Patterico's Pontifications

USA USA USA!!!!

Awesome that we won!!!

Time123 (441f53) — 7/9/2019 @ 7:31 am

The wage gap nitwits have picked up on their demand for equal pay w men, although apples and bowling balls.

Maybe someone can explain revenue and percentages to them.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-9sCcZWsAAT_qx?format=jpg&name=900×900

harkin (58d012) — 7/9/2019 @ 8:09 am

R.I.P. ROSS PEROT

Six feet under the hood.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/9/2019 @ 8:23 am

1. Awesome that we won, but Rapinoe makes it difficult for me to get excited about this.

Gryph (08c844) — 7/9/2019 @ 8:28 am

That team is outstanding, fun to watch, even though soccer is a BIG MEH for me. I do agree about that angry dyke… what the hell does she have in her life to be angry about? The antics with the flag that she and the other gal perpetrated were sad.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/9/2019 @ 8:37 am

Saw Pele play 40 some years ago, never ever watched another match.

mg (8cbc69) — 7/9/2019 @ 8:39 am

Hat-tricks; when some balls can’t be kicked, use the head, eh, Captain, sir?!

DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/9/2019 @ 8:40 am

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/07/were-not-womens-soccer-were-not-the-nfl-hockey-coach-tells-player-if-they-disrespect-the-anthem-get-the-fck-out/
Fricken A.

mg (8cbc69) — 7/9/2019 @ 8:42 am

Rapinoe is an embarrassment. The trump hatred, refusing to sing the anthem, the hair coloring, the exhibitionist behavior after scoring a goal, etc.

People need to understand that the USA women’s team wins, because almost nobody in the rest of the world cares about female Futbol. The Men’s W. Cup makes $6 billion – the Women’s World Cup makes $150 million. Its why the main competition for the USA women are China (Chicom nationalism), Sweden, Norway, England, and Holland. A good Boys H/S team could beat them.

rcocean (1a839e) — 7/9/2019 @ 9:08 am

RC, We won a world cup. You should be happy about that. Why do you hate America?

Time123 (dba73f) — 7/9/2019 @ 9:17 am

Joking aside, In the US soccer isn’t a super lucrative sport and the young women on this team, dedicated a lot of their lives and energy to win the world cup. Women’s sports in general don’t get a lot of fame and it makes me happy to see our national team getting their moment in the sun after winning the championship. It’s not like any of them are likely to be able to retire on their earnings after this. A few might get a nice windfall, but a bit of glory is about the most a lot of them will get.

While 1 or 2 players may have been obnoxious, soccer is a team sport that involves not just the players on the field, but the staff and the feeder programs that help develop high level talent. Pissing on the accomplishment of all off them because of antics of one or two players is disrespectful to the rest of the team. Most of whom will almost certainly be vastly more interested in their sport than any part of the culture war.
I think this is a great opportunity to rise above the things that we all disagree on and focus on the fact that some American’s did something cool.

Time123 (89dfb2) — 7/9/2019 @ 9:33 am

Are you talking about one of the two most dominant US international teams, the other being US women’s softball. In the last 20 years, 4 world cup championships, 4 Olympic golds. The men’s team, zip.

People need to understand that the USA women’s team wins, because almost nobody in the rest of the world cares about female Futbol.

Wrong, women’s soccer is the most popular womens sport on the planet

The Men’s W. Cup makes $6 billion – the Women’s World Cup makes $150 million.

From 2016 to 2018, U.S. women’s soccer raised $50.8 million in revenue, compared with $49.9 million for the country’s men’s side, according to the U.S. Soccer Federation’s audited financial statements. In 2016, the women’s team generated $1.9 million more than the men’s.

Its why the main competition for the USA women are China (Chicom nationalism), Sweden, Norway, England, and Holland.

Yeah, that would be the world part of World Cup, just like the men.

A good Boys H/S team could beat them.

You are a moron, that’s not an insult, it’s just you’re thing.

Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 7/9/2019 @ 9:46 am

Col. klink, interesting fact Check. Ty

Time123 (d8955f) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:08 am

A young HS team did beat them.

“The USA women’s football team were convincingly beaten by a team of adolescents in a embarrassing defeat for the world champions.

They were roundly outplayed, losing 5-2 against FC Dallas Under-15s academy side who took full advantage of their big day.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4389760/USA-women-s-team-suffer-5-2-loss-FC-Dallas-U-15-boys.html

__

“From 2016 to 2018, U.S. women’s soccer raised $50.8 million in revenue, compared with $49.9 million for the country’s men’s side”

IOW the team that won the Cup out-raised a team that failed to qualify.
__

If you want to see lit, wait till the women w penises start forcing their way in.

harkin (58d012) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:20 am

Looks like the revenue question isn’t as clear cut as was described in comment number 2. The $ figures at the link appear to be comparing the revenue of the men’s league globally with the revenue of the women’s US team. Apparently in the US women’s Soccer makes more money than men’s. Col Klink said the same thing but I’ve included a link.

Time123 (dba73f) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:25 am

Harkin,

“From 2016 to 2018, U.S. women’s soccer raised $50.8 million in revenue, compared with $49.9 million for the country’s men’s side”

IOW the team that won the Cup out-raised a team that failed to qualify.

Do you want to modify your comment in #2 based on the information you present in comment 14?

Seems like you were really off base there.

Time123 (dba73f) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:32 am

A young HS team did beat them.

To quote Allen Iverson, We talkin’ bout practice. https://youtu.be/eGDBR2L5kzI?t=51

It’s imperative to state that this ‘game’ between the USWNT and Dallas boys was not really a game at all, it was an informal practice.

And, with an actual game against Russia to follow, none of the female players would in their right mind have played like it was a real contest. Similarly, the opportunity to go up against someone like Lloyd, who has shared the stage with Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi at the last two annual FIFA galas, probably made the boys play that much harder.

With many of the Dallas boys unlikely to make it all the way to professional level, when would the chance to share a pitch, even a training pitch, with a genuine global superstar come around again? The answer for nearly all of them is undoubtedly ‘never’.

The fact that the women lost the ‘game’ means literally nothing.

The only thing that needs reporting here is that some young hopeful footballers were able to meet and ‘jam’ with some very famous other footballers. If you find the alleged score-line funny, try learning the facts, step into the 21st century and just plain grow up.

Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:34 am

Can’t wait for people to start investing in Women’s Pro soccer leagues to show how embarrassingly wrong so many are over revenue streams of men vs women. How can they look at the example of the WNBA and be so blind?

harkin (58d012) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:34 am

Harkin @18, That’s not really relevant to your previous comments. Maybe you’re confused? do you need me to explain how percentages work and why it’s important to make sure the units match?

Time123 (dba73f) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:38 am

17 – even the reporter said they were embarrassed. Go squeal at him.

harkin (58d012) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:43 am

Col Klink @17,

Those are all valid points. But the fact remains that the women’s team was at least close to the boys HS team. Maybe they did goof off to the point where they were letting the kids win. But I haven’t seen any evidence of that.

I don’t think this is really a demerit against the women’s team. Size and strength are factors in soccer.

It’s like weight classes in combat sports. Skill is important, but size and strength also matter. Unless you’ve got a problem with women’s sports in general I don’t think this really matters much. If you do have a problem with women’s sports, well, I feel sorry for you. Gotta be hard to go thought life full of dumb hate.

Time123 (dba73f) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:45 am

The reporter did use the word embarrassed, but showed nothing in the article to support that. Quite the opposite. Maybe that part was fake news?

Time123 (dba73f) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:47 am

I have never really enjoyed watching men’s soccer.

“Brownian motion with nets,” as a similarly ill-disposed physicist buddy of mine jokingly describes the game.

Whether its because the players are more interesting to look at, or because they don’t have the superhero physical powers that allow men to cover the same area of field much more effectively, and thus can’t lock the game into an even bigger snoozefest as soon as they get a one-goal lead, I find women’s soccer more enjoyable to watch.

I was there at the Rose Bowl when Brandi Chastain won it in 1999, and again in 2003 when we fell short against Germany.

I think women’s tennis also a lot better game than men’s, again because men are too fast and powerful for the size of the court.

Dave (1bb933) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:47 am

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/08/why_do_womens_sports_even_exist.html

BuDuh (73f798) — 7/9/2019 @ 10:58 am

I’m not a general fan; run around for an unspecified amount of time, every once in a while kick a ball at a box. Better than watching baseball on TV, I guess, you actually have to pay attention. Better than golf too. I’ve been to a number of FC Cincinnati games and they’re fun, more for the crowd and culture though, I’d rather go to a Red’s game, but I’d rather go to FC-C than a Bengal’s game though.

The USMNT is currently 30th ranked, so might not even make Qatar.

The USWNT deserve’s pay parity with the men’s team, but realistically that might mean that the men get a pay cut, since they kind of suck and don’t make much money in the US, especially on off years, but World Cup pay is based on World Cup revenue, so until global TV networks pay billions (somewhere north of $5B just for sponsorship in the ’14 WC) to air the Women’s instead of hundreds of millions, they’re not getting the 8X pay bump.

Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:07 am

Soccer is just organized running all for a nil – nil tie.

mg (8cbc69) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:25 am

“The USWNT deserve’s pay parity with the men’s team”
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:07 am

I really want to understand the logic here. They deserve parity because….”

Can you complete the sentence?

Does the women’s ice hockey team deserve pay parity with the men? Is this based strictly on ranking and performance? Because that’s just not how the world works.

Munroe (e31641) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:31 am

Whats the difference between the England team and a tea-bag?
tea-bag stays in the cup longer.

mg (8cbc69) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:32 am

21… just wait for the trannies that will soon be rocking the world of women’s soccer!

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:33 am

14… harkin, you sod, you beat me to the dickpunch.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:37 am

17… harkin, I suggest you change your moniker to Hogan, as you keep Klink in a perpetually frustrated, wee-wee’d up state.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:41 am

14, some would consider that boy from FC Dallas U-15 a proto Nick Sandmann.

urbanleftbehind (db486c) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:41 am

The key fact is this:

Women’s soccer is much less popular around the world than men’s soccer, but in the United States, where soccer itself is much less popular than it is around the world, women’s soccer is much more equal in popularity to men’s soccer than it is around the world, and the United States is a country with a big population (you could call it great) so the U.S. men’s soccer team is worse than mediocre, while the U.S. women’s soccer team is the world’s champion.

Sammy Finkelman (83cfe1) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:03 pm

Do tarannies wear protective cups? As catchers do?

mg (8cbc69) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:07 pm

“The USWNT deserve’s pay parity with the men’s team”
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:07 am

I really want to understand the logic here. They deserve parity because…they generate as much, if not more revenue than the men’s team.”

Can you complete the sentence?

Does the women’s ice hockey team deserve pay parity with the men? Is this based strictly on ranking and performance? Because that’s just not how the world works.

Munroe (e31641) — 7/9/2019 @ 11:31 am

the bolded info is laid out in previous comments.

Time123 (89dfb2) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:09 pm

From 2016 to 2018, U.S. women’s soccer raised $50.8 million in revenue, compared with $49.9 million for the country’s men’s side,

Raised from what? All sources? Does that include the USA’s cut – if any – from World Cup revenues? Is it an apple to apple comparison? “Revenue” can be many things.

Also, you’d have to subtract from the women’s revenue that they are PAID a salary by the Federation to play, the Men are not. The men are drawing their Pro salaries and aren’t paid. And if you don’t’ understand what a salary is, look it up.

Of course, trying to discuss finances with a Leftist is like talking calculus to my dog.

rcocean (1a839e) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:12 pm

Kapercrap and these flag dropping nitwit chicks have changed everything. Making it all about our flag!! I hope it destroys nike. Anti American pos.

mg (8cbc69) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:21 pm

RC, if you’d click the link I provided in 15 you’d see that they’re comparing gate revenue. It’s not indisputable proof, but it’s strong evidence in support of their claim. if you have other information you’re welcome to provide it.

BTW, your claim that the men aren’t paid is wrong. Also from the article “The suit also states that from 2013 to 2016 women players earned $15,000 for making the national team while the men earned $55,000 in 2014 and $68,750 in 2018.”

Maybe if you spent less time talking to your dog and more time paying attention you wouldn’t make these simple mistakes.

Time123 (89dfb2) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:24 pm

MG, they’re great US champions. Why do you hate America?

Time123 (89dfb2) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:25 pm

“they generate as much, if not more revenue than the men’s team.”
Time123 (89dfb2) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:09 pm

I’m not going to dive into the validity of those revenue numbers. People aren’t paid based on the revenue they generate.

They’re paid on the potential revenue they can generate and the likelihood of obtaining that potential. The men have a reasonable chance to qualify for the most popular tournament (by far) in the world. They’ve qualified before. The women have no such potential.

If the revenue numbers are accurate they are barely exceeding the men after having maxed their potential and the men having failed to qualify last time. That should indicate something obvious.

Munroe (03afec) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:31 pm

USWNT 4WC’s/4OGM’s/more revenue vs. USMNT 0WC’s/0GM’s/less revenue. So their performance is better and generate more revenue, but are paid less. Do they deserve more money for exorcising and playing a game? Maybe, depends on personal values, but objectively the men should be getting less. Someone somewhere said “I like winners, people who win”

Again, this is for US National Team pay, not WC bonuses. World Cup pay is going to be based on World Cup revenue and there is little chance that the sheikhs are all in for lady equality, and they’ve been the ones footing (pun intended) the bill.

Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:53 pm

If the revenue numbers are accurate they are barely exceeding the men after having maxed their potential and the men having failed to qualify last time. That should indicate something obvious.

Yeah, that our men’s team is crap.

Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:56 pm

@Munroe

There are many areas where people are paid based on the revenue the generate. Commission based sales is an easy example. Consulting is another. Prize fighter compensation is a third.

However you’re correct that it’s not the only basis for compensation. Your hypothetical on how the pay is determined may be accurate. Maybe it’s something that the defendants in the law suit will claim. Maybe it’s 100% wrong. That would depend on what the actual upside is for the men’s team and I don’t have any good information on that. I doubt you do either. I doubt either of us have information on the impact of merchandising or endorsements or any other revenue streams.

But you didn’t say “Provide irrefutable proof that accounts for every possibility.” You asked what the logic was. I provided it, with a link. If it’s correct or not will depend on a lot of information that’s not available to either of us, but it’s clear that their complaint has some basis in fact. I’m content to let lawyers work on this for both sides and accept that they’ll come to something fair, or at least something that follows an evenly applied process. But it doesn’t seem obvious to me that there is no legitimate case.

Time123 (dba73f) — 7/9/2019 @ 12:56 pm

Yeah, that our men’s team is crap.

Maybe they can justify the mens team’s higher salaries as “affirmative action” then…

🙂

Dave (1bb933) — 7/9/2019 @ 1:03 pm

tic tic – great is very subjective. How can I hate America when we have the 2nd amendment?

mg (8cbc69) — 7/9/2019 @ 1:32 pm

The men’s team may get paid more because somebody is trying to attract better players.

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 7/9/2019 @ 1:33 pm

RC, if you’d click the link I provided in 15 you’d see that they’re comparing gate revenue. It’s not indisputable proof, but it’s strong evidence in support of their claim. if you have other information you’re welcome to provide it.

I’m giving up on this topic, since I’ve surfed the net and find it impossible to determine SPECIFICALLY what the expenses are of the Men and Women Soccer teams and what are the specific Revenue sources. I see average numbers per player and total numbers per team. But i see no breakdown of where the revenue is coming from.
1) You have a salary paid to player – win or lose.
2) You have prize money from competing in the world cup.
3) And then you extra money coming your way because you win and reach the final group – and then how high you finish.
4) Finally, you have the team/player expenses for playing on the national team, which needs to be credited against the revenues – unless the players/their team pick it up.

The world cup prize money for men far exceeds the women. Because the men’s world cup draws 40 times the revenue. But how does that flow down to the teams? I don’t know. How much extra does a team get if they win the whole thing, as opposed to simply qualifying for the final 32 or just participating. I don’t know. Who gets the gate receipts when the teams plays outside of the world cup before and after the finals? I don’t know. All these numbers would differ for the men’s and the womens. Why? I don’t know.

So, too many unknowns and giving general numbers and averages tells me little. As the old saw goes: Figures never lie, but liars figure.

rcocean (1a839e) — 7/9/2019 @ 1:43 pm

RC @47. Those are all great questions. I’d add 3 more

5. What is likely future revenue?
6. What is the expectation of the league regarding this potential future revenue and thus the net present value?
7. What was the internally stated reason for how the comp plan was developed and what’s customary in this situation?

You and I aren’t going to figure out what they “should” be paid without the details behind all of that and more accounting skill than I have. (Not sure about you)

What reasonably smart & educated people can do is look at the available evidence and decide if there’s a basis for the claim. I think based on the similarities in gate revenue that there is a basis for a claim. Might turn out to be wrong, but i don’t see that it’s frivolous. YMMV

Time123 (dba73f) — 7/9/2019 @ 1:54 pm

When they lose those matches, they commonly refer to them as “informal practices”. They are informal in the sense that usually they involve unlimited substitutions.

Team USA often plays U15, U16, U17 mens/boys teams as the competition is better for them than playing other womens teams. The USMNT U17’s beat them regularly. As you can see from the photo, the male athletes tend to be bigger, stronger, faster, jump higher etc.
A friend of mine is a womens soccer coach at the collegiate level. He’s the one that first told me that the women were playing the U17’s and losing.
Make sense because of the athletic differences between men and women.

They are playing women though and they outclassed them all.
Rapinoe is a good player. She has a very deft first touch on the move and is comfortable with either foot. Tobin Heath can dribble any woman, Julie Ertz plays like a Viking.
I don’t like Rapinoe for her injecting politics into sport, but she is a good player

The USA womens basketball team scrimmages men to prep for competitions. The brother of Ann and Dave Meyer – UCLA stars, Olympic star, their brother recruits men for the team to play against the women.
He has rules. No dunking. Only block shots by jumping straight up (no swatting breakaways or layups) No players over 6-5. Most were fairly good high school players. No D1, D2 players

steveg (354706) — 7/9/2019 @ 3:03 pm

The USMNT is currently 30th ranked, so might not even make Qatar.

Nah, they’re expanding the number of teams to 48, probably to ensure that there is never again a situation where Italy and the United States miss out on the tournament.

I have a post ready to go about the compensation issue. I’ll put it up in a couple of hours.

JVW (54fd0b) — 7/9/2019 @ 3:12 pm

Cool, looking forward to reading it.

Time123 (d54166) — 7/9/2019 @ 3:19 pm

“The brother of Ann and Dave Meyer – UCLA stars, Olympic star, their brother recruits men for the team to play against the women.”

I played basketball – or tried to – with Dave Meyers in high school. He was a couple of cuts above the rest of us in our league.

Colonel Haiku (0e0056) — 7/9/2019 @ 3:24 pm

I don’t like Rapinoe for her injecting politics into sport, but she is a good player

This is now a tangential comment, but I think Trump was right to criticize her. She was there specifically as representing the US in an international tournament. This was a different situation than an NFL player or college athlete playing on a team in the usual league or conference against another American based team.

[In this context, Toronto and other Canadian teams qualify as American based.]

Kishnevi (2f2613) — 7/9/2019 @ 3:45 pm

By attacking her, Trump just gave her message a higher profile.

For somebody with a fringe message and a limited audience, what more could you wish than for the most powerful man in the world to draw the whole world’s attention to you, by suggesting what you’re doing is important enough for him to care and say something about it?

That he does this, time and again, just proves what an imbecile he is.

Dave (1bb933) — 7/9/2019 @ 4:21 pm

It’s tempting to agree that Trump is an imbecile, but when I remember how good he is at staying in the warm glow of the spotlight, and at ginning up spectacle for his adoring fans and for the news media, I have to admit he is as clever as they come.

JRH (4210ba) — 7/9/2019 @ 5:07 pm

JRH (4210ba) — 7/9/2019 @ 5:07 pm

Putin definitely picked the right man for the job he wanted done.

Dave (55e817) — 7/9/2019 @ 5:17 pm

7/9/2019

US Women’s Soccer Team

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