Senator Ted Kennedy Dead at 77
[Guest post by DRJ]
Several news sources report Senator Ted Kennedy has died of brain cancer. My condolences to his family.
Please note that comments will be moderated.
H/T JVW.
— DRJ
UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Growing up, my dad hated three people more than any other: Ted Kennedy, Jane Fonda, and Andy Granatelli. (Don’t ask.) I was not a fan either. I doubt readers of my site are much different, and I don’t expect commenters here to say anything nice about the guy. Yes, he caused a woman’s death. Yes, he should have been prosecuted.
Just follow the adage your mom told you: if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.
Moderators are free to delete comments as necessary.
I wonder what’s going to happen to his seat. Will it go to another person in his family? I know that’s what he wanted. It’s a very strange thing to see dynasties in American government.
I hope he went in comfort, and that he’s at peace spiritually. I don’t really have anything to say about him that’s respectable, but I hope he went in comfort.
Juan (bd4b30) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:38 pmIt’s been confirmed by Kennedy’s office. I hope his final moments were peaceful and free of suffering.
JVW (d1215a) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:39 pmThis is not a time to speak ill of the man. He had a wife, he had kids, he had friends, all of whom loved him and cared about him.
I hope that in the end, it was peaceful.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:39 pmFox News is running a news story that is pretty hard-hitting about his shortcomings, but generally respectful.
JVW (d1215a) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:40 pmUnless they change the law in MA, the only way a member of his family will end up serving in his seat is by special election.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:43 pmPrayers for his family.
daleyrocks (718861) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:44 pmHe had shortcomings and we shouldn’t pretend they didn’t exist, but there is a time and place for everything. This will not turn into a thread along the lines of what we saw after Tony Snow’s death. It’s off to a good start. Let’s keep that up, please.
Patterico (cc3b34) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:44 pmMy prayers and symapthy to his family. I will say nothing further.
JD (7de4c1) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:45 pmR.I.P.
Ray (3c46ca) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:46 pmKennedy and Gov. Patrick had pushed to amend the Massachusetts constitution to allow for an appointment in case of a Senate vacancy, but my understanding is that under current Mass law the seat has to remain open until the next election cycle in 2010.
JVW (d1215a) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:46 pmI have no Earthly idea who the hell that is.
After running the name through Google, I have to ask…
Your dad not a fan of people who sign paychecks for Mario?
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:48 pm
happyfeet (6b707a) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:50 pmScott,
Long story. I’ll tell it some other time.
Patterico (cc3b34) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:53 pmOW!!!!!!!!
(word to the wise: biting your tongue *hurts*!)
my condolences to the people who loved him.
redc1c4 (fb8750) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:53 pmMy mother is a fine woman, but she told me that she could not wish the late Senator Kennedy well. I didn’t understand that, for this reason only: even if you disagree with everything that the man did and stood for, there was always hope—while he lived—that he might change or do right.
Once dead, that possibility is no longer an option.
More importantly, as others have noted, he left behind family who are in pain. For their sakes—people who had nothing to do with the late Senator’s actions—we should show decorum and sympathy.
Politics has poisoned many of us in our culture. At times like this, seeing what people have written here, I am proud to be a Republican and lukewarm Conservative.
Eric Blair (a88004) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:55 pmI met Mr. Kennedy once as I was walking down the Senate hallways. He came at a trot out of a room, bent halfway forward with a friendly look on his face as he walked right next to me saying hello as he went by. This was right after his debacle in Florida when his nephew was charged with rape and Mr. Kennedy had such awful publicity. Guys like him are rare when such ridiculously high expectations are countered with such ordinary, and human, weaknesses.
richardb (592499) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:56 pmStopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening
Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village, though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.
My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.
He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there’s some mistake.
The only other sound’s the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
— Robert Frost
Rest in Peace Ted Kennedy.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:57 pmWhile maintaining my general sense of propriety in deference to our host, I wonder if the Dems will pull another Wellstone funeral moment on us and demand that health care pass to honor the memory of the late Senior Senator from Massachusetts. If so, will it be met with the same sense of revulsion that followed the Wellstone funeral?
JVW (d1215a) — 8/25/2009 @ 10:59 pm[…] Kennedy Dead at age 77 Sen. Edward Moore Kennedy, aka Ted Kennedy the youngest Kennedy brother who was left to head the family’s political dynas… after his brothers President John F. Kennedy and Sen. Robert F. Kennedy were assassinated, has died […]
Ted Kennedy Dead at age 77 | Fire Andrea Mitchell! (20d20a) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:00 pmBeing a Christian first, a Conservative second and a Republican third, I have to say Ted did as much damage to my kind as he possibly could. But, as a Christian, I cannot help but feel a great sense of sorrow for Ted. The man’s life bore witness to the man’s character and I would never wish for anyone to go through what I believe Ted is going through right now.
Since I believe in the afterlife as fervently as I believe “I exist,” Ted’s death does indeed pain me greatly.
John Hitchcock (3fd153) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:08 pmJVW, that’s a sad thought. And given the trends lately, I think it’s a high likelihood that both your predictions are accurate.
The dems seem to be relying on emotion and personality a lot lately, and are desperate. But more importantly, they are highly fractured. Some segment of the party will use Ted Kennedy’s prolific social legislation career as an argument for remembering him with this healthcare bill. I think it’s worth looking at the body of his work and seeing what lessons we can learn about whether this kind of intervention is a good idea.
Did Ted Kennedy ever comment about the Wellstone memorial?
Juan (bd4b30) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:10 pmI’ve wondered for a long time — based on the fact that JFK was more or less a moderate Democrat who ran to Nixon’s right on defense in 1960 and Bobby was a former aide to Joe McCarthy — if his brother had not be assassinated in 1963 would Teddy have turned out as liberal as he did? Bobby strategically moved to the left in the mid-60s to take advantage of the growing hostility towards Vietnam that LBJ was being hit with, and Teddy pretty much followed his lead, taking over a mantle as the party’s leader of the liberal movement after Bobby’s assassination and Humphrey’s defeat in ’68.
The Kennedy apologists over the years have said that JFK never would have gotten into Vietnam and would have done all the Great Society issues Johnson passed had he lived, but after the Cuban Missile Crisis, it’s hard to see how as president he would have been able to move left when he was already being questioned about his ability to stand up to the Soviets. And of course, on the economy, JFK pushed those tax cuts in 1962 to stimulate the economy — not really a “Great Society” conception.
A John F. Kennedy living into 1964 and beyond likely would have ended up as the target of the Port Huron-SDS types that went after Johnson for his attempts to combat Soviet influence, and if that had happened, it would have been hard to see Bobby or Teddy breaking politically with their brother to side with the people who eventually became the Kennedys’ strongest allies.
Ted Kennedy was passionate about pushing his issues, but it was the events of the 1960s that pushed him towards those issues, more than some sort of long-standing family concern for the programs he championed. Had his brothers lived, there would have been a good chance Teddy would have been more of a Blue Dog Democrat like his older brother than the champion of liberal causes he became (on the other hand, had his brother lived and he hadn’t moved to the left given the hostilities of the 60s involving Vietnam, Teddy likely would never had had the media protection he received if Chappaquiddick had still happened).
John (da0d60) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:20 pmConsidering the tragedies that struck his brothers and newphew while they still were in the prime of their lives, Ted Kennedy at least lived a relatively long life.
If so, will it be met with the same sense of revulsion that followed the Wellstone funeral?
That was one of those defining moments over the past several years, together with surveys that indicate a larger percentage of people on the left actually are less generous than the right when it comes to donating their time and money (and even blood), that really turned me off of “progressives” once and for all.
Mark (411533) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:21 pmWhat happyfeet said …
JD (5efdfd) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:22 pmHad his brothers lived, there would have been a good chance Teddy would have been more of a Blue Dog Democrat like his older brother
I kind of doubt that, in that I suspect his mind was hard-wired to lean left. That’s even likelier the case because his ideology didn’t appear to mature and evolve as he grew older.
I’d only think differently if he had passed away at a much younger age, and therefore not been able to go through and either accept or refute the well-known phrase of “if you’re not a liberal when you’re 20, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative when you’re 40, you have no brain.”
Mark (411533) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:30 pmFollowing a mothers advice I can’t find one nice thing to say about any Kennedy.
Scrapiron (996c34) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:31 pmI suspected the end was near when he did not attend his sister’s funeral.
Tonight is not the time to deconstruct Senator Kennedy’s life. There will be other times and occassions where such a discussion is more fitting.
At this point, I merely offer my condolences to his wife Vicki, and his children Kara, Ted Jr., and Patrick.
Rest in peace, Senator.
Dave N (276c13) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:34 pmDo we have a Republican ready to run for the seat? Will there be a primary or what?
j curtis (baef6f) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:37 pmI have sympathy for his family, especially for Maria Shriver who lost her mother and her beloved uncle in such a short span of time.
But I’m going to be annoyed if I see much more of this:
MayBee (3d1a9c) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:40 pm(twitter)
{@marcambinder}Kennedy called his 2003 Iraq war vote “the best” of his his entire Senate career. (He voted “no”…)
My condolences to his family.
Californio (ea00ee) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:40 pmReally?
MayBee (3d1a9c) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:43 pm” ” per your wishes, Pat.
Ed from SFV (c4544e) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:50 pmMayBee – Ambinder is a twatwaffle.
JD (5efdfd) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:55 pmWould it be untoward to quote Clarence Darrow?
BC (b8e4eb) — 8/25/2009 @ 11:55 pmThe late Senator Kennedy was one of the few members of the current Congress of either party who served in the U.S. Armed Services. He was an MP assigned to Berlin during the height of the cold war.
My condolences to his family and those who loved him.
Stu707 (0981d5) — 8/26/2009 @ 12:02 amNo doubt an interim appoint will be placed until his son can run in the next election…much like he became a senator.
cm (589e74) — 8/26/2009 @ 12:12 amAbout this not being the time to deconstruct Ted Kennedy’s life, if not when?
Be honest, are we (“we” as in the loyal order of serial Patterican commenters) ever going to mention Ted Kennedy again?
Sure there will be the obligatory funeral post.
More then likely we will have opportunity for reflections on the crass undignified behavior of Democrats during the run up to the event.
There will be a post or two on K Olbermann and company’s tingling legs as Barry Soweto makes a perfunctory statement.
The Times will gush over how it was the most profound oratory ever, while the public does a collective eye roll.
Eventually even the Kossacks will be sickened by the media overkill.
Wow.
On second thought we’re going to have plenty of chances to deconstruct Teddy.
RIP Special K.
Kennedy and Gov. Patrick had pushed to amend the Massachusetts constitution to allow for an appointment in case of a Senate vacancy, but my understanding is that under current Mass law the seat has to remain open until the next election cycle in 2010.
Comment by JVW — 8/25/2009 @ 10:46 pm
Here’s the one thing nice I can say about him. His croaking early saved the Massachussettes legislature from one last immoral changing of the rules when they became inconvenient to the Democratic parties socialist ambitions.
papertiger (d55d4c) — 8/26/2009 @ 12:18 amNot according to MA state law. There has to be a special election, since I heard nothing of the 2004 law being repealed.
So likely in the next 90 days.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 8/26/2009 @ 12:37 amInterestingly John Stossel wrote a blog post a few days ago about Kennedy requesting a change to the state law that mandates a special election in case the senate seat is vacated. He was apparently afraid of his party losing the fillibuster proof majority.
I suppose he was closer to death than we imagined.
lee (86706b) — 8/26/2009 @ 12:40 amI’ve unfollowed a few people on twitter so far.
Give it at least a couple of days.
We will not be ghouls or attack dogs. He did as he thought best, and I won’t condemn him for that. I didn’t agree with him, and he did much I very much did not like, but I’ll not condemn him – not today.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 8/26/2009 @ 12:40 amMy condolences to his family at this sad time.
steve miller (c5e78c) — 8/26/2009 @ 12:53 ampeace be on you Ted, the same for Mary Jo.
Topsecretk9 (ab69ad) — 8/26/2009 @ 1:00 amWhy we should – and will – treat Kennedy better.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 8/26/2009 @ 1:04 amRIP, Mary Jo Kopechne (July 26, 1940 – July 18, 1969).
Music Lady (2e49c1) — 8/26/2009 @ 1:44 amWhat can anyone say at a time like this? Those of us and our loved ones who live under the shadow of this monster know how fragile and precious life can be. But when the beast takes one of our beloved ones that fact is brought home with painful force My heart aches for you and the rest of Tedy’s family, and his dogs, horses…, and my prayers are with you all — especially for that
bright new star in the sky tonight.
I have never met any of you, but I cry along with you as I write this. My love and wishes for those Mr. Edward Kennedy left behind.
God Bless. Yes, if he caused a woman’s death, I forgive him. Maybe this made him to be better …
Zdenka
Zdenka (e2da24) — 8/26/2009 @ 1:47 amLiving now in Czech republic
So I was wrong in my earlier comment. According to Massachusetts law a special election must take place no earlier than 145 days from the vacancy (presumably today) and no later than 160 days. If today, August 26, is the 238th day of the year then the election will be sometime between the 18th and 33rd days of the next year, i.e. January 18 through February 2.
As mentioned earlier, Kennedy’s reason for wanting to change this law is likely two-pronged. It would avoid the four to five month period of not having a 60th Democrat in the Senate, and it would grease the skids for the appointment of a Kennedy family member to that seat. Does anyone doubt that Massachusetts Democrats will have the chutzpa to try to change the law post haste?
JVW (d1215a) — 8/26/2009 @ 1:51 am[…] As usual Patterico has an interesting take. I know he said don’t ask, but why Andy Granatelli? Share/Save […]
A Solitary Conspiracy » Ted Kennedy: A Personal Remembrance (6ffebc) — 8/26/2009 @ 2:01 amFor those who are religious it is a good time to remember that salvation is for everyone, even the ones mere mortals don’t feel deserve it.
voiceofreason2 (cfab95) — 8/26/2009 @ 2:42 am“Just follow the adage your mom told you: if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.”
It is for that reason I have absolutely nothing whatsoever in any way at all to say regarding the death.
the friendly grizzly (b10310) — 8/26/2009 @ 3:40 amI met some people at a party who had attended Harvard and Radcliffe with the Senator.
They had some great stories… the best were from a woman who claimed to have written a few of his papers. They found him a fun, lovable, drunken doofus of a college classmate.
That view always humanized him for me… that and that even as former close friends they never would vote for him for any post more serious than ambassador to Monaco.
I’ve also met Granatelli and his wife… he lives in my town and I’ve also worked for his wife Dollie at the mansion they sold a long time back and then at their home on the beach.
I hear they throw some of the best dinner parties in town, Andy sure likes good food (he’s gotta be the worlds oldest 5′-6″ 375lbs man) It is a small town so I won’t say too much how much fun it is to work for them or whether or not getting the little people paid seemed optional to Dollie, although their harried personal assistant acted as if it might be….. of course I disagreed…
I doubt he’d have voted for Ted for anything either by the way….
I saw Ted Kennedy as a guy who followed/was dragged along in the wake of the family legacy. He did the best he could along that path and knew enough to get the right network of people to do his “papers” and became an icon in his own right.
I did think he should have hung out with Texans like Charlie Wilson and got out of Massachussetts more.
Hang out with the blue dog shitkickers, knock back some Lone Stars and whisky and shoot some shotguns. Go watch a high school football game that’s played in a 35 mile an hour wind while wrapped up in a blanket sandwich with Miss Lubbock on one side and Miss Alpine County on the other and a bottle of Southern Comfort… turn that blueblood a little more red.
Hopefully John Kerry will observe a respectful silence over this loss….. for a decade or even two.
I know Kennedy felt like he was doing his honest best for the US and I hear he had an incredibly decent side…
I’ll stop at that.
But really…. Granatelli? I gotta hear this one… if it is a great story of him being a arrogant demeaning windbag to the powerless, next time I’m over there I will try to get their white carpets some muddy boot prints in your dad’s honor (the best way to get paid is to make a muddy mess through the house all the way to the assistants office… they just want to get rid of you and the carpet cleaning bill is gonna be a big one if I have to keep coming back) and/or I’ll surreptitiously schedule the sprinkler timer to ummmmmm malfunction.. and douse the tiki torches at their cocktail party. So what if they fire me… it’s not as if they won’t eventually call me back. They always have before, and I don’t need them as clients anyway.
SteveG (97b6b9) — 8/26/2009 @ 4:01 amSo dish the dirt before he kicks it and we have to be nice.
I hope that ol’ Ted is getting an earful full from Mary Jo.
Funny how this was so sudden…according to MSM news reports he was doing fine. Strange that.
jack (e383ed) — 8/26/2009 @ 4:02 amresponse to #48:
You have to repent first, and I don’t see ol’Ted doing that. My guess is that the first words out of Ted’s mouth would be “I didn’t do anything wrong.”
jack (e383ed) — 8/26/2009 @ 4:05 amGood Bye, Ted. It will be interesting to find out the reception RFK and JFK give him in the afterlife.
Maybe MA will reject Democrat Socialism and put a Senator from the GOP who represents MA other than Boston.
PCD (5afd92) — 8/26/2009 @ 4:24 amSTP were not bad products. The gas treatment helped in Chicago’s winters, and the oil treatment could put off a ring job on an older car for a few thousans miles more.
nk (b17d90) — 8/26/2009 @ 4:35 amWas sorry to hear of his illness and sorry to hear of his death. Am sure the many unborn children he’s meeting, as well as Mary Jo K, have greeted him with all the charity that belongs to Heaven. Will say a prayer for his family but many more for him, that God will quickly perform whatever purification Ted needs so that he can joyfully join all of them in God’s presence in Paradise.
no one you know (1ebbb1) — 8/26/2009 @ 4:38 amCan anyone find his rebuke of Jesse Helms over MLK day?
imdw (e6c812) — 8/26/2009 @ 4:54 amPer Patterico’s advice:
rudytbone (e6656b) — 8/26/2009 @ 4:57 amNo Comment
“While maintaining my general sense of propriety in deference to our host, I wonder if the Dems will pull another Wellstone funeral moment on us and demand that health care pass to honor the memory of the late Senior Senator from Massachusetts. If so, will it be met with the same sense of revulsion that followed the Wellstone funeral?”
I suppose one way to look at it is to imagine how Kennedy or Wellstone would have wanted it. But that might not fit in to wingnut policy preferences.
[note: fished from spam filter]
imdw (efa369) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:02 amHope Jack and Frank buy a drink for the new arrival at the huki-lau.
RE – Andy Granatelli. Wonder what P’s Pops thought of JC Agajanian.
harkin (f92f52) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:11 amAnother way to look at it would be that it’s undignified and inappropriate to use a funeral to advance policy preferences, much like using a memorial thread to call people wingnuts.
R.I.P. Senator Kennedy and condolences to his friends and family.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:11 amCondolences should be extended to imdw’s family and friends for having to put up with that thing.
JD (240396) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:15 am“Another way to look at it would be that it’s undignified and inappropriate to use a funeral to advance policy preferences”
I suppose it depends on the person being buried. Would MLK prefer that his funeral be used to advance civil rights and social justice? Some are of the “don’t mourn, organize” mold.
imdw (e870b9) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:16 amBTW
Pointing out that “because the host requests it, you will be saying nothing” is, in itself, not nice.
Either say nothing, or just out and say it. The passive-aggressive crap is getting on my nerves.
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:21 amDCSCA:
Robert Frost is a bit too intellectual a way to say goodbye to Teddy.
There is an Irish song (actually a corruption of a Hymn) that would be much more appropriate. In Ireland, it’s recognized by more people than any other tune except their national anthemn. It’s called the “Parting Glass” and the second verse is his perfect farewell:
“Of all the comrades that ere I had, they’re sorry for my going away,
arch (6ebeba) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:22 amAnd of all the sweethearts that ere I had , they wish me one more day to stay,
But since it falls unto my lot that I should rise while you should not,
I will gently rise and I’ll softly call, ‘Goodnight and Joy be with you all!’ ”
.
Treacher will be burning in Hades as well. Good Allah, that was some funny stuff.
JD (240396) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:22 amJust Remember this – Ted lost all of his brothers in the service of our country
EricPWJohnson (9208b2) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:28 amimdw,
I’m not going to be drawn into your game beyond pointing out that whatever MLK or Senator Kennedy would have preferred, you’re the one that chose to call names. Save it for another thread please.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:34 amIn 1965, Ted Kennedy confidently predicted, “No immigrant visa will be issued to a person who is likely to become a public charge.”
walter thomas hingerty (76d5c1) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:37 amAs a Catholic I am very interested in seeing if he will be given a Catholic Funeral despite his opposition to the Church on Abortion and Homosexuality.
Dennis D (ae900a) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:47 amKennedy and Gov. Patrick had pushed to amend the Massachusetts constitution to allow for an appointment in case of a Senate vacancy, but my understanding is that under current Mass law the seat has to remain open until the next election cycle in 2010.
Comment by JVW
Kennedy was the one who pushed for the law change in 2004 to prevent Romney from appointing a successor for Kerry if he won the election. Funny how those things happen. If he hadn’t tried to prevent Romney from using a governor’s prerogative, the Dems wouldn’t have this problem now.
Novak interviewed him in 1968 when he was sent to California in his brother Bobby’s campaign. He told Novak that he was assigned the Republican states, not California. He was holding down a chair. Pretty empty life.
MIke K (2cf494) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:48 am.
My Mom said that if you have to say something nice, don’t say anything at all.
micdeniro (e6d6c2) — 8/26/2009 @ 6:01 amimdw: Conflating civil rights and “social justice” – how leftist. They are completely different – even antithetical.
Eric E. Coe (662cd3) — 8/26/2009 @ 6:02 amMy bet is that Caroline will seek her Uncles Senate seat.
Dennis D (ae900a) — 8/26/2009 @ 6:09 amHow ’bout those Red Sox!
Bubba Maximus (456175) — 8/26/2009 @ 6:13 amWill Judge Bork be speaking at his memorial?
the bhead (a31060) — 8/26/2009 @ 6:21 amHad his brothers lived, there would have been a good chance Teddy would have been more of a Blue Dog Democrat like his older brother
***
I kind of doubt that, in that I suspect his mind was hard-wired to lean left. That’s even likelier the case because his ideology didn’t appear to mature and evolve as he grew older.
I’d only think differently if he had passed away at a much younger age, and therefore not been able to go through and either accept or refute the well-known phrase of “if you’re not a liberal when you’re 20, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative when you’re 40, you have no brain.”
Comment by Mark — 8/25/2009 @ 11:30 pm
***
Novak interviewed him in 1968 when he was sent to California in his brother Bobby’s campaign. He told Novak that he was assigned the Republican states, not California. He was holding down a chair. Pretty empty life.
Comment by MIke K — 8/26/2009 @ 5:48 am
The attitude the RFK people had is why I made my original comment (back at No. 23) that if JFK had lived and had faced the wrath of the far left over Vietnam instead of LBJ, we might have had a far different Edward M. Kennedy.
Teddy was only a leader post-1968 because he had the mantle thrust on him by the death of his brothers. He championed a lot of liberal causes post-Chappaquidick, but only because Bobby had moved to the left in the wake of John’s death and Johnson’s unpopularity due to Vietnam. And especially between June 6, 1968 and June 18, 1969, Teddy was the Barack Obama of his day — he could do absolutely no wrong in the eyes of the left and the big media, but they saw him more as a vessel to push their ideas on the American public than any real source of ideas. That continued after Mary Jo drowned, but the bloom was off the rose for all but the true believers.
My guess is unless JFK had gone hard left after the ’64 election and avoided the wrath of the SDSers, Teddy wasn’t going to break with his brother, and his relationship with the types that eventually loved him the most would have been a lot different, at least in the 1970s. He was never going to turn into Phi Gramm or even Rick Santorum, but a Teddy Kennedy in the political area where someone like Joe Liebermann is right now (and not being dubbed “The Lion of the Senate” by the fawning media) wouldn’t have been out of the question.
John (d4490d) — 8/26/2009 @ 6:41 amI met the Senator on several occasions, and could not wish him well. But I could not wish him the ills that claimed him either. He was what he was. My thoughts and prayers for his family, especially for his sister Jean, who lost both of her remaining siblings this month and is now the last of her generation, and for his children and grandchildren.
Tully (c2f070) — 8/26/2009 @ 6:55 amComment #78 by Rich should be pulled. Not nice.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407) — 8/26/2009 @ 7:07 amTed lived a troubled and troubling life. I cannot say I agreed with anything the man said or did, but at the time of his death I can only hope he made peace with God and now rests in peace at the right hand of his Creator.
RIP.
KingShamus (fb8597) — 8/26/2009 @ 7:27 amI agree not the day for it maybe in a few weeks
EricPWJohnson (9208b2) — 8/26/2009 @ 7:28 amIn 1973, I was in the service, stationed in the DC. I went to galleries and saw the “great man” in the well of the senate. His life of dissipation was obvious from his appearance, totally at odds with the story of the MSM, one of my first disconnects between reality and the vision of the nightly news. It was a short time later that the Communists overran South Vietnam. I learned later that the Senator was instrumental in cutting our support (our obligation under the Paris Peace Accords). Millions of people died throughout Southeast Asia as a consequence of the Congressional betrayal. I find the most difficult part of the Christian faith is forgiveness. In the case of Edward Kennedy, I am still a work in progress and cannot join in the national day of mourning for the “lion” of the senate.
jkstewart2 (c8c1eb) — 8/26/2009 @ 7:28 amRIP – and regarding his behavior…sins of the father.
Dmac (e6d1c2) — 8/26/2009 @ 7:29 amAs a cancer survivor, I sympathize with what Kennedy must have gone through in the final days. I watched my dad deal with cancer twice, the second time it killed him.
Peace to his family and let God bring them solace from their grief.
GM Roper (85dcd7) — 8/26/2009 @ 7:36 am“If you can’t say anything nice, the don’t say anything at all”
OK, I’m fine with that.
tyree (b7243f) — 8/26/2009 @ 7:47 amThis thread is degenerating, contrary to DRJ’s and Patterico’s express requests. Please, if you like this site and respect our hosts, but still need to talk about something, talk about gas and oil additives, and Mario Andretti.
nk (b17d90) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:02 amI agree that a lot of the concern was over not having that vote needed to try and pass some major legislation over the next few months. It’s a little bit ironic that this was changed to prevent a Republican governor from possibly filling a seat and now has the unintended consequence of preventing a Democratic governor from filling the seat. Gotta hate those unintended consequences.
When I read Kennedy’s letter urging the change, I was pleasantly surprised that he seemed to want to avoid using the appointment to give someone a leg up on taking over the seat. From his letter:
It turns out there are some nice things you can say about almost everyone.
Steve (81dc80) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:08 amI wish Joseph Patrick Kennedy Jr. had not perished in 1944.
jim2 (a9ab88) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:14 amI have a ton of these get $1 off anything at Ralph’s coupons and I need to use them this week cause of they expire but I can’t really think of anything I need.
I’ll figure it out it’s just a question of finding the time really.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:28 amRight now they’re just sitting on top of my dresser next to a dead hard drive I haven’t gotten around to doing an rma on.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:30 amMark Turner (#84) – the US does have its aristocracy, from the Kennedy family to the Rockefellers to the Kardashian family … Isn’t former Vice President Gore Albert Gore III ? Even the Bush family should probably be counted in there …
My wife’s mother’s sister’s now-deceased husband was a Judge in Virginia – and one of the time that he and I talked, I asked him about a photo in their house autographed by Bobby Kennedy – turns out that my uncle-in-law (-in-law?) had tutored Bobby in Law School and Bobby expressed his appreciation … when I asked my uncle-in-law about Senator Kennedy, his reply was that he thought he (Ted) was a great guy to party with and fun to be with – and he (uncle-in-law) wouldn’t trust him (Ted) as far as he could throw him (Ted) …
And an aristocarcy is WAAAY better than the fledgling theocracy we seem to be developing right now …
With that said, my condolences to his family – they have been through a lot …
Alasdair (b2b8b6) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:30 amoh. I’m going to be late for work, but I just wanted to leave you with three concepts about which Mr. Kennedy had absolutely no working knowledge. I bet you can think of others.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:32 amWhat happyfeet said.
Peg C. (48175e) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:35 amOK.
This. Is. Getting. Annoying.
The home page shows 98 comments.
I can see only 77. Last one posted at 6:41 AM – that’s 2 hours ago.
Kind of hard to follow along when the site does not update.
Dr. K (eca563) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:41 amThen I post the one above, and wonder of wonders, IT UPDATES.
Dr. K (eca563) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:42 amA moment of complete silence.
Gabby (8c4f90) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:46 amSince my dear mother has taught me never to speak ill of the departed, I shall list only what I see as his positive accomplishments:
The sympathetic Dana (3e4784) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:46 amRIP Mr. Kennedy, though I did not know you and know no cancer victims, survivors or otherwise, I understand it is a terrible disease. My best wishes for your family at this time.
Andy (b63f79) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:48 amFor reals though maybe there should be a second post about Ted’s KGB friends. That’s an interesting story and I’d forgotten I’d ever knew that. NPR never said nothing about it and not Newsweek or MSNBC neither. Thank you to whoever brought that up cause it goes a long way towards explaining how the way he will be remembered is likely to be … complex.
happyfeet (6b707a) — 8/26/2009 @ 9:06 am?
Dr. K (eca563) — 8/26/2009 @ 9:26 amI suppose one way to look at it is to imagine how Kennedy or Wellstone would have wanted it.
Since liberalism/politics is pretty much a religion with a lot of those on the left, certainly something that instills in them a religious-type fervor (“Global warming is a sin! Repent now!! Healthcare, food stamps and a benevolent bureaucracy are the holy trinity! Hallelujah!), I would guess a funeral that is politicizied as much as it’s religious-ized would be touching and wonderful to them.
I still recall the “lefty” in the Reagan family, Ron Jr, being the only one at his father’s funeral who felt he just had to insert a bit of politics into the eulogy he gave. So standing there against the backdrop of the hills of Simi Valley, he made a sly dig at George Bush.
Ron Jr. also struck me as appearing to be emotionally the least affected or moved by the occasion, retaining a sort of passive, detached quality as he spoke. I think of people like him when I read about surveys indicating that higher percentages of folks on the left — contrary to their self-identifying do-gooderism and compassion — actually donate less time, money and blood than those on the right do.
Mark (411533) — 8/26/2009 @ 9:38 am“The Ted Kennedy Legacy: An undisciplined liberalism that doesn’t know its limitations.”
http://travismonitor.blogspot.com/2009/08/ted-kennedy-legacy.html
Travis Monitor (483b36) — 8/26/2009 @ 9:43 amDr. K,
With SuperCache on, if there is not a moderator watching constantly comments can sometimes lag significantly. Also, consider the topic and Patterico’s instructions when looking at comments that disappear or may never have appeared (which may also cause the numbers to change). It can be frustrating at times, but the alternative to SuperCache is risking the site crashing during high traffic.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 8/26/2009 @ 9:44 amIf you run Windows Explorer 7.0, you can defeat Supercache by going to Control Panel, Internet and Network Connections, Internet Options, Delete, Delete All. It’s a pain in the neck but if you just cannot bear to wait to make or read a comment ….
nk (b17d90) — 8/26/2009 @ 9:49 amCondolences to his family. Here’s what I had to say on another site, I think it is OK. NOTE: I cut out the part where I said something negative about his potential fate in a dark, and very, very hot place.
Teddy was a **&*&*&*, no doubt about it. He killed Mary Jo and was pretty much an asshat of a Dem politician his whole life. But if the man found Christ, developed a personal relationship with him, believed in him, sought forgiveness from him and died in his arms, who the heck am I to judge him? I have lied, cheated and stolen in my life – I have made great mistakes and hurt people I love. But I believe that my God, Christ Jesus, has forgiven me my sins and has already paid the price for my sins so I won’t have to.
This sentence has been deleted by the author as not being a positive comment about a terrible, terrible place where Mr. Teddy Kennedy may go depending upon his choice.
J. Raymond Wright (d83ab3) — 8/26/2009 @ 9:53 amWhile I did not agree often with his politics, I greatly admired his ability to get people to work together. As someone else above noticed, he was one of the few remaining veterans in the Senate, and was frequently a leader in “pro-vet” issues. Rest in peace, Senator. You tried to, and did, make the world better, which is more than some can say.
htom (412a17) — 8/26/2009 @ 9:59 amI apologize for my lack of patience. And I do understand that the site is slightly further down the list than, say, a day job.
Dr. K (eca563) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:07 amNot at all, no apologies necessary. I just thought I’d share the info and try to clear up any confusion. I sometimes used to wonder if it was me and what I’d done.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:13 amIt happens, Dr K. We all get frustrated with it now and then. You should have seen the Roxana Mayer threads. They lagged something like 30 comments at a time now and then.
Scott Jacobs (218307) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:13 amWell, in those cases it was you… 🙂
Scott Jacobs (218307) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:14 amKnew I could count on you or JD… my faith is restored! 😉
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:16 amMy prayers are with his family.
In the interest of saying something nice: For a gringo, the man belted out a damn fine version of “Que Lindo es Jalisco.” In my opinion, that took some huevos. Vaya con Diós.
carlitos (9a500c) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:21 am“20.Being a Christian first, a Conservative second and a Republican third, I have to say Ted did as much damage to my kind as he possibly could. But, as a Christian, I cannot help but feel a great sense of sorrow for Ted. The man’s life bore witness to the man’s character and I would never wish for anyone to go through what I believe Ted is going through right now.
Since I believe in the afterlife as fervently as I believe “I exist,” Ted’s death does indeed pain me greatly.”
– John Hitchcock
At the risk of offending Mr. Pink:
“But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’b” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7“or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’c” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”d that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Romans 10:6-9
…The point being that for a lot of professed Christians (John Hitchcock’s not the only one), there certainly is a lot of passive-aggressive “I damn thee to Hell” going on around here (which Scott Jacobs already pointed out, to a degree). You know nothing of the man’s relationship with God: don’t pretend that you do.
Leviticus (f565c1) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:34 amOne of the abilities that Sen. Kennedy had that few in the Senate on either side seem to now was the ability to form real friendships across partisan aisles. Otherwise we wouldn’t be seeing Sen. Hatch releasing musical tributes to him (for example).
I think that ability is something the Senate desperately needs … and so I think he will be missed, and has been missed ever since he stopped being able to do his job sometime earlier this year.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:39 amI’m speechless.
Official Internet Data Office (0ddab0) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:42 amNo doubt it was you, Stashiu. Even Supercache is onto your racist ways.
Back on topic, this is still me saying nothing.
JD (b82a9e) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:44 amI will follow your advice and say nothing
Ken Hahn (82e1e1) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:45 amJD,
Don’t know if you saw this on the other thread, but you were right about swizzle.
Stashiu3 (ed6467) — 8/26/2009 @ 10:48 amThe media and the liberal elite are already starting the canonization process for the late Senator. Up on the Yahoo! homepage is an article considering whether EMK is the most important Kennedy of all, surpassing JFK and RFK. All the hosannas are pouring in — Gordon Brown of Britain and Kevin Rudd of Australia are honoring him as if he had been a two-term President.
Here is a prediction: this is going to backfire on them. Because they are going so overboard with the tributes, the many people antagonistic towards Sen. Kennedy will bide their time but pretty soon will start the counterattack to establish their version of the Kennedy legacy, with all the stories about his personal shortcomings, political extremism, and rank hypocrisy. Because of that, each side will dig in and the Democrats’ health care bill will not benefit one iota from Sen. Kennedy’s death.
JVW (bdbfed) — 8/26/2009 @ 11:02 amLimbaugh had a good take: Politics aside, Ted Kennedy’s fight for life until the very end was valiant and admirable — and the opposite of health care rationing under ObamaCare.
Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R. (a18ddc) — 8/26/2009 @ 11:10 amn a life that is littered with ironies, here’s the biggest one of all: His three older brothers – Joe, Jack and Bobby – are eternally frozen in our imagination as the personifications of youth and vigor (or “vigah”). How poignant that our final image of the baby of that family will be as an old man, frail and mortally ill.
His was the most impressive evolution in American political history. Let’s be honest; in 1962 the guy was a lightweight. He ran for the Democratic nomination against another young man, Edward McCormick, whose uncle was the speaker of the House of Representatives. During a debate McCormick told him that were it not for his name, his candidacy would be viewed as a joke. It was a point well made. It is obvious when looking at film of that campaign that our boy Ted is in way over his head.
Who would have dared dream all those years ago that this punk kid would one day evolve into the greatest senator ever to walk those halls?
An incredible realization just came to me: Teddy represented the state of Massachusetts for forty-six years, eight months and nineteen days. That is nearly three months longer than all the years his older brother Jack lived on earth. Forgive the cliche that is so overused it has become trite through repetition, but this really is the end of an era.
http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com
Tom Degan
Tom Degan (42a1c2) — 8/26/2009 @ 11:12 amGoshen, NY
Nor would Nancy have spoken well of him, and pointed out the friendship her late husband shared with the late Senator.
Scott Jacobs (in class) (9b5ed3) — 8/26/2009 @ 11:12 amWho would have dared dream all those years ago that this punk kid would one day evolve into the greatest senator ever to walk those halls?
If longevity is the criterion, I would say that makes ex-kleagle Robert Byrd the greatest. On the other hand, if accomplishment is considered, I would place about 100 Senators ahead of him. Some of them might even have been greater personal scoundrels than he was but still accomplished much more. John C Calhoun comes to mind. I would place Teddy about where Burton K Wheeler was.
It is amusing to see the ahistorical young leftists getting all misty about Teddy’s accomplishments. If Bush was “born on third base”, Teddy was born at home plate.
Mike K (2cf494) — 8/26/2009 @ 11:25 amI’m reminded of Cathy Seipp when she said that having cancer didn’t make her a better person. Also reminded of my mother who died of pancreas cancer, whose amazing character was evident to the very end.
It’s a horrible disease, it’s terrible to watch a loved one go through what cancer does to a body. He didn’t do his suffering in public, so we have no idea, but his family does. My condolences to them.
RIP.
Vivian Louise (eeeb3a) — 8/26/2009 @ 11:29 amTom Degan just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he should not be allowed outside without supervision.
JD (bb7add) — 8/26/2009 @ 11:56 amHey! I was trying to say something nice.
Dr. K (eca563) — 8/26/2009 @ 11:58 amMy condolences to his family.
PatAZ (9d1bb3) — 8/26/2009 @ 1:31 pmMike K – aye, and his membership in a political dynasty would have counted against him in my book had I ever been asked to vote for or against him.
But I never was, and I can note that – whether he should have been there or not – he ended up being unusually good at the job of Senator, much better than either of mine are.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 8/26/2009 @ 1:37 pmFollowing DRJ’s and my mother’s admonition, I will simply state that I shall make no comments whatsoever about Sen. Edward Kennedy.
MikeD (c83900) — 8/26/2009 @ 2:51 pmAs Scott said, “Pointing out that ‘because the host requests it, you will be saying nothing’ is, in itself, not nice.”
Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R. (a18ddc) — 8/26/2009 @ 3:44 pmGood grief, people. We get it that you’re not happy with EMK, but the snark isn’t needed.
I disagreed with the Senator on nearly every political issue, but I am sad for his family, and I hope he met his end with dignity and peace.
No man knows his time. And we will have plenty of time later to be irreverent & disrespectful.
For now, just give him and his family a respite from the snark. He was, like all of us, merely a human with good and bad points.
steve miller (616e2b) — 8/26/2009 @ 5:45 pmDignity and peace went out the window last week when Teddy called for the MA constitution to be amended.
That was a dirty bottom of the deck dealing scut move.
Let him be remembered for all eternity by it, the perfect encapsulation of his character.
papertiger (830204) — 8/26/2009 @ 7:12 pmDude, he had it changed in the first place, back before the 2004 election. Are you new to the party?
Scott Jacobs (d027b8) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:26 pmScott, I think it’s much more undignified specifically because it was Ted who had argued both sides of the issue very close together, with his family’s heirloom senate seat being the only real difference. He was that corrupt that he didn’t care if he was arguing both sides… he was just hell bent on his family keeping that senate seat. I hope to hell that they don’t, though Ted Kennedy was an extremely gifted senator (who I disagree with on most issues).
When I look over his career, it’s amazing how much power he had.
Juan (bd4b30) — 8/26/2009 @ 8:35 pm“imdw: Conflating civil rights and “social justice” – how leftist. They are completely different – even antithetical.”
They’re different. And MLK worked for both.
[note: fished from spam filter]
imdw (be85b6) — 8/28/2009 @ 4:41 am#64- As his own son, Patrick, quoted Frost during EMK’s funeral services today in Boston, it seems quite appropriate.
DCSCA (9d1bb3) — 8/29/2009 @ 1:01 pm