Patterico's Pontifications

8/23/2021

New York City Schools: Vaccine Mandate for all Employees, No Opt-Out Option Available

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:07 am



[guest post by Dana]

Tightening up protocol, or as one official called it, “another layer of protection for our kids”:

All New York City public school teachers and other staffers will have to get vaccinated against the coronavirus, officials said Monday, ramping up pandemic protections as the nation’s largest school system prepares for classes to start next month.

The city previously said teachers, like other city employees, would have to get the shots or get tested weekly for the virus. The new policy marks the first no-option vaccination mandate for a broad group of city workers in the nation’s most populous city, though Mayor Bill de Blasio announced Friday that coaches and students in football, basketball and other “high-risk” sports would have to get inoculated before play begins.

Now, about 148,000 school employees — and contractors who work in schools — will have to get at least a first dose by Sept. 27, according to an announcement from the Democratic mayor and the city health and education departments.

I suspect this is an unpopular opinion here with a number of commenters, but if I were a parent with a kid in NYC schools, I would very much appreciate the extra layer of protection. In general, the more vaccinated adults the better!

Meanwhile, Michael Mulgrew, president of NYC’s United Federation of Teachers union, responded to the mandate as one would expect:

Our first priority is keeping our kids safe and the schools open. The city’s teachers have led the way on this issue, with the great majority already vaccinated.

While the city is asserting its legal authority to establish this mandate, there are many implementation details, incl[uding] provisions for medical exceptions, that by law must be negotiated with the UFT and other unions, and if necessary, resolved by arbitration.

De Blasio said the city would indeed negotiate with the unions but that, no matter the outcome of those negotiations, the first-dose deadline will remain in place:

De Blasio said the city would start bargaining this week with the unions over specifics, and officials hope for agreements. But the mayor said the city intends to implement the requirement Sept. 27, with or without a deal.

–Dana

21 Responses to “New York City Schools: Vaccine Mandate for all Employees, No Opt-Out Option Available”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (174549)

  2. I’m hoping for some civil disobedience on these mandates but I’m not holding my breath that we’ll see it in NYC.

    frosty (f27e97)

  3. Unconstitutional to not allow a religious exemption. Bigotry has no place in our government.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  4. there should be an exception for sincere religious belief as well as medical exceptions. But I think the city, like any employer, has the right to do this.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  5. I am surprised the left-leaning unions of New York schools would oppose this. Usually they are in lockstep with their Democrat allies.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  6. WWA(lbert)S(hanker)D?

    urbanleftbehind (6a7cbb)

  7. I’d rethink the possibility of changing my mind on unions if these teachers went on strike over this. I might even put them on my Christmas card list.

    frosty (f27e97)

  8. So you think the vaccine is beneficial but Unions are bad unless they strike to stop an employer from mandating them?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  9. Mr Snowman wrote:

    I’d rethink the possibility of changing my mind on unions if these teachers went on strike over this. I might even put them on my Christmas card list.

    The teachers are unlikely to strike over this, as, at least according to the source the much better looking Dana cited, the vast majority of them have already been vaccinated. Given the leftward bias of the teachers, they probably won’t evenh object to being told, “Ve need to see your papers.”

    Teachers make pretty decent money in New York City; they aren’t going to want to jeopardize their jobs.

    But teachers are not the only employees of the public schools. There are janitors and cafeteria workers and office assistants and all kinds of other service personnel, people who aren’t paid nearly as much as the teachers, and people who could, in this economy, find other employment quickly. Let’s face it: the schools can’t open without the service personnel.

    Naturally, I went to her cited sources:

    The city hasn’t immediately said what the penalty will be for refusing, or whether there will be exemptions. The previous vaccinate-or-test requirement had provisions for unpaid suspensions for workers who didn’t comply. . . . .

    Custodians’ union President Robert Troeller said he was concerned that the city had announced the requirement without bargaining. He said he believed about 60% of the 850 members of Local 891 of the International Union of Operating Engineers had gotten at least a first shot, but some others “are dead-set against this.”

    I’ve got to ask: is New York City going to discharge those who refuse to take the vaccines? Odds are that such suspensions or discharges would ‘disproportionately’ affect ‘people of color.’

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (3867c9)

  10. I read some days or a week or two ago there;s a problem with the NYC protocol.

    It calls for keeping unvaccinated children at least three feet apart. There’s not enough room in all schools to do so at all times. THe CDC had said to do that only when practicable.

    https://gothamist.com/news/dozens-nyc-public-school-buildings-may-not-be-able-fit-their-students-3-feet-apart-fall

    https://nypost.com/2021/08/13/principals-union-says-schools-wont-be-able-to-fully-reopen-with-doe-distancing-policy

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  11. Mr 123 wrote:

    So you think the vaccine is beneficial but Unions are bad unless they strike to stop an employer from mandating them?

    Not to speak for Mr Snowman, to whom I believe you addressed your comment, but that’s exactly the way I see things.

    I believe the vaccines are beneficial, and if there have been some negative side effects, they have been far more rare than symptomatic COVID infections. But I also believe, strongly believe, that people have the right to refuse them, and that people have a right to privacy which should prevent the government from asking about their vaccine status.

    As for unions, I do not believe that public sector unions should be allowed to exist at all. In the private sector, unions have to be at least something of partners with businesses, in that they cannot demand so much that they force the employers out of business. Sometimes the unions don’t get that part right, win unreasonable hourly wages, and find themselves getting zero hours.

    But the public sector can’t go out of business, so what we wind up with are public employee unions pushing too high demands, and government ‘leaders’ caving in to those demands, because they know they can’t go out of business, and their ‘customers’ can’t simply take their business elsewhere, because the ‘customers’ payments are made by taxes enforced by the police power of the state.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (3867c9)

  12. Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/23/2021 @ 11:53 am

    Separate from the vaccine, I think mandates are bad. I think government mandates are worse than horrible. I have a hard time coming up with acceptable things to say about people who are demanding them. There is no principled stand for COVID vaccine mandates by the government. It’s a pure authoritarian power grab enabled by fear and propaganda.

    I’m not a fan of unions either. I understand their value in theory. In practice, they’ve become corrupt. Yes, I would cheer them on for if this was a violation of their contract and they fought against it. I would cheer them on for striking in a case like this because it’s what a union should do. But don’t read too much into that. I’m only suggesting I rethink the possibility of changing my mind.

    frosty (f27e97)

  13. This isn’t a government mandate for all citizens to be vaccinated. It’s a mandate by an employer that employees be vaccinated. In this case the employer is the city government, but as we’ve established in other circumstances government employees don’t have the same rights as non-employee citizens. For instance if you work for the City your boss can tell you when to show up, but they can’t order a random person off the street to be somewhere.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  14. Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/23/2021 @ 1:09 pm

    Yes, I read the post. I think mandates are bad.

    as we’ve established in other circumstances government employees don’t have the same rights as non-employee citizens.

    I don’t think this means what you think it means.

    For instance if you work for the City your boss can tell you when to show up, but they can’t order a random person off the street to be somewhere.

    Nope, it doesn’t mean what you think it means.

    frosty (f27e97)

  15. @14, As usual, you don’t bother to actually engage with the argument that I made. I’ll state it more clearly

    It’s legal and in some cases right, to mandate behaviors from a state employee that would be a violation of rights were the state to mandate them from a common citizen.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  16. They can opt out they can quit. Ask shills pushing corporate right to work laws would protect anti vaxxers.

    asset (de66bf)

  17. Just out of curiosity, what would be the religious objection to vaccination for Covid?

    nk (1d9030)

  18. @17 I’ve got your objection right here.

    I belong to the Church of Pure Blood, which is against vaccinations of any kind. Indeed, it is our first article of faith.

    norcal (a6130b)

  19. Nk,

    Fetal tissue for one.

    When it comes to the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines, fetal cell line HEK 293 was used during the research and development phase. All HEK 293 cells are descended from tissue taken from a 1973 abortion that took place in the Netherlands.

    For the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, fetal cell lines were used in the production and manufacturing stage. To make the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, scientists infect PER.C6 fetal cell lines to grow the adenovirus vector.

    NJRob (b838ca)

  20. It’s legal and in some cases right, to mandate behaviors from a state employee that would be a violation of rights were the state to mandate them from a common citizen.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/23/2021 @ 2:15 pm

    In “some” cases? What are those cases? Because I think you are comparing apples and oranges. The example you gave doesn’t make any sense. What sort of situation are you referring to where anyone can order a random person off the street to be somewhere?

    As usual, you don’t bother to actually engage with the argument that I made

    What is the argument? I have no idea what these cases are where teachers don’t have the same basic rights as other employees. You are waving your hand in the general area of other circumstances that we’ve established.

    frosty (f27e97)

  21. NJRob (b838ca) — 8/23/2021 @ 4:53 pm

    I didn’t know that and I wish I still didn’t.

    frosty (f27e97)


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