Trump Says No To Renaming Army Installations Named After Confederate Officers
[guest post by Dana]
As the George Floyd protests continue across the nation, there has been a renewed push to rename U.S. military installations that are named after Confederate leaders. David Petraeus explained why he thinks the time is right to make such a change:
As I have watched Confederate monuments being removed by state and local governments, and sometimes by the forceful will of the American people, the fact that 10 U.S. Army installations are named for Confederate officers has weighed on me.
…
The United States is now wrestling with repeated instances of abusive policing caught on camera, the legacies of systemic racism, the challenges of protecting freedoms enshrined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights while thwarting criminals who seek to exploit lawful protests, and debates over symbols glorifying those who fought for the Confederacy in the Civil War. The way we resolve these issues will define our national identity for this century and beyond. Yesterday afternoon, an Army spokesperson said that Secretary of the Army Ryan McCarthy is now “open to a bipartisan discussion” on renaming the bases. That’s the right call. Once the names of these bases are stripped of the obscuring power of tradition and folklore, renaming the installations becomes an easy, even obvious, decision.
…
For an organization designed to win wars to train for them at installations named for those who led a losing force is sufficiently peculiar, but when we consider the cause for which these officers fought, we begin to penetrate the confusion of Civil War memory. These bases are, after all, federal installations, home to soldiers who swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. The irony of training at bases named for those who took up arms against the United States, and for the right to enslave others, is inescapable to anyone paying attention. Now, belatedly, is the moment for us to pay such attention. [emphasis added]
…
Plainly put, Lee, Bragg, and the rest committed treason, however much they may have agonized over it.* The majority of them had worn the uniform of the U.S. Army, and that Army should not brook any celebration of those who betrayed their country.
The quest to rename these installations is not new. Back in 2015 after Dylann Roof opened fire at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in South Carolina, the Pentagon was pressed to remove the names of Confederate leaders from its facilities, but it was a no-go. Here was how the Pentagon justified the decision at the time:
“These historic names represent individuals, not causes or ideologies. It should be noted that the naming occurred in the spirit of reconciliation, not division,” said Brigadier General Malcolm Frost, the Army’s spokesman at the time.
[But can you really separate the individual from their cause or ideology? Doesn’t that which makes up the individual (foundational beliefs, principles, etc) determine or inform which ideology one might hold, or the causes they choose to support?]
Further:
Three years ago, following a rally of white supremacists and neo-Nazis in Charlottesville, Va., a Democratic lawmaker from New York, Rep. Yvette Clarke, introduced a bill requiring the defense secretary to change the names of installations “named after individuals who took up arms against the US in the Civil War.”
The Army had no comment that year.
In 2017, the Congressional Research Service looked into the issue. “The Department of the Army has no formal administrative process for renaming military installations,” it said. “Proponents of renaming the bases contend that there are noteworthy national military leaders from other conflicts who demonstrated selfless service and sacrifice. Opponents of renaming these installations cite the bureaucracy of creating a new review process and the difficulty of satisfying the various viewpoints over which names (if any) would be selected as subjects of contention.”
But the times are indeed changing: Both the Navy and the Marine Corps are already making changes that reflect concerns about the Confederate battle flag at military facilities:
Marine Commandant General David Berger last week prohibited the display of the Confederate battle flag at Marine installations — including on mugs, posters and bumper stickers.
…Navy Cmdr. Nate Christensen… said…, “The Chief of Naval Operations, Adm. Mike Gilday, has directed his staff to begin crafting an order that would prohibit the Confederate battle flag from all public spaces and work areas aboard Navy installations, ships, aircraft and submarines. The order is meant to ensure unit cohesion, preserve good order and discipline, and uphold the Navy’s core values of honor, courage and commitment.”
And while Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy and Defense Secretary Mark Esper have said they are open to the possibility of renaming the 10 Army installations, President Trump tweeted this morning, emphatically saying that the installations named after Confederate leaders would not be renamed:
–Dana
Make sure to read the entirety of David Petraeus’s essay at The Atlantic. A lot of good history and detail in it.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:12 pmNever expected Trump would do such a thing. It would alienate too many of his base.
Rip Murdock (a217ed) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:15 pmIt seems a curious move by Trump until you consider that, while he claims to love the military (and they certainly turned out for him during the election), he has also alienated the military with his attacks on John McCain, Gold Star families, and now Jim Mattis. (I’m sure there are more.) And that’s the thing with Trump, he is a spasm of emotions, running hot and cold, taking every little thing personally, flying off the handle and attacking any that he believes have wronged him. Even those he claims to hold in high esteem. But all of his endorsements and praise go by the wayside if he feels the beneficiaries of his love have attacked or betrayed him. IOW, our president is a junior high school mean girl, and no one whom he praises should trust that it means anything, because it doesn’t. Not really.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:24 pmWhile I do find Patraeus’ essay compelling… I find myself disagreeing with the idea of renaming these military bases.
The post-Civil War and the Reconcilation-Reconstruction era took great pains to ensure that the former confederates were still Americans, even though they were thoroughly defeated.
If you know history, naming these bases after the confederate generals wasn’t about some white supremacist sending side-wink signals that the confederates were right. It was about extending a measure of grace to your fellow man after the horror and tragedy of the Civil War.
That.
Is the message the woke-cancer mobs is missing.
whembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:28 pmWe can start by naming army bases after real heroes like john brown and nat turner.
asset (ad3acd) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:30 pmI’m fine with re-naming these bases, even if I don’t feel strongly that we need to to it now. These were terrible men. We can’t know what’s in the heart of another. But the actions these men took were to perpetuate slavery. These were of the leaders of a movement that existed specifically to keep Slavery and killed 10’s of thousands to do it. I’ll quote Confederate VP Stephens because he spells out why they succeeded.
This is what the solders were fighting to create. I assume they knew this. But maybe they didn’t. Either way, i don’t have a problem with taking down statues and memorials of the people that lead the confederacy.
It’s an even easier call when so many of the memorials were set up after the way specifically and explicitly to support 20th century white supremacy. Many of them weren’t historical markers, but part of a propaganda campaign of oppressing black people.
Time123 (457a1d) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:30 pmWhembly, These bases were not named during the re-construction to help heal the wounds of the civil war. They were named to court support from the Lost Causers. It wasn’t about healing.
Time123 (457a1d) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:33 pmIf I read Trump correctly, his problem is the name change, since Fort Benning and Fort Bragg have reputations apart from whatever Confederate General gave their name to the joint. He’s not invested in seeing that Braxton Bragg (one of the Civil War’s great idiots) is honored properly.
Appalled (1a17de) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:34 pmFort Bragg–Braxton Bragg
Fort Benning–Henry L. Benning
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:44 pmIt was about extending a measure of grace to your fellow man after the horror and tragedy of the Civil War.
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:44 pmThe evidence for that is what?
Let’s go ahead and rename everything.
Once we get all the window dressing out of the way, maybe we’ll have nothing left to do except discuss real solutions.
beer ‘n pretzels (040c48) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:45 pmFort Lee would be easy to do. Name it after Revolutionary War general “Light Horse” Harry Lee. (For those that don’t know, he was Robert E.’s father.)
Kishnevi (e82f46) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:47 pm@10 Oodles of history books describes the post-conflict amnesty, reintegration, and reconciliation post Civil War.
Pick one.
whembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:48 pmWe close bases named after historic generals so that they don’t even exist any more and that isn’t seen as harmful. But somehow removing the traitor’s names from military bases and calling them something else would be? It isn’t like saying “I…trained at…Ft. Benning!” is a phrase that strikes fear into the enemy’s heart.
It’s just pandering to his base, like everything else he does.
Nic (896fdf) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:51 pm(sorry forgot to close my italics tag after close 😛 )
Nic (896fdf) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:51 pm@11
It will never be enough…
whembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:52 pmOne suggestion has been to rename this installations after Medal of Honor recipients.
Dana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:53 pmYour point about reconstruction is generally correct, but not specifically correct for these bases. Ft. Bragg wasn’t built until 1918 and wasn’t part of any re-construction efforts. Camp Lee was opened 1917 and Ft Hood in 1942. I think reconstruction was well over by 1942.
Time123 (d1bf33) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:58 pmWho said that?
And we’re forced to keep the name of some bases because we care about dead losers and traitors?
Maybe we should rename the Naval Submarine Base New London, that’s a terrible name, to the Naval Base Benedict Arnold.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:01 pmObama wasn’t even this radical when he had the chance. But the erasure of history that doesn’t comply with the woke must continue. Enjoy your re-education camps.
NJRob (49852a) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:03 pmTo me, Petraeus’ reasoning is unassailable.
Paul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:05 pmIt does seem more than a little nuts that the bases are named after Confederates who deliberately and consciously welshed on their oaths to defend Constitution and country. They can be memorialized in other ways. Some of the them fought bravely and honorably, but it was still for a dishonorable cause.
Also, I can’t help but think about all the Americans who joined the military or are wanting to join our military, with ancestors who were American slaves with no rights, and that those bases are named after Confederates who fought on the side of permanently holding those Americans as chattel.
20… well said, Rob.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:11 pm“reconciliation” was the argument made to the north and this started about 1911. It couldn’t have happened before, but the Grand Army of the Republic was fading as a political force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manassas_Peace_Jubilee
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:12 pm13… sorry, whembly… ms. crabapple says C+.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:14 pmBreaking-NASCAR bans Confederate flags at racetracks
…….NASCAR communications put out the following statement Wednesday:
“The presence of the Confederate flag at NASCAR events runs contrary to our commitment to providing a welcoming and inclusive environment for all fans, our competitors and our industry. Bringing people together around a love for racing and the community that it creates is what makes our fans and sport special. The display of the Confederate flag will be prohibited from all NASCAR events and properties.”
…….
NASCAR’s next race is Wednesday night at Martinsville Speedway in Virginia. Richard Petty Motorsports announced Tuesday that Wallace would drive a car with a Black Lives Matter paint scheme in the race to promote racial equality.
There goes their fan base. Of course, who wants to see races with only left turns?
Rip Murdock (a217ed) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:14 pmThe act that these names lasted so long, way past the 1960s, goes to show you that nobody really pays attention to names of places.
Sammy Finkelman (fe9fb2) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:14 pmI am not sure most people remembered or ever knew that Fort Benning was named after a Confederate General. Since the guy it was named after lived in Columbus GA, the Columbus Rotary Club suggested (in 1918) they name it after the local famous guy. Fort Bragg was named after the local Confederate General
Per this article:
https://today.duke.edu/2017/08/what-about-military-bases-renaming-fort-bragg
Trump’s argument bothers me less than most of his rants. I’m not sure racism/police brutality in Minneapolis means we have to immediately root out every memorial to the Confederacy, particularly the most forgotten ones.
Appalled (1a17de) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:15 pmRename them after heroic Black Panthers and 60’s radicals and be done with it.
Put the cherry on top of the Democrat sundae!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:17 pm@1313-
@10 Oodles of history books describes the post-conflict amnesty, reintegration, and reconciliation post Civil War.
Pick one.
Rip Murdock (a217ed) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:17 pmIn other words, you made it up.
Maybe we should rename the Naval Submarine Base New London, that’s a terrible name, to the Naval Base Benedict Arnold.
I don’t think Arnold owned slaves. It today’s zeitgeist, how does he rank compared to the man he betrayed, George Washington?
beer ‘n pretzels (7375f7) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:18 pmAfter all the grievances are aired, perhaps we can get back to being an America worth saving.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:20 pm@29
No.
I’m not doing work for you… only to tell you that things aren’t always what they seem.
There’s a whole library on the subject of Pre/Post Civil War.
whembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:22 pmBut that’s growing increasingly unlikely as each day and moronic action passes.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:22 pmBreaking…
I don’t give a rip.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:24 pmIsn’t the naming of military posts a perk of Congress, rather than the “Commander in Chief” ? Like all the West Virginia federal buildings named for Scoop Jackson?
I can easily imagine that Congress would rather have somebody — anybody — else take the political heat on the question. But seems to me the BRAC process would work just as well on names as places.
pouncer (b0e023) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:24 pm“Light Horse” Harry Lee. (For those that don’t know, he was Robert E.’s father.)
Later in life. aka “Swindling Harry Lee”.
Matador (0284e8) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:25 pmDana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 1:53 pm
I think this is a good idea and I’d be in favor of this on any given day, except maybe today. I’m not in favor of appeasing the unappeasable.
Should we also give the states that rebelled new names? Or erase and rewrite the boundaries so they are new states? How does allowing Alabama to still exist not perpetuate racism? What about people named Lee? Or all of the Jackson counties? Is there a point where it’s reasonable to say that we’ve changed enough?
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:27 pm@18
Reconciliation was a looooooooong process in the South. Grant, I don’t know the rationale for naming Ft Hood, but Ft Bragg was definitely part of it.
Furthermore, I’m just sitting here wondering why any white people think banning flags and renaming military bases is going to placate the woke mob.
Isn’t it patronizing??
whembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:28 pmRename them after heroic Black Panthers and 60’s radicals and be done with it.
The original Black Panthers were an all African American tank battalion in WWII, so it wouldn’t be a bad name for Fort Hood, where they trained.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/761st_Tank_Battalion_(United_States)?wprov=sfti1
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, yes the Lakers center, penned a book about them.
beer ‘n pretzels (7375f7) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:30 pm@35
Not really… unless Congress is willing to overcome a veto. (frankly, I don’t see Trump vetoing such a bill if the bases were renamed after MoH recipients).
whembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:31 pmNo.
I’m not doing work for you… only to tell you that things aren’t always what they seem.
There’s a whole library on the subject of Pre/Post Civil War.
You made an assertion of fact, one that is very specific. You should be able to provide some sort of documentation, instead of pulling out or your ……
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:32 pmLike what #27 did.
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:33 pm@41 lmgtfy:
whembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:39 pmhttps://lmgtfy.com/?q=post+civil+war+reconciliation
“@41 lmgtfy:
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=post+civil+war+reconciliation”
Sounds pretty crappy to me.
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:45 pmwhembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:28 pm
I don’t think so. This would be patronizing if, for example, Trump came up with the idea to rename the bases out of the blue. Patronizing is something done by someone who considers themselves superior for someone they consider inferior.
The base renaming was originally a demand made to mitigate a grievance.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:53 pmConfederate Generals are chosen to honor the Confederacy which was a movement to preserve and extend a slave republic. There is no actual reason why military bases that are supposed to represent something good about this country should be named after slavery defending traitors.
As for reconciliation? Well by 1918 Jim Crow was pretty well established, so I guess it was to make some Southerners at the time feel good about the fact that their dads had fought to preserve and extend slavery. It certainly wasn’t designed to reconcile black Americans to their country which was contemporaneously crapping on them.
Sidenote: Can anybody explain why Southern Heritage is always bound up with four years of a four hundred year history? Is there a good reason why starting and losing the Civil War should be seen as the emblematic symbol of Southern History?
Victor (a225f9) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:54 pmF’ing white Americans and their white plans at white reconciliation. The privilege is undeniable. The violence inherent in the system is obvious.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:03 pm@38, I don’t really care about placating woke mobs (as you put it). I just think naming stuff after confederate generals who weren’t even very good generals is dumb. But honestly I just learned about it so I’m not really worked up about it.
Time123 (7c4b4a) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:05 pm“F’ing white Americans and their white plans at white reconciliation. The privilege is undeniable. The violence inherent in the system is obvious.”
I’m just repeating your argument, my dude. You said to google it, this is the top result. Since you’re not willing to provide your own source, I have to assume that this matches your opinion.
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:05 pmOh, sorry, it’s harkin’s opinion. Take it up with him I guess.
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:06 pmDid you intending this to be sarcastic?
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:06 pmDid you intending, hah.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:06 pm*whembly’s opinion. Sorry, I’ve lost track of who is who apparently.
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:07 pmDavethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:05 pm
Are you confusing me with whembly? Do we all look alike?
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:09 pm@frosty… @harkin… I don’t know if I should laugh or throw out my laptop…
😉
whembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:12 pm“@frosty… @harkin… I don’t know if I should laugh or throw out my laptop…”
We all make mistakes, like you thinking that googling “post civil war reconciliation” would validate your position.
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:15 pmwhembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:12 pm
My poking fun in this thread probably wasn’t a wise choice. If you’re getting confused with me you should do both or consider noticing that it’s 5 o’clock somewhere.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:15 pmFried calamari is on the menu… AGAIN!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:19 pmColonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:06 pm
That depends. Are you the sarcasm police? Do I need a license for that? Do you need to see my papers?
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:40 pmTo the commenters who are not in favor of renaming the installations, it seems as if you have determined this is an ideological issue. But is it? Isn’t it possible that the time has simply come to actively not have our military revere or honor those who not only endorsed slavery, but fought against their own countrymen to that end? Wouldn’t this be a unifying move, for all military personnel currently serving?
Dana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:43 pmThis is not going to go over well. Maybe someone in his campaign should look at the calendar and the history of Tulsa with regards to a thing that happened.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:46 pm@56
I’ve never wanted to pound my keyboard so hard to state “Read a f*cking book!” until now…
Jesus wept…
Here’s how I’d validate my position in my FIRST post is this:
It’s indisputable that the secessionists were guilty of treason. They fit the bill to the “t”.
Why weren’t they charged as so?
whembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:48 pm“This is not going to go over well. Maybe someone in his campaign should look at the calendar and the history of Tulsa with regards to a thing that happened.”
It’s being reported that noted white nationalist Stephen Miller is writing the speech, so I guarantee you that at least one person knows.
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:49 pm@60
It’s not an ideological issue with me.
It’s me not wanting to bend a knew to the rage mob.
I think I would be more on board if this wasn’t perpetuated by the usual rage mob.
whembly (c30c83) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:50 pmOffer to rename them after some famous Democrats: Bull Connor… George Wallace… James R. Crowe… James O. Eastland… Herman E. Talmadge… John McClellan…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:58 pm64… yes!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:59 pmWouldn’t this be a unifying move, for all military personnel currently serving?
Certainly, but do you think it ends here? Where do you think this ends?
beer ‘n pretzels (c993b2) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:00 pm61,
Hey, I’m working on a post about that right now!
Dana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:03 pmDana (0feb77) — 6/10/2020 @ 3:43 pm
My issue with it is practical. I don’t believe it will work to unify anyone. I’m not trying to speak for others but I took beer ‘n pretzels at face value; in favor of renaming.
I took NJRob and Colonel Haiku as having the same issues as whembly and I.
I didn’t notice, or might have missed, anyone else that was obviously against it.
Maybe. But it’s also possible that it can wait. Oh, it can’t wait? Why can’t it wait? Angry mobs you say?
I think this is overstating the significance of these base names. Navy ships maybe but this just doesn’t seem like something that happens with a base.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:25 pmAnd if a Confederate statue is going to be replaced, I have one suggestion.
Paul Montagu (e6225d) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:35 pmWhere does it end? It could end with the Confederacy and its generals not being celebrated. if you have objections to other attempts at renaming after that, you could make those objections then.
Defending the Confederacy as apparently necessary to make some larger point regarding the sanctity of preserving base names seems a little pointless.
Victor (a225f9) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:35 pmI think I would be more on board if this wasn’t perpetuated by the usual rage mob.
But it’s not coming from the rage mob. The rage mob is howling after cops and statues of dead white guys and JK Rowling*.
This thing about Confederate flags and army bases seems to have started off within the military itself.
*That’s probably worth a post in itself.
Kishnevi (d31e75) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:40 pmAt this point it isn’t a dog whistle, everyone can hear it, even OFWG’s. This is just saying the quiet thing out loud.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:47 pmIf you think the left will stop with military base names, you are crazy. After the Confederate purge, comes the slave-owner purge. Then the Jim Crow-era purge. Then the Republican purge.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:50 pmFort Bragg is a thing that exists today, if you’re a slave owner today you should be purged.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:54 pmWhy is it an issue? Why the need to tear down statues like the one I posted early morning of Christopher Columbus? Where is the compromise from the left and their olive branch? When are they going to give up on Stalinism and Maoism?
NJRob (49852a) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:54 pmMeanwhile…..
“ An activist who claimed to have helped establish the self-declared Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ), a six-block area in downtown Seattle, took to Twitter to complain about the community’s food being stolen.”
https://amp.dailycaller.com/2020/06/10/seattle-capitol-hill-no-go-zone-george-floyd-food-stolen?__twitter_impression=true
__ _
Cam Edwards
@CamEdwards
If only there was some group you could call when people take all your stuff.
harkin (9c4571) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:02 pm___
Fort Bragg is a thing that exists today, if you’re a slave owner today you should be purged.
It’s good then that Washington DC and Washington State are no longer things.
beer ‘n pretzels (c993b2) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:02 pmAll the Confederates should have been rendered non-persons, erased from history and living memory, 150 years ago. What were they ever good for, the treasonous losers? Now it’s just a gimmick by the white elite power structure to turn the lower orders even more against each other.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:05 pmPlainly put, Lee, Bragg, and the rest committed treason, however much they may have agonized over it.
Well that certainly sounds reasonable. You know who else committed treason? George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. (Ask King George III about it if you’re unclear on the concept of why overthrowing your own government isn’t an act of treason.) And they both owned slaves. So when it comes time to tear down the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial and rename Washington, DC, remove both of them from our currency, blast Mount Rushmore from the face of the Earth, and the thousand other things necessary to erase those hateful names from our history, I suppose that will be reasonable as well. Then we can start in on erasing the history of anything that had any connection, however tenuous, with slavery or racism. And then move on to sexism and cultural appropriation and microaggressions and whatever they can dream up next.
And if you don’t think that’s the end game here, if you think “well, they just want one little symbolic concession and they do have a valid point”, you probably also think those people who always insist they just want reasonable, common-sense gun safety legislation aren’t planning to disarm the citizenry, either. (Hint: We already passed “reasonable, common-sense gun safety legislation”, it was called the Brady Bill. Since that obviously wasn’t reasonable and common-sense enough, we should repeal it, right?) There’s a well-known saying about the Dane and the Danegeld, do you really think giving people what they demand is a good way to satisfy them and reach a reasonable compromise with them?
So where are you going to draw the line short of abject surrender? Do you seriously believe that you won’t have to draw the line? Oh, wait, I guess you already did draw a line. You didn’t draw a line at the TSA or the NSA or the AUMF or all the other things that went into making this country the sort of place where government officials were comfortable declaring a state of emergency, suspending the Constitution and assuming dictatorial powers, but you’re going to draw the line at Trump vulgarly rubbing it in your face that this is now the sort of country where somebody like Donald Trump can get himself elected President. Personally, I have to agree with whoever it was that said a nation gets the sort of government it deserves – we deserve Trump because we let Trump happen. We’re also going to deserve whatever comes next.
Jerryskids (702a61) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:16 pmVictor (a225f9) — 6/10/2020 @ 2:54 pm
Southern heritage isn’t bound up with four years of a four hundred year history. From what I can tell this is a view held only by people whose only knowledge of the south is whatever they’ve seen in a Tarantino movie. For example, southern states have a long history of military service and I think even recently 4 of the 5 top states for military enlistees are southern. All good American music began in the south. Southerners are generally resistant to the idea of soccer as a sport but this is slowly changing. The first flight was in the south. The notion of southern heritage is much more complex than being upset about not being able to own people.
What I think is bound up in southern heritage is a resistance to being forced to comply by threats of violence. Call it stubbornness, hardheadedness, etc. but this is not a message of unity.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:28 pm@79 and I wouldn’t expect the UK to name a military base after George Washington. Because he was a traitor to England. We do not live in the Confederate States of America, but instead in the country the confederates betrayed. Why should we have bases named after traitors?
Oh, and you have to let me name a base “Motherf’ing sh*tkickers.” because if you don’t it’s censorship and if you censor one thing, who knows where it will stop.
Nic (896fdf) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:30 pmVictor (a225f9) — 6/10/2020 @ 4:35 pm
Can you be specific about who is doing that? Can you point to any comments defending the confederacy?
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:38 pmHmm
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:46 pmNic (896fdf) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:30 pm
You have every right to advocate for that and many people, a lot of them descendants of slave owners, will defend to the death your right to advocate for ridiculous things. If on the other hand you want to demand it don’t be surprised when some of those same people tell you to STFU.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:47 pmColonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:46 pm
It looks like you’re still having trouble understanding that comment. Did you give up on your BTP2? Keep at it. Don’t give in so easily.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 5:53 pmUhh…Maybe from the guy that misunderstands, well every single thing iN hiS weIrdly PUncTuaTeD twEeTs.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:15 pmThank God for Trump! Changing names of Army bases costs money, and I see no reason to change them after 100 years. And why didn’t Obama change them? If they’re so RACIST. Maybe Joe Biden can answer that one.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:25 pmIdiots don’t understand where this is going. The Left isn’t going to stop with Confederates. After that, they will go after anyone who was a slaveholder (Goodbye Washington), then anyone who supported segregation (Goodbye Lincoln and Wilson) and then anyone who was “Racist” (Goodbye FDR, LBJ, JFK and Nixon). Then they will expand RACIST to include anyone they don’t like (Goodbye Reagan, Bush, and Bush II).
They – the Left – are NEVER going to stop. Because they are using this SJW Orwellian rewrite of American History as a WEAPON To impose their views on the rest of society.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:29 pmWhen are they going to give up on Stalinism and Maoism?
Rip Murdock (80e6b4) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:34 pmThere are statues of Stalin and Mao in the US?
BTW, Antifa has taken over part of Seattle, posted guards and has listed demands. They have also occupied City Hall. But they don’t exist and in any case are non-violent – so no big whoop. I’m sure if a right-wing militia group took over 1 sq mile of manhattan we’d get the same reaction.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:35 pm#89 There are statues of Marx and Lenin and people walk about with Mao’s little red book and shirts with che on them.
But nice obfuscation.
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:36 pm#89 There are statues of Marx and Lenin and people walk about with Mao’s little red book and shirts with che on them.
Where? I want pictures.
But nice obfuscation.
Now you’re just bragging.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:50 pmObama had a Mao ornament on the White House Christmas tree.
A little Google search would help you with the rest.
I’ll take it you won’t stop your obfuscation or your support of that agenda.
NJRob (49852a) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:58 pmColonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:15 pm
You managed to quote a lot of text that makes no mention of the confederacy as an example of someone defending the confederacy. Other than naming southern states it doesn’t even mention the south or the civil war. Can you be any more specific?
Is just sayIng North Carolina, Texas, or Georgia soMe sOrt of doG whiStle?
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:00 pmThere’s a statue of Lenin in Seattle. After the fall of the Soviet Union, it ended up in a scrapyard in Czechoslovakia. It was purchased by a private citizen and shipped here, and remains private property. It’s also for sale!
Davethulhu (b9acf0) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:03 pmNJRob (49852a) — 6/10/2020 @ 6:58 pm
Sorry, but suggesting people google things has been deemed unacceptable. You must denounce yourself.
frosty (f27e97) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:04 pmShould that be on bended knee or can I wait for the re-education camps?
NJRob (49852a) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:07 pmhttps://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/08/18/cnns_angela_rye_washington_jefferson_statues_need_to_come_down.html
Well that didn’t even take a day.
NJRob (49852a) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:08 pmAnd considering it’s 3 years old, it shouldn’t
NJRob (49852a) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:09 pmIf I chased down every Trumpkin lie, I’d need to live longer than Methuselah.
nk (1d9030) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:09 pmo the commenters who are not in favor of renaming the installations, it seems as if you have determined this is an ideological issue. But is it? Isn’t it possible that the time has simply come to actively
It’s not an ideological issue; it is a political one. And a narrow one at that. The left has decided to boil down a person to one trait, or choice, or belief.
If you are okay with that, then please don’t be alarmed when they decide that voting Republican makes one evil.
Hoi Polloi (dc4124) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:15 pmhttps://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/06/say-it-aint-so-horatio.php
And more and more history gets destroyed like the Taliban to budda.
NJRob (49852a) — 6/10/2020 @ 7:17 pmBenning thoughts on abolition of slavery…. “and it is probable that the white race, being superior in every respect, may push the other back. …we will be overpowered and our men will be compelled to wander like vagabonds all over the earth; and as for our women, the horrors of their state we cannot contemplate in imagination.”
Maybe pollsters should educate the public on the sentiments of these war “heroes” before they ask whether or not their names should be revered on bases that house African American men and women.
And then someone can ask Trump if he thinks those quotes should be tolerated by minority citizens in 2020.
noel (4d3313) — 6/11/2020 @ 7:25 am#103 – Really? We need to give everyone a history lesson on what Bragg and Hood said on Slavery? And which words, the ones they said BEFORE The Civil War, or the ones they said after? What a joke. The whole idea of getting rid of the names is a JOKE. And the leftists who support it are CLOWNS.
BTW, I noticed the R’s on the Senate Armed Service Committee caved and approved an amendment to the DoD authorization act demanding a renaming of the bases. But they did it by VOICE VOTE. That way no R voter knows which R Senator betrayed them.
What cowards.
Of course this will be amendment no. 434 to a 800 page bill. So, who knows what will happen. It’s possible it will zeroed out later, or deleted in exchange for some Amendment the D’s want. It shows that if Trump is defeated, and the R’s control the Senate they not only will go along with Open borders and Amnesty, but will not fight the D’s on ANY cultural issue. IOW, the R party will continue its march to extinction, just like the R Party in Calfornia (killed by the same type of Chamber of Commerce/libertarin/moderate losers).
rcocean (fcc23e) — 6/11/2020 @ 10:07 amKilled more citizens of the United States of America:
[ ] Soviet Russia
[ ] Nazi Germany
[ ] Imperial Japan
[ ] Axis Italy
[ ] North Korea
[ ] North Vietnam
[ ] Assorted Terrorists
[ ] Chinese Pandemic
[ X ] Confederate States of America
No honors for traitors. End of story.
“I remember every detail; the Germans wore gray, you wore blue.” – Rick Blaine [Humphrey Bogart] ‘Casablanca’ 1942
DCSCA (797bc0) — 6/11/2020 @ 11:14 amI realize that there is a natural resistance to removing a statue or renaming something. It shouldn’t be done without justification. But I don’t support honoring Nazis, Confederate Generals or Communists. Just not a thing I like to do.
noel (4d3313) — 6/11/2020 @ 1:43 pm