Trump in NYC: Open Thread (UPDATE ADDED)
[guest post by Dana]
Since the charges are still unknown, there really isn’t anything new to say. What we know at this point, however, is that the former president will turn himself in this afternoon and be charged in a Manhattan courtroom. Trump’s legal team has said that Trump will plead not guilty and will challenge “every potential issue”. Also, there will reportedly be no handcuffs or mug shot, as court officials and the Secret Service have deemed it unnecessary. Also, it was ruled by Judge Merchan that cameras will not be allowed in the courtroom, but a handful of pool reporters will be allowed to take still photos before the proceedings begin.
With that, I’ll leave you with a smart observation about the rule of law being undermined:
You hear it said in responsible quarters of the right that Democrats are undermining the rule of law by handing up an indictment of Donald Trump. Sure, they acknowledge, Trump has done terrible things, but by bringing this case, Democrats are twisting the law to get at one particular defendant, and that’s not the way things should work. Further, they argue, Democrats are inviting retaliatory lawsuits in the future and setting America on the path to banana republic status. These abuses, they urge, are just as dangerous, or perhaps more dangerous than what Republicans are saying and doing in Trump’s defense.
I beg to differ. The indictment by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg is risky, but nothing about it undermines the rule of law. The risks are political and prudential. The Republicans, by contrast, are chest-deep in contempt for law.
Read the whole thing.
UPDATE: This afternoon, Trump plead not guilty to 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. Also, while no gag order was imposed, Judge Merchan made it clear that he would consider it if it proved necessary. Judge Merchan also warned Trump and his legal team, and even opposing counsel to avoid posting anything on social media that could incite violence.
The indictment is here.
The Statement of Facts is here.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (1225fc) — 4/4/2023 @ 9:23 amSomehow, I doubt Ms. Charen will extend the same courtesy if a DA has President Obama arrested for murder.
https://www.aclu.org/video/aclu-ccr-lawsuit-american-boy-killed-us-drone-strike
I could be wrong.
Joe (a42613) — 4/4/2023 @ 9:37 amDoes Bragg prosecute ordinary crime in NYC? That wasn’t my impression. He has a policy of not prosecuting ordinary crime. (That is, the sort of crime that harms people.)
The Never Trump people have become Democrats, and so defend the behavior of the Democratic party as a matter of course. Crime is soaring in NYC, but so what? This was never about policy, anyway.
I think that some AUSA should zealously prosecute any Democratic staffers or campaign workers who use marijuana. Nobody is above the law, after all.
mikeybates (41a403) — 4/4/2023 @ 9:45 amI think Alvin Bragg actually believes in this case.
He was under too much pressure and his judgment, which wasn’t so great in the first place, gave way. Somebody “sold” this case to him.
He probably thinks he has new evidence that justifies why he did this when Cyrus Vance didn’t.
Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:07 amTrump’s motorcade left from Trump Tower via an unannounced route, but will probably use the FDR Drive, instead of local streets, to fake out potential attackers
Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:14 amNever forget, Mona Charen was one of the original ‘NeverTrumper’s” who essayed in the January 22, 2016 issue of National Review along w/other establishment ideologues opposing Mr. Trump’s run for the GOP nomination- which he eventually won and went on to win the presidency. Charen, along with others, like Bill Kristol, remains one of the many out-of-favor, rejected ideologues, ‘brushed out of the tail that no longer wags the dog’ by the GOP electorate and the relentless rise of populism, which now is the majority of that GOP base. And it keeps growing.
DCSCA (4bb51c) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:18 amDonald Trump arrived at Manhattan Criminal Court and waved to the cameras. He will go in through a side door and taken using the judge’s private elevator, to the 7th floor, where he will be arrested. Most of the courthouse has been cleared out especially the 15th floor,
After the proceedings, Donald Trump will head to the his plane at the airport and fly to Florida where he has scheduled a speech or statement for 8:15 pm.
We still don’t know more about the indictment except MC claims the case has lots of documents
Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:31 amThanks for letting me know the Bulwark will make any excuse to get Trump. I never woul’ve guessed that was the case.
When all you have is a hammer…
NJRob (25c545) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:33 amThe real longer term tragedy here for the U.S. is the partisan weaponizing of the tattered justice system for a political prosecution/persecution. [Can’t nail him at the ballot box or run a better candidate so nail him to a cross.] And that’s not particularly ‘exceptional’ to other lands around the globe. So much for the bravado of ‘American exceptionalism.’
… and the rest of the world smiled.
“Man, you’re just like the rest of us– ain’t ‘ya.” – Chief Bill Gillespie [Rod Steiger] ‘In The Heat Of The Night’ 1967
DCSCA (4bb51c) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:51 amIf you want to get charged by Alvin Bragg there are two brightly lit paths.
1. Disarm your attacker and turn the weapon on him.
“A New York City parking garage attendant was hit with an attempted murder charge after confronting an armed thief and wrestling the gun away before opening fire on the suspect.
The man then pulled a gun on Diarra, who attempted to grab the firearm. The gun was fired, leaving Diarra with a shot to the stomach and grazed in the ear by a bullet.
Diarra proceeded to turn the firearm on the potential thief and shot him in the chest.
Moussa Diarra, 57, is also charged with assault and criminal possession of a weapon in connection with the incident that occurred at around 5:30 a.m. Saturday morning.”
2. Political malfeasance by Republicans because its really hard to find corrupt Democrats in NYC?
Critique from the Trump burnishers at Vox:
Does it involve scrutiny and an investment of resources that would not have been put on anyone else? It’s hard for me to imagine that this years-long investment of resources into this topic would be brought against anyone other than Trump.
Do those bringing the case have obvious political motives? Bragg is an elected Democrat who, if he runs for another term, would be running in Democratic New York City. When he initially put the brakes on Vance’s investigation, he faced intense backlash from progressives who thought he was letting Trump off the hook. So, yes, he has a motive to get back on progressives’ good side.
A second Trump term, should he win, would probably also be quite dangerous for the rule of law.
steveg (d930cf) — 4/4/2023 @ 11:22 amMany liberals who have been hoping and arguing for Trump’s indictment seem to have this justification in mind, even if few will say it explicitly. In 2021, when it looked like Bragg’s predecessor, Vance, might bring charges, he was profiled in the New Yorker…
DCSCA,
Your average global citizen believes Donald Trump violated the law. Where they might be sniggering is that the best the US can come up with is hush money payments to Stormy Daniels. We will see if that is genuinely the case, or just clever Trump spin. If Bragg is any good, he has charged stuff that have nothing to do with Stormy, so that it can be put out there by a surprised media.
In the meantime, we can continue to be frustrated that all the other investigations are just piddling along — even the Georgia one that is backed up by tape recordings in the public domain. Love to know if our host has opinions on why it takes so long to bring someone like Trump to the courtroom? In fairness to the country, this should have been dealt with in 2021-2022.
Appalled (f5f6fe) — 4/4/2023 @ 11:24 amThe judge is getting ready to take the bench.
Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 11:39 am8. The Bulwark has seven possible investigation/crimes by Donald Trump.
Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 11:42 amEven though it was murder (and there was zero due process), Obama wouldn’t be charged for such an act because the strike was approved and executed by the Office of the President, not him personally.
I’m trying to bite my tongue until the indictment comes out.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/4/2023 @ 11:55 amSammy,
The Bulwark gets their funding by being NeverTrump. That’s their market.
NJRob (25c545) — 4/4/2023 @ 11:56 amNot any more.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 11:57 amThe phrase “Trump surrendered to authorities” must grate on his tender psyche.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:02 pmThe US has been the exception among Western democracies that don’t hold their former leaders accountable for crimes. South Korea (at least three presidents), France (two different presidents), Italy, Taiwan, Israel (one prime minister and one president), Peru (almost every president in the last 38 years), Argentina, Brazil, Iceland, and Japan come to mind.
America means never having to say you’re sorry.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:10 pmThe Bulwark gets their funding by being NeverTrump. That’s their market.
Indeed. This group now has a financial interest in Trump being in the news constantly. In addition, their readers, donors, and listeners are mostly Democrats, and so they will find a reason to oppose any Republican nominee for any office. (They opposed Youngkin, for example.) With DeSantis, if it wasn’t that he isn’t critical enough of Trump, it would have been that he is mean to Disney, or too pro-life, or supports education reform, etc., etc.
We see the same thing with someone like Evan McMullin- he became a Democrat to run for Senate in Utah, and promptly changed his view on abortion. Not unusual, of course, but jarring for someone in a group that loudly advertises itself as “principled” and criticizes anyone who disagrees as unprincipled.
mikeybates (41a403) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:11 pmCharen: ‘The antisemitic overtones of the “Soros-funded” meme did not inhibit Mike Pompeo or Elise Stefanik from repeating it.’
Soros is off limits now.
As I said in the other thread, in this race to the bottom my money is on NeverTrump.
JF (476a26) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:18 pm@11. Your average ‘global citizen’ believes Donald Trump violated the law. Where they might be sni[cker]ing is that the best the US can come up with is hush money payments to Stormy Daniels…
ROFLMAOPIP. This is a battle between the Establishment Royalists and the Populists. Certainly the French are chuckling- given their history of leaders and liaisons w/mistresses. And if a perception of ‘violating the law’ is your metric, then ‘your average global citizen’ also believes several U.S. presidents and their minions “violated the law”–
War Criminals Among Us: Bush, Cheney, and the Eyes of the World
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a35397/bush-cheney-war-crimes/
And, lest you forget, Clinton and the intern; Reagan and Iran Contra; Nixon and Watergate as well as his treason via Chennault [https://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason]; LBJ faking the Gulf of Tonkin incident; JFK’s sanctioned coup in 1963 in Vietnam that resulted in Diem’s death just weeks prior to his own assassination. Ike’s backing the CIA coup ousting the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953…
And in so far as why so long, the judicial system is far too bureaucratic, glacial and cavalier w/time. It is two tiered, to say the least: a NYT reporter grilled the WH just today on why the Biden administration won’t comment on the ‘on going’ Trump case yet had no problem commenting on the ‘on going’ Jan. 6 cases. It’s two tiered and it just sucks– as most Americans know. My own experience includes dealing four paper shuffling lawyers, an incompetent judge who does not read briefs prepared for him for a simple probate issue on a modest estate still in the courts after three years. This is what fuels populism.
DCSCA (b7dc65) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:20 pmfocusing on one Republican, while the world burns around them, is the hallmark of a NeverTrump hero
Terrifying rap sheets of the ten worst NYC criminals who were REPEATEDLY released by Manhattan DA Bragg as he focused on Trump indictment
JF (476a26) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:26 pm@18. Israel, too– Netanyahu; indicted and elected Israeli PM again.
DCSCA (b7dc65) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:36 pmThe day goes from bad to worse for Donald Trump:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:37 pmI am not watching television. What do we know? Anything?
All I have seen is: 34 charges, conspiracy, falsification, looks like it’s all about payoffs to women (?), Jr. posts the judge’s daughter’s pic on Twitter as part of a link to a Breitbart story arguing the judge is biased because his daughter has volunteered for Biden, no mugshot . . . what am I missing?
I have seen no indictment. If anyone finds it, please post it — although I assume it will be all over Twitter once it is public.
Patterico (e572ad) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:39 pmOh: here it is.
https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf
Patterico (e572ad) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:40 pmThey want to take it to trial in January, 2024– as primary season rolls out. Imagine that.
DCSCA (b7dc65) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:44 pmStatement of Facts. This is more interesting.
https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-SOF.pdf
Patterico (e572ad) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:45 pmThe only other arrest of a U.S. president involved a speeding horse.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:46 pmBragg is about to do a live TeeVee presser on this.
DCSCA (b7dc65) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:47 pmhttps://youtu.be/DCRyNREHe8M
The afterglow…
Colonel Haiku (ad4c64) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:48 pmI’m not familiar with all the dates on the whole Stormy Daniels thing — but this reads like 34 felony counts counts that track the payment of Stormy through Trump’s and the Trump organization’s financial records. (Is Karen McDougal included on this?). Love that Valentine’s Day, 2017 is a key date in all this.
Appalled (f5f6fe) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:50 pmKaren McDougal is indeed included.
Patterico (e572ad) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:53 pmThe funny thing to me is that Trump didn’t need to do any of this. He would have won the 2016 election anyway, and it wouldn’t have hurt him in 2020, either.
In other words, he overestimated the American people.
norcal (7b2be1) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:04 pm“He’s indicted and it feels so good!”
—- Peaches & Herb
Colonel Haiku (ad4c64) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:07 pmThere are any number of public officials who are immune to suit over how they do their job, and in some cases that immunity has led to severe miscarriages of justice. For a judge to talk about “no one is above the law” belies the judge’s immunity from suits over clearly wrongful actions on the bench, such as
knowingly ignoring</s, um, being mistaken about the law to the detriment of a defendant. I'm not aware of any judge imprisoned for being an asshat on the bench.In what the trial judge called the worst case of prosecutorial misconduct he'd ever seen, the federal prosecutors who hid exculpatory evidence and suborned perjury in the trial of the late Senator Ted Stevens were not charged with a crime. While the verdict was vacated, Stevens was defeated in an election immediately following, giving Barack Obama the 60th vote he needed to defeat any filibuster.
So, the Rule of Law is honored only sometimes and, for those covered by a presumption of immunity, citing it is comparable to a President wrapping himself in the flag and talking about Lincoln.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:08 pm“Hoping for more” is the wrong way to think about this, I guess. Expecting that the DA would have the judgment to realize that the salacious subject matter and mid-level criminality made this a dubious set of charges to bring against Trump might be the right way. Was there a concern about a looming statute of limitations deadline?
Appalled (f5f6fe) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:08 pmI miss the preview.
There are any number of public officials who are immune to suit over how they do their job, and in some cases that immunity has led to severe miscarriages of justice. For a judge to talk about “no one is above the law” belies the judge’s immunity from suits over clearly wrongful actions on the bench, such as knowingly ignoring, um, being mistaken about the law to the detriment of a defendant. I’m not aware of any judge imprisoned for being an asshat on the bench.
In what the trial judge called the worst case of prosecutorial misconduct he’d ever seen, the federal prosecutors who hid exculpatory evidence and suborned perjury in the trial of the late Senator Ted Stevens were not charged with a crime. While the verdict was vacated, Stevens was defeated in an election immediately following, giving Barack Obama the 60th vote he needed to defeat any filibuster.
So, the Rule of Law is honored only sometimes and, for those covered by a presumption of immunity, citing it is comparable to a President wrapping himself in the flag and talking about Lincoln.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:09 pmHa!
I said this in 2018:
Check out paragraph 9 of the Statement of Facts.
It was Trump.
Patterico (e572ad) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:11 pmRule of Law
Rule of Prosecutors
Americans are learning the difference
JF (1eb1ae) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:14 pmWas there a concern about a looming statute of limitations deadline?
Well, it’s hard to say since the statutory limit is 5 years, and these payments were made in October 2016, after Daniels demanded them of she’d hit him with an October surprise. (I assume that she got immunity for her extortion, a matter that will come up at trial.) So, normally October, 2021 would be the expiration.
But NY case law says that the statute is tolled every day that the culprit is out of state. Which Trump was for most of his presidency and most of the time afterwards, so it doesn’t seem like the statute was a major concern.
Maybe they were worried that too much delay might feed into arguments that the tolling was unreasonable in Trump’s case (his whereabouts where known at all times). We’ll see, as that argument is sure to be made.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:18 pmIf the tolling during his 4 years with presidential immunities would be more reasonable (an obvious fallback position for the DA) then October 2024 would be the limitation. Again no rush, and some might like the idea of charging him about then.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:22 pmIt’s surreal split screen television. Trump’s 757 soaring into the clouds on the right, Bragg speaking on the left. But one thing is certain about Bragg: he passed the NY State Bar… and every salad bar. 😉
DCSCA (b7dc65) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:25 pmStatement of Facts.
Statement of Allegations would be a better title. Trump actually gets a trial before any “facts” are found.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:26 pmHe was more afraid of Melania than the voters.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:27 pm“He’s indicted and it feels so good!”
—- Peaches & Herb
Colonel Haiku (ad4c64) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:07 pm
😁
norcal (7b2be1) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:31 pmHe was more afraid of Melania than the voters.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:27 pm
Even in that case, he didn’t need to do it. The tryst became public knowledge anyway, and Melania is still with him.
Perhaps he overestimated Melania as well.
norcal (7b2be1) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:33 pmThe Manhattan DA is suggesting a January 2024 trial date and Trump’s attorneys suggest April 2024. By that time Trump could be traveling between New York, Georgia, and DC for his trials.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:34 pmFALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE. Looks much more menacing when repeated in all caps. Falsifying business records in the first degree is underwhelming by comparison. My first pass guess at this? Trump is in worse trouble with Melania over Valentines Day 2017 than he is over the business records.
steveg (d930cf) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:41 pmI read the Statement of Facts and a couple pages of the indictment. I’m not seeing exactly what crimes were being concealed, or were attempting to conceal, and that’s what elevates Trump’s crimes to felonies, right? Anyone?
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:45 pmLet’s say that a candidate and the director of a PAC have early discussions about the PAC supporting him in the coming election and the candidate agrees that it would be helpful, but demands that they should reflect his official position statements and not put words in his mouth.
Would subsequent PAC-produced commercials that held to these restrictions be viewed as impermissible donations? Or does one have to show that the campaign participated in and/or controlled the production of some actual commercials?
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:46 pmYou predicted the media will be talking about her. Always trust content by Patterico.
DRJ (427e62) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:50 pm8. 13 The Bulwark has seven possible investigation/crimes by Donald Trump.
https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/all-the-trump-indictments-everywhere-all
That last one’s new to me.
Original source Bulwark article March 20 by Kimberly Wehle
https://www.thebulwark.com/the-trump-investigation-you-probably-havent-heard-about/
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:55 pmRic Grenell Calls on GOP Candidates to Drop Out, Endorse Trump After Indictment
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:57 pmNJRob (25c545) — 4/4/2023 @ 11:56 am
You can be honest and fair and NeverTrump, or you can be biased and dishonest.
Their funding may require them never to echo Democratic talking points ad maybe never criticize any Democrat for being dishonest.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:58 pmShe’s in it for the money.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:58 pmI see in the Statement that Patterico linked (thank you) the paragraph 9 that he feels shows some level of collusion, but doesn’t actually connect with any subsequent case. The allegation in paragraph 10 is similarly divorced from active campaign control.
In paragraph 11, there is some allegation of collusion, and in pp 12 – 15 a suggestion of active Trump involvement in the National Enquirer situation. However the campaign and Enquirer did not carry out the planned transaction, making this merely a conspiracy that was not actually executed. Trump actually falsified no documents here.
It will be interesting to see how they came to this belief. If it’s just Cohen, the tax felon and perjurer, it might be hard to convince a jury, especially since Cohen got a sweetheart deal on the tax charges in return for his story.
The rest of the recital concerns the Stormy mishegas, and all the charges in the indictment relate to this. Apparently, Trump is being charged for each of the $35,000 installments, along with the way they were reported by himself and by Cohen, as separate felonies ass in support of the same “illegal campaign contribution.”
While I don’t envy Trump’s chances in the J6 case(s) or the Fulton County case(s), I think that the defense has far better chances here.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:59 pmRic Grenell Calls on GOP Candidates to Drop Out, Endorse Trump After Indictment
He made the same call last week, and it’s why I think that DeSantis might want to stay out, at least for now. I think there’s only two GOP candidates of any note already in the race, and Asa Hutchinson entered the race after Trump’s indictment became likely. I doubt that Nikki Haley is going anywhere either.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:02 pmRip:
You should have quoted the awesome lack of coherence in your link. It’s something to behold:
Appalled (f5f6fe) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:03 pmKevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:18 pm
The underlying possible crime dates from about August 2015 to December 2016, but the falsifying of business records went on until nearly 2018.
So the five years ends about January, 2023.
34 nearly identical counts of falsifying business records in the first degree. New York County District Attorney says New York City is an important business center and falsifying records is serious. Also that telling the truth would have amounted confessing to a crime — he doesn’t say what crime.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:04 pmHe was more afraid of Melania than the voters.
I’m pretty sure the prenup covered this. Her divorcing Trump for any reason that aggravated assault would probably leave her penniless.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:05 pmThe Manhattan DA is suggesting a January 2024 trial date and Trump’s attorneys suggest April 2024. By that time Trump could be traveling between New York, Georgia, and DC for his trials.
He should demand a speedy trial. If he’s going to win one, it will be this one. Winning early will undermine the other prosecutions.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:06 pm51. Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:46 pm
In practice there’s a lot of leeway, or three quarters of all members of Congress and any presidential candidate who engaged in joint financing with a PAC would be under indictment.
But it’s hard to nail down collusion.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:08 pmNew York County District Attorney says New York City is an important business center and falsifying records is serious. Also that telling the truth would have amounted confessing to a crime — he doesn’t say what crime.
Well, that’s interesting. Is he being prosecuted for not confessing to a crime? Did the falsified records defraud anyone in the sense they relied upon the records for financial decisions?
Reasonable Doubt is all they need.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:10 pm* Her divorcing Trump for any reason thaN aggravated assault would probably leave her penniless.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:11 pm62. Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:06 pm
Well, it would be true politically.
Any other charges could supersede these in attention. It takes time just to get all the discovery and file motions. I heard it’s possible that some of these other cases could get to trial first.
This case could also be dismissed on several legal grounds. (not stating a crime basically)
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:11 pmA good explainer about the prosecution of falsifying records in the first degree in NY:
Dana (1225fc) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:11 pmI am disappointed. There are many questionable business practices and actual criminal convictions surrounding Trump and his companies. To make this only about Daniels and McDougal seems like criminalizing adultery and its cover up, something that was rejected with Clinton and Edward’s.
The charges are legitimate but there was more they could charge. I think Joe Citizen would have been charged.
DRJ (0abb72) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:12 pmTrumpster republicans in tennessee to oust democrat members in state leg. who marched in gun control protest march of school shooting in retaliation for trump indictment. (DU)
asset (d513e0) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:13 pm@56. Of course. She’s ‘officially’ number 3 on the runway [with some Stormy & Karen cross traffic, if not more] and she renegotiated her prenup:
Melania Trump used newfound leverage to redo prenup after election win, new book says
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/melania-trump-used-newfound-leverage-redo-prenup-after-election-win-n1230471
DCSCA (3d6799) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:14 pmSkimmed the indictment. Seems like pretty weak sauce to me.
Time123 (07c2cb) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:14 pmSo the five years ends about January, 2023.
IANAL, but I think that the crime that justifies making these misdemeanors into felonies occurred in October 2016. Perhaps a falsification to cover a crime that cannot currently be charged is still a felony. The lawyers probably know.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:15 pmMAGAland Marge responds to Trump’s indictment/arraignment:
Dana (1225fc) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:16 pmLooking again at the indictment, it would seem that Statements of Fact through paragraph 15 are immaterial as they do not result in any charge.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:17 pmI’m curious, do our resident anti-anti-Trump view this as a win or a loss?
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:17 pmWhen you don’t have the real thing, fake it.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:18 pmAnyone know what the NY jurisdiction is on this? Does the business record need to be a for a business registered in NY? Do the events need to happen in NY?
I’m ignorant here and would like one of the smarter ppl on this blog to help educate me. In exchange you’ll have my deep appreciation and the joy of helping someone learn.
Being a little flippant because I have no basis to expect anyone to spend their time in such a way and I know it.
Time123 (07c2cb) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:19 pmPresident Grant was also arrested (for repeated speeding in his buggy), and defaulted on his $20 bond when he did not appear in court.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/04/nyregion/ulysses-grant-trump-arrest.html
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:19 pm@69
The protestor shut down leg businesses.
Last I heard, that was “insurrectionist”.
Thems the rules.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:25 pmAs far as lamenting The Bulwark or Fox or any other news source, can well all agree that “objective journalism” is as dead as Caesar? Some outlets (WaPo, NYT) care about getting the facts right, and using proper English, but they long ago lost the battle with bias and activism, just like all the others.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:26 pmThe doorman story is new to me but apparently it is not new (but another question is: Is it true? Or did the National Enquirer pay money to keep a lie (or a misunderstanding) secret and s it a violation of campaign finance law in any case)
https://nypost.com/2018/08/25/doorman-who-sold-story-of-alleged-trump-love-child-to-ami-says-hes-free-to-talk-now
Trump’s not paying child support, apparently, and he surely would be if he had fathered her child. (or signed some kind of excuse to pay her a lot of money)
The woman in question was his housekeeper. Now that true in the case of Arnold Schwarzenegger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Baena
We would know by now if it was true.
So the National Enquirer suppressed a lie or a suspicion.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:27 pmAm I missing something in the statement of facts?
What is the specific federal law Trump violated??
But, hey, I’m not a lawyer so it must be somewhere my eyeballs isn’t landing… o.O
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:28 pmAmerica means never having to say you’re sorry.
Up until recently, America made batter choices than those other countries.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:28 pmA speedy trial will preclude the dozens of motions that Trump intends to file to challenge the charges, the judge, the venue, etc. If he wants a speedy trial he won’t be able to do so. In fact, the next hearing in this case is in December. And Trump already has trial scheduled for next month.
Source
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:28 pm77. Time123 (07c2cb) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:19 pm
I think the events – the events being the bookkeeping – need to happen not only in New York, but in New York County (Manhattan) for Bragg to have jurisdiction. he crime being hidden can have taken place anywhere.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:31 pmt
No federal laws are involved, this is strictly a New York State case.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:32 pma three-judge panel of the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals denied Trump’s urgent demand to block his aides from being required to appear before special counsel Jack Smith’s grand jury.
It’s long established that Executive Privilege does not extend to criminal conduct by the Executive. If you read the minutes of the 1787 Convention, you’d know that the Founders would have been, if anything, harsher. They had no truce with kings.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:33 pmBy the way, the alleged Professor Moriarty of politics looks like he has no involvement here:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/george-soros-denies-knowing-donating-alvin-bragg-1234707055
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:34 pmIt’s also a long established principle that executive privilege belongs to the current, not former President.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:35 pm@86
So, what was the “intent to commit another crime” that would elevate this to a felony?
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:35 pmWhich is true, but Bragg received donations from his children.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:36 pmKaren McDougal is indeed included.
Not a single charge relates to, or even references her.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:37 pmDana’s very helpful piece says:
“An individual “is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.” N.Y. Penal Code § 175.10.
For Trump to be prosecuted for felony violation of falsifying business records, the statute requires the DA to prove not only that Trump is guilty of falsifying business records (a misdemeanor), but that he did so with the intent to commit “another crime,” or aiding or concealing the commission of ‘another crime.'”
So what is the “other crime?” I think that’s what Paul Montague was asking too. Seems to be the million dollar question.
Re: the doorman story, I remember reading of Trump having a child with a housekeeper, the two of whom were both then secreted away to live in anonymity. The kid would be in his 30s now I guess. Rick Wilson will occasionally hint darkly at this story on twitter.
JRH (817a04) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:38 pm@90 It may be an artifact that this is a state indictment. I’m pretty sure states don’t have to annouce the bits and bobs in these charging/statement of fact documents.
Right? I’d imagine the standards can be different between states and even federal courts.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:38 pm73. Pontius Pilate was eventually removed by the Roman Emperor Tiberius for his bad deeds.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:39 pm@95 JRH (817a04) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:38 pm
Right… what were the “another crime,” or aiding or concealing the commission of ‘another crime’ in this context?
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:40 pmAnd Christopher Columbus was taken back to Spain in chains for his misdeeds.
How many people know that?
Columbus was released, but after that he was strictly an explorer.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:41 pm“I’m curious, do our resident anti-anti-Trump view this as a win or a loss?“
My take on the whole enchilada…
https://youtu.be/DCRyNREHe8M
Colonel Haiku (cf18d8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:42 pmTo make this only about Daniels and McDougal seems like criminalizing adultery and its cover up
It’s not even about McDougal at all.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:43 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:36 pm
Ah. Of course his children are running things now, anyway.
Were they small or big donations? Even small ones prove what Bragg’s politics are – but we know that without knowing specific donors.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:44 pmI hope all the donkeys get their cookie!
Colonel Haiku (cf18d8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:45 pmThe “other crime” was violating New York’s election laws. From the Statement of Facts:
My emphasis.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:47 pmI’m curious, do our resident anti-anti-Trump view this as a win or a loss?
Can one be #NeverTrump and anti-anti-Trump at the same time? In any event I view it as a win, as it seems quite beatable. As others have pointed out, the Trump Organization is a criminal enterprise. But maybe proving it on Mr Big is hard to do. “If only Trump knew!”
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:47 pmI think this woman is Karen McDougal:
Maybe “Lawyer A” told that to the National Enquirer, but he didn’t tell Trump!
Cohen is on tape trying to persuade Trump to send money to the National Enquirer because David Pecker might one day no longer be in carge and they would publish the story. That day, of course, being well after the election.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:50 pmA speedy trial will preclude the dozens of motions that Trump intends to file to challenge the charges, the judge, the venue, etc.
Stupid lawyer games, making motions that don’t stand a chance, or don’t actually help. A speedy trial still gets them discovery, and may speed it up. Delaying the trial hurts Trump. Those other trials are much worse for him and if he’s going to show persecution, he needs to do it soonest. I think that Trump the politician understands that.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:52 pm“If only Trump knew!” Or the Roman Emperor Tiberius. Or the King of Spain.
There was some guy in or around what is now New Mexico who was also removed.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:53 pmI misspoke.
Source
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:53 pmI’m sure they are following instructions from their client. He is known to make frivolous motions to delay his day in court.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:55 pm82. whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:28 pm
Or state law that prohibits violating any other law (including a federal law.)
Bragg is leaving himself open to settling on something later.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:57 pmSo who’s making the decisions for Color of Change? I heard also that he got only half the amount because of some issues.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:59 pmIs the DA’s argument that Trump “purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication” is illegal in and of itself? Or, it’s not bad by itself, but doing it and then lying about it on business records to help his campaign is illegal? (I think it’s the latter).
JRH (817a04) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:00 pm175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.
Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.
https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-175-10.html
And what is 2nd degree falsification you may ask?
175.05 Falsifying business records in the second degree
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, he:
1. Makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
2. Alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
3. Omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise in violation of a duty to do so which he knows to be imposed upon him by law or by the nature of his position; or
4. Prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof in the business records of an enterprise.
Falsifying business records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
Colonel Haiku (cf18d8) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:00 pm@70, Whembly here’s a link to a right wing protest that was mildly violent (some shoving), disorderly, interfered with legislative business and was not described as an insurrection. You can find a lot of similar protests if you google “anti-lockdown protests”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/may/15/armed-protesters-clash-at-michigans-state-capitol-over-coronavirus-lockdown-video
One of the things that makes Jan 6 different is that many of the violent republicans who assaulted the police to seize the capital did so explicitly to prevent the lawful transfer of power.
Time123 (6f6b54) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:03 pmI’ve read more of the charging documents. This seems barely supportable from a legal standpoint, and very weak sauce. Based on what I know now (I’m open to changing my mind) I don’t think the changes should have been brought. But I don’t think doing so is an extreme miscarriage of justice so much as a poor use of prosecutorial discreation
Time123 (6f6b54) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:05 pm@102
Regarding your emphasis, that’s federal. To my understanding, all election laws surrounding a federal election is governed solely by the FEC.
Again, there isn’t anything there that describes the statute (federal or state) that Trump allegedly broke.
The ” tax purposes” one, seems to be the stronger of the two, but wouldn’t that be under civil doctrine?
Anyhoo…as much as I want Trump to be dinged, this ain’t it.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:08 pmUnder NY law (CPL § 30.30) the prosecution has up to 6 months to try someone for felonies. Bragg’s request to schedule a January 2024 trial date is a few months beyond 6 months, it is the Trump team that wants a trial a year from now.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:08 pmWe’ll see.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:08 pm@115 Sorry, regarding “federal election is governed solely by the FEC”, should’ve phrased that better…I mean that the FEC (or US DOJ) would need to bring a charge stemming from a general election ‘payment’ scheme. Right?
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:09 pm@113
If we’re going to make “obstruction of congress” a hardcore line that shan’t be crossed (ala J6), then if any group, be the anti-lockdown crowd or the pro-transgender folks in TN who obstructs official proceeding of the state legislatures ought to have the books thrown at them as well.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:14 pmCry ‘Strike… poorly phrased!’, and let slip the LegalLions!®
Colonel Haiku (cf18d8) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:17 pmTrump Gets Good News About Stormy Daniels Case While in Court
Facing 34 felony counts in the investigation of hush money payments to onetime adult-film star Stormy Daniels, former President Donald Trump’s camp likely welcomed some positive news after spending Tuesday afternoon in a Manhattan courtroom.
He didn’t have to wait long. At the same time Trump and his legal team prepared their defense, Trump’s attorneys on the other side of the country in California learned Daniels—the star witness in Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s case—might owe him some money. A lot of it.
Shortly after the allegations of hush money became public, Daniels filed a defamation suit against then-President Donald Trump after he posted a tweet questioning Daniels’ story of being threatened to keep quiet about an alleged affair between them.
Daniels—then working with disgraced attorney Michael Avenatti—claimed an unknown man had threatened her in 2011 in a Las Vegas, Nevada, parking lot to keep quiet about the alleged intimate relationship she’d had with the former president. A hush money payment followed, by former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen, who testified that he paid it on the ex-president’s behalf. fter Avenatti released an artist’s sketch depicting the man who Daniels said threatened her, Twitter user posted a side-by-side comparison of Daniels’ ex-husband and the alleged attacker. Trump responded: “A sketch years later about a nonexistent man. A total con job, playing the Fake News Media for Fools (but they know it)!”
Daniels then filed a lawsuit against Trump in California. The judge ultimately found Trump was merely expressing his opinion when he posted the tweet, and ordered Daniels to reimburse him $300,000 in legal fees.
Daniels announced her intention to fight back, tweeting: “I will go to jail before I pay a penny.”
On Tuesday, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled Daniels would be required to compensate Trump roughly $122,000 in additional attorney fees, piling onto the hundreds of thousands she’d already owed him from previous proceedings.
The ruling was celebrated on social media by Harmeet Dhillon, Trump’s attorney in the case and former Republican National Committee chairwoman candidate, who had defended him in a number of cases brought by Daniels. “Congratulations to President Trump on this final attorney fee victory in his favor this morning,” wrote Dhillon. “Collectively, our firm obtained over $600,000 in attorney fee awards in his favor in the meritless litigation initiated by Stormy Daniels.”
Newsweek has contacted the offices of Daniels’ attorney, Corey Brewster, for comment. Trump still faces an array of litigation in the coming months. In addition to the hush money case in Manhattan, the Department of Justice is investigating the classified documents from his time as president that were found in his Mar-a-Lago home in Florida, as well as a series of probes into efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election.
Trump also faces a series of investigations into his various corporate enterprises, led by Bragg and New York State Attorney General Letitia James. – https://www.newsweek.com/
DCSCA (6415df) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:18 pm@114
Here’s the thing: this event shouldn’t be looked at in a vacuum.
Bragg is known for being soft on crime, letting violent criminals loose, only for them to commit even more crimes.
Prosecutors, as a general rule, don’t bring charges on cases that are this shaky. That’s because there’s a finite number of hours and resource for the DA to spend on prosecuting crimes in their domain.
So, here, you have a very lenient DA looking extremely partisan in going after Trump. Politically, he has a problem and is likely doing lasting damage to not only his office, but damaging the credibility of his office for his successors as well. That shouldn’t be ignored.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:19 pmNot with this schedule:
As noted above, under NY law (CPL § 30.30) the prosecution has up to 6 months to try someone for felonies.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:21 pm@122 @114 Time, what I’m saying is that there’s an argument to be made of prosecutorial abuse by Bragg.
But, in the end, it doesn’t matter. Trump will have his day in court, and there are going to be political ramifications that I don’t think everyone can anticipate.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:21 pm@123
You mean, the court case, as in “arguing in court” must begin by no later than 6 months. (ie, the court would be conduction it’s hearings by October ’23??)
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:23 pm@98. No mug shot; a win for social media; a loss for American cottage industry entrepreneurs- and Chinese T-shirt manufacturers.
DCSCA (6415df) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:24 pmWhembly, your comment at 122 is persuasive.
Time123 (a7e7d5) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:28 pmWhembly, I don’t think “obstruction of Congress” was the bright line in question for most ppl. Making that the rule minimizes what the violent trump supporters were trying to accomplish.
Time123 (a7e7d5) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:30 pmSource
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:35 pm@128
But, just about all (??) of the convictions was that “obstruction of Congress”.
I think where you and I differ, is that I believe that there was an actual conspiracy by the folks there to stop Congress from doing their job. Whereas I, believe it was a protest that got out of control and turned into an uncontrolled riot (redundant, I know). A riot that was violent, and that those who destroyed property and assaulted officers SHOULD (and are!) be held to account.
If protestors trespass during an official proceeding of their legislatures, then they should be held to account for doing so for “obstructing official proceeding” ala J6.
That’s not minimizing J6 at all, in fact, I would argue it bolsters the J6 prosecution legitimately by applying the same standards elsewhere.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:37 pm@129
And there it is.
There’s a lot of trying to shove a circular rod into a square hole here, but Bragg’s office will need to prove it.
Frankly, I don’t think they care if they can prove it. The fact that he decided to indict Trump on this screams to me that its all about the narrative building exercise, rather than a good-faith effort to seek justice.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:39 pm@130 @Time123 sorry it should be “I think where you and I differ, is that I don’t believe that there was an actual conspiracy…”
whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:41 pmI said a few days ago that, for Bragg’s sake, he should have the evidence for an open-and-shut felony conviction, beyond all reasonable doubt. So far, I haven’t seen it because the AG hasn’t specified the exact crime that Trump intended to conceal. Disappointing.
I can understand the AG at this stage of the process not putting all the cards on the table but, so far, we’re not getting much at all here. I’d like to hear what our prosecuting attorney and chief blogger here has to say.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:46 pm“ The most recent Reuters poll, taken from 3/31 – 4/3, has Trump up by 29 percentage points. In the previous Reuters poll, 3/14 – 3/20, Trump was only up by 14. In the most recent Trafalgar Group poll, 3/31 – 4/2, Trump is up by 33 points. In the previous Trafalgar Group poll, he was up by 14.
It seems obvious that the indictment has improved his standing. Nice work, Trump haters.”
—- Ann Althouse
Colonel Haiku (1f4381) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:52 pmThe “indictment bounce.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:54 pmThey engaged in an insurrection.
What’s good for the goose…
NJRob (6f0742) — 4/4/2023 @ 4:03 pmRide the eel, donkeyites!
Colonel Haiku (1f4381) — 4/4/2023 @ 4:03 pmMichael Cohen is Lawyer A.
Karen McDougal is Woman 1.
Stephanie Clifton aka Stormy Daniels is Woman 2.
I think Lawyer B is Michael Avenatti. I am not sure but I think Lawyer B may be Robert Costello. Lawyer D may be Rudy Giuliani.
The Statement of Facts states facts supporting the charges. It does not state the charges.
The Indictment states the charges and the applicable law that authorizes the charges, not all the facts.
After seeing only one side of the case, IMO the charges are legitimate. If proven, there is sufficient evidence supporting them, although defendant gets to offer evidence, too. My concern is that the American public has been conditioned to believe politicians’ adultery is their private business.
DRJ (0abb72) — 4/4/2023 @ 4:08 pmConditioned by Democrats, of course. Now Republicans are signing on to that part of the Democratic platform.
DRJ (0abb72) — 4/4/2023 @ 4:09 pmHere’s an explanation from Philip Bump.
In short, because Cohen committed these crimes and was convicted for them, Trump being a co-conspirator with Cohen crosses the felony threshold?
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/4/2023 @ 4:30 pm#16
steveg (d930cf) — 4/4/2023 @ 4:33 pmRip, I am aware charges were dropped for Moussa. Why were there charges that needed dropping? Moussa was shot twice before taking possession of the weapon and shooting the person who had just shot him in the abdomen and ear, but was initially charged with unlawful possession of a firearm. The NYPD must have some pretty strict instructions from the DA when it comes to making arrests in cases involving guns. I live in a deep blue piece of CA and am confident I could do the same thing here and go uncharged… even though the City Attorney here would like to be able to attach a GVRO onto a traffic ticket
Paul,
I think that means that Cohen committed a crime
AMI also committed a crime. Both were intended to protect Trumps campaign.
Trumps crime was falsifying business records to cover up Cohens and AMI’s crimes. Trumps crime is elevated to a felony because it was a crime covering up a separate crime.
DRJ (427e62) — 4/4/2023 @ 5:04 pmCSPAN alerted viewers noting the Official Trump website is selling an OFFICIAL MUGSHOT T-SHIRT. $36.00
https://secure.winred.com/save-america-joint-fundraising-committee/storefront/mugshot-white-cotton-t-shirt/details
DCSCA (645919) — 4/4/2023 @ 5:35 pmI’m more interested in whatever Bragg has that doesn’t depend on Cohen. Cohen orchestrated payments and the accounting for the payments and can say he was only doing what he and Trump colluded on, but he’ll need a tape, text, email to be convincing outside Manhattan
steveg (d930cf) — 4/4/2023 @ 5:50 pmJack Smith thanks Trump for his just-completed speech at Mar-A-Lago.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/4/2023 @ 5:54 pmAnd that crime had its inception in the Trump Tower in August, 2015 when Trump and Pecker colluded to catch and kill negative stories.
When did Natalia Veselnitskaya meet with the Trumpevitch (Don Jr.), also in the Trump Tower?
nk (bb1548) — 4/4/2023 @ 5:55 pmMy 146 was to DRJ’s 142.
nk (bb1548) — 4/4/2023 @ 5:57 pmYes, nk.
Cohen was aware of the AMI deal with McDougal, but Pecker negotiated it. So there is an underlying crime that doesn’t directly involve Cohen.
DRJ (427e62) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:04 pmSource
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:05 pmWhat’s up with your fellow Gdik, nk? BJ has a slight lead with 88% counted.
urbanleftbehind (bc1716) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:13 pmFrom a juridical point of view, I feel a lot better about the case now. There is accomplice liability on the part of Trump, and the crime does not depend on Cohen’s conviction.
nk (bb1548) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:24 pmIt will be close, ulb. But the turnout was miserable in my ward. I don’t know about the rest of North and Northwest.
nk (bb1548) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:28 pmBJ number one with a bullet, baby!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:31 pmAnd a strange thing, but I had hot dogs (Oscar Mayer) cut into bite-size pieces and macaroni and cheese for lunch. Something I have never put together for myself before. Followed by chocolate chips. No, not chocolate chip cookies. Just the chocolate chips out of the bag.
Shaking my head.
nk (bb1548) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:34 pmWatch these folks who work within the NYC system, how they show how much they value that system by twisting the rules, lying about their motivation, etc.
It’s their corrupt world. Best to stand clear.
Colonel Haiku (c62d87) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:40 pmThe “other crime” was violating New York’s election laws. From the Statement of Facts:
2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects.
None of the charges relate to anything that the National Enquirer or Mr Packer did, nor any purchase of negative information by same.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:48 pmThe judge presiding over Tuesday’s arraignment, Juan M. Merchan, set a schedule for Mr. Trump’s lawyers to file motions by Aug. 8 and prosecutors by Sept. 19, with judge’s orders to come on Dec. 4.
I presume this is because Trump’s team did NOT demand a speedy trial. Had they done so, the judge would have published a tighter schedule. It is certainly not proof that they could NOT have demanded one.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:05 pmThere are a number of reasons to object to the charges.
1. Statute of Limitations, although this is unlikely.
2. The lack of the underlying crime, which only has a convicted $4 million tax felon and perjurer’s guilty plea to back it up, and that guilty plea was packaged with the tax crime, for which alone the defendant got a reduced sentence.
3. The multiplicity of the recited crimes. Even if you agree that the record violations were to hide the payment to Stormy, there were not 34 individual decisions to engage in cover-up. Nor is it likely that the prosecution can prove Trump’s (or Cohen’s) state of mind showed intent in each instance.
I think this last part is likely to work. It’s like charging someone for speeding separately for each block he exceeded the posted speed. OTOH, while it will reduce the felony charges down to a handful, they are still felony charges as long as #2 holds up.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:05 pmConditioned by Democrats, of course. Now Republicans are signing on to that part of the Democratic platform.
The Rule of Law works for both sides. Either well or poorly, but not well for Republicans and poorly for Democrats.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:09 pmTrumps crime was falsifying business records to cover up Cohens and AMI’s crimes
Which charge involved AMI?
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:10 pmMeanwhile Wisconsin’s Supreme Court now in Democrat hands. No one’s life, liberty or property are safe while the Court is in session.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:15 pmThere are many Americans who just want to live our lives in peace and be as prosperous as we can. No perverted sex-ed for our pre- K through 6th grade children, no new wars, no more invasion on our border, no climate change mandate horseschit, etc.
If it isn’t obvious by now that this is not what Democrats value, let alone foster, I’m not sure what additional unmitigated disasters you must witness to open your eyes.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:18 pmThe MAGAs should’ve learned the lesson from last November: Batsh-t doesn’t win elections in swing states.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:21 pmDonald Trump claimed, like it’s settled law, that when a president [treats classified information like it is not classified] it is de-classsified. It’s automatic, he said. He can make that claim, but it’s not settled law, and I want to know, what took him so long to come up with that defense?
I didn’t like the way he pronounced China – he said Joe Biden took documents to a place that was (near?) Chinatown. Yes, you could argue the CCP operates there but really?
Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:30 pmBrandon Johnson pulls out win in Chicago mayoral race
Rip Murdock (740542) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:38 pm156.Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:48 pm
Because there’s no false record he made to hide that.He only reimbursed – triple because tax consequences were taken into account – Michael Cohen’s payment to Stormy Daniels. In the end, he didn’t give the National Enquirer anything so there was nothing to make an untruthful bookkeeping entry about.
Bragg will say his hiding of the Cohen payment also hid what the National Enquirer did, and they may have Trump himself on the (fee=deral and statute of limitations expired) crime of soliciting an illegal corporate campaign contribution from AMI.
Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:42 pmWhich charge involved AMI?
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:10 pm
Source
Rip Murdock (740542) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:45 pmWhat’s the theory? That if he hadn’t reimbursed MC, in the process making false bookkeeping entries, MC would have informed prosecutors of the agreement with the National Enquirer? This is so farfetched you can’t even say it.
Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:46 pm165… Another nail in the Windbag City’s coffin.
Colonel Haiku (c62d87) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:46 pm168… lol.
Bet they can!
Colonel Haiku (c62d87) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:48 pm167. That’s a statement of fact, but it is not related to any of the counts in the indictment,
Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:48 pmYou know, it takes some thinking to realize that the National Enquirer purchasing exclusive rights to a story in order to help Trump amounts to an illegal corporate campaign contribution.
Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:53 pmAccording to NY law, Identifying the underlying crime is not required in the indictment. See post 149.
Rip Murdock (740542) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:53 pmHe’s making the claim well after the fact, Sammy. There’s no record or evidence anywhere that he declassified any of the documents he stole from the White House while he was president.
Also, and more importantly, it’s irrelevant. The Espionage Act doesn’t say a word about classified documents, but it does refer to materials relating to the national defense, and Trump not only took those national defense materials, he willfully retained them, which is illegal under the law. His obstruction of their return only furthers his lawbreaking. Trump’s admissions tonite in his speech only strengthens Special Counsel Smith’s case.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:55 pmAMI is mentioned throughout the Statement of Facts and has a lot to with the charges involving McDougal and the doorman.
Rip Murdock (740542) — 4/4/2023 @ 8:01 pmWhat exactly is the AMI crime, DRJ? Cohen’s crimes were proven in a court of law, but what is the legal standing of Pecker’s crimes? I know that Bragg more or less declared it so, but what basis? Be gentle, because IANAL.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/4/2023 @ 8:05 pmYou know, it takes some thinking to realize that the National Enquirer purchasing exclusive rights to a story in order to help Trump amounts to an illegal corporate campaign contribution.
If you coordinate with the candidate. That’s why the August 2015 Trump Tower meeting with Pecker matters.
nk (bb1548) — 4/4/2023 @ 8:05 pmA contribution can be anything of value, and buying stories to suppress them to protect Trump’s campaign seems pretty obvious to be something “of value.”
Rip Murdock (740542) — 4/4/2023 @ 8:09 pmLiberals take wisconsin supreme court seat protecting abortion rights and stop republican gerrymandering. Every day demographics helps democrats and hurts republicans. AOC will be ready in 2024/2028. Despite republican propaganda Young latinx hate republicans as was seen in 2022 election. Happy das are here again!
asset (dd40c2) — 4/4/2023 @ 8:22 pmLOL the Democrats have decades of unreported campaign contributions from one-sided media coverage.
JF (324433) — 4/4/2023 @ 8:52 pmSo … what was the political downside to liberal Democrats of Trump’s arraignment today?
nk (bb1548) — 4/4/2023 @ 8:54 pmAll that the Republicans have accomplished by hugging that bucket of vomit is to get more and more people to look away in revulsion. And their glance to fall elsewhere.
nk (bb1548) — 4/4/2023 @ 9:02 pmSo … what was the political downside to liberal Democrats of Trump’s arraignment today?
nk (bb1548) — 4/4/2023 @ 8:54 pm
probably the same political downside to Putin for prosecuting Khodorkovsky
JF (324433) — 4/4/2023 @ 9:10 pmThe MAGAs should’ve learned the lesson from last November: Batsh-t doesn’t win elections in swing states.
I wasn’t aware that the other candidate was batsh1t. I think that the election hinged on abortion rights, with the idea that a 4-3 Democrat court would discover the abortion right in the state constitution.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:11 pmBrandon Johnson pulls out win in Chicago mayoral race
Some people learn hard.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:13 pm@167
Well, that little condescension doesn’t address the fact that it has nothing at all to do with any of the 34 charges.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:15 pmAccording to NY law, Identifying the underlying crime is not required in the indictment. See post 149.
More condescension. This is really something you should wean yourself off of.
It is not required in the indictment, but it IS required in the trial. And every last charge in the indictment is regarding 2017, when Trump was paying off Cohen. Since Trump never paid a dime to AMI at any time, none of these charges relate to that. The only thing they have going is Cohen’s claim that Trump was managing the fraud to hide the payments to Cohen (and thereby to Daniels).
And then, who was defrauded?
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:21 pmA contribution can be anything of value, and buying stories to suppress them to protect Trump’s campaign seems pretty obvious to be something “of value.”
Third parties can help a candidate unless the expenditure is coordinated with the campaign. The earlier meeting to talk strategy does not prove coordination of AMI’s individual acts. See my 51. They may have wished for a thing, as in “I wish you’d run TV ads against my opponent” but unless they start writing the scripts, it’s just a hope.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:27 pmrepublican gerrymandering.
I’m going to bet that you had no problem with the Democrat gerrymanders before 1990. Democrats held Congress almost continuously for 60 years, sometimes with huge majorities despite far more even balloting. That didn’t just happen.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:30 pmSo … what was the political downside to liberal Democrats of Trump’s arraignment today?
Overreach with dubious charges that may help Trump get over on the real charges yet to come. They even made people who despise Trump feel he had been wronged.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:33 pmBelieve it or not, there are people who are more concerned with abuse of process than “getting Trump.” Bullsh1t is bullsh1t no matter who is spewing it or why.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:35 pmMaybe look at abuse of process like: If we let all politicians get away with everything, that’s its own kind of abuse. Trump has flouted the law his whole professional life. We’re supposed to just laugh it off. Maybe that’s its own abuse of the system.
JRH (bd37ac) — 4/4/2023 @ 11:25 pmDemocrats go full commie yet again in Wisconsin and Chicago. Act Blue launders money for them.
Yet more of the same. Have fun.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 4/5/2023 @ 3:48 amI don’t know if McMullin changed his views on abortion or not, as I didn’t follow his race that closely. But given that your statement about him becoming a Democrat is flatly untrue, I am not hopeful about your trustworthiness.
McMullin has been an independent since 2016. He ran as one in 2020 (for president) and 2022 (for the Senate). It’s not hard to check.
Demosthenes (224e96) — 4/5/2023 @ 4:43 amThat’s possible, of course…yet early polls indicate most Americans feel the indictment is warranted, even if most also think it was done more for political than for legal reasons. Ultimately, I don’t think this will help Trump with swing voters, or the broader electorate.
Republican primary voters are, of course, a different story. The droolie-droolies love him more than ever now. I’ve seen several “Trump crucified for our sins” images — DURING THE EASTER SEASON — that make me want to give up on America and go join the Swiss.
Demosthenes (224e96) — 4/5/2023 @ 4:48 amhttps://thepoliticalinsider.com/school-superintendent-candidate-has-job-offer-yanked-for-politely-calling-two-women-ladies-in-email/
Example #1,010,100 on how leftists are mentally ill. Support them at your peril.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 4/5/2023 @ 5:01 amHe should have addressed them by their names and titles. He wasn’t talking to the high school field hockey team. He was talking to people with the power to hire him and give him more money.
It was a micro-aggression, designed to give him a psychological edge in the salary negotiations. Impliedly hostile and derogatory, and explicitly condescending and disrespectful. And a lazy way to write to people. Even in emails.
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 5:24 amI understand the argument for felony enhancement, I’m just not sure how “just” this is going to be viewed. This smells like a misdemeanor infraction that should be penalized with a stiff fine to provide some sort of future deterrent. Trying this will just resuscitate the “What about Hillary” complaints and felony traps set up for all future candidates. Yes, there’s karma and arrogance here…but it’s also about sex and hiding sex. If you’re going to jail an ex-President or even an ex-Presidential candidate, there needs to be more there there, as Gertrude Stein might say. The Georgia case, the Mar-a-Lago documents obstruction, and the J6 conspiracy have the there there, though none will be a slam dunk. The solution to Trump should have been impeachment. The solution to Trump shouldn’t be 50% of Republicans wanting him to be their nominee. It’s embarrassing.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 4/5/2023 @ 5:37 am@198 AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 4/5/2023 @ 5:37 am
AJ… all of that.
If the conduct didn’t warrant an impeachment removal from office. Then trying to convict an ex-President on misdemeanors that are trumped up to felony based on novel theories smacks of political persecution.
We all should be able to point this out, even if it’s such a hated figure such as Trump.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:39 am“Meanwhile, in Chicago, just when you thought things could not get worse, they voted in the guy who’s loudly and proudly stated he’d get rid of the police. In Chicago.”
Colonel Haiku (c62d87) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:39 amLooks like Bragg isn’t getting support from the usual places for the indictment:
https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/4/4/23648390/trump-indictment-supreme-court-stormy-daniels-manhattan-alvin-bragg
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/donald-trump-charged-felony-bragg-mistake.html
I do think Democrats really hope the GOP nominates Trump again because he is such a loser for the Republicans. They keep acting like they want him to be the nominee.
Appalled (4e1795) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:50 amI do think Democrats really hope the GOP nominates Trump again because he is such a loser for the Republicans. They keep acting like they want him to be the nominee.
Absolutely agree. On both counts. He is their biggest vote-getter and fund-raiser, the “clear and present danger” that only they can save America from.
Hey, they got a right to keep their phony-baloney jobs, too, same as McDaniel and McCarthy!
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:58 amThat was fast. Trump’s rambling dumpster fire of a speech last night was fact-checked.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/5/2023 @ 7:09 amNk,
I pray you are joking.
NJRob (c263d1) — 4/5/2023 @ 7:14 am“Meanwhile, in Chicago, just when you thought things could not get worse, they voted in the guy who’s loudly and proudly stated he’d get rid of the police. In Chicago.”
Colonel Haiku (c62d87) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:39 am
who cares, as long as he’s anti-Trump
JF (e68188) — 4/5/2023 @ 7:21 amNo, NJRob, I was perfectly serious.
But I remember that the Vice Principal at my high school (one of Chicago’s then two magnet schools) was a former woodshop teacher. Principal Perrone is a former football coach. Maybe it is a simply a case of him reaching his Peter Principle level at the hiring process, and not the “Art Of The Deal” negotiating tactic I credited him with.
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 7:43 amVery sad that you consider a polite statement acknowleging the obvious to be a “micro-aggression” which is a symptom of leftist imagined offense.
NJRob (c263d1) — 4/5/2023 @ 7:53 amLike I said, Kevin. He was in on the Wisconsin Fake Electors scheme. The GOP could’ve kept that seat but instead they nominated a right-wing jackass.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/5/2023 @ 8:00 amSpot on!
https://pasteboard.co/4GEh3g8Zul6i.png
Colonel Haiku (c62d87) — 4/5/2023 @ 8:04 amMy Son’s little league practices started last night and I hung out with one of the other dads. We’re acquaintances and get along well. I asked him what he thought about the Trump thing.
His response was (as best I can recall it) “I’m not really into politics. Seems nuts to me. What is this like the 3rd time he’s been arrested?” I asked him if he thought it was politically motivated and he said (again as best I can recall) “Yeah probably. But what do you expect. Everyone knows Trump is crooked. They all are.”
That was all the politics we talked about. It’s a focus group of 1, but so far this drama isn’t make a big impact on the public psyche.
Time123 (c6bcd1) — 4/5/2023 @ 8:27 amYes, and yes…
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/5/2023 @ 8:32 ami think mr. former president donald trump, whom the soros-backed leftist drag queen conspiracy is constantly trying to humiliate and traumatize by enticing him to grab the wrong thing, could be elected dogcatcher of mar-a-lago in a landslide
and he doesn’t even like dogs
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 8:43 amThis is true…
No, there’s more to it, which is why Trump spent all that time last night whining about Jack Smith and Fulton County.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/5/2023 @ 8:44 am@196, Seems like the recipients of that email are overly sensitive. But the sender was rude. It’s impolite and condescending to refer to women as ‘ladies‘ in a professional setting. If you’re looking for a job it’s a bad idea to be mildly insulting. At least that’s what I was taught when I got my first corporate job about 20 years ago.
For those who don’t know you also shouldn’t refer to women in a professional setting as ‘lass’ ‘girlie’ ‘honey’ or reference their bodies / appearance. Doing so is impolite and disrespectful to the person you’re speaking with. Obviously this is a general rule and there maybe specific exceptions.
Calling a older co-worker ‘gramps’ or a black co-worker ‘boy’ are also disrespectful should be avoided.
Time123 (c6bcd1) — 4/5/2023 @ 8:49 amI’m sorry, I didn’t mean to sound condescending, but AMI’s involvement is discussed throughout the Statement of Facts, and Pecker was one of the final witnesses for the grand jury.
In your post 158 you wrote:
You are correct the underlying crime(s) will need to be identified at trial, but your comment seems to imply they should have been identified in the indictment. This is just a beginning; we will much more from both sides over the next several months.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 9:21 amBetween teh Bulwart and the Lincoln Man-Boy Love Project, the “hey, sailor!” cruise vibe is off the charts!
Colonel Haiku (c62d87) — 4/5/2023 @ 9:21 amAnd it was a crushing defeat for Kelly, 55.5% to 45.5%. Now we need to figure out how to pronounce “Protasiewicz.”
Given the fact that spending topped $42M (with Protasiewicz having a $6M advantage), the corruption potential is huge. I oppose judicial elections, they are not really “non-partisan,” and it gives the appearance of verdict buying.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 9:36 amGood read here:
whembly (d116f3) — 4/5/2023 @ 9:48 amhttps://shugerblogcom.wordpress.com/2023/04/04/a-potential-problem-for-the-trump-indictment-is-there-any-precedent-for-an-internal-business-record/
yet early polls indicate most Americans feel the indictment is warranted, even if most also think it was done more for political than for legal reasons.
IOW, most Americans feel that bringing indictments for political reasons is OK if it’s against someone they don’t like. They would tear down the law to get at the Devil, to paraphrase Thomas More. Thank God for the Constitution that limits these “feelings.”
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 9:59 amGiven the fact that spending topped $42M (with Protasiewicz having a $6M advantage), the corruption potential is huge.
Most of it came from the Schlitz beer family. For both candidates. One branch of the family supported Protasewiecz, another Kelly. “Great taste!” “Less filling!” Like that.
Protaswiecz was a solid candidate. 26 years a prosecutor, a circuit judge, she got twice the votes Kelly got in the jungle primary.
All Kelly had going for him was that he was solidly in with the Republican Party. Scott Walker appointed him in 2016 to fill a sudden vacancy on the Supreme Court but he was voted out in the next election.
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 9:59 amThe droolie-droolies love him more than ever now.
Even now you have no idea why these people support Trump.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:00 am“hey sailor” vibe was off the charts here when the USS Ronald Reagan visited here and the Gay Pride group set up a “Welcome Sailors” booth at the beach. It was a very enthusiastic welcome.
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:01 amAn Opposing View:
Free link.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:01 amIt was a micro-aggression, designed to give him a psychological edge in the salary negotiations. Impliedly hostile and derogatory, and explicitly condescending and disrespectful. And a lazy way to write to people. Even in emails.
It was seen as such, anyway. Lesson #154634 in “how email is different from a face-to-face conversation.”
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:03 amThe solution to Trump should have been impeachment. The solution to Trump shouldn’t be 50% of Republicans wanting him to be their nominee.
Since late 2015, Trump’s adversaries have been thinking “Once Trump is out, I hope to pick up his supporters, so I can’t antagonize them too much.” Even in the 2nd impeachment, Senators with no love for Trump voted against conviction for this tired reason.
The problem is that it’s one of those relationships that NEVER EVER gets better. The man might live another decade; do they really want to still be in this relationship in 2032?
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:09 amI’m sorry, I didn’t mean to sound condescending, but AMI’s involvement is discussed throughout the Statement of Facts, and Pecker was one of the final witnesses for the grand jury.
And weirdly so, since everything before paragraph 16 is incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:11 amIn fact, the opening paragraphs in the Statement of Facts are prejudicial, and yet another ground for Trump’s lawyers to scuttle the whole thing, this time for misconduct.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:14 amSpeaking of 2032 and Supreme Courts, that’s how long the Democrats will control Illinois’s. They picked up a Republican seat in 2020 (the one held by former Bears place kicker Bob Thomas) and one more in 2022. 5-2 Democrat until 2030, and for sure 4-3 Democrat till 2032.
Thank you, Ms. McDaniel!
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:16 am“Meanwhile, in Chicago, just when you thought things could not get worse, they voted in the guy who’s loudly and proudly stated he’d get rid of the police. In Chicago.”
I’m looking forward to the next season of Chicago P.D. Probably add a couple social workers to the team.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:17 amChicago elections are not for the faint of heart. Just keep walking with your eyes straight ahead.
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:25 amTime,
None of the words you cited have anything remotely to do with a proper polite word like ladies. But for you to try and equate them…
NJRob (c263d1) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:25 amLike I said, Kevin. He was in on the Wisconsin Fake Electors scheme. The GOP could’ve kept that seat but instead they nominated a right-wing jackass.
So, I read that PBS hit piece, and saw nothing in it that said he favored the fake electors, only that he spoke with people about the plan, which could well have been “Are you out of your f***ing minds?!”
It’s also risible that the spokesman for his partisan Democrat rival would talk about separating partisanship from “justice.” Just watch her do the bidding of the Democrat Party, replacing a GOP gerrymander with a Democrat gerrymander.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:26 amSeriously? The statement of facts isn’t supposed to be neutral, it is the prosecution’s version of events backing up the indictment. I doubt any indictment has ever been dismissed due to “prejudicial” statement of facts.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:26 amTrump’s rambling dumpster fire of a speech last night was fact-checked.
As quickly and certainly as Biden’s horrific speeches are not.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:27 amThe Russians making fun of Trump
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fs9dfifaEAAMO4R?format=jpg&name=360×360
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:27 am”With a single, quick, deft move Alvin Bragg proved Trump right in everything he had been saying.
Moreover, Bragg presented an indictment such that supporting Trump has become like supporting Dreyfus – the integrity of the justice system is at stake which is a higher issue than the fortunes of one single man, be he a Jew or a Republican political candidate.
And thus Bragg united the country, not just the Republican party, in a high quest – communists, comedians, Never Trumpers and MAGA country are united in opposing Bragg’s Travesty as communists, singers, soft-core liberals and the right were united in France during the era of the Resistance.
Colonel Haiku (294160) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:28 amAnd the Democratic party went on record as favoring Bragg’s Travesty. They think they have an infallible mechanism for re-election, namely, ballot harvesting, which has ended the secret ballot for the black community. With that support it isn’t even necessary to do anything for the black community and hence de-schooling and de-policing are established there with the smiling blessing of Approved Black Richey Riches.”
You see what is happening with Trump’s indictment. don’t you. Even people who despise Trump, like me, are finding we despise the entire f***ing Democrat apparatus more.
No one is left trying to bring people together, instead the schism widens.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:29 amwrong one
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fs9dgWOXwAAS6IY?format=jpg&name=360×360
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:30 amI Predict:
* You will be caught outside in the rain and you’re gonna get wet.
* The unspecified crime will turn out to be Trump tearing off the mattress tag after coupling with teh Stormy.
Colonel Haiku (294160) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:34 amYes, and yes…
That “funny” first video was the result of someone throwing a skateboard in front of the rider. More assault on political opponents that gets giggles out of the Left.
It’s shameful to not have read down the thread to discover that this was 1) an assault, and 2) that the video guy was probably in on it.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:36 amThe reaction would have not been any different if Trump was first indicted in Georgia or DC.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:41 amHe is the only man in American presidential history who could pay off two porn stars, and orchestrate a criminal conspiracy to cover it up in the final crucial days of a presidential election, and have people think that it was “trivial”.
Patently untrue and offensive spin.
He wasn’t “covering it up”, he was paying off blackmail arriving from a woman he asserts he never met who threatened him with an October Surprise smear.
What is really surprising about modern politics is that blackmailers become victims when we don’t like their targets.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:41 amCleveland and Clinton, to name two.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:42 am@231, Calling a group of women in a professional setting ‘ladies’ is not generally considered polite and hasn’t been for a long time.
I think rescinding a job offer over it is excessive but it wasn’t a polite or professional way to address an email to other professionals and I can see deciding not to extend an offer based on that or some similar type of error / unprofessionalism.
Time123 (c6bcd1) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:43 amThe reaction would have not been any different if Trump was first indicted in Georgia or DC.
No, because I would not view those charges as utter bullsh1t. Or are you saying that I approved of January 6th? Because that would be slander (or libel, this medium straddles the difference).
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:44 amSnowflakes ride skateboards? I don’t think so. It was probably friendly fire from a he-man Proud Boy or Oathkeeper who will ride with Donald Trump into the FINAL BATTLE.
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:46 amAs for hiring matters, I find “Women and minorities [etc] encouraged to apply” to be insulting and discriminatory as is suggests that others are not encouraged to apply.
If we are going to pander to the microaggression crowd, we should hold them up to their own “principles.”
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:47 amI meant the national reaction, not yours. In either case Trump and TrumpWorld would view a Fulton County or January 6th/classified materials indictment as persecution.
Given that neither of us know our true identities, suing for slander or libel would be very difficult.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:52 amSnowflakes ride skateboards? I don’t think so. It was probably friendly fire from a he-man Proud Boy or Oathkeeper who will ride with Donald Trump into the FINAL BATTLE.
It seems to be a thing with skateboarders. Also read down the thread from that video for other reactions from those present, along with the video that shows the rider getting back up and charging into the crowd, pissed off at someone.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:52 amThen why make the (alleged) false business entries?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:53 amYou got it right the first time, Kevin. The micro-aggression thing. “It was seen as such, anyway.” And those two “ladies” had his ahem career in their hands. No room for a lazy solecism. By either definition of the word.
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:54 amKevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:52 am
I was kidding! I was kidding!
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:56 amGiven that neither of us know our true identities, suing for slander or libel would be very difficult.
And silly.
The point I was making is that people like me, who despise Trump, find these allegations political BS and cause us to see Trump — in this instance — as being wronged. I also see a further degradation of American politics as the law is used to drag political opponents through “due process.”
How we forget the following:
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:57 amOne of my favorite quotes. But my point is the same-among true Trump believers (and Trump himself), you will hear the same outrage if he is indicted in Fulton County or Washington DC. They don’t share your nuance.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:00 amFinally, someone who agrees with the left on defunding the police.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:01 amThere’s no good way to deal with blackmail. Whatever you try to do about it, you do at your peril. “Publish and be damned!” is the best response.
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:02 amSpeaking of 2032 and Supreme Courts, that’s how long the Democrats will control Illinois’s
Well, in a state where everyone who is registered to vote in Chicago (or was while they were alive) casts them every time, this isn’t too surprising.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:04 amTrump is getting the benefit of the law in this case. If this is pure politics it stops at court room. He gets to present a defense. He gets a jury. He has the right to appeal improper decisions by the trial judge.
Time123 (c6bcd1) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:04 amThe indictment, annotated.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:06 amThen why make the (alleged) false business entries?
Right. Instead, he should have loudly proclaimed “Here I am, paying blackmail!”
If people lie about sex, they REALLY lie about blackmail about sex.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:09 amKevin M (#242)
I really don’t think what the two women were doing was blackmail. This is how Stormy’s story was handled, per Bragg’s statement of facts:
Stormy was monetizing her special time with Trump. Not very nice — but isn’t paying for embarassing stories about famous people what the National Enquirer does?
Appalled (03f53c) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:09 amHit submit too soon.
Out system takes into account that LEO might be overly zealous / biased and we have checks in place because of that.
Time123 (c6bcd1) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:11 amHe got more than most white (let alone blue) collar defendants . No mug shot, no perp walk, no bail. Probably didn’t have to surrender his passport either.
Note that the fake mug shot adds two inches to his height.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:13 amTrump could have paid out of his personal funds, and none would be the wiser.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:14 amFinally, someone who agrees with the left on defunding the police.
There are far too many federal agencies with police power. Here’s a list, by department, from Wikipedia
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:17 amWhich ones would you defund?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:20 amStormy was monetizing her special time with Trump. Not very nice — but isn’t paying for embarassing stories about famous people what the National Enquirer does?
It had the effect of extortion, as the message was clear: “Pay me money or I will raise a stink just before the election!” She did this 2 weeks before a very close election. If she simply wanted to monetize this, she could have done it years (or at least months) earlier. But she waited until the “or else!” had teeth.
Suppose she did this in 2013, with the threat being “Or I’ll tell Melania!” (not that Melania would have cared). That would be classic blackmail. It doesn’t have to be a badger game to be criminal.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:24 amWhich ones would you defund?
It’s a target-rich environment. I’ll ask Rick Perry for a list.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:26 amTrump could have paid out of his personal funds, and none would be the wiser.
He had reasons not to do that, and Stormy’s behavior since indicates these reasons might be valid. He probably has more experience in this than you or I do.
I note that Stormy just lost an appeal in the 9th Circuit involving her failed defamation case and Trump’s legal fees. She now owes Trump over $400,000 — something that will be used to impeach her testimony in NYC.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:29 amOur system takes into account that LEO might be overly zealous / biased and we have checks in place because of that.
The IRS is about to get reamed by the Supremes over their habits of serving secret subpoenas on third parties in great excess of their legal authority. Example: serving a subpoena on a taxpayer’s lawyers to see all monetary transactions that might have occurred and enjoining the attorneys from notifying their client.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:34 amProbably didn’t have to surrender his passport either.
I’d encourage him to use it.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:36 amLOL! I would love to see him on America’s Most Wanted.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:38 amAs excuses go, Kevin, that one of your lamest. PBS wasn’t the only place that reported this, and it’s silly to assume that he just there to present the “anti” position. That’s not how this tribe rolls.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:38 amDemocrat apparatus, which is lawyer heavy, see Trump as a win-win. They think if they destroy Trump, legally and financially, preferably both, they win, but if they do miss, they are hedged because if he runs again, he will be get beaten badly and drag down the whole GOP ticket in every swing state.
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:46 am@265. America’s Royalist Police State.
… and Putin smiled… as Xi ballooned w/a grin.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 4/5/2023 @ 12:26 pmPaul
I read the article you cited about Kelly and went to the meat of their allegation(s) which was this deposition.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-J6-TRANSCRIPT-CTRL0000050979/pdf/GPO-J6-TRANSCRIPT-CTRL0000050979.pdf
A quick search of those 101 pages gave me 5 hits on “Kelly” 3 of those were the Kelly in question (the other was a woman who did secretarial work)
I think this bit from page 39, 40, 41 puts Kelly’s role into context
Okay. So — and I know we’ve touched on this a little bit before, but, you
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 12:26 pm19 know, understanding that there had been this — this recount that confirmed that Joe
20 Biden had won Wisconsin, the — won the popular vote in Wisconsin, did you have, you
21 know, any concerns with participating in a — in a meeting with the Republican Party
22 electors to cast, you know, purported electoral votes for President Trump and Vice
23 President Pence on December 14th?
24 A Well, that’s why I met with legal counsel, to kind of walk through, you know,
25 what are we doing, do we have the authority to do it, what are we going to do after it,
40
1 sort of understanding that, basically, if we didn’t meet, that it was completely waived.
2 And what I mean by that is, if we — if we didn’t meet and a court subsequently
3 ruled that these challenges in Wisconsin were successful, the guidance I was given is it
4 would be irrelevant because the elector meeting had not taken place.
5 Q Okay. So you were — from what you can recall, you were told by legal
6 counsel, if you all didn’t meet on December 14th and there was later a court decision that
7 perhaps threw out a bunch of Biden votes and made President Trump the winner of the
8 State, it wouldn’t matter because you — you guys hadn’t met on December 14th. Is that
9 fair?
10 A Yes, that’s fair. I was told there would be a complete waiver. And I
11 remember — I remember asking, how could that be? Like, how could you have, you
12 know, such a — what seems like a ministerial task, you know, meet at the capitol
13 December 14th at noon, you know, how — how could that be?
14 And I even asked: Let’s say we can’t — you know, we are not allowed in the
15 capitol and we meet on the grass or the snow, you know, on the sidewalk. What
16 happens then? And the advice — the advice I got back was: That might not count.
17 It’s not complying with the statute. You have to meet.
18 Now, the only way — so following up on that, the only way these vote — these
19 alternative slate of electors would matter, though, is if a court said so. If a court ruled
20 that the challenges were successful and that — that the challenges were successful and
21 that Trump had won, the only way these elector votes would count would be that, and
22 then that the Governor would have to send a certificate of, I believe it’s called final
23 determination.
24 And there’s a couple of other certificates too. There’s a certificate of
25 ascertainment, and then there’s a statement of the canvass from the Wisconsin Elections
41
1 Commission that I — I don’t know for certain, but, at the time, I remember thinking that
2 all of those or at least some of that would also have to be sent for the — for this to do
3 anything. Otherwise, what we did on December 14th is basically meaningless.
4 Q And who was the legal counsel who told you this —
5 A Mr. Olson.
6 Q — about the waiver?
7 Mr. Olson. Okay. Was it any other people that you recall told you that?
8 A I only — I think I only really talked with Mr. Olson and Mr. Kelly.
This actually sounds like good advice.
A. Comply with the statute to the letter or there will be a complete waiver
B. The only way the alternative slate of electors would matter is if the court says so
C. Governor would have to send a certificate of final determination
D. Certificate of ascertainment
E. Statement of Canvass from Wisconsin Elections
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 12:40 pmI owe Ms. Kelly an apology. In skimming the pages where she is mentioned by name, I mistakenly saw her role as secretarial. She was actually the Director of Communicans who was asked to act as Secretary of any meetings.
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 12:49 pmKevin M:
This story might interest you:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/exclusive-louisiana-backstory-puts-puzzling-twist-on-trump-daniels-tale
I don’t think it beccomes blackmail unless Stormy approached Trump directly or Stormy knew that the National Enquirer was a pipeline to Trump’s money,.
I know this is a side issue, but this prosecuton is so misbegotten that the only thing that interests me are the side issues.
Appalled (03f53c) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:03 pmI went there, too, steveg, and we did a similar word search.
The key verbiage in Hitt’s testimony, which I assume was under oath in front of the J6 Committee, was that he had “some pretty extensive conversations” with Kelly about “alternate” Electors. Your final line is also relevant.
Kelly was paid $120k by Hitt for his consulting services, which obviously covered other issues as well.
In your “good advice” comment, there’s a missing step, which is that a convened legislature officially approves a 2nd slate, and it’s a key reason why the seven “alternate” slates are fake.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:04 pmPence won’t appeal judge’s order to testify in Jan. 6 probe
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:14 pmTech executive, founder of Cash App is killed in stabbing in San Francisco
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:17 pmPence won’t appeal judge’s order to testify in Jan. 6 probe
He simply had to offer resistance. It’s not like he really minds testifying.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:19 pm264. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:14 am
You mean could have paid Stormy Daniels out of his personal funds. But the thing is, what the truth probably is, Michael Cohen found out that neither the National Enquirer nor Donald Trump was willing to pay Stormy Daniels $130,000 (which he had bargained down from $150.000)and so, for reasons we can only guess at, Michael Cohen decided to go ahead with it himself. This is a key difference of fact.
Although the District Attorney is alleging a general agreement, between David Pecker, Michael Cohen and Donald Trump which began, according to him, in August 2015, for the National Enquirer to buy up the exclusive rights to damaging stories about Donald Trump and not publish them (nicknamed “catch and kill” -which we read was a sometime practice of the National Enquirer with favored celebrities) and for the National Enquirer to be reimbursed.
The National Enquirer only bought up two stories about Donald Trump after August 2015 although they had bought up plenty before
Bragg, it looks like, is asserting that it was a conspiracy and it doesn’t matter that if Trump did not pre-approve the payment of $130,000 to Stormy Daniels because he had approved the general idea of reimbursing the National Enquirer back in August 2015!
And presumably it doesn’t matter to Donald Trump whether he’s reimbursing the National Enquirer or reimbursing his lawyer, Michael Cohen.
No, back in August 2015, Donald Trump had issued a blank check to anyone who paid off any blackmail on his behalf.
That’s what you have to believe if you want the indictment to make sense. Otherwise Michael Cohen’s payoff is an independent expenditure –unless Michael Cohen got, as he claims, special approval of the $130,000 from Donald Trump and agreement that the reason Trump did it was because of the election.
Michael Cohen has Trump check all the boxes to be guilty of accepting an unreported and over-the-limit political contribution from himself – or maybe a un-business-like loan, also illegal.
But Alvin Bragg has structured his indictment so that Trumpwould be guilty even if the jury determines that Michael Cohen is, or reasonably likely might, be lying about Trump authorizing and directing him to pay Stormy Daniels prior to his payment, because Trump allegedly had issued the National Enquirer OR Michael Cohen a blank check back in August 2015.
Cohen says he had had a blank check from Trump because he allegedly was his “fixer”
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:21 pmAs excuses go, Kevin, that one of your lamest. PBS wasn’t the only place that reported this, and it’s silly to assume that he just there to present the “anti” position. That’s not how this tribe rolls.
1) steveg has the goods, and it appears that Kelly’s role was limiting the operation to a legal path.
2) That the mischaracterization was widely reported does indeed show “how this tribe rolls.” Smear and spin, widely reported by the “responsible” press.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:26 pmWaiting for Paul’s retraction.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:27 pm264. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:14 am
You mean could have paid Stormy Daniels out of his personal funds because he paid Michael Cohen using his personal funds..
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/us/politics/trump-michael-cohen-checks.html
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:28 pmWhy then did Trump (allegedly) create false business records?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:31 pmAlvin Bragg has so structured his indictment, I think, so that Trump would be guilty even if the jury determines that Michael Cohen is, or reasonably likely might, be lying about Trump authorizing and directing him to pay Stormy Daniels prior to his payment.
This is because he is saying that Trump allegedly had issued the National Enquirer OR Michael Cohen a blank check back in August 2015.
That’s what you have to believe if you want the indictment to make sense.
I think the August, 2015 meeting (which he had from David Pecker) is the new evidence that convinced Alvin Bragg to go forward.
Otherwise Michael Cohen’s payoff is an independent expenditure –unless Michael Cohen got, as he claims, special approval of the $130,000 from Donald Trump and agreement that the reason Trump did it was because of the election.
Michael Cohen has Trump check all the boxes to be guilty of accepting an unreported and over-the-limit political contribution from himself – or maybe a un-business-like loan, also illegal.
But Cohen also says, in effector the prosecutor will say it for him, he had had a blank check from Trump because he allegedly was his “fixer”
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:38 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:31 pm
The indictment says that creating a fictitious legal obligation is a business record.
Oh, the law requires that someone be defrauded. Bragg has a general theory of fraud on the voter (but how could action taken after the election impact votes the previous November) but his fallback theory of monetary fraud is that New York State was defrauded by being paid too much in taxes by Michael Cohen!!
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/04/us/politics/trump-bookkeeping-fraud-taxes.html
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:53 pmThe National Enquirer only bought up two stories about Donald Trump after August 2015 although they had bought up plenty before
This is interesting because a “conspiracy” that simply acknowledges the status quo is a weak one, and it hardly supports the charge that they were doing it now only in support of the campaign.
If anything, it marks the National Enquirer for RICO investigation, not Trump.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:57 pmIn New York City, which he lost 80-20 or worse. It may have had effect elsewhere, but that’s not Bragg’s jurisdiction. No one in New York was “defrauded” of anything except their opportunity to voter for Joe Biden, which value those “defrauded” folks would likely have sneered at.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:01 pmIn other words, District Attorney Alvin Bragg accuses Donald Trump of defrauding New York State by causing Michael Cohen to pay too much in taxes!!
He can’t accuse Trump of defrauding Michael Cohen because Michael Cohen knew all the facts, and consented and even help devise the scheme (collecting enough extra to make a profit after taxes) and could have filed a truthful tax return if he wanted to.
So it’s New York State that was defrauded by collecting too much taxes.
Believe it or not!
Because fraud can go both ways. Taking money from some entity, or giving it money it does not deserve.
This is Alice in Wonderland territory.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:03 pmwhat the truth probably is, Michael Cohen found out that neither the National Enquirer nor Donald Trump was willing to pay Stormy Daniels $130,000 (which he had bargained down from $150.000) and so, for reasons we can only guess at, Michael Cohen decided to go ahead with it himself.
This is a key difference of fact.
Now the District Attorney is alleging a general agreement, between David Pecker, Michael Cohen and Donald Trump, which began, according to him, in August 2015, for the National Enquirer to buy up the exclusive rights to damaging stories about Donald Trump and not publish them (nicknamed “catch and kill” – which we read was a sometime practice of the National Enquirer with favored celebrities) and for the National Enquirer to be reimbursed.
The National Enquirer only bought up two stories about Donald Trump after August 2015 although they had bought up plenty before which the DA is ignoring. I’m sure David Pecker told him about the whole history of the National Enquirer with Donald Trump.
(It also helped Trump in non-monetary ways, like with that story about a supposed picture of Ted Cruz’s father with Lee Harvey Oswald, which was supposed to mean…what? he story lasted only one day because Ted Cruz pulled out of the race after losing the Indiana primary.
Bragg, it looks like, is asserting that it doesn’t matter that if Trump did not pre-approve the payment of $130,000 to Stormy Daniels because he had approved the general idea of reimbursing the National Enquirer back in August 2015!
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:12 pm@189 Stop gerrymandering was a comment. If the democrats want to do it turn about is fine with me. In ny gov. coumo didn’t want to many liberal democrats like AOC so kept gerrymandering to minimum.
asset (c20d8e) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:14 pm291.
Well, what probably happened was a renewed commitment or a decision not to change its policy with regard to Donald Trump, but Bragg is having it start in August 2015 and having the election be the only reason.
The National Enquirer has since been sold.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:16 pmWe’ll see what happens with Bragg’s case over the next eight months.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:16 pmWe know the National Enquirer had a whole vault full of stories about Donald Trump it had suppressed because Michael Cohen released part of a taped conversation in which he tried to sell Trump on buying up the archive (maybe because Trump wasn’t ready to pay 150.000 for the Karen McDougal contract alone.)
Trump wants to pay cash (which in real estate language usually means a check) but Cohen say no no, and that Allen Weisselberg had figured out a way or was figuring out the way to pay the National Enquirer.
The tape abruptly cuts off most likely because what is said further would ruin Lanny Davis’s (MC’s lawyer) spin.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:23 pmWe’ll see what happens with Bragg’s case over the next eight months.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:16 pm
What comes next in Trump’s criminal case in New York
It’s gonna be a long eight months. For whatever reason, Trump wants a trial during the Republican primary season, when he will forced to abandon the campaign trail to sit in a courtroom.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:27 pm“Ok , Chicago has lost it, Chicago is dead to me. Get rid of golem but elect Stalin. Chicago’s tax registers will no longer benefit from me. It’s Dunquirk, the Nazis are using guns against the helpless.
Everyone got a nine. Everybody want your car. Everybody want your cute wife. If you accuse me of bigotry you don’t know sit.”
Colonel Haiku (730b94) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:38 pmRip, responding to:
For whatever reason, Trump wants a trial during the Republican primary season, when he will forced to abandon the campaign trail to sit in a courtroom.
I think Trump wants to give statements entering and emerging from the dramatic background of “Deep State” courtroom where he is braving political persecution on behalf of all American
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:41 pmI just wish the feds had nailed Al Capone on more serious charges.
I mean, who among us hasn’t evaded taxes?
norcal (7b2be1) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:50 pmHe’ll have plenty of chances during the E. Jean Carroll sexual assault civil trial in about 3 weeks.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:51 pmKicks just keep getting harder to find… eh, rip.
Colonel Haiku (730b94) — 4/5/2023 @ 3:38 pmMacStrudelfarten will settle the E. Jean Carroll cases. Both of them. With NDAs, and then claim victory. Guaranteed. It’s what he does.
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 4:14 pmNo goin’ back, Wississippi. You and Chicago be sunk now.
Colonel Haiku (730b94) — 4/5/2023 @ 4:16 pmSpeaking of structuring, was anyone charged with structuring the payments to Cohen
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 4:25 pmIt’s not structuring if there are no shenanigans at the bank. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5324
nk (bb1548) — 4/5/2023 @ 4:47 pmbragg done screwed teh pooch
Colonel Haiku (730b94) — 4/5/2023 @ 4:50 pmit’s weak sauce as suspected
i’m buying that shirt
Paul
Thanks for your response.
As often happens in all things Trump, we read the same things and come to different conclusions.
I see you found Kelly was paid $120K by Hitt, I guess $120K for what Hitt called election law expertise and in context specifically Wisconsin election law expertise. It looks like Kelly gave advice that stayed within the bounds of Wisconsin election law. In the deposition, Hitt is asked if his counsel and he had discussed whether this challenge was novel in Wisconsin and he didn’t remember talking about that specifically, but certainly advice was given on the steps to be taken and statutes to follow to the letter in order to test Wisconsin election law legally.
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 4:52 pmTrump should hire Benjamin Crump. A person can leave DNA in a police car and Mr Crump can get the scalp of the police officer AND get a 7 figure payout
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 4:56 pmand internal District Attorney’s Office emails.
What happens when they find that some of the DA’s people have burner email accounts?
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 5:46 pmFor whatever reason, Trump wants a trial during the Republican primary season, when he will forced to abandon the campaign trail to sit in a courtroom.
That will BE part of the campaign. Apparently, he’s decided that martyrdom means votes and he intends to stoke the outrage all he can. I hope he has a plan on spinning “seditious conspiracy” into patriotism.
All those lackeys who have been fighting against testifying may have incriminating stories to tell. Maybe they will all try to assert the “I don’t remember” pose, but I think that just gets them perjury and obstruction charges.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 5:52 pmI’m not sure how sitting in courtroom without television coverage helps.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 5:59 pmOr an email account like Gen. Petreaus shared with his mistress where they used the gmail drafts file to communicate
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:00 pmI just wish the feds had nailed Al Capone on more serious charges.
From The Untouchables (1987):
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:01 pm@309. Takes two to tango; funny how nobody questions the motives of these two bimbette Trump-humpers who knew what they were messing with and all but attempted extortion by peddling kiss-and-tell tales about their tails. Classy dames, eh.
DCSCA (da71f3) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:04 pmAre we sure there won’t be TV coverage? Trump is the first former President to go through this, so I do not know how the courts can allow TV to cover other proceedings but not this history making event.
steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:04 pmNot happening. He was advising the Chair on Fake Electors.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:05 pmI’m not sure how sitting in courtroom without television coverage helps.
We don’t know there won’t be TV coverage. The trial of an ex-president on serious charges (like in DC or GA) would warrant TV coverage because it is in the State’s interest for his supporters to see just what a guilty F he was.
Maybe against trumped up asshat charges you don’t do that, because he could make the State look silly. But Trump can get TV coverage sleeping.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:05 pmHe was advising the Chair on Fake Electors.
As a lawyer. On how to stay inside the law. In the event that there was a late-breaking change in the ballot count. But enjoy your spin.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:07 pmI wonder what Hunter Biden recorded those checks as.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:08 pmWhat do NY taxpayers say to a rodent?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLX7kPqNwj8
DCSCA (da71f3) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:08 pmLink.
Kelly was one of the guys advising Hitt, according to Hitt’s own testimony.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:12 pmAnd so it begins…
Kennedy Heir To Challenge Biden for White House
Robert F Kennedy Jr has filed election paperwork to run for US president in 2024 as a Democrat. The 69-year-old is the son of assassinated Senator Robert F Kennedy and nephew of President John F Kennedy.
The environmental lawyer’s campaign treasurer, John E Sullivan, confirmed the filing to CNN on Wednesday.
Mr Kennedy is an outspoken anti-vaccine campaigner. Instagram removed his account in 2021 for “repeatedly sharing debunked claims”, the company said. US President Joe Biden has indicated he will run for re-election, though he has not yet formally declared his candidacy.
In March, Mr Kennedy shared on Twitter that he was considering a run for president. At the time, he said: “If I run, my top priority will be to end the corrupt merger between state and corporate power that has ruined our economy, shattered the middle class, polluted our landscapes and waters, poisoned our children, and robbed us of our values and freedoms.” – source, https://www.bbc.com/news
DCSCA (da71f3) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:14 pmThere needn’t be “extensive conversations” on the subject, Kevin. For any lawyer with an adequate understanding of the 12th Amendment and Electoral Count Act, the conversation should’ve lasted three words: “Don’t do it.”
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:14 pmI’m not alleging that Kelly did anything illegal, steveg, but he was advising the guy who went on to commit electoral fraud, who somehow got his list into the hands of Ron Johnson on J6.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:21 pmI draw a bright line on rejecting candidates who were/are election deniers or participated in the Fake Elector scam. IMO, Kelly came down on the wrong side of that line.
Will Biden exaggerate a kinship with Bobby Kennedy and plagiarize Lloyd Bentsen?
Bet on it:
“I know Bobby Kennedy. Bobby Kennedy is a bust of mine. Son, you’re no Bobby Kennedy.”
Biden displays a bust of Robert F Kennedy, the 35th president’s brother and attorney general, beside the fireplace in the Oval.
DCSCA (da71f3) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:22 pmThe boyfriend of Gavin Newsom’s Goodwill donation posted a picture of Judge Merchan’s daughter on Twitter and Truth Social. That should tell everybody how much sympathy the Trump Deviancy deserves. And the quality of its supporters.
nk (efbfca) — 4/5/2023 @ 7:25 pmnk (efbfca) — 4/5/2023 @ 7:25 pm
I wonder what Ginni Thomas thinks of this
JF (3e07f2) — 4/5/2023 @ 7:47 pmYeah, JF, every victim of a crime is happy when some little mutant spawn does the same thing to another person.
nk (efbfca) — 4/5/2023 @ 7:54 pmFor any lawyer with an adequate understanding of the 12th Amendment and Electoral Count Act, the conversation should’ve lasted three words: “Don’t do it.”
So, suppose that voters were actually discovered that would change the outcome. It happens. What is the process at that point for changing electors? Now, I do understand this was unlikely to work — it happens rarely AND there are all those other states. It’s not even a “Hail Mary” it’s so unlikely.
But they hired Kelly to answer those questions, and he did. Consider the possibility that it would have been worse if he didn’t. Is there other evidence that Kelly thought the election was stolen?
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 9:51 pmFor any lawyer with an adequate understanding of the 12th Amendment and Electoral Count Act, the conversation should’ve lasted three words: “Don’t do it.”
Note that my initial reaction was that he should have said “Are you out of your f***ing minds?” Then I contrasted the NPR piece with what steveg posted and it seemed to me that NPR’s piece found intent without evidence.
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 9:54 pmNote that I live in a state where judges are elected on an actual partisan basis, and people vote their straight D party line then complain about judges letting criminals go free.
The driver of the (stolen) red SUV in the video below is subject to a detention hearing (no cash bail here) next week. There is no certainty he will be held.
The occupants of the car he broadsided at a high rate of speed are in critical condition, including a 10yo girl wit brain bleeds, a crushed pelvis and broken femur, and damage to ribs and internal organs.
https://youtu.be/bKYwCj_kcSI?t=17
https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/new-video-shows-crash-that-left-a-father-and-daughter-in-critical-condition/
Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:14 pmHave you considered moving to a red state, Kevin?
norcal (7b2be1) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:58 pmrfk jr runs for president. Lets see if joe will debate him.
asset (fc6d0e) — 4/6/2023 @ 12:18 amCheryl Hines as First Lady? Giddyup!
norcal (7b2be1) — 4/6/2023 @ 12:35 amKevin. Paul’s preferences are well known. I don’t know why you persist.
Radical leftist who will make law from the bench than jurist who advises how to stay within the law. It’s not rocket science. It’s what any Lincoln Project conservative would advise.
NJRob (036753) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:15 am“NPR says it’s totally normal to arrest political opponents. Countries like China do it all the time.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/walkaway/comments/12cookg/npr_says_its_totally_normal_to_arrest_political/
Colonel Haiku (730b94) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:24 amGo, Jason Whitlock! Preach it!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1643780624828846081
Colonel Haiku (730b94) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:30 amClarence Thomas might have some ‘splaining to do. The federal judge at the apex of our judicial system has gotten some nice traveling and lodging perks from a megadonor by the name of Harlan Crow (the Crow of real estate titan Trammell Crow), none of which were reported on any financial disclosures.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:31 amTwitter labels NPR as ‘state-affiliated media’
The literary organization PEN America, in calling for Twitter to reverse the move, underlined that NPR “assiduously maintains editorial independence.”
LMFAO
JF (6c127d) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:33 amYes, and they’re not “radical leftist” in your another attempt to smear. I already made clear what my bright line was. If I were a Wisconsin resident, I’d write in Judge Dredd, or even Judge Reinhold, not the two choices presented.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:36 am@341 Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:31 am
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:37 amFrom propublica.org…yeah no, I wouldn’t trust anything from that Democrat propaganda outfit.
Sigh. Dan Kelly may be a Republican lawyer, but he is first a lawyer. How many billable hours can you squeeze into “No, don’t it”?
nk (efbfca) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:49 amNPR is state-affiliated media, but BBC which is supported by mandatory 12-month tax (formerly called a license) on every TV which can receive broadcast, cable, or streaming is not?
Elon Musk is an erratic kook, and all he will ever get from me is a poop emoji.
nk (efbfca) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:54 amJust to be clear, a mandatory tax in a lump sum for 12 months every 12 months. Not quite an annual tax because it’s by the month not per anniversary date.
nk (efbfca) — 4/6/2023 @ 8:03 amI’ve read Patterico’s and others’ comments about Trump’s crimes getting bumped up to felonies, and I have no doubt that Trump is a criminal. After all, he literally runs a criminal enterprise (the felony-convicted Trump Organization) and ran two corrupt organizations (Trump U and Trump Foundation) that were shut down by the courts because they fatally corrupt, but I still have questions and I can’t shake my skepticism of this case, and Professor Shugerman expresses them better than I could.
One other thing. Although the Statement of Facts includes Ms. McDougal, the felony charges all relate to Ms. Daniels, per Mr. French. Woman 1 is there because of Cohen’s guilty plea to a federal crime.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 8:33 amHere may be an opportunity for entrepeneur: As comments here sometimes remind us, some people need their asses replaced, or at least reconnected to their bodies. Perhaps someone could invent, and sell, a handy-dandy ass repair kit to help these unfortunates.
Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 4/6/2023 @ 8:45 amWell, as to the underlying crime, the defense has 28 days left to request a Bill of Particulars. The prosecution does not have to tell them how they intend to prove it, but unless the judge really hates Trump he can compel them to name it.
nk (efbfca) — 4/6/2023 @ 8:51 amAlso, “Lincoln Project conservative” is a personal smear, and I let Haiku’s jab get by without comment.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 8:55 amWhile I liked some of their commercials in their early days, once it became clear that they’re a Democrat fundraising operation that endorsed Democrats for public office, I’ve been agin ’em.
steveg @318; Kevin M @320:
New York law “currently prohibits audiovisual coverage of proceedings in which the testimony of witnesses by subpoena or other compulsory process is or may be taken.” Louisiana and the District of Columbia also have a complete ban on television coverage of trial proceedings.
However, there is a bill in the New York legislature that would allow televised trials, at the discretion of the trial judge.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 9:12 amFrom the NPR article linked on Reddit:
China is not mentioned in the article at all.
In addition, countries like Taiwan, Israel (one prime minister (Ehud Olmert) and one president (Moshe Katsav), as well as others), Peru (almost every president in the last 38 years), Argentina, Iceland, and Japan have prosecuted former leaders for corruption.
Fail!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 9:27 amBy default, I don’t trust left-of-center sources, or right-wing sources, but they established that Thomas went on these Crow-funded junkets, and they established that Thomas didn’t report any of the travel.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 9:50 amThis won’t go anywhere because the only remedy for this is impeachment and conviction, and it’s not a serious enough offense to warrant that, but don’t mean it ain’t wrong.
As Predictable As The Sun Rising in the East:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 9:56 amIndict One—And All?
No one is above the law? ROFLMAO
Horatio (56364c) — 4/6/2023 @ 10:14 amMaybe you can retool your Kari Lake Hairdo Alert app?
BuDuh (f2a9fb) — 4/6/2023 @ 10:19 am@354
He’s not required to disclose those things.
Basically, they’re mad that he’s not a liberal and has rich friends who does things together.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 10:44 am“He’s not required to disclose those things.”
Confidently incorrect.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5a/compiledact-95-521/title-I
Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:10 am“This won’t go anywhere because the only remedy for this is impeachment and conviction, and it’s not a serious enough offense to warrant that, but don’t mean it ain’t wrong.”
Reviewing the above law it looks like the only penalty for failing to file is a fine “not to exceed $50,000”
Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:15 am@359
I’m confidently CORRECT.
5 U.S.C. 13101 (14)
ProPublica, the left-wing “charity” founded by Herb Sandler to tax-shelter the billions he made on the toxic subprime mortgages that blew up the financial system, is mad that Clarence Thomas has a rich friend. That’s what this boils down to…. hating on a black man who’s not a leftist.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:23 am@359 Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:10 am
https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/financial_disclosure_filing_instructions.pdf
See page #28
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:26 amHe’s required to disclose subsidized like travel, like free private jet rides, per the Ethics in Government Act of 1978. Quote:
Like I said, it’s not impeachable, but it’s still sketchy that a public servant get a free 9-day jaunt to Indonesia valued at $500k. It sounds veritably elitist.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:29 amThe Thomas story will probably give impetus to this bill.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:31 am“I’m confidently CORRECT.
5 U.S.C. 13101 (14)”
Does not include travel.
“hating on a black man who’s not a leftist.”
You’re ridiculous.
Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:33 am#363 Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:29 am
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:41 amI’ll take this document as the source of truth:
https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/financial_disclosure_filing_instructions.pdf
Does anyone think the Supreme Court justices should not have legally binding ethics rules (like all other federal judges)?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:44 am@367 They *DO* Rip.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:50 amhttps://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/financial_disclosure_filing_instructions.pdf
They have legally binding ethics rules but there is no enforcement mechanism. The only enforcement is impeachment.
aphrael (841bdd) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:50 amWhembly, if you read down a little further:
Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:59 amOne more time on Mr. Kelly, loser of last Tuesday’s WI judicial race…
Maybe no Republican candidate could’ve beat the Democrat in this state in this cycle for this position, but the WI GOP didn’t do themselves any favors with Kelly, a MAGA and proven judicial loser.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 12:04 pmwhembly, I linked to that verysame document, even cut-and-pasted from it. Davethulhu cut-and-pasted even more from that verysame document. C’mon, man.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 12:09 pm@370 Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:59 am
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 12:13 pmYou left a very important verbiage:
…is intended to cover such gifts of a personal, non-business nature…
Everything I highlighted falls under that clause.
Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 12:22 pmProPublica notes that the document that everyone is cutting and pasting from was “recently updated”:
The 1st page of the document notes that the updates took place last month.
Honest question, Is there an earlier version that Thomas was possibly violating, or is this some sort of ex post facto jiggery-pokery that the author and his investigators had to sneak the “recently updated” wordsmithing in to cover all the bases?
I would think that the eternal hatred of Thomas and the longevity of this “scheme” would have crossed paths sometime sooner than a few days after the rules were updated. Why wasn’t he busted last year, or the year before? Everything seems so flagrant.
BuDuh (f2a9fb) — 4/6/2023 @ 12:23 pm@Davethulhu @Paul Montagu
https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/financial_disclosure_filing_instructions.pdf
Page 29 fairly spells it out.
Thomas’ trip with his rich friend is fine.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 2:16 pm“Thomas’ trip with his rich friend is fine.”
Yes, it was fine for him to accept it. He still had to report it.
Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 2:33 pmTreat Thomas like he’s a Democrat: action figures and a ticker-tape parade.
Colonel Haiku (730b94) — 4/6/2023 @ 2:43 pmSource
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:11 pmThe Code of Conduct for United States Judges
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:14 pm@379
Huh, thanks for that. I thought SC Justices were bound by the code.
O.o
So, Thomas nor any other SC Justice has to formally do anything.
Goes to show, how important SC nominations is, as it’s important to get it right the first time.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:15 pmSupreme court justices are bound by the “Ethics in Government Act of 1978” which is what all these links are referencing and what law he is accused of breaking.
Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:21 pmWho is ProPubica to accuse anyone of anything?
nk (efbfca) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:23 pmI was considering the broader lack of ethics rules for SC Justices, not just Thomas’s travel. He is basically accused of a non-enforceable failure to file a report. No biggie.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:38 pmI have read ProPubica’s lies masquerading as legal analysis before. I have forgotten what they were about, thankfully, but other commenters here also pointed them out at the time.
nk (efbfca) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:39 pmIt can be argued that it would violate the separation of powers if Congress imposed any requirements on the Supreme Court. It can be argued that the Ethics in Government Act shouldn’t apply to the courts at all.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:40 pm@382 Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:21 pm
AH, yes I vaguely remember that last year (or a few years ago?) that law was updated to include reporting requirements for stock options, ala congress critters must do.
The debate here, is what disclosure is required when extended by an individual for a non-business purpose.
Scalia was famous for hunting at his wealthy friend’s resort and I’m sure he didn’t disclose that.
Same with Kagan and Sotomeyer for staying at posh vacation homes provided by their friends at Martha’s Vinyard.
All of these jurists are savvy at their job (and has their own staff to help with stuff like this), and it’d be surprising to think that they would do anything to circumvent disclosure requirements.
Again, this is more bigotry by those who has hated Justice Thomas since he was nominated for SC.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:41 pm@386
Eh… maybe? Not sure they’re interested in waging that battle and simply comply to the best of their ability.
The Judicial Branch must give some concession to Congress, at the lease, because it is Congress that provides the judicial branch fundings.
whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:44 pmCongress regulates all the official proceedings of the federal courts. But not their lives.
nk (efbfca) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:49 pmThe real question is whether Justice Thomas ever participated in a case involving Harlan Crow or Trammell Crow.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 4:00 pmJustice Thomas’s travels are old news:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 5:30 pmSigh. The subject isn’t the receipt of the largesse, it’s the reporting.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/7/2023 @ 6:45 amHi Paul,
To engage whembly for a moment, do you know whether or not Scalia reported his trips to the desert to hunt or Kagan — stays at fancy places in Martha’s Vinyard? (I don’t and I am not casting shade here). If they did, then Thomas may have a problem.
Thomas has been a focus of the left — partly because of old bad memories, I’m sure. But also because of Ginny Thomas, and what she does for a living.
Appalled (03f53c) — 4/7/2023 @ 8:22 amOhhhh. I think someone mentioned this earlier but it didn’t register with me. O.o
The reporting requirements were recently changed.
This is propublica doing a switcharoo, and continuing their long history of ‘hating on the black man who isn’t a leftist while sitting at the scotus”.
Per Shannon Bream, J. Thomas responded:
whembly (d116f3) — 4/7/2023 @ 9:53 amhttps://twitter.com/ShannonBream/status/1644357917074759680
I don’t have an answer, but Scalia had gotten his share of scrutiny and condemnation from the Left.
Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/7/2023 @ 10:48 amSee here:
BuDuh (f2a9fb) — 4/7/2023 @ 11:17 amhttps://patterico.com/2023/04/04/trump-arraignment-open-thread/#comment-2701638
From the GOP sponsored documentary on his life:
“I prefer the RV parks. I prefer the Walmart parking lots to the beaches and things like that. There’s something normal to me about it,” Thomas said. “I come from regular stock, and I prefer that — I prefer being around that.”
Just another lying, bureaucratic government bureaucrat.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/clarence-thomas-luxury-vacations-walmart-parking-lot.html
How that search for the leaker going, Clarence?
DCSCA (3999e1) — 4/7/2023 @ 11:29 am@396 BuDuh (f2a9fb) — 4/7/2023 @ 11:17 am
whembly (d116f3) — 4/7/2023 @ 11:34 amApologies for not picking up on that!
No problem, Whembly!
BuDuh (f2a9fb) — 4/7/2023 @ 12:40 pmRip Murdock (740542) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:53 pm
An the jury doesn’t have to agree on what the underlying crime was.
But this contradicts the spirit of the 6th amendment or more. Bragg is not even arguing in the alternative. (although he dropped some hints)
This is a little like the Watergate coverup trial where they never set out to prove an underlying crime that was being covered up, IIRC.
Bragg kept his options open. Maybe he’s trying to think up more.
The underlying crime(s) could be: (as I understand it:)
1) Federal campaign law violations
2) A New York State law that criminalizes preventing any person from being elected to office by unlawful means, while acting inn a conspiracy with others (presumably another way to bring federal campaign lw within his jurisdiction
3) Fraudulently causing Michael Cohen to pay too much in income taxes to New York Stat – (Also the federal government, but this would make it a pure New York State crime)
now Michael Cohen knew all about this and did this voluntarily)
Sammy Finkelman (03b88b) — 4/9/2023 @ 12:22 pm