Patterico's Pontifications

7/28/2023

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:08 am



[guest post by Dana and JVW]

Let’s go!

First news item [Dana]

Given President Biden’s age (80) and frequent behaviors that come with being an octogenarian, his team is now working to find ways to provide him cover, and thus prevent Republicans from exploiting the vulnerability:

Joe Biden’s aides realized they had a problem last month when the president tripped over a sandbag — hard — at the Air Force Academy’s graduation ceremony. Afterward…a few aides tried…make sure that such an embarrassing and dangerous incident “never happens again,” according to two people familiar with the discussion…

In a preview of what voters will see more of if Biden wins re-election and serves into his mid-80s, the White House seems to be making concessions to his age. An iconic image of the modern presidency is the chief executive walking up the stairs to a majestic Air Force One, then turning at the doorway and waving. More and more, Biden is forgoing the long staircase for the shorter stairway that takes him up through the plane’s belly.

Biden seems to be preserving his energy in other ways. It’s customary on foreign trips for the president to schmooze with other leaders at dinners once the meetings are over. Less formal and structured than the events preceding them, the dinners offer a chance for leaders to bond, talk through differences or amplify a point. On two recent international trips, Biden has chosen to skip the nighttime socializing…Other age-compensating measures are logistical…: extra-large font on his teleprompter and note cards to remind him of the points he wants to make in meetings.

President Biden is no exception to experiencing age-related issues. But being the Chief Executive complicates these normal events.

Meanwhile, Wednesday morning Mitch McConnell (81 years old) was lead away after he froze while making remarks about a policy bill. It was unsettling to watch as it appeared as if he experienced some sort of medical episode, given his lack of responsiveness. It was also jarring that those around him didn’t seem to have a sense of urgency about what was happening:

According to the report:

A few minutes later, McConnell walked back to the news conference by himself. When asked about his health, he said he was fine. Asked whether he is fully able to do his job, McConnell said, “Yeah.”

Asked about the episode, a McConnell aide pointed to the GOP leader saying, “I’m fine,” but the aide added that McConnell “felt lightheaded and stepped away for a moment.”

“He came back to handle Q&A, which as everyone observed was sharp,” the aide said.

A physician’s reminder:

Senator McConnell had a TBI in March. Reminder from a Brain Injury PM&R doc that head injuries can cause chronic sequela (including seizures that may look like this).
If you were to see something like this, call 911 & make sure they get evaluated.

Second news item [Dana]

Because Russia pulled out of the deal that allowed Ukraine to transport grain via the Black Sea, the U.S. is working to find alternative ways to deliver grain throughout the world:

“We are working with our EU partners, we’re working with Ukraine and other European partners to see if there’s other ways to get grain to market over land. But that’s not as efficient,” John Kirby, a spokesperson for the US National Security Council, told reporters at the White House Wednesday.
“The best way for this grain to get to market is through maritime lanes,” he said. “But we’re working to see what we can do.”

Hardest hit by Russia’s weaponization of food security will be developing countries where the need is the greatest. The United Nations estimates that up to 49 million people will be forced into famine or famine-like conditions because of Russia’s vile actions.

Third news item [JVW]
On Monday we lost Sinéad O’Connor: singer, songwriter, activist, brief supporter of the Provisional IRA, priest(ess) in a fake Catholic sect, Muslim convert, four-time bride, mother of four children, and someone who clearly struggled with mental health issues. She was big in my teen years until her psychological issues and the pressures of being a star caused it all to implode and sidelined her career. She continued to record and tour, though she never recaptured the magic of her early successes. Her cause of death has not been released, though the London Metropolitan Police say that the death is not being treated as suspicious.

I wasn’t any real fan of hers: I preferred Prince’s original version of her biggest hit, “Nothing Compares 2 U” and nothing else in her oeuvre really did much for me. But I appreciate the fact that she was consistent in her feminist beliefs and was not afraid to be accused of “slut-shaming” or “prudery” when she publicly expressed her distaste at the way Miley Cyrus was using raunchy titillation to advance her career. Ms. Cyrus and her fans reacted dismissively, as one might expect and lament, yet her career has certainly cooled as she has reached 30, much as Ms. O’Connor had forewarned. Gone too early, and here’s wishing Sinéad O’Connor the peace in the Hereafter that she failed to find in life.

Fourth news item [JVW]
All the best salons in Europe repeatedly find themselves verklempt when those pesky citizens insist upon electing leaders who don’t want to bend the knee to the edicts and whims of the European Union. Generally speaking, the EUreaucracy and their allies here in the U.S. dismiss these new leaders with typical epithets such as “hard-right” or “far-right,” as if to delegitimize them in the eyes of all proper-thinking people. On Thursday, the new Italian Prime Minister, Giorgia Meloni, visited our rapidly-diminishing President who had used her election this past fall as a warning to his fellow Democrats of the dire consequences of the rising right. And though the idiot media were happy to apply the “far-right” descriptor on his guest, the President found himself thanking PM Meloni for her stalwart support of Ukraine as well as her skepticism regarding China’s desire for closer ties with her country. Naturally the AP article linked to in the previous sentence describes Ms. Meloni as “far-right” no fewer than three times, just in case we aren’t paying attention. But maybe just maybe the fools and dunderheads who staff the Biden Administration all the way from the reception desk to the Resolute Desk might stop to realize that getting it right on the big things (China, Ukraine) is far more important than getting it right on the little things (transgender locker rooms).

Fifth news item [JVW]
Bad times continue at Anheuser-Busch over the Bud Light fracas. Yesterday they announced a two percent reduction in their corporate workforce as sales of their top-selling beer continue to flag. This comes out to nearly 400 jobs. Understanding that the origin of their woes was a ridiculously stupid marketing department, the corporation has made a point not to reduce headcount in brewing, warehousing, distribution, or sales, and they have gone as far as to subsidize their wholesalers who have seen their summer sales projections go into the tank. Conservatives have long overplayed the whole “get woke, go broke” phenomenon, as companies such as Nike or Apple who court controversy often take very short-term hits but quickly recover. In this case, conversely, it seems pretty inarguable that an executive with a big mouth combined with somebody’s boneheaded decision to pursue a partnership with a troubled social media influencer has led to nearly twenty-score employees being pink-slipped. Perhaps corporate America might learn a lesson from this.

Sixth News Item [JVW]
Mick Jagger turned 80 on Wednesday. I had forgotten that he’s a few months older than my mother. Rest assured, the two are worlds apart in temperament and lifestyle. He’s certainly an interesting character, more so than even the immortal Keith Richards, partly because he was so self-conscious about being a rock star, in an age when his peers wanted everybody to believe that they were just ordinary folks. Christopher Sandford relates some interesting anecdotes in The Spectator:

“I used to go to the Ready Steady Go! studio,” Jagger recalls of the venerable British Friday night musical variety show. “The [Rolling Stones] weren’t even playing, but I’d go down there so I could get an idea of where the cameras were, and get to know the angles, and then I’d go home and practice my moves for the next time when we were on.”

While at the London School of Economics studying the dismal science with an eye on a future in the British ministry (as in bureaucracy), on a cold autumn day in 1961 the prospective civil servant met the vampiric guitarist on a platform at the Dartford Train Station. In short order they had formed a band. A few months earlier, upon leaving grammar school, Mick’s headmaster had written the following assessment of him which still rings true over 60 years later:

Jagger is a lad of good general character, though he has been rather slow to mature. The pleasing quality which is now emerging is that of persistence when he makes up his mind to tackle something. His interests are extremely wide.

Belated birthday wishes to him. Since we’re celebrating his birthday and not a band milestone, I’ll salute him with a song from one of his solo albums:

Seventh News Item [JVW]
World Cup action from Down Under: after the success of the U.S. Women’s National Team in winning major concessions on pay and working conditions from U.S. Soccer, other national squads comprised of birthing people are attempting to follow suit. This includes the hostesses of Australia, who kind of delusionally expect to receive prize money from the tournament organizers commensurate with the men. Our neighbors to the north, like their U.S. rivals, are more successful on the pitch than their male counterparts yet still lag behind them in pay. The English women’s team doesn’t have an arrangement with their federation for performance bonuses at all, so the Lionesses only receive bonus money from the tournament organizers, FIFA, based upon how strongly they finish. South Africa apparently resolved their dispute with their soccer federation. Beyond pay issues, teams from France, Spain, and Haiti have issues with either their coaches or their nation’s federation officials, or even both. Most dramatically, Norway’s star player Ada Hegerberg was a curious last-minute scratch during the team’s first game against Switzerland. Ms. Hegerberg had first played for the Norwegian women’s team twelve years ago at the tender age of 15. She left the national team in 2017, citing issues with the Norwegian Football Federation’s lack of financial support and developmental opportunities for female players. She returned to the team last year to prepare for this year’s tournament, so her decision to remove herself prior to the first game citing tightness in her groin had to strike fans as highly suspect. We will see if she appears in any of Norway’s upcoming matches.

I mean, dames. Sheeesh.

Bonus News Item [JVW]

I know that the Babylon Bee is not everybody’s cup of tea, but I do find their humor to be pretty on point, even when I don’t necessarily agree with the premise. This clip is apparently a few weeks old, but I only encountered it recently. I especially like the small touches that you will notice, such as the Chief Diversity Officer wearing a rainbow flag pin instead of a U.S. flag pin on her lapel. Enjoy (I hope).

Have a tremendous weekend.

– Dana and JVW

420 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. RIP bassist and Eagles co-founder Randy Meisner (77). Also played briefly with Poco and Rick Nelson’s Stone Country Band.

    The Scottsbluff, Neb., native formed the Eagles in 1971 in tandem with Glenn Frey, Don Henley, and Bernie Leadon, and was a key contributor to their decade-long run of best-selling albums such as Desperado, On the Border, One of Those Nights, and Hotel California. He co-wrote and sang the 1975 hit single “Take It to the Limit,” and also handled lead vocals on the songs “Certain Kind of Fool,” “Try and Love Again,” “Take the Devil,” and “Is It True?”

    Rip Murdock (44fc19)

  2. Good News for Bronny James:

    ……….
    “Thanks to the swift and effective response by the USC athletics’ medical staff, Bronny James was successfully treated for a sudden cardiac arrest,” Merije Chukumerije, the consulting cardiologist for James, said in a statement through Cedars-Sinai that was released on Thursday. “He arrived at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center fully conscious, neurologically intact and stable. Mr. James was cared for promptly by highly-trained staff and has been discharged home, where he is resting.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (44fc19)

  3. Good News for Bronny James:

    I wonder what the long-term prognosis is for him, though. I am around the same age as the late Hank Gathers, and I remember when he collapsed and died on the court at Loyola Marymount. But it is certainly true that Bronny was lucky to be at a world-class university with a very strong presence in the medical field.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  4. Mick sang Evening Gown at the tender age of 64, if my math is correct, and it ain’t bad. It has a Far Away Eyes and Wild Horses feel.

    Dana, regarding Ukraine and grain, Zeihan has an informative episode on the subject. The alternate approaches to delivering grain are much more challenging, time-consuming and expensive. One example is that the vessels on the Danube can only carry 10k cubic meters of product while an ocean-going container can transit 100k cubic meters.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  5. Mick sang Evening Gown at the tender age of 64, if my math is correct, and it ain’t bad. It has a Far Away Eyes and Wild Horses feel.

    That album that “Evening Gown” comes from, Wandering Spirit, came out in 1993 when Mick was a mere 49 (younger than I am today, yikes!). It was right after the Stones had finished their Steel Wheels tour but before they started work on Voodoo Lounge. I always really liked that album of Mick’s.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  6. Keeping It Classy:

    Rep. Derrick Van Orden (R-Wis.) is in hot water after he cursed out a group of teenage Senate pages in the Capitol rotunda early Thursday morning.
    ………..
    The pages are a group of 16- and 17-year-olds who assist Senate operations, and when the Senate works late — as it did Wednesday night on National Defense Authorization Act amendments — pages generally rest nearby in the rotunda.

    “Wake the f‑‑‑ up you little s‑‑‑‑. … What the f‑‑‑ are you all doing? Get the f‑‑‑ out of here. You are defiling the space you [pieces of s‑‑‑],” Van Orden said, according to the account provided by the page.

    “Who the f‑‑‑ are you?” Van Orden asked, to which one person said they were Senate pages. “I don’t give a f‑‑‑ who you are, get out.”

    “You jackasses, get out,” he added.
    ……….
    (On the Senate floor, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said) “I understand that late last night, a member of the House majority thought it appropriate to curse at some of these young people — these teenagers — in the rotunda. I was shocked when I heard about it, and I am further shocked at his refusal to apologize to these young people,” ……..
    …………
    Van Orden did not dispute the exchange and defended his actions when asked by The Hill.
    ………..

    I’m glad to see Van Orden not apologizing or making excuses for his remarks, unlike most politicians. Others would claim to be “sorry if someone was offended”, “misinterpreted” or blame drinking.

    Apparently the pages were lying on the floor taking photos of the Capitol dome interior.

    Rip Murdock (44fc19)

  7. But it is certainly true that Bronny was lucky to be at a world-class university with a very strong presence in the medical field.

    Yet they took him to Cedars, some distance away.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  8. Gone too early, and here’s wishing Sinéad O’Connor the peace in the Hereafter that she failed to find in life.

    That is beautiful, JVW.

    No Junior Varsity Writing today!

    norcal (0bd666)

  9. Apropos of nothing:

    Yesterday, I traded in my 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid for a 2023 Hyundai Tuscon Hybrid. Similar car types, similar trim levels, but a bunch of new features in the 2023 car. Then I happened to look at the original sales contract for the 2009 care, and it was within $100 of what I paid for the new one. Fifteen years later.

    Go figure.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  10. JVW (1ad43e) — 7/28/2023 @ 12:37 pm

    Of course it depends on what caused the cardiac arrest. It is far more likely than not Bronny had undiagnosed heart defect, since he was not struck in the chest like Damar Hamlin.

    ………..
    The leading cause in the U.S. (for sudden cardiac arrest (SCA)) is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, while congenital coronary artery anomaly is the second. Both of these conditions make it harder for the heart to pump blood to the rest of the body.

    “Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is a disease of the heart muscle. It starts to become too thick and stiff for blood to fill the heart and be pumped out effectively,” (John P. Higgins, MD, MBA, MPhil, professor of cardiovascular medicine with McGovern Medical School at UTHealth Houston and sports cardiologist with the Houston Rockets) said. “Some hypertrophic cardiomyopathy patients are predisposed to ventricular arrhythmia and SCA.”
    ……………
    Most SCA cases are due to genetics rather than injuries.

    “Most of the conditions that can lead to sudden cardiac arrest in young athletes are hereditary. A person can be born with a hereditary or congenital heart condition that is never detected,” he said.
    …………
    “For student athletes, screening was normally just medical history questions and a physical exam. The data shows that history and physicals will only detect 5% to 25% of cases of athletes that have underlying conditions associated with SCA,” the cardiologist said. “In other words, with traditional screening you’re going to miss most of them.”
    ………….

    Another study I saw said that 83% of student athlete SCA incidents occurred in the presence of others, which is no doubt why Bronny was able to receive the outstanding care that saved his life.

    Rip Murdock (44fc19)

  11. Link to excerpt in post 10.

    Rip Murdock (44fc19)

  12. Kevin M (2d6744) — 7/28/2023 @ 1:52 pm

    Probably because it is a level 1 trauma center (and affiliated with UCLA!)

    Rip Murdock (44fc19)

  13. Ron desatan caught using state vehicles to campaign in tennessee after auto accident. Desatan says Its legal I had the republicans in the legislature pass a law allowing me to campaign for president using state vehicles. I only got caught because accident was out of state so it got found out that I was using state of floriduh vehicle s in my campaign. Hey I am hurting for money right now.

    asset (0c380b)

  14. Apropos of nothing:

    What have the cost of the Escape in today’s dollars?

    Rip Murdock (44fc19)

  15. @Kevin@9 Congrats on the new car. How’s the drive feel in comparison with the Escape? (my car is 13 yrs old, so I’m vaguely looking, though not serious yet.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  16. Sinking Like A Rock:

    Former President Donald Trump holds a 30-point lead over Florida Governor Ron DeSantis in a multi-candidate ballot in News Hampshire, according to the latest National Research Inc. survey of 500 likely New Hampshire Republican Primary voters.
    ………..
    Governor DeSantis’ numbers have trended downward over the spring and summer, starting at 18 percent in May to 11 percent in late July. Trump has held relatively steady, clocking in at 41 percent in late July, while Scott and Christie (at 8 percent each) are both within striking distance of second place. A full 15 percent of likely New Hampshire Republican Primary voters are still undecided.
    …………
    The survey also shows that Trump enjoys a 23-point advantage over DeSantis on empathy toward Republican voters and a 14-point advantage on the “best chance of beating Joe Biden.”
    ………….

    The NH RCP average has Trump +24 over DeSantis; +35 over Christie and Scott; and +37 over Ramaswamy, Haley, Burgum.

    Rip Murdock (44fc19)

  17. The fired Chinese foreign minister really was having an affair — with a Chinese TV personality. She posted online about their child together and I guess it got to be too well known.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  18. cConnell had either a small stroke or absence seizure.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  19. McConnell had either a small stroke or absence seizure.

    Or low blood pressure giving him a feeling that he was about to faint. Something everybody experiences at one time or another.

    nk (9aa7ee)

  20. I’ve been a huge Stones fan since “Start Me Up” came out when I was in high school. Around that same time, I remember the trailer for Apocalypse Now featuring Laurence Fishburn dancing to “Satisfaction” on a military boat. Those are two of their top ten songs, and I was hooked.

    I concur that Mick is more interesting than Keith. He’s also more guarded, which may add to the interest. Mick strikes me as wickedly smart and shrewd. I’ve even heard that he does the books when the Stones are on tour.

    I agree with Bill Wyman that Mick is the best front man in rock history.

    norcal (0bd666)

  21. Highly recommend the Stones first documentary, Charlie is My Darling (clips here). Produced by their manager Andrew Loog Oldham, it was designed to get the Stones used to being filmed and served as a calling card for investors. It was shot during the Stones second tour of Ireland in 1965.

    The concert scenes are wild, as they were in the 60s. Girls would charge the stage to try and tackle Bill Wyman. The crowd so loud they might as well been playing next to a jet engine.

    There’s a really poignant scene where the bandmates are asked about their futures, made more poignant with fact that Brian Jones would be dead four years later.

    Rip Murdock (44fc19)

  22. It’s also on Amazon Prime.

    Rip Murdock (44fc19)

  23. It’s also on Amazon Prime.

    Rip Murdock (44fc19) — 7/28/2023 @ 3:47 pm

    I will look for it the next time I have Prime.

    norcal (0bd666)

  24. So a “General Authority” (a designation for the very top leadership) of the Mormon church sits next to Mick Jagger on plane.

    http://moroni10.com/cook_meets_jagger.html

    Don’t be sipping coffee while you read this.

    norcal (0bd666)

  25. It OK with everybody that ron desatan is using state of floriduh tax payer funded vehicles and resources to supplement his campaign funds?

    asset (0c380b)

  26. Probably one of your best comments, asset.

    BuDuh (dfb4c6)

  27. Biden Acknowledges Hunter’s Daughter for the First Time
    ………….
    “Our son Hunter and Navy’s mother, Lunden, are working together to foster a relationship that is in the best interests of their daughter, preserving her privacy as much as possible going forward,” Biden said in a statement released Friday evening by the White House. “This isn’t a political issue, it’s a family matter. Jill and I only want what is best for all of our grandchildren, including Navy.” People Magazine earlier reported the statement.
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  28. Biden Acknowledges Hunter’s Daughter for the First Time

    Why now and not before?

    norcal (0bd666)

  29. @asset@26 I think the Florida tax payers get to decide if it is OK with them or not. I don’t know enough about the Florida Gubenatorial transportation system to have an opinion really.

    @norcal@29 Politics or some kind of legal resolution, though probably some kind of legal resolution. If it was political pressure he probably would’ve said something earlier.

    Nic (896fdf)

  30. https://news.yahoo.com/chip-roy-reviving-ron-desantis-111251176.html

    Rep. Chip Roy, R-Texas, will introduce a bill hold universities accountable for unpaid student debt, reviving a component from a bill that Ron DeSantis introduced in 2017 when he served as a member of Congress.

    The education bill would require colleges to pay an annual fine based on the overall amount of outstanding federal loans among their students in default — they would be liable for 15% minus the average national unemployment rate for that year. It also features other reforms, including requiring more transparency about repayment rates.

    “Look, these universities have to have some skin in the game,” Roy said before sharing the legislation with Semafor.

    DeSantis has also referenced his work on the policy since launching his campaign, saying it would push schools to emphasize job skills. “If they were responsible for guaranteeing the debts of the students, then they would change their curriculum,” he said at an event in South Carolina this month. “They would not be able to offer post-Marxist gender studies, because that’s not leading to anything.”

    The bill, Roy said, would provide a Republican counter to President Biden’s student debt program, which was intended to provide borrowers up to $20,000 in one-time relief before being struck down by the Supreme Court.

    Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, will introduce the companion bill in the Senate and said in a statement it would help young people who “needlessly face the unfair choice of either drowning in debt or sacrificing their dreams of higher education.”

    A necessary start to getting student debt under control.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  31. Why now and not before?

    Mama’s baby, daddy’s maybe. Hunter denied it. Paternity was decided by a court.

    nk (95c1a6)

  32. The cynic in me suspects that the unacknowledged granddaughter issue didn’t fare well in focus groups and/or this is a way to distract from all of the recent Joe and Hunter follies.

    I believe the paternity has been known for quite some time.

    norcal (0bd666)

  33. My parents would have made me marry the woman. My mother would have given her gold.

    They would not have cared about any DNA matches. It would have been enough that I had “compromised” her by being with her under circumstances which could make me the father.

    Way before Trump turned the term “conservative” into a joke, I used to laugh at American “conservatives” and their “family values”. Next to Greeks of my parents’ generation, they know nothing about conservative family values.

    nk (fa989a)

  34. And yet, if the election were held tomorrow, the candidates were Biden and Trump, and it was polling close in my state, I would vote for Biden.

    Nothing that Biden has done approaches what Trump has done and continues to do when it comes to weakening our Republic.

    norcal (0bd666)

  35. Next to Greeks of my parents’ generation, they know nothing about conservative family values.

    nk (fa989a) — 7/28/2023 @ 7:13 pm

    I had a very good friend my sophomore year in high school who was Greek. This was in Salt Lake County. His parents didn’t even speak much English. I believe his father worked at the Bingham Copper Mine. Met many of his friends and relatives. A tight knit bunch who ribbed each other with gusto. It seems that many of their fathers came to the U.S. to work at that mine.

    This friend taught me how to play backgammon. Great guy.

    norcal (0bd666)

  36. @nk@34 Two of my uncles had that happen (Irish Catholic, early 1980s). It did not work out great for either of them, though one stuck it out until what will be the end in the next few years. All the kids from those marriages are troubled.

    Nic (896fdf)

  37. Why now and not before?

    The polling showed that it undermined the whole campaign message of Joe being a super-swell guy who is family first and then, and only then, about political considerations. So now he has to embrace the little girl even if it’s inconvenient.

    The time to accept Navy Joan was four years ago when the little girl was born. Fuck that guy, and fuck his dysfunctional family.

    Can the little girl now get the Biden name and if so, how much of this has to do with the political peril that the crackhead Caravaggio finds himself in? These are just very trashy people.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  38. Naming the kid Navy probably did not help.

    Ann-Margret: Why do they call you Handsome Stranger?
    Arnold Schwarzenegger: I was named after my father.
    Ann-Margret: Was he handsome, too?,
    Arnold Schwarzenegger: I don’t know, I never met him.”

    nk (fa989a)

  39. The Oakland NAACP does something brave — and wise:

    OAKLAND, Calif. – The Oakland NAACP has called on city leaders to declare a state of emergency due to rising crime, calling the situation a “crisis,” and has urged residents across the city to speak out against it.

    The group, alongside Bishop Bob Jackson of the Acts Full Gospel Church, issued the statement on Thursday, blasting both city and county officials, as well as social justice movements.

    Ever since I worked in a slum school on the west side of Chicago more than 50 years ago, I have known that most of the victims of black criminals are also black*. And that crime often causes poverty. But those are things you won’t hear said by the leftists on Martha’s Vineyard.

    (*That is true of other groups. According to reports I’ve seen, most of Bernie Madoff’s victims were other Jews. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the Mafia mostly vitimizes Italians. And so on.)

    Jim Miller (bbe3be)

  40. I’m with #35. And my vote matters here in Georgia.

    Appalled (4520ce)

  41. Can the little girl now get the Biden name

    Once she gets the name then the alleged crime family, that has strengthened our Republic (nothing alleged about that), they will have to cut her in on China’s alleged bribe money. The Big Guy’s alleged 10% cannot be shaved for some DNA blob.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wNd0gzGpLU0

    BuDuh (48896e)

  42. nk – When I was growing up on a farm more than 60 years ago, it was accepted by everyone I knew that, if you got a girl pregnant, you had to marry her.

    Apparently, something similar was true in John DiIulio’s neighborhood.

    He tells a story of how a boy in that neighborhood got a girl pregnant, and didn’t come up with an offer of marriage, as expected. The parents asked the local Mafia boss for help. He called the boy in for a little talk — and the boy showed up at the girl’s home with an engagement ring, almost immediately.

    Jim Miller (c5e90f)

  43. What is the cost of the Escape in today’s dollars?

    $36K (2008) = $51K (2023)

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  44. And the corollary to that, Jim, was that the boys’ parents would warn their sons to keep away from the wrong kind of girls because of the danger that they could be trapped into marrying them.

    I was growing up on a farm more than 60 years ago, too.

    nk (fa989a)

  45. @Kevin@9 Congrats on the new car. How’s the drive feel in comparison with the Escape? (my car is 13 yrs old, so I’m vaguely looking, though not serious yet.)

    There are differences. Like many (all?) newer cars, crash safety has improved but visibility has gotten worse (necessitating some of the warning systems). I’m considering a digital RV “mirror” add-on — the backup camera is limited to just that. The displays are, of course, infinitely better and the A/C is quite strong (needed in the New Mexico summer).

    The hybrid version of the Tuscon has significantly more power than the gas-only version, as well as 10MPG better EPA numbers. It handles about the same, corners with confidence (there are stability systems that affect this). The ride seems a bit better (one day’s driving) and of course all the rattles and tiny defects of a 15yo car are gone.

    I’d been looking at this car since the 2022 redesign, but there were not a lot of 2022 cars built, and when Consumers put the hybrid version on the cover and gave it a 95 rating, it has been hard to come by even this year. I was lucky to pay sticker.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  46. It OK with everybody that ron desatan is using state of floriduh tax payer funded vehicles and resources to supplement his campaign funds?

    I would like to know how much his campaign reimburses the state. Some of those expenses would be covered no matter what (e.g. security, even if he was vacationing in Majorca). The motorcades in New Hampshire ought to be covered by the campaign though.

    What are Florida Democrats saying?

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  47. “Based on the evidence I’ve seen so far, I think the number is going to be north of $50 million that we’re talking about here,” Rep. Nancy Mace, R-S.C., said Friday on “Mornings with Maria.”

    “This will go down as one of the most politically corrupt presidents and families in U.S. history,” she added. “And we’ve got to show and prove it to the American people. We’ve got to show them everything that we have.”

    Other committee members have signaled that up to $100 million flowed through the then-second family, as Hunter Biden and his foreign business dealings are currently at the center of a criminal probe…

    … It’s enormous,” Mace said of the Biden family’s profits. “It’s mind-boggling that the DOJ, the FBI, the IRS has sat on their hands and done absolutely nothing when they’ve seen that kind of money flowing through dozens and dozens of shell companies.”

    “The bribes, the payoffs, the money laundering, the racketeering, everything that’s been going on, and no one in that family has been held accountable. And it’s wrong,” she continued….

    … Mace emphasized that the president “should be getting nervous right now” as evidence starts “adding up.”…

    … “We’ve got to use every tool in our toolbox because the American people don’t trust Congress. And we have to show every single piece of evidence so that they can trust the evidence,” she noted. “They can trust the truth when we deliver it to them with all the evidence that is becoming overwhelming….

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/gop-rep-nancy-mace-claims-biden-family-recieved-influence-peddling-scheme

    She better get this so-called “evidence” to Rip and Paul STAT!!

    I mean, that is the normal congressional investigation process, right?

    BuDuh (48896e)

  48. The evidence is clear that Nancy Mace has learned to talk in complete sentences. Congratulations to her parents and to her pre-school.

    nk (fa989a)

  49. nk – Several years ago, I read that the NBA was giving a similar talk to rookies, although they were warning them about avoiding 18 or more years of child support, rather than an unhappy marriage.

    Jim Miller (c5e90f)

  50. As I’ve said, extraordinary claims:

    “Based on the evidence I’ve seen so far, I think the number is going to be north of $50 million that we’re talking about here,” Rep. Nancy Mace, R-S.C., said Friday on “Mornings with Maria.”

    ……….. We’ve got to show them everything that we have.”

    Other committee members have signaled that up to $100 million flowed through the then-second family, as Hunter Biden and his foreign business dealings are currently at the center of a criminal probe…

    require extraordinary proof. Apparently they have the evidence already, (or Rep. Mace wouldn’t say those things, right?) so why won’t they release it? Where are the hearings?

    Do you also notice that the members of the House Judiciary and Oversight Committees can’t seem to agree on a number? A range of $50M is pretty wide.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  51. What are Florida Democrats saying?

    Kevin M (2d6744) — 7/29/2023 @ 7:22 am

    It really doesn’t matter-the State Senate is 38-12 Republican and the House is 83-35 (2 vacancies) Republican.

    Like California, but the opposite.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  52. so why won’t they release it? Where are the hearings?

    https://media.tenor.com/4Y2w2-qlG8wAAAAC/baby-bird-baby-bird-hungry.gif

    BuDuh (48896e)

  53. @49, if that’s true why haven’t they presented this evidence in a formal referral to the DOJ to investigate? That is the normal process when Congress finds evidence of a crime. They take the evidence and send that evidence to the DOJ.

    Doing that would be good. It would put the allegations of criminality by Joe on paper where they could be clearly proven or not.

    It would also force the DOJ to formally respond.

    Time123 (413640)

  54. Here is Aaron Blake’s latest ranking of the top ten Republican presidential candidates:

    10. Asa Hutchinson
    9. Doug Burnum
    8. Vivek Ramaswamy
    7. Chris Christie
    6. Mike Pence
    5. Glenn Youngkin (Virginia governor, undeclared candidate)
    4. Nikki Haley
    3. Tim Scott
    2. Ron DeSantis
    1. The Loser (as I call him)

    No odds are given, but this ranking might help those thinking a long shot might be good value.

    (For the record: I think five of those ten might make good presidents.)

    Cross posted at Political Betting.

    Jim Miller (c5e90f)

  55. It’s The Kraken! And The Red Tide. All talk, no walk. All hat, no cattle. Trump’s doxies faking orgasms.

    nk (fa989a)

  56. nk – Several years ago, I read that the NBA was giving a similar talk to rookies, although they were warning them about avoiding 18 or more years of child support, rather than an unhappy marriage.

    If I’m not mistaken, feminist groups went ape-you-know-what over that because they felt that young women were being stereotyped as gold diggers. But some years ago I was in the same Boston hotel as the Chicago Bulls (this was the period when Michael Jordan had retired the first time), and I saw for myself how many women of dubious virtue were slinking around clearly hoping to find a player.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  57. I may be an old guy shouting at clouds, but I do miss the days when policy rather than the President’s crackhead son were the focus of our politics. So I am going to feed in a quote that seems very appropriate to our time and place, yet somehow archaic. It’s from Michael Oakeshott, via William F. Buckley:

    To some people, government appears as a vast reservoir of power which inspires them to dream what use might be made of it. They have favorite projects, of various dimensions, which they seriously believe are for the benefit of mankind, and to capture this source of power, if necessary to increase it, and to use it for imposing their favorite projects upon their fellows is what they understand as the adventure of governing men. They are, thus, disposed to recognize government as an instrument of passion; the art of politics is to inflame and direct desire.

    Now, the disposition to be conservative in respect of politics reflects quite a different view of the act of governing. The man of this disposition understands it to be the business of government not to inflame passion and to give it new objects to feed upon; but to inject the into the activities of already too passionate men an ingredient of moderation; to restrain, to deflate, to pacify and to reconcile; not to stoke the fires of desire, but to damp them down. And all of this, not because passion is vice and moderation virtue, but because moderation is indispensable if passionate men are to escape being locked into an encounter of mutual frustration.

    The GOP long ago lost this disposition. And we seem deep into our encounter of mutual frustration. Anyone agree —disagree?

    Appalled (a8fe34)

  58. Jim Miller (c5e90f) — 7/29/2023 @ 8:24 am

    The problem for candidates #3-10 isn’t candidate #1, it’s #2.

    Blake’s rankings sure aren’t based on polls (basically it’s his feelings). There’s no way Scott and Haley are that highly regarded by Republican voters; and in some state polls Vivek Ramaswamy or Christie are a distant third.

    Scott (9%; 34 points behind Trump) and Haley (13%, -30) are mired back in the pack in their home state, never a good sign.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  59. Appalled – Absolutely agree. But I think there is hope yet in the Grand Old Party.

    Jim Miller (d2a9c8)

  60. @59, a similar discussion was going on at the Dispatch with a Jonah Goldberg piece.

    I think the New Right has given in to emotionalism, with the inevitable urge to treat every issue as requiring a club. Character-challenged leaders are now “necessary” because the other side doesn’t fight fair and there is no way to “defeat” them without adopting their questionable tactics. That’s why the great emoters Trump and DeSantis ride on top of the polls, and even a new comer like Ramaswamy overperforms.

    However, the American system, with all its checks and balances and super-majority requirements, is designed to shake out compromise. To inspire incremental partisan gains. The New Right has given up on persuasion. It has its mob and it wants to burn something…then blame the other side for making it do it.

    Most every piece of legislation requires 60 votes in the Senate to move forward. It’s not a constitutional requirement, but it’s a rule designed to cool the passions of the country…and make the Senate more deliberate. We may strongly disagree on means but we should not disagree on fundamental ends. We all one jobs, safe streets, some sort of safety nets, and the liberty to run our lives as we choose. We can’t treat the other side as enemies who want to destroy our nation or else the whole experiment collapses.

    The New Right refuses to acknowledge that its rage riot does not broaden the tent and its end isn’t a promised land. We should fight for incremental progress. We should recognize that different people have different concepts of liberty in a country 1000’s of miles end to end with 350 million people. The Old Right understood the solution was to push decision making to as local of a level as possible. The New Right wants more government to tell liberal enclaves to behave as the New Right chooses. It ain’t smart electorally and it ain’t smart from a conservative philosophical core.

    The GOP shouldn’t be focused on trying to make it 1950 again. Government isn’t good at that. Conservatives recognize the limitations of government and that things like lying, stealing, and cheating matter. We attract moderates and independents by being better than our rivals, not by aping corruption and bullying. The problem now is that we’re stuck talking about matters that have little impact on normal people’s lives. Hunter Biden is a loser issue that only plays to the choir. How about getting back to winning elections?

    AJ_Liberty (4d831e)

  61. Sometimes the masses need to be kept placid and content, and sometimes they need to be kept disorganized and distracted.

    Make America Gruntled Again?

    nk (fa989a)

  62. I’ll give Trump, personally. credit for taking his fight to the FBI and not to adolescent children.

    And for crying out loud, Ron, tell your wife that if she wore pantyhose she wouldn’t need to wear those long dresses.

    nk (fa989a)

  63. It really doesn’t matter-the State Senate is 38-12 Republican and the House is 83-35 (2 vacancies) Republican.

    It matters, because if they are NOT saying anything, there is the normal and expected reimbursement.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  64. latest ranking of the top ten Republican presidential candidates

    At least 5 of them should drop out now.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  65. Blake’s rankings sure aren’t based on polls (basically it’s his feelings).

    Good, because polls are for cattle.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  66. Gulliver and the Lilliputians in Iowa:

    DES MOINES, IOWA — It didn’t matter to the Republicans gathered in the convention center ballroom Friday that he’d hurled insults at their wildly popular governor, or that he is facing a cascade of federal charges.

    When Donald Trump strode on stage here for a major gathering of GOP presidential candidates in the first-in-the-nation caucus state, the entire room of party faithful rose to their feet and roared. In an apparently accidental twist, even the walkout music that played hinted at his situation — “One could end up going to prison; one just might be president,” went the Brooks & Dunn song, bits of which played for every candidate that spoke here.
    ………..
    ……….. Trump’s reception was a demonstration of the reality that continues to dog the rest of the Republican presidential field: seemingly no conventional rules of politics apply to him.
    ………….
    ………….(Trump’s) public polling average in the state remains more than 30 points ahead of his closest rival.
    …………
    But as he maintained his status Friday as the Republican Party’s most magnetic figure — and the frontrunner of the 2024 primary — another race was underfoot. It was a fight for the spotlight between DeSantis and Tim Scott.
    …………
    Whether DeSantis gets one of those tickets out and onto viability in New Hampshire and South Carolina appears now to be in question.
    …………
    Scott, the Senate’s sole Black Republican, held a single, filled-to-capacity town hall where he took a swipe at DeSantis afterward, declaring “there is no silver lining … in slavery,” and calling on DeSantis to clarify his comments.

    DeSantis fired back, insinuating that Scott is part of a D.C. establishment that “all too often accept false narratives — accept lies that are perpetrated by the left.”
    ………..
    ……….. (C)andidates with large national profiles, those like Nikki Haley and Mike Pence who, were it not for Trump, may have been frontrunners in the 2024 GOP primary, drew only polite applause.
    ………….
    “Donald Trump is not running for president to make America great again. Donald Trump is not running for president to represent the people that voted for him in 2016 and 2020,” (former Rep. Will) Hurd said to boos from a crowd that had otherwise been cordial to everyone. “Donald Trump is running to stay out of prison.”

    The jeering became deafening.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  67. Kevin M (2d6744) — 7/29/2023 @ 10:43 am

    I trust numbers(which will change) rather somebody’s “feelings.” As I said, there is no external evidence for Blake’s rankings.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  68. Trump Civil Litigation Watch:

    ……….
    U.S. District Judge Anuraag “Raag” Singhal ruled Friday that Trump’s 2022 defamation case against CNN couldn’t stand, and he granted the network’s motion to dismiss the case with prejudice. Singhal, who Trump appointed to the federal bench in 2019, said that the comments made on CNN didn’t meet the legal standard for defamation.

    …………. According to Trump, the comments were defamatory because they “create a false and incendiary association between [Trump] and [Adolf] Hitler,” leading viewers and readers to understand “that [Trump] would be Hitler-like in any future political role.”
    ………….
    “Acknowledging that CNN acted with political enmity does not save this case; the Complaint alleges no false statements of fact,” the ruling says. “Trump complains that CNN described his election challenges as ‘the Big Lie.’ Trump argues that ‘the Big Lie’ is a phrase attributed to Joseph Goebbels and that CNN’s use of the phrase wrongly links Trump with the Hitler regime in the public eye. This is a stacking of inferences that cannot support a finding of falsehood.”
    ………….
    “Like Trump and CNN personalities Ashleigh Banfield and Paul Steinhauser, the Court finds Nazi references in the political discourse (made by whichever ‘side’) to be odious and repugnant,” Singhal wrote. “But bad rhetoric is not defamation when it does not include false statements of fact. CNN’s use of the phrase ‘the Big Lie’ in connection with Trump’s election challenges does not give rise to a plausible inference that Trump advocates the persecution and genocide of Jews or any other group of people. No reasonable viewer could (or should) plausibly make that reference.”

    “Being ‘Hitler-like’ is not a verifiable statement of fact that would support a defamation claim,” the judge also wrote.
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  69. Rip Murdock (7d1622) — 7/29/2023 @ 10:48 am

    As I’ve said, I support Christie, but am realistic about his chances of winning-which is to say not at all. If Christie is not the nominee, I won’t be voting for President in the general election.

    It wouldn’t make any difference anyway, because whoever the Democrat nominee is will have a mortal lock on California’s electoral votes.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  70. @ Jim Miller,

    But I think there is hope yet in the Grand Old Party.

    What specifically do you see happening in today’s GOP that gives you hope that it will return to its roots or become an even stronger and viable political party? I fear that 7 or 8 years into MAGA with very little pushback by prominent Congressional members, that it will be a very long time before an actual cleansing (for lack of a better term) occurs.

    Dana (78a296)

  71. @Kevin@47- Hmmm. Interesting. I may add it to my list to test drive at some point then. Thanks for answering!

    @nk@64 Pantyhose are terrible and even worse in heat and humidity.

    Nic (896fdf)

  72. @72, “What specifically do you see happening in today’s GOP that gives you hope that it will return to its roots”

    I agree. Right now, all I see from another Trump loss would be the base doubling down on someone like Don Jr or Tucker Carlson. DeSantis can’t seem to make much of a dent into MAGA despite being smarter, younger, and arguably more effective than Trump (oh and not being under multiple indictments too).

    The base doesn’t want a leader. They want an entertainer….a carnival act that tells them who to blame for all their woes. Most of the politicians fear stepping out of line because it’s not where the majority of the GOP is currently. We have a Soylent Orange problem….it’s the people stupid.

    AJ_Liberty (4d831e)

  73. A DeSantis come-from-behind win is looking vanishingly unlikely
    ………….
    Historically, there have been a few times when presidential hopefuls come out of nowhere and snatch their party’s nomination. This happened with Jimmy Carter in 1976. Bill Clinton managed to pull off a similar feat in 1992, when the then-Arkansas governor used a second-place finish in New Hampshire to turn the page after allegations that he’d had an affair with a former local TV reporter and brand himself “The Comeback Kid.”

    Lately, though, voters have been sticking with the frontrunners.
    That’s bad news for DeSantis and the other Republicans seeking to dethrone Donald Trump.

    Only once has the Republican polling leader in midsummer of the year before the election gone on to lose the party’s nomination: Rudy Giuliani in 2008, when John McCain surged to capture the GOP nod.

    ……….. Even in the early days of the primary system, when things were far more volatile, no candidate has ever blown a national polling lead even a third as large as Trump’s is today: 37 percentage points, according to FiveThirtyEight’s latest average.

    A Trump collapse would be unprecedented. So, too, would a DeSantis turnaround.

    So what can past primary comebacks dating back to the 1970s tell us about the prospect of a shakeup today? Here’s a ride back in history, looking at the Democrats and one single Republican who managed to reverse the tide in the year before the primaries:
    …………
    According to FiveThirtyEight’s polling average, DeSantis’ net favorability — that is, the difference between his average favorable and unfavorable ratings — has dropped from +1 at the start of this year to -9.8 points today.

    Over that time, DeSantis’ average favorable rating slid slightly, from 37 percent to 35.6 percent. But his average unfavorable rating has risen significantly: from 36 percent on the first of the year to 45.5 percent now.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  74. https://www.foxnews.com/category/great-outdoors/hunting

    The Biden administration is blocking key federal funding earmarked under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) of 1965 for schools with hunting and archery programs.

    According to federal guidance circulated among hunting education groups and shared with Fox News Digital, the Department of Education determined that, under the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (BSCA) passed last year, school hunting and archery classes are precluded from receiving federal funding. The interpretation could impact millions of American children enrolled in such programs.

    “It’s a negative for children. As a former educator of 30-plus years, I was always trying to find a way to engage students,” Tommy Floyd, the president of the National Archery in the Schools Program, told Fox News Digital in an interview. “In many communities, it’s a shooting sport, and the skills from shooting sports, that help young people grow to be responsible adults. They also benefit from relationships with role models.”

    Looking forward to those pretzel explanatioons as to how this is a good thing and not a radical leftist broadside to the 2nd Amendment.

    NJRob (6abc7c)

  75. Shouldn’t parents teach their children how to hunt and not leave it to government-run schools? Why are schools involved at all?

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  76. I could be wrong, but I don’t think there is a historical tradition of the federal government providing funding to schools to teach children about hunting, which is the test under New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen for laws regulating rights under the Second Amendment.

    It would be an interesting court challenge, though.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  77. @NJRob@78 and @Rip@79 There is no funding in the ESEA act that is earmarked for Hunting and Archery programs. Last summer congress passed a law that included an addition to the ESEA clarifying basically that ESEA funds couldn’t be used for buying dangerous weapons for anyone or for teaching the use of dangerous weapons to anyone. It was passed with large margins in both houses.

    Each class a school offers is designated at being paid for out of a specific pot of funding (yes money is fungible, but that’s the way the bureaucracy works.) Basically for my district’s purposes it would mean that we couldn’t use those specific funds to pay for a hands-on gun-safety class as part of our Law Enforcement CTE pathway at our High Schools. If we wanted to do that we would have to pull the money from a different funding pot. (we don’t want to do that, NO GUNS ON CAMPUS EXCEPT THE SCHOOL SAFETY OFFICER!!) also it would be an insurance nightmare. We can barely fund Shop due to insurance issues and nobody’s been allowed to do trampoline in PE for at least 30 years for the same reason.

    The section of the ESEA that they are discussing, amendment from the ESSA of 2022 will be in itallics:

    SEC. 8526. [20 U.S.C. 7906] PROHIBITED USES OF FUNDS [ 16 ]

    No funds under this Act may be used—

    1. for construction, renovation, or repair of any school facility, except as authorized under this Act;

    2. for transportation unless otherwise authorized under this Act;

    3. to develop or distribute materials, or operate programs or courses of instruction directed at youth, that are designed to promote or encourage sexual activity, whether homosexual or heterosexual;

    4. to distribute or to aid in the distribution by any organization of legally obscene materials to minors on school grounds;

    5. to provide sex education or HIV-prevention education in schools unless that instruction is age appropriate and includes the health benefits of abstinence; or

    6. to operate a program of contraceptive distribution in schools or for the provision to any person of a dangerous weapon, as defined in section 930(g)(2) of title 18, United States Code, or training in the use of a dangerous weapon.’

    The federal definition of “dangerous weapon” that they used is: “The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2½ inches in length.”

    Nic (896fdf)

  78. Here’s my mini Ukraine round-up that I stuck in the wrong thread.
    Also, another bridge accessing the Crimean peninsula has been struck and damaged. If you look at the base of the peninsula on Google Maps, there’s a lot of water separating mainland from peninsula, with only two highways connecting. Chonhar is the eastern bridge.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  79. #72 Dana – Fair question, but not one I can answer briefly.

    But here are some thoughts: Beginning with this very general principle: Both markets and elections give us ways to recognize mistakes, and correct them. A company that loses market share will adapt or vanish. A political party that continues to lose elections will change leaders and platforms, or vanish.

    Americans have shown great ability to make corrections in both markets and elections. (There is some truth to Churchill’s famous quip that we always do the right thing — after having tried all the other alternatives.)

    Whenever I call him the Loser, I am trying to remind Republicans that, however entertaining he may be, he is still a loser, with 6 bankruptcies, two failed marriages, losses in many civil actions, the loss of control of the Senate, twice, and the loss of the popular vote for president to two weak candidates, twice.

    The small softening of support for him in polls we have seen in recent weeks suggests to me that Republican voters are beginning to recognize that he is a loser, despite all his lies about the last election.

    Second, in emergencies in the US, leaders often come back into the public arena. The greatest example is Abraham Lincoln. He had mostly dropped out of politics, and was becoming a wealthy lawyer. But then the fight over slavery intensified, and he came back into politics. There are many, many other examples, then, and at other crises in our history.

    I think we will see many of the talented Republican leaders who have left politics do the same thing, because they love this flawed, but wonderful, nation.

    Third, given his obesity, his poor diet and lack of exercise, and the stress he is under, it is possible that the Loser may be unable to campaign effectively, soon. (Consult an actuary if you want numbers.)

    Fourth, the legal problems of so many of his important supporters will make it harder for the Loser to have talented people supporting him.

    Fifth, and somewhat to my surprise, the economy is, for now, doing better than almost anyone expected. I think, more and more, voters will recongnize that. (A surprising number of voters think we are still in a recession.)

    Jim Miller (ea859e)

  80. @me@81 I would say that it also prohibits schools from buying tigers for their animal science curriculums, since the definition of dangerous weapons includes an animate material that is readily capable of causing death of serious bodily injury.

    HOW DARE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PROHIBIT US FROM BUYING TIGERS WITH THEIR MONEY!!!!

    On a more serious note, archery is more often offered as a club and can still be offered as a club, they just can’t use ESEA funds to buy the materials or pay an outside instructor to mentor the club (which I suspect is where the NASP spokesperson takes issue), they would have to use other funds.

    Nic (896fdf)

  81. Although I find polls interesting, this early in the campaign betting markets are known to be better predictors. (Assuming, of course, that there are many independent bettors.)

    Here’s a site that calculates odds. As I write, the Loser has a 28.6% chance of winning the presidency in 2024.

    Jim Miller (ea859e)

  82. Reading the notes and discussion of the law would be useful, but it’s not conducive to defending Biden.

    Carry on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  83. Nic (896fdf) — 7/29/2023 @ 2:51 pm

    I knew I shouldn’t have depended on an accurate rendition of facts from NJRob.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  84. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-biden-administrations-assault-on-free-speech-first-amendment-soical-media-platform-meta-facebook-twitter-files-99101669

    [T]he nation needs to come to terms with the reality and scale of the assault on free speech. Our government has established a vast system of censorship. By keeping it largely secret, it has been able to exert unconstitutional control over medical, scientific and political speech, suppressing debate over questions of great public importance. This is a shocking constitutional violation. All of us, not only the courts, need to recognize what is at stake.

    And here’s Biden destroying the 1st Amendment as well.

    So moderate and reasonable. Clearly a better choice for all.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  85. “We were alarmed to learn recently that the Department of Education has misinterpreted the BCSA to require the defending of certain longstanding educational and enrichment programs — specifically, archery and hunter education classes — for thousands of children, who rely on these programs to develop life skills, learn firearm safety and build self-esteem,” Cornyn and Tillis wrote to Cardona.

    “The Department mistakenly believes that the BSCA precludes funding these enrichment programs,” they continued. “Such an interpretation contradicts congressional intent and the text of the BSCA.”

    That radical arch conservative Sen Cornyn.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  86. https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2023/07/29/why-is-biden-withholding-funding-for-schools-with-archery-and-hunting-programs-n567864

    As noted above, the BSCA was promoted as a way to make public facilities, including schools, safer and to reduce violence. Nothing about archery or hunting was mentioned anywhere in the legislation. The portion being cited by the White House as justification for withholding the funding wasn’t even included in the original bill. An amendment tacked on at the end included an exception that would withhold funding to schools that “provide any person with a dangerous weapon or provide training in the use of a dangerous weapon.”

    Some GOP Senators immediately objected, pointing out that the intent of the amendment was to “withhold education funds for programs training school resource officers.” That would be bad enough by itself since we clearly need more resource officers in our schools. But hunting and archery classes weren’t even mentioned in the bill’s language. This is just another case of the Biden administration making things up as they go along.

    But why? What is this administration suddenly finding so objectionable about hunting or archery? And why wouldn’t you want students who are interested to be trained in both safety and environmental conservation? The answer should be fairly obvious. Both archery and hunting, whether it’s bow hunting or hunting with a firearm, involve “weapons.” And weapons are bad. And since they can’t flatly ban these traditional common practices, they are falling back on the next tool in their kit. They will deny federal funding until the schools fall into compliance.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  87. Although I find polls interesting, this early in the campaign betting markets are known to be better predictors. (Assuming, of course, that there are many independent bettors.)

    Here’s a site that calculates odds. As I write, the Loser has a 28.6% chance of winning the presidency in 2024.

    Jim Miller (ea859e) — 7/29/2023 @ 3:17 pm

    Not sure what your point is, Trump still needs to win the nomination, and he’s crushing it. From your link:

    Odds of winning the Republican nomination:

    Trump 67.4%

    DeSantis 10.4

    Ramaswamy 8.0

    Scott 3.5

    Haley 1.9 (LOL!)

    Christie 1.6

    Pence .5

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  88. On the bright side, since we have people twisting into pretzels to withhold funding from schools, it’ll be easy for conservatives to do the same to the leftist centers of indoctrination when they regain power.

    Thanks for that.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  89. Make America 70,000 BC Again!

    Good grief, Mr. Cornyn! Don’t ever let them give you an enema. Your wife would have to carry you around in her purse.

    nk (ba9a12)

  90. That’s the kind of sh!t that gets them elected in Texas?

    nk (ba9a12)

  91. Fire is even more important than archery. Is there federal funding for teaching kids how to make fire by rubbing sticks together?

    nk (ba9a12)

  92. Posters here ask me. AOC said she endorses Biden over RFK and mariane williamson leaving it open if somebody else gets in race. AOC is not perfect (who is?) ;but she is good enough for me. I will not vote for biden regardless even it means trump wins which would be better for both the left, AOC and me as the 2016 election of trump showed as a discredited establishment in 2020 was more attentive to left base. It might biden only won my state by 10,000+ votes and with the democrat party kicking green party off ballot here. The biden/clinton wing of the party knows the left base loathes them and to prevent a left primary of biden in 2024 when the left says jump they ask how high? The left wing of the party is not the majority ;but with enough disgruntled minorities joining us we can impose are will on the democrat party.

    asset (73adc5)

  93. @NJRob@90 Your new link is just a rehash of mostly quoting the old link. The entire premise is false from the get go. I will elucidate, line by line

    “The Biden administration” The law as passed by both houses of Congress. By a good margin.

    is blocking key federal funding” It isn’t. Schools will still qualify for the same amount of money that they otherwise qualify for.

    earmarked under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) of 1965 for schools with hunting and archery programs. This doesn’t exist. There is no money earmarked or delineated under ESEA specifically for schools with hunting and archery programs. It is an untruth, a lie.

    According to federal guidance circulated among hunting education groups and shared with Fox News Digital, the Department of Education determined that, under the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (BSCA) passed last year, school hunting and archery classes are precluded from receiving federal funding. Congress specifically designated the legal definition of dangerous weapon that they were using. Can you, by any reading of the legal definition they used, exclude bow and arrows?

    “The interpretation could impact millions of American children enrolled in such programs.” Schools who want to continue the programs can, they just have to pay for it out of another funding pot. As I have said a number of times in the past, federal funding is not a large part of a school district’s money.

    “It’s a negative for children. As a former educator of 30-plus years, I was always trying to find a way to engage students,” Tommy Floyd, the president of the National Archery in the Schools Program, told Fox News Digital in an interview. “In many communities, it’s a shooting sport, and the skills from shooting sports, that help young people grow to be responsible adults. They also benefit from relationships with role models.”</em? You'll notice he never said that HE had taught archery (he was a biology teacher for what looks like not very long. It looks like he was a pretty good Superintendent, but he did implement an SEL discipline program, so some would not be super happy about it). He doesn't appear to have any direct experience with any kind of shooting sports in schools. I don't disagree with his observation that teachers should engage children or that they benefit from relationship with role models, but archery is only one of many ways to provide that. Obviously he needs to support and advocate for the business that employs him, but like I said, schools can still teach archery, they will just have to fund it out of the general fund.

    Nic (896fdf)

  94. Oops, missed an end italics mark. That last paragraph should be:

    “It’s a negative for children. As a former educator of 30-plus years, I was always trying to find a way to engage students,” Tommy Floyd, the president of the National Archery in the Schools Program, told Fox News Digital in an interview. “In many communities, it’s a shooting sport, and the skills from shooting sports, that help young people grow to be responsible adults. They also benefit from relationships with role models.” You’ll notice he never said that HE had taught archery (he was a biology teacher for what looks like not very long. It looks like he was a pretty good Superintendent, but he did implement an SEL discipline program, so some would not be super happy about it). He doesn’t appear to have any direct experience with any kind of shooting sports in schools. I don’t disagree with his observation that teachers should engage children or that they benefit from relationship with role models, but archery is only one of many ways to provide that. Obviously he needs to support and advocate for the business that employs him, but like I said, schools can still teach archery, they will just have to fund it out of the general fund.

    Nic (896fdf)

  95. @ norcal,

    I agree with Bill Wyman that Mick is the best front man in rock history.

    I totally agree with this. I’ve seen the Stones a few times, and Mick is an engaging livewire who keeps his audience on their feet while he burns a staggering number of calories from dancing non-stop. He is charming, sly, and wholly entertaining. I can’t think of any other front man who has captivated audiences for as long as he has

    The best documentary about The Rolling Stones is Scorcese’s “Shine a Light,” filmed at the Beacon Theater. Just terrific.

    To this day, Gimme Shelter remains my all-time favorite Stones song.

    Dana (1d4800)

  96. Jim @ 83,

    Thanks for your thoughtful observations. While I believe that the political pendulum is always in motion, it seems that the Republicans have lost sight of what they once claimed as their guiding principles. Things like the Constitution and Rule of Law used to mean something to the vast majority of the GOP. However, given Trump’s lack of respect for the first and abuse of the second, he still leads in the polls. I am not optimistic. I think the soul of the GOP has become unknowable as the MAGA crew and squishes more worried about their own re-elections and not pushing back against what they know is wrong tells me that this isn’t the time that sanity will return to the Party.

    Dana (1d4800)

  97. Nic (896fdf) — 7/29/2023 @ 2:51 pm

    Well, they ignore most of that already

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  98. Dana, I would say Steven Tyler is a close competitor to Mick. Maybe weirder but Aerosmith has a lot of great songs. I agree with you that Gimme Shelter is their best song, especially with the incomparable Lisa Fischer…what a voice

    AJ_Liberty (5c0a20)

  99. To this day, Gimme Shelter remains my all-time favorite Stones song.

    I’ve always loved when they have delved into erstaz country and western music, like Paul Montagu made reference to early in the comments section. He mentions “Far Away Eyes,” a song I have always liked, as well as “Wild Horses” which is one of my favorites too, but the song of the Stones that gets me every time is “Memory Motel,” which I think is about as beautiful and elegiac as any song anyone else has come up with. The studio version is the best (that’s what I linked to) because he recording is so pristine, but I won’t hold it against anybody if they have a favorite live version (but please, not the version where Dave Matthews joins them).

    You’re just a memory
    Of a love, that used to be
    You’re just a memory
    Of a love that use to mean so much to me.

    She’s got a mind of her own,
    She’s one of a kind,
    And she uses it well.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  100. Posters here ask me. AOC said she endorses Biden over RFK and mariane williamson leaving it open if somebody else gets in race. AOC is not perfect (who is?) ;but she is good enough for me.

    She’s an establishment sellout. Sorry asset, I know you wanted her to be better. Say what you will about the Lauren Bobberts and the Matt Gaetzes of the GOP, but at the end of the day they cause serious angina to party leadership and usually wring major concessions from them. Our Adorably Ornery Clueless niece makes a lot of noise but always meekly bows to party leadership in the end with nothing to show for it. It’s not just in her supporting Slow Joe; look at how she fell in line to endorse Fancy Aunt Nancy’s final bid for speakership without getting any kind of prize in return. She plays the left-wing heroine for the camera, and hopelessly romantic leftists fall for that pablum because they desperately want to believe it, but she’s establishment to her core.

    JVW (1ad43e)

  101. The best documentary about The Rolling Stones is Scorcese’s “Shine a Light,” filmed at the Beacon Theater. Just terrific.

    Nothing was scarier than seeing a closeup of Keith Richards face in IMAX in that movie.

    BTW, Keith will be 80 in December.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  102. I hope Keith donates his body to science because that is some kick-ass DNA.

    norcal (96ada1)

  103. To this day, Gimme Shelter remains my all-time favorite Stones song.

    Dana (1d4800) — 7/29/2023 @ 7:55 pm

    Musically, that is the best song. Lyrically, my favorite is Sympathy for the Devil.

    A few years ago, I read the book The Master and Margarita, by Mikhail Bulgakov, after a Russian friend recommended and loaned it to me. The book was written in the Soviet Union between 1928 and 1940, but wasn’t published (probably due to fear of the Soviet regime) until 1966, and even then it was his widow who published it. Many critics consider it one of the best novels of the 20th century.

    The book concerns a visit to Moscow by the devil and his entourage. It is enthralling.

    After I read the book, I learned that it was the inspiration for Mick Jagger in writing the lyrics to Sympathy for the Devil, which was the first song on 1968’s Beggars Banquet album. My mind was blown that, so soon after the book was published, Jagger used it to create such a magnificent song. Mick was only 25 at the time. I thought he’d be too busy chasing tail and getting high to pay attention to literature.

    I just have a ton of respect for the guy. So smart, educated, and driven.

    norcal (96ada1)

  104. Incidentally, that encounter between a higher-up in the Mormon church and Mick Jagger, referenced at #25, is laughable. I think it is BS, and so do many Mormons.

    Either the leader was fooled by somebody pretending to be Jagger, or the story was made up. It wouldn’t be the first time a leader of the church was caught making up stories.

    https://www.deseret.com/1991/2/16/18906053/arizona-paper-alleges-many-stories-were-exaggerated

    norcal (96ada1)

  105. @100 Nixon and reagan knew the republican conservative base of the wealthy the professional class and business owners led by an economic libertarian free trade ideology was too small a party to win consistently hence nixon/reagan southern populist strategy of bringing ignorant southern white trash democrats into the republican party. 2016 16 constitutionalist economic libertarian free traders were told by the now populist base want to cut are social security and medicare NO! trump is their leader not milton friedman. Get out and join the libertarian party if you want send our jobs out of the country.

    asset (76ab6c)

  106. @104 AOC and the squad have forced the democrat party to the left. MTG/bobert/gaetz only power is that mccarthy will do anything to stay speaker if republican party tells mccarthy its over then it is also over for the three stooges. AOC and the left are slowly taking over the democrat party. The establishment saw what happened when the clinton wing of the democrat party told the left to take a hike we are in control of the party ;but don’t you dare stay away on election day. Vote for hillary or else! Left or else what? So far the left is not primarying biden. Purists ( I am usually one of them ) will say AOC has gone to far toward the center ;how ever the few purists she loses on the far left are overwhelmed by young latinx who’s role model she is. AOC and latinx are the democratic partys future for 2028/2032 when she runs for president. Watch 2016 media election night coverage when the clintonistas in the media like rachel maddow get crazy when they realize bernie supporters are voting for green party’s jill stein throwing the election to trump as she calls third party voters every name she can that is allowed on the air. Joy reid pbs and cbs are fun to watch too! 2020 democrats knew crossing the left would cost them the election.

    asset (76ab6c)

  107. Nic, your comments on the school funding issue have been detailed, educational and persuasive. Thank you for them. That said, I think Archery and Hunter safety are good things to teach kids, but I don’t think the federal government should pay for it as schools should be a local issue.

    Time123 (194e92)

  108. The Master and Margarita is indeed a hoot. I have read it in a couple of translations.

    Although lending it to a minor in Arkansas could net a librarian six years in prison. Or in Sarah Huckabee Sanders’ lingerie closet if there are aggravating circumstances.

    But like many things Russian, most things Soviet, and all things “rock group publicist”, a lot of legends have grown around it and its author.

    nk (1ed62d)

  109. That said, I think Archery and Hunter safety are good things to teach kids, but I don’t think the federal government should pay for it as schools should be a local issue.

    I think wingnuts should leave those kids alone (that’s Pink Floyd), and not use them as cannon fodder in the culture wars.

    nk (1ed62d)

  110. norcal (96ada1) — 7/29/2023 @ 10:12 pm

    The Glimmer Twins are proof modern medicine works.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  111. Nic #97

    Thank you for that review of NJRob’s link. There is a world of difference between your school losing all federal funding for having an archery program, and not being able to use the funds for the archery program. One approach is social engineering which the feds shouldn’t be doing. The other is minor league stuff.

    Appalled (8a8ef5)

  112. norcal (96ada1) — 7/29/2023 @ 10:34 pm

    Jean-Luc Godard in 1968 filmed the Rolling Stones creating and recording Sympathy for the Devil, along with fictional scenes involving the Black Panthers and political readings.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  113. Trumpifornia:

    In a move backed by former President Trump’s campaign, the California Republican Party on Saturday changed its rules for allocating delegates in the state’s presidential primary — a shake-up that could discourage other GOP candidates from campaigning here and make the state less competitive in next year’s nominating contest.
    …………..
    The new rule in California means a Republican presidential candidate who receives more than 50% of the vote in the March 5 primary will win all 169 delegates from California, which has more than any state in the nation. If no one reaches this benchmark, delegates will be awarded proportionally based on the statewide vote.

    State party leaders argued that the new plan would draw candidates to compete in California.
    …………..
    But other Republicans say the plan will instead make California less competitive than if the party had stuck with some version of the system it has used for much of the last two decades, in which three delegates were awarded for each congressional district won, said Jon Fleischman, who was executive director of the state GOP in 2000, when it adopted this plan (though it didn’t go into effect until after the 2004 election).

    Such a system allows a candidate to strategically target a handful of areas instead of trying to campaign and advertise in an enormous state with some of the most expensive media markets in the nation.
    …………….
    Trump’s campaign supported the plan because polling shows he can win more than half the votes in California’s GOP primary, allowing him to sweep up the state’s huge haul of delegates, according to an executive committee member who had spoken with a campaign official.

    Trump strategists also believe a previous proposal — that the California GOP scrapped — could have helped Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, said the executive committee member, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk candidly about the insider conversation.

    Under that system, delegates would have been awarded by congressional district, with two going to the winner in each district and one delegate going to the second-place finisher. ………
    California’s 2024 primary is scheduled for Super Tuesday on March 5, along with contests in more than a dozen other states. ……………
    ……………

    Polling for California Republican primary is pretty old, with the last poll released in June; I’m sure there will be more available in the fall. The RCP average has Trump at 49%, with DeSantis at 23%. Everyone else are in single digits.

    Rip Murdock (7d1622)

  114. Gimme Shelter is also my favorite Stones tune. The song flat-out rocks, and the lyrics are poetic and had some content.

    Musically, I like Brown Sugar just as much, but I wouldn’t sing “here he whipped the women just around midnight” at my friend’s karaoke party.

    I went to a Stones concert at the now-demolished-and-replaced Kingdome right after Tattoo You came out, standing close enough to see beads of sweat. Great and memorable performance. The warm-up acts (Greg Kihn and J. Geils) were first-rate.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  115. Appalled,

    according to Fox it’s all funding for the schools that have those programs. If Nic has information to the contrary, I’d love to see it.

    The Biden administration is blocking key federal funding earmarked under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) of 1965 for schools with hunting and archery programs.

    According to federal guidance circulated among hunting education groups and shared with Fox News Digital, the Department of Education determined that, under the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (BSCA) passed last year, school hunting and archery classes are precluded from receiving federal funding. The interpretation could impact millions of American children enrolled in such programs.

    NJRob (9cd0bf)

  116. I have two concerns with the archery/gun safety issue.

    First, I can’t tell if all funding is being withheld or if only funding for gun safety and archery classes. But Senators Cornyn and Tillis claim the intent of the provision the Education Department is relying on is to withhold education funds for programs training school resource officers, not for hunting and archery classes. (Shool resource officer training was funded under a separate provision.) If that is correct then it doesn’t matter how this is being done, it is not legally authorized.

    Second, reports say that the federal funding under this provision is the largest source of federal education funding, apparently a billion dollars. Most schools rely on local funding for buildings, personnel, and basic services. There isnt much left over. I suspect whatever federal funds schools get are funneled to shortfalls or extracurricular programs like this. So this will likely kill archery and gun safety in most schools.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  117. It’s not really a reading comprehension problem. It’s the inflammatory, dishonest, double-talk that has made Faux News famous. They start with

    The Biden administration is blocking key federal funding earmarked under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) of 1965 for schools with hunting and archery programs.

    to get people who are inclined to believe that all hot and lathered. Then they tell the truth, kind of:

    According to federal guidance circulated among hunting education groups and shared with Fox News Digital, the Department of Education determined that, under the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (BSCA) passed last year, school hunting and archery classes are precluded from receiving federal funding.

    Then they go all “Ooh, scary!” again:

    The interpretation could impact millions of American children enrolled in such programs.

    nk (1ed62d)

  118. I doubt federal grant funding is earmarked for specific programs at specific schools. If it is not, then the only way to stop federal funding of tarchrry and gun safety is to stop all funding to any school that offers archery or gun safety programs.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  119. Or they can audit schools to make sure they don’t spend any money on those programs.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  120. More federal control of local schools. Schools would be crazy to keep those programs.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  121. Where the federal government spends and doesn’t spend our money matters to me, nk.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  122. We have had similar discussions about Planned Parenthood and the Hyde Amendment.

    nk (1ed62d)

  123. Yes, the first thing I thought was this is how the right chipped away at birth control, abortion, etc., in the schools. But I didn’t want to go there.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  124. I would rather have local control and let other departments fund things — like let the agriculture department make grants for meal programs; Interior make grants for archery and gun safety programs, etc. It doesn’t even have to go to schools unless schools are the best places to implement them.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  125. This is all fallout from integration. That put the federal government in local schools. It was needed then but is it really needed now?

    DRJ (ba8685)

  126. Musically, I like Brown Sugar just as much, but I wouldn’t sing “here he whipped the women just around midnight” at my friend’s karaoke party.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 7/30/2023 @ 9:06 am

    Apparently the Stones haven’t played Brown Sugar since 2019, though Mick and Keith differ on reasons.

    Five controversial songs by The Rolling Stones that need to be forgotten

    Rip Murdock (c9479a)

  127. I don’t know, when so many schools are struggling to get their kids to read and do math at grade level (Hello Baltimore!), I’m not sure how much time is warranted to bemoan archery and gun safety funding. These are nice extra-curricular activities. My school didn’t have anything like this, but if I recall it may not have had shop class either.

    Personally something like archery could be picked up by cub and boy scouts. If it’s that integral to the student’s development, then parents can chip in for the cost of equipment, including targets. Have a bake sale; do a paper drive (are they still a thing?); wash cars.

    Conservatives used to want to get rid of the Dept of Education or at least minimize its influence at the local level. Now archery is a national matter because, I guess, archery is “conservative”. Go figure. Fox did enough to start a fire. Smart people here can’t figure out exactly what’s going on. Mission accomplished.

    AJ_Liberty (5c0a20)

  128. But the money is still going to the schools. What do you imagine they will spend it on?

    DRJ (c32364)

  129. The right plays games. The left plays games. They need to stop, especially with our schools.

    I am beyond wanting government out of public schools. I want vouchers. Put the power back in parrnts’ hands.

    DRJ (c32364)

  130. I think conservatives have a libertarian streak that makes us prone to a “live and let live” approach. Politicians from both parties take advantage of that. They see us as suckers.

    DRJ (c32364)

  131. Federal judge temporarily blocks parts of Arkansas’ new library law

    In his order granting the plaintiffs’ request for a preliminary injunction on Act 372, U.S. District Judge Timothy L. Brooks of the Western District of Arkansas wrote that because the two sections of the law “are likely to result in the abridgment of Plaintiffs’ First Amendment rights, Plaintiffs will suffer irreparable harm if a preliminary injunction is not granted.”
    ………..
    One contested section of the legislation establishes a new Class A misdemeanor offense of furnishing a harmful item to a minor. Individuals who knowingly provide a minor with a harmful item, or who knowingly make a harmful item available to a minor, could be imprisoned for up to a year if convicted.

    In a brief filed June 22, attorneys for the plaintiffs wrote that the so-called availability provision “threatens librarians and booksellers with criminal prosecution for providing protected expression to people with a constitutional right to receive it. Under the statute, librarians and booksellers could face criminal liability for providing a 17-year-old with a book that was only potentially ‘harmful’ to a 5- or 6-year-old.”

    The brief argues that library and bookstore personnel might respond to the provision by banning patrons under 18 or removing from their shelves books that the law could consider to be “harmful,” regardless of their scientific or literary value, the brief said. That action would depend on libraries’ “respective budgets and tolerance for criminal legal risk,” the brief adds.
    ……….
    “……….(T)he Challenge Procedure forces the same set of choices upon Arkansas libraries to come into compliance: banning minors from libraries, undertaking prohibitive physical restructuring of their libraries to ensure that ‘inappropriate’ books are not ‘accessible’ to minors, or altogether removing ‘inappropriate’ books from their collections,” the June 22 brief said.
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (c9479a)

  132. One last comment from me.

    A superficial reading of the provision sounds like the Biden Education Department can do this. If so, and if Cornyn and the Republicans did not intend that result, they did a poor job drafting and reading.

    But those are the breaks in politics, and this isn’t that big a deal overall. It’s the incremental damage from things like this that I dislike.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  133. Once again,

    show me they are only limiting funding to these programs and not the schools in their entirety as a way to socially engineer more leftiat policies.

    NJRob (c318cf)

  134. Suckers!

    Former president Donald Trump’s political group spent more than $40 million on legal costs in the first half of 2023 to defend Trump, his advisers and others, according to people familiar with the matter, financing legal work that has drawn scrutiny from prosecutors about potential conflicts of interest between Trump and witnesses.

    Save America, the former president’s PAC, is expected to disclose about $40.2 million in legal spending in a filing expected Monday, said the people familiar with the filing, who like others interviewed spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss information that has not been made public.

    That total is more than any other expense the PAC has incurred during Trump’s 2024 presidential campaign and, according to federal filings from earlier this month………..
    …………
    ………… Trump advisers told The Washington Post that the PAC, which raises most of its money from small-dollar contributions by Trump supporters across the country, is footing the legal bills for almost anyone drawn into the investigations who requests help from the former president and his advisers.
    …………
    “It’s an extraordinary sum of money,” (Paul Seamus Ryan, a campaign finance expert) said. “At the end of the day it’s up to the donors to decide if that’s the way they want their money spent. My sense is if you’re giving money to Trump in 2023, you’re fine with it.”
    ##########

    Related

    The political action committee that former President Donald J. Trump is using to pay his legal bills faced such staggering costs this year that it requested a refund on a $60 million contribution it made to another group supporting the Republican front-runner, according to two people familiar with the matter.
    …………..
    It is unclear how much money was refunded.
    …………..
    That $40 million was in addition to $16 million that Save America spent in the previous two years on legal fees. ……….
    …………
    The (Save America) PAC was the entity in which Mr. Trump had parked the more than $100 million raised when he sought small-dollar donations after losing the 2020 election. Mr. Trump claimed he needed the support to fight widespread fraud in the race. ……..
    …………
    Earlier this year, Mr. Trump began diverting a larger percentage of every dollar he raised online away from his campaign and into his PAC, which he has used to pay for his lawyers. At the start of the 2024 campaign, Mr. Trump had devoted 99 cents of every dollar raised online to his campaign. But he shifted that formula to now give only 90 cents to the campaign and 10 cents to the PAC, which has served as a sort of de facto legal fund.
    ………….
    “He’s going to middle class men and women in this country and they’re donating $15, $25, $50, $100 because they believe in Donald Trump and they want him to be president again,” (Chris Christie said on CNN in June) “They’re not giving that money so he can pay his personal legal fees.”
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (06e304)

  135. Worth buying: This long editorial, “How Russia turned America’s helping hand to Ukraine into a vast lie”.

    Russia had help from a few Americans, for example:

    On March 9 [2022], Fox News host Tucker Carlson picked it up, too. Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland had told a Senate hearing that it was important the invading Russian troops not take over the Ukraine research facilities. A Russian spokeswoman said Ms. Nuland’s comment confirmed the United States’ “illegal and criminal activity on Ukrainian soil.” Mr. Carlson then pounced, saying the Russian account of the biological weapons laboratories “is, in fact, totally and completely true. Whoa.” He also said, “We would assume … they were working on bioweapons.”

    Others were pulled in to helping Russia in its disinformation campaigns by our increasingly tribal politics.

    Jim Miller (19069b)

  136. Don’t look at me; I think that any government control or operation of schools is likely to result in indoctrination of one sort or another.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  137. “They’re not giving that money so he can pay his personal legal fees.”

    Anything the Leader needs if for is fine with them.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  138. @Kevin@101 😛

    @Time@111 Thank you! I also don’t think archery or hunting are a bad thing, but they can certainly be paid for through the regular funds.

    @appalled@115 you are welcome. It is indeed a big difference.

    @njrob@120 Fox is trying to create a controversy that doesn’t exist, probably because controversy is good for ratings. It actually says in the article itself that its just the funding for the classes themselves, not the school funding. “they have heard complaints from schools with funding for shooting sport courses withheld” Looking further into it (much research, many drillings down), they seem to be conflating 2 different things as far as how to attain money.

    The law passed in june 22 was the BSCA, and it did several things. One of the things it did was that it amended the ESEA (which I quoted above) and which FOX seems to think it’s complaining about. ESEA funds are granted on a formulaic basis. Title I, Title IV, etc, no changes in funding for schools, just can’t use the money on an archery class.

    The new law, the BSCA also created a new and separate grant program (different pot of money than the ESEA money) that allows schools to apply for a grant from a pretty limited grant fund for a small specific program that they want to implement. Only a limited number of schools will receive a grant, they will be approved on a case by case basis, and when the fund is out of money, it’s out. One of the grant application guidelines is that you can’t write a grant that violates any of the ESEA Thou Shalt Nots, so you can’t write a grant to fund the hiring of an instructor for an archery program or a grant to pay for buying bows and arrows for such a program. (this may be what the NASP is actually complaining about, districts can’t write a grant from this grant fund to hire an instructor from them). This is the only place I can find where the Education Department guidelines say anything remotely like what FOX is saying, so it’s my best guess on what they are really talking about as far as “with-holding money” is concerned. If you write a grant to fund an archery program, you won’t get the grant because you can’t write a grant for something that violates the Thou Shalt Nots that I quoted in an earlier comment.

    @DRJ@121- It isn’t all funding. It’s just that you cant use the regular ESEA funds to fund your archery program. AFAICT Cornyn and Tillis are also talking about the grant program I described above. I’m not sure how it’s done in other states, but our SROs are actual police officers trained by the police department, we don’t use school funds to train them, basically we just provide them an office. However, some of our school resource officers are also instructors in our law enforcement CTE pathway, and they do get paid from school funds for the classes they teach (they are granted teaching credentials through a pathway that grants credentials to professionals with at least a BA who will teach in their professional area of expertise).

    The ESEA is the largest pot of federal funding, but it is a small part of actual school funding. This year my school is using ours to pay for 2 part-time classroom paraprofessionals (those are non-teacher adults who help out in a classroom), 2 sections of support classes (extra help classes for gen-ed students who are struggling in school), after school tutoring (one teacher for 1 hr 3 days a week), and about 1,000 of it to pay for PE uniforms, sports tickets, dance tickets, yearbooks, etc for needy students.

    @DRJ@123,124 In CA (I would assume in all states, but I’ve never dealt with school funding anywhere else), all funding is audited, everything in a school has a budget code that designates what money pays for it. We have to account for where all the money goes. Frex, each period of each class has a budget code that funds the teacher for that class for that period, 1st period English 7 taught by Mrs. Johnson has a budget code from the general fund. 1st period Careers and Technology also has a budget code from the general fund. 2nd period Careers and Technology, however, has a different budget code for a special fund from the state that is specifically for CTE classes. 1st and 2nd period academic support both have a budget code that is from our federal Title 1 funds. In the spring, when we are planning the course schedule for next year, we mark out and color code where the funding for every single class section is coming from, then in early fall (sometimes stuff changes right at the beginning of the year) the principal organizes that information (and all the other school budget information) and sends it up to the District office. Everything everything everything is delineated by where the money comes from.

    Nic (896fdf)

  139. Surrendering:

    …….,,,,

    In a two-page statement filed in federal court just before midnight Tuesday, Rudy Giuliani said he “does not contest” that his statements, which fueled a torrent of public attacks on the workers — Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss — were “false” and “carry meaning that is defamatory.”

    In the heavily couched statement, Giuliani also conceded that his statements meet the “factual elements of liability” for Moss and Freeman’s claims that his attacks amounted to “intentional infliction of emotional distress.”

    …………An aide, Ted Goodman, said his concessions and acknowledgments were an effort to bypass the fact-gathering stage and move on to legal arguments about whether he can be held liable for the damages Moss and Freeman are seeking.
    …………
    Giuliani’s stipulation appears intended to head off more legal pain in the long-running lawsuit, which has resulted in depositions of several high-level figures in Trump’s orbit, the disclosure of text messages, emails and deposition transcripts, and threatened significant financial penalties.

    Most recently, U.S. District Judge Beryl Howell, who is presiding over the lawsuit, threatened severe sanctions on Giuliani over claims that he failed to preserve significant caches of evidence related to the matter. Giuliani’s stipulation to the facts of the lawsuit came in response to an order from Howell demanding an explanation for his failure to produce certain batches of records and asking why she shouldn’t simply rule in Moss and Freeman’s favor.
    ………….
    Though the statement amounts to an admission of the facts, (his attorney, Joseph Sibley) said Giuliani still contends that he has legal defenses to the claims and is asking Howell to rule purely on those legal questions now that the facts have largely been established.
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (06e304)

  140. All of this talk about federal funding is exasperating. There shouldn’t even be a federal Department of Education.

    Resist the impulse to federalize everything.

    norcal (476514)

  141. What a tangled web we weave once we practice to deceive the people that we did something about school shootings. Cornyn was probably grinning from ear to ear and exchanging backslaps with his gun and ammunition lobbyists when the bill was passed.

    nk (1ed62d)

  142. BTW, never mind The Quest for Fire, where would an Arkansas library shelve “William Tell” and “Robin Hood”?

    nk (dc131e)

  143. In CA (I would assume in all states, but I’ve never dealt with school funding anywhere else), all funding is audited, everything in a school has a budget code that designates what money pays for it.

    Anyone who has ever dealt with a government funded project knows that there are all kinds of compliance costs. It’s not just audits.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  144. There shouldn’t even be a federal Department of Education.

    I would go further down that line.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  145. Federal judge temporarily blocks parts of Arkansas’ new library law

    Have they seen what goes on on television? Or is that next?

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  146. All of this talk about federal funding is exasperating. There shouldn’t even be a federal Department of Education.

    Yes, I agree with both you and DRJ on this. The most exasperating part of this story is that apparently the Department of Education just willy-nilly created this rule regarding archery and rifle. This gives me so many bad memories of Obamacare when it seemed every new regulation began with “The Secretary of HHS shall determine. . .” I am 100% in favor of winding down the Department of Education, at least as we know it. And DRJ is right that the GOP politicians who drafted this bill probably should have anticipated this mess.

    JVW (41c15b)

  147. I like Gimme Shelter on the Totally Stripped Live Amsterdam. Lisa Fischer has a nice performance

    steveg (1773be)

  148. My high school in coastal Southern California had shooting (plinking) in the basement below the gym and archery (plunking) out on the football field. I think that ended in the very early 70’s. Most exciting moment was when a bird landed on one of the Archery targets and we all shot at it. Then we did push ups, burpees, ran laps for the rest of the month.

    steveg (1773be)

  149. I’m not buying new vehicles. A friend of mine sold his very nice 70’s Ford Truck for 50K. I’m paying people to rebuild engines etc so I can keep driving a manual transmission. I’ve never had a daily driver that wasn’t a stick shift and I tend to left foot the brake pedal thinking it is the clutch when coming to a stop or when I hear the RPM’s hit the shift window

    steveg (1773be)

  150. Most exciting moment was when a bird landed on one of the Archery targets and we all shot at it.

    steveg (1773be) — 7/30/2023 @ 8:35 pm

    Yes, but did you hit it? Anybody can shoot at it. 😛

    norcal (4ce273)

  151. I’ve never had a daily driver that wasn’t a stick shift

    steveg (1773be) — 7/30/2023 @ 8:43 pm

    I take it you don’t go into LA very often.

    I drove my stick shift Jeep Wrangler to LA in March. Went back and forth from LA to Orange County on I-5. Stop and go. Stop and go. It was enough to make me want to sell the Wrangler and get something with an automatic transmission.

    norcal (4ce273)

  152. That time when Archery and shooting were dropped was right about the time all the WWII vets who had gone into teaching retired. Also why our Archery coach treated us like it was boot camp and why they all smelled like coffee booze and cigarettes. The baseball coach also taught English… which was odd if you knew him. His 8AM class consisted of him reading the local paper and the LA times with a thermos of coffee and us reading the ones he grifted for us. He’d go to the bathroom with the LA Times sports page for at least 20 minutes in the middle of class, come back. read us part of a Jim Murray column and give a quiz on the sports page. He usually had all the team captains keep order while he was indisposed. No one dared screw around in his classroom.

    steveg (1773be)

  153. steveg (1773be) — 7/30/2023 @ 8:59 pm

    Hilarious! The good old days.

    norcal (4ce273)

  154. @145 perhaps if local conservative fascists wouldn’t try to put librarians in jail and intimidate gay teachers among their many other acts. It could be discussed.

    asset (aeedb0)

  155. I remember a visit to a Mormon chapel in east Salt Lake County in the 70s. The chapel had a shooting range in the basement. I’d wager a large sum of money that it isn’t used as a shooting range anymore.

    norcal (4ce273)

  156. perhaps if local conservative fascists wouldn’t try to put librarians in jail and intimidate gay teachers among their many other acts. It could be discussed.

    asset (aeedb0) — 7/30/2023 @ 9:21 pm

    Those issues could be addressed without a federal Department of Education.

    norcal (4ce273)

  157. @160 Look at what the book of mormons think of black people. Until federal government threatened to take away the mormon church’s tax exempt status for being a racist institution costing LDS billions. 24 hours before fed were going into court to strip church of their tax exempt status the head of the mormon church got a revelation from the planet moroni that blacks were no longer considered “FILTH” if it was going to cost them money. God from planet moroni works fast when he has too!

    asset (aeedb0)

  158. head of the mormon church got a revelation

    asset (aeedb0) — 7/30/2023 @ 9:44 pm

    Now he just needs to have a “revelation” instructing the acceptance of gay people.

    norcal (4ce273)

  159. @steve@154 I have the same stick shift issue. I am mourning the idea that I will have to get an automatic for my next car, but there isn’t really any choice. I had a hard enough time tracking down a stick the last time and that was more than 10 years ago.

    Nic (896fdf)

  160. so I can keep driving a manual transmission. I’ve never had a daily driver that wasn’t a stick shift

    I used to drive a stick, too. Loved it. But eventually LA traffic got to the point where it was not any fun at all anymore.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  161. Norcal beat me to it.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  162. @145 perhaps if local conservative fascists wouldn’t try to put librarians in jail and intimidate gay teachers among their many other acts. It could be discussed.

    That same law that Nic quoted includes several “Don’t Say Sex” provisions.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  163. Those issues could be addressed without a federal Department of Education.

    The entire purpose of a federal D.Ed. is to provide a structure that requires bureaucrats at the state and local level to send them reports. Everything else is window-dressing. It’s a jobs program.

    Kevin M (2d6744)

  164. I learned to drive stick on a drive from Chicago to LA with a buddy. I couldn’t let him drive the whole thing, so I learned by necessity. That was a fun trip. My first time West of the Mississippi. Route 66, Grand Canyon, Vegas. Fun times.

    I drove a stick for a long time after that, but it is a big pain in stop and go traffic. My dad gifted me his old-but-low-mileage luxury automatic so now I drive that and don’t miss the stick too much.

    JRH (f10fea)

  165. But now I worry about the luxury beast in ways I never worried about the beat up Corolla. Scratch my Toyota? Be my guest. Take the mirror off it you want, I can replace it. Scratch the luxury gift? Please don’t, it will bum out my father.

    JRH (f10fea)

  166. What Republicans do best: Nothing.

    nk (6c45b4)

  167. Trump Crushing DeSantis and G.O.P. Rivals, Times/Siena Poll Finds

    Former President Donald J. Trump is dominating his rivals for the Republican presidential nomination, leading his nearest challenger, Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida, by a landslide 37 percentage points nationally among the likely Republican primary electorate, according to the first New York Times/Siena College poll of the 2024 campaign.

    Mr. Trump held decisive advantages across almost every demographic group and region and in every ideological wing of the party, the survey found, as Republican voters waved away concerns about his escalating legal jeopardy. He led by wide margins among men and women, younger and older voters, moderates and conservatives, those who went to college and those who didn’t, and in cities, suburbs and rural areas.
    ……..
    Overall, Mr. Trump led Mr. DeSantis 54 percent to 17 percent. No other candidate topped 3 percent support in the poll.

    Below those lopsided top-line figures were other ominous signs for Mr. DeSantis. He performed his weakest among some of the Republican Party’s biggest and most influential constituencies. He earned only 9 percent support among voters at least 65 years old and 13 percent of those without a college degree. Republicans who described themselves as “very conservative” favored Mr. Trump by a 50-point margin, 65 percent to 15 percent.
    ……….
    ……….(If) Mr. DeSantis got a hypothetical one-on-one race against Mr. Trump, he would still lose by a two-to-one margin, 62 percent to 31 percent, the poll found. That is a stark reminder that, for all the fretting among anti-Trump forces that the party would divide itself in a repeat of 2016, Mr. Trump is poised to trounce even a unified opposition.
    …………
    In interviews with poll respondents, a recurring theme emerged. They like Mr. DeSantis; they love Mr. Trump.
    …………
    The truly anti-Trump faction of the Republican electorate appears to hover near one in four G.O.P. voters, hardly enough to dethrone him. Only 19 percent of the electorate said Mr. Trump’s behavior after his 2020 defeat threatened American democracy. And only 17 percent see the former president as having committed any serious federal crimes…….
    …………
    Mr. Trump’s grip on the Republican Party is so strong, the Times/Siena poll found, that in a head-to-head contest with Mr. DeSantis, Mr. Trump still received 22 percent among voters who believe he has committed serious federal crimes — a greater share than the 17 percent that Mr. DeSantis earned from the entire G.O.P. electorate.
    …………
    …………(W)hen given a choice between a hypothetical candidate who prioritized “defeating radical woke ideology” or one who was focused on “law and order in our streets and at the border,” only 24 percent said they would be more likely to support the candidate focused on fighting “woke” issues.

    Equally problematic for Mr. DeSantis is that those “woke”-focused voters still preferred Mr. Trump, 61 percent to 36 percent.
    …………
    …………A strong majority of Republicans surveyed, 58 percent, said it was Mr. Trump, not Mr. DeSantis, who was best described by the phrase “able to beat Joe Biden.” And again, it was Mr. Trump, by a lopsided 67 percent to 22 percent margin, who was seen more as the one to “get things done.”
    …………
    Mr. DeSantis signed a strict six-week abortion ban that Mr. Trump has criticized as “too harsh.” Yet Mr. Trump enjoyed the support of 70 percent of Republicans who said they strongly supported such a measure.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  168. I swear, if Trump was dead, 30% of Republican primary voters would still say they were for him.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  169. Like A Rock:

    New polling from the Buckeye State is bad news for Ron DeSantis, who is slumping despite claiming the state of Ohio as part of his heritage in recent months.

    The Florida Governor’s presidential campaign is polling in single digits. According to a survey conducted between July 17 and July 26 by Ohio Northern University, DeSantis finds himself in third place.

    DeSantis has just 9% support, 3 points behind Vivek Ramaswamy and 55 points behind former President Donald Trump.

    The Governor doesn’t have a firm hold on third place either. Former Vice President Mike Pence has 6% support.

    This poll is by far the worst for DeSantis in Ohio.

    A USA Today survey conducted between July 9 and July 12 by Suffolk University shows Trump leading DeSantis by only 23 points, 48% to 25%. Ramaswamy was in low single digits in that poll.

    Meanwhile, a June poll from East Carolina University saw Trump leading DeSantis 59% to 15%.
    ……….

    Links to polls in article.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  170. #91 Rip – I was providing some information, that’s all. As I said, I think — this far from the general election — that betting markets are better predictors than polls. (And there is data to support that conclusion.)

    By the way, it is possible to bet, legally, in the United States, on election outcomes, here.

    (Full disclosure: My only election bet was on the 2004 presidential election. I won a cup of coffee from a friend, who had insisted on the bet. But I find the predictions from betting markets fascinating.)

    Jim Miller (3b785f)

  171. #91 Rip – I was providing some information, that’s all. As I said, I think — this far from the general election — that betting markets are better predictors than polls. (And there is data to support that conclusion.)

    As I said, the more important number are Trump’s odds of winning the GOP nomination (67%), which are more than double his chances of winning the general election (28%).

    Betting on the general election is too speculative at this point, since we don’t know who the Democratic candidate will be.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  172. If you write a grant to fund an archery program, you won’t get the grant because you can’t write a grant for something that violates the Thou Shalt Nots that I quoted in an earlier comment.

    So the federal government may be refusing grants for archery and gun programs. Interesting.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  173. The GOP is likely broken with its substantial support of Trump, but we also have not had a debate or a single vote cast. Trump leads based on partisan emotionalism. Is it immutable? Perhaps, but if more indictments drop and trials start to expose that it’s really not a deep state inquisition…Trump’s numbers will fall. How far? Let’s guess to 30%, though I suspect even more will get nervous, especially those that want a conservative court, a Republican Senate, and a right-leaning management of the regulatory state. At some point, Trump will be too tainted to win enough moderates and independents to beat whoever the Democrats put up. There will be a come-to-Jesus moment, especially if Trump has to miss debates to not incriminate himself or he continues to spout unsupported nonsense.

    I think 30% of the GOP is locked into personality and Trump’s drama. So 70% of the vote will have to go elsewhere. DeSantis’ inability to woo Trumpers does not bode well for the governor, though he may move the needle in the debate. We don’t know. He lacks some of the other candidate’s natural likability, but that’s why there is debate prep and why we have to wait and see. Most candidates will stick until there is a vote, they run out of money, or their polls give them no hope. There is too much uncertainty for many of them to prematurely eject. Trumpism is a cult, but politics is ultimately about winning. I think there is more to be written here.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  174. especially if Trump has to miss debates to not incriminate himself or he continues to spout unsupported nonsense.

    I see the August debates as a singularity.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  175. Scott or Haley vs Biden (or Newsom) seems like a winner.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  176. And yet, if the election were held tomorrow, the candidates were Biden and Trump, and it was polling close in my state, I would vote for Biden.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1ilrb4RIjk4

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  177. “I see the August debates as a singularity.”

    It’s make or break for Haley. She can’t be off and wallow around 2% and keep her big money donors happy. I think she will have more to talk about than Scott and will come across as more likable than DeSantis. Ramaswamy will be this year’s Ben Carson. Pence is struggling to get to the debate. That should say it all for him. Christie will consolidate the NeverTrump who need Trump’s blood. It’s unfortunate but a lot of the debate grading will be on how well each candidate manages the Trump question. I know my thoughts on the issue, but I’m an outlier.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  178. So, evidently, Archer testified that Hunter Biden did call his dad on numerous occasions with his business associates.

    And Dan Goldman’s “spin” that it was only “small talk” and talking about the weather.

    That’s not the point.

    The point is/was: Hunter getting Joe on speakerphone WAS THE DELIVERABLE. He was showing that he could get the VP of the US on the phone was all Hunter had to show his clients to seal the deal.

    He was selling ACCESS not policy.

    Now, influence peddling itself isn’t necessarily illegal.

    But it’s most definitely impeachment worthy.

    whembly (5f7596)

  179. Don’t expect that to go over well with some Whembly.

    Expect more of, “He just loves his son.” or ” “at this point, what difference does it make?”

    Carry on

    NJRob (5a0d7c)

  180. Joanna Stern Wall Street Journal July article on voicemail and messages with included voicemail greeting:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/voicemail-apple-iphone-call-screening-2d2fa77f

    …There’s just one problem: We stopped leaving—and checking—voice messages years ago. Texting “call me” is now more efficient than “blah, blah, call me back at your earliest convenience.”

    Heck, back in 2014, 80% of callers didn’t leave messages because they didn’t think they’d be heard. I couldn’t find more recent stats, maybe because pollsters couldn’t find any voicemail users to poll.

    For voicemail to make a comeback, we’re going to have to, well, use voicemail. And I think we should. Yes, I hear you doubters: “Sure, and let’s dust off our fax machines while we’re at it!” But hear me out—after the beep.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  181. RIP, Mr. Reubens.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  182. whembly (5f7596) — 7/31/2023 @ 12:44 pm

    And Dan Goldman’s “spin” that it was only “small talk” and talking about the weather.

    That’s not the point.

    The point is/was: Hunter getting Joe on speakerphone WAS THE DELIVERABLE. He was showing that he could get the VP of the US on the phone was all Hunter had to show his clients to seal the deal.

    He was selling ACCESS not policy.

    Except he was probably lying to his clients and also not telling his father what he was telling his clients (because why risk rejection on the part of his father?)

    Now, influence peddling itself isn’t necessarily illegal.

    But it’s most definitely impeachment worthy.

    I think there are a bunch of things that are impeachment worthy and not illegal. An impeachable offense does not have to be a crime.

    Now whether this is impeachment worthy is another question. Joe seems to have facilitated Hunter’s activities.

    And the other thing we have is – someone – has been affecting the Department of Justice. Those are the two clearest things.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  183. RIP, Mr. Reubens.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 7/31/2023 @ 1:17 pm

    I wouldn’t wish Reubens to rest in peace, his criminal record should be taken into account.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  184. @183 Whembly if they can show that Joe
    -Was compensated financially
    -modified, or commited to modify US policy to get his son paid.

    I’m inclined to agree with you.

    Also, IANAL but if you’re a lobbyist for a foreign company do you have to register as a foreign agent? Because it seems pretty clear Hunter was getting paid to lobby his dad. (Not sure what else to call it based on the evidence known to date)

    Anyone know if there are conflict of interest laws that prevent elected officials family members from being lobbyists? There should be.

    Time123 (c82c96)

  185. whembly (5f7596) — 7/31/2023 @ 12:44 pm

    And Dan Goldman’s “spin” that it was only “small talk” and talking about the weather.

    That’s not the point.

    The point is/was: Hunter getting Joe on speakerphone WAS THE DELIVERABLE. He was showing that he could get the VP of the US on the phone was all Hunter had to show his clients to seal the deal.

    He was selling ACCESS not policy.

    I think he was selling something a little bit more than he knew his father. He was selling that his father knew about them -his clients – his deals.
    Whether Joe Biden really knew very much or virtually nothing.

    We must consider evidence of things not seen.

    Hunter Biden was probably lying to his clients and also not telling his father what he was telling his clients (why tell him? Why risk rejection on the part of his father?)

    Now, influence peddling itself isn’t necessarily illegal.

    It could be if it amounted to bribery -if Joe Biden was supposed to do something official. Although there wasn’t anything official he could do besides give advice to President Obama.

    But it’s most definitely impeachment worthy.

    I think there are a bunch of things that are impeachment worthy and not illegal. An impeachable offense does not have to be a crime.

    Now whether this is impeachment worthy is another question.

    Joe seems to have facilitated Hunter’s activities. Without necessarily knowing exactly what Hunter was doing.

    And the other thing we have is that – someone – has been affecting the conduct of the Department of Justice.

    Those are the two clearest things.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  186. Only the claim being raised today is not true. What half the Republicans are screaming about is facially absolutely false.

    DOJ did not attempt to put Devon Archer in jail in order to prevent his closed door testimony today.

    They asked for the judge to set a report to jail date. No way would he be in jail for several more weeks.

    It’s not even intended to cause him to think again.

    That request for a report to jail date may be because his appeal was rejected last Tuesday (others – Miranda Devine – say two months ago- You see how it is with information.

    Maybe it could reduce the value of a letter from the committee asking for leniency – but he’s already been sentenced! The question is how soon he reports to jail or if he can further delay in order to testify further to Congress or in an impeachment inquiry or impeachment)

    Sammy Finkelman (d007a3)

  187. Now, influence peddling itself isn’t necessarily illegal.

    Peddling that to foreign buyers is illegal unless you register as a foreign agent.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  188. Maybe wait ’til the transcript comes out, given that Marge has a different story, but Marge always has a different story.
    Assuming CNN’s two sources are accurate, there’s a difference between selling access–which is a Hunter problem, not a Joe problem*–and selling the illusion of access, which may not be a Hunter problem but is not a Joe problem.
    But the former is more serious, for Hunter, because it could be a FARA violation if those associates were non-Americans.

    Devon Archer told the House Oversight Committee on Monday that his former business partner, Hunter Biden, was selling the “illusion” of access to his father, according to a source familiar with the closed-door interview, the latest development in the Republican-led congressional investigations into the president’s son.

    The source also reiterated that Archer provided no evidence connecting President Joe Biden to any of his son’s foreign business dealings.

    *If it’s true that “business was never discussed”.
    If it’s established Joe was actually conducting business on behalf of his son, then Joe got a problem.
    Lastly, this is the testimony of a convicted felon, so there’s already a cloud over his credibility.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  189. Devon Archer -(who says about the case in which he was convicted that he was a victim because he lost money) is not playing along with what some Republicans would like him to say.

    They pay attention to what Hunter Biden said and keep on hoping that Joe Biden got money or discussed what he was going to do for Hunter’s clients.

    Devon Archer says he will answer questions honestly.That probably means that he’s not going to say, as they hope, as it’s been leaked, the thing that Dan Goldman was at some pains to say did not happen, that that Joe Biden discussed how he was going to get some money or what he or Hunter was going to do. They keep on hoping they can find =d something.

    But most likely, Joe was not saying anything specific. He was just intentionally letting his son and brother make some money off of him, and that was all..

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  190. ………if more indictments drop and trials start to expose that it’s really not a deep state inquisition…Trump’s numbers will fall. How far? Let’s guess to 30%, though I suspect even more will get nervous, especially those that want a conservative court, a Republican Senate, and a right-leaning management of the regulatory state. At some point, Trump will be too tainted to win enough moderates and independents to beat whoever the Democrats put up. There will be a come-to-Jesus moment, especially if Trump has to miss debates to not incriminate himself or he continues to spout unsupported nonsense.

    What is the evidence that more indictments will convince his supporters that it isn’t a deep state conspiracy? Additional indictments will only convince the faithful that the Deep State will go to any lengths to deny Trump his (stolen) second term. The Trump faithful aren’t looking to the general election; most Republicans when polled on the question view Trump as having the best chance to beat Biden. As recent national polls (and betting markets) have confirmed, Trump today has a mortal lock on the Republican Party.

    To win the nomination Trump only needs a small proportion of primary voters, with Republican “moderates and independents” split among the Lilliputians. See my <a href="“>post 117 on how Trump is trying to rig the game is his favor.

    There will be a come-to-Jesus moment, especially if Trump has to miss debates to not incriminate himself or he continues to spout unsupported nonsense.

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  191. It’s make or break for Haley.

    Indeed. But Scott has to do well, too, and DeSantis has to not do poorly. Remember, though, that Gingrich went from nowhere to contention with a debate performance and Fiorina broke out of the cellar with hers.

    If Trump shows up, he has the most to lose. Christie will be baiting him ruthlessly, and Trump might totally lose it. He has maybe a third of the GOP voters locked in, but he’s fragile with a lot of the others.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  192. Trump is not only likely to skip debates but set up some counterprogramming on NewsMax.

    Trump has status going for him.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  193. Apropos Mick Jagger

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  194. @191: That’s my take, too, Paul. But Biden still has a problem with the DoJ’s passive investigation of Joe’s son. Sure, the USA was appointed by Trump, but everyone else was either appointed by Biden or hopes to have a job for a while longer. No one is getting a great review for nailing Hunter Biden.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  195. Gulliver has no incentive to debate the Lilliputians. He would rather set up DeSantis as the target of their slings and arrows.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  196. @191, Paul, this testimony clearly justifies additional investigation, even if there’s no evidence yet of a crime or abuse of power. Also, if archer is lying for some reason why not add in details that would implicate Joe criminally?

    Time123 (c82c96)

  197. @195: I expect Trump to show. It’s center stage and he’ll want to be there. It would be really bad if he counter-programmed and his ratings sucked.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  198. @197, some of the IRS agents complaints were for issues that occurred before Joe was president. It doesn’t mean the DOJ was doing their job properly but it does make it less likely Joe was behind it.

    Time123 (c82c96)

  199. He would rather set up DeSantis as the target of their slings and arrows.

    DeSantis will be the target of Haley and Scott anyway, unless they find the stones to attack Trump, which I wish for but don’t see as yet. Christie will attack Trump — and have noticeably more time to do it — even if Trump isn’t there. HE spent a good portion of his CNN Townhall doing just that.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  200. This is how Hunter Biden worked. Hunter made a key for Joe Biden (Jill, too!) in 2017 for an office – a key Joe Biden never picked up for an office he never went to, (Hunter later said that was to make sure there was no trouble from the landlord or something like that.)

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-requested-keys-new-office-mates-joe-biden-chinese-emissary-cefc-chairman

    Hunter Biden requested keys for new ‘office mates’ Joe Biden, Chinese ’emissary’ to CEFC chairman, emails show

    Joe Biden has repeatedly denied involvement with son’s business dealings..

    ….The Sept. 20, 2017 email, obtained by Fox News, shows Hunter requesting keys for Joe and Jill Biden, along with his uncle, Jim Biden, to the general manager, Cecilia Browning, at the House of Sweden — a building in Washington, D.C., which contains multiple office suites, as well as a number of embassies.

    “[P]lease have keys made available for new office mates: Joe Biden, Jill Biden, Jim Biden,” said the email, with the subject “507.”

    …“I would like the office sign to reflect the following,” he continued, requesting “The Biden Foundation” and “Hudson West (CEFC US).”

    “The lease will remain under my company’s name Rosemont Seneca,” he continued, providing details about Dong and Ye, whom he referred to as “my partner,” as well as their contact information….

    Ye Jianming, then aged about 40, the chairman of CEFC Chinese Energy Co., is the guy who later wound up somewhere in the Chinese Gulag – after Hunter, claiming inside information, may have induced him to flee the United States in order to avoid being arrested by the FBI, but that it was safe for another person associated with CEFC (Patrick Ho) to come to the United States was safe except he got arrested, convicted, sentenced to jail and was returned to China

    …Hunter Biden also provides Joe and Jim Biden’s personal cell phone numbers, according to the email, and urges one of the building staff to “call them at her convenience if she insists.”

    In another email, obtained by Fox News, the manager responds, saying that “[w]e are very excited and honored to welcome your new colleagues.” The manager then asks to confirm that Hunter Biden wants four more keys and a “[c]hange of names on the doors and in the north entrance.” ..

    …A source familiar with the Biden Foundation told Fox News that they used office space, at the time, in a WeWork space near the White House, and in an office within law firm Perkins Coie, saying there was no relation to the office space at Rosemont Seneca within the House of Sweden.

    Rosemont Seneca did indeed rent space there during the year Feb 2017 to Feb 2018.

    ….The committees also found, as part of their investigation into the younger Biden’s foreign business dealings, that he opened a bank account with Dong which financed a $100,000 global spending spree with his uncle, Jim Biden, and Jim Biden’s wife, Sara.

    Pure embezzlement, really.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  201. It doesn’t mean the DOJ was doing their job properly but it does make it less likely Joe was behind it.

    Could be just party and/or avoiding own goals. Remember that only the top level officials are subject to spoils hiring. Trump wants to reach deeper as a lot of policy happens at mid-level, if only through passive agressiveness. Trump aide, it’s probably a good idea for normal presidents.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  202. Joe Biden has repeatedly denied involvement with son’s business dealings.

    Nothing active anyway. But I could see him benefiting passively. Follow the Money™

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  203. Also, if there were 20 calls from Hunter on speakerphone while his business associates were in the room, that puts Joe’s judgment into question. Was it illegal on Joe’s part? I don’t know. Was it impeachable? Yes, it’s impeachable if a majority in the House votes to impeach, because impeachment is more a political process than a judicial process.

    And regarding Joe’s judgment, he should’ve told Hunter after call #2 to stop doing those kinds of calls.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  204. Ouch!

    ……….
    NBC News reached out to 44 of the dozens of people who served in Trump’s Cabinet over his term in office. Most declined to comment or ignored the requests. A total of four have said publicly they support his run for re-election. Several have been coy about where they stand, stopping short of endorsing Trump with the GOP primary race underway. Then there are those who outright oppose his bid for the GOP nomination or are adamant that they don’t want him back in power.

    “I have made clear that I strongly oppose Trump for the nomination and will not endorse Trump,” former Attorney General Bill Barr told NBC News. Asked how he would vote if the general election pits Trump against President Joe Biden, a Democrat, Barr said: “I’ll jump off that bridge when I get to it.”
    ………
    Those backing Trump’s bid for another term include former acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker; Mark Meadows, his final chief of staff; former budget chief Russell Vought; and former acting director of national intelligence Richard Grenell, who in June tweeted “Trump 2024” above a tweet from Trump’s main GOP rival, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.
    ………
    Those who’ve not endorsed Trump at this point include his former secretary of state and CIA director, Mike Pompeo; a former defense secretary, Pat Shanahan; one former chief of staff, John Kelly; and two of his directors of national intelligence, Joseph Maguire and Dan Coats.

    Another former chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, is among those who wants Trump defeated in the GOP primaries.
    ……..
    Former defense secretary Mark Esper told CNN in an interview earlier this month that he doesn’t plan on endorsing anyone and believes Trump is not “fit for office because he puts himself first and I think anybody running for office should put the country first.”
    ………
    A number of Cabinet members contacted by NBC News either declined comment or did not respond. That in itself is a source of frustration for some anti-Trump advocates, who would like to see more people who’ve worked closely with Trump speak candidly about the experience.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  205. Jack Smith, the Trump special counsel,isaccused by arts=isans of being overl aggressive,and that he did nowwant to revealhis subordinaes but (atleast) oneis nowknown Karen Gilbert and she issaid to be notonl aggressiveorapartidsaan (made nmerous politicalcontributons) but unethical.

    https://nypost.com/2023/06/17/top-trump-prosecutor-karen-gilbert-has-checkered-past

    Top Trump prosecutor Karen Gilbert has checkered past: ‘Sorry sack of lies’

    By Jon Levine

    June 17, 2023

    ….A top prosecutor in the classified documents case against former President Trump was once cited for unethical behavior in a federal drug case, court records show.

    Karen Gilbert, 59, who now has a leading role in Special Counsel Jack Smith’s prosecution of former President Trump, was forced to resign as chief of the narcotics section of the Miami U.S. Attorney’s office for her role in secretly taping a defense lawyer in 2009, court papers show.

    The case involved Dr. Ali Shaygan, a Florida family medicine physician, who faced 141 counts of illegally dispensing pain medication. In June 2007, James Brendan Downey, a patient of Shaygan, died days after receiving a methadone prescription from Shaygan.

    …Gilbert, and her then-colleague Sean Cronin, suspected witness tampering on the part of the defense. And so without approval from the local U.S. Attorney at the time, R. Alexander Acosta, Gilbert, and Cronin authorized a wiretap of Shaygan’s lawyer — which ultimately yielded nothing.

    ….In a sharply critical 50-page decision — which described Gilbert and her team as acting in “bad faith” and with “gross negligence” — U.S. District Judge Alan Gold ordered the government to pay Shaygan $601,795 in legal fees. That order was later overturned by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  206. Every day here it is the same fairey dust. Republicans will turn away from Trump and populism and vote against their self interest for a traditional conservative who wants to cut medicare and social security and send their jobs over seas with free trade as the polls show Trump and populism grows stronger in the republican party.

    asset (bab026)

  207. But Biden still has a problem with the DoJ’s passive investigation of Joe’s son.

    I’m leaning more and more to Garland appointing a Special Counsel, Kevin. There’s always one more revelation that keeps coming out. Most of them don’t hold water (like Comer’s ridiculous claim that DOJ was going to jail Archer to prevent him from testifying, or anything from Comer for that matter), but there are enough to justify a more independent look-through.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  208. Well, I wouldn’t choose Comer as the SC.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  209. Every day here it is the same fairey dust. Republicans will turn away from Trump and populism

    Most of us would settle for populism without Trump. The GOP platform of 2012 is as dead as Caesar.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  210. I’m leaning more and more to Garland appointing a Special Counsel…..

    Not gonna happen during an election year.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  211. That most of Donald Trump’s appointees who held Cabinet rank at least temporarily (acting) are not supporting him might be an idea for a campaign ad.

    Two, Nikki Haley and Vice President Mike Pence (is he among the 44?) are actually competing against him)

    Mark Meadows (for whose book Trump discussed the Iran war plans in a recorded interview) is for him and Mick Mulvaney is against.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  212. How to Jump Start the DeSantis Campaign:

    Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY), who endorsed Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) for president in 2024, joked in a new interview that the Florida governor should be indicted, alluding to the polling boost former President Donald Trump saw after each of his indictments and target letters were announced.

    “I’ve said we got to figure out, we got to find some judge in Florida that’ll indict DeSantis quick, to close this indictment gap,” Massie suggested.

    The Kentucky Republican told the Miami Herald, “I feel sympathy for Trump. And I understand why people are gravitating towards him in this time. It’s a referendum on the swamp versus Trump, and it’s seen as, if you don’t support Trump in this moment, some of the voters see it as being swampy. If you’re not with him, you must be with the other guys. And it makes it tough.”
    ……….
    The constant barrage of developments in Trump’s various cases has made it nearly impossible to tell if the strategies of Republican candidates are effective since they can’t seem to break through the noise. The candidates also may be handicapping themselves by refusing to criticize Trump for the large legal baggage he would carry to a general election, according to GOP strategists.
    ##########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  213. However, as much as I’d rather it didn’t, Medicare will get cuts no matter what, or at least Medicare Advantage plans will be much more attractive as the prices for “Original Medicare” are jacked up.

    Social Security doesn’t need much change. Far less than the Dole Commission imposed on my generation of workers. A year later, perhaps, and maybe half a percent more out of the paycheck. Dole doubled FICA taxes by jacking up the rate and expanding the cap.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  214. Note: It’s not an option on what happens with Medicare — either do it now or wait until the money’s spent.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  215. Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 7/31/2023 @ 2:15 pm

    Darling Nikki is campaigning against Donald Trump? Who knew?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  216. Comer’s ridiculous claim that DOJ was going to jail Archer to prevent him from testifying,

    Comer’s claim was more careful than that. (it’s still not good)

    I heard this attempted jailing claim on on the Mark Simone radio show on WOR this morning – he then claimed that DOJ backtracked.

    Miranda Devine does not attribute that to Comer:

    https://nypost.com/2023/07/30/doj-cant-sink-any-lower-after-attempted-arrest-of-hunter-bidens-ex-partner-devon-archer

    Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer (R-Ky.) describes the letter as “obstruction of justice.”

    In an interview with Fox News’ Maria Bartiromo on Sunday, he decried “the lengths to which the Biden legal team has gone to try to intimidate our witnesses, to coordinate with the DOJ and certainly to coordinate with the Democrats on the House Oversight Committee to encourage people not to cooperate with our investigation.”

    Comer accused DOJ of intimidation.

    Now this is nonsense. Michael Cohen also testified in advance of going to jail and nobody said Trump was trying to stop his testimony.

    His appeal failed two months ago.

    Another New York Post story today said his appeal was turned down last Tuesday. I didn’t cross check yet to see who was right, but if somebody invented the detailthat it was two months ago..you finish this sentence.

    White House press secretaries have repeated the line ad nauseam for almost three years, until last week, in the wake of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, when the phrasing changed.

    The correct time for the White House reversal is late June, as some more careful Republicans alleged. I’m surprised that Miranda Devine is still on last week. Last week is maybe when it was noticed and asked about by a reporter.

    In return for his cooperation, Archer will be hoping for a letter from the Oversight Committee to Abrams urging leniency, perhaps in the form of home detention

    Isn’t it too late for that? And would it be likely to help?

    Miranda Devine writes that Archer’s attorney says Archer doesn’t agree that this letter was an attempt to affect his testimony(so I think tis column was rushed)

    …Archer’s lawyer, Matthew Schwartz, a managing partner at Boies Schiller, the firm where Hunter once was “of counsel,” denied any deleterious effect on his client Sunday.

    “We are aware of speculation that the DOJ’s weekend request to have Mr. Archer report to prison is an attempt by the Biden administration to intimidate him in advance of his meeting with the House Oversight Committee,” Schwartz said in a statement to Politico. “To be clear, Mr. Archer does not agree with that speculation.”

    Sammy Finkelman (d007a3)

  217. @189

    @183 Whembly if they can show that Joe
    -Was compensated financially
    -modified, or commited to modify US policy to get his son paid.

    I’m inclined to agree with you.

    ‘Tis why an impeachment is needed. The House investigating this, with subpoena powers, is the only way they’re going to be able to unravel this.

    Also, IANAL but if you’re a lobbyist for a foreign company do you have to register as a foreign agent? Because it seems pretty clear Hunter was getting paid to lobby his dad. (Not sure what else to call it based on the evidence known to date)

    Anyone know if there are conflict of interest laws that prevent elected officials family members from being lobbyists? There should be.

    Time123 (c82c96) — 7/31/2023 @ 1:33 pm

    What you’re talking about is FARA, which Hunter has never registered himself.

    FARA, is designed to force transparency into these sort of dealings when it’s on behalf of foreign actors. The idea being, since it’s transparent, the gross influence peddling/bribery is mitigated.

    whembly (5f7596)

  218. Miranda Devine says quite clearly that the letter from the SDNY asked for the judge

    to set a date for Archer, 58, to report to prison to serve a one-year sentence for his role in a $60 million bond fraud; he was convicted in 2018.

    which would not lock him before his testimony.

    The person whose testimony may have been prevented or delayed wasDr. Gal Luft,whoclaimed that (at least he was told =) that Hunter said he had an informant in the FBI.

    https://nypost.com/2023/03/22/hunter-biden-used-fbi-mole-to-tip-him-off-to-china-probes-tipster

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  219. 219. Kevin M (ed969f) — 7/31/2023 @ 2:18 pm

    Note: It’s not an option on what happens with Medicare — either do it now or wait until the money’s spent.

    Or reform the whole medical payment system,

    Sammy Finkelman (d007a3)

  220. @201

    @191, Paul, this testimony clearly justifies additional investigation, even if there’s no evidence yet of a crime or abuse of power. Also, if archer is lying for some reason why not add in details that would implicate Joe criminally?

    Time123 (c82c96) — 7/31/2023 @ 1:53 pm

    I don’t think Archer can afford to lie to Congress. He’s under oath, and if found he’s fibbing, I don’t think the DOJ can ignore it when Congress refers charges for perjury.

    It’s certainly possible that Archer is withhold really juicy details and “play it both sides”. But, what we know now, Archer’s statements warrants impeachment investigation imo.

    whembly (5f7596)

  221. I suspect a GOP mpeachment of Biden will help Biden’s popularity with Democrats the way the indictments have helped Trump with his base.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  222. @212

    I’m leaning more and more to Garland appointing a Special Counsel, Kevin. There’s always one more revelation that keeps coming out. Most of them don’t hold water (like Comer’s ridiculous claim that DOJ was going to jail Archer to prevent him from testifying, or anything from Comer for that matter), but there are enough to justify a more independent look-through.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 7/31/2023 @ 2:10 pm

    I think a Special Counsel is going to be a dead end from now on. I doubt you can find anyone outside of the DOJ who satisfies each side of the political aisle.

    At this point, I think Impeachment investigation is the only thing left to do. And, I’m still of the opinion that the GOP isn’t quite “there” to pull that trigger.

    whembly (5f7596)

  223. @226

    I suspect a GOP mpeachment of Biden will help Biden’s popularity with Democrats the way the indictments have helped Trump with his base.

    DRJ (ba8685) — 7/31/2023 @ 2:46 pm

    I absolutely would agree with that. But, only for likely Democrat voters.

    I think the independent voters won’t be so sympathetic.

    whembly (5f7596)

  224. A Biden impeachment will stave off primary challenges of Republican Congressmen in safe red districts, and they don’t ask for more than that.

    nk (e120ae)

  225. @DRJ@177 That’s my best guess about what they are actually talking about assuming they are confused, not being deliberately dishonest.

    Nic (896fdf)

  226. Atlanta braces for possible indictments in 2020 election investigation

    ………
    That speculation hit fever pitch in recent days with the installation of orange security barriers near the main entrance of the Fulton County Courthouse in downtown Atlanta. It was the most visible sign yet of the looming charging decision in a case that has ensnared not only Trump but several high-profile Republicans who could either face charges or stand witness in a potential trial unlike anything seen before in this Southern metropolis.
    ……..
    “The work is accomplished,” (Fulton County District Attorney Fani T. Willis) told Atlanta’s WXIA-TV Saturday. “We’ve been working for two-and-a-half years. We’re ready to go.”
    ……..
    Willis has strongly hinted for months that she will seek multiple indictments in the case, using Georgia’s expansive anti-racketeering statutes that allow prosecutors not only to charge in-state wrongdoing but to use activities in other states to prove criminal intent in Georgia. In court filings, Willis has described her probe as an investigation of “multi-state, coordinated efforts to influence the results of the November 2020 elections in Georgia and elsewhere.”

    At least 18 people were informed by prosecutors last year that they were targets of the investigation. ……..Georgia law does not require individuals to be formally notified they are targets of an investigation.
    ……….
    Under Georgia law, a defendant does not have to be present when an indictment is unsealed — meaning the grand jury’s decision could be made public as soon as it is delivered to a presiding judge, who will read the charges in open court.

    Anyone charged in an indictment would then negotiate with the sheriff’s office on when to surrender to authorities for processing. An initial court date could occur immediately upon surrender or at a later date. If Willis does charge multiple defendants as part of an anti-racketeering case, it is not expected they would make their first appearance in court together but would likely have joint hearings at a later date.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  227. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 7/31/2023 @ 4:43 pm

    Related:

    ……….
    In a nine-page ruling, Fulton County Superior Court Judge Robert McBurney said it’s simply too soon for Trump or his allies to seek to prohibit Georgia prosecutors from continuing to investigate him — in large part because he hasn’t been indicted yet.

    “[W]hile being the subject (or even target) of a highly publicized criminal investigation is likely an unwelcome and unpleasant experience, no court ever has held that that status alone provides a basis for the courts to interfere with or halt the investigation,” wrote McBurney, who spent a year overseeing District Attorney Fani Willis’ special grand jury investigation of Trump’s election-related actions.
    ……….
    Earlier this month, the Georgia Supreme Court unanimously rejected a separate attempt by Trump to shut down Willis’ investigation.
    ………
    “Guessing at what that picture might look like before the investigative dots are connected may be a popular game for the media and blogosphere, but it is not a proper role for the courts and formal legal argumentation,” McBurney wrote.
    ………
    Trump has contended that Willis’ yearlong efforts to assemble evidence through the use of a “special grand jury” — a quirk of Georgia law that permits district attorneys to lead wide-ranging, complex probes — should be thrown out as unconstitutional. He also said Willis has a conflict, given her political advocacy for Democrats.

    McBurney said Trump had failed to back up those claims, which require concrete evidence. ………
    ……….
    McBurney said he appreciates the potential that a wrongful indictment could damage someone’s reputation. But anyone claiming misconduct has to be specific.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  228. Or reform the whole medical payment system,

    Yeah, that’ll happen.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  229. Darling Nikki is campaigning against Donald Trump? Who knew?

    That’s your takeaway from that article?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  230. I suspect a GOP mpeachment of Biden will help Biden’s popularity with Democrats the way the indictments have helped Trump with his base.

    It will make it impossible for the party to dump him. All his potential competitors will have to show their support.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  231. Maybe Trump will flee the country. It would be funny though if Putin turned him away.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  232. Darling Nikki is campaigning against Donald Trump? Who knew?

    That’s your takeaway from that article?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 7/31/2023 @ 5:01 pm

    It was a joke, but truth be told she has spent more time attacking DeSantis than Trump.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  233. Kevin M (ed969f) — 7/31/2023 @ 5:01 pm

    And I was responding directly to a Finkelman comment. Darling Nikki hasn’t really been campaigning against Trump, she is running for second place.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  234. https://twitter.com/MythinformedMKE/status/1686005316939345921

    I knew that Neil deGrasse Tyson was overpromoted and overhyped. I didn’t realize he was a moron as well.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  235. Trump calls on GOP opponents to drop out of 2024 race

    Yeah, like that will happen.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  236. I think the independent voters won’t be so sympathetic.

    All that matters right noe are the primary voters. Trump has his locked up. Biden might, too.

    But, ultimately, the ones that will matter are voters in the general election, and my guess is the independents will matter the most then. Do you think the independent voters will be more sympathetic with Biden or Trump?

    DRJ (ba8685)

  237. Knowing what we know now.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  238. And I was responding directly to a Finkelman comment. Darling Nikki hasn’t really been campaigning against Trump, she is running for second place.

    They are all running for second choice (after Trump is out).

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  239. BTW, has Biden ever denied being on those calls with Hunter?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  240. I didn’t realize he was a moron as well.

    Next he’ll say that Schrödinger’s cat makes a choice.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  241. NJRob (eb56c3) — 7/31/2023 @ 5:15 pm

    Is it any skin off your nose if a guy dresses like a girl, or vice-versa?

    Why is he a moron? Just because he disagrees with you? In that case, I suspect there are quite a few morons around here.

    norcal (6fbd12)

  242. They are all running for second choice (after Trump is out).

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 7/31/2023 @ 5:32 pm

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  243. (after Trump is out)

    Comedy Gold!

    Former President Donald Trump on Friday vowed that he will not abandon his presidential campaign even if he is convicted and sentenced.

    “Not at all,” Trump told conservative radio host John Fredericks when asked if a conviction and sentence would end his campaign. “There’s nothing in the Constitution to say that it could — even the radical left crazies are saying no that wouldn’t stop. It wouldn’t stop me either.”
    ………
    Trump said the American people know how to put his legal problems in perspective.

    “First of all, the public is very smart,” Trump said. ‘They know it. They study it. This isn’t like he held a gun in plain view and shot someone or he robbed a bank and got caught.”
    ……….
    Asked about how the legal clouds are affecting his family, Trump said it is “always unpleasant” to have to tell former first lady Melania Trump that he’s going to be indicted. Earlier this week, The New York Times reported that Melania Trump’s main focus has been helping their son Barron with his college search.

    “It’s always unpleasant when you have to go and tell your wife, tomorrow sometime I’m going to be indicted,” Trump said. “And she says, ‘For what?’ I say, ‘I have no idea.’ Normally, you know exactly but these people are thugs.”
    ###########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  244. Is it any skin off your nose if a guy dresses like a girl, or vice-versa?

    Why is he a moron? Just because he disagrees with you? In that case, I suspect there are quite a few morons around here.

    norcal (6fbd12) — 7/31/2023 @ 5:42 pm

    1. It’s a lie.

    2. It’s a false choice.

    3. He’s ignoring the power of the law to force people to believe the lie and promote it. See ladies private rooms and sports teams.

    Thanks for reading.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  245. According to his campaign, the ten planks of DeSantis’s economic plan are:

    Taking back control of our economy from China and restoring our economic sovereignty
    Achieving three percent growth by incentivizing investment, eliminating bureaucracy and red tape, and keeping taxes low
    Unleashing American energy independence
    Ending environmental, social, and governance standards and political engineering by large investors
    Restoring merit and respect for the individual as the central criteria for economic advancement
    Reforming our education system and lowering barriers to entry for working class Americans
    Creating a fair labor market by securing the border and enforcing our laws
    Reining in the Federal Reserve
    Opposing bailouts and holding bad economic actors responsible
    Fighting reckless and wasteful federal spending.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  246. @241

    All that matters right noe are the primary voters. Trump has his locked up. Biden might, too.

    But, ultimately, the ones that will matter are voters in the general election, and my guess is the independents will matter the most then. Do you think the independent voters will be more sympathetic with Biden or Trump?

    DRJ (ba8685) — 7/31/2023 @ 5:22 pm

    Could go either way.

    If GOP impeachment hearings clearly links influence/bribery to Joe Biden, I think indies would swing to Trump. If the hearing is trash, then I can certainly see indies be more sympathetic to Biden.

    whembly (c88dc4)

  247. KevinM

    Maybe little rocket man will send a Trump indictment protest missile in the general direction of Japan. be funnier if he offered Trump asylum

    steveg (1eb816)

  248. I can’t tell either, Whembly. It might split with men favoring Trump and women favoring Biden.

    DRJ (ba8685)

  249. Bad news for desatan latest NYT poll trump 53% up from 49% in last poll. Desatan now down to 17% and he has is own stormy daniels! Owner of vixens sex bar is adverising it while embracing ron desatan!

    asset (c3c3a3)

  250. Whembly,

    Years back, a charming rogue named Edwin Edwards faced off against KKK leader David Duke on the race for Louisiana governor. Edwards won on the slogan “Vote for the crook — it’s important.”

    Your voter base now think Trump’s now unapologetic fascism doesn’t outweigh insinuations of corruption against Biden for us independents. It doesn’t even outweigh actual corruption.

    Appalled (30eff9)

  251. @255, yeah Biden….due to the pressures of family or the stress of aging….allowed himself to look corrupt. The evidence of payoffs or influence peddling has not exactly emerged. Mud has been thrown. We rationalize it as all’s fair in politics, hence too our shaming him over his 7th grand child. I guess digging into family dysfunction is now a family value.

    Well, at least it distracts us for a moment from anything Trump is saying…or the mounting evidence in Jack Smith’s case. If the majority of the GOP can’t see Trump’s corruption, how the heck am I suppose to trust their judgment on accusations of other corruption? The fact that we are going down a path of trying to elect someone who could torch our legal system by ending the legitimate cases against him….is mind boggling.

    It’s sad that so many old people have fallen for this crap.

    AJ_Liberty (f93d93)

  252. — Make Donnie great again!
    — What’s in it for me?

    It’s the summer doldrums, fifteen months before the election, and the only ones who really care are Trump’s remoras.

    nk (4f1174)

  253. I was going to bookmark Appalled’s “independents were never taught what is actual fascism” comment for future reference but I think AJ’s love letter to poor, poor Biden is a much better keeper.

    “I was not a crook until I was tricked into looking like a crook” has a certain edginess.

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  254. @255

    Whembly,

    Years back, a charming rogue named Edwin Edwards faced off against KKK leader David Duke on the race for Louisiana governor. Edwards won on the slogan “Vote for the crook — it’s important.”

    Your voter base now think Trump’s now unapologetic fascism doesn’t outweigh insinuations of corruption against Biden for us independents. It doesn’t even outweigh actual corruption.

    Appalled (30eff9) — 8/1/2023 @ 6:36 am

    “unapologetic fascism”?

    You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
    https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/692/19789999.jpg

    whembly (5f7596)

  255. #259:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/07/trump-second-term-isolationist-fascism/674791/

    I know what the word means. You just don’t want to pay attention to the executive branch purges and takeovers he has in mind.

    Now Trump, being disorganized and lazy, probably does not pull off being Franco or Mussolini. But he sure would like to.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  256. AJ

    I am confident Joe Biden was made aware of how Hunter was using his name and that Joe and Hunter discussed it. Looks like at best the discussion took the form of a “how to loophole” seminar. It seems like the President is the victim here in your scenario “due to the pressures of family or the stress of aging….allowed himself to look corrupt”. Or Joe actually is corrupt and has been doing it for 40 years. We are talking about a person with 40 years in a place with a uniquely Washington DC American brand of corruption and a person who has never been known as a Romney-like straight arrow. Chances are far better that Joe looks corrupt because he is corrupt. When Joe bought real estate at sweetheart deal prices, do you think that was due to the pressures of family and/or aging? You know how you stop your son and brother from grifting off your name? Have your team put out the word that no matter what your family says, not only will you not exert any influence, it is far more likely you will be harsher on them to avoid the appearance of impropriety. Then demonstrate that to people who did not pay attention. These influence peddling deals were not on the level of Billy Carter making a deal for Billy Beer. There were some smart people involved in Ukraine, Chia who seemed to think they would be buying influence and had a 40 year resume of either strict adherence to standards and no influence, or a 40 year resume of coming through with the influence. After 40 years, word gets out on if the influence peddled is delivered or not

    Lets be honest here. Joe is not Trump. That is all. Trump is NYC brand corrupt, Joe clearly is well versed in Washington DC brand loop hole corruption and may be in even deeper. A pox on both

    steveg (1eb816)

  257. @256:

    It’s worse than that. We have such a failure in selecting leaders that no matter what happens, the Republic is teetering. We either opt for a lying venal blowhard who has no respect for the Rule of Law, or we choose Donald Trump. Either is a likely Destructor.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  258. Fascism is a Statist system that aligns government, labor and capital in the furtherance of the interests of a preferred set of citizens, and often features strongman rule, militarism, and a fairly arbitrary legal system. It can be of any Statist ideology. Castro’s Cuba was fascist.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  259. If GOP impeachment hearings clearly links influence/bribery to Joe Biden, I think indies would swing to Trump. If the hearing is trash, then I can certainly see indies be more sympathetic to Biden.

    whembly (c88dc4) — 7/31/2023 @ 7:31 pm

    That assumes Biden will be the Democratic nominee. I don’t think he will be.

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  260. That assumes Biden will be the Democratic nominee. I don’t think he will be.

    I think that Newsom will enter the race soon, expressing deep sorrow that the President seems unable to continue.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  261. And one last comment on Trump as Fascist, and where I pull this from. It’s a fellow named Robert Paxton, a professor emeritus of social science at Columbia University in New York. To be Rip for a moment, here is a pretty lengthy quote:

    Paxton also said that fascism is based more on feelings than philosophical ideas (which may explain why fascism can be hard to define). In “The Five Stages of Fascism,” he defined seven “mobilizing passions” for fascist regimes. They are:

    The primacy of the group. Supporting the group feels more important than maintaining individual rights.

    Believing that one’s group is a victim. This justifies any behavior against the group’s enemies.

    The belief that individualism and liberalism enable dangerous decadence and have a negative effect on the group.

    A strong sense of community or brotherhood.

    Individual self-esteem is tied to the perceived greatness of the group. Paxton called this an “enhanced sense of identity and belonging.”

    Extreme support of a “natural” leader, who is typically male. This results in one man taking on the role of national savior.

    Affinity for “the beauty of violence and of will, when they are devoted to the group’s success in a Darwinian struggle,” Paxton wrote. The idea of a naturally superior group or, especially in Hitler’s case, biological racism, fits into a fascist interpretation of Darwinism. Once in power, “fascist dictatorships suppressed individual liberties, imprisoned opponents, forbade strikes, authorized unlimited police power in the name of national unity and revival, and committed military aggression,” Paxton wrote.

    https://www.livescience.com/57622-fascism.html

    By the way, as in the Atlantic article I linked, I don’t believe Trump’s first term was fascist. The second term, if we end up with it, feels very fascist.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  262. Great comment, Appalled 266. Thank you.

    Biden is DC corrupt. There are hundreds of them. They push the envelope for personal gain but still think there are rules.

    Trump is NYC Mafia-style corrupt. All he cares about us personal gain and there are no rules that apply to him, especially in his second (third or fourth) terms.

    DRJ (2e4ac4)

  263. @260

    #259:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/07/trump-second-term-isolationist-fascism/674791/

    I know what the word means. You just don’t want to pay attention to the executive branch purges and takeovers he has in mind.

    Now Trump, being disorganized and lazy, probably does not pull off being Franco or Mussolini. But he sure would like to.

    Appalled (03f53c) — 8/1/2023 @ 8:46 am

    I don’t find that article persuasive… at all.

    I, however, do think a purge needs to happen when the next GOP POTUS is elected. The bureaucrats has gotten to complacent and probably too politically toxic to Republican leadership.

    I simply don’t believe Trump is capable of that.

    Hence why I’m on #TeamDeSantis.

    whembly (5f7596)

  264. I think that Newsom will enter the race soon, expressing deep sorrow that the President seems unable to continue.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/1/2023 @ 9:24 am

    Newsom won’t run against Biden. Biden will withdraw from the race due to “health concerns” just before the convention and Newsom will be drafted without needing to run in any primaries.

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  265. @269

    Newsom won’t run against Biden. Biden will withdraw from the race due to “health concerns” just before the convention and Newsom will be drafted without needing to run in any primaries.

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05) — 8/1/2023 @ 9:53 am

    I think this is how Newsom will jump in as well, and the fact that Biden isn’t super popular with the base, the base will accept Newsom.

    whembly (5f7596)

  266. Hence why I’m on #TeamDeSantis.

    LOL! Every time DeSantis opens his mouth his poll numbers fall.

    Ed Rollins Quits DeSantis: ‘Flawed Candidate’

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  267. I don’t know if I call it a “purge”, but the idea that political appointees should be limited to the very top positions ignores the discretion that lower-level managers actually have. When some Deputy Assistant can block a presidential order, knowing that civil service rules protected him from dismissal, we have a problem. Something needs to change.

    We probably shouldn’t return to the full-on spoils system of the 19th century, but elections should matter. Policy should be in the hands of the Executive, not in the hands of an unelected bureaucracy.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  268. I don’t know who the candidate will be, but it won’t be DeSantis. If Trump falls, another demagogue isn’t really much of a win.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  269. Fascists everywhere!!

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  270. @272

    I don’t know if I call it a “purge”, but the idea that political appointees should be limited to the very top positions ignores the discretion that lower-level managers actually have. When some Deputy Assistant can block a presidential order, knowing that civil service rules protected him from dismissal, we have a problem. Something needs to change.

    We probably shouldn’t return to the full-on spoils system of the 19th century, but elections should matter. Policy should be in the hands of the Executive, not in the hands of an unelected bureaucracy.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/1/2023 @ 9:58 am

    At this point, I’d advocate a near full-on spoils system, particularly any positions that can obstruct/block Presidential orders.

    whembly (5f7596)

  271. Sad!

    Former President Donald J. Trump’s political action committee, which began last year with $105 million, now has less than $4 million left in its account after paying tens of millions of dollars in legal fees for Mr. Trump and his associates.

    The dwindling cash reserves in Mr. Trump’s PAC, called Save America, have fallen to such levels that the group has made the highly unusual request of a $60 million refund of a donation it had previously sent to a pro-Trump super PAC. ………

    The super PAC, which is called Make America Great Again Inc., has already sent back $12.25 million to the group paying Mr. Trump’s legal bills, according to federal records — a sum nearly as large as the $13.1 million the super PAC raised from donors in the first half of 2023. ………
    …………
    Save America, Mr. Trump’s political action committee, is prohibited by law from directly spending money on his candidacy. When Save America donated $60 million last year to Mr. Trump’s super PAC — which is permitted to spend on his campaign — it effectively evaded that prohibition.
    ………….
    Super PACs can raise unlimited money, while regular PACs have strict $5,000 donation limits. Some campaign finance experts described the refunds as a backdoor effort by Save America to skirt that limit.

    The pro-Trump super PAC and Trump-controlled PAC must be independent entities and are barred from any coordination on strategy…………

    “So for the super PAC and the Trump PAC to be sending tens of millions dollars back and forth depending upon who needs the money more strongly suggests unlawful financial coordination,” said (said Adav Noti, a former lawyer for the Federal Election Commission’s litigation division, and) who is now the legal director of the Campaign Legal Center, a watchdog group that had filed a previous complaint about the $60 million transfer.
    ………..
    After all its spending and refunded money, Mr. Trump’s super PAC entered July with $30 million on hand. ……….
    ………….
    High-dollar fund-raising for the Trump super PAC has accelerated in recent weeks as the former president has added to his commanding polling lead over Mr. DeSantis, according to people familiar with the group’s finances. An official with Make America Great Again Inc., who was not authorized to discuss contributions not on the federal filing, said the super PAC had raised $15 million in July — more than it had raised in the first six months of the year combined.
    ##########

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  272. Every time Rip forces out an all-knowing super expert “LOL!” to someone else’s comments, all I can wonder is why he didn’t choose the handle “Skut Farkus.”

    This is what comes to mind.

    Probably just me and my thin skin…

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  273. Probably just me and my thin skin…

    BuDuh (580a1f) — 8/1/2023 @ 10:13 am

    To quote President Truman: If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.😜

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  274. Money, Money, Money

    ……………
    The super PACs supporting the 2024 GOP presidential candidates were required to file their mid-year reports to the FEC by midnight on Monday — offering a more in-depth look at the top financial backers of the White House hopefuls and a few hints about which groups may be well funded enough to help their candidates go the distance in the battle for the nomination.

    The super PAC supporting Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, Never Back Down, boasted nearly $97 million in cash on hand at the end of June to support its expansive field and advertising program as DeSantis tries to reboot his struggling campaign. The outside group has taken on many of the duties that would normally be shouldered by the campaign. ………

    A super PAC supporting Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina reported raising $19.3 million with about $15 million in cash on hand.

    The sums raised by the super PACs supporting lower-polling candidates like former vice president Mike Pence and former New Jersey governor Chris Christie were far lower, reflecting the difficulty they may face in the months ahead. The group backing Pence, Committed to America PAC, raised about $2.7 million and has about $1.8 million in cash on hand. The Tell It Like it Is super PAC supporting Christie raised more than $5.8 million and had about $5.5 million in cash on hand at the end of the period.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  275. Rip Murdock (ba2c05) — 8/1/2023 @ 10:26 am

    LOL!

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  276. Democrats don’t abandon flawed Presidents. Now Republicans don’t either. I think we have our nominees for 2024.

    DRJ (2e4ac4)

  277. #281

    Curious to see what happens to Harris.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  278. @281

    Democrats don’t abandon flawed Presidents. Now Republicans don’t either. I think we have our nominees for 2024.

    DRJ (2e4ac4) — 8/1/2023 @ 10:37 am

    🙁

    I’m fighting till the end…

    whembly (5f7596)

  279. BuDuh (580a1f) — 8/1/2023 @ 8:10 am

    “I was not a crook until I was tricked into looking like a crook” has a certain edginess.

    He wasn’t tricked into looking like a crook. Biden is ot that stupid. Although Biden might like to have his defenders claim he was tricked. (for he himself to say that would be to throw his son under the bus, and he’s clearly not doing that.. Anyway he says “Everything that my son did, he did because of a drug addiction, and I support his recovery, as every parent should, and I love him unconditionally, and he would you care to believe he didn’t do anything wrong?”

    The defense is:

    ” I was not an actual crook, and I talk to my children all the time, every day”

    The accusation then is:

    “That was plausible deniability”

    The rebuttal is:

    Hunter and others gave out the impression that Joe Biden was like the Chairman of the Board who doesn’t discuss mundane details, but they were lying to their interlocutors. Joe had no part in any of Hunter’s business dealings and he never got any money from them, and Hunter was selling influence that Joe couldn’t possibly deliver on even if he wanted to.

    Sammy Finkelman (ec1e35)

  280. I think we have our nominees for 2024.

    Then our system of government has failed.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  281. Here’s a website linking to the official government Suspicious Activities Records documents:
    https://marcopolousa.org/bidensars/

    It’s damning.

    You’re going to have to spin real hard to believe that Joe Biden has nothing to do with it.

    whembly (5f7596)

  282. I’m no fan of Biden….he’s been a blowhard and gaffe machine since he entered politics in the ’70’s. There’s a reason why he sputtered and flamed out in 1988, then was dwarfed in his 2008 presidential run. He is well past his prime now and there is a Weekend at Bernie’s feel to most of his appearances. You can almost hear the butt cheeks of staff clenching, waiting for the next weird “God the Queen” squeal to have to explain. His executive orders mandating private companies to require vaccinations and extending renter’s protections were blatantly unconstitutional….and he knew it. His administration’s planning of the Afghanistan withdrawal was remarkably inept, as was their anticipation of inflation. Though I give him points for getting some bipartisan legislation passed and the general handling of Ukraine, he has done little to nothing to improve the political climate….as difficult of an ask as that may be. His appointments are predictably liberal, especially with the Court, and his weak political standing has forced his hand to be more liberal than his moderate-Joe reputation. He doesn’t seem to have the energy or creativity to lead the country and foster compromise.

    That said, I think we’re lavishly smearing the father with the sins of the son. Has Biden enriched himself through his DC connections? Likely. He is a swamp creature but he’s not had some vast notable history of corruption….until now. Hunter is clearly a piece of work. Playing up the family name and muscling business associates are unseemly. He is certainly vulnerable to FARA actions. If Joe was not paying attention to his son’s actions, he should have been…and he should have acted to reduce the impression of corruption. Obviously the substance abuse and associated recklessness complicates the situation. A Vice President and now President can’t be compromised by his family and Joe let it happen. How deep is a question for investigators. What steveg “knows” confidently is…nothing….it just reflects his political bias and a 24/7 press by right-wing media to render conclusions without much evidence…ok, any evidence. Mystery informants and alleged $5M payoffs are accusations with little there there. They’re gold for whembly. Me, not so much.

    But again, much of this is just the distraction that is necessary when a party appears committed to nominating Trump. The faithful desperately need equivalence…and to change the subject. If Biden is corrupt and addled, then Trump’s Republican ends justifies the means and personality quirks. Felipe believes there’s nothing to worry about with Trump 2.0. Checks and balances will hold. J6 was a one-off…not indicative of an authoritarian bent. I don’t possess such faith. Someone who abides the Pillow Guys nuttery and retains and hides classified documents just BECAUSE doesn’t have the temperament for the office…whatever word one substitutes for “insurrection”.

    I think posters have it right above. Biden is a guy who’s been around too long….and that breeds an entitlement attitude. However, if the GOP doesn’t find actual payoffs, I’m not sure if it moves the needle much. The Ukraine charges don’t seem especially credible. Charges shouldn’t be ignored….but clean your own house too

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  283. His executive orders mandating private companies to require vaccinations and extending renter’s protections were blatantly unconstitutional….and he knew it.

    Fascism!!!!!!!!!

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  284. Hunter is clearly a piece of work. Playing up the family name and muscling business associates are unseemly. He is certainly vulnerable to FARA actions. If Joe was not paying attention to his son’s actions, he should have been…and he should have acted to reduce the impression of corruption

    What do you mean by “playing up the family name?” Was this the product Hunter was selling?

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  285. BuDuh,

    Why do you care what label the guy you don’t support in the primary gets?

    Appalled (61fb0a)

  286. ?

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  287. That said, I think we’re lavishly smearing the father with the sins of the son.

    OK, please tell me what Biden was doing “saying Hello” to many of Hunter’s business partners. After being in the Senate for 30+ years, he can’t be that naive.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  288. Is the testimony of Hunter’s business partner available? Or do we just have Comer’s summary?

    Appalled (5bbb97)

  289. You are stuck with hearsay from the lying liars from Liarsville, Appalled. Sorry, no “EVIDENCE!!!!” yet on Joe Biden’s involvement.

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  290. His executive orders mandating private companies to require vaccinations and extending renter’s protections were blatantly unconstitutional….and he knew it.

    Which were blocked by the courts. Every president has issued executive orders that they must know are of dubious legality, but when challenged and found to be contrary to either the law or Constitution they have not ignored the rulings.

    It would be a dangerous precedent to impeach someone for executive orders later found to be illegal.

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  291. Every time Rip forces out an all-knowing super expert “LOL!” to someone else’s comments………

    Actually it comes out pretty easy……..

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  292. Every president has issued executive orders that they must know are of dubious legality, but when challenged and found to be contrary to either the law or Constitution they have not ignored the rulings.

    Sooo…. not Fascism????

    But Trump!!!

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  293. Actually it comes out pretty easy

    Seems that way.

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  294. BuDuh (580a1f) — 8/1/2023 @ 12:36 pm

    Because some posters here say things that completely wrong or unreasonable that you just have to laugh. 😂

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  295. But Trump!!!

    BuDuh (580a1f) — 8/1/2023 @ 12:35 pm

    Did I mention Trump? Uhhhhh no.

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  296. Did I say you did?

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  297. Denying election results is worse than influence peddling.

    norcal (798182)

  298. Will you have a different opinion if “influence peddling” had a hand in the Ukrainian war and the related deaths of many?

    I am only asking a hypothetical.

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  299. Will you have a different opinion if “influence peddling” had a hand in the Ukrainian war and the related deaths of many?

    BuDuh (580a1f) — 8/1/2023 @ 12:54 pm

    Yes. If Hunter got Vlad on the phone, had his dad say “hello”, and then told Vlad to invade Ukraine, I would have a different opinion.

    norcal (798182)

  300. BuDuh (580a1f) — 8/1/2023 @ 12:43 pm

    Then your “But Trump” comment is a non-sequitor. LOL!

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  301. LOL!

    Rip, did you say anything about Fascism? You took the Trump portion as a reflection on what you said but not the Fascism portion right about it?

    What made you make that distinction?

    LOL! LOL!!

    With that hint, maybe you will figure out what was said.

    Maybe not…

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  302. Will you have a different opinion that denying election results is worse than “influence peddling”) if “influence peddling” had a hand in the Ukrainian war and the related deaths of many?

    BuDuh (580a1f) — 8/1/2023 @ 12:54 pm

    I would say election denialism is still worse than influence peddling. I sincerely doubt any influence peddling by Hunter Biden had an impact on Putin’s decision to invade Ukraine, or on NATO’s response.

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  303. Thank you for the response, norcal.

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  304. @302

    Denying election results is worse than influence peddling.

    norcal (798182) — 8/1/2023 @ 12:51 pm

    Objecting to elections is an age old traditional complaint in politics.

    Objectively, influence peddling, aka bribery, is one of the most heinous act a government officials could perpetuate.

    So, I reject your premise.

    whembly (5f7596)

  305. Buduh, How do you figure that Hunter’s influence peddling in UKE could have caused Russia go invade?

    Time123 (861763)

  306. I don’t figure that, Time.

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  307. “It would be a dangerous precedent to impeach someone for executive orders later found to be illegal.”

    I don’t think I suggested that. I agree that the Court can expedite review if the impacts are imminent. But like Trump’s initial Muslim ban, I don’t think either of Biden’s actions was even a close call. Biden’s also was a questionable use of his power. The emergence of more and more of these presidential decrees is a bad sign. We need to get back to Congress limiting the President’s urge to improperly use emergency powers. Trump used games with funding his wall too.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  308. BuDuh (580a1f) — 8/1/2023 @ 1:03 pm

    I took your “fascism!!!” comment as snark unworthy of a response. But if you want one:

    (F)ascism is a mass political movement that emphasizes extreme nationalism, militarism, and the supremacy of both the nation and the single, powerful leader over the individual citizen. This model of government stands in contrast to liberal democracies, which support individual rights, competitive elections, and political dissent.

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  309. We need to get back to Congress limiting the President’s urge to improperly use emergency powers.

    There are some who used to be here who did advocate impeaching Biden over his executive orders.

    EOs aren’t emergency powers, the are part of the President’s authority under the Constitution. Most are inconsequential, but where they go far afield is when Congress is deadlocked.

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  310. Thanks.

    LOL!

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  311. “Denying election results is worse than influence peddling.”

    “Objecting to elections is an age old traditional complaint in politics.”

    I think there is always a degree. I think if a candidate denies election results…resulting in a riot at the Capitol and the disruption of an official Congressional proceeding, then that means more than someone complaining “I was robbed” the day after an election. If three years later, having lost decisively in Court and having produced no persuasive evidence backing claims of fraud, a candidate continues to mislead a significant segment of his party’s voters, then that’s a big problem. Stacy Abrams is annoying, but few are calling the election system illegitimate based on her loss.

    Influence peddling should include evidence…not just idle speculation. Show me the money. Show me where Joe Biden pressured business or foreign entities. Continuing to say “of course he did it” fails persuasion 101. Hunter having advisory positions does not qualify as illegal. Some companies thinking they are getting “access” might not be getting much consideration. Show me the quid pro quo.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  312. Objecting to elections is an age old traditional complaint in politics.

    Does that tradition include to submitting fake election certifications to Congress?

    The Trump plan began with an effort to persuade Republican officials in the targeted states — Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin — to help draft, or to put their names on, documents that declared Mr. Trump to be the victor.
    ………….
    ………….(A)s Mr. Trump had been told by his campaign aides and eventually even his attorney general, there were no legitimate claims of fraud sufficient to change the outcome of the race, and the seven states all certified Mr. Biden’s Electoral College victory on Dec. 14, 2020. Mr. Trump and his allies barreled ahead with the electors plan nonetheless, with an increasing focus on using the ceremonial congressional certification process on Jan. 6 to derail the transfer of power.

    Ultimately, several dozen of Mr. Trump’s allies in the states signed false slates of electors, and most were unequivocal in their contention that Mr. Trump had won. ………

    Once the false pro-Trump slates had been created, Mr. Trump and his allies turned to the second part of the plan: strong-arming Mr. Pence into considering them during the joint session of Congress on Jan. 6. The point was to persuade Mr. Pence to say that the election was somehow flawed or in doubt.
    …………
    Some pro-Trump elector slates were filed with the National Archives. It is a federal crime to knowingly submit false statements or documentation to a federal agency for an undue end.
    …………

    Source

    Rip Murdock (ba2c05)

  313. Influence peddling should include evidence

    You previously said that Hunter was “Playing up the family name and muscling business associates.”

    Isn’t your evidence that same evidence used to determine influence peddling was Hunter’s business?

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  314. More on the new electoral traditions:

    …………
    Tuesday’s charges (brought by Michigan special prosecutor D.J. Hilson) against former state Rep. Daire Rendon (R) and former attorney general candidate Matthew DePerno (R) stem from a stand-alone probe into what happened to voting machines in Michigan. ………

    The round of charges is the second in Michigan targeting those who aggressively questioned the outcome of the 2020 election. Last month, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel (D) brought felony forgery charges against 16 Republicans who signed official-looking paperwork falsely claiming to be the state’s presidential electors even though Joe Biden had won the state.
    …………
    Four clerks in three Michigan counties turned over voting tabulators to third parties. They were taken to suburban Detroit, where a group of four men broke into the machines and performed “tests” on them, according to (Michigan Attorney General Dana) Nessel’s office. The group held onto the machines for weeks or months but returned them to clerks — in one case in a carpool parking lot — after the clerks grew apprehensive, documents show.
    ………….
    DePerno was charged with improper possession of a voting machine, conspiracy to unlawfully possess a voting machine, conspiracy to gain unauthorized access to a computer system and willfully damaging a voting machine, according to Hilson. Rendon was charged with conspiracy to unlawfully possess a voting machine and using false pretenses with the intent to defraud. Both were arraigned Tuesday and released, according to Hilson.
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (b0912e)

  315. Here comes the next indictment.

    UPDATE: Molly Gaston, a prosecutor detailed to the special counsel, handed up a single sealed indictment and received permission to issue a summons. No names or initials provided.

    If it’s Trump, he’ll bleat it out in a “truth” soon enough.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  316. Objecting to elections is an age old traditional complaint in politics.

    Objectively, influence peddling, aka bribery, is one of the most heinous act a government officials could perpetuate.

    Influence peddling and bribery is also an age old tradition. In the 16th century, legislators weren’t even paid and were expected to have “sponsors.”

    As far as election denialism, Aaron Burr probably holds the record.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  317. Trump indicted on four Jan 6 counts.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  318. @321 Right.

    But, ‘influence peddling and bribery’, when verified, may amount to breaking the law.

    However, you cannot break any laws by objecting to elections*.

    *I still say, Trump is more at legal risk over his ‘Stop the Steal’ fundraising and I’m a bit surprised that Democrats/Jack Smith doesn’t seem all that interested in chasing that down.

    whembly (e2380c)

  319. Indicted on four counts, similar to what was referenced in the target letter.
    There are six criminal co-conspirators.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  320. The indictment:

    1. Conspiracy to defraud the United States.

    2. Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding.

    3. Obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding.

    4. Conspiracy against rights [the right to vote].

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  321. They’re not named, but the co-conspirators are likely Sidney Powell, Giuliani, John Eastman and Jeffrey Clark, and unclear about the two others. It doesn’t sound like Mark Meadows is part of the Felonious Six, so he’s likely a cooperating witness.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  322. But Hunter!*

    * In case BuhDuh has this general spasm trademarked

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  323. That is a spasm you can have, AJ.

    In the meantime have you figured out what product Hunter was peddling?

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  324. Maybe this time they can hold him as a flight risk. Or at least for a psych eval.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  325. Oh goodie… here’s to Trump getting another boost in the polls.

    Geez louis…

    whembly (5f7596)

  326. What? No insurrection or sedition charges???

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  327. What? No insurrection or sedition charges???

    Cowards were afraid they’d be lynched.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  328. The judge in the case is the opposite of Aileen Cannon, and her name is Tanya Chutkan, an Obama appointee who was a real hardass on the J6 criminals. There’s an open slot for a trial this December, but the odds for a 2024 trial are better.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  329. There’s an open slot for a trial this December, but the odds for a 2024 trial are better.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/1/2023 @ 3:10 pm

    It depends on Fulton County.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  330. @333

    The judge in the case is the opposite of Aileen Cannon, and her name is Tanya Chutkan, an Obama appointee who was a real hardass on the J6 criminals. There’s an open slot for a trial this December, but the odds for a 2024 trial are better.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/1/2023 @ 3:10 pm

    I think the 4 indictments is largely bunk, but yup, if this judge wants a trial this December… there will be a trial in December.

    whembly (5f7596)

  331. @331

    What? No insurrection or sedition charges???

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/1/2023 @ 3:00 pm

    Those may still be added by superseding indictments.

    whembly (5f7596)

  332. There’s an open slot for a trial this December

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/1/2023 @ 3:10 pm

    All I want for Christmas

    norcal (798182)

  333. Cannon’s scheduling rulings have seemed appropriate given the complexity of those charges. I doubt the Jan 6 charges will be much less complex and expect this trial to get delayed as well.

    Time123 (3789d0)

  334. @338

    Cannon’s scheduling rulings have seemed appropriate given the complexity of those charges. I doubt the Jan 6 charges will be much less complex and expect this trial to get delayed as well.

    Time123 (3789d0) — 8/1/2023 @ 3:21 pm

    Yeah, Cannon’s ruling seems reasonable so far, as there’s a lot of technical/legal hurdle for even the defense to review. (ie, need clearance, reviewing video tapes, etc).

    With this J6 indictment, it doesn’t seem all that technical and a competent defense attorney (heh, maybe?) should be able to adequately defend Trump on this 4 charges.

    whembly (5f7596)

  335. Paragraph 2 of the indictment…

    2. Despite having lost, the Defendant was determined to remain in power. So for more than two months following election day on November 3, 2020, the Defendant spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won. These claims were false, and the Defendant knew that they were false. But the Defendant repeated and widely disseminated them anyway-to make his knowingly false claims appear legitimate, create an intense national atmosphere of mistrust and anger, and erode public faith in the administration of the election.

    That’s a little shocking to read, Smith calling Trump a liar in a legal document, but he went on to say that lying wasn’t the crime, it was the other stuff.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  336. @323 Whembly I’d be shocked if some
    Smart lawyers didn’t put in a wall of text on the donation forms
    That allow Trump to use the money as he likes.

    There’s very little incentive for the ppl who write laws to make it easy go prosecute misuse of campaign funds.

    Time123 (3789d0)

  337. This article by Andy McCarthy is insightful given current news:
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/07/trumps-imminent-january-6-indictment/


    It is reported that Trump is likely to face charges of corruptly obstructing a congressional proceeding (the January 6 counting of state-certified electoral votes, ratifying Biden’s victory), conspiring to defraud the government, and a related federal fraud scheme. As I elaborated on in the column cited above, the Supreme Court was emphatic in its Percoco and Ciminelli rulings that fraud in federal law essentially means financial fraud — schemes to obtain money or traditional forms of tangible property. When Congress tried to extend the concept of fraud to schemes to deprive the unwitting of “honest services,” the Court rightly found this term too vague; rather than hold the statute unconstitutional, the justices gave “honest services” a narrower construction: Only kickbacks and bribery — the commonly understood kinds of political corruption — are prohibited.

    The justices could not have been clearer in admonishing prosecutors not to get creative by attempting to criminalize patterns of deception that Congress has not clearly codified in penal statutes. I do not believe the charge of conspiracy to defraud the United States — a favorite go-to of aggressive prosecutors — can survive this admonition unless the government can prove a defendant was trying to bilk the government out of money or tangible assets.

    Nor do I think a charge of corruptly obstructing Congress can survive if the alleged corruption does not involve patently lawless behavior, such as evidence tampering, or threats to use force against witnesses or Congress itself. Since Trump has not been implicated criminally in the violence of the Capitol riot, Smith would almost certainly have to argue that the corruption lay in Trump’s (a) awareness that he lost the election and (b) reliance on John Eastman’s nonsensical legal theory that then–Vice President Mike Pence had authority to discount electoral votes. I’d be surprised if prosecutors can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump knew he’d lost the election (Trump may well believe his own BS), and I do not believe reliance on a frivolous legal theory would meet the standard of patently lawless behavior necessary to constitute corruption.

    He goes on to theorize that Jack Smith *may* have something regarding fundraising based on false premise:

    All that said, keep your eye on an episode that appears to have gotten a lot of Smith’s attention (and that got a good deal of attention from the Democrat-controlled House January 6 committee). It is said that the Trump campaign raised tens of millions of dollars on the representations that the money would go to a legal fund that would fight the election fraud by which Trump claimed the election was being stolen. Yet, at least according to the January 6 committee (see, e.g., final report at p. 770 & ff.), there was no such fund and at least some of the money was diverted to other purposes (such as, the New York Times reports, more than $200,000 spent at Trump hotel properties).

    If Smith can prove that, then he is in the ballpark of traditional fraud. To be sure, if he has decided to go down that road, the next Republican Justice Department is going to be spending a great deal of time scrutinizing what Democrats and their allied outfits such as Black Lives Matter actually do with the goo-gobs of money they raise for this or that stated cause. But if past is prologue, progressives and other anti-Trumpers do not concern themselves with the unintended consequences. What matters is nailing Trump — especially if you can get Republicans to nominate him in the process.

    whembly (5f7596)

  338. 2. Despite having lost, the Defendant was determined to remain in power. So for more than two months following election day on November 3, 2020, the Defendant spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won. These claims were false, and the Defendant knew that they were false.

    Hard to prove that he knew for a certainty they were false. But there’s the way he threw random accusations around, (whatever works) and then there’s his claim that “everyone knew” the election had been stolen, when assuredly everyone did not know that because his own people and even his family did not agree.

    But the Defendant repeated and widely disseminated them anyway-to make his knowingly false claims appear legitimate, create an intense national atmosphere of mistrust and anger, and erode public faith in the administration of the election.

    But is this a crime?

    Have any other political assertions anywhere ever before been put to such a test?

    Yes, Donald Trump created a lot of unnecessary and unjustified tumult. But that’s more grounds for impeachment rather than a criminal idictment.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  339. @341

    @323 Whembly I’d be shocked if some
    Smart lawyers didn’t put in a wall of text on the donation forms
    That allow Trump to use the money as he likes.

    There’s very little incentive for the ppl who write laws to make it easy go prosecute misuse of campaign funds.

    Time123 (3789d0) — 8/1/2023 @ 3:28 pm

    I suspect you’re correct there.

    My point, is that any of the J6 stuff is that Jack Smith is going to need to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that what Trump did fit the crimes he’s alleging.

    I don’t think you can get Trump on his odious behaviors in the runup of J6, as he assuredly didn’t meet the incitation threshold.

    Just as, I don’t think you can get Trump for pressuring Pence to erroneously reject the EV ballots either, as that law is rather thin.

    That’s why I go back to the “Stop the Steal” fundraising efforts. If anything, as McCarthy opined that I posted earlier, he may have something tangible.

    whembly (5f7596)

  340. Now, all bets are off if he treats this J6 case with the same distain and uninterest he had about that NY civil rape case.

    whembly (5f7596)

  341. > My point, is that any of the J6 stuff is that Jack Smith is going to need to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that what Trump did fit the crimes he’s alleging.

    In order to get to this he’s going to need people from the inside who testify as to conversations between Trump and co-conspirators or conversations between Trump and the people being pressured.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  342. At least Jack Smith did not indict Trump for his speech.

    1. Conspiracy to defraud the United States.

    Petitioning Congress is a right guaranteed by the First Amendment as a Trump lawyer stated on WABC radio this afternoon.

    Is a petition, and a larger cause, required to be honest – or else its (attempted) fraud?

    2. Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding.

    By Parliamentary tactics? By the way, this law was passed in 2002 with the idea of obstructing an investigation by the usual means but courts have upheld it can include physical interference.

    3. Obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding.

    He didn’t do that because he did not set that crowd to barge in and the proof of that is that he wanted to be there himself in person.

    4. Conspiracy against rights [the right to vote].

    Well, you could say that.(Actually it’s the right for votes to be counted honestly, but it’s the same thing).

    But it was always in the mode of claiming that his votes had been stolen and his voters who had been disenfrancised. He never blatantly asked anyone to violate the law.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  343. [T]he Defendant repeated and widely disseminated them anyway-to make his knowingly false claims appear legitimate, create an intense national atmosphere of mistrust and anger, and erode public faith in the administration of the election.

    Actually, that sounds like what James Comer and the concupiscent Marjorie Taylor-Greene are doing in regard to Hunter Biden.

    nk (c54ea7)

  344. We (yes, “we”) need to do more associate Trump with the MTGs, Gaetzes, Biggses, Gosars, etc., and lay their misdeeds on him instead of only trying to lay his misdeeds on them.

    nk (c54ea7)

  345. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/08/01/us/trump-indictment-jan-6

    27 minutes ago
    27 minutes ago
    Maggie Haberman

    So much of what Trump is accused of doing was reported in real time. That includes a statement he issued publicly on the evening of Jan. 5, 2021, trying to refute a report by Annie Karni and me that Pence had told him he lacked the authority to do what Trump wanted. That statement falsely claimed that Pence agreed with him.

    Pence did not go out of his way to make his position clear to Trump. He waited until the last possible moment.

    31 minutes ago
    31 minutes ago
    Adam Goldman

    The indictment asserts that Trump knew his allegations of election fraud were false. Prosecutors laid out a litany of people who countered his claims, including Vice President Mike Pence, who said he saw no evidence of “outcome-determinative fraud”; senior Justice Department officials, who said there was no evidence to support the claims; and senior White House lawyers, who told Trump the same thing. Among others were state legislators and the courts, which rejected every one of his lawsuits. The courts, prosecutors said, provided “real-time notice that his allegations were meritless.”

    This thing annoys me.

    Trump is not required to believe them or agree with them and this attempts to create an irrebuttable presumption. Is the majority opinion always right? I don’t like this. That’s a dangerous idea. I don;t like this at all.

    What this can go to prove is that Trump’s occasional claims that everybody knew the election was stolen from him were known by him to be false. You can also with this put his claims in the category of having a reckless disregard for the truth.

    As violence ensued, the defendant and co-conspirators exploited the disruption by redoubling efforts to levy false claims of election fraud and convince members of Congress to further delay the certification based on those claims,”

    No he didn’t. Trump merely did not want the Senators to drop their objections.

    He succeeded in having two debates (rather than the planned six) No new objections were made. In the end the proceedings were probably concluded a bit earlier than they otherwise would have been had there been no storming of the Capitol.

    Aug. 1, 2023, 6:15 p.m. ET45 minutes ago
    45 minutes ago
    Glenn Thrush

    The attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, “was fueled by lies” — Trump’s lies, Jack Smith says in his news conference.

    Very true.

    It would not have taken place without the lies, because without the lies there would have been no issue. But careful: It was a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  346. Paul 340,

    Showing that Trump made a false statement (lied) is a required element of proving intent to defraud the government under 18 USC Section 371, Conspiracy to Defraud the United States.

    DRJ (2e4ac4)

  347. It’s also a required element, i suspect, that he *knew* he was lying. Which is why the indictment talks a lot about how we know he knew.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  348. These are objective facts, Sammy. It doesn’t matter how you or Trump feel about election results if the election process was followed.

    DRJ (2e4ac4)

  349. But as aphrael said, the prosecution has to show Trump knew his statements were false, so how he felt about it is moot if the prosecution can show that. For example, reports indicate he told people he knew he had lost.

    DRJ (2e4ac4)

  350. 340.

    So for more than two months following election day on November 3, 2020, the Defendant spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won. These claims were false, and the Defendant knew that they were false. But the Defendant repeated and widely disseminated them anyway-to make his knowingly false claims appear legitimate, create an intense national atmosphere of mistrust and anger, and erode public faith in the administration of the election.

    I commented:

    But is this a crime?

    I see that Paul Montagu says that Jack Smith did not charge that as a crime (but only used it for context)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  351. I knew the original Joe Biden story on whether or not he ever spoke to Hunter about overseas business (on trips where they shared the same jet) was implausible and I know that the story has now evolved over the course of some time, parsing, to the point where Democrat Rep. Dan Goldman now agrees that Joe not only took calls from Hunter while Hunter was on business, Joe spoke with Hunter’s clients, ostensibly about the weather or about Beau’s cancer. So my instincts were good in that instance regardless to where I get my news; Joe was involved and he lied about it. You are correct that I cannot show you the crime or the money that went directly to Joe. (if I was looking into it, I’d see if the reason some taxes were not paid was because it was on the skim off the top before the hookers and blow got it all) We do have more and more evidence that Joe Biden as sitting VP travelled around the globe with his son, got on the speaker phone with his sons clients, assisting his son in his grift(and/or his own) at a time when Joe was much more mentally capable than today. If Joe had been honest about it before, I’d say drop it, but Joe obfuscated and obstructed over millions of dollars, and millions of dollars is worth looking into when people lie about the surrounding story

    steveg (5ab82e)

  352. DRJ (2e4ac4) — 8/1/2023 @ 4:07 pm

    These are objective facts, Sammy. It doesn’t matter how you or Trump feel about election results if the election process was followed.

    The accusations of fraud Trump made did not have the fell of reality. Now it is n objective fact whether massive fraud happened or not. But facts are not facts simply by virtue of the fact that a lot of people believe them. That is not in itself proof that Trump “knew” they were lies. It;s the wrong kind of proof.

    Now I think he didn’t believe what he was saying.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  353. It depends on Fulton County.

    Feds have big feet.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  354. steveg (5ab82e) — 8/1/2023 @ 4:16 pm

    if I was looking into it, I’d see if the reason some taxes were not paid was because it was on the skim off the top before the hookers and blow got it all)

    The taxes were supposed to be skimmed off the top, but they were not. I don’t think Joe Biden was a true partner. But Hunter and his confederates had every reason to pretend he was – it was Joe who was effectively supposed to be the person who was being bribed. But Joe could do nothing for most of them. Hunter’s scheming was a fraud.

    We do have more and more evidence that Joe Biden as sitting VP travelled around the globe with his son,

    In 2013 he had his son travel with him.

    got on the speaker phone with his sons clients,

    Devon Archer testified, to that.

    assisting his son in his grift

    Tis is the thing that is clear.

    (and/or his own)

    No, he had no reason to try to obtain money that way. Future book deals, speaking fees, and professorships were much better, safer ideas.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  355. Cannon’s scheduling rulings have seemed appropriate given the complexity of those charges.

    The lawyers can work nights and weekends like they do on TV.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  356. I really have a hard time understanding folks who think it’s a good idea for Trump to delay his convictions to late summer 2024, leaving the GOP with the choice of nominating a multiple felon about to serve life in prison, or trying to have a convention filled with suicide cultists pick someone else.

    Trial in December, conviction in January, prison by Washington’s birthday. What’s not to like?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  357. Jan 4, 2021:

    At Georgia rally, Pence says America will ‘hear the evidence’ of election fraud on Jan. 6

    Vice President Mike Pence said Monday that the case for widespread election fraud would be made to the American people when Congress meets this week to certify President-elect Joe Biden’s victory over President Trump.

    “We’ve all got our doubts about the last election. I share the concerns of millions of Americans about voting irregularities,” Pence said at an indoor congregation at Rock Springs Church in Milner, Ga., in support of Republican Sens. Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue in runoff elections there.

    Pence, who by law will be tasked with declaring a winner of the Electoral College vote, seemed to leave open the possibility that Trump could still remain in power for a second term.

    “Come this Wednesday,” he said, referring to the impending certification of election results, “we’ll have our day in Congress. We’ll hear the evidence.”

    https://news.yahoo.com/at-georgia-rally-pence-says-america-will-hear-the-evidence-of-election-fraud-on-jan-6-193148658.html

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  358. DRJ (2e4ac4) — 8/1/2023 @ 4:11 pm

    For example, reports indicate he told people he knew he had lost.

    he is reported to have told someone upon seeing Biden speaking on television: “I can’t believe I lost to this person” which she took to mean he did believe it, but couldn’t understand how , which is a reasonable interpretation.

    Anyway the lying about the election is not in itself a crime – it is just used to show that he had corrupt intent in intending to reverse the results through the use of alternate electors etc.

    My objection is to the kind of “proof” that Trump knew what he was saying he was wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  359. Pence also knew that was wrong, ==- he was hoping Trump would back down.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  360. Trump may be hoping to be acquitted and to argue that the American peole deemed him innocent.

    There’s always a self-pardon.

    Except Trump won’t be elected.

    He may dispute the 2024 election as well.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  361. Then stupid ol’ Trump threw an insurrection right when Pence asked Congress to listen to the evidence. Talk about poor planning. The Perry Mason reveal was thrown on the cutting room floor as Congress beat feet to the bunker to never talk about Pence’s Jan 4th promise ever again.

    Just terrible timing for an overthrow of Congress…

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  362. The charges today seem to election fraud because he didn’t believe it or conspiracy to deprive people of the right to vote I don’t know.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  363. On Tuesday’s broadcast of the Fox News Channel’s “Special Report,” Fox News Contributor and George Washington University Law Professor Jonathan Turley Special Counsel Jack Smith’s indictment of 2024 Republican presidential candidate former President Donald Trump “basically just accuses him of disinformation. This is a disinformation indictment” and charges “many” things that are protected by the First Amendment.

    Turley said, “There’s less than meets the eye in this indictment. I thought the last indictment was a very serious threat for Donald Trump. When I take a red pen through material that is protected by the First Amendment, it reduces much of this to a haiku. Many of the things that the prosecutor is charging here [are] protected speech.”

    https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2023/08/01/turley-disinformation-indictment-is-charging-trump-for-free-speech/

    LOL!

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  364. @366, Buduh, you leaning back into the lie that the outcome of the election was determined by fraud? I thought you gave that up after the cyber-clowns failed to find evidence of fraud?

    Time123 (cff9ce)

  365. I need a decoder ring for #367

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  366. Indictment

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  367. Pence was burping Baby Donnie. When they should have been trying to get Loeffler and Perdue re-elected, the whole Georgia runoff was all about Baby Donnie’s tummy-ache instead.

    nk (c54ea7)

  368. Showing that Trump made a false statement (lied) is a required element of proving intent to defraud the government under 18 USC Section 371, Conspiracy to Defraud the United States.

    True, DRJ. I was trying to say that just lying is not illegal. Smith used the term “knowingly” 36 times in the indictment, that he committed conspiracy and fraud knowing that his claims were lies, and Smith gave multiple examples of the “knowing” part.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  369. In order to get to this he’s going to need people from the inside who testify as to conversations between Trump and co-conspirators or conversations between Trump and the people being pressured.

    He clearly has that. And some of those as-yet-indicted co-conspirators are going to flip. Charges could still come with respect to the J6 attack, which right now is left at “just happened.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  370. The Brave Sir Robin Pence, saying this today and not on January 7th 2021…

    “Today’s indictment serves as an important reminder: anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be President of the United States…Our country is more important than one man. Our Constitution is more important than any one man’s career.”

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  371. I have a post about the indictment. It’s at the top of the site. (It links the indictment but doesn’t say anything about it yet. But it’s the most appropriate place to comment.)

    Patterico (ebec04)

  372. Time123 (cff9ce) — 8/1/2023 @ 4:47 pm

    Start here.

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  373. Sammy
    Greed often overcomes reason.

    steveg (5ab82e)

  374. Former President indicted over J6….Fox News has copious Hunter Biden coverage. And we wonder….

    AJ_Liberty (11f29a)

  375. You must have missed watching Fox News, AJ.

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  376. Here are their headlines, AJ:

    https://www.foxnews.com/

    As well, The internet is full of clips of Bret Baier covering the indictment.

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  377. So I didn’t turn on Jesse Watters and watch 15 minutes of Hunter Biden speculation? It’s the former President and leading candidate for the nomination with four felony counts of interfering with the election. Shouldn’t most of the show be about that…or did I miss some new explosive revelation about Hunter?

    AJ_Liberty (11f29a)

  378. “15 minutes of Hunter Biden speculation” = “ copious Hunter Biden coverage.”

    And we wonder…

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  379. Did you know that domesticated sheep do not shed their wool?

    They need to be shorn otherwise it will grow and grow, winter after winter, until they smother under it.

    Mr. Former President Donald Trump, who calls himself Boricua in Puerto Rico, is a good shepherd.

    He shears his sheep.

    nk (c54ea7)

  380. I turned back over to Fox…..after the obligatory My Pillow commercial, what was Hannity talking about in his final segment?
    Is he talking about first amendment angles to the indictment?
    Is he talking about whether the trial can happen before the election? Nahh, we get Victor Davis Hansen and a big banner at the bottom proclaiming …it’s a two-tiered justice system….and what about’s about Stacey Abrams, Joe Biden, and Hunter Biden and the “very serious bribery scandal”. Yada-yada-yada. Fox is a joke.

    AJ_Liberty (11f29a)

  381. Hannity is a news show.

    LOL!

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  382. How many Republicans are watching it? It’s a news channel….with a historic news event. And they’re pushing a narrative. It’s why the right is so sadly informed and still pushing for a thrice indicted grifter.

    AJ_Liberty (11f29a)

  383. Soo… you missed Trump’s lawyer talking about how they plan on exploiting discovery and other technical components of their defense? Where the lawyer was directly questioned about Trump’s motives? That was on Fox News.

    Fox had a split screen where the other half of the screen was a bunch of bozos desecrating the Capitol on Jan 6th.(the stuff that isn’t charged in the indictment.)

    Do you really think you see the narrative?

    BuDuh (580a1f)

  384. There’s a Hunter segment practically every hour on FoxNews. For years. The editorial coverage choices they make is apparent, and it’s to distract from Trump’s multiple felonies and wrongdoing.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  385. lol.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  386. @389, exactly….the narrative found in DeSantis’, Ramaswamy’s, Scott’s, and the usual GOP lawyers is two-tiered justice system and weaponization of the DoJ….by the corrupt Biden crime family.

    Guttfeld….another Pillow Guy commercial….he must be getting a great rate….and mainly selling pillows to Republicans. I wonder if he sells one with Trump’s face on it. That aside, no preemption of Guttfeld….AI sex robots and their favorite animal story. No Hunter while I watched. Tuned back at the top of the hour for more hard news….and found a solid defense case of Trump. Two guests both skeptical of the indictment…and more weaponization of the DoJ.

    I’ve yet to see a former prosecutor…or lawyer…on any other station that is saying that this is not a thorough a persuasive indictment. Not one. Now there are pundits saying that this will not move the GOP vote because it’s just more of the same. The same people who would not watch the J6 hearings will put this in the same outhouse.

    What’s remarkable in the end is that the 2nd impeachment couldn’t happen because it was done too quick and he was about to leave office anyways…..senators claimed that he coudl be charged as a private citizen if need be. I guess the GOP says no need….shame

    AJ_Liberty (11f29a)

  387. Not one of the GOP presidential candidates can figure out how to run against a guy who was or will be on trial for:
    (a) sexual assault
    (b) paying a porn star hush money
    (c) violating the Espionage Act
    (d) obstruction of justice
    (e) conspiracy to overturn the results of an election by bullying his VP into violating the 12th Amendment of the Constitution
    (f) orchestrating an electoral fraud scheme
    (g) obstructing a Constitutional proceeding

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  388. Semi h/t Michael Steele

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  389. Just a reminder that Ashley Biden’s diary contained contempory information that Joe Biden molested her.

    That’s the guy so many have bent over backward to defend.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  390. Nobody believes that, NJRob. Even Project Veritas who bought the alleged diary from the Florida jailbirds admitted that it could not be authenticated.

    nk (c54ea7)

  391. Fitch doesn’t think we have had a very responsible government for the last 20 years:

    Erosion of Governance: In Fitch’s view, there has been a steady deterioration in standards of governance over the last 20 years, including on fiscal and debt matters, notwithstanding the June bipartisan agreement to suspend the debt limit until January 2025. The repeated debt-limit political standoffs and last-minute resolutions have eroded confidence in fiscal management. In addition, the government lacks a medium-term fiscal framework, unlike most peers, and has a complex budgeting process. These factors, along with several economic shocks as well as tax cuts and new spending initiatives, have contributed to successive debt increases over the last decade. Additionally, there has been only limited progress in tackling medium-term challenges related to rising social security and Medicare costs due to an aging population.

    And so they lowered our credit rating, from AAA to AA+.

    I have no opinion on the rating itself, but I have to agree with their criticism, which applies to both parties, but especially to the Loser, and his followers.

    Jim Miller (e7232e)

  392. Try again nk.

    I brought it up because Project Veritas just released an audio call with Ashley Biden where she threatened them with the Secret Service if they didn’t return her items.

    NJRob (b066df)

  393. What? No insurrection or sedition charges???

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/1/2023 @ 3:00 pm

    And no accustions of creating false evidence, by Donald Trump or anybody else, although some very poor quality fake evidence happened.

    It was all false arguments including mathematical “proof” and supposed inconsistencies with other elections.

    Sammy Finkelman (c1e168)

  394. Yesterday Sean Hannity was still at it, claiming that Joe Biden caused the firing of a Ukrainian a prosecutor within six hours.

    True, Joe Biden made it sound that way but he made the whole story up I think.

    Sammy Finkelman (c1e168)

  395. . And some of those as-yet-indicted co-conspirators are going to flip. Charges could still come with respect to the J6 attack, which right now is left at “just happened.”

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/1/2023 @ 5:03 pm

    What’s there to flip about?

    There are very few factual disputes, although the indictment does get some facts wrong (the storming ofthe Capitol did not cause a further delay of the certification)

    Sammy Finkelman (c1e168)

  396. Yes, Biden lies, too, and frequently. Nevertheless, his squirt gun of lies doesn’t compare to Trump’s multiple water cannons of lies.
    This isn’t a defense of Biden, it’s what is. The GOP should clean its own house, which should be the higher priority.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  397. Paul,

    you can attack Trump wothput trying to minimize the child molester’s actions.

    NJRob (b066df)

  398. you can attack Trump wothput trying to minimize the child molester’s actions.

    Clean your own house, Rob.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  399. The only one I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears (ok, it was on television) express a desire to “date” his daughter is Trump.

    Here are some facts about the Ashley diary. Note that even the Trump campaign refused to touch it. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/25/us/politics/ashley-biden-diary-project-veritas-guilty.html

    nk (c54ea7)

  400. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb_D9d6xQOI&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fhotair.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo

    Ashley Biden on tape asking for it back.

    Continue avoiding the truth nk. Support someone other than the child molester.

    NJRob (c1f0cf)

  401. @401

    Yes, Biden lies, too, and frequently. Nevertheless, his squirt gun of lies doesn’t compare to Trump’s multiple water cannons of lies.
    This isn’t a defense of Biden, it’s what is. The GOP should clean its own house, which should be the higher priority.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/2/2023 @ 7:05 am

    Yes, the GOP shouldn’t nominate Trump. You must do better, pick up your pom-poms and advocate for DeSantis or some other candidate that can win.

    But, nearly every goddamned word out of Biden’s mouth is a lie.

    You’d be hard pressed to find a factual statement coming out of his mouth.

    Did you know that Biden claimed we cured cancer?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/26/biden-administration-claims-cure-cancer-us-mental-health/

    whembly (5f7596)

  402. NJ Rob

    Ashley Biden wants her stuff back in the audio, but unless she specifically asked for her diary wherein on page 52 she notes her dad is a creep (whose money she is dependent on, that he grifts from his son), none of these guys are going to care. I will agree that her demeanor when asked specifically about the diary seems to point very very strongly to the diary being hers. If I did not keep a diary, and someone asked me about a diary in my things that got left behind, I’d say “that is odd, I don’t use one, but it probably belongs to someone else in our party, so please send that as well” but she pivots to a threat, identifies herself as Ashley Biden and says that is her stuff after being specifically asked about the diary, so she most likely owns it and additionally owns the description of her dad within. In my mind, there was always a tacit admission the diary along with all the other stuff was hers because they claimed “stolen” which is a lot different than “not mine”.

    I don’t think it would be any more prudent to leave young girls alone with Joe than it was to send boys to overnight at Neverland. Maybe we should ask for a show of hands aye or nay. I also think comparisons with Trumps crude statements about Ivanka and “dating her” if she was not his daughter eventually fall apart because 1. We haven’t seen her diary. 2. Trump seems to have been trying (and failing badly) to compliment Ivanka, not trying to get into her shower

    steveg (596202)

  403. Trump is a loathsome creature and his lying is part of that.
    Biden is his own form of loathsome creature and his lying is also part of that.

    Biden is a greedy bastard who showed up in his daughters shower
    Trump may or may not be a greedier bastard, but as far as we know managed to stay out his daughters showers

    There are a substantial group of people (who can’t vote) that would now consider punching Joe Biden to be driven by an overriding moral imperative.

    steveg (596202)

  404. whembly (5f7596) — 8/2/2023 @ 7:56 am

    But, nearly every goddamned word out of Biden’s mouth is a lie.

    Interesting stories, maybe”including that was instrumental, through his vice-presidential superpowers, in the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor. The beta version had a flabbergasted U.S. ambassador to Ukraine – the 2018 version hada cancelled or about to be cancelled press conference

    Sammy Finkelman (c1e168)

  405. “Come here, big tits.”

    Disbarment and electoral fraud aren’t the only things Giuliani has to worry about. Gah.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  406. Well said steveg.

    The extra damning part is where she said she showered late at night so her dad wouldn’t drop in on her.

    NJRob (7e154a)

  407. This is late in the week but I wanted to share the transcript to Archers testimony. I gave it a quick read and it doesn’t seem to show what’s been claimed about Joe Biden’s involvement.

    https://oversight.house.gov/release/comer-releases-devon-archers-transcribed-interview-transcript%ef%bf%bc/

    Time123 (cb74e3)

  408. I wanted to share the transcript to Archers testimony. I gave it a quick read and it doesn’t seem to show what’s been claimed about Joe Biden’s involvement.

    Shocking!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  409. On the other thread there is a conversation about “the big guy,” as reflected in the transcript, Time.

    BuDuh (681e00)

  410. @412

    This is late in the week but I wanted to share the transcript to Archers testimony. I gave it a quick read and it doesn’t seem to show what’s been claimed about Joe Biden’s involvement.

    https://oversight.house.gov/release/comer-releases-devon-archers-transcribed-interview-transcript%ef%bf%bc/

    Time123 (cb74e3) — 8/3/2023 @ 10:56 am

    It’s the ACCESS to the VP is the deliverable buddy.

    It’s “hey, look who I can get on the phone with you guys” demonstration, that allows Hunter/Archer to convince his business associates to consummate an agreement.

    Archer probably wouldn’t be privy to any private Hunter-to-VP calls whereby Hunter could give his dad any info his business associates wanted to be communicated.

    This is, at a minimum, blatant FARA violations.

    whembly (5f7596)

  411. Does working for a foreign company such a Burisma require registering as a foreign agent? Legitimately don’t know the nuances

    Time123 (cb74e3)

  412. @416

    Does working for a foreign company such a Burisma require registering as a foreign agent? Legitimately don’t know the nuances

    Time123 (cb74e3) — 8/3/2023 @ 1:17 pm

    Yes. Especially if he’s petitioning to US Governance (aka, his VP dad) on behalf of Burisma.

    whembly (5f7596)

  413. Does working for a foreign company such a Burisma require registering as a foreign agent? Legitimately don’t know the nuances

    Time123 (cb74e3) — 8/3/2023 @ 1:17 pm

    Anyone who represents a “foreign principal” must register as a foreign agent, but merely working for a foreign company doesn’t necessarily require registration. It depends on their activities:

    ……..FARA requires the registration of, and disclosures by, an “agent of a foreign principal” who, either directly or through another person, within the United States (1) engages in “political activities” on behalf of a foreign principal; (2) acts as a foreign principal’s public relations counsel, publicity agent, information-service employee, or political consultant; (3) solicits, collects, disburses, or dispenses contributions, loans, money, or other things of value for or in the interest of a foreign principal; or (4) represents the interests of the foreign principal before any agency or official of the U.S. government. In addition, FARA requires agents to conspicuously label “informational materials” transmitted in the United States for or in the interest of a foreign principal……
    ………

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  414. Does working for a foreign company such a Burisma require registering as a foreign agent? Legitimately don’t know the nuances

    Time123 (cb74e3) — 8/3/2023 @ 1:17 pm

    No, I think registering as a foreign agent only applies, if the person who is required to register is paid to ? personally (personal contact, not supervising others) lobby members of Congress (or staff I suppose) or members of the Executive ranch. by a foreign government

    It does not apply to courts, although in most cases who they represent would be known.

    I am oot sure of all of this. What DOJ says [https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara/frequently-asked-questions#:~:text=FARA%20mandates%20that%20you%20must,a%20foreign%20principal%20before%20registering.] may be different than the practical application.

    It might be foreign principal and it might include any attempt to affect policies.. They also have to disclose what they did and how much they got.

    There have historically been very few prosecutions. Most of the time when a failure to register is noticed, it is allowed to be corrected.

    The law was passed in 1940, (correction, 1938) when there was concern about Nazi and Soviet attempts to influence the federal government. It was probably designed to be constitutional and less tough than some people wanted.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)


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