Patterico's Pontifications

6/5/2009

Obama’s Strained European Relations

Filed under: International,Obama — DRJ @ 2:16 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

Following his visit to Saudi Arabia and Egypt, Barack Obama will complete his international trip with brief stops in Europe including appearances at Buchenwald with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and at the D-Day memorial with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

Unfortunately, U.S. relations with Germany are becoming increasingly strained, a tension that dates back to the Presidential campaign when “Merkel rejected Mr. Obama’s request during the presidential campaign to speak in front of the Brandenburg Gate.” In today’s visit at Buchenwald, Obama appropriately rebuked Holocaust deniers but also expressed “grief and … outrage” for German actions in World War II, a marked contrast to the understanding that characterized his recent message to the world’s Muslims.

Obama’s attitude toward French President Sarkozy is similarly strained. Last week Obama surprised both the French and British with his efforts to get the Queen invited to this weekend’s D-Day memorial. Today Obama refused a dinner invitation from Sarkozy and his wife Carla Bruni. The UK Times speculates Obama’s irritation stems from Sarkozy’s treament of him at the G20 summit in London:

“Mr Obama’s irritation with his French counterpart began when Mr Sarkozy tried to grab the limelight at the G20 summit in London in April and talked condescendingly of the US President in private. Mr Sarkozy told colleagues that he found Mr Obama to be inexperienced and unbriefed, especially on climate change. Mr Obama hit back last month, telling a visiting French minister: “Please tell Nicolas that I shall do my homework, and in two months I’ll know all about climate change.”

By conceding that he will know “all about” climate change at their next meeting, Obama tacitly admits he was not prepared on climate change at the G20. In other words, Sarkozy may have been right when he said Obama was “inexperienced and unbriefed, especially on climate change.” Now Obama is telling Sarkozy not to mess with the coolest kid on the block.

— DRJ

193 Responses to “Obama’s Strained European Relations”

  1. We ARE in the best of hands.

    I could well imagine that some of the Euros are now looking back, perhaps not with affection,
    but with less than their earlier disdain, to the days of Bush/Rumsfeld.

    AD - RtR/OS! (b0c533)

  2. A French president who needles Obama as unoriginal, unsubstantial and overrated, having pointedly befriended the junior senator on a visit to Washington in 2006, is tres jejune.

    steve (4be49f)

  3. The Empty Suit continues its run.

    SPQR (72771e)

  4. Sarko is doing exactly what every French President has done since DeGaulle – it plays to the masses, and typifies the French attitude of contrariness at all times. However, unlike Obama, Sarko had to actually debate his opponents during the campaign without the use of the teleprompter, and had to deal with a hostile press 24/7 – so if he calls him out to be a lightweight, who cares if he’s duplicitous about it? He’s right, and he has the past history to back it up.

    Dmac (f7884d)

  5. I don’t know how many are aware the De Gaulle was a very close friend of Nixon dating back to the Eisenhower Administration. There is an interesting chapter about it in Conrad Black’s biography of Nixon.

    I could hope that Obama has read this book as part of his education on “climate change”.

    the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC) has released an 880-page book challenging the scientific basis of concerns that global warming is either man-made or would have harmful effects.

    In “Climate Change Reconsidered: The 2009 Report of the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC),” coauthors Dr. S. Fred Singer and Dr. Craig Idso and 35 contributors and reviewers present an authoritative and detailed rebuttal of the findings of the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), on which the Obama Administration and Democrats in Congress rely for their regulatory proposals.

    The scholarship in this book demonstrates overwhelming scientific support for the position that the warming of the twentieth century was moderate and not unprecedented, that its impact on human health and wildlife was positive, and that carbon dioxide probably is not the driving factor behind climate change.

    The authors cite thousands of peer-reviewed research papers and books that were ignored by the IPCC, plus additional scientific research that became available after the IPCC’s self-imposed deadline of May 2006.

    The Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC) is an international panel of nongovernment scientists and scholars who have come together to understand the causes and consequences of climate change. Because it is not a government agency, and because its members are not predisposed to believe climate change is caused by human greenhouse gas emissions, NIPCC is able to offer an independent “second opinion” of the evidence reviewed by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

    Well, I can hope.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  6. Mike, you’re starting to halucinate again.
    Time to get back on your meds.
    Heh!

    AD - RtR/OS! (b0c533)

  7. NASA just came out with a study yesterday that pointed to,wait for it, the sun rather than man’s activities as the cause of global warming. I believe it came out of that Goddard place, which is Hansen’s shop, isn’t it? How did that happen?

    Wait for a retraction. Can’t have revisionism screwing up cap and trade and the prospects for a tighter command and control economy, can we.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  8. Personally, I would have a hard time declining a dinner invitation from Carla Bruni. Sasquatch must have made him do it.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  9. It turns out Berlusconi is more Sarkozy’s speed. That should tell you something.

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/obama-not-up-to-standard-sarkozy-20090417-a9ku.html

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  10. Betweeen the nascent Nazi, the cheese-eating French surrender monkey, and the Magical Mau Mau, I’ll go with our American Mistake, thanks. He may be a Chisago Machine butt-boy but we made him our Chicago Machine Butt-boy.

    nk (157acd)

  11. When Obama gets properly briefed on climate change, both he and Sarkozy will be able to tell us what proper temperature setting should be for planet earth. We are fortunate to have such brilliant men fine-tuning the atmosphere for us.

    a.m. young (494862)

  12. #8

    Who is “Sasquatch?”

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  13. I’m betting “Sasquatch” must be The Mistress Of The Biceps, the big M.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  14. The scholarship in this book demonstrates overwhelming scientific support for the position that the warming of the twentieth century was moderate and not unprecedented, that its impact on human health and wildlife was positive, and that carbon dioxide probably is not the driving factor behind climate change.

    My understanding of the geological history of the Earth seems to tell me that warming trends tend to be good for the planet.Ice ages,on the other hand are the real killers.

    cleantalkingchimp (26bee7)

  15. I think that Teh One long ago missed the difference between being liked and being respected.

    JD (72cf0d)

  16. I’ll say it one more time and then shut up. Neither the Germans nor the French have ever been our friends or reliable allies. Jokes aside, Obama is the President of the United States of America and we should not take the side of any foreign leader against him.

    nk (157acd)

  17. Agreed, nk. But wasn’t the election of Teh One supposed to fix all of this?

    JD (72cf0d)

  18. Ok, a third time. Not even Israel which has been a good friend and reliable ally.

    nk (157acd)

  19. Agreed, nk. But wasn’t the election of Teh One supposed to fix all of this?

    Comment by JD — 6/5/2009 @ 4:14 pm

    We keep it in the kitchen, although not during supper at the table. But we never take any stranger’s side against the family. Never.

    nk (157acd)

  20. I think that Teh One long ago missed the difference between being liked and being respected.

    He likes himself, he respects himself. What else is there?

    Sarkozy and Obama, two preening peacocks simpering about who’s the coolest. At least Sarkozy has a cool accent.

    Dana (aedf1d)

  21. “Mr Sarkozy told colleagues that he found Mr Obama to be inexperienced and unbriefed, especially on climate change.”

    Sounds like a typical Frenchman. They’re better than us at everything…except fighting Germans, of course.

    Dave Surls (8fc1ad)

  22. nk,

    I guess you must be talking to me but I don’t think I’m taking the side of France or Germany. The relationships are what they are and while I don’t care what other countries think of us, Obama said he did. At least I think he did, but his “Strengthening America Overseas” page has apparently been deleted from his campaign website.

    DRJ (180b67)

  23. I don’t think anyone has to be gentle with either of the Obamas (or any other American political figure) in the comments section of a political blog, but calling Mrs. Obama “Sasquatch” goes too far.

    I don’t know how Patrick Frey feels about it, but I would hope he disapproves.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  24. Don’t call Michelle Obama Sasquatch.

    DRJ (180b67)

  25. nk,

    I guess you must be talking to me but I don’t think I’m taking the side of France or Germany.

    No, DRJ, I was not. I know you better than that. I was talking to my fellow commenters who may have been taking your point further that it was intended.

    nk (157acd)

  26. Tim, first and foremost, I rather agree that the “Sasquatch” comments about Michelle Obama (ditto the “Klingon” comments) are inappropriate. Many people try to act all macho about comments of that sort (“…toughen up…” and such), but I agree with you on that subject in general. The nastiness of modern politics (which is not new; newspaper editorials on Abraham Lincoln used to call him an “ignorant ape” from time to time) is not helpful.

    But I find that many people look at this topic through partisan-colored glasses: very sensitive on the one hand, and very cavalier or dismissive on the other. For example, with all due respect, I will bet cash money that you have called political figures with which you disagree names—or not been quite as outraged by the comments of others as you are over the Michelle Obama comments (which, again, I do not think are appropriate).

    For example, you clearly like Wonkette, from your own blog in 2005:

    “..Tuesday night the week before, I walked down the Bunker Hill Steps to the Riordan Central Library to hear Ana Marie Cox, editor of the “Wonkette” blog that skewers George Bush’s Washington with outrageous humor….”

    Um. Cox has written some nasty and spiteful stuff. Outrageous, perhaps. Humor? Not so much. Unless you think that calling Michelle Obama names is also humorous. In the same article (from your own blog), you quote Cox as saying:

    “She described White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove, for instance, as “a giggling bully” and “the fat kid [in school] who now has power.”

    Regarding George W. Bush, she expressed distaste for those who take the “Bush is Hitler” tack. “That turns him into a cartoon character, but he’s much more frightening than a cartoon character.””

    The Rove comment is just as demeaning as the Sasquatch comment. Right? But I noticed that you didn’t criticize that in your own article. And Cox’s “frightening” comment is just plain silly.

    But I suspect you agree with her on that topic, so it is much less objectionable.

    Perhaps you feel that Michelle Obama is somehow not a politician, and therefore should not be hammered. Okay. But Cox certainly went after the Bush children:

    http://wonkette.com/290373/how-pregnant-is-jenna-bush

    And that is the veritable tip of the iceberg where people like Ana Marie Cox are concerned.

    You seem like a decent fellow. I agree with you that calling Michelle Obama personal names is not only in bad taste, but corrosive to decent discourse. And I hope that you will agree with me that all the personal name calling directed toward Republicans is equally reprehensible.

    I hope you agree with me that “Wonkette” is part of the problem, even when she is politically more your cup of tea.

    As I say, perhaps you do find Ana Cox as repugnant on that basis as I do. I hope so.

    DRJ, I do agree that the “jokes” about Michelle Obama are inappropriate. We have much larger problems with which to wrestle. And for those of us on the Right, didn’t we hear enough of that sort of thing directed toward people on “our” side?

    Everyone’s mileage may vary. Just my opinions.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  27. I thought Obama was going to fix American arrogance.

    That anecdote about Obama being found inexperienced -if true- is nothing that hasn’t been pointed out before.
    If Obama was indeed unprepared, I don’t see it as a slam, but as a cause for concern, because you can overcome inexperience… or at least mitigate it effectively, by being very well prepared.

    I wonder specifically where it was felt Obama is lacking on the subject of climate change…. I personally have the impression that much of the left leadership confines its research on the subject to watching “An Inconvenient Truth” with James Hansen.

    SteveG (c99c5c)

  28. Good comment, Eric. Well-researched, clearly stated, and worth remembering.

    DRJ (180b67)

  29. Aw, shucks, I can’t call Michelle a Klingon, anymore?

    nk (157acd)

  30. nk,

    Ask Tim. Or Yahoo.

    DRJ (180b67)

  31. When was the last time I told you I [can’t say it]?

    nk (157acd)

  32. It’s a tough subject, DRJ. People whom I like very much call political opponents names, and they get impatient with me, or claim that I am trying to censor them.

    Fact is, I great disliked all the bile showered over Republicans during the past eight years.

    I want to argue for the high road—to show that Republicans/Conservatives can be better than that. But my comments make me few friends.

    nk, that all depends if you have a bat’leth hanging on the wall nearby, I suppose.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  33. Eric, I’m not sure that Cox’s Rove comment is precisely comparable. Her real target seems to be the psychology she perceives behind the physicality.

    I do agree with you that her column on Jenna Bush is repugnant, unfair and empty of genuine humor.

    I’m glad we agree on “sasquatch” and “Klingon,” as well.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  34. Eric – Wonkette could make me blush, no small feat. Hypocrisy, for the Left, it is what’s for breakfast.

    JD (d467d3)

  35. Thank you Tim. Though, speaking as someone who has had to deal with many “fat” jokes over the years, I cannot agree with you over the pass you give her on Rove.

    It was not psychological, any more than the people who have to bring up Rush Limbaugh’s weight are making psychological critiques.

    They are being nasty, because they don’t like the person. And what better way to demean and disrespect someone than to insult personal appearance? Hence the Sasquatch business.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  36. JD, I don’t know precisely who Wonkette is trying to make blush, but I suspect it someone more central than you or me.

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  37. “Don’t call Michelle Obama Sasquatch.”

    I’ll think of something different.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  38. It’s some # Rule of Alinsky’s. In Hillary’s wherever thesis. Ridicule is the most powerful weapon of the [otherwise weaponless].

    A more valid rule: Breaking the silence.

    nk (157acd)

  39. I’ve always been of the mind that attacking physicality is easy, cheap and provides the necessary distraction from having to coherently and logically argue one’s point. Not everyone is blessed to look like ___________(fill in the blank). Most of us are just normal dorks and that’s a drag if you’re in the public eye.

    Dana (aedf1d)

  40. If we’re supposed to keep these disagreements within the family, just who is going to take Barry fishing?

    AD - RtR/OS! (b0c533)

  41. nk, isn’t that what Jon Stewart, Letterman, etc are all about?

    Eric Blair (0b61b2)

  42. If we’re supposed to keep these disagreements within the family, just who is going to take Barry fishing?

    Comment by AD – RtR/OS! — 6/5/2009 @ 6:10 pm

    That is a serious question, AD. Who are the career staffers of the executive departments, and the hereditery appointees to the Circuit Courts of Appeals, these days?

    nk (c788b4)

  43. Barry’s problem is that he goes hither and yon criticizing the past performances of his country, and then gets all bent out of shape when someone here (within the country) has the audacity to criticize HIM!
    This is one strange fellow.

    AD - RtR/OS! (b0c533)

  44. _________________________________________

    Jokes aside, Obama is the President of the United States of America and we should not take the side of any foreign leader against him.

    However, it doesn’t help that the guy chosen to lead this country travels to foreign lands and gravitates towards a Blame-America-First or moral-equivalency ethos, in which the US really shouldn’t think it’s all that. Moreover, he sat for years and years listening to a preacher man spouting off things like “Goddamn America.”

    With friends like that, who needs enemies?

    BTW, the president of France and the chancellor of Germany are generally to the right of the guy occupying the White House. When leaders from the land of EuroSocialism aren’t as liberal as Barry is, that’s a rather disconcerting thought.

    Moreover, it reminds me of the glib comments voiced the other day by none other than this character—whose tongue wasn’t necessarily as firmly in cheek as it could have been, given the ideology of Obama:

    Reuters

    Venezuela’s President Hugo Chavez said on Tuesday that he and Cuban ally Fidel Castro risk being more conservative than U.S. President Barack Obama as Washington prepares to take control of General Motors Corp.

    “Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Comrade Obama! Fidel, careful or we are going to end up to his right,” Chavez joked on a live television broadcast.

    When Obama gets properly briefed on climate change, both he and Sarkozy will be able to tell us what proper temperature setting should be for planet earth.

    If they’re so sure manmade carbon dioxide is a major peril to our environment — that it’s so powerful a force upon our puny planet!! — I suggest they go outside on a clear day, preferably around noontime, and look straight up into the sun without the use of any protection for their eyeballs.

    Talk about a force of nature so powerful that on any given day a mere human — a mere mortal running around in his tiny bubble of carbon dioxide and other junk — could be struck blind in an instant.

    Mark (411533)

  45. ‘“Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Comrade Obama! Fidel, careful or we are going to end up to his right,” Chavez joked on a live television broadcast.’

    Too bad, it ain’t no joke.

    Dave Surls (8be03d)

  46. Sarkozy and Obama, two preening peacocks simpering about who’s the coolest. At least Sarkozy has a cool accent.

    Comment by Dana — 6/5/2009 @ 4:28 pm

    And Sarkozy speaks a foreign language! 😉

    in_awe (bc82df)

  47. NK,

    I would side with POTUS against the foreign leaders if and when someone could show proof that the Democrats did the same thing with President Bush over Hugo Chavez or President Ahmadinijad.

    If I remeber correctly, the Left cheered Chavez and Ahamadinijad at the UN.

    In fact, the Left supported Saddam Hussain staying in power, rape rooms and all against President Bush.

    JSF (98a373)

  48. #47

    Back in 2006, Nancy Pelosi’s harsh words for Hugo Chavez, after the latter called George Bush “the devil” in a U.N. speech, drew extensive coverage. I seemed to recall that other Democrats, including Charles Rangel, the NY congressman, responded to Chavez’ attack on Bush with sharp criticism.

    http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/9/21/135053.shtml?s=ic

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  49. #48

    Yes, and that was nice, but Sarkozy’s criticism is hardly the same as Chavez calling Bush “the devil”.

    No Democrat ever spoke up against any of the less over-the-top snubs Bush received from foreign leaders; in fact, it was Exhibit A in their weird case that nobody was anti-American before Bush’s presidency.

    Mars vs Hollywood (f062b9)

  50. Obama has no class. I don’t care that he has an Ivy League education. He still has no class!!!!!

    Lisa (2ec3c7)

  51. #49

    You are certainly right, Sarkozy and Chavez are worlds apart. I was simply responding to the poster at #47 who seemed unaware of what happened in 2006.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  52. The thing is, no matter what we may think of Pelosi, Reid, or Obama, they are still Americans. What I liked most about McCain was when he said “I looked into Putin’s eyes and saw the letters K, G and B”. Whenever Obama pisses off a foreign leader it pleases me, because it means he is putting America first. When he bows to the king of Saudi Arabia, that pisses me off.

    nk (c788b4)

  53. nk – Just because I share Sarkozy’s opinion that Obama is an empty suited, unqualified President, that does not mean I am taking Sarkozy’s side. If I was expressing support for Sarkozy, that would be a different matter, but an independent opinion arriving at the same conclusion is not necessarily what you claim.

    Sarkozy, btw, was a nice change among french presidents along with the gradual rightward tilt of western european leaders in the latter half of the Bush presidency. That they can spot a fraud and poseur like Obama is no surprise.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  54. I agree with Daley – when the two largest European economies are rejecting Obama’s calls for more stimulus spending, I’m hopeful that he’ll take the hint at some point, since he doesn’t seem to be listening to anyone here at the moment. It has nothing to do with “taking sides,” sorry.

    Eric, I’m not sure that Cox’s Rove comment is precisely comparable. Her real target seems to be the psychology she perceives behind the physicality.

    A distinction without a difference, as usual. Next time you deign to come on here and lecture others about supposed morality imperfections, try to remember your past behavior before posting.

    Dmac (f7884d)

  55. #54

    I haven’t lectured anyone, Dmac. I found daleyrock’s reference to Michelle Obama as “Sasquatch” objectionable and said so.

    I’m very comfortable with my past behavior, which contains nothing that makes me at all reluctant to post my honest opinions here, as I see fit.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  56. Tim – Out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to “re-interpret” Thomas’s words for him?

    JD (034f78)

  57. #56

    JD, I think I’ve answered that in the appropriate thread.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  58. “I haven’t lectured anyone, Dmac. I found daleyrock’s reference to Michelle Obama as “Sasquatch” objectionable and said so.”

    What a SURPRISE!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  59. Chavez told a newspaper that Obama could “wipe his ass”.
    Obama took a book from him after that.

    Someone tells me I can wipe their ass, if I have to shake his hand in public like that, I smile, pull him in real close and tell him to go *bleep* himself, let go and smile real big like its all a big bunch of fun and toss the book to an aide.

    SteveG (c99c5c)

  60. Thank you, daleyrocks and Dmac, and I was not trying to put words in anyone’s mouth, either. I was remembering how much we were deriding John “Francois” Kerry’s Francophilia, among other things.

    nk (c788b4)

  61. Obama is one scary ‘happening’ in our country

    marcia landry (d542d8)

  62. Tim – Out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to “re-interpret” Thomas’s words for him?

    Welcome to Tim’s standard MO – get used to it.

    I’m very comfortable with my past behavior, which contains nothing that makes me at all reluctant to post my honest opinions here, as I see fit.

    OK, then I’ll feel more than comfortable on calling out your past behavior every time you attempt to lecture others regarding their actions. Get used to it.

    Dmac (f7884d)

  63. “I haven’t lectured anyone, Dmac. I found daleyrock’s reference to Michelle Obama as “Sasquatch” objectionable and said so.”

    Remember, it’s not “lecturing” unless as defined by Tim – welcome to another of his usual MO’s.

    Dmac (f7884d)

  64. Reasonable people can be offended by the “Sasquatch” dig at Mrs. God.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  65. Oh, my. Little Dmac is going to be calling me out!

    Pseudonymously, of course. That’s his M.O.

    We’ve gone down this road before, Dmac, and here I am, still posting. If Patrick Frey has any objections, he hasn’t shared them with me. Until he does, I’ll continue to post here as I see fit, without regard to whether it pleases you or your friends.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  66. Tim McGarry,

    Yesterday you objected to Sasquatch, presumably as a dig against Michelle Obama’s size, but today you refer to Dmac as “Little Dmac.” Maybe you see a difference but I don’t.

    DRJ (180b67)

  67. It’s his moral stature I had in mind, DRJ.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  68. Little Dmac is going to be calling me out!

    That’s how you challenge someone’s morality, Tim?

    DRJ (180b67)

  69. Tim and Dmac, take heed from another famous quarreling duo:

    Stomper halted in the march and let out a deep sigh of dread and boredom. The narcs were leaving them farther and farther behind. Carefully he unwrapped a square of the elvish magic zwieback and broke it into four equal pieces.

    “Eat all, for this is the last we have,” he said, palming the fourth piece for later.

    Legolam and Gimlet chewed gravely and silently. All around them they felt the malicious presence of Serutan, the evil Wizard of Isinglass. His malignant influence hung heavy in the air, his secret forces impeding their search. Forces that took many forms, but for the present came as the runs.

    Gimlet, who, if possible, liked Legolam even less than at Riv’n’dell, gagged on his portion of zwieback.

    “A curse on the elves and their punk grub,” he grumbled.

    “And on the dwarves,” returned Legolam, “whose taste is in their mouths.”

    For the twentieth time the pair drew weapons, lusting for each other’s chitlins, but Stomper intervened lest one be killed. The food was gone anyway.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  70. DRJ, it’s a rhetorical technique I picked up from Bradley J. Fikes.

    Look, yesterday I posted an objection to the way daleyrocks referrred to Michelle Obama. I kept it short and to the point. I didn’t call him any names.

    The usual reaction set in. There are a number of people who don’t like to see me post here. Perhaps you are one of them, although I can’t recall that any incivility has passed between us.

    Regardless of how others respond, I will continue to post here until our host indicates that I am not welcome.

    As to Dmac, I have no conception of his physicality. It’s his words that make him seem small to me.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  71. It’s his moral stature I had in mind, DRJ.

    That’s a telling comment, considering that you previously told a soldier that was serving in active duty in a combat zone in Iraq that you’d (and I quote here) “kick his ass.” What kind of person has the temerity to judge anyone else’s morality after that kind of display of papier mache’ tough – guy poseur?

    We’ve gone down this road before, Dmac, and here I am, still posting. If Patrick Frey has

    I wonder if our esteemed host is aware of your past stated hatred of this very site – yet suddenly you’ve decided to start posting here. So which is it, Tim – were you a rank hypocrite then, or are you a rank hypocrite now?

    Dmac (f7884d)

  72. At some point there has to be little sasquatches, baby yeti right?

    Most of the pictures of supposed yeti I’ve seen look like bad black and white still photo outtakes from la familia peluche…

    SteveG (c99c5c)

  73. Well, here we go again, round and round in circles. I’m still here, Dmac. In one of your favorite phrases, get used to it.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  74. DRJ,
    I hope you will take into consideration that Tim has been repeatedly attacked in a personal and nasty manner by several people here and has almost always responded in a calm and reasoned manner. None of these attacks on him were in response to anything he did to the attackers, other than express his reasoned opinions. They seem to mostly be because a the parties involved can not produce reasoned responses to his points and so they challenge him over things he said years ago on a different site and claim his views have no place here until he answers all challenges or abases himself. I am surprised at how civil he remains and hope you will cut him some slack. Some of his detractors have indeed made themselves look rather small by comparison.

    Machinist (9664a8)

  75. Tim McGarry,
    DRJ, it’s a rhetorical technique I picked up from Bradley J. Fikes.

    Consider following my example a step further and do something more substantive: Patch up your quarrels with Mike K., Dmac and Ody.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  76. I’m happy switching to “Blackie O” since the media feels Michelle is such a diva and everything. Tim probably won’t like that either, but there’s just no pleasing some people. Owebama and his supporters are just hypersensitive.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  77. President God and Mrs. God have a nice ring to it.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  78. Bradley,

    Good one.

    Machinist,

    I think Tim can take care of himself, and I’m sure he wouldn’t want it any other way.

    DRJ (180b67)

  79. Machinist, please stop acting as if this is some kind of exercise in the Marques of Queensbury Rules – you sound like a grade – schooler, forever screaming “teacher! He did it! He did it!” Either comment on the subject in the post, or don’t – stay out of a discussion you have no past historical knowledge of in the future, please.

    Dmac (f7884d)

  80. Consider following my example a step further and do something more substantive: Patch up your quarrels with Mike K., Dmac and Ody.

    Excellent advice – let’s see if he follows it.

    Dmac (f7884d)

  81. Well, what is it? Is Michelle a Sasquatch or a Klingon? Do we need to wait the results of a DNA test?

    nk (c788b4)

  82. DRJ,
    As you will.

    Dmac,
    I will take your request under advisement.

    Machinist (9664a8)

  83. nk,

    You liked to stir up anthills as a kid, didn’t you?

    DRJ (180b67)

  84. No, I did not. I am very kind to animals. One time (true story) my mother stepped on an ant and I scolded her for it.

    the nk who is following Andrew Sullivan's precedent (c788b4)

  85. I felt the same way as a kid but now I’m less charitable if they show up in my kitchen.

    DRJ (180b67)

  86. Michelle Obama is an intelligent, well-educated and, from all reliable reports, classy lady, raising two beautiful little girls.

    I’ll show a little class, too, and back off. She is not her husband.

    the nk who is following Andrew Sullivan's precedent (c788b4)

  87. Well, Bradley, let’s see. Daleyrocks has moved from “Sasquatch” (a tall, ape-like, creature of myth) to “Blackie O” — an explicit, unequivocal reference to Michelle Obama’s pigmentation. And you, DRJ, Dmac, et. al., seem to be just fine with it.

    And you’re going to be my moral instructor? Thanks, but I think I’ll pass.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  88. Tim McGarry,

    I have no desire to be your moral instructor, nor do I think Michelle Obama needs you or me to protect her online reputation.

    DRJ (180b67)

  89. Fine, DRJ, but I think the reputation on the line may be the one belonging to the owner of this site.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  90. Tim – I’m sure I can piss you off for months on end given your tender sensibilities and how seriously you appear to take each comment. It’s funny how that works now that your people are in power instead of Bushhitler as Bradley pointed out above. Your ilk has a problem seeing hypocrisy in its own ranks. I know, I know, you claim you are not part of any ilk. You are an individual, but your reactions on this thread demonstrate otherwise.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  91. Tim,

    Is it your position that the comments reflect on Patrick as owner of this blog? I’ll be glad to get Patrick involved but I don’t think that’s a realistic or defensible position.

    DRJ (180b67)

  92. Now, Tim, where the heck did your smack at Patterico come from? Remember that when I suggested some comments made by people you like were over the top, you kept saying that they weren’t about, say, physicality.

    Can’t you see that is what people you don’t agree with are doing, too?

    Mind you, I don’t like the personal attacks on political figures (even though I have been guilty of calling Nancy Pelosi “Granny McBotox”). But people I like and respect aren’t shy about that. Should I criticize them for it? Or should I defend the “metatruth” of their comments—much as you did above?

    But your smack at Patterico is uncalled for. You have a history, at least once before, of writing some unpleasant things about Mr. Frey. I don’t get that, given your wish to comment here.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  93. DRJ, though I do not consider Tim McGarry a classical troll, there certainly seem to be a lot of them out tonight. A metaphoric full moon, maybe?

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  94. Tim – Do you call for civility at lefty sites? Could you point us to a few examples?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  95. I felt the same way as a kid but now I’m less charitable if they show up in my kitchen.

    Comment by DRJ — 6/6/2009 @ 4:14 pm

    We have had a terrible infestation of feral ants, up here, for the past two months. My wife was even bitten while doing yardwork — stinging her and raising a welt. They have not gotten into the house. Yet.

    nk (c788b4)

  96. You seem confused, Eric. I’m not the one smacking Patterico.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  97. You said his reputation may be on the line. That sounds like a smack to me.

    DRJ (180b67)

  98. nk,

    Try spreading peppercorns around the yard. It helps keep ants and mosquitoes away. I buy 2 cheap, jumbo jars at Sam’s and it lasts all summer.

    DRJ (180b67)

  99. So this isn’t you?

    “…I think the reputation on the line may be the one belonging to the owner of this site….”

    As I stated earlier, I have found prior comments by you being pretty unpleasant about Mr. Frey. And I am guessing that you are suggesting that he police this site in a way of which you approve.

    Sometimes he does police the site for particular commentary. Other times he is just a bit busy with his job. You know perfectly well he has banned people for exceptionally rude behavior.

    As someone who has their own blog, you know that the blog owner gets to make her or his own rules. Making you or I happy is probably not very high on that list of rules. Still, there are a lot of things that I find worthwhile here. Surely that balances out some language of which you do not approve.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  100. Tim

    This is tedious.
    Calling for Patrick to referee is lame.

    Let’s move on.

    SteveG (c99c5c)

  101. DRJ—does the peppercorn thing work in your experience? I have colleagues who teach animal behavior, and what a great student project to try and get some numbers (with the ants, anyway).

    Mosquitoes are like little flying robots looking for carbon dioxide we exhale. How cool if the pepper works.

    Speaking of pepper, to lighten the mood on a Saturday night, watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvK2Y1hv9mY

    It makes me laugh every time.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  102. DRJ, if anyone is “smacking” Patterico, it’s daleyrocks. The risk to Patrick’s reputation comes from him, not me.

    Of course, like you, he may feel otherwise. If so, fine. It’s his site.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  103. Eric,

    I’ve used the peppercorns in the yard and around the pool in the past 2 summers, primarily because one of our sons is allergic to insect bites. It absolutely worked. He went from multiple bites every time he went outside to no bites during the entire summer.

    DRJ (180b67)

  104. SteveG, I’m not calling for anyone to “referee.”

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  105. Tim, please make sure that you own blog house does not have glass walls. Kind of like your approving commentary on Wonkette. To be sure, you criticized her for the mean spirited and inaccurate comments she has made when they were brought to your attention. But you thought she was funny on your blog.

    If you are trying to suggest that Patterico is a racist, have at it. If you are trying to call daley a racist, have at it.

    Do keep in mind that DRJ did ask folks to tone down the Michelle Obama comments. I don’t know Patterico’s position on this, but—as you know—he has banned commenters for unacceptable language. And I haven’t seen him post tonight (though, again, DRJ did weigh in on this topic).

    It does give credence to the hypothesis you have issues with Mr. Frey. Why not write to him directly with your concerns? He has always been polite to me.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  106. On a lighter note, DRJ, that is fascinating. There is always a germ of truth to many “folk remedies.” That will be an interesting experiment to try—do peppercorns repel ants under lab conditions?

    Mosquitos are a little tougher to work with for me!

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  107. Mosquitoes are like little flying robots looking for carbon dioxide we exhale.

    Nope. Mosquitoes live on plant sap. Female mosquitoes need a taste of mammalian blood to fertilize their eggs. (Yes, if you have been bitten by a mosquito, you are a daddy, even if you are a girl. 😉 ) They smell the sweat, so anything that covers it, like citronella or basil, kind of works.

    nk (c788b4)

  108. Mosquitoes are like little flying robots looking for carbon dioxide we exhale.

    Nope. Mosquitoes live on plant sap. Female mosquitoes need a taste of mammalian blood to fertilize their eggs. (Yes, if you have been bitten by a mosquito, you are a daddy, even if you are a girl. 😉 ) They smell the sweat, so anything that covers it, like citronella or basil, kind of works.

    nk (c788b4)

  109. Mosquitoes are like little flying robots looking for carbon dioxide we exhale.

    Nope. Mosquitoes live on plant sap. Female mosquitoes need a taste of mammalian blood to fertilize their eggs. (Yes, if you have been bitten by a mosquito, you are a daddy, even if you are a girl. 😉 ) They smell the sweat, so anything that covers it, like citronella or basil, kind of works.

    nk (c788b4)

  110. Good Lord! Honestly, guys, I did nothing to cause a comment to post three times. As far as I know, anyway.

    nk (c788b4)

  111. Mark, you really are the most consistently fatuous windbag I have ever encountered.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  112. There is always a germ of truth to many “folk remedies.”

    For minor cuts and abrasions, I trust a sliced garlic clove, cut so that the juice comes out, rubbed on the wound, over any other non-prescrition local antiseptic.

    nk (c788b4)

  113. DRJ, if anyone is “smacking” Patterico, it’s daleyrocks.

    Tim – Sorry, you are mistaken once more. I am smacking the left’s group hallucinations over the Obamas as the saviors of the planet and the most unique beings to “EVAH” serve in Washington.

    I think you must have missed Patterico’s pieces on the O’Reilly/Hot Air kerfuffle. You should take a look at those before digging your hole deeper.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  114. Well, nk, my reading of the literature has always been that female mosquitoes need a blood meal to finish egg development. I sure hope that mammalian or avian blood isn’t fertilizing the eggs! But it is also true that male and female mosquitoes both can feed on nectar; only the females take blood meals (again, to finish egg development).

    But carbon dioxide is thought to be the major attractant for mosquitoes. Here is a reference:

    http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1603/0022-2585(2007)44%5B617:ACIFMC%5D2.0.CO%3B2

    Which brings me to other blood sucking insects. Like the famous “Vampire Moth” story:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2VQZc8PebA

    Double eeewww. I love the grad student saying that it was beginning to hurt a little.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  115. I haven’t read through all these comments, but having been alerted to the “Blackie O” thing by e-mail, I’ll say that I don’t approve of that. Why don’t we just lay off the personal insults to Michelle Obama, OK?

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  116. Fair enough, Eric. Still … my poor little girls. 😉

    nk (c788b4)

  117. I thought it was very Cameloty.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  118. The garlic business as an antiseptic works, nk. And here is a supercool article, written a lot of years ago (in part) by an undergraduate: why is spicy food so common in tropical climates?

    The original is in the Quarterly Review of Biology, but here is the summary.

    http://www.jyi.org/features/ft.php?id=443

    Because many of those spices are antimicrobial!

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  119. I thought it was very Cameloty.

    Sort of, but not really. I’m not upset about it, I just don’t need the grief. I’m very busy at work and frankly don’t have a lot of time or patience to deal with this stuff.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  120. I haven’t read through all these comments, but having been alerted to the “Blackie O” thing by e-mail, I’ll say that I don’t approve of that. Why don’t we just lay off the personal insults to Michelle Obama, OK?

    Comment by Patterico — 6/6/2009 @ 9:56 pm

    Since I’m ‘banned’ this won’t matter. But glad you finally wised up and realized this blog has your name on it and the crap you allow to fly in this place can lend its stink to you. I recall mentioning once before that Chrysler doesn’t blame Goodyear for building cars that don’t sell.

    If you’re willing to let the past be past and forgotten, I’ll submit an ‘apology’ to DRJ on the misunderstanding of a month ago. If not, best to you. I’m not keen on posters referencing me on this blog of yours without the opportunity to respond, though. Tough break on being banned by O’Reilly. (I still stop by and at least read your blog on occasion for a sick pal.) Guess what goes around comes around, eh. Then again, being banned by BO’R is an upgrade for anyone, isnt it.

    The Banned In Boston and Pattericoville DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  121. My second comment about Michelle was just to get a rise out of Tim since he’s so humorless and thin-skinned, not to cause grief for anyone here.

    If his strategy is to get Patterico to assume responsibility for all of the comments on his blog I think he should come right out and say so instead of being a weasel about it.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  122. Neither daleyrocks nor I will ever spiral it down to where it hurts this site, you, or any other guest host here, Patterico.

    nk (c788b4)

  123. The “humor” defense… How very original!

    Then there’s the claim that the things posted are not honest reflections of personal belief, but instead are chosen to “get a rise” out of someone or other.

    So who needs trolls?

    Well, daley, here’s hoping the petard didn’t find you in too tender a spot.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  124. “Well, daley, here’s hoping the petard didn’t find you in too tender a spot.”

    Tim – I believe you were the only one exhibiting tender spots here today, but that’s your M.O. here.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  125. “Then there’s the claim that the things posted are not honest reflections of personal belief, but instead are chosen to “get a rise” out of someone or other.”

    Tim – Now you’re just making stuff up. Can you point to something I said that was anything close to the above please?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  126. Hmm. A slight alteration overnight. Interesting.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  127. I think the following brief excerpts just about sum up the mindset of the guy now in the Oval Office. Someone who’s more hesistant about telling Iran what their pursuit of nuclear energy is all about than telling Israel what their housing settlements have been all about:

    Robert Kagan, Washington Post:

    President Obama likes to see himself as a pragmatist, but in foreign policy he is proving to be a supreme idealist of the Woodrow Wilson variety. If other nations have refused to cooperate with us, it is because they perceive the United States as aggressive or evil.

    …The last president who sincerely pursued this approach was Woodrow Wilson. He, too, believed that the display of evident goodwill and desire for peace, uncorrupted by the base motives of national interest or ambition, gave him the special moral authority to sway other nations. And Wilson was as beloved around the globe as Obama is today, possibly more beloved, at least for a moment. Millions took to the streets in the great cities of Europe when he crossed the Atlantic in 1918. His gifts to persuade, however, proved ephemeral, and the results of his efforts were, from his own perspective, an utter failure. Not only the nations of Europe but his own United States proved more self-interested and less amenable to moral appeals. We will see whether Barack Obama, the most Wilsonian president in a century, fares better.

    Charles Krauthammer:

    In Middle East negotiations, [Obama] told al-Arabiya, America will henceforth “start by listening, because all too often the United States starts by dictating.”

    An admirable sentiment. It applies to everyone — Iran, Russia, Cuba, Syria, even Venezuela. Except Israel. Israel is ordered to freeze all settlement activity. As Secretary of State Hillary Clinton imperiously explained the diktat: “a stop to settlements — not some settlements, not outposts, not natural-growth exceptions.”

    Mark (411533)

  128. “Hmm. A slight alteration overnight. Interesting.”

    Tim – I didn’t notice your comment earlier. Hmmm. Interesting. How about a response to my 126? Your telepathic powers are still active I assume.

    A number of questions remain unanswered by you on this thread. Interesting.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  129. #69

    I loved that book. Wish I still had a copy.

    Dave Surls (2600fa)

  130. Tim McGarry,
    And you’re going to be my moral instructor? Thanks, but I think I’ll pass.

    By your own admission you’re picking up rhetorical devices from me, so why quit there? Stop nursing old grudges from Cathy’s World days and stop picking fights here. I didn’t insult you this time; you gratuitously invoked my name in a comment to DRJ.

    You’ve never explained why you’re here at all, given your disdainful opinion about Patterico on Cathy’s World as “an extreme partisan who cares little about journalism”.

    Have you changed your mind? Or did you just follow us here to settle old scores?

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (0ea407)

  131. #131

    Bradley, I haven’t followed anyone here. Patrick Frey and I have exchanged views from time to time for many years, going back to the days when Kevin Roderick allowed comments at L.A. Observed. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that my first comments here predate yours.

    Nor do I pick fights here. Some weeks ago, when Patrick initiated a discussion of John Ziegler’s antics at USC, it was you and Dmac who came from nowhere to hijack the thread with a rehash of my exchanges with ody. In this case, the brawl followed my comment objecting to another commenter’s reference to Michelle Obama as Sasquatch. I kept the comment brief, avoided name-calling and didn’t question anyone’s motives. Nevertheless, like a jack-in-the-box, Dmac popped up again and, predictably, brought the discussion back to ody.

    In the end, it was Patrick himself who brought this thread to a natural conclusion by admonishing everyone to avoid personal insults to Michelle Obama.

    But here you are, back to Cathy’s World.

    I think any objective observer would agree that it’s not me who is obsessed with discussions at Cathy’s World from three or four years back — it’s you and your friends. My suggestion to you, Dmac, et. al.? Give it a rest.

    As to ody himself, some years ago, after learning that he was facing back surgery, I sent him a note of commiseration and included a facetious promise that I would not “knock him on his ass” until he had had time to recover. We had a pleasant and civil exchange, although I did have to sit through another Rumsfeldian lecture. This time I just shrugged it off. ody is ody.

    Finally, you continue to insist on interrogating me as to why I post here, given what I’ve written about Patrick in the past. I’ve posted a number of opinions on Patrick and this site, some negative, some positive. But I don’t have to justify my presence here to you or anyone else (with the possible exception of Patrick himself — and he has never provided any indication that my commenting here bothers him).

    So I think I’ll just continue to express my views here, as the spirit moves me and without any apologies.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  132. Tim,
    If anything needs a rest, it’s your old grudges from Cathy’s World. Not only have you carried them here, you’re building up new grudges. So yes, your conduct there is pertinent. You’re doing the same old thing here, and Cathy’s World veterans like myself are sick of it.

    It’s not a credit to your capacity for self-reflection that you don’t feel the need to apologize or rethink what kind of image you’re presenting.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R., (53570b)

  133. Bradley, i don’t believe there’s anything I can do, within reason, to satisfy your concerns. Perhaps you should take it up with Patrick.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  134. Tim,
    It’s not unreasonable to ask someone to be a little less confrontational.

    And as far as complaining to Patrick goes, I wouldn’t dream of wasting our blog proprietor’s valuable time with a personal beef. I’ve never done so, here or anywhere else. It’s childish and petty.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R., (53570b)

  135. I see where Tim has indeed brought over his infamous “teacher, he’s being mean to me!” behavior from his earlier stint. I remember that old chestnut after he was rebuked by Mike K, and Tim went right to Cathy to complain about his response – second verse, same as the first.

    Dmac (f7884d)

  136. There you go again, Dmac, In fact, I haven’t contacted Patrick about this or anything else. However, I’m sure that won’t stop you from playing your broken record over and over.

    You really need to find a new obsession. There’s a world of possibilities out there. May I suggest you take a…look?

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  137. “In the end, it was Patrick himself who brought this thread to a natural conclusion by admonishing everyone to avoid personal insults to Michelle Obama.”

    Tim – It has not concluded form my perspective because you still have not seen fit to explain or defend your comment #124. I have explained comments of my mine to which you took exception twice on this thread. If you choose not to believe those explanations, there is nothing I can do about it, but I can challenge you when you tell what I believe to be lies about them. Your past behavior here is to avoid admitting you are wrong by avoiding questions entirely. So far the pattern is holding.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  138. See #122: My second comment about Michelle was just to get a rise out of Tim…

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  139. Tim, you are starting to get annoying. Let me see if I can get you to leave daleyrocks alone and come after me:

    I don’t want to say that Michelle Obama is unattractive, but every time she walks into the West Wing the Secret Service turns off the security cameras.

    nk (c788b4)

  140. I am still curious as to why Tim felt the need to reinterpret Thomas’ words, and why the greaterest mostest smarterest President EVAH keeps having to have Gibbs reinterpret what Barcky had said.

    JD (848a9f)

  141. Yoh Momma is sooo ugley…..

    AD - RtR/OS! (29fea3)

  142. “Then there’s the claim that the things posted are not honest reflections of personal belief, but instead are chosen to “get a rise” out of someone or other.”

    Tim – The above are your words. You pointed at my words in #122. There seems to be a contradiction. Can you explain it?

    You haven’t yet. See #114.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  143. #145

    You’re not making any sense.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  144. YOU ARE ALL RACISTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    That was pretty cheap, Tim. Even for you.

    JD (dab43d)

  145. By the way, the last link was included only because of the comment mentioning certain posts at Free Republic and another conservative blog. There was no way to link to it separately. I don’t mean to imply any connection to the museum shooter, who strikes me as a breed apart.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  146. That was swell of you. However, you still tried to tar all of the people here with the actions of individuals. Essentially, you called us all racists, you just did not have the stones to actually say it.

    JD (dab43d)

  147. JD, I haven’t said or implied anything about “all the people here.”

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  148. BS.

    One of the benefits of reading Patterico’s comments section is that it helps one anticipate Republican thought-trends…

    After typing that, you provided links to actions of individuals, neither of whom are parties to this blog or the commenting community here. It was passive-aggressive BS, at its finest, and sure as Teh One will raise taxes, you are now claiming that you were not talking about “all the people here”.

    Then quit being coy and cryptic, and say who you were referring to.

    How does a link about a Secretary in the TN GOP and a volunteer in the SC GOP being douchebags have anything to do with anyone here?

    JD (dab43d)

  149. #147 Tim McGarry,

    This Republican would like to know how my “thought trends” are connected with the people or incidents you linked to. That is a comment I would have expected from some of the others here.

    Machinist (c5fc28)

  150. This Republican would like to know how my “thought trends” are connected with the people or incidents you linked to

    I do not believe they are, nor have I stated or implied such. A “Republican thought trend” only implies that some Republicans believe it. It doesn’t imply that all do.

    The S. Carolina congressman and the Tennessee party functionary are Republicans. I believe they represent a strain of thinking and feeling within the party. I don’t believe they speak for all Republicans. Do they constitute a problem for the party? Yes, one best handled by a clear repudiation of their statements, and their has been quite a bit of that.

    My post clearly suggests a perceived similarity between their remarks and actions and the posts here which use terms like “Mau Mau,” “Sasquatch” and “Blackie O.” Do I assume all posters here approve of such usage and harbor the same feelings as the commenters who utter them? Certainly not. Is such usage a problem for the blog? I think so. I also think the proprietor recognizes that, hence the admonishment to avoid personal insults to the President’s wife.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  151. It is because Republicans are racists, Machinist.

    JD (dab43d)

  152. JD, I’ve made it very clear that I was referring to the beliefs of some Republicans only. I have very clearly stated that I do not believe these beliefs are held by all Republicans.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  153. Then name them. You originally posited that the comments here led you to be able to spot future trends in Republican thought. Being a racist jackass is not a trend in Republican thought. You just had a little fun pulling out your broad brush and got called on it. I understand that. How about we start posting all of the anti-semitic drivel that has come from Democrats, and suggest that is a trend in thinking for all Dems?

    JD (dab43d)

  154. Actually, what you did was even worse, because you referenced the people here as being indicative of the racist trends in Republican thought.

    JD (dab43d)

  155. Teh Narrative. It is strong.

    JD (dab43d)

  156. Another long day for JD at Patterico’s Pontifications…

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  157. Tim McGarry,
    I’m afraid I can’t argue with JD on this point. Do you recall the things said about Rice or Steel? Were these indicative of the Democrats’ “thought trends”?

    Did Clinton’s treatment of women indicate the Democrats approval of rape?

    My first and continued impression from your remark was that the commenters here demonstrate the racism of the Republican party. Perhaps I’m a bit sensitive as I am tired of Republicans being called racist by the Democrats of all people. We are both old enough to know the truth there.

    The racist names being thrown about here are offensive and the blog host has asked the commenters to stop. While I will not defend the classless remarks of a few it seems to me you painted with a broad and sloppy brush here, Sir. This Republican commenter on this blog takes issue.

    Machinist (6218d0)

  158. That’s how it works, Machinist. It’s always different when you call a progressive on doing the same things they criticize from conservatives. The Steele and Rice and Thomas racist insults in particular were odious. And there were some Democrats who objected. But not too many.

    Rather than the “the other guy did it, too” defense, maybe folks who care about this kind of thing on both sides of the aisle should speak up. KInda like you are!

    Good post, Machinist.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  159. One more thing. The “broad brush” criticism you level is accurate. A crazy racist shoots up the Holocaust Museum, killing a guard, and we here how conservative Christians are dangerous and something should be done.

    A crazy Muslim shoots up a recruiting station, killing one soldier (in this country), and the press doesn’t want to discuss that.

    If it is worth tarring group in the one case, why not the other?

    We all know the answer to that question.

    Eric Blair (5a226d)

  160. The Left and the MSM’s absolute indifference to the murder of Pvt Long has been reprehensible. I think I see a Dem thought pattern developing here. Thanks, Tim.

    JD (a7fa4a)

  161. Run away, Tim. JD is not a person you want to dance with, although I imagine you are the highlight of his day.

    timb (a30b59)

  162. Someone crawled out from under their hatey angry rock.

    JD (a7fa4a)

  163. timb,
    Why don’t you go to Hell. Tim McGarry has been heavily provoked and I suspect he lashed out in response. That he seems to have used a grenade bothers me. That he says he didn’t disappoints me.

    You are like the guys that come through and bayonet the wounded after the battle is lost. You disgust me.

    Machinist (6218d0)

  164. Well … actually … Tim McGarry wants to set the rules for commenting on this site. timb has other issues.

    BTW, I have no intention to stop calling Obama “The Magical Mau Mau”, or his shaved “Sasquatch” a “Klingon” when I think I should.

    nk (a2b6dd)

  165. And Sarkozy speaks a foreign language!

    Comment by in_awe

    At least it isn’t Austrian. I love how our multilingual president is going to solve the world’s problems with talk.

    Tim gets pretty sensitive sometimes and leaving off the gratuitous “Republican thought trends” type stuff might reduce the flak that goes his way.

    Just a thought.

    Mike K (90939b)

  166. I’m sure of that Sir, but it does no credit to you or to the site. It’s not my call so have fun.

    Machinist (6218d0)

  167. #170 was directed to nk.

    Mike K,
    I think whatever Tim says he will be attacked.

    Machinist (6218d0)

  168. That is not true, Machinist. I am trying to give him a fair shake here, due almost entirely to my respect for you. I do not have the history with him that others do. Granted, I sometimes have an edge in my responses to him, but I have been more fair to him recently, until this racist blast.

    JD (d3f3ab)

  169. Admonitions from Mike K are always so rich in unwitting irony:

    https://patterico.com/2009/06/12/holocaust-museum-shooter-left-a-note/#comment-505976

    I have made myself very clear. We have all seen very recently a series of racist “jokes,” jibes and name-calling directed at Barack Obama or Michelle Obama. In two highly publicized cases, the authors were Republican party officials. Does this mean all Republicans hold the same beliefs? Certainly not. Does it suggest that the views of some Republicans toward the Obamas are fueled by a racial animus? Yes. That the officials involved expected concurrence or acceptance of their views suggests that the problem is larger than simply two individuals. Does it mean the Republican party is racist? No. Does it suggest that the party has a problem that it needs to deal with? Yes.

    I called it a “Republican thought trend.” I think that’s as good a description as any of a current that holds true for some Republicans. Am I saying that all Republicans think the same way? If English is your mother tongue, you should recognize that I am not.

    This site also has a problem, one that appeared before the recent public controversies. I believe that the proprietor recognizes it as such, even if other commenters are reluctant to do so.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  170. Tim McGarry,

    I don’t think it’s “as good a description as any” at all. It implies that the majority of Republicans are racists. This is not true. Just like most Democrats did not call President Bush “Chimpy”, the fact that a few Republicans might find like-minded humorists and chuckle does not mean that it represents a “Republican thought trend”.

    Why not spell out exactly what you mean about this site having a problem? Again, you seem to paint with a broad brush and I, like most of the regulars here, don’t like getting splattered. If you can’t understand that, it’s no wonder you keep drawing fire.

    Stashiu3 (ed6467)

  171. A secretary and an activist have been promoted to Republican party officials by Mr. McGarry. What is this race problem the Republican party needs to deal with?

    When in doubt, paint with a broad of a brush as possible, then claim you were not talking about everyone, only those racist ones. If you have specifics, level those charges at the indviduals. However, you choose to smear everyone, based on the recived wisdom and Teh Narrative that RethugliKKKans are racists.

    Whatevs

    JD (d3f3ab)

  172. The Republican party and this blog have a problem. You can deal with it, or not.

    Tim McGarry (9fe080)

  173. Tim, and your problem is that all you have to make yourself feel better about yourself is to call people “racist” without any basis.

    Its a slimy practice of yours, frankly, and it indicates a fundamental lack of character.

    SPQR (72771e)

  174. What is my problem with race, Tim? What is the Republican party’s problem with race? Be specific.

    JD (d3f3ab)

  175. Tim McGarry,

    I don’t need to deal with the Republican party since I’m not a Republican. What problem does this blog have and how would you “deal with it” if you had that option? It seems like you’re saying this blog has a problem with racism, so if that is not your intent, please clarify what you do mean.

    Stashiu3 (ed6467)

  176. JD,
    I said I agreed with you and I was not referring to you in my remark. I apologies if I came across that way but I think you will admit my comment is true about several people here.

    Tim,
    Why don’t the racist caricatures and jokes by Democrats reflect just as much on that party? Who is the chairman of the racist RNC? This claim of connection is an over reach. Men like Sharpton, Jackson and Byrd hold much more prominent positions in the Democratic party than any of the Republicans you mentioned. Does this mean the Democrats must own the racist, anti-Semitic views these men apologetically espouse? Let’s be fair here.

    Machinist (6218d0)

  177. Tim McGarry has amply demonstrated he is the one with the problem.

    He’s upset that we’re not intimidated by his moral hectoring.

    He wants this blog to cater to guilty liberals.

    He’s not going to get his wish.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R., (5434c8)

  178. I’ll withdraw at this point. I hope you will reconsider, Sir.

    Machinist (6218d0)

  179. Machinist – I understand what you are saying.

    As Stash could tell you, this has long been a pet peeve of mine, and I will not sit idly by and let someone drop the RACIST bomb without calling them on it. Especially since he doubled down on it in comment #176.

    RACISTS !!!eleventy1!

    JD (d3f3ab)

  180. Admonitions from Mike K are always so rich in unwitting irony:

    So Robert Byrd was not a member of the Klan ?

    The racist Senators from the south who blocked anti-lynching legislation for 50 years were not Democrats ?

    Hugo Black, appointed to the Supreme Court by Roosevelt was not a Democrat and Klan member ?

    Tim would do better with his “I’m smarter than you are” jibes if he knew more history.

    Mike K (90939b)

  181. Convenient that he does not stick around to defend his RACISTS! bomb. Actually, it is cowardly.

    JD (d3f3ab)

  182. No, he wouldn’t Mike.

    SPQR (72771e)

  183. He’s probably calling Patterico’s home phone number to complain. That’s his style.

    Mike K (90939b)

  184. BTW, guys, Tim McGarry is not one of them, but there are any other number of people on this site, in addition our hosts, that I will defer to if they tell me I’ve gone too far.

    nk (a2b6dd)

  185. I really resent it when Tim McGarry decides the GOP and this blog need counseling and drops in to lecture us about our moral failings.

    That’s my job.

    DRJ (180b67)

  186. DRJ – I resent it when it is not true, and the author makes no attempt to support their position.

    JD (cb9226)

  187. I’m kidding, JD. It’s no one’s job.

    DRJ (180b67)

  188. Au contrare, mon frare. Mr. McGarry seems to be quite willing to assume that role.

    JD (cb9226)

  189. That’s a shame, DRJ, ’cause you were welcome to the job 😉

    SPQR (72771e)


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