Patterico's Pontifications

I guess it was me then..

steveg (fed1c9) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:06 pm

God help us.

Dana (0ee61a) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:06 pm

Now why would anyone want to encourage these ladies to keep their babies?

nk (dbc370) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:10 pm

I haven’t felt this badly about the future of the country since I died at Midway.

Which was easier than dying at the First Battle of Manassas.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:14 pm

“Toxic masculinity.”
“Global culture of imperialist homophobia.”

There were 320 people in that bar, most of them in good enough shape to dance salsa and meringue. Yet one man, armed with a 20-shot semi-automatic rifle, killed 49 of them, wounded another 53, and held 25 hostage in the bathroom where they had hid.

It seems to me that any kind of masculinity would have been helpful to rush the gunman and bring him down by sheer numbers. Or is that imperialistically homophobic?

nk (dbc370) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:20 pm

Thanks to Planned Parenthood, the black community is a hell of a lot smaller than it would otherwise be.

JVW (eabb2a) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:24 pm

Ibn Abbas said: “Umar asked about the decision of the Prophet (peace be upon him) about that (i.e. abortion) Haml ibn Malik ibn an-Nabighah got up and said: I was between two women. One of them struck another with a tent-pole killing both her and what was in her womb. So the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) gave judgment that the blood-wit for the unborn child should be a male or a female slave of the best quality and that she should be killed.”
Hadith—Abu Dawood 4555, Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab

There are a couple of other references to this, that the penalty for killing an unborn child is that one of your slaves is killed.

But I think Islam is a lot more malleable about when the fetus is a person.

Ultimately I do not understand why Planned Parenthood feels such an intense need to be in the news all the time, and tell us how we should think about terrorists. But they probably have some highly paid consultants with some theory about it.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:29 pm

they face the most reactionary force on the planet, yet they just yell squirrel, because unlike the augusta golf club, which gave way, the salafi/takfiri will kill you when you get in their way,

narciso (732bc0) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:35 pm

We have to face the reality that many of our fellow citizens are plainly just too stupid to survive. I say this with sadness, but it appears that they will not wake up until long after it is too late. The trick will be to avoid being dragged under by them.

orcadrvr (2977be) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:37 pm

Sounds just like the ACLU attorneys blaming the conservative right for the leftist islamic’s murderous actions.

NJRob (a07d2e) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:39 pm

a more elaborate spelling out of the network,

http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2016/06/12/philip-haney-orlando-shooting-remarkably-similar-san-bernardino-theres-lot-overlap-two-networks/

narciso (732bc0) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:39 pm

Just a reminder that these fools vote and cancel you out… well actually their vote counts more because they cheat and vote multiple times.

NJRob (a07d2e) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:40 pm

a corrective to that level of category error,

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436505/mass-shooting-florida-anti-gay-violence-rooted-muslim-law

narciso (732bc0) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:44 pm

Islam doesn’t foment violence against gays?
Did Planned Parenthood actually tweet that?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:52 pm

…Yet one man, armed with a 20-shot semi-automatic rifle, killed 49 of them, wounded another 53, and held 25 hostage in the bathroom where they had hid.

nk (dbc370) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:20 pm

It was a freakin bar. How did no one think of applying a bar stool to the guy’s head?

Had I been in that situation, and first of all I wouldn’t have been in that situation being straight, it would have occurred to me.

Seriously. You have a whole lot to lose at that point?

I think maybe the gay/straight thing is relevant because I don’t like embarrassing myself in front of girls. So I’d pick up the bar stool and have at it. Not being gay, I don’t know if the same dynamic is in play.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:55 pm

The problem is not Islam specifically.

The problem is religious extremism in general.

I’m sure there are as many fringe/unstable Christians who would commit violence against gays if they thought they could get away with it, or of the did considered suicide after doing so an acceptable.

More violence has been committed in the name of a god or religion against those that follow a different religion than any other kind of violence. The world will be a far better place when humanity ditches all the fairy tales and myths.

Foo Bar (44481f) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:56 pm

The herd will be culled. Stiff completion these days for the Darwin Award.

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:58 pm

More violence has been committed in the name of a god or religion against those that follow a different religion than any other kind of violence. The world will be a far better place when humanity ditches all the fairy tales and myths.

Foo Bar (44481f) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:56 pm
==========================================

Millions of Russians and Chineses people would disagree with that contention. Oh… wait…

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:00 pm

“CNN: 0 mentions of Islam, prominent link to story on the dangers of guns.
New York Times: 0 mentions of Islam, prominent link to story on the dangers of guns.

Washington Post: 0 mentions of Islam, prominent link to story on the dangers of guns.

ABC Australia: Mentions Islam, mentions recent shooting in Miami, but no lectures.

The American mainstream media are consistently to the left of one of the left-most institutions in Australia.

Oh, and Reddit is a total train wreck on this story. Just amazingly bad. The moderators are deleting anything that doesn’t fit the narrative, or that questions why so many posts not fitting the narrative are being deleted, or that questions why so many post that question… Train wreck is putting it mildly.”

http://ai.mee.nu/orlando

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:06 pm

Foo Bar! It’s “toxic masculinity” and “imperialist global homophobia”! Stay on message, will you? We still need the Episcopal Church.

nk (dbc370) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:06 pm

The appropriately named Foo Bar is to put it politely f*cked in in the head.

Yes, it is in fact Islam specific. Let us count the ways.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:09 pm

lol, foo fighter goes splat,

narciso (732bc0) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:10 pm

Foo Bar,

So an Islamic jihadist murdered 50 people, and you’re angry at Lutherans? Wut?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:11 pm

…We still need the Episcopal Church.
nk (dbc370) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:06 pm

I sense a tongue firmly in cheek.

I haven’t needed the Episcopal Church since when it was invented.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:12 pm

“More violence has been committed in the name of a god or religion against those that follow a different religion than any other kind of violence. The world will be a far better place when humanity ditches all the fairy tales and myths.”

In the 20th century alone, tens of millions were killed by explicitly atheist ideologies: Communism an Nazism, including Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Che Guevara, Castro, Idi Amin, and many others.

You statement quoted above is pure idiocy.

orcadrvr (2977be) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:15 pm

#16 Foo Bar,

On the one hand you assert that all religions are bad. But then you assert on the other hand that Islam is not a problem. So are you therefore saying that Islam is not even a religion? (LOL)

Or are you merely signaling to us that you’re an incoherent left wing crackhead?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:18 pm

well nowaday, henry tudor, would say, let me think this through a bit,

narciso (732bc0) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:20 pm

The Trump bumper sticker generator (lgf link)

papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:24 pm

The gay bar foo bar wouldn’t have had 300 gay patrons with little to no security if all religions were created equal.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:27 pm

It seems to me that any kind of masculinity would have been helpful to rush the gunman and bring him down by sheer numbers. Or is that imperialistically homophobic?

Sigh. This appears to have been the sort of Florida gay bar patronized by young party boys. Not the kind of gay bar that men like Mark Bingham would have patronized.

JVW (eabb2a) — 6/13/2016 @ 11:07 pm

Millions of Russians and Chineses people would disagree with that contention. Oh… wait…

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:00 pm

Haiku is right, Foo Bar.

Atheism taken to an extreme has killed far, far more people in the 20th Century than all religions in all of man’s history. That’s not hyperbole. It’s history that should be taught in public school, along with Western Civ. Instead we get this John Lennon nonsense about imagine there’s no religion and everything would be peaceful. Without extrinsic values, life becomes cheap. We know it’s precious. It’s one source of faith to me.

Hate is alien and wrong to most normal men. We experience it briefly before rejecting it, and in its place seek justice and balances. Those who foment hate all the time are a source of misery. Pounding the table to hate gays is an evil thing. There’s a big difference between how a Christian would think marriage is part of a family dynamic, between a man and a woman, and homosexuality is a sinful mistake, and those who think all heretics should be slaughtered.

But all of this is beside the point. There is more to this story. There’s a personal motive we don’t know. Everyone is coloring this horrible thing in order to understand how this evil can possibly fit into our world. It’s not bad faith, but it’s human nature to make mistakes in analyzing the horrible.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/13/2016 @ 11:24 pm

I think maybe the gay/straight thing is relevant because I don’t like embarrassing myself in front of girls. So I’d pick up the bar stool and have at it. Not being gay, I don’t know if the same dynamic is in play.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:55 pm

I don’t know the answer.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 12:01 am

But it’s not a 1965 Valiant, because I’ve tried that.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 12:16 am

All I can think of is Todd Beamer and “let’s roll.”

Simon Jester (ec12ac) — 6/14/2016 @ 1:55 am

Our govt. should hire private contractors to hunt these mooslum killers down and destroy them and their way of life. In 6 months these sick diaper heads would be gone along with the mosques. Boom daddy boom. Round zem up and harvest their body parts, cut the national debt. Send the non usable remains of these killers back to their family packed in pig guts. Can I get a Amen?

mg (31009b) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:29 am

David French for president!!!
lmmfao

mg (31009b) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:52 am

Bring that sharia law around me and you will meet a 12 gauge with no plug.

mg (31009b) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:54 am

These sand negroes need to go back to their dune dwellings.

mg (31009b) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:56 am

The choice is still Trump or Hillary. One of them will be President. Your choice.

cedarhill (abed02) — 6/14/2016 @ 4:52 am

Anybody but Trump.

He is not the solution. He is part of the problem. Immorality? Hedonism? Momentary materialism? Opportunism? Selfishness? Self-indulgence? Lack of social responsibility? He embodies all these things.

We might need to be stuck with the boil that is Hillary but let’s cauterize the gangrene that is Trump once and for good.

BTW, he is 70 today.

nk (dbc370) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:26 am

Once Bush falsely identified the enemy as “terror” we were on a loosing course. He said we were in a “war on terror”. No, terror is a tactic, not an enemy. We are in a war with islam which has declared jihad on us. It doesn’t matter if Hillary! or Obama or anybody says “radical islam” until they admit it’s a war ON islam not terror. And for all you squishy leftist PC characters out there a war on islam means every moslem since we can’t tell which is which.

But Hillary!’s answer to disarm Americans because moslems kill is just plain stupid.

Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:31 am

Looks like nk has officially gone pro-communist #4Hillary!. I’m shocked. Shocked!

Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:33 am

It doesn’t have to be Hillary. What’s Vermin Supreme doing these days?

nk (dbc370) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:38 am

And for all you squishy leftist PC characters out there a war on islam means every moslem since we can’t tell which is which.

We can’t tell for sure who is a Muslim and who is not either. Every dang furriner! Let God sort them out.

nk (dbc370) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:41 am

I thought this was good:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/great-question-14575.html

Rev., nk is anti-Hillary, he is also more anti-Trump than anti-Hillary,
That may make him de facto pro-Hillary
I do think it is a matter of perspective,
Besides, is ILL in play for Trump? If he wants to write in Cruz or someone as a protest, does it matter?

Either God is giving us up to what we deserve ala Romans 1, in what case the response is Habakkuk’s prayer, “In wrath remember mercy”,
or we keep praying for intervention.
It’s June, the fat lady isn’t even on the stage yet.

MD in Philly (cf3c76) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:43 am

“FINGER TO THE WIND: In Wake of Orlando Shooting, Clinton Tacks to the Center on Terror. ”

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/236179/

Colonel Haiku (fc9aef) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:59 am

Sorry Hoagie, but if it’s like that, then you’re the one who has gone pro-communist. I’ve already provided ample basis to say Trump is far more that way than Hillary is. So eat your own medicine. You own everything about the candidate you prefer by your standards. And you prefer a despicable man.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:04 am

We can’t tell for sure who is a Muslim and who is not either. Every dang furriner! Let God sort them out.

Maybe you can’t tell for sure who the moslems are but if they have a moslem name it’s a good start. How many moslems have you ever heard of named Sean Fitzpatrick? And I didn’t say kill anybody and let God sort them out. Can’t you make your point without prevaricating about what I say or think?

Rev., nk is anti-Hillary, he is also more anti-Trump than anti-Hillary,

Doesn’t sound like that to me. I understood arguing with ropelight and papertiger during the primary but the primary is over and Trump is our candidate. So now choosing Hillary! over our candidate makes one a commie loving traitor. At least Patterico and John Hitchcock refuses to vote for either because he has more honor than to vote commie. So far all I get from nk is #4Hillary! cause she’s better than Trump. That’s an excuse to vote fore the enemy.

Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:04 am

MD, we have more than a few friends who have cops in their families. I’m not going to ask them to vote for BlackOlivesKalamata i.e. CopsLivesDon’t Matter i.e. Hillary. I see where they cannot be anything but #neverhillary.

As for Illinois, who knows? Trump might carry it. At least the Hillary supporters I talk to seem to be worried about it. (I give them my #nevertrump line and consider it my good deed for the day. 🙂 )

nk (dbc370) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:08 am

I never said that I would vote for Hillary. Stop prevaricating about what I say or think. 😉

And I know that you did not say “kill anybody and let God sort them out”. That’s because you did not think the problem through to a complete solution, so I did it for you. 😉

nk (dbc370) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:13 am

I’m saddened by your lack of comprehension of what a communist is, Dustin. Perhaps you need to go to war against them like I did to learn. You provided no basis other than Trump is a loud-mouthed self-serving crony-capitalist but he sure ain’t no commie, Dustin. That honor goes to Hillary. Failure to understand these very basic differences is why our country is faced with this crap to begin with.

And once again I will point out (since you seem to be getting emotional and taking it personally) that I am not “for” Trump. I am against electing a communist as President and fulfilling Khrushchev’s prediction. I’m also against giving Congress and the SC over to the left. If I thought for ONE MINUTE my not voting for either one of them would keep both out of office I wouldn’t vote.

Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:14 am

Here’s what should worry the #neverhillary people. “Don’t scare white people.” White people who in other circumstances would never vote for Hillary, maybe because they don’t think she’s worth going to the polling station for, might turn out for her because they’re scared of Trump.

nk (dbc370) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:18 am

I like Mr. Trump he’s got a good sense of how you make it to where the economy is good.

He’s a pipsy-wizzle and a plum lolly both!

happyfeet (831175) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:19 am

And you know who’s scarier than Trump? His supporters.

nk (dbc370) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:20 am

on the wings of trump up and above the clouds

the only way to fly

is on the wings of trump!

happyfeet (831175) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:23 am

There are different forms of tyranny, communism is one kind, but only one kind.
There is another kind that Trump would be.

I can’t see the future to know which would be the worst overall with the worst consequences for the next 4 years,
I’m inclined to vote against the devil I know (Hillary or whoever else is the representative of the party of Obama),
I can’t argue too much with those who have greater concern for the devil we don’t know.

Still praying that neither devil prevails,
because the choice really is that bad,
not because an alternative is easily forthcoming.

MD in Philly (cf3c76) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:27 am

nk — your last paycheck still has not been cashed. Please cash it ASAP so that we can keep all our bought-and-paid-for, dishonest flow of toxic nonsense flowing as scheduled. (((Thank you.)))

George Soros (cacaf3) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:29 am

Get stuffed, Christoph.

Patterico, clean up of cacaf3 required.

nk (dbc370) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:31 am

nk — you know, if for once, just once in your life, you said something witty, funny, perceptive, or insightful, some sort of actual parry that implied even a speck of intelligence, instead of your usual imbecilic threats and authoritarian hoo-hah, I might develop a tiny grain of respect for you.

But alas, no. So we were forced to eat Robin’s minstrels.

And there was much rejoicing.

hunson abedeer (cacaf3) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:53 am

As we know (but warrants repeating), for the left, Islam is seen as a race and a victim group and, from that perspective, cannot be criticized.

Yes, a religion is viewed as a race. And: Rule #1: only the white race can be criticized.

Besides, the criticism comes largely from white conservatives. And since they are “our enemy” (in the left’s view) then we cannot align with them. They are a bigger threat than this so-called “radical Islam.”

Finally, to put a bow on this, because of racism and imperialism and slavery and other injustices the west has no standing to judge other cultures or religions.

Unless it’s Jews and Israel.

Sure, none of this makes a lick of sense but there it is.

SteveMG (2db525) — 6/14/2016 @ 7:07 am

What?

AZ Bob (d6a3a9) — 6/14/2016 @ 7:14 am

Huh?

AZ Bob (d6a3a9) — 6/14/2016 @ 7:16 am

If Muslim Terrorist Doesn’t Represent All Muslims Why Does He Represent All Gun Owners ?

hattip Instapundit

Steve Malynn (1d7837) — 6/14/2016 @ 7:24 am

30 and 34.

Those guys just kept in it (not down low, but not flamboyant) and worked within the milieu of the greater society. I wonder if this hit a little too close to home for a sitting U.S. Senator from the same state who now considering running for re-election after having declining the prospect initially. Does he embrace his foam days instead of hide from them?

urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 6/14/2016 @ 7:37 am

I don’t know who hunson abedeer is, but I’m with nk in suspecting that it’s here in violation of the “keep your original handle” rule.

And the reflexive veering toward “incompatibility with Western civilization” as a topic of conversation definitely rings of Christoph.

Leviticus (efada1) — 6/14/2016 @ 7:41 am

White Americans are still being held indirectly “responsible” for the scourge of slavery which ended over 150 yrs ago, yet this wife-beating terrorist who murdered 49 people and injured over 50 others gets absolved from all personal responsibility by left wing organizations such as Planned Parenthood, which is transferring his personal responsibility to the world (“imperialism”!) at large.

Okay, but by Planned Parenthood’s argument, shouldn’t that mean that we should no longer be blaming the evil institution of slavery on the statues of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, when they were merely helpless pawns who were manipulated by the very same toxic masculinity and imperialism of centuries past which manipulated Omar Mir Seddique Mateen just a few days ago?

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/14/2016 @ 7:44 am

“We are in a war with islam which has declared jihad on us… And for all you squishy leftist PC characters out there a war on islam means every moslem since we can’t tell which is which…”

– Rev. Hoagie

How do you propose that “we” wage this “war” with every Muslim, Hoagie, since you simultaneously claim that “I didn’t say kill anybody and let God sort them out.” I know that your conception of war involves killing enemies, because you talk about your conception of war and your experience with war a lot.

If we know that your conception of war with commies involves killing commies because they’re commies, then why wouldn’t we think that your conception of war with Muslims involves killing Muslims because they’re Muslims?

And why would you be surprised when we repudiate that?

Leviticus (efada1) — 6/14/2016 @ 7:51 am

MD in Philly (cf3c76) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:27 am

Amen.

kishnevi (413847) — 6/14/2016 @ 8:00 am

“And the reflexive veering”

…Otherwise known as “analysis” or “thought”. I’m not the one reciting Soros-purchased talking points like a trained, hypnotized poodle, I’m just thinking out loud about the world. Could be wrong about anything at any time, but how would I know if I didn’t think out loud? The fact that my main opponents here are some of the stupidest, most witless people I’ve ever encountered doesn’t give me confidence about anything, but if imbeciles are against you, then you start to draw conclusions. Heck, I’m not even making pro-active “arguments” in favor of this or that, because I’m very skeptical about thought, not confident; I’m just committing the horrifying crime of noticing things. Something your fascist Bolshevik friend nk apparently wishes to hang me for.

hunson abedeer (cacaf3) — 6/14/2016 @ 8:03 am

Hunson, you are simply reciting talking points purchased by the other side.

And his point was that you sound like a certain troll who used to live under the bridge in this neck of the woods. So if you aren’t that troll maybe you should ask yourself why yoy sound like one.

kishnevi (413847) — 6/14/2016 @ 8:15 am

Dustin, I believe I asked you before if you voted for Barack Obama (once or twice)? Will you answer the question? Pardon me if you answered previously, I missed it if you did.

ropelight (596f46) — 6/14/2016 @ 8:15 am

kishnevi — reading comprehension, trying to actually understand what someone else is saying instead of squawking like a parrot, this would be a fine goal for you.

hunson abedeer (cacaf3) — 6/14/2016 @ 8:23 am

You know, if we can’t say “Islamic”, a fair synonym might be “homophobic imperialist”. Applies to those wanting to take territory to establish a new caliphate. Does NOT apply to a nation that recently gave back long-conquered territory in the Phillipines, Panama, Iraq, etc… or that has passed civil law enshrining protections for homosexuals. So, ISIS sympathizers are now to be called Homophobic Imperialist Terrorists — or H.I.T. men.

All right?

Pouncer (806511) — 6/14/2016 @ 8:42 am

ISIS of the womb.

Exactly.

Patricia (5fc097) — 6/14/2016 @ 8:43 am

It’s definitely Christoph. His most recent other handle is “it came from the nightside” which showed up several nights ago with Richard B. Spencer claptrap. Patterico keeps banning him and deleting his comments but he always comes back. He has an obsession with stalking this site.

nk (dbc370) — 6/14/2016 @ 8:48 am

“kishnevi — reading comprehension, trying to actually understand what someone else is saying instead of squawking like a parrot, this would be a fine goal for you.”

– hunson abedeer

This is a community, man. A lot of us have known each other (by our consistent names, which mean something to us) for a long time. We don’t always get along with each other, but we know who’s here in good faith and who isn’t. And we know the reputations that people here have earned (by the nature of their contributions, in their consistent names, over time). And kishnevi is one of our wise ones.

You are not here in good faith.

Leviticus (efada1) — 6/14/2016 @ 9:45 am

Neither are you.

ropelight (596f46) — 6/14/2016 @ 9:48 am

I would argue with you, ropelight, but ultimately the community decides (by its actions).

Leviticus (efada1) — 6/14/2016 @ 9:53 am

If I am one of the wise ones, we’re in a heap of trouble.

kishnevi (c5227a) — 6/14/2016 @ 10:03 am

MD in Philly (cf3c76) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:27 am

Still praying that neither devil prevails,
because the choice really is that bad,
not because an alternative is easily forthcoming

It’s probably easier to happen than you think, but we several more candidates – and I mean candidates – plural – for president. (no more than one #NEVER TRUMP #NEVER HILLARY candidate per state, though.)

Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 6/14/2016 @ 10:05 am

We’re in a heap of trouble either way, kishnevi.

Leviticus (efada1) — 6/14/2016 @ 10:16 am

#18

More violence has been committed in the name of a god or religion against those that follow a different religion than any other kind of violence. The world will be a far better place when humanity ditches all the fairy tales and myths.

Foo Bar (44481f) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:56 pm
==========================================

Millions of Russians and Chineses people would disagree with that contention. Oh… wait…

Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:00 pm

Communism & socialism are other forms of religion – even AGW science has become a defacto religion

Joe - From Texas (debac0) — 6/14/2016 @ 10:59 am

Leviticus @76 and @81: Fair enough. For once you’ve said some things worthy of respect, so, guess what? Now you’ve got my attention, and my respect. That wasn’t so hard, was it?

Not everybody reads blogs or writes on them in the same way. Myself, I’m a little flippant and cavalier because a) I can’t afford to be doctrinaire, as I’m way too skeptical of just about everything and b) because I consider this a sport and a pastime, not an address to the Fellows of the Royal Society. When we get too sincere and cemented in our beliefs, we tend to wind up with fanaticism. The monster Trotsky once argued, “He who says A, _must_ also say B.” That’s the sort of thing monsters tend to think.

There’s a lot of good political blogs out there, but very few that have a good conversational atmosphere in the threads; this is one of them. (Lots of good OP content on other blogs, and sometimes good insights in the comments, but too often not good conversation, just a lot of proclaiming.) I dunno, I tend to think a few light nudges with a dull stick can liven things up from time to time. And if that’s the worst that ever happens to ya, you’re living in style, my friend.

“Habit is the great deadener.” — Samuel Beckett

hunson abedeer (cacaf3) — 6/14/2016 @ 11:45 am

If you look at the heroes of the Thalys train, they were straight, Christian. They’d had a rowdy childhood and two were soldiers.
Not quite the thing in these days. You’d think they’d have been more evolved or something, and just laid down to die.

Richard Aubrey (472a6f) — 6/14/2016 @ 1:09 pm

…Communism & socialism are other forms of religion – even AGW science has become a defacto religion

Joe – From Texas (debac0) — 6/14/2016 @ 10:59 am

I can’t quote Solzhenitsyn word for word. In fact, if you are trying to memorize Solzhenitsyn line by line you’re going to miss the point.

But as he observed, any Joe Schmo can become a murderer.

But to kill millions takes an ideology.

I prefer that term to religion, as while a religion can also be an ideology, God had nothing to do with the murders.

Now is when someone needs to cue up some atheist misunderstanding the Old Testament, which is a whole nother kettle of fish.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 1:35 pm

Dustin, I believe I asked you before if you voted for Barack Obama (once or twice)? Will you answer the question? Pardon me if you answered previously, I missed it if you did.

ropelight (596f46)

I voted for Romney and Mccain. They were the more conservative and competent candidates, just as Hillary, who is awful, is this time, if she is running against Trump.

Romney was a very difficult vote as he’s a flip flopped as well, but at least he was a decent man and more competent than Obama.

I’m surprised you missed this as I’ve commented on it dozens of times. The blog has a search tool. The static ratio in this blog has gotten a little out of hand and I’m skipping over several commenters lately so I didn’t see your question.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/14/2016 @ 1:50 pm

I’m saddened by your lack of comprehension of what a communist is, Dustin.

LOL

You Trump fans are usually sad about stuff though so I won’t dwell on it.

Hillary is a poll following centrist. The only candidate who lavishes praise on commies is Trump, and he’s even openly campaigning for the Sanders vote (the socialists).

I’m sorry you like communists so much. Yeah, they often talk the best smack talk about how they are the great dear leader, but they ultimately seek to control us. I can’t think of a single area of policy, from trade to speech, where Trump doesn’t think like a communist, demanding control and ignoring the limitations imposed by our constitution.

Hillary is corrupt and totally unacceptable, but Trump is worse. As always, it’s a comparison. You can just pick the one that lies the most and has the R if you want. Free country for now.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/14/2016 @ 1:54 pm

Thanks for the civil reply Dustin. Those 2 got my votes too. Now, if we can both get on Trump’s bandwagon it’ll be 3 for 3. I know you’re not ready yet, but you’ve proved to be a good man. I’ll save a place for you on the victory platform.

ropelight (596f46) — 6/14/2016 @ 1:56 pm

My response to Dustin is in moderation. I know why and will change the offending words.

Thanks for the civil reply Dustin. Those 2 got my votes too. Now, if we can both get on Trump’s bandwagon it’ll be 3 for 3. I know you’re not ready yet, but you’ve proved to be an honorable man. I’ll save a place for you on the victory platform.

ropelight (596f46) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:00 pm

Sorry to triple post, but NK is right that the core problem with our country isn’t the politicians, but is the decedent culture.

The people obsessed with sleaze and celebrity. We’ve declined culturally and become a more ignorant, coarse society that builds a lot of gates and is fearful for our kids to walk through our streets.

Trump fans are often quite delighted to see evil done, as they were towards the Cruz campaign, his family, and other candidates. They’ve taken that towards Hillary, emboldened quite a bit by the idea that democrats aren’t fully people. I’ve been frustrated with democrats since I was a kid so I get where that comes from, but it’s pathetic. Particularly when in service of Trump, who said Hillary would be a great president. How do Trump’s fans think he is qualified to make judgments if he’s praised someone they say is terrible?

It’s because Trump fans think Trump was lying and being corrupt in his support of corrupt politics. Trump who has built an empire of sleaze and failed debt, instead of building something honorable or even productive. He sold smut and various get rich quick scams, ranging from gambling to his ‘university’ BS. He profits from each of the 7 deadly sins. He was accused of brutally raping his wife, and pulled health insurance to his own young, sick family member over a petty squabble. He boasted that he ditched the aging mother of his children in order to get a ‘hot piece of ass’ who was his employee, yet his fans complain about Monica Lewinksy, as though the sins of the husband belong to the wife who stuck with her marriage (even if solely for appearances).

And I’ve said it many times now, but Trump praises evil in dictatorships because he views using military power to control as a wise move. Trump is not wise and he is not moral. Trump is merely a symptom of our nation’s slide on moral standards, and if the GOP had such standards he would not/will not be the nominee.

Hillary at least does not roll around in the filth of her life. She has the decency to act like it’s bad. But then, she’s not a celebrity TV show personality. My fear is that Trump ushers in an age where those guys begin to rule us, campaigning on twitter to people who want to see the most BOLDCAPS.

I urge everyone to reject Trump at the ballot box, even if it means another terrible democrat. Trump represents a significant decline for our once great country. Stopping him in a devastating defeat will make a material difference in how politicians act in the future. Slapping historic loser on his nasty campaign is worthwhile. It’s not enough by any stretch and four years of Hillary would be difficult. But this is the best route short of nominating someone else.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:06 pm

Ropelight, I won’t change my mind. I didn’t like Mccain or Romney but Trump, to me, is not unlike voting for the devil himself just because he told me the right lies. It would be absurd.

To me, there is no possible victory this year. Hillary is a great loss while Trump is a terrible one.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:09 pm

she wants australian levels of gun confiscation, she has tried to shut down political speech on at least two occasions,

narciso (732bc0) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:10 pm

Yes, Citizens United being a good example, narciso. Not quite the same as calling for riots and violence at her rallies. Trump has engaged in lawfare too.

She’s a big gun grabber. But then, so is Trump.

Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:14 pm

and bassoulay, and her unconcern for undercapitalized business, the use of sid vicious, whose politics are equal to obama, yet personally detested, because it saves time,

narciso (732bc0) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:15 pm

the center for american progress, is her vehicle, originally,

narciso (732bc0) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:20 pm

Fwiw,
I don’t think H. Clinton is a poll following centrist, I think she is an Alinskyite from college and is as bad as the rest of them.
She may have appeared as a centrist, just as Obama said marriage was between a man and a woman,
and we know how that ended up.

Did you see where the (recently) current wife of the Orlando murderer was aiding and abetting?

MD in Philly (cf3c76) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:23 pm

yes, sadly this is a pattern going back aways, salafism becomes a family affair, the brother in law, has some interesting sentiments as well.

narciso (732bc0) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:28 pm

Failing to report knowledge a potential crime isn’t illegal, but assisting in the crime itself or conspiring to commit a crime is illegal. One early report had Mateen’s wife helping him surveil potential target sites, and another report had her driving him to Orlando on the night of the attack.

If so, she’s in need of legal representation.

ropelight (596f46) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:41 pm

Kudos to Obama for coming in off the front nine to deliver his speech and then not going out to play the back!!!

mg (31009b) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:45 pm

mg,

According to Governor Scott (earlier today) Barack still hasn’t telephoned him about the massacre.

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:50 pm

I’m sure he was catching up with the last game of thrones episode,

narciso (732bc0) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:54 pm

It’s an all too familiar pattern. Muslim clerics will not tell the police when they have reason to believe they are going to commit jihad.

But they want to police to say otherwise. They want to the police to give them credit that is entirely undeserved, for being the “first line of defense” against extremists when they are nothing of the sort. To fight the “Islamophobia,” which has become a word meaning understanding the reality of Islam. And while demanding the police credit them for doing what they refuse to do, they are quite open about why they refuse to do what they would have the police lie and say they are doing. If they were to actually do what they want the police of say they are doing, but are not, nobody in their congregation would trust them.

Similarly, family members like Mateen’s ex-wife would never rat on him. Well, almost never; it has happened but it’s rare.

It’s amazing how Muslims will circle the wagons to protect a fellow Muslim, while claiming that anyone who would do what their coreligionist that they’re protecting is planning to do or has done couldn’t possibly be a true Muslim.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:58 pm

CS,
bivoters coming of age with obama and clinton giving mouth service to the dunces.

mg (31009b) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:59 pm

obama says the way to beat isil is to break them financially. He should have them sign up for obama care.

mg (31009b) — 6/14/2016 @ 3:02 pm

Mateen had apparently separated from his wife. She is living in California.

Sammy Finkelman (be1e2f) — 6/14/2016 @ 3:09 pm

mg,

Also, today, Barack gave us a great lecture about how saying “radical Islam” isn’t a magical phrase and that it won’t “accomplish anything” by saying it publicly.
Uh, except for the little part about establishing the truth.

The funny thing is that the lefties are always b*tching and moaning that we’re declaring war on an “entire religion,” yet here’s a simple way to delineate the “peaceful” Muslims from the radicals, yet Barack rejects that.

One almost gets the notion that he doesn’t really want to defeat ISIS.

Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/14/2016 @ 3:12 pm

Mateen lived with his current wife and child in the Port Saint Lucie/Fort Pierce area on the Florida Atlantic coast, southeast of Orlando. His ex-wife lives in California.

ropelight (596f46) — 6/14/2016 @ 3:19 pm

One side wants our guns so we are defenseless against these muzzies and the other side wants to keep the muzzles out.

mg (31009b) — 6/14/2016 @ 3:41 pm

“A republic, madame, if you can keep it.” — Benjamin Franklin

He didn’t mean “keep” as in “continuing to own”, he meant it in the sense of constant maintenance, as in usages like “upkeep” or “housekeeping”. Are we keeping anything?

“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State…” — 2A

People here not so long ago properly clarified the real meaning of “well regulated” in this; what is frequently not clarified is the meaning of “security” here. It does not mean “safety” as in the modern sense, it refers to the verb “to secure” as in, to have, to obtain securely, to make sure that it is so. “The security of a free State” does not mean security as in “call security”, it means to have and maintain a state that is free, viz., to be a free people.

Are we securing anything?

hunson abedeer (cacaf3) — 6/14/2016 @ 4:04 pm

btw, completely OT (sorry), but it has long been a folk-story fantasy of mine that on the day of the Last Judgment, various contests will be held, one of them a contest for who had the best, most interesting life. I’m pretty sure Doctor Benjamin Franklin, diplomat, revolutionary, scientist, and printer, will make the Top Five.

Other suggestions?

hunson abedeer (cacaf3) — 6/14/2016 @ 4:08 pm

Saladin?

Leviticus (4ceaff) — 6/14/2016 @ 4:27 pm

Ex-wife’s bombshell claim: Club shooter was gay

http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/shooter-used-to-visit-orlando-gay-club-use-gay-dating-apps/

Wow.

EldonH (e0559f) — 6/14/2016 @ 4:53 pm

Yea, that was news before we learned what the current wife had to say…

Solomon had it right, a person’s story sounds good,
until you hear the other side.
And when everything you hear is third hand anyway,
hard to know what to believe.

MD in Philly (cf3c76) — 6/14/2016 @ 4:58 pm

Saladin?

Leviticus (4ceaff) — 6/14/2016 @ 4:27 pm

Actually when it comes to interesting, as opposed to admirable or exemplary, one of Saladin’s personal enemies was head and shoulders about him in the interesting department.

http://www.executedtoday.com/2009/07/04/1187-raynald-of-chatillon-by-saladin/

The guy was a shameless pirate. And some of the things he did, for sheer audacity you just have to kind of admire.

Like building ships on the Dead Sea, training up crews, then than dismantling the ships and hauling them on camels to what is now the port of Aqaba so he could reassemble them and attack Mecca.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:14 pm

If you go to the link you’ll see that the author refers to Reynald de Chatillon as the “douchebag French knight.”

That was probably one of the nicest things anybody ever said about Reynald. He was such a complete douchebag it was awe inspiring in many respects.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:22 pm

Interesting. Do you know if that was the first time that someone pulled off that particular naval maneuver (insofar as a full disassembly and reassembly, I mean)?

Leviticus (4ceaff) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:28 pm

I would guess not, but my knowledge of naval history is minuscule.

Leviticus (4ceaff) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:29 pm

ah he was played by brendan gleeson in kingdom of heaven, he was also the villain in safehouse,

narciso (732bc0) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:32 pm

Wish I knew more about Saladin, apart from his famous invention of salad. 🙂 I know he was a formidable military commander, but how long did he live? Did his life have any scope outside his military expertise?

I suppose another top contender has got to be Moses: Egyptian prince, renegade, liberator of his people, commander, and spoke with God personally. That’s gotta count.

And of course, Robert Plant. Who could actually play either Moses or Saladin, if they ever make another Egypt movie. Or a movie about salad.

hunson abedeer (cacaf3) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:41 pm

Leviticus, as far as I know it was the first and only time with that many ships, capable of ocean navigation.

It was basically a long portage, if you’re familiar at all with the mountain men and long hunters.

But it what they did doesn’t compare to de Chatillon’s expedition.

It required a unique type of naval construction. Those ships had to come apart and go back together without using nails or other similar fasteners. That’s one consideration.

Nobody really knows how he did it. Nobody can say with certainty what kind of ships he used, European ships or Arab dhows. Although logic would suggest if he wanted his raids to succeed he’d have used dhows so that they’d blend in with the other traffic on he Red Sea.

Which means not only was he a douche, he was pretty damned smart.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:44 pm

you know I can’t keep up with the cynicism,

https://twitter.com/CounterJihadUS/status/742781551868444672

narciso (732bc0) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:46 pm

By all reports the thieves and murderers de Chatillon hired to be his naval mercenaries had a rollicking good time.

Right up until they were captured and beheaded.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:47 pm

Yeah, portage is the reason I asked about the full disassembly/assembly factor. Very interesting. That’s almost cartoonish in its super-villainy, to do something so elaborate for the sake of pure piracy.

Leviticus (4ceaff) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:49 pm

ah he was played by brendan gleeson in kingdom of heaven, he was also the villain in safehouse,

narciso (732bc0) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:32 pm

I’ve never been able to endure that movie long enough to notice.

But I do know Raynald or Renaud or whatever of Chatillon was a significant figure in the history of Outremer. He was a real b*st*rd. But it was sort of refreshing, in my view, as he didn’t even try to fake piety.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 5:54 pm

1) Renaud was the man responsible for the destruction of the Crusader kingdom…or at least he gave Saladin a great excuse to destroy it.
2) Steve, that website is a rabbit hole.

kishnevi (050eae) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:14 pm

A morbid rabbit hole, but yeah I agree.

Leviticus (4ceaff) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:21 pm

http://www.islamiclandmarks.com/jordan/kerak-castle

…This is the Crusader castle in which resided Reynald-de-Chatillon (also known as Arnat), one of the worst enemies of the Muslims during the Crusades. It was taken by Salahuddin Ayyubi on the second attempt in 1189 CE.

…- Despite a truce between the Crusaders and Muslims, in 1186 Reynald attacked a caravan travelling between Cairo and Damascus. In the ensuing hostilities, Reynald launched ships on the Red Sea, partly for piracy, but partly as a threat against Makkah and Madinah, challenging Islam in its own holy places. His pirates ravaged villages up and down the Red Sea, before being captured by the army of Al-Adil only a few miles from Madinah and subsequently beheaded.

– Reynald’s rein in Kerak was characterised by wanton cruelty. Not only did he throw prisoners from the castle walls, he encased their heads in boxes first, in the hope that this would stop them losing consciousness before they hit the rocks below.

– Salahuddin swore that if Reynald was ever captured he would be executed by his own hands. In 1187, the Muslims defeated the Crusaders at the Battle of Hattin during which Reynald was taken prisoner along with King Guy, both of whom Salahuddin ordered brought to his tent. The chronicler Imad ad-Din al-Isfahani, who was present at the scene, relates: “Salahuddin invited the king [Guy] to sit beside him, and when Arnat [Raynald] entered in his turn, he seated him next to his king and reminded him of his misdeeds. “How many times have you sworn an oath and violated it? How many times have you signed agreements you have never respected?” Raynald answered through a translator: “Kings have always acted thus. I did nothing more.”

Saladin was as good as his word. Reynald was, to use the medieval English, the “compleat arsehole” right to the end.

Also, technically, crusader castles are not Islamic landmarks.

Apparently five ships were involved. The expedition almost went unmentioned in western sources. There was a relative rarity in a literate Frankish squire, Ernoul, to a Frankish nobleman, Balian of Ibelin, who attempted to record the event.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernoul#Biography

But he recorded it as if it were a scientific voyage of discovery. Like the voyage of the Starship Enetrprise. Ernoul wasn’t trying to cover up for any atrocities. Ernoul simply didn’t know what kind of man Reynald de Chatillon was.

All the available evidence is that Ernoul did not deliberately try to misrepresent events. He was a reliable reporter of other events. He did really think that Reynald de Chatillon had a legitimate interest in exploration and meeting new people and making friends.

There are more Islamic sources that report on the event. But of course they focus on the sheer outrage of the fact Reynald attacked Muslim holy sites. Which the Muslims, at the time, did not think was possible.

But nobody Muslim or Frank examined how Reynald pulled it off. The sheer logistical challenge and the endurance involved are staggering. Likely Reynald beached his boats at the mouth of Wadi Kerak, dismantled them, lashed them to his camels, then had them haul those ships up ten miles of steep, rocky canyon to Castle Kerak where the Roman road from Damascus to Aqaba ran by his front door.

If you noticed, Reynald plundered caravans. His castle was right on the caravan route. Which, when you think about it, really is the only one of the more logical places to put a castle. And Reynald just couldn’t resist all that temptation.

Then it was only an easy couple of hundred miles of ghor to Aqaba.

Yes, I’m kidding about the easy part.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:55 pm

2) Steve, that website is a rabbit hole.
kishnevi (050eae) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:14 pm

I have no reason to dispute that. I just thought I shouldn’t just keep linking to only sites I like.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:57 pm

Attacking that caravan was the excuse Saladin needed to attack the Crusaders.
And Kerak was almost impregnable. Even after he conquered Jerusalem it took Saladin two years of siege before it surrendered.
This gives a better idea of its size.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kerak_BW_1.JPG

kishnevi (050eae) — 6/14/2016 @ 7:06 pm

Please don’t confuse the fact I find de Chatillon interesting with the idea I respect him or anything.

If I had been alive back then I would have been sorely tempted to kill him myself.

Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 7:12 pm

Make abortion, not life. The popular leftist “final solution”.

As for “=”, they have a selective exclusion (i.e. pro-choice religion/moral philosophy) problem. Not unlike the gilded cannibals at Planned Parenthood.

Female chauvinism, even when obscured in the dark fringes of the twilight zone (and Planned Parenthood offices), fails to reconcile moral and natural imperatives.

n.n (d9054f) — 6/15/2016 @ 5:56 pm

6/13/2016

With This Level Of Stupid, I Don’t See How We Stand A Chance Against Radical Islamic Terrorists

131 Responses to “With This Level Of Stupid, I Don’t See How We Stand A Chance Against Radical Islamic Terrorists”

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