Patterico's Pontifications

10/14/2020

Democrats Smear ACB At Supreme Court Hearings Because Why Not?

Filed under: General — Dana @ 1:58 pm



[guest post by Dana]

How utterly predictable that Democrats willfully ignore Joe Biden’s “offensive” use of the term “sexual preference,” yet take great offense at Amy Coney Barrett using the same term. Was there really any difference in how Biden and ACB deployed the term or were they both using it as synonymous with sexual orientation? I think they were. [Ed. See what I did there? I gave both Biden and ACB the benefit of the doubt because that’s what reasonable people – not weaselly politicians using the hearings as their own personal campaign prop – do.]

I looked to see if Democrats have condemned Joe Biden for this, and so far I’ve come up empty:

Anyway, these double-standard smears only serve to remind us that these hearings are little more than soapbox derbies of a different kind…(the operative word being soapbox). If those who have publicly taken offense at ACB’s use of “sexual preference” haven’t also publicly taken offense at Democratic nominee Joe Biden’s use of the same phrase, then all they have done is to remind us that they should not be taken seriously. Whether elected officials, advocacy groups, or journalists:

Here is a great look at the fraud of this Democratic huff-puffery :

ACB ended up choosing to apologize for her use of the term “sexual preference,” but we’re still waiting on Joe Biden:

And maybe that’s partly why the American public seems to be developing a liking for her:

P.S. Who is Mazie Hirono, the self-proclaimed language police, to tell anyone what is and isn’t offensive, especially those who identify as LGBT?

Untitled

Anyway, this faux-outrage is about as stupid as Lindsey Graham trying to make a joke about segregation. Just stop. People really should take more time to think, and then carefully consider whether opening their big yap is in anyone’s best interest but their own.

–Dana

108 Responses to “Democrats Smear ACB At Supreme Court Hearings Because Why Not?”

  1. Omg, if I were when I am Supreme Empress of the Universe, I would will issue gag orders left and right, 24/7. And I mean “gag” literally.

    Dana (292df6)

  2. Well, ACB could say that she is accounting for those in that alphabet soup that prefer to snip-snip.

    urbanleftbehind (a36e46)

  3. I just want to leave this planet.

    Simon Jester (545ea7)

  4. Conservatives don’t believe medicare is constitutional that is why she would not give an answer. They don’t believe social security is either.

    asset (4d72c3)

  5. The people pushing the smear are also pushing Biden/Harris by any means necessary.
    _

    It votes for the Biden or it gets the riots”
    __ _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  6. Did you miss the time that Hirono asked ACB if she sexually assaulted someone. (I’m paraphrasing).

    whembly (c30c83)

  7. Morning Consult poll: Support to confirm Amy Coney Barrett continues to rise, going from +3 at the end of September to +17 today

    Wholly disagree w/ACB’s mind set toward ‘originalism’ — but do like her. She’s confident, smart and articulate.

    And best of all, she a lady who wears skirts and dresses.

    Expect her to be Chief Justice some day.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  8. @6. Don’t Hawaiians call that going ‘island happy?’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  9. Telling someone a term they used is offensive to some, and explaining why, isn’t exactly a “smear,” is it?

    Dave (1bb933)

  10. Update:

    Ginsburg said it too as recently as 2017.

    Webster’s on-line dictionary just updated the term as ‘offensive’.

    The stacked-deck of Media/Academia completely in the pocket of the Dems but which they (and even some in here) portray as unbiased is a wonder to behold.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  11. Telling someone a term they used is offensive to some, and explaining why, isn’t exactly a “smear,” is it?
    _

    Ya gotta admire the ability to dig deeper with two shovels simultaneous.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  12. Dave,

    I think it is, in that they are selectively choosing who can say it without punishment and who can’t say it and should expect punishment. Further, the context in which ACB said it was in the same manner as Biden – it’s a widely accepted and used synonym for “sexual orientation”. Nothing judgemental about it.

    Dana (292df6)

  13. Their intention was to ascribe to ACB a negative meaning and connotation to a phrase, which wasn’t her intention, and which they did not do with Biden.

    Dana (292df6)

  14. What about “orientation” implies more permanence than “preference”? Neither implies that they can or cannot be changed.

    As soon as those not considered allies start using “orientation” it will also become offensive to many, because the meaning of words no longer matter.

    Bradley Potts (1613d8)

  15. I think it is, in that they are selectively choosing who can say it without punishment and who can’t say it and should expect punishment. Further, the context in which ACB said it was in the same manner as Biden – it’s a widely accepted and used synonym for “sexual orientation”. Nothing judgemental about it.

    I don’t think ACB was punished. She was criticized, and indeed, I think it was silly of Hirono to make an issue of it (if you watch the extended clip, it is actually a small part of her “ACB will overturn Obergefell” schtick, which also involved reciting various Scalia dissents).

    Every moment of this process is political theater, given that the outcome is pre-ordained. I don’t think it was a particularly smart or effective attack by Hirono, who I loathe.

    Suppose a Dem nominee called owning a gun a privilege. I suspect some conservative would call them out for their choice of words. Of course, the understanding that sexual orientation appears to be innate is a relatively recent one that happened during Barrett’s (and our) lifetime.

    I don’t know what Catholics believe these days. Given that the Bible characterizes homosexual relations as sinful, I would think that is inconsistent, on its face, with the holding of Obergefell, and the body of research suggesting that sexual orientation is hard-wired.

    What about “orientation” implies more permanence than “preference”? Neither implies that they can or cannot be changed.

    The word “preference” certainly implies choice to me.

    Dave (1bb933)

  16. Another aspect of this is that confirmation hearings have devolved into nominees refusing to answer one question after another, and attempting to provide as little insight into their thinking and philosophy as possible.

    As a result, opposing senators looking to cast aspersions have to dig up old writings and statements, or closely parse (or distort) words that offer some kind of ambiguity.

    I’m not saying it’s good, just understandable.

    Dave (1bb933)

  17. The whole thing is a tawdry song-and-dance routine that must be played out before a confirmation can happen. It’s not terribly enlightening, and mostly gives slimy politicians the opportunity to grandstand and make their base happy – especially if they’re up for re-election. I understand Bartett’s hesitation – both because she wants to avoid any traps but also because, as a serious jurist, she is – and should be – unwilling to commit to any hypothetical situations.

    Dana (292df6)

  18. verb smear /smir/

    coat or mark (something) messily or carelessly with a greasy or sticky substance.”

    damage the reputation of (someone) by false accusations; slander.

    Eh, either one works.

    Dana (292df6)

  19. All she had to do was answer yes or no to:

    Do you believe the Sun stood still in the sky?
    Do you believe the Catholic inquisition was correct to imprison Galileo for defying church dictum with science?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  20. @Dana, Ric Grenell agrees with you:

    Richard Grenell
    @RichardGrenell
    ·
    Oct 13
    We celebrate her point. It’s amazing. Thank you, ACB!

    It’s only offensive to the ones who love being a victim.

    People like Kyle should stop this dangerous cancel culture. They make everything partisan. It’s unAmerican.

    whembly (c30c83)

  21. Suppose a Dem nominee called owning a gun a privilege. I suspect some conservative would call them out for their choice of words

    The Second Amendment has been around for more than 200 years. The terms that get people cancelled change every year.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  22. I don’t know what Catholics believe these days. Given that the Bible characterizes homosexual relations as sinful

    Dave, looks like you’re not aware that “homosexual” is an offensive term.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  23. Another attempt at gotcha: Ben Sasse asked ACB to name the five things protected under the First Amendment. She missed one. So now the Democrats and media (BIRM) say she is unfit.

    Meanwhile, Joe Biden tells people he’s running for Senate.

    But that’s Joe being Joe.

    What’s the O/U on how many young women get nuzzled without their consent in the Joe Biden White House

    I’m putting at 45.5

    Hoi Polloi (92d467)

  24. Telling someone a term they used is offensive to some, and explaining why, isn’t exactly a “smear,” is it?
    Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2020 @ 2:40 pm

    What the Democrats attempted to do to ACB is a smear.

    I mean, what would you say if the Roman Catholic Church said the ways Democrats described ACB’s faith as offensive? I’m sure you would agree right?

    Hoi Polloi (92d467)

  25. P.S. Who is Mazie Hirono, the self-proclaimed language police, to tell anyone what is and isn’t offensive, especially those who identify as LGBT?

    Well, actually, I’m kind of surprised that Mazie Hirono said “orientation”. The less offensive word is “asiantation”.

    nk (1d9030)

  26. Dana, thank you for #12. THAT is the situation. And it is sad to watch people tap dance to defend it.

    I continue to think that we need the equivalent of “I cut, you choose” to deal with the awful childishness I see in the political theatre. Since ACB is a mother with a large family, I think she is a good choice to deal with this kind of behavior.

    Simon Jester (545ea7)

  27. The whole thing is a tawdry song-and-dance routine that must be played out before a confirmation can happen. It’s not terribly enlightening, and mostly gives slimy politicians the opportunity to grandstand and make their base happy – especially if they’re up for re-election. I understand Bartett’s hesitation – both because she wants to avoid any traps but also because, as a serious jurist, she is – and should be – unwilling to commit to any hypothetical situations.

    As I pointed out in a prior thread, Lincoln nominated Samuel Chase for SCOTUS, and he was confirmed in one day. No hearings, no fuss, no muss.

    Given that hearings today are nothing more than grandstsanding, we should return to that practice. I mean according to Kamala Harris, Lincoln is a model we should all follow.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  28. In some ways, Dana, I am hoping for a Hispanic mother next for SCOTUS.

    https://youtu.be/PSicdnahJ7o

    This was sent to me by a former student, who said that her mother was exactly this way.

    Simon Jester (545ea7)

  29. That’s funny, Simon Jester. It just makes me long for functioning adults in power, but I am realizing those sorts are pretty much in short supply these days.

    Dana (292df6)


  30. Ilya Shapiro
    @ishapiro
    ·
    @maziehirono seems amazed that ACB would apply the law rather than simply ruling for whichever side she considers more sympathetic.
    __ _

    Dan McLaughlin
    @baseballcrank
    ·
    The really astounding thing was how Hirono seemed genuinely baffled by the concept that maybe the job of a judge is not the same as the job of a legislator. As if hearing it for the first time.
    __ _

    Dan McLaughlin
    @baseballcrank
    ·
    Hirono says that a distinction between making policy & reading law is “a fiction” – wholly rejects the idea that judges are not exactly the same as legislators.

    __ _

    If only there were some judges, lawyers or legislators nearby to set her straight…..
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  31. Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/14/2020 @ 4:54 pm

    Given that hearings today are nothing more than grandstsanding, we should return to that practice. I mean according to Kamala Harris, Lincoln is a model we should all follow.

    I wouldn’t count on that. Her supporters engaging in the Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage aren’t fans of Lincoln.

    frosty (f27e97)

  32. In some ways, Dana, I am hoping for a Hispanic mother next for SCOTUS.

    https://youtu.be/PSicdnahJ7o

    This was sent to me by a former student, who said that her mother was exactly this way.
    Simon Jester (545ea7) — 10/14/2020 @ 4:55 pm

    The Wise Latina was not enough for you?

    Hoi Polloi (92d467)

  33. Her supporters tore down a Lincoln statue in Portland this week. They got an FDR statue too.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  34. I favor a Magic 8-ball for SCOTUS.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  35. @31 and @33

    I am aware of that. But at the VP debates, she cited “Honest Abe” and his nomination of Samuel Chase after the election of 1864. (Of course, she neglected to mention that the Senate was not in session before Election Day, so it would have been pointless to nominate anyone. Lincoln nominated Chase the day the Senate came back, and he was confirmed in one day.)

    My point is that if Sen. Harris is citing “Honest Abe” as a model for Supreme Court nominations, we should follow the procedure done then.

    We would not want to cite “Honest Abe” as a model in one breath, and then tear him down the next? That would be, umm, a double standard? Disingenuous? No one would do that, would they?

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  36. The pretend-insulted people described here are dumb. The credulous people described in the last post are dumb. WHY ARE THERE SO MANY IDIOTS?!

    She didn’t use a slur and she didn’t do that thing where someone says homosexual is that weirdly distinct and often very syllabic way to show you that they don’t like gay people and that gay is too casual a word for them to use.

    Nic (896fdf)

  37. The pretend-insulted people described here are dumb. The credulous people described in the last post are dumb. WHY ARE THERE SO MANY IDIOTS?!

    They are NOT dumb. They are dishonest peddlers of faux-insults. This is all about control, not being offended.

    Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. … “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

    Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  38. @37 No, they are dumb. They are so incredibly transparent that no reasonable person wouldn’t see through them and just get mad at such an insulting attempt at deception and that is a DUMB strategy.

    Nic (896fdf)

  39. Grammatically, “preference” implies “innate” more than “orientation” does. Orientation is a deliberate process, a conscious and educated choice and decision, except maybe to homing pigeons. From going to the bathroom to going to the Moon. Preference is what you like, and nobody consciously decides what they are going to like and dislike.

    What we are seeing with Hirono is Newspeak. The words have no meaning in and of themselves. They are only indicia of approved or disapproved political thought.

    I would have given Hirono the fish eye and said “I say ‘preference’, Senator.” But I would not have been there in the first place. Kowtowing to Hirono is a meaningless fleabite to pride compared to the sucking chest wound of abasement required to get a judicial appointment from Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  40. “They are so incredibly transparent that no reasonable person wouldn’t see through them and just get mad at such an insulting attempt at deception”

    The problem is, there are so many unreasonable people out there, and that is who they are playing to.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  41. In any event I stand by my position. Bring back the one-day vote. Or we can call if the Honest Abe rule.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  42. Same carp from 2 years, same mindset from 12 years ago. Shes an unperson so it doesnt matter what we do to them

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  43. I would be more exercised about the smears, but this has all the drama of a Globetrotters-Generals game. They’ll vote her out of committee tomorrow, and she’ll be confirmed shortly thereafter.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  44. Thats not the point, they want to mandate the meaning of reality,

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  45. Thats not the point, they want to mandate the meaning of reality,
    Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 10/14/2020 @ 6:58 pm

    They get to decide when a child is a child.

    They get to decide how much money is too much.

    They get to decide what your child learns in school.

    They get to decide when you can protest something you don’t believe in.

    They are trying to force you to submit.

    Will you?

    Hoi Polloi (92d467)

  46. Its striking how thet arent interested in such issues.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  47. You might wonder what is the real objective

    https://youtu.be/O31AfWoBfaI

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  48. ye gods…

    Adam Housley
    @adamhousley
    · 1h
    From an insider not politically connected: The emails in the NY Post story have been verified — they’re solid. The Vadym Pozharskyi email address has historical data dating back to 2014. Furthermore, it is registered to the address of Burisma.

    yeah, this won’t go away.

    whembly (c30c83)

  49. There’s a reason that from time to time you hear grumbling about “the Gaystapo.”

    JVW (ee64e4)

  50. @45 How long a paragraph do you want on how school boards choose curriculum? NVM, I’ll be short.

    YOUR TOWN ELECTS YOUR SCHOOL BOARD AND YOUR SCHOOL BOARD CHOOSES YOUR CURRICULUM. IT ISN’T SOME FACELESS BUREAUCRAT IN WASHINGTON, IT’S SUZI WHO OWNS THE BEAUTY PARLOR AND JIM WHO IS THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL BANK AND BILL YOUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR. IT IS GODDAMN PEOPLE YOU KNOW

    Are we quite clear now?

    Nic (896fdf)

  51. Also the right wants the. exact. same. thing. you just like their decision points better.

    Nic (896fdf)

  52. I was dissapointed with judge barrett its not a deal breaker but surrendering to the new orthodoxy is not a new look.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  53. Only proles and animals are free, comrades.

    nk (1d9030)

  54. Nic (896fdf) — 10/14/2020 @ 7:41 pm

    YOUR SCHOOL BOARD CHOOSES

    Are we quite clear now?

    Yep. We’re clear. What did Ford say? You can have any color you want as long as it’s black? I also get to choose what I listen to on the radio. I get to freely choose between but rock, bro country, and pop.

    frosty (f27e97)

  55. @54 No. That is also not how it works. There are many companies that offer curriculum. Even the big companies usually publish 2 or 3 different types of curriculum in the same subject area. You can get curriculum from almost every political viewpoint you so choose. You can even get it from the neo-Nazi viewpoint if you look in the right places.

    (my regular radio station used to be alt-rock. They changed their programming back in January and I have no idea WTH they think they are doing now. Also they started stupid prank calls in the morning and who wants to wake up to idiots doing shock-humor to random unsuspecting people? It’s very disappointing but I can’t find a new station that I like either. I might have to -bleh- pay for satellite radio.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  56. Jennifer ‘Vote Early’ Rubin [Washington Post, MSNBC]
    @JRubinBlogger
    ·
    We should never nominate supreme court justice this ignorant about racism, this incurious about the most systematic injustice in the country.
    __ _

    Jennifer ‘Vote Early’ Rubin
    @JRubinBlogger
    ·
    Not sure which is worse, her clueless on basic facts about American life, her contempt for our intelligence, the White senators lack of concern about her cluelessness on race or White reporters failure to see why her answers are devastating. It’s a festival of White Privilege.

    _ _

    These people are absolutely broken.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  57. We cant send her back. You must be in line with the new orthodoxy till tomorrow when its something else.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  58. Aelfred The Great
    @aelfred_D

    For years I said Brave New World beat out 1984 as the best predictor of our present, but between Dictionaries altering definitions within 24 hrs and stealth edits in all media up to and including the NYT/“Paper of Record”, wow was I wrong.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  59. The point is the new orthodoxy we have all always been at war with eurasia.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  60. Education and democracy are not compatible. Teaching children only what the mob wants them to know is not doing them any favors. Teaching them what the government wants them to know will at least give them a chance to become part of the government.

    nk (1d9030)

  61. harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/14/2020 @ 8:42 pm

    Brave New World was wishful thinking. It’s 1984 or Kafka.

    frosty (f27e97)

  62. You are told to despise your parents and their antiquated ways in 1000 different wTs not only in school.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  63. Spartan youths, upon graduation from 13 years of military school, would march ceremonially past the two kings, the senate, and the assembled peers, and shout, ceremonially: “We will be better than you!”

    nk (1d9030)

  64. Whatever happened to the spartans

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  65. Does orientation have theological implications? If you’re arranged in a certain way doesn’t it suggest an orienter? This to me is the irony of “orientation” being more correct than preference in the eyes of those who are not typically religious. That said I do think sexual orientation is hard-wired, not a choice, and not frowned on by God, if God does exist.

    JRH (52aed3)

  66. 64 eventually rome happened to the spartans. Coney barrett gets on supreme court and democrats say well thank you very much sir! May I have another? Al gore’s submission in 2000 is the donor class and DNC’s role model. And AOC don’t you dare lead the democratic party base against us as black older southern democrat women can only save us so many times. Establishment democrats will be very lucky if the worse that happens to them is being primaried! By the way election is only 20 days away and Facebook and twitter are starting early to “deal” with the conservative question.

    asset (d069c1)

  67. Exactly how conservative is Barrett? Inquiring minds want to know.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-conservative-is-amy-coney-barrett/

    We’ve all seen this side show before. Republicans appoint supposedly conservative judges, but once they get on the bench, especially with a lifetime appointment, they suddenly become liberal judges.

    Barrett will not be the conservative firebrand Republicans hope for and Democrats fear most.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  68. Scalia, Alito and Thomas deserve a Mnt. Rushmore monument.

    mg (8cbc69)

  69. Are we quite clear now?
    Nic (896fdf) — 10/14/2020 @ 7:41 pm

    No need to shout. I can hear the protestations of liberal ninnies a mile away. And yes, the Democrats on our local school board are the ones who are pressuring to ensure second graders – yes, second graders – learn about fluid genders before sex education has even started. Are promoting anal sex to middle schoolers. And are now pushing the 1619 Project to be included in American History curricula.

    Why aren’t you shouting about that?

    Hoi Polloi (92d467)

  70. No need to shout. I can hear the protestations of liberal ninnies a mile away. And yes, the Democrats on our local school board are the ones who are pressuring to ensure second graders – yes, second graders – learn about fluid genders before sex education has even started. Are promoting anal sex to middle schoolers. And are now pushing the 1619 Project to be included in American History curricula.

    Why aren’t you shouting about that?

    Hoi Polloi (92d467) — 10/15/2020 @ 4:16 am

    Wierdly none of my kids, who went through 2nd grade somewhat recently had any such indoctrination. Maybe you should build less outrage over Facebook meme’s from Grandma?

    Time123 (306531)

  71. Wierdly none of my kids, who went through 2nd grade somewhat recently had any such indoctrination. Maybe you should build less outrage over Facebook meme’s from Grandma?

    Time123 (306531) — 10/15/2020 @ 4:23 am

    Weirdly, chances are that our kids are not in the same school system. Weirdly, it always seems to be Democrats who want to bring progress to our children’s educational system. And it always seems to center on non-core subjects (ie, not math or science or reading).

    I have no idea why a second grader needs to learn about gender choices at all. Much less before they even understand what gender and sex mean. But hey, we need to let the next generation know that they can be whatever they want to be at that moment, genetics be damned.

    I have no idea why school teachers need to tell kids that anal sex is a good choice for them when exploring their sexuality. Maybe that should be something parents should talk about with their children.

    But then I realize more Democrats don’t trust parents, most likely because they are crappy parents themselves.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  72. Let me be more explicit Hoi, I think you’re peaking out of the blinds at a phantom army that doesn’t exist. What school system are you talking about that has these very horrible policies?

    Time123 (306531)

  73. the same teachers that told their students, to sing to obama, tell me another,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  74. @73, Your comments are more comprehensible in the morning. Do you take your meds first thing in the day?

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  75. Sexuakl preference implies that (at agiven time) some people may have different kinds of sex partners, sexual orientation implies there is only one, and if someone has more than one, it is necessary to use a special word to describe it. Thus the B in LGTBEQ.

    But don’t ever say that pedophilia is a sexual preference or orientation. Its persistence in some people (which sis acknlowledged) must be descried without using those terms. This is never stated explicitly, but you can soak it up through osmosis.

    Pedophilia, like rape, is usually described as a choice – an evil choice – except it is also described as not being a choice.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  76. * I mean LGBTQ.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  77. Let me be more explicit Hoi, I think you’re peaking out of the blinds at a phantom army that doesn’t exist. What school system are you talking about that has these very horrible policies?

    Time123 (306531) — 10/15/2020 @ 6:14 am

    Fairfax. My wife teacher is a teacher there and was just mandated to read the text “How to be an Antiracst” by the same thoughtful guy who called ACB a “white colonizer” for adopting black children.

    You Democrats are grand!

    Sad thing is, FCPS has changed a lot in the past twenty years. It’s a shell of its old self. But hey, at least we are teaching kids the important stuff: if you are white, you are a racist. If you are a boy, you are bad. If you want to become a girl, that’s great!

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  78. Your original claim was that 2nd graders were being taught about Fluid genders before they took sex ed. Now you’re saying that How to Be An Antiracist is going to be assigned reading. If it’s for 2nd graders I think your reading program is world class.

    Snark aside; This is common with the cultural grievance crowd. You take a whole lot of different stuff, put it in a pile and complain. It’s why your POV is taken less and less seriously as time goes on. When someone asks about the specifics of your complaint it just falls apart.

    Time123 (306531)

  79. nk (1d9030) — 10/14/2020 @ 6:19 pm

    Grammatically, “preference” implies “innate” more than “orientation” does.

    I think it’s the other way around. Both are in the present tense and neither goes into the history of where it came from. But “preference” can imply someone might have more than one type of sexual partner while “orientation” implies only one, and if someone has sex with both men and woen, a separate word – bisexual – is needed to describe that orientation.

    Orientation is a deliberate process, a conscious and educated choice and decision, except maybe to homing pigeons.

    They want to say it is not like homing pigeons or imprinting.

    Kowtowing to Hirono is a meaningless fleabite to pride compared to the sucking chest wound of abasement required to get a judicial appointment from Trump.

    She treated both as normal political figures and probably Trump for a not much longer period of time. And everyone knows she owes her appointment to McGahn (she was on he shortlist in 2018 or maybe even 2017 but saved for later) or to longtime judicial conservatives.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  80. 65. JRH (52aed3) — 10/14/2020 @ 9:49 pm

    That said I do think sexual orientation is hard-wired, not a choice,

    It may not be a choice past a certain age, but that doesn’t mean it is hardwired.

    Is the ability or pronouncee some phonemes or what language you speak fluently hard wired?

    And women are different than men. Men have an orientation to a particular type; women to a particular person. And there are fine points about it.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  81. We used to mock the Soviet politicization of science and medicine. We’re worse.

    nk (1d9030)

  82. Your original claim was that 2nd graders were being taught about Fluid genders before they took sex ed. Now you’re saying that How to Be An Antiracist is going to be assigned reading. If it’s for 2nd graders I think your reading program is world class.

    Snark aside; This is common with the cultural grievance crowd. You take a whole lot of different stuff, put it in a pile and complain. It’s why your POV is taken less and less seriously as time goes on. When someone asks about the specifics of your complaint it just falls apart.

    Time123 (306531) — 10/15/2020 @ 6:49 am

    My claims stand; your reading comprehension does not. My wife, a teacher, was mandated to read the book, not the second graders.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  83. So your complaint about cultural indoctrination is based on the fact that your adult wife was told to read a book?

    Then why all the original stuff about 2nd graders…this is why people don’t take this stuff seriously.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  84. And one more thing, with your kind permission:

    The really astounding thing was how Hirono seemed genuinely baffled by the concept that maybe the job of a judge is not the same as the job of a legislator. As if hearing it for the first time.
    ….
    Hirono says that a distinction between making policy & reading law is “a fiction” – wholly rejects the idea that judges are not exactly the same as legislators.

    As much as I hate to agree with Hirono about anything, she is mostly correct, otherwise we wouldn’t be making all this fuss about JUDGES! The Supreme Court in particular. They are about as much judges and not legislators as NASCAR cars are really stock cars.

    nk (1d9030)

  85. Time123 (306531) — 10/15/2020 @ 6:49 am

    This is common with the cultural grievance crowd. You take a whole lot of different stuff, put it in a pile and complain. It’s why your POV is taken less and less seriously as time goes on. When someone asks about the specifics of your complaint it just falls apart.

    This also seems to be common with the cultural marxists crowd. First, it isn’t happening because we can dance around terms and specifics and focus on one issue and then change the subject, then one thing is happening but it’s not really a problem because it’s an edge case and the whole pile isn’t happening, and finally it becomes why don’t you know the new definition of this term.

    This is how BLM was originally described as being anti-racists because “they just want equal treatment” when its not and that plays out as BLM gets more influence or how critical race theory is racist but hides behind redefinitions.

    frosty (f27e97)

  86. This also seems to be common with the cultural marxists crowd. First, it isn’t happening because we can dance around terms and specifics and focus on one issue and then change the subject, then one thing is happening but it’s not really a problem because it’s an edge case and the whole pile isn’t happening, and finally it becomes why don’t you know the new definition of this term.

    Or you could make the claims match the facts instead of lying and exaggerating.

    Claim: 2nd graders are being taught about gender fluidity and middle school children are being taught about anal sex.
    Actual complaint: My adult wife was told to read “how to be an anti-racsit” by the school district that employs her.

    The complaint is certainly worth talking about. But it bears no relationship to the claim.

    Outrage sells (on both the left and the right) and so often when I follow one of these stories to the ground I find that there’s much less there that meets the eye.

    But that kind of observation doesn’t validate the persecution complex.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  87. Outrage sells (on both the left and the right)

    We want to save the country from the evil conspiracy. Owning an unsustainable budget isn’t as much fun.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  88. Claim: 2nd graders are being taught about gender fluidity and middle school children are being taught about anal sex.

    You seem to push back on the claim rather than explain to me why these teachings are good. You have the floor. Let me know why these teaching are no big deal.

    Actual complaint: My adult wife was told to read “how to be an anti-racsit” by the school district that employs her.

    The complaint is certainly worth talking about.

    I would love to know your thoughts on it then.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  89. Claim: 2nd graders are being taught about gender fluidity and middle school children are being taught about anal sex.

    You seem to push back on the claim rather than explain to me why these teachings are good. You have the floor. Let me know why these teaching are no big deal.

    Are you going back to they’re actually happening? If so where and why? If it’s hypothetical what specifics are we supposed to assume? The macho-man Randy Savage coming in to scream at everyone they Randy is a girls name and that Gender isn’t real? Or lesson that it’s not OK mock classmates just because they don’t like dolls or sports?

    Actual complaint: My adult wife was told to read “how to be an anti-racsit” by the school district that employs her.

    The complaint is certainly worth talking about.

    I would love to know your thoughts on it then.

    In general I have no problem with a public school teacher being told to read a short book that’s highly relevant to a current issue if it’s for awareness or to make sure they have first hand knowledge as opposed to summaries / 2nd hand.

    If the intent and execution was very different from that I’m concerned. Did the district give her any explanation for the decision? Where there specific parts of it that they felt would be useful for the teachers?

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  90. Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 7:48 am

    But that kind of observation doesn’t validate the persecution complex.

    I can’t speak for others but I don’t see it through the lens of persecution. Persecution and oppression are the language of cultural marxism and identity politics. This framing also seems to be a way of dismissing the issue. A type of gaslighting.

    I wouldn’t critize the type of things Hoi Polloi mentioned based on the idea that I was being persecuted, or on behalf of children claiming they were being persecuted. I’d critize them on the grounds of being objectively wrong and illogical.

    frosty (f27e97)

  91. Frosty, I could be wrong, but i don’t think you and HP come at these issues from the same POV.

    I can’t speak for others but I don’t see it through the lens of persecution. Persecution and oppression are the language of cultural marxism and identity politics.

    I see a huge persecution complex on the part of a large chunk of Trump supporters. But YMMV

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  92. Totalitarianism can flourish where people systematically refuse to engage with reality, and are ready to replace reason with ideology and outright fiction. -Hannah Arendt

    Apply to this thread.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  93. Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:11 am

    Are you going back to they’re actually happening?

    A google search for “school teaching gender fluidity”

    My first link is “5 Simple Reasons Schools Should Teach …”. The second and third are from Canada so they don’t count but it seems to be a big thing there. Sorry canucks. Number 4 is from the Washington Post and is about plans to teach this in Calaifornia (who would have guessed CA -shocked-). From the article:

    Creating these curricula is a major priority for transgender-rights advocates, and they have succeeded elsewhere in pushing their cause.

    The 5th link is about Fairfax County.

    Can we move past the argument that this isn’t happening and is just a fever dream?

    If so where and why?

    Why? Well, I think BLM said it most recently, “We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure”, but their predecessors said it more succinctly “Abolition [Aufhebung] of the family!”.

    frosty (f27e97)

  94. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:31 am

    Apply to this thread.

    And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

    frosty (f27e97)

  95. Well, I think BLM said it most recently, “We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure”,

    No kidding! That is a statement of fact, and has been for several generations, single black women raising their children and their grandchildren without a father in sight.

    nk (1d9030)

  96. Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:16 am

    I see a huge persecution complex on the part of a large chunk of Trump supporters. But YMMV

    It’s possible you are correct. It’s also possible that you see this through a lens you’re more comfortable with. If you’ve internalized the language of oppresion then you’d naturally evaulate critismism and complaints in those terms.

    The real question is how do you engage the issue. If you see this as an issue of persecution it’s easy to disengage. The standard routine is to rank it and this would rank low. Complaints about it ranking low also get ranked low. It’s a convenient system.

    But you still haven’t engaged on this issue of whether teaching this sort of stuff to elementary school kids is appropriate. In fact the entire point of framing it as persecution is meant to avoid that discussion.

    frosty (f27e97)

  97. I see a huge persecution complex on the part of a large chunk of Trump supporters. But YMMV

    Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:16 am

    Just because you see it that way does not make it true. I simply find it illogical to teach gender fluidity to kids before they even understand what genders are. I think sex education should be taught in schools, but talking about the benefits of one type of sex over another is far beyond the purview of the public school system. These teachers are not qualified sex therapists or doctors, nor are they the parents of the kids they are teaching.

    But I get from your histrionics on this matter that you believe otherwise. I leave you with this: if these things are simply no big deal, then why even bother bringing them up in school?

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  98. Frosty, let’s stick with the specifics. I can’t get past the WaPo pay wall. But your one about FFX is out in the open.

    I assume this is what you found in your google search?
    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/parents-furious-over-schools-plan-to-teach-gender-spectrum-fluidity

    A couple points.

    1. It’s from 2015.
    2. It’s not 2nd grade curriculum. It’s for 7th – 12th grade and seems to phase in concepts. “Students will be provided definitions for sexual orientation terms heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality; and the gender identity term transgender,” the district’s recommendations state. “Emphasis will be placed on recognizing that everyone is experiencing changes and the role of respectful, inclusive language in promoting an environment free of bias and discrimination.”

    Based on what’s in the opinion piece this actually sounds educational. I think this is material that should be covered in a middle school through high school health class in age appropriate ways. But it was from 2015, any evidence this has harmed students?

    Now we’re back to when we look at specifics it turns out that the original claim; “2nd graders are being taught about gender fluidity” is false and that what’s actually happening looks much less objectionable. I get it, that some people think the very concept is evil, but the article made clear parents could opt their kids out.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  99. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

    frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:38 am

    I carry water for no politician so this response is just projection.

    Sadly the persecution complex is as real as the fact most of y’all will be telling me you never supported Trump, once this is all in the past.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  100. Just because you see it that way does not make it true. I simply find it illogical to teach gender fluidity to kids before they even understand what genders are. I think sex education should be taught in schools, but talking about the benefits of one type of sex over another is far beyond the purview of the public school system. These teachers are not qualified sex therapists or doctors, nor are they the parents of the kids they are teaching.

    But I get from your histrionics on this matter that you believe otherwise. I leave you with this: if these things are simply no big deal, then why even bother bringing them up in school?

    So far you’ve provided no evidence that anyone is teaching gender fluidity to 2nd graders. At this point I assume you’re lying about it.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  101. Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:16 am

    I see a huge persecution complex on the part of a large chunk of Trump supporters. But YMMV

    It’s possible you are correct. It’s also possible that you see this through a lens you’re more comfortable with. If you’ve internalized the language of oppresion then you’d naturally evaulate critismism and complaints in those terms.

    The real question is how do you engage the issue. If you see this as an issue of persecution it’s easy to disengage. The standard routine is to rank it and this would rank low. Complaints about it ranking low also get ranked low. It’s a convenient system.

    But you still haven’t engaged on this issue of whether teaching this sort of stuff to elementary school kids is appropriate. In fact the entire point of framing it as persecution is meant to avoid that discussion.

    frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:51 am

    Let me be more clear. I see a lot of Trump supporters making up stuff and exaggerating things to justify their feeling that ‘someone’ is out to get them and that the world is biased against them.

    I think ranking persecution the way you describe is silly. I wouldn’t bother talking with someone that used the routine you describe beyond a very superficial way.

    Tell me what’s being taught and to who and I’ll tell you if I think it’s appropriate. As I said upthread; teaching 2nd graders that boys can like doll and girls can like trucks and that it’s NOK to make fun of them for that sounds AOK to me. But you could describe it teaching gender fluidity.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  102. Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:54 am

    I’m not sure why you’re having trouble finding information about the CA plans. This seemed pretty easy to dig up:

    For sex education, the topic that generated opposition, the framework offers numerous subjects for discussion at each grade grouping, including:

    Grades kindergarten through three: gender identity

    Your assertion that this isn’t happening doesn’t seem to be correct.

    but the article made clear parents could opt their kids out

    The articles about the CA plans aren’t as clear.

    Nor can parents choose to remove their children from this indoctrination. While parents can opt their children out of lessons on sexual health that involve discussions of sexual organs and their functions, they are forbidden from removing their children from any discussion of gender identity. Thus, if a school chooses to assign the sole book recommended by the guidelines for kindergarten reading, “My Princess Boy,” parents have no recourse.

    frosty (f27e97)

  103. It’s pretty sick if you think about it. All these normal folks, not that invested in politics, get radicalized with lies about sex trafficking in pizza joints, screwing up the minds of 2nd graders, so they become outraged and don’t really know how to learn the truth.

    And these people have their own time and happiness robbed by Trump fanatics. A lot of these qanon nutcases are motivated by something wholesome. Hoi Polloi just seemingly wants to protect little kids. But then they spread the stuff and spread the stuff, maybe with a tiny kernel of truth, some isolated thing twisted into a nation-wide plan personally run by George Soros and Joe Biden.

    All that waste and pain, simply because it helps elect another Team R scam artist, or gets another dollar in LaPierre or Falwell Jr’s pocket. And seeing how those people live, they are more or less put evil.

    If there is an anti-christ, he will have all the evangelicals voting for him no problem. But the reality is more pedestrian. They are simply hating their own people, the majority of America, just hating them all day.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  104. Frosty, I read the article about the Fairfax situation. If you want to have a conversation about CA can you send me the link you’re using? This would probably go better if you and I were working from the same facts.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  105. Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:22 am

    try this one

    frosty (f27e97)

  106. I don’t have a WAPO subscription so I can’t read that.

    I found this which was published may of last year. https://apnews.com/article/e6b4018eaebb49bf8ddc63aee0074182

    Time123 (306531)

  107. Time123, right click and open frosty’s link in incognito mode.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  108. @69 Yes need to shout. I have had repeated variations (some in excruciating detail) of the exact same conversation on here over and over and over because people want to repeat a meme about the feds controlling curriculum at kids schools, because it fits their narrative, even though it is provably Not True.

    Also, no one is pushing gender fluidity on 2nd graders or promoting anal sex to middle schoolers (or, you know, mentioning it at all, really). We would very very very much prefer our jr. high kids didn’t have any sex at all (frankly, we don’t even really want them to date, they sooooo aren’t ready). Have you ever made a “your 13 yr old thinks she might be pregnant” call? Because I have, and it is a terrible call to make.

    @71 “I have no idea why a second grader needs to learn about gender choices at all.” You know what the most extreme example of what a lower elementary kid might learn about gender fluidity would be? “We thought Johnny was a girl named Suzi before, but then he said he was a boy named Johnny, so we are going to call him Johnny from now on. Don’t be mean.” That’s it. That would be the most extreme example.

    “I have no idea why school teachers need to tell kids that anal sex is a good choice for them when exploring their sexuality.” I’ll take Things that don’t happen. for $200, Alex. Anal sex, not a thing that we talk to jr high kids about.

    “Maybe that should be something parents should talk about with their children.” It would be great if all parents provided comprehensive sex ed to kids. None of us want to have to talk to teenagers about sex. Instead we have to provide curriculum for it because parents don’t talk to their kids about it. School districts collected a lot of data on that before we got stuck doing the job. And the numbers show that it is a benefit. Districts that provide comprehensive sex ed have significantly lower teen pregnancy rates than districts that do not and their counties have lower STD rates among teenagers.

    @93 Did you read the article you pointed to in the WaPo? See my above statement on the most extreme possible depth of gender fluidity education for little kids.

    @97 You are fighting imaginary dragons.

    Oh, and just for the record, I’m in California.

    Nic (896fdf)

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