Patterico's Pontifications

10/7/2020

Exactly When Was The President’s Last Negative Test For The Virus?

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:46 am



[guest post by Dana]

Back in June, White House spokesperson Kayleigh McEnany said publicly that President Trump was being tested multiple times a day:

“As I’ve made clear from this podium, the president is the most tested man in America,” White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany told reporters. “He’s tested more than anyone, multiple times a day, and we believe that he’s acting appropriately.”

Pressed on her remarks, which were in response to a question regarding the president’s reluctance to wear a face mask in public, McEnany declined to elaborate on the specific number of times Trump is tested in a 24-hour period.

“He’s tested often. I’m not going to read out exactly how many times he’s tested a day, but sometimes it is more than one time a day,” she said.

However, on the same day that McEnnany made the claim, President Trump later contradicted her:

Speaking during a White House news briefing later Tuesday, Trump himself said he is tested on average once every two or three days. He denied ever having been tested multiple times in a single day but said, “I could see that happening.”

We should’ve known something was up. And we did…

Now that 14 White House staff members have tested positive for the virus (at least 27 people in total across Trump’s White House, election campaign and military leaders have now tested positive), there are questions about just how frequently President Trump was being tested:

Still unknown was the exact status of the president’s health. Dr. Sean P. Conley, the White House physician, said on Tuesday that the president “reports no symptoms” of the virus and that his vital signs were stable, but no one at the White House would say what the “expected findings” were on Mr. Trump’s chest X-ray that Dr. Conley had mentioned over the weekend.

There were no answers, either, on when Mr. Trump last tested negative for the virus — a crucial piece of information that the White House and Dr. Conley have refused to answer and would establish the known state of Mr. Trump’s health before the presidential debate last Tuesday or before he attended a fund-raiser in New Jersey on Thursday. The White House first made public that Mr. Trump had tested positive early last Friday.

Two officials maintained that Mr. Trump had been tested before the presidential debate, but the White House has yet to affirm that.

White House officials conceded on Tuesday that there had been an impression created that Mr. Trump was getting tested every day, and a reliance on testing as if it were a curative measure as opposed to a diagnostic.

Yet the president himself was not tested every day, according to two people familiar with the practices. A senior administration official would only say on Tuesday that Mr. Trump was tested “regularly.” Mr. Trump himself told reporters in the White House briefing room in July that “I do take probably on average a test every two days, three days.”

Jake Tapper has posted a timeline:

According to the NYT report, White House staff appears frustrated, as evidenced by the finger-pointing going on:

Ms. Hicks had been upset last week that she was being blamed for infecting the president, according to three people who had spoken with her. She had not attended a Rose Garden event announcing Judge Amy Coney Barrett’s nomination to the Supreme Court and had tested positive for the virus on the same day as Mr. Trump and the first lady — making it just as likely that she had contracted the virus from the president.

Among White House advisers, anger grew at Ms. McEnany because her statement announcing her diagnosis appeared to blame Ms. Hicks. There was also frustration from many corners at Mr. Meadows for not doing more to try to protect the staff, a criticism that his defenders said was unfair given the scope of his duties.

Yet among other, less prominent staffers, there appears to be a sense of resignation:

On Monday night, some of the staff members still at the White House had gathered to watch Mr. Trump’s return. When he defiantly took off his mask on the Truman Balcony for a made-for-television moment, aides said it was of course a statement. But they also wondered if the face covering was making it harder for the president to breathe.

Either way, some of them shrugged off the message it was sending to tens of millions of Americans about taking the coronavirus seriously.

The sentiment, according to one aide to Mr. Trump, was that “it’s his house.”

But that’s the thing: it’s not his house. It’s the people’s house, and he owes the American public – for whom he works and answers to – a truthful and direct response via Dr. Conley about when he last tested negative for the virus.

For his part though, Dr. Conley has moved on from testing questions, and said this morning that things are going swimmingly well:

Trump has also been “fever-free for more than 4 days” and has not required supplemental oxygen since leaving Walter Reed National Military Medical Center on Monday, said Dr. Sean Conley, the White House physician, in the memo.

“Of note today, the President’s labs demonstrated detectable levels of SARS-CoV-2-IgG antibodies from labs drawn Monday,” Conley added.

Conley’s brief memo did not include any specific updates on the president’s drug regimen. Trump, since testing positive for the coronavirus last week, has taken numerous treatments, including the steroid dexamethasone, the antiviral therapy remdesivir and an antibody cocktail from Regeneron.

But the memo did include remarks from Trump himself. “The President this morning says ‘I feel great!’” Conley wrote.

Oh, and PS:

Larry Kudlow, Trump’s top economic advisor, refused to tell CNBC if Trump has been wearing a mask as he returns to work.

Clearly, things are indeed going swimmingly well!

–Dana

157 Responses to “Exactly When Was The President’s Last Negative Test For The Virus?”

  1. Dont’ be afraid of COVID. Don’t let it dominate your life.

    Dana (292df6)

  2. Dont’ be afraid of COVID. Don’t let it dominate your life.

    We don’t all have “some Black woman” delivering our food.

    beer ‘n pretzels (229cc1)

  3. bnp,

    What does that mean?

    Dana (292df6)

  4. He takes 8 grams of antibodies, which is honestly kinda insane it’s so much. Then, his blood reveals it has antibodies in it. Saying the latter wasn’t caused by the former is deceptive, in my opinion.

    I also wonder how many people made those antibodies, and how many Americans will die because they didn’t get them. The main reason to avoid catching the disease is that resources are too scarce. It’s not like everyone can have 8 grams of COVID antibodies. He basically imported the immune system from many stronger, healthier people, and also took that from many older, weaker people.

    There’s no reason to be evasive about when he first and last tested except that he was sick during the debate, got a bunch of people sick by hiding it, or some other bizarre lie. These guys lie too much.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  5. What does that mean?

    Dana (292df6) — 10/7/2020 @ 11:04 am

    Lately he’s had two thoughts. First is “but off topic reference to democrat”. Second is “but commenter or poster, you are bad/ignorant/hypocritical/biased”

    Still waiting for the “this is a Trump fan’s thoughts on why Trump’s conduct is OK”

    Dustin (4237e0)

  6. President Trump is a complete failure at even the simplest things and totally unreliable. How many times did he say he didn’t need to wear a mask because of the testing? All of that was a lie. My money is on the testing being uncomfortable and Trump being too big of a baby to do it so he just lied. Hope no one who caught it from him is hurt too badly.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  7. As long as Trump and his family get cream-of-the-crop treatment, he really isn’t concerned about an irrelevant issue like limited resources.

    Dana (292df6)

  8. , Trump himself said he is tested on average once every two or three days. He denied ever having been tested multiple times in a single day but said, “I could see that happening.”

    That’s right, that’s right.

    I didn’t remember that exact quote, but I felt that was right.

    I think the White House was rationing these tests.

    His Covid protection plan (mostly for himself with Mike Pence given the same treatment) worked well for about six months. but then some flaw was exposed – and he, or the White House staff, doesn’t seem to be interested in finding out what the flaw was.

    We should’ve known something was up. And we did…

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  9. Trump issues misleading statements about his health.

    Sun rises in East.

    Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

    John B Boddie (699c63)

  10. It means there’s space between ignoring necessary precautions and living in a bubble, so the statement you seem to be lampooning is actually sound advice for a country that can’t sit on its duff forever. Not everyone has the means or practical ability to live as a hermit, and a tut-tut attitude from Biden and his supporters is simply tone deaf.

    beer ‘n pretzels (229cc1)

  11. Biden said that in Tampa recently. Here’s the full quote. Not the most artful phrasing, but it’s clear that his point is we’ll get through this by working together. If you squint it kind of looks like he’s assuming a high overlap between being non-white and working in a critical (and low paid) job. But the end kind of pull it out of the ditch…again, not the most artful phrasing.

    “And they say, ‘Well, why in the hell would you say that Biden? You just talked about all these difficulties.’ Well, I’ll tell you why. Because the American public, the blinders have been taken off,” Biden told the roundtable attendees. “They’ve all of a sudden seen a hell of a lot clearer. They’re saying, ‘Jeeze, the reason I was able to stay sequestered in my home is because some Black woman was able to stack the grocery shelf. Or a young Hispanic is out there, these dreamers are out there, 60,000 of them acting as first responders and nurses and docs.’ Or all of a sudden people are realizing, ‘My Lord, these people have done so much. Not just Black, White, across the board, have done so much for me. We can do this. We can get things done.‘ And I think they’re ready.”

    Time123 (66d88c)

  12. The fact that there is any whiff of willful non-transparency makes everything the administration and their people say, suspicious. It’s pretty amazing that, even during a worldwide pandemic, our President and staff will not work extra hard to be transparent, clear, and without ambiguity when talking about COVID and the President’s health status, as well as those within his orbit. They have given us every reason *not* to trust them. This is not only the sign of poor leadership, but self-serving agendas that don’t prioritize America’s best interests.

    Dana (292df6)

  13. BNB, in context, what do you find objectionable about Biden’s statement?

    The part where he says we can get through this by working together?
    the part where he specifically recognizes the contributions of non-white people?
    the part where he specifically recognizes the contributions of low income workers?

    Time123 (66d88c)

  14. bnp,

    Most people that I know, including myself, who have the luxury of being at home during this season, are nothing less than grateful and recognize the gift that it is. With that, and without saying too much because, as we know, we are not to let the right hand know what the left hand is doing, a myriad of ways to help our fellow neighbors and community members that aren’t afforded the same luxury have presented themselves and we don’t hesitate to do our part. So, no, I am not sitting at home having “some Black woman deliver my food.” To the contrary. I think that there are massive numbers of Americans across the country trying to do their share to help their fellow man.

    Dana (292df6)

  15. The part where he says we can get through this by working together?
    the part where he specifically recognizes the contributions of non-white people?
    the part where he specifically recognizes the contributions of low income workers?

    Time123 (66d88c) — 10/7/2020 @ 11:16 am

    This doesn’t have a thing to do with Trump’s weird behavior lately, is my complaint.

    Biden could have said that stuff a lot more elegantly. Politicians should be aware that if their sentences blurts out something about black people, they should be careful to do it clearly. I think Biden’s right… a lot of the people working really hard, facing more risk, while the rest of the country works from home, are minorities. Of course, tons of them (most of them) are not, so Biden’s point to think about how dependent each ‘kind’ of American is on the others was clumsy but wholesome and good. Biden’s got a bit of Michael Scott whenever race comes up.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  16. The fact that there is any whiff of willful non-transparency makes everything the administration and their people say, suspicious. It’s pretty amazing that, even during a worldwide pandemic, our President and staff will not work extra hard to be transparent, clear, and without ambiguity when talking about COVID and the President’s health status, as well as those within his orbit. They have given us every reason *not* to trust them. This is not only the sign of poor leadership, but self-serving agendas that don’t prioritize America’s best interests.

    Dana (292df6) — 10/7/2020 @ 11:14 am

    Trump doesn’t do ‘accurate and clear’. If it’s positive he has to lie and blow the claim up beyond all recognition of the actual facts. If it’s negative he lies that it didn’t happen. There’s little to no connection between facts and the things he says. It goes beyond the ‘technically true but misleading’ and ‘puffery’ that most pols do and moved into a new world where where facts have no relevance at all. It doesn’t make sense to use his words to understand what has happened, what they want to happen, or even what they’re thinking at a point in time.

    This is apparently true when the information is a matter of public health and know who was exposed and when they were exposed could help stop the spread of a serious disease. Again in this case an accurate accounting of when people got sick could directly keep other people healthy.

    But he’s too weak to admit anything that might harm his image even when there is a direct and tangible benefit of doing so.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  17. Further, I am lampooning the President’s statements because more than 200,000 Americans have died from the virus, and the President just blew them off as if they never walked the earth in the first place. Further, he has gotten the most top-notch treatment and care, which no other individual in our nation will receive, so it’s easy for him to pop out his slogans.

    Dana (292df6)

  18. That’s fine, Dana. I take the necessary precautions, but I am not afraid of Covid and I don’t let it dominate my life. I don’t find anything objectionable in that. I think that’s sound advice for the country as a whole, even though it may not be sound for certain individuals.

    beer ‘n pretzels (cd2298)

  19. The part where he says we can get through this by working together?
    the part where he specifically recognizes the contributions of non-white people?
    the part where he specifically recognizes the contributions of low income workers?

    Time123 (66d88c) — 10/7/2020 @ 11:16 am

    I can’t speak for BNP, but it bothers me because Biden assumes black women do labor like stocking shelves.

    What bothers me more is Biden can’t wait to watch some kids dance in four years.

    Creepy.

    Hoi Polloi (2f1acd)

  20. Dustin, You’re losing sight of the fact that Joe Biden is the 2nd worst politician alive today at saying a OK thing in a bad way and making what can only be described barely compressible verbal gaffes.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  21. What bothers me more is Biden can’t wait to watch some kids dance in four years.

    This bothers you a lot? It’s something you’re really thinking about all the time? That’s two wild squirrels. Meanwhile, did Trump wish Ghislaine well with her prosecution for trafficking underage girls in sex slavery?

    That’s fine, Dana. I take the necessary precautions, but I am not afraid of Covid and I don’t let it dominate my life. I don’t find anything objectionable in that. I think that’s sound advice for the country as a whole, even though it may not be sound for certain individuals.

    beer ‘n pretzels (cd2298) — 10/7/2020 @ 11:29 am

    This doesn’t make a lick of sense. The lack of cooperation on common sense stuff like masks and distancing requires leaders like Trump to encourage doing the right thing, knowing people might fall short of make excuses. Why would be good advice to politicize masks, compare them to men with purses, call a mask an act of cowardice when it really protects others? This is bad advice, plain and simple.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  22. Dustin, You’re losing sight of the fact that Joe Biden is the 2nd worst politician alive today at saying a OK thing in a bad way and making what can only be described barely compressible verbal gaffes.

    Time123 (af99e9) — 10/7/2020 @ 11:31 am

    LOL you’re totally right. Isn’t it amazing these two guys are the choices we have, as the nation yearns for more Bush or Obama?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  23. @17: Trump is blowing off 200,000 dead Americans like many here are blowing off the many more hundreds of thousands dead around the world. Sorry that Trump is attaching as much responsibility to himself as you do to Cuomo and China.

    beer ‘n pretzels (cd2298)

  24. But the post isn’t about that, and the conversation has been derailed in a predictable fashion by someone who should own up.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  25. @19, Agreed, that’s the part of his statement that’s poorly worded.
    @18, if you take all necessary precautions you’re doing more than our CIC.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  26. @13. It’s racist.

    =mike drop=

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  27. many here are blowing off the many more hundreds of thousands dead around the world

    See Dana?

    BNP only really says two things.

    Either he changes the subject to something a democrat did that’s off topic enough to derail the flow

    Or commenters and posters are ignorant, biased, evil.

    In this case, BNP is saying you and I and time123 are all sociopaths who do not care about deaths around the world. HE didn’t say this based on anything we say or feel. He said this to force a reaction, because his first troll is running out of steam.

    We’re not really talking about Trump’s honesty relating to his disease though.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  28. Time123 (66d88c) — 10/7/2020 @ 11:09 am

    My money is on the testing being uncomfortable and Trump being too big of a baby to do it

    No, no.

    The White House was using (for screening) the Abbott Laboratories rapid result saliva test – the same kind of test used by professional sports leagues.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/12/us/coronavirus-testing-white-house.html
    `
    They only did the PCR swab up his nose test if the first test was positive – and until it was they treated it as negative for purposes of quarantining, except that during the interval between the two tests a person couldn;t go in to see the presdent or the vce president..

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  29. This is pretty simple.

    Any piece of information that Trump’s propaganda operation can possibly spin in a positive light – even if doesn’t pass the laugh test – will be trumpeted from the WH, FoxNews and social media. And the cult will embrace it.

    If they stonewall, it’s because even the most creative and prolific liars in the country can’t contrive a favorable narrative.

    His tax returns are an example of how they tried to deal with a similar problem.

    Dave (1bb933)

  30. “You cannot Go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.” – Joe Biden

    “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.” – Joe Biden

    “If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.” – Joe Biden

    “Joe, why do old farts stink of Aqua Velva?” – DCSCA 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. New York Post
    @nypost

    De Blasio vows order after Hasidic unrest over COVID-19 restrictions

    Separate rules for the Jooz but Trump is 1930s Germany.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  32. those epidemiology certificates won’t mail themselves,

    https://lawliberty.org/the-uses-of-revolutionary-violence/

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  33. Stephen Miller has tested positive or Covid.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. @27: You’re so right, Dustin. The thread got hijacked @1.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  35. It could’ve been worse for Biden. He could’ve really gaffed it with, “If you haven’t delivered food to my house, then you ain’t black!”

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  36. He could’ve really gaffed it with, “If you haven’t delivered food to my house, then you ain’t black!”

    Yo, that ain’t nuffin. How about:

    “I wanna put y’all back in chains!”

    😀

    Dave (1bb933)

  37. @28, Good point. I retract my theory. I’m now left with no rational explanation for why he wasn’t tested regularly.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  38. 4. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/7/2020 @ 11:07 am

    He takes 8 grams of antibodies, which is honestly kinda insane it’s so much. Then, his blood reveals it has antibodies in it. Saying the latter wasn’t caused by the former is deceptive, in my opinion.

    But go and get the doctors to acknowledge that.

    Trump actually seems to believe his body made most of them. He said he might be immune. It’s purely passivee immunity and will last 3 to 4 months. Now I suppose his system has been making some.

    I also wonder how many people made those antibodies,

    These are artificial antibodies. The big constraint on their distribution is the Food and Drug Administration, and the possibility of ruining clinical trials if just anybody could get them instead of, at best, a 50% chance of getting the treatment.

    If so, who would instead choose to risk getting a placebo? The clinical trial would collapse because it failed to enroll enough people.

    And without a clinical trial, how could you prove, beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt, that it worked?

    But you know, it’s science uber alles. Including over common sense.

    Trump is no hypocrite on this. He wants that out there. Particularly before the election.

    It’s the Democrats who don’t want anyone (else) to have it. (I don’t think they’ll begrudge the president for using his position to get the experimental treatment. They’d almost have to say it worked then.)

    And how many Americans will die because they didn’t get them.

    Ask Joe Biden. He';s against deviating from the protocols.

    The main reason to avoid catching the disease is that resources are too scarce. It’s not like everyone can have 8 grams of COVID antibodies.

    Yes they can, if the FDA gave the go-ahead. They can be manufactured a lot faster than vaccines. Trump was not given convalescent fluid, which is in limited supply and cumbersome to extract.

    He basically imported the immune system from many stronger, healthier people, and also took that from many older, weaker people.

    No, no no, no no. It was researched in mice that had been given a human immune system. It (the best candidate antibodies) were then manufactured in a laboratory. Nobody else was going to get to use them. And the FDA is watching very carefully what Regeneron does about promoting it or not promoting it. And unfortunately, nobody, not even Trump, is ready to say that cured him. He should. It would be a good debating point.

    Trump is talking too much about vaccines and too little about therapeutics.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  39. @27: You’re so right, Dustin. The thread got hijacked @1.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/7/2020 @ 12:00 pm

    What are your thoughts about the post?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  40. Ask Joe Biden. He';s against deviating from the protocols.

    I don’t follow. Trump got a huge amount of a precious thing, that if he had just used common sense, he wouldn’t have needed. If one of his lawn care crew is sick, can they get 8 grams of this stuff? If my mom gets sick, can she? If the rich and connected get the good stuff, and they also roll their eyes at any effort that would limit the need for it, that’s wrong.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  41. BTW Dana, I’m glad you and Patterico both covered this. It’s important. We taxpayers deserve to know how this outbreak happened in Our House.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  42. Normally leaders face a crisis with confidence, expressing that we should unite and work together, to be stronger.

    Biden’s clumsy comment at least gets the idea.

    Trump faced the crisis by lying, by panicking, by hording, by dismissing, and finally by mocking any sign there is a crisis (mainly if he sees masks on the TV Set, or if there’s unrest on the TV set).

    Had Trump just copied W on 9/12/2001, he would be cruising to re-election. His confidence was a weird promise to help people with the stock market, that the disease ain’t worth worrying too much about, that those who do the right thing are cowards who are dominated by the cause.

    We’ll get the government we deserve.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  43. Dustin:

    There’s no reason to be evasive about when he first and last tested except that he was sick during the debate, got a bunch of people sick by hiding it, or some other bizarre lie. These guys lie too much.

    No, also to hide how long he might have had it undetected.

    The saliva test doesn’t detect it at the beginning of an infection but it does more or less detect it at the moment of contagiousness.

    I’m sure they assumed Hope Hicks got it from nobody connected to Trump.

    That’swrong but I don;t think she got it from Trump because she’s younger and felt sick before he did (at the same time Trump fell asleep which he doesn’t usually do on a plane) He also spoke less than usual at his Minn rally.

    Dana thinks, if I understood her correctly, that it was a church group (maybe more than one infected person) who spread the infection at the ceremony announcing the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett on Sept 25. Even though it was held outdoors in the daytime – but then people mingled indoors too.

    It was probably transmitted through the air, at a distance greater than 6 or 15 feet.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  44. Dave (1bb933) — 10/7/2020 @ 11:42 am

    If they stonewall, it’s because even the most creative and prolific liars in the country can’t contrive a favorable narrative.

    They weren’t alert to this, and Trump himself would usually only get tested if there was cause. Hope Hicks’ test result provided cause.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  45. @42, Trump is a terrible leader. His main tool is

    Set a positive vision (CV won’t be a problem/will be over quickly)
    Sell that vision. (see his many public statements)
    Fight against anything that will discourage belief in that vision. (testing is bad, masks are bad, anything that contradicts the vision is bad.)

    That approach has applications. But this wasn’t one of them.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  46. I’m sure they assumed Hope Hicks got it from nobody connected to Trump.

    I don’t really buy that Hope Hicks has a thing to do with a thing. I think they used her to establish a timeline. If they were being straight, they would have never assumed so much about her, but if they were lying, they need to know what the lie is. Trump’s a con man. He works from the end, not he beginning, so sometimes it’s easy to figure him out.

    Something pretty bad is going on with the beginning of his illness.

    Dana thinks, if I understood her correctly, that it was a church group (maybe more than one infected person) who spread the infection at the ceremony announcing the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett on Sept 25. Even though it was held outdoors in the daytime – but then people mingled indoors too.

    I like this theory. I just have no idea. Which is odd, since a lot of organizations with less than a millionth the resources are pretty effective at contact tracing.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  47. One other thought: The reason why the WH has refused contact-tracing is because a diligent tracking effort would reveal when Trump was actually tested and what the results were. I still maintain that he tested positive before 10/1 and knew he was infected when debating Biden, or the previous negative test was so far back in time that it put the lie to Trump’s previous “regularly” comments.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  48. Set a positive vision (CV won’t be a problem/will be over quickly)
    Sell that vision. (see his many public statements)
    Fight against anything that will discourage belief in that vision. (testing is bad, masks are bad, anything that contradicts the vision is bad.)

    That approach has applications. But this wasn’t one of them.

    Time123 (af99e9) — 10/7/2020 @ 12:16 pm

    Well organized. Trump had his moment, what all this work to be president really was about. He saw it, he recognized it, he punked out. Of course Trump had no political capital to spend, but the USA is willing to work with leaders in tough times. We want to be united and good. Everyone here can feel that. We’re tired of being manipulated by trolls on the internet and greedy leaders, into thinking every issue is ‘bad Team R card vs bad Team D card’.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  49. grasping at straws, whereas when there is actual evidence of malfeasance by the security services, when the mccloskeys are being tormented by a corrupt da, it is ignored or minimized,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  50. chris rock validated tucker’s comment the next day, but nah what does it matter, now the cleveland clinic, seems to be terrible at their ‘one job’

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  51. not that you care,

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/10/hows-melania-trump-doing-after-covid-diagnosis/

    bolivar de gris (7404b5) — 10/7/2020 @ 12:47 pm

    I’m glad she’s doing well. In the noise machine that is the trump white house she doesn’t get a lot of attention.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  52. not that you care,

    No do the other 30 people (at least) that their lack of common sense has infected.

    How’s Herman Cain doing?

    How’s Chris Christie doing?

    How are those secret service agent’s doing?

    How is Trump’s valet doing?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  53. The reason why the WH has refused contact-tracing is because a diligent tracking effort would reveal when Trump was actually tested and what the results were. I still maintain that he tested positive before 10/1 and knew he was infected when debating Biden, or the previous negative test was so far back in time that it put the lie to Trump’s previous “regularly” comments.

    I agree, Paul. McEnany and Trump’s contradictory test schedule demonstrates that there was no clear knowledge about when he was tested, and there was also no clear messaging about it either. Even if there had been, Trump can’t even stick to his own messaging when he’s impulsively running his mouth.

    The real question to me that should be being asked by everyone, including Trumpsupporters is, why won’t they go the extra mile for the sake of transparency? Why not make public all of his health records from the very first positive/last negative test forward? In the interest of demonstrating that they have nothing to hide, and to build trust in the electorate, why not just tear the band-aid off and reveal all? If Trump tested positive when he said he did, then what’s the big deal? It wouldn’t hurt him in any way, but what it would be guaranteed to do would be to help restore trust him less than 30 days before the election. He might even pull in a few new voters who are looking for confirmation that what he and his representatives have said is true. That he isn’t willing to do that speaks more loudly than anything else. Unfortunately, his past history doesn’t allow him to receive the benefit of the doubt.

    Dana (292df6)

  54. not that you care,

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/10/hows-melania-trump-doing-after-covid-diagnosis/

    bolivar de gris (7404b5) — 10/7/2020 @ 12:47 pm

    This is a ridiculous assertion to make. Name one person here that has cheered the fact that Mrs. Trump has become ill. Everyone here, as far as I have read, wishes the Trumps a speedy and uncomplicated recovery. So to accuse us of not caring (about how she is currently faring), is to make a false accusation of the majority here. And I can say, too, that if you are referring specifically to the commenters on this thread, I’ve not seen one wish anything on her other than good health. But it plays well with your group, I suppose…

    Dana (292df6)

  55. BTW Dana, I’m glad you and Patterico both covered this. It’s important. We taxpayers deserve to know how this outbreak happened in Our House.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/7/2020 @ 12:10 pm

    Thanks, Paul Montagu. I think it’s important too.

    Dana (292df6)

  56. why won’t they go the extra mile for the sake of transparency?

    It’s not in his character to provide accurate and honest information. He sees no value in doing so. The act of doing so would preclude his ability to make strong claims in the future. He’s going to continue to make strong yet non-verifiable claims about his testing, some of these claims will likely be contradicted by others. His core supporters won’t care and will write of any effort to define specifics as ‘fake news bias’. They’ll also want to know whatabout Biden.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  57. The real question to me that should be being asked by everyone, including Trumpsupporters is, why won’t they go the extra mile for the sake of transparency? Why not make public all of his health records from the very first positive/last negative test forward? In the interest of demonstrating that they have nothing to hide, and to build trust in the electorate, why not just tear the band-aid off and reveal all? If Trump tested positive when he said he did, then what’s the big deal? It wouldn’t hurt him in any way, but what it would be guaranteed to do would be to help restore trust him less than 30 days before the election. He might even pull in a few new voters who are looking for confirmation that what he and his representatives have said is true. That he isn’t willing to do that speaks more loudly than anything else. Unfortunately, his past history doesn’t allow him to receive the benefit of the doubt.

    You keep looking at him as a President that wants to lead. You’re probably basing your expectations of his behavior on other leaders you’ve known in your life, or things you’ve done when you were in charge. This hasn’t been a useful model for me to understand Trump.

    Try visualizing him as a FB friend from High School who had rich parents and has a lot of bad feelings about people who weren’t nice enough back in the day. Imagine that they’ve moved from selling diet foods, to makeup, and are now selling essential oils. Replace “essential oils’ with “The Trump Brand” and the way Trump behaves is a lot more understandable.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  58. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/7/2020 @ 12:18 pm

    or the previous negative test was so far back in time that it put the lie to Trump’s previous “regularly” comments.

    I go with that, except it wasn;t Trump who said he was tested multiple times a day – it was his press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, who said that, and he immediately contradicted her as soon as he was asked about it, and said it was two or three times a week.

    I think it really did first come to the attention of the Administration with Hope Hicks (and that’s why her name was licked to it fr so long.

    I think they assumed that if any Covid cases came into the White House or Trump’s entourage, it would be through only one person, who got it because of non-Trump related activities, because their testing of everyone who might come into contact with either Trump or Pence would prevent it from spreading undetected within the group of people associated with the White House or Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  59. My point is, that everyone should hold every president’s feet to the fire, especially when it is an issue of national health during a pandemic! We have a responsibility and obligation to hold them as accountable as much as possible.

    But I take your point.

    Dana (292df6)

  60. You’re point is a great one.

    But we’re over here saying “The New England Journal of Medicine published a study that parsley extract doesn’t prevent cancer” and they’re hearing “You’re dumb for being a downline and spending 500$ on the starter kit.”

    Time123 (66d88c)

  61. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/7/2020 @ 12:17 pm

    I don’t really buy that Hope Hicks has a thing to do with a thing. I think they used her to establish a timeline.

    The thing with Hope Hicks, and the fact that they stuck with it, only makes sense if that was indeed the way the infection came to the notice of the Administration. She was the first one who tested positive. And the fact they told us about her only after a delay argues that is true.

    She didn’t feel well coming back on the plane from Minnesota and isolated herself. You would have thought maybe they would test her as soon as she got off the plane but they didn’t until the next day maybe when she would have otherwise came in for work.

    She didn;t get tested as soon as she got off the plae
    Something pretty bad is going on with the beginning of his illness.

    Dana thinks, if I understood her correctly, that it was a church group (maybe more than one infected person) who spread the infection at the ceremony announcing the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett on Sept 25. Even though it was held outdoors in the daytime – but then people mingled indoors too.

    I like this theory. I just have no idea. Which is odd, since a lot of organizations with less than a millionth the resources are pretty effective at contact tracing.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  62. Something pretty bad is going on with the beginning of his illness.

    Something incompetent maybe.

    SF: Dana thinks, if I understood her correctly, that it was a church group (maybe more than one infected person) who spread the infection at the ceremony announcing the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett on Sept 25. Even though it was held outdoors in the daytime – but then people mingled indoors too.

    I like this theory. I just have no idea. Which is odd, since a lot of organizations with less than a millionth the resources are pretty effective at contact tracing.

    Oh the CDC was getting ready to go, but it’s being done by the White House medical unit, which doesn’t seem to be interest in history/lessons learned.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  63. Since the virus mutates slightly, maybe once every 4 transmissions, I’d be interested 0 and they should be – if anyoe had an earlier version of the virus.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  64. Since the virus mutates slightly, maybe once every 4 transmissions, I’d be interested 0 and they should be – if anyoe had an earlier version of the virus.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/7/2020 @ 1:53 pm

    Kinda sad that Stephen Miller’s wife had it, and he didn’t get it, right? A lot of these admin guys seem to be lonely and perhaps out of step with Americans with decent home-life.

    I guess that goes with the DC territory.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  65. Is it just me, or is it really curious that I didn’t hear about any Dems getting sick catching this virus since Trump’s announcement last week? I guess not only does the virus know if you’re a “peaceful protester,” it must also know the difference between elephants and jacka$$es.

    Gryph (f63000)

  66. @66-
    I am guessing is that Democrats are more likely to wear masks and take other precautions than Republicans, especially since none were invited to the Rose Garden Massacre.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  67. @66, Dems haven’t been asked to lick doorknobs as a loyalty test. That’s probably helping them.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  68. 67. “Massacre.” That’s not unnecessarily politically/emotionally charged language at all. LOLOL

    Gryph (f63000)

  69. Is it just me, or is it really curious that I didn’t hear about any Dems getting sick catching this virus since Trump’s announcement last week? I guess not only does the virus know if you’re a “peaceful protester,” it must also know the difference between elephants and jacka$$es.

    It is just you.

    Weird how people that take basic precautions against contracting a disease, didn’t get the thing that people actively trying to get it got. Weird…as in not at all.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  70. 68. Well, I guess if you’re that positive that the demented Joe Biden isn’t a window-licking half-wit, more power to you.

    Gryph (f63000)

  71. @69-
    That description is far and wide over the Internet and here.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  72. 70. I trust you’ll be voting a straight Democratic ticket, since the Dems are/would be so much better at maintaining public health policy than the Republicans have been so far.

    I don’t wear a mask as a rule, and I haven’t gotten sick yet. I even live up here in hicksville South Dakota, which itself is practically a death sentence!/

    Gryph (f63000)

  73. 72. I’ve noticed.. That seems to be how you can tell the blind Trump hate from the rational people out there.

    Gryph (f63000)

  74. 68. Well, I guess if you’re that positive that the demented Joe Biden isn’t a window-licking half-wit, more power to you.

    Gryph (f63000) — 10/7/2020 @ 2:13 pm

    He wasn’t so demented that Trump was able to win the debate. I get it, beating Trump in a debate isn’t the height of intellectual prowess….but it’s what we’ve got.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  75. @74-
    I prefer Rose Garden Plague, since soooo many of the participants came down with COVID-19.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  76. 75. By what standards didn’t Trump win the debate? Or more to the point, what makes you think Biden won? In case you haven’t noticed by now, I find Biden and Trump equally odious, execrable individuals, though for different reasons I won’t elaborate on.

    And when I say “demented,” i mean demented in the clinical sense of losing his mental faculties. Say what you will about Trump’s eminent domain abuse and his tendancy to stiff creditors in and out of bankrupcy court, but at least The Donald(TM) doesn’t come across to me as someone suffering from Alzheimer’s or Lewy Body Dementia.

    Gryph (f63000)

  77. Maybe we should start calling it the White House Virus?

    Time123 (66d88c)

  78. 76. I wonder how many other “plague’s” kill 0.0013 percent of the people that catch them…

    Gryph (f63000)

  79. 78. Yeah, because not a single person would have died of CoViD-19 with Hillary in the White House. It’s all The Donald’s fault./

    SMDH

    Gryph (f63000)

  80. “I wonder how many other “plague’s” kill 0.0013 percent of the people that catch them…”

    Oh, we’re doing this again.

    Davethulhu (f7bb9b)

  81. @77, based on this Fox News report.

    Can also look at this from 538.

    I get what you’re saying…but whatever Trump has going on in his brain seemed to even things out.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  82. I trust you’ll be voting a straight Democratic ticket, since the Dems are/would be so much better at maintaining public health policy than the Republicans have been so far.

    You could just replace democrat with adult and it’s true.

    I don’t wear a mask as a rule, and I haven’t gotten sick yet. I even live up here in hicksville South Dakota, which itself is practically a death sentence!

    Yet, that is your actual key word. Also, your state is one of the most disease infested ones in the whole country, because people without common sense live there I guess. SD was isolated initially, so throw a party, and you did, and people got it, and more people got it, and Trump had a rally, and the state though a party for people all over the country, and more people got the covid, but since they didn’t get it in March, it’s all fine, and then more people got it, and then more people got it, but because one person that didn’t get it (yet) didn’t get it (yet) didn’t wear a mask…more people got it.

    Outbreak, redneck style.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  83. 78. Yeah, because not a single person would have died of CoViD-19 with Hillary in the White House. It’s all The Donald’s fault./

    SMDH

    Gryph (f63000) — 10/7/2020 @ 2:21 pm

    Thankfully the Russian Hackers spared us from a Hillary presidency. The price was a Trump presidency which is terrible. But when your choices are “Dumpster Fire” or “Sewer Leak” your’ not going to be happy. This year I think we’ve improved and “dry baloney sandwich on white bread that’s sat out since saturday” is on the menu.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  84. Two republican political operatives indicted in michigan for committing four counts of election fraud and interference. Jack burkman and jacob wohl charged with 4 felonies. Voter intimidation, election law violations and 2 counts of using a computer to commit election fraud and interference.

    asset (2e511c)

  85. “I wonder how many other “plague’s” kill 0.0013 percent of the people that catch them…”

    You’re talking about a cold then, because you’re not talking about Covid…as you know.

    Being a dense as stone hopefully makes you less likely to get it, because it’s definitely completely isolated knowledge from infecting you.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  86. OT: Flynn – Fifth Supplement in Support of Agreed Dismissal

    1/25/17 Notes FBI OGC lawyer notes.
    https://www.scribd.com/document/479125616/Flynn-Fifth-Supplement-in-Support-of-Agreed-Dismissal

    Key points:

    Logan Act: “no reasonable prosecutor” would proceed.

    Flynn call w/ Kislyak similar to “other transition teams”

    “First time to use [Logan Act]”

    TOP FBI lawyer James Baker:

    “How do you assess § 1001 (false statements) when you wouldn’t prosecute the underlying crime?”

    Big concession that this wasn’t about the broader Crossfire Hurricane investigation.

    Assessment of whether Flynn is in a “covert relationship w/ Russia”:
    “No, probably not based on facts to date and interview.”

    Will be necessary to compare this to the Flynn NSLs handled by Clinesmith. Possible predication issues.

    There’s also discusion on the dubious Russia “blackmail” theory emerge. Notable that there was no discussion of materiality.

    Also – concession that “we left [Flynn] in position to not correct record b/c we didn’t confront him”.

    whembly (c30c83)

  87. Biden has no events today; jet lag between Wilmington and Gettysburg is a b-tch, eh Joe?

    The ‘lid’ is on tight, like a saucepan full of steamed white rice, eh Joe?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  88. Maybe we should start calling it the White House Virus?

    That makes sense since we’re not allowed to call it the Wuhan Virus.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  89. Told you so.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. @88. Given the two old farts in play, “I would say the public thinks” is a helluva stretch. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. Maybe we should start calling it the White House Virus?

    That makes sense since we’re not allowed to call it the Wuhan Virus.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/7/2020 @ 2:31 pm

    It’s a free country. You can call it whatever you want. But, people can criticize you for it. If you’re the sensitive type or care deeply what people think that might be something to take into account.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  92. @90. Give the Nixon-Trump rhyme, it should be no surprise the White House is ‘bugged.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  93. I’m pretty sure that the WH doctor treating Trump is being paid for by the government. Is he still bound by confidentiality? Could Congress get the details if they asked?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  94. This was a classic example of a preventable error. The one person who should have been protected against a known danger was not along with his wife and staff members.

    Consider the deck of an aircraft carrier or an Emergency Department. Both deal with uncertainty in critical situations. The White House is no different.

    It is a given that people make mistakes. The way to minimize harm is to have a system where those mistakes are caught and corrected.

    Trump admin is highly top down. Dare to criticize or raise objections and you can be humiliated or fired. That is a recipe for disaster. In a functional system anyone of any rank should feel free to speak up and be heard. This has now been well learned in the airline industry for example.

    This is not a lesson I think Trump is capable of learning. He is already sending mixed messages as is his staff. Nobody knows what to say. This is not leadership it is insanity.

    BTW I am supporting and voting for Jo Jorgensen for president.

    Echo (e92c55)

  95. WH won’t say.

    Be fair, you asked them not to lie.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  96. @96, good comment

    Time123 (66d88c)

  97. We already kind of do:
    Corrupt
    Orange
    Vermin
    In
    Dementia

    nk (1d9030)

  98. If you’re the sensitive type or care deeply what people think that might be something to take into account.

    Yeah, one would have to be overly sensitive to not want to be branded a racist on social media. I think the problem is the overly sensitive types in your camp, Time123, what do you think?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  99. @60. But where do you draw the line, Dana? When does the ‘right to know’ cross the line to being invasive and a nat’l security matter?– the stability of markets and so on is more important than the moment-to-moment tidbit gotchas on his illness. The ‘tick-tock’ on his health- -which in today’s partisan cable news universe of mindless endless talking heads hour after hour- is only about feeding The Beast.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. 96.This was a classic example of a preventable error.

    So was the Gulf of Tonkin, Pickett’s Charge, Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin… and 9/11.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. ^Yes, Gulf of Tonkin in stereo for the Left and Right channels. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  102. I think you should say what you like and stop whining about being controlled. Plenty of examples of people calling it Wuhan virus online.

    Time123 (e0a71b)

  103. BTW I am supporting and voting for Jo Jorgensen for president.

    Echo (e92c55) — 10/7/2020 @ 2:36 pm

    As choices go in this s—show you could do worse than that.

    Kanye’s write in campaign is not really getting off the ground.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  104. But be sure to call it the flu when you call your doctor because you have a fever and a cough.

    nk (1d9030)

  105. With Apologies to Lynn Anderson…

    “I beg your pardon; I gave you Covid in the Rose Garden…’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. By what standards didn’t Trump win the debate? Or more to the point, what makes you think Biden won?

    Lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololo
    lolololollolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololo

    …. Whoo boy…. Thanks…. I needed that….

    based on this Fox News report. Can also look at this from 538.

    C’mon, Time123. Fivetheiryeight is Deep State, and Fox News has totally cucked out. There’s only one honest pollster left: Rasmussen. Let’s see what they say.

    Uh oh.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  107. OK, I have to watch the game now. I’m counting on gryph for an antiseptically disinterested review of the debate.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  108. Prestigious medical journal calls for US leadership to be voted out over Covid-19 failure

    “This crisis has produced a test of leadership. With no good options to combat a novel pathogen, countries were forced to make hard choices about how to respond. Here in the United States, our leaders have failed that test. They have taken a crisis and turned it into a tragedy,” the editorial says.

    […]

    “Anyone else who recklessly squandered lives and money in this way would be suffering legal consequences. Our leaders have largely claimed immunity for their actions. But this election gives us the power to render judgment,” the editorial says. “When it comes to the response to the largest public health crisis of our time, our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent. We should not abet them and enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing them to keep their jobs.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  109. > many here are blowing off the many more hundreds of thousands dead around the world

    I don’t think we are. But we are all very aware of the fact that the US represents 5% of the world’s population and 20% of the world’s confirmed cases.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  110. Gryph, at 80: I think it’s reasonably certain that a Clinton administration would have mandated mask wearing in the west wing, that Hillary would have worn a mask herself while at work, and that events like the rose garden superspreader event either wouldn’t have happened at all or would have been masked and socially distanced.

    That’s what I’d expect from any normal administration.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  111. Quinnipiac:

    FLORIDA: Biden 51%, Trump 40%

    PENNSYLVANIA: Biden 54%, Trump 41%

    IOWA: Biden 50%, Trump 45%

    Of course, it’s all too tempting to believe polls that show what you want to see, but … wow.

    Dave (1bb933)

  112. Dustin, at 105 — wierdly, in California, Kanye is running for *vice* President. On the AIP ticket.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  113. >Is it just me, or is it really curious that I didn’t hear about any Dems getting sick catching this virus since Trump’s announcement last week? I guess not only does the virus know if you’re a “peaceful protester,” it must also know the difference between elephants and jacka$$es.

    It’s not curious at all. High profile Democrats are generally behaving responsibly with respect to the virus. Trump, his administration, and his campaign generally are not, and since they interact with other Republicans, they’re infecting a bunch of their allies.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  114. But we are all very aware of the fact that the US represents 5% of the world’s population and 20% of the world’s confirmed cases.

    Yeah, you would have to believe countries like Russia, China, India, Brazil, Vietnam, etc. are reporting out accurate numbers. I don’t. Do you?

    There is a desire to overstate the state of the pandemic here that matches Trump’s desire to understate it.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  115. Which game, Lurker?

    urbanleftbehind (ade68e)

  116. There is a desire to overstate the state of the pandemic here that matches Trump’s desire to understate it.

    Wait, so you mean despite extraordinary mitigation that cost 20 million jobs, COVID hasn’t killed more Americans in 6 months than were lost in WW1, on its way to passing the total for WW2? That’s great news.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  117. 117. Rays v Yankees.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  118. Wait, so you mean despite extraordinary mitigation that cost 20 million jobs, COVID hasn’t killed more Americans in 6 months than were lost in WW1, on its way to passing the total for WW2?

    No, I meant you don’t understand English that well.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  119. There is a desire to overstate the state of the pandemic here that matches Trump’s desire to understate it.

    So state it, if someone here is understating it. State it, use your words.

    Pick an argument, state it, back it. I’ll bet you’ll just…squirrel…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  120. No, I meant you don’t understand English that well.

    Enlighten me, snack food sage.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  121. Donald Trump Is Canceling TV Ads In Midwest States That Made Him President
    ……
    He’s been off the local airwaves completely in Iowa and Ohio. The campaign also has given up at least $2 million worth of reservations in both Michigan and Wisconsin since early September. And in Minnesota, a state Trump almost won four years ago and has expressed confidence in flipping, his team already has chopped about $5 million from its projected fall TV budget.
    ……
    As Trump’s retreat in Iowa and Ohio became more pronounced this week, his advisers dismissed it as a sign of strength, despite polls that show him essentially tied with Biden in both states. And Biden’s campaign has accelerated its advertising in Ohio, which at the beginning of the 2020 cycle many Democrats did not believe would be a top-tier swing state.

    “I don’t think the spin is in any way congruent with the reality,” Nicholas Everhart, an Ohio-based Republican ad maker, told BuzzFeed News. “There’s no reason why [Trump] would not be wanting to be on the air in those states, particularly Ohio, at this moment. Clearly there are some unpleasant financial realities impacting the strategic decisions they are making.”
    ……
    “I think Ohio is kind of the head and neck of the Midwest,” Michael Hartley, a Republican strategist in Ohio, told BuzzFeed News “In 2016 [Trump] won by 8, and I think there was carryover into neighboring states like Pennsylvania and Michigan. It’s the same type of folks, the demographics are similar. Western Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin have very similar people, particularly when you get into the working class. Shave a couple percentage points off that, and that could matter. If I see Trump winning Ohio by 6 to 8 points, then I think it means he’s winning nationally. Obviously if he loses Ohio, it’s Bad News Bears all around.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  122. White House Quietly Told Vets Group It Might Have Exposed Them to COVID
    On the same day President Donald Trump acknowledged contracting the coronavirus, the White House quietly informed a veterans group that there was a COVID-19 risk stemming from a Sept. 27 event honoring the families of fallen U.S. service members, the head of that charitable organization told The Daily Beast.

    The Sept. 27 event to honor Gold Star families came the day after the White House hosted a celebration for Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett that appears to have been an early source of the White House outbreak, though West Wing officials have quietly disputed that linkage. It is unclear to the head of the veterans charity—the Greatest Generations Foundation—which participant’s potential positive coronavirus test sparked the warning.
    ……
    Pictures from the Gold Star family event, which Trump attended, show minimal mask wearing and social distancing. It took place indoors, though attendees said they were tested prior to attending……
    …..
    The Gold Star families event was attended by the vice commandant of the Coast Guard, Adm. Charles W. Ray. The Pentagon announced on Tuesday that Ray tested positive for coronavirus, prompting “self-quarantining” from several members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and other senior military leaders Ray met with last week. Also at the event were Defense Secretary Mark Esper, who has tested negative, and Army Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
    …….
    Trump’s war on the military.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  123. 73. There’s a great spike in Covid cases in North dakota.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  124. But we are all very aware of the fact that the US represents 5% of the world’s population and 20% of the world’s confirmed cases.

    Yeah, you would have to believe countries like Russia, China, India, Brazil, Vietnam, etc. are reporting out accurate numbers. I don’t. Do you?

    There is a desire to overstate the state of the pandemic here that matches Trump’s desire to understate it.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/7/2020 @ 4:28 pm

    This is a good point. Much of the world lives in places we’re not going to get reliable data from. The stat is bogus.
    There are better stats that restrict the comparison to just developed countries. They show we’ve done really really badly.

    COUNTRY DEATHS/100K POP.
    Peru 102.64
    Belgium 88.36
    Bolivia 71.84
    Brazil 70.41
    Chile 69.78
    Spain 69.53
    Ecuador 68.5
    Mexico 65.26
    US 64.46
    United Kingdom 63.97
    Italy 59.62
    Sweden 57.77
    Luxembourg 21.06
    Oman 20.5
    Israel 20.23
    Dominican Republic 20.22
    Costa Rica 20.08
    Portugal 19.76

    Time123 (af99e9)

  125. ‘Where are all of the arrests?’: Trump demands Barr lock up his foes
    Donald Trump mounted an overnight Twitter blitz demanding to jail his political enemies and call out allies he says are failing to arrest his rivals swiftly enough.

    Trump twice amplified supporters’ criticisms of Attorney General William Barr, including one featuring a meme calling on him to “arrest somebody!” He wondered aloud why his rivals, like President Barack Obama, Democratic nominee Joe Biden and former Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton hadn’t been imprisoned for launching a “coup” against his administration.

    “Where are all of the arrests?” Trump said, after several dozen tweets on the subject over the past 24 hours. “Can you imagine if the roles were reversed? Long term sentences would have started two years ago. Shameful!”
    …….
    The review Barr ordered has disappointed Trump in recent weeks as the U.S. attorney tapped to lead it, John Durham, has signaled he might not pursue the kinds of high-profile prosecutions the president and his allies are demanding. Durham’s deputy in the review, veteran Justice Department prosecutor Nora Dennehy, recently quit the faltering effort and returned to the private sector.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  126. Prestigious medical journal calls for US leadership to be voted out over Covid-19 failure

    And we want more grant money please. I, myself, want the Chinese leadership voted out of office. And then hauled before the World Court for crimes against humanity and over a million dead. Whatever you want to say about how Trump handled it, only the Chinese could have stopped it from spreading. It had filled all the hospitals in Italy before it took off here. Trump had nothing to do with that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  127. Show some respect, Sammy.

    After trailing the poseurs in Fake Dakota to the north for a month or two, Real Dakota has moved back into the national lead in new cases per capita, with a 27% increase in the last week!

    Their rate of 58 new cases per 100K per day puts them at 4.5 times the national average, despite being one of the most sparsely populated states in the country.

    They really deserve a shout out from President Trump for picking up the slack for all those loser states where people wear masks to help keep the numbers down.

    Dave (1bb933)

  128. weirdly, in California, Kanye is running for *vice* President. On the AIP ticket

    AIP is the remains of George Wallace’s 1968 segregationist ticket. More than simply weird.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  129. There are better stats that restrict the comparison to just developed countries.

    Brazil, Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Mexico, Dominican Republic, etc. are developed countries. I mean, like, LOL

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  130. But we are all very aware of the fact that the US represents 5% of the world’s population and 20% of the world’s confirmed cases.

    Oooooo! I have a bridge you might want!

    China reports a death rate of 1 in 250,000 people, about 200 times lower than anyone else. 1) they are lying or 2) they had a vaccine ready before the outbreak. The claim 5000 dead, but the likely number is a million in China alone.

    And then there’s Africa where numbers don’t really work.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  131. Luxembourg 21.06
    Oman 20.5
    Israel 20.23
    Dominican Republic 20.22
    Costa Rica 20.08
    Portugal 19.76

    I’ll have countries nobody goes to (or is allowed to go to) for $1000, Alex!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  132. They show we’ve done really really badly.

    Bull*hit. The statistics show us at the low end of major countries that aren’t lying. Almost everyone below us on that list has little interaction with the world.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  133. Of course, if China admitted a million dead, their people would assume the real number is 20 million.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  134. BnP & Kevin, if you want more counties we consider peers (e.g Germany ) you have to scroll way way way down the list. The countries near us on the list are telling.

    Time123 (e0a71b)

  135. If we left it up to Trump and his liars in the Coronavirus Task Force, the CDC, and the rest of the alphabet, our statistics would be as fake as China’s. Thankfully, state and local governments and state and local public and private health providers are cooperating to give us the real numbers. (With the possible exception of a few Deep Orange states like Florida, Georgia, and Milbank.)

    nk (1d9030)

  136. And I’m sure it’s a big comfort to the families of Trump’s victims that percentage-wise Jair Balsonaro and Xi Jinping have killed more people than Trump has. 210,000 dead Americans in six months is 210,000 too many.

    nk (1d9030)

  137. The BS stat is 5% of population and 20% of deaths worldwide, not “peer” countries. So, whittling things down to Germany doesn’t change that’s it’s a BS stat, convincing only to the crack and freebasing set.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  138. The BS stat is 5% of population and 20% of deaths worldwide, not “peer” countries. So, whittling things down to Germany doesn’t change that’s it’s a BS stat, convincing only to the crack and freebasing set.

    So? What is your thesis? Say it.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  139. Debate night.

    Translation for Chicago viewers: DA-bate Night

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  140. Breaking- Woman of color see in Utah.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  141. BnP & Kevin, if you want more counties we consider peers (e.g Germany ) you have to scroll way way way down the list. The countries near us on the list are telling.

    Different cultures, different results. Take our terrible Medicaid nursing homes out of it ad we drop quite a few places. In Germany, they follow orders. Etc. THe fact remains that if China had done even a little bit of what they were legally, ethically and morally bound to do, the number in the rest of the world would have been nil.

    Instead, a million non-Chinese are dead. But, blame Trump if it lets you have your simple answer.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  142. Does Kamala own a dress or only wear HRC hand-me-downs?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  143. So? What is your thesis? Say it.

    There are 2 million dead, half in China. They lied about it at the beginning, in the middle, now, and will lie about it forever. Their Internet will block the word Covid before too long.

    So, out of 20% of the world’s population, they have half the deaths, and they aimed the spread of this disease at us, so that they would not suffer alone.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  144. Greatest failure?

    Kamala missed 9/11– and hasn’t read the Pentagon Papers.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  145. And I’m sure it’s a big comfort to the families of Trump’s victims that percentage-wise Jair Balsonaro and Xi Jinping have killed more people

    No, Xi killed ALL of them. Every last dead American is the result of Xi’s intentional acts.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  146. Almost everyone below us on that list has little interaction with the world.

    Which of the following countries is undeveloped, unreliable, or has little interaction with the world?

    Canada 25.86
    Portugal 19.76
    Germany 11.54
    Denmark 11.44
    Finland 6.27
    Norway 5.17
    Australia 3.59
    Japan 1.27
    South Korea 0.82
    Singapore 0.48

    Again, that’s deaths per 100k population, with US at 64.46. Note those countries all have less than half our fatality rate. Omitted are some with the best numbers, e.g., NZ and Iceland, which could be argued too remote.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  147. @133 I’ve been to both Portugal and Luxembourg. I even met the US ambassador to Luxembourg at the time. They are quite lovely, though Luxembourg is fairly crowded and there can be hellacicous traffic jams. Portugal has very nice beaches, cool historical architecture, and an interesting castle complex just outside of Lisbon.

    (I am not watching the debate right now, I had a very frustrating and long day of idiots and my attitude is too FOAD to do any justice to the debate right now. I might watch the rebroadcast later tonight.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  148. I can’t even. Does anybody want to tell Kevin whom we elect every four years to protect America from foreign enemies, and not only to make beautiful trade deals with those enemies, call the threat a Democrat hoax to bring down the stock market and hurt his reelection, and do everything he can every day to downplay the threat, bury our heads in the sand, and stymie every effort to fight off that threat?

    nk (1d9030)

  149. Omitted are some with the best numbers, e.g., NZ and Iceland, which could be argued too remote.

    That said, New Zealand had 25 new cases last week. The White House had 34. New Zealand isn’t that remote.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  150. Kevin and BnP,

    1. I agree that the 5% population / 20% of deaths stat is junk. We’re doing poorly, but we’re not doing *that* poorly.
    2. I think China did terribly at the start of this and they’re to blame for much of the late start. What happened to Italy and Spain would have been different had China been properly transparent. But that impact has waned and our performance today can’t be attributed to that. If you look at this chart you can see that Italy and Spain had an early start, a rapid climb and then flattened out.
    3. If you want to just look at how we did relative to the G7 it’s pretty bad. The biggest problem is that we’ve never been able to flatten the curve. Our deaths per-capita just continue to climb.

    COUNTRY DEATHS/100K POP.
    US 64.74
    United Kingdom 64.08
    Italy 59.67
    France 48.46
    Canada 25.89
    Germany 11.55
    Japan 1.28

    Bottom line, we’ve done really poorly relative to our peers and our leadership has a lot of blame in that.

    As a pre-emptive; putting sick patients in nursing homes was a tragic mistake that accounts for much of our early fatalities. It doesn’t account for our current performance.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  151. nk @137

    . (With the possible exception of a few Deep Orange states like Florida, Georgia, and Milbank.)

    Milbank?

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  152. Again, what is Milbank?

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  153. Sorry, Sammy, just saw your comment. It’s a city in South Dakota.

    nk (1d9030)

  154. the brits weren’t that much smarter in soviet russia, reilly, the real james bond, sought he could pull off an uprising, but he counted on the latvian guard, who was felix’s man, so everyone fell in the net, a couple of years later, felix created the trust, a fake antibolshevik outfit, it ultimately caught reilly and his man savinkov, legend says before he died he gave tips on how to approach the british secret service like the cambridge four,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  155. https://www.the-sun.com/news/1607608/donald-trump-coronavirus-interview-fox-news-siegel/

    Apparently Trump has not tested negative for COVID. A weird admission, but there it is. He’s just not taking the test.

    Dustin (4237e0)


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