Hollywood Actress: Shut-Up About Protecting Unborn Babies If You Want To Execute Vicious Child Killers
[guest post by Dana]
I don’t usually care what Hollywood folk think about issues because, why?? However, in light of the federal government’s decision to resume capital punishment after nearly two decades, it’s interesting to see the huge disconnect when it comes to abortion, particularly third-trimester abortion and capital punishment. The fight against putting to death those found guilty while vigorously fighting for the right to kill those who are innocent is a popular position. Just look at what some of the Democratic presidential candidates said when the decision to resume capital punishment was made public.
Anyway, here’s the lead-in to actress/activist Alyssa Milano’s damning tweet: Milano was called out for supporting Planned Parenthood: “Murdered like ya PLANNED PARENTHOOD? Murdered like THAT? Is that what you mean?”
Your administration just reinstated the death penalty and scheduled 5 executions of *actual* people. You’ve lost the right to pull your, “pro-life” narrative-talking-point- bullshit with me.
In Milano’s twisted view, it’s perfectly reasonable to draw an equivalence between viciously depraved criminals and innocent, unborn babies. And of course the unborn babies are not recognized by Milano as having personhood. That must be avoided at all costs when trying to justify the killing of them.
Let’s take a look at what those “five *actual* people” did to end up on the short-list for execution. [Ed. Because of how gruesome and disturbing the details of their crimes are, I am not publishing them in full. However, you can go to the links provided at the end of each snapshot and read for yourself. But be forewarned: some details are simply unspeakable.]
Daniel Lewis Lee, a member of a white supremacist group, murdered a family of three, including an eight-year-old girl. After robbing and shooting the victims with a stun gun, Lee covered their heads with plastic bags, sealed the bags with duct tape, weighed down each victim with rocks, and threw the family of three into the Illinois bayou. On May 4, 1999, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas found Lee guilty of numerous offenses, including three counts of murder in aid of racketeering, and he was sentenced to death. Lee’s execution is scheduled to occur on Dec. 9, 2019. Court of Appeals, Eighth Circuit.
Lezmond Mitchell stabbed to death a 63-year-old grandmother and forced her nine-year-old granddaughter to sit beside her lifeless body for a 30 to 40-mile drive. Mitchell then slit the girl’s throat twice, crushed her head with 20-pound rocks, and severed and buried both victims’ heads and hands. On May 8, 2003, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the District of Arizona found Mitchell guilty of numerous offenses, including first degree murder, felony murder, and carjacking resulting in murder, and he was sentenced to death. Mitchell’s execution is scheduled to occur on Dec. 11, 2019. Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.
Wesley Ira Purkey violently raped and murdered a 16-year-old girl, and then dismembered, burned, and dumped the young girl’s body in a septic pond. He also was convicted in state court for using a claw hammer to bludgeon to death an 80-year-old woman who suffered from polio and walked with a cane. On Nov. 5, 2003, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Missouri found Purkey guilty of kidnapping a child resulting in the child’s death, and he was sentenced to death. Purkey’s execution is scheduled to occur on Dec. 13, 2019. Court of Appeals, Eighth Circuit.
Alfred Bourgeois physically and emotionally tortured, sexually molested, and then beat to death his two-and-a-half-year-old daughter. On March 16, 2004, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas found Bourgeois guilty of multiple offenses, including murder, and he was sentenced to death. Bourgeois’ execution is scheduled to occur on Jan. 13, 2020. Court of Appeals, Fifth Circuit.
Dustin Lee Honken shot and killed five people—two men who planned to testify against him and a single, working mother and her ten-year-old and six-year-old daughters. On Oct. 14, 2004, a jury in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Iowa found Honken guilty of numerous offenses, including five counts of murder during the course of a continuing criminal enterprise, and he was sentenced to death. Honken’s execution is scheduled to occur on Jan. 15, 2020. Court of Appeals, Eighth Circuit.
Now I want to share with you what that the unborn baby did to deserve the death penalty:
It’s ironic that innocent babies in the womb are killed through more brutal and barbaric means than those who used brutal and barbaric means to kill innocent people.
(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)
–Dana
Protect the innocent, punish the guilty. Or so I thought.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:10 amIf she wasn’t a washed-up, has-been, B-lister, she would have a screen writer to write her lines and a director to tell her how to deliver them, and she wouldn’t sound like such a dipwiddle.
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:36 amLibs who think this a valid argument are delusional.
It’s the same as saying a murderer who has been given every last mile of due process over years is the same as an unborn child.
Great point about the comparison on how their lives are terminated too.
harkin (58d012) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:39 amWickedness and depravity. Hold it close, Milano, you’re scum.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:42 amShe published a state-by-state abortion legislation guide for the film industry so the states that support life and have legislation protecting babies (via heartbeat bill) can be avoided. Girl hates unborn babies…
I’m interested to see if the (renewed) death penalty becomes an issue for all the Dem candidates, including Joe Biden. I realize it’s not something that single-issue voters focus on, but coupled with the Dem’s aggressively extreme stand on abortion, it might end up lumped in with it.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:44 am@2. ‘washed up, has-been, B-lister…’
Yeah, you tell her, nk– maybe she should go into politics– see Ronald Reagan for details.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:15 pmAttorney General William Barr said (I think) that he picked them togo first because they had killed children. This seems to mean anyone under the age of 18. But anyway four of them were ten years of age or under. The exception is someone who killed a 16-year old girl after raping (and torturing) her. I don’t know if these are the only federal prisoners awaiting execution who killed minors.
Four of them killed more than one person. The exception is a man who killed his two year old daughter.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:17 pm‘I don’t usually care what Hollywood folk care about issues, because, why??’
Because, for starters, Hollywood’s product is one of the top exports of the United States.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:20 pmThe right to lifers have made abortion political demanding pro life judges and politicians to do their bidding. and you wonder why pro choice side wants to give you a post natal abortion when you say no fetus should be terminated ;but don’t bring up welfare for the babies that are forced to be born as you don’t believe in government welfare.
lany (fd9d15) — 7/26/2019 @ 1:19 pmI don’t usually care what Hollywood folk think about issues because, why??
Actually, I care what they think much less than I think what the average citizen thinks. They are unusually stupid and morally degenerate, so their opinion is of little consequence. That some people equate celebrity or acting talent with intelligence or wisdom just shows how stupid they are.
I recall after the fall of the Berlin Wall, that some actor (maybe it was Alec Baldwin) was on PBS talking about how Reagan was right after all about Communism. He had called Reagan a warmonger and crazy years before. My reaction: you stupid putz. The fact that you have some ability to act does not mean you understand anything about world affairs. Just shut up.
And let us not forget the moral degeneracy of the Academy Awards, who gave a lifetime award to that child molestor, Roman Polanksi. Led by none other than Meryl Streep. She is a brilliant actress, no doubt. But in my eyes, she has less moral standing than a flatworm. A dead flatworm.
And, contra Whoopi Goldberg, it was rape-rape. 43 year old man drugs a 13 year old girl and has sex with her. Any normal person understands that’s rape. But not Whoopi. So why should we give a fig what that degenerate thinks or says?
Bored Lawyer (44d9c7) — 7/26/2019 @ 2:36 pmbut don’t bring up welfare for the babies that are forced to be born as you don’t believe in government welfare.
Oh please, try harder, etc.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 2:54 pmBored Lawyer,
While we are in agreement in most part, there is a reason to care about what they think: Hollywood and the entertainment industry often lead the way in social changes and in the normalizing of whatever their next pet cause is. And the rest of the country follows their lead. There is no doubt that collectively, they compel many politicians to also follow their lead with progressive policies and legislation. See: California.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 2:56 pmI know I bore everyone to death by constantly quoting P.J. O’Rourke, but here’s what he had to say on the matter:
He later followed that up with “Hey honey, I’m pro-abortion too. As long as it’s retroactive.”
JVW (54fd0b) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:45 pmAssuming all five get lethal injections this year, that’s five people executed for cause and how many thousands of aborted unborn children in 2019?
Paul Montagu (e70a29) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:50 pmOver the years, my position has softened on the death penalty as I’m okay with multiple murderers living out the rest of their miserable lives in 8×10 concrete boxes, as long as they never get out.
14. When it comes to the Death Penalty vs. life imprisonment, we can go on ad infinitum about which is crueler. But neither is “unusual” in the constitutional sense of the word as I understand it.
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:51 pmAlyssa Milano is a few years younger than I am, and I remember seeing her in the latter years of Who’s the Boss? and noticing how good-looking she had become in her mid-to-late teen years. I kind of feel sorry for her: she made the decision to forego a college education in order to stay with a fairly popular TV show, but by the time it ended when she was 20 or so she was a bit too old to play the young girl roles, though she had developed something of a goody-goody image by then and was sort of typecast. So, in the way that Hollywood works, she changed her image by starting to take off her clothes for direct-to-cable and direct-to-video type softcore sex movies, which really didn’t do much to establish her as an A-lister.
In her late 20s or early 30s she finally got a role on that TV show about witches which proved to be fairly popular, but big-time movie stardom continued to elude her. I read too that she’s had financial trouble resulting in a bankruptcy, so the image of Alyssa Milano that I have is largely as an embittered Hollywood castoff who thought that she deserved better and thus wants to blame the patriarchy, and so she lazily latches on to trendy progressive politics of shrillness knowing that it will keep her name in the media. This way she doesn’t have to face up to the fact that she has never been more than a cute face and a sexy (though surgically augmented) body.
JVW (54fd0b) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:58 pmI encourage you to read the fine details of the crimes committed by the five individuals. Or, rather, *actual* people…
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:24 pm17. I did. Those crimes were definitely cruel and unusual and in my opinion deserving of the death penalty.
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:27 pmThose murderers were innocent fetuses once! How can you NOT see the equivalence?!1!?!
Kevin M (21ca15) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:28 pmIn all of 2018 we executed 25 people. Would you be willing to forego the very few executions we have to have a stronger philosophical position against that very common argument from the left?
Let’s face facts: the left believe that the unborn are not really living human beings because that’s what they need to believe in order to support abortion. Conservatives know that the condemned are living human beings, but ones who have committed crimes too heinous to allow them to live. In the end, both sides are arguing for killing, simply having different justifications for doing so.
Isn’t it simpler simply not to kill?
The philosophical Dana (822212) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:30 pm20. Not all killing is murder. Ask yourself, if you knew that shooting an assailant would save your spouse (for example), and you knew with absolute certainty that failure to do so would mean your spouse would die, would you have any moral qualms about killing? The death penalty is not the murder of an innocent; quite to the contrary, a case could be made that the death penalty and its (occasional?) utilization are a necessary component of true justice.
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:35 pmyes the phrase is thou shalt not murder, but death greater than those seen in soviet Russia, have been acceptable, because women’s privacy or autonomy or some such,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:38 pmIn the end, both sides are arguing for killing, simply having different justifications for doing so.
Isn’t it simpler simply not to kill?
To say that both sides are just “arguing” for “killing” with different justifications reduces the act (of killing) to an equivalency. But it isn’t. There’s a distinctly different motivation and purpose for “killing” individuals. To not make that a significant part of the argument seems disingenuous.
We protect the innocent. We let them live. We punish those found guilty. And in some of those cases, they meet a threshold of such evil that death is the punishment. How are those the same thing? “Killing” is not always the same thing, in that what leads up to it and what it’s purpose is varies.
What did the innocent baby in the womb do to justify being killed? We sure as hell know what the 5 individuals did to deserve it.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:54 pmWe sure as hell know what the 5 individuals did to deserve it.
Did they? Are any of us like God Who knows all things in truth? Are any of us prophets with special access to the workings of Divine Justice.
The simple fact is that they are human beings. To assert that they should be executed is to assert that they have lost their status as human beings. In other words, to treat them the way the Left treats unborn children.
Kishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:26 pmIn all of 2018 we executed 25 people. Would you be willing to forego the very few executions we have to have a stronger philosophical position against that very common argument from the left?
Would it help?
Kevin M (21ca15) — 7/26/2019 @ 6:23 pmHow about this:
Each year we execute as many people on death row as there are abortions in that state. Have an abortion, kill a murderer. See just how far that moral equivalency prevents abortions.
My guess? Not at all, but at least the states will save a lot of money on upkeep.
Kevin M (21ca15) — 7/26/2019 @ 6:27 pmAw fer crying out loud! This is why we can’t have nice things. All four of those monsters should have had fatal “asthma attacks” on the way to the police station, with maybe a few abortionists picked up on the way to keep them company. That’s equivalency!
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 6:46 pm*five*
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 6:47 pmDo you not believe the State should not meet our any punishment for crimes, kishnevi? Is it all forms of punishment or just the ones you don’t like that we shouldn’t exercise? Who gets to make those judgments?
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:53 pmThe simple fact is that they are human beings. To assert that they should be executed is to assert that they have lost their status as human beings. No, to assert that they should be executed is not to assert they have lost their status as human beings. It is, however, to assert that their crimes are so grievous and destructive in taking the lives of others, that they have, in essence, forfeited the right to live. And the court has decided that punishment will come in the form of execution. They still have the opportunity for redemption and to make their peace with God. If they were not human, they would not have that opportunity for forgiveness from the one who created them as individual human beings.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:59 pm24. I’d propose that it is possible to forfeit rights, up to and including the right to life. If you are in prison, you have forfeited your right to free association and travel. And I could go on. I would agree that the right to life must not be taken by the state lightly, but there is a level of depravity that demands the ultimate price for justice. We can argue and debate where that level of depravity is, but I believe that these five individuals in question exceeded it.
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:07 pmAs a matter of pro life principle, we should not have capital punishment. If God thinks they are worthy of death, God will ensure they die. But it is not the government’s role to play God.
Kishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:09 pmI also think that the death penalty is not really a deterrent, that it allows people to lump us in with China, Saudi Arabia, Iran and other [sarcasm] bastions of liberty [/sarcasm], and that enough cases of wrongful conviction have come to light to make any proponent of the death penalty pause a moment. [Hey, when Jezebel engineered the deathn9f Naboth, an actual prophet–Elijah–was in the neighborhood, but that didn’t stop the miscarriage of justice from happening.]
But the arguments in that last paragraph are pragmatic, not philosophical, arguments. It boils down to this: if you respect life, you respect all lives, even when they belong to people who have demonstrated they themselved do not respect life.
It is, however, to assert that their crimes are so grievous and destructive in taking the lives of others, that they have, in essence, forfeited the right to live
I would answer that to say they have forfeited the right to live is in fact to say they are not humans.
Kishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:12 pm32. While I find the pro-life anti-death penalty position morally defensible, I still don’t agree with it. If you disagree with the death penalty because it’s not government’s role to play God, then why mete out justice at all? What role does punishment play, if not to ensure that justice itself is satisfied in a morally sound manner?
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:14 pm33. Then I hope and pray that you never have to suffer as the next-of-kin of a victim of a crime as depraved as the ones these five stand accused of.
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:15 pmThe death penalty is unique in three ways
Kishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:18 pm1] it puts the state directly in the role of playing God
2] once carried out, it can not be undone or compensated for even if a mistake was made
3] it declares that spiritual reformation is not possible.
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:15 pm
And if I hope if I ever were, I would not fall into the sins of vindictiveness and vengeance-seeking.
Kishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:20 pm36.
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:22 pm1. As I said before, all justice is morally centered. Or should be. Is it okay to play God if we’re not taking a life?
2. This is the best reason of all those offered not to embrace the death penalty. It alone does not go all the way in convincing me.
3. Quite to the contrary, facing one’s own death is the last hope that the truly depraved have for spiritual reformation. That is not the state’s business, however. And if someone is truly remorseful, they have every opportunity while their appeals play out to contact clergy to get right with God before they go to meet him (cf. Sister Helen Prejean)
37. Easy to say when it’s not your loved one that you’re burying.
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:22 pm. Is it okay to play God if we’re not taking a life?
I would say we would not be playing God.
. Quite to the contrary, facing one’s own death is the last hope that the truly depraved have for spiritual reformation.
We face our own death every moment of our waking life. But I would argue that spending decades in prison is a far better way to get a person to think seriously about how they wasted their own lives (not to mention the lives of their victims). Fear of hell, servile fear, is not true fear of God.
Easy to say when it’s not your loved one that you’re burying.
Kishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:32 pmWhich is why I used the phrase “I hope” in that comment.
It declares that spiritual reformation is not possible.
Now who’s playing God? Are any of us like God Who knows all things in truth? I posit that God is able to reach the darkest of hearts the most wretched of souls even when taking their very last breath and bestow His forgiveness on the individual if they ask with a repentant heart. A repentance in which He Aline’s discerns the veracity. To say that spiritual reformation is no longer possible is to say that God is not possible, and therefore is not. No Divinity, no omniscience, nor omnipresent and unable to save.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:33 pmI would say the time it would take them to die of thirst and exposure on a cross, a gibbet, or in an oubliette, is time enough for them to reflect on their sins, and I would apply those forms of execution to these particular condemned. With “embellishments” beforehand. They committed horrific crimes.
It’s not really a philosophical question. It’s a practical question of what measures a society considers necessary for the continued, peaceful enjoyment of its own existence.
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:44 pm. But I would argue that spending decades in prison is a far better way to get a person to think seriously about how they wasted their own lives (not to mention the lives of their victims). Fear of hell, servile fear, is not true fear of God.Again, playing God. God, an omniscient and omnipresent Being who has written eternity and authored creation is obviously more than capable of determining how best to love a lost soul to Himself. You simply don’t know that sitting in prison is the most effective way to get anyone to consider how they wasted their lives. And frankly, if they had the time and were so inclined, they should be thinking about how they’ve wasted other people’s lives – literals – rather than their own.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:46 pmeven when taking their very last breath and bestow His forgiveness on the individual if they ask with a repentant heart
So why impose a deadline? Why not leave it to God to arrange things as God thinks best?
Kishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:48 pmThe death penalty is a declaration, among other things, that the guilty man is incapable of doing good.
Dana, don’t you understand? If God decides they should die, they will die. If God decides they should not die, they will not die. Why try to make the decision in God’s stead?
they should be thinking about how they’ve wasted other people’s lives – literals – rather than their own.
Reread the portion of my comment you quoted there…
Kishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:53 pm@10.”The fact you have some ability to act does not mean you understand anything about world affairs. Just shut up.”
ROFLMAOPIP——- Presenting: Ronald Reagan.
Gobsmackingly priceless.
“He’s a monkey.” – Peter Boyd [Ronald Reagan] ‘Bedtime for Bonzo’ 1951
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:58 pmKishnevi,
Do you have object to killing one’s enemies when at war?
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:59 pmkishnevi,
Haven’t you left out capital punishment as deterrence, protecting society from highly dangerous people who will kill again? I know we talk about life in prison but that doesn’t always happen. Even people on death row have been released, only to kill again.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 9:13 pm58 million lives snuffed over two generations how many are possible casualties 150-200 million
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 9:44 pmOh this is such a great post and the comments here are so excellent. Dana deserves a lot of credit for raising this very difficult issue.
For the record, and I am not going to engage in any debate around this because the hour is late and I want to call it a night, I am against abortion and against the death penalty. But I am very aware of all the very good arguments against my positions
JVW (54fd0b) — 7/26/2019 @ 10:09 pmKishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:18 pm
Paul Montagu (e70a29) — 7/26/2019 @ 10:21 pmThat’s why my pro-death penalty views have softened. The more I’ve studied the Scriptures, the more I’ve come around to the power of redemption. Not that I want to free the son-of-a-bitch who murdered children, but at least that murderer can potentially reform in prison and have a testimony. If he doesn’t go down that path, then miserable life it is.
As I read scripture, the power of redemption is not limited by anything man can do. Even his rejection of redemptive grace doesn’t change the fact that the opportunity for the redemption is there for the taking. That includes whether living a life in prison or whether condemn to die. God is not limited by either situation and remain sovereign.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:20 pmI’ll just say, Dana, that my views have softened, not switched. There are some cases that are so irredeemably evil that I may just do the injection myself, and maybe that’s a question for anyone favoring the death penalty: Would you willingly pull the switch or inject the serum that would end another human being’s life? And then, if you say “yes”, is that an earthly or godly decision? Hence my softening, and that doesn’t even get to the power of redemption question.
Paul Montagu (dbd3cc) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:51 pmI have a good friend in my Friday mens’ group, and he’s one of the smarter guys I know and the kind of practicing Catholic who sings in the Sunday mass choir and goes to confession every few weeks. There is some sense to Catholic doctrine on the subject, even to this Baptist.
42 – nk
mg (8cbc69) — 7/27/2019 @ 12:40 amNever thought about those options, but count me in.
Paul Montagu,
I guess I see redemption (and God Himself) as unlimited by anything or anyone. I can’t speak for anyone else but my guess is that most people don’t take this issue lightly. Certainly I don’t. I’ve given it tremendous thought and contemplation because, at the end of the day, someone’s life is being ended. That should weigh heavily on everyone, no matter their stand. With that, however, my main disagreement with kishnevi is, killing a baby who has done absolutely nothing wrong and has had no choice in anything, is not equivalent to executing an adult who has chosen to commit incredibly severe crimes against another human being, including ending their lives. They are not the same thing.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/27/2019 @ 7:25 amI posted not one but two comments yesterday, which should have appeared in the mid twenties range, which did not appear. Noting the blurb “Comment moderation is enabled. Your comment may take some time to appear,” I decided to be patient, but now I’m wondering: have I been banned? This is a test comment.
The inquisitive Dana (822212) — 7/27/2019 @ 7:57 amOK, I guess that I haven’t been banned.
The much better looking Dana wrote:
Which is confirmation of my point, that both sides are arguing for killing someone, but are simply proceeding from different motivations. That you are arguing that these criminals are guilty is your motivation; surely you can see that the arguments of the pro-abortionists are proceeding from their motivations.
If we have a criminal in captivity, and confined so strictly that we can execute him against his will, he is, by definition helpless. If he is helpless, there is no need to execute him; execution becomes an option, not a necessity.
The philosophical Dana (822212) — 7/27/2019 @ 8:03 amYeah, I didn’t find any of your comments stuck in moderation or the spam folder.
They have been found to be guilty by a court of law, and have exhausted their appeals. Unless they are in some sort of tightly controlled super-max prison, there will always remain the possibility of them killing again while imprisoned.
Dana (bb0678) — 7/27/2019 @ 8:24 am