Patterico's Pontifications

6/25/2021

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:12 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Hello and happy (almost) weekend! I hope at least one of you is soaking up the sun on a gorgeous beach somewhere while you read a juicy novel and are lulled by the rhythmic rolling crash of waves so I can live vicariously through you.

Here are a few news items to chew over. As usual, feel free to add what you think readers might be interested in, and please remember to include a link.

First news item

Sentenced:

A Minnesota judge sentenced former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin to 22 1/2 years in prison Friday for the murder of George Floyd.

Judge Peter Cahill wrote that part of the mission of the Minneapolis Police Department is to give citizens “voice and respect.”

“Mr. Chauvin, rather than pursuing the MPD mission, treated Mr. Floyd without respect and denied him the dignity owed to all human beings and which he certainly would have extended to a friend or neighbor. In the Court’s view, 270 months, which amounts to an additional ten years over the presumptive 150-month sentence, is the appropriate sentence.”

Cahill’s entire sentencing order and memorandum for Chauvin at the link.

Related: God bless the family that is “forever broken”.

Second news item

Kamala Harris at border facility:

Vice President Kamala Harris visited a border patrol facility near the U.S.-Mexico border on Friday and urged a focus on children and practical solutions to migration, in a trip meant to blunt Republican criticism of White House immigration policies.

The visit – her first since becoming vice president five months ago – came amid a rise in migrants caught crossing the border, which has sparked outrage from Republicans who favor the stricter immigration policies implemented by former President Donald Trump.

President Joe Biden, a Democrat, tasked Harris with spearheading his administration’s handling of the broader issue of people fleeing Central American countries for the United States. She visited Guatemala and Mexico earlier this month.

“This issue cannot be reduced to a political issue. We’re talking about children, we’re talking about families, we’re talking about suffering. And our approach has to be thoughtful and effective,” Harris said at the conclusion of her short trip.

Related: Biden administration working to reverse deportation orders of veterans:

On the campaign trail, President Biden had blasted his predecessor for deporting veterans, calling it an “outrage” and promising to create a process in his first 100 days for them to return to the United States. He has since expanded that review to include their family members…

The Department of Homeland Security “recognizes the profound sacrifice that our military families make on behalf of our nation, ”spokeswoman Marsha Espinosa said in a statement.

“The Department is committed to bringing back military family members who were unjustly deported,” she said. “Additional steps will be taken to make sure that military families’ path to naturalization is easy.”

Veterans advocates said they have heard of few deported military family members or veterans returning to the United States…

“President Biden made all these promises,” said Margaret Stock, an immigration lawyer and retired Army officer who testified about the issue before a Senate subcommittee on Wednesday. “I’ve hardly seen anybody brought back.”

Nobody knows how many veterans and military family members have been deported from the United States. The practice has occurred for decades, including when Biden was vice president. Veterans advocates estimate that hundreds of veterans have been deported over the years and perhaps thousands of their relatives.

Third news item

Prosecutors weighing criminal charges against the Trump Organization:

Manhattan prosecutors have warned former President Trump’s lawyers that they’re now weighing criminal charges against the Trump Organization, The New York Times reports. The charges against Trump’s family business and Allen Weisselberg, its longtime chief financial officer, could be unveiled by next week if District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr.’s office decides to move forward after its three-year criminal tax investigation, according to the Times. Much of the probe has focused directly on Weisselberg, including his personal taxes and whether he—as well as other Trump Org employees—received benefits that weren’t taxed properly. Trump’s lawyers reportedly met with prosecutors on Thursday as part of an effort to convince them to ditch any potential charges. It remains unclear whether Trump himself will be charged.

Fourth news item

Uh-oh:

Progressive Democrats’ concerns that their more centrist colleagues won’t support President Joe Biden’s larger spending and tax agenda are starting to bear out.

Oregon Rep. Kurt Schrader, a member of the fiscally conscious Blue Dog Coalition, said in an interview that he’s planning to vote against a budget resolution that would include reconciliation instructions for trillions of dollars in additional spending. Another moderate House Democrat, who requested anonymity to speak freely about a position that would upset party leaders, said the same.

With those two expected “no” votes, Speaker Nancy Pelosi doesn’t have much more room to maneuver on that first step toward passing a big spending bill, let alone the reconciliation legislation itself that would contain all the details.

She can only lose two more Democratic votes and still adopt the budget resolution in her narrowly divided 220-211 chamber, since no Republicans are likely to vote for it, as budget resolutions are designed to be partisan wish lists.

The budget resolution is needed to begin the reconciliation process, which Democrats can use to get around a Senate filibuster and pass a partisan spending and tax bill without Republican support. But it requires their party to remain fully united in the Senate, given the chamber’s 50-50 split and Vice President Kamala Harris’ ability to break a tie, and mostly united in the House where their narrow majority can only spare four Democratic votes.

Related:

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) on Friday poured cold water on a $579 billion bipartisan infrastructure deal struck by the White House and senators of both parties a day earlier, predicting it would not pass Congress after President Biden linked it to a separate multitrillion-dollar reconciliation package.

“I think my members need a chiropractor ‘cause they got whiplash after watching the president yesterday say there was a deal and say there was no deal, say: ‘You can have a deal on the trillion dollars on infrastructure, but you’ve got to vote for $5 trillion at the same time too, and you’ve got to raise taxes on everybody, and you’ve got to have a Green New Deal,’” McCarthy told reporters at his weekly news conference.

“I don’t think that’s going to work. I don’t think that’s going to pass. I think they killed any opportunity. I think it was disingenuous in every shape and form.”

Fifth news item

DOJ and Georgia tangle:

The Department of Justice is suing Georgia over its sweeping election law recently passed by Republicans, alleging it violates the federal Voting Rights Act by seeking to disenfranchise Black voters.

“Our complaint alleges that recent changes to Georgia’s election laws were enacted with the purpose of denying or abridging the right of Black Georgians to vote on account of their race or color, in violation of Section Two of the Voting Rights Act,” Attorney General Merrick Garland said on Friday.

Sixth news item

Fuck him:

Pakistan’s prime minister, Imran Khan, is facing backlash after he blamed victims of rape for wearing “very few clothes”. The former cricket captain was questioned by the Axios journalist Jonathan Swan about the ongoing “rape epidemic” in Pakistan and responded by saying: “If a woman is wearing very few clothes it will have an impact on the man unless they are robots. It’s common sense.”

Just how terrifying must it be to be a woman in Pakistan when the Prime Minister of the country has essentially told men “you can’t help it” if they rape a woman, and has told victims of rape “it’s your fault”. What a fucking monster. This has to strike fear into the heart of every woman. But hey, validating the rapist and punishing the victim is what rape apologists do. Oh, and exactly which women in [checks notes] Pakistan are wearing “very few clothes” anyway?? Because you can do a whole of googling, and “very few clothes” on women is simply not a thing.

Seventh news item

Mumford and Sons lose a gracious banjo player. READ THE WHOLE THING:

At the beginning of March I tweeted to American journalist Andy Ngo, author of the New York Times Bestseller, Unmasked. “Congratulations @MrAndyNgo. Finally had the time to read your important book. You’re a brave man”. Posting about books had been a theme of my social-media throughout the pandemic. I believed this tweet to be as innocuous as the others. How wrong I turned out to be.

Over the course of 24 hours it was trending with tens of thousands of angry retweets and comments. I failed to foresee that my commenting on a book critical of the Far-Left could be interpreted as approval of the equally abhorrent Far-Right.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Thirteen members of my family were murdered in the concentration camps of the Holocaust. My Grandma, unlike her cousins, aunts and uncles, survived. She and I were close. My family knows the evils of fascism painfully well. To say the least. To call me “fascist” was ludicrous beyond belief.

For me to speak about what I’ve learnt to be such a controversial issue will inevitably bring my bandmates more trouble. My love, loyalty and accountability to them cannot permit that. I could remain and continue to self-censor but it will erode my sense of integrity. Gnaw my conscience. I’ve already felt that beginning.

The only way forward for me is to leave the band. I hope in distancing myself from them I am able to speak my mind without them suffering the consequences. I leave with love in my heart and I wish those three boys nothing but the best. I have no doubt that their stars will shine long into the future. I will continue my work with Hong Kong Link Up and I look forward to new creative projects as well as speaking and writing on a variety of issues, challenging as they may be.

MISCELLANEOUS

I dont’ know who this guy is but what he says sears my heart because I am one of those “who can’t”:

What $700,000 will get you in Los Angeles:

Untitled

Summer in bloom:

flowers

Have a lovely weekend.

–Dana

309 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Happy Friday!

    Dana (fd537d)

  2. Que mala

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  3. David Mamet identifies the greatest gag of them all. Why am I always the last to find out?

    felipe (484255)

  4. Here is something, possibly familiar, worth listening to while you read that Mamet piece.

    felipe (484255)

  5. Additional news for the West Coast – record high temperatures, anticipated to be 106 near Seattle and 115 near Portland. Fortunately there’s various water bodies one can escape to, rivers, lakes and ocean.

    Victor (9ebafe)

  6. Well, that was three minutes out of my life that I will never get back. Thanks, felipe!

    nk (1d9030)

  7. “This issue cannot be reduced to a political issue. We’re talking about children, we’re talking about families, we’re talking about suffering. And our approach has to be thoughtful and effective,” Harris said at the conclusion of her short trip.

    Reading between the lines, she’s telling loyal Democrat voters not to expect the surge at the border to get any better, even if they get their amnesty bill passed, because the Administration lacks the will to send families home once they get ten toes into the United States.

    And with respect to the veterans who have been deported, I sure would like more details about exactly who they were and what they did. If you’re talking about someone who served honorably in a combat role and was deported because they got into a drunken bar fight when someone insulted a lady’s honor, then I’m all for undoing that deportation and welcoming them back. But I have a sneaky suspicion in many cases we’re talking about people who never served overseas and who got in trouble for beating up their girlfriend or menacing someone with a weapon or committing some sort of felony fraud. Those people are not welcome back, as far as I am concerned.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  8. Related: God bless the family that is “forever broken”.

    $27 million can buy a lot of glue. I’ve got no brief for Chauvin, he was a landmine on a jogging path, but let’s not kid ourselves that George Floyd was any kind of model family man or model citizen.

    Except maybe in a Mamet movie.

    nk (1d9030)

  9. So the ODNI does a Friday afternoon drop of their UAP report. Bland and broad on paper, but if you read between the lines, there are some interesting tidbits there. Glad to read that they are formalizing a report process and increasing its ability to analyze data, including historical data.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  10. I’m kind of surprised at the Chauvin sentence, by the way. In the last few years we’ve seen the following sentences handed down on police officers:

    * 10 years to the Dallas officer who entered into the wrong apartment, thought that the innocent black resident was a burglar, and shot him to death.

    * 12.5 years to the Minnesota officer who was called into a residential neighborhood by an innocent middle-aged white woman and shot her to death allegedly mistaking her for the perpetrator he and his partner were looking for.

    * 22.5 years to the Minneapolis officer who attempted to arrest a man who was passing counterfeit bills, was likely high on fentanyl, and was resisting arrest, for restraining him in a manner in which he had been trained (though had since been brought into question) which either suffocated the victim or perhaps exacerbated a previous heart issue from years of drug abuse.

    So the moral of the story appears to be that if you are a cop and kill someone, better hope that you were being stupid and reckless to a completely innocent person rather than making a perhaps controversial and callous attempt to detain someone who was clearly breaking the law.

    I’ve thought from the beginning that Chauvin will fare better on appeal, away from the circus of a Minneapolis courtroom on riot watch, and removed from a judge and jury who live in fear that the “wrong” verdict might incite another long riot. I’ll bet that in the end part of Chauvin’s sentence is overturned and he ends up serving closer to ten years, and I think that would be entirely appropriate.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  11. I agree, JVW. That trial was as farcical as O.J. Simpson’s but in the bearded Spock universe.

    nk (1d9030)

  12. ” restraining him in a manner in which he had been trained”

    Kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes was how he was trained?

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  13. Kneeling on his neck for 8 minutes was how he was trained?

    Time flies when you are trying to restrain a 6’7″ 260 lb. tweaker.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  14. I think special prayers should be said this weekend for those who have died or are missing in the Surfside FL building collapse. The final death toll will be horrific.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  15. “Time flies when you are trying to restrain a 6’7″ 260 lb. tweaker.”

    You know there’s a video, right?

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  16. Time flies when you are trying to restrain a 6’7″ 260 lb. tweaker.

    That was already handcuffed, that you had 3 other people helping you, that he performed a drug test on to know he was a tweaker…again, after he was already restrained. Good lord.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  17. Chauvin had his knee on Floyd’s neck for a minute and a half after he lost consciousness.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  18. Dana! What?! No highlighting of the government UFO Report?!?!

    UFO report: U.S. intelligence community releases long-awaited UFO Report

    http://www.cnn.com/2021/06/25/politics/

    Your tax dollars at work[or is it play?]

    They know; we don’t– because ‘the truth is out there.’ Information is power. How does it feel to be ‘powerless’?!

    “Move along. Nothing to see here!” – Frank Drebin [Leslie Nielsen] ‘The Naked Gun: From the Files of Police Squad!’ 1988

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  19. Haley praises Trump in Iowa speech laced with 2024 intrigue
    Former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley reaffirmed her support for former President Donald Trump in a speech Thursday night, just months after flaying him for his role in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot and predicting that his political career was finished.

    The potential 2024 presidential candidate lavished praise on Trump during an evening appearance before the Iowa Republican Party’s Lincoln Dinner, a major party gathering in the all-important, first-in-the-nation caucus state.
    ……..
    The remarks represent a break for the former Trump cabinet member, who has vacillated in her approach toward Trump as she tests the presidential waters following his defeat. The early struggle to calibrate her position on Trump has penned Haley in between those in the GOP who are eager to move on from Trump and those who want to stick by him.
    ……..
    During the speech, Haley embraced the cultural issues currently animating the conservative base. She railed against teaching in schools that systemic racism has been ingrained in society, accused Democrats of “strong-arm[ing] big tech, big business, and big government into silencing anyone who doesn’t toe the liberal line” and slammed the opposing party for supporting “riots and lawlessness.”

    Haley also offered a preview of how she may distinguish herself in a 2024 presidential contest: as a Republican with a diverse background. The former ambassador called herself “the proud daughter of Indian immigrants” and said that growing up she was “a brown girl in a black-and-white world.”

    “Take it from me, the first female and minority governor of South Carolina,” Haley said. “I said it last year at the Republican national convention, and I will keep on saying it: America is not a racist country. It’s just the opposite. America has done more to ensure equal justice and opportunity than any other country in history.”
    ……..
    A couple of points: Apparently Darling Nikki hasn’t noticed the big tech/big business criticism coming from Trump, Hawley, etc. And her claim of “being a brown girl in a black and white world” sounds like an appeal not based on the content her character but more on the color of her skin. Then again with her back and forth views of Trump, I guess we have seen her character.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  20. https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/06/25/brave-emotional-girl-from-abusive-home-challenges-school-board-to-define-how-shes-a-case-of-white-privilege-1093908/?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation

    Hatred is being taught in schools everywhere and they give it many different names, but it all is under the same guise… to tear the nation apart.

    God bless this young lady.

    NJRob (01231a)

  21. Pakistan’s prime minister, Imran Khan, is facing backlash after he blamed victims of rape for wearing “very few clothes”. The former cricket captain was questioned by the Axios journalist Jonathan Swan about the ongoing “rape epidemic” in Pakistan and responded by saying: “If a woman is wearing very few clothes it will have an impact on the man unless they are robots. It’s common sense.”

    Hid OBL, has nukes, plays cricket.

    Bit of a sticky wicket, wot?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  22. A couple of points: Apparently Darling Nikki hasn’t noticed the big tech/big business criticism coming from Trump, Hawley, etc.

    Heaven forbid she stands to the side in a pantssuit and nods approvingly. Did you know she’s a woman who wears dresses?

    And her claim of “being a brown girl in a black and white world” sounds like an appeal not based on the content her character but more on the color of her skin.

    As we’ve seen, it’s a proven pitch that can land a caramel-colored ass in the VP spot at a minimum.

    Then again with her back and forth views of Trump, I guess we have seen her character.

    Which is infinitely better that any ideological conservative from the pst– and especially Tedtoo’s.

    If Trump picks her for VP, they’ll win. If she runs against Kamala, she’ll win. She’s prettier– the right age and gender — and a woman, like Thatcher, unafraid to wear a dress.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  23. What Ted Cruz considers important.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  24. Chauvin had his knee on Floyd’s neck for a minute and a half after he lost consciousness.

    You’re carrying on as if I had declared Chauvin to be innocent, when I specifically said that a 10-year sentence (i.e., tossing out the ridiculous murder conviction) was appropriate. So please spare me your contrived outrage and exasperation.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  25. @23. What Ted Cruz considers important:

    Dr. Seuss or Winnie The Pooh?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  26. And by the way, Colonel Klink, what makes you so sure that Chauvin and the other cops didn’t suspect that Floyd was under the influence? When they first approached him he immediately started with the “I can’t breathe” routine — apparently even before any officers had begun to tussle with him — and then he ends up throwing a fit about being put in the back of the squad car and starts whimpering for his mother. Yeah, if I’m a cop I’m going to start to suspect that this guy is probably in an altered mental state thanks to chemicals and I would be very wary of him doing something stupid and rash and therefore do my utmost to keep him restrained, even if prolonged kneeling on his neck was excessive.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  27. Related: God bless the family that is “forever broken”.

    $27 million can buy a lot of glue. I’ve got no brief for Chauvin, he was a landmine on a jogging path, but let’s not kid ourselves that George Floyd was any kind of model family man or model citizen.

    Except maybe in a Mamet movie.

    nk (1d9030) — 6/25/2021 @ 6:04 pm

    Look, regardless of the life he lead, he left behind a mom and siblings. Chauvin did something horrific, and that has impacted the family’s lives forever. I don’t know what it feels like to lose a son, but I don’t imagine any amount of money would be able to plug the deep, dark hole of despair in my heart.

    Dana (fd537d)

  28. @24. Agree. The ‘murder’ conviction seems absurd. Even 10 years seems harsh. Floyd was a no angel.. until now.
    _____

    When the black Kapitol Keystone Kop who shot an killed unarmed veteran Ashli Babbitt ever goes to the pokie, belief in justice will be restored. How do we know the kopper was black you may ask?

    Prove it wrong. Release the identity, Royalists. What’s to hide.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  29. “You’re carrying on as if I had declared Chauvin to be innocent”

    I’m carrying on as if you claimed Chauvin was following training even if obsolete (he wasn’t), and that Floyd was resisting the entire time (he wasn’t).

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  30. Second degree murder under Minnesota law is drive-by shootings or when the shylock’s leg-breaker hits the welsher too hard or one time too many. I’ll be curious to see how the appeals court rules when the defendant is justified in the initial use of force as the police were in this case.

    Third degree murder is right on the money, as far as I’m concerned. Chauvin did not care whether Floyd lived or died and it is obvious to anyone who watched the video.

    nk (1d9030)

  31. Dana at 27:

    “If God heeded mothers’ prayers, we would all be rotting in safety and luxury.” — Nikos Kazantzakis, The Last Temptation Of Christ (translation mine)

    (Yeah, the Greek Orthodox Church excommunicated him and the Roman Catholic Church put the book in its Index of Prohibited Books.)

    But I understand what you mean.

    nk (1d9030)

  32. And by the way, Colonel Klink, what makes you so sure that Chauvin and the other cops didn’t suspect that Floyd was under the influence?

    And after restraining him, choking him to death because he was a tweaker was supposed to be some sort of option? Chauvin had knelt on Floyd’s neck for about nine minutes while Floyd was handcuffed and lying face down on the street

    When they first approached him he immediately started with the “I can’t breathe” routine — apparently even before any officers had begun to tussle with him — and then he ends up throwing a fit about being put in the back of the squad car and starts whimpering for his mother.

    Unfortunately…for those trying a little retconning of history, this is on video and is not the actual sequence of events. The “I can’t breath” started while he was cuffed in the police vehicle and was the reason he was removed, and then was choked to death…again, after he’d already been handcuffed, already been put in a cruiser once, already in distress, again all of that was before kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes.

    Yeah, if I’m a cop I’m going to start to suspect that this guy is probably in an altered mental state thanks to chemicals and I would be very wary of him doing something stupid and rash and therefore do my utmost to keep him restrained, even if prolonged kneeling on his neck was excessive.

    Again, again, he was already restrained, had been put in a cruiser, removed from a cruiser, only then did Chauvin commit second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  33. Yeah, I think the world needs people like Dana whose kind and generous heart thinks of the bereaved family left behind in these sorts of tragedies and reminds us of the little girl missing her dad or the elderly woman missing her son.

    But I think the world also needs those of a decidedly more grumpy bent like nk and me who quickly tire of the deification of a guy who continually made bad decisions throughout his life and who was almost certainly just as likely eventually to have carelessly taken someone’s life as he was to have his own life carelessly taken from him.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  34. Unfortunately…for those trying a little retconning of history, this is on video and is not the actual sequence of events. The “I can’t breath” started while he was cuffed in the police vehicle and was the reason he was removed,

    Tell you what, Colonel Klink: why don’t you watch this video of the bodycam footage taken from Officer Keung and tell me if you don’t believe that George Floyd is behaving erratically from the first moment that the officer engages with him. Why in the world wouldn’t have a cop suspected that he was whacked out of his mind?

    Again, again, he was already restrained, had been put in a cruiser, removed from a cruiser,

    You mean removed from a cruiser because his weird hysteria (probably aided by drugs) made him demand to be removed, right?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  35. It remains unclear whether Trump himself will be charged.

    Those walls are closing in at almost supersonic speeds.

    This issue cannot be reduced to a political issue.

    By issue we’re talking about the thing that’s been reduced to a political issue.

    Pakistan’s prime minister, Imran Khan, is facing backlash after he blamed victims of rape for wearing “very few clothes”.

    In the old days this was a job for the Marines or maybe a SEAL team. I think we can just drone strike this guy now.

    frosty (f27e97)

  36. If only white Chauvin had shot and killed white Ashli Babbitt instead- he’d be hailed a hero. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  37. Airstrip One values:

    Before entering politics, Khan was an international cricketer and captain of the Pakistan national cricket team, which he led to victory in the 1992 Cricket World Cup. He was chancellor of the University of Bradford in the United Kingdom from 2005 to 2014.

    He’s more British than Pakistani, and we’ve seen lately how the British matriarchy treats its women. I wonder if Pakistani men who are the fathers, brothers, husbands, and sons of Pakistani women will let him get away with it.

    nk (1d9030)

  38. You could make the point that if the officers had ignored Floyds demands to be taken out of the cruiser and just shut the door with him in the back seat, he’d be alive and they’d not be facing prison. No good deed goes unpunished.
    I think the results show that Floyd was clearly better off in the back seat, the officers were better off with Floyd in the back seat. The takeaway for me is get his butt in the car, drop windows down and crank AC up… if he dies anyway, its not my fault.
    Once they pulled him out of the back seat, they were made to own everything and Floyd owned nothing

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  39. “The Department is committed to bringing back military family members who were unjustly deported”

    Well, I would think that anyone who was unjustly deported would be worthy of attention. Bht I guess they are saying that a veteran cannot be justly deported, which is surprising. A number of veterans breached the Capitol on 1/6 (and Lee Harvey Oswald was a veteran). Had any of them been non-citizens they would surely have been deported.

    So, I guess they’re just moving their mouths again.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  40. With all these trillions Biden is spending for unimportant things, I thought I’d try to think of some more important thigns to spend silly amounts of money on.

    $1 Trillion could build 1000 miles of subway in Los Angeles. Probably more, making the city approach livability again. Remember, every person on a subway car is not on your road.

    $1 Trillion would build a classic 2001 space station. Maybe even resurect Pan Am to fly there.

    $1 Trillion could shore up a lot of government pension funds.

    $1 Trillion could rescue Social Security for the next 50 years

    $4 Trillion could cover Medicare’s unfunded liabilities for the lifetime of everyone now alive.

    $5 Trillion could pay $100,000 reparations to every Black adult over 30 in this country, and then pay the same to each Black person on their 30th birthday for the next 50 years.

    Not advocating any of these, but they’re probably a better way of wasting money than whatever Biden has in mind.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  41. https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/rick-moran/2021/06/25/republicans-fall-for-bidens-infrastructure-bait-and-switch-n1457116
    Never a doubt on the stupidity of the republican party. These nitwits should be in Cuba.

    mg (8cbc69)

  42. Watch the video tape of the career criminal Floyd’s previous arrest. His “I can’t breathe” shtick is just that.

    The trial was a public lynching to prevent more arson and rioting from people who emulate Heath Ledger’s Joker.

    NJRob (01231a)

  43. This Minneapolis place is worse than we thought. The ME autopsied a living man who was only faking not breathing.

    nk (1d9030)

  44. Who can be surprised that in Pakistan, a country with a sizeable Taliban influence, that the culture there finds it completely acceptable to blame women for wearing too few clothes for rape?

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597)

  45. One way or another, the government’s monopoly on violence will be enforced, and don’t you ever forget it:

    DENVER (AP) — Johnny Hurley was hailed by police as a hero for shooting and killing a gunman they say had killed one officer and expressed hatred for police in a Denver suburb. But when another officer rushed in to respond and saw Hurley holding the suspect’s AR-15, he shot Hurley, killing him, police revealed Friday.

    nk (1d9030)

  46. JVW wrote:

    Yeah, I think the world needs people like Dana whose kind and generous heart thinks of the bereaved family left behind in these sorts of tragedies and reminds us of the little girl missing her dad or the elderly woman missing her son.

    But I think the world also needs those of a decidedly more grumpy bent like nk and me who quickly tire of the deification of a guy who continually made bad decisions throughout his life and who was almost certainly just as likely eventually to have carelessly taken someone’s life as he was to have his own life carelessly taken from him.

    It’s like capital punishment; you can oppose the practice, as I do, but it’s pretty difficult to have any sympathy for the few guys who are sentenced to death due to the terrible nature of the crimes they have committed.

    Derek Chauvin caused his own problems, but, let’s face it, Minneapolis is better off without George Floyd living in it.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597)

  47. JVW, Floyd was a criminal and a drug user who resisted arrest. But somewhere during the time he was being smothered to death Chauvin stopped using reasonable force to subdue a suspect and began murdering a man slowly and in cold blood. I think both the nature of the victim and behavior of their murder are pertinent in determining sentence. I have no problem with a cold blooded murderer spending 20 years in prison.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  48. @43, the totalitarian regime responded to a tip, gathered evidence, questioned the suspect for 3 hours and let him go. That’s just like what Stalin used to do. 😂

    I do think the level of force they used to serve the warrant was excessive. If you want to partner with people trying to reform the amount of force used in policing you should checkout BLM.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  49. The GOP controlled Michigan Senate has released a detailed report on the 2020 election in MI. Summary is below.

    https://misenategopcdn.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/99/doccuments/20210623/SMPO_2020ElectionReport.pdf

    At this point, I feel confident to assert the results of the Michigan election are accurately represented by the certified and audited results. While the Committee was unable to exhaust every possibility, we were able to delve thoroughly into enough to reasonably reach this conclusion.
    The strongest conclusion comes in regard to Antrim County. All compelling theories that sprang forth from the rumors surrounding Antrim County are diminished so significantly as for it to be a complete waste of time to consider them further.
    Most of the rigorous debate over additional audits comes from fears surrounding the technology used and its vulnerabilities as allegedly demonstrated in Antrim County. Without any evidence to validate those fears, another audit, a so-called forensic audit, is not justifiable. Michigan’s already completed post-election audit and risk-limiting audit are also far more substantive than Arizona’s standard audit. However, I am keeping a close eye on the legislatively-initiated forensic audit in Arizona and will continue to ask questions regarding other election issues I feel are not settled. If genuine issues are shown in Arizona’s audit or from continued investigation here, I will not hesitate to ask the Committee to consider recommending an audit or amending this report.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  50. To understand the George Floyd death weshould apply Hanlon’s Razor: “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”. Chauvin, who was not the brightest officer on the force, probably wasn’t thinking about the risks to Floyd in what he was doing. Instead, he was probably thinking that he was showing the rookies how to restrain a large man, who might be on drugs.

    Now you can be just as dead from someone’s stupidity, as from someone’s malice, but, in thinking about public policy, we need to distinguish the two — and usually do.

    And I should add that Floyd’s survivors deserve our sympathy regardless of whether his death was due to stupidity or malice.

    (For the record: Of course, “never” is too strong; it is possible to find, for example, comments at this site that are more likely motivated by malice than the result of stupidity. And a few appear to be both motivated by malice, and stupid.

    But we should almost always consider the stupidity hypothesis before accepting the malice hypothesis.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  51. Jim, the scenario you’re offering wasn’t presented at trial.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  52. If people actually wanted to “document” the supposed widespread election cheating, there are ways to do so, but they don’t actually want to do that because the cheating isn’t there.

    Are illegals voting in CA elections? Audit Imperial County’s polls and see. Small county. Lots of Hispanics. Lots of seasonal farm workers. If immigrants are voting, they’re voting there.

    But no one is interested because they’d find out what MI found out — nothing of the sort. All they want to do is BS and influence the ignorant.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  53. Mumford and Sons lose a gracious banjo player

    Twitter delenda est.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  54. Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/26/2021 @ 7:13 am

    I have no problem with a cold blooded murderer spending 20 years in prison.

    I wouldn’t either if that’s what he was convicted of.

    frosty (f27e97)

  55. Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/26/2021 @ 7:19 am

    If you want to partner with people trying to reform the amount of force used in policing you should checkout BLM.

    Unfortunately, I can’t partner with a group of marxists that support terrorism and racism.

    frosty (f27e97)

  56. Who can be surprised that in Pakistan, a country with a sizeable Taliban influence, that the culture there finds it completely acceptable to blame women for wearing too few clothes for rape?

    The first clue should have been burkas. A culture which routinely hides the attractiveness of women will have different views about those women who display their beauty.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  57. Nike is ‘a brand of China and for China,’ CEO says during earnings call
    ………
    During an earnings call this week, (Nike CEO John) Donahoe explained that Nike had a long-term view of its operations in China, where it had been operating for about four decades.

    “We are the largest sport brand there, and we are a brand of China and for China,” Donahoe said. “And the biggest asset we have in China is the consumer equity. Consumers feel a strong, deep connection to the NIKE, Jordan and Converse brands in China. And it’s real.”……
    ………
    Related:

    Nike stock soars to record as US sales boom

    Nike Inc. shares surged to a record high Friday as customers splurged on sneakers and sportswear as they looked to refresh their wardrobes coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic.

    Shares of the Beaverton, Oregon-based athletic wear maker rose by as much as 15% to $154.19 apiece, giving the company a $243.6 billion market capitalization.
    ………
    “The market’s main question now is if this is ‘the top’ for Nike? We think the answer is no,” wrote UBS analysts Jay Sole and Mauricio Serna, who reiterated their buy rating raised their price target to $185 a share from $170. “We believe the reason to own Nike is for the exceptional growth it is likely to achieve over the coming years.”

    Nike reported total revenue for its fiscal fourth quarter spiked 96% from a year ago to $12.34 billion. Net income was $1.5 billion.

    Sales in North America, Nike’s largest market, soared 141% year over year to a record $5.38 billion. Sales were up 29% on a two-year basis.

    The strong performance in North America helped offset slowing sales growth in Greater China. Revenue from the region rose 17% to $1.93 billion, below the $2.25 billion that analysts were expecting.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  58. Watch the video tape of the career criminal Floyd’s previous arrest. His “I can’t breathe” shtick is just that.

    Jack Dunphy, who some of us old-timers will recall used to guest blog here, had a column in the days after Floyd’s death talking about police procedures. Like the rest of us, he thought that Chauvin had been grossly inattentive to Floyd’s condition while restraining him, but one thing he pointed out is that “I can’t breathe” is a standard complaint that shrewd perpetrators use to try to avoid arrest or perhaps to set the stage for a police brutality complaint. They figure that if their offense is minor enough (like, I don’t know, passing counterfeit money for example) that the officers will get frustrated and bored and just let them off with a warning, or at the very least the officer will feel compelled to take them to a hospital for observation rather than straight to the police station for booking.

    So if we take Dunphy at his word, and I see no reason not to, it becomes a bit more understandable why a veteran cop like Chauvin wasn’t all that sympathetic to the “I can’t breathe” claims.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  59. OAN Goes Full Fascist, Calls for Mass Executions Over ‘Election Fraud’
    One America News personality Pearson Sharp unleashed an openly fascistic fantasy this week, calling for the mass executions for thousands of Americans based on his belief in the outright false claim that widespread voter fraud amounted to a “coup” against former president Donald Trump.
    ……..
    During an on-air essay that first aired Tuesday night, Sharp—who has repeatedly lied about the 2020 election and Jan. 6 insurrection—embraced these latest attempts to discredit Biden’s victory to call for harsh retribution against Democrats.

    ………Sharp claimed that “the radical Democrats left fingerprints all over the country, providing a trail of evidence that the 2020 election was not only tampered with, it was actually overthrown.” He then said this “raises questions” over the level of involvement in the nonexistent election fraud.

    “How many people were involved in these efforts to undermine the election? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands?” Sharp dramatically asked. “How many people does it take to carry out a coup against the presidency?”

    ………. When all the dust settles from the audit in Arizona and the potential audits in Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada, and Wisconsin, what happens to all these people who are responsible for overthrowing the election? What are the consequences for traitors who meddled with our sacred democratic process and tried to steal power by taking away the voices of the American people? What happens to them?”

    In a hauntingly calm manner, Sharp answered his own question.

    “Well, in the past, America had a very good solution for dealing with such traitors: Execution,” he bluntly declared.

    “Treason is considered the highest of all crimes and is the only crime defined in the U.S. Constitution which states that anyone is guilty of treason if they support America’s enemies,” Sharp added.

    “So far, there have been numerous indications that foreign governments, including China and Pakistan, meddled in our election to install Joe Biden as president,” he concluded. “Any Americans involved in these efforts—from those who ran the voting machines to the very highest government officials—is guilty of treason under U.S. Code 2381, which carries with it the penalty of death.”

    One America News did not respond to a request for further clarification of Sharp’s remarks appearing to call for mass executions.
    …………
    Related:


    ‘Neither I, Nor OAN, Are Suggesting Anyone Should Be Executed,’ Says Guy on OAN Who Suggested People Should Be Executed For Election Fraud

    On Thursday, One America News host Pearson Sharp attempted to clarify on-air remarks suggesting that the 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump, and that the “traitors” responsible should face “execution.”
    ……..
    “No, neither myself, nor OAN is ‘embracing executing thousands of people,’” Sharp told Talking Points Memo (TPM). “OAN is simply pointing out that if election fraud is proven, then it could very well constitute treason. And according to our laws, treason is punishable by death. If it is found that government officials coordinated with foreign countries to overthrow the election, then that would be the very definition of treason. Which, according to our nation’s laws, could result in execution.”

    In an another email to TPM, Sharp said of executing traitors, “That is for the appropriate law enforcement agencies to determine,” and denied advocating “vigilantism.”

    “Execution for treason is strictly a legal process,” he said.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  60. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/26/2021 @ 12:56 am

    A most entertaining comment, Mr. M. Reminiscent of David Burge.

    felipe (484255)

  61. time123 – I’ll take your word for that, as I didn’t pay much attention to the trial. And I don’t know whether stupidity is a defense, anyway. But I am sure that in thinking about public policy we ought to remember that the average IQ is 100, which means that half the people are below 100.

    If stupidity is the more important problem, as I think it is, that calls for a different set of changes than if malice is.

    (If I recall correctly, in The Caine Mutiny, one of the characters says that the Navy is a system designed by geniuses to be run by idiots (or something like that).)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  62. @Jim Miller (edcec1) — 6/26/2021 @ 7:26 am

    That was a thoughtful comment, Jim. But I see what you did there.

    —-

    @Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/26/2021 @ 7:34 am

    Good observation, Time, respectful and succinct. You, too, saw what Jim did there.

    In fact, I’m pretty sure we all saw what Jim did there.

    felipe (484255)

  63. The trial was a public lynching to prevent more arson and rioting from people who emulate Heath Ledger’s Joker.

    The ME ruled Floyd’s death a homicide, and it easily fit the crime for which he was charged. The videotape of the end of his life didn’t lie.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  64. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 6/26/2021 @ 8:59 am

    This is how civilizations are built, but your point is well taken. History teaches that a high IQ is no guarantee of success and no warranty in case of failure.

    felipe (484255)

  65. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/26/2021 @ 9:16 am

    I agree with you Paul. Let me further add that I find the use of hyperbole in this tragedy is a poor use of its medicinal qualities.

    felipe (484255)

  66. Floyd’s fate was preprogrammed; it’s why the UFO Report hides the truth:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-we-living-in-a-computer-simulation/

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  67. 54, Imperial Co. has become reliably blue and is not an “unwilling” appendage to, say the old Duncan Hunter or Kevin McCarthy’s congressional district nor even part of a purple district(it instead is part of the uber-Dem border district of Juan Vargas, which is San Ysidro and parts of Chula V and National City). Thus not much stakes in nursing and harvesting a cache of illegal votes.

    urbanleftbehind (7b9281)

  68. one thing he pointed out is that “I can’t breathe” is a standard complaint that shrewd perpetrators use to try to avoid arrest or perhaps to set the stage for a police brutality complaint.

    I had a variant of that pulled on me eighteen years or so ago, when I called 911 over a street confrontation with a poor oppressed victim of systemic racism, but my perp’s was “I can’t walk”. It worked, too. The cop called an ambulance for him, parked his car for him, and gave me a tear off stub with the incident report number (for a souvenir I suppose). The paramedics knew the score and told me so on the side. I just put it down to life in the big city and out of mind.

    nk (1d9030)

  69. Bah! I must correct this mess!

    I find the use [application] of hyperbole in this tragedy is [to be] a poor use of its medicinal qualities.

    Who wrote that crap?

    felipe (484255)

  70. I just realized that I am missing Dustin’s comments! Where are you, Dustin?

    felipe (484255)

  71. Frosty, that’s a reasonable concern. Unfortunately there’s no one on the right working the issue.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  72. @49. I have no problem with a cold blooded murderer spending 20 years in prison.

    All the more reason to ferret out for trial the Royalist-paid killer of unarmed veteran Ashli Babbitt.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  73. DC, would you be up for a “side by side”, a la St. Dimas and you-know-who?

    urbanleftbehind (7b9281)

  74. (for a souvenir I suppose)

    Now that, right there, is funny!

    felipe (484255)

  75. Who can be surprised that in Pakistan, a country with a sizeable Taliban influence, that the culture there finds it completely acceptable to blame women for wearing too few clothes for rape?

    The problem isn’t that Pakistan is influenced by the Taliban. It’s that Pakistan and the Taliban grew out of essentially the same belief system. Imran Khan’s view that women are probably to blame when men rape them is rooted in cultural attitudes that long predate the Taliban.

    In the 1990s Khan married Jemima Goldsmith, daughter of a British tycoon and friend of Lady Diana. They lived in Pakistan while he started his political career. She claims he didn’t display such ideas when they were together. He probably adopted a veneer of a British outlook when he was in Britain, but that wouldn’t work for a politician in Pakistan.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  76. Ashli Babbitt.

    Well, you know, DCSCA, I hate to tell you this, I really do, but a woman breaking down doors and climbing through windows trying to get to you is not a consummation devoutly to be wished for everyone.

    nk (1d9030)

  77. “His “I can’t breathe” shtick is just that.”

    Amazing dedication to his craft. Floyd suffocated himself to not break kayfabe.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  78. Was “I Cant Breathe” a common ruse before the Eric Garner incident or only afterward when it became appropriated / t-shirted by Black left glitterati?

    urbanleftbehind (7b9281)

  79. Video Shows GOP Rep. Comparing Democrats to Nazis: ‘They Want to Destroy the Country’
    ………
    “They are not the loyal opposition. They are the opposition to everything you love and believe in,” Pennsylvania Republican Rep. Scott Perry (R-Insurrectionist) said of Democrats as he concluded a speech to the conservative Pennsylvania Leadership Conference on June 11. “Go fight them.”
    ………..
    The congressman argued that differentiating between Democrats was like discerning between Germans during the Nazi reign—that it was fair to lump all Democrats together as extremists because even those who don’t support those views don’t stand up to their members who do.

    “We can acknowledge that maybe not every one of them is that way, but that doesn’t matter,” he said. “We’ve seen this throughout history, right? Not every not every citizen in Germany in the 1930s and ’40s was in the Nazi Party. They weren’t. But what happened across Germany? That’s what’s important. What were the policies? What was the leadership? That’s what we have to focus on.”
    ………
    “It wasn’t a government in Germany that took the people’s rights away immediately. It was fascism. Fascism took it away, because the government put the heavy hand on the companies and the companies did the government’s work. Well look around, ladies and gentlemen,” he said.

    “We support big business, but not if it’s anti-America, not if it’s anti-American, and we shouldn’t be afraid to say it,” Perry continued on.
    ………
    (Perry, a former Iraq War brigadier general) accused the media of lying about COVID-19 and mask-wearing, called the 2020 election a “debacle” while insinuating it was rigged, and cast the stakes of the fight against Democrats in near-apocalyptic terms.

    “Ladies and gentlemen, there’s a plan,” he said ominously after accusing Democrats of trying to intentionally destroy America’s economy by causing runaway inflation and oil scarcity. “They’ll tell you they’re patriots. But the patriots like the patriots in this room must acknowledge that things are different now. They want to destroy the country that you grew up in. They want to destroy the country that the founders made. That is their plan. That is their goal. That’s why they’re doing these things.”
    ………
    Perry wasn’t thrilled to talk about the speech with VICE News—perhaps unsurprisingly, given that he also used his speech to accuse the media of being in the pocket of the left and intentionally misleading people.

    “I reject the premise of the question,” he said when VICE News asked why he’d made allusions to Nazis while talking about Democrats.

    “I’m not interested. Thank you,” he said when asked if he would discuss the speech, ducking into an elevator just off of the House floor. When VICE News asked if he thought Democrats were patriots he repeated “I reject the premise of the question.”

    He glared as VICE News asked what that premise was that he disputed………
    ……….
    Perry is in a marginal district, winning by only six points. It will be interesting to see what happens to his district after reapportionment.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  80. Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/26/2021 @ 9:36 am

    And no one on the left is either. At least not BLM/Antifa. There playing the game were they call what they want “reform” but it doesn’t have anything to do with better policies, increased safety, less crime, etc.

    frosty (e170f2)

  81. Imran Khan….that boy be “light” for a P__i…and he effed up with that Jemima chick, Anglo-Celtic fineness wasted.

    urbanleftbehind (7b9281)

  82. After controversy, U.S. Catholic bishops say there will be ‘no national policy on withholding Communion from politicians’
    ………
    During the three-day meeting of the U.S. bishops and in its aftermath, the bishops made conflicting statements about the document’s intention.

    The idea for the document came from a committee the USCCB created after the November election in order to deal with the “problem” of Biden and his abortion policy, and what some bishops see as a confusing scandal for other Catholics watching the country’s most prominent member of their faith.
    ………
    During the meeting many bishops said Biden was exacerbating what many faith leaders see as an already big problem: Most U.S. Catholics, polls show, don’t attend Mass weekly and don’t believe in the supernatural aspect of Communion. But many other bishops pushed back to say there shouldn’t be a special emphasis on abortion and politicians, and such a document would politicize the sacrament.
    ………
    Four days after the vote, on June 21, the USCCB released a Q&A excising past mention of Biden, a national policy or a focus on abortion.

    “There will be no national policy on withholding Communion from politicians. The intent is to present a clear understanding of the Church’s teachings to bring heightened awareness among the faithful of how the Eucharist can transform our lives and bring us closer to our creator and the life he wants for us,” the Q&A said.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  83. Anglo-Celtic fineness wasted.

    Jemima’s father was born in Paris and came from the German Jewish Goldschmidt family, “who had been influential figures in international merchant banking since the 16th Century.” Her mother is a descendant of the Londonderry family, as in the Marquess of Londonderry.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  84. @79. Well, you know, nk, hate to tell you this, white unard vetern Ashli Babbitt wasn’t alone and it was a window to an empty corridor. But the black Royalist killer Kapitol Keystone Kop can tell us the play by play them self.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  85. Filipe, thank you for the kind comment.

    Time123 (495410)

  86. Amazing dedication to his craft. Floyd suffocated himself to not break kayfabe.

    Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/26/2021 @ 10:03 am

    Good hustlers actually believe what they are saying. And he was high. And he wasn’t in good health. At some point, his ‘I can’t breathe’ schtick became self-pity, and the transition to actual suffocation was probably more complicated than any of us can understand.

    Two things are clear:

    Chauvin didn’t intentionally kill him, and used a technique he was taught by an agency that hung him to dry
    Chauvin was jaded and inattentive, and anyone with common sense would have seen that was going on too long. I think the crowd ironically had him sticking to his guns, and had the cops and Floyd been isolated, they may have handled it better. That just my gut reaction.

    I think Chauvin did evil to Floyd, but it’s hard to yield that in this environment that takes the inch and wants the mile. Still, it’s the truth. If he was murdering Floyd he wouldn’t have done it like that, and it’s so tedious how people pretend that’s not the case.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  87. Babbitt wasn’t alone, just the first (and last) of the mob breaching the barricade. She died for a lie.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  88. “They are not the loyal opposition. They are the opposition to everything you love and believe in,” Pennsylvania Republican Rep. Scott Perry (R-Insurrectionist) said of Democrats as he concluded a speech to the conservative Pennsylvania Leadership Conference on June 11. “Go fight them.”

    ROFLMAOPIP.

    “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!” – Senator Barry Goldwater, POTUS nominee( R – Insurrectionist)

    What goes around comes around: welcome to 1964.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  89. She died for a lie.

    No. Killed for a cause. The black Royalist Kapitol Keystone Kop who shot and killed the white, unarmed veteran can clear up the details when they show the same courage of their own professional convictions and come forward. Release the name, Royalists. What’s to hide.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  90. @85. Cultists gotta cult.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  91. Frosty; BLM is a freak show. But it’s the only game in town on police reform right now.

    Time123 (495410)

  92. No. Killed for a cause.

    No, killed for believing a big fat lie. There was no “cause” here, just a bunch of cultists being gullible fools, naively believing whatever their cult leader was telling them. She wasted her life.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  93. Killed for a cause. The black Royalist Kapitol Keystone Kop who bla bla bla

    LOL WTF

    Yeah let’s hand the name of this hero over to the nuts.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  94. Dustin, do you think the defense you laid out might have helped him at sentencing more then his actual defense?

    Time123 (495410)

  95. Dustin, I think any time the state kills a citizen it should be investigated and the results made public. Even in cases like this where people who hate the US will lie about the information.

    Time123 (495410)

  96. any time the state kills a citizen it should be investigated and the results made public.

    I disagree, if you mean we’re entitled to that cop’s name. too many ‘civil war please’ types out there. I agree, if you mean all you’re actually saying, investigate and release the investigation outcome (And as much info as you can release).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  97. Dustin, do you think the defense you laid out might have helped him at sentencing more then his actual defense?

    Time123 (495410) — 6/26/2021 @ 11:43 am

    I’m not sure. Chauvin did a bad thing and caused his colleagues a lot of hardship, and his behavior killed a man. But there are a lot of factors that help me understand him better. A psycho choking a man to death for nine minutes as everyone begs him to stop is a lot different from the truth of the matter.

    The ‘I can’t breathe’ is BS thought… I buy that. The context of Floyd before this incident. The effort to call an ambulance. The wheels spinning awkwardly instead of recognizing the situation is getting worse and a change, any change, is needed… I guess I get that though I do not condone it.

    what I don’t get is the intent to end floyd’s life. Granted, if I wildly fire a gun into the next room, and someone dies, the intent element is satisfied in common law, and that’s pretty close to how many see Chauvin’s choices. But he over-used a technique taught to him in dealing with a man who chose to create this entire situation. That’s not a murderer, that’s someone who should have been assigned to the property desk or even encouraged to change fields.

    Two changes to the police profession: I think we need to evaluate people every five years and find good ways to encourage them to change careers when they are just done. All these 20-30 year vets who didn’t promote have too much influence over the rookies, and are carrying around a lot of baggage. And are great people who deserve something, maybe some disability like PTSD vets get.

    Also, I really do think we should draft rookies somehow, see to it that far more of us had a ‘tour’ on patrol, so we understand the nature of policing. This is a lot better than lavish unemployment payouts.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  98. If Michael Leroy Bird’s name is made public, that he was the guy who shot and killed Ms. Babbitt, then what? He was already cleared by the IG.
    The “reveal” will likely result in mass harassment, endangering himself and perhaps his family. I recall the officer who shot Michael Brown, that he had to leave Ferguson and law enforcement although the shoot was justified.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  99. Dustin, I understand what you’re saying about the name of this officer. But, all they’ve released is the conclusion. When an agent of the state kills a citizen and the state says it’s OK I feel like we’re owed the explanation for WHY it was OK. In this cas I understand not wanting to release the name. But I think that’s a bad general rule.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  100. #54

    There is a graphic floating around of the CA/AZ border.
    It points out that on the AZ side the Democrats are fighting against signature validation in the Maricopa County, AZ audit.
    Meanwhile on the CA side, the Democrats are fighting for signature (in)validation on the petitions to recall.

    If the Democrats weren’t fighting the audits, I would not be suspicious. Why not say “Sure, periodic audits promote public trust, and public trust is tantamount in elections, so have at it, we are confident there is none, but its worth looking into after a tight race”

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  101. Dustin,

    Does your analysis of Chauvin also take into account that he had, at the time of Floyd’s death, 18 complaints lodged against him? Does that seem like a normal and/or acceptable amount of complaints to you? Or does it lead you to believe that there was already a serious problem with the officer?

    Dana (fd537d)

  102. Also, all these statues of George Floyd are a slap in the face to pretty much everybody. The black man who raises his children. The cop who works hard and does it right. Everyone who doesn’t create these incredibly dangerous situations like Floyd did, with one bad decision after another, year after year.

    Why would you want more people like Floyd? I know these statutes are some passive aggressive way of saying his life mattered and society must have not thought it did, but Floyd’s life didn’t matter enough to Floyd himself, and everyone else’s life matters enough to me that I do not want more of them to emulate Floyd.

    Nuclear family, fathers, work. Those are good things. The black family prior to LBJ wasn’t living in utopia, yet it had dignity and mattered. That’s what the statue should be of.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  103. Dustin, I understand what you’re saying about the name of this officer. But, all they’ve released is the conclusion. When an agent of the state kills a citizen and the state says it’s OK I feel like we’re owed the explanation for WHY it was OK. In this cas I understand not wanting to release the name. But I think that’s a bad general rule.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/26/2021 @ 12:23 pm

    I’m sure there is a report going step by step over why the shooting was justified, or at least why an allegation of misconduct cannot be sustained. I agree that this should be public information. I don’t know if it’s a good or bad general rule to hide the name of the cop. Could go either way, i guess but in this case, just read DCSCA’s comments. Too many people hate the guy too much, and sometimes we need to employ common sense. rare I know.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  104. time123 – You might want to read a little about Eric Adams, who will probably be New York City’s next mayor. He has, I think, the right background to propose reforms there.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  105. Yeah, I think the world needs people like Dana whose kind and generous heart thinks of the bereaved family left behind in these sorts of tragedies and reminds us of the little girl missing her dad or the elderly woman missing her son.

    But I think the world also needs those of a decidedly more grumpy bent like nk and me who quickly tire of the deification of a guy who continually made bad decisions throughout his life and who was almost certainly just as likely eventually to have carelessly taken someone’s life as he was to have his own life carelessly taken from him.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 6/25/2021 @ 8:49 pm

    I’m going to push back on this and say that it is entirely possible to hold both thoughts at once. I know I do. I am sympathetic to his mom and his daughter and siblings. There is no denying that, no matter one’s walk in life, a trauma like the one they experienced-regardless of the victim’s character or lifestyle-leaves a big wound in those who loved him. Yet this is no way deifying the victim, nor ignoring or denying his character and/or arrests for robbery, possession, theft, etc. It is simply realizing that he meant something to someone on this earth and that they will miss him.

    Dana (fd537d)

  106. Dustin,

    Does your analysis of Chauvin also take into account that he had, at the time of Floyd’s death, 18 complaints lodged against him? Does that seem like a normal and/or acceptable amount of complaints to you? Or does it lead you to believe that there was already a serious problem with the officer?

    Dana (fd537d) — 6/26/2021 @ 12:24 pm

    Yes, I think that is a large number of complaints. Someone working the street should be getting a few complaints or they probably are a pushover. A lot of the people they deal with are liars, too intoxicated to know what happened, or paranoid. “If you’re not getting complaints you’re not doing your job.”

    I speculate the department needed someone like him who could lead rookies and train them to be safe, proactive, get their hands dirty, and do the job. Those boots Chauvin wore were paratrooper boots. Heavy, uncomfortable, but they help a lot with worn out ankles. Chauvin was a smaller guy. I bet his body has a lot of mileage, and I bet his spirit did too.

    But there are plenty of cops with 3-5 years of experience who make better field trainers than the 20-30 year guys. Age discrimination for patrol work should be employed heavily, because there is just too much baggage from that kind of career, and too much influence over peers. What comes across as sage and vigilant when there’s nothing wrong can turn into something bad in a crisis.

    In my opinion, there probably was a problem with this officer.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  107. “Chauvin didn’t intentionally kill him, and used a technique he was taught by an agency that hung him to dry”

    My understanding is that the technique is to control the individual to put on the handcuffs but then the officers are trained to turn suspects on their sides (the recovery position) as soon as possible…specifically to prevent breathing problems. One of the other on-scene officers (Lane) asked “Should we roll him on his side”. Chauvin responded “No, he’s staying put where we got him.” A couple of minutes later, Lane asked about rolling Floyd again. So it seems that Lane understood perfectly well that Chauvin wasn’t using the technique as taught…and that at minimum, he was supposed to roll Floyd onto his side or sit him up. What exactly was Chauvin’s intent? He wanted to starve Floyd of oxygen with zero regard to whether or not it actually killed him. That’s far more than a “whoops” in my book…..he wanted to teach a lesson and punish a guy who was cuffed and in a prone position….and for what, a misdemeanor that could have been handled with a ticket? Sorry but I would think cops would want the book thrown at him…it was an epically bad decision

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  108. The Economist/YouGov Poll June 20 – 22, 2021

    n=1500 Adult US Citizens-Part 1-Selected Favorability Ratings

    Right Track/Wrong Track-40/45
    Democrats-69/17
    Republicans-19/74
    Independents-27/57

    Favorability/Unfavorability
    Biden-50/43
    Democrats-90/8
    Republicans-14/85
    Independents-39/55

    Biden Job Approval-50/40
    Democrats-91/6
    Republicans-14/80
    Independents-39/52

    Harris- 46/44
    Democrats-86/9
    Republicans-14/82
    Independents-32/59

    Pelosi-37/52
    Democrats-77/15
    Republicans-11/85
    Independents-32/69

    McCarthy-26/39
    Democrats-18/51
    Republicans-44/39
    Independents-23/42

    McConnell-26/56
    Democrats-16/71
    Republicans-48/38
    Independents-20/63

    Schumer-33/44
    Democrats-65/15
    Republicans-9/75
    Independents-21/59

    Donald Trump-41/53
    Democrats-11/85
    Republicans-83/15
    Independents-40/56

    Democratic Party-44/47
    Democrats-88/9
    Republicans-11/86
    Independents-27/66

    Republican Party-34/56
    Democrats-12/75
    Republicans-76/21
    Independents-28/64

    Xi Jinping-10/46
    Democrats-11/47
    Republicans-9/51
    Independents-8/52

    Vladimir Putin-13/68
    Democrats-13/75
    Republicans-16/69
    Independents-13/73

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  109. @106. I’m sure there is a report going step by step over why the shooting was justified…

    And I’m sure there’s truly is a report that definitively explains what UFOs really are, too.

    But ‘hate’, Dustin?? And who says it was a ‘guy’? You know something about it the rest of us don’t? But then, Royalists gotta royal.

    Don’t they.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  110. @108. Of course, Dana. Nobody wants to see anybody intentionally killed — for passing bad money– or climbing through a window.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  111. Dustin, your point about crazy people is hard to refute.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  112. We should all pray for that day when the wonderful news is reported that nobody was murdered or accidently killed in America, all ships are safe in port and all planes landed safely.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  113. @95. Depend on your POV. Redcoat or rebel; Union or Confederate, etc., etc.

    You’re entitled to your opinion, Paul; after all, Royalists gotta royal.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  114. @96. “Nuts,” Dustin? 74-plus million nuts?

    Who are the podium protectors and UFO chasers? What’s to fear: might makes right. They have the National Guard, the barbed wire fencing, the fighter planes and nukes– Squinty McStumblbum says so.

    What’s to fear? But then, Royalists gotta royal. Don’t they.

    =cashew= Gesundheit.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  115. AJ Liberty, I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. The problem isn’t the use of the technique (though I doubt many want to use it now, it is often safer to take control quickly than to use insufficient force and drag an interaction out). The problem is that they didn’t get him seated upright, and Chauvin’s resistance to changing it up when it was clear they weren’t getting anywhere (which I did reference upthread).

    He wanted to starve Floyd of oxygen with zero regard to whether or not it actually killed him.

    Maybe. clearly the jury agreed with this, and I can’t say this is untrue. I also think it’s possible he was somehow detached from this reality, focused on the crowd or focused on being in charge. To be clear, this isn’t offered as a defense. It’s offered as discussion. It’s important to change when something isn’t working, and in this case it was very dangerous not to change when something wasn’t working.

    Sorry but I would think cops would want the book thrown at him…it was an epically bad decision

    Most cops say as much. I know my opinion is an outlier. That it was a bad decision is beyond dispute, afer all. Throwing the book meaning 22 years in prison for murder? I don’t think that fits what he did. I think that fits how angry society is, how much risk of riot there is, how politically important this is.

    But these days, I am getting tired of throwing the book at the unpopular defendant while so so so so so many are not charged at all because of who they are.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  116. 🥜🥜🥜

    Dustin (4237e0)

  117. But ‘hate’, Dustin?? And who says it was a ‘guy’? You know something about it the rest of us don’t?

    I just assume it was a man because of how heroic it was to save the capital from the horde like a badass …. and my inherent royal sexism.

    Haters gonna hate, you know.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  118. Why not say “Sure, periodic audits promote public trust,

    Audits done by experienced auditors are good. That isn’t what’s being done in Arizona.
    Arizona election officials had already done audits before the Arizona GOP declared it didn’t like the outcome and hired a firm with no election auditing experience to search for bamboo fibers in the ballots and whatnot. The main qualification of the Ciber Ninjas is that the CEO is a fervent Trumper who was pushing “the craziest election conspiracy theories,” in the words of the Maricopa County recorder, a Republican.

    The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, which is dominated by Republicans, has called for an end to the farce.

    Ever since the election, every Republican official who rejects the “stolen election” doctrine has been branded a traitor or a Deep State hack by the Trumpers, because the only result they will accept as legitimate is a Trump victory. They have absorbed the viewpoint of Dear Leader, who made it clear beforehand that the only result he would view as legitimate was a win for himself.

    Trumpers purport to be very very concerned about election integrity, but the whole Stop the Steal movement grew from the narcissistic delusions of a sociopath who believes he cannot ever lose a fair fight. It’s been amazing to see people who ought to be smarter making themselves abettors of his pathology.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  119. “Throwing the book meaning 22 years in prison for murder? I don’t think that fits what he did. I think that fits how angry society is, how much risk of riot there is, how politically important this is.”

    I agree that just as Chauvin was trying to make a point….this judge is doing the same thing…..and I’m not comfortable with it. Ten years would have also sent a clear message….but I have no deep knowledge of sentencing guidelines. This seems to me more like manslaughter with aggravating circumstances but it would be nice to hear (or re-hear if I missed it) what Patterico thinks….because looking down….yes I do have a belly button

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  120. https://www.marinatimes.com/2021/06/armed-robbery-at-stow-lake/

    DA Chesa Boudin charges? Disturbing the Peace
    (CPC 415(2)) defined as “Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another person by loud and unreasonable noise.”

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  121. DCSCA: “And who says it was a ‘guy’?”

    Didn’t Paul give you HIS name…..probably in an attempt to stop the record player from skipping…..and skipping…and skipping

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  122. Time123 (495410) — 6/26/2021 @ 11:27 am

    I think you and I are disagreeing on how the words “game” and “reform” are being used in that sentence.

    frosty (f27e97)

  123. Radegunda (33a224) — 6/26/2021 @ 2:10 pm

    but the whole Stop the Steal movement grew from the narcissistic delusions of a sociopath who believes he cannot ever lose a fair fight. It’s been amazing to see people who ought to be smarter making themselves abettors of his pathology.

    If we use the BLM playbook then we should just give them room to let this play out. Mass delusion is starting to shape up as the defining pattern of the 21st century.

    frosty (f27e97)

  124. Dustin wrote:

    Also, all these statues of George Floyd are a slap in the face to pretty much everybody. The black man who raises his children. The cop who works hard and does it right. Everyone who doesn’t create these incredibly dangerous situations like Floyd did, with one bad decision after another, year after year.

    Have you noticed? ?All of these #BlackLivesMatter heroes are bad guys, or people who did something just plain stupid to lead to their deaths?

    12-year-old Tamir Rice was an innocent, but he was playing with a toy gun that looked like a real one, badly enough that people in the park made a “man with a gun” call to the police. He pointed it at the police, and now he’s stone-cold graveyard dead.

    Breonna Taylor? She was the ex-girlfriend and still sometimes drug mule for a notorious drug-dealer. Eric Garner, Freddie Gray, Michael Brown and St George of Floyd were all criminals.

    You know which black guys don’t get killed by the police? The ones who are just living normal lives and not trying to cause any problems. There are millions of people like that, who never make the news.

    The problem is simple: in our urban black communities, they dislike the police more than they dislike the criminals in their midst. They are like the Palestinians in Gaza, tolerating, feeding, supporting, hiding, and f(ornicating) Hamas, no matter how much damage Hamas causes in Gaza, because they hate the Israelis more.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597)

  125. The Economist/YouGov Poll June 20 – 22, 2021

    Most Important Issues
    Overall/Democrats/Republicans/Independents

    Jobs and the economy-15%/12/17/17

    Immigration-7%/3/13/19

    Climate change/environment-14%/23/4/13

    Foreign policy-1%/1/1/2

    National Security-9%/5/14/10

    Education-5%/4/5/5

    Health Care-15%/23/11/15

    Taxes & Spending-8%/2/17/9

    Abortion-5%/3/6/4

    Civil Rights-7%/11/2/5

    Civil Liberties-2%/1/2/5

    Guns-4%/6/4/3

    Crime-4%/3/3/4

    Criminal Justice Reform-2%/3/1/1

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  126. @124. What’s the matter AJ, fear the truth?

    But then, Royalists gotta royal.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  127. “What’s the matter AJ, fear the truth?”

    No

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  128. I just assume it was a man…

    Black? Brown, White? Why? You don’t know. Never assume…etc., etc. etc.

    What’s to fear if the Royalists are in the right. It’s not like they’re going to strafe the cities with fighter jets or nuke the Mall full of citizens like Squinty sez they can.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  129. @130. Contrary to your own postings. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  130. “Black? Brown, White? Why? You don’t know.”

    Google is your friend

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  131. O.M.G.

    Latest video… Squinty is having trouble walking. Lurch and Frankenstein had a healthier stride and gait.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  132. “He pointed it at the police, and now he’s stone-cold graveyard dead.”

    No he didn’t.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  133. @133. ‘Google is a friend.’

    Chinese proverb, AJ. Internet buzz sez Luna is hollow, too. Let the Royalists release any and all official info on the shooting. They do work for us, you know.

    What’s to fear; they’ve got the fighter jets and the nukes. Squinty sez so.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  134. “You know which black guys don’t get killed by the police? The ones who are just living normal lives and not trying to cause any problems. There are millions of people like that, who never make the news.”

    Philando Castile. Botham Jean. Atatiana Jefferson.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  135. Speaking of innocent people getting shot:

    Police in Arvada, Colorado have confirmed that an officer shot and killed Johnny Hurley, the “Good Samaritan” who shot the man suspected in the fatal shooting of a police officer on Monday.

    A police timeline of events shows that Hurley killed 59-year-old Ronald Troyke shortly after he shot and killed Officer Gordon Beesley in Olde Town Arvada. An officer responding to the scene then fatally shot Hurley, who was holding Troyke’s AR-15 assault rifle at the time.

    https://www.newsweek.com/officer-shot-good-samaritan-johnny-hurley-who-killed-arvada-shooter-police-confirm-1604358

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  136. AJ, totally get your point about Chauvin making a point and the court making a point.

    It’s not politically correct to say in light of the incompetent and tragic outcome that they killed the guy, but sometimes a cop actually does need to make that point, that they are in control of the situation. It’s not just about the ego. People like Floyd take whatever they can and cops do need to address it to keep the community safe. It’s one of those difficult realities that calls for only the finest and most trusted police.

    It’s one thing to note this guy wasn’t. And another to look at how short PDs are or how many of my friends are leaving the profession and realize we have got a really tough problem.

    One that the court’s point made a little worse. I guess that’s my point.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  137. If we use the BLM playbook then we should just give them room to let this play out.

    The question is rather different when the delusion starts from the most powerful official in the land, who attempts to use the resources of his office to keep himself in power, and who has now turned his great influence toward booting out representatives and other officials who held the line and didn’t play along with him; and when Republican state legislators are aiming to give themselves the power to overturn the vote of the people in their state if the voters choose the wrong candidate.

    BLM may have sympathizers in the Democratic Party, but BLM didn’t start in the top ranks of the party. Democrats aren’t saying “It’s BLM’s party now.” Democratic candidates aren’t making pilgrimages to get the blessing of BLM leaders.

    Many Republicans have said “It’s Trump’s party now.”

    Radegunda (33a224)

  138. Didn’t Paul give you HIS name…..probably in an attempt to stop the record player from skipping…..and skipping…and skipping

    FTR, I’ve twice before put his name in a Patterico comment thread, yet the skipping still happens, except in this thread I misspelled his last name, which is Byrd.
    BTW, Floyd was a criminal, committing a criminal act on the day of his death, trying to pass off a phony $20 bill, but he didn’t deserve the death penalty for it. The guy was face-down, handcuffed with hands behind back, so the knee-on-neck thing was unnecessary. Nevertheless, the glorification of Floyd’s life seems a bit much.
    As I recall, the knee-on-neck maneuver was not an appropriate or approved technique by MPD, and Chauvin has a history of not treating suspects well.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  139. Radegunda (33a224) — 6/26/2021 @ 3:58 pm

    In your world Obama didn’t play into the lie about travon martin or hands up don’t shoot. Top D’s didn’t play dress up and kneel in the capital after Floyd? Harris didn’t speak out in support of BLM? Top D’s didn’t explain away mass gatherings that included riots and arson while also claiming going to church or meeting in groups of 3 or more would kill grandma? In your world the D’s aren’t trying to foment public outrage over police shootings and using BLM to do it?

    Somehow it’s only different because you imagine one started at the top and the other didn’t?

    That’s a very interesting world. How did you happen to fall into it?

    frosty (f27e97)

  140. Steven, Every state runs risk limiting audits of one sort or another. What people (Not just Dems) are objecting to are expensive audits based on no reasonable suspicion, that are run by partisans and will convince none of the Stop the Steal conspiracy theorists. Read the link I provided about the MI state Senate’s take on additional audits.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  141. Frosty, do you think the police should have served the warrant on the guy in Rob’s link with a tactical team? I don’t. I also don’t think they should have served the warrant on Taylor with a tactical squad. Our police use too much force in too many occasions. It’s a problem. Poor people have more interaction with the police and higher percentage of blacks then whites are poor. If the only group trying to do anything about it is deeply flawed then they’re still the only group trying to do anything about it.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  142. Meanwhile, in Lexington, Kentucky, the Urban-County Council just banned no knock warrants in the consolidated county.

    No knock warrants hadn’t been a problem; only four were issued over the last five years, and the mayor had to sign off on the requests before they went before a judge. The community wanted to make sure drug dealers had time to flush their stashes down the toilet!

    In wholly unrelated news, Lexington is on pace for 45 homicides this year; 2020 set the city record of 34.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597)

  143. 141. Pffft. Internet buzz, no more, no less. Especially regarding 1/6.

    Let the Royalists release it officially– what’s to hide– other than it doesn’t fit the narrative.

    We pay for it. Nancy’s formed a committee. Why hide it– other than the Keystone Kopper could be black and killed an unarmed veteran white woman poised a window frame amidst a crowd while entering an empty corridor. No, that doesn’t fit the podium protector narrative at all.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  144. Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/26/2021 @ 4:24 pm

    I can also hear a story about a black man raping a white woman and not be persuaded to join 3k because they’re “the only ones doing anything about it”. The two groups don’t differ in philosophy.

    Not only is BLM an organization based on lies, racism, and terrorism the “reform” they’ve accomplished so far has increased crime and violence impacting the poor.

    frosty (598d25)

  145. The Dana whose next name might read like the Grimes-Musk spawn’s:

    Is Lexington still Mexington* or is it the ones that reporters in Philly give 2 spits about that account for the uptick?

    urbanleftbehind (1f9e0e)

  146. One man’s opinion…

    ‘ Joe Rogan trashed President Joe Biden’s leadership capabilities while sitting down with comedian Iliza Shlesinger…

    After predicting that people in the future would view the ongoing decade as a formative one in United States history, Rogan declared that Americans are “unhinged” because, “we’re not anchored down by a real leader.”

    “We don’t really have a real leader in this country anymore,” Rogan added. “I mean, you could say Joe Biden is the president, he’s our leader, and you’d be correct on paper, but everybody knows he’s out of his mind. He’s barely hanging in there.” ‘

    https://www.mediaite.com/entertainment/joe-rogan-thrashes-as-mentally-unfit-for-office-everyone-knows-hes-out-of-his-mind-hes-barely-hanging-in-there/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  147. gooder and harder and no dinner date!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  148. …not even an Aziz Ansari “consolation prize”, which was actually good manners on the part of the girl for a one and done date in th 90s

    urbanleftbehind (1f9e0e)

  149. Memo to: Squinty McStumblebum
    Subject: Whispering

    This guy didn’t whisper policy in rambling incoherence. He spoke with strength, conviction, passion, power and intelligence with a bold confidence using an economy of language over 20 minutes that still echoes across the years.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuW4oGKzVKc

    In my lifetime this remains the single, most inspiring address by a POTUS to rally a nation forward. In Texas, no less. It would be easy to weep over your incompetence. Rather, weep for America instead. We are so much a better people than you. And the kids know it.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  150. Imperial Co. has become reliably blue and is not an “unwilling” appendage to, say the old Duncan Hunter or Kevin McCarthy’s congressional district

    It’d be a rather obvious gerrymander if Imperial County was connected to either of those districts.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  151. Weird question…did the NBA reward the cities in states that “flipped”?…Phoenix Suns, Milwaukee Bucks and Atlanta Hawks in the respective conference finals (and Philly going to a Game 7 v. Atlanta in the previous round).

    urbanleftbehind (1f9e0e)

  152. This should thrill San Diego Republicans starved for Trump rallies:

    A local TeeVee channel, UCSD, is airing Leni Riefenstahl’s ‘Triumph Of The Will.’ With English subtitles!! Can’t recall this propaganda piece ever being broadly telecast like this. But it is a powerful film, even today.

    Der Fuehrer descends from the clouds in his Fokker Trimotor– as if on an escalator– to the beautiful city of Nuremberg to be greeted by adoring fräuleins — and he looks so confident and dapper, kids; dig that cereal bowl haircut! Trump’s Trumps! So many snazzy uniforms, too; all those clean cut Aryan faces: young, healthy, blond, well fed, white, smiling, singing– swastika clad, marching to the music with shovels and axes on their shoulders, waving and holding their right hands up– only without any smartphones in them– vowing to make Germany Great Again! And the torchlight rallies– to die for! Gosh. Everyone looks so happy and devoted– and oh yes, did I mention superiorly white?! Republicans, Rejoice!

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  153. @155; are there many R’s in San Diego? It’s been a reliably blue area for the last few cycles.

    frosty (f27e97)

  154. Mr Behind asked:

    The Dana whose next name might read like the Grimes-Musk spawn’s:

    Is Lexington still Mexington* or is it the ones that reporters in Philly give 2 spits about that account for the uptick?

    While Lexington does have a lot of Mexicans, one thing to remember: a lot of them work on the horse farms, so it’s not quite the same culture you see in other cities. The city/county is 71.0% non-Hispanic white, 3.9% white Hispanic, 3.3% black Hispanic, and 11.6% non-Hispanic black.

    The city and county merged on January 1, 1974, which means that the rural areas are counted in with the city’s population and demographics. The rural areas are mostly white; it gets more ‘diverse’ once you get inside Man O’ War Boulevard.

    I had moved away from the Bluegrass State in December of 1984, and just returned to Kentucky in July of 2017. Some would say Lexington has grown; I’d say that it has metastasized.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597)

  155. Mr Behind wrote:

    Weird question…did the NBA reward the cities in states that “flipped”?…Phoenix Suns, Milwaukee Bucks and Atlanta Hawks in the respective conference finals (and Philly going to a Game 7 v. Atlanta in the previous round).

    The 76ers just plain choked. More specifically, Ben Simmons, $30 million per year Ben Simmons, number one overall draft pick in 2016 Ben Simmons, choked. He shot 34.2% from the free throw line in the series. At 6’11” and 240 lb, he chickened out on a clear dunk over 6’1″ 180 lb Trae Young, with less than 4 minutes to go in the 4th quarter of game 7, and the 76ers down two points.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597)

  156. Frosty, North County and the further corners northeast like El Cajon and Santee are still pretty deep and likely reverted from their 2018 numbers.

    urbanleftbehind (1e9509)

  157. There’s more here on Barr’s break from Trump, and McConnell played a supporting role, putting party over country…

    Barr told me that Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell had been urging him to speak out since mid-November. Publicly, McConnell had said nothing to criticize Trump’s allegations, but he told Barr that Trump’s claims were damaging to the country and to the Republican Party. Trump’s refusal to concede was complicating McConnell’s efforts to ensure that the GOP won the two runoff elections in Georgia scheduled for January 5.
    To McConnell, the road to maintaining control of the Senate was simple: Republicans needed to make the argument that with Biden soon to be in the White House, it was crucial that they have a majority in the Senate to check his power. But McConnell also believed that if he openly declared Biden the winner, Trump would be enraged and likely act to sabotage the Republican Senate campaigns in Georgia. Barr related his conversations with McConnell to me. McConnell confirms the account.

    Misfire. McConnell’s silence didn’t stop Trump from sabotaging the Georgia GOP Senate candidates. Here’s a key interchange between Trump and Barr.

    “I think you’ve noticed I haven’t been talking to you much,” Trump said to him. “I’ve been leaving you alone.”
    Barr later told others that the comment was reminiscent of a line in the movie Dr. Strangelove, in which the main character, Brigadier General Jack D. Ripper, says, “I do not avoid women, Mandrake, but I do deny them my essence.” Trump, Barr thought, was saying that he had been denying him his essence.
    Trump brought up Barr’s AP interview.
    “Did you say that?”
    “Yes,” Barr responded.
    “How the f-ck could you do this to me? Why did you say it?”
    “Because it’s true.”
    The president, livid, responded by referring to himself in the third person: “You must hate Trump. You must hate Trump.”

    This while Trump had OAN on the flatscreen and was taking counsel from sycophants like Giuliani.

    “You know, you only have five weeks, Mr. President, after an election to make legal challenges,” Barr said. “This would have taken a crackerjack team with a really coherent and disciplined strategy. Instead, you have a clown show. No self-respecting lawyer is going anywhere near it. It’s just a joke. That’s why you are where you are.”
    Interestingly, Trump didn’t argue when Barr told him that his “clown show” legal team had wasted time. In fact, he said, “You may be right about that.”

    Sorest one-term loser in history.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  158. urbanleftbehind (1e9509) — 6/27/2021 @ 8:22 am

    The U and C from UCSD stand for university of California correct? You’re thinking this is by and for R’s?

    frosty (f27e97)

  159. @95. Depend on your POV. Redcoat or rebel; Union or Confederate, etc., etc.

    My POV is American, DCSCA. I won’t speak for yours.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  160. My daughter, Miss Montagu, has lived in SD since 2014. It is politically diverse, with a strong Republican contingent from active duty and retired from the nearby naval and Marine Corp bases, but not quite as conservative as Orange County.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  161. …. are there many R’s in San Diego? It’s been a reliably blue area for the last few cycles.

    frosty (f27e97) — 6/27/2021 @ 7:33 am

    As of October 2020 (with 80.0% of eligible voters registered), there were 40.1% Democratic, 27.6% Republican, and 26.1% no party preference registered.

    In contrast, in October 2014 (with 72.4% of eligible voters registered), there were 34.6% Democratic, 32.7% Republican, and 27.2% no party preference voters registered.

    In the November 2020 general election, Democrats swept the County Board of Supervisors and the San Diego mayor’s race (both were Democrats). This link has maps showing the vote distribution.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  162. Orange County is not conservative any more. Its party registration just prior to the presidential election was 36.58% Democratic, 34.19% Republican, and 24.34% no preference.

    Biden won the OC 53/44.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  163. Paul, the number of GOP leaders (like Mitch) that know the steal claims are BS and won’t speak up for political reasons is disgusting.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  164. The last time Republicans had a registration plurality in San Diego was in 2008.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  165. Marjorie Taylor Greene wants a seat on Pelosi’s January 6 committee even as she spreads baseless claims

    GOP Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (Insurrectionist) would like to serve on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s select committee to investigate the January 6 insurrection, the Georgia freshman told CNN in an interview Thursday.

    “Sure. She should put me on the committee. That would be great,” Greene told CNN.
    ……..
    The GOP firebrand said she would be willing to accept that the FBI did not play a role in the insurrection, provided that the bureau offers evidence demonstrating its lack of involvement.

    “If they say they weren’t and show proof they weren’t, then of course I would,” Greene said.
    ……..
    Greene at times sounded sympathetic for the January 6 rioters, saying that they are confined in Washington, DC, area jails as they await trials.
    “They’re being held, some of them, in solitary confinement almost 24 hours a day in the jails here,” Greene claimed twice during the interview.

    Judges have kept in jail pending trial Capitol rioters whom they’ve deemed to be threats to public safety if they were to be released. The majority of Capitol riot defendants are not in jail at this time. ……..
    …………

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  166. reality check california hasn’t voted republican since 1988

    but yeah let’s wonder why SD and OC aren’t bucking that trend

    it’s a head scratcher

    decades of lawlessness at the border, a virtual jan6 daily, started bearing fruit a long long time ago but now it’s better cuz harris has it on blast thanks to repubs screaming insurrection and rule of law

    JF (e1156d)

  167. are there many R’s in San Diego? It’s been a reliably blue area for the last few cycles.

    Many places have been bluer the last two cycles. It happens when the GOP runs a complete assh0le.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  168. RIP Mike Gravel (91).

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  169. We elected Arnold not that long ago. My guess would be that more (former) Rs in CA are moderaatish fiscal conservatives rather than social conservatives and the national party spends a lot of time on social conservatism. It doesn’t help that Trump decided to deliberately punish CA for voting against him and so he lost the Rs congressional votes.

    Nic (896fdf)

  170. Biden won the OC 53/44.

    Trump has done lasting damage to the brand. Romney carried OC 52-46, Hillary carried OC 51-42

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  171. Schwarzenegger was a fluke-a celebrity recall candidate and he governed like a Democrat. California Republicans socially and fiscally conservative in a state that is anything but.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  172. Upper-middle-class women despise Trump, and OC is increasingly upper-middle-class.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  173. California Republicans socially and fiscally conservative in a state that is anything but.

    California is now majority Hispanic, most of whom are legal. Running an anti-immigrant candidate there is foolhardy.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  174. California is now majority Hispanic, most of whom are legal. Running an anti-immigrant candidate there is foolhardy.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/27/2021 @ 10:45 am

    Not true.

    No race or ethnic group constitutes a majority of California’s population: 39% of state residents are Latino, 36% are white, 15% are Asian or Pacific Islander, 6% are African American, fewer than 1% are Native American or Alaska Natives, and 3% are multiracial or other, according to the 2019 American Community Survey. Latinos surpassed whites as the state’s single largest ethnic group in 2014.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  175. California is now majority Hispanic, most of whom are legal.

    Nope.

    Running an anti-immigrant candidate there is foolhardy.

    Running an anti-illegal immigrant candidate is not.

    Sanctuary cities are wrong and enhance illegal immigration.

    Legal immigrants are welcome.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  176. @162. My POV is American, DCSCA. I won’t speak for yours.

    So was Lincoln’s and Davis’, Paul.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  177. @156. Suggest you revisit their reps in Congress– an mayors and such; past and present; lots of Rs- and mostly zealous nut bags. Lots or retired military around these parts, too.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  178. A story on ESPN today covered how black hammer thrower Gwen Berry was bothered that the National Anthem got played (as it regularly had been at the end of the day) at the exact time that she was receiving her bronze medal….she fidgeted and turned her back while the gold and silver medalists stood respectfully with their hands across their hearts. Yes, Berry is an “activist” and none of this is especially unexpected…and everyone is free to make statements as they want….but it’s just another sad reminder of how little brings us together….and how politics continues to rip us apart. I don’t know Ms. Berry…but by her published comments, she doesn’t seem to have any substantive ideas that will actually fix….when it comes down to it…..very complex, nuanced problems that activists tend to over simplify to “systemic racism”.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  179. 167.The last time Republicans had a registration plurality in San Diego was in 2008.

    You best check the history of who has actually won and hold ofice– and who keeps wining: Cunningham, the Duncan Hunter nut bags, Issa– and of course the mayors, bi and small.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  180. @161. The point is it was televised in a way to reach a significantly larger audience– which is quite unusual for that particular piece of propaganda.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  181. So was Lincoln’s and Davis’, Paul.

    Not Davis.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  182. @181. Monkey see, monkey do: she’d get more attention if she’d just raised her fist.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  183. @184. Might wanna revisit the text of the CSA Constitution, Paul–the one on his side.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  184. @169. it’s a head scratcher

    Except it’s not.

    Demographics.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  185. In the guise of “owning the libs” Trump raised taxes on every Republican in California.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  186. Mr thulhu wrote:

    In the guise of “owning the libs” Trump raised taxes on every Republican in California.

    He did? I remember our esteemed host’s complaint at the time that the tax deal dropped the deductibility of state and local taxes, and that could have been a tax increase on people in high tax states like California and New York . . . if they itemized deductions!

    Are you stating that all Republicans in the Pyrite State itemized deductions, or was there another point I have missed?

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597)

  187. 170. Many places have been bluer the last two cycles. It happens when the GOP runs a complete assh0le.

    Except the GOP asses keep winning: like Randy Duke Cuningham, Duncan Hunter Sr., and Duncan Hunter Jr.,— and Issa.

    The family has lived in the SD area 27 years and through gerrymandering and redistricting, etc.,it has never been a blue region. The demographics keep it chiefly red-[ lots of military, active and retire in the area… and plenty of rural rednecks, too] -until they die of and illegals take root in sanctuary municipalities and drop anchor babies. Only takes 18 years to grow a crop of voters. Rivals cicadas.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  188. Then what the hey are you complaining about? Maybe some pander on the part of the local UC/PBS station keeps the “nuts” in town a generation longer.

    urbanleftbehind (1e9509)

  189. @188. The Sacramento Dems do, too– the state gasoline tax is set to go up again on July 1st; and we’re already paying $5/gallon for Shell regular, locally. SDG&E electric rates keep climbing even as service interruptions increase along with astronomical water rates as the climate has shifted unfavorably.

    People and businesses are increasingly leaving the ‘Golden State’ as it costs them too much gold to live in a state where daily living conditions continue to deteriorate.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  190. “Are you stating that all Republicans in the Pyrite State itemized deductions, or was there another point I have missed?”

    I misremembered the details. About 1 million CA residents were affected, but concentrated in high income areas like Orange County. This report says about 1/3 were affected: https://www.ocregister.com/2019/05/03/trumps-tax-cut-turns-politics-on-its-head-in-southern-california/

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  191. And haven’t illegals been taking root there since probably at least the backdate of the’65 Kennedy laws? Some of them and their progeny must have “graduated” to R or it would have flipped sooner…unless SD alone (apart from rest of CA) rivals TX, FL and TN for internal right-leaning domestic migration that cancels out immigration.

    urbanleftbehind (1e9509)

  192. @191. It’s just a highly unusual piece to broadcast to the general public. Quite rare. But it certainly made a few groups munching pretzels und beer at the club house quite thrilled– especially to see their leader on HDTV!

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  193. @194. The waves have grown larger I ree yers while the crackdown at the border– and deportation– has grown lax while he number of sanctuary cities has grown, whivch I an added incentive to make run for the border. Once in- they get access to the humanitarian freebees. It’s essentially a slow-motion invasion.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  194. I’ve been told again and again that there was no evidence of voter fraud in any of the states during 2020 presidential race.

    1. States and Counties Certified results.
    They did. There were some chain of custody issues, polling stations stayed open past closing time etc maybe minor stuff, but no deep audit was performed before certification. Most of it was “take our word for it”. Sure. But, as the man said, “trust but verify”.

    2. Courts found no evidence. Sure. There usually is not enough evidence for tax fraud until a forensic audit has been completed either.

    2020 was the first Presidential/ National election we have done with large windows to vote, with large scale mail in, drop box balloting etc.
    For some reason people are called Un-American Trumpsters for wanting forensic audits. The labelling, shaming, stonewalling makes me wonder what they are hiding. Maybe nothing, but they are acting like corrupt bureaucrats do

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  195. @194. Sorry ubl, keyboard keeps freezing- [Microsoft is dumps more ads ;-)] The waves have grown larger in recent years while the crackdown at the border– and deportation– has grown lax while the number of sanctuary cities has grown, which is an added incentive to make the run for the border. Once in- they get access to the humanitarian freebees. It’s a hug stress on city and state resources. It’s essentially a slow-motion invasion.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  196. @184. Might wanna revisit the text of the CSA Constitution, Paul–the one on his side.

    Davis chose to lead a country that was not the United States of America, preferring to align with states that were keeping millions of human beings as personal chattel with no rights. He was no American.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  197. @172. We elected Arnold not that long ago…

    Name recognition: Reaganoptics.

    If memory serves, the Davis recall was ignited by the massive jump in CA automobile registration fees he backed on his watch. People were fed up. It was the final straw.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  198. @199. Revisit the text of the CSA Constitution. He was as ‘American’ as Lincoln. Again depends on your POV.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  199. Rip Murdock (2975ef) — 6/27/2021 @ 10:50 am

    You are correct. I had referred to a site that confused plurality with majority. Still the 39.3% (2018 Wikipedia) that is Hispanic is larger than any other group and increasingly controls statewide elections. For the GOP to be attacking them is suicidal. The time to stem the tide is (decades) past. Yet some of the GOP has not yet got the message.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  200. I forgot this one.
    “The Republican Board of XYZ said no fraud”
    Party is immaterial. The real question is the quality of the audit, not party affiliation

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  201. “For some reason people are called Un-American Trumpsters for wanting forensic audits. The labelling, shaming, stonewalling makes me wonder what they are hiding. Maybe nothing, but they are acting like corrupt bureaucrats do”

    Here are the results of the Arizona’s state mandated audit for Maricopa county, which happened immediately after the election: https://azsos.gov/sites/default/files/2020_General_Maricopa_Hand_Count.pdf

    No discrepencies were found by the Hand Count Audit Boards.

    So, tell me, why was another needed? Especially the clown show audit that’s happening now?

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  202. Running an anti-illegal immigrant candidate is not.

    Yes, it is. The ship has sailed. At best you can argue about shutting the door. All practical politicians have made their peace; only the isolated, the clueless and the loudmouth jackanapes are still talking about deporting the illegals. It’s the new “Lost Cause.” Some of them whistle “Dixie.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  203. The last time Republicans had a registration plurality in San Diego was in 2008.

    You confuse city with county, I think. And even then, the current mayor is a Republican.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  204. Only takes 18 years to grow a crop of voters. Rivals cicadas.

    As I said, “Dixie.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  205. And haven’t illegals been taking root there since probably at least the backdate of the’65 Kennedy laws?

    Some Hispanic families predate the state. In NM, most Hispanic families predate the state. There is very little illegal immigration into New Mexico (at least not directly), primarily due to wide stretches of desert to cross. Finding day workers here is actually hard.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  206. So, tell me, why was another needed? Especially the clown show audit that’s happening now?

    Because they don’t trust the people who did the count and recount. Now, I think that they will find the same answer –and they are cynically using it to raise money — but suppose they actually DID find a big discrepancy (and it stood up to review)? What then?

    The People have a right to inspect the State’s count. You may argue that it’s a waste of time, but it’s not YOUR time.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  207. You confuse city with county, I think. And even then, the current mayor is a Republican.

    I cited voter registration data from the State Secretary of State which is at the county level, I was not confused.

    And the mayor of San Diego is a Democrat.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  208. And a gay Democrat at that (not that there is anything wrong with that).

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  209. And, you are right there, too. Faulconer was mayor until last year though.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  210. “Now, I think that they will find the same answer –and they are cynically using it to raise money — but suppose they actually DID find a big discrepancy (and it stood up to review)?”

    It’s literally impossible for any discrepancy found by the current AZ audit to stand up to review. The auditors have broken chain of custody, brought blue pens into the audit area (only red pens should be used, to prevent tampering), connected servers to external internet, shipped ballots out of state.

    Davethulhu (13b53b)

  211. @212-
    That shows how much the SD city electorate changed over four years.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  212. From 1992 to 2020, the GOP won every election save one* for mayor of San Diego, and the one they lost was to a guy who resigned over sexual harassment charges. Faulconer won the special election following, and won re-election.

    ——
    *Maybe two, depending on how you view the chaotic write-in campaign of 2004..

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  213. Judging anything in CA by 2020 (or even 2016) will given unreliable answers. Trump was a particularly terrible candidate for California and the GOP there is at rock bottom as a result. They will gain seats in 2022, although it will be some time before they are competitive in the state at large.

    It would really really help if they could, like, try out some of the obvious issues that exist, in which the Democrats have been TERRIBLE. The Moonbeam Express. Building mass transit in Los Angeles (which makes much more sense than a $100 billion train from nowhere to nowhere). Backing development as the answer to high housing costs. Backing desalinization and water storage in the desert, taking on the toad-huggers directly. Even desert solar is being stopped by radical greenists.

    But no. All they can do is in-fight over Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  214. The governor is going to pay off the rents for people who didn’t pay them during the pandemic. Many of them could have, but figured they wouldn’t have to, or that they’d just move at the end. You would think that the schmucks who play the game by the rules might look for some champions. I wonder if they will find them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  215. Not in the current crop of Trump supporting candidates running in the recall ( and that includes Faulconer). Trump will be wrapped around their necks.

    Rip Murdock (2975ef)

  216. Biden-Harris boat anchors are selling off the charts…

    Limited stock, hurry and get yours today!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  217. Illegal immigration is a winning issue. Respecting our sovereignty and border rights is a winning issue. Anyone pretending otherwise needs to get out of their bubble.

    NJRob (01231a)

  218. @205. Yes, it is. The ship has sailed.

    Not really. Good citizens want to abide by the law and at least on this form, ‘law and order’is repeatedly championed. Legal immigration is welcomed, through legal points of entry. ‘Breaking and entering’ the U.S. illegally is simply not being stringently enforced. If it was your house, you’d call a cop– or drive them off with a .44 caliber pointed stick. Though you may be right in that unless the anchor babies have taken root and registered, the invasion plan is set. The problem has filtered down to the ‘local level’ and as long as municipalities declare themselves ‘sanctuary cities’ for multiple reasons- financial/business/political/ethnic, etc.,– it will continue to grow worse. No border patroller or local copper wans to be the person who Ashli Babbitt’s an illegal at the crossing and leave their body hanging on the fence. But it would sent a stronger signal than Pantssuit Queenie crying ‘don’t come’ after advocating just the opposite for ages.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  219. 199. Except he was. Read the CSA Constitution.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  220. 199. Except he was. Read the CSA Constitution.

    Irrelevant, like David French irrelevant, no?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  221. The real question is the quality of the audit, not party affiliation.

    True.

    The CEO of a Florida-based firm chosen to conduct the review of Maricopa County’s election results appeared in a conspiracy theorist film riddled with falsehoods about the 2020 election and directed by a man whose previous work claimed aliens were behind 9/11.

    Cyber Ninjas CEO Doug Logan had previously been speculated to be the voice behind “Anon,” in the film “The Deep Rig,” which was confirmed at the Saturday premiere of the film when he was revealed to be the voice of the anonymous person mid-way through the movie. “The Deep Rig” seeks to prove that the 2020 presidential election was rigged against Donald Trump, a claim that the former president and many of his supporters have echoed despite a total lack of evidence.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  222. @223. Hardly.

    And, of course, French is irrelevant. But if you want to equate him w/a losing side, fine by me. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  223. I have no problem with a cold blooded murderer spending 20 years in prison.

    frosty (f27e97) — 6/26/2021 @ 7:43 am

    I wouldn’t either if that’s what he was convicted of.

    He was convicted of depraved indifference. And also for felony murder (the felony being assault)

    He was never charged with premeditated murder, although you could think so. But for him to do so – to kill George Floyd on purpose (unless he was overcome by an emotion of anger or hatred), he’d have to be even more stupid than he would have to be to think that he wasn’t killing him.

    The man had no pulse and still he continued. What was he waiting for? He was being videotaped. He couldn’t think that his union was going to save him in these circumstances. So what was gong to through his mind? Derek Chauvin says that some information (probably from a pre-sentencing interview) will be released shortly that will give the family of George Floyd some answers. What’s the reason for being so indirect? Ti preserve an appeal on the grounds of innocence?

    The standard sentence for the crime(s) he was convicted of (it’s one action – he gets sentenced only once no matter in how many different ways he could be guilty of similar crimes) is 12 1/2 years. [150 months) The prosecution asked for 30 years; the defense asked for probation. The judge added 10 years to the sentence as an enhancement. He said he wasn’t doing it to send a message or because of public opinion, but because Derek Chauvin abused a position of trust and because of the cruelty he showed.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  224. 160.

    Interestingly, Trump didn’t argue when Barr told him that his “clown show” legal team had wasted time. In fact, he said, “You may be right about that.”

    Because that was an argument about tactics, not whether his claims had merit.

    Of course it was a “clown show” because there was no genuine case.

    Interestingly, both parties are ignoring the chief danger from the other. The danger from Democrats is that they could change the law to make cheating possible, mainly through ballot harvesting and election day registration combined with no proof of being a real person; and the danger from Republicans is that they could put in place election officials who would not give an honest count or who would accept bad challenges.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  225. 205. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/27/2021 @ 12:29 pm

    and the loudmouth jackanapes are still talking about deporting the illegals. It’s the new “Lost Cause.” Some of them whistle “Dixie.”

    Have they at least stopped talking about abolishing birthright citizenship? (tp make more people illegal)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  226. Contradictory polls?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/us/politics/progressives-black-latino-voters.html

    The limited public polling available showed nuanced opinions among voters of color on policing. A poll conducted for the Manhattan Institute, a conservative think tank, found that just 17 percent of Black voters and 18 percent of Latinos wanted to decrease the number of police officers in their neighborhoods. But 62 percent of Black voters and 49 percent of Latino voters said they supported “defunding” the New York Police Department and spending the money on social workers instead, the poll found.

    Other surveys found that Black and Latino voters were more likely than white voters to say that the number of uniformed police officers should be increased in the subways and that they felt unsafe from crime in their neighborhoods. ….

    So 62 percent of Black voters and 49 percent of Latino voters said they supported “defunding” the police, but only 17% wanted to reduce the number oof police in their neighborhoods.

    Is it that people answered yes to a compound question that included defunding the police when what they wanted to do was agree that more social workers should be hired, or is it that they think that too many cops are doing useless things, or are working in the wrong places?? Or they don;t know what the word “defund” means?

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  227. Mr Montagu wrote:

    Might wanna revisit the text of the CSA Constitution, Paul–the one on his side.

    Davis chose to lead a country that was not the United States of America, preferring to align with states that were keeping millions of human beings as personal chattel with no rights. He was no American.

    By that definition, neither George Washington, nor Thomas Jefferson, nor James Madison, nor James Monroe, nor Andrew Jackson . . . .

    Do I really need to go on with the list?

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597)

  228. I mean, they weren’t, until they were. Davis wasn’t an American because rather than deal with the fact that he lived in a democratic republic and public opinion was against the practice he preferred to keep in place and so could, possibly, choose to end that practice, he decided to enter into rebellion against the US.

    Nic (896fdf)

  229. Davis chose to lead a country that was not the United States of America, preferring to align with states that were keeping millions of human beings as personal chattel with no rights. He was no American.

    Lincoln, too. He also aligned himself with slave states. Four, anyway. Kentucky, Missouri, Delaware, and Maryland. Which, not having seceded, were not covered by the Emancipation Proclamation, and it was up to their state laws whether they maintained slavery. Until the ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment on St. Nicholas Day, 1865. (In case you wondered why people give out candy on that day.) (Don’t quote me on the candy part.)

    Treason don’t need no reason to be treason. It could just be because “short bus people” listened to a speech by a perambulating jack-o’-lantern.

    nk (1d9030)

  230. BTW,
    Generalissimo Francisco Franco Donald Trump is still not the President.

    nk (1d9030)

  231. @233. Neither is Reagan.

    Bur has The Donald he paid any rent lately? 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  232. @232. It could just be because “short bus people” listened to a speech by a perambulating jack-o’-lantern

    “Voodoo Economics.” 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  233. nk (1d9030) — 6/27/2021 @ 5:55 pm

    Donald Trump is still not the President.

    He did weigh in (as an expert) on the Florida building collapse, on Newsmax:

    https://nypost.com/2021/06/25/lawsuits-were-filed-about-cracks-in-collapsed-florida-condo-report

    …Meanwhile, former President Trump weighed in on the disaster by citing his experience as a builder.

    “It’s a very interesting thing because I built a lot of concrete frames and I looked at the frame — it’s a very light frame,” Trump told Newsmax.

    “I don’t know if you guys recognize that. Did you see how thin those slabs are and how thin those columns are? And you look at it and our former great first lady said, ‘That looks like a very weak building.’

    “Well it was a very weak building, but when you look at that tin floor plate, and you look at that, those things, those little columns. It was ended when it crumbled — it became almost dust. There was some bad work going on … that’s not a building people want to live in, especially in a place with hurricanes and other things,” he said.

    The former president added: “That was a structurally deficient building, in my opinion.”

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  234. Melania is an expert witness, too?

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  235. Melania is an expert witness, too?

    Who isn’t these days, Sammy?

    But, yes, I suspect he’s right. I suspect there was a lot of skimping and cost-cutting in the construction of that building for it to collapse like that. And we can talk about building codes, their enforcement, and the people supposed to enforce them, some time, too.

    nk (1d9030)

  236. Davis wasn’t an American because rather than deal with the fact that he lived in a democratic republic and public opinion was against the practice he preferred to keep in place and so could, possibly, choose to end that practice, he decided to enter into rebellion against the US.

    Nic (896fdf) — 6/27/2021 @ 5:09 pm

    Except most Union soldiers, with the exception of a few northeasterners, didn’t volunteer to fight to free slaves. They signed up to bring the Union back together. Soldiers in the Midwest states in particular couldn’t have given a rip for southern slaves, and the Emancipation Proclamation actually ended up costing Lincoln support with them–in fact, the Copperhead Democrats were almost all from Midwest states. Nor was Lincoln elected because he wanted to free the slaves. Lincoln would have been happy to ship every slave back to Africa if it would have prevented Civil War. He simply recognized that, after the Kansas-Nebraska Act, that the US would either be a country that tolerated slavery throughout the whole country, or would have to end it entirely.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  237. @FWO@239 All true. Never the less, the south acted on the fear that they might be outvoted on slavery and rather than deal with the possibility of losing those votes, they rebelled against the US. Bad Americans and lousy at democracy.

    Nic (896fdf)

  238. @239. Except he was. Simply a matter of POV; such is the character of civil conflict; one fellas terrorist is another fellas freedom fighter. Ask a Redcoat. Or a Vietnamese. Or a Republican 😉 Peruse the Confederate States of America Constitution.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  239. The building has a twin, built one year later. But it probably has 10 to 15 years or more till it collapses.

    It has been better maintained and the corrosion may be related to maintenance – it’s the amount of salt water and salt in the air that affects the rate and if they seal off cracks less can affect it.

    Of course, there’s the sinking, which should be about the same. The part of the building that
    collapsed faced the ocean.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  240. 240. Nic (896fdf) — 6/27/2021 @ 10:00 pm

    Never the less, the south acted on the fear that they might be outvoted on slavery and rather than deal with the possibility of losing those votes, they rebelled against the US. Bad Americans and lousy at democracy.

    The south acted on the fear that they might be outvoted on everything else because of slavery – it was in no immediate danger – the Republicans were not even going to stop the interstate trade in slaves – and more immediately, that its politicians could never hope to hold national office.

    For non politicians, it became impossible to dispute the merits of secession any more than it had been possible for the past 35 years and more to dispute the merits of slavery.

    The people who started it – the Fire-Eaters – did not benefit very much from secession. The more term politicians managed to occupy the newly created political offices created by secession.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  241. Nic wrote:

    I mean, they weren’t, until they were. Davis wasn’t an American because rather than deal with the fact that he lived in a democratic republic and public opinion was against the practice he preferred to keep in place and so could, possibly, choose to end that practice, he decided to enter into rebellion against the US.

    That’s just it: public opinion was for the maintenance of slavery, in several states.

    South Carolina had threatened to secede in 1833 over tariffs people in the Palmetto State believed harmful to them. Americans in the first half of the 19th century were more loyal to their states than to the country, hardly a surprise in a time when few people were able to travel more than fifty miles from their homes.

    President Lincoln, along with most people, did not believe that blacks were, or should be, the legal equals of whites, and more than most men thought that women should be allowed to vote. Trying to hold 19th century people to 21st century standards is intellectually simplistic.

    June is “Pride Month.” Can you imagine what Americans of 1950, the mid 20th century, would have thought of that?

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597)

  242. Our Windy City barrister wrote:

    But, yes, I suspect he’s right. I suspect there was a lot of skimping and cost-cutting in the construction of that building for it to collapse like that. And we can talk about building codes, their enforcement, and the people supposed to enforce them, some time, too.

    I’m the guy here who spent his career in concrete construction and production, and I’ve seen it all. In a salt air environment, ordinary rebar was used, not the epoxy coated rebar used in bridges today. Non-chloride water reducers for concrete existed in 1981, but they were both more expensive and less efficient than chloride based water reducers; did the concrete plant use the wrong material to save money?

    Where was the aggregate for the concrete stored? In the salt heavy air on the humid Florida coast, salts can settle on sand and stone piles, adding chlorides to the mix.

    During the concrete pours, was excess water added to the mix; contractors and pump operators love higher slumps (wetter mixes), and pumping up twelve stories will push pump operators to ask for more water. Contractors will demand that the testing agents cast their test cylinders right away, and then, after they get their samples, add twenty gallons of water to the mix! (Under ASTM specifications, samples for casting test cylinders are supposed to be taken from two separate samples, consolidated together, from a couple of midpoints during discharge. I have never, and I mean never, seen this done in practice.)

    How old was the concrete when placed? A slight backup, and you can have trucks sitting on the jobsite for an hour. The loads get ‘retempered,’ meaning more water added, before the trucks start to unload. How hot were the days on which the concrete is poured? Concrete loses slump more quickly the higher the temperature of the concrete and of the air.

    I’ve seen almost every trick in the very much unpublished book that gets used on construction sites, and almost all of them decrease the quality of concrete.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597)

  243. https://thefederalist.com/2021/06/25/thanks-to-supreme-court-cowardice-the-government-is-still-persecuting-jack-phillips-for-being-a-christian/

    The constant abuse and targeting Christians for discrimination and harassment must end.

    It’s disgraceful the Supreme Court hasn’t ruled forcefully in enforcing the 1st Amendment and our right to worship the Lord freely.

    NJRob (01231a)

  244. Because this a custom cake and not an off the shelf cake it looks like compelled speech. However, the fact that it’s a simple request (cake color and frosting) that would require little artistic ability to complete greatly diminishes that argument.

    I’m OK with requiring businesses open to the public to serve the public even if the owner, or person behind the counter has religious objections to gays, miscegenation, women conducting business, birth control, alcohol, or whatever.

    I’m not OK with compelled speech.

    It looks like they’re trying to find exactly where that line will be with this guy.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  245. By that definition, neither George Washington, nor Thomas Jefferson, nor James Madison, nor James Monroe, nor Andrew Jackson . . . .

    And none of them decided to lead a group of states that weren’t the United States of America, which is why they were Americans.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  246. Time123

    The guy constantly persecuting him should lose his law license. The jerk asked for a cake with specific specifications, blue on the inside, pink on the outside or some such. Mr Philips agreed to make it. That ticked the anti-Christian bigot off, so the bigot then said it was a transsexual cake symbolizing his transition and only then did Mr Philips refuse.

    This was a clear attack on Mr Philips religious beliefs and that the Colorado government continues to support this type of harassment speaks volumes on how dangerous Colorado’s government has become to Christians.

    NJRob (01231a)

  247. Why can’t Liz Cheney just shut up, stop bringing up this “stolen” election business and move on.

    “We didn’t lose. We didn’t lose.”

    “It was rigged. We won the election in a landslide. You know it, I know it, and you know who else knows it? The fake news knows it.”

    “You have to look back. We won the election in 2020.”

    “We’ll never stop fighting for the true results of this election, whether it’s Democrats or RINOs who stand in our way.”

    Liz Cheney Donald J. Trump, putative and cult leader of the GOP, June 26,2021

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  248. Er, Liz Cheney

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  249. the Colorado government continues to support this type of harassment speaks volumes on how dangerous Colorado’s government has become to Christians.

    Tourism. The hospitality industry. Here’s some numbers from the horse’s mouth, the Colorado Office of Economic Development & International Trade. Billions and billions of dollars to the economy and to the tax coffers, and 7.7% of the nation’s tourism jobs. And the avant garde travel a lot.

    I knew this back in the Romer v. Evans days. Aspen, a place I am familiar with, for only one example, would be an abandoned Army training base for ski troops without tourism.

    nk (1d9030)

  250. “It’s disgraceful the Supreme Court hasn’t ruled forcefully in enforcing the 1st Amendment and our right to worship the Lord freely.”

    The current case certainly looks like the result of the Court punting on the key questions from the original case. It’s disappointing in that it appears staged whereas the original case involving gay marriage appeared more spontaneous.

    Still returning to the original legal question, I’m curious Rob, what vendor or service provider would you say could not discriminate against a gay couple seeking to celebrate their marriage…..the limo driver, the jeweler, hairstylists, the reception hall scheduler, the honeymoon travel agent….can they all deny service because of their religious objection to civil gay marriage? It seems like a bit of a slippery slope as many of these providers have a similar argument of being expressive speech….it becomes somewhat of an arbitrary question of degree. Remember, the actual design of the cake was never discussed. Phillip’s was arguing that a custom cake compelled him to participate in and endorse an activity that he said was against his religion. That always seemed to me a bit of a stretch. Unlike a videographer who is enmeshed in a celebration, the baker, absent setup, is far removed.

    It also strikes me odd framing this as “worshipping the Lord”. It seems to lack the basics of Christian love and charity as I understand it. But it does seem consistent with politicizing everything…..

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  251. He’s for sure a jerk. But it’s an interesting question about where being open to the public stops and compelled speech begins. The fact that Phillips was only unwilling when he found out what it was for diminishes his claim that it’s an artistic expression and this compelled speech and makes it look more like he just doesn’t like gay people.

    This feels similar to the story from few years back about Muslim cap drivers who didn’t want to transport Drunk people because drinking was against their faith. IIRC their employer was able. To compel them to do that.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  252. The Supreme Court has been punting since Heart of Atlanta Motel vs. U.S. (1964), a case clearly involving a public accommodation, by letting local yokels since then define anything they wanted as a “public accommodation”, a thing which had a very narrow meaning in American jurisprudence and the common law.

    But seriously, what is the religious or moral component of transwhatever? That’s the part I don’t get in this instance.

    nk (1d9030)

  253. https://campusreform.org/article?id=17702

    A recording of the “Anti-Racist Rhetoric & Pedagogies” workshop – which was one of nine professional development workshops UO offered to staff and graduate students during Spring 2021 – was obtained by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) and released on Tuesday.

    “You do not need to worry about repercussions at any degree in the university if you are responding to a student who is using problematic language in the classroom,” said Kasey Woody, one of the workshop leaders.

    Kelli Pyron Alvarez, another leader, claimed that the Supreme Court has granted teachers this right.

    “The Supreme Court has actually upheld that hate speech, derogatory speech, any of the -isms do not apply in the classroom because they do not foster a productive learning environment. And so, as instructors we can tell our students: ‘No, you do not have the right to say that. Stop talking right now,’ right?” she said.

    Pyron Alvarez, who teaches introductory English courses, said that she calls out students who use derogatory remarks, hate speech, and “white supremacist ideas or sources” in writing or class comments. If they continue after being called out, she says it is appropriate to “report them.”

    And as usual, conservative speech is the only speech censored.

    NJRob (783474)

  254. It’s anti-Christian bigotry. Never happens elsewhere.

    And no one needs to affirm your lifestyle.

    Homosexual unions are not marriage no matter how the former Justice speaketh with a forked tongue.

    NJRob (783474)

  255. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/national-archives-rotunda-structural-racism

    Another gift from Obama. This one says promoting our founding and our founding documents is racist and must be stopped.

    With the way the left wants to destroy history, how are they any different from the Taliban or Soviets?

    NJRob (a7e6d2)

  256. nk: “by letting local yokels since then define anything they wanted as a “public accommodation”,”

    Yeah under English common law, a public accommodation was one where the consumers had little or no choice…like in a monopoly…..however, “just go somewhere else” might be fine, if all things are equal….which in some cases they’re not. Here with cake, one would think there would be room for being a “Christian baker only”….but it still seems somewhat selective….does Phillips actually inquire with wedding cake customers about previous divorces, premarital sex, abortions, open marriages….or is he somewhat selective on his application of what he is endorsing? Hey, a guy still needs to make a buck, right?

    “But seriously, what is the religious or moral component of transwhatever?”

    Well, he also doesn’t do cakes for Halloween celebrations so this is a hard-core religiosity. Maybe a solution for Mr. Phillips is to close the door to the public and only make cakes by private contract….you know….for only the right kind of people that he can pre-screen. However, instead he appears to want to have his cake and eat it too. Seinfeld gave us the soup nazi….Colorado gives us the cake nazi….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  257. In Shakespeare’s day, all the female roles were played by men dressed up as women. Because actress was an immoral pursuit for women. It’s still the case in Afghanistan. And in traditional kabuki. Just give the dog its bone!

    nk (1d9030)

  258. AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 6/28/2021 @ 7:02 am

    Using the rules we’ve established for social media all of them could. We’ve already established that no business can be forced to promote speech it doesn’t agree with because private property rights are absolute.

    This guy can go to another baker and if there are no other bakers no one is preventing him from baking his own cake.

    frosty (f27e97)

  259. does Phillips actually inquire with wedding cake customers about previous divorces, premarital sex, abortions, open marriages….or is he somewhat selective on his application of what he is endorsing?

    I’m pretty sure it is the content of the cake not the person that is at issue, but hey, maybe you are a cake nazi if you refuse to make a chopped up baby parts cake?

    BuDuh (7bca93)

  260. IIRC, nobody asked the Soup Nazi to make the soup to their preference.

    BuDuh (7bca93)

  261. AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 6/28/2021 @ 7:44 am

    does Phillips actually inquire with wedding cake customers

    Based on the information I’ve seen it’s clear that he does not. Phillips was willing to bake the cake until the guy made a point of telling him it was an intentional setup. But you’re always free to make up your own facts.

    only make cakes by private contract

    I’m not sure what you think private contract is because what you’ve described isn’t a real thing. Maybe you’re suggesting he just do business under the table. But it sounds like you’re in favor of someone being forced into a contract or all contracts being defined by the state. Congratulations you’re in favor of fascism.

    frosty (f27e97)

  262. Frosty, Property rights aren’t absolute and I don’t think anyone has seriously asserted they are.

    But refusing service to an individual based on their behavior isn’t the same as denying service to a group of people based on an immutable trait.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  263. Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/28/2021 @ 8:22 am

    Property rights aren’t absolute and I don’t think anyone has seriously asserted they are.

    There was a little sarcasm there but my point is still valid and you’re response is only true in the extreme. The picking and choosing and the logic around these issues isn’t consistent. In fact, it’s openly contradictory and consists of comments like this that make a distinction that doesn’t exist. The single most common response supporting social media censorship falls back on private property arguments.

    immutable trait

    I’m not sure what immutable trait you’re talking about. This current case was based on a request to celebrate a transition. That would be the opposite of immutable.

    frosty (f27e97)

  264. Also, this doesn’t look like discrimination against Christians to me. If this guy’s suppliers refused to sell him sugar because their don’t like Christians or something similar then that would be discrimination.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  265. Frosty, I think property rights should be strong and allow you to refuse service to individuals based on a large number of factors. So I think Twitter kicking Donald Trump off for things he’s done or said is their right and should be protected even if I think their reasoning is flawed.

    In this case the baker is refusing service to a class of people based on their gender identity.

    That’s what I see as the difference.

    The question of Gender is a choice or an immutable trait is contested but it seems like the people of Colorado have have made their decision as expressed by their elected officials.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  266. “I’m pretty sure it is the content of the cake not the person that is at issue”

    You may want to re-read the details of Masterpiece Cakeshop…the specifics of a custom cake were never discussed. Phillips would not create any custom cake for the celebration of a gay marriage

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  267. Involuntary servitude. Thirteenth Amendment. The Heart of Atlanta court dismissed with a wave of its pinky ring as not applying in a public accommodation case. But they were talking about an inn on the King’s highway — a motel next to an interstate highway — clearly a public accommodation since the time of Herod. Not cakes made to order.

    nk (1d9030)

  268. Phillips would not create any custom cake for the celebration of a gay marriage

    Indeed. The cake would have to represent a gay wedding. The gays weren’t refused buying the cakes that he offered.

    How far does this go? Should Phillips be mandated to make an abortion cake?

    BuDuh (12caa4)

  269. How about a cake to celebrate Jihad?

    BuDuh (12caa4)

  270. holiday observances, weddings, specific celebrations are all behaviors

    nobody is genetically wired to have them

    JF (e1156d)

  271. Buuh and AJ

    To me the question is about where making the cake because an honest expression of speech.

    Refusing to sell a standard order to a gay/black/Christian person seems like unlawful discrimination. Refusing to create an artistic message you disagree with seems like protected speech.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  272. “President Lincoln, along with most people, did not believe that blacks were, or should be, the legal equals of whites”

    It is certainly possible to find Lincoln quotes that support such a view, from early in his career. I think you will get a more accurate understanding of Lincoln’s thinking after he became president if you read this account of the passage of the 13th Amendment.

    President Lincoln had had concerns that the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 might be reversed or found invalid by the judiciary after the war.[40] He saw constitutional amendment as a more permanent solution.[41][42] He had remained outwardly neutral on the amendment because he considered it politically too dangerous.[43] Nonetheless, Lincoln’s 1864 election platform resolved to abolish slavery by constitutional amendment.[44][45] After winning reelection in the election of 1864, Lincoln made the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment his top legislative priority. He began with his efforts in Congress during its “lame duck” session, in which many members of Congress had already seen their successors elected; most would be concerned about unemployment and lack of income, and none needed to fear the electoral consequences of cooperation.[46][47] Popular support for the amendment mounted and Lincoln urged Congress on in his December 6, 1864 State of the Union Address: “there is only a question of time as to when the proposed amendment will go to the States for their action. And as it is to so go, at all events, may we not agree that the sooner the better?”[48]

    Lincoln instructed Secretary of State William H. Seward, Representative John B. Alley and others to procure votes by any means necessary, and they promised government posts and campaign contributions to outgoing Democrats willing to switch sides.[49][50] Seward had a large fund for direct bribes. Ashley, who reintroduced the measure into the House, also lobbied several Democrats to vote in favor of the measure.[51] Representative Thaddeus Stevens later commented that “the greatest measure of the nineteenth century was passed by corruption aided and abetted by the purest man in America”; however, Lincoln’s precise role in making deals for votes remains unknown

    Lincoln was a supremely practical politician, who understood that he could not get too far ahead of his people. He opposed slavery all his life, and wanted to end it, eventually. Like some freed blacks, he considered returning blacks to Africa, as had already been done by a charity in what is now Liberia. (The British did something similar in Sierra Leone.)

    He hoped limiting slavery could be done peacefully, as had happened with the Northwest Ordinance, and abolishing it gradually, as had happened in all the Northern states.

    Would he have favored the 14th Amendment had he lived to see it proposed? I think so.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  273. Correction:

    For non politicians, it became impossible to dispute the merits of secession any more than it had been possible for the past 35 years and more to dispute the merits of slavery.

    This would be better as “for the past 25 years” – the turning point was between about 1832 and 1835.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  274. The judge ruled that the order wasn’t a set-up but it was.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  275. “How about a cake to celebrate Jihad?”

    Again, Phillips was not asked to inscribe or decorate a cake with rainbows or grooms bending each other over. I agree with Time, if there was a clear issue over artistic expression, that’s one thing….here, Phillips wanted control over what type of celebration could use his custom cake…..and it was aimed specifically at gay people….who Colorado was trying to protect against discrimination. The Court gave a strong signal that that wasn’t going to work.

    Turning your hypothetical around, would Phillips be legally justified in denying his custom cake service to Muslims…generally…..because of differences in religious doctrine and the potential that they support jihad?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  276. NJRob is gonna hate this Supreme Court non-decision. I’m surprised they couldn’t scare up four votes among Barrett, Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, or Kavanaugh.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  277. Correction-Thomas and Alito said they would hear the case.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  278. 248.By that definition, neither George Washington, nor Thomas Jefferson, nor James Madison, nor James Monroe, nor Andrew Jackson . . . . And none of them decided to lead a group of states that weren’t the United States of America, which is why they were Americans.

    In fact, they were British subjects by birth, not “Americans” having all been born in British governed colonies. And from the Royalists POV, as insurrectionists [surprise!] instigated and participated in rebellion. Oh my… that may make them… ‘Trumpists.’ 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  279. Again, Phillips was not asked to inscribe or decorate a cake with rainbows or grooms bending each other over

    He was asked to separate cakes into two categories and “Tom Loves Steve” was offensive enough without all the decorations that you suggested. Are you setting limits to what is artistic and what isn’t?

    would Phillips be legally justified in denying his custom cake service to Muslims…generally…..because of differences in religious doctrine and the potential that they support jihad?

    If you were turning my hypothetical around you would have included what made the cake “custom?” A 72 Virgin Cake?

    BuDuh (12caa4)

  280. Sammy – I am not sure what argument you are making in comments 243 and 276.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  281. 245. The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (78a597) — 6/28/2021 @ 5:06 am

    This has details and ideas that I did nor read in any news article.

    Engineers are almost certain where the collapse started from – from the parking garage at the bottom – and water (from the pool above it) was leaking. There was a design flaw.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/27/us/miami-building-investigation-clues.html

    One other clue that a problem started at the bottom of the building: Immediately before the collapse, one of the residents saw a hole of sorts opening near the pool.

    Michael Stratton said his wife, Cassie Stratton, who is missing, was on the phone with him [he was somewhere else] and was looking out through the window of her fourth-floor unit when, she told him, the hole appeared. After that, the call cut off.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  282. Things to do. If this topic is alive later, I’ll check in.

    BuDuh (12caa4)

  283. Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/28/2021 @ 9:09 am

    You’re twisting yourself into a pretzel and making up facts.

    This wasn’t refusing to sell anything to a gay black Christian. I don’t see any evidence that this guy won’t sell a dozen cookies to whoever wants to buy them or make a cake that says “Happy Birthday” for anyone who asks. This was being asked to make a product that conveyed a message.

    I’m also not sure where the honest distinction comes from. That seems to be an attempt to read the bakers mind but it isn’t required. We know he was told the cake was communicating a message.

    In @268 you’re drifting into the actively dishonest. The complaint about social media isn’t limited to Trump. You are intentionally restricting the scope to make a false distinction.

    question of Gender is a choice or an immutable trait is contested

    How can it be immutable when it’s something a person can change? You want gender identity to be immutable so that it can be a protected class like race and it needs to be protected so that this guy can force someone to bake him a cake celebrating it being changed. The entire discussion about gender identity and transition depends on gender being a mutable social construct. This question isn’t contested.

    seems like the people of Colorado have have made their decision as expressed by their elected officials

    Is also a false, and frankly dishonest position, this is being argued in the courts on constitutional grounds. When we have the social media discussion it’s defacto also something that can’t be voted on because the claim is you’re voting for unconstitutional censorship. If the rule is that “the people” of a state can vote in whatever they want then you’re on the side of Jim Crow and segregation laws.

    Pick a lane or join AJ and continue accusing other people of wanting their cake and eating it too.

    frosty (f27e97)

  284. BuDuh (12caa4) — 6/28/2021 @ 10:08 am

    you would have included what made the cake “custom?”

    This is the dishonest bait and switch. One the one hand this was refusing all services to homosexuals and on the other there’s what actually happened.

    frosty (f27e97)

  285. 283. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 6/28/2021 @ 10:08 am

    Sammy – I am not sure what argument you are making in comments 243 and 276.

    The south did not secede because they were afraid slavery might be abolished, but because its politicians were going to be sure to lose all elections where a constituency outside the south was involved, because slavery was held in bad repute in the North and they could not change the attitude in the south or even take a different position personally.

    It did not make sense for anyone besides ambitious politicians to secede (after all if their complaint was that fugitive slaves were not being returned, if they seceded, would they then be returned? as Lincoln pointed out in his first inaugural address) but it became just as impossible to dispute the merits of secession as it had been for 25 years to argue against slavery.

    You can say the Civil War was caused by a de facto lack of freedom of speech in the South (which they wanted to impose on the North, more or less) I am speaking here, of course, of free political actors.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  286. Sorry but “Tom Loves Steve” isn’t a piece of evidence that I remember from the case. Again, Phillips never discussed any details of the cake before saying he would not provide a custom cake celebrating a gay marriage (a month after the marriage had occurred in Massachusetts)….Phillips did offer a non-custom cake because he still wanted their money….but principles you know

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  287. In @268 you’re drifting into the actively dishonest. The complaint about social media isn’t limited to Trump. You are intentionally restricting the scope to make a false distinction.

    Trump was an illustration of an individual banned for specific individual action. I think refusing service for individual actions diiffers from refusing service based on immutable traits such as gender identity or race. This distinction is, in my mind, the key difference that justifies what social media has done in banning certain people.

    If you think being gay is a choice then what the baker is doing is very similar to what Twitter did. If you think being gay is innate then it’s not. I think it’s innate, YMMV

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  288. Sammy – Thanks. As I assume you know, there were some interesting exceptions, notably Cassius Clay (the original, not the boxer). What a movie could be made of that man’s life!

    (Incidentally, when the boxer changed his name, he switched it from a man who fought against slavery to a man who enslaved many, and founded a movement that enslaved millions.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  289. The south did not secede because they were afraid slavery might be abolished, but because its politicians were going to be sure to lose all elections where a constituency outside the south was involved….

    The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

    There is no mention of losing elections as a reason for secession:

    Georgia
    ……
    The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic.
    ……..
    Mississippi
    ……
    Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery– the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.
    …….
    South Carolina
    …….
    …….[A}n increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.
    …….
    Virginia

    The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.
    ……. (Emphasis in the original.)

    Texas
    …….
    …….She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery– the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits– a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?
    ……..
    We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  290. Just more churning of the Lost Cause. Secession was not about Slavery (Ignore all of the talk about slavery they were doing). It’s about States Rights (definitely not for slavery, because, again, you have to forget all the talk about slavery). And you are keeping us from celebrating our heritage (remember, you have to forget all that slavery stuff.)

    Confederate States of Scumbags. Scumbag Daughters of the Scumbag Confederacy. Scumbag Sons of the Scumbag Confederacy. Scumbags then, those minimizing it now, scumbags…scumbags one, scumbags all.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  291. Time123 (9f42ee) — 6/28/2021 @ 10:39 am

    If you think being gay is innate then it’s not. I think it’s innate, YMMV

    It’s not a matter of what I think. This case is about gender identity and transition. Why do you think gender identity is innate when LGBT activists are telling you that it isn’t? Why would you agree with that idea when the words transition and immutable are antonyms? You also need to come to terms with the experts. Experts have decided that both gender and sexual preference are fluid and can change over time.

    So, my mileage isn’t the question.

    frosty (f27e97)

  292. Frosty, it would appear I’m not as woke as you in this area. I stand corrected.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  293. AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 6/28/2021 @ 10:29 am

    Phillips never discussed any details of the cake

    Yep, no details. Absolutely no details at all. This was all about making a cake for a gay guy. But remember, no details at all.

    before saying he would not provide a custom cake celebrating a gay marriage

    Well, some details. A few details of course. But remember the first part of the sentence and not the second part because that’s the important takeaway.

    Phillips did offer a non-custom cake because he still wanted their money….but principles you know

    Yes, this absolutely wasn’t about the speech/expression associated with the custom cake. He would have made a non-custom cake that didn’t include some speech/expression but that just proves that this was a homophobic baker who didn’t want to make a custom cake for a gay guy.

    frosty (f27e97)

  294. Thank you frosty.

    NJRob (01231a)

  295. Gorsuch is a liar and a deviant.

    NJRob (01231a)

  296. And Roberts, Barrett, and Kavanaugh.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  297. 291. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 6/28/2021 @ 10:44 am

    Sammy – Thanks. As I assume you know, there were some interesting exceptions, notably Cassius Clay (the original, not the boxer). What a movie could be made of that man’s life!

    Historical movies usually contain significant inaccuracies but we can imagine one.

    The Wall Street Journal had an article about him a week ago:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-should-know-the-story-of-abolitionist-cassius-clay-11624053172

    This explains why he got sway with it – albeit he was in Kentucky. He was the second cousin of Henry Clay.

    He became an abolitionist during his student days at Yale.

    …Returning home after graduation in 1832, he won four terms in the state Legislature despite his unpopular antislavery views…While other antislavery agitators fled the South to escape intimidation and violence, Clay used his inherited wealth to set up an uncompromising abolitionist newspaper in Lexington, named True American. After fighting off a mob of 60 who tried to smash his printing presses, Clay installed two cannons to protect his premises. He also funded Berea College, a Christian institution that became the first college in the South to welcome black students and women.

    Though Clay might have continued in the role of philanthropist and humanitarian, his combative nature pushed him toward provocation and confrontation. Henry Clay’s biographers David and Jeanne Heidler wrote of Cassius: “A venomous pen was his first weapon of choice, a bowie knife his second, and because he was so effective with the one, he found it wise to have the other handy.”

    After a heated public debate in 1843, a hired killer assaulted him and aimed a shot directly to his chest. While struggling to remove the bowie knife from the leather scabbard he carried on his belt, Clay unintentionally pulled up the sheath over his stomach. The would-be assassin’s bullet struck the scabbard and lodged itself into the silver blade, before Cash used the knife to slice off his assailant’s nose and an ear.

    Six years later, the pro-slavery Turner Brothers—six of them—attacked Clay with cudgels and knives during a public meeting at Foxtown, stabbing him repeatedly in the back before Thomas Turner, the group’s leader, pulled out his revolver. The trigger jammed three times, giving Clay the chance to gut another brother, Cyrus, with his knife, a fatal blow that dispersed his attackers.

    He was also in the Mexican War before that.

    e helped oranize the Republican Party in Kentucky.

    Clay personally recruited a battalion of 300 volunteers to defend the White House and the U.S. Naval Yard before federal troops arrived. President Lincoln saluted this service with the gift of a ceremonial Colt revolver, before dispatching Maj. Gen. Clay (as he was then known) to Russia to serve as U.S. minister to the czar.

    In one of the crucial but little-publicized turning points in the Civil War, Clay’s work in St. Petersburg helped persuade Alexander II to support the Union cause and to threaten war against Britain and France if they recognized the Confederacy. When Russian ships arrived in both New York and San Francisco harbors to show their support, Navy Secretary Gideon Wells declared in his diary: “God Bless the Russians.”

    Incidentally, John Marshal Harlan (the first) was also from Kentucky.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  298. (Incidentally, when the boxer changed his name, he switched it from a man who fought against slavery to a man who enslaved many, and founded a movement that enslaved millions.)

    They could enslave anyone who wasn’t Muslim. (if they followed their principles, but I think there were converted slaves too)

    From the WSJ:

    To honor the memory of the famous and fearless abolitionist, one Herman Heaton Clay, whose ancestors had been enslaved by the Clay family, named his own son Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr…. Without any acknowledgment of the daring, dangerous commitment to emancipation that characterized the life of his namesake, the new champ disparaged Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr. as “a slave name.” He said: “I didn’t choose it and I don’t want it. . . . Why would I keep my white slave master’s name visible and my black ancestors invisible, unknown, unhonored?”

    The boxer was an ignoramus. He took Malcolm X’s version of history, in which they used to be Moslems.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  299. American Black Muslims are the Moonies of Islam.

    nk (1d9030)

  300. nk @302, That is true I think the boxer eventually became a regular Moslem. The erson who took over the Black Muslims was Louis Farrakhan.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  301. I wonder how many bodies were buried under the side of the house that is sinking

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  302. Gorsuch specifically promised in his corrupt ruling that bathrooms wouldn’t be touched and he’d revisit if anyone tried to do so.

    The corrupt court cited his ruling and twisted it to allow men into women’s facilities.

    Then Gorsuch ran like a corrupt coward.

    NJRob (72568b)

  303. I don’t care what bathroom you use so long as you don’t tell me about it, don’t do anything creepy, and wash your hands afterwards

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  304. Time,

    Enjoy the guy hanging out at a women’s and kids spa with his wang out like was in Los Angeles.

    NJRob (72568b)

  305. steveg (ebe7c1) — 6/29/2021 @ 8:33 am

    I wonder how many bodies were buried under the side of the house that is sinking

    I think it was sinking all overm althouh maybe not evenly. More important, the parts supporting the weight were corroding – probably more on one sode.

    Latest I heard, which was late Sunday (it wasn’t updated for at least 24 hours) 9 people had been “lost” (which means found) and 150 people (or maybe more since they apparently must have stopped updating the list) were reported missing.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  306. Oh the gift that keeps on giving. Paul Gosar is having a fund raiser with his special guest…Adolf…uh…checks video…yup looks like it’s Adolf Hitler IV.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)


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