Patterico's Pontifications

1/15/2021

The Interesting Notes That Trump Loyalist And MyPillow CEO Had At The White House Today (UPDATE)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 3:21 pm



[guest post by Dana]

It’s Friday afternoon, and you know we couldn’t just end the week quietly.

Loyal Trumper and MyPillow CEO Michael Lindell was seen at the White House today. As an FYI, Lindell has been actively involved in the post-election protest movement, as we all financing the two-week March for Trump rally. In other words, he has pro-actively orchestrated efforts to overturn the legitimate election results. At the White House, Lindell was photographed holding his notes and a coffee cup in one hand. The notes were not entirely obscured by the coffee cup:

Close-up:
Untitled

It sort of looks like Lindell is toying with the idea of martial law:

… BE TAKEN IMMEDIATELY TO SAVE THE
…THE CONSTITUTION
…Colon NOW as Acting National Security
…him with getting the evidence of ALL the
…in the election and all information regarding
…using people he knows who already have security
…done massive research on these issues
…at Fort Mead [sic]. He is an attorney with cyber-
…expertise and is up to speed on election issues.
…Insurrection Act now as a result of the assault on the
martial law if necessary upon the first hint of any
[STRIKETHROUGH]
…Sidney Powell, Bill Olsen, Kurt Olsen,
…DOD. Move Kash Patel to CIA Acting.
…on Foreign Interference in the election. Trigger
…powers. Make clear this is China/Iran
…also used domestic actors. Instruct Frank
…evidence on…the more broad
…likely amount…
…line…evidence

Just a wee bit problematic, no? Of course, it would be both unbelievably stupid and utterly corrupt to be considering such a move, but given Trump’s desperation and limited time left in office, this sort of last-ditch-Hail-Mary-dumbass-move seems like not only something Trump would nod enthusiastically to as it was being presented, but would also be the absolute culmination of all things Trump, and Trumpsim itself:

UPDATE: Via Maggie Haberman @ NYT:

I got a bit more information about the Lindell meeting. It was a brief meeting, Trump sent him upstairs to the WH counsel’s office to be escorted by an admin official sitting next to Lindell in the meeting. That official, according to another official, was Robert O’Brien.

Once up there, he insisted on meeting with Cipollone. It got contentious, in part bc supposedly on the blacked-out part of his notes was something about how Cipollone should be fired.

Lindell tells me that he was carrying the notes for an attorney he’s been working with to prove the election was really won by Trump, wouldn’t say who it was. Said some of it related to reports Trump is now unable to see because he doesn’t have Twitter.

Lindell insists the papers he was holding, which were photographed and visible, didn’t reference “martial law.” An administration official says they definitely referenced martial law.

I can see with my own eyes that “martial law” was clearly captured by the *photograph* of the notes. Lindell confirms to us that we shouldn’t trust what he says.

UPDATE #2: Via Josh Dawsey @ WaPo:

Talked to Mike Lindell this evening. He said lawyer gave him notes to share with POTUS but repeatedly wouldn’t say what lawyer. He said he met with Trump for 5-10 minutes and then was referred to counsel’s office. Said the lawyers were “disinterested, very disinterested.”

Lindell said he gave POTUS this document & also provided to me. Said, falsely, it was clear Biden lost and Trump won — by 11 million votes. Said the truth would one day come out. After meeting with WH lawyers, who he said weren’t interested, he wasn’t let back in to see POTUS.

–Dana

115 Responses to “The Interesting Notes That Trump Loyalist And MyPillow CEO Had At The White House Today (UPDATE)”

  1. Hoo boy.

    Dana (cc9481)

  2. I hope someone @’ed the FBI and the Justice department. I hear Leavenworth sucks this time of year.

    Nic (896fdf)

  3. What do you think?

    I think I like my MyPillow. This reminded me that I need another one.

    frosty (f27e97)

  4. I thought he was there to repo his pillows

    steveg (43b7a5)

  5. That was the plan, Dana. What the corrupt criminal traitors had fantasized would happen if they occupied Congress and took its members and the Vice President prisoner.

    nk (1d9030)

  6. Come on admit it, we’ve all fantasized about moving Kash Patel to acting CIA.

    JRH (52aed3)

  7. Was Michael Lindell in the Navy?

    nk (1d9030)

  8. Buy a MyPillow today! 10% of the purchase price goes toward our campaign to subvert American democracy!

    Demosthenes (9bd9ee)

  9. MyPillows for everyone…..in Leavenworth

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  10. Mitch has already said he won’t even look at them before the 20th, so why is this a big drama?

    Nic (896fdf)

  11. Lessee. We are entering the second year of a deadly pandemic. The inauguration is going to be held behind concrete and steel, barbed wire and 20,000 armed troops. Thirty percent of the People are convinced that the election was stolen, and view the new administration as illegitimate. Most of them are well-armed. The losing candidate is being impeached for, among other things, insisting he won. Sooner or later they will put him in prison.

    What could go wrong? Martial law? I’m not sure we’d notice.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. A possibly paranoid concern: “Never let a crisis go to waste.”

    Will Biden use the purported ongoing threat from nebulous “far right” or “white supremacist” groups to declare martial law himself? A state of siege? Round up all the guns? Or maybe some people? Just for the duration, of course.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. Funny thing is, there is a zero percent chance Trump would ever use a MyPillow.

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  14. Given how pro-active Lindell has been in trying to overturn the election results makes it concerning that he was at the WH today. The possibility that he presented his notes/proposal to the sitting-President is also concerning. And it’s obviously even more so given the events of last week, and the clear level of desperation Trump is experiencing. Moreover, have you seen any indication from Trump over the past four years that he is capable of putting himself behind the country, the Constitution, or long-standing practices and traditions? Has he evidenced self-restraint and decency, along with a healthy respect for the law? Fortunately, there are very few of his Trumpers left in the WH, and he has seemingly lost all momentum.

    Dana (cc9481)

  15. Kevin Madden:

    How frickin’ bananas crazy did the blacked out portion have to be for the My Pillow Guy to say: “Yeah, probably a bit too much let’s strike that part.”

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  16. I’ve updated the post. This, via Maggie Haberman @ NYT:

    I got a bit more information about the Lindell meeting. It was a brief meeting, Trump sent him upstairs to the WH counsel’s office to be escorted by an admin official sitting next to Lindell in the meeting. That official, according to another official, was Robert O’Brien.

    Once up there, he insisted on meeting with Cipollone. It got contentious, in part bc supposedly on the blacked-out part of his notes was something about how Cipollone should be fired.

    Lindell tells me that he was carrying the notes for an attorney he’s been working with to prove the election was really won by Trump, wouldn’t say who it was. Said some of it related to reports Trump is now unable to see because he doesn’t have Twitter.

    Lindell insists the papers he was holding, which were photographed and visible, didn’t reference “martial law.” An administration official says they definitely referenced martial law.

    Dana (cc9481)

  17. Vladeck has some comforting words about the difficulty of Trump getting what he wants under the Insurrection Act. My guess is that everything Trump knows about martial law comes from a Bruce Willis movie.
    Nevertheless, I feel like we can’t relax for a minute until Trump is gone for good.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  18. @3 Do you really want to support somebody who is propping up a would-be tyrant?

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  19. I agree, Paul. Pretty sure I will be on edge until at least January 21.

    Dana (cc9481)

  20. If this sh!t continues, both on the right and the left, I’m going to emigrate.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  21. Ah:

    Talked to Mike Lindell this evening. He said lawyer gave him notes to share with POTUS but repeatedly wouldn’t say what lawyer. He said he met with Trump for 5-10 minutes and then was referred to counsel’s office. Said the lawyers were “disinterested, very disinterested.”

    Lindell said he gave POTUS this document & also provided to me. Said, falsely, it was clear Biden lost and Trump won — by 11 million votes. Said the truth would one day come out. After meeting with WH lawyers, who he said weren’t interested, he wasn’t let back in to see POTUS.

    Dana (cc9481)

  22. How vital is it to remove President Trump from office early? So vital that Nancy Pelosi hasn’t sent the Article of Impeachment to the Senate yet, and won’t do so until some unspecified date next week.

    Nic explained why. McConnell said they won’t start the trial until after January 20. Had you not heard that??

    Patterico (115b1f)

  23. @23 God forbid anybody roust the senators back to Washington before the allotted time.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  24. I think the only way this makes sense is that Lindell is sucking up to Trump to get him to buy pillows for his vacant hotels. Either that or Lindell is a seditious funder of the insurrection.

    Talking martial law with the My Pillow guy? Seriously?

    Trump has become increasingly comical. His only public appearance in a week has been in Alamo, Texas, which is about 30 miles from here. And, no, I didn’t bother to attend. I’ve listed and sold several houses in Alamo over the years, but I wouldn’t waste the gas for a Trump speech–scratch that, spout of lies.

    Imagine this scenario. Someone told Trump about the battle at the Alamo. We all know he’s ignorant of history and doesn’t read, so someone told him about the Alamo. Or maybe he watched a movie.

    A funny side note is that in the movie about the battle at the Alamo, starring John Wayne, in the scene when the Mexican army storms the Alamo, if you look closely you can see a yellow school bus driving down a dirt road in the background. No one noticed it during filming, and when it came to editing it was too late (and too expensive) to reassemble all the actors to reshoot the scene, so they left it in and hoped nobody would see it. But there it is, a yellow school bus at the siege of the Alamo.

    The story of the Alamo is an important part of Texas history, but it’s not the defining moment. The Texians and Tejanos in the Alamo fought valiantly–and Travis’s line in the sand and letter (https://www.history.com/news/travis-writes-from-the-alamo-victory-or-death) are taught in every history class–“I will not retreat or surrender. . . . Victory or death.”

    They all died. At the battle of Goliad, the Texas army surrendered, and Santa Anna had them summarily shot, executed, in an extreme violation of the rules of war. That was what was on the minds of Texans when the found the Mexican army taking a siesta in San Jacinto. The rallying cry was not “Remember the Alamo!” It was “Remember Goliad!”

    The battle at San Jacinto didn’t last an hour. Santa Anna was found hiding in a tent, dressed as a woman. How humiliating. The only reason why Houston didn’t have him executed for war crimes is because they were both Masons. Yeah, all Santa Anna had to do was flash the secret hand signal, and Houston had to allow him to return to Mexico.

    Santa Anna was a failed general. Not only did he lose the Texas Revolution, he lost the Mexican-American War. The Spanish land grant holders (ladinos) were not happy about that, because they lost the Southwest. That’s why there are no statues of Santa Anna in Mexico. There are towns and counties named after the Tejanos who fought with Houston. Texian, Tejano, we’re all Texans now.

    It’s a strange thing, but if you travel and meet someone from another state, ask them where they’re from, they’ll give you name of a city. But if you ask Texan, he or she will say, “I’m from Texas.”

    It’s because we take great pride in being Texans. Have you read Braham Stoker’s Dracula in the original? In the end, what is it that kills the evil, bloodsucking vampire? It’s not sunlight, a holy cross, or holy water. It’s a Texan with a Bowie knife. It doesn’t get much bigger than that.

    So, Trump heard the story of the Alamo, or maybe watched a movie–we all know he didn’t read a history book–and decided to make an appearance in Alamo.

    Problem is that the real Alamo is in San Antonio, about 300 miles north. But there is a small section of border wall in Alamo, which was built under the Bush administration.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  25. Well, I guess I’ll chalk up MyPillow to the list of vendors that I won’t buy from again. Lindell was always a little bit out there, but until now I wasn’t aware to the extent of his involvement with the #StoptheSteal kooks.

    HCI (92ea66)

  26. Our esteemed host wrote:

    How vital is it to remove President Trump from office early? So vital that Nancy Pelosi hasn’t sent the Article of Impeachment to the Senate yet, and won’t do so until some unspecified date next week.

    Nic explained why. McConnell said they won’t start the trial until after January 20. Had you not heard that??

    I knew that the Senate was not going to be in formal session until the 19th, but so what? Did the Speakess of the House demand that the Senate take up this Article of Impeachment immediately, because the Safety of the Republic demanded it? Were the Democrats all over CNN and MSNBC and even Fox demanding that the President be tried immediately?

    Senator McConnell remains Majority Leader until your former Senator becomes Vice President, and such demands would have had no effect on him, but if the Democrats were angrily demanding he take action earlier, I certainly never heard about it.

    The impeachment is simply a parting shot at a President the left despise, but it was never in any way seriously meant to get him out of office early. Hell, the Capitol riot was on the 6th, but the Democrats didn’t consider pushing the Vice President to invoke the 25th Amendment until the following Monday, and when he (rightly) refused, they didn’t introduce the Article of Impeachment until Wednesday, the 13th, a full week after the riot. The only sense of urgency the Democrats had was to get something on paper before the 20th, not to actually remove teh President.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  27. So now they have 25,000 national guardsmen. For some reason they added 5,000 more. God only knows what added security they see there. I see some scenarios, none of which are very good.

    1. Absolutely nothing happens. No demonstrations, no attacks. Some protests in various cities, but no violence. Biden pretends he doesn’t look silly with all the guards. But he looks silly, bordering on paranoid.

    2. There are widespread demonstrations outside the walled off area, but no violence.

    3. There are widespread demonstrations outside the walled off area, and someone does something stupid. The guardsmen react, mowing down 100 people with automatic weapons.

    4. There are widespread demonstrations outside the walled off area, and someone does something stupid. The guardsmen react, mowing down 100 people with automatic weapons. Armed members of the crowd fight back and there is a general bloodbath. 2,300 citizens lie dead.

    Only the middle case fails to decrease Biden’s legitimacy. 25,000 troops seems such an overreaction, and such a set-up for disaster.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  28. Tried My Pillow once. Worse than most pillows, and that takes effort. Took it back.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. What makes you think the troops will be issued live ammunition, Kevin? The last bunch were not.

    nk (1d9030)

  30. This has been the ultimate ETTD of this presidency. So many folks and entities are going down.

    Many do not deserve such a fate. Some, like this fool, have certainly earned and richly deserve to fall.

    Ed from SFV (ae997e)

  31. Somehow, if the Second Civil War of the US ends up being launched, it seems weirdly appropriate that a dumpy pillow salesman would be the proximate cause.

    john (cd2753)

  32. On January 7, Donald Trump was asked to vacate his place of residence. That request came from Sanity. Deep down he knew Sanity was right, but he also knew he would never return to it.

    With no place else to go, he sought his old friend, Michael Lindell. Lindell’s Sanity had also left him a long time ago never to return.

    Can two deranged old coots live together without tearing each other apart with their dentures?

    nk (1d9030)

  33. What makes you think the troops will be issued live ammunition, Kevin? The last bunch were not.

    Pentagon authorizes arming of National Guard members supporting Capitol security
    National Guard members supporting US Capitol security in Washington, DC, ahead of Inauguration Day will be armed, the Department of Defense announced Tuesday.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  34. “Said, falsely, it was clear Biden lost and Trump won”
    I think the wording is interesting. For a long time, whenever a conservative was reported as making some statement, it would be reported as “….. claimed without evidence that…”. At some point, everyone switched to “falsely claimed”, as in “Trump falsely claimed today that the Covid vaccine would be ready by the end of 2020″.
    Clearly, lots of claims turn out to be false. But the wording implies that the person reporting the claim has thoroughly investigated it , and found incontrovertible evidence that it is false. It would be more accurate to say that “… claimed X, but we have found no evidence to support that claim”.

    I know that this sort of reporting is very much in fashion these days, but it would be better to at least convey an impression of objectivity. We are in an era when anything that might reflect negatively on democrats is automatically labeled as false. It is like discussing some issue with a woke teenager, who generally uses the reasoning “because shut up!”
    If we do not want to be viewed as Stalinists, we would be better off not sounding so much like we are.

    Max Blancke (a226cb)

  35. @kevin@28 I don’t think they plan to spend all 25,000 encircling the Capitol building and national mall standing at attention rows or anything. The likelihood of seeing them all at once unless there’s a major incident is low. My guess would be that they station units in the Capitol building and various federal buildings and museums surrounding the Capitol building and the Mall, then deploy them commensurate with the crowd, plus have some stationed in various strategic areas around the city (near major road and bridges frex. Unless something happens, they won’t every be all in the same place and we won’t ever see them all at once and if something does happen, it’ll seem appropriate. People need visuals to really understand how big a number is and unless something major happens, that 25,000 will just be a number on paper and stay a number on paper and won’t make any difference at all in the perception of Biden’s legitimacy.

    Nic (896fdf)

  36. MyPillow CEO hints at scrapped plan to replace CIA director with Trump loyalist
    ……..
    MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell, a Republican donor who has informally advised President Donald Trump, was seen leaving the West Wing on Friday carrying pages of notes that appear to outline a series of recommendations. Among those that are visible are the words, “Move Kash Patel to CIA acting” a reference to the current chief of staff to acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller.

    Patel, who has held a number of senior jobs in the administration, was named chief of staff to Miller a few days after the general election and is widely viewed as a Trump loyalist.

    …….[A]according to two administration officials, Trump has actually discussed with others the idea of installing Patel as acting CIA director before.

    Trump has been on the verge of firing CIA Director Gina Haspel several times only to be pulled back from the brink, multiple sources have previously told CNN. In December, he and others concocted a plan to terminate Haspel and put Patel in charge of the CIA. Multiple options were discussed, including firing Haspel’s deputy Vaughn Bishop and replacing him with Patel, which they believed would force Haspel to quit, and also firing both and making Patel acting director.
    …….
    While it wasn’t immediately clear whether the President discussed the issue of CIA leadership with Lindell during his visit Friday to the White House, its mention in Lindell’s notes renewed speculation that the issue isn’t moot.
    …….
    Asked if there was any way Trump would make such a high-profile change with just a few days left, one senior administration official said, “Frankly, he’s running out of people who’d even know how to implement those changes. There’s no one to do the paperwork, which is pretty complicated for unorthodox personnel moves.”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  37. Can two deranged old coots live together without tearing each other apart with their dentures?

    An unglued pillow salesman advising a reality TV star with nuclear codes to declare martial law isn’t something I had on my January 2021 bingo card. Meanwhile, each dollar he spends funding Trump’s Sturmabteilung of cosplay seditionists is a MyPillow he can’t donate to people like this lady who clearly needs one.

    lurker (59504c)

  38. Kentucky Dana @10-
    Pelosi Holds Back Impeachment Article as House Builds Case
    …….
    …… Democrats in both chambers involved in the impeachment case said they expected the delay to be brief. Ms. Pelosi could transmit the article as soon as Monday, they said, prompting the start of a trial just as power is being transferred to Mr. Biden.

    The House was waiting, at least in part, to determine the outcome of negotiations between Senate Democrats and Republicans over the shape of a highly unusual proceeding. On the cusp of taking unified control of Washington, Democrats were working to draft rules that would allow the Senate to operate on dual tracks to confirm Mr. Biden’s cabinet and begin moving his legislative agenda while trying Mr. Trump.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  39. There’s something somewhat ‘Zapruder-Frame-313-Roswell Crash-creepy’ about this super zoom/enhance photo thing. More dramatic if he’d just have tucked it in a cigarette case and hopped a flight from Gibraltar to Washington.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  40. Could it be that Mr. Lindell is acting oddly because of sleep deprivation?

    John B Boddie (d795fd)

  41. Donald Trump has all the best people on his team, Mr. lurker. A Creek medicine man headdress with warpaint is a hard act to follow, but a leopard skin track suit is a gallant effort.

    nk (1d9030)

  42. 11. Mitch has already said he won’t even look at them before the 20th, so why is this a big drama?

    The only calendar that matters to “them” is the one for those GOPers close to or up for re-election in the near term, what w/74-plus million disgruntled Trump voters keeping tabs. And none of this gets Covid vaccine or $2000 Covid relief out to hurting Americans faster. As long as it appears to be about ‘THEM’ and not ‘US,’ they risk the wrath of those voters come election time.

    By time or their Senate votes, he’ll likely beat the rap again.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  43. @DCSCA @44 Mitch won’t look at the $2000 either and the current executive branch is in charge of vaccine distribution and f’ed that up because they didn’t bother to make a plan. Neither Mitch nor Trump is helping those 74 million voters.

    Nic (896fdf)

  44. norcal (b4d7b1) — 1/15/2021 @ 5:30 pm

    @3 Do you really want to support somebody who is propping up a would-be tyrant?

    Let’s not get hysterical. I can buy whatever pillows I like.

    frosty (f27e97)

  45. — How do you get down from an elephant?
    — You don’t get down from an elephant, you get down from a duck.
    — How do you get down from a duck?
    — You use a ladder.

    It would be funnier if the duck did not have the nuclear button for five more days.

    nk (1d9030)

  46. thats quite a brain twister there mr nk

    Dave (1bb933)

  47. “Let’s not get hysterical. I can buy whatever pillows I like.”

    Buying overpriced pillows to own the libs.

    Davethulhu (95ea9f)

  48. nk (1d9030) — 1/15/2021 @ 8:36 pm

    It’s cute that you think there’s a little button that gets pushed and boom

    frosty (f27e97)

  49. Davethulhu (95ea9f) — 1/15/2021 @ 9:24 pm

    The last pillow didn’t come with a lib. If they throw one in for free I can pass.

    frosty (f27e97)

  50. It’s cute that you pretend not to know that “the nuclear button” is shorthand for the President’s sole and unfettered authority to order a nuclear attack.

    nk (1d9030)

  51. Let’s not get hysterical. I can buy whatever pillows I like.

    frosty (f27e97) — 1/15/2021 @ 8:30 pm

    I never said you couldn’t. You also have the right to jump off a cliff. Advising you against that action is not the same as saying you can’t.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  52. So remember that there’s that virus thing going on.

    But hey, vaccines are rolling out, the Trump admin has agreed that it’s a good idea to ship all the doses out and not hold back the reserve.

    Small problem, they were lying about having an actual reserve.

    New estimates predict the daily death toll by mid Feb to be 8k-12k, only 2X to 3X today. So I don’t really give a crap about the other insanity rolling out of any of these traitors mouths, there’s no redemption for any of these losers and criminals.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  53. nk (1d9030) — 1/15/2021 @ 9:34 pm

    He has the sole authority but not unfettered ability. You gave it away yourself. He can order a nuclear launch. That doesn’t mean missiles fly.

    frosty (f27e97)

  54. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 1/15/2021 @ 9:41 pm

    So, they started implementing Biden’s 1-shot plan a week or two early? That does sound like traitorous treason.

    A couple of items from the article

    health officials across the country who had anticipated their extremely limited vaccine supply as much as doubling beginning next week are confronting the reality that their allocations will remain largely flat

    Why were they anticipating a doubling? The article doesn’t say but I’m guessing it was because Biden was going to do the 1-shot plan. I don’t think anyone is expecting production to double.

    so Operation Warp Speed leaders felt they could reliably anticipate the availability of doses for booster shots — required three weeks later in the case of the Pfizer-BioNTech product and four weeks later under Moderna’s protocol

    Ok, the supply chain is good. Anyone not going to get the 2-shot?

    Those in line for their second shots are still expected to get them on schedule because second doses are prioritized over first shots and states are still receiving regular vaccine shipments.

    Hmm, maybe this isn’t the 1-shot plan if everyone can still get the 2nd shot. Can’t really tell from this article. So, what’s the real problem?

    But state and local officials say they are angry and bewildered by the shifting directions and changing explanations about supply.

    OMG! It’s the treasonous shifting directions and changing explanations of traitors! Get the nooses ready!

    At this pace 2021 is going to make 2020 look like 1998.

    frosty (f27e97)

  55. Your defense of traitors and criminals is typical.

    380,000 dead people, no plan for a year. Oh, and insurrections, Russian bounties, attempted election fraud on a massive scale, incompetence on the economy, turncoating our oldest allies,also just in the same year.

    Oh the joys of complaining about Biden not getting a $15hr minimum wage and being a generally below average democrat.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  56. He has the sole authority but not unfettered ability. You gave it away yourself. He can order a nuclear launch. That doesn’t mean missiles fly.

    And you know this how?

    nk (1d9030)

  57. nk (1d9030) — 1/16/2021 @ 3:15 am

    Common sense and every piece of information available to the public. You can start here.

    Common sense says he can’t just decide to nuke a random country by the single push of a button. For one thing the delivery system would need to be tasked and the president isn’t going to do that personally. There are specific systems pre-targeted but there’s still not a button with China on it that he presses.

    The information available indicates that things like land and sub based missiles are launched locally after receiving proper launch orders. From every description I’ve ever read that requires two people to activate the final launch sequence. Bombers are even more complicated.

    You were sort of vague but the implication is the he has some sort of automatic first strike ability. There is zero evidence for that. He can order a launch but it doesn’t mean it will happen. There are more people in the launch loop than just POTUS.

    frosty (f27e97)

  58. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 1/15/2021 @ 10:48 pm

    You posted an article to justify an extreme position. The article doesn’t and you switch to ad hominem because I noticed. That’s what’s typical.

    frosty (f27e97)

  59. So, they started implementing Biden’s 1-shot plan a week or two early? That does sound like traitorous treason.

    I totally called this. Trump’s fans were fed this lie that come Jan 21, Biden’s going to totally screw around with the reserve supply of vaccine. This explains why the administration would lie that a reserve exists, when they actually depleted it. That way, the Biden admin starts with this enormous problem they have no control over, and folks like Frosty will confidently blame them for it.

    Like Klink says, this means more death. And even at this late stage, it is disturbing how Trump’s administration uses disinformation. This isn’t to serve any political purpose other than to make Trump look relatively better than Biden, knowing deaths will skyrocket.

    Remember, the administration could have purchased many more vaccine doses and refused to. They punished America for Trump’s ego. Those who defend him will deny they ever did.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  60. frosty (f27e97) — 1/16/2021 @ 7:29 am
    frosty (f27e97) — 1/16/2021 @ 7:39 am

    These are fine ripostes. I also appreciate the tone, as a charitable reading is want to render.

    felipe (630e0b)

  61. I totally called this. Dustin (4237e0) — 1/16/2021 @ 7:44 am

    Yes, you did, Dustin.

    felipe (630e0b)

  62. While I really appreciate frosty defending Trump, because it’s educational and tough to do on this blog, I think some of the arguments are really just efforts to chip away at reasoning, like a debate club.

    For example, nk’s point that Trump has incredible power for destruction. Of course there may not be a literal red button to nuke Tehran. And of course Trump’s orders could be refused, or otherwise fail. But hours after that Georgia phone call, the Nimitz made a u-turn back to Iran. Trump could reveal information about our capabilities that is worth billions. It isn’t possible to discuss this with perfect accuracy, so frosty’s responses are distracting. NK’s point is that Trump has a lot of power to do damage, and a willingness to do damage, and a motive to do damage.

    If I were a Trump supporter, I might just resort to saying it’s the democrat’s fault that Trump is in office right now, that they are squeezing this crisis in hopes of maximizing the political benefits. After all, if Trump led us to a new disaster, 99% of voters will not make the democrats pay for it. They basically can’t.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  63. (I realize it is up to some Team R senators to remove him, but Team D could be blamed for a lot of the inaction).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  64. Dustin (4237e0) — 1/16/2021 @ 7:44 am

    I totally called this

    Except the article doesn’t say that and I mentioned that later in my comment.

    Based on the article Klink posted there’s no change in the actual supply and it reads like the 1-shot plan is still an option. There is nothing in the article and neither you or Klink provide any basis for “this”, i.e. them releasing the reserve, meaning more death.

    But I noted that in my original reply that you selectively quoted to tell a different story. So, you read my comment and you had the chance to read the article but you still chose to be dishonest.

    What’s better is you then proceed to call out disinformation while you are making more baseless claims. The article actually explained the reason for releasing the vaccines being held but you ignore that to lie some more.

    Based on the article, the reserve supply, is a buffer to deal with supply chain interruptions. There’s no indication of the size and no reason to think it would have doubled supply. It’s purpose was to ensure that the planned supply could be meet. It wasn’t needed because production has been consistent so it was released for use. The problem the article describes is some health officials are upset because they don’t have more than they were told to expect.

    It sounds like you’ve elevated anything less than the 1-shot option to treason. Which seems to be another typical thing.

    frosty (f27e97)

  65. Dustin (4237e0) — 1/16/2021 @ 8:08 am

    I think some of the arguments are really just efforts to chip away at reasoning, like a debate club.

    If your argument is flawed wouldn’t you want to know? I think most honest people would. How is debating an issue anything other than chipping away at it? I know, you want to be able to say a thing, feel good about saying it, and bathe in the agreement of others. Reasoned disagreement robs you of that.

    I try to respond in a reasonable and honest way. I don’t always stay reasonable but I don’t think you can say that I’m dishonest. You should try it. It’s a bit harder than always twisting everything to ridicule people you don’t like but I think it’s more interesting.

    frosty (f27e97)

  66. Mr Snowman wrote:

    @3 Do you really want to support somebody who is propping up a would-be tyrant?

    Let’s not get hysterical. I can buy whatever pillows I like.

    For how long?

    Twitter and Facebook banned President Trump, because they said his speech was too dangerous, and the sheeple said, “It is good.”

    Then Jeff Bezos, owner of Amazon and The Washington Post, the masthead tagline of which is “Democracy Dies in Darkness,” cut out Parler completely, put Parler in the Darkness, not just because President Trump’s speech is dangerous, but, apparently, because all conservatives’ speech is dangerous, and the sheeple nodded their heads sagely and said, “It is good.”

    So, how long will it be before Mr Lindell’s political positions are declared anathema, and he will no longer be allowed to advertise on any station carried by DirecTV, a subsidiary of AT&T? That would include virtually every television station in America.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  67. Mr Snowman wrote:

    He has the sole authority but not unfettered ability. You gave it away yourself. He can order a nuclear launch. That doesn’t mean missiles fly.

    President Muffley: General Turgidson, I find this very difficult to understand. I was under the impression that I was the only one in authority to order the use of nuclear weapons.

    General Turgidson: That’s right sir. You are the only person authorized to do so. And although I hate to judge before all the facts are in, it’s beginning to look like General Ripper exceeded his authority.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  68. put Parler in the Darkness, not just because President Trump’s speech is dangerous, but, apparently, because all conservatives’ speech is dangerous,

    This is conservative speech?

    These are the violent threats that made Amazon drop Parler

    You’ll have to click the link and read them for yourselves.

    nk (1d9030)

  69. nk (1d9030) — 1/16/2021 @ 9:55 am

    These are the violent threats that made Amazon drop Parler

    That is at best disingenuous. They banned all speech on the platform. And it magically happened right after we started hearing calls for Trump to move to Parler.

    If violent threats are the rule why isn’t Twitter offline? There is a lot there that Twitter knows about and has refused to remove. We’ve got evidence of people on Facebook coordinating violence, the groups are still on Facebook, and no one is taking Facebook offline.

    Not being consistent about the violence undermines the concern.

    frosty (f27e97)

  70. Let’s just blow away the smoke and I’ll leave disingenuous to people who call that garbage “conservative”:

    If violent threats are the rule why isn’t Twitter offline? There is a lot there that Twitter knows about and has refused to remove. We’ve got evidence of people on Facebook coordinating violence, the groups are still on Facebook, and no one is taking Facebook offline.

    Maybe because Twitter and Facebook are not shoestring outfits who rely on third-party hosting, and nobody can take them offline except their own selves? The “rule” as far as Parler goes is what its contract with Amazon says.

    nk (1d9030)

  71. nk (1d9030) — 1/16/2021 @ 9:55 am

    These are the violent threats that made Amazon drop Parler

    That is at best disingenuous. They banned all speech on the platform. And it magically happened right after we started hearing calls for Trump to move to Parler.

    If violent threats are the rule why isn’t Twitter offline? There is a lot there that Twitter knows about and has refused to remove. We’ve got evidence of people on Facebook coordinating violence, the groups are still on Facebook, and no one is taking Facebook offline.

    Not being consistent about the violence undermines the concern.

    frosty (f27e97) — 1/16/2021 @ 10:15 am

    It magically happened after several hundred domestic terrorists attacked the capital, a police officer was beaten to death, and evidence emerged that Parler was a used to plan the attack.

    If you’re going to point a tipping point, let’s point to the right one.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  72. nk (1d9030) — 1/16/2021 @ 10:29 am

    Maybe because Twitter and Facebook are not shoestring outfits who rely on third-party hosting, and nobody can take them offline except their own selves? The “rule” as far as Parler goes is what its contract with Amazon says.

    He who has the money makes the rules.

    There’s a thing called Google you should try it. If you don’t trust the headline:

    While this marks the first time that Twitter has utilised the public cloud to scale their real-time service, it comes as an extension of the two companies’ decade-long collaboration, throughout which AWS has provided Twitter with storage, compute, database, and content delivery services to support its distribution of images, videos, ad content and more.

    Also,

    people who call that garbage “conservative”

    since I didn’t do that surely you aren’t talking about me.

    frosty (f27e97)

  73. Mr Snowman wrote:

    @3 Do you really want to support somebody who is propping up a would-be tyrant?
    Let’s not get hysterical. I can buy whatever pillows I like.

    For how long?

    Twitter and Facebook banned President Trump, because they said his speech was too dangerous, and the sheeple said, “It is good.”

    Then Jeff Bezos, owner of Amazon and The Washington Post, the masthead tagline of which is “Democracy Dies in Darkness,” cut out Parler completely, put Parler in the Darkness, not just because President Trump’s speech is dangerous, but, apparently, because all conservatives’ speech is dangerous, and the sheeple nodded their heads sagely and said, “It is good.”

    So, how long will it be before Mr Lindell’s political positions are declared anathema, and he will no longer be allowed to advertise on any station carried by DirecTV, a subsidiary of AT&T? That would include virtually every television station in America.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c) — 1/16/2021 @ 9:41 am

    I wonder if something happened recently to cause Amazon to changer their view of Parler?

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  74. Time123 (dba73f) — 1/16/2021 @ 10:34 am

    after … evidence emerged that Parler was a used to plan the attack.

    Do you have a link for that? Because I haven’t seen that there was any evidence of planning the riot given prior to the takedown. You are making a very specific claim that I don’t think is accurate.

    I’ve seen that evidence provided after the takedown and I’ve seen similar evidence given for FB. But the reason given for shutting down Parler immediately prior to the takedown was the threat of future violence.

    I’ve also seen a lot of simple statements like “we’re having a rally at the capital. come show support” be cited as “planning an insurrection”. That’s intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

    If you’re going to point a tipping point, let’s point to the right one.

    Let’s point to the one one side cares about? I’d point to both. I’d also point out the calls for violence remain on FB and Twitter from the “good guys”.

    Not being consistent about the violence undermines the concern.

    frosty (f27e97)

  75. Frosty, https://www.geekwire.com/2021/amazon-responds-parlers-lawsuit-calls-meritless-cites-content-advocating-violence/

    Has a copy of a Amazon’s response.

    It lays out the details and explanation.

    seems clear that after hundreds of terrorists attacked the capital AWS position changed from “Parler needs to improve moderation.” to “Holly Crap, those nut jobs on Parler actually tried to do the crazy stuff they were talking about.”

    Acting as if the terrorism on 1/6 wasn’t what made them change their position, and that this is just white guys getting picked on is silly.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  76. Time123 (ca85c9) — 1/16/2021 @ 11:03 am

    I wonder if something happened recently to cause Amazon to changer their view of Parler?

    Amazon isn’t making a moral, courageous, or virtuous choice. They’ve explicitly funded political violence that’s been going on at a much larger scale. They’re doing that because they think it’s in their best interests. So far, they’ve been right.

    I’d be interested in whether you can find any official Amazon statement condemning political violence generally. I think they’re smart enough to phrase it so violence for a “greater truth” is still ok.

    frosty (f27e97)

  77. @79, so….good for them for speaking out against terrorism here? They seemed to be ok with the crazy things Parler users said until it became clear that they weren’t just bluster. Once it was clear that

    1. lots of people on Parler meant the crazy threats of terrorism they were making.
    2. Parler wasn’t able/willing to do anything about it

    AWS kicked them off.

    I mean, if I show up at the capital with hundred of rounds of ammo and a pickup full of moltov cocktails will you let me use your garage to make flyers about how Trump only lost due to fraud and we all need to be ready to start killing on 1/20?

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  78. Time123 (ca85c9) — 1/16/2021 @ 11:34 am

    Acting as if the terrorism on 1/6 wasn’t what made them change their position, and that this is just white guys getting picked on is silly.

    Ah, I’m a racist now too? That doesn’t make civil conversation easy. The argument goes to you in that case.

    frosty (f27e97)

  79. Here’s some business tips for building an “web” business:

    Never bet your business on someone else being more/less respectable than you.

    Never bet your business on someone else’s hobby.

    Never allow your business to be held hostage by an unruly customer.

    Always have a backup plan.

    Don’t pi$$ off your landlord if you a paying month to month.

    Also, if Parler wanted to be the equivalent of verbal porn, they should have examined how the porn industry built their business.

    Also, also, contracts exist. The TOS for an AWS customer gives Amazon significant rights to cancel your access, you also have rights to cancel. I’ve negotiated AWS hosting agreements that were for 3 years and more than a billion dollars, and even when they’re negotiating with a bulge bracket FS company, there are a myriad of terms that allow Amazon to cancel, even with no notice. Parler attached their terms with Amazon, they had no special agreement, if you signed up for an S3 instance today, you get the same terms as Parler had.

    The reality is that Parler was never a business, it was a glorified hobby that only became popular due to their “customers” being too vile for their data to be valuable to advertisers who pay actual money, hence the boot from the places that advertisers pay all the monies too.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  80. I didn’t say or mean to imply that you were racist. Sorry that it came across that way.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  81. by popular I mean “popular”.

    Parler’s user count was less than Grindr’s.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  82. Ah, I see, it’s not about the insurrection and terrorist coordination that Parler facilitated knowingly, it’s about Amazon being bad and actually enforcing agreements. Darn that capitalism and free market.

    Parler is free to shift to Azure, or GCP, or IBM, or going to Best Buy and loading up on PC’s on a Spectrum connection.

    Contracts exist even in a free market.

    You may think Amazon is bad, but Parler’s evil.

    but SQUIRREL and stuff.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  83. Time123 (ca85c9) — 1/16/2021 @ 11:59 am

    Understood. I can see how you didn’t mean it. But it’s sort of embedded in your comment. Why care about “white” guy’s whining? Unless it’s because you’re white or maybe unless you’re a whiny white guy? But either way, it’s just white guys getting what they deserve right? Maybe, and I know this is out there and I’m not meaning offense, you’re not willing to seriously think about the free speech implications because it’s just white guys whining?

    Do you think you know my ethnicity? I don’t think I’ve ever said. I try to limit any personal comments about myself. But it sounds like you do since you invoked the white guy rule #14 and #3: any other white guy with ammo (#3) and a pickup (#14) can use your garage in comment @80. If I’m reading the white guy handbook correctly not only would I need to help make the flyers but I’d be required to provide beer if the other guy bought a pizza (jokes, it’s jokes, I don’t have the white guy handbook).

    In the back and forth between you and I over BLM have I ever said anything remotely equivalent? I’ve got strong feelings about BLM but I don’t dismiss it as black guys whining.

    frosty (f27e97)

  84. After seeing people cut-and-paste the 14 points of fascism in different places, I thought I’d see where it came from, and it started at the gift shop in the Holocaust Museum, and here’s the original article. Compare and contrast…

    Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of similarity.
    1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
    2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
    3. Identification of enemies/scape-goats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and0 disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.4. The supremacy of the military/ avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
    5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
    6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
    7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
    8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
    9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.
    10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
    11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
    12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.
    13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
    14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

    On #14, Trump’s Election Fraud Hoax is itself an attempt to defraud the November 3rd election. IMO, we’re closer to fascism today than four years ago, and the January 6th insurrection and Congressional objections are nothing short of fascist behavior.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  85. Crap, that should’ve been in the open thread.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  86. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 1/16/2021 @ 12:20 pm

    Parler is free to shift to Azure, or GCP, or IBM, or going to Best Buy and loading up on PC’s on a Spectrum connection.

    This has been proven false. Repeating this given what we know now is intentionally saying something that is factually untrue.

    You should just go with nk’s description. Might makes right and money rules. It has the advantage of at least being honest.

    frosty (f27e97)

  87. @frosty@89 You can do your own web hosting and service, but it’s expensive, may require locating in specific places (or sometimes countries 😛 ), and requires employees to maintain your services. If Parler wanted to do that, it would probably require that they make it a paid or partially paid service.

    Nic (896fdf)

  88. This has been proven false. Repeating this given what we know now is intentionally saying something that is factually untrue.

    Has it? Can you show me there actions to rehost their application?

    Can you show me that any provider refused them, you know, before facilitating and promoting terrorism got them internet famous?

    Can you show me their due diligence to provide minimal security, such that when their orchestration provider (BTW it was Twillio that took them down, Amazon was actually secondary to their going offline) dumped them, minimal security wasn’t in place to insure that admin rights couldn’t be added without even an email confirmation?

    Can you show me where they had a back up plan that allowed there service to be portable to any hosting provider, you know if AWS went down for any reason? Again, before the whole Nazi/terrorism thing made them known outside of the terrorists and Nazi’s…and you know, some good people too, I assume.

    Since you seem to be in the know, can you point me to something that defines what their application architecture, container architecture, and distribution architecture are, and the evidence that providers refused them, in 2019, 2020? I’d like to see those documents to figure out what that’s a secret that only frosty knows.

    You claim as fact that which is not.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  89. Time123 (ca85c9) — 1/16/2021 @ 11:59 am

    Understood. I can see how you didn’t mean it. But it’s sort of embedded in your comment. Why care about “white” guy’s whining? Unless it’s because you’re white or maybe unless you’re a whiny white guy? But either way, it’s just white guys getting what they deserve right? Maybe, and I know this is out there and I’m not meaning offense, you’re not willing to seriously think about the free speech implications because it’s just white guys whining?

    Do you think you know my ethnicity? I don’t think I’ve ever said. I try to limit any personal comments about myself. But it sounds like you do since you invoked the white guy rule #14 and #3: any other white guy with ammo (#3) and a pickup (#14) can use your garage in comment @80. If I’m reading the white guy handbook correctly not only would I need to help make the flyers but I’d be required to provide beer if the other guy bought a pizza (jokes, it’s jokes, I don’t have the white guy handbook).

    In the back and forth between you and I over BLM have I ever said anything remotely equivalent? I’ve got strong feelings about BLM but I don’t dismiss it as black guys whining.

    frosty (f27e97) — 1/16/2021 @ 1:36 pm

    Frosty, Thank you for accepting my apology in good faith. One of the things about Trump that frustrates me is they way that white nationalism and populism have taken over the GOP. Many of the people outraged at what AWS did have shown no interest in free speech in the past and seem to be mostly motivated because they see it a slight to their tribe. I’m not saying you’re included in this, and I should have tailored my remarks better to who I was speaking with.

    Regarding Free Speech. As I’ve said before, I see this a two virtues in conflict. The rights of people to do what they like with their property, and free speech.

    The jokes about the white guy handbook were pretty funny btw. 😀

    Time123 (509802)

  90. So the my pillow guy did a subsequent interview on Facebook (you know where Trumpista’s are totally censored). If anything needs to get pulled down it’s this kind of sh…crap, but it exists in the forever now. Kind of makes you wonder if he’s still a crackhead.

    Lindell: It was the security advisor Robert O’Brien. He brings me upstairs. And the president said, bring him up to lawyers, show ‘em this and come back down. . . . They bring me back downstairs and I wait about 10 minutes. . . . I had the stuff in my hand which I was now bringing it up to the lawyers. . . . I sat down with the two, the one lawyer is all upset with me. . . . I show them all this . . . you can see who did it, on the computer, how many votes were flipped…

    Lindell: This is an attack on our country by China and other countries that did this to us…

    Lindell: So I left there with a deflating feeling. . . . Mike Lindell wants the truth to be told to everyone in this country and everyone in the world to show that this was the biggest election fraud in the history of the world as far as I’m concerned. . . . We got videotape of them shredding all the ballots made in China and an invoice from China. . . .

    Lindell: God’s got His hands in all and all this stuff will be revealed. And the longer it goes on you are finding more of the rats that pop up, the evil . . .

    RSBN Interviewer: What about…the Insurrection Act or Martial Law?

    Lindell: Four pages that I brought to the president which was that evidence for the big machine switch. . . . Here’s all his options he could do. Basically it laid out all the options. One of the things the president really liked on there was Google, Facebook, Twitter he has the authority to order them to put everybody’s back intact their Facebook and their Twitters back. . . . He turned to that Robert O’Brien and said “Yeah we could do this.”

    RSBN Interviewer: What is your sense of the presence of the military here? Is it over the top?

    Lindell: I don’t understand it. You know there’s like three people and every other person’s a military guy. . . . We’ve all had our prayers going, “Gee maybe somethings gonna be done that this president is willing to say hey we’ve been attacked by another country cause we have. Our countries been under attack for a long time.”

    RSBN Interviewer: I think people are hoping that this military presence is a response to what you just said.

    Lindell: That’s where my hope lies. . . .

    Lindell: One more thing. . . . You can’t hide this. I don’t care how much they corrupt the media and take away our platforms, there’s 100 million people that know our nation’s been stolen.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  91. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 1/16/2021 @ 2:37 pm

    Based on this I wonder how much you know about the details. They were dropped by all of their vendors including their attorneys. They were dropped from CDNs and DNS providers. They’ve described attempting to go to other hosting providers who told them no. They were booted from AWS before having a chance to copy data.

    Your now playing a game about how they should have had a design that would have dealt with every vendor cutting them off and at the same time saying they should have just conformed to the will of the mob.

    Might makes right and money rules.

    Nic (896fdf) — 1/16/2021 @ 1:57 pm

    It’s not just their hosting provider. They were shutout from all services needed to run any operation at scale including payment processing. However you feel about Parler there’s evidence that the tech oligarchs can keep you from doing your own thing, at least in the US, at least for now.

    frosty (f27e97)

  92. I just watched it, Klink. I liked the part where he said the vote totals were intentionally flipped in cyberspace: Trump actually won with 78m votes and Biden lost with 68m votes.

    Dana (cc9481)

  93. I want to know where the “cyberspace” is. It’s…disconcerting that this guy has access to a president, he makes Jimmy Carter look like a roads skoller.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  94. It’s not just their hosting provider. They were shutout from all services needed to run any operation at scale including payment processing. However you feel about Parler there’s evidence that the tech oligarchs can keep you from doing your own thing, at least in the US, at least for now.

    It’s almost like when websites start promoting extremism, violence, sedition, and terrorism; professional organizations stop supporting them. Who knew?

    Maybe if your business plan is terror, maybe the business plan is bad.

    I get it, you don’t like that your Parler ID is now publicly trackable to your IP, MAC, user name, cookie history, GeoTagged data, email, password, posts, likes, views…because they didn’t bother with even high school level security.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  95. 45. Nic (896fdf) — 1/15/2021 @ 7:59 pm

    the current executive branch is in charge of vaccine distribution and f’ed that up because they didn’t bother to make a plan.

    No. Because they did

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/15/opinion/coronavirus-vaccine.html

    Speed Up Vaccinations and Reduce the Red Tape ….hile there is no one best way to roll out a vaccine in short supply, we’ve seen the wrong way — distributing it too slowly; setting up a complicated maze that needs to be navigated for access; and punitively micromanaging the process, which stalls it further.

    We should focus on speed and access, not on punitive efforts to ensure strict adherence to complicated eligibility rules. Micromanaging the vaccination process to make sure these rules are never departed from is more likely to contribute to slowing us down and wasting vaccines, not to fairness.,,,,

    After a local health care clinic in New York apparently distributed some vaccines to people in the neighborhood who weren’t health care workers, Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed an executive order declaring that people who vaccinate others outside of prioritization protocols will be fined up to $1 million and risk losing their licenses. There have been similar punitive threats in California, warning medical personnel they could lose their licenses if they vaccinate the wrong person — meanwhile, California is one of the very slowest states at distributing its supply.

    Unfortunately, and predictably, though, such restrictions quickly resulted in vaccines being thrown out when medical providers couldn’t quickly find people who fit the strict criteria. Even in hospitals, some medical personnel haven’t been vaccinated because they’ve “been thwarted by the process” — setting up accounts, wrangling the technology. And I doubt that any of this is making the process any fairer. If similar gatekeeping efforts are any guide, when hard-to-navigate barriers are set up — even ostensibly to ensure fairness — they often act to bring about even more unfairness…

    …Simpler schemas are less likely to be gamed by the privileged. The C.D.C. has recommended that everyone over 65 be eligible for vaccination, and that requires nothing more than an ID or a declaration required for proof — we’re not going to get overrun by 20-year-olds showing up pretending they are 65.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  96. @ Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca) — 1/16/2021 @ 6:15 pm

    I think that’s more a case of bad state level planning.

    IDK how it is in other states, but in Cali every care home and group living situation is registered. Every hospital and every health clinic and every private school and school district. Each of those has a list of their employees. Most of those places have medical personnel who could give the shot, so all they need to do is contact HR for the required numbers of shots and then send them on to the employer who can have their own medical personnel give their employees the shots.

    Frex, my district has a few nurses. They could give each nurse a certain number of schools and a list of employees and a day at each school, tell us what day to come in and we’d all come in and line up across the lunch yard at 6 ft intervals in masks to get our shots and the nurse could check us off as we went along. We know our coworkers, so it wouldn’t be like you could slip in your rich uncle bob from Napa.

    Nic (896fdf)

  97. Time123 (509802) — 1/16/2021 @ 4:17 pm

    The jokes about the white guy handbook were pretty funny btw. 😀

    I’m glad. Sometimes I run out of arguments and jokes are all I’ve got.

    Many of the people outraged at what AWS did have shown no interest in free speech in the past and seem to be mostly motivated because they see it a slight to their tribe. I’m not saying you’re included in this

    I’d say that even if I were you either believe something or you don’t. Personally, I think free speech is so important that I’d stand up for far worse than qanon and #stopthesteal. That doesn’t mean I stand with them. I think qanon is interesting from the standpoint of studying conspiracy theories and psyops but I don’t agree with it. However, I can’t speak against it without knowing about it and just because you don’t see it on Twitter doesn’t mean it’s not there.

    I don’t agree with BLM but I agree completely on the issue of police violence. I don’t stand with BLM because I think, at the core, they are marxists who’ve found an issue to exploit for other ends. I’m just as interested in police violence but right now that means I don’t have many ways to be effective on that issue.

    I see this a two virtues in conflict. The rights of people to do what they like with their property, and free speech.

    I agree. It is a conflict. But corporations are legal fictions of the state and the conflict isn’t between equal virtues. Corporations are not people and although we have granted certain legal rights to them using that metaphor those rights are not equal to individuals.

    frosty (f27e97)

  98. Her complaint is that the federal plan was that there was no federal plan, her specific complaints are the maze of localities trying to figure out how to navigate the nebulous plan from the federal government, and the complete lack of visibility as to who is getting shipped vaccines when, where, why, how many, and when is the resupply coming.

    Vaccines don’t prevent disease, vaccinations do, which requires buildings, arms, vaccines, syringes, needles, and delivery people to all be at the same place at the same time.

    The lack of a federal plan for logistics, means that the federal administration guidelines are pointless, not just pointless, but harmful. If you don’t know what and where, knowing who doesn’t help. Plus, now the states (down to the grocery store and local pharmacy) need to figure out how to register those people, 9 months after a group effort could have already completed it, but that requires planning…and money.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  99. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 1/16/2021 @ 6:14 pm

    At least you’ve stopped hiding behind principles. That’s some progress at least.

    But you’ve shifted back to ad hominem. One step forward and two steps back. Or is it one step sideways and one of those hat and cane shuffles?

    frosty (f27e97)

  100. [invoke the] Insurrection Act now as a result of the assault on the

    Capitol.

    [and declare] martial law if necessary upon the first hint of any [two or three words follow before ]

    It’s reported that the only thing Trump was really interested in was a proposal to force Facebook Twitter and YouTube [Google] to put everybody back. This = was not on ths sheet of paper that was photographed. Trump regarded that as realistic.

    According to the Washington Post, according to Lindell, Trump sent Lindell to Cipollone for advice on whether any of the other ideas were legally possible. Cipollone did not let him back in to see the President.

    Q.. If what was struck out was a recommendation to fire Cipollone (which is what the New York Times says) when was that struck out? It had to after it was printed which means it was still on the menu pretty late. But it was before that picture was taken. Which was when?

    One way of understanding it was that the Lindell came up with the idea of consulting the White House sounsel’s office, which was not in the mind of the person who prepared the list of acts to be done immediately. When Trump demurred, Lindell had to cross that out.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  101. Or maybe O’Brien said: “Let’s see if any of this is legal.”

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  102. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 1/16/2021 @ 6:14 pm

    I get it, you don’t like that your Parler ID is now publicly trackable to your IP, MAC, user name, cookie history, GeoTagged data, email, password, posts, likes, views…because they didn’t bother with even high school level security.

    Are you referring to this hack?

    Because the person behind that said

    “Only things that were available publicly via the web were archived. I don’t have you e-mail address, phone or credit card number. unless you posted it yourself on Parler,” she stated on Twitter.

    That seems different from what you said. Why is that different? Are you talking about a different hack? I’m starting to wonder if you are intentionally misrepresenting facts, and ones that are easy to check. Please tell me I overlooked the hack you’re talking about.

    frosty (f27e97)

  103. Whenever I see MyPillow, I think: “Chicken feathers. Cheap, chopped, chicken feathers” from a Dick Van Dyke Show episode. Then I track to “How do you get down from an elephant” joke from “Garfield Goose” with Frazier Thomas (who was also the ringmaster of “Bozo’s Circus”).

    nk (1d9030)

  104. I think QAnon is interesting from the same standpoint as the Nigerian Prince scam. If a person is intellectually challenged to the point that they believe that nonsense, then they are intellectually challenged enough to vote for Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, and Donald Trump.

    Because, comrades, the conundrum is not how Trump lost in 2020. The conundrum is how he won in 2016.

    nk (1d9030)

  105. Hoe he won the nomination. The answer is simple: Nobody could or would take him on in an argument.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  106. I’ll reassert what I asserted earlier, Sammy. The Republican Party legitimized Trump and along with him the kooks and deplorables. Like a cheap floozy who took in a new boyfriend and all his friends and relations.

    nk (1d9030)

  107. That seems different from what you said. Why is that different? Are you talking about a different hack? I’m starting to wonder if you are intentionally misrepresenting facts, and ones that are easy to check. Please tell me I overlooked the hack you’re talking about.

    frosty (f27e97) — 1/16/2021 @ 6:59 pm

    You can learn more about what Parler data is out there and where it’s been put from this discussion.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  108. That seems different from what you said. Why is that different? Are you talking about a different hack? I’m starting to wonder if you are intentionally misrepresenting facts, and ones that are easy to check. Please tell me I overlooked the hack you’re talking about.

    frosty (f27e97) — 1/16/2021 @ 6:59 pm

    So you’ve been flabbing about all day without actually knowing any background at all? Why am I not surprised in the least.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  109. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 1/16/2021 @ 7:54 pm

    At least Dustin sent something that was funny. Maybe Dustin’s comment was meant for you.

    Nothing to backup your claims but personal attacks? I’ve been flabbing all day? I’d really like to know if what you say is true but it sounds like I’ll be disappointed. Dustin gets it’s, give humor a try.

    frosty (f27e97)

  110. INSURRECTION! SEDITION! Please. What Mike Lindell brought to Trump was no more far-fetched or out of bounds than Jeffrey Toobin’s Not-So-Big Election Exercise. No one who was arrested at the Capital actually planned their ATTACKS AGAINST DEMOCRACY on Parler, they used Facebook and Twitter, which aren’t getting banned. Nothing ‘revolutionary’ has happened except for the DNC and Silicon Valley officially joining at the hip, and now Silicon Valley following the Party’s lead in purging everyone too effectively communicating on the right or left for the Party to tolerate.

    Liberalism had already driven more than 14 million additional people into Trump’s arms in just four years–far from Trump’s “tone” and “bad tweets” alienating the public, he was regarded as a refuge against an increasingly totalitarian establishment ruling through fear and hysteria. Many of these people had checked out of politics in resignation at the unappealing choice between power mad liberals and corrupt conservatives, and Trump brought them back into the game. I sense that there are even more who will be ready to come over in four years’ time.

    Whether they do so as part of the Republican party, or as a part of party politics in particular is another question entirely. But repeating lies constantly without evidence other than footnotes you fabricated yourself on the assumption that every person in the world is going to be as forgiving as the teachers you flattered growing up rarely brings good results.

    Pillow Fears (70e6a9)

  111. No one who was arrested at the Capital actually planned their ATTACKS AGAINST DEMOCRACY on Parler, they used Facebook and Twitter, which aren’t getting banned

    If only every post and video for the last year on Parler were available. If only.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  112. It helps to get out of the house. For example, today I heard:

    Two impeachments and no “lewinsky”?

    nk (1d9030)


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