Patterico's Pontifications

6/30/2022

Liz Cheney Speaks at the Reagan Library

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Last night Mrs. P and I met JVW, Dana, and Mr. Dana to watch Liz Cheney speak at the Reagan Library, which JVW kindly arranged for us (which is fortunate because it was sold out). It was a delight to meet JVW (for the first time! which is silly given how close we live to one another) and to see Dana and her husband. The speech was worth the long drive to Simi Valley. You can watch it yourself in the comfort of your easy chair:

If, like most people, you don’t have the patience for a 30-minute speech, here is a short excerpt:

I was concerned about the reception that Cheney would receive. Any time you get a mass of people from the right together, they never seem to be Liz Cheney fans. The introductory speaker said there were rumors that the event would be disrupted. But my fears were for naught. The crowd received Rep. Cheney warmly, giving her standing ovations at the beginning and the end of her remarks, and interrupting several other passages with applause, as you can see in the clip above.

In this short life of ours, we speak to each other as though doing the right thing is all that matters, and then when times get tough, most people do the easy thing instead. In War and Peace, Tolstoy describes the various factions in Russia in the early 1800s and their ideas about how the war against Napoleon should be prosecuted. After listing seven factions and describing their various opinions, Tolstoy describes the eighth group, “which in its enormous numbers was to the others as ninety-nine to one, [and] consisted of men who desired … as much advantage and pleasure for themselves as possible.”

That is human nature: to do what brings you the most pleasure and brings you the most advantage, and to make those factors the highest priority.

We talk big, but most of us stop at the talk.

Rep. Cheney walks the walk. Rep. Cheney is a true example of courage — which, like a diamond, is precious because it’s rare. She is certainly sacrificing her political career to take the stand she is taking. But she clearly believes, as I do, that by exposing Donald Trump’s attempts to steal an election that he lost fair and square, she is addressing a threat to our democracy so serious that it requires such a sacrifice.

The speech really is worth your time. Rep. Cheney is a good speaker: funny, grounded in reality, self-deprecating, and inspiring.

We left the speech and, walking to our cars, were confronted by about five Trumpist nutjobs screaming about how they hated Cheney. One guy yelled at me that I should be ashamed of myself and added: “YOU REALIZE YOU ARE IN A MINORITY IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!” I yelled back: “That’s why I’m not in it anymore, buddy!”

For one night, the sane were applauded, and the insane were relegated to tiny numbers standing outside yelling incoherently like street people.

It felt nice. But: reality check here . . . the crazy man yelling at me was right. Liz Cheney is going to lose her primary, because the narcissistic low-IQ clown at Mar-a-Lago is butthurt that Cheney is onto him, and the chumps in the GOP are throwing in their lot with him and not with her.

Liz Cheney can’t control what idiotic voters do. She can only control her own actions, and in that vein she is acquitting herself very well.

A great evening. Thanks to JVW for setting it up, and thanks to Dana and Mr. Dana for setting up our post-speech dinner and for driving such a long way to see it and to visit.

180 Responses to “Liz Cheney Speaks at the Reagan Library”

  1. Liz Cheney says ‘men are running the world and it is really not going that well’ in Reagan Library speech

    “Rep. Liz Cheney in a Wednesday evening speech at the Reagan Presidential Library praised former Trump White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson, who testified this week before the House panel investigating the Capitol riot, as a model for young women and joked that men running the world “is really not going that well.” – source, https://www.businessinsider.com/liz-cheney-men-running-the-world-not-going-that-well-reagan-library-2022-6

    “So?” – Dick Cheney

    DCSCA (808a3b)

  2. “the insane were relegated to tiny numbers standing outside yelling incoherently like street people”

    Hopefully this makes it just below DCCCP’s

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  3. @2. Yet Another New Poll Spells Bad News for Liz Cheney

    Nearly six in 10 Democrats (58%) have a favorable view of Liz Cheney, compared with just 18% of Republicans. Americans overall are split (35% vs. 37%).https://t.co/rdr6OcZmtB pic.twitter.com/24ZTfKrgJp

    — YouGov America (@YouGovAmerica) June 17, 2022

    – source, https://townhall.com/tipsheet/rebeccadowns/2022/06/17/yet-another-new-poll-spells-bad-news-for-liz-cheney-n2608919

    DCSCA (808a3b)

  4. Liz Cheney is going to lose her primary, because the narcissistic low-IQ clown at Mar-a-Lago is butthurt that Cheney is onto him, and the chumps in the GOP are throwing in their lot with him and not with her.

    No. Liz Cheney is going to lose her primary, because as the sole member of the U.S. House for the state of Wyoming, she no longer represents the majority views of the electorate of her state.

    DCSCA (808a3b)

  5. How could she take time away from the carnival court jesting?
    a microtasking hack, she is.

    mg (8cbc69)

  6. If, like most people, you don’t have the patience for a 300-minute speech, here is a short excerpt:

    The speech wasn’t 300-minutes, P. It only seemed like it was 300 minutes. (Kidding! Kidding! It was a tour de force, even though it probably put an end to her political ambitions.)

    JVW (020d31)

  7. ‘Domestic threat:’ Liz Cheney says Republicans must abandon Donald Trump

    WASHINGTON – Liz Cheney urged the Republican Party on Wednesday to rid itself of Donald Trump, calling the former president a clear and present threat to both the GOP and to American democracy at large. “We have to choose, because Republicans cannot both be loyal to Donald Trump and loyal to the Constitution,” Cheney said during an address at the Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California.’- USAToday.com

    ROFLMAOPIP:

    Cheney Voted with Trump More Than His Closest Allies
    November 16, 2021 at 1:16 pm EST By Taegan Goddard

    The Casper Star Tribune‘s report on Wyoming Republicans refusing to recognize Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) as a member of their party also notes that Cheney voted with Donald Trump on policy 93% of the time. “That’s a higher percentage than Rep. Jim Jordan, Rep. Elise Stefanik, Rep. Paul Gosar, Rep. Matt Gaetz and a number of other lawmakers who are seen as staunch Trump allies.”

    https://politicalwire.com/2021/11/16/cheney-voted-with-trump-more-than-his-closest-allies/

    So Daughter Darth was for “Hitler”… before she was against him. “Dick Nixon before he dicks you,” eh dear? This is one neocon Americans will gladly dispatch to the ash heap of history.

    Or CNN.

    DCSCA (808a3b)

  8. @6. It was a tour de force, even though it probably put an end to her political ambitions.

    As an heir to that Halliburton nest egg, she won’t miss a meal. And there’s a CNN gig in the wings if she wants to keep busy.

    =aside= kudos to JVW and crew for making the trip to Simi Valley. My visit to Dick Nixon’s Yorba Linda broom closet some years ago was a less impressive, though viewing the telephone he used to talk to the Apollo 11 crew on the moon was “thrillingly” out-of-this-world. 😉

    DCSCA (808a3b)

  9. Maybe to the Cheney haters it felt like a “300-minute speech”. 😉

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  10. The People of Wyoming know her best and they’ve made their opinions known.

    Colonel Haiku (af87af)

  11. The People of Wyoming know her best and they’ve made their opinions known.

    The fraction of the GOP in Wyoming that licks Trump’s boots is pretty high, I’ll admit. But being lickspittles to a would-be Nero doesn’t mean I care a whit about their “judgement.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  12. Ms. Cheney is a traditional conservative, cut from the Reagan mold.
    To the extent that she loses her primary is the extent the GOP has strayed from the 20th century’s best president, instead aligning with a grifter.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  13. ‘The fraction of the GOP in Wyoming that licks Trump’s boots is pretty high, I’ll admit. But being lickspittles to a would-be Nero doesn’t mean I care a whit about their “judgement.” ‘

    You’re obviously transitioning from Stage 1 Denial to Stage 2 Anger of the Grief protocol. Hang in there.

    Colonel Haiku (af87af)

  14. I wonder if DCSCA will ever come to Jesus on the issue of Trump, or if he’ll just disappear after the sedition conviction and return with a different handle. My betting is on him just continuing in his apologism and denial.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  15. You’re obviously transitioning from Stage 1 Denial to Stage 2 Anger of the Grief protocol. Hang in there.

    It is actually hilarious that you’d project your denial onto others.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  16. Ms. Cheney is a traditional conservative, cut from the Reagan mold.

    This she is, but there was a need for change and the GOP’s refusal to see that resulted in opportunists like Trump.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  17. “YOU REALIZE YOU ARE IN A MINORITY IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!” I yelled back: “That’s why I’m not in it anymore, buddy!”

    You speak for me, as well. Thanks.

    felipe (484255)

  18. JVW (020d31) — 6/30/2022 @ 9:24 am

    Heh! I knew that P was making a dig at today’s ADHD youngsters. I haven’t clicked on her speech because I am enjoying some Benny Bailey, Phil woods with Red Garland, and others, right now.

    felipe (484255)

  19. BREAKING NEWS…

    “Six more women have come forward with allegations that Trump tried to grab their steering wheels.”

    Colonel Haiku (af87af)

  20. Speaking of Reagan if he were alive today he’d be called a Communist with no sense of irony whatsoever by the Right. And he already is called a Nazi by the left I suppose. Liz Cheney is awesome. Both parties seem eager to shed their sanest representatives leaving us with the most crazy and most callow. There’s going to be nobody left to lead.

    JRH (9a8878)

  21. I’m a little nervous when all of team Patterico attends the same event. We need some Designated Survivor protocols.

    The GOP has to decide whether it wants to continue as Trump’s gangster party or whether it’s ready to evolve to something better. Why would Cheney even want to stay in the former? The J6 committee will continue to shrink those willing to vote for Trump in the general. That might make a Trump run in 2024 infeasible, but the heart wants what the heart wants. The true believers may just have to see another loss in 2024 to loosen their grip on the man. Just as new parents need to be patient with potty training, we exiled conservatives need to be patient with this extended loud tantrum.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  22. According to the Washington Post and others, the worried Cheney has begun sending Democratic voters in Wyoming instructions on how they can switch parties to vote for her in the Republican column.

    The mailer reads, “How do I change my party affiliation to register as a Republican so I can vote for Liz?”

    why would a democrat switch parties just to vote for liz?

    of course, liz knows why, and she’s encouraging it

    would these democrats vote for liz in the general?

    she knows that answer, too

    country over party, except when you need to win i suppose

    talk is cheap, even with demented joe’s inflation

    https://www.dailynews.com/2022/06/29/congresswoman-liz-cheney-tells-crowd-at-reagan-library-we-forget-the-price-of-freedom

    JF (3685d8)

  23. Funny times when it takes “courage” to draw the line at sedition, conspiracy, and fraud.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  24. @12. Ms. Cheney is a traditional conservative, cut from the Reagan mold.

    Except she’s not.

    Daughter Darth is cut from the Daddy Darth’s mold a: NEOCON. Hardly ‘traditional Reagan.’ And to make that bogus claim actually dulls the shine on the Oscar Ronnie never won:

    Reagan was no neocon

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/reagan-was-no-neocon

    =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (0d60ba)

  25. @14. “I wonder if Kevin will ever leave Satan on the issue of The Big Dick, or if he’ll just go up in flames, as the tapes should have, after listening to them and return with a different handle.”

    FIFY. 😉

    DCSCA (0d60ba)

  26. @17. Echoes of 1964.

    When men were men and women were damn proud of it– oh, and easy to define. 😉

    DCSCA (0d60ba)

  27. @21. Why would Cheney even want to stay in the former?

    The same reason she voted mitt her Fuehrer 93% of the time:

    Cheney Voted with Trump More Than His Closest Allies 11/16/21

    The Casper Star Tribune‘s report on Wyoming Republicans refusing to recognize Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) as a member of their party also notes that Cheney voted with Donald Trump on policy 93% of the time. “That’s a higher percentage than Rep. Jim Jordan, Rep. Elise Stefanik, Rep. Paul Gosar, Rep. Matt Gaetz and a number of other lawmakers who are seen as staunch Trump allies.”

    https://politicalwire.com/2021/11/16/cheney-voted-with-trump-more-than-his-closest-allies/

    DCSCA (0d60ba)

  28. @16. This she is not.

    FIFY.

    DCSCA (0d60ba)

  29. I was hoping Dana was single.

    Charlie Davis (6775d5)

  30. Warning, warning, warning, DCSCA has been triggered!
    Warning, warning, warning, DCSCA has been triggered!
    Warning, warning, warning, DCSCA has been triggered!

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  31. The speech wasn’t 300-minutes, P. It only seemed like it was 300 minutes. (Kidding! Kidding! It was a tour de force, even though it probably put an end to her political ambitions.)

    LOL, fixed

    Patterico (4e24f9)

  32. Colonel Haiku (af87af) — 6/30/2022 @ 10:40 am

    Heh! That’s funny.

    felipe (484255)

  33. Well, I can spare 30 minutes!

    felipe (484255)

  34. i suggest liz run in california rather than wyoming

    a state who’s conservatives have succeeded in permanently ceding power to democrats

    and yet are convinced the rest of the country is craving their political advice

    yeah, she’d fit right in

    JF (f0220e)

  35. I had to bail on that 30 minute video. But I watched the 2-minute video, and I agree that everything she said Trump could do, he could have done and should have done. The effect of the 1/6 committee has had on me was to totally harden my heart to the committee because of their omissions of anything exculpatory. They would have been better served by “including and refuting”. I will not speak for other Independents, but they’ve lost me.

    felipe (484255)

  36. That is, the committee has lost me.

    felipe (484255)

  37. Funny times when it takes “courage” to draw the line at sedition, conspiracy, and fraud.

    You musta missed the 80s, AJ: Reaganomics; Reaganoptics; Reaganaurics.

    DCSCA (8415cc)

  38. If nothing else, Trump has served as a primer on cults, and how they can cause otherwise sane people to admire and defend a leader who is actually a con man.

    norcal (da5491)

  39. That is, the committee has lost me.

    That’s what happens when you hire a bad television producer who produces bad television with a lousy cast. Daughter Darth is no Sam Ervin.

    DCSCA (8415cc)

  40. @38. Ronald Reagan and the Dangers of a Cult of Personality

    https://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/18/ronald-reagan-and-the-dangers-of-a-cult-of-personality/

    A Lincoln penny for your thoughts; or w/inflation, howzabout that ‘Reagan dime’ 😉

    DCSCA (8415cc)

  41. Felipe, are you saying you don’t believe Trump was attempting to steal the presidency after losing the election? Or that you just don’t like the Job the committee is doing in presenting the evidence?

    Time123 (53bf89)

  42. ….The effect of the 1/6 committee has had on me was to totally harden my heart to the committee because of their omissions of anything exculpatory. …..

    Trump, Pence, Meadows, Eastman, Giuliani, et.al. can always volunteer to testify and defend their actions. I’m sure the committee wouldn’t turn them down.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  43. The January 6th Hearings: Criminal Evidence Tracker Sixth Edition
    …….
    (Tuesday’s) hearing provided further proof that Trump’s final moves in his effort to overturn the election were, like those leading up to January 6, likely criminal. The evidence is detailed in the sixth edition of our criminal evidence tracker.
    ………
    Tuesday’s hearing offered gripping evidence that Trump and some of his closest advisors had the criminal intent to obstruct the counting of the electoral votes on January 6. They knew that violence was highly likely when Trump urged his supporters to march to the Capitol and intended to go with them to pressure Pence and Congress and inflame the mob. The criminality of Trump’s plans was obvious – White House lawyers repeatedly warned about it. And Trump’s closest advisors acknowledged their own criminal exposure by seeking preemptive pardons. The hearing also provided evidence of more potential crimes, including incitement, seditious conspiracy, and witness tampering.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  44. Meanwhile, in the real world- and beyond:

    U.S. President Joe Biden says his administration will soon provide another $800 million in security assistance for Ukraine to fight Russia’s invasion. – USAToday.com (June 30)

    … and Zelinsky smiled.

    “Extortion is my business.”- Ernst Stavros Blofeld [Donald Pleasence] -You Only Live Twice’ 1967

    _____

    Tuesday, July 12; 10:30 a.m. – Release of the first images from the James Webb Space Telescope
    12 p.m. – Media briefing on James Webb Space Telescope’s first images – NASA.gov

    Eyeball to eyeball; see if God blinks.

    DCSCA (8415cc)

  45. 35… you are spot on and eloquent, felipe!

    IMO, NONE of the responsible parties were ever taken to task for the Russia election collusion nonsense and so much other crap. It’s as if they were given a green light by everyone in power in the DC Beltway to EFF the POTUS every which way, and when the ridiculous allegations lost the hot air that lofted them afloat, they’d move on to the next crock of pure, unadulterated bullsh*t.

    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4)

  46. after the sedition conviction

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 6/30/2022 @ 10:16 am

    What’s your guess for the ETA on this?

    frosty (8c9e29)

  47. 42… shouldn’t have to do that, Taylor.

    I look forward to November of this year and then 2024. Put these cheesedicks wandering in political Hell for 40 years or more. And it still wouldn’t enough punishment for the damage they have done.

    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4)

  48. 42… shouldn’t have to do that, Taylor.
    …….
    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4) — 6/30/2022 @ 1:41 pm

    I don’t know how else the committee could include exculpatory evidence unless someone testifies to it.

    Who is this Taylor?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  49. @46. What’s your guess for the ETA on this?

    The Big Dick wasn’t nailed for treason; Trump won’t be nailed for sedition either:

    George Will Confirms Nixon’s Vietnam Treason

    Richard Nixon was a traitor. The new release of extended versions of Nixon’s papers now confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a “conspiracy theory” by Republican conservatives. Now it has been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist George Will. Nixon’s newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968, as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them to refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.

    https://www.vietnamfulldisclosure.org/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason/

    Lori Loughlin and Martha Stewart did more time than Nixon ever did– and Trump ever will.

    “What America needs are leaders to match the greatness of her people.” – The Big Dick, August, 1968

    DCSCA (8415cc)

  50. They’ve no interest, regain your senses.

    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4)

  51. George Will Confirms Nixon’s Vietnam Treason

    Richard Nixon was a traitor. The new release of extended versions of Nixon’s papers now confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a “conspiracy theory” by Republican conservatives. Now it has been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist George Will. Nixon’s newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968, as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them to refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson.

    That’s not treason, but a potential violation of the Logan Act of 1799, under which no one has ever been prosecuted and is likely unconstitutional.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  52. @50. If they were still in power, they’d likely garner better interest; but it is poorly produced television with terrible presentations by mediocre, old school politicians and it’s the past; just not relevant for the now of folks seeing their kids slaughtered in school, near $7/gallon gas; $6.25 lb., burgers for July 4 BBQs; empty shelves, scarce tampons, b billions given away for a war not theirs to fight and so on. When polls show 85% believe the country is on the wrong track, the Trump times of just 18 months ago look pretty good.

    DCSCA (8415cc)

  53. @51. Except it was.

    LBJ: Nixon guilty of treason

    https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/151030

    Take it up w/Will and Lyndon [on tape about it]– two sides of the same coin.

    DCSCA (8415cc)

  54. What’s your guess for the ETA on this?
    frosty (8c9e29) — 6/30/2022 @ 1:38 pm

    it’s like the doomsday clock, where it’s always 100 seconds to midnight

    JF (82e237)

  55. “They would have been better served by “including and refuting”.”

    The committee is like a grand jury, not a perfect analogy, but definitely not a jury trial. Certainly you don’t want to present anything material to the case that you know can be refuted. But the grand jury is the prosecution’s case. Now the question is, is there anything that has been presented thus far…that is material….that is easily refuted? Or has something been purposefully withheld to create a false impression? I would agree that the committee should err more on the side of due process than they are doing, but they’ve bent over backwards explaining that the output of this activity is NOT an indictment (unless there was contempt of Congress). DoJ will need to make that decision. DoJ needs to decide whether the evidence carefully tested will satisfy the required burden. If the committee wants DoJ to seek an indictment, then it’s in their best interest to due their due diligence.

    Now did the committee need to present that Trump tried to physically takeover the limo? Maybe not, though we honestly don’t know what other information that they have and it does build a picture of his state of mind. Is it a “lie” if Hutchinson details a conversation that she had in the White House where the facts that she relays are later refuted? No. This is what he told me is different than this is what I’m saying happened. Even if she remembers a detail incorrectly from the story, that is the nature of eyewitness testimony. It certainly does not contradict that Trump may have been adamant about going and attending the riot at the Capitol, though other witness recollections could easily confirm this. If you threw out all such witnesses, there would be few convictions. It’s simply not realistic.

    I would listen to the opinions of career prosecutors as to how this is going. Across the political spectrum you hear that the evidence is piling up though it may not yet be enough to bring an indictment. So you need to stay tuned. The problem is that people tend to watch political analysts that are more invested in a conclusion. Watch the hearing and consider this a public grand jury. How would you vote about going to indictment? Fingers in ears is non-responsive….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  56. “According to the Washington Post and others, the worried Cheney has begun sending Democratic voters in Wyoming instructions on how they can switch parties to vote for her in the Republican column.”

    Instead of overtures to Wyoming Democrats, it appears Cheney should be making overtures to salads.

    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4)

  57. “it’s like the doomsday clock, where it’s always 100 seconds to midnight”

    Yeah, the walls are always closing in, lol…

    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4)

  58. Both parties seem eager to shed their sanest representatives leaving us with the most crazy and most callow. There’s going to be nobody left to lead.

    No, there will be plenty of people left to lead. Most people, actually. It’s just that those two parties won’t be the ones doing it.

    I say again that there has never been a better opportunity for a new centrist-ish party. If it’s Trump vs AOC, Liz Cheney would make a great Federalist candidate.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  59. “I wonder if Kevin will ever leave Satan on the issue of The Big Dick, or if he’ll just go up in flames, as the tapes should have, after listening to them and return with a different handle.”

    You continue to mischaracterize my statements, but I shouldn’t be surprised as you do that to everyone.

    Dick Nixon had issues. He didn’t mind lying so much, and defended people who should have been left twisting slowly in the wind. But he also laid out the plan for defeating the USSR by isolating, then bankrupting them, and he started that process by prying China out of their orbit to make the isolation real. Domestically his policies were not-so-good, including things like the EPA and wage and price controls.

    Still he was a lot better president than LBJ, Ford, Carter or Obama. Maybe Clinton, although Clinton’s competence may save him in the end.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  60. Daughter Darth is no Sam Ervin.

    I’ve always thought it amazing that the MSM lionized the corrupt old segregationist when he led the charge against Nixon. Pretty sure Ervin was mostly upset at Nixon for stealing his voters.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  61. What’s your guess for the ETA on this?

    That depends. If it’s up to the GOP, ASAP. If it’s up to the Democrats, October 2024.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  62. That’s not treason, but a potential violation of the Logan Act of 1799, under which no one has ever been prosecuted and is likely unconstitutional.

    Indeed. And if enforced, Jimmy Carter would be the first one charged.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  63. LBJ: Nixon guilty of treason

    Which did he do:

    A) Raised an army to attack the United States, or
    B) Adhered to the goals of an enemy

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  64. “I say again that there has never been a better opportunity for a new centrist-ish party. If it’s Trump vs AOC, Liz Cheney would make a great Federalist candidate.”

    The vermin that inhabit public office these days have prioritized preventing Trump from running again.

    I doubt Cheney could be elected to any office.

    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4)

  65. That depends. If it’s up to the GOP, ASAP. If it’s up to the Democrats, October 2024.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 6/30/2022 @ 2:42 pm

    It’s going to be interesting if this committee shuts down with the idea that nothing will happen until 2024.

    frosty (8c9e29)

  66. Well, Colonel, do find asset’s analysis compelling? If not, just know that the Trumpian fringe sounds no better.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  67. It’s going to be interesting if this committee shuts down with the idea that nothing will happen until 2024.

    Plenty of time for innuendo, denouncement and character assassination.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  68. that you just don’t like the Job the committee is doing in [ignoring exculpatory evidence while] presenting the evidence [that furthers their ends]?
    Time123 (53bf89) — 6/30/2022 @ 1:26 pm

    If you include the bracketed words, you would be 100% right.

    felipe (484255)

  69. Dick Nixon had issues.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    Understatement of the 20th century.

    DCSCA (9a9c76)

  70. I’m not sure if Cheney qualifies as a centrist….and being that she has never been a governor or worked in the executive branch, she’s not especially well qualified. Centrists would be more like Kasich and Manchin…Manchin for VP. Moderate DEMs are ok with Kasich…and moderate Repubs are probably ok with Manchin.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  71. 68… lol… forever mischaracterizing for some reason.

    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4)

  72. AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 6/30/2022 @ 2:09 pm

    Yet again, you bring up many good points. I would love for the trial lawyers on this site to give us their take, I’m looking at you Beldar!

    felipe (484255)

  73. “I’m looking at you Beldar”

    You’ll have to go to the Dispatch….that’s where he hangs out now. Maybe DRJ will opine?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  74. 66… I don’t read that rubbish. I avoid all but those longtime commenters that used to make sense and have now gone off the rails, as a virtual rubbing their faces in their droppings surely awaits.

    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4)

  75. 72… many clear-minded attorneys over at Althouse, felipe.

    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4)

  76. Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4) — 6/30/2022 @ 1:36 pm

    Thanks, Colonel. Time123 is a good egg whose comments reflect his good faith. If my impression ever falters, I fault the bad eggs on this site for the noise pollution with which I must contend.

    felipe (484255)

  77. volokh at reason also has a good collection of legal minds, though with a good spattering of trolls and sociopaths in the comments. but you can find informed opinions…..and judge comments there a fair amount. popehat is good too.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  78. Still he [The Big Dick] was a lot better president than LBJ, Ford, Carter or Obama. Maybe Clinton, although Clinton’s competence may save him in the end.

    https://historycollection.com/10-crimes-of-the-nixon-administration/10/

    OFGS. For starters, he WAS a crook.

    Get therapy, Kevin.

    DCSCA (9a9c76)

  79. I’m not sure if Cheney qualifies as a centrist…

    Neocons are not centrists.

    DCSCA (9a9c76)

  80. @51. Except it was.

    LBJ: Nixon guilty of treason

    https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/151030

    Take it up w/Will and Lyndon [on tape about it]– two sides of the same coin.

    No, it was their (incorrect) opinion. I’ve never like Will’s extolling of baseball and Bruce Springsteen, an elitist trying to connect with the common man (though both baseball players and the Bruce are extremely rich).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  81. AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 6/30/2022 @ 3:05 pm
    Colonel Haiku (d4a7e4) — 6/30/2022 @ 3:08 pm

    Thanks! My goal is to somehow, someway, entice Beldar back here. It’s the least I can do for our host. The two of them on good terms would serve us all.

    felipe (484255)

  82. The Lyndon Johnson tapes: Richard Nixon’s ‘treason’

    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21768668

    DCSCA (9a9c76)

  83. If nothing else, Trump has served as a primer on cults, and how they can cause otherwise sane people to admire and defend a leader who is actually a con man.
    norcal (da5491) — 6/30/2022 @ 1:12 pm

    Great comment. I remember many on this site warning us about the cult of personality when Obama was elected POTUS. The primer needs to be repeated every election cycle until the lesson has been driven home. I know that there is a far more persuasive way to state this, but I get fewer and fewer minutes of clear thinking these days, and I’ve run out of minutes.

    felipe (484255)

  84. @80. Except it was. But do enjoy the desperate desperately defending a treasonous crook, antisemite and racist with evidence of same on tape.

    http://nixontapes.org/origin.html

    https://www.lbjlibrary.org/the-lbj-telephone-tapes\

    “Impooch With Honor.” – Emblazoned line on treasured Watergate era pet food bowl, 1974

    DCSCA (9a9c76)

  85. Texas ag ken paxton to devert attention from his legal problems says he is ready to prosecute and end same sex marriage in texas.

    asset (dd5f33)

  86. volokh at reason also has a good collection of legal minds, though with a good spattering of trolls and sociopaths in the comments.

    Until recently I suspected that DCSCA might be Volokh commenter Rev. Arthur Kirkland. The stylistic similarity is strong, but I now reluctantly doubt it.

    but you can find informed opinions…..and judge comments there a fair amount.

    Aaron?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  87. I wish Liz had showed such passion for the truth and the nation when her dad was cooking the intel books to send thousands of American soldiers to their deaths, maim many thousands more, mess up the Middle East more than it already was, and spend trillions in the process.

    Hoi Polloi (ac0b97)

  88. I remember many on this site warning us about the cult of personality when Obama was elected POTUS.

    That’s what disheartens me the most about the rise of Trump. Our side had seen what could happen when you succumb to a cult of personality in observing how nutso the Democrats went from 2008-17, yet we willingly walked into the same snare. At some point we have to decide what we want in a President: Do we want a quiet, unassuming, humble Chief Executive who is going to put his or her head down and do the important work on behalf of the American people, or are we going to go for the Obama/Trump model of the colossal narcissist who thinks the Presidency is all about self-aggrandizement and giving speeches in front of worshipful crowds? I know we probably have to put up with a little bit of the latter with whomever we get, but I sure would love to see a President who tacks more closely to the Coolidge/Eisenhower model.

    JVW (020d31)

  89. I say again that there has never been a better opportunity for a new centrist-ish party.

    I don’t think Congresswoman Cheney would head up a “centrist-ish” party. As pointed out earlier, her voting record is pretty conservative and I think she considers herself a Reaganite small-government conservative. Leave the certrist-ish stuff for a John Kasich or an Andrew Yang. But Congresswoman Cheney would be a good candidate to head up an anti-cult of personality party, with a tagline such as “the Chief Executive is your employee, not your idol.”

    JVW (020d31)

  90. Well, I consider Trump’s “cult of personality” more like Judy Garland’s and less like Mao Tse Tung’s, but this is the media age.

    nk (90f958)

  91. 87
    #metoo

    mg (8cbc69)

  92. “Aaron?”

    Haaaa! Yeah missed an “a”. The judge leans left but I still learned a lot seeing how she approached issues.

    AJ_Liberty (c82e21)

  93. “entice Beldar back here”

    Worthy idea, but I think (ok I know that) his annoying nemesis still persists

    AJ_Liberty (c82e21)

  94. with a tagline such as “the Chief Executive is your employee, not your idol.”
    JVW (020d31) — 6/30/2022 @ 6:14 pm

    Ha!

    felipe (484255)

  95. Thank you for your kind words, felipe.

    As a person who voted for Trump once (in 2016) I am glad to see him clearly now.

    norcal (da5491)

  96. Do we want a quiet, unassuming, humble Chief Executive who is going to put his or her head down and do the important work on behalf of the American people, or are we going to go for the Obama/Trump model of the colossal narcissist who thinks the Presidency is all about self-aggrandizement and giving speeches in front of worshipful crowds?

    You’re kidding, right?

    The Top Cultist of the past 40 years was the ultimate narcissist– an “actor” who reveled in surrounding himself with fellow narcissists– all of whom said, ‘look at me’ for a living:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYeNuISN4Dc

    DCSCA (898b3a)

  97. Leave the certrist-ish stuff for a John Kasich or an Andrew Yang

    I would, but it would be the only Big Tent party. The GOP is filling with the likes of MTG and Boebert. Meanwhile the Democrats are moving into Red Army Faction territory. Both are imposing litmus tests that make Pat Buchanan and Dennis Kucinich look moderate.

    AOC vs Trump would be a choice between Putin and Xi. Maybe they will pull it out, but all I see are two radical parties and 70% of the voters wondering WTF.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  98. I know we probably have to put up with a little bit of the latter with whomever we get, but I sure would love to see a President who tacks more closely to the Coolidge/Eisenhower model.

    JVW (020d31) — 6/30/2022 @ 6:10 pm

    If the person you pick isn’t going to touch the culture war with a ten-foot pole, don’t even bother. That class’s model of throwing up their hands and obsequiously retreating in abject, spine-bending terror whenever the left screeches “racist!” is writing for The Bulwark now and pimping Democrats for office.

    All that matters is, are they going to push the GOP agenda with every bit of energy they have to muster, and defend it with vigor against all the of the insincere, bad-faith arguments of the left?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  99. Until recently I suspected that DCSCA might be Volokh commenter Rev. Arthur Kirkland. The stylistic similarity is strong, but I now reluctantly doubt it.

    They aren’t the same guy. DCSCA may have his catchphrases and hobby-horses, but Kirkland only ever posts one of the same 5-7 statements, and he NEVER deviates from them. He might as well be an ActBlue Twitter bot.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  100. JVW (020d31) — 6/30/2022 @ 6:10 pm

    Eisenhower gave us Earl Warren and Willam Brennan, the John Roberts of their day

    no thanks

    it’s the “sober/sane” republicans who bequeath us the nut jobs

    JF (e8494a)

  101. FWO: Do you believe that the President should strive to be President for all of the people….or do you think he should be like an FNC personality and stir up as much outrage as possible?

    There needs to be some kind of plan that actually leads to legislation that will make people’s lives better. The process involves good will and compromise….to have any hope of bipartisanship and making cloture. We saw a snippet of it with the gun legislation….maybe mostly peripheral stuff, but save a life here and there and they add up.

    Shouldn’t we want a President that acts Presidential, demonstrates character that everyone can acknowledge and respect, understands issues beyond crass sound bites, and communicates clearly, with compassion, humility, and humor — of the self-deprecating sort, not insecurely tearing other people down. We need a leader, not a propagandist looking for a way to enrich himself on the side. Just look back at people in your life that have been effective and well respected leaders….did they burn everything down and make all debate toxic? I kind of doubt it.

    I saw Asa Hutchinson on Erin Burnett the other day talking J6 and about Dobbs….classy, smart, listened carefully, recognized the concerns embedded in the questions, was firm but not obnoxious. There are lots of people like that on the Right (and younger)…..they can debate yet leave a positive impression so persuasion is possible. Then there are others that can’t.

    Leaders win people over to their side….that’s what I’m looking for….

    AJ_Liberty (c82e21)

  102. AJ: Do you believe that the President should strive to be President for all of the people….or do you think he should be like an FNC personality and stir up as much outrage as possible?

    I think any GOP presidential candidate who doesn’t want to fight the culture war is a hack and a coward. Since the left thinks that it’s entitled to its way irrespective of what the right’s opinion on issues are, as the recent mostly peaceful arsons of churches and pregnancy centers show, as well as the entire 2020 Summer of Love, I have no interest–NONE WHATSOEVER–in trying to figure out how to “compromise” with mentally ill freaks like that.

    You constantly pontificate about how the adults should be in charge, but your never-ending prescription is to continually give in to 2.5 generations of overgrown children who have never been told “no” in their lives, and believe they can jawbone you in to doing whatever they want.

    Just look back at people in your life that have been effective and well respected leaders….did they burn everything down and make all debate toxic?

    The people in my life that I respected were the ones who I knew had my back when people came at me. And they often used incredibly salty language in doing so. So no, I don’t give a rip about “making the debate toxic,” especially when that complaint is primarily coming from the people who aren’t on my side and don’t have my back.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  103. AJ_Liberty (c82e21) — 6/30/2022 @ 8:49 pm

    Hear, hear.

    I don’t think we have any other choice if we want to keep our republic.

    norcal (da5491)

  104. “The reality that we face today as Republicans, as we think about the choice in front of us, we have to choose because Republicans cannot both be loyal to Donald Trump and loyal to the constitution.”

    Bottom line?

    This is a woman won’t have my back when people who want to do me harm come at me. I don’t like false choices and I don’t like ultimatums. Liz can ride on her high horse over to the champagne socialist neighbors in Teton County, and park her self-righteous, self-important, elite bum-sniffing self there.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  105. I don’t think we have any other choice if we want to keep our republic.

    norcal (da5491) — 6/30/2022 @ 9:12 pm

    Please. The people in this country who are constantly screeching about “democracy” being in peril don’t even believe in “our republic.” They actually think the Senate is unfair solely because they can’t use it to ram their agenda down everyone’s throat.

    These people don’t need a “leader.” They need what they should have had as a kid, a parent to spank their backside red and throw then in their room without supper when they throw a tantrum.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  106. Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/30/2022 @ 9:29 pm

    Culture wars can be fought without resorting to childish tactics.

    norcal (da5491)

  107. Culture wars can be fought without resorting to childish tactics.

    norcal (da5491) — 6/30/2022 @ 9:49 pm

    If you want to win a culture war, you have to fight, period. It’s not one where Fabian tactics, much less outright apathy, have a remote chance of succeeding, as the previous 40 years elegantly prove.

    If the neocons had actually shown an interest in fighting that war at all, rather than just adhering to the gentlemen’s agreement about what issues the political right was allowed to pursue, the party might not have turned to someone whom you and our host found so distasteful.

    I keep pointing this out, and all I keep getting back is, “Well, it shouldn’t have to be that way.” Think of fighting the culture war like doing maintenance on your house. You have to constantly be vigilant about making sure your house stays in order. You make repairs quickly, keep rooms as orderly, do basic housecleaning, keep the lawn watered and mowed, or xeriscaped and weeded, etc. Neglect to do these things, deem them as “not important,” and the next thing you know, you have termites chewing out your walls, your foundation is cracked, your yard is overgrown, and there are ants and roaches everywhere. It really doesn’t take much for a home to fall in to disrepair. A culture is the same way.

    You don’t like what you consider to be extremist reactions to overbearing leftism? Nip the left’s excesses in the bud and don’t let things get to a point where the reaction that you despise is going to be so dramatic. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  108. Culture wars can be fought without resorting to childish tactics.

    … said Doanld Segretti…

    DCSCA (5acaab)

  109. AOC vs trump 2024? The deep state and corporate establishment of both parties wouldn’t like that match up as they fear AOC more then trump. The democrat party will try to foist some establishment drone like harris, klobuchar or buttegeig. Desantis if trump stumbles as ted cruz has burned to many bridges. By the way texas ag ken paxton says he will start enforcing sodomy laws against gays in texas.

    asset (4bcf87)

  110. By the way texas ag ken paxton says he will start enforcing sodomy laws against gays in texas.

    asset (4bcf87) — 6/30/2022 @ 11:29 pm

    Man, he’s really serious about chasing the Hollywood and Silicon Valley crowds back to California.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  111. Senile old fool biden or maybe crook makes a secret deal with republican senator mitch mcconnell to nominate pro life judge to federal bench who was involved in pardon scandal of former governor. Hunter biden may be in the deal.

    asset (4bcf87)

  112. “Thursday’s debate hosted by Wyoming PBS in Sheridan will be closed to the public”

    LOL – So they’re taking the “public” out of “Public Broadcasting Service.”
    Of course, if you subtract the P from PBS you’re just left with BS.

    mg (8cbc69)

  113. https://www.hagemanforwyoming.com
    lizzy and her rinos should stay in Cantafordya

    mg (8cbc69)

  114. The Rick Wilson bootlickers are in the lets fix this election as well camp.

    mg (8cbc69)

  115. The Rick Wilson bootlickers are in the fix this election as well camp.

    mg (8cbc69)

  116. @103 FWO, it concerns me that your idea of political leadership is someone who “has your back” or enables whatever idea that you may have somehow justified. That sounds more like a “buddy” and not someone who might reason you off of the ledge…and appeal to your better nature. I sense whatever I write will be received as more pontificating, so I’ll instead just reference a couple of articles that I think speak to the outrage trap too many of us are caught in. The problem I see is that once we give up on compromise and good-faith debate, violence is all that is left….and we just start justifying our own escalated violence. That’s not a society I want to leave for the next generation. We need to do better….

    https://fee.org/articles/political-outrage-has-become-our-way-of-life-there-is-a-cure/

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-outrage-industry-affects-politics

    AJ_Liberty (c82e21)

  117. That sounds more like a “buddy” and not someone who might reason you off of the ledge…and appeal to your better nature

    “appealing to your better nature” is just a euphemism for “give in to what these guys want so it doesn’t upset the apple cart.”

    If the left’s stock in trade is going to be that any right-wing victory is sliding towards fascism, then we’re already at a point where resistance to that ideology is a requirement, not a point of debate to uselessly argue.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  118. 43. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/30/2022 @ 1:34 pm

    Tuesday’s hearing offered gripping evidence that Trump and some of his closest advisors had the criminal intent to obstruct the counting of the electoral votes on January 6. They knew that violence was highly likely when Trump urged his supporters to march to the Capitol

    Absolutely not true, and the committee, this time didn’t even try to say so.

    They claimed that he knew violence was likely because he “knew” they were armed (proven by his conversation about letting people get closer to him without having to go through a metal detector. And here they tried to confuse people by reporting what some police – but not Donald Trump saw.)

    And they said that he that he was sending them to the Capitol (ignoring the fact, that the committee must know, that the Capitol was a separately promoted, albeit linked, event and the worst rioters either never went to the Ellipse or left earlier before Trump could urge anyone to go to the next rally.
    and intended to go with them to pressure Pence and Congress

    Yes he did. Yes he did, and it proves that Trump did not expect violence.

    White House |Chief of Staff Mark Meadows did, (Jan 2 conversation with Cassidy Hutchinson) and he lied to Trump about the possibility Trump would be able go there.

    and inflame the mob.

    This last part is total nonsense.

    Te committee actually is describing a Trump nobody has ever heard of or seen. A Trump who commanded his own private militias. Like he was some South American president whom they didn’t know much about. But you cannot say that.

    The best evidence is that Trump wanted a big crowd there to exert political pressure on Republicans – he was going to wildly exaggerate the numbers of the crowd – and then he would go inside and lobby members of Congress personally.

    Lobbying Senators is what Giuliani said on Jan 2 would happen on January 6, and House Republican Kevin McCarthy was thinking back a few days before that Donald Trump wanted to go to his office on January 6 and got Cassidy Hutchinson to deny that, and then later he called on January 6 to ask why did she lie to him?

    Of course she didn’t lie to him because she was relying on what Mark Meadows told her, that Trump was not going to go to the Capitol on January 6. (One person that Meadows didn’t tell that Trump was not going to go to the Capitol was Donald Trump himself!)

    The criminality of Trump’s plans was obvious – White House lawyers repeatedly warned about it.

    I’m wondering about that, because I don’t see it. Making frivolous legal claims is not or shouldn’t be, a crime.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  119. AJ_Liberty (c82e21) — 6/30/2022 @ 8:49 pm

    Leaders win people over to their side….that’s what I’m looking for….

    While this speech (preaching mostly to the converted) may be a start, but I don’t think Liz Cheney is doing so. And to do so, you must really, really, understand matters. It’s actually pretty complicated, although it’s not complicated that the stolen election narrative is false ANS DISHONEST..

    In Wyoming, she shouldn’t hold anything back. It may get Democrats and Independents to vote in the Republican primary and change the minds of some Republicans. She gains nothing by pulling any punches.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  120. @117 The left has given very little room. They’ve made it clear that they get their way or it’s violence. Compromise is just a slower version of the left getting its way. There’s nothing here that makes lives better.

    If you can find a candidate you like that will resist the left I’d be interested is seeing them. So far I’ve only seen compromise at different speeds.

    The active and extreme left is a reaction to class extremes and aristocratic excess, and yes the US has aristocratic excess. The active and extreme right is a reaction to the excesses of the left.

    If you’re solution only deals with the extreme on the right it won’t work. At best you’re missing the point and the alternative is that you aren’t.

    frosty (335e5b)

  121. @117 And it concerns me that you’re more concerned with compromise and avoiding violence above all else. Good faith debate isn’t really a thing anymore. Where it exists at all it is within a group that is largely on the same side.

    The real question is why this needs to be pointed out?

    frosty (335e5b)

  122. FWO,

    What does victory in the culture war look like to you? Is it government leaves me alone, I can protect myself and my children from whatever nonsense Hollywood is spewing out, and I don’t have to listen to HR lectures on Diversity Equity and Inclusion. Or is it that other people have to change our ways in some fashion? (Say, transgender types have to shut up, gay people have to not be married, hispanic people have to go home and not live anywhere near me).

    Politics is downstream from culture, calimed the real Breitbart. Are you trying to reverse the flow?

    Appalled (ad7639)

  123. It took 50 years to correct the Roe mistake. History will use the Trump presidency as, at least, the inflection point, and at best, the fulcrum, needed to correct the disastrous course that the left plotted for this country.

    Consider all the decisions handed down by SCOTUS in just the last week. If only one good thing came out of the Trump Presidency, it would be the change in the SCOTUS.

    The pro-life movement is the example our politicians should emulate. Steely-spined, respectful dialoging. Not unlike Gandhi’s pacifism, they endured their own years of abuse, by calumny. But such injustice is not lost on those who are able to be persuaded. Winning these persuadables was painfully slow; possibly too slow for those who would have their way, “now.” This may be how Trumpo was elected.

    It seems both approaches came together in time. Judge the results for yourselves.

    felipe (484255)

  124. @118 The applecart is already upset. Humpty has already fallen off the wall. We’re just in the middle of the process. Both Humpty and the apples are still falling.

    frosty (335e5b)

  125. frosty (335e5b) — 7/1/2022 @ 6:57 am

    these things tend to correct themselves

    once cheney gets her gig on cnn or msnbc, my guess is that outrage will suddenly morph into a force for good

    JF (e8494a)

  126. Wrong. She belongs on Teh View…

    Colonel Haiku (bd9a44)

  127. Everything always gets simplied down to “the Left” as if there is a single monolith and no gray and no common purpose…at all. It’s framed as an athletic competition where there is only winning or losing. That’s tragic. Your neighbor should not be your existential enemy….and that’s what I get from this rhetoric. Yes, disagree with disbanding the police, reparations, and liberalizing criminal justice…..but recognize that there are problems and recognize the value of dialogue…and blending solutions.

    We are being conditioned by media to live in a bubble and have as much outrage as possible…..BECAUSE THIS MAKES THEM MONEY….not because it’s great for you or great for society. They want you maximally angry ’cause then you tune in and see their advertising. Turn it all off. Stop allowing yourself to be spun up over hyperbole…and the fact that other people think differently. The problem is this existential struggle yields too often to an authoritarian solution, where we give up our constitution for a strong man to enforce his rules. Who wants that?

    AJ_Liberty (c82e21)

  128. So… it is NOT time for us to do what we have been doing. And that time is NOT every day.

    Colonel Haiku (bd9a44)

  129. Enjoy your Friday!

    Colonel Haiku (bd9a44)

  130. @88

    I remember many on this site warning us about the cult of personality when Obama was elected POTUS.

    That’s what disheartens me the most about the rise of Trump. Our side had seen what could happen when you succumb to a cult of personality in observing how nutso the Democrats went from 2008-17, yet we willingly walked into the same snare. At some point we have to decide what we want in a President: Do we want a quiet, unassuming, humble Chief Executive who is going to put his or her head down and do the important work on behalf of the American people, or are we going to go for the Obama/Trump model of the colossal narcissist who thinks the Presidency is all about self-aggrandizement and giving speeches in front of worshipful crowds? I know we probably have to put up with a little bit of the latter with whomever we get, but I sure would love to see a President who tacks more closely to the Coolidge/Eisenhower model.

    JVW (020d31) — 6/30/2022 @ 6:10 pm

    I’ve reiterated this before, but the time to do that is during the Primaries, and even BEFORE that season starts.

    That’s the time to encourage your colleagues to be actively engaged during this phase. Not just to get them out to vote during the primary, but to participate in the process before then, so that the best candidates are offered during the GE.

    Failing to have the funding, infrastructure AND engagement is what you’d get either an establishment pick or another Trump.

    In short, we’re all at fault here.

    whembly (7e0293)

  131. Appalled, I don’t believe in “last battle” conservativism any more than I believe that home maintenance stops when the contractor finishes the renovation.

    AJ, I haven’t watched mainstream news in well over a decade now, so your assertion that this is all about media agitation doesn’t hold water. And no, I’m not going to stop getting “spun up” over people “who think differently” when those same people won’t accord me the same courtesy. Deal with it.

    Factory Working Orphan (e33de3)

  132. What does victory in the culture war look like to you? Is it government leaves me alone, I can protect myself and my children from whatever nonsense Hollywood is spewing out, and I don’t have to listen to HR lectures on Diversity Equity and Inclusion. Or is it that other people have to change our ways in some fashion? (Say, transgender types have to shut up, gay people have to not be married, hispanic people have to go home and not live anywhere near me).

    ROFLMAOPIP. Don’t look now, but you’re arguing for… =drumroll= … freedom of choice.

    =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (d2e9f0)

  133. #132

    Hm…Well, let’s try the question this way — what direction are you driving, really? Is it government that has to change its ways, with respect to what it does to you, or do many of your fellow citizens have to change their ways?

    #133

    The thing about abortion is that unborn children have rights as well. The nature of those rights is something best fought out in the political sphere and locally, and not mandated by the court. The attempt of the court to take it out of politics back in the 70s failed miserably.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  134. “Steely-spined, respectful dialoging.”

    11 murders, 42 bombings, 185 arson attacks, 1534 acts of vandalism.

    http://prochoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2015-NAF-Violence-Disruption-Stats.pdf

    Davethulhu (4335be)

  135. The problem was never Trump. The problem was a ruling class that had become disconnected from the People. Not just politicians (and perhaps not even mainly politicians), but business, labor and investors all forgetting that America and Americans needed to matter to them.

    Corporations found they could make more money overseas, with low labor costs an little in the way of regulation, taxes and environmental concerns.

    Unions driving up costs to a point that chucking their whole membership and moving operations to sweatshops in India or China or Central America seemed like a good idea. Public employee unions, feeling indispensable, negotiated ridiculous and unsustainable pension, medical and vacation regimes.

    Investors, demanding quick quarterly profit gains, drove companies into unsustainable cost crunching, corner-cutting and overseas.

    And the politicians became hostage to all these trends, with even the liberal Democrats being focused on the needs of their donors, most of which were booming investment markets.

    Thirty years of this and America was hollowed out.

    “Populism” isn’t something that happens on its own. It’s the result of “a long train of abuses and usurpations” sufficient to organize the masses against their rulers. And, as usual, the rulers never understand what hit them, or why.

    The problem with populism is that it is a playground for scoundrels, and while you sometimes get a Thomas Jefferson or even an FDR, you usually get a Donald Trump or Huey Long.

    To get out of this hole, we cannot just re-establish the status quo ante, we need a new breed of leaders who can adapt first principles to current needs. It seems more likely though that we get another scoundrel, perhaps less obnoxious, and more time is lost.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  136. I think it’s hilarious that the Culture War is seen as “choice” versus “enforced morality.” Their side is interested AT ALL in “choice.” Both extremes want to legislate a set of mores, and to Hell with anyone who thinks differently.

    Diversity has become Conformity.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  137. * Neither side is interested.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  138. FWO: “I haven’t watched mainstream news in well over a decade now, so your assertion that this is all about media agitation doesn’t hold water.”

    Media also includes Talk Radio, Internet podcasts, Twitter, Facebook/social media, and blogs. It’s not that it’s all crap….but huge swaths of it is. And it’s my experience that the people who are most ideologically hardened tend to collect their information near exclusively from similarly ideological sources. Confirmation bias. The fact that so many people operate from such a vastly different set of facts…steered by ideology…..will make the country ungovernable at some point. Awareness of the J6 committee details is just the most recent example.

    FWO: “And no, I’m not going to stop getting “spun up” over people “who think differently” when those same people won’t accord me the same courtesy.”

    What are you facing that is making you so angry? Who is stopping you from having your ideas and living your life? Free speech is alive and well. If a goofy sociology professor wants to preach goofy things at a school you’re not attending, you are free to blog about it, but is it really negatively impacting your life? Same with weird people in San Francisco having cross-dress story time…or people in Massachusetts “celebrating” gender dysphoria with a parade….or some high school football players kneeling during the anthem. Maybe it doesn’t make sense to us, but why does it have to send me into a tizzy….and why do I have to lump them into a group…the Left….and collectively hate them? And sure it happens on the other side as well…and should be called out there too with its aggressive cancel culture, political correctness, identity politics, and climate religion.

    If you’re unhappy with the politics of your community….move. it seems like you want liberals to go away and you want the President to yell at them for you. It just doesn’t seem that productive….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  139. @134. =yawn= The thing about freedom of choice is it is a freedom. Of choice. Options. B ut lately, a constitutional right rescinded. But rest easy. In time next one will tumble just a little easier. Fascist admirer Ford supposedly quipped, ‘you can have your Model T in any color you want— as long as it’s black.’ You know– freedom of choice. 😉

    DCSCA (d2e9f0)

  140. I also find it hilarious that someone who many people BLOCK, can respond to other posts with a dismissive “yawn.”

    Clearly someone with very little in the way of self-awareness.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  141. @137. Rubbish. And you can’t turn it off on your TV, your radio… avoid a film you despise– avert any museums, read the books you choose. Freedom of choice is a good thing. Rescinding any right to it is not. And any outside observer will tell you America has no real culture anyway- every 20-25 years it more or less reinvents itself with fresh generations. That was once embraced as a strength. Conservatives see it as a threat:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I0poZE5w6E

    DCSCA (d2e9f0)

  142. @141. Pfft. Well, you are easily amused; there’s a Gilligan’s Island marathon on MeTV this summer. You think those poor people will ever get off that island, Kevin? 😉

    DCSCA (d2e9f0)

  143. The Big Dick embraced freedom of choice, Kevin:

    Ampex, Sony, Memorex, Scotch.

    DCSCA (d2e9f0)

  144. Davethulhu (4335be) — 7/1/2022 @ 9:06 am

    Was this during the Summer of “love,” or just this year?

    felipe (484255)

  145. Speaking as a Christian, telling me how many attacks I, and ours, have suffered, is not an persuasive argument to abandon any of our beliefs.

    Compared to our Elder brothers, the Jews, we Christians have it relatively easy.

    felipe (484255)

  146. … we Christians have it relatively easy.

    Ohhhh, Christians have had their ‘lions’ share of suffering. 😉

    DCSCA (d2e9f0)

  147. i think the solution to all our problems is to send mr. donald trump

    the true and lawful pesident

    who won by a landslide

    all our money

    so he can use it to make america great again

    and stick it to the libs

    and have you priced a pair of manolo blahnik six-inch stilettos lately?

    that’s what i think

    nk (33aedd)

  148. DCCCP: “=yawn=”

    You need more sleep

    DCCCP: “=mike-drop=”

    This Mike guy is sure taking a beating

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  149. If you’re unhappy with the politics of your community….move. it seems like you want liberals to go away and you want the President to yell at them for you. It just doesn’t seem that productive….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 7/1/2022 @ 9:21 am

    This has to be the single most dishonest comment I’ve heard from you. Every time this discussion comes up it’s always in this context. Anyone who disagrees with the newest progressive talking point is the one who has to change, shut-up, or move. I didn’t go anywhere and demand they conform to my wishes. San Francisco wasn’t always pit. Its leftist who infest a place, ruin it, and then demand that everyone who doesn’t like it leave.

    No one hates the left. They’ve simply realized that the left hates them and is doing everything possible to get rid of them. Even if it made sense to literally surrender ground to the left there are no places to go that they won’t follow.

    Who is stopping you from having your ideas and living your life?

    What country have you been living in? In a very short period of time we went from don’t oppress _victim group_ to a demand that _victim group_ be affirmed. It’s no longer enough to not be racists or sexists or phobia. All of those things have been redefined to mean not affirming enough.

    Pretending that this is FWO, or anyone else, who is really wanting to impose their views is garbage. It’s the gaslighting that’s become the norm.

    Most people who weren’t leftist nutjobs were willing to allow leftist nutjobs to be nutjobs if it meant we got some peace and quiet. That’s the only reason we got to this place. There really aren’t enough nutjobs to have forced this. We didn’t get the peace and quiet we were promised.

    What are you facing that is making you so angry?

    The ridiculous “u mad bro” snark not withstanding; let’s see.

    I used to believe that, while not unbiased, news outlets weren’t engaging in outright lies and political propaganda. The left did that and I’m not happy about it.

    I used to believe that, while not completely honest, enough politicians weren’t actively working against the interests of the average American that things tended to balance out. The left did that, the Rs helped, and I’m not happy about that.

    I used to think federal agencies, while not perfect, were largely staffed with decent people and that any corruption or incompetence tended to balance out. The left has destroyed most institutions of power from the inside. The left spent years trying to make SCOTUS political, now complains that it’s political because it doesn’t do what they want, and they want to destroy it.

    I can go on but the short version is that I’m not happy that the left is systematically trying to destroy the version of the US that I like and would like to improve and replace it with one that I think is terrible.

    frosty (87efa4)

  150. @149. =yawn= You need more freedoms rescinded, AJ. Rest easy—in time, your future is in good hands:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6lpT6e8nAA

    DCSCA (d2e9f0)

  151. @150. Anyone who disagrees with the newest progressive talking point is the one who has to change, shut-up, or move.

    Hard heads wear hard hats, frosty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Hat_Riot

    DCSCA (d2e9f0)

  152. ‘And the tragedy is that there are politicians in this country – beginning with Donald Trump – who have lied to the American people,’ Cheney said. ‘People have been betrayed.’

    Liz, have you found that WMD yet?

    JF (a163cf)

  153. Huh. I was sent a link to Tucker Carlson where he is in Rio, interviewing Bolsonaro. Do you know the first thing that came to my mind?

    Is Fox grooming Tucker for Sec of State, by giving him some foreign political exposure? Are they inoculating him against —-?

    This might just be nothing more than “The Beverly Hillbillies go to England and meet the Queen.”

    It is evident that I do not watch TV, so the very obvious reason For Tucker’s presence in Rio has escaped me.

    I cannot say that I feel left out.

    felipe (484255)

  154. Huh. I was sent a link to Tucker Carlson where he is in Rio, interviewing Bolsonaro. Do you know the first thing that came to my mind?

    The Producers, of course:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe5eROx4bdw

    DCSCA (d2e9f0)

  155. @138 I predicted this. Dred scott II. Back in the late 1960’s when black people were burning a city a week newark one week detroit the next The power structure kept saying stop rioting. We can’t ignore you when you riot! Affirmitive action came about when the establishment said maybe if we give them jobs in the buildings maybe they wont burn them down. As always please keep things peaceful so we can ignore you. I posted earlier about biden’s secret deal with republican leader mcconnell to put a anti-abortionist on the federal bench in ky. The DNC stooges over at DU are so angry or more like scared wont even post about they are so afraid of comments. The democrat party trying to fund raise off this is getting push back from democrats who tell them you want are money and votes and you wont do anything ‘but whine!

    asset (fde52c)

  156. “This has to be the single most dishonest comment I’ve heard from you.”

    Immediately toss out “liar”….and why I choose not to engage with you

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  157. I saw the speech

    She has along introduction and only starts talking about Trump at 8 1/2 minutes into it.

    Her target audience is other politically active Republicans. not the general public, and not really the people she was speaking to. It’s really fellow politicians.

    She says they – and she really means herself and fellow politicians – cannot be bystanders.

    The most serious thing of the things she mentioned was Donald Trump not wanting to do anything after hearing people shout “Hang Mike Pence.”

    (You know, it doesn’t matter that they had no chance of doing that.)

    While he didn’t endorse hanging Mike Pence, he didn’t call it out either.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  158. It is Roe v Wade that was called Dred Scott

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  159. DCSCA (d2e9f0) — 7/1/2022 @ 1:25 pm

    Ha!

    felipe (484255)

  160. Hm…Well, let’s try the question this way — what direction are you driving, really? Is it government that has to change its ways, with respect to what it does to you, or do many of your fellow citizens have to change their ways?

    Anything that makes the left uncomfortable.

    Media also includes Talk Radio, Internet podcasts, Twitter, Facebook/social media, and blogs. It’s not that it’s all crap….but huge swaths of it is. And it’s my experience that the people who are most ideologically hardened tend to collect their information near exclusively from similarly ideological sources. Confirmation bias. The fact that so many people operate from such a vastly different set of facts…steered by ideology…..will make the country ungovernable at some point. Awareness of the J6 committee details is just the most recent example.

    Media has been ideological for nearly all of its existence. Don’t kid yourself.

    What are you facing that is making you so angry?

    Leftist entitlement.

    Who is stopping you from having your ideas and living your life? Free speech is alive and well.

    Yeah? Think I wouldn’t be punished if I published this stuff under my real name?

    If a goofy sociology professor wants to preach goofy things at a school you’re not attending, you are free to blog about it, but is it really negatively impacting your life?

    That same professor’s “goofy ideology” has now infected every economic and cultural pillar from corporate consumer boardrooms to religious denominations to every form of mass entertainment to my kids’ school curriculums. Their propaganda is everywhere, all demanding for me to conform. Don’t stand there and claim it isn’t affecting my life.

    Same with weird people in San Francisco having cross-dress story time…or people in Massachusetts “celebrating” gender dysphoria with a parade….or some high school football players kneeling during the anthem.

    You mean like the coach who got punished for having after-game prayers and needed the intervention of a heavily conservative Supreme Court to protect his rights?

    Maybe it doesn’t make sense to us, but why does it have to send me into a tizzy….and why do I have to lump them into a group…the Left….and collectively hate them?

    I don’t hate the left. I hate their ideology, but I actually have some respect for them because, as much as they love to lie about everything, they are dead-honest about what they consider most important–their belief that their ideology is the only acceptable one, and everyone else’s has to be marginalized, silenced, and suppressed.

    I do hate people who think the left should be allowed to act out this belief wherever they wish, however.

    If you’re unhappy with the politics of your community….move.

    Why should your lefty boos be the only ones allowed to move to a community, agitate to change its culture, and demand that it conform to their ideology? Why should your lefty boos be the only ones who get to preserve their communities in amber like they see fit? Why don’t you think that conservatives should get the same privilege? I mean, geez, I already knew that “retreat” is your default position anytime conservatives are challenged on anything; I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised you’d take the same tack when it comes to communities, too. Always retreat in the face of the left, never put up resistance, you might scare them! We have to be nice! Get real.

    These are people who have, for most of my adult life, constantly trashed the US as a systemically racist, unegalitarian hellhole. They’ve threatened to move to France or Canada, complaining all the time that the country was in peril, every time they suffered some kind of political or cultural setback–even as they were steadily marching through the institutions and taking them over piece by piece. This didn’t just start a couple months ago–it’s been going on for over 20 years, at least.

    Want to know the main difference between the right and the left? The right will be celebrating the 4th of July this weekend because they love the US, its history, and what it’s traditionally stood for. They’re going to do it irrespective of the fact that a addle-pated chief executive that isn’t on their side is in charge of the country, they have to pay a lot more in gas and groceries this weekend, and every pillar of the cathedral hates their guts and wants them to shut up and comply with an ideology that they despise.

    Your lefty boos, on the other hand, will only be celebrating the 4th of July this weekend because it’s their side that’s in charge right now, and for quite a few, that’s not even good enough to celebrate it, because they just took a bunch of Ls in the political and culture wars these past few weeks, or because the country isn’t the white male-oppressing marxist utopia that they want it to be.

    Why don’t *I* move? Here’s an idea, AJ–how about, instead of *me* leaving *my* community, *your* lefty boos actually follow through with what they always threaten to do whenever they lose, and leave to Canada or France? The country will be immeasurably improved by their absence (indeed, I guarantee not a single one of them, nor their dozens of neuroses, will be missed), and they’ll finally get to live in that socialist society-in-chrysalis-to-marxist-utopia that they’ve always wanted. That acceptable to you? Or is it only the right who has to always back down and “move” in your mind?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  161. @161 I thought aj lib was calling me a liar. And kept wondering what he thinks I posted was a lie.

    asset (4dd68c)

  162. It is Roe v Wade that was called Dred Scott

    Some day everything people don’t like will be called Dred Scott. It’s like fascism, or disco.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  163. Or Taco Bell.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  164. I wonder if Liz was thinking about her father when she was castrating men in her hate filled speech.

    mg (8cbc69)

  165. Dred scott was settled precedent too! Malcolm X statement “By any means necessary!” seems to be a difficult concept for anti-abortionists to understand. Just because a senile old fool in the white house tells the supreme court “Thank you sir may I have another!” Democrat party leaders say all you can do is donate to us and vote for us and don’t you dare support AOC like you did Bernie Sanders over what ever beached corrupt whale we drag on to the beach in 2024. In the primaries that are left the old dead wood in the party are upset that their younger challengers are asking them what are you going to do besides whine? The biden/mcconnell secret deal to put an anti-abortion judge on federal court is the last straw! The base has no interest in protecting hunter biden’s corruption or his old mans.

    asset (4dd68c)

  166. If you don’t say Dred Scott, you ain’t black!

    nk (e4e6b8)

  167. I hope asset does not hear of Buck v. Bell.

    nk (e4e6b8)

  168. Oops!

    nk (e4e6b8)

  169. @161, FWO, I’m glad you responded, but I’m still struggling to see what practically is giving you so much angst and what practically you think the government can do to resolve it.

    My point about “moving” wasn’t an attempt to chase you anywhere, but a simple observation about federalism. Say if you lived in the Boulder area and were sick and tired of anti-police BLM protests, a simple solution is to relocate. Same if the school board is promoting CRT stuff that you personally find offensive. Same if you are uncomfortable with anti-discrimination laws designed to protect gays. One solution is to move to an area that is more conservative and more in line with your values. I reject the notion that no such areas exist (though obviously family responsibilities and employment opportunities limit the principle)….there are Red States….and even conservative enclaves in Blue States.

    Now I’m all for staying and challenging the status quo but this is a democracy and Boulder, for instance, like San Francisco is quite liberal. People do vote in the policies that reflect their values and priorities. So unless you have a magic recipe for importing more conservatives into your area or making hippies less progressive, I’m not sure what you’re advocating. Putting Trump back into office is not going to make Boulder, for example, more conservative.

    Now as we’ve seen with the court rulings this term, this is one area that conservatives saw some practical push back…with probably the most long-term consequential being the regulatory case in my opinion. But if we want to hold these gains, you have to hold the Court and win back the White House and control the Senate. Lose two more national elections and Democrats are likely replacing the aging Thomas and Alito. On a side note, the Court can draw lines, but we still need functional legislatures doing more than what they’ve been doing. And toxic partisanship is contributing to paralysis. Courts shouldn’t legislate.

    I get that you want to complain about liberals and you want to hear your elected leaders also complain….but I’m still not seeing the end result. Did Trump create more conservatives or did he energize even more liberals…losing the House, then the White House, and finally the Senate. An awful Biden and an economic down-turn are the only reasons Congress will likely shift back. The GOP is not exactly brimming with ideas on how to cure inflation and wrap up the Ukraine conflict.

    As for media, I’m all in favor of staying informed, but the tendency these days is for people to get a little paranoid and obsessed with politics being the end-all and be-all of life. There will always be liberals….and moderates and people in between. You paint a dystopian future that I fear is sucking the joy out of your life…with the hope that there is some magical government wand to fix it. Good luck with that. My suggestion is to focus more on enjoying your family, your job, and your hobbies….and stop giving liberals so much control over your happiness….

    AJ_Liberty (c82e21)

  170. @161, FWO, I’m glad you responded, but I’m still struggling to see what practically is giving you so much angst and what practically you think the government can do to resolve it.

    I don’t really care if you’re struggling to see it at this point. You’ve made it quite plain that you don’t view engagement with the left in the culture war as a legitimate thing. Literally every complaint you make about the culture war stems from this paradigm. I’d spend less energy explaining it to a malted milkshake.

    My point about “moving” wasn’t an attempt to chase you anywhere, but a simple observation about federalism.

    You literally asked me why I don’t move if I didn’t like the political environment of the community I lived in. Besides the fact that you never seem to have such strong pushback against leftists in such situations, for someone who’s always in such a high dudgeon about amped-up partisanship, telling people to ensconce themselves in communities where everyone else thinks alike is hardly going to tamp that down. Citing hyper-leftist champagne socialist places like San Francisco and Boulder merely reinforces my point that packing up and moving is hardly a solution to the culture war you think it is.

    I reject the notion that no such areas exist (though obviously family responsibilities and employment opportunities limit the principle)….there are Red States….and even conservative enclaves in Blue States.

    I never made that argument and it’s dishonest of you to imply that. And it also just reinforces my argument against you that I’M not under any obligation to pick up and move my family just to accommodate your lefty boos or to reinforce your perpetual idea that retreat against the left is the only option. You don’t have the credibility to tell ME to leave MY home just because you don’t like that it might cause a hotspot in the culture war. In fact, you telling me to move is a great argument to do the exact opposite.

    People do vote in the policies that reflect their values and priorities. So unless you have a magic recipe for importing more conservatives into your area or making hippies less progressive, I’m not sure what you’re advocating.

    One, where I live is not like San Francisco or Boulder. It’s purple leaning red. Two, the recipe is to push back against liberal policies, hard, and keep pushing back again and again and again and again and again, instead of constantly retreating like you advocate. I realize you’re baffled by the idea that people should ever push back against the left instead of letting an area become more leftist and then just leave, but you’re REALLY going to have to start trying to wrap your mind around it. This is not the neocon-run “be obsequious to the left in the culture war” GOP anymore.

    I get that you want to complain about liberals and you want to hear your elected leaders also complain….but I’m still not seeing the end result.

    I keep telling you, and you keep refusing to even listen or comprehend, but I’ll say it again–there is no “end result” in a culture war. Get that dumb “last battle conservatism” idea out of your mind. There’s constant conflict and debate because whoever controls the culture, ultimately controls how a nation’s sense of identity and political policy are shaped.

    It doesn’t stop. It won’t EVER stop. Get that through your head.

    My suggestion is to focus more on enjoying your family, your job, and your hobbies….and stop giving liberals so much control over your happiness….

    AJ_Liberty (c82e21) — 7/2/2022 @ 5:44 am

    Oh please–pointing out that liberals are a bunch of entitled jerkweeds doesn’t mean that I’m not happy or that I don’t enjoy my family or the things in my life. You just don’t like my aggressive stance towards leftism and think someone who would oppose it that strongly does nothing but think about it all the time, because it makes you REALLY uncomfortable seeing conservatives push back against leftists in the culture war. That’s why you tell US to move, not THEM.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  171. 171… some can never be honest as to where their allegiances lay. I wonder why that is…

    They can certainly do better…

    Colonel Haiku (412d0b)

  172. FWO: “I’d spend less energy explaining it to a malted milkshake”

    Yeah I think we’re done here. Good luck with your war….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  173. Dred scott was settled precedent too!

    Where DO you get your “facts”? Dred Scott was controversial the day it was issued. It said (in the event you don’t know) that slavery was not only legal, but constitutionally mandated, in every state north or south. That Sanford could take his “property” anywhere he wanted and no state could “take” (free) his property away from him. The ruling struck down the Missouri Compromise as an unconstitutional restriction on property rights.

    It went on to suggest that blacks could never be citizens and therefore could not sue. But that was not the real problem. By asserting that all states were slave states Taney and his court thought they were neatly solving the half-slave/half-free issue, as did President Buchanan who encouraged the decision. Instead they poured whale oil onto the fire, and 4 years later there was Civil War.

    The analogous ruling is Roe, not Dobbs.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  174. The analogous ruling is Roe, not Dobbs.

    Roe: “Here we have settled the Abortion issue for all time!”
    Dobbs: “No, you haven’t and clearly you never did! Let’s give this back to the legislatures. It’s something courts cannot settle.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  175. @Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 7/2/2022 @ 8:23 am

    AJ’s questions and arguments challenged your diatribe, but they were respectful and courteous. You responded with animosity. Do you see him as one of your culture war enemies? Roughly what percentage of the country do you consider enemies?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  176. Some day everything people don’t like will be called Dred Scott. It’s like fascism, or disco.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 7/1/2022 @ 11:08 pm

    Or yuppies, and, sorry Colonel, Karen.

    urbanleftbehind (8a2a23)

  177. Liz Cheney said that Trump knew they were angry (I don’t even think they were angry – this is just used to explain what they did — and they were armed.

    But the important point is whether he knew they were disposed to break the law,

    Trump’s attempt to go with them virtually amounts to proof that he did not. To argue otherwise is to make a number of strange assumptions about Donald Trump (and Mark Meadows and possibly others as well) that the Jan 6 committee is either not willing, or doesn’t have the consensus, to make explicit, and that I can’t even quite figure out what they are.

    Sammy Finkelman (b7dc9b)

  178. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 7/2/2022 @ 9:25 am

    Dred Scott was controversial the day it was issued. It said (in the event you don’t know) that slavery was not only legal, but constitutionally mandated, in every state north or south.

    It didn’t do that – it didn’t legalize slavery in every state, but Abraham Lincoln and others argued that could be the next Supreme Court decision. It made the absence of slavery only a provision of state law.

    That Sanford could take his “property” anywhere he wanted and no state could “take” (free) his property away from him.

    Wrong. It didn’t overrule a California decision where a slave successfully sued for his freedom.

    The ruling meant that passing through a free state didn’t make Dred Scott free. Now that was one prong of a Morton’s Fork that abolitionists wanted because it could mean that a state could make anyone a slave — even white persons and slavery did not have to from birth or from arrival in the United States – that the condition of being a slave did not have to be historical.

    Bbt the decision avoided that outcome by saying that people like Dred Scott weren’t citizens and couldn’t sue. So white people need not fear being made slaves.

    Sammy Finkelnan (b7dc9b)

  179. Patrick-
    That is not why she is losing. Her constituents aren’t all nutjobs. Like everyone else, they vote their self interest. As I said a week ago, the SCOTUS vote on the EPA was reason enough for them to pick Trump over Liz.
    Trumps luck of the draw and good for Wyoming appointees carry the day and she cannot overcome that. She really is an inside the beltway type and that puts her as an outsider in Wyoming. Trumps policy of cutting Federal Regulation was enough even before SCOTUS hit all the notes for Wyoming

    steveg (36b137)


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