Patterico's Pontifications

1/23/2019

Revisiting the Covington Catholic Situation [Updated]

Filed under: General — JVW @ 1:33 pm



[guest post by JVW]

Since the original post continues to be hotly debated, I thought I would add some more thoughts as the situation has evolved.

1. Commenter Calfed raised a very good point yesterday. Perhaps the Covington Catholic boys did not bring MAGA gear with them to the march; perhaps they just purchased the gear from street vendors at some point during the day. This makes sense, as the hats and other items did seem to be new, and it would explain why they would be wearing all of that stuff as they waited for the bus. In retrospect, I jumped the gun by blaming the fellas and, especially, their chaperones for permitting it, and I regret that I failed to consider that possibility. My point that MAGA-wear is inappropriate for a march that is designed to be non-partisan, however, stands. See my explanation here for why I believe that.

2. The more this plays out, the more I see Nathan Phillips as a bad actor in this mess. I was at one point willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he may really have been trying to defuse the situation, even if he did so in a ridiculously poor manner, but now it seems almost entirely clear that he is a professional agitator who sought confrontation and was savvy enough to immediately run to the media so that his mendacious side of the story dominated the early narrative.

3. A note on military service. Brotherico (always a pleasure to have him comment) brought some excellent perspective on whether Mr. Phillips can be considered a Vietnam Veteran in comments he made here and here. The upshot is that though Mr. Phillips never saw combat action in Vietnam — or even served “in-country” (i.e. on Vietnamese soil) — because he was in the military during the 1964-75 period of action in Vietnam, he is officially classified by the government as a Vietnam veteran. This is, of course, a separate matter from the instances when Mr. Phillips has led people to believe he was a combat veteran. For another perspective, retired Navy SEAL Don Shipley, who produces YouTube videos exposing stolen valor frauds, especially those who claim to be ex-Special Forces, acknowledges that Mr. Phillips does not seem to have claimed to be a combat veteran, though he seriously doubts that Mr. Phillips ever served as a Recon Ranger.

4. Since this story first broke, the Twitter wars have only escalated. It seems now that we are, typically, hardening into two opposing camps: one which believes that the CC boys are the victims of a coordinated smear job initiated by the obnoxious Black Hebrew group, picked up by Nathan Phillips and his Native American activist buddies, and finally endorsed by a media horde eager to exact a pound of white male Catholic MAGA flesh; and an opposition (maybe even a “Resistance” if you will) which insists that a group of teenage boys attacked both the Black Hebrew group and the Indian chanters because they were flexing their privileged white male conservative Catholic oppressor muscles. This is how we get Donald Trump; this is how we get Elizabeth Warren.

The worst people of all are still the Twitter jockeys who are calling for — or at the very least openly musing about — violence being done against these kids, especially Nicholas Sandmann. Hollywood and other entertainment types seem to be the most likely blue-checks to indulge in this vile practice, suggesting why today’s cultural offerings tend to be so putrid. Because the rationale for wishing violence on a teenager is nearly always expressed as offense at the “smug” look on young Mr. Sandmann’s face, I thought it appropriate to offer this meme floating around the Internet. And, yes, this is a real quote from the book.

Facecrime

UPDATE: Megan McArdle has one of her typically excellent takes on the whole situation. Sorry to have to point you to Twitter to read it, but I think that’s the only place she has published it.

– JVW

423 Responses to “Revisiting the Covington Catholic Situation [Updated]”

  1. OK, perhaps we can all gravitate over here now.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  2. wearing a MAGA hat isn’t a crime… and it isn’t even bad behavior……
    except in CA when it is punishable by the state…

    jason stewart (f8653f)

  3. There is an “interesting” Washington Post piece that bemoans how the adult MSM tried soooo hard in the face of “viral” social media stuff to be temperate, etc., etc. Then the author complains how POTUS waited 48 whole hours to say anything and then entered the situation stirring things up.

    I cannot re-access it behind the “wall” but I think this is the piece:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/01/22/viral-story-spread-mainstream-media-rushed-keep-up-trump-internet-pounced/

    jim2 (a5dc71)

  4. wearing a MAGA hat isn’t a crime… and it isn’t even bad behavior……
    except in CA when it is punishable by the state…

    jason stewart (f8653f) — 1/23/2019 @ 1:41 pm

    It’s free speech, but people will listen to what you’re saying. When you wear your MAGA hat, what you are attempting to say? What do you think people are hearing? Some hear a loud endorsement of every sleazy thing Trump has done with a prostitute, or for Russia, or the racist things he has said. Maybe you don’t mean that, so what do you mean with the hat?

    The more this plays out, the more I see Nathan Phillips as a bad actor in this mess.

    He is. For some reason almost everyone affiliated with the GOP needs to reference his race when mocking him. The same people do not understand why the same racist crap on video was racist. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  5. Commenter Calfed raised a very good point yesterday. Perhaps the Covington Catholic boys did not bring MAGA gear with them to the march; perhaps they just purchased the gear from street vendors at some point during the day.

    One of the chaperones was on Fox and said the kids brought all that gear with them. It’s apparently a trend with some teens.

    16-year-olds, especially boys (in a large group), are clueless idiots, I still think there’s lots of blame to go around, but mostly for all the adults around. The black Israelites, whatever that means, are mainly to blame, Phillips was at least a bit of an ass, the chaperones needed to actually do that because everyone has met teenage boys. Of course, the internet being the internet, overreacted on the kids, I’m guilty of it, still think the kid was an ass though. But with that in mind, Philips is being called out as not a Vet, stolen valor, with less info than that initially condemned the kid, because he’s obviously the opposite of the kid, so to defend the kid, you must demonize Philips.

    This just looks like a situation of adults failing to adult, from all sides.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  6. One of the chaperones was on Fox and said the kids brought all that gear with them. It’s apparently a trend with some teens.

    16-year-olds, especially boys (in a large group), are clueless idiots, I still think there’s lots of blame to go around, but mostly for all the adults around. The black Israelites, whatever that means, are mainly to blame, Phillips was at least a bit of an ass, the chaperones needed to actually do that because everyone has met teenage boys. Of course, the internet being the internet, overreacted on the kids, I’m guilty of it, still think the kid was an ass though. But with that in mind, Philips is being called out as not a Vet, stolen valor, with less info than that initially condemned the kid, because he’s obviously the opposite of the kid, so to defend the kid, you must demonize Philips.

    This just looks like a situation of adults failing to adult, from all sides.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 1/23/2019 @ 2:04 pm

    Much better said than me, but I find myself agreeing with you and JVW’s post practically 100%.

    At the end of the day, there are some very loud folks insisting this is a big damn issue, while the government is shut down, while the president is talking about leaving NATO, while some really interesting stuff is going on on Venezuela.

    I glanced at Ace’s blog and learn that this it is virtue signalling to criticize these kids, and there’s something called the “cuckshed.” There’s a lot of anger at anyone who suspects racism in the GOP. I think that’s what is fuelling this story right now. The democrats realized that at best, their side was the instigator, so they don’t really care anymore.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  7. The Orwell quote isn’t just floating around the Internet, I referenced it day one.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  8. The Orwell quote isn’t just floating around the Internet, I referenced it day one.

    Sorry harkin, I missed that. And it’s the meme with the picture of young Mr. Sandmann that I wrote is floating around the Internet.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  9. It’s very common for certain groups of teenagers to find joy in doing whatever it is that will piss their elders off. So there’s an aspect of MAGAism in the teen crowd of doing it just because it’s going to piss people off, specifically *because* it will piss people off.

    My view is that generally speaking, unless such behavior ventures into actual violence, the best thing for adults to do is to ignore it.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  10. I glanced at Ace’s blog and learn that this it is virtue signalling to criticize these kids, and there’s something called the “cuckshed.” There’s a lot of anger at anyone who suspects racism in the GOP. I think that’s what is fuelling this story right now.

    Poor Ace. How deluded do you have to be to believe that even the mildest criticism of the kids constitutes accusing them of racism? What weird times we live in.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  11. Anyway, guys, I tried to talk about this issue and I’m really tired of it. Haiku made a point in the last thread that talking about this stuff is harming the future of these kids, and even though I think they were doing stuff that’s wrong, that doesn’t mean I think it needs to be an issue. There are real issues that are more interesting. I’m officially over this one.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  12. It’s very common for certain groups of teenagers to find joy in doing whatever it is that will piss their elders off. So there’s an aspect of MAGAism in the teen crowd of doing it just because it’s going to piss people off, specifically *because* it will piss people off.

    I think you’re spot on there, aphrael. In a similar vein, I keep reading that all of the worrywarts are panicking that teen vaping is on the rise, even though vaping is supposed to be far more healthy than traditional smoking (not that vaping is a healthy habit, by the way). Obviously it’s those dastardly tobacco companies again, it can’t be that teenagers adopt habits that they know society frowns upon, can it? (I also chuckle that a parent who has no problem with their 13-year-old needing a double sugary caffeinated drink from Starbucks every morning is now rushing to the battlements because that same kids seems to like an occasional nicotine fix too.)

    JVW (54fd0b)

  13. “My point that MAGA-wear is inappropriate for a march that is designed to be non-partisan, however, stands.”

    I read your explanation and I still disagree, whether it’s a MAGA hat, a Che’ T-shirt or whatever. If a dingbat marching in an ‘non-partisan’ parade celebrating abortion rights is wearing an ‘I’m With Her’ hat, that’s his/her business and for anyone to call it inappropriate can take a flip. Wearing something supporting Hillary might offend those who disagree with the wholesale slaughter of the unborn, but to be offended enough that to call it inappropriate to the point of being part of the cause of this insanity is, well, insane.

    Have you noticed that the hat-haters always try to prescribe what that hat represents? Well maybe the hat means something much different to the people wearing them. I agree with those who say the Left is trying to equate these hats with klan hoods. It’s as if they had no clue what the klan actually did or what political party created it. Like they were just trying to create the dishonest meme that the person wearing it is a racist.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  14. 9 – aphrael
    You described my old catholic school days.
    peace be with you

    mg (8cbc69)

  15. I don’t understand why people can’t hold more than one thought in their head at the same time: because every group, whether Trumpers, anti-Trumpers, Republicans, Democrats, Native American elders, white teenagers, black activist groups, and every damn group in between have some crap people involved in them. This shouldn’t be surprising to anyone. There is no purity group, no group that is made up of only the virtuous and righteous because human nature heavily weighs against any such proposition. And because there is no given positive homogeneity of character among people, everyone looking in from the outside at what happened is fluffing their political point of view via an elderly Indian man or a white teenager. Pick your side, because you have to pick a side as there is no longer any reasonable, deliberate and thoughtful pathway upon which to walk. Those days are over. Argue accordingly, just as long as your side of the aisle’s narrative is furthered. And, hey, if an institution like the Catholic Church takes another big hit as a result, all the better. After all, given the KoC fiasco, the entity of the Church is certainly ripe for the picking. Or maybe that was the goal in the first place. I don’t know. Unfortunately, the sympathetic urge to romanticize marginalized groups is as strong as the urge to marginalize groups that marginalized in the first place. This situation, unfortunately, gives fodder to both camps to keep the outrage mill working overtime. In the meantime, sincere people, people who care not a whit about scoring points in this bastardization of politics, are wondering if everyone has lost their f***ing minds.

    Dana (023079)

  16. Like they were just trying to create the dishonest meme that the person wearing it is a racist.

    Why is that dishonest? Trump has said and done things that are reasonably interpreted as racist. A MAGA hat is an endorsement of what Trump has said and done. The GOP has a real problem acknowledging its problem with race. There are reasons why some minorities reject the GOP in enormous numbers. It’s not because they are stupid and have been fooled. It’s not because they are unaware that the democrats were the party of slavery and the KKK 100 to 150 years ago.

    On the converse, there’s a reason the KKK endorsed Donald Trump. There’s a reason Trump waffled so much about David Duke.

    Some might say it is dishonest to associate the confederate battle flag with racism. Well it’s impossible to prove what’s inside someone’s brain, behind their smirk or glare, or under that hat, but it’s not that hard to figure out what’s behind all the defensiveness when the subject of racism comes up.

    Maybe the MAGA hat has some hidden meaning that is not endorsement of Trump, but if so, I asked about this in previous threads and did not get a response.

    Many people who aren’t conservative, presume that anything a racist would say is racist. It’s a logical error, but it’s also a reasonable opinion when you consider how communication works in this generation (it is about what is received more than what is intended). With that in mind, what are these MAGA hats really about? Are they intended to be obnoxious and in your face to liberals? If so, what about them is supposed to be so inflammatory?

    At any rate, endorse Trump, and you’re endorsing Trump.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  17. #15 I don’t understand why people can’t hold more than one thought in their head at the same time: because every group, whether Trumpers, anti-Trumpers, Republicans, Democrats, Native American elders, white teenagers, black activist groups, and every damn group in between have some crap people involved in them. This shouldn’t be surprising to anyone. There is no purity group, no group that is made up of only the virtuous and righteous because human nature heavily weighs against any such proposition. And because there is no given positive homogeneity of character among people, everyone looking in from the outside at what happened is fluffing their political point of view via an elderly Indian man or a white teenager. Pick your side, because you have to pick a side as there is no longer any reasonable, deliberate and thoughtful pathway upon which to walk. Those days are over. Argue accordingly, just as long as your side of the aisle’s narrative is furthered. And, hey, if an institution like the Catholic Church takes another big hit as a result, all the better. After all, given the KoC fiasco, the entity of the Church is certainly ripe for the picking. Or maybe that was the goal in the first place. I don’t know. Unfortunately, the sympathetic urge to romanticize marginalized groups is as strong as the urge to marginalize groups that marginalized in the first place. This situation, unfortunately, gives fodder to both camps to keep the outrage mill working overtime. In the meantime, sincere people, people who care not a whit about scoring points in this bastardization of politics, are wondering if everyone has lost their f***ing minds.

    Dana (023079) — 1/23/2019 @ 2:41 pm

    Dana, I’m right there with you.

    I’m just tired of the rage mob routine and especially disappointed how it got out of hand with any regards for accuracy. Maybe it’s *me* that’s overreacting, but I have 2 teenage boys and for the first time in my life… I feel sorry for them having to deal with this sort of crap.

    whembly (b9d411)

  18. I think it’s fair to say that wearing a MAGA hat is an explicit endorsement of Trump.

    I don’t think that racism is the only reason people have for endorsing Trump.

    I think they’re fools who’ve been taken in by a con man (although there are some who recognize that he’s a con man but still think that the ability they think he has to break up the political aristocracy makes it worth going along with the con), but racism isn’t the only reason people support Trump.

    That it’s the most salient thing about Trump for a lot of us on the left doesn’t mean it is for his supporters.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  19. good grief, you are forcing the narrative with a two by four, phillips is a fraud, backed by the christics institute anti American nuts, they are trying to make the march for life, into thought crime, ostensibly that’s an issue that you care about,

    narciso (d1f714)

  20. I think it’s fair to say that wearing a MAGA hat is an explicit endorsement of Trump.

    I don’t think that racism is the only reason people have for endorsing Trump.

    I think they’re fools who’ve been taken in by a con man (although there are some who recognize that he’s a con man but still think that the ability they think he has to break up the political aristocracy makes it worth going along with the con), but racism isn’t the only reason people support Trump.

    That it’s the most salient thing about Trump for a lot of us on the left doesn’t mean it is for his supporters.

    aphrael (e0cdc9) — 1/23/2019 @ 2:49 pm

    Well said. I imagine almost no one would say the reason they support Trump is his racism.

    But also, a lot of them, perhaps a majority, are ambivalent to it.

    Again, there are reasons the KKK endorses the same guy that minorities overwhelmingly reject. I don’t think these reasons are easily dismissed.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  21. Wear a MAGA hat or don’t… wear a baseball, football or basketball team hat or don’t. Wear a cowboy hat or don’t.

    But please, whatever you decide, do NOT wear one of those pu$$y hats… ever.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  22. good grief, you are forcing the narrative with a two by four, phillips is a fraud, backed by the christics institute anti American nuts, they are trying to make the march for life, into thought crime, ostensibly that’s an issue that you care about,

    narciso (d1f714) — 1/23/2019 @ 2:53 pm

    I’m not interested in Phillips or the March for Life supporters. Totally past it. I think you’re worried about it at the expense of these poor kids whose futures are being ruined with every mention of what they did or didn’t do. They aren’t interesting anyway.

    Let’s talk about what you think a MAGA hat means.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  23. @ aphrael,

    I think it’s fair to say that wearing a MAGA hat is an explicit endorsement of Trump.

    I don’t think that racism is the only reason people have for endorsing Trump.

    I think they’re fools who’ve been taken in by a con man (although there are some who recognize that he’s a con man but still think that the ability they think he has to break up the political aristocracy makes it worth going along with the con), but racism isn’t the only reason people support Trump.

    That it’s the most salient thing about Trump for a lot of us on the left doesn’t mean it is for his supporters

    Please clarify so I am not misreading you. You have stated that you see Trump as a racist. You have declared that people who wear MAGA hats endorse Trump, and that people who actually voted for Trump may have done so for reasons other than racism. Can people who wear a MAGA hat also wear it apart from the racism as well? Who gets to decide the line of delineation?

    Dana (023079)

  24. 16-year-olds, especially boys (in a large group), are clueless idiots,

    What are you talking about? I was a 16-year-old boy once, and back then I knew everything.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  25. We live in a very weird world now, I think because of the immediacy and “mob mentality” of social media. I think what drives the latter is the wish to be seen as virtuous. Thomas Sowell’s “Vision of the Anointed” comes to mind.

    Then we have labeling. Labeling is very, very important nowadays. We need to put people into small boxes with extreme labels, like HERO and DEVIL. Add to our weird sensitivity toward the ethnic (fear of criticism, drive to criticize), and we have the current witch’s brew of hatred.

    Can you imagine if the Native American fellow, rather than chanting and drumming, had hugged the student and said “We are all brothers”? Of course he was looking for a media moment. And teenagers? C’mon, irritating grown ups is how they begin to establish their independence.

    Laugh at the hugging idea if you like. But consider this:

    https://youtu.be/ORp3q1Oaezw

    If that will take too long, read this:

    https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes

    Strange how that story doesn’t interest our current media overlords. It doesn’t fit the narrative. And narrative is MUCH more important than facts these days.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  26. Mr. Ace is a very keen observer of these times and I love his blog because it is so good

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  27. I don’t know if folks believe in this article on Red State, but it suggests some really sad things about Mr. Phillips.

    I think it is juvenile, and highly counterproductive (unless you want to be no different from the Left) to call the guy names. But this is rather depressing.

    https://www.redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2019/01/22/nathan-phillips-dd-214-released-shows-hes-not-quite-claims/

    Given his history of protests, I sort of expected it. But it’s still sad. Claims versus reality.

    The kids, on the other hand, have a whole future in front of them. I hope they do good things with it…and possibly some settlement money from the foolish journalists who couldn’t help themselves.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  28. well he wasn’t because an utter fraud, the one fronted by the people who thirty years later would give snowfall, reaboi has succinctly described the process by which conservatism retreated from the values field, whereas progressives seized beachhead with every institution, schools church, media and even the summits of corporate America, so certain subjects and viewpoints are deemed crimethink,

    narciso (d1f714)

  29. And Ace? My oh my he likes to sound all tough, doesn’t he? It must mean he is correct, with all the dumb nicknames and insults. Seriously, it’s sad to watch him morph into a cheeto-munching troll. AllahPundit is a “cuck”? Please.

    It’s too bad.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  30. Notice how the Media says there were reports (NO one has provided any evidence) of the young men chanting “build the wall”, but there’s been scarce (if any) mention made of the vile words that flowed from the Black Hebrews, certainly no condemnation. What if the boys had said “build the wall”, are we to understand these liberal fascist corksoakers get to dictate what’s acceptable speech?

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  31. Please clarify so I am not misreading you. You have stated that you see Trump as a racist. You have declared that people who wear MAGA hats endorse Trump, and that people who actually voted for Trump may have done so for reasons other than racism. Can people who wear a MAGA hat also wear it apart from the racism as well? Who gets to decide the line of delineation?

    Dana (023079) — 1/23/2019 @ 2:59 pm

    I think you’re talking about my comment, Dana. My apologies if I’m mistaken.

    I’m openly asking what does the MAGA hat means. I’ve asked many times over the last few days.

    Voting for Trump is one thing. Maybe someone really thought Hillary was that bad, I guess, that Trump was actually worse. Or the Egg McMuffin guy wasn’t a valid protest.

    Wearing a MAGA hat is not a vote for the lesser of evils. It’s an endorsement. And it’s an endorsement of a man who is detestable. I could list all of the reasons I say so, and his racism is on the list, but whatever. Endorse him on your heat with a red hat, and people can, in good faith, interpret this as being cool with Trump’s actions and statements.

    Can people who wear a MAGA hat also wear it apart from the racism as well?

    Good question. I have never worn one. When you wear one, if you do, what do you mean by it? And what do you think about the racism in the GOP?

    Dustin (6d7686)

  32. acknowledging reality is too bad, I would say tepid pundit is very blanc mange, just willing to take a step or two over the ledge, but not willing to ruffle feathers,

    narciso (d1f714)

  33. I’m confused Dustin. I thought aphrael made the original comment (that I quoted):

    I think it’s fair to say that wearing a MAGA hat is an explicit endorsement of Trump.

    I don’t think that racism is the only reason people have for endorsing Trump.

    I think they’re fools who’ve been taken in by a con man (although there are some who recognize that he’s a con man but still think that the ability they think he has to break up the political aristocracy makes it worth going along with the con), but racism isn’t the only reason people support Trump.

    That it’s the most salient thing about Trump for a lot of us on the left doesn’t mean it is for his supporters.

    aphrael (e0cdc9) — 1/23/2019 @ 2:49 pm

    Well said. I imagine almost no one would say the reason they support Trump is his racism.

    But also, a lot of them, perhaps a majority, are ambivalent to it.

    Again, there are reasons the KKK endorses the same guy that minorities overwhelmingly reject. I don’t think these reasons are easily dismissed.

    Dustin (6d7686) — 1/23/2019 @ 2:55 pm

    Dana (023079)

  34. 13… well said, harkin! I share your opinion.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  35. That’s cool, Dana. I think I’m asking questions that are sure to incite, but that’s not my intention.

    Obviously it is possible to wear a MAGA hat for good reasons. I mean, all it says is “Make America Great Again.” Taken literally, I support that. Hell, if someone were trying to ban them, I could easily see myself wearing one myself just to protest in favor of free speech.

    But worn as an endorsement of the GOP today, I think it’s a difficult question, because I am very frustrated with the GOP today. It’s at this point where it cannot even communicate with itself about what the party is about. I personally believe Trump made a deal with the devil, the Russians. And the Russians are interested in making American anything but great, and they are using racial division as one of their methods. The GOP needs to talk about it more.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  36. Has Sasse of the Platte River said anything about the Lincoln memorial ambush, has romney, rhetorical, same with events in caracas,

    narciso (d1f714)

  37. For me, it comes down to this. I went to a small private school in the 1970’s, whe. Tensions were lower (at least where I lived then). And if a teen from that school had been provoked to that degree, I think there’s a good chance Mr. Professional Agitator would have been busted in the snoot,

    These kids,were in the Nation’s Capitol wearing caps showing solidarity with the sitting President. Now, I understand why the Left finds that provoking, but damnit, they can either start policing their own (and you can’t tell me that there aren’t Lefty protesters wearing all kinds of provoking tripe all over DC; I used to live there and the Mall is reliably full of the Leftist Hysteria du Jure) or sit down and shut their pie holes.

    C. S. P. Schofield (531c3d)

  38. Dustin,

    I’ve posted frequently here about all manner of ugliness and unacceptable behavior on the right side of the aisle. I am an equal-opportunity condemner of bigoted hate, and given the nimwits on both sides of the aisle, there is always plenty to work with.

    Also, if you were familiar with my writing here, you would know I haven’t worn a MAGA hat given my less than enthusiastic view of Trump, and mentioned yesterday that I only very recently saw an individual wear one in public in my town (which is a pretty even red/blue split). Because you (or aphreal) declared that people who wear MAGA hats endorse Trump, and that people who actually voted for Trump may have done so for reasons other than racism, I felt like we should be able to then assume that people who wear MAGA hats wear can wear them not being supportive of his racist leanings, but for other reasons (just like others who voted for him apart from the racism).

    Dana (023079)

  39. didn’t you hear, csp, that is tantamount to crimethink, certainly a violation of a safe space,

    we know now, that the younger phillips offspring was sponsored by Sharpton who in turn supports the jew hating march that even the splc decided to abandon, ostensibly the so called womens march in Michigan

    narciso (d1f714)

  40. and there were statements stannard, made as recently as 2012, where he pretended he was a Vietnam veteran, in other places he hedged his bet,

    narciso (d1f714)

  41. and since he never left the states, but fought in the battle of el toro mcas, well now he is not a Vietnam veteran, in any understanding of the word,

    narciso (d1f714)

  42. Who gets to decide the line of delineation?”

    Apparently only the people who say wearing the hat is to endorse Trump, thereby endorsing racism. I’ve also heard this week that it means white privilege, hatred of civil rights, frat boy rape societies etc.

    It’s the same thing when many of us who support enforcing immigration law are called racist (I’m mixed race if that matters to anyone), thank you for your incorrect opinion.

    I did not vote for Trump, I do not have a MAGA hat. But I know plenty of people who did vote for him and a few who have the hats and none of them are racists. They are all hard-working Americans (of more than one race) who think voting for him was a good idea. I know what they would say if someone called them a racist for supporting Trump, thank you for your incorrect opinion.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  43. in other ranch news, this was something w couldn’t commit to doing, and we have seen the results of that decision,

    https://babalublog.com/2019/01/23/bombshell-of-the-day-trump-recognizes-juan-guaido-as-interim-president-of-venezuela/

    narciso (d1f714)

  44. “Lawsuits will start to occur next week.”

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  45. So Nathan Philips was “in teh schiff” in war-torn Nebraska… glad he made it out of there.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  46. it’s logical that a total fraud and racial arsonist like Sharpton, and conspiratorial shill like Daniel sheehan, would sponsor the likes of the phillips,

    narciso (d1f714)

  47. he has night terrors, whenever a compressor starts up, coronello, it’s that thing called text.

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. Phillips “described the experience of being ordered by a superior to completely take-apart of a Kenmore Walk-In Freezer.“

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  49. meanwhile despite nbc having invested 400 million in buzzfeed, it is having to cut its staff 15%, I think that’s cause and effect, but ymmv,

    narciso (d1f714)

  50. So private stannard was a cold warrior, I’m surprised not to have come up with that.

    Narciso (f50977)

  51. “Quiet deletion by the practitioner……..”

    I glad she removed the smear but she’s already poisoned the minds of her followers. Disgusting.

    I saw that Bill Kristol had also quietly deleted his tweet asking if Trump will call Phillips and apologize.

    The National Review also removed their piece titled “The Covington Students Might as Well Have Just Spit on the Cross

    Check out the kid who actually tweeted a correction and deleted the original. Any guesses as to which tweet had 60 retweets and which had 38,000?

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/01/21/pundits-condemning-covington-kids-backtrack-after-seeing-fuller-video/

    Lots of folks suffering from TDS and just uninformed hate in general quietly shoveling dirt over their pile.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  52. It’s the same thing when many of us who support enforcing immigration law are called racist (I’m mixed race if that matters to anyone), thank you for your incorrect opinion.

    There is a difference between wanting existing law enforced and supporting the Trumpist agenda of actively discouraging even legal immigration. There are no arguments for the latter that are not grounded in bigotry and ignorance.

    But I know plenty of people who did vote for him and a few who have the hats and none of them are racists.
    Even if you resolve all doubts in his favor, Trump is ignorant, bigoted, incoherent, not particularly effective, egotistical, more inclined to alienate than persuade people, and babbles publicly in a manner that has only the vaguest connection to actual facts. On his own confession he routinely engaged in corrupt acts during his business career. People who wear MAGA gear, display Trumpian bumper stickers, etc. are informing the public at large that they don’t think any of that is important. They may not be racist, but they are publicly declaring things like integrity don’t really matter.

    Kishnevi (546427)

  53. The ‘Twitter Universe'; never was a vast, virtual void so aptly named.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. MAGA hats and “facecrimes”… and some of these media outlets are still bumping this crap.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  55. Savanah Guthrie is a disgusting human being.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  56. “People who wear MAGA gear, display Trumpian bumper stickers, etc. are informing the public at large that they don’t think any of that is important. They may not be racist, but they are publicly declaring things like integrity don’t really matter”

    The ones I know took everything they knew about Trump before the election and decided the alternative was even worse.

    They also agree with some of what he’s doing. I don’t know any who agree with everything.

    I’m sure also that they would say: “So if I cared about integrity I should’ve voted Hillary?”

    That would give them a chuckle.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  57. Time after time, opportunities are presented that allow all of us to make the just, moral and/or ethical choice… to come out on the side of what is right and to firmly point out what’s wrong and the reasons for that.

    Best wishes to all and a hope that you are able to look at your own reflection in the mirror and not flinch.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  58. Yes the best strategy would be mcmuffins and mayor mccheese cool neutrality, sponsored by qatar

    Narciso (f50977)

  59. For some reason almost everyone affiliated with the GOP needs to reference his race when mocking him. The same people do not understand why the same racist crap on video was racist. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    Ugh? You mean the way the Main Scum Media references his race at every mention to elevate him, not to say venerate him? Native American veteran? Native American elder? Hasn’t he, himself, taken on the status of Professional Indian?

    So, yeah, I’m going to pull his feathers and poke his hontas with burlesque Indian references. Like Big Red Radical Shaman say: Ridicule is brave’s plenty potent weapon.

    nk (dbc370)

  60. Seeing as Turkey has sponsored many of the insurgents in Syria and some in Libya, its ironic that Graham relies so much on the formerm

    Narciso (f50977)

  61. Harkin, I was referring only to wearing MAGA gear and other public displays of Trump support. I said nothing about voting for him. As I have said before, I voted for a third party candidate because I saw both Trump and Hillary to be profoundly corrupt.

    Kishnevi (546427)

  62. So tread lightly as you go about patting each other on the poo-poo and extolling the virtues of your powers of recognizing racism in the facial expression of a nervous teenager.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  63. Maga hatcrime today is it facecrime, tea party hair shirt yesterday, what other scarlet brand do you recommend.

    Narciso (f50977)

  64. This entire episode and the ridiculous behavior of people who are old enough and most certainly educated enough to know better is enough to make one’s hair hurt.

    If we as a people aren’t better than this, we’ve fallen a long way, baby.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  65. One of the chaperones was on Fox and said the kids brought all that gear with them. It’s apparently a trend with some teens. –Colonel Klink

    Colonel, do you have any further information about this. I’ve been trying to determine whether the kids brought the MAGA gear or bought it in W,DC.

    I combed the Fox News site and found two interviews with Chaperones…one man and one women. Neither addressed the issue.

    https://video.foxnews.com/v/5992331288001/#sp=show-clips

    https://video.foxnews.com/v/5992604348001/#sp=show-clips

    Calfed (ab1180)

  66. They were attacked while they were waiting for a bus by a sect which has had a homicidal splinter group (the yahweh cult) and the coldest warrior private maytag.

    Narciso (f50977)

  67.  Perhaps the Covington Catholic boys did not bring MAGA gear with them to the march; perhaps they just purchased the gear from street vendors at some point during the day. 

    I flat out don’t understand how this theory could have changed your perspective unless the subtext itls an assumption that the longer the kids wore the gear the more likely the kids were thoughtless and the chaperones were careless.

    No matter how long they wore it the only altercation happened in the final moments of their day.

    BuDuh (11cc68)

  68. “I was referring only to wearing MAGA gear and other public displays of Trump support. I said nothing about voting for him”

    You’re still doing that thing that created this week’s dumpster fire of bad conclusions, believing you know why people do what they do. I’ll just take it for the obvious reason, they want to Make America Great Again, whatever that means to them; anything more could be the product of your own beliefs and biases.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  69. Harkin, then consider this. Despite your considerable sympathy for Trump’s purported goals, you don’t have any MAGA gear. Why not?
    (I don’t mean to be personal. Feel free to ignore the question if you wish.)

    Kishnevi (546427)

  70. Well, the cogent pragmatic left, as much as that sounds like a oxymoron,is not going to risk turning those kids into any kind of martyr during a shutdown. The provocation will be caused by fringies with nothing to lose.

    urbanleftbehind (6542f3)

  71. The altercation only happened because the Black Hebrews and Private Maytag madd it happen. Nothing at all HAD to happen. Kids waiting for bus. Protesters protest. ZERO reason for these two groups to have any sort of friction between them except that BHs and Freon Ranger MADE it happen. This is obvious to a child. You need to be really, really “smart” to make it appear any differently. There are things in life that are hard. This, and the Kavanaugh kerfluffle, and the Zimmerman idiocy, etc. etc. etc. are not one of those things.

    JSkorcher (4aeca3)

  72. “When the tags say Made In the USA” is a good out.

    urbanleftbehind (6542f3)

  73. Technically its private carrier, winning the future do we end up bere, the same could have been said about Sanford nearly 7 years ago.

    Narciso (f50977)

  74. I won’t ignore the question as I don’t have any MAGA gear either. I don’t go to political rallies. Just don’t. OK went to one, to see Giulianai in 2008. But he was virtually across the street and I had some free time. But if I went to a rally of any type and I was given a MAGA cap, I probably would wear it. Or maybe not. But the point is, the question at its base is none of your damn business. My choices on what to wear do not need to be justified to anyone. A MAGA hat is not a klan hood. I will not be intimidated by anyone on what to wear. Letting other people define you is weak. This is a fact that is probably at the root of the hysteria from the left here. They are too weak to be individuals and think for themselves. They lack character. Hence their collectivist nature. NeverTrumpers have a similar problem but it stems from many of them coming from the chattering classes and not knowing how to do much productive work.

    JSkorcher (4aeca3)

  75. “Harkin, then consider this. Despite your considerable sympathy for Trump’s purported goals, you don’t have any MAGA gear. Why not?”

    Which goals are you referring to?

    harkin (e6b10c)

  76. UPDATE: Megan McArdle has one of her typically excellent takes on the whole situation. Sorry to have to point you to Twitter to read it, but I think that’s the only place she has published it.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  77. I was thinking of getting a t-shirt that says “I Beat Anorexia”, but I can’t find it in my size.

    nk (dbc370)

  78. > You have stated that you see Trump as a racist. You have declared that people who wear MAGA hats endorse Trump, and that people who actually voted for Trump may have done so for reasons other than racism. Can people who wear a MAGA hat also wear it apart from the racism as well?

    Of course they can! They’re asserting that they endorse Trump, but they’re saying *nothing* about *why* they endorse Trump. It would seem uncharitable in the extreme of me to *presume* they are doing it for nefarious motives, absent some extrinsic evidence that they are.

    > Who gets to decide the line of delineation?

    this is where it gets tricky. of course they’re going to *deny* being racist, right? so their denials have to be taken in the context of the overall picture and the overall context — of what else they do in their life, how they comport themselves, the context of the event, etc, etc. there is no bright clear line.

    i’m going to be forthright: i don’t *care* about this event enough to do the investigation that would allow me to come to a conclusion as to whether they were being racist in that moment or not.

    my point was merely to note that wearing a MAGA hat is not *per se* evidence of racism. it isn’t. it’s per se evidence of *Trump support*, which isn’t the same thing.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  79. “A female Harvard University graduate student who had a MAGA hat and legally-owned guns in her room was asked by her apartment owner to move out after her roommates reportedly searched through her room and found the guns…..

    …..I’ve consulted my attorney and have had several conversations today with Captain Donovan of the Somerville Police department, who at my request and Leyla’s invitation, this afternoon was allowed to inspect the premises and the storage of the firearms in question and have determined that they are being safely and legally stored under lock and key. In addition, the captain affirmed that Leyla is in compliance with state laws and has an interview scheduled with him on December 11 as part of her permit application to possess the firearms in her home…..

    ……That being said, it’s clear that the rest of the housemates are extremely uncomfortable with the idea of firearms being kept in the household and this difference in philosophy and lifestyle has led to an uncomfortable level of tension and stress for the entire household. Consequently, since it’s clear that Leyla wants to keep her firearms, it would be best for all parties if she finds another place to live.

    She’s a past victim of domestic violence and keeps firearms for protection.

    A woman’s right to choose eh?

    It was THE HAT! That’s where we had her.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/38879/female-harvard-student-maga-hat-finds-roommates-hank-berrien

    harkin (e6b10c)

  80. “I’m openly asking what does the MAGA hat means. I’ve asked many times over the last few days.”
    Dustin (6d7686) — 1/23/2019 @ 3:31 pm

    As with personal pronouns, marriage, Columbus Day, and even the American flag, it means what the Left wants it to mean no matter the original meaning. And, there’s some of us who are happy to go along since it allows the new meaning to be used as a cudgel.

    Munroe (1851cb)

  81. Again with the virtue signaling, there was no reason for this event to be singled out unless you look at how they ben smithed the March on life or you might call it weigeling

    Narciso (f50977)

  82. Brotherico is wrong.

    There is a clear distinction between a “Vietnam vet” and a “Vietnam Era vet.” My wife and I served together in the early 70s in the Navy on Okinawa. We both have the National Defense ribbon. But we are not Vietnam vets and would never claim to be.

    This article from the Veteran’s Administration makes this point very clear.

    https://www.blogs.va.gov/VAntage/46851/va-joins-department-defense-thanking-vietnam-war-era-veterans-families/

    jack burton (84790b)

  83. Good stuff from McCardle:

    Megan McArdle
    @asymmetricinfo
    So first, obvious thing: Any piece of information that comes from Phillips should be utterly discounted. Journalists do not rely on sources who tell two different versions of major events in quick succession, after video has disproven the first account. For obvious reasons…..

    I can’t say whether he was lying, as Kyle Smith has alleged, or whether he was simply confused. It doesn’t matter. He’s totally unreliable……

    So what do we see if we look at the longer context? We see a group of boys who are doing cheers, and an older man who strides into their group to bang a drum. We see boys who are smiling and cheering. They’re not spewing racist insults……

    Of course, that’s not all some people see. Some people see The Smirk.

    So let’s talk about the many, many people who claim, from a short, badly filmed video that a kid is smirking rather than, as he says, nervously smiling because he has no idea what’s going on and is trying to stay unconfrontational.

    I believe they believe they “can tell”. This is, unfortunately, not true.

    People are just not that good at reading other people, particularly out of context, particularly people they don’t know. If they were, then society would look very different, because you could always spot liars and you’d never have to wonder about someone else’s motives……

    So if you admit there’s at least a possibility that you cannot accurately detect the difference between a “smirk” and a “nervous smile” in someone you have never met, what are you left with?

    You know what you’re left with. The hats.

    The soul-readers here would be wise to consider her words.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  84. I say he was smirking.
    And that a smirk, and the contempt for jackassery it conveyed, was completely appropriate in the circumstances.

    Kishnevi (546427)

  85. The other demonstrations at DC that day:
    “Lower taxes!”
    “Raise taxes!”
    “Stop grinning at Persians smirking at Indians!”

    nk (dbc370)

  86. The March for Life was damaged in a “double bank shot in billiards” way – losing its luster to the Right rather than bowling the blood of the Left after the organizer’s Peter-like denial/milquetoast acknowledgement of CCHS’ participation.

    urbanleftbehind (6542f3)

  87. No comprendo, if the right is the bulwinkle and Buckley’s regret then thars considerable category error.

    Narciso (f50977)

  88. And you see how some of the commenters have missed the point.

    Narciso (f50977)

  89. JKorcher, at 78: by wearing a shirt or a hat with a message, you’re trying to communicate something. I don’t think “what are you trying to communicate with that?” is a question that’s reasonably answered with “none of your damned business.”

    Let’s use a different example.

    Over the holidays, on a trail in the outskirts of Dallas, I ran into some people wearing Bolsonaro tshirts. OK, they’re clearly trying to communicate support for Bolsonaro, right?

    I know that one of the things Bolsonaro *openly* stands for is the idea that being gay is so horribly wrong that he’d rather his son die in a car accident than be gay.

    I think it’s reasonable of me to *wonder* whether that particular proposition is one they were endorsing by wearing the tshirt. But it would be wrong of me to *presume* that they meant to endorse the proposition. Absent a conversation with them, or some extrinsic evidence, all I can do is hold the question in abeyance — maybe they meant this, maybe they didn’t.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  90. From McCardle:

    “the sheer viciousness coming from people I know to be fundamentally decent disturbed me enormously”.

    That’s kinda the catchphrase for the age, unfortunately.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  91. I’m just saying the MFL may have came off as a benign (or worse, a milquetoast RINO coopted dog and pony show playing with one hand behind its back) or as much a victim of the MAGA kids as a patron. Infrequent posters on the previous thread were expressing disappointments in the same vein. My FB friends are so laser focused on smashing the jaw of these Tucker CobraKai that said yoots purposevfor being in DC has generally gone unremarked. Also, had they been from (M)Lexington (no, really) or one of those southern Buford Highway like enclaves, they might have threw down some Schiff about the several Virgen banners carried by the marchers.

    urbanleftbehind (6542f3)

  92. Well when you’re in the burning dumpster fire that Rousseff enabled, you cant br terribly picky about thr fireman

    Narciso (f50977)

  93. When I see someone with a Resistance AF t-shirt, it may annoy the LF out of me, but it’s none of my business to tell that person that they should not have worn it. That I may be annoyed is my problem. The only time I’ve been truly bothered by such a thing was upon seeing Che shirts, but that’s because the Sob murdered people. But still, you want to broadcast to the world how ignorant AF you are, point noted. Glad you self-identified. Such a thing is actually helping me. Yet to my main point, this is the difference. The much stronger pull of identity with politics and the collective group that resides in the leftist mentality. To those on the right, it just a hat that endorses an idea. To those on the left, it’s an all encompassing identity.

    JSkorcher (4aeca3)

  94. 95. Kind of leads me to wonder how she can still consider those people to be “fundamentally decent.” The cognitive dissonance isn’t lost on me.

    Gryph (08c844)

  95. There is a mid-30’s person in my life who wears a vintage Reagan T-shirt as well as an Abolish ICE T-shirt. Only one is something he supports.

    Dana (023079)

  96. Is that “unsupported” tshirt relegated to around the house duty or worn while traversing certain areas? My 2 examples are a elementary school grandparents association (not yet for me) and the habit I have of wearing White Sox gear while traveling even though I’m a Cubs fan (I wear the Sox shirt to project thuggishness and a lower income to scare off would be robbers).

    urbanleftbehind (6542f3)

  97. One good result of the interaction here re: this subject matter is it has given each of us a better feel for the motivation and critical thinking skills of those we’ve interacted with. Very enlightening!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  98. There is a mid-30’s person in my life who wears a vintage Reagan T-shirt as well as an Abolish ICE T-shirt. Only one is something he supports.

    Not necessarily. While I have no special insight into Reagan’s thinking, I suspect demanding identification dicuments from a busload of Greyhound passengers, and arresting potential deportees who showed up for hearings or were picking up their kids at school would not thrill him. Or at least cause him to enquire if there was not a better way of doing things.

    Kishnevi (2bcf76)

  99. JSkorcher,

    > but it’s none of my business to tell that person that they should not have worn it.

    sure. i’m not disagreeing with that. i’m saying that it *is* your business to wonder, and maybe to ask, what they meant by it — and that wondering is a natural reaction to an ambiguous communication.

    but i also picked my example carefully. ardent support for the belief that it’s better to be dead than gay *can threaten me*. not so much in this country now, but certainly in the world, people are still killed for being gay, by people who think that it’s better that way, and wearing a Bolsonaro shirt is a signal that someone *might* believe that, because after all, they’re endorsing a man who has said it *of his own son*.

    so it’s my business because it could threaten me! but it’s also unfair of me to *assume* that’s what they mean. i need to take care to protect myself, but i can’t reasonably treat them as though they’ve said something they haven’t, just because i’m afraid that’s what they *might* mean.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  100. Yes the law doesn’t mean a thing, Reagan had to have chastened that tip o’Neil did not follow through,

    Narciso (f50977)

  101. Everyone is doing the kids a disservice. Nobody in that situation seems to have acted correctly, although I’m not sure that Phillips didn’t make a better assumption about the CC boys than turned out to be what happened.

    If we are just looking at the reaction, though, we have a video of a bunch of boys responding inappropriately to a dude playing a drum. The first reaction was an over the top condemnation of their behavior. The second response was to tell them they are all great and wonderful. Neither of these was true. They were a bunch of boys who were probably already energized from the rally who then had that energy turned to aggression, which they did not deal with very well. In neither of the reactions are the boys getting the idea that what they did wasn’t right because they are being defensive of the first and lauded by the second. However, what they did also wasn’t really OK and someone (their parents and their school) should be having a conversation with them about that.

    Nic (896fdf)

  102. They didnt do anything wring it is the actual hate group the black Israelites who cursed up a blue streak and the trespasser stannard who harassed them.

    Narciso (f50977)

  103. . To those on the right, it just a hat that endorses an idea.
    But that is exactly the point. As channelled by Trump the idea of Making America Great Again is laced with bigotry, ignorance, and xenophobia in its most literal sense, fear of strangers or fear of the foreign…and also the false idea conveyed by the last word…the idea that America stopped being great.

    Kishnevi (2bcf76)

  104. Aaaaaaannnnnnndddddddd… scene.

    (just because the other group was wrong didn’t make the boys right.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  105. “Where are their parents, where are their teachers, where are their pastors?” —- Joe Scarborough)

    “This is Trump’s America. And it brought me to tears. What are we teaching our young people? Why is this ok? How is this ok? Please help me understand. Because right now I feel like my heart is living outside of my body” —- Alyssa Milano

    “#CovingtonCatholic high school seems like a hate factory to me” —- Howard Dean

    “You little dirty-ass crackers. Your day coming. Your day coming … ’cause your little dusty asses wouldn’t walk down a street in a black neighborhood, and go walk up on nobody playing no games like that… Yeah, ’cause I will stick my foot in your little ass.” —- Black Hebrew Israelite

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  106. Gryph, at 100: as a pragmatic matter, throwing someone under the bus and declaring them to not be fundamentally decent because they have a momentary lapse of reason is … problematic. we all have our moments.

    A more interesting question would be: are those moments becoming more common and/or more destructive? if so, why?

    aphrael (3f0569)

  107. However, what they did also wasn’t really OK and someone (their parents and their school) should be having a conversation with them about that.

    That’s fine, and I made a similar point in my initial post on the matter. I no longer fault Nicholas Sandmann for his behavior; I said then and I believe now that I would have handled it the same way when I was his age. I would have liked to have seen the other boys tone down their act a bit, but again, given the circumstances I can hardly blame them. If we’re assigning blame here among the three parties, I would estimate it’s 50% Black Hebrews, 48% Nathan Phillips, 2% Covington Catholic boys. [edited]

    JVW (54fd0b)

  108. They didnt do anything wring it is the actual hate group the black Israelites who cursed up a blue streak and the trespasser stannard who harassed them.

    No, some of them did stuff they should not have done. But the primary victim of The Outrage, Sandmann, acted reasonably and deserves admiration, not blame.

    Kishnevi (2bcf76)

  109. There isn’t even a term in the dsm iv for that kind of grand mail delusion, of course the Israelites cyrsefest has to be ignored.

    Narciso (f50977)

  110. Watch the video shot by the Black Israelites.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  111. They really agree with the bulwinkle, defending ones self against outrageous charges is unseemly.

    Narciso (f50977)

  112. Dustin,

    I’ve posted frequently here about all manner of ugliness and unacceptable behavior on the right side of the aisle. I am an equal-opportunity condemner of bigoted hate, and given the nimwits on both sides of the aisle, there is always plenty to work with.

    Also, if you were familiar with my writing here, you would know I haven’t worn a MAGA hat given my less than enthusiastic view of Trump, and mentioned yesterday that I only very recently saw an individual wear one in public in my town (which is a pretty even red/blue split). Because you (or aphreal) declared that people who wear MAGA hats endorse Trump, and that people who actually voted for Trump may have done so for reasons other than racism, I felt like we should be able to then assume that people who wear MAGA hats wear can wear them not being supportive of his racist leanings, but for other reasons (just like others who voted for him apart from the racism).

    Dana (023079) — 1/23/2019 @ 3:43 pm

    Of course I am familiar with your views on Trump, and that it’s not likely you’re wearing such a hat. But if you did, what would that mean? That’s all I was asking. I provided a scenario where I would wear a MAGA hat… obviously not everyone who wears one is supporting racism.

    I felt like we should be able to then assume that people who wear MAGA hats wear can wear them not being supportive of his racist leanings

    Yes, we agree. I think I’ve said the same thing a few times, but perhaps not clearly enough.

    However, some of them are wearing them because they are racist, I’m absolutely sure. Racism is a substantial, rather common problem.

    I’ve posted frequently here about all manner of ugliness and unacceptable behavior on the right side of the aisle.

    Please write more on this subject. It’s important and more interesting than the posts on this scandal. Why do you think the KKK endorsed Trump, and why do the vast majority of blacks reject the GOP? I don’t ask this with some ulterior agenda. I genuinely want to understand these things more. If you’re interpreting some kind of hidden insult, then you misunderstood me.

    One good result of the interaction here re: this subject matter is it has given each of us a better feel for the motivation and critical thinking skills of those we’ve interacted with. Very enlightening!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/23/2019 @ 8:23 pm

    Thanks! What a nice thing to say!

    Dustin (6d7686)

  113. And I think the Schwarze Yidden (hey, if they aspire to membership in the Chosen People, they need to talk the lingo) are really irrelevant. It is Elder* Phillips who provoked the media coverage, provoked the Smirk, and otherwise deserves all the blame here.

    *Calling him an Elder by itself jusified the Smirk.

    Kishnevi (2bcf76)

  114. “It’s important to tell the story of where we’ve been and what others are doing as well because we look at, for example, Germany, and how they’ve been able or they’re attempt to try to heal after the Holocaust. Germany paid reparations and they went through that process and they had that truth-telling process. And until America tells the truth about itself, we’re not going to heal.”

    —- Alexandria Ocasional-Cortex (D-NY)

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  115. However, what they did also wasn’t really OK and someone (their parents and their school) should be having a conversation with them about that.

    — Boys, Covington is a Catholic school? Haven’t the fathers taught you anything about turning the other cheek?


    — Well …
    — … well, there was Father Kelly … that’s what I’ve heard … but now he’s been transferred to the Diocese Office.

    nk (dbc370)

  116. Dustin, at 21:

    I think it’s entirely possible, for any given Trump supporter, that either

    (a) they don’t recognize as racist things that I think are obviously racist
    (b) they recognize it but find other things more important.

    I can imagine, for example, an ardently pro-life person for whom ending abortion is the only issue they care about, who sees Trump through the lens of “the liberal baby killers hate him”, and who *even if they acknowledged racism* would care less about that than they do about the likelihood that his judges will overturn Roe.

    Is such a person, to the extent they recognize the racism at all, tacitly tolerating it? Yes, but only in that they are acting on a priority ranking; they could very well think that racism is the second worst thing behind baby-killing — and how am I to know where they rank it, just from the fact that they endorse Trump?

    I mean, there are people to whom this obviously doesn’t apply. But knowing nothing about someone other than their choice to support Trump, on what basis do I put them in any given bucket?

    aphrael (3f0569)

  117. Colonel Haiku, aside from the somewhat oversimplified and idealized retelling of German history there, what exactly do you object to about it?

    aphrael (3f0569)

  118. What do you tell your kids about being accosted by a weirdo? I tell my daughter: “Scream real loud! Run away!”

    nk (dbc370)

  119. America has committed such crime that it must pay reparations that’s what the 32 trillion price tag is about. She really belongs in a straight jacket however her seat on the oversight and appropriations ay dios mio.

    Narciso (f50977)

  120. Kishnevi (2bcf76) — 1/23/2019 @ 8:41 pm

    As channelled by Trump the idea of Making America Great Again is laced with bigotry, ignorance, and xenophobia in its most literal sense, fear of strangers or fear of the foreign…and also the false idea conveyed by the last word…the idea that America stopped being great.

    That’s right, and I’m glad to see you did not include racism, because it’s not racism.

    Here was Trump last Saturday afternoon, making the incredible statement:

    If we build a powerful and fully designed see-through steel barrier on our southern border, the crime rate and drug problem in our country would be quickly and greatly reduced. Some say it could be cut in half.

    Sammy Finkelman (b0ece0)

  121. @113 we have to teach our kids about how to deal with their own aggressive impulses. I’m a school admin and a lot of times I hear “so and so made me do it” implying it isn’t their fault and I have to let them off. At this point I have very little patience with that explanation. They chose. Maybe the reaction was planned, maybe it wasn’t, but they either chose or never learned not to let their emotions overrun their brains. In order to live in a civilized society, people have to learn to take responsibility for their own actions and emotions. People have to learn how to act correctly even when provoked and the only way for that to happen is for the responsible adults in a teenager’s life to teach them.

    Nic (896fdf)

  122. I don’t know what Haiku objects to, but I object to some chingada comparing America to Nazi Germany.

    nk (dbc370)

  123. I did his thing to the comparison of America to Nazi Germany, aphrael. Just like I objected to the Democrat Governor of New York signing a bill that extended the ability to abort a baby up to the time of birth while all those around him applauded.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  124. Narciso — I think the crime of importing people from other continents against their will, bringing them overseas under miserable conditions and then enslaving them, was a tremendous crime against humanity. America was *not* unique in this, by any means, but it’s a blight on the history of the western world, as was the treatment of the Native Americans by the Europeans.

    We still have an enormous population in our midst who are descended from the people to whom that was done, and whose accumulated capital is simply lower than it would be otherwise.

    I’m not sold on reparations. But it’s *quite clear* that we haven’t healed from the wounds it caused, and I think the allegation that we won’t be until we can all sit down and talk and feel like we’ve been heard, and the wrongs of the past earnestly acknowledged and apologized for, is correct.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  125. Just a comment about Trump being racist.

    Is it true than more blacks and Hispanics supported Trump than GWB?

    I’m no Trump fan, but narrative is infectious.

    Simon Jester (3575b9)

  126. You know who really need to get a grip on their anger they people that cracked skulls in San Jose, that set a limo on fire in DC. Who threatened to poison inaugural delegates, they were ‘guilty as sin but free as a bird’

    Narciso (f50977)

  127. I did his thing to I did not like

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  128. 128… yes, it seemed pretty obvious that all but the loony would find that objectionable

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  129. . But if you did, what would that mean? That’s all I was asking. I provided a scenario where I would wear a MAGA hat… obviously not everyone who wears one is supporting it

    Yes, but wearing one means you know passersby will think you support an ignorant corrupt bigot despite his ignorance, bigotry, and corruption. Is that the idea you really mean to convey.

    Kishnevi (2bcf76)

  130. @125 “If someone is coming through, get out of the way if possible.” (unless you are standing in a line in many parts of Europe. They don’t line up worth beans.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  131. “But it’s *quite clear* that we haven’t healed from the wounds it caused, “

    Hard to heal when professional race-baiters and grievance mongers pick at the scab. Democrats profit from that in the way of votes.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  132. Colonel Haiku — I can understand an emotional reaction of anger and resentment to being compared to Nazi Germany, absolutely. Especially since the people of today are being unfairly held accountable for the behavior of our ancestors (in the case of the slave trade).

    But put the emotion aside for a minute, and answer me this: credible estimates say that between 1-2 million people died while being transported as slaves. On the order of six million people were killed in the holocaust, at a time when the overall world population was much higher.

    Granted it’s not quite the same because of the difference between hundreds of years of the slave trade and half a decade of the holocaust, but *even so*, isn’t there a level on which the comparison is reasonable?

    aphrael (3f0569)

  133. Also hard to heal when the legitimate grievance of a large minority is ignored by the majority, and anyone who tries to discuss it is shut down as a race-baiter and grievance-monger.

    The wounds don’t just go away in silence. They fester.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  134. 138 No.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  135. The only persons living in America right now (or even for the last 100 years or so) who might have owned slaves would be immigrants from some sh!thole country.

    nk (dbc370)

  136. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez (D-NY) says reparations are needed not so much for slavery but for more recent things, like the harm caused by the New Deal (because the FHA supported redlining)

    Also the world will end in 12 years if action is not taken quickly (evidently based on some climate report last year which said that was the point of no return.)

    Also that the government shutdown prevented freshmen members of Congress from opening up district offices because the people who would bring in furniture are furloughed (which seems not to be true.)

    Sammy Finkelman (b0ece0)

  137. Can you elaborate on that? Why is it flatly unreasonable to compare the kidnapping of more than ten million people, with the careless disregard for the death of 10-20% of them, and their subsequent enslavement, to the holocaust?

    I’ll reiterate that I am not holding the people of today responsible for the actions of the people of the past; i’m asking why it’s unreasonable to compare the actions of the slavers of the past with the actions of the nazis of the past.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  138. @132 If you are saying that all this is overblown, I don’t disagree, but people also are capable of being critical of more than one thing at a time. (I mean, not really the news media of course, they seem only capable of kicking a single dead horse until it turns into horseburger, but most of people.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  139. 139… there is no one alive today nor are there parents or grandparents or great-grandparents, or great-great grandparents of anyone that were directly impacted by slavery.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  140. Sammy – that’s possible, but it’s not in the quote Colonel Haiku posted, and it’s the quote i’m interested in.

    Redlining was an unjust behavior *by the government* which harmed people still living today. Why is it inappropriate for the people so harmed to ask for redress of the harm? I mean, yeah, my grandparents’ generation stopped doing it when they were in power, and that was great, but it doesn’t undo the harm that was already done by that point.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  141. Colonel, at 146, so is it then inappropriate to compare *any* historical event from before the twentieth century to the Holocaust?

    I mean, if what you’re focused on is comparing the *harm currently felt by people currently living*, then you’re right — the harm currently experienced by people currently living is much greater from the Holocaust.

    But if what you’re focused on is the harm experienced by the people who directly experienced the events, regardless of whether they’re currently living or not (as I am, for the purposes of this conversation), then I don’t get it.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  142. This is inception level lunacy, you have a grifter supported by a pair of left wing loons, who has been a fraud for 40 years, as well as some malcontents harassing some young men a

    Narciso (f50977)

  143. With racist and homophobic language, but you have this whole crew of psychos like the one from Minnesota making apologies for them.

    Narciso (f50977)

  144. @148 and yet it is still possible for everyone to have not acted right.

    Nic (896fdf)

  145. Incidentally, @colonel haiku, thank you for having this conversation with me. it’s a tough conversation to have, and i respect your willingness to engage.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  146. Nic, at 151: true in general but i don’t understand your application of it here.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  147. Simon, best I could do is this

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/02/01/trumps-claim-that-he-did-substantially-better-with-blacks-than-other-gop-presidential-candidates/?utm_term=.4fe827f2dc32

    Trump almost tied Bush 43 and Reagan in 1984(8% in 2016 vs 9% in 2000 and 1984) but in every other election not involving Obama, Trump did worse with blacks. Nixon and Ford did best.

    As for Hispanics, it seems Bush 43 did far better than any other Republican, but Trump in 2016 did better than most other GOP candidates.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/11/09/hispanic-vote-election-2016-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/93540772/

    Kishnevi (2bcf76)

  148. @152 I’m still talking about the original topic situation. No one made the perfect choices.

    Nic (896fdf)

  149. Honestly you want to pretend that this was not a concerted deliberate provocations from the fraud who pushed Taiwan brawley on forward and the other arsonist, this was never accidental except they had to go to plan b. And make a mountain out of a molehill.

    Narciso (f50977)

  150. “The urge to believe in something can be so great that people can sincerely see things that aren’t there. The social media obsession with racism and toxic masculinity eventually turned the Covington boys’ ‘smirking faces’ into the new Evil Clown sighting of 2019.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  151. That’s from Fernandez (Belmont) right,

    Narciso (f50977)

  152. Like I said the albino in the davinci code.

    Narciso (f50977)

  153. @155 It is generally helpful in communication to be clear about what you are trying to say. That comment too referential and so it’s confusing and doesn’t seem to convey much meaning.

    Nic (896fdf)

  154. Al Sharpton and Daniel sheehan two leaches on the body politic, one a tax cheat and racial arsonist the other a Marxist conspiracists are behind this episode.

    Narciso (f50977)

  155. 139… there is no one alive today nor are there parents or grandparents or great-grandparents, or great-great grandparents of anyone that were directly impacted by slavery.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/23/2019 @ 9:15 pm
    Exactly this. (Although a little too far back. My great grandfather was born about 10 years before the Civil War. So there are probably a bunch of people alive who are the great grandchildren of slaves, and even more people who are the great great grandchildren of slaves) problem is equating reparations paid by Germany to actual Holocaust survivors and/or children of Holocaust victims with ‘reparations ‘ paid to third or fourth generation descendants of slaves. And a whole bunch of those paying potential reparations are like me descsendants if people not living in the US before 1865,

    Kishnevi (2bcf76)

  156. I think it’s entirely possible, for any given Trump supporter, that either

    (a) they don’t recognize as racist things that I think are obviously racist
    (b) they recognize it but find other things more important.

    Aphrael, very insightful, and not unlike pretty much everything else frustrating about our current political climate. And of course, the other thing that is more important is often that the other political party is the most urgent, most dire evil ever to make it way onto a ballot, and we better stop them now.

    Just a comment about Trump being racist.

    Is it true than more blacks and Hispanics supported Trump than GWB?

    I’m no Trump fan, but narrative is infectious.

    Simon Jester (3575b9) — 1/23/2019 @ 9:01 pm

    I don’t know if Trump’s 8% black support was better than Bush’s, but he did do better than Bush with hispanics. Of course racists on the democrat side do way, way better. And the KKK support was probably even more lopsided.

    To be clear, I’m not saying the GOP is unique. I’m saying they are especially untrustworthy on racism. Trust is in the eye of the beholder, and on this matter, both the KKK and the black voter agree on something. I think it has a lot to do with the caustic reaction to any question about racism that we see from many conservatives.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  157. @160 So don’t rely on anyone’s narrative. Watch all the videos and make up your own mind. I don’t care if “whosis says it and whosis is bad so it must be bad”. Maybe this one time in their life whosis is correct. That doesn’t matter if you look at the material itself and make up your own mind.

    Nic (896fdf)

  158. Dustin @ 118,

    Did I sound testy to you, because in re-reading my comment, I sounded testy to me. It was unintentional, but apologies nonethless.

    With that, you asked:

    But if you did [wear a MAGA hat], what would that mean? That’s all I was asking.

    I think it would mean I was supporting Trump, whether everything he did or something specific. I’m not conivnced that by presenting oneself in a Hillary hat or MAGA hat or Obama hat, one is really able to distinguish only a particular aspect of the individual as a whole. The wearer may mean that but to those seeing him wear it, I’m thinking that the natural response is to react to the hat as a whole. I think that would be as shortsighted of the viewer reacting to the hat as a wholehearted support of everything Trump as it is of the individual wearing the hat and thinking it signals only as a protest against politics as usual, and not for support of Trump per se.

    However, some of them are wearing them because they are racist, I’m absolutely sure. Racism is a substantial, rather common problem.

    I agree with this as well. Although, I will say that the Trump supporters I know voted for him only because he wasn’t Hillary and are as loving and kind and gracious and non-racist as anyone I have ever known.

    I find the subject of this post quite interesting. At least once we get past partisan talking points and lines. I think it’s rather revealing about people’s views of human nature and the ability and/or struggle to see something through another’s eyes. And if possible, being able to set aside presuppositions, embedded points of view and beliefs.

    Dana (023079)

  159. Dana, @165: for what it’s worth, you sounded testy *with me*, which I was kinda taken aback by, but I chalked it up to this being a subject everyone is kinda testy about.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  160. George Bush was called a racist. John McCain was called a racist. Mitt Romney was called a racist.

    Ultimately, when everyone is called a racist, the charge starts to lose its impact.

    Calfed (ab1180)

  161. All of this going on and I just watched a show on teh Yellowstone Super Volcano and the potential impact on the Earth of the inevitable re-awakening and explosion.

    Sonuva biscuit, always somethin’ to worry about…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  162. Just like with smod coronello, it over promises, I guess it could happen were due by how many millions of years. So could a giant mutant star goat.

    Narciso (f50977)

  163. Oh gee, aphrael, I certainly didn’t mean to be. I just re-read my comment, and I think I was trying to be as concise and clear as possible and it came off as testy as a result. For that, I am sorry. I have no reason to be testy with you (or Dustin). (I thought I got my frustration with this subject out of my system at #15. Apparently not!)

    Dana (023079)

  164. Dana, @170: I do not think an apology is necessary, and I will happily accept it in the spirit with which it was offered. :)

    One of my great sorrows in the last several years is the degree to which people on both sides of the Trump issue have lost sight of the fact that we’re all in this together, and that we’re all still going to be here tomorrow, so we need to figure out how to get along with one another and *prosper* with one another. I wish I saw a way out of this mess, but I don’t, and so all I can do is soldier on with that view and try to share it. :)

    aphrael (3f0569)

  165. I really dont see that scrutiny of the left here, among the regulars. We cant judge their motives just their actions, the opposite with the right.

    Narciso (f50977)

  166. @170. I believe the topic of Vietnam era vet vs Vietnam vet got hashed out further up the comments.

    Lets pretend that Phillips kicks puppies in his spare time. Do the boys from Covington know that? No. All they know is some really old guy with a drum is walking slowly toward them and they are p1ssed off because of that other group. I can look at the various videos from various angles and make my own decision about whether they acted right or not, independent of whether or not I think Philips is a good person or not. I may or may not feel sorry for Philips depending on what I find out about him, but it has no bearing on my judgement of the boys’ actions.

    Nic (896fdf)

  167. No because the racist tag keeps getting bandied about even though the only using racist epithets are the black Israelites as for the dances with carrier fellow, who the heck knows what was the proper resonse.

    Narciso (f50977)

  168. @175 Lets say that George stole a thing. The media then says he’s a KKK member and he stole it because he’s a racist and it’s a hate crime. Then we discover that it is a different George who is into the KKK. Did the first George suddenly not steal a thing?

    Nic (896fdf)

  169. You presume that someone stole something even though nothing is missing; you’re really bad at analogies, noe the people who accused that person have a long record of theft fraud and incitement to assault dont trust those people.

    Narciso (f50977)

  170. He stole it on camera.

    Nic (896fdf)

  171. Oh and btw reparations were specifically paid after world war one, did she forget ths vekakte Versailles treaty. Its time for the Billy Madison quote.

    Narciso (f50977)

  172. The left lives on racism. They breed hate and envy. They promise that they will take from those who have more than you and all will be equal.

    Venezuela is the result. Cuba is the result. The Soviet Union is the result. Death and despair is the result.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  173. the facts are meaningless. what were the facts in horst wessels death. who cares? waving the bloody shirt, remember ferguson mo. most of the rioters didn’t know or care who the victim was. they are the victims. who gives a sh*t the kids were either punks or saints. we have chosen up sides like the right has been demanding for many years. now you say wait a minute I didn’t realize the other side has many more!

    lany (fa4a24)

  174. Oh and the truth and reconciliation commission in south Africa, yes you’ll feel confident trusting her with your money.

    Narciso (f50977)

  175. 180 you forgot denmark and sweden among many others. columbia next door is capitalism in action. how many killed in venezuela compared to the numbers killed in america?

    lany (fa4a24)

  176. Killing babies right before birth in New York.
    What a disgusting group of savages.

    mg (8cbc69)

  177. Recommended: The Atlantic on what the media needs to fix. And how they got the story so very wrong.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/media-must-learn-covington-catholic-story/581035/

    The conclusion:

    How could the elite media—The New York Times, let’s say—have protected themselves from this event, which has served to reinforce millions of Americans’ belief that traditional journalistic outlets are purveyors of “fake news”? They might have hewed to a concept that once went by the quaint term “journalistic ethics.” Among other things, journalistic ethics held that if you didn’t have the reporting to support a story, and if that story had the potential to hurt its subjects, and if those subjects were private citizens, and if they were moreover minors, you didn’t run the story. You kept reporting it; you let yourself get scooped; and you accepted that speed is not the highest value. Otherwise, you were the trash press.

    At 8:30 yesterday morning, as I was typing this essay, The New York Times emailed me. The subject line was “Ethics Reminders for Freelance Journalists.” (I have occasionally published essays and reviews in the Times). It informed me, inter alia, that the Times expected all of its journalists, both freelance and staff, “to protect the integrity and credibility of Times journalism.” This meant, in part, safeguarding the Times’ “reputation for fairness and impartiality.”

    I am prompted to issue my own ethics reminders for The New York Times. Here they are: You were partly responsible for the election of Trump because you are the most influential newspaper in the country, and you are not fair or impartial. Millions of Americans believe you hate them and that you will causally harm them. Two years ago, they fought back against you, and they won. If Trump wins again, you will once again have played a small but important role in that victory.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  178. good read, KevinM.
    thanks

    mg (8cbc69)

  179. FYI
    1. It is now being reported by a site called the Catholic News Agency, which seems to be real but probably conservative Catholic and not to be confused with the Catholic News Service, that Phillips invaded mass at the I.C. Basillica Saturday night in the same way he invaded the kids’ group on Friday. I have only seen it reported in that one place
    2. I think the government makes a distinction between Vietnam Veteran and Vietnam-era Veteran. Phillips was apparently the latter. WaPo has actually issued a correction line to this effect on its first article published Saturday
    3. In my opinion, the whole thing with the Black Hebrews is a side story. It is an explanation of why the kids where doing basketball cheers and is possibly why when Phillips 20-person parade came marching into their group, they thought he was joining them in their cheers. But the real story that I have not seen covered anywhere involves the professional camera crew Phillips had with him and the Survival Media Agency and the rapid twittering by a still unidentified group (account now deleted). You still see false claims that the iconic picture is just some random amateur video that some random person put on Instagram (also now deleted)

    Dennis Byron (0c883e)

  180. Warning: Do not post the George Orwell “1984” reference. Leftists do not realize that “1984” was written about them. They’ll just say “I knew smirking was a crime.”

    Dennis Byron (0c883e)

  181. Good God, don’t you people sleep?

    105 aphrael:

    I agree with/understand what you are saying and understand where you’re coming from but as a minority, by hiding yourself, or more accurately your differences from society, while you may make yourself as an individual safer, are you not in some small incremental way making being gay more dangerous? While I certainly wouldn’t advocate engaging in flamboyant, over-the-top stereotypical gay behavior, diminish yourself and you diminish gays’ presence in society. Now as you state there is a matter of risk assessment and personal safety is definitely a concern. But, and I apparently cannot say this enough, being political at a political rally in the capitol of the nation that (supposedly) is the beacon of personal freedom for the world should not be a form of behavior that creates conflict. In Iran or North Korea, yes. Definitely. BUT THIS IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA…ahem…and our nation’s capital that we are talking about. Sigh…

    JSkorcher (4aeca3)

  182. 1099 Kishnevi….Trump is not Hitler. Yet another thing that must be repeated as infintum now. He’s not xenophobic nor racist. There is plenty of documentation on this if you will notice the things many minority nd other people who now oppose him said before he seriously ran for president. This is obvious to those willing to do the analysis.

    JSkorcher (4aeca3)

  183. I go to bed early.

    mg (8cbc69)

  184. @86 MAGA gear has become a surprisingly efficient Rorschach test.

    To paraphrase a wise sage, if your first reaction to seeing someone in MAGA gear is to label them a racist you might be the one with the problem. The immediate and visceral reactions people feel obligated to emit in response to MAGA or Trump says more about them than wearing a MAGA hat, by itself, says about the person wearing it.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  185. “Volokh is now at Reason”

    It might be about 2 years now….I think they have shrunk their visibility some….but still are a great go-to source on legal matters

    AJ_Liberty (165d19)

  186. Answering the question:

    “Good God, don’t you people sleep?”

    I notice that my post says 2:30 in the morning but that must be PDT. I got up this morning at 5 ET like I always do after 8 solid

    Dennis Byron (0c883e)

  187. One may wonder why the left and so much of the MSM (BIRM) is so wrapped up in this story… a lot of it may be some sort of revenge fantasy against some obnoxious person from their school-daze past. They couldn’t retaliate properly back then, so they rush to join a twitter nut-mob that fantasizes about committing violence and extracting their delayed revenge. So the CCHS kid (and maybe Brett Kavanaugh before him) will suffice as proxies, as these nitwits act out their little psycho-dramas. They have lots of crazy and they will travel. Expect this to happen again and again.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  188. @BuckSexton
    “Do you see your own fault?” the super serious mainstream journo [Savannah Guthrie] asks the 15 year old boy, who has received death threats for looking at an adult who rallied to the side of an activist mob that yelled racial and anti-gay slurs at children.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  189. Meanwhile…..

    “At least 1,500 private jets are expected to descend on Davos and nearby airports in Switzerland this week as the international financial and political elite gathers to talk about global climate challenges.

    That would be up from the more than 1,300 aircraft movements seen at last year’s forum, despite climate change registering as the top risk factor identified for the global economy in a survey of World Economic Forum (WEF) movers and shakers last week.

    Sir David Attenborough, a lead speaker this year, has already stated that climate is the issue of our time.”

    harkin (e6b10c)

  190. the climate change hoax is for sure a top threat to the global economy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  191. Meanwhile, back at teh ranch, our government continues to argue about what they should overspend on…

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  192. I’d pay hard cash to see AOC wearing one of those Carmen Miranda fruit hats…

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  193. Mamá, mamá!
    Yo quiero!
    Reparaciones!
    Mamá, mamá!
    Yo quiero!
    Reparaciones!
    Mamaaá!

    nk (dbc370)

  194. HA!!!

    https://youtu.be/GUwXd6IJ5ZU

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  195. Sassy!

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  196. One more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-uFJq6NMSQ Sorry for the ad.

    nk (dbc370)

  197. So the other broke girl, is supposed to be the Katniss everdeen of this era, not buying it.

    Narciso (3ca8cf)

  198. Here’s where loyal Trump supporters may agree with fact-checkers. The conclusion:

    Ocasio-Cortez deserves credit for using her high profile to bring attention to income inequality. However, she undermines her message when she plays fast and loose with statistics. A lot of Americans do not earn enough for a living wage, but we cannot find evidence that it is the majority. Amazon and Walmart pay well above the minimum wage, contrary to her statement, and it is tendentious to claim those companies get some sort of a wealth transfer from the public when such benefits flow to all low-wage workers in many companies. Overall, she earns Three Pinocchios.

    She can claim that she’s morally right when she’s factually wrong, but being so wrong on the facts still says something about her morality.

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  199. Socialism is theft. She is morally wrong in both theory and fact.

    nk (dbc370)

  200. That was the dog trainer sticking up for Tommy boy Maduro,

    Narciso (3ca8cf)

  201. the catholic church is heap plenty socialist all by its amoral self

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  202. Onion is now owned by Univision which is down to selling the furniture to pay Jorge ramos.

    Narciso (3ca8cf)

  203. Imagine when enough of the voting public (citizens and non-citizens alike) believe she is right.

    This is why the Democrats’ goal has always been to maximize peoples’ (citizens and non-citizens alike) dependence on government and why the black voting plantation puts a lie to the delusional meme that it’s the GOP practicing the greater share of racism. The result is poverty/illiteracy/crime/kids without fathers etc. but hey votes are priority one.

    If their true goal was to help minorities/the poor they would be doing everything they could to decrease unemployment in those sectors. But self-sufficient people don’t vote as they’re told to the tune of 92%.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  204. Patrons of restaurants and coffee shops in Berkeley, California, who don’t bring a reusable cup for their beverage will have to pay a 25-cent fee for a disposable cup as part of an ordinance approved by city officials to reduce restaurant waste.

    […]

    Restaurants would keep all proceeds, and it would be up to them to decide what to do with the extra money. The funds, for example, could be used to replace plastic cutlery for more environmentally friendly silverware, she added.

    this is that city where people poop their hepatitis on the sidewalk

    and they’re worried about restaurant waste

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  205. I find the subject of this post quite interesting. At least once we get past partisan talking points and lines. I think it’s rather revealing about people’s views of human nature and the ability and/or struggle to see something through another’s eyes. And if possible, being able to set aside presuppositions, embedded points of view and beliefs.

    Dana (023079) — 1/23/2019 @ 9:51 pm

    Thank you for the intelligent responses, Dana! No apologies were needed, and I’m the one raising the ugly topic. I think this kind of topic is difficult to engage in because it cuts so deep for our history, and also for what many people experience in their day to day lives.

    As you’re saying, I am revealing something about my own difficulty understanding what would lead someone to support Trump. I’m assuming they have considered what that man really is, and are OK with it, but you’re right that isn’t necessarily the case. The MSM’s inability to be reliable on facts is the best protection Trump could ask for, because his supporters could just assume every ugly thing they hear about Trump is a lie.

    The left lives on racism. They breed hate and envy. They promise that they will take from those who have more than you and all will be equal.

    Venezuela is the result. Cuba is the result. The Soviet Union is the result. Death and despair is the result.

    NJRob (4d595c) — 1/23/2019 @ 11:28 pm

    I think this is a very interesting observation, because it is partly right. The left does rely on an argument about racism for votes. They are cynical, but they are also taking advantage of what the GOP hands them on a silver platter.

    Why is it the KKK endorsed Trump? Why is it Trump had such a hard time distancing himself from David Duke? All those Neo Nazis that ran for office last year… they ran as Republicans. And blacks reject the gop by over 90%… do Republicans really think they aren’t making this decision rationally?

    Very few people are arguing Trump isn’t a bigot. It would be tedious to keep hammering why. But the GOP used to be the party of MLK and Lincoln. What seems like a tremendous burden at the polls is also an opportunity. If the GOP were able to start actually addressing this subject proudly, seeking out the issue and trying to solve it, they would see a change like the democrats saw in 1964.

    Like I said at the beginning of the thread, I am done talking about the Covington situation, but its power comes from this issue, and the issue won’t go away. America’s racial division is constantly exploited, and it hurts us.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  206. Conservatives have been calling everything they disagree with “Socialism” for so long that the word has lost all meaning.

    “black voting plantation”

    Imagine being the kind of person who believes something like this.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  207. Their priorities seem to move up to 19th century London standards I would think.

    Name a Marxist dictator that the major papers haven’t endorsed by action or omission

    Narciso (3ca8cf)

  208. Voting for John Conyers as Detroit literally modeled robocop, that qualifies same for Rangel of the million dollar tax dodge.

    Narciso (3ca8cf)

  209. There are reasons why some minorities reject the GOP in enormous numbers.

    Yes. The main reason is that minorities tend to be poor and benefit from state redistribution and race-conscious set-aside programs. So it isn’t surprising that they generally support the party of more redistribution and more set-aside programs. Look at how Tim Scott did compared to Lindsey Graham when they ran in the same year (2014). He didn’t do very differently among black voters, as far as I can tell, and the same is true of John James or Michael Steele or Lynn Swann or any other black Republican candidate.

    With that in mind, what are these MAGA hats really about?

    They are associated with Trump. Trump is currently the leader of the pro-life party. The kids were at a pro-life march. Not complicated.

    I personally believe Trump made a deal with the devil, the Russians. And the Russians are interested in making American anything but great, and they are using racial division as one of their methods.

    The Russians are not “the devil.” And they certainly don’t need to do much to spread racial division in this country. It existed long before Russia was setting up a Twitter account seen by 100 people, or whatever. (The work of the devil!)

    bates (dddb3b)

  210. russia’s a scapegoat

    classical unadorned scapegoat

    fascists like the nevertrump national review nazis and the CNN Jake Tapper fake news, they always need lots of scapegoats

    this is fundamental to their fascist worldview

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  211. the catholic church is heap plenty socialist all by its amoral self

    Yes, yes, it is. Stalinist in fact, with The Boss at the top, the Politburo just below him, and the commissars under them. It’s socialism as the intermediate stage of communism with True Communism still to come. That would be The Millennium, I suppose. Did you know that Stalin was a seminarian?

    nk (dbc370)

  212. “All those Neo Nazis that ran for office last year… they ran as Republicans. And blacks reject the gop by over 90%… do Republicans really think they aren’t making this decision rationally?”
    Dustin (6d7686) — 1/24/2019 @ 8:37 am

    Why do convicted felons, where they’re allowed to vote, overwhelmingly vote Democrat? Why do parents in stable families with children lean Republican?

    Who cares?

    Should what group A or B think sway how we think about party C or D or issue E? If yes, then it makes total sense that an internet mob bum rushing a group of kids would sway you to join in, as you did.

    Munroe (1b112d)

  213. The main reason is that minorities tend to be poor and benefit from state redistribution and race-conscious set-aside programs.

    I don’t agree. I think a wealthy black voter is less likely to vote for the GOP than a poor white voter, so it’s clearly something else. I think this is exactly what the GOP by and large thinks of blacks, and is a great example of what a MAGA hat might be interpreted to mean, even if that wasn’t the intention.

    I personally vote with my heart, for what I think is genuinely right for everyone. I often vote against my own specific interests. I think most people do the same.

    They are associated with Trump. Trump is currently the leader of the pro-life party. The kids were at a pro-life march. Not complicated.

    We talked about this yesterday, and this doesn’t add up at all. Trump stated repeatedly, over decades, that he was pro-choice, would never ban partial birth abortion, and he held major events for the founder of NARAL Pro Choice America. His flip flop on Abortion was probably the single most cynical flip flop he made when running for president, and anyone who is really motivated by the abortion issue would be well aware of this. Why would you celebrate someone whose support surely helped the abortion industry so much over so many years at a pro-life event? That interpretation is forced. It’s like wearing a Susan Collins T-Shirt and a Lisa Murkowski Button to a Pro-Life Event. It wasn’t about Trump’s abortion stance.

    The MAGA hat was much more likely to be intended to be a protest on some level to all the Trump haters around the same area. It was, at minimum, a recognition of the deep division, and standing one’s ground in support of Trump specifically, and therefore tolerating all the terrible things about Trump, including, of course, that he has no integrity, is a bigot, treats women like crap, and paid off prostitutes with scummy lawyers. Maybe hat wearers aren’t celebrating every single one of those items (certainly they aren’t unless they are truly crazy) but they are accepting it, which is offensive to good people.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  214. The Russians are not “the devil.” And they certainly don’t need to do much to spread racial division in this country. It existed long before Russia was setting up a Twitter account seen by 100 people, or whatever. (The work of the devil!)

    bates (dddb3b) — 1/24/2019 @ 8:45 am

    I’m sorry I wanted to add one more point. I don’t know what the Russian people themselves think, but I do believe that the Russian government is, more or less, the devil. I think they are actually evil. History gives me a lot to justify my opinion.

    Also, genuine thanks for answering me politely on my questions, even though they are questions that usually inspire ugliness. So many others have made this personal, and that is the wrong way for the GOP to go.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  215. i didn’t know Mr. Stalin went to seminary

    that would make a great series for the CW

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  216. I never thought this platform would be so driven by trump hatred, that it would not make an unequivocal defense of these young men, when assailed by a fraud like stannard and a literal homophobic racist clique like the black Israelites,

    Narciso (3ca8cf)

  217. The similarities between the time of Mussolini and what the Left is successfully doing or trying to do in current times are striking. Had to be something similar to the hatred of the MAGA hat back then. Liberal Fascism.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  218. > anyone who is really motivated by the abortion issue would be well aware of this.

    while i think that’s true for people with historical experience and knowledge, i don’t think it’s necessarily true for teenagers who don’t remember the pre-2015 Trump.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  219. I never thought this platform would be so driven by trump hatred, that it would not make an unequivocal defense of these young men, when assailed by a fraud like stannard and a literal homophobic racist clique like the black Israelites,

    You don’t want people to ‘equivocate’ in agreeing with you? I never even comment at all if I agree with everyone. That’s the most boring thing I could do with my spare time.

    The day the GOP nominated Trump it made a lot of these issues much easier to discuss. The GOP has needed to get right on its racism for a long time, and nominating a bigot is, at least, a way to point out the problem is extreme and real to people who are in denial about it, and think it’s about greedy blacks voting themselves more benefits.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  220. “The result is poverty/illiteracy/crime/kids without fathers etc. but hey votes are priority one.”

    The Left will always place much more value on what their mass-delusion frames as “good intentions” than results of their policies

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  221. The Russians aren’t the “devil”, but Putin has been devilish in his consistently working against American interests. It’s really about Putin and his network of pet oligarchs. The Russian people are just his victims.

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  222. The Left and their useful idiots will always be among us…

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  223. Trump has an important border wall update:

    In a political move designed to garner the support of Christian housewives everywhere, President Trump announced Monday that he has hired Chip and Joanna Gaines to install shiplap all along the southern border wall.
    The Gaines duo will freshen up the parts of the border that currently have fencing with attractive weathered shiplap in addition to installing the distressed barn paneling on new portions of the barrier the Trump administration hopes to build.
    “We’re really going to breathe some new life into this space to make it our own,” Joanna Gaines said as she and Chip took a trip down to the border to see what they were looking at for the remodel. “I’m feeling like if we go with some shiplap in some neutral tones, that will really brighten up the space and give it a rustic feel.”
    An excited Chip Gaines attempted to knock down the current barrier with his sledgehammer but was crestfallen to learn the revitalization project didn’t require demolition of any sort.
    At publishing time, Trump had fired Chip and Joanna after they had decided they wanted the southern border to have an “open concept” feel.

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  224. More on Nathan Phillips, prevaricating agitator:

    https://lidblog.com/nathan-philips-vietnam/

    D.GOOCH

    GOOCH (270456)

  225. while i think that’s true for people with historical experience and knowledge, i don’t think it’s necessarily true for teenagers who don’t remember the pre-2015 Trump.

    aphrael (3f0569) — 1/24/2019 @ 9:12 am

    I’m not really interested in talking about these kids, actually, but that is an interesting point. These days, information is so easy to come by on our phones. I don’t think anyone interested in politics has an excuse to not be aware of the basics. If you’re promoting a politician at a specific issue, it’s fair to say you should know what that politician has done with that issue. I wouldn’t expect a teenager to wear a Romney hat to a ‘Repeal Obamacare’ rally, for example.

    But no one is wearing a Trump hat because of his volume of leadership on the pro-life front. They either are unaware of him on the issue, or realize he’s been an outspoken pro-choice leader for decades. Or they are just wrong, I guess. I suppose I could wear a Che shirt to a Federalist Society event and just say I was too young to remember what Che stood for.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  226. “mass-delusion frames as “good intentions” than results of their policies”

    Cutting taxes will reduce the deficit!

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  227. Maybe Obama, Holder and the rest of them were on to something a few years back with that indictment of a national plague of racist cops. It was good they set race relations back with their hyperbole, as it was a golden opportunity that prompted a national discussion on what law enforcement had been needing to deal with for decades.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  228. Or perhaps it was not a national problem, but an excuse to foment discord and distrust among Americans.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  229. > These days, information is so easy to come by on our phones.

    On the one hand, yes.

    On the other hand … for almost every fact, there’s someone out there baldly declaring that the fact is a lie propounded by people with evil motives.

    Many *adults* don’t have the skills to seperate fact from fiction in such an environment. We’ll get there eventually — the same thing happened with the advent of printing — but it may take a generation or three, to figure out how to know who to trust and who to ignore.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  230. “Cutting taxes will reduce the deficit!”

    —- Davethulhu

    Overspending and not dealing with it CAN go on forever!

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  231. aphrael, you’re probably on to the real reason people do wear MAGA hats and why it was possible for a guy like Trump to be elected in the first place. Even though I’m not one to say any side was an angel in the Covington story, I was amazed at how the press kid much of what really happened. That creates a lot of doubt and hesitation about reality. It’s the best thing for a guy like Trump for people to ponder if any particular scandal is ‘fake news.’

    Dustin (6d7686)

  232. “The best argument in favor of Trump’s presidency is what Trump’s presidency has taught us about the character of the people who oppose him, and who would be wielding power if he weren’t.”

    —- Glenn Reynolds

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  233. From Kevin Williamson, no less… https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/01/covington-catholic-students-smear-job-crisis-of-citizenship/

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb) — 1/24/2019 @ 9:59 am

    INJECT THIS INTO MY VEINS!

    Kevin is my spirit animal here and conveyed my points much more succinctly that I ever could.

    whembly (b9d411)

  234. Cant go to the National sh!t show review.
    fargon losers

    mg (8cbc69)

  235. On a link posted here just recently Trump’s biggest sector of black voters was college-educated makes at 16%.

    His lowest was black females without a college degree at 5%.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  236. “Sane people who insist that the United States in 2019 is something like Germany in the 1930s are liars. They don’t really believe it. They have an investment in hysteria.”

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  237. Where is the fbi and doj in this? Could they be deleting terroristic threats about the Covington kids?
    Wouldn’t put it past those sacks of schiff.

    mg (8cbc69)

  238. You know that feeling you get when you’re glad you not only clicked the link but also read the article? I got it:

    Of course Alyssa Milano is an idiot for insisting that those stupid red hats are “the new white hood.” You know who is even more idiotic than Alyssa Milano? Anybody who gives the furry crack of a rat’s patootie what Alyssa Milano thinks about anything. She’s a moron at 500 yards and a lunatic at a thousand. You know it. If she happens to be a moron and a lunatic who is on your side, that doesn’t make her any less of a moron and a lunatic.

    nk (dbc370)

  239. she’s reduced herself to dirty twitter trash

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  240. Sane people who insist that the United States in 2019 is something like Germany in the 1930s are liars. They don’t really believe it. They have an investment in hysteria.”

    Or that promise that a Trump presidency would lead to Handmaid’s Tale-level oppression of women.

    I’d argue tho that a lot of them do believe it, just look at social media and the Covington kids, It’s an asylum with no walls.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  241. Heh… I like the description harkin… Social media is “…an asylum with no walls.”

    whembly (b9d411)

  242. Maybe Obama, Holder and the rest of them were on to something a few years back with that indictment of a national plague of racist cops. It was good they set race relations back with their hyperbole, as it was a golden opportunity that prompted a national discussion on what law enforcement had been needing to deal with for decades.

    It is interesting that Haiku believes there is a national plague of racist cops that law enforcement has needed to deal with for decades, but he also compares questions about GOP racial problems to “fascism” and “mussolini.”

    Haiku, what do you think law enforcement should do about your perception of their racism? I think ignoring the issue would be a costly mistake for the communities they need to protect. The GOP is a great example of what a failure to address racism looks like. 92% rejection in the polls. A complete freeze on getting their message across. That kind of failure would be dangerous for our communities.

    And Ferguson is a good example, sadly, of what that lack of trust can do. Let’s just suppose there was absolutely no bias or racism in Ferguson, but the perception was there, leading to a powder keg. Is it OK to just dismiss the problem? I think we already have our answer. It’s necessary to roll up our sleeves and openly discuss the issue, and rebuild trust in the areas where Haiku sees, in Haiku’s words “a national plague of racist cops.”

    All I’m asking is for similar honesty about the political leaders as well. We’re on the same page buddy! Bless your heart for bringing this up.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  243. fire fighters are super-racist too

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  244. “Or perhaps it was not a national problem, but an excuse to foment discord and distrust among Americans.”

    Since it may not have been obvious to a few, ^^^^^^^ is my opinion on that issue. I believe same about claims of racism being endemic in the Republican Party.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  245. On a link posted here just recently Trump’s biggest sector of black voters was college-educated makes at 16%.

    So according to Harkin, the vast, vast majority of college educated black men rejected him. Earlier in the thread I was told at least twice that blacks reject Republicans because they are more likely to be dependent on welfare. If Harkin is right about successful blacks also rejecting Trump, that’s not the reason. Something more is going on.

    We don’t have to go far to find it. The very GOP argument that blacks just want that welfare justifies this rejection, and is also a good reason why the KKK endorsed Trump.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  246. Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb) — 1/24/2019 @ 10:51 am

    Actually, I believe Colonel Haiku said

    Maybe Obama, Holder and the rest of them were on to something a few years back with that indictment of a national plague of racist cops.

    It’s a direct quote of what Haiku said.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  247. Just so we’re clear.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  248. I mean, you wouldn’t have said the opposite of what you think just to insult me again. You’ve only done that passive aggressive thing 50000 times now. I am going to assume Haiku was not personally attacking me and genuinely believes, and I quote,

    Maybe Obama, Holder and the rest of them were on to something a few years back with that indictment of a national plague of racist cops.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  249. “The FBI released its official crime tally for 2016 today, and the data flies in the face of the rhetoric that professional athletes rehearsed in revived Black Lives Matter protests over the weekend. Nearly 900 additional blacks were killed in 2016 compared with 2015, bringing the black homicide-victim total to 7,881. Those 7,881 “black bodies,” in the parlance of Ta-Nehisi Coates, are 1,305 more than the number of white victims (which in this case includes most Hispanics) for the same period, though blacks are only 13 percent of the nation’s population. The increase in black homicide deaths last year comes on top of a previous 900-victim increase between 2014 and 2015.
    Who is killing these black victims? Not whites, and not the police, but other blacks. In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to the Washington Post. The Post categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as “unarmed.” That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest. Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer. Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population. That 18.5 ratio undoubtedly worsened in 2016, in light of the 53 percent increase in gun murders of officers—committed vastly and disproportionately by black males. Among all homicide suspects whose race was known, white killers of blacks numbered only 243.

    Violent crime has now risen by a significant amount for two consecutive years. The total number of violent crimes rose 4.1 percent in 2016, and estimated homicides rose 8.6 percent. In 2015, violent crime rose by nearly 4 percent and estimated homicides by nearly 11 percent. The last time violence rose two years in a row was 2005–06. The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect. Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened. Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it. Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.
    Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.”

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/hard-data-hollow-protests-15458.html

    Once again the Left creates a false meme and the community (AKA the black voting plantation) pays the price.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  250. I get it Haiku. You’re troubled by the thought of being banned yet again, but you also want to insult me. Oh what to do, what to do. Can’t accept consequences for your choices, can’t just answer my questions or arguments with the respect I showed to you. And you can’t ignore me because a Trump critic has to be insulted every time, right?

    So people who have my views are Mussolini, basically, and you’re suddenly concerned about your plague or racist cops, but now that I answered you politely about it, you want us all to know you didn’t actually mean what you said. Then why did you say it? If you didn’t mean what you said, you must have had some ulterior motive. What was it? Can you speak plainly and own up?

    Dustin (6d7686)

  251. Dustin you perceive a difference of opinion as an attack on you. My posts show a difference of opinion.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  252. A. Difference. Of. Opinion.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  253. Can’t accept consequences for your choices

    speaking of bad choices bread bags seems really determined chuck that last shred of dignity into the wind

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  254. Once again the Left creates a false meme and the community (AKA the black voting plantation) pays the price.

    harkin (e6b10c) — 1/24/2019 @ 10:56 am

    If the GOP thinks that black democrats are a “voting plantation” I can definitely understand Harkin’s statistics showing that even well educated blacks are rejecting the GOP. Pretty awful way to describe blacks who don’t agree with you, to liken them to slaves who have no control of their own decisions.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  255. “And the fact that a couple of children in MAGA hats engaged in boorish behavior — which isn’t even a fact, as it turns out, but a lie constructed and wholesaled with malice aforethought — wouldn’t have told us one damn thing about Donald J. Trump, his administration, or his political supporters at large. The fact that we had a momentary national moral crisis over the (as is turns out, fictitious) actions of a couple of nobody teenagers is all the evidence anybody needs of the fundamentally hysterical and unserious times in which we live. In a sane world, nobody cares about whether a 16-year-old boy somewhere . . . smirked.”

    —- Kevin Williamson

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  256. plantations aren’t really a thing anymore except maybe souplantation

    they’re just metaphors

    except for the soup kind, and last time i went to the soup one it was really hard to find any decent protein there

    it was kind of a waste of time really

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  257. Dustin you perceive a difference of opinion as an attack on you. My posts show a difference of opinion.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb) — 1/24/2019 @ 10:58 am

    I don’t actually care that you were insulting me again. Man to man, you are being a coward who betrays your several apologies to me over the years for doing this exact same thing. If you were being honest about those apologies, for this passive aggressive shtick where you reference details about the commenters you are disagreeing with, then I’m not out of line to note you just can’t stop doing it.

    You should not be talking about the other commenters so much, and focus on our different ideas.

    What difference of opinion do we have? You compared me to Mussolini, but you never explained what you think a MAGA hat means, or what the GOP should do to address its racism problem. Do you think copypasta about how terrible all Trump critics always are is a genuine expression of a difference of opinion? It’s not.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  258. That’s just fighting words about the plantains, now they have to be ripe

    Narciso (3ca8cf)

  259. plantations aren’t really a thing anymore except maybe souplantation

    they’re just metaphors

    For slaves. Who were black. And had no freedom of choice.

    As a reference to black voters who aren’t doing what Trump supporters want them to do.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  260. The green ones are no bueno, speaking of herod, I mean Andrew cuomo

    Narciso (3ca8cf)

  261. Compared you to Mussolini? I was talking about Liberal Fascism, as I mentioned in that comment. Wow.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  262. the green ones are loaded with resistant starch

    and that’s how you do it to where you don’t get yourself a big fat michelle obama butt

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  263. just boil them you be aiight

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  264. “ I can definitely understand Harkin’s statistics showing that even well educated blacks are rejecting the GOP.”

    It also shows that the more educated voted for Trump more than the less educated.

    But if you really like stats check out the article I posted in the comment you pasted from. Then walk tall if you actually push the false meme of an epidemic of racist cops.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  265. For slaves. Who were black. And had no freedom of choice.

    at souplantation you have a LOT of choices just hardly none of them have any protein

    but everyone there is treated equally the same, unless you’re famous

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  266. Compared you to Mussolini? I was talking about Liberal Fascism, as I mentioned in that comment. Wow.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb) — 1/24/2019 @ 11:17 am

    Again, I’m not actually upset that you’re insulting me, man. It’s weird and I know we’ve had this little song and dance many times (often ending with this weepy apology from you). I’m not going for that. I hope you are having a great day aside from being so bent out of shape with my comments.

    The similarities between the time of Mussolini and what the Left is successfully doing or trying to do in current times are striking. Had to be something similar to the hatred of the MAGA hat back then. Liberal Fascism.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb) — 1/24/2019 @ 9:12 am

    But to correct the record, you were very specifically talking about my criticism of MAGA hats, which you were a bit hyperbolic in referencing. You wrote that about 20 minutes after my comment about MAGA hats, and I don’t see any other comments like it. You do this thing where you will just blurt out an insult, and not associate it with someone, but make it clear who you are talking about.

    But relax. I’m not complaining. It is funny that you’re scrambling to deny it again. Why not do me the courtesy of just explaining point by point how the GOP should address racism. If you want to deny it’s there, do that. I’m actually serious that I think it’s the issue.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  267. The standard of conduct one must apply to the Covington Catholic kids, in order to direct substantive criticism there, is so high such that I submit no one, particularly a teenager, could be well and truly expected to meet or exceed it consistently.

    The standard of conduct one must apply to Mr. Phillips, and the Black Israelite group, in order to direct substantive criticism at them, is so low that literally anyone should be able to meet or exceed it consistently – even teenagers.

    But these were adults. D.GOOCH

    GOOCH (270456)

  268. On a link posted here just recently Trump’s biggest sector of black voters was college-educated makes at 16%.
    His lowest was black females without a college degree at 5%.

    That’s not quite true.
    College-educated black men were the most in favor of Trump, but he still lost 78-16, a ratio of almost 5-to-1.
    For black men overall, 81-14 Hillary.
    For black men without a college degree, 82-11 Hillary, which isn’t all that different from the college-educated group.
    For black women, it was 98 to “*” in favor of Hillary. For college-educated, 91-6 Hillary. For black women without a college degree, 95 to “*”.
    There’s really nothing good to take from this and, after Charlottesville, there’s no good reason for Trump to do better if he makes it to 2020.

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  269. Not unless they look at unemployment numbers.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  270. well there’s got to be good in then:

    https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/24/nyt-puff-piece-hate-covington-boys/

    well it’s a tribal mentality, I know those only exist on the right, although education and media, reinforce the same memes 24/7

    narciso (d1f714)

  271. It also shows that the more educated voted for Trump more than the less educated.

    For blacks, that’s true, but among whites, a majority of the college-educated voted for Hillary and majority of the non-college educated voted for Trump. Same for the non-white group.
    Link and link.

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  272. Re: Tribal mentality

    T Silkies
    @evilrussiabear
    I’m so tired of this story but I am honestly not shocked that the media would defend a homophobic hate group instead of taking an L

    What is even less shocking is all the media companies (unfortunately) laying off people and everyone’s like “WHY GOD IS THIS HAPPENING!?”

    harkin (e6b10c)

  273. “ I can definitely understand Harkin’s statistics showing that even well educated blacks are rejecting the GOP.”

    It also shows that the more educated voted for Trump more than the less educated.

    But if you really like stats check out the article I posted in the comment you pasted from.

    harkin (e6b10c) — 1/24/2019 @ 11:21 am

    Meaning 16%, which is a very low percentage.

    That was more of a blog post than an article, in my opinion, but it was a great read and I genuinely appreciate you quoting it, because it was a serious discussion of an ugly problem.

    Then walk tall if you actually push the false meme of an epidemic of racist cops.

    Last time you told me to “walk tall” you were lying about what I said. I was criticizing the mob mentality, and noting how bad it is because the top google result was referencing the Covington kids. You quoted only the part of my comment that noted the bad consequence, clipped out the part where I said the mob was bad, and then criticized me for leading the mob. It was incredibly dishonest. Did you ever acknowledge your error?

    Also, you are doing this same dishonest thing again to say I am pushing the meme of an epidemic of racist cops. Haiku is the one who said that. I merely asked him how we should address it. He then seems to be saying he wasn’t sincere in this comment, so I guess his meaning was hidden.

    Of course, he was trying to get a rise out of me because he knows that I’m a police officer (my comments here represent my personal opinions, and I do not speak for my employer). He’s going to do this thing where he throws his hands up and exclaims how can I ever think he did that oh my gosh. I guess I could quote his apologies for doing this stuff before, and those also came after the same ‘how dare you interpret an insult oh my gosh’ thing, but I honestly am not disturbed by it. Of course I expected a few Trump guys would refuse to respond to me, and instead talk about me.

    Maybe Harkin, instead of talking so much about walking tall, you should walk the walk. Admit you were wrong about who said there was an epidemic of racist cops. Admit you distorted my criticism of the mob by cutting up the comment. Walk tall!

    Dustin (6d7686)

  274. so Daniel sheehan, collaborated with john Kerry and jack blum, on a report that might have well been written in Moscow or managua, almost a decade later gary webb took up the trowel, which Maxine waters picked up, and now is on fx as snowfell

    narciso (d1f714)

  275. 283… you are going well out of your way to interpret comments to be of a personal nature. That is not the case at all.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  276. A word about Alyssa Milano from someone of her generation who thinks she’s a hottie. I’m guessing her problem is that she was a child actress who hit it big (as far as child actresses go) with a eight-year run on a moderately-popular sitcom. That took her up into her late teen years. Once the show was cancelled, she had trouble transitioning into the role of the likable ingenue on the big screen, and instead of going to college or otherwise improving herself she started taking off her clothes for late-night-TV and straight-to-video softcore movies. I would imagine that was a difficult reality check for someone who had had steady work from age 11 to 19. In her late 20s she had her career somehow resurrected on a couple of popular TV series from the Aaron Spelling hit factory, but now that she is into her mid-40s the work has almost completely dried up, there are younger and prettier actresses who can play the sexy seductress parts, she apparently has gone through bankruptcy, and now can only stay relevant by glomming on to various left-wing causes in the air-headed Hollywood leftist idiot role once played by Jane Fonda and Susan Sarandon. God bless her, she’s proof that Hollywood just chews you up and then spits you out.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  277. well buzzfeed, huffington post and oath?? have become more selective,

    narciso (d1f714)

  278. NAD… the folks – irrespective of race – should not be discounted or “othered” just because they didn’t pursue higher education. They are the backbone of America.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  279. Dustin,

    I said walk tall “If you actually push the meme of an epidemic of racist cops”

    Tell me you understand the word ‘IF’.

    The reason I said IF is because of your response to Haiku. I could not understand what you meant.

    Now maybe soak up some of that ‘article’ (not a blog post and the stats were from the FBI/US Govt but yeah ok I’m the dishonest one).

    If it even gets you to understand the difference between City Journal and a blog it will be worth it.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  280. but jonathan morgan told me,

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/cnns-information-warfare-expert-got-duped-by-twitter-bot-pushing-dubious-covington-video/

    I know it’s a difficult control group, but have pro trump publications had to fire people, instead gannett, who treats trump like an apriori felon, hastling every person who ever met him, is shedding staff,

    narciso (d1f714)

  281. A word about Alyssa Milano from someone of her generation who thinks she’s a hottie. I’m guessing her problem is that she was a child actress who hit it big (as far as child actresses go) with a eight-year run on a moderately-popular sitcom. That took her up into her late teen years. Once the show was cancelled, she had trouble transitioning into the role of the likable ingenue on the big screen, and instead of going to college or otherwise improving herself she started taking off her clothes for late-night-TV and straight-to-video softcore movies. I would imagine that was a difficult reality check for someone who had had steady work from age 11 to 19. In her late 20s she had her career somehow resurrected on a couple of popular TV series from the Aaron Spelling hit factory, but now that she is into her mid-40s the work has almost completely dried up, there are younger and prettier actresses who can play the sexy seductress parts, she apparently has gone through bankruptcy, and now can only stay relevant by glomming on to various left-wing causes in the air-headed Hollywood leftist idiot role once played by Jane Fonda and Susan Sarandon. God bless her, she’s proof that Hollywood just chews you up and then spits you out.

    JVW (54fd0b) — 1/24/2019 @ 11:56 am

    She’s just a punchline now. Even SNL drug her cardboard cutout around on that amazing Kavanaugh bit.

    The left’s obsession with celebrity and shallow reasoning is one of its most central problems, and it needs to address how unserious it can be about very serious issues. It’s on this track where everyone competes to be the most outspoken (like Kamala, Chu, and that AOC lady). If they were smarter, they would have offered a serious outreach to fiscal conservatives who support individual liberty. There are an awful lot of disaffected voters right now, and both parties sure do leave a lot of cards on the table.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  282. I said walk tall “If you actually push the meme of an epidemic of racist cops”

    Tell me you understand the word ‘IF’.

    LOL!

    Dustin (6d7686)

  283. “Capitalism is not immoral… it’s amoral.”

    —- Bono at Davos

    I would imagine it’s easy to make such pronouncements while sitting on a pile – hundreds of millions – of dollars, no?

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  284. yes, but susan Sarandon did projects of note, like bull durham in the 80s, jane fondas career was notably more spotty

    narciso (d1f714)

  285. enjoy your money, don’t make us guilty about ours,

    http://thefederalist.com/2019/01/24/25-questions-for-alexandria-ocasio-cortez/

    narciso (d1f714)

  286. NAD… the folks – irrespective of race – should not be discounted or “othered” just because they didn’t pursue higher education. They are the backbone of America.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb) — 1/24/2019 @ 11:57 am

    Differences put aside,

    This is a great point. This is a huge problem that pushes a bloat in academia and also wastes a lot of talent. There’s absolutely nothing wrong, lesser, or dishonorable about a skilled trade, or any other job. We would be so much better off if everyone agreed with you on this point. A whole lot of English majors wind up paying $60k in debt with a job that didn’t necessarily need a degree. Just getting a few years of on the job experience would have been a better education.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  287. Re Allissa Milano or whatever. I’m crying for her. She had her chance with George Costanza. Too bad, so sad.

    JSkorcher (e93d54)

  288. Dustin,

    You also say I selectively quoted you – which I did but not in any way to misrepresent you. I chose the bits that offended me the most, if that was a mis-reading of your overall point it was not intentional.

    Your earlier quote:

    Paul, you’re correct. Kid was a racist punk. People used to ask how white robes could be racist too, and they had that same grin on their faces while they asked. Don’t dignify them with a reaction”

    which appeared to be a response to this:

    “The kid with the MAGA hat owns the racist facial expressions he made”

    really set me off because it seemed to typify the ignorance displayed by so many a few days ago.

    Since im now confused over what you meant, was this sarcasm or did you really believe a facial expression conveyed racism?

    harkin (e6b10c)

  289. When, Skorcher? George had unrealistic (even for pre-Giuliani NYC) game, but I don’t remember an episode (GC did get with characters played by Chelsea Noble and Lisa Edelstein). Even sadder is she needed surgical adjustments to get to C-list; if Keira Knightley had done the same thing, she’d have been unstoppable.

    urbanleftbehind (6542f3)

  290. Ah, my bad. That was Marissa Tomei. Meh. They all look alike upside down.

    JSkorcher (e93d54)

  291. NAD… that fellow seems to be a few fries short of a Happymeal…

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  292. George? Nose to nose his toes would be in it. Toe to toe his nose would be… well… you know teh rest…

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  293. Paul Farhi

    @farhip
    “ A brutal day for digital news organizations: BuzzFeed, HuffPost, AOL, Yahoo all set layoffs. Gannett cuts Pulitzer winner.”

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  294. beto in 2020 if not aoc in 2024.

    lany (d08597)

  295. So basically you were wrong and an asshole.

    Anchovy (0cf277)

  296. ‘ I’m a Vietnam Vet. I served in Marine Corps 72 to 76. I got discharged May 5, 1976. I got honorable discharge and one of the boxes shows peacetime or, what my box says is that I was “in theater” ‘

    “in theater”… does he mean “The Deer Hunter”, or maybe “First Blood”?

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  297. Offtopic:

    Republican plan fails 50-47 in the Senate, with 1 Dem voting Aye (Manchin) and 2 Reps voting No (Lee and Cotton).

    Democratic plan fails 51-44 in the Senate, with 6 Reps voting Aye (Alexander, Collins, Gardner, Isakson, Murkowski, Romney).

    Burr and Wyden voted on the Republican plan but didn’t vote on the Democratic plan.

    Paul, Risch, and Rosen didn’t vote on either.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  298. Harkin, this is not the series of comments we are talking about. And you know that, because I was very specific in that thread. You’ve instead decided to mention comments where I was a lot more controversial. This is called muddying the waters. You hope that this inflammatory comment I made will distract from your dishonest and intentional reversal of my view.

    which I did but not in any way to misrepresent you

    Yes you did.

    Let’s quote what you’ve ignored four times now, from my comment a few days ago:

    Here’s what I actually said:

    Just to be clear, I feel sorry for the kid. He did a stupid thing, and time will not be forgiving. he thought his mob was funny, but that doesn’t mean I think the mob gunning for his future is funny. It’s a shame people can’t learn from mistakes like this with lower stakes.

    Google “racist kid” and he’s at the top. I mean, yeah of course he is as the most famous racist kid in the country, with tens of millions agreeing, and only a fringe defending his conduct.

    It’s hard for me to respond to the stuff directed at me in this thread because that’s boring. Same few people seem to always want to make it about the commenters and not the issues, and I guess we come to these blogs for different reasons.

    Dustin (6d7686) — 1/20/2019 @ 3:15 pm

    The meaning of this comment is clear. I am not going to say a mistake wasn’t a mistake, but the price they are paying for the mistake is unfair. As I said in that thread, “I am critical of the mob trying to destroy his life.”

    You responded by cutting out everything in the comment except the google result part, the negative consequence that I was using as an example of the problem. And I quote:

    “Google “racist kid” and he’s at the top. I mean, yeah of course he is as the most famous racist kid in the country, with tens of millions agreeing, and only a fringe defending his conduct.“

    Are you actually proud of this statement and the fact a smear became googleized conventional wisdom?

    And “tens of millions agreeing” to a complete falsehood is a good description of the leftosphere.

    Walk tall.

    harkin (e6b10c) — 1/20/2019 @ 9:11 pm

    In both of your deliberate efforts to mischaracterize what I say, you insert some weasel language in advance. You know you’re going to get called out for your BS when you’re writing this stuff, so why write it? “Are you actually proud?” and “If” do not conceal that you’re associating a position with me that I obviously never expressed. That you know I never expressed, but chose to pretend I did.

    Perhaps your lives are different from mine, but I don’t see politics blogs as wars among commenters to destroy eachother with dumb strategies like this. I just don’t care. When I vote, I leave most of the ballot blank. I’m tired of this nonsense. It is so boring. There are real places in the world where such confrontation is justified. Internet comments are for thinking about ideas, or they are just a really dumb video game.

    If you need to consistently distort what others say to satisfy your need to be mad at Trump’s critics, maybe there’s actually common ground in the areas you’re distorting. Maybe Trump’s critics aren’t so unreasonable. Hell, maybe democrats are right about some things too. Maybe the GOP does need to improve itself a lot right now. Maybe we agree on some of this stuff, but we’ll never know if you keep saying “well Dustin, If you think the world is flat, you’re a real dumbass.” and I reply “I did not say that.” and you reply “well I said ‘if’ lol”

    Let’s go back to Haiku’s point about the epidemic of racist cops (which he was apparently not sincere about, for reasons we all know but apparently have to pretend we don’t). You’re right that Ferguson’s outcome was terrible and we should be better. Do we just rest on ‘being right’ if we think the cops weren’t racist? Is that sufficient? In a world where communities genuinely distrust cops, and fear racism, do we just rest on ‘well that’s just not true, and democrats are bad’? Does the GOP just rest on your 16% support from educated black voters? Is blame, or being right in our hearts, good enough, when communities are tearing themselves apart? Already know the answer to this will be to blame someone else. That is not effective, and that’s what actually matters to me.

    And again, I mean you no ill will, and I do not care about the personal stuff I’m getting.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  299. Someone needs to smoke a reefer.

    mg (8cbc69)

  300. What is the phrase mr. Farhi,
    Learn to code

    I understand combat operations were winding down in Vietnam but they didnt send him to a y European billet either.

    Narciso (b01a4d)

  301. This website has become little green footballs. You have 300 comments mostly calling all republicans racist or saying their entire political party has a huge racist problem but you selfsame idiots sat by as videos of reverend wright screaming g d America and ranting racial conspiracy theories of how the white man made aids to kill blacks. No that was a ok, Obama was a good man let’s give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Meanwhile a flipping 16 year old catholic kid with a hat on standing there smiling requires your condemnation at the worst or careful tiptoe around implication of what he thinks?

    YEAH OK GO STUFF IT

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  302. Or get laid… no wait… that’s me!

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  303. I’m a Vietnam Vet. I served in Marine Corps 72 to 76. I got discharged May 5, 1976. I got honorable discharge and one of the boxes shows peacetime or, what my box says is that I was “in theater”

    Earning the Vietnam service medal required service OCONUS. Try again, this and the other guy on this website typing about how he got some super special “you are a Vietnam Vet and can say that” dispension on his DD214 are wrong end of story.

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  304. And I disagree about Marisa tomei,

    Narciso (b01a4d)

  305. Mr Pink – wait, what?

    You clearly weren’t here in 2008, when the denizens of this website were *vehemently* unhappy with Jeremiah Wright, and with Obama *because* of Wright.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  306. I’m talking about the writers and owner aphreal. Go back to calling republicans racist, don’t let me stop you.

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  307. Good one, Col.

    mg (8cbc69)

  308. Mr Pink:

    LOL.

    (a) Patterico himself was fairly aghast at Wright and condemned him repeatedly. This is easily demonstrable if you simply google “jeremiah wright patterico”.

    (b) that you can tell me to ‘go back to calling Republicans racist’ when i’ve clearly and explicitly declined to do so in this thread and explained that I think it would be wrong to do so (see, eg, comment #82) demonstrates that you aren’t actually reading what people are writing, and are reacting to your preconceived notions of what they *must* be saying rather than to what they *are* saying.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  309. Update on my OT from above, Wyden has now voted, so it’s 52-44 for the Dem plan and 50-47 for the Rep plan.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  310. I’m a Vietnam Vet. I served in Marine Corps 72 to 76. I got discharged May 5, 1976. I got honorable discharge and one of the boxes shows peacetime or, what my box says is that I was “in theater”

    Earning the Vietnam service medal required service OCONUS. Try again, this and the other guy on this website typing about how he got some super special “you are a Vietnam Vet and can say that” dispension on his DD214 are wrong end of story.

    Mr Pink (07a1b4) — 1/24/2019 @ 1:11 pm

    Thanks for your service. I would resent it if I served in Vietnam, and someone who didn’t was suggesting he was a Recon Ranger in Vietnam. Maybe with the MAGA hat thing it’s fair to say we don’t know what message was being expressed, but I don’t think Phillips had any hesitation to imply he served with more valor than he did.

    This website has become little green footballs. You have 300 comments mostly calling all republicans racist or saying their entire political party has a huge racist problem but you selfsame idiots sat by as videos of reverend wright screaming g d America and ranting racial conspiracy theories of how the white man made aids to kill blacks. No that was a ok, Obama was a good man let’s give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Meanwhile a flipping 16 year old catholic kid with a hat on standing there smiling requires your condemnation at the worst or careful tiptoe around implication of what he thinks?

    YEAH OK GO STUFF IT

    Mr Pink (07a1b4) — 1/24/2019 @ 1:07 pm

    That’s just me and a couple of nobodies saying that stuff. The posters are being a lot more even handed, as usual. I’m the one really on this bit about the GOP’s racist problem. A lot of people have mentioned the kids aren’t a worthy national issue. They are totally 100% correct. Let’s talk about a worthy issue then.

    Regarding Rev. Wright, Patterico wrote:

    One of the most incendiary and unacceptable comments Rev. Wright has made was his repeatedly screaming “God damn America!” in a sermon. in his post L.A. Times Article on Obama-Wright Controversy Downplays the Most Damning Details
    Filed under: 2008 Election,Dog Trainer,General — Patterico @ 1:06 pm

    By referencing the ‘good man’ thing I believe you’re holding grudges for too long (ten years is a long time). Patterico was talking about not raising his kids to be partisan foot-soldiers, and he was right.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  311. I was referencing giving one Democrat politician the benefit of the doubt and meanwhile these kids get parsed to crap and their motivations questioned off what the writers think and not any word out of their mouth.

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  312. YEAH OK GO STUFF IT

    Mr Pink (07a1b4) — 1/24/2019 @ 1:07 pm

    So long, Mr. Pink. I for one won’t miss you.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  313. According to National Review, Nathan Phillips followed up his interacttion (and false complaints) with the Catholic high school kids with an attempted protest or something that night at the Catholic Church’s Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington, D.C. They had to lock the doors.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/how-and-why-media-capitalize-on-anger

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/nathan-phillips-rally-attempted-to-disrupt-mass-at-dcs-national-shrine-91038

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  314. Can we get a Cortez Countdown Clock on the side?

    mg (8cbc69)

  315. Can we get a Cortez Countdown Clock on the side?

    On this site we treat our Delightfully Adorable But Completely Clueless Niece with a great deal of forbearance.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  316. Re #316 , What’s the Sunrise Six (Gardner,Isakson, Alexander, Collins, Murks, Romney) holding out for and can they get to an Eight?

    urbanleftbehind (6542f3)

  317. Sammy’s link is interesting.

    On the basilica steps, Mr. Phillips read a statement which said: “We demand that the students of Covington Catholic High School be reprimanded not just by their school officials but, as seniors, by their upcoming universities.”

    That’s not very nice.

    We demand that the Catholic Church hold itself responsible for the [indistinct] hundred-plus years of genocide that indigenous peoples have endured and endure persistently by implementing the following: with reparations of land and restorations to the indigenous peoples

    I was not aware of genocide occurring to native Americans in the present tense. He’s really drawing a lot from some kids being jackasses. I bet people who actually wanted to do something positive for native Americans are very unhappy that this guy has stolen their thunder. I don’t feel too bad about it, because he was exposed very quickly.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  318. “Harkin, this is not the series of comments we are talking about. And you know that,

    I referenced that I selectively quoted you, and I referenced that earlier comment that set me off to show you why I took the things out of your following comments that seemed the most inflammatory.

    You say it was deliberate, and that I compound my crime by adding weasel language.

    Sorry bro but you could not be more wrong. I know you dont believe that but you are.

    If you think people can be ‘destroyed’ by comments such as mine, I’d hate to think what you’d say if you received 1/50th the treatment given to people who wear MAGA hats or smile at Native Americans pounding a drum in their face.

    As to your comments about cops, racism, the GOP etc., why is it bad to say that ‘Democrats are wrong’ when they insist on pushing a false meme that perpetuates very real pathologies in the community that supports them in droves? And do you honestly deny the connection, and deny that the GOP might get a few more votes from blacks if the Dems quit telling them such dishonest tripe about Republicans, whites, cops etc. Does that even resonate?

    As to your more controversial statement, did you answer if you believed that? I didn’t see anything.

    Not trying to distract, I’m honestly interested. I skipped over many of your comments earlier (which might help explain something but I know, more weaseling) because you seemed deranged on this subject, so if you said anything to clarify (or double down) I missed it.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  319. “Or perhaps it was not a national problem, but an excuse to foment discord and distrust among Americans.”

    Since it may not have been obvious to a few, ^^^^^^^ is my opinion on that issue. I believe same about claims of racism being endemic in the Republican Party.

    Which encapsulates the GOP’s problem.

    Obama and Holder were voicing attitudes and opinions that are widespread among blacks.

    You might have asked “why do blacks think that way? what needs to be done so that they understand that what they think about this is actually false, and the truth is very different?”

    Instead you just call it racebaiting and act as if it justifies ignoring what blacks think on the matter.
    Which itself makes it easier to allege racism is endemic in the GOP.

    Kishnevi (1d9ed3)

  320. Calling millions of Americans racist is ok here

    The words stuff it gets you banned?

    Got it, go ahead ban me

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  321. I was not aware of genocide occurring to native Americans in the present tense.

    In SJW dialect the high rates of poverty, alcoholism, addiction, suicide, and lower life expectancy in general, that are found in many Native American communities, are “genocide”

    Kishnevi (1d9ed3)

  322. Got it, go ahead ban me

    Oh, I’m sorry: I thought you were dramatically announcing that you no longer intended to read this blog or comment here, seeing as how we seem to vex your sensibilities so much.

    You are accusing me of having dumped on the kids because I expressed some mild disappointment in their actions while acknowledging that I would have certainly behaved in the same manner. You also say that the commenters here are accusing the GOP of being a bunch of racists. If that’s how you insist upon reading my posts and these comments then that’s fine with me, but don’t expect me to make any effort to engage with your contributions here any longer.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  323. You say it was deliberate, and that I compound my crime by adding weasel language.

    Sorry bro but you could not be more wrong. I know you dont believe that but you are.

    Your quote cut out my meaning and turned what I said 180 degrees backwards. When I mentioned specifically what the issue was, you pretend to think we were talking about something completely different, in a silly evasion.

    If you think people can be ‘destroyed’ by comments such as mine

    Once again, you have attempted to distort what I said to convey that I meant the opposite of what I actually. I said I am not upset or harmed in any way by what you said. I made this abundantly clear over and over, and it is not possible you think I said you destroyed anything other than the potential for a better conversation. You are mischaracterizing what I said.

    This is three times now that you are deliberately lying about what I am saying. Bro.

    As to your more controversial statement, did you answer if you believed that? I didn’t see anything.

    But I explained myself on that unrelated topic for hours, in numerous comments. How could you claim not to know this if you made a good faith effort to read my views?

    I skipped over many of your comments earlier

    Weasel language. You are giving yourself an out. It takes about 5 seconds to do a search for my name in the thread if you wish to read those comments. Stop changing the subject from your behavior.

    After all that squirming and lying, you have not yet addressed your obviously dishonest comment that I have now quoted twice, where you nakedly cut up what I actually said and then condemned me for a point of view I obviously did not hold.

    Admit what you said was untrue, several times now. It’s one thing to criticize my view, but stop being a troll and flipping what I say backwards over and over again, and pretending we’re talking about something unrelated.

    Here are the rules of the blog:

    DO NOT MISCHARACTERIZE OTHER PEOPLE’S POSITIONS. Also, do not mischaracterize other people’s positions. One more thing: do not mischaracterize other people’s positions.

    Few things are more corrosive to honest discussion than constantly having to say: “That’s not what I said. Nope, that’s not what I said either. Nope, you’re still misrepresenting what I said.”

    Three times now, that I have specifically and patiently explained to you, you mischaracterized my position. It’s a predictable and deliberate pattern. There is no question about what you’re doing. You did not do it on accident.

    I was raising a controversial point of view. Having to correct you over and over, as you deliberately distort my view, makes it that much more difficult to have a conversation about it. Knock it off and admit your mistake. Walk tall, as you keep telling others to do.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  324. > I was referencing giving one Democrat politician the benefit of the doubt

    I’m a liberal who has been commenting here for almost sixteen years. I’m not aware of *any* Democratic politician being consistently given the benefit of the doubt in that time, either by the proprieters or by the other regular commenters.

    Which Democratic polician do you allege is being given the benefit of the doubt?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  325. The Native American gentleman’s DD-214 does not include any Vietnam Service Medals, which everybody who served the Vietnam War got, so he cannot properly be called a Vietnam Vet.

    Monica M Hamm (3a6716)

  326. “Or perhaps it was not a national problem, but an excuse to foment discord and distrust among Americans.”

    Since it may not have been obvious to a few, ^^^^^^^ is my opinion on that issue. I believe same about claims of racism being endemic in the Republican Party.

    Which encapsulates the GOP’s problem.

    Obama and Holder were voicing attitudes and opinions that are widespread among blacks.

    You might have asked “why do blacks think that way? what needs to be done so that they understand that what they think about this is actually false, and the truth is very different?”

    Instead you just call it racebaiting and act as if it justifies ignoring what blacks think on the matter.
    Which itself makes it easier to allege racism is endemic in the GOP.

    Kishnevi (1d9ed3) — 1/24/2019 @ 1:58 pm

    I appreciate that you have conveyed this so clearly. I wish I had done as well. This is the point I was trying to make.

    When it comes to police interactions, the very perception or misperception is its own reality that needs to be addressed, just to have a safe community. It’s not enough to just ignore the situation. But the same applies to the GOP. Ignoring this perception is bad politics. Or maybe it’s good politics, if you’re courting the people who support David Duke, with a xenophobia campaign.

    Calling millions of Americans racist is ok here

    The words stuff it gets you banned?

    Got it, go ahead ban me

    Mr Pink (07a1b4) — 1/24/2019 @ 2:01 pm

    I wonder if racism is an evolved psychological trait. Most people see it with relevance to their own race. Have you ever been frustrated when someone says it’s impossible for a black person to be racist against a white person? I recall nodding my head at the first Affirmative Action bake sale I came across.

    The republican party supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964. At some point, around that time, things really got sideways. I’m not trying to troll GOP fans to ask about how to get back on track. And I’m not tilting at a windmill to suggest the GOP can do it. Of course, I have expressed some very strong views criticizing Trump that aren’t compatible with the effort I am encouraging. No easy answers there.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  327. I give up, but you’re still wrong.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  328. In addition, Nathan Phillips enlisted into the Marines in 1972. Marine Combat duty in Vietnam ended in 1971. So again, he isn’t a Vietnam Vet.

    Monica M Hamm (3a6716)

  329. Several Never Trumpers at NRO (you know who) initially jumped on the students. Their instinct in this and previous occasions is to side with the Left.

    DN (ebc982)

  330. I’m a liberal who has been commenting here for almost sixteen years. I’m not aware of *any* Democratic politician being consistently given the benefit of the doubt in that time, either by the proprieters or by the other regular commenters.

    Which Democratic polician do you allege is being given the benefit of the doubt?

    aphrael (e0cdc9) — 1/24/2019 @ 2:26 pm

    He referenced the “good man” meme, which was a big drama where Patterico have Obama the benefit of the doubt, when the GOP lost in 2008. I think it was wildly misinterpreted. Patterico was talking about raising his child in a context where we give someone the benefit of the doubt, and instead of starting from a position of hoping he falls on his face, giving him a chance.

    Obama really was a golden opportunity, from his 2004 speech on, to do some healing, and it is really unfortunate that he took a different path, but in context of all these fears that he’s a secret muslim from Kenya, wouldn’t a person point out that he’s actually a family man, and we hope he does a good job?

    Every mistake Obama made seemed to come with a rebuke “see, he’s not so good, I told ya so.” I think that missed the point.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  331. I give up, but you’re still wrong.

    harkin (e6b10c) — 1/24/2019 @ 2:38 pm

    No.

    The rules of the blog are clear. You need to admit you mischaracterized my views three times. Stop weaseling out.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  332. I said I selectively quoted you. I told you why. I quoted paragraphs I found offensive.

    You said it was deliberate.

    You are still wrong.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  333. I said I selectively quoted you. I told you why. I quoted paragraphs I found offensive.

    You said it was deliberate.

    You are still wrong.

    harkin (e6b10c) — 1/24/2019 @ 2:55 pm

    You actually cut out the point of my comment, and then accused me of holding the exact opposite view. You deliberately mischaracterized my position. It’s just not possible that you didn’t.

    Then you claimed I had expressed a view about cops that Haiku had actually expressed. You used “if” as a weasel word, but it was clear enough what you were doing.

    Then you claimed I said your comments “destroyed” me, when I actually said the exact opposite thing.

    All the while you have deflected and changed the subject, and now you stand on this sliver of doubt you feel entitled to, that I cannot prove you mischaracterized my views three times “deliberately.”

    But you mischaracterized what I said, conveying the opposite of what I said, and you did so repeatedly, and you aren’t admitting it. And at this point, you’re refusing to be honest about that, so it’s deliberate.

    Own up and apologize. As you like saying, “Walk Tall.”

    Dustin (6d7686)

  334. How about a Trump Clock?

    mg (8cbc69)

  335. I see mittens voted accordingly.

    mg (8cbc69)

  336. I see mittens voted accordingly.

    mg (8cbc69) — 1/24/2019 @ 3:00 pm

    He is so lame. People say Obama is the reason we got Trump, but so is Romney.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  337. Darn straight, Dustin.

    mg (8cbc69)

  338. some data hacks are not equal, well Qatar has priveleges,

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/24/elliott-broidy-republican-fundraiser-hacked-emails-1124067

    narciso (d1f714)

  339. “Then you claimed I said your comments “destroyed” me, which is the opposite of what I said.

    Um – not really.

    Here is what I said:

    “If you think people can be “destroyed” by comments such as mine, I’d hate to think what you’d say if you received 1/50th the treatment experienced by people in MAGA hats or smiling at Native Americans pounding a drum in their face ”

    Here is what you said and which I was responding to:

    “I don’t see politics blogs as wars among commenters to destroy each other with dumb strategies like this.”

    Sorry bro but you’re committing the same fouls you accuse me of. The only difference is I’m not a mind reader so I can’t tell if it was deliberate. That’s called giving the benefit of the doubt……I think there’s a lesson there somewhere.

    With that being said, your anger seems to be getting the best of you. Any further discussion with you on this will be as tedious to me as I’m sure it is to most of this board.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  340. Harkin, I’m not angry at all, as I’ve explained many times. But the rules of the blog are crystal clear.

    You have mischaracterized my views three times. You are refusing to directly address the primary complaint:

    Here’s what I actually said:

    Just to be clear, I feel sorry for the kid. He did a stupid thing, and time will not be forgiving. he thought his mob was funny, but that doesn’t mean I think the mob gunning for his future is funny. It’s a shame people can’t learn from mistakes like this with lower stakes.

    Google “racist kid” and he’s at the top. I mean, yeah of course he is as the most famous racist kid in the country, with tens of millions agreeing, and only a fringe defending his conduct.

    It’s hard for me to respond to the stuff directed at me in this thread because that’s boring. Same few people seem to always want to make it about the commenters and not the issues, and I guess we come to these blogs for different reasons.

    Dustin (6d7686) — 1/20/2019 @ 3:15 pm

    The meaning of this comment is clear.

    Here is how you distorted it:

    You responded by cutting out everything in the comment except the google result part, the negative consequence that I was using as an example of the problem. And I quote:

    “Google “racist kid” and he’s at the top. I mean, yeah of course he is as the most famous racist kid in the country, with tens of millions agreeing, and only a fringe defending his conduct.“

    Are you actually proud of this statement and the fact a smear became googleized conventional wisdom?

    And “tens of millions agreeing” to a complete falsehood is a good description of the leftosphere.

    Walk tall.

    harkin (e6b10c) — 1/20/2019 @ 9:11 pm

    The rules of the blog are crystal clear, and I linked them for you. Retract and apologize for distorting my comments three times. Your previous defense, that I cannot prove your mischaracterizations were deliberate, amounts to admitting your comments did indeed mischaracterize my view.

    As for my point that I have no ill will or anger towards you, and that your effort to lie or destroy Trump critics is misguided, your effort to twist that around is tedious. The few Trump fans who consistently attack Trump critics on this blog, hoping to push them away from talking, wouldn’t have to employ distortions if there wasn’t common ground. But it’s not appealing to you to admit I was right to criticize the mob mentality.

    Any further discussion with you on this will be as tedious to me as I’m sure it is to most of this board.

    Patterico made the rules pretty clear. If you find the rules tedious you should email Patterico to explain why you feel that way. Until then, retract and apologize.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  341. How is Romney’s position on this different from Manchin’s? It seems like he’s saying “vote to end the shutdown, as long as the details aren’t completely unreasonable, I don’t give a hoot.”

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  342. Flip it around.

    I’m the dishonest one
    harkin (e6b10c) — 1/24/2019 @ 12:06 pm

    This is an accurate quote from a comment in this thread, but it’s cut from context, and you were being sarcastic. Granted, you are apparently dishonest, but you didn’t mean that. I could pretend I didn’t understand you, but as I know how to read properly, and have a responsibility to understand the comments I am discussing before I cut them up and pretend they meant the opposite, the distortion would be obvious and deliberate.

    If I posted this, you would be justified to ask me to retract and apologize. Those are the rules. If I found a million weasel rules, including that I didn’t do it deliberately, and it’s just what I read and I post what offends me without really thinking about whether it’s an honest description of a party’s point of view, I would be a weasel with poor character.

    On the other hand, if I were to retract that comment, and apologize for mischaracterizing your views, I would display good faith, and the mistake above wouldn’t seem like a character problem. By refusing to discuss this fairly and simply (or in your case, at all), and consistently saying the matter is closed, you are making a point about who you are.

    And you didn’t even need to lie in that thread! What I had already said what controversial enough, and almost everyone disagreed with me, some very strongly and angrily. You could have ‘won’ the debate simply by focusing on my truthful opinion. But sometimes, people lie even if telling the truth is easier. They realize that’s the better troll. Indeed, I am going to keep talking about this until you’re moderated or you retract and apologize.

    Ask around. I have staying power when I want to.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  343. Sorry bro but I should have ignored you.

    As soon as you claimed my intentions were false and that I lied you lost me. I explained and for that I was called a weasel.

    I guess you think this is more of same so good night.

    harkin (e6b10c)

  344. Dustin, You’ve pretty much repeatedly claimed millions of my countrymen are racist monsters. Sorry if I take offence to that and also notice that you only do that to the mainly the political party (I assume) you don’t vote for.

    Btw I do share a hearty gd damn chuckle every time you keep pointing out that misrepresenting your opinion is a bannable offense here yet keep maliciously slandering Trump and a lot of his supporters as xenophobic bigots for wanting a stronger border. If you can’t tell I sincerely wish you to GFY

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  345. aphrael (3f0569) — 1/23/2019 @ 9:15 pm

    Redlining was an unjust behavior *by the government* which harmed people still living today.

    redlining didn’t do all that much.

    They were really harmed by de-policing and a lack of law enforcement, often (at the start) caused by corruption.

    Everything else stems from the lack of law enforcement, stating oin the 1930s. It continues very much till thsi day.A crime taking place in a amajoroty black area is not treated as seriously as something taking place somewhere else – and if there is a majority black urban area with mostly blakc officials, it often is still true. The schools are also allowed to deteriorate. There is little or no mass media coverage of what goes on.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  346. Hi, Mr. Pink:

    up above you instructed me to go back to calling Republicans racist, which clearly implies this is something you think I’m doing. Can you please point me at the comment where you believe me to have done that?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  347. How can you tards not see how illogical this is:

    1) I wish we could all come together, NOT IMPLY WE HAVE HORRIBLE INTENTIONS OR ARE BAD PEOPLE, be respectful, and have reasonable discussions instead of being partisan ideologues.

    2) Trump supporters contain a huge percentage of white nationalists; large amounts of people driven by bigotry and xenophobia; and outright racisists (who will lie about it when asked!!!! we will keep asserting it even tho they won’t admit it). Also I can read Donald Trump’s mind and he’s an evil racist blah blah

    Do you people have one moment of introspection?

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  348. Dustin, You’ve pretty much repeatedly claimed millions of my countrymen are racist monsters. Sorry if I take offence to that and also notice that you only do that to the mainly the political party (I assume) you don’t vote for.

    Btw I do share a hearty gd damn chuckle every time you keep pointing out that misrepresenting your opinion is a bannable offense here yet keep maliciously slandering Trump and a lot of his supporters as xenophobic bigots for wanting a stronger border. If you can’t tell I sincerely wish you to GFY

    Mr Pink (07a1b4) — 1/24/2019 @ 4:10 pm

    I’m glad you have a sense of humor about it. I admit I do think millions of Americans harbor racism, and if it makes you feel better, I definitely think the problem exists on both party lines. I think I expressed this to you specifically already.

    I do not believe I have slandered Trump in any way. Can you elaborate on where I got it wrong with Trump? Remember, he’s had a long career of saying and doing things and it’s not that hard to find an example of him supporting or saying almost any conceivable thing.

    I’ve wanted a stronger border too. I am not a xenophobic bigot, and don’t think border control necessarily is. I think Trump’s campaign had a lot of xenophobia, however. My view is that we need both tall walls and wide gates. We should embrace and welcome lots of immigrants, but then insist they assimilate by following our laws, speaking our language, and also I would bar them from welfare benefits. I even believe citizenship should only be inherited, not gained from being born in our territory if parents are not citizens.

    you only do that to the mainly the political party (I assume) you don’t vote for.

    I didn’t and would never vote for Trump under any circumstances I can imagine. But I supported Ted Cruz. I admire George W Bush. I worked for two GOP presidential campaigns. I used to work for the GOP in Congress. I didn’t leave the GOP. The GOP left me. I do occasionally vote for democrats, but it’s very unusual that one appears I am able to support.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  349. By the way, though Mr. Pink says ‘mean’ stuff, there’s a lot more dignity in how direct he’s being than in how Harkin twists and distorts.

    you keep pointing out that misrepresenting your opinion is a bannable offense here

    The rule is that if someone says you are mischaracterizing their position, you need to either back up what you’re saying, or retract and apologize. It’s just basic common sense respect, in my opinion. But I didn’t make the rules. I had a blog for all of ten minutes and wound up banning the whole comment section because it’s too much damn work, so I get that the moderators don’t have the energy to deal with it. But I do in this case, and I am genuinely enjoying myself.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  350. aphrael Eh I was working and didn’t read all the comments. The ones I read annoyed me. Sorry if that didn’t apply to you. I just don’t get how people throw the word racist at someone as if that’s not like calling them baby killers or pedophiles then lecture people about their tone. I can’t figure out which one is more infuriating to me. Calling a lot of my friends and fellow citizens racists, or then having the b”lls to rant about Trumps tweets, civility, coarsening tones ect.

    Millions of people in my country aren’t racist monsters, the people I know that voted for trump aren’t racist monsters. If you think they are f u.

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  351. How can you tards not see how illogical this is:

    If you get indignant over perceived accusations of racism, you might want to avoid using a slur against special needs people.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  352. I just don’t get how people throw the word racist

    Ok let’s boil it down a bit. Do you think the KKK guys who endorsed Trump were racists?

    KKK newspaper The Crusader titled the endorsement:

    “Make America Great Again”

    “We are living among people who have been disconnected from the spirit, values, morals and faiths of our forefathers. America was great not because of what our forefathers did – but because of who our forefathers were. America was founded as a White Christian Republic.”

    So I think I’m on solid ground to say there’s something in the Trump and MAGA concepts that appeals to racism.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  353. Dustin you are misrepresenting why people want a wall, support trump, and adding in to that just throwing out that crap tons of people you haven’t met are racists.

    Go back and Replace racist in every one of your comments with rapist and see how it flies.

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  354. Rapists supported Obama, hence that means he apples to rapists!!

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  355. There are few – if any – other words used to characterize individuals or groups of people that can result in worse consequences than the word “racist”. Those who choose to use it had better think long and very hard about their actions before taking them. Ruining someone’s life, causing them to become a social outcast or unemployable is a huge step and may also have severe consequences for the individual taking that step.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  356. Dustin you are misrepresenting why people want a wall, support trump, and adding in to that just throwing out that crap tons of people you haven’t met are racists.

    Go back and Replace racist in every one of your comments with rapist and see how it flies.

    Mr Pink (07a1b4) — 1/24/2019 @ 4:34 pm

    I want a wall, Mr. Pink. But did you notice something about that wall? The GOP and Trump didn’t get the job done from 2017-2018. They had two full years and didn’t do it. They had to realize that a controversial president (didn’t even win the popular vote) would lose some of the house in the midterms. We all know that. So why did they wait? Why the brinksmanship now?

    It’s as though the GOP chooses to fight for things they can’t win, and when they can win, they forget to fight until later and later.

    Trump promised us he would repeal Obamacare, and get us a wall. I would like him to keep his promises, and he had every opportunity to do so, but broke the promise. He has the issue. It’s a good issue for him, if you think, cynically, as I do, that he uses immigration to stir up fear and get more support.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  357. There are few – if any – other words used to characterize individuals or groups of people that can result in worse consequences than the word “racist”.

    Oh no.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  358. And let’s stop the personal attacks.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  359. Who the hell was it that was talking about an epidemic of racist cops upthread? Oh yeah, Haiku but he didn’t mean it. Who was it that said “There are few – if any – other words used to characterize individuals or groups of people that can result in worse consequences than the word “racist”.” Oh yeah, same fella said that. that’s weird. He’s saying a lot of things!

    Dustin (6d7686)

  360. And remove all burrs under saddles.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  361. “So I think I’m on solid ground to say there’s something in the Trump and MAGA concepts that appeals to racism.”
    Dustin (6d7686) — 1/24/2019 @ 4:32 pm

    Do you think Richard Spencer is racist? Yep, so do I.

    So I think I’m on solid ground to say there’s something in Depeche Mode’s music that appeals to racism.

    And, anyone who listens to them or wears a Depeche Mode t-shirt is probably a racist.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/richard-spencer-depeche-mode-official-band-of-the-alt-right-response-donald-trump-a7596886.html

    Munroe (8f2074)

  362. The Dems now are offering $5.7 billion for things otehr than a wall.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  363. I followed that post – within a minute – with another that made plain where I came down on it. What’s the deal here, Dustin? I’ve been working, what has set you off again, I must have missed it.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb)

  364. What Trump supporters are racists? I want names not this mealy mouthed crap. The racists I’ve met in my life are OPEN about it. They loudly say so. name these people you claim to meet, or is it all “well I know so cause I saw it somewhere”

    Mr Pink (07a1b4)

  365. I followed that post – within a minute – with another that made plain where I came down on it. What’s the deal here, Dustin? I’ve been working, what has set you off again, I must have missed it.

    Colonel Haiku (9d2fbb) — 1/24/2019 @ 4:45 pm

    I was trying to be funny. My apologies if that didn’t come across well enough. I hope you had a great day at work.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  366. What Trump supporters are racists? I want names not this mealy mouthed crap. The racists I’ve met in my life are OPEN about it. They loudly say so. name these people you claim to meet, or is it all “well I know so cause I saw it somewhere”

    Mr Pink (07a1b4) — 1/24/2019 @ 4:46 pm

    I am unclear on what you’re asking for. I did point out that the KKK endorsed Donald Trump in their article, which I quoted briefly, titled “Making America Great Again.”

    I think it’s fair to say that to them, making America great again has something to do with white power. They explain this clearly. Do you acknowledge that those guys are racists, and to them, MAGA is intended to be racist?

    Dustin (6d7686)

  367. “I am going to keep talking about this until you’re moderated or you retract and apologize.”
    Dustin (6d7686) — 1/24/2019 @ 3:55 pm

    After you secure that apology from harkin, you should definitely go for an apology from Nicholas Sandmann for triggering you with his MAGA hat.

    Munroe (97810f)

  368. Munroe, I’m not concerned about that at all. Kids do dumb stuff all the time. I’d rather talk about more important issues. You appear to want to talk about me. In fact, almost all of your comments are obsessed with me. That’s kinda funny.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  369. So you base your entire trump appeals to racism argument on a one article KKK endorsement? Did you apply that same logic to Obama? He was endorsed by tons of racists I can list by name not generic terms. Father Pflegler or whatever, Rev Wright, all of Farrakhan’s nuthob following,

    How many members in that KKK group? 500? 1000?

    Btw no way in hell you voted for Cruz. If you did you got force fed the Indian blood from temple of Doom by Hillary since

    Mr Pink (1ef483)

  370. Sonya sotomayor is a racist he put on the Supreme Court. Obama’s supporters hence are now mostly animated by racism, and bigotry.

    Mr Pink (1ef483)

  371. Yes Dustin, sorry, we should return the focus to the Sandmann kid, who did nothing — as opposed to someone who quadrupled down on a knee jerk internet mob reaction. After all, the kid is the “racist punk” who started the whole mess.

    Munroe (be001e)

  372. I guess one might compare the stunt with the tower of babel, but more grim metaphor suggests itself

    Narciso (2171ef)

  373. > Btw no way in hell you voted for Cruz

    I see no reason to doubt Dustin’s report as to how he voted. He was pretty open about supporting Cruz during the primary.

    For what it’s worth, *I* voted for Cruz in the primary and Clinton in the general. I live in California, and it looked certain that the Democratic primary would be wrapped up, so I reregistered in order to vote for the anti-Trump who was most likely to be able to deny Trump a delegate. I was wrong — in retrospect I should have voted for Kasich.

    I was open and public about that on this blog at the time I did it.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  374. So you base your entire trump appeals to racism argument on a one article KKK endorsement?

    No. That’s not what I meant. I’m trying to find some common ground with you. You demanded examples of racist trump supporters, remember? There’s an example.

    You’re welcome.

    Why do they feel Trump and MAGA supports their racist agenda? Why do blacks reject Trump overwhelmingly? I don’t think we can dismiss it, even though most Trump supporters do not overtly shout white power all day. The world isn’t so black and white, after all.

    Btw no way in hell you voted for Cruz. If you did you got force fed the Indian blood from temple of Doom by Hillary since

    First of all, I never really understand this idea that if I were a secret democrat that’s some great horrible thing. There are plenty of great people in this country who are democrats. Second, yes I did vote for Cruz. I’ve voted for him several times now. Third, I was underestimated one aspect of Trump. Based on many of his comments before the election, I had no faith that his judicial appointments would be very good. In all other areas, Trump has performed just as poorly as I thought he would, particularly foreign policy, but on judges, he was way better than Hillary. I’ll give you guys that much. I still think, in the long run, it would have been much better for America if he had lost that election.

    Yes Dustin, sorry, we should return the focus to the Sandmann kid, who did nothing — as opposed to someone who quadrupled down on a knee jerk internet mob reaction. After all, the kid is the “racist punk” who started the whole mess.

    Munroe (be001e) — 1/24/2019 @ 5:14 pm

    No apologies needed! Bless your heart! If you want to shed tears for the new victim of the right, go for it. If you want to keep obsessing over me, go for it. Like I said, it’s kinda funny.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  375. > Eh I was working and didn’t read all the comments. The ones I read annoyed me. Sorry if that didn’t apply to you.

    You might get a better reception if you were more careful who you sling insults at.

    > I just don’t get how people throw the word racist at someone as if that’s not like calling them baby killers or pedophiles

    Aha! That may be part of the problem here.

    I don’t think saying someone is acting in a racist way is equivalent to saying they are killing babies or molesting children. Calling someone “a racist” is worse than saying they’re acting in a racist way, to be sure, but I also don’t think that’s equivalent to calling them a baby killer or a pedophile.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  376. > Bless your heart!

    *laugh* is there a dialect i’m unaware of, in which that comment doesn’t require an apology? :)

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  377. “Calling someone “a racist” is worse than saying they’re acting in a racist way, to be sure, but I also don’t think that’s equivalent to calling them a baby killer or a pedophile.”

    In this day and age, I don’t think a person called a baby killer much less a pedophile would necessarily lose employment. Too many kindred spirits out there, it’s all relative.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  378. Though none of the three should be used without serious consideration.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  379. The US allows importation of child brides, so morals only extend so far.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  380. Madmen, drummers, and Indian spare change bummers
    With a teenage smirking lad
    The lefties going nuts cause they’re all a bunch of mutts
    And the kid wore a MAGA hat

    And they were …
    Raging at the Right
    Blocked up with a deuce that Ex-Lax can’t shake loose
    Raging at the Right

    nk (dbc370)

  381. At first I was thinking “Creque Alley” by the Mamas and the Papas and then I realized it was that sh*tbird Bruce Springsteen…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  382. Lol… I remember this guy doing car commercials for Ralph Williams in SoCal when I was a wee lad. They obviously gave him much more leeway in teh Bay Area… NSFW…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh3Di3LY6Ns

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  383. Let’s face it…some people are triggered by the MAGA hat. Last month the press and liberals had a meltdown over our Soldiers, Airmen and Marines standing in line to have Trump sign their MAGA hats. Of course none of the pearl clutchers dared to call them all “racist” (they saved that for high school kids) so they invented imaginary violations of the UCMJ and Hatch Act.

    Calfed (ab1180)

  384. Watched excerpts of that hard-hitting interview NBC’s Savanna Guthrie did with Mr. Nathan Phillips this morning.

    Wow, she is disgusting.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  385. What you expected something different?

    Narciso (2171ef)

  386. Deep down, no.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  387. May I point out that we here (in contrast to the outside world) are actually in agreement about all the main points of this story? That all we are arguing about is the extent to which racism can be found among Trump supporters?

    Kishnevi (fe869b)

  388. Something I wonder. Is there a proper way for white people to mourn a diminished place in the culture? A way to note it without it being racist? This is changing the subject obviously but you’ll hear some white supremacists say they aren’t racist; they merely want to keep white culture intact. I think some of these folks are just trying to figure out how to say goodbye to the past in a rapidly changing culture.

    JRH (fe281f)

  389. “May I point out that we here (in contrast to the outside world) are actually in agreement about all the main points of this story?”
    Kishnevi (fe869b) — 1/24/2019 @ 7:19 pm

    So, we all agree that Nicholas Sandmann is a “racist punk”?

    Munroe (57a73f)

  390. 403, if that dealership had been further up the peninsula, those 2 German Shepards would be Male and humping.

    urbanleftbehind (6542f3)

  391. JRH, first you have to define white culture in a way that doesn’t trigger SJW screeching, remains faithful to facts, yet doesn’t end up empty of meaning. And remember that the idea of “white” has changed a great deal since 1789, and that to those white supremacists mourning for the past, the context is inextricably linked to whites having a privileged position in society.
    I prefer the term Euro-American to refer to what a non-racist means by white culture. But even that elides the fact that a 100 years ago, the same men who revered the glory that was Greece and the grandeur that was Rome thought modern Greeks and Italians were criminal scum who needed to be kept out of our country.

    Kishnevi (fe869b)

  392. So, we all agree that Nicholas Sandmann is a “racist punk”?

    In fact, we all seem to agree that, based on that encounter, there is no reason to call him that.

    Kishnevi (fe869b)

  393. “In fact, we all seem to agree that, based on that encounter, there is no reason to call him that.”
    Kishnevi (fe869b) — 1/24/2019 @ 7:45 pm

    Then you must’ve been reading a different blog.

    Munroe (c87974)

  394. Dont you remember Jesse Jackson in 1988, or even skip gates earlier on, the answer is no.

    Narciso (2171ef)

  395. Everybody “would rather have [their] grievance”. Trump supporters maybe most of all.

    nk (dbc370)

  396. They are in good company. Don’t fear teh MAGA!!! https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidJHarrisJr/status/1088245376828592130

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  397. Late term abortionists ARE baby killers and they are celebrated by the left. Just go to NY today. Racists are abhorred by both parties (unless you’re racist towards white men). It’s clear which is worse.

    Being tarred as a racist is something that can destroy someone, as the left tried to do with the innocent kids that were the subject of this thread.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  398. “Remember when wearing a MAGA hat meant you were certain to lose an election to Hillary Clinton? Remember the days before a red baseball cap became a symbol of all evil in the universe?

    I’ve been typing words on the Internet to pay the bills for, I dunno, 12-13 years now. I spent eight of those years disapproving of a cult of personality centered in the Oval Office, and I’ve spent the past few years disapproving of the subsequent cult of personality centered in the Oval Office. I don’t like tribal groupthink, and I’m as immune to Trump’s charisma as I was to Obama’s, so in 2019 that means I have even fewer friends and admirers than usual.

    But as we head into week 2 of the MAGA Kid Saga, I’m finding common cause with my Trumpkin brothers and sisters. Whatever our differences, I’ve always agreed with them that the media is astonishingly biased and corrupt. The abject shamelessness of our moral, ethical, and intellectual betters, the self-appointed gatekeepers of the truth, has never been more apparent than it’s been over the past week.

    If you attend a march in Washington, D.C. while wearing a cheap red hat that can be purchased at any gift shop or souvenir stand in the city, there’s every chance you’ll be branded a racist for maintaining your composure while complete strangers scream at you and pound drums in your face. And even when irrefutable video evidence proves you’ve done nothing wrong, a pack of bigots with press passes will still blame you for angering them. . . . See, this is balanced journalism. Yesterday, Savannah Guthrie asked the kid who didn’t do anything — he stood stock-still and did nothing — if he thought he should apologize. Today, she asked the fraud who lied to her whether the kid who didn’t do anything should apologize. Gotta get both sides! (And I just love being lectured by Guthrie, the woman who stood by and did nothing while her co-host raped half the building.)”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/im-about-ready-to-buy-a-maga-hat-just-to-spite-these-child-hating-a-holes/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  399. ^^^ Jim Treacher^^^

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  400. The Sandman family (and others?) have ow hired a libel lawyer – the same one who was the lawyer for Richard Jewell and the brother of JonBenet Ramsey (when CBS suggested he killed his sister) as well former Rep. Gary Condit.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/42636/nicholas-sandmanns-family-makes-major-move-against-ryan-saavedra

    He’ll probably mostly try to prevent the story from spreading further as truth, and extract money from media organizations that were too slow and stubborn in not correcting the story.

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2019/01/24/nick-sandmanns-family-hires-l-lin-wood-who-has-handled-suits-against-media/2672391002/

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)


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