Trump Falsely Claims That “Anybody” Who Needs a Coronavirus Test “Gets a Test”
The Los Angeles Times reports on the testing kit shortfall that is hampering health professionals’ ability to respond to the coronavirus outbreak:
Federal officials said nearly 1 million tests were expected to be available by the end of this week. But in California, one of the country’s hardest-hit regions with 60 cases, the total testing capacity is limited to only 7,400 through the weekend, according to the California Department of Public Health.
The inability to test widely and swiftly for the novel coronavirus has impeded the country’s ability to beat back the spread of the virus, experts say. Without testing, public health officials don’t know where the virus is spreading and where to target efforts to contain it. Twelve Americans have been killed so far by the disease.
The shortage of test kits as well as lab staffing to screen for the virus are creating chaos for doctors and nurses as their triage efforts are complicated by testing restrictions and shortfalls.
Meanwhile, Donald Trump claimed today (quite falsely) that, as of yesterday, everyone who wanted to be tested is getting tested:
President Trump: "Anybody right now and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They're there. They have the tests and the tests are beautiful." pic.twitter.com/r3Uh4HgbFC
— The Hill (@thehill) March 6, 2020
Anybody right now and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. They have the tests and the tests are beautiful. If there’s a doctor that wants to test, if there’s somebody coming off a ship like the big monster ship that’s out there right now, which you know again, that’s a big decision. Do I wanna bring all of those people on? People would like me to do that. I don’t like the idea of doing it.
That is, again, quite simply, not true.
[S]enior director of infection prevention for the Johns Hopkins Health System Dr. Lisa Maragakis told Congress Friday that tests need to made available as quickly as is feasible.
“Testing capacity is not currently adequate and we need more,” Maragakis said. “We need this as soon as we can have it.”
By the way, why doesn’t Trump want to bring people from the “big monster ship” onto the mainland? I’ll tell you why: because he believes that would double the number of cases on the mainland, and he doesn’t want the statistics to double because he doesn’t consider the cases on the ship to be his fault. If someone were to think I am making an unfair statement about Trump’s motivations, that person would be wrong. Trump actually said this today:
"I like the numbers being where they are. I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship" — Trump explains that he doesn't want to let people off the Grand Princess cruise ship because he doesn't want the number of coronavirus cases in the country to go up pic.twitter.com/ELhZDjiZW9
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) March 6, 2020
They would like to have the people come off. I’d rather have the people stay but I’d go with them. I told them to make the final decision.
I would rather because I like the numbers being where they are. I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault.
The voters will decide if that seems like a good reason to advocate for sick passengers staying on a ship when health professionals want them off.
I like the reference to the Ukranian phone call. It reminds voters of another decision they must make: whether Trump puts the interests of the country first, or his own petty interests.
Trump puts Trump first. He only helps Americans when it is useful to him.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/6/2020 @ 10:20 pmEqually amazing as Trump’s narcissism is how his diehard supporters don’t seem to notice or care.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/6/2020 @ 10:24 pmI work at a school. A SCHOOL! And I have 2 coworkers who were sent home for 10 days by their doctors because they are both sick as hell and their respective doctors couldn’t say for sure if what they had was Corona Virus because they couldn’t get tests. A. SCHOOL.
Nic (896fdf) — 3/6/2020 @ 10:32 pm“Equally amazing as Trump’s narcissism is how his diehard supporters don’t seem to notice or care.”
DRJ (15874d) — 3/6/2020 @ 10:24 pm
Leveraging a healthcare tragedy (pretty much unstoppable with or without sufficient test kits) for petty political gain hardly sets an anti-narcissistic example.
It’s not as if he’s strumming a guitar while people suffer, right?
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/6/2020 @ 10:45 pmPlaying guitar? Probably not. Fundraising? Absolutely.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/6/2020 @ 10:51 pmA song and dance is *exactly* what he’s performing.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/6/2020 @ 10:56 pm“It reminds voters…”
Yes, in case it wasn’t plainly clear, this is what it’s all about.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/6/2020 @ 10:57 pmAs far as Trump’s narcissism goes, it was on spectacular display today, because no matter what the situation is, no matter how dire it may be, he can always find a way to make it all about him :
Dana (4fb37f) — 3/6/2020 @ 10:57 pmWhat a vile, pathetic excuse for a human being.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/6/2020 @ 11:00 pmSo how long does it take the cultists to realize someone actually competent needs to be running response here? Is it a raw number of dead, or maybe it’ll take someone famous kicking it?
Or maybe it’ll be a combination of the 401K in the toilet with the realization that vulnerable oldsters don’t vote Republican when they’re dead (outside of parts of North Carolina, Missouri and Florida).
john (cd2753) — 3/6/2020 @ 11:07 pmTrump supporters: “Pay attention to what he does, not what he says.”
Also Trump supporters: “How dare you criticize his mind-boggling ignorance, incompetence and denial in the face of a spiraling global health crisis!”
Dave (1bb933) — 3/6/2020 @ 11:12 pmBecause “someone actually competent” would stop or even hinder a novel virus from spreading.
Pathetic. You don’t care about the suffering. Only the votes. As with everything else, you are exactly what you criticize Trump of being.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/6/2020 @ 11:48 pmTrump put Mike Pence in charge of the coronavirus response. Apparently even Trump releases he doesn’t have the time, ability, patience, concentration or competence to deal with this.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/6/2020 @ 11:52 pmIf coronavirus fizzles out come warmer weather, will #NeverTrump depression hit Mueller Report nothingburger level, failed impeachment vote level, or failed WWIII level?
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/7/2020 @ 12:02 amI hope this goes away, for everyone’s sake.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 12:27 amCorona will be Trump’s honey badger.
Dow down several thousand? Corona don’t care.
Glenn (a56320) — 3/7/2020 @ 12:49 amSXSW shut down? Corona don’t care.
Test kits not available? Corona don’t care.
Exponential increase in confirmed cases? Corona don’t care.
Exponential increase in deaths?Corona don’t care.
Lousy statistics and ratings? Corina don’t care.
Incompetent president? Corona don’t care.
Doctor who treated first US coronavirus patient says COVID-19 has been ‘circulating unchecked’ for weeks:
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 1:12 amIt takes a special kind of insecurity to think all the people who don’t agree with you about some lame politician are going to be sad if we don’t have a horrible epidemic of death.
Get help.
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/7/2020 @ 1:25 amLike I said in the other thread, the orange thing has crossed the line from demented to evil. His supporters … they’re no better than they should be, not worth a word.
nk (9651fb) — 3/7/2020 @ 1:33 amHey Munroe, what’s that written on the hat Trump is wearing during his visit/media event at the CDC?
I can’t tell for sure but is it, uh, some sort of slogan?
Dave (1bb933) — 3/7/2020 @ 3:09 amWhile I don’t think there’s any point in everyone getting a test, that Trump doesn’t know this is concerning.
Does he realize this has been a successful biological attack with plausible deniability that it came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology that undermines the world economy and his election as part of the continuing coup against and he’s in denial about it working or is he just not informed about the status of actions against COVID-19 or did his memory slip?
The reality is this virus will spread faster than our ability to stop it.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 4:01 amPerhaps he doesn’t want to double the number of cases in the US because they will inevitably expose some additional people to the virus. He was also early to stop flights from China, a month ago, against professional advice, and for which he was criticized by Schumer and Biden, but he probably made the right call in that case.
The testing shortage, due to CDC bullshit, is problematic. It is not directly Trump’s fault, but he has failed to get the bureaucrats at CDC to change their position, and after a while one could say he owns it.
David Pittelli (7d543e) — 3/7/2020 @ 5:09 amCan’t he just STFU and let someone else be the spokesman here?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 6:53 amEverywhere that Trump goes, people should make a point to cough.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 6:53 am“Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability.”
Or maybe it’s one disease recognizing another?
No, that’s too harsh. T-rump is a human. A deeply pathological, broken man-child who can screw with the lives of billions of people at a whim. But a human.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 6:57 amIt is indeed better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. That is a lesson Trump apparently never learned.
Gryph (08c844) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:02 amWhile the nation has focused its attention on the virus, no one noticed that Ms. Gabbard doubled her delegate count since Super Tuesday. It’s yet another example sexism and misogynism by Democrats against female candidates!
Trump lies about everything, so presume every word that comes out of his orifice is false until proven true (yes, I’ve said it before). The Atlantic has a piece which shows that, as of yesterday, only 1,900± tests have actually occurred, so Trump is telling a bald-faced lie when he says that, “Anybody right now and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. They have the tests…”
Trump is also lying through his whitened teeth when he blamed the Obama administration for the trickle of test kits coming out.
South Korea is doing it right. They’re actually testing everybody who wants a test. They’re even testing people going through drive-thru lanes. Their government is showing leadership, Trump is not. It’s almost as if our president is withholding test kits so as to lowball the actual number of cases.
The lack of testing is helping cause an overreaction to the virus because, especially here in the Seattle area, we have no clue who’s picked it up and who’s not. The reality is that it’s not that lethal.
The mortality rate in the country that’s doing it right, South Korea, is 0.6%. The following is also relevant:
The high number of asymptomatics is all the more reason to get a flood of test kits out. A real leader would’ve done so and not gone on sprees of making sh*t up.
Paul Montagu (8497cf) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:03 amAs always, “The Wire” — Juking the Stats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH_6_8NOfwI
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:04 amNo, that’s too harsh. T-rump is a human. A deeply pathological, broken man-child who can screw with the lives of billions of people at a whim. But a human.
Perhaps he needs someone standing behind him, who whispers ‘Remember you are mortal’ from time to time. It used to be the thing.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:07 amYep. And get some bullet points from people who have a clue.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:09 am28. Didn’t we have at least one US president back in the day who kept a memento mori at his desk? Might have been Lincoln, but I honestly don’t remember who.
Gryph (08c844) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:09 amIt takes a special kind of insecurity to think all the people who don’t agree with you about some lame politician are going to be sad if we don’t have a horrible epidemic of death.
True. Also, it takes a special kind of hatred for people to seek advantage out of a horrible epidemic of death. The derangement isn’t specific to sides, but to the incredibly broken system, and it didn’t start with Trump.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:11 amOT: One of the things I particularly like about this blog is the (generally) high quality of the commenters. Even those I usually disagree with.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:16 amWelp, as I said back in 2015, Americans have twice in a row elected a pathological narcissistic asphole…maybe it’s a trend.
“If you like your doctor, you can keep you doctor.”
“If you want a test, you can have a test.”
There’s a symmetry there…
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:16 amDon’t you mean five times running?
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:17 amthe orange thing has crossed the line from demented to evil.
Oh, I ascribe most of this to willfulness, stupidity and ignorance myself. Evil takes effort.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:17 am34. I’ve never been a big fan of the Bush family myself, but W. was nowhere near Obama or Trump on the narcissism scale.
Gryph (08c844) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:18 am34. No. I mean what I say. Any comparison between W and the Orange Racoon is just being moronic.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:20 amDon’t you mean five times running?
The Bushes were many things, but neither of them was narcissistic. Dad was maybe a bit arrogant, but he was also a man of accomplishment. W was neither arrogant or narcissistic, although his humility might have been justified.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:21 amBoth evil as hell, but with a different public persona.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:22 amBoth evil as hell, but with a different public persona.
I don’t think any president since, oh, LBJ, has been “evil.”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:24 am“South Korea is doing it right.”
Paul Montagu (8497cf) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:03 am
Yeah Montagu, let’s follow South Korea’s lead, where the virus has spread much faster than here.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/06/more-scary-than-coronavirus-south-koreas-health-alerts-expose-private-lives
As the number of coronavirus cases in South Korea exceeded 6,000 this week, there was a rise, too, in complaints about information overload in the form of emergency virus text alerts that have included embarrassing revelations about infected people’s private lives.
Better yet, let’s follow China’s lead, where entire cities are closed down and people are dragged into quarantine.
A real leader would do this.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:25 am“Cases” are proportional to testing. More testing, more positive tests. That a country DOESN’T test well does not mean that there are no sick people. A failure to test is like lowering crime stats by not taking crime reports.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:26 amBetter yet, let’s follow China’s lead, where entire cities are closed down and people are dragged into quarantine.
Really?! Why not North Koreas’s, where they just shoot the infected?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:28 amIt’s obviously spreading, perhaps relatively slowly and at a small scale, perhaps not, through the local population.
Also, most people who get it may never bother getting tested. It has symptoms similar to a common cold for most people and is from the same family of viruses. Some with robust immune systems will hardly know they have anything.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:33 amHaving a “bug” closely related to another “bug” is scientifically irrelevant.
I think about every human on the planet has e.coli in their gut. It’s been considered a beneficial bug by food scientists.
Then, for no particular reason, one day a terribly pathogenic strain developed. Nature is funny like that.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:42 amWell, it’s not scientifically irrelevant, although it doesn’t mean that one species or strain can’t cause more problems than another. In this case, the symptoms are similar to that of a cold, and in succeptible people more severe. However, some people die from the common cold, also.
It happens, although we don’t know that nature didn’t receive assistance in this case.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:44 amReal leaders do it China’s way. You listening, America?
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3074087/never-mind-china-look-us-next-big-coronavirus
After locking down entire cities and placing tens of millions of citizens under quarantine, China’s authoritarian government has managed to put a lid on the proliferation of Covid-19 to quite an extent.
Yay!!
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:48 amIt has symptoms similar to a common cold for most people and is from the same family of viruses.
MUCH more like the flu.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:53 amObviously how organisms are related to each other is scientifically relevant. I think what you mean to say is that some genuses and species have elements that are beneficial, neutral, or pathogenic. No one disputes that, nor is it a huge revalation to anyone here.
Anyway, coronaviruses are often contagious and pathogenic, as it happens, so it’s kind of revevant in that sense, too.
But let’s not do the argue for the sake of arguing thing. If you can find something we disagree on, please limit your arguing to that.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:56 amAfter locking down entire cities and placing tens of millions of citizens under quarantine, China’s authoritarian government has managed to put a lid on the proliferation of Covid-19 to quite an extent.
Having control of the press and the internet sure helps, too.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:57 amThat is really funny, Kevin M 23. Well done.
Exactly, 33.
China’s first response was to ignore the virus, Munroe. Pretend everything was fine and criticize anyone who said otherwise. Like Trump is now.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:59 amCOVID-19: Fever, cough, body aches, vomiting
Flu: Fever, cough, body aches, vomiting
Cold: Cough, runny nose, sneezing, sore throat
Which of these things is not like the other things?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:00 amInterestingly, Spain successfully treated one patient using a combination of HIV and MS drugs. The medical literature shows researchers had been testing these drugs for other coronavirus diseases like SARS and MERS, which is probably why they tried it in Spain.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:04 am“China’s first response was to ignore the virus, Munroe. Pretend everything was fine and criticize anyone who said otherwise. Like Trump is now.”
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:59 am
Yes, and what was China’s second and third response, DRJ?
And, acknowledging the virus from the get go, rather than ignoring it, means what exactly? Jumping to the second and third responses more quickly? What? What would’ve prevented us from being where we are now? More test kits? LOL
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:05 amYour being selective in your choice of symptoms, Kevin (for example, cold sometimes causes fever and aches), as well as overlooking the main point I’m making. It isn’t that COVID-19 is never severe: it can clearly cause death.
It’s that it’s often mild, with symptoms similar to a common cold, and these people are probably not all going to bother to, or know to, get tested.
It runs a whole range of symptoms and most people won’t get the severe flu-like symptoms, although obviously many will.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:09 amIt means you recognize the urgency to give healthcare infrastructure time to prepare itself with staffing, supplies and plans. Our healthcare system is taxed during difficult flu seasons, and the coronavirus may be much more dangerous than the flu. Getting ready takes time that you don’t want to squander by being in denial.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:09 amIf you can find something we disagree on, please limit your arguing to that.
Look up the thread. You argue with me like you think it’s your job.
How organisms are related is NOT scientifically relevant to their propensity to cause disease in humans. This is the point I made contra your vapid observation that COVID-19 was related to the common cold, or whatever.
But, like the other day, I call on you to set aside your nasty alt-right nutburger side and give expression to your better nature. Oh, and learn to use spell-check.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:10 amMunroe, Trump can’t legally handle this the way dictatorships do and that is why he needs to be more informed, more organized, and more transparent — so our system can respond more effectively. Acting like all is well is fine if it is true, but the things he is saying aren’t true.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:23 amDRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:23 am
DRJ, I agree Trump should not downplay the potential crisis, but ultimately it’s not going to matter. The virus is more powerful than what we in a free society with civil liberties can do about it.
Politically motivated sniping, and pointing to a lack of test kits — as if this is the make or break issue determining whether the virus is controlled or not — also is not helpful, except for petty political gain.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:35 amYour being selective in your choice of symptoms, Kevin (for example, cold sometimes causes fever and aches)
No, I am ignoring the “slight” and “rare” symptoms of each. Fever and headaches are rare in colds, and other aches are “slight.”
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/coldflu.htm
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:36 amMunroe, the problem is that TRUMP looks at this as a political problem, and is so utterly transparent while doing so. Yes, it ultimately won’t matter what he says as far as the disease goes, but he IS spending an awful lot of time jamming his feet down his throat. In the end, his political problem will be that he treated it as a political problem. He should STFU and refer people to Pence.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:39 ami for one think the test kits are very beautiful
they make a thoughtful yet practical gift for any occasion
Dave (1bb933) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:46 amI think the fact that we can’t trust what the president says about a public health crisis during that crisis is a problem.
Time123 (4adfb5) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:47 amIt would be nice if he’s limit his sweeping, fantastical pronouncements, yeah. If he’s defeated coronavirus, he should come to NYC and defeat the rats.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:48 amI think the fact that we can’t trust what the president says about a
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:49 ampublic health crisis during thatcrisis is a problem.Free societies are the best equipped to respond because we have the power of markets, people, and innovation. Should we have ignored AIDS, Ebola, and SARS because they were too hard to deal with, or should we respond as seriously as we can?
That many people might die doesn’t mean we should throw our hands up and let even more die.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:51 am@DRJ 53: The majority of people with covid-19 recover with no one reporting a recovery rate of less than 90%. In fact, many people testing positive do not get terribly ill. One person who received an HIV drug and recovered may/may not mean anything.
Fred (2b8765) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:52 amMunroe yesterday: Obama never funded some virus research down in Texas.
Munroe today: Let’s not politicize this disease, making petty political points, an’ stuff.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:53 amIt may not mean anything but there is significant research using that drug in various coronavirus cases so it is interesting to me, Fred. Medicine is based on identifying and testing hypotheses, right?
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:55 am“Free societies are the best equipped to respond because we have the power of markets, people, and innovation.”
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:51 am
Of course. The vaccine is going to come from the West, likely from the U.S. Certainly not China.
That’s long term. That’s not what we’re talking about.
The time frame for sniping Trump critics is now thru the first Tuesday in November, right? Most likely not going to see a vaccine until after that, no matter what we do.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:00 amThe vexing question of who conservatives vote for in the 2020 presidential election
It’s never vexed me. I won’t vote for any Collectivist thug from either major party.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:05 amVaccines aren’t the only healthcare innovations that we can bring to help this. We are also good at logistics and basic healthcare delivery, but those things take time, too. Not years but weeks and months, so it isn’t good to waste the first two months with happy talk that isn’t true.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:07 am“Not years but weeks and months, so it isn’t good to waste the first two months with happy talk that isn’t true.”
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:07 am
So, you think all of that is being held up because of happy talk. C’mon.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:11 amAlso, Fred, it is way too soon to know what the recovery rate is for this. We aren’t testing much yet so we don’t know how widespread it is, what strains we are dealing with, or have any reliable data.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:11 amDRJ, noted a blurb yesterday that some “recovered” victims are relapsing. I’ve always been told by med-pros that a relapse can be more serious than the initial bout.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:14 amThe CDC clearly wasn’t ready. It could be the CDC decided this wasn’t a big deal. It could be the CDC is incompetent. It could be the Administration directed it not to act or delayed action. I don’t know why and neither do you, but the President sets the tone for his Administration. His initial approach was to be happy that he was sealing America off from the illness, not getting ready for its arrival.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:19 amOne person who had tested positive and recovered in the San Antonio quarantine, and was released, then tested positive again and had to go back into quarantine. I am not sure if it is a testing problem or this illness waxes and wanes. Both are troubling.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:22 am–Mayor Vaughn, Jaws
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:27 amThis is exactly the pattern of the Spanish Flu in 1918.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:28 amOne person who had tested positive and recovered in the San Antonio quarantine, and was released, then tested positive again
Well, if it’s an antibody test that’s to be expected. I still test positive for measles antibodies.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:28 amUnlike the Spanish flu, this thing kills the old and weak. The 1918 flu killed the young and healthy by stimulating an immune system overreaction.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:31 amEasy there.
Patterico (aa3be1) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:35 amImagine a Democrat making serially false assertions during a health crisis instead of a Republican. I submit it would not be ghoulish to hope for the electoral ouster of such a Democrat. Seeking the ouster of the Democrat might even be considered public-spirited.
In any event, if someone did express a desire for the ouster of such a Democrat, I would not tolerate someone criticizing that position by saying they don’t care about other people’s human suffering.
Patterico (aa3be1) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:40 amDo you consider Biden to be a collectivist thug?
Patterico (aa3be1) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:42 amIt’s obviously spreading, perhaps relatively slowly and at a small scale, perhaps not, through the local population.
Sure, but focusing on NUMBERS — as everyone seems to be doing — is silly in the extreme. Just because you can measure something doesn’t mean the measurement has meaning.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:43 amThe current CDC test kit is “Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time Reverse Transcriptase (RT)-PCR Diagnostic Panel”. (Wiki says: “Reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction is a laboratory technique combining reverse transcription of RNA into DNA and amplification of specific DNA targets using polymerase chain reaction” so I think the current test kit is based on RNA/DNA, not antibodies.) The CDC link says they are working on a serology (antibody) test for COVID-19 but it is too soon:
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:44 amDo you consider Biden to be a collectivist thug?
The people standing behind him are.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:45 amThanks, DRJ
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:46 amAnd telling multiple falsehoods about our state of preparedness.
Patterico (aa3be1) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:46 amEven the virus’ NAME is mutating.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:46 amAnd telling multiple falsehoods about our state of preparedness.
This assumes that he can tell sh1t from Shinola™
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:47 amNot to be confusing, the subject of who conservatives for in the 2020 presidential election was brought up on the weekend open thread.
Dana (4fb37f) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:50 amTrump’s giving false medical info and especially his believing it himself does nothing to reduce human suffering.
Sure, although electing a clearly senile President into office isn’t a good plan for doing that. The Democrats* must choose a credible Vice Presidential candidate for the good of the country because, if elected, Biden will not serve out his first term.
*I say “The Democrats” rather than “Joseph Biden,” because clearly they’re driving this train and propelling him across the finish line, because he can’t drive there himself.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:55 amI’d love for them to choose Jim Webb as his running mate: and it would be a diverse ticket—senile moron running with smart, principled old white guy.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:58 amThere are concerns about Biden’s mental stability but also about Trump’s. Which one will the Republicans stand up against if he does stupid, wrong, or dangerous things?
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:59 amAlthough the Dems best VP candidate would be William McRaven (who I don’t like).
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:00 amHe’s happy go lucky. I quibble with the term “mental stability.” It’s more like, “Does he know what’s happening?”
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:04 amThere are concerns about Biden’s mental stability
Nonsense. He’s a stable genius.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:06 amIf RBG were to be replaced soon, I’d have no problem with a Biden presidency (although the Senate would go blue, too, which is a problem after they nuke the filibuster).
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:08 amFrom the CDC’s guidance to laboratories issued today (PDF):
Helpful? Maybe. Not really. This is how it is with diseases like this. It is why an informed populace that doesn’t rely solely on experts is important.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:09 amYeah, I wondered even as I responded to it whether I was in the wrong thread.
Patterico (115b1f) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:10 amMunro, since you’re interested in the politics of this, as am I, and because Trump is clearly going to hit at Biden’s obvious mental lapses and gaffes and frank senility in the campaign, Trump really should avoid saying things like this when no serious person believes it. Coronavirus may be partially contained, even largely contained, but we don’t know that now and many of us are highly skeptical.
It isn’t just Trump’s opponents who are skeptical.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:10 amBill Whittle had a great video a few weeks back whose title escapes me. Essentially it was that with Trump you have an imperfect, unpolished, but aggressive fighter who’s instincts are more right than wrong on most things. But how Whittle described it made sense to me: with Trump it’s 5 steps forward, 4 steps back. Something like that.
He’s better than Biden, better than the Democratic Party writ large who basically would accelerate the destruction of the country, with 3 steps backward, 1 step forward if you’re lucky…
… but it could be better.
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:14 amBill Whittle’s website has given up on fiscal conservatism with our current leadership. I haven’t.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:20 amHypothetically:
No one serious would have a problem with that. Then, you execute it.
Now, I personally think the threat of COVID-19 is a bit overblown. It’s a killer, but so are many things and most people will get through it.
Nonetheless, you mitigate the problems as best as possible to save more lives and also keep the economy and rest of the country functioning (destroy the economy, you also weaken the ability to deal with this threat to lives and others in the future: the economy is a key factor in public health).
Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:23 amDo you consider Biden to be a collectivist thug?
Of course. Almost goes without saying, being a Deemocrat.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:40 amYeah, I wondered even as I responded to it whether I was in the wrong thread.
Sorry ’bout any confusion I caused.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:44 am13.Trump put Mike Pence in charge of the coronavirus response. Apparently even Trump releases he doesn’t have the time, ability, patience, concentration or competence to deal with this.
Know your Trump:
… the guy’s a germaphobe and wholly squeamish when it comes to dealing w/medical matters and so forth. Some people are like that–not that this excuses him at all from his responsibilities tending to the problem– it comes w/t job [recall Reagan’s initial indifference to the AIDS issue] but some people just don’t deal w/medical stuff well at all. Listen to Trump in hi on words discussing an incident at the Red Cross Ball as told to Howard Stern [and the listening radio audience] in 2008 about the elderly man bleeding on his Mar-A-Lago floor; it’s a glaring ‘tell’–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=defKZ3oZm-w
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/7/2020 @ 10:58 am95.There are concerns about Biden’s mental stability but also about Trump’s. Which one will the Republicans stand up against if he does stupid, wrong, or dangerous things?
Remember when Dole fell off the stage? Or Reagan was clearly befuddled in his debate?
This truly is– and must– become an issue when selecting increasingly aging people to hold positions of responsibility for public service as the longevity of life continues to grow particularly w/respect to mental competence. Back in the days of the Founders and primitive medical care [and a village idiot really was the village idiot]- life expectancy was significantly shorter; 35 was pegged as a mature age– today, it’s considered young.
As the speed and the complexities of modern 21st century life quickens, w/world ending thermonuclear weapons, planes, subs, missiles md destructive computer viruses- centuries beyond square-riggers and single shot Brown Bess muskets- we require mandatory retirement for people in positions where life and property are at risk- such as pilots. An significant testing in other professions and trades as well. And of course– states test drivers past a certain age for license renewal as a matter of public safety. So too should it be w/public office holders- especially given the high costs and risks involved in the decisions they make. [In the private sector, falling asleep in your seat on the job at the wheel of a bus can get you- and your passengers killed.]
Regardless of which political point of the compass you come from, certainly elements of the military testing procedures regarding mental competence should be applied to all these people past a specified age. People age differently, too; some would likely pass– but many would likely not.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/7/2020 @ 11:55 amBetter yet, let’s follow China’s lead, where entire cities are closed down and people are dragged into quarantine.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8086077/Hotel-China-holding-coronavirus-victims-quarantine-collapses.html
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 12:16 pmOr Reagan was clearly befuddled in his debate?
Yeah, someone had tried to make Reagan “Mr Statistics” rather then letting him be Mr Reagan. Didn’t work.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 12:17 pmYou misspelled Trump, the mentally deteriorating incumbent who is relevant to this comparison.
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/7/2020 @ 12:21 pmDumb
Dumb
It’s going to be so much fun hearing jaded Bernie Bros and hyperactive Trumpbots explain how it’s really bad to be an elderly creepy liar.
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/7/2020 @ 12:23 pmAnyone who believes that even one of those doctors was impressed by Trump’s medical and scientific knowledge is more mentally challenged than Biden.
Anyone who isn’t bothered by such absurd, self-serving fabulation clearly has a high level of comfort with gross dishonesty and/or delusional thought.
Radegunda (39c35f) — 3/7/2020 @ 12:25 pmI can easily believe that, for the good of the country, they flattered his ego in an effort to make him more sympathetic to their goals.
After all, it worked for Little Rocket Man and Vladimir Vladimirovich, and everyone else who’s ever tried it.
I’m a little surprised that a group of eight or nine big, strong, tough doctors didn’t break down in tears and tell him “Thank you sir,” though.
Damned ingrates.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/7/2020 @ 12:35 pmI’m a little surprised that a group of eight or nine big, strong, tough doctors didn’t break down in tears and tell him “Thank you sir,” though.
Those guys will materialize at his next rally address…and pretty much everyone thereafter.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 12:47 pmIt’s clear that some officials have tried to cater to Trump’s bottomless demand for flattery. But it’s unsettling when the NAID director says he needs to “walk the fine balance” between telling the truth — to the public — and not angering the president.
Trump defenders keep insisting that Trump’s pathological character doesn’t impair the performance of his duties. They have to believe that the way he constantly speaks of his priorities (i.e. “how does this make me look?”) has nothing to do with his actual priorities. Which is a bizarre position to take.
Radegunda (39c35f) — 3/7/2020 @ 1:56 pm@112. “There you go again…” that’s baloney.
He was displaying early symptoms of alz even then– and trying to excuse him with being filled with ‘too many statistics’ is just utterly bogus; for God’s sake, he was an actor who admitted ad-libbing and faking play-by-play sportscasting on radio when the wires were were down for long periods and routinely memorized pages and pages of lengthy, sometimes complex movie dialogue– and often ‘plagiarized’ lines from other films and peppered them though his campaigning and presidency. “I’m paying for this microphone” was lifted right out of Spencer Tracy’s dialogue from the 1948 Capra Hepburn/Tracy classic, ‘State Of The Union.’
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/7/2020 @ 2:08 pm@113. Reality bites; it’s ironic: he has more on the ball than Plagiarist JoeyBee…
He ran only once.
And won.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/7/2020 @ 2:13 pm“In any event, if someone did express a desire for the ouster of such a Democrat, I would not tolerate someone criticizing that position by saying they don’t care about other people’s human suffering.”
Patterico (aa3be1) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:40 am
All other things being equal, yes. But, that’s not the case.
Those that have spent the past three years looking for any reason— large or petty, half legit or totally bogus — to oust Trump have a credibility problem when they point to the crisis du jour as a yet another reason and expect it to not be perceived as driven by raw political calculation.
There was a Bush appointed judge who said as much recently in a FOI request related to Barr. I hear he won accolades.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/7/2020 @ 2:27 pmThe willingness of a large part of the public to disregard Trump’s mental derangement does not demonstrate that he is actually of sound mind.
Radegunda (39c35f) — 3/7/2020 @ 2:27 pmWhen Obama won twice, with substantial popular-vote majorities, most of today’s Trump apologists were probably saying it demonstrated how misguided a majority of the public could be.
Plagiarist JoeyBee’s endlessly empty rants about ‘beating Donald Trump’ is simply not an effective strategy– or vision– for changing administrations or projects any plan for the future of the United States any more than ‘beating Ronald Reagan’ was an effective pitch in 1984.
Just ‘beating someone’ on election night can leave you with a helluva morning headache in the clear light of day.
“Marvin- what do we do now?” – Bill McKay [Robert Redford] ‘The Candidate’ 1972
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/7/2020 @ 2:46 pmwe require mandatory retirement for people in positions where life and property are at risk- such as pilots. An significant testing in other professions and trades as well.
Flight 232 crashed landed at Sioux City airport after the rear engine failed and destroyed all hydraulics. Captain Al Hayes “flew” the plane with no rudder, not flaps, no controls. Managed to make the airport line up on the runway and crash land the plane, saving almost 2/3 of the souls on board.
Iowan2 (1c4a14) — 3/7/2020 @ 2:49 pmA year later, Capt Hayes was force to retire because he was too old to fly.
Funny thing was, it took hundred of pilots, thousands of attempts on simulators to get the plane to the ground without the entire plane blowing up and all aboard dead.
From March 3 — More questions about the CDC:
DRJ (15874d) — 3/7/2020 @ 2:53 pmHe ran only once.
We are talking Obama, right?
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/7/2020 @ 2:57 pm@124. Yeah, remember that– [was around the 20th anniversary of the moon landing] but Haines didn’t pilot it alone; he’d be the first to tell you that, too– he had a lot of help from colleagues on the flight deck but it was a helluva piece of flying by all of them for sure:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232
From the piece: ‘Of the 296 people on board, 112 died. Most were killed by injuries sustained in the multiple impacts, but 35 people in the middle fuselage section directly above the fuel tanks died from smoke inhalation in the post-crash fire. Of those, 24 had no traumatic blunt-force injuries. The majority of the 184 survivors were seated behind first class and ahead of the wings. Many passengers were able to walk out through the ruptures to the structure.’- source, wikiplanecrash
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/7/2020 @ 3:17 pmIf we’re talking about Trump, 2016 wasn’t the first time he ran for president, he ran, and lost the Reform party nomination in 2000.
Just like Trump, Trump fans are uninformed by reality.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827) — 3/7/2020 @ 3:22 pmI like how you’re responding to me suggesting my point is not in line with reality, and then nothing you say is actually true.
Sorry buddy, anything you can dog on Biden for is probably also a problem for Trump. They are hilariously similar, and anyone freaking out about one but pretending the other is some great guy is not being reasonable.
The only real distinctions are one will appoint guys from one side versus the other, and one is owned by Putin in an effort to destroy our most previous national institution (democracy) and the other just takes shady payoffs on a less offensive (but still offensive) level.
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/7/2020 @ 3:32 pmprecious, not previous… though both could apply soon enough I guess.
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/7/2020 @ 3:32 pm@129. You just don’t get it: Biden, Bernie, Trump…
I can’t lose.
Glorious times!
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/7/2020 @ 3:33 pmGood thing it’s all a Democrat hoax!
CPAC attendee tested positive for coronavirus
Nothing focuses the mind like exposure to a virulent and potentially fatal disease, apparently.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/7/2020 @ 4:38 pm“People are really surprised I understand this stuff,” he said. “Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability.”
I guess he missed all the eye-rolling. As far as his IQ, my only comment is “Nice doggie”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 4:41 pmHe was displaying early symptoms of alz even then
I guess that makes his accomplishments (winning the Cold War, cutting taxes from 70% to 28%, ending runaway inflation, turning the world away from socialism and beginning the longest boom on record) all the more amazing then. Perhaps we should insist on Alzheimer’s in all our presidents.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 4:45 pm“All they do here is check off boxes”
No. This was said about a government worker? Inconceivable.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 4:47 pmone of the attendees at last week’s Conservative Political Action Conference in National Harbor, Maryland, has tested positive for coronavirus.
As I said, anyone near Trump should make a point of coughing.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/7/2020 @ 4:48 pmYour cherry-picking is noted, Munroe. This is the part you left out.
Paul Montagu (8497cf) — 3/7/2020 @ 6:42 pm@134. …his accomplishments (winning the Cold War,) This, of course, is another massive Reagan cult fantasy and an insult to the policies of every post-WW2 American president– including GHW Bush. The Berlin Wall and the CCCP ended on his watch. But hey, whatever happened to that ‘peace dividend’? Oh. Right. Reaganomics.
–cutting taxes from 70% to 28%, ending runaway inflation… Reaganomics was the false prosperity of life on Uncle Sam’s American Express credit card– a harsh reality that trickled down hard and fast on Monday, October 19, 1987. Perhaps you ‘don’t recall.’ Ask Ivan Boesky— or a failed S&L investor– nearly a third of the 3,234 savings and loan associations in the United States failed[ a crisis spawned by Reagan era deregulation beginning in 1986.
turning the world away from socialism and beginning the longest boom on record) all the more amazing then. More amazing Reagan cult fantasy you mean; not only is socialism increasingly popular w/t children and grandchildren screwed by Reaganomics, we still have the popular Medicare, Medicaid [which RR opposed] SS, the postal service… and progressed to Obamacare.
Then there’s the billions wasted on his SDI fantasy; literally swiped from Hollywood out of the plots of one of his “Brass” Bancroft roles in the 1940 flick, Murder In The Air. Or perhaps you’ve never seen it and it’s airborne death ray. Or simply ‘don’t recall.’
Then there’s Iran-Contra. Or perhaps you ‘don’t recall’ that, either. But hey, how’s that ‘Reagan Dime’ coming along for ‘ya? 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:13 pmDCSCA, I’m not interested in you losing, though I admit I think we’re all losing in this political system. My impression is that you’re irritated that Biden is beating Bernie via the will of democratic voters. I could be mistaken, but I thought you really weren’t a fan of Trump, but were fine with him beating Hillary (much like nevertrumpers would be fine with Biden beating Trump).
I think we agree these guys are all jokes. It will be a good time watching Trump fans complain about a sexually creepy Biden. It will be a good time watching Biden’s fans rip on Trump’s age or dishonesty. It will not be a good time standing at a ballot and selecting one of these guys.
Dustin (9c58b3) — 3/7/2020 @ 7:58 pm@139. Yes, you are mistaken. We’re “all” not ‘all losing’ at all. The neutering of the modern ideological conservative movement remains a strategic course to follow and results so far have been magnificent. Far from a loss, relegating those troglodytes to the bottom of the deck– something ‘Rockefeller Republicans’ and mainstream Democrats have wanted for decades– is a Trump triumph. It’s a dream come true. He’s no ‘conservative;’ Trump is like highway construction: temporary inconvenience; permanent improvement. Whether he’s a bridge to somewhere– or a road to no where remains to be seen. But the enemy of my enemy is my friend. My animosity toward Plagiarist JoeyBee is no secret but for reasons based on his record— which few people have really looked closely at, yet– and the grand fakery of his persona. He is a bad man IMO– and the very kind of ‘swamp creature’ politician who spawned the rise of Trump to begin with.
And in my profession, plagiarists are to be exposed, branded and despised for the lazy thieves they are. It is unforgivable. But specific to this 2020 cycle, he exhibits a level of gaffe prone failings which have only gotten worse over the years. People age differently– and he is not aging well at all. But in so far as policy projections go, repeatedly railing, ‘Folks, here’s the deal, this is the United States of America and we have to take our country back by beating Donald Trump!’ is not a plan for the nation’s future any more than it was for Mondale railing, ‘beat Ronald Reagan’ in 1984. It’s meaningless. He is simply too old to be leading of a young, vibrant country like the U.S. into the second quarter of the 21st century– and missed his chance by not having the balls to challenge HRC in 2016. If he does get the nod this go around- it’s the party hacks at work– just as w/t GOP back in the day; he’s another McCain– or Dole.
Whether you like it or not, Sanders has identified serious and valid problems w/t U.S. healthcare system and is not wholly wrong about the issues surrounding climate change and the future of the planet. Of course, there’s a ‘yuge’ difference between the message and the messenger delivering it. ‘Bernie Bros’ be damned, most of America isn’t living in the Twitter Universe and a woman will be elected president before a cranky old Jewish guy from Brooklyn gets the gig. [I’m still holding out high hopes for Haley some day, but Boeing’s corporate problems may end up grounding her.]
Which brings us to Trump. He’s a total fvck-up internationally of course, but no new wars and ‘allies’ have been made to cough up more to pay for their own defense as the post WW2/Cold War eras from the 20th century fade into the history. What U.S. taxpayer can argue w/that? We’re in an era when Americans don’t want to be governed, they wish to be entertained. And Trump does that– from chopper-talk pressers to twitter impeachment outrage, it’s only the ratings that count. Who cares what the rest of the world thinks of him– so he’s a bombastic twit who lies like a rug and cheats on wives and at golf. For most of the citizenry, he’s an entertaining embarrassment- just like Archie Bunker to be sure– but in their own immediate universe, the economy is doing fine, unemployment is down and the markets are up. Conservatives really have nothing to complain about [though they seem to do it all the time anyway]- the party they chose to nest in made the deal w/t Devil, they acquitted him i the Senate and they are getting their judges. And I firmly believe that judges appointed to lifetime positions- for the most part [there are exceptions] owe nothing to the ideologues who sponsored them- they want to pursue the profession they chose in life unfettered by such baggage– the law, just as pilots want to fly and doctors wish to heal. The list goes on and on. So from my POV, it’s a win across the board no matter who gets the top gig– as long s the modern ideological conservative movement is relegated to irrelevance for the next 50 years. Welcome to 1964–what goes around, comes around. Simply glorious.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/7/2020 @ 9:25 pm21. Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/7/2020 @ 4:01 am
Trump was correct in what he said and what he was told – the CDC was able to ship out as man tests as requested.
What he didn’t know, what they didn’t tell him or make clear to him, what they didn’t want to say, is that there was a bottleneck somewhere else – at the state level.
They only have a limited number of people who can conduct the test – the test requires some human intervention – and the states set standards for tests so they wouldn’t get so many. In fact, at a level way below their capacity.
Capacity is increasing fast as they are bringing in private companies, like Qwest, but there are still some bottlenecks, or could be, like for the chemicals they need to use.
But the bottleneck is not with the federal government any more.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 3:43 am68. Fred (2b8765) — 3/7/2020 @ 8:52 am
It didn;t happen just one time, and, unless some people are pulling a hoax, and there’s no reason to think so, nor to think that the idea is bad, this was given to very sick people who hadn’t been improving.
Here is a report. A month ago already!
by Catherine Offord
Feb 3, 2020
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/flu-and-anti-hiv-drugs-show-efficacy-against-coronavirus-67052
If this would have been tried earlier in the illness it would have worked much better.
Something is very very wrong with the world in that new drug treatments are slowed down.
Another problem is the drugs are expensive and insurance rarely pays for off label uses, until they’re established anyway, and everyone involved ritualistically says it needs to be tested (nonsense, although you could fine tune it, but best is to just try out the same thing with occasional variations and you’ll get an idea very quickly.)
They need use it as a prophylactic (it works that way for AIDS it should work with coronavirus) and encourage phamaceutical companies to increase production and make a deal with them to get a large quabtit at a low price.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 4:11 amUp thread a number of people question the idea that the Presidents statements can have any impact on this one way or another. Here’s an example of how statements can have an impact.
If we had a better president we’d be able to take their public statements on this at face value and use that information to make informed decisions based on our own circumstances. But we don’t. We have a liar who has repeatedly shown that he will present false and misleading information for personal gain. He’s also shown that he will pressure those that work in the federal government do to the same, even for relatively minor matters.
Time123 (c9382b) — 3/8/2020 @ 5:58 amYeeeup, Time.
I think Mulvany my have slit his own wrists at CPAC by inadvertently telling the truth.
The thug in the Oval Office won’t tolerate that.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/8/2020 @ 6:40 am145. Time123 (c9382b) — 3/8/2020 @ 5:58 am
Yes, but we don;t usually get apresident who;s that good.
The president has not only not got to be a liar, but he’s got to have good judgement as to what and whom he should believe. That’s rare.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 6:49 amI mean we don;t really believe the CDC either, and none of them are quite like Trump. You have to evaluate everything
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 6:51 amhttps://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/1236275741597339648
Interesting new stats on mortality.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/8/2020 @ 7:48 amHere’s how you kill people with BS…
Several experts said the United States should have spent more time making sure hospitals and state and local health departments had the money, training, personal protective equipment and resources they needed to respond to outbreaks. But the White House’s messaging in January and well into late February that the virus was contained and under control probably led health-care facilities to be insufficiently prepared, these experts added.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/8/2020 @ 7:55 amWe will never have a spare million hospital beds, let alone ICU beds. Nor will we have extra doctors, nurses or other professionals and volunteers can only do so much. In a pandemic, there will be triage and it might get ugly. Sure, preparation might help some but so would fairy godmothers. Humans procrastinate.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/8/2020 @ 8:46 am“We have a liar who has repeatedly shown that he will present false and misleading information for personal gain. He’s also shown that he will pressure those that work in the federal government do to the same, even for relatively minor matters.”
Time123 (c9382b) — 3/8/2020 @ 5:58 am
We also have a media and anonymous sources who have repeatedly shown they will do anything to bring this president down for petty political reasons, and commenters who will parrot them.
If there is a higher risk of getting the virus on airplanes, then no one should fly. Why does it matter whether you are elderly or not? If you are young and better able to handle the virus, you are still a carrier and transmitter to the elderly and others if you get infected on the plane. Maybe the verbiage was removed because it made no sense.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/8/2020 @ 8:47 am149. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/8/2020 @ 8:46 am
But what we do have, at least for now, is antivirals,
which should considerably reduce the severity of an infection and its transmissibility, if there are enough doctors who have the wit to use them. Early, and not just as a last resort. (and this will need government help to reduce the price and increase the production)
Some have side effects and this needs a bit of judgment.
There is also dialysis, which was proven to work with ebola in Germany. Dialysis can easily (?) be set to screen out many things, including virus particles.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 9:18 am150. Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/8/2020 @ 8:47 am
An airplane brings people together from many different places, so could create new hot spots.
By the way the back page of Fortune showed airplane connections to Wuhan China. None of the spread seems to have come that way, probably because Chinese authorities were secretly screening passengers. You see Paris but you don’t see Italy. You don’t see South Korea (where it came from a church/cult that made a pilgrimage to Wuhan.) You don’t see Japan where it maybe came by ship. You don’t see Iran.
The air pressure in jets is set to that at 8,000 feet. I don’t know how that affects thing, nor the degree to which air is recirculated. Air plan a travel is also a risk factor for blood clots and heart attacks on or within a few days of being aboard one.
cf: Tim Russert of Meet the press; Carrie Fisher (Princess Leia in Star Wars); and Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. Also Richard Nixon in 1974, after he resigned. They said he had phlebitis and doctors warned him not to travel on an airplane.
Well, it stands to reason that if you are less sick, you are less likely transmit it to someone else.
A lot of these recommendations play the odds, but they are not being consistent.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 9:38 amComrade Munroe pretend not know air travel drop like temperature in Siberia, Comrade Sammy. But we not just come off borscht boat.
nk (9651fb) — 3/8/2020 @ 9:52 amRagspierre (d9bec9) — 3/8/2020 @ 7:55 am
This guy gets it:
If you’re looking for a quick, nimble, and effective response; if you’re looking for a response that comes without bureaucracy and red tape; if you’re looking for a response that immediately directs resources where they’re needed in an efficient fashion — then you want the feds, baby! Nobody cuts through the red tape and bureaucracy like the feds!
https://patterico.com/2005/09/09/an-observation-on-the-katrina-rescue-efforts/
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:04 amTriple O (Office of Orange Operations) train you well in use of squirrels, Comrade Munroe.
nk (9651fb) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:16 amBased on how it trained you in humor, nk, Triple O comes highly recommended.
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:21 amTo quote Lt. General Honore, “You are stuck on stupid.”
“This guy” was talking about a disaster that was localized to parts of two states, and one that by its nature (temporarily disrupting transportation routes) put a premium on local preparation.
It’s ludicrous to suggest that all fifty states should independently assess the threat from the virus, develop tests, work out medical best practices, etc.
Leaders are supposed to lead. In this case, as in so many others over the last three years, the imbecile in charge has been part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:34 amLast Thursday, (march 5) a message from the New York City Department of Health was posted by the elevators of apartment building. This is was the official advice last week in New York.
To condense and expand it a bit, this is what they advise:
1. You can prevent the spread of any virus – note the careful word choice here of any – by staying home if you feel sick, covering your mouth and face with your sleeve, but not your hands) when you cough or sneeze, and washing your hands often.
2. IF you feel flu-like symptoms (described as fever, cough and shortness of breath) AND have recently traveled to an area affected by coronovirus OR have been in close contact with someone who has THEN go to your doctor.
2.5 IF you have these flu-like symptoms but NO travel history THEN call your doctor, but DO NOT go to him (unless requested I suppose)
2.9 IF you don’t have a doctor, THEN call 311 and they’ll put you in touch with a medical professional.
Unmentioned but obviously intended: Whatever you do, DON’T GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM!!
On your own, at any rate. If it’s an infection.
But for some reason they are afraid to say that.
Also unmentioned: They’ll maybe take you to the hospital through a separate entrance.
3. IF you are feeling well THEN there is no need to wear a face mask. If you see someone else with a face mask, DO NOT WORRY. “People wear masks for many reasons. Be respectful.”
It’s not numbered the way I did, but they’ve got 3 icons: a pair of hands with bubbles in the air (to indicate washing?); NYC 311; and an upper body figure.
What to say? It’s like they don;t know how to put things, and this message was worked out by committee. I want to say that the symptom of shortness f breath comes much after cough and fever – why are they lumped together. And notice how they want to get all coronovirus cases diagnosed, but not anything else.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:39 am157. Dave (1bb933) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:34 am
What prevented people from getting help in 2005 was FEMA blockading rhe roads.
Planners gotta plan.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:42 amIs shame to see such abject self-abasement wasted on unworthy cause, no?
Dave (1bb933) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:46 amNo, the Reckitt Benckiser company, which manufactures Lysol, did not have access to a time machine, nor did they engineer both the scare and the name:
https://wyrk.com/does-lysol-really-kill-the-coronavirus-kind-of
It’s just that there are 4 other coronoviruses known before.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:50 amDave (1bb933) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:34 am
Yes, Dave…. but, but, but, this is different!! LOL
Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:53 amOne quarter of the population of Italy (16 million people) have been put into a quarantine zone overnight.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:57 amYes, it is different. We had an honest and conscientious (as well as conscious) President, not a con-man trained by Roy Cohn.
nk (9651fb) — 3/8/2020 @ 10:58 amPresident Macron of France says people shouldn’t visit old people in nursing homes.
That isn’t actually good.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 11:19 amIIRC, Walmart and other outfits with killer logistics systems had trucks just miles down the road, loaded with essentials.
FEMA still hadn’t gotten un-tracked. The private relief was not allowed into NOLA…by the Feds.
Of course this is an entirely incomparable situation. We know very little in many respects. With a Katrina, you kind of know a bunch immediately
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/8/2020 @ 11:22 amNobody is putting obstacles in the way of manufacturing more corona virus test kits, or protective equipment. They are, in fact, trying to clear the path. Pence is doing a more or less good job, at least insofar as he’s trying to find out what state Governors want and helping them.
Where you do have obstacles is in the discussion of and the use of new treatments. which has been a serious problem since 1962, and maybe the late 1940s, and mostly just gets worse with time.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 11:33 amNew York City Mayor De Blasio speaking. He took a long time to get to the point, but he said they can distinguish between the people who are vulnerable to this disease and those who are not – he said there are exceptions – the you could put an asterisk there – but he finally got to the point and said it is:
People over 50 with one of five pre-existing conditions: heart disease, lung disease, cancer, immune system deficiency and diabetes.
This makes sense. And very old people tend to have less of an immune system, so it isn’t even necessary to state that. Cancer might be because of the treatment.
People with diabetes have trouble manufacturing proteins, and infections are fought with antibodies which are proteins. Diabetics have problems probably because low blood sugar is usually required for that and it doesn’t get low enough for long enough. That’s why they heal slower. And have all the other problems, most of them related to a diminished ability to build capillaries for the blood, so heart disease, kidney problems, eye problems, and peripheral vascular disease. Maybe low temperature or low oxygen levels can compensate to some degree. I’d add people who can never sleep well.
Heart disease possibly indicates some problem building proteins) Lower lung function of course leaves smaller margin and maybe oxygen is needed to help fight infection. I don’t know.
Also, said De Blasio, what they would call a “factor” is smoking or vaping. (probably because they are anti-vitamins and some vitamins are needed for building proteins) This would be a good time to stop smoking he said and people could call 311 for help.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 12:01 pmNone of that is mentioned in the post-mortem by the DHS Inspector General, which is critical of FEMA in many other regards.
Even if true, allowing commercial deliveries into a disaster area in the immediate aftermath, when the condition of roads, bridges, power lines, flooding, etc is unknown, without coordination with relief authorities would seem pretty foolish to me.
While the news media brought their own communications and transmissions systems into the hardest-hit areas, for the responders, near-total destruction of communications infrastructure over a huge area was a major handicap, and the emergency communications facilities FEMA set up were the only ones available.
In fact, FEMA delivered record quantities of relief supplies, and nobody died of starvation or lack of medical supplies.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/8/2020 @ 12:17 pmThe problem with FEMA during Katrina was that it was designed for America, not Bangladesh On The Bayou, a city corrupt from top to bottom. You had NOLA cops looting stores, for crying out loud.
nk (9651fb) — 3/8/2020 @ 12:24 pmTesting, one, two, free; testing, one, two, free — get with it, Mikey.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/8/2020 @ 12:49 pmEach test kit can do 799 to 800 tests and there are now 1 1/2 million shipped out – could be 4 mllion by he end of the week, That;s enough to test almost half the human beings on earth. Kits are not the bottleneck.
Only doctors or hospitals will be able to order the tests although they will take the samples, but the Bill Gates (the Gates Foundation) plans to make them available for home testing, thrugh public health agencies, at least in the Seattle area.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/gates-foundation-to-help-with-coronavirus-testing-in-seattle/281-bb150c47-9205-487f-80bb-3228f806efa2
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 1:15 pmIt was true, it was stupid, it relied om central planning. And yes they had some kind of an excuse like that.
The same thing with the California wildfires where they stopped putting out fires and told everyone to evacuate. (but insurance companies who had insured vineyards, put out fires. Ordinary people were really discouraged from doing this)
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 1:19 pm172 * 700 to 800 tests per test kit, not 799 to 800. The bottleneck is not there.
Because maybe they don’t want to test because then maybe they’ll have to quarantine more people, or change their recommendations.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/8/2020 @ 1:21 pmWithin 48 hours, employees had gotten more than half the 126 damaged stores up and running, and they began providing help wherever they saw needs — for instance, distributing diapers, water, baby formula, and ice. While FEMA couldn’t figure out how to move supplies, WalMart managers created paper credit systems for first responders, providing them with food and supplies during Walmart’s Hurricane Katrina response.
Individuals felt empowered to make their own decisions. The assistant manager of a severely flooded store drove a bulldozer through it, loaded up everything useable, and gave it away in the parking lot. When she learned that a local hospital was running out of drugs, she broke into the store’s pharmacy to get what the hospital needed.
–snip–
Within two days, the company got tractor-trailers full of supplies past roadblocks and into the city. They provided water and food to refugees a day before the government appeared on the scene. In total, WalMart sent 2,498 trailer loads of supplies and donated $3.5 million in goods to shelters and command centers. This is the power of Walmart’s Hurricane Katrina response.
The lesson of Walmart’s Hurricane Katrina response is that under extreme and complex conditions, where a single person has insufficient knowledge to make the right calls, if people are empowered to act, work together, and adapt, they can achieve extraordinary success where centralized control would fail.
I little wonder that DHS gave this story short shrift.
Reaganomics, indeed.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/8/2020 @ 1:25 pmUnder normal circumstances, a six- to 10-person staff at the center responds to everyday emergencies, such as a fire in a store or a shooting outside one. When disasters such as hurricanes threaten, the staff is joined by senior representatives from each of the company’s functional areas, says Jason Jackson, Wal-Mart’s director of business continuity. The center is equipped with hurricane-tracking software, and on Aug. 24, days before Katrina made landfall, company managers were already planning their response.
–snip–
As a result, Wal-Mart trucks were distributing aid to Katrina’s victims days before federal relief arrived. During a less destructive hurricane, Wal-Mart ships between 200 and 400 containers of goods for sale or relief. In the first two and a half weeks following Katrina, Wal-Mart shipped 2,500 containers to the region and delivered another 517 containers post-Rita. Wal-Mart also set up satellite links for its stores that lost phone or Internet service so that they could stay connected to headquarters; Wal-Mart stores in areas that were without power for weeks were able to keep generators in stock.
https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.73Mg4dAFs-uBS6JgfevgkgHaET?w=299&h=172&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.5&pid=1.7
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/8/2020 @ 1:51 pmPolitico has a piece on the culture Trump has created, and it has led to problems.
Paul Montagu (d6528e) — 3/8/2020 @ 6:08 pmSo you’re complaining because FEMA held up commercial deliveries to a disaster area with flooded roads, damaged bridges, downed power lines and no communications for … two whole days?
Controlling access until it’s possible to determine where it is and isn’t safe to go is smart, and avoids creating additional victims in need of rescue.
Dave (1bb933) — 3/8/2020 @ 6:41 pmSo you’re complaining because FEMA held up commercial deliveries to a disaster area with flooded roads, damaged bridges, downed power lines and no communications for … two whole days?
No, Dave. I was reporting/reminding/observing a thing that happened. And “two whole days” can be critical to kids in sweltering heat without water or food.
And they weren’t “commercial deliveries”, but were emergency relief supplies. One thing I know about drivers for Walmart is that they are pros. I could have driven into NOLA, and so could they.
Remember the kid who led a bunch of buses to Houston?
Sometimes you need to use your own noodle, and let the “officials” find another problem to NOT solve.
Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/8/2020 @ 7:04 pmGates Foundation to offer home testing kits in Seattle:
DRJ (15874d) — 3/8/2020 @ 9:18 pmThe title of this editorial (unfortunately semi-paywalled) pretty much says it all:
You Can’t Gaslight a Virus
Dave (1bb933) — 3/9/2020 @ 2:59 am177. Paul Montagu (d6528e) — 3/8/2020 @ 6:08 pm
This quite possibly was not as stupid as portrayed. Trump was very very possibly trying to keep the total number of infected people in the United States down, and thought that if they left the ship, some would infect others. It probably wasn’t a matter of not counting them so long as they stayed aboard ship, because there is statistic, which the CDC pays a great deal of attention to, that counts only infections contracted within the United States and excludes infections contracted abroad.
Because they don;t trust his judgment and never know what he will do. This may always be true for some people about any president, but here it’s the consensus. Nobody has confidence in him. They’d rather not have him making decisions.
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/9/2020 @ 10:02 amDave (1bb933) — 3/8/2020 @ 6:41 pm
And what gives FEMA a special ability to determine where it is safe and where it is not safe to go, and were there many traps?
Sammy Finkelman (9570ad) — 3/9/2020 @ 10:04 am