To See Who the GOP Front-Runner Is, Don’t Watch the Polls
Don’t watch the money.
Don’t listen to the Big Media pundits.
Just watch the behavior of the grifters like Mark Levin:
Mark Levin kicked off his interview of Trump tonight with the kind of tough question that I have been waiting for all year. Now THIS is journalism. pic.twitter.com/1AGxDsjdi3
— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) May 28, 2023
If Mark Levin stops performing sex acts on Donald Trump that would get you arrested in Mississippi, you’ll know Ron DeSantis has a chance.
Until then, it’s a one-man race, and Donnie from Queens is running away with it.
It’s a cliche by now to note that it’s a cult, but it’s a cult.
Anyone who would favor Donald Trump in this primary has no business voting, much less opining in public. Such people are civic disasters.
Patterico (a59378) — 5/29/2023 @ 12:03 pmAnyone who doesn’t know Trumps virtues should watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-GAw1lLWJA&t=2s
Jake (5fc31a) — 5/29/2023 @ 12:29 pmThanks for the laugh, Jake
Patterico (a59378) — 5/29/2023 @ 12:56 pmAnyone who doesn’t know it’s a cult should watch that video.
Patterico (a59378) — 5/29/2023 @ 12:58 pmMy God, the Claremont Institute has become such a joke.
Patterico (a59378) — 5/29/2023 @ 12:58 pmYou haven’t watched it. That’s because you’re in an echo chamber.
Jake (5fc31a) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:00 pmPatterico, thank you for this. I cannot explain why people are able to vote for the man.
Simon Jester (37f06e) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:03 pmThank God we have you here to bring us the Real Facts about how Trump’s virtuous toughness is the only thing that will save America
Patterico (a59378) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:04 pmMaybe they vote for him because of his accomplishments during his Presidency. Which are many.
Biden is by far the worst president ever
Jake (5fc31a) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:05 pmPatterico, the tone of that video is little different from Levin’s. I’m gobsmacked.
Simon Jester (37f06e) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:05 pmJake, you and the Claremont Institute and this high priest of the cult are the problem. The fatuous propaganda you have linked could only be convincing to someone already a member of the cult.
Patterico (a59378) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:06 pmI do understand the concept of Candidate A being so horrible that Candidate B is the only option. Truly I do.
But if one is not very very careful, it becomes a situation where truly awful people are a good alternative.
This is why I hope to see proper opposition to Biden, including from Team D.
Simon Jester (37f06e) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:07 pmJake, Trump could have been the best president this country ever had (he wasn’t), and he would still be unfit for office because he lost the election and tried to steal it. To any rational person, that is disqualifying. It’s not to you, of course, because let me guess: you think the election was stolen from him. You think he won. I have never heard your opinion on this, but by virtue of your having linked this garbage video, I know it to be true. And that’s how I know you are the problem. Trump lost, but he tried to stay in anyway. Supporting someone like that, which you do, is civic illiteracy and is totally indefensible.
Patterico (a59378) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:08 pmAgain: what do each of us believe in, regarding a candidate? Will we stand by those beliefs?
It seems to me that so many of us have bought into “the other guy/gal is so awful that nothing my guy/gal does matters.”
Simon Jester (37f06e) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:09 pmSo do I. If I didn’t, I never could have brought myself to vote for Joe Biden.
Patterico (a59378) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:09 pmPatterico #13: exactly my point, but far better expressed.
And it was DJT’s choice.
Simon Jester (37f06e) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:10 pmBiden’s pretty bad. But he did not try to steal an election. Trump did. That’s really all I need to know as between the two of them.
Patterico (a59378) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:11 pmPatterico, this is what I mean. We all need to have our central ethos.
I could not vote for DJT under any circumstances, because of how I felt about his personal life and the way he conducts himself.
For me, I could not vote for Biden, because I truly do not like that man over many decades, but right how, I think having him in office is elder abuse.
So I voted Libertarian both times.
Sure, some people will call me names. But I have my ethos.
Simon Jester (37f06e) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:15 pmJake, did Donald Trump lose the 2020 election?
Patterico (a59378) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:21 pmIn uganda if mark levin did this he would go to prison for the rest of his life!
asset (ee5c8b) — 5/29/2023 @ 2:12 pm@18 I voted green party both times even in 2020 I had to write the green party candidate in thanks to republican shenanigans to keep the libertarian party off the ballot that the democrat party used to kick the green party off of the ballot.
asset (ee5c8b) — 5/29/2023 @ 2:15 pmMark Levin should take to heart Frank Zappa’s famous admonition that nobody looks good in brown lipstick.
JVW (abd137) — 5/29/2023 @ 2:33 pmThank you for that, JVW.
Simon Jester (37f06e) — 5/29/2023 @ 2:43 pmI actually wonder what’s running through Trump’s head as Levin goes on and on with the flattery. Is he thinking, what a sucker? Does he wonder if Levin believes this nonsense? Does Trump believe this nonsense? Is he thinking that he needs to make darn sure he gets his cut of whatever Levin is peddling? Is he going to make Lindsay Graham watch this so he can flatter his properly next time he speaks of the Donald?
The only thing I can say about Levin — did he listen to Lord Haw Haw and practice? Or did all of this flow naturally from his crabbed little soul?
Appalled (e9dcf2) — 5/29/2023 @ 3:57 pmI’d guess Trump is thinking, “this guy understands me and how great I am”. Of course Trump not only believes the nonsense, to Trump it is a brilliant reflection of reality. I had a neighbor, good guy but delusional in an important way. He was selling his 3 year old used truck for more $$$ than the current exact model. When I asked why his price for the used truck was more than the well thought of brand new truck, he told me “this is the best truck I have owned”. Aside from the obvious question of why sell the best truck you’ve ever owned at 40,000 miles, I realized something I’d already had inklings of… he was sorta narcissistic and felt that everything he touched was automatically superior and increased in value because of him.
steveg (d45e45) — 5/29/2023 @ 4:12 pmNot true. Trump looks at Levin and thinks that is a great look, the exact way everyone one around him should look mid-conversation
steveg (d45e45) — 5/29/2023 @ 4:15 pmMark Levin is a gold digger. Trump’s cult is where the money is.
And Trump, himself, is good to his gold diggers as long as they flatter tell him that they love him.
nk (7aa282) — 5/29/2023 @ 4:17 pmOn that same subject, Trump is the most likely to pick up the prostitution gap gauntlet that Putin threw down when he said that Russian prostitutes are the best in the world.
Biden has certainly not shown any interest in that area except, possibly, by agreeing to McCarthy’s demand for a work requirement for food stamps as part of the debt ceiling deal.
nk (7aa282) — 5/29/2023 @ 4:24 pm@27. as long as they flatter *him and* tell him that they love him.
nk (7aa282) — 5/29/2023 @ 4:27 pmThe Biden administration is a relatively normal Democratic administration. Biden is too old to maintain the energy required of a President and someone else should run, but that administration is within the normal range and would be even if Biden dropped dead tomorrow and Harris was sworn in (She might be a lightweight, but I’m starting to think that might not be a bad thing in some cases). Trump, OTOH is crazypants and tries to surround himself with crazypants people (through luck or grace he mostly failed last time, but I wouldn’t count on that happening again).
Nic (896fdf) — 5/29/2023 @ 4:31 pmTrump and “virtues”…ha!
Oxford defines “virtue” as “behavior showing high moral standards”. I’m just not seeing it.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/29/2023 @ 4:49 pmMark Levin is a journalist in the same manner as RT does journalism. What’s funny is that there are people out there nodding furiously along with him and praising Levin for having the courage to speak the truth.
Now, isn’t it fair to give credit to Trump in some arenas? Well, first I would give credit to the Trump administration and the brave and tireless souls who kept Trump from acting too rashly and in cases corruptly. Certainly, I prefer Republican governance. The question is did the good justify the bad?
I liked getting 3 conservative justices, and the host of appellate judges screened by the Federalist Society. I liked that corporate taxes got cut, though the scope and breadth of the cut package we can debate. I like that we got tougher on illegal immigrants, though without comprehensive legislation, the problem persists. Walls became obstructions and fences, and Mexico didn’t pay for an inch. The economics is the economics and Trump did little to change the draw. I like that regulations were reduced and that energy exploration was encouraged. I liked that Title IX was returned to rational administration. I liked pushback on BLM violence, though the “both sides” comments in Virginia were unfortunate and tone deaf. I liked confronting the Chinese on trade though it tended to be reckless and the tariff war quickly became a stalemate. NAFTA became “great” with a 3% tweak. OK, now pull my finger.
But any good produced by the Trump administration has to be put side by side with the bad….and horrific. The assessments of those that served in his administration are shocking. This is not someone who should be anywhere near the reins of power. He’s unhinged, petty, and not detailed oriented. He listens to horribly disturbed people like the Pillow Guy and Sidney Powell. Going through all of the horribleness is just too painful and too redundant. We all know the list, culminating with the shocking abdication of duty on January 6th and the associated felonies he at minimum flirted with.
Patterico is exactly right. The 50% of GOPers lining up for more reminds me of Kevin Bacon saying “thank you sir, may I have another?” in Animal House. No, just no. We don’t need someone who will kneecap NATO at any moment….sell out our allies like in Syria and Afghanistan….pretends tariffs are paid by the other country…wanted to ban all Muslims, even allies, from entering the country….thinks walls are the key to immigration control…wants to pardon the J6ers….and who believes stars are privileged when it comes to sexual assault. Unqualified. He should be a non-starter. Shame on Levin.
AJ_Liberty (7d9e7f) — 5/29/2023 @ 6:32 pmDoes everybody remember 2016 republican primary when levin was getting hot flashes for ted cruz until the night of the indiana primary when trump smashed lying ted to the ground and mark levin had a nervous breakdown on the radio. He saw what happened to the wisconsin conservative talk show host who crossed trump and his supporters so had a trump conversion on the road to damascus to save his career. Mark wanted the money not his soul.
asset (1d6562) — 5/29/2023 @ 11:57 pmHe’s unhinged, petty, and not detailed oriented. He listens to horribly disturbed people like the Pillow Guy and Sidney Powell. Going through all of the horribleness is just too painful and too redundant.
felipe (70468a) — 5/30/2023 @ 4:47 amGahhh! I seem unable to remember to close the quote function. My kingdom for a preview!
felipe (70468a) — 5/30/2023 @ 4:49 amEven the world’s most charismatic smile is easily sundered by a single flake of lettuce adhered to one tooth!
felipe (70468a) — 5/30/2023 @ 4:52 amWell put, Patterico. Any “virtue” Trump might claim is totally undone by his attempted coup. People who believe that the election was stolen are in the same camp with flat earthers, and bring a completely new dimension to the idea of “cult.”
Roger (412072) — 5/30/2023 @ 5:16 am1. Do you believe that private morality impacts public morality? Can someone be a serial philanderer and business cheat but then be honest and trustworthy when it comes to matters of the state and election? Does integrity and character matter? Is the Access Hollywood tape inert bragadocia or does it convey deeper attitudes about how women should be treated?
2. How many years to Trump promote Birtherism and how many people followed his lead? Is it acceptable to malign reputations in the service of politics?
3. Was it acceptable to attack women like Megyn Kelly and Carly Fiorina in sexist and demeaning ways to blunt political criticisms?
4. Are most Mexican illegal immigrants rapists and murderers? Was his comment about “sh*th*le” countries appropriate?
5. Was John McCain “not a war hero” because he got captured?
6. Was Judge Curiel “unfit” to rule on a Trump Univ case because he was “Mexican” despite being an American citizen born in Indiana?
7. Was it acceptable to advocate violence against hecklers at his political events?
8. Was it proper for him to spread false accusations about his political opponents?
9. Was it proper to enact his first Muslim ban via Executive Order that was later found unconstitutional?
10. Was it proper to pressure his FBI director for loyalty?
11. Was it proper to praise authoritarian regimes like North Korea for their efficiency? Is his weird bromance with Putin proper for a US President? Should the Chinese be applauded for their viciousness at Tiananmen Square? Should our libel laws be changed to protect Trump?
12. Should he have supported Roy Moore in the face of credible sexual misconduct accusations?
13. Was the forced separation policy at the border humane?
14. Is it wise to pull us militarily out of NATO, S. Korea, and Africa?
15. Is it proper that the President sided with Putin over his own intelligence committee regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election?
16. Was it proper to fire Jeff Sessions for recusing himself from the Russian interference investigation?
17. Was it “fine” to abandon our Kurdish allies in Syria forcing the resignation of James Mattis?
18. Should we be OK with Trump’s efforts to obstruct the Mueller investigation, including his attempts to solicit a false affidavit?
19. Should we be ok with his attempts to condition Ukraine military aid on Ukraine launching an investigation of his political rival’s family?
20. Should he have invited the Taliban to Camp David?
21. Was the firing of LtCol Vindman righteous?
22. Was his touting of the antimalarial drugs hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine as treatments for COVID-19, despite the lack of high-quality evidence, proper? Were his offhand comments about the virus generally a good idea? Were his personal attacks on Fauci warranted when he could have ordered his replacement or promoted his own spokesperson?
23. Was his attack on mail-in voting proper despite his own record and that of his cabinet of voting that way?
24. Was his election denialism proper based on the best evidence out and the opinions of his closer supporters and cabinet members?
25. January 6th plotting and lack of response to the rioting….
Can we rationalize this and the constant lying because he’s good on some policy? I don’t think so.
AJ_Liberty (4ae521) — 5/30/2023 @ 6:30 amThe most recent Fox poll provides an answer. On any number of personal qualities (not corrupt, trustworthiness, empathy) Biden leads Trump. The only exception is “strong leader” where Trump leads Biden 51-33 percent.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/30/2023 @ 9:34 amHe is though, just like Trump, pretty guilty of election denialism.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/06/12/biden-gore-george-w-bush-2000-election/2414933/
SaveFarris (67f554) — 5/30/2023 @ 10:19 amI still prefer to look at polls so I don’t need to watch political p0rn videos like Levin’s:
Crosstabs.
From the Poll:
Who would you like to see as the Republican nominee for President in 2024?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/30/2023 @ 10:21 amI appreciate the passion in your questions. But nothing in them resulted in the death of innocents such as, say, abortion. Even those Presidential decisions, such as Taliban invited to Camp David, meeting with kim Jung Un, pandering to Putin, etc., as unsavory as it was, these are legitimate actions whose wisdom and correctness is best left to history.
We do know that NK stopped testing nukes, that the indiscriminate killing by terrorists slowed down considerably after Trump’s bullying. We know that moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem did not cause a war. Nor did it prevent the Abraham Accords from being signed, as well as Kosovo* wanting a similar accord with their enemies. Much of the terrified and wild predictions of Trump causing another world war was proven wrong.
Our allies started to pull their own weight, after Trump’s bullying. Trump was roundly ridiculed by the rest of the world for the warnings he offered which proved correct, such as Germany’s over dependence on Russian gas. Much of the opposition was earned not by Trump’s message, but by his delivery, his oafishness and lack of tact. He was not a polished statesman, but rather, an ugly American businessman; crude in both thought and speech.
Trump is a liar, yes. Did his lies to the world’s leaders serve the U.S.? Well, there were no wars, for one thing. There is a great value to that for the entire world. Who cares if Trump was universally disrespected?
Trump’s sins are G*d’s to judge, not mine. Biden’s sins are God’s to judge, not mine. Roe V. wade was constitutional until it wasn’t, but abortion is murder none the less. If you want to judge Trump, I suggest you place the saved lives of the unborn into his balancejust as it will be placed into the balance of each SCJ, Senator, and Representative who had some share in the eventual Dobbs decision. I’d say that Jan 6 and all the rest pales to just that one victory.
felipe (70468a) — 5/30/2023 @ 12:41 pmI guess Trump was right.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/30/2023 @ 1:15 pmfelipe, I think you over-credit Trump for the reversal of Roe. Yes, he had the cajones to nominate Amy Coney Barrett under circumstances quite similar to when Merrick Garland was rejected, but it’s not like Trump brought any specialization to the choice. He went with what the Federalist Society recommended and other conservatives supported. Would a President Cruz, Perry, Walker, or Jindal done anything different? It’s hard to believe so. Kasich might have went with a moderate for the sake of comity which would have likely pulled the decision in the direction of Roberts. Long-term, we’ll see what provides the most stability.
Also, abortion is not illegal. In fact, most abortions happen within the 1st trimester and so most are still occurring. The decision is left to the states and is shaped by the opinion of the majority. It was the right decision to reverse but we’ve seen some GOP overreach on appropriate limits and the inevitable pushback at the ballot box. There’s only so much that the law can do. I hope the GOP next focuses on support that might reduce the desire for abortion — more carrot, less stick.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/30/2023 @ 2:29 pm“Trump’s sins are G*d’s to judge, not mine.”
Did you have that same view of Bill Clinton? Character is destiny. There’s enough shady that Trump has done in his public dealings that should be concerning…but it all comes from one’s personal ethics. It’s much easier to cheat in politics after having cheated in business dealings and having cheated in your personal relationships. The notion that someone just compartmentalizes seems wishful. If it’s always about winning and people’s perception of you, then doing the right thing is not second nature. Trump has always cheated and lied and we are now ok with it.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/30/2023 @ 2:38 pmAre the “sins” Trump’s personal foibles only, or do they cover potential criminal sins?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/30/2023 @ 2:41 pm@44 trump got to be president the others would not have attracted bernie bros. in michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin. So meaningless comment about others. Why do people vote for trump? He hates the same people they hate. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I don’t hate trump except for putting little children in cages so I am pretty unbiased toward trump. The insurrection stuff makes me a little more off putting.
asset (58d270) — 5/30/2023 @ 4:56 pmI have always been of the opinion that the overturning of Roe would come in time; that Trump was simply in the right place and at the right time can be argued, but I doubt that any other person would have done/endured what Trump needed to do/endure to clear the path – what you charmingly refer to as “cajones.” I am too close to the events to be of any use as an historian. But, Of course you are right, and I agree with all of these points. I am a generous man, and so are you.
“Also, abortion is not illegal.” That this is true is simply the failure of fallen man to protect the innocent. Abortion is always, and everywhere, the murder of an innocent human being at the most vulnerable stage of life.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 4:22 amI have the same view of everyone. But all may criticize/correct error.
Oh, please. Always? and we are ok? Hyperbole doesn’t persuade me.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 4:29 amIt is more than a dish of potage, but still far less than what our inheritance is worth. There are any number of cesspools where abortion is illegal but are no fit place for a child to be born in. Overturning Roe v. Wade is scant compensation for destroying America.
nk (b152ca) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:16 am“Oh, please. Always? and we are ok? Hyperbole doesn’t persuade me.”
felipe, do you support Trump for the GOP nomination? Will you vote for him to be President?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:15 amNo, I do not support Trump for the nomination. I support Tim Scott. I already said so right after KevinM’s comment in support of Scott. If Trump is the nominee, then yes, I will vote for Trump because I already stated that I would vote for whoever received the GOP Presidential nomination. I comment so seldom that I am unsurprised my comments went almost unnoticed. I’m glad you asked, thank you.
felipe (5e2a04) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:35 amOther signs of the apoc…that Trump is the 2024 frontrunner:
https://www.ajc.com/politics/politics-blog/georgia-gop-convention-mike-pence-out-kari-lake-in/IOEPGVEYUBCEDHBTWBZM4OFPHM/
Appalled (279bfe) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:36 amnk (b152ca) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:16 am
“The Lord is my inheritance.”
You have a wonderful way with words! But America (whose America?) is hardly destroyed, and nothing man-made lasts forever (pyramids notwithstanding, but those are alien, right?), but “he who saves a single life, saves the world.” so yes, we would get the better part of the trade if this latest cesspool, even if it is better than all the others, gets destroyed – Sodom and Gomorrah and all that.
Play the looong game, my brother.
felipe (5e2a04) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:43 amFor those who may not be well versed in Holy Scripture, my “The Lord is my inheritance” signaled my deep appreciation and agreement with nk’s “what our inheritance is worth.”
nk rocks!
felipe (5e2a04) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:50 am“If Trump is the nominee, then yes, I will vote for Trump because I already stated that I would vote for whoever received the GOP Presidential nomination.”
If I’m reading you correct, as long as the GOP remains firmly anti-abortion, there is no character flaw that is too great to sway your support? Do you worry that the good men who provided guardrails to some of Trump’s excesses in his first term will no longer be in place? People saw how Sessions, Mattis, Bolton, Tillerson, McMaster, Comey, and Cohn were treated. Does it concern you that a person pledging “retribution”, who plays fast and loose with institutional checks and norms and who does not need to be re-elected might be a threat? Does it concern you when Trump questions our involvement in NATO and our support of Ukraine as it fights to preserve all its lives? What would it take for you not to support Trump?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:53 amWhat a crazy read!
If Trump becomes pro-abortion after being nominated, I vote for Tim Scott as a write-in. Simple as that. I am not a Republican, and I owe that party no allegiance, but I favor their policies over the Democrats who have lost their policy minds, in my opinion. This is the world in which I live (for now).
None of Trump’s lies concern me; the results of his admin are what concern me. I did not vote for Trump in 2016, but I predicted correctly, that if he did win, a) he would be vilified as much as his Repub predecessors were, and b) his own people, as well as “the deep state” would serve to moderate his every move, thus practically keeping him in check. This happened.
That Trump fired those who moderated him came as no surprise to me. What President wouldn’t? A second Presidency of Trump, if it ever comes, will be moderated, even more so, since his will be a lame duck admin. This has been the way with all other Presidents. Will he receive any exception?
Because of this reality, I an unafraid of the dire consequences Trump Presidency. In fact, overwrought fears may play into Trump’s hand. So anyone who is overwrought about Trump might do well to consider that.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 9:38 am“his own people, as well as “the deep state” would serve to moderate his every move, thus practically keeping him in check. This happened…..A second Presidency of Trump, if it ever comes, will be moderated, even more so, since his will be a lame duck admin.”
Is January 6th an example of that successful moderation?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/31/2023 @ 10:36 amThat one confuses me, felipe. In his one term, he was “moderated” by the people he appointed (who were presumably recommended by the counsel of his moderating advisors), but he was also moderated because he wanted to get reelected. In other words, he constrained by the fear that The People would reject his quest for a 2nd term, so he couldn’t cancel the NATO treaty or do other alarming things, like hang out with the Taliban at Camp David.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/31/2023 @ 11:39 amNow that Trump only has a single term available, and because he’s already run through a gamut of credentialed appointees who will not likely come back to work for him, where’s the “moderated”? You saw who he appointed after Election Day. Remember Jeffrey Clark?
Is he does improbably win, is he not going to choose loyalty/devotion over competence? Is he not going to have an inner circle whose main qualifications are that they’re all in? Remember Mark Meadows? Stephen Miller? Steve Bannon? Who is going to caution him away from his baser, more grandular reactions?
@56 First and foremost, I think I’m evolving to be that anti-Communist/Democrat voter.
I don’t really label myself as a “Republican” per se, but I am registered as one so that I can vote in the closed primaries.
My criteria is literally, the not-Democrat.
It amazes me, that there’s so much emphasis that our voters put on the person rather that what polices are advocated.
AJ, I’ll jump in here as your questions intrigues me…
I’m in this camp. I’ll take Trump’s character flaws as tradeoff to advocate for anti-abortion positions.
We are, talking about lives here.
No. These people will always come back, as the Whitehouse has an undeniable clarion call, regardless who sits behind the Resolute Desk™.
Yup. But, that’s why Congress and Courts exists in the first place. It’s how our system of governance is designed. Have more faith in it.
Of course. But, keep in mind, Trump really didn’t do much other than sabre rattle NATO countries to pay their fair share, and give aids to Ukraine, more than what the previous POTUS ever did. He can be convinced/cajoled on a lot of things.
For Democrats to stop nominating leftist/progressive monsters.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/31/2023 @ 11:53 amAnd if Trump decides he wants a third term, will you be on board then? Because he will.
DRJ (fd3827) — 5/31/2023 @ 12:27 pm@61
Don’t be silly. Of course not.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/31/2023 @ 12:38 pmYes, I think this is part of DeSantis’ strength:
whembly (d116f3) — 5/31/2023 @ 12:39 pmhttps://www.nationalreview.com/2023/05/the-catharsis-candidacy/
“These people will always come back, as the Whitehouse has an undeniable clarion call, regardless who sits behind the Resolute Desk™”
How could you be certain? I mean, you don’t imagine Pence running as his VP again, do you? Mattis would never come back after Trump turned his back on the Kurdish allies, forcing a very public resignation letter. Rex Tillerson called Trump an expletive-laced moron. I doubt Gary Cohn would want to come back after Trump ignored him regarding tariffs. A point that made Cohn not sure if he could even support Trump for re-election. Betsy Devos resigned post J6 and said Trump crossed a line in the sand. How could she back track. Trump called Sessions “mentally retarded”, “Mr Magoo”, and an “idiot” to his face. How in good conscious would he serve under that. The same with Elaine Chao who he called “Coco Chow” or Mitch’s “China-loving wife”. Trump had taken to imitating McMaster behind his back by puffing up his chest and barking in a “fake shout like a boot camp drill sergeant.” People qualified for these positions read about this and talk to one another. Why would highly-qualified successful people want to demean themselves and then be thrown under the bus?
This is the pragmatic problem with Trump. There’s no unknown about him anymore. Everyone knows that loyalty is expected but not returned…and frankly that Trump can be unhinged. It’s back bencher yes-men from here on out.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/31/2023 @ 12:43 pmComedy gold!
Trump two months ago:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/31/2023 @ 12:46 pm“These people will always come back, as the Whitehouse has an undeniable clarion call, regardless who sits behind the Resolute Desk™”
How could you be certain? I mean, you don’t imagine Pence running as his VP again, do you? Mattis would never come back after Trump turned his back on the Kurdish allies, forcing a very public resignation letter. Rex Tillerson called Trump an expletive-laced mor*n. I doubt Gary Cohn would want to come back after Trump ignored him regarding tariffs. A point that made Cohn not sure if he could even support Trump for re-election. Betsy Devos resigned post J6 and said Trump crossed a line in the sand. How could she back track. Trump called Sessions “mentally ret*rded”, “Mr Magoo”, and an “idi*t” to his face. How in good conscious would he serve under that. The same with Elaine Chao who he called “Coco Chow” or Mitch’s “China-loving wife”. Trump had taken to imitating McMaster behind his back by puffing up his chest and barking in a “fake shout like a boot camp drill sergeant.” People qualified for these positions read about this and talk to one another. Why would highly-qualified successful people want to demean themselves and then be thrown under the bus?
This is the pragmatic problem with Trump. There’s no unknown about him anymore. Everyone knows that loyalty is expected but not returned…and frankly that Trump can be unhinged. It’s back bencher yes-men from here on out.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/31/2023 @ 12:51 pm@65
Because there’s a lot of other people who wants those jobs.
Many of the those jobs are great “stepping stones” for their career no matter who’s in the Whitehouse.
Look.
I’m not voting for Trump in the primary.
I’m going after the most electable non-Trump candidate who can beat Trump.
If it’s DeSantis… great.
If it’s Tim Scott… great.
If it’s Haley… great.
Just about any of the non-Trump primary candidates can be Biden, imo, and it’s up to them to beat Trump.
But, in the general? F the democrats, I’m voting for the GOP candidate.
You don’t like Trump? Get behind someone who can beat him in the primary and can win in the General. Right now? That looks like DeSantis. I hope you’re willing to work towards that goal, if you’re sincere in not wanting another Trump v. Biden election.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/31/2023 @ 12:59 pm“I’ll take Trump’s character flaws as tradeoff to advocate for anti-abortion positions.”
Character is destiny. We saw it with J6. Justices are (sadly) important, but no-compromise issues like abortion shouldn’t chain us to Machiavellian villains. The issue should sort itself out at the local level as conservatives have long wanted. I still can’t grasp Trump’s persistent praise for a thug like Putin and can’t trust that he wouldn’t throw Ukraine under the bus. How about that as a “life” issue?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/31/2023 @ 1:01 pm@67
The “life” issue is voting between someone like Biden who’s on record on willing to vote for a nation-wide up-to-birth abortion vs Trump who does have a pro-life record.
Not apologetic one bit that I’d choose Trump over Biden.
Not sorry.
Again, I don’t want Trump to win the primary. All efforts should be to solidify behind a not-Trump GOP candidate in the various state’s primary/caucus.
Let’s get busy ya’ll. We have work to do.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/31/2023 @ 1:11 pmwhembly (d116f3) — 5/31/2023 @ 12:59 pm
The first thing is that your vote (or the votes of others who vote like you) shouldn’t be discounted.
There may be no way to cast an effective vote for somebody else in the primaries.
And it really matters if there can be an anti-Trump coalition or not.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/31/2023 @ 1:58 pmSometimes you can cast a vote to keep a non-Trump candidate in the race.
In 2016, that was Marco Rubio in Florida(he lost and droppedout) John Kasich in Ohio (he won but he was a bad candidate) and ted Cruz in Wisconsin(where he won even though he wasn’t really liked), Indiana (where he lost and dropped out after Donald Trump linked him, with the help of the National Enquirer, to the JFK assassination, using a picture that was supposed to be of his father, although that wasn’t really the reason he lost it was a one-day story because Ted Cruz dropped out after the results of the Indianan primary were in, although he toyed with trying to get the nomination at the convention) and Utah(where he was truly hated, but not Trump)
You should vote for a candidate able and willing to soldier on after losing some primaries. Like Marco Rubio should have done in 2016.
Before a vote is cast candidates go up and down and back up in the polls (see McCain and Obama in 2007-8) but once they begin counting votes and delegates they don’t do that.
You should vote for the exceptions (provided they are not just fringe candidates)
But maybe there will be third party candidates.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/31/2023 @ 2:10 pmSince Roe was overturned a waffling one at best.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/31/2023 @ 2:42 pmAlong with Haley and Scott.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/31/2023 @ 2:43 pmIf the primary isn’t close I’ll vote for the GOP candidate I like the most.
Time123 (6a3c4e) — 5/31/2023 @ 3:08 pmIf the primary /is/ close I’ll vote for whoever is most likely to beat Trump.
In the general I’ll probably vote for the GOP candidate. But I’ll vote for Biden if it’s Trump and probably will leave it blank if it’s Desantis because of his anti-free speech and anti-gay actions.
It isn’t silly at all. He already tried a couple. The second try will be even easier for him.
DRJ (fd3827) — 5/31/2023 @ 4:41 pmA coup.
DRJ (fd3827) — 5/31/2023 @ 4:41 pmMore Lilliputians:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/31/2023 @ 5:57 pmIs January 6th an example of that successful moderation?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/31/2023 @ 10:36 am
lol! Pence told Trump to pound sand, right? Biden became POTUS on schedule, right? So, yes, absolutely.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:07 pmPaul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/31/2023 @ 11:39 am
You have such an imagination, Paul! AJ correctly observed that I give to much credit to Trump, so allow me to make the same observation; You give Trump too much power. Do not let your fears govern you.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:11 pm“Pence told Trump to pound sand, right?”
Will Kari Lake?
AJ_Liberty (d44287) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:28 pmI don’t believe Whembly thinks the possibility of your scenario is silly, just the assumption that Whembly would even remotely be on board. There is no way anyone on this site would be on board. Not even Happyfeet.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:31 pmWhen the only American president in our history to attempt a coup is running again, and otherwise sane, decent people like you intend to vote for him if he’s nominated, how much fear is the right amount?
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:32 pmAJ_Liberty (d44287) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:28 pm
Can we wait for Kari to be VP? But I’ll say yes, in a similar situation she’ll tell him to pound sand. Fret no more.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:36 pmlurker (cd7cd4) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:32 pm
I saw Jan6 live, just like everyone else. I didn’t see an attempted coup. But let me answer your question; zero. A person should governed by zero fear.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:41 pm“The “life” issue is voting between someone like Biden who’s on record on willing to vote for a nation-wide up-to-birth abortion vs Trump who does have a pro-life record.”
Abortion is likely completely transactional for Trump. If it benefits him personally to modify his position, he will. His playboy lifestyle, including affairs with porn stars, doesn’t exactly suggest someone who would have sweated unplanned pregnancies. His late life “conversion” was transactional. There’s no way he would have won as a Republican staying pro-choice.
But the bigger point is that there is no magic legislative antidote regarding abortion. At some point it comes back to changing hearts. The polling on having some period of time to procure a legal abortion is stubbornly above 60%. Maybe not in Utah or Alabama, but it’s a good indicator in the swing states. The question is now with the states. It makes good politics for the GOP to win the middle by seeking reasonable cutoff bans. Over-reaching will just cost the GOP and lose the important justice-confirming Senate. Pushing a national ban against popular opinion is foolish politics and will lead to losing the prize.
AJ_Liberty (d44287) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:58 pm“But I’ll say yes, in a similar situation she’ll tell him to pound sand. Fret no more.”
On what basis? You’re starting to sound naive. There was very little in the way of a 5-alarm Constitutional crisis on J6. Few knew for certain that Pence wouldn’t buckle. But the big question is why play with fire at all? Trump does not respect constitutional limits. This should make him unqualified. You keep pretending that there’s no reason to fret. I see nothing that you’ve written for me to trust your prediction. I see everything in Trump’s actions and language to reasonably fear his intent. This is NOT King David.
AJ_Liberty (d44287) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:08 pmThat’s like saying, “Just because I keep sending boys to John Wayne Gacy’s house doesn’t mean I’m on board with all the torturing and killing.” When you intend a cause, you’re morally on board with the foreseeable result. The next Jan6 is a foreseeable result of millions of people, but fewer than vote for his opponent, voting for Trump.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:14 pmAJ_Liberty (d44287) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:58 pm
That is a great comment AJ!
I completely agree with this. I accept Trump’s transactional pragmatism over Biden’s (a Catholic) true-believer pro-choice position. I mentioned earlier that should Trump become pro-abortion, I, and hopefully, every other pro-life voter will drop him instantly. But given the pro-life advances during and after (Dobbs) Trump’s Presidency, I doubt such a flip will occur – but hey, we’ll see.
The pro-life march, which is held every year around the anniversary of Roe, was never visited, much less addressed, by any President until Trump visited and addressed us. This Was big. Who cares if it was merely transactional? It showed that Trump had the political spine that every other President lacked both Dem and Repub. If that was transactional for Trump, well, all I can say is “more of that, please.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:23 pmTo be clear, felipe, I don’t believe you want another Jan6, or violence of any kind for that matter. But believing you can vote for Trump and not enable his predictably reprehensible behavior is, to employ a somewhat less inflammatory simile, like believing you can safely drive when you’re drunk. The belief may be sincere, but it’s irrational, and the judge ain’t gonna buy it.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:24 pmLOL! I’m sure you weren’t serious.
Given the fact she’s still trying to overturn the 2022 Arizona gubernatorial election and now is attacking the 2020 election, the last thing Kari Lake would do is dissuade Trump from challenging a negative election result.
Rip Murdock (8ed0a2) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:32 pmTrump already thinks a 6 week ban is “too harsh.”
Rip Murdock (8ed0a2) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:35 pm“more of that, please”
I’m sorry but you have to make progress with that +60% in the country who don’t want abortion banned. The polling is not wrong. I think instead of obsessing about the most harsh law….and lose. It would seem smarter to focus on making it easier for women to choose life. That takes hard work and money. That might require having more liberal adoption laws. It might require some perverse incentives financially. Sometimes it’s wise to try more carrot, less stick.
AJ_Liberty (d44287) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:50 pmlurker (cd7cd4) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:14 pm
No, lurker, it isn’t. What an absurd simile.
—
AJ_Liberty (d44287) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:08 pm
On the flip of a coin, AJ. I gave your question the seriousness it deserved.
“You’re starting to sound naive.”
No, I flipped a coin.
” Few knew for certain that Pence wouldn’t buckle.”
Pence didn’t buckle, were you traumatized? You seem to be dwelling on events that have already played out.
“Trump does not respect constitutional limits. This should make him unqualified. You keep pretending that there’s no reason to fret. I see nothing that you’ve written for me to trust your prediction. I see everything in Trump’s actions and language to reasonably fear his intent. This is NOT King David.”
Good grief, AJ. Every President tries to push the envelope of what they can do. Trump is no different. “This should make him unqualified.” No it shouldn’t. The Executive branch is co-equal with the Judicial and the Legislative branches. You have too little appreciation for what is required at that level.
I am glad that you require much more than I offer to you for you to give your assent. But I am not surprised because you have already surrendered your assent elswhere, and assent is difficult change.
I think your imagination has had its way with you if you are so sure you know Trump’s intent and where it must lead not only you, but the entire nation.
I am sure that only you think that this is King David, because you have to say “This is not King David.”
What a contrast between the well-reasoned AJ_Liberty (d44287) — 5/31/2023 @ 6:58 pm
And the wild AJ_Liberty (d44287) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:08 pm
What happened?
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:59 pmAs a pro-choice American, I’d vote for a pro-life pro-democracy person above a pro-choice wanna-be dictator every time. I don’t know that the same can be said of many pro-life people and Trump doesn’t make me feel any more confident in that.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:00 pmAJ_Liberty (d44287) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:50 pm
I think you are arguing with someone else, not with me, if you think I subscribe to any of the positions you describe.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:02 pmThank you for engaging with me, AJ. You mad some fine comments that I enjoyed reading. Forgive me if I couldn’t take some of your comments as seriously as you wished. I genuinely have no fear of Trump destroying this country, no more fear than I have of Biden destroying this country. The Constitution has too many checks and balances. Have some faith in the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, not me.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:14 pmIt’s not about my emotions, felipe, it’s that Trump already tried to take too much power, and he did it in a way that violated the Constitution he swore to uphold. Not only that, he threatened to terminate the Constitution and, more recently, the 14th Amendment. This soon-to-be federal criminal is not a person the GOP should nominate or who the American people should vote for in a general election.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:24 pmlurker (cd7cd4) — 5/31/2023 @ 7:24 pm
Thank you for taking another stab at you simile, lurker! May I offer one for you?
It is like thousands of bartenders assessing a man’s sobriety before serving him.”
If that man gets arrested for DUI especially if he has a carload of passengers who are sober, the bartenders are not held responsible, but the man and there will be questions for the passengers. After all, no one person has the power to elect Trump.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:25 pmGoodness gracious! What terrible grammar and spelling; I’m off to bed. Goodnight.
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:27 pmPaul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:24 pm
I respect your opinion, Paul. Can you bring yourself to respect mine?
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:28 pmOk, no more tonight!
felipe (70468a) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:29 pmIt was obviously hyperbolic, but the reasoning, which I’ll repeat if you like, was apt. And then I gave you a tamer simile so the details of the first one wouldn’t be a distraction. There was nothing absurd about the second one, but you didn’t engage that either. Why not give it a shot?
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:36 pmSorry, felipe, I didn’t refresh the page before answering your first reply, so I didn’t see your second one. Unfortunately I can’t make sense of it, but thank you for trying.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/31/2023 @ 8:39 pmDon’t worry, Trump will “be in a position to make a really great deal, and a deal that people want.”
Rip Murdock (8ed0a2) — 5/31/2023 @ 9:06 pmOK, felipe, I’m not sure, but I think I may understand what you’re getting at. Of course, being an impossible hypothetical, it’s hard to comment on. In the real world we’re served by one bartender at a time, each of whom is responsible for assessing the sobriety of the person in front of him. But imagining a universe in which thousands of bartenders could collectively serve a single customer, if each of them knew or should have known the customer was as recklessly drunk as we know Trump is, I’d say they would share moral (I’d have to think about legal) culpability for the foreseeable consequences of making him drunker without taking his car keys.
I know you’ve gone to bed, so good night. If you’re interested in continuing this, I’ll check in tomorrow.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/31/2023 @ 9:16 pmCan a person disagree with a person and still respect the person and his point of view? To me, the answer is yes.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/31/2023 @ 9:54 pmAre you comfortable with a person who is so willing to jettison the Constitution to advance his political agenda?
“jettison the Constitution to advance his political agenda”
Do words matter? Many Trump supporters will claim that his words don’t matter, only his actions. So, when Trump ruminates about changing “federal libel law” to make it easier to sue media outlets….and chilling the 1st amendment…it doesn’t actually matter because he didn’t actually pursue the goal. He was just wishcasting, expressing frustration with what he deemed as “fake news”. He does this a lot. I still believe that Trump’s dream job would be a regular spot on The View….wishcasting away.
But the serious question is whether it’s proper for the head of the Executive Branch…arguably the most powerful man in the world….to play fast and loose with his ruminations? I would say it’s horrible because it’s planting the seed. Like on the campaign trail when Trump would ruminate about supporters beating up any hecklers. He wishcasts, planting the seed, hoping someone might make it happen for him….and of course he would pay the legal bills (well maybe, right?).
It happened again with Pence and the Electoral Count Act. He suggests what Pence should do, pressures him with his personal disappointment, then suggests mob action reprisal when he fails to deliver for him. J6 in itself was Trump wishcasting to secure a second term, instructing his mob that if they don’t “fight like hell” then “you’re not going to have a country anymore”. Of course his legal team made sure he didn’t personally go and lead the charge, just as they protected him from wishcasting and firing Mueller.
The hard truth is that people listen when powerful people wishcast. They storm the Capitol because they think that is what the wishcaster actually wants. They want to please. Personally I think this explains Rudy Giuliani’s rapid and sad descent into political madness. He wanted to stay relevant to Trump, so Rudy went off on his own wishcasting, saying things that had no factual basis but that he wanted to be true….or, that he wanted enough Oompa Loompas to think were true.
So, no, Trump should never wish that the Constitution would just go away and let him do what he wants. As the Chief Law Enforcement officer and the head of the Executive Branch confidence in the system means confidence in checks and balances and that rules are being followed. Trump eats away at norms he should be reinforcing, not griping about. Just like the election denialism running rampant in the GOP, such memes take life and bloom, such that normal people start to ruminate about lawlessness as well.
We see where this goes. Good conservative voters no longer expect integrity amd honesty from their leaders, just results. The ends justifies the means. Character is no longer destiny, now it’s an impediment. It’s evidence that someone is NOT a fighter. When we have an absence of leadership, this thinking is what creeps in. We all become wishcasters, feeding our worst selves. At what point do we recognize we’re circling the bowl?
AJ_Liberty (ca212e) — 6/1/2023 @ 4:52 ammr. former president donald trump, who does not contain iodine an essential nutrient, has no more need to offer the vice presidency to ms. failed gubernatorial candidate kari lake than he needs to offer it to mr. radio talk show host mark levin
she gets her tuppence just by being on the same stage with him
like mark levin
nk (6d11b7) — 6/1/2023 @ 5:30 amI have enjoyed your discussion, comrades. But what Trump has done or not done, or what he might do or not do, is like what scales are shedding off the snake.
He was a lowlife panderer who should not have been allowed within a mile of the White House in 2015, and he remains a lowlife panderer who should not be allowed within a mile of the White House in 2023.
And on that point, felipe has the advantage. Of course there’s always less to Trump than meets the eye.
nk (6d11b7) — 6/1/2023 @ 5:39 amIt does lead to another question for felipe, and any other Trump-voting commenter here: What would it take for a conservative to not vote for Trump in a primary or the general? What’s the tipping point?
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/1/2023 @ 6:31 amIncessant lying doesn’t seem to matter. Illegitimately and unconstitutionally and likely illegally trying to overturn a legitimate election result doesn’t seem to matter. Obstructing justice doesn’t seem to matter. Enlisting foreign powers to help him get reelected doesn’t seem to matter. Character doesn’t matter.
What does Trump have to do before you shake your head and say, “Well that does it, I can’t believe Trump did/said [insert bad thing here]. I won’t vote for Joe, but I’ll either not vote or write in a protest vote.”
@110
Give me a candidate that wont go “balls deep” on the progressive side of the policy agenda.
I also won’t do a protest vote either.
The damage democrats has done, imo, has far exceeded the “stop the steal” shenanigans by the former President. And I can say that, because I’m firmly in the camp of having faith in our institutions to prevent Trump from doing so, which it did quite easily.
whembly (d116f3) — 6/1/2023 @ 6:41 amI would have very little faith in our institutions if Trump controls those in the Executive Branch (given his desire for retribution), this time with a compliant Congress (especially the House) which has shown it will do anything to protect him.
Rip Murdock (8ed0a2) — 6/1/2023 @ 6:50 amThere’s a solution Rip.
Lets get like-minded voters engaged in the primary and get behind a non-Trump candidate.
You live in California (I think, plz correct me if I’m wrong). California is super important during the primary season.
I’m wholeheartedly behind the NeverTrump movement during the primary. Let’s make it so.
whembly (d116f3) — 6/1/2023 @ 6:58 amGood morning all! Slept like a baby, thanks be to G*D for that welcome mercy. I made my morning devotions in humility and thanksgiving, then the usual upkeep. Now I can spend a few moments with you before being carted around for various visitations, so here goes.
——
AJ_Liberty (ca212e) — 6/1/2023 @ 4:52 am
What an outstanding comment! I find no fault in your analysis or conclusion, so I must agree with it. You may already know that I did not, could not vote for Trump in 2016 – what a crazy proposition, thought I. I watched as the opposition to every move he made, manifest itself in the courts, press, and halls of power. all of this contention being waged on the lightning rod that Trump became, and still some things truly great things were accomplished. I’ll name just one.
The Abraham Accords, under reported, under appreciated, would have garner a Nobel Peace Prize for any Democrat. Hell Obama did nothing for his. It was not even mentioned along with any other foreign policy accomplishment during the Trump/Biden debates. What an injustice! So I voted for Trump in 2020. I’ll tell you my opinion of why he lost; the non-stop drumbeat against Trump persuaded enough republicans/Independents to create the group currently known as “never Trump.” I see them repeating their protest in 2024.
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nk (6d11b7) — 6/1/2023 @ 5:30 am
nk (6d11b7) — 6/1/2023 @ 5:39 am
There is a saying; “Friends are the people who know us so well. All the faults and warts we possess; and they like us anyway. When nk is right, he is right.
———-
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/31/2023 @ 9:16 pm
Finally, I come to a very gracious and kind offer from the wonderful and tolerant friend, lurker. Oh I would love to continue or discussion, but I am mentally worn out with the worldly matters of the times in which we live. I am unashamed to confess that I am not long for this world, even if, like Dr. Seuss, “I am not in bad shape, for the shape I am in.” Bless you for humoring me in my dotage. G*d bless you for your kindness, lurker.
———–
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/31/2023 @ 9:54 pm
How unfortunate, Paul, would that you had stopped at “yes.” I look forward to the day when you know when to say when. Your comments will outstrip all others.
felipe (70468a) — 6/1/2023 @ 7:01 amI’m just asking the questions, felipe. I don’t know you feel offended about questions.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/1/2023 @ 7:07 amUnfortunately being anti-Trump in California is a distinctly minority view. There is no real choice between Trump and his Mini-Me DeSantis, and I don’t expect any of the other candidates to survive until March.
Rip Murdock (b8e1c0) — 6/1/2023 @ 7:14 amRip.
I reject the premise that DeSantis is the “mini-me Trump”.
DeSantis is his own thing and I’m not sure why folks are underestimating him based on his track record in Florida.
Even if you have misgivings on DeSantis… he’s still lightyears a better candidate than Trump.
whembly (d116f3) — 6/1/2023 @ 7:17 amI am fully anti-Trump through the general election, as California will obviously go for the Democratic candidate (whomever that may be) it doesn’t matter if I vote for a Republican presidential candidate.
Rip Murdock (b8e1c0) — 6/1/2023 @ 7:17 amIn my besotted home state which usually votes 1 to 2 weeks after SuperTuesday, I will be a co-belligerent of Whembley and be Team DeSantis. Same as 2016, but I and my sister cancelled each other’s N-T votes out (me- Cruz, her-Kasich)…Illinois actually had a relatively even Trump/Cruz/Kasich split, where Trump was not the horseshoe but the empty space between.
urbanleftbehind (a51325) — 6/1/2023 @ 8:20 amThat isn’t the part to leave out, felipe. It is the most important of all comments and the reason we can’t trust Trump as a leader at any level. Without the Constitution, America doesn’t protect any if us or our way of life, especially our religion.
DRJ (6586da) — 6/1/2023 @ 8:39 am@118
Please don’t ignore this.
I’m challenging you to be engaged in your state’s primary, and if you really don’t want it to be Trump…now is the time to get your state to select a non-Trump candidate in the GOP primary.
whembly (d116f3) — 6/1/2023 @ 8:54 am“The damage democrats has done, imo, has far exceeded the “stop the steal” shenanigans by the former President.”
I subscribe to Chris Matthews’ analogy that Republicans are the daddy party and the Democrats are the mommy party. Republicans foster rugged individualism; Democrats look to take care of everyone. Each captures certain truths and brings perspective to every policy debate. We fool ourselves if we believe that one is always right and the other is always wrong.
I prefer Republican governance. I tend to detest Democrat’s focus on identity politics, income redistribution, and cultural experimentation. However, I pause when I hear that Democrats have caused grave damage to the country, especially say in the last 15 years. Things, on average, are pretty good. I think social media has taken small cuts and scratched them into oozing wounds. Discussions which before might end with a beer, now end with retreat into our respective bubble. Our political culture is toxic. It affords no compromise, which means lingering problems fester. Us-vs-them is a problem because it takes a simple event like the debt ceiling and it makes it a crisis. It takes a world-wide pandemic and turns it into a political cudgel.
I don’t get the whole trans preoccupation, but it’s also not an issue that has much resonance in my life. There seems to be some common sense compromises that most people would be fine with. But right now it’s weaponized. Same with CRT. If there was a problem at the local grade school, they would see me and I think it would get worked out without state-wide or national legislation. Common sense…being able to talk to one another. Even Obamacare with its troublesome mandate is far from the end of the world. For some in fact, it made health care more reachable. That’s why it’s kind of hard to cut it out root and shaft. However, we struggle to improve it because we prefer it as an issue. The entire issue has imploded in “it’s too difficult…let’s argue about something else”.
Our debt/deficit problems are now equally shared. Republicans philosophically are better positioned, but we now see an abrupt retreat from entitlements and we continue to rebuild the military with no compromise on taxes. Progress is zero, maybe 1. Immigration will fester for the rest of my life because there’s no longer a middle. We will stick with broken because we can fund raise and finger point.
So, no, the grave damage that we have is to our civil discourse and being able to work together and tolerate our differences. Both sides fuel distrust. Checks and balances protect us from huge pendulum swings in policy. But we are eroding those safeguards as we get frustrated with paralysis. The filibuster may get chipped away. Executive Orders become more extreme. Courts intrude more and more into political questions. Many don’t believe in the electoral college. We distrust our elections. I don’t think we are fearing the right things.
AJ_Liberty (ca212e) — 6/1/2023 @ 9:00 amThe “daddy party” is as outdated as Chris Matthews, IMO, particularly when a petulant child is its de facto leader.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/1/2023 @ 9:09 amWhatever. My candidate(s) won’t make it to California’s primary.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 9:33 amWhatever. My candidate(s) won’t make it to California’s primary.
Some won’t even enter the race.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 10:02 amEven if you have misgivings on DeSantis… he’s still lightyears a better candidate than Trump.
A very low bar, at least among Republicans. I still have trouble with Democrats though — comparing a petty thief and ignoramuys like Trump to the mass larceny and central “planning” of the Democrats is like comparing Bozo the Clown to septic tanks.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 10:06 am@124
Understood.
Why not DeSantis this? I mean, he’s a viable “not-Trump”.
whembly (d116f3) — 6/1/2023 @ 10:51 am@126
I’m voting Bozo the Clown over any Democrats.
whembly (d116f3) — 6/1/2023 @ 10:51 amwhembly,
Hopefully, you draw the line at Cthulu or SMOD.
Appalled (03f53c) — 6/1/2023 @ 11:01 amIn modern times, Americans prefer Republican Presidents to Democrats. The GOP has more Presidents — 19 — than any one party. Even someone like Trump can get elected, but not twice. That shows how bad he is.
DRJ (2046b4) — 6/1/2023 @ 11:01 am@129
Not really.
They all destroys our country.
whembly (d116f3) — 6/1/2023 @ 11:08 amDesantis is a big government authoritarian who has trampled 1A rights in FL and talked about pardoning the Jan-6ers, although in a vague way.
I need someone that will uphold the constitution and he ain’t it.
He’s better then Trump and I can see voting for him in a primary but I probably can’t vote for him in the general.
Time123 (ee4ddc) — 6/1/2023 @ 11:52 am@132 DeSantis’ comments regarding pardoning the J6er is through the lens whether or not the government abused their positions. I don’t see that happening honestly, and frankly, the job of POTUS *is* to review and issue pardons if abuses does occur in ANY cases. I can’t find the quote, I’ll try to find it if you’re interested, but he also made a point to state that he’s not going to wait till the end of the term like most Presidents do to avoid political accountability. He’d do it for the right reason and there’s no reason to wait. So, if it something you’d disagree with, you can voice your displeasure at the next ballot box.
Let’s talk about “Desantis is a big government authoritarian who has trampled 1A rights in FL”. I’m assuming this is referring to the Parental Rights bill (misnamed by critics as ‘Dont say Gay’ bill) and FL legislature removing Disney’s total control over the Reedy Creek governance board.
First, let me say this – I do appreciate yours (and others) gut instincts to err to the say of 1st Amendment principles. When government does something controversial that could encroach on individual/corporate 1st amendment rights, we should always TRY to err in protecting 1st amendment principles.
However…
With respect to the Parent’s Rights bill, I would really encourage you to read the bill. It’s not that long:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF
You’ll notice that if you cntrl+F for “gay” or the likes, you won’t see anything euphemistically called “Don’t Say Gay”.
You’ll see that this bill does nothing to “drive gays back into the closet” or the likes, and any arguments attesting to that is simply silly spin.
With respect to the Disney fight… let me ask you this:
What is “The Government”?
It’s the voters asserting, via their elected officials, of using constitutional executive and legislative powers to prevent the ideological contagions of the left from seizing all the institutions of public life. In other words – voters sets what is acceptable culturally.
For far too long, GOP voters abstained a lot from using government to engage fully culturally. Both DeSantis and FL legislatures up-ended that convention.
So when Disney publicly announced that they would lobby against this Parental Rights bills, and even campaign against the GOP legislatures who voted for it, what Disney is really doing, is thumbing their nose of the voters who voted for those GOP politicians.
The GOP legislatures, by extension of the voters, drew a line in the sand saying “don’t teach sex topics to my kids without my expressed approvals”. And Disney had an insane reaction to such sentiments. In response Florida legislatures removed Disney’s total control over the Reedy Creek boards, an arraignment that may Disney supporters claimed as a ‘government benefit’ to protect a veneer of 1st amendment principles.
I put ‘government benefit’ in quotations on purpose because I don’t think it’s an appropriate description.
Disney was the only institution who had this arraignment. So its more of a crony-corporatism carve-out than simply a benefit. To me, for it to be a benefit, then it needs to be more neutral, such that any other “park” business (Universal, Busch Wildlife, Sea World) would have the same thing. Had it be like that, where other parks enjoyed the same benefit, then I would definitely agree with those who said this was strictly punitive that infringed on Disney’s 1st Amendment rights.
But, I don’t think that fits. Disney’s original arraignment, was so unique, I don’t think there was anything similar to that elsewhere in the US, and is not a defined “benefit” that when applied neutrally, could any other theme park could take advantage of…
Lets say hypothetically, Disney prevails in Federal courts and all the way up to SCOTUS. When, if ever, could the Florida legislature change the nature of Reedy Creek situation?
whembly (d116f3) — 6/1/2023 @ 12:45 pmBiden rambling incoherently again at Air Force fraduation. Collapses yet again when attempting to leave the stage.
NJRob (5cb25e) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:04 pmI don’t think the Reedy Creek district will return, however, I expect Florida taxpayers to pay Disney a substantial amount of money.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:09 pmDeSantis has made it quite clear that ending the Reedy Creek district had everything to do with Disney’s opposition to the Florida legislation and nothing to do with the Reedy Creek district itself. If that were true, why did DeSantis tolerate the arrangement during his first term?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:17 pmLike Fox News found out, discovery will be a b!tch.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:18 pmSome won’t even enter the race.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 10:02 am
Some have.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:21 pmThey have the good sense not to.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:54 pmSome have.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:21 pm
(later)
They have the good sense not to.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:54 pm
So some of your candidates don’t have good sense? And for the ones with good sense, who aren’t in, who do they endorse?
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:58 pm[sometimes you just have to take the cheap shots]
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:58 pmThe path for anyone else — DeSantis, Scott and maybe Nikki Haley — still runs through MAGA Land.
It runs through a Trumpless MAGA Land. As long as he’s in the race, his hard-core plus the weathervanes who “don’t want to waste their vote” add up to the nomination.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 2:02 pmThe not good sense candidates include Christie and Hutchinson, the good sense “candidates” aren’t taking sides.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 2:03 pmMY feeling is that very serious federal charges will be leveled against Trump sometime next spring or summer — late enough to make it hard to dump Trump (or find him not guilty), early enough so Biden can claim it’s not an “October Surprise.”
Because we really are not divided enough as a nation.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 2:06 pmThey aren’t necessarily politicians.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 2:06 pmKevin,
Like the trumped up charges Biden’s DOJ is putting on the Republican in WVA?
NJRob (5cb25e) — 6/1/2023 @ 2:12 pmDeSantis might cost Biden my vote. The temptation to write in Mickey Mouse will be hard to resist. Ba-dum-tss!
nk (6d11b7) — 6/1/2023 @ 2:13 pmThanks, but no thanks. I want Medicare to continue to pay for vaccines and antibiotics, and not for buckets of KFC to Shango and exorcisms for incubi and succubi.
nk (6d11b7) — 6/1/2023 @ 2:18 pmLike the trumped up charges Biden’s DOJ is putting on the Republican in WVA?
1) Welcome back Rob.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 2:45 pm2) I think that Trump’s activities on (and before) January 6th deserve adjudication. I can see them charging him with incitement at the very least, and will consider seditious conspiracy if some of the folks facing 20 years flip on him. Trump was pretty reckless. I find it instructive that he’s not demanding they charge him now, or STFU.
exorcisms for incubi and succubi.
Pretty sure that Trump would want the succubi to stay the night.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 2:47 pmnk,
I think that you have too mild a view of Trump’s second term. He wants to be emperor. He thinks he’s Augustus, but he’s really Commodus.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 2:50 pmUnless the republicans can defuse the abortion issue (democrats could never defuse the gun grabbing issue and it cost them dearly for over 50 years) and yelling what about trannies and drag queens aint cutting it. Illegal immigration has some traction ;but not enough to prevent the 80% of voters who oppose a ban on abortion from giving the republican party a post natal abortion in 2024. If it weren’t for disgusted democrats voting against 4 corrupt corporate establishment party hacks in safe pro-choice new york (they even voted for george santos over them!) democrats would of kept control of the house in 2022. Anti-abortion republicans have gone even further to enrage pro-choice voters since then. By the way if bobby kennedy jr. runs third party in 2024 he will take votes away from trump as democrat primary voters will hold their nose and vote for biden over him.
asset (5f41d9) — 6/1/2023 @ 3:29 pmThey could change it any time they’re not doing it for a constitutionally prohibited purpose. Of course having done if for a prohibited purpose the first time means it’s harder to make a persuasive case that the purpose is permissible the next time. But that’s life. It has consequences.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 6/1/2023 @ 3:35 pmnk #149: the Lesser Fallen never asked for their tasks. I kind of feel sorry for them.
Simon Jester (37f06e) — 6/1/2023 @ 3:36 pmP.S. nk, if you have never read James Blish’s “Black Easter,” I so so so recommend it.
Simon Jester (37f06e) — 6/1/2023 @ 3:36 pmKevin #151: if you read about the relationship between incubi and succubi and the Two Fold Path(as in Blish), I do not think germophobes would be a fan.
Simon Jester (37f06e) — 6/1/2023 @ 3:38 pm*having done it*
lurker (cd7cd4) — 6/1/2023 @ 3:38 pmP.S. nk, if you have never read James Blish’s “Black Easter,” I so so so recommend it.
Thanks, Simon. I have read Poul Anderson’s “Operation Incubus”, the third story in the collection Operation Chaos.
nk (6d11b7) — 6/1/2023 @ 4:07 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 1:47 pm
I don’t think that’s true, but I think that is what Ron (the Ukraine war is caused by a territorial dispute) DeSantis believes.
At least the craziest person who won’t get an argument from any of the other candidates.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 6/1/2023 @ 4:33 pmWith the caveat: If you had your druthers..
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 6/1/2023 @ 4:38 pmPrediction markets work better than informed “expert” opinion.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 6/1/2023 @ 4:39 pmThis is a crack in the dike: CNN reported on Wednesday that prosecutors obtained a July 2021 recording of Trump speaking about keeping a classified document that purportedly details a potential attack on Iran and discussing said document with associates who did not have the required clearance.
This does not hang on the squeeze your butt cheeks and click your heels notion of declassification. This makes him directly vulnerable under the Espionage Act. There is no hearsay problem. There is no FBI is being mean problem. There is no conflict of interest testimony problem. It’s his words.
Now you might argue, why will MAGA care? Everything is a Deep State plot against our modern King David. Well, it’s the first chip on his electability that Soft MAGA will take note of. Georgia and J6 will likely see the dike cracking more. Smart-enough people will start to understand that nominating a felon will not just lose the GOP the White House, but can drag down the Senate and House as well. Is riding the Trump Train worth whatever the next Obamacare lurch Left that that might bring?
Second, mix in the Big Man Chris Christie throwing in his perspiration soaked hat into the ring. He is the one SOB in the field who can prosecute the political case against Trump. Sure he understands that this is a Kamikaze move, but this will be payback for being made into a backbencher in favor of Bannon and Kushner. He has the oratory skill to put the garbage out there. At that point, the other ones will have the opening to drive the unelectability narrative further.
It’s Trump Party…until it’s not. Jack Smith ain’t playing. Trump can’t help but help digging the hole.
AJ_Liberty (ca212e) — 6/1/2023 @ 5:02 pmIt’s certainly true if you look at who won Republican primaries and lost the general elections in 2020.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/1/2023 @ 5:19 pmShould say:
It’s certainly true if you look at who won Republican primaries and lost the general elections in 2022.
Rip Murdock (8ed0a2) — 6/1/2023 @ 5:25 pmLets say hypothetically, Disney prevails in Federal courts and all the way up to SCOTUS. When, if ever, could the Florida legislature change the nature of Reedy Creek situation?
Let’s not since one of the cases is so outrageous on Disney’s part that they must lose. THe outgoing, Disney-friendly district board, as it’s last act before they were all replaced, transferred almost all their power to Disney.
https://www.wfla.com/disney/desantisland-governors-new-board-says-disney-stripped-its-power/
This is like having your victory over a school board nullified by the outgoing board giving all its power to the teacher’s union.
The fact that DeSantis changed the structure of the board for political reason might be cause to object to the process, but transferring government power to a private entity does not seem like the way to correct that.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 8:31 pmNow you might argue, why will MAGA care?
MAGA, for all its faults, cares about the military and national security, at least from furrinners. This is a bit of a wedge for some in MAGA, particularly for the soldiers and ex-soldiers, They’d been deserting Trump for a while, until Biden flubbed the Afghan withdrawal. Something that puts soldiers lives more dangerous is not something they will like.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 8:40 pmPrediction markets work better than informed “expert” opinion.
That depends. I don’t care one whit for what European bettors think about US politics. They just reflect their domestic news media.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 8:42 pmP.S. nk, if you have never read James Blish’s “Black Easter,” I so so so recommend it.
My Calibre blurb reads “A gripping story about primal evil: a sinister intermingling of power, politics, modern theology, the dark forces of necromancy, and what proves, all too terribly, not to be superstition.”
As for “Operation Incubus”, you either need to locate a copy of F&SF, October 1959, or a NESFA small-press book: The Collected Short Works of Poul Anderson, Volume 5: Door to Anywhere. (Amazon)
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 9:31 pmI do not think germophobes would be a fan.
Explain Stormy.
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/1/2023 @ 9:44 pmYahoo news breaking: Chinese official admits covid came from wuhan lab! Chinese govt. official George Gao head of chinese center for disease control admits in BBC interveiw!
asset (61d165) — 6/1/2023 @ 11:48 pm-Sigh-
Let me put something in perspective, Paul [bold italics mine]:
Then my response:
your reaction:
Ah, the old “I’m just asking questions” defense of those acting in bad faith. Can you understand lame your reaction is to me? I know you don’t believe that I am offended about being asked questions. You either pretend to not understand the concept of tact, or the concept of giving a simple answer to the simple question “I respect your opinion, Paul. Can you bring yourself to respect mine?”
I ignored your need to qualify your “yes.” But could not appreciate your tactless need to put in again, your oar, with a question imbued with “gotcha.” I thought it unfortunate and decided to just let it go, rather than engage in what might predictably unfold; another “pig-wrestling session.”
——
My dearest DRJ! You remind me of my beloved late sister and i shall treat your comment as if she had said it:
No, it is not the most important of comments because it is ridiculous to ask if anyone is “comfortable” with an obviously unacceptable scenario which omits nuance, and is, IMO and experience, susceptible to a goal-post-moving session by way of the abuse of reduction ad absurdum maneuvers. Better to let it go.
This decision of mine was informed by the knowledge that this is nothing new and had already been explored.
Since then, I think my fears, if no one elses, have dissipated, just as Hillary’s fears of Trump putting her in jail, must have dissipated; Trump hasn’t a chance in hell.
side note. without a preview, I am not sure of the quality of my link embed. Here goes….
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 2:46 amReductio, not reduction! Stupid brain.
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 2:52 amLike many others, I detest the one sentence paragraph which resulted in my annoying habit of pressing return after embedding a link; something that occurs infrequently, but still annoying to me. I am having an uncomfortable night – ignore me.
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 3:03 amAJ_Liberty (ca212e) — 6/1/2023 @ 9:00 am
Wonderful musings, AJ. Thank you.
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 3:22 amI know, right? If he gets reelected, it will show how bad we are!
I will support Scott until he drops out, then I’ll support DeSantis. Can we work together to get the candidate we want, not the one we deserve? I won’t vote for a Democrat President.
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 3:29 amOperation Chaos, which is a collection of the four original Poul Anderson stories of the werewolf and his witch wife, includes “Operation Incubus”. There are five copies available to borrow electronically, for free, at the Internet Archive.
I do not recommend the second werewolf and witch book, Operation Luna published by Tor forty years after the original stories. It does not read like anything written by Poul Anderson to me. But de gustibus like they say.
nk (f4c478) — 6/2/2023 @ 4:19 amThank you, felipe, for your “nice” way of calling another commenter bad faith and simplistic. It met my expectations.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/2/2023 @ 5:27 amThis was a president who already sh@t on the 12th Amendment of our Constitution when he tried to bully his VP into illegitimately keeping him in power, so my question wasn’t hypothetical. It happened, right at a critical moment of a transfer of power. Trump wanted it so badly that he chose to see how a riot on his behalf played out, and I’m sure he would’ve let it play out even longer had his amen chorus at FoxNews and such not squawked about it behind the scenes.
Add to that his suborning electoral fraud in GA and his Fake Elector scheme across multiple states, and you have a person who thinks so little of the rule of law that he would toss it for the sake of holding onto power, for staying on as Most Powerful Man On Earth. I’ll never abide or support that, even if a Democrat has to win (not that I’d vote for that Democrat).
To me, that Trump didn’t get away with his coup attempt doesn’t excuse or absolve him of making the effort. It’s unforgivable that a president would do so, IMO, and any conservative should work to not put him back in that seat, because it’s not conservative what he did. More seriously, it’s not American.
Everyone has their lines that should never be crossed, and Trump crossed mine, and I find it laughable that others would take umbrage or feel offended at a question that asks where your lines are. I’ll take the non-answers as there is no line, because that person on the “right” side of the tribe, thank you very much. At least, that’s what I’m hearing.
If there’s one way my politics and views of this nation have changed over past couple decades, it’s been for the concept that we are a nation that was built on the rule of law, on due process, on upholding our rights. If I sound angry, yes, I’m angry that a guy like Trump thinks so little of our country, that he puts himself above our country all the time in service to his personal ambition, that he put himself above any laws that got in his way.
I’m glad we have a system of checks and balances that would defuse and temper a self-centered megalomaniac from making a hash of our Constitution and legal system, but why tempt fate again.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/2/2023 @ 6:19 amPaul, based on what he’s written, felipe appears to be a single-issue voter: abortion. He did carve out earlier that he could not vote for Trump if he ever renounced being pro-life. He also feels a certain amount of indebtedness to Trump for his role in reversing Roe and supporting the Life March. The fact that he says “I won’t vote for a Democrat President” is likely because of their stance on abortion. He says he is for Scott but lauds all of Trump’s accomplishments and defends him against my questions about his character.
He also has expressed an unusual faith in the checks in the system, though I think he discounts the amount of mischief a corrupt President could wrought internationally where his power is plenary. He could redeploy forces on day 1 of his administration and create a crisis of confidence. He discounts the harm of Trump’s next administration being a bunch of yes-men. He is a man of deep faith, just oddly applied here.
I think felipe is better served by being direct and avoiding the passive aggressive nonsense. If you are primarily a single-issue voter, just say it. You’re not somehow losing the internet by acknowledging reality, if that is correct.
AJ_Liberty (3e5304) — 6/2/2023 @ 6:22 amI think that Trump is like a pinch of sand. And being aware that there are ladies on this thread, I advise them to read no farther.
A pinch of sand in your socks is a minor nuisance.
A pinch of sand in your Vaseline could ruin your whole evening.
A pinch of sand in a plane’s fuel tank ….
Let’s at least keep Trump away from airplanes.
nk (f4c478) — 6/2/2023 @ 6:34 amAlso, it’s not an improbability that Trump could get elected POTUS again. The RCP average has Trump up by 31, and it’s been way for awhile. As I see it, Trump is a lock.
On the other side of the aisle, Joe Biden is one stumble away from putting a cackling charmless lightweight into the Oval Office, and who would want to vote for that. Sure, we already elected a black person to the presidency, but the 44th president had charisma and brains and political skills, all attributes that Kamala has shown she lacks, and Trump has already demonstrated himself as a Master Persuader, as Scott Adams calls him, or world-class con man as I call it.
I hope Jack Smith quickly puts together an open-and-shut case and speedy trial. He might be the one guy who saves my party from going down this dark road.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/2/2023 @ 6:42 amGreat comments, Paul, especially @ 6:19.
DRJ (fd3827) — 6/2/2023 @ 7:27 am“As I see it, Trump is a lock.”
We’ve just entered summer. All of the non-Trump candidates have kept their gunpowder relatively dry for fear of offending the base. I suspect they will aggressively court the soft-MAGA wing now. You do see DeSantis hitting back at Trump’s ineffectiveness. You also see him being a bit more active than Trump. He’s working the circuit, though I fear that he comes across as a bit gruff. He lacks the happy warrior personality. I still find it interesting how Christie might prosecute the case against Trump. He might be viewed as compromised by the hard-MAGA, but his role here as realist will win him Never-Trump and can be persuadable for soft-MAGA (to consider someone other than Trump, but probably not Christie). I still see a potential Fox News dynamic that might work against Trump’s inevitability. Most Republicans don’t want 4 more years of a Democrat picking judges and justices. More and more felony concerns will just drag the party down. There’s still time for soft-MAGA to realign.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 6/2/2023 @ 7:29 amJake (5fc31a) — 5/29/2023 @ 1:05 pm
It’s more because they think he’s on the right side of many arguments
Which is easy to do, if you don’t know enough, because he says things that aren’t true and virtually nobody conservative takes issue with what he says.\Maybe they vote for him because of his accomplishments during his Presidency. Which are many.
And the people on the other side of the political spectrum just take the all purpose position that he’s wrong and say things that, in fact, aren’t borne out.
Sammy Finkelnan (89a911) — 6/2/2023 @ 9:10 amPaul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/2/2023 @ 6:42 am
Well, the New York Times had a leak to say that he has an open and shut case about one fact — that, in July 2021, Trump waved around a highly classified document about options for Iran during a tape recorded interview by two ghost writers working on a book that Mark Meadows was writing at which several Trump aides were present.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/01/us/politics/trump-recording-documents-evidence.html
But the issue of classification is irrelevant to the laws being investigated, although Trump was implicitly acknowledging that he knew he was in possession of some document that he never supplied that the National Archives had asked to be returned to government custody
And he can’t be accused of revealing military information because he never allowed anyone to get a good look at it, and besides, he lied about what it proved. General Milley was never an advocate of going to war with Iran .
(General Milley was going around giving interviews saying that he was the last line of defense in discouraging Trump from attacking Iran during the period after the November, 2020 election. Trump was arguing it was exactly the opposite and that Milley wanted war)
Sammy Finkelnan (89a911) — 6/2/2023 @ 9:26 amEveryone who has a “line in the sand” can be called “a single issue voter” because it is the one issue that changes everything. So we can all be called “single issue voters.” Apart from the injustice of reducing even the most thoughtful voter to a single issue, there is nothing wrong with having a line in the sand where one says “no more!”
A positive accomplishment is laudable and should be lauded. An astute reader who possesses a good memory will recall that I have lauded the positive accomplishments of Trump’s critics. I publicly lauded Mitt Romney for calling out Trump.
[begin old man’s rant about kids on his lawn]
Poor Paul exhibits signs of trauma relating to Jan6 (“These things happened”) Maybe I am inured after bearing the tragedies that occur over a long life. Maybe experience counts for level thinking and helps one to stop seeing as a child, thinking like a child, reacting like a child. Every generation thinks they have invented the world, knowing what is best for the world, and are better than all who came before them.
[end rant]
I agree with DRJ, especially:
Vote for Tim Scott.
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 9:26 amAmen. Vote for Tim Scott
Hey, I’ve got “thing,” now!
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 9:30 amI left out something I should have addressed:
I have never defended Trump’s character! I ignore people’s obsession with Trump’s character. You want to go there? Be my guest, I’ll still be here when you get back.
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 9:36 amI’d say it’s also open-and-shut that Trump violated the Espionage Act by willfully retaining materials relating to the national defense, and he compounded that federal crime by obstructing their return. The tape recording seems like gravy to me, and I hope SC Smith will put that evidence to good use.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/2/2023 @ 10:05 amfelipe @42: “Trump’s sins are G*d’s to judge, not mine…. If you want to judge Trump, I suggest you place the saved lives of the unborn into his balance… I’d say that Jan 6 and all the rest pales to just that one victory.”
felipe @189: “I have never defended Trump’s character! I ignore people’s obsession with Trump’s character.”
In 42, you do seem to put everything on a scale and conclude, yeah worth it. Maybe you do not defend Trump’s character, but you certainly appear to rationalize it.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 6/2/2023 @ 11:12 amI wonder…
Upthread, as it relates to J6, Patterico said “But he [Biden] did not try to steal an election. Trump did.” It’s a similar take as mine, so would you say “Poor Patterico exhibits signs of trauma relating to Jan6”?
When DRJ said, also relating to J6, that “He already tried a coup. The second try will be even easier for him.” Did you tsk-tsk him with “Poor DRJ exhibits signs of trauma relating to Jan6”?
But hey, I’m the one at fault, for wanting to know what your final straw is. My apologies.
Those experiences that gained you such superior wisdom must’ve really been something, that they granted you the power of “level thinking” while the lesser beings around you are “reacting like a child”. Anyways, now I know that when you say “rant”, it really means a personal impugning. Thank you for that lesson, felipe. I learned a lot.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/2/2023 @ 11:18 amNew York Times hasa story that New York City mayor Eric Adams tells lies about himself like Joe Biden, except it never mentions Joe Biden (it takes asentence to argue this is not like George Santos.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/01/nyregion/eric-adams-life-stories-nyc.html
Sammy Finkelnan (7f2d71) — 6/2/2023 @ 3:33 pmBiden to sign billl. He will speak within a half hour or hour and say calamity was averted.
Sammy Finkelnan (7f2d71) — 6/2/2023 @ 3:37 pmnk (f4c478) — 6/2/2023 @ 4:19 am
Well, not 40 years. Operation Chaos was published by Lancer and Doubleday in 1971, Luna in 1999 by Tor (an omnibus was also published by the book club in ’99).
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/2/2023 @ 4:00 pmPaul, there are some people who can consider Trump’s administration and policies without considering his slide into lunacy after the election.
The latter period should inform us of his intentions going forward, but it does not make everything he did before then beyond the pale. After all, Biden has adopted most of Trump’s economic policies (and put the worst of them on steroids).
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/2/2023 @ 4:04 pmThere is a valid argument that Trump’s “sandy orgy” is confined to consenting adults in the Republican Party, many of them not only consenting but currently and formerly enthusiastic participants.
nk (bdb165) — 6/2/2023 @ 4:11 pmTrue, Kevin, but pretty much any other Republican would’ve beat Hillary, picked good judges, moved a conservative agenda forward and, unlike Trump, gotten reelected by not f*cking up a pandemic.
Also, I’m not agreeable he had a “slide” into lunacy, because it was pretty well there from the get-go, along with his penchant to abuse power, starting with firing Comey to stop a counterintelligence investigation into Russia.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/2/2023 @ 4:26 pmWe can have a conservative candidate and agenda in 2024, without Trump’s batsh-t, and a younger candidate would make a fitting contrast to “Old Stumblin’ Joe”.
ABT (Anyone But Trump)
Hello, AJ. Your take is completely logical, however That advice is for those who wish to judge Trump. Advice I do not need because I would not judge him or any other person. The words “If you want to…” does a lot of the lifting. I do not want to judge anyone’s sins. I have my own sins about which to worry. “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 5:34 pmI appreciate the apology, but none is needed since I have no offence at not reading my reply to AJ where AJ asked for my “final straw” a few comments before you asked. Let it go, Paul, I have.
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 5:39 pm-ugh, fer cryin’ out loud!
…since I have [taken] no offense at [your] not reading my reply…
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 5:42 pmnk (bdb165) — 6/2/2023 @ 4:11 pm
For once, I do not understand. What is this “sandy orgy” – forget it, don’t tell me.
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 5:45 pmVote for Tim Scott! Let’s not nominate Trump, again, please!
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 5:48 pmJust for you, felipe, I’ll change the metaphor (or is it simile?). The sand which is Trump is in the machinery of the Republican Party. As long as we keep it out of the machinery of our nation, we can not care.
nk (8265d1) — 6/2/2023 @ 5:50 pmAnd it’s already annoying. 😉
Rip Murdock (ce8d2c) — 6/2/2023 @ 6:08 pmfelipe,
I was taught that “Judge not …” refers to judging whether someone will go to heaven or hell. I don’t think the Bible asks us to ignore bad conduct. In fact, I think the Bible counsels us to avoid such people.
DRJ (fd3827) — 6/2/2023 @ 6:30 pmLink.
DRJ (fd3827) — 6/2/2023 @ 6:35 pmTim Scott is a stalking horse for Trump. There’s a reason Trump is treating him with kid gloves.
Rip Murdock (ce8d2c) — 6/2/2023 @ 7:03 pmnk (8265d1) — 6/2/2023 @ 5:50 pm
Oh, right! The smidge of sand! As the lead bar said to the chemist, “I’m dense.”
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 7:13 pmDRJ (fd3827) — 6/2/2023 @ 6:30 pm
You are absolutely right DRJ. On all counts. Which is why in one of my comments I said that we should still correct error. Did I tell you that my sister was always smarter than I? God rest her soul.
felipe (70468a) — 6/2/2023 @ 7:17 pm@206, I think it’s broader. You’re not supposed to judge without compassion and mercy. The Golden Rule should always be in play: treat someone how you want to be treated. Don’t presume to know what is in someone’s heart, only God can make that judgment.
Now, choosing a leader is about trust. Who can we trust with this immense power and responsibility? We are asked to critically assess a lot about these individuals: intelligence, wisdom, courage, honesty, integrity, diligence, compassion, etc. Policy matters but we want to know how this individual will operate in a crisis, when the going gets tough. How will he treat others? Will be be a bully or will he try to harmonize differences? Is this individual a leader?
The question becomes then, are we being too hard on Trump? Too proud? Not magnanimous enough? Is Trump not also our neighbor? I think the judging needs to accurate and by a standard that you yourself would want applied. Personally, I’m comfortable with my characterization of Trump. We judge all the time who we want around our children and who we choose to socialize with. I don’t think we are obliged to not consider the character of our leaders. We shouldn’t call someone a liar if we too play fast and loose with the truth. But if we value the truth, then wanting our leaders to be truthful is reasonable.
AJ_Liberty (3e5304) — 6/2/2023 @ 7:34 pmWell, the Grand Inquisitor could bend the “weak, vicious, miserable nonentities born wicked and rebellious” to the service of the Church, so he was okay with otherwise letting them live the only life they would ever have the way they wanted to.
And if we could do that with Trump, bend him to the service of America, I would feel the same way. But Trump serves only Trump.
nk (8265d1) — 6/2/2023 @ 7:44 pmI agree God uses the weak and the sinners, nk. It’s all He has to work with here on earth!
I also agree with AJ that we owe compassion and mercy to each other, but I don’t think that is the point of the “Judge not” admonition.
I am honored to be compared with your sister, felipe. She was lucky to have you as her brother.
DRJ (fd3827) — 6/2/2023 @ 8:15 pmTim Scott is a stalking horse for Trump.
Why does Trump need a stalking horse?
Kevin M (2d6744) — 6/2/2023 @ 9:41 pmIn my church and Bible studies, we learned that we’re not to judge what’s in others’ hearts and what we perceive how they practice their faith. I’ve been guilty of that because I’ve said out loud that I didn’t believe Trump when he called himself a Christian, by his words and acts. But that’s not my issue, it’s between Trump and God.
I don’t accept the theology that tells us we are make no judgments about character and what others say and do. In John 7:24, this guy Jesus told us, “Do not judge by outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 6/3/2023 @ 5:37 amThere is also Matthew 7:17: “By their fruit you will recognize them.”
And Ephesians 5:11: “Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them.”
My thoughts (at TD) on where we sit in the GOP primary:
If the GOP base really wanted someone to aggressively and effectively prosecute the culture war, then their man should be DeSantis. Together with the Florida legislature, they’ve thrown everything but the kitchen sink at liberals and wokeism, yet the more the base hears from DeSantis, the less excited they get. It’s not resonating other than, he might make a good VP or he’s my second choice.
AllahNick is looking at this in his usual clinical lawyerly fashion. He’s analyzing this as if the base is rational. It’s not. This is a personality contest, with the culture war as a backdrop. DeSantis isn’t surging because he’s not as entertaining and endearing as Trump….and he never will be. The cameras increasingly catch DeSantis in awkward and uncomfortable situations. He doesn’t appear to have George W Bush’s self-deprecating humor and he can’t pull off Trump’s over-the-top WWE schtick. He comes across as short and nasty. Even his laugh is weirdly forced.
You say, well none of that should matter. It’s policy, right? But Trump is good enough there. Trump gives the base someone to blame: Mexicans, Chinese, Muslims, BLM, terrible trade deals, and all the funny nicknames for the politcians that are just terrible. Going after Disney? It’s a gag that’s gone on too long. Shipping the immigrants to NYC and Chicago. Now that was funny, gave it to the liberals, and worked. No permits for concealed carry has no comedic value. A 6wk ban on abortion doesn’t get a yuck-yuck. In fact, the masses side with Trump at seeing this as maybe putting the cart before the horse. It’s out-punting the coverage.
Now don’t get me wrong. The base loves to eye-gouge the Left. This is the Talk Radio schtick. But as Rush Limbaugh always understood, you still have to be that entertaining warm lovable fuzzball. DeSantis is more the standoffish pitbull: effective but not endearing. People are unclear if they want to watch the DeSantis show. Many love the Trump show and don’t want to see it cancelled.
So finally, what about Tim Scott then? Outwardly Scott is a nice guy. Optimistic. Maybe even inspiring. His life story IS the liberal eye gouge. The problem is that he doesn’t really do WWE. He’s not audacious or bigger than life. He’s not awkward like DeSantis, but he also doesn’t have an act. The hard and soft MAGA want Trump’s baggage because like reality TV, we are conditioned to want drama. Scott is vanilla for a party that craves cookies and cream. He’s also viewed, perhaps a bit condescendingly, as a great VP option who will have his time down the road. Right now, 60% of the party is enmeshed in the Trump drama series. What will he say? How will he react? People are cheering him to elude the Deep State, like Jack Ryan evading terrorists through the streets of Instanbul. Scott doesn’t portend much drama.
The GOP is the party of 60% drama junkies. DeSantis needs better writers.
AJ_Liberty (3e5304) — 6/3/2023 @ 5:53 amIf the ruler lacks virtue, the land suffers.
Trump is not a David. He is an Ahab, and I don’t mean the man from Nantucket.
Pragmatic cynicism is all good and fine, but Dostoyevsky’s Grand Inquisitor gave up on the salvation of his flock’s souls not for his own aggrandizement but for the preservation of his Church.
Trump is only about his own aggrandizement even if he destroys America.
nk (07fcb3) — 6/3/2023 @ 6:15 amnk (07fcb3) — 6/3/2023 @ 6:15 am
Great comments this morning, and i used almost all my down-time reading, so I will reply only to nk.
nk (07fcb3) — 6/3/2023 @ 6:15 am
Do you ever get tired of knocking the ball out of the park?
felipe (70468a) — 6/3/2023 @ 8:47 amTo draw votes away from De Santis, just as the other Lilliputians are doing.
Rip Murdock (ce8d2c) — 6/3/2023 @ 10:43 amWhy Republican Primary National Polls Are Important Now:
The RCP average of national polls currently lists six candidates as polling above 1 percent in national surveys: Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Mike Pence, Vivek Ramaswamy, and Tim Scott.
Rip Murdock (ce8d2c) — 6/3/2023 @ 11:08 amMorning Consult Republican Primary National Tracking Poll-May 31, 2033
Rip Murdock (ce8d2c) — 6/3/2023 @ 12:06 pm