Republicans Ask DOJ to Investigate ACORN
[Guest post by DRJ]
Six Republicans in Congress have written a letter to Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey asking the DOJ to investigate vote fraud by ACORN.
The Representatives urge the DOJ to assist State officials in their investigations of vote fraud. They also express concern that “the recent letters and press release by the Commissioner of Social Security [Michael J. Astrue] questioning the high usage of the verification process in six States … ” will chill State efforts to investigate fraud.
Here is a link to the Social Security Commissioner’s press release but it loads slow at times. Here is another link that summarizes the press release.
— DRJ
It really doesn’t matter whether the the registrations are legitimate or not, the usual suspects will start with the “voter suppression” meme.
I’ve lived a long time and I’ve seen a lot of problems with voting in the past. If we don’t have a system of voting that is recognized as legitimate and fair, our republic is doomed.
Simple requirements for judging the legitimacy of a cast ballot are not discrimination, they are essential.
Proving who you say you are is not an unnecessary burden. States provide citizens with the ability to provide identification to secure loans, drive automobiles or obtain insurance. I see no problem with requiring the same to vote. But, I suppose, that makes me a racist.
And, I will be gladly be called a racist to assure that every vote is legitimate and counted.
ag80 (a8b720) — 10/11/2008 @ 7:22 pmCatch this YouTube before it “vanishes”
OBAMA CAUGHT SAYING ACORN AND FRIENDS WILL SHAPE HIS PRESIDENTIAL AGENDA
Heartland Democratic Presidential Forum 12/07
(forum exclusively for thousands of community organizers including Gamaliel and ACORN people)
Obama said ACORN and friends, responsible for voting fraud and the subprime crisis, are going to be shaping policy for an obama presidency
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vJcVgJhNaU
Denise (bfd6b2) — 10/11/2008 @ 7:31 pmSIX REPUBLICANS want to investigate ACORN. Well that settles it for me!!! Obama must be guilty!! Why else would Republicans want to investigate? How about bringing back Whitewater?
Interesting how in the next blog we hear how partisan the investigation of Palin is..
VietnamEraVet (543dfe) — 10/11/2008 @ 7:33 pmIf Mr. Agent Orange had any prior knowledge of ACORN’s activities, he’d know that crying partisanship is a very thin gruel indeed.
Dmac (cc81d9) — 10/11/2008 @ 7:43 pmHow about bringing back Whitewater?
Naw! We don’t have to do that.
Virtually everyone involved in Whitewater that committed a crime went to jail, received a Presidential Pardon (why would you accept one unless you were actually guilty), or both.
It’s time to go after fresh fish. And, ACORN has to some extent, already established a “pattern and practice” in this matter over the past several elections.
If we’re lucky, on this one we’ll see a RICO prosecution that will pretty much emasculate ACORN when they are found guilty.
Another Drew (2a4150) — 10/11/2008 @ 7:43 pmI have no idea if Obama or McCain are guilty of anything. As a matter of fact, I doubt that either are.
I do know that serious questions have been raised about ACORN’s activities. They should be investigated and, if true, corrected. That goes the same for any activities by groups on the other side.
It doesn’t matter if voter fraud is conducted by Democrats or Republicans or by ACORN or the KKK, it should be investigated and stopped. Every vote should be legal and counted.
ag80 (a8b720) — 10/11/2008 @ 7:43 pmPer the letter, ACORN “…admitted on October 8, 2008, to submitting fraudulent voter registrations among the 65,000 forms it submitted in Cuyahoga County, Ohio.” Maybe my googling search skill isn’t great, but I find no such admission.
re: the use of Social Security database: per the NY Times article, the problem isn’t use of the SSN database, but improper use. Contra the house republicans, violation of law is neither commendable nor to be encouraged.
jpe (5320bf) — 10/11/2008 @ 7:48 pmRICO requires intent; that ACORN makes efforts to flag bad registrations pretty much negates intent. Or: it’s strong evidence against it. They seem to be guilty of sloppy internal controls, not fraud. AFAIK – mind you, I’m no election lawyer – there’s no requirement that an org collecting registrations have any controls in place to minimize false registrations.
Should there be a law? Wouldn’t be a bad idea. But if there were, I’d imagine we’d have heard plenty of howling about it already, rather than the currently groundless accusations of illegality.
jpe (5320bf) — 10/11/2008 @ 7:58 pmJPE-
type in “October 8, 2008” and “ACORN”, hit serach, then click on news.
This and this are on the front page, as well as this entire section, all without scrolling.
Second link down has this blurb:
Foxfier (15ac79) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:01 pmRICO requires intent; that ACORN makes efforts to flag bad registrations pretty much negates intent. Or: it’s strong evidence against it. They seem to be guilty of sloppy internal controls, not fraud.
Might want to read this article before you defend their attempts; “Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy and Jive Turkey” are all registered.
Foxfier (15ac79) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:03 pm“Pattern and Practice” can be used to establish intent.
Another Drew (2a4150) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:08 pmBy jpe:
re: the use of Social Security database: per the NY Times article, the problem isn’t use of the SSN database, but improper use. Contra the house republicans, violation of law is neither commendable nor to be encouraged.
I agree. Violation of the law is is neither commendable nor to be encouraged.
Unfortunately, I don’t know if I trust the NY Times anymore on much of anything. I’m sure googling skills will prove me otherwise.
And, no, I don’t expect anyone to do my research for me. I’ll do it my myself
ag80 (a8b720) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:09 pmIts funny Republicans want to investigate this but wanted to shut down an investigation into who leaked the identity of a woman the CIA said was a secret agent working to prevent WMDs from falling into the hands of terrorists. Scooter Libby was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice in the Valorie Plame case and Bush commuted his sentence while the neo fascists here cheered.
This is yet another illustration of how Republicans are like the old Soviet Union in that they use the Justice Department to prosecute their enemies and pardon they friends.
As for ACORN I am quite sure they will either find or make up something to justify their latest attempts to revive their failing campaign of lies and bullshit.
I might have been open to questions about ACORN but I have seen too much of this selective outrage and manufactured charges to put any credence in Anything these liars claim or charge.
Conservatives ( fascists really) have cried wolf and planted false evidence against Democrats and Black people just too many times to have any credibility.
VietnamEraVet (543dfe) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:10 pmBy some guy who says he’s a Vietnam vet:
Its funny Republicans want to investigate this but wanted to shut down an investigation into who leaked the identity of a woman the CIA said was a secret agent working to prevent WMDs from falling into the hands of terrorists. Scooter Libby was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice in the Valorie Plame case and Bush commuted his sentence while the neo fascists here cheered.
Nice deflection. I believe we know who leaked Plame’s name. It’s pretty common knowledge.
ag80 (a8b720) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:16 pmComment by VietnamEraVet — 10/11/2008 @ 8:10 pm
I’ve got to think that the closest this person ever got to ‘Nam, were the stories his Mom, or Dad, told of attending the “silent vigils” at the campus quad at noon-time, back in the day.
Truly Pathetic!
Another Drew (2a4150) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:16 pmVietnamEraVet –
Foxfier (15ac79) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:17 pmYou’re being accused of vile racism.
Comment by Foxfier — 10/11/2008 @ 8:17 pm
Good link…
I was particularly struck by this…
“In fact, the only time straw men survive even for a short time is when the person creating them simply forgets the point they were trying to make.”
Too many bong hits will do that to you.
Another Drew (2a4150) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:22 pmthx, foxfier.
jpe (5320bf) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:23 pmWelcome.
Foxfier (15ac79) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:32 pmThere have been enough instances of documented voter registration fraud in numerous states and locations to make any thing ACORN is associated with suspect and illegitimate where ever it exists. Legal challenges should be made to challenge, invalidate and throw out any vote/registration this organization has filed. Any election in which these persons are allowed to participate should be subsequently invalidated, challenged legally and not counted. ACORN is demonstrably corrupt where ever it exists. If any vote/registration it has been associated with is allowed to stand then the election of November 2008 will be jutly considered to be fraudulent and should not be acknowledged or accepted. Whoever might “win” such an election, therefore, will be illegitimate and the election will, in effect, be an abrogation of the constitution. Will any subsequent action to rectify the situation therefore be considered justifiable? You could make such a case.
MikeD (7619d2) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:43 pmVEV – Could the desire to shut down the Plame related investigation of Libby have anything to do with the fact that Fitzgerald knew the identity of the actual leaker, and it wasn’t Libby, within three months of the leak and that no crime related to revelation of Plame’s name was committed by Libby? I suppose that is simply too much reality for you to accept.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:56 pmComment by MikeD — 10/11/2008 @ 8:43 pm
And, we know from reports from Chicago, that the training syllabus for their work was, if not written, at least refined by their General Counsel in Chicago, one B.H.Obama, Esq.
A fish rots from the head!
Another Drew (2a4150) — 10/11/2008 @ 8:56 pmjpe – If ACORN is actually reviewing the registration applications and flagging questionable ones before submission, shouldn’t they be able to ballpark for everyone the number of fake ones out of the 1.3 million “new voters” they registered this cycle? Based on their representations it makes sense, right?
I haven’t seen anyone ask this question or ACORN volunteer an answer.
Why aren’t Democrats joining Republicans in calling for an investigation into ACORN? Aren’t they interested in ensuring the integrity of the election process? By holding back, the Democrats make themselves look like idiots and stooges (they are stooges in this case) for ACORN. It’s not a very politically tenable position to take.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/11/2008 @ 9:03 pmThank you, Denise, for the link at #2.
And thank you, VietnamEraVet, for reminding us just how amateurish the Republicans are in emulating their heroes of the USSR. I mean, really, Putin and his fellow KGB veterans do a much better job at silencing dissent than the Republicans have been able to do.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 10/11/2008 @ 9:20 pmHere’s a good link.
And it’s important to note that in many states, ACORN or anyone else involved in registering voters is legally obliged to send in every registration, even if the name on it is Mickey Mouse. They can flag them but they can’t just throw them out.
More here as well.
Two more points, covered in the links above:
Nanker Phelge (a273a1) — 10/11/2008 @ 9:35 pmregistration fraud is not voter fraud, and in the past it’s often been ACORN itself that’s notified the authorities about fraudulent registrations that they’ve received.
Comment by daleyrocks — 10/11/2008 @ 9:03 pm
Exactly. If Obama’s hands were clean it would have been a smart move to be the one insisting an ACORN investigation. What a feather in his cap that would have been.
If his hands were indeed clean.
Dana (658c17) — 10/11/2008 @ 9:35 pmwanted to shut down an investigation into who leaked the identity of a woman the CIA said was a secret agent working to prevent WMDs from falling into the hands of terrorists
I don’t think this person is a “vet” of anything to do with the military except, perhaps, the stockade. Lies like this come from people who are not “vets” of anything legal.
Mike K (2cf494) — 10/11/2008 @ 9:38 pmAgreed Mike K.
I was undecided whether to respond purposefully to him, ridicule, completely ignore him and encourage others to do likewise, or to throw a change up of politeness, a concept modeled the other night by JD, I believe.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 10/11/2008 @ 9:49 pmNanker –
“registration fraud is not voter fraud”
registration fraud is necessarily not matured voter fraud of it is detected in time.
Fixed that for you.
“it’s often been ACORN itself that’s notified the authorities about fraudulent registrations that they’ve received.”
That’s what ACORN keeps claiming, although election authorities seem to dispute this. If ACORN’s account is correct, how many fraudulent registrations were among the 1.3 million they submitted?
Nanker – We had a commenter here named AF who used to brag about his broker the way you did at the beginning of the week. Do you know him? How about a guy named JAR who left around the same time you showed up?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/11/2008 @ 9:56 pmshould read “not necessarily” above
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/11/2008 @ 9:57 pmHere’s where Republicans betray their stated values.
ACORN’s primary mission is to create more affordable housing opportunities for poor and minority people throughout the United States.
One would think that “Compassionate Conservatives” would be on board with that idea. Affordable housing? Who would object to that?!
Well – apparently the entire contemporary conservative movement objects to it.
How can Barack Obama simultaneously be someone who’s “never accomplished anything” yet also have engineered the financial crisis and massive nationwide voter fraud on behalf of the Republican Party?
Do you guys still believe in the Tooth Fairy, too?
Metacom (b8c7e2) — 10/11/2008 @ 10:07 pmMetacom,
Congrats on discovering the big lie. You are right–ACORN and Senator Obama have indeed created more affordable housing. See how well that turned out? Nice job all around, as long as you don’t have a mortgage, house, IRA or anything.
carlitos (e833de) — 10/11/2008 @ 10:23 pmACORN’s primary mission is to create more affordable housing opportunities for poor and minority people throughout the United States.
– Through fraud and coercion?
Well – apparently the entire contemporary conservative movement objects to it.
-Objects to what, be specific:
ACORN Fraud
ACORN Coercion
Nonpartisan Affordable Housing
How can Barack Obama simultaneously be someone who’s “never accomplished anything” yet also have engineered the financial crisis and massive nationwide voter fraud on behalf of the Republican Party?
– Explain your Republican Party theory. Obama is denying any relationship with ACORN ot yhe financial crisis. If he reveals the truth of his relationship and accepts responsibility for the financial crisis, speaking for myself, O would be more than happy to give him full credit.
Next question.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/11/2008 @ 10:25 pmThe thing that’s impressed me the most about McCain has been the way he’s come out and criticized the bullshit accusations and memes currently being spread among Republicans regarding Obama. Assuming he’s sincere (and I’ve always seen him as a pretty sincere guy) it’d be a shame if the racist crap being extolled by some of his crazier supporters loses him the election.
Drop this ACORN stuff. McCain shouldn’t be associated with it. ACORN, to the Fox News crowd, symbolizes voter registration drives directed at the poor, and more particularly, minorities. For the Fox News crowd, ACORN simply means more black voters. That’s it. It scares the hell out of a small group of racist Republican voters, and so it’s caught on as a meme. The fact that a few ACORN employees were lazy, and produced fake registrations, doesn’t mean that anyone is going to actually vote under those names. It just means they wanted their bonuses. Was it an inefficient use of ACORN’s money, to register fake voters? Yeah, but it doens’t mean that anyone’s going to vote improperly. That’s the implication being pushed, and it’s simply false.
And give up the Ayers meme. All it’s doing is convincing certain uneducated swing voters that Obama is an Arab terrorist. Which may get you a few votes, but it’s losing you more when people see things like McCain having to tell his own audience that Obama isn’t an Arab, and that they don’t have to be afraid of Obama being president. What kind of leader has to calm down his supporters? It makes McCain look like he isn’t in control of his own campaign.
Phil (3b1633) — 10/11/2008 @ 11:31 pmThe majority of the “affordable housing” is rental property.
It’s fascinating that you guys actually believe that an organization that nobody ever heard of prior to this year is responsible for the worldwide financial crisis. Your capacity for self-delusion is apparently without bounds. Congrats!
I’m all for building more affordable housing. I’m also all for taking steps to help poor and minority families secure mortgages when/where they might otherwise be unable to do so.
Is stopping affordable housing initiatives now an official plank in the Republican Party’s platform?
Metacom (b8c7e2) — 10/11/2008 @ 11:35 pmExpanding on what Phil said…
If you look at the reasons given by various federal prosecutors as to why they haven’t gone after more than a handful of ACORN people, it’s because the fraud that has been committed isn’t what you think.
ACORN hires poor people to register voters in their communities. These people were being paid based on the number of registrations they process. Some of these people cheated by creating bogus registrations and therefore claiming more money than they actually earned. Some of these people did this with incredible stupidity – going through a phone book and copying names down in order, registering the names of businesses, etc. “Somebody’s paying me $0.50 for every form I get people to fill out. Let’s fill out a shitload of forms!”
I don’t think anyone has found any instance of people actually using any of these bogus registrations to vote. The fraud occurred at the registration stage – not at the voting stage. Had people been using bogus registrations to vote this would be a completely different story and we’d all be justified in being angry.
Nobody is going to their polling place, identifying themselves as “MICKEY MOUSE” and casting a vote.
I do remember reading about two women being prosecuted and convicted and receiving appx. two year sentences. It happened somewhere in the southwest – NM or NV, perhaps. Their crime was registering for dollars – not casting bogus ballots.
Metacom (b8c7e2) — 10/11/2008 @ 11:46 pm“Nanker – We had a commenter here named AF who used to brag about his broker the way you did at the beginning of the week.”
Was I bragging? I don’t think so. I was pissed, and still am.
We knew that already, didn’t we?
Nanker Phelge (a273a1) — 10/11/2008 @ 11:48 pm“Next question.”
And give up the Ayers meme.
Would you say that if Ayers were a fanatic rightwinger? Oh. Yea. You wouldn’t, would you.
And speaking of how sensitive one is or isn’t to the nature of others, Barack Obama last year said the “nappy-headed hos” comment expressed by radio personality Don Imus justified his removal and termination by CBS. Meanwhile, Obama was playing footsies with characters like Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright.
Mark (562068) — 10/11/2008 @ 11:52 pmFederal housing data reveal that the charges aren’t true….
We knew that already, didn’t we?
Uh, the do-gooder sentiment of “housing for all” sure as hell didn’t help matters either.
Mark (562068) — 10/12/2008 @ 12:07 amMetacom and Phil – a twosome of idiocy of epic proportion.
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 10/12/2008 @ 12:17 amPhil, “the blacks” are waiting for you to save them from Republicans. If you hurry you can team up with Metacom and destroy Thanksgiving together.
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 10/12/2008 @ 12:19 amSURPRISE! SURPRISE!
Number two story up on Politico right now is a “Move along, nothing to see here” piece regarding GOP claims of Acorn vote fraud.
The one and only neutral source reached for comment by Politico was a Rick Hasen, professor of election law at Loyola Law School here in LA. Professor Rick Hasen basically said:
Nothing to see here, move along.
After a bit of hard-nosed and intrepid googling, I found that-
SURPRISE!SURPRISE!
-Prof. Rick Hasen not only has a blog on Huffington Post, but has an entry put up yesterday titled:
The Purge Surge: Why the GOP Is Nuts About ACORN
The gist of which is:
Vote fraud? What’s the dizzle ma’ nizzle? or “nothing here folks, move along.”
Hasen’s piece poo-pooing vote fraud is dated evening of Oct. 10; Politico’s piece poo-pooing vote fraud which quoted Hasen is dated evening of Oct. 11.
Me, I’m just a caveman with a BA in Google and I don’t know much about journalistic standards.(I’m not even sure how to use semi-colons).
JV78 (ab3744) — 10/12/2008 @ 12:30 amBut is it common practice for a supposedly reputable news outfit like Politico to be taking the lead from far left blogs like HuffPo?
I haven’t seen any evidence that ACORN is intentionally committing fraud. I would support a law, though, that requires vote registration groups to have a set of procedures or internal controls to minimize the risk of false registrations.
And I think that if GOPers were interested in solving the problem, rather than preemptively giving themselves an excuse for McCain’s loss next month, a law like that would be pushed by the right.
It doesn’t sound like they have a system in place, which means they don’t track and tally bad registrations. But they could probably come up with a ballpark.
jpe (5320bf) — 10/12/2008 @ 7:37 amA LITTLE off-topic, but …
If you’re interested, copy-and-paste the link below for a blog on the Atlanta Journal-Constitution web site where U.S. Rep.(and Obama supporter) John Lewis (a loony lib from da ATL)compares McCain to George Wallace.
Please note the response by Obama’s spokesman, who disavows Lewis’s comments while condemning the McCain campaign for promoting “hateful” rhetoric.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/shared-blogs/ajc/politicalinsider/entries/2008/10/11/john_lewis_compares_john_mccai.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab
Bubba Maximus (456175) — 10/12/2008 @ 7:54 amSix. Six! Six? 6 out of 435! We’ll see a lot of action now! NOT. I see 429 running for cover.
twolaneflash (6c1719) — 10/12/2008 @ 8:06 amMetacom –
just because you hadn’t heard of them before this year doesn’t mean that no-one had.
Everyone-
Foxfier (15ac79) — 10/12/2008 @ 8:16 amIsn’t it amazing how different the reaction from the left is when there’s admitted fraud, as opposed to rumors of “intimidation”?
Phil – Why are you confusing Obama with an Arab terrorist? Nobody else is.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/12/2008 @ 8:34 amIt’s worth bearing in mind that this registration fraud. Actual voter fraud is another kettle of fish.
jpe (5320bf) — 10/12/2008 @ 8:36 amNanker – You didn’t answer whether you knew AF.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/12/2008 @ 8:36 am“It’s worth bearing in mind that this registration fraud. Actual voter fraud is another kettle of fish.”
jpe – Thanks for the reminder. There is no proof that left undetected that the rampant registration fraud perpetuated by ACORN would not turn into actual voting fraud.
I think any other statement is pure speculation, including the type you have been making. Why are you against fair elections?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/12/2008 @ 8:39 amThe voting fraud can be stopped if it is detected at the registration level.
If fraudulent votes are cast, its like a drop of water in a glass of water. There’s no way to undo it without a new vote.
jpm100 (b48b29) — 10/12/2008 @ 8:47 amI don’t think we disagree: there’s no evidence one way or the other. We don’t know if there’s been voter fraud. The problem that needs to be solved is how false registrations make it through the state databases.
jpe (5320bf) — 10/12/2008 @ 8:47 amAs court after court has noted, there’s virtually no evidence of actual voter fraud.
jpe (5320bf) — 10/12/2008 @ 9:13 amJPE-
Actually, it would be voter registration fraud, a subset of voter fraud; it’s also a felony.
These really, really obviously done fakes got caught; how many got through?
Foxfier (15ac79) — 10/12/2008 @ 9:25 amjpe
ACORN in many states has been deliberately turning in thousands of voter registrations the majority of them fraudulent. Polling places cannot ask for any identification when a person shows up says “I’m Es Esh at 101 Main” and they sign next to their name to vote. As long as the name on the roll, they vote.
If these fraudulent registrations go through, that thousands upon thousands of names that just need a warm body to show up and sign.
Even dead people are voting:
That is fraud. And ACORN has been priming the pump for the general election for months.
Darleen (187edc) — 10/12/2008 @ 9:33 amI understand, foxfier, but there’s little evidence that there has been fraudulent voting.
That said, there’s probably room to legislate on the topic, although that will probably require funding for the states (ACORN could flag every fraudulent registration, and it won’t matter much if the states aren’t able and required to follow up on the flagged registrations).
But voting is obviously important enough that it would be worthwhile to implement tougher controls at the state level.
jpe (5320bf) — 10/12/2008 @ 9:33 amAs court after court has noted, there’s virtually no evidence of actual voter fraud.
Speaking of courts, I hope you’re not one of those libs who believed the ruling of the Supreme Court (referring to the one at the federal level, not the one representing the state of Florida) in the matter of the 2000 election was a case of “fraud.”
And beyond examples of dishonest voter registrations or not, I’ve always found it amusing (and pathetic too) that quite a few on the left promote the idea that former convicts should have their voting rights restored as soon as possible. It kind of fosters the sense that corruption and dumbed-down integrity will flourish most heartily in a setting dominated by the left, by the Democrat Party.
Mark (f41e3c) — 10/12/2008 @ 9:37 amDrop this ACORN stuff. McCain shouldn’t be associated with it. ACORN, to the Fox News crowd, symbolizes voter registration drives directed at the poor, and more particularly, minorities. For the Fox News crowd, ACORN simply means more black voters.
ACORN has a long history of vote fraud and agitation over “affordable housing.” I have served on a planning commission and know that “affordable housing” is a nexus between developers, like Rezko, and “public interest” law firms that are funded by the developers. It used to be that the emphasis was on changing zoning laws to cram cheap projects into middle class neighborhoods. About 1995, they got into the cheap mortgage business with the encouragement of the Clinton Administration. They contributed to the present financial crisis. They weren’t the only cause but the principle of the accelerator in economics shows how powerful such an organization can be.
Obama began his career as an ACORN organizer and trainer.
Mike K (2cf494) — 10/12/2008 @ 9:58 amLet’s not forget the 7-year olds now registered to vote…and blame it on a drug-addled relative doing the registering. Hm.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10122008/news/politics/7_yr__old_gets_an_acorn_vote_133207.htm
Dana (b2ec18) — 10/12/2008 @ 10:13 amSome links for you
Black Box Voting
The Brennan Center
Since it’s obvious no one read the last one’s I don’t know why I bother. But the next time someone here links to the National Review I’ll remember not to respond to the argument but just say something along the lines of
“You mean the magizine run by the guy who started his career defending southern whites and later said that gay men should have to register with the government and have tattoos on their asses?”
Maybe it was HIV positive men. One or the other.
This isn’t about fraud, this is about helping your side win. And remember all those federal prosecutors who got canned for not doing enough on voter fraud- that is to say they could not find enough of it- they were republicans and republican appointees.
I can find more actual information about democratic corruption on liberal sites than I can on sites like this one. Democrats don’t exactly run a tight ship. People don’t hide their antagonisms very much, or well. But the moment McCain got the nomination all the bile spilled on these pages against him turned to love.
Two stories. Google the text to find the sources. But you’ve read the both before
Nanker Phelge (a273a1) — 10/12/2008 @ 10:57 amAnd no, I don’t know AF. But I hope he’s happier with his broker than I am with mine
Nanker Phelge (a273a1) — 10/12/2008 @ 10:59 amIf you hurry you can team up with Metacom and destroy Thanksgiving together.
Jack, does that mean they’re going to make “hot dissident monkey love” while they’re at it? Because I believe we’ve already established that Phil’s a Howler Monkey, so it logically follows…
Two stories. Google the text to find the sources. But you’ve read the both before
Wanker Fudge seems to not understand the cut and paste rule here – either provide real links to your sources, or put a sock in it.
Dmac (cc81d9) — 10/12/2008 @ 11:20 am“As court after court has noted, there’s virtually no evidence of actual voter fraud.”
jpe – Could you provide examples of these “court after court” findings. It’s tough to prosecute people when you can’t figure out who to prosecute, isn’t it? The last Washington governors race had indications of fraudulent voting as did the Milwaukee area last cycle. I don’t know whether Wisconsin or Washington require ID to vote. If an invalid registration is a precursor to a fradulent vote, why are Democrats against cleaning up invalid registrations or insisting on voter ID to prevent fraud at the polling place.
Is answering those questions with any degree of specificity above your pay grade?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/12/2008 @ 11:33 amdaleyrocks,
I had the same thought. If I were a betting man, I’d say Nanker whatever is AF/blah/JAR/whatever other names he used.
Patterico (202fa1) — 10/12/2008 @ 11:34 amPatterico – He just can’t quit you.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/12/2008 @ 11:36 amjpe is full of it as usual. In the Washington state court case a few years back, the court did accept that there was evidence of fraud in the voting, but did not grant the petition for a new election because of an impossible burden of proof that required proof that the fraud changed the result – which was impossible to show because of the nature of secret balloting. There was no way to show how the fraudulent votes were actually tallied.
SPQR (26be8b) — 10/12/2008 @ 11:54 amFive years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews.
The New York Times article you’ve excerpted from also included the following:
Mistakes and lapses in enforcing voting and registration rules routinely occur in elections, allowing thousands of ineligible voters to go to the polls. But the federal cases provide little evidence of widespread, organized fraud, prosecutors and election law experts said.
IOW, it’s not a case of whether mistakes in the voting process and, most particularly, in voter-registration databases, occur or not, or are common or not, but whether they’re organized or not.
Moreover, when it comes to filtering the amount of corruption or dishonesty on a large-scale, nationwide basis, it’s analogous to figuring out levels of crime throughout the US. So if you focus on crime rates in, for example, well-managed, tidy suburban districts, you’ll have one impression. If you focus on crime rates in chaotic, rundown urban areas, you’ll get a totally different impression.
There’s a phrase that “all politics is local.” That can be extended to and so are acts of dubious voting patterns.
Mark (f41e3c) — 10/12/2008 @ 12:08 pm
Drop this ACORN stuff. McCain shouldn’t be associated with it.
Yes, by all means, McCain should forget about these issues, just like with Ayers – and lose honorably. Why won’t he just do what Philhemina wishes?
Dmac (cc81d9) — 10/12/2008 @ 12:18 pmMark – There is no voting fraud in Chicago. Just ask the Aldermen after you tell them how many votes you need.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 10/12/2008 @ 12:26 pm_____________________________________
^ If Obama appeared to be a truly decent, honorable liberal, even I would have a tough time not giving him some slack. After all, as a public speaker he does have the virtue of being, as they say, charismatic. But the more I learn about him, the more I suspect the US, should too many of its people not wake up and instead remain lulled by a corrupt form of leftism, will be entering a phase as a Banana Republic.
Mark (f41e3c) — 10/12/2008 @ 1:17 pm_____________________________________
#67 SPQR:
resulting in an election where the governor was actually selected by the court rather than elected by the people.
But it’s okay if the selectee is a Democrat, as was Christine Gregoire.
(Who I thought was a pretty good SAG, but her actions during that election caused be to lose all respect for her.)
EW1(SG) (84e813) — 10/12/2008 @ 1:44 pm72. EW1:
Keyboard fraud! Somebody substituted a “b” instead of an “m” in my post!
EW1(SG) (84e813) — 10/12/2008 @ 1:47 pmAgain, when the press (or others) claims that voter fraud isn’t as much of an issue as some make it out to be mainly because the fraud in question isn’t organized, that ends up sounding like a deflection and rationalization.
However, I will say that I originally believed felons, or former felons, who had registered to vote and also affiliated themselves with the Democrat Party instead of the Republicans would be noticeably more than 2 to 1.
Mark (f41e3c) — 10/12/2008 @ 1:58 pm
Yeah, I guess I am full of it. Good catch.
jpe (5320bf) — 10/12/2008 @ 3:51 pmAnd as to that hilarious McClatchey whitewash, one should remember something; subprime mortgages, despite their hideousness, never constituted more than a single-digit percentage of the total mortgage loans in this country.
What happened is best described here.
The duplicity is even more hilarious. The McClatchey piece goes on about how Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were not the originators of subprime mortgages — which is not surprising, given that they don’t originate ANY mortgages. They buy them, bundle them into mortgage-based securities, and then sell them to other investors, using the implied guarantee of the US government insuring people against loss.
Barack Obama and his fellow Congressional Democrats demanded that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy and securitize more toxic mortgages. Bush and McCain opposed this.
North Dallas Thirty (d75e33) — 10/12/2008 @ 5:35 pmMark Belling on Friday on WISN am explained why Voter Registration Fraud by the Democrats was so important. The Democrats intend to file Absentee ballots for their candidates in the names of legitimate voters thereby denying the legitimate voter their vote and getting a fraudulent vote for Obama and the Democrats.
Second, Belling highlighted a CNN report where ACORN in Lake County, Indiana was nailed for submitting THOUSANDS of Fraudulent Registrations, but that isn’t all. It was a DEMOCRAT VOTING OFFICIAL THAT BLEW THE WHISTLE!!!!
Third, The Lake County, IN, ACORN office is run out of MILWAUKEE, WI! If ACORN is committing Massive fraud in IN at the direction of the Milwaukee office, then how much fraud is being committed in Wisconsin?? The Donkey Vote Registration officials in WI aren’t even doing their jobs.
Fourth, CNN can’t even find the MILWAUKEE ACORN as they have SKIPPED OUT LIKE A RENTER A YEAR OVER DUE ON RENT!
PCD (7fe637) — 10/12/2008 @ 6:10 pmWere you laughing when you typed this, jpe?
JD (f7900a) — 10/12/2008 @ 7:57 pmMark Steyn is great this morning.
But, if the combination of gazillions of dollars in illegal foreign donations, Acorn’s Dig-Up-The-Vote operation, a doting media that would embarrass Kim Jong-Il and the Republican nominee’s inability even to speak up on issues where he was right all along (like Fannie Mae), if all that is now unstoppable, I will be proud to have lost with Sarah Palin, who (unlike Brooks and Buckley) runs a state bigger than most European Union nations, has fought an honorable campaign, and has been responsible for such energy and enthusiasm as the ticket can muster.
Given that neither of us are likely to be in the club-car caboose with Brooks et al come January, if she’s ever in New Hampshire, I’ll be happy to thank her and buy her dinner at the state’s least worst restaurant. Which should set me back all of 12 bucks, but it’s the thought that counts.
Vote fraud is so hard to prove because it has to be prevented by policing registration. Once the vote is cast, it is anonymous, like Obama’s contributors.
Loretta Sanchez got elected in Orange County with hundreds of votes by illegal aliens after the Democrats demonized efforts by the local GOP to police the polls.
One of the most extensively documented cases of illegal voting was in California in 1996. Loretta Sanchez, a Democrat, defeated Republican incumbent Robert Dornan by 984 votes. Dornan called for an investigation of alleged illegal voting by noncitizens. According to Congressional Quarterly, a Washington, DC newspaper that focuses on developments in Congress, “Task force Chairman [U.S. Representative] Vernon J. Ehlers, R-Mich., said investigators had found concrete evidence of 748 illegal votes by noncitizens, not enough to throw Sanchez’s victory into doubt.”
Many of the illegals registered by signed up by an ACORN-like group funded by Democrats. It was headed by an LA County Supervisor’s husband.
Mike K (2cf494) — 10/12/2008 @ 8:10 pmMike K – I am going to remind you that it is racist to point that out.
JD (f7900a) — 10/12/2008 @ 8:23 pm