Patterico's Pontifications

9/30/2019

Donald Trump Must Be Removed from Office

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:33 am



Donald Trump on Twitter last night:

It’s tempting to write this off as just another wacky Donald Trump tweet. It’s not.

Yes, calling things you don’t like “treason” is a common form of political hyperbole. We know this. However, it is also a crime that is actually prosecuted by the United States Department of Justice. So this isn’t just any random politician, with no power over criminal justice, casually making an accusation of treason. In fact, it’s not even the President of the United States casually making an accusation of treason (which he has done before). It is the President of the United States saying in no uncertain terms that he wants a U.S. Congressman questioned on suspicion of having committed treason.

Pointing to random Democrats who have yelled “treason!” over Russiagate is not a valid response to the concern I address here, unless those random Democrats have the power to order someone arrested for treason. If they do, I want them gone from their jobs yesterday.

Trump defenders will also assert that Trump is not serious. He hasn’t actually asked for this to be done, after all! He is “joking” or blowing off steam. Well, perhaps he is. I don’t care. Someone who has the ability to hire and fire members of the federal criminal justice system, and give them orders, has no business talking this way — and if they can’t help but do so, they can’t run federal law enforcement. It’s just that simple. Trump is talking about having a political opponent, Adam Schiff, arrested for a crime that the political opponent clearly didn’t even remotely approach committing — and Trump’s subordinates actually have the power to put people in jail for committing that crime. This is not a tenable situation. Not remotely.

Imagine if Trump actually ordered DoJ to investigate Schiff for treason. Would the GOP defend that too? After all, established GOP doctrine now says Trump may order the criminal investigation of political opponents, and fire DoJ employees for not serving his personal interests.

Trump’s threat to have Adam Schiff investigated for treason is impeachable all by itself, but the threat is also part of a larger pattern of Trump’s view of criminal law as nothing but another tool he can use to protect himself and threaten his enemies. There are too many examples to cite them all: threatening Michael Cohen’s father with an investigation; expecting Jeff Sessions to un-recuse and exonerate him out of personal loyalty; asking the FBI director to drop an investigation of one of his former campaign and White House officials; asking a foreign leader to criminally investigate a likely political opponent; dangling pardons in front of potential witnesses against him; ordering subordinates to fire a prosecutor investigating his own wrongdoing. Donald Trump sees law enforcement as a collection of henchmen there to serve his personal partisan political interests. That’s not what they are there to do, and we can’t continue to have someone running federal law enforcement who sees the Department of Justice as his personal hit men.

This can’t continue like this. This has to stop. Donald Trump has to be removed from office.

UPDATE: Trump this a.m. Now Trump is not just suggesting Schiff should be questioned, but also that he be arrested.

It can’t go on.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

289 Responses to “Donald Trump Must Be Removed from Office”

  1. I have a feeling people will really like this post and clap me on the back and say atta boy.

    Yes, it’s sarcasm. I spent a chunk of the weekend having former allies on Twitter calling me an asshole and disowning me right and left. In the old days I think I would have lost sleep over that. Now I lose sleep over the particulars of how we are going to remodel our kitchen. Having old friends (OK, acquaintances) mock me and tell me to go to hell is mildly annoying, but after five minutes of reflection I realize they were never friends (OK, or very good acquaintances) and they can all go perform impossible sexual acts upon themselves.

    I don’t expect my friends to agree with me about this. Clearly the way criminal justice is run is a particular concern of mine. I expect most people will shrug it off like they shrug off everything else about the guy.

    But every day I listen to the voices of people like Mark Levin or Stephen Miller, who both went on tirades over the weekend, and all I can think is: I despise these people. And every word out of their mouths sounds like insane and ridiculous twaddle. I don’t think I’ve definively said until today that this guy has to go, but I have reached a breaking point with the tweet about Schiff. No doubt several more “friends” will flounce and shun me as a result. This is me shrugging my shoulders. Now about my kitchen…

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. This is the real cost of democracy. What to do when a person is elected who is unsuited to the office? Do you say that the people who voted for the poor choice are “stupid” or “evil”? I don’t think so.

    Does it matter if people you despise want a person removed from office for reasons that are personal and partisan? I don’t think so.

    All we have left is the rule of law. And that rule must apply to everyone. It shouldn’t matter if you like or dislike the person in question. It should never be seen through the lens of partisanship.

    And it doesn’t matter who the “next in line” is—the rule of law is all we have.

    So now we are in a bad place. I hope we can find out way out.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  3. Are those the same friends who wouldnt lift a finger when that thug kimberlin attacked your family that same (redacted) bureau, so lets excuse sweeney todd weld, and kathy griffith (thats satire and shane gillis (wonder why they didnt hire him back)

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  4. No simon thats who we had for eight years, he gstirs up jealousy and then is remunerated, he rewards our enemies materially and topples our allies he waged war on the police, he defamed our traditions, and the press cheered him a thousamd fold.

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  5. “But every day I listen to the voices of people like Mark Levin or Stephen Miller”…. Patterico

    I have some hearing loss so Mark Levin’s pitch is above my ability to hear. Like a dog whistle. You know what I mean.

    noel (f22371)

  6. Narc,

    I doubt I will get this — but do you think of Mr. Trump’s morning tweets. Not what you think of Obama and Democrats and RINOs. But what do you think of the President demanding that a political opponent “be questioned at the highest level for Fraud & Treason…..”

    (A side note — this guy always seems to sound like the evil subsidiary Nazi in some 40s flick.)

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  7. “Trump’s threat to have Adam Schiff investigated for treason is impeachable all by itself, but the threat is also part of a larger pattern of Trump’s view of criminal law as nothing but another tool he can use to protect himself and threaten his enemies.”

    Yep, it’s unprecedented!

    It’s as if the past three years never happened.

    Munroe (53beca)

  8. I don’t agree. I believe that many on the left who want to overthrow the Constitution and replace it with socialist governance have committed treason. But like one of their evil heroes, William Ayers, they are “guilty as sin and free as a bird.”

    Get back to me when he tries to lock people up on trumped up charges for political gain.

    P.S. Many of us don’t take this seriously because too many of the same people have been trying to overturn the 2016 election since the people decided to turn their back on the established ruling class. Just remember since the election we’ve had people saying the electoral college should ignore the people and vote against Trump, to fake crisis after fake crisis all for the same purpose… to put the people in their place.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  9. The rule of law, are you trying standup, thats been used as a dishrag

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  10. Yes that is the silent malware in the universities the foundations which flow into the press and the socalled entertsinkemt medua

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  11. No President has ever been impeached for saying bad things about poltical opponents. I think you know that. Truman publically called Dewey a “Nazi sympathizer” and accused Ike of being “UnAmerican” and “Giving aid to the Enemy (ChiComs) by supporting Joe McCarthy in his attacks on General Marshall. I find it humorous that the “Never Trumpers” are A-OK with D’s calling Trump a Nazi, thief, Liar, Fascist, Racist, etc. But Trump needs to get impeached for insulting them back.

    Well, anyway we all guess how Patterico will vote in 2020. My guess is he’ll like President Liz Warren much more than Trump.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  12. And to our host — atta boy, pat on the back. Your efforts — and the efforts of your contributors — are appreciated by me. And I can see how the day after day Trump worship can get you down. Some of these guys have arguments for why they are that way, but mostly its the same type of people who say the coach of [Team] is an idiot, we need to get [fashionable other coach].

    Funny thing, though, the one that got me apoplectic this morning was Trump approvingly predicting Civil War if he was removed. You care about the law — I guess I was bothered by the embrace of the fraying of civil society if he doesn’t get his way.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  13. I suggested last week that Trump’s unabashed contempt for the rule of law and tendency to freak out when under stress could eventually make it impossible for Republican senators to continue to cover for him.

    It’s troubling to watch the president of the United States rant and threaten and rave like a street thug on meth, but I’d say he’s off to a good start, for those who hope to see him removed.

    Dave (1bb933)

  14. I agree with you, Patterico. I cannot discribe the loathing I have for Liddle’ Donnie. It is not this one thing. It’s not even the liddle’ straw that broke the liddle’ camel’s liddle’ back. It’s the entirety of Trump’s so-called Presidency. The liddle’ sow’s liddle’ ear did not turn into a liddle’ silk purse. It only rotted and attracted maggots and corrupted everything it touched.

    nk (dbc370)

  15. “After all, established GOP doctrine now says Trump may order the criminal investigation of political opponents, and fire DoJ employees for not serving his personal interests.”

    If so, where did they ever get that idea?

    There are people serving sentences resulting from politically motivated investigations, and none of these inquisitions was instigated by Trump.

    Munroe (53beca)

  16. Every attempt to nullify an election and remove the sitting president through fraud has failed. How dare he get angry or describe it as treason?

    It’s also interesting that Schiff’s fictional ‘quotes’ from Trump in a Congressional hearing aren’t the words being described as “insane and ridiculous twaddle” If only he’d been sworn in before he spoke.

    Also interesting that the hate here is reserved for people pointing out the unending fraud. Emotions are running high.
    _

    New York Times Opinion
    @nytopinion
    To Republican members of the United States Senate: President Trump must go. And only you have the power to make it happen, writes
    @DLeonhardt
    __ _

    This is an especially infantile opinion piece, even by New York Times Trump-era standards. It’s a wishful thinking wooing of presumably malleable Republican senators, and it reads more like a teenaged girl’s dream journal than something from what was once the most serious news source in America.

    The author is getting way ahead of himself too. The House has merely announced an impeachment inquiry and the Times is already trying to line up Senate votes. The leap-frogging from the posturing of the past week to the endgame is just indicative of just how emotion-driven these people are.

    It’s difficult to take anything they say seriously when the slightest crumb of hearsay evidence is used to springboard into a land of pure fantasy.”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/the-morning-briefing-baseball-heartbreak-over-impeachment-nonsense-edition/
    _

    The most enlightening thing about this thread is the disclosure that he listens to Stephen Miller and Mark Levin every day.

    harkin (dc1411)

  17. UPDATE: Trump this a.m. Now Trump is not just suggesting Schiff should be questioned, but also that he be arrested.

    It can’t go on.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  18. The Democrats and the MSM Democrat Press (which is 90% of them) are the aggressors in this war of words between Trump and them. They’ve refused to accept Trump as President from Day 1, and have refused to work with him or give him the respect ANY President deserves. Now they’ve decided that Impeachment isn’t a serious constitutional process (only done twice in 230 years) but just a game they can use to hurt Trump.

    The majority of country doesn’t agree that you get to undo an election because you don’t like the result. With Clinton the R’s had to impeach because Clinton had lied under oath and tried to get others to lie under oath. With Trump, the D’s have no case for impeachment. Not liking a President isn’t an impeachable offense. This a clown show. And will backfire on them.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  19. Patterico, I call this the “Michael Jackson Issue.” Jackson could have used a trusted person to say to him, “Dude, that is a very bad idea for you and your reputation; don’t do it.

    But famous people in general don’t want that kind of person around to moderate their behavior.

    So here we are.

    And it results in people excusing things from Person A because Person B is so much worse. Nk, it is like the Greek gods are punishing us for our own lazy thinking.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  20. And there is a decided difference between “He fights” and “He flails.”

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  21. Well, anyway we all guess how Patterico will vote in 2020. My guess is he’ll like President Liz Warren much more than Trump.

    Can you find even a single instance where Patrick has praised or expressed support for Elizabeth Warren?

    You fellow Trump superfan Tucker “cocker-spaniel doing calculus” Carlson is the one who loves Warren, and wants Republicans to sound more like her.

    Dave (1bb933)

  22. It’s good to know that you were always a better person than you seemed like you were (to me), back when you were only airing grievances that you shared with your friends and like-minded supporters. Life’s too short for taking acquaintances seriously. I applaud you. Jeff Flake, too.

    glasnost (790a89)

  23. Destruction of institutions with the collusion of the media, treason with foreign powers who calm for our destruction, with monies

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  24. The apple of my orange is not my huckleberry. Granted! Double granted! The Democrats are as loathsome as, and in their policies more than, Trump. But right now the question is whose wrinkled old corrupt heinie should be parked in the Oval Office.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. RCOcean —

    You list out some Presidential insults by HST and compare them to Trump calling for the “questioning” and “arrest” of a political opponent.

    Do you notice the difference between the two?

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  26. Pat… you don’t deserve the attacks for stating your opinion and I’m sorry you are going through that.

    You have more integrity than most.

    I, however, disagree with your point that Trump’s action here rises to being “impeachment worthy”, but I understand where you’re coming from and I can’t fault you for that.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  27. The endgame for #NeverTrump looks quite rosy. Here are the options:

    1. Failure — for the umpteenth time.
    2. Success!! Finally. Yay! President Warren! Kavanaugh rape!

    Munroe (53beca)

  28. UPDATE: Trump this a.m. Now Trump is not just suggesting Schiff should be questioned, but also that he be arrested.

    This is (another) violation of his oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and (another) impeachable offense.

    Article I, Section 6 says that

    …for any Speech or Debate in either House, [Senators and Representatives] shall not be questioned in any other Place.

    Dave (1bb933)

  29. It was a more civil time, when truman said dewey came from the same people that gave hitler and tojo.

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  30. There may be a fraction of 100, say 8 or 9, crazy enough Trump butt gerbils (like the ones who falsely arrested Stormy and the City of Columbus now has to pay her $450,000 for it) who may try a “citizens arrest for treason on Schiff (or the whistleblower), and Trump is definitely demented enough to even be counting on it.

    nk (dbc370)

  31. Youcant figure out whose destroying the country and whose trying to hold it together, there is no real opposition in california because they elected a new people and dissolved (or drove away) the old ones.

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  32. They were just doing research like the cbs news crew, they had plenty of material.

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  33. Now take thomas ravenel one of the elect, who threw boomerangs

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  34. No President has ever been impeached for saying bad things about poltical [sic] opponents.

    […]

    I find it humorous that the “Never Trumpers” are A-OK with D’s calling Trump a Nazi, thief, Liar, Fascist, Racist, etc. But Trump needs to get impeached for insulting them back.

    This is not an honest interpretation of what Patterico said. Clearly his call for Trump’s removal from office is not about saying bad things about his political. Not in the least.

    Dana (05f22b)

  35. I doubt that Trump has read or understood Article III Section 3 of the document that he swore an oath to preserve, protect and defend. “Treason” is not some light word to be casually tossed around, not for a charge that carries the death penalty. This president is unfit for this job. He needs to be removed, either by the Senate or 25th Amendment solution.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  36. BTW, I saw Schiff’s opening statement on live television as it happened. He was paraphrasing in a poor attempt at being semi-humorous. Funny how Trump is so angry at getting mocked like that. Actually, not funny.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  37. Paul,

    Where are your posts chastising the left and Bill Weld for saying the same about Trump?

    NJRob (3dddb0)

  38. The Democrats and the MSM Democrat Press (which is 90% of them) are the aggressors in this war of words between Trump and them. They’ve refused to accept Trump as President from Day 1,

    Ever since Trump began campaigning, his fans have been giddily cheering his alacrity in hurling insults. It’s one of the traits that won him such fervent devotion in the first place. (“He hates the people we hate; therefore we love him!”) At the same time, they regard criticism of Trump as fundamentally unjust.

    It’s very hard for the faithful to accept that dislike of Trump might possibly originate from the behavior of Trump himself, and that it might decrease if he didn’t constantly behave so horribly.

    Radegunda (13e3ce)

  39. Further, rcocean, when you reduce Patterico’s well thought-out and substantiated reasoning to little more than tit-for-tat insults, you insult your own intelligence: we are talking about the sitting President of the United States, a man holding the most powerful position in the world using that position to call for an individual to be questioned about “treason,” and now suggesting he be arrested as well. Here is the relevant portion of the post:

    Yes, calling things you don’t like “treason” is a common form of political hyperbole. We know this. However, it is also a crime that is actually prosecuted by the United States Department of Justice. So this isn’t just any random politician, with no power over criminal justice, casually making an accusation of treason. In fact, it’s not even the President of the United States casually making an accusation of treason (which he has done before). It is the President of the United States saying in no uncertain terms that he wants a U.S. Congressman questioned on suspicion of having committed treason.

    This is not just any old elected official doing this. This is the President of the United States, with all the powers that he holds. And if one refuses to see the distinction, whether through blind loyalty or sheer obstinancy, it still doesn’t change the fact that this should be very troubling to everyone, no matter where we stand on the issue of Trump.

    Dana (05f22b)

  40. ‘“Treason” is not some light word to be casually tossed around, not for a charge that carries the death penalty.’
    Paul Montagu (f2c051) — 9/30/2019 @ 8:45 am

    Right, which is why some commenters in this blog (some commenting here in this thread) did exactly that in the past directed at Trump.

    Munroe (53beca)

  41. Trump doesn’t care about the law. At this point, I am not sure if his supporters and enablers care either.

    DRJ (15874d)

  42. Trump has always been about looting the country. By him, by his cronies, and by his base which calls it their “fair share”. This was obvious from the time of the primaries.

    nk (dbc370)

  43. NJRob (3dddb0) — 9/30/2019 @ 8:53 am

    Article III, Section 3 defines treason:

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

    As president, Trump gave aid and comfort to the Russian military forces who committed acts of war against our country on his behalf in 2016. First by denying and attempting to conceal the fact of the attacks themselves, and then by attempting to hinder and obstruct our government’s response to them.

    It is his involvement as an accessory to, and benefactor of, a foreign military attack on the United States that makes the difference.

    Dave (1bb933)

  44. There is some irony that Twitter is the mechanism leading to Trump’s ultimate downfall. This especially as we who have been long been concerned about his lack of restraint and discretion about the troublesome nature/content of his tweets have been dismissed and mocked, up one side and down the other for being ignorant rubes, unable to understand the 12 dimensional chess he is playing. I take no joy in any of this.

    Dana (05f22b)

  45. “BTW, I saw Schiff’s opening statement on live television as it happened. He was paraphrasing in a poor attempt at being semi-humorous.”

    So pure.

    https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2019/09/26/absolutely-unreal-adam-schiffs-fictional-retelling-of-the-trump-call-transcript-was-so-shameless-he-later-admitted-it-was-parody-video/

    harkin (dc1411)

  46. “Trump doesn’t care about the law.”
    DRJ (15874d) — 9/30/2019 @ 9:02 am

    When the law is used as a cudgel against political opponents, we should be very concerned about the law — starting right now, today.

    I guess we should only nominate lawyers from now on. I see a lot of nodding heads here.

    Munroe (53beca)

  47. BS Dave. Your obsession is beyond the pale. How anyone doesn’t repeatedly call you out is beyond me.

    NJRob (fde1b4)

  48. Trump believes he is the law, and therefore is the only law worth caring about.

    Dana (05f22b)

  49. @41 and everyone else.

    Yes, calling things you don’t like “treason” is a common form of political hyperbole. We know this. However, it is also a crime that is actually prosecuted by the United States Department of Justice. So this isn’t just any random politician, with no power over criminal justice, casually making an accusation of treason. In fact, it’s not even the President of the United States casually making an accusation of treason (which he has done before). It is the President of the United States saying in no uncertain terms that he wants a U.S. Congressman questioned on suspicion of having committed treason.

    Emphasis is mine.

    There’s a difference between Bill Mahr, Rachel Maddow, 10,000 random twitter accounts and the President of the United States.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  50. “Trump doesn’t care about the law.”
    DRJ (15874d) — 9/30/2019 @ 9:02 am

    When the law is used as a cudgel against political opponents, we should be very concerned about the law — starting right now, today.

    I guess we should only nominate lawyers from now on. I see a lot of nodding heads here.

    Munroe (53beca) — 9/30/2019 @ 9:09 am

    It’s really a shame that the current president is such a failure of as a leader and can’t effectively do anything about that. You must be very sad that he’s such a loser.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  51. Patterico, Thank you for putting up the post. I enjoyed reading it.

    Time123 (b53270)

  52. I’m gonna sit this one out.
    After completely losing my composure yesterday I’m sitting down due to accumulated yellow cards.
    Too bad too, because this one promises to be a lively contest.

    steveg (354706)

  53. Trump believes he is the law, and therefore is the only law worth caring about.

    His use of the word “treason” in this context pretty much proves that. He thinks he is the nation, like some kind of Louis XIV: L’etat cest moi.

    nk (dbc370)

  54. I don’t think Trump has ever understood or grasped the difference between being a President and a private citizen. He has never realized the severe weight and importance of the office he holds, therefore he has reduced it to something he understands and is well-acquainted with: ruling like a mob boss.

    Dana (05f22b)

  55. Sounds good! Every sensible person knows that removing Trump from office will restore the goodwill, sanity, decency and nonpartisan unity that existed in full measure before he was elected.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  56. I agree with you at your 56 as well, Dana. He has never risen to the dignity, duties, and responsibility of the office. A grasping grifter he was, a grasping grifter he remained. And it wouldn’t be so bad, if he was at least a strong and competent grasping grifter. But he’s basically a loser checking payphone coin slots for returned change that the people forgot to take.

    nk (dbc370)

  57. 38:

    Very funny! Your forgot the “law.” “Its different when they do it.”

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  58. Oh he done brought it. Preach it Mr. Patterico.

    JRH (52aed3)

  59. His whole administration has been nothing more than burning up the country’s reserves domestically and internationally.

    nk (dbc370)

  60. Why wait for impeachment, his cabinet should begin the 25th amendment remedies, immediately. He is not mentally fit to be responsible for himself, much less be president.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  61. Helen o’D
    @boggywood
    ·
    He has a good point, to be fair. If I had been accused of being a Russian spy all day every day for 3 years & when that didn’t work out, they found another former USSR state to accuse me of nefarious activities, I’d do more than raise an eyebrow about it

    _

    “I don’t think Trump has ever understood or grasped the difference between being a President and a CEO

    Fyp

    And so many mob bosses out there running their complaints past the public on Twitter. He’s basically John Gotti.

    harkin (dc1411)

  62. #41:

    Right, which is why some commenters in this blog (some commenting here in this thread) did exactly that in the past directed at Trump.

    Do you really see no difference between someone using such terms in the comments section of a small blog, and the president of the United States accusing people of treason with his very big bullhorn and calling for someone to be arrested?

    Are you suggesting that the president’s very public words don’t matter much? That what Trump says has little connection with what he does?

    Is it inconceivable that some superfan might resolve to punish someone that Trump has identified as his mortal enemy?

    Radegunda (13e3ce)

  63. Why wait for impeachment, his cabinet should begin the 25th amendment remedies, immediately.

    The 25th Amendment is not entirely self-enforcing. Has Congress enacted a procedure for applying it?

    nk (dbc370)

  64. Steveg,

    The usual suspects will drown out any reasoned discourse.

    NJRob (3dddb0)

  65. it’s very silly, and it’s so original to what you read every where, usually sans any context, my fishwrap is mercifully brief, but that doesn’t mean it’s full of category error,

    narciso (d1f714)

  66. So, all the breathless references to how Trump was behind any Dem challenger by double digits was all a bunch of hooey, much like the faux outrage seen today.

    If #NeverTrump actually believed that, they’d put their faith in democracy. But, they never have so why start now?

    Munroe (53beca)

  67. #62 — that’s what I keep thinking too. However one might parse the details of the Ukrainian business (or Russia or whatnot), there’s abundant evidence that Trump’s mental state is very far from what a reasonable person would want to entrust with any great responsibility or power.

    Radegunda (13e3ce)

  68. take Sweeney todd weld, he didn’t show that kind of concern, say with whitey bulger,

    narciso (d1f714)

  69. Where are your posts chastising the left and Bill Weld for saying the same about Trump?

    One, they’re private citizens, with no police power to arrest anyone for treason.
    Two, I’m under no obligation to reply to every stupid thing someone says. There’s not enough time in the day.
    Three, I’ve already expressed that Weld will never get my vote well before his idiot treason comment.
    Four, whataboutism noted. You’ll have to find double standards in someone else.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  70. now this gutter trash slandering the dead, including a former us marine, that agitates me,

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/wasp-network-film-review-venice-2019-1235953

    narciso (d1f714)

  71. but one is used to be slandered, by the ones who blithely justified the firing squads, who call us worms and worse, now posada carriles there was someone who would rather die on his feet, (he was shot in the face once) the commies at the Miami herald drove him to ground,

    narciso (d1f714)

  72. This isn’t about the media or the Democrats, even though Trump wants his public to think it is. This is about what Trump has done and said, and especially how he deals with the fallout from his purposeful governing decisions. We’ve seen how Trump views and uses power in the past 3+ years, so we know how he makes decisions and how he responds to critics.

    Trump has a pattern: He uses power to bully and threaten. His goal is always to get even. Some Americans like that approach and don’t care about the legal process because they don’t see how the law has made their lives better. They think getting and using power will make their lives better, even if it bends the law.

    Maybe it will make some things better, but when we bend the Rule of Law too much then it may break. Claiming the Democrats do it, too, ignores that if no one believes in the Rule of Law, it will go away.

    DRJ (15874d)

  73. Who here worries about the slippery slope that comes from infringing on the Second Amendment? It is a real concern, but so is the slippery slope that undermines the Rule of Law.

    DRJ (15874d)

  74. of course it is, now spiderman is back in the mcu universe,

    the rule has been bent so far back, it’s in splinters,

    narciso (d1f714)

  75. Dont worry, N, Gael probably got passed around the set like a poodle at a dog pound.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  76. I trust you agree,

    “To defeat him at the polls would do history a disservice, would do our nation a disservice,” Green said. “I’m concerned that if we don’t impeach the president, he will get re-elected.”

    narciso (d1f714)

  77. Having come to the realization that they can’t win elections, law craft and prosecutorial discretion is all #NeverTrump has.

    Munroe (53beca)

  78. @75, Trump is lazy, short sighted and a weak leader. Many of the dumb things he does are mitigated by these traits. My real fear is that a democrat get’s elected who lacks Trump’s flaws and wants to do different dumb things. Part of why I want the laws enforced is to impede what a president warren could do.

    Time123 (7cca75)

  79. “Who here worries about the slippery slope that comes from infringing on the Second Amendment? It is a real concern, but so is the slippery slope that undermines the Rule of Law.”
    DRJ (15874d) — 9/30/2019 @ 10:09 am

    Some of us were worried about that before today.

    Munroe (53beca)

  80. @78, nope disagree. I think this is bad for small government conservatives because it could turn trump into a martyr and provide an excuse for his loss. I want him to lose the election so that the party can go back to favoring small government, the rule of law and family values.

    Time123 (7cca75)

  81. @81, it’s too bad Trump has completely failed to do anything about the Rule of law or the swamp in 3 years. Do think it’s because he’s crazy? Or just a bad leader?

    Time123 (7cca75)

  82. against idiots like Dorothy gee, who can’t read the law, nor care what it means, you were going to address this at one point, right,

    narciso (d1f714)

  83. now miss guyger, distracted is not a good look for a dallas police officer,

    narciso (d1f714)

  84. oh, well but he deserved it somehow,

    https://dailycaller.com/2019/09/30/kim-gardner-skips-court-date/

    narciso (d1f714)

  85. Patterico noticed that Trump exaggerates. OMG

    David in Cal (0d5a1d)

  86. I have a feeling people will really like this post and clap me on the back and say atta boy.

    I have said for some time that Trump should be impeached for “conduct unbecoming.” I have been told, corrected, lectured, etc, that oh, no, it can only be for HIGH CRIMES and (or?) MISDEMEANORS. Not sure if that’s high misdemeanors or just any misdemeanor. But whatever.

    I’ve always thought Ford was right on this one. What is necessary is that the charges must have enough political heft to get the Congress to impeach and the Senate to convict. The charges that have been leveled in the past (emoluments, obstruction) haven’t taken hold for various reasons. The current thing probably won’t either (which is why they are fishing for more). People are used to liars and scoundrels in office.

    But the tweets, the boorishness, the disrespect of women, the flagrant dishonesty, the self-centeredness and the amazing lack of taste all add up to a stain on the office. Impeach him for this and you have my vote.

    Good to see Patterico finally coming over to my side. 😉

    Kevin M (19357e)

  87. Atta boy.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  88. I’ve just seen two very different defenses of Trump’s unhinged Twitter rants:

    1. “I think it’s pretty entertaining.”
    2. “PugilistTrump is the president we need now. We need a street fighter.”

    So: either he’s just keeping us amused, or he’s more deadly serious than anyone before him. Which is it? And does the “He fights!” crowd never ask themselves “What is he actually willing to fight for?”

    Radegunda (13e3ce)

  89. Future saying:

    “It’s not the act that gets you in trouble, and not the cover-up either — it’s the tweets!”

    Kevin M (19357e)

  90. Having come to the realization that they can’t win elections, law craft and prosecutorial discretion is all #NeverTrump has.

    When the incumbent can corruptly leverage the power of his office to threaten foreign governments into doing his campaign “favors”, elections are no longer fair.

    Dave (1bb933)

  91. If you are still using references like “NeverTrumpers” in light of this post and Trump’s tweets re treason and arrest, then you care more about playing politics rather than any adherence to the law, or holding a sitting President accountable for his words and deeds.

    Dana (05f22b)

  92. Patterico noticed that Trump exaggerates. OMG

    So the president calling for a political foe to be arrested for treason is mere exaggeration? Likewise his insinuation that a whistleblower ought to be executed? And all his demonstrably, categorically false statements are mere “exaggeration” too?

    Is there nothing that can’t (or won’t) be excused by “That’s just Trump being Trump”?

    Radegunda (13e3ce)

  93. To be fair to Trump and his supporters, Trump may just be trying to rally his base. Those high-fallutin’ concepts that us Poindexters care about aren’t so important to what Gene Wilder called “the Salt of the Earth.”

    Kevin M (19357e)

  94. ‘perpetually agitated’ over whispers made to the new York post or politico, attributable to no one, in the latter instance, con coughlin did seem to have that viewpoint, but that’s not a big enough draw,

    narciso (d1f714)

  95. Yes. “Unhinged”. At least I’m not the only one thinking it.

    noel (f22371)

  96. Patterico noticed that Trump exaggerates. OMG

    This sort of intellectually lazy rationalization is what we’ve come to expect from individuals whose support of Trump supersedes all else. To put a mere mortal in the position of being unassailable – even when he is ripe for it – is a dangerous thing to do, to anyone on any side of the aisle. No one should view their politicians with such rose-colored glasses. If anything, we should consistently view them with shrewd, unvarnished and fearless skepticism, and work our way from there.

    Dana (05f22b)

  97. There is only one way that Trump gets removed: if the Republican Party decides that they cannot run in 2020 with him as their standard-bearer and cannot replace him at the polls. If that should come about, after some new revelation leaks, things will happen pretty quick.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  98. ‘When the incumbent can corruptly leverage the power of his office to threaten foreign governments into doing his campaign “favors”, elections are no longer fair.’
    Dave (1bb933) — 9/30/2019 @ 10:40 am

    You stole that brainstorm from Hillary’s butt sore.

    Munroe (53beca)

  99. You stole that brainstorm from Hillary’s butt sore.

    Nope, I read it in Trump’s transcript.

    Dave (1bb933)

  100. Arm a drug cartel, wage an unauthorized war against an allied power, use the machinery of state to suppress popular movement,

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  101. Conducting an illegal surveillance on a presudential rival, bribe an enemy power with billions of dollars

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  102. Conducting an illegal surveillance on a presudential rival

    Hows the IG report on that coming?
    They find anything yet?

    Time123 (b53270)

  103. “Hows the IG report on that coming?”
    Time123 (b53270) — 9/30/2019 @ 11:02 am

    Diversion!!

    Munroe (53beca)

  104. “Sounds good! Every sensible person knows that removing Trump from office will restore the goodwill, sanity, decency and nonpartisan unity that existed in full measure before he was elected.”

    Perhaps Trump can go back to demanding to see Obama’s birth certificate.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  105. My underlying political problem with Trump is that he’s singularly ineffective at making the changes that he professes to want.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  106. 105. Or I think it’s a serious accusation that should be supported by evidence and I’m mocking the people that keep crying about it as if if had been substantiated.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  107. The reason that all this whining about foreign involvement isn’t very interesting to many is that such foreign influence is a drop in the ocean compared to the one-sided help the Democrats get from the media corporations.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  108. Wanted to add, if it turns out that Obama (or people in his administration) abused the system to investigate Trump they should also be prosecuted. But both can be true at the same time. It’s not either or.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  109. I think this may actually BE treason:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1178477539653771264

    Kevin M (19357e)

  110. I just finished putting in a kitchen in a bunker for a client.

    mg (8cbc69)

  111. 93:

    Not at all. Its simply more proof of what we already know.

    Rich Romneys, stuffy George Will types or clueless McMuffins, seem incapable of “picking a side,” by using a macro sense of what is best for the US. They instead, assess matters from some imagined micro-position on the sidelines, where they believe honor stands.

    As in all cases of internecine disputes, they are harder on those they should support. They seem to believe that they are the sole (and unappreciated) protectors of standards no one else recognizes.

    In a home invasion, they’ll nitpick the homeowner’s response from the comfort of their study, instead of standing for the overriding principle that the homeowner has a right to defend himself.

    In politics, they’ve been utterly ineffectual (what have the Never Trumpers “preserved” as schools fail, taxes rise, kids are clueless about US history, libraries host drag events, etc.).

    They’ve seized on every Trump stumble since 2015, as “proof” of what they always “knew.” He is repugnant and a constant irritant to their perennially inflamed sense of right and wrong.

    For them, Justice Warren is better than Trump; 100,000+ refugees pouring in each year are better than Trump. etc. Because Trump offends them.

    Nothing Trump has done or is alleged to have done in impeachment material. Its sad but no surprise to see the NT’s leaping to the opposite conclusion.

    The Left will use whatever attacks it can on him, and if removed they will start on Pence.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  112. Trump wasn’t the first to call his political opponents behavior treasonist.
    I don’t mind him playing by their rules.
    Can you explain why it bothers you?

    ustuplay (4dd398)

  113. Is there something wrong with someone being questioned?

    The Dems seem all for that sort of thing until it’s one of them that might be Q’ed.

    jim2 (a5dc71)

  114. Julie Carey
    @JulieCareyNBC
    Statement of apology from the family of the 12 year old African American girl who now admits she made a false assault allegation against 3 white boys in her class.
    @nbcwashington
    __ _

    Ben Domenech
    @bdomenech
    This is a good apology. The multiple national media organizations that used this little girl’s story to attack the Vice President’s wife should retract, correct, and think about how they can do better next time.
    __ _

    The Washington Post
    @washingtonpost
    Perspective: President Pelosi? It could happen.

    _

    If anyone thinks this will ever stop, think again. But at least don’t aid and abet them.

    harkin (dc1411)

  115. #116 —

    See number #29. I mean I know the Constitution is just a collection of perfidious technicalities that just get in the way of a good man trying to drain the swamp and own the libs, but there you are.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  116. Shocker: The business about the whistle-blower policy being changed a month ago to allow “hear-say” was a TrumpWorld fable

    Well, duh. That was obvious from the initial assertion. It wasn’t true in the 90’s, it’s not true 20 years later.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  117. Nothing Trump has done or is alleged to have done in impeachment material.

    Telling the head of a foreign government who asks about foreign aid to do you a favor and prosecute your political opponent’s family is all on the up-and-up, eh?

    Dave (1bb933)

  118. Speaking of Russian trolls, Dave, there is a distinct Putin smell behind all this Ukraine business.

    Elements of the bombshell whistleblower report outlining various aims pursued by the Trump administration with respect to Ukraine keep connecting back to Russia.
    Several of the reported objectives of President Donald Trump, his administration officials, and his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, would benefit the Kremlin and not the United States or its national security. Namely, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky was urged to make a deal with Putin, pressured “to play ball” with respect to providing or manufacturing compromising materials about Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden, and essentially tasked with concocting “the evidence” to disprove the well-established fact that the Democratic National Committee server was hacked by Russian intelligence agents in 2016.

    Trump treats our alliance with Ukraine as an inconvenience, as if this victimized-by-Russia nation is getting in the way of his palling around with Vlad. And let’s not forget that all the lies that Trump and his minions have told about Ukraine just happen to serve Putin’s interests.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  119. So, we’re agreed Adam Schiff should be removed from office, correct?
    D.GOOCH

    Donald Gooch (3b3c3d)

  120. 118: I’d be impressed if the other side agreed with you. They don’t. Or if you’d had success before 2016 in getting them to abide by the Rules. You haven’t.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  121. That article about what the Russians are saying in regard to Trump, Biden and the Ukraine in their own media is very interesting, Paul.

    Dave (1bb933)

  122. Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ….If the Democrats are successful in removing the President from office (which they will never be), it will cause a Civil War like fracture in this Nation from which our Country will never heal.” Pastor Robert Jeffress,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1178477539653771264

    Kevin M (19357e)

  123. Telling the head of a HOSTILE foreign government that you’ll be more flexible after the election is conspiracy to commit treason, but Obama’s DoJ didn’t see it that way.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  124. The question is not “Who got us down this rabbit hole??!” but “How long have we been here, and when will we stop digging??!”

    Kevin M (19357e)

  125. I’d be impressed if the other side agreed with you. They don’t. Or if you’d had success before 2016 in getting them to abide by the Rules. You haven’t.

    Between January 2009 and January 2015, before Donald Trump arrived to “save” us, the Republican Party won over 1000 congressional, state legislative and governors seats from the Democrats.

    Why would we want to adopt their losing tactics?

    In 2018 alone, Trump handed about 1/3 of those back to the Democrats.

    Dave (1bb933)

  126. President Pence. He may be aware of all the schemes but at least he’s not crazy.

    noel (f22371)

  127. 120:

    US President asks foreign government to see how a US VP’s son, expelled from the naval reserve in 2014, got a 50k/mo deal in his country.

    Some might say investigating seeming influence peddling by a former US office holder is a good thing. Others, which appears to include you, seem to see it as off limits because . . . it looks “bad,” and somehow violates the Constitution.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  128. Pence has the same kind of spine as Graham, Cruz, and Romney. Which is to say none.

    JRH (52aed3)

  129. Telling the head of a HOSTILE foreign government that you’ll be more flexible after the election is conspiracy to commit treason, but Obama’s DoJ didn’t see it that way.

    The open-mic episode reflected badly on Obama at the time, to be sure, but in retrospect, who’s to say he wasn’t lying to or bluffing the Russians?

    The quote in question was specifically about missile defense.

    What actually happened after the election was that a robust US/NATO missile defense program for Europe was initiated in May 2016, and the Russians hated it:

    “From the very outset we kept saying that in the opinion of our experts the deployment of an anti-missile defense poses a threat to Russia,” Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said, according to the Tass News Agency. “The question is not whether measures will be taken or not; measures are being taken to maintain Russia’s security at the necessary level.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  130. Telling the head of a HOSTILE foreign government that you’ll be more flexible after the election is conspiracy to commit treason, but Obama’s DoJ didn’t see it that way.

    Telling that same HOSTILE foreign government that you don’t care about them carrying out a cyber attack the United States is also treason.

    So by all means, go after Obama, but Obama=bad, doesn’t mean Trump=good.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  131. “He may be aware of all the schemes but at least he’s not crazy.”
    noel (f22371) — 9/30/2019 @ 12:31 pm

    How’s that working out for Kavanaugh?

    If we just get rid of Trump, they’ll lay off — said no sane person ever.

    Munroe (53beca)

  132. 128:

    We all know about losses in midterms, so come on, spare us the 2018 losses as those were Trump’s fault.

    But tell me again how the Boehner/Ryan GOP used its majorities to better the US up to 2016–so that voters would turn out for them. Built the Wall? Banned anchor babies? Limits on the # of benefit hungry refugees we take? Cut UN dues?

    Or even a ban on emotional support animals?

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  133. When they cut missile interceptors in half in central europe.

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  134. I posted this link on the previous thread, but I’ll post it here again.

    https://reason.com/2019/09/30/trumps-civil-war-tweet-isnt-criminal-this-other-tweet-might-be/

    I agree with Patterico. Posting tweets fomenting political division and purportedly calling for Civil War is one thing–it’s free speech! That’s just Trump being Trump. Idiocy reigns in a kakistocracy.

    But accusing a sitting member of Congress of fraud and treason for making a floor speech in either chamber, House or Senate, is literally unconstitutional. Calling for a whistleblower to be identified, questioned and thereby intimidated is illegal. Having a personal lawyer coerce foreign governments to investigate political opponents, while spouting conspiracy theories and making unfounded accusations on TV is downright un-American.

    Enough already, enough. Impeach this clown president, this mad wannabe medieval monarch, and force the Senate Republicans to excuse the inexcusable, defend the indefensible and rationalize the irrational. Should they not convict this utterly unfit president, let them pay for it at the ballot box. And they will, because the Republican party is bleeding supporters like a hemophiliac.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  135. Is there nothing that can’t (or won’t) be excused by “That’s just Trump being Trump”?

    Yes, bad ACTIONS won’t be excused. Wild language may be a reason to vote against Trump, but it hardly is a “High Crime”.

    David in Cal (0d5a1d)

  136. When the head of the justice department, pledges resistance, we’re supposed to ignore that.

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  137. Who needs an emotional support animal?

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  138. 18 USC 2383

    “Whoever incites… any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States… shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.”

    Sounds like another possible addition to an Articles of Impeachment, and this probably won’t be the last offense he commits between now and the impeachment vote. So far, we have…
    1. His enlisting a foreign government to investigate the current 2020 Democrat frontrunner.
    2. Ten incidences of obstruction of justice, per the Mueller report.
    3. His making hush-money payments to a pornstar to conceal his extra-marital affair until after the election.
    4. The thousands of lies he’s told to the American people, which is a violation of trust of the Office of the President.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  139. “Donald Trump must be removed from office… It can’t go on…”

    Yes, it can; ol’NYers know Trump’s verbal patter backwards and forwards. Like an old vaudevillian, he hasn’t changed it in years– because as twisted as it sounds, it has worked for him. Execs don’t cancel a hit show when the audience research tells ’em they “don’t want to be governed but wish to be entertained.” ‘Dallas’ got old after one season but JR Ewing, ‘the fella everybody loved to hate’ kept it going for 12 seasons. Reality TV star Trump will do 8.

    Average Americans know how the supposed ‘rule of law’ operates, too: Felicity Huffman will do more time than Donald Trump ever will– or Richard Nixon ever did.

    “Impeachment” is dramatic TeeVee. Great entertainment, too. But…

    “Ain’t nuttin’ gonna happen..” – ‘Quincy Maddox’

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiKrWUoTq4s

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  140. The ultimate loser in all this: Joe Biden.

    “A man with ten thousand dollars hid somewhere…” – Harry Powell [Robert Mitchum] ‘The Night Of The Hunter’ 1955

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  141. The ultimate loser in all this: Joe Biden.

    In this democratic party, Biden’s kid getting (legally) rich trading on the family name is not going to go over well. They’re defending him, sorta, now, but its just another black eye that he really didn’t need, a lie or not.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  142. The Republican Party in several states has announced that it will support Donald Trump as the Republican candidate for president and has no need for primary contests, caucuses or conventions prior to the 2020 election.

    One would assume that there must be a “plan B”, but is there and if so what does it look like?

    John B Boddie (11ac33)

  143. Schiff should be arrested for treason? For paraphrasing Trump’s call?

    And you thought Stephen Miller was the crazy onel.

    noel (f22371)

  144. “Telling the head of a HOSTILE foreign government that you’ll be more flexible after the election is conspiracy to commit treason, but Obama’s DoJ didn’t see it that way.”

    We’ve established that it doesn’t matter what the DOJ thinks, the president can’t be indicted. Republicans controlled both houses at the time, why didn’t they impeach?

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  145. So by all means, go after Obama, but Obama=bad, doesn’t mean Trump=good.

    No, it just means that there’s enough hypocrisy to go around, and some people’s Richter scales have a decided tilt.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  146. We all know about losses in midterms, so come on, spare us the 2018 losses as those were Trump’s fault.

    Some were, some weren’t. The losses in the formerly GOP parts of CA were due to 1) a BIG tax hike (>$10K for many) that had GOP voters in a huff, and 2) last-minute electoral rule changes that only the Dems were prepared for.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  147. And wikipedia, gratefully edits wikipedia, so no crime think is admitted

    Narciso (dceb8c)

  148. 149:

    True, the SALT deduction loss made life harder for Calif. But I don’t see a GOP voter voting against a republican for that. And if they did, well it has inhibited the reckless accrual of debt in blue states–a good thing from anyone’s view.

    And in Calif. as you know, lots of republicans simply don’t vote. They know it does not matter. It matters less and less every year. And the small numbers of republicans are being swamped by the rising # of immigrants, who were only maybe 7% of California in 1980, when the ancestors of present-day Never Trumpers insisted “no worry,”-immigration was a good thing.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  149. compare what they leave out, vs what they leave in,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hunter_Biden

    narciso (d1f714)

  150. Breaking- the conservative knives are out: WSJ reports SoS Pompeo was on the Ukraine call as well.

    Senate/POTUS plans torpedoed.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  151. #51

    Right, which is why some commenters in this blog (some commenting here in this thread) did exactly that in the past directed at Trump.

    Hey, I’ve been saying the same thing for three years. Our president has all the knowledge, judgment, and self-discipline of an ignorant, vindictive, verbally incontinent blog thread commenter.

    That was your point, wasn’t it?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  152. It is the President of the United States saying in no uncertain terms that he wants a U.S. Congressman questioned on suspicion of having committed treason.

    Really, where did TRump say Schiff should be ‘arrested and questioned for Treason”? He writes “Arrest for Treason?”

    Question mark. Not Exclamation point. Not “I demand he be arrested for Treason”. Sorry, you imagine things. The Never trumpers and Democrats do this ALL THE TIME. Trump suggests something, asks a question, hints, says “maybe”, etc. And the Never Trumpers then turn Trump’s statement in some hysterical DEMAND or give it some WEIRD INTERPRETATION to make him look bad.

    And of course, Trump has ZERO power to arrest a congressman for Treason. And he knows that. Which makes me wonder why you’re pretending that Trump doesn’t know that. But maybe that’s why TRump wants to the whistle-blower. “Dead men tell no Tales”? Right. In the Never trumper hysterical imagination.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  153. “That was your point, wasn’t it?”
    lurker (d8c5bc) — 9/30/2019 @ 2:10 pm

    Yep, precisely my point.

    The only difference is, Trump went through the trouble of getting elected and you didn’t.

    Munroe (53beca)

  154. To me the only interesting things are:

    1) Who is the WB blower
    2) When did WB contact Schiff and the D’s.
    3) Who wrote the IG complaint for him.
    4) Who changed the IG Form WB form to allow 2nd hand gossip and When and why.
    5) Who are these mysterious WH Officials told the WB all this information, most of which is false.

    This was a political hit job. As others have said. Just like the “Steele Dossier” Or Blaisy Ford’s attack on Kavanaugh.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  155. Shifty lied about Russian Collusion for months. Now he’s making a farce of impeachment…. But He hasn’t been arrested for treason or even bad taste… Then again, Hilliary was never arrested for numerous crimes, nor Mueller for farce, nor Brennan, nor Clapper, nor Comey, in fact it appears only bystanders have been arrested for crimes that had nothing to do with the underlying investigation…. Heck, our previous President made law up…that judges now defend…so much for the rule of law… As for Patterico’s whines…I have a hard time seeing the issues. Perhaps it’s the years of name calling has made me less inured to twitter speak…. or maybe, Trump’s right, Shifty is guilty of treason…he is reputed to have deep ties into the Ukraine…I remember when people like Patterico were so serious about calling the Special Counsel to investigate Trump….and there was no evidence…. now Patterico wants to impeach Trump over twitter….Really?? Perhaps Patterico has been in California too long…sigh

    jason stewart (54ea0f)

  156. BTW, we have Crazy hillary saying Trump did all kinds of illegitimate, unnamed things, to beat her in 2016. It was a “vast rightwing conspiracy”. No doubt if she runs again and beats Biden for the nomination, we’ll get David French – and the Bulwark Boys – supporting her! ’cause Conservatism.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  157. Rco, in the first tweet he said he wanted Schiff “questioned at the highest levels for Fraud and Treason”. Perhaps he imagines Barr waterboarding Schiff while he (Trump) listens from the next room, like Scarpia with Cavaradossi…

    Alright, I’m being rhetorical there, and Ocasio-Cortez is not about to sing Vissi d’arte. But Trump said “I want Schiff questioned…” right there in the first tweet.

    Kishnevi (f22b7e)

  158. 18. “It” will go on. Because no otherwise right-thinking individual has the courage to do what needs to be done. I take no pleasure in saying that and I respect you now as much as ever, Pat. But it is what it is — and the corruption runs deep and smelly on both sides of the aisle. There is not a dime’s worth of difference between the two major political parties.

    Gryph (08c844)

  159. Hi, Dave.

    DRJ (15874d)

  160. Munroe,

    Because Trump was elected, does that mean the rules don’t apply to him? For instance, treason means whatever he wants it to mean?

    DRJ (15874d)

  161. Its astounding how commentators on this blog write childish insults about Trump – every single day. I’d get tired of doing that after about 100 times in row. But the Never trumpers and libs just do it, day after day for almost 3 years now. That’s almost 1000 times.

    It must take a certain kind of mind to do that.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  162. For the umpteenth time, too, Trump is not just any random politician, with no power over criminal justice. That should make a difference to everyone, no matter on which side of the debate you may fall.

    Dana (05f22b)

  163. What’s really happened is the Establishment – which includes the Never trumpers – have decided they’re going to get rid of Trump BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. So, we get all the fake accusations, fake news, the fake scandal, and the fake outrage.

    Some people like Patterico of course are sincere in everything they write. But i wonder about many of the Never Trumpers. Does Jennifer Rubin or Max boot really believe the things they write about Trump?
    Its hard to imagine.

    Anyway, this refusal to accept a duly elected POTUS, is an insult to all those who voted for him and support him. This isn’t going to end well, unless the D’s come to their senses.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  164. 164. I don’t give a greasy brown s**t what you think of me. Do you agree or disagree with our host, and this OP?

    Gryph (08c844)

  165. 1) Who is the WB blower
    2) When did WB contact Schiff and the D’s.
    3) Who wrote the IG complaint for him.
    4) Who changed the IG Form WB form to allow 2nd hand gossip and When and why.
    5) Who are these mysterious WH Officials told the WB all this information, most of which is false.

    1) Fair question, actually.
    2) WB did not contact anyone in Congress. WB filed a complaint with the IG, and it was the IG who forwarded it to Congress. WB would know that would happen, but WB did not contact anyone himself.
    3) There is no evidence I know of that suggests WB did not write it himself.
    4) Red Herring. The change was made sometime ago.
    5) Identity of WH officials is another fair question. But the information is not false. We know it’s not false because much of it was confirmed as true by Trump and Guiliani, or appears verbatim in that phone transcript.

    Kishnevi (f22b7e)

  166. #165 fine. Tell specifically what Trump could do to “arrest Schiff and question him for treason”. He’s a member of congress. I’m curious. Lay in on me.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  167. In this democratic party, Biden’s kid getting (legally) rich trading on the family name is not going to go over well. They’re defending him, sorta, now, but its just another black eye that he really didn’t need, a lie or not.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 9/30/2019 @ 1:07 pm

    This makes me think that Hillary is weighing out exactly how much damage has been done to Biden, and that will greatly factor into her decision of whether or not to run. I think he would be her only real competition. As disliked as she is, she is a known quantity, and there is a huge faction that believe, along with her, that the election was essentially stolen from her. Not only do they believe that she deserves the presidency, but they believe that only she can take down Trump. (Which sorta doesn’t make sense, given 2016…but there you go.)

    Dana (05f22b)

  168. DRJ (15874d) — 9/30/2019 @ 2:37 pm

    No, it means that commenters here who have thrown treason jello at the wall for three years probably need to park it if they have a shred of credibility left.

    There’s an election coming up in thirteen months, at which point his treason/collusion/solicitation/bigotry/raping/bribing is destined to send him down to defeat by quadruple digits. Or, are you not sure?

    Munroe (53beca)

  169. 166. “By any means necessary” eh? I guess it’s a good thing that impeachment is in fact a constitutional (if rank political) remedy, huh?

    Gryph (08c844)

  170. It must take a certain kind of mind to do that.

    Given how often he resorts to childlike insults, I would say it takes a mind like Trump’s.

    Kishnevi (f22b7e)

  171. 171. “Commenters.” There you go again. Are you going to grow a pair and call out Pat on this? Or are you going to continue to smear the commenters here without addressing Pat’s central thesis (that Donald J. Trump is unfit for office)?

    Gryph (08c844)

  172. harkin at 117. I think every parent whose kid had tried to give herself a home hairstyle (that’s about all of us) reached for the salt shaker when they read that story. The detail of blaming three white boys for it is from the race-hustling, grievance-mongering culture festering for half a century.

    nk (dbc370)

  173. #168 – the complaint is written as a legal document. A CIA man, as described by the NYT, is not a lawyer. And SChiff got the complaint BEFORE the IG Released it. I thought you knew that.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  174. #171 when I write commentators I mean commentators – not Patterico. He’s not responsible what you write or what I write. Nor is it my job to repeat other people’s arguments about what Patterico wrote on a 176 comment blog post.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  175. Kishnevi (f22b7e) — 9/30/2019 @ 2:33 pm

    Heh. I enjoyed your comment. Thank you.

    felipe (023cc9)

  176. #171 – and why don’t YOU address the central thesis. And be sure to tell us exactly what it is, and why you agree. In detail.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  177. 177. It’s no more your job to comment on Patterico than it is to comment on commenters. I’m just not a big fan of the passive-aggressive bulls**t you “orange man God” types tend to spew. It seems to me that if I replace the word “Commenters” with “Patterico” in most of your comments on Pat’s threads, the meaning would hold, and might even be clearer.

    Gryph (08c844)

  178. Its astounding how commentators on this blog write childish insults about Trump – every single day. I’d get tired of doing that after about 100 times in row. But the Never trumpers and libs just do it, day after day for almost 3 years now. That’s almost 1000 times.

    It must take a certain kind of mind to do that.

    I have a very good mind. A very, very large mind which China admires. I am a stable genius. I’ve been to the best schools. I should have had the Nobel prize for a lot of things if they gave it out fairly.

    nk (dbc370)

  179. 179. I think I made it pretty clear over the last couple of years that I think Donald J. Trump is unfit for office, for this and a whole host of other reasons. I also believe that Pat has believed so for a lot longer than the moment he posted this, but only recently was able to bring himself to say it. If you don’t know where I stand on this particular matter of Trump’s larger fitness for office, you haven’t been paying attention.

    Gryph (08c844)

  180. I want Schiff questioned at the highest level for Fraud & Treason.

    To me, this is obviouly Trump asking the R’s in congress (the highest levels) to question schiff’s fraud and treason in Congressional speeches. Maybe even try a censure. Seems Ok to me.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  181. nk (dbc370) — 9/30/2019 @ 2:53 pm

    Heh, another good one!

    felipe (023cc9)

  182. 183. Treason is a crime defined in the constitution. In fact, it’s the only crime defined in the constitution. The penalty for treason is up to and including death. As recently as 1974, there was still the possibility of public hanging for it. That Trump would bandy about such a crime so casually says as much about the sad state of American civics education as anything else.

    Gryph (08c844)

  183. But tell me again how the Boehner/Ryan GOP used its majorities to better the US up to 2016

    Sure thing.

    Reduced the budget deficit from 9.8% of GDP to 2.4% in 2015 and 3.1% in 2016. (Under Trump, it is already back up to 4.6%, despite a growing economy).

    Kept Merrick Garland off the Supreme Court.

    Blocked numerous bad Obama policies on immigration, gun-control, energy and health care.

    Dave (1bb933)

  184. ‘“Commenters.” There you go again. Are you going to grow a pair and call out Pat on this? Or are you going to continue to smear the commenters here without addressing Pat’s central thesis (that Donald J. Trump is unfit for office)?’
    Gryph (08c844) — 9/30/2019 @ 2:46 pm

    I’m not calling out Mr. Pat. To his credit, he hasn’t thrown the treason jello around. Not to my knowledge. Do you know different?

    That said, Trump is fit for office according to those who voted last election. If there’s a different measure of fitness, spell it out. That may require you to grow a pair.

    Munroe (53beca)

  185. Oops, rcocean, you forgot this nugget from Trump:

    Arrest for Treason?

    Dana (05f22b)

  186. As recently as 1974, there was still the possibility of public hanging for it.

    In old England, the nobility were entitled to be hanged with a silk rope. Is the President, being the Commander in Chief, entitled to a military execution by musketry, or does he get the needle like any other traitor?

    nk (dbc370)

  187. 187. If you believe that Trump is fit for office, you better hope that the Republicans in the Senate don’t turn on you, then. Since it seems rather lost on you, I’ll remind you once again that impeachment is a political process rather than a legal one. And casual mention of a crime punishable by death (which treason absolutely is) is just the latest in a long line of reasons that Senate Republicans might not be so buddy-buddy with Trump if impeachment articles pass the House.

    Gryph (08c844)

  188. Lawyers can be CIA operatives. I thought you knew that.
    As for the second point, all I can find is an unsigned article on OANN that cites an August tweet from Schiff that doesn’t exist (I just scrolled through his Twitterfeed all the way back to mid July, and no such tweer appears). So I am inclined to say you’re wrong about that one.

    Kishnevi (f22b7e)

  189. 189. I think you misunderstand, nk. I don’t believe Trump is guilty of treason. It is Trump who is bandying about the term casually. It means something very specific, and something constitutionally defined. I’m fine with seeing Trump removed from office; that will remove a major obstacle to charging him with whatever crimes may be discovered in the meantime.

    Gryph (08c844)

  190. you do what you want, you see what they threatening to do to this country, in these debates,

    narciso (d1f714)

  191. Jim Geraghty – Hunter Biden: The Most Comprehensive Timeline

    Seems like a pretty complete and fair (and not particularly flattering) account of HB’s business dealings.

    Dave (1bb933)

  192. @141. “So far we have…”

    Reads like the scripted list from the SNL skit: see the youtube clip in #142.

    ‘Ain’t nuttin’ gonna happen…’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  193. What’s really happened is the Establishment – which includes the Never trumpers – have decided they’re going to get rid of Trump BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. So, we get all the fake accusations, fake news, the fake scandal, and the fake outrage.

    Ooh, I had no idea I was Establishment, me some pseudonymous dude on the Internet 3,000 miles from the Beltway. Or that I want to get rid of him BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY (the reality is that I’ll take impeachment or the 25th Amendment as the means). Or that the accusations and news and outrage are fake, or that this scandal is fake. Seems to me that most of the FakeNews is coming from Trump and his minions, such as:
    The whistleblower rules changed! Fakenews.
    Biden pushed out a Ukrainian prosecutor investigating his son! Fakenews.
    Hunter Biden made a killing on a China deal! Fakenews.
    Biden lied about talking to his son! Fakenews.
    Democratic senators also threatened Ukraine’s aid! Fakenews.
    The whistleblower complaint is illegitimate because it’s secondhand sources! Fakenews.
    And it just goes on and on.

    Paul Montagu (6186c5)

  194. “If you believe that Trump is fit for office, you better hope that the Republicans in the Senate don’t turn on you, then.”
    Gryph (08c844) — 9/30/2019 @ 3:06 pm

    You had better hope that, too.

    The Dems depend on Republicans who will cave and wilt, whether it’s about Trump, Kavanaugh or (insert your favorite candidate here).

    Munroe (53beca)

  195. 186, Gee Dave, I have to regard that as a purposeful “check some boxes” response, not up to your usual reasoned response.

    Voters didn’t feel commitment from the GOP’s fungible candidates. Aside from not banning emotional support animals on flights, fat people from single seats, more than 5 years of spousal support, or capping student loans for “Studies,” majors, they did nothing but sit there. Which was what they did in 2000-2006.

    Immigration: Jeb! felt that people pouring over the border should be responded to as an act of love. Rubio endorsed some “gang of 8” plan. None ever DID anything to oppose unlimited immigration: no wall, no cap on refugees. Very half-hearted. Like they always were.

    Blocking Garland wasn’t the same as winning the WH to nominate someone else. And none of the 2016 Karl Rove windups would have had the balls to stick it out (so to speak) with Kavanagh. They’d have folded.

    Not one of them would have pulled out from the Paris Agrt either.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  196. 197. I’m not depending on the Senate Republicans to do jack-s**t for me. I don’t think they will vote to remove. If they do decide in sufficient numbers that Trump needs to go, then all the talk of FRAUD and TREASON from the Oval Office won’t amount to dick.

    Gryph (08c844)

  197. And none of the 2016 Karl Rove windups would have had the balls to stick it out (so to speak) with Kavanagh. They’d have folded.

    In the real world, Kavanaugh has the competence and fortitude of Grassley, McConnell and Graham to thank for his confirmation.

    Trump was a clueless spectator, whose most valuable contribution to the effort was to occasionally keep his mouth shut for a day or two.

    Dave (1bb933)

  198. To me, this is obviouly Trump asking the R’s in congress (the highest levels) to question schiff’s fraud and treason in Congressional speeches. Maybe even try a censure. Seems Ok to me.

    Again, that’s a you problem. Words have meaning, Treason has a meaning.

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

    The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

    Between Schiff and Trump, Trump’s actions are much, much, much closer. Still, it doesn’t rise to a capital offense such as treason. Impeachment is wholly appropriate, convict him, or not, re-elect him, or not, charge him for obstruction, campaign finance violations, or not. America will get the results of each step, fully informed.

    Oh, and to exactly no ones surprise, he also asked the Australians to investigate their folks for reporting papadapadou to the CIA. Not in January of 2017, but in 2019. Australia, to there credit, did the appropriate thing, they ignored him. Do we think it was only the Ukrainians, or Australians, or Russians? Or was this a standard request of every government whenever he could corner a representative, there’s a reason everyone avoids him like the plague and he has done zero deals.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  199. Looks like the Australian PM told Trump he was “ready to assist” on a call with him, then didn’t, because of course not.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  200. Oops, rcocean, you forgot this nugget from Trump

    I addressed this in #155

    rcocean (1a839e)

  201. he has done zero deals

    That’s not really fair, Klink.

    The Saudis did give him a cool-looking necklace for bowing to their king.

    He also got Otto Warmbier’s still-breathing corpse for free from his dear friend Little Rocket Man.

    Dave (1bb933)

  202. Treason has many meanings and definitions. Not just one. Read a dictionary.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  203. Treason has many meanings and definitions. Not just one. Read a dictionary.

    rcocean (1a839e) — 9/30/2019 @ 4:15 pm

    Legally, it means one thing in the United States Constitution. To argue otherwise is to essentially cede that you’re okay with Trump using it as a weapon, like kings and queens of old.

    Gryph (08c844)

  204. yes, Obama had let him rot, his intelligence bureaucracy was focused on other matters than Ukrainian sourced boosters,

    https://www.steynonline.com/9759/blackface-narcissus

    narciso (d1f714)

  205. Trump hater logic:

    1. Trump said the word “Treason”
    2. There is only 1 meaning for the word. See Constitution
    3. Trump therefore wants Shiff tried for Treason per the Constitution in a court of law.

    Remember when Trump said “Wiretap” and all the Trump haters said “haha, the FBI doesn’t tap wires anymore”. ‘Cause there was only ONE Meaning to the word “Wiretap”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  206. Treason has many meanings and definitions. Not just one. Read a dictionary.

    Dude, that is literally Article 3 of the Constitution. Of the United States. Of America.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  207. I never said that Trump wants Schiff tried for Treason. What I said, and what I agree with Pat on, is that Trump’s reckless abandon in his usage of the word “treason” outside of its specific legal meaning, is one reason (out of scores of reasons) that I believe Trump is unfit for office.

    Gryph (08c844)

  208. Trump hater logic

    Or just logic. But, great argument, words don’t mean what they mean, when Trump says the words, they can only mean other things than their meaning, you must tune the meaning after the fact to make it less moronic. Awesome.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  209. Protip: If Trump does not want Schiff arrested for Treason, it’s a good idea not to float that idea (with or without a question mark) in a social media forum.

    Gryph (08c844)

  210. Trump hater logic

    Or just logic. But, great argument, words don’t mean what they mean, when Trump says the words, they can only mean other things than their meaning, you must tune the meaning after the fact to make it less moronic. Awesome.

    Cultist logic:

    Hey, man, you don’t talk to the Orange Man. You listen to him. The man’s enlarged my mind. He’s a poet-warrior in the classic sense. I mean sometimes he’ll, uh, well, you’ll say hello to him, right? And he’ll just walk right by you, and he won’t even notice you. And suddenly he’ll grab you, and he’ll throw you in a corner, and he’ll say do you know that if is the middle word in life? If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you – I mean I’m no, I can’t – I’m a little man, I’m a little man, he’s, he’s a great man. I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas…

    Dave (1bb933)

  211. Treason has many meanings and definitions. Not just one. Read a dictionary.

    Yes, yes, it does.
    High treason:
    1. Trying to overthrow the king.
    2. Killing the king.
    3. Sleeping with the queen.
    4. The queen sleeping with someone not the king.
    Petty treason:
    1. A wife killing her husband.
    2. An employee killing his employer.
    3. A clergyman killing his prelate.
    4. An employee sleeping with his employer’s wife.
    5. An employee forging his employer’s signature.
    American treason under the Constitution:
    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

    So … which one was Le Grand Orange talking about?

    nk (dbc370)

  212. In my experience, Orange county Rs are fiscal conservatives. They vote R despite the social issues, not because of them. If the Rs are costing them significantly, they’ll vote D instead because they are closer on social issues.

    Nic (896fdf)

  213. Where can we buy the Dump Trump baseball hats ?
    And will we be able to wear them safely in public. ?

    McKiernan (e30982)

  214. Yawn, hysterics, yawn! Two plus years of unethical behavior in a effort to overturn an election….yawn……Nothing treason like going on here…..yawn.

    Rich (995a5b)

  215. So … which one was Le Grand Orange talking about?

    Maybe Schiff and Melania have cuckolded him?

    Dave (1bb933)

  216. Yawn, hysterics, yawn! Two plus years of unethical behavior in a effort to overturn an election….yawn……Nothing treason like going on here…..yawn.

    Well your probably right at 2 years, I’d say 3 years in politics, but it’s really closer to 60 years of unethical behavior. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt between toddler-tween, although I’m not sure that isn’t the same as now, based on his ability to reason.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  217. Trump wasn’t the first to call his political opponents behavior treasonist.
    I don’t mind him playing by their rules.
    Can you explain why it bothers you?

    Sure. I’ll give you a link to my explanation. Here you go:

    https://patterico.com/2019/09/30/donald-trump-must-be-removed-from-office/

    Patterico (115b1f)

  218. The Republican Party in several states has announced that it will support Donald Trump as the Republican candidate for president and has no need for primary contests, caucuses or conventions prior to the 2020 election.

    One would assume that there must be a “plan B”, but is there and if so what does it look like?

    Impeach, remove, and run Pence. The sooner the better.

    I’m not saying this will happen. But if Republicans had any principles (I know, I know) it would.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  219. 221. Republicans? Principles? That’s a pretty big IF right there, don’t you think, Boss?

    Gryph (08c844)

  220. President Trump uses the word treason, and leftist lose the collective minds.

    Obama as a sitting President directs The intell community, enlisting the aide of foreign intell agencies spy on the political campaigns of Democrat rivals, and all is good. President Trump is elected to office and his family suspends new foreign business ventures. Biden takes office, and his family starts up foreign business ventures.

    If leftist didn’t have double standards they wouldn’t have any standards at all.

    iowan2 (9c8856)

  221. Impeach, remove, and run Pence. The sooner the better.

    This would be a great way for the GOP to begin to redeem the party.

    Dana (05f22b)

  222. “Obama as a sitting President directs The intell community, enlisting the aide of foreign intell agencies spy on the political campaigns of Democrat rivals”

    Gosh, that sounds pretty bad. I wonder why Obama wasn’t impeached, despite Republican control of both houses.

    Davethulhu (fe4242)

  223. Trump believes he is the law, and therefore is the only law worth caring about.

    Roper: So now you’d give the Devil benefit of law?

    More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

    Roper: I’d cut down every law in England to do that!

    More: Oh? And, when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you – where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country’s planted thick with laws from coast to coast – man’s laws, not God’s – and, if you cut them down – and you’re just the man to do it – d’you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake.

    Rip Murdock (31088f)

  224. 224. Dana, Pat, I’ll be honest with you; I don’t see it happening. I would like it to happen. But I don’t see the Republican Party — or the Federal Government for that matter — redeeming themselves. They have too much to lose and too little to gain by doing the right thing.

    Gryph (08c844)

  225. Pence sold his soul when he became Trump’s apologist.

    Rip Murdock (31088f)

  226. 228. There is not a single soul in Babylon-on-Potomac that I would trust with the reins of the federal government. That said, I still believe that impeaching Trump is the right thing to do at this juncture, which is precisely why I also believe it won’t happen.

    Gryph (08c844)

  227. “Gosh, that sounds pretty bad. I wonder why Obama wasn’t impeached, despite Republican control of both houses.”
    Davethulhu (fe4242) — 9/30/2019 @ 7:37 pm

    If there’s some kind of retroactive impeachment clause I don’t know about — hoo boy, JFK and Harding are in big trouble.

    Munroe (53beca)

  228. “Impeach, remove, and run Pence. The sooner the better.”

    This would be a great way for the GOP to begin to redeem the party.

    Dana

    Pence’s hand will be on the bible, taking the Oath, and he will have not finished his “so help God” and Some Dem will be demanding impeachment proceeding be started.

    iowan2 (9c8856)

  229. “Some Dem” singular, at most a number of Dems depicted by metacarpals and metatarsals. The only screech against Pence will be the alphabet soup and women who know where to find morning after pills blindfolded. The POC, remnants of Bidensphere/DLC and Antipasto will be OK with it, underestimating his chances in a general election.

    urbanleftbehind (197871)

  230. Munroe, consider things being square with JFK b/c of RFK and JFK Jr…but you gonna bring the shovels to the graveyard on the others?

    urbanleftbehind (197871)

  231. Pence’s hand will be on the bible, taking the Oath, and he will have not finished his “so help God” and Some Dem will be demanding impeachment proceeding be started.

    So? Unlike now, there would be no basis for such impeachment.

    Rather than worrying about what the Dems will do, the GOP should put its own affairs in order; starting with getting rid of the raving imbecile in the White House.

    Dave (1bb933)

  232. Pence sold his soul when he became Trump’s apologist.

    Oh, I agree. Don’t get me wrong: the guy is a spineless weasel. But I’ll take him over Trump any day.

    I know it won’t happen. But a guy can dream.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  233. “So? Unlike now, there would be no basis for such impeachment.”
    Dave (1bb933) — 9/30/2019 @ 8:33 pm

    What color are the unicorns in the world of theory?

    As the famous saying goes, a Trump supporter is a conservative who’s been mugged by reality.

    Munroe (53beca)

  234. There are always going to people in both parties who push for impeachment at the slightest hint that someone somewhere in the darkest of nights while alone in the bathroom at 3:00 AM might have had an improper thought that they didn’t broadcast in any way. This doesn’t mean that it should be discarded as a tool that sometimes needs to be used.

    Ryan/Boehner had plenty of time in 2015/2016 to impeach Obama if they wanted to when they had the Senate as well as the house, and they didn’t. They could’ve done it before they had the Senate and they didn’t. They didn’t really think there was anything seriously wrong, they were just trying to gin up the base. Your sources are lying to you.

    Nic (896fdf)

  235. As the famous saying goes, a Trump supporter is a conservative who’s been mugged by reality.

    That’s not the saying, never was, as with all things things Trump, complexity is the enemy. The simple version “A Trump supporter is an idiot.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  236. Another Trump lie debunked.
    https://theresurgent.com/2019/09/30/intelligence-inspector-general-says-whistleblower-used-the-2018-form-and-had-firsthand-information/
    The whistleblower also had firsthand information, and the whistleblower form hasn’t changed since May 2018. Sean Davis hardest hit.

    Paul Montagu (75e895)

  237. Spineless Weasel……….isn’t that replacing the elephant? There is no redeeming the Republican Party. They’ve been a spineless bunch of hen pecked Bs for decades now. Expecting a redemption is to vastly underestimate what it would take to redeem them. Dying on a cross inverted would be a start, but that may prove inadequate. There are no spotless characters in politics anymore.

    Rich (995a5b)

  238. Thinking about what is important, the things they actually do instead of telling us should get done, maybe this time, maybe next time, but for sure this next time definitely, has given me some clarity. You know what Republicans always get done? The one thing they don’t have any trouble committing themselves on? Tax breaks for really really rich people. Sometimes they pass them in conjunction with tax breaks for the middle class, but sometimes just by themselves (*cough*estate tax*cough*). So the real question is, I guess, what is the chance they manage to accidentally do something you care about if you aren’t a really rich person? And how do you know that you’ll get anything?

    (The Dems, on the other hand, don’t really seem to have any unifying issue and are a mass of chaos and misery which is also a wreck.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  239. President Pence??? ROFLMAO!

    You don’t cancel ‘Dallas‘ and replace it with ‘My Mother The Car.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  240. Impeach, remove, and run Pence. The sooner the better.

    I like Pence less. I’m not real keen on theocrats. Impeach him by Thanksgiving and have the vote before the end of the year, allowing a shortened, but real, contest if he’s removed.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  241. If the Democrats want to remove Trump, they have to give the GOP a way out. If they dawdle and vote impeachment next June, not one Republican Senator will go along. Let them vote this December and there’s a lot of politics to play out — especially if Trump manages to dig the hole deeper.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  242. … Pence’s hand will be on the bible, taking the Oath, and he will have not finished his “so help God” and Some Dem will be demanding impeachment proceeding be started.

    So? Unlike now, there would be no basis for such impeachment.

    That depends on whether Pence’s hand is smoking.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  243. Nic, Trump’s tax cuts cost every rich Californian money. Lots of money. He cost ME $10K on a house sale in CA (as I escaped).

    Kevin M (19357e)

  244. Most Americans wish Californians would go away, as in leave. What a pathetic schiff hole these people live in. Californians are the worst thing in America. They live in a fricking garbage dump.

    mg (8cbc69)

  245. Evidently, both Trump and Giuliani have a long history dealing with Ukrainians and corruption. That explains a lot of how they’re handling this situation.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-and-rudy-giuliani-connections-to-sam-kislin-and-ukraine-corruption-go-back-decades?ref=home

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  246. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/10/01/smart-move-flynn-lawyer-tells-judge-motive-behind-why-flynn-took-guilty-plea/#more-172512
    America needs to redo all district attorneys and the dopes working under them. Purge the crooked injustice to us all.

    mg (8cbc69)

  247. Most Americans wish Californians would go away, as in leave. What a pathetic schiff hole these people live in. Californians are the worst thing in America. They live in a fricking garbage dump.

    mg (8cbc69) — 10/1/2019 @ 2:19 am

    What a disgusting and vile thing to say. I was going to look up the number of conservatives living there, the amount of food that is farmed there, and the amount of new jobs created in California. But I doubt you’re going to be persuaded by facts like that. California is affiliated with an opposing tribe so you have to hate them. For you it’s as simple as that.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  248. mg is a Minnesotan. Did you know that there has been a secret war between the United States and Canada over possession of Minnesota since 1818? The United States periodically moves the US-Canada border markers from the northern boundary of Minnesota to the northern boundary of Iowa. Specially-formed teams of Canadian commandos then go into action. They replace the markers to their original position on the northern boundary of Minnesota.

    nk (dbc370)

  249. mg’s comment regarding California is not entirely wrong, BTW. It’s just that, as Time123 points out, it paints with too broad of brush. California is a beautiful state, but it was invaded by a non-indigenous, destructive species starting in the ’60s, and not through fault of its own. What happened is that New Jersey and California were designated to take either the toxic waste dumps or the hippies, and New Jersey got first pick.

    nk (dbc370)

  250. “I mean, is adultery no longer a big deal in Indiana and in America? I’d just love to know your thoughts because I for one believe that the seventh commandment contained in the Ten Commandments is still a big deal. I maintain that other than promises that we make of fidelity in our faith, the promises that we make to our spouses and to our children, the promises that we make in churches and in synagogues and marriage ceremonies around this, it’s the most important promise you’ll ever make. And holding people accountable to those promises and holding people accountable to respecting the promises that other people make, to me, what could possibly be a bigger deal than that in this country?”

    Mike Pence in 1997.

    Amazing how Trump quieted that particular kind of sanctimony.

    JRH (52aed3)

  251. People grow up. Twenty-two years, a lot people might have thought, and rightly so, that I was a sanctimonious asshole who didn’t know what he was talking about, too. The material world is unavoidably imperfect and corruptible, and so are people.

    nk (dbc370)

  252. @254. True enough. Quite a few Republicans were still talking like this in 2016. I’m kind of glad to see it stop — not the caring about morality, but grandstanding about morality for political purposes. It was transparently false.

    JRH (52aed3)

  253. An affair with a subordinate in the white house, which was abetted by perjury do you grok context, and there was evidence.

    Narciso (37bd1e)

  254. The whistleblower also had firsthand information, and the whistleblower form hasn’t changed since May 2018. Sean Davis hardest hit.

    Paul Montagu

    There was no first hand information in the WB complaint. We all have lots of first hand information. None of germane to subject at hand. Thus your response is not germane to this subject.

    iowan2 (9c8856)

  255. “Most Americans wish Californians would go away, as in leave. ”

    Almost as many people voted for Trump in LA county as voted for him in the entire state of Iowa.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  256. Why [clutches pearls, falls on fainting couch] I do declare! I heard that those awful police will just go out and investigate people for a crime just because some 911 operator tells them that someone called her on the phone and said there was one, and neither they nor the operator have any firsthand knowledge of anything that happened! What is this country coming to? Where is due process?

    nk (dbc370)

  257. Orange man makes polar bears sad, thats all you need, so this great gazoo snipehunt is still going on, is he purple does he wear a helmet.

    Narciso (37bd1e)

  258. Biden’s flagging prospects is certainly a crime that merits a 911 call.

    Munroe (53beca)

  259. 263. Maybe Biden’s flagging prospects is the reason someone thinks an impeachment is merited, eh? Wink wink, nudge nudge?

    Gryph (08c844)

  260. Maybe Biden’s flagging prospects is the reason someone thinks an impeachment is merited, eh? Wink wink, nudge nudge?

    Trump? Giuliani?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  261. 265. As the presider in the House, Pelosi ultimately has responsibility for setting the agenda. Republicans aren’t the only ones with dirty hands in this mess. I think something big is going to blow up and we’ll see what it is when this mess gets to the Senate — as long as Senate leadership doesn’t cover it up.

    Gryph (08c844)

  262. While people continue to lose their minds because of Twitter, the left continues to indoctrinate and destroy the education system in the real world…
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/woke-math-in-seattle/

    NJRob (8303a1)

  263. 265: You’re right. 100% right.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  264. 246:

    Bite it: Its not California’s fault: republicans there pleaded for years for action on immigration and got zip from Clinton, Bush I and Bush II.

    The establishment republicans knew better: we “needed” more border crossings not less, for business. And it was an act of love etc.

    Now there are 15 m people here who don’t speak English at home. 15 million. And guess how they vote? (Thanks for all the help).

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  265. 265 – Yup. But let’s waste time and energy impeaching Trump over what he says on Twitter. D.GOOCH

    Donald Gooch (3b3c3d)

  266. I wake up in my garbage dump in California with a great view of the ocean and beautiful weather every day.

    Rip Murdock (31088f)

  267. 270. There are other good reasons to get rid of him, Gooch. No one of his moral calibers belongs on a national ticket PERIOD, let alone anywhere near the oval office.

    Gryph (08c844)

  268. @245 Yes, but that was the very specific circumstances of him hating California. And ugh on your cost. I got hit too, but for much less.

    Nic (896fdf)

  269. Trump’s on the TeeVee in a presser, and he is insane. Literally un-sane. He brain broke. Insane and stupid, not a good combo.

    I mean, he’s REALLY insane, lock him up in the crazy house, feed him ketamine or thorazine, or another ‘zine, level crazy.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  270. 7. Appalled (d07ae6) — 9/30/2019 @ 8:03 am

    But what do you think of the President demanding that a political opponent “be questioned at the highest level for Fraud & Treason…..”

    Oh, Adam Schiff did everything Donald Trump said he did in that tweet.

    But it’s unconstitutional for the executivee branch, or the legal system. to question him about anything for what he says in Congress, and that includes while presiding over a Congressional committee. (courts have held)

    https://constitutionus.com

    Article O, Section 6, Clause 1: Section 6

    1: The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States.6 They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place

    Do you kno why Donald Trump said that?

    Because he knows it won’t happen!

    He’s trying to heighten his degree of victimization. i.e. what Adam Schiff did was so bad he should questioned “at the highest level” (?) for Fraud & Treason

    And then let people say for him: And the Democrats don’t do anything at all – not even remove him as head of the Intelligence Committee. Or recuse himself from this investigation.

    That’s what he’s gettng at.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  271. Donald Trump:

    Arrest for Treason?

    No. It’s not treason, r anything close. And he can’t be arrested on any charge for what he said there.

    Article I, Section 6, Clause 1 of the United States constitution.

    At least Doald Trump put a question mark there.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  272. Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 10/1/2019 @ 9:21 am

    And guess how they vote?

    Against peole who hate them, or make war against their unalienable right to the pursuit of happiness.

    Now I wonder why that should be surprising to you.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  273. 214. nk (dbc370) — 9/30/2019 @ 4:42 pm

    which one was Le Grand Orange talking about?

    Oh, Trump’s definition of treason is clearly deliberately acting in a way you know will harm the country for your own personal benefit.

    But that’s not the legal definition of treason.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  274. Looking for top branded 380 ammo at best price. Browse Bulk Cheap Ammo, we have an amazingly deals on popular caliber including; 223 Ammo, 9mm Luger and many more.

    BulkCheapAmmo (a81f07)

  275. Looking for top branded 380 ammo at best price. Browse Bulk Cheap Ammo, we have an amazingly deals on popular caliber including; 223 Ammo, 9mm Luger and many more.

    Just in time for the debut of Joker … what luck!

    Dave (1bb933)

  276. #273 —

    So Sammy — our President, who has sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution, is tweeting out unconstitutional suggestions because nobody will do it, but the base(tm)will love the rough tough suggested fascism?

    That’s pretty convoluted thinking, and puts the Constitution at risk.

    Well, Trump world is a pretty convoluted place.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  277. Oh, incidentally, Trump supporters. Is the below an accurate reading of the Trump theory of the Deep State conspiracy? I realize there is more than a little snark in the piece — but is it generally accurate? If not, what dos this guy have wrong?

    https://thebulwark.com/this-is-what-reality-looks-like-from-inside-trump-world/

    Appalled (1a17de)

  278. Why [clutches pearls, falls on fainting couch] I do declare! I heard that those awful police will just go out and investigate people for a crime just because some 911 operator tells them that someone called her on the phone and said there was one, and neither they nor the operator have any firsthand knowledge of anything that happened! What is this country coming to? Where is due process?
    nk (dbc370) — 10/1/2019 @ 8:14 am

    Isn’t that called “swatting?” I think we all know someone here that fell victim to that cruel practice.

    felipe (023cc9)

  279. Full discloser: I laughed at nk’s comment because it was funny – until it wasn’t.

    felipe (023cc9)

  280. Bulwinkle, they dont know the meaning of the word.

    Narciso (c61b52)

  281. Well, “Deep State: may be like yuppie in the 80s, hipster and millennial…it all depends on who you ask: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/03/trump-steve-bannon-deep-state-conspiracy-theory

    urbanleftbehind (513935)

  282. The following is also not funny

    SWATTING

    Swatting!
    How I love you, how I love you
    the practice swatting!

    To make a call that’s free
    And cause such pain and
    Agony and risk of dying

    Knowing
    evidence is non-existent
    Won’t stop it happ’ning

    ‘Cause bearing false witness is the way
    To make all your opponents pay!

    felipe (023cc9)

  283. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

    Swatting is a glitch in the 911 system, but that it exactly how the 911 system operates in all the 99.9999999% of instances that are not swattings. So laugh with a clean conscience, felipe.

    nk (dbc370)

  284. Thanks, man I can always count on you!

    felipe (023cc9)

  285. 281. Swatting is usuall when someone not only lies about a crime, or impending crime, or suicide, but lies about who they are and where they are calling from.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)


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