Patterico's Pontifications

4/4/2023

Trump in NYC: Open Thread (UPDATE ADDED)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:23 am



[guest post by Dana]

Since the charges are still unknown, there really isn’t anything new to say. What we know at this point, however, is that the former president will turn himself in this afternoon and be charged in a Manhattan courtroom. Trump’s legal team has said that Trump will plead not guilty and will challenge “every potential issue”. Also, there will reportedly be no handcuffs or mug shot, as court officials and the Secret Service have deemed it unnecessary. Also, it was ruled by Judge Merchan that cameras will not be allowed in the courtroom, but a handful of pool reporters will be allowed to take still photos before the proceedings begin.

With that, I’ll leave you with a smart observation about the rule of law being undermined:

You hear it said in responsible quarters of the right that Democrats are undermining the rule of law by handing up an indictment of Donald Trump. Sure, they acknowledge, Trump has done terrible things, but by bringing this case, Democrats are twisting the law to get at one particular defendant, and that’s not the way things should work. Further, they argue, Democrats are inviting retaliatory lawsuits in the future and setting America on the path to banana republic status. These abuses, they urge, are just as dangerous, or perhaps more dangerous than what Republicans are saying and doing in Trump’s defense.

I beg to differ. The indictment by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg is risky, but nothing about it undermines the rule of law. The risks are political and prudential. The Republicans, by contrast, are chest-deep in contempt for law.

Read the whole thing.

UPDATE: This afternoon, Trump plead not guilty to 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. Also, while no gag order was imposed, Judge Merchan made it clear that he would consider it if it proved necessary. Judge Merchan also warned Trump and his legal team, and even opposing counsel to avoid posting anything on social media that could incite violence.

The indictment is here.

The Statement of Facts is here.

–Dana

400 Responses to “Trump in NYC: Open Thread (UPDATE ADDED)”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. Somehow, I doubt Ms. Charen will extend the same courtesy if a DA has President Obama arrested for murder.

    https://www.aclu.org/video/aclu-ccr-lawsuit-american-boy-killed-us-drone-strike

    I could be wrong.

    Joe (a42613)

  3. Does Bragg prosecute ordinary crime in NYC? That wasn’t my impression. He has a policy of not prosecuting ordinary crime. (That is, the sort of crime that harms people.)

    The Never Trump people have become Democrats, and so defend the behavior of the Democratic party as a matter of course. Crime is soaring in NYC, but so what? This was never about policy, anyway.

    I think that some AUSA should zealously prosecute any Democratic staffers or campaign workers who use marijuana. Nobody is above the law, after all.

    mikeybates (41a403)

  4. I think Alvin Bragg actually believes in this case.

    He was under too much pressure and his judgment, which wasn’t so great in the first place, gave way. Somebody “sold” this case to him.

    He probably thinks he has new evidence that justifies why he did this when Cyrus Vance didn’t.

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01)

  5. Trump’s motorcade left from Trump Tower via an unannounced route, but will probably use the FDR Drive, instead of local streets, to fake out potential attackers

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01)

  6. Never forget, Mona Charen was one of the original ‘NeverTrumper’s” who essayed in the January 22, 2016 issue of National Review along w/other establishment ideologues opposing Mr. Trump’s run for the GOP nomination- which he eventually won and went on to win the presidency. Charen, along with others, like Bill Kristol, remains one of the many out-of-favor, rejected ideologues, ‘brushed out of the tail that no longer wags the dog’ by the GOP electorate and the relentless rise of populism, which now is the majority of that GOP base. And it keeps growing.

    DCSCA (4bb51c)

  7. Donald Trump arrived at Manhattan Criminal Court and waved to the cameras. He will go in through a side door and taken using the judge’s private elevator, to the 7th floor, where he will be arrested. Most of the courthouse has been cleared out especially the 15th floor,

    After the proceedings, Donald Trump will head to the his plane at the airport and fly to Florida where he has scheduled a speech or statement for 8:15 pm.

    We still don’t know more about the indictment except MC claims the case has lots of documents

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01)

  8. Thanks for letting me know the Bulwark will make any excuse to get Trump. I never woul’ve guessed that was the case.

    When all you have is a hammer…

    NJRob (25c545)

  9. The real longer term tragedy here for the U.S. is the partisan weaponizing of the tattered justice system for a political prosecution/persecution. [Can’t nail him at the ballot box or run a better candidate so nail him to a cross.] And that’s not particularly ‘exceptional’ to other lands around the globe. So much for the bravado of ‘American exceptionalism.’

    … and the rest of the world smiled.

    “Man, you’re just like the rest of us– ain’t ‘ya.” – Chief Bill Gillespie [Rod Steiger] ‘In The Heat Of The Night’ 1967

    DCSCA (4bb51c)

  10. If you want to get charged by Alvin Bragg there are two brightly lit paths.

    1. Disarm your attacker and turn the weapon on him.

    “A New York City parking garage attendant was hit with an attempted murder charge after confronting an armed thief and wrestling the gun away before opening fire on the suspect.
    The man then pulled a gun on Diarra, who attempted to grab the firearm. The gun was fired, leaving Diarra with a shot to the stomach and grazed in the ear by a bullet.
    Diarra proceeded to turn the firearm on the potential thief and shot him in the chest.
    Moussa Diarra, 57, is also charged with assault and criminal possession of a weapon in connection with the incident that occurred at around 5:30 a.m. Saturday morning.”

    2. Political malfeasance by Republicans because its really hard to find corrupt Democrats in NYC?

    Critique from the Trump burnishers at Vox:
    Does it involve scrutiny and an investment of resources that would not have been put on anyone else? It’s hard for me to imagine that this years-long investment of resources into this topic would be brought against anyone other than Trump.

    Do those bringing the case have obvious political motives? Bragg is an elected Democrat who, if he runs for another term, would be running in Democratic New York City. When he initially put the brakes on Vance’s investigation, he faced intense backlash from progressives who thought he was letting Trump off the hook. So, yes, he has a motive to get back on progressives’ good side.

    A second Trump term, should he win, would probably also be quite dangerous for the rule of law.
    Many liberals who have been hoping and arguing for Trump’s indictment seem to have this justification in mind, even if few will say it explicitly. In 2021, when it looked like Bragg’s predecessor, Vance, might bring charges, he was profiled in the New Yorker…

    steveg (d930cf)

  11. DCSCA,

    Your average global citizen believes Donald Trump violated the law. Where they might be sniggering is that the best the US can come up with is hush money payments to Stormy Daniels. We will see if that is genuinely the case, or just clever Trump spin. If Bragg is any good, he has charged stuff that have nothing to do with Stormy, so that it can be put out there by a surprised media.

    In the meantime, we can continue to be frustrated that all the other investigations are just piddling along — even the Georgia one that is backed up by tape recordings in the public domain. Love to know if our host has opinions on why it takes so long to bring someone like Trump to the courtroom? In fairness to the country, this should have been dealt with in 2021-2022.

    Appalled (f5f6fe)

  12. The judge is getting ready to take the bench.

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01)

  13. 8. The Bulwark has seven possible investigation/crimes by Donald Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01)

  14. I doubt Ms. Charen will extend the same courtesy if a DA has President Obama arrested for murder.

    Even though it was murder (and there was zero due process), Obama wouldn’t be charged for such an act because the strike was approved and executed by the Office of the President, not him personally.

    I’m trying to bite my tongue until the indictment comes out.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  15. Sammy,

    The Bulwark gets their funding by being NeverTrump. That’s their market.

    NJRob (25c545)

  16. “A New York City parking garage attendant was hit with an attempted murder charge after confronting an armed thief and wrestling the gun away before opening fire on the suspect.

    The man then pulled a gun on Diarra, who attempted to grab the firearm. The gun was fired, leaving Diarra with a shot to the stomach and grazed in the ear by a bullet.
    Diarra proceeded to turn the firearm on the potential thief and shot him in the chest.

    Moussa Diarra, 57, is also charged with assault and criminal possession of a weapon in connection with the incident that occurred at around 5:30 a.m. Saturday morning.”

    Not any more.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  17. The phrase “Trump surrendered to authorities” must grate on his tender psyche.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  18. The US has been the exception among Western democracies that don’t hold their former leaders accountable for crimes. South Korea (at least three presidents), France (two different presidents), Italy, Taiwan, Israel (one prime minister and one president), Peru (almost every president in the last 38 years), Argentina, Brazil, Iceland, and Japan come to mind.

    America means never having to say you’re sorry.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  19. The Bulwark gets their funding by being NeverTrump. That’s their market.

    Indeed. This group now has a financial interest in Trump being in the news constantly. In addition, their readers, donors, and listeners are mostly Democrats, and so they will find a reason to oppose any Republican nominee for any office. (They opposed Youngkin, for example.) With DeSantis, if it wasn’t that he isn’t critical enough of Trump, it would have been that he is mean to Disney, or too pro-life, or supports education reform, etc., etc.

    We see the same thing with someone like Evan McMullin- he became a Democrat to run for Senate in Utah, and promptly changed his view on abortion. Not unusual, of course, but jarring for someone in a group that loudly advertises itself as “principled” and criticizes anyone who disagrees as unprincipled.

    mikeybates (41a403)

  20. Charen: ‘The antisemitic overtones of the “Soros-funded” meme did not inhibit Mike Pompeo or Elise Stefanik from repeating it.’

    Soros is off limits now.

    As I said in the other thread, in this race to the bottom my money is on NeverTrump.

    JF (476a26)

  21. @11. Your average ‘global citizen’ believes Donald Trump violated the law. Where they might be sni[cker]ing is that the best the US can come up with is hush money payments to Stormy Daniels…

    ROFLMAOPIP. This is a battle between the Establishment Royalists and the Populists. Certainly the French are chuckling- given their history of leaders and liaisons w/mistresses. And if a perception of ‘violating the law’ is your metric, then ‘your average global citizen’ also believes several U.S. presidents and their minions “violated the law”–

    War Criminals Among Us: Bush, Cheney, and the Eyes of the World

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a35397/bush-cheney-war-crimes/

    And, lest you forget, Clinton and the intern; Reagan and Iran Contra; Nixon and Watergate as well as his treason via Chennault [https://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason]; LBJ faking the Gulf of Tonkin incident; JFK’s sanctioned coup in 1963 in Vietnam that resulted in Diem’s death just weeks prior to his own assassination. Ike’s backing the CIA coup ousting the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953…

    And in so far as why so long, the judicial system is far too bureaucratic, glacial and cavalier w/time. It is two tiered, to say the least: a NYT reporter grilled the WH just today on why the Biden administration won’t comment on the ‘on going’ Trump case yet had no problem commenting on the ‘on going’ Jan. 6 cases. It’s two tiered and it just sucks– as most Americans know. My own experience includes dealing four paper shuffling lawyers, an incompetent judge who does not read briefs prepared for him for a simple probate issue on a modest estate still in the courts after three years. This is what fuels populism.

    DCSCA (b7dc65)

  22. focusing on one Republican, while the world burns around them, is the hallmark of a NeverTrump hero

    Terrifying rap sheets of the ten worst NYC criminals who were REPEATEDLY released by Manhattan DA Bragg as he focused on Trump indictment

    Manhattan District Attorney, Alvin Bragg, and his team have arrested former President Donald Trump, while some of NYC’s worst criminals still roam the streets.

    New Yorkers who survived the city during the pandemic remember the long months when Bragg’s office became a revolving door for career criminals who hit up the streets in broad daylight and had many fearing the subways.

    While Bragg’s office was preparing to indict Trump, he let violent reoffenders continue to wreak havoc.

    In August, Mayor Eric Adams revealed that the same 10 criminals made up nearly 500 crimes and that 60 percent of them were still roaming the streets at that time.

    JF (476a26)

  23. @18. Israel, too– Netanyahu; indicted and elected Israeli PM again.

    DCSCA (b7dc65)

  24. The day goes from bad to worse for Donald Trump:

    ……..
    In a sealed order, a three-judge panel of the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals denied Trump’s urgent demand to block his aides from being required to appear before special counsel Jack Smith’s grand jury. Trump’s emergency motion triggered a frenzied set of overnight filings ahead of the Tuesday morning ruling.

    It’s not immediately clear which aides were covered by the appeals court order, but Trump recently lost a bid to prevent top allies like Mark Meadows, Dan Scavino and Stephen Miller from answering questions he says should be covered by executive privilege. Trump appealed that ruling — issued in mid-March by U.S. District Court Judge Beryl Howell — last week, leading to the appeals court fight.

    CNN has reported that the aides covered by Trump’s emergency order may include Meadows, Scavino, Miller and other former top Trump administration advisers like Robert O’Brien, John Ratcliffe and Ken Cuccinelli.
    ………..
    The three-judge panel that rejected Trump’s emergency motion consisted of Judges Patricia Millett, Robert Wilkins and Gregory Katsas. Millett and Wilkins are both appointees of former President Barack Obama, while Katsas was appointed by Trump. The appeals court’s action denying the motion was recorded in its public docket, although the actual order issued by the court and all other pleadings related to the dispute remain sealed.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  25. I am not watching television. What do we know? Anything?

    All I have seen is: 34 charges, conspiracy, falsification, looks like it’s all about payoffs to women (?), Jr. posts the judge’s daughter’s pic on Twitter as part of a link to a Breitbart story arguing the judge is biased because his daughter has volunteered for Biden, no mugshot . . . what am I missing?

    I have seen no indictment. If anyone finds it, please post it — although I assume it will be all over Twitter once it is public.

    Patterico (e572ad)

  26. They want to take it to trial in January, 2024– as primary season rolls out. Imagine that.

    DCSCA (b7dc65)

  27. Statement of Facts. This is more interesting.

    https://www.manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-SOF.pdf

    Patterico (e572ad)

  28. Bragg is about to do a live TeeVee presser on this.

    DCSCA (b7dc65)

  29. https://youtu.be/DCRyNREHe8M

    The afterglow…

    Colonel Haiku (ad4c64)

  30. I’m not familiar with all the dates on the whole Stormy Daniels thing — but this reads like 34 felony counts counts that track the payment of Stormy through Trump’s and the Trump organization’s financial records. (Is Karen McDougal included on this?). Love that Valentine’s Day, 2017 is a key date in all this.

    Appalled (f5f6fe)

  31. Karen McDougal is indeed included.

    Patterico (e572ad)

  32. The funny thing to me is that Trump didn’t need to do any of this. He would have won the 2016 election anyway, and it wouldn’t have hurt him in 2020, either.

    In other words, he overestimated the American people.

    norcal (7b2be1)

  33. “He’s indicted and it feels so good!”

    —- Peaches & Herb

    Colonel Haiku (ad4c64)

  34. There are any number of public officials who are immune to suit over how they do their job, and in some cases that immunity has led to severe miscarriages of justice. For a judge to talk about “no one is above the law” belies the judge’s immunity from suits over clearly wrongful actions on the bench, such as knowingly ignoring</s, um, being mistaken about the law to the detriment of a defendant. I'm not aware of any judge imprisoned for being an asshat on the bench.

    In what the trial judge called the worst case of prosecutorial misconduct he'd ever seen, the federal prosecutors who hid exculpatory evidence and suborned perjury in the trial of the late Senator Ted Stevens were not charged with a crime. While the verdict was vacated, Stevens was defeated in an election immediately following, giving Barack Obama the 60th vote he needed to defeat any filibuster.

    So, the Rule of Law is honored only sometimes and, for those covered by a presumption of immunity, citing it is comparable to a President wrapping himself in the flag and talking about Lincoln.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  35. “Hoping for more” is the wrong way to think about this, I guess. Expecting that the DA would have the judgment to realize that the salacious subject matter and mid-level criminality made this a dubious set of charges to bring against Trump might be the right way. Was there a concern about a looming statute of limitations deadline?

    Appalled (f5f6fe)

  36. I miss the preview.

    There are any number of public officials who are immune to suit over how they do their job, and in some cases that immunity has led to severe miscarriages of justice. For a judge to talk about “no one is above the law” belies the judge’s immunity from suits over clearly wrongful actions on the bench, such as knowingly ignoring, um, being mistaken about the law to the detriment of a defendant. I’m not aware of any judge imprisoned for being an asshat on the bench.

    In what the trial judge called the worst case of prosecutorial misconduct he’d ever seen, the federal prosecutors who hid exculpatory evidence and suborned perjury in the trial of the late Senator Ted Stevens were not charged with a crime. While the verdict was vacated, Stevens was defeated in an election immediately following, giving Barack Obama the 60th vote he needed to defeat any filibuster.

    So, the Rule of Law is honored only sometimes and, for those covered by a presumption of immunity, citing it is comparable to a President wrapping himself in the flag and talking about Lincoln.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  37. Ha!

    I said this in 2018:

    With the official cooperation of AMI (the owner of the National Enquirer) with federal prosecutors, the potential campaign finance violations case against Donald Trump is looking stronger and stronger all the time. Stronger, in fact, than the John Edwards case.

    There are many details that go into that conclusion, but let’s review two. Yesterday an agreement was made public between the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York and AMI. The agreement contains this passage:

    In or about August 2015, David Pecker, the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of AMI, met with Michael Cohen, an attorney for a presidential candidate, and at least one other member of the campaign. At the meeting, Pecker offered to help deal with negative stories about that presidential candidate’s relationships with women by, among other things, assisting the campaign in identifying such stories so they could be purchased and their publication avoided. Pecker agreed to keep Cohen apprised of any such negative stories.

    If any of this sounds familiar, it’s because the Wall Street Journal reported it on November 9 (credit to Justin Miller for catching this):

    As a presidential candidate in August 2015, Donald Trump huddled with a longtime friend, media executive David Pecker, in his cluttered 26th floor Trump Tower office and made a request.

    What can you do to help my campaign? he asked, according to people familiar with the meeting.

    Mr. Pecker, chief executive of American Media Inc., offered to use his National Enquirer tabloid to buy the silence of women if they tried to publicize alleged sexual encounters with Mr. Trump.

    Now, most of the details of that WSJ story have been corroborated by federal prosecutors in their agreement with AMI. The one key detail federal prosecutors did not yet say explicitly is who the “other member of the campaign” was. If the WSJ is correct, that member was Donald Trump.

    Check out paragraph 9 of the Statement of Facts.

    It was Trump.

    Patterico (e572ad)

  38. Rule of Law

    Rule of Prosecutors

    Americans are learning the difference

    JF (1eb1ae)

  39. Was there a concern about a looming statute of limitations deadline?

    Well, it’s hard to say since the statutory limit is 5 years, and these payments were made in October 2016, after Daniels demanded them of she’d hit him with an October surprise. (I assume that she got immunity for her extortion, a matter that will come up at trial.) So, normally October, 2021 would be the expiration.

    But NY case law says that the statute is tolled every day that the culprit is out of state. Which Trump was for most of his presidency and most of the time afterwards, so it doesn’t seem like the statute was a major concern.

    Maybe they were worried that too much delay might feed into arguments that the tolling was unreasonable in Trump’s case (his whereabouts where known at all times). We’ll see, as that argument is sure to be made.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  40. If the tolling during his 4 years with presidential immunities would be more reasonable (an obvious fallback position for the DA) then October 2024 would be the limitation. Again no rush, and some might like the idea of charging him about then.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  41. It’s surreal split screen television. Trump’s 757 soaring into the clouds on the right, Bragg speaking on the left. But one thing is certain about Bragg: he passed the NY State Bar… and every salad bar. 😉

    DCSCA (b7dc65)

  42. Statement of Facts.

    Statement of Allegations would be a better title. Trump actually gets a trial before any “facts” are found.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  43. The funny thing to me is that Trump didn’t need to do any of this. He would have won the 2016 election anyway, and it wouldn’t have hurt him in 2020, either.

    In other words, he overestimated the American people.

    norcal (7b2be1) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:04 pm

    He was more afraid of Melania than the voters.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  44. “He’s indicted and it feels so good!”

    —- Peaches & Herb

    Colonel Haiku (ad4c64) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:07 pm

    😁

    norcal (7b2be1)

  45. He was more afraid of Melania than the voters.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:27 pm

    Even in that case, he didn’t need to do it. The tryst became public knowledge anyway, and Melania is still with him.

    Perhaps he overestimated Melania as well.

    norcal (7b2be1)

  46. The Manhattan DA is suggesting a January 2024 trial date and Trump’s attorneys suggest April 2024. By that time Trump could be traveling between New York, Georgia, and DC for his trials.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  47. FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE. Looks much more menacing when repeated in all caps. Falsifying business records in the first degree is underwhelming by comparison. My first pass guess at this? Trump is in worse trouble with Melania over Valentines Day 2017 than he is over the business records.

    steveg (d930cf)

  48. I read the Statement of Facts and a couple pages of the indictment. I’m not seeing exactly what crimes were being concealed, or were attempting to conceal, and that’s what elevates Trump’s crimes to felonies, right? Anyone?

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  49. Let’s say that a candidate and the director of a PAC have early discussions about the PAC supporting him in the coming election and the candidate agrees that it would be helpful, but demands that they should reflect his official position statements and not put words in his mouth.

    Would subsequent PAC-produced commercials that held to these restrictions be viewed as impermissible donations? Or does one have to show that the campaign participated in and/or controlled the production of some actual commercials?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  50. Karen McDougal is indeed included.

    You predicted the media will be talking about her. Always trust content by Patterico.

    DRJ (427e62)

  51. 8. 13 The Bulwark has seven possible investigation/crimes by Donald Trump.

    https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/all-the-trump-indictments-everywhere-all

    …Jonathan V. Last
    Mar 23…

    want to give you a little bit of prep work for tonight’s livestream, because it is kind of breathtaking how many investigations are swirling, simultaneously. Per Kim Wehle’s breakdown, we have:

    Mar-a-Lago classified docs. (DoJ, led by special counsel Jack Smith.)

    Criminal wrongdoing regarding January 6 assault on the Capitol. (DoJ, also led by Smith.)

    Election fraud in the state of Georgia. (Fulton County, Georgia, District Attorney Fani Willis.)

    Various investigations into Trump’s business behavior. (New York State Attorney General Letitia James; Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.)

    The Stormy Daniels hush money. (Manhattan DA Bragg.)

    A securities fraud investigation into Truth Social’s merger with DWAC. (SEC and DoJ.)

    That last one’s new to me.

    Original source Bulwark article March 20 by Kimberly Wehle

    https://www.thebulwark.com/the-trump-investigation-you-probably-havent-heard-about/

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  52. NJRob (25c545) — 4/4/2023 @ 11:56 am

    The Bulwark gets their funding by being NeverTrump. That’s their market.

    You can be honest and fair and NeverTrump, or you can be biased and dishonest.

    Their funding may require them never to echo Democratic talking points ad maybe never criticize any Democrat for being dishonest.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  53. Perhaps he overestimated Melania as well.

    norcal (7b2be1) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:33 pm

    She’s in it for the money.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  54. I see in the Statement that Patterico linked (thank you) the paragraph 9 that he feels shows some level of collusion, but doesn’t actually connect with any subsequent case. The allegation in paragraph 10 is similarly divorced from active campaign control.

    In paragraph 11, there is some allegation of collusion, and in pp 12 – 15 a suggestion of active Trump involvement in the National Enquirer situation. However the campaign and Enquirer did not carry out the planned transaction, making this merely a conspiracy that was not actually executed. Trump actually falsified no documents here.

    It will be interesting to see how they came to this belief. If it’s just Cohen, the tax felon and perjurer, it might be hard to convince a jury, especially since Cohen got a sweetheart deal on the tax charges in return for his story.

    The rest of the recital concerns the Stormy mishegas, and all the charges in the indictment relate to this. Apparently, Trump is being charged for each of the $35,000 installments, along with the way they were reported by himself and by Cohen, as separate felonies ass in support of the same “illegal campaign contribution.”

    While I don’t envy Trump’s chances in the J6 case(s) or the Fulton County case(s), I think that the defense has far better chances here.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  55. Ric Grenell Calls on GOP Candidates to Drop Out, Endorse Trump After Indictment

    He made the same call last week, and it’s why I think that DeSantis might want to stay out, at least for now. I think there’s only two GOP candidates of any note already in the race, and Asa Hutchinson entered the race after Trump’s indictment became likely. I doubt that Nikki Haley is going anywhere either.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  56. Rip:

    You should have quoted the awesome lack of coherence in your link. It’s something to behold:

    Look, I think that it’s really important to understand what Democrats are doing to Republicans. And you’re naive to think that this is just about Donald Trump. This is about every single Republican; anyone who challenges the power of the Democrats. And so I think… all the other Republican candidates should drop out tonight. They should announce their support for Donald Trump. We should unify as a party and say we are not going to allow this to happen to the United States of America.

    I think for the people who maybe have been on the fence about Trump, maybe they don’t like mean tweets or something, I think they have to understand that you have to stop asking Donald Trump to be a nice guy because nice guys are what the Democrats want. They want us as Republicans to take this high road and they don’t want a fighter. They don’t want someone who is going to come in and change the system. So they keep calling for someone presidential or something and I think they’ve got to stop.

    Appalled (f5f6fe)

  57. Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:18 pm

    the statutory limit is 5 years, and these payments were made in October 2016, after Daniels demanded them of she’d hit him with an October surprise… normally October, 2021 would be the expiration.

    The underlying possible crime dates from about August 2015 to December 2016, but the falsifying of business records went on until nearly 2018.

    So the five years ends about January, 2023.

    34 nearly identical counts of falsifying business records in the first degree. New York County District Attorney says New York City is an important business center and falsifying records is serious. Also that telling the truth would have amounted confessing to a crime — he doesn’t say what crime.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  58. He was more afraid of Melania than the voters.

    I’m pretty sure the prenup covered this. Her divorcing Trump for any reason that aggravated assault would probably leave her penniless.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  59. The Manhattan DA is suggesting a January 2024 trial date and Trump’s attorneys suggest April 2024. By that time Trump could be traveling between New York, Georgia, and DC for his trials.

    He should demand a speedy trial. If he’s going to win one, it will be this one. Winning early will undermine the other prosecutions.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  60. 51. Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 1:46 pm

    Or does one have to show that the campaign participated in and/or controlled the production of some actual commercials?

    In practice there’s a lot of leeway, or three quarters of all members of Congress and any presidential candidate who engaged in joint financing with a PAC would be under indictment.

    But it’s hard to nail down collusion.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  61. New York County District Attorney says New York City is an important business center and falsifying records is serious. Also that telling the truth would have amounted confessing to a crime — he doesn’t say what crime.

    Well, that’s interesting. Is he being prosecuted for not confessing to a crime? Did the falsified records defraud anyone in the sense they relied upon the records for financial decisions?

    Reasonable Doubt is all they need.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  62. * Her divorcing Trump for any reason thaN aggravated assault would probably leave her penniless.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  63. 62. Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:06 pm

    He should demand a speedy trial. If he’s going to win one, it will be this one. Winning early will undermine the other prosecutions.

    Well, it would be true politically.

    Any other charges could supersede these in attention. It takes time just to get all the discovery and file motions. I heard it’s possible that some of these other cases could get to trial first.

    This case could also be dismissed on several legal grounds. (not stating a crime basically)

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  64. A good explainer about the prosecution of falsifying records in the first degree in NY:

    A core crime that the Manhattan District Attorney will likely include in an indictment of former President Donald Trump is “falsifying business records in the first degree,” a felony under New York State law (N.Y. Penal Code § 175.10). Prosecutors and indeed all of us are compelled by the rule of law to consider how such a charge compares to past prosecutions. Are like cases being treated alike?

    Here it appears they are. Prosecution of falsifying business records in the first degree is commonplace and has been used by New York district attorneys’ offices to hold to account a breadth of criminal behavior from the more petty and simple to the more serious and highly organized. We reach this conclusion after surveying the past decade and a half of criminal cases across all the New York district attorneys’ offices.

    Dana (1225fc)

  65. I am disappointed. There are many questionable business practices and actual criminal convictions surrounding Trump and his companies. To make this only about Daniels and McDougal seems like criminalizing adultery and its cover up, something that was rejected with Clinton and Edward’s.

    The charges are legitimate but there was more they could charge. I think Joe Citizen would have been charged.

    DRJ (0abb72)

  66. Trumpster republicans in tennessee to oust democrat members in state leg. who marched in gun control protest march of school shooting in retaliation for trump indictment. (DU)

    asset (d513e0)

  67. @56. Of course. She’s ‘officially’ number 3 on the runway [with some Stormy & Karen cross traffic, if not more] and she renegotiated her prenup:

    Melania Trump used newfound leverage to redo prenup after election win, new book says

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/melania-trump-used-newfound-leverage-redo-prenup-after-election-win-n1230471

    DCSCA (3d6799)

  68. Skimmed the indictment. Seems like pretty weak sauce to me.

    Time123 (07c2cb)

  69. So the five years ends about January, 2023.

    IANAL, but I think that the crime that justifies making these misdemeanors into felonies occurred in October 2016. Perhaps a falsification to cover a crime that cannot currently be charged is still a felony. The lawyers probably know.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  70. MAGAland Marge responds to Trump’s indictment/arraignment:

    “President Trump is joining some of the most incredible people in history being arrested today. Nelson Mandela was arrested; served time in prison. Jesus. Jesus was arrested and murdered by the Roman government,” she said.

    Dana (1225fc)

  71. Looking again at the indictment, it would seem that Statements of Fact through paragraph 15 are immaterial as they do not result in any charge.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  72. I’m curious, do our resident anti-anti-Trump view this as a win or a loss?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  73. When you don’t have the real thing, fake it.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  74. Anyone know what the NY jurisdiction is on this? Does the business record need to be a for a business registered in NY? Do the events need to happen in NY?

    I’m ignorant here and would like one of the smarter ppl on this blog to help educate me. In exchange you’ll have my deep appreciation and the joy of helping someone learn.

    Being a little flippant because I have no basis to expect anyone to spend their time in such a way and I know it.

    Time123 (07c2cb)

  75. President Grant was also arrested (for repeated speeding in his buggy), and defaulted on his $20 bond when he did not appear in court.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/04/nyregion/ulysses-grant-trump-arrest.html

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  76. @69

    Trumpster republicans in tennessee to oust democrat members in state leg. who marched in gun control protest march of school shooting in retaliation for trump indictment. (DU)

    asset (d513e0) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:13 pm

    The protestor shut down leg businesses.

    Last I heard, that was “insurrectionist”.

    Thems the rules.

    whembly (d116f3)

  77. As far as lamenting The Bulwark or Fox or any other news source, can well all agree that “objective journalism” is as dead as Caesar? Some outlets (WaPo, NYT) care about getting the facts right, and using proper English, but they long ago lost the battle with bias and activism, just like all the others.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  78. The doorman story is new to me but apparently it is not new (but another question is: Is it true? Or did the National Enquirer pay money to keep a lie (or a misunderstanding) secret and s it a violation of campaign finance law in any case)

    https://nypost.com/2018/08/25/doorman-who-sold-story-of-alleged-trump-love-child-to-ami-says-hes-free-to-talk-now

    Rumors of the shelved story surfaced in April, in a report that Sajudin had been paid $30,000 to tell the tabloid about his allegation.

    But the unnamed woman at the center of the story “emphatically” denied that she had an affair with Trump.

    “This is all fake,” she previously told the Associated Press.

    Trump’s not paying child support, apparently, and he surely would be if he had fathered her child. (or signed some kind of excuse to pay her a lot of money)

    The woman in question was his housekeeper. Now that true in the case of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Baena

    …In 2010, at the age of 13, Baena learned his biological father was Arnold Schwarzenegger, when the media revealed the fact the day after Schwarzenegger’s term as governor concluded.[3]

    In 2011, he achieved some notoriety in tabloids when Schwarzenegger admitted conceiving him in an adulterous affair with a former household staffer, Mildred Baena, while he was married to Maria Shriver…

    We would know by now if it was true.

    So the National Enquirer suppressed a lie or a suspicion.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  79. Am I missing something in the statement of facts?

    What is the specific federal law Trump violated??

    But, hey, I’m not a lawyer so it must be somewhere my eyeballs isn’t landing… o.O

    whembly (d116f3)

  80. America means never having to say you’re sorry.

    Up until recently, America made batter choices than those other countries.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  81. He should demand a speedy trial. If he’s going to win one, it will be this one. Winning early will undermine the other prosecutions.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:06 pm

    A speedy trial will preclude the dozens of motions that Trump intends to file to challenge the charges, the judge, the venue, etc. If he wants a speedy trial he won’t be able to do so. In fact, the next hearing in this case is in December. And Trump already has trial scheduled for next month.

    Prosecutors said that they intended to request a January 2024 trial date; Mr. Trump’s defense lawyers objected to that request before case material had been handed over to them, and Mr. Blanche said that the spring of next year might be more “realistic.”

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  82. 77. Time123 (07c2cb) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:19 pm

    Anyone know what the NY jurisdiction is on this? Does the business record need to be a for a business registered in NY? Do the events need to happen in NY?

    I think the events – the events being the bookkeeping – need to happen not only in New York, but in New York County (Manhattan) for Bragg to have jurisdiction. he crime being hidden can have taken place anywhere.
    t

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  83. Am I missing something in the statement of facts?

    What is the specific federal law Trump violated??

    But, hey, I’m not a lawyer so it must be somewhere my eyeballs isn’t landing… o.O

    whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:28 pm

    No federal laws are involved, this is strictly a New York State case.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  84. a three-judge panel of the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals denied Trump’s urgent demand to block his aides from being required to appear before special counsel Jack Smith’s grand jury.

    It’s long established that Executive Privilege does not extend to criminal conduct by the Executive. If you read the minutes of the 1787 Convention, you’d know that the Founders would have been, if anything, harsher. They had no truce with kings.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  85. By the way, the alleged Professor Moriarty of politics looks like he has no involvement here:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/george-soros-denies-knowing-donating-alvin-bragg-1234707055

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  86. It’s long established that Executive Privilege does not extend to criminal conduct by the Executive.

    It’s also a long established principle that executive privilege belongs to the current, not former President.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  87. @86

    No federal laws are involved, this is strictly a New York State case.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:32 pm

    So, what was the “intent to commit another crime” that would elevate this to a felony?

    whembly (d116f3)

  88. By the way, the alleged Professor Moriarty of politics looks like he has no involvement here:
    ……..
    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:34 pm

    Which is true, but Bragg received donations from his children.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  89. Karen McDougal is indeed included.

    Not a single charge relates to, or even references her.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  90. Dana’s very helpful piece says:

    “An individual “is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.” N.Y. Penal Code § 175.10.

    For Trump to be prosecuted for felony violation of falsifying business records, the statute requires the DA to prove not only that Trump is guilty of falsifying business records (a misdemeanor), but that he did so with the intent to commit “another crime,” or aiding or concealing the commission of ‘another crime.'”

    So what is the “other crime?” I think that’s what Paul Montague was asking too. Seems to be the million dollar question.

    Re: the doorman story, I remember reading of Trump having a child with a housekeeper, the two of whom were both then secreted away to live in anonymity. The kid would be in his 30s now I guess. Rick Wilson will occasionally hint darkly at this story on twitter.

    JRH (817a04)

  91. @90 It may be an artifact that this is a state indictment. I’m pretty sure states don’t have to annouce the bits and bobs in these charging/statement of fact documents.

    Right? I’d imagine the standards can be different between states and even federal courts.

    whembly (d116f3)

  92. 73. Pontius Pilate was eventually removed by the Roman Emperor Tiberius for his bad deeds.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  93. @95 JRH (817a04) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:38 pm

    Right… what were the “another crime,” or aiding or concealing the commission of ‘another crime’ in this context?

    whembly (d116f3)

  94. And Christopher Columbus was taken back to Spain in chains for his misdeeds.

    How many people know that?

    Columbus was released, but after that he was strictly an explorer.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  95. “I’m curious, do our resident anti-anti-Trump view this as a win or a loss?“

    My take on the whole enchilada…

    https://youtu.be/DCRyNREHe8M

    Colonel Haiku (cf18d8)

  96. To make this only about Daniels and McDougal seems like criminalizing adultery and its cover up

    It’s not even about McDougal at all.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  97. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:36 pm

    Bragg received donations from his children.

    Ah. Of course his children are running things now, anyway.

    Were they small or big donations? Even small ones prove what Bragg’s politics are – but we know that without knowing specific donors.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  98. I hope all the donkeys get their cookie!

    Colonel Haiku (cf18d8)

  99. So, what was the “intent to commit another crime” that would elevate this to a felony?

    whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:35 pm

    The “other crime” was violating New York’s election laws. From the Statement of Facts:

    2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of various entities in New York. The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme.

    My emphasis.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  100. I’m curious, do our resident anti-anti-Trump view this as a win or a loss?

    Can one be #NeverTrump and anti-anti-Trump at the same time? In any event I view it as a win, as it seems quite beatable. As others have pointed out, the Trump Organization is a criminal enterprise. But maybe proving it on Mr Big is hard to do. “If only Trump knew!”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  101. I think this woman is Karen McDougal:

    AMI ultimately paid $150,000 to Woman 1 in exchange for her agreement not to speak out about the alleged sexual relationship, as well as for two magazine cover features of Woman 1 and a series of articles that would be published under her byline. AMI falsely characterized this payment in AMI’s books and records, including in its general ledger. The AMI CEO agreed to the deal after discussing it with both the Defendant and Lawyer A, and on the understanding from Lawyer A that the Defendant or the Trump Organization would reimburse AMI.

    Maybe “Lawyer A” told that to the National Enquirer, but he didn’t tell Trump!

    Cohen is on tape trying to persuade Trump to send money to the National Enquirer because David Pecker might one day no longer be in carge and they would publish the story. That day, of course, being well after the election.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  102. A speedy trial will preclude the dozens of motions that Trump intends to file to challenge the charges, the judge, the venue, etc.

    Stupid lawyer games, making motions that don’t stand a chance, or don’t actually help. A speedy trial still gets them discovery, and may speed it up. Delaying the trial hurts Trump. Those other trials are much worse for him and if he’s going to show persecution, he needs to do it soonest. I think that Trump the politician understands that.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  103. “If only Trump knew!” Or the Roman Emperor Tiberius. Or the King of Spain.

    There was some guy in or around what is now New Mexico who was also removed.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  104. Were they small or big donations? Even small ones prove what Bragg’s politics are – but we know that without knowing specific donors.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:44 pm

    I misspoke.

    ……..Mr. Soros donated to a liberal group that endorses progressive prosecutors and supports efforts to overhaul the criminal justice system — in line with causes that he has publicly supported for years. That group used a significant portion of the money to support Mr. Bragg in his 2021 campaign.
    ……..
    Mr. Bragg announced his candidacy for the position in June 2019. Nearly two years later, on May 8, 2021, the political arm of Color of Change, a progressive criminal justice group, endorsed him. It pledged to spend $1 million on direct mailers, on-the-ground campaigning and voter turnout efforts on his behalf. (It did not donate to Mr. Bragg’s campaign directly.) A few days later, on May 14, Mr. Soros contributed $1 million to the group, which intended to help Mr. Bragg with the money.

    Color of Change did not meet its pledge. It eventually spent nearly $500,000 in support of Mr. Bragg. That amounted to about 11 percent of the group’s $4.6 million in total spending during the 2021-22 election cycle, according to the campaign finance website Open Secrets.
    ………

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  105. Stupid lawyer games, making motions that don’t stand a chance, or don’t actually help.

    I’m sure they are following instructions from their client. He is known to make frivolous motions to delay his day in court.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  106. 82. whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:28 pm

    What is the specific federal law Trump violated??

    Or state law that prohibits violating any other law (including a federal law.)

    Bragg is leaving himself open to settling on something later.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  107. So who’s making the decisions for Color of Change? I heard also that he got only half the amount because of some issues.

    Sammy FInkelman (1d215a)

  108. Is the DA’s argument that Trump “purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication” is illegal in and of itself? Or, it’s not bad by itself, but doing it and then lying about it on business records to help his campaign is illegal? (I think it’s the latter).

    JRH (817a04)

  109. 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree

    A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

    Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

    https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-175-10.html

    And what is 2nd degree falsification you may ask?

    175.05 Falsifying business records in the second degree

    A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, he:

    1. Makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an enterprise;  or

    2. Alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true entry in the business records of an enterprise;  or

    3. Omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise in violation of a duty to do so which he knows to be imposed upon him by law or by the nature of his position;  or

    4. Prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof in the business records of an enterprise.

    Falsifying business records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.

    Colonel Haiku (cf18d8)

  110. @70, Whembly here’s a link to a right wing protest that was mildly violent (some shoving), disorderly, interfered with legislative business and was not described as an insurrection. You can find a lot of similar protests if you google “anti-lockdown protests”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/may/15/armed-protesters-clash-at-michigans-state-capitol-over-coronavirus-lockdown-video

    One of the things that makes Jan 6 different is that many of the violent republicans who assaulted the police to seize the capital did so explicitly to prevent the lawful transfer of power.

    Time123 (6f6b54)

  111. I’ve read more of the charging documents. This seems barely supportable from a legal standpoint, and very weak sauce. Based on what I know now (I’m open to changing my mind) I don’t think the changes should have been brought. But I don’t think doing so is an extreme miscarriage of justice so much as a poor use of prosecutorial discreation

    Time123 (6f6b54)

  112. @102

    So, what was the “intent to commit another crime” that would elevate this to a felony?

    whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:35 pm

    The “other crime” was violating New York’s election laws. From the Statement of Facts:

    2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of various entities in New York. The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme.

    My emphasis.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:47 pm

    Regarding your emphasis, that’s federal. To my understanding, all election laws surrounding a federal election is governed solely by the FEC.

    Again, there isn’t anything there that describes the statute (federal or state) that Trump allegedly broke.

    The ” tax purposes” one, seems to be the stronger of the two, but wouldn’t that be under civil doctrine?

    Anyhoo…as much as I want Trump to be dinged, this ain’t it.

    whembly (d116f3)

  113. He should demand a speedy trial……

    Under NY law (CPL § 30.30) the prosecution has up to 6 months to try someone for felonies. Bragg’s request to schedule a January 2024 trial date is a few months beyond 6 months, it is the Trump team that wants a trial a year from now.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  114. Anyhoo…as much as I want Trump to be dinged, this ain’t it.

    whembly (d116f3) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:08 pm

    We’ll see.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  115. @115 Sorry, regarding “federal election is governed solely by the FEC”, should’ve phrased that better…I mean that the FEC (or US DOJ) would need to bring a charge stemming from a general election ‘payment’ scheme. Right?

    whembly (d116f3)

  116. @113

    Whembly here’s a link to a right wing protest that was mildly violent (some shoving), disorderly, interfered with legislative business and was not described as an insurrection. You can find a lot of similar protests if you google “anti-lockdown protests”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/may/15/armed-protesters-clash-at-michigans-state-capitol-over-coronavirus-lockdown-video

    One of the things that makes Jan 6 different is that many of the violent republicans who assaulted the police to seize the capital did so explicitly to prevent the lawful transfer of power.

    Time123 (6f6b54) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:03 pm

    If we’re going to make “obstruction of congress” a hardcore line that shan’t be crossed (ala J6), then if any group, be the anti-lockdown crowd or the pro-transgender folks in TN who obstructs official proceeding of the state legislatures ought to have the books thrown at them as well.

    whembly (d116f3)

  117. Cry ‘Strike… poorly phrased!’, and let slip the LegalLions!®

    Colonel Haiku (cf18d8)

  118. Trump Gets Good News About Stormy Daniels Case While in Court

    Facing 34 felony counts in the investigation of hush money payments to onetime adult-film star Stormy Daniels, former President Donald Trump’s camp likely welcomed some positive news after spending Tuesday afternoon in a Manhattan courtroom.

    He didn’t have to wait long. At the same time Trump and his legal team prepared their defense, Trump’s attorneys on the other side of the country in California learned Daniels—the star witness in Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s case—might owe him some money. A lot of it.

    Shortly after the allegations of hush money became public, Daniels filed a defamation suit against then-President Donald Trump after he posted a tweet questioning Daniels’ story of being threatened to keep quiet about an alleged affair between them.

    Daniels—then working with disgraced attorney Michael Avenatti—claimed an unknown man had threatened her in 2011 in a Las Vegas, Nevada, parking lot to keep quiet about the alleged intimate relationship she’d had with the former president. A hush money payment followed, by former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen, who testified that he paid it on the ex-president’s behalf. fter Avenatti released an artist’s sketch depicting the man who Daniels said threatened her, Twitter user posted a side-by-side comparison of Daniels’ ex-husband and the alleged attacker. Trump responded: “A sketch years later about a nonexistent man. A total con job, playing the Fake News Media for Fools (but they know it)!”

    Daniels then filed a lawsuit against Trump in California. The judge ultimately found Trump was merely expressing his opinion when he posted the tweet, and ordered Daniels to reimburse him $300,000 in legal fees.

    Daniels announced her intention to fight back, tweeting: “I will go to jail before I pay a penny.”

    On Tuesday, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled Daniels would be required to compensate Trump roughly $122,000 in additional attorney fees, piling onto the hundreds of thousands she’d already owed him from previous proceedings.

    The ruling was celebrated on social media by Harmeet Dhillon, Trump’s attorney in the case and former Republican National Committee chairwoman candidate, who had defended him in a number of cases brought by Daniels. “Congratulations to President Trump on this final attorney fee victory in his favor this morning,” wrote Dhillon. “Collectively, our firm obtained over $600,000 in attorney fee awards in his favor in the meritless litigation initiated by Stormy Daniels.”

    Newsweek has contacted the offices of Daniels’ attorney, Corey Brewster, for comment. Trump still faces an array of litigation in the coming months. In addition to the hush money case in Manhattan, the Department of Justice is investigating the classified documents from his time as president that were found in his Mar-a-Lago home in Florida, as well as a series of probes into efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

    Trump also faces a series of investigations into his various corporate enterprises, led by Bragg and New York State Attorney General Letitia James. – https://www.newsweek.com/

    DCSCA (6415df)

  119. @114

    I’ve read more of the charging documents. This seems barely supportable from a legal standpoint, and very weak sauce. Based on what I know now (I’m open to changing my mind) I don’t think the changes should have been brought. But I don’t think doing so is an extreme miscarriage of justice so much as a poor use of prosecutorial discreation

    Time123 (6f6b54) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:05 pm

    Here’s the thing: this event shouldn’t be looked at in a vacuum.

    Bragg is known for being soft on crime, letting violent criminals loose, only for them to commit even more crimes.

    Prosecutors, as a general rule, don’t bring charges on cases that are this shaky. That’s because there’s a finite number of hours and resource for the DA to spend on prosecuting crimes in their domain.

    So, here, you have a very lenient DA looking extremely partisan in going after Trump. Politically, he has a problem and is likely doing lasting damage to not only his office, but damaging the credibility of his office for his successors as well. That shouldn’t be ignored.

    whembly (d116f3)

  120. He should demand a speedy trial. ……

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:06 pm

    Not with this schedule:

    Under New York law, district attorneys must turn over much of their evidence to defense lawyers within 35 days of a defendant’s arraignment. The rules require prosecutors to provide physical evidence like police reports and photographs, electronic recordings and grand jury testimony, including the names of witnesses.

    Prosecutors may request an extension of up to 30 days under exceptional circumstances. They may also request a protective order to shield witness names and information until trial, though judges are not required to grant it.

    The defense is also required to disclose certain evidence in its possession 30 days after prosecutors first open their files.

    Lawyers from both sides may file motions asking the judge to prevent certain evidence from being used at trial, and hearings on those motions may delay a trial even further.

    The judge presiding over Tuesday’s arraignment, Juan M. Merchan, set a schedule for Mr. Trump’s lawyers to file motions by Aug. 8 and prosecutors by Sept. 19, with judge’s orders to come on Dec. 4.

    Defense lawyers can also file motions asking the judge to dismiss a case. One of Mr. Trump’s lawyers, Joseph Tacopina, previously said that he anticipated filing such a motion. But after the arraignment, he told reporters outside the courthouse that it was too soon to talk about specific details.
    ………
    In high-profile cases, defense lawyers often request a change of venue, arguing that extreme media scrutiny makes it difficult to find unprejudiced jurors in the original location, but judges rarely agree.

    As noted above, under NY law (CPL § 30.30) the prosecution has up to 6 months to try someone for felonies.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  121. @122 @114 Time, what I’m saying is that there’s an argument to be made of prosecutorial abuse by Bragg.

    But, in the end, it doesn’t matter. Trump will have his day in court, and there are going to be political ramifications that I don’t think everyone can anticipate.

    whembly (d116f3)

  122. @123

    As noted above, under NY law (CPL § 30.30) the prosecution has up to 6 months to try someone for felonies.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:21 pm

    You mean, the court case, as in “arguing in court” must begin by no later than 6 months. (ie, the court would be conduction it’s hearings by October ’23??)

    whembly (d116f3)

  123. @98. No mug shot; a win for social media; a loss for American cottage industry entrepreneurs- and Chinese T-shirt manufacturers.

    DCSCA (6415df)

  124. Whembly, your comment at 122 is persuasive.

    Time123 (a7e7d5)

  125. Whembly, I don’t think “obstruction of Congress” was the bright line in question for most ppl. Making that the rule minimizes what the violent trump supporters were trying to accomplish.

    Time123 (a7e7d5)

  126. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg said at a news conference after the court hearing that the alleged scheme was intended to cover up violations of New York election law, which makes it a crime to conspire to illegally promote a candidate.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  127. @128

    Whembly, I don’t think “obstruction of Congress” was the bright line in question for most ppl. Making that the rule minimizes what the violent trump supporters were trying to accomplish.

    Time123 (a7e7d5) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:30 pm

    But, just about all (??) of the convictions was that “obstruction of Congress”.

    I think where you and I differ, is that I believe that there was an actual conspiracy by the folks there to stop Congress from doing their job. Whereas I, believe it was a protest that got out of control and turned into an uncontrolled riot (redundant, I know). A riot that was violent, and that those who destroyed property and assaulted officers SHOULD (and are!) be held to account.

    If protestors trespass during an official proceeding of their legislatures, then they should be held to account for doing so for “obstructing official proceeding” ala J6.

    That’s not minimizing J6 at all, in fact, I would argue it bolsters the J6 prosecution legitimately by applying the same standards elsewhere.

    whembly (d116f3)

  128. @129

    Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg said at a news conference after the court hearing that the alleged scheme was intended to cover up violations of New York election law, which makes it a crime to conspire to illegally promote a candidate.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/4/2023 @ 3:35 pm

    And there it is.

    There’s a lot of trying to shove a circular rod into a square hole here, but Bragg’s office will need to prove it.

    Frankly, I don’t think they care if they can prove it. The fact that he decided to indict Trump on this screams to me that its all about the narrative building exercise, rather than a good-faith effort to seek justice.

    whembly (d116f3)

  129. @130 @Time123 sorry it should be “I think where you and I differ, is that I don’t believe that there was an actual conspiracy…”

    whembly (d116f3)

  130. I said a few days ago that, for Bragg’s sake, he should have the evidence for an open-and-shut felony conviction, beyond all reasonable doubt. So far, I haven’t seen it because the AG hasn’t specified the exact crime that Trump intended to conceal. Disappointing.

    I can understand the AG at this stage of the process not putting all the cards on the table but, so far, we’re not getting much at all here. I’d like to hear what our prosecuting attorney and chief blogger here has to say.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  131. “ The most recent Reuters poll, taken from 3/31 – 4/3, has Trump up by 29 percentage points. In the previous Reuters poll, 3/14 – 3/20, Trump was only up by 14. In the most recent Trafalgar Group poll, 3/31 – 4/2, Trump is up by 33 points. In the previous Trafalgar Group poll, he was up by 14.

    It seems obvious that the indictment has improved his standing. Nice work, Trump haters.”

    —- Ann Althouse

    Colonel Haiku (1f4381)

  132. The “indictment bounce.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  133. Trumpster republicans in tennessee to oust democrat members in state leg. who marched in gun control protest march of school shooting in retaliation for trump indictment. (DU)

    asset (d513e0) — 4/4/2023 @ 2:13 pm

    They engaged in an insurrection.

    What’s good for the goose…

    NJRob (6f0742)

  134. Ride the eel, donkeyites!

    Colonel Haiku (1f4381)

  135. Michael Cohen is Lawyer A.

    Karen McDougal is Woman 1.

    Stephanie Clifton aka Stormy Daniels is Woman 2.

    I think Lawyer B is Michael Avenatti. I am not sure but I think Lawyer B may be Robert Costello. Lawyer D may be Rudy Giuliani.

    The Statement of Facts states facts supporting the charges. It does not state the charges.

    The Indictment states the charges and the applicable law that authorizes the charges, not all the facts.

    After seeing only one side of the case, IMO the charges are legitimate. If proven, there is sufficient evidence supporting them, although defendant gets to offer evidence, too. My concern is that the American public has been conditioned to believe politicians’ adultery is their private business.

    DRJ (0abb72)

  136. Conditioned by Democrats, of course. Now Republicans are signing on to that part of the Democratic platform.

    DRJ (0abb72)

  137. Here’s an explanation from Philip Bump.

    In the abstract, a company like AMI paying McDougal or the doorman to bury their stories is legal. If they want to sell the rights to a private company, they may do so. But these payments, Bragg’s office alleges, violated the law and, therefore, warranted felony falsification charges.

    Bragg explained the two predicates for that argument in a news conference on Tuesday afternoon.

    “The first is New York state election law, which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means,” he said. “I further indicated a number of unlawful means, including additional false statements, including statements that were planned to be made to tax authorities. I also noted the federal election-law cap on contribution limits.”

    The state charge, as The Washington Post wrote in January, appears to focus on a statute that makes it illegal to “conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means.”

    The federal crime is less vague. If the payments were intended to keep negative stories from coming out before the 2016 election, then the payments were political spending. And if they were political spending from a candidate or an agent of the candidate’s campaign, they are subject to contribution limits and reporting requirements. These payments, obviously, weren’t reported. The legal question, then, centers on whether the payments were aimed at influencing the election.

    The statement of facts gets at that. It notes that while Trump was never charged with either a state or federal crime, Cohen pleaded guilty to charges related to both the McDougal and Daniels payments. It also notes that AMI admitted to federal prosecutors that it participated in an effort to influence the election by making its payments.

    That said, this is relatively novel terrain. Perhaps with that in mind, the documents make an effort to demonstrate why state or federal charges could have been filed.

    In short, because Cohen committed these crimes and was convicted for them, Trump being a co-conspirator with Cohen crosses the felony threshold?

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  138. #16
    Rip, I am aware charges were dropped for Moussa. Why were there charges that needed dropping? Moussa was shot twice before taking possession of the weapon and shooting the person who had just shot him in the abdomen and ear, but was initially charged with unlawful possession of a firearm. The NYPD must have some pretty strict instructions from the DA when it comes to making arrests in cases involving guns. I live in a deep blue piece of CA and am confident I could do the same thing here and go uncharged… even though the City Attorney here would like to be able to attach a GVRO onto a traffic ticket

    steveg (d930cf)

  139. Paul,

    I think that means that Cohen committed a crime
    AMI also committed a crime. Both were intended to protect Trumps campaign.

    Trumps crime was falsifying business records to cover up Cohens and AMI’s crimes. Trumps crime is elevated to a felony because it was a crime covering up a separate crime.

    DRJ (427e62)

  140. CSPAN alerted viewers noting the Official Trump website is selling an OFFICIAL MUGSHOT T-SHIRT. $36.00

    https://secure.winred.com/save-america-joint-fundraising-committee/storefront/mugshot-white-cotton-t-shirt/details

    DCSCA (645919)

  141. I’m more interested in whatever Bragg has that doesn’t depend on Cohen. Cohen orchestrated payments and the accounting for the payments and can say he was only doing what he and Trump colluded on, but he’ll need a tape, text, email to be convincing outside Manhattan

    steveg (d930cf)

  142. Jack Smith thanks Trump for his just-completed speech at Mar-A-Lago.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  143. And that crime had its inception in the Trump Tower in August, 2015 when Trump and Pecker colluded to catch and kill negative stories.

    When did Natalia Veselnitskaya meet with the Trumpevitch (Don Jr.), also in the Trump Tower?

    nk (bb1548)

  144. My 146 was to DRJ’s 142.

    nk (bb1548)

  145. Yes, nk.

    Cohen was aware of the AMI deal with McDougal, but Pecker negotiated it. So there is an underlying crime that doesn’t directly involve Cohen.

    DRJ (427e62)

  146. ………..
    In his press conference following Trump’s arraignment, Bragg explained that New York state law does not require that his office identify the specific underlying offenses in the indictment. That said, he described three separate provisions of law that his office believes Trump had the requisite intent to violate, or which he had the intent to aid or conceal the violation. And while Bragg did not connect the dots in his remarks, each appears to relate to certain allegations laid out in the indictment and associated statement of facts.

    The first provision identified by Bragg is a New York state election law provision that makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means. Though neither the indictment nor Bragg identify it specifically, this is almost certainly New York Election Law § 17-152, which concisely states:

    Any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

    What the underlying “unlawful means” might be here isn’t entirely clear. The statement of facts, however, is careful to note that both Cohen and AMI have testified that their involvement in what they have conceded to be unlawful payoffs was motivated by a desire to avoid harming Trump’s chances of winning the 2016 general presidential election—and done with Trump’s full knowledge and support. The statement of facts alleges, for example, that Trump told Cohen that they could avoid paying Daniels altogether if they waited until after the election, because at that point “it would not matter if the story became public.”

    The second legal provision that Bragg pointed to is the limit that federal election law places on individual campaign contributions. While Bragg did not say as much in his remarks, this is almost certainly in relation to the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels by Cohen.

    The third provision involves tax law, specifically obligations to properly report taxable income. Once again, this most likely relates to Cohen…….

    Of course, these might not be the underlying offenses or the offense in question may relate to other conduct: Bragg was quite clear in his press conference that this office was not obligated to provide a full picture of its case right now, and would not be doing so at this stage. There may also be legal issues with some of these claims, including questions arising from the relationship between relevant federal and state criminal offenses. This may be why the district attorney set out 34 different counts rooted in different sets of facts and legal provisions, so that deficiencies in one or two will not prove fatal to the case as a whole.
    ………..

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  147. What’s up with your fellow Gdik, nk? BJ has a slight lead with 88% counted.

    urbanleftbehind (bc1716)

  148. From a juridical point of view, I feel a lot better about the case now. There is accomplice liability on the part of Trump, and the crime does not depend on Cohen’s conviction.

    nk (bb1548)

  149. It will be close, ulb. But the turnout was miserable in my ward. I don’t know about the rest of North and Northwest.

    nk (bb1548)

  150. BJ number one with a bullet, baby!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  151. And a strange thing, but I had hot dogs (Oscar Mayer) cut into bite-size pieces and macaroni and cheese for lunch. Something I have never put together for myself before. Followed by chocolate chips. No, not chocolate chip cookies. Just the chocolate chips out of the bag.

    Shaking my head.

    nk (bb1548)

  152. Watch these folks who work within the NYC system, how they show how much they value that system by twisting the rules, lying about their motivation, etc.

    It’s their corrupt world. Best to stand clear.

    Colonel Haiku (c62d87)

  153. The “other crime” was violating New York’s election laws. From the Statement of Facts:

    2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects.

    None of the charges relate to anything that the National Enquirer or Mr Packer did, nor any purchase of negative information by same.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  154. The judge presiding over Tuesday’s arraignment, Juan M. Merchan, set a schedule for Mr. Trump’s lawyers to file motions by Aug. 8 and prosecutors by Sept. 19, with judge’s orders to come on Dec. 4.

    I presume this is because Trump’s team did NOT demand a speedy trial. Had they done so, the judge would have published a tighter schedule. It is certainly not proof that they could NOT have demanded one.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  155. There are a number of reasons to object to the charges.

    1. Statute of Limitations, although this is unlikely.

    2. The lack of the underlying crime, which only has a convicted $4 million tax felon and perjurer’s guilty plea to back it up, and that guilty plea was packaged with the tax crime, for which alone the defendant got a reduced sentence.

    3. The multiplicity of the recited crimes. Even if you agree that the record violations were to hide the payment to Stormy, there were not 34 individual decisions to engage in cover-up. Nor is it likely that the prosecution can prove Trump’s (or Cohen’s) state of mind showed intent in each instance.

    I think this last part is likely to work. It’s like charging someone for speeding separately for each block he exceeded the posted speed. OTOH, while it will reduce the felony charges down to a handful, they are still felony charges as long as #2 holds up.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  156. Conditioned by Democrats, of course. Now Republicans are signing on to that part of the Democratic platform.

    The Rule of Law works for both sides. Either well or poorly, but not well for Republicans and poorly for Democrats.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  157. Trumps crime was falsifying business records to cover up Cohens and AMI’s crimes

    Which charge involved AMI?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  158. Meanwhile Wisconsin’s Supreme Court now in Democrat hands. No one’s life, liberty or property are safe while the Court is in session.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  159. There are many Americans who just want to live our lives in peace and be as prosperous as we can. No perverted sex-ed for our pre- K through 6th grade children, no new wars, no more invasion on our border, no climate change mandate horseschit, etc.

    If it isn’t obvious by now that this is not what Democrats value, let alone foster, I’m not sure what additional unmitigated disasters you must witness to open your eyes.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  160. Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:15 pm

    The MAGAs should’ve learned the lesson from last November: Batsh-t doesn’t win elections in swing states.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  161. Donald Trump claimed, like it’s settled law, that when a president [treats classified information like it is not classified] it is de-classsified. It’s automatic, he said. He can make that claim, but it’s not settled law, and I want to know, what took him so long to come up with that defense?

    I didn’t like the way he pronounced China – he said Joe Biden took documents to a place that was (near?) Chinatown. Yes, you could argue the CCP operates there but really?

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01)

  162. 156.Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 6:48 pm

    None of the charges relate to anything that the National Enquirer or Mr Packer did, nor any purchase of negative information by same.

    Because there’s no false record he made to hide that.He only reimbursed – triple because tax consequences were taken into account – Michael Cohen’s payment to Stormy Daniels. In the end, he didn’t give the National Enquirer anything so there was nothing to make an untruthful bookkeeping entry about.

    Bragg will say his hiding of the Cohen payment also hid what the National Enquirer did, and they may have Trump himself on the (fee=deral and statute of limitations expired) crime of soliciting an illegal corporate campaign contribution from AMI.

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01)

  163. Which charge involved AMI?

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:10 pm

    As part of the (deferred prosecution) agreement, AMI admitted to making a payment of $150,000 in cooperation with members of Trump’s presidential campaign in order to prevent former Playboy model Karen McDougal’s claims of an affair with Trump from being made public during the 2016 race.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (740542)

  164. What’s the theory? That if he hadn’t reimbursed MC, in the process making false bookkeeping entries, MC would have informed prosecutors of the agreement with the National Enquirer? This is so farfetched you can’t even say it.

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01)

  165. 165… Another nail in the Windbag City’s coffin.

    Colonel Haiku (c62d87)

  166. 168… lol.

    Bet they can!

    Colonel Haiku (c62d87)

  167. 167. That’s a statement of fact, but it is not related to any of the counts in the indictment,

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01)

  168. You know, it takes some thinking to realize that the National Enquirer purchasing exclusive rights to a story in order to help Trump amounts to an illegal corporate campaign contribution.

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01)

  169. Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:05 pm

    According to NY law, Identifying the underlying crime is not required in the indictment. See post 149.

    Rip Murdock (740542)

  170. He can make that claim, but it’s not settled law…

    He’s making the claim well after the fact, Sammy. There’s no record or evidence anywhere that he declassified any of the documents he stole from the White House while he was president.

    Also, and more importantly, it’s irrelevant. The Espionage Act doesn’t say a word about classified documents, but it does refer to materials relating to the national defense, and Trump not only took those national defense materials, he willfully retained them, which is illegal under the law. His obstruction of their return only furthers his lawbreaking. Trump’s admissions tonite in his speech only strengthens Special Counsel Smith’s case.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  171. 167. That’s a statement of fact, but it is not related to any of the counts in the indictment,

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:48 pm

    AMI is mentioned throughout the Statement of Facts and has a lot to with the charges involving McDougal and the doorman.

    Rip Murdock (740542)

  172. AMI also committed a crime. Both were intended to protect Trumps campaign.

    What exactly is the AMI crime, DRJ? Cohen’s crimes were proven in a court of law, but what is the legal standing of Pecker’s crimes? I know that Bragg more or less declared it so, but what basis? Be gentle, because IANAL.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  173. You know, it takes some thinking to realize that the National Enquirer purchasing exclusive rights to a story in order to help Trump amounts to an illegal corporate campaign contribution.

    If you coordinate with the candidate. That’s why the August 2015 Trump Tower meeting with Pecker matters.

    nk (bb1548)

  174. You know, it takes some thinking to realize that the National Enquirer purchasing exclusive rights to a story in order to help Trump amounts to an illegal corporate campaign contribution.

    Sammy Finkelman (86fc01) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:53 pm

    A contribution can be anything of value, and buying stories to suppress them to protect Trump’s campaign seems pretty obvious to be something “of value.”

    Rip Murdock (740542)

  175. Liberals take wisconsin supreme court seat protecting abortion rights and stop republican gerrymandering. Every day demographics helps democrats and hurts republicans. AOC will be ready in 2024/2028. Despite republican propaganda Young latinx hate republicans as was seen in 2022 election. Happy das are here again!

    asset (dd40c2)

  176. LOL the Democrats have decades of unreported campaign contributions from one-sided media coverage.

    JF (324433)

  177. So … what was the political downside to liberal Democrats of Trump’s arraignment today?

    nk (bb1548)

  178. All that the Republicans have accomplished by hugging that bucket of vomit is to get more and more people to look away in revulsion. And their glance to fall elsewhere.

    nk (bb1548)

  179. So … what was the political downside to liberal Democrats of Trump’s arraignment today?
    nk (bb1548) — 4/4/2023 @ 8:54 pm

    probably the same political downside to Putin for prosecuting Khodorkovsky

    JF (324433)

  180. The MAGAs should’ve learned the lesson from last November: Batsh-t doesn’t win elections in swing states.

    I wasn’t aware that the other candidate was batsh1t. I think that the election hinged on abortion rights, with the idea that a 4-3 Democrat court would discover the abortion right in the state constitution.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  181. Brandon Johnson pulls out win in Chicago mayoral race

    Some people learn hard.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  182. @167

    Well, that little condescension doesn’t address the fact that it has nothing at all to do with any of the 34 charges.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  183. According to NY law, Identifying the underlying crime is not required in the indictment. See post 149.

    More condescension. This is really something you should wean yourself off of.

    It is not required in the indictment, but it IS required in the trial. And every last charge in the indictment is regarding 2017, when Trump was paying off Cohen. Since Trump never paid a dime to AMI at any time, none of these charges relate to that. The only thing they have going is Cohen’s claim that Trump was managing the fraud to hide the payments to Cohen (and thereby to Daniels).

    And then, who was defrauded?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  184. A contribution can be anything of value, and buying stories to suppress them to protect Trump’s campaign seems pretty obvious to be something “of value.”

    Third parties can help a candidate unless the expenditure is coordinated with the campaign. The earlier meeting to talk strategy does not prove coordination of AMI’s individual acts. See my 51. They may have wished for a thing, as in “I wish you’d run TV ads against my opponent” but unless they start writing the scripts, it’s just a hope.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  185. republican gerrymandering.

    I’m going to bet that you had no problem with the Democrat gerrymanders before 1990. Democrats held Congress almost continuously for 60 years, sometimes with huge majorities despite far more even balloting. That didn’t just happen.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  186. So … what was the political downside to liberal Democrats of Trump’s arraignment today?

    Overreach with dubious charges that may help Trump get over on the real charges yet to come. They even made people who despise Trump feel he had been wronged.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  187. Believe it or not, there are people who are more concerned with abuse of process than “getting Trump.” Bullsh1t is bullsh1t no matter who is spewing it or why.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  188. Maybe look at abuse of process like: If we let all politicians get away with everything, that’s its own kind of abuse. Trump has flouted the law his whole professional life. We’re supposed to just laugh it off. Maybe that’s its own abuse of the system.

    JRH (bd37ac)

  189. Democrats go full commie yet again in Wisconsin and Chicago. Act Blue launders money for them.

    Yet more of the same. Have fun.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  190. We see the same thing with someone like Evan McMullin- he became a Democrat to run for Senate in Utah, and promptly changed his view on abortion. Not unusual, of course, but jarring for someone in a group that loudly advertises itself as “principled” and criticizes anyone who disagrees as unprincipled.

    mikeybates (41a403) — 4/4/2023 @ 12:11 pm

    I don’t know if McMullin changed his views on abortion or not, as I didn’t follow his race that closely. But given that your statement about him becoming a Democrat is flatly untrue, I am not hopeful about your trustworthiness.

    McMullin has been an independent since 2016. He ran as one in 2020 (for president) and 2022 (for the Senate). It’s not hard to check.

    Demosthenes (224e96)

  191. Overreach with dubious charges that may help Trump get over on the real charges yet to come. They even made people who despise Trump feel he had been wronged.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:33 pm

    That’s possible, of course…yet early polls indicate most Americans feel the indictment is warranted, even if most also think it was done more for political than for legal reasons. Ultimately, I don’t think this will help Trump with swing voters, or the broader electorate.

    Republican primary voters are, of course, a different story. The droolie-droolies love him more than ever now. I’ve seen several “Trump crucified for our sins” images — DURING THE EASTER SEASON — that make me want to give up on America and go join the Swiss.

    Demosthenes (224e96)

  192. https://thepoliticalinsider.com/school-superintendent-candidate-has-job-offer-yanked-for-politely-calling-two-women-ladies-in-email/

    Example #1,010,100 on how leftists are mentally ill. Support them at your peril.

    In the email from Perrone to Chairperson Cynthia Kwiecinski and executive assistant to the committee, Suzanne Colby, he called them “ladies” at the top of the email. From there, things spun out of control.

    Kwiecinski responded to Perrone saying that his use of “ladies” was “hostile and derogatory,” and that “the fact that he didn’t know that as an educator was a problem.” She also added that the term “ladies” was a “microaggression.”

    On the bright side, at least they’re being honest about what “educators” are actually teaching.

    Shortly after, Perrone was informed that following a committee vote, his job offer was officially revoked for the crime of being a normal human.

    “I was shocked,” said Perrone. “I grew up in a time when ‘ladies’ and gentlemen’ was a sign of respect. I didn’t intend to insult anyone.”

    “I don’t want people to think I was not willing to negotiate in good faith. I have chosen not to just leave as ‘negotiations stalled,’ I would rather share my truth, my sadness and disappointment and try to find a way forward positively.”

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  193. He should have addressed them by their names and titles. He wasn’t talking to the high school field hockey team. He was talking to people with the power to hire him and give him more money.

    It was a micro-aggression, designed to give him a psychological edge in the salary negotiations. Impliedly hostile and derogatory, and explicitly condescending and disrespectful. And a lazy way to write to people. Even in emails.

    nk (bb1548)

  194. I understand the argument for felony enhancement, I’m just not sure how “just” this is going to be viewed. This smells like a misdemeanor infraction that should be penalized with a stiff fine to provide some sort of future deterrent. Trying this will just resuscitate the “What about Hillary” complaints and felony traps set up for all future candidates. Yes, there’s karma and arrogance here…but it’s also about sex and hiding sex. If you’re going to jail an ex-President or even an ex-Presidential candidate, there needs to be more there there, as Gertrude Stein might say. The Georgia case, the Mar-a-Lago documents obstruction, and the J6 conspiracy have the there there, though none will be a slam dunk. The solution to Trump should have been impeachment. The solution to Trump shouldn’t be 50% of Republicans wanting him to be their nominee. It’s embarrassing.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  195. @198 AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 4/5/2023 @ 5:37 am
    AJ… all of that.

    If the conduct didn’t warrant an impeachment removal from office. Then trying to convict an ex-President on misdemeanors that are trumped up to felony based on novel theories smacks of political persecution.

    We all should be able to point this out, even if it’s such a hated figure such as Trump.

    whembly (d116f3)

  196. “Meanwhile, in Chicago, just when you thought things could not get worse, they voted in the guy who’s loudly and proudly stated he’d get rid of the police. In Chicago.”

    Colonel Haiku (c62d87)

  197. Looks like Bragg isn’t getting support from the usual places for the indictment:

    https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/4/4/23648390/trump-indictment-supreme-court-stormy-daniels-manhattan-alvin-bragg

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/donald-trump-charged-felony-bragg-mistake.html

    I do think Democrats really hope the GOP nominates Trump again because he is such a loser for the Republicans. They keep acting like they want him to be the nominee.

    Appalled (4e1795)

  198. I do think Democrats really hope the GOP nominates Trump again because he is such a loser for the Republicans. They keep acting like they want him to be the nominee.

    Absolutely agree. On both counts. He is their biggest vote-getter and fund-raiser, the “clear and present danger” that only they can save America from.

    Hey, they got a right to keep their phony-baloney jobs, too, same as McDaniel and McCarthy!

    nk (bb1548)

  199. That was fast. Trump’s rambling dumpster fire of a speech last night was fact-checked.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  200. Nk,

    I pray you are joking.

    NJRob (c263d1)

  201. “Meanwhile, in Chicago, just when you thought things could not get worse, they voted in the guy who’s loudly and proudly stated he’d get rid of the police. In Chicago.”
    Colonel Haiku (c62d87) — 4/5/2023 @ 6:39 am

    who cares, as long as he’s anti-Trump

    JF (e68188)

  202. No, NJRob, I was perfectly serious.

    But I remember that the Vice Principal at my high school (one of Chicago’s then two magnet schools) was a former woodshop teacher. Principal Perrone is a former football coach. Maybe it is a simply a case of him reaching his Peter Principle level at the hiring process, and not the “Art Of The Deal” negotiating tactic I credited him with.

    nk (bb1548)

  203. Very sad that you consider a polite statement acknowleging the obvious to be a “micro-aggression” which is a symptom of leftist imagined offense.

    NJRob (c263d1)

  204. I wasn’t aware that the other candidate was batsh1t.

    Like I said, Kevin. He was in on the Wisconsin Fake Electors scheme. The GOP could’ve kept that seat but instead they nominated a right-wing jackass.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  205. Spot on!

    https://pasteboard.co/4GEh3g8Zul6i.png

    Colonel Haiku (c62d87)

  206. My Son’s little league practices started last night and I hung out with one of the other dads. We’re acquaintances and get along well. I asked him what he thought about the Trump thing.

    His response was (as best I can recall it) “I’m not really into politics. Seems nuts to me. What is this like the 3rd time he’s been arrested?” I asked him if he thought it was politically motivated and he said (again as best I can recall) “Yeah probably. But what do you expect. Everyone knows Trump is crooked. They all are.”

    That was all the politics we talked about. It’s a focus group of 1, but so far this drama isn’t make a big impact on the public psyche.

    Time123 (c6bcd1)

  207. Spot on!

    Yes, and yes

    if you like tacopina coladas
    and getting caught and arraigned

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  208. i think mr. former president donald trump, whom the soros-backed leftist drag queen conspiracy is constantly trying to humiliate and traumatize by enticing him to grab the wrong thing, could be elected dogcatcher of mar-a-lago in a landslide

    and he doesn’t even like dogs

    nk (bb1548)

  209. This is true…

    But, by now, we know this guy, and we know how we all got here. This is what Donald J. Trump has done to our norms and our collective conscience:

    He is the only man in American presidential history who could pay off two porn stars, and orchestrate a criminal conspiracy to cover it up in the final crucial days of a presidential election, and have people think that it was “trivial”.

    After seven years of pizda grabbing, mendacity, incitements, obstruction, shooting people in the middle of 5th Avenue, and an endless torrent of lies, the smart kids still look at the criminal charges and wonder if that’s all there is to it?

    No, there’s more to it, which is why Trump spent all that time last night whining about Jack Smith and Fulton County.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  210. @196, Seems like the recipients of that email are overly sensitive. But the sender was rude. It’s impolite and condescending to refer to women as ‘ladies‘ in a professional setting. If you’re looking for a job it’s a bad idea to be mildly insulting. At least that’s what I was taught when I got my first corporate job about 20 years ago.

    For those who don’t know you also shouldn’t refer to women in a professional setting as ‘lass’ ‘girlie’ ‘honey’ or reference their bodies / appearance. Doing so is impolite and disrespectful to the person you’re speaking with. Obviously this is a general rule and there maybe specific exceptions.

    Calling a older co-worker ‘gramps’ or a black co-worker ‘boy’ are also disrespectful should be avoided.

    Time123 (c6bcd1)

  211. @167

    Well, that little condescension doesn’t address the fact that it has nothing at all to do with any of the 34 charges.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:15 pm

    According to NY law, Identifying the underlying crime is not required in the indictment. See post 149.

    More condescension. This is really something you should wean yourself off of.

    It is not required in the indictment, but it IS required in the trial. And every last charge in the indictment is regarding 2017, when Trump was paying off Cohen. Since Trump never paid a dime to AMI at any time, none of these charges relate to that. The only thing they have going is Cohen’s claim that Trump was managing the fraud to hide the payments to Cohen (and thereby to Daniels).

    And then, who was defrauded?

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 10:21 pm

    I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to sound condescending, but AMI’s involvement is discussed throughout the Statement of Facts, and Pecker was one of the final witnesses for the grand jury.

    In your post 158 you wrote:

    There are a number of reasons to object to the charges.
    ………..

    2. The lack of the underlying crime……

    You are correct the underlying crime(s) will need to be identified at trial, but your comment seems to imply they should have been identified in the indictment. This is just a beginning; we will much more from both sides over the next several months.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  212. Between teh Bulwart and the Lincoln Man-Boy Love Project, the “hey, sailor!” cruise vibe is off the charts!

    Colonel Haiku (c62d87)

  213. Meanwhile Wisconsin’s Supreme Court now in Democrat hands. No one’s life, liberty or property are safe while the Court is in session.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:15 pm

    And it was a crushing defeat for Kelly, 55.5% to 45.5%. Now we need to figure out how to pronounce “Protasiewicz.”

    Given the fact that spending topped $42M (with Protasiewicz having a $6M advantage), the corruption potential is huge. I oppose judicial elections, they are not really “non-partisan,” and it gives the appearance of verdict buying.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  214. Good read here:
    https://shugerblogcom.wordpress.com/2023/04/04/a-potential-problem-for-the-trump-indictment-is-there-any-precedent-for-an-internal-business-record/

    [UPDATE: What a mess today. An embarrassment to the rule of law. Maybe a political disaster, if it plays out in favor of Trump. And unfortunately it might. Now that Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg has clarified in a press conference that the underlying crime is a campaign violation, I’ll address the massive preemption problem briefly with links to my tweets here (with text of FECA preemption clause), here (on the state law confirming fed preemption), and here (on Teper v. Miller, no preemption if the state law is tangential — and I think it’s a very hard case to say that a state can turn a federal filing rule into a state filing crime), and later in a follow-up post. Bottom line 1: Even if I’m wrong on the preemption merits, this case is headed to SCOTUS on federal preemption, just like Trump v. Vance, based on 28 USC 2283, Section 1983, and FECA. Bottom line 2: NY state law confirms that this is likely federal jurisdiction, not state jurisdiction. If there are federalism doubts, this NY state law will allow the conservatives to say “NY state agrees that they don’t have jurisdiction on federal campaign filing matters.” The Manhattan DA will likely lose in federal court on this entire case if it is based on a federal campaign, and rightly so: We also don’t want red state prosecutors using state law to prosecute federal campaign laws].

    whembly (d116f3)

  215. yet early polls indicate most Americans feel the indictment is warranted, even if most also think it was done more for political than for legal reasons.

    IOW, most Americans feel that bringing indictments for political reasons is OK if it’s against someone they don’t like. They would tear down the law to get at the Devil, to paraphrase Thomas More. Thank God for the Constitution that limits these “feelings.”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  216. Given the fact that spending topped $42M (with Protasiewicz having a $6M advantage), the corruption potential is huge.

    Most of it came from the Schlitz beer family. For both candidates. One branch of the family supported Protasewiecz, another Kelly. “Great taste!” “Less filling!” Like that.

    Protaswiecz was a solid candidate. 26 years a prosecutor, a circuit judge, she got twice the votes Kelly got in the jungle primary.

    All Kelly had going for him was that he was solidly in with the Republican Party. Scott Walker appointed him in 2016 to fill a sudden vacancy on the Supreme Court but he was voted out in the next election.

    nk (bb1548)

  217. The droolie-droolies love him more than ever now.

    Even now you have no idea why these people support Trump.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  218. “hey sailor” vibe was off the charts here when the USS Ronald Reagan visited here and the Gay Pride group set up a “Welcome Sailors” booth at the beach. It was a very enthusiastic welcome.

    steveg (d930cf)

  219. An Opposing View:

    ………
    With the release of the indictment and accompanying statement of facts, we can now say that there’s nothing novel or weak about this case…….
    …….
    ………(T)he statement of facts alleges that deals, including one for Ms. Daniels and another for Karen McDougal that involved The National Enquirer, which had longstanding ties to Mr. Trump, were for the purpose of helping him win the presidency. If that is proved, then the deals would be “attempts to violate state and federal election laws,” as Mr. Bragg said in a statement, such as on their amount and disclosure. In this theory, the false records in the indictment covered up the campaign finance violation.

    ……..Candidates and others have often attempted to skirt the disclosure and dollar limit requirements of campaign finance regulations and falsified records to hide it. Contrary to the protestations of Mr. Trump and his allies, New York prosecutors regularly charge felony violations of the books and records statute — and win convictions — when the crimes covered up were campaign finance violations, resulting in false entries in business records to conceal criminal activity.
    ………
    New York appellate courts have held in a long series of cases that intent to defraud includes circumstances in which a defendant acts “for the purpose of frustrating the state’s power” to “faithfully carry out its own law.” To the extent Mr. Trump was covering up campaign contributions that violated New York law, that seems to be exactly what he did.

    ……(C)ourt after court across the country has recognized that state authorities can enforce state law in cases relating to federal candidates. Those courts have allowed state cases concerning federal campaign contributions under widely varied circumstances, including for fraudulently diverting funds from political action committees founded to support federal presidential campaigns, violating state law limits on corporate contributions to federal campaigns and transgressing state laws concerning donations to PACs that funded federal campaigns. Some of the examples involve criminal enforcement by state authorities, some civil, but the point is the same: They can act.

    So Mr. Bragg’s bringing a state case concerning a federal campaign is hardly novel. …….
    ……….

    Free link.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  220. It was a micro-aggression, designed to give him a psychological edge in the salary negotiations. Impliedly hostile and derogatory, and explicitly condescending and disrespectful. And a lazy way to write to people. Even in emails.

    It was seen as such, anyway. Lesson #154634 in “how email is different from a face-to-face conversation.”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  221. The solution to Trump should have been impeachment. The solution to Trump shouldn’t be 50% of Republicans wanting him to be their nominee.

    Since late 2015, Trump’s adversaries have been thinking “Once Trump is out, I hope to pick up his supporters, so I can’t antagonize them too much.” Even in the 2nd impeachment, Senators with no love for Trump voted against conviction for this tired reason.

    The problem is that it’s one of those relationships that NEVER EVER gets better. The man might live another decade; do they really want to still be in this relationship in 2032?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  222. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to sound condescending, but AMI’s involvement is discussed throughout the Statement of Facts, and Pecker was one of the final witnesses for the grand jury.

    And weirdly so, since everything before paragraph 16 is incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  223. In fact, the opening paragraphs in the Statement of Facts are prejudicial, and yet another ground for Trump’s lawyers to scuttle the whole thing, this time for misconduct.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  224. Speaking of 2032 and Supreme Courts, that’s how long the Democrats will control Illinois’s. They picked up a Republican seat in 2020 (the one held by former Bears place kicker Bob Thomas) and one more in 2022. 5-2 Democrat until 2030, and for sure 4-3 Democrat till 2032.

    Thank you, Ms. McDaniel!

    nk (bb1548)

  225. “Meanwhile, in Chicago, just when you thought things could not get worse, they voted in the guy who’s loudly and proudly stated he’d get rid of the police. In Chicago.”

    I’m looking forward to the next season of Chicago P.D. Probably add a couple social workers to the team.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  226. Chicago elections are not for the faint of heart. Just keep walking with your eyes straight ahead.

    nk (bb1548)

  227. Time,

    None of the words you cited have anything remotely to do with a proper polite word like ladies. But for you to try and equate them…

    NJRob (c263d1)

  228. Like I said, Kevin. He was in on the Wisconsin Fake Electors scheme. The GOP could’ve kept that seat but instead they nominated a right-wing jackass.

    So, I read that PBS hit piece, and saw nothing in it that said he favored the fake electors, only that he spoke with people about the plan, which could well have been “Are you out of your f***ing minds?!”

    It’s also risible that the spokesman for his partisan Democrat rival would talk about separating partisanship from “justice.” Just watch her do the bidding of the Democrat Party, replacing a GOP gerrymander with a Democrat gerrymander.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  229. In fact, the opening paragraphs in the Statement of Facts are prejudicial, and yet another ground for Trump’s lawyers to scuttle the whole thing, this time for misconduct.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:14 am

    Seriously? The statement of facts isn’t supposed to be neutral, it is the prosecution’s version of events backing up the indictment. I doubt any indictment has ever been dismissed due to “prejudicial” statement of facts.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  230. Trump’s rambling dumpster fire of a speech last night was fact-checked.

    As quickly and certainly as Biden’s horrific speeches are not.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  231. ”With a single, quick, deft move Alvin Bragg proved Trump right in everything he had been saying.
    Moreover, Bragg presented an indictment such that supporting Trump has become like supporting Dreyfus – the integrity of the justice system is at stake which is a higher issue than the fortunes of one single man, be he a Jew or a Republican political candidate.

    And thus Bragg united the country, not just the Republican party, in a high quest – communists, comedians, Never Trumpers and MAGA country are united in opposing Bragg’s Travesty as communists, singers, soft-core liberals and the right were united in France during the era of the Resistance.
    And the Democratic party went on record as favoring Bragg’s Travesty. They think they have an infallible mechanism for re-election, namely, ballot harvesting, which has ended the secret ballot for the black community. With that support it isn’t even necessary to do anything for the black community and hence de-schooling and de-policing are established there with the smiling blessing of Approved Black Richey Riches.”

    Colonel Haiku (294160)

  232. You see what is happening with Trump’s indictment. don’t you. Even people who despise Trump, like me, are finding we despise the entire f***ing Democrat apparatus more.

    No one is left trying to bring people together, instead the schism widens.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  233. I Predict:

    * You will be caught outside in the rain and you’re gonna get wet.

    * The unspecified crime will turn out to be Trump tearing off the mattress tag after coupling with teh Stormy.

    Colonel Haiku (294160)

  234. Yes, and yes…

    That “funny” first video was the result of someone throwing a skateboard in front of the rider. More assault on political opponents that gets giggles out of the Left.

    It’s shameful to not have read down the thread to discover that this was 1) an assault, and 2) that the video guy was probably in on it.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  235. You see what is happening with Trump’s indictment. don’t you. Even people who despise Trump, like me, are finding we despise the entire f***ing Democrat apparatus more.

    No one is left trying to bring people together, instead the schism widens.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:29 am

    The reaction would have not been any different if Trump was first indicted in Georgia or DC.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  236. He is the only man in American presidential history who could pay off two porn stars, and orchestrate a criminal conspiracy to cover it up in the final crucial days of a presidential election, and have people think that it was “trivial”.

    Patently untrue and offensive spin.

    He wasn’t “covering it up”, he was paying off blackmail arriving from a woman he asserts he never met who threatened him with an October Surprise smear.

    What is really surprising about modern politics is that blackmailers become victims when we don’t like their targets.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  237. Cleveland and Clinton, to name two.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  238. @231, Calling a group of women in a professional setting ‘ladies’ is not generally considered polite and hasn’t been for a long time.

    I think rescinding a job offer over it is excessive but it wasn’t a polite or professional way to address an email to other professionals and I can see deciding not to extend an offer based on that or some similar type of error / unprofessionalism.

    Time123 (c6bcd1)

  239. The reaction would have not been any different if Trump was first indicted in Georgia or DC.

    No, because I would not view those charges as utter bullsh1t. Or are you saying that I approved of January 6th? Because that would be slander (or libel, this medium straddles the difference).

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  240. Snowflakes ride skateboards? I don’t think so. It was probably friendly fire from a he-man Proud Boy or Oathkeeper who will ride with Donald Trump into the FINAL BATTLE.

    nk (bb1548)

  241. As for hiring matters, I find “Women and minorities [etc] encouraged to apply” to be insulting and discriminatory as is suggests that others are not encouraged to apply.

    If we are going to pander to the microaggression crowd, we should hold them up to their own “principles.”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  242. The reaction would have not been any different if Trump was first indicted in Georgia or DC.

    No, because I would not view those charges as utter bullsh1t……

    I meant the national reaction, not yours. In either case Trump and TrumpWorld would view a Fulton County or January 6th/classified materials indictment as persecution.

    Given that neither of us know our true identities, suing for slander or libel would be very difficult.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  243. Snowflakes ride skateboards? I don’t think so. It was probably friendly fire from a he-man Proud Boy or Oathkeeper who will ride with Donald Trump into the FINAL BATTLE.

    It seems to be a thing with skateboarders. Also read down the thread from that video for other reactions from those present, along with the video that shows the rider getting back up and charging into the crowd, pissed off at someone.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  244. He wasn’t “covering it up”, he was paying off blackmail arriving from a woman he asserts he never met who threatened him with an October Surprise smear.

    Then why make the (alleged) false business entries?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  245. You got it right the first time, Kevin. The micro-aggression thing. “It was seen as such, anyway.” And those two “ladies” had his ahem career in their hands. No room for a lazy solecism. By either definition of the word.

    nk (bb1548)

  246. Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 10:52 am

    I was kidding! I was kidding!

    nk (bb1548)

  247. Given that neither of us know our true identities, suing for slander or libel would be very difficult.

    And silly.

    The point I was making is that people like me, who despise Trump, find these allegations political BS and cause us to see Trump — in this instance — as being wronged. I also see a further degradation of American politics as the law is used to drag political opponents through “due process.”

    How we forget the following:

    “William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”

    Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”

    William Roper: “Yes, I’d cut down every law in England to do that!”

    Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake!”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  248. One of my favorite quotes. But my point is the same-among true Trump believers (and Trump himself), you will hear the same outrage if he is indicted in Fulton County or Washington DC. They don’t share your nuance.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  249. Finally, someone who agrees with the left on defunding the police.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  250. There’s no good way to deal with blackmail. Whatever you try to do about it, you do at your peril. “Publish and be damned!” is the best response.

    nk (bb1548)

  251. Speaking of 2032 and Supreme Courts, that’s how long the Democrats will control Illinois’s

    Well, in a state where everyone who is registered to vote in Chicago (or was while they were alive) casts them every time, this isn’t too surprising.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  252. Trump is getting the benefit of the law in this case. If this is pure politics it stops at court room. He gets to present a defense. He gets a jury. He has the right to appeal improper decisions by the trial judge.

    Time123 (c6bcd1)

  253. The indictment, annotated.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  254. Then why make the (alleged) false business entries?

    Right. Instead, he should have loudly proclaimed “Here I am, paying blackmail!”

    If people lie about sex, they REALLY lie about blackmail about sex.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  255. Kevin M (#242)

    I really don’t think what the two women were doing was blackmail. This is how Stormy’s story was handled, per Bragg’s statement of facts:

    On or about October 10, 2016, the AMI Editor-in-Chief connected Lawyer A with Woman 2’s lawyer (“Lawyer B”). Lawyer A then negotiated a deal with Lawyer B to secure
    Woman 2’s silence and prevent disclosure of the damaging information in the final weeks before the presidential election. Under the deal that Lawyer B negotiated, Woman 2 would be paid $130,000 for the rights to her account.
    19. The Defendant directed Lawyer A to delay making a payment to Woman 2 as long as possible. He instructed Lawyer A that if they could delay the payment until after the
    election, they could avoid paying altogether, because at that point it would not matter if the story became public. As reflected in emails and text messages between and among Lawyer A, Lawyer B, and the AMI Editor-in-Chief, Lawyer A attempted to delay making payment as long as possible.
    20. Ultimately, with pressure mounting and the election approaching, the Defendant agreed to the payoff and directed Lawyer A to proceed. Lawyer A discussed the deal with the
    Defendant and the TO CFO. The Defendant did not want to make the $130,000 payment himself, and asked Lawyer A and the TO CFO to find a way to make the payment. After
    discussing various payment options with the TO CFO, Lawyer A agreed he would make the payment. Before making the payment, Lawyer A confirmed with the Defendant that Defendant would pay him back.

    Stormy was monetizing her special time with Trump. Not very nice — but isn’t paying for embarassing stories about famous people what the National Enquirer does?

    Appalled (03f53c)

  256. Hit submit too soon.

    Out system takes into account that LEO might be overly zealous / biased and we have checks in place because of that.

    Time123 (c6bcd1)

  257. Trump is getting the benefit of the law in this case.

    He got more than most white (let alone blue) collar defendants . No mug shot, no perp walk, no bail. Probably didn’t have to surrender his passport either.

    Note that the fake mug shot adds two inches to his height.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  258. Then why make the (alleged) false business entries?

    Right. Instead, he should have loudly proclaimed “Here I am, paying blackmail!”

    If people lie about sex, they REALLY lie about blackmail about sex.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:09 am

    Trump could have paid out of his personal funds, and none would be the wiser.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  259. Finally, someone who agrees with the left on defunding the police.

    There are far too many federal agencies with police power. Here’s a list, by department, from Wikipedia

    Executive Branch

    Department of Agriculture

    Office of the Secretary of Agriculture
    Protective Operations Division (POD)[8]
    Office of Inspector General (USDA-OIG)
    United States Forest Service (USFS)
    U.S. Forest Service Law Enforcement & Investigations (USFS LEI)

    Department of Commerce

    Office of Inspector General (DOC-OIG)
    Office of Security (DOC OS)
    US DOC Office of Security
    US Commerce Department Police
    Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS)
    Office of Export Enforcement (OEE)
    National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
    National Institute of Standards and Technology Police
    National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
    National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS)
    Office of Law Enforcement (OLE)

    Department of Defense

    Office of Inspector General (DOD-OIG)
    Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS)
    Pentagon Force Protection Agency (PFPA)
    United States Pentagon Police (USPPD)
    Department of Defense Police (DOD Police)
    Defense Logistics Agency (DLA)
    Defense Logistics Agency Police
    National Security Agency (NSA)
    National Security Agency Police
    Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
    Defense Intelligence Agency Police
    National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA)
    National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency Police
    Department of the Army
    United States Army Criminal Investigation Division (USACID)
    United States Army Counterintelligence (ACI)
    United States Army Military Police Corps (USAMPC)
    Department of the Army Civilian Police (DACP)
    includes Department of the Army Civilian Guards (DASG)
    United States Army Corrections Command (USACC)
    Department of the Navy
    Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS)
    United States Marine Corps Criminal Investigation Division (USMC CID)
    United States Navy Master-at-Arms (military police)
    Department of the Navy Police (civilian police)
    United States Marine Corps Military Police
    United States Marine Corps Civilian Police
    Department of the Air Force
    Department of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (OSI)
    Air Force Security Forces Center (AFSFC)
    United States Air Force Security Forces (military police)
    Department of the Air Force Police (civilian police)
    includes Department of Air Force Civilian Guards (DAF Guard)

    Department of Education

    Office of Inspector General (ED-OIG)
    Protective Service Division (ED-PSD)
    Office for Civil Rights (OCR)

    Department of Energy

    Office of Inspector General (DOE-OIG)
    Office of Health, Safety and Security (DOE-HSS)
    National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA)
    Office of Secure Transportation (OST)
    Federal Protective Forces

    Department of Health and Human Services

    Office of Inspector General (HHS-OIG)
    United States Food and Drug Administration (HHSFDA)
    Office of Criminal Investigations (OCI)
    National Institutes of Health (NIH)
    National Institutes of Health Police

    Department of Homeland Security
    CBP Officers and Border Patrol Agents at a ceremony in 2007

    Office of Inspector General (DHS-OIG)
    Federal Protective Service (FPS)
    Federal Law Enforcement Training Centers (FLETC)
    Office of the Chief Security Officer (OCSO)
    United States Coast Guard (USCG)
    Coast Guard Investigative Service (CGIS)
    United States Coast Guard Police (CGPD)
    United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP)
    United States Border Patrol (USBP)
    CBP Air and Marine Operations (AMO)
    CBP Office of Field Operations (OFO)
    Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
    Mount Weather Emergency Operations Center
    Mount Weather Emergency Operations Center Police
    Office of Chief Security Officer (OCSO)
    United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)
    Homeland Security Investigations (HSI)
    Enforcement Removal Operations (ERO)
    Office of Intelligence
    Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR)
    United States Secret Service (USSS)
    United States Secret Service Uniformed Division (USSS UD)
    Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
    Office of Law Enforcement (OLE)/Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS)
    Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO)
    Office of Inspection (OI)
    United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)
    Fraud Detection and National Security Directorate (FDNS)

    Department of Housing and Urban Development

    Office of Inspector General (HUD-OIG)
    Protective Service Division (HUD-PSD)

    Department of the Interior

    Office of Inspector General (DOI-OIG)
    Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA)
    Office of Justice Services
    Bureau of Indian Affairs Police
    Bureau of Land Management (BLM)
    Office of Law Enforcement
    United States Bureau of Reclamation (BOR)
    Bureau of Reclamation Security Response Force (SRF) formerly known as (Hoover Dam Police), that covers Hoover Dam, Grand Coulee Dam and Glen Canyon Dam
    National Park Service (NPS)
    U.S. Park Ranger
    United States Park Police
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    Legislative Branch

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    Other federal law enforcement agencies

    Independent Agencies and federally-administered institutions;

    Central Intelligence Agency
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    2016 Ford Police Interceptor Utility belonging to the US Postal Police, NYC

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    Kevin M (1ea396)

  260. Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:17 am

    Which ones would you defund?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  261. Stormy was monetizing her special time with Trump. Not very nice — but isn’t paying for embarassing stories about famous people what the National Enquirer does?

    It had the effect of extortion, as the message was clear: “Pay me money or I will raise a stink just before the election!” She did this 2 weeks before a very close election. If she simply wanted to monetize this, she could have done it years (or at least months) earlier. But she waited until the “or else!” had teeth.

    Suppose she did this in 2013, with the threat being “Or I’ll tell Melania!” (not that Melania would have cared). That would be classic blackmail. It doesn’t have to be a badger game to be criminal.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  262. Which ones would you defund?

    It’s a target-rich environment. I’ll ask Rick Perry for a list.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  263. Trump could have paid out of his personal funds, and none would be the wiser.

    He had reasons not to do that, and Stormy’s behavior since indicates these reasons might be valid. He probably has more experience in this than you or I do.

    I note that Stormy just lost an appeal in the 9th Circuit involving her failed defamation case and Trump’s legal fees. She now owes Trump over $400,000 — something that will be used to impeach her testimony in NYC.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  264. Our system takes into account that LEO might be overly zealous / biased and we have checks in place because of that.

    The IRS is about to get reamed by the Supremes over their habits of serving secret subpoenas on third parties in great excess of their legal authority. Example: serving a subpoena on a taxpayer’s lawyers to see all monetary transactions that might have occurred and enjoining the attorneys from notifying their client.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  265. Probably didn’t have to surrender his passport either.

    I’d encourage him to use it.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  266. Probably didn’t have to surrender his passport either.

    I’d encourage him to use it.

    Kevin M (1ea396) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:36 am

    LOL! I would love to see him on America’s Most Wanted.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  267. So, I read that PBS hit piece, and saw nothing in it that said he favored the fake electors, only that he spoke with people about the plan, which could well have been “Are you out of your f***ing minds?!”

    As excuses go, Kevin, that one of your lamest. PBS wasn’t the only place that reported this, and it’s silly to assume that he just there to present the “anti” position. That’s not how this tribe rolls.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  268. Democrat apparatus, which is lawyer heavy, see Trump as a win-win. They think if they destroy Trump, legally and financially, preferably both, they win, but if they do miss, they are hedged because if he runs again, he will be get beaten badly and drag down the whole GOP ticket in every swing state.

    steveg (d930cf)

  269. @265. America’s Royalist Police State.

    … and Putin smiled… as Xi ballooned w/a grin.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  270. Paul
    I read the article you cited about Kelly and went to the meat of their allegation(s) which was this deposition.
    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-J6-TRANSCRIPT-CTRL0000050979/pdf/GPO-J6-TRANSCRIPT-CTRL0000050979.pdf
    A quick search of those 101 pages gave me 5 hits on “Kelly” 3 of those were the Kelly in question (the other was a woman who did secretarial work)
    I think this bit from page 39, 40, 41 puts Kelly’s role into context

    Okay. So — and I know we’ve touched on this a little bit before, but, you
    19 know, understanding that there had been this — this recount that confirmed that Joe
    20 Biden had won Wisconsin, the — won the popular vote in Wisconsin, did you have, you
    21 know, any concerns with participating in a — in a meeting with the Republican Party
    22 electors to cast, you know, purported electoral votes for President Trump and Vice
    23 President Pence on December 14th?
    24 A Well, that’s why I met with legal counsel, to kind of walk through, you know,
    25 what are we doing, do we have the authority to do it, what are we going to do after it,
    40
    1 sort of understanding that, basically, if we didn’t meet, that it was completely waived.
    2 And what I mean by that is, if we — if we didn’t meet and a court subsequently
    3 ruled that these challenges in Wisconsin were successful, the guidance I was given is it
    4 would be irrelevant because the elector meeting had not taken place.
    5 Q Okay. So you were — from what you can recall, you were told by legal
    6 counsel, if you all didn’t meet on December 14th and there was later a court decision that
    7 perhaps threw out a bunch of Biden votes and made President Trump the winner of the
    8 State, it wouldn’t matter because you — you guys hadn’t met on December 14th. Is that
    9 fair?
    10 A Yes, that’s fair. I was told there would be a complete waiver. And I
    11 remember — I remember asking, how could that be? Like, how could you have, you
    12 know, such a — what seems like a ministerial task, you know, meet at the capitol
    13 December 14th at noon, you know, how — how could that be?
    14 And I even asked: Let’s say we can’t — you know, we are not allowed in the
    15 capitol and we meet on the grass or the snow, you know, on the sidewalk. What
    16 happens then? And the advice — the advice I got back was: That might not count.
    17 It’s not complying with the statute. You have to meet.
    18 Now, the only way — so following up on that, the only way these vote — these
    19 alternative slate of electors would matter, though, is if a court said so. If a court ruled
    20 that the challenges were successful and that — that the challenges were successful and
    21 that Trump had won, the only way these elector votes would count would be that
    , and
    22 then that the Governor would have to send a certificate of, I believe it’s called final
    23 determination.
    24 And there’s a couple of other certificates too. There’s a certificate of
    25 ascertainment, and then there’s a statement of the canvass from the Wisconsin Elections
    41
    1 Commission that I — I don’t know for certain, but, at the time, I remember thinking that
    2 all of those or at least some of that would also have to be sent for the — for this to do
    3 anything. Otherwise, what we did on December 14th is basically meaningless.
    4 Q And who was the legal counsel who told you this —
    5 A Mr. Olson.
    6 Q — about the waiver?
    7 Mr. Olson. Okay. Was it any other people that you recall told you that?
    8 A I only — I think I only really talked with Mr. Olson and Mr. Kelly.

    steveg (d930cf)

  271. This actually sounds like good advice.

    A. Comply with the statute to the letter or there will be a complete waiver

    B. The only way the alternative slate of electors would matter is if the court says so

    C. Governor would have to send a certificate of final determination

    D. Certificate of ascertainment

    E. Statement of Canvass from Wisconsin Elections

    steveg (d930cf)

  272. I owe Ms. Kelly an apology. In skimming the pages where she is mentioned by name, I mistakenly saw her role as secretarial. She was actually the Director of Communicans who was asked to act as Secretary of any meetings.

    steveg (d930cf)

  273. Kevin M:

    This story might interest you:

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/exclusive-louisiana-backstory-puts-puzzling-twist-on-trump-daniels-tale

    I don’t think it beccomes blackmail unless Stormy approached Trump directly or Stormy knew that the National Enquirer was a pipeline to Trump’s money,.

    I know this is a side issue, but this prosecuton is so misbegotten that the only thing that interests me are the side issues.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  274. I went there, too, steveg, and we did a similar word search.

    The key verbiage in Hitt’s testimony, which I assume was under oath in front of the J6 Committee, was that he had “some pretty extensive conversations” with Kelly about “alternate” Electors. Your final line is also relevant.

    Kelly was paid $120k by Hitt for his consulting services, which obviously covered other issues as well.

    In your “good advice” comment, there’s a missing step, which is that a convened legislature officially approves a 2nd slate, and it’s a key reason why the seven “alternate” slates are fake.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  275. Tech executive, founder of Cash App is killed in stabbing in San Francisco

    Tech executive Bob Lee, who founded the mobile payment service Cash App, was killed in a stabbing in San Francisco, according to authorities and media reports.

    Police responded at about 2:35 a.m. Tuesday to a report of a stabbing on Main Street in the Rincon Hill neighborhood, near the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, the San Francisco Police Department said in a news release. Officers found a 43-year-old man suffering from stab wounds and administered aid.

    After paramedics were called to the scene, the man was taken to a hospital, where he died of his injuries, police said. The attack is under investigation and no arrests have been made….

    Lee had worked at MobileCoin since 2021 and previously served as chief technology officer at the payments platform Square, which has since been renamed Block, in addition to founding Cash App. …

    Twitter Chief Executive Elon Musk replied to the tweet, expressing his condolences and calling violent crime in the city “horrific.”

    “Very sorry to hear that,” he wrote. “Many people I know have been severely assaulted.”

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  276. Pence won’t appeal judge’s order to testify in Jan. 6 probe

    He simply had to offer resistance. It’s not like he really minds testifying.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  277. 264. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:14 am

    Trump could have paid out of his personal funds, and none would be the wiser.

    You mean could have paid Stormy Daniels out of his personal funds. But the thing is, what the truth probably is, Michael Cohen found out that neither the National Enquirer nor Donald Trump was willing to pay Stormy Daniels $130,000 (which he had bargained down from $150.000)and so, for reasons we can only guess at, Michael Cohen decided to go ahead with it himself. This is a key difference of fact.

    Although the District Attorney is alleging a general agreement, between David Pecker, Michael Cohen and Donald Trump which began, according to him, in August 2015, for the National Enquirer to buy up the exclusive rights to damaging stories about Donald Trump and not publish them (nicknamed “catch and kill” -which we read was a sometime practice of the National Enquirer with favored celebrities) and for the National Enquirer to be reimbursed.

    The National Enquirer only bought up two stories about Donald Trump after August 2015 although they had bought up plenty before

    Bragg, it looks like, is asserting that it was a conspiracy and it doesn’t matter that if Trump did not pre-approve the payment of $130,000 to Stormy Daniels because he had approved the general idea of reimbursing the National Enquirer back in August 2015!

    And presumably it doesn’t matter to Donald Trump whether he’s reimbursing the National Enquirer or reimbursing his lawyer, Michael Cohen.

    No, back in August 2015, Donald Trump had issued a blank check to anyone who paid off any blackmail on his behalf.

    That’s what you have to believe if you want the indictment to make sense. Otherwise Michael Cohen’s payoff is an independent expenditure –unless Michael Cohen got, as he claims, special approval of the $130,000 from Donald Trump and agreement that the reason Trump did it was because of the election.

    Michael Cohen has Trump check all the boxes to be guilty of accepting an unreported and over-the-limit political contribution from himself – or maybe a un-business-like loan, also illegal.

    But Alvin Bragg has structured his indictment so that Trumpwould be guilty even if the jury determines that Michael Cohen is, or reasonably likely might, be lying about Trump authorizing and directing him to pay Stormy Daniels prior to his payment, because Trump allegedly had issued the National Enquirer OR Michael Cohen a blank check back in August 2015.

    Cohen says he had had a blank check from Trump because he allegedly was his “fixer”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  278. As excuses go, Kevin, that one of your lamest. PBS wasn’t the only place that reported this, and it’s silly to assume that he just there to present the “anti” position. That’s not how this tribe rolls.

    1) steveg has the goods, and it appears that Kelly’s role was limiting the operation to a legal path.

    2) That the mischaracterization was widely reported does indeed show “how this tribe rolls.” Smear and spin, widely reported by the “responsible” press.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  279. Waiting for Paul’s retraction.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  280. 264. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 11:14 am

    Trump could have paid out of his personal funds, and none would be the wiser.

    You mean could have paid Stormy Daniels out of his personal funds because he paid Michael Cohen using his personal funds..

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/us/politics/trump-michael-cohen-checks.html

    ….And at some point on Wednesday, Oct. 18, 2017, Mr. Trump took the time to sign a $35,000 check to his lawyer, who had made hush payments to prevent alleged sexual misconduct from being exposed before the 2016 presidential election. It was one of 11 occasions that Mr. Trump or his trust cut such checks, six of which were provided this week to The New York Times….

    ….The checks to Mr. Cohen were sent on a more or less monthly basis throughout 2017, Mr. Trump’s first year in office. Mr. Cohen provided two checks to the House committee last week and his lawyer, Lanny J. Davis, provided the additional six checks to The Times this week. Mr. Cohen’s team said it was searching for three others.

    Of the eight checks now available, seven were for $35,000 and another was for $70,000 to cover two months’ worth of payments. Six were signed by Mr. Trump himself while he was president and the other two were signed by his eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., and his company’s chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg.

    Altogether, Mr. Trump or his trust paid Mr. Cohen $420,000, according to federal prosecutors. Of that, $130,000 was to reimburse payments made shortly before the 2016 election to Ms. Daniels, whose legal name is Stephanie Clifford, so she would not tell her story. Another $50,000 was for Mr. Cohen’s effort to manipulate online polls to inflate Mr. Trump’s reputation as a businessman.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  281. Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:28 pm

    Why then did Trump (allegedly) create false business records?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  282. Alvin Bragg has so structured his indictment, I think, so that Trump would be guilty even if the jury determines that Michael Cohen is, or reasonably likely might, be lying about Trump authorizing and directing him to pay Stormy Daniels prior to his payment.

    This is because he is saying that Trump allegedly had issued the National Enquirer OR Michael Cohen a blank check back in August 2015.

    That’s what you have to believe if you want the indictment to make sense.

    I think the August, 2015 meeting (which he had from David Pecker) is the new evidence that convinced Alvin Bragg to go forward.

    Otherwise Michael Cohen’s payoff is an independent expenditure –unless Michael Cohen got, as he claims, special approval of the $130,000 from Donald Trump and agreement that the reason Trump did it was because of the election.

    Michael Cohen has Trump check all the boxes to be guilty of accepting an unreported and over-the-limit political contribution from himself – or maybe a un-business-like loan, also illegal.

    But Cohen also says, in effector the prosecutor will say it for him, he had had a blank check from Trump because he allegedly was his “fixer”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  283. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 1:31 pm

    Why then did Trump (allegedly) create false business records?

    The indictment says that creating a fictitious legal obligation is a business record.

    Oh, the law requires that someone be defrauded. Bragg has a general theory of fraud on the voter (but how could action taken after the election impact votes the previous November) but his fallback theory of monetary fraud is that New York State was defrauded by being paid too much in taxes by Michael Cohen!!

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/04/us/politics/trump-bookkeeping-fraud-taxes.html

    or weeks, observers have wondered about the exact charges the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, would bring. Accusing Mr. Trump of bookkeeping fraud to conceal campaign finance violations, many believed, could raise significant legal challenges. That accusation turned out to be a major part of Mr. Bragg’s theory — but not all of it.

    “Pundits have been speculating that Trump would be charged with lying about the hush money payments to illegally affect an election, and that theory rests on controversial legal issues and could be hard to prove,” said Rebecca Roiphe, a New York Law School professor and former state prosecutor.

    “It turns out the indictment also includes a claim that Trump falsified records to commit a state tax crime,” she continued. “That’s a much simpler charge that avoids the potential pitfalls.”

    The indictment listed 34 counts of bookkeeping fraud related to Mr. Trump’s reimbursement in 2017 to Michael D. Cohen, his former lawyer and fixer….Various business records concerning those payments to Mr. Cohen, an accompanying statement of facts said, falsely characterized them as being for legal services performed in 2017. For each such record, the grand jury charged Mr. Trump with a felony bookkeeping fraud under Article 175 of the New York Penal Law. A conviction on that charge carries a sentence of up to four years.

    But bookkeeping fraud is normally a misdemeanor. For it to rise to a felony, prosecutors must show that a defendant intended to commit, aid or conceal a second crime — raising the question of what other crime Mr. Bragg would contend is involved.

    On Tuesday, Mr. Bragg suggested that prosecutors are putting forward multiple theories for the second crime, potentially giving judges and jurors alternative routes to finding that bookkeeping fraud was a felony….

    ….At a news conference, Mr. Bragg pointed to both state and federal election law. He cited a New York state election law that makes it a misdemeanor to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means, but did not explain why that law would apply to a presidential election. He also described a federal cap on campaign contributions without indicating why he had the authority to invoke a crime he could not himself charge.

    But Mr. Bragg also introduced yet another theory, accusing Mr. Trump of falsifying business records as a way to back up planned false claims to tax authorities.

    “The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme,” Mr. Bragg wrote in the statement of facts that accompanied the indictment.

    The statement of facts also described how Mr. Trump paid Mr. Cohen more than Mr. Cohen had paid Ms. Daniels to cover income taxes Mr. Cohen would incur. Mr. Bragg further emphasized that point in his news conference.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  284. The National Enquirer only bought up two stories about Donald Trump after August 2015 although they had bought up plenty before

    This is interesting because a “conspiracy” that simply acknowledges the status quo is a weak one, and it hardly supports the charge that they were doing it now only in support of the campaign.

    If anything, it marks the National Enquirer for RICO investigation, not Trump.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  285. but how could action taken after the election impact votes the previous November

    In New York City, which he lost 80-20 or worse. It may have had effect elsewhere, but that’s not Bragg’s jurisdiction. No one in New York was “defrauded” of anything except their opportunity to voter for Joe Biden, which value those “defrauded” folks would likely have sneered at.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  286. In other words, District Attorney Alvin Bragg accuses Donald Trump of defrauding New York State by causing Michael Cohen to pay too much in taxes!!

    He can’t accuse Trump of defrauding Michael Cohen because Michael Cohen knew all the facts, and consented and even help devise the scheme (collecting enough extra to make a profit after taxes) and could have filed a truthful tax return if he wanted to.

    So it’s New York State that was defrauded by collecting too much taxes.

    Believe it or not!

    In the courtroom, the prosecutor Christopher Conroy accused Mr. Trump of causing the Trump Organization to create a series of false business records, adding that he “even mischaracterized for tax purposes the true nature of the payment.”

    Because fraud can go both ways. Taking money from some entity, or giving it money it does not deserve.

    This is Alice in Wonderland territory.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  287. what the truth probably is, Michael Cohen found out that neither the National Enquirer nor Donald Trump was willing to pay Stormy Daniels $130,000 (which he had bargained down from $150.000) and so, for reasons we can only guess at, Michael Cohen decided to go ahead with it himself.

    This is a key difference of fact.

    Now the District Attorney is alleging a general agreement, between David Pecker, Michael Cohen and Donald Trump, which began, according to him, in August 2015, for the National Enquirer to buy up the exclusive rights to damaging stories about Donald Trump and not publish them (nicknamed “catch and kill” – which we read was a sometime practice of the National Enquirer with favored celebrities) and for the National Enquirer to be reimbursed.

    The National Enquirer only bought up two stories about Donald Trump after August 2015 although they had bought up plenty before which the DA is ignoring. I’m sure David Pecker told him about the whole history of the National Enquirer with Donald Trump.

    (It also helped Trump in non-monetary ways, like with that story about a supposed picture of Ted Cruz’s father with Lee Harvey Oswald, which was supposed to mean…what? he story lasted only one day because Ted Cruz pulled out of the race after losing the Indiana primary.

    Bragg, it looks like, is asserting that it doesn’t matter that if Trump did not pre-approve the payment of $130,000 to Stormy Daniels because he had approved the general idea of reimbursing the National Enquirer back in August 2015!

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  288. @189 Stop gerrymandering was a comment. If the democrats want to do it turn about is fine with me. In ny gov. coumo didn’t want to many liberal democrats like AOC so kept gerrymandering to minimum.

    asset (c20d8e)

  289. 291.

    This is interesting because a “conspiracy” that simply acknowledges the status quo is a weak one, and it hardly supports the charge that they were doing it now only in support of the campaign.

    Well, what probably happened was a renewed commitment or a decision not to change its policy with regard to Donald Trump, but Bragg is having it start in August 2015 and having the election be the only reason.

    The National Enquirer has since been sold.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  290. We’ll see what happens with Bragg’s case over the next eight months.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  291. We know the National Enquirer had a whole vault full of stories about Donald Trump it had suppressed because Michael Cohen released part of a taped conversation in which he tried to sell Trump on buying up the archive (maybe because Trump wasn’t ready to pay 150.000 for the Karen McDougal contract alone.)

    Trump wants to pay cash (which in real estate language usually means a check) but Cohen say no no, and that Allen Weisselberg had figured out a way or was figuring out the way to pay the National Enquirer.

    The tape abruptly cuts off most likely because what is said further would ruin Lanny Davis’s (MC’s lawyer) spin.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  292. We’ll see what happens with Bragg’s case over the next eight months.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:16 pm

    What comes next in Trump’s criminal case in New York

    ……….
    According to a transcript of the hearing, Catherine McCaw, an assistant district attorney in Bragg’s office, told Merchan that prosecutors believe the “vast majority” of materials will be given to Trump’s lawyers within 65 days of his arraignment, or roughly mid-June.

    Prosecutors expect information to be handed over in three stages, McCaw said: grand jury minutes and exhibits, and notes from witness statements; subpoena compliance, witness materials, police documents and other “odds and ends”; and internal District Attorney’s Office emails.

    They also raised concerns that Trump could disseminate information provided to his lawyers during discovery through social media posts. McCaw told Merchan that prosecutors are working with Trump’s attorneys on finalizing the language of a protective order.
    ………..
    “Today we are only seeking a protective order regarding discovery materials,” he said, “but we note that the defendant’s escalating public comments summing (sic) directly at participants at these proceedings and their family members, may also raise concerns about the fair and orderly administration of justice, the risks that pretrial publicity will paint the jury pool and prejudice a fair trial, and individual and public safety concerns.”
    ………..
    Merchan set an Aug. 8 deadline for Trump to file motions, and prosecutors have until Sept. 19 to respond. He intends to issue decisions on the motions by Dec. 4, which is when the two parties, including Trump, will next meet in court.
    ………..
    New York prosecutors want a trial in their case against Trump to take place in January 2024, which McCaw said would give Trump’s attorneys “ample time” to prepare.

    But (Trump attorney Todd) Blanche said that proposed timeline is “a little bit aggressive” and instead proposed a trial be set for spring 2024, which would be in the heart of the Republican presidential primary process.
    ……….

    It’s gonna be a long eight months. For whatever reason, Trump wants a trial during the Republican primary season, when he will forced to abandon the campaign trail to sit in a courtroom.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  293. “Ok , Chicago has lost it, Chicago is dead to me. Get rid of golem but elect Stalin. Chicago’s tax registers will no longer benefit from me. It’s Dunquirk, the Nazis are using guns against the helpless.

    Everyone got a nine. Everybody want your car. Everybody want your cute wife. If you accuse me of bigotry you don’t know sit.”

    Colonel Haiku (730b94)

  294. Rip, responding to:
    For whatever reason, Trump wants a trial during the Republican primary season, when he will forced to abandon the campaign trail to sit in a courtroom.

    I think Trump wants to give statements entering and emerging from the dramatic background of “Deep State” courtroom where he is braving political persecution on behalf of all American

    steveg (d930cf)

  295. I just wish the feds had nailed Al Capone on more serious charges.

    I mean, who among us hasn’t evaded taxes?

    norcal (7b2be1)

  296. I think Trump wants to give statements entering and emerging from the dramatic background of “Deep State” courtroom where he is braving political persecution on behalf of all American

    steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 2:41 pm

    He’ll have plenty of chances during the E. Jean Carroll sexual assault civil trial in about 3 weeks.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  297. Kicks just keep getting harder to find… eh, rip.

    Colonel Haiku (730b94)

  298. MacStrudelfarten will settle the E. Jean Carroll cases. Both of them. With NDAs, and then claim victory. Guaranteed. It’s what he does.

    nk (bb1548)

  299. No goin’ back, Wississippi. You and Chicago be sunk now.

    Colonel Haiku (730b94)

  300. Speaking of structuring, was anyone charged with structuring the payments to Cohen

    steveg (d930cf)

  301. It’s not structuring if there are no shenanigans at the bank. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5324

    nk (bb1548)

  302. bragg done screwed teh pooch
    it’s weak sauce as suspected
    i’m buying that shirt

    Colonel Haiku (730b94)

  303. Paul
    Thanks for your response.
    As often happens in all things Trump, we read the same things and come to different conclusions.

    I see you found Kelly was paid $120K by Hitt, I guess $120K for what Hitt called election law expertise and in context specifically Wisconsin election law expertise. It looks like Kelly gave advice that stayed within the bounds of Wisconsin election law. In the deposition, Hitt is asked if his counsel and he had discussed whether this challenge was novel in Wisconsin and he didn’t remember talking about that specifically, but certainly advice was given on the steps to be taken and statutes to follow to the letter in order to test Wisconsin election law legally.

    steveg (d930cf)

  304. Trump should hire Benjamin Crump. A person can leave DNA in a police car and Mr Crump can get the scalp of the police officer AND get a 7 figure payout

    steveg (d930cf)

  305. and internal District Attorney’s Office emails.

    What happens when they find that some of the DA’s people have burner email accounts?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  306. For whatever reason, Trump wants a trial during the Republican primary season, when he will forced to abandon the campaign trail to sit in a courtroom.

    That will BE part of the campaign. Apparently, he’s decided that martyrdom means votes and he intends to stoke the outrage all he can. I hope he has a plan on spinning “seditious conspiracy” into patriotism.

    All those lackeys who have been fighting against testifying may have incriminating stories to tell. Maybe they will all try to assert the “I don’t remember” pose, but I think that just gets them perjury and obstruction charges.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  307. For whatever reason, Trump wants a trial during the Republican primary season, when he will forced to abandon the campaign trail to sit in a courtroom.

    That will BE part of the campaign. Apparently, he’s decided that martyrdom means votes and he intends to stoke the outrage all he can. I hope he has a plan on spinning “seditious conspiracy” into patriotism.

    I’m not sure how sitting in courtroom without television coverage helps.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  308. Or an email account like Gen. Petreaus shared with his mistress where they used the gmail drafts file to communicate

    steveg (d930cf)

  309. I just wish the feds had nailed Al Capone on more serious charges.

    From The Untouchables (1987):

    Capone: I’m gonna tell you something. Somebody messes with me, I’m gonna mess with with him. Somebody steals from me, I’m gonna say you stole. Not talk to him for spitting on the sidewalk. Understand? Now, I have done nothing to harm these people but they are angered with me, so what do they do, doctor up some income tax, for which they have no case. To speak to me like me, no, to harass a peaceful man. I pray to god if I ever had a grievance I’d have a little more self respect. One more thing, you have an all out prize fight, you wait until the fight is over, one guy is left standing. And that’s how you know who won.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  310. @309. Takes two to tango; funny how nobody questions the motives of these two bimbette Trump-humpers who knew what they were messing with and all but attempted extortion by peddling kiss-and-tell tales about their tails. Classy dames, eh.

    DCSCA (da71f3)

  311. Are we sure there won’t be TV coverage? Trump is the first former President to go through this, so I do not know how the courts can allow TV to cover other proceedings but not this history making event.

    steveg (d930cf)

  312. Waiting for Paul’s retraction.

    Not happening. He was advising the Chair on Fake Electors.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  313. I’m not sure how sitting in courtroom without television coverage helps.

    We don’t know there won’t be TV coverage. The trial of an ex-president on serious charges (like in DC or GA) would warrant TV coverage because it is in the State’s interest for his supporters to see just what a guilty F he was.

    Maybe against trumped up asshat charges you don’t do that, because he could make the State look silly. But Trump can get TV coverage sleeping.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  314. He was advising the Chair on Fake Electors.

    As a lawyer. On how to stay inside the law. In the event that there was a late-breaking change in the ballot count. But enjoy your spin.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  315. I wonder what Hunter Biden recorded those checks as.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  316. What do NY taxpayers say to a rodent?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLX7kPqNwj8

    DCSCA (da71f3)

  317. Link.

    Two days later, on Dec. 14, 2020, Hitt, posing as the “chairperson” of the Wisconsin Electoral College, led a group of 10 Republicans gathered at the state Capitol in Madison in signing papers falsely claiming Trump had won the state’s 10 electoral votes and sent them to the U.S. Senate, the National Archives, Wisconsin’s secretary of state and a federal judge. They did so on the same day the state’s Democratic electors met in the Capitol to officially cast the state’s electoral votes for President Joe Biden.

    Kelly was one of the guys advising Hitt, according to Hitt’s own testimony.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  318. And so it begins…

    Kennedy Heir To Challenge Biden for White House

    Robert F Kennedy Jr has filed election paperwork to run for US president in 2024 as a Democrat. The 69-year-old is the son of assassinated Senator Robert F Kennedy and nephew of President John F Kennedy.

    The environmental lawyer’s campaign treasurer, John E Sullivan, confirmed the filing to CNN on Wednesday.
    Mr Kennedy is an outspoken anti-vaccine campaigner. Instagram removed his account in 2021 for “repeatedly sharing debunked claims”, the company said. US President Joe Biden has indicated he will run for re-election, though he has not yet formally declared his candidacy.

    In March, Mr Kennedy shared on Twitter that he was considering a run for president. At the time, he said: “If I run, my top priority will be to end the corrupt merger between state and corporate power that has ruined our economy, shattered the middle class, polluted our landscapes and waters, poisoned our children, and robbed us of our values and freedoms.” – source, https://www.bbc.com/news

    DCSCA (da71f3)

  319. There needn’t be “extensive conversations” on the subject, Kevin. For any lawyer with an adequate understanding of the 12th Amendment and Electoral Count Act, the conversation should’ve lasted three words: “Don’t do it.”

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  320. steveg (d930cf) — 4/5/2023 @ 4:52 pm

    I’m not alleging that Kelly did anything illegal, steveg, but he was advising the guy who went on to commit electoral fraud, who somehow got his list into the hands of Ron Johnson on J6.
    I draw a bright line on rejecting candidates who were/are election deniers or participated in the Fake Elector scam. IMO, Kelly came down on the wrong side of that line.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  321. Will Biden exaggerate a kinship with Bobby Kennedy and plagiarize Lloyd Bentsen?

    Bet on it:

    “I know Bobby Kennedy. Bobby Kennedy is a bust of mine. Son, you’re no Bobby Kennedy.”

    Biden displays a bust of Robert F Kennedy, the 35th president’s brother and attorney general, beside the fireplace in the Oval.

    DCSCA (da71f3)

  322. The boyfriend of Gavin Newsom’s Goodwill donation posted a picture of Judge Merchan’s daughter on Twitter and Truth Social. That should tell everybody how much sympathy the Trump Deviancy deserves. And the quality of its supporters.

    nk (efbfca)

  323. nk (efbfca) — 4/5/2023 @ 7:25 pm

    I wonder what Ginni Thomas thinks of this

    JF (3e07f2)

  324. Yeah, JF, every victim of a crime is happy when some little mutant spawn does the same thing to another person.

    nk (efbfca)

  325. For any lawyer with an adequate understanding of the 12th Amendment and Electoral Count Act, the conversation should’ve lasted three words: “Don’t do it.”

    So, suppose that voters were actually discovered that would change the outcome. It happens. What is the process at that point for changing electors? Now, I do understand this was unlikely to work — it happens rarely AND there are all those other states. It’s not even a “Hail Mary” it’s so unlikely.

    But they hired Kelly to answer those questions, and he did. Consider the possibility that it would have been worse if he didn’t. Is there other evidence that Kelly thought the election was stolen?

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  326. For any lawyer with an adequate understanding of the 12th Amendment and Electoral Count Act, the conversation should’ve lasted three words: “Don’t do it.”

    Note that my initial reaction was that he should have said “Are you out of your f***ing minds?” Then I contrasted the NPR piece with what steveg posted and it seemed to me that NPR’s piece found intent without evidence.

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  327. Note that I live in a state where judges are elected on an actual partisan basis, and people vote their straight D party line then complain about judges letting criminals go free.

    The driver of the (stolen) red SUV in the video below is subject to a detention hearing (no cash bail here) next week. There is no certainty he will be held.

    The occupants of the car he broadsided at a high rate of speed are in critical condition, including a 10yo girl wit brain bleeds, a crushed pelvis and broken femur, and damage to ribs and internal organs.

    https://youtu.be/bKYwCj_kcSI?t=17

    https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/new-video-shows-crash-that-left-a-father-and-daughter-in-critical-condition/

    Kevin M (1ea396)

  328. Have you considered moving to a red state, Kevin?

    norcal (7b2be1)

  329. rfk jr runs for president. Lets see if joe will debate him.

    asset (fc6d0e)

  330. Cheryl Hines as First Lady? Giddyup!

    norcal (7b2be1)

  331. Kevin. Paul’s preferences are well known. I don’t know why you persist.

    Radical leftist who will make law from the bench than jurist who advises how to stay within the law. It’s not rocket science. It’s what any Lincoln Project conservative would advise.

    NJRob (036753)

  332. “NPR says it’s totally normal to arrest political opponents. Countries like China do it all the time.”

    https://www.reddit.com/r/walkaway/comments/12cookg/npr_says_its_totally_normal_to_arrest_political/

    Colonel Haiku (730b94)

  333. Go, Jason Whitlock! Preach it!

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1643780624828846081

    Colonel Haiku (730b94)

  334. Clarence Thomas might have some ‘splaining to do. The federal judge at the apex of our judicial system has gotten some nice traveling and lodging perks from a megadonor by the name of Harlan Crow (the Crow of real estate titan Trammell Crow), none of which were reported on any financial disclosures.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  335. Twitter labels NPR as ‘state-affiliated media’

    The literary organization PEN America, in calling for Twitter to reverse the move, underlined that NPR “assiduously maintains editorial independence.”

    LMFAO

    JF (6c127d)

  336. Kevin. Paul’s preferences are well known. I don’t know why you persist.

    Yes, and they’re not “radical leftist” in your another attempt to smear. I already made clear what my bright line was. If I were a Wisconsin resident, I’d write in Judge Dredd, or even Judge Reinhold, not the two choices presented.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  337. @341 Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 7:31 am
    From propublica.org…yeah no, I wouldn’t trust anything from that Democrat propaganda outfit.

    whembly (d116f3)

  338. Sigh. Dan Kelly may be a Republican lawyer, but he is first a lawyer. How many billable hours can you squeeze into “No, don’t it”?

    nk (efbfca)

  339. NPR is state-affiliated media, but BBC which is supported by mandatory 12-month tax (formerly called a license) on every TV which can receive broadcast, cable, or streaming is not?

    Elon Musk is an erratic kook, and all he will ever get from me is a poop emoji.

    nk (efbfca)

  340. Just to be clear, a mandatory tax in a lump sum for 12 months every 12 months. Not quite an annual tax because it’s by the month not per anniversary date.

    nk (efbfca)

  341. I’ve read Patterico’s and others’ comments about Trump’s crimes getting bumped up to felonies, and I have no doubt that Trump is a criminal. After all, he literally runs a criminal enterprise (the felony-convicted Trump Organization) and ran two corrupt organizations (Trump U and Trump Foundation) that were shut down by the courts because they fatally corrupt, but I still have questions and I can’t shake my skepticism of this case, and Professor Shugerman expresses them better than I could.

    As a result of all this, Mr. Trump and the public still know shockingly little about the case — not which particular statute he allegedly violated or whether it is a state or federal campaign crime, a tax crime or something else. That’s why the indictment really contains only 34 half-counts. This open-ended indictment reflects a rule that jurors don’t have to agree on which underlying crime was committed, only that there had been an underlying crime, yet it is also standard when charging some cases to specify “crimes in the alternative.”

    Giving only partial notice might be standard operating procedure in Manhattan, but that standard procedure — suddenly in the bright lights yesterday — seems like a systemic infringement of a New Yorker’s right to know “the nature of the charges and evidence against you,” a normalized Sixth Amendment violation. On the bright side, maybe the backlash will force Manhattan prosecutors to end this general practice. Still, it is hard not to ask whether Mr. Trump was actually treated worse than other similarly situated defendants, because after so many years of delay, surely a Manhattan prosecutor would have informed another defendant of at least the basic underlying crimes and their statutory basis.
    […]
    Even based on the half-felony that we do know — the false business filing with “intent to defraud” — it remains unclear whether a court has ever allowed a false-filing conviction based on an entirely internal business record that no other party, like a bank, insurance company or customer, would have relied on. I am yet to see any legal experts who have argued for this statute as a basis for the case against Mr. Trump who has identified a New York case along these lines.

    In my own research, I have not yet found one. That hole in the case should have given prosecutors pause: What, in practice, is the meaning of “intent to defraud”? If a business record is internal, it is not obvious how a false filing could play a role in defrauding if other entities likely would not rely upon it and be deceived by it. Even if one can argue that the statute should apply to internal records, this is not the ideal time to test a seemingly novel (or even a very rare) application.

    Because of pre-emption, it’s entirely possible that the State of New York cannot prosecute a state case based on a federal election filing violation. The underlying crime, as best as we can tell from Mr. Bragg’s news conference and a statement to the press, is a campaign finance violation — spending money for a campaign cover-up without reporting it. However, for a federal election, there is what one might call “double pre-emption” or “confirmed pre-emption”: Both Congress and the State of New York agree that cases about federal campaign filings are for federal courts only, not for states.

    One other thing. Although the Statement of Facts includes Ms. McDougal, the felony charges all relate to Ms. Daniels, per Mr. French. Woman 1 is there because of Cohen’s guilty plea to a federal crime.

    I read that there were 34 felony counts. Do they relate to any transactions beyond Stormy Daniels?

    No, Trump is charged with felony counts related only to the Daniels hush-money payments. Each count relates to a discrete stage of each payment made to Cohen to reimburse him for paying Daniels.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  342. Here may be an opportunity for entrepeneur: As comments here sometimes remind us, some people need their asses replaced, or at least reconnected to their bodies. Perhaps someone could invent, and sell, a handy-dandy ass repair kit to help these unfortunates.

    Jim Miller (0e46f9)

  343. Well, as to the underlying crime, the defense has 28 days left to request a Bill of Particulars. The prosecution does not have to tell them how they intend to prove it, but unless the judge really hates Trump he can compel them to name it.

    nk (efbfca)

  344. Also, “Lincoln Project conservative” is a personal smear, and I let Haiku’s jab get by without comment.
    While I liked some of their commercials in their early days, once it became clear that they’re a Democrat fundraising operation that endorsed Democrats for public office, I’ve been agin ’em.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  345. steveg @318; Kevin M @320:

    New York law “currently prohibits audiovisual coverage of proceedings in which the testimony of witnesses by subpoena or other compulsory process is or may be taken.” Louisiana and the District of Columbia also have a complete ban on television coverage of trial proceedings.

    However, there is a bill in the New York legislature that would allow televised trials, at the discretion of the trial judge.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  346. “NPR says it’s totally normal to arrest political opponents. Countries like China do it all the time.”

    From the NPR article linked on Reddit:

    Plenty of other democracies have prosecuted their current or former leaders.

    Two former French presidents, Jacques Chirac and Nicolas Sarkozy, were convicted of corruption after their time in office. Former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi was found guilty of tax fraud in 2012 (though, over a decade later, was acquitted of several charges stemming from a 2010 sex-for-hire case).

    In South Korea, which has a long history of prosecuting its former leaders, former President Lee Myung-bak’s 17-year jail sentence for corruption was cut short when he got a presidential pardon last year. The previous year, a court upheld a 20-year jail sentence for former President Park Geun-hye over the corruption scandal that led to her impeachment in 2017.

    ……..Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, now in his sixth term, is facing three corruption cases. And Brazil’s president, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, was reelected three years after he was released from prison on corruption charges.

    China is not mentioned in the article at all.

    In addition, countries like Taiwan, Israel (one prime minister (Ehud Olmert) and one president (Moshe Katsav), as well as others), Peru (almost every president in the last 38 years), Argentina, Iceland, and Japan have prosecuted former leaders for corruption.

    Fail!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  347. From propublica.org…yeah no, I wouldn’t trust anything from that Democrat propaganda outfit.

    By default, I don’t trust left-of-center sources, or right-wing sources, but they established that Thomas went on these Crow-funded junkets, and they established that Thomas didn’t report any of the travel.
    This won’t go anywhere because the only remedy for this is impeachment and conviction, and it’s not a serious enough offense to warrant that, but don’t mean it ain’t wrong.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  348. As Predictable As The Sun Rising in the East:

    The judge overseeing the legal proceedings for former President Trump in the hush money payment case and his family have received multiple threats since Trump’s arrest on Tuesday, NBC News reported.
    ………
    Prior to his arraignment, Trump made suggestions that “potential death and destruction” could come from him facing charges. At the arraignment, Merchan warned Trump that he should “refrain” from social media posts that could incite violence.

    But Trump continued attacking Merchan and others involved in the case in a speech he gave Tuesday night following the arraignment. He reiterated his accusation that Merchan is a “Trump-hating judge” and railed against Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg (D), who requested a grand jury approve charges against Trump.

    Two sources familiar with the matter told NBC that Merchan and his family have received multiple threats in just the 24 hours following the hearing. An official said Merchan and his office have received “dozens” of threats recently but did not specify a time frame.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  349. Indict One—And All?

    No one is above the law? ROFLMAO

    Horatio (56364c)

  350. Here may be an opportunity for entrepeneur: As comments here sometimes remind us, some people need their asses replaced, or at least reconnected to their bodies. Perhaps someone could invent, and sell, a handy-dandy ass repair kit to help these unfortunates.

    Jim Miller (0e46f9) — 4/6/2023 @ 8:45 am

    Maybe you can retool your Kari Lake Hairdo Alert app?

    BuDuh (f2a9fb)

  351. @354

    By default, I don’t trust left-of-center sources, or right-wing sources, but they established that Thomas went on these Crow-funded junkets, and they established that Thomas didn’t report any of the travel.
    This won’t go anywhere because the only remedy for this is impeachment and conviction, and it’s not a serious enough offense to warrant that, but don’t mean it ain’t wrong.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 9:50 am

    He’s not required to disclose those things.

    Basically, they’re mad that he’s not a liberal and has rich friends who does things together.

    whembly (d116f3)

  352. “He’s not required to disclose those things.”

    Confidently incorrect.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5a/compiledact-95-521/title-I

    Davethulhu (fe2f72)

  353. “This won’t go anywhere because the only remedy for this is impeachment and conviction, and it’s not a serious enough offense to warrant that, but don’t mean it ain’t wrong.”

    Reviewing the above law it looks like the only penalty for failing to file is a fine “not to exceed $50,000”

    Davethulhu (fe2f72)

  354. @359

    “He’s not required to disclose those things.”

    Confidently incorrect.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5a/compiledact-95-521/title-I

    Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:10 am

    I’m confidently CORRECT.
    5 U.S.C. 13101 (14)

    Food, lodging or entertainment received as personal hospitality need not to be reported.

    ProPublica, the left-wing “charity” founded by Herb Sandler to tax-shelter the billions he made on the toxic subprime mortgages that blew up the financial system, is mad that Clarence Thomas has a rich friend. That’s what this boils down to…. hating on a black man who’s not a leftist.

    whembly (d116f3)

  355. @359 Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:10 am
    https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/financial_disclosure_filing_instructions.pdf

    See page #28

    whembly (d116f3)

  356. He’s not required to disclose those things.

    He’s required to disclose subsidized like travel, like free private jet rides, per the Ethics in Government Act of 1978. Quote:

    Therefore, the reporting exemption does not include:
    • gifts other than food, lodging or entertainment, such as transportation that substitutes for commercial transportation;

    Like I said, it’s not impeachable, but it’s still sketchy that a public servant get a free 9-day jaunt to Indonesia valued at $500k. It sounds veritably elitist.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  357. The Thomas story will probably give impetus to this bill.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  358. “I’m confidently CORRECT.
    5 U.S.C. 13101 (14)”

    Does not include travel.

    “hating on a black man who’s not a leftist.”

    You’re ridiculous.

    Davethulhu (fe2f72)

  359. #363 Paul Montagu (8f0dc7) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:29 am
    I’ll take this document as the source of truth:
    https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/financial_disclosure_filing_instructions.pdf

    whembly (d116f3)

  360. Does anyone think the Supreme Court justices should not have legally binding ethics rules (like all other federal judges)?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  361. @367 They *DO* Rip.
    https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/financial_disclosure_filing_instructions.pdf

    A gift is a payment, advance, forbearance, rendering, or deposit of money, or anything of value, unless consideration of equal or greater value is received by the donor. 5 U.S.C. § 13101(5). Food, lodging, or entertainment received as personal hospitality need not be reported. Personal hospitality means hospitality extended for a nonbusiness purpose by an individual, not a corporation or organization, at the personal residence of that individual or his or her family or on property or facilities owned by that individual or his or her family. 5 U.S.C. § 13101(14).

    whembly (d116f3)

  362. They have legally binding ethics rules but there is no enforcement mechanism. The only enforcement is impeachment.

    aphrael (841bdd)

  363. Whembly, if you read down a little further:

    The personal hospitality gift reporting exemption applies only to food, lodging, or entertainment
    and is intended to cover such gifts of a personal, non-business nature. Therefore, the reporting
    exemption does not include:
    • gifts other than food, lodging or entertainment, such as transportation that substitutes for
    commercial transportation
    ;
    • gifts extended for a business purpose;
    gifts extended at property or facilities owned by an entity, rather than by an individual or an
    individual’s family, even if the entity is owned wholly or in part by an individual or an
    individual’s family
    ;
    • gifts paid for by any individual or entity other than the individual providing the hospitality, or
    for which the individual providing the hospitality receives reimbursement or a tax deduction
    related to furnishing the hospitality; or
    gifts extended at a commercial property, e.g., a resort or restaurant, or at a property that is
    regularly rented out to others for a business purpose
    .

    Davethulhu (fe2f72)

  364. One more time on Mr. Kelly, loser of last Tuesday’s WI judicial race…

    A crime was allegedly committed in Manhattan. The punishment for Republicans’ ongoing indifference to such things was meted out in Wisconsin.

    In 2020 conservative Daniel Kelly ran for a seat on the Wisconsin Supreme Court and earned the endorsement of Donald Trump. He got his clock cleaned, losing by 10 points. After his defeat he went to work for the GOP on “election issues,” aiding the Republican effort to overturn Joe Biden’s narrow victory in Wisconsin.

    A rational party would have concluded post-midterm that Kelly is too jungled up with Trump and “Stop the Steal” to be worth renominating in 2023 in a tough race in a state which Trump did, after all, lose. But Kelly was renominated, narrowly.

    He got his clock cleaned again. As I write this on Wednesday afternoon, he trails progressive Janet Protasiewicz by 10 points precisely. Wisconsin Republicans may lose everything as a result—an abortion ban, favorable legislative maps, Scott Walker’s collective bargaining reforms—just as the party lost an incalculable amount in states like Arizona and Georgia last year when they insisted on nominating Trumpy candidates there as well.

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, Albert Einstein (never actually) said.* The post-rational Republican base in Wisconsin doubled down on a weak candidate, presumably for no better reasons than name recognition and a MAGA pedigree, despite abundant evidence that Kelly was unpopular with swing voters and would likely lose.

    That that lesson was being retaught in a key swing state last night in real time, at the very hour Trump was wheezing about his criminal jeopardy on national television to the ecstasy of fantasy-politics Republicans, was an irony so rich that the writers might never outdo it.

    Maybe no Republican candidate could’ve beat the Democrat in this state in this cycle for this position, but the WI GOP didn’t do themselves any favors with Kelly, a MAGA and proven judicial loser.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  365. I’ll take this document as the source of truth:

    whembly, I linked to that verysame document, even cut-and-pasted from it. Davethulhu cut-and-pasted even more from that verysame document. C’mon, man.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  366. @370 Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 11:59 am
    You left a very important verbiage:
    …is intended to cover such gifts of a personal, non-business nature

    whembly (d116f3)

  367. Everything I highlighted falls under that clause.

    Davethulhu (fe2f72)

  368. ProPublica notes that the document that everyone is cutting and pasting from was “recently updated”:

    Justices are generally required to publicly report all gifts worth more than $415, defined as “anything of value” that isn’t fully reimbursed. There are exceptions: If someone hosts a justice at their own property, free food and lodging don’t have to be disclosed. That would exempt dinner at a friend’s house. The exemption never applied to transportation, such as private jet flights, experts said, a fact that was made explicit in recently updated filing instructions for the judiciary.

    The 1st page of the document notes that the updates took place last month.

    Honest question, Is there an earlier version that Thomas was possibly violating, or is this some sort of ex post facto jiggery-pokery that the author and his investigators had to sneak the “recently updated” wordsmithing in to cover all the bases?

    I would think that the eternal hatred of Thomas and the longevity of this “scheme” would have crossed paths sometime sooner than a few days after the rules were updated. Why wasn’t he busted last year, or the year before? Everything seems so flagrant.

    BuDuh (f2a9fb)

  369. @Davethulhu @Paul Montagu
    https://www.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/financial_disclosure_filing_instructions.pdf
    Page 29 fairly spells it out.

    Thomas’ trip with his rich friend is fine.

    Commentary

    It is permissible for a judge to attend, and accept hospitality at bar association events and meetings of other organizations devoted to improvement of the law, legal system, or the administration of justice. With respect to attendance at cocktail parties hosted by law firms in connection with bar meetings, judicial conferences, and the like, there is no impropriety in a judge accepting such invitations in the absence of reason to believe that such attendance will reasonably reflect unfavorably on the judge’s impartiality or is likely to be exploited by the law firm. (Advisory Opinion No. 17.)

    The Gift Regulations include a number of exceptions to the prohibition against accepting gifts. Note that there are no exceptions to the prohibition against soliciting gifts. Under Section 620.35 of the Gift Regulations, a judicial officer or employee may accept (but not solicit) a gift in the following circumstances:
    • Public Testimonials. A gift made incident to a public testimonial and fairly commensurate with
    the occasion.
    • Complimentary Resources. A gift consisting of complimentary books, calendars, tapes, or other
    resource materials supplied for official use.
    • Reimbursement for Law-Related Travel. A gift consisting of an invitation and travel expenses—
    including transportation, food, and lodging for the judge or employee and a family member
    traveling with the judge or employee—to attend bar-related functions, educational activities, or
    other activities devoted to improvement of the law, legal system, or administration of justice.
    • Close Relatives and Friends. A gift made by a relative or friend of the judicial officer or employee, if that person’s appearance or interest in a matter otherwise would disqualify the judicial officer or employee from participating with respect to the matter, or if the gift is made in connection with a special occasion (for example, a wedding, anniversary, or birthday) and is fairly commensurate with the occasion and the relationship. (Ethics Deskbook for United States Judges, § 9.03)

    whembly (d116f3)

  370. “Thomas’ trip with his rich friend is fine.”

    Yes, it was fine for him to accept it. He still had to report it.

    Davethulhu (fe2f72)

  371. Treat Thomas like he’s a Democrat: action figures and a ticker-tape parade.

    Colonel Haiku (730b94)

  372. The Code of Conduct for United States Judges (the Code) is a set of ethical canons that the Judicial Conference of the United States (Judicial Conference) has adopted to promote public confidence in the integrity, independence, and impartiality of the federal judiciary. The Code governs the behavior of most federal judges; however, it does not explicitly apply to Justices of the U.S. Supreme Court. Although the Justices consult the Code, along with other sources, for guidance when performing their judicial duties, the Court is not presently subject to a defined body of general ethical rules.
    ……..
    By its explicit terms, the Code governs only the judges of the lower federal courts. It does not apply to Supreme Court Justices, nor has the Supreme Court formally promulgated its own ethical code. As a result, there is presently no single body of ethical canons with which the nation’s highest court must comply when discharging its judicial duties.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  373. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:11 pm

    The Code of Conduct for United States Judges

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  374. @379

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:11 pm

    Huh, thanks for that. I thought SC Justices were bound by the code.

    O.o

    So, Thomas nor any other SC Justice has to formally do anything.

    Goes to show, how important SC nominations is, as it’s important to get it right the first time.

    whembly (d116f3)

  375. Supreme court justices are bound by the “Ethics in Government Act of 1978” which is what all these links are referencing and what law he is accused of breaking.

    Davethulhu (fe2f72)

  376. Who is ProPubica to accuse anyone of anything?

    nk (efbfca)

  377. Supreme court justices are bound by the “Ethics in Government Act of 1978” which is what all these links are referencing and what law he is accused of breaking.

    Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:21 pm

    I was considering the broader lack of ethics rules for SC Justices, not just Thomas’s travel. He is basically accused of a non-enforceable failure to file a report. No biggie.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  378. I have read ProPubica’s lies masquerading as legal analysis before. I have forgotten what they were about, thankfully, but other commenters here also pointed them out at the time.

    nk (efbfca)

  379. It can be argued that it would violate the separation of powers if Congress imposed any requirements on the Supreme Court. It can be argued that the Ethics in Government Act shouldn’t apply to the courts at all.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  380. @382 Davethulhu (fe2f72) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:21 pm

    AH, yes I vaguely remember that last year (or a few years ago?) that law was updated to include reporting requirements for stock options, ala congress critters must do.

    The debate here, is what disclosure is required when extended by an individual for a non-business purpose.

    Scalia was famous for hunting at his wealthy friend’s resort and I’m sure he didn’t disclose that.

    Same with Kagan and Sotomeyer for staying at posh vacation homes provided by their friends at Martha’s Vinyard.

    All of these jurists are savvy at their job (and has their own staff to help with stuff like this), and it’d be surprising to think that they would do anything to circumvent disclosure requirements.

    Again, this is more bigotry by those who has hated Justice Thomas since he was nominated for SC.

    whembly (d116f3)

  381. @386

    It can be argued that it would violate the separation of powers if Congress imposed any requirements on the Supreme Court. It can be argued that the Ethics in Government Act shouldn’t apply to the courts at all.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/6/2023 @ 3:40 pm

    Eh… maybe? Not sure they’re interested in waging that battle and simply comply to the best of their ability.

    The Judicial Branch must give some concession to Congress, at the lease, because it is Congress that provides the judicial branch fundings.

    whembly (d116f3)

  382. Congress regulates all the official proceedings of the federal courts. But not their lives.

    nk (efbfca)

  383. The real question is whether Justice Thomas ever participated in a case involving Harlan Crow or Trammell Crow.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  384. Justice Thomas’s travels are old news:

    It was 2004 when the Los Angeles Times disclosed that Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas had accepted expensive gifts and private plane trips paid for by Harlan Crow, a wealthy Texas real estate investor and a prominent Republican donor.
    The gifts included a Bible that once belonged to abolitionist Frederick Douglass — a gift Thomas valued at $19,000 — and a bust of Abraham Lincoln valued at $15,000.

    “I just knew he was a fan of Frederick Douglass, and I saw that item come available at an auction and I bought it for him,” Crow explained at the time.
    ………
    Thomas refused to comment on the article, but it had an impact: Thomas appears to have continued accepting free trips from his wealthy friend. But he stopped disclosing them.
    ………
    It remains unclear whether Thomas has violated any law or regulation by accepting such gifts and not disclosing them.

    Since 1978, the Ethics in Government Act has required judges and justices to report travel costs and other expenses that are provided to them by groups, universities and other such entities. However, it includes an exception for the “personal hospitality of any individual,” so long as the travel does not involve official business.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  385. whembly (d116f3) — 4/6/2023 @ 2:16 pm

    Sigh. The subject isn’t the receipt of the largesse, it’s the reporting.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  386. Hi Paul,

    To engage whembly for a moment, do you know whether or not Scalia reported his trips to the desert to hunt or Kagan — stays at fancy places in Martha’s Vinyard? (I don’t and I am not casting shade here). If they did, then Thomas may have a problem.

    Thomas has been a focus of the left — partly because of old bad memories, I’m sure. But also because of Ginny Thomas, and what she does for a living.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  387. Ohhhh. I think someone mentioned this earlier but it didn’t register with me. O.o

    The reporting requirements were recently changed.

    This is propublica doing a switcharoo, and continuing their long history of ‘hating on the black man who isn’t a leftist while sitting at the scotus”.

    Per Shannon Bream, J. Thomas responded:
    https://twitter.com/ShannonBream/status/1644357917074759680

    @ShannonBream
    Statement from Justice Thomas: Harlan and Kathy Crow are among our dearest friends, and we have been friends for over twenty-five years. As friends do, we have joined them on a number of family trips during the more than quarter century we have known them. 1/

    @ShannonBream
    J. Thomas (cont): Early in my tenure at the Court, I sought guidance from my colleagues and others in the judiciary, and was advised that this sort of personal hospitality from close personal friends, who did not have business before the Court, was not reportable.

    @ShannonBream
    J. Thomas (cont): I have endeavored to follow that counsel throughout my tenure, and have always sought to comply with the disclosure guidelines. 3/

    @ShannonBream
    J. Thomas: These guidelines are now being changed, as the committee of the Judicial Conference responsible for financial disclosure for the entire federal judiciary just this past month announced new guidance. And, it is, of course, my intent to follow this guidance in the future

    whembly (d116f3)

  388. Appalled (03f53c) — 4/7/2023 @ 8:22 am

    I don’t have an answer, but Scalia had gotten his share of scrutiny and condemnation from the Left.

    Paul Montagu (8f0dc7)

  389. I think someone mentioned this earlier but it didn’t register with me. O.o

    The reporting requirements were recently changed.

    This is propublica doing a switcharoo, and continuing their long history of ‘hating on the black man who isn’t a leftist while sitting at the scotus”.

    See here:
    https://patterico.com/2023/04/04/trump-arraignment-open-thread/#comment-2701638

    BuDuh (f2a9fb)

  390. From the GOP sponsored documentary on his life:

    “I prefer the RV parks. I prefer the Walmart parking lots to the beaches and things like that. There’s something normal to me about it,” Thomas said. “I come from regular stock, and I prefer that — I prefer being around that.”

    Just another lying, bureaucratic government bureaucrat.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/clarence-thomas-luxury-vacations-walmart-parking-lot.html

    How that search for the leaker going, Clarence?

    DCSCA (3999e1)

  391. @396 BuDuh (f2a9fb) — 4/7/2023 @ 11:17 am
    Apologies for not picking up on that!

    whembly (d116f3)

  392. No problem, Whembly!

    BuDuh (f2a9fb)

  393. Rip Murdock (740542) — 4/4/2023 @ 7:53 pm

    According to NY law, Identifying the underlying crime is not required in the indictment. See post 149.

    An the jury doesn’t have to agree on what the underlying crime was.

    But this contradicts the spirit of the 6th amendment or more. Bragg is not even arguing in the alternative. (although he dropped some hints)

    This is a little like the Watergate coverup trial where they never set out to prove an underlying crime that was being covered up, IIRC.

    Bragg kept his options open. Maybe he’s trying to think up more.

    The underlying crime(s) could be: (as I understand it:)

    1) Federal campaign law violations

    2) A New York State law that criminalizes preventing any person from being elected to office by unlawful means, while acting inn a conspiracy with others (presumably another way to bring federal campaign lw within his jurisdiction

    3) Fraudulently causing Michael Cohen to pay too much in income taxes to New York Stat – (Also the federal government, but this would make it a pure New York State crime)

    now Michael Cohen knew all about this and did this voluntarily)

    Sammy Finkelman (03b88b)


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