Patterico's Pontifications

5/19/2022

Russian Military Analyst Boldly Says The Quiet Part Out Loud: …The Whole World Is Against Us … We Need To Get Out Of This Situation

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:18 am



[guest post by Dana]

Three months into a humiliating war, a well-known Russian military analyst and veteran shocked his fellow guests on state-controlled television by offering an honest, no holds barred assessment of Russia’s current status in the unprovoked war with Ukraine while simultaneously giving Ukraine a much-needed gift of hope:

“The situation, frankly speaking, will get worse for us,” Mikhail Khodaryonok, a retired Russian army colonel, told the “60 Minutes” talk show on Rossiya-1 TV program hosted by Olga Skabeyeva, who’s renowned for her pro-Kremlin stance.

“You should not swallow informational tranquilizers,” Khodaryonok told the host as he warned that Ukraine was in no way near being beaten by Russia, and that Kyiv could mobilize and arm a million people if it wanted to.

The report notes that Khodaryonok had warned against invading Ukraine. Russia has faced several humiliations in the face of Ukrainian determination to push back the invaders. As a result, Russia is now focused on Eastern Ukraine. Khodaryonok also noted the difference between the invading force and the everyday Ukrainians willing to take up arms to defend their homeland:

Khodaryonok emphasized that even if Ukraine had to rely on hundreds of thousands of conscripts that only had rudimentary military training, what mattered is that their hearts would be in the fight, and that would not bode well for Russia.

“The desire to defend one’s motherland in the sense that it exists in Ukraine — it really does exist there and they intend to fight to the last,” Khodaryonok said before he was interrupted by Skabeyeva who was trying to downplay the effectiveness of Ukraine’s forces.

“We need to treat this million Ukrainian soldiers as a reality in the nearest future,” he said.

I’ll leave you with Khodaryonok’s inarguable observation that left his fellow guests stunned:

“The main deficiency of our military-political position is that we are in full geopolitical solitude and — however we don’t want to admit it — practically the whole world is against us … and we need to get out of this situation”…

**It’s so shocking to hear such blunt unvarnished truth coming from a Russian veteran (and on state television), that I’m left wondering if Khodaryonok will soon disappear, or at the very least be compelled to publicly recant his observations? I suspect it’s only a matter of time…

Here’s Gary Kasparov confirming Khodaryonok’s concerns about the willingness of Ukrainians to fight for their homeland:

Moreover, in a recent report about the Mozart Group, which is currently in Ukraine to help train troops, the organization, which is made up of special-operations vets and whose two goals are: “to increase the Ukrainian military’s capability and sustainable capacity in a manner consistent with US foreign policy and to protect vulnerable civilians,” group leader Andy Milburn offered his observations on Russian and Ukrainian troops. Unsurprisingly, his views were similar to Khodaryonok’s when it came to troop resolve and morale, or the lack therein:

In areas where Ukrainians have fended off the Russian offensive, what do you think has allowed them to be successful?

Morale and resolve have been key components of success — but the terrain has been an important factor in enabling Ukrainian forces to hold their ground.

In the north and urban regions, the Russian proclivity to remain on the roads has played against them. Outside the cities in the north, the ground is either thickly wooded or swampy, and this has allowed the defenders to infiltrate easily through Russian lines to strike armored columns from the flank.

What’s your assessment of the Russian military’s performance so far? Is there anything it did well, and to what would you attribute its struggles?

Russian units here have proven to be singularly unimpressive. Almost without exception, they are poorly trained, ill-disciplined, and lack cohesion. Their tactics belong to a bygone era — little understanding of combined arms and no infantry integration with their armored attacks.

**I wrote this post yesterday afternoon, and this morning checked for any updated information on Khodaryonok. Sure enough, he is backpedaling on his assessment:

Regardless of his corrections, the damage is done and we all know it. Especially Ukraine. Also, Khodaryonok gets to live another day.

–Dana

96 Responses to “Russian Military Analyst Boldly Says The Quiet Part Out Loud: …The Whole World Is Against Us … We Need To Get Out Of This Situation”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  2. Here’s the calculation:

    1. Putin is all in.
    2. Russia needs to get out.
    3. Russia needs to get rid of Putin.

    I would very much like to see Putin on trial in Kyiv. Failing that, at The Hague.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  3. In the north and urban regions, the Russian proclivity to remain on the roads has played against them. Outside the cities in the north, the ground is either thickly wooded or swampy, and this has allowed the defenders to infiltrate easily through Russian lines to strike armored columns from the flank.

    “Wolverines!!!”

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  4. Prominent Russian military analyst slams Ukraine invasion on state TV, backpedals 2 days later
    ……..
    ……..On Wednesday, 60 Minutes had Khodarenok on again, and he sounded very different.

    “When people talk about Ukraine acquiring the ability to counterattack, well it’s a big exaggeration,” Khodarenok said Wednesday afternoon. “And as concerns the actions of our supreme command, there is every reason to believe that the implementation of these plans will in the very near future give Ukraine an unpleasant surprise.”

    “On Monday, many found themselves wondering whether Khodarenok had been allowed to pierce the bubble of state TV’s alternative reality in order to manage expectations in the ‘special military operation,'” BBC News reports. “But narratives are tightly controlled by the Kremlin, and to backpedal so soon surely suggests that the colonel has been reined back in.”

    Khodarenok “seems to have changed his tune since yesterday,” (retired Lt. General Mark) Hertling agreed, but when he talks about “how Russian artillery is hitting Ukraine’s new M777 [howitzers],” Khodarenok is “full of BS,” and he “should go back to stating how bad Russia is doing in this war, and not propagandizing the poor effects of Russian artillery against Ukraine.”
    ……….

    Must have found a Russian bear in his bed.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  5. Correct link for post 4.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  6. ‘So many Ukrainians went back to fight that there is a shortage in Poland of taxi drivers, construction workers, and other such jobs. Let that sink in. And yet some still talk like we’re giving charity to Ukraine as they sacrifice their lives for us.’ – Garry Kasparov

    Pfft. As of 2021, Garry Kasparov has a net worth of nearly $5 million. So write a check for $4 million, Garry– you can get along on $1 million

    $50 BILLION DOLLARS BORROWED FROM ADVERSAY RED CHINA- GIVEN TO UKRAINE through SEPTEMBER by the citizens of the U.S.to a corrupt country nearly as corrupt as Russia.

    That IS charity. Let that “sink in,” Garry. Idiot.

    Checkmate.

    DCSCA (895665)

  7. I would very much like to see Putin on trial in Kyiv. Failing that, at The Hague.

    More likely you’ll see Putin preserved in a glass box in Lenin’s Tomb — if you ever get to Moscow. 😉

    DCSCA (895665)

  8. More likely you’ll see Putin preserved in a glass box in Lenin’s Tomb

    Perhaps, but I think they’ll retouch the bullet holes.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  9. @8. ROFLMAOPOIP

    DCSCA (895665)

  10. Senate passes $40B Ukraine aid bill after week-long Rand Paul holdup

    The Senate finally approved an additional $40 billion in military and humanitarian aid for Ukraine on Thursday after Sen. Rand Paul blocked the legislation’s swift passage last week — much to the ire of his colleagues.

    Paul — who had delayed the proposal to insist on language appointing a special inspector general to oversee the distribution of the money — was one of 11 Republicans to vote against final passage, along with Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee, John Boozman of Arkansas, Mike Braun of Indiana, Mike Crapo of Idaho, Bill Hagerty of Tennessee, Josh Hawley of Missouri, Mike Lee of Utah, Cynthia Lummis of Wyoming, Roger Marshall of Kansas, and Tommy Tuberville of Alabama.

    https://nypost.com/2022/05/19/senate-passes-40b-ukraine-aid-bill-after-week-long-holdup/

    … and the Military Industrial Complex smiled.

    DCSCA (895665)

  11. “I applaud the Congress for sending a clear bipartisan message to the world that the people of the United States stand together with the brave people of Ukraine as they defend their democracy and freedom,” Biden said in a statement following the vote. “The resources that I requested will allow us to send even more weapons and ammunition to Ukraine, replenish our own stockpile, and support U.S. troops stationed on NATO territory.”

    Memo to Joe: F.U.

    “‘We are all out of corn flakes. -F.U.’ It took me three hours to figure out that ‘F.U.’ was Felix Unger!” – Oscar Madison [Walter Matthau] ‘ The Odd Couple’ 1968

    DCSCA (895665)

  12. If only DCCCP was so critical of all the rest of the deficit spending financed by the Chinese. But in the end, we know what this is.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  13. @12. But in the end, we know what this is.

    Yes: a proxy war.

    DCSCA (895665)

  14. DCSCA #13–

    Go tell the Ukranians that. You might want to take your dentures out first.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  15. @14. Pfft. When Moran and his gang are marching through Capone’s Red Square get back to me.

    DCSCA (895665)

  16. 16. And back atcha. I don’t remember Washington marching into London.

    Trying to conquer Moscow does have a way of ending badly. But so do Russian attempts to sustain its empire. (See WWI)

    Appalled (1a17de)

  17. Never forget, Appalled:

    “Putin knows, if I am President of the United States, his days of tyranny and trying to intimidate the United States and those in Eastern Europe are over. I’m going to stand up to him; he’s a bully. Vladimir Putin doesn’t want me to be President. He doesn’t want me to be our nominee. If you’re wondering why — it’s because I’m the only person in this field who’s ever gone toe-to-toe with him.” – Joe Biden 2019

    And the swamp creatured, brain-damaged imbecile has put $50 billion of our borrowed money from Red China where his motor-mouth BS is to fork over to a country nearly as corrupt as Russia itself.

    DCSCA (895665)

  18. @16.I don’t remember Washington marching into London.

    Pfft. GW was busy; John Adams did instead. But if you want to compare George Washington to the leader of a country nearly as corrupt as Russia, ex-comedian Bugs ‘Zelensky’ Moran, go for it. But a mark in your favor would be a copy of ‘George Washington’s Expense Account.’

    DCSCA (895665)

  19. Did my part- contacted both senators and my rep voicing opposition to passing the $40 billion freebee package. And rec’d in return: emails soliciting campaign contributions. LOL ‘Storm the castle.’

    DCSCA (895665)

  20. #17

    Do you seriously think that Biden was spoiling for a fight against Russia? This seems like more of the fatuous tough guy blather that Biden has been expressing in his dotage.

    As you have noted, Putin has been spoiling for a fight against Ukraine — all the way since 2004, when they threw out the first of his puppets. You’d think he would have been better prepared. Idiot

    Appalled (1a17de)

  21. 20 members of Congress personally invest in top weapons contractors that’ll profit from the just-passed $40 billion Ukraine aid package

    At least 20 federal lawmakers or their spouses hold stock in Raytheon Technologies and Lockheed Martin, which manufacture the weapons Western allies are sending Ukraine to fight Russian invaders, according to an Insider analysis of federal financial records.
    …….
    Among those investing in the defense contractors is Republican Rep. John Rutherford of Florida who purchased between $1,001 and $15,000 worth of Raytheon stock on February 24 — the day Russia invaded Ukraine.

    Rutherford sits on the House Appropriations Committee that’s in charge of federal government spending. In that role he serves on the subcommittee for Homeland Security as well as the Military Construction, Veterans Affairs, and Related Agencies subcommittee.
    ………
    Another Republican, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, bought between $1,001 and $15,000 in Lockheed Martin shares on February 22.

    Two days after her purchase, Greene wrote in a Twitter thread: “War is big business to our leaders.”
    …….
    Other federal lawmakers have traded stock in the defense contractors in recent weeks. Republican Rep. Diana Harshbarger of Tennessee and her husband made three separate Raytheon trades worth up to $15,000 and Democratic Rep. Lois Frankel of Florida sold up to $15,000 in Lockheed Martin stock but retained shares in the company.

    All trades happened in January — close to when the Wall Street Journal reported that the United States permitted Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania to dispatch the Javelin and Stinger missiles to Ukraine.
    ……..
    Most lawmakers who hold shares in Raytheon and Lockheed Martin did not reply to Insider’s request for comment. The list includes:

    Sen. Deb Fischer, a Republican of Nebraska, inherited between $50,001 to $100,000 in Lockheed Martin stock from her mother after she died on December 26, 2021. Fischer is the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Subcommittee on Strategic Forces.

    Sen. John Hickenlooper, a Democrat of Colorado, held between $100,001 and $250,000 in Raytheon shares, according to his most recent annual disclosure.

    Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, a Democrat of Rhode Island, held $15,001 to $50,000 in Lockheed Martin stock. He also held between $50,001 and $100,000 in stock in United Technologies, which was acquired by Raytheon.

    Sen. Shelley Moore Capito, a Republican of West Virginia, held between $1,001 and $15,000 in Lockheed Martin stock, her annual disclosures indicate. Her husband, Charlie Capito, who previously worked in finance, held between $1,001 and $15,000 in United Technologies, now acquired by Raytheon.

    Sen. Gary Peters, a Democrat of Michigan, held between $1,001 and $15,000 in Raytheon stock. Peters chairs the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee as well as the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
    ……..
    Rep. John Curtis, a Republican of Utah, purchased between $1,001 and $15,000 in Raytheon shares in June 2021. He also held Lockheed Martin stock but public disclosures appear to show that he sold it in November 2021.
    ……..
    …….[A]t least 15 lawmakers…..(invested) in the stock of defense contractors and hold powerful positions on a pair of House and Senate committees that control US military policy.

    Together, these 15 lawmakers’ defense contractor investments were worth up to nearly $1 million at the end of 2020.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  22. #18

    Hey, when the fight is Bugs Moran vs Hitler, I go with Bugs.

    Humphery Bogart: Now listen, DCSCA, I know you’re no mental giant, but try to juggle this… all of you. I got a firsthand report tonight on what it’s like on the other side, from that Putin babe. And brother, I’m telling you, we gotta watch our steps. Those babies are strictly no good from way down deep. They’re no bunch of petty racketeers trying to muscle in on some small territory – they want to move in wholesale, take over the whole country. All Through the Night (1942)

    Appalled (1a17de)

  23. 20 members of Congress personally invest in top weapons contractors that’ll profit from the just-passed $40 billion Ukraine aid package

    20 members of Congress are invested in any given blue-chip stock.

    And just think what interests the members of the Federal Reserve Board have.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  24. @20. Idiot? Are you serious? Angry Irish Biden bloviates about taking on everybody ‘behind the gymnasium.’ There’s your idiot.

    Only this time, Putin chose to move on this motor mouth’s watch because he knew the idiot was weak old sh-tshoveler of 50 years sh-tshovelling experience that is all talk and a reactive, not proactive swamp creature- and totally fvcked up the Afghan withdrawal. Just look at how he’s ‘reacting’ to dealing with something as basic as baby formula shortages.

    And w/t New World Order proclaimed, China has Putin’s back– and their blessing to take the jab as China prepares for the sucker punch at Taiwan. Russia is China’s b-tch.

    Putin’s ‘preparedness’- clearly overestimated by U.S. intel for decades- to the lucrative joy of the MIC- is just another benchmark- like 20 years in Afghanistan- or a decade in Vietnam- reaffirming Eisenhower’s prescient warning: “We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.” – President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

    DCSCA (895665)

  25. @22. Hey, when the fight is Bugs Moran vs Hitler…

    Except it’s not.

    It’s Moran vs. Capone.

    DCSCA (895665)

  26. Another Republican, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, bought between $1,001 and $15,000 in Lockheed Martin shares on February 22.

    Do you think that owning $15K of Lockheed-Martin will influence MTG into doing something stupid?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  27. Appalled, Hitler blitzkrieged France in 60 days and drove the AEF into the sea at Dunkirk.

    Vlad is no Hitler.

    DCSCA (895665)

  28. DCSCA,

    Don’t call Appalled an idiot. His opinion is completely valid,

    EPWJ (ded958)

  29. @26. They’re all crooks, working off insider trading info; that’s why wealthy Pelosi opposes any valid effort to have Congress divest themselves of stocks while in office. $15/pint ice ain’t cheap. Well now, w/inflation, it’s probably $20 a pint. 😉

    Pelosi House ramps up perks like Peloton, liquor store while Americans scramble for baby formula

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi belatedly jumped into America’s baby formula crisis on Friday, calling nationwide shortages “unconscionable” and setting an emergency vote next week. But while she tried to get Democrats caught up on a crisis that caught them by surprise, her administrative office was busy ramping up new perks for lawmakers.

    House members were alerted to two new perks this week compliments of the chamber’s Democrat leadership: fully paid memberships to Peloton gyms as well as a brand new liquor and drinks outlet.

    Republicans immediately seized on the optics, saying doling out additional benefits to lawmakers when everyday Americans are struggling to fill gas tanks, grocery carts or baby bottles was a bridge too far, even for Washington.’

    https://justthenews.com/government/congress/pelosis-house-ramps-perks-peloton-liquor-store-while-americans-scramble-baby

    Storm the castle.

    DCSCA (895665)

  30. @28. Didn’t. Read.

    DCSCA (895665)

  31. “We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.” – President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

    We are long past that time. The Cold War is over and the military is just one of several supplicants. ONe could talk today about the Education Lobby, the Health Lobby, the Old Folks Lobby, the Hi Tech Lobby (not the same as the military lobby) and probably the Government Client Lobby.

    There is no danger of “the acquisition of unwarranted influence” by the military. Too many other panhandlers in the room.

    But as usual, your thinking is stuck in 1960. You and Bob Dole.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  32. @28. Besides, EPWJ, you have it backwards- but it doesn’t bother me. as Appalled said: As you have noted, Putin has been spoiling for a fight against Ukraine — all the way since 2004, when they threw out the first of his puppets. You’d think he would have been better prepared. Idiot

    DCSCA (895665)

  33. Another Republican, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, bought between $1,001 and $15,000 in Lockheed Martin shares on February 22.

    Do you think that owning $15K of Lockheed-Martin will influence MTG into doing something stupid?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 5/19/2022 @ 2:14 pm

    I think the point of including her was the hypocrisy. She was quoted as tweeting: “War is big business to our leaders.” She was right about that.

    Most of the members use the excuse that “someone else made the trades, I’m not involved.” Weak “plausible” deniability.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  34. We are long past that time.

    No we’re not. And if anything, it is more valid today than ever. Especially when any effort to fulfill wishes now involves borrowing billions from an adversary who wants more control over the fate of the country. And they’re winning at it. It took less than three weeks to shovel $40- billion out the door. Xi is beaming.

    DCSCA (895665)

  35. #27

    Vlad thought he’d have Ukraine in 3 days. So, maybe, would-be Hitler?

    In seriousness, you are trying to say Ukraine and Russia, in the ethical-moral spectrum, are exactly just the same. They aren’t. Ukranian corruption does matter when you are throwing 50 billion at them — so I don’t view it as a non-issue. But — dude — they didn’t attack anyone. They just want to be independent, just like those annoying Poles and Finns during WW II.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  36. Just to be clear, I wasn’t calling DCSCA an idiot, and he wasn’t calling me an idiot. I was calling Putin an idiot. For someone who’s been dreaming of his Ukranian contest for years and years and years, he didn’t ensure there was a decent plan in place or plans b and c or d.

    IDIOT

    Appalled (1a17de)

  37. RIP Vangelis (79) and Rosemarie Trapp (93).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  38. @36. Right. Totally. Agree. We’re just word-jousting- not name calling each other. And yes, Putin’s an idiot; Joe’s an idiot; Trump’s an imbecile; Chuck’s a windbag, Mitch is an old tortise and Nancy’s the Wicked Witch of the West who talks with her hands.

    We’re such a better people and deserve better leadership than this. 😉

    DCSCA (895665)

  39. There is no danger of “the acquisition of unwarranted influence” by the military.

    Exceptr there is:

    The United States spends more money on the military than any other country in the world. and somehow, it’s never enough.

    Top 10 Countries with the Highest Military Expenditures (2020)

    1.The United States — $778 billion
    2.China — $252 billion [estimated]
    3.India — $72.9 billion
    4.Russia — $61.7 billion
    5.United Kingdom — $59.2 billion

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/military-spending-by-country

    DCSCA (895665)

  40. @35. In seriousness, you are trying to say Ukraine and Russia, in the ethical-moral spectrum, are exactly just the same. They aren’t. Ukranian corruption does matter when you are throwing 50 billion at them — so I don’t view it as a non-issue. But — dude — they didn’t attack anyone. They just want to be independent, just like those annoying Poles and Finns during WW II.

    But that’s a small window that ignores the bigger picture of Ukraine’s lengthy relationship with Russia. TIt has been turbulent for a very, very long time- not confined to just the past few decades. It’s a REGIONAL CONFLICT. And from Putin’s POV, Ukraine was part of his beloved USSR. You don’t have to agree w/it, but see it from his POV. Just peruse this list of peole from Ukraine and their ties to Russia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_Ukraine

    Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Chernenko– all leaders of the USSR, were from Ukraine. Korolev, father of the Russian space program was from Ukraine… it’s quite an impressive list– and the roots run deep.

    This is a wholly regional conflict for Europe to manage– and the United States has no business butting into it– especially with $50 billion borrowed from an adversary.

    If Texas declared itself a republic again and broke away from the U.S.- and conflict erupted [remember 1861-1865] Americans would be pretty ticked off if any outsiders involved themselves. Back in the war between the states, the Brits back the Confederates– Czarist Russia supported the Union primarily because its main geopolitical enemy at that time was… Great Britain.

    DCSCA (895665)

  41. Top 10 Countries with the Highest Military Expenditures (2020)

    The military budget in 1955 was about $30 billion. Added to that were prior authorizations for future spending bringing total authorized military spending to over $90 billion (1955 dollars). The overall budget was about $60 billion, so the DoD budget was roughly half of all budget spending.

    In FY 2019, the last before things went sideways, the military budget was $676 billion out of $4.45 trillion in outlays, or 15%. Things have changed.

    Comparing our military spending to other countries is idiotic as they don’t have our economy. If they did, they would spend more.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  42. You shouldn’t blame Khrushchev on the Ukrainians:

    Khrushchev was born on 15 April 1894,[b][2] in Kalinovka,[3] a village in what is now Russia’s Kursk Oblast, near the present Ukrainian border.[4] His parents, Sergei Khrushchev and Kseniya Khrushcheva, were poor peasants of Russian[4][5] origin, . . .

    He was born in Russia of Russian parents. I thought everyone knew that.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  43. @42.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_from_Ukraine#Bolsheviks_and_Soviet_politicians

    Bolsheviks and Soviet politicians

    Vladimir Antonov-Ovseyenko, Bolshevik leader and diplomat, one of the leaders of the October revolution
    Yevgenia Bosch, Bolshevik politician, People’s Secretary of Internal Affairs (1917–1918)
    Leonid Brezhnev, Soviet leader (1964–1982)
    Konstantin Chernenko, Soviet leader (1984–1985), Brezhnev’s chief of staff
    Boris Shcherbina, a Soviet politician who served as a vice-chairman of the Council of Ministers from 1984 to 1989. Supervisor of Soviet crisis management during 1986 Chernobyl disaster and the 1988 Armenian earthquake.
    Grigory Petrovsky- Old Bolshevik, participated in signing the Treaty on the Creation of the USSR, one of the officials responsible for implementing Stalin’s policies such as collectivization.
    Hryhoriy Hrynko – finance minister of the Soviet Union (1930-1937)
    Vlas Chubar – finance minister of the Soviet Union (1937-1938)
    Yakov Malik, the head of the Africa department of the Soviet ministry of Foreign affairs, Soviet ambassador to the United Kingdom,
    Vitold Fokin, Soviet politician, Central Planning Commission head, first PM after the Independence
    Yakov Gamarnik, Soviet politician
    Serafima Hopner, Bolshevik politician
    Semyon Ignatyev, Soviet politician
    Adolph Joffe, Soviet diplomat
    Lazar Kaganovich, Soviet politician
    Yuriy Kotsiubynsky, Bolshevik politician
    Nikita Khrushchev, Soviet leader (1953–1964), returned Crimea to Ukraine
    Emanuel Kviring, Bolshevik politician
    Anatoly Lunacharsky, first Soviet education minister, Latin alphabet advocate (similar to Atatürk), was sidelined by Stalin
    Solomon Lozovsky, Bolshevik politician
    Dmitry Manuilsky, Bolshevik politician
    Vitaliy Masol, Central Planning Commission head, third PM after the Independence
    Lev Mekhlis, Soviet politician
    Nikolai Podgorny, Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR (1965–1977), betrayed Khrushchev and later regretted
    Georgy Pyatakov, Bolshevik revolutionary, Trotskyist
    Karl Radek, Bolshevik politician
    Christian Rakovsky, Bolshevik politician
    Vladimir Semichastny, Soviet politician
    Petro Shelest, leader of the Communist Party of Ukraine (1963–1972), betrayed Khrushchev and later regretted
    Mykola Skrypnyk, Bolshevik leader
    Volodymyr Shcherbytsky, leader of the Communist Party of Ukraine (1972–1989), supported Gorbachev and later regretted
    Valentyna Shevchenko, the only female Chairperson of the Presidium of the Verkhovna Rada
    Leon Trotsky, leading Bolshevik revolutionary, founder of the Red Army
    Moisei Uritsky, Bolshevik revolutionary
    Volodymyr Zatonsky, Bolshevik politician
    Grigory Zinoviev, Bolshevik revolutionary

    So file a conflict/correction w/ ’em.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  44. As for Brezhnev, it’s unclear:

    Brezhnev was born on 19 December 1906 in Kamenskoye (now Kamianske, Ukraine) within the Yekaterinoslav Governorate of the Russian Empire, to metalworker Ilya Yakovlevich Brezhnev (1874–1934) and his wife, Natalia Denisovna Mazalova (1886–1975). His parents lived in Brezhnevo (Kursky District, Kursk Oblast, Russia) before moving to Kamenskoe. Brezhnev’s ethnicity was given as Ukrainian in some documents, including his passport,[3][4][5] and Russian in others

    Since his parents first lived in the Kursk area, it would be more likely that they were Russian.

    And, as for Chernenko, it is highly unlikely, since he was “[b]orn to a poor family from Siberia . . . ” No doubt there were a few Ukrainians in Siberia at the time, but there were far more Russians, and far more from the various indigenous groups that had been conquered by the Russian empire.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  45. @44. If you believe so- tell’em and file your evidence. Unless you’re prone to disinformation disputes a la Big Tobacco and Big Oil back in the day.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  46. It’s a REGIONAL CONFLICT.

    Just like Hitler’s invasion of Poland was a regional conflict.

    Had Hitler not declared war on the U.S., and left U.S. shipping alone, DCSCA would have been in full support of staying out of the European theater. Who cares if Hitler conquered Europe, right, DCSCA? That was a matter for Europeans to settle.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  47. norcal (3f02c4) — 5/19/2022 @ 5:03 pm

    notice the question is always posed about ww2

    what do you think would’ve happened had we stayed out of ww1?

    JF (e4c056)

  48. It is clear that atrocities have been committed in Ukraine. This is most well-documented in Bucha. Putin personally gave decorations to the soldiers that occupied Bucha. This makes Putin personally responsible for what happened there, as it was clearly something he approved of.

    At what point does he become an international war criminal, arrestable and tryable by any jurisdiction? Should the United States indict him at this point?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  49. what do you think would’ve happened had we stayed out of ww1?

    The Soviet Union would have rolled down on the stalemate in the early 20s.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  50. At what point does he become an international war criminal, arrestable and tryable by any jurisdiction? Should the United States indict him at this point?
    Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 5/19/2022 @ 5:24 pm

    [ places tin foil hat on head] I will say “when his actions directly threaten the plans of the shadow power players.”

    There is always someone bigger.

    felipe (484255)

  51. @46. Who cares if Hitler conquered Europe, right, DCSCA? That was a matter for Europeans to settle.

    Yes, norcal. Go back and review where America was then, coming out of the Depression, and less than 20 years after jumping into the slaughter of WW1; pretty much all of America was not keen on getting involved in another European war:

    ‘During an emergency cabinet meeting called by Roosevelt immediately after the war erupted in Europe, it was agreed that the United States would remain an outside influence unless directly threatened or attacked.

    Even had the government backed the war, the United States was still getting over the turmoil of World War I. The general public was not ready to join another war, opting for neutrality. A poll taken in 1939, after the outbreak of war, showed 94% as being against going to war.’

    https://pearlharbor.org/didnt-american-initially-join-war/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20didn%E2%80%99t%20want%20to%20intervene.%20During,an%20outside%20influence%20unless%20directly%20threatened%20or%20attacked.

    Today we have the defensive alliance of NATO. That’s what it’s for. And Ukraine is NOT a member of NATO.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  52. The Soviet Union would have rolled down on the stalemate in the early 20s.

    When in the Soviet Union back in the day, and this discussion came up w/some Russians we broke bread with- they’d always bring up the time of the U.S. ‘invasion’ of Russian territory, which was embarrassing to discuss in the give and take. Russians have long memories:

    The Day That The USA Invaded Russia And Fought The Red Army

    https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-i/the-day-that-the-usa-invaded-russia-and-fought-with-the-red-army-x.html?edg-c=1

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  53. Comparing our military spending to other countries is idiotic as they don’t have our economy.

    The size of the economy has nothing to do with it; it’s the need vs. cost. In WW2, the formula was to procure armaments that could be absorbed as combat losses at an affordable cost; planes, ships, rifles, helmets etc. Hearing were held constantly to monitor war profiteering. Hell, Hughes was raked over the coals for the Spruce Goose.

    Today, it’s just the opposite and a lucrative cash cow to the MIC which Ike warned about. We build $15 billion aircraft carriers that cost $4 billion/year or so to operate which can be sunk by $2 million dollar Exocet missiles. It’s nuts.

    Look at the cost of the arson fire on the USS Bonhomme Richard. The cost of repairing the ship was estimated to be between $2.5 billion and $3.2 billion. The cost and time involved were deemed to be too much by Navy leadership- so they’re scrapping it. Replacing it: in 2020, the cost of replacing the ship was estimated to be about $4 billion. Nuts!

    Watch a $2 billion B-2 bomber go up in smoke- not in co0mbat byt in an accident:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9hb-OutGAY

    This is just crazy. We procure weapons systems today not designed to be affordable, acceptable losses in combat but too costly and expensive to afford to lose in war. Or worse, abandon to the enemy as in Afghanistan. That’s what is “idiotic.” And the military Industrial Complex loves it- which is exactly what Eisenhower warned of in 1961.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  54. Already, by March of 1941, a majority of Americans favored giving Britain the kind of aid we are giving Ukraine:

    After a decade of neutrality, Roosevelt knew that the change to Allied support must be gradual, given the support for isolationism in the country. Originally, the American policy was to help the British but not join the war. During early February 1941, a Gallup poll revealed that 54% of Americans were in favor of giving aid to the British without qualifications of Lend-Lease. A further 15% were in favor of qualifications such as: “If it doesn’t get us into war,” or “If the British can give us some security for what we give them.” Only 22% were unequivocally against the President’s proposal. When poll participants were asked their party affiliation, the poll revealed a political divide: 69% of Democrats were unequivocally in favor of Lend-Lease, whereas only 38% of Republicans favored the bill without qualification. At least one poll spokesperson also noted that “approximately twice as many Republicans” gave “qualified answers as … Democrats.”

    (Similarly, a large percentage of Americans now support aid to Ukraine — in spite of Putin’s propaganda.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  55. @54. Except for a major and expensive difference: The Roosevelt Administration sold Liberty Bonds and War Bonds to finance aid— the Biden administration has not. And once the aid began to flow, it all became targets for Axis attack; or did you miss this news just yesterday:

    Congress gives WWII merchant marines highest civilian honor

    Though merchant mariners are not a part of any U.S. military branch, the U.S. government believes these mariners sustained greater casualties than any of the military services.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  56. Sen. Hawley: $40 Billion for Ukraine ‘Is Not In America’s Interests,’ Neglects the U.S. Border

    ‘Congress already allocated $13.6 billion to Ukraine back in March. The $40 billion package is a new allocation, which would make total aid so far this year $53.6 billion. The budget for the U.S. Defense Department in FY2022 is $782 billion. For comparison, an appropriation of $53.6 billion for Ukraine is 6.8% of the entire U.S. defense budget.’

    Spending $40 billion on Ukraine aid — more than three times what all of Europe has spent combined — is not in America’s interests,” tweeted Hawley on May 16.

    https://www.cnsnews.com/index.php/article/washington/michael-w-chapman/sen-hawley-40-billion-ukraine-not-americas-interests-neglects

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  57. Similarly, a large percentage of Americans now support aid to Ukraine

    OTOH

    Americans’ Strong Support for Ukraine Aid Is Slipping, Polls Suggest

    Americans’ strong support for Ukraine appears to be slipping, according to two Pew Research polls conducted in March and May, as the U.S. has worked to provide aid to the Eastern European nation. Pew found that 12 percent of U.S. adults now believe the country is providing too much support to Ukraine. That’s up from 7 percent in March, when Congress approved a $13.6 billion aid package.

    The share of Americans saying the support the U.S. is providing is “about right” rose from 32 percent in March to 35 percent in May, while fewer respondents now believe the U.S. isn’t doing enough. In March, 42 percent of Americans said the U.S. wasn’t doing enough, but that figure has fallen to just 31 percent… The new survey also found that the share of Americans who approve of the Biden administration’s handling of Ukraine stands at 45 percent – a slight decline on 47 percent approval in March.’

    https://www.newsweek.com/americans-strong-support-ukraine-aid-slipping-polls-suggest-1706361

    ROFLMAO And we all know, Newsweek and Pew are Putin propagandists.

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  58. Putin will be hospitalized with a bad cold from which he will not recover in Russia long before he is vulnerable to being arrested and tried as a war criminal.

    nk (5eb3bb)

  59. May 10, 1940: The German Army invaded the Netherlands, Belgium, and France.

    Q: Do you think the United States should declare war on Germany and send our army and navy abroad to fight?

    7% YES; 93% NO.

    Gallup Poll, May 18-23, 1940

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  60. Putin will be hospitalized with a bad cold from which he will not recover in Russia long before he is vulnerable to being arrested and tried as a war criminal.

    People in glass coffins seldom throw stones. Ask Lenin. 😉

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  61. Military spending should always be on the table; however, it must be strategically considered with an eye to current adversaries not looking back to WW1 and WW2. Even DCCCP’s favorite general, Ike, would acknowlege that how we prepared for those wars was not the way to do it and wouldn’t work with our Soviet competitors. But DCCCP’s wayback machine can’t locate those quotes.

    If a weapon system is anticipated to have a 30 year life cycle, it will always be risky forecasting precisely what you will need next. You know you need to replace planes, submarines, and missiles at their end of life, but with what exactly? Mix in that technology is king. Unlike DCCCP’s notion of mass quantities of cheap stuff, we want to create capabilities that the other side can’t handle or will cost them a lot of money to try and handle. Any general will say that we never want to go into a fair fight. But technology is risky…..how much…how fast…it’s not science.

    We know we need hypersonic weaponry to match the Chinese. We need to develop it. DCCCP foolishly chooses to give hand our enemy an advantage. Why when he claims he cares so much about a Taiwan invasion? Has he thought it through? He always says “pay yourself” but where does he think DoD dollars go? Does he know of no technologies that get to the civilian sector following DoD investment? Sad.

    We are likely behind the Chinese in Artificial Intelligence technology. Do we invest in that and leverage the dual-use possibilities or do we listen to DCCCP? He gives the impression that all $715B is going to military contractors and boondoggles, but he doesn’t say how much goes to paying kids from Mississippi to serve and develop skills for later time in the civilian workforce. How about maintenance and training so we don’t perform like the Russians in Ukraine? About 1/7 of the budget is going to RDTE which again goes to making us the baddest in every theater, including space.

    DCCCP wants to throttle our alliances, close our eyes to Putin’s territorial ambitions, cede technical supremacy to the Chinese, and invest in democratic socialism. As usual, he’s wrong. His time has passed.

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  62. @61. =yawn=

    An F-35 pilot’s helmet costs more than a Ferrari and takes two days to get fitted

    If you’re looking for a helmet for the advanced F-35 Lightning II, then get ready to put down enough money to buy a Ferrari sports car, undergo a two-day fitting process, keep your hair generally in the same shape, avoid putting on weight, and check in three times a year to make sure it still fits perfectly.

    https://armedforcesconnect.org/2021/08/11/an-f-35-pilots-helmet-costs-more-than-a-ferrari-and-takes-two-days-to-get-fitted/

    $400,000 helmet for F-35 fighter pilots ‘absolutely’ worth it say creator Rockwell Collins

    The F-35 Gen III Helmet Mounted Display System comes with a price tag between $300,000 and $400,000

    https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2018/01/advanced-400-000-helmet-for-f-35-fighter-pilots-absolutely-worth-the-money-creator-says/

    F-35 helmet costs $400,000 — 4 times that of predecessor

    $400,000 per helmet — more than four times as much as the Air Force paid for head wear for other aircraft such as the F-16.

    https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2015/10/26/f-35-helmet-costs-400000-4-times-that-of-predecessor/

    … and the Military Industrial Complex smiled.

    =mikedrop=

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  63. Unlike DCCCP’s notion of mass quantities of cheap stuff, we want to create capabilities that the other side can’t handle or will cost them a lot of money to try and handle.

    Pfft. It’s affordably vs. disposability, AJ:

    In 1941, a F6F Hellcat fighter cost $50,000: that’s $975,000 in 2022.

    The Air Force admits the F-35 fighter jet costs too much. So it wants to spend even more.

    With an estimated lifetime cost of $1.6 trillion, the F-35 Lightning II, conceived as a versatile, super stealthy next-generation fighter plane, is the most expensive weapon system ever built. When the program began way back in 1992, the F-35 was supposed to be an affordable one-size-fits-all solution for the Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. It took until this February for the Air Force to publicly admit that the F-16 replacement failed the affordability test.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/air-force-admits-f-35-fighter-jet-costs-too-much-ncna1259781

    US aircraft carrier costs are rising again, Navy budget shows

    https://www.stripes.com/branches/navy/2021-06-07/US-aircraft-carrier-costs-are-rising-again-Navy-budget-shows-1652936.html

    Golly. Stop making this soooooooooo easy, AJ. Everybody knows the only difference between hungry men and little boys is the price of their toys.

    “With six, you get eggroll.”- Mitch McClure [Jimmy Bracken] ‘With Six You Get Eggroll” 1968

    DCSCA (c508d6)

  64. “It’s affordably vs. disposability”

    A whole lot of frenzied thrusting….but alas a flacid tiny retort. Your comments reek of flop sweat and moth-balled thinking. Go back to the ’60’s hippie….

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  65. If DCSCA had been in charge, Hitler could have taken over the whole world, as long as he didn’t mess with the U.S.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  66. the rest of the world, not the whole world

    norcal (3f02c4)

  67. A fire breaks out on Walnut Street, which is two blocks away from Oak Street. DCSCA lives on Oak Street. His attitude? “Meh. I’m not about to lift a finger to help the people on Walnut Street. That’s their problem. I’ll worry about the fire when it gets to my house.”

    norcal (3f02c4)

  68. norcal must think ukraine is already part of nato

    JF (e4c056)

  69. NATO or no NATO, the principle holds.

    There was no NATO during WWII, but that doesn’t mean we should have sat silent while Hitler took over the rest of the planet.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  70. @64. =yawn= “In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.” – President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1/17/61

    =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (bacdd8)

  71. @65. =yawn= Hitler didn’t blitzkrieg NATO France, norcal.

    @68. Yeah. Waiting got him to quote Lincoln’s address to the USAAF’s 8th Air Force at Valley Forge, too. 😉

    DCSCA (bacdd8)

  72. ^got=for

    DCSCA (bacdd8)

  73. Has he thought it through? He always says “pay yourself” but where does he think DoD dollars go? Does he know of no technologies that get to the civilian sector following DoD investment? Sad.

    That he’s a big NASA booster (npi) makes that very ironic.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  74. Does anyone know who invented spread-spectrum communications (and patented it) during WW2? Ans what it was designed for?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  75. This site would be so much more interesting without the spam.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  76. 36 out of 75 comments so far.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  77. I know who invented the M&M during WW2- and who he stole the idea from.

    DCSCA (bacdd8)

  78. @74. I know who created Spam and why it became popular in WW2. But do tell us about spread-spectrum communications. Certainly it wasn’t patented by Mars Candy– or Hornel Foods. 😉

    DCSCA (bacdd8)

  79. Has he thought it through? He always says “pay yourself” but where does he think DoD dollars go? Does he know of no technologies that get to the civilian sector following DoD investment? Sad.

    Pfft. That’s your rationalization for cost overruns and waste? Guess Trump should have told Boeing to go ahead, gouge Uncle $am and keep ripping taxpayers off:

    Trump Targets Boeing for ‘Out of Control’ Air Force One Costs

    https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/trump-targets-boeing-for-out-of-control-air-force-one-costs

    Trump Persuades Boeing to Cut Cost of New Air Force One

    https://thenewamerican.com/trump-persuades-boeing-to-cut-cost-of-new-air-force-one/

    “Sad…”

    DCSCA (bacdd8)

  80. Spam that is sold in North America, South America, and Australia is produced in Austin, Minnesota (also known as “Spam Town USA”) and in Dubuque, Iowa.Austin, Minnesota also had a restaurant with a menu devoted exclusively to Spam, called “Johnny’s SPAMarama Menu”.[22]
    As bad as lutefisk soaked in lye. Haggis is another one – I couldn’t clean my plate.

    mg (8cbc69)

  81. My favorite: https://xkcd.com/386/

    AJ_Liberty (a36eed)

  82. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 5/19/2022 @ 11:23 pm

    Hedy Lamarr for torpedoes to secure their guidence systems from jamming.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr

    felipe (484255)

  83. @82. “That’s Hedley…” – Hedley Lamarr 😉

    “What are you worried about? It’s 1874, you can sue her!” – Governor William J. Lepetomane [Mel Brooks] ‘Blazing Saddles’ 1974

    DCSCA (4742d6)

  84. **I wrote this post yesterday afternoon, and this morning checked for any updated information on Khodaryonok. Sure enough, he is backpedaling on his assessment:

    That’s not the first time he backpedaled. I guess Try 2 was too soon.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/05/russian-colonel-putin-war-critics-tv.html

    Boldface mine.

    ….The retired colonel, Mikhail Khodaryonok, is a heavy hitter. As the former head of the Main Operational Directorate of the Russian armed forces’ General Staff and the editor of a leading journal that has published several highly influential articles over the past decade on how to modernize the military, Khodaryonok maintains strong ties with active-duty senior officers.

    More than that, he was an outspoken skeptic of the invasion a few weeks before it occurred—and was then forced to recant his views on the eve of the attack. Some took his initial remarks as evidence of turmoil within the military, then took his backpedaling as proof that Putin was crushing all dissent.

    Now the colonel’s reappearance on Russian TV may reflect a renewed boldness among critics within the military—and perhaps within the state broadcasting network for putting him on the air. At least one reputable Russian journalist is reporting that a long-standing rivalry between the military officers’ corps and an elite division of the intelligence service, whose members have held enormous sway over Putin’s views, is intensifying.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  85. OT- We’re coming up on three weeks– still no word on who the SCOTUS leaker was.

    ‘The Dancing Alitos’ are in final rehearsals.

    _____

    Government waste at work: WH reveals it is literally, physically flying the $40 billion Ukraine aid package legislation halfway around the world for Joe’s scrawl.

    Hell, he’ll be back in the U.S. by Wednesday as is. What’s the hurry– is he on a death watch or something? IDIOTS.

    DCSCA (4742d6)

  86. 2. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 5/19/2022 @ 10:43 am

    3. Russia needs to get rid of Putin.

    That’s what President Biden almost openly said when he visited Poland, but his security people decided it was too dangerous for him to even step into Ukraine.

    So he sent other people there, including his wife (she just barely crossed the border and met with Zelensky’s wife — the others went to Kyiv) . And they’ve even re-opened the embassy building in Kyiv for limited purposes. (there’s probably more going on wit employees sleeping in Poland and crossing over to Lviv for work.)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  87. @82,

    Hedy Lamarr was both beautiful and brilliant.

    Dana (2c7c1d)

  88. New York’s drop in relatieve population.

    There have been 435 members of the U.S House of Representative since 1911.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York%27s_congressional_districts#Current_(until_2023_inauguration)_districts_and_representatives

    The top number was 45 in the 1940s (47 electoral votes)

    Now New York State will have a total of 27.

    Obsolete districts
    New York’s 28th congressional district, obsolete since the 2010 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 29th congressional district, obsolete since the 2010 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 30th congressional district, obsolete since the 2000 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 31st congressional district, obsolete since the 2000 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 32nd congressional district, obsolete since the 1990 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 33rd congressional district, obsolete since the 1990 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 34th congressional district, obsolete since the 1990 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 35th congressional district, obsolete since the 1980 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 36th congressional district, obsolete since the 1980 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 37th congressional district, obsolete since the 1980 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 38th congressional district, obsolete since the 1980 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 39th congressional district, obsolete since the 1980 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 40th congressional district, obsolete since the 1970 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 41st congressional district, obsolete since the 1970 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 42nd congressional district, obsolete since the 1960 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 43rd congressional district, obsolete since the 1960 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 44th congressional district, obsolete since the 1950 U.S. Census.
    New York’s 45th congressional district, obsolete since the 1950 U.S. Census.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  89. Hedy Lamarr was both beautiful and brilliant.

    A knockout!

    DCSCA (9f117d)

  90. Max Boot thanks the man most responsible for uniting and strengthening Nato: Vladimir Putin:

    Less than three years ago, while President Donald Trump was threatening not to defend allies who didn’t pay enough for the privilege, French President Emmanuel Macron was lamenting the “brain death of NATO.” Things hardly seemed to improve when President Biden pulled U.S. troops out of Afghanistan (a NATO mission) after scant consultation with allies. As Kabul was falling, the Wall Street Journal ran an editorial headlined, “How Biden broke NATO.”

    It turns out NATO is neither brain dead nor broken. The unprovoked Russian invasion of Ukraine has given the alliance a new lease on life, making it more politically united and militarily formidable than at any time since the end of the Cold War.

    (Links omitted.)

    Credit where due.

    Jim Miller (406a93)

  91. Credit where due.

    Yeah, credit NATO.

    The alliance did exactly what it was designed to do. It has held the line and w/Article 5 in place, no MATO member has been attacked. Boot wants to credit the water for proving the drain still works.

    DCSCA (aee891)

  92. DCSCA, you missed Jim’s point about what led to NATO being strengthened.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  93. @93. No, norcal; both of you miss the point- the NATO alliance did exactly what it was designed to do when called upon. No NATO member border has been crossed.

    DCSCA (9ddc18)

  94. Nobody is arguing that, DCSCA. Like I said, point missed.

    norcal (3f02c4)

  95. @95. Yes, you did miss it.

    Sad.

    DCSCA (4d91ce)


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