Patterico's Pontifications

11/12/2021

Interview: Trump Refused To Condemn Supporters Who Wanted To Hang Mike Pence, Instead Believed They Were Justified

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:23 am



[guest post by Dana]

Has any former U.S. president defended those making threats of physical harm against his vice-president because they were, um, angry? And yet:

Former President Trump — in a taped interview with Jonathan Karl of ABC News that was shared with Axios — defended, quite extensively, supporters who threatened to “hang” former Vice President Mike Pence.

Jonathan Karl: “Were you worried about him during that siege? Were you worried about his safety?”

Trump: “No, I thought he was well-protected, and I had heard that he was in good shape. No. Because I had heard he was in very good shape. But, but, no, I think — ”

Karl: “Because you heard those chants — that was terrible. I mean — ”

Trump: “He could have — well, the people were very angry.”

Karl: “They were saying ‘hang Mike Pence.'”

Trump: “Because it’s common sense, Jon. It’s common sense that you’re supposed to protect. How can you — if you know a vote is fraudulent, right? — how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress? How can you do that? And I’m telling you: 50/50, it’s right down the middle for the top constitutional scholars when I speak to them. Anybody I spoke to — almost all of them at least pretty much agree, and some very much agree with me — because he’s passing on a vote that he knows is fraudulent. How can you pass a vote that you know is fraudulent? Now, when I spoke to him, I really talked about all of the fraudulent things that happened during the election. I didn’t talk about the main point, which is the legislatures did not approve — five states. The legislatures did not approve all of those changes that made the difference between a very easy win for me in the states, or a loss that was very close, because the losses were all very close.”

Why Mike Pence would ever speak to Trump after learning about this is beyond me. But given the kind of man we know Trump to be, it makes perfect sense that he would defend and justify his supporters’ bad behavior. He clearly remains obsessed with the 2020 election as he continues to push the same tired old lies about it. And he still refuses to acknowledge that, no matter how much he wrongly insists it’s true, a vice-president does not have the power to reject the Electoral College results. A very small man whose massive ego will not allow him to let go and move on.

You can hear this portion of the interview at the link above.

P.S. I am going to make this a standard pre-emptive strike on any future Trump posts because, given certain commenters, it has proven to be necessary: Unfortunately, Trump still matters because he continues to lead the pack of GOP hopefuls for 2024. And that is a problem for everyone.

–Dana

68 Responses to “Interview: Trump Refused To Condemn Supporters Who Wanted To Hang Mike Pence, Instead Believed They Were Justified”

  1. Pre-emptive strike: Unfortunately, Trump still matters because he continues to lead the pack of GOP hopefuls for 2024. And that is a problem for everyone.

    Dana (174549)

  2. Wow.

    Patterico (e349ce)

  3. How is this not seditious?

    * He having harangued a crowd, and sent the mob off to “do justice.”
    * The crowd immediately invaded the Capitol and threatened those charged with validating the Electoral Vote with injury or death
    * His own Vice President acted — even if you accept Trump’s ideas of his powers — within his discretion refused to subvert due process and followed Constitutional norms and applicable statutes.
    * And then the crowd threatened to hang the Vice President.

    And Trump is not only OK with all of this, he defends it as justified and presumably would see it all happen again.

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

    Arrest him and put him in the dock.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  4. *having

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  5. The statement that the “legislatures did not approve — five states” is completely delusional, this coming from a guy who was the most powerful man on earth at the time.
    Why again are a majority of Republicans falling in line with this nutjob?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  6. What can you say, he’s a self centered garbage person without loyalty or principle, beloved ppl of weak character and low self esteem

    Time123 (a416d0)

  7. While I think that Trump is guilty of many crimes, I doubt that either the US or NY will act. Trump is too useful in conflicting their opposition. Of course it would help if they weren’t crazier than Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. I am reading where some people are saying that Trump wasn’t really saying that he supported the mob calling to hang Pence. I don’t see how it can be read (or heard) any other way. I am not inclined to give Trump any benefit of the doubt. He doesn’t deserve it, nor do any past behaviors/statements justify doing so. Given that he egged the mob on up until the actual events of Jan. 6, there is no reason to believe that he then – and even now – would support *any* actions that would help him regain the WH.

    “Fight like hell,” Trump exhorted his partisans at the staging rally.

    Dana (174549)

  9. I’ve added Comment #1 to the post:

    P.S. I am going to make this a standard pre-emptive strike on any future Trump posts because, given certain commenters, it has proven to be necessary: Unfortunately, Trump still matters because he continues to lead the pack of GOP hopefuls for 2024. And that is a problem for everyone.

    Dana (174549)

  10. whatabout trump

    biden/harris must be really sucking

    JF (e1156d)

  11. Why Mike Pence would ever speak to Trump after learning about this is beyond me. But given the kind of man we know Trump to be […]

    Well, we also know what kind of man Pence is. He wants control and power as much as Trump does. He’s just more behaviorally constrained by his priors.

    john (e4323c)

  12. How is this not seditious?

    “When the President does it, that means it’s not illegal.” —President Richard Nixon, 1977 interview w/David Frost 😉

    The Most Outrageous Richard Nixon Quotes
    https://www.liveabout.com/richard-nixon-quotes-2733879

    Bob Woodward Shares ‘Chilling’ Words from Former President Richard Nixon About May 4 Shootings

    https://www.wksu.org/government-politics/2019-05-04/bob-woodward-shares-chilling-words-from-former-president-richard-nixon-about-may-4-shootings

    ‘[Woodward] said in preparation for his speech at Kent State, he contacted one of the nation’s leading scholars on the secret recordings made by then-President Richard Nixon of his meetings in the Oval Office. They discovered a previously unknown section — recorded in 1971 – in which Nixon discusses the Attica Prison uprising, which ended when New York State troopers dropped tear gas and opened fire, killing 29 inmates. Woodward quoted the exchange.

    “Nixon: ‘You know what I think? This might have one hell of a salutary effect. You know what stops them? Kill a few.’ ‘Sure,’ Haldeman said. Nixon: ‘Remember Kent State? Didn’t it have a hell of an effect?’”

    Woodward called the remark “chilling” and counts it among Nixon’s “most outrageous” statements.’

    Revealing take on the ‘insurrections’ of the day, then from a POTUS. We went from The Big Dick through Ford to Carter. These days we just cut out the ‘middle man’ and went from the Don direct to the Joe.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  13. “whatabout trump….biden/harris must be really sucking”

    JF’s way to deal with pathological behavior: let’s talk about the other guy….oh and they didn’t actually hang him, right?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  14. how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress? How can you do that? And I’m telling you: 50/50, it’s right down the middle for the top constitutional scholars when I speak to them.

    I don’t think it’s a random sample

    Anybody I spoke to — almost all of them at least pretty much agree,

    Well, is it “50-50,” “anybody” or “almost all of them?”

    Trump knows he can;t make a claim of higher than 50%, but he pushes the envelope.

    Ad what they would agree with maybe, is a scenario different from what actually occurred in all probability. Let’s say there were certificates issued by people who were not Electors

    and some very much agree with me

    now we get the dsinston betwwen “pretty much agree” ad “very much agree”

    — because he’s passing on a vote that he knows is fraudulent.

    which of course, he didn’t.

    People are going to try this again in Brazil.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  15. @13 lol that’s your way of dealing with it

    talk about the guy who’s not president, relentlessly, all the time

    i’m sorry your biden vote is so embarrassing to you

    JF (e1156d)

  16. Pre-emptive strike. What is that supposed to mean? Of course trump matters he is the leader of the now populist republican party.

    asset (04174f)

  17. #16 —- may I introduce you to #15?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  18. You don’t understand. Trump didn’t agree with hanging Pence. He was just on a rant, you know the thing he likes to do, and the media person deceitfully slipped in “Hang Michael Pence” in the middle, knowing of Trump’s weakness:

    https://thefederalist.com/2021/11/12/trump-never-defended-calls-to-hang-mike-pence-but-shameless-media-cant-stop-lying-about-it/

    The future Republican nominee for president likes to rant and it’s simply unfair for the press to expect him to pay attention to anything people say near him while he’s ranting.

    And of course the Federalist would like you to know that he’s right when he says all those 1/6 people are angry.

    In further news about the future Republican nominee for president, he and his people interfered with Covid response:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/12/trump-cdc-covid-521128

    And The Future Republican Nominee appointed a completely unexperienced 29 year old bag carrier, Johnny McEntee to be in charge of all hiring and firing of 4,000 federal employees in the last year of office, said bag carrier then spent his time grilling all employees on exactly how loyal they were to Trump:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/trump-johnny-mcentee-january-6-betrayal/620646/

    Trump’s possible future second term will be just a great good time for all of us here in the U.S.

    Victor (4959fb)

  19. , I thought he was well-protected, and I had heard that he was in good shape.

    The first thought makes sense, and is even probably true, but what does Mike Pence’s physical fitness have to do with anything? That he won’t get a heart attack??

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  20. Angry slogans not actually backed up by violent actions are part and parcel of demonstrations and should never be condemned legally or morally by any American who wants to encourage a culture of free speech.

    Wilful disregard of obvious vote fraud and dismissal of the evidential consideration is a hanging offense, but given that the behavior of the crowd was mostly peaceful even with well-documented brazen attempts at provocation via FBI and antifa agents provocateur and unwarranted deadly force used by trigger-happy Capitol security, Mr. Pence had little to fear from people who even respected the rope barriers in the gallery. Congress made a big show of fleeing, but Congress will make a big show of anything to get people to pay attention to them.

    These were not, after all, Democrat-sponsored rioters, with prior criminal histories and a reasonable expectation that they’ll easily get away legally with engaging in violence and mayhem. Trump rallies are and have been verified as the safest place for your physical safety, though you may suffer psychological damage from having honest opinions delivered freely.

    Moral police (f91a34)

  21. @JF, I didn’t vote for Biden (or Trump). I disagree profoundly with much of the Democrat platform. I doubt that Biden will be any more appealing in 2024…or Harris….or AOC. I would like to get back to voting for the GOP, who I share more principles with…at least prior to 2016. There’s no reason we need to be stuck with Trump….none…..except most Trump supporters want to ignore what he did post election…or play what-aboutism…or make false equivalencies…..or shockingly declare that the ends do in fact justify the means. There’s little point in attacking Biden if our answer is a megalomaniac who has zero reverence for the Constitution…and who demonstrates zero hesitation in asking people to violate the law…and twist reality. Biden is the price tag for the GOP enabling 4 years of Trumpism. I don’t want 4 more years of Democrat leadership because Republicans can’t honestly distance themselves from Trump. The GOP needs healthy competition…and right now Trumpism is stifling new ideas and voices….and elevating Trump-sycophants. Yelling at Biden avoids the heavy lifting of dealing with the cancer that is making the GOP the conspiracy crank party. What fight is more important?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  22. R.I.P. Graeme Edge, drummer for The Moody Blues

    Icy (6abb50)

  23. Moral police (f91a34) — 11/12/2021 @ 12:54 pm

    Angry slogans not actually backed up by violent actions are part and parcel of demonstrations and should never be condemned legally or morally by any American who wants to encourage a culture of free speech.

    Some people actually erected a noose. Of course they weren’t anywhere close to capturing Mike Pence so I suppose you could say it was all symbolic.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  24. Trump supporter plead guilty today to bringing unregistered firearms and Molotov cocktails to the Jan 6 assault on the capital.
    Overall it was mostly peaceful with only hundreds of Trump supporters violently trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after Trump lost the election.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/capitol-riot-suspect-brought-molotov-cocktails-dc-pleads-guilty-rcna5414

    I’m glad Mike Pence wasn’t harmed by any of these nut jobs.

    Time123 (a416d0)

  25. @21 for what it’s worth, trump isn’t my choice for nominee nor was he in 2016

    but, it’s not worth anything to say that, cuz if trump bowed out or if every trump supporter said “yeah, this is too much, I’m not voting for him this time” it wouldn’t matter

    the same people would just go after any candidate who didn’t cancel trump and apologize for ever supporting him

    just like the dems, the media and nevertrump lincoln project nutjobs tried with youngkin

    it was trump 24/7 for them and carrying around a repent!! sign, like it is with many here

    you learned nothing from the virginia victories

    JF (e1156d)

  26. “I would like to get back to voting for the GOP, who I share more principles with…at least prior to 2016.

    Yes, but the GOP’s principles prior to 2016 were and are losing principles. They lose so hard that even the current Democrat administration is loath to be seen as returning to them.

    “most Trump supporters want to ignore what he did post election…or play what-aboutism…or make false equivalencies…..or shockingly declare that the ends do in fact justify the means.”

    Maybe your free-trade/max immigration/max compliance policies are seen as generally always worse than having an uncivil guy in office, and thus people will go far above and beyond their normal standards to ensure that those policies never get formally enacted.

    “Biden is the price tag for the GOP enabling 4 years of Trumpism.”

    Biden is the price tag for GOPers like you returning to your vomitous anti-nationalist, anti-free-trade, and anti-tariff platform and colluding with the Democrats to weaken voting standards and disassociate yourselves from Trump.

    “The GOP needs healthy competition”

    What makes your toxic positions healthy now? What makes them healthy for any qualified candidate to associate with them?

    “What fight is more important?”

    Nowhere in that post did you mention the needs of ordinary Americans, which leads me to believe they generally don’t enter into your head at all. I assure you that NOT BEING SEEN AS A CONSPIRACY THEORIST, NOT BEING ASSOCIATED WITH A HIGH-PROFILE HOTHEAD, BEING UNIMPEACHABLE ON THE CHARGE OF WHATABOUTISM fall somewhere lower on the list than ‘being able to buy and hire American versions of all consumer products’, ‘having the same or greater standard of living as their parents’, or ‘being able to work and earn a living without having to follow a bunch of weird medical/religious rituals.’

    Though honestly your post should have been immediately thrown out the first moment you used the word ‘whataboutism’, a phrase used only by guilty people who hate being treated like other guilty people.

    Moral police (f8cda0)

  27. @24 clearly yet another suicide by cop plan that went awry

    JF (e1156d)

  28. The GOP needs The Aloha Sweetie.

    mg (8cbc69)

  29. “Overall it was mostly peaceful with only hundreds of Trump supporters violently trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after Trump lost the election.”

    There is no public recorded evidence for that incredibly description masquerading as a specific conspiracy to commit. There were scattered violent actions in and around the Capitol building but no evidence of any overarching plot or conspiracy to interfere with specific proceedings, despite the DC gulag holding hundreds of people present on scene without trial or representation.

    Even after breaching the Congress, the actual actions of the people on scene qualified mostly as ‘enhanced tourism’, doing far, far, less than they could have gotten away with and certainly didn’t kill anyone on scene. There were definitely injuries from the inexcusable lack of police presence to match the crowd size-but that was, in fact, Congress’ fault, wasn’t it?

    Moral police (553bf3)

  30. Of course trump matters he is the leader of the now populist republican party.

    Well, thing is, you may be looking through the wrong end of the telescope. It’s those 74-plus million who are ‘leading’ the party. Trump just happens to be the current flag bearer. ‘Pragmatic Populism’ – which is not unique to either party- has been rooting and growing for decades – chiefly due to disappointing underperformance by the candidates of the major parties. And it finally won out w/Trump. But it could have been anybody w/t right skill set and appeal. [The speeds and ease with which he swept aside his 16 or 17 GOP competitors– many quited experienced in Washington- is telling.] Once Trump is gone, another populist-type will pick up the banner and charge forward. The electoral patterns and numbers show it remains a vibrant and attractive movement in these times – increasingly appealing to indies not aligned w/either party– who simply want performance – or else ‘fire them’ and try another. And it will likely continue to grow for several cycles– especially when watered by the throw back to the ‘calm and stable’ experienced type we have now. The staggering incompetence of the current ‘experienced’ “folks” now in office only helps fuel the contrast and resolve. Biden and Harris have become Trump’s– and populisms– best campaigner.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  31. Wilful disregard of obvious vote fraud…

    What “obvious vote fraud”? Show me.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  32. “brazen attempts at provocation via FBI and antifa agents provocateur”

    The party of personal responsibility.

    Davethulhu (3cc5b4)

  33. Trump not only refused to condemn his supporters, he praised the crowd who rioted for MAGA.

    “I know your pain, I know you’re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us. It was a landslide election and everyone knows it, especially the other side. But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order.

    “We don’t want anybody hurt. It’s a very tough period of time. There’s never been a time like this, where such a thing happened, where they could take it away from all of us. From me, from you, from our country. This was a fraudulent election, but we can’t play into the hands of these people. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you, you’re very special.”
    –Donald J. Trump, 1/6/2021, sympathizing with and praising his mob MAGA zealots

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  34. R.I.P. Glen M. de Vries, 49.

    Plane crash. He flew into space along w/ William Shatner- aka ‘Captain Kirk’ of Star Trek fame, Audrey Powers and Chris Boshuizen just a month ago aboard Bezos’ ‘New Shepard’ space capsule.

    Tragic.

    “He’s dead, Jim.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  35. What “obvious vote fraud”? Show me.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/12/2021 @ 1:57 pm

    Don’t bother, Paul. It’ll be the same stuff it’s been before, that’s already been debunked from here to Timbuktu. Maybe tweaked slightly.

    Here’s the thing: they supported Trump. They don’t care about the truth. I doubt they ever did.

    I sincerely hope the DC Circuit Court, and then the Supreme Court, expeditiously decline Trump’s bogus claims of executive privilege…so the National Archives can finally turn over the White House documents that the 1/6 Committee is asking for. Whoever inside the White House* can be proven to have had anything to do with the Capitol riot should be charged, convicted, and sentenced to whatever maximum punishment is provided by law. And that most assuredly does NOT exclude Trump.

    * (If anyone. We are still, thankfully, a nation that gives the presumption of innocence to the accused. Though in a few years, between the Squad and the Trumpers, who knows?)

    Demosthenes (3fd56e)

  36. KCRWs Left Right Center has Sec State Rafsenburger on as a special guest. He has some interesting things to say for those so inclined. Not endorsing everything he said but it was interesting

    Time123 (fb9b72)

  37. @27, it’s sad how you get when ppl you see as on your “side” do something you /know/ is wrong, but you can’t bring yourself to actually criticize it.

    It’s an example of what I’m talking about when i criticize Trump supporters for lacking principles.

    Time123 (fb9b72)

  38. @37 i think suicide by cop is wrong

    better?

    JF (e1156d)

  39. Angry slogans not actually backed up by violent actions are part and parcel of demonstrations

    Correct

    and should never be condemned legally

    Also correct

    or morally by any American who wants to encourage a culture of free speech.

    That’s incorrect. Moral condemnation of speech by subsequent speech is just as essential to a culture of free speech (not to mention just as Constitutionally protected) as the earlier speech at which it’s directed.

    lurker (59504c)

  40. talk about the guy who’s not president, relentlessly, all the time

    No, JF, we are talking about the turd of a lying traitorous loser that YOU want to have as the alternative to the terrible, no good Biden. We are trying to warn you, as civilly as possible, that we will not vote for Trump no effing matter what.

    You may want to reconsider whether your hostage-taking is going to work.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  41. Pithy and on point, lurker. Plus, you managed to do it without any bolded or capitalized letters.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  42. There would be certain charm in the nutty claims made by the (im)Moral police at, for example, #20, were it not for this fact: They are intended to divide us when we need, very much, to be united — against COVID, against Islamic terrorists, against “Czar” Putin, against “Emperor” Xi, and against other enemies.

    If it were not for those efforts to divide us, we could treat those claims like we do the the claims made by members of modern flat earth groups.

    They would be foolish, but harmless, except to those who believe them. But since those claims are not harmless, we have every right to ask who is making them, and why they continue to try to divide us.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  43. @40 cuz a lying traitorous loser isn’t good enough, it has to be a demented flatulent lying traitorous loser

    fair ‘nuff

    JF (e1156d)

  44. When did Biden try to overthrow the government?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. cuz a lying traitorous loser isn’t good enough, it has to be a demented flatulent lying traitorous loser

    It doesn’t have to be a binary choice. All that needs to happen is that Trump is not part of the process. However that happens is OK by me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. FWIW — a little — British bettors now give Trump a 38 percent chance of winning the Republican nomination in 2024. The good news is that his chances have been declining in the last month; the bad news is that they are still far too high.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  47. Jim,

    What do you think of John Bolton’s theory that Trump will tease a another candidacy (garnering money and attention as long as he can), but in the end decline to run because if he lost he would be a two-time loser, and his ego just couldn’t handle that?

    norcal (b9a35f)

  48. cuz a lying traitorous loser isn’t good enough, it has to be a demented flatulent lying traitorous loser

    fair ‘nuff

    JF (e1156d) — 11/12/2021 @ 3:33 pm

    They’re both detrimental to our country, JF, just in different ways. However, and this point cannot be made strongly enough, bad leaders stem from wrong or misguided voters. This quote bears repeating:

    I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, they will shortly be out of office.

    Milton Friedman

    Some will just dismiss this nugget of wisdom with a “Free-trader Friedman is evil” mentality, not taking a moment to consider whether they may have an insufficient understanding of the counterintuitive benefits of free trade.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  49. norcal – I have been thinking about that Bolton argument, and haven’t come to a conclusion on it. But Bolton is a smart guy, and knows Trump personally — which I don’t.

    (I worry that Trump may believe that only becoming president again will keep him out of jail, bankruptcy, or both. As I have said before on this site, I impressed by the number of legal attacks he is facing, and assume that some of them — fairly or not — will succeed, just because there are so many of them.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  50. Yeah, I’m not certain about that theory either, Jim. Thank you for pointing out reasons why Trump might decide to run.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  51. @norcal, Trump broke my Caps Lock key.

    lurker (59504c)

  52. @51 And he fixed it for others!

    norcal (b9a35f)

  53. RIP, Linwood Holton. From the November 2nd NYT obituary:

    A Linwood Holton, Jr. who, as Virginia’s first Republican governor in nearly a century knocked loose the stranglehold of white supremacy in the state, cleaned up its waterways and promoted a vision for a biracial coalition across the South, died on Oct. 28 at his home in Kilmarnock, Va. He was 98.

    He was fine governor, and an admirable man. “His courageous efforts to end racial discrimination in Virginia — born out of deep religious conviction about the equality of all God’s children — made him a moral pillar for so many.”

    (Wikipedia biography)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  54. Do you mean to tell me that the mean kids gave Little Donnie Trump a noogie, took his lunch money, and hung his underwear on the flagpole, and Mike Pence just stood by and did nothing about it? Mike Pence is no friend of Donald Trump.

    And, seriously, now you know why Trump did not pardon the 1/6 rioters. They did not succeed in giving him the Presidency.

    nk (1d9030)

  55. And, seriously, now you know why Trump did not pardon the 1/6 rioters. They did not succeed in giving him the Presidency.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/12/2021 @ 6:37 pm

    And yet they still love him. My history professor warned us students about cults of personality.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  56. “were it not for this fact: They are intended to divide us when we need, very much, to be united”

    Why do we need RIGHT NOW to be united? Where did all this division and distrust come from that wasn’t there a year ago? Donald Trump was a uniter who could get the nation behind things like…

    “against COVID, against Islamic terrorists, against “Czar” Putin, against “Emperor” Xi, and against other enemies.”

    Donald Trump did in fact unite the nation against all of them and took unprecedented and relevant material action against all of them when necessary for the strategic interests of the United States of America.

    Leftists and NeverTrumpers have mostly done the opposite, either making excuses for dependence on them or wildly demanding that we oppose every single one when smarter people try to play one off against the other.

    We should have been playing Russia and the Middle East against China from day one, but Lefty and NeverTrump wreckers insisted on doing things like leaking diplomatic cables, subpoenaing everyone in the State department over routine diplomatic communications, insisting on insane, nonstrategic, and bloodthirsty rather than proportionate retaliation for foreign provocation, and in general behaved exactly like the caricature of Communist ‘wreckers’ they claim to despise.

    “If it were not for those efforts to divide us, we could treat those claims like we do the the claims made by members of modern flat earth groups.”

    I CANNOT ADDRESS THIS UNANSWERABLE ARGUMENT FOR REASONS OF NATIONAL SECURITY..OR BECAUSE SOMEONE MIGHT LAUGH AT ME…OR BECAUSE RUSSIA WILL IMMEDIATELY MIND CONTROL ME WITH SICK RAYS FROM THE CUBAN EMBASSY…

    Will liberals ever run out of shameless fibromyalgia-esque excuses to avoid engaging with reality? No, never. Should such people be allowed in power? No, never. They are selfish and evil, they use their qualifications and expertise for selfish and evil ends.

    “My history professor warned us students about cults of personality.”

    You could have gotten better life advice from your coaches.

    Kulak liquidator (ca7b89)

  57. And, seriously, now you know why Trump did not pardon the 1/6 rioters. They did not succeed in giving him the Presidency.
    nk (1d9030) — 11/12/2021 @ 6:37 pm

    I completely agree with this take on Trump’s thinking.

    felipe (484255)

  58. And yet they still love him. My history professor warned us students about cults of personality.
    norcal (b9a35f) — 11/12/2021 @ 7:45 pm

    All the way

    When somebody loves you
    It’s no good unless they love you all the way
    Happy to be near you
    When you need someone to cheer you all the way

    Taller than the tallest tree is
    That’s how it’s got to feel
    Deeper than the deep blue sea is
    That’s how deep it goes if it’s real

    felipe (484255)

  59. “against COVID, against Islamic terrorists, against “Czar” Putin, against “Emperor” Xi, and against other enemies.”

    Donald Trump did in fact unite the nation against all of them and took unprecedented and relevant material action against all of them when necessary for the strategic interests of the United States of America.

    This reminds me of what the Duke of Wellington once said: “If you believe that, you’ll believe anything.”

    To begin with, Deborah Birx:

    The Trump administration’s former coronavirus advisor, Dr. Deborah Birx, estimated that 30 to 40 percent of the 738,000 COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. could have been prevented had the White House taken necessary steps to curb the spread of the virus.

    I’ll leave the rest of the errors to anyone else who wants to tackle them.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  60. I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, they will shortly be out of office.

    They do, however, need to be aware enough to see what is politically profitable. When one man is running on rage, and the other man is the senile puppet of an ideological cabal, this idea just won’t work.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  61. And, seriously, now you know why Trump did not pardon the 1/6 rioters. They did not succeed in giving him the Presidency.

    That, and probably people telling him that it would tilt the Senate towards conviction.

    If you read the Founder’s debates on the pardon power the main sticking point was a fear that a traitorous president would pardon his followers. Many wanted to limit the pardon power to exclude treason (as had been done in several states).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  62. against COVID,

    Like the way he “interfered in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s efforts to warn Americans about Covid-19″?
    Or all the many times before that when he said it would just disappear?
    Or when he said: “Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid.’ By the way, on November 4, you won’t hear about it anymore.”

    against Islamic terrorists,

    As in his claim that the Taliban he empowered would now be fighting terrorists for us — as if they would turn against their al-Qaeda allies?

    And abandoning our Kurdish allies against ISIS in northern Syria, leaving them subject to a Turkish attack, during which many ISIS prisoners escaped. And ISIS proceeded to gain strength, while the Kurds who were betrayed by Trump turned to Russia — i.e “Czar” Putin — for support.

    against “Czar” Putin

    That one is just too funny.

    and against other enemies

    Unless, say, he has business interests in Turkey, in which case he will do a favor for his pal Erdogan by shielding a Turkish bank being prosecuted for evading sanctions against Iran.

    Bolton observed that Trump routinely put his personal interest ahead of the national interest in his foreign policy decisions — which is completely consistent with what is publicly observable about Trump. If his personal interest happened to align with the national interest, so much the better. But it’s bizarre to maintain that he put love of country first, like no one else before.

    Radegunda (baac11)

  63. felipe (484255) — 11/13/2021 @ 9:33 am

    Exactly, felipe. Love is so blindingly powerful.

    Don’t we all know at least one couple where one person just kisses the other’s ass, and is oblivious or in denial to his/her total subjugation?

    norcal (b9a35f)

  64. They do, however, need to be aware enough to see what is politically profitable.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/13/2021 @ 10:15 am

    Politicians are always trying to do what is politically profitable. There are polls, focus groups, and market research ad nauseum. Even if the politician can’t see it himself/herself, people around them will point it out.

    Should they ignore these people, they will lose the next election, as long as the proper political climate of opinion has been established.

    The bottom line is we should all work to change the hearts and minds of the electorate rather than wail about bad leaders.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  65. . I didn’t talk about the main point, which is the legislatures did not approve — five states. The legislatures did not approve all of those changes

    He didn’t talk about that because that’s technical and it has nothing to do with fraud in the conventional sense and the changes were nostly wha people would regard as making the election more fair.

    that made the difference between a very easy win for me in the states, or a loss that was very close, because the losses were all very close.”

    WEll, that’s not true. He can;t say that if these changes hadn’t happened it would have been an easy win. The election was relatively close in the closest states.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 11/12/2021 @ 8:51 am

    The statement that the “legislatures did not approve — five states” is completely delusional, this coming from a guy who was the most powerful man on earth at the time.

    It’s not delusional (except forthe idea that it makes sense for him to say it)

    It’s not delusional. He’s just not teling you what it means. And it sounds like he’s saying something else.

    The point is, the constitution says in Article II, Section 2, clause 1) states shall appoint electors “in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct” and in – actually more than 5 states, but Trump picked among those he lost – courts or the governor changed the rules.

    This has been considered constitutional, because it all derives from the state legislative process – courts are interpreting, even if wrongly, sate law.

    They mainly changed the rules in a way so as to make absentee voting easier or that was thought to make it better.)

    InN some states Republican majority legisltures refused to change the rules, even though there ws Covid, beause they thought the situation gave an advantage to Donald Trump (which it maybe did becuse Trump was telling his voters not to vote by mail)

    But out that way, Trump’s complaint doesn’t sound so reasonable, does it? Even if he’s right on the law. that only the state legislature itself can change any election rule for presidential electors.

    Sammy Finkelman (c49738)

  66. It’s not delusional (except forthe idea that it makes sense for him to say it)

    Sammy, it’s delusional because all five of those states certified the electoral votes on a single slate. The states that had so-called second slates were never ratified by the legislatures in legislative session. Trump was engaging in fantasyland commentary.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  67. Politicians are always trying to do what is politically profitable.

    Not Trump. He simply seeks worshippers.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. If you want to make Trump cease to matter, the way to do it is mount serious opposition to the Left. The Virginia election is an example.

    DN (181662)


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