t make you brave or smart or clever. It just makes you an asshole.

    JohnRJ08 (e866bd)

  350. Some day, when you’re old enough to shave, you’ll come to understand that acting like an asshole online doesn’t make you brave or smart or clever. It just makes you an asshole.

    That understanding appears to have escaped you. Going to someone else’s blog and screaming “RACIST” doesn’t make you brave or smart or clever. It just makes you an asshole.

    I still await your explanation as to why if one was not moved by the Grant Park festivities, there is no other explanation other than racism.

    JD (008a90)

  351. For the record, my comments about “racists” was taken out of context by one of the local liars. What I said was “If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.”

    These are your words. Defend that position.

    JD (008a90)

  352. JohnRJ08 — acting like an asshole online doesn’t make you brave or smart or clever. It just makes you an asshole.

    – Physician, heal thyself!

    Icy Truth (0466e6)

  353. No one else here called the entire readership de facto racists if they didn’t immediately genuflect in front of your Messiah, douchebag. Then you cowardly attempt to backtrack immediately from your assinine statement, only to dig yourself deeper into the tar pit of your own filth. What a pathetic example of a human being – one without a shred of dignity, respect or coherent thought processes.

    Now it’s time for you to do something that for most humans is anatomically impossible – please shove that mongoloid cranium of yours into that never – ending anus, where it’s obviously had much familiarity with over the course of your arrested adolescent lifetime.

    Dmac (e30284)

  354. Oh, and BTW, George Will DID NOT support Barack Obama. And calling Scott McClellan & Kathleen Parker “distinguished conservatives” is like calling Billy Carter & Roger Clinton ‘the best their family has to offer’.

    Icy Truth (0466e6)

  355. Peccator, I have a radio interview in minutes but let me add…..

    90% voted Barack over Hilary when reason would say it should be closer to 50/50 given their identical Democratic positions.

    Also the fact voter turn-out among blacks was so high and so one-sided is further proof.

    Please I live and breadth this every day — let us call an apple and apple. The turnout and ons-sidedness of the vote from primaries to election are proof “Blacks like theirs just as much as Cracker likes his.”

    I already saw the NYT basically saying some states got more “Red” b/c more whites voted in larger proportions for McCain .. hint hint.

    Robert Rodriguez (50bdb0)

  356. I wonder what the odds are of the race card being played during that interview . . .

    Icy Truth (0466e6)

  357. I saw that map, Robert.

    Basically the hillbilly counties went more red, the rest of the country more blue.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  358. sniffles is as predictable as getting the squirts after a late night Taco Bell run.

    JD (008a90)

  359. I hope you’re not trying to pick a fight, JD.

    Here’s the map :

    http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2008/11/the_mccain_belt.php

    snuffles (677ec2)

  360. I do not think it is possible for me to care less about what Ygelsias or thinkprogress have to say.

    I am not trying to pick a fight, alphie. Just pointing out your general trollish nature.

    JD (008a90)

  361. “No one else here called the entire readership de facto racists if they didn’t immediately genuflect in front of your Messiah, douchebag.”

    Does your mother know you talk like this?

    Your reading comprehension skills are suspect. You didn’t have to be an Obama supporter to be moved by what happened at Grand Park on Tuesday night. It was a powerful moment in American history, which you seem to be astonishingly ignorant about. If distinguished Republicans can admit that they were moved, why can’t you?

    JohnRJ08 (e866bd)

  362. Staying inside the cocoon is probaly for the best, JD.

    It’s scary out here in reality land.

    snuffles (677ec2)


  363. For the record, my comments about “racists” was taken out of context by one of the local liars. What I said was “If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.”

    If you do not have to be an Obama supporter to be moved by this, why is it that you cannot imagine another reason, other than racism, as to why others may not have been moved?

    JD (008a90)

  364. I’ve been debating JD for more than 6 months now.

    He is not a racist.

    Oiram (983921)

  365. “If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.”

    Does your mother know you talk like this?

    You first.

    Dmac (e30284)

  366. It was a powerful moment in American history,

    Are you referring to your bowel movement again?

    Dmac (e30284)

  367. I actually heard the mass rally, I live less than 6 miles from Grant Park – you couldn’t get away from it, it was on every local TV station. My reaction? Looked quite like the European football matches you can view regularly on most cable systems. Lots of drunks and screamers, some catatonic nutjobs (i.e. Oprah), and more than a few slackers who took the opportunity to play hooky from their classes that evening. It also appeared that the younger men in the group were much more interested in scoring some hot dissident action with the babes wearing the required Che’ T – Shirts.

    Dmac (e30284)

  368. “If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.”

    JohnRj08 @ #340, this is an inflammatory assumption and judgment that again reminds readers that those on the left will continue to use racism as a vile weapon. And what is it you are fighting? You are fighting against the freedom we have to see things very differently than you. It is unacceptable to you and instead of respectfully acknowledging the difference, you make it personal and lob the flamethrower. Because almost nothing is more personal than accusing individuals of racism.

    As a minority female who has personally experienced enough racism to last a lifetime, you offend me. That you and people like you continue to perpetuate this malevolent and insidious disease in light of the man America has just elected to be our next president, is telling.

    It really does not bode well for our future, does it? But then I’ve never been so naive and deluded to believe that the appearance of one man could erase the festering blisters on the human heart of many. Of people like you.

    Dana (79a78b)

  369. If you were unmoved by the scenes in that Chicago park, then you have to face up to the fact that you’re nothing more than a racist.”

    I was not moved. I actually threw up in my mouth a little bit. Especially when I saw big girl Oprah and those spiders on her eye lids, I wanted to yell at her “Hey big girl!!!! , there are spiders on your eye lids, girl you better get them off” but then I figured she couldn’t hear me through her sobs.

    And then I threw up a little more when I saw Chris Mathews shaking a little bit, and I’m not sure if it didn’t originate from his mid-pants area because he proclaimed to the world he gets a little “tingle” up his leg when he hears Woebama speak and this made me think about him working on his “tingle”.

    And then I really lost it when I saw Michelle’s dress because girl she looked big and lumpy and it made me thnk of the Pillsbury doughboy and then I wanted to eat a biscut, but I had throw up in my mouth. Girl that dress did NOT do her any help, if you look at the models it was supposed to be worn by probably a size 2 woman, not a 14.

    Dont’ see any racism in that, just pure commen sense.

    ThaLeena (fde6c4)

  370. jd, we await something new that you have to say. Other than your fun name-calling you have nothing of note to say.

    Stay golfing will ya? Let the smart people argue and you should try listening for a change.

    Damn, Michelle didn’t get an account at Neiman-Marcus? And when is Sarah going to give those hot clothes to charity, Michelle could use some. Last dress she wore in public was said to be only a hundred and fifty bucks…more than Target or WallMart shoppers…but not by much.

    a great looking family otherwise.

    datadave (1298f9)

  371. Oprah’s attachment to this whole thing is strange even if it is race-based. No problem with that, but here’s someone who’s as talented as many people we know, but for some reason, has been blessed over and over and over again. So the race issue apparently connects her to Obama, yet her career is securely anchored in capitalism (hard work, luck and rewards).

    The fact is, her syndicated projects put hundreds of people out of work and block the existence of dozens of local shows. It’s an odd result that she is a capitalistic hog, someone consuming more than her share of wealth. Again, the tears and emotion just don’t make sense. She has no connection to oppression; she has been richly rewarded beyond her talent and skills. The underdog minority thing from Oprah is a total puzzlement. Her wealth is so staggering it could easily be divided and distributed and she would hardly feel the pinch. I don’t understand this woman’s heart or brain. (And yes, I know she gives trips and gifts to her staff. None of them, far as I know, own several media empires and a portfolio of $50 million homes.)

    Vermont Neighbor (5ea336)

  372. Well, don’t you worry data dave. Michelle has friends who give her great land deals and monster home markdowns… caviar and room service at the Ritz… private jets, $8,000 vacation homes for a few nights… that sort of thing.

    The difference is, since you’re a talking points spouting fool… the difference is, the GOP encourages work and opportunity and REWARDS. The Obama-Soros machine doesn’t want you to have the yacht, the homes, the $6,000 earrings. Obama should live like his aunt or brother if he wants us to do without.

    I heard something about spread the wealth around. But, nah . . . musta been a rethuglican who said that. Not Barack Obama.

    Vermont Neighbor (5ea336)

  373. DRJ – Apparently Iowahawk read your comment ;-)

    “Election Analysis: America Can Take Pride In This Historic, Inspirational Disaster

    Although I have not always been the most outspoken advocate of President-Elect Barack Obama, today I would like to congratulate him and add my voice to the millions of fellow citizens who are celebrating his historic and frightening election victory. I don’t care whether you are a conservative or a liberal — when you saw this inspiring young African-American rise to our nation’s highest office I hope you felt the same sense of patriotic pride that I experienced, no matter how hard you were hyperventilating with deep existential dread.”

    JD (008a90)

  374. Four in 10 voters overall said Palin was an important factor in deciding who to vote for, and this group leaned slightly toward Obama. But nine in 10 Republicans calling Palin’s selection important were voting for McCain.

    AP article on exit polls

    So while Palin did hurt McCain, it could not have been enough to cost him the election.

    h0mi (d2c7b6)

  375. All the liberals who want to sing the death toll for the conservative party are sadly mistaken. We have been down before and haven’t gone away. Obama and his leftist illuminati practices will have many of the Obamaniacs running for the right before it’s all said and done.

    Jeff (024c6a)

  376. ^ Maybe. Each party has gone off track. But someone had to win.

    How many will get mad at no free car or house – - those raw numbers would be interesting!

    Vermont Neighbor (5ea336)

  377. “Patrick – Why must your type be so dishonest? I asked the troll to name even one deregulation that President Bush supported and enacted that caused the credit crisis we are currently experiencing.”

    Why must your type be so full of it? President Bush supported the Community Reinvestment Act so he was just another contributor. Members of the Bush political party namely Phil Gramm SUPPORTED the deregulation and worked with Citigroup in order to dismantle the regulations that would of prevented the credit crisis. Even the polls show that most people believe republicans are more responsible for the crisis… they are after all the party of the rich. Bankers/CEO’s et cetera..

    Patrick (08bee7)

  378. Even the polls show that most people believe

    Just because people believe crap doesn’t make it so, and there are large segments of the population that are dysfunctional for one reason or another (and stupidity counts, here).

    And no the Republican party isn’t “the party of the rich.” It is the party of individual freedom, private property, civil rights, and the pursuilt of happiness; which, as much as the Dems and RINOs would like to be otherwise, isn’t guaranteed by the Constitution to be obtainable.

    And it is mostly made up of responsible individuals who don’t particularly care for the idea of turning America into another failed socialist state like most of Europe.

    EW1(SG) (7b8592)


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