Patterico's Pontifications

12/12/2020

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:52 am



[guest post by Dana]

Here are a few news items to consider. Feel free to share anything that you think would interest readers. Please make sure to provide links.

First news item

No surprise that someone is still refusing to go gently into that good night:

As I’ve pointed out a thousand times: HE CANNOT ADMIT DEFEAT:

Second news item

Not a good look, Texas GOP, not a good look at all:

…Chairman Allen West suggested that “perhaps” the best solution for “law-abiding states” would be to secede in light of the decision. “The Supreme Court, in tossing the Texas lawsuit that was joined by seventeen states and 106 US congressman, has decreed that a state can take unconstitutional actions and violate its own election law,” West said. “Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the Constitution.”

Third news item

Great news:

The Food and Drug Administration authorized the United States’ first COVID-19 vaccine for people age 16 and over late Friday, a historic moment in a pandemic that has killed over 290,000 in this nation and nearly 1.6 million people worldwide.

“The FDA’s authorization for emergency use of the first COVID-19 vaccine is a significant milestone in battling this devastating pandemic that has affected so many families in the United States and around the world,” FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn, said in a statement.

Fourth news item

Partying on at the super-spreader-petri-dish galas:

Despite top health experts warning Americans against holding indoor in-person gatherings during the holidays, President Donald Trump has continued to brush those concerns aside, defending holding White House parties this month amid daily record numbers of COVID-19 cases and deaths. At a Tuesday event touting his vaccine effort, a reporter asked, “Why are you modeling a different behavior to the American people than what your scientists tell?”

“They’re Christmas parties, and, frankly, we’ve reduced the number very substantially, as you know,” Trump responded. “I see a lot of people at the parties wearing masks, and I would say that I look out at the audience at those parties, and we have a lot of people wearing masks, and I think that’s a good thing.”

Yet videos and photos posted on social media paint a starkly different picture. They show many of those attending the gatherings not wearing masks or social distancing.

Oh, guess who decided not to make an appearance after the Supreme Court announcement??

Also Christmas party related: Common sense is still common sense:

A top coronavirus adviser to President-elect Joe Biden delivered a stern holiday message to Americans on Thursday – “no Christmas parties” – and warned they face a COVID-19 siege for weeks to come despite the latest moves toward U.S. government approval of a vaccine.

“The next three to six weeks at minimum … are our COVID weeks,” Dr. Michael Osterholm, a member of Biden’s coronavirus advisory board, told CNN. “It won’t end after that, but that is the period right now where we could have a surge upon a surge upon a surge.”

Fifth news item

It’s not just “kraken lawsuit” lawyer who’s crackin’ up:

A solid majority of Americans trust that the results of the 2020 presidential election are accurate, but only about a quarter of Republicans do, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist survey.

Sixty-one percent say they trust the results, including two-thirds of independents, but just 24% of Republican respondents say they accept the results.

Sixth news item

This behavior must be roundly and loudly condemned and stopped before someone gets injured:

Supporters of Trump in recent weeks have staked out election officials’ offices in Georgia, mounted armed protests in Arizona and left menacing telephone messages for election officials across the country, producing political turmoil unlike any other in modern U.S. history….But the threats have not been confined to places where the election was close. In Vermont — a state no Republican presidential candidate has won since 1988 — election officials said they received a voice message threatening them with “execution by firing squad.”

“No public servant should ever have to feel threatened or concerned for their safety while they are doing their work,” Vermont Secretary of State Jim Condos, a Democrat, told Reuters.

Seventh news item

In a dismal nutshell, this:

I don’t think we as a nation have ever seen someone lose so spectacularly, decisively, pathetically, over and over.

I don’t think we’ve ever seen a leader lose so methodically, so ridiculously, so masochistically.

And have we ever before seen so many officials say “hey! That losing you’re doing so hideously, so flailingly, so spasmodically — that looks like something I want to be a part of!

“This effort, based on nonsense and lies, to disenfranchise millions of Americans, sign me up!”

Eighth news item

Whispering sweet nothings in the President’s ear:

“But the president has a very long relationship with Rudy Giuliani; he’s never going to cut ties with him. He’s really not. And Giuliani has convinced the president that it’s activist judges or it’s this one or it’s that one who are thwarting them — and not that it’s at all Giuliani’s fault. Giuliani is saying to the president what the president wants to hear, which is that the president was robbed.”

Case in point:

Rudy Giuliani, an attorney for President Trump, told Fox News’ “Hannity” on Friday night that the president’s legal team isn’t done with its elections challenges after the U.S. Supreme Court denied a Texas lawsuit seeking to overturn the vote in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia and Wisconsin.

“The people of this country are entitled to a hearing on this,” Giuliani said. “They should have at least given us a hearing so that we can present our facts and not just push it off to the side so no one would ever get to hear these facts.”

Have a great weekend.

–Dana

255 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Good morning!

    Dana (cc9481)

  2. I can’t get over the GOP (Texas and national) continuing this charade only to lose credibility as a reasonable and viable party.

    Dana (cc9481)

  3. Good morning, Dana!

    Dave (1bb933)

  4. I can’t get over the GOP (Texas and national) continuing this charade only to lose credibility as a reasonable and viable party.

    The GOP has lost the popular vote in seven of the last eight presidential elections.

    And Trump – a pathetic, toxic, twisted little brat – is the face they want to present to the rest of the country going forward.

    No wonder they want to make elections a thing of the past.

    Dave (1bb933)

  5. Eighth news item

    Oh, come on! Really, Ms. Halberman? Rudi Giuliani is the Rasputin manipulating the Orange Czarina? Trump would have gone gentle into that good night if not for Giuliani whispering sweet nothings into his ear? Good grief, lady! Giuliani is the oxpecker bird tickling the rhinoceros while feeding off its wormy hide and only one of a numerous flock at that.

    nk (1d9030)

  6. Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus’ spread indoors
    ……..
    The study — adding to a growing body of evidence on airborne transmission of the virus — highlighted how South Korea’s meticulous and often invasive contact tracing regime has enabled researchers to closely track how the virus moves through populations.

    “In this outbreak, the distances between infector and infected persons were … farther than the generally accepted 2 meter [6.6-foot] droplet transmission range,” the study’s authors wrote. “The guidelines on quarantine and epidemiological investigation must be updated to reflect these factors for control and prevention of COVID-19.”

    KJ Seung, an infectious disease expert and chief of strategy and policy for the nonprofit Partners in Health’s Massachusetts COVID response, said the study was a reminder of the risk of indoor transmission as many nations hunker down for the winter. The official definition of a “close contact” — 15 minutes, within six feet — isn’t foolproof.
    ……..
    “There’s a real misconception about this in the public,” said Seung, who was not involved in the South Korea study. “They’re thinking, if I’m not a close contact, I will magically be protected.”
    ……..
    The South Korean study began with a mystery. When a high school senior in Jeonju tested positive for the virus on June 17, epidemiologists were stumped because the city hadn’t had a coronavirus case in two months. North Jeolla province, where Jeonju is located, hadn’t had one for a month. The girl hadn’t traveled out of the region in recent weeks and had largely gone from home to school and back.

    Contact tracers turned to the country’s Epidemic Investigation Support System, a digital platform introduced in South Korea amid the pandemic that allows investigators to access cellphone location information and credit card data of infected individuals in as little as 10 minutes.
    ………
    “Eating indoors at a restaurant is one of the riskiest things you can do in a pandemic,” said (Linsey Marr, a civil and environmental engineering professor at Virginia Tech who studies the transmission of viruses in the air). “Even if there is distancing, as this shows and other studies show, the distancing is not enough.”
    ………
    The ban on dining is not because the restaurant industry is responsible for X number of infections, it is to prevent potentially asymptomatic (or symptomatic) persons infecting large crowds congregating in small spaces. Given the fact that testing is voluntary, the number of infected persons who should not be out and about is undoubtedly large. This is what prompts shutdowns. I won’t be dining indoors until infection rates fall and vaccination rates increase.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  7. The Zodiac Killer sent a cipher 51 years ago. A team of amateur code-breakers just cracked it.
    For 51 years, one of the Zodiac Killer’s puzzling codes he sent in letters to newspapers in the late 1960s and early 1970s has confounded the cryptography community, law enforcement and curious citizens.

    But the Bay Area killer’s 340-character cipher mailed to the San Francisco Chronicle has been cracked by an international team of code-breakers. The breakthrough, first reported by the Chronicle, was verified by the FBI.

    “I felt vindicated,” said American code-breaker David Oranchak, who told The Washington Post that he first saw the cipher 14 years ago and thought he could decipher it quickly.

    Along with Australian mathematician Sam Blake and Belgian programmer Jarl Van Eycke, the trio figures the grid of 63 unique, mysterious symbols, written by the killer and mailed to the Chronicle with a victim’s bloodstained shirt, roughly translates to:
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  8. Every thirty seconds, another American dies of COVID-19.

    We’ll be experiencing the equivalent death toll of a 9/11 every day for the foreseeable future.

    The equivalent of another Vietnam war between now and New Year’s Eve.

    Dave (1bb933)

  9. Trump admin offered $700M to 9/11 victims to save Sudan deal

    In a last-minute pitch to save President Donald Trump’s deal with Sudan, the Trump administration offered to pay victims of the Sept. 11 attacks $700 million of U.S. funds to drop their pursuit of claims against the African country, according to two sources familiar with the negotiations.

    In response, lawyers for the 9/11 claimants said they wanted as much as $4 billion, a steep price the administration and Senate Republicans rejected, sources said.

    The negotiations, which have not been previously reported and continued late Friday, show the lengths to which the Trump administration is willing to go to save its deal with Sudan to normalize ties with the U.S. and Israel and compensate another group of American terror victims — those killed and injured in the 1998 embassy bombings.
    ……….
    The U.S. and Sudan signed a deal in November to settle a judgment against Sudan for the 1998 attacks, which totaled $10.2 billion. In exchange for Sudan agreeing to pay $335 million, the U.S. removed its state sponsor of terrorism designation on the country — the strictest U.S. sanctions that block assistance from the World Bank and International Monetary Fund — and committed to working with Congress to pass legislation to restore Sudan’s “legal peace,” meaning it can’t be sued as a sovereign state.
    ………
    But Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Sen. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., have blocked that legislation for months, saying 9/11 claimants’ litigation must be protected. Last week, the two led congressional Democrats in proposing two resolutions to the administration, and the multiple sides have scrambled to achieve one this week.
    ………
    The Trump offer this week followed weeks of negotiations over changing U.S. law to allow 9/11 claims to continue in other ways. But lawyers for a group of victims have rejected that because it would weaken their case, particularly now the state sponsor of terrorism designation will be lifted. That step, initiated in October, will be finalized Monday, according to one source familiar with the matter.
    ……..
    Last week, Schumer and Menendez offered two changes to U.S. law that would strengthen 9/11 claims under either the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, or FSIA, or the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, or JASTA.
    ……..
    But the Trump administration rejected those because they would violate the Sudan deal. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo spoke again to Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, Sudan’s top military chief, Friday to see if the government would accept changes to JASTA, according to a source, but they have rejected FSIA tweaks because they’d still be considered a terrorist state.
    ……..
    The administration has also opposed Menendez and Schumer’s proposal because it would strengthen 9/11 claims against Saudi Arabia, a key partner on Trump foreign policy that the administration is still lobbying to recognize Israel in some way, joining the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan and Morocco.

    That effort, known as the Abraham Accords, has been driving Trump foreign policy, with Trump trading Israeli recognition for his unprecedented sale of armed drones and F-35 elite fighter jets to the United Arab Emirates and, as of Thursday, U.S. recognition of Morocco’s control of the disputed territory Western Sahara.
    ………
    So the Trump Administration is negotiating with American victims of terrorism on behalf of the nations that committed the terrorism by buying off the victims. Birds of a feather…… Trump just sees this as another “art of the deal.”

    (Discussing negotiating with the SS commander of a Tiger tank guarding a bank vault full of gold)
    Crapgame (Don Rickles): Try making a DEAL!

    Big Joe (Telly Savalas): What kind of DEAL?

    Crapgame: A DEAL, deal! Maybe he’s a Republican. You know, “Business is business.”

    -Kelly’s Heroes 1970

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  10. If you want to see the purest essence of Bizarro TrumpWorld, then this thread of Dreher’s observations of today’s Jericho March can give you a glimpse. The opening comment…

    There’s some large guy onstage at the DC rally named “Shofar So Great” (https://shofarsogreat.com/about-us/) claiming to be an Orthodox Jew who says his rabbi in Israel gave him permission to break Shabbat to support Donald Trump and blow the shofar at the Jericho March.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  11. I think it’s spelled “chauffeur”, Paul.

    nk (1d9030)

  12. Paul,

    My God but that was a disturbing read. These people do not represent Christianity, nor are they ambassadors of the faith. These people are part of a deranged cult that is making a mockery of God, Christ and the faith itself as they push their lunatic beliefs.

    Oh, now I remember Metaxas: He was the guy who reached out and punched the protesting cyclist in the side of the face during the D.C. protests. IIRC, Metaxas was leaving some Trump event. I’m too lazy to google it…

    Dana (cc9481)

  13. I’m always loathe to link to left-wing websites, especially partisan hacks like David Corn, but I am more loathe about Trump’s Election Fraud Hoax and the lack of real evidence behind the accusations of rigging and significant fraud. Corn reported (and I hope accurately) on the cross-examination of this Braynard character, a Republican spreadsheet warrior who chose to be a hired gun for the Kraken and such.

    At first, the hearing went smoothly for Braynard, who has the professional presentation of a data specialist. But then came state Rep. Bee Nguyen, a Democrat from Atlanta. It turns out she had been doing her own research. Citing an exhibit filed by Braynard that listed people who had voted but who supposedly had registered in Georgia and another state, she pointed out that several names were duplicated on the list. Then she said that she had looked up the first 10 names on the list and had found eight of these people listed in Georgia property records as residents. She reached one of them on the phone, she said, and he confirmed that he lived and voted only in Georgia. Nguyen said she verified this person’s voting record.

    Taking another name from this list—a woman allegedly registered in Georgia and Arizona—she confirmed this person’s residence and voting record in Georgia, and she found another voter with the exact same name listed in the Arizona voter rolls, born in the same year but with a different birth date. She also identified another person on the list in a similar situation: same name, different birth dates.

    In rapid-fire fashion, Nguyen continued on. She turned to the Braynard list of voters who he said had registered with postal boxes “disguised” as residences. She recognized one of the addresses as being around the corner from her home—a condo complex with a FedEx center on the first floor. (Some apartment buildings use a postal box-like system for their addresses.) A friend in the building sent her a list of residents of the complex. They were all on Braynard’s list, she said. And the same was true, she had discovered, for another condo complex with a FedEx center. On her own, she said, she had discovered that 128 names on this list—more than 10 percent of Braynard’s total number—were errors.

    And Nguyen wasn’t done. One of the names on the list of people who had allegedly voted in two states—a crime—belonged to a neighbor of another state representative, Teri Anulewicz, a Cobb County Democrat. This person had supposedly voted in Georgia and Maryland. Anulewicz contacted her neighbor, and, according to Nguyen, he told Anulewicz that he had never voted in Maryland but has a father with the exact same name. Nguyen looked at another name on this particular list—a person who had allegedly voted in Georgia and Virginia—and she found two people in those states with that name but with different birth dates. And one of her own constituents, she said, appeared on this list. Nguyen drove to her house, she recounted, and the woman told her that she and her husband had lived in Georgia their entire lives and had never been to the other state.

    Nguyen concluded this dissection of Braynard with a serious charge: “Many of the names listed on your exhibit are erroneous. You have alleged that these voters have committed a felony.” She criticized Braynard for having made no effort to contact some of them and verify the information. And referring to one couple she spoke to, Nguyen added, “They have no idea they are being accused of committing a crime in a public filing.”
    […]
    A week earlier, in a Wisconsin case that was partly based on Braynard’s research, the state supreme court had shot down that challenge to the election, with one conservative justice writing that the petitioners had relied “almost entirely on the unsworn expert report of a former campaign employee that offers statistical estimates based on call center samples and social media research.” That is, his work didn’t fly legally. And when cross-examined by Nguyen, who had engaged in her own basic fact-checking, Braynard’s research and his standing as an expert appeared to crumble.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  14. “I AM NOT AFRAID OF THE GAS CHAMBER

    BECAUSE IT WILL SEND ME TO PARADICE ALL THE SOONER

    BECAUSE I NOW HAVE ENOUGH SLAVES TO WORK FOR ME”
    _

    The Zodiac Killer was a Muslim?

    Also – hope the American news media cracks the Hunter Biden story sooner than in 51 years…..
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  15. Giuliani is saying to the president what the president wants to hear, which is that the president was robbed.”

    In the end, Trump will blame it all on “Wormtongue” and his followers will be astonished at how badly their leader was mislead. “If only Trump knew!”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. I can’t get over the GOP (Texas and national) continuing this charade only to lose credibility as a reasonable and viable party.

    Again, someone should start a new party in their state (CA would be a good choice, since the GOP was already on the ropes). Something focusing on renewed federalism, limited government and individual rights. Maybe call it “Federalist” to get the media’s attention. Make it clear that disaffected former Republicans are welcome.

    Maybe the GOP will survive, but it really needs a slap across the face, and this would be it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  17. So the Trump Administration is negotiating with American victims of terrorism on behalf of the nations that committed the terrorism by buying off the victims. Birds of a feather…… Trump just sees this as another “art of the deal.”

    Two thoughts:

    Just how much money do the 9/11 families expect to see from Sudan?

    Once Biden is in office, this will all work out somehow.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. Stephen King, via daughter of Rod…

    Trump increasingly reminds me of Anthony Freemont, the monster child in a Twilight Zone episode called “It’s a Good Life.” Republicans kowtow to him, because he might throw a tantrum and send them away into the cornfield if they don’t.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  19. GOP Rep. Who Backed TX Lawsuit Goes Off the Rails When Chris Cuomo Confronts Him on Voter Fraud Claims: ‘I Don’t Have Proof That Men Landed on the Moon’
    Only one House Republican who backed the failed Texas lawsuit in the Supreme Court would agree to appear on Cuomo Prime Time, and after his Friday night performance, it’s unlikely any others will soon.
    …..
    “The idea of accepting the Supreme Court’s decision, do you?” Cuomo asked first thing.

    “Well, certainly, this is a setback for the case that was being made by Texas, and you know, it really boils down to there’s a hot of things being said about it,” (Rep. Ray) LaMalfa replied, clearly not accepting it, before repeating a common Trump grievance about mail-in ballots.

    …….. “Do you now accept that [Joe] Biden is president-elect?”
    ………
    “Come January 20th, if he’s got his hand on the Bible and doing that then I guess we’ll accept it at that point,” LaMalfa said, pushing the goalposts of concession back to the last possible moment.
    ……..
    You got any proof that anything was done fraudulent in any election?” Cuomo pressed.

    “You know I don’t have proof that men landed on the moon, because I was not there.”

    “Really?!” Cuomo shot back, clearly confounded by this tinfoil hat-curious non sequitur. Then, after a beat, he followed up: “Do you believe the world is round?”

    “Well, I think we have proven that.”

    “Have you been all the way around it?” Cuomo said, throwing the Congressman’s specious logic back at him.
    …….
    Comedy gold!

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  20. Once Biden is in office, this will all work out somehow.

    I hope not.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  21. Again, someone should start a new party in their state (CA would be a good choice, since the GOP was already on the ropes). Something focusing on renewed federalism, limited government and individual rights. Maybe call it “Federalist” to get the media’s attention. Make it clear that disaffected former Republicans are welcome.

    But seriously, California???

    Dana (cc9481)

  22. Usually, I would think nothing up this. But very little is normal in Trumpworld now, and this seems in line with Trump’s hope that someone will do a coup for him:

    https://nypost.com/2020/12/12/proud-boys-leader-visits-white-house-ahead-of-dc-rally/amp/

    Appalled (1a17de)

  23. Twenty years ago today, Al Gore still hadn’t conceded to Bush.

    Against all odds, we survived.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  24. Republicans kowtow to him, because he might throw a tantrum and send them away into the cornfield if they don’t.

    That’s pretty accurate, though I think they fear the Trump cultists even more.

    Trumpers always deny being cult-followers, but a good many of them are basically building a new religion in which truth and righteousness revolve around Trump, as the Dreher thread illustrates. They say it’s about being faithful to God and country, but they’ve made Trump into the new messiah who alone can defeat the forces of evil — the latter defined as anyone and anything that goes against Trump.

    It wasn’t long ago that conservatives were (fairly) ridiculing the messianic imagery attached to Obama, but the Trump cult goes far beyond it with the fantasy about being an army of God against the legions of Satan. And they actually believe it.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  25. But seriously, California???

    It’s a time for choosing, Dana.

    🙂

    Dave (1bb933)

  26. It wasn’t long ago that conservatives were (fairly) ridiculing the messianic imagery attached to Obama, but the Trump cult goes far beyond it with the fantasy about being an army of God against the legions of Satan. And they actually believe it.

    It makes the Obama “halo” photo outrage seem, well, quaint.

    Dana (cc9481)

  27. Twenty years ago today, Al Gore still hadn’t conceded to Bush.

    Twenty years ago tomorrow, Al Gore conceded, called for national unity, and pledged to support the president-elect.

    How much would you wager on Trump doing the same tomorrow?

    Radegunda (20775b)

  28. Twenty years ago tomorrow, Al Gore conceded, called for national unity, and pledged to support the president-elect.

    AND sitting as President of the Senate, in Joint Session of Congress, certified the votes that made Bush 43 President, AND shot down Maxine Walters’ attempt to nullify Florida’s Electors.

    Is all Trump World built on lies, or does some leak from an opening into an alternate universe? Kellyanne?

    nk (1d9030)

  29. And to crossover (kind of) with the Texas thread, it is a fact that “makings” go dry when it gets colder.

    nk (1d9030)

  30. But seriously, California???

    Yes. This would not be the GOP, but a party favoring stronger states (a plus), personal choices, economic and social (a plus) and smaller government. This last might not be a plus, but I dunno.

    The two things (before Trump) that have made the GOP unwelcome in the coastal part of CA have been xenophobia (more that being against illegal immigrants) and strident opposition to abortion. Lose those, at a time when the Democrat party is screwing up by the numbers, and it might attract interest.

    In any event it would shake up the GOP, which is the main point.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  31. Love that reference, nk.

    Dana (cc9481)

  32. My favorite line from Jonah’s latest:
    “Since I wrote my column for today, which was hardly subtle in its disgust with the ongoing effort to steal the election with a lawsuit that reads like it was written by the five-time “Taste Tester of the Year” at a lead paint factory…”
    And this:

    In Game of Thrones, the Kraken is the symbol of House Greyjoy. Ramsay Bolton points to the Kraken on Theon Greyjoy’s armor and says “Kraken! Mmmm. Strong—as long as they’re in the sea. When you take them out of the water, no bones. They collapse under their own proud weight and slump into a heap of nothing.”

    That’s what Sidney Powell’s Kraken is. In the ocean of conspiratorial groupthink she and her fans swim in, the Kraken is strong and powerful. Take it out of that sea and put it before a judge, it collapses under its own weight into a heap of nothing.

    My own line is that what kills the Kraken is legal scrutiny.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  33. It seems to me that a center-right insurgency in one state is doomed to fail, because the national Republican party has limitless resources available.

    Further, the barriers to entry in California are higher than anywhere else in the country, due to the number of markets and cost of living/doing business.

    And obviously the Democrats have a tighter lock on California than nearly any other state.

    I think you’d want to start in a smaller and more competitive state. Smaller makes it cheaper to operate, and competitive means leverage.

    The Trump Party gameplan relies on razor-thin victories in battleground states while padding the score with the structural anomaly that gives small, reliably red states more electoral votes than their population warrants. That’s the only way to deliver an electoral majority despite receiving many fewer votes nationwide.

    So I think you’d want to start the movement in places like AZ or NC or WI where shaving a couple points from the Trump vote share probably puts the state out of reach.

    Dave (1bb933)

  34. the national Republican party has limitless resources available.

    As long as they push the Trumpist line, it won’t matter.

    Further, the barriers to entry in California are higher than anywhere else in the country

    What barriers? Starting a new party can be done for almost no money. Sure, the airwaves are expensive, but that’s not where the voters are. Free media exposure, feeding on the knee-jerk dislike of the GOP, will do wonders. People are becoming increasingly unhappy with CA government, but not so unhappy as to reach out to the Trumpists.

    The Trump Party gameplan relies on razor-thin victories in battleground states

    Not planning on presidential contests (which are difficult anyway, the primaries being party-specific). That lunacy is how every third party failed (that and the rush to the fringe). Selected House seats that have gone 60-40 Dem would be a good target, hoping to draw support for both sides.

    The immediate aim is to draw the anti-Trump GOP in jungle primary contests where there is more than one Trumpist candidate, along with some in the center. Maybe CA-50.

    ———
    Sadly, I no longer live in CA, but hope for the day my homeland is liberated.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  35. I’m always loathe to link to left-wing websites, especially partisan hacks like David Corn

    David Corn hides behind his stories to prevent #MeToo from taking him down. Meanwhile, he peddles disinformation and half-truths, like when he stated as fact that Cohen had indeed traveled to Prague. Only he didn’t.

    Don’t believe a word that lying misogynist says.

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  36. Now he wants to fire AG Barr. Is that because he isn’t loyal enough… or crazy enough? We know that The Donald likes his sycophants to be on the loopy side.

    Can you imagine what it’s like for Barr to put up with all of these nuts? Not that I feel sorry for him.

    noel (9fead1)

  37. I feel like Barr is getting a bad rap on all sides here…

    I can’t find the quote, either from a Congressional hearing or an interview but it basically went like this:

    If you want to take out politics of the justice department, then stop bringing politics into it.

    If anyone can find that quote, I’d appreciate it.

    In light of that, I cannot fault Barr’s reaction to the Hunter Biden story and I support any efforts to NOT create a special counsel on an incoming administration.

    whembly (c30c83)

  38. @25. ROFLMAOPIP

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  39. ‘Sadly, I no longer live in CA, but hope for the day my homeland is liberated.’

    “No miracle is coming.” – Plagiarist-elect Joe Biden

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  40. Once Biden is in office, this will all work out somehow.

    ‘No miracle is coming,’ Kevin.

    The Plagirist-elect’s two go-to phrases over half a century of swamp-bottom feeding: ‘I promise’ and ‘I apologize.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  41. RIP Charley Pride (86).

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  42. Refusing to go along with Trump’s dirty, illegal scheming has its price. He attacks these people mercilessly, of course, especially if they’re Republicans. This month, we add more names to that long list.

    Like… Georgia’s SOS Raffensperger and Gov. Kemp, Arizona Gov. Ducey and Bill Barr.

    Remember this one? “So often, the president would say here’s what I want to do and here’s how I want to do it and I would have to say to him, ‘Mr. President I understand what you want to do but you can’t do it that way. It violates the law,’” Tillerson said.

    noel (9fead1)

  43. Donald Trump said former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson was “dumb as a rock” after Tillerson claimed that the president encouraged him to break the law. Tillerson called Trump a “moron”.

    Trump hired him so I don’t know how he wins that one.

    noel (9fead1)

  44. The MAGA chant in DC today is Destroy the GOP!
    I think MAGA-heads would be happy to make Trump a dictator for life, and they’d say it was the only way to save America.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  45. @44 — Trumpers are always telling us we shouldn’t believe polls.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  46. More at today’s maskless rally: “Destroy the GOP!!”
    The person leading the chant was Nick Fuentes, the Holocaust denier who palled around with Malkin and was re-tweeted by Trump.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  47. Heh. So you doubt Dana’s fifth news item then or is that different? 😁

    Towering Barbarian (7ce0bf)

  48. The MAGA chant in DC today is Destroy the GOP!

    An argument can be made that they have already done that. It’s now the Trump Party.

    Dana (cc9481)

  49. Governor DeSantis: “About that forced entrance into Ms. Jones’ house with guns drawn and our taking her phone and laptop, it was not a raid!
    Ms. Jones accused DeSantis of covering up CV19 numbers, and now it’s clear that DeSantis has covered up reports from the Coronavirus Task Force. His life for Donald.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  50. “I thought the antichrist would be smarter and better looking.”

    My favorite of 2020. Author unknown (at least to me).

    noel (9fead1)

  51. Another baseless lawsuit tossed. Trump-appointed Wisconsin judge says no to Trump as well:

    “In his reply brief, plaintiff ‘asks that the Rule of Law be followed,'” Judge Brett Ludwig wrote. “It has been,” he concluded.

    Dana (cc9481)

  52. forced entrance into Ms. Jones’ house with guns drawn

    Did the definition of “raid” change when we weren’t looking?

    Dana (cc9481)

  53. Heh. So you doubt Dana’s fifth news item then or is that different?

    My point is that Trumpers always say the pre-election polling that showed Biden very likely to win had no value whatsoever and had to be even more wrong than the actual vote showed it to be. So if any Trumpers cite a post-election poll in an effort to support their “rigged election” claims, they’re not exactly being consistent.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  54. @55,
    So let’s not pause and consider one of the reasons *why* Republicans considered such polls untrustworthy? The cancel culture of liberals is a thing so that letting it be known that you have an opinion that doesn’t reflect the leftist whim of the moment is always risky business. Much safer to tell Mr. Pollster what Democrats want to hear when saying anything else might put your job or your family into danger. Particularly when you yourself are a Democrat since liberals seem particularly viscous towards their own in such circumstances. Only the very brave or the very trusting would do otherwise and most people are neither. That circumstance makes certainly makes the fact that 30% of Democrats admit to thinking that this presidential election operated at the same level as the 1960 election in terms of electoral cheating quite extraordinary indeed. If 30% of Democrats *admit* to believing this you can be certain that many more then that do so but also believe that it would be indiscreet to admit as much. 🙂

    Towering Barbarian (7ce0bf)

  55. Great news:

    The Food and Drug Administration authorized the United States’ first COVID-19 vaccine for people age 16 and over late Friday, a historic moment in a pandemic that has killed over 290,000 in this nation and nearly 1.6 million people worldwide.

    This is about as much of a surprise as a majority of the Electoral College voting for Joe Biden on Monday.

    It’s all been far too slow. Why did they wait three weeks? Why another week for Moderna? Why so slow on the neutralizing monoclonal antibodies made by Regeneron and Eli Lilly and why was there not enough of a push for production by the Trump administration? And why no attention paid to ivermectin?

    And today the CDC came up with some questionable recommendations:

    1> Pregnant women need not worry about the vaccine and they if they are offered it in as art of a group(like medical workers), but if they worry they should consult their doctor. (it’s probable there might be a point in pregnancy when it might be bad idea and could cause miscarriages or birth defects. The vaccine was never tested in pregnant women.)

    https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/13/flu-vaccine-pregnancy-miscarriage

    Later another study denied it:

    https://www.statnews.com/2019/02/27/new-study-finds-no-link-between-flu-shots-and-miscarriages-allaying-fears/

    I think it might depend on the stage of pregnancy and on whether or not it is a booster shot (and revs up the immune system too much – and the coronavirus vaccine is designed to rev up the immune system.)

    Various vaccines are nor recommended for pregnant women:

    https://www.texaschildrens.org/departments/center-vaccine-awareness-and-research-cvar/vaccines-age/vaccines-pregnant-women/vaccines

    Of course the disease is worse than the vaccine.

    2> People who were infected and recovered should take the vaccine, but they can probably wait three months after recovery.

    This seems premised on the idea that they can’t be sure about natural immunity but they can be sure about the vaccine. (?!)

    3> The second dose should be taken 17 to 22 days after the first one, but if they miss the 21 day deadline they should then take it as soon as possible (do we know this makes a difference? I mean the amount of waiting. Sure the second dose is a booster but does it need to be taken so close to the first one to be effective?)

    They just don’t want to be conradicted.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  56. Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus’ spread indoors

    They didn’t want to say that because it would be too hard for people to take precautions so they attributed all such infections to the virus settling on surfaces even though there was strong evidence it could probably not be transmitted easily that way because the virus quickly degrades and there’s not enough of it and it would require several consecutive touchings to get into the body. One error required the other error be be made.

    They did that some years ago for the flu, and carried it over to coronavirus.

    Their “truths” are always convenient (for them)
    ……..

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  57. @44-
    It’s Rasmussen, Trump’s favorite pollster.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  58. It’s too bad you’re not in charge, Sammy, since you’ve got all the answers.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  59. Here’s another highlight from today’s sour grapes fest rally…

    Conspiracy theorist and internet personality Alex Jones told a crowd of pro-Trump protesters in Washington, D.C. on Saturday that President-elect Joe Biden “will be removed one way or another,” while addressing the protesters from a stage.

    Move along, no sedition here.

    Paul Montagu (094af7)

  60. Attorney General Bill Barr was thinking of quitting before the end of Trump’s term (at the end of the year) because he went through a presidential transition before (in 1992-3) and he didn’t like it but Trump persuaded him not to.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/us/politics/barr-not-resigning.html

    Mr. Barr had been weighing whether to leave this month. But President Trump — already angry with the attorney general’s refusal to help overturn the election — was said to be irritated with Mr. Barr’s contemplation of an early departure, according to the person.

    Maybe Trump doesn’t want him to go without giving him the opportunity to fire him (or maybe just badger him on Twitter)

    Why Barr wanted to quit:

    In 1992, at the end of the Bush administration, Mr. Barr learned firsthand about the complications at the end of a presidency. Days before the 1992 election, the independent counsel investigating the Iran-contra affair, Lawrence Walsh, made a court filing that included damaging information about Mr. Bush, who would claim for years that the disclosure helped Bill Clinton defeat him. During that transition, Mr. Barr felt tempted to fire Mr. Walsh and, under pressure from Senate Republicans, had the head of the Justice Department’s criminal division, Mr. Mueller, determine whether to investigate Mr. Walsh.

    That December, Mr. Barr advised Mr. Bush to pardon several Bush and Reagan administration officials who had been prosecuted by Mr. Walsh. On Christmas Eve, Mr. Bush pardoned six people, leading to accusations that Mr. Bush was using one of his most sacred powers to protect his closest allies.

    The claim about Bush was a lie, because the Casper Weinberger memo was a lie. For one thing. President Reagan did not approve the sale of arms to Iran on January 7, 1986, like the Weinberger memo says, but rejected it and only approved it on January 17, after the details were revised so possibly mainly as to keep the Department of Defense out of it. Bush was not present at the second meeting. And later when GHWB said he was “out of the loop” he didn’t mean ignorant but out of the chain of command. The memo also squarely attributed the idea to Israel.

    I read somewhere that Prince Bandar persuaded Casper Weinberger to donate his (provably false!) contemporaneous notes to the Library of Congress but was not able to find it again.

    Iran contra special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh indicted Casper Weinberger for lying in his testimony when it was his “contemporaneouz notes” that were the lie. You could check it out.

    There really should be no question that Lawrence Walsh made his court filing to influence the 1992 election, (Probably in co-ordination with the Clinton campaign, although I have no that directly shows that or claims that but what else can explain it?)

    Attorney General William Barr wanted to fire Lawrence Walsh for his gratuitous court filing.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  61. Federal Judge in Wisconsin Deals Trump Another Court Defeat
    …….
    In a strongly worded decision, Judge Brett H. Ludwig, a Trump appointee who took his post only three months ago, shot down one of the president’s last remaining attempts to alter the results of a statewide race. …….
    …….
    “This court has allowed the plaintiff the chance to make his case,” Judge Ludwig wrote, “and he has lost on the merits.”
    ……..
    Unlike other legal challenges by the president, the suit in Milwaukee did not allege that voting fraud took place in Wisconsin. Rather, it accused a group of state and local election officials of violating state law by expanding the manner in which absentee ballots were received and processed this year in an unusual election that took place during a pandemic.

    But breaking with his colleagues on the bench, Judge Ludwig found that Mr. Trump did in fact have standing to contest how Wisconsin officials conducted their election. He also ruled that even though Wisconsin had certified its vote last month, the lawsuit was not moot because the final determination of the presidential race will not take place until Jan. 6, when Congress meets to count votes from the Electoral College.

    In his ruling, Judge Ludwig wrote that Wisconsin’s election officials had followed state law, which clearly says that the state’s electors should be chosen by a popular vote. Even though they instituted changes like allowing drop boxes for absentee ballots and loosening restrictions for certifying ballots, the moves were not illegal, Judge Ludwig wrote, and officials used acceptable ways to implement the law.
    ………
    The ruling concluded: “In his reply brief, plaintiff ‘asks that the Rule of Law be followed.’ It has been.”
    >>>>>>>>

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  62. The MAGA chant in DC today is Destroy the GOP!

    I said this was their plan back in late 2015.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. Remember always, these are NOT Trump’s judges. They’re the Federalist Society’s judges.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. https://thefederalist.com/2020/12/11/googles-youtube-shuts-down-dilbert-creator-scott-adams/

    Youtube censoring political speech. Nothing to see here.

    Some animals are more equal than others.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  65. Youtube censoring political speech. Nothing to see here.

    As a private company, Google can do what it wants. Trump’s support for Section 230 repeal wasn’t serious, or he wouldn’t have waited until the last minute of his administration.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  66. Even QAnon Is Abandoning Parler, the Far-Right’s Answer to Twitter
    ………
    Dan Bongino (who is also an investor in the company), conservative radio host Mark Levin, and Fox News host Sean Hannity — urged their followers to abandon those sites and open an account on Parler. And millions of people followed them.

    The company announced on Nov. 12 that its membership had almost doubled since the election a week earlier, from 4.5 million to 8 million.

    But once people got there, they found that it wasn’t really much fun.

    The platform bills itself as “a non-biased, free speech social media focused on protecting user’s rights,” but in reality, it has become an echo chamber of right-wing ideologies and extremist views. Many conservatives have grown tired of Parler because there’s no one with an opposing point of view to argue with.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  67. 61, Paul Montagu (094af7) — 12/12/2020 @ 5:08 pm

    Move along, no sedition here.

    Here’s the music for that:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsFGcPujq

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  68. Why do insane people keep speaking at these pro-Trump rallies…

    The organizer of the Stop the Steal rally is talking about her belief the election was stolen by an evil supercomputer named Hammer. To fight back, she has brought a real hammer, and bangs it on the podium.

    https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1337814260357984256?s=21

    Paul Montagu (094af7)

  69. While some focus on Trump’s tilting at windmills, there are real terrorist groups trying to overthrow the US of A and have the full support of the left in power.

    https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2020/12/12/another-car-runs-protesters-nyc/

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  70. @67,
    Quite right. Suppression of free speech on behalf of the Democrats is ever so much nicer when they use private means to carry it out, right? 🙂

    Towering Barbarian (7ce0bf)

  71. NJRob, this crap with folks blocking streets and intimidating folks trying to go about their lives has got to stop. It’s already a crime to obstruct a roadway, but doing it in a mob like this should be a more serious crime, and the police should be shutting it down. Because that’s not really happening, once in a while it’s turning into violence. A lot of police supervisors are afraid of getting into trouble with protestors, seeing things as bad enough without pouring fuel on the fire. But if that’s the price to keep people safe, so be it. It’s been a long year.

    trump had a chance to do something here. In my state, the police licensure commission is notoriously toothless and ineffective. I’m sure that’s the case in many states. Excellence in police licensing (and accountability for fishy resignations or poor standards in agencies) would make life better for most cops and are a conservative sort of solution to the BLM issues. I think that sure beats Trump’s little church walk thing.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  72. No ICU beds left in Mississippi as COVID-19 case levels continue to hit record highs
    …….
    (State Health Officer Dr. Thomas) Dobbs said in a Tweet that beginning Tuesday, all elective procedures that require hospitalization must be delayed statewide. The Mississippi Department of Health is also anticipating many more hospitalizations as the increase in cases continues.

    Liz Sharlot, director of communications for the health department, said the order will go into effect Tuesday and last until Dec. 23. Procedures such as knee replacements and colonoscopies will be among those delayed, but things such as cancer treatments and trauma surgery will not.
    ……..
    Mississippi’s latest spike is due in part to people gathering over the holidays. Medical experts across the state anticipated the increase for weeks and warned residents against hosting large parties and family meals, instead suggesting they keep celebrations inside their nuclear household.

    But a large number of cases have been recorded in Mississippi in the weeks since, with the state setting a new single-day record on Wednesday. In total, more than 11,000 new cases have been identified this week as of Friday. Mississippi officially exceeded 4,000 coronavirus-related deaths on Tuesday.
    ……..
    Entirely foreseeable. It’s going to a sad Christmas.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  73. @72-

    I agree. Better the private sector than the government. 😜

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  74. With all the attention on Rudi, and Sidney, and Jenna, and the Kraken, L’yddle Scotty Adams wanted some attention too, so he posted a video in violation of YouTube’s policies, which was then taken down by YouTube. One, as in “1”, being the number between 0 and 2, video. His channel and all his other videos are still up, which outrages me since all waste heat generated by electronic devices contributes to global warming.

    nk (1d9030)

  75. @75,
    Quite right. Now if only Hitler had possessed the wisdom to have outsourced the Holocaust to the private sector I have no doubt you would have happily supported the Holocaust as well. 🙂

    Towering Barbarian (7ce0bf)

  76. “Suppression of free speech on behalf of the Democrats is ever so much nicer when they use private means to carry it out, right?”

    Which Democrats are directing Youtube to ban people?

    Davethulhu (431e91)

  77. @78,
    Quite right. If one cannot name every member of the Chinese military upon demand then this counts as proof that the Tiananmen Square Massacre of 1989 never took place, right? 🙂

    Towering Barbarian (7ce0bf)

  78. “Quite right. If one cannot name every member of the Chinese military upon demand then this counts as proof that the Tiananmen Square Massacre of 1989 never took place, right? ”

    You’re the one making the claim. It’s up to you to back it up.

    Davethulhu (431e91)

  79. How do we know that it’s the Democrats and not the International Leftist Globalist Zionist Masonic Vatican Lizard Overlord Illuminati Conspiracy?

    nk (1d9030)

  80. R.I.P. Charley Pride, 86.

    Covid closed his show.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  81. As a private company, Google can do what it wants. Trump’s support for Section 230 repeal wasn’t serious

    There are two misstatements here.

    One, Google is a monopolist. If it did not utterly control video distribution, what is allows or not wouldn’t matter. Break it up into 463 companies and not a problem.

    Two, Section 230, if repealed, would massively increase censorship on the few remaining public forums that dared to operate without it. Patterico would shut down comments here immediately if that repeal happened.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  82. NJRob, this crap with folks blocking streets and intimidating folks trying to go about their lives has got to stop. It’s already a crime to obstruct a roadway, but doing it in a mob like this should be a more serious crime, and the police should be shutting it down. Because that’s not really happening, once in a while it’s turning into violence. A lot of police supervisors are afraid of getting into trouble with protestors, seeing things as bad enough without pouring fuel on the fire. But if that’s the price to keep people safe, so be it. It’s been a long year.

    trump had a chance to do something here. In my state, the police licensure commission is notoriously toothless and ineffective. I’m sure that’s the case in many states. Excellence in police licensing (and accountability for fishy resignations or poor standards in agencies) would make life better for most cops and are a conservative sort of solution to the BLM issues. I think that sure beats Trump’s little church walk thing.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 12/12/2020 @ 6:02 pm

    It really does need to stop. It gives many the feeling that there are two sets of rules in America and if you are part of a certain group, you get more privileges and protections than others. And to be clear, that group is radical leftism.

    I know you don’t agree Dustin, but much of what I have seen by Trump followers is just a response to what they perceive as illegal acts by the left given tacit approval by those in government. We used to understand that M.A.D. was the only way to engage in dente with the Soviet Union, but we demand that the right disarms while the left is never made to pay for their criminal acts. It’s that fair play that has so many on the verge of saying screw it, we will play the same game and just go after power for power’s sake.

    That’s dangerous and will lead to the dissolution of our nation if it isn’t stopped. But both sides need to hold their own accountable. Wake me if you’ve heard this before.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  83. Wow this thing’s still around? Sounds like you guys are really supporting the election rigging. You should be calling for forensic analysis of those Dominion machines because when it shows they are totally legitimate it will really put the Trumpster in his place and show how irresponsible these claims of voter fraud are. But I’m not seeing a lot of that from those who are championing the Dominion machines. The voting machine supporters seem more interested in suppressing analysis. Forensic analysis is evil!

    JCurtis (9d70db)

  84. I agree. Better the private sector than the government.

    I disagree. If government tries it, the courts will stop them. If a monopolist does it, guillotine repairmen like Rip will defend their right to throttle political discussion.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. @84 et al:

    So, I’ve been watching the British miniseries called “COBRA” about a crisis following a new “Carrington Event” where a solar flare wipes out electrical stations and much electronic infrastructure.

    In the middle of this crisis, they are trying to move this giant transformer up to Northumberland, and protesters are blocking the road demanding that a raft of petty issues be solved first (and other bad behavior).

    The government is unable to figure out what to do. This is our future.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  86. Davethulu, I’ll take it at face value that you claim not to know and are not gaslighting the crowd.
    1.

    In a letter addressed to YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki, Senators Gary Peters of Michigan, Robert Mendez of New Jersey, Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, and Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, expressed “deep concern” over the election misinformation spreading on the video-sharing platform.

    “These videos seek to undermine our democracy and cast doubt on the legitimacy of President-elect Biden’s incoming administration. Moreover, because the current president has not committed to a peaceful transition of power, misinformation and manipulated media content on your platform may fuel civil unrest,” the senators wrote in the letter.

    2.

    A Democrat Congressional committee is demanding YouTube censor videos that contain “climate misinformation” as part of a new purge that would basically eliminate skepticism about man-made global warming from the platform.

    In a letter sent to Google CEO Sundar Pichai, the U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee on the Climate Crisis claims that YouTube has “been driving millions of viewers to climate misinformation videos every single day.”

    3.

    https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/1255902443390599169

    Schiff desiring censoring what he calls misinformation about coronavirus treatments. Sammy would disagree with Schiff.

    Look forward to you saying it’s good to prevent misinformation. Of course, who decides what’s misinformation. Here it’s clearly leftist politicians.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  87. @88: And of course if they don’t do what is asked, “Well that’s a nice little monopoly you have there. Be terrible if we loosed the winged monkeys on you.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  88. @67. ‘As a private company, Google can do what it wants. Trump’s support for Section 230 repeal wasn’t serious.’

    Does this ‘ring a Bell’?!:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  89. Look forward to you saying it’s good to prevent misinformation. Of course, who decides what’s misinformation. Here it’s clearly leftist politicians.

    Left, right, does not matter. This is a blatant attempt to bypass the first amendment, and Google is hopping to their orders. Government-censorship-by-proxy is still government censorship.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. Always with the non-sequitur, DC. I’m surprised you couldn’t fit Reagan into that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  91. Agreed Kevin. It might be time to amend the constitution like we did with the 14th to incorporate the Bill of Rights further to ensure we aren’t being censored by proxy.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  92. @91-
    What is the evidence (outside of your opinion) is there “government-censorship-by-proxy”?

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  93. Corps can’t discriminate based on race, creed, national origin, sex, identity, etc, but when it comes to speech which is enshrined by the 1st Amendment, silence away.

    How does that work?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  94. What is the evidence (outside of your opinion) is there “government-censorship-by-proxy”?

    I guess NJRob was correct about you ignoring the info in #88

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  95. NJRob. I think the problem is not that they censor, but that they have market control while they do it. If there were a dozen video channels, with none of them having such control, I wouldn’t care what one of them does, and the effect of an ORDER by government officials would be all too clear.

    There is no reason to have such a rule with TV stations, or radio — as much as some would like it anyway — because there are so many players in the marketplace that it would be impossible to effectively censor.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  96. I agree with Kevin. Everything in the world should be free to anybody who wants it. Living in Chicago, I need to keep the doors to my house because of the weather, but I’m taking the locks off first chance I get. And leaving my car doors unlocked and the keys to the ignition too.

    Look, comrades, YouTube is a “monopoly” which is free to both Scott Adams and his viewers. He might even be getting a cut of the ad revenue. He should shut his unprepossessing face, say “Thank you”, and not bite the hand that gives his beggarly ass spare change.

    nk (1d9030)

  97. It’s Hard to Prove’: Why Antitrust Suits Against Facebook Face Hurdles
    ……..
    First, prosecutors must show that Facebook bought rivals like the photo-sharing site Instagram and the messaging service WhatsApp with the express purpose of killing off the competition. Then they must argue a theoretical: Consumers and the social media market would have been better off without the mergers.

    On top of that, regulators reviewed Facebook’s acquisitions years ago and did not stop them. They will have to explain why they changed their minds now. And any company breakup may face the skepticism of courts, which have been hesitant about undoing mergers because that can sometimes cause more harm to consumers than good, some legal experts said.
    ……..
    The penalties that regulators are seeking in the case against Facebook are especially onerous. They proposed that courts block future mergers and force the company to sell off Instagram and WhatsApp. Ian Conner, the F.T.C.’s head of competition enforcement, said the remedies would help restore competition and “provide a foundation for future competitors to grow and innovate without the threat of being crushed by Facebook.”

    But cases challenging consummated mergers are uncommon, as are lawsuits that seek to break up companies, legal experts said. The last major antitrust lawsuit that led to divestitures was against AT&T in 1984, said William Kovacic, a former Republican chairman of the Federal Trade Commission. In that case, AT&T was ordered to sell local telecommunications companies known as Baby Bells.
    ……..
    ………[A]nother difficulty for the F.T.C. and the states would be to prove that the world would have been better off if the mergers with Instagram and WhatsApp had not happened.

    Facebook, however, will be able to show that Instagram and WhatsApp grew substantially after being acquired. The company has said it invested millions of dollars in the apps, helping them amass billions of users and turning them into prime communication channels around the world.
    ………
    I don’t have a dog in this fight, I don’t use Facebook. But a lot of this (like the antitrust suit against Google, possible actions against Amazon and Apple looks more like attacks on successful companies rather than a concern for consumer welfare (with a little bit of political revenge thrown in).

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  98. @96-
    I don’t see any comment from NJRob addressed to me personally, but in reference to #88 it is to their discredit that Google/YouTube removed the videos, since doing so won’t gain them any friends and will embolden their enemies.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  99. Rip,

    it doesn’t needed to be directed at you to see if you use the information added or ignore it. Thank you for acknowledging the information.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  100. Sorry, I really only look for responses with the post number or my name.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  101. @92. Actors are phone-ees.

    Reaganaurics. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  102. We’d often debate the eventual fate of such platforms in media circles. Water cooler stuff. They’re run by the young with invincible mindsets and no memory of what can and has happened. Look how long it took to break up the phone company; or standard Oil… but it eventually occurred. They’re hybrid media platforms and history rhymes. It’s kin to the early ‘wild west days’ of radio. Expect eventual strong regulation as w/t the networks back in the day– or just a ‘Bell-curve’ break up.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  103. The Boss does SNL.

    Still the best damn college concert ever attended–4 1/2 hours for just a few bucks.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  104. Bugs Bunny Nips The Nips. You won’t find it on YouTube. Or a whole big bunch of other content from your childhood, cartoon and otherwise, now politically incorrect.

    But you know what? You couldn’t find it on YouTube in your childhood, either. Because there was no YouTube in your childhood!

    nk (1d9030)

  105. “Look forward to you saying it’s good to prevent misinformation. ”

    It’s good to prevent misinformation.

    “Government-censorship-by-proxy is still government censorship.”

    It’s not censorship-by-proxy.

    “And of course if they don’t do what is asked, “Well that’s a nice little monopoly you have there. Be terrible if we loosed the winged monkeys on you.””

    This hasn’t happened.

    So, tell me this: What is Youtube selling, that they have a monopoly on? They’re not selling the right to upload videos, that’s free. The people who upload videos are not their customers.

    Davethulhu (431e91)

  106. But you know what? You couldn’t find it on YouTube in your childhood, either. Because there was no YouTube in your childhood!

    I’m sure that made sense when you typed it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  107. Youtube has its own rights of speech and association. If you understand that concept as applied to the Fairness Doctrine and Citizens United, you should understand it as applied to Youtube and Twitter.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  108. Democrats in congress are planning to use the 14th amendment against the 100+ republicans signing onto the texas sedition to stop them from being seated. The charge sedition and conspiracy to commit treason and civil insurrection.

    asset (aeb6cb)

  109. I know you don’t agree Dustin, but much of what I have seen by Trump followers is just a response to what they perceive as illegal acts by the left given tacit approval by those in government. We used to understand that M.A.D. was the only way to engage in dente with the Soviet Union, but we demand that the right disarms while the left is never made to pay for their criminal acts.

    I get that, actually. It often does feel like the government’s bureacracy, the folks below the elected leadership who are always there, has picked a side. I also think in many workplaces, lefties feel bold about establishing what’s the normal political view on issues ranging from climate change to social issues, and conservatives tend to keep that stuff to themselves. Add in academia, and it’s a real bias in society, and a lot of people recognize they are losing a major culture battle, and it seems unfair.

    I don’t think mutually assurred destruction is the answer to black lives matters supporting riots, or nutcases smacking cars in intersections. The rioters seek that kind of unrest. Trolling conservatives into violence is a goal of many of these folks. It’s not something they are afraid of, even if it’s a lefty who gets hurt once in a while. They want to dismantle our democracy and institutions so something else can be imposed. It used to feel like a crazy fantasy to read their literature, but now I’m not so sure. Proud Boys are a gift to the left.

    At any rate, I don’t think violence at street intersections is an argument for folks to disarm. I do oppose goons with ARs screaming at legislators. If they want to conceal carry for protection that’s really not the same kind of thing.

    While I know you’re sincere, think about how this works. The left sees the proud boys stab someone and starts kicking cars. Or maybe some righty sees someone kick a car and runs out and joins the proud boys. Both are being fed these outrages and both think they are merely answering it. But why does it matter who started it? Most of the folks we’re talking about are mentally ill in my opinion.

    This isn’t some detente strategy. It’s click bait.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  110. Number 6
    I think you have somehow confused “government official” and “bureaucrat”
    The elected official is only supposed to be beholden to citizens, and his every decision should be guided by fear of public backlash.
    A bureaucrat on the other hand, fears nothing and laughs at any sort of discipline talk about his job performance, decisions, behaviors etc.

    Tom_from_Ohio (5cf707)

  111. @ NJRob & Dustin:

    I have followed the conversations here (and yours in particular) with great interest, and I am much edified by the well-stated arguments. Both of you, especially, are a source of wealth on this site, and I am reminded that I still have much to think about. Thank you.

    felipe (630e0b)

  112. 111. asset (aeb6cb) — 12/12/2020 @ 11:42 pm

    Democrats in congress are planning to use the 14th amendment against the 100+ republicans signing onto the texas sedition to stop them from being seated. The charge sedition and conspiracy to commit treason and civil insurrection.

    What Democrats? Where did you hear that? Are you sure that’s anything more than a rhetorical point some people made (even if it includes one or more members of Congress)

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  113. What Democrats?

    A congressman from NJ sent a letter to the House leadership pointing out the 14th amendment bars the 126 who violated their oath by attempting to overthrow the constitution from serving in congress.

    Dave (1bb933)

  114. Youtube has its own rights of speech and association. If you understand that concept as applied to the Fairness Doctrine and Citizens United, you should understand it as applied to Youtube and Twitter.

    If you understand the Fairness Doctrine and Citizens United then you know they have zilch to do with Section 230 protections, without which YouTube wouldn’t be YouTube, meaning it wouldn’t be able to leverage the nonsense that it’s a platform not a publisher.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  115. Rod Dreher, scourge of the woke Left, communism and totalitarianism, reviews yesterday’s “Jericho March”

    Then came a Messianic Jewish “rabbi” exhorting the crowd “in Yeshua’s name.” This man, Curt Landry, says he recently had a Cecil B. DeMillian vision of Moses leading a flock of sheep.

    “Like a banana, the sheep’s face peeled back, and inside was the Lion of the Tribe of Judah,” he said, using a messianic title for Christ.

    As was Landry roaring about apocalyptic visions, the broadcast went to split screen to show a My Pillow ad. A reader of my tweetstorm about all this messaged me to say, “Credit where it’s due: flogging a MyPillow discount between prayers for God to smite your enemies is the most American thing ever.”

    Then a woman who heads a pro-Trump organization in Virginia came onstage to instruct the crowd: “We have to align our spirituality to our politics.” Just as Trump won a landslide election victory, she said, we will have a “landslide against evil.”

    We have heard this over and over this year from the woke Left: those who oppose them are not just wrong, but evil. And now we have it from the Right. This country cannot withstand this.

    Read the whole thing, it’s mind-boggling.

    Dave (1bb933)

  116. Sounds like you guys are really supporting the election rigging.

    Who here is supporting it, JC?
    What “election rigging”? What’s your proof?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  117. NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/12/2020 @ 7:29 pm

    Democrat politicians don’t have the power or constitutionality to proscribe the free speech rights of a private company, so they expel wind and write angry letters all they want.
    There is a good argument about YouTube being a monopoly, that it’s ripe for some kind of break-up.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  118. 116. Dave (1bb933) — 12/13/2020 @ 8:11 am

    the 14th amendment bars the 126 who violated their oath by attempting to overthrow the constitution from serving in congress.

    I think insurrection or rebellion at least involves weapons, not lawfare or possible falsely reasoned votes.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  119. So much for ‘Biden the socialist’

    We should keep track of the Republican lies if only because they are destined to be repeated in future elections. In this case, I am not talking about The Lie (that President-elect Joe Biden stole the election), but about the other lazy attack Republicans deploy against virtually any Democrat: They are socialists!

    We heard that gibe continually during the 2020 campaign. We continue to hear it from right-wing, anti-democratic Republicans, who shriek that voting for a 50-50 split in the Senate by electing Democrats Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock in the Georgia Senate runoff elections will summon — you guessed it — the rise of socialism and downfall of American capitalism. Poppycock.

    Given Biden’s record on everything from the Iraq War to the 1994 crime bill to his campaign rhetoric opposing Medicare-for-all, Republican fear-mongering about a radical Democratic administration never made sense. And certainly, a party that no longer believes in the sanctity of elections and democratic self-government loses all credibility in identifying “radicals.”

    […]

    Republicans who voted against President Trump, not necessarily because they favored or even knew much about Biden’s agenda, might be pleasantly surprised to find out that Biden Democrats look a lot like what used to be called Rockefeller Republicans. Given that the Republican Party has descended into authoritarian lunacy, these refugees from the Trump GOP might find themselves voting Democratic by default for a while. They will not agree with the administration on some issues, but they might be surprised by how little strikes them as excessively progressive, let alone socialist.

    I agree. In 1992, Clinton and Gore ran as moderates and then whip-sawed to the left within days after the election. Biden has done nothing like that.

    Dave (1bb933)

  120. From Face the Nation today:

    1. Coronovirus in the United States goes back at least to last December in Georgia and immunity lasts.

    Face the Nation had a panel of people who were at least reluctant to take the vaccine, and one man, a lack man from Georgia (Atlanta?) said that a year ago he and his wife and his son were very sick, just on Christmas. He went to the doctor two day later (= Friday, Dec 27, 2019)

    And he was tested and they said it was not the flu and it was not bronchitis. And since CBS had him last on, he went to the doctor in October and he said it was probably coronavirus only they didn’t know it. And he was tested for antibodies and he had them. [Note: This is ten months later – but, on the other hand, maybe he was exposed again and that acted like a booster shot so we can;t say from that how long antibodies will remain detectable in the blood. Immunity lasts much loner than antibodies because of immune system memory but there;s no est for that.)

    He says he will probably take the vaccine, but later. Which sounds like he got cautious medical advice.

    2. Neutralizing monoclonal antibodies have been delivered to the states but some states aren’t using them, and some are distributing them in a very irregular way.

    3. CVS has the vaccine but they’ve been told not to start until Monday December 21, a week from now. The reason apparently is legal- they need to get signed consent forms. Dr. Scott Gottlieb says the FDA could have authorized some kind of consent form in advance but they didn’t. Some people in nursing homes may need to have someone from their family sign for them. (if they didn’t get consent forms in advance they might have to visit the same place an extra time)

    By thr way, Trump and is Chief of Staff pressured the FDA to authorize the vaccine faster last week. Mark Meadows reportedly telephoned the FDA chairman and told him that it get authorized by the end of the day (Friday) or maybe even he could be fired and Trump tweeted they should stop playing games. So the FDA authorized it Friday night instead of Saturday morning as they were planning to.

    (But I think they misled everybody into thinking this would happen on Thursday)

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  121. I think insurrection or rebellion at least involves weapons

    The only reason no weapons were involved is that the coup plotters failed to enlist five Justices in their conspiracy against the constitution.

    Dave (1bb933)

  122. Dave (1bb933) — 12/13/2020 @ 9:37 am

    I agree. In 1992, Clinton and Gore ran as moderates and then whip-sawed to the left within days after the election. Biden has done nothing like that.

    What Clinton did is throw out his entire “economic plan” that he ran on.

    It wasn’t more to the left except for the unnecessary higher taxes. He then maneuvered things so his budget would pass by one vote in both houses, with not one single Republican voting for it, while many Republicans went around claiming it would bring economic disaster as he knew it would not. He also knew it wouldn’t help but that was not the idea.

    The idea was to portray the Republican Party as more partisan than the Democratic Party. But people saw through that, and, with the health care bill in mind, the voters turned over control of both houses of Congress to the Republicans (the House for the first time in 40 years) People hate rubber stamps.

    Biden is installing what looks like an improved version of the Obama Administration. With regard to fiscal policy, it’s actually more left.

    Biden is giving jobs to all factions, so they can feel represented, but not necessarily the jobs they want!

    Biden probably also feels he narrowly won, and anything more to left on some issues would lose.

    Some people from the Obama administration are coming back but they are demoted.

    It’s almost like a coalition government in a European Parliamentary system. Susan Rice is being appointed as head of the Domestic Policy Council is the White House, not anything to do with foreign policy. John Kerry comes back as climate deal negotiator, with Cabinet level rank. Xavier Becerra gets Health and Human Services, not Attorney General. Marsha Fudge gets HUD, not Secretary of Agriculture (the Black caucus had wanted that for its role in food stamps and black farmers. I don’t know how they are different from white farmers except they are in different states, maybe raising different crops and there was a time, not so long ago. when they didn’t get unfair favorable treatment but others, more politically valuable to the incumbent Congressperson, did.)

    Biden also seems to believe in climate cange action and he;s appointing

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  123. 124. Dave (1bb933) — 12/13/2020 @ 10:01 am

    The only reason no weapons were involved is that the coup plotters failed to enlist five Justices in their conspiracy against the constitution.

    That’s not against he constitution. Against all feelings of common sense but not against the constitution.

    https://soapboxie.com/government/Hughes-Hubris

    In a 1907 speech [Charles Evans] Hughes [later twice appointed to the Supreme Court, 1910-1916 and 1930-1941 as Chief Justice[ stated

    “We are under a Constitution, but the Constitution is what the judges say it is…”

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  124. @120-
    There is a good argument about YouTube being a monopoly, that it’s ripe for some kind of break-up.

    Break YouTube into what parts? It’s not a monopoly, you can post videos on Twitter, Instagram, or Parler.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  125. That’s not against he constitution. Against all feelings of common sense but not against the constitution.

    Inviting in the Spetznaz and deputizing them to serve as election security wouldn’t be against the constitution either.

    Dave (1bb933)

  126. Break YouTube into what parts? It’s not a monopoly, you can post videos on Twitter, Instagram, or Parler.

    ABC, CBS, NBC, NPR, CNN, Fox, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Sling, and thousands more. It’s just that they won’t give you the same sweet deal YouTube does — free streaming, free storage, and free viewing.

    What we have here, Comrade Rip, is people accusing a Salvation Army soup kitchen of having a monopoly on free food and threatening to sue because gluten-free soyburgers are not on the menu.

    nk (1d9030)

  127. While I do think that Alphabet (parent company of google, which owns youtube) could use some anti-Trust attention, I don’t think you can force youtube to carry or not carry certain content. Youtube is not meant to be a freedom of speech platform. It’s a sales platform.

    Nic (896fdf)

  128. Ha! Gordian knot, meet nk and his cutting remark.

    felipe (630e0b)

  129. Trump unleashes an army of sore losers

    It’s been five weeks since the election, and he still hasn’t conceded. Alleging massive voter fraud, he’s demanded an audit of votes in populous Democratic strongholds. On Thursday, he sued the secretary of state.

    We’re talking here about Loren Culp, the unsuccessful Republican nominee for governor in Washington state, where he lost by more than 13 percentage points on Nov. 3. Like Donald Trump, Culp insists he’s the victim of a rigged election.

    Trump, it seems, isn’t the only dead-ender holding out more than a month after the election, refusing to acknowledge defeat. Even as Trump lost again in court on Friday, with the Supreme Court rejecting a long-shot effort to overturn the election, he remains a lodestar for denialists of the GOP.

    In California, a Republican congressional candidate trounced in Democratic-heavy Los Angeles is still refusing to concede — while simultaneously announcing he’s running for governor. In Maryland, a congressional candidate beaten by more than 40 percentage points is still complaining about “irregularities” in her election. And in Tennessee, a House candidate defeated by more than 57 percentage points has reached out to the ubiquitous pro-Trump lawyer Sidney Powell to air her grievances about an election that no Republican had any chance of winning — but that she’s convinced she did.

    The down-ballot parroting of Trump’s baseless claims of widespread voter fraud began right after the election. But in the weeks since, it has evolved into a self-sustaining phenomenon of its own. Republican candidates for House, legislative and gubernatorial races in more than half a dozen states are still refusing to concede.

    Echoing the president, these candidates are an early sign of what Republicans say will be a sustained, post-Trump effort to tighten voting restrictions and to reverse measures implemented in many states to make voting easier. They also may mark the beginning of a Trump-inspired trend of candidates who never fold — they just fade away after weeks and months of unsubstantiated allegations of fraud.

    “It’s not about whether it’s a competitive race or not,” said Errol Webber, a little-known Republican who lost his race to unseat Rep. Karen Bass (D-Calif.) by more than 70 percentage points. “It’s on principle that we will not let up until the truth is known.”

    Bat. Sh*t. Crazy.

    Dave (1bb933)

  130. While I do think that Alphabet (parent company of google, which owns youtube) could use some anti-Trust attention,……..

    Justice Department Sues Monopolist Google For Violating Antitrust Laws
    Back in October DOJ sued to break up another successful American company.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  131. Speaking of an army being unleashed:

    “ In keeping with the Orwellian manipulation of the language so drearily common to the modern leftist, certain words will be excised from the vernacular of the courthouse in Los Angeles County. “Today,” begins Gascón’s Special Directive on Resentencing, “California prisons are filled with human beings charged, convicted and sentenced under prior District Attorneys’ policies.”

    The jarring use of the term “human beings” is explained in a footnote: “We will seek to avoid using dehumanizing language such as ‘inmate,’ ‘prisoner,’ ‘criminal,’ or ‘offender’ when referencing incarcerated people.” One wonders how they will come to euphemize the term “crime victim,” the numbers of whom will surely surge in Los Angeles County before voters regain their senses and Gascón is ultimately turned out of office.

    If only abuse of the language were the worst of it. The new policies are the stuff of a defense attorney’s fever dreams, as Gascón has in effect enacted a separate penal code for Los Angeles County, one of his own and his leftist enablers’ creation. He has vowed to ignore various provisions of California law and give those arrested on a variety of misdemeanor beefs a free pass. Charges of trespassing, driving without a license or with a suspended license, disturbing the peace, criminal threats, and even resisting arrest will be “declined or dismissed before arraignment and without conditions.” Non-specific exemptions will be allowed, but given the overall tenor of the policy such exceptions will of course be rare.”

    https://the-pipeline.org/social-justice-comes-to-los-angeles/
    __

    Portland coming to LA. Enjoy it!
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  132. @133 Every monopoly is a successful company. The problem comes when they use their 500 lb gorilla strength to stop other people from becoming successful as well.

    Nic (896fdf)

  133. As Sophocles never wrote, “Numberless are the world’s wonders, but none more wondrous than Trumpkins in heat.”

    nk (1d9030)

  134. Or maybe I’m thinking of a Jackson Browne lyric:

    Among the human beings, in their designer jeans
    Am I the only one who hears the screams
    And the strangled cries of Trumpkins in heat?

    nk (1d9030)

  135. @133. They’re going to learn the hard way; their nickel-and-dime self-regulation crap won’t work much longer. Either it’s a path to government regulation or a break-up/divestiture order just as w/t radio/television networks [see the creation of the ABC]; the break-up of Ma Bell; of Standard Oil back in the day… and the Hollywood studios ordered to sell off their ownership of theaters back in the mid-20th century.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  136. Ron Wrote

    Davethulu, I’ll take it at face value that you claim not to know and are not gaslighting the crowd.
    1.

    In a letter addressed to YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki, Senators Gary Peters of Michigan, Robert Mendez of New Jersey, Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, and Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, expressed “deep concern” over the election misinformation spreading on the video-sharing platform.

    “These videos seek to undermine our democracy and cast doubt on the legitimacy of President-elect Biden’s incoming administration. Moreover, because the current president has not committed to a peaceful transition of power, misinformation and manipulated media content on your platform may fuel civil unrest,” the senators wrote in the letter.

    2.

    A Democrat Congressional committee is demanding YouTube censor videos that contain “climate misinformation” as part of a new purge that would basically eliminate skepticism about man-made global warming from the platform.

    In a letter sent to Google CEO Sundar Pichai, the U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee on the Climate Crisis claims that YouTube has “been driving millions of viewers to climate misinformation videos every single day.”

    3.

    https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/1255902443390599169

    Schiff desiring censoring what he calls misinformation about coronavirus treatments. Sammy would disagree with Schiff.

    Look forward to you saying it’s good to prevent misinformation. Of course, who decides what’s misinformation. Here it’s clearly leftist politicians.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/12/2020 @ 7:29 pm

    This is horrible and the people that run google should be ashamed. Both parties want the law changed so they can pressure social media companies to do what they want. There’s disagreement about what that is but as soon as we make it legal for the government to do that it will diminish our ability to speak freely.

    The difference between Google chooses to censor things and the government forcing them to is huge.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  137. This is a homerun article:
    https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/barrs-critics-should-reconsider/

    I particularly like this blurb:

    “…Despite their confidence in their ability to see a complicated world of nuance and shades of gray, they’re actually pretty Manichaean in their worldview — you’re either a progressive Democratic good guy or you’re aligned with one of history’s greatest monsters. No one is allowed to be merely mistaken or wrong; all of the opposition’s arguments must be made in bad faith and they must be driven by malevolent motives.”

    …and:

    ” The desire to tell a dramatic narrative of heroes and villains, to stir up fear and paranoia, to demonize those who disagree, to contend that in every disagreement the very soul and future of the country is at stake, the willingness to leave out inconvenient facts, the inclination to mislead or lie . . .”

    I feel like that’s such an apt description of our politics these days.

    whembly (c30c83)

  138. From the Dreher piece on the Jericho March, this comment by a reader who grew up in the Evangelical culture struck me:

    You learn early on that you do whatever you want to do, and say, “God told me to do it.”

    This attitude dovetails with Trump’s moral code, which boils down to: “Whatever benefits me is always right.” And maybe it helps explain why so many people who consider themselves faithful Christians are so insistent that Trump’s egregious dishonesty and selfishness are perfectly acceptable and in no way tarnish his status as God’s anointed.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  139. In the debates trump told the proud boys to stand down and stand bye.

    This week the proud boys vandalized a church. I’m fine with morons with no love for the US and contempt for our democracy using their first amendment right to protest a fair election and spread falsehoods about what happened.

    But violence and vandalism have no part of a peaceful protest. I hope this type of thing is prevented from happening again in the future. It would be good and helpful if president Trump made clear that violence and vandalism aren’t acceptable. But that would require a level of leadership he’s shown himself incapable of.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  140. Karl Rove: Trump Is ‘On the Edge of Looking Like a Sore Loser’
    ………(On Fox News Sunday) ……Rove said:

    “The answer to that depends upon what’s his goal? If his goal is to lay the predicate to come back in 2024 and run again, he’s helping himself at least gaining the nomination, but I think in the long run he’s not helping himself or the country. America likes comebacks, but they don’t like sore losers, and he is on the edge of looking like a sore loser, and probably will look like it after January 6th.”

    Trump has looked like a sore loser since Nov. 7th.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  141. @143, of what year?

    Time123 (306531)

  142. @144-
    2020. Good point, though.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  143. “Youtube is not meant to be a freedom of speech platform. It’s a sales platform.”

    This is the point I was trying to make earlier. Specifically, Youtube is selling eyeballs to advertisers.

    Davethulhu (431e91)

  144. Deadliest place in America: They shrugged off the pandemic, then their family and friends started dying
    ………
    Just over a month ago, the now-rampaging coronavirus pandemic tore through (Quinter, Kansas) of 1,000 and surrounding Gove County, killing 20 residents.
    ……..
    As of Thursday, coronavirus has killed a higher percentage of Gove County residents than any other county in the United States: One out of every 132 people has died.
    …….
    Even today, mask-wearing remains controversial in Gove County, and friendships are being strained as authorities struggle to persuade their neighbors to follow basic public health guidelines, such as avoiding large gatherings.

    President Donald Trump won the county with 88% of the vote in November, and many of the residents, including the farmers who raise up corn and sorghum, are deeply skeptical of government and public health orders, often echoing the language Trump has used about mask-wearing and the pandemic’s severity.
    ……….
    ……….Gove County’s median age is nearly 50 years old, a decade older than the national average. Among the 2,600 residents, coronavirus found easy targets, especially once it worked its way into the nursing home.

    In August, just before the wave of positive cases began growing, Gove County leaders mandated everyone wear masks in public. They were forced to remove it two weeks later after a series of angry confrontations with their constituents. Around the same time, someone anonymously reported the county’s COVID-19 information Facebook page as spam or fake news, and it was temporarily taken offline just as public officials were trying to warn residents of the danger.
    ……….
    Despite the efforts of local public health officials and experts, many residents aren’t taking the deadly pandemic seriously. Bearded farmers stride defiantly down Main Street past signs requiring them to wear masks. School is still in session and churches are open. Someone threatened to blow up the home of a pro-mask county commissioner.
    ………..
    At least 188,460 people have been reported to have COVID-19 in Kansas. According to reports, 2,072 have died.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  145. “The desire to tell a dramatic narrative of heroes and villains, to stir up fear and paranoia, to demonize those who disagree, to contend that in every disagreement the very soul and future of the country is at stake, the willingness to leave out inconvenient facts, the inclination to mislead or lie . . .”

    I feel like that’s such an apt description of our politics these days.

    I’ve lived for a long time in a place that leans heavily to the left, while immersing myself (rather too much) in right-wing media, until the Trump cult shook me out of it. I may have been cheating myself of serious intellectual challenges to views I had aligned with – aside from the considerable differences between the libertarian and paleo wings of the Right — but I really couldn’t see the people around me as villains, by any stretch.

    I’ve been pretty coy about politics around most of my local acquaintances if the topic comes up, though there have been a few awkward moments when people happened to notice what I was reading — but by that time they knew I was a harmless creature who could be trusted to look after their dogs and cats when they were away, and who had never held their politics against them.

    As Dreher notes in his piece on the Jericho March, the radical Trumpist right is mimicking the Woke Left’s view that political opponents are not only wrong, but evil. Though in truth, I think there has always been more of that on the right than conservative intellectuals would admit. And the added feature on the religious right is the idea of being in a battle against Satan, literally. It isn’t just about being “on the right side of history,” but being on the side of light vs. darkness in a cosmic struggle, and within a tradition that includes martyrdom in the cause of righteousness.

    Some of the more intellectual conservatives might have sympathy with the light vs. darkness theme, even if they’re a little embarrassed by things like the Jericho March.

    The light vs. darkness conceit is now amped up in the alignment with a “charismatic leader” who insists on his own faultless infallibility and superiority to all others. While he’s clearly devoid of any serious religious or moral conviction, he has the mindset to encourage the belief that fighting for Trump = fighting for God.

    Which is a mind-boggling thought.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  146. Acting US defense secretary’s chief of staff Kash Patel files $50M defamation lawsuit against CNN
    Kash Patel, the chief of staff to Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller, has filed a $50 million defamation lawsuit against CNN and several of its top reporters, claiming the liberal network published false statements and promoted “unfounded left-wing political narratives” by painting Patel as a pro-Trump conspiracy theorist seeking to smear President-elect Joe Biden.
    …….
    The complaint says defamatory statements in the articles include, “Trump loyalist connected to Biden conspiracy theories is leading Pentagon transition,” “Kash Patel, a Trump loyalist, … was connected to efforts to spread conspiracy theories about Joe Biden,” Kash “has also worked to discredit Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election,” “Pentagon blocked Biden’s intelligence transition team from meeting with agencies,” and “Defense Department transition office … is led by a Trump loyalist connected to efforts to spread conspiracy theories about the President-elect,” among other similar examples.

    Patel’s legal team said CNN retaliated against him because he helped poke holes in the network’s narrative that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia before the 2016 election.

    CNN did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    Patel’s attorney, Steven S. Biss, argued “publication of the Defamatory Statements is part of a general pattern of retaliation and discrimination against Kash” and “a larger conspiracy undertaken between 2018 and the present to discredit Kash through the publication of false statements and the promotion of unfounded left-wing political narratives.”
    ………
    Comedy gold! Can’t wait to read his deposition. I guess he is seeing his association with. Trump and Nunes as a career detriment.

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  147. Dreher’s piece on the politico-spiritual brain damage at the Jericho March is definitely worth a full read, including the video links, including his updates, and so is the one by the Not Irrelevant French:

    This is a grievous and dangerous time for American Christianity. The frenzy and the fury of the post-election period has laid bare the sheer idolatry and fanaticism of Christian Trumpism.
    A significant segment of the Christian public has fallen for conspiracy theories, has mixed nationalism with the Christian gospel, has substituted a bizarre mysticism for reason and evidence, and rages in fear and anger against their political opponents—all in the name of preserving Donald Trump’s power.
    […]
    When I wrote in my book that American politics were growing so toxic that important political leaders may soon call for division, I did not envision that “soon” would be “now.”
    I’m going to be as blunt as possible: Language like Metaxas’s, like the Texas GOP’s, and like some of the statements you’ll read below embody a form of fanaticism that can lead to deadly violence. There isn’t a theological defense for it. Indeed, its fury and slander directly contradict biblical commands. When core biblical values are contingent, but support for Donald Trump is not, then idolatry is the result.
    We’re way, way past concerns for the church’s “public witness.” We’re way past concerns over whether the “reputation” of the church will survive this wave of insanity. There is no other way to say this. A significant movement of American Christians—encouraged by the president himself—is now directly threatening the rule of law, the Constitution, and the peace and unity of the American republic.
    It’s clear now that when many of those people declared Trump to be “God’s anointed” they did not mean that his presidency was “instituted by God” in the same manner as other governing authorities, as described in Romans 13. (By conventional Christian reasoning, Joe Biden’s upcoming presidency is also instituted by God.)
    No, they believe that Trump had a special purpose and a special calling, and that this election defeat is nothing less than a manifestation of a Satanic effort to disrupt God’s plan for this nation. They were not “holding their nose” to support him. They were deeply, spiritually, and personally invested in his political success.

    His prescription.

    I’m writing as a warning and as a call for action. Here’s the warning: While I hope and pray that protests remain peaceful and that seditious statements are confined to social media, we’d be fools to presume that peace will reign.

    Here’s the call to action: It’s time for conservative Christian leaders to shed any form of fear and to speak against conspiracies and against slander with the same boldness that many of them spoke for Trump. Again, this isn’t just about “witness.” It’s about justice. It’s about law. It’s about peace.

    Why do I keep mentioning fear? Because we all know exactly what happens when a prominent conservative opposes Trump. It’s been the same playbook for more than five years. They receive vicious personal attacks. Trumpists try to intimidate dissenters into silence. Trumpists try to destroy dissenters’ reputations, destroy their careers, and sometimes even destroy their lives.

    We know that mainstream American Christian leaders can unite to condemn secular and progressive movements and ideas they find biblically problematic.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  148. @146 — Youtube is selling eyeballs to advertisers.

    I’m always amused/annoyed by the commenters who complain about ads popping up during the movie or concert video they’re watching free of charge. If they don’t want to see ads, they can choose to pay for their entertainment instead of expecting other people to provide it at no cost.

    One downside of YouTube (etc.) is it encourages the belief that other people should offer what they’ve created at no cost to the consumer. I’ll admit that I’m happy to get free entertainment if I can, but I don’t really think other people owe it to me, even if they’ve already made heaps of money from their product.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  149. NJRob (eb56c3) — 12/12/2020 @ 7:29 pm

    Sammy would disagree with Schiff.

    Although I’d also disagree with much of what Schiff doesn’t want circulated.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  150. @150 —

    When core biblical [or ethical] values are contingent, but support for Donald Trump is not, then idolatry is the result.

    That has been a central problem with Trumpism from the beginning.

    we all know exactly what happens when a prominent conservative opposes Trump. It’s been the same playbook for more than five years. They receive vicious personal attacks. Trumpists try to intimidate dissenters into silence. Trumpists try to destroy dissenters’ reputations, destroy their careers, and sometimes even destroy their lives.

    And Trumpers do it while complaining that they’re victimized just because they support Trump.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  151. @153 Trump’s core appeal isn’t to any religious principle. It’s to evangelical Christians as an ethnic group that needs a mascot / leader who will object to what they feel is lack of respect for them as a group and their cultural traditions / totems. Because what they mostly want is respect in popular culture anyone that attacks Trump reduces his ability to provide that. So when there’s a conflict between ‘respecting’ Trump and some other value respecting Trump wins.

    Time123 (306531)

  152. @153 — I think that’s correct, though it’s passing strange that they chose a mascot who gives their enemies — and many people who weren’t even hostile to them (previously) — more reason to disrespect them, while embodying the antithesis of much that they claim to be defending from attack.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  153. RIP John le Carré (89)

    Rip Murdock (5b4ca4)

  154. It’s one thing to claim you’re on the right side of history, but to claim that you’re on God’s side ups the ante of self-righteousness and delusion. This is today’s Evangelical right. Trump has exposed the superficiality of the church by the widely approved of idolatry of him. God doesn’t *need* Trump. Christians seem to have forgotten that one is a sovereign, omniscient and omnipresent Lord who is, in and of Himself, complete, while the other is a cheap grifter selling snake oil to the willing masses.

    Dana (cc9481)

  155. If Trump were the devil, trying to humiliate and undermine the church, what would he do differently?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  156. When he’s not killing grandma and grandpa, he’s sexually assaulting their granddaughter:

    https://news.yahoo.com/former-development-aide-accuses-cuomo-183823882.html

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  157. Dustin (4237e0) — 12/13/2020 @ 2:55 pm
    That’s easy, he’d promote abortion, told the Sister of Charity to shut up and get with the program and he would have funded abortion all over the world starting with PP. He would not have spoken at the right to life rally, but tried to promote a counter protest like the Women’s March. These things wouldn’t even have been portrayed in the media as controversial. They would have criticized him anyways, though, as not going far enough to the left.

    felipe (630e0b)

  158. That’s just for starters.

    felipe (630e0b)

  159. Felipe, other then abortion what would he do? That’s the one area where he’s toed the evangelical line.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  160. You may be right, felipe, but a great deceiver would be clever. He wouldn’t tell us to abandon Jesus or embrace something very obviously unchristian. I have to wonder if the example of trading wives for younger models and sexualizing so many people is helpful to the pro-life, monogamy movement. A lot of young Christians are looking up to President Trump as a great savvy man.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  161. The light vs. darkness conceit is now amped up in the alignment with a “charismatic leader” who insists on his own faultless infallibility and superiority to all others. While he’s clearly devoid of any serious religious or moral conviction, he has the mindset to encourage the belief that fighting for Trump = fighting for God.

    Yes. My confusion is, given the message, THIS is their messenger.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  162. If Trump were the devil, trying to humiliate and undermine the church, what would he do differently?

    He would lead the faithful straight into the pit.

    Oh, wait, that’s what he IS doing.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  163. Trump was strongly pro-abortion, before it became politically expedient for him to adopt the diametrically opposite view:

    “I’m very pro-choice,” Trump told journalist Tim Russert at the time [1999]. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

    He went on to defend his liberal position by explaining that he grew up in New York, where he said there is a “different attitude” than other parts of the country.

    Later, when asked if abortion should be limited in the third trimester, Trump firmly replied, “No.”

    Even during the 2016 campaign, Trump initially showed no understanding the issue, or his position on it. In a single week, he first said criminal penalties for women who have abortions were necessary, then said the issue should be left up to the states.

    I think Felipe’s hypothetical is a poor one, because moderating his position on abortion would make the GOP more, rather than less, palatable to centrists, but it may be the only thing Trump could do that would threaten the devotion of his cultists.

    Dave (1bb933)

  164. He wouldn’t tell us to abandon Jesus or embrace something very obviously unchristian. Dustin (4237e0) — 12/13/2020 @ 4:19 pm

    You are quite right. Such a deceiver would never support fidelity to Jesus as well.

    I would liken Trumnp to King Cyrus in the book of Ezra. A king who knew not God, but whose actions benefited the chosen people of God. I don’t know any Christians who deny that Trump is a great sinner. Those that have said that Trump was “chosen” would be best understood in the spirit of Cyrus’ role in Ezra. Being a great sinner is no deal breaker for believers who have had the unlikeliest of allies throughout history. One recalls the parable of the good Samaritan.

    The most troubling thing to me about Trump is that he clearly appears to be unrepentant, and I fear for his soul. Fortunately, Trump has recourse to the Savior as I; it remains to be seen if he will. I can imagine that this is the single most common fear among his supporters, a fear that prolly is not proclaimed publicly enough, if at all, for his opponents.

    felipe (630e0b)

  165. He wouldn’t tell us to abandon Jesus or embrace something very obviously unchristian.

    Everything he says and does is very obviously unchristian.

    Dave (1bb933)

  166. Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/13/2020 @ 4:14 pm

    Another thing Trump would have done differently if he were the Devil and tried to undermine the church (and I mean anybody’s church) is he would have nominated justices that were diametrically opposed to the respect of religious freedom to SCOTUS. He also would not have changed the way the US handled the Middle East, changes that resulted in recognition by other countries, and the prospects for peace for Israel.

    felipe (630e0b)

  167. Dave (1bb933) — 12/13/2020 @ 4:53 pm

    Yes, Dave. King Cyrus was also no Jew (Christianity was not yet a thing).

    felipe (630e0b)

  168. Radegunda,

    You’re on fire with your comments today. I enjoy reading the thoughts of all of the women who comment here, including you, Dana, DRJ, and Nic.

    I am similar to you in that I lived among lefties in the Bay Area for 15 years before moving to Reno. It is so healthy to engage with people who have different political opinions. I now find myself somewhere between conservative Utah (where I grew up) and the liberal Bay Area, literally and figuratively!

    norcal (670733)

  169. https://nationalfile.com/leak-confirmed-chinese-communists-have-infiltrated-top-companies-governments-in-us-uk-australia/

    This is no surprise to anyone, but who wants to take bets what names are on it? Swalwell obviously. Who else?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  170. Felipe,

    thank you for the kind words.

    Dustin,

    the issue is that democrat AG’s and even many republican ones are refusing to prosecute these obvious law breakers and terrorizers. When regular people see that happening, some get radicalized. When the rule of law is used as a cudgel instead of blindly holding all equally accountable, people will react accordingly.

    Look at the criminal elected AG in Los Angeles. He flat out stated he will not prosecute many crimes and will eliminate bail, but do you want to bet he will viscously go after scofflaw businesses that dare to reopen to survive during this closure onslaught?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  171. In the context of the Jericho March, let’s not forget that Trump said the following last August:

    “Take away your guns, take away your Second Amendment. No religion, no anything. Hurt the Bible. Hurt God. He’s against God. He’s against guns. He’s against energy.”

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  172. Dave (1bb933) — 12/13/2020 @ 4:36 pm

    I have heard the “Trump did such and such for political expediency” thing so many times that it is now background noise to which I say, “So what if it is?” The result of his Presidency produced positive gains for pro life advocates. Do I care if the person who defends life, and my religious freedom profits from it? Am I to prefer punishing that person for their actions?

    felipe (630e0b)

  173. 132. Dave (1bb933) — 12/13/2020 @ 10:53 am

    Bat. Sh*t. Crazy.

    They are slowly morphing, or at risk of morphing, into Communists. Telling blatant lies and insisting it is the truth, and cheating about elections. The word Bolshevik meant majority, which they weren’t. (Fascists admit they don’t have popular support)

    It has not gone on long enough to say, with a few exceptions, that any of have passed the point of no return. Almost none have gone to the point of using force and killing.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  174. Time123 (9f42ee) — 12/13/2020 @ 4:14 pm

    Another thing Trump would have done differently if he were the Devil and tried to undermine the church (and I mean anybody’s church) is he would have nominated justices that were diametrically opposed to the respect of religious freedom to SCOTUS. He also would not have changed the way the US handled the Middle East, changes that resulted in recognition by other countries, and the prospects for peace for Israel.

    felipe (630e0b) — 12/13/2020 @ 4:54 pm

    This is a really good answer. Thank you for taking the time. I think comparing Trump to Cyrus the great is a huge stretch though.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  175. My opinion of Evangelicals is by and large the same as Trump’s opinion of Evangelicals.

    nk (1d9030)

  176. Chris Christie is going against the madness – but, although he might be a friend Of Trump, he’s not a elected Republican. Stronger than Lamar Alexander:

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-12-13-20-fda-commissioner-dr/story?id=74699868

    RADDATZ:…And, Chris, I’m going to start with you.

    You have said numerous times the president should just end his quest to overturn the election results. But he continues to dispute it, with 60 percent of Republicans in the House supporting that Texas case.

    What’s your message to the Republicans?

    CHRIS CHRISTIE, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, listen, the legal theory put forward by his legal team and by the president is an absurdity.

    And the reason why the Supreme Court didn’t take it is because it’s an absurd idea to think that any state or any number of states, no matter how good they are, can challenge another state’s right to run the election as they see fit.

    And, also, there’s no evidence. As we have — as I have been saying since election night, show us the evidence.

    And what’s gotten even worse, though, Martha, I think, is the attacks by the president on good, hardworking, decent Republican governors.

    And you have seen his attitude towards these folks change. And let’s think about why. Back in September, he said about Doug Ducey, Doug is tough, Doug is strong, Doug is a good governor, the Arizona governor.

    He said about Brian Kemp back in the summer that Brian is a capable man, he knows what he’s doing, and he’s done a very good job as governor.

    Now, after the election is over, and he lost Arizona and Georgia, he says they’re RINOs that are working harder against him. He’s calling them corrupt, and also telling people things that aren’t true.

    RADDATZ: So, Chris, what happens to your party?

    CHRISTIE: For instance, in Georgia, he’s talking about signature verification.

    Listen, Martha, it’s going to be — people are going to have to stand up and start to say these things. I mean, the fact is, in Georgia — and people should know this — that signature verification, which the president continues to tweet about, has been done twice in this election.

    It was done when the application for a mail-in ballot was sent in, and it was done when that mail-in ballot was ultimately sent in. And Governor Kemp has said this. The lieutenant governor has said it. The secretary of state has said it.

    And so it’s gone — the reason the Supreme Court is not taking this is not because of a lack of courage. It’s for the same reason that every court has thrown this out. It’s a lack of evidence and a lack of any type of legal theory that makes any sense.

    And the worst part, though, is attacking these guys, guys like Brian Kemp, Doug Ducey, and others, who are following the Constitution and executing the oath that they took.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  177. You are welcome, Time123.

    I think comparing Trump to Cyrus the great is a huge stretch though.
    Time123 (cd2ff4) — 12/13/2020 @ 5:15 pm

    When you are right, you are right!

    felipe (630e0b)

  178. “By and large” because I understand that there is not a monolithic evangelical church but many competing sects:
    The Reformed Episcopalians don’t recognize the Reformed Presbyterians;
    The Reformed Presbyterians don’t recognize the Pentecostals;
    The Pentecostals don’t recognize the Baptists;
    The Baptists don’t recognize each other in the liquor aisle; ….

    nk (1d9030)

  179. @183 And Mormons don’t recognize each other in Wendover, Nevada.

    norcal (670733)

  180. 85. JCurtis (9d70db) — 12/12/2020 @ 7:21 pm

    You should be calling for forensic analysis of those Dominion machines because when it shows they are totally legitimate it will really put the Trumpster in his place and show how irresponsible these claims of voter fraud are. But I’m not seeing a lot of that from those who are championing the Dominion machines. The voting machine supporters seem more interested in suppressing analysis. Forensic analysis is evil!

    Where are the inconsistencies with the paper ballots and other records?

    When the results of the Democratic Iowa caucuses this January were reported, people knew right away something was wrong – and where the errors were.

    And what kind of analysis would be done? Something with timing? It could only be used to spin lies, anyway.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  181. Oracle becomes the latest company to bolt California for Texas:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/12/californias-business-climate-deniers/

    Other recent occupants of the state’s job-departure lounge include Charles Schwab, Toyota, McKesson, Palantir, and Core-Mark Holding Company. The Greater Phoenix Economic Council boasts that in the next few weeks several headquarters and manufacturing operations will announce they are leaving California for Arizona.

    And then there are the smaller firms. Business-site consultant Joe Vranich estimates that the Golden State’s unfriendly tax and regulatory climate has prompted some 17,000 firms to leave over the past decade in whole or in part.

    ********

    “Anyone who doesn’t believe that this latest departure isn’t a threat to California’s economy is a business-climate denier,” Jim Wunderman, president and CEO of the Bay Area Council, said in a statement. “We are watching the unraveling of one of the world’s mightiest economies and the consequences will be devastating.”

    ********

    We all heard a parade of witnesses bemoaning California’s hostile regulatory climate. A producer of the movie Battle: Los Angeles mourned that he was forced to shoot his film in Louisiana. Since then, the departure of entertainment jobs from California has accelerated to the point that Georgia is now called “The Hollywood of the South.” As I noted then:

    Andy Puzder, then the CEO of Hardee’s Restaurants, said it took him six months to two years to secure permits to build a new Carl’s Jr. restaurant in the Golden State, versus the six weeks it takes in Texas. And California is also one of only three states that demands overtime pay after an eight-hour day, rather than after a 40-hour week. Such rules wreak havoc on flexible work schedules based on actual need. If there’s a line out the door at a Carl’s Jr. while employees are seen resting, it’s because they aren’t allowed to help: Break time is mandatory.

    Another business leader criticized the priorities of California leaders. He said teachers’ unions were strangling education reform even as more and more students were graduating without basic skills.

    ********

    With its irrational virus lockdowns — which now even ban outdoor dining — California seems destined to remain mired in economic quicksand as firms head for the nearest safe ground.

    If California continues its economic decline, something Texas-sized in its ambitions may be called for — whether it’s a moratorium on new business regulations or a restructuring of the state’s corrupt unemployment compensation or reining in suffocating litigation. Nothing less is likely to stem the outflow of businesses and jobs from the Golden State.

    I jumped ship in 2009.

    norcal (670733)

  182. In regards to California: pride goeth before the fall.

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  183. @173 — Thanks, norcal. It is healthy to be directly reminded that people I disagree with politically may be just as good and decent as people I agree with — and sometimes more so.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  184. There are two separate active federal investigations going on into Hunter Biden.

    The first one we knew about since shortly after the New York Post broke the story about the Hunter Biden laptop (actually recovered hard disk files, which were apparently downloaded from his iCloud account where he kept all his files, synchronizing them with any laptops – the laptops were more terminals and backups than his main archive of files)

    That was the investigation which the FBI opened after it was contacted by the computer repair shop owner around the time of the Trump impeachment hearings – the subpoena which the FBI used to obtain the hard drive that Hunter had left with repair shop for the repairman to put the recovered files on used a code that indicated it was a money laundering investigation.

    This investigation had no specific allegation and has gone nowhere. It was just used to begin digging into all the big money transfers that were revealed on the files.

    The second one, which Hunter Biden said his lawyer was notified of last week and which he then disclosed to the press, possibly because it had begun leaking, or for fear of leaks, is an income tax investigation.

    It is not clear what this concerns but one thing that could have caused it was a 2.8 carat diamond ring which the since purged influential Chinese businessman Ye Jianming had presented to Hunter Biden. Hunter Biden’s wife, Kathleen (Buhle) had wanted that included in his assets in their divorce. She said it was worth $80,000 and he countered it was worth only $10,000. He also said that he hadn’t kept it and had immediately passed it along to some other people who were with him at that dinner in Miami where he was given it because he was aware that there were possible legal and tax implications (and didn’t want this to be like Oprah Winfrey’s car?) It is not known whether the tax probe has anything to do with this.

    There is another mater which the New York Post revealed in the Sunday paper. Apparently, in October the New York Post hadn’t had a chance to go through those files they obtained through Giuliani. They knew mostly what Steve Bannon (who had been called in as a consultant on the China related materials in the Hunter Biden files by Giuliani and had suggested contacting the New York Post) had pointed out

    Robert Costello, an attorney for Giuliani had provided an email to NBC News and apparently the New York Post checked and found it among its voluminous Hunter Biden files. In 2017, Hunter Biden;s business partner emailed him that they still need to amend his 2014 tax returns to include unreported Burisma income from 2014, the year he joined the board. Evidently, income for 2015 and later was reported. This would have been after his father spoke to him and asked if he knew what he was doing so I can see why he would have reported income for 2015 but not 2014.

    Of course, by now his income tax return was probably corrected and the laptop files go up only to April 2018.

    It is possible the tax probe concerns this.

    Another thing the New York Post found significant but which may not mean too much is that Hunter Biden made a request fr spare keys to the manager of the building he had offices in. This would have been for keys to the building

    He also said the office sign should say:

    The Biden Foundation AND Hudson West (CFFC US)

    CEFC was the Chinese energy company that was controlled by Ye Jianming that was paying off Hunter and James Biden. It went out of business about a year after Ye Jianming was purged.

    This might indicate Hunter Biden was letting CEFC use the offices as a mail drop or an occasional meeting place

    Hunter Biden wanted keys for Joe Biden, Jill Biden, his uncle and partner James Biden and Gongwen Deng, described as an “emissary” for CEFC. He also said they were his office mates (to get the spare keys from the House of Sweden.)

    The FBI slowed down its investigation in the run up to the election because of a policy, instituted, I think, by Bill Clinton, of not doing anything to affect an election and this includes not issuing subpoenas or calling people as witnesses because that might cause a probe to leak.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  185. 27. Radegunda (20775b) — 12/12/2020 @ 11:52 am

    How much would you wager on Trump doing the same tomorrow?

    It’s Joe Biden who is going to make a speech on Monday night after the Electoral College votes.

    He may be studying Lincoln’s speeches toward the end of the Civil War for inspiration.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  186. He’s against God.

    Good luck with that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  187. Gov. Cuomo just got me too’ed with linday boylen doing the honors. nbc news.

    asset (d8e8db)

  188. This is Trump’s America, when an official democratic process in a state house is closed to the public because it was threatened by domestic terrorist Enemies of Democracy.

    LANSING — State House and Senate office buildings will all be closed Monday during the meeting of the Electoral College due to security concerns, an official said Monday.

    The Capitol will also be closed to the public, as was announced earlier.

    Amber McCann, a spokeswoman for Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey, R-Clarklake, said the Senate closed its facilities for Monday “based on recommendations from law enforcement.”

    “The decision was not made because of anticipated protests, but based on credible threats of violence,” McCann said late Sunday.

    Paul Montagu (b9188b)

  189. looks like hunter forgot to put a $400,000 payment(bribe?) on his 2014 taxes. nbc news. looks like they want harris president as soon as possible!

    asset (d8e8db)

  190. If there was any equivocation about prosecuting Spanky and his gang for every crime in the book and a couple of new ones, all doubt should be erased by now.

    nk (1d9030)

  191. Start invocation of the 14th Amendment and Article IV for the President to restore a republican form of government and equal protection to all US citizens. If that means military enforcement to redo the elections in the contested states then so be it. We are under a covert attack involving hostile powers. The President has a duty to act. And stay the fluck off my land.

    mg (15c28b)

  192. If you understand the Fairness Doctrine and Citizens United then you know they have zilch to do with Section 230 protections, without which YouTube wouldn’t be YouTube, meaning it wouldn’t be able to leverage the nonsense that it’s a platform not a publisher.
    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 12/13/2020 @ 8:12 am

    Shocker. You got several things wrong in a single sentence. As Popehat put it about one of your falsehoods:

    “Just a reminder that if someone trots out “they are acting like PUBLISHERS, not PLATFORMS,” they are full of sh[*]t and not under any circumstances to be trusted or taken seriously.”

    If you’re only purveying that snake oil because you credulously consumed it yourself, and if you’d like to know why it’s bullsh1t, see here. IIRC the Electronic Frontier Foundation also has a helpful explainer, but I don’t recall how many links get a comment sent to moderation here, so I’ll let you google that one yourself.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  193. I think Felipe’s hypothetical is a poor one, because moderating his position on abortion would make the GOP more, rather than less, palatable to centrists, but it may be the only thing Trump could do that would threaten the devotion of his cultists.
    Dave (1bb933) — 12/13/2020 @ 4:36 pm

    Of course we’re deep in speculation land here, but I doubt any policy flip-flop, abortion included, would endanger his cult support. The only apostasy I think would lose them is if he stopped hating the same people they hate.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  194. way. Handwritten book

    Beaconktc (1f63d0)

  195. When regular people see that happening, some get radicalized. When the rule of law is used as a cudgel instead of blindly holding all equally accountable, people will react accordingly.

    You’re absolutely right about that, NJRob. If people do not have some degree of faith that justice can happen, some will take matters into their own hands and things will just escalate from there. That’s one reason why it is so concerning that many believe the election was stolen, in addition to the weakening of police, the actual problems within policing too, etc etc. Now when you encounter some political radical who puts your community or even family in a bad situation, the normal things we tell ourselves to avoid taking action are starting to seem like jokes (to many).

    I actually would say that the democrats did take advantage of the pandemic to loosen restrictions on the kinds of voting they thought would help them, and in many states this didn’t happen via legislation. That doesn’t mean Trump is the rightful winner. he just plain isn’t. But the issue is gray enough that the worst of both sides are really damaging the country fundamentally. The solution includes an emphasis on safety and justice. We need peace while we digest this year.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  196. I agree with all that you said there Dustin. Have a good day.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  197. I agree, too.

    DRJ (aede82)

  198. If that means military enforcement to redo the elections in the contested states then so be it. We are under a covert attack involving hostile powers.

    What contested states? They’ve all been certified.
    What hostile powers? Name names, and tell us what exactly they did to “steal” this election.

    Paul Montagu (b9188b)

  199. #199

    I see 1700 votes, spread over a primary and a general election. That isn’t 12,000 votes. I also see most of these double votes were thwarted.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  200. Exactly, lurker 198.

    DRJ (aede82)

  201. I actually would say that the democrats did take advantage of the pandemic to loosen restrictions on the kinds of voting they thought would help them, and in many states this didn’t happen via legislation. That doesn’t mean Trump is the rightful winner. he just plain isn’t. But the issue is gray enough that the worst of both sides are really damaging the country fundamentally. The solution includes an emphasis on safety and justice. We need peace while we digest this year.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 12/14/2020 @ 6:00 am

    Making it easier to cast lawful votes isn’t at all comparable to what Trump is doing.
    I’m willing to stipulate that the worst GOP is morally equivalent to the worst Dem. But the worst of the GOP is being lead by Trump and supported by most of the House GOP caucus.

    It’s not at all similar in scale.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  202. Ho hum. Nothing to see here.

    I agree. Sperry noted that there were 1,736 double votes in 2020, but 1,336 of them occurred in the June primary and August run-off (link). Out of those 400 double votes in the general, an unknown percentage of those voters did so deliberately, and out of 5,178,707 votes cast, represents an illegal ballot rate of 0.008%
    The SecState office noted that, “The investigation will likely last months if not years, and decisions to prosecute double-voting will be made on a case-by-case basis.”

    Paul Montagu (b9188b)

  203. NJ Rob, I would like to see GA investigate the double voting. This seems to be the most detailed part of the article.

    Hundreds more broke the law again on Nov. 3. Results are preliminary, but investigators so far have found at least 400 cases of double voting in the presidential race. These fraudulent votes were not canceled. It’s unclear whether they favored Joe Biden or President Trump due to the secrecy of ballots. Raffensperger officially called Georgia and its 16 electoral votes for Biden last week after a third recount showed him with a razor-thin lead of 11,769 votes.

    The article makes it clear that the double voting came in 2 types.

    People who had already cast an absentee ballot and then went to vote in person.
    People who voted in person and then put a ballot in the drop box.

    I’ll point out that Trump told people to do the first one. It’s arguably an ‘honest’ error. The second seems more likely to be an attempt to vote 2 times. I’d like to see those prosecuted. I don’t think I’d want to see someone that was honestly trying to make sure their vote was counted prosecuted.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  204. Details are unclear about the total number of people who showed up at the polls on Nov. 3 despite having cast an absentee ballot by mail or drop box, but the number is estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands.

    This line in the article makes me very skeptical of everything they say. 200,000+ cases of double voting would be huge. But nowhere do they justify this estimate or explain where it came from.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  205. The irony, of course, is that we have a president who literally urged Americans to vote twice if they felt their mail-in ballots weren’t received.

    Paul Montagu (b9188b)

  206. @197: Shocker. You got several things wrong in a single sentence. As Popehat put it about one of your falsehoods:

    I’m wrong because Ken White says so. Got it. Looks like you put a ton of thought into that. Shocker.

    And, what White says is that the publisher vs. platform distinction is not one that section 230 makes regarding online content. Yes, that part is true. It simply anoints platform status to all online content, regardless of whether a site acts like a publisher, and gives to that site the protections that 230 provides — which, guess what, is exactly what I said.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  207. Also, GA did a manual recount and audit/canvas. If there was a serious double-vote issue, it would’ve turned up.

    Paul Montagu (b9188b)

  208. @211

    Akshually, Trump told his supporters, unconditionally, to commit vote fraud by voting twice:

    “Well, they’ll go out and they’ll go vote, and they’re going to have to go and check their vote by going to the poll and voting that way, because if it tabulates, then they won’t be able to do that,” Trump said on the tarmac in front of Air Force One. “So, let them send it in, and let them go vote, and if the system is as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote. If it isn’t tabulated, they won’t be able to vote. So that’s the way it is. And that’s what they should do.”

    The President later told people to send in their ballots, saying, “Send them in strong, whether it’s solicited or unsolicited. The absentees are fine. You have to work to get them, you know.”

    “And you send them in, but you go to vote. And if they haven’t counted it, you can vote. So that’s the way I feel,” he said.

    Dave (1bb933)

  209. Making it easier to cast lawful votes isn’t at all comparable to what Trump is doing.
    I’m willing to stipulate that the worst GOP is morally equivalent to the worst Dem. But the worst of the GOP is being lead by Trump and supported by most of the House GOP caucus.

    It’s not at all similar in scale.

    Time123 (b4d075) — 12/14/2020 @ 7:09 am

    Of course you’re right about that. Trump’s simply trying to steal an election he knows he lost, after failing so miserably he has to realize on some level his defeat was justified and nearly inevitable. It’s profoundly damaging to the country for our president to refuse to peacefully transition power or respect that the voters get a choice here.

    It’s one of those things that makes it hard to discuss the full topic. I do think the democrats took full advantage this year of many problems that usually wound up benefiting them politically. They weren’t that sorry to see the economy go to hell. Union vote gathering strategies line up with mail-in ballots perfectly. But both parties do try to draw districts or create rules about straight-ticket ballots (or whatever) to benefit their immeadiate success. It just got a little more shameless than usual, in the context of a crisis.

    Trump’s supporters see that cynicism and realize, hey, Team D totally would cheat if they could. They probably did cheat in ways we’ll never know about. And so they are primed when Trump and Rudy lie about some massive conspiracy with servers in Germany.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  210. The first electoral votes have been cast, and it’s Trump 11, Biden 3.

    If Biden comes back again after being so far behind, it will PROVE the whole thing is rigged.

    Dave (1bb933)

  211. Trump’s supporters see that cynicism and realize, hey, Team D totally would cheat if they could. They probably did cheat in ways we’ll never know about. And so they are primed when Trump and Rudy lie about some massive conspiracy with servers in Germany.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 12/14/2020 @ 7:33 am

    This is what’s funny, if it were easy to cheat, both parties would do it. The fact that it’s hard is why they don’t.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  212. And, what White says is that the publisher vs. platform distinction is not one that section 230 makes regarding online content. Yes, that part is true. It simply anoints platform status to all online content, regardless of whether a site acts like a publisher, and gives to that site the protections that 230 provides — which, guess what, is exactly what I said.

    It gives them protection for content they didn’t create, but I think that’s what you meant.

    My question is, what do you want to do and what does it look like for the internet after you make that change?

    The problem we had before was that platforms were doing no content moderation in order to avoid liability associated with their decisions. If that’s not what you want to go back to, what’s your solution?

    Time123 (b0628d)

  213. There’s cheating and then there’s cheating. When Texas says no more straight-ticket ballots, because that will help them win more, that’s not cheating, and when each side play games with drop boxes to make it easier or harder to vote, or potentially more or less secure, I guess that’s not cheating, and really if Trump says ‘hey vote twice and if everything works you won’t have really voted twice’ isn’t cheating if you take it at face value. though all of that is inconsistent and cynical, and I have a problem with it.

    Cheating where the Chinese hack the servers hidden in Germany and a dump truck of ballots crashes through the convention center like the Kool Aid Man is indeed not real. It just takes a bit of blurring the narrative to get a lot of people to worry though, because as you say, the only reason professional political operatives don’t cheat is because it’s too hard. We have a real lack of character in our political parties.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  214. Yes, Dave. Trump has electoral vote lead in the count so far today. File suit now, Donald. Electoral vote lead that he now has must mean a gazillion to one chance of losing. Or something.

    noel (9fead1)

  215. An interview with Donald Trump taped Saturday at th Army Navy game was just aired on WABC radio 77 AM.

    Trump claims he won, and he didn’t win by a little, he won by a lot. He says he got 12 million more votes than in 2016 (75 million versus 63 million) the most of any president, and the greatest increase ever in votes of a president running for re-election and [they said/he was told] that if he got 67 million votes he would win. He said he got calls from “the pros” on Election Night congratulating him for having won but he told them it is too soon (to declare victory?)

    He said local Democrats fooled Republican election officials and that the cheating happened (mainly) in five cities.

    He complained that his case was not allowed to be heard because of standing – the great state of Texas and the president of the United States had no standing.

    He claimed that what you could call the ballot box was stuffed with hundreds of thousands of votes.

    Now the fact of the matter is, you can’t do that. Every vote must be assigned to a precinct and to A REGISTERED VOTER. Even if he’s dead there’s a limited number of such people.

    Every voter must be signed in, either at a polling place or after the absentee ballot is received and the signatures must match, at least approximately, and nobody can make a plausible forgery without a sample, which a stranger mailing in a ballot doesn’t have, and also even if they see a genuine signature, few people can do it quickly, and without practice. And at a polling place the total number of people who voted there that day is recorded immediately.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  216. they are primed when Trump and Rudy lie about some massive conspiracy with servers in Germany

    Trump repeatedly primed his base to believe that the election would be rife with fraud, and that if he lost, it could only be through fraud. He told his base to distrust voting by mail, and thus contributed to the election-day leads that were reversed when mail-in ballots were counted, so he could screech about late ballot dumps. And by telling his base to vote twice, he probably contributed to the evidence of (some) fraud that he could later complain about.

    And he refused to commit to accepting the election results until he saw what the results were.

    The idea that Trump is fighting for election integrity is farcical.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  217. Trump claims he won, and he didn’t win by a little, he won by a lot.

    It amazes me to see some people who aren’t exactly stupid refusing to acknowledge that Trump is exhibiting delusional narcissism on a level that is not conducive to responsible leadership.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  218. The electors all vote today but not at the same time. The earliest is at 10 am EST but most vote in the afternoon. California votes at 5pm Eastern time (2 pm Pacific time.)

    Most states will livestream the voting. The locations in some cases have been changed from the earlier planned, sometimes because of Covid and sometimes because of threats or fear of threats or demonstrations. In Michigan they will use a secret entrance to avoid protesters. In Nevada it will be a virtual meeting but that is the only sate where it will be virtual.

    The Electors cannot hold any federal office at the time. They are usually obscure party loyalists (in Delaware one Elector will be the person who gave up his seat on the New Castle city council in the year when Joe Biden ran for the job. He’s 88 years old, and might not go to the inauguration both because of Covid and because of age.)

    In New York State some of them tend to be prominent people. Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton and Andrew Cuomo are electors but not New York City mayor Bill de Blasio.

    https://www.syracuse.com/politics/2020/12/no-legal-way-around-it-cuomo-says-nys-electoral-college-to-vote-in-person.html

    Cuomo said he considered trying to find a way to vote virtually by going to a court, but he didn’t want any more litigation.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  219. Michael Flynn recently said: “I will tell you one more time—because I’ve been asked—on a scale of one to ten, who will be the next president of the United States, and I say Donald Trump. Ten. A ten.” Before that, he embraced “limited martial law” to settle the election.

    National Security Advisor? This is the guy Trump put in that position? The guy he pardoned and still stands behind, today?

    We need to try really hard to absorb this. Just how alarming it is. And why so many Americans aren’t concerned at all. How did this showman from New York get us here so fast?

    noel (9fead1)

  220. @194-
    looks like hunter forgot to put a $400,000 payment(bribe?) on his 2014 taxes. nbc news. looks like they want harris president as soon as possible!

    What??? Hunter Biden is President????

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  221. @199-
    Didn’t Trump encourage double voting?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  222. Section 230! Section 230! Section 230! Whine! Whine! Whine! Whine! Snivel! Snivel! Snivel!

    Is the ability to sue somebody for defamation one of them there unalienable rights that governments are established to protect? Or are freedom of speech, the press, and of association them there protected rights, and when Congress passed Section 230 it intended to strengthen them and not to trade them off for a glass of orange Kool-Aid?

    nk (1d9030)

  223. The idea that Trump is fighting for election integrity is farcical.

    Radegunda (20775b) — 12/14/2020 @ 8:18 am

    Of course. It’s actually amusing because after Trump’s 2016 freakout that the election was rigged, he did nothing about election integrit. It serves Trump’s purpose that there are doubts about election security. It makes him smile when there’s a story about some isolated cheater, because he needs that narrative. The last thing a guy like Trump wants is an inherently secure election.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  224. The New York Times (an others) had a story about what happens when the votes are counted in Congress, although the New York Times made one error (there;s no way the Senate on January 6 can be split 50-50 with Mike Pence,still vice president, casting the tie breaking vote because the results from the Georgia election on January 5 won’t be certified by then. The Senate will be split 50-49 in favor of the Republicans because Senator David Perdue’s term will have expired, but Kelly Loeffler will still have her temporary appointment.

    Everything goes according to protocol set by law. here will be a joint session of Congress in the House chamber, starting at 1 pm Eastern Standard Time. Mike Pence is in the Speaker’s chair. Nancy Pelosi sits to his left. Four tellers, two each from the House and the Senate st at clerk’s desks.

    Mike Pence will open the certificates in alphabetical order (Alabama goes first, Alaska second) and announce the result in each state. When Joe Biden reaches 270 he will announce that, but the count will continue until every vote is counted.

    After the a tabulation is complete, members can object to any votes. The objection must be in writing and must include at least one member of the House and one member of the Senate. The House is sure to have one, (Rep. Mo Brooks, R-Ala. has said he would and the Qanon liking representative from Georgia pr somebody else might step if he withdraws) and for the Senate, maybe Senator Cotton (R-Ark)

    This has happened only two times since the Electoral Count Act was passed in 1887, once in 1969 and once in 2005. The New York Times does not explain further but the fact that is not remembered would indicate that it was only a few members. (NBC says the objection in 1969 was over a faithless elector – which would be the Republican Elector from North Carolina who voted for George Wallace – and in 2005 it was over the outcome in Ohio. (excluding Ohio would either have created a contingent election or still resulted in a win for Bush based on a total of 518, not 538, with only 260 needed to win. Or, if the result could have been reversed – impossible I think without a competing slate – a John Kerry win.)

    After the objection(s) is/are made, the House and the Senate will split to debate the objection(s) Separately for each objection? The debate will last for a maximum of two hours. Each speaker will be limited to five minutes. How the time will be allocated if more than 12 on each side want to speak I don’t know.

    Then each House of Congress will vote. The House will uphold the vote, except that, if Trump’s fight is still going on, the Republicans maybe will ask for the vote to be taken by states, the Parliamentarian will deny that and then that will be put to a vote and lose before the objection losing. In the Senate almost every Republican Senator, including Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Mitt Romney would have to vote to agree with the objection. Both the Senate and the House must agree in order to sustain an objection.

    This will make for interesting to watch political theater, something Mitch McConnell will not want to see happen.

    The question is, will Donald Trump force Mitch McConnell (and others) to openly break with him or will this whole thing be over in a few minutes (assuming that Mitch McConnell cannot prevent at least one Republican Senator from raising an objection. Probably only Donald Trump can do that.)

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  225. French on the conservative legal culture. Trump picked Federalist Society judges, perhaps not realizing they’re not in the category of Roy Cohn or Better Call Saul.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  226. @230, Trump will want that. He’ll push for the objection to help further the lie that the election was stolen.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  227. Oh, come on! You’re praising Trump with faint damns. The Putin puppet was counting on Louis DeJoy, his Postmaster General, to make sure no mail-in ballot made it to a single voter or back to the boards of election, and the insubordinate and disloyal DeJoy let him down, with the help of all those insubordinate and disloyal mailmen.

    nk (1d9030)

  228. @218: My question is, what do you want to do and what does it look like for the internet after you make that change?

    The problem we had before was that platforms were doing no content moderation in order to avoid liability associated with their decisions. If that’s not what you want to go back to, what’s your solution?

    YouTube, FB and T do their moderation via algorithms and AI, and that will only advance further in the near term. Look at how quickly certain content is taken down (e.g., the Hunter Biden laptop story). Do you think a staff of humans is doing all that? It’s not 1995 anymore. So, they are getting the best of both worlds now. They can easily moderate, yet they are given protections under the law as if they can’t.

    The government shouldn’t be picking winners are losers, and that’s what 230 does.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  229. The local paper addresses five of the Georgia conspiracies making the rounds.

    https://www.ajc.com/politics/5-georgia-election-fraud-claims-explained/HG7LECMRRZGBNH6VNLYI4H5R6A/

    Appalled (1a17de)

  230. 219. Dustin (4237e0) — 12/14/2020 @ 7:58 am

    ‘hey vote twice and if everything works you won’t have really voted twice’ isn’t cheating

    Only in New York, at least for now, although they may change the law, because in-person votes take priority, and they don;t start counting the absentee ballots until after the polls have closed, and then they usually don;t do it right away but (in New York City at least) they first wait a week until all absentee ballots that are going to be accepted have arrived. That’s why it took two or three weeks to get the results.

    In states where the absentee ballots take priority, it is possible for the pollworkers to make a mistake. However, every person mailed an absentee ballot is supposed to be taken off the poll site list. I some states that is irreversible, but in others, a person can vote in person if they bring in their unused absentee ballot. Or they may cast a provisional vote, which will be counted if the absentee ballot does not arrive in time (although many states have instituted tracking to help let people know) or was disqualified because of, say, missing a signature, or a date in some cases, or in Pennsylvania, the extra internal ballot secrecy envelope.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  231. I’m wrong because Ken White says so. Got it. Looks like you put a ton of thought into that. Shocker.

    No, you’re wrong for the reasons in the techdirt post I linked.

    And, what White says

    The post is by Mike Masnick, not Ken White.

    is that the publisher vs. platform distinction is not one that section 230 makes regarding online content. Yes, that part is true.

    Agreed

    It simply anoints platform status to all online content, regardless of whether a site acts like a publisher, and gives to that site the protections that 230 provides

    That’s the crux of what Masnick explained is not true. If that’s what you took from it, I can’t help you.

    — which, guess what, is exactly what I said.

    Yeah, because what you said is wrong.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  232. 235. We need more of this.

    But this isn’t thorough enough.

    allegedly shows Fulton County election workers pulled suitcases of ballots from beneath a table after Republican Party poll watchers were told to leave.

    For this to work as a method of cheating, they would have had to sneak out an identical number of genuine ballots too, which also would have to match in style (offices voted for) and this would have had to have been the first count.

    And a lot of people would have had to have been involved.

    In Georgia this year ballots were not filled out by hand but by Dominion ballot marking devices (that’s all they do, mark the ballots, not count them – they are counted by a separate machine, I don;t know f they are made by Dominion also) so somebody would have had to have access to BMDs before Election Day and hired people to laboriously cast a large number of votes (or would this be done by volunteers?)

    They are not only marked for optical scanning but the names of the candidates voted for are printed on the ballot. And you;d surely have statistical anomalies.

    Absentee ballot applications requested through the state’s website were verified with driver’s license numbers instead of signatures.

    If they fraudulently requested absentee ballots, wouldn’t there be a significant number of duplicate requests, even if they tried to limit it to recently deceased, or moved or inactive voters? And wouldn’t they be mailed to the address on record, not somewhere else, unless now maybe you’ve got the postal worker in on the scheme or you’ve got somebody at the election board to intercept them all before they go into the mail? And wouldn’t there be numerous complaints? Either about not receiving absentee ballots or at the polls? Did that happen??

    All of these accusations are like claiming evidence of part of an election stealing scheme without any signs of any of the other necessary parts of the scheme showing up even after they are on the alert to look for it.

    Trump gained 37 votes during a hand recount and audit, but that doesn’t mean any votes were flipped.

    Wasn’t that mostly from votes not counted the first time, not from votes read differently the second time?

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  233. The government shouldn’t be picking winners are losers, and that’s what 230 does.

    Count this website as a winner; per our host, if 230 is repealed, it goes away.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  234. @218: My question is, what do you want to do and what does it look like for the internet after you make that change?

    The problem we had before was that platforms were doing no content moderation in order to avoid liability associated with their decisions. If that’s not what you want to go back to, what’s your solution?

    YouTube, FB and T do their moderation via algorithms and AI, and that will only advance further in the near term. Look at how quickly certain content is taken down (e.g., the Hunter Biden laptop story). Do you think a staff of humans is doing all that? It’s not 1995 anymore. So, they are getting the best of both worlds now. They can easily moderate, yet they are given protections under the law as if they can’t.

    The government shouldn’t be picking winners are losers, and that’s what 230 does.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 12/14/2020 @ 9:28 am

    You didn’t really answer my question. Before Section 230 platforms that wanted to avoid liability had to refrain from any moderation at all. That allowed them to claim to be a common carrier. If YT, FB and T want to avoid liability they’ll likely have to go back to that. Is that your desired outcome? If not, what are you proposing?

    I don’t understand how 230 allows the government to pick winners and losers, but that’s a separate question.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  235. Time123 (b0628d) — 12/14/2020 @ 10:17 am

    Before Section 230 platforms that wanted to avoid liability had to refrain from any moderation at all. That allowed them to claim to be a common carrier. If YT, FB and T want to avoid liability they’ll likely have to go back to that. Is that your desired outcome?

    It might be Trump’s.

    Another alternative is not to allow any user generated material to be uploaded other than the equivalent of “Letters to the Editor.”

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  236. Michigan House punishes GOP Rep. Gary Eisen for hinting at Electoral College disruption

    Michigan Republican legislative leaders pulled a GOP lawmaker from his committee assignments Monday after the lawmaker hinted he was part of a group that sought to disrupt or otherwise undermine the Electoral College vote slated to happen at the Capitol this afternoon.

    Rep. Gary Eisen, R-St. Clair Township, made the comments Monday morning during an interview with Port Huron-area radio station WPHM. He was asked about the Electoral College, set to meet Monday in the state Senate chamber to cast the state’s 16 electoral votes for President-elect Joe Biden.

    Eisen made the comments in the context of he and others in Lansing having some sort of event, either at the Capitol or somewhere else. He said he could not rule out the possibility of violence.

    Eisen also made reference to a threat he said was received regarding safety at the Capitol. He questioned the veracity of threat, however, calling it “convenient” and implying it would impede efforts for Trump supporters to contest the Electoral College proceedings.
    …….
    Paul Miller, the radio host who interviewed Eisen, asked the lawmaker to elaborate on his comments several times. Miller said what the lawmaker described sounded dangerous. When Miller asked whether Eisen could ensure people would not get hurt, Eisen said no.

    “No. I don’t know. Because what we’re doing today is uncharted. It hasn’t been done. And it’s not me who’s doing it…it’s the Michigan Republican Party,” Eisen said.
    …….
    “So they’re going to lock us out of our offices, they’re going to lock us out of the Capitol,” Eisen said during the roughly 11-minute interview.

    “How convenient is that, when they’re going to sit electors today, so that we can’t support our options. Whether it was true or not, we don’t know.”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  237. You didn’t really answer my question. Before Section 230 platforms that wanted to avoid liability had to refrain from any moderation at all. That allowed them to claim to be a common carrier. If YT, FB and T want to avoid liability they’ll likely have to go back to that. Is that your desired outcome? If not, what are you proposing?

    My answer was that they won’t go back to that, because they’ve shown they can moderate at will. If they fear lawsuits because of harm brought by their content, I’m not understanding why that’s bad. If they want to pretend it’s an either or, meaning without 230 they won’t moderate anything, then that’s silly, but again why is that bad? It seems to mirror the default stance that more speech is better.

    I don’t have a desired outcome. Back before the internet, I guess I wanted the NYT to print every letter to the editor written to them, but they didn’t. Who cares about desired outcomes? That’s not how it works.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  238. 231. Mark Steyn (substituting for Rush Limbaugh) gave two cynical reasons why the Supreme Court didn’t take up the cases, the second one less admirable than the first.

    1. They are afraid that if they did, there’d be a reaction and Georgia would vote for two Democratic Senators and there’d be court packing and they wanted to protect the court (Doesn’t this assume the majority of the court would rule against Trump or that whatever it did would not reverse the election?)

    Amy Comey Barrett has children in school and she was afraid of harassment.

    I assume he’s getting this from some place.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  239. 243. Section 230 allows moderation without accepting full responsibility for the content.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  240. Kilmeade Confronts Stephen Miller on Trump Lawsuits: ‘Do You Have the Worst Legal Team?’
    …….
    “You have an alternate slate of electors in a state like say Wisconsin or in a state like Georgia and we’ll make sure that those results are sent up side by side to Congress,” Miller declared. “So that we have the opportunity, every day between now and January 20, to say that slate of electors and the contested states is the slate that should be certified to uphold a fair and free election and an honest result.”
    …….
    Kilmeade, who confronted Trump over the weekend about his legal team’s failure to provide any proof of election fraud in court, then pressed Miller on the resounding defeats that Trump and his allies have suffered in court.

    “Stephen, so if there were underage people voting and criminals voting, if there was illegal ballots cast, your legal team [has], in almost every state, 50 times lost, so do you have the worst legal team who just don’t seem to be presenting a good case? Or [are] you just too late in this case should have been brought before the election?” Kilmeade wondered aloud.

    Miller, meanwhile, blamed the repeated rejection of Trump’s legal challenges on the “corrupt corporate media” placing “overwhelming” pressure on the courts and elected officials.

    “It is overwhelming and so yes, judges are caving,” Miller groused. “Yes, politicians are caving. We need heroes to step up and do the right thing.”

    The Trump aide would go on to claim that the Trump team has not been allowed to conduct a “forensic analysis” to show that “illegal aliens and dead people voted,” adding that the Trump campaign had even “tweeted out the names and pictures of the dead people that voted in this election.”

    Miller, however, did not mention that after Team Trump tweeted out the of four Georgia voters they claimed were deceased when votes were fraudulently cast in their identities, news outlets discovered that three of those people were very much alive.
    ……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  241. I assume he’s getting this from some place.

    His rear end.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  242. Former FDA Director Scott Gottlieb: Trump Administration Declined More Pfizer Vaccines as Recently as November

    Former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb, now on the board of Pfizer, said that the United States was offered more of the company’s successful coronavirus vaccine as recently as November — but didn’t take the deal.

    “There were multiple conversations with the U.S. government about taking more supply in the second quarter” of 2021, Gottlieb said. “The company wasn’t taken up on the offer as recently as November.”

    The federal government said those discussions happened in July. Now they’re saying they happened in October. So we’re getting closer to when I think the last discussions were, which was November. In the interim, other countries have put in orders for those supplies. I think they’re going to work this out. I think hopefully we’ll find a way to increase supply and be able to get the government what the government needs. This is an American company, we want to work with the U.S. government. But this has been a challenging process because there have been multiple conversations happening as recently as November, and now they’re coming back and wanting to restart those conversations when other commitments have been made in the interim.

    …….
    Dereliction of duty.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  243. My answer was that they won’t go back to that, because they’ve shown they can moderate at will. If they fear lawsuits because of harm brought by their content, I’m not understanding why that’s bad. If they want to pretend it’s an either or, meaning without 230 they won’t moderate anything, then that’s silly, but again why is that bad? It seems to mirror the default stance that more speech is better.

    First, it’s not their content, it’s content provided by other people.
    Second, it’s not just limited to political speech and ideas.
    Third, if their system fails and they let through say, revenge porn, a deep-fake of a non-public figure committing bestiality, a post that accuses a non-public figuring of running a business that rips off their customers then section 230 offers them some protection. Prior to that one of the ways to avoid liability was to just let all that stuff go and claim to be a common carrier.

    I expect they might try to keep their platforms much as their are, but I don’t think they’ve demonstrated an ability to moderate as well as you claim.

    I don’t have a desired outcome. Back before the internet, I guess I wanted the NYT to print every letter to the editor written to them, but they didn’t. Who cares about desired outcomes? That’s not how it works.

    When I asked about desired outcomes i meant what rules would you put in place in stead. I sounds like you’re proposing that the platform would also be liable for anything they hosted.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  244. 231. Mark Steyn (substituting for Rush Limbaugh) gave two cynical reasons why the Supreme Court didn’t take up the cases, the second one less admirable than the first.

    1. They are afraid that if they did, there’d be a reaction and Georgia would vote for two Democratic Senators and there’d be court packing and they wanted to protect the court (Doesn’t this assume the majority of the court would rule against Trump or that whatever it did would not reverse the election?)

    Amy Comey Barrett has children in school and she was afraid of harassment.

    I assume he’s getting this from some place.

    The first is a bit silly, I don’t think it likely the dems will try to pack the court with a 1 vote margin. I don’t think they have the votes for it.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  245. Without Section 230, only Russia-based platforms which can only be sued in a Russian court will contain content from the general public. When you hear these “arguments”, comrades, always consider the source. Always consider the source.

    nk (1d9030)

  246. Isn’t Mark Steyn a Canadian?

    nk (1d9030)

  247. I think Mark Steyn lives in Vermont or New Hampshire but he is originally from Canada, and he is still a Canadian citizen.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  248. Dr. Scott Gottlieb, now on the board of Pfizer, said that the United States was offered more of the company’s successful coronavirus vaccine as recently as November — but didn’t take the deal.

    They didn’t want to place all their bets on one horse. There are six vaccines somewhere in the pipeline. And maybe, indeed, they always thought they’d get the first opportunity to buy. It’s probably a complicated story.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)

  249. 21. Dana (cc9481) — 12/12/2020 @ 11:16 am

    But seriously, California???

    In California, the Republican Party is moribund, and maybe disgraced, and you have a jungle primary. The only thing you need is a way for people elected to legislative office not to be totally frozen out, and an independent source of money – which means some campaign finance unreform. That might have to be done by initiative.

    You also need to have someone who can counsel rejection of the some people who try to tag along pr infiltrate and make it crazy – but there are no party primaries in California anyway except for the national presidential conventions and maybe party office (although I think candidates may control the party machinery)

    The kind of a party Kevin talks about won’t work.

    It should be mostly, or by default, for the status quo, with some tilt toward market like systems rather than flat out regulation (i.e. “cap and trade” is better than regulation) but mostly it should advertise itself as home for contrarian thinkers – but reasonable ones who can argue their case.

    There are dozens of things it could tend to oppose and support. The candidates wouldn’t all need to agree with each other.

    It should recruit retired millionaires, but only really good ones and might organize itself around a candidate for governor.

    An initiative for Dollar for dollar rebates on campaign contributions, up to a set limit, might be a good idea.

    Sammy Finkelman (26a080)


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