Patterico's Pontifications

11/2/2008

A Vote for Barack Obama is a Vote for Partial-Birth Abortion

Filed under: 2008 Election,Abortion,General — Patterico @ 10:42 pm

This isn’t really news, but I think it needs emphasizing anyway; a vote for Obama is a vote for partial-birth abortion. He will see to it that partial-birth abortion happens in this country again.

Partial-birth abortion is a “procedure” in which the abortionist stabs the baby in the skull with a pair of scissors and sucks out its brains using a suction catheter. Justice Thomas’s dissent in Stenberg v. Carhart notes that the procedure is used to abort fetuses anywhere from 16 to 26 weeks old:

There is apparently no general understanding of which women are appropriate candidates for the procedure. Respondent uses the procedure on women at 16 to 20 weeks’ gestation. 11 F. Supp. 2d, at 1105. The doctor who developed the procedure, Dr. Martin Haskell, indicated that he performed the procedure on patients 20 through 24 weeks and on certain patients 25 through 26 weeks. See H. R. 1833 Hearing 36.

Here is an 18-week old fetus — a prime candidate for this “procedure”:

On July 17, 2007, Senator Obama said to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund: “The first thing I’d do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That’s the first thing that I’d do.”* Skip ahead to 1:32.

Obama co-sponsored the act, which (among other things) states that a”government may not deny or interfere with a woman’s right to choose . . . to terminate a pregnancy after viability where termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman.”

Will this invalidate the federal ban on partial-birth abortion? You bet it will. The abortion rights supporters at NOW agree, saying that the law “would override the Court’s decision in the two cases” upholding the federal Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003. The law approvingly quotes Justice Ginsburg’s characterization of the rulings in those cases as “alarming,” and as “an effort to chip away at a right declared again and again by this Court.”

In short, the act Obama supports would give us partial-birth abortion again.

Radical abortion rights supporters claim that we need to have partial-birth abortion, because (they claim) most late-term abortions are done for medical reasons such as terrible genetic abnormalities. This is not so. Don’t believe me; believe liberal journalists David Savage and Franklin Foer.

David Savage of the L.A. Times has written: “Doctors say only a small percentage of [partial-birth abortions] are done because of medical complications or fetal deformity.” Foer summarized research done by the Washington Post and Bergen Record and said: “After interviewing doctors who perform the procedure, both papers concluded that only in very few instances was the [partial-birth abortion] actually necessary to protect the woman’s health. Most of them were performed on poor women who could not muster the money to pay for abortions earlier in their pregnancies.”

In addition, the “health” exception for women is not limited to physical health. The exception is so broad that it can always be justified by a doctor willing to claim that a woman’s mental health would be affected by the denial of an abortion. As Jan Crawford Greenburg has explained:

Current Supreme Court jurisprudence is understood by lower courts to prohibit those flat-out bans unless the laws provide exceptions for a woman’s mental health. Lower courts repeatedly have struck down laws that only provide an exception for serious physical issues as being contrary to Supreme Court precedent.

Look again at the picture of the 18-week-old fetus. Are you comfortable with stabbing that creature in the head with a pair of scissors and sucking out its brains? When statistics show that most such abortions are not done for physical health reasons?

Bottom line: Obama has pledged to sign legislation that will bring us that unnecessary horror again.

That’s what you’re voting for if you vote for Obama.

*In context, Obama does not appear to mean that this would be his first act as President; he is responding to a questioner who is asking him what he would do to protect access to abortion on a federal level.

72 Responses to “A Vote for Barack Obama is a Vote for Partial-Birth Abortion”

  1. Look again at the picture of the 18-week-old fetus. Are you comfortable with stabbing that creature in the head with a pair of scissors and sucking out its brains?

    The only legal alternative to this procedure now is the doctor randomly rips the late term fetus to pieces in the womb.

    Not sure what has been gained by outlawing the more humane procedure.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  2. McCain is against both.

    Andrew (3b0903)

  3. snuffles is for both.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  4. “The only legal alternative to this procedure now is the doctor randomly rips the late term fetus to pieces in the womb.”

    What crime would I be charged with if I delivered the baby?

    Al (b624ac)

  5. Good question, Al.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  6. I don’t think anyone is “for” abortions of any kind, Patterico.

    We just recognize their necessity sometimes.

    snuffles (677ec2)

  7. Sadly, I think you would be charged with assault on the mother.

    DRJ (cb68f2)

  8. Well, I can say is that when “snuffles” writes, about abortions:

    “…We just recognize their necessity sometimes….”

    That the TdJ is female.

    Eric Blair (a723e0)

  9. Assault.

    My personal defense would be “I was observing a capital crime and intervened.” Volunteer to adopt the kid on the spot and take my chances with a jury.

    She’s already volunteered for substantial invasive surgery. If I perform a “partial birth abortion” while ‘forgetting’ the minor step of sucking the brain out, how is the mother impacted medically?

    Are my peers really going to convict on that? And if so, well, that’s the entire point of civil disobedience anyway.

    Al (b624ac)

  10. Sickening stuff.

    “That’s what you’re voting for if you vote for Obama.”

    No worries. I’d eat a bowl of maggots before I’d vote for that guy.

    Dave Surls (e443d3)

  11. Obama farther left on abortion than other other official in the country. This alone is enough to vote against him. Man he’s extreme!

    Americaneocon (a45113)

  12. _____________________________

    What’s really pathetic is that some of Obama’s pals on the left, including those who reside in the city he calls home, probably are less bothered by the idea of partial-birth abortion than something like what’s pointed out below. Obama himself probably would take more time fretting over the treatment of geese than the partial-birth abortion of human fetuses.

    Liberals in the 21st Century: Specialists in the art of ass-backwards compassion.

    Chicago Sun Times, May 15, 2008

    The alderman whom Mayor Daley derisively calls Joe “Foie Gras” Moore (49th) now knows how the geese and ducks feel. Two years after the City Council banned the liver delicacy made by jamming a steel pipe down a bird’s esophagus, Daley essentially did the same to Moore on the City Council floor.

    By a vote of 37-6, the foie gras ban that Daley claims made Chicago an international laughingstock was repealed, thanks to a legislative end-run that set a new standard for violating protocol and rolling over the opposition.

    “The city had placed its mark as a city of compassion, a city that was standing up against [animal] cruelty and it’s taken a giant step backward. But, it’s also taken a giant step backward in … good old fashioned democracy. … There was no reason that this issue had to be ramrodded through today,” Moore said.

    Daley argued that the animal cruelty issue has been debated ad nauseam, that “everybody knew” about the repeal and it was high-time to reverse a foie gras ban that damaged the city’s reputation in international dining circles.

    Julie Janovsky, a spokesperson for the animal protection group Farm Sanctuary, argued that the foie gras ban had “massive public support” and that the City Council’s repeal “effectively endorsed animal cruelty.”


    …Senator Barack Obama pledges support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and he says he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture to make their policies more humane.

    Obama also comments on the broader links between animal cruelty and violence in society:

    “I’ve repeatedly voted to increase penalties for animal cruelty and violence and, importantly, to require psychological counseling for those who engage in this behavior as part of the punishment….As president, I’d continue to make sure that we treat animal cruelty like the serious crime it is and address its connection to broader patterns of violence.”

    During Barack Obama’s eight years as an Illinois state senator he voted in favor of at least twelve animal protection laws. These included state legislation to allow creation of pet trusts to provide for long-term care of companion animals, to upgrade penalties for cruelty to animals, to require psychological counseling for people who abuse animals, to require veterinarians to report suspected acts of cruelty and animal fighting, to ban slaughter of horses for human consumption—significant because Illinois was one of only two states (with Texas) where horse slaughter plants operated,
    to create additional restrictions to make it more difficult for puppy mills to operate.

    He voted to end the federal funding of horse slaughter in 2005, and he is currently a co-sponsor of new legislation to stop horse slaughter and the export of horses for human consumption.


    _____________________________

    Mark (411533)

  13. Affirmative Action Presidents Kill.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  14. I have explained this to any one who would listen: The junior Senator from Illinois has promised that one of his first acts as president would be to sign the so-called Freedom of Choice Act. He made that promise to Planned Parenthood. This act would eliminate all restrictions of any sort on abortion. So, either the Senator lied to Planned Parenthood (not likely) or he lied in the last debate when he said he supported the ban on partial birth abortion. Any attempt to portray Senator Obama as pro-life is misguided at best. It is more likely motivated and influenced by the father of lies. Princeton professor Robert George said it best: “Barack Obama is the most extreme pro-abortion candidate ever to seek the office of President of the United States. He is the most extreme pro-abortion member of the United States Senate. Indeed, he is the most extreme pro-abortion legislator ever to serve in either house of the United States Congress.” No Catholic worthy of the name can support him.

    Mark L. (d430ea)

  15. I just finished watching the video of Obama speaking before Planned Parenthood and noticed his flippant disregard of matters along the lines of abortion — partial birth or otherwise — as “so 90’s,” meaning controversies that to his way of thinking apparently are passe and irrelevant, so much a part of yesteryear.

    Another thing: I notice that Obama has a slight street-wise, in-da-hood dialect during moments of his giving speeches, particularly when he’s getting hot and bothered. Reminds me of the hellfire-and-brimstone Southern-preacher-man voice that Al Gore sometimes would put on in order to sound oh-so-cool, oh-so-passionate.

    The thought of such flakes and oddballs occupying the Oval Office of the White House?

    Priceless!

    Mark (411533)

  16. It is such a sad state of affairs that PETA has more power than right to life groups. That people are more intimidated into not harming animals than they are into not harming people.

    worried (b9d766)

  17. How many votes are there for a repeal of the PBA ban? It passed 64-34 in the Senate, including 17 Democrats. Sixty-three Dems voted for it in the House. God willing, the Dems won’t have THAT big a majority to push through such a high-profile bill.

    They’ll be too busy screwing over Iraq anyway.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  18. Friend of my father who’s a doctor in southern CA informed me one day that there is no instance where a partial birth abortion is needed for the health of the mother.

    He supports this by saying that largely, the “worse” part of childbirth is over when the procedure is performed (the head). There would be no medical reason the mother could not FINISH birthing the child.

    It is done out of selfishness. Want an abortion? Fine. Go get one. But for fuck’s sake, do it before the damn thing could survive outside the mother.

    Scott Jacobs (425810)

  19. People say it’s pro-woman to be “pro-choice.” they don’t know women and how their psyches react to being pressured into abortions. That pressure increases 1000-fold when abortion is legal (“Take care of it!”) because when it is, there is no natural societal impetus to help women carry their babies to term.

    And how anyone who calls himself or herself pro-life can vote for this cold, unfeeling, 100%-NARAL-rating baby-killer-enabler, Barack Obama, is beyond me.

    http://www.abortionchangesyou.com

    http://www.hopeafterabortion.com

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  20. It is done out of selfishness. Want an abortion? Fine. Go get one. But for fuck’s sake, do it before the damn thing could survive outside the mother.

    Comment by Scott Jacobs — 11/3/2008 @ 7:13 am

    Beg to differ, on two counts. Many women get lied to about what’s inside them (you think Planned Parenthood is going to show them pictures?) which is why the vast majority (IIRC over 90%) of women who see an ultrasound of their baby before a scheduled abortion change their minds. So they may not know that, for example, at four weeks a heart starts beating, at 6 brain waves begin, at 12 weeks you can see a tiny penis already forming on a boy baby, and fingers and toes.

    A human baby is a human baby, and ability to survive independently is not the thing that makes us human and therefore protectable.

    And of the ones who do know the humanity of the child, yes, it is very selfish. But many, many women (I’ve known a few personally, met them after their abortions) are pressured like no one would believe, by parents, husbands, boyfriends, basically threatened with abandonment if they don’t “take care of it.”

    “A woman wants an abortion like an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg.” –Pro-life feminist Frederica Mathewes-Green

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  21. I dare say that more innocent people in Iraq have been killed by this wonderful Republican war, than innocent people killed by PBA. I’ll vote for the candidate who would kill the fewest innocent people.

    Jack (a9896a)

  22. snuffles – How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  23. I dare say that more innocent people in Iraq have been killed by this wonderful Republican war, than innocent people killed by PBA. I’ll vote for the candidate who would kill the fewest innocent people.

    As opposed to all the guilty people killed by Saddam?

    Seriously, drop the “Republican war” meme… It just makes you look retarded…

    Scott Jacobs (425810)

  24. I dare say that more innocent people in Iraq have been killed by this wonderful Republican war, than innocent people killed by PBA. I’ll vote for the candidate who would kill the fewest innocent people.

    Comment by Jack — 11/3/2008 @ 8:20 am

    If you count all abortions then you would definitely be voting for John McCain. But this is a strawman. No one went in specifically targeting innocent people in Iraq. Very regrettable, and tragic, every life lost. But unintended, and I feel safe saying every measure was taken to avoid loss of innocent life in Iraq. This is not true of abortion, where the innocent are targeted.

    You also don’t count the innocent lives SAVED by protecting the Iraqis from the regime of Saddam Hussein and his two brutal, murderous sons.

    Pro-life, are you? Then vote for John McCain.

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  25. Abortion is nothing more than sacrificing your own children at the altar of selfishness.

    The death penalty is an atrocious act, yet abortion is essential.

    Amazing liberal values.

    ML (14488c)

  26. Scott Jacobs beat me to it re: Saddam. Thanks Scott.

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  27. BTW, Iraqis seem to know who would be more effective at efforts to protect their lives:

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081030170209.3wcxfwin&show_article=1

    http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/30/iraqis-prefer-mccain-over-obama/

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  28. Scott – But think of all that cheap Iraqi oil we’ve gotten out of the deal so far!

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  29. snuffles – How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

    Comment by daleyrocks — 11/3/2008 @ 8:24 am

    A (with scowl): “That’s not funny.” :)

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  30. This is just some wedge issue designed to polarize the electorate.

    Racists.

    JD (5b4781)

  31. No one went in specifically targeting innocent people in Iraq

    Well, AQ did… 😀

    Kinda why the Awakening happened. They got sick of it.

    Scott Jacobs (425810)

  32. A vote for Obama is a vote for common sense and compromise on all issues affecting most Americans. There is no left view point and a right view point. What we need is a common ground. And a little honesty. On the issue of abortion, I think there is a lot of hypocricy going on. Especially here. We like to say we are pro-life. But in practise, are we, really? Of course Obama does not support killing harmless little babies. He is just being real about his position on abortion. Are you?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  33. We like to say we are pro-life. But in practise, are we, really? Of course Obama does not support killing harmless little babies. He is just being real about his position on abortion. Are you?

    Comment by love2008 — 11/3/2008 @ 9:33 am

    love2008,
    Yes, I am pro-life. In practice too. Please define “being real” with respect to your comment about Obama. Thanks.

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  34. Comment by no one you know — 11/3/2008 @ 9:36 am

    Do you believe that in all cases, abortion is evil?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  35. A vote for Obama is a vote for common sense and compromise on all issues affecting most Americans. There is no left view point and a right view point.

    What kind of drivel is this? No left and no right? Compromise?

    Of course Obama does not support killing harmless little babies.

    Except when he supports legislation that does support killing harmless little babies.

    JD (5b4781)

  36. noyk – I have a sneaking suspicion you are about to be deluged by an avalance of strawpeople.

    JD (5b4781)

  37. Do you believe that in all cases, abortion is evil?

    Comment by love2008 — 11/3/2008 @ 9:40 am

    If you believe that an unborn child is an innocent human being, certain things follow from that. You have called yourself pro-life on this site, IIRC. Do you believe that specifically targeting innocent people for destruction is wrong?

    Yes, I do believe that, with the exception of eliminating a threat to the mother’s life (not lifestyle, but life), abortion is always wrong.

    I also believe most women do not want abortions (in most cases, their motherly instincts tell them what’s growing inside them whether or not they know the details of their baby’s growth) and feel pressured into them by those around them.

    Again, for anyone reading this thread who needs this info (I know women who were shattered by their legal abortions):

    http://www.abortionchangesyou.com

    http://www.hopeafterabortion.com

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  38. Asking for a cogent, intelligent statement from the loveless is like asking for rocks to produce bourbon.

    Another Drew (7e15a8)

  39. noyk – I have a sneaking suspicion you are about to be deluged by an avalance of strawpeople.

    Comment by JD — 11/3/2008 @ 9:44 am

    Yet THOSE people are welcome in The One’s minions’ worlds.

    I submit, are these strawpeople viable? Can they survive outside their mother’s wombs? DO THEY PAY TAXES AND DIDACORNREGISTERTHEMTOVOTE????? :)

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  40. People suck. This is the most literal example.

    Ed (d7cda1)

  41. I am as pro-life as it gets. But I am also reasonable.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  42. Yes, I do believe that, with the exception of eliminating a threat to the mother’s life (not lifestyle, but life), abortion is always wrong.

    Just to clarify before the predictable howls go up from the pro-abortion people (“SEE? you DO think unborn children are lesser beings!!one!”), imagine a mentally handicapped person who is swinging an ax around, threatening you even though he doesn’t understand he is about to kill you.

    Are you justified in shooting him if that’s the only way to stop him? He’s innocent of any wrongdoing. But he’s threatening your life.

    People disagree on this. But I think that though both our lives are equally valuable, my taking action to protect my life is justified, even though it has the UNINTENDED secondary effect of ending another’s.

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  43. I think the ultimate irony is Norma Leah McCorvey, Jane Roe of (Roe v. Wade) is now pro-life.
    She realized she was nothing but a “pawn” in a very sick game.

    ML (14488c)

  44. Patrick;
    I’m not an Ob-the old man was-,but I delivered a lot(100) as a resident.Delivering an 18 wo fetus would grt you a license withdrawl if you’re a dod coupled with a manslaughter charge.It’s pretty hard to get the unripwned cervix open then,and the fetus can’t survive.

    corwin (07884c)

  45. I am as pro-life as it gets. But I am also reasonable.

    Comment by love2008 — 11/3/2008 @ 9:54 am

    So it’s “reasonable” to take no action against the brutal deaths of innocent human beings. Not even to speak against it.

    Well, may I ever a wild-eyed paragon of unreasonableness be, then.

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  46. Comment by no one you know — 11/3/2008 @ 9:56 am
    There you go again. Projecting.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  47. There you go again. Projecting.

    Comment by love2008 — 11/3/2008 @ 10:11 am

    Projecting…what? Please clarify. Thanks.

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  48. “A vote for Obama is a vote for common sense and compromise on all issues affecting most Americans.”

    Right. He’s got that demonstrable record of bipartisanship that no one can seem to demonstrate.

    Funniest thing I’ve read all week!

    Lovie – You’re turning into a comedienne.

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  49. Comment by daleyrocks — 11/3/2008 @ 10:19 am

    Ranks right up there with Rosie O’Donnell and Roseanne Barr.

    Another Drew (7e15a8)

  50. A question I’ll put out there for anyone who’s for abortion, and I’d actually like responses:

    What is the unborn? That is, is it human, or is it not?

    Chris (6733a5)

  51. Testimony of Viki Wilson To the Senate Judiciary Committee In Opposition to H.R. 1833/S. 939
    “My doctor arrived at two in the morning. He held my hand, and informed me that they did not expect our baby to live. She was unable to absorb the amniotic fluid and it was puddling into my uterus.

    This poor precious child had a lethal neurological disorder and been unable to move for almost two months. The movements I had been feeling over the last few months had been nothing more than bubbles and fluid. Her chest cavity was unable to rise and fall to stretch her lungs to prepare them for air, leaving them severely underdeveloped, almost to the point of not existing. Her vital organs were atrophying. Our darling little girl was going to die.

    A perinatologist recommended terminating the pregnancy. For my husband and me, this was not an option. I chose to go into labor naturally. I wanted her to come on God’s time–I didn’t want to interfere.

    It was so difficult to go home and be pregnant and go on with life, knowing my baby was dying. I wanted to stay in bed. My husband looked at me and said, “Coreen, this baby is still with us. Let’s be proud of her. Let’s make these last days of her life as special as possible.” I felt her life inside of me, and somehow I still glowed. At this time we chose her name– Katherine Grace. “Katherine” means pure, and “Grace” represents God’s mercy.

    We went to many more experts over the next two weeks. It was discovered that Katherine’s body was rigid and she was stuck in a transverse position. Due to swelling, her head was already larger than that of a full-term baby. Natural birth or an induced labor were impossible.

    We considered a caesarean section, but experts at Cedars-Sinai Hospital were adamant that the risks to my health and possibly my life were too great. There was no reason to risk leaving my children motherless if there was no hope of saving Katherine.

    The doctors all agreed that our only option was the intact D&E procedure. I was devastated. The thought of an abortion sent chills down my spine. I remember patting my tummy promising my little girl that I would never let anyone hurt or devalue her.

    After Dr. McMahon explained the procedure, I was so comforted. He and his staff understood the pain and anguish we were feeling. I realized I was in the right place. This was the safest way for me to deliver. This left open the possibility of more children. It greatly lowered the risk of my death. Most important, it offered a peaceful, painless passing for Katherine Grace.

    When I was put under the anesthesia, Katherine’s heart stopped. She was able to pass away peacefully in the womb, which was the most comfortable place for her to be. Even if regular birth or a caesarean had been medically possible, my daughter would have died a agonizing death.

    When I awoke a few hours later, she was brought in to us. She was beautiful. She was not missing part of her brain. She had not been stabbed in the head with scissors. She looked peaceful. My husband and I held her tight and sobbed. We stayed with her for hours, praying and singing lullabies. Giving her back was the hardest moment of my life.

    Because of the safety of this procedure, I am now pregnant again.”

    Jimmy the toaster (a0efe0)

  52. Late-Term Abortion Saves Lives

    “Pulling a Full Term Unborn Child Feet First Out of the Birth Canal, Shoving a Forceps Through the Base of His/Her Skull and Sucking the Brains Out with a Suction Cannula, Crushing His/Her Skull and Pulling the Crushed Head Out Saves Lives”

    See how… reasonable that sounds?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_extraction#Intact_D.26X_surgery

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  53. 54. I Love my Wife. I don’t believe in abortion.
    If late term abortion will save her life, and it’s up to me, I’m saying yes to the abortion. Even if you tell me that the chance of that situation comes up is a million to one.

    It’s our choice, the government should not be involved.

    Oiram (983921)

  54. Late-Term Abortion Saves Lives

    The research into hypothermia conducted by Dr. Mengele helped to save the lives of downed pilots who ditched/parachuted into the sea.

    No further comment needed.

    Another Drew (7e15a8)

  55. 54. I Love my Wife. I don’t believe in abortion.
    If late term abortion will save her life, and it’s up to me, I’m saying yes to the abortion. Even if you tell me that the chance of that situation comes up is a million to one.

    It’s our choice, the government should not be involved.

    Comment by Oiram — 11/3/2008 @ 12:52 pm

    The Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act already contains an exception to save the mother’s life:

    “This subsection does not apply to a partial-birth abortion that is necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial-Birth_Abortion_Ban_Act#Provisions

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  56. Late-Term Abortion Saves Lives

    Toaster Man – It’s suppoerts never seem to be able to document how many lives. Got a number for us?

    daleyrocks (60704b)

  57. FIRST step, Oiram, in the government not being involved with abortion: reverse Roe v. Wade

    Icy Truth (0466e6)

  58. I think the one comment from this election cycle that I’ll remember many years from now is from the letter a college student wrote Obama. “The heart that beats in an unborn babies chest – is it a human heart? The blood that flows in an unborn babies veins – is it human blood?”

    I don’t think Obama ever answered.

    oneisnotprime (494091)

  59. How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

    — Trick question. a) You can’t fit any feminists inside a light bulb; b) Feminists don’t screw.

    Icy Truth (0466e6)

  60. You know Pat I really thought about this posting and I cannot justify abortion unless there are the most extreme circumstances. I will agree with you that to abort this child would be terribly wrong.

    But there are a couple of points I would make.

    First of all there is no assurance that the GOP would do things any differently. They may claim to be about reform but where are the reforms they promised in the past? Term limits. Balanced budget. They talk one way but I think its just for show because they never follow through. I suspect it is the same with this.

    And secondly, to be honest, I dont think we are being given the full story here. Not that I can supply the ‘rest of the story’ but the GOP has shown itself so willing to lie and exaggerate things and to put forward an exaggerated claims or misleading or one sided stories that you can’t believe what they say.

    This talk of Marxism and Socialism all because of a tax hike or this crap about Obama’s birth certificate, Obama being sworn in on the Quoran, the charge that Obama wanted full sex education for first graders, for example, are just a perfect examples of why you just cant trust anything they say. I have noticed in my discussions that so many times they just make a wild charge and if its shown to be false they just drop it and bring up another.

    Maybe what you say here is true but for now lets just say the radical conservatives have cried wolf many many times too often to have any credibility.

    VietnamEraVet (543dfe)

  61. When did the GOP ever say they were in favor of term limits?

    Icy Truth (0466e6)

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    i can say.i love you.

    allison (d3f5a0)

  63. VEV – You are right. We are not getting the whole story. The MSM let Baracky slide through this entire election with outright lies about his positions, especially on abortion.

    JD (5b4781)

  64. Of course Obama does not support killing harmless little babies. He is just being real about his position on abortion.

    By his very vote he made his position clearly known. He does support killing harmless babies,. That’s just the bitter truth that you and others cannot accept and continue to rationalize. And while that’s certainly your prerogative, it tends to sound hypocritical when you tell us what is needed is honesty.

    Dana (658c17)

  65. A vote for Baracky is also a vote for scores on scores of dirty socialist masturbation policies made real, but yes it’s the little fetuseses what are top of mind on this darkest of nights.

    Anyhoo. I wanted to say hi to Karl. Hi Karl.

    happyfeet (5836ae)

  66. Saaayyy Whattttttttt?

    Another Drew (7e15a8)

  67. A vote for Baracky is also a vote for scores on scores of dirty socialist masturbation policies made real, but yes it’s the little fetuseses what are top of mind on this darkest of nights.

    This is why I enjoy happyfeet so much …

    JD (5b4781)

  68. If it became known that, due to induced labor, a litter of puppies was waaaaaaaaaaaaay prematurely delivered and then set aside to die “naturally” in a broom closet — there’d be a HUGE public outcry (and at least one ballot proposition). As an Illinois State Senator, Barack voted 3 freakin’ times against stopping the practice of “Live Birth” abortions. And he has stated that his first freakin’ act as President of the United States will be to enact the “Freedom of Choice Act”

    Richard Reese (afbdcb)

  69. Partial birth abortion is disgusting.

    i like america (d2f951)

  70. well again I say you have not heard both sides..

    VietnamEraVet (543dfe)

  71. JD says. A vote for Baracky is also a vote for scores on scores of dirty socialist masturbation policies made real, but yes it’s the little fetuseses what are top of mind on this darkest of nights.
    A plurality of Americans have voted for Barack Obama. And now stop your constant sniping epithet ‘Baracky’ ‘Baracky’. It’s become quite repetitive, boring and totally unoriginal.
    You basically have very little say to say apart from such epithets and name calling.
    I can understand your intellectual limitations. but from your 24 hour constant postings of rant, I also suspect you are on a paid job – maybe till the elections are over.

    smith (b6b610)


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