Jury Finds Trump Liable For Sexual Abuse, Not Rape
[guest post by Dana]
The verdict:
A New York jury on Tuesday found former President Donald Trump liable for sexually abusing writer E. Jean Carroll in a Manhattan department store in the 1990s, but not liable for her alleged rape.
The jury awarded her $5 million in damages for her battery and defamation claims.
Asked on their verdict sheet if Carroll, 79, had proven “by a preponderance of the evidence” that “Mr. Trump raped Ms. Carroll,” the nine-person jury checked the box that said “no.” Asked if Carroll had proven “by a preponderance of the evidence” that “Mr. Trump sexually abused Ms. Carroll,” the jury checked the box that said “yes.” Both allegations were elements of Carroll’s battery claim.
The six men and three women also found Trump had defamed her by calling her claims a “hoax” and “a con job.”
Trump reacts to the verdict:
Sexual Abuser Donald Trump chimes in. pic.twitter.com/DZFUIZErap
— MeidasTouch (@MeidasTouch) May 9, 2023
Question: Does CNN rethink hosting its Trump forum tomorrow night in light of the leading Republican candidate, who has already been proven unfit for office, and now found liable for sexual abuse, or do they stay the course for ratings gold? Pretty sure we already know the answer.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (560c99) — 5/9/2023 @ 1:02 pmAlternatively, does Trump go ahead with the town hall knowing he will be questioned (multiple times) about it?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 1:13 pmI edited my above comment a little in the post for a smoother read.
Dana (560c99) — 5/9/2023 @ 1:17 pm@3. Hope you’re feeling better, Dana. Take it easy.
______
Not guilty of rape. Too bad she waited 20 years for the political hit… Kavanaugh will have a beer or ten tongiht… a similar bullet didged.
But Americans do love their b-a-a-a-a-d boys. Watch when Trump’s poll numbers spike.
… and JR Ewing smiled.
DCSCA (926343) — 5/9/2023 @ 1:23 pmDCSCA — I don’t see his numbers spiking. Rather they will remain pretty steady. They spiked with the indictment in New York. (Which I think was the intent — Trump being perceived as the weakest the GOP has to offer.)
I hope the plaintiff gets paid well. She isn’t going to get any other satisfaction out of this.
Appalled (03f53c) — 5/9/2023 @ 1:36 pmWe are all so very screwed.
Simon Jester (ca4340) — 5/9/2023 @ 1:48 pmP.S. I hope you are feeling better, healthwise, Dana.
I am shaking my head about the state of the health of our nation, however.
And I am saddened by some of the comments here, of course.
Simon Jester (ca4340) — 5/9/2023 @ 1:56 pmTrump Before the Verdict:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 2:03 pmA slight paraphrase of a great commercial:
“There is a witch in the woods. For some people, the witch is easy to see. Others don’t see it at all. Some people say the witch is benign. Others say it’s vicious and dangerous. Since no one can really be sure who’s right, isn’t it smart to hunt the witch? If there is a witch.”
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/9/2023 @ 2:05 pm@5. It’s only been a few hours. Wait and see… the Access Hollywood tape didn’t torpedo him in 2016 when it would have sunk anybopdy. [Then again, p[;agiarism should have sunk Biden but the press gave him a pass] — and again, more people voted for Trump in 2020 than in 2016. So populism remains at a boil. His ‘Bad Boy’ image is baked in– and this is in character, tinged as a political hit today. To many, a ‘Notorious Donald’ will keep Xi and Vlad on their toes and spook NorKo to boot. It’s a civil case, not criminal; only money. Thing is, if Carroll was so distressed, she should have filed rape charge 20 years ago, too… which only makes it look more political than a pursuit of justice. If only she’d ‘shot JR’ on Fifth Avenue… 😉
DCSCA (77e1e7) — 5/9/2023 @ 2:09 pm@9. Classic Hal Riney. An advertising icon from the golden age of BBDO and Ogilvy greatness.
DCSCA (77e1e7) — 5/9/2023 @ 2:14 pm@6
:'(
I pray that Trump loses the primary. Bigly.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/9/2023 @ 2:45 pmI get the defamation claim.
But I’m not sure how to square this…
How could the jury find Trump liable for sexually abusing and forcibly touching Carroll but NOT for rape?
So they believed HALF HER STORY and agreed she was lying about the rest?
o.O
Trump certainly didn’t do himself any favors in this court/jury with his flippant deposition. That’s on him.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/9/2023 @ 3:04 pm“I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHO THIS WOMAN IS. THIS VERDICT IS A DISGRACE – A CONTINUATION OF THE GREATEST WITCH HUNT OF ALL TIME!”
There was this little boy who liked to cry “wolf”…
norcal (15fce4) — 5/9/2023 @ 3:31 pmHow could the jury find Trump liable for sexually abusing and forcibly touching Carroll but NOT for rape?
whembly (d116f3) — 5/9/2023 @ 3:04 pm
They found that Trump couldn’t keep it up. 😉
norcal (15fce4) — 5/9/2023 @ 3:44 pmTrump was found not guilty of rape but guilty for denying it. The jury awarded money to the false accuser.
If only George Orwell could have seen this.
BTW I despise Trump and want him to go away.
DN (1b635a) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:02 pmIn other court news today, George Santos has been criminally charged by DOJ, but they’re under seal for now.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:17 pmI’m looking forward to Trump defaming Carroll again on national television. He can’t help himself.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:30 pmThe situation is impossible. How does one determine the truth? But the standard is more likely than not.
They determined it was more improbable that she was making it up, than that the alleged incident happened as claimed in spite of the fact that it supposedly took place in a store where anybody could go..it would have been like Trump knew the store and what went on there.
They just determined that to say she was lying was more improbable than that Trump had done it although both versions of events were improbable. Her two witnesses who claimed she told them (separately) about then that something happened were crucial, because now to say otherwise you have to allege a conspiracy and Trump could not show that the two witnesses were lying. Trump also did not find anyone who said she had been asked to lie or any proof it was wrong. While he did find a little indication that it might have been cooked up, it was unclear.
This specific verdict (that it was not rape) was probably based on her not reacting too much, and one of her witnesses saying that she told her that she was raped — indicating doubt as to what it was.
It would help to know more about the testimony.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:32 pmMore:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:35 pmIt was claimed that that Trump was lying in the Access Hollywood tape about women letting him do things to them but not about doing it – well he actually only claimed that he kissed them by surprise.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:35 pmHow could the jury find Trump liable for sexually abusing and forcibly touching Carroll but NOT for rape?
Time. Waiting 20-plus years to ‘cry rape’ makes her motives somewhat suspect. [Pop a sixth brewski, Kavanaugh!] Who lets themselves endure that personal torture for over two decades then decides it’s time to ‘get her life back.’ The political stench is ovewrwhelming. But it won’t take him out of the race.
DCSCA (77e1e7) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:35 pmMore II:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:36 pmSen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.) told CBS, “I don’t think he can get elected.”
Memo to Johnny Boy: You don’t think, period. Don’t you have some dead Americans murdered in Texas to focus on, ‘senator?”
DCSCA (77e1e7) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:38 pmNot found guilty, found liable for for denying it, and only that it was more likely than not that the assault happened, probably because E Jean Carroll had two witnesses who were not destroyed on cross examination.
We may later find out who was telling the truth.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:39 pmIn a statement, Hutchinson said the verdict “should be treated with seriousness and is another example of the indefensible behavior of Donald Trump.”
Plagiarizing 2016 loser Ted Cruz, eh Asa.
DCSCA (77e1e7) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:40 pmJury Verdict Form
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:40 pmAnd why was she fired by a publication that was probably not aimed at people sympathetic to Trump?
Did she change her story at any time after she first started claiming this? (and Trump’s lawyers fail to find that out)
This has so many possible political motives (as well as economic) it is not a normal situation
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:44 pmHow could the jury find Trump liable for sexually abusing and forcibly touching Carroll but NOT for rape?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:46 pm@26. Thank you for reminding me about the filter.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:50 pmEnough is enough. Or at least you would think so. Satan has Trump’s soul, but why does everyone else think they should toss theirs in, too.
The candidates need to form a common response to this piece of dreck.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:55 pmMcCarthy is staring at the short end of stick. He can’t afford to lose another Republican.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:58 pm@33. You’re welcome, considering he’s quick to comment on Trump while Texas authorities remain mum on the slaughterfest in his state.
DCSCA (77e1e7) — 5/9/2023 @ 4:59 pm@34. Enough is enough. Or at least you would think so. Satan has Trump’s soul, but why does everyone else think they should toss theirs in, too. The candidates need to form a common response to this piece of dreck.
ROFLMAO– just like 2016 Ted Cruz and Little Marco, eh… both now so far up Trump’s tail, The Donald could claim he’s being gang raped!
DCSCA (77e1e7) — 5/9/2023 @ 5:05 pmList of federal political sex scandals in the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_sex_scandals_in_the_United_States
DCSCA (77e1e7) — 5/9/2023 @ 5:10 pmIf you look at the Republican candidates as being a spectrum with Trump at one end and Hutchinson at the other, they all gravitate toward Trump. DeSantis and Vivek are closer in politics to Trump, and Darling Nikki wants to be Trump’s VP, so she won’t be saying anything negative. Hutch is all by his lonesome.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 5:12 pmThe thing is, that Trump wants everything to be about Trump.
Look a the pussy-grabbing tape, for example. He could have said that there are women who let men paw them in order to advance their careers in Hollywood.
But no! It had to be about him. They let him paw them because he’s a star.
And the thing about wanting everything to be about you is that everything about you better be able to withstand scrutiny. Which MacSitzpinkler does not.
nk (bb1548) — 5/9/2023 @ 5:38 pmThis is just the beginning of a whole new world of lawfare against candidates, office holders, judges etc.
steveg (08310c) — 5/9/2023 @ 5:38 pmNo one is squeaky clean and they will all get the Eric Greitens treatment. The St Louis Circuit didn”t go after him because he was a bad guy, they went after him because of his politics and lied to make a better case and still lost. Trumps is not a good person, but this never would have gone anywhere in Tulsa
He Needs the Vote:
Of course Santos isn’t on any committees, so that point is moot.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 5:48 pmDo you believe that is what is happening to George Santos?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 5/9/2023 @ 5:49 pmIf only there were a way to capitalize capital letters, I’m sure Trump would use it.
He missed his calling. He should have been a pro wrestler.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/9/2023 @ 5:54 pmThe people who care don’t matter to trump and the people who matter to trump don’t care.
asset (ee30dd) — 5/9/2023 @ 5:57 pmMcCarthy is right about Santos. Santos is entitled to trial by due process. Not trial by news media.
nk (bb1548) — 5/9/2023 @ 6:02 pmFWIW, here’s what the Loser’s first wife claimed, under oath:
And then retracted, sort of.
Skeptics will wonder about her motives both under oath, and later. Under oath she may have been trying for a bigger settlement; later she may have been hoping for bigger inheritances for her kids.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/9/2023 @ 6:03 pmAll we have are the jury’s findings, and there’s no basis in those findings for that conclusion. Failing to find by a preponderance of the evidence that he raped her isn’t remotely the same as finding that half her story was a lie.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/9/2023 @ 6:43 pmTrump’s doing a NH Town Hall on CNN Wed., night so we can see how he plans to field this 24 hours after the verdicts…. assuming Collins asks about it… unless breaking news about The Joe Show takes over the news cycle.
DCSCA (1bba31) — 5/9/2023 @ 6:44 pmI don’t think this will matter to anyone other than E. Jean Carroll. Most people already were pretty sure that Trump had probably placed unwelcome hands on women and everyone everyone knows that he defames people, it’s a feature, not a bug, for his voters.
Maybe it might matter for women who used to read her advice column, but most women don’t like him much already.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/9/2023 @ 7:08 pm@50. Yep.
DCSCA (33b1fb) — 5/9/2023 @ 7:29 pmfor twenty seven years I guess Ms. Carroll thought Trump was a Democrat
JF (bd852a) — 5/9/2023 @ 7:40 pmJF (bd852a) — 5/9/2023 @ 7:40 pm
That would have more resonance if Trump had been a Democrat holding office.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/9/2023 @ 7:45 pmWord. But I know you realize the humanity and probably deep loneliness that is at root of some of the trolling.
Dustin (58f2f0) — 5/9/2023 @ 7:49 pmNot here.
Rip Murdock (479f9d) — 5/9/2023 @ 8:08 pmRip regarding your question to me about George Santos, my answer is yes, there are times when full inspection is warranted, but also believe that politics are very much in play with Santos. I brought up Greitens. He cheated on his wife, that was a piece of S move on his part. But the Democrat machine lied and lied to try to turn that infidelity into a crime. what is next, a civil suit against Kavanaugh? It won’t go anywhere because Kavanaugh is too bright to defame an accuser, but I think this is going to be the next craze (y) in American politics. I blame Trump and myself a bit for my vote. I’d do it again given the choice, but the Democrats and Republicans gave me a choice of herpes D or Herpes R and now I need a pharmacist
steveg (08310c) — 5/9/2023 @ 8:33 pmDustin-
This part of your comment resonated with me. Caused me to look into the mirror and instead of my face, saw a window into the worst part of me
“I know you realize the humanity and probably deep loneliness that is at root of some of the trolling.”
Thank you.
You and Simon both struck a chord in me today, and that is good on you both
steveg (08310c) — 5/9/2023 @ 8:39 pmI think Santos’s prevarications brought the DOJ’s attention to himself. It will be interesting to see what the exact charges are tomorrow.
Is the solution to give politicians a pass to avoid the appearance of a political prosecution by the opposite party?
Rip Murdock (f90b1e) — 5/9/2023 @ 8:55 pm“… Her two witnesses who claimed she told them (separately) about then that something happened were crucial, because now to say otherwise you have to allege a conspiracy and Trump could not show that the two witnesses were lying. ..”
You don’t have to allege a conspiracy, a defense scenario might be as follows. Long ago a troubled woman seeking something (attention? sympathy?) tells a made up story about Donald Trump to some friends. She is urged to go to the police but refuses because she fears the story won’t stand up. No one cares too much until Trump is elected President. Then political opponents of Trump push the story. At this point the passage of time has made the story hard to dispute.
In general if you made a list of the Americans most likely to be falsely accused of something like this I expect Trump would be in the top ten.
James B. Shearer (b259c8) — 5/9/2023 @ 9:07 pm@James@59 OTOH, if you made a list of the Americans most likely to be accurately accused of something like this, I expect Trump would be in the top 10 of that list as well. In addition, Trump made an ill conceived recorded statement that he did similar things and then, after saying she wasn’t his type, misidentified her as Marla Maples, who I think we all know definitely was his type.
I would say that Trump is not the famous person in New York in the 90s who would’ve garnered the most attention with a fantasy sexual assault accusation. JFK jr would’ve been the right person for that. Trump has been gross for at least 30 years at this point.
Nic (896fdf) — 5/9/2023 @ 9:19 pm@9 I could change the word witch to republican and you could to democrat. Still want to hunt?
asset (ee30dd) — 5/9/2023 @ 9:30 pmBiden is under 36% of voters who think he is not senile. 30% of democrats prefer bobby kennady jr. or marianne williamson. If someone on the left gets in the democratic primaries with name recognition like AOC biden is toast. No one under 30 wants biden to run and few under 40. Anybody got a suggestion on who should run on the left besides AOC and bernie?
asset (ee30dd) — 5/9/2023 @ 9:37 pmBiden is under 36% of voters who think he is not senile. 30% of democrats prefer bobby kennady jr. or marianne williamson.
There’s an idea: Trump versus Marianne Williamson. One debate at Mar-a-Lago, one at Sedona.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/9/2023 @ 9:54 pmIn general if you made a list of the Americans most likely to be falsely accused of something like this I expect Trump would be in the top ten.
In general if you made a list of the Americans most likely to be guilty of something, I’d expect Trump to be at the top of the list.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/9/2023 @ 10:08 pmThank you, Dustin and steveg. You are both quite correct.
Simon Jester (ca4340) — 5/9/2023 @ 10:32 pm“I would say that Trump is not the famous person in New York in the 90s who would’ve garnered the most attention with a fantasy sexual assault accusation. …”
The accusation didn’t make it into the legal process until after he was elected President and if he had never been elected (or run) I doubt it would have been pursued.
James B. Shearer (b259c8) — 5/10/2023 @ 5:21 am@14
OMG norcal, literally spat out my coffee!
Well done!
whembly (d116f3) — 5/10/2023 @ 6:04 amHey, stars get to do what they want….for like a million years. So, suck it. I suspect that deposition might not have been as Rico Suave as the deposed might think.
AJ_Liberty (6f3cdc) — 5/10/2023 @ 6:05 amTrump doesn’t deserve sympathy, even if you think Carroll’s claim was all bs.
The fact that Trump didn’t treat this case, judge and juries with any serious dignity likely poisoned the jury against him. He’s his worst enemy.
whembly (d116f3) — 5/10/2023 @ 6:15 amThe jury did not need to find rape in order to grant the plaintiff full recovery, so my guess is that they did not want to waste their time like commenters on a blog, arguing endlessly “he did not hit her”, “he did not threaten her”, “he did not restrain her”, “he did not chase her when she ran away”, etc., etc., etc..
nk (bb1548) — 5/10/2023 @ 6:17 amTrump’s superpower is to fuse his sense of grievance with the sense of grievance of his voters. This is another chapter in a long ugly story. Whether this peels away some of his women voters, should they choose to think about it, is a question.
Appalled (fe9221) — 5/10/2023 @ 6:50 am30+ yr-old accusations really strain due process. Still, it looks bad when your primary defense is, in effect, “she’s ugly and not my type”, then confusing her for your ex-wife Marla in a photo. The justice system shouldn’t be about good or bad karma, though simply believability plays into it. It you cultivate a certain reputation, it does follow you; however, I think matters like this should have a much tighter statue of limitations.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/10/2023 @ 7:28 amI think matters like this should have a much tighter statue of limitations.
They did. Generally, two years for personal injury. That’s why Carroll initially filed for defamation and not the assault itself. Then the New York city council extended the statute for sexual assault. Especially for Trump. And Carroll could join her personal injury claim to the defamation case.
New York’s SLAPP statute, pathetic as it is (was?), is also due to Trump. Or Roy Cohn. They would sue people who objected to Trump’s real estate developments before the planning board, or zoning board, or housing authorities.
nk (bb1548) — 5/10/2023 @ 7:39 amBoy, do I have some news for you when it comes to appellate review of criminal cases and inconsistent verdicts. There’s plenty of people who will be in jail for the rest of their lives notwithstanding completely inconsistent and nonsensical verdicts.
(Short answer: consistency isn’t required because jurors can decide, for example, that leniency or mercy is warranted).
JohnnyAgreeable (6824f0) — 5/10/2023 @ 7:42 amnk (bb1548) — 5/10/2023 @ 7:39 am
The New York State legislature. It created a 1-year window for old cases (plus putting the statute of limitations permanently at 5 years after a person’s 18th birthday for allegations about something that took place before a person was 18 years old. I’m actually not quite clear on what was civil or criminal, but for this lawsuit there was a special one year window created.
Possibly, behind the scenes but it wasn’t advertised that way I think.
The Wall Street Journal main editorial today says.Carroll was “coaxed to file a civil lawsuit by longtime opponents of Mr. Trump, including lawyer George Conway” and that it was financed by LinkedIN founder Reid Hoffman who is a longtime Trump opponent.
That doesn’t indicate, by itself, that any of the testimony was perjured, but this was almost cookie cutter: Allegation backed up only by witnesses who were allegedly told the story contemporaneously, and some similar allegations (booth of which I have thought were untrue – I think there’s even a question about whether Braniff had such a flight in 1979)
Sammy Finkelnan (ef91cc) — 5/10/2023 @ 8:22 am“That’s why Carroll initially filed for defamation”
It all seems like a backdoor way to litigate the assault. Make a public claim of rape which will inevitably draw a reaction from Trump, but almost more importantly, from Trump world…which creates the defamation harm. Not at all to defend Trump, but it seems implausible that he would not respond publicly to the accusation when specifically asked. Of course calling her a whack job might not have been in his best interest…
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/10/2023 @ 8:26 amAJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 5/10/2023 @ 7:28 am
Also that he didn’t know her (which Trump keeps saying in the present tense) because E. Jean Carroll says it started when Trump was leaving the store and she was entering it and he recognized her, and asked her to help choose a gift for a female friend. She also says she expected to get Trump to try on women’s lingerie.
Trump also seems to have described an interview that Carroll had on CNN incorrectly, albeit he qualified.
commercial break.
Sammy Finkelnan (ef91cc) — 5/10/2023 @ 8:32 amOnly gold-diggers who tell him they love him and that he’s a great lover for cold hard cash are Trump’s type. He’s probably never had a woman who was not store-bought. Even as a teenager, his daddy would hire escorts to go out with him.
nk (bb1548) — 5/10/2023 @ 8:42 amThere was also the question of why she saved the alleged dress she was allegedly wearing at the time , which she says she never wore again, but it apparently had nothing on it. Trump initially opposed, but them too late, probably in an effort to delay the trial, asked for testing.
https://www.newsweek.com/will-e-jean-carrolls-dress-revealed-trumps-deposition-1753240
Sammy Finkelnan (b048d2) — 5/10/2023 @ 8:46 amTrump’s been trying to say the jury came from the most anti-Trump area. But this was a lawsuit filed in federal court, and most of the jury was from Westchester. (How did this get into federal court? Diversity jurisdiction?)
Sammy Finkelnan (b048d2) — 5/10/2023 @ 8:53 am@41. Institutional betrayal; the DOJ: corrupt; the SCOTUS, wholly politicized; the rule of law: dead.
39 years ago, a KGB defector chillingly predicted modern America
https://bigthink.com/the-present/yuri-bezmenov/
… and Putin smiled; Xi merely grinned… as the Eurasian Alliance with New World Order marching orders rolls on.
DCSCA (f71000) — 5/10/2023 @ 9:01 amNic (896fdf) — 5/9/2023 @ 9:19 pm
It depends on the age of the person making the accusation. E. Jean Carroll is now 79, (born in 1943) about three years older than Donald Trump.
JFK Jr was born in November, 1960 and would have been about 35 years old to her 52 at the time and Trump’s 49. Trump’s promiscuity, which caused his divorce, had been written about since around 1987.
This event, according to E. Jean Carroll, took place on a Thursday (which was the day of the week Bergdorf Goodman was open late, it seems) between I think November 1995 and the spring of 1996 – thus 27 to 28 years ago.
he story depends on Trump knowing the 6th floor was usually empty of customers and sales clerks at that time – or E. Jean Carroll knowing that.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 5/10/2023 @ 12:41 pmA lying, ugly whack job.
The implausibility of restraining himself from defaming someone who accuses him of the kind of assault he proudly admits to in the Access Hollywood tape is an ironic twist for someone who wants to weaken the constitutional barriers to defamation suits.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 5/10/2023 @ 2:33 pmI have to say that Donald Trump is a gift to thriller writers everywhere. In the past they had to treat high government officials has being sane and thoughtful. Now, nearly anything works.
Movie people, too. No longer do they have to find an E.G. Marshall type to play a mythical president. Not even Marin Sheen. Charlie will do just fine.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/10/2023 @ 2:34 pmTHIS VERDICT IS A DISGRACE
It is actually.
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/10/2023 @ 2:38 pmGoogle “Sherman Adams”
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/10/2023 @ 2:47 pmOoops, wrong thread
Kevin M (f94f4f) — 5/10/2023 @ 2:47 pmwhembly (d116f3) — 5/10/2023 @ 6:04 am
Thanks, whembly. I was wondering if readers would understand the joke.
norcal (15fce4) — 5/10/2023 @ 3:41 pmBecause she testified with certainty that he penetrated her with his fingers but she was not certain whether he also penetrated her with his penis.
DRJ (fda1b5) — 5/10/2023 @ 4:39 pm@83. … and Joan Crawford smiled… as Kavanaugh popped another cold one.
DCSCA (ba5f86) — 5/10/2023 @ 4:50 pmAnd now, a word from French Whine Country:
“I hope the jury of the American people reach the same conclusion about Donald Trump… He just is not suited to be president of the United States and to be the person who we hold up to our children and the world as the leader of the free world.”- Pierre Delecto.
So tell us, Lucky Pierre, where are your suits made?
DCSCA (ba5f86) — 5/10/2023 @ 7:01 pmHey, same here my friend. We all have the dark side in us, we all need validation, we all are capable of being stupid or evil. That’s what makes patience or kindness so good. It’s totally optional, as is introspection. I try not to judge, but everyone who comments here knows how often I fail. All we know about eachother are our words on eachothers’ screens, and that’s not who any of us actually are.
Dustin (671a82) — 5/10/2023 @ 7:18 pm