Patterico's Pontifications


A Few Trump Items

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:54 pm

[guest post by Dana]

The New York Times is reporting that at least 20 pages in a Trump Institute real estate seminar manual were plagiarized :

Trump Institute copyrighted its publication, each page emblazoned with “Billionaire’s Road Map to Success,” and it distributed the materials to those who attended the seminar.

Yet much of the handbook’s contents were lifted without attribution from an obscure how-to guide published by Success magazine in 1995 called “Real Estate Mastery System.”

At least 20 pages of the Trump Institute book were copied entirely or in large part from “Real Estate Mastery System.” Even some of it’s hypothetical scenarios – “Seller A is asking $80,000 for a single-family residence” – were repeated verbatim.


It should be noted, according to the report, that while Trump owned 93% of Trump University, the Trump Institute was owned and operated by get-rich-quick marketing couple, Irene and Mike Milin. Due to complaints and lawsuits filed against them, the sketchy couple received an “F” rating from the Better Business Bureau. Yet, as the NYT points out, Trump “lent his name, and his credibility to a seminar business he did not own, which was branded the Trump Institute”. People were charged $2,000 to hear Trump’s – not the Milin’s – “wealth-creating secrets” at these seminars.

Trump’s lawyer, Alan Garten, responded to the report, telling the NYT that Trump “obviously” did not know about the plagiarism, and then defended the program:

I stand by the curriculum that was taught at both Trump University and Trump Institute.

Also, the latest Rasumussen National Poll came out with a turn of good polling news for Trump. He now has a 4-point lead over Hillary Clinton:

Last week at this time, it was Clinton 44%, Trump 39%. This is Trump’s highest level of support in Rasmussen Reports’ matchups with Clinton since last October. His support has been hovering around the 40% mark since April, but it remains to be seen whether he’s just having a good week or this actually represents a real move forward among voters.

Trump now earns 75% support among his fellow Republicans and picks up 14% of the Democratic vote. Seventy-six percent (76%) of Democrats like Clinton, as do 10% of GOP voters.


And finally, this is just bizarre. Donald Trump spoke before a crowd in Manchester, NH today. After ticking off manufacturing jobs lost to Mexico and China, and discussing the WTO, NAFTA, TPP and trade deficits, Trump made the following statement (while pointing up at a plane which can be heard):

Mexico, and I respect Mexico, I respect their leaders. What they’ve done to us is incredible. Their leaders are so much smarter, so much sharper, and it’s incredible. In fact, that could be a Mexican plane up there, they’re getting ready to attack.

You can watch the full speech here (for context, start at the 3:00 minute mark).

And if all of this isn’t enough for you, you can always go here to read about the crazy naked man in Times Square screaming for Donald Trump, among others.


138 Responses to “A Few Trump Items”

  1. Yikes.

    Dana (995455)

  2. In fact, that could be a Mexican plane up there, they’re getting ready to attack.

    Demented. Happy Trumpkins?

    And who in the name of Quetzalcoatl did Rasmussen poll?

    nk (dbc370)

  3. My favorite part of the plagiarism is that they didn’t even bother to update 1995 prices to 2006 housing values. A huge percentage of PhD theses are thought to be at least partly nicked from some other source, but usually the plagiarist has enough initiative to make superficial changes so that it’s hard to detect.

    JVW (eabb2a)

  4. Hillary’s going to keep America mediocre again.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  5. shirley they can’t be serious, unless it’s a change in real estate regulation, of which they are legion, the examples stay the same,

    narciso (732bc0)

  6. Shirley, you can’t be serious. The point is that the example was copied word for word, number for number, comma for comma.

    nk (dbc370)

  7. Sorry, my mistake. Trump Institute added a comma in the second sentence, following the Oxford rule for commas before conjunctions.

    nk (dbc370)

  8. I’m a fan of the Oxford comma. Was Trump making a joke regarding the Mexican plane?? He did sound like it, and did not seem to signal that it was. No smile or chuckle. I’m confused. But then, it would seem he is too.

    Dana (995455)

  9. A huge percentage of PhD theses are thought to be at least partly nicked from some other source, but usually the plagiarist has enough initiative to make superficial changes so that it’s hard to detect.

    JVW (eabb2a) — 6/30/2016 @ 7:18 pm

    Or run it through it through any of the many Online Plagiarism checkers available.

    Dana (995455)

  10. narciso, have you read any of the Chance Purdue books by Ross H. Spencer? They’re in the first person, by a dull-witted private eye who lives in my neighborhood in Chicago, and the only punctuation he knows is capitals and periods.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. don’t know him, that last tag hand me the neuralizer, shows ‘when the going gets weird, the weird go pro,’ well that is the nature of these crazy year, @rah,

    where three putative world leaders get together to talk about a non existent threat, and ignore a real one. where no one asks the third one, how he solved his migrant problem, where the minister of defense is warbling about transgender soldiers, because our military has solved all other problems, where papa warbucks mozillo just got off entirely scot free,

    narciso (732bc0)

  12. different strokes for different folks,

    I do recall there was a bit of a row some years ago, I forget about whom,

    narciso (732bc0)

  13. Silly Donald! It wasn’t a plane, it was a black stealth helicopter from the Trilateral Commission/UN. Or Tralfamadorians.

    Hail the Clown-in-Chief! Huzzah! [fart noises & rimshot]

    Beldar (fa637a)

  14. About that “crazy naked man screaming for Trump” in New York: Anyone seen happyfeet today?


    gwjd (032bef)

  15. submitted without comment,

    stealth helicopters don’t make a sound, I’ve seen blue thunder, and airwolf.

    narciso (732bc0)

  16. Heh, thanks for that link, narciso. There’s this, too (apocryphal):

    Lawyer: “Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a pulse?”

    Witness: “No.”

    Lawyer: “Did you check for blood pressure?”

    Witness: “No.”

    Lawyer: “Did you check for breathing?”

    Witness: “No.”

    Lawyer: “So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began the autopsy?”

    Witness: “No.”

    Lawyer: “How can you be so sure, Doctor?”

    Witness: “Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar.”

    Lawyer: “But could the patient have still been alive nevertheless?”

    Witness: “Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing law somewhere.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  17. Same old story, same old song and dance…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  18. Have you guys ever heard of dying declarations by mortally wounded persons? Or aren’t they homicide victims yet? Smart-asses!

    nk (dbc370)

  19. you know there’s an irony, here about durbin,

    well besides he was aipac’s choice to take out percy, be careful what you wish for,

    narciso (732bc0)

  20. That would be “talked to police,” nk. But to the smartass part, I plead guilty. 😀

    Beldar (fa637a)

  21. Joe Biden

    Rodney King's Spirit (e2dd8e)

  22. Yawn, so some staffer plagiarizes a irrelevant book to make a manual and somehow this is important?

    Can you folks spend time on Hillary and Bill working over the AG?

    Rodney King's Spirit (e2dd8e)

  23. carlos slims is their new lodestone, the dog trainer has also gained new respect,

    narciso (732bc0)

  24. #24 Rodney King’s Spirit,

    No, they can’t.
    See, Trump supported Hillary in 2008. And that’s such a bad thing, that they have to support Hillary over Trump in 2016. Again, because Trump supported Hillary in 2008 … and nobody should have supported Hillary in 2008. But doing so in 2016 is permissable.
    It’s all like an Orwellian episode of “The Twilight Zone.”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  25. The clean my toilets cheap crowd needs the clintoon biotch to win so they don’t get their greedy hands dirty. Clintoon republicans love them some socialist b.s.

    mg (31009b)

  26. What kind of a idiot would strap a dog to the top of his car? A clinton republican.

    mg (31009b)

  27. What kind of idiot would trash Goldwater? A clinton republican. Conservative my azz.

    mg (31009b)

  28. Any chance you clinton lovers can write about your gal, Lynch?
    How people can not go ballistic over this is dumbfounding. I expect traitor ryan to back her and with his new leather knee pads to service her as well.

    mg (31009b)

  29. Follow teh money bullsh*t

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. No, they can’t.
    See, Trump supported Hillary in 2008. And that’s such a bad thing, that they have to support Hillary over Trump in 2016. Again, because Trump supported Hillary in 2008 … and nobody should have supported Hillary in 2008. But doing so in 2016 is permissable.
    It’s all like an Orwellian episode of “The Twilight Zone.”

    Cruz Supporter

    Yawn. You’ve burnt this straw man dozens of times now, even after it’s specifically explained that you’re mis-stating other people’s views. Bad faith.

    Trump’s sins go a lot farther than merely supporting Hillary in 2008, though his support of planned parenthood, gun control, amnesty, increasing the minimum wage, ethanol subsidies, the Tienanmen Square massacre, riots, and ugly stenciling all show that his true political views, before his shameless con for the GOP primary, is far to the left.

    You can either have Hillary or Trump, both have the same views on everything, and both are hopelessly corrupt. I don’t recall Hillary smearing Cruz’s wife and dad, nor do I recall Hillary ever being accused of rape. Trump even promotes Mike Tyson, who unlike Bill Clinton was convicted of raping someone.

    Furthermore, the conservative movement fighting the left is more effective than the conservative movement being led by the left because it fell for this stunt.

    There’s truly no reason to prefer Trump to Hillary except if your integrity stops at the (R).

    But go ahead and keep it up. Does anyone here think Cruz Supporter speaks with an ounce of integrity? It will be funny if Trump’s fans vouch for you after what you’ve said about them a few months back.

    The ‘never trump’ position can certainly be argued against, but it’s tedious to go from thread to thread and read your strawman holocaust.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  31. holocaust like what the stinky pig judges gonna do on them wiggly gigglies lol

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  32. What kind of a idiot would strap a dog to the top of his car? A clinton republican.

    yes yes he’s a sick and perverted man, mitt romney is

    no moral compass

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  33. How biased?

    When the kid was snatched by the gator @ Disney land, Disney’s first, and lets face it, only real countermeasure against it happening again, a FENCE, a CHAIN LINK FENCE built of sturdy posts and wire mesh was installed around the death trap lagoons, which should have been done 40 years ago.

    But the media, disinterested in reporting a story that helps Trump, even tangentally, morphs that into, DISNEY REMOVES GATORS FROM RIDES.

    Clinton’s corpes of democrats with bylines would rather it appear Disney is serving up babies for breakfast of alligators, than accidentally augment Trump’s position by reporting a story straight

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  34. Dustin, for quite a while you’ve been pushing the false position that There’s truly no reason to prefer Trump to Hillary except if your integrity stops at the (R).

    You erroneously claim that both Hillary and Trump have the same views on everything, and both are hopelessly corrupt. Do they have the same view of Benghazi, do they agree on immigration, or on Hillary’s homebrew server? Do they both support ObamaCare, or agree on how to secure our Southern border.

    No, they don’t, yet you continue to push an entirely false claim. Additionally, I’m not vouching for Cruz Supporter, he’s been as wrongheaded as you’ve been for quite a while now, but at least he’s looking ahead instead of kicking dead horses.

    ropelight (596f46)

  35. it’s like at the end of Terminator where the lil mexican boy says there’s a storm coming

    and pregnant frightened Sarah Connor looks down the road with determination

    “I know,” she says.

    (the storm is a metaphor)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  36. i like mr. The Donald because he will impose a litmus test on furriners

    if they want to come up to failmerica they’ll have to prove that they have failmerican values

    the men will all have to “go on same-sex dates”

    the women will all have to have been men before

    acta non verba

    that way we will be safe

    you cannot get more failmerican than that

    twoleftfeet (dbc370)

  37. I brought up Tim kaine, a likely red queen running mate, he’s colorless although not odorless, because this board went all macho grand over every dot and toddle in o’donnell’s expert report, with a few exceptions. How did that work out?

    narciso (732bc0)

  38. Dustin,

    The primaries are the primaries. They’re over now, and it’s time to be grown-ups about the general election. Once the primaries gauntlet is run, and a winner emerges, I vote for the GOP nominee because that person is inherently a preferable choice to the Dhimmicrat nominee. Even closeted liberals such as JOHN BOLTON and DICK CHENEY intend to vote for Trump over Clinton.

    Historically, probably the only time that a Democrat nominee was more conservative than a Republican nominee is the example of Grover Cleveland.
    Your assertion that Trump and Clinton are ‘the same’ on the issues and that she’s slightly preferable due to foreign policy and temperament is an assertion that has few people nodding their heads in agreement.
    If you believe supporting Hillary in 2008 was bad, the it becomes a very shaky tightrope to walk in order to excuse voting for her in 2016, particularly considering all of the terrible things she’s done in the past 8 years.

    By the way, a vote in a general election is not weighted for “passion” or for “style points.” Your unenthusiastic holding-your-nose vote for Hillary in November will count JUST THE SAME in the tabulations as Chelsea Clinton’s passionate enthusiastic vote for her Mother.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  39. 20. Paul the Bow-Tied Nerd Simon, took out Percy 12 years/2 elections before “Turban” Durbin – defender of the wooden bat for baseball. (Sorry, Sikhim).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  40. Percy the son-in-law. Have we had any Senators worth the walk to the precinct that you can remember? Except maybe for Fitzgerald and he gave it to Obama. I have always wondered what they blackmailed him with to get him to step out of the way.

    nk (dbc370)

  41. Trump’s sins go a lot farther than merely supporting Hillary in 2008, though his support of planned parenthood, gun control, amnesty, increasing the minimum wage, ethanol subsidies, the Tienanmen Square massacre, riots, and ugly stenciling all show that his true political views, before his shameless con for the GOP primary, is far to the left.

    Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/1/2016 @ 4:03 am

    Almost all of the policies in that (leaving out his bizarre remarks) probably describes the positions of several other of the GOP Pres. candidates this year. Maybe not Planned Parenthood support.

    Gerald A (76f251)

  42. Cruz Supporter should change its name (again) to Trump Supporter or Clinton Supporter, given its assertions that anything but support for one is support for the other.

    Quit trying to hide behind a name that implies the existence of other principles.

    Leviticus (61270c)

  43. Leviticus, Has Cruz Supporter by virtue of his realization that Trump won mean he is no longer respected as a human being? Or is there another reason you refer to him as “it”?

    I think “given its assertions that anything but support for one is support for the other” is an accurate observation. There are two kinds of support: active and passive. If all you do is badmouth Trump you are passive supporter of Hillary!, but when you badmouth Trump and refuse to vote for him you are taking an active roll in electing Hillary Clinton President of the United States and need to be held account. There’s nothing wrong with being #4Hillary! in and of itself, but trying to twist into a pretzel to deny it seems ludicrous. Embrace your inner communist.

    Quit trying to hide behind a name that implies the existence of other principles.

    Exactly what principles are implied by the name Leviticus? Unless your name really is Leviticus you would also be “trying to hide behind a name”. Eh?

    Rev. Hoagie® (0f4ef6)

  44. Y’know, reading the comments, no one could really tell what the main post was even about after about number 5. That horse has got to be as tender as veal by now.

    MrScience_ (cd3d49)

  45. 41. A “5-3-1″ points preference system, however, might be just the ticket in the early primary states. Might also facilitate a national presidential primary day or staging no more of 4 of them by broad region two weeks apart for a no more than 6-8 week total primary election cycle (South would still be first due to weather concerns elsewhere).

    43. Fitzgerald and his Fab 5 state assembly cohorts (O’Malley, Rauschenburger) are a pleasant but distant memory. Syverson foisted Alan Keyes upon us in that fateful year and Lauzen managed to become the current Kane County Board President.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  46. It should be noted, according to the report, that while Trump owned 93% of Trump University, the Trump Institute was owned and operated by get-rich-quick marketing couple, Irene and Mike Milin

    I wrote and discussed the fact that Trump did not originate this scam (based on what some else here in an earlier thread had linked to on Patterico) at comments 293-302 at:

    The article that everybody cites that mentions the Milins is:

    ….The couple created the “Trump Institute,” using much of the same pitch material and some of the same pitchmen.

    The launch of Trump Institute, in turn, paved the way for the later creation of the Trump University live seminar business, which continues to be one of the biggest scandals dogging
    Trump’s presidential campaign…

    Here is another ersion (from 2008) as to how this got started:

    …well. The original approach of Trump University was to have an “online school” staffed by real estate teachers who had significant formal training (Ph.D.’s) in the real estate and finance world.

    Because Trump University wasn’t extensively involved in in-person live trainings, Trump University licensed the Trump name to Mike and Irene Milin, two notorious characters in the real estate business. The Milins, who also run National Grants Conferences and are long-time promoters of “pitchfest” real estate events, paid a hefty sum to be able to use the name “Trump Institute” and began doing “road shows”, “pitch fests” and multi-day live seminars.

    Trump University realized that there was a lot of money to be made in live events, and so they began to do live trainings as well…

    This was before the fraudulant and/or overpricing nature of this was certain. The owner of this website was asking for information, and there are some replies.

    The New York Times seems to be kind of clarifying this.

    Anyway, so Trump called what he had Trump University, and it started out more honest, and the Milins ran a separate thing in Florida called the Trump Institute. I think that may not be part of the lawsuit against Trump. (the Milins had also protected themselves from lawsuits by I think, having their students sign a compulsory arbitration agreements)

    Sammy Finkelman (09e4a9)

  47. Well. In good faith. The topic of the post meandered after exonerating Mr. Trump by indictment of the get-rich-quick marketing couple, Irene and Mike.

    Pot luck.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  48. Hoagie,

    I don’t know Trump Supporter’s gender, which is why I used a gender neutral pronoun. Not ideal, but the Internet has its limitations.

    And my name is actually Levi. Leviticus was an occasional nickname.

    Leviticus (61270c)

  49. Now that we know Trump is a fraud (??), how much money did Bill tell Loretta he’d pledge from the Clinton Foundation to “donate” to the Barack Hussein Obama Presidential Library & Re-education Camp?

    Can you imagine any, any Republican having a secret meeting on a tarmac with even a scout master?

    Rev. Hoagie® (0f4ef6)

  50. THat makes sense, Leviticus. My nickname actually is Hoagie. My first restaurants were hoagie shops and a friend called me “The Hoagie Baron” and it shortened to just Hoagie.

    Rev. Hoagie® (0f4ef6)


    NAAWH! He’s building a huge stone wall. Michelle’s pulling Zuck’s leg with the headline.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  52. Ooow written by Doug Powers.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  53. Ted Cruz fighting against the Obama admin scrubbing Islam out of Homeland Security‘s lexicon. (YouTube)

    Senator Ted appears to have moved on. He’s got a job.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  54. I hope Mr. Trump takes some time to campaign for Marco Rubio.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  55. I will also point out that the $6000 is, to the bank, part of the down payment. On the loan form there is invariably a line that says “Was any part of the down payment borrowed”? Say “No” here, in this circumstance, is a cut-and-dried federal crime (“Loan fraud”).

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  56. Trump should also beware of rabbits.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  57. *be wary

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  58. also baked brie

    it comes out super hot sometimes

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  59. There was a lot of loan fraud going on with re-habbers/flippers for them to get the low FannieMae/FreddieMac rates. Billions and billions of fraud. You’d need a really big TARP to cover it all.

    nk (dbc370)

  60. 58. Kevin M (25bbee) — 7/1/2016 @ 10:15 am

    I will also point out that the $6000 is, to the bank, part of the down payment. On the loan form there is invariably a line that says “Was any part of the down payment borrowed”? Say “No” here, in this circumstance, is a cut-and-dried federal crime (“Loan fraud”).

    In the scenario as outlined in the book(s) – although not in reality in most cases – it’s OK with the bank.

    I mean, is there anything in the book that indicates that the main lender doesn’t know about the second mortgage? No.

    The fraud here may be telling people that something like this can easily be done.

    Sammy Finkelman (09e4a9)

  61. Umm,

    What kind of idiot would trash Goldwater? A clinton republican. Conservative my azz.

    mg (31009b) — 7/1/2016 @ 12:59 am

    MG, Goldwater is a Clinton Republican, afik.

    Steve Malynn (4bc33a)

  62. Off topic: One person’s opinion as to what federal policies ruined Puerto Rico’s economy:

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  63. In the scenario as outlined in the book(s) – although not in reality in most cases – it’s OK with the bank.

    So, they suggest checking “YES” on the loan form?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  64. They don’t tell anyone about the possibility the bank will not agree, let alone tell them standard loan form questions.

    It’s written like anybody can do this, with the obstacle being maybe that you have to find someone willing to make the $6,000 loan.

    The book has crucial omissions, or tells outright lies, in order to make it sound like what they are saying people could do is workable. They don’t mention any possible obstacles to carrying out what the book says people can do. That’s the big secret they are selling. The secret real estate methods can’t be done most of the time.

    Sammy Finkelman (09e4a9)

  65. Marc Racicot, former RNC chairperson today, in the WaPo:

    “…I cannot endorse or support Trump for president. And I offer my prayer for a second miracle in Cleveland.”

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  66. So, it’s plagiarized instructions for fraud? Or possibly plagiarized fraudulent instructions for fraud. And this is passed off as “Trump’s real estate secrets?” Trump should sue them for libel if they are suggesting he commits this kind of fraud on a routine basis.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  67. Anybody seen these claims that Trump participated in the coordinated rape of minor girls back in the day?

    Has that been fisked at all? My understanding was that there was a lawsuit with sworn testimony

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  68. is *a* legal complaint containing such allegations. Since it was filed on 6/20/2016, though, there has of course been no testimony yet.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  69. And here’s another complaint, this one with a named party, filed in California:

    aphrael (3f0569)

  70. WARNING FOR ANYONE READING THE ABOVE: they are *graphic*.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  71. Thanks, aphrael. I thought there was an affidavit, for some reason

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  72. How does that sit with Trump supporters? Two (more) rape allegations against their guy, these ones involving minors.

    Lemme guess: something something something Hillary Clinton

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  73. 69. Kevin M (25bbee) — 7/1/2016 @ 2:11 pm

    So, it’s plagiarized instructions for fraud?

    Yes it is.

    Or maybe the fraud was that you can actually do these things.

    From the New York Times article:

    Seminar attendees who later sought assistance from supposed experts over a Trump Institute toll-free phone line complained of being told to ignore what they had been taught in the seminars because it was outdated or useless advice.

    Regarding the plagisarism:

    In her defense, Susan G. Parker, who actually wrote or edited the 2006 Trump Institute handbook, might have been under the impression, although she doesn’t say so, that the material sent to her by the Milin’s then-lawyer, Peter Hoppenfeld, had been written either by Donald Trump, or somebody else whose writing they were free to use. The New York Times apparently tried calling Irene Milin in Boca Raton to try to get to the bottom of thsi, but, at first, she told a reporter, “I’m very busy,” and hung up, and then did not answer subsequent telephone calls or respond to a voice mail message.

    Sammy Finkelman (09e4a9)

  74. I dont even want to look at scribd. Thngs on taht website are hard to read.

    Sammy Finkelman (09e4a9)

  75. Or maybe something something something liberal media.

    This is a lawsuit. a serious lawsuit, the kind that you don’t bring (especially against Donald Trump) unless you are really f-Inc confident in the truth and verifiability of your allegations.

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  76. This particular document is particularly hard to read, Sammy. And it’s got nothing to do with ScribD.

    I handle these types of cases on a daily basis, and am still shocked by the allegations in that complaint.

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  77. Fark you. Booo. You’re lucky it’s in computer because otherwise you would be covered in rotten fish and vegetables.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  78. A spokesperson for the Trump campaign was dismissive:

    “This isn’t the first time Mr. Trump has been accused of violent rape, and it certainly won’t be the last,” the spokesperson stated super-convincingly. “The important thing to remember is that Mexicans have also raped people before. Mexicans!”

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  79. Hahahaha you’re pathetic, papertiger. Despite your best efforts, it’s impossible to carry so much can water in a bucket with so many holes.

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  80. Here is aweb page that says it summarizes that thing:

    Unlike many cases of this nature, there’s also a witness affidavit filed in the case, by a person named as Tiffany Doe, who claims to have been employed by Epstein between 1991 and 2000 as, essentially, a procurer of young girls.

    But the whole problem here is that a number of people, including AlanDershowitz have been falsely accued of being involved.

    Here is more: (what is alleged is that in 1994 Donald Trump had sexual intercourse with a 13-year old girl he was introduced to by Jeffrey Epstein. Consent would not an issue if she was 13 years old. She claims that on the fourth and last time he tied her to a bed and forcibly raped her while she pleaded with him to stop and that he struck her in the face, and told her afterwards that if she ever revealed what he had done, she and her family would be “physically harmed if not killed” and that she has been in fear of him ever since. That part definitely sounds made up, because it doesn’t a sound a lot like Donald Trump. And it’s also curious. Trump is too scared to do it again, but not too scared to threaten her that way?)

    Here’s the Daily Beast:

    Trump’s supporters have long wondered whether he’d use billionaire sicko Jeffrey Epstein as ammo against the Clintons—until a lurid new lawsuit accused The Donald of raping one of Epstein’s girls himself.

    Editor’s note: This article has been updated to reflect the withdrawal of Virginia Roberts Guiffre’s allegations against Alan Dershowitz and the striking of the allegations from the court record by a federal judge.

    Sammy Finkelman (09e4a9)

  81. I said, a while back, that “Trump could rape children and his supporters would say the kids had it coming.” Boy did they lay into me. Now, it is asserted that Trump did, or help others to do, just that.

    Hell of a nominee you’ve brought us.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  82. I assume #81 is satire. There should be a special font. Comic Sans, maybe.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  83. Fark you. Booo. You’re lucky it’s in computer because otherwise you would be covered in rotten fish and vegetables.

    Yeah, and you’d be covered in roses here from all of Trump’s well-wishers.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  84. Yeah, that was satire. Trump’s spokesholes would never acknowledge that he’d been accused of rape.

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  85. tell the whole story you flaky …

    Who is making complaint?

    The only name we have to go on is Epstein. Isn’t that the fella who made it his purpose in life to provide Billy Jeff’s strange? This guy.

    Police started an 11-month undercover investigation of Epstein, followed by a search of his home. Subsequently, they alleged that Epstein had paid several escorts to perform sexual acts on him. Interviews with five alleged victims and seventeen witnesses under oath, a high school transcript and other items they found in Epstein’s trash and home allegedly showed that some girls were under 18.[20] A search of Epstein’s home found large numbers of photos of girls throughout the house, some of whom had been interviewed earlier by the police.[19] Papers filed in 2006 state that Epstein installed concealed cameras in numerous places in his property to record sex between prominent people and underage prostitutes for criminal purposes such as blackmail.[21]

    Epstein had set up a system of young women recruiting other women for his massage services.[10] Two housekeepers stated to the police that Epstein would receive “massages” every day whenever he stayed in Palm Beach.[19] In May 2006, Palm Beach police filed a probable cause affidavit saying that Epstein should be charged with four counts of unlawful sex with minors and one molestation count.[19] His team of lawyers included Gerald Lefcourt, Alan Dershowitz and later Ken Starr.[10] Epstein passed a lie detector test in which he was asked whether he knew of the underage status of the girls—although lie detector tests are generally not admissible in a court of law.[22][23]

    Instead of following police recommendation, the prosecutors considered the evidence weak[22] and presented it to a grand jury. Former chief of Palm Beach police Michael Reiter later wrote to State Attorney Barry Krischer to complain of the state’s “highly unusual” conduct and asked him to remove himself from the case.[10] The grand jury returned only a single charge of felony solicitation of prostitution,[24] to which Epstein pleaded not guilty in August 2006.[25]

    In June 2008, after pleading guilty to a single state charge of soliciting prostitution from girls as young as 14,[26] Epstein began serving an 18-month sentence. He served 13 months, and upon release became a registered sex offender.[3][27] There is widespread controversy and suspicion that Epstein got off lightly.[28]

    After the accusations became public, several parties returned donations they had received from Epstein, including Eliot Spitzer, Bill Richardson,[11] and the Palm Beach Police Department.[20] Harvard announced that it would not return any money.[11] A range of charitable donations Epstein had made financing children’s education were also brought into question.[26]

    On June 18, 2010, Epstein’s former butler, Alfredo Rodriguez, was sentenced to 18 months in jail for trying to sell a journal that he said recorded Epstein’s activities. Special Agent Christina Pryor reviewed the material and agreed it was information “that would have been extremely useful in investigating and prosecuting the case, including names and contact information of material witnesses and additional victims.”[29][30] Epstein allegedly lent girls to powerful people to ingratiate himself with them and also to get possible blackmail information.[28]

    Well lahdeefreaking dah.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  86. Like the way someone was confident that Alan Dershowitz and Britain’s Prince Andrew was involved? (Dershowitz proved he had an alibi. He was involved, but only as one of Epstein’s lawyers who helped him skate.)

    The first thing is to establish whether Donald Trump visited Epstein’s harem or was present at any of his parties. If so, in taht period, he likely did have sex with one or more of Epstein’s girls, and he wouldn’t have known the ages of these girls, or how they got to be there. It’s unlikely that he – in the words of Oprah Winfrey – rape-raped anyone.

    Sammy Finkelman (09e4a9)

  87. Better have video.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  88. Well lookie here.
    ” the earliest versions of the rumor was published on 2 May 2016 by the Winning Democrats web site, which reported that:

    The first major scandal to hit the Trump campaign besides the typical “what a racist, such a sexist, yada yada yada,” came from a lawsuit stemming from the infamous sex parties held by billionaire and known pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. The woman named in the suit is Katie Johnson, who says Trump took her virginity in 1994 when she was only 13 and being held by Epstein as a slave.

    Katie Johnson, age 13 in 1994, would be 35 years old today.
    Would that be, could that be, President Obama’s personal secretary?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  89. That’s it. Trump is done. No party can nominate a candidate for the presidency that has charges like this hanging over him. Unless he can CONVINCINGLY refute them in the next few weeks, his support will evaporate, leaving only the dregs in his base.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  90. Hillary may ALSO be done, and Bill as well. But that doesn’t save Trump.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  91. All of the sudden the massive fraud lawsuit is only the second/third most concerning lawsuit that Trump is facing.

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  92. The suit was thrown out in California because 1) she filed it herself and farked it up and 2) it had to be filed in New York as that is where the acts took place and where the respondents live.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  93. No, papertiger, that Katie Johnson still lives in DC and apparently never lived in NYC. BUt thatnks for fulfilling my expectations.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  94. I was mulling over that his forgiveness of his campaign debt was not going to be official until July 20, the third day of the convention, when he’d know whether or not he had the nomination.

    As to the accusation, I’m inclined not to believe what prostitutes say. I want clear and convincing evidence from the accusers. This is not the same thing as making fun of his hair.

    nk (dbc370)

  95. Could this be her?

    Johnson’s parents passed along their interest in Democratic politics to their daughter, who in high school served as an intern in the office of Maryland’s then-governor Parris Glendening. While at Wellesley she served as an intern on the 2000 senate campaign of Hillary Clinton, and as an intern for the Massachusetts Democratic Party.[citation needed]

    Johnson graduated from Wellesley College in 2003[5] with a Bachelor of Arts degree in political science.[citation needed] Prior to her post as personal secretary to the president, Johnson was Rahm Emanuel’s special assistant for two years when he led the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and also served as Barack Obama campaign manager David Plouffe’s assistant.[5]

    Johnson was one of several junior staffers who left the White House in 2011 to attend Harvard Law School.[6] Her last day was June 10, 2011.[7]

    Post Secretarial Career[edit]
    Johnson returned to the White House as a Counselor in the Office of Management and Budget.[8]

    Couldn’t find a job. Needed the money. And since there is next to zero downside for a false rape accusation.

    One look at that picture and you can tell, starry eyed true believer.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  96. As to the accusation, I’m inclined not to believe what prostitutes say. I want clear and convincing evidence from the accusers.

    The real question is whether anyone is inclined to believe Trump.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  97. Sammy, it is possible not to realize a 16yo isn’t 18. But a 13yo is pretty obvious.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  98. “I want clear and convincing evidence from the accusers.”

    Where does a convicted and registered sex offender fall under a balance of probability test with an under age prostitute on the other side of the scale? Apparently, Epstein’s procurer kept records which may well place Trump in close proximity to the registered sex offender and the underage prostitute. Clinton was sexually molesting interns in the White House during the summer of ’94 so its doubtful whether he was also in attendance but with Epstein as a co-defendant, perhaps he will be called to corroborate a pattern of behavior.

    Rick Ballard (0e6252)

  99. @ aphrael (#72): Thanks for the links, I love looking at original source documents.

    In my own law practice or otherwise, I don’t recall ever seeing a “sworn declaration” done by in a pseudonymous name. Until very recently, Texas state practice was all about affidavits or other sworn statements made under oath as administered by a notary or other officer empowered to administer oaths. But I gather that in many other states — most prominently in California, at least in my limited experience outside Texas — these “self-swearing” declarations are all the vogue.

    I’m unconvinced that testimony made without real (albeit remote) threat of penalty is reliable for any purpose at all — it’s not even really “testimony,” it’s no different from any unsworn hearsay statement.

    I’d be more impressed by a redacted affidavit, in which the affiant or declarant was identified by name, and stated to have been identified to the notary and properly sworn, but then with the name redacted out and the originals kept by the filing lawyer (for, if necessary, submission in camera or under seal to the court when/if appropriate).

    But I’d welcome reactions from our host or any of the many other lawyers or legally-inclined who comment here.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  100. A judge recommended on April 29 that “Katie Johnson” should have to pay her own attorneys’ fees and court costs related to the $100 million lawsuit she brought against Trump and billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein over alleged sexual assault charges. Then on May 2, a U.S. District judge ordered the entire lawsuit thrown out.

    Katie Johnson in scare quotes. It’s an alias. We are back to square one. Anonymous filed a lawsuit.

    Jane Doe and Tiffany Doe, we have their word on it.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  101. How come Cruz Rubio or Jeb or any of those other 15 candidates never found out about this with their research?

    Because the Clinton’s hadn’t invented it yet.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  102. What do we mean by “threat of penalty”? Is perjury the only thing we consider? Because there is absolutely “threat of penalty,” broadly speaking, in fabricating a lawsuit – particularly a lawsuit like this, particularly a defendant like this, and particularly in circumstances like this

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  103. @ Kevin M (#101): Do not mistake me to be defending Bill Clinton or Donald Trump or anyone who preys on children. But, at the risk of quibbling (to which I’m admittedly prone):

    “Pretty obvious” is a very, very bad standard to go by when assessing potential sex partners.

    This G-rated photo of actress Megan Fox at age 12. It’s one I showed to my own two sons in explaining to them a few years ago that “pretty obvious” should not be their standard. Even her braces are now common on twenty-somethings. Strippers & webcam “girls” in their 20s put on fake ones now when performing, to look like Lolita. Older women trying to look pubescent has the corresponding effect of making pubescent girls seem older, or at least confusing. And the average age of female puberty is apparently dropping. And don’t get me started on Brooke Shields.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  104. Beldar, Illinois has Verification by Certification. Its violation — certifying false statements — is perjury, a Class 3 felony (two to five, probationable).

    I used it for some pre-printed court-form pleadings; but not for my own Verified Petitions or Answers or when my document said “Affidavit” at the top. Those I would have sworn and notarized. I had the same reservations as you about the evidentiary value of “certified” statements, or how a judge might view them, and I preferred to avoid the issue altogether since I had a notary next to me.

    nk (dbc370)

  105. @ Leviticus (#106): That’s a nice distinction, and apt, and was why I deliberately didn’t include “of perjury” after “penalty.” There are potentially civil sanctions under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure that are well short of a criminal prosecution for perjury.

    Even the new-fangled federal and state rules or statutes that authorize these “declarations” — and 28 U.S. Code § 1746 arguably sets a preemptive nationwide standard — are conditioned on the statement being made “under penalty of perjury.”

    It’s also worth noting that a plaintiff and her lawyers may face sanctions in this case even if the underlying factual allegations are true. Even if the sexual assaults happened, the claims may be frivolous because they’re obviously time-barred. That, in turn, will depend on whether the plaintiff and her lawyers have a good-faith basis to believe they can prove the further factual allegations about the cover-up and intimidation, used to allegedly justify the tolling or excuse from limitations. That’s where most efforts to argue limitations-tolling collapse: How did the Defendants overbear your will so continuously for so many years, day in and day out, when by all appearances your lives have been completely separate for decades now?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  106. Thanks, nk — informative and interesting!

    Beldar (fa637a)

  107. This is pretty strange that after a lifetime of being in the public eye and a year of running for President, an allegation such as this is coming to light against Trump just a few weeks prior to the Convention.
    Fortunately for him, most liberals and many independents don’t care about allegations of sexual impropriety against Presidential candidates.
    Where’s James Carville to talk about dragging a hundred bill through a trailer park?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  108. Filed the day Trump won the nomination.

    I think that’s significant.

    Cheese and crackers! Who wants to break the news to Mike Tyson?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  109. Most plaintiffs will say, as here: “This was a powerful man who had means, motive,” etc. That’s true; that’s vague.

    And the follow-up question is: If you were so terrified that your free will was overcome for all these years, what changed yesterday to release you from your paralysis?

    Most plaintiffs trying to get tolling can’t give a good answer to that, other than “Now I feel like suing.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  110. I also got a frown on my face just reading the title of the complaint. Defamation? Seriously? That’s Trump-like, which is to say Trump-level overpleading and exaggeration. Defamation typically has a one-year statute of limitations, the shortest of any tort. And it’s pretty hard to simultaneously prove that someone has wrongfully injured your public reputation while also enforcing a conspiracy of silence through threats of murder.

    Color me wildly unimpressed with this lawyering or the chances for this lawsuit.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  111. Depends on the SOL. There are discovery rules in a lot of jurisdictions.

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  112. That’s too bad. I was starting to contemplate a Ted Cruz revolt.

    President Cruz by popular acclaim on the convention floor.

    Dodged the bullet.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  113. Like NM, for instance. Which acknowledges that in cases of CSA, victims often don’t realize they’ve been legally wronged until many years after the standard limitations period has passed. It delays the accrual.

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  114. Yes, I agree that application of limitations tolling/discovery rule/fraud exceptions, etc., varies quite a bit jurisdiction to jurisdiction, even year to year. Plaintiffs’ tort lawyers have gotten some state legislatures to relax some rules; there’s also been pushback against that from tort reformers.

    But this lady alleges, for example, that “what changed” was that Donald Trump has become ubiquitous and unavoidable. Well, hell — I’ve hated him since the 1980s, and I’ve found him ubiquitous and unavoidable ever since then. But the fact that he’s constantly in the public eye now is reason for someone who believed herself under threat to be more compelled to remain silent: Surely Trump, even post-Lewandowski, is more scary now than he was when merely doing WWF wrestling TV shows.

    I wouldn’t take this on a contingent fee basis. I’d be surprised if it survives a Rule 12(b) motion to dismiss, if the judge is a Twiqbal fan, or a Rule 56(e) otherwise. We’ll see.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  115. Some of the backlash comes from those “recovered memory” cases in Florida, which Clinton AG Janet Reno was involved in persecuting. (Not prosecuting, although that was her job title.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  116. I don’t care about the viability of her legal claims. She’s not my client. I care about the truth or falsity her allegations. The two are not directly linked, in many ways.

    (Which isn’t to dispute that one could draw reasonable inferences about the truth of her allegations by assessing her legal claims. I definitely get that.).

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  117. There’s a giant defense brief-bank on recovered memory, now. Anyway, survivors of childhood sexual abuse don’t typically repress the memories, or forget what happened to them – they just don’t process it as abuse until some trigger (seeing their own child reach the age they were at the time they were abused, for instance) causes a recognition of the wrongfulness of what they suffered.

    Leviticus (3068a2)

  118. Just another scam to drain blood

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  119. I think all liberal voters suffer from repressed memories. How else can it be explained that they continue to vote for failed policies which are proven to be destructive?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  120. it’s like ground hog day, all over again, so has actually taken up her case, you’d think allred, beetlejuice, beetlejuice, would be crawling all over it,

    narciso (732bc0)

  121. @ Leviticus (#120): I understand exactly. When it comes to disdain for Trump, my needle has been pegged for decades. So my comments aren’t to defend Trump: if what this plaintiff claims is true, it’s a further and horrible example of his monstrousness, and that’s topical and relevant completely apart from the legal viability of the lawsuit.

    I just console myself over the current national state of affairs by retreating back into something that makes more sense to me — law, legal procedure, legal strategy. 😀

    Beldar (fa637a)

  122. Sad, but so utterly predictable:

    “I want to thank our governor, our governor, I call him ours,” Trump said in Bangor, referring to Paul LePage. “He’s a great, great guy.”

    LePage was an early endorser of the now-presumptive GOP nominee and is considered as controversial, brash, and divisive as Trump himself — if not more so. He’s been labeled “America’s craziest governor” and is unpopular in the state, even though he was re-elected two years ago.

    Still, LePage’s appearance was remarkable in that it is so rare these days for a current office holder to want to be mentioned in the same sentence as Trump — let alone campaign with him. New Hampshire Sen. Kelly Ayotte, facing a difficult re-election this year, did not join Trump on a Thursday trip to Manchester, where he criticized trade policy that she supported.

    And it casts a light on the small and eccentric group of Trump’s friends in the political sphere….

    J.V. squad, bought on the cheap.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  123. Heh! Maine may be an example of “you get what you pay for”. It pays its governors $70,000 a year and they have to live in their own home — no governor’s mansion. Mrs. LePage is working as a waitress. She says it’s because she wants a new car, but I’m betting it’s for the grocery bills. In addition to LePage being the craziest governor, he is also the fattest.

    nk (dbc370)

  124. nk, I’ve got an affidavit war story you might appreciate (apologies if I’ve told it before):

    Many years ago, a lawyer friend of mine was desperate to find some way to avoid — even if temporarily, through some procedural objection about a technical error — a ruling on a well-written, just-filed motion for summary judgment by his opponents. My friend needed any thin reed to stave off the expected ruling, which was likely to be against his client. He needed to get his own response date to the motion put off, and to find some issue to delay the submission or argument on the motion, just long enough to scramble to a slightly better settlement posture. (So we could negotiate a surrender with dignity for our side, basically: it was that kind of a case.)

    My colleague noticed that the key affidavit supporting the summary judgment motion was notarized, according to the caption in the title, in the “State of Texas, County of Harris.” He recalled that during an earlier deposition, this same witness denied ever having been to Houston or Harris County — and he lived in a rural Texas county way across the state, didn’t like to travel, although he did have Houston counsel for this case.

    So my colleague, on a hunch, notices up (with bare minimum required advance notice) the nonparty deposition of … the notary public. Notices it as a video deposition, which freaks out the other side and the notary, who is of course a secretary working at our opposing counsel’s law firm.

    Under the bright lights, she is obliged to admit that actually, Mr. Affiant had not personally appeared before her on the 22nd day of May, 1984, and he had not been “duly sworn,” or sworn in any fashion whatsoever. He had signed and faxed in the affidavit; she said she knew this client, had no doubt about the source, and notarized it just as if he’d been standing in front of her when he signed it. “But what you swore too, as a notary public, was literally untrue, wasn’t it?” She had to agree — and she basically melted down in tears, sobbing, under the very lightest of provocations. Opposing counsel consented to withdraw their summary judgment motion at least temporarily; the case settled.

    We felt slightly sorry for her, but her embarrassment was of her own making, and indeed it was her bosses who were more (and more appropriately) embarrassed. I’ve told her story (without naming her, of course) to dozens and dozens of notaries public over the years, to let them know what could await if they decide to “bend the rules” for a boss or a good client or friend.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  125. * cough … “swore to”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  126. were there damages againt the party that proferred a false affidavit, one recalls the staff psychologist that didn’t sign off on the exam of the shooter,

    narciso (732bc0)

  127. I also had a negotiable instruments case once — a lawsuit brought by the kids of a man who’d died estranged from them. They sued my client, a bank, saying that it had wrongly paid the proceeds of a $100k certificate of deposit in their late father’s name, which proceeds had been collected by the old man’s long-time live-in housekeeper. She had cashed in the CD using a written power of attorney; she said the old man wanted her to have the money, and told her to go get it. She’d spent most of it buying new Cadillacs for her family.

    So the issue was testamentary capacity of the old man when he’d signed the power of attorney. The lawyer who’d drawn it up for him had since died too, so he wasn’t available. But I found the notary who’d notarized it; she had been a legal secretary for many years, but when her boss died, she’d gone back to her original profession — as a Catholic nun. She was no longer spry — confined to a wheelchair, in fact. But she was sharp as a tack still, and she vividly remembered the old man signing this power of attorney, and she was very certain that he had demonstrated that he had his wits about him.

    I’d listed this woman as a potential witness, and had interviewed her myself, but no one else interviewed her, and she hadn’t given a deposition. At trial, as everyone was coming back from a break, I was literally wheeling her into the courtroom, preparatory to calling her as my first witness, when my opponent looked up and saw us. She saw him, too, and beamed a very bright smile in his direction. Beatific, you could call that smile. She might have had a slight, visible aura at that moment, or maybe it was just the sunbeams through the courtroom blinds.

    “Your notary public is a crippled nun?” he asked me.

    “Yes,” I said.

    “Is the $10k offer still on the table?”

    “No, it’s $5k,” I replied.

    “I’ll take it,” he said.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  128. Very good stories, Beldar, thank you. That first one in particular. There is only one way to practice law and that is perfectly. Which you did. Applause.

    nk (dbc370)

  129. Meanwhile, the WaPo reports that Trump bought personal items with charity money.

    Admittedly, the Wapo has a hard-on for Trump, but I really don’t care how he falls, so long as it’s soon.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  130. Hillary cheating the taxpayer and fooling the voters through the Clinton Foundation. Trump cheating the taxpayer and fooling the voters through the Trump Foundation.

    Sort of makes me think we should abolish the IRS, scrap the existing tax code, and go to a simple tax whose returns can be filed on a single sheet of paper. I think I’ll support a candidate in 2020 who’s in favor of such.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  131. Sort of makes me think we should abolish the IRS, scrap the existing tax code, and go to a simple tax whose returns can be filed on a single sheet of paper. I think I’ll support a candidate in 2020 who’s in favor of such.

    I think I’ll vote for such a candidate in 2016. Even if I have to scrawl “I VOTE FOR TED CRUZ” across the ballot with a thick Sharpie, I’ll do it.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  132. 127 —

    nk, Maine actually does have a governor’s mansion, Blaine House.

    gwjd (032bef)

  133. Beldar (fa637a) — 7/1/2016 @ 3:59 pm

    In my own law practice or otherwise, I don’t recall ever seeing a “sworn declaration” done by in a pseudonymous name.

    Tat also happened with New Jersey Senator Robert Menendez. But those affidavits were prepared in teh Dominicxan Republic.

    (those particular allegations did not form any part of the basis for his indictment)

    Sammy Finkelman (09e4a9)

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