Patterico's Pontifications

11/21/2020

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 12:01 am



[guest post by Dana]

Here are a few timely news items for you to consider. Feel free to share anything that you think might interest readers. Please remember to include links.

First news item

Michigan GOP sticks to the law:

“We have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan and as legislative leaders, we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan’s electors…Michigan’s certification process should be a deliberate process free from threats and intimidation…And the candidates who win the most votes win elections and Michigan’s electoral votes. These are simple truths that should provide confidence in our elections.”

Second news item

Family affair:

Donald Trump Jr., President Donald Trump’s eldest son, has tested positive for the coronavirus, a personal spokesman told CNN on Friday.

“Don tested positive at the start of the week and has been quarantining out at his cabin since the result,” the spokesman said. “He’s been completely asymptomatic so far and is following all medically recommended COVID-19 guidelines.”

Related:

Rudy Giuliani’s son, Andrew, announced Friday he has tested positive for coronavirus, a day after he attended a news conference with his father and other members of President Donald Trump’s legal team alleging baseless claims of widespread election fraud.

“This morning, I tested positive for COVID-19,” the younger Giuliani wrote on Twitter. “I am experiencing mild symptoms, and am following all appropriate protocols, including being in quarantine and conducting contact tracing.”

Third news item

NRO editorial board’s collective snort:

The Rudy Giuliani–led press conference at the RNC yesterday was the most outlandish and irresponsible performance ever by a group of lawyers representing a president of the United States.

If Giuliani’s charge of a “national conspiracy” to produce fraudulent votes in Democratic cities around the country wasn’t far-fetched enough, attorney Sidney Powell ratcheted it up with the allegation that Communist-designed election machinery was used to change the vote from a Trump landslide to a narrow Biden victory. An obvious question is why, if you can manipulate the vote count via machine, you’d need to bother with old-fashioned fraudulent ballots. Powell’s story is that the surprisingly strong Trump turnout “broke the algorithm” of the corrupted machines, and then the fraudulent ballots were desperately hauled in to make up the difference.

If there’s serious evidence for any of this, Giuliani and co. need to produce it immediately. Waving around affidavits at a press conference without allowing anyone to examine them doesn’t count.

Fourth news item

Georgia certifies election results:

Georgia’s governor and top elections official on Friday certified results showing Joe Biden won the presidential race over Republican President Donald Trump, bringing the state one step closer to wrapping up an election fraught with unfounded accusations of fraud by Trump and his supporters.

Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger certified results reported by the state’s 159 counties that show Biden with 2.47 million votes, President Donald Trump with 2.46 million votes and Libertarian Jo Jorgensen with 62,138. That leaves Biden leading by a margin of 12,670 votes, or 0.25%.

Fifth news item

Why Gov. Newsom, who angered Californians when he was seen dining inside of a restaurant last week defying his own guidelines, and then claimed that he dined outside until photographic evidence proved otherwise, would blow any political capital he has left by instituting a curfew is beyond me. Apparently, he feels pressured to *do something*:

California Governor Gavin Newsom on Thursday issued a temporary curfew throughout most of the state in an effort to slow the spread of coronavirus. The order, which goes into effect Saturday, stops gatherings and non-essential work between 10 p.m. and 5 a.m. in areas under the state’s purple tier label, where virus transmission is considered widespread.

P.S. Shelling out $350 for one dinner at the French Laundry during a pandemic when so many Californians are out of work isn’t a good look for the governor either.

Sixth news item

Congressman Tom McClintock wants Americans to make their own decisions, with no interference from the government, whether at the federal or state level:

I have wondered how much longer the American people are going to tolerate this nonsense?

So let us not criticize Governor Newsom. Perhaps he has just offered us all deliverance from his own folly.

Nor should we criticize the California legislators who ignored travel and quarantine restrictions to junket to Hawaii. Nor should we ridicule Speaker Pelosi for choosing not to wear a mask in a hair salon that was forced to close for the rest of us.

Good for them. They’re demonstrating by their own actions the freedom that every American citizen needs to reclaim from these very same people. The governor SHOULD make his own decisions about running his own life. I only ask that he and his ilk would stop telling the rest of us how to run ours.”

Seventh news item

BLM to Biden: we delivered you the presidency, now let’s get down to business:

Joe Biden is staying silent over a meeting with Black Lives Matter almost two weeks after one of the movement’s founders asked for a sit-down.

Patrisse Cullors said Biden has yet to respond to her request for a meeting to discuss BLM’s ‘expectataions’ after an election that she said was ‘won by Black people’.

Cullors said she wants Biden to quickly pass the BREATHE Act, which would defund police services in reinvest the money in community services.

BLM is also pressuring Gov. Newsom to appoint a black woman to replace Kamala Harris’s soon-to-be-vacant Senate seat.

Eighth news item

NYT working hard to fill their, uh, dearth of lefty opinion writers:

Vox co-founder and editor-at-large Ezra Klein will be leaving the outlet to join The New York Times as a columnist and podcast host.

Times Opinion announced the addition Friday in a statement from editors Kathleen Kingsbury and Paula Szuchman, who wrote that Klein “will be able to help our readers and listeners navigate the political future as Washington moves into a new era.”

Tenth news item

Keeping the grift going:

The Trump campaign has sent more than 300 fundraising appeals via email since Nov. 4, the day after the election. Most are seeking donations for an “official election defense fund,” as President Trump continues to question the integrity of the race he lost. But the fine print shows as much as 75 percent of that money can be repurposed for the president’s new leadership political action committee, “Save America.”

Related: Trump’s true believers:

In Sundown, Texas, Mayor Jonathan Strickland said there’s “no way in hell” Biden won fairly. The only way he’ll believe it, he said, is if Trump himself says so.

“Trump is the only one we’ve been able to trust for the last four years,” said Strickland, an oilfield production engineer. “As far as the civil war goes, I don’t think it’s off the table.”

Asked whether Trump might be duping his followers, he said it’s hard to fathom.

“If I’m being manipulated by Trump … then he is the greatest con man that ever lived in America,” Caleb Fryar said. “I think he’s the greatest patriot that ever lived.”

Have a great weekend.

–Dana

386 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilsv0C1-aBw

    By the way, did you know that Billy Joel sold out Madison Square Gardens more times than any other performer in history? When KISS first played there, they were ecstatic. “Top of the world, Mom!” But even they, who have played to sold out concerts all over the world–they broke the record for largest paid concert attendance set by Queen in Brazil, only later to be exceeded by Alice Cooper–even they couldn’t match Billy Joel at Madison Square Gardens. Just a thought.

    You may be right
    I may be crazy
    Oh, but I just may be a lunatic you’re looking for

    You may be wrong but all I know you may be right . . . You may be wrong but you may be right . . .

    Trump is a total fraud.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  2. For awhile only 50% of the election fighting donations were going to retire campaign debt. Now it’s 75%. Seems like there’s the faint smell of desperation.

    Anyway, I’ve yet to hear a cogent argument by Trump supporters as to why not begin the transition process with Biden, given that doing so does not have anything to do with certifying the election, and if by some miracle Trump wins reelection, he can always just stop the transition planning.

    What is the harm of attempting to plan for the most probable thing, Biden’s presidency? Other than the harm to Trump’s ego which appears to be the most fragile known object on the planet.

    The truculent unwillingness of Republicans to push for this seems in part also to stem from their general antigovernment attitude. If you don’t believe government can work you’re not particularly interested in how to make it work better or provide the conditions for its success.

    Victor (4959fb)

  3. Psychologically, it’s known as confirmation bias and contradiction denial.

    Once people begin or are led to believe something, they will look for anything, not matter how flimsy, to confirm their belief, and deny any evidence, no matter how concrete, that contradicts their belief.

    This is what is happening now. Trump is a total fraud, and a complete failure. This is evident. Yet his cult fans keep singing his praises.

    The mark will always praise the con man, even after he or she has lost everything. This is evident as well.

    Their principles, their beliefs, out the window. And these people call themselves Christians and conservatives?

    The Gratuitous Obsequious Party is obscene. Who in the GOP is willing to stand up and say this is disgraceful and disgusting. Not many, only a few. That says a lot.

    I won’t be voting for any Trupmlican. I’ll be voting Libertarian where I can and Democrat where I must, but I won’t vote for any Trumplican.

    This is the end of the story.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  4. Once people begin or are led to believe something, they will look for anything, not matter how flimsy, to confirm their belief, and deny any evidence, no matter how concrete, that contradicts their belief.
    Their principles, their beliefs, out the window. And these people call themselves Christians and conservatives?

    Gawain, I must say that these two graphs contradict each other. First, you argue that people will stick to a belief, no matter what. Then you accuse these same people of abandoning their beliefs. Perhaps you confuse two different belief sets – yours and theirs?

    Finally, “and these people call themselves Christians?” is a question that reveals a misunderstanding of what it is to be a Christian. Basically, it means to be a follower of Christ. The way to follow Christ is extremely easy, but the world, the flesh, and the devil make it seem extremely hard because of the imposed costs, both real and imagined.

    Yes, some Trumpists, some anti-Trumpists, some of everyone in between do call themselves Christians. What of it? Sinners sin! Why do you think they follow Christ?

    felipe (023cc9)

  5. Gahh! I should have said “statements,” not “graphs.” I’ll sit down before I hurt myself.

    felipe (023cc9)

  6. After four years of having that con man in the Oval Office, I didn’t think anything would surprise me. But I’m aghast at the numbers of people who are opening wide to swallow the BS he has been serving them these past few weeks. The Rudy and Sidney clown show–billed as a press conference–ought to have made everyone in the nation cringe, and even those who still cling desperately to waning hope ought to be demanding that the allegedly damning evidence and affidavits be shown. They ought to, but they are not. We can only be grateful that, at this point, such true believers are still a minority, though not a small enough one.

    Roger (5daebb)

  7. > Shelling out $350 for one dinner at the French Laundry during a pandemic when so many Californians are out of work isn’t a good look for the governor either.

    This is the reality of class in the US. That’s just how they live. This is how and why the Resident’s entourage/legal team just crippled itself by infecting each other. Anyone else remember Paul Ryan’s $350 lobbyist wine?

    This is the US political class. I don’t think hiding the sickness is going to help fix it.

    john (cd2753)

  8. The former federal prosecutor Sidney Powell was making all of these wild claims at the Rudy meltdown. Former federal prosecutor?

    That crazy box of confirmation bias was a prosecutor with years of prosecutions under her watch. Somebody needs to check on those cases. I am not a lawyer like some of you but this doesn’t make me feel confident in our judicial system.

    noel (9fead1)

  9. I doubt if Sidney Powell has ever tried a case to verdict. I haven’t read of one. She was an appeals lawyer as an Assistant US Attorney, where the real work had been done by the trial prosecutors and all she basically had to do was show up and present the trial record they had made. Like everything else having to do with Trump, there’s less to her than meets the eye.

    nk (1d9030)

  10. Well, felipe, I have my beliefs and I actually follow them. I happen to be a Catholic, but that’s irrelevant to this discussion.

    I also happen to be a Libertarian, or a classical liberal. What I am offended by is religious prosecution and partisan disography. This has to end.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  11. As much as I despise Trump, genuinely consider him evil in biblical proportions, many of the Trump fans I know are great people, they are almost exclusively Christian, and they really try to live up to it. It is bizarre to me, but they just don’t see his awful, selfish behavior as a decisive factor, because they see the stakes as too high, or are focused on ‘the other side’ or even believe what’s said of Trump is a massive deception, and that Trump really is a great family man who loves America. Even today, with all the damage he’s doing to our country, they would call him a patriot.

    As Felipe says, the qualification to be a Christian is actually not that complicated and like Trump, Jesus hung out with prostitutes and rarely went to a church.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  12. The truculent unwillingness of Republicans to push for this seems in part also to stem from their general antigovernment attitude.

    Does that explain why Democrat Al Gore didn’t concede until Dec. 13?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  13. BNP, no one here likes Al Gore, but that was a very, very close election, where recounts at least made sense. And Gore was mocked a lot for being a sore loser.

    Trump got clobbered and is more than a sore loser, he’s happily holding the nation’s future hostage for some kind of deal to avoid criminal prosecution.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  14. As always, beer ‘n pretzels provides the explanation why Trump has so many supporters. They are the people who don’t know the difference between 1,784 disputed votes in one state and several hundred thousand votes in half a dozen states. You know … “One, two, three, four, lebenteen, lots, ain’t that right, Bubba?”

    nk (1d9030)

  15. @14: Bubba seems to know the difference between virtually all votes cast at polling places in person on election day versus virtually all votes cast by mail through a dubious chain of custody and no voter ID.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  16. Size matters. Biden’s is bigger.

    nk (1d9030)

  17. Well, beer, the fact that there were a lot of mail in ballots this year isn’t going to change from now right on through Jan. 20th. If that’s going to be the excuse for not letting Biden start the transition, well it’s a pretty shabby excuse.

    As for 2000, as noted it was a closer election with a litigation process a lot more likely to lead to Gore’s success than whatever schemes Rudy is now in charge of. But more to the point, looking back, people have noted that the shortened transition was a bad thing, that was one of the factors leaving Bush less prepared for Al Qaeda. You’d think people would want to learn from that. But instead it’s an eternal game of What About, where Republicans are allowed, in fact determined to do anything Democrats did, even if everybody agrees the example was a mistake.

    I feel it’s like conservation of mass. For any Republican error there must inherently exist an equal and or more grievous Democratic error that excuses any Republican failure.

    Victor (4959fb)

  18. But instead it’s an eternal game of What About, where Republicans are allowed, in fact determined to do anything Democrats did, even if everybody agrees the example was a mistake.

    I hope someday Al Gore is allowed to recover from his ignominy.

    The eternal game that gets played is pretending that it’s anything close to how you’ve described it.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  19. Jonah Goldberg is, uh, not amused:

    Tucker Carlson’s getting a lot of praise for calling B.S. on Powell’s allegations. I’m glad he’s doing it, even if I have problems with his late conversion to Trump-skepticism. I also have issues with acting like Powell is just freelancing here. She and Giuliani are doing Trump’s bidding, so this isn’t just Powell’s deranged theory—it’s the sitting president’s theory, too. We can all laugh or shake our head as Rudy Giuliani spews nonsense to the point where someone would be forgiven for thinking his leaking hair dye was literally bullshit seeping out of his head. That doesn’t change what he’s trying to do.

    So Tucker is right when he says, “What Powell was describing would amount to the single greatest crime in American history.” And he’s right that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    But he doesn’t close the circle. If our political system were sufficiently sclerotic and decadent that Powell’s con yielded the results she desires, it would be the greatest crime in American history, too. I don’t see the moral difference between stealing the election using cutting-edge Venezuelan algorithms and stealing the election by peddling deranged nonsense about Venezuelan algorithms.

    Great stuff, read it all.

    Dave (1bb933)

  20. D’oh – moderated for quoting a bad word!

    Dave (1bb933)

  21. Very well put, Victor.

    It’s one of the main take-aways from 9/11. If we have a severe attack next year it will be yet another terrible price of Trump fanatics putting Dear Leader over the USA.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  22. “but they just don’t see his awful, selfish behavior as a decisive factor, because they see the stakes as too high, or are focused on ‘the other side’ or even believe what’s said of Trump is a massive deception”

    I see this in talking with relatives….they believe at his core, Trump genuinely shares their values and they’ve been sold on the idea that without Trump, the country will suffer greatly. The word socialism is used a lot…..though I try to remind them that we are not a parliamentary government. This is the problem with the dyfunction in our news media….we have given up on unbiased news reporting….and telling it like it is….everything is spin and people fall for it.

    “And these people call themselves Christians”

    Christians are no less immune to confirmation bias….and may actually be more susceptible to it in some matters…especially Biblical inerrancy…and establishing what Jesus would advise on matters xyz. Serial misrepresentation of facts is only sinful if you know what the actual facts are. A lot of people simply believe what they want to believe and will only seek out sources that reinforce those beliefs. Election fraud is in the mind of the beholder.

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  23. For as long as he’s been President, Trump has been trying to devalue the dollar and, thankfully, the Fed has been resisting it.

    His ostensible reason is that it would help with foreign trade. I thought that it was so he could pay off his debts with cheaper dollars, in effect paying off a dollar’s worth of debt with dollars that now can buy only 95 cents’ worth of things.

    I may have discovered the real reason by chance last night. The Russian ruble vs. the dollar took a nosedive under Obama, it had a brief upswing with Trump’s election, but then went back to Obama levels, I imagine much to Putin’s dismay, rending of garments, and gnashing of teeth. In this instance, at least, Trump failed Russia as much as he failed America generally.

    Rabshakeh warned of it in Isaiah 36:

    Lo, thou trustest in the staff of this broken reed, on Trump; whereon if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is the fancy boy of Fifth Avenue to all that trust in him.

    nk (1d9030)

  24. Cullors said she wants Biden to quickly pass the BREATHE Act, which would defund police services in reinvest the money in community services.

    LOL.

    Biden can’t meet with BLM has he spent his whole campaign pretending they don’t exist. So he’s in quit e the quandry: meet with the hard left and piss off his moderates, or ignore the hard left and start losing their support and votes.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  25. I hope someday Al Gore is allowed to recover from his ignominy.

    The eternal game that gets played is pretending that it’s anything close to how you’ve described it

    I have no idea what this is really supposed to mean. It was about 500 votes, officially, out of how many million? Gore had a solid chance if actual examination of ballots had not been shut down by the Supreme Court by a 5-4 decision that had been massively criticized, and which, itself, said probably shouldn’t be used as precedent.

    Florida 2000 was close. Today is a Republican fever dream.

    And, beer, sidetracking yourself down the rabbit hole of Florida 2000, you never actually address the main point – what possible excuse is there now for not letting Biden proceed with a normal transition? How does blocking that comport, in any possible fashion, with good government? The only excuse you feel like giving is to point to Clinton treating Bush badly in 2000.

    That’s not a reason, that’s a tantrum.

    Victor (4959fb)

  26. thats very unfair mr nk

    president donald is printing the benjamins just as fast as he can

    Dave (1bb933)

  27. The only excuse you feel like giving is to point to Clinton treating Bush badly in 2000.

    I was responding directly to your quip that the reason is due to some innate Republican distrust of government.

    Your response was to hand wave about the very marked difference in how voting was done this year, and more of the same “well, the Democrats had a legit beef in 2000”, so what’s new? Didn’t you say earlier what Gore did was a “mistake”? Hard to keep track now.

    Trump is allowed to present his case, less than three weeks after the end of the election, no matter how badly it’s being done. Let it play out. It’s not a coup in the making, but keep pushing that narrative, so when the transition happens smoothly we can look back at the incessant hyperventilating and chuckle. I know you’ll join me in that.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  28. But more to the point, looking back, people have noted that the shortened transition was a bad thing, that was one of the factors leaving Bush less prepared for Al Qaeda.

    It’s such a shame we are delaying Biden’s cozying up to China and going back to funding Iran.

    Marci (138b89)

  29. what possible excuse is there now for not letting Biden proceed with a normal transition?

    Allahpundit (and CNN) explain:

    The President’s refusal to concede, as CNN has previously reported, stems in part from his perceived grievance that Hillary Clinton and former President Barack Obama undermined his own presidency by saying Russia interfered in the 2016 election and could have impacted the outcome, people around him have said.

    Trump continues to hold a grudge against those who he claims undercut his election by pointing to Russian interference efforts, and he has suggested it is fair game to not recognize Joe Biden as the President-elect, even though Clinton conceded on election night in 2016 and the Trump transition was able to begin immediately.

    That smells like a rationalization. I’m sure he understands that any behavior, no matter how destructive, can be deemed acceptable by rank-and-file Republicans so long as it’s presented as a countermeasure to some form of Democratic behavior. “Trump knows he lost but can’t bring himself to concede no matter how much damage he does because his ego can’t bear it” is a bad headline. “Trump knows he lost but he can’t bring himself to concede no matter how much damage he does because he’s making the libs pay for Russiagate” is much easier for righties to digest.

    I think he’s genuinely trying to cling to power and overturn the election and the Russiagate-payback stuff is just a bit of face-saving prepared for if and when he fails. So long as he owns the libs, he didn’t really lose.

    In other words: “Trump Russia collusion”

    Dave (1bb933)

  30. “I won, by the way.”
    –Donald J. Trump, 11/21/2020

    It’s going to be delusion and dishonesty all the way to the bitter end.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  31. It’s not a coup in the making,

    I agree, but in the sense that four-year olds making mud pies in the backyard is not baking apple pies in the kitchen.

    but keep pushing that narrative, so when the transition happens smoothly we can look back at the incessant hyperventilating and chuckle. I know you’ll join me in that.

    I have been chuckling since November 4, with more than an occasional BWA-HA-HAH! The machinery of the government will continue to function just fine no matter how many monkey wrenches Trump tries to throw in.

    nk (1d9030)

  32. Beer,

    So fine, for you anyway it’s not indifference to proper functioning of government, i.e. a blithe assurance that properly beginning the transition any time soon couldn’t have any possible consequences for government functioning well down the road, but purely a punish Democrats for 2000 ? Got it.

    Sure there are differences in voting between now and 2000. And it makes you sore. And it doesn’t change the fact that Biden, based on the voting laws of now, is almost certainly going to be president.

    Trump can present his case all he want on twitter and through Rudy. That’s something different from blocking normal transition processes. The blunt unwillingness of you and other Trump supporters to notice this is a wonder and a caution.

    And Gore made no particular mistake that I can see. He wasn’t in charge of the transition, Clinton was. And if Clinton delayed beginning the transition too long (and I haven’t done the research but assume he did) then yes that was a mistake. So what? Why do Republicans insist that other people’s mistakes justify theirs?

    Marci – What a really dumb complaint. Do you prefer Biden beginning his first day in office with accurate recent intelligence re Iran and China or not?

    Victor (4959fb)

  33. Is there nothing wrong with claiming massive voter fraud, when actual evidence of this is mysteriously underwhelming? Trump makes Chicken Little look reasonable and circumspect. Is this good for democrcy and trust in our institutions? I get that the pandemic opened the door to a lot of mail-in voting….and issues with vote tracking….and voter eligibility verification….and I have no problem with Trump’s lawyers pressing for recounts and investigations where allowed, the problem is with the chief law enforcement official of the country continuing to be so serially careless with facts and insinuations….and supposed conservatives chuckling all the way to the end. Sad.

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  34. Tom McClintock is a carpetbagging jerk who isn’t seen in his district, doesn’t show up to town halls and whose office does not answer phone calls, return voicemails, or return emails. He just likes Washington. (I have family in his district, they are unhappy with his lack of responsiveness and the fact that he doesn’t bother to show up in the district he represents).

    Nic (896fdf)

  35. I see this in talking with relatives….they believe at his core, Trump genuinely shares their values and they’ve been sold on the idea that without Trump, the country will suffer greatly. The word socialism is used a lot…..

    Yep, I have a relative that insits what Trump is doing is basically OK because it won’t work, and in any event the Democrats are more of a threat to our government because “Democrats will make us a communist country, and they want to take our guns.” It must be what talking to an Inquisitor must have been like. To save the faith it’s cool to violate its essence.

    johnnyagreeable (c49787)

  36. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/21/2020 @ 6:26 am

    I, too am Catholic. A person’s faith is never irrelevant to any issue or discussion. Every person’s decisions stems from their beliefs whatever those may be. Our Catholicism demands that we act on our faith, in good faith, in every decision. Otherwise, we are not living our faith. To do this constantly, “without ceasing” is impossible without God’s help. God is always ready to help; we just need to ask, and then trust in that help.

    I no longer consider myself as liberal, conservative, libertarian, or even independent. Each of these label is too limiting and divisive as well as a source of grievance. The only thing that aggrieves me is sin. Starting, always, with my own.

    Let us say a prayer, together*, for each other, asking for final perseverance. Hail Mary…

    Though we may be separated by both time and space, Our prayers are not.

    felipe (023cc9)

  37. Trump is allowed to present his case, less than three weeks after the end of the election, no matter how badly it’s being done. Let it play out. It’s not a coup in the making, but keep pushing that narrative, so when the transition happens smoothly we can look back at the incessant hyperventilating and chuckle. I know you’ll join me in that.

    “Present his case” is a false characterization of an attempt to convince states to simply disregard the choice of their voters and award the votes to Trump despite his having lost. Trump is trying to steal the election and were Biden attempting this exact maneuver, hacks like you would be howling like stuck pigs.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  38. Three armed men walk into a bank and demand money at gunpoint. Beer n pretzels is asked for his opinion. “Are they Republicans?” he asks. The response comes back that it should not matter, but no. “Very well then, arrest them and throw them in prison.” Correction: they are in fact Republicans. “In that case, they are allowed to present their claim for deposits to the bank. Should they not be entitled to them, I’m sure the police will address the matter and you can join me in saying there should have been no hyperventilating over the issue.”

    Patterico (115b1f)

  39. NY Governor Andrew Cuomo Wins Emmy Award For Covid-19 Pressers

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/new-york-elections-government/ny-coronavirus-emmy-awards-cuomo-20201120-l4m2ocxn7fcjrhz2qdyn6nd4oq-story.html

    Because… well, you know how it goes w/this ‘horsesh!t': ‘Americans don’t want to be governed; they wish to be entertained.’ 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  40. Trump is trying to steal the election and were Biden attempting this exact maneuver, hacks like you would be howling like stuck pigs.

    Maybe Trump has a Logan Act move up his sleeve, combined with a felonious leak to WaPo to jumpstart a closed investigation. Or, maybe a suspicious account of a bar conversation in the UK.

    In that case, certainly the Trump critics here wouldn’t be howling.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  41. I like Comment #38

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  42. @38: That scenario has played out countless times the past four years but with wholly different players.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  43. when the transition happens smoothly we can look back at the incessant hyperventilating and chuckle. I know you’ll join me in that.

    Even if it all goes smoothly, a lot of damage has probably already been done. He’s almost certainly not going to concede. At best, he’ll claim that it was rigged but he can’t prove it.

    The polls/surveys I’ve seen about what percentage of Republicans think that the election was rigged are not good. That won’t suddenly go away when Biden takes over.

    JohnnyAgreeable (c49787)

  44. 6.After four years of having that con man in the Oval Office, I didn’t think anything would surprise me. But I’m aghast at the numbers of people who are opening wide to swallow the BS he has been serving them these past few weeks.

    You ain’t seen nothing, yet: ‘The Joe Show’ premieres January 20.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. Gore had a solid chance if actual examination of ballots had not been shut down by the Supreme Court by a 5-4 decision that had been massively criticized, and which, itself, said probably shouldn’t be used as precedent.

    Gore had a chance but he still lost under practically every scenario. While the USSC cut short the State of Florida on remedy, the result came out the way it should’ve.
    It’s pretty shallow for folks to say that Bush v Gore and Trump v Biden are similar. The 2000 election was close but fraud wasn’t a major issue. The 2020 race was not close and fraud isn’t a major issue, except in Trump’s mentally deranged head. There’s no real comparison.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  46. Sometimes the Twitterverse comes up with a good idea.

    Pay everyone $1500 to get vaccine

    It is a stimulus check & big vaccine incentive rolled into one

    Result: more people get vaccine, it saves lives, helps people financially, and the $400 B pays for itself w/ economic boost from ending pandemic.

    I can see the anti-vaxxers going nuclear on it but, for the rest of us, it’s a nice two-fer.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  47. He’s almost certainly not going to concede.

    Does it matter? No. What he’s doing is continuing to dominate the news cycles by keeping the spotlight on him and his team’s theatrics- which apparently are more or less ‘legal’- though extreme- while what Ol’Joe is up to still remains more or less a Delaware mystery; in the shadowed wings w/a few screened, softball questions. The Donald has cancelled his Florida holiday plans. Is a trip to the troops in the Mideast for Thanksgiving o the menu? Perhaps- perhaps not; but wouldn’t be a surprise. It’s amazing how, after four years, so many still don’t get it about this guy. The spotlight will follow him wherever he goes right up to January 20– and after. Back in the day in NYC, he’d show up if you merely opened a door– as long as cameras were there and he’d make Page Six. Like a car wreck, you just can’t help but slowing down to look.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  48. 19. Jonah Goldberg is, uh, irrelevant. Clinging to a piece of wreckage after the your ship has sunk is no guarantee the Carpathia will pick you up.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. @30.It’s going to be delusion and dishonesty all the way to the bitter end.

    Batman was a yugggge hit; even aired twice a week for a time; before viewership fell and the show was cancelled- after just two years.

    Solution: stop watching the show.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  50. Does it matter? No.

    To me, yes, it does matter. You’re correct that it doesn’t matter to Trump and Trump’s interests. And that’s the problem. Trump has always done what benefits Trump; if it benefits the USA that’s a happy accident.

    johnnyagreeable (92a141)

  51. I would posit that at its root, this “delay” tactic is far more about keeping the gravy train flowing rather than really believing he has a chance to remain in the Oval Office. As long as he can keep Trumpers agitated and feeling that the election was stolen, the greater impact those 300+ fundraising letters will have. If he can continue to present this as a “viable” fight, and one that requires a lot of money, he will do just that. It’s ugly and manipulative and once again demonstrates how his followers are but tools for him to use to his advantage. They’re He doesn’t care that they might be out of work, living on just social security or a small pension, or whatever. He just cares that they give their last $10 to him. The lie that he continues to live and to push is hurting very real people. But then, that’s what con artists do. They find easy marks and pounce. He’ll keep this going as long as he keeps bringing in the money. Soaking America what he can get.

    Dana (6995e0)

  52. “What he’s doing is continuing to dominate the news cycles by keeping the spotlight on him and his team’s theatrics”

    Yes, but is any of that “good”? We trusted someone with the keys to the country….and he spent most of his time tweeting nonsense and winging it. We should unambiguously call out the people that continue to promote this….and get back to using the archaic but entirely apt word…..shame

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  53. Solution: stop watching the show.

    If I stop watching Batman and the show just ends and its fans are mad but just go to like conventions and stuf, that’s fine. Different story if the millions of superfans out there can’t separate fact and fiction and act as if the Joker were real.

    johnnyagreeable (92a141)

  54. Batman was a yugggge hit; even aired twice a week for a time; before viewership fell and the show was cancelled- after just two years.
    Solution: stop watching the show.

    The show ends 62 days from now. All that’s left is the lying, delusion and amateurish attempts to steal the result.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  55. “But then, that’s what con artists do. They find easy marks and pounce. He’ll keep this going as long as he keeps bringing in the money.”

    Exactly. He’s just prepping his marks for the continuing drama…and next scam. People are unable to turn it off….and it’s brought to you by the GOP….oh, and FNC

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  56. @51. Attention w/gravy.

    Bingo.

    Yes, it’s quite ‘ugly and manipulative’– well, that’s showbiz:

    “But, man, you’re never going to get any truth from us. We’ll tell you anything you want to hear; we lie like hell. We’ll tell you that, uh, Kojak always gets the killer, or that nobody ever gets cancer at Archie Bunker’s house, and no matter how much trouble the hero is in, don’t worry, just look at your watch; at the end of the hour he’s going to win. We’ll tell you any sh!t you want to hear. We deal in *illusions*, man! None of it is true! But you people sit there, day after day, night after night, all ages, colors, creeds… We’re all you know. You’re beginning to believe the illusions we’re spinning here. You’re beginning to think that the tube is reality, and that your own lives are unreal. You do whatever the tube tells you! You dress like the tube, you eat like the tube, you raise your children like the tube, you even *think* like the tube! This is mass madness, you maniacs! In God’s name, you people are the real thing! *WE* are the illusion! So turn off your television sets. Turn them off now. Turn them off right now. Turn them off and leave them off! Turn them off right in the middle of the sentence I’m speaking to you now! TURN THEM OFF…” – Howard Beale [Peter Finch] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. @44. I’m under no illusion that “The Joe Show” will be without it’s share of BS, but you have no sense of proportion if you insist that I “ain’t seen nothing yet” compared to what’s coming out of the Trump camp.

    Roger (5daebb)

  58. @52. “Good” and “shame” have nothing to do w/it.

    “You can’t cheat an honest man. Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump.” – Larsen E. Whipsnade [W.C. Fields] ‘You Can’t Cheat An Honest Man’ 1939

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. @57. Proportion? You saw nothing for 47 years. Now that’s something.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  60. @54. The show ends 62 days from now. All that’s left is the lying, delusion and amateurish attempts to steal the result.

    And syndication.

    NBC cancelled Star Trek, too.

    That went well. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  61. The show ends 62 days from now. All that’s left is the lying, delusion and amateurish attempts to steal the result.

    Yes, it will end then. However, if Trump can keep his loyal followers in a state of agitation up until the transfer happens, the spigot will remain open. The transfer will likely be peaceful and normal, thus allowing Trump to preen about being a gentleman, in spite of the unfairness and illegality of the election, etc. It will increase his stature in the eyes of his worshippers and loyalists, thus guarantee he can continue the grift for some time.

    Dana (6995e0)

  62. I don’t want to hijack this thread, but I am upset with Kevin M, and my grievance is articulated in another thread, and I want to make sure he sees it, because I think he has been very unfair to me.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  63. However, if Trump can keep his loyal followers in a state of agitation up until the transfer happens, the spigot will remain open.

    If Trump didn’t take their money, some Nigerian prince would anyway.

    nk (1d9030)

  64. @53. This is who and what you’re dealing with, free marketers:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zYqFaygkGU

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. 19. Jonah Goldberg is, uh, irrelevant.

    If he’s irrelevant, what are you?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  66. Shelling out $350 for one dinner at the French Laundry during a pandemic when so many Californians are out of work isn’t a good look for the governor either.

    That part of the story doesn’t particularly bother me, since he wasn’t using public funds and the dinner put money in the pockets of the people who staff the restaurant and the vendors who supply it. The restaurant industry has taken a big hit, and when rich people spend money extravagantly, they’re supporting the livelihoods of the less wealthy, including people who take pride in producing a quality product.

    When restaurants like the French Laundry aim to reach the highest levels of the culinary art, it also has a trickle-down effect of elevating the cuisine in restaurants that average people might be able to afford.

    Radegunda (91b65e)

  67. @65. Winning.

    Trump or Biden, it’s ultimately a win/win toward the ultimate goal.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. @64. Postscript: try and picture Teddy Roosevelt pitching moustache wax; Richard Nixon selling shaving cream or Joe Biden peddling hair tonic.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  69. You seem kind of butthurt about Biden for a guy who claims to be winning.

    But claiming to be winning while losing is definitely the Trump playbook. Does it seem like it’s working for you?

    Patterico (e76608)

  70. 66,

    While I don’t necessarily disagree with your point re restaurants basically needing to make money, I still maintain that, given the pandemic and the subsequent increase of those unemployed, the optics are bad. Further, that he attended the dinner in honor of a well-known lobbyist, who also happens to be his very good friend, makes for worse optics.

    Dana (6995e0)

  71. About lobbyist Jason Kinny and Gov. Newsom:

    The longtime California Democratic politics fixer has had a hand in both winning campaigns and influencing policy. He was chief speechwriter for Gov. Gray Davis, served for years as a senior strategist for Senate Democrats and has long counseled Newsom politically. He continues to advise Newsom on politics even as his lucrative, newly launched lobbying firm works on bills that could land on Newsom’s desk…

    “He’s got some deep roots in government. Like any successful lobbyist, he uses those to his advantage because he’s smart,” said Steve Maviglio, a Democratic operative who has also worked both for the California government and for the interest groups that seek to sway it. “Any special interest hires the best talent they can get and that was the decision they made with Jason.”

    While Kinney worked on Newsom’s transition team and has continued to counsel the governor, he has also launched a lobbying shop, Axiom Advisors, whose client list included major California players that spend heavily to influence state policy. Axiom reaped $10.9 million worth of lobbying work in 2019-20, the first legislative session during which Newsom was governor.

    Some of Axiom’s clients highlight Kinney’s overlapping roles. Kidney dialysis firms DaVita and Fresenius paid Axiom $475,000 this session. During the same period, Kinney earned $90,000 from the California Democratic Party, which spent money to pass a labor-backed initiative regulating kidney dialysis. DaVita and Fresenius were the measure’s principal opponents.

    The optics of the entire evening are just bad.

    Dana (6995e0)

  72. @61. Wouldn’t overestimate the ‘breadth and worshippers’ for Trump himself. Certainly there’s a core to it; a fan base, just as there was for Reagan. But 74-plus million were likely less for the man and his foibles alone w/o consideration of his general policies- Helsinki and Covid aside- he advocated. The pattern is there; Buchanan to Perot to Palin to Trump. And it has grown over time. They’ve tasted victory, power, moved change and will eventually find another vessel to carry their flag forward. Just as conservative ideologues keep searching for another Reagan. But it is hard to ignore those 74 million-a number that grew 10 million from the 64 million of 2016.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  73. @69. The objective has been to neuter the modern ideological conservative movement. That has been pretty much accomplished. So yes, that’s winning.

    But similar your objections over Trump’s persona, my objections to Biden personally are based on his 47 year record- which was never fully dissected i/t media- as part of the problem which led to a Trump in the first place. And on his lack of character; plagiarism, etc.,… the tells remain– and he quit his run in 1988 due to it. But that’s water under the bridge now. His age is not. He is day one into his 79th year, w/a questionable medical history– brain surgeries no less. A one termer w/luck; a President Harris w/o it. Blame the major parties as currently structured for the country coming to this. Xi is smiling. Vlad is laughing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  74. I’m not a fan of Andrew McCarthy to put it mildly, but I agree with his throwing cold water on the folks attempting a coup by exhorting legislators to switch electoral votes to Trump, and I’m glad he’s ridiculing the conspiracy kooks and Ms. Powell’s QAnon lunacy.

    And what we are seeing now, in the twilight of Trump’s kookery, is the merger of QAnon, the Republican Party, and the large part of the conservative movement that earns its bread by peddling miracle veggie pills to gullible elderly people on the radio. When I first starting writing about QAnon, some conservatives scoffed that it wasn’t a significant phenomenon, that it had no real influence on the Republican Party or conservative politics. That is obviously untrue. Rather than ask whether conspiracy kookery is relevant to Republican politics at this moment, it would be better to ask if there is anything else to Republican politics at this moment. And maybe there is, but not much.
    This raises some uncomfortable questions for conservatives. One of those questions is: How long are we going to keep pretending that this madness isn’t madness? Another is: How long will we continue to pretend that what’s being broadcast by Fox News and talk radio is political commentary rather than the most shameful, irresponsible, and unpatriotic kind of sycophantic for-profit propaganda? A third is: What exactly is the benefit — for our ideas, and for the country — of making common cause with these lunatics and hucksters?
    The answer the Trumpists used to give was: winning. But Trump didn’t win. He lost to Joe Biden, who hardly even bothered to campaign against him. He may very well end up costing Republicans control of the Senate. He has a better chance of being indicted on criminal charges and/or returning once more to bankruptcy court than he does of serving a second term as president.
    Ronald Reagan spoke of “a time for choosing.” It’s that time again.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  75. At what point do Trump’s enablers, these members of Congress demand that he put up or shut up? I suspect they know that there is no election-changing evidence but they want the grift to continue as long as it benefits them. Because, for some perverse reason, they want to remain in the good graces of a one-term loser president. Why have members of Congress not collectively stood up and told Trump that, unless he produces evidence today, he needs to stop undermining democracy, and that they will not put up with it any longer. Party leadership and senior Republican members of Congress should take the lead in this. Every day that this is allowed to continue is another day that the GOP loses credibility and sees its value diminished. Maybe irreparably so. But they don’t seem to care. So be it.

    Dana (6995e0)

  76. @36

    Hail Mary, full of grace.
    Our Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women,
    and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
    Jesus.
    Holy Mary, Mother of God,
    pray for us sinners,
    now and at the hour of our death.
    Amen.

    That’s a prayer. I happen to have a Rosary, blessed by the Pope John Paul II. I carry it with me and say the prayer as I walk the Stations of the Cross at the Shrine in San Juan. It’s actually the most visited Shrine in North America, and it’s a beautiful pathway.

    I humble myself before God, give confession, ask for forgiveness of my sins, take communion, and walk the Stations of the Cross, every Easter Sunday and Christmas.

    Trump is incapable of that, because he is not a Christian. He’s a heretic, a follower of some sort of pretend profit gospel. He’s a hypocrite, an adulterer, a serial divorcer, and a total fraud. He’s a complete failure at business. Why anyone would worship this man-child is beyond my comprehension.

    That’s why the Gratuitously Obsequious Party is going down. I’ll never vote for a Trumpublican.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  77. Why have members of Congress not collectively stood up and told Trump that, unless he produces evidence today, he needs to stop undermining democracy, and that they will not put up with it any longer.

    Stood up? Any longer? They impeached him. An now he has been voted out of office.

    Put him out of your head.

    It’s not about ‘him’ anymore – it’s about the 74-plus million who voted for him and his policies in spite of his personal foibles.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  78. Trump is incapable of that, because he is not a Christian.

    Worse: he’s a Presbyterian. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  79. @76. He does a great Porky Pig at parties, too. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  80. Ronald Reagan spoke of “a time for choosing.” It’s that time again.

    The time for choosing was four years ago, Mr. McCarthy, and you chose very poorly.

    All those mendacious screeds shilling for Trump – what did you think you were supporting?

    Dave (1bb933)

  81. Your talking point is wrong, DCSCA. Trump no longer considers himself a Presbyterian. He is a non-denominational Christian.

    DRJ (aede82)

  82. Dave #81 (and Paul #74)

    That quote is Kevin Williamson, not McCarthy. McCarthy is not supporting the current madness, but he is muted about it.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  83. “It’s not about ‘him’ anymore – it’s about the 74-plus million who voted for him and his policies in spite of his personal foibles.”

    https://twitter.com/DougChristianDC/status/1330209018367926273

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  84. According to DCSCA, Biden has a total lack of character but Trump merely has foibles.

    DRJ (aede82)

  85. Like Trump, DCSCA is all showman.

    DRJ (aede82)

  86. Memo to ‘Charlie’ McCarthy Ronald Reagan spoke of “a time for choosing.” It’s that time again.

    Yes. In 1964- and Barry’s ideological conservatives had their asses handed to them by landslide Lyndon. Other than that, stay w/asking how Mrs. Lincoln enjoyed the play, Andy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. @85. Biden quit because of them. Trump didn’t.

    Embrace the quitter. DRJ.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  88. NYT working hard to fill their, uh, dearth of lefty opinion writers

    All their writers are centrists! Except maybe for that far right David Brooks.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. @86. Reaganoptics. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  90. Sorry, DCSCA, but I can’t seem to take politics as personally as you do. But carry on with your mission.

    DRJ (aede82)

  91. Or should I say your obsession?

    DRJ (aede82)

  92. Stood up? It’s not about ‘him’ anymore – it’s about the 74-plus million who voted for him and his policies in spite of his personal foibles.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

    What you call personal foibles, I call corruption, dishonesty, self-aggrandizement, insecurity, thin-skinned, arrogance, and pridefulness to the point of destruction. Foibles? Not exactly.

    Dana (6995e0)

  93. Biden wins Michigan by 155,000 votes and Trump/GOP are trying to overturn the result, without significant evidence of fraud. First, they went to the courts. Then the legislators were brought to the White House and now the certification board is pressured.

    155,000 vote margin. That is twice what Trump won in 2016… in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania… combined.

    The rules never apply to a Trump.

    noel (9fead1)

  94. @91/92. Be happy; justice prevails: Cuomo gets Trump’s long-sought Emmy. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. Your obsession, indeed.

    DRJ (aede82)

  96. @93. All the makings of the favorite son of Scranton, Pennsylvania.

    Or is it Wilmington, Delaware this week. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  97. DCSCA,

    We’ve seen how Trump has behaved with his hands on the levers of power for four years as the President of the United States. Let’s wait and see how Biden behaves in the next four years while in the same position. Your desperation to defend Trump and his behavior we’ve already borne witness to for the past four years while simultaneously condemning Biden – who has not even assumed the position of the president yet – only reveals your desperate need to deflect and deny when your team needs to avoid the truth.

    Dana (6995e0)

  98. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/21/2020 @ 1:15 pm

    I speak with, now, with parrhesia, out of charity:

    Be careful, Gewain, lest you sound like the Pharisee:

    The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

    9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

    13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

    14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  99. The rules never apply to a Trump.

    That is the cornerstone of Trump’s life. Whether it’s in his business dealings, his personal life, or in politics, if there are rules, they must be broken, hurdled, avoided if it serves to advance himself. But I also think that it’s not only to benefit himself by doing so, but it’s also to show his superfans that he cannot be “conquered” by anyone or anything. And his 70+ million supporters applaud him when he does. This is the entertainment they have come to see. He has audience expectations to meet. He trained them to do so.

    He is massively afraid and insecure about being seen as a mere mortal and thus is constantly attempting to subvert rules of restraint and destroy norms to not only please his audience but to reassure himself he is smarter than everyone else because he can’t be held to any standards but the ones that he makes. In his distorted view of the truth and decency, he sees this egregious lowering of the bar as a win.

    Dana (6995e0)

  100. @93. Dana; completely understand your POV. But seriously, even w/those flaws widely known and now very publicly endured, how do you explain 10 million more people voting for him– now over 74 million- this cycle than last cycle’s 64 million. Why? There’s something there;somethng rooting deep w/t growing populism and the pattern is clearly there; from Buchanan to Perot to Palin to Trump. And it’s something both major parties are going to have to deal with some how or there will be another Trump sooner or later. ‘Course it won’t matter to me- I mailed my vote in for Nikki last week. Too early? 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. ” how do you explain 10 million more people voting for him– now over 74 million- this cycle than last cycle’s 64 million. ”

    I can’t speed for Dana, but my explanation is @84.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  102. Be careful, Gewain, lest you sound like the Pharisee

    I don’t see anywhere in GG’s assessment of Trump where he is not being truthful and expressing what those with any sort of objectivity have observed:

    Trump is incapable of that, because he is not a Christian. He’s a heretic, a follower of some sort of pretend profit gospel. He’s a hypocrite, an adulterer, a serial divorcer, and a total fraud. He’s a complete failure at business. Why anyone would worship this man-child is beyond my comprehension.

    We are to judge one another by the fruit borne. We are to use our powers of observation, common sense and rational thought when making judgments. We are also to do so with the understanding that all of us have fallen short of the mark. But the believer we can judge. And that is what GG has done. To make a less than favorable observation about someone else does not mean that it is being done with confidence in their own righteousness while looking down on everyone else. It is simply an observation based on demonstrable evidence over the past four years. With that, to say that Trump is all of the above – and demonstrably so – does not mean that the claim is being made without also recognizing one’s own fallen nature and potential for disaster. Assuming the worst about someone who has not, to my knowledge, demonstrated that he considers himself above the fray is making a judgment without any demonstrable history of said behavior, no?

    Dana (6995e0)

  103. Your desperation to defend Trump and his behavior we’ve already borne witness to for the past four years while simultaneously condemning Biden…

    Inaccurate.

    Helsinki.

    Desperation?? You misinterpret. I wholly support his capacity to entertain and remain professionally awed at the gullibility of so many millions to keep buy tickets to the show. Even now, for curtain calls. Of course he’s a despicable scumbag. So was JR Ewing- nd he was invited into American living rooms for 14 years.

    NYers who know Trump’s act from the 80s have seen nothing new here, Dana. It’s been the same old show. Same guy now as then. He is a Reagan Creation, Dana. Biden- not so entertaining. Those of us who knew of his record in the 70’s & 80’s in South Jersey from Wilmington TV know Joe. But now it’s simply his age that’s the true issue. Now into his 79th year, he’s too old for this high pressure gig. Focus on Kamala. But it is amusing to see ‘law and order’ conservatives who’d never touch Biden and his politics, embrace him just because they hate Trump’s persona so much. We’d elected Frankenstein to defeat a Swamp Monsteress and now a Swamp Creature to replace the Frankenstein.

    In King Kong vs. Godzilla, who do you root for- Mothra?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  104. You’re cracking me up, DCSCA. I suspect that not even you believe what you’re trying to sell.

    Dana (6995e0)

  105. 100.The rules never apply to a Trump.

    Catch him if you can.

    But if Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew didn’t go to the pokie like Lori Loughlin did, Donald Trump won’t either. What would you consider ‘justice’ for a fella like Trump?

    Divorce? Nah. Been there, done that- twice.
    Bankruptcy? Nah- he’s been there, done that a few times, too.
    Low ratings? Well, even w/74 million he got cancelled.
    Hair loss? Ahhh, now we’re on to something.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. @105. What’s to sell: the objective was to neuter the modern ideological conservative movement into irrelevancy. It’s essentially what Trump accomplished–and what Dems had been trying to do for decades.

    Now Biden has won. It’s a win/win. He– or more likely Kamala- will press on. How far will come down to Georgia. Who knew the Alamo stood in a red clayed field west of Atlanta. But that doesn’t mean you have to personally ‘like’ any of these creatures.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  107. It will be interesting to see how Trump is covered post January 20th. If the media moves on, then you have the possibility of other GOP/conservative voices to emerge and start the long, slow vector back toward normalcy. But Trump is catnip for Talk Radio….and Talk Radio has blurred into FNC…and if there’s a buck to be made rationalizing, excusing, fluffing, and doubling down….it’s going to be made. We’ve morphed politics into WWE…and how does that genie get shoved back into the bottle? Good Christians just love them some hating of their neighbor……Wooooooooo……

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  108. You’re cracking me up, DCSCA. I suspect that not even you believe what you’re trying to sell.

    He’s boasted a few times about posting while heavily inebriated.

    It’s a lot easier to see through his schtick (the obsessive fixation on irrelevancies, the constant invocation of ancient history, and the endless repetition of banalities as if they were somehow even more clever than the previous thousand iteration) once you understand that.

    Dave (1bb933)

  109. @108. Like in the 80s, if you opened a bathroom stall door in the Men’s Room at Bloomingdale’s he’d show up for it as long as there were cameras there and he’s make Page Six.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  110. I suspected it was something like that, Dave. Which is why I don’t take him too seriously. But if he is any gauge as to how Trumpers at large think, then, yikes.

    Dana (6995e0)

  111. @109. Flaming shots, Davey? Personal attacks? How Trumpian? Wonderful to see he’s rubbed off on you.

    Feel the Bern.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  112. 111. That’s right Dana: Buchanan to Perot to Palin to Trump. Don’t take it too seriously at all.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  113. Dana (6995e0) — 11/21/2020 @ 3:07 pm
    Dana, It is good that you defend GG, but not necessary. I commend your charity.

    It is not about anyone’s assessment of any sinner, it is about anyone’s assessment of themselves in relation to others. That is the point of the parable. Like the Pharisee, GG lists his virtues in contrast to others. Take a closer look (I change the order of GG’s sentences for clarity):

    GG:I humble myself before God, give confession, ask for forgiveness of my sins, take communion, and walk the Stations of the Cross, every Easter Sunday and Christmas.

    Pharisee: I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.

    GG:Trump is incapable of that, because he is not a Christian. He’s a heretic, a follower of some sort of pretend profit gospel. He’s a hypocrite, an adulterer, a serial divorcer, and a total fraud.

    Pharisee:‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.

    Like GG, the Pharisee was not wrong, nor did he lie. Yet Jesus tells us that the pharisee did not go home justified.

    felipe (023cc9)

  114. The courtroom smackdowns continue:

    In this action, the Trump Campaign and the Individual Plaintiffs (collectively, the “Plaintiffs”) seek to discard millions of votes legally cast by Pennsylvanians from all corners – from Greene County to Pike County, and everywhere in between. In other words, Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated. One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens.

    That has not happened. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more. At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted. Therefore, I grant Defendants’ motions and dismiss Plaintiffs’ action with prejudice.

    Dave (1bb933)

  115. It’s fascinating to consider that God loves Trump. It’s really something to behold. I could pretend not to judge him, and I know my commandment is to love him, but I would be lying to say I don’t judge Trump harshly.

    And God might too. Not my place to figure that out. But God loves Trump. And I bet if we saw Trump’s childhood, whatever made him what he is today, perhaps what he is afraid of and insecure about in later life, we would understand him better. He has a story that wouldn’t be out of place in the Bible, as a parable, as a discussion of how a great nation encountered hardship, about sin.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  116. @115 Felipe, this is your 3rd holier than thou post in a row. Maybe it’s time to take it off the busy street corner and head inside.

    Nic (896fdf)

  117. “The courtroom smackdowns continue:”

    “Therefore, I grant Defendants’ motions and dismiss Plaintiffs’ action with prejudice.”

    I’m pretty sure I could get this same result for less than $20k per day.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  118. Holier than thou, nic? Such a weak taunt that works only on the proud. I am one of the worst sinners out here. God knows this to be true. It is a spiritual act of mercy to instruct others, and an act of charity to admonish a fellow sinner. Take time to consider the pearls laid before you before trampling them.

    felipe (023cc9)

  119. Rise up, Georgia patriots! Join these galaxy-brain Trumpers’ protest of Dem election fraud by writing in Trump in the Senate run-offs, or just sitting those votes out entirely. That’ll show em.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  120. 117.Interesting- so does this work w/this fella, too:

    “It’s fascinating to consider that God loves Putin. It’s really something to behold. I could pretend not to judge him, and I know my commandment is to love him, but I would be lying to say I don’t judge Putin harshly.

    And God might too. Not my place to figure that out. But God loves Putin. And I bet if we saw Putin’s childhood, whatever made him what he is today, perhaps what he is afraid of and insecure about in later life, we would understand him better. He has a story that wouldn’t be out of place in the Bible, as a parable, as a discussion of how a great nation encountered hardship, about sin.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  121. I’m pretty sure I could get this same result for less than $20k per day.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47) — 11/21/2020 @ 4:34 pm

    I don’t know. I don’t think Rudy and pals are attempting to get a judge to say “OK you guys, Trump won the election lol”

    I think they are maneuvering to delay as much as possible, with a dizzying back and forth that most folks won’t be able to follow. At the same time, a very large portion of the country will be made to believe the election was stolen, leading to the potential for a real crisis. And then Trump can use that damage to our country to trade some goodies for himself. Maybe an actual ransom. Maybe a way out of legal problems. Probably things we haven’t anticipated.

    But I don’t think these guys are just hilariously losing because they are morons. I know Rudy is indeed a moron but there is more to this, and the GOP could easily put a stop to it right now if it wanted to.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  122. Nic, I think the Felipe schtick is more like this character from a 1980s flick.

    In all seriousness, I could see a variant of Texas-based Catholicism becoming it’s own denomination in the next half-century. My Round Rock / Georgetown cousins have the same fervor, which i respect mainly for the fact they didnt need to run off to evangelical Christianity to find it.

    urbanleftbehind (b50a5d)

  123. DCSCA, I agree that God loves Putin, even though Putin is a ruthless killer. Putin isn’t too hard to understand though. He loves an idea of his country so much he will do anything to pursue that idea. Trump doesn’t do this stuff for any ideal he has.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  124. Dustin (4237e0) — 11/21/2020 @ 4:28 pm

    I completely agree with you, Dustin. I have even heard some say that Trump reminds them of King Cyrus, who knew not God but whom God knew. King Cyrus, who ordered the rebuilding of the temple of the Lord, and emancipation of the Jews. YMMV.

    felipe (023cc9)

  125. felipe, the Pharisee held himself above the tax collector. GG did no such thing with Trump.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  126. @125. Not so sure of that, D. If he did, he’d have planted him in Nassau, not Moscow.

    Better winters. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. Lurker, it’s not about Trump. Forget Trump. I certainly have.

    felipe (023cc9)

  128. Lurker, it’s not about Trump. Forget Trump. I certainly have.

    felipe, if there’s a way to harmonize that with this,

    It is not about anyone’s assessment of any sinner, it is about anyone’s assessment of themselves in relation to others. That is the point of the parable. Like the Pharisee, GG lists his virtues in contrast to others.

    it eludes me.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  129. I appreciate your comment, Lurker. Were you looking for Trump’s name in that quote? Would that render the two statements harmonious?

    felipe (023cc9)

  130. –trigger warming to nic–
    –skip this comment–

    Let me be clear that GG was making a contrast between himself and another sinner. Just like the pharisee. Maybe Jesus doesn’t want His followers making contrasts between themselves and all the other sinners (I among the worst of them because I should know better), because, you know, they are sinners like anyone else, and Jesus died on the cross for sinners – the innocent in the place of the guilty, so He could, in total justice, have mercy on us?

    felipe (023cc9)

  131. But I don’t think these guys are just hilariously losing because they are morons. I know Rudy is indeed a moron but there is more to this, and the GOP could easily put a stop to it right now if it wanted to.

    I dunno, Dustin. What do the remoras do when the shark go into a feeding frenzy, or the dung beetles when the elephant has gastroenteritis?

    I do know that Putin, as published in the America-hating New York Times, and on a September 11 to boot, is irked by American exceptionalism

    And I [Putin speaking] would rather disagree with a case [President Obama] made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation.

    and this is sending a tingle up his leg.

    nk (1d9030)

  132. @120 Yep, you’ve certainly gone to your brother in private, here, publicly, on the internet. (It’s actually a spiritual work of Mercy, not an act of charity.) Also I am puzzled how you managed to get to Matt 7:6 without reading Matt 7:1-5. If you want to call me a swine, that’s your own problem, though I do not find it to be charitable.

    Nic (896fdf)

  133. there are a lot of killers mr nk

    we have a lot of killers

    you think this country is so innocent question mark

    Dave (1bb933)

  134. nk, indeed if Putin doesn’t like America and Americans feeling or being exceptional, he has reason to smile over the past couple of weeks.

    Hopefully Biden surprises me and has a plan for that guy.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  135. felipe, on re-reading GG’s full comment I still don’t think he held himself above Trump like the Pharisee did the tax collector, but it’s less clear cut than I initially thought. I see your point.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  136. Nic (896fdf) — 11/21/2020 @ 5:47 pm

    It is wise of you to read Scripture. I am happy for you that my recent comments spurred you to it. I have often transposed the spiritual and corporal acts of mercy – a type of dyslexia that I will no doubt repeat. It is flaw of which I am unashamed.

    felipe (023cc9)

  137. lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/21/2020 @ 5:55 pm

    I agree with you lurker because you are not wrong. I should say that more often.

    felipe (023cc9)

  138. No pity for pervy poofters purveying peccancy. Trump sucks and I don’t feel guilty for saying so.

    nk (1d9030)

  139. Compleynt, compleynt, I hearde upon a day,
    Artemis singing, Artemis, Artemis
    Against Pity lifted her wail:
    Pity causeth the forests to fail,
    Pity slayeth my nymphs,
    Pity spareth so many an evil thing.
    Pity befouleth April,
    Pity is the root and the spring.
    Now if no fayre creature followeth me
    It is on account of Pity,
    It is on account that Pity forbideth them slaye.
    All things are made foul in this season,
    This is the reason, none may seek purity
    Having for foulnesse pity
    And things growne awry;
    No more do my shaftes fly
    To slay. Nothing is now clean slayne
    But rotteth away.

    Canto XXX, Ezra Pound

    nk (1d9030)

  140. People! I’m tryin’ to forget Trump, here. I know, I know. “Forget about him -he’s a memory!”

    felipe (023cc9)

  141. Interpreted in the widest possible terms, the lyric condemns only Judeo-Christian dualism, which undermines man’s reverence for natural process and causes him to pervert those beneficent and self-regulating operations which Artemis represents. Interpreted more narrowly but no less symbolically (and safely), the lyric rejects not all forms of pity and compassion, but only “cheap sentiment,” the false tolerance by the weak of others’ weakness, incompetence, mediocrity, and imprecision, none of which nature, cast in the form of unstinting Artemis, ever condones. […] One might thus conclude that Artemis’ violence represents nothing more lethal than a rigorous attitude toward life. Even if Pound meant to apply her hard lessons to human societies, they might figure within a conservative tradition inaugurated by Nietzsche and continued, with major alterations, by the Catholic Max Scheler.

    Robert Casillo. The Genealogy of Demons.. Evanston Ill.: Northwestern UP, 1988. 111.

    nk (1d9030)

  142. nk (1d9030) — 11/21/2020 @ 6:14 pm

    That was a welcome Comment, nk.

    Stick a fork in me, I’m done.

    felipe (023cc9)

  143. And on my part, felipe, that’s as much as I’ll venture into a religious dispute between three Catholics. 😉

    nk (1d9030)

  144. @139 My decade and change of Catholic education, let me show it to you.

    Nic (896fdf)

  145. GOP Michigan ex-governor says state board will certify Biden winner over ‘bully’ Trump

    WASHINGTON — Calling President Trump a “bully” who is “undermining democracy,” Michigan’s Republican former Gov. Rick Snyder says he fully expects a state board to certify on Monday that Joe Biden won the election in his state, guaranteeing that its 16 electoral votes will be in the former vice president’s column.

    But even after that happens, Snyder said in an interview for the Yahoo News “Skullduggery” podcast, he worries about the long-term impact of Trump’s efforts to persuade the Republican leaders in Michigan’s GOP-controlled Legislature to set aside the election results and select an alternative set of pro-Trump electors.

    “What’s troubling through all this is the president’s behavior — and that of the people on his legal team,” Snyder said. “They’re actually undermining democracy with their actions.

    “I’m concerned about the damage that’s going to go on for the next several years in terms of misinformation, creating doubts in the minds of his supporters, things like that,” he said. “There’s a lot of damage. President Trump has done terrible things. This man is the divider-in-chief of our nation.”

    nk (1d9030)

  146. And remember all those cowardly Senators and GOP pundits who refused to convict Trump because we could let the voters decide whether we keep him. Now they are saying the voters should not decide, that the GOP can win ‘legitimately’ by appointing its own electors.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  147. @149: After four years of what must’ve been very deep introspection, faith in voters’ decisions are suddenly restored.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  148. And remember all those cowardly Senators and GOP pundits who refused to convict Trump because we could let the voters decide whether we keep him.

    I believe there were other reasons, too. The most obvious was that the impeachment articles were intentionally weak. Pelosi didn’t WANT Trump gone, he was too useful as a village idiot, but she had to get her caucus off her back.

    Now they are saying the voters should not decide, that the GOP can win ‘legitimately’ by appointing its own electors.

    How they cannot see this is suicidal, I don’t know. I’m not following this train wreck close enough to know if they are actually advocating for Trump, or simply hoping it will go away soon. Neither is a great plan but I can understand the latter somewhat.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  149. After four years of what must’ve been very deep introspection, faith in voters’ decisions are suddenly restored.

    Maybe you missed this last week.

    Or…maybe you’re just making stuff up, again, shocking.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  150. Kevin M – how is it suicidal? With Trump in the Presidency and the Republicans controlling the Senate, they control Judicial appointments, and they can stack the courts with judges who will let them run the government without involving the House, and taking the fight to the libtards like this will result in *increased* support among Trump’s base.

    A large percentage of the voting public *wants* this.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  151. @149: After four years of what must’ve been very deep introspection, faith in voters’ decisions are suddenly restored.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/21/2020 @ 7:05 pm

    There’s no way to interpret this that makes you look reasonable. Either you don’t think voters should pick their government, or you think criticism of a bad outcome in 2016 is the same as burning democracy down.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  152. Honestly, I now *expect* that Trump will be President on January 21, 2025, with majorities in both houses of Congress.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  153. Okay, now I know beer ‘n pretzels is working from a script. Absolutely, positively, no doubt about it. Hire work or hive mind, beer ‘n pretzels?

    nk (1d9030)

  154. @149: After four years of what must’ve been very deep introspection, faith in voters’ decisions are suddenly restored.
    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/21/2020 @ 7:05 pm

    The knee-jerk whataboutism is so tedious.

    I’d love to be a fly on your brain. Do you really believe there’s a precedent for what Trump is trying to do now? Or, like Trump, do you just think any attack on your enemy is a good one?

    Serious question: What would it have taken for you to vote against Trump. And don’t say nothing could have done it. Even your tribalism must have limits. If Trump nuked Nato, I’d like to think even you would vote against him. So working backwards from there, what’s the least it would take?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  155. Rise up, Georgia patriots! Join these galaxy-brain Trumpers’ protest of Dem election fraud by writing in Trump in the Senate run-offs, or just sitting those votes out entirely. That’ll show em.
    lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/21/2020 @ 4:39 pm

    This is hilarious (in Trumpian all-caps): “IF ALL PATRIOTS BOYCOTT RIGGED #GASEN ELECTION, THE SUPREME COURT WILL ORDER A REVOTE!” So, if Osoff and Warnock win overwhelmingly, the Supreme Court will know that “patriots” didn’t vote, and the Court will think “that’s not right” and will say “Y’all need to do another election,” which somehow will be guaranteed not be “rigged.”

    Galaxy brain indeed.

    Radegunda (91b65e)

  156. Trump won in 2016 by about the same amount in the same states. Hillary may have whined and ranted, but she did not try to get the people’s choices overturned. “Deceive, inveigle, and obfuscate” seems to be Trump’s motto here.

    Doesn’t Trump understand that “winning” by these methods would be worse than losing? His life wouldn’t be worth a plugged nickel and the country wouldn’t survive.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  157. As it stands, if the GOP does not officially repudiate Trump’s tactics here, and soon, it won’t matter how it turns out because it will turn out badly for them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  158. Heh! I don’t know how I missed that? ALL PATRIOTS SHOULD BOYCOTT RIGGED ELECTIONS!

    nk (1d9030)

  159. Come to think of it, there’s a good chance that Dems are messing with the MAGA-heads on Parler. If Trump’s sowing distrust of mail-in voting apparently suppressed his own vote in Georgia, why not try the same thing with distrust of the machines?

    Radegunda (91b65e)

  160. Oops, correction, my link was to Williamson, not McCarthy.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  161. > As it stands, if the GOP does not officially repudiate Trump’s tactics here, and soon, it won’t matter how it turns out because it will turn out badly for them.

    How so? Trump is going to spend the next four years lying constantly about how the election was stolen from him by corrupt democrats, the Republicans in the legislature are going to repeat it and magnify it, and he’s going to ride the anti-Democrat outrage wave he whips up back to power, having convinced just enough voters in the right states that the evil Democrats stole the election from them.

    Six weeks ago you were optimistically telling me the Republicans would abandon Trump when he lost the election. They haven’t, and their are just enough voters who want this outcome that they won’t pay any price for doing so, either.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  162. > the country wouldn’t survive.

    When has Trump shown any actual evidence that he cares?

    aphrael (4c4719)

  163. In 2024 Trump will be 78 years old and fishing in his swimming pool in Florida with a rod and reel but no hook in a Depends adult diaper.

    nk (1d9030)

  164. @167. And President Harris will be elected to a full term. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  165. Wow, all I did above is recite the Rosary and discuss how I practice my faith. And look at the reaction.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  166. Faithless electors in the 2016 United States presidential election

    ‘In the 2016 United States presidential election, ten members of the Electoral College voted or attempted to vote for a candidate different from the ones to whom they were pledged. Three of these votes were invalidated under the faithless elector laws of their respective states, and the elector either subsequently voted for the pledged candidate or was replaced by someone who did.

    Although there had been a combined total of 155 instances of individual electors voting faithlessly prior to 2016 in over two centuries of previous US presidential elections, 2016 was the first election in over a hundred years in which multiple electors worked to alter the result of the election.

    As a result of the seven successfully cast faithless votes, the Democratic Party nominee, Hillary Clinton, lost five of her pledged electors while the Republican Party nominee and then president-elect, Donald Trump, lost two. Three of the faithless electors voted for Colin Powell while John Kasich, Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders, and Faith Spotted Eagle each received one vote.’ – source, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_electors_in_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  167. But I don’t think these guys are just hilariously losing because they are morons.

    I was wondering about all these conspicuous court defeats.

    Trump was completely open about expecting the US Supreme Court to eventually steal the election for him.

    But I don’t recall seeing any of these dozens of unfavorable decisions appealed.

    Yet.

    Could the plan be (or “Plan B”…) to wait until the last minute and then try to prevent electors in states marked for election theft from voting, by filing 30 or 40 different appeals at the same time?

    This could be used as a pretext for the state legislative coup, or to force a contingent election in the House when neither candidate receives a majority of electoral votes.

    Dave (1bb933)

  168. Hey, thanks for the pointer to that! It’s an excellent summary, and my thesis experiment even gets a passing mention…

    I wasn’t aware of the story about his originally flunking physics. Things were probably a bit different in the immediate aftermath of the war, but generally in Japanese academics, second chances are rare.

    By spending his early career working in the US, Toshi probably gained an advantage over peers stuck in the extremely hierarchical Japanese system. He wound up with a professorship at University of Tokyo, which in Japan is like the whole Ivy League rolled into one. At least in physics, you’re either from Tokyo U, or you’re from somewhere else because Tokyo U didn’t want you…

    It was said that he got funding from the Japanese government for his proton decay/solar neutrino experiment (likely around $5M in the mid 1970’s) by writing a half-page letter requesting it. In Japan, the prestige of the leader is sufficient. By comparison, despite being led by the man who first detected neutrinos (i.e. no shortage of prestige) the proposal for the contemporary US experiment that I ended up working on was around 100 pages, and today the process would be even more bureaucratic.

    Dave (1bb933)

  169. Glad to see Governor Brian Kemp, and the a few other GOP statewide officials not kowtow to the Trump folks attempting to steal the election. It really shouldn’t and isn’t an act of courage. It just seems that something that is expected of our statewide leaders now becomes comparatively courageous.

    HCI (92ea66)

  170. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/21/2020 @ 8:52 pm

    Yes, GG. I find the reaction very encouraging.

    A show of charity from several commenters who are unashamed to speak on the subject of faith, speaking in good faith. Especially encouraging was the absence of anti-catholic sentiment about Mary.

    There was a time when a mention of the Hail Mary would provoke a hail and brimstone sermon from those who incorrectly think that Catholics worship Mary. Not on this site. I have nothing but the best impressions from everyone involved.

    Well, almost everyone. There was one example of Mockery of people of faith employing a gross caricature of a Christian. This was ignored by everyone in the comments. Another good sign. A special shout-out goes to nk who, again, demonstrates (show-off!) the caliber of his mind and the hidden wisdom he possesses.

    By the way, A very blessed day to all on the Solemnity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, King of the Universe.

    felipe (023cc9)

  171. I wonder if it is interesting for some of you to read about how the US appear in German news these days. One of the top political news items here at the moment is the G20 summit and its focus on fighting the pandemic. The US appear in some of the related headlines: Trump joined for 2 hours, during which he tweeted about other important topics and then left to play golf. It reminds of this magazine cover: Lazy Boy

    I find it especially hard to understand why so many people see him as someone who is hard working, when so much of his schedule apparently is occupied by excecutive time (watching TV?!) and playing golf. There is, of course, much more that I find hard to understand. From afar – bizarre.

    Acoustics-Mike (619ba5)

  172. Thank you, felipe, but I realized a long time ago that I only have a head full of books (and now Mr. Google to make up the difference), and even this “insight” I owe to Miguel de Cervantes’ Don Quixote.

    nk (1d9030)

  173. It just seems that something that is expected of our statewide leaders now becomes comparatively courageous.

    No, it’s just that they are being force to take a stand, and only a frigging idiot would side with Trump. Similarly, Senator Toomey.

    If you wanted to put more senators on the spot, bring impeachment charges. Sedition, perhaps, although Trump has not yet suggested overturning the election by force, but he might.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  174. He is a non-denominational Christian.

    It’s what he claims, but I’ve never read or heard him say that Christ is his Personal Lord and Savior, but he did say that he has never prayed for forgiveness for any of his sins and transgressions.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  175. Words mean things:

    A minor weakness or failing of character; slight flaw or defect.

    It’s not intellectually honest to label Trump’s behavior that way.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  176. On the heels of anti-cop Portland Commissioner Jo Ann Hardesty calling 911 on her Lyft driver, anti-cop Governor Kate Brown wants Oregonians to call 911 on neighbors who stray from her Thanksgiving Covid restrictions.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  177. “Your talking point is wrong, DCSCA. Trump no longer considers himself a Presbyterian. He is a non-denominational Christian.”

    He’s a Mammonite.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  178. On top of all the other frauds,Trump is a complete fraud at religious preening. It’s time we had a president who can pull off the genuine preen. This guy’s gotta go.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  179. I got your “religious preening” right here, Trumpkin.

    nk (1d9030)

  180. Gov. Newsom, who angered Californians

    It’s not the hypocrisy.

    It’s they don’t believe science.

    Obviously the whole group was suicidal.

    Call mental health experts to lock them up in a mental hospital until their suicidal urges are controlled.

    BillPasadena (5b0401)

  181. Call mental health experts to lock them up in a mental hospital until their suicidal urges are controlled.

    Homicidal. Who knows how many people they’ll kill, or permanently damage in any number of ways, like the orange baboon has done to hundreds of thousands of Americans and is still doing.

    nk (1d9030)

  182. The Lincoln Project keeps fighting, releasing three new (and excellent IMO) ads this week:

    Leaders

    Michigan

    Shameful

    Dave (1bb933)

  183. Felipe, all this discussion of faith got me wondering….Evangelicals are overwhelming Trump supporters…most would consider themselves practicing their faith in good conscience…and many probably even prayed for a Trump victory. Then you have Gawain who is clearly no fan of Mr. Trump and many similar Catholics probably prayed for a big Trump defeat…and a reckoning for the GOP. Now I suppose you can argue that God stays out of such secular affairs like football games….except for the Irish of course….but how do we go about accounting for which prayers God actually answers, which he ignores, and what exactly falls into the pot of random probability? I mean 9M children die each year before the age of 5….that’s a lot of calculated inaction…if he’s not answering those…

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  184. We’re gonna need a bigger boat bus:

    “The conduct of the president’s legal team has been a national embarrassment,” former New Jersey governor Chris Christie said Sunday on ABC’s “This Week.”

    Hey, thanks for working your fat ass off to get him elected, and then re-elected.

    Dave (1bb933)

  185. Newsom won’t be hurt by his dinner. He had approval ratings in the 60s prior to the election. And depending upon who he selects to replace Harris, they won’t go any lower.

    Rip Murdock (8898a2)

  186. https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shootings-weekend-gun-violence-shooting-breaking-news/8167777/

    Just another weekend in Chicago. Time for some more BLM protests.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  187. @189

    The way my mom, who was an evangelical minister, explained it to me is that prayers should be phrased such that you ask God to intervene if and only if it’s His will to do so. In that way, if you pray for a loved one to recover from an illness, and they don’t, it’s not because God didn’t hear your prayer but because whatever you prayed for wasn’t His will.

    The scope of potentially effective prayer would thus seem to be limited to cases where prayer is unnecessary since God has already decided to do the thing requested.

    Attempts to follow up along these lines usually devolved into “human reasoning and logic don’t apply to God”.

    Dave (1bb933)

  188. Trump is a complete fraud at religious preening.It’s time we had a president who can pull off the genuine preen.

    * “Nobody reads the Bible more than me.”
    * The Art of the Deal is “my second favorite book of all time,” he said. “Do you know what my first is? The Bible! Nothing beats the Bible!”
    * “As much as I love The Art of the Deal, it’s not even close,” he said. “We take the Bible all the way.”
    * I think it’s just incredible” (speaking of the Bible).
    * Said his opponent will “hurt the Bible, hurt God. He’s against God,” and “there will be no God” if Biden is elected.
    * Tear-gassed protesters to clear a public space so he could display his deep Christian devotion by holding a Bible aloft in front of a church while the news cameras were rolling.
    * Claims to be such a fine specimen of morality that he has never had a reason to seek forgiveness.

    You’re right. Trump’s religious preening is about as transparently fraudulent as it gets. So why do Trumpers still believe that he has a unique capacity and commitment to save Christianity?

    Radegunda (20775b)

  189. @189

    shorter @193

    When I was back there in seminary school
    There was a person there who put forth the proposition
    That you can petition the Lord with prayer
    Petition the Lord with prayer
    Petition the Lord with prayer

    You cannot petition the Lord with prayer!

    Dave (1bb933)

  190. Hey, thanks for working your fat ass off to get him elected, and then re-elected.

    Rat. Ship.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  191. #187

    Regarding the Lincoln Project’s Leaders ad. — Well, I sympathize with the sentiment. But if the GOP is ever going to move past Trump, we are going to have to see a moderate sycophant or ten get the modest courage to break with him. They won’t do it unless they calculate the forgiveness will outweigh the wrath.

    Appalled (456a21)

  192. The Problem of Evil, in flowchart form.

    (I think one could replace the word “evil” with “Trump” everywhere it appears, and the logic would be unchanged…)

    Dave (1bb933)

  193. But if the GOP is ever going to move past Trump, we are going to have to see a moderate sycophant or ten get the modest courage to break with him. They won’t do it unless they calculate the forgiveness will outweigh the wrath.

    Self-abasement will be a necessary first step.

    Dave (1bb933)

  194. Liz Cheney gets the Toomey treatment:

    Sorry Liz, can’t accept the results of an election with hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes cast, enough to easily flip the Election. You’re just unhappy that I’m bringing the troops back home where they belong!

    This claim about election fraud is disputed

    Dave (1bb933)

  195. But if the GOP is ever going to move past Trump, we are going to have to see a moderate sycophant or ten get the modest courage to break with him. They won’t do it unless they calculate the forgiveness will outweigh the wrath.

    He’s a one-term loser president, what wrath? What can an outgoing Trump do to them? Who cares if he throws yet another fit? Perhaps the wrath they should fear is from sensible right-side of the aisle voters who are appalled that their elected officials (with the exception of a few) are aiding and abetting by their silent spinelessness a president who is behaving in an anti-American and unethical manner? After the dust has settled, and it will, we won’t forget who they were. Those who didn’t dare speak up against a raging president undermining democratic values and ethics, but instead hid out, too afraid to risk his favor and too afraid of his loyal followers.

    Dana (6995e0)

  196. @192: “it’s not because God didn’t hear your prayer but because whatever you prayed for wasn’t His will”

    So why pray….if His will is to not act for 9M children each year….let people starve, die for the service of dictators, get swept away in tsunamis, and suffer in abject poverty? I suppose one could say it’s on us to intervene…but then what use is the supernatural? If God’s will yields about the same results as random probability, are we just deluding ourselves? Matt 7:7: ” Ask and it will be given to you”. I guess sometimes it will be given to you….good and hard….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  197. Dave (1bb933) — 11/21/2020 @ 4:23 pm

    Even more devastating than the conclusion, Dave, was the Introduction:

    In other words, Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated. One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens.
    That has not happened. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more. At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted. Therefore, I grant Defendants’ motions and dismiss Plaintiffs’ action with prejudice.

    Brann was appointed by Obama but is a Republican and was/is in the Federalist Society and NRA. Giuliani definitely did not help, and I doubt any higher court will choose to hear this dog’s breakfast. Trump is 2-34 in court, and Sidney Powell is not going to save him.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  198. Palate cleanser:

    “It’s working!” Check out the critters big and small who are using Utah’s first wildlife overpass to cross Interstate 80. The @UtahDWR shared this video on Thursday.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  199. 1. (this story is also on the front page of today’s New York Times)

    https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation-world/ct-nw-nyt-republicans-trump-election-20201122-7qneknbhzzbc7nqfw5isezfwcu-story.html

    There’s no problem this year, but, in the future, Republican members of canvassing boards and the like might be replaced in some states by Banana Republicans. They are bipartisan to prevent falseness. Of course there are various recourses too, and it’ll only be in some states. The voting procedures have been thought through.

    2.

    Donald Trump Jr., President Donald Trump’s eldest son, has tested positive for the coronavirus…Rudy Giuliani’s son, Andrew, announced Friday he has tested positive for coronavirus, a day after he attended a news conference with his father and other members of President Donald Trump’s legal team

    The question is: Why is Rudy Giuliani immune?

    I suppose he must have had an asymptomatic case months ago, and/or was infected years ago by the cowpox version of this disease.

    The positive test for Andrew Giuliani came too soon to be related to that press conference. He works in the White House as an associate director in the Office of Public Liaison. He was most notable for arranging visits by sports teams. He later became a special assistant to the president, and regularly plays golf with him and has for around twenty years (Rudolph Giuliani and Donald Trump are a bit close possibly because they both had affairs and went through divorces. If so, their
    friendship would have started in the late 1990s.)

    From the Trump Biography “Never enough” by Michael D’Antonio (St. Martin’s Press, 2015) page 322:

    The world in Trump’s stage, and most of the players from the early years of his celebrity in New York are either faded or gone. Old enemies and friends like Ed Koch, Roy Cohn, Leona Helmsley and George Steinbrenner are dead. Others, such as Rudy Giuliani, are sometimes visible by generally irrelevant…

    Giuliani came back in a big way in 2019, but only because of the things he is doing to attempt to help Donald Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  200. Cool, Radegunda.

    nk (1d9030)

  201. I love the two sweet fawns and the slow ambling I’ll-take-my-time-thank-you-very-much porcupine.

    Dana (6995e0)

  202. This is a lengthy and devastating report about the palm oil industry and the Indonesian and Malaysian women who work on the plantations and experience rampant rape and repeated sexual abuse, harassment, as well as experience extreme physical toll from the back-breaking work. What makes it even more awful is that there is really no recourse for the. Women who end up impregnated by their rapists, either keep their mouths closed or are forced by their families to marry their rapist so their families are not shamed.

    What readers also learn is that the beauty industry here is reliant on these women’s labor to provide necessary ingredients in their products. The horrible irony is that the most popular and highly lucrative businesses that tout that they are “cruelty free” are only that with regard to animal testing. They are most definitely not with regard to the treatment of female workers. Rather then face the problem head-on, these corporations conveniently turn a blind eye to the wide-spread horrors women face, or pay lip service to the issue and then ignore it:

    Abuses also were linked to product lines sought out by conscientious consumers like Tom’s of Maine and Kiehl’s, through the supply chains of their giant parent companies Colgate-Palmolive and L’Oréal. And Bath & Body Works was connected through its main supplier, Cargill, one of the world’s biggest palm oil traders.

    Coty Inc., which owns global staples like CoverGirl and is tapping into partnerships with Gen Z newcomers like Kylie Cosmetics, did not respond to multiple AP calls and emails. And Estee Lauder Companies Inc., owner of Clinique and Aveda, acknowledged struggling with traceability issues in its RSPO filing. When asked by AP whether specific products used palm oil or its derivatives, there was no response.

    Both companies, along with Shiseido and Clorox, which owns Burt’s Bees Inc., keep the names of their mills and suppliers secret. Clorox said it would raise the allegations of abuses with its suppliers, calling AP’s findings “incredibly disturbing.”

    Johnson & Johnson makes its mill list public, but refused to say whether its iconic baby lotion contains palm oil derivatives.

    Dana (6995e0)

  203. @188 Sometimes God says “No.”

    (This is not official quoted doctrine, it’s a result of an amalgamation of too many theology classes) As far as “why is there death” God is the God of the entire universe, not just a single person or a single religious group or a single species or a single planet. He is the God of bacteria, and bugs in the ground, and plants sprouting from the soil, and the tiger stalking through the forest at night, and everything. We need the death of things so that we can live, the wider ecosystem needs the death of things so it can live. Thinking we are more important than billions of bugs is just our own arrogance :P. And for God it isn’t a loss, it a change of matter-state. The person isn’t their body, they are the soul that becomes embodied. Death is just the disembodiment of the person, the person still exists. It’s like they’ve moved out of state (or states of being :P) they are there, you just can’t see them anymore.

    Nic (896fdf)

  204. @209, It’s not just death and the cycle of life….but suffering….and the significant suffering of relative innocents. Why does an all-loving and personal God will suffering? I get the butterfly flap and how suffering can motivate great compassion and strength, but it subtracts appreciably from this concept that God is all loving. He supposedly gave us the Book…..didn’t give those ants, plants, and bacteria a Book….unless it’s a really tiny one….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  205. Trump’s religious preening is about as transparently fraudulent as it gets. So why do Trumpers still believe that he has a unique capacity and commitment to save Christianity?

    Forty percent see conflict between American culture and their religion, and they think Trump is uniquely positioned to deal with this conflict because he manipulates the culture while claiming to be a Christian like them. I doubt they care about his religious bona fides as much as his command of the culture.

    DRJ (aede82)

  206. “Here is a bulletin from CBS News…”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7fCpdvcl7k

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  207. #201 —

    The wrath of Trump, by itself, is nothing. It’s the voters he motivates that worry the politicians. For the GOP to move past Trump, they have to stop fearing the base, and take a chance on leading them.

    If the person who does that is Rubio or Haley or even Cruz, I will consider getting past my wrath.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  208. @211 — Trump’s “command of the culture” does nothing to fortify religious (or ethical) values. It’s mostly about beating up enemies. Trump and his ardent fans have been projecting the image of religious people as hypocrites, willing to grant huge exemptions on their supposed values as long as they think they’re getting what they want out of the deal. And it doesn’t matter how many innocents get hurt in the bargain.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  209. @210 Free will. (this is the actual official short-answer) 😛

    The longer (not necessarily particularly official) philosophical viewpoint:

    For a Biblical literalist, the answer is that the human race made some bad choices in the Garden of Eden, so we have to suffer (in some cases literally) the consequences of those choices.

    I am not a Biblical literalist (if you are, it might be a good idea to go get a snack, now), so here is what is my own amalgamation again, but it is close enough to the official explanation, so make of that what you will. The parable of the Garden of Eden (I told you literalists to go get a snack) is basically that God didn’t make us to be mindless automatons of his will and/or instinct, but instead (long discussion of evolution removed for time) we are thinking beings that learn and change and have free will and make our own choices, some of which are bad. In order for us (and however many other thinking beings might exist on this world or another, listen, no judgement on dolphins or your dog who clearly knew he wasn’t supposed to get into the trash and is now hiding under the bed in the guest room) to truly experience free will and have the ability to change and grow, a full range of experiences had to be available to us, including suffering and illness and evil; and all of those things had to exist.

    Nic (896fdf)

  210. Radegunda (20775b) — 11/22/2020 @ 10:57 am

    Good news, Rad. Did you notice they built one like that over I-90, just east of Snoqualmie?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  211. 202. ‘So why pray….’

    Executive overflow.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  212. My feeling is that Trump supporters are proud Americans who love our country and have faith in its future, but they are cynical/pessimistic about current American politics, government, media, and culture. For instance, some of the Trump supporters here have been pessimistic about current events and tend to forecast apocalyptic political outcomes. Trump responded to their concerns, he didn’t invent them, and those concerns have to be addressed. IMO it won’t work for the GOP to imply (as Trump did) that we can return to the 1950’s era, but I don’t see any credible effort to present an alternative vision.

    DRJ (aede82)

  213. Well, Radegunda, not everyone sees religion the same way. Not everyone interprets the Bible the same way. And my impression is that some Christians (maybe especially evangelicals?) are more responsive to the views of their pastors than to Scripture.

    DRJ (aede82)

  214. The wrath of Trump, by itself, is nothing. It’s the voters he motivates that worry the politicians.

    Exactly. They fear the zealots in the base who believe that Trump is the greatest patriot that America has ever seen, the only person in politics who is truly committed to fighting for them, the only one who can be trusted. They believe that anyone who deviates from absolute obeisance to Trump is thereby exposed as a traitor to America. And they are willing to destroy the GOP before they’ll turn away from Trump.

    The nutty cult of Trump appears to be shockingly widespread among GOP voters.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  215. #219, I’m quite aware that not everyone sees religion the same way. And it’s highly probably that casting Donald Trump as the best champion of religious values in America makes a lot of people see religion in a more negative way.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  216. Ok. Did I offend you in some way?

    DRJ (aede82)

  217. @216 — I think I may have seen a video from the Snoqualmie overcross awhile back. It’s nice that the critters can be safer — even the scary ones.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  218. By the way, I really liked the palette cleanser. The fawns Dana pointed out are so sweet. Was that a mother carrying a baby in its mouth on 7-17-20 @ 3:47, or an animal carrying its catch? It looked like a mother to me but I am not (at all) a wildlife expert.

    DRJ (aede82)

  219. @222, I’m not offended at all. I’m just making the observation that thinking of Donald Trump as the truest champion of religious values is an odd way to see religion, and a counterproductive way to defend the place of religion in the culture.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  220. And my impression is that some Christians (maybe especially evangelicals?) are more responsive to the views of their pastors than to Scripture.

    I think this is true, and I think it’s very problematic and lazy. We are told to study and show ourselves approved. The tendency of evangelicals to idolize pastors in the pulpit and put them on a pedestal almost invariably leads to disaster. Scriptures repeatedly warn against the idolization of man, and these past four years have demonstrated that evangelicals will do this to politicians as well. Those who latched onto Trump and touted him as a great Christian and fighting for the causes of Christianity while ignoring/excusing his corruption and lies and un-Christlike behavior out themselves as modern day idol-worshippers.

    Dana (6995e0)

  221. The Regeneron antibodies that cured President Trump are now being made available, at least in the state of Texas. Governor Greg Abbott is arranging for it to be shopped to 300 hospitals in Texas.

    That from Bloomberg News.

    There is other news about the virus. A story about how the upsurge in cases led to earlier approval of a vaccine. A story about how the Moderna vaccine approval (or testing) was delayed three weeks in the summer because the FDA didn’t find the test group racially diverse enough. (the value of that is hugely overrated – yes there is a different mix of morbidities and some special considerations, but they shouldn’t do these things)

    A story – two stories – comparing South Dakota and New Mexico.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/21/world/south-dakota-and-new-mexico-offer-a-snapshot-of-the-alternate-realities-in-the-us-pandemic.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/21/us/coronavirus-south-dakota-new-mexico.html

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  222. … thinking of Donald Trump as the truest champion of religious values is an odd way to see religion, and a counterproductive way to defend the place of religion in the culture.

    That may be true of traditional religion but not the growing non-traditional, non-denominational forms of Christianity. It is not a coincidence that Trump labels himself as non-denominational.

    DRJ (aede82)

  223. ‘[Nikki] Haley converted to Christianity in 1997. She and her husband regularly attend the United Methodist Church. She also attends Sikh services once or twice a year.’ – source, wikibio

    But can she unseat a President Harris?

    ‘[Kamala] Harris… is a Baptist, holding membership of the Third Baptist Church of San Francisco, a congregation of the American Baptist Churches USA.’ – source, wikibio

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  224. I’m just making the observation that thinking of Donald Trump as the truest champion of religious values is an odd way to see religion, and a counterproductive way to defend the place of religion in the culture.

    This is a masterpiece of understatement.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  225. Traditional Christians are often criticized as Sunday Christians. Non-denominational Christians are often looking for ways to avoid that, but it is hard to do that without incorporating some element of modern culture. Some evangelical pastors have responded to that, often in ways that bother me, but they are reaching people that did not respond to traditional religion.

    DRJ (aede82)

  226. @208 I don’t know that you can live in what is current American fast-turn-over consumer culture without buying products made by slave labor, sweat shops, worker-abuse situations, etc. Our quest for ever cheaper products, in fact, pretty much means that we are asking for products from those kind of situations. We would prefer not to know it, though, so that we can feel OK about our purchase choices.

    Nic (896fdf)

  227. I think Trump claims to be non-denomination simply to appeal to a wider swath of Christians. If he uses the broadest of terms under the umbrella of Christianity, he decreases any risk of particular groups being offended and thus possibly turning them off to him. IOW, his claims of religion are pragmatic and transactional and have almost nothing to do with living, breathing faith. And I would back that up with how we’ve seen him treat others, the decisions he has made, the uncontrolled lies he has told, and his well-established history of being motivated by that which serves him best.

    Dana (6995e0)

  228. We would prefer not to know it, though, so that we can feel OK about our purchase choices.

    I was so disturbed by the report that I went through my make-up stash and noted the products made by the companies noted for ignoring the crisis and turning a blind eye. I won’t be purchasing them again. There’s nothing I can do about the big picture, but I can make a small gesture in my own private life.

    Dana (6995e0)

  229. @233. His ‘faith’ is guided by one soul: Norman Vincent Peale.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  230. AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 11/22/2020 @ 9:39 am

    What a wonderful and sober question you ask. Why pray, indeed? Short answer: We are told to pray not just by the many examples of those who prayed, in Holy Scripture, but by Jesus Himself.

    The Disciples asked Jesus, “teach us top pray.”

    Jesus gave us the perfect prayer; The Lord’s Prayer. St. Augustine wrote about unanswered prayer – I will keep it short – Augustine wrote:

    “If anything is ordered in a way contrary to our prayer, we ought, patiently bearing the disappointment, and in everything giving thanks to God, to entertain no doubt whatever that it was right that the will of God and not our will should be done.”

    He was addressing the matter you bring up of “why does God not answer some prayers?” He reminds us of the words “thy Kingdom come, thy will be done…” To which Jesus Himself alludes on the Mount of Olives, praying “not my will, but yours.” If Jesus asks His Father to spare him, where would the justice be in that? Jesus was born to redeem us, to take the punishment for sin (past, present, and future, everywhere, for everyone!) the innocent in the place of the guilty, so that there would be perfect justice in Jesus having mercy on us.

    Even the most extreme suffering and the need of God’s intercession, on behalf of a previous righteous man, that seems to go unheeded is addressed in the Book of Job when God, Himself, responds to Job’s demand for an answer!:

    “Would you discredit my justice?
    Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

    That right there is the money shot. Justice. Perfect justice. God’s respect for man’s free will is a part of that justice. Suffering and death entered into the world with the fall of man. Yet Jesus assures us that:

    Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

    Now we come to a problem: “OK, two of us asked for “x” and we did not get it! What gives?” Almost every answer to that question, that comes from man about the matter, is always going to be limited by our fallen state, and because we continue to not pray as we ought even though we have the perfect prayer to inform us.

    The longer answer to why we should pray:

    Seek the Lord while He may be found,
    Call upon Him while He is near.
    7
    Let the [b]wicked forsake his way,
    And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
    Let him return to the Lord,
    And He will have mercy on him;
    And to our God,
    For He will abundantly pardon.

    8
    “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
    Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
    9
    “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
    So are My ways higher than your ways,
    And My thoughts than your thoughts.

    God wants us to ask for those things that lead to abundant life.

    Forgive me, Lord for the poor use of your gifts.

    felipe (023cc9)

  231. Donald Trump stands for your religious values?

    In another context, if I said to you: this person stands for lying, narcissism, rudeness, meanness and bullying, loyalty only to one’s self, extramarital sex, selfishness and self-absorption, a rejection of the need to seek forgiveness, and any other vice you can think of … what religion do you think that person would stand for?

    Even the official tenets of Satanism sound better than this set of traits.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  232. @234 That kind of thing is probably the best we can do, but honestly, non-ethically source materials are in almost everything we buy. We don’t even know the parent company of most of our products. Even famously Swedish IKEA is mostly made in China.

    Nic (896fdf)

  233. It’s so bad in Venezuela that Maduro is persecuting dedicated socialists. The opening paragraphs…

    GÜIRIA, Venezuela — The host of a popular radio show, “The People’s Combat,” had always diligently praised Venezuela’s governing Socialist Party, even as millions sank into penury under its rule. But when acute gasoline shortages paralyzed his remote fishing town this summer, he strayed from the party line.

    On his show, the host, lifelong Socialist José Carmelo Bislick, accused local party chiefs of siphoning fuel, leaving most people queuing for days outside empty gasoline stations.

    Just weeks later, on Aug. 17, four masked, armed men burst into Mr. Bislick’s house and told him he had “run the red light,” before beating him in front of his family and hauling him away into the night. He was found dead with gunshot wounds hours later, dressed in his favorite Che Guevara T-shirt.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  234. Trump uses the cloak of religion to advance himself and benefit himself financially. To assume that it is something to actually do with a real relationship with God denies reality. Because, we can judge him by the fruit he bears (or doesn’t), and even objectively speaking, what exactly is there that would lead anyone to believe that he is a man of God? The reality is, it’s always about the Trump Brand and his ego.

    Dana (6995e0)

  235. Trump, Trump, Trump. One can understand why Trump thinks he won the election, since Biden seems to be off topic.

    We all know Biden is a devout Catholic. Yeah, tell me another one.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  236. @215, but are evil and suffering a requirement for free will and not being a robot? Certainly natural suffering…like childhood cancer….does not require it….though I get that the choices that follow for a parent might…hitting the bottle, ending the marriage, succombing to depression….or not. Still, I would argue that our natural inclinations….how we were designed…..certainly lead to whole lot of additional suffering and evil. Could the human design been such that we would naturally choose from a spectrum limited to the good and the benign…..so, to exlude shooting someone on 5th avenue…or drinking to excess and posting on Patterico.com….but still provide variety and choice?

    If one believes that Adam and Eve’s choice to eat from the tree of knowledge caused our downfall, questions follow: why did an omniscient God allow it to happen and why should the curse follow all generations? It seems oddly capricious and gratuitous. If instead, God guided us to our nature via evolution and the needs to survive in a physical world, then again could he have done this without the need for evil? Either way, this seems like a flaw in omnipotence….he just couldn’t do a different design…a different world…..or a flaw in omniscience….didn’t see it coming…..or a flaw in his relationship to us…..just didn’t care enough….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  237. “Even the official tenets of Satanism sound better than this set of traits.” Haaa! Rolling!

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  238. The El Feo links, an ill-informed riposte to a exemplary Christian, are in part driven by my wait for COVID swabs results… been mildly symptomatic since Monday. To say I’m sorry is an understatement. A perfect cap to a weird year where my mom had a nasally invasive procedure to remove a small benign tumor at the merge of her retinal nerve with the brain. Recovering well she is, as Yoda would say.

    I share aphraels’s dread. On a previous thread, norcal warned us about making Trump a bigger martyr through a 2nd impeachment. I’d just as soon make him a real one if that’s what it takes to remove his person from 1600 Pennsylvania

    urbanleftbehind (fdf86a)

  239. DCSCA, though I doubt much of the 70 MM would want another inspiring brownish person, Nikki would have great security team possibly precluding Secret Service protection. Google “Sikh Wedding Fights”.

    urbanleftbehind (fdf86a)

  240. @242: A non-denominational answer that likely is not satisfying: The Omnipotent’s relationship to Man depends on the latter not knowing for certain the former exists. Your expectations regarding how the Omnipotent would use his powers seems to run counter to that.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  241. @242 IMO, yes, evil and suffering are a requirement for free will because in order to have true free will the possibility of change and a full range of outcomes and possibilities must exists and there must be non-predicatable factors and people must be able to choose evil, otherwise it isn’t free will. Free will where the results are always blunted isn’t true, knowing, free will. If you and everyone around you only really have a choice to be good, is it really a choice and does it develop a person at all if they never have to actually choose good, because all the choice are good, so your choice doesn’t really matter? How do you know what good is if you don’t ever see evil?

    I am not, as I said, a Biblical literalist, although IIRC their explanation also has something to do with free will. And, as I said above, I don’t think the choice to do good is a real choice unless you also have the choice to do evil, so no, we couldn’t have a life of free will without the ability to make the choices that we define as evil. No, he couldn’t do a different design for people intended to develop morality. Any other kind of design would result in either automatons or obedient children who only borrow their morality.

    Nic (896fdf)

  242. One can understand why Trump thinks he won the election, since Biden seems to be off topic.

    The topic would be on Biden if Trump conceded and then STFU. But he won’t. Because it’s all about him, not the country he purportedly serves.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  243. AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 11/22/2020 @ 2:12 pm

    Evil and suffering are two different things. Suffering and “evil” are consequences of sin. A rapist chooses to commit an evil act by way of free will which causes suffering not just for the victim, but the human community. The victim’s family and friends, the rapists family and friends are directly affected.

    Diseases and abnormalities, and war are also thought to be broad consequences of original sin when mankind lost the perfect condition in which they were created. I speak theologically, of course. But then there is this:

    When the disciples asked Jesus, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” (John 9:2), they expected him to identify the guilty party and show the link between tragedy and sin. But he did neither. Instead, Jesus said, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned… but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.” Then he put mud on the man’s eyes, told him to go wash them, and the man returned, seeing.

    Does Jesus say that both the man and his parents were sinless? No, he was refuting the peoples idea that if something bad happened to you, then it had to be something you did to offend god. If you remember the Book of Job, Job’s friends accused Job of deserving his misfortune due to something bad he did. His friends insisted that Job must have done something to deserve it. This idea of “you got what was coming to you” was not an attitude Jesus wanted the people of God to hold.

    Explaining God’s perfect justice first needed the context of Jesus’ perfect sacrifice of Himself for us on the cross. And even afterward there were things Jesus had to tell that we, still could not bear.

    I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

    God’s thoughts are so high above ours that we cannot yet bear them.

    felipe (023cc9)

  244. Even the official tenets of Satanism sound better than this set of traits.

    But with Satanism you don’t get a little cracker.

    Dave (1bb933)

  245. In another context, if I said to you: this person stands for lying, narcissism, rudeness, meanness and bullying, loyalty only to one’s self, extramarital sex, selfishness and self-absorption, a rejection of the need to seek forgiveness, and any other vice you can think of … what religion do you think that person would stand for?

    Catholicism:

    https://infotainworld.com/10-most-evil-popes-in-history/

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  246. @238. Even famously Swedish IKEA is mostly ‘made in China’

    Nic, the 50 year old multiple wood pieces- shelving units etc., we had shipped back from London are actually stamped ‘Made In Sweden.’ Still use them. The genuine stuff hold up quite well w/a little furniture oil.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  247. Putin stands by his … thing.

    Putin described the Kremlin’s decision not to congratulate Biden as “a formality” with no ulterior motives. When asked if the move could damage U.S.-Russia relations, he said: “there’s nothing to damage, they’re already ruined.”

    LOL

    Dave (1bb933)

  248. @245. She’d have to be a hybrid; mix of independent thought seasoned w/a little party sauce. A President Harris, though, may likely steal some of her uniqueness and thunder. It could skip a cycle or two as well; but another ‘Trump’ will eventually surface and run w/their banner. Over the longer time frame, the pattern is evident and the numbers have grown w/it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  249. @252 In the early 80s my parents bought a cheap, put it together yourself shelving set that you can use in a variety of configurations. Real wood spindles and real wood plank shelves, stained and finished. It’s still their TV stand in their den and has moved to Europe and back and then across the country, and it looks good. Slightly more than 10 years later, my college room bought what appeared to be the same set in the same brand. Plastic molded spindles, particleboard shelves covered in a poorly glued plastic laminate that almost immediately delaminated. It lasted slightly beyond college in a sorry state. I would posit that craftsmanship took a downturn sometimes in the 80s/early 90s.

    Nic (896fdf)

  250. @255. Absolutely. These pieces we brought back from Europe have really held up, were clearly crafted w/care and remain timely in appearance.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  251. So, apparently the Trump Campaign has disavowed Sidney Powell:

    “Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own. She is not a member of the Trump Legal Team. She is also not a lawyer for the President in his personal capacity.”

    – Rudy Giuliani, Attorney for President Trump, and Jenna Ellis, Trump Campaign Senior Legal Adviser and Attorney for President Trump

    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/media/trump-campaign-statement-on-legal-team/

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  252. Breaking: Sidney Powell has been fired. (or maybe they couldn’t agree on a fee?)

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  253. Or she told Trump he wasn’t going to win?

    Dave (1bb933)

  254. So who will fill the empty seat in the clown car?

    Dave (1bb933)

  255. My guess is he was mad about Pennsylvania, and had to blame someone for it. He will never, ever acknowledge that *he* is the problem – not the states, not the ballot counts, not the governors or legislative bodies, or the election officials. Just him alone.

    Dana (6995e0)

  256. @257 This the worst clown show. Angry, talentless clowns who keep walking off stage because they aren’t being paid. It’s worse than an empty stage. No, its ever worse worse than an empty stage. It’s worse than… experimental theatre. Someone here promised me entertainment! I want my money back!

    Nic (896fdf)

  257. CNN is reporting that at least one of the two Republicans on the Michigan Board of Canvassers will vote in favor of Trump’s coup instead of democracy.

    Dave (1bb933)

  258. I saw the New York Times referred to Sidney Powell in in a picture caption in an article by Linda Qiu on page A16 of the Friday, November 20, 2020 New York Times as Michael T. Flynn’s former lawyer, but can;t locate any story that said she stopped representing him.

    It goes:

    Sidney Powell, left, a Trump election lawyer, with her former client, Michael T. Flynn

    The picture credit goes to Manuel Balce Cineta/Associated Press.

    He is not referred to as her former client in the online version of the article:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/technology/sidney-powell-venezuela.html

    Where thepicture is in color, and at the top, and the caption reads:

    Sidney Powell, an election lawyer for President Trump, leaving a federal court last year with Michael T. Flynn.Credit…Manuel Balce Ceneta/Associated Press

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  259. I actually believe Sidney Powell when she said her election lawsuit “will be biblical”. It will be as biblical as the story of Jabez (I Chronicles 4:10), i.e., biblically insignificant.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  260. It’s quite hilarious that this was Trump’s “elite strike force” legal team, they have one has been (Rudy), and two never were’s.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  261. Or she told Trump he wasn’t going to win?

    So who will fill the empty seat in the clown car?

    Well, it might be actually what she said was too much for Donald Trump, or she was promsing him evidence that never developed.

    She was saying Governor Brian Kemp of Georgia had been bribed to throw the election to Biden..

    In addition, she claimed that Kemp had rigged the election so that Trump defender Congressman Doug Collins didn’t make the runoff.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/11/22/trump-campaign-cuts-ties-with-lawyer-sidney-powell-who-promoted-wild-election-fraud-conspiracy-theories

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  262. @262. Cuomo stole his Emmy. And never forget, Gilligan’s Island helped win the Cold War. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  263. @262. The focus on Trump is sort of a head-fake. Much more intriguing is how ol’President-elect Biden is handling w/this- now day two into his 79th year. And a fella w/47-plus years of gov’t experience no less. Excuses, complaints, etc,. If fielding grounders from the Trump team is a troublesome obstacle, wait ’til he starts playing hard ball w/Putin and Jinping.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  264. Still working my way through the thread, but this made me burst out laughing:

    In 2024 Trump will be 78 years old and fishing in his swimming pool in Florida with a rod and reel but no hook in a Depends adult diaper.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/21/2020 @ 7:58 pm

    norcal (a5428a)

  265. Sidney Powell seems to be a promoter or a supporter of QAnon tropes…

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/wx8n8w/trumps-lawyer-sidney-powell-is-hardcore-qanon

    ….and I never thought QAnon was trying to help Trump.

    I just couldn’t figure out who was behind it. Not enough information. It’s the sort of thing that when and if you hear it, you’ll say: that fits, but I haven’t heard anything that makes sense yet.

    The pedophilia angle sounded like Russian propaganda, (Pizzagate, for instance, was Russian propaganda, and they framed Vladimir Bukovsky in the UK by planting child pornography on his computer) but Putin is supposed to be pro Trump, not trying to sabotage him, and all that QAnon did
    was to create complacency among Trump supporters plus make sure they couldn’t convince anyone else.

    So who was behind it? You could say Democrats, because everything QAnon did was calculated, it seemed to me, to help the Democratic Party win elections, but it was too virulently anti-Democrat for any Democrat to be behind it.

    And anyway, where’d they get the pedophilia angle from?

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  266. I think the Trumpkins promised her non-existent evidence that made her look like a fool in court and in public, or Rudy slipped his hand up her skirt and she slapped him across the room, either one just as likely, and both the most likely.

    nk (1d9030)

  267. The Empire Strikes Back:

    Bloomberg News reports Ol’Joe Biden had selected Antony Blinken as his nominee for Secretary of State.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  268. QAnon is the pedophile network, Sammy, organized for four purposes:
    1. To network with each other.
    2. To cloak themselves as the opponents and not the perpetrators.
    3. To accuse innocent people in order to dilute the credibility of accusations they might face.
    4. To claim that their activities and “collections” are investigation and research.

    nk (1d9030)

  269. experimental theatre?

    (New York Times Venezuela story)

    Since the election, Ms. Powell has advanced claims of voluminous voter fraud and a rigged election. She falsely claimed that a supercomputer called Hammer hacked votes, that Mr. Trump won the election by “millions of votes” and that voting software company Dominion Voting Systems altered the tallies.

    Last week, she promised that coming evidence would overturn the election’s results and said she would “release the Kraken,” a reference to the 1981 movie “The Clash of the Titans,” reprising a catchphrase that began trending on Twitter.

    On Monday, Ms. Powell posted some of her so-called evidence on Twitter. It consisted of three screenshots of an affidavit that she said was signed by a former military official from Venezuela about elections there. The screenshots were incomplete and did not include a name or signature, and Ms. Powell did not respond to requests to view the full document.

    But according to her and excerpts from the affidavit, the elections software company Smartmatic helped the Venezuelan government rig its elections by switching votes and leaving no trail. The military official said in the excerpts that the U.S. election was “eerily reminiscent” of what happened in Venezuela’s 2013 presidential election, though no evidence was provided that votes had been switched in the United States.

    Ms. Powell promoted the affidavit and its claims in interviews on conservative media that have amassed at least four million views on YouTube.

    “This person saw, by his own experience, exactly what was happening there was happening here,” Ms. Powell explained to Fox News on Monday.

    At the press conference on Thursday, after Giuliani: (from Vox)

    This is how Powell began her statement at the press conference:

    “What we are really dealing with here, and uncovering more by the day, is the massive influence of communist money through Venezuela, Cuba, and likely China in the interference with our elections here in the United States.”

    What followed was virtually a recitation of QAnon’s greatest hits, and Powell ended her tirade almost in tears, essentially telling those listening to “stick to the plan,” a phrase that has become a QAnon rallying cry since Trump lost the election.

    “We are not going to back down,” she said. “We are going to clean this mess up now. President Trump won by a landslide. We are going to prove it, and we are going to reclaim the United States of America for the people who vote for freedom.”

    The comments were essentially a dog whistle to the QAnon community, which has been waging a disinformation war on social media since the election earlier this month, helping to boost conspiracy theories that have made their way to the Oval Office.

    Giuliani and Powell’s comments have been widely criticized. Chris Krebs, the recently fired head of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), called Thursday’s press conference “the most dangerous 1hr 45 minutes of television in American history. And possibly the craziest.”

    Then, on Saturday, she went on Newsmax TV and said Governor Brian Kemp of Georgia had been bribed to cause Donald Trump to lose the state and also that he had contrived to have representative Doug Collins come in the third in a Senate race.

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  270. This is the “OJ in the Bronco” stage of @realDonaldTrump ‘s presidency.

    https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1330186291137404932

    So funny!

    BTW, his marriage to Kellyanne is even more baffling than Carville/Matalin. It’s not just a couple of pundits. Kellyanne worked for Trump.

    norcal (a5428a)

  271. Maybe QAnon is Russia, but Putin is not so much interested in Trump as in some people in the Trump universe whom he hopes to promote, and is/was looking forward to 2024 and later, and spreading sometimes anti-semitic anti-American-vaccine propaganda. (the head of Pfizer is Jewish and he was born in Salonika after the Nazis murdered 96% of the Jewish population living there, and so to say the vaccine is really deadly poison may play well in Greece, or at least not hurt a small paper like Makeleio. People’s heads in Greece have been stuffed with hateful anti-American and other nonsense for a couple of generations now.)

    Trump’s actual foreign policy was not pro-Russia so who won in 2020 was maybe not too important to Putin compared to advancing some people he hoped would be close to him, even if they were longshots. And Putin doesn’t have Parkinson’s disease.

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  272. I was trying to think of who QAnon nutter Sidney Powell reminded me of in that press conference with Giuliani, and it finally came to me.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  273. @247, If it’s true that free will necessitates both good and evil, then we do have a moral problem. There is significant natural and and man-induced suffering in the world. It is there precisely because of free will. Our capacity to have free will is due solely to God. We never chose to have free will, we were simply given the ability. God decided that imbuing humans with free will was sufficiently important to him to justify all of the Auschwitz’s, starvations, rapes, cancers, and turtures that have gone on throughout history. This becomes less troubling if God truly is not omniscient and could claim he didn’t know how bad it was going to be. Otherwise, God is not exactly all caring….lives are sacrificed for the good of him having free creatures to search him out. You might say….well….it’s Adam and Eve’s fault….but neither chose to have the ability to choose….and if God is omniscient, he certainly knew what they would choose in that Garden….heck he created and placed the serpent in there, right?

    Let’s face it….God is the ultimate author of suffering in the world….this is his design. Humans acted like humans…no more, no less. The assertion that he had to sacrifice himself to himself to make up for the rules he established in our nature to enter into his kingdom where too he sets the rules…..well….that’s a tall one to get behind…

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  274. Sarah Cooper on Twitter:

    Republicans: It looks like Joe Biden has a pretty good chance but let’s wait and see

    Too many people:

    It looks like the vaccines have a pretty good chance of working but let’s wait and see.

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  275. To accuse innocent people in order to dilute the credibility of accusations they might face.

    There’s a lot of that going on.

    Some innocent people in Holland have been murdered by “pedo-hunters.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/world/europe/netherlands-pedophile-hunters.html

    When a group of teenagers arranged a meeting with a 73-year-old former teacher, their intention was clear: to lure and expose someone they believed to be a pedophile.

    But their meeting last month turned into a fatal assault, Dutch public prosecutors say, raising the alarm that such vigilante justice has gone too far….Eight people were arrested over the 73-year-old’s death, and seven remain suspects. Two minors are still in custody, according to a spokeswoman for the public prosecutor’s office. She said that the man had no known history of sexually abusing minors.

    …In recent years, several online groups have taken up a crusade to root out pedophilia around the world. On Facebook, Dutch groups with names like “Pedohunters NL” and “pedophiles unmasked” have amassed thousands of followers. But the Dutch authorities say the rise of in-person confrontations is a concerning new development.

    In a separate incident in Arnhem, a group who intended to “hunt” someone they thought was a pedophile had traveled from three Dutch provinces and were later arrested. Last weekend, another group of young people assaulted a man whom they believed to be a pedophile in the southern province of Zeeland, sending him to the hospital, according to the police. And another man in Zeeland went into hiding this month after his picture was published in one of the vigilante Facebook groups, according to local news reports.

    Although the reasons behind the rise in such instances in the Netherlands are unclear, experts say that likely factors include pandemic restrictions, which have allowed for more time online, and the rise of conspiracy theories like QAnon.

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  276. norcal (a5428a) — 11/22/2020 @ 6:02 pm

    BTW, his marriage to Kellyanne is even more baffling than Carville/Matalin. It’s not just a couple of pundits. Kellyanne worked for Trump.

    But then Carville worked for Bill Clinton. In fact he came up with the slogan for others in the campaign: “It’s the economy, stupid.”

    And Matalin worked for George Bush the Elder.

    Sammy Finkelman (bc65ac)

  277. I was in the Bay Area yesterday, and had dinner with my ex-girlfriend. She asked me if I voted for Trump. I replied in the negative, confident she would find this a pleasing answer, because she seemed rather apolitical or disapproving of Trump in 2016.

    Imagine my surprise when she told me she voted for Trump, and that Biden did not win it fair and square!

    She told me she had come to believe in small government and low taxes, and expressed a wish to move to a state with no income tax (like Nevada). She said I had influenced her to think this way during our relationship.

    Unfortunately, she has conflated conservative principles with support for Trump! (In her defense, I made the same mistake in 2016. Besides, she is an immigrant who hasn’t paid a fraction of the attention to politics that I have.)

    Do I get credit for her adoption of conservative ideas, or does her support for Trump negate it? I’m not Catholic, but do I need to seek absolution for this state of affairs?

    norcal (a5428a)

  278. @282 Point taken, Sammy. I am in a state of wonderment about both marriages.

    norcal (a5428a)

  279. @279 Only if you look at things from a human lifetime, human centered, corporeal life state is the ultimate existence viewpoint. In comparison with having life for an eternity, the amount of time we spend in a corporeal lifestate is minuscule. If you look at it from the entire universe viewpoint, the comparative amount of suffering is minuscule. We don’t have the ability to have a universal viewpoint, our brains don’t work that way, we have no perspective. Think of it this way (metaphor incoming) a new parent brings their baby home. Baby falls asleep nursing. Mom puts baby down in the room temperature crib, baby immediately wakes up crying like their heart is broken. This is the coldest they have ever been, it’s terrible, they are suffering horribly, why would mom do this to them OMG? From a universe level of eternity, our worst experiences are probably not even the equivalent of a small child who accidentally touches a hot burner and immediately jerks away, leaving them with a small blister for a couple of days.

    Nic (896fdf)

  280. Nic, you articulate the believer side very well. The same is true of AJ_Liberty for the non-believer side.

    norcal (a5428a)

  281. I have come to think that faith is not a matter of intellect, but rather that of emotion.

    norcal (a5428a)

  282. @286 Thank you. It feels like a respectful back and forth and I hope that AJ_Liberty feels the same way. It helps when the discussion partners aren’t treating each other like they are stupid/heretical. 😛

    Nic (896fdf)

  283. It’s Sydney Powell’s lucky day: the tire marks are vertical. Very flattering.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  284. @289 Are those the tire marks from the Bronco in which Trump is riding?

    norcal (a5428a)

  285. I have a friend in Sparks who used to own a white 90s Bronco with Nevada plates that said “GOT OJ”. She even scored a mention on local radio.

    norcal (a5428a)

  286. I would think that a person in Trump’s situation, potentially facing criminal charges and IRS liens, would not be spending his remaining political capital quite so wantonly.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  287. LOL Cruz

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  288. Giuliani releases statement distancing Trump campaign from lawyer Sidney Powell
    The president’s legal team was thrown into tumult Sunday when two Trump attorneys — Rudolph W. Giuliani and Jenna Ellis — released a statement abruptly distancing the campaign from a third attorney, Sidney Powell.

    Giuliani, Ellis and Powell all appeared together at a news conference Thursday, when they made a range of baseless accusations about the integrity of the election. Powell, in particular, has lobbed some of the most convoluted claims, alleging a conspiracy that involved “communist money,” the late Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez and an algorithm favoring Democrats.

    “Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own,” Giuliani and Ellis said in their statement Sunday. “She is not a member of the Trump Legal Team. She is also not a lawyer for the President in his personal capacity.”
    ……….
    Under the bus goes Powell.

    Rip Murdock (8898a2)

  289. RIP Daniel Cordier (100), French resistance hero.

    Rip Murdock (8898a2)

  290. Unfortunately, she has conflated conservative principles with support for Trump! (In her defense, I made the same mistake in 2016. Besides, she is an immigrant who hasn’t paid a fraction of the attention to politics that I have.)

    Do I get credit for her adoption of conservative ideas, or does her support for Trump negate it? I’m not Catholic, but do I need to seek absolution for this state of affairs?

    norcal (a5428a) — 11/22/2020 @ 6:51 pm

    I really hope you’re trying to parody a leftist with these remarks.

    NJRob (d6e0e0)

  291. Orin Kerr:

    2017: It is an outrage to investigate claims of wrongdoing by the Trump campaign related to the 2016 election, even if credible.

    2020: I’m not saying Castro and Jimmy Hoffa necessarily rigged the 2020 election out of a basement apartment in Jersey, but shouldn’t we look into it?

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  292. Interesting that Biden VP finalist (and “simpatico” Obama-era colleague) Susan Rice apparently won’t be SoS, NatSec Advisor, or UN ambassador.

    CIA, SecDef or Homeland Security, while I haven’t seen names mentioned, seem like even tougher confirmation sells than SoS would have been, and hence unlikely.

    Rice said a few days ago that she was “very open” to working in Biden’s administration. But it’s becoming less clear where that could be.

    Dave (1bb933)

  293. Nic, thanks for the discussion…..it was nice not to talk about something other than Trump….if only for a piece of a Sunday. And I’m actually not antagonistic toward religion, a lot of good things happen because people believe…things inside and outside.

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  294. @300 Back atcha. I don’t have any issues with people who aren’t believers and I’m one of those weird people who like those discussions on a philosophical level.

    Generally speaking I figure most people do the best they can to live a good life.

    Nic (896fdf)

  295. @297 Nice continuation on Radegunda’s animal theme!

    norcal (a5428a)

  296. @296 Not parody. I’m happy that she supports conservative ideas, but disappointed that she’s fallen for Trump’s shtick.

    norcal (a5428a)

  297. Legendary Arecibo Telescope Will Close Forever, and Scientists Are Reeling
    ‘A new satellite image reveals the damage that shut down the facility, ending an era in astronomical observation’

    “One of astronomy’s most renowned telescopes—the 305-metre-wide radio telescope at Arecibo, Puerto Rico—is permanently closing. Engineers cannot find a safe way to repair it after two cables supporting the structure suddenly and catastrophically broke, one in August and one in early November.

    It is the end of one of the most iconic and scientifically productive telescopes in the history of astronomy—and scientists are mourning its loss.

    The Arecibo telescope, which was built in 1963, was the world’s largest radio telescope for decades and has historical and modern importance in astronomy. It was the site from which astronomers sent an interstellar radio message in 1974, in case any extraterrestrials might hear it, and where the first known extrasolar planet was discovered, in 1992. It has also done pioneering work in detecting near-Earth asteroids, observing the puzzling celestial blasts known as fast radio bursts, and studying many other phenomena. All of those lines of investigation are now shut down for good, although limited science continues at some smaller facilities at the Arecibo site… The US National Science Foundation (NSF), owns [the] Arecibo Observatory…”

    source, – https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/legendary-arecibo-telescope-will-close-forever-and-scientists-are-reeling/

    One giant loss for mankind.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  298. God decided that imbuing humans with free will was sufficiently important to him to justify all of the Auschwitz’s, starvations, rapes, cancers, and turtures that have gone on throughout history.

    No. God gave us free will so that we could choose, or not, to return His love. It is we who chose to cause “all of the Auschwitz’s, starvations, rapes, cancers, and turtures that have gone on throughout history.” You may well ask “why didn’t he stop us?” But that would be ignoring the consequences, for us, of exercising our free will. A freedom God perfectly respects, unlike our lack of respect for Him and each other.

    Let’s face it….God is the ultimate author of suffering in the world….this is his design. Humans acted like humans…no more, no less. The assertion that he had to sacrifice himself to himself to make up for the rules he established in our nature to enter into his kingdom where too he sets the rules…..well….that’s a tall one to get behind…
    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 11/22/2020 @ 6:27 pm

    No, no, no. God is not the author of suffering. God is the author of life. God is love. Man is the author of suffering. God created man with free will out of love. What man did with free will caused suffering and death to enter into the world.

    Please do no take this the wrong way, but it is childish to assign blame to God for our decisions. This attitude leads to total ruin of personal responsibility in a similar way to Luther’s idea that man is simply “ridden” by either God or the Devil. We commit sin when the devil rides us, and good when God rides us. In short, we are not responsible for our actions, they are.

    We rejected God’s design – in the beginning – and continue to do so every day. God did not will this rejection, we do.

    The assertion that he had to sacrifice himself to himself to make up for the rules he established in our nature to enter into his kingdom where too he sets the rules…..well….that’s a tall one to get behind…

    First, God “had” to sacrifice Himself for us because He loves us! It is the proof for we which we are always asking. “If You love me, Lord, prove it!” Holy Scripture can be seen as a giant love letter from God Where His overtures are constantly being rebuffed by us. God performs miracle after miracle that we choose to ignore.

    Think about this. Jesus is God. Jesus subjected Himself, fully man – fully God, to all the pain and suffering His creatures inflict on each other. Why would He do that? Would you do that to make a point? The tiniest of insights might see that one “upside” to Jesus’ suffering at our hands would be to have credibility, in our selfish eyes, when someone wonders “Lord, do you even know what it is like to suffer as I do?” The answer is “yes. I do, and I was innocent, undeserving of it”

    The “rules he established in our nature…” again seeks to impute to God the responsibility for our choices we make. “I behave the way God made me.”

    “To enter the kingdom where too he makes the rules” This sounds like the childish rebellion common to teen-agers who only see rules as obstacles set before them as an abatis to their own desires and designs. It is the distant echo of “non servium.”

    “well….that’s a tall one to get behind…” Indeed, it is because you constructed the tale that way.

    felipe (023cc9)

  299. While Arecibo was a revolutionary and pioneering instrument when it was commissioned (in the year I was born!), its relative lack of importance today is reflected by a paltry $2M/year operating budget (down from ~$8M a few years ago). And that’s probably a big reason why it’s not worth the cost to repair or rebuild.

    At the 21cm wavelength where a lot of radio astronomy is done, Arecibo’s angular resolution is about 3.5 arcminutes; roughly 1/9th the diameter of the moon, as seen from Earth.

    The more modern Very Long Baseline Array (VLBA) has an angular resolution of a few milliarcseconds. 1 milliarcsecond is the size of a dime on top of the Eiffel Tower, as seen from New York City.

    Dave (1bb933)

  300. two million dollars is almost enough to cover a golf trip to florida for president donald after a hard week of watching foxnews mr dave

    leave it to failmerica to waste it on some fake telescope in a sh*thole country instead

    Dave (1bb933)

  301. Dang. The Trump campaign removed Carole Baskin from their legal team.

    noel (9fead1)

  302. AstraZeneca: COVID-19 vaccine shown to be ‘highly effective’
    AstraZeneca said Monday that late-stage trials showed its coronavirus vaccine was up to 90% effective, giving public health officials hope they may soon have access to a vaccine that is cheaper and easier to distribute than some of its rivals.
    …….
    Pfizer and Moderna last week reported preliminary results from late-stage trials showing their vaccines were almost 95% effective. But, unlike its rivals, the AstraZeneca vaccine doesn’t have to be stored at ultra-cold temperatures, making it easier to distribute, especially in developing countries.
    ………
    The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is also cheaper. AstraZeneca, which has pledged it won’t make a profit on the vaccine during the pandemic, has reached agreements with governments and international health organizations that put its price at about $2.50 a dose. Pfizer’s vaccine costs about $20 a dose, while Moderna’s is $15 to $25, based on agreements the companies have struck to supply their vaccines to the U.S. government.
    …….
    The AstraZeneca trial looked at two different dosing regimens. A half-dose of the vaccine followed by a full dose at least one month later was 90% effective. Another approach, giving patients two full doses one month apart, was 62% effective. The combined results showed an average efficacy rate of 70%.
    …….
    The vaccine can be transported under “normal refrigerated conditions” of 2 to 8 degrees Celsius (36 to 46 degrees Fahrenheit), AstraZeneca said. By comparison, Pfizer plans to distribute its vaccine using specially designed “thermal shippers” that use dry ice to maintain temperatures of minus-70 degrees Celsius (minus-94 degrees Fahrenheit).
    ……..
    The claims by governments that COVID-19 vaccines will be “free” to their citizens is specious. As noted above, Big Pharma has supply agreements with governments to pay them billions of taxpayer dollars for their vaccines. Corporations do nothing for free. Government plans to distribute vaccines for “free” is the ultimate in socialized medicine.

    Rip Murdock (5890f2)

  303. Felipe, you say

    “but it is childish to assign blame to God for our decisions”

    but certainly a 2-year suffering from terminal cancer did not decide to do something to get cancer…nor did a family who drowned in a tsunami in Thailand? We may have more culpability for starvation with technology these days, but what about a couple of hundred of years ago…..where mass starvation could decimate a village? Does God help…or is he only on the sidelines going “well, isn’t that too bad”

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  304. @304-
    All good things……
    -Star Trek TNG series finale.

    Rip Murdock (5890f2)

  305. When the stars threw down their spears
    And water’d heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

    Tyger Tyger burning bright,
    In the forests of the night:
    What immortal hand or eye,
    Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?
    [– If you need to be told the source, it won’t do you any good to tell you, at least as far as this discussion is concerned.]

    If there had been no Creation, if God’s Will was expressed purely in spirit, then the World would be perfect. But all that is material is imperfect, impermanent, and perishable. Whether man wills it or not.

    It’s as good a rationalization as any, and all the “explanations” are mere rationalizations, because the monkeys who really have not advanced all that much from “Banana here, leopard there!” are a long way away both from understanding God, life, the universe and everything, and having the language to express that understanding.

    I also recommend the “Madagascar” movies, and you will need to find the relevance for yourselves there, too.

    nk (1d9030)

  306. St. Jude scientists make breakthrough and discover possible COVID-19 treatment:

    Scientists at St. Jude may have figured out how COVID-19 kills, and more importantly, how to stop it.

    The virus has already claimed 250,000 lives in the U.S. and more than a million worldwide. This week, St. Jude researchers announced they think they’ve discovered a treatment.

    DRJ (aede82)

  307. Treatment is great but so is antigen testing at home:

    Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Authorizes First COVID-19 Test for Self-Testing at Home

    The Lucira COVID-19 All-In-One Test Kit test has been authorized for home use with self-collected nasal swab samples in individuals age 14 and older who are suspected of COVID-19 by their health care provider. It is also authorized for use in point-of-care (POC) settings (e.g., doctor’s offices, hospitals, urgent care centers and emergency rooms) for all ages but samples must be collected by a healthcare provider when the test is used at the POC to test individuals younger than 14 years old. The test is currently authorized for prescription use only.

    The test works by swirling the self-collected sample swab in a vial that is then placed in the test unit. In 30 minutes or less, the results can be read directly from the test unit’s light-up display that shows whether a person is positive or negative for the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Positive results indicate the presence of SARS-CoV-2. Individuals with positive results should self-isolate and seek additional care from their health care provider. Individuals who test negative and experience COVID-like symptoms should follow up with their health care provider as negative results do not preclude an individual from SARS-CoV-2 infection.

    Why is this prescription only? My guess is for monitoring purposes but it should be OTC.

    DRJ (aede82)

  308. So the home test will have limited use until Spring:

    The Lucira COVID-19 All-In-One Test Kit will be limited to patients at Sutter Health in Northern California and Cleveland Clinic Florida in Miami-Fort Lauderdale until next spring. And even then, you must have symptoms and a health provider’s referral to get the test.

    With the nation’s labs, doctors and urgent care centers routinely testing more than 1.5 million Americans each day, experts don’t expect the new test will make an immediate and meaningful difference for most Americans.

    “I’m afraid in the near future, it’s not going to have a large impact,” said Dr. Patrick Godbey, president of the College of American Pathologists. “It’s not going to be distributed widely until the spring.”

    Dumb.

    DRJ (aede82)

  309. @314

    Why is this prescription only? My guess is for monitoring purposes but it should be OTC.

    DRJ (aede82) — 11/23/2020 @ 6:35 am

    Limited supply for awhile, so you can only get it if you’re diagnosed correctly.

    Also, it could also be the delivery method that for some folks may not be able to take. (as in, what else is in the solution to that delivers the antigens).

    And lastly, it gives the manufacturer more pricing controls.

    whembly (15c62b)

  310. @313

    St. Jude scientists make breakthrough and discover possible COVID-19 treatment:

    Scientists at St. Jude may have figured out how COVID-19 kills, and more importantly, how to stop it.
    The virus has already claimed 250,000 lives in the U.S. and more than a million worldwide. This week, St. Jude researchers announced they think they’ve discovered a treatment.

    DRJ (aede82) — 11/23/2020 @ 6:30 am

    In my neck of the woods, we think it’s dexamethasone (DECARDAN) and our academic campus has been doing studies on this for quite awhile.

    whembly (15c62b)

  311. but certainly a 2-year suffering from terminal cancer did not decide to do something to get cancer…nor did a family who drowned in a tsunami in Thailand?

    why describe a 2 year old? Why not a 29 year old, a 59 year old a 80 year old? And why choose terminal cancer, trunami, hunger? Why exclude so many others? Aren’t they worthy of consideration? Why are you not doing anything about this yourself? Why be so cold and unloving? Don’t you care at all. You pose questions from the comfort of your own perch, amidst all this suffering. Expecting the solution to be constanly provided for you.

    At some point you must decide if you are going to personaly respond to all the suffering around you. If there is no God, does that mean you are “off the hook” to do something about all this suffering? What about those poor deluded saps that feed the poor, console the mourning, accompany, even with only a single embrace, the dying? Are they misguided, wasting their time? There are concrete examples of God’s love all around you. Why has man not yet given up entirely? Why does faith persist? Where are all these suffering children, drowning people, disease-ridden people coming from in the first place? Could it be that People still fall in love? Actually have children. Actually scratch out a living and continue to give worship to God in all these circumstances? From where does all this new life come?

    These are not abstract ideas, they are people all around you. The suffering in prison, the homeless nearby.

    Today, go to a nursing home and offer to volunteer a few hours of your time. You will likely learn more about love and your place in the human community than anyone can teach you in a lecture. If this is too bothersome, or if you are turned away, then chose the first street beggar and just talk to them for awhile. Treat them like another human being, giving them their dignity. You will see that this simple gesture means more to them than alms tossed from a car window.

    You have hands, feet, eyes. If you do not use them to ease the suffering around you, but instead stand around calling to the wind waiting for the work to be done for you, have you contributed anything? Or are you the one saying “gee, isn’t that too bad?”

    I tell you this because there is a truth about suffering. Suffering provokes compassion. You are responding to that provocation! You know you have compassion. It’s time to stop being a bystander who says “where is your God now?” Do something. Represent yourself.

    felipe (023cc9)

  312. And lastly, it gives the manufacturer more pricing controls.
    whembly (15c62b) — 11/23/2020 @ 7:54 am

    Quite right, whembly. And not just the manufacturer, but the distribution can be better controlled all the way to the delivery to the recipients. The prevention of a black market being a welcome benefit.

    felipe (023cc9)

  313. @319

    The prevention of a black market being a welcome benefit.

    felipe (023cc9) — 11/23/2020 @ 8:21 am

    It certainly helps… but black market pharmaceuticals, even excluding illegal narcotics, is still a multi-billion dollar industry.

    whembly (15c62b)

  314. Trump lost the election by millions in the popular vote and hundreds of thousands of votes in the swing states. He’s be vocal since then that it was ‘stolen’ due to voter fraud.

    He’s filed many lawsuits, none of which alleged fraud on a scale sufficient to change the outcome.

    One of his crazier lawyers, Sidney Powell, had theory the the software was designed to allow a 3rd party to pick the winner. Apparently she’s been let go. But I haven’t seen any formal rejection of her theory from the Trump campaign, and it’s not very different from what Rudy has been saying.

    If this drama by the Trump campaign doesn’t bring some evidence of wide spread fraud to light I’m going to have to conclude that voter fraud didn’t exist on a scale that can swing a presidential election and that we don’t need to make it harder for citizens to vote in order to make our elections more secure.

    Time123 (653992)

  315. Yep, no argument from me. To be fair there are places where the availability of meds in the black market are the only way to obtain them at all.

    felipe (023cc9)

  316. ‘One kind of fraud': Biden won thousands of illegal votes by noncitizens, study shows

    Just Facts concluded that thousands of “extra” noncitizen votes went to Mr. Biden, enough to flip Arizona (plus 51,081) and Georgia (plus 54,950), but not sufficient to flip the election.

    “This is just one kind of fraud,” Mr. Agresti told The Washington Times. “It’s a sizable number, which is the point. It also decimates the predominant narrative that there is no evidence of large-scale fraud in U.S. elections.”

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  317. When does Trump tell his voters to stay home from the Georgia runoff because the state is treating him very unfairly…?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8976193/Trump-attorney-Lin-Wood-says-Republicans-withhold-votes-Georgia-primary.html

    Appalled (1a17de)

  318. “Just Facts” and “Washington Times” must be exceptional researchers indeed to know who voted and who they voted for. Given how most of the fraud seems to be benefiting Trump, and Trump is overtly trying to steal an election, it is remarkable that in this case the evidence shows the opposite.

    Oh what’s that you say? They didn’t have that evidence? OHHHHH.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  319. A new study estimates that presumptive President-elect Joseph R. Biden benefited from thousands of illegal votes by noncitizens, providing President Trump‘s backers with another potential argument for a fraud-tainted election.

    Interesting methodology but the headline isn’t an accurate summary of the study.

    Unless someone can show me evidence it actually happened I’m going to chalk it up as another stupid conspiracy theory. Trump has vigorously challenged the results in AZ and NZ and this didn’t come up.

    Time123 (653992)

  320. What is really sad is that election integrity has been a major GOP issue for decades, and like immigration, it’s going to become a third rail due to selfishness in the moment.

    As Kevin mentioned a week ago, if the GOP even were to miraculously get its way, they would win a ruined nation and four years of calamity. Why would they prefer that to sniping at Biden? Just because Trump can’t admit he lost?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  321. Oh what’s that you say? They didn’t have that evidence? OHHHHH.

    You didn’t read the article. Shocker.

    Mr. Trump set up a blue-ribbon commission to delve into voter registration lists to produce a definitive finding. But Democrat-run states balked at turning over data and the commission went away.

    Last year, Texas officials found 95,000 noncitizens illegally registered to vote. The state compared drivers licenses, which contain immigration status, to voter rolls.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  322. beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/23/2020 @ 8:48 am

    Like all the rest the Trump loyalist brigades, there are allegations of illegal votes but no actual evidence of illegal votes.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  323. Like all the rest the Trump loyalist brigades, there are allegations of illegal votes but no actual evidence of illegal votes.

    There are allegations that Democrats and their fellow travelers don’t want audits of voter rolls, so as to actually obtain evidence, and don’t want voter ID either. Allegations that happen to be 100% true.

    Tell me, Montagu, in the absence of hard evidence, how many illegal votes do you think we’re dealing with?

    1. Zero
    2. A handful.
    3. Thousands.
    4. Many tens of thousands of more,

    Pick one.

    Unless it’s #1, you know there are legit citizens’ votes getting cancelled out by illegal votes. You don’t seem to care, as long as you get the result you want.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  324. Get back to me when you have 100% voter participation. We need illegal aliens to do the jobs Americans won’t do other than marrying Trump, putting up his buildings, and maintaining his country clubs, and why not voting too?

    Anyway, this so called study is worth about as much as a Trump tweet. All the fraud is by Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  325. Biden Will Nominate First Woman to Lead Intelligence, First Latino to Run Homeland Security
    …….
    At an event in Wilmington, Del., Mr. Biden will announce plans to nominate Alejandro Mayorkas to be his secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, his transition office said, and Avril Haines to be his director of national intelligence. He intends to name (John) Kerry as a special presidential envoy on climate. The transition office also confirmed reports on Sunday night that Mr. Biden will nominate Antony J. Blinken to be secretary of state and Jake Sullivan as national security adviser.
    …….
    If confirmed, Mr. Mayorkas, who served as deputy Homeland Security secretary from 2013 to 2016, would be the first Latino to run the department charged with implementing and managing the nation’s immigration policies.
    …….
    Ms. Haines served as deputy director of the C.I.A. in the Obama administration before succeeding Mr. Blinken as Mr. Obama’s deputy national security adviser. She, too, is a former aide to Mr. Biden, serving as deputy chief counsel to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from 2007 to 2008 while Mr. Biden was chairman. Ms. Haines also served as counsel to Mr. Obama’s National Security Council, helping him navigate legal issues around counterterrorism operations and pressing for more restraint to reduce civilian casualties.

    If confirmed, Ms. Haines will be the highest-ranking woman to serve in the intelligence community. The director of the C.I.A., now led by its first female director in Gina Haspel, reports to the director of national intelligence.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  326. Popehat raises an interesting question about elite strike team non-member Sidney Powell:

    Query: if she was not part of the President’s legal team, what is her theory on how communications with the President and that team were privileged?

    Dave (1bb933)

  327. “Tell me, Montagu, in the absence of hard evidence, how many illegal votes do you think we’re dealing with?”

    The answer is 2. I’m aware of a couple specifically, both Republicans voting for their dead parents.

    “Unless it’s #1, you know there are legit citizens’ votes getting cancelled out by illegal votes.”

    How many legit citizen voters are you willing to disenfranchise to achieve zero illegal votes? You don’t seem to care, as long as you get the result you want.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  328. National Review’s Jim Geraghty didn’t get the memo I guess:

    On Cabinet Picks So Far, Biden Could Do a Lot Worse

    Good for Jim.

    Dave (1bb933)

  329. What line did Sidney Powell cross that Rudy Giuliani didn’t?
    There’s no question that, at least at one point, Sidney Powell was part of President Trump’s legal team as he pushed to overturn the will of the voters and earn a second consecutive term as president. Trump himself had touted her involvement in his “truly great team.” She was one of three attorneys who spoke during last week’s wild, overheated campaign news conference in which the “elite strike force” (as one member described them) delineated a wide-ranging and obviously hollow case for how Trump had somehow been wronged. Afterward, both Trump and the Republican Party shared snippets of her arguments.
    …….
    Powell did do two things that Giuliani avoided, however.

    The first was that she implied the involvement of Republican elected officials in her delineated conspiracy theory.

    “We have no idea how many Republican or Democratic candidates in any state across the country paid to have the system rigged to work for them,” she said during the news conference. (The available evidence suggests that the answer is zero, particularly since her theory of how voting machines work is itself nonsensical.)
    …….
    Powell was more specific during an appearance on Newsmax. She claimed she had evidence that would “blow up” the results in Georgia, where Biden defeated Trump by a narrow margin. She also suggested that Gov. Brian Kemp (R) — a longtime Trump ally — would be implicated by her imaginary findings.
    …..
    “Sidney Powell accusing Governor Brian Kemp of a crime on television yet being unwilling to go on TV and defend and lay out the evidence that she supposedly has, this is outrageous conduct,” Christie said. He described the legal team broadly as a “national embarrassment.”
    ……
    ……[A]ll of her commentary was acceptable to Trump and to the Republican Party until, suddenly, it wasn’t.

    Giuliani remains employed.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  330. @330, Somewhere between 2 and 3. Which should be reduced for sure. But isn’t grounds to raise additional barriers to voting.

    Trump set up a panel to find the millions of illegal votes in the 2016 election. They found almost none.

    Trump has alleged MASSIVE FRAUD in the 2020 election in social media. In court, where there are consequences to lying, his lawyers have been clear they’re not alleging fraud. In NO CASE has the trump campaign brought evidence to court of fraud that was compelling to a judge.

    Your Original article has some errors btw It closes with this Last year, Texas officials found 95,000 noncitizens illegally registered to vote. The state compared drivers licenses, which contain immigration status, to voter rolls.

    As is typical for these types of accusations the reality is mush less alarming Someone did not do their due diligence”: How an attempt to review Texas’ voter rolls turned into a debacle

    So again, where’s your evidence of wide spread voter fraud? Because so far it hasn’t been presented. Or are you waiting for Sidney Powell to prove the Governor Kemp is in on the plot to help Biden win GA through fraud?

    Time123 (b0628d)

  331. Sammy 264,

    Sidney Powell is still listed as one of Flynn’s attorneys at courtlistener.

    DRJ (aede82)

  332. I’m wasting my time. If you want to talk about the problem of voter fraud start by providing evidence of it happening.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  333. How many legit citizen voters are you willing to disenfranchise to achieve zero illegal votes? You don’t seem to care, as long as you get the result you want.
    Davethulhu (6e0d47) — 11/23/2020 @ 9:46 am

    Davethulhu, I imagine that the answer would be zero. Also every illegal vote eliminated restores a legit voter’s choice. So zero illegal votes means full restoration of legit votes that those illegal votes cancelled. It is not complicated.

    felipe (023cc9)

  334. Time123 (b0628d) — 11/23/2020 @ 9:58 am

    I understand your frustration, but do not be discouraged. There are more silent readers here that may be swayed by your efforts than you can know. You also prevent this site from being an echo chamber. You should find encouragement in this. Persevere in good faith.

    felipe (023cc9)

  335. @337: Since Democrats fight actual voter audits, what are left are less than perfect ways to verify illegal voters, such as comparing against drivers license info which does not get updated when a non-citizen becomes naturalized. Since there is obviously very minimal illegal voting going on, it makes complete sense to stymie reliable methods to back that up.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  336. felipe (023cc9) — 11/23/2020 @ 10:04 am

    HAH! I quoted myself instead of Davethulhu! Thank goodness the readers here are too sharp to be thrown by my mistakes.

    felipe (023cc9)

  337. “Davethulhu, I imagine that the answer would be zero. Also every illegal vote eliminated restores a legit voter’s choice. So zero illegal votes means full restoration of legit votes that those illegal votes cancelled. It is not complicated.”

    Zero illegal votes will result in otherwise legit voters losing their votes. It’s an impossible standard.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  338. What is really sad is that election integrity has been a major GOP issue for decades, and like immigration, it’s going to become a third rail due to selfishness in the moment.

    Nothing says “election integrity” like the guy who said beforehand that if he lost the election it must be fraudulent and made plain that his acceptance of the results was conditioned upon whether the results favored him.

    All the R’s who weren’t bothered by such declarations from a sitting president and who have subsequently acted in the same spirit are equally (not) credible as defenders of election integrity.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  339. Zero illegal votes will result in otherwise legit voters losing their votes. It’s an impossible standard.
    Davethulhu (6e0d47) — 11/23/2020 @ 10:12 am

    You know this how? Let’s get to zero illegal votes first and then see how many legit voters lose their votes. I have no doubt that efforts will be made to make getting there an impossibility. That’d prolly what you really mean, but I don’t know. I do not read minds.

    felipe (023cc9)

  340. @342, so no evidence just an excuse. A silly excuse at that because Texas was clearly able to refine the list from the initially exaggerated and incorrect claim.

    Also, that claim, while wrong, is just that non-citizens were registered to vote. Not that they actually did.

    Finally, I have to point out that 2 of the states Trump is suing have Republican governors and secretary of states.

    Face, wide spread voter fraud had nothing to do with this election and there’s no evidence of it impacting a modern presidential election.

    Time123 (3bea3e)

  341. You know this how? Let’s get to zero illegal votes first and then see how many legit voters lose their votes.

    And we’ll know when we’ve reached “zero illegal votes” how?

    Anwyay, why not get to zero legit voters lose their votes first and then see how many illegal votes there are?

    Dave (1bb933)

  342. @346 – Before the election, Trumpers were scolding non-Trumpers for being willing to “sell out” the country to leftists just because they harbor a petty personal dislike of Donald Trump. Now we see Trumpers willing to hand over the Senate to Dems as a way of expressing their total devotion to Trump. And some Trumpers want to destroy the GOP as revenge if it doesn’t force a second Trump term.

    OT: in typing “Trump” now, I’m always thinking of the Good Trump who just scored another big win: Judd Trump won the Northern Ireland Open snooker tournament and is the top-ranked player in the world today. In this final he was up against Ronnie O’Sullivan, who at nearly 45 is in the winding-down phase of his career and says he’s just happy that he’s still playing the game. Earlier this year he became the oldest player ever to win the World Championship. Judd is his opposite in personality, with a low-key seriousness, not a lot of charisma but nothing that’s annoying either. Altogether a worthy winner.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  343. Zero illegal votes will result in otherwise legit voters losing their votes. It’s an impossible standard.
    Davethulhu (6e0d47) — 11/23/2020 @ 10:12 am

    You know this how? Let’s get to zero illegal votes first and then see how many legit voters lose their votes. I have no doubt that efforts will be made to make getting there an impossibility. That’d prolly what you really mean, but I don’t know. I do not read minds.

    felipe (023cc9) — 11/23/2020 @ 10:35 am

    So what does that look like? Should we eliminate mail in votes entirely? Require that voter registration come with detailed biometric data? I think the goal is admirable but what do you actually want to do in order to fix a problem that apparently isn’t very large?

    Time123 (653992)

  344. @341, thanks Felipe, as always I appreciate your kind words.

    Time123 (653992)

  345. Oh brother. Dave I know you think you are being clever, but you are simply being silly.

    We’ll know when we have gotten to zero illegal votes when there is adequate transparency in the process. For one, I think we have outgrown the need for a secret vote. People are right to put their trust in banks to keep their money safe. Sure, there was a time when banks fell, and people kept their money under their mattresses. We may be reaching a similar situation with respect to voting. The banking system changed, for the better, to the point people returned. Perhaps we need the same voting failure and loss of trust in order to find the collective will to reform voting for the better.

    Do banks get robbed today? of course, but no one doubts that their money is safe and that the law will pursue the robbers. Do some people lose access to their accounts because of security? Yes! But trust in the system is still maintained until services are restored. The latest twist is identity theft. The first step to maintaining trust was to acknowledge it occurred and addressed it. Voter fraud denial only erodes trust in the system.

    I fully expect that any temporarily disenfranchised voters will react in the same way. They will complain, as is their right, but their trust in the system will remain high.

    If banking-like security was adopted for voting, then even illegal residents could be assured of just treatment of their concerns, just as the safety of their money is assured when they open an account.

    felipe (023cc9)

  346. Time123 (653992) — 11/23/2020 @ 11:07 am

    Very good questions that I think I answered in this comment: felipe (023cc9) — 11/23/2020 @ 11:09 am

    felipe (023cc9)

  347. GOP, the part of election integrity:

    Republicans pressured Wayne County not to certify the vote, but the # of precincts with slightly mismatched data is lower than it was in 2016, when Mr. Trump won the state by a smaller margin and the result was certified unanimously.

    Link

    Radegunda (20775b)

  348. We’ll know when we have gotten to zero illegal votes when there is adequate transparency in the process.

    I see.

    So how intrusive a government inquiry will I need to submit to before voting, such that we can be confident there is less than a 0.0000005% chance that I might be ineligible?

    That’s what “zero illegal votes” means.

    And how will we know that the anti-fraud measures are really that good?

    Dave (1bb933)

  349. If banking-like security was adopted for voting

    Is it your contention that there are zero fraudulent bank accounts in the United States?

    Dave (1bb933)

  350. Good questions, dave. With gov. who can say for sure? But I think it should be no more intrusive than opening a bank account. Something illegals can, and do, do (heh, I said do-do). The beauty of tying voting to banks, secret voting concerns to be handled in the same way personal financial secrecy is maintained (if there is such a thing), would be that most of the infrastructure and methods are already available.

    We bank remotely, wether from home or by phone, with great security. Imagine whenever a city or state decides to allow illegals to vote on local matters, which would be a just thing to do on matters that greatly affect them, Those issues can be automatically included on their virtual ballot when they login to their accounts. Now the account they log onto may not be their money account, but may be their voting account. No more paper ballots to print, mail, or provide. No more delays because of printing or distribution logistics. What do you say? No more need for early or absent voting. For those who refuse to adopt this plan we can phase out the current system over, say, twenty years.

    felipe (023cc9)

  351. Dave (1bb933) — 11/23/2020 @ 11:21 am

    Hah! It’s always going to be something with you, isn’t it, Dave? Yeah, you better close all your bank accounts, good thinking!

    felipe (023cc9)

  352. Hah! It’s always going to be something with you, isn’t it, Dave? Yeah, you better close all your bank accounts, good thinking!

    You wrote “zero illegal votes”.

    If you meant something different, you should have written something different.

    Dave (1bb933)

  353. Is it your contention that there are zero fraudulent bank accounts in the United States?

    There is every attempt to purge those. Compare that to a voting roll that still has me on it after I notified them of leaving the state (My 2018 registration here asked me for the information to accomplish that).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  354. I kind of think that all that happens when you notify some jurisdictions of moving is that you go on the “available to use” list.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  355. @306. ROFLMAO

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  356. I will point out that it is possible to object to insecure voting methods (some clerk comparing signatures? Really?) without buying into Trump’s fever dreams.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  357. This flashback on refusing to concede is too funny.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  358. Yeah, and you wrote:

    zero fraudulent bank accounts

    It just occurred to me that you really don’t understand what I mean by “illegal votes.” I’ll spell it out to you; votes by illegal aliens. This is a subset of fraudulent votes. We will have fraud with us, always. But pernicious fraud is dealt with strongly, just ask any busted counterfeiter. But shopping continues…

    The first step to successfully fighting fraud is to admit it occurs and address it. We are in deep denial about voting fraud. Just as the both perpetrators and victims of scams resist admitting a scam, to the bitter end; why wouldn’t those who perpetrate/deny voter fraud, resist to the bitter end as well?

    felipe (023cc9)

  359. The Empire Strikes Back:

    WSJ reports Ol’Joe Biden picks Janet Yellen for Treasury Secretary.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  360. Radegunda (20775b) — 11/23/2020 @ 11:57 am

    HaH! Also, my favorite part of the video you linked was the big cat scratching and stretchingon that log. Dana, I thought that was dead prey being carried back from a hunt.

    felipe (023cc9)

  361. Tell me, Montagu, in the absence of hard evidence, how many illegal votes do you think we’re dealing with?

    I’m confident the number is more than zero, beer. And since you made the allegation, it’s on you to move beyond spreadsheets and prove how many illegal votes there were. Get to work.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  362. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/23/2020 @ 11:53 am

    Regular perusal and purges of voter rolls, with public posting of names to be purged (to give people time to object and correct) would be one step towards restoring trust, imo.

    felipe (023cc9)

  363. Paul Montagu (cbbfc4) — 11/23/2020 @ 12:18 pm

    Your honest answer speaks well of you, but the work of proving an accurate number should lie with the authorities who have the tightly controlled information. Something tells me that they will not undertake that work.

    felipe (023cc9)

  364. Giuliani talking on WABC 770 AM.

    He talks about Smartmatic which he says is a company founded by two Venezuelans for the express purpose of having Hugo Chavez cheat.

    Even this idea is probably a little bit wrong as Smartmatic had a dispute with the Madero government.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/americas/venezuela-election-turnout.html

    “We know, without any doubt, that the turnout of the recent election for a National Constituent Assembly was manipulated,” the company, Smartmatic, said in a statement. ..

    On Wednesday, Smartmatic said that although Venezuela’s election process includes “a series of auditing systems” that are “impossible to circumvent,” no election monitors from the opposition were present to watch for evidence as it came in. Opposition parties had boycotted the vote, declining to participate in the election or review the returns on Sunday.

    The absence of auditors, the company said, allowed for a manipulation of the turnout numbers.

    It has no association with Dominion (except Dominion bought a company they sold three years after they sold it, and they once worked together in the Phillippines in 2009); Dominion has no association with important Democrats, although various claims have been made that it does; ballots weren’t taken to Germany to be counted; and if their software spoofed or altered votes that would be immediately detectable because every precinct has a result, and the paper ballots, (there are two separate voting machines for each vote: one to mark the ballot and spit it out with the names of persons voted for also printed, and the other to scan them and record the total on a card; and every vote, although anonymized, has a name and signature attached to it and you can’t stuff the ballot box, or remove votes, without a discrepancy being evident; and there’s been a hand recount in Georgia.

    And if the change away from Trump was caused by fraud, it would have happened there because there you had a change.

    Sammy Finkelman (8a31dc)

  365. For one, I think we have outgrown the need for a secret vote.

    I don’t believe we’ve outgrown that need, felipe, now more than ever. Americans should be free to vote in confidence, without the potential threat of harassment or intimidation for picking the “wrong” candidate or issue. It would open the door to tyranny.
    It wasn’t that long ago in California when donors in support of Prop 8 had their names published and then faced personal and career repercussions from extremists.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  366. felipe (023cc9) — 11/23/2020 @ 11:09 am

    The latest twist is identity theft. The first step to maintaining trust was to acknowledge it occurred and addressed it. Voter fraud denial only erodes trust in the system.

    I know of a 90 year old man whose bank refused to change his address because they said his signature didn’t match, so they keep on sending mail to the old address.

    Sammy Finkelman (8a31dc)

  367. 301. Time123 (653992) — 11/23/2020 @ 8:34 am

    One of his crazier lawyers, Sidney Powell, had theory the the software was designed to allow a 3rd party to pick the winner. Apparently she’s been let go. But I haven’t seen any formal rejection of her theory from the Trump campaign, and it’s not very different from what Rudy has been saying.

    according to Rush Limbaugh, she’s still working at it, with Lin Wood.

    He said he classified his email about he into categories,

    Some people say she is a kook, and some say she is clever, and some say what she said was too good to be true.

    https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/11/23/the-trump-legal-team-better-deliver-the-bombshell-evidence-fast

    RUSH: I don’t know any more than you do about the Sidney Powell circumstance. I know a lot of people have been curious to know whether there is something beyond that which has been publicly reported. If there is, I’m unaware of it. I’ve made inquiries. I have not come up with anything more than what you know. We’ll deal with it as it unfolds and manifests itself.

    There’s a bunch of different theories going around that she really is not going to stop working, she’s just disassembling herself from the Trump team. I mean, it’s a tough thing to deny that she was ever a part of it because they introduced her as part of it. I mean, she was at that press conference last week. The problem with that press conference last week, folks, it goes way beyond Sidney Powell.

    I mean, if you’re gonna announce — and Mr. Snerdley, you tell me if you agree with me. I may be a little bit wrong on this, I don’t know. (interruption) Why are you smiling? (interruption) Why? Because you think whenever I allude to the possibility of my being wrong, it’s never the case that I’m wrong. Is that what you mean?

    You call a gigantic press conference like that, one that lasts an hour, and you announce massive bombshells, then you better have some bombshells. There better be something at that press conference other than what we got, such as a hacker who can tell us, yep, everything these guys have said is true. I’ve looked into it. I’ve run the software, I’ve hacked this, I’ve hacked that. Even put him behind a screen, if you want to protect his identity.

    I talked to so many people who were blown away by it, by the very nature of the press conference. They promised blockbuster stuff, and then nothing happened. And that’s just not good. I mean, if you’re gonna promise blockbuster stuff like that, then there has — now, I understand — look, I’m the one that’s been telling everybody, this stuff doesn’t happen at warp speed, light speed the way cases are made for presentation in court, but if you’re gonna do a press conference like that with the promise of blockbusters, then there has to be something more than what that press conference delivered.

    Now Sidney Powell is supposedly out, jumped the shark, got out over the skis, but apparently she’s still gonna be working along with Lin Wood trying to make the case that she says is there to be made all along. Time, of course, is of the essence now, as it is speedily vanishing. They’re gonna have to act fast….

    ….You know, there’s all kinds of speculation about what’s going on with Sidney Powell. Was she ever really a member of the team? It appears that she was. Did they really ask her to leave, or is she…?

    Some of the Drive-By Media think that it’s impossible to be too conspiratorial for Trump and Giuliani. So the excuse being given that she’s gone because even she’s too wacko for them is being refuted of the because there’s nothing too wacko for Trump, that Trump will believe anything, and Giuliani will believe anything. So the left is going nuts trying to figure it out, folks.

    The left is… They’re coming up with some of the most convoluted theories. I might share some of them with you. They’re kind of funny. One of them involved this fictional, dragon-like figure, the Kraken or the Kraken. I don’t know how you pronounce it. I’m not big into that stuff. (laughs) But they’re going nuts trying to figure out what it means, and is she still secretly working on making all of this happen while Trump tries to salvage some credibility by making it look like there is at least one kook that he will reject? (laughs) Ahhh, my friends.

    Sammy Finkelman (8a31dc)

  368. Your honest answer speaks well of you, but the work of proving an accurate number should lie with the authorities who have the tightly controlled information.

    I completely agree, felipe. Voter rolls should be sacrosanct, 100% accurate and verified. If it takes more audits to make it so, then so be it.
    If I’m sounding a littler terse, it’s because lots of accusations have been made of “rigging” and fraudulent ballots yet there is so little actual evidence of it, including evidence about non-citizens who voted. If folks are so convinced, then they need to take the next step and step it up: Show the evidence., make the case and confirm their beliefs.
    This all goes back to Trump. He made the Big Accusation that he really won, that there’s an interstate fraud and rigging scheme that caused Biden to win, and now I’ve been seeing all his loyalists spreading out and trying to backfill his bullsh*t. Trump’s 2-34 record in court speaks clearly to Trump’s Big Lie, and his devoted enablers aren’t helping. There’s no there there.
    The next time someone says the evidence will show up in two weeks (like Trump’s multiple statements that his superior replacement to Obamacare is two weeks away), I’m swear I oughtta…I’m gonna…oh, hell I don’t know.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  369. Breaking: (actually earlier) Secretary of HHS says the Regeneron treatment for Covid will be distributed across the county)

    (thhat;s the cure Trump took)

    Sammy Finkelman (8a31dc)

  370. “Trump’s 2-34 record in court speaks clearly to Trump’s Big Lie, and his devoted enablers aren’t helping. There’s no there there.”

    It’s actually 1-35 now. Pennsylvania Supreme Court reversed his recent win.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  371. It’s actually 1-35 now.

    Since when is the purpose of lawfare to post a winning record?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  372. Paul Montagu (cbbfc4) — 11/23/2020 @ 12:38 pm

    You make a very persuasive argument, Paul. Good comment.

    felipe (023cc9)

  373. Sammy Finkelman (8a31dc) — 11/23/2020 @ 12:44 pm

    Yikes, I had better work on my penmanship! My hands tremble sometimes. You know we’re keeping an eye on it.

    felipe (023cc9)

  374. Since when is the purpose of lawfare to post a winning record?

    “Show me a good loser, and I’ll show you a loser.”
    – Vince Lombardi

    Dave (1bb933)

  375. “Some of the Drive-By Media think that it’s impossible to be too conspiratorial for Trump and Giuliani. So the excuse being given that she’s gone because even she’s too wacko for them is being refuted of the because there’s nothing too wacko for Trump, that Trump will believe anything, and Giuliani will believe anything. So the left is going nuts trying to figure it out, folks.

    The left is… They’re coming up with some of the most convoluted theories. I might share some of them with you. They’re kind of funny. One of them involved this fictional, dragon-like figure, the Kraken or the Kraken. I don’t know how you pronounce it. I’m not big into that stuff. (laughs) But they’re going nuts trying to figure out what it means, and is she still secretly working on making all of this happen while Trump tries to salvage some credibility by making it look like there is at least one kook that he will reject? (laughs) Ahhh, my friends.”

    This is pure projection.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  376. “Since when is the purpose of lawfare to post a winning record?”

    When you say “lawfare”, you’re talking about Trump’s efforts to reverse the election, right?

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  377. When you say “lawfare”, you’re talking about Trump’s efforts to reverse the election, right?

    Call it anything you like. Biden Venezuela Collusion, whatever….

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  378. Regarding Powell under the bus, the “too nutty for Trump” argument doesn’t make sense to me because Trump has waded into all kinds and flavors of nutty.
    I think the real reason is that McConnell or Tucker Carlson or someone persuaded him that he won’t have a chance to run in 2024 if he sabotages the GA Senate races by allowing Powell to stay on, and Gov. Kemp has been a loyal Trump sycophant, and his only real departure from the president was certifying the GA election. Loeffler has been just as big of a Trump suck-up.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

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