Patterico's Pontifications

9/15/2022

Gov. DeSantis Defends Decision To Fly Migrants to Martha’s Vineyard

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:44 am



[guest post by Dana]

Fox News reports:

Lawmakers in Massachusetts were tasked with caring for dozens of migrants Wednesday after Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis sent two planes full of migrants to Martha’s Vineyard, a ritzy island located in Dukes County.

On Wednesday, Democratic lawmakers voiced their criticism online after they were forced to act swiftly to provide shelter, food, blankets and other necessities to the 50 migrants who now reside in their state.

From the Florida governor’s office:

“Florida can confirm the two planes with illegal immigrants that arrived in Martha’s Vineyard [Wednesday] were part of the state’s relocation program to transport illegal immigrants to sanctuary destinations. States like Massachusetts, New York, and California will better facilitate the care of these individuals who they have invited into our country by incentivizing illegal immigration through their designation as ‘sanctuary states’ and support for the Biden administration’s open border policies.”

Details:

The news broke Wednesday night as Fox News and Martha’s Vineyard news organizations reported the surprise charter flights that dumped at least 50 migrants on the popular island vacation spot for the well-heeled. Martha’s Vineyard is an island south of Cape Cod, popular for summer vacations for rich elites and accessible only by plane or ferry. The exact route of the flights remain unclear on Thursday, although one Massachusetts Democratic lawmaker told reporters one flight left from San Antonio. The website Flightaware shows one flight originated in San Antonio, stopped in Crestview, Florida, and Charlotte, North Carolina, before landing in Martha’s Vineyard on Wednesday afternoon.

The flights were billed as part of a new program to “remove” illegal immigrants from Florida, one created by lawmakers supporting DeSantis’ hard-line stance on immigration. DeSantis…has claimed the program is necessary to fight back against the “Biden border crisis.”

DeSantis pushed back against criticism for his decision:

“We take what’s happening at the southern border very seriously, unlike some, and unlike the president of the United States,” DeSantis said. “You’ve had millions and millions of people pouring across illegally, record amount of fentanyl coming into our country.”

He said many migrants want to end up in Florida because “everyone wants to come to Florida.”

“We’ve worked on innovative ways to protect the state of Florida from the impact of Biden’s border policies,” he said.

DeSantis said that all states should share the burden of settling migrants and that it shouldn’t fall to “a handful of red states.”

“If you have folks who are inclined to think Florida is a good place, our message to them is we are not a sanctuary state, it’s better to be able to go to a sanctuary jurisdiction,” he said. “We will help facilitate that transport for you, so you can go to greener pastures.”

Reports say that Gov. DeSantis has $12 million in Florida’s budget approved by the state legislature to relocate illegal immigrants from his state.

Also, the 50 migrants flown to Martha’s Vineyard were from Venezuela and Colombia. From all accounts, the residents of Martha’s Vineyard have risen to the occasion, and are providing food, shelter, and relief to the migrants. It remains to be seen for how long.

–Dana

212 Responses to “Gov. DeSantis Defends Decision To Fly Migrants to Martha’s Vineyard”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. Colombia

    Colonel Haiku (10c2fa)

  3. Martha’s Vineyard and other blue cities and areas need to experience just a taste of what border states and towns have been forced to deal with.

    They should do the work and take on their fair share. It’s only right.

    And it gets closer to being equitable!!!

    Colonel Haiku (10c2fa)

  4. This is all part of plot by extreme conservatives to make all people as heartless as they are, hoping that that will keep taxes low. It is a general lack of compassion they are after, not just for non U.S. people because people will not distinguish between the very needy according to who they are unless they are really, really racist..

    The problem, if problem it is, is caused by CIS dysfunction. They are supposed to issue to asylum applicants papers allowing them to work no later than 30 days after they apply for asylum. It’s actually taking six months, according to New York mayor Eric Adams. (but then nothing in immigration works as it is theoretically supposed to)

    So the cities are supposed to take care of them without being able to help them find work, which would be the easiest thing to do..

    This is caused by laws, because there was no problem with Houston taking care of people who left New Orleans because of Hurricane Katrina in 2005. The “conservatives” want to have any critics then scream as loudly (and as ignorantly) as they do that no quarter should be given to anyone, and that the U.S. should violate treaties, and its own laws. (except they don’t mention that last part. It would complicate matters.)

    There is no prior contact made with places they are being sent to, in order to maximize the sudden budgetary impact – otherwise they could find charitable groups, or friends relatives and countrymen. They are trying to force cities and states to also violate their own laws (about public assistance – New York has a policy since 1981 of not denying shelter to any homeless person for even one night)

    New York City Eric Mayor Adams wants to be reimbursed by the federal government (another bit of posturing. It’s probably a futile request -that might require an act of congress)

    If they were allowed to work they could send some of them to dairy farms, which need and could use help. If they came at their own pace, it would be easier to deal with.

    People from Venezuela don’t have much of a community, except in Florida. DeSantis is maybe sending them to nowhere when he could find foster families, or relatives.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  5. what’s to “defend”?

    many tens of thousands of migrants have been flown to destinations unknown under this administration, at taxpayer expense, and no one here or in state media has ever asked demented joe to defend it

    JF (5d42d8)

  6. Joe Biden can’t catch a break.

    Suppose Biden does “control the border”; Limiting the number of people admitted to the United States.

    One day (Monday September 13, 2022: it’s this:

    https://nypost.com/cover/september-13-2022

    Two days later it’s this:

    https://nypost.com/cover/september-15-2022/

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  7. @JF If nobody notices them they’re not a problem Because real problems, like increasing crime, or inflation, are noticed

    The Republican governors are trying to create a problem

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  8. There is something more than a little stinky about this story:

    https://www.npr.org/2022/09/15/1123109768/migrants-sent-to-marthas-vineyard

    One big question — why is Florida involved at all? These folks were flown from Texas.

    Appalled (f5d333)

  9. If nobody notices them they’re not a problem Because real problems, like increasing crime, or inflation, are noticed
    The Republican governors are trying to create a problem
    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/15/2022 @ 12:28 pm

    the view from Martha’s Vineyard, where problems in border towns aren’t real problems

    JF (5d42d8)

  10. FJoe Biden can’t catch a break.

    First he gets criticized for not keeping migrants out.

    Then they find an instance when he did.

    Then he gets lambasted in a front page New York Post story, for doing just that

    https://nypost.com/2022/09/14/biden-sold-out-haitian-democracy-for-a-migrant-deal-ex-envoy (story ,or column, on page 4 and 5)

    The Biden administration scuttled Haiti’s plans for free elections and backed a de facto dictator in exchange for his willingness to accept deportees, America’s former envoy to the country says.

    Daniel Foote, the Biden- appointed former US special envoy to Haiti, says the administration has supported Dr. Ariel Henry — who took power as both acting prime minister and acting president after the assassination of President Jovenel Moise — because he was willing to accept Haitian migrants who have rushed the US border.

    Henry was supposed to have organized new elections by now. But in September 2021, a large group of Haitian migrants camped in Del Rio, Texas, and images of the encampment — including border agents on horseback trying to prevent them from crossing the river — caused a political headache for President Biden.
    Henry agreed to take in deported Haitians, Foote says, and the Biden administration stopped pushing for democracy on the Caribbean nation.

    The cover of “Overrun: How Joe Biden Unleashed the Greatest Border Crisis in U.S. History.”

    Foote discussed Biden’s rationale in “Overrun: How Joe Biden Unleashed the Greatest Border Crisis in US History.”

    “I am confident that the chief reason they did that is his [Henry’s] malleability and the fact that he agreed that he would take all the deportees that they wanted to send. It wasn’t long after that . . . we started putting them on planes,” Foote told me in an interview for my forthcoming book, “Overrun: How Joe Biden Unleashed the Greatest Border Crisis in U.S. History.”

    “The US carried out a non-democratic transfer of power. We were just kicking the can down the road so that we don’t upset the vote moving toward the midterms.”

    The question is, how do they expect Biden to slowdown migration except by making deals with corrupt politicians and dictators???

    Sometimes to endanger their lives.

    The problem is that Joe Biden has no principles. That’s why he does a little bit of this, a little bit of that, according to who is putting the political pressure on him and who will notice. (Biden is basically a moderate, but there are few things he cares about, and few people, especially not people who don’t vote in U.S. >elections)

    And nobody in the Administration attempts to defend or explain the actual policy, but just tell lies about what is going on. Biden lies or says nothing about this just like he lies or says nothing about everything the federal government is doing – always putting forth a positive spin, even if the spin can only be used for a short time before it will become obviously untrue..

    The Republicans never say what they would do. (or say anything real, at any rate)

    .

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  11. Biden’s folks had the same plan in June. Since homelessness is on the rise in LA, ABQ and other targeted cities, it’s not hard to imagine that they’ve been doing this all along.

    Amid border surge, Biden admin plans to send migrants to cities deeper inside U.S., starting with L.A., say internal documents

    DHS officials have jokingly referred to the model as the “Abbott plan,” an official said, referring to Texas Gov. Abbott’s decision to bus migrants from Texas to D.C….

    The new model would use federal funds to send migrants to shelters in cities farther inside the country before they go to their final destinations. Besides Los Angeles, they will be sent to Albuquerque, New Mexico; Houston; Dallas; and other cities. DHS is working with shelters in each of the cities in advance of moving migrants. The agency’s Southwest Border Coordination Center, which combines officials from the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, CBP and other agencies, is coordinating the effort.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  12. If nobody notices them they’re not a problem Because real problems, like increasing crime, or inflation, are noticed

    We’ve noticed in Albuquerque, as there is a lot more crime and homelessness. But the Democrat mayor and Democrat governor have been blind to it. The local newspaper is all in for the Dems, so they’re all “hard to say why — must be the lack of jobs”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  13. The Republicans never say what they would do. (or say anything real, at any rate)

    Mainly because Trump has continued to make the GOP discussion all about him.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  14. But isn’t Albuquerque not locking people up in jails?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  15. New New York Post story:

    https://nypost.com/2022/09/15/biden-quietly-pushing-mexico-to-take-migrants-under-title-42/

    Biden quietly pushing Mexico to take migrants under Title 42: reportBiden quietly pushing Mexico to take migrants under Title 42: report

    The White House has secretly been urging Mexico to take in more illegal immigrants expelled from the US under the Title 42 health policy — despite the administration publicly claiming it wants to scrap it, according to a new report.

    Mexico already accepts migrants from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador that have been turned away by the US.

    But Reuters reports Biden administration officials are now pressuring Mexico City to resettle migrants from Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela as the border crisis escalates and crossings soar to record highs.

    Secretary of State Antony Blinken raised concerns about the surge of migrants from those three countries during an official visit on Monday, two US and two Mexican officials told the wire service….

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  16. Mexico can’t deport people to Cuba Nicaragua and Venezuela either. It can only increase the risk of death for people crossing the border into Mexico. (Which was Obama’s spolicy)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  17. Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/15/2022 @ 12:45 pm

    poor, poor demented joe

    Biden ditched the effective Remain in Mexico policy, and is trying to ditch Title 42, and he has incentivized more lawlessness at the border by flying migrants at taxpayer expense to their destination of choice

    migrants aren’t dumb, they know how to game the asylum system and respond to incentives

    they send their children unaccompanied cuz they know the border patrol will take them in and send them to sponsors, free of charge

    the responsibility for the ongoing abuse belongs to this lawless administration and its defenders

    JF (5d42d8)

  18. But isn’t Albuquerque not locking people up in jails?

    Yes, that, too. No cash bail. “Better Call Saul” is no joke. But embrace “AND” since these are the same Democrats writing those policies, too.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  19. They are not breaking down the statistics Here’s a try at explaining it.

    https://www.krqe.com/plus/data-reporting/why-is-violent-crime-going-up-albuquerque

    Another theory to explain the increase in violent crime, Lyons says, is “de-policing.” It’s the idea that police have recently been less vigorous in their routine police work because of social pressure.

    Has there been de-policing.in Albuquerque?Albuquerque does have one of the worst police departments for police killings. And it had protests.

    Is this article hiding any connection to Spanish speaking people?

    I think Albuquerque is a place where drug gangs have established themselves.

    https://www.krqe.com/news/crime/fbi-led-raids-focus-on-gangs-drug-trafficking-in-albuquerque

    KRQE News 13 knows of at least two people involved who aren’t in custody. Altogether, those 15 people have been arrested 239 times.

    The crimes range from drugs, guns, and violent felonies. The feds say another gang was working with the SNM prison gang to bring in drugs and guns to Albuquerque. The United State Attorney calls this the biggest seizure in his career. FBI Special Agents say with so many drugs and firearms off the street, the community could see less crime. “You’ve taken one big piece out of the equation so we hope that at least in the short term we’re going to see a reduction in crime,” said Bujanda.

    Maybe, but the market for drugs may be saturated.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  20. https://www.kob.com/uncategorized/feds-reveal-new-details-on-extensive-gang-activity-murders-in-albuquerque/

    Federal agents said the raid was a big hit to the two gangs they’re focusing on, gangs which they said have a decades-long history of murder, kidnapping and pumping millions of dollars of drugs into the city: the Syndicato de Nuevo Mexico, a prison gang abbreviated SNM, and the Sureños, Spanish for southerners, which started in southern California.

    Federal court documents gave new insight into how they operate and what crimes members may have committed, including recent murders, and how extensive the operation is to combat them.

    People were afraid to report crimes.

    Many of these suspects came from California because “New Mexico was an easy place to live… and be us.” Informants say gang members have said the Land of Enchantment has looser laws and a lower cost of living compared to the Golden State.

    California, not Mexico?

    They still could have brought in a few people from south of the border, or other gangs could have.

    Albuquerque, for not, probably should not be a destination for anyone..

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  21. If the mayors of New York, Chicago, and MV had any brains, they would hold illegals at the airport and fly them right back.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  22. Ahh, shut up! Those assholes, Abbott, DeSantis et ilk, are not fooling anybody. They want illegals. To bus their tables, and mow their lawns, and skin their cows, and pick their oranges. Their problem is that they’re getting more than they can use. “Use”!

    So they’re using them another way. To make trouble. But these are people they’re moving around like checkers. “People”!

    nk (f19844)

  23. nk,

    so everyone should share in the cheap labor largess

    EPWJ (650a62)

  24. If the mayors of New York, Chicago, and MV had any brains, they would hold illegals at the airport and fly them right back.
    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/15/2022 @ 1:58 pm

    LOL against their will?

    once they’re let in, these people can go wherever they want

    nobody forced them on the planes and buses, but you’d force them back based on what law?

    JF (bbcf99)

  25. Problem for de santis and abbot. what if people in the north send “STUFF” to their residences or their supporters. Then they might think its so funny.

    asset (31016e)

  26. Yeah, that’s the other thing. This sh[]t is for AOC’s gutter trash, not Americans.

    nk (13fc64)

  27. Martha’s Vineyard is . . . . interesting. The population consists of rich people, and their servants — who find it a hard place to live during the winter months. That the Obamas choose to live there for much of the year tells us a lot about their values.

    (There is one plus: Like George W. Bush’s Crawford ranch, it makes the job of the Secret Service, easier.)

    Cross posted at Political Betting.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  28. The place to dump these illegal cockroaches ain’t Martha’s Vinyard, Massachusetts; it’s Rehoboth Beach, Delaware.

    DCSCA (cfdd52)

  29. Q: What’s the difference between cast-off refugees and Alan Dershowitz?
    A: Nothing. Neither are welcome on Martha’s Vineyard.

    It’s fairly ridiculous that DeSantis had to import his Venezuelans from Texas to transport to Massachusetts, instead of scrounging around Florida for illegal immigrants to take to the nether Blue regions.
    It’s equally ridiculous that DeSantis chose Venezuelans since they’re in a similar socialist plight as Cubans, an ethnic group that Floridians welcomed to their shores.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  30. Paul,

    its fairly rediculous that you think you’re a conservative

    EPWJ (650a62)

  31. EPWJ (650a62) — 9/15/2022 @ 4:43 pm

    I not only think so, EP, I’ve been one longer than you.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  32. Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/15/2022 @ 4:25 pm

    Good point, Paul. I hate to say it, but it’s a little reminiscent of Trump–making bold moves with little thought given to details.

    norcal (da5491)

  33. It’s just one more example of DeSantis trying to out-Trump the leader of the GOP, norcal, and this is just one more PR spectacle.
    I actually don’t care that he went through this bit of social-influencer politics, because that’s the status quo for my increasingly silly party, but he could’ve at least rounded up illegals in his home state who didn’t escape from a socialist/communist regime.
    Back in the era when Reagan still counted for something, we opened our doors to victims of Marxist rule. But what did DeSantis do? He made them political props for his reelection campaign.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  34. https://nypost.com/2021/11/06/desantis-office-claims-border-officials-secretly-sent-70-planes-of-migrants-to-florida/

    The US has sent over 70 flights of migrants from the Mexican border to Jacksonville, Florida since the summer — but the Biden administration has not disclosed any information about the clandestine transports, Gov. Ron DeSantis’ office claimed.
    The alleged flights — which landed in overnight hours — come as officials struggle to deal with overcrowding at border facilities, according to The Washington Examiner.

    “Over 70 air charter flights [on] jetliner airliners coming from the southwest border have landed at Jacksonville International Airport,” Larry Keefe, the Republican governor’s public safety czar, told the outlet.

    “On average, there’s 36 passengers on each of these flights. And that has been going on over the course of the summer through September.”

    Just a reminder what our totalitarian government does with the cover of darkness.

    NJRob (556156)

  35. Sammy,

    Illegal aliens have no right to be here. What part do you not comprehend?

    NJRob (556156)

  36. Paul except for your obvious socialist fascist leanings….

    On;y an antifa supporter would think its unfair to send busloads of illegal immigrants to those causing the problem

    EPWJ (650a62)

  37. Paul except for your obvious socialist fascist leanings

    Sorry, man, I stopped reading after laughing that stupid hyperbole.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  38. You’re both missing Paul’s point.

    norcal (da5491)

  39. Some people are so buy flinging poo that they can’t be bothered to address an actual point.

    norcal (da5491)

  40. @33, Paul, that’s a good point, but I doubt it will hurt him. The GOP primary voter isn’t likely to care about that and a general election swing voter isn’t likely to know.

    Time123 (7a9d84)

  41. BTW, norcal, if it came down to a primary between Ron and Don, chances are 100% that I’ll vote for Ron.
    In the general, I’ll vote for Ron over Joe, unless Ron joins the Big Lie crowd and then it’s Door #3 (a non-batsh-t Republican).
    Bottom line, just because I’m favorably inclined toward DeSantis, don’t make him a sacred cow.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  42. I also prefer Ron to Don, and Ron to Joe, Paul. However, I’m ready and willing to call balls and strikes on any candidate.

    Never fall in love with a politician!

    norcal (da5491)

  43. Desantis appears to have a geography AND political knowledge problem. The border states, for this purpose, are California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. Florida is NOT a border state. Two of the states that ARE are blue states, one is purple and only ONE is red. Also, spend 12 million dollars to charter a plane to ship 50 people to California and we will laugh in your face. Really? Really Desantis? You had to borrows 50 people from Texas to pull your political stunt?

    Nic (896fdf)

  44. The Democratic party opposes enforcement of immigration law as a matter of course. This is an attack on US sovereignty, and much is justified in response. The border states should not have to bear the entirety of this burden, created by deliberate federal policy.

    mikeybates (4fa462)

  45. @mikey@44 I mean, CA could send people to North Dakota?

    Nic (896fdf)

  46. Rons a stolen election kinda guy so are 80 percent od republicans 60 percent of independent and over a third of democrats

    EPWJ (650a62)

  47. Moderate conservative, moderate libertarian, failed Democrat, failed Republican, and now back in the GOP

    This is how someone claims to be a lifelong conservative.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  48. @31. … and the RINO blows his horn.

    DCSCA (6e94ca)

  49. Rons a stolen election kinda guy so are 80 percent od republicans 60 percent of independent and over a third of democrats

    No!

    nk (098d76)

  50. 47… sorry, Rob… your lesson falls upon deaf ears.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  51. Why don’t they just ship them to Alaska? They want a “better life”? There are plenty of jobs in fishing and oil up there.

    (And if they want to “walk back” from up there, they have that option as well…)

    B.W. Smith (e771a4)

  52. There will probably have to be a certain amount of humoring those who believe something was wrong with the 2020 election if Republicans want to re-gain Congress and the Presidency.

    The question is what kind of humoring, and to what degree.

    Concomitantly, voters will need to make their best guesses as to who truly believes Trump’s lies, and will do something about them beyond making elections more secure, and who is threading the needle.

    Behold what Gore, Hillary, Stacy, and Trump hath wrought. The first three shot holes in the boat with their .22s, and then Trump blew a gaping hole in it with his .44 Magnum.

    norcal (da5491)

  53. Entonces!

    Colonel Haiku (88c115)

  54. Just a reminder what our totalitarian government does with the cover of darkness.

    NJRob (556156) — 9/15/2022 @ 5:02 pm

    This is hyperbole, and you seem prone to it.

    If our government was truly totalitarian, your comment would be deleted and you would be in jail.

    norcal (da5491)

  55. I mean, CA could send people to North Dakota?
    Nic (896fdf) — 9/15/2022 @ 5:58 pm

    why the hypothetical?

    demented joe is already doing that

    JF (461797)

  56. Not yet norcal, but they are well on their way or haven’t you been paying attention to the “relationship” between our leftist government and their enforcers in social media.

    You used to be interesting. What happened?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  57. Haiku,

    it is sad how so many have changed their beliefs because the wrong person won the presidency. In many ways it reminds me of Charles Johnson who turned on everything he once claimed to believe.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  58. This is how someone claims to be a lifelong conservative.

    Yes, it actually is, Rob.
    The last time I was a Democrat was in 1979-1980, when I transitioned to conservative and Reagan Republican, hence “failed Democrat”.
    I left the GOP in 2013 (hence “failed Republican”) and became an independent for five years. I returned in 2018 and am a Republican in good standing.
    Doing the math, that’s 42 years as a conservative and 37 as a Republican, which is much longer than the leader of my party, and of course longer than you and longer than EPWJ.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  59. @JF@55 Because California is not sending illegal immigrants to North Dakota.

    Nic (896fdf)

  60. Back in the era when Reagan still counted for something, we opened our doors to victims of Marxist rule. But what did DeSantis do? He made them political props for his reelection campaign.
    Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/15/2022 @ 4:57 pm

    if they were all asylum low wage job seekers from Guatemala, you’d still be whining about DeSantis, so quit with the Reagan BS

    Biden has been flying Venezuelan refugees around the country on secret flights in the dead of night since inauguration and it didn’t elicit a fart from you

    JF (45fe6b)

  61. “it is sad how so many have changed their beliefs because the wrong person won the presidency. In many ways it reminds me of Charles Johnson who turned on everything he once claimed to believe.”

    True, Rob. What I’ve noted is how many of the longtime posters from a decade or more have decided to leave for good. And how so many of the political polemicists that were respected around here (e.g., Victor Davis Hanson) have become heretics and have been supplanted by the likes of Aaron Rupar, Bill Kristol, Rick Wilson, Jonah Goldberg.

    Signs and wonders.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  62. Because California is not sending illegal immigrants to North Dakota.
    Nic (896fdf) — 9/15/2022 @ 7:33 pm

    Nic, you don’t play dumb very convincingly

    that’s a compliment

    JF (45fe6b)

  63. Sigh.

    Nic (896fdf)

  64. Illegal aliens have no right to be here. What part do you not comprehend?

    NJRob (556156) — 9/15/2022 @ 5:03 pm

    yeah i don’t know why we’re moving on from this accurate point.

    Ron should have flown them outside the USA. Not that I mind the little display of sending them to Martha’s Vineyard. I think that’s hilarious.

    but the solution isn’t to allocate illegals to the right places. It is to curb illegal immigration by building barriers where that can be done, fighting the cartels, and cutting incentives.

    As long as people smirk that Texan border towns should just deal with it, I’m OK with shipping them off to Chicago and DC.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  65. it is sad how so many have changed their beliefs because the wrong person won the presidency. In many ways it reminds me of Charles Johnson who turned on everything he once claimed to believe.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/15/2022 @ 7:18 pm

    I don’t know about all that. We haven’t had a right person as an option in a general election in a long time. Best we’ve had is W, since Reagan. Comparing even Bill Clinton to the choices today is disturbing. Watch ole Billy talk about something off the teleprompter. He was a sleaze, but he read his homework, knew and thought about the issues, and was generally not incompetent. The kinds of budgets they had back then make us look insane today. Because our leaders are.

    Most of us agree on general things, and freak out about how much we hate eachother’s views (look at the stupid discussion of who is a real conservative in here). Safety, jobs, fairness. We see nutty people raise a lot more money and snuff out from oxygen depravation anyone who is boring (and normal). The left has defunding the police. The right has election conspiracy talk. I say that as someone who wants cops held to high standards, and thinks elections aren’t secure enough.

    Maybe Trump changed some minds, but I don’t see how. I still don’t know what he really believes, because he went from praising Hillary to saying she should be locked up (to saying she shouldn’t be). He was not a man of family values, nor a man who balanced any budgets, so I’m not sure why we’d pretend he is conservative. Biden’s even worse in a lot of ways. A fake uniter, an empty suit, and history will remember him as a referendum on Trump.

    I hope to see some winners nominated next time, but this hope underlines the problem. Our federal government, its executive, is way too important. A cultural figurehead, a bureaucrat king.

    Dustin (a87c64)

  66. if they were all asylum low wage job seekers from Guatemala, you’d still be whining about DeSantis, so quit with the Reagan BS

    So you’re rendering judgment on a bullsh-t hypothetical? Classic, JF, and not honest.
    My comment was clear, that I wouldn’t have had an issue with DeSantis’ political stunt if he took the illegals from the state he governs and that they shouldn’t have be victims of socialist/communist paradises a la the island prison of Cuba. But sure, go with “nyah nyah, I don’t believe you”, it’s par for this rotting political party.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  67. Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/15/2022 @ 8:06 pm

    no montagu, I don’t believe you cuz you’ve had over a year to call out Biden for doing the same thing and you’ve not said a peep

    JF (45fe6b)

  68. no montagu, I don’t believe you cuz you’ve had over a year to call out Biden for doing the same thing and you’ve not said a peep

    You’re lying.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  69. You’re lying.
    Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/15/2022 @ 8:40 pm

    show a comment where you called him out on the issue, and I’ll gladly apologize

    otherwise, one of us is lying

    JF (45fe6b)

  70. No, JF, you made the claim.
    My longstanding view has been that Biden has been way too soft on border enforcement.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  71. No, JF, you made the claim.
    My longstanding view has been that Biden has been way too soft on border enforcement.
    Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/15/2022 @ 8:55 pm

    You’re lying.

    JF (45fe6b)

  72. If, oh he’s a fabulous a full bore narcissistic anti conservative

    EPWJ (650a62)

  73. Ah, JF, so now you’re burden-shifting and lying. Classy guy. The way it works is that if you make an assertion, like the election was “stolen”, then it’s on you to back it up.

    You know, if you wanted to enter into a conversation honestly or in good faith, you would said something like, “Paul, I haven’t seen you call out Biden on immigration or the border.” That would’ve been honest, because I’m sure you haven’t.
    And I would’ve said, “I have, but it’s not a top-five issue for me, so I don’t weigh in much, but my position is that Biden has been incompetent on the subject.”

    But instead, you chose to make sh-t up and make a blanket accusation.

    BTW, this is what I said last February.

    Biden’s incompetence at the southern border fits in the “Biden failed” column, along with an energy policy that only added to our inflation rate.

    I expect you to retract and apologize.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  74. Ohhh one comment. Such bravery

    EPWJ (650a62)

  75. You are moving the goalposts, EPWJ.

    JF said “show a comment”.

    norcal (da5491)

  76. Ohhh one comment. Such bravery

    EPWJ (650a62) — 9/15/2022 @ 10:28 pm

    It’s one more comment than you or JF have come up with of Paul defending Biden’s border policy. Unless you have such comments to show us, that one is enough to demonstrate JF falsely accused Paul of lying. Why not take the L like a man?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  77. Forgot to refresh before posting, so I didn’t see norcal’s comment.

    What he said.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  78. de satan sending refuges to martha’s vinyard, they better not have communicable diseases as that is terrorism against another state. Also their are typhoid mary laws and this would make de satan guilty of conspiracy to break communicable disease laws.

    asset (e07469)

  79. Ohhh one comment. Such bravery

    Said the guy who also lied that I voted for Biden. I expect a retraction and apology from you, too, EP. I also recall that you were put in the Patterico cooler for a spell because of your dishonest claims about the 2020 election.

    BTW, Patterico wrote commenting rules, and the nut of them are…

    That leads me to the key principle: DO NOT MISCHARACTERIZE OTHER PEOPLE’S POSITIONS. Also, do not mischaracterize other people’s positions. One more thing: do not mischaracterize other people’s positions.

    So let’s abide by them.

    Look, I get it, I’ve been a conservative and Republican longer than Rob and JF and you, and you’re triggered, but try to move past that.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  80. de satan sending refuges to martha’s vinyard, they better not have communicable diseases as that is terrorism against another state.

    Under what statute?

    (It’s not terrorism.)

    Also their are typhoid mary laws and this would make de satan guilty of conspiracy to break communicable disease laws.

    Can you prove that, knowing they had the diseases, he conspired with others in a scheme to send them there for that purpose?

    (It’s not conspiracy.)

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  81. After all the other unpleasant hubbub, I missed this one…

    Biden has been flying Venezuelan refugees around the country on secret flights in the dead of night since inauguration and it didn’t elicit a fart from you

    I didn’t fart about it because I never heard or read about Venezuelan refugees in secret middle-of-the-night cross-country flights. By all means, enlighten me.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  82. Paul,

    Youre anti Trump, anti Mafa, anti Desantis now. You know its a binary choice yet time after youre mr democrat talking points.

    EPWJ (650a62)

  83. Bottom line, just because I’m favorably inclined toward DeSantis, don’t make him a sacred cow.

    So, unless one makes a candidate a sacred cow, one is anti- that candidate? That is simplistic thinking.

    norcal (da5491)

  84. Dustin @64 and @65
    Excellent posts

    Chris (3d25b0)

  85. @64

    DeSantis can’t send them outside of the USA, afaik. The Democrats’ position is that they are asylum seekers, when they are plainly economic migrants. Nevertheless, they can’t be deported by state officials. These states have advertised themselves as sanctuary cities for illegal immigrants, so that’s where they are sent.

    @65

    Lots of Never-Trump people appear to have changed their views on abortion post-Dobbs. Maybe, after years or even decades of holding one position, they just suddenly changed their views on the complicated ethical issues involved. Or, perhaps more likely, they changed their party, and then changed their policy views (as most people do, see the excellent Democracy for Realists). To emphasize, it is perfectly reasonable to have an internal movement/party debate about legal regulation of abortion. But it’s strange to suddenly take the Democratic position (no regulation) unless you have in fact switched parties, and changed your views to accommodate the new party identity.

    mikeybates (dd20f5)

  86. Youre anti Trump, anti Mafa, anti Desantis now.

    I don’t know what you mean by “anti Mafa”, but you’re lying that I’m “anti Desantis”.
    I literally stated in this very thread that I would vote for DeSantis over Trump in the primaries and DeSantis over Biden in the general.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  87. It’s one more comment than you or JF have come up with of Paul defending Biden’s border policy. Unless you have such comments to show us, that one is enough to demonstrate JF falsely accused Paul of lying. Why not take the L like a man?
    lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/15/2022 @ 11:09 pm

    more people lying

    the marker I clearly laid down:

    show a comment where you called him out on the issue, and I’ll gladly apologize
    otherwise, one of us is lying
    JF (45fe6b) — 9/15/2022 @ 8:49 pm

    the “issue” is the subject of the post, which is flying migrants around the country, and specifically in montagu’s case, flying migrants from leftist dictatorships, which he called out DeSantis for doing.

    read the entire exchange, starting from comment #33

    montagu #66:

    My comment was clear, that I wouldn’t have had an issue with DeSantis’ political stunt if he took the illegals from the state he governs and that they shouldn’t have be victims of socialist/communist paradises a la the island prison of Cuba.

    montagu can’t point to one comment where he called out biden for doing the same thing

    one comment, about immigration policy in general, is laughable

    he’s lying

    you’re lying, lurker

    and norcal is lying

    or, none of you can read

    all entirely expected from each of you

    take the L like a man

    JF (52810a)

  88. montagu can’t point to one comment where he called out biden for doing the same thing

    This is what you said upthread, JF.

    …”you’ve had over a year to call out Biden for doing the same thing and you’ve not said a peep”

    You were shown that I called Biden out.
    Retract your lie and apologize.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  89. Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/16/2022 @ 6:54 am

    “for doing the same thing”

    the comment you were responding to:

    Biden has been flying Venezuelan refugees around the country on secret flights in the dead of night since inauguration and it didn’t elicit a fart from you
    JF (45fe6b) — 9/15/2022 @ 7:35 pm

    Retract your lie and apologize, montagu

    JF (52810a)

  90. JF, what did I say after you made the claim about Biden secretly flying Venezuelans around in the wee hours? Let’s revisit.

    I didn’t fart about it because I never heard or read about Venezuelan refugees in secret middle-of-the-night cross-country flights. By all means, enlighten me.

    So far, I have not been enlightened.
    Retract your lie and apologize.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  91. Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/16/2022 @ 7:08 am

    yeah, you did that piece of housekeeping eight comments after you falsely called me a liar

    retract and apologize

    JF (52810a)

  92. There was nothing false, JF. You lied.
    Tell me this, how does one comment on an event that one has never heard of?

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  93. Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/16/2022 @ 7:24 am

    Montagu, the thread speaks for itself, and that’s enough for me

    anyone who reads through it knows who’s lying

    JF (52810a)

  94. You’re right, JF, the thread does speak for itself, including your trying to tell us that down is up.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  95. No Trump supporter has the right to even utter the word “conservative”, let alone judge whether another person is or is not one.

    nk (db847c)

  96. Youre anti Trump, anti Mafa, anti Desantis now.

    I am anti-Trump, anti-Mafia, and anti-DeSantis, and it’s interesting that you lump the three together.

    nk (db847c)

  97. What DeSantis should have done is flown people from Florida’s retirement communities, so the old folks could see the turning of the leaves, not something that happens in Florida I imagine.

    nk (db847c)

  98. Martha’s Vineyard update…

    MARTHA’S VINEYARD, MA — Residents of upscale Martha’s Vineyard are in a panic after several buses dropped off illegal immigrants from Florida this week. One terrified resident reportedly called the authorities after seeing Hispanic males outside her home, not even operating a leaf blower or any other kind of gardening equipment.

    “Hello, is this 911? Yes, there are brown-looking Latinx people outside my 20,000-square-foot seaside home, and they aren’t even carrying leaf blowers,” said a terrified Mavis McWhite to the dispatcher. “They aren’t even holding so much as a rake.”

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  99. Noted Never-Trumper Max Boot told us recently that Provincetown, MA (rather than, say, Ohio) represents the “real America”- perhaps that’s where the next group should be sent.

    mikeybates (dd20f5)

  100. “From all accounts, the residents of Martha’s Vineyard have risen to the occasion…”

    ummm….

    Martha’s Vineyard migrants are moved from billionaire enclave to Cape Cod military base by 125 National Guard after outcry from liberal residents who declared a humanitarian emergency

    Illegal immigrants who were flown in unannounced to Martha’s Vineyard on Wednesday are now being moved to a military base in Cape Cod.

    The 50 migrants have been put on buses by Gov. Charlie Baker to travel the 32 miles to Joint Base in Cape Cod (JBCC) just 48 hours after they landed in the billionaire’s enclave.

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis flew in the immigrants from Venezuela on Wednesday, sparking a widespread cry of outrage from the liberal leaders of the small island in Massachusetts.

    It was declared a humanitarian emergency, with the island leaders responding in the same way as a hurricane.

    Lisa Belcastro, a homelessness director in the area said on Thursday that the island cannot support the migrants – where the median home price is nearly $1m- because it is facing a shortage of affordable housing.

    The median house in Martha’s Vineyard is worth almost $800,000, according to the census, and the median household income is $77,370 – well above the national average of $67,521.

    She told reporters that at ‘some point they have to move somewhere else’, because the island is suffering from a ‘housing crisis’.

    JF (b260ff)

  101. Lori Lightfoot, that’s the Mayor of Chicago, settled the first two shipments from Abbott in the near suburban semi-transient hotel strips. This prompted the usual pffters to quip that she welcomed them to Chicago and then shipped them to the suburbs.

    I heard that Pritzker, that’s the Governor of Illinois, did call out the National Guard for the latest batch.

    nk (db847c)

  102. https://nypost.com/2021/11/06/desantis-office-claims-border-officials-secretly-sent-70-planes-of-migrants-to-florida/

    The US has sent over 70 flights of migrants from the Mexican border to Jacksonville, Florida since the summer — but the Biden administration has not disclosed any information about the clandestine transports, Gov. Ron DeSantis’ office claimed.

    The alleged flights — which landed in overnight hours — come as officials struggle to deal with overcrowding at border facilities, according to The Washington Examiner.

    “Over 70 air charter flights [on] jetliner airliners coming from the southwest border have landed at Jacksonville International Airport,” Larry Keefe, the Republican governor’s public safety czar, told the outlet.

    “On average, there’s 36 passengers on each of these flights. And that has been going on over the course of the summer through September.”

    Just a reminder what our totalitarian government does with the cover of darkness.

    NJRob (556156) — 9/15/2022 @ 5:02 pm

    Claims and allegations.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  103. If you want a different slant on the story than JF is offering (and far fewer annoying pop-ups)

    https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2022/09/16/buses-roll-out-migrants-head-ferry-and-joint-base-cape-cod

    The difference between this FU flight and how immigrants get handles by the Fed is that the local community of non-prfits and social workers gets notified before the arrival so that the migrants are actually put someplace, rather than simply dumped on the community. I get what the Texas gvernor has been doing and think that, as political performance art, it is good and makes a point and does not really ruin the lives of the migrants. This stunt by DiSantis was meant to be a game of one up-manship, was arguably cruel, and didn’t even involve people who came to Florida. Very Trumpy, that.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  104. @103

    They didn’t originally go to Florida, but they were sent to Florida by the federal government. The Democrats are committed to a policy of non-enforcement of immigration law, they can deal with the fallout.

    mikeybates (dd20f5)

  105. @102

    Are the Democrats/media even denying that the flights occurred? This isn’t some secret, there are videos of it happening, the immigrants themselves are saying it happened, etc., etc.

    mikeybates (dd20f5)

  106. On the Trumpist scale, DeSantis gets a solid 900 millitrumps for sending Venezuelan refugees/illegals to Martha’s Vineyard, an epicenter of limousine liberalism and progressive “thought”. As far as political stunts go, well played by the Florida Man in the governor’s office.

    DeSantis could’ve scored 1,000 millitrumps, or One Full Trump, if he’d outsourced only the parents from Texas and left the kids behind in the Lone Star state.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  107. #103

    Honest question — do you have a link about the part of the flight from Texas to Florida being the US Government’s doing? Google didn’t find anything.

    Appalled (053e62)

  108. Paul,

    Im sorry i was rude to you lately

    Eric

    EPWJ (e415c4)

  109. Per CBS News.

    The Florida Legislature appropriated $12 million to transport “illegal immigrants” from the state consistent with federal law, Fenske said.

    The planes took off from Texas, then made a stop in the Florida panhandle, before making their way to the island.

    I’m assuming DeSantis didn’t blow the whole $12 million on travel expenses for 48 Venezuelans.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  110. I appreciate that, Eric. No hard feelings.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  111. Claims and allegations.
    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/16/2022 @ 8:59 am

    Rip, here’s a much better source, a left wing dishonest fact check from politifart, so you’ll swallow this whole before giving it any thought:

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/16/tyler-kistner/claims-biden-secretly-flying-immigrants-us-cities-/

    they actually confirm that they’re happening, and you’ll find this:
    The charter flights are not publicized and sometimes are done in the middle of the night to protect the confidentiality of those being transported and to guard against anyone who would interfere with the flights.

    and officials in destination states aren’t notified, which is fine, but DeSantis didn’t notify MV ahead of time so that’s bad

    in typical politifart tradition, it’s ruled “mostly false”, not cuz it’s mostly false but because:

    Kistner said Biden “has been secretly flying illegal immigrants into communities across the country in the middle of the night.”

    The ad implies that it is a new phenomenon for the federal government to transport immigrants around the country. That’s not true.

    JF (a612af)

  112. The base that the migrants have been taken to was used as an emergency shelter for Louisianans who fled the state after Hurricane Katrina. It was also set up as a field hospital for COVID-19 patients in 2020.

    Dana (1225fc)

  113. “Google didn’t find anything.”

    Shocking!

    Colonel Haiku (a5ad4a)

  114. One day a homeless vagrant, the next day a jetsetter, rubbing elbows with the super-rich of Martha’s Vineyard. America! What a country!

    I’ll tell you, comrades, say what you like, this may possibly not be the best way to discourage immigration.

    nk (ae6843)

  115. JF @111-

    Maybe Project Veritas provide video of one these planes transferring illegal aliens, or provide flight tracker data.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  116. DeSantis could’ve scored 1,000 millitrumps, or One Full Trump, if he’d outsourced only the parents from Texas and left the kids behind in the Lone Star state.
    Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/16/2022 @ 9:26 am

    news flash: there are thousands of unaccompanied children crossing the border every month, and many end up dead

    JF (159f18)

  117. #113

    I asked mikeybates for a link showing where he got a statement from. This is after I took some trouble to try to find it myself. Evidently, this irks you. I am not saying the commenter got anything wrong. I’m just interested in his source, because nobody seems to be reporting it.

    Appalled (ada37c)

  118. 117… there’s a lot that gets disappeared by Google. Try duck duck go, perhaps it’s there.

    The nighttime flights have been going on for several months, no secret there.

    Colonel Haiku (a5ad4a)

  119. Here’s the part of the Politifact link that JF left out.

    Experts said the vast majority of people trying to cross the southern border into the United States are summarily turned back. Exceptions are made for unaccompanied minors, some of whom are transported by planes to be with relatives or approved sponsors — a practice also done during the Trump administration.

    Who again are on these flights? Children, some of whom may be Venezuelans, but I’m guessing mostly other nationalities because, from the west border of the Bolivarian socialist paradise to Brownsville, TX, it’s 2,500 miles as the crow flies.

    Those encountered at the border who have been allowed to remain are, by and large, unaccompanied minors. They typically are taken first to facilities near the border and then transferred to the temporary custody of the U.S. Health and Human Services department, which eventually places the children with family or sponsors in the U.S. If family members or approved sponsors are not able to arrange transportation, the federal government pays for transportation, including flights.

    This is all done in accordance with the 1997 Flores Settlement.

    As Kessler noted, adults refugees/illegals being transported are going from one detention facility to another (to maintain a minimum 75% bed capacity) or are being flown to a border city for deportation, all handled by ICE. The department that handles kids is HHS.

    To recap, the “secret” flights that are “sometimes done in the middle of the night” aren’t dumping grounds onto unsuspecting states, these are children being sent to family members or US sponsors.

    What else to take from this?
    One, if Biden is to be criticized for this program, then Trump should be as well. After all, this practice was done under both administrations.

    Two, there were probably more of these flights under Biden than Trump because the number refugees/illegals has skyrocketed under Biden, and it’s testament to Biden’s incompetence in his handling this influx.
    Three, this story is a nothingburger, but it’s been painted in alarmist ways by political partisans to evoke emotions from an increasingly emotional Republican base, IMO.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  120. Martha’s Vineyard local calls on Obamas to open their $12M home to migrants

    A longtime Martha’s Vineyard resident says she supports Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’ move to relocate migrants to the vacation island as a way of highlighting the border crisis — and says the Obamas should open their $12 million home to the newcomers.

    Jane Chittick, a former town official-turned-crime novelist, has lived in Martha’s Vineyard for 42 years but now spends part of the year in Florida.

    Speaking to The Post on Friday, Chittick said: “I don’t think people like the Obamas with huge estates who live here in the summer will care (about the migrants).

    “They have all these signs: ‘Private Property,’ ‘No Trespassing,’ ‘Do Not Come,’ ‘Police Are Patrolling.’ They’re not going to be on the streets in town or the church where a lot of the migrants were put last night.”

    JF (638eb8)

  121. Rip,

    You love unnamed sources on your nonstop links. Mine have names attached. Funny for you to complain about allegations.

    NJRob (239b2e)

  122. Rip,

    You love unnamed sources on your nonstop links. Mine have names attached. Funny for you to complain about allegations.

    NJRob (239b2e) — 9/16/2022 @ 11:05 am

    The article itself used the word “alleged.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  123. One, if Biden is to be criticized for this program, then Trump should be as well. After all, this practice was done under both administrations.
    Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/16/2022 @ 11:04 am

    that it’s required by judicial decree is a defense only if you’re carrying out the policy reluctantly and not cheerleading it and leveraging it for political gain

    Biden scrapped Trump’s effective Remain in Mexico policy which, in addition to shoring up thr border wall (which Biden has also scrapped) and Title 42 (which he has tried to scrap), means many more illegal crossings and more migrants who get the benefit of a ridiculous policy that the American people would scrap if they could vote on it

    migrants have figured out how this all works long ago, even if you’re just now figuring it out, and it’s no surprise the resulting abuse of unaccompanied children is a “nothingburger” to you

    JF (638eb8)

  124. “Martha’s Vineyard just kicked the 50 illegal immigrants off their island. Gonna have to update their virtue
    signaling sign.”

    —- Clay Travis

    https://notthebee.com/article/marthas-vineyard-has-already-begun-the-deportation-process-according-to-cbs-reporter-but-don

    Colonel Haiku (a5ad4a)

  125. https://www.newser.com/story/325538/one-question-on-this-weeks-migrant-moves-whos-perla.html

    …. Questions: One thing Democrats are looking into is whether migrants were deceived before they boarded their planes and buses. The Times reports that several of the migrants sent by DeSantis were “approached by a woman named ‘Perla’ who offered them seats on planes to Massachusetts but did not say they would be landing on a remote island.” Some reportedly thought they were headed to Boston. These migrants, mostly from Venezuela, were approached soon after being cleared by Border Patrol authorities in Texas. It’s not clear how many, or if any, of the DeSantis group were ever in Florida at all. The Miami Herald has more on that.

    Questions, II: California Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, wants the Justice Department to investigate exactly what the migrants were told. “Transporting families, including children, across state lines under false pretenses is morally reprehensible, but it may also be illegal,” Newsom wrote in a letter to Attorney General Merrick Garland, per the AP. He even floated the possibility of kidnapping and “civil rights conspiracy” charges.

    I think it would be hard to argue it was kidnapping, but maybe there could be some element of fraud, except that they were not charged money. In any case, it’s better not to turn everything into a criminal case.

    From the right: A post at the Federalist characterizes the Democratic response as “Left-Wingers Melt Down Over Diversity” in its headline. Writer Tristan Justice takes note of criticism of the Martha’s Vineyard move in particular from MSNBC exec Jesse Rodriguez. “If Rodriguez thinks 50 migrants landing in a community where the median home sale price is north of $1.3 million (is bad), perhaps the network executive might benefit from a trip to the southern border where about 140 times that number of immigrants flood Texas cities daily,” writes Justice.

    A counter: At New York, Jonathan Chait writes that the quick and compassionate response of Martha’s Vineyard locals to the arrivals is a direct refutation of what DeSantis supporters predicted would happen. But “conservative media simply responded as if rich liberals had acted in the way (DeSantis) anticipated.”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  126. that it’s required by judicial decree is a defense only if you’re carrying out the policy reluctantly and not cheerleading it and leveraging it for political gain

    Who’s doing the cheerleading, JF, and who’s doing the leveraging? In the links in this thread, the people who are trying to make political hay out of these flights are partisan Republicans.

    If you’re saying that, through Biden’s incompetence and wrong approach and general weakness as a leader, that he’s contributing to the influx of foreigners going across our southern border, then we’re in full agreement.
    Like I said last February (and I don’t put expiration dates on my comments), Biden’s incompetence at the southern border fits in the “Biden failed” column.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  127. #104 & #118

    I gave duck duck go a try. Still coming up empty, though I do see stories about other flights to Florida containing undocumented immigrants.

    So — if the bunch sent to Martha’s Vinyard was sent by the US to FL, and then DiSantis somehow sent them onward — how did all that work?

    Appalled (a7f8bb)

  128. I’m curious to hear from posters here- what is the answer to the border crisis? Should the policy of no-enforcement-of-immigration-law be continued, or not?

    When you get down to it, the Democrats and the Never-Trump people take an open-borders position. So be it, just make sure that voters understand that.

    mikeybates (dd20f5)

  129. Buses have already swooped in and taken the “migrants” off Martha’s Vineyard.

    DN (57bbe0)

  130. and officials in destination states aren’t notified,

    Officials aren’t notified, on the grounds it is none of their business, and maybe that it might leak, and peole will cause trouble, but the places they are going to are. They’re not dumped.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  131. EPWJ (650a62) — 9/15/2022 @ 2:38 pm

    so everyone should share in the cheap labor largess

    They can’t legally do that.

    They haven’t been issued the necessary documents (needed because of Simpson-Mazzoli)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  132. Who’s doing the cheerleading, JF, and who’s doing the leveraging? In the links in this thread, the people who are trying to make political hay out of these flights are partisan Republicans.
    Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/16/2022 @ 11:56 am

    which flights, montagu?

    the flights demented joe has been doing for more than a year, and you feigned ignorance of, or the flights to MV which got your panties in a wad?

    JF (a53486)

  133. Jpe Biden is again being hit from the left and from the right in the same in the New York Post article:

    https://nypost.com/2022/09/15/with-marthas-vineyard-meltdown-maybe-dems-finally-get-immigration-problems

    ,,,,Up until now, our lawmakers have been able to lie and pretend that the border crisis either doesn’t exist or does exist but is a good thing. Depending on which Democrat you speak to the border either is secure but shouldn’t be, or isn’t secure and that’s just great….

    ,,,,After all, if the borders are secure why is the administration trying to do deals with other countries to return migrants who apparently don’t exist? If millions of people are not coming into the US why has President Biden just been caught arranging a migrant resettlement deal with Haiti?

    The deal that emerged this week is not pretty. Biden’s own former special envoy to Haiti, Daniel Foote, revealed that the Biden administration scuttled Haiti’s plans for free elections and backed the country’s dictator in order to get the country to agree to accept deportees. If Haitians are not flooding across the US border why did the US government have to do such a grotty deal to return these illegal immigrants?

    The same question comes from other news The Post reported this week. That the White House has been secretly urging Mexico to take in more illegal migrants under the Title 42 health policy. Why does the White House have to do a subterranean deal with Mexico if migrants aren’t flooding in from there? Why pile up lie upon lie?

    The answer is because for the time being, they can. Because until very recently the border crisis is something which was most affecting the southern states. Biden, Harris and the rest of this administration thought that so long as the crisis was just a crisis for Texas and Arizona then it was a crisis they could turn their eyes away from……

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  134. 128. mikeybates (dd20f5) — 9/16/2022 @ 12:33 pm

    Should the policy of no-enforcement-of-immigration-law be continued, or not?

    There is no policy of “no enforcement”

    It’s a compromise.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  135. @80 laws broken? Human trafficking laws. Misuse of florida state funds both felonies. Their are many both state and federal terrorism laws that could apply.

    asset (58f160)

  136. @128 they are not immigrants ;but asylum seekers.

    asset (58f160)

  137. mikey,
    I definitely don’t have all the answers, but there are short-term and long-term prescriptions.

    1. Enforce the laws currently in place, and apply the resources toward that end.
    2. Build detention facilities. Lots of them.
    3. If detainees are released pending resolution to their cases, they have to wear ankle monitors (damage to or loss of monitors means automatic deportation).
    4. If we restore Remain in Mexico (I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other), then we should help Mexico financially while the refugees/illegals are in limbo.
    5. Pass DACA.
    6. Mend and don’t end EB-5. Why not have some high-roller immigrants who can inject their wealth into our economy.
    7. Build walls where there’s a documented need.
    8. Comprehensive immigration reform, which would have to include suitably harsh penalties for crimes by immigrants and for employers hiring refugees/illegals off the books, among other things.
    9. Allow more legal immigration. We can handle it, and we’ve had a rich tradition as a melting pot.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  138. JF (5d42d8) — 9/15/2022 @ 1:00 pm

    migrants aren’t dumb, they know how to game the asylum system and respond to incentives

    Or the smugglersd tell them and they learn on Facebook.

    Thisis inevitable.

    So what’s your alternative?

    1) No asylum?

    2) Or other methods of immigrating legally, so that the asylum system won’t be gamed, at least not as much.

    The marriage exception is also gamed. It’s one of the easier things to game.

    So should marriages between U.S. citizens and foreigners be prohibited?

    they send their children unaccompanied cuz they know the border patrol will take them in and send them to sponsors, free of charge

    the responsibility for the ongoing abuse belongs to this lawless administration and its defenders

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  139. they send their children unaccompanied cuz they know the border patrol will take them in and send them to sponsors, free of charge

    yes they do.

    There are hardship exceptions t deportation if they have U.S> citizen spouses but not for children.

    because then many could have children just for this purpose.

    Immigration enforcement , if pursued, destroys every other human value.

    the responsibility for the ongoing abuse belongs to this lawless administration

    No it doesn’t.

    As a matter of fact it was caused by undoing some of Trump’s lawlessness.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  140. Border crisis laid bare: Eerie night vision footage shows more than 500 people marching into Texas over one night – while 2,500 miles away liberal Martha’s Vineyard melted down over just 50 migrants

    The jaw-dropping thermal imaging video showed sprawling lines of people queuing in Mexico before slowly making their way into Eagle Pass overnight.

    The three huge groups were spotted marching over rough terrain while being herded by what appeared to be a lesser number of guides.

    The footage is the latest damning indictment against the Biden administration’s failed attempts to crack down on the number of migrant crossings – which is believed to have been around two million so far this year.

    It also makes a mockery of Vice President Harris, who earlier this week claimed in a TV interview the border was ‘secure’ and tried to blame Donald Trump’s administration for the crisis.

    It comes as the White House is reportedly locked in a furious battle with Homeland Security over the crossings, with tempers said to be flaring in both camps.

    Meanwhile Illegal migrants who were flown in unannounced to Martha’s Vineyard in Massachusetts on Wednesday were being moved to a military base in Cape Cod following an outcry from Democrats and locals.

    JF (a53486)

  141. This isn’t about you or what you want. The democrat party is not interested in the opinions of people who didn’t vote for joe biden unless like me they voted green party ;but democrat down ballot. Why should they care what you think? The argument is between the democrat establishment and the left. You are irrelevant to their discussion.

    asset (58f160)

  142. Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/16/2022 @ 1:10 pm

    1. Enforce the laws currently in place, and apply the resources toward that end.

    This won’t happen.

    2. Build detention facilities. Lots of them.

    This won’t happen.

    3. If detainees are released pending resolution to their cases, they have to wear ankle monitors (damage to or loss of monitors means automatic deportation).

    You’d develop quite an industry.

    4. If we restore Remain in Mexico (I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other), then we should help Mexico financially while the refugees/illegals are in limbo.

    Mexico is a dangerous lace particularly for people with U.S. connections. You’d also have lots of opportunity for corrupt people to siphon off the money And it would be simpler to let people work.

    Pass DACA. T his won’t happen. And DACA s too limited. It does not affect people who entered the U.S. later, and many have aged up to pass 15.

    The problem is that restrictionists want to use DACA as a lever to force (mostly) Democrats to enact laws they don’t support, including new limitations on family reunification..

    Any law that takes away any opportunity to immigrate to the U.S. that current law allows is a non-starter. Not to mention that no one wants to enforce a law they don’t agree with.

    6. Mend and don’t end EB-5. Why not have some high-roller immigrants who can inject their wealth into our economy.

    Some people oppose that as as selling the right.

    Even simpler, if you want, undercut the cartels. Things have been made difficult enough so that everyone has to pay $3,000 if they cross by land. Why not charge $3,000 to people from the western hemisphere and deposit it into the Social Security system with them getting credit for the work,

    $ L0,000 for the World Island. That would stop this whole thing pretty quickly. You could also add, if you want, a law to allow anyone who can buy insurance against dependency to come in if they get it. You could also need to allow one person with a college degree to take in one person who had not.

    One important point: No law will pass that reduces the chances of anyone to immigrate legally (or illegally) to the United States. Only laws that increase it.

    Meanwhile conditions keep getting added. The vetting has become impossible. Congress authorized special immigrant visas for people who worked with the U.S> military in Afghanistan. But they kept and indeed added precautions. They couldn’t get processed. Being vouched for by numerous ex-service people was not enough.

    7. Build walls where there’s a documented need.

    That’s what they did. They’ve raised the rice of illegally crossing the southern border to $3,000 per person and enriched the cartels, unfortunately not using that to get them out of the drug and murder business. They are afraid of being involved with terrorists, though because that they didn’t know is not regarded as a defense.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  143. 8. Comprehensive immigration reform,

    Any “reform” that starts off by agreeing on a number will not pass.

    which would have to include suitably harsh penalties for crimes by immigrants

    That’s not equal justice.

    and for employers hiring refugees/illegals off the books, among other things.

    This would destroy many small businesses, and punish families caring for their elderly and children And greatly raise costs and enrich institutions.

    9. Allow more legal immigration. We can handle it, and we’ve had a rich tradition as a melting pot.

    The problem is that that is what the Republican Party opposes most. It doesn’t matter who they are.

    All immigration is regarded as harmful.

    There’e even a lobby that out that in its name:

    https://www.numbersusa.com

    I think you could make a similar case for births.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  144. Appalled (a7f8bb) — 9/16/2022 @ 12:25 pm

    — if the bunch sent to Martha’s Vineyard was sent by the US to FL, and then DiSantis somehow sent them onward — how did all that work?

    DeSantis couldn’t find volunteers in Florida. There is an established Venezualan community in South Florida.

    He got them from Texas. Florida just paid for this transportation for people who were not in Florida if he even took them there as their first stop.

    That seems to be the case.

    https://apnews.com/article/florida-immigration-ron-desantis-charlie-baker-massachusetts-7e97720aceae5d70f137ece06851f3fc

    The Venezuelan migrants who were flown to the wealthy Massachusetts island from San Antonio on Wednesday by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said they were told they were going to Boston. …

    ….In San Antonio, a Latina woman approached migrants at a city-run shelter and put them up at a nearby La Quinta Inn, where she visited daily with food and gift cards, Henriquez said. She promised jobs and three months of housing in Washington, New York, Philadelphia and Boston.

    The woman, who introduced herself to migrants as Perla, promised jobs, housing and support for their immigration cases, said Oren Sellstrom of Lawyers for Civil Rights, which offered free consultations.

    He picked people from countries with many people coming now but few before, so they would be dumped on the homeless shelters.

    They lied to the press or had people lie for him.

    https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/09/15/venezuelan-american-groups-decry-florida-gov-desantis-decision-to-send-migrants-to-massachusetts

    “If you have folks that are inclined to think Florida is a good place, our message to them is: we are not a sanctuary state,” he said. “It’s better to be able to go to a sanctuary jurisdiction. And yes, we will help facilitate that transport for you to be able to go to greener pastures.”

    Of course, these people were not people who were subject to deportation.

    Sanctuary refers to people who are subject to deportation

    The whole thing is aimed at ignorant people. Even major newspapers got confused.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  145. 1. Enforce the laws currently in place, and apply the resources toward that end.

    This won’t happen.

    There’s the problem- democratically enacted laws being nullified. Appeals to “the rule of law” are not to be taken seriously when made by anyone who tolerates this.

    Republicans must continue to send the illegal immigrants to “sanctuary” jurisdictions. Not only is it good policy, it keeps the political focus on the utter lawlessness at the border. Harris didn’t say “yes, its an open border, thats what we want”- she said the border was secure. They fear the issue- so wield it.

    mikeybates (a184c0)

  146. NJRob (556156) — 9/15/2022 @ 5:03 pm

    Sammy,

    Illegal aliens have no right to be here. What part do you not comprehend?

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed….

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  147. #145

    You’ve got the crux of the immigration problem in a nutshell. Frankly, once we get away from the Trump era a bit, a GOP House should think about impeaching the President over failure to faithfully execute the laws, and then make the trial about immigration.

    Some mind concentration needs to happen on this issue because faithful execution of the laws is a joke here. This would get the press to focus on it and force a senate leadership to attend to it.

    And, my solution? I like a more open border myself. I also believe that the laws we pass should really be enforced and its time to figure out what we are truly willing to enforce.

    Appalled (0bb60b)

  148. So the entire populations of several large countries are entitled to come here as asylum seekers. Again, make sure voters understand that this is the Democratic position.

    mikeybates (a184c0)

  149. mikeybates (a184c0) — 9/16/2022 @ 2:05 pm

    There’s the problem- democratically enacted laws being nullified. Appeals to “the rule of law” are not to be taken seriously when made by anyone who tolerates this.

    Whos’s appealing to the “rule of law”

    They talk about the constitution but not the rule of law.

    The people who talk about the “Rule of Law” tend to champion the Second amendment on grounds of a right of rebellion, or the Boston Tea Party (which was not an exemplification of the rule of law.

    They don;t like the IRS either. Nor are they champing at the bit to have marijuana laws enforced.

    But tis is the one law they want to see enforced. Because enforcing the law can’t be defended on its merits.

    Republicans must continue to send the illegal immigrants to “sanctuary” jurisdictions.

    The people being sent by Republican governors to sanctuary destinations are not illegal immigrants.

    They have been processed and conditionally admitted. They are in the United States legally for now.

    Not only is it good policy, it keeps the political focus on the utter lawlessness at the border. Harris didn’t say “yes, its an open border, that’s what we want”- she said the border was secure.

    It is more or less.

    Secure is not the same thing as impermeable.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  150. 118. mikeybates (a184c0) — 9/16/2022 @ 2:16 pm

    So the entire populations of several large countries are entitled to come here as asylum seekers.

    Quite true.

    Of course they have to make their way here first, sometimes overcoming great danger.

    Again, make sure voters understand that this is the Democratic position.

    No, the Democratic position is keep this out of the news.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  151. Appalled (0bb60b) — 9/16/2022 @ 2:13 pm

    I also believe that the laws we pass should really be enforced

    Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    You do that and you’ll easily be sending people back to their deaths even.

    and its time to figure out what we are truly willing to enforce.

    No, figure out what methods we are willing to use to enforce them.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  152. Sammy,

    Illegal aliens have no right to be here. What part do you not comprehend? Trying again.

    Just because you desire an open world with free movement of peoples doesn’t mean anyone can go where they want. We have laws for a reason.

    NJRob (71d785)

  153. @80 laws broken? Human trafficking laws. Misuse of florida state funds both felonies. Their are many both state and federal terrorism laws that could apply.

    asset (58f160) — 9/16/2022 @ 1:07 pm

    Popehat explains why it’s unlikely DeSantis committed any crimes.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  154. you’re lying, lurker

    and norcal is lying

    or, none of you can read

    all entirely expected from each of you

    take the L like a man

    JF (52810a) — 9/16/2022 @ 6:42 am

    No, JF, you’re the one who’s lying, can’t read, or conveniently doesn’t remember. Let’s take a look.

    My supposed lie is that I said you falsely accused Paul of lying about his opposition to Biden’s immigration policies. You’d have us believe you were referring only to narrow criticism of Biden for having done the same thing with migrant flights that DeSantis is doing now.* I’d argue a reasonable person wouldn’t have read it that narrowly, but it isn’t necessary. As it happens, even you didn’t read it that narrowly. Here’s where you accused Paul of lying for saying he criticized Biden over illegal immigration generally, not just over migrant flights:

    No, JF, you made the claim. My longstanding view has been that Biden has been way too soft on border enforcement.

    Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/15/2022 @ 8:55 pm

    You’re lying.

    JF (45fe6b) — 9/15/2022 @ 9:01 pm

    I’d say you owe some apologies, but I doubt I can hold my breath that long.

    (*Even in a world where you hadn’t impeached your own assertion that you intended your accusation narrowly, unless Biden lied to migrants to trick them into flying to jurisdictions governed by his political opponents I’d dispute your premise that what Biden did and what DeSantis is doing are the same thing. But alas you did, so it’s academic.)

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  155. The Martha’s Vineyard migrants are now at a military base in Cape Cod. Gov Baker arranged it and Mass plans helping them oin other ways.

    Military bases is where South Vietnamese were temporarily housed in 1975.

    Sammy Finkelman (19edaf)

  156. lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/16/2022 @ 3:18 pm

    if comment 71, which you reference, was the only comment in the string, you’d be 100% correct

    but, alas, it’s not

    it’s more like the eighth comment in the series, so the only thing you’ve shown to anyone still reading this thread is just to what extent you’ll take your intellectual dishonesty and general ridiculousness to avoid taking an L

    JF (20a733)

  157. I’m sure the man responsible, the man IN CHARGE – our Altered Statesman – will get it all sorted out.

    Colonel Haiku (cb07e9)

  158. JF (20a733) — 9/16/2022 @ 4:26 pm

    The honorable thing to do is to say, “Paul, I acknowledge that you have criticized Biden’s immigration policy, and I apologize for implying that you hadn’t, even though you didn’t exactly refute the point I was trying to make, and here is why.”

    A bridge too far?

    norcal (da5491)

  159. norcal (da5491) — 9/16/2022 @ 4:39 pm

    stuff it, norcal

    i have done the “honorable thing” more than once here, in fact I apologized to lurker months ago for something I can’t recall now

    when it’s warranted, I set things right

    how about you?

    JF (20a733)

  160. JF (20a733) — 9/16/2022 @ 4:26 pm

    You can either insist on the hyper-literal reading or you can accept the spirit of what’s said in its full context. Either one exonerates Paul of lying. What you can’t do and expect to be taken seriously is read literally when it suits you and loosey-goosey contextual when it doesn’t. Shocker, that’s the one you’re doing.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  161. You might want to dial it down a few notches, JF.

    There is more to life than perpetually aggrieved counterpunching.

    norcal (da5491)

  162. lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/16/2022 @ 5:08 pm

    you’re projecting, cuz that’s exactly what you did in this thread

    it’s all contextual with Montagu claiming he called out Biden on the issue (i.e., the issue captured in the title of the very post you’re commenting in) with one flaccid comment on immigration policy in the most general terms dredged from seven months ago

    but, then there’s your @154 where all context is out the window

    make up your mind

    actually, just continue what you do here — jump into threads to only call out conservatives, cuz you’re fed up with tribalism or something

    JF (638eb8)

  163. norcal (da5491) — 9/16/2022 @ 5:16 pm

    thanks for answering my question, norcal

    one day, you might surprise me

    JF (fe482b)

  164. Telling someone to “stuff it” is not the way to elicit an answer.

    norcal (da5491)

  165. Military bases is where South Vietnamese were temporarily housed in 1975.

    They didn’t break into the United States illegally.

    And if you recall, SENATOR JOE BIDEN OPPOSED taking any Vietnamese into the U.S.:

    Joe Biden opposed helping refugees from South Vietnam get U.S. asylum

    Joseph R. Biden, who has denounced President Trump’s efforts against Central American asylum-seekers, vigorously opposed resettling as refugees South Vietnamese who had helped the U.S. during the war. – https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jul/4/joe-biden-opposed-helping-refugees-from-south-viet/

    He’s a BUM.

    DCSCA (e7fe0d)

  166. Your problem, JF, is that you accused me of (1) criticizing DeSantis while not not calling out Biden for these secret dead-of-night flights (as if there was something wrong or scandalous about them), which I’d never even heard about before today and (2) that these actions were the “same thing” as DeSantis’ PR stunt.

    Both parts of those accusations are ridiculous, wrong and dishonest.
    For one, how can I even call out a president for doing something when I’d never known about it in the first place?

    For another, once I was made aware of these “secret” flights and looked into them, I learned that there was nothing wrong about them at all. They weren’t political acts or PR stunts. Both the Biden and Trump administrations were obligated under law (the 1997 Flores Settlement) to connect migrant children to family members or sponsors. So, even had I known about it, what was there to call out? Exactly nothing.

    For another, the “secret” flights of children under law are in no way the “same thing” as DeSantis’ voluntary use of government resources to transport migrant detainees from Texas (with a short stop in Florida to make it all legal) to Martha’s Vineyard, for obviously political reasons.

    What you did, JF, was try to impugn my integrity, saying “you’ve had over a year to call out Biden for doing the same thing and you’ve not said a peep”, which is an accusation that turned out to be a wrong and dishonest load of crap. You really should apologize, JF, for that and for being a jackass, and not just to me, but to the Patterico community for suffering through your bullsh-t.

    The real issue here is Biden’s failure to handle the massive influx of refugees/illegals crossing our border, which is a thing I’ve mentioned here and in Disqus comment threads. In the graph at this link, just for unaccompanied minors, there were 33,239 border encounters in 2020, which then skyrocketed to 146,925 in 2021 and 128,845 in the first 10 months of 2022. That massive jump is on the Biden administration as it’s under his watch.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  167. If Biden’s redeye flights were a shameful thing, I praise him for doing it in the dead of night. That is the time for murky deeds.

    There is nothing to praise about what DeSantis did, and it compounds his shame to crow about it in the light of day.

    nk (f48089)

  168. Paul Montagu (753b42) — 9/16/2022 @ 5:44 pm

    the Flores settlement doesn’t require secret flights in the night, so that the usual suspects can feign ignorance in blog threads about what’s been going on

    and if Flores didn’t exist, Democrats would invent it, so to use it as “see what Flores makes us do” is plainly ridiculous

    you took a specific accusation about a specific issue captured in the title of the post you’re commenting in right now, and shifted it into something it clearly wasn’t so you could lamely point to one comment of yours from seven(!) months ago to say “aha!”

    and, just as you tried to do upthread with EPWJ, your efforts to slyly remind the blog owners that I can be moderated and banned is what I’d expect

    it’s not my blog, they can do what they want, and maybe you will get your wish

    JF (638eb8)

  169. actually, just continue what you do here — jump into threads to only call out conservatives, cuz you’re fed up with tribalism or something

    JF (638eb8) — 9/16/2022 @ 5:30 pm

    I call you out because not only are you tribal, but you’re belligerently so. Your every comment oozes personal animosity. You’re like the guy who dumps his trash on his front lawn. You’re crapping up the neighborhood, and as one of your neighbors I’d rather you not.

    There are countless leftists as belligerently tribal as you are, but despite what you may think, at least for the time being they don’t happen to be here. If and when they show up again I’ll be happy to call them out too.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  170. lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/16/2022 @ 6:40 pm

    the subject of the post is

    “Gov. DeSantis Defends Decision To Fly Migrants to Martha’s Vineyard”

    maybe you have a take on it, who knows

    JF (fe482b)

  171. secret flights in the night

    I really don’t know why you’re having kittens about that, JF.
    You still haven’t made any case that transporting children in that manner is somehow wrong or scurrilous or scandalous, and your answering with a fictional hypothetical doesn’t advance your argument one bit.

    you took a specific accusation about a specific issue captured in the title of the post you’re commenting in right now

    I literally cut-and-pasted your comment and answered it directly by breaking it down, JF, and now you’re sputtering.
    As for EPWJ, we’re good. He has a lot more integrity than you.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  172. There is nothing to praise about what DeSantis did, and it compounds his shame to crow about it in the light of day.

    Pfft. A sunshine patriot?? Where’s your spirit, nk:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH69jVy_9_E&t=11s

    What DeSantis did was just Yankee Doodle Dandy!

    “Exemplary. Keep it up.” – Arthur Jensen [Ned Beatty] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (e7fe0d)

  173. the subject of the post is

    “Gov. DeSantis Defends Decision To Fly Migrants to Martha’s Vineyard”

    maybe you have a take on it, who knows

    JF (fe482b) — 9/16/2022 @ 6:57 pm

    Lol. So you were able to extract a lie out of Paul’s nowhere was he dishonest series of comments, yet you couldn’t find my opinion of DeSantis’ migrant flights in this comment directed at you in which I all but said, “here’s what I think of DeSantis’ migrant flights?” That’s some impressively selective reading comprehension.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  174. lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/16/2022 @ 9:25 pm

    glad I was able to motivate you to say something tangential about the issue, as a footnote several comments in

    JF (3f1f5f)

  175. Keep moving those goalposts. The exercise will do you good.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  176. I wonder if there was more to the Mark Meadows subpoena than enabling Trump’s Big Lie and insurrection.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  177. Jf,

    They are gaslighting you. Don’t play.

    The midnight flights were discussed here many times previously with linked video showing it wasn’t kids, but men being transported. Thry are trying to distract and everyone who has read this site for a while knows it.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  178. The midnight flights were in fact discussed here. Repeatedly. By some persons.

    In other places, Washington D.C. pizzerias with pedophiles in their basements were discussed. Repeatedly. By some persons.

    In still other places, California wildfires that were started by the Rothschilds’ weather-changing space lasers were discussed. Repeatedly. By some persons.

    That the paranoid mutterings of crazy old cat ladies were discussed only means that people have time to waste on crazy old cat ladies and paranoid mutterings. Nothing more.

    nk (e63968)

  179. Nk,

    But the web monkeys….

    EPWJ (c4529a)

  180. You don’t suppose the Kaiser was on one of those midnight flights, EPWJ? He’s out to steal my string, you know. And then, what will my cats play with?

    nk (c4c896)

  181. Today Ann Coulter tweeted:

    “Being bum-rushed off Martha’s Vineyard is of course giving those migrants a pretty good course in liberal hypocrisy. But let’s complete the lesson by giving them a peek at Chappaquiddick on the way out.”

    DN (57bbe0)

  182. nk (e63968) — 9/17/2022 @ 6:14 am

    🤣😁

    You are way too talented for this size of forum, nk.

    norcal (da5491)

  183. DN (57bbe0) — 9/17/2022 @ 3:09 pm

    Good one. She is the female nk!

    norcal (da5491)

  184. @182. ROFLMAOPIP where’s YOUR Spirt of America, NIMBY norcal?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzfHwx-g6G4

    DCSCA (ceeda5)

  185. How about that… despite huge numbers of empty bedrooms and beds, massive wealth, and signs everywhere that “ALL are welcome here,” the illegal aliens were put on a bus a day later and taken to a military base off the island.

    One would think a “sanctuary city” like Martha’s Vineyard would have the desire and resources to house these folks. One would be wrong.

    Colonel Haiku (3c93fc)

  186. “He’s out to steal my string, you know. And then, what will my cats play with?”

    The possibilities boggle the mind. Coupled with tendencies, biblical prohibitions may come into play.

    Colonel Haiku (3c93fc)

  187. the illegal aliens were put on a bus a day later and taken to a military base off the island.

    And WHO pays for housing, clothing, healthcare and feeding the illegal bums freely? U.S. taxpayers… But of course, Bugs Moran will send over millions dollars worth of Ukrainian aid freely as well to cover costs– and then invite the males between 18 and 60 to join the fight. 😉

    DCSCA (71415f)

  188. How about that… despite huge numbers of empty bedrooms and beds, massive wealth, and signs everywhere that “ALL are welcome here,”

    Well, sure, they’re welcome as long as they’re cleaning the houses or doing the landscaping. Reminds me of the champagne socialists in the Colorado ski towns and Boulder, where the help has to commute from Lake County or Longmont/Lafayette, respectively.

    Factory Working Orphan (bce27d)

  189. Adams ‘welcomes’ 200 El Paso migrants a day from fellow Dem mayor — but slams Abbott buses

    Mayor Eric Adams agreed to “welcome” migrants sent to the Big Apple by El Paso, his Democratic counterpart in that town revealed — despite harshly denouncing Republican Gov. Greg Abbott over a similar relocation program.

    The deal — which sees the city embrace as many as 200 new arrivals a day — also came as Adams repeatedly blamed the ongoing influx of migrants for overwhelming the city’s shelter system, which he said Wednesday was “nearing its breaking point.”

    Officials in El Paso, Texas, began sending migrants to New York City on Aug. 23 while trying to deal with a flood of asylum-seekers that one local pol has said created “a scene that you would see in a third-world country.”

    Leeser said that they discussed El Paso’s relocation program and that he told Adams most of the migrants being sent to New York were from Venezuela.

    “We’re very thankful to Mayor Adams from New York that really stepped up to help us and, you know, he did tell me when I, when I spoke with him that there is not a community there within New York from Venezuela,” Leeser said at an El Paso City Council work session Monday.

    “But he will welcome them into his community and then work with them to get them to a community where there is, there are peers, so they can continue to be there and that’s really important to him.”

    In a response Friday, Adams spokesman Fabien Levy denied that the city had agreed to accept the migrants being sent from El Paso.

    “This is an intentional misreading of Mayor Leeser’s comments,” press secretary Fabien Levy said.

    “As anyone who listens to the recording can hear, that’s not what the El Paso mayor said and Mayor Adams certainly didn’t offer to accept additional buses, let alone ever even intimate that.”

    what a quandary for some here — Which democrat do we give a pass to?

    both!

    JF (fc45df)

  190. Looks like sanctuary cities don’t do a very good job of living up to their word. 😋

    Towering Barbarian (8e1173)

  191. The last few days I’ve heard propaganda over and over again filled with half truths.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  192. Dana @112

    The base that the migrants have been taken to was used as an emergency shelter for Louisianans who fled the state after Hurricane Katrina. It was also set up as a field hospital for COVID-19 patients in 2020.

    That can;t be right. They are still in Massachusetts.

    This is what the Wall Street Journal reported Friday morning:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/transfers-of-migrants-have-democratic-leaders-scrambling-for-solutions/ar-AA11S8EO?li=BBnb7Kz

    The migrants who arrived in Martha’s Vineyard on Wednesday had been housed in recent days at a shelter in San Antonio. The planes left San Antonio around 8 a.m. CDT, according to the flight-tracking site FlightAware.com, and headed for Crestview, Fla. From there, one plane went to Spartanburg, S.C., and the other to Charlotte, N.C. Both planes then flew to the Massachusetts island from the Carolinas.

    So they did touch down in Florida. Governor Ron DeSantis used interest from unspent or later spent Covid-19 funds Florida got, which had very few, if any, restrictions on how they could be used, but I read something somewhere about him having gotten approval from the Florida state legislature. If so, that approval might have been conditioned on them being moved from Florida, so maybe they had to stop in Florida first. On the other hand the planes were probably short range. And they need two of them for 48 passengers.

    A videographer was there to greet the planes when they landed, and the footage was later distributed to several news organizations, said Massachusetts state Sen. Julian Cyr, a Democrat who represents Martha’s Vineyard. He said vans came to Martha’s Vineyard Airport to drive them to a community-service organization. “There was clear coordination,” he said.

    It was a propaganda ploy to make a point that wasn’t true.

    They were from seven family groups.

    Beth Folcarelli, chief executive officer at Martha’s Vineyard Community services, a behavioral-health provider in Oak Bluffs, about 4 miles from the Martha’s Vineyard airport, said at about 3:45 p.m. Wednesday, 48 Spanish-speaking migrants appeared at the front entrance of her organization’s building asking for help.

    The migrants had been dropped off there by bus, she said they told her, and each person arrived holding a red folder containing paperwork with her organization’s address. They had been told she would provide them with work opportunities and housing, she said.

    They couldn’t of course, legally give them jobs, and the whole thing could possibly cause them to miss court dates, as the court they may be scheduled to show up in is in Texas. I don’t know. Nobody is clear on this.

    The migrants said they had been told they were going to Boston, she said. Most of them, she said, had ultimate destinations in mind—including New York and Colorado—where family or friends were awaiting them. They accepted the trip because they were grateful for the help.

    That would mean 2 out of the 7 said Colorado and New York.

    They were shanghaied. Definition 2

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shanghai

    2: to put by trickery into an undesirable position

    Originally people who worked as sailors tricked into going on a ship to China, sometimes by getting them drunk.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  193. Look how many reporters they’ve sent to MV to cover this. If only they had as much interest in the border… what’s really going on.

    Colonel Haiku (76a1de)

  194. I don’t know how the Republicans succeeded in making this go viral. Maybe the charge of hypocrisy. It’s specious, but false charges always have a way of bothering people more than true ones.

    Someone, namely Stephen Miller, the immigration hawk, who always kept on pushing Donald Trump back away from any compromise on the grounds that if he did that he would needed not to alienate his base (similar maybe to if he didn’t do the “right” thing on court appointments) has a grand strategy(his true goal may be to stifle criticism – and he actually wants all countries to limit immigration – the better to make dealing with dictators palatable?) is pushing a grand strategy for the Republican Party.

    The idea is to shut down the government unless the Democrats revise asylum law to make it more limited.

    https://nypost.com/2022/09/19/seize-the-border-gop

    ….But now that national media attention is on the border, Republicans have an opportunity to exploit an issue where they have the most advantage over Democrats electorally, an issue which appalls decent Americans, and which is such a hot potato that the Dem-enabling media have buried it.

    Republicans may not be able to help being outspent 10 to one by the party of Wall Street and Silicon Valley and the mega-rich, but they should be more proactive in using Biden’s failures against his party.

    Here’s the plan

    To the rescue comes Stephen Miller, former Trump adviser and founder of America First Legal, who has fashioned the ultimate razor-sharp strategy for the GOP.

    With seven weeks to the midterms, Republicans can focus the attention of the country on Biden’s border crisis by staging a dramatic showdown in Washington DC over the federal budget.

    The usual process would see Congress pass a stopgap measure known as a continuing resolution, or “CR,” this month to fund the government by maintaining or slightly tweaking spending levels for federal agencies. In December, after the midterms, Miller says the lame-duck Congress would then simply “ram through a full, year-long spending bill locking in every crisis afflicting the country, including the border.”

    Even if Republicans were to win the House and/or Senate, the border crisis could not be resolved for at least a year, during which time an additional four million illegal migrants would cross the border.

    Miller’s plan is for the GOP to refuse to pass the spending bill without an amendment to stop Biden releasing more illegal aliens into the United States.

    Since spending bills are usually passed in the Senate by a backroom deal in which minority leader Mitch McConnell delivers 15 Republican votes to his Democrat counterpart Chuck Schumer, forcing the border amendment would require six of those 15 Republican senators to defy him.

    Miller may want “mainstream Republicans” to lose, He probably won’t get a government shutdown but he will get Democratic spending priorities but perhaps he’s mainly after removal of Mitch McConnel as leader.

    If they did get the border/asylum amendment, the House simply would not pass the continuing resolution. The Dems are simply going to reverse themselves so quickly, especially when distortioos of the truth are part of the argument. The only way to pass a CR will then be to do it with Rep votes.

    You could say that Biden would veto a CR that changed asylum law, but Biden can be pushed around both ways.

    I think most likely Stpphen Miller will not be able to heat up this issue to such an extent so that it prevents a continuing resolution from being passed.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  195. I mentioned already the deal with Haiti to not oppose the new government because they are taking back migrants.

    This is what is going on with Mexico:

    I cite this excerpt:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/bidens-other-mexico-problem-amlo-military-control-national-guard-democracy-judiciary-amendment-pri-senate-fentanyl-cartel-11663524452

    In his first full year in office, AMLO created a new National Guard, put it under military command until March 2024, and dispatched a good part of it to Mexico’s Guatemalan border.

    U.S. law forbids the use of its armed forces in domestic law enforcement. Yet President Trump celebrated AMLO’s expansion of military power. The American president believed migration and drug flows could be contained if only Mexico put more little green men down on the Suchiate River.

    Three and a half years later, an endless stream of poor and huddled masses continues to flow to the U.S. southern border and cartels roam Mexico with impunity. The promise of an effective deployment of the National Guard, under military command, never materialized. Yet AMLO now seeks to extend this “temporary” arrangement until March 2028.

    Maybe the situaton is that the United States is not paying off the right peole in Mexico, or not paying enough.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  196. A claim:

    https://nationalzero.com/2022/09/19/desantis-abbott-completely-ignorant-about-what-a-refugee-is-as-false-information-given-to-asylum-seekers-by-texas-coyote-shows

    As the pamphlet shown above depicts, the asylum seekers were told they would be given “refugee cash assistance,” “refugee employment services,” and various relocation services available to refugees once they reached Massachusetts. These were all false promises primarily because the humans being trafficked by Perla, DeSantis and Republican Texas Governor Greg Abbott are not refugees; they’re asylum seekers.

    And the state o Massachusetts can’t grant them refugee status, although judges there may be more amenable to it.

    Demonstrating how ignorant DeSantis and Abbott are of federal law–and how unsuited they are for federal office–the stunt is coming under fire for its use of human beings as props, but it also plays on general ignorance of the legal status of asylum seekers in the United States that fuels right-wing hatred.

    , No, Abbott and DeSantis know – they have to know – federal law – they are just lying about it, or co-operating is a massive political scheme to lie about it and the truth is not catching up fast with the lie – partly because the Administration doesn’t want to defend its policy, which is not “open borders” but avoiding attention getting criticism from any person.

    Asylum seekers are a specific class of migrants coming to the United States who are individually persecuted or endangered in their home nations and who come to the United States to seek protection from malicious groups–whether criminal gangs or political opponents or a melding of both.

    Or they claim to be. Jeff Sessions wanted to eliminate criminal gangs as a reason for asylum. It’s being litigated. Peole get asylum only if they lives or freedom re in danger for certain specific reasons. Naturally, there are efforts to put round peg s into square holes.

    They have a formal procedure to seek asylum in the US, including turning themselves into to authorities who schedule a hearing for a review of their individual cases. All the people DeSantis cattle-carred to Martha’s Vineyard were asylum seekers who had complied with the law and who are either awaiting an asylum hearing or are waiting to be assigned a date for their hearing.

    And he carried them away from a court maybe.

    .

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  197. New York Times found a person taken by bus to Washington DC who is now all settled:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/18/us/texas-migrants-bus-rides.html

    After Texas Sent Him to Washington, One Migrant Launches a New Life
    Lever Alejos, who was delivered to the nation’s capital courtesy of Gov. Greg Abbott, has found plenty of work. ‘I feel fortunate the governor put me on a bus to Washington.’

    When Lever Alejos of Venezuela arrived at the southern border penniless in July, he gladly accepted a free bus ride to Washington, D.C., courtesy of the state of Texas. He had no family or friends to receive him, and spent one night in the plaza across from Union Station. He soon settled into a homeless shelter.

    “I have nothing,” Mr. Alejos, 29, said on his third day in the city, “but I have the will to work and succeed.”

    Two months later, Mr. Alejos is making between $600 to $700 a week, saving up to buy a used car and planning to move out of the shelter.

    “There is so much opportunity here,” he said on Thursday, at the end of a day’s work. “You just have to take advantage of it.”

    Hooray for trickle down economics!

    ADVE

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  198. “I don’t know how the Republicans succeeded in making this go viral. Maybe the charge of hypocrisy. It’s specious, but false charges always have a way of bothering people more than true ones.”

    So the red states along the southern border taking ALL of these illegal migrants and giving a few large blue cities a taste of “it”… yeah, sheesh, how in the world did THAT go viral?

    /sarc

    A false charge of hypocrisy, Sammy? I think they nailed it.

    Colonel Haiku (76a1de)

  199. How many Democrat voters even knew of the actions of the Biden administration or that there’s a crisis along the southern border before the action or reporting in Martha’s Vineyard? It’s not as if the MSM reports any of this.

    MV showed how Democrats roll: in less than 48 hrs, they called the National Guard to remove them and house them at a military base.

    Colonel Haiku (76a1de)

  200. “There is so much opportunity here…”

    …said the pickpocket on a busy street.

    The illegal bum is here illegally– and has literally stolen an ‘opportunity’ from some honest soul standing in the immigration line and following the rule of law. Either you have immigration law, legitimate national borders and enforce same or you don’t.

    Arrest and deport the bastard.

    DCSCA (d52635)

  201. DeSantis to send plane load of illegals to Delaware. Happy landings! Joey quips- he should come along; they have beautiful beaches. Hmmmm. Soft when you fall of your bike, eh Joey? Florida has a lot more beachfront real estate, Joe– along the Atlantic and the Gulf.

    DCSCA (23025c)

  202. Hmmm. IANAL, so I have no idea how valid this is.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  203. Air DeathSentence666 should’ve landed by now…

    Colonel Haiku (76a1de)

  204. DCSCA (23025c) — 9/20/2022 @ 12:06 pm

    DeSantis to send plane load of illegals to Delaware.

    I thoughht it was aone time thing with him. The planes probably have to stop off in Florida to make his expenditure legal under Florida law.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  205. 194. 197. 198. 200

    Colonel Haiku: A false charge of hypocrisy, Sammy?

    Yes of course.

    Me: “There is so much opportunity here…”

    Colonel Haiku: …said the pickpocket on a busy street.

    That sentence at first confused me because where did I see that Lever Alejos was a pickpocket. Then I realized you were comparing getting a job and earning an honest lving to being a pickpocket. This is the kind of thing restrictionist or enforcement propaganda does.

    The illegal bum is here illegally– and has literally stolen an ‘opportunity’ from some honest soul standing in the immigration line

    No he hasn’t. He came here outside of any quota. Nor is that true from an economic standpoint- or at least no serious economist will claim that..

    and following the rule of law.

    There is no line of course,,formany people, but this is nonsense anyway.

    Either you have immigration law, legitimate national borders and enforce same or you don’t.

    And why is it important that you do? And since when does it have to be all or nothing?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  206. 202. There are lawyers itching to sue. They can be political, too.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  207. 205… nothing false about Democrat hypocrisy, Sammy.

    The rest of what you wrote was not in response to anything I wrote.

    Colonel Haiku (76a1de)

  208. Then I realized you were comparing getting a job and earning an honest lving to being a pickpocket.

    He’s here illegally. ‘Nuff said.

    DCSCA (94a430)

  209. What I find interesting is how the Florida Mob … ahem, I mean the Florida Legislature, is always giving DeSantis whatever he wants. Regarding masks, vaccines, other Covid drugs, Disneyworld, post-Dobbs abortions, etc., and now the money for this stunt. He is a strong capo di tutti capi who has control of his Organization.

    nk (bd6147)

  210. nk (bd6147) — 9/20/2022 @ 7:27 pm

    This tends to happen in states dominated by one party. For example, the California legislature gives Newsom what he wants.

    Even so, I’d much rather live in Florida than California.

    norcal (da5491)

  211. He’s here illegally.

    Not even that is true. There’s a tendency in the propaganda you hear to confound all different kinds of statuses and leave only American citizens and illegal aliens.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  212. Acccording to an article in the Sept 2, 2022 issue of The WWeek (quoting here from Axios) Texas Governr Abbott began in April to put people seeking asylum on uses and sending them to Washington, D.C. In August he began sending buses to New York.

    The Week quotes Nejamin Wermand as writing in the Houston Chronicle that Abbott may be doing the people he’s sending away a (great) favor. Judges in Texas largest immigration courts have denied 83% of asylum cases since last October, while New York City courts have approved 82% (and the average rejection rate, I read elsewhere is about 73%)

    W – while there is a difference mix of cases there’s clearly a large arbitrary element here and the people making the decisions may be gravitating to turning down or accepting a certain fraction of cases regardless of the circumstances or how they may change)..

    It’; clearly greatly arbitrary (like decisions on whether or not to grant parole from prisons which can be affected statistically be whether or not the decision is made before or after lunch) and also may depend significantly upon the lawyers.

    https://www.wired.com/2011/04/judges-mental-fatigue

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

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