Are You a Joooooooooooooo????
To my readers:
It has been reported that your grandfather Felix, whom you were given your middle name for, was Jewish. Could you please tell us whether your forebears include Jews and, if so, at which point Jewish identity might have ended?
Yes, that means all of you. All of your grandfathers are Felix, OK?
If you don’t know what I’m talking about, it looks like you need to read this. These are relevant questions in this day and age.
P.S. Watch how Dana Milbank spins the controversy to make Allen seem like the bad guy.
He is sure to get the black vote since he is also African-American.
Gbear (c22f1c) — 9/21/2006 @ 3:28 amA commenter on Hugh Hewitt’s blog claims to have emailed the idiot journalist and received this response:
I’m not sure which should offend me more: (1) the fact that she thinks us Vuh-ginians (except maybe Northern Virginians like her, but they don’t count since they’re all voting for Webb anyway) are a bunch of bigoted hicks who won’t elect a Jooo (which should come as news to my openly Jewish Congressman, Eric Cantor, but that’s neither here nor there), or (2) the fact that she tried to out him as a Joo anyway, “knowing” full well how ugly (“uglily?”) voters would react in this quaint little backwater, Joo-hating commonwealth.
Xrlq (74550b) — 9/21/2006 @ 4:17 amWhat an odd way to phrase it. Perhaps better would have been: “Is there a reason why you had a noose, but not a gas chamber, in your office?”
actus (10527e) — 9/21/2006 @ 5:50 amAt last, after sixty years, the Democrats have the final solution to the “Jewish question…..” Or maybe it should be, “Are you now, or have you ever been, inside of a synagogue for any reason other than to meet a rich woman?”
Howard Veit (28df94) — 9/21/2006 @ 5:53 amXrlq, this Northern Virginian will be voting for Senator Allen this time and hopefully again in ’08 for a higher office.
Harry Arthur (b318a5) — 9/21/2006 @ 6:33 amAha, so you’re the one! Seriously, though, my crack was really aimed at Fox’s bigotry, which presumably would apply to the entire state if she didn’t live in part of it herself. It wasn’t a serious suggestion that Allen will get no support in NoVa – though in all honesty I can’t see him garnering a majority there, either. I’d also be very surprised if he was a serious contender for the Presidency in ’08, unless he accomplishes something major enough between now and then to make mi caca ancient history (or at least as ancient as “Bush was A-wall” was in ’04).
Xrlq (f52b4f) — 9/21/2006 @ 6:55 amUpdate to Comment #2 – Fox has confirmed authorship of the above comment, and remains unrepentant, claiming “My quesion to Senator Allen was a question addressing his character” – as if to suggest that the question of who in his family had been a Jew and when had they been it had a f’ing thing to do with his character.
Xrlq (f52b4f) — 9/21/2006 @ 7:15 amMaybe somebody should send Ms Fox a SS pin. I’m sure she’d never wear an American flag pin.
larry (336e87) — 9/21/2006 @ 7:20 amAdd to larry’s suggestion — maybe the rest of us should wear the Star of David — if not pins, then just sewn onto our clothes. If we ever are tempted to think it couldn’t happen here, we need to consider this event in its proper context: A reporter from a TV station in the nation’s capital has “accused” a US senator of having “Jewish blood” at a time when the left is finally out in the open with its anti-semitism.
Gbear, even if he doesn’t get the black vote, maybe he’ll get the octoroon vote — seems that the ideas behind terms like that are making a comeback, at least on the left.
TNugent (58efde) — 9/21/2006 @ 7:39 amThe behavior of the questioner in question is offensive.
That said, I found it quite odd that Allen responded the way he did. He responded poorly to a question which shouldn’t have been asked.
aphrael (e7c761) — 9/21/2006 @ 9:14 amaphrael, why was Allen’s response odd? It seemed that he was offended that a reporter would make an issue of a Jew in his family tree, not that he was defending himself against an accusation that he is Jewish. The reason behind Allen’s indignation seemed pretty obvious, but then, I’m not starting from the premise that he is a bigot. Unless Fox really was on a mission to expose “closet Jews,” then that premise is implicit in her question.
Fox doesn’t deserve a presumption of guilt of bigotry any more or less than Allen does. However, even if her purpose wasn’t subjectively anti-semitic true, the excuse that she was merely baiting the presumed bigot is a lame excuse for questioning that, on its face, recalls Germany of the 1930s. And given that many on the left are parrotting the lie that support for Israel is tantamount to divided loyalty (there seems to be nothing so offensive that the left cannot rationalize by claiming that it is done in opposition to George W. Bush), her question calls for further inquiry — but of her, not of Allen.
TNugent (58efde) — 9/21/2006 @ 9:41 amTNugent: according to the linked article, Allen responded by claiming that the reporter was “making aspersions.”
Now, I agree that the question should never have been asked, and I completely agree with the part of Allen’s reported response in which he suggested that reporters should “ask questions about issues that really matter to people here in Virginia.”
But it’s really hard to understand how he could argue that the question was “making aspersions” unless he thought that calling someone a Jew was making aspersions.
That said, I think Fox’s sin was greater, here; there’s no excuse for asking that question in that manner.
As for the question of divided loyalty: I think it’s a legitimate question with respect to any politician who holds dual citizenship, regardless of what country their dual citizenship is with. However, the key here is not their political position, but the fact that by maintaining dual citizenship they are trying to claim loyalty to two seperate countries.
aphrael (e7c761) — 9/21/2006 @ 10:32 amShorter Patterico:
Calling Senator Allen out on his bizarre racism against an ethnic group to which he is related is racist.
Kimmitt (80218d) — 9/21/2006 @ 11:34 amKimmitt: you don’t think it’s bizarre for a reporter to ask a political candidate if he has Jewish ancestry?
I mean, isn’t this the sort of thing which just shouldn’t be asked at all? What earthly difference does it make?
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 9/21/2006 @ 11:55 amKimmitt, what gives you the idea Allen is racist against Jews? Did you just make that up?
Xrlq (f52b4f) — 9/21/2006 @ 12:05 pmBecause he lied about it.
We’ve already established that he’s a racist who hangs with racists and anti-Semites. There’s a lot of weirdness here, from start to finish, and I think it’s the press’s job to help us figure out if the guy is a nutbar or just hangs with nutbars.
Kimmitt (80218d) — 9/21/2006 @ 12:14 pmTranslated: Allen honored his mother’s request to keep mum about her past, therefore, Allen is a racist. And “we” haven’t “established” jack about Allen being a racist, let alone an anti-Semite.
Xrlq (f52b4f) — 9/21/2006 @ 12:30 pmAdded to #1 – Ones Jewishness never ends,as long as the mohel makes the right insicision.
Gbear (c22f1c) — 9/21/2006 @ 1:05 pmShorter Xrlq:
You say macaca, I say mohawka.
Kimmitt (80218d) — 9/21/2006 @ 1:07 pmKimmitt, neither term is a remotely anti-Semitic, but thank you for playing.
Xrlq (f52b4f) — 9/21/2006 @ 2:22 pmwhether or not allen is a jew seems to have little bearing on the merits of his candidacy.
assistant devil's advocate (4fd7b7) — 9/21/2006 @ 2:51 pmwhether or not he is denying his jewish heritage for political gain is more relevant.
it was an odd question, but not a bad question. i will tell anyone who asks that i am a pagan. my jewish friends have no problem acknowledging their chosen peoplehood. senator allen’s response was self-revelatory, retroactively legitimizing the question. he blew it.
first, he equated a suggestion of judaism with “making aspersions”. then he exhibited complete flusterment and loss of self-control. this is now part of the record upon which virginians must judge.
aphrael, Allen’s use of the words “making aspersions” clearly referred to the implication, intended by Fox, that Allen, by not coming out of the closet and admitting the Jew in his family tree, was somehow committing the sin of cover-up. One need not subscribe to that view in order to recognize it when others reveal it as their own.
The divided loyalty slur doesn’t have anything to do with dual citizenship — rather, it’s anti-semitic innuendo, the implication of which is that Jews aren’t really as loyal as other Americans because whether or not they in fact are Israeli as well as American citizens, their loyalty to the US will always be subject to their loyalty to Israel. These days, it comes from Pat Buchanan and skinhead types to his right, and and from the left, including some of those who claim to be “mainstream.”
TNugent (6128b4) — 9/21/2006 @ 3:11 pmADA, see my comment to aphrael. Allen’s remarks weren’t that of someone who was flustered. They were appropriate, even if they weren’t the “best” possible response. “Aspersion” doesn’t fit an “accusation” of Jewish ancestry — certainly not now, and it probably didn’t even at a time when both anti-semitism and belief in eugenics were widely held by polite society. Its use is entirely appropriate by Allen in his justifiably indignant response to slanderous innuendo about his character — that he is dishonest for not disclosing his mother’s background.
TNugent (6128b4) — 9/21/2006 @ 3:21 pmI think y’all have missed it. The idea wasn’t to somehow “out” Senator Allen as a secret Jew to keep “a bunch of bigoted hicks” from voting for him, but to try and keep a few of our liberal Democratic friends from voting for him!
That’s where the anti-Semitism in this country really resides.
You’ve got to remember: the Old Dominion is home to Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University (Lynchburg) and Pat Robertson’s Christian Broadcasting Network (Virginia Beach), and both of those fine gentlemen have long been telling Americans to be proud of our “Judeo-Christian heritage.” The conservatives, including the religious conservatives, simply don’t have problems with Jewish ancestry any more.
And it might also be noted that that “bunch of bigoted hicks” were the same ones who elected the first (and thus far only) black candidate to be governor since Reconstruction; I voted for Doug Wilder myself!
Dana (1d5902) — 9/21/2006 @ 3:27 pmThanks, Dana. We’ve also had as many black Chief Justices as Texas, which is one more than any other state I’m aware of. And my Congressman, Eric Cantor, is openly Jewish.
That said, we were on the wrong end of the perfectly named Loving v. Virginia. Gotta take the good with the bad, I s’pose.
Xrlq (6995b7) — 9/21/2006 @ 3:42 pmTNugent — I have not made the divided loyalty slur, nor do I know people who have, nor have I seen it much, so I am unable to discuss what is meant by it. However, I do think that a “dual loyalty” question to those who have dual citizenship is legitimate.
I’m not sure I agree with your reasoning about Allen’s use of the term “aspersion”.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 9/21/2006 @ 3:57 pmADA: I find the entire notion that someone running for public office would be interrogated about either his religion or his ethnicity is offensive.
Neither of them should matter. Full stop.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 9/21/2006 @ 3:57 pmAnd those are the only possible reasons he could have been upset. Remember, if Dana Milbank can’t conceive of it, it’s not possible.
Sheesh.
jinnmabe (cc24db) — 9/21/2006 @ 4:17 pmwhether or not he is denying his jewish heritage for political gain is more relevant.
it was an odd question, but not a bad question. i will tell anyone who asks that i am a pagan.
Comment by assistant devil’s advocate — 9/21/2006 @ 2:51 pm
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Actually, it’s nobody’s business what religion or ancestry Senator Allen’s relatives are.
But it certainly is interesting that ‘assistant devil’s advocate’ believes all religious groups should be prohibited from meeting at a library, but on the other hand, a Senator must explain away the religion of his ancestors.
Desert Rat (d8da01) — 9/21/2006 @ 4:21 pmI’m a JOOOOOOOOOOOOOO… Whether by birth or by admiration, I identify with a proud religion that bequeathed much on our western civilization.
Surely our fellow citizens will see through this sniveling, divisiveness and religious bigotry. Are there any adults in the press or are they all fixated at sophmore in high school gossipy bs?
gogipper (e07f43) — 9/21/2006 @ 6:50 pm@desert rat:
assistant devil's advocate (400cfd) — 9/22/2006 @ 9:08 amthank you for exhibiting, once again, what a stone liar you are. you mischaracterized my position on religious groups meeting in a library. in comment 54 on that thread, i agreed with patterico that it was viewpoint discrimination and supported the right of religious groups to be treated neutrally compared to the treatment of secular groups.
@the rest of you:
check out today’s l.a. times article on george allen “quicksilver in senator’s mirror”. the guy’s toast, me hearties (oh, piratespeak day is over). in terms of personal culture and identity, he’s an utter fraud, a shell dressed up to gull the rube voters.
the reporter’s question to him about jewish ancestry looks absolutely legitimate now. allen was regarded as a presidential contender for 2008, and i like to know a little something about where prospective leaders come from. they are more than just boxes of cereal. having the story and the picture match is an aspect of something called “integrity”. desert rat, i suggest that you look up “integrity” in the dictionary right now!
the part in the times article about his mother swearing him to secrecy and him puddling up with wolf blitzer – comedy gold. this is an order of magnitude better than the chortle occasioned by madeleine albright’s sudden discovery of her own background. there was some stuff in that story we’ll probably never hear about.
We’ve already established that he’s a racist who hangs with racists and anti-Semites.
horse hockey!
State Senator Lambert who knows Senator Allen personally and has worked with him as both governor of VA and US Senator (neither of which I would guess you can claim) seems to disagree:
By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 13, 2006; Page B05
RICHMOND, Sept. 12 — A senior Democratic state lawmaker endorsed Republican Sen. George Allen’s bid for reelection Tuesday, after having earlier criticized Democrat James Webb’s position on affirmative action.
State Sen. Benjamin J. Lambert III (Richmond), who is black, praised Allen in a letter on his senate stationery released yesterday by the Allen campaign.
“Because we have worked well together over the years on many issues, and especially because you have delivered on your promises to support Virginia’s Historically Black Colleges and Universities, I am pleased to support you in your re-election to the U.S. Senate,” Lambert wrote. “I hope to be working with you in Washington long after November to continue fighting on behalf of all educational institutions for higher education.”
Harry Arthur (b318a5) — 9/22/2006 @ 5:44 pmI have no idea if I have any Jewish ancestors. If I do I should hope they were forthright and honest people, fine exemplars of their ethnicity and faith. If not, that’s their problem.
Was I ever a Jew in any past life? A few. Got myself killed for being an asshat in one, but other than that I kept my nose out of trouble. Since I haven’t been Jewish since about the third century, I rather doubt I’d qualify as Jewish in this life.
Have you any Jewish ancestors, I hope they were good upstanding people you can be proud of. If not, keep in mind that, as I understand it, being a creep is frowned upon in the Jewish tradition.
Alan Kellogg (4a196c) — 9/22/2006 @ 8:22 pmOh, sorry, ‘assistant devil’s advocate,’ in that thread, I was actually reading another angry lefty’s comment—NOT yours.
Indeed, it was my error, and I stand corrected.
But I must admit, it was an ‘easy’ confusion, since you’ve made so many disparaging remarks directed at Christians & Jews in various threads in the past.
Not so ironically, just look at how animated you turned out to be by the fact that “Hey, everybody, George Allen has Jooooo-ish ancestry !”
Desert Rat (ee9fe2) — 9/22/2006 @ 9:08 pm@desert rat:
assistant devil's advocate (bd2929) — 9/23/2006 @ 10:06 amif i recall correctly, you’re the same fellow who falsely accused me of using sockpuppets. now you can apologize for that.
you are still mischaracterizing my positions. it isn’t “hey, everybody, george allen has jooooo-ish ancestry!” it’s more like “hey, everybody, george allen shamefully and irrationally repressed and denied his jewish ancestry because it was inconsistent with the faux-southern persona he’s affected since his high school years in that bastion of the confederacy, palos verdes, california, and when an interviewer pushed his button just right, he disintegrated!”
i am not a “lefty”. i am a pagan libertarian. i have never made disparaging remarks about jews (as opposed to israel). christians and muslims are another story, it is the aggressive, proselytizing religions that are dangerous cults because they seek to regulate my life as well as their own. nevertheless, the constitution as i see it compels us to make the meeting room at the library available to christians on the same basis as it is available to chess players and scrapbookers. no wine in there (that’s a viewpoint-neutral regulation) but any pastor worth his salt can consecrate a box of graham crackers and a half-gallon of chocolate milk when circumstances require.
ADA, it’s more like “hey, everybody, george allen shamefully and irrationally repressed and denied his jewish ancestry because it was inconsistent with the faux-southern persona he’s affected since his high school years in that bastion of the confederacy, palos verdes, california, and when an interviewer pushed his button just right, he disintegrated!”
Maybe, maybe not. I think you’re assuming that you can read George Allen’s mind, which of course makes you far more perceptive than a mere pagan libertarian. George Allen has served as Virginia’s governor and senator for long enough to make informed judgements on his performance and suitability for continuing in office without resorting to ad hominem mind reading. If upon reflection of his service in office, you don’t feel that he has done an adequate job, then fine, make that point and back it up with facts and arguments. It seems to me that would be the civil and fair way to argue. Both he and his adversary, Mr. Webb have said and written things that upon reflection they probably wish they had kept to themselves.
My broader point is my disagreement with your characterization of evangelical Christians. As a Christian libertarian myself you might consider me to be too agressive in defending my faith when challenged but I don’t recall ever either trying to force a belief on someone who clearly wasn’t interested in such a discussion, nor would I do so even if I had the power to do so. I do, however, feel that it’s entirely fair to argue any number of issues from a Christian perspective, or not, depending on the issue and depending on the point being made by the person with whom I’m discussing some point.
To be entirely fair, you indicate that you are a pagan; fine, that’s your choice here in America, yet I see that you’ve made an occasional religious comment or two in a fairly aggressive tone yourself. I don’t feel particularly perturbed by that. I can’t help but wonder why you’re so sensitive about Christian viewpoints.
I’m left wondering whether perhaps you’ve had a bad experience with an evangelical Christian or two which has helped form your dismissive opionion of the rest of us. If that’s the case, I’m truly sorry for that, but to suggest that somehow Christians are aggressive proselytizers in the same manner as some of these extreme Muslims seems odd to me, until, that is, we start blowing ourselves up, cutting off heads and flying large airplanes into large buildings, at which time I will be more than happy to agree with your assessment.
Respectfully
Harry Arthur (b318a5) — 9/23/2006 @ 6:35 pm