Patterico's Pontifications

5/27/2022

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 3:01 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Hello and happy weekend. Let’s get started.

First news item

A distressed Trump asked what were they going to do about assault rifles:

One of the most extraordinary moments of Donald J. Trump’s presidency was an hourlong meeting with U.S. senators in the aftermath of the school shooting in Parkland, Fla., in which he forcefully argued for a litany of gun safety measures that the National Rifle Association had long opposed.

Mr. Trump’s support for gun control measures — which he unrolled on live television from the White House on Feb. 28, 2018 — astonished lawmakers from both parties. But the next day, N.R.A. officials met with Mr. Trump without any cameras or reporters in the room, and he immediately backed down.

That apparent surrender to N.R.A. pressure came to sum up Mr. Trump’s record on gun control in the eyes of his critics.

Unbeknownst to the public, however, Mr. Trump again pushed inside the White House for significant new gun-control measures more than a year later, after a pair of gruesome shooting sprees that unfolded over 13 hours. Those discussions have not previously been reported.

At the White House the next day, Mr. Trump was so shaken by the weekend’s violence that he questioned aides about a specific potential solution and made clear he wanted to take action, according to three people present during the conversation.

“What are we going to do about assault rifles?” Mr. Trump asked.

“Not a damn thing,” Mick Mulvaney, his acting chief of staff, replied.

“Why?” Trump demanded.

“Because,” Mr. Mulvaney told him, “you would lose.”

Second news item

A foul stench wafting from the bench:

Last month, I covered a legal motion in the case Planned Parenthood of Michigan v. Attorney General of the State of Michigan, in which Michigan Right to Life and the Michigan Catholic Conference argued that the presiding judge ought to recuse herself due to conflicts of interest.

The judge in question, Elizabeth L. Gleicher, had disclosed that she donates annually to the Planned Parenthood’s Michigan affiliate and that, prior to becoming a judge, had represented Planned Parenthood in a lawsuit. Despite these obvious conflicts of interest, she declined to recuse herself. The pro-life groups calling for her recusal noted that she had also received a Planned Parenthood “advocate award,” which she did not disclose, and that she had represented Planned Parenthood in lawsuits other than the one she informed them about publicly.

Gleicher went on, unsurprisingly, to decide on behalf of Planned Parenthood in this case, ruling against a Michigan pro-life law that is slated to take effect if the Supreme Court were to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Third news item

Could be the much needed game-changer:

On Thursday, Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense tweeted a video of a Russian barrage on defenders’ positions in the Donetsk Oblast. “Ukraine is ready to strike back,” it said. “To do this, we need NATO-style MLRS. Immediately.”

“Russia is now using artillery extensively and ruthlessly,” Oleksandr Merezhko, chair of the Ukrainian parliament’s foreign affairs committee, told Newsweek. “To counter this, to save the lives of our servicemen and civilians, we need MLRS.”

American-made launchers would allow Ukrainians to target more Russian artillery batteries and attackers at longer ranges. The extended range would also threaten Russian logistics hubs and routes, disruption of which will slow the offensive

The U.S. has declined thus far to send the necessary equipment:

Politico, who spoke to an unnamed Biden administration official last week, reported concern in the White House that providing technologically advanced, destructive, and long-range American MLRS and HIMARS will be interpreted as escalation by Moscow.

Meanwhile, Kasparov sees the urgency of the moment, and vents:

Three months into Putin’s genocidal total war on Ukraine, Putin’s Global Rescue Team is assembling again. Heads of state, media, pundits, all the usual suspects eager to preserve a horrific status quo & sacrifice thousands of Ukrainian lives, and call it peace.

Ukraine is bleeding, without the weapons it asked for. Putin is rushing to annex more Ukrainian territory, issuing passports and currency, killing and deporting thousands and bringing in Russians, as he’s been doing for 8 years in occupied Crimea and Donbas.

The profiteers and appeasers, working with or for Putin, like Kissinger, join the false “peacemakers” in France and Italy to send more Ukrainians to the hell of Russian occupation, dozens of Buchas to come. Who are they to tell Ukrainians how to live and die?

Some allies are slow-rolling weapons deliveries, afraid of Ukrainian victory. If Ukraine makes more progress pushing Russia back, Western leaders might lose their coveted “peace for our time” moment and not be able to rush back to Russian gas & oil.

Ukraine needs air cover, while allies point fingers and play hot potato with who needs what permissions to provide jets and other weapons. Do they want the carnage to end, or just cover it up, postpone more, guaranteeing it will be worse next time?

Stop thinking about concessions Ukraine can make. They are paying a terrible price in blood, with decades of rebuilding to come. They are paying for years of weakness and corruption of the European nations that eagerly did business & diplomacy with their invader.

Ukraine needs every weapon they ask for without hesitation. The free world is lucky to have a brave and skilled Ukrainian military on the front line of a war they never wanted, a war the West tried to pretend did not exist. They aren’t a proxy, they are a partner.

Bankrupt Putin & his regime. Give Ukraine what it needs to win. Shame anyone who would rescue Putin from suffering the consequences of his murderous war. Ukraine must choose, and as long as they choose to fight we must fight with them.

Fourth news item

President Biden leaning toward $10,000:

Advocates expressed anger and disappointment on Friday in response to news that the Biden administration is leaning toward forgiving $10,000 in student loans per borrower.

Some Democrats and activists have insisted that President Joe Biden needs to cancel at least $50,000 per borrower to make a meaningful impact on the country’s $1.7 trillion outstanding student loan balance. More than 40 million Americans are in debt for their education, and about 25% of those borrowers are in delinquency or default…While running for president, Biden had vowed immediate debt cancellation of $10,000 per borrower, and he hadn’t said anything about limiting the relief to people who earn under a certain amount. Now the administration is looking at imposing income caps of $150,000 for individuals and $300,000 for married couples for the relief…

Unfortunately for Biden, some of his more popular teammates are none too happy with his number:

Fifth news item

Cheney in the woods – at least for now:

GOP Rep. Liz Cheney is down 30 points in a new survey of her August primary conducted by the Club for Growth, which is opposing the embattled incumbent.

The poll, which provides perhaps the starkest illustration yet of the political peril Cheney faces this year, shows Wyoming attorney Harriet Hageman garnering 56 percent of the vote to Cheney’s 26 percent in the GOP primary. A third Republican got 12 percent support, and just 6 percent are undecided.

The survey accounts for frequent GOP voters, but also new voters and those who identify as Democrats or independents but intend to vote in the GOP primary.

Interestingly, Cheney’s war chest has a hefty $6.8 million compared to Hageman’s $1 million.

From Cheney’s just-released video asking for Wyoming voters to vote for her, she hits the nail on the head:

If our generation does not stand for truth, the rule of law and our Constitution, if we set aside our founding principles for the politics of the moment, the miracle of our constitutional republic will slip away. We must not let that happen.

I’m signing onto this. There’s a long game in play:

I suspect her strategy in this race consists of two steps: (1) Hurt Trump among swing voters ahead of 2024 by framing this primary as a referendum on the rule of law versus authoritarianism, knowing which side Trump and MAGA will enthusiastically take, and (2) run against him for the Republican nomination in 2024 and use the spotlight that provides her to reiterate that case to those swing voters. Cheney’s on a mission now to keep Trump out of the White House, nothing more or less. If she cared about saving her career, she would have laid low after voting for impeachment like eight of the other nine Republicans who joined her did.

Sixth news item

Too bad, so sad:

A federal judge on Friday dismissed former President Trump’s lawsuit against New York Attorney General Letitia James, which he filed in an attempt to stop her office’s civil investigation into the Trump Organization’s business practices.

Why it matters: The dismissal comes just a day after a four-judge panel ruled that Trump and his children, Ivanka Trump and Donald Trump Jr., are obligated to comply with subpoenas issued by James and testify under oath as part of the state’s investigation.

Trump related legal happenings:

As many as 50 witnesses are expected to be subpoenaed by a special grand jury that will begin hearing testimony next week in the criminal investigation into whether former President Donald J. Trump and his allies violated Georgia laws in their efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss in the state.

The process, which is set to begin on Wednesday, is likely to last weeks, bringing dozens of subpoenaed witnesses, both well-known and obscure, into a downtown Atlanta courthouse bustling with extra security because of threats directed at the staff of the Fulton County district attorney, Fani T. Willis.

Ms. Willis, a Democrat, has said in the past that Mr. Trump created a threatening atmosphere with his open criticism of the investigation. At a rally in January, he described the Georgia investigation and others focusing on him as “prosecutorial misconduct at the highest level” that was being conducted by “vicious, horrible people.” Ms. Willis has had staffers on the case outfitted with bulletproof vests.

Willis stressed that this isn’t personal, but she is simply fulfilling her duties:

She added that she was treating Mr. Trump as she would anyone else. “I have a duty to investigate,” she said. “And in my mind, it’s not of much consequence what title they wore.”

Seventh news item

An absolute abomination:

In response to an explosive investigation, top Southern Baptists have released a previously secret list of hundreds of pastors and other church-affiliated personnel accused of sexual abuse.

The 205-page database was made public late Thursday. It includes more than 700 entries from cases that largely span from 2000 to 2019.

Its existence became widely known Sunday when the independent firm, Guidepost Solutions, included it in its bombshell report detailing how the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee mishandled allegations of sex abuse, stonewalled numerous survivors and prioritized protecting the SBC from liability.

The Guidepost report, released after a seven-month investigation, contained several explosive revelations. Among them: D. August Boto, the committee’s former vice president and general counsel, and former SBC spokesman Roger Oldham kept their own private list of abusive ministers. Both retired in 2019. The existence of the list was not widely known within the committee and its staff.

Despite collecting these reports for more than 10 years, there is no indication that (Oldham and Boto) or anyone else, took any action to ensure that the accused ministers were no longer in positions of power at SBC churches,” the report said.

Eighth news item

While China calls the allegations “lies of the century,” sane people know them as horrors of the century:

A new trove of hacked Chinese police photographs and documents shedding light on the human toll of Beijing’s treatment of its Uyghur minority in Xinjiang has been published as the UN high commissioner for human rights, Michelle Bachelet, visits cities in the region.

The data trove – referred to as the Xinjiang police files and published by a consortium of media including the BBC – dates back to 2018 and was passed on by hackers to Dr Adrian Zenz, a US-based scholar and activist, who shared it with international media earlier this year. It includes thousands of photographs of detained people and details a shoot-to-kill policy for people who try to escape.

The ruling Communist party is accused of detaining more than 1 million Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities in the far-western region as part of a years-long crackdown the US and politicians in other western countries have labelled a “genocide”. In addition to mass detentions, researchers and campaigners accuse Chinese authorities of waging a campaign of forced labour, coerced sterilisation and the destruction of Uyghur cultural heritage in Xinjiang.

Ninth news item

Confirming what we have long known:

Almost no Democrats who oppose abortion rights hold seats in Congress any more, and it’s also become a litmus test for some state parties, even in red states.

…Anti-abortion Democrats are nearly extinct, and with the Supreme Court expected to overturn Roe v. Wade, national Democrats will be making abortion rights a centerpiece of their midterm campaigns.

…Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-Texas) — described by his primary challenger, Jessica Cisneros, as “the last anti-choice Dem in the House” — was barely clinging to a lead after Tuesday’s runoff election.
Democrats further down the ballot who oppose abortion rights are being pushed out or walking away.

In New Jersey, the Morristown Democratic Committee voted last year to strip Aaron Oliver of his chairmanship because of his anti-abortion views. “It was awful,” Oliver told Axios. “I didn’t want to resign, but this issue right now with the Democratic Party is an absolute litmus test.”

MISCELLANEOUS

Spring palette cleanser after a rough week of bad news:

Have a restful weekend.

–Dana

816 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  2. A state investigation found no evidence of wrongdoing in connection with the explosive allegations brought by Florida’s former coronavirus data expert, who had accused top state health officials two years ago of firing her for refusing to manipulate COVID-19 data to support the push to reopen Florida after months of quarantine.

    Specific allegations raised by former agency data manager Rebekah Jones — who gained national media attention with her sensational accusations against the DeSantis administration — were either “unsubstantiated,” meaning there was insufficient evidence to prove or disprove, or “unfounded,” concluding the alleged conduct didn’t occur, according to the findings.

    The investigation was conducted by the Florida Department of Health’s Office of Chief Inspector General, Michael J. Bennett, who investigates whistleblower complaints. Bennett reports to Chief Inspector General Melinda Miguel within Gov. Ron DeSantis’ office.

    The OIG report supports the DeSantis’ administration which said there were no attempts to falsify the data the governor relied on to begin reopening the state economy in April 2020 following a brief, statewide COVID-19 lockdown.

    https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2022/05/27/rebekkah-jones-report-fails-support-claims-florida-covid-19-data-doctored/9953780002/

    BuDuh (340919)

  3. Re: Third News Item

    U.S. to Send Advanced Rocket Systems to Kyiv, Officials Say

    The Biden administration is expected to announce as early as next week it will send to Ukraine long-range rocket systems Kyiv says are necessary to fight off the Russian onslaught in the Donbas region, U.S. officials said Friday.

    Among the weapons the U.S. is expected to provide are Multiple Launch Rocket Systems, or MLRS, which are mobile artillery launchers that can fire dozens of miles farther than any current system in Ukraine’s control.

    The U.S. is also expected to give to Ukraine High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, known as Himars. Those are light multiple rocket launchers with a comparable range to the MLRS. But unlike the MLRS, which moves on tracks, the Himars move on a wheeled chassis.

    Both systems would give Ukraine more mobility than M777 howitzers, which the U.S. is still sending to Ukraine. It is unclear how many of the new systems the U.S. would provide, but one official said they could arrive in Ukraine within weeks. The U.S. also has said Ukraine forces would need at least a week of training to use them.
    ……….
    Related:

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  4. Israel refused US request to transfer anti-tank missiles to Ukraine — report

    Israel recently turned down a US request to approve the transfer of its advanced anti-tank Spike missiles from Germany, where they are made under license in an Israeli-owned factory, to Ukraine for use against Russia’s invasion forces, the Axios website reported Wednesday

    Israel was reportedly concerned over the impact such a move would have on its relations with Russia. Specifically, an Israeli official said, Israel is worried “Russian soldiers will be killed by Israeli-made weapons, which could lead to Russia harming Israeli security interests in Syria.”
    ……..
    Since Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24, Israel has rejected requests from Kyiv and the West for military equipment such as anti-missile batteries, and only recently agreed to send the helmets and flak jackets, part of a policy meant to preserve ties with Russia. Instead, it has sent some 100 tons of humanitarian aid and set up a field hospital in western Ukraine for six weeks.
    ……..
    In February, before the Russian invasion had begun, the Ynet website reported that Israel stopped the US from transferring Iron Dome batteries to Ukraine after it requested the equipment.
    ############

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  5. Ukraine needs every weapon they ask for without hesitation.

    Weapons for protection? Weird.

    BuDuh (340919)

  6. Rip, did the ”blockquote” functionality quit working?

    BuDuh (340919)

  7. Will Trump Help to Elect Stacey Abrams?
    ………
    Mr. Kemp clobbered former Sen. David Perdue, 74% to 22%, as of the latest figures. Mr. Raffensperger beat Rep. Jody Hice, 52% to 33%, an outright majority win that requires no runoff. This remarkable outcome suggests most GOP voters are focused on winning the next election rather than re-litigating the last one. Mr. Trump is hurting himself by focusing on his personal resentments rather than the interests of the Republican Party.
    ………
    Will the volcanic Mr. Trump now go Vesuvius and try to bury Messrs. Kemp and Raffensperger in November? The policy differences between Messrs. Kemp and Perdue are small. They should be able to unite against the far left Ms. Abrams, who is running again after building a national media profile. Democrats will pour tens of millions of dollars into the race.

    But Mr. Trump is so vindictive toward Mr. Kemp that he occasionally suggests he’d prefer a Gov. Abrams. “Stacey, would you like to take his place?” Mr. Trump told a rally last fall. “It’s OK with me.” This week on his Twitter knockoff, Truth Social, Mr. Trump called Mr. Kemp “the worst Election Integrity Governor in the Country” who “can’t win” the general election.

    This is coming from the man who led the Republican Party until 18 months ago, and who might want to return to the White House. His focus on personal grievances is a reminder of how Mr. Trump’s often chaotic governance cost Republicans the House in 2018, the White House in 2020, and the Senate in 2021.

    Mr. Kemp beat Ms. Abrams last time by only 55,000 votes, which is small enough that a continuing Trump vendetta could make the difference by reducing GOP turnout……..

    ………
    MAGAWorld not amused by Kemp’s win, blaming George Soros, Dominion machines, general fraud, and predicting a Stacey Abrams win.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  8. Rip, did the ”blockquote” functionality quit working?

    Not sure what you mean, I only blockquote quote someone else’s post, or when I add my own comment. Others have done the same, or don’t ever blockquote. Thanks for caring.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  9. Why Shale Drillers Are Pumping Out Dividends Instead of More Oil and Gas
    ……
    Executives at firms including Pioneer Natural Resources Co., Occidental Petroleum Corp. and Range Resources Corp. were once encouraged by compensation plans to produce certain volumes of oil and gas, with little regard for the economics. After years of losses, investors demanded changes to how bonuses are formulated, pushing for more emphasis on profitability. Now, executives who were paid to pump are rewarded more for keeping costs down and returning cash to shareholders, securities filings show.
    ……..
    The focus on profitability over growth also helps explain drillers’ muted response to the highest prices for oil and natural gas in more than a decade. Though U.S. oil and gas production has risen from lockdown lows, output remains below prepandemic levels even though U.S. crude prices have doubled since then, to about $110 a barrel, and natural gas has quadrupled, to more than $8 per million British thermal units.

    “We’re not hearing a lot of management teams talk about growing production or drilling new wells in a significant way,” said Marcus McGregor, head of commodities research at money manager Conning. “They won’t get paid to do so.”

    Shale drillers have told investors in recent weeks they will stick with drilling plans made when commodity prices were much lower and maintain steady output. Instead of chasing higher fuel prices by drilling, shale executives say they will use profits to retire debt, pay dividends and buy back stock, which boosts the value of shares that remain outstanding.
    ………
    Analysts expect oil and gas prices to remain high, partly because of U.S. producers’ reluctance to drill more. A big test comes in autumn, when 2023 spending plans are drafted and executives might feel pressure to add market share, especially if supply-chain issues ease, said Mark Viviano, who has pushed boards to rewrite bonus plans as managing partner and head of public equities at energy investment firm Kimmeridge.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  10. https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2022/05/27/biden-hits-new-heights-with-festival-of-lies-during-navy-graduation-speech-n570952
    Soon the nincompoop in the white house will be whispering “I am the man in the moon”

    mg (8cbc69)

  11. Hey Rip Murdock, while you are here can I ask a stylistic favor from you? When you put in long quotes from various news and opinion sites, could you please use the blockquote formatting? It’s the “quote” button in the style menu, or else you can just type in the word “blockquote” surrounded by “” brackets at the beginning and then “/blockquote” surrounded by “” at the end. And of course, when you are adding your own impressions, place those outside of the blockquotes. Sometimes it is kind of hard to determine where your quoted material begins and ends and how and where it is separated from your own additions.

    [Edited: Apologies to Paul Montagu; this comment was meant for Rip Murdock. The edit has been made above.]

    JVW (ee64e4) — 3/19/2022 @ 11:30 am

    But I understand the exception you carved out for yourself. I guess..

    BuDuh (340919)

  12. When it comes to gun bans, the barrier is the Second Amendment, not the gun lobby
    ……
    The gun lobby, backed by millions of gun owners, is indeed a powerful political force. But it is not the gun lobby but the Constitution that is the greatest obstacle to some of these calls for gun bans or limits. If we want to get something done, we will need to be honest and nonpartisan, a challenge that previously has proven too much for our leaders. There is a limited range of movement for legislation, given the constitutional right to bear arms and controlling constitutional precedent.
    …….
    The AR-15 is the most popular gun in America and the number is continuing to rise rapidly, with one AR-15 purchased in every five new firearms sales. These AR-15s clearly are not being purchased for armored deer. Many are purchased for personal and home protection; it also is popular for target shooting and hunting. Many gun owners like the AR-15 because it is modular; depending on the model, you can swap out barrels, bolts and high-capacity magazines, or add a variety of accessories. While it does more damage than a typical handgun, it is not the most powerful gun sold in terms of caliber; many guns have equal or greater calibre.

    That is why laws to ban or curtail sales of the AR-15 run into constitutional barriers. Most recently, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit struck down a California ban on adults under 21 purchasing semi-automatic weapons like the AR-15. And the Supreme Court has a pending Second Amendment case, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association Inc. v. Bruen, that is likely to further strengthen gun rights this term.
    ……..
    When advocates call for banning gun sales, their challenge is not “the gun lobby” but the Second Amendment. ……
    ……..
    There are some gun limits that could pass constitutional muster, but they will not materially reduce the number of guns in society or, necessarily, gun violence. There also are a variety of areas that could offer real benefits in reducing such shootings, from badly needed mental health program funding and greater school security to more effective “red flag” laws.
    ……..

    Sorry, BD, I didn’t know you were the blockquote enforcer. I suggest you look at some other posters, too.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  13. Hey Rip Murdock, while you are here can I ask a stylistic favor from you? When you put in long quotes from various news and opinion sites, could you please use the blockquote formatting? ……

    Sure. I’ve always italicized my comments.

    Rip Murdock (b274da) — 3/19/2022 @ 12:46 pm

    Promises, promises..

    Not sure why you agreed to something that you gripe about now. Not my blog, so, as you know, I have nothing to enforce. I do agree with JVW that it makes your posts easier to read.

    Sorry for the hassle.

    BuDuh (340919)

  14. liz cheney is still looking for wmd like o.j. is still looking for nicole’s murderer

    JF (e44c58)

  15. At least you read my posts…:)

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  16. And you read mine. 👍

    BuDuh (340919)

  17. I’m signing onto this. There’s a long game in play:

    sounds like cheney’s plan is:

    step 1: lose
    step 2: lose

    it’s the classic nevertrump strategy, so shrewd that no one has figured out how to counter it

    JF (e44c58)

  18. This young Ukrainian man under artillery attack looks like he has the right attitude to handle adversity
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1530271375822307329

    steveg (0b19da)

  19. When advocates call for banning gun sales, their challenge is not “the gun lobby” but the Second Amendment. ……

    MacDonald v. City of Chicago, which applied Heller to the states, was in 2010. Texas had open carry of Eugene Stoner and Mikhail Kalashnikov designed genital stimulation devices since 1992. (The other kind were illegal until 2008 when the Texas law was struck down by the Fifth Circuit.)

    nk (0ab8ab)

  20. First news item

    A distressed Trump asked what were they going to do about assault rifles:

    I disagreed with him then. I agree with him now. Military-level-of-lethality weapons should be subject to military-level discipline, training, supervision, and safeguards.

    nk (0ab8ab)

  21. I object, as I have in the past, to the notion that Democrat officeholders are investigating Trump or his organization out of some apolitical respect for the rule of law. These are people who have routinely looked the other way regarding other Democrats, as a necessary part of their climb to power. Trump may be an evil, misogynist, flaming assh0le, but it is his affiliation with the other party that makes him fair game, and only that.

    So, while I do not care to defend Trump, I also do not care to laud the circling sharks.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  22. “…interpreted as escalation by Moscow” is one of most appeasing milqetoast comments I’ve seen from this Biden administration. Ukraine is fighting an existential war–an attempted cultural genocide–against Russian fascist invaders, and the Biden folks are still worried about Putin’s feelings. Gah.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  23. OTOH, I think that Liz Cheney IS doing what she is doing for the respect of the rule of law that I don’t see in opportunistic Democrats. I hope that she files a separate report from the Democrats on her committee, as I trust her objectivity to the same degree that I don’t trust Pelosi’s or the other Democrats. Cheney has nothing to gain but her soul.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  24. Mr. Kemp beat Ms. Abrams last time by only 55,000 votes, which is small enough that a continuing Trump vendetta could make the difference by reducing GOP turnout……..

    Well, if he tries, several things can happen, and most of them are bad (for Trump).

    1) Kemp could be elected, making Trump’s threats hollow.

    2) Trump can get Abrams elected, making the GOP decide not to continue with this wild man at all.

    3) Trump can get Abrams elected, cowing the GOP into subservience and making Cheney’s run against him far more likely to succeed as all but the Koolaid drinkers abandon this madman for good.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  25. Cheney took the same oath to defend and uphold the Constitution that Trump betrayed, and it says plenty about my party that she’ll probably lose a primary while Trump is the likely frontrunner if/when he throws his hat in.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  26. Military-level-of-lethality weapons should be subject to military-level discipline, training, supervision, and safeguards.

    And they have been since the 1930s.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  27. maybe cheney can get fauci to be her running mate

    Constitution/Science 2024

    JF (e44c58)

  28. The Trump article is interesting. I remember when it happened. He’s such a deeply flawed and limited person that seeing him express something that approximates a human response is surprising. Still, Mick knew what he cared about more: being perceived as a winner.

    Time123 (3fd5c4)

  29. Absolutely, Time123.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  30. Let’s have a war
    so our kids can go and die
    Let’s have a war
    since lockheed needs the money
    let’s have a war
    Zelenskyy’s as clean as Putin
    Let’s have war
    So we can start the nuking

    kaf (6b8885)

  31. @24, nope. Trump is very much closer to what the Median GOP voter wants then Cheney or Kemp. Unless you’re a sitting gov you can’t take his enmity.

    Time123 (3fd5c4)

  32. Bitter irony:

    The police chief who reportedly made the call not to immediately send officers into Robb Elementary School to confront a gunman was elected to Uvalde’s City Council just three weeks ago after running on a platform of communication and outreach to the community.

    Peter Arredondo, the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, stopped at least 19 officers from breaking into the school as the gunman opened fire for at least an hour.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  33. The U.S. also has said Ukraine forces would need at least a week of training to use them.

    There you have it; boots on the ground. $53 billion- $40 billion shoveled out the door in just three weeks through September to non-taxpaying, non-U.S. citizens while Americans kids are left sitting targets 10 years after Sandy Hook. And they’re already whining for more weapons and aid.

    Lest you forget: By December of 1961, 3,200 U.S. military personnel were in Vietnam as advisors, supported by $65 million in military equipment and $136 million in economic aid. Military assistance was reorganized as the United States Military Assistance Command, Vietnam (MACV), formed under the command of General Paul D. Harkins in February 1962.

    https://olivedrab.com/od_history_vietnam_advisors.php#:~:text=By%20December%20of%201961%2C%203%2C200%20U.S.%20military%20personnel,of%20General%20Paul%20D.%20Harkins%20in%20February%201962.

    DCSCA (2f05f0)

  34. joe biden is a mental no show
    the media loves his ice cream cone
    zelensky takes our cake
    while durham spray paints
    barrs bondo

    mg (8cbc69)

  35. Puke Alert
    ryan/cheney\2024/

    mg (8cbc69)

  36. https://aclj.org/government-corruption/aclj-obtains-new-memo-in-state-department-lawsuit-unveiling-unreported-obama-era-officials-secret-meeting-with-irans-zarif-during-trump-administration?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=d-05262022_seg-jaytw_top-GC_typ-AR_con-iranmeeting_var-A

    In the FOIA lawsuit against the State Department that ensued, the ACLJ just obtained a never-before-seen “unclassified” October 2018 memo entitled, “Notes From ‘Iran and the US: An Off-the-Record Conversation with Foreign Minister Mohamad Javad Zarif.’”

    According to this memo, the previously unreported “off-the-record meeting” took place at the “Iranian Ambassador’s Residence, NYC,” on October 4, 2018 – just days after major media coverage of Kerry’s admission of the secret efforts. The memo we unearthed contains notes on the former U.S. diplomats’ conversation with Zarif and his responses “to questions posed by a group of US former ambassadors and policy analysts.”

    The key here is “former” – and the date, October 2018, right in the middle of the Trump Administration.

    The newly obtained memo, regarding the secret meeting between Zarif and these former U.S. officials, included discussions of nuclear weapons, potential prisoner swaps, Afghanistan withdrawal and negotiations with the Taliban, Houthi rebels, Syria, Suleimani’s popularity in Iran, and the “region in turmoil.”

    Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo – now ACLJ Senior Counsel for Global Affairs – reviewed this memo and reacted by calling this discovery “a big deal for sure.” He continued: “This is exactly what we were fighting. . . . The arrogance. The indecency. The hatred of Israel.”

    Why is John Kerry not in jail?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  37. Nice companies finish first? That’s a question, not a declaration. But . . . as I watch companies here in the Seattle area desperately try to keep workers, and find more workers, I have been struck by two companies that seem to have less trouble holding on to and recruiting workers than others: Trader Joe’s and Chick-Fil-A.

    Have any of you seen a similar pattern? Or contradictory examples?

    (I suppose that one reason I patronize both is that the people working in them seem happy to be there.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  38. From a very brief article in the Tuesday New York Times:

    Americans’ financial health reached its highest level in nearly a decade last year, the Federal Reserve said Monday, spurred by a strong job market, and government support payments.

    Evidence? A survey last fall that found that almost 8 in 10 adults said they were “doing okay”, or even “living comfortably”, the highest percentage since they began running the survey in 2013.

    (As I assume most of you know, there are about two jobs open for every American looking for a job.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  39. #35 Here’s a better one: Kasich/Rubio in 2024, Cheney for secretary of state, Ryan back as head of the Ways and Means committee.

    One thing the four share: They all have strong families, though it took Kasich two tries. (His first wife is on good enough terms with him that she has campaigned for him after their divorce.) Cheney, who is married to a Wyoming lawyer, has the most children, five.

    I have long thought that good marriages are a positive sign for any leader.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  40. Evidence? A survey last fall that found that almost 8 in 10 adults said they were “doing okay”, or even “living comfortably”, the highest percentage since they began running the survey in 2013.

    (As I assume most of you know, there are about two jobs open for every American looking for a job.)

    Jim Miller (406a93) — 5/27/2022 @ 6:13 pm

    And this year 7 in 10 say we are going in the wrong direction and that Biden isn’t competent.

    Do you ever get bored carrying that water?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  41. I have been struck by two companies that seem to have less trouble holding on to and recruiting workers than others: Trader Joe’s and Chick-Fil-A.

    Have any of you seen a similar pattern? Or contradictory examples?

    (I suppose that one reason I patronize both is that the people working in them seem happy to be there.)

    Jim Miller (406a93) — 5/27/2022 @ 5:58 pm

    Amen to Trader Joe’s. I haven’t even seen a Help Wanted sign there.

    I spend more at Trader Joe’s than any other grocery store. I love the place. It has food from all over the world, and it strikes a great balance among tasty/healthy/affordability.

    Before I moved to Reno from the Bay Area, I made sure there was a Trader Joe’s here.

    Chik-Fil-A may treat its employees well, but I don’t frequent the place. Ever since I saw the documentary “Food, Inc.”, I just can’t eat factory-farmed chicken. I’ll eat pasture-raised chicken and eggs, but not the type where chickens are crammed so tight they can barely turn around, fed food with antibiotics in it, and grow so fast they can’t even support their own weight (they just lie on the ground). I highly doubt Chik-Fil-A, or any other chain restaurant, uses pasture-raised chicken, because it’s more expensive.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  42. Gallup has been asking a life satisfaction question for some time, and they have found some correlates:

    Life satisfaction levels vary the most by three demographic attributes — education level, annual household income and religious service attendance.

    Majorities of Americans who attend religious services weekly (67%), have household incomes of $40,000 to $99,999 (52%) or $100,000 or more (61%), or earned college degrees (54%) are very satisfied with their own lives. Meanwhile, less than half of their counterparts express the highest level of satisfaction, though majorities still say they are very or somewhat satisfied.

    (Like other pollsters, they have found little relationship between how well Americans are doing personally, and how highly they rate the direction of the nation.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  43. Here’s a piece by Sam Harris on guns from 2013. As expected very objective with a somewhat surprising conclusion. I’d summarize but then you’d miss out on his reasoning. It could have been written this week (modulo some statistics that probably need some tweaking.

    https://www.samharris.org/blog/the-riddle-of-the-gun

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  44. #41 norcal – Here’s what Chick-Fil-A says about their chicken:

    Chick-fil-A sources 100% real, whole, boneless breast of chicken that has never been ground or separated, and that contains no fillers or added steroids or hormones*. Our chicken is raised in barns (not cages), on farms in the United States, in accordance with our Animal Wellbeing Standards, and with No Antibiotics Ever (since May 2019).

    When it comes to chicken, Chick-fil-A is committed to doing the right thing. Read more about our rigorous chicken standards.

    * No artificial or added hormones are used in the production of any poultry in the United States.

    (Links omitted.)

    (Of course their chickens may prefer a different ending, as this cartoon illustrates.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  45. (Like other pollsters, they have found little relationship between how well Americans are doing personally, and how highly they rate the direction of the nation.)

    What? How dare they be happy without a Great Orange Daddy in Washington? Heartless, that’s what they are! Heartless!

    nk (882012)

  46. Israel refused US request to transfer anti-tank missiles to Ukraine — report

    Translation: “We’re all out of corn flakes. F.U.”

    Lest you forget:

    U.S. to send Israel $1 billion to replenish Iron Dome missile defenses, senator says

    June 1/2, 2021

    A senior U.S. senator said on Tuesday he expected Washington would quickly authorize as much as US$1 billion for Israel to replenish its Iron Dome missile defence system after clashes in May with Hamas.
    “There will be a $1 billion request coming to the Pentagon this week from the (Israeli) defense minister to replenish the Iron Dome and a few other things, to upgrade the system,” Senator Lindsey Graham told reporters in Jerusalem.

    A senior Republican on the Senate Appropriations Committee, Graham met with both Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Benny Gantz during a trip to Israel. The committee oversees spending including foreign military aid. Graham said Iron Dome had saved thousands of lives during last month’s rocket attacks, and predicted Israel’s request would find favor with both President Joe Biden and Congress, which is narrowly controlled by Biden’s Democrats.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/u-s-senator-expects-u-s-to-send-more-funds-for-israels-iron-dome#:~:text=U.S.%20to%20send%20Israel%20%241%20billion%20to%20replenish,%E2%80%A2%202%20minute%20read%20%E2%80%A2%20Join%20the%20conversation

    “It took me three hours to figure out “F.U.” was Felix Ungar.” = Oscar Madison [Walter Matthau] ‘The Odd Couple’ 1968

    DCSCA (924a5c)

  47. @43 That was a good article and I appreciate you posting it. He probably could have left this part out

    Given the changes that have occurred in our military, and even in our politics, the idea that a few pistols and an AR 15 in every home constitutes a necessary bulwark against totalitarianism is fairly ridiculous. If you believe that the armed forces of the United States might one day come for you—and you think your cache of small arms will suffice to defend you if they do—I’ve got a black helicopter to sell you.

    and been none the worse off. No one actually makes this argument. And no one was thinking it was ridiculous to hand out small arms to Ukrainians. Or Afghans. Or Vietnamese. Or various groups in Central America. Or Cubans. Or Palestinians. Or Kurds.

    frosty (141a47)

  48. AJ_Liberty – Thanks for linking to that Sam Harris article.

    I would add one additional gun-control difficulty to those he discusses: Our increasing wealth.

    When I was a kid, police worried about the proliferation of zip guns, and similar devices. The gang bangers of that time didn’t use these weapons because they preferred them, but because they were poor, and the zip guns were cheap. And often, the gang bangers got around on foot, or using public transportation, because they couldn’t afford cars, or even motorcycles.

    Now that we are so much wealthier than we were seventy years ago, almost every American can afford real weapons, and many can afford the tools to make guns, if they find it difficult to buy them illegally.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  49. Jim Miller (406a93) — 5/27/2022 @ 8:01 pm

    Good on Chik-Fil-A for doing away with antibiotics in 2019. I was not aware of that.

    Don’t be fooled by their “barn” language. I can guarantee these aren’t the classic, red, Iowa two-story barns with a few chickens playing hide and seek in the hay. They are massive square-footage buildings with as many chickens crammed into them as possible. What I said about barely being able to turn around stands.

    Yes, it’s better than cages, but it’s not pasture, either.

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m not the PETA type. I just think better meat comes from pasture-raised chickens, grass-fed beef, etc.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  50. Kasich/Rubio in 2024

    Kasich is only appealing to people who are weak of mind. He is on 4 sides of any subject and is as resolute in his convictions as a tub of lime Jello. I’d rather see Souter as the nominee.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  51. Americans’ financial health reached its highest level in nearly a decade last year, the Federal Reserve said Monday, spurred by a strong job market, and government support payments.

    Yet over 70% say the country is on the wrong track, which matches the worst levels of the previous 12 years.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/direction_of_country-902.html#polls

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  52. Kasich/Rubio in 2024

    Kasich is only appealing to people who are weak of mind.

    Yep. He reminds me of Arlen Specter.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  53. AOC is biden’s teammate? Since when? We nearly got cueller. Jessica Cisneros will get him next time. Can you get democrats to vote for you if you are anti-choice nra gun nut. that is the question. Pelosi supported cueller another reason the left loathes her.

    asset (0811ea)

  54. Young survivor of school shooting. I wanted to be a police officer to help people. Now I want to be a surgeon.

    asset (0811ea)

  55. Food inflation at the highest level in 42 years. Gas prices at record levels. Biden crippling energy production.

    But no mean tweets. Just viscious, racist, hateful speeches and destructive policies hollowing out America.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  56. I can see Warren/AOC as a ticket (from Hell) but never Biden/AOC. As it is, the hard Left is having real problems making Biden say and do stupid things.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  57. @55: Pretty much. I’m thinking that there is going t be ared shirt at the state level this year. Maybe even in NM, where 40% of small business folded during the lockdowns.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  58. *going to be a red shift….

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  59. But no mean tweets.

    And no Kushners selling green cards to rich Chinese at $1 million a card, either. Very sad.

    nk (882012)

  60. @55 Don’t forget pushing us to WWIII. Restoring norms both international and domestic.

    @59 That you know of. Given how the media treated the story on Hunter’s laptop it’s not like anyone is really digging for anything like that. But Hunter is raking in money for the Big Guy from somewhere and someone bought his “artwork”.

    frosty (141a47)

  61. Yup, “mean tweets” is a good summary of why ppl preferred Biden to Trump. Your ability to understand and articulate what’s going on around you and why remains top notch.

    Time123 (3fd5c4)

  62. nk,

    How can Kushner sell green cards? I’m curious?

    EPWJ (ded958)

  63. or did I misread your comment?

    EPWJ (ded958)

  64. @61 those folks here would prefer biden to desantis, and biden to haley, etc.

    so, right, it has nothing to do with “mean tweets”

    it also has nothing to do with what those folks say it’s about either

    JF (e44c58)

  65. the EB-5 program, is a Reagan creation and has been the law of the land sine 1990 by legislation and since 1983 by executive order.

    “By May 1, 2017, there were 883 USCIS-approved regional centers[15] and by 2014 the “vast majority” of EB-5 visas were “granted through regional center[s].”[7]: 4  By 2015, the EB-5 program had become an “important source of capital for developers”[10] and for the regional centers.[13] If an EB-5 investment is made in a regional center, the jobs may be created indirectly through economic activity, as opposed to a direct investment.[citation needed]

    As of 23 April 2020, 78,278 investors have applied for the EB5 program.[16] Most investors—about 80 percent—come from four countries: China, South Korea, Taiwan and the United Kingdom. Large numbers of applicants have also have come from Vietnam, India, Brazil, Mexico and Nigeria.[16] In 2014, 85% of the 10,692 EB-5 visas issued were for Chinese nationals according to a study by Savills Studley, a “real estate services firm.”[17][18] On December 20, 2019, President Trump signed a law extending the Regional Center Program through September 30, 2020.[19] On March 15 2022, President Biden signed a law extending the regional center program through September 30 2027.[20] “

    EPWJ (ded958)

  66. 12-0 That’s John Kasich’s record in general elections. In three of them, beginning with his first victory for state senate, he defeated Democratic incumbents.

    After a single term in the Ohio Senate, he served nine terms as a member of the United States House of Representatives from Ohio’s 12th congressional district.[4] His tenure in the House included 18 years on the House Armed Services Committee and six years as chairman of the House Budget Committee. Kasich was a key figure in the passage of both 1996 welfare reform legislation and the Balanced Budget Act of 1997. Kasich decided not to run for re-election in 2000 and ran for president instead. He withdrew from the race before the Republican primaries.

    After leaving Congress, Kasich hosted Heartland with John Kasich on Fox News from 2001 to 2007 and served as managing director of the Lehman Brothers office in Columbus, Ohio.[5][6] He ran for governor of Ohio in 2010, defeating Democratic incumbent Ted Strickland.[7] He was re-elected in 2014, defeating Democratic challenger Ed FitzGerald by 30 percentage points. Kasich was term-limited and could not seek a third gubernatorial term in 2018; he was succeeded by fellow Republican Mike DeWine.

    In the three times he left an office voluntarily, he was succeeded by another Republican.

    Historically, Republicans have done best electorally when they nominated men from humble backgrounds, Lincoln and Eisenhower being the clearest examples.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  67. Anyone else notice the pack of lies JB told at the Naval Academy? He got a deferment from Vietnam because of asthma, somehow got an appointment to the Academy the same year he was a undergrad senior, and he had a promising football/law school plan.

    @61 JB does all of the things you claim you hate about DT. He’s a narcissist with all of the pathological lying that entails. He likes to grope little girls and any woman that come within arms reach. He and his family are using his position to enrich themselves. He’s incompetent as a leader. He can’t keep basic facts straight and routinely says stupid things when you put him in front of a microphone. He encourages political strife and division.

    At the end of the day Rs could at least point to DT judicial picks and a few other policy items as things they liked even if they didn’t like him personally or want to defend him. You seem more than willing to defend him. What’s the equivalent policy or accomplishment you’d put up for JB?

    frosty (141a47)

  68. @66 the John Kasich that defeated democrat incumbents is now the John Kasich joining democrats on the stage at their convention to elect a demented train wreck

    JF (e44c58)

  69. How can Kushner sell green cards? I’m curious?

    “Investor” visas.

    BEIJING — The Kushner family came to the United States as refugees, worked hard and made it big — and if you invest in Kushner properties, so can you.

    That was the message delivered Saturday by White House senior adviser Jared Kushner’s sister Nicole Kushner Meyer to a ballroom full of wealthy Chinese investors in Beijing.

    Over several hours of slide shows and presentations, representatives from the Kushner family business urged Chinese citizens gathered at a Ritz-Carlton hotel to consider investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in a New Jersey luxury apartment complex that would help them secure what’s known as an investor visa.

    Read the whole thing. BTW, at the time, it was $500K in a distressed area, $1 million in a non-distressed.

    nk (8fe5db)

  70. Now, investor visas can be real. That’s why you see so many “replacement people” running convenience stores and gas stations in poor neighborhoods, for example. But with the Kushners we’re talking about writing a check to billionaire real estate developers who are the President’s in-laws.

    nk (8fe5db)

  71. This Wikipedia article is, as far as I know, a good brief description of the scandal-plagued EB-5 program:

    The United States EB-5 visa, employment-based fifth preference category[1] or EB-5 Immigrant Investor Visa Program, created in 1990 by the Immigration Act of 1990, provides a method for eligible Immigrant Investors to become lawful permanent residents—informally known as “green card” holders—by investing substantial capital to finance a business in the United States that will employ at least 10 American workers.[2] The current investment amount is controversial as USCIS has not updated their website[3] nor issued guidance in light of a federal judge, in June 2021, striking down the 2019 EB-5 “modernization” regulation. The judge found the 2019 regulation which increased the investment threshold from $500,000 to $900,000 (in rural/ high employment areas) invalid as it was enacted by government officials not properly appointed to their post in violation of the 1998 Federal Vacancies Reform Act (FVRA).

    (There’s a brief description of the Kushner’s use of this program near the end of the article.)

    Given the complexity, and the scandals, I have sometimes despairingly thought we should dump the program and replace it with one that simply auctioned off a fixed number of “green cards” each year. With, one hopes, checks on the backgrounds of those eligible to participate in the auction.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  72. What does conservative columnist George Will think Biden has gotten right? After spending much of his column criticizing Biden’s mistakes, Will comes to two substantial Biden achievements:

    Perhaps the most important of Biden’s 500 days was Feb. 24, when Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine, setting in motion momentous events, substantially influenced by Biden’s deft diplomacy. These events are pulling Germany toward a world role commensurate with its geopolitical potential, and they are bringing NATO, through Finland’s coming membership, to about 833 miles of Russia’s border.

    Unfortunately for Biden, what Americans usually want in foreign policy is as little of it as possible, so his stunning achievement in the Ukraine crisis — reviving the concept of “the West” — will pay scant dividends. Similarly, a tight labor market is the best anti-poverty program, and a downward distributor of wealth — but not when inflation more than erases wage gains.

    Both, by the way, are conservative achievements and, for me, both have been pleasant surprises.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  73. nk,
    No Chinese investors wrote billion dollar checks to the Kushner’s. Biden’s yes, Kushner’s no. If you want to absorb the latest tin foil hat conspiracy theories, go ahead, but you might want to want to know what they are really doing. Like you, I don’t like people on the left or the right enriching themselves after public or during public office. But once they leave, its legal AND ethical.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  74. #68 As you point out, Kasich does not lack for principles, or courage. Naturally, Trumpistas despise him for those qualities, since they think everyone should be for sale. Real American patriots will admire Kasich for them.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  75. Almost any hunting rifle has “military-level lethality.” A .22 rifle or pistol can kill somebody.

    An AR-15 is not an “assault weapon.” It has semiautomatic fire only and is no more lethal than hunting rifles. The M-16 has selective fire, making it an “assault weapon.” The military M-16 is illegal for civilians to own.

    Several of my friends and relatives own an AR-15. They are the most law-abiding people you can imagine.

    DN (f72143)

  76. Jim,

    Kushner isnt involved in the “selling of green cards”- during his presentation, my business partner was there, it was the United States Department of States officer for Business development, gave that presentation.

    In Qatar, Dubai, Russia, Greece, India, and Indonesia aw well as Egypt the Kushners AS WELL AS OTHER DEVELOPERS including Bloomberg and Forbes mass give these investment pitchers and the embassy officer and many times the Ambassador themselves, attend = they promote the EB-5 program HEAVILY. Not the Kushners. I know – I’ve mentioned these years ago on patterico. I attended countless of these on behalf of excited foreign friends whern I was in the middle east for almost a decade.

    These people do nothing but employ Americans, work hard and pay taxes and get zero benefits

    EPWJ (ded958)

  77. DN

    Bolt action rifles are military weapons in the US Army still….

    EPWJ (ded958)

  78. I’ve said all along that Biden is a bad choice as president and only won because he ran against Trump. He was the “least bad choice”. He’s doing about as poorly as I expected in most areas but is still better then Trump for a variety of reasons.

    Less corrupt so far
    Better foreign policy (Russias invasion of UKE has been handled well so far)
    Less incompetent (but still very incompetent)
    So far no signs he will attempt to steal the presidency. That last one is a BIG deal.

    Time123 (2b055f)

  79. Sam Harris: “If you believe that the armed forces of the United States might one day come for you—and you think your cache of small arms will suffice to defend you if they do—I’ve got a black helicopter to sell you.”

    Wolverines! I disagree that no one makes this argument. I have several past colleagues that fervently believe that the 2A’s legitimacy is (historically) anchored in opposing a tyrannical federal government….in whatever form that opposition might take. I agree that the majority of pro-gun folk don’t usually elevate this to the same level as say self defense (feeling safe)….but there are obviously militia and survivalist groups that do (lumping in the fall of government or major social unrest with a totalitarian government and Beto coming for your AR-15).

    Love it or hate it, the U.S. culture is invested in guns. We love our good guy movies where guns prominently solve problems and protect the weak, we played cowboys and indians running around with plastic guns and not self-executing peace treaties, many grew up hunting and sport shooting as recreation, and, push come to shove, many simply don’t trust that the cops will arrive on scene quick enough to be an effective deterrent — rugged individuals don’t out source their security. (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psych-unseen/201510/the-psychology-guns) As Harris asserts, guns diminish the advantage of strength or numbers.

    We love guns even though they probably statistically raise the risk of suicide, accidents, and impulsive uses in the house while we likely over-estimate the actual value of deterrence (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-019-0373-z). We willingly drift into confirmation bias.

    The NRA and Republicans will get battered the next few weeks as being obstructionist and, at its worst, enabling mass shootings. The good-guy-with-a-gun meme is taking a beating as Buffalo and Uvalde shows that evil doesn’t need much to still wreak havoc. A propped-open door, a hesitant police chief, or an out-of-position or under-trained resource officer is all it takes to create a catastrophe. Humans remain the weak link and always will be…..

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  80. @75, this is incorrect.

    A weapon with a the capability of rapidly firing 20+ .223 rounds is FAR more deadly to people than a bolt action 30-30 or shotgun with 5 round clip.

    A .22 /can/ kill a person but it’s a lot harder.

    Time123 (2b055f)

  81. AJ, well said.

    Time123 (2b055f)

  82. #77 EPWJ – I’m not sure why you think I said anything about the Kushners, other than a brief pointer to a paragraph in the Wikipedia article.

    More important, to my mind, is the scandals in the program, for example:

    On August 24, 2015, the SEC filed civil fraud charges against Lobsang Dargey for his misuse of the EB-5 Visa program[66] by misappropriating about $136 million from Chinese investors through his Path America entity. The SEC received a settlement offer in January 2017 that “signaled “a possible resolution to the high-profile case”.

    By 2016 scrutiny of the EB-5 program had increased as “investigators uncovered numerous cases of fraud, discovered individuals with possible ties to Chinese and Iranian intelligence using fake documents and learned that international fugitives who have laundered money had infiltrated the program.”[2] In that year Senator Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), a longtime critic of EB-5, described the program as one that had “long been riddled with corruption and national security vulnerabilities.

    (The Lobsang Dargey scandal had one redeeming feature, to my mind: Dargey is from Tibet, and I can’t feel too harshly against a Tibetan cheating Chinese investors.)

    By the way, EPWJ, I don’t see any connection to Reagan in the article. If you have one, could you provide a few details and, if possible, a link.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  83. “I’ve said all along that Biden is a bad choice”

    Time, mg and NJRob will never grade Trump fairly and are simply trying to get a rise out of readers here that don’t support Trump. This is the opposite of a good-faith discussion. Why waste time on humoring them?

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  84. It’s not only the round that makes a gun lethal. A .223 would not be legal for deer with any bullet. Neither would a military 7.62×39 with full metal case. Not lethal enough.

    To add to what Time123 said, what makes the Mattels more lethal in mass shootings is the high capacity magazine, the ability to squeeze off shots as fast you can curl your finger, the negligible recoil, and the pistol grip and forearm that let you hold it, and spray, like a firehose.

    I would also add that selective fire AKs might be capable of sustained full-auto, but military M4s/M16s are mostly shot semi-auto like their civilian cousins in combat, or at most in three-round bursts.

    nk (f35bad)

  85. I guess seeing the case against Trump trivialized to “mean tweets” annoyed me. But you’re right. I’m cluttering up the thread by pointlessly engaging with the trolls. Thank you for the reminder.

    Time123 (645526)

  86. @84, great observations. I think the negligible recoil and its accuracy are why the AR-15’s are so popular

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  87. The EB-5 program can be easily corrupted and can distort real estate markets by the inflow of foreign cash. Exhibit A is Andre Agassi’s brother-in-law, who pocketed EB-5 money for his personal use.
    In the two projects he built in Snohomish County, he overpaid for the land and got a below-market return on the finished projects. In one of them, most of the 60,000 square feet of commercial space is a vacant white elephant.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  88. And Miller beat me to the punch.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  89. @72 it’s not a coincidence that both bush and biden comically confused iraq and ukraine in recent speeches

    biden’s handling of the invasion is an achievement like bush/cheney’s handling of iraq wmd is an achievement

    i like handling of invasions that never happened much better, but the dead and maimed don’t have a forum to argue the point

    JF (e44c58)

  90. ‘Several of my friends and relatives have never hijacked airplanes. They are the most law-abiding people you can imagine.’

    FIFY.

    DCSCA (5093ff)

  91. In the context of military weapons/weapons of war! the individual infantrymans rifle is the most ubiquitous weapon, but also the 2nd least capable weapon of a mass causualty event in the common military arsenal. The least deadly individually carried weapon- to any enemy at least- would be any pistol carried by a newly minted 2nd Lt.

    I’ll probably be face down in a puddle, cuffed in my driveway within the hour for writing this, but a school shooter could do far worse damage by buying civilian flash bangs grenades borrowing a computer and learning how to make nail bombs, carrying a 9mm with extended magazine.

    Banning AR15’s won’t stop school shootings, they won’t get less deadly, they’ll just go to a different method. Most of these people are fairly clever, they are not going to be intellectually flummoxed by the AR taken out of their toolbox of evil. “OMG, I can’t buy an AR! Well, I guess I’ll just have to become a priest instead”. They will concentrate their f-ed up brain on other means and methods

    steveg (083724)

  92. SteveG, You’re right that this isn’t an AR-15 problem, it’s a “easy access to weapons optimized for killing people problem.”

    Any reduction in access would been to address that and not a specific make and model.

    You’re also right that the mentally unwell will pursue other means. You can kill a man with a pillow or a knife if you try hard enough. But killed 20 would be a stretch. It’s also arguable that if the first few people who try to massacre school children with a wood axe fail we will see less repeats.

    The solution to access to weapons intended to quickly kill people isn’t so obvious I can write it in a blog comment. But it’s not an unsolvable problem.

    Time123 (645526)

  93. On Ukraine, the momentum has shifted to Russia. They are using their larger force wisely conducting multiple attacks at once to make the smaller Ukrainian forces run in circles. The russians are also using artillery well.

    IMO Ukraine is in trouble unless they can cut Russian rail access

    steveg (083724)

  94. A propped-open door, a hesitant police chief, or an out-of-position or under-trained resource officer is all it takes to create a catastrophe. Humans remain the weak link and always will be…..

    When the shepherds can’t guard the sheep, they shouldn’t be surprised when the wolves take the flock.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  95. It’s absurd the lengths some go to to try and absolve Biden of the deliberate destruction of the American economy and energy production and transmission because he fits their mold of a standard corrupt politician. Some need to get out of their ivory towers and speak to people whose lives are being destroyed by these deliberate acts. This isn’t a game and your feelings don’t matter.

    NJRob (921770)

  96. The day of the shooting was the end of the year awards celebration which parents and family members attend. That day is typically happy chaos. It is not unusual for a classroom door to be left unlocked or even open. Parents who have signed in at the office and are on campus to head to the assembly may pop in at their kid’s classroom, say hi to the teacher, etc. It’s just mind-boggling that that small act of leaving one door unlocked can be so catastrophic.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  97. Jim Miller @ 72,

    I agree.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  98. AOC is biden’s teammate? Since when?

    asset @ 53,

    “Teammate” as in both belong to the Democratic Party.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  99. NJRob, good job describing the commentary so far. You’re spot on as always.

    Time123 (645526)

  100. sounds like cheney’s plan is:

    step 1: lose
    step 2: lose

    it’s the classic nevertrump strategy, so shrewd that no one has figured out how to counter it

    JF (e44c58) — 5/27/2022 @ 4:19 pm

    Heh. While we both know that isn’t her plan, it may well end up being what happens. However, I strongly suspect it would be – while not her first choice obviously – okay with her because, unlike the MAGA members of Congress, she will still have her integrity and moral compass intact.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  101. Worth adding that the Biden administration has been every bit as awefull on energy policy as was predicted. Can’t think of anything in that arena I think they’ve done well.

    Time123 (645526)

  102. Jim Geraghty has some observations about Trump and his speech at the NRA convention:

    The George R. Brown Convention Center’s general assembly theater hall seats about 3,600, one of the smaller venues for the portion of the NRA convention that features speeches from lawmakers and NRA officials in recent years. In 2019, President Trump’s speech was at Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis; in 2018, President Trump’s speech was at the arena of the Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center, which seats nearly 10,000 people.

    And yet yesterday there were some empty seats for Trump’s address – perhaps it is a sign that attendees have already seen Trump speeches and don’t feel as much of a need to see him in person, or perhaps a sign that the long lines at the magnetometers made some people choose to browse the 14 acres of guns on display instead.

    Clearly, if Trump sees this description of the empty seats, Geraghty will be the object of his wrath…

    Anyway, he goes on to describe the former president’s Uvalde comments/gun control:

    “Surely, we can all agree our schools should not be the softest target, our schools should be the single hardest target in our country,” Trump said. “And that’s why, as part of a comprehensive school safety plan, it is time to finally allow highly trained teachers to safely and discreetly concealed carry. Let them conceal carry. And again, they have to be able to handle it, they have to be highly trained, all of those things, but let them do that. It would be so much better, and so much more effective, even from a cost standpoint. Because there is no sign more inviting to a mass killer than a sign that declares a ‘gun free zone.’ Most dangerous place. I know it sounds good, and it really does. Doesn’t it sound wonderful? But it’s not. And statistically, it’s a total disaster. Gun-free zone, they look at that sign, and they say, ‘that’s where I’m going.’ We cannot have that, because if somebody goes into that building, all of those innocent people will be taken out, will be killed, will be tortured. Bad things will happen. Have to get rid of it.”

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  103. If I thought giving up my AR15 would stop school shootings, I’d do it.

    steveg (083724)

  104. I’d strongly disagree that schools should be a hardened facility. This wasn’t a requirement for nearly all of the country’s history, and it shouldn’t be now.

    The fact that we’ve been in this kind of state largely since Columbine (not the first school shooting or public mass shooting, but it clearly kicked off the trend over the last 23 years) is the symptom of a society that’s sick and rotten throughout its foundation. Any laws or policy proposals being thrown out now are like giving an aspirin to a cancer patient.

    For all the socio-economic difficulties of the US circa 1980, at least it wasn’t this dysfunctional from a cultural standpoint.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  105. Dana, Unusual events are how good processes fail. I see it all the time professionally. You put a good process in place. You train to it. Then there’s a once a year event that puts your ppl out of position and something bad happens. But I’ve never seen anything this tragic at what I do.

    Time123 (645526)

  106. @96 that’s not what happened

    “At 11:27, we have video evidence that the exterior door where we knew the shooter Ramos entered was propped open by a teacher,” Steve McCraw, director of Texas Department of Public Safety, told reporters Friday. He said the teacher had gone to her car to get her cellphone.

    11:30 a.m.: The teacher inside of Robb Elementary reemerges from the same door and calls 911 to report a man with a gun nearby.

    minutes later the killer walks through that same unlocked door

    the dereliction of duty here, or lack of training and drills, is off the charts

    following simple lockdown protocol makes all the debate about guns and what cops did later largely irrelevant

    JF (e44c58)

  107. If I thought giving up my AR15 would stop school shootings, I’d do it.

    No one is claiming that school shootings would stop if one guy gave up his AR15.

    Radegunda (7bb925)

  108. “following simple lockdown protocol makes all the debate about guns and what cops did later largely irrelevant”

    lol no it doesn’t.

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  109. Similarly, a tight labor market is the best anti-poverty program, and a downward distributor of wealth — but not when inflation more than erases wage gains.

    Jim, this is not a compliment. This is saying that the tight labor market is the result of goosing the economy with nearly $2 trillion in newly-printed money, causing rampant inflation. Sure, with a goosed economy you get a tight labor market, but not only are the wage gains ephemeral, so are the jobs.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  110. And yet yesterday there were some empty seats for Trump’s address – perhaps it is a sign that attendees have already seen Trump speeches and don’t feel as much of a need to see him in person, or perhaps a sign that the long lines at the magnetometers made some people choose to browse the 14 acres of guns on display instead.

    Well, the nut bags were not permitted, per the Secret Service, to carry their firearms into a hall w/an ex-POTUS … or maybe some of the saner, respectful NRA members actually displayed the ‘common decency’ of just not attending this obtuse and poorly timed gathering while funerals continue in Buffalo, NY and the bodies remain warm from the carnage in Uvalde, TX.

    DCSCA (a5ee3b)

  111. 106,

    Re-read my comment – this time without splitting hairs. To make it easy for you, it was a general statement about how at the end of the year, especially at the elementary level, there is happy chaos. It is not unusual for there to be breaks in the protocol, given that parents frequently come on campus to thank teachers, give them gifts, and/or pick up their children early because they have to leave on vacation. Office staff can ease up on rules too, after signing them in and verifying their I.D., by letting them go directly to the classrooms. And if the family is really well known by staff (very visible, PTA members, field trip chaperones, classroom helpers) the rules might be relaxed even more. The teacher propped her door open to grab her cell phone. I doubt that she would have done that earlier in the school year. Again, my point is that it is not unusual to become lax at the very end of the school year.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  112. @104. ‘It’s society’s fault.’ Even the WSJ editorial board, of all places, tried to pitch that. Won’t work on gun nuts.

    DCSCA (a5ee3b)

  113. following simple lockdown protocol makes all the debate about guns and what cops did later largely irrelevant

    No, it really doesn’t. Not at all.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  114. Gun cultists: “We need to turn schools into fortresses with armed guards and only one way in or out. They can’t be open places like you remember them, because things have changed!”

    The rest of us: “Okay, things have changed, so maybe we should stop making it so easy for anyone at all to acquire high-powered weapons that kill a lot of people in a short time, and that didn’t exist when the Second Amendment was written.”

    Gun cultists: “That’s sacrilege! You just want to rob us of our freedom!”

    Radegunda (7bb925)

  115. SteveG, this isn’t an individual action problem. Knowing very little about you I feel pretty confident thag society is safe with that gun in your possession.

    This is a collective action problem.

    Time123 (645526)

  116. In the crazy man vs a roomful of 10-year-olds contest, it is not clear to me that any rifle is better than a semi-auto handgun. The latter is easier to maneuver and harder to grab. Once 5 or so 10yos have hold of you, they are going to win. Further, for close quarters, an edged-weapon is probably better still. Say, a razor-sharp katana.

    Banning certain weapons is just a feel-good action, solving nothing while restricting liberty. I think what is needed is a serious interview (something like the El Al interview) before one can get a license to purchase guns. But then, the state will try to weed out political opponents along with the crazies (which to them are all the same thing). So, not sure how to safeguard liberty and the public at the same time.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  117. No, it really doesn’t. Not at all.
    Dana (2c7c1d) — 5/28/2022 @ 12:49 pm

    i’m not sure you know what lockdown procedures are these days

    you don’t get lax with them for any reason, that’s the point

    a couple of years ago, the school called me to pick up my kid who took ill suddenly

    i live near the school and know every staff member, and got there in five minutes

    when I arrived, they were in the middle of s lockdown drill

    i couldn’t get in, made eye contact with several staff members inside who knew why I was there

    they ignored me for fifteen minutes until the drill was over, as they should have

    JF (e44c58)

  118. The rest of us: “Okay, things have changed, so maybe we should stop making it so easy for anyone at all to acquire high-powered weapons that kill a lot of people in a short time, and that didn’t exist when the Second Amendment was written.”

    Gun cultists: “That’s sacrilege! You just want to rob us of our freedom!”

    Radegunda (7bb925) — 5/28/2022 @ 12:54 pm

    “High-powered weapons that kill a lot of people in a short time”–what a hilariously vague rejoinder, coupled with a giant torched strawman so massive that the DSP satellites are picking up the heat signature.

    If you think a 5.56 “assault rifle” can cause a lot of damage, you’d be horrified at what a .357 magnum revolver is capable of doing.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  119. Banning certain weapons is just a feel-good action, solving nothing while restricting liberty.

    Except it’s not.

    DCSCA (76dd8d)

  120. #114, my quibble would be “acquire high-powered weapons that kill a lot of people in a short time”….which probably could be applied to any semi-automatic rifle or pistol. I think banning all of those is not feasible, so we’re asked to ban weapons with some cosmetic features…like pistol grips and flash supressors. Maybe such bans reduce some “coolness factor” and maybe the alternatives are not quite as easy to shoot rapidly, but we’re kind of talking about shooting fish in a barrel (not to be insensitive). Reducing magazine capacity seems reasonable but understand that someone looking for body count will just bring more magazines.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  121. “the symptom of a society that’s sick and rotten throughout its foundation”

    It’s still pretty rare and a small percent of total homicides. If only the Left got so exercised about what is going on weekly in Chicago. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still intolerable and we need to do everything in our power to identify troubled individuals and restrict their access as best we can (Red Flag, Background checks, age limits). Broken and dysfunctional homes are a harder nut to crack. Yes, Columbine showed the path to infamy for teens that saw no value to life….psychopaths. We have a social media incubator…mix in violent imagery and games….maybe some bullying or isolation…..and less opportunities…..and parents overwhelmed….and we have the new reality. There’s no going back in time….we’ve created this….we have to choose what we want.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  122. Except it’s not.

    “This isn’t argument. This is contradiction!”

    –Monty Python, “The Argument Clinic”

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  123. What does conservative columnist George Will think Biden has gotten right? After spending much of his column criticizing Biden’s mistakes, Will comes to two substantial Biden achievements:

    “Giving” $53 billion – and that is only through September, 2022, to non-taxpaying, non-U.S. citizens ain’t much to brag about- especially from an old, 20th century, Reagan era, fiscally conservative weenie like Will— which is why those and other no Trump, anti-populist pundits, once embedded in the tail that used to wagged the dog– are out of favor and irrelevant in the 21st century.

    DCSCA (76dd8d)

  124. @122. There is no argument. 😉

    =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (76dd8d)

  125. “i’m not sure you know what lockdown procedures are these days”

    When did the school go into lockdown?

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  126. Will has stepped into far too many curveballs. His head has to hurt.

    mg (8cbc69)

  127. How long until they come for my 22 pellet gun?

    mg (8cbc69)

  128. Old Joe is no LBJ or Harry Truman. With 45 years of government swamp service, he should know how to twist arms, cut deals and get what he wants done, even w/the margins he has– but he does have them.

    He’s merely incompetent:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cflpNLjhi0s

    “You’re everything we’ve come to expect from years of government training.” – Zed [Rip Torn] ‘Men In Black’ 1997

    DCSCA (76dd8d)

  129. When did the school go into lockdown?
    Davethulhu (ee3282) — 5/28/2022 @ 1:45 pm

    the teacher reported a man with a gun outside the school, and the incident at the funeral home occurred well before then

    your lockdown procedures start there, whether you actually went into lockdown or not

    but keep trying to make it complicated

    JF (e44c58)

  130. “ what a hilariously vague rejoinder,</blockquote
    That wasn't a "rejoinder."
    And where's the "strawman"? Are you denying that an average person today can get firearms that kill more people in a shorter time than those available when the 2A was framed?
    I've summarized the arguments of the 2A absolutists (some of whom have received money from the NRA): They are in fact saying that we need to make schools more like prisons in response to things that have changed over the past few decades. But if anyone suggests that those changes might call for adjustment of the rules for acquiring firearms, they treat the idea like a great outrage against all that is holy.

    If fortifying schools is the only acceptable response to an increase in mass shootings, what about massacres in grocery stores? Nightclubs? Music festivals? Shopping malls? Do we need to change the way we do other ordinary things, but it's inconceivable to change or any way limit the possession of firearms, because that's the one truly sacred right?
    Some people appear to believe so.

    Radegunda (7bb925)

  131. Block quote ends right after “blockquote”

    Radegunda (7bb925)

  132. I’ve summarized the arguments of the 2A absolutists (some of whom have received money from the NRA)

    This is really the worst sort of fallacy, ad hominum by association with The Other. Nearly every 2A denier has gotten money from 2A denier organizations too.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  133. How long until they come for my 22 pellet gun?

    How many massacres of schoolchildren and grocery shoppers and concertgoers does it take for a person to realize that this slippery-slope argument against the slightest restriction on firearms possession is really quite callous?

    Radegunda (7bb925)

  134. Clearly we need to remove access to weapons to a wider group of people. Currently felons, spouse-beaters, drug addicts and the insane are supposed to be unable to buy guns. Although what a drug addict is these days is hard to know. A licensing regime that wasn’t co-opted by Statists, or gamed by haters, might be the way to go, passing 98% of applicants while weeding out the criminally discontented. But it’s not clear that such a system wouldn’t become mostly denial in places.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  135. And where’s the “strawman”?

    Gun cultists: “That’s sacrilege! You just want to rob us of our freedom!”

    Are you denying that an average person today can get firearms that kill more people in a shorter time than those available when the 2A was framed?

    They’ve been able to do that for decades. Revolvers weren’t around when the 2A was framed, either.

    I’ve summarized the arguments of the 2A absolutists

    You’ve parroted the dumb pejorative that the left likes to fling. There’s no reason any conservative should take anything after that at face value.

    They are in fact saying that we need to make schools more like prisons in response to things that have changed over the past few decades.

    That started up right after Columbine. In fact, Robb Elementary was the same way, and would have stayed that way if it hadn’t been through a propped-open door.

    But if anyone suggests that those changes might call for adjustment of the rules for acquiring firearms, they treat the idea like a great outrage against all that is holy.

    Oh, so now it’s firearms as a whole? Not just “high-powered weapons”?

    If fortifying schools is the only acceptable response to an increase in mass shootings, what about massacres in grocery stores? Nightclubs? Music festivals? Shopping malls? Do we need to change the way we do other ordinary things, but it’s inconceivable to change or any way limit the possession of firearms, because that’s the one truly sacred right?
    Some people appear to believe so.

    I’m not interested in living in a society of post-modern feudalism where only the elect get to own the means for their self-defense.

    The acceptable response to an epidemic of mass shootings is to change the culture of nihilism and targeted alienation that’s grown increasingly dominant ever since the New Left gained political ascendancy 50 years ago. It requires building stable, high-trust communities and tearing down atomization. But that requires a lot of actual work, and it’s far easier to just pass the next pointless law, and then act surprised when it doesn’t stop what it was intended to stop.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  136. Again, if you ban weapons from people instead of people from weapons, you will find yourself on just that slippery slope. A revolver with speed-loaders can do as much damage. And probably some swords.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  137. How many massacres of schoolchildren and grocery shoppers and concertgoers does it take for a person to realize that this slippery-slope argument against the slightest restriction on firearms possession is really quite callous?

    Radegunda (7bb925) — 5/28/2022 @ 2:09 pm

    Are you aware of how many laws there are which restrict firearm purchase and ownership are on the books, at both the federal and state level?

    Contrary to your implication, gun ownership isn’t a free-for-all. And in a nation where gun ownership is legal for even the poorest individual, a nation of 330 MILLION people and growing is going to be increasingly likely to have incidents where people are killed with firearms. And yet, in a nation of that size, about 15,000 people a year are killed by someone with a firearm. Even in the most violent urban cesspools, getting killed by someone with a firearm is a statistical anomaly.

    Turning schools in to fortresses isn’t the solution to the issue of gun violence. But neither is whatever the latest gun control panacea the left is pimping, either.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  138. Nothing says ban assault rifles like cops being afraid to confront a shooter who has one killing children.

    asset (2c9c64)

  139. Nothing says ban assault rifles like cops being afraid to confront a shooter who has one killing children.

    asset (2c9c64) — 5/28/2022 @ 2:26 pm

    The Border Patrol officer who actually engaged the bad guy and helped stopped the shooting was using a shotgun his barber gave to him when he was in the middle of getting a haircut.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  140. Whether you call it an assault rifle or something else, a bullet fired from an AR-15 does serious damage to the human body. To me, it’s why there should be some degree training/testing before taking possession of such a lethal instrument.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  141. “the teacher reported a man with a gun outside the school, and the incident at the funeral home occurred well before then

    Not sure what “well before then” means to you, but there’s only 5 minutes between the shooter crashing and the shooter entering the school, and only 3 minutes between the teacher seeing the shooter and him entering the school. You also left out some important details. I wonder why.

    At 11:28, the shooter crashes his car.
    Also at 11:28, the teacher runs back to a class to grab her phone, presumably to report the crash
    Also at 11:28, the two guys from the funeral home start to approach the crash, get shot at, and retreat
    At 11:30, the teacher returns with her phone, calls 911 to report the crash and man with a gun
    At 11:31, the school resource officer shows up, drives past the shooter (who is hiding), then mistakes the teacher for the shooter.

    The timeline doesn’t cover what happens to the teacher or resource officer next.

    Also at 11:31, the shooter emerges and starts shooting at the school. Police arrive at the funeral home
    At 11:32, more shooting
    At 11:33, shooter enters the school

    Curiously we don’t have a transcript of the teacher’s call to 911, even though we do have transcripts of the children calling in.

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  142. “The Border Patrol officer who actually engaged the bad guy and helped stopped the shooting was using a shotgun his barber gave to him when he was in the middle of getting a haircut.”

    There were 4 border patrol officers in the tactical stack that engaged the shooter. Were they all using borrowed shotguns?

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  143. @137 The 18 year old misfit legally bought his killing machines and bullets on his 18 birthday despite all the laws you say we have. This is worrying I have just heard a news report on the radio about internet chatter about attacking the gun store that sold the ar-15s.

    asset (2c9c64)

  144. Whether you call it an assault rifle or something else, a bullet fired from an AR-15 does serious damage to the human body. To me, it’s why there should be some degree training/testing before taking possession of such a lethal instrument.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/28/2022 @ 2:29 pm

    The idea that the military’s qualification program has been brought up by some, but a lot of people would be shocked at how little is required to actually qualify on the M-16 when you join the military. When I was enlisted, qualifying was hitting 20 out of 40, and that’s just getting lead on the silhouette, not hitting small groups. Plus, very few in the military actually get range time more than once a year unless they’re already hobby shooters.

    The average Alabama redneck or Texas farmer probably has more range time and practice than even the local police force.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  145. @137 The 18 year old misfit legally bought his killing machines and bullets on his 18 birthday despite all the laws you say we have. This is worrying I have just heard a news report on the radio about internet chatter about attacking the gun store that sold the ar-15s.

    asset (2c9c64) — 5/28/2022 @ 2:38 pm

    Hey, if you want to make the argument that non-socially conformative wierdos shouldn’t be allowed to buy guns, I’m more than willing to take that in to consideration. I have a feeling you wouldn’t like the ultimate result of that, however.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  146. “The Border Patrol officer who actually engaged the bad guy and helped stopped the shooting was using a shotgun his barber gave to him when he was in the middle of getting a haircut.”

    There were 4 border patrol officers in the tactical stack that engaged the shooter. Were they all using borrowed shotguns?

    Davethulhu (ee3282) — 5/28/2022 @ 2:31 pm

    Are you upset that one of them used a borrowed weapon to help stop a shooting?

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  147. #109 Kevin – Usually, voter give credit to presidents when unemployment is low. Will’s point, as I understand it, is that they aren’t, this time, even as they aren’t giving credit to Biden for helping to restore NATO.

    To extend the argument a little, the inflation that is hitting the world now comes mostly from the lockdown in China, and Putin’s attack on Ukraine. Given that there is little Biden can do about those two things, in the short run, I would rather have a strong job market with the inflation, because that’s good for America, net.

    (It is not in my personal interest. As someone on a fixed income, I am better off with lower inflation, and a weaker job market. Is that true for you, too?)

    Will summarized his thinking in his final paragraph:

    If he [Biden] seeks reelection, he will need an opponent so ghastly that voters can respond as the New York Sun did with its five-word 1904 endorsement of President Theodore Roosevelt’s reelection: “THEODORE! With all thy faults.”

    So, if the Trumpistas inflict the New York conman on us again, and Biden is his opponent, Will is likely to endorse Biden, with all his faults.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  148. “Are you upset that one of them used a borrowed weapon to help stop a shooting?”

    I looked it up and he wasn’t part of the team who took out the shooter. What’s the point of your anecdote?

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  149. Is Putin running out of Russian soldiers?

    Under the new law, signed by Russian dictator Vladimir Putin on May 28, Russians under 50 are entitled to sign their first contract for military service. Prior to that, the age limit was under 40.

    That’s almost unprecedented in Russian history.

    (Some joker produced this picture of the some new Russian recruits.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  150. I looked it up and he wasn’t part of the team who took out the shooter. What’s the point of your anecdote?

    Davethulhu (ee3282) — 5/28/2022 @ 2:47 pm

    The point was to mock asset’s dumb remark, especially considering a branch of cops your guys’s side is constantly complaining about for inhumane treatment was the group that actually stopped the shooting, not the local law enforcement.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  151. Guns don’t kill people. Gun owners kill people.

    No banning of certain guns. Pre-approval of certain gun owners.

    A national registry of Trusted Gun Owners identical to the Department of Homeland Security’s Trusted Traveler Program. If you want to possess certain guns or ammunition, you need to have been pre-approved just the same as if you wanted to enter the United States from abroad with only your palm-print.

    You may scream now.

    nk (89f869)

  152. Dana (2c7c1d) — 5/28/2022 @ 12:45 pm

    Very well put.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  153. Here’s a Politico interview with two academics who have written a book on mass shooting attacks in the US.

    Like the interviewer, Melanie Warner, I found this detail striking:

    POLITICO: I was struck by a detail in your book about one of the perpetrators you investigated. Minutes before he opened fire, you report that he called a behavior health facility. Is there always some form of reaching out or communication of intent before it happens?

    Peterson: You don’t see it as often with older shooters who often go into their workplaces. But for young shooters, it’s almost every case.

    I haven’t read their book, so can’t say much more.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  154. Texas native Jamie Foxx joined the chorus of voices wondering how something like the school massacre in Uvalde could happen in the United States of America. The comedian, who himself was recently involved in subduing a man who attacked Dave Chappelle onstage, posted 16 Uvalde victims’ photos and wrote:

    Little angels my heart goes out to ur families…Never thought I would live in A society a “Christian Society” where they would let little children die over and over again and still not change any laws…if the people in this country are leaders and so-called Christians…if they are going to heaven…I’LL PASS!!!!! #thedevilisbusy

    Well, Jaime, I’ll agree with you there–when your side came to dominate the nation’s culture, it gradually ceased to be a “Christian Society” and school shootings became a lot more common.

    “If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first.”

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  155. @151. No banning of certain guns. Pre-approval of certain gun owners.

    https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/banned-guns/

    DCSCA (a53ea3)

  156. @138. Nothing says ban assault rifles like cops being afraid to confront a shooter who has one killing children.

    Yep.

    DCSCA (a53ea3)

  157. The idea that the military’s qualification program has been brought up by some, but a lot of people would be shocked at how little is required to actually qualify on the M-16 when you join the military.

    I don’t doubt that, but personnel have already gone through vetting and testing before being allowed to join.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  158. Quinn Hillyer is right:

    Just as Republicans should expel from their caucus Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia and Paul Gosar of Arizona for repeated associations with white nationalists or their rhetoric, so too should Democrats evict Omar — not for her Islamic faith but for her fellow traveling with Islamist extremists.

    Enough is long past enough.

    As he almost always is.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  159. The idea that the military’s qualification program has been brought up by some, but a lot of people would be shocked at how little is required to actually qualify on the M-16 when you join the military.

    I don’t doubt that, but personnel have already gone through vetting and testing before being allowed to join.

    Moreover, the ammunition is locked up and their entire possession and use of the gun is under 24/7 supervision by their officers and NCOs.

    Stanley Kubrick aside, what I’ve noticed about military base shootings is that they did not use their issue weapons. They used civilian guns that they had bought on the outside.

    nk (89f869)

  160. At the end of the day, Queens gonna queen. Don’t be surprised if his braintrust starts pushing him as the “less hater” option than DeSantis:

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/27/us/texas-school-shooting/trump-gun-control

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  161. Jon Voight, Outspoken GOP Supporter, Calls For ‘Proper Qualifications for Gun Ownership’ After Uvalde Shooting -Variety.com

    From the ‘land of make-believe,’ a reality check:

    ‘Jon Voight is an award-winning American actor who has starred in such films as Deliverance, The Odessa File, Transformers, Pearl Harbor and Coming Home, a film for which his portrayal of a returning paraplegic Vietnam veteran would garner him the Academy Award for Best Actor. In more recent years, he has regained notice for his portrayal of Mickey Donovan in the Showtime series Ray Donovan, for which he received consecutive Emmy Award nominations. He also is the father of Academy Award-winning actress Angelina Jolie.’

    Jon Voight can be seen using the following weapons in the following films and television series:

    http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Jon_Voight

    DCSCA (41bb57)

  162. I don’t doubt that, but personnel have already gone through vetting and testing before being allowed to join.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/28/2022 @ 3:39 pm

    To a certain extent, but guys still fall through the cracks. We were briefed during the early years of GWOT about gang members joining up to get training in small unit tactics before going back home to get their homies up to speed. One PJ I knew told me about a tour on a carrier that he did, and how the ship was full members from various gang factions.

    They aren’t a large presence, but if they had a juvie record and it got expunged when they turned 18, it wasn’t hard to walk in to a recruiter’s office and get signed up, especially in those days when the Army and Marines were screaming for people.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  163. FWO, if liberal godless culture is to blame if expect to see higher rates of mass shootings in places with more culture like that. Western EU has lower marriage rates and lower rates of church attendance and much lower rates of mass shootings.

    The data doesn’t support your theory.

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  164. Not sure what “well before then” means to you, but there’s only 5 minutes between the shooter crashing and the shooter entering the school, and only 3 minutes between the teacher seeing the shooter and him entering the school.
    Davethulhu (ee3282) — 5/28/2022 @ 2:30 pm

    the report I read, and posted to an earlier thread here, said there were 12 minutes between the incident at the funeral home and when he entered the school

    but, let’s accept 5 minutes

    that’s still plenty of time to lock down the school

    JF (026b61)

  165. If you can put aside the fact that Mother Jones put this database of mass shootings together, it’s highly informative.
    First, they the use the FBI definition, which is “single attack in which four or more victims were killed”.
    Two things that popped out for me. There was a disturbingly high number of (1) shooters who had prior signs of mental illness and (2) shooters whose preferred weaponry were semiautomatic rifles such as AR-15s.
    64 of the 128 shooters had prior signs of mental illness. There were a good number of “unclear” and null fields, and only 17 listed as “no”.
    92 of the 128 shooters used assault rifles and/or semiautomatic handguns and/or semiautomatic rifles.
    This is why I favor red flag laws and some degree of training/testing for AR-15 style firearms, maybe even for semiautomatic handguns.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  166. Usually, voter give credit to presidents when unemployment is low. Will’s point, as I understand it, is that they aren’t, this time, even as they aren’t giving credit to Biden for helping to restore NATO.

    Your attempted conflation is false. And anyone can get unemployment down by printing money — it’s been done before — but it ends with inflation, then recession and job loss as the inflation is fought. Of course, they can choose instead to keep pumping out money “to help with inflation” but that ends in tears.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  167. Will is NOT saying that Biden is doing a good job on the economy. Read it again.

    “Similarly, a tight labor market is the best anti-poverty program, and a downward distributor of wealth — but not when inflation more than erases wage gains.

    This is criticism of the Emperor’s New Clothes.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  168. @79 You’re illustrating the mistake Harris is making. The general argument is that an armed populace is a check on tyrannical government. And you give that away by referencing groups of people.

    Harris gives it away by saying there’s no way you’ll get back all of the guns.

    This general argument is debatable but it’s not the one Harris is using. He’s using the straw man that pro-2a individuals believe they can effectively resist a tyrannical government by themselves relying on their personal cache of weapons.

    Again, no one seriously says that an armed individual will present much of an obstacle to a tyrannical government by themselves. We routinely see the opposite. Misrepresenting this argument helps undermine any credibility your average anti-2a person might have. As does dismissing the argument about police response time. We routinely see evidence of this as well.

    frosty (d2845b)

  169. The Swiss seem to believe that a nation of armed individuals can be effective in resisting invasion, or other military domination.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  170. Limiting access to weapons designed to efficiently kill large numbers of people quickly leaves plenty of weapons for hunting and home defense. (E.g. shotguns, handguns with limited ammo capacity, bolt action rifles). Could also increase penalties for people who don’t properly secure their weapons.

    Number of ways to do this and it may result is lower body counts at these tragedies.

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  171. The real question “how did we get here?”

    In 1960, we had very little of this, even though there were more households with guns back then. When some crazy person (Richard Speck, Charles Whitman, Charlie Manson, etc) killed a bunch of people, it made national news, but was never seen as part of a pattern. When did it become a pattern, and why?

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  172. @170: I agree that ab AR-15 is inappropriate for urban home defense. But a Glock is about right — easy to maneuver down halls, and not indiscriminate, where a shotgun fails both those tasks. But in a rural setting, defense may require some range and an AR-15 starts to look better. Note that Uvalde is not urban.

    I don’t seem much difference among weapons for the committed active shooter. He will make do with what he can get, so to me, any solution must involve blocking some people from all guns. A pump-action shotgun is no less lethal in a classroom.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  173. FWO, if liberal godless culture is to blame if expect to see higher rates of mass shootings in places with more culture like that. Western EU has lower marriage rates and lower rates of church attendance and much lower rates of mass shootings.

    The data doesn’t support your theory.

    Time123 (9b76f4) — 5/28/2022 @ 4:50 pm

    Western Europe never had a centuries-long tradition of firearm ownership, either, so the comparison doesn’t really fit. I pointed out initially that we’ve long been a nation that has allowed even the poorest person to buy a gun, yet these types of incidents seem to be growing more common only in the last 23 years. If availability of firearms was the key to that, these would have taken off long before Columbine.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  174. People have made the analogy between driving and gun ownership. We say that one is a privilege and one is a right, although sometimes which is which isn’t clear. A illegal alien can get a driver’s license in California, but cannot own a gun.

    In fact, driving is a right that can be withheld for cause. Physical or mental inability and poor behavior can get one’s right/privilege suspended, although the assumption is generally to allow the license after a certain age. Assuming that the granting of a license is reasonable similar, with misuse causing at least a suspension, I have no problem with gun licensing.

    But I expect that it would become a tool to oppress, just as “may-issue” CCW permitting regimes are generally “will-not-issue” in practice.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  175. It’s fair to point out that it’s not just access to guns, but access to guns is part of it. Also, guns have gotten a LOT better over the years. The AR15 is a much more efficient killer of men than our grandfathers weapons of war.

    Time123 (645526)

  176. I don’t seem much difference among weapons for the committed active shooter. He will make do with what he can get, so to me, any solution must involve blocking some people from all guns. A pump-action shotgun is no less lethal in a classroom.

    Kevin M (eca4d2) — 5/28/2022 @ 5:23 pm

    In both cases of Newtown and the Colorado STEM shooting, the perpetrators took their parents’ guns, and in the case of the latter, used handguns. In the case of the latter as well, the shooters were separately bum-rushed by other students and the security guard, respectively.

    I certainly don’t expect a bunch of terrified elementary school kids to dogpile a shooter, but regardless, in an incident like that, these people aren’t expecting resistance, and just the act of fighting back can be enough to convince them to go elsewhere. In the military, we were taught in active shooter situations to lock down, but if the room is breached to start throwing things at the shooter until you could get close enough to attack the shooter yourself, or to at least mess up his targeting enough to compel him move on. I’d typically keep a Leatherman in my desk so I had a weapon at hand if something like that ever occurred.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  177. Kevin, we could try registering guns, and ammo, and making the last legal owner liable for any harms caused by misuse of the gun, with a right to offer reasonable precautions as a defense.

    Time123 (645526)

  178. Western Europe never had a centuries-long tradition of firearm ownership,

    And when they tried to impose their rules on the colonies, where a rifle was needed to travel in many places, it became a trigger point for the eventual revolution:

    Just after the Redcoats’ attempt to seize the arms of the rebel militia at Lexington and Concord in 1775, Gen. Thomas Gage ordered all the inhabitants of Boston to turn in their arms at Faneuil Hall for temporary safekeeping. When the people complied, troops seized the firearms, never to return them.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1995/05/31/when-the-redcoats-confiscated-guns/e38d0810-af85-4949-8d93-3da746601e65/

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  179. @177: I disagree. It would be like registering cars and making the last legal owner responsible for their use in a bank robbery.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  180. All of these attempts to put liability on the “owner” or otherwise force him to pay through the nose to have a weapon are INTENDED to discourage gun ownership by the responsible. They do nothing at all to discourage or prevent possession by the irresponsible, mad or criminal. That’s just the beard.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  181. They are trying this in the SF area — putting taxes, liability insurance requirements and other encumbrances on gun ownership. This will at least disarm the poor, who probably need them more.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  182. List of mass shootings in the United States in 2022

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2022

    There have been three more mass shootings in America since Uvalde.

    DCSCA (41bb57)

  183. It’s intended to make ppl be more responsible with their guns. Unlike a car, the intended purpose of a gun is mostly killing. Except for target guns (which aren’t nearly as dangerous) guns are weapons designed to kill. If you’re going to own one you need to keep it from being used irresponsibly, like the gun used in the recent MI school shooting was.

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  184. “They are trying this in the SF area — putting taxes, liability insurance requirements and other encumbrances on gun ownership. This will at least disarm the poor, who probably need them more.”

    A 100 day waiting period on non bolt action – non revolver would have stopped this. Also enacting severe criminal liabilities on leaving weapons free where they can be stolen = (15 months minimum, no parole) and proof of secure vault to store weapons before purchasing. Also, a drivers ed like series of three weeks of courses before purchasing any non revolver, non bolt action rifle and the required purchase of liability insurance, would be useful.

    Non of these infringe on anyone’s rights, its used in many facets of our lives already.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  185. guns are weapons designed to kill

    So are knives, crossbows, bow and arrows, rocks, axes, hammers, swords, sling shots, frying pans, cars buses, trucks, vans, airplanes, boats, bricks, water, bathtubs, razor blades, rubber duckies, marbles, fire works etc

    EPWJ (ded958)

  186. It’s intended to make ppl be more responsible with their guns.

    No, that’s just what they tell the gullible.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  187. A 100 day waiting period on non bolt action – non revolver would have stopped this.

    A woman who needs a gun because her ex-husband keeps showing up and beating her can’t wait 100 days. Or even 3.

    Also enacting severe criminal liabilities on leaving weapons free where they can be stolen = (15 months minimum, no parole) and proof of secure vault to store weapons before purchasing.

    A gun that cannot be accessed when needed is as bad as no gun. And now you are victim-blaming.

    Also, a drivers ed like series of three weeks of courses before purchasing any non revolver, non bolt action rifle and the required purchase of liability insurance, would be useful.

    I’d go further and mandate such classes in high school.

    None of these infringe on anyone’s rights, its used in many facets of our lives already.

    Yes, they do. They simply don’t infringe on your right not to own a gun. They also assume everyone lives in a big city, where police might, maybe, show up to protect you. Not that they have to.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  188. The handgun was always the equalizer. So, when you see a basketball player or football lineman talking about how guns should be outlawed, understand where they are coming from — they like the inequality.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  189. There have been three more mass shootings in America since Uvalde.

    Definitions matter. I swear but they’d list shooting bottles off a tree stump as mass shootings if they could get away with it.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  190. Usually, voter give credit to presidents when unemployment is low. Will’s point, as I understand it, is that they aren’t, this time, even as they aren’t giving credit to Biden for helping to restore NATO.

    To extend the argument a little, the inflation that is hitting the world now comes mostly from the lockdown in China, and Putin’s attack on Ukraine. Given that there is little Biden can do about those two things, in the short run, I would rather have a strong job market with the inflation, because that’s good for America, net.

    (It is not in my personal interest. As someone on a fixed income, I am better off with lower inflation, and a weaker job market. Is that true for you, too?)

    Will summarized his thinking in his final paragraph:

    If he [Biden] seeks reelection, he will need an opponent so ghastly that voters can respond as the New York Sun did with its five-word 1904 endorsement of President Theodore Roosevelt’s reelection: “THEODORE! With all thy faults.”

    So, if the Trumpistas inflict the New York conman on us again, and Biden is his opponent, Will is likely to endorse Biden, with all his faults.

    Jim Miller (406a93) — 5/28/2022 @ 2:45 pm

    You ignore the giant elephant in the room which is Biden deliberately exacerbating inflationary pressures with leftwing boondoggle spending while simultaneously crippling energy production and supply.

    Now why would you ignore that obvious issue 5hat hits every economic sector and destroys the middle class from within?

    NJRob (16b287)

  191. Kevin

    A revolver is all you need. Please tired straw men arguments, a pump shotgun, three revolvers, no waiting period.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  192. What do you suppose the actuarial liability of a handgun is? The chance that it will be used criminally by someone other than the owner is very very small. The chance that it will be used criminally by the owner is no doubt larger, but I’m willing to bet that few insurers cover that.

    So, the average person’s liability policy cost should be 10s of dollars a year.

    The chance of a given gun being stolen in a given year is somewhat less than 1 in 1,000. That it is then used to kill someone is hard to say, but there are 400,000,000 million guns in the US and 20,000 firearms murders a year, so the random chance of any one gun being involved in a murder is 1 in 20,000.

    But that just won’t do, as it doesn’t discourage bun owners enough, so it’s “regulated” much higher.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  193. @85 You just said rubber duckies are weapons designed to kill. How drunk are you?

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  194. A revolver is all you need. Please tired straw men arguments, a pump shotgun, three revolvers, no waiting period.

    Three revolvers and a pump shotgun could kill everyone in any given room. You have solved nothing while restricting rights.

    The problem is not the guns, but the person with the gun. Who probably won’t care about your rules anyway.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  195. Indeed. Killing Keystone-XL told energy producers they were in the wrong business and should invest in something else. And they did. Many oil producers are now running the oil out of their existing wells and paying out to stockholders what would normally be reinvested. As they should.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  196. A gun that cannot be accessed when needed is as bad as no gun. And now you are victim-blaming.

    You need to point out where I blamed the victims?

    “Yes, they do. They simply don’t infringe on your right not to own a gun. They also assume everyone lives in a big city, where police might, maybe, show up to protect you. Not that they have to”

    Nothing I said or suggested infringes on the rights to own a gun.

    The access to a gun is financial – you have the right to enjoy the 2nd amendment if you can afford it. Making more lethal weapons have a few regulations is not infringing, its justified.

    We agree that a course needs to be taken, but only when trying to access high-capacity weapons. No one is prevented from owning one. And the course needs to be three weeks 10 hours per day, 6 days a week. For EVERY purchase, of the higher capacity weapon.

    Revolvers and bolt action rifles, and pump shot guns were fine for home defense until 2005 (over 400 years). When cheap semi auto rifles were being offered at ridiculously low prices in the last 20 years, it needs some fine tuning.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  197. cheap semi auto rifles were being offered at ridiculously low prices

    $800 to $2000 is ridiculously low? Should only rich white people be able to afford guns?

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  198. What I’m getting from this conversation is that school shootings are going to keep happening and nothing is going to be done to stop them.

    Nic (896fdf)

  199. “Indeed. Killing Keystone-XL told energy producers they were in the wrong business and should invest in something else. And they did. Many oil producers are now running the oil out of their existing wells and paying out to stockholders what would normally be reinvested. As they should”

    No one is quitting the oil business, in fact the rig counts are rising. Oil is about to explode in investment, research and opportunity. Oil wells run dry all the time, state permits are 75 percent of the usable land for oil exploration. Biden has raised the cost of oil thats all, which of course will have a lasting impact yet to be seen

    EPWJ (ded958)

  200. Kevin,

    They should be about 10K each

    EPWJ (ded958)

  201. Odd arguments:

    A person whose gun is stolen should be blamed for any subsequent crime, but a gun store owner who willingly sells a weapon to someone, that he can choose not to sell to, should be held harmless.

    A pump action shotgun is less lethal than a small caliber rifle in a closed space.

    Guns should be taken out of the hands of honest, law-abiding people because they might fall into the hands of criminals who don’t care that they are banned. Or something.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  202. They should be about 10K each

    Again, only for the rich who usually have prompt police response times from cops who call them “Sir.”. Gotcha.

    But that would make them more of a theft magnet.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  203. “What I’m getting from this conversation is that school shootings are going to keep happening and nothing is going to be done to stop them.”

    Planes crash, cars flip over due to mechanical problems. As Dana pointed out – a door was left open, during a forgivable moment.

    What we did is allow a highly lethal above military grade weapon to be sold to an untrained and unprepared public. The AR15 was designed to be a military weapon. Its rate of fire, magazine capacity, muzzle velocity, shock absorption, ease of ultra fast reloading, is greater than all military rifles used by the army until Vietnam.

    Everyone who is willing to take the required education and financial responsibility can own one.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  204. Not an argument Kevin. They are already a theft magnet. They are also an impulse buy, most hunters frown on them, most people never fire them, they don’t own land or join the local gun clubs which many don’t allow these type rifles as they tear up the facility.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  205. What I’m getting from this conversation is that John Adams had it right when he said, “Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious society. It is wholly unfit for any other.”

    The destruction of the family, the attack on Christian faith in the public sphere and encouraging people to act on their mental illnesses is what is harming society.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  206. The destruction of the family, the attack on Christian faith in the public sphere and encouraging people to act on their mental illnesses is what is harming society.

    Very true

    EPWJ (ded958)

  207. As far as we can tell nobody is shooting up schools because they are an atheist or trans.

    Nic (896fdf)

  208. https://nypost.com/2022/05/28/department-of-navy-releases-climate-change-strategy/

    We can see yet again where Biden and his administration’s focus and priorities lie. And it isn’t with the American people.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  209. https://thefederalist.com/2022/05/25/biden-admin-k-12-schools-must-put-boys-in-girls-bathrooms-to-get-federal-lunch-money/

    K-12 schools must allow boys into girls’ private areas to obtain federal funds for lunches, breakfasts, and snacks, the Biden administration announced this month. A U.S. Department of Education spokesman told The Federalist the Biden administration’s press releases from several agencies announcing this policy will be followed by formal rulemaking in June.

    Once again showing the Biden administration’s priorities aren’t the American people’s priorities.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  210. As far as we can tell nobody is shooting up schools because they are an atheist or trans.

    Nic (896fdf)

    Ummm Colorado, Sandy Hook, and Columbine – and many others

    EPWJ (ded958)

  211. @EPWJ None of them were trans, Klebold was Lutheran and culturally jewish and neither Harris or Lanza were describes as atheist.

    Nic (896fdf)

  212. “The destruction of the family, the attack on Christian faith in the public sphere and encouraging people to act on their mental illnesses is what is harming society.”

    This is why we must elect Donald Trump, the most moral and Christian man in the world.

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  213. Even if Klebold, Harris and Lanza were all upper-east-side, trans, Muslim Trotskeyites, you’d still have to show causation.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  214. @EPWJ None of them were trans, Klebold was Lutheran and culturally jewish and neither Harris or Lanza were describes as atheist.

    Nic (896fdf) — 5/28/2022 @ 10:27 pm

    Maya “Alec” McKinney, one of the Colorado STEM school shooters, is trans. Both her and the other shooter, Devon Erickson, were far-left drug addicts that hated Christians, albeit most of it was typical teenage edgelord stuff that poser “non-conformists” have been indulging in for decades.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  215. @198. ‘cheap semi auto rifles were being offered at ridiculously low prices’… “$800 to $2000 is ridiculously low? Should only rich white people be able to afford guns?”

    They’re cheaper than that:

    Average price: $118.33 As far as inexpensive goes, the most-affordable semi-automatic rifle on the market today is the Model 64F from Savage Arms. This basic setup uses a straight-blowback operating system fed by a 10-round detachable magazine.

    https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/10-budget-priced-22-rifles-under-200/#:~:text=Average%3A%20%24118.33%20As%20far%20as%20inexpensive%20goes%2C%20the,operating%20system%20fed%20by%20a%2010-round%20detachable%20magazine.

    Radical Firearms AR-15 7.62×39 Semi Auto Rifle Black
    0.0 $521.34

    https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/firearms/rifles/semi-automatic/?https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/firearms/rifles/semi-automatic/=undefined&start=0&sz=48

    And you could probably dicker at a gun show w/a seller anxious to’ unload’ inventory rather than lug it back to their store and get one for even less.

    DCSCA (988b1f)

  216. Remember the good old days when god was in our schools and negroes were not. When you could lynch uppity black people and other minorities while praying in school. This is before crt told you why the southern babtist church and southern methodist church broke away over slavery. Nobody cared what priests did to kids especially native american kids. Remember the good old days when you could put japanese americans in concentration camps for being well japs! When you could call mexicans wetbacks and treat them like sub humans and women like second class citizens. Damn we even have to let them vote now same with blaxcks and browns have to let them vote too! Yeah the good old days when you had to use a coat hanger! God in school!

    asset (2f1bb2)

  217. @FWO@215 OK, one out of the more than 200 perpetrators of school shootings since 2000 was trans. I don’t think you can say that Erickson was raised outside the Christian world. His parents did say they were praying for everyone affected by his actions and he doesn’t seem to have been particularly atheist, the main evidence of that seems to be that he said that conservative Christians were hypocrites for placing so much emphasis on one part of the old testament but not the other laws.

    What shooters seem to mostly have in common is serious mental illness (often schizophrenia type symptomology) and sometimes abuse. Saying it’s atheists and trans people is not accurate and prescribing Jesus isn’t the solution.

    Nic (896fdf)

  218. 133- says Mr. goodie 2 shoes. Penny loafers?

    mg (8cbc69)

  219. Joetard and the deep state bankers are actively destroying the country to prepare us to lose a war with China.
    Smell the coffee?

    mg (8cbc69)

  220. Time123 (2b055f) — 5/28/2022 @ 9:10 am

    I’ve been saying that there’s not much difference between the teams except the color of the jersey and you keep supporting my point.

    frosty (d2845b)

  221. Here’s an interesting piece that looks to diagnose how society is producing these mass shooters

    “Early childhood trauma seems to be the foundation, whether violence in the home, sexual assault, parental suicides, extreme bullying. Then you see the build toward hopelessness, despair, isolation, self-loathing, oftentimes rejection from peers. That turns into a really identifiable crisis point where they’re acting differently. Sometimes they have previous suicide attempts.

    What’s different from traditional suicide is that the self-hate turns against a group. They start asking themselves, “Whose fault is this?” Is it a racial group or women or a religious group, or is it my classmates? The hate turns outward. There’s also this quest for fame and notoriety.”

    Most of these mass shooters expect to be killed. They want to be killed. It’s really a murder/suicide. The researchers say it must be addressed from both ends: there needs resources to investigate when individuals are in crisis and to intervene, and mechanisms to make it harder to commit mass shootings. It’s not clear to me that this is a “trans”, CRT, BLM, illegal immigration, or Mr. Potato Head issue.

    While one can argue that religion can help with despair and self-loathing, religious people are not immune to depression or suicidal ideation. I don’t see religion as a cure-all for mass shooting (see Muslim extremists as an example). If we believe that we should intervene with mental health crises, then we need to put our money where our mouth is.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/27/stopping-mass-shooters-q-a-00035762

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  222. Let’s try this:

    Nothing I said or suggested infringes on the rights to own a gun.

    The access to voting is financial – you have the right to enjoy the right to vote if you can afford it. Making voting have a few regulations is not infringing, its justified.

    Making something cost more is most definitely an infringement on rights. The pro-abortion (even though it’s not a right) and voter-suppression (not a thing either) groups routinely make this claim and it’s one of the very few things they get right. It’s easy to do one of those for the 1st amendment too. This is such an obvious infringement that the state pays for defense attorneys and tells you that when they arrest you.

    What we really need is something like that for the 2nd. You should be able to request your free gun from the federal government like we can request masks.

    No one is prevented from owning one. And the course needs to be three weeks 10 hours per day, 6 days a week. For EVERY purchase, of the higher capacity weapon.

    Revolvers and bolt action rifles, and pump shot guns were fine for home defense until 2005 (over 400 years). When cheap semi auto rifles were being offered at ridiculously low prices in the last 20 years, it needs some fine tuning.

    EPWJ (ded958) — 5/28/2022 @ 8:16 pm

    This is why gun control never gets anywhere. The discussion quickly gets to ridiculous and conflicting demands and class issues.

    frosty (d2845b)

  223. @222 I’d wholeheartedly support this. It would be nice if it was more than a pharmacological solution though. I’d like to see more access to better counseling. More access to programs that encourage social cohesion and more thought put into funding and supporting those programs.

    That last is extremely unlikely though.

    frosty (d2845b)

  224. frosty

    its not ridiculous, these are in place in some form. Its called licensing, and in all aspects of life you need to be trained.

    Back at the time the constitution was written, everyone had firearms training, had almost daily use of a weapon. Why? Indians, Brits, and wild animals. All significant causes of death 250 years ago. This remained the case until the industrial age – when the 15% urban population of revolutionary America changed as men left the farms for the factory jobs, urban populations then swelled to 40%.

    Now we have people with zero exposure to guns, buying lethal above military grade weapons in an hour and a thousand rounds of ammo – no questions asked. No financial responsibility.

    Its costing us tens of billions a year to counter act one gun, one. That no one cared about for years, no one liked them, then thanks to hollywood, our hero worship of special forces – they exploded in sales.

    And I’m a huge supporter of the NRA, and our armed forces.

    I’m not for gun confiscation nor red flag laws, just common sense financial responsibility.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  225. @204 and @205 The AR-15 isn’t more capable than military weapons but “military grade” sounds like a made up term that’s going to be used as needed. Is the 9mm above military grade?

    Speaking for myself, or in my lived experience as the kids say, an AR-15 isn’t an impulse buy. I don’t think any firearm is. It’s not like they are on the end cap in the checkout line. I know several hunters who use them and a modified AR would be my first choice for hunting. Some women prefer them to higher caliber rifles but options vary. I know lot of people who’ve fired them. I can fire them at my gun club and there are lot of people there with them. Admittedly, pistols are more common.

    It’s sounds like now you’re either trolling the pro-2a or mocking the anti-2a people.

    I’m curious what sort of training you think would take 180 hours? And why repeating it per gun would be effective.

    frosty (d2845b)

  226. frosty,

    It is sad though, that most of the current clamoring gun control have to do with socio-political control and not for the love of our fellow Americans.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  227. clamoring for gun control has…

    EPWJ (ded958)

  228. frosty,

    The US army says different – it has a higher sustained rate of fire than the M16 = its more accurate, easier, faster to reload, lighter. Compared to the M1? no comparison.

    Its a very very poor argument and its making the foaming at the mouth liberal gun grabbers right to insist this is just you grandpa’s old lever action rifle.

    To me the AR15 and the high capacity glock handguns will be a pathway for the liberals to stay in power, and suppress all our freedoms. Just like they did with Covid.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  229. Back at the time the constitution was written, everyone had firearms training, had almost daily use of a weapon. Why? Indians, Brits, and wild animals. All significant causes of death 250 years ago.

    EPWJ (ded958) — 5/29/2022 @ 6:31 am

    The funny thing about this one is the anti-2a crowd will also claim that we’ve had more gun control and less guns at other times in history.

    frosty (d2845b)

  230. The funny thing about this one is the anti-2a crowd will also claim that we’ve had more gun control and less guns at other times in history.

    They are not anti 2A, they fear the 2A as a barrier to their quest for absolute power

    EPWJ (ded958)

  231. @229 The anti-2a crowd has been losing ground for a while now. They were in worse shape than the pro-abortion lobby before Covid and the blm riots and both of those moved the needle more. In the last year several states have become constitutional carry and I expect more to go that route.

    From what I can see here and other places online the anti-2a arguments are only getting worse.

    So, sure, we should give that lobby what they want even though they have little chance of getting it otherwise so that they don’t gain power and do what they want.

    frosty (d2845b)

  232. EPWJ (ded958) — 5/28/2022 @ 8:16 pm

    The access to a gun is financial – you have the right to enjoy the 2nd amendment if you can afford it.

    The Uvalde killer spent almost $3.500 on equipment.

    He had dropped out of high school, quite his jioob at Wendy’s two weeks before, and didn’t have his own cellphone.

    He [paid witha debiit card/

    Now

    Did he:

    A) Get money from his mother or his grandparents? (maybe to rent a place)

    B) Save up the money over half a year or longer?

    C) Steal from his family

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  233. Somebody asked Salvador Ramos if he intended to shoot up a school. He said no.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/27/us/uvalde-gunman-social-media.html

    The 18-year-old had unsuccessfully asked his sister to buy him a gun in September and then, in March, told friends in a group message that he was buying one.

    Later in March, someone was concerned enough to send him a message on Instagram asking, “Are you going to shoot up a school or something?” to which he replied,

    Red flags don’t work.

    Only the request to his sister amounts to someone giving him a green light and that worked(it would also have been illegal for her to be a straw buyer)

    Q. Did he already have the $1,800 by September or was he asking for a loan?

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  234. * errata – omitted answer

    Later in March, someone was concerned enough to send him a message on Instagram asking, “Are you going to shoot up a school or something?” to which he replied, “No” and “stop asking dumb questions,”

    The Buffalo shooter also said when questioned about his written answer to question in school where he wrote he intended murder suicide that it wasa a stupid joke.

    I guess this works like a loyalty oath.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  235. If somebody says he wants to kill people you should believe him.

    But if somebody says he does NOT want to kill people, you should not believe him.

    Red flags rely on the notion that someone will report someone if he just gives you the idea he might want to kill people, even if he denies it. That won’t work.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  236. Sammy,

    Nothings been confirmed as to how he got the weapons or even if he legally owned them. I’m reminded of the extremely poor communication from law enforcement, and the shoddy media reporting, so it will be a few weeks I think before I can trust anything. What bothers me is the possibility of violent felons (his grand parents and cousins) that he was living with and what’s going on there.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  237. EPWJ (ded958) — 5/28/2022 @ 8:47 pm

    The AR15 was designed to be a military weapon.

    Not true, according to Mike Pence.

    Its rate of fire, magazine capacity, muzzle velocity, shock absorption, ease of ultra fast reloading, is greater than all military rifles used by the army until Vietnam.

    It seems that, according to the gun lobby, it’s too low grade for the U.S. army.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  238. EPWJ (ded958) — 5/29/2022 @ 7:49 am

    Nothings been confirmed as to how he got the weapons or even if he legally owned them.

    It seems to be holding up. The dates purchased are just after he could legally buy them, aand somewhere there is a picture of a receipt for one of the rifles. The evidence is not good enough to he admitted as evidence to a court, but it has not been retracted these past few days.(Whether the debit card or the money in the bank account it was linked to, was his, is an open question. I haven;t read anything beyond the words “debit card.”

    I’m reminded of the extremely poor communication from law enforcement, and the shoddy media reporting, so it will be a few weeks I think before I can trust anything. What bothers me is the possibility of violent felons (his grand parents and cousins) that he was living with and what’s going on there.

    Grandfather was quoted in some news story that he didn’t know his grandson had bought the rifles.

    We have a god number of unanswered questons:

    1) Where did he get the funds to purchase his weapons?

    2) Which schoolroom did he enter first and where was he when?

    3) Were the two teachers in two separate classrooms?

    There were two 4th grade grade classrooms, separated by a bathroom in between them. He left one and went into the other, and that enabled one girl to smear blood from her dead or dying friend all over herself and play dead. She has some bullet fragments in her back but is afraid or doesn;t want to go to a hospital in San Antonio to have them removed.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  239. Members of his family were violent felons?

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  240. At least six people were injured on Saturday night during an exchange of gunfire in downtown Chattanooga, Tennessee, police said. – ABCNews.com

    DCSCA (49d78b)

  241. Forbes has an extended piece on taxing firearms which suggests that incentivizing one class of weapons over another would pass constitutional muster….and there is a history of taxing guns and ammunition to partially recoup the high medical costs (especially medicaid) associated with gun violence

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxnotes/2021/11/22/the-second-amendment-taxes-and-gun-control/?sh=2816f21e7f56

    The question would be at what tax rate might it become problematic? If you increase the cost of AR-15-style rifles from $1k to $10k, are you not only discouraging a commonly available weapon for self defense, are you now making it de facto not available to most citizens? Could Washington DC evade Heller by simply taxing handguns at an exorbitant rate (yeah, we’re looking at you Roberts!)? I’m kind of thinking “no” based on a recent California ruling that over-turned a complete AR-15 style rifle ban, but the law works in mysterious ways!

    The same might be true of a required 3-week (120hr) course that would appear to be designed to regulate access versus contribute useful information (I mean, how many different ways can an instructor say lock it up and review gun liability rules….anything beyond 2 days would seem to fail the scrutiny triggered by a fundamental individual right).

    The 100-day waiting period is quite out of line with Florida’s 3-day waiting period or even California’s 10-day waiting period….which the Court has elected to not review. Maybe it works as an alternative to an outright ban. Does this discourage mass shooting or just postpone them? Maybe for the teens I can see it but the older mass shooters probably not….they may more patiently build their stash.

    Certainly nothing stops states from exploring any of these options and letting federalism work…and letting voters voe with their feet if they are unhappy.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  242. I have really low standards when it comes to watching sci-fi, which means I pretty much like anything that comes down the pike, but Loki surprised me, because I didn’t know where it was going. Well done.
    I’m also liking Halo and I’m working on the first season of Picard, which is alright.
    I’m really liking the Lincoln Lawyer, and Bosch still delivers. But the one series that’s just flipping brilliant, IMO, is Ted Lasso. Wonderful writing, like the scene about practice, which is word-for-word the infamous Allen Iverson press conference but with a completely inverted meaning.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  243. quoted by AJ_Liberty (a36eed) — 5/29/2022 @ 5:57 am

    Most of these mass shooters expect to be killed. They want to be killed.

    Those who don’t are successfully deterred. That limits their number.

    \Now in the NYT I read an ethics question in the magazine (writer wanted to know whether she should write about a murder she was present at because maybe it would be exploitation or something. Answer was no//)

    A man had bludgeoned to death a woman – she came out he started to go after her so she retreated and hid until after he had killed the woman.

    This was in a shared office space.

    Turns out the woman was the manager and was going to have him evicted. He had already lost his home and was living in the work space so he took it pretty hard. Being evicted came close to the end of his life anyway, to him. This man probably could not buy a gun,

    It’s really a murder/suicide. The researchers say it must be addressed from both ends: there needs resources to investigate when individuals are in crisis and to intervene, and mechanisms to make it harder to commit mass shootings. It’s not clear to me that this is a “trans”, CRT, BLM, illegal immigration, or Mr. Potato Head issue.

    While one can argue that religion can help with despair and self-loathing, religious people are not immune to depression or suicidal ideation. I don’t see religion as a cure-all for mass shooting (see Muslim extremists as an example). If we believe that we should intervene with mental health crises, then we need to put our money where our mouth is.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/27/stopping-mass-shooters-q-a-00035762

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  244. @238. Not true, according to Mike Pence.

    Colt started selling the semi-automatic version of the M16 rifle as the Colt AR-15 in 1964. The M16 rifle (officially designated Rifle, Caliber 5.56 mm, M16) is a family of military rifles adapted from the ArmaLite AR-15 rifle for the United States military. The original M16 rifle was a 5.56×45mm automatic rifle with a 20-round magazine. In 1964, the M16 entered US military service and the following year was deployed for jungle warfare operations during the Vietnam War.

    DCSCA (49d78b)

  245. 141 Davethulhu (ee3282) — 5/28/2022 @ 2:30 pm

    Curiously we don’t have a transcript of the teacher’s call to 911, even though we do have transcripts of the children calling in.

    I think we have some quotes of the children and a summary but from the teacher we have nothing/

    The reason may be that they never confirmed who made the call.

    Maybe they also want permission?

    But they could say what it said without giving out the name.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  246. Remember the good old days when god was in our schools and negroes were not. When you could lynch uppity black people and other minorities while praying in school.

    Uh, no. Don’t remember any of that.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  247. [Waiting periods] Does this discourage mass shooting or just postpone them? Maybe for the teens I can see it but the older mass shooters probably not….they may more patiently build their stash.

    It mostly discourages impulse usage, notably suicide.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  248. Apparently, this guy is serious.

    President Trump was on a path to be a double Hall of Fame athlete in the MLB and PGA Tour, however God called him to business and saving the world.

    Trump has sacrificed so much for his country.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  249. joetard has stolen so much from his country.

    mg (8cbc69)

  250. @231 which is why I’m not willing to concede them an inch out of fear they might take two. Appeasement won’t work with that group.

    frosty (4126a5)

  251. How has Biden “stolen so much from his country”?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  252. But if somebody says he does NOT want to kill people, you should not believe him.

    Red flags rely on the notion that someone will report someone if he just gives you the idea he might want to kill people, even if he denies it. That won’t work.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 5/29/2022 @ 7:46 am

    Do you want to kill people Sammy?

    frosty (291148)

  253. @238 The AR-15 was designed to be a rifle for the military. It’s a perfectly good rifle for that purpose and the one the military has both full auto and burst mode. The version sold over the counter does not have either.

    I wouldn’t consider a semi-auto version of a gun “more capable” in this context than a similar weapon with burst mode and/or full auto. This was the earlier claim.

    Also, for the special military training crowd; do you know why burst mode was added?

    frosty (c594d1)

  254. the killer was advertising his intent on instagram

    if he had only mentioned hunter’s laptop or the covid lab leak theory or called a male with male parts a male, the clever algorithms would’ve thrown up red flags like you wouldn’t believe

    JF (026b61)

  255. frosty

    thank you for confirming its a military rifle

    EPWJ (ded958)

  256. Here’s a test to see if this assault weapons ban idea is based on logic and rational thought. Show someone who supports the ban a picture of a mini 14 with the wooden stock and traditional grip and ask them if that is a weapon covered by the ban. Then show them the “tactical” version and see if they have a different answer.

    You can also try that with a traditional Model 70 and then show them a picture of Carlos Hathcock with his. And then get into the weeds on what constitutes a “military grade” weapon.

    frosty (aaf2b8)

  257. frosty,

    Its not a lever action nor pump nor bolt action rifle.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  258. 249,

    Looks like he’s a true believer and omg, what a load of BS he’s selling!

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  259. “Military grade” is a rhetorical approximation. But while it’s clear from context what the speaker is trying to say opponents of gun control like to use any ambiguity to imply the speaker is ignorant or that a policy solution is impossible. How about “weapons designed and configured to quickly and efficiently fire a large number of rounds each capable of killing a human”.

    So that would exclude most shotguns (ammo capacity) , bolt action rifles (ammo capacity and rate of fire) revolvers (capacity and rate), some semi-auto pistols (depending on capacity and bullet size) and varmint guns (small caliber)

    It would include many semi-auto rifles with large capacity magazines, some hand guns, some specialty shotguns.

    And how about we not even ban them, just include them in the same regulatory category as automatic weapons?

    But as I said; there’s no political room for this. Too manny GOP voters have made guns part of their identity and too many others but into weird culture war conspiracies. This leaves no room for compromise.

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  260. @256 I never argued that it wasn’t. I argued that a) it’s a meaningless distinction and b) it’s not more capable or above military grade as you seem to believe.

    Did you know the military has awarded contracts for new rifles. Will the AR-15 also be above that? Is it possible you’ve oversold this more military than the military thing?

    frosty (03d6d2)

  261. Talking around and around and around …. There are two ineluctable facts:
    1. The thing these high-capacity, easy to shoot, semi-automatic rifles do best, far better than anything else they might do, is kill innocent, unarmed, unsuspecting, helpless persons; and
    2. The animal would never have even walked into the school if he did not have one.

    nk (6c3be1)

  262. 262

    Bingo

    EPWJ (ded958)

  263. @260 It’s not exclusively a GOP thing. There’s a reason constitutional carry is also called Vermont carry.

    As for the other; do you know you can get high-capacity shotguns? It’s a waste of time to play that game though. The anti-2a crowd has made it clear it’s not about rate of fire, capacity, or lethality.

    The purpose of a firearm is to efficiently kill people. That’s why it’s effective for self defense. The pro-2a people are ok with the implications of that and the anti-2a people aren’t.

    frosty (7ad753)

  264. @262 In China they’ve had a cycle of knife attacks in schools. The body count is not trivial. I don’t think they’ve got a different type of monster there.

    frosty (63cf0d)

  265. This leaves no room for compromise.

    That’s untrue. Just not “compromise” on your terms.

    Let’s say that you’re trying to cut the carnage on the streets. You could try to ban cars that go over 80, or weigh more that 2 tons, or gave distinctive characteristics of cars like that. This would get you strident opposition from people who like fast cars or big trucks, or need them for some reason that doesn’t occur to you.

    Or, you could license drivers and pull the licenses of people who drive poorly, or drunk, or get into a lot of accidents. Since nearly everyone believes that they would not be in those categories, there is far less pushback, at least until the licenses become difficult to get.

    But keep on pushing the “compromise that is repeatedly rejected. Maybe next time it will be different.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  266. @264, yes. That’s why I said “most shotguns”. Maybe read more closely.

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  267. Kevin, I think better liscencing and registration of the types of weapons I described would be a great idea. Unfortunately the GOP strenuously opposes that.

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  268. This is complete bull$#it by the way

    “The purpose of a firearm is to efficiently kill people. “

    That’s the purpose of SOME firearms. Many are designed for other ends; varmint hunting, target shooting, hunting large game, hunting birds etc.

    Any weapon can kill. But the guns were talking about are designed to efficiently kill large numbers of ppl at short to medium range.

    Had the killer walked in with a over/under shotgun, a 38 special, or a .22 it would have been MUCH harder for Them to kill 19 children, 2 teachers, and send over a dozen more ppl to the hospital and it’s reasonable to conclude their would have been fewer casualties.

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  269. This is what gets me. The shooter entered the building at 11:33am, and he engaged three police officers only two minutes later, and then four more showed up shortly thereafter. This could’ve been over in a matter of minutes, with potentially fewer dead elementary schoolers.

    The facts are almost too painful to recount. According to the latest timelines, at 11:33 a.m. on Tuesday, May 24, the Uvalde mass shooter (I’ve adopted a practice of refusing to name spree killers) entered the school and began shooting into classroom 111 or 112. Two minutes later, at 11:35 a.m., three Uvalde officers arrived at the closed classroom door. Two were lightly wounded by gunfire from the shooter. Four more officers arrived.

    Let’s pause right here. According to Uvalde police training documents obtained by Mike Baker and Dana Goldstein at the New York Times, this moment should have led to an immediate, sustained, and sacrificial engagement with the shooter. Police, including Uvalde police, are taught to engage a police shooter and not to stop, even if it means taking casualties. Here are some key quotes:

    First responders to the active shooter scene will usually be required to place themselves in harm’s way and display uncommon acts of courage to save the innocent.

    More:

    As first responders we must recognize that innocent life must be defended. A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field.

    When a man or woman puts on a uniform and straps on a gun—whether they’re a police officer or a soldier—they should be making a profound declaration. They’re willing to die to protect their community and their nation. They don’t want to die, of course. But they’re willing to pay the “last full measure of devotion” if that moment arrives.

    That’s why we respect men and women in uniform. In some cultures, the uniform is a symbol of authority, not sacrifice, and those who wear uniforms are feared far more than they’re respected. In our culture, we thank soldiers for their service and “back the blue” because, in theory, they’ve placed our lives above their own.

    At 11:54am, people were gathering outside the school, and “tension is building between parents and police”. There shouldn’t have been such tension, because the situation should’ve been over.
    Instead, six calls for help were made from that schoolroom, from 12:03pm to 12:36pm, to no avail until 12:50p, 75 minutes after initial police contact, when they finally shot him dead.
    I like nk’s word ineluctable because, to me, the local police on that fateful day in Uvalde were ineluctable cowards. They should do the honorable thing and quit, especially the school district police chief.
    One other thing. I haven’t heard any of the recordings of the 911 calls, but I think we need to hear them the sooner the better, no matter how terrifying.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  270. David French wrote a blistering article about the duty of the officers who waited in the hallway while students called 911

    https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/to-do-the-right-thing-you-might-have?s=r

    There was some biting pushback in the comments section. I’d like to know what options were readily available to breach the door before concluding what was easy or not. Certainly a bum rush of the shooter could have resulted in officer fatalities (in the end, it didn’t though). Who wants to be the first one through that door? Yes, it’s the job and you do as ordered or what is required….and you trust your training….but the expectation of courage assumes adequate training.

    It’s unclear if any additional children got shot during the 40 minute stalemate (waiting for a janitor’s key just seems surreal)….or if lives could have been saved by an immediate entry…..but the clear numerical advantage and the fact that kids were calling from within that room….it’s unclear how anyone could see this as anything but a police failure. Let’s be frank and committed to doing better. Firemen rush into burning buildings…police are supposed to protect and serve.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  271. Paul,

    I hesitate to say, as maybe 10% of the investigation has been completed. The classroom door was locked and was armored. (Not confirmed) The delay wasn’t indecision, but no one had a key. The animal fired through the wall at anyone going near the door. Needed ballistic shields. keys to breach.

    All this could be bull hockey as well.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  272. I’ll agree that I’m being a little harsh, EPWJ, but it shouldn’t have taken a flipping hour to get a key.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  273. AJ

    Firemen dont rush into buildings anymore. 15 years ago Houston had a fire chief who had a brilliant idea that going into a burning building would save lives. 11 dead fire fighters later in two years including the chief, all major fire departments contain fires. Don’t mix hollywood with reality. Also all cops are not gunfighters, they are not door breachers,. the are wildly out of shape, out of firearms practice. and they are not trained to do what everyone thought they should do. They certainly would have all died a horrible death trying to rush a door once the first two cops went down, access would have slowed to a crawl – more would have died.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  274. Paul,

    I didnt think you were being harsh, BTW

    Its horrible, raw feelings, political grandstanding, CYA, tough decisions, no one’s walking away from this career wise. The families are not being comforted by all this public discussion – and they should be our focus.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  275. “Using, displaying or having in operational mode any paging device, cellular telephone
    or telecommunication device (see the Glossary) at school from 8:00 A.M. to the end
    of the campus’ school day. (Telecommunication devices include any type of device
    that permits the recording, transmission and or receipt of messages, voices, images or
    information in
    any format or media, electronic or otherwise, including but not limited to iPhones and
    Blackberry devices). P OSSESSION OF P O W ER ED – U P ELEC TR ON I C D EVI
    C ES
    A R E N OT A L L OW ED D U R I N G THE S C H OOL D A Y EX C EP T A T THE U
    V A L D E
    H I G H S C H OOL , M OR A L ES J U N I OR H I G H AND ANY OTH ER C A M P
    U S W H ERE
    TH E D ISTR ICT A N D C A M P U S A D M INISTR A TI ON A R E ISS U ING EL
    EC TR ON IC D EVI C ES TO D EL I V ER THE A C A D EM I C I N S TR U C TI ON
    . U S E OF TH ESE
    TEC H N OL OG I C A L R ES OU R CES , W H I CH I N CLU D E TH E D I S TR I C
    T’S N ETW OR K
    SYSTEM S A N D U SE OF D I S TR I C T EQU I P M EN T, I S RES TRIC TED FOR
    A PPR OV ED PURPOS ES ON L Y . S TU D ENTS A ND P A R ENTS W I L L B E A S
    K ED TO
    S I G N A U S ER A G R EEMENT ( S EPA R A TE FROM TH I S H A N D B OOK ) R
    EG A R D I N G
    U S E OF TH ESE D I STR I C T R ESOU R C ES.
    • Possession and use of cell phones and other telecommunication devices on
    extra- curricular and co-curricular trips and functions are at the sole
    discretion of the activity sponsor.
    • Using e-mail, other forms of electronic communications, District or campus
    websites, or the Internet to threaten students, volunteers, visitors or
    employees, cause disruption to the educational program, or encourage illegal
    behavior.
    • Sending or posting messages that are abusive, obscene, sexually
    oriented, threatening, harassing, damaging to another’s reputation, or
    illegal.
    • Engaging in verbal or written exchanges that threaten the safety of
    another student, a District employee, a District volunteer, or school
    property.
    • Possessing published or electronic material that is designed to promote
    or encourage illegal behavior or threaten school safety.
    • Using any device to copy or capture an image of any District document
    (including, but not limited to any tests, exams or portions of tests or exams),
    whether for
    personal use or to pass on to another person, with or without receiving
    anything of value in return, without the express written permission of a
    teacher or administrator.
     Attempt to access or circumvent passwords or other security-related
    information of the district, students, or employees or upload or create
    computer viruses, including off school property if the conduct causes a
    substantial disruption to the educational environment.
    • Tampering with, changing or altering records or documents of the District by
    any method, including, but not limited to, computer access or other
    electronic means.
    • Damaging and/or destroying and/or altering school computer hardware and/or
    software by any method including, but not limited to, the use of computer
    software viruses or other electronic means.
    • Inappropriately using instructional materials, including computers, printers, and
    computer systems. This item includes, but is not limited to, using the Internet to
    threaten students, District employees or District volunteers, or to cause
    disruption to the educational program. This provision also includes, but is not
    limited to, violating computer use policies, rules, or agreements signed by the
    student and/or the student’s parent or guardian.
    • Using or having on or in an operational mode any device that permits recording
    the voice or image of another person, unless all persons whose voices or
    images are being recorded are made aware of the recording prior to the
    actual recording of their voices or images. Students are prohibited from using
    any type of recording device in any manner that interferes with or is
    disruptive of the educational process or invades the privacy of students,
    employees, volunteers or visitors. If they violate this prohibition, then they are
    subject to discipline under this provision and/or any other provision in the
    Student Code of Conduct that may be applicable to the circumstances
    involved. The provision involving obtaining prior consent of the individual
    being recorded does not include those situations where the individual or
    individuals being recorded are engaging in or are the victims of either a crime
    or a violation of the Student Code of Conduct, so
    long as the student making the recording turns over the recording to a school
    employee as soon as possible after the incident is recorded, and does not
    provide a copy of the recording to anyone other than law enforcement or
    school
    employees .
    • Substantially disrupting the educational process as a result of showing
    disrespect to school employees or officials by the use of a computer or the
    internet, wherever the computer is located or however the internet is
    accessed, including the posting of any comments about or images of school
    employees or officials on any internet website that are demeaning, obscene
    vulgar or profane, and which comments or images can be accessed using a
    District computer.
    • Substantially disrupting the educational process as a result of using, in any
    manner or format, any voice recording, picture or visual display of any school
    employee or official without the written authorization of the campus principal
    and the school employee or official in the picture or visual display or on the
    recording.
    • Installing any device or software onto or into any part of the District’s computer
    or electronic communications system that will permit or facilitate the recording
    of any keystrokes or the acquisition of any passwords or other security-related
    information.”

    Phones? Did the kids even have them? this is Uvaldes current cell phone policy

    EPWJ (ded958)

  276. Elementary student may not have been allowed to have phones

    EPWJ (ded958)

  277. EPWJ, I’ll pull a DCCCP. Except they did and then they didn’t. Meaning, once the door was unlocked, nothing magic happened. Someone had to be the first through the door with a mass shooter having leverage….and there was no pile of dead police bodies. I’m sure we will learn more…..is it conceivable that the officers in that hallway did not know that children were still alive inside making 911 calls? If so, that speaks to a different level of incompetency. 75 minutes to get a key or a plan to breach one of teh two doors. Seems inconceivable to me…and lots of cops on discussion boards are frustrated by that as well

    As to firefighters, google firefighters making daring rescues….I think you’ll be surprised that one tragedy did not suddenly change the nature of the job. Firefighters rushed into the World Trade Center knowing a collapse was possible. French is right…you put on the uniform to serve and take calculated risks.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  278. EPWJ, you’re behind in your facts. Read French’s article, there were as many as four calls from inside the room.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  279. I think they took their dead teacher’s phone

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  280. “P ELEC TR ON I C DeVICES
    ARE NOT ALLOW ED D U R I N G THE S C H OOL D A Y EX C EP T A T THE U
    V A L D E
    H I G H S C H OOL , M OR A L ES J U N I OR H I G H AND ANY OTH ER C A M P
    U S W H ERE
    TH E D ISTR ICT A N D C A M P U S A D M INISTR A TI ON A R E ISS U ING EL
    EC TR ON IC D EVI C ES TO D EL I V ER THE A C A D EM I C I N S TR U C TI ON”

    This casts serious doubt about calls coming from inside the room….

    EPWJ (ded958)

  281. The door almost certainly wasn’t armored. Custodial staff, all admin, and possibly their campus monitors would’ve all had master keys. Yes, they could have electronic devices, they just had to be off.

    Nic (896fdf)

  282. AJ,

    how would they unlock it? find it under fire? in a closed space?

    The media smell blood and is making a horrible terrible heart wrenching day seem to be even more horrific. No one knows and we wont know for weeks. Any real facts.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  283. Kevin, I think better licensing and registration of the types of weapons I described would be a great idea. Unfortunately the GOP strenuously opposes that.

    Probably because of the way “may-issue” regimes are mostly “don’t-issue.”

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  284. Nic,

    the doors were allegedly armored. The district policy seems to forbid phones except in the higher schools.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  285. That’s the purpose of SOME firearms. Many are designed for other ends; varmint hunting, target shooting, hunting large game, hunting birds etc.

    Others have the purpose of being ABLE to shoot or kill someone who poses an existential danger to you or yours. And some have multiple purposes.

    Had the killer walked in with a over/under shotgun, a 38 special, or a .22 it would have been MUCH harder for Them to kill 19 children

    I disagree about the .38 special, especially if it has magnum hydroshock rounds. A few speedloaders and there would not be many “wounded” either. The AR-15 is pretty much a .22 caliber, btw.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  286. If so, that speaks to a different level of incompetency.

    A management problem.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  287. @EPWJ@287 The key part of the rule was the one that got cut off when you quoted it. “Powered-up” powered-up mean on. All their electronic devices had to be powered down, or off. Do you have a link to where it says the doors were armored? It isn’t in their district safety plan or in any of the media I saw.

    Nic (896fdf)

  288. R.I.P. Bo Hopkins

    Icy (e2ee8c)

  289. I disagree about the .38 special, especially if it has magnum hydroshock rounds. A few speedloaders and there would not be many “wounded” either.

    We’re not talking about gunfighters with years of training and experience, Mr. Kevin M. We’re talking about f***wits who shoot babies.

    The AR-15 is pretty much a .22 caliber, btw.

    It’s very much a .22 caliber. And the .300 Weatherby Magnum is pretty much a .32 caliber, .308 vs. .312. It’s the things other than the bullet diameter that make it not a parlor round.

    nk (6c3be1)

  290. “The media smell blood and is making a horrible terrible heart wrenching day seem to be even more horrific. No one knows and we wont know for weeks. Any real facts.”

    The police have been lying about what happened since day 1. I’m certain the latest version still contains distortions and omitted details.

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  291. The media are storytellers. Why do you think they’re called “news stories”, for crying out loud? Any resemblance in their stories to actual facts or actual events is either coincidence or dearth of imagination.

    nk (6ea96c)

  292. AJ

    French doesnt know, no one knows yet, not even law enforcement

    EPWJ (ded958)

  293. #249 and @259 That claim reminded me that some reporter had actually checked, and, of the baseball games for which they could find newspaper articles, Trump hit .138 at a “podunk, cold-weather high school playing the worst competition you could possibly imagine.”

    (As I understand it, Trump isn’t a bad amateur golfer — but he cheats like hell. Somehow that doesn’t surprise me.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  294. nic

    I first posted the link to the entire student code of conduct. Then I posted the entire phone policy, then I posted the relevant policy. Someone I know has gotten an answer, no elementary kids are allowed to have phones on campus.

    But, it was the end of the year, celebrations, I would not be surprised if there were phones in the classroom. Butthe evidence is leaning otherwise

    EPWJ (ded958)

  295. It’s not French, it’s the news media in conjunction with the police. These are calls to 911….how can you pretend they don’t exist? Also, still waiting to see where the doors were supposedly armored

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/27/us/texas-shooting-911-call-press-conference.html
    https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/a-timeline-of-911-calls-during-the-texas-school-shooting/

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  296. looks like the shooter was the only one who followed school lockdown procedures

    and it was amazingly effective

    JF (026b61)

  297. AJ

    “Questions have also arisen over safety protocols, as tactical officers who first arrived were unable to breach the classroom’s steel door and had to wait to get a master key from the principal.”

    EPWJ (ded958)

  298. @EPWJ@297 This is what the student handbook says:

    The district permits students to possess personal cell phones for safety purposes; however, these devices must remain turned off during the instructional day, including during all testing, unless they are being used for approved instructional purposes. [See Textbooks, Electronic Textbooks, Technological Equipment, and Other Instructional Materials on page for graphing calculator applications on computing devices.]

    Maybe they talked to a teacher or someone who knows better, but the policies you quoted and the student handbook both say they can have cell phones as long as they are turned off. This is pretty typical of most schools, because parents want their kids to have phones in case of emergency or for when they are walking home from school.

    Nic (896fdf)

  299. Nic

    Thats for junior high and high school.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  300. @EPWJ@301 ah, I see where the confusion over the door is. Steel doors are normal for school classroom doors, they aren’t special armored doors.

    Nic (896fdf)

  301. It’s the student handbook for all schools in the district. If you go to the handbook, the electronic device section is labeled “Electronic Devices and Technology Resources (All Grade Levels)”. The sections that are just for middle and high school are labeled, ” (Secondary Grade Levels)”

    Nic (896fdf)

  302. AR’s are easy to use. Should rifles be hard to use?

    AR’s are accurate. Should rifles be inaccurate?

    AR’s are easier to hold on target for all sizes of humans because they are light, the recoil is managed, there are attachments that assist. Should rifles be hard to hold on target?

    I live in CA so I’ve already had to concede to a 10 round magazine (although I borrow 30 round magazines when training)

    steveg (d79581)

  303. Steve, The argument I’m making is that at a certain point on the quickly killing larger numbers of ppl it becomes justifiable to create policy that will limit access to the weapon. We already do that for automatic fire and explosives.

    I think weapons like the AR 15 merit similar considerations in a way that a Remington 870, bolt action 30-30 or 38 special do not. Even though all of those weapons are capable of killing a person.

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  304. Nic

    Steel is armor, also all Texas school doors were scheduled 2 years ago to be upgraded to be unbreachable with all that covid money, did it happen? Who knows, was the funds for resource officers used for school safety?, another good question.

    But also trying to get past photos of robb elementary classrooms. So you have more information. Also there were 8 phone calls to 911, police say they were from inside the school, the press says they were inside the classroom.

    Pat, I admire, his colleagues, the DA’s who will investigate and see if there is any criminal charges, they will have – a year from now, the full story. Pat does this day in and day out, year after year. They get all the facts, from all the sources and compile the truth.

    EPWJ (ded958)

  305. AR’s are easy to use. Should rifles be hard to use?

    Break open single shots are easier.

    AR’s are accurate. Should rifles be inaccurate?

    The round is accurate. There are probably 100s of guns chambered for it that are more accurate than off-the-shelf civilian ARs.

    AR’s are easier to hold on target for all sizes of humans because they are light, the recoil is managed, there are attachments that assist. Should rifles be hard to hold on target?

    Easier than what? Most people who don’t want to spray a classroom with a couple or three 30-round magazines of FMJ can find themselves a rifle they can hold on target that’s not an AR.

    But, yeah, if someone wanted to design a gun for a f**kwit, with no skills or training, to spray an elementary school classroom with bullets in a the space of a few minutes, an AR is what he would design.

    nk (6ea96c)

  306. Radegunda

    Thanks for your observation: “No one is claiming that school shootings would stop if one guy gave up his AR15”. You put a spin on my assertion. Collective actions are made up of individuals and I would willingly participate with the collective will under the terms I described. Under the terms as described the government would not have to come to my house, individually, and confiscate my AR because I would volunteer to bring it in to the collective.

    I also think you would be correct to say “No one is claiming that school shootings would stop even if everyone gave up their AR rifles ..” CA and Newsom want to ban all “Assault Rifles” and have defined all AR15’s as such. Their reason for the ban is school shootings and they do not claim school shootings will stop 100%.

    steveg (d79581)

  307. Sorry, I just meant we were using different standards of what an armored door meant. My experience of armored doors is from when I was a kid visiting my father at work on a military base and the steel classroom doors are my day-to-day.

    Nic (896fdf)

  308. If you go to robb elementary school official facebook page, you can scroll through – the doors are heavy steel most have no windows – however there are a bunch of windows in these classrooms

    EPWJ (ded958)

  309. I posted links but they didnt go through

    EPWJ (ded958)

  310. It looks like a mix of a few doors without windows and a number with. The Jan 7th facebook post shows a bunch of classroom doors that look like standard classroom doors, pretty much all with windows.

    Nic (896fdf)

  311. nic.

    Lot of classrooms hsve doors that opened to the outside – every single classroom in at least two of the wings, see swhat you see, maybe I’m wrong but now the propped open door story is wearing thin

    EPWJ (ded958)

  312. From google street, it looks like the classrooms are in primarily outdoor facing wings. It looks like there might be one building that has an interior hallway, but the classrooms facing the main classroom wings would probably had outdoor facing doors as well. In google streets, one of the doors on what would be that part of the school is propped open (maybe into an MP room?). It also looks like they have a maybe 4 or 5 foot chainlink fence around the campus.

    Nic (896fdf)

  313. Nic,

    Looks like all the classrooms had huge windows, outside and inside doors

    EPWJ (ded958)

  314. Time123 (9b76f4) — 5/29/2022 @ 12:23 pm

    You’re mixing up a few things. When the revolver was developed it was as an improvement to prior pistols. That improvement being that it killed more things faster. Going from a single to a double barrel shotgun was for the same purpose. The repeating rifle is the same story. That variants were developed after the fact or older designs were targeted towards different use cases is called marketing.

    The choice of large or small game, etc. is largely a choice of round not weapon type. And yes, different types of rounds have been developed for different purposes.

    I agree with Kevin on the 38. It’s a very effective round and you don’t have to be a professional trick shooter to use a speed loader. The interesting thing is the AR-15 isn’t the optimal weapon for these mass shooters. I’m not sure why they pick it. Maybe because of how it’s portrayed in media.

    So, let’s try something different. What’s the cutoff? What’s the number of people killed during what sort of timeframe and range that would require whatever reforms we’re talking about?

    frosty (65e4ed)

  315. @EPWJ@317 Could be in that part of the school. Looking at the overhead and street view, the office seems to be on the east side of the school, the funeral home is on the nw side and the teacher parking lot is on the west side of the school. The classrooms on the east side seem to be all in exterior facing wings that are all single rows of classrooms. The building next to the teacher parking lot on the west side seems to have a double row of classrooms which probably has an interior hallway, but the classrooms away from the parking lot may also have exterior doors that face the rest of the school. So part of the school has interior pass throughs and part is all exterior from what I can tell.

    A lot of our schools in CA also have similar exterior facing wings with big windows that open, especially the older ones built before AC was super common, because they needed the ventilation. I don’t know that it would even be possible to harden them against a gunman.

    Nic (896fdf)

  316. The argument I’m making is that at a certain point on the quickly killing larger numbers of ppl it becomes justifiable to create policy that will limit access to the weapon.

    What about this weapon?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waukesha_Christmas_parade_attack

    BuDuh (340919)

  317. The hits just keep coming from Ms. Greene:

    “…they [the government] want to know when you’re eating, they want to know if you’re eating a cheeseburger, which is very bad because Bill Gates wants you to eat his fake meat that grows from a peachtree dish, so you’ll probably get a little zap inside your body that says ‘no, no’ don’t eat a real cheeseburger you need to eat the fake, the fake burger, the fake meat from Bill Gates…”

    Yes, she definitely said peachtree, not petri.
    It felt like a walk through crazytown, just transcribing her brew of insane and stupid. This lady represents the 14th District of Georgia, and my party just nominated her for reelection. Good golly Moses.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  318. There is a similarity to vehicles. Off the cuff
    The argument would be: Vehicles above a certain weight and horsepower are more deadly in accidents, and because the speed limit is 65, no one should have access to that kind of vehicle

    steveg (bc3923)

  319. peachtree dish

    “Peachtree” is a popular word in Atlanta. There are probably 15 streets with that name.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  320. The argument would be: Vehicles above a certain weight and horsepower are more deadly in accidents, and because the speed limit is 65, no one should have access to that kind of vehicle

    When the correct argument is that some people shouldn’t have access to cars, and some other only to some cars. And the same for guns.

    Why? Because — and this has been repeatedly observed in practice — it is nearly impossible to isolate out those weapons that should be off-limits without encompassing broad categories of weapons that are not such a problem. It IS possible, and this has been proven with cars, to identify the types of individuals that should not have access to guns, or to some types of guns.

    To blithely say, oh, just make X “regulated” like machine guns is highly disingenuous, as machine guns are for all intents and purposes illegal for civilians to possess. And this kind of, well, lie is type of thing that makes gun owners unlikely to sign onto your ideas.

    Kevin M (eca4d2)

  321. “Peachtree” is a popular word in Atlanta. There are probably 15 streets with that name.

    And gazpacho is a cured meat. Everyone in ATL knows that.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  322. I was really sad to say goodbye to The Expanse. It certainly had a lot of plot vectors available but I guess the actors were ready to move on. The Outer Range is kind of interesting…like a Sci-Fi Western. It will interesting to see where it goes.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  323. I really enjoyed Outer Range and hope Season 2 is as good.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  324. I really enjoyed Outer Range and hope Season 2 is as good.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  325. Here’s a good thread on the importance of our M270 and M142 missiles for the defense of Ukraine, and you can see it on the map in comment #18.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  326. There are all kinds of self-propelled vehicles which are not street legal.

    Analogies are sleight of hand and misdirection. Reality is what it is.

    nk (886e62)

  327. @326 I can’t make myself watch the last episode. The books aren’t bad but the early stuff is better than what’s left in the books.

    frosty (d2845b)

  328. CNN Nancy pelosi’s husband paul busted for dwi in napa ca. Police refuse to say in nancy was in the car.

    asset (ae8f69)

  329. Good thing there were no bridges over water that he was driving on. We don’t want a replay of uncle Ted’s excellent adventure where an unconscious woman was left on her own. Inside a sinking car.

    mg (8cbc69)

  330. 299.JF (026b61) — 5/29/2022 @ 3:10 pm

    looks like the shooter was the only one who followed school lockdown procedures

    No, there was at least one classroom he couldn;t get into/

    Theteachers in that classroom didn’t have time to lock the door.

    Actually, since the first chronology has been thrown out, we don’t know if they received a warning before the shooter came to their classroom door.

    The shooter also fired into some classrooms from the parking lot outside while he was outside, between about 11:31` and 11:33

    I read that both rooms he was confined to later (111 and 112) were for the 4th grade, but a 3rd grade teacher was injured, and a 3rd grader was killed. ”But things were pretty informal. The end of the school year was near.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  331. NC Lt. Governor Mark Robinson Speaks at 2022 NRA National Convention:

    https://rumble.com/v16d21h-nc-lt.-governor-mark-robinson-speaks-at-2022-nra-national-convention-in-hou.html

    Greg Abbott and Dan Patrick need to fire their PR guys that suggested running like cowards.

    BuDuh (340919)

  332. There was speculation online that he might have originally intended to go there Monday, because he high school graduating class annually held a ceremony in the Robb school

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  333. More tall tales about Putin’s illnesses: (they sound made up – just the medical “facts” especially since no details are given that would explain that – just buzzwords like “cancer” “operation” “years to live” “sanitarium” (!! – that’s really out of date) “eyesight”

    https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-cancer-surgery-claimswhat-we-do-know-what-we-dont-1709689

    Journalists, news outlets and Russia experts have reported both during and before the war that Putin may have cancer or is otherwise terminally ill.

    In May 2022, former U.K. intelligence officer Christopher Steele claimed the Russian leader broke up meetings of his security council to receive “some kind of medical treatment between those sections,” while the former head of the British Secret Intelligence Service said Putin would be “gone by 2023, but probably into the sanatorium.”

    https://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2022/may/29/vladimir-putin-given-three-years-to-live-by-doctors-reports-2459414.html

    Quoting intelligence sources, [including Christopher Steele?] the Mirror reports that Vladimir Putin has been given a maximum of three years to live by doctors.

    The FSB officer said the Russian president, 69, “has a severe form of rapidly progressing cancer,” Mirror reports.

    Putin’s eyesight is seriously worsening and his limbs are now also shaking uncontrollably, the report said.

    Putin’s terminal prognosis, according to the report, emerged in a secret message from the Russian spy to FSB defector Boris Karpichkov now hiding out from Putin’s assassins in Britain.

    The message warned Putin is refusing to wear glasses over fears it would admit a form of weakness, and he is now lashing out at his subordinates with ‘uncontrolled fury’.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  334. President Biden made up another tall tale, at the Naval academy commencement, which may be the first time reporters have heard that story

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/05/27/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-united-states-naval-academys-class-of-2022-graduation-and-commissioning-ceremony

    THE PRESIDENT: Hello, Naval Academy! Whoa.

    Before I begin my speech, a thought crossed my mind as I was told the Class of ‘72 is here. I was appointed to the Academy in 1965 by a senator who I was running against in 1972. (Laughter.) Never planned it that way. I wasn’t old enough to be sworn in. I was only 29 years old when I was running. He was a fine man, and his name was J. Caleb Boggs.

    I didn’t come to the Academy because I wanted to be a football star. And you had a guy named Staubach and Bellino here. So I went to Delaware.

    But all kidding aside, the best line of the debate was — after it was all over, the announcer — the questioner who was a good guy but supported my opponent — who was a good man as well, I might add — and he said, “Senator Boggs, you have anything else you want to say?” And he said, “Yes, just one thing.” And he took the microphone. He said, “You know, Joe, if you had accepted my commission to the Aca- — my appointment to the Academy,” he said, “you’d still have one year and three months active duty, and I’d have no problems right now.” (Laughter.)

    So, the Class of ’72 — (laughs) — welcome. You guys must be very proud of all you’ve seen and done.
    ….

    https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/joe-biden-says-he-applied-to-naval-academy-dates-dont-add-up/

    ….It’s unclear if Biden has told the story before, but it surprised political journalists who have covered his many campaigns and his presidency. Biden’s 2008 autobiography “Promises to Keep” does not mention the Naval Academy.

    Spokespeople for the White House and academy did not immediately respond to The Post’s request for additional information.

    The US military was heavily involved in the Vietnam War by the mid-1960s and had Biden attended the academy, he would have had to serve in the Navy upon graduation.

    Biden received five student draft deferments during his four years at the University of Delaware and subsequent three years at Syracuse University College of Law.

    After Biden graduated law school in 1968, he reportedly was deemed unfit for military service by citing childhood asthma. His memoir doesn’t mention the condition while describing his football exploits or his work as a lifeguard. A report released in November by his doctor also doesn’t mention asthma.

    Biden has a habit of seeking to relate to his audiences by sharing questionable anecdotes about his personal experiences — as well as making false or exaggerated claims.

    One of them, of course, was his claim to have been instrumental in the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  335. Putin may be reusing actors:

    https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/vladimir-putin-accused-of-faking-visit-to-military-hospital

    ….Wearing a white lab coat, Putin was seen on video and in still photos talking to pajama-clad soldiers at Mandryk military hospital, which marked his first such visit since the outbreak of the war in Ukraine.

    Putin was accompanied on the visit by Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. He asked one of the soldiers standing at attention next to their beds about his baby son, telling him: “He will be proud of his dad.”

    After the hospital visit, Putin hailed the troops as “heroes” during a televised meeting with government officials.

    But a day later, Adam Rang, a self-described “counter-propaganda” activist living in Estonia, tweeted that one of the soldiers in the hospital looked eerily familiar.

    “Putin met with a wounded solider who, by a strange coincidence, was also a factory worker he previously met,” Rang stated.

    Rang shared a photo of the purported soldier in the hospital room, and another image allegedly showing the same man with a receding hairline and a distinctive widow’s peak in a crowd of people meeting with Putin on another occasion.

    Rang and Ukrainian race car driver Igor Shushko also shared a compilation of photos showing a cast of recurring characters meeting with Putin years apart….

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  336. asset (ae8f69) — 5/30/2022 @ 12:01 am

    . Police refuse to say in [sic – should be if] nancy was in the car.

    The spokespeople didn’t know anything. This does not slways mean that somebodu is hiding something, butt it could be that a ststement has not been approved.

    She wasn’t there. She was far far away, on the East Coast.

    https://www.tmz.com/2022/05/29/nancy-pelosi-husband-paul-arrested-dui-napa

    At the moment, it appears she’s in Rhode Island for a commencement speech to graduates there.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  337. https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-school-shooting-suspects-grandfather-speaks/story?id=84966002

    Reyes also said he has a criminal background and cannot have a weapon in the home. He would have reported the weapons to authorities had he known about them, Reyes added….

    …The suspect had been staying with his grandparents for the past few months after having a falling out with his mother, Reyes said…..Ramos did not go to school this past year, according to Reyes, who said he would take his grandson to work with him sometimes.

    Classmates at Uvalde High School told ABC News that Ramos rarely attended school and recently had been exhibiting unusual behavior, such as threatening classmates and claiming to have cut scars into his face…..

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  338. Happy Memorial Day. God bless those who gave their lives to make this USA a better place.

    This is good news if true.

    Odesa military administration official says Ukraine now has a sufficient number of Harpoons from Denmark to sink all of Russian Black Sea Fleet.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  339. There are animals who, if they cannot eat or cache something, they will befoul it so one else can either. Putin is one of them. He will snap up as much of Ukraine as he can and leave the rest of the country a wreck.

    And he will, likewise. make the rest of the world a worse place for his having been born into it. For example, Syria and Israel. Laying waste to one and destroying the soul of the other through the “alliances” they made with him.

    nk (c84382)

  340. Davethulhu (ee3282) — 5/29/2022 @ 2:38 pm

    The police have been lying about what happened since day 1. I’m certain the latest version still contains distortions and omitted details.

    1, A lot about what they did or didn’t do between when police were standing outside the classroom starting at about 11:44 and the end at 12:50 or so. It’s being portrayed that only one person didn’t want to go in. It might actually be asking for to much for them to go in, but there may not have been any formal decision not to intrude.

    2. Did the killer fire any more rounds inside the classroom after the police were there?

    3. Did any of the children bleed to death?

    4. Why was the door opened?

    5. Whose debit card was used to purchase the rifles and the ammunition, and who put the money into the account and what was the source of the funds?

    6.Who thought he might be another school shooter.

    7/. Was the woman he shot really his grandmother, or only a stepmother to his mother?

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  341. 340. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/30/2022 @ 8:04 am

    Odesa military administration official says Ukraine now has a sufficient number of Harpoons from Denmark to sink all of Russian Black Sea Fleet.

    Necessary if Ukraine doesn’t want to end the war without recovering Crimea.

    If Putin has no Black Sea fleet, or feels he must evacuate it then he may be willing to give up Crimea. Meanwhile Russia has talked about establishing a ceasefire zone where ships cam come and go to export grain from both Ukraine and Russia.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  342. The |Uvakde police chief being blamed or scapegoated for maintaining a standoff was elected to the City Council this month with 70% of the vote.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/uvalde-police-chief-delayed-officer-response-shooting-join-city-counse-rcna30910

    Uvalde police chief who delayed officer response to shooting to join City Council

    Peter Arredondo, chief since 2020, campaigned on communication and outreach “to those in need,” the local newspaper reported.

    ….Peter Arredondo, the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, stopped at least 19 officers from breaking into the school as the gunman opened fire for at least an hour.

    [now wait a second. Most of the firing took place right away]

    Arredondo believed that the shooter had barricaded himself and that the children were not under an active threat, Steven McCraw, the director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said Friday….

    …According to McCraw, Arredondo believed there was no active threat, so instead of sending officers in, he spent time finding keys that would let him into the school. During this time, however, the shooter had unencumbered access to carry out the attack. Nineteen students and two teachers were killed.

    Arredondo was not present among law enforcement officials standing with McCraw on Friday, and McCraw did not explicitly name him.

    Arredondo did not immediately return a request for comment by NBC News.

    Looking for keys to let him into the school? Weren’t the police standing in the hallway?

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  343. https://www.uvaldetx.gov/government/city_council/municipal_elections/index.php

    The City of Uvalde elects council members by single member districts and the mayor at large. There are five (5) city council districts.
    City council members and the mayor all serve four-year terms.

    There was aspecial election last July 24

    ms8.revize.com/revize/uvaldetx/Notice%20of%20Special%20Election%2007-24-2021.pdf\\Election this year:

    https://cms8.revize.com/revize/uvaldetx/Drawing%20for%20a%20Place%20on%20the%20Ballot%2002-28-2022.pdf

    The election was held on Saturday, May 7, 2022.

    Sounds like it might be nonpartisan, since they held a drawing to determine place on the ballot.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  344. It’s good that “nobody” (whoever nobody is) believes that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to protect the people from a bad government, or the parents in Uvalde might feel that they should take up their arms and look to get themselves at least a better police force.

    nk (636bd8)

  345. #337 I have no opinion on Putin’s health, since I see the news reports on the subject, so far, as “raw” intelligence, which can be evaluated only by those with the proper backgrounds — and access to secret intelligence, neither of which I have.

    But, if he believes his time is short, that could explain the timing of his invasion of Ukraine, especially since he has no obvious heir.

    Purely military considerations would make an attack more likely when either the ground is frozen or dry, not during one of the two mud seasons each year. The mud seasons in Russia and Ukraine are not a secret.

    (Another possible explanation for the timing is that Putin intended to attack earlier, but was persuaded to delay the attack by “Emperor” Xi, who didn’t want the Winter Olympics ruined.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  346. The stories on the Uvalde murders should remind us — if we have forgotten — that first reports are often wrong. Perhaps in a month from now we will have a reasonably complete and accurate account, but we don’t seem to have one, now.

    For example, if the gunman had had worked sufficient hours at Wendy’s, he could easily have saved enough money for the weapons and ammunition he bought. (If, for example, he had worked 1,000 hours, and saved five dollars an hour, he would have had 5,000 dollars.) Does that explain where he got the money? Maybe, but I haven’t seen any news reports on the subject.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  347. Maybe a Covid stimulus check financed the thug?

    BuDuh (340919)

  348. Maybe a Covid stimulus check financed the thug?

    That would assume he was an emancipated minor who filed his own tax returns as a 17-year old, but nice try.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  349. #342 Paul is right to remind us about the purpose of this day, and the commemorations that are taking place.

    (This morning, I learned from Wikipedia that there is another reason to remember this day in Puerto Rico, and everywhere else in the civilized world.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  350. That would assume he was an emancipated minor who filed his own tax returns as a 17-year old, but nice try.

    Where do I find the financials and tax returns you are relying on, Paul?

    I will at least let tell you I am only guessing.

    Here is another guess. It has been my experience that some minors who end up somewhat in the care of their grandparents are also part of some government welfare program that funnels money the the “guardians” whether or not they take that job responsibly.

    You and I both have no idea where the maniac got his money but my assumption are not implausible because you have a crystal ball.

    BuDuh (340919)

  351. Bunch of typos… what’s a brother to do.

    BuDuh (340919)

  352. Well yes, it’s obvious you’re guessing. It just just happened to be a bad guess.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  353. What is your beef, Paul? You are being incredibly rude. This is unnecessary.

    BuDuh (340919)

  354. Maybe you stop being so thin-skinned, BuDuh.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  355. “Maybe a Covid stimulus check financed the thug?”

    What am I going to do on my Memorial Day vacation? Oh I know, I’ll go troll a political thread about a bunch of kids getting killed.

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  356. Maybe a Covid stimulus check financed the thug?

    That would assume he was an emancipated minor who filed his own tax returns as a 17-year old, but nice try.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/30/2022 @ 9:30 am

    I disagree with the assumption that the check in question had to be the shooter’s. The comment clearly says “a stimulus check.” Not “his stimulus check.”

    The stimulus funds could have easily been from the either Grand, provided or stolen.

    felipe (484255)

  357. Hmmph!

    the

    felipe (484255)

  358. , but nice try.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/30/2022 @ 9:30 am

    This portion is absolutely unnecessary. It assumes bad faith.

    felipe (484255)

  359. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/30/2022 @ 10:40 am

    Don’t get personal – that way leads to…

    felipe (484255)

  360. I was matching snark for snark, felipe, and I’m not surprised the Patterico Hall Monitor showed up.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  361. “It assumes bad faith.”

    It was a safe assumption.

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  362. Though Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address was given before Memorial Day was celebrated, it is still fitting to re-read it, on this day:

    Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

    Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

    But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  363. Steve, I’d say it differently. Not that /on one/ should have access, but that not everyone should have access. At one point we all agreed that fully automatic weapons and destructive devices should be more tightly controlled then semi-auto weapons. I’m saying we should do something similar with some semi-auto weapons.

    Time123 (f4b1bd)

  364. It was a safe assumption.
    Davethulhu (ee3282) — 5/30/2022 @ 10:59 am

    Thank you for your agreement.

    felipe (484255)

  365. Felipe, I think Dave is saying it’s safe to assume Buduh is commenting in bad faith. Which I think is a reasonable position based on BudUhs history.

    Time123 (f4b1bd)

  366. Also, I don’t think Paul’s comment was any more snarky then the one he was replying to.

    Time123 (f4b1bd)

  367. I was matching snark for snark, felipe, and I’m not surprised the Patterico Hall Monitor showed up.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/30/2022 @ 10:58 am

    “An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, leaves the world blind and toothless.” -Tevye, FotR

    Your words betray your maturity. I’ll return to the table for adults; won’t you follow me? Your return would be most welcomed.

    felipe (484255)

  368. NRA Board Re-Elects LaPierre 54-1 Despite Scandal

    The 76-member board voted 54-1 in favor of LaPierre. The native New Yorker has held the title of NRA’s executive vice president since 1991, according to Phillip Journey, a board member who attended the meeting. It’s unclear if all board members were in attendance or if any abstained from the balloting. – bloomberg.com

    DCSCA (8f1055)

  369. Felipe, I think Dave is saying it’s safe to assume Buduh is commenting in bad faith. Which I think is a reasonable position based on BudUhs history.
    Time123 (f4b1bd) — 5/30/2022 @ 11:06 am

    Yes, that is true. I make no harm in expecting better from a better commenter. One can return in kind (oxymoron), but should one?

    Also, I don’t think Paul’s comment was any more snarky then the one he was replying to.
    Time123 (f4b1bd) — 5/30/2022 @ 11:07 am

    Same here, Time123. I “pick on” the latter since it was directed at one commenter, whereas the former was simply put “out there.”

    felipe (484255)

  370. Your words betray your maturity.

    I’ll just note your admonition is pointed in only one direction, felipe. To me, that’s hypocritical.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  371. Felipe, that’s fair. And as always you’re a great example of generosity and grace. I’m going to finish a beer a jump in the lake.

    Happy Memorial Day everyone.

    Time123 (f4b1bd)

  372. I’ll just note your admonition is pointed in only one direction, felipe. To me, that’s hypocritical.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/30/2022 @ 11:17 am

    I called you the better commenter, Paul. Would that be part of what you perceive to be hypocrisy? Or an example of paying due respect?

    Time123 (f4b1bd) — 5/30/2022 @ 11:17 am

    Enjoy yourself, Time1223, and be safe.

    Happy Memorial Day!

    felipe (484255)

  373. Here’s an update to the alleged self-defense case that patterico brought to our attention a few months back. You may remember Kyle Carruth shooting Chad Read during a heated argument that escalated during a custody dispute. The grad jury voted to not indict Carruth. I’m a bit surprised and am curious how that result will then impact a wrongful death civil claim. Might me nice to see some analysis.

    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/no-criminal-charges-against-texas-man-who-shot-and-killed-girlfriends-ex-husband-during-front-porch-custody-fight/

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  374. Thanks, felipe.

    Paul, if I called you thin skinned you would be tripping over yourself to hit the “personal attack!” panic button.

    Why so mean today? I’ve directed no comment towards you in this conversation that justifies the way you have chosen to engage.

    BuDuh (340919)

  375. US won’t supply Ukraine with missile systems that could reach Russian territory, Biden says

    The United States will not send missile systems to Ukraine that can reach the territory of Russia, U.S. President Joe Biden has said, news agency Reuters reported on May 30. Biden’s statement came after reports appeared that the White House was preparing to send modern long-range rocket systems to Kyiv. A day earlier, the U.S. media reported that the White House was preparing to make a statement on the decision to send Ukraine Multiple Launch Rocket System and similar artillery systems.

    According to the NYT, the White House has already made a decision and is ready to announce it publicly, approximately next week. Most likely, such assistance will include the M31 GMLRS (Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System) – a high-precision MLRS with satellite guidance, a missile set that roughly equivalent to a 500-pound bomb in terms of the amount of explosives, the media outlet said.
    The range of such a system is about 40 miles (almost 65 km).

    On May 21, before the second international meeting on the supply of weapons to Ukraine, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he expects a decision from the online summit of defense ministers of more than 40 countries to transfer U.S. multiple rocket launchers to Ukraine.’ -source, yahoo.com

    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bb5766fa-30fe-46de-8139-d67348768e6c

    “Give them artillery and you’ve made them independent.” – Mr. Dryden [Claude Rains] ‘Lawrence of Arabia’ 1962

    DCSCA (8f1055)

  376. Happy Memorial Day
    About to take the Pork Shoulder off the smoker. FTC for a hour or two. Take it over to my neighbors – a retired Brigadier General and chow down with some of his Army friends.
    Happy BBQing.

    mg (8cbc69)

  377. I see Joe Biden also sees a 9mm pistol as a weapon of war because it is high caliber and can blow a lung out of your body, whereas a .22 will just lodge itself nicely, kindly, somewhere convenient to remove.

    steveg (910959)

  378. At one point we all agreed that fully automatic weapons and destructive devices should be more tightly controlled then semi-auto weapons. I’m saying we should do something similar with some semi-auto weapons.

    Time123 (f4b1bd) — 5/30/2022 @ 11:02 am

    One option for improving the gun reform might be to not accuse people of engaging in a slippery sloop fallacy while the goalposts are being moved.

    When you say “some” can you be more specific than “assault weapons”?

    frosty (e9575f)

  379. @381 I’d be nice if JB didn’t keep providing examples of “some” common-sense restrictions and giving the game away. It makes it hard for people to argue that they just want to restrict those above military grade assault weapons.

    frosty (e9575f)

  380. frosty, what legislatively do you think can be done to reduce mass shootings? What can you support?

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  381. @382, I’ve done that several times in this a recent threads. But to repeat; weapons designed to fire a large number of rounds each capable of killing a human.

    Now I’m going to go play volleyball.

    Time123 (f4b1bd)

  382. Crud, forgot some caveats.

    “Weapons designed to quickly and accurately fire a large number of rounds each likely to kill a human without reloading.”

    Time123 (f4b1bd)

  383. “Cars designed to quickly and accurately strike a large number of people likely to kill a human without refueling.”

    We need legislation.

    BuDuh (340919)

  384. But to repeat; weapons designed to fire a large number of rounds each capable of killing a human. Now I’m going to go play volleyball.

    How very ‘Top Gun’. 😉

    DCSCA (7c77d3)

  385. All weapons used in an assault are assault weapons.
    nk has done a good enough job spelling out some of the features some jurisdictions find worrisome and apply to “Assault rifles”. My wife likes some of those features because she’s 5-4 120 lbs and she can put rounds on the target in quick procession because of thoise feature. I like it because why use something harder if you are in a friendly competition to see who can put rounds fast and accurate on multiple targets in a variety of sequences.

    In CA we can’t have those features unless we use a fixed ten round magazine system where in order to change the magazine, you have to open the breech. So I really don’t know what is left to ban.

    Here is a link to Joe’s reassertion yeaterday or today of previous desire to take away the 9mm pistol because of the high caliber. Which would include popular revolvers is Joe was bright enough to convert 9mm to caliber .357 and .38

    https://nypost.com/2022/05/30/biden-goes-on-anti-gun-tirade-suggests-theres-no-rational-basis-for-9mm-pistols/

    And there it goes. The gun folks just said no to everything.
    Never underestimate Joe’s ability to f things up. The narrative had legs, momentum was on his side for AR’s and AK’s…. and he showed his ass

    steveg (910959)

  386. @378 I appreciate and enjoy your comments. The comments section would be better if Paul and Time didn’t think it was ok to insult or denigrate you.

    frosty (d2845b)

  387. Trump was wannabe senor autogolpe and Biden is King of the autogol… Biden is like the guys who score a goal and run and slide on their knees to the corner flag, rock the baby, pop the cork, shout out to Jesus… but its an autogol, FFS what a dimwit.

    steveg (910959)

  388. @385 You haven’t provided anything that could be used for legislation. That’s not even enough for a common basis of agreement. But given that I know you’re smart enough to have thought about this a bit I think it’s fair to conclude that you don’t want to be more specific.

    frosty (d2845b)

  389. Thanks frosty. I enjoy your comments as well.

    BuDuh (340919)

  390. @384 I can’t tell if your limiting this narrowly to gun legislation. If you are I’d say none. Personally I’m in favor of constitutional carry and I don’t think suppressors should be restricted if that helps you understand how I’d vote on gun reform.

    If you mean more broadly; I think the background check system isn’t as good as I’d like. I think our mental health system is terrible but I don’t know how to fix that legislatively. I think the way media both demonizes and fetishizes firearms and violence is also a problem but I don’t think anyone is really in favor of a federally funded firearms education program. I don’t think I’m far off from Kevin, if I understand him. I think it’s a people problem and not a gun problem.

    As it is mass school shootings are rare and before I spent much effort specifically on that I’d look for better options. Improving mental health services would have multiple benefits besides school shootings. Gun violence is highly concentrated in a few urban areas. If you deal with that mass shootings would be down. But we don’t have an effective gun reform solution for the more common forms of gun violence. I think that undermines a lot of the more common calls for reform after a school shooting.

    frosty (d2845b)

  391. I see Joe Biden also sees a 9mm pistol as a weapon of war because it is high caliber and can blow a lung out of your body, whereas a .22 will just lodge itself nicely, kindly, somewhere convenient to remove.

    Here’s where he can make a change himself: Order the Secret Service to carry nothing but .22 revolvers. He can do that.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  392. At one point we all agreed that fully automatic weapons and destructive devices should be more tightly controlled then semi-auto weapons. I’m saying we should do something similar with some semi-auto weapons.

    “Some” will be “all” in short-order, then they’ll be saying “we all agreed that semi-automatic weapons and destructive devices should be more tightly controlled then high-caliber revolvers. I’m saying we should do something similar with some high-caliber revolvers.”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  393. If you focus on the guns, you will have a slippery slope. It is ALREADY HERE and it will continue as those untrained to weapons will want to disarm those “other” people with guns.

    If instead you regulate who may have guns, and since it is quite clear that most people behave responsably with them, the slippery slope can be avoided since most people won’t want to lose the POSSIBILITY of obtaining a weapon if need be. If the brush becomes too broad, even non-gun-owners will object.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  394. You cannot compromise with goal-post-movers.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  395. Universal background checks that have to come back before a weapon can be sold, none of this skip the background check and sell the gun if it doesn’t come back after 3 days stuff. Fingerprint trigger locks that can only be changed at a point of purchase. I can open my laptop and my phone with my finger print and no one else can, which would prevent someone from taking their parent’s guns and straw buyers. The tech should be small enough at this point to fit on a weapon. A waiting period. A safety class for overall weapons usage that includes information on mental health risks and a personal self eval and family eval to help the person actually stop and consider the mental health of themselves and their family members. A tailored class for each type of weapon being purchased. A required signed statement that they do not, to their knowledge, have anyone living in their household that has mental health risk factors for suicide, explosive anger, hallucinations, paranoia, domestic violence, etc and acknowledgement of liability should they know they have a family member with those risk factors and the gun is used by that family member for illegal violent purposes that they are liable for any damages caused by that person.

    Nic (896fdf)

  396. “I think it’s a people problem”

    Would a Red Flag law that met these requirements be acceptable?

    1. Anyone subject to an ERPO should have the opportunity to challenge the order with full due-process protections in place.

    2. An order that confiscates firearms should only be granted when a judge makes the determination, by clear and convincing evidence, that the person poses a significant risk of danger to themselves or others.

    3. The judge should concurrently make a determination of whether the person meets the state standard for involuntary commitment.

    4. Whether or not the person meets the state standard for involuntary commitment, the person subject to the ERPO should receive mental-health treatment.

    5. The process should allow firearms to be retained by law-abiding third parties, local law enforcement, or a federally licensed firearms dealer when an individual is ordered to relinquish such firearms.

    6. There should be a mechanism in place for the return of firearms upon termination of an ERPO.

    7. The process should include criminal penalties for those who bring false or frivolous charges.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  397. “I think the background check system isn’t as good as I’d like”

    Do you believe that you, a private gun owner, should be able to sell or transfer your AR-15 (or any gun for that matter) to an unlicensed individual without an official background check?

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  398. “Improving mental health services would have multiple benefits besides school shootings”

    If someone is referred to mental health services and they demonstrate some anti-social symptoms, can that medical process lead to them being denied the ability to purchase a firearm?

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  399. ‘No vessels of war shall be kept up in time of peace, by any state, except such number only, as shall be deemed necessary by the united states, in congress assembled, for the defense of such state, or its trade; nor shall any body of forces be kept up, by any state, in time of peace, except such number only as, in the judgment of the united states, in congress assembled, shall be deemed requisite to garrison the forts necessary for the defense of such state; but every state shall always keep up a well regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accounted, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition, and camp equipage.’

    From Article VI: The Articles of Confederation.

    The whole document is an interesting read; reveals insight to the mindset of the framing ‘folks’ then alive. The document is the source of the 2nd Amendment in 1780’s discourse and debate in the USA; when powdered wigs, frocked coats, pantaloons, pooping and peeing outside behind Ye Olde Tavern on the way to the local knocking shop were routine; who there were no grocery stores, large public schools or post offices to shoot up- just squirrel stew and warm ale at that tavern, swilled from lead-pewter tankards were standard fare; When only “white, land owning men had the ability to vote in most states;” when women did not- churned butter and swept out the place; when slaves were bought and sold as property and picked cotton… when British soldiers clad in bright red coats marched in tight lines shoulder to shoulder– and the primary weapon available was the single shot, muzzle-loaded, Brown Bess musket. Most male citizens of the thirteen colonies of British America were required by law to own arms and ammunition for militia duty. The Brown Bess musket was a common firearm in use by both sides in the American War of Independence.

    ‘The Bess was three feet, eight inches long in the barrel and weighed approximately fourteen pounds. The interior of the barrel was .75 calibers and used a lead ball of .69 calibers. Black powder was the explosive material used which commonly fouled the musket after repeated firing… The average soldier was expected to release three volleys per minute.’ – http://www.revolutionarywarjournal.com/brown-bess/

    This is what the quilling founders were working with- far below the unimaginable operational characteristics of a modern “assault rifle.”

    DCSCA (118757)

  400. Paul, if I called you thin skinned you would be tripping over yourself to hit the “personal attack!” panic button.

    Like I said, BuDuh, thin-skinned. It was a little barb, no big deal.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  401. @401 If I used that in a free speech context it sounds like it’d be prior restraint so the bar would need to be very high. And while I’m in favor of improving the mental health system I’m not in favor running people through the current system because guns are wrongthink.

    Given how some people feel about firearms I’m not sure simply having them wouldn’t trigger #2.

    When you say mental health treatment what do you mean? Do you mean something like a suicide assessment, a 24h hold, or we talking about ongoing treatment or counseling?

    How would this not be used in a divorce proceeding. I don’t believe #7 would prevent that, or abuse generally, since proving false or frivolous will be a high bar. Especially since those are criminal charges.

    So I’d say there are some land mines in that proposal.

    frosty (d2845b)

  402. You’re still talking about that, Paul?

    I didn’t mean to touch a nerve. My apologies.

    BuDuh (340919)

  403. If you put the following in your search engine the results are quite something:

    “Paul Montagu” “personal attack” site:patterico.com

    It is a rough and tumble blog.

    BuDuh (340919)

  404. @401: A process/option for compensation for arms seized should be possible. Any prospectively long-term seizure, or one likely to end in an arms limitation, should be structured as an eminent domain taking.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  405. @402 Yes. This doesn’t seem to be a factor in the school shootings is it? I haven’t researched it but I don’t think those involve a lot of 3rd party arms length transfers that bypassed the background check.

    I’m not sure how making me do a background check on my uncle or son to give them a gun will cut down on mass shootings.

    When I say improve that system I’m talking about fixing it so that Nic can’t complain about failing to come back in 3 days.

    frosty (d2845b)

  406. A couple of years ago, I applied for a TSA Pre-Check pass. I had to go down to the local airport and was interviewed by a TSA officer, after my background had been checked (basically a credit-check plus any criminal history).

    If we really wanted to 1) limit arms to rational people, and 2) impose the least burden possible, this is probably the way to go forward. The only danger is that it becomes too restrictive, either out of a desire for certainty, or due to increasing government hostility to gun ownership.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  407. @402: As long as that other person has gone through a licensing process, why should it matter?

    If you are talking bout an event in the current scheme of things, I would ask about liability law.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  408. @403 You aren’t convincing me this won’t be abused. No, having “some” anti-social symptoms (which is a very vague and over broad term) shouldn’t bar you from all future firearms purchases.

    And it’s this sort of stuff that proves Kevin’s point.

    frosty (d2845b)

  409. I think Adam Lanza’s mom bought him a rifle. Relying on mom’s, dad’s, grandma and grandpa is doomed. look no further that the Uvalde shooters mom asserting he was a great kid that should not be judged. Nobody, Nobody can circle the wagons like a mom protecting her son. Tied at second place are dad, grandpa and grandma.

    The Uvalde kid probably deserves to go straight to hell and his mom is asking/telling people not to judge him

    steveg (910959)

  410. @404 Turns out, after further review, the freedom of the press only extends to written words put on paper with a quill or a manually operated letter press.

    frosty (d2845b)

  411. There are many professionals who assert that simply wanting to own a firearm is evidence enough of a mental illness. These people will be hand picked to be placed on the tribunals

    steveg (910959)

  412. All of this discussion assumes that one re3ally doesn’t need arms for their protection, that it is a mere affectation. And in some places that may be true; Beverly Hills for example, where the police will rush (and I mean rush) to the defense of the landed gentry.

    But in some urban places, such as Compton, or many rural places the police are either slow or far away. Rules that have your only defense locked up may cost lives. Rules that have your only defense calling the police WILL cost lives. Probably yours.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  413. @415: And freedom of speech only to the unamplified voice. Certainly not to pornography.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  414. and his mom is asking/telling people not to judge him

    So is felipe.

    In my angry moments, I think that this would not have happened if the b!tch that bore the animal had been fixed. But I recognize that there is institutional blame, too.
    Catholics don’t believe in contraception.
    And nineteen years ago, genital stimulation devices were illegal in Texas.

    nk (636bd8)

  415. Ain’t that something? You cannot have more than six genital stimulation devices in Texas because that’s possession with intent to sell, but having a gun with a magazine capacity of more than six rounds is not possession with intent to commit mass homicide.

    nk (636bd8)

  416. No offense meant personally DCSCA, but that ignores historical context. From muzzle loaders to revolvers, lever action, semi auto magazine fed rifles, all were considered OK for civilians until the full auto Tommy Gun began to be widely used by the criminal element.

    “The first Thompson entered production as the M1921. It was available to civilians, but, because of the weapon’s high price, initially saw poor sales. The Thompson (with one Type XX 20 round “stick” magazine) had been priced at $200 in 1921 (roughly equivalent to $3,038 in 2021).”

    “The Thompson achieved early notoriety in the hands of Prohibition and Great Depression-era gangsters and the lawmen who pursued them. It was also depicted in Hollywood films during this era, most notably regarding the St Valentine’s Day Massacre. The Thompson guns used in the massacre are still being held by the Berrien County Sheriff’s Department
    The perceived popularity of submachine guns such as the Thompson with violent gangsters in the 1920s and 1930s was one of the main reasons given for passage of the National Firearms Act by the United States Congress in 1934. One of its provisions was that owners of fully automatic firearms were required to register them with the predecessor agency of the modern Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). The law also placed restrictions on the possession, transfer, and transport of the weapons.

    People often say automatic weapons were banned in 1934, I’ve said it myself as well. That is/was a mis-statement. (see above)
    Automatic weapons were banned in 1986, and even then the law allowed a grandfather clause.

    Major restrictions are fairly new, within the last 36 years

    steveg (910959)

  417. that ignores historical context

    Except it doesn’t.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  418. @415. Pfft. Turns out, after further review, sticks and stones may break one’s bones but words will never hurt one. But this should be a comfort:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8r-tXRLazs

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  419. From Article VI: but every state shall always keep up a well regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accounted, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition, and camp equipage.

    What the gun nutbags pitch today is merely slaughterhouse jive. The “government” can bring them to their knees whining and whimpering at the flick of a switch.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  420. @406, my bullets in @401 are directly from the NRA. Isn’t that interesting.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  421. “I’m not sure how making me do a background check on my uncle or son to give them a gun will cut down on mass shootings.”

    So you are fine with individuals selling their weapons to strangers who might be otherwise restricted from owning a firearm because it’s inconvenient for you to transfer your gun to your son? Hmmm.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  422. “No, having “some” anti-social symptoms (which is a very vague and over broad term) shouldn’t bar you from all future firearms purchases.”

    So what would be the threshold for at least a temporary restraint on buying a weapon?

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  423. It would be even more interesting if you engaged frosty’s questions regarding the points. Maybe something feasible will come of the dialogue.

    BuDuh (340919)

  424. I think it’s a people problem and not a gun problem.

    Except it’s not. People created guns. They don’t grow naturally nor materialize out of a Divine whimsy. If they did, the Lord would first have some explaining to do about the giraffe.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  425. I’m in favor of raising the minimum age to buy any firearm (other than a muzzleloader, which is single-shot, and takes significant time to reload) to 21.

    21 is the minimum age to have a commercial driver license. Whatever the reasoning for that, apply it to firearms as well.

    I imagine some will argue that this proposal would make second-class citizens of those between 18 and 21 years of age. Well, there are age minimums to run for Representative, Senator, and President. Just make it a Constitutional amendment.

    My prediction is that both left and right would object to this idea.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  426. @427. So what’s the threshold for deterring hijackings? You’re never going to deter gun violence completely w/a rational approach; humans are emotional animals. The way to control this is to inhibit access w/so many PITA obstacles as to deter those emotionally driven or impulsive to get one. Air travel- freedom of movement- once was actually fun; now it’s a PITA as any an Israeli can tell you. All thanks to the few who forced the change on the many– but the PITA change made travel safer again.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  427. “I’m not sure how making me do a background check on my uncle or son to give them a gun will cut down on mass shootings.”

    ???? The FBI routinely does background checks when your “uncle or son” applies for a gig w/a defense contractor where access to classified projects and programs are at risk of disclosure. All for… you know… ‘national security.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  428. “It would be even more interesting if you engaged frosty’s questions regarding the points.”

    No you mean let’s change the subject away from frosty not even supporting the NRA’s requirements on Red Flag laws. Would you charaterize being to the right of the NRA as being persuadable?

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  429. So you are fine with individuals selling their weapons to strangers who might be otherwise restricted from owning a firearm because it’s inconvenient for you to transfer your gun to your son? Hmmm.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed) — 5/30/2022 @ 5:24 pm

    Has this hypothetical–that someone sold a weapon to a stranger, who might not have otherwise passed a background check, and then went on to kill people–happened outside urban ghettos in the last 20-odd years?

    In certain deep blue states, they already have these laws in place. In Colorado, for instance, you actually can’t conduct a private gun sale at all without going through an FFL dealer to facilitate–mainly, because Coloradans have become increasingly psychotic in recent decades, and can’t seem to stop committing mass murders, even as the state gets bluer and bluer and bluer with each passing year, and passes gun control law after gun control law.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  430. @425 In what way? Do you think the NRA is the beginning and end of all discussion for pro-2a? Am I not allowed to disagree with them? The NRA has been willing to give ground on gun rights. Do you believe that all pro-2a people must bow before them?

    I mean oh my, I must change my opinion and align with a tribe so that you know which talking points to use.

    @426 And we were having such a good discussion. I was hoping for a longer run. Are you still wondering why gun reform doesn’t catch on?

    frosty (d2845b)

  431. @433 This is the point of the NRA myth making the media and anti-2a crowd love so much. And the anti-2a crowds best excuse for not having any new ideas and not coming to terms with the flaws in their favorites.

    I mean, how can you persuade people that think an individual right of self defense is important, have stats, use logic and reasoning, and won’t embrace our emotional appeals?

    frosty (d2845b)

  432. I think it’s a people problem and not a gun problem

    Oh please. I don’t think the the shooter in Uvalde would have been able to massacre 19 children and 2 adults if armed with a knife. In the US, particularly, it is people *with guns* mass murdering schoolchildren. I’d love to see gun advocates advocate as much for the victims of gun violence as they do for guns. And double that if they call themselves Christians.

    Also, norcal, I like raising the age but I like age 25 more than 21 because you’re pretty much moving out of that emotionally dicey late teens/early 20’s stage.

    Nic @ 400, just Pershing your suggestions, I tend to agree.

    Nk, I both hate and love your comment: You cannot have more than six genital stimulation devices in Texas because that’s possession with intent to sell, but having a gun with a magazine capacity of more than six rounds is not possession with intent to commit mass homicide.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  433. @421 You saw @422 coming right?

    frosty (d2845b)

  434. Major restrictions are fairly new, within the last 36 years

    An number of 19th and early 20th century Winchester lever-action rifles have run afoul of modern laws.

    And some ran afoul of Jim Crow as well (Federalist Society):

    In 1893, Florida made it “unlawful to carry or own a Winchester or other repeating rifle” without a license.[244] How that came about warrants review.

    Ida B. Wells famously wrote in 1892 that a “Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give.”[245] Earlier that year, she explained, “the only case where the proposed lynching did not occur, was where the men armed themselves in Jacksonville, Fla., and Paducah, Ky, and prevented it. The only times an Afro-American who was assaulted got away has been when he had a gun and used it in self-defense.”[246] In the Jacksonville incident, rumors spread of a possible lynching at the jail holding a black murder suspect. The Florida-Times Union reported: “Every approach to the jail was guarded by crowds of negroes armed to the very teeth.”[247] A lynching was averted and the suspect was tried and convicted.[248] In the Paducah case, the jail holding a black man accused of being a peeping tom was being protected by members of the black community when some white rowdies showed up. With a race war rumored, the state militia was called up, and police seized over 200 guns from black homes. Hotheads cooled down and peace was restored.[249]

    Along with Rev. Taylor Nightingale, who advised his congregants to obtain Winchester rifles, Wells urged members of the black community to defend themselves with arms in the newspaper Memphis Free Speech and elsewhere. Their repeated references to the virtues of the Winchester, and the defensive use thereof by black communities, were well publicized and would have consequences.[250]

    Perhaps in response to such incidents in which blacks defended themselves with effective arms, in 1893, Florida made it “unlawful to carry or own a Winchester or other repeating rifle without first taking out a license from the County Commissioner”; only with a license would a person be “at liberty to carry around with him on his person and in his manual possession” such a rifle.[251] A license required a $100 bond from sureties to be approved by the County Commissioner.[252] That would be equivalent to $2,943 today.[253] The average monthly wage for farm labor in Florida in 1890 was $19.35.[254] The law did what it was intended to do when it effectively excluded the poor and African Americans from legal gun ownership. In 1901, the law was amended to add pistols to the list of firearms requiring a license.

    https://fedsoc.org/commentary/publications/banning-america-s-rifle-an-assault-on-the-second-amendment

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  435. Note that the effective gun bans in Florida are not really something the gun banners would care to cite. But they aptly demonstrate the inherent problems in letting the State decide who can defend themselves.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  436. @427 If you’ve got a system that would work as a temporary psych hold on purchases I’d be interested.

    I’d have a lot of concerns and you seem to think the biggest problem with the mental health aspect of this is that not enough people go through the system and forcing more through would fix that. It would simply make it worse.

    frosty (d2845b)

  437. “From Article VI: …but every state shall always keep up a well regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accounted, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition, and camp equipage.’”

    19 kids were killed by the well regulated militia.

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  438. @443. Guess that’s why the quillers of the Constitution- where were the same dudes who worked on the Articles of Confederation, from which that comes from, didn’t quill it into their main body copy. More pressing things to worry about- like a functioning government. It had to be amended; as an ‘afterthought.’

    DCSCA (3f1a40)

  439. @439 I was trying to avoid this side of the history of “gun reform”. It usually just makes the conversation nastier. It’s even got Christians buying guns. They might have even bought two.

    frosty (d2845b)

  440. I’d love to see gun advocates advocate as much for the victims of gun violence as they do for guns. And double that if they call themselves Christians.

    I’d love to see gun control advocates resort to appeals to emotion a little less often when they start demanding more gun control laws that don’t actually work to stop gun violence.

    Let’s be blunt–you’re not going to mitigate most gun violence in this country unless you repeal the 2nd Amendment. Good luck getting enough states on board to make that happen.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  441. The entire historical context is that we stopped needing citizens’ militias, vigilantes, and regulators to kill the natives, “nesters”, and “rustlers” and take their property, by the early 1890’s with the end of the Wyoming range wars. Even the Army got out of the business, and the National Guard took a backseat to local, state, and federal police.

    nk (27cf93)

  442. And what’s risible is the argument that the pro-gun position is based on logic and reasoning while the anti-gun position is based on emotion. Weapons are entirely the product of lizard brain: Hunger, fear, anger, hate, and lust for power over others, not necessarily in the same hierarchy now as a few centuries ago, but still emotions.

    nk (27cf93)

  443. Looks like Canada is about to become a gun-free paradise:

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau (top) announced on Monday that his government will introduce new legislation to implement a ‘national freeze’ on handgun ownership and prevent people from buying and selling handguns anywhere in the country. ‘The day this legislation goes into effect it will no longer be possible to buy, sell, transfer or import handguns in Canada,’ Trudeau told reporters.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  444. @448 You’ve been a good example for the anti-gun position. Calm, reasonable, objective, accurate, etc. Thanks for that.

    frosty (d2845b)

  445. I do not think either side has a monopoly on logic. As I said earlier, I’ve given up a lot already with my AR. It is basically a 10 shot weapon now, more or less like a slightly faster, more accurate lower caliber lever action weapon and think that is more than enough. Anything else is just even further fear based.

    I think Biden stepped in his own sh** saying he is going to move after 9mm handguns in favor of the .22. 9mm handgun being probably the most ubiquitous currently purchased home defense weapon on the market in the USA (despite its inherent inaccuracy beyond very close distance, particularly in cheaper models. I actually would be happier if poor people who buy firearms legally got accurate reliable weapons) I do not disagree with the logical progession of Biden’s thought, but with the conclusion it will reach.

    You can’t negotiate with people who are in process of moving the goal posts before the bodies are cold, even if their main guy is a pitiful dementia patient

    steveg (910959)

  446. If any of you haven’t watched Better Call Saul, you are missing the best show on television. It’s not too late to power-watch the previous seasons, and the first half of this season, before the series resumes for the last half of this, the final season, on July 11th.

    If you haven’t watched Breaking Bad, don’t worry. Better Call Saul is a prequel to Breaking Bad, so you’ll be positioned to watch that series as well.

    I have consumed an obscene amount of TV in my life, and I know whereof I speak.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  447. nk, you are clearly better at logic than I, and appreciate your thoughts.
    Where is the logic in continuing to restrict my rights further and further because there are crazy people? My position is there is a point beyond which it’s a crazy persons veto on sane peoples rights and at that point, logic says we need to draw the line.

    I think I may have been inarticulate, but if you look at what I have given up and what I have now, I better not miss, and this isn’t Hollywood. I can hit staionary targets while moving fast (for me at my age) at various ranges, scenarios, but no one is shooting back. There are reasons why people in the military tasked with house to house do not go pistols only

    steveg (910959)

  448. steveg (910959) — 5/30/2022 @ 8:26 pm

    I think that is a very well-said comment, steveg, and I really have no rebuttal. Like I said in an earlier thread, gun control is a very polarizing issue (I should have also said emotional) and in the end it will have to be determined by who has the most votes. Hopefully votes.

    nk (733aee)

  449. Forgot to say to all of you, that I appreciate the discussion, I’ve learned some things and all of you have my respect. This is a tough problem we can only solve together and am willing to (and have) given up rights. I hope you can hear that as being from a CA resident with Newsom saying he is going to “do more”, I am already CA compliant to a point with my AR that renders it less functional than many legal firearms.
    Hopefully if you see my comments in this CA context you will understand me better

    steveg (910959)

  450. I binge-watched several seasons of Breaking Bad and decided that I don’t really like anti-social sleaze after all, so I have stepped around Better Call Saul altogether. All I have been watching lately are 1950s-early 1960s Westerns on Roku.

    nk (733aee)

  451. I’ve been watching shows from Latin America and Spain with subtitles to improve my Spanish.
    So far I can curse better in Colombian and Galacian dialects.

    steveg (910959)

  452. “I’ve given up a lot already with my AR. It is basically a 10 shot weapon now”

    Steve, I appreciate your comments about your wife, as a true self defense right should not assume one size fits all or presume which weapon is effective enough. But that’s what makes the AR-15 style weapons a double-edged sword…they sure are easy to shoot rapidly and accurately. It’s also why I wrestle with the multi-day waiting periods because oftentimes women are placed in tough situations by psycho men. I would hope for some sort of accelerated review in time-sensitive situations (understanding that creates a big loophole for a cooling-off period…maybe the waiting period should be based on weapon class, so someone could always quickly get a revolver for instance).

    I suppose that then goes to your quoted dilemma. I assume you target shoot. Outside of that, are there situations you reasonably see where you might need to lay down more than 10 shots without pausing to load a new magazine? It would just seem really unusual in practice.

    I’ve not looked at the California rules and whether there are any waivers for target ranges to accommodate larger magazines for practice and competitions. That would seem reasonable, which the law sometimes isn’t. But that’s what foot-voting is all about too, love the weather….hate the politics. Love it and hate it, this is democracy and people will disagree about what constitutes reasonable defense.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  453. “If any of you haven’t watched Better Call Saul, you are missing the best show on television”

    Unfortunately I can only access this season without paying extra. I’m not cheap, but you do have to draw the line somewhere. I figure at some point it will show up on a platform I have. Patience.

    I thought Breaking Bad was riveting. To nk’s point, it sure does glamorize the anti-social side of things, but like The Americans….which I loved as well….it’s about the weighty and believable characters. Still are we numbing ourselves to the violence and amorality…and seeing Keri Russell naked? Well, I suppose no more than a novel that entertains similarly….minus the Russell visual. Everything in moderation.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  454. I binge-watched several seasons of Breaking Bad and decided that I don’t really like anti-social sleaze after all, so I have stepped around Better Call Saul altogether.

    I can see how someone might take that view of Breaking Bad, but Better Call Saul is neither anti-social nor sleaze. You should give it a second look. The relationship between Saul and his brother (also an attorney) is fascinating.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  455. Still are we numbing ourselves to the violence and amorality…and seeing Keri Russell naked?

    I have yet to become numb to seeing Keri Russell naked.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  456. We have similar tastes, AJ. The Americans is in my top five TV dramas (right at #5).

    norcal (3f02c4)

  457. In case anybody’s wondering, here are my top five:

    1) The Wire

    2) The Sopranos

    3) Better Call Saul

    4) Breaking Bad

    5) The Americans

    norcal (3f02c4)

  458. Best concluded series

    1) The Wire
    2) Breaking Bad
    3) Buffy the Vampire Slayer (yes, really)
    4) The Expanse
    5) The Walking Dead

    Best limited series
    1) Band of Brothers
    2) Roots (1977)
    3) 1883

    Best current series
    1) Yellowstone
    2) For All Mankind

    The Americans is pretty good, but not in the top 5. I probably will never watch the Sopranos or Mad Men a second time.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  459. “If any of you haven’t watched Better Call Saul, you are missing the best show on television”

    I have found large stretches of the show boring. I haven’t gotten around to the current season yet.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  460. 1. Sopranos

    2. Sopranos

    3. Sopranos

    4. Sopranos

    5. Sopranos

    Honorable Mention: Deadwood, Fargo, House, Justified. (I assume we’re only talking action/drama. Comedy’s obviously a whole other story.)

    I know this is an unpopular opinion, and considering how few people hold it I’m probably the one that’s crazy, but I find Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul vastly overrated. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve watched every episode of both, but for how great they’re supposed to be, I just don’t think the writing is very good. The stories are fine, but the dialog, characters and relationships, at least for my money, are meh.

    Compare, e.g., the characters on The Sopranos to those on Breaking Bad: On the Sopranos it’s one psychopath after another, all deserving of an immediate, painful demise, yet I love them all. Tony, Uncle Junior, Paulie Walnuts, Livia, Janice, human being just don’t get much worse, yet I can’t help caring about them. Breaking Bad, on the other hand, even the good guys I can’t stand. Walter’s wife, son, brother-in-law and sister-in-law are so insufferably annoying I’d kill them myself. I don’t see the point to that. To me it’s bad, two dimensional writing. Relationships, same. Dialog even more so.

    Anyway, like I said, that’s probably just me.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  461. @465 This is something odd about it and breaking bad. I think the writers have an issue with pacing. They’ll use several shows to setup multiple threads. Some of which never really pay off.

    frosty (848eb8)

  462. @466 Not just you. I like the shows. They’re good but overrated is fair.

    frosty (848eb8)

  463. lurker, try The Wire if you want characters.

    As for the Sopranos, it is just that sociopathy that turns me off. They’re all Paulie, just some have better table manners.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  464. You gotta problem with Paulie’s table manners?

    (As I recall, I liked The Wire, but I had gripes with it too. I haven’t seen it in 20 years, so it’s probably time to give it another shot.)

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  465. @468, I guess neither one of us is alone, but I don’t think we have much company.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  466. According to DU their have been at least 10 arrest for threatening school shootings over the weekend. and a man was shot by police in canada who holding a pellot gun.

    asset (121e13)

  467. Flyover country shields san fran nan from any connection to her inebriated spouse who does very well on his stock trades which he does while on the West Coast, which is very far away from DC where Nancy gets privileged information. These people you 81 million adore, suk if you ask me.

    mg (8cbc69)

  468. The Democrats’ intention is to shred the Second Amendment. The playbook is there to read, but some congressional Republicans want to play paddy cake and make a deal. It’s a
    B.S. game. Never compromise on the Second Amendment. Never. Vote to chip away at it, and we’ll toss you out. It’s as simple as that. Republicans are about to lose the mid-terms by not standing up for the 2nd.

    mg (8cbc69)

  469. Vote to chip away at it, and we’ll toss you out.

    Who’s “we?” I thought you already don’t vote for Republicans.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  470. @473 81 million don’t adore pelosi/biden. They hated trump. ( I voted third part ) I don’t hate trump as much as pelosi/biden ;but thats me. What is the purpose of the democrat party establishment and DNC. Do you know? The corporate deep state does. Biden & pelosi whine about gun control ;but do little as they are to busy keeping AOC and the squad from taking over the democrat party. Their job is to control the left party base to protect the corporate establishment deep state and as a by product keep you conservatives out of the left’s re-education camps along with themselves. Ask yourself what happens to conservative gun nuts if instead of a senile old fool biden is president ;but an AOC is president. Can’t happen they said that about trump. Had trump won in 2020 AOC would have easily got the nomination in 2024 as the establishment would have been completely discredited. You think the democrat party’s job is to spread socialism/communism in fact its job is to keep the left from power and you and others out of a re-education camp.

    asset (121e13)

  471. mg,

    So you are using the vote for Biden Nader, AOC, Schumer, et al. Voting out the people who will stop the gun grabbers so they can grab all our guns, then a national property tax, then regulating national curriculums – sure throw a fit, give them free reign, cause we don’t get 100 percent perfection

    EPWJ (ded958)

  472. 10 people killed, 42 wounded by gunfire over Memorial Day weekend in Chicago, the most violent in five years

    About half of those shot were on the West Side, most of them in a single police district where there were two mass shootings. At least 14 people were shot on the South Side and four downtown.

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2022/5/29/23146412/chicago-shootings-memorial-day-weekend

    BuDuh (340919)

  473. After McDonald v. City of Chicago and Moore v. Madigan, Chicago was left with one, and only one, gun law on the books: Concealed carry permit holders may not carry a gun with a laser dot sight. Dot’s it!

    But let’s not make Greg Abbott’s poor, overworked speechwriters have to make up new, irrelevant bullsh!t. Alright?

    nk (1d9030)

  474. The entire historical context is that we stopped needing citizens’ militias, vigilantes, and regulators to kill the natives, “nesters”, and “rustlers” and take their property, by the early 1890’s with the end of the Wyoming range wars. Even the Army got out of the business, and the National Guard took a backseat to local, state, and federal police.
    nk (27cf93) — 5/30/2022 @ 7:10 pm

    felipe on Rascal scooter: Halt! Where is your hall pass?

    nk: Hall pass? Hall Pass? I don’t need no stinkin’ haaaalll passsssss! SSSS! {bights thumb}

    [felipe grabs nk’s ear and slowly, silently, accelerates “Ethyle Belle.” Here, felipe begins to speak]

    Felipe: I heard what you said, sir. “Entire historical context.” Really? I hear no mention of King george the “tyrant.” Or does your history begin later?

    Yes, “inter army silent leges.” The Constitution did not come until well after the fighting – with guns – had ended. To the victor go the spoils

    One could say that the articles in the constitution, and later the bill of rights, were at least, products informed by “lessons learned” as well as political expedience. One lesson, well learned, was that freedom should be non-negotiable. Without freedom, of what use is property? Without freedom, property and many other concept become mere illusions.

    So , no sir. It was not, in any way, the need to counter our neighbor’s criminal concupiscence, the success of the measures adopted that proved salutary to safety. No. It was, then, the Tyranny of our King, and today, the possible tyranny of our government, that provides the need of the 2nd amendment.

    [Scooter comes to a halt by the school door to the playground just as the recess bell rings]

    nk: Dude! I think you damaged my hearing!

    felipe: go, play outside. Enjoy your freedom – it was purchased at a high price.

    felipe (484255)

  475. The entire historical context is includes that we stopped needing citizens’ militias….

    Happy now, or should I have used a blue pencil? Sorry, Patterico does not provide one.

    nk (ff4ec3)

  476. And what’s risible is the argument that the pro-gun position is based on logic and reasoning while the anti-gun position is based on emotion

    I agree that it is risible! The lizard brain train of thought – not so much.

    I am always pleased whenever I agree with you, nk. It might mean that there is, yet, hope for me.

    felipe (484255)

  477. Not that our (Chicago) politicians are not as full of it as Abbott, with their “guns coming in from out of state”. They don’t need to. Gangsters get their gun punks and gun molls with clean records to get FOIDs and CCLs and buy their guns from the nearest gun shop like any other citizen and carry them for them.

    Which, come to think of it, is what makes Chicago’s dot sight law counterproductive. Those guys don’t know how to aim at their target and hit a bunch of bystanders turning a targeted gang killing into a “mass shooting”.

    nk (ff4ec3)

  478. Happy now, or should I have used a blue pencil? Sorry, Patterico does not provide one.
    nk (ff4ec3) — 5/31/2022 @ 6:59 am

    YES! Very happy. [yeah, I know, I, too, must provide my pencils.] What a difference one word makes to the anally retentive!

    Note to moderators:

    Everyone has my permission to use “anally (anal) retentive” to describe me – I will take no offense. Your permission, well…

    felipe (484255)

  479. What a difference one word makes to the anally retentive!

    Or even just one letter, and you don’t need to be anally retentive:

    No hay amor como el de la madre.
    vs.
    No hay amor come el de la madre.

    It’s not like I’m getting paid to write this stuff, you know.

    nk (ff4ec3)

  480. LOL! Worry not, nk, your reward(s) await(s) you in Heaven.

    felipe (484255)

  481. I finished Season 2 of Ted Lasso (which, compared to Season 1, was more drama than LOL funny) and am wanting for more. I still haven’t seen Sopranos, The Wire and Better Call Saul, and I also haven’t gotten to the final season of Game of Thrones, partly because I don’t have HBO, etc., but I’m fishing around for the next thing, and Mrs. Montagu would rather see Love It Or List It. Maybe Better Call Saul is next.

    I re-read the entirety of the 2nd Amendment yesterday, but I’m still a little hung up on the prefatory part: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State…”

    The two that popped out for me were “security” and “free State”. I know that the “right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” isn’t in the Constitution, but the principles permeate through, IMO.

    To me, there are competing freedoms here, the right to bear arms and the right to live, and they are in tension. The children and teachers at Robb Elementary had the right to not be murdered on May 24, 2022, or any other day for that matter. These 21 dead humans should’ve had the security to live–to remain alive–in our free State, yet that freedom was denied because someone else–a kid who didn’t have had the maturity or mental stability to possess a firearm of such lethality–had the freedom to acquire and possess AR-15s.

    Which freedom has a higher level of importance than the other? Are we a freer state when over a score of lives can be so quickly snuffed out by a clearly deranged person? Maybe another way of saying it is Ramos’ freedom to possess AR-15s should end where the freedom of others to live begins. IMO, the balance is way off, as it stands. It’s why I’m agreeable to well-written red flag laws and some degree of proficiency/mental testing for the kinds of weapons that make mass murder easy and fast.

    Do I want to deny Ramos’ right to bear arms completely? No, unless he had actually did have a violent criminal record or diagnosed case of mental illness, but I don’t believe we have all the answers to his history.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  482. Dana, this is a fascinating article by Tim Carney. He takes a deep look at the relationships between religious identity, involvement in church culture, and gun culture.

    Very much worth reading.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/more-church-less-gun-culture

    So, how did religion tie into their measure of “gun empowerment”?

    “We find that religiosity and gun empowerment are negatively related,” they wrote. The implication: “Religious communities offer alternative symbols and identities that offset the need for guns as a source of self-esteem and moral standing.”

    Again, white evangelicals are more likely to own guns or find personal meaning in their guns, but within that population, those who go to church are less likely to find their identity in guns. They’re more likely to find their identity in Christian fellowship.

    Many, especially on the Left, see gun culture as the enemy these days. Are they willing to accept the sociology, history, and data showing that churchgoing should be their friend? Or will they get bitter and cling to their prejudices and animosity?

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  483. Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 5/30/2022 @ 7:30 pm

    Another Prohibition? The underworld, in Canada, stands to profit. The weapons manufacturers of guns may not profit until a majority of the already purchased weapons have made their way into Canada, allowing the previous owners, now with additional funds, to upgrade their personal armories.

    This possible scenario will make the world safer. “Yes,” or “no?”

    felipe (484255)

  484. Also germane to #483 now and #489 in a Toronto or Hamilton neighborhood soon….https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-south-side-man-ghost-guns-federal-charges-20220531-xuzcgrfjgjbu5jx2opoaq7wrs4-story.html

    urbanleftbehind (df25a1)

  485. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/31/2022 @ 7:31 am

    Excellent comment. In my mind, the foremost concern should be the answer to this question; “who gets to do the balancing of rights?” One (or more) of the three branches of Federal government? The states, or, the People? Right now, it could be argued that the current praxis is “all of the above.” What I fear is cutting “the People” out of the decision.

    felipe (484255)

  486. urbanleftbehind (df25a1) — 5/31/2022 @ 7:46 am

    Thank you for that link.

    felipe (484255)

  487. I must digest the contents of the article in the previous link, but my immediate, visceral, impression is that I recoil from the description “military-grade polymer.” I chuckled, rather than recoiled, wt the use of “military-grade components” in reference to motherboard press releases, because it sought to impress the reader instead of alarm the reader.

    Both uses fail to explain why the components deserved the “military-grade” descriptor. Where military specifications the same? If so, what are they, and what of it? Do the specifications define a minimum durability, or desired lethality? This ambiguity, I believe, is intentional. Ambiguity supports confusion.

    felipe (484255)

  488. -sigh-

    Where military specifications the same?

    felipe (484255)

  489. “but I’m still a little hung up on the prefatory part”

    I like to think of it this way

    * The prefatory statement does not qualify the right with terms like “so long as” or “being necessary for” or “only when”…so there is no timing-out language….or judicial instruction to test whether the purpose is still being met. People like to add that in.

    * It was common in the founding era for prefatory language to state a principle of good government that was narrower than the operative language used to achieve it. For example the New Hampshire State Constitution reads: “In criminal prosecutions, the trial of facts in the vicinity where they happen, is so essential to the security of the life, liberty and estate of the citizen, that no crime or offence ought to be tried in any other county than that in which it is committed”. Does it have to be essential for the right to continue? Probably not.

    * The operative clause says that the right to “keep and bear arms” is to be preserved by government, implying that it pre-existed the Constitution, similar to the 1A. There is no evidence of a pre-existing right to serve in a militia while armed. There is a right of self defense embedded in the 1689 English Declaration of Right(s). Which makes more sense?

    * If it is only about keeping the federal government from disarming state militias, why not state this directly as “Congress shall make no law disarming the state militias” and avoid any confusion about arms for self defense. The framers knew how to use language and they chose a broader statement.

    * To “keep arms” implies ownership or possession. The members of the militia were to be “civilians primarily, soldiers on occasion.” Are we to believe that the 2A was trying to draw out a distinction between “private ownership and use” and “ownership and use for militia purposes”? A ban on the private ownership and use of arms would undoubtedly have had a catastrophic effect on the militia being available for action. The importance of guns to hunting in that era is clear.

    As to your broader point of tension between rights…I think you’re right. Society has a compelling interest to control violence and crime (at the state level). States should be able to regulate weapons while not extinguishing the right of self defense. The question is always how much narrowing, by say eliminating or severely restricting a class of weapons, is appropriate. Are revolvers, shotguns, and bolt-action rifles sufficient for self defense?

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  490. A news story is 90% filler and 10% content, and the content is largely a matter of coincidence and lack of imagination to make up the whole thing from scratch.

    nk (ff4ec3)

  491. AJ_Liberty (a36eed) — 5/31/2022 @ 8:08 am

    Excellent reply.

    It is my opinion that the lack of qualifiers is evidence that the writers possessed (and by extension, readers) all the context required for proper understanding of the language – such as to be self-evident.

    The passage of time, without recourse to reliable history, can (must?) result in a loss of that foundational understanding.

    felipe (484255)

  492. nk (ff4ec3) — 5/31/2022 @ 8:12 am

    Yep, a nut not worth cracking when one is well-fed. But I’m starvin’ here.

    felipe (484255)

  493. Thanks, AJ. This Reason piece clarified my thinking a little, but the brunt was more about the militia question.
    felipe had a point about who does the regulating and how much, and my personal preference is as little regulations/restrictions as necessary, which is partly why I’m still a libertarian-leaning Republican but, like I mentioned, the balance right now is akilter.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  494. The comments have moved from speculations to well-reasoned observations. I thank those commenters who made that happen – you know who you is.

    Time to go walk, while I still can. Some day a scooter for me, but not today.

    felipe (484255)

  495. I also appreciate it when the comment section carries itself like this, felipe.

    BuDuh (340919)

  496. #458 AJ

    I am assuming I will miss a lot if someone is shooting back at me.

    During the fiasco part of the Christopher Dorner manhunt, LAPD fired 102 rounds at two women delivering newspapers. One woman was hit twice in the hand, the other was hit once in the back.

    Adrenaline does weird things… the Torrance police rammed a truck, ripped open the drivers door and shot 3X at the driver from nearly point blank range and went 0 for 3.
    Good thing too, because it was the wrong guy. Wrong truck. Wrong skin tone, Wrong. His lawyer said: “I don’t want to call it buffoonery…”

    I also would ask to consider that people don’t generally run straight down your muzzle one at a time. That would be convenient, but if they are armed and at angles, you have to pick one, hit, swing back, under fire by now probably.

    As to why I would not go with a handgun or a shotgun, I can only say I am more comfortable with my carbine

    steveg (5aabd4)

  497. 475-
    As if you 81 million give a schiff.

    mg (8cbc69)

  498. If it is only about keeping the federal government from disarming state militias, why not state this directly as “Congress shall make no law disarming the state militias” and avoid any confusion about arms for self defense. The framers knew how to use language and they chose a broader statement.

    And in fact, Congress has made laws that remove a state’s control over their militias, which would run afoul of such an amendment.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  499. Michael Sussmann has been acquitted . Apparently Durham couldn’t convince a jury that he lied to the FBI, let alone any of Durham’s more extravagant theories about what went on.

    I look forward to all of the people who were invested in this theory of a elaborate conspiracy between the Clinton campaign and the FBImodifying their beliefs based on the latest information using their priors as a data point that this is just part of the deep state cover up.

    Kidding aside I really am eager to see how the usual suspects spin this as yet more evidence they were right all along about the deep state.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  500. State militias (as distinguished from the National Guard) continue to exist under the control of individual states (see 32 USC § 109c):

    State guards still survive and in recent years have had about 8000 members nationwide. The militia tradition persists in the continued existence of defense forces in two dozen states and a territory. There are up to 12,000 state defense force members on the official rolls, but many are inactive or, like the
    Maryland Defense Force, have a reserve militia category which accords rank but requires no participation. Puerto Rico by far outdistances in personnel numbers the other state defense forces; it as well as Texas, South Carolina, and New York all have over 1200 members each. At the lower end is Michigan, which has retained on paper only about a dozen members after the disestablishment of the Michigan Emergency Volunteers. The list of official state defense forces includes: Alaska, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Texas, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, California, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia, Nevada, Puerto Rico, Massachusetts, Vermont, Washington, Oregon, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, North Carolina, New Mexico, Maine, and Connecticut. Wisconsin, Rhode Island,
    and Delaware are considering organizing such units, and California is poised to reinstate its naval militia. Other states retain laws allowing state guards but have yet to reconstitute them.

    The most active are those in New York, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, Texas, California, Alabama, and Ohio, as well as Puerto Rico. New York, New Jersey, Ohio, and Alaska have naval militias as well. The naval militias in Alaska and New York operate strictly under Title 10 of the U.S. Code under which their membership must be 95% drilling Marine Corps, Naval, or Coast Guard reservists. The other two naval militias fall under Title 32 as well and recruit volunteers along with reservists. Furthermore, some state defense forces, such as New York and Texas, also have aviation components. The air guards primarily provide security to Air National Guard installations in their respective state.

    Source, page 5-6.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  501. Sussman wasn’t a hung jury, it was a unanimous verdict.
    Ms. Wheeler has more details than anyone would ever want on Durham’s efforts, but the prosecutors had to prove all five elements of the offense beyond reasonable doubt.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  502. Time123,

    Your remarks are a sad parody of an objective person. The verdict was never in doubt. DC wi) never punish their own. Now if it was a Jan 6th bystander on the other hand…

    NJRob (cafa84)

  503. NJRob, thank you for making my prediction correct so quickly. “The Jury was in on it and won’t punish their own” is a good one.

    Any chance that the verdict maybe, just maybe, means that the things you’ve been told aren’t entirely correct? Maybe the people telling you this was all a set up were wildly exaggerating things?

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  504. Time,

    The acquittal was expected, but the degree to which DC’s monolithic political base dealt with a political trial is pretty much unknowable. I do think that if the same trial had been held in, say, West Virginia the result would have been different and the folks who say the DC result was apolitical would be saying it was a conservative jury what done it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  505. Does anyone dispute that Sussmann pretended to be independent when he was really working for Hillary and the Democrats?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  506. Kevin, The acquittal was expected because the evidence that he lied was really weak. Which anyone who had been following the case objectively could see.

    I’m sure you do think that if your political opponents had lost they would have reacted in an inappropriate way that justifies your current reaction. Why should you be better than the version of your opponents that lives in your mind?

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  507. The second part of my comment at 512 was harsher then i intended. My point is that using how we hypothetically think our opponents would react to justify our reaction is a horrible principle that justifies whatever reaction we can convince ourselves those amoral bast$%ds would have.

    The charge was pretty simple; he was accused of lying the to FBI. Durham couldn’t convince a jury that happened. Strongly implies that the rest of his theories are likewise weak.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  508. Man, Time, you need to give up the mind-reading thing. You aren’t all that good at it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  509. Durham’s problem was that he tried to prove much more than “he lied.” Faining in THAT made the est of the case look weak.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  510. But remember, this is a place where you can shoot a conservative President on camera and not get convicted.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  511. I do think that if the same trial had been held in, say, West Virginia the result would have been different and the folks who say the DC result was apolitical would be saying it was a conservative jury what done it.

    I’m not mind reading. I’m going by your own statement.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  512. Why should you be better than the version of your opponents that lives in your mind?

    This isn’t mind-reading?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  513. Technically it’s a question. But it’s the logical one in the face of the part I quoted.

    Regardless, Durham has been unable to prove the Simplest of his assertions to a Jury. He couldn’t even prove that Sussamnn lied to the FBI. Let alone any of his other theories about a deep state conspiracy.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  514. @506: For all intents and purposes the state militias have been disbanded and replaced (or reconstituted) as the state’s National Guard. Certainly all the purposes of the militia, as described in the Articles of Confederation, are served by the National Guard units except that the members do not provide (or even possess) their own arms. So, not only are they disarmed, but they are subject to federal control and the militias are denigrated in the extreme.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  515. Let alone any of his other theories about a deep state conspiracy.

    Nor should he have tried IF his objective was to get a conviction on the Lie. That may not have been his goal, however. Given the venue, which is to Sussmann what Simi Valley was to Stacey Koon, he may have just opted for trying him in the press.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  516. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 5/31/2022 @ 11:19 am

    Things may be different now, and for different States, but there was a time when an out-of-state student could enlist in the National guard in order to qualify for in-state tuition rates. This is the esteem with which the National Guard had been held.

    felipe (484255)

  517. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 5/31/2022 @ 11:24 am

    Tin-foil hat thinking would not rule out that the prosecution might have been designed to fail. How’s that for deep-state “corn-spiracy?”

    Hail Hydra!

    felipe (484255)

  518. Kevin, have you followed the case much? From what I saw the bold claims he put in the indictment weren’t what was put to the Jury. Trial itself seemed narrowly and properly focused.

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  519. @506: For all intents and purposes the state militias have been disbanded and replaced (or reconstituted) as the state’s National Guard. Certainly all the purposes of the militia, as described in the Articles of Confederation, are served by the National Guard units except that the members do not provide (or even possess) their own arms. So, not only are they disarmed, but they are subject to federal control and the militias are denigrated in the extreme.

    Not really.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  520. Venezuela has some government sanctioned militias that should face firing squads.

    steveg (5aabd4)

  521. Elsewhere on the internet I saw an interesting question. If Sussmann is not guilty of lying to the FBI about working for Clinton and spreading false campaign oppo research, doesn’t that mean that the FBI knew that Sussmann was working for Clinton?

    I know the answer isn’t so simple, but it does lead down a path that has more questions.

    BuDuh (340919)

  522. @528 Or that he wasn’t there on her behalf. Or that he was lying and the state couldn’t meet it’s burden of proof. Or that he lied and it wasn’t material. Or that the reverse vampires did the whole thing. Hey man, I’m just asking questions. I’m not SAYING it was reverse vampires. But they can’t prove it wasn’t. So many questions /snark.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  523. You might have wanted to proofread that one, Time.

    BuDuh (340919)

  524. I think my point got across.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  525. The problem with the Sussmann prosecution was that James Baker was the sole witness to his conversation, and he a) failed to take notes during the meeting; and b) has told different versions of his conversation with Sussmann, including to other FBI agents and the grand jury. And he wasn’t the only witness who changed their testimony.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  526. Of course you think that.

    BuDuh (340919)

  527. Juror speaks to some media after Sussmann verdict
    “I don’t think it should have been prosecuted,” she said of the case. “There are bigger things that affect the nation than a possible lie to the FBI.”

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffMordock/status/1531683655843827715?cxt=HHwWhsC-7e6K0cEqAAAA

    The trail was wasting the country’s time so she acted.

    BuDuh (340919)

  528. Bottom line, the Durham investigation is a Bust. The IG report is years old and Durham’s only conviction came from that work.

    There isn’t evidence that the FBI was out to get Trump for political reasons.

    There’s plenty of evidence that they honestly believed he was guilty and were zealously looking for evidence to support that.

    Durham is reduced to looking for obstruction charges and can’t even seem to convince a jury of those. But that will no more convince the conspiracy theorists than will all of the debunked claims of vote fraud / stolen elections. There’s always some new theory about how the deep state is out to get them.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  529. Rip, was there something about how the Sussmann text saying “I am not working for anyone” was not allowed to be used as evidence for specifically the claim the he told Baker he wasn’t working for anyone?

    I didn’t fully catch that part.

    BuDuh (340919)

  530. RIP, yup, very weak evidence.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  531. Buduh, you left out the rest of her quote where she explained that they didn’t meet their burden of proof. probably an innocent mistake on your part.

    “It was the government’s job to prove it and they succeeded in some ways and not in others,” she continued. “We broke it down and it did not pan out in the government’s favor.”

    The woman, who did not give her name, declined to say how she thought the government succeeded.

    Unless, you saw this part and intentionally misrepresented what she was saying? I hope you wouldn’t do that.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  532. No one sprays paint over bonds better than Durham. Laughable that anyone would think a guilty play was in play. Another victory for the democrats and they will exploit the cost and waste of time Bondo Barr and his spray painting lawyer put out. It was a done deal before it started. 81 million high five.

    mg (8cbc69)

  533. Two separate points, Time.

    What you posted is obvious by the nature of the verdict. Again… waste of Time.

    BuDuh (340919)

  534. Buduh, you claimed she voted to acquit because she thought it was a waste of time. Your link shows she claimed to have evaluated the evidence and found it wanting. You lied about her point.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  535. Diagram the lie with my exact sentence, Time.

    BuDuh (340919)

  536. baker granted sussmann “confidential informant” status, which meant that nobody in the bureau pursuing the steele dossier nonsense could interview him or even know his name

    that conveniently left very few people who could substantiate the lie

    but even if you believe he didn’t lie, peddling a bogus story to the fbi in order to influence an election and getting away with it is not usually something the average well adjusted person would get giddy about

    oh wait, it’s Time123….

    JF (ed6d57)

  537. Buduh, This is a lie. “The trail was wasting the country’s time so she acted.”

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  538. JF, who said I was giddy about it? I’m laughing at the conspiracy theorists on this. That’s a different thing.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  539. Good not backing up your claim, Time.

    BuDuh (340919)

  540. I will have to ignore you again for some Time. You are too excited at the moment.

    BuDuh (340919)

  541. You lied Buduh, she was clearly not saying she acted because the trial was wasting the countries time.

    She said the trial was wasting the countries time and the jury evaluated the evidence. How much explanation do you need about your lie?

    Just admit your claim was incorrect, pretend it wasn’t intentional on your part and move on.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  542. I am seeing reports that the teacher didn’t leave the door propped open at the school despite what the police stated. When a complete article is available, I will link it.

    BuDuh (340919)

  543. Here it is:

    A Robb Elementary School employee did not leave a door open to the building before last week’s deadly school shooting in Uvalde, her lawyer said, refuting authorities’ previous claims as the department faces backlash for its changing story around the massacre.

    Attorney Don Flanary told San Antonio Express-News reporter Guillermo Contreras on Tuesday that the unidentifiable employee did prop open a door to the school, but shut it when she saw the gunman, who eventually entered and massacred 19 children and two adults on May 24.

    Flanary told the Express-News that the employee remembers kicking away the rock used to prop open the door and pulling it shut as she spoke to police about the gunman shooting outside the school.

    “She remembers pulling the door closed while telling 911 that he was shooting,” he told the newspaper. “She thought the door would lock because that door is always supposed to be locked.”

    Director of Texas Department of Public Safety Steven McCraw alleged on Friday that security footage shows the back door of the school was propped open before the shooting, and the gunman used it to enter the school before barricading himself in a classroom.

    McCraw described the person who propped open the door as a teacher, who he said called police at 11:30 a.m. that morning after the gunman crashed his vehicle in a nearby ditch and shot at passersby.

    Three minutes later, McCraw said the gunman entered the school through the door.

    Texas Department of Public Safety didn’t immediately provide a response to the teacher’s claims.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  544. Thanks, Dana. It is incredible that facts like this are still in question after major press conferences.

    BuDuh (340919)

  545. Buduh, any response to your clear misrepresentation of the juror’s statement?

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  546. “It is incredible that facts like this are still in question after major press conferences.”

    The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety’s investigation into the massacre at Robb Elementary School and the state’s review of the law enforcement response, multiple law enforcement sources tell ABC News.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/uvalde-police-school-district-longer-cooperating-texas-probe/story?id=85093405

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  547. Apparently, municipal elections in Uvalde, Texas are like elections were in Ferguson, Missouri. Many people don’t vote maybe because 60 or more years ago, they couldn’t. or it was controlled by a machine.

    Peter Arredondo was scheduled to be sworn in today as one of the 5 members of the City Council elected on Saturday, May 7 to 4-year terms, but that ceremony has been postponed. (probably for all of them)

    But take a look noe at the (low) vote totals!

    https://www.newser.com/story/321172/uvalde-school-police-chief-due-to-take-on-new-role.html

    … Pedro “Pete” Arredondo, the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, was elected to one of five council seats on May 7 with 126 votes, “more than two-thirds of the total in the city of more than 15,000,” NBC News reports.

    Each of the 5 districts should have approximately 3,000 people. I read he got 70% of the vote, making for a total of about 180 votes cast. That makes for a voter turnout of about 6%.

    I bet, though, there was very little campaign spending, so some reformers aybe should be happy..

    “There is nothing in the city charter, election code, or Texas Constitution that prohibits him from taking the oath of office,” Mayor Don McLaughlin said Monday, adding there was no known investigation of the police chief.

    He probably can’t be recalled – there is no such thing in Texas.

    Arredondo, who has spent almost 30 years in law enforcement, including 16 with the Uvalde Police Department, hasn’t given a public statement since speaking at two short news conferences on the day of the shooting. Earlier this month, he told the Uvalde Leader-News that he was “ready to hit the ground running” as a member of the City Council. “I have plenty of ideas, and I definitely have plenty of drive,” he said, adding his focus would be on “smart spending” and “keeping our streets clean.”

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  548. Attorney Don Flanary told San Antonio Express-News reporter Guillermo Contreras on Tuesday that the unidentifiable employee did prop open a door to the school, but shut it when she saw the gunman, who eventually entered and massacred 19 children and two adults on May 24

    Somebody I know apparently heard aversion in which the murderer broke the lock. She assumed this as fact.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  549. Regarding the Sussman business, I’ll defer to an expert who knows a thing about criminal prosecutions and trials.

    Sussmann acquitted. Trumpers nationwide immediately declare the proceedings corrupt. The idea that the government had a bad case does not seem to have occurred to them.

    Enough with reflexive uninformed cynicism. We bathe in it daily. I’m sick of it.

    The whole reason for Durham’s existence in the first place was because of Trump’s vendetta against the FBI for the Mueller investigation, and he got his patsy AG to go along. The results of this witch hunt speaks for themselves…
    (1) Clinesmith was busted by IG Horowitz when he investigated Crossfire Hurricane, and the prosecution was passed on to Durham, so his pelt on this one belongs to Horowitz.
    (2) Sussman, acquitted.
    (3) Danchenko, indicted. My guess is he’ll cop to a guilty plea for lying.
    This all for an investigation that is on Day 1,105, which is 431 days longer than Mueller’s.
    My only misgiving is that Hillary wasn’t truly nailed more washing her campaign money through Perkins Coie to hire FusionGPS to dig up dirt on Trump.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  550. “It was the government’s job to prove it and they succeeded in some ways and not in others,” she continued. “We broke it down and it did not pan out in the government’s favor.”

    The defense introduced evidence that at least some FBI agents assumed that he was working for a client, so if they knew he had said he wasn’t, they didn’t believe him/.

    Also, the lie had to be material.

    What I say was that that question as to whether he was acting on behalf of a client was asked for a reason. But Durham didn’t argue that. The case was prosecuted on the basis of there being a naive FBI. It wasn’t naive.

    Now I think that Baker was maybe just covering himself and wanted to co-operate with the incoming administration

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  551. We know Sussman lied because he told that lie in a text message

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  552. Durham never got at the truth.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  553. More on Item No. 3:

    Guided U.S. Rockets Could Double Ukraine’s Strike Range
    ……..
    Officials said late Monday that the goal in sending the Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System—or GMLRS—is to boost Ukraine’s firepower against Russian troops who have invaded the country’s Donbas region, without enabling Kyiv to expand the war deep into Russian territory.
    ……..
    The rockets that are being sent have a much shorter range than the Army’s tactical-missile system, which can travel more than 185 miles and which the administration isn’t including in its next arms package for Ukraine.

    It couldn’t be determined how many of the GMLRS rockets the U.S. would provide. One official said they could arrive in Ukraine within weeks. Training on their use would begin quickly and take at least 10 days.

    The rockets would be outfitted on a wheeled launcher called the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System.
    …….
    U.S. officials said that the GMLRS will give Ukraine the capability to strike Russian targets throughout the Donbas area in eastern Ukraine.
    …….
    The administration has faced criticism on Capitol Hill from legislators who say it is moving too slowly on Ukraine’s weapon requests.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  554. Juror speaks to some media after Sussmann verdict
    “I don’t think it should have been prosecuted,” she said of the case. “There are bigger things that affect the nation than a possible lie to the FBI.”

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffMordock/status/1531683655843827715?cxt=HHwWhsC-7e6K0cEqAAAA

    The trail was wasting the country’s time so she acted.

    BuDuh (340919) — 5/31/2022 @ 12:32 pm

    And with that editorial comment, she blew a gaping hole in her impartiality.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  555. I laughed when part of the evidence was that Sussman billed for the time when he was supposedly acting as a concerned private citizen. Of course he did.

    Lawyers parse words for a living and I doubt anyone at the FBI asked Sussman a yes or no question he could be nailed down to. They probably either asked in a way that could be deflected, or didn’t ask at all.

    I also think his “information” didn’t mislead the FBI, in the sense that it did not take the FBI anywhere they weren’t willing to go.

    The person who looks worse and worse (if that is possible) is Hillary. Two completely despicable candidates. Trump and Hillary. FFS

    steveg (dbaf4e)

  556. There was a little bit of everything:
    1. Process crime.
    2. “He said”/”I did not” case.
    3. Political prosecution, no doubt about that.
    4. Hillary vs. Trump otra vez, they should get a room.
    5. DC jury.
    6. What difference at this point does it make?
    7. Waste of time and money.

    nk (fb96b0)

  557. steveg — But the question was asked for a reason, and the prosecution had him dead to rights:

    The billing records contradicted a text message he sent.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  558. 560. Surely the United States could reach an agreement with Ukraine not to fire any of these missiles into Russian territory (for now)

    I think what they may be wanting not to give is something else.

    Of course they’re afraid abbout the possibility of Putin going nuclear.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  559. Former New York City Police Commissioner Howard Safir is quoted by New York Post gossip columnist Cindy Adams as saying various things, including that he paid $2,000 down

    I don’t know where he gets his information or if it right or wrong but I did hear that he had posted a receipt for $1,800 and something — and I heard nothing about a receipt for the rest so it could be he got store credit.

    https://nypost.com/2022/05/30/regulate-assault-rifles-like-machine-guns-says-ex-nypd-commish-safir

    “Uvalde’s Salvador Ramos put $2,000 down, filled a voluntary form and got two legally purchased assault weapons plus 375 rounds of ammunition. That’s crazy. Mass school shootings since Columbine are mainly by 18 or younger males — with legally bought weapons of mass destruction.

    They are also done by people slightly older — except they tend to do it in colleges, rather than in K-12 schools.

    Or, if scared off they avoid educational institutions altogether.

    The Aurora, Colorado movie theater shooter was scared off after being banned from campus, and Dylan Roof in South Carolina also changed his target from a mainly black college to a church (probably figured that people in a church were much less likely to be armed).

    It’s not enough just to protect one place or type of place and call it a day.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  560. NorCal, had they said it before the trial I’d agree with you. But a juror who witnessed the trial coming to that conclusion isn’t unreasonable.

    Time123 (f4b1bd)

  561. Florida 5th grader arrested for mass shooting threat

    A fifth-grade student in Florida was arrested Saturday for threatening to pull off a mass shooting via text messages, police said.

    The 10-year-old boy, a student at Patriot Elementary School in Cape Coral, was handcuffed and walked into a police cruiser Saturday evening for making a written threat to conduct a mass shooting.
    ……..
    Detectives interviewed the Florida boy — whose name the Post is withholding because he is a minor — and developed probable cause for his arrest, police said.

    “Right now is not the time to act like a little delinquent. It’s not funny,” Marceno said. “This child made a fake threat, and now he’s experiencing real consequences.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  562. Time123 (9b76f4) — 5/31/2022 @ 2:21 pm

    This exchange gave me some new insight on why you never think you’re misrepresenting facts and also throw around that accusation like someone on a Mardi Gras float distributing beads to the crowd.

    Thanks

    After your run with the Rittenhouse case you’d think you’d be more careful with these.

    frosty (60b8b9)

  563. A juror has every right — in fact that’s what she’s there for — to sit through a trial for two weeks and listen to all the evidence and arguments, and come to the conclusion that it was a waste of her time, of the court’s time, of the country’s time, and that the prosecution should never have been brought.

    But Durham had no prosecutorial discretion. He had to throw Trump a bone.

    nk (fb96b0)

  564. Michael Sussmann’s not guilty verdict wasn’t a surprise. Here’s why

    The acquittal of Clinton lawyer Michael Sussmann by a Washington, D.C., jury comes as no surprise. In a false-statements case, the government has to prove that the statement in question was both false and material. Prosecutors had problems on both scores, especially the latter.

    On falsity, the government must establish beyond a reasonable doubt that an untrue statement was made. Here, although prosecutors had a text message – a statement, directly from Sussmann, in which he falsely claimed he was not representing any client in purveying to the FBI derogatory information about Donald Trump. But that is not how the case was indicted.

    Special counsel John Durham did not have the text message when the charge was filed in September 2021, flush up against the statute of limitations. Consequently, in March 2022, when he obtained a copy of the text from James Baker (the FBI’s former general counsel who received the text from Sussmann), Durham could not go back to the grand jury to add a new charge or substantially change the indictment.
    ……..
    The proof of this was not nearly as strong: It was a one-on-one meeting over five years ago, there was no recording or contemporaneous note-taking, and Baker’s accounts of what was said have varied over time. The text message before the meeting, coupled with the notes of FBI officials with whom Baker spoke immediately after the meeting, were evidence that Sussmann probably denied during the meeting that he was representing a client. But it was no sure thing.

    More of a problem for prosecutors was materiality – i.e., evidence that the false statement made a difference in how investigators handled the information.
    ……….
    Even worse, the FBI itself inserted a false statement in its investigation-opening documentations, ludicrously asserting that the information about Alfa Bank had come, not from Sussmann, but from the Department of Justice.

    Sussmann’s counsel were thus able to argue to the jury that the FBI agents who tried to investigate the Alfa Bank lead were misled by their own bosses in Washington, not by a well-known Democratic lawyer.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  565. Even worse, the FBI itself inserted a false statement in its investigation-opening documentations, ludicrously asserting that the information about Alfa Bank had come, not from Sussmann, but from the Department of Justice.

    The FBI wasn’t honest.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  566. Rip, as I’ve been saying; weak evidence.

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  567. Rip, as I’ve been saying; weak evidence.

    Time123 (9b76f4) — 5/31/2022 @ 4:06 pm

    Hard to convince some people here of that.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  568. Mon Dieu:

    WHO THREW THAT PIE??????????????????

    Mona Lisa Survives Pastry Attack From Louvre Visitor in Disguise

    Social media videos show Louvre staff cleaning cream off the painting’s protective glass.

    ‘A strange sight unfolded in videos shared on social media Sunday after a man dressed in a wig attempted to vandalize the Mona Lisa at the Louvre Museum in Paris.

    According to the AP, the man appeared to use a wig as a disguise and a wheelchair to get close to the painting before smearing a pastry on its case. Twitter user Lukeee posted a video of the man being escorted away while shouting a message exhorting people to think of the Earth, suggesting he may have had an environmental awareness motive for the attack.’

    https://www.cnet.com/culture/mona-lisa-survives-pastry-attack-from-louvre-visitor-in-disguise/

    “Bon appétit!” – Julia Child

    DCSCA (064ab0)

  569. Always some silly theory for how any results they dislike were arrived through fraud and a vast conspiracy. Good thing giving money to Trump/Bannon/Lindell will allow someone to fight back. 😀

    Time123 (f4b1bd)

  570. @576 That reminds me. I need to buy some more pillows.

    frosty (60b8b9)

  571. Trump threatens Pulitzer committee with legal action if they don’t rescind award for Russia probe coverage

    Former President Donald Trump is calling on the Pulitzer Prize Board to revoke prizes awarded to the New York Times and Washington Post in 2018 for their coverage of the Russia investigation, threatening legal action if they do not comply.
    ……..
    “There is no dispute that the Pulitzer Board’s award to those media outlets was based on false and fabricated information that they published,” the former president said. “The continuing publication and recognition of the prizes on the Board’s website is a distortion of fact and a personal defamation that will result in the filing of litigation if the Board cannot be persuaded to do the right thing on its own.”
    ……..
    “Together with the publications that have obsessively promulgated disgustingly false attacks against me, you have done all you can to destroy my reputation,” Trump said, asking, “how do I get my reputation back?”
    ##########


    Comedy gold!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  572. This all for an investigation that is on Day 1,105, which is 431 days longer than Mueller’s.
    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/31/2022 @ 2:57 pm

    if mueller had obtained zero convictions but got stone or manafort or whoever to assert on the stand that trump knew about the plan to hack emails in advance and greenlighted it, you’d be infinitely more pleased with his fishing expedition

    and it would be all you and the usuals here would talk about

    as it is, mueller didn’t get what durham got from mook so now it’s all convictions scoreboarding

    pathetic

    JF (ed6d57)

  573. It was groovy to see a few new pictures of Durham.🗽

    mg (8cbc69)

  574. JF, One difference being that trying to plant damaging stories, while scummy, isn’t illegal. Hacking the DNC server was.

    But this distinction is only important if you acknowledge the IG reports conclusions about the investigation into Russian actions and the Trump campaign. Which I don’t think you do.

    Time123 (f2fc26)

  575. Soon one will have to be a member of blm or antifa to own a gun.

    mg (8cbc69)

  576. At least nine people were killed and about 50 others wounded during the Memorial Day weekend, the traditional start of the Chicago’s summer events and violence.

    ‘Police Superintendent David Brown on Tuesday praised his officers for their work during the weekend where their off days were canceled, as scores of police hit street beats in congested areas to quell violence during the city’s first summer holiday since the lifting of pandemic restrictions.

    During the weekend, police seized 250 illegal firearms over the weekend, including 11 from beachgoers at North Avenue Beach on Monday. Chicago police reported nine homicides and 47 shooting victims through midnight Tuesday. Three more people were shot overnight in two separate incidents, bringing the total to 50, according to a review by the Tribune.’ – ChicagoTribune.com

    DCSCA (4443a4)

  577. The Democrats’ intention is to shred the Second Amendment. The playbook is there to read, but some congressional Republicans want to play paddy cake and make a deal. It’s a B.S. game. Never compromise on the Second Amendment. Never. Vote to chip away at it, and we’ll toss you out.

    Who’s “we?” I thought you already don’t vote for Republicans.

    As if you 81 million give a schiff.

    *Sigh.* It was a simple question. You could have just answered it. Or you could say “I’m not a serious person” without saying “I’m not a serious person.” I guess you made your choice.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  578. On a positive note. We won’t have to eat bugs until the zoo animals are consumed.

    mg (8cbc69)

  579. Coincidentally, the NY Times has a long article about The Wire, 20 years on, and how the decay it chronicled has just gotten worse.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  580. Soon one will have to be a member of blm or antifa to own a gun.

    That’s right up there on the belief-o-meter with TX and FL turning blue…though I used to consider AZ and GA part of that same red wall (from 2000 to 2016, only FL for Obama in both 08 and 12 for the 4 Sunbelts).

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  581. Sammy. That is the joke. Of course the lawyer billed for the time. The jurors would expect no less. My guess is Hillary isn’t asking for a refund, but they probably also sent her a case of Chardonnay (and billed that too)

    steveg (2a2ec7)

  582. Thank you for that linked article about The Wire @586, Kevin.

    I found it interesting that Simon said The Wire couldn’t be made today.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  583. Kevin Williamson on the misdirection that takes place when discussing gun laws:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/the-tuesday/what-the-gun-debate-misses/

    norcal (3f02c4)

  584. School police chief who just got secretly sworn in as city council man is all lawyered up and refusing to talk to authorities. Looks like the cops who waited outside for an hour are doing the same.

    asset (c41ee2)

  585. It’s a Texas border town. The local police probably have a lot of things that they don’t want the Texas Rangers to ask them about. Like, for example, how they can afford their houses, cars, jewelry, and vacations on their salaries.

    nk (054889)

  586. I see the Uvalde Police and Uvalde ISD have decided not to cooperate with any investigation. Hmmm. I’m assuming they are not concerned with what Uvalde citizens (other than LE) think about that. There are going to be some job openings at Uvalde PD and some cops should resign now and hope to keep as much of the stink off as possible unless they want to be long haul truck drivers based out of El Paso

    steveg (2a2ec7) — 5/31/2022 @ 6:09 pm

    long haul truck drivers based out of El Paso

    Euphemism, accompanied by a Norteno accordion riff?

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d) — 5/31/2022 @ 8:07 pm

    …proper rejoinder to your last post, nk

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  587. Following that train of thought:

    was a hit (on someone’s kid or wife) scheduled and “they”: 1.hired a known psycho for maximum plausible deniability or 2. were beaten to the punch by said psycho?

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  588. I am inclined to take it only as far as the question of how the monster got the money to buy the guns.

    You know, there’s a Greek folk saying, really there is: Twice a day, a rifle and a mule will think about killing its owner.

    nk (054889)

  589. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 5/31/2022 @ 7:31 am

    One option when reading the 2a is to use the same rules of interpretation for various sections. Doing everything possible to limit the 2a as much as possible would be inconsistent with the way we generally interpret the other amendments.

    The techniques used by the anti-2a people used more broadly would generate a very different interpretation of the bill of rights much less everything that comes in with the prenumbra.

    frosty (60b8b9)

  590. Good article from Chait about the Durham investigations recent court room loss.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/05/john-durham-michael-sussman-verdict-not-guilty-russia-alfabank-trump-barr-fbi-clinton.html

    Donald Trump and William Barr have spent years alleging that the Russia investigation was a criminal plot by the FBI. The Department of Justice’s inspector general found the Russia investigation was adequately predicated, but Barr disagreed. So he selected a prosecutor, John Durham, who would supposedly uncover this scheme and begin frog-marching its perpetrators to justice.

    By 2020, Barr was conceding that Durham might not reach all the way up to Barack Obama but would bring down his accomplices. “As to President Obama and Vice-President Biden,” he said that spring, “whatever their level of involvement, based on the information I have today, I don’t expect Mr. Durham’s work will lead to a criminal investigation of either man. Our concern over potential criminality is focused on others.” By the fall, Barr was reportedly “communicating that Durham is taking his investigation extremely seriously and is focused on winning prosecutions.”

    Time123 (9b76f4)

  591. We see it time, after time, after time.
    It’s all about the donut munchers.
    Their primary purpose out there is to earn their daily donuts and to keep themselves safe so they can eat them.
    Burning a baby’s face off with a flashbang while executing a warrant for a small-time drug dealer.
    Killing a sleeping woman in a no-knock at the wrong address, ditto.
    And lots worse.
    All the people they shoot.
    All the people they let get shot.
    Because it’s the protocol.
    So they can have their donut.

    nk (47a5bc)

  592. if mueller had obtained zero convictions but got stone or manafort or whoever to assert on the stand that trump knew about the plan to hack emails in advance and greenlighted it, you’d be infinitely more pleased with his fishing expedition

    Your argument, such as it is JF, is based completely on hypotheticals and mindreading. Do better.

    Doing everything possible to limit the 2a as much as possible would be inconsistent with the way we generally interpret the other amendments.

    We’re not disagreeing, frosty. It’s why I said to AJ that I’m on the side of “as little regulations/restrictions as necessary”.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  593. Time123 (9b76f4) — 6/1/2022 @ 6:06 am

    i’m especially keen on the take of someone like chait who wrote a piece “The Steele Dossier on Trump and Russia Is Looking More and More Real“

    and unlike chait and many commenters here like yourself, with clinton and the whole bogus dossier pedigree exposed by sworn testimony, barr and durham haven’t had to adjust their expectations quite so dramatically

    sussmann’s conviction actually would’ve been the better result for you and chait, since at least it would’ve established that the fbi was hoodwinked by a liar

    have you come up with alternatives yet?

    JF (68f6a5)

  594. Really interesting article about a shooting of one of the actors in the wire. It’s written by a journalist that served on the Jury

    https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/moral-sussmann-trial-americans-see-lying-dc-norm-making

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  595. Your argument, such as it is JF, is based completely on hypotheticals and mindreading. Do better.

    you’re totally correct, montagu

    but it’s not my problem that all of your wet dreams over the years have been reduced to hypotheticals

    JF (68f6a5)

  596. but it’s not my problem that all of your wet dreams over the years have been reduced to hypotheticals

    From hypothetical to dishonest. Even more lame, JF.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  597. JF, go read the IG report on crossfire Hurricane.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  598. JF I’ll make it easier for you.

    Crossfire Hurricane was started in July of 2016.
    Sussman spoke to the FBI in September of 2016.

    Unless you think time travel was involved Sussamn’s statement couldn’t have motivated the FBI to open their investigation.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  599. JF, go read the IG report on crossfire Hurricane.
    Time123 (fcfc1c) — 6/1/2022 @ 7:13 am

    sure, I’ll read it again for you

    but, I don’t recall it mentioning anything about sussmann or his work for clinton and the steele dossier and the bureau granting confidential informant status

    but it must be in there, cuz you’re not the type to dodge a direct question

    to believe the verdict is to believe that the bureau knew sussmann was billing clinton for his steele dossier nonsense and the fbi ran with it anyway

    sounds like what a lot of folks have been saying for years

    JF (68f6a5)

  600. Time123 (fcfc1c) — 6/1/2022 @ 7:22 am

    i never once said that the steele dossier was the impetus for the investigation

    you’re making things up

    JF (68f6a5)

  601. @605 crossfire hurricane was predicated on different nonsense

    but, let’s assume it was totally legit

    that is irrelevant to what happened when sussmann pedaled a separate set of nonsense

    so did he deceive the bureau, or did the bureau know his schtick and went with it anyway?

    let me know

    JF (68f6a5)

  602. @607 If you’re not saying that Sussman was part of the predicate for the investigation then I’m not clear on what wrongdoing you’re alleging.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  603. 554. I wrote:

    Each of the 5 districts should have approximately 3,000 people. I read he got 70% of the vote, making for a total of about 180 votes cast. That makes for a voter turnout of about 6%.

    This is an error. Not everyone was of voting age or registered. Turnout was more like 15%.

    (The population was almost 100% U.S. citizens snd living there for generations.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  604. EXCLUSIVE: Hunter’s search history reveals his obsession with porn and sex fantasies including ’18yrs old,’ ‘lonely widow’ and ‘MILF crack cocaine porn,’ he uploaded his OWN amateur videos and texted Pornhub link to phone listed in his contacts as ‘Dad’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10846603/Hunter-Bidens-search-history-reveals-obsession-porn.html

    Probably Russian disinformation.

    BuDuh (340919)

  605. Who amongst us?

    Davethulhu (ee3282)

  606. He’s not as pretty as Melania, but probably a lot fewer people saw him before the Daily Mail peepshow.

    nk (62fb95)

  607. Biden Complains That White House Staff Keep Draping Flags Over Him Every Time He Naps

    WASHINGTON, D.C—According to sources, President Joe Biden has been complaining that his staff keeps draping flags over him whenever he naps, apparently mistaking him for a dead person.

    “Hey folks, I’m not dead! I’m just resting my eyes a little! Know the difference, Jack!” said a frustrated Biden. “Whenever I’m napping, just bring your ear really close to my nose and you’ll hear me breathing. I might even wake up and sniff ya! Come on, man!”

    According to anonymous staffers, people often stumble upon Biden as he’s napping on a couch or in the middle of the hall, and mistakenly think they’ve happened upon a body. “It’s the decent thing to do when you see the corpse of a president, to show it honor by draping the stars and strips over it,” said one staffer. “It’s an honest mistake.”

    Other staffers say they do it to hide the sleeping president when ambassadors or heads of state are in the White House.

    “Sometimes, we have to cover up the president,” said VP Kamala Harris. “Because he’s sleeping. Sleep is when you close your eyes for a very long time. And when you’re sleeping sometimes you wake up. Sleep is important for Biden because he’s very old. Old people have grey hair. Biden is sleeping now. Basically, that’s bad.”

    Biden could not be reached for further comment, as he was sleeping, or possibly dead.

    https://babylonbee.com/news/biden-complains-that-white-house-staff-drapes-flags-over-him-every-time-he-naps/

    The photo in the piece is hilarious.

    DCSCA (5da801)

  608. Nothing like voyeurs peeping in on a voyeur, Davethulhu.

    I didn’t like it when they pulled that sh!t on Madison Cawthorne, either. WTF is it in aid of?

    nk (62fb95)

  609. Genius at work

    Reporter: Why didn’t you move quicker on the baby formula shortage?

    Biden: “I don’t think anyone anticipated the impact of the shutdown of Abbott facility.”

    Reporter: “Didn’t the CEOs just tell you they understood it would have a very big impact?”

    Biden:”They did but I didn’t”

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1532087224342298626

    steveg (3cd664)

  610. update: Tulsa hospital shootings; NBC reports at least 3 dead. Multiple casualties. Shooter w/rifle killed.

    DCSCA (5da801)

  611. Hillary made Trump look like the lesser of two evils in 2016. Biden started off 2021 with the win but since then is really making it a race for the bottom.

    steveg (3cd664)

  612. If the FBI and Perkins Coie worked together to exploit the data portal its just par for the course that people like Margot Cleveland, Andrew McCarthy, Johnathan Turley and many others would need to deny in order to retain the cocktail circuit and institutional credibility. sigh.

    mg (8cbc69)

  613. 5 people dead at Tulsa medical building, in the 233rd mass shooting of 2022

    “Tulsa police confirmed that a shooter killed four people at Saint Francis Hospital in Tulsa, Okla., on Wednesday. “Four innocents and one shooter” are dead, Jonathan Brooks of the Tulsa police department said at a news conference on Wednesday.

    Police have not yet identified the shooter and said that he died following a self-inflicted gunshot wound. The shooter had a rifle and a handgun on him, Brooks said. Tulsa police said in a Facebook post just before 6 p.m. that the shooter was dead.

    “Officers are currently going through every room in the building checking for additional threats,” police said at the time. “We know there are multiple injuries, and potentially multiple casualties.”

    Tulsa police Capt. Richard Meulenberg said multiple people were wounded; he called it a “catastrophic scene.” St. Francis Health System locked down its campus Wednesday afternoon because of the situation at the Natalie Medical Building. The Natalie building houses an outpatient surgery center and a breast health center. Aerial footage from a TV helicopter appeared to show first responders wheeling someone on a stretcher away from the hospital building.”

    https://www.npr.org/2022/06/01/1102539255/multiple-people-shot-medical-building-tulsa-oklahoma

    You know why it keeps hurting when you hit yourself in the forehead w/a 2X4 over and over? Because hitting yourself repeatedly in the forehead w/a 2X4 always hurts.

    DCSCA (fa9619)

  614. BIDEN: “Today we’re announcing the United Airlines has agreed to offer cargo space…for the delivery of 3.7 bottles of the formula.
    81 million are dumber than dirt.

    mg (8cbc69)

  615. If you can catch any of it, watch Queen Elizabeth II Platinum Jubilee 2022 ‘Trooping the Colour’ – it’s a spectacular display as only the Brits can do.

    DCSCA (c990c8)

  616. Illegal ballot harvester in AZ
    https://apnews.com/article/arizona-presidential-elections-conspiracy-election-2020-government-and-politics-65a3f0f130905dd7151e5189e7242784

    Looks like they can only prove 50 votes but am glad to see its not being swept under the rug

    steveg (8e30b1)

  617. Biden to address nation AGAIN tonight on gun violence.

    With soaring inflation and gas prices, plummeting poll numbers in free fall on all fronts while at the same time shipping billions in free weapons to Ukraine– aiding the very sort of violence he condemns at home– Squinty McStumblebum desperately is grabbing at politicizing anything to stay afloat– even the victims of gun violence. His party has control of the Congress and he is the POTUS, yet cries impotence for poor job performance. ‘Can’t do anything’ – is the whine, about rising fuel costs, food prices, or anything else.

    That’s 50 years of government swamp experience on display. Once a senator, always a senator. POTUS LBJ got in faces, twisted arms, cut deals and got things done. Hell, POTUS Truman fired a general in the midst of a war for insubordination. They got things done. Leadership takes balls. POTUS Biden doesn’t have the legs to walk up a flight of stairs.

    DCSCA (19ac70)

  618. His party has control of the Congress…..

    Barely, and that’s a good thing.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  619. Really good story SteveG. Thank you for sharing.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  620. @627. Regardless- they control it– and a pro would put that to work; to feign ‘I can do nothing; don’t cut the mustard in 2022 Populist USA. America was better off when Trump was in office. And if the whiny, conservative ideologues turncoats had backed their party nominee and re-upped him, you’d only have two years left of the show. Instead, they fueled this hell.

    DCSCA (4b1e14)

  621. Looks like they can only prove 50 votes but am glad to see its not being swept under the rug

    They checked 50 ballots for fingerprints but “records show that fewer than a dozen ballots could be linked to Fuentes”, but it’s no less reason for prosecutors to throw the book at her.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  622. Regardless- they control it– and a pro would put that to work…..

    I don’t want them to do anything…..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  623. Washington (State) ‘election integrity’ group and lawyer fined for meritless vote fraud lawsuit
    The Washington Election Integrity Coalition United was ordered to pay nearly $9,600, and its Sequim-based attorney, Virginia Shogren, was ordered to pay nearly $18,800 for suing Gov. Jay Inslee in October.

    Those fines were imposed last month and announced Wednesday by Attorney General Bob Ferguson’s office, which defended Inslee in the case. Ferguson said his office also intends to file a bar complaint against Shogren.
    ……..
    Loren Culp, the Republicans’ 2020 gubernatorial candidate who lost by 545,000 votes, filed a lawsuit alleging widespread fraud, only to drop the case after a threat of legal sanctions against his attorney for making baseless claims in a court of law.

    In the latest case, the election integrity coalition had petitioned the state Supreme Court in October, seeking a ruling that Inslee violated his constitutional duties by allegedly allowing or encouraging the state Department of Licensing to register noncitizens to vote. The court dismissed the case earlier this year — and took the unusual step of granting the state’s motion to impose sanctions over its frivolous nature.

    In its motion for sanctions, Ferguson’s office wrote that the petition was “so devoid of legal merit that there was no reasonable possibility that it would have been successful.” The motion noted the petition had been based in large part on unsworn statements by a retired Department of Licensing employee who made “dubious” assumptions about citizenship status of people based on ethnicity.
    ……..
    Six of those lawsuits are still pending in U.S. District Court for Western Washington — and could result in additional sanctions against the coalition and Shogren.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  624. I don’t want them to do anything…..

    Except “give” $53 billion in goodies charged to Uncle Sam’s Chinese-finance credit card to non-taxpaying, non-U.S. citizens in Ukraine, eh. 😉

    DCSCA (cc0cd1)

  625. “We are in a war.”- Leon Panetta 6/2/22

    Really? When did POTUS ask for Congress to declare war, Leon? Wjhen did Ukrainian War Bonds go on sale, Leon?

    IDIOT.

    DCSCA (cc0cd1)

  626. Gasoline today at local station close to home: $6.66/gal., reg.; $6.86/gal., hi-test; $6.96/gal., premium

    Hey Joe: “We’re out of corn flakes. F.U.”

    “It took me three hours to figure out that ‘F.U.’ was Felix Unger!” = Oscar Madison [Walter Matthau] ‘The Odd Couple’ 1968

    DCSCA (cc0cd1)

  627. Inside the House’s gun strategy-Punchbowl News
    ……..
    Faced with this seemingly unending stream of bloodshed, Democrats are proposing the most sweeping set of gun-control bills taken up by Congress in decades, although there’s no chance of overcoming Senate Republican opposition to enact most of these proposals into law.

    In the package being marked up today, Democrats want to bar the sale of semi-automatic rifles to anyone under 21; ban high-capacity ammunition magazines; prohibit the sales of “ghost gun” kits without a background check or serial numbers stamped on the parts used in assembling the weapon; boost penalties for illegal “straw purchases” of guns; and require gun owners to store their weapons safely, especially when minors are present.
    …….
    House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer has also set a vote for next week on a “red flag” bill offered by Rep. Lucy McBath (D-Ga.), whose son was shot to death a decade ago. That legislation – which calls for the removal of guns from those deemed dangerous to themselves or others – will be twinned with a bill by Rep. Salud Carbajal (D-Calif.) to encourage states to enact their own red flags laws. Nineteen states currently have such laws. ……
    ……..
    Rep. Jim Jordan, the top Republican on the Judiciary Committee, was sharply critical of the Democratic package during an interview with Fox News on Tuesday. Here’s Jordan:

    “I think it’s just wrong to attack the Second Amendment liberties of law-abiding citizens, and that’s what these bills do. The answer is to make sure you have school facilities secured, and you have security officers who are trained and well-equipped to protect kids and teachers and the educational environment – not these various bills that they’ve piled into one hodgepodge package.”

    ……..

    Swinging for the fences and whiffing……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  628. Except “give” $53 billion in goodies charged to Uncle Sam’s Chinese-finance credit card to non-taxpaying, non-U.S. citizens in Ukraine, eh. 😉

    You are correct, sir!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  629. 96 year old Queen Elizabeth II has a 75% approval rating in the United States.

    Nearly 80 year old POTUS Joe Biden averages a 41% approval and 53% disapproval.

    DCSCA (cc0cd1)

  630. @637. So, in fact, you contradicted yourself and don’t want them to ‘do nothing.’ Thanks for playing.

    DCSCA (cc0cd1)

  631. @637. So, in fact, you contradicted yourself and don’t want them to ‘do nothing.’ Thanks for playing.

    Nothing on any issue except defending Ukraine, esp. guns.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  632. Rep. Jim Jordan, the top Republican on the Judiciary Committee, was sharply critical of the Democratic package during an interview with Fox News on Tuesday.

    Here’s Jordan:

    “I think it’s just wrong to attack the Second Amendment liberties of law-abiding citizens, and that’s what these bills do. The answer is to make sure you have school facilities secured, and you have security officers who are trained and well-equipped to protect kids and teachers and the educational environment

    That’s not exactly the best answer.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/opinion/school-shootings-gun-reform.html

    At the same time, I also have no interest in the apparent conservative desire — or least the Ted Cruzian desire — to turn America’s schools into a zone of overpolicing, duck-and-cover fearfulness and military-level vigilance. Yes, there are schools in high-crime areas that need a police presence and there are school buildings well suited to have a single, secured entrance. But beyond these basics, the potential ubiquity of armed security and active-shooter drills is its own sacrifice of liberty, and even if the right to a demilitarized childhood isn’t enumerated in the Constitution, it should be treasured and preserved.

    Conservatives and libertarians should be especially aware of this, given that they have spent two years arguing, reasonably, that the infliction of Covid security theater on children does more harm than good. If that logic applies to the low risk to children from the virus, it surely applies to the low risk of school terrorism as well. And Covid theater, at least, did not risk spreading the virus further, whereas I strongly suspect that a constant childhood drumbeat about the risks of school massacres contributes to the dark romance of the deed — especially among those unhappy kids for whom K-12 education feels like a prison anyway, with or without metal detectors.

    So in some sense it would be better to just stop reminding people of these things, like we don’t publicize death threats or like the way the Wall Street community handled the 1920 bombing — they made a memorial but never mentioned it to anyone.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  633. @640… and Putin smiled. As Xi grinned.

    DCSCA (cc0cd1)

  634. Re: Uvalde, Texas events:

    I think the lying we are seeing here must be the tip of the iceberg. The initial stories were so wildly divergent from the truth that the people in law enforcement there must routinely lie.

    Updates:

    1. The door was not propped open, but the lock maybe didn’t work.

    “After examining video evidence we were able to conclude that after propping the door open with a rock, the teacher ran back inside when she saw the shooter, and removed the rock and the door shut,” Mr. Considine said. “Investigators are now looking at why the door did not lock properly when it was shut.”

    Was the lock known to be broken or not work automatically when the door was shut? Or was it turned off for the day because people were going in and out that day?

    2. The husband of one of the two teachers killed was a policeman. She was talking to him after the events started — nobody in the media has how that call fits into the time line. Other policemen stopped him from going in.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/us/uvalde-shooting.html

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  635. @640… and Putin smiled…

    More like grimacing through his cancer treatments:

    ………
    Our guys were right all along about Russia’s plans for Ukraine earlier this year, leaving Putin reportedly “incandescent” with rage that the Americans had penetrated the Kremlin’s security apparatus so thoroughly. If our sources are capable of reading Putin’s battle plans, maybe they’re capable of reading his medical charts too.

    And there are enough rumors about his poor health lately from other outlets to suggest there’s some sort of fire that’s causing all this smoke. Three weeks ago Ukraine’s intelligence chief claimed Putin is in a “very bad psychological and physical condition and he is very sick.” The day before that, New Lines reported that it had obtained audio of a Russian oligarch telling a friend during casual conversation that the tsar was “very ill with blood cancer.” Then there was the expose in early April from the Russian news source Proekt speculating that Putin has thyroid cancer since he’s spent an unusual amount of time in the company of specialists in that field.

    ……..William Arkin of Newsweek reports:

    …….The classified U.S. report says Putin seems to have re-emerged after undergoing treatment in April for advanced cancer, three U.S. intelligence leaders who have read the reports tell Newsweek.

    The assessments also confirm that there was an assassination attempt on Putin’s life in March, the officials say.

    The high-ranking officials, who represent three separate intelligence agencies, are concerned that Putin is increasingly paranoid about his hold on power, a status that makes for a rocky and unpredictable course in Ukraine. But it is one, they say, that also makes the prospects of nuclear war less likely.
    ………

    ………
    According to Arkin, an intelligence report issued two weeks before this one said Putin was “gravely ill.” The latest one appears to have backed off the “gravely” part. It also corroborates what Ukraine’s intelligence chief alleged about an assassination plot aimed at Putin towards the start of the war. That plot obviously failed, but “[t]he CIA and foreign intelligence services were picking up consistent stories of discord at the top of the national security ministries, as well as the desire on the part of Russian diplomats to defect to the west,” per Arkin.
    ………
    The good news, as noted by Arkin, is that a sick Putin might be less likely to be obeyed by his deputies if he gives any reckless orders. It’s one thing to end civilization on a single man’s whims, it’s another to do so on the whims of a man whom you know to be ill and under the influence of medication.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  636. Some things should be made clear about the police:

    There were police surrounding the building and forming a perimeter – that’s all the parents saw – AND there were police inside the building outside the classroom.

    Pedro “Pete” Arredondo was the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, which consists of only six people – him and 5 others – one chief and 5 “Indians” This is completely separate from the Uvalde police department responsible to the mayor. (There is also “judge” of Uvalde county a judge in the sense that Harry S Truman in Missouri was once a judge. It’s an executive position. The judge in Uvalde county is equivalent to a county executive.)

    More updates:

    3. Pedro “Pete” Arredondo was sworn in to the City Council on Wednesday, one day later than scheduled. t was a non public ceremony. I don’t know whether the City Council position is paid or unpaid,or perhaps paid only a per diem.

    4. Arredondo spoke to reporters and they somehow misunderstood him as saying he was co-operating with the he Texas Department of Public Safety. Actually all he said was that he was daily contact with them.

    5. The Texas Department of Public Safety announced yesterday that they would stop giving briefings — everything has been turned over to the district attorney, Christina M. Busbee, and she’s not saying anything. There is also a separate investigation going on, which started Sunday, by the federal Department of Justice.

    6. A “hostage negotiator” stationed in the funeral parlor across the street, was attempting to call the shooter – he had no success beyond possibly him answering the call and hanging up. (this must be clarified)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  637. 7. More about the criminal record of the shooter’s family was revealed.

    First, before this, his grandfather said (earlier) that he was not allowed to have guns in his house and he would have reported it to the police (or got rid of them?) had he known.

    https://nypost.com/2022/05/31/family-of-uvalde-school-shooter-salvador-ramos-have-criminal-records/

    His grandmother, Celia “Sally” Martinez Gonzales, who was shot in the head and is reported not to be able to speak but communicating in writing now (because of surgery? The bullet went into her jaw and shattered all her teeth) was convicted of an unspecified misdemeanor in 1993 in connection with a June 9, 1993, arrest. She was sentenced to a maximum of two years of probation, and had to pay a court fine of $500 and court fees of $157. Court records don’t indicate what this was all about.

    His mother, Adriana Martinez, was charged with the very old-fashioned crime of writing a bad check – for all of $22.62 – to a general store in Uvalde on June 30, 2003, around the time Salvador Ramos Jr. was born. She was in financial difficulty at the time. Nowadays we use debit cards and this can’t happen. Her income at that time was $500 a month from her job at Golden Dragon restaurant in Uvalde and she was also getting $223 in public assistance and $269 in food stamps. She reported being single on the government documents, and was living in an apartment that housed six people when she passed the bad check.

    She pled guilty on Sept. 27, 2005, and was fined $250, plus court costs of $218, and sentenced to 180 days in jail. However, since she pleaded guilty, she was instead placed on probation with a required 25 hours of community service.

    Then in 2007, an assault charge was filed against her, alleging that she caused bodily harm to a family member. The charges were dismissed on Sept. 26, 2007 in exchange for enrolling in anger management counseling and she also had to pay $1,928 to the County Attorney’s Office and other court fees. I don’t know if that was in turn replaced with community service.

    His father, Salvador Ramos Sr. pleaded no contest to resisting arrest in 2000 (underlying reason for the arrest not specified) He apparently struggled with officer Daniel Rodriguez and made a run for it. He was sentenced to 180 days in county jail and had to apologize in writing to the Uvalde PD.

    Then, following an April 9, 2011 incident he was charged with a felony: aggravated Assault with a deadly weapon. He was indicted on July 2, 2012, indictment for striking a man named Enrique Jesus Perez with a beer bottle. Ramos was ordered to stay away from the victim and had to submit to drug and alcohol testing.

    He again eventually pleaded no contest, and the charge was later dropped to a class A misdemeanor. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail, but the judge agreed that Ramos could do his time on weekends. He also had to undergo a substance abuse treatment program.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  638. Here’s a story that should bring cheer to most readers:

    A Washington state Guardsman received a phone call from a Ukrainian who has an issue with the Javelin. Guardsman talked him through it. 30 minutes later, Guardsman gets a call from the Ukrainian who just blew up a Russia vehicle.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  639. A Washington state Guardsman received a phone call from a Ukrainian who has an issue with the Javelin. Guardsman talked him through it. 30 minutes later, Guardsman gets a call from the Ukrainian who just blew up a Russia vehicle.

    Sick.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  640. What’s sick about it?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  641. party like it’s gulf war 2003 again

    JF (5d37c0)

  642. “What’s sick about it?”

    DCCCP is obviously rooting for the Russians. He clearly doesn’t take the time to express his outrage when Ukrainian women and children are abused and killed by Russian soldiers.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  643. Nowadays we use debit cards and this can’t happen.

    There are people who still use checks at the supermarket.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  644. @651: I wanted to give him a chance to extricate his soul by at least claiming he meant “sick” approvingly.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  645. The movie the 10th victim is the answer to those who want to buy assault rifles. you must hunt down 5 owners of assault guns and then 5 owners of assault guns get to hunt you down. Just like in the movie. Again like in the movie gun manufactures can sponsor players.

    asset (30e08e)

  646. @649. If you gotta ask it’s above your paygrade.

    @651. Pfft. $53 billion freebees. There’s your outrage,. AJ.

    “I guess horrible things happen in war.” – Reporter, ‘The Green Berets’ 1968

    DCSCA (2a0a36)

  647. @653. My soul is clean; save the ‘slaughterhouse jive’- phoning in killing is sick.

    DCSCA (2a0a36)

  648. If giving victims of a genocidal invasion the means to defend themselves is sick, what do you call leaving them to the tender mercies of the invaders?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  649. Were Russian children in that bombing?

    mg (8cbc69)

  650. 658- asking for a friend

    mg (8cbc69)

  651. @657. ‘Giving’ $53 billion, borrowed from an adversary known for their own genocidal killings, to “give” to non-U.S. citizens who pay no U.S., taxes and serve no national interest to the United States when your own country is deep in debt and deficits and literally slaughtering their own children with kindred weaponry in schools, churches, hospitals and supermarkets– and boasting about “phoning it in” to kill others… yeah, that’s pretty damn ‘sick.’

    Three people dead after shooting in Iowa church parking lot

    (Reuters) -A man shot and killed two women in the parking lot of a church in Iowa state on Thursday and then turned the gun on himself, police said, adding three more dead to the toll in a series of recent shootings that have rocked the United States. The Iowa shooting took place shortly after President Joe Biden delivered a major address on gun violence in the wake of mass shootings in Buffalo, New York; Uvalde, Texas, and Tulsa, Oklahoma, in recent weeks.

    Meanwhile another shooting on Thursday wounded two people attending a burial at cemetery in Racine, Wisconsin. The Iowa shooting took place outside Cornerstone Church, a fundamentalist Christian church east of the city of Ames, while a church program was on inside, said Nicholas Lennie, chief deputy of the Story County Sheriff’s Office. When deputies arrived on scene they found all three dead, Lennie said, adding that he could not provide identities nor disclose what the relationship between them may have been. This appears to be an isolated, single-shooter incident,” Lennie said.

    Moments before, Biden urged Congress to ban assault weapons, expand background checks and implement other gun control measures to address the mass shootings. “Enough, enough!,” the president said.

    The United States has been shaken in recent weeks by the mass shootings that killed 10 Black residents in upstate New York, 19 children and two teachers in Texas, and two doctors, a receptionist and a patient in Oklahoma. In Racine, Wisconsin, on Thursday, multiple gunshots were fired into a crowd of mourners attending an afternoon grave-side funeral, wounding two people, Racine police Sergeant Kristi Wilcox told reporters. One victim was treated at a local hospital and released, the other was flown to a Milwaukee hospital, apparently suffering more serious injuries, Wilcox said. No suspect was taken into custody.’ – Reuters.com

    DCSCA (2a0a36)

  652. David Gergen please pick up the courtesy phone. Hack Biden is calling.

    mg (8cbc69)

  653. The Waldo Lydecker shtick does wear thin.

    You’d think that they would realize that faced with the things they’re aimlessly carping about — school shootings, the baby formula shortage, tthe high oil prices, the high food prices, the Russian threat — we don’t have time for their minces and flounces too.

    nk (6f4311)

  654. There are a lot of shootings in New \York that are like the movies.

    The bad guys almost always miss their intended targets,

    They sometimes hit unintended ones.

    They are new to guns.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  655. Kevin M: There are people who still use checks at the supermarket.

    I think that’s true. It is not completely over. Usually this is a long time customer.

    If you use a debit card, often the amount that will reduce the balance to nothing is taken from the account — the rest you have to pay another way

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  656. Aw, fer! The mother and the sperm donor never killed 19 kids. This was a mutant freak. A bad seed. Nobody’s fault except his own evil nature.

    nk (6f4311)

  657. The country is a cesspool.

    It is, when you see an idiot writing for a rag that has “thinker” in its name trying to resuscitate a debunked conspiracy theory, with zero new evidence.
    The Rich family received a nice financial settlement from FoxNews when Hannity would not shut up with his baseless claims.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  658. What’s pissing me off at the moment is one of Arrendodo’s political cronies blowing smoke by claiming that Arrendodo was not told about the 911 calls from inside the school. Ay, caramba!

    nk (6f4311)

  659. DCCCP: “Pfft. $53 billion freebees.”

    The United States signed the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances for Ukraine. It was a commitment to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity as well as not to use force, or threaten to use force, against Ukraine. In exchange, Ukraine got rid of 1,900 strategic nuclear warheads that could target America. This was of key interest in 1994. Russia signed the memo too and have obviously broken the deal. We owe Ukraine support.

    We have an interest in not seeing eastern europe dominated or bullied by an authoritarian Russia. We want to send an unambiguous signal to Russia that it does not have free reign in the Baltics. We want to reassure our NATO allies of our defensive commitment. We would prefer Ukraine to win this war rather than have to deploy more troops to reinforce NATO. We have an interest in supporting a western-leaning young democracy that wants to join the EU and grow economically. We have an interest in seeing norms on sovereignty not violated. We have an interest in sending a clear message to China about naked aggression. We have an interest in minimizing a world-wide wheat shortage by helping Ukraine to expel Russia. We have an interest in alleviating the massive refugee problem this invasion has caused. We have an interest in countering the false narratives of Ukraine nazism that Russia is pushing as justification. We have an interest in opposing genocides where all the above interests also hold. Now is not the time to extort our NATO allies. Now is not the time to appease Putin and blind our eyes to tragedy. We have an interest in weakening Russia’s hand and delivering a high cost without committing our troops directly.

    I know this will only register a pfft or a yawn from old DCCCP. That’s ok. Such verbal farts just reveal an absence of argument…and signal the end of the actual debate….

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  660. We have an interest in not seeing eastern europe dominated or bullied by an authoritarian Russia.

    No, AJ. WEALTHY MODERN EUROPE has an interest in not seeing eastern europe dominated or bullied by an authoritarian Russia.

    The folks with the modern militaries; the national healthcare systems and efficient infrastructures; the folks who take the month of August off for vacation; the folks who dealt w/that same Russia for their energy needs; the folks who’ve been bailed out three times by U.S. blood and treasure over the past 110 years alone. And given those two major land wars and a Cold War- and now a third land war- in that time frame, it’s past time those rich and well armed nations managed themselves and their petty regional affairs on their own time and their own dime. The United States is not the world’s policeman, AJ.

    With $53 billion ‘borrowed’ from your chief 21st century adversary on the rise who wants to maintain control over your fiscal balls and keep you declining- billions literally ‘given away’ to non-citizens, non-taxpayers who can’t be held accountable for that debt, you have no argument, AJ.

    DCSCA (a51ee4)

  661. @663. ‘Waldo Lydecker’ was a murderer.

    DCSCA (a51ee4)

  662. “With $53 billion ‘borrowed’ from your chief 21st century adversary”

    China holds less than 4% of our debt, stop exaggerating. Again, you were perfectly fine in running up $5T in Covid debt and appear perfectly fine for fighting for Taiwan. You’re just impotent with Putin.

    “the folks who’ve been bailed out three times by U.S. blood and treasure”

    Well Hitler did declare war on us. Also, had we not intervened, how long would England have held out and what kind of continent would it have been dominated by Nazis and Communists? We shouldn’t feel ashamed for helping to stabilize the world, then counter the Soviet menace. Again, virtually no blood invested in Ukraine. We spent $4T on WW2 which is closer to $40T in today’s dollars. $53B is a rounding error in strategic terms. Get a grip.

    “The folks with the modern militaries”

    Yes, our allies should do more, but that’s not an excuse to give in to tyranny….or to leave NATO, ala Trump. Both are short sighted. EU countries are already absorbing large energy bills by severing their energy dependence on Russia, isolating Russia with sanctions, and contributing what military resources that they have. There is an inertia to both energy and national defense. You are too willing to sacrifice Ukraine to make a political point and allow Russia to rub against Poland and Romania. Most of the world is not….come join us

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  663. Here’s another story that should bring cheer to most readers:

    Some Russian troops are refusing to return to fight in Ukraine because of their experiences on the front line at the start of the invasion, according to Russian human rights lawyers and activists. The BBC has been speaking to one such soldier.

    “I don’t want to go [back to Ukraine] to kill and be killed,” says Sergey – not his real name – who spent five weeks fighting in Ukraine earlier this year.

    He is now home in Russia, having taken legal advice to avoid being sent back to the front line. Sergey is just one of hundreds of Russian soldiers understood to have been seeking such advice.

    There’s much more in the BBC story, including this: ” . . . Russian military law does include clauses which allow soldiers to refuse to fight if they don’t want to.”

    (If possible, I would like to see us support Ukraine by providing leaflet shells like those we used in World War II, and other ways to get the truth to the Russian soldiers.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  664. @672. Pfft. So your whining about the United States government helping Americans as the PRIOTITY for the American citizens while you prefer to literally give freebees, borrowed at U.S. taxpayer expense, to non-paying, non-citizens in WEALTHY MODERN EUROPE is your priority. Got it.

    Yes, our allies should do more, but that’s not an excuse to give in to tyranny…

    Pfft. Give in????? Perhaps you should bone up on the costs of WW1, WW2 and the Cold War in treasure. Then add the blood to the tally. Give in??? How naive.

    https://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=1297

    “Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear—kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor—with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it by furnishing the exorbitant funds demanded. Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened, seem never to have been quite real.” —General Douglas MacArthur

    Ever shilling for the MIC aren’t you, AJ

    … and Vladimir smiled. Xi guffawed.

    DCSCA (8497af)

  665. @673. Pfft. “I don’t want to go [back to South Vietnam] to kill and be killed,” says Joe Doakes – not his real name – who spent five weeks fighting in the Tet Offensive.”

    FIFY

    DCSCA (8497af)

  666. The Uvalde PD were in the building down the hall. The optics are better than if they were at the donut shop, but the end result was the same-any students who were bleeding to death continued to bleed to death.

    The only two words Arrondondo needed to say were “Follow me”

    steveg (5a1caf)

  667. Still get impatient when I hear about “barricaded subject”.
    Every FD owns a cutoff saw with a a metal cutting wheel and breaching tools if the PD doesn’t. if PD did not have shotguns with breaching rounds, I don’t know what to say

    steveg (5a1caf)

  668. Joe Biden’s son should be the first person on Joe’s red flag list

    steveg (5a1caf)

  669. Hunter Biden, mental health issues, substance abuse issues, should not own a gun. If he does friends and loved ones should take it away from him.

    Time123 (fcfc1c)

  670. ‘Lots of luck on his trip to the moon’: Biden dismisses Elon Musk’s comment about having a ‘super bad feeling’ about the economy – Fortune.com

    When asked about Musk’s message Friday during a press conference, the president pointed to Tesla’s competitors that are expanding their operations and investments. “While Elon Musk is talking about that, Ford is increasing their investment overwhelmingly,” Biden said. “Ford is increasing investment and building new electric vehicles. Six thousand new employees, union employees I might add, in the Midwest.”

    Biden quipped: “So, you know, lots of luck on his trip to the moon”

    NASA has awarded SpaceX a $2.9 billion contract to build the spacecraft that will land the first woman and the first person of color on the moon as part of the agency’s Artemis program. The choice of the company’s lunar lander, Starship, was made in 2021 under the Biden administration. In March, NASA announced that SpaceX would conduct its first mission no earlier than 2025.

    Musk on Friday quipped back at Biden on Twitter, writing “Thanks Mr President!” while attaching a link to the NASA announcement of SpaceX as its partner.

    This is hardly the first time Biden and Musk have taken shots at one another. After SpaceX completed the first private spaceflight with only non-professional astronauts on board last September, one of Musk’s Twitter followers asked: “The President of the United States has refused to even acknowledge the 4 newest American astronauts who helped raise hundreds of millions of dollars for St. Jude. What’s your theory on why that is?” “He’s still sleeping,” Musk replied.

    Biden has also conspicuously avoided praising Tesla. In August 2021, the president signed an executive order outlining a target for zero-emissions vehicles to make up half of U.S. car sales by 2030 and invited General Motors, Ford and Chrysler parent Stellantis to a White House event. The manufacturers all have close ties with the United Auto Workers union. Tesla, a non-union company, wasn’t invited. During a conference, Musk questioned the lack of an invite and accused Biden of snubbing the top U.S. electric car maker. “Biden held this EV summit,” Musk said. “Didn’t mention Tesla once, and praised GM and Ford for leading the EV revolution. Does this sound maybe a little biased or something? And you know, just, it’s not the friendliest administration. Seems to be controlled by unions as far as I can tell.” Reporters asked White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki about Tesla’s absence at the event.
    “I’ll let you draw your own conclusion,” Psaki said.’

    Hey Joey- adjust the rabbit ears on you ol’ Dumont set and tune in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98qw86DsdZ0&list=PL250koi2M-LA_EypAhVXop2IaTa8F-oHs&index=1

    IDIOT!

    DCSCA (779d39)

  671. Another good jobs report:

    U.S. employers added 390,000 jobs in May, marking another blockbuster month in the labor market that points to sustained economic growth even as head winds mount.

    The unemployment rate remained unchanged at 3.6 percent, the Labor Department said Friday.
    . . .
    In all, U.S. employers have added more than 6.5 million jobs in the past year, with many of those gains concentrated in industries such as manufacturing, hospitality and transportation, which are racing to keep up with booming demand. That trend continued in May, with broad growth across almost all sectors.

    Those gains have come in spite of COVID, and in spite of Putin.

    (I should add that, were I only concerned about my own well being, as someone on a fixed income, I would prefer slower job growth and lower inflation. But I think it better for the nation, if, for example, high school dropouts can find jobs, and those who just graduated high school can move to better jobs, even if that means I have to watch my budget more carefully.

    And I do see signs that inflation is moderating, both in statistics, and in may own personal experience.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  672. Those gains have come in spite of COVID, and in spite of Putin.

    Gains??? Returning to the workforce, and your f/t gig after 2 years of lockdowns is false growth.

    Everybody knows it but Joe.

    DCSCA (779d39)

  673. Hey Ol; Dumb Joey- you know where those spacesuits for that Musky ‘ol trip to the moon you cracked wise about are made????????? Do you, you imbecile???????

    ILC Dover.

    DELAWARE. Weren’t you the senator from DELAWARE for 36 years???? You incredibly brain-damaged, steamimg pile of P.O.T.U.S.

    IDIOT.

    DCSCA (779d39)

  674. Sorry about not closing the link. I miss the previews.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  675. Putin is fixing to become a hiss and a byword.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  676. McCormick concedes to Oz. Another Trump-endorsed candidate triumphs.

    DCSCA (779d39)

  677. Wait, this is last week’s Weekend Open Thread?

    Hell in a handbasket, I tell you!

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  678. 667-
    No killer has been found. Police, fbi? Anyone looking? bill-hillary? Anyone give a schiff?
    Just another dead democrat, eh?

    mg (8cbc69)

  679. NASA has awarded SpaceX a $2.9 billion contract to build the spacecraft that will land the first woman and the first person of color on the moon as part of the agency’s Artemis program.

    ULA will provide the standard “LEM” for white men.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  680. McCormick concedes to Oz. Another Trump-endorsed candidate triumphs.

    DCSCA (779d39) — 6/3/2022 @ 3:44 pm

    Well, at least Oz didn’t follow Trump’s advice to claim victory right away. Oz also doesn’t seem to talk much about the 2020 “stolen” election. I guess that’s the most Republicans can hope for these days.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  681. That, and atherosclerosis in the witless ape.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  682. NASA has awarded SpaceX a $2.9 billion contract to build the spacecraft that will land the first woman and the first person of color on the moon as part of the agency’s Artemis program.

    Lucasfilm could do it for $2.85 billion less.

    nk (ae96ff)

  683. @692. Now ‘Witless Ape’ is Joey’s SS code name? Guess ‘Excellent Putz’ is already taken by Hunter.

    “So, you know, lots of luck on his trip to the moon.” – Squinty McStumblebum witlessly trying to zing Elon Musk, who has been contracted by Biden;’s own administration to fly a woman and person of color to the moon- 8/3/22

    DCSCA (ae1c6a)

  684. ^6/3/22

    DCSCA (ae1c6a)

  685. Do you believe the 1969 moon landing was staged, nk?

    norcal (3f02c4)

  686. Now ‘Witless Ape’ is Joey’s SS code name?

    DCSCA (ae1c6a) — 6/3/2022 @ 5:49 pm

    Not quite, DCSCA.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/01/witless-ape-rides-helicopter/

    norcal (3f02c4)

  687. #697 – That seems unfair to apes.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  688. @697. OIC; – never-trumper bible embraces devolution whilst Excellent Putz takes the train to the plane.

    DCSCA (a0ccdb)

  689. Do you believe the 1969 moon landing was staged, nk?

    Does it matter? On a Hollywood soundstage or “on location”, it all comes to the same thing. Only a show.

    nk (ae96ff)

  690. @700. It does to President Kramden; he wants to send Elon there.

    DCSCA (a0ccdb)

  691. “Does it matter? On a Hollywood soundstage or “on location”, it all comes to the same thing. Only a show.”

    It was filmed by Stanley Kubrick. Who was such a perfectionist that he insisted it be shot on location.

    Davethulhu (054e7d)

  692. Those gains have come in spite of COVID, and in spite of Putin.

    (I should add that, were I only concerned about my own well being, as someone on a fixed income, I would prefer slower job growth and lower inflation. But I think it better for the nation, if, for example, high school dropouts can find jobs, and those who just graduated high school can move to better jobs, even if that means I have to watch my budget more carefully.

    And I do see signs that inflation is moderating, both in statistics, and in may own personal experience.)

    Jim Miller (406a93) — 6/3/2022 @ 1:27 pm

    What signs are that? Does water carrying pay well?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  693. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10882981/New-video-shows-Texas-inmates-dramatic-escape-going-kill-family-five.html

    Here’s another “mass shooting” leftists will cite as a reason to ban guns without mentioning a single fact in the murder of this innocent family or where the guys or murderer came from.

    The five people murdered by escaped convict Gonzalo Lopez have been named and pictured
    Mark Collins, 66, and his grandsons Waylon, 18, Carson, 16, and twins Hudson and Bryson, 11, were all murdered by Lopez while he was on the run
    A fourth grader shot a video showing Lopez escaping from a prison bus on May 12
    Lopez, 46, can be seen running into a wooded area, where he hid for days and remained on the run for three weeks
    Lopez stole the Collins family’s truck and an AR-15 and drove for more than 200 miles before authorities caught up with him, shooting him dead

    Only the best and brightest from the Biden’s.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  694. Principles First ain’t bad.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  695. Trump and his kids will each be deposed for 7 hours in the Trump Organization corruption case.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  696. It would be nice to see Trump and his kids flip on each other.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  697. Peter navarro trump running dog. I was handcuffed and shackled like a common black criminal! I am white! After his arrest.

    asset (bfbdbc)

  698. A police officer pulls a woman over for speeding. Goes up to her car window and says “Do you know why I am standing here?” Woman says Because their is an active shooter down at the elementary school?

    asset (bfbdbc)

  699. I hope that was worth all the fix-it tickets she got.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  700. Navarro would never have been on Trump’s National Economic Council had Jared Kushner not found him using an Amazon search, looking for any economist who would faithfully parrot Trump’s populism and wrongness on tariffs, and Kushner got his guy. Navarro being a complete a$$hole was gravy.

    Kushner was drawn into the campaign, and the administration, by degrees—“drafted into this crazy journey,” he has been heard to say. More than anything it’s a reflection of how few people there were to do anything in the campaign’s early days. At one point during the campaign, when Trump wanted to speak more substantively about China, he gave Kushner a summary of his views and then asked him to do some research. Kushner simply went on Amazon, where he was struck by the title of one book, Death by China, co-authored by Peter Navarro. He cold-called Navarro, a well-known trade-deficit hawk, who agreed to join the team as an economic adviser. (When he joined, Navarro was in fact the campaign’s only economic adviser.) Kushner operated in much the same way when it came to crafting Trump’s tax plan—calling up someone for help out of the blue. Given the initial absence of pros who could do the job properly, he also tried his hand at writing speeches. Responding to criticism from the boss (“Jared, this is terrible!”), Kushner said, according to a person familiar with the episode, “I’m not a f–king speechwriter. I am a real-estate guy.”

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  701. Another Trump-endorsed candidate triumphs.

    this is all part of nevertrump’s plan

    JF (cf3c16)

  702. @708 lose an election, go to prison

    the third world has so many great traditions

    JF (cf3c16)

  703. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/06/03/kevin-mccarthy-washington-media-taboo-intelligence-00036894
    These writers are slow. I could have said that about this hack years ago.

    mg (8cbc69)

  704. How can talk of impeachment not be number 1 on republican leaders agenda?
    This fool and the 81 million need to be jailed.

    mg (8cbc69)

  705. And, of course, you remember when the FBI arrested Holder and put him in leg irons on the same charge that is being brought against Navarro. No, wait…

    81 million in bed with the fed.

    mg (8cbc69)

  706. @716 jail 81 million? That reminds me of col. custer yelling take no prisoners as he charges the indian village. Biden is doing his job for the corporate establishment of both parties keeping AOC and the left from taking control of the democrat party. Trump won because he asked the working class how is free trade working out for you? Hillary and the democrat and republican parties kept believing the economy was doing great for the elites and the professional class. The corporate establishment loves free trade and immigration. The working class go kill your self on meth and stop getting in our way voting rinos out. Now that trump is out, back to raising interest rates to kill job growth and raise the unemployment rate for those working class trumpsters. The elites are back in power so they can spend their time preventing AOC and the left from taking over the democrat party after the establishment democrats get wiped out in the mid terms.

    asset (bfbdbc)

  707. Well, I’ll be goshdurned! Goldanged too! Navarro did in fact say that he was arrested and put in handcuffs and leg irons. That’s strange.

    nk (d8da8b)

  708. 72-year old former Presidential adviser charged with contempt. Were they afraid that he was going to grab their donuts and run away?

    nk (1d9030)

  709. @717, I look forward to AOC venturing out of her safe liberal district and promoting Medicare for All and the Green New Deal at the state or national levels. Mix in getting rid of ICE, free college, free child care, $15 minimum wage, and of course, higher pay for congressmen…..because it’s tough to get by on $174k a year. I guess we’ll see how liberal the country is once she goes national. Of course she’s made a bunch of goofy comments which people will remind her of….and those pesky details of paying for socialism…..Sure bring her on.

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  710. Given that he had a list of political targets, the murder of a former judge in WI could be seen as an act of domestic terrorism.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  711. the price of gas has doubled since inauguration

    raise that mission accomplished banner

    can we triple it?

    yes

    we

    can!

    JF (cf3c16)

  712. biden’s new spokeshole seems to be a complete disaster

    she’s just not good at lying like the last one

    like everything else these days, it’s a tight labor market

    JF (cf3c16)

  713. Dr. Snyder addresses my reaction to those who claim Putin is “cornered” or “boxed in”.

    Russians are not cornered. The Russian army is not cornered. It is an invading force. When defeated, units just retreat across the border to Russia.
    […]
    It is hard for people in other societies to grasp that Putin is a dictator who controls his country’s media. He rules by changing the subject. 4/17

    Putin changes the subject all the time. The last time Russia invaded Ukraine, its media changed the subject to Syria from one day to the next, and Russians went along.

    When Russia invaded Ukraine this February, the media quickly adjusted from saying that invasion was impossible to saying it was inevitable. Russians went along.

    If defeated in reality, Putin will just declare victory on television, and Russians will believe him, or pretend to. He does not need our help for that.

    This is why it’s so silly for leaders like Macron to be concerned about Putin feeling “humiliated”. How humiliating is it for Zelenskyy, to be treated not as a peer but as a vassal or puppet?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  714. For all the talk about Putin making advances in Donbas, he’s taken scarcely any additional ground compared to a month ago, and the MLRS systems are getting there. Maybe DCSCA can sell comment bonds to amplify his pro-Putin schtick.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  715. There are two notable birthdays today, with the common tie being authoritarian oppression. Happy 46th to Mr. Navalny and an unhappy 33rd to the Tianenmen massacre.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  716. @726. Maybe DCSCA can sell comment bonds to amplify his pro-Putin schtick.

    Pfft. Maybe Paulie can buy his, but only with his rubles; they’re doin’ Yankee Doodle Dandy these days:

    Ruble Hits 5-Year High as Gas Buyers Bend to Putin’s Will

    -Euro-ruble volumes surging as exporters convert earnings; Putin demanded that buyers of gas switch to ruble payments.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-20/ruble-surges-to-7-year-high-as-gazprom-clients-heed-putin-on-gas

    Ol’Joey peddling Ukrainian Freedom Fighter War Bonds instead of a beach bicycle Bugs ol’Paulie, don’t it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_r1G8HTKR0

    DCSCA (bcf07f)

  717. an unhappy 33rd to the Tianenmen massacre.

    Unhappy? Was literally in a meeting at NBC at 30 Rock the day that news broke. Great memories!

    DCSCA (bcf07f)

  718. Doctor, 2 nurses stabbed at Encino Hospital Medical Center near Los Angeles; suspect arrested

    LOS ANGELES — A man stabbed a doctor and two nurses inside a Southern California hospital Friday before barricading himself inside the facility, authorities said. He remained inside a room for hours before police arrested him. -USAToday.com

    Wot? No gun? Progress in progressive LA, eh Joey!?

    DCSCA (bcf07f)

  719. 72-year old former Presidential adviser charged with contempt

    “I’ve got your contempt right here!”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  720. Unhappy? Was literally in a meeting at NBC at 30 Rock the day that news broke. Great memories!

    I wish I was surprised.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  721. How can talk of impeachment not be number 1 on republican leaders agenda?

    How indeed? After all, he stole the election! I guess the GOP doesn’t realize what a fantastic winning campaign theme this would make. But then all Republcians are RINOs!

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  722. An interesting piece on guns and culture from an unconventional source — a movie critic. He keeps it in his domain by questioning what role Hollywood should/could take to change the culture of gun violence.

    He rightly observes that 50 years ago teens weren’t fed non-stop imagery of gun violence and we didn’t have teens shooting up churches, schools, and grocery stores. He’s not arguing direct causation but a relevant correlation. Critics might say that the same movies, cable, and video games are available in other countries and we don’t see the same thing, that the phenomenon is uniquely American. But is there a cultural component as to why the Texas shooter chose an AR-15….and bragged on social media that something big was about to happen?

    The author goes on to describe how Hollywood contributed to changing attitudes about smoking and gay marriage, and wonders if a pause on depicting gun violence as solving problems might remove some of the oxygen animating our young loners. The question is whether the cat is out of the bag….and we have a rising group of disaffected psychopaths who will be studying and fetishizing the monstrous acts of our current crop of psychopaths. They see the attention on the news, in social media, and the reaction from our political leaders and they see a release.

    Finding the ticking time bombs through more mental health outreach in schools might be a component, but for that age group, will we be able to intercede for every kid that is bullied or rejected by his peers? Is there a formula for making better parents and providing more hope? Anyways, I thought it might an interesting read for those thinking about the issue….

    https://theankler.com/p/hollywood-has-a-gun-problem-teds?s=r

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  723. DCCCP: “So your whining about the United States government helping Americans as the PRIOTITY for the American citizens while you prefer to literally give freebees, [blah, blah, blah]”

    Well, when well-known fighters for the little people….Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and AOC and the squad….can vote for the Ukraine military support, it pulls all of the oxygen out of your argument about prioroties. Unless of course you believe that they are also captives of the diabolical (cue scary music) MIC.

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  724. @734. ‘blah, blah, blah’ – Yep, there’s a cogent retort; AJ’s on ‘Cruz Control”. Trump has some advice for you:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zbRxWEF2Rw

    DCSCA (b46846)

  725. @733. He keeps it in his domain by questioning what role Hollywood should/could take to change the culture of gun violence.

    Interesting? Pfft. Only to the uninformed. That’s one column phoned in. Guess he missed radio’s hugely popular ‘Gangbusters’ back in the day and boxoffice blasts like Beatty’s ‘Bonnie & Clyde’… Holden’s machine gun party in ‘The Wild Bunch’ all the Godfather flicks, every damn Dirty Harry Eastwood Magnum shoot up and John Wayne duking it out w/guns on the range, at ‘The Alamo’, on the ‘Sands of Iwo Jima’ and in the Vietnam rice paddies for ‘The Green Berets’… [BTW, special shout out to that flying killing machine that literally was applauded in the movie theater when we saw the flick in ’68: Puff The Magic Dragon.’ Sick].. and his last film, ‘The Shootist.’ Every damn war film ever produced, from Kubrick’s ‘Full Metal Jacket’ to Stone’s ‘Platoon’; Gibson’s Red Coat slaughterfest, ‘The Patriot’ and ‘We Were Soldiers.’ ; Sinatra’s ‘Manchurian Candidate’ and ‘Suddenly’; De Palma’s little friend ‘Scarface’; all of Scorsees ‘Goodfellas…’ Eddie G’s Little Caesar Cagney’s ‘Roaring 20’s’ and his chicken munching, trunk ventilation, ‘top of the world’ classic, ‘White Heat’… to name just a very few popular films on the American gun lover lust list. Hollywood produces a product for profit to satisfy a market. No interest; no sales; no profit. That’s why you ain’t drivin’ the 2022 Edsel. Now, let’s turn to television… 😉

    DCSCA (b46846)

  726. @731. I wish I was surprised.

    We were. Middle of a thunderstorm, meeting broke up; NBC newsies rushed out to report breaking news. It was quite a memorable afternoon.

    DCSCA (b46846)

  727. Dana – I hope you are OK.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  728. Bidens briefly moved to secure location after plane entered restricted airspace

    Rehoboth Beach, Delaware – President Joe Biden and first lady Jill Biden were transported to a safe location for about 30 minutes on Saturday due to a plane entering the secure airspace over the family’s Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, house… Officials at a local fire station said the Secret Service notified them around 12:48 p.m. that they would be arriving with the Bidens. Rehoboth Beach resident Susan Lillard told CBS News she saw a small white plane flying near Cape Henlopen State Park, which is near the president’s beach home. Lillard then said she saw two planes scramble into the air a few minutes later. CBS News also saw these two jets flying low over the downtown area of the beach town. Hundreds of onlookers gathered around the fire station about five blocks from a nearby beach because Secret Service officers were stopping all pedestrians and traffic.’ -CBSNews.com

    Inflation is soaring around you. Gas prices are soaring around you. Gun violence is soaring around you.
    Now airplanes are soaring around you. Poor Joey; his beach time, med sessions and blood transfusions were interrupted. So w/t country burning down around all of us— the hoser is whisked to the perfect spot for a flaming idiot: a fire house. Next time, try ‘behind the gymnasium’ at the Rehoboth Beach High School, fellas.

    It’s all Putin’s fault, anyway, eh, Hoser Joey.

    DCSCA (0ee8fe)

  729. @720 AOC got california for bernie in the 2020 primary which he lost in 2016 when AOC didn’t campaign for him. She almost got him texas too! Corporate establishment and DNC told other moderates to clear the field for biden to stop Bernie Sanders. She raised $5 million for texas relief in 3 days in 2021. Her base is young millenials Berniecrats and latinx. Blacks don’t like gay buttigeig and are luke warm at best to kamala harris. AOC is the future of the democrat party and everyone in the party knows it wither they like it or not.

    asset (09f8aa)

  730. What is the difference between dorthy’s three friends in the wizard of oz and police at uvalde? Dorthy’s three friends got their brains, courage and hearts.

    asset (09f8aa)

  731. Incumbents Hold Wide Lead in Upcoming (CA) Statewide Primary
    ……..

    Governor (Gavin) Newsom enjoys a commanding lead in the gubernatorial primary, with support from 50% of likely voters. The overwhelming majority of Democrats (83%) plan to vote for the incumbent governor, along with 46% of No Party Preference/Other Party voters, and just 4% of Republicans. In the race for second place, Republican Brian Dahle has the support of 10% of all likely voters, but is running ahead among Republicans, with 26% of likely voters; Dahle has the support of 8% of No Party Preference (NPP) voters. NPP candidate Michael Shellenberger has the support of 5% of all likely voters; he currently has the support of 10% of Republicans and 6% of NPP voters, but just 1% of Democrats. None of the other 23 candidates on the ballot garner more than 3% of voters’ support. The race for second place will likely come down to the 16% of voters who remain undecided.

    Newsom enjoys a clear lead across regions of the state, though his margin is lowest in the Central Valley (36%-23% over Dahle), Inland Empire (35%-10% over Dahle), and San Joaquin Valley (33%-22%). Newsom has wide support across racial groups, with 47% of white voters, 54% of Latinos, 70% of Black voters, and 60% of Asian American voters supporting the governor.
    ……..
    Incumbent Senator Alex Padilla has a substantial lead in both the special election to fill the remainder of Vice President Kamala Harris’s term and for the regular election to serve a full six-year term starting in January 2023. In the latter race, Padilla has the support of 42% of likely voters, with Republicans Mark Meuser (11%) and Chuck Smith (6%) trailing badly. Padilla has the support of 70% of Democrats, 35% of NPP voters, and 5% of Republicans. Meuser leads among Republicans, with 29% of the vote to Smith’s 15%, while the two draw nearly equally from NPP voters (6% for Meuser, compared to 5% for Smith). None of the 20 other candidates in the race have the support of more than 3% of likely voters. As in the statewide races, the battle for second place in the top-two primary will depend heavily on how the 22% of undecided voters break in the final days before the election.

    Padilla leads in each region of the state, though his support is highest in the Bay Area (51%), LA County (47%) and Central Coast (55%), and lowest in the Inland Empire (31%), Central Valley (33%), San Joaquin Valley (25%), and North Coast (33%). Padilla’s support is similar across racial groups, with 42% of white voters, 41% of Latinos, 45% of Black voters, and 46% of Asian Americans expressing support for the incumbent senator.
    ……….

    Hard to believe that Newsom and Padilla have polling leads in the Central Valley.

    Rip Murdock (f4023e)

  732. @743 The more interesting races will be down ballot where the AOC/Berniecrats fight it out with the clintonistas and if any are left biden supporters for control of the democrat party.

    asset (09f8aa)

  733. Michael Flynn’s Identity Was Not Improperly Revealed By Obama Officials, A Secret DOJ Report Has Found
    …….
    The document details the results of a monthslong investigation into the so-called unmasking of Flynn, who briefly served as national security adviser to then-president Donald Trump before he resigned in February 2017 in the wake of the revelation that he had lied about phone conversations he held with Russia’s ambassador to the US.
    …….
    ……. In May 2020, Trump’s attorney general, William Barr, ordered an investigation into the practice of unmasking. That review, conducted by John Bash — at the time the US attorney for the Western District of Texas — was finished the following September without finding any evidence of wrongdoing.

    Although Bash’s conclusions, including his decision not to prosecute anyone, were first reported in late 2020, the report itself has not previously been seen by the public. The full 52-page document, which had been classified top secret, was obtained by BuzzFeed News in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit and is being shared here for the first time in its entirety.

    ……… Bash employed a team of two prosecutors, three FBI agents, and one FBI analyst to review unmasking requests made to the National Security Agency, Central Intelligence Agency, and the FBI between March 1, 2016, and Jan. 31, 2017, and to conduct interviews with 20 government employees involved in intelligence briefings. He examined whether anyone in the Obama administration had improper motives when seeking to reveal the true identities of US citizens — including Flynn — whose names were not disclosed in classified intelligence reports.
    ………
    “My review has uncovered no evidence that senior Executive Branch officials sought the disclosure of” the identities of US individuals “in disseminated intelligence reports for political purposes or other inappropriate reasons during the 2016 presidential-election period or the ensuing presidential-transition period,” Bash’s report says.
    ………
    ……… Bash’s review of unmasked intelligence reports about the calls found that the FBI did not in fact disseminate any that contained Flynn’s information, and that a single unmasked report that did contain Flynn’s information did not describe the calls between him and Kislyak. “For that reason, the public disclosure of the communications could not have resulted from an unmasking request,” Bash’s report concludes.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (f4023e)

  734. Democrats voting in GOP primaries to block Trump
    …….. In both the gubernatorial race and the one for Secretary of State, the Trump-backed candidates lost by wide enough margins to avoid a runoff vote later this year. So does that indicate a waning level of influence among Republicans for the previous president in a state he very narrowly lost? (Assuming you believe he did…) Perhaps there is some of that on display. But as the Associated Press reports this week, it wasn’t just Republicans sticking a shiv in Trump’s back on primary day. Democrats were doing it too, and probably more of them than you might imagine………
    ……..
    …….. According to the data collected by the AP, ……the names of more than 37,000 people who voted in Georgia’s Democratic primary two years ago showed up as voters in the Republican primary for Raffensperger’s race. The Secretary of State only beat the 50% threshold by 27,000 votes. And if that had gone to a runoff with no other candidates sucking the oxygen out of the room, who knows how it would have come out? Brian Kemp would have beaten the 50% margin even without the Democrats who backed him, but only barely.

    Are we going to pretend that any of those Democrats just had a change of heart and decided to go vote for the non-MAGA Republican in that race and that they might vote for them again in November? ……. Those people were there for only one reason that day. They wanted to deliver a defeat to Donald Trump.

    …….. (T)he Bad Orange Man can still motivate (Democrats) enough to lower their own primary turnout and vote for a never-Trump Republican. Their own party has given them scant motivation to show up in November and vote for their own party members and agenda. But Donald Trump still has the power to get them out of their seats and go vote against anyone even vaguely connected to him.

    This is also yet another argument against open primary laws that allow “crossover voters.” Fourteen states still conduct “closed” primaries that prevent meddling like this. But in 21 states, at least one party holds “open” primaries. Keep in mind that these primary races are not elections. The winners do not ascend to any office.……..

    Jazz Shaw makes an important point at the end-primaries just select a nominee. No matter how successful Trump has been in picking primary winners, if they can’t win in the general election, what’s the point?

    Rip Murdock (f4023e)

  735. AOC is the future of the democrat party and everyone in the party knows it whether they like it or not.

    They said the same thing about Huey Long once.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  736. Summer Heat Could Wreak Havoc On Texas’ Grid
    Texans need to be prepared for the grid to fail. Again. A new bombshell report from the North American Electric Reliability Corporation (NERC) shows that while Texas has made some progress in increasing surplus energy flow to the grid for times of heightened demand, power is going to be extremely tight this summer, and Texans should prepare to expect rolling blackouts during the hottest months of the year.

    The recently released 2022 Summer Reliability Assessment found that Texas, along with parts of California and the Southwest, are in an “elevated risk category of energy emergencies.” The extra pressure on the grid comes from a combination of abnormally high temperatures and doubt conditions, poor upkeep and maintenance of generators across Texas, persistent supply chain issues, and increasing demand. NERC also sighted cyber threats, wildfires, and a shortage of coal generation inputs as major issues that they will be monitoring as the days grow hotter and sufficient energy supply to the grid becomes more vulnerable.
    ………
    ……… (A)t the same time that the Electric Reliability Council of Texas is boasting that it’s ready for summer, they had to call for energy conservation over the weekend as several generators failed.

    Texas needs to invest in generators in a big hurry. Typically spring provides a respite from extreme temperatures and an opportunity to work on the grid and generational capacity, but early heat waves have already put a near-maximum strain on the grid in 2022. ……
    …….

    Rip Murdock (f4023e)

  737. Rip Murdock (f4023e) — 6/4/2022 @ 3:42 pm

    still hooked on left wing agitprop, eh Rip?

    a senior obama administration official committed a felony by leaking classified details regarding Flynn’s conversations

    the investigation of masking data was an attempt to find the felon

    that no masking impropriety was found simply means that a senior obama administration official committed a felony by leaking classified details regarding flynn’s conversations and we still don’t know who it is

    this is obviously a story you’re not following

    JF (cf3c16)

  738. folks here breathlessly crowed about mark meadows’ criminal referral to the DOJ

    DOJ declines to charge Meadows, Scavino with contempt of Congress for defying Jan. 6 committee

    too bad, so sad

    when you’ve lost merrick garland….

    JF (cf3c16)

  739. Puerto Rican women do have an alluring vivacity, but Cuban women win hands down (and you can take that any way you want) on which have the best butts.

    nk (143550)

  740. #750 I laughed out loud, ruefully, at the CNN headline for the same story: “DOJ will not indict two former Trump officials”.

    Which will remind anyone sentient of how many former Trump officials have been indicted, and will be, and how many were rescued by Trump pardons.

    (Reminder: Following Trump is likely to lead to you losing your wealth, your health, or even, for some, your freedom.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  741. @752. (Reminder: Biden is president; following Joe has definitely led you to losing your wealth, your health, and even, for some, your freedom.)

    FIFY.

    DCSCA (2afe7f)

  742. Puerto Rican women do have an alluring vivacity, but Cuban women win hands down (and you can take that any way you want) on which have the best butts.

    nk (143550) — 6/4/2022 @ 4:35 pm

    Somebody needs to introduce nk to a Brazilian woman.

    norcal (e37642)

  743. I’d love to personally judge the comparison, of course, but Galicia is right next to Portugal, you know, so I would not be at all surprised.

    nk (143550)

  744. the best azz
    is on
    my irish lass

    mg (8cbc69)

  745. PR’s and Cubans may win on overall curves, but Brazilians have the butts going away

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  746. Jim Miller (406a93) — 6/4/2022 @ 4:46 pm

    now i’m hungry for a ham sandwich

    JF (cf3c16)

  747. Hierarchy of needs.

    nk (a2b561)

  748. Colombianas for both curve and vivacity, they may not have a lot of 10s, but never lower than a 7. And for Brazilians unique gifts, thank the now-Angolans (watch Bolsanaro’s head explode).

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  749. I think I sent nk a link or picture of the greek/american woman I know who throws the discus on the international level.
    Think lots of power generated from her… ummm, core… super cool, smart young lady too. That whole greek thing is obviously a big fat negative…

    steveg (9b8b5e)

  750. @747 The tyrants power ends with their death ;but the martyrs begins with theirs. As big as AOC is in life she would be even bigger in death. Look at John Brown and Malcolm X Their would now be many women ready to step in and take her place and thirsting for revenge.

    asset (85b6b0)

  751. Hershall walkers pac has been caught handing out gas cards trying to buy black votes for him.

    asset (85b6b0)

  752. The Walker campaign stole that idea from Chicago’s own Willie Wilson – at least he’s not tying up traffic on all the Petri Boulevards (Wilson insists people line up at the station at 6am). But when you elect a dementia riddled POTUS, one shouldn’t complain about a CTE poster child.

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  753. @763. Passing gas? Running backs lateral. 😉

    DCSCA (1bcf11)

  754. What happened to the hosts? Are they all on the yacht?

    norcal (3f02c4)

  755. @766. I hope that’s where they are. Frankly I’m concerned.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  756. 81 million joes own this demented pos

    mg (8cbc69)

  757. And Juan Deere is moving some operations to Mexico.
    81 million brought this on.

    mg (8cbc69)

  758. It not the fault of the 81 million, but of the 14 million who made Trump the 2016 nominee.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  759. B.S. you 81 million are at fault 100%

    mg (8cbc69)

  760. 81 million need a mental hospital – STAT.

    mg (8cbc69)

  761. Before fenny, mg would have lauded #769 under the premise “at least it’s not China”

    urbanleftbehind (2b999d)

  762. I too hope all is well with our hosts…..maybe they’re tired of hearing about the 81 million

    AJ_Liberty (411e90)

  763. Maybe they’re working hard on recalls and/or other Cali campaigns.

    urbanleftbehind (438819)

  764. I can’t say how it is anywhere else, but in my last two trips to Walmart, the store was practically empty, had kind of a dying Kmarty sorta feel.
    Costco and Winco were bustling by comparison. Is this a trend?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  765. maybe costco and winco have the last of the baby formula

    in soviet times the stores that ran out of bread had the shortest queues

    JF (e9393c)

  766. The formula shortage might be tamping the first of the month crowd. Walmart may also be seen as a softer (and depending on the particular grievances of a prospective shooter) and more attractive target.

    What s a “WinCo”?

    urbanleftbehind (438819)

  767. monster commits murder fifteen years ago

    bleeding hearts keep him alive so he can murder a family of five

    JF (e9393c)

  768. Paul,

    Interesting observation…. On the Walmart

    EPWJ (ded958)

  769. Kevin,

    Unfortunately during the 2016 primaries, we laughed at Rick Perry and Jeb Bush, two of the best conservative politicians ever, we put a failed fired IT exec up there because she had the gender card, a lightly crazy neuro surgeon, and two junior senators, Cruz and Mario. Trump was the only winning candidate when Bush and Perry dropped out.

    Hillary was a formidable candidate and if she wasnt ill and having mini stroke might have beaten trump. Perry or Bush would have wiped the floor with her.

    We chose a guy who surprised me in many ways. Improved the economy, saved nato – saved the world by overriding the CDC, FDA and Fauci and Birch by bullying through vaccines instead of locking us up for 6 months as prisoners of the new Reich.

    So you might want to think before you keep saying stupid things over and over again. Saily Kos is a good blog for you

    EPWJ (ded958)

  770. What s a “WinCo”?

    Winco is an employee-owned chain in the western US, with big stores and the lowest prices anywhere, lower than Walmart. Their business plan is stellar.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  771. It not the fault of the 81 million, but of the 14 million who made Trump the 2016 nominee.

    Blaming others…. there’s a spot in the Biden Administration for you, K. 😉

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  772. 3 dead, 14 shot in mass shooting in Chattanooga, Tennessee

    At least three people are dead and 14 shot following a shooting outside a nightclub in Chattanooga, Tennessee overnight, which is the second mass shooting in the city in the last week. – ABCNews.com

    How’s the beach, Joey?

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  773. 81 million joes own this demented pos

    Particularly the peevish ideological conservatives who abandoned their own party nominee and backed this brain-damaged, wind-bagged boob out of spite for losing control of the party they ran into the ground. 14 weenies versus and a Trump steak- remember? Primary voters looked at the menu and went with the tough beef over the pork entrails.

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  774. Remember when so many were clinging to Ted Cruz as the GOP future???

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zbRxWEF2Rw

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  775. we put a failed fired IT exec up there because she had the gender card

    Uh, no, that was your hobby horse as I recall, but no that was untrue. She saved HP from the founder’s children who wanted to let it run into the ground paying them dividends.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  776. B.S. you 81 million are at fault 100%

    Asshats never take the blame for their asshattery.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  777. I can’t say how it is anywhere else, but in my last two trips to Walmart, the store was practically empty

    Walmart is doing just fine out here. Try it Saturday afternoon.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  778. Blaming others…. there’s a spot in the Biden Administration for you, K.

    There’s a spot in the Kremlin Wall for you, by and by.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  779. Remember when so many were clinging to Ted Cruz as the GOP future???

    The GOP had (and has) 1000s of better candidates than Donald Trump. Half the people on this comment section would do a better job.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  780. @783:

    The ideological dream of every moderate Republican — the scrappy employee-owned co-op facing off against the big bad corporations. Kind of like the Bailey Building and Loan of retail.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  781. @793. Except it didn’t: certainly not populists.

    You call them ‘candidates’ the majority of the party labeled them losers.

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  782. @792. Not necessary, Kevin: already have a piece of it in my den.

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  783. Asshats never take the blame for their asshattery.

    Reaganomics.
    Reaganoptics.
    Reaganaurics.

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  784. The GOP had (and has) 1000s of better candidates than Donald Trump. Half the people on this comment section would do a better job.

    But no one did, not Reagan, nor Ike, maybe Teddy did a slightly better job but its been a century since an affective president did as much as the bad man from NY.

    But you’re spamming this blog to death, people are turned off. You and the Dnutty one

    EPWJ (ded958)

  785. Eighty years ago this weekend (June 4-6, 1942), the United States Navy inflicted upon the Imperial Japanese Navy “the most stunning and decisive blow in the history of naval warfare” and “one of the most consequential naval engagements in world history……..as both tactically decisive and strategically influential” during the Battle of Midway.

    Rip Murdock (f4023e)

  786. I can’t say how it is anywhere else, but in my last two trips to Walmart, the store was practically empty, had kind of a dying Kmarty sorta feel. Costco and Winco were bustling by comparison. Is this a trend?

    Only if you buy cooking oil- and gasoline by the gallon. Costco fuel prices are usually lower and the pump lines long. Empty shelves at the Walmart here. Supply train issues abound all over– and prices spiking due to scarcities– and diesel fuel costs soaring for truckers. Milk is at $4/ half gallon now. 72/28 hamburger at $6/lb; London Broil at nearly $11/lb…. and a basic box of corn flakes are soaring as well… and Joey: “We’re out of corn flakes. F.U.”

    Gas now at station closest to home: Regular: $6.76/gal.; Midgrade $6.96 gal.; Premium: $7.06 gal.; Diesel: $7.16/gal.

    Attaboy, Joey: enjoy the Delaware beach; pound sand.

    “It took me three hours to figure out that ‘F.U.’ was Felix Unger!” – Oscar Madison [Walter Matthau] ‘The Odd Couple’ 1968

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  787. people are turned off.

    Bidenomics.
    Bidenoptics.
    Bidenaurics.

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  788. @799. You mean back in the day when military equipment was procured in a cost effective fashion to be affordably lost in combat? Got it.

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  789. Dem Sen. Chris Murphy insists Biden not get involved with bipartisan gun negotiations
    ……..
    Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut, insisted that lawmakers work out the deal on their own when asked during an appearance on CNN’s “State of the Union” if it would be helpful if Biden got involved.

    “I think the Senate needs to do this ourselves,” Murphy said. “I’ve talked to the White House every single day since these negotiations began, but right now the Senate needs to handle these negotiations.”
    ……..
    Murphy described the bipartisan negotiations as the most serious he’s ever been a part of, saying, “There are more republicans at the table talking about changing our gun laws and investing in mental health than at any time since Sandy Hook,” ……
    ………
    “We’re not going to put a piece of legislation on the table that will ban assault weapons or pass comprehensive background checks,” Murphy said. “Right now, people in this country want us to make progress, they just don’t want the status quo to continue for another 30 years.”
    ………

    Stay at the beach, Joe!

    Rip Murdock (f4023e)

  790. Beyond devastating’: 6 dead, 25 wounded in Philadelphia, Chattanooga club shootings

    ‘PHILADELPHIA – Police hunted for multiple gunmen Sunday after a shooting rampage on a crowded downtown street killed three people, wounded 11 and ignited chaos as revelers fled the carnage. Hours later, a shooting at a Tennessee nightclub left three dead and 14 wounded in Chattanooga as gun violence continued its unrelenting sweep across the nation. Three people were hit by vehicles in a mad scramble when the shooting started shortly before 3 a.m., Chattanooga Police Chief Celeste Murphy said.’ – USAToday.com

    Why wait until next Friday for another pre-beach romp gun speech, Sandcastle Joey? Give us another prime timer on Tuesday.

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  791. @803. Dem Sen. Chris Murphy insists Biden not get involved with bipartisan gun negotiations
    ……..
    Murphy, a Democrat from Connecticut, insisted that lawmakers work out the deal on their own when asked during an appearance on CNN’s “State of the Union” if it would be helpful if Biden got involved.

    To be fair, Joey’s drive to ban the Gatling Gun might fall on deaf ears w/2022 legislators.

    DCSCA (3eca0c)

  792. The Colorado and Ohio Model Programs That Train Teachers to Defeat Active Shooters

    For many years there has been debate about allowing teachers to be armed to protect students. This post describes an established training program for teachers who choose to do so in compliance with school rules. The program is FASTER—short for Faculty/Administrator Safety Training & Emergency Response. Introduced in Ohio, FASTER could be adopted by every state and school, at no cost to taxpayers, and at considerable saving of lives.
    ……..
    In the last decade, FASTER has trained thousands of teachers and other school staff in emergency medicine and emergency armed defense.
    ……..
    FASTER graduates learn the medical and defensive skills relevant to stopping a school shooter from taking lives. FASTER instructors are law enforcement trainers. They teach FASTER classes two of the skills they teach law enforcement officers: treating gunshot wounds and defeating active shooters.

    Part of FASTER training is a very specific subset of emergency medicine: how to keep a gunshot wound victim alive while waiting for an ambulance to arrive.

    The other major component of FASTER is close-quarters combat against active shooters. FASTER teaches the same skills and techniques that law enforcement officers are taught.
    …….
    According to a recent poll of likely general election voters by The Trafalgar Group, 57.5% believe that preventing trained teachers from carrying firearms in schools makes schools more dangerous; 30.8% disagreed. Democrats felt the same way as the general public, although by a smaller margin: 48.2% to 41.3%. People aged 18-24 were the most supportive of armed teachers, with 62% for and 21% against.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (f4023e)

  793. DCSCA-

    You do know that gun control is not a populist position, but is elitist, right?

    Rip Murdock (f4023e)

  794. Voters Say They Want Gun Control. Their Votes Say Something Different.
    …….
    When voters in four Democratic-leaning states got the opportunity to enact expanded gun background checks into law, the overwhelming support suggested by national surveys was nowhere to be found. Instead, the initiative and referendum results in Maine, California, Washington and Nevada were nearly identical to those of the 2016 presidential election, all the way down to the result of individual counties.

    The usual theories for America’s conservative gun politics do not explain the poor showings. The supporters of the initiatives outspent the all-powerful gun lobby. All manner of voters, not just single-issue voters or politicians, got an equal say. The Senate was not to blame; indeed, the results suggested that a national referendum on background checks would have lost. And while the question on every ballot was different and each campaign fought differently as well, the final results were largely indistinguishable from one another.
    ……..
    The possibility that one of the most popular policies in polling could run behind Mrs. Clinton at the ballot box raises important questions about the utility of issue polling, which asks voters whether they support or oppose certain policies. While these questions probably tell us something about public opinion, it may tell us quite a bit less about the political landscape than many assume.
    ……..
    …….. The apparent progressive political majority in the polls might just be illusory. It simply may not exist for practical purposes. And the tendency for referendum results of all ideological colors to underperform the polls may betray an overlooked dimension of public opinion: a tendency to err toward the status quo.
    ……..
    “When we see that initiatives consistently underperform lopsided issue polling, then that suggests that there is a common pattern at work,” said John Sides, a professor at Vanderbilt who has researched public opinion polling in ballot initiatives. “When seemingly popular proposals are subjected to counterarguments in a competitive campaign and when voters have the responsibility of changing policy (as opposed to just answering survey questions), then the results differ.”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (f4023e)

  795. From energy independence to 7 dollar gasoline, shortages, rationing and rolling blackouts in 17 short months. Way to go Brandon !!!!

    Biden voters must be especially proud. Take a bow.

    NJRob (5ac4ba)

  796. Yeah, Trump did so well that he couldn’t even beat Senator-foot-in-mouth, campaigning from his basement, well past his expiration date, wrong on every major foreign policy question of his career, Joe Biden. And in addition to losing the White House, his magnificent performance lost the House, the Senate, and six GOP governorships.

    Sure, team Trump did well in picking Justices, signing Ryan’s tax cut plan, slowing the regulatory burden, and clamping down on immigration, but his messaging to the public and his otherwise administration of government was just what one would expect from a reality tv personality who seemed to be winging it for four years. It’s eye-popping the number of good cabinet members and advisors who cannot support him and warn of his erratic decision making. At what point must it be more than just “mean tweets”?

    His January 6th conduct, or lack there of, and the exaggerated stop-the-steal mendacity should have signaled the end, but the GOP remains high on rationalization…..talking tough behind closed doors and then going limp out in public. I guess we’re not supposed to be proud of our President and just hope that now that he’s alienated the A-list advisors and burned the B-listers, that the C-list suck-ups will know when to say “hell no!” Conservatism used to be about not taking chances and trusting in norms of behavior that have been shown to be successful. It now seems to be focused on personality and entertainment….as if pulling us out of NATO or N. Korea will be a great yuck-yuck. The man is not just a bad man, he’s dangerous. His character is a mess and he seems to only be drawing in similarly vacuous politicians like MTG and Boebert. Carlson and Hannity are entertainers….the GOP should NOT be taking their direction from them…..

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  797. #897.

    DCSCA is a person, not a badly programmed Putin bot. Like most of us, his opinions don’t always line up on one side or the other. That’s not something I’d cast shade on.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  798. #787 – I can’t imagine why Christopher Tremoglie, the author of that first-linked piece, omitted Trump’s success as a COVID super spreader. (When I read the piece, I kept getting the feeling that it was a joke, that Tremoglie would, eventually, admit that he was kidding us.)

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  799. Another great comment @811, AJ.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  800. maybe macron is informed by history

    he comes from the country that gave us clemenceau

    JF (e1e9c0)

  801. @807. Except it’s not. You know the overwhelming majority of Americans want some kind of background checks to filter out the nutbags- right? Especially law-abiding gun owners, right? Which is hardly elitist at all– except to the ‘elite’ group of gun nutbags opposing it.

    __________

    @811. Yeah, Trump did so well that he couldn’t even beat Senator-foot-in-mouth, campaigning from his basement, well past his expiration date, wrong on every major foreign policy question of his career, Joe Biden. And in addition to losing the White House, his magnificent performance lost the House, the Senate, and six GOP governorships

    And we have the peevish, ideological conservatives shuffled to the bottom of the deck by the rise of populism in the party whose rank and file they betrayed for decades; who abandoned their party’s nominee and voted for this brain-damaged wind-bagged boob to thank for it, AJ.

    DCSCA (c4ce5f)


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