Patterico's Pontifications

12/22/2020

Ilhan Omar Is Right! (About Not Taking the Vaccine Yet)

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Confess your unpopular opinion: she’s right.

Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) broke with other members of “the squad” on Monday by deciding to not get a coronavirus vaccine available to members of Congress, saying it was “shameful” that political leaders got the vaccine due to their “importance.”

Anand Giridharadas, publisher of the political newsletter The.Ink, tweeted on Sunday, “Serious question. Is seemingly our entire top political leadership getting the vaccine ahead of others because of their age or their importance??”

“It would makes sense if it was age, but unfortunately it’s of importance and its shameful,” responded Omar in a retweet of Giridharadas’s question. “We are not more important then frontline workers, teachers etc. who are making sacrifices everyday. Which is why I won’t take it. People who need it most, should get it. Full stop.”

All politicians, especially younger ones, should simply wait their turn. The claim that they need to “set an example” is simply their excuse to do what they always do: treat themselves better than they treat you.

The typical propaganda I see for why politicians take it first is that they are “setting an example.” To get to herd immunity, we need a certain percentage of people (the figure I have seen is around 70%) take the vaccine. So we need buy-in from the populace . . . and seeing public figures take it will give the public the confidence it needs to take it themselves.

This argument, I believe, is propaganda designed to rationalize the typical self-serving actions of Congresscritters.

This vaccine is a precious, limited resource. At some point it will be available to everyone, but right now access must be prioritized. If you are the type of person who won’t take it unless you see your favorite politico take it first, then guess what? You can wait. I don’t see why such people should be prioritized over people who are willing to take it without seeing a politician from their tribe take it first. (Read: less stupid people.)

Once it’s your favorite politician’s turn, he or she can take it, and then the political fanatics will be comforted, and they can take it then.

Frankly, it’s inexcusable privilege that politicians even get to decide whether to prioritize themselves. These people are supposed to be our servants, but they treat themselves like our betters, in every way, all the time. I’m sick of it.

I do have one caveat: I see an argument for the president-elect to get it (and he has), as he will soon be an entire branch of government in and of himself. (I would say the same about the current president except he already got COVID, and is very unlikely to get it again in the month he has left.) But rando Congresspeople and even Senators? Especially young ones? Nah.

They’re just not that important. Their lives are not more important than ours.

End the propaganda that excuses this!

107 Responses to “Ilhan Omar Is Right! (About Not Taking the Vaccine Yet)”

  1. Why has Marco Rubio, who is 49 years old and worthless to the world — a true waste of precious, precious oxygen — gotten a vaccine and I have not?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. My schoolmarm wife should get a vaccine ahead of Ms. Omar, who’s under 40 and appears healthy.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  3. Unpopular politicians, like Tulsi Gabbard, have also refused by the media has their darlings, it seems.

    “Someone did something” – Omar on 9/11

    Remember that while lauding her.

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  4. Those pols and pundits who flashed their expert card and insisted a vaccine wasn’t going to exist this year should be treated as if they were right.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  5. Fear and entitlement.

    I’m OK with fear driven desire for the vaccine. Not OK with entitlement.
    I still think COVID fear driven people need to take a deep breath [so to speak] and examine their fears. No underlying conditions and under 55?

    I’ll bet $1M dollars I can get Covid and not die, even though I’m over 60

    steveg (43b7a5)

  6. Should Hunter Biden get vaccine right away (I’ll bet he’s already been given the vaccine).
    What about Joe’s brother?

    steveg (43b7a5)

  7. Those pols and pundits who flashed their expert card and insisted a vaccine wasn’t going to exist this year should be treated as if they were right.
    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 12/22/2020 @ 8:51 am

    All the Democrats who said it would not be ready before the end of the year – or that they wouldn’t trust a vaccine produced under Trump – should step aside. While offering a public mea culpa.

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  8. I said it before Ilhan Omar.

    nk (1d9030)

  9. OT: but, CNN reporting the new COVID stimulus bill includes a section that makes illegal streaming a felony worth up to 10 years in prison. Can’t see how the prison-reform Democrats let that get in there, but hey, I’m sure Big Tech feels properly stimulated.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/22/tech/illegal-streaming-felony-covid-relief-bill/index.html

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  10. To get to herd immunity, we need a certain percentage of people (the figure I have seen is around 70%)

    Have you ever seen an explanation of where that figure comes from?

    If it means that’s approximately the point where R0 would stay permanently below 1.0, it would seem to me it would make a difference how many people associate with each other how closely on average.

    And does that factor in (but not count) that approximately 40% of the world’s population has significant immunity because they already contracted and recovered from, one of the four coronaviruses that cause common colds? (I call them the cowpox versions of Covid-19)

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  11. My schoolmarm wife should get a vaccine ahead of Ms. Omar, who’s under 40 and appears healthy.

    And Omar agrees with this. AOC, otoh, took the offered shot even though she’s 31.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. If you are the type of person who won’t take it unless you see your favorite politico take it first

    It’s not your favorite politician, it would be your least favorite politician. If you see them take it first and not get sick. Or maybe it’s a politician you half trust, and trust not to be stupid. Like maybe Andrew Cuomo.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  13. Gabbard, who is leaving Congress in January, declined as well:

    “I had planned to get the vaccine but will now stand in solidarity with our seniors by not doing so until THEY can. I urge my colleagues who are under 65 and healthy to join me,” Gabbard tweeted on Monday.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/531198-growing-number-of-lawmakers-decline-early-access-to-covid-19-vaccine

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  14. @9: Supposedly this is aimed at some unauthorized streaming services, not users of same. Nor does it seem to be aimed at torrent sites since they don’t “stream.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. I expect that every government employee in my state will get the vaccine before I do.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. The Soma’s dont get the “‘beetus” at the same propensity as the Ricans, that’s AOCs ticket.

    urbanleftbehind (6d7430)

  17. Considering that members of Congress will get all available care should they get Covid, including treatments not generally available, this is doubly disconcerting. It’s not like there have been fatalities, not even at the start when the rest of us were being told it was “just the flu” and nothing to worry about.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. Reportedly, this vaccination of Congressmembers, who are considered essential, is based on the “continuity of government operations”:

    In a letter to members of Congress and their staff, Dr. Brian Monahan said he had been notified by the White House’s National Security Council that Congress “will be provided with a specific number of COVID-19 vaccine doses to meet long-standing requirements for continuity of government operations.”

    He said the “small number of COVID-19 vaccine doses reflects a fraction of the first tranche of vaccines as it is distributed throughout the country.”

    The Continuity of Government Plan was established by President Eisenhower, who locked in a way for the government to be able to continue to run smoothly after a nuclear war. President Bush activated it after 9/11.

    AOC tweeted that this policy was the reason for her taking the vaccine.

    Dana (cc9481)

  19. So, why are outgoing members being offered the vaccine?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  20. I think it’s precious that AOC is pretending she’s just following George W Bush’s plan, and she wasn’t able to make her own decisions about the vaccine that just happened to put her way ahead of her normal place at the end of this line. For someone who talks about how unfair the insiders have it, she sure acts like she’s getting the long end of every stick.

    AOC is such a gift to the GOP.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  21. Somehow I can’t see AOC standing in any line.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. It works for her and her fans, Dustin. I had no choice…

    Dana (cc9481)

  23. Speaking of standing in line…….

    Dr. Jill Biden
    @DrBiden
    ·
    The Trump Administration’s Migrant Protection Protocols force asylum seekers to wait months in Mexico rather than in the safety of the United States. This makes them targets for extortion, sex-trafficking, and kidnapping, leaving them without a safe place to live.
    __ _

    Joe Biden
    @JoeBiden

    Donald Trump has slammed the door shut in the face of families fleeing persecution and violence. On day one, I will eliminate President Trump’s decision to limit asylum and end the MPP program. #RestoreAsylumNOW
    __ _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  24. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/22/2020 @ 9:33 am

    members of Congress will get all available care should they get Covid, including treatments not generally available,

    Now they are, but you have to know about it, because it’s not advertised, or written about much, maybe because some people at the the FDA don’t want ruin vaccine trials, and if fewer people get seriously ill with Covid you won’t be able to prove, by their standards, that the vaccine is incontrovertibly better than the placebo, and they want to approve vaccines.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-of-face-the-nation-on-december-20-2020

    …DAVID RICKS (Chairman & CEO OF Eli Lilly and Company): Good morning, Margaret.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: We wanted to talk to you about your treatment with monoclonal antibodies because we learned this week that while taxpayers have purchased about a billion dollars of it to treat patients only a fraction of it is actually being used and we’re in the throes of a crisis. Why isn’t this being prescribed more?

    DAVID RICKS: Well, it’s– it’s disappointing news that we heard as well. I can tell you that across the country we’ve shipped and distributed broadly the monoclonal antibody from Lilly. And then in our clinical studies, it reduces the risk of hos– hospitalization by about seventy percent. So, it’s very important that those eligible talk to their doctor about getting this therapy ….It’s an infusion. It takes about two hours. And we’ve seen cases where there’s been little or no action. So it’s important people know to ask their doctor if they’re a candidate for this therapy.

    …MARGARET BRENNAN: But I want to follow up on something you just said, because it’s similar to what the Trump administration has said over the course of this week, which seems to put the onus on the patient to tell their doctor what to prescribe them. That’s not usually the doctor-patient relationship. If we accept that’s the premise and it’s our job to tell the doctor to prescribe us, how soon are they supposed to ask for it?

    DAVID RICKS: Well, I’m not suggesting it’s only the patient’s responsibility. So, let me come back to that. But the drug is indicated in the first ten days after a positive PCR-test, a– a confirmation you have COVID-19. And within that ten-day period, you could receive the infusion. And it’s been shown to reduce symptoms, reduce the viral load and keep people out of the hospital. But we’re also communicating with– with hospital systems and states because this is an emergency use authorization, unlike other approvals for drugs as a manufacturer, it’s– it’s not our role to go promote this.

    Covid-19 vs the FDA – the FDA wins.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  25. eh… there is still enough consternation from the public loudly resisting to taking this vaccine, so I don’t see it quite like you. (that is, you see it as a propaganda for self-serving politicians).

    To me, this is a PSA to encourage the public to take this vaccine when offered. A vaccine that is particularly onerous, in that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine requires TWO doses, seperated by 21-30 days. Getting folks to get ONE shot is hard enough… getting them to come BACK for the 2nd dose is really, REALLY important to complete the dosage.

    So, any public figures (politicians, actors, etc…) publicly accepting the vaccine can only be a good thing as it encourages the public to comply.

    Remember all the outrage that Congress carved out its own exception to much of the ACA rules to get continue receiving better health insurance than the rest of the public?

    At least here, they’re putting their actual skin in the game (there are risks of complications) to participate in the vaccination program.

    whembly (c30c83)

  26. Ok, Patterico, I get this. But the Congress does have work to do that would be hampered by COVID worries. For example, if Biden wants emergency legislation, it’s harder to do if nobody is inoculated and Jim Jordan won’t wear a mask and threatens to shed virus everywhere.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  27. My understanding is that this debate is largely academic. Doses have already been allocated, are in the process of being distributed, and given the vaccine’s refrigeration needs doses can’t easily be reshipped; as a result, it’s not clear to me that Omar passing on the vaccine actually frees up a dose for a frontline healthcare worker or senior citizen.

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  28. Reportedly, this vaccination of Congressmembers, who are considered essential, is based on the “continuity of government operations”:

    Sure, every trail boss knows the lead steers are the most valuable cows in the herd and the strays land in the skillet during the drive. Yippie aye o kiyay!

    nk (1d9030)

  29. Furthermore, just because you have the vaccine doesn’t mean its 100% foolproof. (I have my doubts about the 95+% effectiveness). Congress has many, MANY geriatric members who could still be at risk after inoculation while working with the younger members who have not been vaccinated.

    whembly (c30c83)

  30. I think there is an argument to made that every Congressmember who has denied that seriousness of the pandemic, pushed back against states trying to enforce some Covid protocols, and either refused to wear a mask in public or joined with President Trump in mocking those who wore masks should’ve compelled to go to the front of the vaccine line. By doing that, they would be publicly acknowledging that there is indeed a highly-contagious virus that we must protect ourselves and others from getting it. It might then persuade their Trump-loyal constituents and any who are anti-vaxxers to take the step when it becomes available to them. That’s why Trump needs to receive the shot in the public square, and that’s why he likely will decline to do so.

    Dana (cc9481)

  31. Re; End f 24: I mean progress against Covid-19 vs the FDA – the FDA wins.

    The FDA wins at slowing progress. They didn’t give up one of their bureaucratic hoops, just sped through them a bit and overlapped them (which, I think, of course meant the Stage 2 trials were totally unnecessary, except maybe it vaccinated some people, but they pretended it was still needed.)

    It’s a wonder they allowed technicians to get an extra dose (sometimes two) out of the Pfizer vials of vaccine without having to go through a whole rigamarole and delay to prove it was OK to do that. Maybe they really had no choice: The FDA has no authority over the practice of medicine, just their tools.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  32. 27. Of course it doesn’t, sny more than not wasting food gives food to starving people in Asia or Africa or anywhere.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  33. Or than House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, earlier this year, turning down a White House offer to let Congress use their (actually not so good) instant Covid tests, freed up more tests for frontline hospital workers.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  34. (I would say the same about the current president except he already got COVID, and is very unlikely to get it again in the month he has left.)

    That;s the truth, and the temporary immunity from the neutralizing monoclonal antibodies is likely to last at least that long, not to mention some immunity created while his body was struggling with the virus before they dosed him with the (then-unavailable) antibodies.

    But they have this business about people who got Covid should still get vaccinated, although they do say, maybe they can wait.

    The vaccine wasn’t tested versus a placebo among that group to see if it made any difference!

    They just don’t want to have anybody bother with getting an antibody test before taking the vaccine.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  35. Dare we say it?

    AOC is a perfect example of White Privilege. Considering that blacks are more likely to die from Covid, she should have waited until all the black Congressfolk were served.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  36. @23: “The Trump Administration’s Migrant Protection Protocols force asylum seekers to wait months in Mexico rather than in the safety of the United States. This makes them targets for extortion, sex-trafficking, and kidnapping, leaving them without a safe place to live.”

    Because just like we want to prioritize pols ahead of frontline workers we should prioritize those gaming the asylum farce ahead of those that come in contact with them. Open borders, plus nut job judges — Biden supporters own this nonsense.

    Follow the science!

    Mr. Morgan said the children — and the smugglers who facilitate their journey — are responding to a decision by Judge Emmet G. Sullivan in Washington requiring UACs to be quickly processed and released amid the coronavirus pandemic.

    By contrast, most other illegal immigrants arriving at the border right now are being quickly expelled under a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention pandemic order.

    More worrying, Mr. Morgan said, is the level of coronavirus infections among the group.

    He said more than 11% of the children test positive when they reach custody of the federal Health and Human Services Department, which is the agency that houses the children under Judge Sullivan’s order.

    Mr. Morgan said those children represent a serious danger of virus spread as they’re being sent from border facilities to the HHS shelters across the country.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/dec/14/illegal-immigrant-children-soaring-border-dhs/

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  37. OT-
    Gavin Newsom has named California AG Alex Padilla to replace Kamala Harris. Not a surprise as Newsom and Padilla are old friends. Padilla also followed Harris when she became a Senator.

    Rip Murdock (ef7400)

  38. @23:

    Shorter Dr. Jill:

    Mexico is a sh!thole.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  39. Shorter Dr. Jill:

    Mexico is a sh!thole.
    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 12/22/2020 @ 10:50 am

    She can thank her husband and his old boss for making it easier for cartels to flood Mexico with guns.

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  40. Ilhan Omar is a grandstanding virtue signaler.

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  41. It’s hard to tell. I’ve rarely lived anyplace where you might actually have some kind of social or para-social relationship with a congressperson so I can’t say what kind of difference it might make in acceptance by the general public for someone to see their congressperson get the vaccine. It’s certainly possible that, especially in smaller, rural districts, someone might look at their congressperson getting the vaccine and go, well, if Bob is willing to take it, I guess it must be OK, and then be willing to get it themselves.

    Nic (896fdf)

  42. Having experienced first hand friends keeling over sick from getting stuck w/a bad batch of fast brewed, poorly handled swine flu vaccine in the mid-70s, I’m all for Congresscritters getting pricked w/the first early batches of this goop. Let them be America’s guinea pigs; sooner or later one or more of them is going to have an adverse reaction to it- either allergic or just due to a poorly handled dose. And as more of these vaccines come on line with differing handling characteristics- storage, temps., etc.,- expect confusion and errors to arise.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  43. Ilhan Omar is a grandstanding virtue signaler.

    Perhaps, or perhaps watching her father die of Covid made her face some truth for once.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. Tomorrow’s news: Pelosi orders all members to get vaccinated and, sadly, they comply.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. ‘These people are supposed to be our servants, but they treat themselves like our betters, in every way, all the time. I’m sick of it.’

    LOL Which is among the many reasons Trump was elected in the first place, and even more –74-plus million– voted for him again.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  46. Ilhan Omar is a grandstanding virtue signaler.

    Perhaps, or perhaps watching her father die of Covid made her face some truth for once.

    If that is true you would think she would take the vaccine.

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  47. Tomorrow’s news: Pelosi orders all members to get vaccinated and, sadly, they comply.

    I doubt that would happen, and if it did, most Republicans would not do it.

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  48. #43

    Both can be true.
    One is definitley true, the other is highly probable.

    She should try behaving this way more often

    steveg (43b7a5)

  49. So, any public figures (politicians, actors, etc…) publicly accepting the vaccine can only be a good thing as it encourages the public to comply.

    If only I had thought of that argument and addressed it in the post.

    Wouldn’t it be a more interesting discussion if you responded to my response to your argument, rather than simply stating it as if I had not already addressed it?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  50. I thought conservatives believe in the golden rule. Those with the gold rule. Remember what bush said in august 2001 when given the cia briefing entitled bin ladin determined to attack in america with aircraft. “Alright you have covered your ass! I will tell ashcroft (AG) not to fly commercial. Now I am off to the ranch!” Which is worse? As Omar had no responsibility was talking about muslims like her being blamed for 9-II.

    asset (946f72)

  51. @49

    So, any public figures (politicians, actors, etc…) publicly accepting the vaccine can only be a good thing as it encourages the public to comply.

    If only I had thought of that argument and addressed it in the post.

    Wouldn’t it be a more interesting discussion if you responded to my response to your argument, rather than simply stating it as if I had not already addressed it?

    Patterico (115b1f) — 12/22/2020 @ 12:20 pm

    Maybe read the rest of post, as I think I’m pretty clear of my rationale?

    Why did you choose to parse the following bolded verbiage?

    eh… there is still enough consternation from the public loudly resisting to taking this vaccine, so I don’t see it quite like you. (that is, you see it as a propaganda for self-serving politicians).

    To me, this is a PSA to encourage the public to take this vaccine when offered. A vaccine that is particularly onerous, in that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine requires TWO doses, seperated by 21-30 days. Getting folks to get ONE shot is hard enough… getting them to come BACK for the 2nd dose is really, REALLY important to complete the dosage.

    So, any public figures (politicians, actors, etc…) publicly accepting the vaccine can only be a good thing as it encourages the public to comply.

    Remember all the outrage that Congress carved out its own exception to much of the ACA rules to get continue receiving better health insurance than the rest of the public?

    At least here, they’re putting their actual skin in the game (there are risks of complications) to participate in the vaccination program.

    whembly (c30c83) — 12/22/2020 @ 9:58 am

    I’m not trying to repeat what you’ve already addressed, as I stated early on that you “see it as a propaganda for self-serving politicians”.

    whembly (c30c83)

  52. Dr Deborah Birx will retire, maybe because the New York Post ran a story about her going against her own public advice – which she didn’t believe probably, at least when you get periodically tested.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  53. Perhaps, or perhaps watching her father die of Covid made her face some truth for once.
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/22/2020 @ 11:32 am

    She had opportunities to face several truths in the past and she has declined.

    I vote virtue signaler.

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  54. eh… there is still enough consternation from the public loudly resisting to taking this vaccine, so I don’t see it quite like you. (that is, you see it as a propaganda for self-serving politicians).

    And as to that argument, I said, in the post:

    This vaccine is a precious, limited resource. At some point it will be available to everyone, but right now access must be prioritized. If you are the type of person who won’t take it unless you see your favorite politico take it first, then guess what? You can wait. I don’t see why such people should be prioritized over people who are willing to take it without seeing a politician from their tribe take it first. (Read: less stupid people.)

    Once it’s your favorite politician’s turn, he or she can take it, and then the political fanatics will be comforted, and they can take it then.

    I see no response to that point, which to restate it, is:

    Who gives a damn about the people resisting the vaccine at this point? We can worry about them once the first doses have been given to people who are *not* resisting.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  55. I initially had the same reaction as Whembly. After all, Trump’s an anti-vaxxer and his fans are often pretty silly in their paranoia about such things. But there’s no way to convince conspiracy theorists. If they see Rubio and AOC fighting to get a vaccine before the rest of us, they aren’t going to suddenly think the deep state knows something they don’t. They will simply insist it’s another layer of manipulation.

    If there is plenty of vaccine, everyone buying into it saves lives, and there’s something selfless there. But right now that simply isn’t reality. People have to exploit connections of their jobs to get ahead of those in the most need, there aren’t enough vaccines for herd immunity, so there is absolutely no reason to convince anyone to get it. The same folks who brag they never wear masks will try to get attention by refusing to get the vaccine, and we shouldn’t give them the counter-culture edgey attention they desire.

    I think the old argument that COVID is often asymptomatic and low mortaility works against this ‘continuity of government’ argument, that AOC and Rubio are saving the lives of the more ancient congress folk. These guys have access to incredible treatments. Congress would continue to perform at its remarkably poor standards if the vaccine wasn’t developed for another 100 years.

    As far my opinion matters (not much) they should just announce a year of birth. If you can prove you were born before that, you get your vaccine tomorrow. In a day, they bump it up a few years, and onward. When we hit 1955 or so we can resort to job specific rationing. There is far too much ‘do you know who I am’ going on.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  56. @54

    Who gives a damn about the people resisting the vaccine at this point? We can worry about them once the first doses have been given to people who are *not* resisting.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 12/22/2020 @ 1:06 pm

    Because the whole purpose of vaccines is to achieve herd immunity by artificial intervention at a faster time scale.

    There is also a not-insignificant number of peoples who cannot take any vaccines. (my wife cannot as the Guillain-Barré Syndrome runs in her family, which causes paralysis). Achieving herd immunity by those who CAN take it, ALSO protects those who cannot take the vaccines.

    That’s why its infuriating that we still have large contingent of skeptics and anti-vaxxers, as we only achieve herd immunity when the population reaches that threshold.

    So to answer your question: Who gives a damn about the people resisting the vaccine at this point?

    I do. We should NEVER relent our efforts to push public vaccination policies.

    whembly (c30c83)

  57. @55. Remember: ‘No miracle is coming.” – the Plagiarist-elect. 😉

    _____

    Who gives a damn about the people resisting the vaccine at this point?

    Well, if they’re in a priority gig in society, they can still be spreading the bug. That has to be a factor. More alarming is the indifference or inaction to the more infectious mutation[s] taking hold in Europe. Shutting down travel from the UK to the U.S. for two weeks or so seems essential if not common sense if only to inhibit any overwhelming surge of fast moving, highly contagious cases. Fauci doesn’t support that move. He now advises the plagiarist-elect.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  58. Who gives a damn about the people resisting the vaccine at this point? We can worry about them once the first doses have been given to people who are *not* resisting.

    As I said when the priority thing came up: If it is offered to you and you refuse, go to the back of the line.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. Well, if they’re in a priority gig in society, they can still be spreading the bug.

    No, they can stay home. They have no right to a job if they won’t take precautions. You would have them forcibly immunized?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. @59. Right to a job??? LOL Reaganomics 😉

    Forcibly immunized?? LOL Let me ount the ways… Gee, recall having to be ‘forced’ to get a miserable smallpox vaccination before being allowed to move/travel overseas to Europe and being forced into lining up w/classmates in the nurse’s office at Cedar Hill Grade School in Basking Ridge, NJ and forced to ingest a polio vaccine on a sugar cube and get a jab in the shoulder by the nurse in school for some other kind of vaccine on a gadget that looked like a corn cob holder.

    ‘Staying home’ doesn’t ‘shutdown the virus’- as the plagiarist elect vowed, Kevin.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  61. 60.Supreme Court Justices Can Get Vaccinated Now. The Rest Of The Courts Are On Their Own.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    ‘Some apes, it seems, are more equal than others.’ – George Taylor [Charlton Heston] ‘Planet Of The Apes’ 1968

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  62. I agree with Patrick on this one. People in Congress are our servants, not our overlords. The excuse they’re using to get the vaccine first is a variation on “We’re from the government, and we’re here to help you.” Also, they need to stop acting like they’re indispensable. Governors can easily find replacements for Senators and Representatives. It’s not like they have to twist anybody’s arm.

    If people need coaxing to get the vaccine, screw ’em. They can become Darwinian casualties. A lot of the crazies, both left and right, will get their comeuppance.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  63. If you join the military, you’re ‘forced’ to get a bunch of shots, vaccines and meds to protect yourself and your colleagues from various bugs. Accordingly, if you work for the government, you must be ‘forced’ to take your medicine as well. Refuse your meds, and you’re barred from your gig; your pay and bennies suspended. End of story.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  64. Norcal is definitely correct. The idea that COVID would wipe out the government is absolutely ridiculous. If AOC and Rubio caught the disease and passed away, they would be replaced easily. Same as with every other member of congress. That justification for cutting six months ahead of line (Which is actually about how much this probably was) is simply another way of asserting superior status. It’s like posting a selfie in an outfit that costs more than your constituent’s car. I guess everyone does that kind of thing to some extent, but most of us know someone who really wants this vaccine and has to wait that much longer because of all the bureacrats who are right behind Marco to get their vaccine before the peasants do.

    Even if you’re a front line responder or nurse, if you’re young and healthy it might make more sense to go after the elderly. Supposedly that’s what the science indicates and it really seems more fair to just dole it out by age.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  65. Dustin (65),

    If the issue were just the potential loss of AOC or Rubio’s services, then I agree that their priority should not be high. But I don’t think we are well served by having the legislative branch on lockdown. That is what we’d likely face if we have the dark Winter promised by our President-elect, and nobody had got the shot. Since there will be legislative activity on appointments and a coronavirus stimulus re-do, we do need a functional Congress which need not fear that it will be infected by some mask-free gop bitter ender.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  66. Yeah that’s a good point. The idea of Rand Paul and Ted Cruz spittle spewing is a fair one.

    Perhaps if we just vaccine by age enough of these guys would get it anyway.

    You think Trump’s going to veto this deal?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  67. Trump might veto it, just because he can’t sign a big beautiful $2,000 check for every American. He is that petty.

    Biden has already said he wants a redo, and that was part of the basis for my comment.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  68. @68. Might as well. Given the amount of $ in this 5,000-plus page bill to be distributed to other countries and open frigging Latino Museum, $600 is a pie in the face to every American citizen at a time when, with businesses closed and restaurants cratering, $2000 would actually be yuuuuge help – especially t the holidays. The petty buttholes in both parties in Congress who just don’t want Trump’s name on a check or who think they’ll pass more ‘aid’ after the Alamo fight in Georgia are pissing down your back and telling you it’s raining.

    Trump was elected to put Americans first. My late grandfather was a banker and his life motto was: ‘pay yourself first.’ That’s exactly why Trump was elected- to put Americans first.

    $600 not an embarrassment; it is an insult.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  69. Governors can easily find replacements for…Representatives.

    norcal (b4d7b1) — 12/22/2020 @ 4:04 pm

    I can easily find replacements for kiss mixers at the Hershey’s factory, too.

    And I have just as much power to give them a kiss mixer’s job as a governor does to appoint a representative…to wit, none.

    This is Constitution 101. And people don’t know it. No wonder some think that Trump has the power to declare martial law in order to retain the presidency — I’m sorry, in order to “ensure fair elections in states where there is suspicion of” blah blah.

    Demosthenes (d7fc81)

  70. Demosthenes, Marco Rubio is a Senator. The 17th amendment permits states to give Governor the power to appoint replacements for congressmen or senators. Most states, I think 34, have given the governor that power for Senators. Florida does not allow vacancies to be filled if they are shorter than 28 months, but the US constitution has no problem with that.

    @68. Might as well. Given the amount of $ in this 5,000-plus page bill to be distributed to other countries and open frigging Latino Museum

    Yeah it’s a bad bill. Trump had every chance to ask for $2k before, and could have used his veto power skillfully at that stage. What he’s doing now is incompetent if he’s really deal-making. As usual, his presidency is all talk, no great deal making, lots of complaining. Trump’s not a doer. I expect Biden will look great in comparison, even if he’s not that good, simply because Trump was so bad at getting things done. Making deals in congress takes a skillset Trump simply doesn’t even comprehend.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  71. Strike the part of my comment saying “for congressmen” as governors can’t appoint replacements for them. But there are hundreds of them. If a few of them did pass away, congress would be functional (aside from Appalled’s good point that they may not want to be around_.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  72. Yeah it’s a bad bill. Trump had every chance to ask for $2k before

    He asked for at least another $1200 if not more for six months. Nancy just didn’t want his name on the checks. This mess is wholly in the lap of the Pelosi, McConnell Congress, not Trump. The President proposes the Congress disposes.

    I expect Biden will look great in comparison…

    ROFLMAOPIP: “NO MIRACLE IS COMING.” 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  73. “I’m asking Congress to amend this bill and increase the ridiculously low $600 to $2,000 or $4,000 per couple,” Trump said. “I’m also asking Congress to immediately get rid of the wasteful and unnecessary items in this legislation or to send me a suitable bill.”

    I agree DCSCA, $600 is an insult. Pelosi several years ago called the tax break of $2400 (? or therabouts, I didn’t get it) as crumbs, and now has called the $600 in this bill as substantial? Trump calls for more and she says “oh so he wants to finally make a deal.” Really? Pelosi admitted she held up negotiations just to hurt Trump and to wait until Biden was elected. Does she really think we are that stupid? (wait, California maybe…. they keep electing her) Cut the pork and stop the agenda spending. Only 1/5 of this bill is actually Covid related, Trump is right on this one. Unnecessary items galore.

    I swear when the majority of our Govt. representatives got elected to a political office they lost all their brains and became idiots. Political brain suckers are the real pandemic.

    Marci (405d43)

  74. Nancy just didn’t want his name on the checks.

    Why did Trump need to insist on his name on the checks? It isn’t his money. If this is a reason Trump screwed around, it makes him look worse, not better.

    You’re wrong that this mess is wholly out of Trump’s hands. He has significant power in his veto. He used it stupidly if he was really trying to change the outcome for a time sensitive issue. he used it well if he really just wanted to jerk the country around. I think you know as well as I do that that Trump has made the whole year harder than it needed to be.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  75. I should add, Trump making a headline with something really odd usually means he has another headline he is trying to divert attention from. Pardons today.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  76. Only Senators can be replaced by gubernatorial appointment and only until the next election, when they or someone else must be elected to the remainder of the term of the vacated seat. See e.g., McSally and Loeffler.

    Representatives can only be replaced by election. A special election if the next regular one is too far off. No appointment for them.

    nk (1d9030)

  77. Demosthenes, Marco Rubio is a Senator.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 12/22/2020 @ 7:02 pm

    Good thing I wasn’t talking about senators. Good thing I specifically said the word “representative”:

    And I have just as much power to give them a kiss mixer’s job as a governor does to appoint a representative…to wit, none.

    Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 12/22/2020 @ 6:51 pm

    I mean, I even used an ellipsis to omit “Senators and” from norcal’s comment, just so there could be no mistake what I was talking about.

    Strike the part of my comment saying “for congressmen” as governors can’t appoint replacements for them.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 12/22/2020 @ 7:05 pm

    [in as dry a voice as humanly possible] Really. You don’t mean it. I never would have guessed.

    Demosthenes (d7fc81)

  78. Back at ya, Dustin.

    Demosthenes (d7fc81)

  79. Heh! People talking without listening. Me included. Personally, I’d rather talk about chocolate than politicians too. I bought five bags today. Not Hershey’s Kisses though. Hershey’s Snack Size.

    nk (1d9030)

  80. Demosthenes I have no problem striking my error (and did so). I’ve been saying dumb crap on here for ages, very often correcting my error cheerfully. Nobody is surprised that I was mistaken, least of all me, lol.

    I was truthfully annoyed at what you said about norcal missing constitution 101 after quoting him selectively. That’s on me.

    I hope you have a better one. it’s a tough time of the year and though there are people I would be very happy to anger or frustrate, it’s not my intention to do that to people like you for the little things.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  81. I’ve decided those orange chocolate ball things are good. Last year I hated them.

    For my wife’s birthday I got her choclate covered almonds, cherries, and raisins, because they looked almost the same. I kept swapping the raisins for the other two when she wasn’t looking and it was several hours before she realized I was being a troll.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  82. 84. More like the French Revolution or the British Long Parliament than the Communists.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  83. The problem with not caring if people refuse is that some communities will have more “refusers” than others, either because they are vaccine deniers or because they have had Covid. It will be harder to achieve herd immunity if we have pockets of the country where 25-50% of the population refuses to get the vaccine. We are already seeing this in some communities. They may infect not just their own communities but everywhere they travel.

    In addition, we all know that medications have risks, especially new medications. Public figures getting vaccinated are more likely to get attention and that may convince some people the vaccines are safe and a good idea. IMO seeing people like Pence and Biden get vaccinated is enough but maybe some people need more convincing.

    DRJ (aede82)

  84. 84. More like the French Revolution or the British Long Parliament than the Communists.

    Most like the Trump White House for the last four years. Snicker.

    nk (1d9030)

  85. I’d be willing to bet that there is at least one DA in the USA in, lets say St. Louis, would rather all their major crimes prosecutors do not get the vaccine because they are not essential.
    The white guilt vote is really starting to pay big dividends for communities of color.

    steveg (43b7a5)

  86. 84. 87. This what the Cornell student government did is an act of a legislature expelling members.

    The Trump White is not a legislature and doesn’t take votes.

    Lenin just dissolved the constituent assembly and based his rule on “soviets”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Constituent_Assembly

    The All Russian Constituent Assembly (Всероссийское Учредительное собрание, Vserossiyskoye Uchreditelnoye sobraniye) was a constitutional body convened in Russia after the October Revolution of 1917. It met for 13 hours, from 4 p.m. to 5 a.m., 18–19 January [O.S. 5–6 January] 1918, whereupon it was dissolved by the All-Russian Central Executive Committee,[2][3][4][5] making the Third All-Russian Congress of Soviets the new governing body of Russia.[6][7][8]

    The Long Parliament expelled members.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rump_Parliament

    The Rump Parliament was the English Parliament after Colonel Thomas Pride purged the Long Parliament, on 6 December 1648, of those members hostile to the Grandees’ intention to try King Charles I for high treason.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  87. steveg (43b7a5) — 12/23/2020 @ 8:42 am

    I’d be willing to bet that there is at least one DA in the USA in, lets say St. Louis, would rather all their major crimes prosecutors do not get the vaccine because they are not essential.

    Some people at the CDC charged with issuing recommendations as to who gets the vaccine first gave as one argument against giving higher priority to elderly (over 65 in general) over non-health care related essential workers, that people over age 65 they were more white than average.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-11/COVID-04-Dooling.pdf

    –Racial and ethnic minority groups under-represented among adults >65

    while Essential Workers (non-healthcare had a higher percentage of minorities

    Racial and ethnic minority groups disproportionately represented in many essential industries

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  88. –Racial and ethnic minority groups under-represented among adults >65

    The social engineering lurking behind statements like this is all the more reason to lie, or refuse to answer, questions about one’s race and age.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  89. 1. Vaccinate all who are willing to be vaccinated. Spend not one thin dime on convincing those that refuse.

    2. Remove all social distancing and mask requirements.

    3. Tax people annual for not getting a vaccine, plus a surtax on their medical insurance, if any. It’s legal.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. My darling bride, of 41 years, 7 months and 4 days, is a registered nurse working in a hospital, sometimes caring for COVID patients. Since the hospital at which she works is a small one, they haven’t received the vaccine yet; some of the bigger ones in the Bluegrass State have.

    Governor Andy Beshear, 43 years old, who has as much social distancing and mandatory mask protection as is available, has had the first shot of the vaccine. My wife, 61 years old and caring for COVID patients, has not.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  91. Whembly wrote:

    Furthermore, just because you have the vaccine doesn’t mean its 100% foolproof. (I have my doubts about the 95+% effectiveness). Congress has many, MANY geriatric members who could still be at risk after inoculation while working with the younger members who have not been vaccinated.

    How long between the initial shot and the booster?

    Both the Moderna and the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines require two shots: a priming dose, followed by a booster shot. The interval between Moderna doses is 28 days; for the Pfizer vaccine, it’s 21 days.

    So, if you get the initial shot on January 4th, the Monday after the holidays, you wouldn’t receive the booster shot until January 25th with the Pfizer vaccine, and February 1st for the Moderna. But there’s more:

    The Pfizer vaccine showed efficacy of 95% at preventing symptomatic Covid infection, measured starting from seven days after the second dose was administered. The vaccine appeared to be more or less equally protective across age groups and racial and ethnic groups.

    The Moderna vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing symptomatic Covid-19, measured starting from 14 days after the second dose. The vaccine’s efficacy appeared to be slightly lower in people 65 and older, but during a presentation to the Food and Drug Administration’s advisory committee the company explained that the numbers could have been influenced by the fact there were few cases in that age group in the trial. The vaccine appeared to be equally effective across different ethnic and racial groups.

    Getting the first shot doesn’t mean that you’re protected, and even after the second shot, the efficiency has been measures sometime later.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  92. Mr M wrote:

    Tomorrow’s news: Pelosi orders all members to get vaccinated and, sadly, they comply.

    Why can’t Congress work remotely? Representative Thomas Massie (R-KY 4th) forced a quorum call on a vote, but Congress could easily pass legislation to enable a remote quorum and cast their votes electronically.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  93. Our esteemed host wrote:

    Who gives a damn about the people resisting the vaccine at this point? We can worry about them once the first doses have been given to people who are *not* resisting.

    A lot of people will care. If teachers, for example, had a significant rate of not taking the virus, it affects when Our Betters will allow the schools to reopen.

    Every argument made in favor of mandatory mask orders winds up being the same argument for mandatory vaccine orders, that those who refuse the vaccine are infringing on other people’s rights, winds up increasing risks for other people.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  94. Our Windy City barrister wrote:

    Personally, I’d rather talk about chocolate than politicians too. I bought five bags today. Not Hershey’s Kisses though. Hershey’s Snack Size.

    There is a small cannister of semi-sweet Toll House chips on my ‘puter desk.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  95. OT: You can see many many different captions for this New Yorker caption contest cartoon. It shows Jack climbing the beanstalk and arriving at some business meeting in the cloud (with a speaker point to a chart that looks like a stock market graph.

    There are a lot of puns based on “cloud” “giant” “Jack” and “bean.” Even maybe “stalk” and “seed”
    Maybe even “limb” And a play on the word “fairy tale” and even “adventure” or “cow”

    https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/mlnow-newyorker/captioncontest_s3.html

    “Hey, kid! You have room on that thing? We just can’t take another Zoom meeting.” (they’re not on Zoom! This one is a bad caption.

    This is better:

    “…and Jack discovered it was not an ordinary giant that lived above the beanstalk, but a corporate gisnt.”

    Sammy Finkelman (081278)

  96. Kevin M @92:

    3. Tax people annual for not getting a vaccine, plus a surtax on their medical insurance, if any. It’s legal.

    In the famous 1905 Supreme Court smallpox decision it was called a fine – but that was Massachusetts state law. It came with exceptions, and you’d need it here too.

    So far, in New York City, out of 30,000 health care workers who were given the vaccine, one wound up in the hospital with a reaction, but they won’t say what exactly or even which vaccine. Actually they maybe won’t even say if the person was admitted to a hospital, but he or she is in stable condition they said.

    @94. The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c) — 12/23/2020 @ 3:17 pm

    Getting the first shot doesn’t mean that you’re protected, and even after the second shot, the efficiency has been measures sometime later.

    Actually many doctors highly suspect that you are substantially protected, starting about 10 days from the first shot.

    It’s just that Pfizer was aiming for the highest possible efficacy.

    And, by the way, the 21 day period is not a cutoff. It almost goes without saying or testing that 60 days or 90 days or maybe even a year later would be just as good.

    And you’d probably avoid the one day illness if you didn’t take the second shot.

    The illness comes from your immune system – the vaccine cannot replicate more than once – that is, what the cells infected by the Pfizer or the Moderna vaccines produce is not something that can further infect more cells.

    It’s just the spike protein standing alone, with no instructions. That’s true also for the Astra Zenica vaccine which uses a virus that cannot cause disease in people as a carrier.

    96.

    Every argument made in favor of mandatory mask orders winds up being the same argument for mandatory vaccine orders,

    Masks are not invasive. But then people can be allergic to them too, and the regulations actually have exceptions I think.

    The people making these recommendations got used to surgical masks in medical school, or on the job.

    Sammy Finkelman (081278)

  97. Heard yesterday (or the day bwfore) in discussions I had:

    1.”Do you think Trump still has a chance?”

    2. Trump got his claims from talk radio and the like. (paraphrase)

    3. “I don’t blame them” (Republican officials who supposedly because of fear, certified Biden as the winner)

    4. Someone from Sidney Powell’s family was killed in a car accident. (I think that was what she said. I could not find any trace of this claim on the Internet.)

    Sammy Finkelman (081278)

  98. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    Every argument made in favor of mandatory mask orders winds up being the same argument for mandatory vaccine orders,

    Masks are not invasive. But then people can be allergic to them too, and the regulations actually have exceptions I think.

    Define “invasive.”

    If it means only physically invasive, you have a point. But to me, invasive also includes government sticking its ugly nose into your personal and private life.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  99. Mask mandates seem to make Covid rates climb

    Researchers examined cases covering a 229-day period running from May 1 through Dec. 15 and compared the days in which state governments had imposed mask mandates and the days when they hadn’t.

    In states with a mandate in effect, there were 9,605,256 confirmed COVID-19 cases, which works out to an average of 27 cases per 100,000 people per day. When states didn’t have a statewide order—including states that never had mandates, coupled with the period of time masking states didn’t have the mandate in place—there were 5,781,716 cases, averaging 17 cases per 100,000 people per day.

    In other words, protective-mask mandates have a poor track record so far in fighting the coronavirus. States with mandates in place produced an average of 10 more reported infections per 100,000 people per day than states without mandates.

    It goes on to give data from different counties and locations taking into account population density, “grace period” for mask mandates to take effect etc.

    Masks may or may not be invasive, but I don’t think they work. I wear one. I follow the restrictions in our county because I’m a rule-keeper. But I don’t think they work.

    The vaccine? I don’t think the government needs to be in my health care. If they aren’t going to enforce drug laws they shouldn’t force vaccines. But as far as effectiveness….Fauci admitted lying AGAIN. First lying about masks and now admitting he lied about herd-immunity percentages because “oh you poor plebeians that can’t understand basics… I slowly moved the goal posts so you could understand it and accept it.” Give me a break. Fauci is an over-rated bureaucrat that can’t be trusted.

    Marci (405d43)

  100. To clarify why I don’t think masks work. I think they give a false sense of security. I witness people wearing masks getting much closer to people than they should. Going into crowds. Crowding elevators and such. When I have asked people about it they all reply… “well I’m wearing a mask, I’ll be okay.” The people who are not wearing a mask I have asked them (yes, I really engage people in real conversation in check-out lines etc) and they say, “well I just keep my distance. I struggle breathing in a mask (or something like that) and I figure I’m better off just keeping my distance and not getting too close.” It’s been a fascinating discussion at times.

    Marci (405d43)

  101. Every argument made in favor of mandatory mask orders winds up being the same argument for mandatory vaccine orders,

    SF:

    Masks are not invasive. But then people can be allergic to them too, and the regulations actually have exceptions I think.

    101. The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c) — 12/24/2020 @ 7:18 pm

    Define “invasive.”

    If it means only physically invasive, you have a point.

    That’s what I mean. That’s why it is not in fact true that every argument made in favor of mandatory mask orders winds up being the same argument for mandatory vaccine orders, and we don’t in fact see the proponents of mandatory masks like Joe Biden, (who wants Governors to do that) talking about mandatory vaccines.

    But to me, invasive also includes government sticking its ugly nose into your personal and private life.

    Sammy Finkelman (081278)

  102. Marci @102.

    In states with a mandate in effect, there were 9,605,256 confirmed COVID-19 cases, which works out to an average of 27 cases per 100,000 people per day. When states didn’t have a statewide order—including states that never had mandates, coupled with the period of time masking states didn’t have the mandate in place—there were 5,781,716 cases, averaging 17 cases per 100,000 people per day.

    The problem with that is that you could use similar statistics to “prove” that putting people in jail doesn’t reduce crime. With exceptions, the places that have more people in jail have more crime. You need before and after statistics, and it also takes time.

    It is absolutely true that masks might give people a false sense of security, and being vaccinated could do that also except that people are not so confident of it and the fact that , with the two currently available vaccines, you are supposed to come back for a second shot, stops that from happening too. But it is true about seat belts, or other safety measures. Now that doesn’t usually cancel out the entire benefit.

    Fauci admitted lying AGAIN. First lying about masks and now admitting he lied about herd-immunity percentages because “oh you poor plebeians that can’t understand basics

    He lied about personally vaccinating Santa Claus, too.

    Sammy Finkelman (081278)

  103. December 10:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/opinion/coronavirus-giuliani-regeneron.html

    According to the Department of Health and Human Services, as of Wednesday the entire country had about 77,000 total doses of the Regeneron cocktail and almost 260,000 doses of Eli Lilly’s monoclonal antibody treatment. That’s less than you’d need to treat everyone who’d tested positive in just the previous two days…But like so many in Trump’s orbit, Giuliani combines unusual candor with unusual deceptiveness. He’s honest about trading on his fame, but he uses his ultra-elite experience to play down the dangers of Covid for everyone. “If you get early treatment nothing’s going to happen to you,” he said on WABC, adding, “You totally eliminate the chance of dying.”

    This is wildly untrue. Even if monoclonal antibody therapies were a foolproof cure — and there’s no evidence they are — most people who listen to Giuliani won’t have access to them. They might not learn that until it’s too late.

    Actually, in many places, there’s more of it available than is being used. The shortage is not being felt. And is is pettifogging to claim that it is not foolproof cure. It’s very close to that, especially administered relatively early.

    December 20, Wall Street Journal com

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-are-covid-antibody-drugs-sitting-on-shelves-11608499832

    They are probably not paying the hospitals enough, they have logistical difficulties, and some doctors want more evidence.

    Early trials show antibody cocktails can stop Covid symptoms from progressing. They can be used with or without vaccines for patients at highest risk of severe disease.

    The supply is limited. The two companies with authorized versions, Eli Lily and Regeneron, will ship a little more than one million doses by the end of the year. Evidence suggests that for every 10 high-risk patients treated, one hospitalization might be avoided. That may sound modest, but it adds up: a million doses administered could translate into 100,000 fewer hospitalizations. Such a reprieve would help hospitals keep up with the current surge.

    It’s like hydroxyxhloroquine with zinc, only it works much better. And when they say one in ten, that’s probably including a lot of people with a low chance of needing hospitalization. Limiting the transmission to family members could also be a consideration

    in ma

    Sammy Finkelman (081278)

  104. antibody cocktails

    They’re called cocktails because they contain more than one antibody (I think in both cases two) which means it is highly unlikely any mutation of the virus could render them useless.

    And they also selected them for maximum effectiveness against the spike protein, which can’t change much in the key spots without becoming non-infectious. I did read that the new mutation (which is partly present in a strain that was found in South Africa, has 23 mutations, 8 of them on the spike protein, which is what infects cells, and I didn’t read more about it.

    My guess is it might simply be protected less by a cover and spreads faster within the body. But it’s not noticeably worse when it gets bad. They don’t say or even guess what the mutation (probably only one of them counts) does. Perhaps it simply survives better outside infected cells. Somewhere there will be a better explanation.

    Sammy Finkelman (081278)


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