Patterico's Pontifications

2/22/2018

My Exchange with Jake Tapper Regarding the Shooting Survivors Whose Voices Weren’t Heard Last Night

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:00 am

I’m going to put my cards on the table: First, I like and respect Jake Tapper. He’s one of very few people on CNN who bends over backwards to be fair, most of the time — and he’s willing to interact on Twitter with people who are polite to him. Second, I was not able to watch his town hall on the Florida school shooting last night. Like Allahpundit at Hot Air, however, I was dubious about the notion of this town hall, given the title they chose for it:

The actual network-approved title of tonight’s event is “Stand Up: The Students of Stoneman Douglas Demand Action.” This is an advocacy event, not a “news program,” and they’re making no bones about it.

Not having seen the program, I can’t claim to opine on its fairness. Any judgments I make without having watched it would be unreliable second-hand judgments based on clips I have seen and the general reaction of the commentariat. But Allahpundit made a point in his post last night about who was invited, and who wasn’t, and I think it’s a fair issue to raise: “It’s a showcase for very sympathetic victims on one side but not, a la Steve Scalise, on the other.”

So I decided to ask Jake Tapper on Twitter about two shooting victims who don’t toe the gun control line, and why they weren’t on the program. Here is our public exchange. I asked:

Tapper replied:

I asked another question:

I did not get a public response to that question. (I don’t mean to make Tapper sound unresponsive. He talked with me about it a little bit in direct messages, but I’m not going to repeat the contents of private conversations.)

In case you haven’t heard of him, Brandon Minoff is a survivor of the school shooting who has publicly expressed disdain for what he perceives as the media using the shooting to promote gun control:

A survivor of the deadly shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who was previously interviewed by CNN and MSNBC following the mass shooting, told Fox News he believes certain media outlets are politicizing the tragedy to push gun control.

Brandon Minoff, an 18-year-old senior, said the media chose to target gun control advocates instead of focusing on the 17 lives lost in Wednesday’s slaughter.

“I wholeheartedly believe that the media is politicizing this tragedy,” Minoff said. “It seems that gun control laws is the major topic of conversation rather than focusing on the bigger issue of 17 innocent lives being taken at the hands of another human.”

Now, I’m not aware that Minoff tried to submit a question. Nor am I accusing Tapper of bias in the selection of students, since I have no reason to believe he was the person selecting who spoke. Again — and I’ll take flak from Trump lovers for this, but that’s fine — I like and respect Tapper, and see him as a newsman who tries to be fair. I’m not saying he wasn’t trying to be fair last night.

Here’s what I am saying: Minoff had a valuable perspective to offer CNN’s town hall. He would have been a good person to seek out. If CNN didn’t want to invite on Scalise because a) he’s not a survivor of this shooting and b) he doesn’t represent these Florida students, I think those are fair points. But a student who suffered through this shooting but nevertheless rejects the pro-gun control arguments is a voice that should have been heard. I knew about Minoff yesterday morning, and mentioned him in this post. I wish CNN had known about him too, and had sought him out to offer his point of view.

Please note: I’m not complaining about Dana Loesch being invited on to represent the NRA position. Dana is their spokesperson, and she’s very articulate, and clips like this show that she can hold her own. But the impression I am getting from critics — which, again, I can’t confirm because I didn’t watch the program — is that the town hall was short on skeptics of gun control among students who survived the shooting. And yet, they exist — and shooting survivors carry that “moral authority” that spokespeople like Loesch or politicians like Rubio (but not Scalise!) lack.

I’m going to take CNN at their word that they didn’t censor student Colton Haab or try to script his answer. This is not an accusation that CNN is trying to squash a particular position, so much as a lament that the perspective of Brandon Minoff was not heard.

That said, I thank Jake Tapper for his answers.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

190 Responses to “My Exchange with Jake Tapper Regarding the Shooting Survivors Whose Voices Weren’t Heard Last Night”

  1. I like Tapper, too, but he did not do his reputation any good last night. I’ve just seen clips so far, but it was a rally, not a town hall. Gutfeld was right: this was the Jerry Springer show. I wonder how they scored on the ratings.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  2. I watch Tapper at least a little, at least weekly. I used to watch him more, and I used to agree with our host’s assessment of him. I don’t anymore. He’s now in the category of “best of a very bad lot” at CNN, but neither him nor anyone else at CNN remotely qualifies as a professional journalist anymore, and if our host is right that Tapper is “trying” to be fair, he’s not trying remotely hard enough. I very much doubt he or anyone could keep his job at all at CNN if he were actually a professional journalist day-in and day-out, but he’s in no danger of being fired.

    And Twitter delenda est.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  3. The wrong time for making important decisions is when you’re upset.
    Usually, strong emotions are anti-thetical to reason. But people still have to purge their grief and anger so that purpose is being acvomplished and the chyron you question may just facilitate or inflame:

    Fielders choice.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  4. Burn the witch.

    NJRob (b00189)

  5. The left is pushing a “Do Something” narrative. But you are not going to see:

    #Demsfor2ndAmendmentRepeal

    AZ Bob (50520d)

  6. I have a question. Was the audience selected?

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  7. CNN pushing the”Let the Children Lead” narrative. Tapper is a sorry-assed shill…

    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2018/02/21/cnns-tapper-sits-back-student-equates-rubio-school-shooter

    Colonel Haiku (bd4dc3)

  8. I hope Tapper didn’t try to take down the Malaysian Prime Minister.

    Pinandpuller (4e6771)

  9. I don not share your opinion of Jake Tapper and I watched the entire episode last night even though I did not want to because I knew exactly what it would be-a lynching of the NRA*, Trump, Republicans and the Constitution about which these children have been taught very little. Also because I made myself a non emotional promise not to patronize CNN. But I had to just to prove my beliefs about the Dark Media is true. It’s true, I was not surprised. They are nothing more than a propaganda generator for leftists. They and their coconspirators want one thing: a repeal of the second amendment even if it’s done by judicial fiat (which is why having Trump elected was so damn vital). Can you hear me now?

    * They made the NRA sound like child-killing Nazis instead of a national organization of fellow citizens concerned with the exploitation of incidents to gut our Constitution and the erosion of all our Liberties by incrementalism. He admitted it was an advocacy rally. My question is why do they never have an advocacy rally for the Bill of Rights?

    Comrade Ben! @3… Wow, I agree (in a rational, non emotional manner).

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  10. You can be the fairest person in the world and still work for an organization that uses you to their ends. Some things are shouted from the rooftops, some things get the spike.

    And some production company folks may do stuff that the star or corporate would never want. If that kid was actually given a scripted question by some production assistant, Tapper and CNN probably knew nothing of it. It will be interesting to see if there are more shoes to drop.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  11. And Twitter delenda est.

    You should say that at the end of every post.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  12. “Nor am I accusing Tapper of bias in the selection of students, since I have no reason to believe he was the person selecting who spoke…”

    Tapper is supposedly a good journalist and should have been responsible for something so fundamental as the selection of the students on the program. How could a good journalist possibly be unaware of Minoff and his opinion?

    Fred Z (05d938)

  13. Conservatives suffer from battered wife syndrome, so Tapper looks like a good catch.

    Loesch and Rubio go back for more beatings because the guy is gonna turn it around, some day.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  14. And I much prefer Trumpalo to “Trump lover”. A Trumpalo sounds like a noble bull animal roaming the American wilderness, righting wrongs, rescuing fair damsels, helping the poor and downtrodden, snorting disdain at the antics of liberals and, dare I say, speaking truth to power.

    Fred Z (05d938)

  15. I thought it was a Juggalo who found a presidential candidate that wasnt going to ship him to Iraq or was part of that strange Goody-Two-Shoes Magic Underwear religion.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  16. Meh. Watched it. Though cathartic in their immediacy for those on hand, these type of televised ‘town hall meetings’–regardless of topic addressed and punctuated w/advertising messaging– generate more heat than light– as is the nature of television. It will be forgotten by Monday, replaced by a fresh one when another event overwhelms. Earthquake preparedness, anyone?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  17. I like and respect Tapper, and see him as a newsman who tries to be fair.

    A conservative who says this about Tapper would be like a Leftist saying the same about, say, Sharyl Attkisson. But, I don’t think such a Leftist exists.

    Expectations regarding fairness are so hopelessly skewed, and the host has bought into it.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  18. Was Obama ever challenged in this way by CNN or victims?

    Patricia (3363ec)

  19. Obama had Sandy Hook.

    AZ Bob (50520d)

  20. “… or was part of that strange Goody-Two-Shoes Magic Underwear religion.”

    I remember reading an excellent book – probably 30 or so years ago – that had documented the Vietnam war experiences shared by a hundred or so vets of that war. There were many that stood out, but one, in particular, stayed with me… shared by a guy who told of a member of his company who happened to be of the Mormon faith and the one battle that defined him. The surviving vet was moved to tears when he described the acts of selfless bravery his buddy had performed in the last hour of so his life that saved the lives of many of his fellow soldiers.

    It would probably leave you choking on your sarcastic bile, ulb…

    Colonel Haiku (bd4dc3)

  21. Tapper thought someone said a representative from Baader-Meinhoff would like to ask a question.

    Rubio and Loesh cut off by a Chevy full of teenagers on Zie Tapper Bridge to Nowhere.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  22. It would probably leave you choking on your sarcastic bile, ulb…

    Colonel Haiku (bd4dc3) — 2/22/2018 @ 11:18 am

    To be fair he was knocking on huts on a Saturday morning.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  23. Just so you know my bias, Colonel Haiku, my family was delivered from the LDS by The Homestead Act. Somewhere around Green River, WY.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  24. Not my personal opinion of LDS, considering i gave them a chance in 2 consecutive presidential elections. just what i actually would hear from rust belt and Driftless (miss. Valley parts of MN, IA, WI and IL) people when Romneys victory didnt materialize.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  25. 2 — Hallelujah. I got excoriated a while back for pointing out that the ABC News Tapper has left the building, and the CNN Tapper is a completely different persona.

    I think CNN long ago lost the benefit of the doubt when it comes to questioning the editorial POV of their programming. I don’t see them as having any “straight news” any longer — everything comes with a significantly left-of-center slant. That comes from the President, and works right down through the production staff that puts together the on-air programming.

    On-Air talent like Tapper were, once upon a time, significant players in determining what goes on the air. But I don’t think that has been the case at CNN for a long long time.

    At ABC News, while they had clearly liberal on-air newscasters, they came from the old-school tradition of separating news reporting and opinion. Even the “opinion” shows made an effort to balance the broadcast — Nightline and the original version of This Week with David Brinkley being good examples. Peter Jennings was a liberal, but you rarely saw it in the nightly news broadcast.

    That has simply never been the case with CNN — at least as far back as when it was rightfully tagged with the moniker of being the the Clinton News Network.

    Their virulent anti-Trump position since before the election — right down to running anonymously sourced stories where the sources were clearly partisans, and their information was often wrong — throws a wet blanket over any pretense to journalistic integrity, and that covers Tapper as well.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  26. You know, there are many churches that employ what Michael Savage calls “The Leg Lock” to draw in converts. It happened to a good friend of our family. It’s often employed on Saturday mornings, matter of fact.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  27. So did the Nymphomaniac from Queens or LI Savage always talked about use that method to get guys?

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  28. A Trumpalo sounds like a noble bull animal roaming the American wilderness, righting wrongs, rescuing fair damsels, helping the poor and downtrodden, snorting disdain at the antics of liberals and, dare I say, speaking truth to power.

    Fred Z (05d938) — 2/22/2018 @ 10:26 am

    Some CNN types would just as soon cut their tongues out.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  29. So did the Nymphomaniac from Queens or LI Savage always talked about use that method to get guys?

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2) — 2/22/2018 @ 12:07 pm

    Rule 34.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  30. Florida should change their death row options to Lethal Injection and Drone Strike.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  31. Trump says they shuld commit more people to mental institutions.

    They already did that with Nikolas Cruz’s brother. What do you think are the odds that really makes sense, (all the reasons are secret so nobody can have an opinion,, but I just highly doubt it is justified)

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1)

  32. This kid’s family is pretty much all dead so Trump’s campaign promise beat Dave on a technicality.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  33. Nikolas Criz stood to inherit a lot of money, although he might have lied about the amount. I read he was claiming $800,000. But his adopted mother left assets of about $1 million, and had debts, and would have had to split it with his brother.

    His adoptive mother died because of poorly written medical insurance policies. She didn’t see a doctor for an infection – it turned out to be the flu, (which has a rapid onset, unlike a cold) because she didn’t want to spend money out of pocket. She was always very frugal, they say.

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1)

  34. Well Sammy, it sounds like Melania needs to plan a sham wedding for the Cruz’s to attend.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  35. 31…well, you gotta build them or at least retrofit existing buildings…..you gonna add that to your infrastructure plan or up that SALT cutoff?

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  36. Hoagie, are we reaching an understanding?

    “However, Lincoln cautioned, dictate to a man’s judgment, command his action, or mark him to be despised, “and he will retreat within himself, close all the avenues to his head and his heart. And even though your cause be naked truth itself, transformed to the heaviest lance, harder than steel, and sharper than steel can be made, and though you throw it with more than Herculean force and precision, you shall be no more be able to pierce him, than to penetrate the hard shell of a tortoise with a rye straw.”
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/522102/

    Ben burn (7d2e65)


  37. His adoptive mother died because of poorly written medical insurance policies. She didn’t see a doctor for an infection – it turned out to be the flu, (which has a rapid onset, unlike a cold) because she didn’t want to spend money out of pocket. She was always very frugal, they say.


    You start out blaming “poorly written medical insurance policies” which is total bullsh!t. Fortunately you end with the truth that the b!tch was so cheap she killed herself rather than see a doctor. The woman had tons of money are we to be sad because she was stingy and stupid and blame Aetna?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  38. Even an old, salty dog like me can learn.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  39. 31 Sammy
    Five to one Cruz’ brother isn’t nuts. But the cops have to show nobody’s better at closing the barn door…just this much too late.
    The UK paper has the cops watching the surveillance video not knowing it was on twenty-minute delay.
    Sheesh.

    Richard Aubrey (dba09d)

  40. I heard of ghost weddings (it started with fiances of French soldiers killed during World War I) but what is this about sham weddings whatever they are??

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1)

  41. Trump says they shuld commit more people to mental institutions.

    Involuntary commitment is a notorious means of stripping people of allrights. Due process can be circumvented.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)


  42. 36.Hoagie, are we reaching an understanding?


    I think so. I find you an intelligent and capable person and I respect you. But I will never be able to agree with most that those fingers type nor will you for me. We both can live with that.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  43. We both can live with that.

    Ditto. I can be pursuaded however. Just make the case.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  44. 37. Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 2/22/2018 @ 12:42 pm

    You start out blaming “poorly written medical insurance policies” which is total bullsh!t. Fortunately you end with the truth that the b!tch was so cheap she killed herself rather than see a doctor. The woman had tons of money are we to be sad because she was stingy and stupid and blame Aetna?

    People respond to incentives whether you think they should or they shouldn’t, and medical insurance policies should take that into account. In fact actually, deductibles or co-pays are premised on that. I don’t know what her exact insurance policy was, but she probably had a high deductible she never normally would meet. Insurance policies maybe should have doughnut hole that works on a use it or lose it basis. Or they should charge nothing for unscheduled doctor’s appointments. Something to prevent people from acting this way, because more than one person can act this way. The thing about the flu is, at first people may not think it is a serious illness.

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1)

  45. A band of “true conservatives” out on a Trumpalo hunt. [YouTube] Trying to stear the herd.

    Just imagine each of the buffalo wearing a MAGA blanket over their humps,

    papertiger (c8116c)

  46. So Taper cut off a question to Democrat Ben Nelson that he said was meant for Dana Loesch, but let that kid go on a diatribe against Senator Marco Rubio without any such concern.

    Staged propaganda.

    Locke (3c9e5e)

  47. well, you gotta build them or at least retrofit existing buildings…..you gonna add that to your infrastructure plan or up that SALT cutoff?

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2) — 2/22/2018 @ 12:31 pm

    They aim to beat Dick’s Sporting Goods and Cash America into plowshares.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)


  48. Readers could easily get the impression, as many journalists have, that McDougal wrote these notes during what she describes as a consensual relationship that began in 2006. But that is not the case.

    Did you get that impression? I got that impression, that she had ripped some pages out of her diary contemperaneous to the events described.


    A telltale marking on the entries, reproduced by the magazine, shows that McDougal wrote these pages either during or since the 2016 campaign—relying on memories that were at least a decade old.

    The Playboy model must be a fan of the FBI. Using their tactics.


    The McDougal passages were written on a notebook marketed by fashion designer Izak Zenou, whose name appears at the bottom of one of the pages. He got into the business of creating office supplies in 2016, and the notebook was not available for sale on Amazon until March 2016.

    The timing is significant.

    Farrow writes that “the interactions that McDougal outlines in the document share striking similarities with the stories of other women who claim to have had sexual relationships with Trump, or who have accused him of propositioning them for sex or sexually harassing them.”

    papertiger (c8116c)

  49. Even an old, salty dog like me can learn.

    Ben burn (7d2e65) — 2/22/2018 @ 12:42 pm

    You seem to have taken the host’s chiding and held it close to your coeur mechant.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  50. I heard of ghost weddings (it started with fiances of French soldiers killed during World War I) but what is this about sham weddings whatever they are??

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1) — 2/22/2018 @ 12:44 pm

    If Trump wants to fulfill his campaign promise he can take from Column A Muslim sham weddings for dalliances with courtesans and Column B Obama’s wedding gift a Hellfire missile.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  51. @45 papertiger

    Trump should sue Costner over “Wind in His Hair”.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  52. host’s chiding

    Fake News.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  53. Staged propaganda. me arse..

    -David Hume

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  54. Is Jake Tapper if CNN the same Jake Tapper who used to be a spokesman for Handgun Control Inc.?

    If so, why is that not disclosed by CNN?

    From 2006:

    “….the American Broadcasting Corporation added former Salon.com reporter Jake Tapper to their line-up in July 2003, and has been using him to cover firearms-related stories.
    Who is Jake Tapper, you ask? Prior to working for Salon.com, Mr. Tapper worked for Handgun Control Inc. – something that ABC leaves out of his bio on the ABC website. Reporters will frequently tell us that whatever their privately held convictions, they don’t let that interfere with giving us the straight story. I have no doubt Jake Tapper will say the same if he is challenged about his credibility. However his writing for Salon.com shows that he is yet another anti-gun leftist hack.”

    https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/abc-taps-former-handgun-control-inc-employee-jake-tapper-report-gun-issue

    harkin (8256c3)

  55. 48ff “Readers could…”

    Where is this taken from?

    There also have been some new, supposedly old, accusations against Clarence Thomas. This was in a front page article in New York Magazine that seemed to be arguing for his impeachment.

    If we’ve got some people organizing slanderous attacks against individuals, that is important to know.

    I would say at the minimum, this must involve a private detective agency – just to make something semi-plausible.

    With regard to shooting, somebody had to locate the KCBS video of when one student was previously on the news – then somehow get it out without it being traced back. It’s nothing really remarkable, but they invented an accusation. Somebody’s pushing the meme that all the mass shootings are hoaxes, and I suppose it’s to make the people arguing against the latest gun control nostrum into complete idiots. They may be running both sides of the argument.

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1)

  56. Staged propaganda. me arse..

    Reminded me of “who stole the chicken?” from Schindler’s List. [YouTube]

    Heather’s dead. Tiffany is in the ICU. When you’re a kid you want to think you can do something about that.

    CNN playing into, indulging their naivety. Just like Amon Goth instilling a sense of culpability in his victims.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  57. 50. They are not sham weddings. I think when they do that, it is marriage ceremony , but not really a wedding, and it is not s sham, but a legal act under Islamic law. Obama did bomb some weddings, which may sometimes have been cover for terrorists getting together, and in cases false information – maybe both at the same time, in that the very important persons – important enough to justify a drone attack – never were supposed to be there

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1)

  58. I certainly agree Clarence Thomas needs a second look but not because this has anything to say, contextually, as to the topic, Sammy.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  59. The whole mental illness thing is a ploy.

    First thing, it would ignore due process, denying a civil right on the basis of a potential future crime.

    Second, who even determines what constitutes a disqualifying mental illness? It isn’t like the science is settled; not long ago homosexuality was considered a mental illness. Then it wasn’t. Who is to say when the medical profession will declare belief in a higher power is a mental illness? Or for that matter, the very desire to own a “killing machine” aka a gun, is psychopathic and so disqualifying?

    Never forget, when it comes to progressive would be authoritarians, if you’ll forgive the redundancy, the slippery slopes are exceedingly slippery.

    Rather than using some sort of mental illness criteria, how about we just make it illegal to administer SSRI’s to anyone under 21, and only to those over 21 that are in a controlled institutional setting? You know, a funny farm.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  60. Thoughts:

    This school had 3,000 students. The bigger the school, the higher the probability that one of its students, more likely an ex-student by that time, will want to shoot up the school.

    Another point to ponder: This would never happen at an all girls school, because this is only done by boys, and probably without exception, only at school they attended. Even if this was tried at a strange school, the shooter would make tactical mistakes.

    Gun free zones (for most people) are OK, but only if everybody goes through a metal detector and there are no ways of evading that.

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1)

  61. Incoherent New York Times editorial about a mass killing elsewhere in the world:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/21/opinion/syria-ghouta-russia-isis.html

    They want the world to do something, but something seems to be indicting people, including people from Russia (Vladimir Putin included?) They don’t want a wider war.

    Surgical strikes on Syrian planes?

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1)

  62. I would like to converse paper tiger but first I want you to apologize for your smear against Eric Clapton declaring his need for the solace of lyrics, arrangement and performance was motivated solely by the cash.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  63. Speaking of schools, here is a column with some fascinating facts. Did anyone else realize that 80 years ago, adjusted for population, we had 6 times as many schools, and 7 times as many local school board members?

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  64. ” This would never happen at an all girls school, because this is only done by boys”

    Never?

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  65. 41. 59. This is absolutely right – this ignores due process (plus the fact that nobody wants the responsibility of declaring someone dangerous or not – the only safe thing to do, from a malpractice liability perspective, would be locking up lots of people, and that would harm business)

    Trump talks about that, because he’s got to have a (non-)answer, and getting rid of all AR-15s (and shortguns maybe too?) is not one a lot of people who supported him want.

    There was an Op-ed in the New York Times that argued in part (I think) that what was wrong with Nikolas Cruz was not a mental illness but a personality trait. Or values, a different person would say.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/opinion/mental-health-stopping-mass-shooters.html

    I ended up admitting this patient, and he was released by the hearing officer two days later. He never took any medication, never reached the threshold for a federal firearm prohibition and left the hospital in the same state he arrived in. Like so many of his peers, he will not seek out therapy for the longstanding personality traits that seem to predispose him to violence and rage, and there is no way to impose treatment upon him.

    The reason the mental health system fails to prevent mass shootings is that mental illness is rarely the cause of such violence. Even if all potential mass shooters did get psychiatric care, there is no reliable cure for angry young men who harbor violent fantasies.

    This is partially a legal thing – the justification for locking people up is that they will treat them.

    There’s no such treatment for lack of a conscience.

    And we know also from people who have studied experts that their accuracy ratio is not better than a simple algorithm

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1)

  66. It was a good song. But come on, even Eric Wouldn’t cop to what you propose, that others should bow down and subvert the truth because his kid died.

    The lyric is Eric doubting his child, who he abandoned to others in life, would remember him in the afterlife. Then confessing it will never come up, presumably because Clapton has been such a self serving prick, that he’ll never get to Heaven.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  67. This is an advocacy event, not a “news program,” and they’re making no bones about it.

    Exactly but only to advocate leftist positions.

    In the 50s and 60s mentally ill people were send to mental institutions. Cruz, Lanza, Loughner, etc., all were known by people around them to be dangerous. While they are free, no one can guarantee that they are taking their meds and going to therapy. In fact, it’s too expensive to monitor each one individually. Sorry, but to save lives I think at least a one-year involuntary commitment is fair, or a one-year restraining order against possession of any weapon.

    Regardless, CNN and their ilk persist in demanding a utopia, even using children as props.

    Time to separate the insane from their weapons and from us. The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  68. Apparently there is no middle ground. The best idea I’ve heard is voluntary teachers be permitted to carry.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  69. Personality trait…mental illness…regardless Sammy.

    We have profiles for them easily identified. One of which is tortures animals..disrespect for life, other than it’s own…etc.

    These are abnormalities we can agree on with physical evidence. DONE.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  70. Captain Chaos wants our teachers to carry guns. What is this, the Wild West of yore? Is our country so dangerous that all of us have to carry guns around, to protect ourselves from others with guns? That would send a powerful and sad message to our kids.

    And Putin, the NRA, and the killing machines gun industry all smiled.

    Tillman (a95660)

  71. The armed guard, Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson took cover in the parking lot while the shooting was going on – even after other people arrived. he was suspended without pay today, but decided to resign (or was that retire? He had 30 years on the job)

    Still, Cruz most likely avoided him. He probably got in through one of the doors that he knew would be unlocked just before school let out.

    Sammy Finkelman (e0d9f1)

  72. Tillman, the plan isn’t for all teachers to carry guns. It’s for some teachers, volunteers, to get training and carry guns.

    For example, that poor b@stard that gave his life shielding students…would t it have been better if he was armed and took the crazy kids life instead?

    What’s your solution?

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  73. By the way, the NRA is me. Along with millions of other individual citizens that see being able to carry arms is the difference between free men and slaves.

    No one is forcing people to carry a weapon, but I strongly advise anyone from trying to enslave me.

    And what the hey does Putin have to do with anything? Are you suggesting the 2nd amendment is a Russian plot? And is culluding with me and the Rugar company?

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  74. 4. I don’t think that mentally ill people should get guns, nor should there be loopholes such as gun shows.
    If guns are so fantastic, I wonder why they weren’t allowed in the last Republican convention? We’re told that only someone with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun, right?

    As I read somewhere, if those were 17 congressmen who where massacred, the conversation would be different.

    I don’t think we should do away with guns, but the slippery slope argument has to go. We already draw a line somewhere, otherwise you could buy a bazooka at Walmart.

    As a comedian pointed out, you can go around the corner to Walmart and buy a 12 gauge shotgun. But to buy a firecracker, you have to drive clear across the state line to get that!

    Tillman (a95660)

  75. *74. not 4.

    Tillman (a95660)

  76. Hoagie, Reagan was surrounded by secret service men, who of course were well trained and armed. He still got shot.

    Tillman (a95660)

  77. Tillman: there is more to this than mere attachment to gunz.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  78. Cheese and rice, Tilman.

    You never been to a convention center? Trust me. They’ve got guns there. I wouldn’t advise you trying to kick off any nonsense at a convention center, unless you have a hankering for additional ventilation.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  79. The aim of past Totalitarian regimes on Left or Right is to first restrict weapons access to public.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  80. 79, applying today’s lessons about a recalcitrant federal apparatus and its quest to kill the king, that particular incident from 1981 should not be surprising to us jaded 2018 observers. “Were they Carter holdovers?” would be one such response.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  81. Actually Reagan’s would be assassin was closely related to the Bush family. Make of it what you will.

    I’m over it.

    Here’s something. FOIA requested files of 911 calls responding to nonsense caused by the Parkland shooter over the last few years.

    https://100percentfedup.com/new-911-reports-released-show-florida-shooter-obvious-threat-local-police-let-off-hook/

    Yeah. He had skipped his meds quite a few times. Brandishing. Holding people hostage. Property damage. People who know him well can tell you full measure the meaning of “Holding a gun to my head.”

    papertiger (c8116c)

  82. “I don’t think that mentally ill people should get guns”

    How do you define “mentally ill”? Who gets to decide what sort/level of mental illness disqualifies you from having a gun? At what point are the mentally ill “cured”, or is the ban for life?

    Do you think a vet diagnosed with PTSD should never be allowed to own a gun? Depression is called a mental illness, how long should a depressed person be denied a gun?

    How are you going to stop the progressives from politicizing the process, like for example deciding islamaphiobia is a mental illness so anyone wanting to deny Muslims sharia laws is mentally ill?

    What other civil rights should be stripped from people that have the potential of committing a future crime? More people are killed by drunk drivers than guns, should vehicles be banned from people that drink?

    Just a few questions for you to consider.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  83. Manafort is nearly 70 and doesn’t wantbto spend the next 20 years in a SUPERMAX. The pressure is on to comply…
    federal court in Virginia on Thursday returned a 32-count superseding indictment charging Manafort and Gates with committing tax fraud, failing to file reports on foreign bank and financial accounts, and bank fraud conspiracy.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  84. WIth respect to Jake Tapper, it’s just not so that the town hall wasn’t “produced” in the suspected fashion.

    Tapper himself had to “correct” a student who asked question of Nelson, because the question, Tapper said, had been meant to be asked of the NRA rep.

    This is plain evidence the student had not crafted his own question, as he did not even know to whom it was supposed to be addressed. He didn’t spontaneously decide to ask Nelson that question…he just read off his bit of script at the wrong moment for the producers wishes.

    And that’s a shame, and given CNN’s rather tragic Town Hall history, where questions are not happening in true town hall fashion, but are stage-managed instead (and that’s putting it in the light most favorable) I believe the kid your brought up with Tapper, who said he was not permitted to choose his question and put it his way to the person(s) he desired.

    It isn’t right.
    These are kids who haven’t had any in depth instruction on the basis of that particular liberty, public education being what it is. They have no clear perspective on what is lost and what is gained.

    The persons that should be grilled and asked about policy change include the school board, the school administrators, local law enforcement and state agents and Federal law enforcement who dropped the ball at every turn.

    His history of violence, let alone his constant promise of violence and death to others, had been enough to arrest and/or hospitalize him at serveral points

    SarahW (3164f0)

  85. Problem for Manafort and others is once the plea guilty to Ted charges it opens them to state prosecutors.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  86. It was once said the difference between Japanese and American process is the Americans seek to place blame whilst Japanese seek solutions.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  87. Who is Gates?

    papertiger (c8116c)


  88. 90.It was once said the difference between Japanese and American process is the Americans seek to place blame whilst Japanese seek solutions.


    I don’t know. The Americans placed the blame on the Japanese for starting WWII and the A-bomb was our solution. Fact is we did both and they didn’t.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  89. Saving face is a different issue hoagie. Some things are it’s a than death to Japanesem

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  90. are it’s a than death to Japanesem

    S/b some things are worse than death in traditional Japanese culture.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  91. SarahW @88

    Tapper himself had to “correct” a student who asked question of Nelson, because the question, Tapper said, had been meant to be asked of the NRA rep.

    This is plain evidence the student had not crafted his own question, as he did not even know to whom it was supposed to be addressed.

    Well, that could be a rule violation – any question about X had to be addressed to the NRA rep. Not necessarily that they wrote the quesiton for hoim. Could also be they knew the question in advance.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  92. There should be no rules as to waht disqualified a person, just who

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  93. Let’s applaud the financial Freedumbsbthat grift everyone of us, laughing at our stupidity.

    Chris Arnold reports for NPR that Mulvaney forced the agency to drop a lawsuit against alleged loan-shark outfit Golden Valley Lending. Arnold found a Golden Valley victim named Julie Bonenfant, from Detroit, who needed money after a breakup and having her car stolen led to falling behind on rent. Over the course of a year, Bonenfant paid $3,735 to Golden Valley for a $900 loan. “A key backer of Golden Valley was recently convicted of racketeering charges in a case involving another online lender, according to court documents,” reports Arnold.

    A spokesperson for Mulvaney told Arnold that the decision to drop the case against Golden Valley, which CFPB staff had spent years building, was made by the agency’s staffers themselves. Staffers denied this wildly implausible defense, and Mulvaney’s spokesperson eventually retracted it.

    That, at any rate, is a ground-level picture of the changes in government Trump has ushered in. A massive shift in power and resources is underway, from consumers and workers to business owners. The natural confluence of interest between Trump’s inclination as a proprietor of business scams, and the laissez-faire instincts of his partisan allies, is a golden age for corporate crime.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/the-trump-administration-is-a-golden-age-for-corporate-crime.html

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  94. @96 – Yes. Next question.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  95. http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/22/watch-cnns-anti-gun-town-hall-go-completely-off-rails/

    Sammy, you’ve got to be kidding.

    This was a scripted event worthy of Goebbels or Stalin. Calling Tapper anything other than a propagandist is lying.

    NJRob (b00189)

  96. Drew McCoy
    @_Drew_McCoy_
    Just tuned into CNN for a minute to see how they are covering the fact that the cop sat on his ass while children were slaughtered.

    Nothing yet. Still all gun control.

    — –

    Jake Tapper
    @jaketapper
    Why won’t Dems back ban on semi-automatic weapons?

    — –

    Mary Katharine Ham
    @mkhammer
    If you wish to ban semi-automatic long guns, and even handguns, as many of my respondents do, say it loud & clear, run on it, convince people, stand for your convictions. Spend more time on that than demanding the rest of us do it for you.

    harkin (8256c3)

  97. Russians were doping their curling athletes?

    WTF?

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  98. J. K. Keck
    @_jkkeck
    Replying to @DavidAFrench and @EsotericCD
    You know how they say there are no atheists in fox holes? The last thing a pundit should be judging is anyone’s response to a potentially fatal situation.

    — –

    Jonah Goldberg
    @JonahNRO
    Wait a second. So it’s okay for kids and pundits alike to say that GOP politicians are essentially accomplices to mass slaughter and the moral equivalent of mass murderers, but we have no right to judge an armed officer who stood idly by while kids were literally murdered?

    harkin (8256c3)

  99. What else will we find out tomorrow

    https://mobile.twitter.com/scottbix/status/966832499568586752?p=v

    narciso (d1f714)

  100. 102.Russians were doping their curling athletes?

    Stoners.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. I have no respect for tapper, and it stems from Florida 2000, so what happens when every single link of the guardrails were down.

    narciso (d1f714)

  102. CNN will continue seeing its ratings tank as they drift even further left.

    Sad.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  103. I keep saying the beliefs of one’s desired social circle almost universally determines the values and beliefs of the individual.

    Tapper slapper (71f7f0)

  104. The beatings will contuse, coronellontill their morale improves

    narciso (d1f714)

  105. Sure, I am going to put 20 unscripted kids on prime time TV asking questions of people I hate that I want to destroy without formulating those same questions. Because Tide Pod Generation makes for stimulating debate and ratings.

    … Oh man, people today will believe anything they want to believe.

    Tapper slapper (71f7f0)

  106. Another Scott Peterson? There’s one on death row for killing his wife in California. And we have a Drew Peterson (also a hick cop) in Illinois’s equivalent for killing his wife/wives.

    nk (dbc370)

  107. Then there is mike pwtersen, the former thriller writer and murderer in north carolina

    narciso (d1f714)

  108. Tapper is a newsman, but he also falls off his newsman perch and into punditry more than I am comfortable with in a ‘newsman’.

    Rich (de9149)

  109. So this yellow bastard Peterson was armed and hid, while unarmed Aaron Feis threw himself in front of his students to protect them. A gun without a man is just a useless hunk of iron, but a man without a gun is still a man.

    nk (dbc370)

  110. 109, true that, narciso

    In unrelated news, there but for teh grace of God and good old fashioned common sense, go we… https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWptthHWsAIwqPc.jpg

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  111. Scott Peterson was also a brand of hot dog sold in Chicago and nearby states. And Joliet cop working for Bolingbrook is “hick”? Maybe slurb…(think a nicer Inland Empire or those big Dallas suburbs).

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  112. Let me put it this way: A journalist worthy of the esteem our host has accorded Jake Tapper in this post would not have participated in CNN’s Town Hall of Hate and Ignorance last night.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  113. Ok speaking of Playboy what do Johann Sebastian Bach and Ringo Starr have in common?

    Wives named Barbara.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  114. What was the point of the consimdr bureau, itwas supposed to prevent another massive crackup, the fact that mf global want deterred I. The least is the evidence.

    narciso (d1f714)

  115. Handgun Control? That’s a two-handed grip.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  116. This is the sane tapper who was aide to congresswoman mezvinsly and wasatt of handgun cpntril:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/annihilation-10-strange-sci-fi-books-should-screen

    narciso (d1f714)

  117. And Joliet cop working for Bolingbrook is “hick”?

    Hick cop.

    nk (dbc370)

  118. TheBas, mentally ill is what the court determines after sworn testimony from experts and those who know the subject. Iow the way courts do it now to protect spouses and others who are stalked or threatened

    Patricia (3363ec)

  119. I’ve referenced stross and Higgins innthe past.

    narciso (d1f714)

  120. I think that when you are getting Social Security for mental disability (as opposed to physical disability), that’s “mentally ill” enough for not being allowed to own a gun. Which was an Obama regulation that Congress repealed by statute. But to the politically correct, it’s better to take away everybody’s gun than to “stigmatize the mentally ill”.

    nk (dbc370)

  121. 107.CNN will continue seeing its ratings tank as they drift even further left.

    Sad.

    CNN Gun Control Town Hall Draws 2.9 Million Viewers

    CNN’s town hall special “Stand Up: The Students of Stoneman Douglas Demand Action” lifted CNN head and shoulders above their cable news competition in the Nielsen ratings on Wednesday night.

    Airing from 9 p.m.-11 p.m. [EST], the town hall drew 2.91 million total viewers. In the same time frame, Fox News averaged 2.45 million and MSNBC averaged 2.31 million. In addition, CNN was also ahead in the key adults 25-54 demographic, with the network nabbing 1.1 million viewers in that demo. That is nearly double Fox News’ haul of 533,000 and more than double MSNBC’s 490,000.

    The gun control discussion also resonated with younger viewers, with CNN pulling in 310,000 viewers in the adults 18-34 demo. MSNBC averaged 78,000 in that demo in the same time frame while Fox News averaged 48,000. For the month to date, Fox News is averaging 87,000 viewers during primetime in 18-34, while CNN is averaging 74,000 and MSNBC is averaging 70,000. That means that CNN nearly quadrupled their average during the town hall.

    http://variety.com/2018/tv/news/cnn-gun-control-town-hall-ratings-1202707792

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. The man who reported Cruz, Ben Bennight, spoke with the FBI last year for about 20 minutes, and there was no follow-up from the FBI after that initial conversation.

    Then, Bennight told CBS that he again spoke with the FBI on Wednesday night for about 20 minutes. They wanted to know if he knew anything more after first reporting the YouTube video last year. He said the same agent/agents he spoke with last year came to his home Wednesday.

    And last month, the FBI was warned a second time about Cruz:

    “A person close to” Cruz called the agency’s tipline on Jan. 5 and reported the 19-year-old had a “desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts” and there was “potential of him conducting a school shooting,” the FBI said in a statement. -NY Post

    Furthermore, as we reported earlier today, CNN’s FOIA of Broward County 911 records has produced a steady stream of scoops about Parkland, Fla. school shooter Nikolas Cruz fleshing out much of what is publicly known about Cruz’s background and the various reports made warning the FBI and other authorities about his threatening behavior.

    The police were warned about Cruz’s violent past – that he’d “used a gun against people before” and had “put the gun to others’ heads in the past” – but still they did nothing.

    No wonder Sheriff Israel is beside himself – both the FBI, the Broward County Sheriff’s office, and the armed school resource officer did absolutely nothing to prevent the deaths of 17 students. And now, back to blaming guns.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-22/he-never-went-officer-duty-filmed-doing-nothing-during-florida-shooting

    harkin (8256c3)

  123. Let me put it this way: A journalist worthy of the esteem our host has accorded Jake Tapper in this post would not have participated in CNN’s Town Hall of Hate and Ignorance last night.

    That may be. I just don’t feel qualified to opine because I didn’t watch it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  124. So does that mean higher rates for video game ads and lower rates for ED drug ads on CNN?

    nk (dbc370)

  125. Peterson was not “doing nothing.” He was hiding.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  126. What happens after the state takes away your guns.

    Hiding in the toilet from the gunmen.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  127. A journalist who is has been an advocate on an issue ought to mention it. A network who prevents a student from ranting at someone ought to shut down an opposing student who actually DOES rant at someone. Two big errors, and they are both Tapper’s.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  128. File this under “that’s not very nice…”

    “The punks fled. The hero went to the hospital to have his wounds cleaned.

    “Fear is not part of my vocabulary,” he later said.

    I’m as taken with this guy and his uncommon valor as the liberal Republican cucks are with Jake Tapper and his courageous retweeting of the stupid things they write on Twitter (while never actually bringing up any of these points on his actual tv show).”

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/373986.php

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  129. CNN playing into, indulging their naivety. Just like Amon Goth instilling a sense of culpability in his victims.

    papertiger (c8116c) — 2/22/2018 @ 2:03 pm

    I’ve never seen Schindler’s List. How does it stack up against Next of Kin?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  130. 126… ASPCA misses the rest of the story… as usual…

    For January 2018:

    Cable News Top 10 (Total Viewers)
    Hannity (3,269,000)
    Rachel Maddow Show (3,033,000)
    Tucker Carlson Tonight (2,982,000)
    The Ingraham Angle (2,576,000)
    The Five (2,545,000)
    Special Report With Bret Baier (2,514,000)
    Last Word With Lawrence O’Donnell (2,354,000)
    The Story With Martha MacCallum (2,319,000)
    All In With Chris Hayes (1,994,000)
    America’s Newsroom (1,805,000)

    Cable News Top 10 (A25-54)
    The Rachel Maddow Show (678,000)
    Hannity (660,000)
    Tucker Carlson Tonight (597,000)
    Last Word With Lawrence O’Donnell (518,000)
    The Ingraham Angle (504,000)
    Special Report With Bret Baier (470,000)
    The Five (468,000)
    All In With Chris Hayes (436,000)
    Anderson Cooper 360 (392,000)
    Cuomo Prime Time (392,000)

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  131. Next of Kin is really just a prequel to Taken.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  132. They should make a show about that security guard.

    Scott Peterson is Branded“.

    Marked with a coward’s shame!

    I like the concept. They make a big to do when a cop stands his ground with medals and ribbons. The mayor giving him a key.
    Should be something equal in the other direction for a performance like Peterson’s.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  133. papertiger:

    No, no, no those are not Trumpaloes, those are Buffaloes, which are actually Liberal-Democrat herd-beasts, substandard and inferior in every way.

    You can tell because they bellow like fools, follow one incompetent pelosi-leader after another over cliffs, are hairy, dirty and smell bad, crap in public spaces and allow themselves to be driven absolutely crazy by real Trumpaloes.

    The herd bull of the Trumpaloes, the @RealDonaldTrumpalo, can, by tweetering like a small bird, send thousands of them running over Head-Smashed-In Buffalo jump to theri intellectual and political doom.

    But they do taste good.

    Fred Z (05d938)

  134. You’ve never seen Schindler’s list? Should I append spoiler alerts?

    First time I saw it was the theatrical release. Must have been movie night at the Orthodox synagogue of Sacramento. The house was packed. Don’t know it for a certain fact, but if I had to bet I put money I was the only gentile in the place.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  135. Naw, you have to imagine the buffalo’s wearing MAGA rugs.

    The big buffalo about ready to run over the indian kid, that was Bill O’Reilly getting shot down by the Hollywood liberal hypocrite who is only against other people owning guns.

    It all makes sense when you look at it right.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  136. I’ve been trying to write a “minimum qualifications test” for meaningful and good-faith participation in any discussion on gun control, as in: If you can’t pass both parts of this test — one about the state of existing law after Heller, and the other about the guns you’re trying to regulate — you’re not worth my time or trouble to talk to, pro-gun-control person.

    Here’s my list so far. I’m open to improvements and additions to both parts, especially the ones about guns. Note well: several of these multiple choice questions are intentionally designed to include nonsensical choices that I nevertheless expect would draw confident (and wrong) answers.

    —–

    1. Justice Scalia’s majority opinion for the Supreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller (2008) overturned a District of Columbia law that prohibited the registration, for lawful carrying, of all —

    (a) shotguns;
    (b) rifles;
    (c ) assault rifles;
    (d) handguns; or
    (e) none of the above.

    2. Heller established that the Second Amendment to the Constitution —
    (a) creates an individual right to keep and bear arms;
    (b) creates a collective right to keep and bear arms if, and only if, one is a member of a state militia;
    (c ) creates no rights at all, because modern guns are unlike guns in the time of the Founders;
    (d) specifically authorizes every citizen to own a fully-automatic weapon so long as it is for home defense; or
    (e) none of the above.

    3. After Heller, whatever Second Amendment rights might exist —
    (a) can be overriden by state legislatures and city councils who disagree;
    (b) can be overriden by state legislatures with the concurrence of state governors, as heads of state militias;
    (c ) must be implemented by Act of Congress before they have any binding legal effect;
    (d) can be overriden by Congress provided that it is a bipartisan vote and the President goes along; or
    (e) none of the above.

    4. After Heller, whatever Second Amendment rights might exist —
    (a) are unlimited, and include the right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever and for whatever purpose;
    (b) are unlimited, except by the state governor as commander, but only for so long as you’re a member in a state militia;
    (c ) are not unlimited, and are not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever and for whatever purpose;
    (d) are not unlimited, and can be taken or restricted whenever a state or the federal government can show a rational purpose for doing so; or
    (e) expired on September 13, 2014, with the sunsetting of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.

    5. Most gun violence in the United States is committed with —
    (a) assault rifles;
    (b) fully-automatic shotguns;
    (c ) full-automatic, silenced revolvers;
    (d) other handguns; or
    (e) shotguns.

    6. At 30 yards using the most common ammunition for that type of weapon, a large mammal struck in the chest will likely sustain the most tissue damage from a round fired by —
    (a) a .223 caliber AR-15 style semi-automatic weapon;
    (b) a 30-06 caliber AR-15 style semi-automatic weapon;
    (c ) a 9mm semi-automatic handgun, like a Glock 17;
    (d) a .38 caliber revolver; or
    (e) a 9mm assault Luger.

    7. The type of .223 AR-15 style rifle used by the Parkland shooter —
    (a) fires one round with each pull of the trigger;
    (b) fires each round in its magazine with a single pull of the trigger so long as you hold the trigger down;
    (c ) fires a three-round burst with a single pull of the trigger;
    (d) alternates between (b) and (c ) based on how the selector switch is set; or
    (e) none of the above.

    8. Replacing a detachable magazine on a semi-automatic weapon and chambering a new round takes the average shooter —
    (a) less than five seconds;
    (b) less than 60 seconds;
    (c ) less than two minutes;
    (d) up to five minutes, unless it’s an assault rifle; or
    (e) depends on how many casings are in the clip.

    Beldar (fa637a)


  137. I would like to converse paper tiger but first I want you to apologize for your smear against Eric Clapton declaring his need for the solace of lyrics, arrangement and performance was motivated solely by the cash.

    Ben burn (7d2e65) — 2/22/2018 @ 2:13 pm

    I think it was BB King who said he didn’t get paid to play, he got paid to travel.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  138. Intended key for #141:
    1 – d;
    2 – a;
    3 – e;
    4 – c;
    5 – d;
    6 – b;
    7 – a;
    8 – a

    Beldar (fa637a)

  139. Clapton has been such a self serving prick, that he’ll never get to Heaven.

    papertiger (c8116c) — 2/22/2018 @ 2:32 pm

    Was George Harrison his kid’s godsfather?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  140. And Putin, the NRA, and the killing machines gun industry all smiled.

    Tillman (a95660) — 2/22/2018 @ 3:09 pm

    No, you’re thinking about the guy who called The Virginian an SOB.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  141. More re my #141:

    In 6(b) I meant to write “30-06 caliber deer hunting rifle.” (That you can buy an AR-style rifle in that caliber is a subject for its own question, perhaps.)

    In case it’s not obvious: My attempt is to craft choices that use mis-used or meaningless buzz-phrases from the anti-gun control side and which will seem plausible to idiots from the Left who are making guesses based on that propaganda.

    Reaching out to my gunny friends here.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  142. Yes, yes, you can buy and AR-style rifle in .30-06. In fact, it is not merely AR-style, it is an actual Armalite design by Eugene Stoner.

    nk (dbc370)

  143. But moment, please. What if the 9mm assault Luger was thrown by Justin Verlander from thirty yards?

    nk (dbc370)

  144. It’s this kind of crap that has me at the end of all my patience tonight: What I Saw Treating the Victims From Parkland Should Change the Debate on Guns, subhead “They weren’t the first victims of a mass shooting the Florida radiologist had seen—but their wounds were radically different,” from TheAtlantic.com.

    She discloses that most of the gunshot wounds she’s seen as a radiologist have been handgun wounds. Of course; that makes total sense, given all of the relevant statistics.

    But she then pretends that the entire world should be surprised — that we must change the debate on guns!!! — because the rifle wounds she saw in the Parkland victims were much, much, tear-jerkingly worse.

    She has no discussion — zero — of how these wounds from a .223 caliber AR-style rifle would compare to wounds from the same distance from your average 12-gauge shotgun or your average 30-06 semi-automatic deer hunting rifle. (Nor of course how these might compare if the AR-style rifle had been calibrated instead for .22 caliber or .50 caliber rounds.) No, she wants us to ban all AR-15s, however we’re supposed to figure out what those actually are, because they made worse wounds than the average handgun wounds she’s seen.

    Oh, and at the end, she threw in large-capacity magazines. She wants to ban them too.

    I saw this article reproduced all over FB today by people saying, “If only the NRA would stop and read something like this, they’d realize they’re all child murderers and [yada yada yada] peace on earth forever!!!1!”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  145. Hoagie, Reagan was surrounded by secret service men, who of course were well trained and armed. He still got shot.

    Tillman (a95660) — 2/22/2018 @ 3:40 pm

    Obama got on an elevator with an armed felon. But Jody Foster wasn’t his jam.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)


  146. I would like to converse paper tiger but first I want you to apologize for your smear against Eric Clapton declaring his need for the solace of lyrics, arrangement and performance was motivated solely by the cash.

    Ben burn (7d2e65) — 2/22/2018 @ 2:13 pm

    I said his motivation was feeling sorry for himself. The cash was a by product of his being really good at that. Get it right, Donkey.

    Conor the four year old who fell out of a New York skyscraper window in an apartment belonging to whomever Eric Clapton had foisted his responsabilities off onto that day, was the progeny of an Italian fashion model Clapton had been cheating with, never married her, not George Harrison’s ex wife, whom he was married to at the time.

    Why am I still talking about this guy, who would crap on all that is good and right if he thought it would save him a nickle in royalties?

    [Edit] him with a crowbar.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  147. S/b some things are worse than death in traditional Japanese culture.

    Ben burn (7d2e65) — 2/22/2018 @ 4:40 pm

    Unpixelated genitals?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  148. No, Obama did not get on the elevator with an armed felon. The man had no convictions, and there was no indication that he was carrying unlawfully. He just was not supposed to be armed in The Presence. Then Republican assholes, see e.g. Jason Chaffetz (R-Dukakis), got the poor guy fired just to embarrass Obama and his Secret Service detail.

    nk (dbc370)

  149. nk: Before they were the Astros, our local pro baseball team were the Colt ’45s.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  150. Err, .45s. (1962-1964, pre-Astrodome.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  151. Drew McCoy
    @_Drew_McCoy_
    Just tuned into CNN for a minute to see how they are covering the fact that the cop sat on his ass while children were slaughtered.

    Nothing yet. Still all gun control.

    — –

    To Jefferson County SD: “I learned it from watching you!”

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  152. 152, add to that a 1:1 or 1:1+x male to female ratio. That Bukkakke crap gotta go.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  153. No, Obama did not get on the elevator with an armed felon. The man had no convictions, and there was no indication that he was carrying unlawfully. He just was not supposed to be armed in The Presence. Then Republican assholes, see e.g. Jason Chaffetz (R-Dukakis), got the poor guy fired just to embarrass Obama and his Secret Service detail.

    nk (dbc370) — 2/22/2018 @ 9:17 pm

    Correction taken, mr nk. Like this lawyer in a Herman cartoon from years back said, “Your honor, my client has a perfect record. 88 arrests and no convictions.” But thank you.

    I think my point may have actually been that with Reagan the SS did almost everything right and with Obama and the elevator and Columbian putas etc that it’s amazing nothing bad happened.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  154. Hey maybe we can prune back sovereign immunity back a bit. Lon Horiuchai, the Fed who got his gun stolen in SF that killed Kate Steinle, the people who let the Texas church shooter fall thru the background check cracks and these FBI clowns in FL.

    Is there a legislative solution to settle some cop a$$es in slings?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  155. Another Scott Peterson? There’s one on death row for killing his wife in California. And we have a Drew Peterson (also a hick cop) in Illinois’s equivalent for killing his wife/wives.

    nk (dbc370) — 2/22/2018 @ 6:27 pm

    “I think I found wife number fife.” Rob Lowe as Drew Peterson LMN

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  156. If 22 year old blonds are attacking your school Drew Peterson will take them out…at least three times before he sleeps with them.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  157. After watching the CNN spectacle, all I can say is, the Sheriff has got to go. All I could think of was Strother Martin in Cool Hand Luke.

    “The police need more money, the fire, and the teachers need more money!!” Wild cheering, applause.

    The audience screaming invective at all Republicans and anyone who offered any differing opinion or fact.

    It’s a crazy world. We had a sane world at one time, but the left didn’t like that, so now it’s gone. Gone baby gone.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  158. For a while there military {particularly the British} rounds were purposely weighted to tumble once they hit flesh, so to cause extra catastrophic damage.

    That was before the Geneva Conventions. Now anti-personel rounds are full metal jacket, so that in theory they make a nice straight easy to repair line through people.

    Same goes for all ammo sold in California. Due to recent legislation lead balls for hunting is verboden.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  159. Sigh. Everything papertiger wrote in his comment 163 is [edited].

    Look at a supersonic jet and look at a modern nuclear submarine. The ideal shape for traveling at supersonic speeds through air is the opposite of the ideal shape for traveling through water. A bullet which was flying perfectly happily and content nose first through the air, now hits a medium which is 65% (or is it 85%?) liquid. All of a sudden, the best way to travel is the base first. So it starts to tumble. It’s true of all high velocity, spitzer-boat-tailed bullets. Whether it’s even more true of the .223 because of its cross-sectional density, I don’t know and I don’t care.

    And it’s perfectly legal under the General Convention. What’s illegal is dum-dums — soft-pointed bullets that expand or disintegrate.

    nk (dbc370)

  160. *Geneva* Convention

    nk (dbc370)

  161. @135. =Haiku!= Gesundheit.

    It’s February.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  162. the original treaty making a requirement for Armies to use a bullet that did not fulminate, expand or flatten was the Declaration of Saint Petersburg of 1868, which preceded the development of the Full Metal Jacket by twelve years.

    Hmmm. As much as I hage being wrong… But how disappointed would nk be if he didn’t get to correct my error? Pretty disappointed.

    Declaration of Saint Petersburg – now there’s an unexpected source of civility.

    http://www.weaponslaw.org/assets/downloads/1868_St_Petersburg_Declaration.pdf

    papertiger (c8116c)

  163. Tapper is a stooge with bias so far up his azz, his nostrils are brown.

    mg (9abf8b)

  164. @141. When the bad guys are running scared down a blind alley from the good guys, they always tip over a few garbage cans before they surrender to fate or try for the big shoot out.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  165. And it’s perfectly legal under the General Convention. What’s illegal is dum-dums — soft-pointed bullets that expand or disintegrate.

    nk (dbc370) — 2/22/2018 @ 10:11 pm

    Which in turn is mandatory for Game and Fish.

    Pinandpuller (bf7a89)

  166. First time I saw it was the theatrical release. Must have been movie night at the Orthodox synagogue of Sacramento. The house was packed. Don’t know it for a certain fact, but if I had to bet I put money I was the only gentile in the place.

    papertiger (c8116c) — 2/22/2018 @ 7:52 pm

    I’m more of a Defiance kind of guy.

    Pinandpuller (bf7a89)

  167. In court filings, Texas officials have claimed qualified immunity, a legal doctrine that protects law enforcement officials.
    Palacios’ ranch is situated at the 35-mile marker due north from Laredo, along Interstate 35, just three miles south of the small town of Encinal. The nearest US-Mexico border crossing is at Laredo.
    The precise distance between the border and Palacios’ ranch matters: under federal law, agents can go onto private property that is within 25 miles of the border “for the purpose of patrolling the border to prevent the illegal entry of aliens into the United States.”

    In other words, if Palacios’ ranch were within that range, he likely wouldn’t have a case.

    This is related to, but distinct from, the 100-mile radius that the CBP claims it can operate in and warrantlessly stop people and search bags, cars, electronic devices, and more. This is commonly referred to as the “border exception” to the Fourth Amendment, which protects against warrantless searches and seizures. (There is currently a lawsuit over border searches of electronic devices underway in federal court in Massachusetts: Alasaad v. Duke.)

    As Palacios alleges in the civil complaint, his interactions with CBP began in April 2010 when his two sons were stopped at a checkpoint along I-35. When one son, Ricardo Palacios Jr., refused to answer questions, he was taken to a secondary inspection where he was assaulted by a CBP officer. Eventually, after being detained for 90 minutes, he was driven home to the ranch just a few miles away.

    Over the next several years, CBP agents roamed “freely about, day or night” on the Palacios ranch, despite his numerous efforts to protest. He even sent a formal letter to a regional CBP supervisor on April 9, 2010. However, the letter doesn’t seem to have made any substantive difference.

    A cycle of CBP agents making incursions onto the ranch and Palacios telling them to leave continued for years—that is, until he found the camera.

    Man removes feds’ spy cam, they demand it back, he refuses and sues

    Pinandpuller (bf7a89)

  168. It’s hard to find anything that doesn’t go back to Breitbart, sorry:

    At the end of the latest legislation session Gov. Jerry Brown (D) signed a bill removing mandatory enhanced sentencing for criminals who use guns in the commission of their crimes.

    He did this at the same time that he signed other legislation making it illegal for teachers to be armed on K-12 campuses for self-defense.

    Liberal logic–teachers are not allowed to shoot back if under attack and criminals face no mandatory sentence enhancement for using a gun in carrying out an attack.

    Assembly Bill 424 made it illegal for teachers to be armed for self-defense and Senate Bill 620 removed the mandatory enhancement for using a gun for crime. SB 620 removed the mandatory enhancement from the Penal Code and placed it at the discretion of the judge presiding over the case.

    The ChicoER observed, “So on one hand Brown and the Legislature make it more difficult for a teacher to protect children against gun-wielding criminals, while on the other they reduce potential penalties for gun-wielding criminals.”

    Reposted by Jewscanshoot

    Pinandpuller (bf7a89)

  169. Apparently Mr. Trump believes ‘active shooter drills’ are a scary and negative experience for today’s school kids.

    Whereas warm and glowing memories of classroom ‘duck and cover’ drills for a thermonuclear attack were–and are becoming of late again– a much more positive experience, eh, Captain, sir!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  170. Does anyone know when David Hogg’s pal Ripley is getting shot into space?

    Pinandpuller (bf7a89)

  171. 166… best you got? Lol

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  172. Wait till they get plasma rifles and railguns, disco thinks he is clever.

    narciso (d1f714)

  173. And then there’s this guy… https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWnnIszUQAAKgXv.jpg

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  174. @177. =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    Truth usually is. LOL

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  175. So you really don’t understand how viewership/ratings are tracked. Good to know… amusing as well!

    Colonel Haiku (bd4dc3)

  176. ‘On the political front, it is painfully obvious that CNN used the students who witnessed the killing as props in what amounted to a staged public execution of the NRA and GOP politicians. Colton Haab, the heroic ROTC student, stands by his claim that CNN gave him a scripted question and identifies Fake Jake Flapper-Tapper’s producer, one Carrie Stevenson, as the person in question. CNN continues to deny this and claims that Haab wanted to use his time to give a speech and was refused. All things considered, I tend to believe Haab since, after all, “this is CNN.” ‘

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/373992.php

    Colonel Haiku (bd4dc3)

  177. CNN’s town halls are anything but.
    They are stage managed to persuade the rest of the country that this is the town and these are the questions and these are the feelings – not any sort of real community meeting, with rules of order, where those educated by book or by experience can inform a controversy or question those placed into a position of authority or power.

    Wide liberties with the definition of “Town Hall” allowed, CNN does worse than that. It doesn’t simply arrange select questions, it puts them in the mouths of those who have no idea what or who they are asking, and stuff socks in the mouths of those who have their own question.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  178. 141. 143,. I didn’t guess at #6 and I thought all the answers on 1 werw wrong as I thoiught DC banned the registration of all firearms.

    Vincent Foster broke that law, but he wasn’t shot with his own gun since that gun was stull in his home and found by his wife. It’s pure speculation that he possessed another gun.

    Curiously, or actually not curiously, the Clinton spin machine has never mentioned that any gun that Foster would ahe shot himself with was illegal.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  179. 100. I didn’t watch it. I just think it might not have been 100% scripted nd that Colton Haaband CNN might not actually be disagreeing about anything.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  180. Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson took early retirement – he did not resign as some news articles had it.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  181. With each passing day, it appears Beldar has the better of this argument. Where are the disavowals by Tapper?

    Even if Tapper is “better” than most, he is still a bad actor. A bad actor is, by definition, still a bad actor.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  182. Here’s the transcript of the townhall: https://t.co/VmQFIf32Ww

    Tapper is no different than the other scoundrels in the agenda-driven, Democrat Operatives with bylines media.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  183. The quality of some reasoning is so bad.

    Here
    s sopmeone arguing taht threatening to punish student protesters who skip classes by banning them from classes is absurd.

    http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/22/school-chief-threatens-to-punish-student

    No more absurd than would be firing striking workers.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  184. what part of nonviolence did they miss:

    https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/968332393659666432

    narciso (d1f714)


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