Patterico's Pontifications


The Judge’s Rulings in the Kyle Rittenhouse Case, Part Two

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:41 pm


Earlier in the trial, the prosecution had asked for permission to introduce the statement, and the judge had denied it. Then the prosecutor, while questioning Rittenhouse, decided on his own that the “door had been opened” and that he could ask about the statement. The problem: he didn’t ask the judge first.

Big Mistake. This is Lawyering 101. If the judge has ruled certain evidence inadmissible, and you think the other side has “opened the door” to your bringing it up, because they went into some area that you believe justifies your making a reference to the inadmissible evidence, you cannot just take it upon yourself to ask the question about the inadmissible evidence. You absolutely must first ask the judge for permission to ask the question.

I’d say this chewing-out is mild given what the prosecutor did.

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21 Responses to “The Judge’s Rulings in the Kyle Rittenhouse Case, Part Two”

  1. “Don’t get brazen with me!”, propensity, which had been the subject of a motion in limine, was alleged prosecutorial error number two. Number one, which prompted the motion for a mistrial with prejudice, was the prosecutor’s pretty blatant attempt to impeach the defendant with his prior silence. Not on all fours a violation of Griffin v. California and neither squarely with Salinas v. Texas.

    Yes, a prosecution-friendly judge might have allowed it, and let the appellate courts worry about it. A bad judge might have ordered the mistrial with prejudice. A fair, thoughtful, and experienced judge would warn the prosecutor, loudly, that he was wading in quicksand and to back off. Which is what Schroeder did.

    DISCLAIMER: That’s just like my opinion, man.

    nk (1d9030)

  2. PS Let’s see how constrained the prosecutor feels at closing argument. Because, prior to his clumsy attempt to argue it on cross, I would have allowed him, on closing, to argue that the defendant had been present during the entirety of the State’s case and therefore knew how to tailor his own testimony. But I can understand why he wanted to dab ammonia on the kid’s testimony sting right away, ham-handed as he was about it.

    nk (1d9030)

  3. Some of the same people who think America’s Southern border should be open believe the Illinois-Wisconsin state line is sacrosanct.

    DN (181662)

  4. Some of the same people who think America’s Southern border should be open believe the Illinois-Wisconsin state line is sacrosanct.

    DN (181662) — 11/14/2021 @ 3:02 pm

    You’re never going to get these people on hypocrisy, because they literally don’t care if they’re intellectually consistent or not. All that matters to them is disrupting and destroying American society as it currently exists, and replacing it with their fantasy version of Fully Automated Gay Space Luxury Communism.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  5. It runs both ways. It’s not by chance that Illinois has signs at the border, on both I-90 and I-94, telling Wisconsinites that “Chicago Left”.

    nk (1d9030)

  6. But please to tell me … what makes you think that the mayor, the police, and people of Kenosha, who objected to rioters, looters, and arsonists coming to trash their town from as far as New Mexico, think that America’s Southern border should be open?

    nk (1d9030)

  7. I was obviously talking about the leftist politicians, media types, celebrities, etc.

    DN (181662)

  8. The prosecutor is a disgrace to his profession and should be fired and disbarred. The case should be dismissed with prejudice, but the judge is ruled by the mob and afraid of what they’ll do.

    Hopefully the jury looks at the lack of a case and rules justly. But I have my doubts.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  9. Wisconsin’s weird on it’s own: basically a colony of mid 19th century German socialists, was an original blue state (Dukakis in ’88) and was the 49th state to allow conceal carry barely ahead of IL but barely.

    urbanleftbehind (c4a7d7)

  10. But please to tell me

    Save the sassy whining for your momma, Bingerlover.

    “what makes you think that the mayor, the police, and people of Kenosha, who objected to rioters, looters, and arsonists coming to trash their town from as far as New Mexico, think that America’s Southern border should be open?”

    I sense that someone is trying to rewrite history to avoid the facts reflecting badly on himself!

    Whatever scattered statements you’re putting together to advance the novel position that there was top-down organized and government-supported resistance to the antifa rioters, instead of scattered citizen organizations taking scattered actions on their own with the official government response (outside of scattered policemen taking their own initiative to support the law-abiding citizen resistance)ranging from tacit acceptance of the rioters to full-blown opposition to the law-abiding citizens protecting their own property, there’s only one thing that’s clear:

    If they choose to express that “objection” collectively by having Kyle spend even a single day in jail, then their entire city deserves to burn in the ensuing antifa riot celebration with them inside.

    BoNKer (8d361f)

  11. Before nk pivots to the ‘WELL I GUESS WE’LL JUST SEE WHAT THE JURY SAYS’:

    The reality is this case is up in the air for really only one reason: the jury pool is filled with Americans of current year vintage.

    The corrupt DA, defense mistakes, even if Rittenhouse floundered on cross, none of these would be close to enough to secure a conviction by emotionally stable adult jurors.(Recall that the expression “no jury would convict him” was a testament to jury sensibilities in prior eras.)
    All that really is needed to arrive at near-instant acquittal is the fact of mob violence and Rittenhouse’s voluntary service to the community under assault. That’s it.

    Instead we see prosecutors argue that Rittenhouse provoked an armed angry mob by momentarily lifting his rifle (a factoid they discern from a blob of digital nothingness replayed over and over until it looks like it might look like something). No, an older generation of jurors simply wouldn’t have it.

    Ironically the midwestern midwit who declares, “He shouldn’t have been there!” doesn’t know anyone, including himself, who belongs anywhere in this cultural vacuum. You cannot go a thousand miles in any direction and detect people belonging more to one place than another, because it is all the same declining cesspool, of an emptiness and cheapness that would make a nihilist moan. Every time I look at a midwesterner, I see white space where a personality should be.

    “White space” is indeed the perfect metaphor for this modern American white and his habitat: completely empty, without identity, and dumbly unaware of everything. The midwestern white is not even made cynical by reality, he is instead childishly uncritical and emotive, as are most of the NeverTrumpers here when it comes to expressing motivated emotion about absolutely anything that does not relate immediately to their own Trump-hate.

    What enables a jury, or any collection of midwesterners, to shrug as a leftist prosecutor vilifies someone who was defending their very community is that they have never stopped being stupid children who fixate on the dumbest concerns. Let a midwesterner observe an out-of-towner passively defending a dumpster from a bunch of other out-of-towners who want to light it on fire and then throw rocks at the police, and the midwesterner will almost unfailingly become cranky about the dumpster guardian. What makes anyone believe that the midwesterner, who has done nothing of value for anyone his entire life, will identify with the man serving someone other than himself?

    The Democrats primarily take over a city’s key local power positions when there’s no local organization, pushback or fellow-feeling to stop them. Kyle was in fact in a place he shouldn’t have been: risking his life for a town occupied by dumb, childish current-year midwesterners who were never going to defend it themselves. It was unworthy of his time, his skills, and his youthful zeal to do the right thing, and now he has been taught his lesson.

    BoNKer (d876e1)

  12. The prosecutor is a disgrace to his profession and should be fired and disbarred.

    “Yeah, well, sometimes you get a pooch that can’t be screwed, ya know?”

    –Chuck Yeager, The Right Stuff

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. “Yeah, well, sometimes you get a pooch that can’t be screwed, ya know?”


    I detect contextual emotions in that statement that could range from tired resignation to successful plans of evil men to passive-aggressive mocking of those who naturally defended the right of all Americans to basic self-defense when they roll low and pull a childish, emotional jury

    None of these are emotions that grown-ass citizen adults should be expressing even in public, even in passing, much less for the record.
    Right now you’re sounding much more like the prosecutor than the judge. Kindly shut up until you can do something with your life that’s the tiniest percentage as significant as anything Chuck Yeager, proud Trump supporter and occasional Twitter troll, who had the tactical, intellectual, and physical history to make statements like this in ways that did not impeach his own or other’s personal courage did.

    DeKevinator (8bf517)

  14. It seems like the proecutors (and a lot of writers) are not familiar with the law:

    here was no dispute that Rittenhouse was 17 years old when he carried an AR-style semi-automatic rifle on the streets of Kenosha in August 2020 and used it to kill two men and wound a third.

    But the defense argued Wisconsin’s statute had an exception that could be read to clear Rittenhouse.

    That exception involved whether a rifle or shotgun was short-barreled.

    After prosecutors conceded in court Monday that Rittenhouse’s rifle was not short-barreled, Judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed the charge.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  15. YouTube keeps using its monopoly power to prevent people from discussing the Rittenhouse closing arguments unless they’re from a leftist perspective aka white man bad.

    NJRob (45de10)

  16. I mentioned that a while ago Sammy when people were claiming it was clearly illegal to carry the weapon and I said not so.

    NJRob (45de10)

  17. The prosecutor during closing arguments today waved and pointed at the jury and spectators an AR-15 rifle today, violating every rule of gun safety. He had his finger on the trigger.

    He did the exact same thing Alec Baldwin did a few weeks ago when he killed someone and wounded another.

    DN (181662)

  18. Except they guarded the gun a bit better. It is like Alec Baldwin did becuase Alec Baldwin was not supposed to pretend to fire the gun at that time.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  19. Maybe Alec Baldwin will play the prosecutor in the movie.

    DN (181662)

  20. Dirty political prosecution, they pushed back the prosecution of every single criminal witness to Kyle’s events until after Kyle’s trial to remove them from witness consideration.

    Fatlock and Hipster literally trying to say Rittenhouse should have punched his way out, is this the level of prosecution that you tolerate among your esteemed prosecutorial colleagues?

    Seems like any dumb-ass extralegal argument is tolerable for you, no wonder you all jumped on the Russian collusion bandwagon!

    Fettlelock cleanup (4eedbd)

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