Patterico's Pontifications

10/21/2020

Obama Hits the Road On Behalf of Slow Joe

Filed under: General — JVW @ 3:20 pm



[guest post by JVW]

Dear Leader Emeritus is stumpin’ for Joe in Philly, with Pennsylvania being an important swing state. You know he’s serious this time, because he’s using his black accent again.

But the best part is a line that he may have poorly ad-libbed, or perhaps simply butchered:

[Joe is] living by the words that his parents taught him: ‘No one’s better than you, Joe, but you’re better than nobody.’

Here’s a crappy video version, just so you don’t think I’m making this up:

– JVW

129 Responses to “Obama Hits the Road On Behalf of Slow Joe”

  1. Or maybe he’s just clownin’ on his old VP.

    JVW (13125e)

  2. Trump is Biden’s best surrogate.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  3. Obama used the exact same words in his DNC speech.

    Biden related the anecdote of his mother saying that in 2015.

    Dave (1bb933)

  4. OMG OBAMA PLAGIARIZED HIS OWN SPEECH

    Dave (1bb933)

  5. As long as it was not the First Lady’s, Mr. Dave. Although, honestly, doesn’t that sound like something translated from English to Yugoslavian* and back to English?

    *I know!

    nk (1d9030)

  6. Don’t think Obama knows the difference between a ‘scrappy kid from Scranton’ and scrapple.

    They do in Philly.

    The ‘Scranton kid’ left Scranton, Pennsylvania 67 years ago.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  7. I watched this speech, thought it was well delivered. It was less of a pro-Biden speech and more of an anti-Trump speech. Blistering and mocking, Obama deliberately said things to get under Trump’s skin. In that, I think he succeeded.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  8. The Democrats seem to have their own version of QAnon

    President Barack Obama burned rubber racing off the high road in Philadelphia on Wednesday during his return to the trail — ridiculing President Trump for complaining about campaigning in Pennsylvania, for contracting the coronavirus, and for hiding business dealings with China.

    “We know that he continues to do business with China because he has a secret Chinese bank account. How is that possible?” Mr. Obama asked a crowd of supporters invited to hear him speak in the parking lot of South Philadelphia Sports Complex.

    Meanwhile, Biden claims that Trump’s border policy is so bad that “This administration ripped babies from their mothers’ arms!” I’m pretty sure that the administration would rather have deported the lot, but they are forced to allow the children to stay, as unsuccessful anchors.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  9. I watched this speech, thought it was well delivered.

    Yes, the fake accent really helped with the delivery. Obama is definitely ‘jess folks.

    Hoi Polloi (92d467)

  10. Obama’s being fairly shameless.

    But it’s smart. Trump HATES Obama. Those insults will drive Trump nuts. Add in how annoying it must be to Trump that Rudy’s scandal reminds all of us of Epstein and Trump. Add in the pressure of the losing election, the fears about whether he needs to flee, if his family needs to flee.

    Will Trump handle all that pressure gracefully? I shall hold my breath and await the answer.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  11. Unlike QAnon moonbattery, Trump’s secret Chinese bank account is actually a thing that exists, Kevin.

    Dave (1bb933)

  12. He was always shameless, but youre fine with that. He was almost entirely unchallenged except for the tea, that he enlisted the entire govt machinery to crush

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  13. @8 Is the conspiracy that he has a Chinese bank account, or that it was secret?

    Nic (896fdf)

  14. He was always shameless, but youre fine with that.

    No, just because I criticize Trump doesn’t mean I am OK with Obama being shameless, which I criticized literally just now.

    I imagine I was one of the most outspoken Obama critics here, though a lot of my complaints seem a little stupid today (like on spending or being pals with Bill Ayers, an Eagle Scout compared to Putin).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  15. @8 Is the conspiracy that he has a Chinese bank account, or that it was secret?

    Nic (896fdf) — 10/21/2020 @ 5:26 pm

    I’m not sure why it’s remarkable that Trump has a bank account over there. That’s most of the world and he runs an international business. He probably had to pay for those MAGA hat sweatshops or something.

    What’s remarkable to me is that he paid the Chinese government hundreds of times more taxes than he paid his own government, and actually charged Americans interest on his huge BS tax refund. The way that guy lives, and he’s paying nothing compared to the workers of this country? Why did the GOP make him their poster child? It’s going to lead to a lot of changes in our society.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  16. “Can you imagine if I had a secret Chinese bank account?” said the former president, wearing a blue shirt with the sleeves rolled up, his voice straining. “Can you imagine if I had a secret Chinese bank account when I was running for re-election?”

    He added, “They would’ve called me Beijing Barry.”

    It is “not a great idea to have a president who owes a bunch of money to people overseas,” Mr. Obama said, adding that he had probably paid more in income taxes working a high school job at an ice-cream parlor than what Mr. Trump paid during each of his first two years as president — $750.

    This material is so much better than what we’ve had to put up with lately.

    Obama didn’t cover himself in glory as president, but he still sets the standard for retail politics.

    Dave (1bb933)

  17. So much Twitter bait in just one day:
    — The Utah governor’s race ad.
    — Obama.
    — Badgering Giuliani.
    Will the Diet Coke hold out?

    nk (1d9030)

  18. Did Obama learn that fake Black accent from Hillary?

    Gary (2a3a16)

  19. OT: Mullahs For Biden

    The U.S. government on Wednesday publicly accused Russia and Iran of separately interfering in the 2020 election, using information they each obtained on American voters.

    Tehran is specifically accused of threatening Democratic voters in four states by sending emails that claimed to be from the Proud Boys, the Trump-supporting far-right group.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  20. Lol***

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  21. Summary of today’s state polls (all Likely Voters, with fivethirtyeight pollster rating in parents)

    FoxNews (A-)
    PA: Biden +5
    WI: Biden +5
    OH: Trump +2
    MI: Biden +12

    Quinnipiac (B+)
    PA: Biden +8
    TX: Even

    Ipsos (B-)
    AZ: Biden +4
    FL: Biden +3

    CNN (B/C)
    FL: Biden +4
    PA: Biden +10

    Suffolk U (A)
    PA: Biden +6

    Monmouth U (A)
    IA: Biden +4

    Rasmussen (C+)
    AZ: Biden +2

    Siena College (A+)
    IA: Biden +3

    Emerson College (A-)
    IA: Even

    No wonder Trump is in a foul mood…

    Dave (1bb933)

  22. Nino
    @baldingschemer

    If iran is working with lincoln project, not sure whose reputation suffers more
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  23. *in parens

    Swine spell-checker…

    Dave (1bb933)

  24. What’s remarkable to me is that he paid the Chinese government hundreds of times more taxes than he paid his own government

    What is remarkable to me is that most Americans don’t know how the Chinese operate – they do this to every US company that wants to business in China. Not to mention forcing these foreign companies to make it much easier for China to steal their trade secrets…all for a foothold in a billion+ person marketplace.

    Hoi Polloi (92d467)

  25. The U.S. government on Wednesday publicly accused Russia and Iran of separately interfering in the 2020 election, using information they each obtained on American voters.

    Tehran is specifically accused of threatening Democratic voters in four states by sending emails that claimed to be from the Proud Boys, the Trump-supporting far-right group.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/21/2020 @ 5:58 pm

    I totally believe this. Trump fans will think this somehow helps them, but this is actually muddying the waters around Trump’s collusion. The bad guys want us at eachother’s throats by making it seem like respecting our democracy is foolish.

    What is remarkable to me is that most Americans don’t know how the Chinese operate

    That’s no defense of Trump’s tax avoidance schemes or his passion to keep this information away from the voters so we could discuss it. If you think operating in China is bad, I fully agree.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  26. What is remarkable to me is that most Americans don’t know how the Chinese operate – they do this to every US company that wants to business in China. Not to mention forcing these foreign companies to make it much easier for China to steal their trade secrets…all for a foothold in a billion+ person marketplace.

    Words fail.

    nk (1d9030)

  27. if the dirty chinesers try to steal ivankas proprietary no stick stripper pole design it means war

    youve got to draw the line somewhere

    Dave (1bb933)

  28. He didnt grovel enough like bloomberg who does pr for princelings

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  29. What’s remarkable to me is that he paid the Chinese government hundreds of times more taxes than he paid his own government, and actually charged Americans interest on his huge BS tax refund.

    This is unfair, and you probably know it. The Chinese laws about taxes are presumably regarding Chinese profits, which the US either doesn’t tax or allows credits for.

    His tax refund was huge, but it was of taxes paid previously, and the law allows such things and the IRS is obligated to pay interest on such things. I’ve gotten interest on a restated return. Now, the refund may have been bogus — but neither of us has anything other than guessing (or perhaps distrust) to allow us to decide that.

    This is the kind of place where civility breaks down. Where we make assumptions about things that many people do, but because they are done by the hated ____, we ascribe the worst interpretation possible.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  30. Suppose Huawei made $100M in the US through sale of handsets. Why would their US taxes have a thing to do with the taxes they owe in China for their Chinese operations?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  31. @15 Yes, that’s what I took out of that story as well.

    @24 No one is forcing American Companies to do business in China.

    Nic (896fdf)

  32. His tax refund was huge, but it was of taxes paid previously

    Or do people think that the IRS gives refunds to corporations that never paid anything in?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. That’s no defense of Trump’s tax avoidance schemes or his passion to keep this information away from the voters so we could discuss it. If you think operating in China is bad, I fully agree.
    Dustin (4237e0) — 10/21/2020 @ 6:13 pm

    I don’t know if Trump’s bank account in China is a tax avoidance scheme (which in of itself is not a crime), but more likely the cost of doing business in China.

    Hoi Polloi (92d467)

  34. He should be paying zero taxes in China, because he should be doing no business in China.

    nk (1d9030)

  35. I like presidents who don’t have secret Chinese bank accounts.

    Dave (1bb933)

  36. @24 No one is forcing American Companies to do business in China.
    Nic (896fdf) — 10/21/2020 @ 6:43 pm

    You are correct. It’s the price they are paying to get that market share.

    It would be nice if both parties could sit down at the table and discuss how to deal with the growing threat of China. But that would mean less cheap Chinese goods, having to grow a backbone, and relegate other foreign policy issues that are not really important but make good political news back home (Russia! NATO! Syria!) to the back burner for a while.

    Hoi Polloi (92d467)

  37. Anyways obamas gig was decidely spinal tap.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  38. No one is forcing American Companies to do business in China.

    So, we should start treating Toyota like crap, and it’s OK because no one is forcing them to sell cars here?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  39. It’s all lies and hypocrisy, with the corrupt criminal traitor Trump-Kushner crime family. “China! China! China! Wuhan Flu! China virus!”, and in the meantime they’re angling for hotels, making shoes with Uighur slave labor, and selling investment green cards.

    nk (1d9030)

  40. The cost of having a chinese spy as your driver and office manager ashead of the intel committee priceless.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  41. We’ll see. Ex-Presidents collect their bribes after they have left office. We’ll know the extent of his treason by who lets him built hotels and who pays multi-million dollar speaking fees.

    nk (1d9030)

  42. I like presidents who don’t have secret Chinese bank accounts.

    Why do people use such STUPID arguments against a man that has so many obvious flaws. It’s like going after David Duke for his spelling. Many businesses and businessmen have foreign bank accounts for fairly common reasons. There’s nothing sinister about it; you need to to that to do business there.

    Obama making a deal about the bank account that was “secret” (read: mundane and unremarkable) is the kind of conspiracy crap that people like QAnon build castles upon.

    I have a “secret” credit card account. At least secret from you. That doesn’t make it sinister.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  43. Like bertelsmann paying the obamas 60 million for their part of the iran deal.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  44. Ex-Presidents collect their bribes after they have left office.

    Hillary was working on it aforehand.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. @39: See. This is what you should be concerned about, not some foreign funds transaction account that means nothing in itself.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. Again, you cannot turn every mundane fact into a federal crime, and then turn around and decry the lack of civility.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. He should be paying zero taxes in China, because he should be doing no business in China.

    nk (1d9030) — 10/21/2020 @ 6:45 pm

    That’s what I meant.

    Kevin, I agree with you that it’s normal, lawful behavior, but Obama’s point is to needle Trump on his anti-china hysterical xenophobia BS. The fact Trump says all that nonsense but is no better than those he bashes is a great way to pick on him. If OBama had the account, Trump would call him Beijing Barry, and maybe it is a problem for a president to have secretive accounts overseas (I think Trump should have divested and never returned to that kind of stuff).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  48. Why do people use such STUPID arguments against a man that has so many obvious flaws.

    If you believe there are obvious flaws of Trump’s that I’ve somehow overlooked, or neglected to criticize adequately for these past 45 months, then I apologize sincerely and promise to do better.

    Dave (1bb933)

  49. P.S. It was a joke.

    Dave (1bb933)

  50. @38 I have zero idea how you got that out of what I said.

    @42 I’m pretty sure that was a joke?

    Nic (896fdf)

  51. Democrats trade jeffery toobin for rudi giuliani just before trade dead line. Seems like a fair trade to me.

    asset (ca5f36)

  52. I saw Obama on cable new until Ratcliffe cut in (and you have to wonder about Ratcliffe’s timing, along with his incredulous statement that intimidating voters into voting for Trump hurts Trump), and his speech was effective. I expect Obama will do a few more of those. It’s unusual for a former president to be so critical of a current president, but Trump has broken all the norms of his office already.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  53. I went back and finished my response to frosty from several days ago. Just wanted him to know I had.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  54. Its called a false flag like what danchenko handed to steele laundering dezinforma

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  55. Meanwhile….

    “ As I see it, the key question here is whether the City’s actions were closely enough connected to the CHOP activists’ violations of the owners’ property rights to be considered as assistance “sufficiently direct and substantial” enough to qualify as a taking.

    Given the scale of the city’s alleged assistance to the private occupiers, I tentatively think the answer is yes. The city authorities apparently provided extensive aid to the CHOP activists both by giving the material assistance, and by allowing them to use city property. And it was foreseeable they would use these resources to violate local landowners’ property rights.

    However, I hasten to add that this is a fairly murky area of takings jurisprudence, and I’m not aware of another case with closely analogous facts. It isn’t easy to figure out where to draw the line between essentially private violations of property rights, and those that are sufficiently facilitated by the government to qualify as takings. As this case makes its way through the legal system, it could potentially set an important precedent on that issue.

    Rethinking the Seattle “CHOP” Takings Case
    Property owners are suing the city for helping far-left activists seize control of their property during the period when it allowed the latter to rule an “autonomous zone” covering 16 blocks of in the area.

    https://reason.com/2020/10/21/rethinking-the-seattle-chop-takings-case/
    _

    They’re definitely gonna need precedent for the near future.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  56. Where is our resident apologist for the wannabe duke of seattle.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  57. Obama used the exact same words in his DNC speech.

    I didn’t know that. If I were a Biden advisor you can damn well believe I would have blue penciled any reference to Joe’s mediocrity. And yes, I know that’s not what was Mom Biden meant by the “you’re better than nobody” line, but that is certainly a very easy interpretation of it, and given Joe’s obvious intellectual limitations the line cries out for being rephrased in a more flattering manner. If nothing else, reverse the order in which the lines come. Mom first tells him that he is no better than anyone, but then reminds him of the corollary that no one is better than he.

    JVW (13125e)

  58. My theory that Hunter Biden’s iCloud account hack may turn out to be the truth. TIME has two sources who were approached by a party that was selling Hunter Biden's personal information. The juicy bits.

    Explicit photos and emails purportedly belonging to Hunter Biden were circulating in Ukraine last year at the same time that Rudy Giuliani was searching for dirt there on former Vice President Joe Biden, two people approached about the material during that period tell TIME.

    The emails’ alleged availability, which has not been previously reported, comes to light in the wake of Giuliani’s recent claims that he obtained private photos and emails of Hunter Biden from a broken laptop abandoned in Delaware. Giuliani, who is President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer, has passed this material to right-wing news outlets, which began publishing it last week. Giuliani did not respond to requests for comment on the origins of the material he obtained.

    Over the past year, the practice of selling or leaking private communications has become so common in Ukraine that the government has announced plans to pass a law against it. Igor Novikov, a former adviser to Ukraine’s President who now researches disinformation, referred to the practice as Ukraine’s “national sport” in a recent interview with the Washington Post.

    The two people who said they were approached with Hunter Biden’s alleged emails last year did not know whether any of them were real and they declined to identify who was behind the offers, the first of which came in late May 2019 and the second in mid-September 2019. The two people said they could not confirm whether any of the material presented to them was the same as that which has been recently published in the U.S.

    And this…

    Hunter Biden has been unable to figure out where the material could have originated, says a person familiar with the situation.

    If Hunter didn't know how this information got out, it tells me that his iCloud account could well have been hacked, probably because he had an easy-to-figure-out password. It's also likely that, since Burisma was hacked by Russians, then Hunter Biden fell prey to the same bad actors.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  59. Just read on yahoo news that mouth wash kills covid-19 virus. Gargling mouth wash penetrates the virus like lysol but safer to accidentally swallow.

    asset (ca5f36)

  60. That’s interesting, Asset. I didn’t think it was strong enough.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  61. @52 I have to agree with you, Paul. It is highly unusual for a former president to criticize his successor. I haven’t seen any former president do that in my lifetime. But you’re right, Trump has broken all the norms. So why shouldn’t Obama?

    I didn’t support or vote for him, but turn about is fair play. Trump trashed Obama. In fact, his entire campaign in 2016 was against Obama, not against Clinton. She was a terrible candidate than ran a bad campaign, which is why she lost the electoral college. But Trump was really running against Obama.

    Oh, how he hated him, the first Black president. There are some racist overtones to that. So now Obama is turning the tables. He’s attacking Trump more than he is supporting Biden.

    Watching the speech, I have to say Obama was impressive. He is a talented speaker and the best spokesman for the Democrats. I read that he wrote the speech himself. It was deliberately designed to get under Trump’s skin, provoke an irrational response.

    I think it worked. But we’ll have to wait and see how Trump reacts in the debate on Thursday, or in the coming weeks on Twitter.

    Trump is desperate, becoming increasingly unhinged. Having Obama call him out and ridicule him, could set him off in ways unseen in a presidential election.

    Yes, I think Trump is that deranged.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  62. Gawain, I think Trump is so seat-of-the-pants and glandular and unfit that he’ll react to any distraction, and Obama just made himself one of his biggest distractions, followed by Hunter Biden’s laptop and Fauci and Lesley Stahl and probably Kristen Welker once she takes him task.
    Whatever case he needs to make to the American people will get lost in his own noise. The wild card will be how Biden does tomorrow.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  63. And yes, I know that’s not what was Mom Biden meant by the “you’re better than nobody” line, but that is certainly a very easy interpretation of it, and given Joe’s obvious intellectual limitations the line cries out for being rephrased in a more flattering manner.

    So we judge someone better than others (or not) based on their intellectual ability?

    I thought *I* was supposed to be the ivory-tower elitist here…

    I’m also surprised you’re still flogging the “Biden’s intellectual limitations” garbage. While he’s certainly no Pericles, and despite the stuttering problem he had to overcome, Biden generally speaks in complete sentences, is capable of finishing a thought, and has no difficulty formulating and discussing arguments based on logical reasoning. He also demonstrates a refreshing awareness that he doesn’t know everything about everything, which I would argue is an under-rated indicator of intelligence.

    Dave (1bb933)

  64. If Hunter didn’t know how this information got out, it tells me that his iCloud account could well have been hacked, probably because he had an easy-to-figure-out password. It’s also likely that, since Burisma was hacked by Russians, then Hunter Biden fell prey to the same bad actors.

    Agreed. The emails and photos are all real, but the scenario is fake. Real but fake. Fake but accurate. Where have I heard that before?

    Will be interesting if law enforcement does anything about the information once the election is over.

    Hoi Polloi (92d467)

  65. Agreed. The emails and photos are all real, but the scenario is fake. Real but fake. Fake but accurate. Where have I heard that before?

    Will be interesting if law enforcement does anything about the information once the election is over.

    Hoi Polloi (92d467) — 10/22/2020 @ 4:20 am

    So far there’s nothing in the emails that looks like evidence a crime was committed. When you move to other information found on the laptop (e.g. pictures) the providence of the information becomes important because you have to be able to show that Hunter put them there, or at least that the files were created when he had possession of the laptop. I don’t know how credible Rudy will be on the stand in his current state.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  66. Biden was reportedly forthcoming in his answer to 60 Minutes on court-packing:

    Joseph R. Biden Jr., who for weeks has declined to clarify his position on expanding the Supreme Court, said in a new interview that if elected, he would establish a bipartisan commission of scholars to study court reform more broadly.

    “I will ask them to, over 180 days, come back to me with recommendations as to how to reform the court system because it’s getting out of whack,” he told CBS News’s Norah O’Donnell, according to an interview excerpt that is expected to be broadcast Sunday on CBS’s “60 Minutes.”

    “The way in which it’s being handled, and it’s not about court packing, there’s a number of other things that our constitutional scholars have debated and I’ve looked to see what recommendations that commission might make.”

    Mr. Biden has previously opposed expanding the Supreme Court, but amid the current battle over Judge Amy Coney Barrett’s nomination by President Trump just before the election, he has declined to take a clear position on the issue. However, he promised last week that he would make his position known to voters before Election Day.

    The topic is likely to surface at tonight’s presidential debate.

    “The last thing we need to do is turn the Supreme Court into just a political football, whoever has the most votes gets whatever they want,” Mr. Biden said. “Presidents come and go. Supreme Court justices stay for generations.”

    He called the issue a “live ball” and said there were “a number of alternatives” that “go well beyond packing.”

    This seems like a defensible response. A form of term limits (with justices holding lifetime appointments as judges, but serving for a limited time on the Supreme Court) for future appointees might be politically feasible and compatible with Article III.

    Dave (1bb933)

  67. he providence of the information becomes important because you have to be able to show that Hunter put them there

    I would assume that the investigators would attempt to do that.

    Hoi Polloi (15cfac)

  68. Obama was right about this: Trump lies so much the fact-checkers can’t keep up.

    As of Aug. 27, the tally in our database that tracks every errant claim by the president stood at 22,247 claims in 1,316 days.

    Note the date. That was when he gave his speech accepting the Republican presidential nomination. We’ve been able to update the database only to that point as of today — so already we are eight weeks behind. (We maintain this database mostly in our spare time, in addition to our day jobs.)

    Just in the first 27 days of August, the president made 1,506 false or misleading claims, or 56 a day.

    This is but one of the many reasons why he has to go down hard, and why it’s why there should be a major reckoning in the GOP for picking such a historically contemptible human being. Biden says his share of lies, but it’s a garden hose compared to multiple firehoses.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  69. I think there isnt any interest in doing so, like hiding danchenkos drinking circle for nearly 4 years.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  70. @35

    I like presidents who don’t have secret Chinese bank accounts.

    Dave (1bb933) — 10/21/2020 @ 6:47 pm

    Wait… it was secret?

    I thought we already knew this from publicly disclosed documents??

    whembly (c30c83)

  71. I thought we already knew this from publicly disclosed documents??

    Did you know it? You, personally, your own self? Yes or no?

    Because “we” did not already know this from publicly disclosed documents. Because it was not in any publicly disclosed documents, namely the President’s financial disclosures. It was only discovered in Trump’s leaked tax returns.

    nk (1d9030)

  72. he providence of the information becomes important because you have to be able to show that Hunter put them there

    I would assume that the investigators would attempt to do that.

    Hoi Polloi (15cfac) — 10/22/2020 @ 6:19 am

    Right, but if they’re following process we don’t hear about what they find unless they feel they can convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  73. Right, but if they’re following process we don’t hear about what they find unless they feel they can convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Time123 (457a1d) — 10/22/2020 @ 6:34 am

    First they have to convince an AUSA to look at it who then has to convince a grand jury to let a jury look at it.

    Hoi Polloi (15cfac)

  74. nk (1d9030) — 10/21/2020 @ 6:52 pm

    who pays multi-million dollar speaking fees.

    careful or you’ll end up explaining how the clinton foundation schemes work

    frosty (f27e97)

  75. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/21/2020 @ 6:59 pm

    Again, you cannot turn every mundane fact into a federal crime, and then turn around and decry the lack of civility.

    Well, you can. We see it here on a regular basis. What you can’t do is do that and not have it undermine credibility.

    frosty (f27e97)

  76. Like the qataris hack 1,000 persons but they are fronted by a moroccan diplomat.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  77. @72…I didn’t know.

    whembly (c30c83)

  78. OT: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-business-partner-email-genuine-joe-biden-advice

    I don’t think anyone can NOW reasonably dispute the veracity of the stores about these communications.

    whembly (c30c83)

  79. Wait… it was secret?

    I thought we already knew this from publicly disclosed documents??

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/22/2020 @ 6:27 am

    You gotta link to that? I thought Trump hid this, keeping the accounts off his financial disclosures.

    I’m not sure if that’s legal, but he should have shared this information and his taxes, because he gave his word and then fought the disclosure of this information for years.

    I’m sure Trump fans will insist it’s not only legal but wonderful, and anyone who even complains only proves they are committing wrongthink and should be shunned. and if Obama or Biden or Romney did the same thing, it would be horrible and indefensible.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  80. Sorry for being abrupt. Was still on first cup of coffee.

    nk (1d9030)

  81. Time123 (f5cf77) — 10/22/2020 @ 5:13 am

    So far there’s nothing in the emails that looks like evidence a crime was committed. When you move to other information found on the laptop (e.g. pictures) the providence of the information becomes important because you have to be able to show that Hunter put them there, or at least that the files were created when he had possession of the laptop. I don’t know how credible Rudy will be on the stand in his current state.

    Again, there are a couple of mistakes here. If there is a picture on the laptop of him having sex with an underage girl you do not have to prove “Hunter put them there” (unless the charge is some sort of distribution) or “that the files were created when he had possession of the laptop”. You only have to prove that the photo is an accurate representation of true events.

    Try this, find an attorney you trust, create a hypo about how to get photos get into evidence at trial without referencing this issue. That will be difficult since this is such a hot topic. But ask them about how those photos are authenticated.

    frosty (f27e97)

  82. OT: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-business-partner-email-genuine-joe-biden-advice

    I don’t think anyone can NOW reasonably dispute the veracity of the stores about these communications.

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/22/2020 @ 7:03 am

    I don’t think there’s much question that Hunter is corrupt and was trying cash in on the family name.

    What I’m looking for is evidence that Joe was part of the scheme, or that this influenced his execution of US policy. I haven’t seen either of those. I’m also looking for evidence that the Laptop was actually Hunter’s and the he’s the one who took it to the repair shop.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  83. I don’t think anyone can NOW reasonably dispute the veracity of the stores about these communications.

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/22/2020 @ 7:03 am

    Well to an extent that’s always been clear. The russian disinfo Trump uses to screw with our elections always relies on a lot of truth to help sell the lies.

    It could range all the way from Paul’s theory, that Russia hacked Hunter’s icloud account and crammed all the material on a laptop. Then Trump could use the sexual photos of his opponent’s kid that Russians hacked, with better deniability. Or maybe they edited the emails, removing some, changing a few details, making it really hard to defend yourself without exposing bad behavior that we all think Hunter was engaged in. In a way, this may even help Hunter (because there’s no credibility to a Rudy and Bannon and NY Post claim, it will forever muddy the waters).

    The story really is trump’s continued obstruction of the investigations about Russian’s interference, not that Hunter is a sleazy guy trading on his dad’s name. Though Trump fans may have missed this, that aspect isn’t really in dispute. It also is a difficult issue to deal with because Trump’s family has done the same thing to what appears to be a blatantly greater extent (including Don Jr meeting with Russia to arrange collusion, lol!).

    If you ran and I ran for the local dogcatcher office, and my buddy hacked your sister’s gmail to find private photos she shared with her husband, and a few emails where they talked about cheating on their taxes, and I shared them with everyone in town, you would not think the story was the tax cheating. You would think the story was how horrible a political tactic and distortion that is, how that is ruining the whole process.

    I hope Trump is investigated all over again and a solution to Russia, Iran, and china interfering with our elections (for either side!) is worked up.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  84. Y’know, if Giuliani got the stuff out of Ukraine, he could have said so. It’s believable. There would be a question about accuracy, but the naked stuff would have confirmed that there was some authenticity involved.

    Instead, we get this absurd tale about a laptop in Delaware. Which is a lie. Which means it’s pretty easy to treat all the rest is a lie.

    The HB story will not change a vote, will not bring a voter to the polls, will not keep a voter from voting.

    Donald wants everything to be about him. He’s now succeeded. I wonder if he will be able to stand all the winning.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  85. Again, there are a couple of mistakes here. If there is a picture on the laptop of him having sex with an underage girl you do not have to prove “Hunter put them there” (unless the charge is some sort of distribution) or “that the files were created when he had possession of the laptop”. You only have to prove that the photo is an accurate representation of true events.

    Frosty, Agreed If there are pictures of Hunter doing something illegal the only question is if the pictures are of a real event. My take from the Rudy quote wasn’t that it was possession of CP.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  86. @85, the way this story is coming out makes me very skeptical about the accuracy of everything that’s revealed. If there had been a dump of hacked info from the Ukraine in Feb. It would have been more believable, and there would have been time to authenticate claims.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  87. The Khomeini Project

    The Lincoln Project, an anti-Trump political group, appears to have helped an Iranian disinformation effort go viral.

    Federal authorities concluded that Iran was behind a string of threatening emails targeting Democratic voters in swing states, The Washington Post reported Wednesday. The email senders claimed to be members of the Proud Boys, a fringe right-wing group.

    The Lincoln Project helped the Iranian misinformation go viral on social media, garnering more than 12,000 retweets by amplifying the false claim that the Proud Boys were trying to intimidate Democratic voters.

    “The Proud Boys are attempting to scare voters away from the polls. This is punishable by up to a year in jail and a blatant attempt to prevent people from voting. Let’s find them and make them famous,” the Lincoln Project tweet said.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  88. BNP,

    If your position is that anyone who has encouraged awareness of the racist Proud Boys is really working for Iran, can you justify Trump telling the Proud Boys, on national TV, to stand by (apparently for the election day and after)?

    I think Trump made the Proud Boys a major issue that Iran is exploiting, but the Lincoln Project criticizing Trump encouraging them is really not much of a connection. It’s not like Don Jr meeting with Russia and sharing intel with them.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  89. Do we have anything more than John Ratcliff’s word that Iran was behind the Proud Boy’s emails or that they did it to harm Trump? The emails appear on their face to be intended to reduce Dem turnout.

    I don’t trust John Ratcliff. He was put into this position specifically for his political loyalty to Trump. Trump is going around telling people he’s mad at Barr and Wray for not indicting his political enemies and is considering firing them because it.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  90. I don’t think anyone can NOW reasonably dispute the veracity of the stores about these communications.

    So one guy confirming one email exchange means nothing has been added to, removed from, or changed in, any of the others? You may have skipped a step or two in your reasoning here…

    And the emails in question concern negotiations that took place in 2017 and 2018, after Joe Biden was out of office.

    But if Hunter “frequently referenced asking [Joe] for his sign-off or advice on various potential deals,” and “these communications” are complete and accurate records, where are all the frequent business conversations between father and son?

    Dave (1bb933)

  91. If your position is that anyone who has encouraged awareness of the racist Proud Boys is really working for Iran

    My god.

    but the Lincoln Project criticizing Trump encouraging them is really not much of a connection

    Oh, is that what they did? Huh.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  92. Patterico (115b1f) — 10/21/2020 @ 7:46 pm

    I went back and finished my response to frosty from several days ago. Just wanted him to know I had.

    Yes. Thanks for responding.

    frosty (f27e97)

  93. Y’know, if Giuliani got the stuff out of Ukraine, he could have said so. It’s believable. There would be a question about accuracy, but the naked stuff would have confirmed that there was some authenticity involved.

    Instead, we get this absurd tale about a laptop in Delaware. Which is a lie. Which means it’s pretty easy to treat all the rest is a lie.

    The HB story will not change a vote, will not bring a voter to the polls, will not keep a voter from voting.

    Donald wants everything to be about him. He’s now succeeded. I wonder if he will be able to stand all the winning.

    Appalled (1a17de) — 10/22/2020 @ 7:15 am

    Exactly. They lie when telling the truth is easier. They are fumbling and bumbling. There is no way they didn’t add some lies to Hunter biden’s material because they don’t know how not to be con men. So any reasonable person believes both that Hunter Biden is unethical and that we don’t know what’s true or false from Rudy and Bannon’s story.

    If Hunter really did something bad, this aura of deception will protect him more than hurt him.

    I think it needs to be soberly investigated by the literal opposite of Rudy Giuliani so whatever Hunter and his dad did is well understood, and also so we know exactly who made this laptop, how the scam worked. I bet Rudy kept recordings and I bet he would snitch.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  94. Oh, is that what they did? Huh.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/22/2020 @ 7:26 am

    From the moment Trump encouraged the Proud Boys thugs to stand by, clearly for the election, I’d even say obviously to intimidate voters, the Lincoln Project has taken them to task.

    It’s no surprise the disinfo will attempt to muddy the waters on Trump’s collusion. “but they did it too” is the oldest con in the book.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  95. Do we have anything more than John Ratcliff’s word that Iran was behind the Proud Boy’s emails or that they did it to harm Trump?

    Unfortunately, James Clapper is no longer around to lend credibility, Time123.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  96. Or crowdstrike lol

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  97. The “evidence” linking Joe Biden to any of the material in the hacked and leaked data is as tenuous as one of Rudy’s negligees.

    The most notable thing about the kompromat is what it apparently doesn’t contain (any incriminating communication with Hunter’s father).

    Dave (1bb933)

  98. The “evidence” linking Joe Biden to any of the material in the hacked and leaked data is as tenuous as one of Rudy’s negligees.

    Good point. They really bungled this whole thing. But Trump has always shared what he knows with Russia, that’s one of the main scandals from 2016, sharing his intel with our enemies. Maybe Trump’s team knows Joe’s emails are on a federal server, there’s nothing really crazy in there, so if Russian went there their scam would be shut down much faster. Better to just use Hunter Biden and cast a cloud of doubt. No one really think Hunter Biden was a selfless, honorable guy here so that works.

    But if Russia’s hacking the children of Trump’s opponents that’s a bigger deal to me.

    Or crowdstrike lol

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 10/22/2020 @ 7:33 am

    Crowdstrike are the good guys. They are who our enemies hate the most. You’re the mark.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  99. Trump actively encourages violent white supremacists in the worst gaffe in debate history. “stand down and stand by”

    I am not surprised Trump fans now think that’s just something the Lincoln Project came up with. They certainly want us to be afraid of the effect of Trump, so it’s one of those lies that’s related to the truth. Add in some Iranian collusion and now collusion is just what everyone does, no big deal really.

    These Russian guys are brilliant. Perhaps the solution isn’t to kill them (though that is my preference) but to somehow Operation Paperclip them.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  100. That’s all Trumps minions have is using “whataboutism’ when their candidate can’t string together a coherent thought in a sentence? Psssst! Neither Obama, Hillary, Dr. Fauci nor Hunter Biden are on the ballot this year.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  101. Shorter BnP “whatabout my conspiracy theory

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  102. Mike Emanuel Flag of United States
    @MikeEmanuelFox
    ·
    59m
    May 20, 2017 text exchange obtained by #FoxNews – Tony Bobulinski is warned by business partner James Gilliar “Don’t mention Joe being involved, it’s only when u are face to face, I know u know that but they are paranoid”, which I’m told is a reference to Joe Biden.

    But to some, this is Russian disinformation.

    whembly (c30c83)

  103. I just caught the data….that’s after Biden was out of office.

    If former VP Biden was involved I’m lot less concerned.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  104. date, not data

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  105. whembly —

    How do you feel about Donald Trump Jr arranging the meeting at Trump tower to get the Hillary e-mails? Does it excite you as much as this story?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  106. @105 Then why the evasiveness?

    This is similar to that Nov 2, 2015 email from Burisma to Hunter who noted this same sort evasiveness of planning document regarding “names of top US officials”, but accepted if purpose was to be “on safe and cautious side” and everyone “understood the true purpose”.

    It’s not a good look.

    whembly (c30c83)

  107. It still looks bad, and I’d like a viable candidate who had done nothing remotely like this. But it’s not corrupt or criminal for a former public official to offer advice. It also doesn’t show evidence he was aware and involved while in office.

    Additionally this is a distinction that would take time to explain. Time that could otherwise be spent on other messages more likely to help him get elected. It doesn’t help him win, so if he’s talking about it he’s losing.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  108. How do you feel about Donald Trump Jr arranging the meeting at Trump tower to get the Hillary e-mails? Does it excite you as much as this story?

    It clearly excited the commenters here for four years, and it excited the Mueller team. Do you really want to go there?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  109. @110, so far no one has alleged that Hunter Biden did anything illegal. That’s an important difference you seem to be missing.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  110. @107

    whembly —

    How do you feel about Donald Trump Jr arranging the meeting at Trump tower to get the Hillary e-mails? Does it excite you as much as this story?

    Appalled (1a17de) — 10/22/2020 @ 8:21 am

    No. It does not and I’ll tell you why:

    1) It wasn’t “Hillary e-mails”. It was about “dirt” on Hillary.
    2) This is standard operating procedure in gutter politics and a hamfasted one. It’s naive to think campaigns don’t do this.
    3) When the Trump team realized it was a pretext to discuss Russian Adoption (which is code word for The Manjenski Act) they quickly shut down the meeting as they weren’t interested.

    In this Biden ordeal… where you have WAAAAAAAAAAY more evidence of corruption (primarily the $$$ involved) than anything Trump and his orbit has done, its amazing at the amount of spin from the supposed right-leaning, anti-Trump and traditional GOP voters attempt to minimize/deflect this.








    Okay… let’s get hypothetical here.

    For argument’s sake, let’s say all the criticism levied on Trump is valid.

    Then, let’s say everything that’s coming out that looks like the Bidens abused the office in a pay-to-play scheme AND all activities to date are simply future favors in the hope that Biden runs/wins the Presidency(these people play the “long game” after all).

    You have two candidates that are simply awful using their office to enrich themselves personally.

    Either Joe or Trump will be the next President.

    As a right-leaning traditional GOP voters, why on earth would you actually vote FOR Biden? And a step further, consider the awfulness of both candidate, why NOT go with Trump? At least the majority of Trump’s policies would be that of a traditional GOP president.

    That is the rationale, I believe, that drives most of Trump’s support. It’s purely transactional.

    whembly (c30c83)

  111. In this Biden ordeal… where you have WAAAAAAAAAAY more evidence of corruption (primarily the $$$ involved) than anything Trump and his orbit has done

    I disagree with this.

    As a right-leaning traditional GOP voters, why on earth would you actually vote FOR Biden?

    He’s massively less corrupt then Trump.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  112. whembly (c30c83) — 10/22/2020 @ 8:39 am

    That is the rationale, I believe, that drives most of Trump’s support. It’s purely transactional.

    But the desire for it to be a moral issue can be irresistible. This is why Lucy and the football works. This is why accusations of racism work. The desire to be perceived as moral can override any other rationale.

    frosty (f27e97)

  113. @113 Time123 (457a1d) — 10/22/2020 @ 8:54 am
    Let’s just agree to disagree then. 😉

    whembly (c30c83)

  114. Trump has released the 60 Minutes interview.

    Whadda maroon!

    Dave (1bb933)

  115. I will soon be giving a first in television history full, unedited preview of the vicious attempted “takeout” interview of me by Lesley Stahl of @60Minutes. Watch her constant interruptions & anger. Compare my full, flowing and “magnificently brilliant” answers to their “Q’s”.

    Trump actually tweeted that…

    Dave (1bb933)

  116. My god montagu have you bought the brooklyn bridge again?

    It’s about what I’m not buying, narciso, not to mention what Trump’s gullible supporters are are buying.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  117. whembly (c30c83) — 10/22/2020 @ 8:39 am

    That is the rationale, I believe, that drives most of Trump’s support. It’s purely transactional.

    But the desire for it to be a moral issue can be irresistible. This is why Lucy and the football works. This is why accusations of racism work. The desire to be perceived as moral can override any other rationale.

    frosty (f27e97) — 10/22/2020 @ 8:56 am

    I’d be open to a reprobate bastard that got things done. But mostly what Trump offers is conservative judges, which are good but not my central issue, and identity politics. Identity politics really doesn’t excite me so it’s more then overwhelmed by the corruption and incompetence.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  118. Appalled (1a17de) — 10/22/2020 @ 7:15 am

    Instead, we get this absurd tale about a laptop in Delaware. Which is a lie. Which means it’s pretty easy to treat all the rest is a lie.

    What’s wrong with that story? What’s wrong is some of the interpretations put on the material.

    Is the problem with the laptop that Hunter Biden supposedly wasn’t living in Delaware then? He was.

    It was only the next month that he married Melissa Cohen, after a 10 day courtship, and in June that he moved into a house in Hollywood Hills.

    That would in fact explain why he was unreachable and couldn’t be reached by the computer repairman to pick up his external hard drive and pay $85 for file recovery and return (or pay for?) the spare keyboard and cord he’d lent him.

    Hunter Biden had moved to California.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  119. My interest is purely transactional too: A world in which there is no place for Donald Trumps.

    nk (1d9030)

  120. Some of the emails have now been confirmed.

    And now the 2017 proposed deal with crooked Chinese Communist Party officials with Joe Biden having a 10% stake is the New York Post front age story today.

    https://nypost.com/covers

    Trump, if he mentions this, I’d be surprised if he doesn’t either speak too briefly and incoherently about it or mangle the facts.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  121. Also to hear Melania say “Moose and squirrel.” You get free shipping if they’re over thirty.

    nk (1d9030)

  122. Ha!
    I would definitely pay to hear Melania read a whole episode as Natasha. Maybe Gorka could do Boris.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  123. whembly,

    I appreciate your candor and polite exchange with Time 123, where you explained that you don’t worry so much about Trump’s people meeting with Russia to get ‘dirt’ because everyone does that.

    but doesn’t that kind of ‘what standards?’ defense also protect Joe Biden from his kids getting a payday they didn’t earn? did Jared Kushner or Donald Jr or Ivanka really deserve chinese patents and control over my state’s medical supplies? The family made at least a billion this term.

    for some reason, that’s OK and Hunter’s isn’t, but don’t they both seem unethical? And Jared’s awful performance had real stakes in American life.

    I just think this shows that we should raise the bar. There’s no doubt some Team D politician would take and give intel to our enemies they way Trump gave Russia intel and took their help with disinfo online. But that’s wrong. Tyrants don’t care who they help so long as they undermine the cause of trusting democracy.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  124. @125 Yes, we should “raise the bar”. But, the time to do that is during the grassroot/primary phase of nominating our politicians.

    Because right now, it’s the radical/extremes of the party, being that they’re so animated, has an outsized influence in this early phase.

    So, when Biden is just as bad as Trump (look, I know it’s debatable but bear with me). If you’re right-leaning politically… look at this transactionally. Would Biden advance any of your agendas? Or would Trump?

    They idea that voting for “x” in opposition of your usual partisan bent to “punish” your party seems silly. The voter’s attention span is tiny and as such wouldn’t factor into anything in future elections.

    I’m not saying that we shouldn’t criticize Trump or any current potus. But, endeavouring to flip your sh!ts because your guy didn’t win the nomination and leaving the party isn’t health imo. We have a system for a reason and if you want to effect change you must participate in the process.

    To recap: participate in the grassroots/primary phase of your elections so that the radicals are minimized. That’s where you’d “raise the bar”…because if you don’t, it’s too late to do anything about it and you’re stuck with hard choices*. That is, if you’re a Nikki Haley supporter (pick one) you’d start you 2024 midset after Nov. 3rd.

    *For me, the choice isn’t hard as I’m 100% voting for Trump to keep Democrats out of power. Not because I worship Trump.

    whembly (c30c83)

  125. To recap: participate in the grassroots/primary phase of your elections so that the radicals are minimized.

    The Democrats did that, and nominated the most boring, watered-down, unradical option out of about a dozen viable contenders.

    He’s so boring that his political opponents are livid that he isn’t campaigning more.

    Dave (1bb933)

  126. @125 Yes, we should “raise the bar”. But, the time to do that is during the grassroot/primary phase of nominating our politicians.

    Because right now, it’s the radical/extremes of the party, being that they’re so animated, has an outsized influence in this early phase.

    So, when Biden is just as bad as Trump (look, I know it’s debatable but bear with me). If you’re right-leaning politically… look at this transactionally. Would Biden advance any of your agendas? Or would Trump?

    They idea that voting for “x” in opposition of your usual partisan bent to “punish” your party seems silly. The voter’s attention span is tiny and as such wouldn’t factor into anything in future elections.

    I’m not saying that we shouldn’t criticize Trump or any current potus. But, endeavouring to flip your sh!ts because your guy didn’t win the nomination and leaving the party isn’t health imo. We have a system for a reason and if you want to effect change you must participate in the process.

    To recap: participate in the grassroots/primary phase of your elections so that the radicals are minimized. That’s where you’d “raise the bar”…because if you don’t, it’s too late to do anything about it and you’re stuck with hard choices*. That is, if you’re a Nikki Haley supporter (pick one) you’d start you 2024 midset after Nov. 3rd.

    *For me, the choice isn’t hard as I’m 100% voting for Trump to keep Democrats out of power. Not because I worship Trump.

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/22/2020 @ 11:18 am

    1. The extremes of the dem party didn’t want Biden. They wanted Bernie or Warren. The extreme left outside of the party has made it clear they view Biden as part of the political machine they hate and see little difference between him and say, Romney. They didn’t love Harris or mayor Pete either FWIW.

    2. I want smaller government, strong national defense, fiscal discipline, and rule of law. Trump has meager to no accomplishments in these areas. Definitely none that would justify his open corruption and general incompetence.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  127. @128 Time123 (f5cf77) — 10/22/2020 @ 12:03 pm

    1. That proves my point. I’ll even agree that Biden is better than the rest of the Democratic candidates. It’s not that I think Biden would be a good POTUS…it’s that the other candidates were objectively worse politically.(Although, I think I would prefer Tulsi over Biden…but, not by much).

    2. Meager accomplishments is better than zero. (and I can’t think of anything Biden would do that I’d support).

    whembly (c30c83)


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