Patterico's Pontifications

5/5/2023

“Or Fortunately”

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:36 pm



Historically, says Donald Trump, stars like him have been able to grab women by the pussy. Unfortunately . . . or fortunately.

This clip was played for the jury during the testimony of a woman who alleges Trump forcibly grabbed her and kissed her.

I don’t think the jury will like that.

62 Responses to ““Or Fortunately””

  1. Yup. That’s what he actually said.

    Patterico (78b198)

  2. I’m so proud of the Republican party.

    Simon Jester (ff9c91)

  3. …depending on whether you are looking at it from the woman’s * point of view. or the man’s.

    —————-
    * or perhaps the point of view of civilization, since Donald Trump says that they willingly consent (once the celebrity begins)

    Here we see both Donald Trump’s propensity to backtrack or take both sides, and his tendency to justify anything he said. He said it was “locker room talk”, i.e. false, but he has to go and say he was right.

    Of course what he says in the Access Hollywood tape is not the same thing E. Jean Carroll describes and her lawyer obscures the difference by only quoting the first art of Trump’s statement..

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  4. “Or fortunately”??

    What the hell!

    Dana (560c99)

  5. ooooof.

    Not a good look Donny.

    whembly (d116f3)

  6. @3. …depending on whether you are looking at it from the woman’s * point of view. or the man’s. * or perhaps the point of view of civilization, since Donald Trump says that they willingly consent (once the celebrity begins)

    Meow! Thing is, his response was essentially correct regarding the celebrity ‘star treatment’ lore… For example: ‘it was Joan Crawford’s habit of sleeping with her co-stars and directors and using her body to get better angles and more screen time that once led Bette Davis to remark that Crawford “slept with every male star at MGM except Lassie,” and also made Crawford constant fodder for the gossip rags at the time. In an era when sexuality was one of women’s most powerful tools — especially in a male-dominated industry like Hollywood — Crawford’s approach to sex often took the men (and rumored women) in her life by surprise. Especially when she would invite them someplace and then show up naked, or “recast” her leading man with a new hot thing… Offscreen, Crawford used her sexuality going all the way back to her teen years, when she danced in a Chicago club under the name Lucille LeSueur and reportedly slept with her stepfather. And it was a trait that stuck with her all the way through her career, right up until her death in 1977. Although her trysts, associations and marriages were too numerous to list in full, here are a few of her more notable flings and relationships: Douglas Fairbanks Jr., Clark Gable, Franchot Tone, Spencer Tracy, Jackie Cooper, Phillip Terry, Jeff Chandler, Kirk Douglas, Alfred Steele, John Ireland, Vincent Sherman, Robert Aldrich, Jack Warner…’

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/feud-joan-crawfords-hollywood-romances-984720/

    DCSCA (be2aad)

  7. No doubt President Joe Biden will address this verbal disrepect toward women at his self-announced major press conference today… or will he?

    Biden Shocks Media By Announcing ‘Major Press Conference’ — Turns Out He Was Talking About An MSNBC Interview

    President Joe Biden mistakenly told members of the White House press corps that he would be holding a press conference later on Friday, confusing it with an interview he is set to have with MSNBC’s Stephanie Ruhle.

    “I’m doing a major press conference this afternoon, so I love you all but I’d like to ask you to leave so we can get down to business,” said Biden after speaking to reporters about April’s jobs report and forthcoming debt limit negotiations with Republicans. Reporters continued to harangue Biden after he asked them to leave the room and Biden doubled down, responding to their myriad questions by declaring, “We’ll get a chance to talk about all of those things, I promise you.” CNN’s John King observed that a presidential press conference came as “news to us” as well as the rest of the American press before promising to “get you more information on that as we get it.”… Biden has held the fewest number of press conferences during his first two years in office since Ronald Reagan.

    “Despite his press secretary pledging that Mr. Biden would ‘bring transparency and truth back to the government,’ in his first two years, the president granted the fewest interviews since Mr. Reagan’s presidency: only 54. (Donald J. Trump gave 202 during the first two years of his presidency; Barack Obama gave 275),” noted the New York Times’s Michael Shear last month.’ – https://www.mediaite.com/politics/biden-touts-non-existent-major-press-conference-in-confusion-over-msnbc-interview/

    DCSCA (be2aad)

  8. Wow, that’s nasty. Trump should drop out and just go away.

    Then a good clean Republican like DeSantis could take over, who the same folks oppose.

    JF (529073)

  9. “Or fortunately”??

    What the hell!

    Dana (560c99) — 5/5/2023 @ 1:57 pm

    Exactly. It was a flex.

    norcal (15fce4)

  10. All Bluster:

    Hours after former President Donald Trump told reporters in Ireland that he’d fly back to New York to “confront” E. Jean Carroll in her civil rape and defamation case against him, his attorney emphatically denied to a federal judge that his client would testify.

    “I know you understand what I am dealing with,” Trump’s attorney Joe Tacopina told Senior U.S. District Judge Lewis Kaplan during a sidebar conference on Thursday.
    ………….
    Just before Tacopina’s remark, Judge Kaplan made clear that he didn’t believe Tacopina was misleading him over his client’s decision.

    “I’m not implying dishonesty on your part,” Kaplan told Tacopina, according to the transcript.
    …………..
    Back in New York, Trump’s lawyer kept contradicting his client’s vow.

    “I am going to rest,” Tacopina said during sidebar. “I’m telling you right now, I’m going to rest.”
    …………
    Even though Tacopina followed through on that promise later that day, Carroll’s legal team said Trump’s unpredictability left them wondering whether they will need to prepare for cross-examination.

    “I wonder about the idea that we will be wondering of the possibility, all weekend, that he is going to come in and testify,” Ferrara said.

    “Mike, I just told you he is not,” Tacopina shot back.

    Judge Kaplan apparently remained unconvinced.
    ………….
    After the sidebar ended, Carroll’s lawyers rested the plaintiff’s case. The jury was excused for the weekend, and Trump’s attorney followed suit.

    “We rest, your honor,” Tacopina said — but that didn’t settle the matter.

    Judge Kaplan questioned him about that maneuver, asking whether Trump’s attorneys conveyed the legal consequences of waiving testimony in a civil case and communicated with him directly. Tacopina confirmed that he did speak to Trump, just “two minutes before I went into court this morning.” The judge left the door slightly ajar for the former president to change his mind.
    ………….
    The judge then gave Trump until Sunday afternoon to ask to reopen the case “for the purpose, and the sole purpose, of testifying as a witness in this case.”

    …………. Should the status quo hold, a jury will hear closing arguments on Monday.
    #########

    Rip Murdock (a1e7d1)

  11. Wow, that’s nasty. Trump should drop out and just go away.

    Then a good clean Republican like DeSantis could take over, who the same folks oppose.

    JF (529073) — 5/5/2023 @ 2:43 pm

    I don’t think any of the Republican candidates should drop out, I just think some shouldn’t (or couldn’t) win.

    Rip Murdock (a1e7d1)

  12. For years, I have a solution to the Trump problem:
    1. Trump should drop out of the presidential race.
    2. He should release Melania who, by now, has more than paid for her violation of immigrant work rules. (And I wouldn’t mind if she went back to Slovenia, taking her family with her.)
    3. He should turn over any money he has — assuming he has any — to an honorable trustee, with directions to return it to the people he has cheated over the years.
    4. He should join one of those monastic orders that require monks to take vows of poverty, chastitity, obedience — and silence.

    Of course I know that the chances of all that happening are somewhere around one in a trillion, or less — but it is fun to think about, anyway.

    And just imagine Trump’s reaction were someone to propose it to him.

    Jim Miller (0e46f9)

  13. “have had” a solution

    Jim Miller (0e46f9)

  14. I was much more likely to believe this type of testimony before the Kavanaugh hearings
    11 witnesses testified in Donald Trump’s rape trial. Here’s what they said

    All Bluster

    This is part of the reason I have a hard time with Trump. He’s all bluster, but when Trump is caught verbalizing on this tape, I am supposed to believe he’s not blustering

    steveg (3b0381)

  15. Of course I know that the chances of all that happening are somewhere around one in a trillion, or less — but it is fun to think about, anyway.

    As much fun as thinking about Kari Lake’s hairdo?

    BuDuh (eaef9b)

  16. Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/5/2023 @ 3:53 pm

    Jim, the first two are within the realm of possibility.

    I would believe in a talking dog before I believed in the latter two.

    norcal (15fce4)

  17. steveg (3b0381) — 5/5/2023 @ 3:56 pm

    His blustering is coming back to bite him; in retrospect, however, given the number of women willing to risk perjury charges through the years you’ve got to wonder if there’s smoke, there’s fire somewhere.

    Rip Murdock (b7d6fc)

  18. #17 norcal – I agree.

    Jim Miller (0e46f9)

  19. norcal – Some proud owners would say we already have talking dogs. For instance, one proud owner decided to show off his dog’s skills to a skeptic, by asking the dog these questions:

    “How does sandpaper feel?”
    “Ruff!”

    “What’s on top of a house?”
    “Roof!”

    “Who was the greatest home run hitter of all time?”
    “Roof!”

    (More seriously, trainers claim they have already taught a smart border collie more than 1000 words. It seems likely to me that such a dog could learn to say simple sentences, with the help of an electronic voice box of some sort.)

    Jim Miller (0e46f9)

  20. I don’t think the jury will like that.

    I think you can say that, yeah.

    nk (4958ea)

  21. Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 5/5/2023 @ 5:53 pm

    You ruined a perfectly good (and very old) joke.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  22. Interesting thread

    WHAT WE KNOW:
    1. Donald cut his trip short to return to the states.
    2. The Calamaris just testified in the documents case and they work for the Trump Org.
    3. DoJ subpoenaed Mar a Lago surveillance tapes last June.
    4. DoJ ALSO subpoenaed the tapes directly from the software company.
    5. There appear to be gaps in the tapes the Trump Org handed over.
    6. Corcoran was compelled to testify about a phone call he had with Donald the day the Trump Org got the surveillance tape subpoena.
    7. Nauta wouldn’t cooperate so he was investigated, & a text between him and a Calamari was found.
    8. Jack Smith has a cooperator in the documents case.
    9. Since arriving home, Donald has been losing his sh-t on Truth Social about the documents case & Obstruction of Justice.

    WHAT I THINK: DISCLAIMER: This is speculation:
    1. The DoJ informed Donald’s lawyers that he’s going to be charged with obstruction, so Donald came home early to prep for a meeting between DoJ and his lawyers to argue against indictment.
    2. The DoJ has developed evidence of additional documents at other properties pursuant to evidence from the LIV golf tournament or the cooperating witness and Donald came home to fight/negotiate another subpoena/search warrant.

    “Gaps” in the surveillance tapes is a real Nixonesque move and– because the software company have the unedited versions–amateur. I do expect Trump will get indicted for obstruction and for violating the Espionage Act, and the extent of his obstruction will be impressive. Refusing to return classified intel is serious business.
    One lingering question: We know about the sweetheart deal the Saudis made with Jared Kushner, but we don’t know how much they paid Trump to host two LIV golf tour events at his country clubs.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  23. Biden says son ‘has done nothing wrong’ ahead of possible federal charges

    President Biden said his son Hunter “has done nothing wrong” as he could soon be charged following a multi-year investigation into his business dealings. “First of all, my son has done nothing wrong,” he said in an interview with MSNBC’s Stephanie Ruhle on Friday evening. “I trust him. I have faith in him.” – https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3991332-biden-says-son-has-done-nothing-wrong-ahead-of-possible-federal-charges/

    “Yup. That’s what he actually said.” 😉

    DCSCA (a45012)

  24. #22 lurker – Thanks for that older version, which is better.

    Jim Miller (0e46f9)

  25. Something is said to have happened 1995 or 1996? Fake but accurate?

    Tape is from 2005? Blarney, braggadocio, liar, don’t trust a word he says…. Trump is fake and a phony, prone to outsized embellishment about everything, but this, this, is a window into his soul.

    There are people who actually made a decent living calling all things Trump blarney, braggadocio, liar, don’t trust a word he says…. Trump is fake and a phony, prone to outsized embellishment about everything and now they want us to believe that they unearthed the one true thing about him

    steveg (9d9333)

  26. Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/5/2023 @ 8:59 pm

    Yeah, Montagu, impeccable sourcing as usual

    Mueller She Wrote is a binder full of women unraveling the mysteries of the Mueller investigation. Join us each week as your hosts simplify the absurd amount of Mueller news and wrap it up into informative, hilarious bites. MSW is committed to separating the facts from conjecture with just the right amount of snark.

    @MuellerSheWrote 20-Apr-2023
    So the latest “controversy” is that a private citizen called a bunch of his private citizen friends who used to work for the government, and they all wrote a letter supporting Biden – and that’s election interference?

    keep scouring the left wing septic tank for more scoops

    JF (4acc4c)

  27. I know conservatives always cite left wing partisans for their objective remarks.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  28. Yeah, Montagu, impeccable sourcing as usual

    Just more ad hominem in lieu of a substantive response from the Trumpist wing. Tell me, JF, what facts did she get wrong?

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  29. Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 5/6/2023 @ 9:48 am

    oh, I dunno Montagu, maybe the facts that are speculation and not facts??

    and the supreme irony of a twitter account devoted to Mueller’s Trump with hunt investigation of election meddling that poops on actual for realz election meddling is obviously lost on you

    JF (4acc4c)

  30. Trump witch hunt obviously

    JF (4acc4c)

  31. oh, I dunno Montagu, maybe the facts that are speculation and not facts??

    That’s what you call a substantive response? Ha!

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  32. Was the ten year old dig at Romney what attracted you to the site, Montagu?

    Apparently his turn as a NeverTrumper wasn’t convincing enough to do an update.

    JF (e47da1)

  33. Come for the snark, stay for the lefty mincing…

    Colonel Haiku (c13251)

  34. You Trumpists sure take criticism of your Orange Savior personally.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  35. CHAZee!

    Colonel Haiku (c13251)

  36. “Gaps” in the surveillance tapes is a real Nixonesque move and– because the software company have the unedited versions–amateur.

    Moral: Run your own security AV storage and email servers. Back them up locally too. Then you can delete things and no one is the wiser (if you do i right). Hillary did, and it kept her out of prison.

    Kevin M (f94f4f)

  37. Just more ad hominem in lieu

    Attacking your source as biased is not ad hominum. If it seems like he’s saying YOU are biased by implication, well the shoe fits or it doesn’t, but it’s still not ad hominum

    Kevin M (f94f4f)

  38. You Trumpists sure take criticism of your Orange Savior personally.

    Now, THAT is an ad hominum. See the difference.

    Kevin M (f94f4f)

  39. Doubtless JFK and LBJ and Bill Clinton would say “fortunately”.

    Andrew (50c293)

  40. Ad hominem

    Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

    Yep, JF’s comment about Mueller She Wrote was just that.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  41. — The light is green
    — No, it’s red.
    — It looks green to me.
    — You’re color-blind, remember?
    — Oh, yeah, I forgot.

    It is ad hominem. And it is an argument. But it is not a rhetorical argument. Nobody is trying to reason out with logic whether the light is red or green. It is an argument about two statements of facts and which should be believed. Personally, I would believe the person who is not color blind.

    nk (3da6af)

  42. It also works with tomatoes.

    nk (3da6af)

  43. Yep, JF’s comment about Mueller She Wrote was just that.

    It attacked that of the information you posted, not you.

    If I posted something from Gateway Pundit, and you (rightly) said that was a crap site with lies, it would not be an ad hominum.

    adjective: ad hominem

    (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
    “vicious ad hominem attacks”

    adverb: ad hominem

    1.
    in a way that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
    “these points come from some of our best information sources, who realize they’ll be attacked ad hominem”

    (Google)

    Kevin M (f94f4f)

  44. And why is #35 NOT ad hominum?

    Kevin M (f94f4f)

  45. nk (3da6af) — 5/6/2023 @ 3:39 pm

    — the laptop is Russian misinformation
    — no, it’s real
    — it looks fake to me
    — you’re colorblind, remember?
    ad hominem

    JF (9688d4)

  46. “Ad hominum” is a form of logical fallacy. You suck, therefore your argument sucks. It may be actually true, but both parts have to be shown independently.

    Example: “Trump lies, therefore anything he says is false.” The “therefore” is the problem. Both statements may be independently true, but the first does not prove the second.

    Kevin M (f94f4f)

  47. Another republican traditiona family values pervert caught. Texas house to vote to expel bryan slaton for sexually assaulting intern.

    asset (f7677e)

  48. Another republican traditiona family values pervert caught. Texas house to vote to expel bryan slaton for sexually assaulting intern.

    The Democrats gave Gary Studds and Barney Franks standing ovations when they left Congress, despite both being involved in improper sexual incidents, Studds with underage male pages and Franks with a male prostitute boyfriend who was turning tricks in the Congressman’s house while he was away.

    But it’s OK because they despised family values, Christians, and Republcians in general, which makes them modern saints.

    Kevin M (f94f4f)

  49. @49 Republican family values are those of the manson family.

    asset (9a1394)

  50. Republican family values are those of the manson family.

    asset (9a1394) — 5/7/2023 @ 10:16 pm

    Come on, asset. You’re better than that.

    norcal (15fce4)

  51. Democrats avoid the question, altogether, by refusing to recognize either families or values. If this guy was a Democrat, Democrats would call it a “non-traditional” relationship. If even that.

    nk (bb1548)

  52. @51 bryan slaton another traditional family values republican resigns rather then be expelled for molesting intern. Its texas.

    asset (05cb31)

  53. This behavior is abnormal among Republicans and expected from Democrats. So it has shock value.

    Kevin M (f94f4f)

  54. This behavior is abnormal among Republicans and expected from Democrats.

    Do you have evidence to support that? In my admittedly anecdotal observation, the abundant history of politician sexual abuse scandals is decidedly bipartisan. I really wouldn’t bet a penny either way on which side has more.

    As for what’s abnormal and what’s expected, I seem to recall a poll showing that Democrats are less forgiving of sexual abuse by their side than Republicans are of theirs. It was a few years ago and I don’t remember it making big news so I doubt I can locate it, but if you want I’ll try.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  55. This behavior is considered abnormal among Republicans and expected from Democrats.

    FIFY. It’s because (at least until recently) the Republican Party emphasized traditional family values. Now, not so much.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  56. Clarifying fix:

    This behavior is considered abnormal among Republicans and expected from Democrats.

    FIFY. It’s because (at least until recently) the Republican Party emphasized traditional family values. Now, not so much.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  57. @56. Now? It was always GOP sucker bait. Gingrich, Dole even Reagan… etc., etc… hardly bastions of ‘tradition family values.’

    DCSCA (273a66)

  58. So, Trump is liable for sexual abuse (but not rape) and defamation, and the damages are $2 million and $3 million, respectively.
    I suspect Trump will appeal and lose.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  59. I suspect that “or fortunately” cost him.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  60. Not guilty of rape. Guilty of being a ba-a-a-a-a-d boy!

    And Americans do love their bad boys. Watch his poll numbers spike. Too bad she waited 20-plus years to make it an obviously political slam. Kavanaugh outta a have a beer or ten tonight for dodging a similar bullet…

    DCSCA (926343)

  61. Trump is now on record as a sexual abuser and slanderer.
    Good luck resuscitating that lack of character.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)


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