A Very Interesting — and Potentially Devastating — Story About Obama and Terrorist Bill Ayers Is Beginning To Percolate
[Posted by WLS]
The subject of Obama’s connection to William Ayers through an educational foundation called the Chicago Annenberg Connection (CAC) has begun to enter the mainstream media.
As has been discussed over the last few days on several web sites, and as is now being covered in some mainstream media outlets, the University of Illinois at Chicago is withholding from Stanley Kurtz, a contributing editor at The National Review, and a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, the records of an enterprise called the “Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC). Kurtz’s published a long article on Monday explaining how he learned about the records, how he sought to review the records at UIC, how he was given permission to come review the records, how he was allowed to review a “finding aid” (akin to a table of contents), and then when he was about to board a plane to Chicago to conduct the review, the University suddenly changed its mind and denied him access.
Why is this important? Because Obama was the Chairman of one arm of the CAC from 1995 to 1999 — its “Board”. Ayers wrote the grant application for $50 million submitted to the Walter Annenberg Foundation which was used to create the CAC. But, more significantly, Ayers headed up a second arm of the CAC – the Chicago School Reform Collaborative.
The role of the “Board” was to handle all fiscal matters, i.e., the parceling out of grant monies to various applicants from the Chicago school system.
The role of the “Collaborative” was to serve as a “clearinghouse for ideas, for resources, for information — the place where strategies are created, successes and failures analyzed, and plans made and shared….”
Keep in mind that when Obama was made Chairman of the Board in 1995, he was three years out of Harvard, was an associate at a small Chicago civil rights law firm, and had no great political contacts to speak of. Nevertheless, he was appointed to the position of Chairman of a non-profit educational foundation with a $50 million grant — which came with the obligation to raise matching funds from gov’t or other charitable sources (the Board eventually raised another $60 million). Other members of the Board were such Chicago luminaries as former University Presidents and Presidents of other charitable foundations. Yet they were led by a 3rd year associate from a small Chicago law firm.
The unreported fact of this episode is that Obama as Board Chairman, and Ayers as Collaborative Co-Chair, worked hand-in-hand in the process of reviewing and approving grant proposals that came to the CAC. One of Ayers’ roles at the Collaborative was to write “Requests for Proposals”, and then to assist potential grantees in fashioning their Application Proposals to match. It is inconceivable that during the period from 1995 to 1999, Obama and Ayers did not have a close working relationship as they went about parceling out tens of millions of dollars to applicants for funds from the CAC.
Yet, in February of this year, the Washington Post blog “Fact Checker” by Michael Dobbs was dutifully reporting the Obama-Ayers connection in the following terms:
The only hard facts that have come out so far are the $200 contribution by Ayers to the Obama re-election fund, and their joint membership of the eight-person Woods Fund Board. Ayers did not respond to e-mails and telephone calls requesting clarification of the relationship. Obama spokesman Bill Burton noted in a statement that Ayers was a professor of education at the University of Illinois and a former aide to Mayor Richard M. Daley, and continued:
Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous.
But the Obama-Ayers link is a tenuous one…. Whatever his past, Ayers is now a respected member of the Chicago intelligentsia, and still a member of the Woods Fund Board. The president of the Woods Fund, Deborah Harrington, said he had been selected for the board because of his solid academic credentials and “passion for social justice.”
“This whole connection is a stretch,” Harrington told me. “Barack was very well known in Chicago, and a highly respected legislator. It would be difficult to find people round here who never volunteered or contributed money to one of his campaigns.”
This might have remained the accepted version had it not been for reporting done over the last few months by Steve Diamond at his blog Global Labor and Politics. He has seen some of the CAC documents that Kurtz is trying to obtain (some of which I quote here), and has them posted at his site.
It would take much more time than I have right now to go through all Diamond’s reporting on this subject, but I think it can be synthesized down to a few bullet points and some conclusions and suppositions about that which is not yet known.
First, Ayers remains a radical left Marxist/Maoist just as he was in his days in the Weather Underground, and before that the Students for Democratic Society.
Second, Ayers now preaches revolution through propaganda and indoctrination which is to be taught in the form of primary and secondary school education. That’s what the CAC was all about, and that’s what the Obama campaign is so desperate to hide.
The mission of the Collaborative was to save a pet project of Ayers in the Chicago school system called the “Local School Councils.” This was the battleground for a fight for control of the Chicago school system in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Ayers favored decentralizing control of the school system through the creation of elected “Local School Councils” to oversee the bureaucracy of individual schools or groups of schools. These LSCs would have authority over both the school administration and the teaching staff.
The LSCs were created by a law passed by the Illinois legislature in 1988. Ayers was an advocate of the LSCs in the fight for the legislation. When the Illinois legislature later gave control over the Chicago school system to the office of the Chicago Mayor, that threatened the LSCs by re-centralizing the power over the schools in the local government rather than the LSCs. Ayers created the CAC as a foundation to empower the LSCs — to give the money and to help them pursue educational initiatives pushed at the grass roots level.
While this might seem noble, what Ayers was really after was a mechanism to control curriculum of individual schools. Ayers has praised the re-education programs of communists in places like Nicaragua and Venezuela, which have been imposed through the public education systems in those countries. Ayers went so far as to proclaim in a speech in Venezuela in 2007 that he and Chavez shared a belief that “education is the motor-force of revolution.”
Much of Diamond’s reporting on this topic is about the framework of the CAC, Ayers and Obama’s roles connected thereto, and how the CAC worked. What is missing — and what presumably Kurtz would find in the documents now being withheld from him — is the far left educational subject matter that Ayers proposed to push through the primary and secondary schools if he could gain control of the individual school curriculums through the LSCs — control which he sought to achieve by working with LSC’s through the Collaborative to help them gain such control. The fact that Obama, as Board Chairman, voted to fund grant proposals submitted in response to Requests of Proposals drafted by Ayers in his role as Collaborative co-chair, would be a DIRECT and SOLID link of Obama to the long-standing efforts by the far left to extend the reach of their Marxist/Maoist philosophy from the college level, down into the high schools and primary schools of this country.
This connection through the CAC casts great doubt on the well-rehearsed story that Obama first got to know Ayers only when he was introduced to him and his wife while contemplating his first run for the Illinois State Senate, and has since remained only a casual friend “from the neighborhood.” Frankly, if the records being withheld show what I suspect they show, as outlined above, they’ll represent the spark that caused the immolation of the Obama campaign.
I’m going to try and post much more on this topic as I find new information. Several bloggers have a head start, and I’d appreciate any new leads that any commenters here happen to pick up in their own web wanderings.
FWIW, this won’t have legs. Most people will think of this as youthful hijinks, like voting for Dukkakis.
steve miller (b589d7) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:48 pmWatch it, WLS. Love’s on the way to tear you a new one!
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:50 pmIt may not have legs, but it could well plant a seed (as did Rev. Wright) in the form of “What does this guy really believe?”
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:53 pmOne problem with this story is that it is complex. That’s why the cover-up is so dumb. The cover-up will make a better story and I suspect Obama is not smart enough, or experienced enough, to realize that.
Mike K (2cf494) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:53 pmI have told people for months that their is a reason why Hillary never completely backed out of the race. If this is as bad a it looks we will have a different match – up in November that many think we are going to have.
“Ayers went so far as to proclaim in a speech in Venezuela in 2007 that he and Chavez shared a belief that ”education is the motor-force of revolution.”
A lot of people in the Berkeley would support that kind of thought, but they are not enough to get Obama the White House.
tyree (943a27) — 8/21/2008 @ 8:54 pmIf this broke a month ago, Hillary would have a chance. However, with less than a week to go, it’ll be too little, too late for her.
aunursa (5daa82) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:08 pmHere is the text of that speech, on what appears to be Comrade Ayers’ Web site, complete with red star. How Che.
It doesn’t look like a spoof.
Bradley J. Fikes (0ea407) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:13 pmNote that Fox news is refusing to air ad by a conservative nonprofit group featuring the Obama-Ayers connection. Fox spokesman won’t say why not.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:17 pmagreed that Hillary can’t be the nominee, and I doubt she wants to be (and raise so much more ire) when the tide has turned for the GOP.
But this story will have some legs. Obama lied about his relationship with a terrorist. That alone is a simple message that will have impact. The complex education scam is not simple enough to distill, but the concept of a coverup, of some kind of commie thing going on, and the Annenburg folks calling a $100 million dollar project led my Obama “s fsilure” should help that ‘not ready to lead’ argument.
The cover-up indeed is the best feature of this for Mccain. Obama has a lot of scandals for his short career. Rezko, Wright, Ayers… eventually people start having doubts. And doubts are all they really need. The best Obama has on Mccain is that his wife has investment properties (they counted the home Mccain’s wife’s sickly great Aunt lives in as one of Mccain’s homes), and Keating 5, which really is a bonus for Mccain, since he was exonerated and it was a witchhunt to tack a Republican onto a Democrat scandal.
Juan (4cdfb7) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:21 pmMore like it, wls. Good stuff. Always knew you had it in you. Now where is the beef?
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:23 pmbut I think it can be synthesized down to a few bullet points and some conclusions and suppositions about that which is not yet known.
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:30 pmThere. Right there. That’s the beef. ROTFLLMHO!
Fox spokesman won’t say why not.
— Probably contains an allegation of fact that can’t be backed up to their satisfaction . . . either that or it questions his patriotism.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:30 pmLove, the beef is coming. And it will be good. They can hold the lid on only so long then, look out !
Remember in Ghostbusters when the EPA guy shut down the ghost containment thingee? That is what Obama’s campaign is going to look like when Rezko, Ayres, Wright, Phleger, Farrakhan and a few more horror stories from Obama’s past career cut loose. The timing ought to be about right for Halloween.
Mike K (2cf494) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:34 pmThis is a good post and the story is emerging. A 501(c) conservative group is running an ad in Michigan and Ohio on Obama’s links to Ayers. The link says Fox News refused to air the ad.
WLS:
The ad’s sponsor is the American Issues Project and it claims to have more information at its website. However, the links to the background information wouldn’t load for me.
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:37 pmI’m going to try and post much more on this topic as I find new information. Several bloggers have a head start, and I’d appreciate any new leads that any commenters here happen to pick up in their own web wanderings.
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:37 pmIn other words. I don’t know what the heck I am talking about so anyone who knows what I am talking about, come on, help a guy out! (cracking my ribs. Laughing my head off!)
#12 – Mike K
Remember in Ghostbusters when the EPA guy shut down the ghost containment thingee?
Ray Stantz: Everything was fine with our system until the power grid was shut off by dickless here.
Walter Peck: They caused an explosion!
Mayor: Is this true?
Peter Venkman: Yes it’s true. This man has no dick.
— The only question is: who is who in the Obama campaign? I say David Axelrod is Walter Peck.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:43 pmThe thing is, whether there’s anything there or not – if they have a choice of whether to release a damaging item about him or “lose” it, what do you think they’re going to do?
Anon (db8e0c) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:43 pmcracking my ribs. Laughing my head off!
— Being a prick.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:45 pmOf course that’s what the missing records show. Just take a look at the classes in the local university education department–it’s all about “social justice,” or Marxism/anti-Americanism.
Patricia (f56a97) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:46 pmIn other words. I don’t know what the heck I am talking about so anyone who knows what I am talking about, come on, help a guy out! (cracking my ribs. Laughing my head off!)
Stop it, Love2008, you’re embarrassing yourself again.
Dana (084de8) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:46 pmI think that in a national election any story with “Chicago” in it helps McCain.
nk (3c7a86) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:48 pmHey, I can help. Did you know that Obama is a transsexual? And that he has children from former gender life? He used to be a mother before becoming a daddy. No. Seriously. (Holding back laughter and trying really hard to look serious)
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:52 pmKeep trying. You’re not there yet.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:56 pmThis is the American Issues Project ad.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:58 pmSet browsers on “Ignore Moron”.
nk (3c7a86) — 8/21/2008 @ 9:59 pmBHO was chairman of the grantee in charge of doling out 100 million dollars over 5 years. The official evaluation reports on the program(available in PDF on Prof. Diamond’s site) show the program was a failure. A good bit of the money was wasted on left-wing silliness.
In other words, BHO’s only quasi-executive position was a failure and a colossal waste of money. I’d say that has some relevance to the upcoming election.
vnjagvet (d3d48a) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:00 pmIt is also something people will be able to understand.
vnjagvet (d3d48a) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:02 pmI think the media also should spend more time examining his early ties to ACORN and their subsequent roles in his campaigns. Given that organization’s frequent legal problems, that should be fertile ground to plough. A few whiffs of voter fraud always smells nice around a Chicago machine candidate. I’m sure Lovey agrees with these thoughts.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:07 pm#22
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:07 pmBut seriously Icy, knowing how desperate and viciously Hillary fought for this nomination, do you really think, if their was really any scandalous stuff left somewhere on Obama, she would have hesitated to use it? To me, Obama really had his baptism of fire in the primaries. There isn’t really anything new McCain can fish out. That is why I love wls’ favorite line,
but I think it can be synthesized down to a few bullet points and some conclusions and suppositions about that which is not yet known. </i
Tell me you are not laughing… 🙂
But seriously Icy, knowing how desperate and viciously Hillary fought for this nomination, do you really think, if their was really any scandalous stuff left somewhere on Obama, she would have hesitated to use it?
So they’re keeping it from Stanley Kurtz – why?
Anon (db8e0c) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:12 pmNext thing you know, someone’s going to break a story that Bill Clinton worked for that pinko McGovern back in ’72.
WLS: I give credit to you for the amount of work you obviously put into this, but the conclusion I keep coming back to is “Who gives a flying fuck?” Not anyone that wasn’t already convinced that the guy has a hammer and sickle tattooed on his chest, that’s for sure.
Leviticus (c72d16) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:13 pmLook, think of it this way – if McCain was friends with, served on a board of directors with, spoke well of, and had a fundraiser in the house of somebody who once plotted to bomb abortion clinics (and said he only regretted he didn’t do more), do you think it would be a big deal?
Anon (db8e0c) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:17 pmlove2008, what do you mean nothing new?
Hillary thought Obama was to be her VP, and should be protected. She only fought hard at the end, and there’s plenty of new stuff.
Obama lied about his relationship with Ayers. Ayers is the reason Obama became a politician with this huge $100 million dollar project Obama led as a nobody (and it failed). That’s news. This occurred EARLIER than the date Obama claimed they met.
There’s a reason Chicago is covering it up. You really think they would act this crooked if there was nothing new in these files?
Not to mention, Hillary isn’t nearly as cunning and vicious as we are led to believe. I doubt we’ll know the full truth about Obama for a long time.
Not to mention that the undecided voters who barely pay attention do not yet know about Obama and Ayers. They don’t know about Weather Underground and they aren’t aware of the Rezko deal. Some don’t even know about God Damn America, or 20 years of antisemitic nonsense.
Trust me, informing the voters will have an impact. And it’s not one sided. Mccain has had some dumb legislation, etc etc.
Juan (4cdfb7) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:19 pm#30 – Leviticus
“Who gives a flying fuck?”
— If you believe the stories . . . Rielle Hunter.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:19 pmWright, Pfleger, Rezko, Ayers, Dohrn, the Daley machine and all those Chicago politicians.
At some point voters will reach the tipping point and decide Obama’s associates aren’t people average Americans know and respect.
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:20 pmComment by Icy Truth — 8/21/2008 @ 10:19 pm
You possess a skill I can only hope one day to master.
Anon (db8e0c) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:20 pm#28 – love2008
But seriously Icy, knowing how desperate and viciously Hillary fought for this nomination, do you really think, if their was really any scandalous stuff left somewhere on Obama, she would have hesitated to use it? To me, Obama really had his baptism of fire in the primaries. There isn’t really anything new McCain can fish out.
— 1) He doesn’t have to fish out anything new, just make good use of the old. 2) THERE IT IS! You and your ‘buddy’ Oiram, who never post at the same time, both consistently write “their” instead of “there”. Coincidence? Methinks ‘not’. Time to ‘fess up.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:27 pmIcy Truth — 8/21/2008 @ 10:27 pm
You and your ‘buddy’ Oiram, who never post at the same time, both consistently write “their” instead of “there”. Coincidence? Methinks ‘not’. Time to ‘fess up.
– Or it could be that they’re both uneducated. That seems to explain much more than simple grammar.
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:30 pm#35 – Anon
You possess a skill I can only hope one day to master.
— If I made any money from it, then I’d call it a skill. As it is, I call it a talent that is basically the blogosphere version of a party trick.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:32 pmLeviticus — 8/21/2008 @ 10:13 pm
Not anyone that wasn’t already convinced that the guy has a hammer and sickle tattooed on his chest, that’s for sure.
I’d argue that there are many who haven’t been convinced of this, but who, upon becoming more informed of Obama’s poor associations, will simply dislike and distrust him enough to at least withhold their vote. Even his ardent supporters aren’t quite sure about his policies.
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:37 pmGood night y’all. And remember:
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:37 pmbut I think it can be synthesized down to a few bullet points and some conclusions and suppositions about that which is not yet known.
Good luck as you dig. LOL.
#39 – Apogee
Even his ardent supporters aren’t quite sure about his policies.
— Until recently, his ardent supporters paid no attention to his policies. It was all about Hope & Change and ‘anything is better than 4 more years of Bush’ and ‘he will heal the lepers with his health plan, and raise the dead (Marx, Guevara)’.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:47 pmGoodnight, Oiram
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:48 pmlove2008, I always assume you’re a Ron Paul guy, but I guess that’s silly.
Just keep in mind that the ENTIRE POINT of fighting Obama is “what which is not yet known”. We don’t know a lot about Obama’s life. What we do know raises awful questions.
If all we can do is prove to the undecided that there is a lot of unknowns, then Mccain will win this election. Because Obama has no record to fall back on, aside from 130 ‘present’ votes.
Juan (4cdfb7) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:49 pmIcy, if he wants to sockpuppet, I guess it’s not a big problem. I certainly don’t want this site to be free of liberals, so if they multiply artificially, that’s OK with me.
I recall one of Cyrus Sanai’s sockpuppets accidentally threatening a libel suit on me for a question I asked Cyrus (it was a somewhat trollish question, I admit). I just thought it was a funny gaffe. Some people realize they are so misguided they can guide no one to their point of view, and feel forced to create a friend. It’s not worth the time to worry about.
Juan (4cdfb7) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:52 pmMe either, Juan. I was just being silly.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/21/2008 @ 10:57 pmSeems like you folks can’t even wait for the files to be accessed. The mere whiff of blood and you’re off to the races.
I imagine medieval witches hunts were much like this. Innuendo, ignorance, lies, fear and pure hatred. And before you know it, there’s a collective break from reality and a hysterical mob of enraged idiots throws an innocent person onto a massive roaring bonfire and watches him burn. Patting each other on the backs on a job well done, because if the screaming in agonyevil one hadn’t been a witch, well then surely it would follow that God in his mercy, would’ve made him impervious to fire.
What utter horse poop.
Torquil (a72029) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:13 pmWTF? Haven’t seen any of that in this thread and I just looked through it again. Any speculation that might be critical of Obama is now classified as “hatred”? It’s a witch-hunt? Seriously Torquil (if that is your REAL name…huh? huh? sounds fake to me… *snort*), your imagination is more than enough to get you through the day. The strange thing is, we never let patients read blogs or post comments… email and sports news, that was about it. Put your nurse on next time and I’ll have a little chat with them… we love to compare notes.
Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:27 pm“there’s a collective break from reality and a hysterical mob of enraged idiots throws an innocent person onto a massive roaring bonfire and watches him burn.”
That sounds like what happened to the left with the mass hallucination about McCain cheating at Saddlebrook and him inventing the cross in the sand story based on one dickhead poster at dailykos’ unsourced say so.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/21/2008 @ 11:42 pmYours is good for this one, but we could just edit it as shown and just apply to every driveby troll that decides to vomit a bit before leaving. Kind of an all-purpose response, like Formula 409. You can have author-credit and domestic royalties… I’ll take the foreign distribution. Deal? 😉
Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:00 amAs fascinating and important as this story is, it is far too complicated. I have tried, on multiple occasions, to try to explain the Obama Ayers connection in a simple fashion to people who loosely follow politics. It doesn’t take them long to get lost because it is too detailed. There is no smoking gun.
Sadly, it isn’t enough that Barack Obama was happy to ride the coattails of terrorists and racists to obtain power.
bskb (632eb1) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:13 amAnon: Look, think of it this way – if McCain was friends with, served on a board of directors with, spoke well of, and had a fundraiser in the house of somebody who once plotted to bomb abortion clinics (and said he only regretted he didn’t do more), do you think it would be a big deal?
Funny you should mention that, because McCain is in fact very close to an anti-abortionist who’s been proved to be a liar and a thief and a hypocrite who fleeced evangelicals and also a very close associate of everyone’s favorite Republican criminal and all around sleazoid Jack Abramoff.
Could be quite the problem for McCain…
Torquil (a72029) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:21 amWorks for me Stashiu3
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:22 am#46 – Torquil
Seems like you folks can’t even wait for the files to be accessed. The mere whiff of blood and you’re off to the races.
— We feel shame. We know that nobody on the other side ever engages in such shenanigans.
I imagine medieval witches [sic] hunts were much like this.
— CROWD: A witch! A witch! We’ve found a witch! A witch! A witch! We’ve got a witch! A witch! A witch! Burn her! Burn her! We’ve found a witch! A witch! A witch!
VILLAGER #1: We have found a witch. May we burn her?
CROWD: Burn her! Burn!
BEDEVERE: How do you know she is a witch?
VILLAGER #2: She looks like one.
CROWD: Right! Yeah! Yeah!
BEDEVERE: Bring her forward.
WITCH: I’m not a witch. I’m not a witch.
BEDEVERE: Uh, but you are dressed as one.
WITCH: They dressed me up like this.
CROWD: Augh, we didn’t! We didn’t…
WITCH: And this isn’t my nose. It’s a false one.
BEDEVERE: Well?
VILLAGER #1: Well, we did do the nose.
BEDEVERE: The nose?
VILLAGER #1: And the hat, but she is a witch!
VILLAGER #2: Yeah!
CROWD: Burn her! Yeah! Yeah!
BEDEVERE: Did you dress her up like this?
VILLAGER #1: No!
VILLAGER #2 and 3: No. No.
VILLAGER #2: No.
VILLAGER #1: No.
VILLAGER #1: Yes.
VILLAGER #2: Yes.
VILLAGER #1: Yeah, a bit.
VILLAGER #3: A bit.
VILLAGER #1: She has got a wart.
BEDEVERE: What makes you think she is a witch?
VILLAGER #3: Well, she turned me into a newt.
BEDEVERE: A newt?
VILLAGER #3: I got better.
VILLAGER #2: Burn her anyway!
VILLAGER #1: Burn!
CROWD: Burn her! Burn! Burn her!…
BEDEVERE: Quiet! Quiet! There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
VILLAGER #1: Are there?
VILLAGER #2: Ah?
VILLAGER #1: What are they?
CROWD: Tell us! Tell us!…
BEDEVERE: Tell me. What do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2: Burn them!
VILLAGER #1: Burn!
CROWD: Burn them up! Burn!…
BEDEVERE: And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1: More witches!
VILLAGER #3: Shh!
VILLAGER #2: Wood!
BEDEVERE: So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3: B–… ’cause they’re made of… wood?
BEDEVERE: Good!
CROWD: Oh, yeah. Oh.
BEDEVERE: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEVERE: Ah, but can you not also make bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #1: Oh, yeah.
RANDOM: Oh, yeah. True. Uhh…
BEDEVERE: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No. No.
VILLAGER #2: No, it floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond! Throw her into the pond!
BEDEVERE: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Uh, very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1: Cider!
VILLAGER #2: Uh, gra– gravy!
VILLAGER #1: Cherries!
VILLAGER #2: Mud!
VILLAGER #3: Uh, churches! Churches!
VILLAGER #2: Lead! Lead!
ARTHUR: A duck!
CROWD: Oooh.
BEDEVERE: Exactly. So, logically…
VILLAGER #1: If… she… weighs… the same as a duck,… she’s made of wood.
BEDEVERE: And therefore?
[pause]
VILLAGER #2: A witch!
VILLAGER #1: A witch!
CROWD: A witch! A witch!…
VILLAGER #4: Here. Use this duck.
[quack quack quack]
BEDEVERE: Very good. We shall use my largest scales.
CROWD: Ohh! Burn the witch! Burn the witch! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn her!…
BEDEVERE: Right. Remove the supports!
[whop]
[clunk]
[creak](the scales balance)
CROWD: A witch! A witch! A witch!
WITCH: It’s a fair cop.
VILLAGER #3: Burn her!
CROWD: Burn her! Burn her! Burn! Burn!…
Innuendo, ignorance, lies, fear and pure hatred.
— Is that the new slogan? Frankly, I think “Change We Can Believe In” was catchier.
And before you know it, there’s a collective break from reality and a hysterical mob of enraged idiots throws an innocent person onto a massive roaring bonfire and watches him burn.
— Ah, so you remember what happened to Kerry in ’04.
Patting each other on the backs on a job well done, because if the [screaming-in-agony evil one] hadn’t been a witch, well then surely it would follow that God in his mercy, would’ve made him impervious to fire.
Icy Truth (f4d960) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:28 am— What a scoop! The itinerary for Thursday night at Invesco field: nailing Hillary into her political coffin. Thanks, dude!
Torquil, you first complain about vague relationships, and then you assert one.
Typical.
The big problem here is the cover-up. Mccain is not covering anything up. No libraries are destroying information about him. Obama has too much Chicago corruption helping him. And I think Obama has an extremely close connection to Ayers.
But I just think the voters should have the facts, about both Mccain and OBama, and decide who is more reliable.
One problem you have is that Mccain can rely on his long record of being a great person and a bona fide moderate with no real scandals. He can list his accomplishments so we can weigh any rare weirdos around him accordingly as not very important unless they are very close.
Obama is so empty of experience and success that he can easily be redefined by the few things we know about him. Can Obama point to something and say “I’m not a left-extremist.. look how I did this conservative thing against liberal interests!” He’s got no record… spent most of his time voting ‘present’, and it’s too hard for him to shake the wierdos around him.
Juan (4cdfb7) — 8/22/2008 @ 1:30 amObama,Ayers,Annenberg,and ACORN: a family affair?
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/obama-ayres-annenberg-and-acorn-a-family-affair/
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:47 amI presume that now that the files have become a point of investigation they are being sanitized as we speak.
Bob Smith (281b12) — 8/22/2008 @ 4:15 amFunny you should mention that, because McCain is in fact very close to an anti-abortionist who’s been proved to be a liar and a thief and a hypocrite who fleeced evangelicals
I seemed to have missed the words “bombed abortion clinics” in that sentence. (or do you just make an association of one anti-abortion guy with another?)
For that matter I seem to have missed the guy’s name – if you’re going to accuse somebody of that, would you like to at least provide it?
As far as Abramoff, McCain led the Committee that went after Abramoff so I think his friendship might be a little suspect.
Now-about the guy who was friends with, held a fundraiser with, and called “respectable and “mainstream” a person who once tried to bomb the Capitol . . .
Anon (db8e0c) — 8/22/2008 @ 4:52 amI see this more as an honesty and moral courage issue than anything else.
Consider the recent abortion, baby, “above my pay grade” item from Obama recently. Here’s one url:
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/08/17/obama-deciding-when-a-baby-gets-human-rights-is-above-my-pay-grade.php
Obama just did not have the moral courage to tell the truth in the face of a committed advocate of a position counter to his. Instead, Obama fumbled and gave an evasive answer that bordered on a lie (if not an actual lie).
Here, with Ayers, Obama was confronted with questions about how well he knew the man, associated with him, etc. He gave another evasive answer, full of half-truths, and falsehoods. He would probably have been fine if he had said something that contained the following direct elements:
– Ayers’ terrorist days were long before Obama knew the man,
– Obama worked with Ayers a lot in Obama’s youth on the CAC,
– The intent of the CAC (as Obama knew it) was to improve education, especially at the youth level, and it distributed a lot of money in that effort, and
– The CAC enjoyed only some limited successes before it came to and end, and transferred its residual assets to the Chicago school system.
So, why did not Obama simply say that? I judge the answer was that he lacked the moral courage to admit the true level of involvement and association with Ayers, just as he was too weak to tell the anti-abortion pastor to his face that he favored the widest interpretation of “choice”.
Could it be that Obama fears not being seen as perfect, or admirable? And that he will flip-flop to please the loudest or most recent? Would you have confidence that such a one could represent our nation’s overall best interests when facing Putin? Chavez? Reid? Cheney? Clinton (either)? Reverend So-and-so? Ayatollah Whoever?
This is not pretty.
jim2 (a9ab88) — 8/22/2008 @ 5:42 amI think Ralph Reed is a smarmy weasel, but what are these allegations and when were they proved?
Pablo (99243e) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:00 amHi WLS – the second C in CAC is for Challenge – not Connection. Other than that, you were right to link Global Labor, what a job he’s done. Kurtz getting snubbed has ensured that this will expand. The Chicago Tribune is being rightfully called out since they opened Jack Ryan’s sealed divorce through a court order (some say at Obama’s behest). Time for some sauce for the gander!
rhodeymark (e96855) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:19 amThe CAC enjoyed only some limited successes before it came to and end, and transferred its residual assets to the Chicago school system.
The CAC was a stone FAILURE. Don’t take my word for it, that was the description ascribed to Annenberg’s post-mortem. The CAC was granted >$49M with the stipulation that 2x that amount would be raised locally. Of the $150M that passed through the board that Obama initially chaired, only $50k (that’s thousand) was left to pass on at dissolution. Wouldn’t you love to see the books opened? “Judgement To Lead” in action?
rhodeymark (e96855) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:28 amrhodeymark –
Please note that my words were what I think Obama could/should have said; they are not my own conclusions on the CAC.
Let me stipulate that CAC was a failure, overall. Nonetheless, that much money could hardly fail to help in some situations. That is, particular local schools could point to something specific. My reading of the source document now on the web seems to make that much supportable, though little more; certainly, not enough to merit the funds and resoources expended. Nonetheless, claims of small and local successes would be impossible to disprove, and they would have provided enough cover, now, this many years later.
OBH: “I tried my young best to help elementary education. I recall some small successes ….”
It would have been enough to avoid this story.
jim2 (a9ab88) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:39 amAny Texas dem voters care to comment on the shenanigans that went on during the primary caucuses? Seems to have been plenty of “incidents”.
Obama Caucus Fraud Tricks (updated)
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:40 amhttp://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/caucus-fraud-proof/
oops, sorry, wrong day
Look at the official incidents in El Paso alone.
Seems the Chicago machine politics efforts are easily reproduced nation-wide. A new kind of leadership for sure!
What does the PUMA membership think of this thievery?
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/08/20/caucus-fraud-proof/
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:45 amAyers: terrorist and Marxist. Wanted and got money to change Chicago schools to his ideal. Who helped him give out the money? Obama.
Were the students helped one bit? No. Did Obama tell the truth about his connection to Ayers? No.
Given the other Chicago projects that seemed to only be about giving money to friends, the contents of these files could be very interesting.
MamaAJ (788539) — 8/22/2008 @ 7:01 amDoesn’t that just tell us that the funds were granted per the mission? Annenberg is a private foundation, and they have to disclose their grantees, so it shouldn’t be tough to get a list of those grantees. (if there is a problem, it’d be in the difference between the funds granted and those allocated, which would equal spending on overhead.)
jpe (08c1dd) — 8/22/2008 @ 7:27 amBingo. It’s too unrealistic to convince American voters that he has a “hammer and sickle tattoed on his chest” (nice Levi!) But the Chicago connection is huge. People outside of Chicago just don’t realize the scale of the corruption. Of course Ayers is a “respected member of the community, friendly with the mayor.” We live in a freaking Democratic banana republic. Of course earmarks are flying to all of the Obama/Rezko/Ayers friends, that’s how it works here.
I think that the corruption angle is the way to go – incompetence in chairing CAC, and corruption earmarking the money. Especially contrasted with McCain’s reputation as a reformer. The Ayers connection is only significant in that the denial (he’s a guy in my neighborhood) is a flat-out lie.
carlitos (39ff54) — 8/22/2008 @ 7:43 amThis story has a ways to go but the cover-up is getting everyone’s attention. I’ve been following it for a while and the story will dog Obama and become part of the tail of tin cans following him until November. I’m still looking for the respectable person in his life besides his kids. Everybody has a problem. The election will be decided by the independents, a larger group this year than in any election in decades. They are the audience for these stories. The Obamabots will follow him anywhere. You can see that here. They’ll never be convinced he’s anything but the Messiah.
Mike K (2cf494) — 8/22/2008 @ 7:44 amOuch.
carlitos (39ff54) — 8/22/2008 @ 7:50 amBloggers: Doing the investigative work the media won’t do.
Evil Pundit (646727) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:00 amI guess there are four possible angles here:
1) Ayers connection.
2) Wasteful disbursement of grant monies.
3) Corrupt disbursement of grant monies (to cronies/shells.)
4) Coverup conspiracy.
Most voters probably don’t care a lot about angles 1 & 2, but if there’s some dirt to be found on angles 3 or 4, you might have something with legs.
I attended UICC (that’s what we called it back then) 1971 to 1973, so the CAC document stonewall interests me a bit.
g Keep Rockin p (72be5d) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:01 amThe CAC grantees enjoyed deferred success. The deferral is continuing as we speak.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:11 am“Look, think of it this way – if McCain was friends with, served on a board of directors with, spoke well of, and had a fundraiser in the house of somebody who once plotted to bomb abortion clinics (and said he only regretted he didn’t do more), do you think it would be a big deal?”
– Anon
Not if the individual in question had been plotting to bomb empty abortion clinics thirty years ago, and had since stopped and become a teacher.
I’m willing to forgive Ayers, even if he continues to express childish revolutionary pap – that’s his right. But apparently you guys are willing to convict Obama of some sort of thought-crime for associating with a man who blew up buildings when he was a little kid.
Leviticus (744f85) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:20 amAn Empty Capitol Hill???
Another Drew (72bbba) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:29 amYeh, like that empty mathematics lab at the (?) University of Michigan (?) where a researcher was working late?
Well, what’s one academic in the war on fascism?
Right, Leviticus?
Plus, he stopped and became a teacher?
Just what the Hell has he been teaching those “young skulls full of mush”?
The man is an un-repentant Marxist!
He said (just recently – look it up) that “we didn’t do enough?”
Fool!
That it has been so long since Ayers committed his crimes would mean something if he was repentant, but he’s not. He’s still a Marxist and he has a direct, significant connection to Obama. That Obama is a leftist is undeniable; that his true political philosophy may parallel that of Marxism is something the American people need to know.
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:33 amYour comment about political indoctrination struck a chord. My daughter spent a year in Chicago after high school with the nonprofit organization City Year. Her job was serving in an inner city public school. During her first week there her mother and I participated in a fix-up project at one of the Chicago schools and were quite stunned at the level of overt political display. So much so that I deemed it necessary to snap a few photos to show others.
Menlo Bob (4664f6) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:41 amLeviticus – Not if the individual in question had been plotting to bomb empty abortion clinics thirty years ago, and had since stopped and become a teacher.
Then why:
– deny working with him when he served as co-chair of a board, launched his career at his house etc.?
– claim “their kids went to the same school” when their kids are 20 years apart in age
– say “it’s some guy in my neighborhood” rather than “we’re friends?”
I mean, if these bombings are no big deal (except to the families of the bombing victims of course), why bother concealing the relationship? Why seal the freaking CAC archives then?
carlitos (39ff54) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:44 amLevi, it’s wonderful that you forgive Ayers, except that he hasn’t asked for forgiveness! He’s unrepentant. He regrets that they didn’t do more.
carlitos (39ff54) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:45 amLeviticus – Is there any difference to you between domestic terrorism and international terrorism, say Baader Meinhof or the Red Army Faction or Shining Path?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:59 amThe last refuge of a scoundrel is usually the shopworn phrase “but he’s done so much…for the children.” Keep parroting that kind of thought, and see what kind of reaction you’ll get with the broader public.
Dmac (874677) — 8/22/2008 @ 9:00 amcarlitos – That’s not Levi, it’s Leviticus. Big difference.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/22/2008 @ 9:01 amAh, that explains a couple of things!
carlitos (39ff54) — 8/22/2008 @ 9:16 am“Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that’s where it’s really at”
– Bill Ayers when asked to summarize his philosophy in the 1970s
Leviticus, I think the “empty buildings” is downplaying what they attempted to do at least slightly, but I seriously doubt that if McCain was friends with and held a findraiser with a guy who tried to bomb empty abortion clinics in the past, that wouldn’t be an issue for you. It would be for me and I’m anti-abortion.
As far as being a kid, I wasn’t born when the Weathermen were active and I knew what they were, Obama should have known and if didn’t do what ought to be basic homework here, it says something about the quality of people he’ll appoint. Ayers was also sent to jail in ’81 so this should have been in the news when he was older not just when he was eight, but more to the point if he really didn’t know this merely because he was young, just what events pre-70s should we expect Obama to know about and what shouldn’t we?
Anon (8c4d09) — 8/22/2008 @ 9:28 amObama’s a commie? Next thing you’ll tell me is that he is black.
Ira (28a423) — 8/22/2008 @ 9:34 amYou seem to imply there is something wrong if a babykilling abortion mill is burned or bomb. Which do you prefer, a pile of bricks or a pile of dead babies? Innocent unborn babies deserve to be protected just as born children deserve to be protected. You would have no problem protecting born children if they were about to be murdered.
Rev Donald Spitz (4e167d) — 8/22/2008 @ 9:49 amSAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I am a sinner and am headed to eternal hell because of my sins. I believe you died on the cross to take away my sins and to take me to heaven. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart and take away my sins and give me eternal life.
Rev Donald Spitz wrote: You seem to imply there is something wrong if a babykilling abortion mill is burned or bomb. Which do you prefer, a pile of bricks or a pile of dead babies? Innocent unborn babies deserve to be protected just as born children deserve to be protected. You would have no problem protecting born children if they were about to be murdered.
Jesus was not an advocate of domestic terrorism.
L.N. Smithee (b048eb) — 8/22/2008 @ 9:57 amLeviticus:
Did you read any of the CAC information? Ayers doesn’t spew revolutionary crap –
His CAC grants and Obama’s handling of million$ was a power grab. A well-laid, well-funded plan to indoctrinate jr. high kids, one school at a time, under the tutelage of William Ayers. That’s in the late 90s, on – a plan to teach kids communism in a classroom setting and without government oversight. It’s no accusation – – it was their plan. Chair and co-chair. The paper trail starts at the university library.
The ‘Local School Council’ concept is a power grab, an idea by both radicals so that Ayers could personally push communist teachings to kids younger than college-level. You seem to think he’s a teacher of regular curriculum. You believe the Chicago Annenberg Challenge didn’t include Obama’s handling of millions for un-American brainwash programs. Why not just say you don’t mind their progressive un-American plans. It’s ok to teach kids and indoctrinate them into communism. Ayers is proud of it. You should be, too. That’s what the grown-up Obama has been up to.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:07 amRev Donald Spitz #84.
Ira (28a423) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:08 am1. In a democracy with an established court system, one commits a crime if he takes it upon himself to choose to bomb anything to stop what so far is deemed a lawful activity. That is why we have peaceful, civil protests. How would you like it if someone thought (perhaps correctly) that you were doing something immoral, though legal, and decided to bomb your assets?
2. Personally, I hope I’m not yet scheduled for “eternal life.”
Rev @ 9:49. No implications; detonating a bomb in a building is wrong.
Labcatcher (afe438) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:10 amSpitz and the Army of God. Great. F-off and die you fascist pig.
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:18 amI can’t believe that sniveling pig-weasel Spitz found his way here. Spitz is a disgusting lowlife. A weasel. He is an oxygen sucking puddle of spit on the bottom of shoes.
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:20 amRev. Spitz – If I owned and operated an abortion clinic I might not see anything wrong in blowing it it up, but then again, I would not own and operate an abortion clinic in the first place.
Blowing up somebody else’s propery? I have some problems with that as a method of political disagreement or demonstation of First Amendment rights no matter who is doing it.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:23 am#85
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:24 amOh but He was an advocate for war, wasn’t he LN?
Oh, look! Oiram woke up.
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:35 amI find it hypocritical to accuse Ayers of domestic terrorism and radicalism and at the same time allow him to teach in our schools. The double standard here is just pathetic.
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:40 am#93
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:43 amHi Drumwaster.
Whoa. This all got a bit too real, but I’m happy to hear my friends on the other side be so decent and uncompromising when true wackos like Spitz descend to spread their insane BS. You tell em Jumpin’ Jack K.
Peter (e70d1c) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:52 am10:40…
Another Drew (72bbba) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:53 amWhat double standard?
The teaching establishment has been advocating socialism, and conducting itself in a fascistic manner since the great unwashed hippie hordes became college lecturers and professors due to their unsuitability and lack of desire to actually go out into the economy and perform productive labor.
What double standard? The teacher’s union has always welcomed those willing to indoctrinate the future members of the People’s Workers Party.
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:56 amDrew, that’s scary. Maybe I’m not really Drumwaster.
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:57 am#95 – love2008
— Hey, at least I came clean about my former identity [Missed It By THAT Much].
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 10:59 am#96, 97.
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:13 amSo Obama is not the only one associating with terrorists. The entire teaching system are all terrorists!
No, The ONE™ is a MEHA™ – Melanin-Enhanced Hyphenated-American.
“The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one’s real and one’s declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish spurting out ink.” –George Orwell
Horatio (a549f7) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:16 am#99
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:19 amWhy didn’t you sue “Get Smart” for plagiarism, Icy? “Missed it by That much”! 🙂
“Then why:
– deny working with him when he served as co-chair of a board, launched his career at his house etc.?
– claim “their kids went to the same school” when their kids are 20 years apart in age
– say “it’s some guy in my neighborhood” rather than “we’re friends?”
I mean, if these bombings are no big deal (except to the families of the bombing victims of course), why bother concealing the relationship? Why seal the freaking CAC archives then?”
– carlitos
I’m not arguing that Obama’s pure as the driven snow; I’ve said numerous times that he’s just another politician. However, that is, in my opinion, the extent of the logical conclusions that may be drawn from Obama’s association with Ayers (per his attempted cover-up of that same association).
“Leviticus – Is there any difference to you between domestic terrorism and international terrorism, say Baader Meinhof or the Red Army Faction or Shining Path?”
– daleyrocks
No. But I do distinguish between terrorists that go out of their way to avoid human casualties and those that make it their mission in life to inflict them.
Anon:
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to prove by quoting Ayers 1970s political philosophy. That was 30 years ago – people change, if not in the core nature of their beliefs then in the way they seek to enact them. Ayers has said that his “We should have done more” remark was in reference to general anti-war activity, not the bombings the Weathermen committed.
“His CAC grants and Obama’s handling of million$ was a power grab. A well-laid, well-funded plan to indoctrinate jr. high kids, one school at a time, under the tutelage of William Ayers. That’s in the late 90s, on – a plan to teach kids communism in a classroom setting and without government oversight. It’s no accusation – – it was their plan. Chair and co-chair. The paper trail starts at the university library.”
– Vermont Neighbor
Gimme a break. Mandatory high school Economics classes that teach kids how wonderful free markets, deregulation, and globalization are – that’s fine. But teaching the principles of communism – even promoting the principles of communism – that’s “indoctrination”.
I think you seriously overestimate the potential impact of Ayers’s effort, given that American kids are inundated with capitalism on a hourly basis.
So, yeah: I will say that “I don’t mind their progressive un-American plans”… whatever the hell that means in the first place. I’ll gladly say that I’m not against kids learning that there’s an alternative to American capitalism, provided that they have the capability to decide which system they prefer when it’s time to choose.
Leviticus (d5850f) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:24 amWhat bothers me more is that his biological father had five wives and Obama has twenty Kenyan brothers and sisters. That’s not an American thing.
nk (3c7a86) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:33 amFoundations typically have staffs doing all the work mentioned in the diary. Esp. with an as large as Annenberg, there’s a team of professionals doing the work. The board reviews (frequently cursorily) and signs off on it.
It’d be somewhat surprising if Ayers and Obama did anything other than speak to one another infrequently.
jpe (08c1dd) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:36 am#103
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:36 am(Clapping) Bravo, Leviticus! Bravo!
Not every high school mandates economics and I highly doubt that in the ones that exist the students do nothing but listen to love letters written to the free market.
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:37 amYeah American kids are inundated with capitalism. Could it possibly be that said capitalism has ANYTHING to do with the comfort in which they live?
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:39 amYes please let’s offer kids the details of North Korean Juche, the Great Leap Forward, the 5 year plans, and the collectivization of the Khmer Rouge and say, “Now kids, wouldn’t any of these seem like wonderful alternatives to the capitalism I’ve been inundating you with all semester?”
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:42 amGive Ayers and his ilk the opportunity and there will never be a “time to choose” for any of the students involved. They’ll be fitted with serf’s collars when they are handed a diploma.
The CAC story will be around for a bit. It’s the only example of Obama exercising anything which might be called executive responsibility in his entire life. At the end of his exercise of rresponsibility only 43% of Chicago’s eight graders (the majority of whose entire schooling occurred during CAC’s existence) scored at or above Illinois standards for the eight grade. In 2007, after the imposition of that terribly underfunded NCLB act, 75% of Chicago’s eighth graders met Illinois standards for their grade level.
The message is simple “Get rid of Obama if you care about kids.”
Rick Ballard (0a8990) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:44 amlove2008, you don’t even know what the CAC is, the LSC’s, Obama & Ayers’ handling of money and of writing grants. They said here last night this story would be too complex. You know shit about this matter. Pick a blog or paper and try reading. Nice attempt at mischaracterising WLS’ comment from his post. But Bambi’s wheels are coming off fast, so I can imagine bedtime at the commune was stressful. Head up, ducky.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:48 amVermont Neighbor @ 86 — well stated. In just a few sentences you captured the import I was trying to make here.
I’m going to put up something else today that looks more closely at Ayers’ education “theories” — I really hesistate to call them that because it’s really nothing more than a plot to brainwash pre-college kids with revolutionary Marxism/Moaism.
WLS (26b1e5) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:48 am“No. But I do distinguish between terrorists that go out of their way to avoid human casualties and those that make it their mission in life to inflict them.”
Leviticus – You have an interesting value system. The no would have been sufficient for most people, but apparently you feel it is permissable to destroy property which does not belong to you in pursuit of whatever cause you believe in as long as you profess to make a cursory attempt to minimize the loss of life prior to the destruction of such property. Nicely done.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:51 amOne of the senior religious studies classes that actually IS mandatory in my high school is “Social Justice.” There is no American flag in the classroom but a flag of the Earth – this guy was the first person I heard the cheezy “citizen of the world” line from. Lots of posters of Che, Mother Jones, et. al. Every year he gets arrested protesting the School of the Americas.
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:54 amThank you, WLS. Hopefully the media won’t let Chicago Annenberg Challenge and Obama/Ayers’ millions in communist earmarks get as confusing as… well, as OJ’s DNA.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:55 amLeviticus wrote:
That’s not an accurate parallel. In order to be a proper simile, the anti-abortion bomber would have to say that he wasn’t sorry and that he wished he had bombed more. Simply becoming a teacher is not a redemptive act in itself, as if you couldn’t be a teacher AND a total scumbag.
(A brief aside: Here in San Francisco, a public high school vice principal has just been indicted for running a brothel.)
You don’t think it MEANS something about Obama that he was willing to suck up to Ayers and put up with his “childish revolutionary pap” in order to make his name in Illinois politics?
Obamaniacs get all hot and bothered when people make “guilt by association” arguments against Obama. Well, let’s see who B.O. rode on his rise to the top: Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Saul Alinsky…who does Obama cite as a mentor that one would be happy to name as an associate?
L.N. Smithee (b048eb) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:55 amIn response to WLS’s next post on the matter, we’ll no doubt hear Lovey’s attempts at bad/non – existent sarcasm, which will sound something like James Cagney’s character at the end of Public Enemy, screaming at the top of the building while being engulfed in flames – “LOOK AT ME, MA! TOP OF THE WORLD! HA HA HA HA!”
Dmac (874677) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:55 am#111
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:57 amYou, are a very angry neighbor, VN. Chill. Jesus loves you. 🙂
Do. you. just. never. answer. anything?
It’ s sad that uninformed best describes the Obama voter.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:01 pmI’m not sure what point you’re trying to prove by quoting Ayers 1970s political philosophy.
Well, for starters, that you’re glossing over Ayers, what he was about, and what the Weathermen did by saying they bombed empty buildings.
That was 30 years ago – people change
Leviticus, I’m at work right now, but when I get home I’ll provide you an interview the guy did with the NYT in 2001. The man is unrepentant.
Again, though, your defense of Obama notwithstanding, I really don’t think a “he’s changed” argument would work to well you or the left if it came out McCain was in a similar position with a guy who used to bomb abortion clinics.
Anon (8c4d09) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:02 pmLeviticus,
In 1995, Bill Ayers still believed everything he and Bernadine Dohrn did in the 1960s and 1970s was justified:
Ayers on teaching:
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:05 pmBaah! Real terrorists like the Viet Cong and Al Qaeda would use a pussy-ass dilletante like Bill Ayers for a sex toy before turning him into jerky for an emergency food supply. Just like Putin will do to Obama.
nk (3c7a86) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:07 pmTypo: “too well on you or the left…”
Anon (8c4d09) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:08 pm…like James Cagney’s character at the end of Public Enemy, screaming at the top of the building while being engulfed in flames – “LOOK AT ME, MA! TOP OF THE WORLD! HA HA HA HA!”
Comment by Dmac — 8/22/2008 @ 11:55 am
I think you mean “White Heat”…
Yeah, I’m a nerd.
mojo (8096f2) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:08 pmAnother Drew wrote: The teaching establishment has been advocating socialism, and conducting itself in a fascistic manner since the great unwashed hippie hordes became college lecturers and professors due to their unsuitability and lack of desire to actually go out into the economy and perform productive labor.
Also attractive about the profession is the fact that it’s nearly impossible to get fired for anything less than criminal activity.
L.N. Smithee (b048eb) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:09 pmLove your films, Mr. Smithee…
mojo (8096f2) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:17 pmDRJ,
You might want to run a filler on Obama dropping the fifty state joke. I don’t really believe he’ll stop in VA but I believe that WLS was on target regarding Obama’s excessive burn rate.
Rick Ballard (0a8990) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:19 pmLove your films, Mr. Smithee…
— Especially “DUNE”. The best collective bad-acting performance by a cast of genuinely talented actors in movie history. Thank God you took over from David Lynch, ’cause you know that left to his own devices he would’ve really screwed up that film.
[BTW, I refuse to end with a cutesy emoticon in order to “prove” that I know who Alan Smithee really is. . . . So there!]
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:32 pmThanks, Rick. Good link.
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:35 pmIcy @ 10:57…
Another Drew (72bbba) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:37 pmI have no idea who the Drummaster is, but it can’t be me, because I don’t live near Palm Springs.
And, I’ve never used any handle except my true name, and AD is just a modification, since when I first came here, there was someone else posting as “Drew”.
I’m just a non-rehabilitated Cold-Warrior who hates Marxist scum.
If Bill Ayers was on fire, I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on him.
And yes, I have a generally low opinion of the Educational Establishment in general, and Liberal Arts college professors particularly. Looking at the performance of K-12 students on standardized tests doesn’t fill me with much enthusiasm for the professionalism of that segment of education either.
I see one over-arching problem in education; which is, the ability to have both collective bargaining, and tenure. The two are incompatible, and to restore educational standards will require teachers to pick one or the other.
Sorry about being away for awhile, but I remembered I had today’s F-1 practice on tape, so I’ve got that running now. Just a small distraction to maintain what semblance of sanity I still have.
Another Drew (72bbba) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:40 pm“Leviticus – You have an interesting value system. The no would have been sufficient for most people, but apparently you feel it is permissable to destroy property which does not belong to you in pursuit of whatever cause you believe in as long as you profess to make a cursory attempt to minimize the loss of life prior to the destruction of such property. Nicely done.”
– daleyrocks
The way I see it, I’m not sunk so far into the materialist muck that I value property as much as I value human life… unlike you, apparently.
Leviticus (04a9fe) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:42 pmLeviticus — 8/22/2008 @ 11:24 am
I’ll gladly say that I’m not against kids learning that there’s an alternative to American capitalism, provided that they have the capability to decide which system they prefer when it’s time to choose.
You do realize that the ‘alternatives’ to capitalism involve the removal of choice, and the damning of preferences.
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:43 pmLeviticus,
Respecting someone’s property is part of respecting them. Once you decide their property is fair game, it’s a short hop to deciding they are, too.
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:45 pmAnd who has a better track record for valuing human life than communists after all?
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:46 pmLeviticus…
Another Drew (72bbba) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:48 pmRemember, before the Gestapo came for the Jews, the Brownshirts had their fun on Krystalnacht.
I think Leviticus is there already, he just won’t openly admit to it.
bonhomme (563056) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:49 pmDecrying materialist muck while typing away on a computer. LOL.
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:50 pmCan we all go over to Leviticus’ house and make him line up all of his materialist muck and decide for him what he does and does not deserve to own based on our values?
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:51 pmDRJ — 8/22/2008 @ 12:45 pm – Excellent comment!
Once you decide their property is fair game,
That decision is a litmus test for the left.
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:52 pm143. Any wonder why those on the left love gun control laws and mock the 2nd Amendment?
Monterey Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:55 pmFrom Wikipedia: Bernadine Dohrn:
“Millions of people chanted ‘Off the pig,’ but that didn’t mean they were going to go out nad shoot a policeman in the head. The language was inflammatory on both sides, but the reality stayed in the realm of protest. I reject the notion that we were violent.” Asked about bombings in the same interview, Dohrn said, “We only did a couple, and they were carefully done. They involved property and were not meant to harm anybody.”[10]
Dohrn has been suspected of involvement in a February 16, 1970, bombing of the Park Police Station in San Francisco, which kllled a police officer and partially blinded another, who was forced to retire on a disability.[11] At the time, Dohrn was said to be living with a Weatherman cell in a houseboat in Sausalito, California, unnamed law enforcement sources later told KRON-TV.[12] An investigation into the case was reopened in 1999,[11] and a San Francisco grand jury looked into the incident, but no indictments followed,[12] and no one was ever arrested for the bombing.[11] An FBI informant, Larry Grathwohl, who successfully penetrated the organization from the late summer of 1969 until April 1970, later testified to a U.S. Senate subcommittee that Bill Ayers, then a high-ranking member of the organization and a member of its Central Committee (but not then Dohrn’s husband), had said Dohrn constructed and planted the bomb. Grathwohl testified that Ayers had told him specifically where the bomb was placed (on a window ledge) and what kind of shrapnel was put in it. Grathwohl said Ayers was emphatic, leading Grathwohl to believe Ayers either was present at some point during the operation or had heard about it from someone who was there.[13] In a book about his experiences published in 1976, Grathwohl wrote that Ayers, who had recently attended a meeting of the group’s Central Committee, said Dohrn had planned the operation, made the bomb and placed it herself.[14] In 2008, Grathwohl’s testimony was quoted by David Freddoso in his book The Case Against Barack Obama. “Ayers and Dohrn escaped prosecution only because of government misconduct in collecting evidence against them”, Freddoso wrote.[13]
Ropelight (42c46d) — 8/22/2008 @ 12:59 pm#133 – Another Drew
I’m just a non-rehabilitated Cold-Warrior who hates Marxist scum.
— Ditto.
If Bill Ayers was on fire, I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on him.
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 1:13 pm— Oh, I would. As long as I could do it in his eyes.
I hope you all know the “misconduct” was wiretapping that was thrown out by an appeals court. Ayres should have done time like his wife did and neither should be teaching anybody, except perhaps a prison shop class.
All the Weathermen were rich kids. One of the ones blown up in that Manhattan townhouse explosion was Diane Oughten, whose family still lived in Dwight, IL last time I was down there. They had a big patent medicine factory and health cure business that made a fortune at the turn of the century. Her father was crushed by her death. He ran a restaurant in Dwight in the old family mansion and was a nice man. They were thoughtless kids. But they killed people.
Mike K (6d4fc3) — 8/22/2008 @ 1:37 pmHaw! I love how the thread drifts from talking about Obama and who he knows to William Ayers the bad guy…. which is exactly why O’s association with Ayers has been dragged up… so people stop talking about O and rehash all the old crap from the 60’s.
Let’s see how long the EVIL communist marxist “liberal” media runs with this one! (As long as they can make money off it?? Oh wait they’re liberals=communists right?).
Let’s hear more about Tony Rezco and the unstoppable Democrat (=liberal=marxist) Chicago political machine that is gonna GUARANTEE to elect thier manchurian candidate as prez. who will uh…. open the door for the Russkies to come right on in and make us collectivze all our stuff….
Wait.. either O is a Marxist and hates money and wants to bomb us all coz he’s a domestic terrorist or else he’s a mafia-capitalist who loves money and can’t wait to get into office so he can make millions on all sorts of shady deals with his Chigaco buddies…. (once he’s in the White House, if people start snooping he can just “lose” all the White House E-mails….works for the current administration).
Uh…. guys, make up your minds…is O a commie or a mafia-capitalist????
Oh crap! I forgot! Actually he’s an ISLAMO-FASCIST with his manchurian candidate secretly-a-black-panther/Black-muslim wife who is gonna be NICE to the Iranians allowing them to terrorist-bomb America with impunity..
Keep working on stories, eventually one will stick. Just make sure that its better than the one Obama’s people are eventually gonna get out there….
EdWood (c2268a) — 8/22/2008 @ 1:54 pm“Respecting someone’s property is part of respecting them. Once you decide their property is fair game, it’s a short hop to deciding they are, too.”
– DRJ
A short hop, maybe, but not an inevitable one, and there’s an enormous difference between the two.
Leviticus (d78e5e) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:01 pmEd Wood sounds like a manic – depressive, if you look at each posting and increasing hysterics. Also, much use of punctuation marks – denotes problems with self – image and confidence.
Dmac (874677) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:05 pmThere is a basic story about Barack Obama that HE has not told. It is one that would HIGHLIGHT his executive experience.
Barack Obama was Chairman of the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge for 5 years. He stepped down, but remained on the Board for the remaining two years. When the Chicago Annenberg Challenge was dissolved and integrated into the Chicago Public Education Fund, Barack Obama remained on the advisory committee until late 2003 when he announced his candidacy to seek the nomination from the Illinois Democratic party to the vacant Illinois US Senate seat.
Barack Obama did NOT mention his work with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge in his primary, nor in the general, election for the vacant IL Senate seat. Why not?
Barack Obama has not mentioned his work with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge in the primary, nor the general, in the election for the White House. He has not offered any information about these critical executive leadership years in his life. He has only answered brief questions about this time in his life. 7 years of his life to be exact.
Why is the Chicago Annenberg Challenge AND his role at the Chicago Public Education Fund nowhere to be found on his current resume?
As you can see on his own campaign site, Barack Obama leaps from “the college years” to “the poltical years” without covering any of “the private sector years”.
Why the gap in his resume? Why ignore this executive leadership experience?
Gabriel Sutherland (90b3a1) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:18 pmSorry Dmac, I just got caught up in all the hystrionic conspiracy theories followed by frothy conclusions posted over the past few months about all that’s either evil or at least bad for this great nation(Obamas, libs, the media, etc.etc).
More like OBAmanic-Mcdepressive.
I’ll eventually find a way to get back in lockstep with the good people, like you, who know that all that is good and true lies in a “free market” and a “conservative” vote. Whatever those words really mean.
EdWood (c2268a) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:26 pm#148
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:31 pmNo. Obama is a secret, evil terrorist, married to an angry, evil witch who hates America and wants to change it into a another Somalia. Obama is secretly working on a bomb, that is why he needs Ayers and his gang, to teach him a few bomb-making skills. He is going to launch this bomb on the white house. And blow it to smitherings. In its place, he will build a basketball pitch so that he and his evil cabal of American haters and secret terrorists can come and shoot up and curse the American flag. That is the secret Obama does not want you to know. But, Ha Ha!, it’s out! And I can prove it!
(Hint- have you noticed the way he seems to stare into space? He is looking at Osama Bin Laden for approval. You know, a fatherly smile of approval. Because, (lowering my voice) he is his father…wink, wink.)
Don’t say I told you.
Eddy baby, please get back on your lithium – you’ll feel much better, and you’ll also have the added benefit of not barking out of your driver’s side window at other pedestrians.
Dmac (874677) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:33 pmGabriel Sutherland wrote:
.:*Channeling love2008:*:.
Well, we don’t know about what Jesus did in the middle of his life while he was just a carpenter. Does that mean he wasn’t experienced enough to be Our Lord and Savior?? Hmmm?
L.N. Smithee (b048eb) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:35 pm#151 well duh, perhaps urkel is reluctant for the rubes to see that he espoused marxist theories to be forced on the children? I suppose he could spin that he’s a fiscal conservative since 50 THOUSAND bucks were returned when the challenge was disbanded. That’s a big savings out of 150 million or so, eh? Would enjoy an audit to strive determine just how the money was spent and who benefited. I’m sure there were no payoffs, kickbacks or featherbedding associates getting fat off the Annenberg tit. right.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:39 pmLeviticus wrote: A short hop, maybe, but not an inevitable one, and there’s an enormous difference between the two.
IMHO, the difference between the two is like the difference between the type of sex offender that befriends children, then fondles and seduces them vs. the type that abducts children, violently rapes them, and murders them.
In either case, I would not be proud to call one a friend.
L.N. Smithee (b048eb) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:40 pm156 – the org was almost certainly audited. States typically require an audit for any org over a mill or so. Re: the returned 50: it’s unclear what you think the problem w/ that is. Perhaps you could expand.
jpe (b7f2d7) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:45 pm“smitherings”? “smitherings”? Aye, carumba!
As for “basketball pitch”, your Union Jack is showing.
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 2:48 pmIcy Truth wrote: As for “basketball pitch”, your Union Jack is showing.
OFF ON A TANGENT ALERT!
Am I the only one annoyed when the play-by-play guys covering basketball games refer to an overhand throw of the basketball from one end of the court to the other as a “baseball pass”?
HELLO! There are no “passes” in baseball, and throwing a ball from one side of a rectangular court to someone on the other side is exactly like a football pass!
OK, I feel better now.
L.N. Smithee (b048eb) — 8/22/2008 @ 3:57 pmAs for “basketball pitch”, your Union Jack is showing.
British colonial would explain a lot. Especially the oily subservient manner nine times out of ten, the vicious backbiting the tenth time, and the half-assed Christianity.
nk (3c7a86) — 8/22/2008 @ 4:23 pm#153
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/22/2008 @ 4:24 pm“Smithereens”. Not “Smitherings”. Thanks for pointing that out, Icy. #159.
“Basket ball pitch”, “basket ball court”, who cares? Semantics.
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/22/2008 @ 4:36 pmL.N. Smithee –
I’d rather hear “baseball pass” 50 times during a game than have to hear crap like “They move well without the ball” even once.
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 4:49 pmAccuracy vs. kinda close. Who cares?
Icy Truth (48f459) — 8/22/2008 @ 4:51 pm#165
love2008 (1b037c) — 8/22/2008 @ 5:01 pmYour point, exactly?
158- why the lack of transparency then? Why pull the records after initially giving the ok to peruse. Some of us are interested in the work product of that dynamic duo of ayers and obama. Rumors indicate some less than American ideals for the education of the children, as in commie indoctrination. Given that Chitown is big on corruption, graft, payoffs and skimming funds, it is natural to be concerned about the use of that $150 mil. Who benefited? Was it like the proposed future Obama funneling to dem groups like Soros in tne guise of broad public interests?
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/22/2008 @ 5:25 pm“I’m not sure what point you’re trying to prove by quoting Ayers 1970s political philosophy. That was 30 years ago – people change, if not in the core nature of their beliefs then in the way they seek to enact them. Ayers has said that his “We should have done more” remark was in reference to general anti-war activity, not the bombings the Weathermen committed.”
Leviticus, here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63
In fairness, he does now say in the article “kill all rich people…” was a “joke”…even though he says he doesn’t remember saying it…but I guess he somehow still remembers it was a “joke.”
Also, from the article:
Anon (db8e0c) — 8/22/2008 @ 5:28 pmAnd I get yelled at for saying “IF”.
oiram (08ed42) — 8/22/2008 @ 5:37 pmAudited financials are public record.
Request them if you want them that badly.
jpe (bd88bc) — 8/22/2008 @ 5:55 pmAnon wrote: In fairness, [Ayers] does now say in the article “kill all rich people…” was a “joke”…even though he says he doesn’t remember saying it…but I guess he somehow still remembers it was a “joke.”
.:*Channeling a typical Ayers/Dohrn defender*:.
“Kill all rich people,” “Kill your parents,” “Off the pigs,” it was all a joke! Don’t you squares have a sense of humor?
I mean, what do you think could have happened in the sixties? A bunch of doped-up, ragged, grungy hippies are going to invade a Beverly Hills mansion and start stabbing pregnant starlets while singing the Beatles’ “Helter Skelter”?
…………Oh, that actually happened?
…………Sorry, man. I didn’t remember. It’s all kind of a blur to me…
L.N. Smithee (b048eb) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:09 pmjpe wrote: Audited financials are public record.
Request them if you want them that badly.
OK, let’s try this again, since you must have misunderstood the first time the question was asked:
Hopefully, the bold font helps.
L.N. Smithee (b048eb) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:11 pmSmithee, [I realize you’re joking, but] funny you should mention that.
From NYT:
Anon (db8e0c) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:13 pmThe AP reports that the UofI-Chicago will release the records on Tuesday. Just what we need during the Demotwat convention — a smoking-gun subplot!
Icy Truth (9e8038) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:18 pmhttp://www.michellemalkin.com has interesting lead story about Obama’s $800,000 payment to ACORN through “Citizen Service, Inc.” Now the dude is seeking to amend his reporting requirements. A new kind of pol? Yeah, right.
I guess we can trust the libs not to have redacted anything in the U-Chi records?
The trolls will find something on McCain to show moral equivalency, but I think McCain really was not in deep doo doo with Keating 5. Funny how asshat Murtha is on tape talking to FBI and the good citizens of his Pa. district are fine with ot as long as he brings homes the bacon. Ditto for William “Cold Cash” Jefferson and that former judge in Dade who was impeached and Nancy P’s initial pick to head Intelligence Comm. There oughta be a law against crooks benefiting through public office or being eligible for election.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:41 pm@ 6:41pm
You know it. It’s all about consistency. Like Rev. Wright is just a crazy, harmless old uncle. Could never disown the guy. Never.
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/22/2008 @ 6:46 pmMy sporting pet peeve is when the announcers say a basketball player can really score the ball. You score points, you shoot the ball. Ack. Nails on a chalkboard every time.
JD (5f0e11) — 8/22/2008 @ 7:00 pmAnon – 8/22/2008 @ 6:13 pm
I find Dohrn and Ayers disgusting, and associations with people like this have an absolute relevance to the character of Obama, despite his adoring fans’ attempts at distraction.
I was alive and in Los Angeles during the summer of ’69, and frankly cannot understand how anyone could hold such an inhuman and offensive opinion.
Apogee (366e8b) — 8/22/2008 @ 7:04 pmMaybe they mean score the ball with net marks. Passing thru the hoop. Dunno. Sounds magical..
Vermont Neighbor (a066ed) — 8/22/2008 @ 7:06 pmApogee – Don’t be afraid to say what you think 😉
JD (5f0e11) — 8/22/2008 @ 7:10 pmAnon @ 6:13…
Another Drew (72bbba) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:22 pmThat “victim’s stomach” was the pregnant belly of Sharon Tate.
And some wonder why the Manson Family is continually denied parole.
Sharon Tate was 8 and 1/2 months pregnant when she was murdered:
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/22/2008 @ 8:32 pmmadmax333 wrote: There oughta be a law against crooks benefiting through public office or being eligible for election.
You’re right, of course. The problem is…who would be the persons who would have to pass that law?
L.N. Smithee (452a68) — 8/22/2008 @ 11:00 pm