Patterico's Pontifications

10/20/2020

Trump Irritated By Interviewer’s Questions, Walks Out

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:18 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Hm, 14 days away from the presidential election, and Trump thinks it’s in his best interest to go after a veteran journalist during an important interview because he didn’t like the line of questioning? That leads me to believe that Lesley Stahl of 60 Minutes was asking direct questions of Trump. Questions that he needs to answer fully and without equivocation (you pick the subject, there’s any number from which to choose):

President Donald Trump reportedly walked out of his interview with 60 Minutes’ Lesley Stahl on Tuesday, according to CNN White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. “Apparently there was some drama while President Trump was taping his 60 Minutes interview today,” Collins tweeted, adding that the president “abruptly ended his solo interview after around 45 minutes” and “did not return for a scheduled walk & talk he was supposed to tape” with Vice President Mike Pence.

Shortly after the interview, the president apparently tried to create a diversion by tweeting a six-second clip of Stahl “not wearing a mask in the White House after her interview with me,” adding, “Much more to come.” Like Trump, Stahl was hospitalized with COVID-19 earlier in the pandemic.

And because we’re apparently operating at a junior high level, ooh, look at this burn

Man, this guy has a really weird campaign strategy going on…

Anyway, here’s Popehat recalling his personal encounter with Leslie Stahl. Hey, we were all young once!

–Dana

172 Responses to “Trump Irritated By Interviewer’s Questions, Walks Out”

  1. Two weeks before an election, and he chooses to, not just walk out of an important interview, but he also tries to pre-emptively strike by burning Lesley Stahl too. Omg. Yeah, tell me again how Trump is presidential material.

    Dana (6995e0)

  2. they all treat mr president donald so unfairly

    Dave (1bb933)

  3. Why are they such haters, Dave?

    Dana (6995e0)

  4. At his rally tonight, he blamed “Crooked Hillary” when his mic went dead for a few seconds:

    The president’s microphone cut out at one point, prompting him to tap on the head of the mic until it turned back on a few seconds later.

    ‘Is the mic ready? Yes. I wonder who did that to our mic,’ Trump facetiously quipped. ‘I don’t believe it was Joe. You know who it was, Crooked Hillary. I think it was probably Crooked Hillary.’

    Completely. Unhinged.

    Dave (1bb933)

  5. Only reporter who seems to know anything at cbs is catherine herridge yet shes a pariah.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  6. Frankly, I surprised he keeps going back to these old media guards for interviews.

    They never conducts these interviews in good faith if you’re from the GOP party…and, Trump doubly that.

    whembly (c30c83)

  7. He couldn’t handle Megyn Kelly, he can’t handle a few minutes with a 60 minutes interviewer. No surprise he can’t handle Kim Jung Un or ISIS, both worse than ever.

    His idea of a tough guy is someone who can grope a woman who is unwilling to report “a star.”

    Trump had a bad year. His taxes got out, showing he misled us and has some secret chinese bank account, owes someone hundreds of millions, and is a huge loser in business. He lost hundreds of thousands of American lives on his watch. Most of his answers to crisis, the test of Trump’s life, were things like injecting household cleaner and trying to keep masks off the TV so we think everything is normal.

    You bet there were questions Trump needs to answer directly. And in a way, he did answer. The reason America is losing is that we are led by a loser.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  8. But, hey… at least he’s willing to engage the media.

    Unlike Joseph “Lid” Biden.

    Speaking of Biden…

    @MajorCBS
    Via
    @ClareHymes22 @CBSNews

    The FBI & DOJ concur with DNI Ratcliffe’s assessment that Hunter Biden’s laptop and the emails in question were not part of a Russian disinformation campaign. FBI does has possession of the Hunter Biden laptop in question.

    CBS is now reporting this…

    whembly (c30c83)

  9. They never conducts these interviews in good faith if you’re from the GOP party…and, Trump doubly that.

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/20/2020 @ 7:33 pm

    Trump brags he sexually assaults people and folks act like he’s fit for society. That’s a gift. The racist POS told you he had secret evidence Obama was secretly from Africa and no one even cares. Obama wore a tan suit once and a lot of the media, such as FNC, made a bigger deal of that.

    Trump’s pathological.

    This isn’t like Newt or Cruz giving the press a run for their money, and the press acting like babies. This is a sober, polite interview in one of the worst years in the country’s last century.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  10. Strategic tantrum:

    Stahl previously said that during an off-camera conversation with Trump in 2016, when he was running for President, he admitted his attacks on the press were meant to discredit negative stories that emerged about him.

    “He said, ‘You know why I do it? I do it to discredit you all and demean you all so when you write negative stories about me, no one will believe you.’ He said that,” Stahl said.

    Or Baby Drumpfy McDrumpfelschnitzel’s diaper was chafing. Either way.

    nk (1d9030)

  11. They threw lara logan down the rathole after she nearly died of ebola, another reporter of note.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  12. Thoughts on the change to the debate procedure to mute the opponent’s mic during each candidate’s initial two-minute “uninterrupted” answer to the questions?

    I think anything that prevents Trump from being as Trumpy as he wants to be is bad for Biden.

    Dave (1bb933)

  13. Trump walking out on Stahl just reveals his fear.

    Dana (6995e0)

  14. It may also just be a contrived stunt to keep his cultists’ grievance meters pegged at 11.

    Dave (1bb933)

  15. If they didnt have double standards they would have none

    https://mobile.twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1318716048925990919

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  16. One account of what happened in the interview:

    According to a person with knowledge of what happened during the interview, Trump was unhappy that Stahl asked him tough questions regarding his rhetoric about Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D) and his handling of the coronavirus pandemic, as well as the size of the crowds at his rallies and his disputes with Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s leading infectious-disease expert. Stahl also told him during the interview that allegations about Biden’s son Hunter were not verified and that the Obama administration did not spy on the Trump campaign. Many of the questions were about the coronavirus pandemic and his handling of it, said the person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the interview frankly.

    Dave (1bb933)

  17. More:

    The person familiar with the interview said that there are no bombshell revelations, but that Trump complained about it all day and wants to take the air out of it by releasing it early. Three aides, who were not authorized to speak publicly, said the president overreacted, and one suggested that he might actually boost the ratings of a tough interview.

    A senior White House official said Trump had told aides he wanted to go after Stahl and brainstormed ideas after the session with a group of aides in the Oval Office.

    Dave (1bb933)

  18. Yep, like I said: she was asking direct questions of Trump. Questions that he needs to answer fully and without equivocation.

    Dana (6995e0)

  19. one suggested that he might actually boost the ratings of a tough interview.

    For sure.

    Trump had told aides he wanted to go after Stahl

    Meanwhile ISIS is surging. Kim has a huge new ICBM. God knows what Iran is up to but I bet it’s pretty bad.

    Three weeks from today. Things could get bad and people could panic. Stock up what you need to get through it.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  20. why wait three weeks to freak out when we can freak out right now mr dustin

    Dave (1bb933)

  21. Disneyland statement about being able to open safely (as they have done elsewhere) but the state of CA making ‘arbitrary and unworkable’ demands more severe than for other businesses and government-operated facilities.

    https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1318732529248227330?s=20
    __ _

    Ben Shapiro
    @benshapiro

    The political math in CA is so screwed up that Disneyland is widely perceived as a problem and Newsom as a solution
    __ _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  22. I’m sorry she didn’t ask about his Chinese bank account that mysteriously got plumped with 17 million in 2017. I am curious what his answer would be.

    They never conducts these interviews in good faith if you’re from the GOP party…and, Trump doubly that.

    Funny how Republicans are incapable of handling hostile questions. Makes you doubt their power and manly strength.

    Victor (00af29)

  23. LOL dave

    Nevertheless, I’ll get a few cans of formula and maybe keep the gas tank full.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  24. Trump walking out on Stahl just reveals his fear.

    Now do Biden putting a “lid” on interviews.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  25. 2,3: Trump’s attempt to game the refs is pathetic on its own, but it also ironically obscures the fact that most of the things he does that would end another candidacy or presidency actually get little to no effective press scrutiny. It’s a close corollary to something I struggled through sleep deprived delirium to express here a few days ago about the firehose effect of Trump’s depravity. Here’s somebody doing it it much better job than I did, or frankly could have even if I had been lucid:

    “This of course is the problem with covering Trump. The scale and frequency of his offenses is so far outside the historic norm that it is impossible to measure him by normal standards. The only way to cover his lies and misconduct is to create a different, lower standard. Attempting to cover Trump’s violations the same way you’d cover them if they had been committed by Barack Obama or George W. Bush would create a press storm so large that it would exceed the limits of time and space that news coverage can consume. Holding him accountable to a normal standard is physically impossible.”

    That’s the nub of it, but as they say, read the whole thing

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  26. Now do Biden putting a “lid” on interviews.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/20/2020 @ 8:13 pm

    That’s a hell of a lot smarter. Biden’s whole strategy of eating ice cream and watching netflix is pretty good next to Trump’s strategy of being a douchebag to Fauci and a few interviewers, while having Rudy facilitate the most incompetent and instantly dismissed October surprises of all time.

    If Biden were running against W he wouldn’t have a chance. If he were running against high quality taco, no chance. But Biden is giving your boy a run for his money. In Texas.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  27. But thats different bp because they will definitely hold him to account once hes in office. Mostly variations of what enchants you today.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  28. Now do Biden putting a “lid” on interviews.

    Biden and Harris already did their interviews for their segment on that same planned “60 Minutes” show.

    Now do Kenny Rogers’ “You gotta know when to hold them, know when to fold them, …” for me.

    nk (1d9030)

  29. good link, lurker

    Dustin (4237e0)

  30. Biden and Harris already did their interviews for their segment on that same planned “60 Minutes” show.

    In my defense I didn’t even know this show still existed. But good response. BNP, do you admit by your expressed test Biden is better?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  31. Thanks for linking that, lurker. Really good.

    Dana (6995e0)

  32. Meanwhile back at the motel, the last question Biden has answered is what flavor of ice cream he had. It sounded like his answer was chocolate and vanilla. The question after that was about the laptop and you can hear the press laughing as he shuffles away as fast as he can without tripping.

    frosty (f27e97)

  33. At this point in time, Trump is literally campaigning for Biden. He’s just too dense to know it. Someone should maybe tell him.

    Dana (6995e0)

  34. The only way to cover his lies and misconduct is to create a different, lower standard.

    LOL, from the lefty hack who wrote an entire column about how he hated W. Bush personally and as president.

    Thanks to Trump, establishment Republicans are shielded from Nazi comparisons, at least for now, and they hate him for it.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  35. In my defense I didn’t even know this show still existed. But good response. BNP, do you admit by your expressed test Biden is better?

    Stahl playing pat-a-cake with Biden wouldn’t count as an interview.

    Name one hostile interview Biden has granted. Just one. Shouldn’t be hard, Dustin.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  36. Stahl playing pat-a-cake with Biden wouldn’t count as an interview.

    OK but the interview they had counts as an interview

    Name one hostile interview Biden has granted. Just one. Shouldn’t be hard, Dustin.

    Biden did the same interview Trump found impossible. You’re right. That wasn’t hard.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  37. Dustin waves the white flag.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  38. So far all you guys have is that Trump is a victim, weak, it’s not fair, he can’t even sit in a room and answer some simple questions.

    How is Trump supposed to stop ISIS if frosty and BNP tell me he is such a weakling? the press has been far, far kinder to Trump than any other president in my lifetime. The guy gets a pass for everything, free coverage all the time. He can’t handle anyone who isn’t a yes man.

    At a certain depth of failure, like 220,000 dead Americans on his watch, any reasonable, fair question will be serious. That’s the job Trump said he could do.

    what really amazes me about the Trump fans is that Trump can be a billion times more unfair, a billion times more nasty, and that’s totally cool. He can be an NBC employee saying Bush was the worst president in history and 9/11 was his fault, and that’s not unfair.

    But ask Trump a direct question ‘say did you ever get the results from that household cleaner injection thing?’ and suddenly they are thin skinned.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  39. If Biden were running against W he wouldn’t have a chance. If he were running against high quality taco, no chance. But Biden is giving your boy a run for his money. In Texas.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 10/20/2020 @ 8:23 pm

    What the f— is “high quality taco”?

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  40. But he already ran against harris, its sad gabbard was unpersoned for pointing out her flaws

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  41. 35. A conspicuously substance-free, ad hominem, non-response. Good job.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  42. Dustin waves the white flag.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/20/2020 @ 8:41 pm

    You mocked Biden for putting “a lid on interviews” to show that Trump was superior for at least having this one. You were misleading us. You got called out. Now you’re trying to change the subject, so you don’t have to admit what you said was wrong.

    Integrity, beer n pretzels. Just own the silly error.

    By your standards, Biden did indeed survive something so hostile Trump appears to be on the verge of tears. Unless you have some evidence the treatment was different (and we all know it probably wasn’t).

    Sorry your candidate is a little b—-.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  43. You have an answer more than mask, which thr great and powerful fauci told us werent needed he also underestimated the severity, made excuses for chinas criminal negligence. But he cant be bothered

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  44. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/20/2020 @ 8:44 pm

    You’ve got the troll knob turned to 11. You’re already starting to repeat yourself and your sentences are barely held together. Can you maintain that pace through the election? At this rate you’ll be doing stream of consciousness word salad in a couple of days.

    BTW; tacos don’t meet the the Art. II requirements. Also, W currently is ineligible under the 22nd.

    frosty (f27e97)

  45. 35. A conspicuously substance-free, ad hominem, non-response. Good job.

    lurker (d8c5bc) — 10/20/2020 @ 8:57 pm

    I don’t hold it against him too much. He should have more integrity, but anger and personal attacks are natural responses to being cornered. It’s been a frustrating year. We all want better for our country. If you’re invested emotionally in Trump, it’s hard to understand why it’s so bad. It just seems unfair.

    What the f— is “high quality taco”?

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 10/20/2020 @ 8:53 pm

    I’d say Torchy’s and up. I mean if you cook some (good) beef in butter and lime and put it in a (good) little tortilla with some feta and pico it’s probably going to be good.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  46. A conspicuously substance-free, ad hominem, non-response.

    Was there a question? You link to the dishonest musings of a lefty Bush-hating a$$wipe as if it’s some pearls of wisdom. Great to hear he no longer thinks Bush is Hitler. What an effing jacka$$, but you think he’s awesome because he hates Trump and probably for no other reason.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  47. You’ve got the troll knob turned to 11.

    I know you sincerely believe that, but it’s not intentional. I just think Trump’s a little b—-. You are real upset lately and I just want you to know I do not really hold it against you. Some of these guys are just fighting the fight, but you really are mad at me. Most of the country feels the way I do. We really really dislike your boy. Don’t take it personally, because you aren’t Trump. he used you. Hopefully it will start to resolve soon.

    It’s best we talk past eachother for a while though. I don’t have the energy or the interest in this kind of thing. I used to be like you with these elections, so I mean it when I say no judgment (even though I know you twisted this point very dishonestly yesterday).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  48. Dustin, hmmm.

    In the meantime, Gloria Allred is now doing ads *against* Prop 22. LOL. Yeah, that’ll help.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  49. @22 Disneyland helped us have a measles epidemic less than 10 years ago. Measles, in this day and age. Yeah, I’m not surprised that the state doubts their hygienic measures. And they are terrible to their park workers on top of it. Also Disney is a huge multimedia conglomerate making money hand over fist, even during the epidemic and constantly making our copyright and trademark law worse. Every time those get extended, you should see the hand of Disney moving the clock. I do not feel sorry for them.

    @23 Trump is a snowflake.

    @39 Have you seen the interview? Gotten an early copy, have you?

    Nic (896fdf)

  50. Re Disney, it’s only a matter of time now until they pull out their big guns:
    1. Bribing
    2. Suing

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  51. which thr great and powerful fauci told us werent needed

    I think he actually explained he needed them for the hospitals and emergency responders, because Trump and Obama both neglected our emergency supply. He’s been pretty consistent saying masks ain’t the end all be all, but definitely helpful if you need to go out. Fauci doesn’t think you should go about your life and party at bars if you have a mask, but he never said they weren’t needed. they were just a little too desperately needed early, when hoarding was a huge problem, for Fauci to tell people to go get as many as they can.

    Think about it.

    Trump’s campaign against Fauci is horrible.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  52. Why hasnt allred been disbarred what does it take?

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  53. Bolivar, IMHO Allred’s too much of a celebrity and way too cozy with the entire California DNC at this stage.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  54. I think it’s about stopping trump and putin from ruining literally the whole world. We both sound kinda dramatic, but I happen to be correct.

    Biden is easily worth the price if you consider what Trump really is.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:38 am

    Literally? The whole world?

    Integrity. Just own the silly error. Some sense of perspective. Try to find some.

    frosty (f27e97)

  55. Fauci wins plaudits for talking the treatment he has backed all the way remdesvir has problems does he have an answer, having defamed hcq cocktail noe we have to wait for the vaccine which might be mandated or might be ignored, flip a coin.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  56. @39 Have you seen the interview? Gotten an early copy, have you?

    Trump posted the Tulsi, Biden, and for some reason the Palin segments here.

    The premise of BNP’s grand inquisition is that Trump’s treatment by 60 Minutes was indeed incredibly hostile. We all know that Trump and Biden were given the same tone, basic kinds of direct questions. Maybe Sean Hannity imagines Biden was asked ‘why are you so great?’ while Trump was asked about Ivana’s rape affidavit, but the truth is, these ‘listen to all candidates’ specials will treat them all about the same. 60 minutes is not exactly a cutting edge product. My real point is that Trump overreacted, not that Biden is some great anything. Biden is an unelectable fool who happens to be running against someone who almost seems to be trying to lose.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  57. @51: Disney pays Stephanopolous millions to run a town hall and be what you probably thought was so very tough on Biden.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  58. Dustin, you couldn’t name one single hostile interview for Biden. Such give up.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  59. Trump’s threat to release his own tape of the interview reminds me of Trump’s threat to release audiotapes of his conversations with Comey after we learned that Comey took detailed notes of his conversations with Trump.
    It’s all bluster and bullsh*t.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  60. Was there a question?

    No, but you answered anyway. And your reply was substance-free, ad hominem, and non-responsive.

    You link to the dishonest musings of a lefty Bush-hating a$$wipe as if it’s some pearls of wisdom. Great to hear he no longer thinks Bush is Hitler. What an effing jacka$$, but you think he’s awesome because he hates Trump and probably for no other reason.

    Well that fixed it. Nothing substance-free, ad hominem or non-responsive about that.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  61. There is always less to Trump than meets the eye.

    It may very well be that “his diaper was chafing him”, either literally or metaphorically, he is a sick old man after all, and his complaints about Stahl’s question are nothing more than convenient lies to both deflect and whip up the base.

    I would say “We’ll see”, but by the time 60 Minutes broadcasts the interview, Trump will have spewed out a dozen other spews of spit bubbles, and today’s events will just have become part of the general Trump sewer-sludge like Chait wrote.

    nk (1d9030)

  62. That was a good link, lurker.

    nk (1d9030)

  63. Dustin, you couldn’t name one single hostile interview for Biden. Such give up.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/20/2020 @ 9:31 pm

    BNP, I’ve already explained this three times.

    You mocked Biden for putting a lid on interviews, contrasting him from Trump at least walking out of an interview. You were misleading us. Biden did the same interview you deemed too tough to tame. Of course it is only hostile to ask Trump direct questions. That’s your hidden premise.

    So you shifted the goalposts. Now, I’m obligated to tell the Grand Inquisitor all the times Biden took a hostile question from Fox News (and you will tell me each of those don’t count). T

    But hey, here’s Biden actually specifically identifying a questioner as “hostile” then taking a tough question and calmly answering without crying like Trump.

    So now I’ve answered your little challenge twice. And you get to ignore my argument again, hoping no one notices that your initial claim was that biden put a lid on interviews.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  64. @58 ROFL. And dreadful. You. are terrible.

    @59 “you probably thought was…” You can go back and read, in detail, what I thought in the thread on this site, if you want. It isn’t that far down the blog. I play-by-played the entire town hall.

    However, I fail to see how this answers the question of whether or not you’ve seen the 60 minutes interview in some kind of early release in order to accurately judge the questions given to Biden vs. the questions given to Trump.

    Nic (896fdf)

  65. Biden did the interview with Stahl. I’m guessing it was low-key, calm, and Biden was able to answer all of the questions with efficiency. (However, who knows re court packing.). But nonetheless, I’d bet big money that there wasn’t the drama, complaining, and there wasn’t any irritable walking out of the interview, followed by a public attack on Stahl like there was with Trump. In other words, I’m sure it was normal, professional and courteous.

    And Trump can’t figure out why America doesn’t want him around any longer? I’m beginning to suspect this guy isn’t as smart as he’s led us to believe…

    Dana (6995e0)

  66. i really do not understand why mr. joe biden is not running the amazingly successful campaign that mr. president donald trump is running either, mr. Dustin

    and this despite all the advice from mr. president donald trump’s superfans

    it’s like he’s not listening to them at all

    mr. joseph biden i mean

    to mr. president donald trump’s superfans

    and when he said he would be a president for every American too

    nk (1d9030)

  67. Yes they are very junior high as we found out with the journolist and the vetting of copy in the last campaign. Guthries primal scream was all about that, so was the reaction to mayra the iconoclastic dominican lawyer.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  68. Now do Biden putting a “lid” on interviews.

    The easy thing for a politician who isn’t a buffoon to do is–once you agree to the interview–you finish it.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  69. I’d bet big money that there wasn’t the drama, complaining, and there wasn’t any irritable walking out of the interview, followed by a public attack on Stahl like there was with Trump. In other words, I’m sure it was normal, professional and courteous.

    Complaining, irritation and drama about media bias was the bread and butter of this blog not so very long ago. A cursory search would reveal a trove of posts and comments, before the blog began to calmly and courteously cheer that bias on.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  70. However, I fail to see how this answers the question of whether or not you’ve seen the 60 minutes interview in some kind of early release in order to accurately judge the questions given to Biden vs. the questions given to Trump.

    Nic (896fdf) — 10/20/2020 @ 9:50 pm

    I haven’t watched a single interview of either candidate. I certainly haven’t seen the 60 minutes interview. I have a quiet home without news channels, or even access to news channels, unless I use my laptop. It has been at least 2 years since any kind of TV commercial has polluted my home.

    I’m relying on a reasonable assumption that they treated them about the same. These old school programs giving ‘here’s an interview with both candidates before you vote’ will put some effort into being about the same in tenor and treatment. they always do that. I seriously doubt the hostility level was any different Biden to Trump.

    It won’t be ‘Biden you are so great, what was life like on the streets of scranton?’ vs ‘Mr. President, do you intend the Proud boys to stand by in preparation for violence, and against what color?’

    Trump has a rough record lately, so it would be hard to avoid any questions that don’t offend him. Even if asked directly and plainly, with no hostility. To his defenders, that will prove how evil and unfair the media was, but that was never the ‘oh that liberal media’ argument. No one ever wanted the press to stop asking direct questions about problems to conservatives.

    conservatives should answer these questions with solutions. if an interview is genuinely whacky, it’s normal to just point that out, calmly. that’s what looks strong because it shows higher level thinking skills of evaluation and analysis, and not just the lower level skills of understanding and recalling knowledge. Obviously this is getting off topic. The thread’s about Trump and I’m talking about the mind.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  71. @72 Oo, sorry, that was meant for BNP who seems to think I’m soft on Stephanopolous and so that justifies him judging the Stahl interview w/out having seen it.

    Nic (896fdf)

  72. really, mr. Nic?

    mr. president donald trump, who is not the kind of girl who gives up just like that, said that the interview was unfair

    that’s all anybody needs to know

    nk (1d9030)

  73. And you get to ignore my argument again, hoping no one notices that your initial claim was that biden put a lid on interviews.

    “Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden is back at his Wilmington, Del., home and will not return to the campaign trail until after his face-off with President Trump at Thursday night’s debate.

    The former vice president landed in his home state Sunday evening after campaigning in North Carolina, after which the Biden campaign called a lid.”

    https://nypost.com/2020/10/19/biden-calls-lid-on-campaign-events-until-after-next-debate/

    But since the post is blocked by Twitter/FB (no bias) you probably didn’t know.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  74. They didnt say if robert downey jr asked any

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jonkarl/status/1318741261440995328

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  75. You can go back and read, in detail, what I thought in the thread on this site, if you want. It isn’t that far down the blog. I play-by-played the entire town hall.

    Well, sure.

    DCSCA: Any questions about Hunter yet?
    Nic: Nope, not yet.

    LOL. Nope, not ever. And, you didn’t see Guthrie for comparison. But, I need to see the Stahl interview first, right Nic?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  76. Complaining, irritation and drama about media bias was the bread and butter of this blog not so very long ago. A cursory search would reveal a trove of posts and comments, before the blog began to calmly and courteously cheer that bias on.

    It sounds like you are unable to allow the President of the United States to assume responsibility for his own actions, and I wonder why that is.

    Dana (6995e0)

  77. It sounds like you are unable to allow the President of the United States to assume responsibility for his own actions, and I wonder why that is.

    It’s as if Biden doesn’t have 48 years of political hackery that he needs to assume responsibility for. I wonder why that is.

    Trump has had umpteen dozen hostile interviews and press conferences in the past several months, and you ask that question? Ridiculous.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  78. BNP’s linking the NY Post because he knows it will get people to react. He claimed biden fell short of Trump on interviews, he was wrong. Biden did this very interview a lot better than Trump did, assuming he didn’t cry and walk out like a little b—-.

    Same reason BNP replied to my prompt examples of Biden’s interviews, including a very hostile Fox News question, as ‘waving the white flag’. He doesn’t need to be right about anything. He just needs to troll the subject in a different direction.

    This is exactly the effect Trump has had on the nation. this is the example of manhood he has set. Never tell the truth. Never improve yourself. Never say you are sorry. Marriage is a lie. Life is cheap.

    The consequences could be profound. Students of history often compare Trump to the worst leaders, but it’s the bigger picture we should study. Democracies do not go to war with other (legitimate) democracies. It’s quite rare at least. And Putin’s disinfo chaos in the elections of France, Germany, the UK, and the USA, as well as the decline in NATO’s alliance, are attacks on democracies being trusted. The consequences could be truly profound. I think it’s ruining the world. I think millions could die.

    Trump being a coward again is just a symptom. It is awful for America to be led by that sh–. It’s harmed us on a number of levels. But also, we don’t really trust our elections anymore. We all are flooded with doubt. We know our way of life is in decline. But even if Hillary had won, even if Biden wins, the damage is not going away with Trump.

    Anyway, hopefully I’m wrong. I hope the United States develops a street smart to lies on the internet, to bastards getting a paycheck out of validating idiots, to bots and trolls. But wherever Iran, North Korea, Russia, and China have its hackers and botnets run from, those places should be craters in the ground.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  79. @77 Yes, you have to see the Stahl interview of Biden if you are going to call it soft. I didn’t make any comments about the moderation in the Trump town hall because I didn’t see the Trump townhall. I commented on the townhall I saw, not on the one I didn’t. Neither did I make a blind judgement on the moderators before I had a chance to see either.

    Nic (896fdf)

  80. Agreed, Nic.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  81. 79,

    So asking that the sitting President of the United States be held accountable for his words and actions that have impacted Americans during his tenure is ridiculous. I didn’t expect that. I would I hope that Americans everywhere would want each and every sitting President of the United States to be held to account for everything they do during their tenure.

    Dana (6995e0)

  82. mr vladimir gives president donald backrubs

    mr rocket man writes him beautiful letters

    just who does fakenews leslie stahl think she is anyway

    Dave (1bb933)

  83. At this point, support for Trump is a test.

    One might still support policies and directions that Trump appeared to support, but the idea that he is the person to lead the nation there should have been smashed. Rather than tie one’s hopes and dreams to this now-unhinged, dangerous and self-destructing man, it would be better to find someone else to carry on. Hopefully someone competent and sane.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  84. What is going through Trump’s mind?

    Eight, sir; seven, sir;
    Six, sir; five, sir;
    Four, sir; three, sir;
    Two, sir; one!
    Tenser, said the Tensor.
    Tenser, said the Tensor.
    Tension, apprehension,
    And dissension have begun

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. I would like to know why Trump can’t be judged and held to account for his own independent actions and why he/they must be tied to Biden? Biden hasn’t been in charge for the past 3-plus years. Biden hasn’t been a part of the decision-making of this administration, nor has he had any influence on specific situations (that we know of anyway). It wasn’t a partnership between Trump and Biden.

    I think Trump is scare of being found out. But what he misses is that he already has been found out. We already know he’s screwed up a number of situations, we already know his character flaws, his corruption, etc., and we already know that he’s worried and afraid that he will lose the election. And when Trump is fearful (usually manifested as anger), he lashes out. Thus his attack on Lesley Stahl, pre-emptive strikes, and efforts to discourage people from watching the interview. If he frames her as some sort of unfair, out-to-get-him loser , then maybe people won’t watch the interview. And maybe they won’t hear what she puts to him, and how he is unable to thoughtfully respond. Two weeks out from the election and he is walking out of an important interview.

    Of course, he can still blame the whole thing on Hillary.

    Dana (6995e0)

  86. Complaining, irritation and drama about media bias was the bread and butter of this blog not so very long ago. A cursory search would reveal a trove of posts and comments, before the blog began to calmly and courteously cheer that bias on.

    The “bread and butter” I recall was Patterico doing long, detailed critiques of biased and otherwise shoddy journalism (typically LAT), fisking it falsehood by falsehood. I don’t recall him whining that the media was mean to him, so we should indiscriminately dismiss everything they report that embarrasses his team.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  87. GOP and Dem candidates for governor in Utah cut a campaign ad … together.

    “We are both committed to American civility and a peaceful transition of power.”

    Allahpundit reacts:

    Watching this, the thought occurred to me that maybe … maybe I don’t need to move to Canada after all.

    Maybe I can just move to Utah.

    LOL

    Dave (1bb933)

  88. So asking that the sitting President of the United States be held accountable for his words and actions that have impacted Americans during his tenure is ridiculous. I didn’t expect that. I would I hope that Americans everywhere would want each and every sitting President of the United States to be held to account for everything they do during their tenure.

    Dana (6995e0) — 10/20/2020 @ 11:04 pm

    Christianity Today to those supporting Donald Trump:
    “With profound love and respect, we ask our brothers and sisters in Christ to consider whether they have given to Caesar what belongs only to God: their unconditional loyalty.”

    [T]he facts in this instance are unambiguous: The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents. That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral.

    The reason many are not shocked about this is that this president has dumbed down the idea of morality in his administration. He has hired and fired a number of people who are now convicted criminals. He himself has admitted to immoral actions in business and his relationship with women, about which he remains proud. His Twitter feed alone—with its habitual string of mischaracterizations, lies, and slanders—is a near perfect example of a human being who is morally lost and confused.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  89. On Sunday, in Carson City, Nevada, Trump regaled his audience with an in-depth analysis of America’s toilet flushing crisis:

    DONALD TRUMP: Getting back to my very boring story about faucets and dishwasher. So I said to the head, I called up– great dishwasher company from Ohio that we saved, by the way. I said, what’s the problem with your dishwasher?

    Well, they don’t give us any water. I mean, you know, it’d be nice to be able to get enough water. What’s the problem? We need more water. Not that much.

    Like, I said, how much you need? This– would you like more? Well, I’d love more. Would you give us– well, yeah, I’ll give you more. You have so much water you don’t know what to do with it, right? So we gave them what they need. And now the dishwashers are incredible. They work beautifully.

    And you go one time, and you come back, and your dishes are nice and beautiful and clean and dry. You don’t have to go 10 times. The same thing with the restrictors in the faucet. So I hate to say the three things. It’s the shower. It’s the sink. And you know the third element in the bathroom. But I don’t say it because every time I say it, they only talk about that one because it’s sort of gross to talk about, right?

    So I won’t I won’t talk about the fact that people have to flush their toilet 15 times. OK? I will not talk about it. I’ll only talk about showers and– OK? But there is three things. I won’t talk about it. This way, they can’t report it.

    So what happens? So what happens, I call my environmental people. Why are we doing this? Because when you wash your hands, it takes you five times longer. You know, the water’s [INAUDIBLE]. You get soap. You can’t get it off. I said, open it up. They said, what do you mean? Take the restrictors off.

    People know. And if you’re out here, you’ve got to be careful, and you got to do all the things you’ve been doing anyway. Take the restrictors off. And you may leave it in certain areas where you might need it. But most of the country– big portion, it doesn’t need it.

    Then on the shower, the worst. You ever get under a shower where no water comes out? And me, I want that hair to be so beautiful. [INAUDIBLE]. I want the hair to look good. I go into some of these hotels– you know, you travel. I go into these hotels, new hotels. They do a nice job. It’s not their fault. And I get in there. I say, Oh, I can look at it now. I know they– everything.

    I say, Oh, here we go. Turn on the water. Drip, drip, drip, [INAUDIBLE] drip, drip. But now you go into a shower, and the water pours out. You go into a sink, and you can wash your hands very nicely. Beautiful. And the third thing to worry about, OK, we won’t talk about. Just one time. That’s all.

    How epic would it be if, on Thursday, Biden could use some casual, throwaway line about water conservation to goad Trump into dumping this tsunami of mental diarrhea on top of 70+ million teevee viewers?

    Dave (1bb933)

  90. From 2013 to 2015, Donald Trump paid almost $189,000 in taxes.

    To Communist China…

    Between 2011 and 2014, he paid no federal income tax to the United States at all.

    Dave (1bb933)

  91. Two things can be true at once:

    1) Trump is atrocious, and unfit for the Presidency.

    2) The media by and large has a significant leftist bias.

    One need not argue against #2 to make the case for #1.

    norcal (a5428a)

  92. Trump, apparently knows very little about the regular people west of the Missouri. We have water problems. West Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, E. Washington, E. Oregon, California. We have water problems. A lot of places even E. of the Missouri have water problems, brackish, marshy, industrial waste. There are reasons we have low-flow plumbing fixtures.

    And You know, I don’t have any trouble with my dishwasher or toilet or sink or shower. I have never had to flush the toilet 15 times in my life. That’s just not healthy. I think he needs more fiber in his diet.

    Nic (896fdf)

  93. Then let’s hope one of Thursday’s debate topics will be management of the strategic psyllium reserve.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  94. mr. president donald trump, who is not the kind of girl who gives up just like that, said that the interview was unfair

    that’s all anybody needs to know
    nk (1d9030) — 10/20/2020 @ 10:16 pm

    But the “tide was high”, and Trump was barely “holdin’ on.” Y’know, he needed to take a “#1.” That’s why he left.

    felipe (023cc9)

  95. The walls were closing in, felipe. Dame la paciencia.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  96. Cbs was so perturbed they needed a third party to tell the tale, microagression y’all.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  97. “I’m beginning to suspect this guy isn’t as smart as he’s led us to believe…”

    Dana, you have to know that I love and respect you. You are the best of us who populate this blog. (No disrespect to Patterico, our gracious host.) I mean no criticism or derision, certainly no insult, but that statement is beneath you. I know you were being polite in your phrasing, but “I’m beginning to suspect” is not the proper wording. “It’s an absolute certainty” would have been more appropriate.

    Trump paid a smarter student to take his entrance exam for him. He had his sister do his homework for him. This guy is a total fraud. Everything about him is a lie.

    Compare him to my grandfather, who incidentally started a real estate company that catered to elderly people wanting to sell their homes after retirement.

    My grandfather dropped out of school after the third grade. He went to work, plowing fields with an ox. (He had to take care of that ox, otherwise he couldn’t work.) While he gave most of his money to support the family, he saved enough for himself. He walked into the San Antonio Business School, passed the entrance exam, graduated and became a bank manager.

    Do you know how he able to do that? He helped his sisters, who were all in Catholic school, do their homework. He studied for every quiz and exam. In other words, he received an education without attending class, because he was out plowing fields. He also read everything he could get his hands on.

    A 3rd grade drop out getting into business school, can you imagine that? He worked the fields with an ox for over ten years. But yet he’s able to pass an entrance exam, graduate with a degree, and become a bank manager.

    Does anyone think that Donald Trump is capable of doing anything like that? No, of course not, he’s an absolute failure as a businessman. He couldn’t even get into college without help. And every business venture he ever started has ended in bankruptcy. Except for Elite Encounters, an escort service through which he imported his third wife, who worked illegally as an illegal immigrant as a model, and did soft porn.

    It’s all so disgusting. The depravity, the corruption, the ruin. Everything Trump is tied up with is downfall. Over 220,000 dead, and he’s still holding happy rallies?

    This is all a joke, because Trump has never been anything other than a joke. He’s a complete failure as a businessman, a man, and as a president. That needs to be called out loud and clear.

    Of course he walked out of the interview. He can’t answer serious questions. Those might be simple questions, such as “what is your plan?” He doesn’t have one other than his own self-aggrandizement.

    There has never been a president more unfit for office than this one. And the Republicans need to acknowledge it. Otherwise, they will all be complicit in the ruin and bankruptcy of the country. In which case, they should all be voted out of office.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  98. I would like to know why Trump can’t be judged and held to account for his own independent actions and why he/they must be tied to Biden? Biden hasn’t been in charge for the past 3-plus years. Biden hasn’t been a part of the decision-making of this administration, nor has he had any influence on specific situations (that we know of anyway). It wasn’t a partnership between Trump and Biden.

    I think Trump is scare of being found out. But what he misses is that he already has been found out. We already know he’s screwed up a number of situations, we already know his character flaws, his corruption, etc., and we already know that he’s worried and afraid that he will lose the election. And when Trump is fearful (usually manifested as anger), he lashes out. Thus his attack on Lesley Stahl, pre-emptive strikes, and efforts to discourage people from watching the interview. If he frames her as some sort of unfair, out-to-get-him loser , then maybe people won’t watch the interview. And maybe they won’t hear what she puts to him, and how he is unable to thoughtfully respond. Two weeks out from the election and he is walking out of an important interview.

    Of course, he can still blame the whole thing on Hillary.

    Dana (6995e0) — 10/20/2020 @ 11:16 pm

    They don’t love Trump because of the results. They love him because he hates the people they hate. He ‘fights’ with the media whom they feel is picking on them. Patterico has done countless posts about the inaccuracy of the media and how bias accounts for much of that error. But people who think like this (such as BnP) didn’t care about accuracy and honesty. They cared that their team was being treated unfairly. At this point is an axiom independent of evidence.

    For example, here’s an interview Biden gave a Wisconsin affiliate where they ask the accusations about Hunter Biden. It’s their last question, and they push to extend the interview to get it in. Seemed like a fair interview. They got 4 questions

    1. Do you think you’ll win this state? Easy since he’s up but a typical opener.
    2. What would you do about CV19? Fair question, Trump struggles with this.
    3. What do you think about the time limit on the debate? Not tough, but it’s been in the news a lot this week. I wouldn’t have bothered to ask it.
    4. What is your response to the accusations against Hunter Biden by Senator Johnson? Tough question, her framing ignore the NYP story and makes it clear that accusations are coming from someone credible.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  99. You can watch the joint Utah governor’s race ad here, without needing to join HotAir.

    nk (1d9030)

  100. Also, it’s smart of Trump to make sure there’s a TON of coverage about his 60 minutes interview. If he truly had a melt down or if it’s calculated to increase attention the results will be the same. More people watching his part of 60 minutes. I haven’t watched 60 minutes in years. I wasn’t even aware it was still a show. But I might check this one out just to see what the fuss is about. Trump loves attention so maybe that’s what he wants.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  101. he got brass in pocket, mr. felipe

    got bottle, he gonna use it

    intention, he feel inventive

    gonna make us, make us, make us notice

    nk (1d9030)

  102. But people who think like this (such as BnP) didn’t care about accuracy and honesty. They cared that their team was being treated unfairly.

    Time123, I think there’s a blog rule here about attributing views to commenters that they don’t have. But don’t worry, it’s not enforced against Trump critics, so you and Dana are free to keep doing it.

    The national media should be pressing both candidates on their political positions and political history, whether it’s 47 years long or 4. They aren’t, and they usually have not ever — going back many decades and many elections. It’s been called out here many times, and doesn’t suddenly cease to be a problem simply because the Republican this time is someone you don’t like or think is dishonest.

    It’s really not complicated.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  103. so lesley stahls minitrue bulletin is not to be accepted as holy writ, sad really, now facebook has a loaded deck, with a former biden adviser on central asian affairs, as content adviser, (nothing to see here) twitter has decidedly to wholesale import chinese propaganda techniques,) proving themselves more evil than google less than Disney.

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  104. But people who think like this (such as BnP) didn’t care about accuracy and honesty. They cared that their team was being treated unfairly.

    Time123, I think there’s a blog rule here about attributing views to commenters that they don’t have. But don’t worry, it’s not enforced against Trump critics, so you and Dana are free to keep doing it.

    Beer and Pretzels, You’re right. There is. I think it’s a fair characterization of your position. But since you’re disputing it I’ll accept that I’m wrong; I’m sorry I misunderstood and mischaracterized your point of view. The error is mine and I’ll try not to make the same mistake again. Corrected comment is below.

    Please let me know if this apology isn’t sufficient.

    Moving on from that I’ll point out that there was a reporter yesterday asking Biden exactly the question you wanted asked. You can see his response at the link.

    I would like to know why Trump can’t be judged and held to account for his own independent actions and why he/they must be tied to Biden? Biden hasn’t been in charge for the past 3-plus years. Biden hasn’t been a part of the decision-making of this administration, nor has he had any influence on specific situations (that we know of anyway). It wasn’t a partnership between Trump and Biden.

    I think Trump is scare of being found out. But what he misses is that he already has been found out. We already know he’s screwed up a number of situations, we already know his character flaws, his corruption, etc., and we already know that he’s worried and afraid that he will lose the election. And when Trump is fearful (usually manifested as anger), he lashes out. Thus his attack on Lesley Stahl, pre-emptive strikes, and efforts to discourage people from watching the interview. If he frames her as some sort of unfair, out-to-get-him loser , then maybe people won’t watch the interview. And maybe they won’t hear what she puts to him, and how he is unable to thoughtfully respond. Two weeks out from the election and he is walking out of an important interview.

    Of course, he can still blame the whole thing on Hillary.

    Dana (6995e0) — 10/20/2020 @ 11:16 pm

    They don’t love Trump because of the results. They love him because he hates the people they hate. He ‘fights’ with the media whom they feel is picking on them. Patterico has done countless posts about the inaccuracy of the media and how bias accounts for much of that error. But people who think like this don’t care about accuracy and honesty. They care that their team was being treated unfairly. At this point is an axiom independent of evidence.

    For example, here’s an interview Biden gave a Wisconsin affiliate where they ask the accusations about Hunter Biden. It’s their last question, and they push to extend the interview to get it in. Seemed like a fair interview. They got 4 questions

    1. Do you think you’ll win this state? Easy since he’s up but a typical opener.
    2. What would you do about CV19? Fair question, Trump struggles with this.
    3. What do you think about the time limit on the debate? Not tough, but it’s been in the news a lot this week. I wouldn’t have bothered to ask it.
    4. What is your response to the accusations against Hunter Biden by Senator Johnson? Tough question, her framing ignore the NYP story and makes it clear that accusations are coming from someone credible.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  105. I mean james comey should be embarassed he was lugging around gossip from a suspected russian spy. Can we make kafka orwell and wells, fiction again,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  106. so I’m still stuck on no 2, masks weren’t an answer, and the entirety of his political party were opposed to most obvious containment methods, I know it doesn’t fit on the cue card.

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  107. @99. Thank you for sharing the comparison with your grandfather. Hold our p*ssy-grabber-in-chief against anyone with an ounce of integrity and he looks pathetic. He’s asked a few challenging questions for a change and he gets huffy and stalks off in high dudgeon. “But he fights!” Or so his worshippers are fond of saying. Yeah, right.
    I’d be the first to say that Biden is less than an ideal candidate, but the alternative is that man-baby. (And yes, Hunter Biden’s life is a mess, but he’s not running for president.)

    Roger (83ed7d)

  108. Time123, as you note, it was reporter with a Wisconsin affiliate. Well, okay. The national media is a joke, and I noted “national media” in my comment for a reason. For any other Republican, it would be called out here.

    And, thank you for your correction. Much appreciated. We differ on a lot of things, but you seem like a decent fellow.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  109. 45 minutes, the man has the patient of a saint.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  110. Beer and Pretzels, You’re right. There is.

    I agree. It is the rule and it applies to everyone. If it is not always enforced, I think it is because no one was available to moderate. But self-moderation is the best option and thanks to Time123 for doing that.

    As for the national media, there is bias toward the Left but I think there are people willing to ask hard questions of candidates. Most politicians avoid them like the plague (should I say Covid?) or deflect/refuse to give straightforward answers.

    DRJ (aede82)

  111. #112

    OK — why did Bolivia reelect socialists? That cartoon is explicit, without being explicit…I don’t think there is a question of election fraud this time around.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  112. Morales destroyed much of the economy and the lockdown did the rest.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  113. I think there’s a blog rule here about attributing views to commenters

    BNP,

    I think you should apply this rule to yourself. When I answered your question if biden had taken hostile questions, I provided an example, then another. Instead of responding politely that you had a reason to think they weren’t challenging, you repeatedly claimed I was raising the white flag. That is attributing a view to me that you know isn’t true. It’s also obnoxious to ignore evidence you asked for while complaining the people you disagree with aren’t being moderated.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  114. Theres no hostility there, unlike savanna guthries melissa click tirade.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)


  115. Jonathan Karl
    @jonkarl
    ·
    At a fundraiser tonight, @KamalaHarris played trivia and answered questions from the cast of The Avengers.

    And with that, the Democratic VP nominee has now taken more questions from cast of The Avengers than from the traveling press covering her campaign. (h/t @MissBeaE)
    __ _

    Everything will be better soon.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  116. Dustin, I don’t wish for anyone to get moderated. I’m against that generally, but it’s not my blog.

    Let’s see if Stahl challenges both equally. I had no plans to watch. I didn’t even know she was still with us. It’s fair to say that neither you nor I can use it as an example having not seen it. That’s why I mentioned the white flag. I was asking for a known example. You didn’t provide one. Seems simple to me.

    My opinion is informed by how Trump has been challenged regularly by the media, and Biden has not. As to what informs your opinion, I have no idea.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  117. Interesting

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/21/secret-service-travel-records-confirm-hunter-biden-trips-detailed-in-emails/

    The simpler explanation that mary o grady offered is the governing party split but the results are the same.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  118. Re the results in bolivia,

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  119. Morality is a transient:

    ‘Pope Francis endorsed same-sex civil unions for the first time as pope while being interviewed for the feature-length documentary “Francesco,” which had its premiere at the Rome Film Festival on Wednesday.’ – source, Chicago Sun Times

    … and Galileo smiled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  120. So the question of whether the pope is famiar with scripture is no longer rhetorical.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  121. Dana (6995e0) — 10/20/2020 @ 11:16 pm

    I would like to know why Trump can’t be judged and held to account for his own independent actions

    He can be. I don’t deny that. The topic of this post is an example of him handling the press badly. He generally handles the press badly.

    (*disclaimer*) The following section contains general comments not directed at any specific individual or comment. It is not intended as a personal attack. (*disclaimer*)

    But more generally what does “held to account” mean and is the judgment objective. How many comments follow the pattern of A: Trump could have done better B: How? A: Anything would have been better and he should be impeached? That’s an exagerated example but not by much. It’s also not objective and people pointing that out aren’t denying he can’t be judged, i.e. criticism of the comment isn’t a defense of Trump, it’s a criticism of the argument. This is unfortunatly a common pattern.
    (*disclaimer*) The previous section contains general comments not directed at any specific individual or comment. It is not intended as a personal attack. (*disclaimer*)

    So, other than agreeing that he did a bad job here, and does a bad job generally with the press, what are you looking for? If every post was “look at the stupid thing Trump did” and every comment was “yep. that was really stupid” we’d have a boring comment section.

    and why he/they must be tied to Biden?

    We probably won’t agree on this but it’s difficult to judge the performance of Trump in isolation. I don’t see this done well on either side. The anti-Trump side attempts it but, again, this often ends with “anything would have been better”. Most judgments are comparisons of some sort and this is usually in the form of the hypothetical. Biden gets pulled in because he’s being offered as the alternative.

    Biden hasn’t been in charge for the past 3-plus years. Biden hasn’t been a part of the decision-making of this administration, nor has he had any influence on specific situations (that we know of anyway). It wasn’t a partnership between Trump and Biden.

    No, but he’s saying that if we put him in charged it would be an improvement going forward and, more importantly, he has said that if he had been in charge things would have been better. Even if that claim isn’t being explictly made it’s reasonable to do this sort of comparison anyway.

    frosty (f27e97)

  122. That is attributing a view to me that you know isn’t true.

    No, not even close. I didn’t say you believe X when you actually believe Y. You were making a statement of fact, which I disputed.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  123. I was listening the other day to an NPR discussion of the Senate race in North Carolina. A couple of events have happened in that race that should have shaken it up. Tillis (Republican) tested positive for COVID after attending the White House susperspreader party. And the Democrat has been having an affair complete with sexting, that’s now revealed.

    But there has been almost no movement. Why? Well, the Senate race is about what people think about Trump and that’s not changing.

    This Hunter Biden stuff is much the same. If the meeting happened, is it all that different than the meeting DJT Jr arranged for his father with the Russian lady who promised Biden dirt? Trump has done a lot of corrupt stuff over time. Why should an allegation re Biden from the crack team of Giuliani and Bannon (Ukraine dirt while you wait) make any impact?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  124. Oh my. ‘Conservatives for Biden’ defending my beloved CBS?!?!

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  125. Oddly, when Clinton was president, the press asked him constantly about diddling the intern but never asked Republicans the same question.

    Why do you suppose that was? Was it anti-Dem bias?

    Of course not. They asked Clinton about diddling the interns because there was credible evidence that he had done so.

    Likewise with Trump, he is the one on tape explaining how he misrepresented the seriousness of the virus. He is the one slandering the expert immunologists. He is the one holding super-spreader events and telling people not to protect themselves, their families and their neighbors.

    Biden has done none of those things; that’s why he doesn’t get asked “tough questions” about them.

    Likewise, questions to Trump about his own corrupt financial history are not analogous to questions to Biden about his son’s business partners and bohemian escapades. The analogy to questions about Hunter would be questions to Trump about Nepotism Barbie and her complete lack of any qualifications to hold a West Wing position, his wife’s p*rn career, the sexual harassment and abuse charges against his son’s concubine, etc. Notice that nobody asks Trump about those things.

    Dave (1bb933)

  126. They don’t love Trump because of the results. They love him because he hates the people they hate. He ‘fights’ with the media whom they feel is picking on them.

    Yep. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn’t: but it’s GOP 101:

    ‘ANNOY THE MEDIA—RE-ELECT BUSH was a popular bumper sticker in 1992—Bush backers even charged through the media center at the Republican National Convention shouting the slogan.’ -source, newsweek.com

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. We probably won’t agree on this but it’s difficult to judge the performance of Trump in isolation.

    No it’s not. His corruption stands alone. As does his terrible response on CV19. As does his progress on getting a few Islamic countries in the ME to recognize Israel. As does his terrible performance with Norther Syria/the Kurds.

    You can make a case that the viable alternatives would be worse so you should vote Trump anyway.
    You can also make a case that it’s a good trade for other goals such as judges.
    But that’s not the same as defending him.

    You might be right that there wouldn’t be much to talk about if everyone admitted how bad Trump is. But everyone here loves to argue. I’m sure time would be usefully spent on smaller differences. As evidence there’s the discussion I had with Patterico yesterday. I mostly agree with him but think he’s missing an important part of the situation so I brought that up.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  128. 130.Oddly, when Clinton was president, the press asked him constantly about diddling the intern but never asked Republicans the same question.

    Would that be ‘reporter,’ Eleanor Mondale?

    Women reporters wore red dresses for him. Guess why.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  129. BDG, Savannah Guthrie ain’t Melissa Click until Al Roker, Lester Holt and Mike Tirico tackle POTUS on promise of free food.

    urbanleftbehind (f8bf59)

  130. Time123, I think there’s a blog rule here about attributing views to commenters that they don’t have. But don’t worry, it’s not enforced against Trump critics, so you and Dana are free to keep doing it.

    Beer and Pretzels, You’re right. There is.

    There is? Nobody tells me anything. Well, as far as I’m concerned, please feel free to characterize my view of Trump as the skidmark on Uncle Sam’s jockey shorts any time.

    nk (1d9030)

  131. Time123, I think there’s a blog rule here about attributing views to commenters that they don’t have. But don’t worry, it’s not enforced against Trump critics, so you and Dana are free to keep doing it.

    Beer and Pretzels, You’re right. There is.

    There is? Nobody tells me anything. Well, as far as I’m concerned, please feel free to characterize my view of Trump as the skidmark on Uncle Sam’s jockey shorts any time.

    nk (1d9030)

  132. Appalled (1a17de) — 10/21/2020 @ 8:07 am

    But there has been almost no movement. Why?

    Yep.

    Democrat has been having an affair complete with sexting

    Already baked in. Given how often this happens it’s reasonable to assume it’s the norm.

    (Republican) tested positive for COVID after attending the White House

    Already baked in. Part of the R’s messaging is COVID isn’t out of control now. R’s see these candidates and staff getting it with little or no effect and it confirms that. D’s see COVID spreading and R’s not taking it seriously and it confirms that.

    frosty (f27e97)

  133. it bears repeating mr nk

    Dave (1bb933)

  134. Trump left the cameras about 45 minutes into the interview. Trump recorded the interview also, and now threatens to release the entire interview before CBS releases what they will broadcast, both to show what they cut out (the 60 Minutes technique is to ask a lot of more or less friendly questions they aren’t interested in and then to spring the accusatory ones.

    Was the thing that caused him to walk out a question about his rhetoric about Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, which could sound like he was endorsing a crime or a revolution?

    The Wall Street Journal managed to criticize her overreach without that and then distinguish their criticism from what some people were contemplating trying to do.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-end-to-michigans-endless-emergency-11601843838

    Michigan’s one-woman rule is no more. When the coronavirus hit the state this spring, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer drew complaints for the seemingly arbitrary nature of her lockdown orders. Stores were told to cordon off nonessential sections. You could buy lottery tickets, but not paint or gardening supplies.

    Those rules have eased, but Ms. Whitmer extended Michigan’s state of emergency again last week, this time through Oct. 27. In a Friday opinion that limits the Governor’s emergency powers, the Michigan Supreme Court quoted Montesquieu: “When the legislative and executive powers are united in the same person, or in the same body of magistrates, there can be no liberty.”

    Ms. Whitmer, a Democrat, has acted under two state laws. The Emergency Management Act lets the Governor declare a disaster, but only for 28 days unless a longer period is approved by the Legislature. In this case, Republican lawmakers declined to authorize any declaration past April 30. Ms. Whitmer’s response, the high court said in its opinion, was to end the first emergency and immediately declare a new one “for the identical reasons.”

    The law says the Governor “shall” issue a declaration “if he or she finds that an emergency has occurred,” so Ms. Whitmer argued, as the court explained it, that she “had no choice here but to redeclare a state of emergency.” But as Justice Stephen Markman wrote for a unanimous court on this point, “To allow such a redeclaration would effectively render the 28-day limitation a nullity.”

    A second state law, the Emergency Powers of the Governor Act, says Ms. Whitmer can take “reasonable” action as needed “to protect life and property or to bring the emergency situation within the affected area under control.” As an illustration of its scope, the court said that Ms. Whitmer’s orders have required residents to stay home; mandated masks; forced the closure of churches, cafes, salons, gyms, schools, libraries and so forth; prohibited nonessential travel; and barred private gatherings between people from different households.

    Unlike the other law, this one includes no specific time limitation, so in theory the Governor’s emergency powers could continue indefinitely. “Almost certainly,” Justice Markman wrote for the majority, “no individual in the history of this state has ever been vested with as much concentrated and standardless power to regulate the lives of our people, free of the inconvenience of having to act in accord with other accountable branches of government.” In a 4-3 vote, the court struck down the statute as “an unlawful delegation of legislative power” under Michigan’s constitution.

    Credit to the plaintiffs—a group of health providers and a patient needing knee surgery—for challenging the Governor’s initial ban on nonessential procedures, as well as to the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, which provided legal firepower.

    What now? “Representative democracy should not go away in a crisis—that’s exactly when it’s needed most,” the Detroit News said last week. If Ms. Whitmer isn’t on the phone with lawmakers “to begin working on a plan for cooperatively managing Michigan through the pandemic, she’s derelict in her duty.”

    There’s little sign she cares to deal with the Legislature. “It is important to note that this ruling does not take effect for at least 21 days,” the Governor said Friday. “Many of the responsive measures I have put in place to control the spread of the virus will continue under alternative sources of authority that were not at issue in today’s ruling.” What was it again that Lord Acton said about absolute power?

    After the FBI broke the news of the plot against her, the Wall St Journal wrote, in part:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-plot-against-gretchen-whitmer-11602199047

    Ms. Whitmer has exceeded her legal authority in the pandemic, and often in arrogant fashion. But the recourse for her critics is politics and the law, not violence and kidnapping. The Michigan Supreme Court proved that point last week by ruling that Ms. Whitmer violated state law in redeclaring the same pandemic emergency after 28 days without the consent of the Legislature.

    This shouldn’t be a political story. And though Ms. Whitmer is a Democrat, leaders of the GOP Legislature didn’t mince words. “A threat against our Governor,” the Senate Majority Leader said, “is a threat against us all.”

    For her part, Ms. Whitmer thanked law enforcement. Then she couldn’t resist essentially blaming the plot on President Trump. At last week’s debate, she said, he “refused to condemn white supremacists and hate groups, like these two Michigan militia groups.”

    But Trump has to play to the crowd.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  135. WordPress must have liked it, too, because I did nothing different to make it appear twice.

    nk (1d9030)

  136. To understand 60 Minutes, you have to understand its creator, the late, great Don Hewitt.

    An ‘airline seat pocket magazine’ for broadcast; purposely designed and produced as a mix of entertainment and news; ‘info-news.’ Hewitt summed it up w/four words: “Tell me a story.” And the ‘stories’ aren’t necessarily packed full of ‘news’ and can become stories themselves. Carsn;Len Horne, the Clinton light rescue; the tobacco piece come to mind.

    Trump does 60 Minutes for the same reason he did Saturday Night Live.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  137. Oddly, when Clinton was president, the press asked him constantly about diddling the intern but never asked Republicans the same question.
    Why do you suppose that was? Was it anti-Dem bias?

    Oddly, Michael Isikoff had the story but it was spiked by Newsweek, and Drudge was born.

    Great example, Dave.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  138. None of it matters anymore.

    Pat Robertson just revealed that God told him that Trump will win. For sure. And then there will be civil unrest and assassination attempts, followed by a major meteor strike. Dang.

    I don’t presume to tell God who he can or cannot talk to, but this prediction does seem somewhat dubious. If God doesn’t mind, I would respectfully suggest that we all vote to prevent that first domino from falling.

    noel (9fead1)

  139. Trump would love that noel, because he’d get to nuke the meteor.

    *ka-POOOOH*

    Dave (1bb933)

  140. Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/21/2020 @ 8:18 am

    No it’s not. His corruption stands alone. As does his terrible response on CV19. As does his progress on getting a few Islamic countries in the ME to recognize Israel. As does his terrible performance with Norther Syria/the Kurds.

    You’re giving examples that don’t support your point. His covid response was terrible only compared to some other set of responses. There was no version of zero deaths and COVID not happening. So, any analysis has to postulate a series of decisions that would have resulted in less than 200k dead. The ME comment isn’t a criticism unless you are saying it’s terrible only because more didn’t recognize Israel. This is a case where there is a version of zero and so every case of a country normalizing realtions with another and moving toward peace is an improvement. The Syria/Kurds issue is a case of no good option in my opinion.

    And I know this is wasting electrons but my comment about his covid response or the kurds or whatever isn’t an attempt to say he did a good job or to defend him. What I’d like to do is talk about what would be good response to covid or the kurds. But we stopped being able to do that a long time ago. Even if I agreed with everything you said here’s how it would go: “me: so, now what”, the response would be “get rid of Trump”, “me: and then what”, and it would be crickets. We’re stuck in the Underpants Knome dilemma.

    frosty (f27e97)

  141. In the United States, any undelegated intrinsic powers of government belong to the state legislatures. They are constrained by the federal and state constitutions.

    —————————-

    There were also cameras in the White House. Apparently they show Leslie Stahl without a mask, and the point is that she was badgering him about masks. Now she may not need to wear a mask anymore if she has recovered from the coronavirus.

    This was actually good debate prep for Trump. Not so good if he didn’t try to answer a question. Or at least go back and talk it over with a few people.

    Dana (6995e0) — 10/20/2020 @ 9:50 pm

    And Trump can’t figure out why America doesn’t want him around any longer? I’m beginning to suspect this guy isn’t as smart as he’s led us to believe…

    I think he;s probably shockingly ignorant, saved somewhat by the quality of his appointees (especially Senate confirmed ones) and by his caution. He lets thing simmer awhile and judges by the kinds of reactions he gets to ideas. Sometimes, as with cutting off aid to Ukraine he’s more stubborn because he thinks he knows something, but he came around on that, too, once it became known and he realized how many people were against that.

    Of course, his caution also prevents him from doing something really good. Therefore, still too slow on anti-Covid antibodies. He’s not so cautious on something that plays to his rhetoric.

    Also, he is not so smart because seems to have trouble comprehending new things..

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  142. @145 I also want to point out is that the “metric” for arguing whether nor not the Trump administration’s response to the pandemic is the number of deaths.

    Right?!?

    Pepperidge Farm remembers that scientists warned that at worst, we’d be seeing deaths in more than 2 million had we done nothing.

    During the taskforce in those early days, Dr. Brix predicts up to 200,000 U.S. coronavirus deaths ‘if we do things almost perfectly‘:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dr-deborah-birx-predicts-200-000-deaths-if-we-do-n1171876

    Those were the initial accepted estimates.

    Yet, here we are that we have Trump critics doing everything they can to lay the real death numbers solely on Trump’s feet.

    Why?

    Because politics.

    whembly (c30c83)

  143. Morality is a transient:

    I’ll be waiting for the pope to make a statement against honesty, integrity, compassion, charity, etc.

    Radegunda (1b54d4)

  144. Time123, I think there’s a blog rule here about attributing views to commenters that they don’t have. But don’t worry, it’s not enforced against Trump critics, so you and Dana are free to keep doing it.

    Where did I attribute views to you that you don’t have?

    Dana (6995e0)

  145. 130. Dave (1bb933) — 10/21/2020 @ 8:15 am

    he is the one on tape explaining how he misrepresented the seriousness of the virus.

    No, he is on record as not raising the alarm about how things could go wrong. It was not a “fact” he knew. At that time, the CDC was claiming they could keep it from becoming endemic in the United States.

    Trump was not hiding how bad the virus would be if it got loose – everybody knew that.

    He is the one slandering the expert immunologists.

    He exaggerates, but it’s more telling the truth than slandering.

    Actually his problem is that he can’t describe well how they got things wrong.

    He is the one holding super-spreader events and telling people not to protect themselves, their families and their neighbors.

    Potential super spreader events. Not every potential one turns into one in the end.

    Very slow to realize, or not realizing at all, that things were changing and there was an upsurge in cases, and that it was getting more risky, and that the protocol he had compromised on wasn’t enough. And he probably deviated from that as well on Sept. 25.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  146. You’re giving examples that don’t support your point. His covid response was terrible only compared to some other set of responses. There was no version of zero deaths and COVID not happening. So, any analysis has to postulate a series of decisions that would have resulted in less than 200k dead. The ME comment isn’t a criticism unless you are saying it’s terrible only because more didn’t recognize Israel. This is a case where there is a version of zero and so every case of a country normalizing realtions with another and moving toward peace is an improvement. The Syria/Kurds issue is a case of no good option in my opinion.

    And I know this is wasting electrons but my comment about his covid response or the kurds or whatever isn’t an attempt to say he did a good job or to defend him. What I’d like to do is talk about what would be good response to covid or the kurds. But we stopped being able to do that a long time ago. Even if I agreed with everything you said here’s how it would go: “me: so, now what”, the response would be “get rid of Trump”, “me: and then what”, and it would be crickets. We’re stuck in the Underpants Knome dilemma.

    I didn’t express my point well. His ME work is good. You don’t need to compare it to some hypothetical to rate it.

    We haven’t stopped being able to talk about a good Covid response. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve listed things he did poorly with covid.

    I’m saying that much of what Trumps done, the lying, the corruption, the expansion of executive power, is bad. Not bad relative to some other person, just bad.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  147. @145 I also want to point out is that the “metric” for arguing whether nor not the Trump administration’s response to the pandemic is the number of deaths.

    Right?!?

    Pepperidge Farm remembers that scientists warned that at worst, we’d be seeing deaths in more than 2 million had we done nothing.

    During the taskforce in those early days, Dr. Brix predicts up to 200,000 U.S. coronavirus deaths ‘if we do things almost perfectly‘:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dr-deborah-birx-predicts-200-000-deaths-if-we-do-n1171876

    Those were the initial accepted estimates.

    Yet, here we are that we have Trump critics doing everything they can to lay the real death numbers solely on Trump’s feet.

    Why?

    Because politics.

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/21/2020 @ 9:08 am

    I don’t need to think he’s personally responsible for every death to think that his response demonstrates a failure of leadership.
    Your inability to understand that is frustrating.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  148. @109 Roger, you don’t know the half of it.

    My grandfather was a man, a real man. I mean, who drops out of school after the third grade, goes to work plowing fields with an ox for over ten years, then walks into a business school, passes the entrance exam, gets a degree, and becomes a bank manager?

    His is an incredible story. But there’s more to it than that. He loved his wife. He was so devoted to her that when she was stricken with tuberculosis, he robbed the bank to pay for her lung surgery!

    Yeah, that’s right, he robbed the bank. He was the manager, he had the key, he knew the code to the vault, so he simply walked in, took the money, and paid the doctor in cash. Surprisingly, she survived the operation. I mean, lung surgery is major surgery. But she lived. (In fact, she outlived him.)

    Then my grandfather walked in to the police station and turned himself in. He confessed his crime. He was sentenced to twenty years, but he only served six months. Yeah, everyone knew him–he was the guy they all went to for their home and business loans–and they all understood why he did what he did, it was all to save his wife’s life, so they forgave him. He did confess, after all. (He was a devout Catholic.)

    Out of jail, they certainly wouldn’t allow him to be a bank manager, so he became the manager of the grocery store, where everybody shopped. Then, later, he started his own real estate company.

    Does anyone think Donald Trump is capable of anything like that? He’s a joke. A total fraud and a failure as a man. He would never sacrifice himself for the well-being of his wife. Why should he? To him they’re all disposable. Just trade one in for another.

    That is not a man. It doesn’t even come close to being a gentleman. There are rules that must be followed. These rules do not lead us into the sewer. Trump does.

    And that is a path I choose not to follow.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  149. Sacha Baron Cohen’s “Borat” Sequel Captures Rudy Giuliani on Film Flirting with, Trying to Seduce “Russian Reporter” in Hotel Bedroom

    In the bedroom, [Borat’s on-screen daughter] Tutar (who blossoms from feral animal to sex pot in the course of the film) pushes him down on the bead and starts unbuckling his pants to remove the microphone. It’s quite clear at this point what the intentions are: he thinks they are going to bed. Only Cohen, dressed improbably in a wig and women’s underwear, bursts in and tells Rudy “she’s too old for you, she’s 15!” ([Bulgarian actress] Bakalova is at least 23, don’t worry.) Rudy hightails it out of the suite.

    Dave (1bb933)

  150. @152

    I don’t need to think he’s personally responsible for every death to think that his response demonstrates a failure of leadership.
    Your inability to understand that is frustrating.

    Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/21/2020 @ 9:15 am

    ORLY? Well…you’re in the minority then.

    whembly (c30c83)

  151. Whebly, part of the problem is that in the US we tend to forgive people who are honestly trying to do the right thing and had a poor outcome. For instance a lot of people died in Ohio and Dewine say his support go up. He didn’t have zero deaths, but people liked his response.

    It seems like a lot of people hold trumps denial and excuses against him, and see his puffery about the thing he did do as a sign he’s not serious.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  152. ORLY? Well…you’re in the minority then.

    whembly (c30c83) — 10/21/2020 @ 9:23 am

    No he isn’t. This is exactly what I think and what I’ve said on here. Dave’s said the same. I bet if you asked all the Trump critics here we would agree that people would have died from COVID if anyone was president, but Trump’s awful leadership made things much worse.

    Trump could be cruising to victory if he had just backed Fauci up and been direct about the scope of the problem (which would directly harm his billion dollar revenue stream, so Trump made his choice, us or his pocket).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  153. No, not even close. I didn’t say you believe X when you actually believe Y. You were making a statement of fact, which I disputed.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/21/2020 @ 8:06 am

    No, you didn’t dispute it. you claimed I refused to answer you, when I answered twice. I provided a tough question from a fox news journalist, and I provided this 60 minutes interview, which reported even asked Biden directly about Hunter Biden.

    you ignored this, and refused to address whether or not these showed biden was engaged in interviews better than Trump, and claimed I was refusing to answer you, obnoxiously saying I waived the white flag. I don’t care. say what you want. You guys have every reason to be frustrated and it’s no skin off my ass.

    But when you start whining about people doing what you’re actually doing, that projection annoys me. You seem to put words in people’s mouths.

    Frankly I still can tell you’re a sincere person who doesn’t see what you’re doing. you just automatically fill in the blanks. You think I’m a Biden fan, accountable to you, the leader of this internet, to prove Biden is a great interviewee and leader. It’s absurd, but I can see how being cornered by the election and the awful year makes Trump defense very weird.

    You are legitimately concerned about the MSM’s BS. You think Biden’s going to be a terrible president, doing wrong that impacts you and your country. Those are very reasonable points of view! Lurker showed that if you really look at it, the media actually has been easier on Trump than any other modern politician (only because Trump is so off-the-scales awful it is necessary to shift the moral window).

    But you’d do better by understanding almost everyone voting for biden is really voting against Trump, knowing biden is no peach, knowing the media is biased wildly in both directions, appreciating the few chances these guys get to just tell us what they think, like the chris Wallace debate or this interview. Trump keeps taking that away from us. The media and Biden aren’t to blame!

    Dustin (4237e0)

  154. Time123, I think there’s a blog rule here about attributing views to commenters that they don’t have. But don’t worry, it’s not enforced against Trump critics, so you and Dana are free to keep doing it.

    Again, bnp, where did I do this to you? You have leveled an accusation at me, and I would like to know where I have done this. I went through all of the comments in which we interacted in this thread, and I’m unclear on which ones you are referring to. Please point out where I did in fact misattribute views to you that you don’t have. Thanks.

    Dana (6995e0)

  155. Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/21/2020 @ 9:13 am

    I’m saying that much of what Trumps done, the lying, the corruption, the expansion of executive power, is bad. Not bad relative to some other person, just bad.

    Focusing just on the executive power issue for the moment; are you saying all use of EO’s is bad, all expansions of EO’s, or something else? I don’t think you’re saying the first two. I think I get your point but I’d like to make sure.

    And just to be transparent, part of the reason for the questions is that expansion is an inherently relative term. I’m not trying to play gotcha. Can you see the contradiction there? Can you see how I can say you’ve got a problem with the argument itself independent of the underlying claim? Because this is coming from someone who probably agrees with you on this particular issue.

    frosty (f27e97)

  156. Good comment, Dustin.

    DRJ (aede82)

  157. Does anyone think Donald Trump is capable of anything like that?

    Trump would do everything possible to make someone else pay the price of his misdeeds. We know that because he repeatedly used bankruptcy to push the cost of his bad decisions onto other people, and because he never, ever admits any wrongdoing, though he’s quick to accuse others of sins and crimes.

    When Biden was asked how he would feel if he lost the election, he started by saying (as I recall): “It would mean I was a terrible candidate.”
    Trump, OTOH, has made it clear that he would regard a loss to Biden as someone else’s fault: either “the system is rigged,” or the voters have failed him.

    Biden clearly has his flaws, and he’s said and done some obnoxious things. But it’s a pretty low bar to be a better person than Donald Trump.

    Radegunda (1b54d4)

  158. Here is the WH response to the interview:

    White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows on Wednesday disputed reports that Trump had cut off an interview with “60 Minutes” host Lesley Stahl but accused the veteran television reporter of being “an opinion journalist.”

    “Well, he didn’t walk out,” Meadows said of Trump during an appearance on Fox Business. “The characterization of that, he spent over 45 minutes with Lesley Stahl. I’ve looked at every single minute of the interview and then some. We have tape of every single minute.”

    Following the interview Tuesday, Trump threatened to post footage of it before the news program is scheduled to air it Sunday night on CBS. In a tweet, Trump also called Stahl’s interview “FAKE and BIASED.”

    Meadows appeared to concur with that assessment.

    “Listen, when you have a ’60 Minutes’ reporter, they should be a reporter and not an opinion journalist,” he said. “She came across more like an opinion journalist than a real reporter. Journalism should have standards.”

    Dana (6995e0)

  159. Again, bnp, where did I do this to you?

    You have not, Dana. He’s trolling you. That’s what he does. That’s all he does. Trolls. Disrupts, distracts, deflects, derails. He’s good at it, too, because of the temptation he creates to use him as a foil or straight man when he makes outrageous statements. I often fall into that trap to show off my own bon mots, but never into the trap of taking anything he posts seriously.

    nk (1d9030)

  160. Lurker showed that if you really look at it, the media actually has been easier on Trump than any other modern politician (only because Trump is so off-the-scales awful it is necessary to shift the moral window).

    Yes — Trump says & does things that deviate widely from presidential norms, and things that are just plain nutty, and then the MSM (trying to be objective) will make it sound less weird than what we can hear with our own ears and see with our eyes.

    Radegunda (1b54d4)

  161. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/21/2020 @ 9:53 am

    claimed I was refusing to answer you, obnoxiously saying I waived the white flag

    This seems like a good point. Let’s see where it goes.

    I don’t care. say what you want.

    Oh, ok. That second thing seems to contradict the first but maybe not.

    But when you start whining about people doing what you’re actually doing, that projection annoys me. You seem to put words in people’s mouths.

    This sounds familiar. Let’s see where this goes.

    Frankly I still can tell you’re … you just automatically fill in the blanks … You think … It’s absurd … You are legitimately concerned … You think … you’d do better by understanding …

    Well, that seems to be some sort of loop doing the thing your criticizing while your criticizing it.

    frosty (f27e97)

  162. Dana, your @82 looked to be a direct response to my @78. You wrote:

    So asking that the sitting President of the United States be held accountable for his words and actions that have impacted Americans during his tenure is ridiculous.

    I did not say that or even imply it. What I said was that it was ridiculous to state that Trump wasn’t being held responsible, when he has granted many umpteen hostile interviews and press conferences, taking every conceivable hostile question many times over. It’s ridiculous, when Biden does none of that and the media doesn’t even press him on it.

    You seemed to me to twist it into me wanting Trump to get almost no tough questions, like Biden has. That’s the opposite of what I was saying.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  163. Yes — Trump says & does things that deviate widely from presidential norms, and things that are just plain nutty, and then the MSM (trying to be objective) will make it sound less weird than what we can hear with our own ears and see with our eyes.

    Now do Bush.

    I think we’re pinpointing the divide between Trump supporters and Trump critics. The latter just have really poor memory.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  164. frosty, I’ve already said I’m done exchanging with you. You replied with a week old criticism of Putin or something and you will probably keep ‘getting the last word in’ by insulting me, but just to be extra clear, I’m not reading your comments or responding to you because I think it will just make the blog a miserable place to read.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  165. Dana, your @82 looked to be a direct response to my @78. You wrote:

    So asking that the sitting President of the United States be held accountable for his words and actions that have impacted Americans during his tenure is ridiculous.

    I did not say that or even imply it. What I said was that it was ridiculous to state that Trump wasn’t being held responsible, when he has granted many umpteen hostile interviews and press conferences, taking every conceivable hostile question many times over. It’s ridiculous, when Biden does none of that and the media doesn’t even press him on it.

    You seemed to me to twist it into me wanting Trump to get almost no tough questions, like Biden has. That’s the opposite of what I was saying.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/21/2020 @ 10:39 am

    Well, let’s look at your full 78, in which you say that my asking the question is “ridiculous”:

    It sounds like you are unable to allow the President of the United States to assume responsibility for his own actions, and I wonder why that is.

    It’s as if Biden doesn’t have 48 years of political hackery that he needs to assume responsibility for. I wonder why that is.

    Trump has had umpteen dozen hostile interviews and press conferences in the past several months, and you ask that question? Ridiculous.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/20/2020 @ 10:41 pm

    Dustin then responds to you, as well building on it to make a number of other points at 79:

    BNP’s linking the NY Post because he knows it will get people to react. He claimed biden fell short of Trump on interviews, he was wrong. Biden did this very interview a lot better than Trump did, assuming he didn’t cry and walk out like a little b—-.

    Same reason BNP replied to my prompt examples of Biden’s interviews, including a very hostile Fox News question, as ‘waving the white flag’. He doesn’t need to be right about anything. He just needs to troll the subject in a different direction.

    This is exactly the effect Trump has had on the nation. this is the example of manhood he has set. Never tell the truth. Never improve yourself. Never say you are sorry. Marriage is a lie. Life is cheap.

    The consequences could be profound. Students of history often compare Trump to the worst leaders, but it’s the bigger picture we should study. Democracies do not go to war with other (legitimate) democracies. It’s quite rare at least. And Putin’s disinfo chaos in the elections of France, Germany, the UK, and the USA, as well as the decline in NATO’s alliance, are attacks on democracies being trusted. The consequences could be truly profound. I think it’s ruining the world. I think millions could die.

    Trump being a coward again is just a symptom. It is awful for America to be led by that sh–. It’s harmed us on a number of levels. But also, we don’t really trust our elections anymore. We all are flooded with doubt. We know our way of life is in decline. But even if Hillary had won, even if Biden wins, the damage is not going away with Trump.

    Anyway, hopefully I’m wrong. I hope the United States develops a street smart to lies on the internet, to bastards getting a paycheck out of validating idiots, to bots and trolls. But wherever Iran, North Korea, Russia, and China have its hackers and botnets run from, those places should be craters in the ground.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 10/20/2020 @ 10:46 pm

    I then specifically respond to Dustin (79) at 82:

    79,

    So asking that the sitting President of the United States be held accountable for his words and actions that have impacted Americans during his tenure is ridiculous. I didn’t expect that. I would I hope that Americans everywhere would want each and every sitting President of the United States to be held to account for everything they do during their tenure.

    Dana (6995e0) — 10/20/2020 @ 11:04 pm

    I don’t see that as attributing to you views that you do not hold. And in contrast to you, I haven’t commented that your questions are ridiculous.

    Dana (6995e0)

  166. OK Dana, maybe you can decide whether you were responding to my @78 or not. You refer to it @170 then highlight @79 from Dustin and contend you were specifically replying to him, though he never uses “ridiculous”. I can’t read minds. That said, I do believe you got my meaning totally wrong.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  167. bnp,

    You have intentionally mischaracterized what I said, and the point that I was making – as you full well know. I think in the best interest of the blog and in the interest of civility, I will avoid responding to you, whether directly or indirectly.

    Dana (6995e0)


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