Patterico's Pontifications

2/25/2018

Gutsy Conservative Writer At CPAC Is Soundly Booed For Calling Out Republican Hypocrisy

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:41 am



[guest post by Dana]

Because Republicans, like Democrats, eat their own when they dare to break ranks.

Last November, when Donald Trump was close to marking his fist year as President of the United States and the public had recently learned about a credible accusation of sexual misconduct against GOP-backed candidate Roy Moore, in which he allegedly sexually assaulted a 14-year old girl decades earlier, I wrote a post that discussed the dangers of party loyalty. Specifically, the kind of party loyalty that demands we turn a blind eye to that which we readily condemn when it happens on the other side of the aisle. The kind of party loyalty that begets a moral bankruptcy resulting in there no longer being any daylight between Democrats and Republicans, thus making it impossible for either side to hold the moral high ground. Democrats have Bill Clinton, the GOP has Donald Trump:

The worst example of party loyalty is when a sexual predator’s bad behavior is brushed away, rationalized, overlooked, or worse: acknowledged as being rooted in truth, or altogether true but dismissed anyway because supporting the party trumps everything else – especially when an election is involved. And even if the opponent is as morally pure as driven snow, better to have an accused sexual predator in office than one from across the aisle.

At the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) yesterday, Mona Charen, Senior Fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, was on stage participating in the #UsToo: Left out by the Left panel discussion, and was asked about her concerns for today’s feminism. Her answer triggered audience members, and prompted a vigorous push back from those offended at Republicans being called out for their hypocrisy:

I’m actually going to twist this around a bit and say that I’m disappointed in people on our side for being hypocrites about sexual harassers and abusers of women who are in our party, who are sitting in the White House, who brag about their extramarital affairs, who brag about mistreating women. And because he happens to have a R after his name, we look the other way. We don’t complain. This is a party that was ready to endorse — the Republican party endorsed — Roy Moore for the Senate in the state of Alabama even though he was a credibly accused child molester. You cannot claim that you stand for women and put up with that.

Charen was soundly booed for her criticism of the party and calls for consistency. She was likewise booed for questioning why CPAC would invite far right French politician Marion Maréchal-Le Pen. Out of concerns for her safety, three security guards escorted Charen out of the building. This at the largest annual gathering of conservatives.

Once upon a time, it would have been a given that Charen’s observations would have been robustly supported by Republicans. But as it now stands, this is Trump’s party, and what once was is no longer. Charen herself said as much today :

What happened to me at CPAC is the perfect illustration of the collective experience of a whole swath of conservatives since Donald Trump became the Republican nominee. We built and organized this party — but now we’re made to feel like interlopers.

I was surprised that I was even asked to speak at CPAC. My views on Trump, Roy Moore and Steve Bannon are no secret. I knew the crowd would be hostile, and so I was tempted to pass.

But too many of us have given up the fight. We’ve let disgust and dismay lead us to withdraw while bad actors take control of the direction of our movement. I know how encouraged I feel whenever someone simply states the truth, and so I decided to accept CPAC’s invitation.

Like the Republican Party, CPAC has become heavily Trumpified. Last year, they invited alt-right provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos (and withdrew the invitation only after lewd tapes surfaced). This year, in addition to the president and vice president, CPAC invited Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, granddaughter of Jean-Marie Le Pen and niece of National Front leader Marine Le Pen.

While there were reasonable, mainstream Republican speakers at CPAC, the lineup also featured demagogues like Sheriff David Clarke Jr. While he oversaw the Milwaukee County jail, one pregnant prisoner was repeatedly raped, and several prisoners died in the space of just six months. One was a mentally ill man who was denied water for seven days. No matter. The sheriff was cheered by the CPAC crowd.

Charen also explained why she was compelled to speak before what she knew would be a hostile audience:

I’d been dreading it for days, but when it came, I almost welcomed it. There is nothing more freeing than telling the truth. And it must be done, again and again, by those of us who refuse to be absorbed into this brainless, sinister, clownish thing called Trumpism, by those of us who refuse to overlook the fools, frauds and fascists attempting to glide along in his slipstream into respectability.

I spoke to a hostile audience for the sake of every person who has watched this spectacle of mendacity in disbelief and misery for the past two years. Just hearing the words you know are true can serve as ballast, steadying your mind when so much seems unreal.

For traditional conservatives, the past two years have felt like a Twilight Zone episode. Politicians, activists and intellectuals have succumbed with numbing regularity, betraying every principle they once claimed to uphold. But there remains a vigorous remnant of dissenters. I hear from them. There were even some at CPAC.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

291 Responses to “Gutsy Conservative Writer At CPAC Is Soundly Booed For Calling Out Republican Hypocrisy”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (023079)

  2. As the entire govt administrative complex is shown to be a total fraud, she addresses this,

    Le pen was targeted by the state, because the enas are in deep denial

    narciso (d1f714)

  3. Yes macaroni will do some cosmetic thing, but that’s all he will do.

    narciso (d1f714)

  4. His fist year might be a Freudian slip Dana.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  5. The 130 dead at bataclan, omelet you know,

    narciso (d1f714)

  6. And good morning to you.

    I read her post at Red State, and I think the last paragraph puts some important perspective to this.

    Also note about the supposed booing of a description of a naturalization ceremony: apparently a few people booed but it was far less than the initial stories made it seem.

    Kishnevi (8c03ee)

  7. Great post and great job by Mona Charen.

    I remember when the Democrats had a monopoly on situational ethics and moral relativism. We should have kept it that way.

    Dave (445e97)

  8. It was sound and fury signifying nothing, of course Romney and Graham stuck up for Menendez over moore

    narciso (d1f714)

  9. 2… exactly, narciso. But this was her truth and her way of getting a little exposure. I used to read Mona Charen, haven’t for years, but it’s good to see her out and about.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  10. Good for her. Her kind is rare these days, and increasingly held in contempt by small-minded people lacking principle.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  11. There aren’t many out there in the commentariat who will address the real problem: the failures of “the elite”, the lawlessness of the administrative state and the upper echelon of our nation’s law enforcement agencies.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  12. There aren’t many out there in the commentariat who will address the real problem: the failures of “the elite”, the lawlessness of the administrative state and the upper echelon of our nation’s law enforcement agencies.

    Putting a despicable reality-TV game-show host in charge was clearly the answer.

    Dave (445e97)

  13. Including you, haiku. Do you have original thoughts? Curious..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  14. Moaning Mona the never trumpets new hottie

    mg (9e54f8)

  15. What’s matters evidence, should we revisit Karen McDougal whose diary appeared in 2016, nudge nudge

    narciso (d1f714)

  16. Bush Gang to the Hague?

    Goose/Gander..let’s roust Ollie North.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  17. It’s what is considered acceptable speech, by our betters it doesn’t address any real concerns much like the grishenko snipehunt

    narciso (d1f714)


  18. Putting a despicable reality-TV game-show host in charge was clearly the answer.


    No. It would have been much wiser to put a wholly corrupt kleptocrat with a track record of shifty deals, broken promises and dead bodies behind her who has spent her entire adult life perfecting her very own place in “the elite”, the lawless administrative state and the upper echelon of our nation’s law enforcement agencies. That would have been soooo much better since it would be a smooth transition of power from one corrupt commie to another.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  19. beenburned… on the streets of Oxyphonia, trying to sell teh weakest excremental garbage, but not finding any willing buyers.

    Sad.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. You’re a weak sister haiku.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  21. Better for all that Hillary Clinton be left to drink her remaining years away, pondering what might have been, but never will…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  22. Unfortunately Obama succeeded much more than we feared, his legacy was seen at stoneman Douglas among other places.

    narciso (d1f714)

  23. 0bama’s Reign of Error…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  24. And at va’s from Chicago to Milwaukee to Tucson, but the if overthere is so agitate over shulkin

    narciso (d1f714)

  25. This:

    Schlapp defended his guests and complained that critics are focusing on the “2 percent” of disruption at the conference instead of the “98 percent” of speeches, panels and workshops that went off without a hitch. Even if that ratio is warped, his point is fair: With scores of events spread across three days, this year’s CPAC was on the whole a quiet, nonconfrontational affair. Schlapp also argued that the old internecine disputes over Trump are settled. “This idea that the Republican Party is somehow split, or the conservative movement is somehow split about Trump, it’s just not an accurate portrayal,” he said. Indeed, more than 9 of 10 attendees at this year’s CPAC approve of the president’s job performance, according to straw poll results.

    That monolith is what made Charen’s remarks so unpopular—and what compelled some worried soul to assign her a security detail. It’s a dizzying bit of irony: There are indeed still plenty of prominent conservatives who object to Trump, yet they are unwelcome at an event they once dominated, replaced by fringe characters whose presence is justified by the pursuit of ideological diversity.

    “There are a huge number of conservatives who feel as I do. And I just felt it was important that people at this conference hear from us, too,” Charen told me before leaving the hotel. “The conservative movement is broader than CPAC. And it still contains a tremendous number of people with principles and high standards.” She paused, then added, “There are still good people at CPAC. Very good people. But it’s important to draw a line.”

    Dana (023079)

  26. Which one is it, mindless conformity or ideological diversity,

    narciso (d1f714)

  27. Accepting Gloria allreds dirty laundry as a premise, its the same sort who though brexit was a tantrum

    narciso (d1f714)

  28. So many of them talk a good game, but when given the golden opportunity, they sit on their hands or try to change the focus in an effort to distract.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  29. Apparently a straw poll at CPAC has made the determination for the Republican Party as a whole that there is no division re Trump. Wow. That’s a lot of assumed power, and total dismissal of Charen-school-of-thought Republicans. Big tent, my ass.

    The party that champions diversity of thought (or at least, once did), now seems not to with regard to views about the president. Let’s boo a a speaker that voices dissent (which was once patriotic or something) and doesn’t toe the party line. Big tent again…

    Dana (023079)

  30. Just like we were supposed to be mittens wee the kittens about five years in a row,

    ‘Speaking truth to power’ means you denounce your own party even more readily than the democrats, Ernest lafever isn’t around to see this

    narciso (d1f714)

  31. No. It would have been much wiser to put a wholly corrupt kleptocrat with a track record of shifty deals, broken promises and dead bodies behind her who has spent her entire adult life perfecting her very own place in “the elite”, the lawless administrative state and the upper echelon of our nation’s law enforcement agencies.

    You do realize that, other than the dead bodies, that’s a pretty good description of Trump?

    Trump represents authoritarian nativism. Hillary represented authoritarian multiculturalism. Neither is a friend to real liberty.

    Kishnevi (8c03ee)

  32. Deputy Dawg Israel:

    What I’m asking the law makers to give police all over this country is more power.

    Yup! That’ll do ‘er.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  33. Good for her. Her kind is rare these days, and increasingly held in contempt by small-minded people lacking principle.

    Yeah, the rock steady principles of a Bush, McCain or Romney is exactly what we’re lacking.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  34. Evidence what need of evidence, I would have preferred fillon but hewaant acceptable to the enarques either, only this croissant would do.

    narciso (d1f714)

  35. We built and organized this party — but now we’re made to feel like interlopers.

    A “we built and organized this party” mindset is a sure sign of someone who’s down with the people.

    The rest of us have been “interlopers” for oh, I dunno, 20+ years. We held our noses and voted for whatever milquetoast her party put forth anyway. Now, when the shoe is on the other foot, she and others can’t bring themselves down to do likewise. What arrogance.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  36. Dana wrote,

    But as it now stands, this is Trump’s party, and what once was is no longer.

    He’s the titular head of the party, of course, and its single most powerful elected official. But I nevertheless think this statement is untrue in important respects. The national party organization and the DC crowd don’t comprise the entirety of the GOP, or its majority, or anything remotely like its ultimate power base, which continues to reside at the state and even lower levels — the people who go year-in and year-out to those district and state conventions, and who ultimately are heard through their state primaries. Some of those folks are indeed thorough-going Trumpkins, but a very large percentage of them retain serious reservations, while nevertheless wishing Trump well in attempting to pursue a conservative agenda.

    Moreover, and ultimately more important: This is still a cult of personality, not of principle. However many miles wide it is, it’s millimeters deep and will evaporate the day he’s no longer in the WH for whatever reason, whenever that turns out to be.

    I was a Republican decades before Trump, and I expect to be a Republican when he’s dust. I don’t buy into the “it was a binary choice” guilt-trip that Trumpkins want to lay on me for not voting for him, but I do buy in, over the long term, to the realization that in a two-party system, if you want to have any effect at all, you must work within one of those two parties. People who’ve declared themselves disgusted with the GOP, who’ve renounced it and declared themselves not a part of it, because they’re focused just on this one temporary (and old) cult-like leader, are in my humble opinion making a serious mistake. I wish our host and others similarly situated would rethink their position, and that requires a longer-term viewpoint than to simply say, “This is Trump’s party.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  37. Y’all are paying attention to the favorite fireworks.

    In the first incident, a perpetrator used a software tool to create two fake tweets that looked like they came from the account of Alex Harris, a Herald reporter preparing tributes to the slain students. One fake tweet asked for photos of dead bodies at the school and another asked if the shooter was white.

    The reporter almost immediately began getting angry messages.

    “It was hampering our ability to cover this terrible tragedy in our own backyard because we’re having to deal with the backlash,” said Aminda Marques, executive editor of The Herald.

    In a second incident, someone again used a software tool to create a phony Miami Herald story — in the high tension following the Parkland shooting — saying that a Miami-Dade middle school faced threats of “potentially catastrophic events” on upcoming dates, indicating that a new mass shooting was in the offing.

    Screenshots of that fake story were passed along on Twitter and Snapchat, two social media platforms, said Monique O. Madan, a Herald reporter whose byline appeared on the fake story.

    IT LOOKS SUPER REAL. THEY USE THE SAME FONT THAT WE USE. IT HAS OUR MASTHEAD.

    Monique O. Madan, Miami Herald reporter

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article201938144.html

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  38. 36 doesn’t get the perception is everything

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  39. I have plenty of policy complaints about this administration,
    But not these kerfluffles, fishwrap complaining about preferring fake news

    narciso (d1f714)

  40. Sure would like to hear someone recognize the cyber threat. Anyone..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  41. The two-party system is not as predictable as you might think. Yesterday Democrat power brokers in California gave the bird to Sen. Feinstein. Will it impact the outcome?

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  42. To complete a thought, from #36: The reason I think it’s a mistake for those like our host to disassociate themselves from the GOP is that they forfeit the goodwill and the access that anyone who’s self-identifying as working within either party naturally receives from others who likewise self-identify. Instead, for every long-time Republican reading this blog who still retains principles that make them doubt Trump and wish someone else were in his place, this blog and every argument expressed within it now has an extra hurdle to overcome in terms of presumptive credibility, because you’re lecturing those within the Party from the self-insistent perspective of an outsider.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  43. Yes she’s not raving loony enough for them, if you can believe that.

    narciso (d1f714)

  44. I did my own informal survey at PAC eight years ago, very few were for romnsy, who would soon remove all doubt,

    narciso (d1f714)

  45. And finally (apologies for the string-comment), to complete a thought from #43: Because I so often agree with the observations and arguments of our host, I hate for those insightful observations and persuasive arguments to get less traction than they would deserve on their own merits when considered by those who still self-identify as Republicans, simply because he’s so insistent that he isn’t one.

    Obviously, I hope: While I wish he’d reconsider, I respect his and everyone’s right to make such decisions for themselves (regardless of my preferences and advice).

    Beldar (fa637a)

  46. If the republicans had been more competent in attracting votes in the usual fashion–see GOPe and RINO for the reason they weren’t–a human wrecking ball wouldn’t have been the only possibility. I would have favored a Cruz/Fiorina ticket, but convincing a sufficient number of voters that doing things the usual way would fix what has happened as a result of doing things the usual way wasn’t going to work.
    Roy Moore may or may not have groped an underage woman forty years ago. Whether that was actually true is pretty shaky but, he being a republican, he was naturally guilty.
    I think the underlying issue is that the electorate has, in large part, come to play by the democrat rules. Or the Clinton rules. Or the Studds rules. Or the Kennedy rules. This is another issue.

    Richard Aubrey (10ef71)

  47. If I remember correctly, Mona wasnt sanguine about tea patty either, so that makes ten years of miscues.

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. Tea/Birfers were original Jokers who just want to burn, not rebuild.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  49. FrankenFeinstein barely escaped Moscone/Milk and learned nada

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  50. It doesn’t really matter in California, they are purging the last elements like hunter, the most prominent candidate s the grandson of a black September op

    narciso (d1f714)

  51. Those who fail to learn/adapt must be purged.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  52. Great post, Dana.

    Nothing reflects the drift of the country to the left, the degeneration of the word “conservative”, and the degeneration of our society in general, more than the election of Trump as the GOP nominee. Nothing!

    And you know what else? I will not be able to hide my schadenfreude when he signs the law confiscating the favorite guns of all the people who voted for him. (I just had to put that in there.)

    nk (dbc370)

  53. CPAC to Mona: thanks for Charen; boo.

    Elephants have long memories so keep in mind she’s on the outs as a ‘Never-Trumper’ in opinion-spin and opposed his nomination from the start in NR along w/others:

    Conservatives against Trump

    MONA CHAREN

    In December, Public Policy Polling found that 36 percent of Republican voters for whom choosing the candidate “most conservative on the issues” was the top priority said they supported Donald Trump. We can talk about whether he is a boor (“My fingers are long and beautiful, as, it has been well documented, are various other parts of my body”), a creep (“If Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her”), or a louse (he tried to bully an elderly woman, Vera Coking, out of her house in Atlantic City because it stood on a spot he wanted to use as a garage). But one thing about which there can be no debate is that Trump is no conservative — he’s simply playing one in the primaries. Call it unreality TV.

    Put aside for a moment Trump’s countless past departures from conservative principle on defense, racial quotas, abortion, taxes, single-payer health care, and immigration. (That’s right: In 2012, he derided Mitt Romney for being too aggressive on the question, and he’s made extensive use of illegal-immigrant labor in his serially bankrupt businesses.) The man has demonstrated an emotional immaturity bordering on personality disorder, and it ought to disqualify him from being a mayor, to say nothing of a commander-in-chief.

    Trump has made a career out of egotism, while conservatism implies a certain modesty about government. The two cannot mix.

    Who, except a pitifully insecure person, needs constantly to insult and belittle others, including, or perhaps especially, women? Where is the center of gravity in a man who in May denounces those who “needlessly provoke” Muslims and in December proposes that we (“temporarily”) close our borders to all non-resident Muslims? If you don’t like a Trump position, you need only wait a few months, or sometimes days. In September, he advised that we “let Russia fight ISIS.” In November, after the Paris massacre, he discovered that “we’re going to have to knock them out and knock them out hard.” A pinball is more predictable.

    Is Trump a liberal? Who knows? He played one for decades — donating to liberal causes and politicians (including Al Sharpton) and inviting Hillary Clinton to his (third) wedding. Maybe it was all a game, but voters who care about conservative ideas and principles must ask whether his recent impersonation of a conservative is just another role he’s playing. When a con man swindles you, you can sue — as many embittered former Trump associates who thought themselves ill used have done. When you elect a con man, there’s no recourse.

    — Mona Charen is a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/01//donald-trump-conservatives-oppose-nomination

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. I could quibble about the credibility of the accusations against Roy Moore but it would be totally besides the point of Ms. Charen’s basic truths.

    nk (dbc370)

  55. You live in kodosville, where guns have been illegal for 36 years.

    narciso (d1f714)

  56. McDonald vs. City of Chicago. The only “guns” that are illegal in Chicago now are laser dot sights on concealed carry pistols.

    nk (dbc370)

  57. Re Roy Moore: The hypocrisy that I would have called out, had I the opportunity to speak at C-PAC, was in supporting for any GOP nomination a candidate who not once, but twice, had deliberately and very publicly defied the Rule of Law while occupying a position of public trust at the top of his state’s judicial branch, and encouraged his fellow citizens to join him in that defiance. Each time he took the oath to be the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, he swore to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States along with the Alabama constitution; and each time, he so spectacularly and intentionally violated that oath that he was removed from that office in disgrace.

    Argue about whether he’s merely creepy or an outright sexual predator all you want. There is no doubt that he’s a serial oath-breaker who cannot possibly be trusted in any public office ever again.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  58. This is still a cult of personality, not of principle.

    No. It’s a cult of winning, not navel gazing.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  59. One of the ways LBJ was smarter than Teddy Roosevelt was in understanding that being the leader of the rump convention has only ever really worked one time, in 1860, in circumstances we’d best hope not to repeat.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  60. The only people winning are Trump’s super-rich friends.

    nk (dbc370)

  61. @52.

    “There are a huge number of conservatives who feel as I do. And I just felt it was important that people at this conference hear from us, too,” Charen told me before leaving the hotel. “The conservative movement is broader than CPAC. And it still contains a tremendous number of people with principles and high standards.” She paused, then added, “There are still good people at CPAC. Very good people. But it’s important to draw a line.”

    “Huge”… “tremendous number?” Poor Mona. There’s not nearly as many as the echo-chambered media she was once part of has led her to believe. Sad.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. Isn’t CPAP for schnorers?

    Oh, CPAC..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  63. nk sounding like Social Libertarian..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  64. Sigh. More bitter Nevertrumpism.

    Sad.

    NJRob (b00189)

  65. No. It’s a cult of winning, not navel gazing.

    Funny. I thought it was anal-gazing.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  66. Let’s not lose a grip on the facts. Trump endorsed Luther Strange, not Moore. Once it became Moore versus Jones, it was a choice between a morally corrupt person versus someone supporting morally corrupt policies. Good luck anointing oneself as someone sticking up for “principle” and “high standards.” How easy that is for some people.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  67. For traditional conservatives, the past two years have felt like a Twilight Zone episode.

    Poor Mona; a b&w show cancelled along w/Goldwater in 1964 that survives on retro sci-fi TV.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. It was not Dana’s post which engendered the thoughts I expressed above. Not Mona Charen, either.

    I went to church with my daughter this morning. Then I stepped out of the church and into a world where Trump is President of the United States. That’s what did it. I was thinking these things on the drive back, before I had ever read this post or known what Mona Charen had said.

    nk (dbc370)

  69. For real conservatives, the past 25 years have felt like the “To Serve Man” episode, with Charen as one of the kanamits.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  70. You don’t need to explain, no.

    It was real

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  71. ConCon LAARPers not big fans of Monaphony or Homophony

    * As Seen on CNN

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  72. I’m sick of people thinking that standing up for moral values and high standards means supporting the communist party and their baby killing, cross dressing, gun grabbing cronies instead of our guys who are crap heads but support what we support.

    By the way, nk, all those “super rich friends” you accuse Trump of all have D’s after their names and should have C’s if there was any truth in politics. Except Soros, he’d be an (N).

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  73. Charen was invited to CPAP to participate in a discussion about the shortcomings of modern feminism, but instead she selfishly insisted on delivering an insane #NeverTrump rant, complete with accusations of ‘hypocrisy’ against an audience clearly unwilling to sit silently while she hijacked the agenda, and then insulted all those who disagreed with her.

    Neither Conservatives, Republicans, or Donald Trump can reasonably be condemned for supporting the candidacy of Judge Roy Moore, a man who GOP primary voters in his home state selected to face the Democrat opponent in the general election.

    Yes, Moore’s candidacy was subsequently tainted by accusations of sexual abuse – which supposedly occured decades in the past, remained unsubstantiated, were flawed by inconsistencies, and were firmly denied by Moore.

    (Patterico rightly cautions against the dangers of excessive party loyality but fails to note that accusation is always an inadequate basis for condemnation.)

    Again, yes, Roy Moore was accused, albeit during a political campaign, but he denied the accusations, was not convicted, and he won the GOP primary election.

    Now ask yourselves, are the witch hunters among us so fervently lawless they would deny Moore had earned the opportunity to put his case to the public and be judged by the voters?)

    Charen’s rant at CPAP went on to denounce the ascendancy of ‘Trumpism’ and to complain that CPAP had invited inappropiate guests. She called Sheriff David Clark a ‘demagogue,’ and she criticized fellow invited guest, Frenchwoman Marechal-Le Pen, for her conservative political views, and to denounce the right wing politics of her family members going back to Marechal’s grandfarher.

    Charen’s batsh*t-crazy #NeverTrumper credintials are conclusively revealed by the transparent “explanation” of why she accepted CPAP’s invitation (ostensibly to participate in a discussion of problems with modern feminism). She’s incapable of passing up an opportunity to vent her #NeverTrumper spleen:

    She brazenly denounces the American voters who elected Donald Trump to lead this nation as “brainless, sinister, and clownish.” And, not yet satisfied, the overheated Charen then puts herself, and similarly unhinged fellow travelers, firmly in the company of those who refuse “to overlook the fools, frauds, and fascists attempting to glide along on (Trump’s) slipstream into respectability.”

    (It’s those damn deplorables again.)

    When an individual is so obsessed with an issue, almost any issue, they aggressively insist on inflicting their bizarre convictions on others, ad nauseam, no matter the inappropriate forum, and then rudely go on to insult the audience as ‘hypocrites’ for disagreeing – well, that individual shouldn’t expect to be invited back, nor should she be surprised when her phone calls aren’t returned.

    ropelight (c22ac8)

  74. Be!dar,

    Patterico and Mona Charen get the same measure of “good will” from today’s Republicans — none. It’s Trump’s Party now.

    DRJ (15874d)

  75. Better for all that Hillary Clinton be left to drink her remaining years away, pondering what might have been, but never will…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/25/2018 @ 9:45 am

    Reeling in the tears

    Stowing away the pounds

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  76. They are obsessed with Trump. See 74.

    DRJ (15874d)

  77. Yes, let’s purge the party of all sinners.

    Last one out turn off the lights.*

    Romans 3:23

    *just kidding, everyone knows for nevertrumpers, the crucifixion of Jesus was totally unnecessary.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  78. And before I hear any BS objections along the lines of Trump being a worse sinner than most, show me his criminal record and let’s talk.

    Cheap allegations don’t count.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  79. CPCP

    Consistent Positive Conservative Pressure

    Do you have a CCCP for me Hoagie?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  80. By the way, nk, all those “super rich friends” you accuse Trump of all have D’s after their names and should have C’s if there was any truth in politics. Except Soros, he’d be an (N).

    I don’t know that Soros is Trump’s friend, but I have no doubt that he also made a bundle from the same tax cut that netted Berkshire Hathaway $29 billion. I also have no doubt that a (D) or an (R) (what’s an N?) after a super-rich jerkoff’s name is as meaningless as the (R) after Trump’s.

    nk (dbc370)

  81. Corrupt Criminals Committing Politics

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  82. Patterico and Mona Charen get the same measure of “good will” from today’s Republicans — none.

    Yes, such a stark contrast from the past 20+ years.

    “Today’s Republicans” are the same ones who voted for every milquetoast candidate the party trotted out, and which the host and Charen viewed as “principled” apparently. Maybe we should’ve pouted the whole time.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  83. Hoagie..dude. Adaptation is not surrender.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  84. It was sarcasm, nk. Most of the “super rich” these days are democrats. Soros is a Nazi, hence (N). And a lot of people “made a bundle” from a tax cut that helped a company, Berkshire Hathaway among many others. BTW nk, since when do you believe allowing people to keep their own money with a tax cut is immorally helping your friends? Seems you joined the democrat/communist party when I wasn’t looking.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  85. I’m one of the people who always pushes back on the “Never Trump” material that gets published here because I was left with what I felt was no choice and have been pleasantly surprised by most of Trump’s actions (no, I’m not happy with more debt and have bet heavily against bonds but I did that years ago and have been wrong for a very long time).

    The booing didn’t surprise me, but it disappoints me that it didn’t surprise me. Mona Charen should be applauded for candor, not shut up the way the left tries to do to anyone it doesn’t want to hear. We need to face flaws and be able to explain why we might support a position despite the issues that Ms. Charen rightly raises. If we can’t do that our positions aren’t sound. Booing in this case is a lot like yelling in that it puts the world on notice that those doing it have no argument to use to deal with the person pointing out the problem.

    Lazlo Toth (0699ca)

  86. DIY DI BYE (adios DiFi)

    Don’t tell me what she’ll do, ’cause she won’t
    Don’t tell me to believe in her, ’cause I don’t
    They’ll take her down, grabbed by the throat, a mass rejection
    Strip flesh from bone in the killing zone
    You’re still waiting for the real election
    Come up to me with your “What did you say?”
    And I’ll tell you straight in the eye
    D.I. BYE… D.I. BYE… D.I. BYE… D.I. BYE… D.I.BYE… D.I. BYE… D.I.BYE
    Do ‘er real good Do ‘er real good Do ‘er real good

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  87. Hoagie and others can only see the Try offensive as successful. Propaganda wins again.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  88. TET offensive, ffs..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)


  89. “Today’s Republicans” are the same ones who voted for every milquetoast candidate the party trotted out


    Yep. And when they didn’t lose to some leftist socialist they implemented leftist policies like “I’ve abandoned free market principles to save the free market system” George Bush, 1/14/2013. No douchebag left behind.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  90. Your 33 1/3 record is stuck on a scratch. Hoagie.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  91. As opposed to someone who detained Richard jewell and let Eric Rudolph go free for at least two more years ultimately seven,

    narciso (d1f714)

  92. 88.Hoagie and others can only see the Try offensive as successful. Propaganda wins again.
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/25/2018 @ 12:11 pm

    89.TET offensive, ffs..
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/25/2018 @ 12:12 pm

    I have no idea what any of that means.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  93. learned about a credible accusation of sexual misconduct against GOP-backed candidate Roy Moore, in which he allegedly sexually assaulted a 14-year old girl decades earlier

    I notice the monolog is kind of thin on sourcing at this critical point in the narrative.

    No sourcing at all, just allegation asserted as fact.

    If allegations from disgruntled nilists is all it takes we all might as well give up now, and cut our throats, because the Democrats have ads on Craigslist offering thousands of dollars, looking for liars willing to spin yarns against any candidate put up.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  94. Stuck on commie infiltrators
    Hoagie.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)


  95. 91.Your 33 1/3 record is stuck on a scratch. Hoagie.
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/25/2018 @ 12:13 pm

    Then don’t listen, Ben. I’m not a communist I don’t require obedience.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  96. Charen seems to be the one obsessed, a little like the useful idiots who she chronicled from the 50s through the 90s.

    narciso (d1f714)

  97. Suit yourself hoagie. Do you enjoy being lost in past?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  98. You’re a slave to your inabilitynyo adapt hoagie.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  99. I would really bother Mona’s diatribe, although like judge napolitano’s I subsequently discussed it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  100. BTW nk, since when do you believe allowing people to keep their own money with a tax cut is immorally helping your friends?

    When did I say it was immoral? I pointed out who was “winning”.

    nk (dbc370)

  101. #86- There is a “time and place” factor in play here too. I’m sure this bint has voiced her criticisms of Trump plenty without complaint. But at a rally event?

    This is kinda like a cheerleader in the first quarter of a big game chanting how the quarterback of her team sucks and the whole school is stupid for playing him.

    She’s lucky she didn’t get paper cups thrown at her.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  102. @ DRJ (#75): “Today’s Republicans” includes me. It includes a great many other Republicans who feel about Trump as I do. Some of them are even in Congress; I see our junior U.S. Senator from Texas in that camp, which is to say, clear-eyed but trying to avoid drama and support Trump when he’s right. And in state governor’s mansions and state legislatures throughout the U.S. — locations of swelling political clout as redistricting occurs after the 2020 Census — there’s a whole ton of “today’s Republicans” who aren’t Trumpkins, aren’t beholden to him, didn’t get elected on his coattails — and haven’t bought into the cult.

    So I’m not <at all willing to cede the field to the Trump cultists; their takeover of the party is far less thorough-going than the heckler quotient at an activist convention is likely to suggest; he has no real ideology that will outlive him; and he’s a 72-year-old fat man who won’t exercise, whom every Democrat in Congress is already creaming to impeach, with a history of self-inflicted screw-ups and a special counsel going through his garbage pail.

    Within the next few months, we’ll see who shows up at GOP district and state conventions in 50+ states and provinces. Some will be new faces and in a very few places, new brooms may sweep, but I very much suspect that (unlike the C-PAC hecklers) most of the same faces will be folks who were seen in 2014 during the last mid-term elections. I suspect many of them will still be showing up when Trump’s no longer POTUS.

    I very deliberately and insistently choose to maintain a perspective broader than just today and deeper than this week’s news cycle. I confess that it is hard to maintain that perspective, and takes deliberate and continuous effort on my part, because it is just so easy to get swept up into this tawdry and melodramatic reality-TV presidency. But this too shall pass, of that I have no doubt.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  103. this too Shall pass

    You don’t pursue the aftermath which requires real thinking..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  104. And you know what else? I will not be able to hide my schadenfreude when he signs the law confiscating the favorite guns of all the people who voted for him. (I just had to put that in there.)

    nk (dbc370) — 2/25/2018 @ 11:01 am

    On that day would you mind doing a guest post about insurance fraud and recommend some good PVC stocks?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  105. beenburned continues his tick-like ways…

    You teh chigger, beenburned!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  106. @ Beldar,

    Dana wrote,

    But as it now stands, this is Trump’s party, and what once was is no longer.

    He’s the titular head of the party, of course, and its single most powerful elected official. But I nevertheless think this statement is untrue in important respects. The national party organization and the DC crowd don’t comprise the entirety of the GOP, or its majority, or anything remotely like its ultimate power base, which continues to reside at the state and even lower levels — the people who go year-in and year-out to those district and state conventions, and who ultimately are heard through their state primaries. Some of those folks are indeed thorough-going Trumpkins, but a very large percentage of them retain serious reservations, while nevertheless wishing Trump well in attempting to pursue a conservative agenda.

    Moreover, and ultimately more important: This is still a cult of personality, not of principle. However many miles wide it is, it’s millimeters deep and will evaporate the day he’s no longer in the WH for whatever reason, whenever that turns out to be.

    I object to your broad-brush labeling of my statement as being untrue.

    First, the statement’s qualifier: But as it now stands does not mean that it won’t be something else after Trump is no longer the president. You and I don’t know what it will be – maybe revert to what it once was, become something more solid and representative of conservatism, or it might remain similar to what it is now. The political pendulum is continually swinging, but slowly. So it’s hard to say because so many once strong Conservatives in the GOP compromised so much as they backtracked on level-headed criticism of him and wound up singing his praises in order to gain access to him and get him elected. This includes at the state and local levels. I’m in a decidedly left-leaning state, and yet have spoken with any number of Trump supporters who felt that any Republican was better than no Republican. Clearly they were pushing back against this state’s overwhelmingly left super-majority and the decisions they made that have adversely impacted life here. They are thrilled simply because Republican. That is also not to say that there are not those Republicans who are not Trump supporters but nonetheless hope he succeeds in whatever aspects of a conservative agenda he might pursue.

    To your second point, while yes, Trump is the ultimate example of a cult of personality winning out over solid principles, it is the American public that clamored for him – during the campaign and at the ballot box. The people chose shallow and vapid over substance and principle. There is no assurance that when he’s gone, the American people will be smarter and more careful in whom they back. There is also no guarantee that the GOP will not once again cave to the cries of populism and celebrity either. As they’ve already proven.
    But I like your optimism.

    Dana (023079)

  107. ropelight @ 74,

    (Patterico rightly cautions against the dangers of excessive party loyality but fails to note that accusation is always an inadequate basis for condemnation.)

    I wrote the post, not Patterico.

    Dana (023079)

  108. McDonald vs. City of Chicago. The only “guns” that are illegal in Chicago now are laser dot sights on concealed carry pistols.

    nk (dbc370) — 2/25/2018 @ 11:09 am

    That’s not a great combination anyway if you want good retention. You could always train your wife to laser designate the targets.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  109. “Gutsy conservative writer…” says the comical title.

    Gutsy: Wearing a MAGA hat in public.

    Not gutsy: Informing everyone you’ve anointed yourself as more principled than them.

    random viking (a66018)

  110. @ Dana (#107): After a big qualifier myself — because Trump does indeed have a better claim, as a winning GOP presidential nominee, to be the current leader of the GOP than, say, Romney or McCain had after being losing nominees — I was only critiquing the truth of the “this is Trump’s party” statement “in important respects.” I didn’t intend a broad-brush labeling of your original statement as untrue, and apologize if it came across that way.

    Moreover, I agree with every jot and tittle in your numbered paragraphs above. As to the second, re the people — meaning, specifically here, enough 2016 GOP presidential primary voters to deny any other candidate a path to nomination (and that later in the primary season than any other recent GOP nominee) — having deliberately chosen shallow and vapid, and my optimism despite that:

    The Trump Show has no succession plan, and the ratings are personal to the present host. Trump bounced around the sidelines of the GOP for several years before he actually ran, but neither in current politics or on the sidelines is there anyone who’s a credible contender to hold the cult together. He’s far from the first con man to be successful in politics, but he is genuinely sui generis.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  111. My optimism may be likened to that of John Irving’s fictional character Garp, who was house-hunting with his expectant wife when a small plane crashed into the second story of a house they were visiting. He turns to the agent and says, “We’ll take it!” And turns to his wife and says something to the effect of, “What are the odds of another airplane hitting this particular house? It’s already statistically pre-crash-proofed!”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  112. @ ropelight,

    Charen was invited to CPAP to participate in a discussion about the shortcomings of modern feminism, but instead she selfishly insisted on delivering an insane #NeverTrump rant, complete with accusations of ‘hypocrisy’ against an audience clearly unwilling to sit silently while she hijacked the agenda, and then insulted all those who disagreed with her.

    If you watch the video and read the quote I posted, she absolutely did not hijack the agenda. She was asked about modern feminism, and gave a thoughtful statement that clearly challenged her audience and compelled a deeper thinking about Republicans and their support of women, yet being unwilling to call out the right in equal proportion as they do with Democrats:

    I’m actually going to twist this around a bit and say that I’m disappointed in people on our side for being hypocrites about sexual harassers and abusers of women who are in our party, who are sitting in the White House, who brag about their extramarital affairs, who brag about mistreating women. And because he happens to have a R after his name, we look the other way. We don’t complain. This is a party that was ready to endorse — the Republican party endorsed — Roy Moore for the Senate in the state of Alabama even though he was a credibly accused child molester. You cannot claim that you stand for women and put up with that.

    IOW, she is clearly discussing sexual harassment of women and the reaction to those behaviors by our side of the aisle. Why are we refusing too often to castigate Republicans for this behavior when we are all too willing (and rightfully so) to point it out and condemn when it happens on the left? How do hypocrites like this call themselves feminists and supporters of women if this is a compromise one is willing to make for the sake of Party? This is modern feminism on the right side of the aisle: look the other way while one of our own behaves in a manner that is reprehensible and that we would condemn if it came from a pol with a D after their name.

    That members of the audience felt insulted is on them. They had a choice. I would suggest that how they reacted directly correlated with how honest they were with themselves. Further, and most importantly, can we no longer say anything that might insult our listeners? Are we now supposed to stick to the party line and limit our speech lest we offend Republicans? Or perhaps you think that speech like this should be stifled or shut down? It seems to me that this is yet another hypocritical stance, not unlike leftists on college campuses with whom you and I have both condemned.

    Dana (023079)

  113. paragraph 2 sentence 2:
    The campaign manager… … nearly shoved reporter Michelle Fields to the ground and inflicted bruises on her arm.

    paragraph 2 sentences 4 and 5:

    Instead, the campaign at first suggested that there was a mistake: Lewandowski mistook Fields (who worked at the time for the pro-Trump Breitbart.com) for a member of the mainstream media. Oh, so that makes shoving ok?

    Mona Charen

    In the space of one paragraph Mona moves from almost shoving Michelle Fields to absolutely shoving.

    Which is it, Mona? She can’t make up her mind or hold onto an idea from one sentence to another.

    Fortunately we have video. The video shows Lewandowski sliding in between Fields and the President.

    No shoving. No almost shoving. Mona is full of crap. And insults.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  114. I went to church with my daughter this morning. Then I stepped out of the church and into a world where Trump is President of the United States.”

    Who is President when you are in church?

    harkin (8256c3)

  115. Why are we refusing too often to castigate Republicans for this behavior when we are all too willing (and rightfully so) to point it out and condemn when it happens on the left?

    Define “too often”?

    Because Lisa Bloom has a standing offer of a bounty for a salacious story on any Republican candidate for federal office.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  116. ANd also

    too often

    these unsourced allegations, always against R candidates, are revealed a week or so before the election on the front page above the fold of the WASHINGTON POST>

    You need a better reason to be skeptical? Really?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  117. If you perceive Trump as sitting The Iron Throne then I guess Mona Charen is a Sand Snake.

    Modern Feminism? I think it would be a good idea.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  118. #108, Dana, why so you did. Forgive me for overlooking the fact, and thanks for setting me straight. Best post in the last few weeks, even if I disagree with nearly everything you wrote.

    ropelight (2715b3)

  119. “IOW, she is clearly discussing sexual harassment of women and the reaction to those behaviors by our side of the aisle. Why are we refusing too often to castigate Republicans for this behavior when we are all too willing (and rightfully so) to point it out and condemn when it happens on the left? How do hypocrites like this call themselves feminists and supporters of women if this is a compromise one is willing to make for the sake of Party? This is modern feminism on the right side of the aisle: look the other way while one of our own behaves in a manner that is reprehensible and that we would condemn if it came from a pol with a D after their name.”

    The Left obsesses about sexual harrassment, sexual assault and abuse of women because they are a part of their everyday lives. They are steeped in them. It’s also why they do the virtue signaling. It’s projection.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  120. “The people chose shallow and vapid over substance and principle.”

    What a load of horse hockey.

    After years of listening to establishment politicians bloviate about the “principles” of small government (hi W and your DHS), repealing Obamacare (hi Willard, architect of Obamacare), illegal immigration (hi you whole pack of “comprehensive immigration reform” cum amnesty rat b@stards), and almost every other “conservative principle” while not actually doing anything, the voters chose a candidate from outside the political establishment talking about those principles.

    And now that the guy nevertrumpers hate is actually doing conservative things, they can’t admit they were wrong and so talk complete nonsense, like “There is no assurance that when he’s gone, the American people will be smarter and more careful in whom they back.”.

    Yeah, if only the rest of America was as wise as you!

    Romans 1:22

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  121. At least someone is pushing back… Breaking news… Florida House Speaker Richard Corcoran calls on Governor Rick Scott to suspend Democrat Sheriff Scott Israel for “malfeasance, misfeasance, neglect or duty [or] incompetence.”

    https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/967869470105509888

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  122. Good for Mona!

    The questions that came to my mind were, “Where do we draw the line?” Do we not elect serial sexual cheaters? How much harassment is acceptable. Surely, a Fem’s place on that spectrum is quite far from mine. Braggarts? There would be very few folks left in the Swamp. What about redemption? Moore’s “crimes” were decades ago and as far as I know, has led a circumspect personal life for a very long time. Beldar’s excellent point as to his public performance is important. I am addressing the personal abuse aspect. Personally, I have not found DJT’s relationship exploits to be disqualifying of themselves. However, his utter lack of principle across the board made it impossible for me to vote for him. Even in a binary choice with the truly evil HRC.

    Beldar – I left the GOP long before DJT decided he was one. My conviction was that the party had become infested with corporatist power mongers who abandoned the constitutional and economic principles which were the hallmark of this party for nearly 150 years. Yet and still, I volunteered/worked to get Ted the nomination. The RNC’s reaction to his candidacy and their insidious and subversive efforts to minimize and shove aside the Tea Party are unforgivable. Unless and until I perceive another genuine opportunity to reclaim the party by forcing it back to its righteous roots, I am out.

    As to DJT – when the man is truly taking on the swamp or is otherwise on the side of the angels (Gorsuch), I will most assuredly and happily support those impulses.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  123. Fourteen year old girl who is incorrigible, a problem child involved with drink, drugs, and boys (by her own admission), so much so that her mother voluntarily surrenders full custody over to her father, moving her to another town, alleges that Roy Moore met her at the custody hearing and afterward carried on a relationship.

    A year later in another custody hearing the mother asserts her daughter’s behavior has had a marked improvement in response to the relocation to the father’s home.

    Wait a minute. The Washington Post said that the 14 year old’s bad behavior was caused by , was a reaction to Roy Moore’s harrassment.

    Court records are stubborn things.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/court-documents-raise-significant-questions-leigh-corfmans-accusations-roy-moore/

    papertiger (c8116c)

  124. So they choose an enabler of harassment with deleon, you can make this us!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5431159/Winter-Olympics-NBCs-12billion-dud.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  125. when the man is truly taking on the swamp or is otherwise on the side of the angels (Gorsuch), I will most assuredly and happily support those impulses.

    That was an impressive Preamble then you took it away.

    Gorsuch has yet to unmask.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  126. Gorsuch has yet to unmask

    “I reveal my inmost self to my God.” [YouTube]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  127. You are not that far off, Grasshopper.

    Evangelicals are social Jihadists.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  128. Sounds more like a mixed reception than a sound booing according to:

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/02/cpac-recap.php

    Now reasonable people can argue that she deserved better than a mixed reception, not only for the point she was trying to make or out of respect for her years in the trenches.

    Power Line Differs (0e62c1)

  129. #113, Dana, no, I don’t think that speech like (Mona Charen’s) should be stifled or shut down. However, I absolutely do think labeling people ‘hypocrites’ who disagree with Charen’s blatently unhinged #NeverTrumpism is grounds for asking her (politely) if she voted for Hillary.

    An honest answer would go a long way toward identifying the real hypocrite in this brouhaha.

    PS: Please don’t insinuate again that I’m in favor of stifling free speech. I’m not.

    Now, since Charen has gone full tilt #NeverTrump on stage in front of CPAP and disgracefully insulted the voters who elected Donald Trump president, it would only be a fair to give her the opportunity to speak freely and openly to explain who she decided most deserved her vote in the last presidential election. I’m willing to listen, as long as she’s able to lay off the insane #NeverTrump vitriol, remain civil, and stick to the topic

    ropelight (2715b3)

  130. Social jihadism —— would that be anything like CNN drawing a bead on the NRA to cover up for their favored Democrat precinct’s policy failing at every step to stop an assassin, then their mob harrassing a spasm of corporate sponsors to join in, pointing fingers at the falsely accused?

    Mob justice sucks. On this much we can agree.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  131. Good for her. To have the guts to speak your mind in a society that is shutting down all dissension (no matter what side you are on) is to be applauded.

    As to the booing concerning naturalization… not sure what that was about but as a person who has a wonderful family member who immigrated here and has applied for US citizenship (after 14 years) and is waiting for it all to be processed I’m appalled that someone would be against someone WANTING to become a US citizen when they’ve gone through the legal process and boo them and the process. In the meantime because of all the media hype, the nit-picking by both political parties my family members can’t get visas to see their family (the family in the other country can’t get a visa to come here, and the US citizens here can’t get a visa to go there). It’s ridiculous.

    Rhetoric has results and most often they don’t hurt the person who is spouting it, it hurts others who aren’t even involved because the speaker doesn’t use their brain and think of someone other than themselves.

    Marci (e5bb26)

  132. I was just pondering The Abortive Gesture. Mr Patterico and a few others might relate. I found this interesting:

    It is known that a common treatment for the fear of spiders is to close the phobic patient in a room with a spider. While this treatment may at first seem sadistic, it turns out that although the human responses of fear, shock, or revulsion are at first very acute, they turn out to be temporary. After 30 minutes or so in a room with a creepy crawly, a phobic person finds that he or she simply exhausts his or her ability to be afraid any longer. Once those fears pass, the patient can now look at the spider without freaking out. The patient now has the clarity of mind to consider what the creature really is detached from the acute fear of it.

    There is definitely a subversive thrill in shocking an audience (I recommend you try it at least once because it’s a lot of fun.), but shock is not really the key to make art that is long-lasting, deep, or profound, the stuff that speaks to something eternal in the human condition. Shocking actions, like a spider to the arachnophobe, don’t typically get much deeper than a person’s superficial fear/pain response. Of course, this reaction can be very, very strong, so it is exciting for a musician to see this reaction in his or her audience (who typically look politely bored even when enjoying themselves). It’s a power trip and it is addictive.

    But once the audience has lived with your music for a little while, just as the phobic patient with the dreaded spider, they simply will be physically unable to be shocked by your music any longer. Once this shock wears off, only your music will remains. If it is great art, like Stravinsky’s originally shocking ballet The Rite of Spring, once the initial blow disappears, the craft, emotion, and intelligence will be on display. Once they are done booing, hissing, and tossing rotten cabbages (I always wondered why anyone would decide to bring old produce to a musical event), people will see it for what it is and not what they thought it was.

    Abortive gestures are also responses to the dominant rules of the time in which the artist lives. Once those rules change, what made the gesture an abortive one is no longer present. What is left to history is only a gesture, and history tends to prefer artists who speak to what is universal instead of to the accidental circumstances of their time. Today, it is almost impossible to believe that the lush impressionistic harmonies of Debussy bothered anyone’s ears. But if Debussy’s music were only about offending the tastes of his contemporaries, people wouldn’t still enjoy it or study it or learn to play it. It would just be an oddity only of interest to musicologists and historians of music.

    Larry Marotta

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  133. Marcie, I’m not complaining or booing, but you neglected to identify ‘the wonderful family member who immigrated here 14 years ago and now has applied for US citizenship’ as a legal immigrant or an illegal alien.

    It’s an important distinction.

    ropelight (2715b3)

  134. That CPAC would invite Mona, who was perfectly willing to let Hillary win, and refused to support the Republican nominee in 2016, over Ann Coulter, tells you all you need to know about their so-called “Conservatism”.

    Of course, like any good “conservative” Mona rushed off to that “Conservative” newspaper The New York Times and declared how happy she was to have attacked CPAC.

    Mona “The reasonable conservative” – coming to your beloved NYT Op-ed page, soon. Look for it.

    rcocean (a72eb2)

  135. She was probably for rick Wilson’s meal ticket, Evan mcmillin

    narciso (d1f714)

  136. Stuck on commie infiltrators
    Hoagie.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/25/2018 @ 12:15 pm

    Why don’t you trip a flare before you clock out tonight?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  137. People seem to forget that “conservative” and “Republican” are not synonyms. We have a two-party system for better or worse. I’ve chosen the Republican Party primarily because it seems more “redeemable” to me. In general, both parties will tend to screw things up. However, policies that Republican impose tend to be less ambitious and more reversible that those Democrats impose, so any missteps can be corrected more easily.

    dlm (a4eb00)

  138. 140.People seem to forget that “conservative” and “Republican” are not synonyms.

    ‘People’ haven’t. Conservatives have.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  139. Who is President when you are in church?

    harkin (8256c3) — 2/25/2018 @ 1:17 pm

    Michael Dukakis?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  140. He famously let his people go.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  141. Beldar,

    I was absolutely convinced Republican voters would never fall for the lying patter of a conman like Trump, but I was wrong. Not only did Republican voters and the GOP nominate and elect Trump, they embraced him.

    Will they suddenly realize they have principles after all? Maybe in my grandchildren’s lifetimes, or maybe they will be the foolish anachronisms that the Whigs were in my grandparents’ day. But, like it or not, Trump/Trump values is who Republicans are and what the Republican Party is now and for the foreseeable future. Principles are disposable when you are Winning.

    DRJ (15874d)

  142. Who’s president when Dick Durbin is in church not getting The Sacrament?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  143. If you truly believe that after Trump leaves office, Trumpism will melt away and the GOP will go back to pretending to be conservative … I commend you for your optimism. But, at best, it will only be a pretense. The establishment GOP has not changed one iota and it has corrupted people like Cruz, who at best tried to be conservative but have given up. It’s time for new conservatives to come forward. The current ones have lost their way.

    DRJ (15874d)

  144. …the GOP will go back… It’s time for new conservatives to come forward.

    In case of emergency, break glass and shout ‘Reagan’– see how that works in the 21st century. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  145. No he hasn’t given up, but the number of allies he can rely on, would fit in a phone booth, I look at things through a long view lense drj

    narciso (d1f714)

  146. And today’s Dreamer if the Day is:

    An illegal alien shielded from deportation by the President Obama-created Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program was arrested after allegedly threatening a school shooting in upstate New York.

    On Friday, Rochester Deputy Mayor Dr. Cedric Alexander and Deputy Chief La’Ron Singletary announced that 21-year-old DACA illegal alien Abigail Hernandez had been arrested by the Rochester Police Department after allegedly threatening East High School with a school shooting, according to 13WHAM.

    “I’m coming tomorrow morning and I’m going to shoot all of ya bitches,” Hernandez allegedly wrote on the East High School Facebook page, using a fake social media account


    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i9u5NUofYQk/WpMtJtBapvI/AAAAAAABXhc/UW4VHQcjsDstzTtn2tQhcrkhbPJ5t6vJwCLcBGAs/s1600/DACA-School-Shooter-Threat-Twitter-640×480.png

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  147. The establishment GOP has not changed one iota and it has corrupted people like Cruz, who at best tried to be conservative but have given up.

    Yes. We made the right choice. You’re welcome.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  148. Sounds like as a Texan you’re working yourself up to toss Ted Cruz under the bus.

    Don’t. He’s a good man.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  149. Dana: you can’t even bring yourself to edit a bad typo because….kill the Messenger? How small can one shrink?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  150. Papertiger–go back and read Beldar’s comment at 58. He explains there why Roy Moore is totally unfit for office. It has nothing to do with sexcapades.

    Kishnevi (51ad16)

  151. @ DRJ, who wrote (#144),

    [L]ike it or not, Trump/Trump values is who Republicans are and what the Republican Party is now and for the foreseeable future.

    So Trump and Trumpkin cult would like to pretend, and so it is at the WH. But elsewhere, and especially outside the beltway, it just ain’t so. Even within the beltway, if you ignore the rhetoric and look at how he’s actually governed so far, in fact — with a couple of exceptions that I find troublesome but not nearly as many as I expected by now — you’d come to the conclusion that the GOPe has taken him over rather than vice versa.

    Tell me, do you have the sense in west Texas that there’s a lot of internal conflict right now within the Texas GOP as we approach the primaries? That’s certainly not my impression from Houston right now: I don’t know of a single state-wide race where there’s a “pro-Trump versus anti-Trump” faceoff; I don’t see any incumbents from Texas, including its House and Senate delegation, being primaried by a bunch of Steve Bannon-style revolutionaries. I’m hard pressed to point to a single statewide race, in fact, in which Trump and Trump values are any kind of factor. I fully expect the Dems to extend their record of losing every statewide race in Texas since Bob Bullock’s last term as lieutenant governor under Dubya. I do think Trump’s considerably less unpopular among Texas Republicans today than he was in the 2016 Texas primary, which he lost badly to Cruz after making ridiculous amateur noises about how Texas was “in play,” in large part because there has been some conspicuous winning since his inauguration. and I think Texans of all political stripes are sucked into the WH reality-TV melodrama to pretty much the same extent as the rest of the world, which makes Trump seem more important than he really is. But in what meaningful sense is the Texas Republican Party — from the largest and most influential red state — “Trump’s Party”? I’d say it’s Greg Abbott’s party in Texas today, and that’s likely to remain true for at least the next several years.

    @ Ed from SFV, who wrote (#123):

    Unless and until I perceive another genuine opportunity to reclaim the party by forcing it back to its righteous roots, I am out.

    I understand the sentiment and don’t doubt either its sincerity or the good cause that gave rise to it. I just think such opportunities will be more likely, and come about more sooner than otherwise, if those who know that they for sure aren’t supporters of the Democrat Party would be a little less insistent on distancing themselves from the GOP. It’s not like the dues are very costly, right? There never has been nor will be a shortage of idiots in either party, and we’re talking about a least-worst choice by definition, or rather, for most of us, a collection of least-worst choices.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  152. Dana: you can’t even bring yourself to edit a bad typo because….kill the Messenger? How small can one shrink?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/25/2018 @ 5:28 pm

    I don’t even know what this means.

    Dana (023079)

  153. Don’t worry none of us do,

    The jailer of Richard jewell has not been as bad as yet.

    narciso (d1f714)

  154. Yes, he wisely joined up with Manchin, for all his contortions, the best example he could have.

    urbanleftbehind (916052)

  155. I know some West Texans who are staying home instead of voting, including me, although I don’t know how widespread it is. I guess we’ll see how the turnout goes soon.

    As for staying in the GOP so people will take me seriously … there was a time when Republicans listened to the people who made sense, no matter what tribe they belonged to. I guess that isn’t true anymore.

    DRJ (15874d)

  156. I am not working up to tossing Cruz under the bus. He did it to himself.

    DRJ (15874d)

  157. If you Texans are tired of Cruz, we’ll trade you Duckworth and two Chicago aldermen to be named later for him.

    nk (dbc370)

  158. I don’t even know what this means.
    Dana (023079) — 2/25/2018 @ 7:08 pm

    It is a cry for attention – like all his comments.

    felipe (023cc9)

  159. If you Texans are tired of Cruz, we’ll trade you Duckworth and two Chicago aldermen to be named later for him.

    nk (dbc370) — 2/25/2018 @ 8:24 pm

    You could send them by river if you don’t use too many concrete blocks.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  160. Beldar (#154) – I do not doubt that you are correct from a marketing stand point. More flies from honey and all that.

    I just worry that I may become too much a “Good German” if I don’t call and live it as I see it. Being a fatally flawed human, I assure you that I fail all too often in this.

    Cheers!

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  161. So any thoughts on Trump’s commutation of Sholom Rubashkin?

    Rubashkin was convicted for masking the company’s declining fortunes from the banks that had lent money to the company. His advocates claim that prosecutors effectively set up Rubashkin by taking steps that drove him to take illegal actions that concealed his company’s true debt.

    Rubashkin was sentenced to 27 years for bank fraud. Federal guidelines provide for sentencing of up to 30 years for that crime but allow for mitigating factors, including the defendant’s prior record, his character and the amount in question. Rubashkin had no prior record, and was known for his charitable contributions to Jewish causes. According to one sentencing study, in 2012, the range for financial crimes between $20 million and $50 million hovered around 10 years.

    Times of Israel

    Pinandpuller (5eef23)

  162. If Jennifer Lawrence and Dakota Johnson both want to take a year off I think Haley Bennett has things covered.

    Pinandpuller (5eef23)

  163. THE COLLUSION AGAINST Trump timeline:

    It’s easy to find timelines that detail Trump-Russia collusion developments. Here are links to two of them I recommend::

    Politifact Russia-Trump timeline

    Washington Post Russia-Trump timeline

    On the other side, evidence has emerged in the past year that makes it clear there were organized efforts to collude against candidate Donald Trump–and then President Trump. For example:

    Anti-Russian Ukrainians allegedly helped coordinate and execute a campaign against Trump in partnership with the Democratic National Committee and news reporters.
    A Yemen-born ex-British spy reportedly delivered political opposition research against Trump to reporters, Sen. John McCain, and the FBI; the latter of which used the material–in part–to obtain wiretaps against one or more Trump-related associates.
    There were orchestrated leaks of anti-Trump information and allegations to the press, including by ex-FBI Director James Comey.
    The U.S. intel community allegedly engaged in questionable surveillance practices and politially-motivated “unmaskings” of U.S. citizens, including Trump officials.
    Alleged conflicts of interests have surfaced regarding FBI officials who cleared Hillary Clinton for mishandling classified information and who investigated Trump’s alleged Russia ties.
    But it’s not so easy to find a timeline pertinent to the investigations into these events.

    Here’s a work in progress.

    (Please note that nobody cited has been charged with wrongdoing or crimes, unless the charge ik specifically referenced. Temporal relationships are not necessarily evidence of a correlation.)”

    Read it all, it’s enlightening: https://sharylattkisson.com/2018/02/23/collusion-against-trump-timeline/

    https://sharylattkisson.com/2018/02/23/collusion-against-trump-timeline/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  164. 163, How many of the CPACers are even aware of that? Would have made a great self-identification/litmus test to broadcast news of that commutation to the main stage.

    urbanleftbehind (916052)

  165. “It’s a cult of winning, not navel gazing.”

    – random viking

    So you admit that it’s a cult.

    Leviticus (2bca38)

  166. You cannot claim that you stand for women and put up with that.

    of course you can stand for women and also support Roy Moore too

    Roy Moore was the target of a smear campaign

    why american women need so much goddamn support all the time is another question though

    this is getting kinda pitiful ladies

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  167. Dakota Johnson has a vast charisma deficit what she really needs to buckle down and start working on

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  168. Leviticus, check the “thanks to everyone for their contributions” thread. There is an update.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  169. #168, feet, give it up. The impenetrable depths that anchor women’s psyches admit no light, nor can they be filled with either patience or undivided attention.

    ropelight (e680e3)

  170. i stand for women what stand all by themselves without a bunch of mollycoddles

    mona’s all about shoving womens into warm gooey vats of victimhood and taking snapchats as they wallow in the vat like rescue manatees

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  171. This is a party that was ready to endorse — the Republican party endorsed — Roy Moore for the Senate in the state of Alabama even though he was a credibly accused child molester.

    could sleazy mona the trash-biscuit be more of a scummy scummy liar

    everyone knows the R party endorsed Mr. Strange (see comment #67 for proof)

    even president Trump endorsed Senator Strange

    who endorsed Mr. Roy Moore was the voters of Alabama

    lying puppy dogs don’t get their treats mona no treats for you that’s for sure

    bad dog

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  172. I don’t think that’s what Mona Charen said. I think that what she said is that too many people who call themselves conservatives these days are nothing more than w**re-mongering slime-buckets just like any you’d find in Hollywood running reality shows and phony-baloney beauty pageants and making guest appearances on Home Alone sequels.

    nk (dbc370)

  173. With which I agree.

    nk (dbc370)

  174. yeah but she implied President Trump was in that group too

    that’s just so tacky and she should be ashamed of herself

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  175. Ted Cruz is one of the best conservative senators in America he’s just not president material

    he’s no Donald Trump that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  176. @175 Ya know, nk, if you had put a period after “Hollywood” and not embarked on the snark attack I would have considered you comment worthy.

    BTW, Mona Charen did not say “that too many people who call themselves conservatives these days are nothing more than w**re-mongering slime-buckets just like any you’d find in Hollywood running reality shows and phony-baloney beauty pageants and making guest appearances on Home Alone sequels”, you did.

    Are you angry because you didn’t vote or Trump and he won, or because other people voted for him and he won? It seems you have an almost unlimited amount of negative adjectives for Trump voters. I only wish you would save a few for the actual leftists who have been and will continue to wreck our country and would be worse had Hillary won.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  177. I don’t know what this means

    His fist year might be a Freudian slip Dana.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/25/2018 @ 8:49 am

    Need I paint by number?

    Ben burn (a5ae42)

  178. I’m angry because the whole country has slid so far into Western liberal degeneracy that someone like Trump is considered a conservative. I said as much in my first comment. I’m angry at the whole country.

    nk (dbc370)

  179. And, no, it’s not Commies. Commies are a pretty puritanical bunch. (As much as the first Puritans at Plymouth Rock were communists. Look it up.) It’s Western fornicating liberals.

    nk (dbc370)

  180. nk, I understand where you’re coming from. I don’t know that Trump is considered a conservative and if so by whom. I do know he’s the titular head of the Republican Party right now so he goes to these events and he’s welcome to do so.

    I don’t think the people at CPAC were celebrating Trump, nk, they were celebrating conservatism. I have never considered Trump a conservative nor a real Republican. He was a New York liberal democrat all his life and that’s that. But right now, here, present time and in reality he is the closest thing to a conservative we’ve had in the White House since Reagan. Like it or not.

    We could have had Hillary!. Please stop rehashing the election, the motives of the voters and the man. We need to go forward because after Trump comes After Trump! So unless you want Leviticus’ little Shirley to grow up under the pall of leftist soft communism we best direct our hate in that direction rather than at Trump.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  181. I defy you to point out one significant difference in what communists promote and what “Western fornicating liberals” (todays democrats) promote.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  182. Gawd

    Fornication?

    Is no a descendant of Cotton Mather?

    Ben burn (a5ae42)

  183. I swear the boots stuck in ancient mud are making normal navigation difficult.

    Ben burn (a5ae42)

  184. I’m angry at the whole country.

    Only now, at the end, do you understand!

    Dave (af0487)

  185. Open borders?

    nk (dbc370)

  186. Nair For Men?

    nk (dbc370)

  187. Everything in-between?

    nk (dbc370)

  188. well the reputation of communists as antisex, re nora astorga, is overrated

    narciso (d1f714)

  189. I defy you to point out one significant difference in what communists promote and what “Western fornicating liberals” (todays democrats) promote.

    Western fornicating liberals exhibit unmistakable Trotskyite deviationist tendencies.

    Dave (af0487)

  190. I mentioned Dennis glovers last men in europe, where he attempts to reconstruct what elements (trotsky’s Bio, empsons grammar, this BBC world series experience,) to create 1984

    narciso (d1f714)

  191. Mona Charen is a joke. Her “conservatism” consists of open borders, endless war, shoveling money to big business, etc.

    DN (c1a811)

  192. Essentially the juppe/cameron axis re the filion/ Johnson one

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/25/gun-control-debate-greets-congress-after-florida-s/

    narciso (d1f714)

  193. ” I have never considered Trump a conservative nor a real Republican”

    No, Trump is no conservative, and I don’t think he’s ever claimed to be one. I know I have never considered him to be a self identified conservative, yet, strangely enough, he has acted more conservative in his policies than most of the self proclaimed conservatives in DC.

    As for being a “real Republican”, what does that even mean? Ask a non republican and they will likely tell you it means a Christian, straight white male that hates anyone not republican. Ask a conservative and they will say it means you are a conservative. Ask any Republican that isn’t conservative, and they will say its someone that has registered as a member of the republican party.

    I’m pretty sure only the last one is true, and that makes President Trump a “real Republican”.

    “He was a New York liberal democrat all his life and that’s that.”

    I get tired of correcting this fallacy, but I soldier on:

    Mr. Trump registered for the first time in New York as a Republican in July 1987, only to dump the GOP more than a decade later for the Independence Party in October 1999, according to the New York City Board of Elections.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  194. The ACLU has no juristiction to sue the Supreme Court of Alabama, due to the 11th amendment;

    The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.

    There’s two kinds of people.
    Those who believe the State is the penultimate seat of judgement,

    and those who believe the Lord sits alone upon that throne, applying His judgements against the pettifogs and usurpers who hide their crimes and misdemeanors using State as a stairwell to duck down behind.

    I know that Baldhed is a bigot and his criticism of Moore boils down to a personal distaste, because there are inalienable rights, natural rights, or human rights, all the same thing, predicated on the sovereignty of God.

    Roy Moore should have never been removed from the Supreme Court of Alabama.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  195. Oh, I should clarify. When I said Trump acts more conservative, I meant that as in his actions.

    I’m not sure that was evident enough in the context for everyone to grasp.

    When it comes to acting, as in the theatrical sense, D.C. conservatives would win hands down.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  196. That’s a good point papertiger.

    Here’s a good example of that.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  197. Roy Moore was elected judge by 60% of the public. A panel of appointed frauds {corresponding to super delegates used to predetermine outcomes of elections by the Democratic party} usurped the authority of the Alabama electorate.

    Where does that “right” come from? Perhaps the Alabama Judicial Inquiry Commission (JIC) collected a magic sword from the lady in Lake Gunterville from some ancient time?

    papertiger (c8116c)


  198. “He was a New York liberal democrat all his life and that’s that.”

    I get tired of correcting this fallacy, but I soldier on:

    Mr. Trump registered for the first time in New York as a Republican in July 1987, only to dump the GOP more than a decade later for the Independence Party in October 1999, according to the New York City Board of Elections.
    TheBas (3bcea0) — 2/26/2018 @ 11:00 am


    I stand corrected, Mr. TheBas. And I thank you. I had fallen prey to the age old “repeat the lie often enough and it becomes the truth” theory of leftists propaganda. I’m ashamed it worked on me I was sure I had my leftist bullsh!t detector in working order. Must be time for the 100,000 leftist lies Tune Up. They come so frequently these days.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  199. Name or identify a lie hoagie.

    You’re usually vague in your misconceptions.

    Ben burn (39368b)

  200. Noted leftist Jeb Bush
    http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/aug/24/jeb-bush/bush-says-trump-was-democrat-longer-republican-las/

    (I expect some goal post movement on this)

    Davethulhu (fab944)


  201. I have no idea what “unmistakable Trotskyite deviationist tendencies” means but by any standard a tendency is not a significant difference.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)


  202. 203.Name or identify a lie hoagie.

    You’re usually vague in your misconceptions.
    Ben burn (39368b) — 2/26/2018 @ 1:25 pm

    I just did. Trump was not a life-long New York liberal democrat as I had been told, read and believed accurate until this day. Need another? Man made global warming. Another? north Vietnam won the TET offensive. We could do this all day. Another? Men and women are the same.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  203. Anyways Glover posits that trotsky’s view as inert mass and revolutionary vanguard for the proletariat is the definition of doublethink

    narciso (d1f714)

  204. @203- it perhaps true that Trump was a life long Democrat…before 1987. I have not seen any documentation to that affect, not to say it meant exist However, after that was no longer true.

    Trump has changed party affiliation multiple times, to me evidence he is a pragmatist rather than an ideologue. I would assume our host would praise this as proof Trump is no blind partisan.

    Trump may be an example of the old saw; if one is not a democrat in their youth, they have no heart, if one isn’t a republican in later life, they have no brains.

    Unlike me, who accordingly have never had a heart.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  205. @174 Yeah, bring back the war- mongering sljme-bucket neocons. So principled.

    Pinandpuller (e2e35f)

  206. Aye ya, I butchered that, sorry.

    Add a “is”, and I don’t know how “doesn’t” became ” meant” and a period disappeared.

    It’s what I get for not previewing…

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  207. @196 Dave

    Maybe you can illuminate me about a comment someone made about Irving Kristol being a Trotskyite. I’m a little bit lazy and apathetic to look into it but since you brought it up. Jonah Goldberg was talking to a guy who worked with Kristol, who made him feel bad for wearing jeans to the office on Saturday which would be enough to make me buy an ice pick or quit.

    Pinandpuller (e2e35f)

  208. No it’s still seems vague because your examples are aged and already well known.

    I was thinking of a specific lie from more recent times, but whatever. Just curious.

    Ben burn (39368b)

  209. ice picks are good for when you want to perforate it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  210. The original American report blamed North Vietnam for both incidents, but eventually became very controversial with widespread claims that either one or both incidents were false, and possibly deliberately so.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

    Ben burn (39368b)

  211. I’m a little bit lazy ..

    But you out so much energy into quips.

    Is it just that you think research is like homework?

    Ben burn (39368b)

  212. Corporate political decisions should have consequences.

    That move forced Gov. Nathan Deal and other supporters of the $50 million jet fuel sales tax exemption to shift to the defensive, and prompted a growing number of Republicans to try to strip the provision out of a broader tax-cut bill that has already passed the state House.

    https://www.ajc.com/news/state–regional-govt–politics/delta-tax-break-may-not-take-flight-after-georgia-senate-blocks/C65RcCN2hiMHs7KAuudmyH/

    Ben burn (39368b)

  213. Back at ccny the party was divided between trotskites like Burnham although he was at Princeton and Stalinist, some of the former kristol bell at Al ended up neocon, meyer and chambers were of the latter.

    If memory serves Sydney hook who led the cultural attack on Marxism, and Irving brown, who fought the communist dominated trade unions were in the former category. Orwell was neither a trotskite or an anarchist, dos passes leaned in the second group

    narciso (d1f714)

  214. Why are we still subsidizing jet fuel when these rapscallions put in pay toilets?

    Ben burn (39368b)

  215. Whether Trotsky broke away or not he was essentially one of Richard III’s nephews, yes?

    And White and European or not we shouldn’t have imported any anarcho-commies to raise all their red diaper doper babies.

    Pinandpuller (e2e35f)

  216. I put almost no effort into quips you gormless twit.

    I’m an agitator and an aggregator. A synthesist.

    Pinandpuller (e2e35f)

  217. You sure get irritated for an obsessive ankle-biter. Dishes it out but…

    Ben burn (39368b)

  218. Your agitation cycle is mild permanent-press.

    Ben burn (39368b)

  219. Bill Kristol could be president because he’s not a conservative and he’s a mess on Twitter.

    I wonder if Mona Charen supports Israeli Nationalism and open Israeli borders and endless Israeli foreign wars with Arabs?

    Pinandpuller (e2e35f)

  220. Irritated-ha! I just woke up.

    Pinandpuller (e2e35f)

  221. They were already here, pin. Yes trotsky put the mechanism that made Stalin powerful, the red army, now the German army trained in Russia, between the wars, talk about homefield advantage.

    Irving kristol explained to Nixon, that business had to take up the task of funding the opposition to the left

    narciso (d1f714)

  222. As I said to my recollection:
    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sidney-hook/

    narciso (d1f714)

  223. This is the raving loony interpretation of same:
    http://www.voltairenet.org/article30052.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  224. Is it catty to say Mona has not Jennifer Aniston Rachael hair?

    Pinandpuller (238426)

  225. It ain’t manly unless you’re half a dudette

    Ben burn (39368b)

  226. Interesting atross’s new Alt verse series includes a world where the American revolution never happened, the French dominated Russia, the British empire tookove much of the Spanish territories

    narciso (d1f714)

  227. @ropelight

    Marcie, I’m not complaining or booing, but you neglected to identify ‘the wonderful family member who immigrated here 14 years ago and now has applied for US citizenship’ as a legal immigrant or an illegal alien.

    It’s an important distinction.

    Perhaps I am uninformed but I believe to apply for citizenship you have to be here legally. My family member is here legally.

    Marci (e5bb26)

  228. 196:

    No, Trump is no conservative, and I don’t think he’s ever claimed to be one. I know I have never considered him to be a self identified conservative, yet, strangely enough, he has acted more conservative in his policies than most of the self proclaimed conservatives in DC.

    Are you sure about that? Trump campaigned as a conservative, not because it was true (kudos to you for realizing he was lying) but because he thought it would help him win:

    Facing a barrage of attacks challenging his conservatism, Donald Trump on Tuesday sought to define his own brand of politics.

    I really am a conservative, but I’m also a commonsense person. I’m a commonsense conservative,” Trump said Tuesday. “We have to be commonsense conservatives, we have to be smart.”

    His con worked, didn’t it, 196?

    DRJ (15874d)

  229. He will do and say anything to help himself look like a winner. Right now pleasing conservatives helps him look like a winner. What will be do if he has a Democratic Congress?

    DRJ (15874d)

  230. Trump has redefined conservatism to mean populism,band squishy estzablishment Republicans are all too happy to go along. But populism isn’t what made America great. Conservative values made America great: fiscal responsibility, family values, and Constitutional principles. Trump doesn’t understand any of those things. His whole background stands for the exact opposite of those things.

    DRJ (15874d)

  231. In some respects, conservatism was a rebellion against new deal bureaucracy and academic and cultural elites, thesis what gave hofatadler such agita. They supported local institutions against arrogant legal and political authorities that knew better, in the areas of affirmative action, regulation of business, overweening taxation

    narciso (d1f714)

  232. Now the government has taken upon itself to determine gender to decide which benefits you deserve, exactly how law enforcement should behave, and lo to those who dissent in any and all if these areas

    narciso (d1f714)

  233. Now the GOP seems to be punting on DACA and the Dreamers, legalizing them for 1-2 more years. Will it be a Republican or a Democratic Congress sending a bill to Trump in 1-2 years? Would he care?

    DRJ (15874d)

  234. Yes the usual suspects, why did we bother electing Kennedy anyways

    narciso (d1f714)

  235. Jack Dunphy weighs in on weak-ass Sheriff Israel, the braggart of Broward County…

    “When some major police incident occurs, it is most often my practice to withhold comment until I can be sure that most of the facts surrounding it have been revealed. A horrific event like a school shooting like that which occurred in Parkland, Fla., arouses the impulse to weigh in with opinions based on incomplete or even false information. It is best to resist this impulse.

    Others, of course, with endless hours of air time to fill, and with agendas to push along, are unable to resist it. There may be more egregious examples of this, but I don’t see how anyone can compete with the CNN’s recent “town hall,” at which Sen. Marco Rubio and Dana Loesch were mocked and browbeaten by what amounted to little more than an angry mob.

    Which is not to say the people in attendance didn’t have reason to be angry. The crowd was made up of students, parents, and teachers from Stoneman Douglas High School, where days earlier 31 students and staff members had been shot, 17 of them fatally. From a high school student’s limited perspective and experience, he knows only that something horrific has occurred in his world, something that by all rights should not have. With his nerves still raw and exposed, he sees before him on the stage a conservative senator and a spokesperson for the National Rifle Association, each of whom he perceives, in that limited perspective and experience, to have contributed to the trauma he has experienced…”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/dimwit-florida-sheriff-israel-proud-member-team-obama/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  236. Who are these conservatives who have had so much success in shaping America’s values? In the last 25 years, what can be showcased as a success? I am being sincere when asking these questions.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  237. On the federal level, please name a conservative who has had a positive impact since January, 1989.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  238. I have no idea what “unmistakable Trotskyite deviationist tendencies” means but by any standard a tendency is not a significant difference.

    Trotskyite deviationist tendencies were the leading cause of death in the Soviet Union for about a decade, comrade.

    Dave (af0487)

  239. Trotsky wanted revolution everywhere, Stalin wanted one country at a time.

    The lefts mmoo.is clear in Russia they write against the continuation of the war with Germany the food shortages and the czars offucial corruption,
    In china they styled themselves the real Japanese fighters and against corruption, in Cuba the latter and plenty, and the abolition of the security services and the enacting of the 1940 cobstitution

    narciso (d1f714)

  240. There are many “conservatives” who talk a good, rock-solid game but who will fold like a Cub-Scout tent when the chips are down, when they are presented with an opportunity to turn words into actions. Just as there are many of us who don’t wish to make the hard choices necessary to benefit society, as a whole.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  241. Ditto, coronello:
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/26/when-governor-challenged-trumps-position-on-arming-teachers-trump-hits-back-with-the-hammer-of-truth

    Btw the rest of the story, besides going to war against Finland and Poland(the last being the subject of babels Cossacks tales, they had significant famine not only in Ukraine, and a police organ 100 times more brutal then the okrana. Similar results in china, east Germany and Cuba, with the expedition into Angola and Ethiopia and even Vietnam a well as syria

    narciso (d1f714)

  242. That’s the Supreme Court punting on illegal aliens.

    Punting isn’t the right word.

    They checked this round in favor of kicking the legs out from under government employees union.

    Good old fashion illegal union busting. What kind of a conservative is against that?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  243. Dick Cheney, Bobby Jindal, Tom Coburn, John Bolton, Robert Gates, Dick Armey, Fred Thompson, Newt Gingrich, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and a number of conservative Governors from several red States.

    DRJ (15874d)

  244. And the rest of the field that ran against Trump in the GOP primary were more conservative, except IMO for Huckabee.

    DRJ (15874d)

  245. Cheney bolton newt scalia and Thomas do make a good farm team with Thompson as alternate, I’d add inhofe on environment and Otto reich on Latin American policy.

    narciso (d1f714)

  246. Christie certainly was not, nor kasich, he was the John huntsman of the race:

    The pillow has covered up nicely

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-mystery-martyr/article/2011702

    narciso (d1f714)

  247. “I’m not a lily livered, yellow streak running down my leg, sniveling, duck and cover away from the gunfire, coward,” said Scot Peterson in a prepared statement, peeking out from behind his lawyer’s skirt.

    “They might have been shooting from the outside. Cocked my ear. Couldn’t tell really.”

    So why did you resign without so much as a by your leave, Peterson>?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  248. Par for the course, papertiger. Whether the blue cowards kill somebody or let 17 be killed, what they are most expert at is lawyering up and covering their yellow asses afterwards. #Copslie.

    nk (dbc370)

  249. Dick Cheney, Bobby Jindal, Tom Coburn, John Bolton, Robert Gates, Dick Armey, Fred Thompson, Newt Gingrich, Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and a number of conservative Governors from several red States.

    ? What? Are you saying these guys are in favor of public employee unions coercing the payment of union dues as a condition for working in the government sector?

    Buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh el el el el el el el el el el el el \ [edit]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  250. Even Anthony Kennedy, the jellyfish of the court, is against government unions.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  251. No, leading conservative figures, they coped away at xhwney with bogus allegation, as dubious as this Russia business, top men like voinivich had hives when it cane to Boston and reich of. Course you know the war on newt and then delay. The defamation against Clarence Thomas has been nonstop for more than 25 years. Gates back in the early 90s as cases deputy was a strong voice but he learned to file off the edges at u texas

    narciso (d1f714)

  252. 249 & 250. I agree with your choice of Scalia and Thomas, but what did the others – the politicians – actually accomplish? What did they get done? What did they do of any significance… that had a lasting effect?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  253. Most of these guys were too busy lining their own pockets…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  254. Most of these have not, yes newt had to go on the consulting circuit in exile, as did guiliani after the big apple did a Bronx cheer at his efforts

    narciso (d1f714)

  255. What does any politician do that has a lasting effect if people don’t embrace their principles/policies? By your standard, even Reagan had no lasting effect once he was no longer in power.

    My belief is that successful politicians change minds, and Reagan and the ones I mentioned changed minds about conservative issues. Maybe Trump will be successful (by my standard) but it’s unlikely because he does not have consistent principles/policies. He is only consistent about himself, his brand. That is not the basis for something that will last beyond his Presidency, anymore than it was for Obama.

    DRJ (15874d)

  256. Tale the defense of marriage act, how long did that stand, the resistance to illegal immigration, affirmative action, the incandescent lightbulb, culture and lawfare are like tides of sulfuric acid.

    narciso (d1f714)

  257. DRJ, your 232 is kinda incoherent. Your first bold indicates I wasn’t sure, then what, you ask if I’m sure about not being sure? And no, I don’t realize Trump was lying. I would call that qualifying. Like W calling himself a “compassionate” conservative. Right before he exploded the debt, created massive bureaucracy, and expanded entitlements.

    Heck, your own quote was he “sought to define his own brand of politics.”

    Thing is, Trump is working hard to keep his campaign promises, and is accomplishing conservative agendas, regardless whether you sneer about it being a con. He’s cut taxes and regulations, rejected the GW scam, enforced immigration law, seated constitutional judges, restored sanity in foreign policy including recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capitol and relaxing rules of engagement on the military allowing them to crush ISIS, got more NATO counties to pay their way, got us out of TTP, expanding energy production, reformed the VA, has begun dismantling Obamacare getting rid of the mandate and creating competition, expanded manufacturing, lowered unemployment, put a hiring freeze on federal employees and made it easier to fire the bad ones, smoked out corruption in the FBI and discredited the MSM fake news, and that’s just his first year!

    Guy ain’t perfect, no one is, and I realize he doesn’t comport to the decorum you’ve come to expect in a president. Oh well, I happen to believe his style is the only winning strategy in the brave new politically correct battle space that is Washington politics.

    I know you prefer the polish of a Romney, but he lost and so accomplished zero conservatism. So what would you rather have, the populist Trump implementing conservative policies, or a suave loser?

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  258. Exactly, he has made considerable progress despite 50 knot headwinds from his own supposed allies in the party, this vekakte investigation, and more media induced fainting spells than autumn in mississippi

    narciso (d1f714)

  259. Papertiger–go back and read Beldar’s comment at 58. He explains there why Roy Moore is totally unfit for office. It has nothing to do with sexcapades.

    Kishnevi (51ad16) — 2/25/2018 @ 6:52 pm

    Going to call B.S. on this one. He can rationalize it all he wants, but when Beldar decided to block me over my willingness to support Moore it was over him marrying a woman and dating women many years his junior, not his public defense of our Christian heritage.

    NJRob (fc6af8)

  260. Thank you Rob.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  261. Calling me incoherent is not how to continue a discussion but it is how to end one, 263.

    DRJ (15874d)

  262. How is a common sense conservative different from a compassionate conservative? Don’t bother to answer.

    DRJ (15874d)

  263. Rob and Papertiger: so you see no problem with a judge ignoring any laws he doesn’t like.

    Kishnevi (2717fb)

  264. Compassionate conservatives forces the govt into areas like the price of housing where it doesnt belong

    narciso (d1f714)

  265. 261… Reagan changed minds and his influence will be felt – hopefully – for years to come. The others, not so much, although a case can be made for Gingrich.

    Colonel Haiku (bd4dc3)

  266. “They might have been shooting from the outside. Cocked my ear. Couldn’t tell really.”

    So why did you resign without so much as a by your leave, Peterson>?

    papertiger (c8116c) — 2/26/2018 @ 6:28 pm

    Too much security moonlighting at Van Halen concerts.

    Pinandpuller (f4bd9f)

  267. Rob and Papertiger: so you see no problem with a judge ignoring any laws he doesn’t like.

    Kishnevi (2717fb) — 2/26/2018 @ 9:04 pm

    Good strawman.

    You mentioned Beldar and his reasoning. I offered a contrary explanation with evidence.

    You moved the goalposts.

    NJRob (b00189)

  268. “They might have been shooting from the outside. Cocked my ear. Couldn’t tell really.”

    So why did you resign without so much as a by your leave, Peterson>?

    papertiger (c8116c) — 2/26/2018 @ 6:28 pm

    Jeri Thomson is a hot single mom.

    Pinandpuller (f4bd9f)

  269. Thank you Rob.

    papertiger (c8116c) — 2/26/2018 @ 8:46 pm

    My pleasure.

    If we’re going to have a debate, it’s best to do so honestly otherwise what’s the point. What first attracted me to this site was it was a forum for educated debate. Too many would rather wear blinders like the “gutsy conservative writer” who is the topic of this post.

    She can share a room with Bill Kristol and George Will who took the time to slime Billy Graham upon his passing.

    NJRob (b00189)

  270. Rob: I didn’t move the goalposts. I stated the reason why no conservative should voted for Moore. The sex accusations are irrelevant.

    Kishnevi (2717fb)

  271. Sorry, for the Colonel

    What did they get done? What did they do of any significance… that had a lasting effect?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/26/2018 @ 6:57 pm

    Jeri Thomson is a hot single mom. Callista is Ambassador to The Vatican. Clarence Thomas is ambassador to The Good Sam Club. Tom Coburn retired to actually spend more time with his family. Dick Cheney lent his name to my high school stadium. John Bolton was president of RedEye. Scalia wasn’t even honored with an inquest.

    Pinandpuller (f4bd9f)

  272. Rob and Papertiger: so you see no problem with a judge ignoring any laws he doesn’t like.

    Kishnevi (2717fb) — 2/26/2018 @ 9:04 pm

    There was no law to ignore.

    Just willful bullying by anti-Christian bigots.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  273. Ah yes:

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/26/conservative-writer-george-will-smears-billy-graham.amp.html

    Moore was a,southerner a practicing Christian a fun owner and a,veteran

    narciso (d1f714)

  274. Most of these guys were too busy lining their own pockets…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/26/2018 @ 7:01 pm

    Hi, I’m Bob Dole. I went on talk shows after I lost to Clinton and showed everyone how charming I really am. There’s a lot of lead in this #2 pencil I’m holding.

    Pinandpuller (f4bd9f)

  275. The State of Alabama is free to elect a Chief Justice who decorates the courthouse with glossies of the Ayatollah mounting Santa Claus from behind if they want to.

    But congress can not make a law against it. That would be unconstitutional.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  276. Graham did not come from as rich a scholarly background as Saul of tarsus, but to deny his impact on the world is pound foolish

    narciso (d1f714)

  277. The South Wall Frieze includes figures of lawgivers from the ancient world and includes Menes, Hammurabi, Moses, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius, and Augustus. The North Wall Frieze shows lawgivers from the Middle Ages on and includes representations of Justinian, Muhammad, Charlemagne, John, King of England, Louis IX of France, Hugo Grotius, Sir William Blackstone, John Marshall, and Napoleon. The Moses frieze depicts him holding the Ten Commandments, although only commandments six through ten, usually considered the more secular commands, are visible. In 1997, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) asked for the image of Muhammad to be removed from the marble frieze of the façade. While appreciating that Muhammad was included in the court’s pantheon of 18 prominent lawgivers of history, CAIR noted that Islam discourages depictions of Muhammad in any artistic representation. CAIR also objected that Muhammad was shown with a sword, which they claimed reinforced stereotypes of Muslims as intolerant conquerors. Chief Justice William Rehnquist rejected the request to sandblast Muhammad, saying the artwork “was intended only to recognize him, among many other lawgivers, as an important figure in the history of law; it is not intended as a form of idol worship”. The court later added a footnote to tourist materials, calling it “a well-intentioned attempt by the sculptor to honor Muhammad”.[11]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Supreme_Court_Building

    Well how about that?

    I got one right. One in a row for me.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  278. @279- ha! Leave it to a leading conservative to find even Billy Graham not pure enough and commence the virtue signaling.

    To coin a phrase, it’s who they are, it’s what they do.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  279. “What happened to me at CPAC is the perfect illustration of the collective experience of a whole swath of conservatives since Donald Trump became the Republican nominee. We built and organized this party — but now we’re made to feel like interlopers.”

    That’s the problem Mona. You feel like “it’s your party” and if people like you had listened about “your” party, your “party” would not have endorsed more immigration for starters.

    The idea that “we built this party” is exactly how you got Trump. Years went by and people – such as the Tea Party said – “hey, there’s concern out here” and all you did was take donations and say we should take in more immigrants – illegal, legal or otherwise and amnesty the 11M already here.

    Sorry for the bad manners, but it’s not like it should be unexpected. Because when concerns were made about previous candidates and positions of “your party” we were roundly criticized and had the opportunity presented itself, would have been booed also.

    Steve_in_SoCal (58e1f9)

  280. That’s teh deal about #NeverTrump… always b*tching and monaing.

    Colonel Haiku (bd4dc3)

  281. Drj:

    I hear there are compassionate conservatives but you’re the first one I’ve found. It’s almost like finding Sasquatch..no offense.

    Ben burn (39368b)

  282. Here is my basic problem with all of this – we are falling into the trap of progressives on “equlivation.” that is to say, if I support Trump, then by extension, I support his endorsement of Moore, and by endorsing Moore, and endorse dating 14 year olds.

    I say no.

    I can and do generally support Trump, without endorsing every one of his policies, or by extension all his endorsements, or various things in his personal life that I don’t care for.

    This equivocation game is played mostly by progressives, and I for one am entirely sick of it, mostly because it never goes the opposite direction – Democrats are free to endorse whomever, and no one is ever question on this connections, or chain endorsements. They never get held to the same standard.

    It is not Trump, right or wrong for me, it is Trump when he is right, or when he is at least marginally better than the alternative.

    George Orwell's Ghost (a815b9)

  283. I read today, at the end of aboook review in the Wall Street Journal:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/operation-chaos-review-support-any-friend-1519689175

    Clifford G. Gaddy, an American Deserters Committee member who wrote for LaRouche publications in Sweden, is a former fellow at the Brookings Institution and the co-author of a book on Vladimir Putin ; the other author, Fiona Hill, is a foreign-policy adviser to President Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  284. I can and do generally support Trump, without endorsing every one of his policies, or by extension all his endorsements, or various things in his personal life that I don’t care for.

    No you can’t. Trump is like Herpes.

    Ben burn (39368b)


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