Patterico's Pontifications

6/12/2016

Gunman Opens Fire At Orlando Gay Bar, Possible Ties To Islamic Terrorism Being Investigated

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:08 am

[guest post by Dana]

UPDATE x6 BY PATTERICO: So we know that the man was once investigated by the FBI, had contacts with an overseas terrorist, and that one co-worker, Daniel Gilroy, said he “talked about killing people all the time.” This report says: “Gilroy quit after he said Mateen began stalking him via multiple text messages — 20 or 30 a day. He also sent Gilroy 13 to 15 phone messages a day, he said.” I see no red flags there. Obviously, the solution (helpfully offered by one New Republic lefty) is to ban all guns.

UPDATE #5: President Obama held a press conference a little while ago regarding the massacre. (Of which, Jim Geraghty rightly notes the irony of the president’s comments: “A guy on an FBI watch list pledged loyalty to ISIS and killed 50 people, and the president says this illustrates the need for gun control.”)

The president’s comments, in part [emphasis added]:

Today, as Americans, we grieve the brutal murder, a horrific massacre, of dozens of innocent people. We pray for their families, who are grasping for answers with broken hearts. We stand with the people of Orlando, who have endured a terrible attack on their city.

Although it’s still early in the investigation, we know enough to say that this was an act of terror and an act of hate, and as Americans we are united in grief, in outrage and in resolve to defend our people.

We’ve reached no definitive judgment on the precise motivations of the killer. The FBI is appropriately investigating this as an act of terrorism, and I’ve directed that we must spare no effort to determine what, if any, inspiration or association this killer may have had with terrorist groups. What is clear is that he was a person filled with hatred. Over the coming days will will figure out how and why this happened, and we will go wherever the facts lead us.

Today marks the most deadly shooting in American history. The shooter was apparently armed with a handgun and a powerful assault rifle. This massacre is therefore a further reminder how easy it is for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people in a school, or in a house of worship, or a movie theater, or in a nightclub. And we have to decide if that’s the kind of country we want to be. And to actively do nothing is a decision as well.

The president then went on to ask that Americans pray for the victims and their families “that God give them the strength to bear the unbearable, and that He give us all the strength and courage to change”.

UPDATE #4: NBC News spoke with the shooter’s father, who said this:

We are apologizing for the whole incident. We weren’t aware of any action he is taking. We are in shock like the whole country. This had nothing to do with religion.

However, according to the report, the father claims that “his son got very angry when he saw two men kissing in downtown Miami a couple of months ago, and says he thinks this may have caused this”.

UPDATE #3: Here is the actual video of Imam Muhammad Musri at the news conference. Also, in his comments, he says that “as a nation, we need to look at this issue of mass shootings,” and that something should be done about them. IOW, more gun laws:

UPDATE #2: A leader from the Islamic Society made this statement to the press:

Imam Muhammad Musri, leader of the Islamic Society of Central Florida, called on the media not to politicize the night’s event.

“I’m here today to stand as a faith leader with our law enforcement community and city leadership,” Musri said, adding, “I want to caution many in the media from rushing to judgment.”

UPDATE: Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer just released updated numbers:

50 killed & 53 injured in #Pulse nightclub shooting. Asking gov. to issue state of emergency.

************************************************************
Just horrible. Given that the investigation is still ongoing, details are likely to change.

From CBS News at this time:

A shooting and hostage situation early Sunday morning at a Florida nightclub — which describes itself as “Orlando’s hottest gay bar” — left multiple people dead, including the gunman, officials say.

Sources have confirmed to CBS News that authorities are investigating whether the suspect, who has been named as Omar Mateen, had ties to Islamic terrorism. Mateen is a U.S. citizen with no apparent criminal history, according to sources.

Orlando Police chief John Mina said “around 20″ people are believed dead inside the nightclub, although he and others were hesitant to provide firm numbers as the situation was still being assessed early Sunday morning.

Local hospitals report receiving at least 42 patients from the incident.

A U.S. intelligence source told CBS news senior investigative producer Pat Milton that Islamic terrorism is being investigated as a possible motive in the shooting due to several indicators including the style of the attack, which had similarities to the attacks in Paris in November 2015 and Brussels in March. The gunman put up a protracted gun battle with police and was heavily armed, the source said.

Robots are now analyzing a device the gunman had strapped to his body to determine if it was a real explosive device or a fake made to look like a real device, the source said.

Untitled

–Dana

445 Responses to “Gunman Opens Fire At Orlando Gay Bar, Possible Ties To Islamic Terrorism Being Investigated”

  1. I just can’t imagine what the surviving victims and all the families involved are going through on what should have been an innocuous Sunday morning in June.

    Dana (0ee61a)

  2. How much longer before Americans wake up to the absolute evil of the satanic death cult of islam?

    Pete (ceb4bf)

  3. Rep. Alan Grayson, Florida at news conference now:

    “It might be that we’ve seen a commission of an awful hate crime last night.” – Congressman @AlanGrayson

    Dana (0ee61a)

  4. A “Lone Wolf” of course. We cannot generalize based on the wolfpacks of lone wolves about Islam, but when it comes to one idiot gun with a gun (tragic and awflul) and legal gun owners, well…
    u
    And before the investigation begins in earnest we get a lecture for an Imam about how this doesn’t represent Islam.Words and profanity fail me here.

    Bugg (f10eb9)

  5. Horrible news and prayers for the family of the victims.

    If, and right now it’s only an if, this Omar turns out to be influenced by radical Islam I expect this story will immediately shift to a gun control angle with little to no discussion allowed to mention motive.

    Sean (9169b2)

  6. Florida is a concealed carry state, but I am going to go out on a limb and say the bar was a gun free zone.

    Tom Hynes (6cc6c9)

  7. First impression: another case of homegrown extremism. Weren’t all the people involved in the London Tube bombing born and bred in the UK? It’s not simply a matter of immigration…..

    oldirishpig (847652)

  8. It’s not simply a matter of immigration…..

    in_awe (faf180)

  9. The post before this was about political correctness. Being PC makes people feel good about themselves until they realize not everyone is PC and not everyone respects other people. It would be ironic if it weren’t so tragic.

    DRJ (15874d)

  10. Facts would appear to be that he was an anchor baby-born in US in 1986 to Afghan parents.

    Bugg (f10eb9)

  11. Updates being added.

    Dana (0ee61a)

  12. It’s illegal to carry in any place in Florida where the primary area serve liquor. That includes the workers who aren’t drinking.

    “Firearms regulations are uniform throughout Florida, and a carry license is valid everywhere other than in a few specially-defined areas. These specially-defined prohibited areas include:

    Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose.”

    NJRob (a07d2e)

  13. I think bars are gun free zones under Florida law. Scroll down to790.06 Section 12.(a.)12.

    DRJ (15874d)

  14. Twitter is pretty shameful right now. People with political motives are following that famous dictum of never letting a crisis go to waste.

    Simon Jester (cebcc7)

  15. It’s not simply a matter of immigration…..

    Thank you. I just wish more people understood the on-going push of Saudi based and funded Wahhabi sect in the US. This most virulent form of Islam is behind the establishment of most mosques Muslim schools and Muslim community centers in the US for the past few decades. In them they push textbooks and brochures with the worst kind of anti-Christian, anti-Semitic hate imaginable. Most people are also ignorant of the dual role of Islam as a religion and political ideology. We can never expect our government to address this challenge, but someone needs to be thinking how the 1st amendment rights to freedom of religion can be disentangled from the cloaking of the violent political ideology of Islam.

    in_awe (faf180)

  16. The left will go after guns and won’t mention a thing about the user of the gun because guns shoot themselves.

    Except in the case of a shooting in South Carolina. Then, it was a flag that did the shooting.

    NJRob (a07d2e)

  17. Twitter is pretty shameful right now. People with political motives are following that famous dictum of never letting a crisis go to waste.

    Simon Jester (cebcc7) — 6/12/2016 @ 8:11 am

    FIFM.

    NJRob (a07d2e)

  18. Thank you. I just wish more people understood the on-going push of Saudi based and funded Wahhabi sect in the US. This most virulent form of Islam is behind the establishment of most mosques Muslim schools and Muslim community centers in the US for the past few decades. In them they push textbooks and brochures with the worst kind of anti-Christian, anti-Semitic hate imaginable. Most people are also ignorant of the dual role of Islam as a religion and political ideology. We can never expect our government to address this challenge, but someone needs to be thinking how the 1st amendment rights to freedom of religion can be disentangled from the cloaking of the violent political ideology of Islam.

    in_awe (faf180) — 6/12/2016 @ 8:12 am

    In that aspect, islam is no different than communism. They both seek to subvert free will and control all of the people for the benefit of the leadership. Both ideologies seek to create hell on earth.

    NJRob (a07d2e)

  19. The fact that the authorities are already speculating about the shooter’s terror ties and past threats makes experts think he was on a watch list. If so, we should soon see someone from the Obama Administration say this was caused by an anti-gay video.

    DRJ (15874d)

  20. It appears the shooter had a concealed carry license.

    DRJ (15874d)

  21. Religion of Peace®

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  22. It’s not simply a matter of immigration…..
    oldirishpig (847652) — 6/12/2016 @ 8:02 am

    I don’t recall anyone at any time saying it was “simply” a matter of immigration or anything else. It is a matter of islam. It is a matter of allowing the cancer to come here, breed here and recruit here.

    12.Twitter is pretty shameful right now. People with political motives are following that famous dictum of never letting a crisis go to waste.
    Simon Jester (cebcc7) — 6/12/2016 @ 8:11 am

    They’re shameful? Why, are they blaming intolerant white Christians? Now that would be shameful Simon Jester.

    I’m still stunned the killers disobeyed a perfectly logical law about no firearms where whiskey is served. The nerve!

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  23. FBI investigation of Mateen opened and closed because nothing to see here.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  24. Barack will lecture us about rushing to judgment regarding the murderer’s motive in 3…2…1…

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  25. The media are calling this “a shooting.”
    No, this is an evil MASSACRE.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  26. “Mateen didn’t build that gun…”

    — Baraaaaack Obama

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  27. One thing that surprises me; been in a few nightclubs in Florida while on vacation in Miami and Orlando, albeit not this one. Despite the statute above,Every one employed armed off duty police officers as security at the door, if not physically in the club itself. Not scientific nor exhaustive, but simply because somebody is carrying a lot of cash at the end of the night and people who are drinking do some dumb things having an armed professional presence is a good thing. Was not donehere.

    Would disagree with NJRob only that while Soviet communism was bad it wasn’t crazy.

    Bugg (f10eb9)

  28. Clinton has proposed allowing 65,000 Syrian refugees into the country each year.

    happyfeet (831175)

  29. Licensed security guard, licensed to carry firearms in the state of Florida.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. If only Florida had a law on the books prohibiting murder, this massacre probably never would have happened.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  31. Uzbek wife, born in NY, had been subject of a now closed FBI investigation, daddy says gay men kissing made him angry, as if this is an understandable reaction to that behavior in others.

    Bugg (f10eb9)

  32. Largest terror attack in U.S. after 9/11. This isn’t a hate crime, just as ISIS throwing homosexuals off tall buildings in the Middle East aren’t hate crimes. This is a planned terrorist attack. They will kill any of US they can.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  33. Several video updates, one from top Florida imam calling for something to be done about these mass shootings, and another from NBC News with a statement from the shooter’s father who said his son had been upset a few months ago when he saw two men kissing in Miami. He attributed that as the possible motive for the massacre.

    Dana (0ee61a)

  34. Their way of celebrating Rama Lama Ding… er, Ramadan

    Loretta Lynch warning against the rise of Islamophobia in 3…2…1…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  35. I hope the police have located the gun, so it can be arrested, prosecuted, and sent to prison for the rest of its life.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  36. the propaganda sluts at NPR are trying to pimp this out as a “mass shooting”

    At least 50 people are dead and 53 injured, according to Orlando, Fla., police, after a shooting early Sunday morning at a popular gay nightclub. This is the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.

    they link this on their front page for context so you can understand why the muslim immigrant slaughtered 50+ people:

    The U.S. Has A Mass Shooting Epidemic, But No Government Database On Gun Violence

    yes yes yes this is a database administration problem, is what the National Soros Radio propaganda trash are using your tax monies for to say

    happyfeet (831175)

  37. I guess what i dont understand is why publish any articles at all or sweat over any of this?

    we have a candidate who has spoken out against all of the craziness of the corrupt clintons & RINOs and radical muslims and yet currently all sides of the political spectrum, republican and democrat, conservative & liberal, work against him i.e. Trump.

    He has warned about all of this cap for over a year.

    Yet all we have is outrage when he s peaks out against the injustices shown towards america and her citizens.

    yet, if clinton or romney were in the lead, not one group complaining against Trump now, would loose sleep that clinton or romney were going to be president. everyone would praise either of them as at least they aren’t trump and go back to sleep with no worries. just sad & pathetic.

    And it is exactly those two groups of politicians, the progressive liberal socialist democrats i.e. clintons, and the RINO progressive liberal socialist republicans, i.e. romneys, who have gotten us to the corrupted society we currently live in.

    really if you are working to insure Trump doesn’t become president i have no sympathy for you if you are further outraged by any of the news headline.

    you have a possibility to stop the madness that is neither a clinton or romney type of politican. at least you can give Trump a chance like you gave both Romney & Clinton when i didn’t hear anyone complain how progressive liberal socialist either of them were. I noticed we were told in the past and even in the present, to give both clinton and romney the benefit of our doubts. no one fought them so vehemently as they do, now, against Trump.

    we get the leaders we dont fight for. reap what you have planted & stop b*tching over your own mistakes.

    John (20e1e6)

  38. Post 28: Bingo! My thoughts and prayers to the families who lost love ones to a person whose “religion” trumps any divergent life style.

    mike191 (bf652f)

  39. romney tweetered that he is “deeply saddened”

    cause people were wondering hey what does Mitt Romney think about this

    happyfeet (831175)

  40. hf, the Syrian refugees are probably survivors of the rebel group that we “support” in northern Syria. The Russians have been waging real war* against them as a means of supporting Assad, while simultaneously discrediting the U. S. These failed warriors are Obama’s chickens come home to roost. Presumably these men have been trained in the use of weapons and explosives, which should give someone pause. But perhaps not …

    * The Russians have not been dropping leaflets in advance of their air strikes encouraging everyone to flee before the bombs start to fall. The Russians seem intent on killing their enemies in large numbers which puts this conflict in stark contrast to U. S. policy** for the past 7 years. The administration was expecting the combatants to evolve along the lines advocated by HteWon, but once again the administration’s narrative failed right at the point where the tire meets the pavement.

    ** U. S. policy is that drone strikes are the proper way to kill people, and then in small numbers and only in circumstances where a compelling narrative has been created ahead of time. Regrettably, wedding parties and other gatherings of improperly identified targets fit most of the narratives.

    BobStewartatHome (404986)

  41. “cause people were wondering hey what does Mitt Romney think about this”

    – happyfeet

    You were, apparently. And thought it important enough to share here.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  42. As Dennis Prager often says, the media deliberately uses language to soften atrocities committed by assailants whose politics/ethnicity entitles them to protection of the PC umbrella.
    That’s why they keep referring to Omar Mir Seddique Mateen as merely a shooter, rather than as a murderer.
    He actually murdered people — he didn’t just shoot a gun.

    If Mateen had murdered people with a knife, we wouldn’t constantly be referring to him as a “the stabber” or as “the knifer.”
    Sure, we’d say he stabbed people with a knife, but we’d characterize him as a murderer.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  43. Muslim + Gun-free zone = 50 murdered

    Leftist solution is to take guns away from law-abiding citizens.

    Leftism is a mental disease.

    Pete (0e517b)

  44. Since Sharia Law advocates the displacement of US Constitutional and common law, and Sharia Law is a component of the Religion of Peace, calling for the destruction of mosques should be considered. They immigrated here, they can immigrate elsewhere. On foot or in caskets.

    gbear (defc54)

  45. cause people were wondering hey what does Mitt Romney think about this
    happyfeet (831175)

    And yet here you are posting it. Have you ever taken a bet challenging you to not be an insufferable ass for more than ten consecutive seconds? I assume not since you’d clearly lose.

    Jack Klompus (af9dd7)

  46. if we stand with Mitt and nevertrump really hard we can stop Hillary “65,000 Syrian immigrants a year” from getting anywhere close to the White House Mr. Levi

    will you please stand with me and Mitt?

    happyfeet (831175)

  47. Mr happyfeet, nobody can ever explain to me why the Syrian refugees must be transported all the way over here to the land of America, when the truth is they would be so much better assimilated into a number of Arab states.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  48. the best argument i heard is we have to take them cause of the refugees are all failmerica’s fault

    This is cause of how food stamp dithered and red lined and ceded all regional influence to Putin and Assad

    happyfeet (831175)

  49. I’m not worried about 65,000 Syrians. I’m worried about one short-fingered vulgarian with his short little fingers on the Button.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  50. The latter is far, far more dangerous than the former.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  51. well that would be 260,000 unassimilated homophobic battle-hardened third whirl muslims in just her first term, which is like almost 40,000 more people than was killed in hiroshima and nagasaki combined

    just a lil context for you there

    happyfeet (831175)

  52. 46.The latter is far, far more dangerous than the former.

    The fellas at Pulse may disagree with you, Leviticus.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  53. For Leviticus, the black leather glove is key.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  54. Little Boy was a 15 kiloton atomic bomb. Modern W88 warheads have an estimated 475 kiloton yield. And there are thousands of them, stashed in various components of the mysterious “nuclear triad,” with which Il Douche is apparently unfamiliar.

    So, yeah. Trump is far, far more dangerous than your Syrian bogeymen.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  55. what does that even mean

    about the glove

    happyfeet (831175)

  56. my bogeymen are plenty dangerous mister

    PLENTY

    happyfeet (831175)

  57. Tell us more Liviticus, I’m sure the parents and friends of Omar Mateen’s victims are vitally interested in your attempts to shift the blame from the bloodthirsty Muslim murderer to Donald Trump.

    That’s what leftist turds do.

    ropelight (596f46)

  58. Unless investigators can uncover a direct order received by Omar Mir Seddique Mateen via certified mail from one of ISIS’ confirmed top lieutenants, we’ll be told that there’s no “tie” to Islamic extremism, and that this would never have happened had the NRA not once sponsored a billboard along the I-5 corridor, thereby causing Mateen to experience sub-conscious thoughts about slaughtering gay men on a Saturday night in June.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  59. i don’t think he’s shifting blame i think he’s saying he trusts hillary “65000 syrian immigrants a year” clinton more than Mr. Trump not to do the atomic bombs on people

    cause of hillary “65000 syrian immigrants a year” clinton has more better judgment i guess (?)

    i don’t agree personally cause i think she’s far far far more bellicose than Mr. The Donald, who has a rather strikingly out-sized preference for using negotiation to resolve conflict and advance his perceived interests

    happyfeet (831175)

  60. post46: To quote a young Yale student: “…what the fuck is wrong with you..”

    mike191 (bf652f)

  61. So, yeah. Trump is far, far more dangerous than your Syrian bogeymen.

    Mr. Levitius, the Donald or the Hillary does not have the ability to single handedly, unilaterally launch a thermonuclear war. You’ve been watching Dr. Stangelove too much. A lot of fail safes are built around that nefarious button you’re always worried about.

    However, I’m sure the parents of the guys murdered at Pulse don’t think of them as “Syrian boogeymen”. You need to recognize a viable threat even when it rubs your PC tendencies the wrong way.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  62. Trump’s “negotiation tactics” are the epitome of a scorched earth mentality. I don’t want to give him mankind’s preeminent tool for scorching actual earth.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  63. Hoagie, did I miss some indication that Mateen was Syrian? An immigrant? Or was he an American?

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  64. It’s called a non sequitur, happyfeet.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  65. That’s unfair he made big beautiful buildings not scorched earth

    big gorgeous buildings where people live and work and dream and strive and love and play and where sometimes, they look pensively out of the windows at the cityscapes of America thinking YES

    we can make her great again

    happyfeet (831175)

  66. I know you guys don’t like Trump, neither do I, but to elevate him from a potentially lousy President to a thermonuclear mass-murder is ridiculous.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  67. Can’t we get back to trans-gender bathrooms.

    AZ Bob (d6a3a9)

  68. What Hoagie said.

    Getting back to the subject at hand, the investigation is focusing on Mateen’s ties to “organized terror groups” very quickly. Generalized ISIS threat to Florida made just 3 days ago.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  69. I’m not worried about 65,000 Syrians. I’m worried about one short-fingered vulgarian with his short little fingers on the Button.
    Leviticus (1b20f0) — 6/12/2016 @ 9:35 am

    You do realize that ha you been somewhat worried about 65k Syrian refugees I wouldn’t be struggling with Der Donald as the GOP nominee. Thanks to peeps like you it was indecent to speak of the evil contained in that outflow. Along came Trump.

    You. Made. Him.

    Relatively speaking I had nothing to do with it. Take a bow, Leviticus.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  70. Syrian refugees would never be able to successfully assimilate into Saudi Arabia or Jordan or Iraq. So let’s send them to Iowa.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  71. Mateen’s ex-wife says he used to beat the hell out of her.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  72. “The FBI is already circling the wagons that Marteen was just ‘one of hundreds’ of ISIS,’ Patrick Poole adds. “This is not the first time that the gay community has been targeted by would-be jihadists. In fact, an imam speaking in Orlando in April said that killing gays according to Islamic law should be done ‘out of compassion.’”

    Read the whole thing.

    Related: “This appears to be the voter data on the terrorist (yes, he’s a registered Democrat).”

    More: Ex-wife of suspected Orlando shooter: ‘He beat me.’ ”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/236060/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  73. 58.Hoagie, did I miss some indication that Mateen was Syrian? An immigrant? Or was he an American?
    Leviticus (1b20f0) — 6/12/2016 @ 10:02 am

    No, you didn’t, Leviticus. You convoluted Syrian boogeymen with Donald Trump and I convoluted Syrian terrorists with Madeen. Fact is both Syrian terrorists and Madeen are moslems and they aren’t boogeymen. That was my point. The fact he is American in no way changes the fact he’s a moslem.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  74. No doubt the Syrian refugees have noticed how well the Arab countries have done with resettling Palestinian refugees.

    But note that Mateen was born in NYC to Afghan parents who themselves are apparently legal residents if not naturalized citizens.

    kishnevi (857e3e)

  75. Hoagie, if you really believe that Islam itself is so inherently dangerous as an ideology, how do you propose dealing with that danger within the confines of the First Amendment?

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  76. The Los Angeles Times says that the attack killed 50 people. That takes the prize for using the passive voice.
    The attack killed people? Wut?
    Obviously, the headline writer never took English 101.

    “Attack that killed 50 is worst mass shooting in U.S. history”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  77. Col H@63

    It may not be over yet.

    I suppose ISIS might want to honor the Farhudwhich occurred 75 years ago today (on the Jewish calendar), and South Florida has one of the biggest Jewish communities in the US (biggest community outside the TriState area, I think)

    kishnevi (857e3e)

  78. That is a very good question. You seem to have arrived at the conclusion that since we have a First Amendment no ideology can be illegal.

    Uhh, no. Not correct.

    Islam. If you know it.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  79. Islam is a religion of peace. Just look around the world, and you will find confirmation.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  80. Well done, Steve. You’ve clearly solved the problem. I’ll alert the Supreme Court.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  81. I’m not worried about 65,000 Syrians. I’m worried about one short-fingered vulgarian with his short little fingers on the Button.

    Leviticus (1b20f0) — 6/12/2016 @ 9:35 am

    How is this an “either or” situation in the mind of Leviticus? His odd PC mind seeks to find a way to avoid being concerned about Muslims. These kinds of non-sequiturs help him do that.

    Gerald A (7c7ffb)

  82. http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/suspected-gunman-in-florida-gay-club-mass-shooting-idd/

    “Shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS before Florida massacre”

    yet more people are still worried about Trump.

    pathetic & frightening.

    read the headline again, and remember this is/was an american born, parents were not citizens but immigrated here, who still felt the need to do this. yet we wish to have open borders for 100,000s.

    the cancer that the clintons, bushes and romney have unleashed onto the electorate is staggering that we still feel more afraid of a Trump than them.

    staggering the group think that exists and the propaganda that is coming out of all political party leaders & their followers at this time. even as rome burns will still want to go on with the status quo politically entrenched families.

    John (20e1e6)

  83. I wonder how Omar Mir Seddique Mateen felt about trans-gender bathrooms. If he didn’t embrace them, are we allowed to judge him for that?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  84. Actually I have solved the problem. And the Supreme Court does need to be notified.

    Which is why I’m pinning my hopes on Texas secession from the nation.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  85. Seriously, from a non-lawyer, the free speech issue is the same as how the law discriminates between non-specific rabble rousing and inciting a riot,
    but one has to be willing to ask the question.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  86. LAPD just arrested someone with heavy armament heading to a Gay Pride parade there

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  87. Arms, explosives and material to make pipe bombs.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  88. I don’t remember there being much of an ideological inquest from this quarter in the case of the Planned Parenthood shooter.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  89. Mateen allegedly shouted “allahu aflac!” during shootout with police.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  90. Freedom of religion, not speech, sorry.
    It is reasonable imposition on religion to force people to bake cakes for a wedding,
    but one must allow a religion to say it is good to kill gays
    (unless it was some self proclaimed Christian or Jewish person).

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  91. How is it, Leviticus, I can quote Muhammad. And you mock me in your ignorance. As if not knowing what you are talking about elevates you.

    How is that?

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  92. When have I mocked you for quoting Muhammad? I mock you for thinking that the First Amendment allows you to single out the religions you don’t like.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  93. I don’t remember there being much of an ideological inquest from this quarter in the case of the Planned Parenthood shooter.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)
    ================================

    Not much can be said to counter this level of willful ignorance.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  94. Or attribute shootings to the professed ideologies of the shooters in one incident, but not another.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  95. Leviticus does not “embarrass easy”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  96. He is not a serious-minded individual.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  97. Leviticus’ mention of Trump was not a non sequiter, and I don’t think it was a way of avoiding anything.

    The first mention of Trump was in comment #33, in which someone said:

    > if you are working to insure Trump doesn’t become president i have no sympathy for you if you are further outraged by any of the news headline.

    Leviticus’ comments were clearly a response to that.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  98. even with all of the evidence on what is the correct way forward, the politically & morally blind, the blind supporters of the entrenched political families of the last 40 years, still wonder how the ground around them burns, and where does the fire come from?

    all i can say is, burn baby burn. you put the match to it, suffer the consequences. blind is as blind does, and the violent-minded & committed will feed on your weakness and false security.

    John (20e1e6)

  99. I should probably just roll over, like you have. More pragmatic, right Colonel?

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  100. I mentioned Trump in response to happyfeet’s suggestion that Trump’s election was preferable to an influx of Syrian immigrants under a Clinton administration. Again: Trump supporters make the argument about Trump, then complain that the argument is all about Trump.

    Leviticus (1b20f0)

  101. “However, according to the report, the father claims that “his son got very angry when he saw two men kissing in downtown Miami a couple of months ago, and says he thinks this may have caused this”. ”

    And we’re to believe this was the first time Mateen had ever seen two men in a public display of affection?!?! If I had a dollar for every time I’ve witnessed one, I’d be a retiree.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  102. i are not complain

    happyfeet (831175)

  103. Leviticus? You can liberally apply some KY and eff yourself for all I care. You’re a hopeless case.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  104. Leviticus once again misrepresents me.

    My problem with Islam is that it is a totalitarian ideology.

    The religion aspect of the totalitarian bitch I have no problem with.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  105. It’s like a game of rock, paper, scissors.
    And in the minds of the left wing media, angry Islamic extremists will always triumph over the dead bodies of homosexuals who were dancing on a Saturday night.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  106. 70.Hoagie, if you really believe that Islam itself is so inherently dangerous as an ideology, how do you propose dealing with that danger within the confines of the First Amendment?

    “Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger.

    I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Islam on Thursday, September 11, 2001 at state of war has existed between the United States and all Islamic States and People.”

    Just like FDR did. With full prejudice. At that point they have 72 hours to leave American soil or report to their local City Hall for a loyalty oath and to deny Islam.

    The Constitution, it is said, is not a suicide pact. Unless you allow leftists to make it one. Americans have a sort of right to freedom of religion. They don’t have a right to practice a religion that is actively engaged in the violent overthrow of our country and the murder, by religious tenant, of our people.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  107. that’s vituperative what you said Mr. Colonel

    don’t get it twisted

    some people prefer the pee lady some people prefer Mr. Trump

    it’s like red velvet oreos

    personally i can hardly tell the difference between the red velvet ones and the regular ones

    happyfeet (831175)

  108. Who trucks or finds common cause with happyfeet!?!? That is highlarious, you little bong huffer, you!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  109. “The headline here is that they’ve moved to soft targets.”

    — Catherine Herridge

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  110. TOTUS don’t fail me now!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  111. #NeverTrump supporters make the argument about Trump, then complain that the argument is not about Trump but something else.

    The “something else” in this slaughter is national security and the only candidate who has a method is Trump: the politically entrenched dont want to give him a chance, even after the liberal republican & democrat entrenched political families have failed over the last 40 years.

    If someone else had a plan to protect the nation I could see its not about Trump. But none else does have a plan to protect the nation but Trump.

    Hence the #NeverTrump supporters make the argument about Trump.

    #NeverTrump = #NeverProtecUSA

    John (20e1e6)

  112. Many adherents to Islam simply want the United States of America to look more like that garden state of Saudi Arabia — why would anyone object?

    Come on, guys, who among you will deny that women drivers are a problem in society. Can I get an Allahu Akbar!?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  113. Obama’s eyes twitched noticeably when he praised law enforcement, some other platitudes and then focused on guns, because we all know guns shoot guns. No emotion, no anger.

    He is disappointed in Muslims, don’t they understand his greatness.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  114. South Florida is gay friendly and has a high population of gays in some areas, but I can’t remember more than a dozen times over the last decade that I have seen gay couples holding hands, and only once seen a gay couple engaged in kissing in public. And that was in Miami Beach. And I live here. Mateen was living in a part of Florida that is not rural but not nearly as metropolitan as Miami. It is about two and a half hours north of me.

    So I find it quite believable that was the first time Mateen had seen such behavior.

    I guess California is more “sophisticated” than Florida.

    kishnevi (b58549)

  115. Political pablum… talk of hatred, nothing about the ideological threat, radical Islam.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  116. “Mateen was living in a part of Florida that is not rural but not nearly as metropolitan as Miami. It is about two and a half hours north of me.”

    What is the likelihood Mateen stayed in Port St. Lucie 24/7/365?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  117. Colonel Haiku, the call to prayer is the most beautiful sound there is. Even one of our nation’s Presidents agrees with that sentiment!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  118. LAPD just arrested someone with heavy armament heading to a Gay Pride parade there.

    Here is the Dog Trainer’s coverage of that development.

    And The Gateway Pundit claims that ISIS had announced that Florida would be attacked three days ago. Take that for what you will.

    JVW (eabb2a)

  119. Barack’s right.
    Guns are bad, and they are a huge problem.
    That’s why Iran needs to have nukes — just in case they were to get attacked by some hunters from Peoria.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  120. If someone else had a plan to protect the nation I could see its not about Trump. But none else does have a plan to protect the nation but Trump.
    Ahem, Trump’s plan is ban all Moslems from traveling into or out of the US until he can get his experts to figure out a plan.

    Which would not impede anyone traveling from Port St Lucie to Orlando. Don’t even need to cross a state line for that.

    kishnevi (b58549)

  121. Again, the first mentions of Trump came from Trump supporters, not Trump opponents.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  122. I mentioned Trump in response to happyfeet’s suggestion that Trump’s election was preferable to an influx of Syrian immigrants under a Clinton administration. Again: Trump supporters make the argument about Trump, then complain that the argument is all about Trump.

    Leviticus (1b20f0) — 6/12/2016 @ 10:51 am

    I stand corrected. I figured it was like all your other non-sequiturs…

    I don’t remember there being much of an ideological inquest from this quarter in the case of the Planned Parenthood shooter.

    Leviticus (1b20f0) — 6/12/2016 @ 10:41 am

    Or attribute shootings to the professed ideologies of the shooters in one incident, but not another.

    Leviticus (1b20f0) — 6/12/2016 @ 10:46 am

    And your point is what exactly? Is it just that people here don’t seem consistent to you, or something else?

    Gerald A (7c7ffb)

  123. Leviticus,
    Most of us do not bother to try to reason with happy feet, and his enthusiastic support of Trump is shared by I think at most 3 others that post here.
    Engaging in serious debate with him throws ever body off.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  124. More exactly, how likely was he to have regularly travelled to South Florida–a two-three hour trip each way?

    To repeat, I live here and rarely see gay PDA. My area is gay friendly compared to many others. So I find it very believable that a person from mid Florida would encounter it even less

    kishnevi (b58549)

  125. So, MD, NeverTrumpanzies are engaging in serious debate, who knew?

    ropelight (596f46)

  126. aphrael,
    Same as to Leviticus.

    Most of us ignore hf, if one wants to make comments for the benefit of the rest of us, just ignore him.
    Same with “Trump supporters”
    There are only 3-4 here including hf,
    There are many who will vote for Trump as opposed to Clinton,
    but the comparison is between an impacted wisdom tooth with 3 roots vs. 4.

    I will say though, as I have said before, had the people in positions of responsibility been more sympathetic to the reasonable concerns of the public over the reality of violent jihad,
    there would have been no reason for Trump to arise.
    That is just how it is.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  127. The imam who spoke at the press conference, has a curious history (ht Patrick Poole)

    narciso (732bc0)

  128. Indeed, ropelight, by your own admission you aren’t being serious, using inaccurate labels as your main point.
    Later all.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  129. MD in Philly – I’m not talking about happyfeet, I’m talking about John, and I’m angrily protesting the notion that the anti-Trump types brought Trump into the discussion, because *we didn’t*.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  130. Speaking of Trump, I’ll be interested in seeing how he uses this incident to his advantage. If he just says “I’ll do a better job against terrorism” he’s actually not using this to make all the points that he could (on political correctness for example).

    To bring up Cruz once again, one difference between him and Trump is that Trump makes everything about himself, while Cruz seeks to make a larger point.

    Gerald A (7c7ffb)

  131. I’ve updated the post with President Obama’s remarks. He did not let this crisis go to waste.

    In part:

    Today marks the most deadly shooting in American history. The shooter was apparently armed with a handgun and a powerful assault rifle. This massacre is therefore a further reminder how easy it is for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people in a school, or in a house of worship, or a movie theater, or in a nightclub. And we have to decide if that’s the kind of country we want to be. And to actively do nothing is a decision as well.

    The president then went on to ask that Americans pray for the victims and their families “that God give them the strength to bear the unbearable, and that He give us all the strength and courage to change”.

    Dana (0ee61a)

  132. Sorry, aphrael,
    I was going by the post above where Leviticus was responding to hf.
    I don’t think I remember seeing John before.
    My main point remains the same in that there are very few true Trump supporters around, mainly people who are by default for Trump because they are anti Clinton.
    Anything written to or about “Trump supporters” I ignore, because I am not one, though here in PA come November I will be voting for whoever has the most chance of defeating the representative of the party of Obama and the Clintons.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  133. Maybe someone should just ask the president what law exactly should we have that would have prevented this. He has spoken about it enough, let him produce the goods.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  134. this must make poor food stamp feel terribly impotent, cause nobody gives a crap about his swishy simpering gun control bleatings

    happyfeet (831175)

  135. If we had a press corps worth the name, another known wolf with a legitimate carry permit,

    narciso (732bc0)

  136. …I guess California is more “sophisticated” than Florida.
    kishnevi (b58549) — 6/12/2016 @ 11:07 am

    That’s one of he kinder terms applied to the golden state, which has litigated the public wearing of the ball ring.

    I am afraid to give a thumbs up to anything Kali because, Kali. And my thumb, witch I’d have to chop off.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  137. Its an excuse, like the messianic Jew’s argument with the San Bernardino shooter,

    narciso (732bc0)

  138. Drudge is reporting that the gun has been arrested.
    Thank God — and Allah, too!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  139. http://www.maritime.org/pamphome.htm

    USS Pampanito (SS-383) is a World War II Balao class Fleet submarine museum and memorial that is open for visitors daily at San Francisco’s Fisherman’s Wharf. (Hours and Directions)…

    I feel for these people. I really do. But it is San Fransisco an that destroys everything.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  140. I’m endlessly fascinated by people who find no difficulty in contemplating the full-on destruction of a constitutional right (via “gun control”), but if you, even in simply a satiric spirit for purposes of comparison, suggest similarly “reasonable” restrictions on speech or on religion, these same arseholes immediately shriek FIRST AMENDMENT! CONSTITUTION! FIRST AMENDMENT! BILL OF RIGHTS! LEAVE MY ISLAM ALONE! As a proud American who has lived in this country for nearly three months, I DEMAND MY RIGHTS!!

    hunson abedeer (cacaf3)

  141. The father was a Afghan presidential candidate, somewhat like clock boy’s pop.

    narciso (732bc0)

  142. I realize that many of our left wing friends (and enemies!) don’t care for the 2nd Amendment, but I would encourage them to just think of peaceful private gun ownership the same way they embrace peaceful nuclear development by the mullahs of Iran.
    It’s all about peace. And fairness!

    Besides, you never can predict when two men might start kissing each other in public.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  143. If the Golden State Warriors win the NBA championship tonight, I bet there’s going to be a lot of hugging among men, both on and off the court.
    Maybe even in some sports bars, too.
    I just hope that Imams at mosques across the country warned their attendees about it this past Friday!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  144. Now one wonders what could have motivated him in his cultural milieu toward this behavior, indeed a riddle?

    narciso (732bc0)

  145. Tomorrow night, CS.

    Entonces y con su permiso, gotta grab a quick lunch, cuz I’m late for teh Rush to Judgement.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  146. …restrictions on speech or on religion, these same arseholes immediately shriek FIRST AMENDMENT! CONSTITUTION! FIRST AMENDMENT! BILL OF RIGHTS! LEAVE MY ISLAM ALONE! As a proud American who has lived in this country for nearly three months, I DEMAND MY RIGHTS!!
    hunson abedeer (cacaf3) — 6/12/2016 @ 12:19 pm

    And!

    All the strippers when I was twenty!

    Are not twenty somethings!

    Feel the Bern!

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  147. “I’m angrily protesting the notion that the anti-Trump types brought Trump into the discussion, because *we didn’t*.

    aphrael (3f0569) — 6/12/2016 @ 11:33 am
    =======================================

    Simmer down, aphrael, or you might blow an O-ring…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  148. Colonel Haiku,

    It’s tomorrow night?
    Sheesh. I was looking forward to watching it tonight!
    Go Warriors!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  149. #125 aphrael,

    Are you angrily protesting that an ISIS sympathizer massacred at least 50 people at a gay nightclub?
    Or are you solely in the mood for protesting sleepy anonymous Trump-supporting commenters at a blog?
    I think it’s a fair question.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  150. this was a calculated kill on so many levels by this son of Mohamed. Chose a venue more likely to be lightly armed, and a victim group many would be embarrassed to pray for on a Sunday morning (thus far, only TX Lt. Gov Dan Patrick has taken the bait on that regard: http://m.chron.com/news/article/Texas-Lt-Governor-Dan-Patrick-tweets-reap-what-8076147.php .

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  151. “AFTER ORLANDO TERRORIST ATTACK, USUAL SUSPECTS SPOUT USUAL NARRATIVE:

    Tom Brokaw: ‘In this County,’ ‘Everything Seems to Get Settled by a Gun.’
    ABC Blames Orlando Terror on Election Rhetoric and Guns in America
    AP Calls Orlando Terrorist Massacre ‘Just the Latest Mass Shooting’
    Media Matters: “The NRA made anti-LGBT attacks during their annual meeting just weeks ago.”
    Yahoo: “Bernie Sanders Just Nailed the Real Culprit Behind the Mass Shooting in Orlando…Sanders explained to Chuck Todd on NBC’s Meet the Press Sunday, the real culprit, according to Sanders, is gun control — or more precisely, lack thereof.”
    Kansas City Star Editorial Writer Yael T. Abouhalkah: “Dear God: Today I am so sickened by the evilness of the NRA and gun industry. May their leaders be plunged into ever-lasting hell. Amen.”
    Jeffrey Goldberg: “Obama cautious on motive of shooter because caution is required until the investigation advances.”
    UPDATE: Transcript of Obama’s boilerplate speech on the incident.

    Related: Trump Blasts Obama For Not Mentioning “Radical Islamic” Terrorism As ISIS Claims Responsibility.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/236067/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  152. At this point I’m cool with Trump dropping the adverb before the adjective.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  153. Swede Vejtasa was a man to be remebrered.

    Unlike me and prowlerguy.

    Poke around if you like.

    http://acepilots.com/usn_aces.html

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  154. Barack said this;
    This massacre is therefore a further reminder of how easy it is for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people in a school or in a house of worship or in a nightclub. And we have to decide if that’s the kind of country we want to be. And to actively do nothing, is a decision that’s wrong.”

    Oh God, this is the sick, sick, sick, left wing passive voice mindset.
    Look what Barack said; “…a weapon that lets them shoot…

    No weapon “lets” anyone shoot.
    A human being must intentionally pull the trigger. Israel didn’t make Mateen do it, the NRA didn’t make Mateen do it, and a bunny rabbit in a meadow didn’t make Mateen do it — he made the conscious decision to slaughter human beings with a gun which he obtained legally.
    This is the problem with left wing ideology — they don’t embrace ‘free will.’ They always ascribe fault to a second or third party.

    The gun isn’t the problem — the person is.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  155. Tommy Christopher removes all doubt, again,

    narciso (732bc0)

  156. I believe I have firmly established that prowlerguy and those like prowlerguy can well and truly blow me. That said.

    http://navalaviationnews.navylive.dodlive.mil/2013/05/09/swede-vejtasa-in-memoriam/

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  157. For a lot those in power with armed guards, this was an act of human caused funplace violence. I notice the same leaders rarely speak of the right wing suicide vest lobby.

    gbear (defc54)

  158. I always wondered when our adversaries would no longer be “amateurs” but professionals:
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/06/omar-mateen-worked-for-company-that-provides-security-to-federal-buildings.php

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  159. I you want to be blown by prowlerguy then Pulse may be the club for you.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  160. The shooter was apparently armed with a handgun and a powerful assault rifle. This massacre is therefore a further reminder how easy it is for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people in a school, or in a house of worship, or a movie theater, or in a nightclub. And we have to decide if that’s the kind of country we want to be. And to actively do nothing is a decision as well.

    Because, you know, none of this would have happened if he hadn’t been able to access a firearm. I mean, it’s not as if crazy Moslems would ever do something like a strap explosive devices to themselves and blow up a gay nightclub. Nope, if not for the existence of guns no one would have been hurt.

    JVW (eabb2a)

  161. Meanwhile, the reaction of Liberals throughout Cyberspace is as follows:

    “Yeah, well, Christians are just as bad!”

    Deuce Frehley (73c323)

  162. Guess who the shooter worked for? I mean, since he was a known Islamic hothead, what kind of job could he get? Nothing sensitive, right?

    These folks: http://www.g4s.us/en-US/

    And according to Judicial Watch and Zerohedge, gues which company is responsible for settling the overflow of illegal immigrants around the country?

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/orlando-shooter-worked-security-company-which-tranports-illegal-immigrants-deep-insi

    This country is in the best of hands. I do NOT want Donald Trump as president, but it wure would be fun having him run the INS.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  163. How can an ideology be illegal, Steve57?

    DRJ (15874d)

  164. That’s what amendments are for.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  165. From Reuters:

    Islamic State claimed responsibility on Sunday for the worst mass shooting in U.S. history, but U.S. officials said they had seen no immediate evidence linking the militant group to the massacre in Orlando, Florida.

    Islamic State’s claim was carried by Amaq, the organization’s news agency.

    “The armed attack that targeted a gay night club in the city of Orlando in American state of Florida which left over 100 people dead or injured was carried out by an Islamic State fighter,” said the Amaq statement.

    Dana (0ee61a)

  166. Muy malo.

    Keep me honest, DRJ.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  167. If the ideology is to kill people, as I said above, the question is when things become active inciting violence.
    If it was some fringe supposedly Christian group their headquarters would have already been raided.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  168. @1. “I just can’t imagine what the surviving victims and all the families involved are going through on what should have been an innocuous Sunday morning in June.”

    Bull. Did you sleep through Sandy Hook? And those were children.

    DCSCA (a343d5)

  169. At least many left wingers are honest in their refusal to condemn the slaughter of 50 homosexuals by a deviant woman-beating Islamic jihadist.
    Some of them will claim to be upset, but most of them will predictably stay in line and recognize it’s a presidential election year, and that the real enemy is Christians who vote Republican.
    Of course, if Ann Coulter had made a cheeky remark about gays on television, then there would have been marching in the streets and “outrage.”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  170. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vev-OzHQy94

    was aired in April 2016

    If you want to see how many of the lefties (e.g. Clinton/Bernie fans) view this see the comments from the DU at http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027902586 – many from today.

    Interesting that the killer is a registered democrat….per the left tactic of equating affiliations with bad things I think it is fair to say Democrats support Islamic violence against gays…. /full sarcasm

    Would love to see how the couple of lefties at this site justify the moral equivalency. I think we may be one or two “events” from a full blown panic and perception that the democrats really do not care what happens to the citizens.

    vor2 (494009)

  171. failmerica

    needz moar searyums

    happyfeet (831175)

  172. Ted Cruz’s statement on the terror attack/mass murder:

    “Our nation is at war. From 9/11 to the Boston Marathon, from Fort Hood to Chattanooga, from San Bernardino to last night’s horrific attack in Orlando, radical Islamic terrorism has declared jihad on America. Early reports indicate the Orlando terrorist had pledged his allegiance to ISIS, and he had previously been investigated by the FBI. And yet, as with the prior attacks, we were not able to act to stop this act of vicious terrorism that has now murdered 50 and injured more than 50 others.
    Our hearts go out to those killed and wounded last night. Our prayers are with their families, and with all their grieving loved ones.

    It is a time for action. We need a Commander in Chief who will speak the truth, and who will unleash the full force and fury of the American military to utterly destroy ISIS and its affiliates. We need to pass the Expatriate Terrorist Act, so that known ISIS terrorists cannot use U.S. passports to return to America and wage jihad. We need a President who is serious – who will identify the enemy by name and do everything necessary to defeat it.

    The next few days will be sadly predictable. Democrats will try to use this attack to change the subject. As a matter of rigid ideology, far too many Democrats – from Barack Obama to Hillary Clinton – will refuse to utter the words ‘radical Islamic terrorism.’ They will claim this attack, like they claimed every previous attack, was isolated and had nothing to do with the vicious Islamist theology that is daily waging war on us across the globe. And they will try to exploit this terror attack to undermine the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms of law-abiding Americans.

    Enough is enough. What we need is for every American – Democrat and Republican – to come together, abandon political correctness, and unite in defeating radical Islamic terrorism.

    ISIS doesn’t just target soldiers. They don’t just target Republicans. Or Jews. They also target Christians and fellow Muslims. They target each and every one of us. As we saw this morning, they target the gay and lesbian community. Their objective, which they broadcast worldwide, is to murder or forcibly convert every single American.

    For all the Democrats who are loud champions of the gay and lesbian community whenever there is a culture battle waging, now is the opportunity to speak out against an ideology that calls for the murder of gays and lesbians. ISIS and the theocracy in Iran (supported with American taxpayer dollars) regularly murder homosexuals, throwing them from buildings and burying them under rocks. This is wrong, it is evil, and we must all stand against it. Every human being has a right to live according to his or her faith and conscience, and nobody has a right to murder someone who doesn’t share their faith or sexual orientation. If you’re a Democratic politician and you really want to stand for LGBT, show real courage and stand up against the vicious ideology that has targeted our fellow Americans for murder.

    Today, all of America stands in solidarity with the people of Orlando. All of us should lift them up in prayer, demand action, and if you have any information about the Orlando shooter or potential radical Islamic terror plots, please act to keep us safe by using the FBI tips website: https://tips.fbi.gov. “

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  173. And Donald Trump’s…

    “Last night, our nation was attacked by a radical Islamic terrorist. It was the worst terrorist attack on our soil since 9/11, and the second of its kind in 6 months. My deepest sympathy and support goes out to the victims, the wounded, and their families.
    In his remarks today, President Obama disgracefully refused to even say the words ‘Radical Islam’. For that reason alone, he should step down. If Hillary Clinton, after this attack, still cannot say the two words ‘Radical Islam’ she should get out of this race for the Presidency.

    If we do not get tough and smart real fast, we are not going to have a country anymore. Because our leaders are weak, I said this was going to happen — and it is only going to get worse. I am trying to save lives and prevent the next terrorist attack. We can’t afford to be politically correct anymore.

    The terrorist, Omar Mir Saddique Mateen, is the son of an immigrant from Afghanistan who openly published his support for the Afghanistani Taliban and even tried to run for President of Afghanistan. According to Pew, 99% of people in Afghanistan support oppressive Sharia Law.

    We admit more than 100,000 lifetime migrants from the Middle East each year. Since 9/11, hundreds of migrants and their children have been implicated in terrorism in the United States.

    Hillary Clinton wants to dramatically increase admissions from the Middle East, bringing in many hundreds of thousands during a first term — and we will have no way to screen them, pay for them, or prevent the second generation from radicalizing.

    We need to protect all Americans, of all backgrounds and all beliefs, from Radical Islamic Terrorism – which has no place in an open and tolerant society. Radical Islam advocates hate for women, gays, Jews, Christians and all Americans. I am going to be a President for all Americans, and I am going to protect and defend all Americans. We are going to make America safe again and great again for everyone.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  174. I think we may be one or two “events” from a full blown panic and perception that the democrats really do not care what happens to the citizens.

    What indication have the democrats ever given.in the real world not the world of words but of deeds, that they “care what happens to the citizens”? Raising Minimum wage kills jobs for he poor, do they care? Abortion as birth control murders babies unnecessarily, do they care? Men in girls rest rooms, locker rooms etc. put children at risk of predators, do they care. I could go on with another twenty easy examples before I’d actually have to think hard. They’re all talk and no walk.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  175. Kevin M, sure seems like a lot of radicals work in security or at airports. Is that a coincidence, or is it a plan?

    Hollywood has considered the same thing.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/watch/london-has-fallen/vi-BBo3Lsz

    Patricia (5fc097)

  176. why do we need a Ted Cruz statement on Orlando

    oh my goodness what a self-important goof-ass him and Mitt Romney should hook up for so they can exploit the crap out of this sort of thing while enjoying reduced overhead costs

    happyfeet (831175)

  177. Vor2, I read the comments, and they fall into two categories
    1) Fundamentalist Christians are just as bad about homosexuality
    2) Comments about Islam which might have been made by a number of people here, including Rev. Hoagie and Steve57.
    There is a small subset of 2, which answer 1 by pointing out it was a Moslem who was the killer.

    And none of them blamed the gun. In fact the closesr to blaming the gun was this guy

    61. We need to be honest, and not in denial that Fundamentalist Islam motivated this —–.
    Everybody wants to spin this with their particular blind spot in mind- the gunny gun crowd doesnt want to talk about easy access to high-powered weaponry, the homophobes don’t want to talk about anti-LGBT hate, and people on our side may fall prey to the temptation to paper over the obvious connections to radical islam and, yes, terrorism.

    Edited slightly in deference to the Filter.

    kishnevi (10c258)

  178. Did you see the video of the imam in Orlando preaching that gays should be killed out of compassion, for their own good?? Why is this man not under arrest? Why is the mosque not being investigated?

    Oh, and great statement by Cruz.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  179. …the gunny gun crowd doesnt want to talk about easy access to high-powered weaponry, the homophobes don’t want to talk about anti-LGBT hate, and people ion our side may fall prey to the temptation to paper over the obvious connections…

    It’s like you know me.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  180. kishnevi, here is a comment on that same video by BingBong (I think)

    The problem in america is not the Muslims (who apparently according to you americans are all terrorists). The problem is guns. You people need to stop trying to blame everything on the person: oh, he had a mental disorder it was his fault: oh, he is a Muslim he is a terrorist that’s why he killed people. The simple fact is, if people didn’t have guns and didn’t have access to guns, there would be no mass shootings. That is americas problem.
    For those of you who want a gun as protection: why should you have protection in the form of a deadly weapon.
    This kind of shit keeps happening over and over but you americans cant let go of your “right to bare arms”.
    “Ooh but its not the guns its the people” fucking hell, your country is doomed.

    Read more

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  181. Mr. Trump did a great statement Teddy-pie per usual got all hung up on the gay thing

    He’s just so awkward.

    happyfeet (831175)

  182. Left wingers don’t need to sell their soul, because he’s already in them.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  183. “What indication have the democrats ever given.in the real world not the world of words but of deeds, that they “care what happens to the citizens”?”

    Oh, they care plenty, just not about the things you think they should care about. Always remember: leftists are motivated primarily by irrational hatred (a redundancy, but you get the idea), by what Nietzsche called “ressentiment”. They care a very great deal: they care about destroying people like YOU.

    They hate you and they want you dead, so that they can create some imaginary Democratic Peoples Republic of Unicorn Farts, where it rains donuts, exotic ethnic food and welfare checks, where Robot Morgan Freeman is always president, and most importantly, there are no hideously competent, Christian white people.

    Look at this already: Muslim fanatic slaughters dozens of gay people. MSM response —-> blame guns, the NRA, and those evil str8 white Xtians. Analysis, true argumentation, subtlety, honesty, detail: all of these things are impossible with leftists.

    Just look at shallow retards like Leviticus.

    hunson abedeer (cacaf3)

  184. do we have a statement from david french yet?

    i just don’t know what to think about all this

    happyfeet (831175)

  185. Kishnevi,
    My opinion is that there is not a realistic balance between what is being portrayed. For the most part the Christians are being castigated for what they feel (although they do have the irritating tendency not to slaughter 50 people whose lifestyle they don’t agree with).
    The leftie fall back position is to shout “racist” if the rightie criticizes the big three; black, muslim or hispanic.

    If the environment had more balanced coverage of the things that are happening such as the Imam’s comments in the video and the Mosque’s invitation for him to speak there, the risk of overreaction would be reduced. As it stands I think that one or two more significant slaughters such as this will cause a violent overreaction toward Muslims who had nothing to do with recent events and don’t support that radicalization belief system. The one thing all will have in common is that innocent people lose their lives.
    When I say more balanced coverage I am talking about something as simple as having the esteemed Imam on MSNBC and ask him to justify his comments, perhaps a few thugs from baltimore to explain why marking black owned stores so that the ones burned and looted were largely Korean owned is the right thing to do.

    What I do know about most left leaning Democrats is that they refuse to consider balance as important. When the panic hits they will be just as culpable for the damage as the people actually doing it.

    vor2 (494009)

  186. Pikachu luvs being so tough tough during sad times and brings up his weirdo issues when blood is still warm

    he kinda looks bad doing this

    dick move

    trumpyfeet (2ea368)

  187. simon you just a very grumpy person

    happyfeet (831175)

  188. pikachu you would be smart to stfu when people are grieving

    sicky sicky dick

    trumpyfeet (2ea368)

  189. Here’s the reason you can’t drop the adjective “radical” from “radical Islam”.

    Pastor calls for the execution of gays then introduces Ted Cruz. Video.

    Poor Ted. Can’t catch a break while courting the God botherers.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  190. you would be smart to stop being a pooper

    happyfeet (831175)

  191. Would you agree to a deal where all undocumented immigrants would be subjected to the same level of scrutiny as the left will demand of citizens who wish to obtain a concealed carry permit? If the data submitted can’t be thoroughly verified, away go the aliens and no permit for the applicant (this is already true). I get the constitutional component. However, as a political issue? We win and we expose the Left.

    I am very curious to learn how many were shot by friendly fire as the SWAT team killed this animal. It is vitally important that all the squishes in our polity recognize the necessity, on occasion, for collateral casualties. We must hammer home that this incident required the type of all-out assault which was conducted. If the Left refuses to agree? Again, we win culturally and politically.

    Finally, I will bet very, very, long odds that the LGBTBBQABCwhatever community will grossly overplay their hand here. This could be an excellent opportunity to call them out as they do. Here’s hoping that, for once, the Right won’t let a tragic opportunity go to waste.

    May God bless and hold everyone who are directly confronting the horror of this evil. May we all have the courage to draw the correct meaning and act accordingly. In Jesus’ name. Amen.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  192. Hey, you satirical “trumpyfeet,” go eff yerself.
    There are 50 dead bodies in the street, and another 50 wounded.
    Some of you right wingers are almost as non-chalant about human suffering as the left wingers.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  193. “Omar Mateen called the cops to pledge his fealty to ISIS as he was carrying out his mass murderer in Orlando early Sunday morning. Twelve hours later, the president of the United States declared that “we have no definitive assessment on the motivation” of Omar Mateen but that “we know he was a person filled with hate.” ”

    — John Podhoretz

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  194. you so weird pikachu

    pooper seems to mean anybody what you don’t like

    let peeps grieve without your weirdo lie lie act

    take a breath, let it out what with your mantra

    me im sad for families with dead people and praying

    you should try it

    its good

    trumpyfeet (2ea368)

  195. Hey, you satirical “trumpyfeet,” go eff yerself.
    There are 50 dead bodies in the street, and another 50 wounded.
    Some of you right wingers are almost as non-chalant about human suffering as the left wingers.

    Sort of to an extent. My thinking is how comfortable the gays are living in our country that they have a club with at least a hundred in attendance, but no armed security.

    I guess they didn’t feel the need.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  196. they did have like one security person – i think i read it on dailymail

    happyfeet (831175)

  197. Possibly kish then again the host of that mosque in Pembroke pines, where atta and papilla and Co. Ali frequented had a habit of saying similar things, of course its closer to home.

    narciso (732bc0)

  198. Mina said the suspect exchanged gunfire with an officer working at the club around 2am local time, then went back inside and took hostages.

    happyfeet (831175)

  199. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/12/iran-s-new-gay-executions.html

    ….We do not know for certain that they were executed for being gay…

    Swell!

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  200. So he cased the joint and/or frequented ones like it in preparation perhaps. Probably figured a dusky muscular type would not raise many hackles on Latin night. If it was a straight Latin night and the Muslim was Albanian, Bosnian or the third Tsarnaev, whole different game of disrtracting unctiousness.

    urbanleftbehind (b14fe5)

  201. …and this is what the #NeverTrump and Romney & Hillary factions want to happen throughout the country. And none of them will do a thing to turn this deadly trend around.

    …to them the big “evil” is Trump.

    “trickle-down racism” says Romney.

    “gun-control” says Obama.

    Trump calls it radical islamic terrorists, and that the 2nd amendment needs to be protected, and the border needs to be closed to islamic immigration until a better security process is developed.

    Insanity reigns in the USA when the presidential candidate who has the most consistent and clear way forward to protect americans, yet he is labeled a racists and danger to the safety of america & the world by the #NeverTrump cultists.

    The #NeverTrump cultists should stop worrying about the rest of the world, and worry about americans. But that is there whole game, to bring the USA down.

    Enjoy my dear #NeverTrumpers, this is what you condemn all of us too:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637414/Everyone-running-Gunman-bursts-gay-nightclub-Florida-shoots-20-people-taking-hostages.html

    John (20e1e6)

  202. Thanks happy. So Obama was right? It’s lack of gun control on the part of the security guard that allowed the radical Islamic to continue breathing, shoot up the bar, take hostages.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  203. so why is Romney, Hillary, and the #NeverTrump cultists calling Trump a racist and hate-monger, when they have this being preached in Orlando:

    https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/06/12/orlando-night-club-attack-by-known-wolf-terrorist-previously-investigated-by-fbi/

    where is Romney, Hillary, Obama or the #NeverTrump cultists with an idea on how to deal with this?

    Where are your plans?

    Oh thats right, Trump is the terrorist and the racist. He is the one we should prevent being president and we should not give him any chance to solve this deadly problem.

    got it. so the #NeverTrump cultists want more of the same: entrenched liberal progressive & RINO political families who demonize anyone they perceive as a threat…and the #NeverTrump cultists are against anyone who can actually solve the problem and protect americans.

    John (20e1e6)

  204. this wins election for trump! all gay bashing must be expunged from koran and anti gay clerics sent back to saudis arabia, advocating killing of gays should be arrested for terrorist statements.

    no gay bashing (6b6a13)

  205. http://media.navysna.org/HOF/G/Gallagher.htm

    I prefer to think, F U

    On November 1975 while conducting night flight operations east of Sicily, the USS Belknap (CG 26) and the USS John F. Kennedy (CV 67) collided, Belknap sustained major damage and a fire that raged for more than 2 hours before being brought under control. At the time of the collision, BT2 Gallagher and the members of his watch team remained behind despite heavy smoke and flames in the fire room. Then disregarding …

    Ain’t no thang but a chicken wang!!

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  206. Our satirical “trumpyfeet” and “sadfeet” is such a mannnn’s man. (LOL)
    There are 50 dead people in the street, and 50 wounded, yet rather than focusing on Islamic jihad, let’s focus on Donald Trump — just as the left wingers are doing!
    Wow!

    Let’s not keep our eye on the prize.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  207. 190.they did have like one security person – i think i read it on dailymail
    happyfeet (831175) — 6/12/2016 @ 4:00 pm

    That was later found to be erroneous, happyfeet. The supposed security person was actually in Village People costume.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  208. i’m 99% sure you’re making a funny

    happyfeet (831175)

  209. As this site always says: Go Hillary!

    Moonzoo (b20bf1)

  210. Some people can such ( redacted), so a coworker of omar did notice his behavior, but didn’t say something, guess why?

    narciso (732bc0)

  211. 202.i’m 99% sure you’re making a funny
    happyfeet (831175) — 6/12/2016 @ 4:42 pm

    Too soon? Sorry.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  212. not for me but we have to think of poor simon

    happyfeet (831175)

  213. This is the biggest single massacre in American history.
    June 12 should at least become mentioned in the same conversation as September 11.

    But it won’t be.
    For left wingers, it’ll just be something to ignore because it was committed by a PC jihadist. And sadly for many of my right wing friends, they’ll view it as something that happened to f*gs.

    Morality has gone out the window. Morality is no longer objective — it’s become entirely subjective.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  214. nicely put

    happyfeet (831175)

  215. While I am at it…how ’bout we literally round up any and all who publicly called for an event like this to occur? The 1st Amendment does not protect such speech.

    It’s past time that Imams who foment violence be removed.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  216. “And sadly for many of my right wing friends, they’ll view it as something that happened to f*gs.”

    I have many “right wing” friends and I don’t know anyone who would ever characterize it thusly.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  217. Ed I am sincerely in doubt I hold the winning hand.

    But I will play it nonetheless.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  218. jumping the gun, cs, if you want to be angry, directed at this vekakte idiots, who prevent any diligent investigations, because isna (iman musri) taliban papa siddiqui, abusalem, the other wayward lad from ft, pierce, somehow never add up to anything but squirrel!

    narciso (732bc0)

  219. Good point Col. Lately I have an umbrage deficit.

    Letting slights go by in the deluge, whereas if we were in a drought I’d probably pick at them.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  220. Colonel Haiku,

    I’m sorry, I may be totally wrong, and I didn’t say it as a means of impugning “right wingers.” I’m a total right winger.
    I guess I’m just shocked by the lack of outrage across the board. This is all so sickening. This should be a bigger story than the Super Bowl — but it’s not.
    It WOULD be a bigger story had the murders been committed by a Tea Partier or someone who had a confederate flag on the back of his pick-up truck.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  221. now you ask where does this sentiment come from,

    http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/homosexuality.htm

    that is happens on a holy day, on their holiest month is instructive,

    narciso (732bc0)

  222. Thank you, colonel haiku. I wish I, a righty, were brave enough and I would go to a gay bar tonight in solidarity.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  223. I think these wicked bastards realize that America – and the West – are soft targets… we’ve allowed our elected officials and bureaucracy to hamstring us to the point that we won’t get serious and employ the tools and weapons we possess or focus on that which must be done to combat this anti-human evil sh*t. And so it will continue to happen. 50 victims here… 500 there… and on and on. It’s happening because we, as an open, free society let it happen.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  224. Ah, Mr. Feet.

    This is an awful tragedy. I agree completely. But you honestly could not help yourself from snarking and making jokes about politicians you don’t like…before the bodies were cold.

    Here is the thing: you want the right to be just as an awful as a human being as you wish, whenever you wish…on Patterico’s dime.

    Don’t be surprised if people decide they have a right to respond in an equally ugly and flippant way toward you.

    Free speech is funny that way.

    You could decide to be decent, but hey, that’s not how you roll. And remember that mine is not a minority opinion on this topic. I have watched you lose supporter after supporter, friend after friend. Your business, of course. But it remains so very amusing to me when you call other people “weird” and suggest they aren’t being nice.

    On a much more important topic than offensive and lazy trolls….

    As for the events of the day, I am deeply worried about the lack of response, too. The Boston Marathon attacks were covered with more sympathy.

    I do not mind where people park their genitals. That’s their business. What I do mind is spilling of American blood.

    Personally, I think that the Afghani background may have something to do with the relative silence, rather than the Boston Marathon situation. Kids from weird parts of Russia, even if Muslim, dont’ “count” for as much.

    Also, the use of firearms feeds into the usual meme and narrative.

    I am quite sincere that we should all pray for the families of the fallen. I honestly don’t think Republicans or conservatives care that much about the sex lives of clubbers in Orlando. They do care about the color of their blood, and how it should not be on the ground.

    Watching the internet, this has been pitched as homophobia (carefully sidestepping Islamic opinions on that topic) along with gun control.

    Which takes us back to Raum Emmanuel.

    I wish that everyone in politics could have given it a day before the usual catfights. But that’s me.

    There was some nut in LA who supposedly was going to shoot up the Pride March, and I had several friends there. I’m glad they are okay. I’m still sad for the losses in Orlando. It is a very, very sad day indeed.

    We may be getting used to this kind of thing, like the frog in a pan of hot water. It reminds me of John Brunner’s “Stand on Zanzibar,” where people became used to nutjobs murdering groups of people in public—calling them “muckers.”

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  225. I can also recommend a old Dean Ing novel, “Soft Targets.”

    http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/very-proper-charlies

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  226. These ingrates from this annoying religion should have their body parts harvested and sold for profit.

    mg (31009b)

  227. “1. Calling the War By the Right Name.
    2. Not Process But Victory Restores Freedom
    3. Playing for Time is Playing to Lose
    4. The Goal of Radical Islam is Our Destruction
    5. The War of Two Religions
    6. The Unspoken Role of the Ballistic Missile Submarines
    7. Avoiding the Islamic War by Winning the Terrorist War”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  228. Simon, my rage is for those who allow this to happen, again and again, and (redact) narrative, I’m so sick of that word, and this notion that hurt feelings trumped shattered femurs and organs, it is on the continiuum with bataclan and the cafe in tel aviv, and that community center in san bernardino,

    narciso (732bc0)

  229. Peace is the goal of war. The failure to plan for victory is the construction of a plan for defeat.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  230. So far, all the names of the victims released are Hispanic. Couple that with the use of an AR-15, the fetish of every dog-molesting redneck, and the conclusion is obvious: This was a Trump supporter exacting revenge for the violence at the Trump rally in San Jose.

    No, I am not being serious. But it is no less nonsensical than the victory lap Animal Trump took on the dead bodies of the victims, or the puerile comments of his Trumpkins here. F**k yourselves, Demented Trump ghouls.

    nk (dbc370)

  231. narciso, I agree, and this silly approach helps create more hatred of Muslims, on my opinion.

    trumpyfeet (c8876d)

  232. so what is the answer, nk, we keep ignoring the obvious reality of what is going on, it’s sop
    everywhere throughout the government, the likes of phil haney are stonewalled, as was ken williams, and floyd the fbi agent who handed emad salem, a quarter century ago,

    narciso (732bc0)

  233. “Wishful souls in the West may see the war as a “process;” as an exercise in supply chain management. Our many millions of avowed enemies do not. Our enemies have no truck with vague thinking and phrases front-loaded with vacillation and pusillanimous wishing. Their thinking is driven by an ancient religious doctrine designed to manipulate, exploit and harness societies into servitude.

    Our enemies commitment to our destruction is adamantine. It is no accident that many of their spiritual leaders speaking from the centers of their faith call for the death of the “Crusaders.” Obfuscation has no place in their plans except as if creates confusion and doubt among us. Our enemies’ goals are the same goals they have held for more than 500 years. They are the goals announced several times a week in tens of thousands of mosques throughout the world. For our enemies, the wars of the Crusades and the wars surrounding the rise and fall of the Ottoman Empire were merely prologues to this war.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  234. Part of me, in a corner of the foundation, buried under twenty coats of paint, has always believed, but never found cause to utter, that gay bars are an apocryphal hook, invented by stand up comics.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  235. We need MUSLIM control, not gun control!

    The damn government must stop importing terrorists now and start deporting a whole lot of people right now.

    The damn government couldn’t find a terrorists in a bloody Iranian Revolutionary Guard training camp!

    This is only going to get worse, so I advise people to take steps to protect themselves and their loved ones because the government couldn’t care less if this happens every day of the week.

    WarEagle82 (5bf75f)

  236. Mr. Trump’s take on this is way way more smarter than president food stamp’s

    or nasty vile hillary’s

    if this is a preview of how he’ll react to these sorts of events then

    it’s a wonderful change from the sleazy silly brady campaign dipstick we have now i think

    happyfeet (831175)

  237. @ hatefulfeet (#171), who asked, sarcastically, “why do we need a Ted Cruz statement on Orlando[?]”

    Speaking on behalf of the 27 million Texans for whom Sen. Cruz is one of our two representatives in the U.S. Senate: He’s doing his job.

    You, by contrast, aren’t. You’re not responsible to or for anyone. “There’s been another domestic terrorism attack on U.S. soil, I wonder what hatefulfeet will have to say about that” said no one in the history of the universe.

    You’re entitled to an opinion, but it’s consistently as elegant and appropriate as a fart at communion, so I ask:

    So why do we need a hatefulfeet statement on anything?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  238. This is all so sickening.
    These men were just minding their own business on a Saturday night.

    This is a difference between the Judeo/Christian ethic VS the Islamic “ethic.”
    In a Judeo/Christian society (Tel Aviv, Orlando) men can dance the Saturday night away to ABBA and the Village People.
    The local Pentacostal church won’t trouble you about it, even if they don’t embrace it.

    But adherents to Islam may get so bent out of shape that they’ll attempt to kill you.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  239. Everybody, calm down. This is a very evil situation we are looking at, and there is way too much serious stoopid going on here. Take a breath and relax. Think. Make friends. Y’all gonna need friends, and lots of ’em.

    hunson abedeer (cacaf3)

  240. None of us are at communion.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  241. if teddy-pie’s statements make you feel more better than that’s good enough for me beldar

    i take back my question about why do we need teddy-pie statements

    happyfeet (831175)

  242. *then* that’s good enough for me i mean

    happyfeet (831175)

  243. i should reiterate though that i think harvardtrash ted’s statement was really awkward and nakedly calculating and really creepishly all hung up on the gay thing

    Mr. Trump’s statement was much more helpful and perspicacious

    happyfeet (831175)

  244. Insanity reigns in the USA when the presidential candidate who has the most consistent and clear way forward to protect americans

    Yes, insanity does reign, because the candidate with the most consistent and clear way forward is….Hillary. [In Steve57 voice: we are so f…d]

    God help us, because the political class isn’t going to.

    Trump himself says his plan is…to get a plan, once he can talk to experts (the same experts who advise the rest of the GOP)and meanwhile not let Muslims travel to or from other countries. Which is not actually enforceable against US citizens and does nothing to keep a wannabe jihadi from travelling the two hours between Port St. Lucie.

    kishnevi (c81531)

  245. cite me the statute or scripture against farting in church.

    Okay. 11 Bizarre Church Laws That Could Send You To Jail

    Farting In Church: A person is guilty of disruption or disturbance of a religious service, funeral, burial or memorial service “when he or she makes unreasonable noise or disturbance while at a lawfully assembled religious service, funeral, burial or memorial service, or within one hundred feet thereof, with intent to cause annoyance or alarm or recklessly creating a risk thereof.” Under the law, a fart could potentially get someone charged with a misdemeanor.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  246. no it was very good, his advisor, frank gaffney came up with a very sophisticated screen to deal with islamists,

    narciso (732bc0)

  247. actually phares, schmitz, and general flynn aren’t the run of the mill advisors,

    narciso (732bc0)

  248. This place and time where we find ourselves, brought home to us in the horror of 9/11… in Mumbai… in Bataclan… in Belgium… in Boston… and now in Orlando, is that we are fighting a war against terrorism and the people and the radical form of the religion that employs it. “Terror” can’t be “managed” or “contained”. It must be crushed.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  249. Narciso, is it online somewhere? I have never seen it mentioned before.

    Papertiger, I am pretty sure the clause about intent would keep you out of jail.

    kishnevi (c81531)

  250. it was on the center for security policy site, sometime before trump borrowed from it, it calls for an index of islamist organization, much the way we had one in the cold war, not a perfect system but what is,

    narciso (732bc0)

  251. If ever the need arises. I’ll call you.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  252. This place and time where we find ourselves

    exciting time in the world right now

    exciting time

    happyfeet (831175)

  253. Actually, Trump is selling a plan as bait and willing to switch at a moment’s notice,
    even if he has good advisors.
    Clinton is worse,
    the media and the public worse yet.
    We need our Ceausescu moment,
    where the public shouts “You lie!” before Obama leaves the podium.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  254. interesting times, where telling the truth is a revolutionary act,

    the alotment of truth, is as rare as palladium though,

    narciso (732bc0)

  255. Donald Trump is not the answer.

    I can pound Oly for Oly Sky Blue Waters Oakland Raiders Style however long you want.

    Not buying it.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  256. My goodness, how bad does a character need to be before they are kept in prison?

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  257. nowadays write a really bad documentary script,

    narciso (732bc0)

  258. i wonder if this orlando thing nails down the brexit

    happyfeet (831175)

  259. Too true, narciso.
    People should have believed that Congressman when he called Obama out.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  260. Clearly, doc, if drinking the Sky Blue Waters won’t keep you out of prison…

    http://olympia-beer.com/

    …our prisons serve no purpose.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  261. I’m only partially tongue in cheek, basseley’s oevre was rather pathetic but it’s the spanish inquisition, then again tom holland was grilled over the coals at the bbc for his audio version of his book, that reviewed all three religions,

    but one sees how one faith is allowed to proselytize in every way, manner and form, and another must be hid under a bushel basket,

    narciso (732bc0)

  262. Man oh man, the lady sez what needs to be said… https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/236103/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  263. “Later, the president would say that he had failed to fully appreciate the fear many Americans were experiencing about the possibility of a Paris-style attack in the U.S. Great distance, a frantic schedule, and the jet-lag haze that envelops a globe-spanning presidential trip were working against him. But he has never believed that terrorism poses a threat to America commensurate with the fear it generates. Even during the period in 2014 when isis was executing its American captives in Syria, his emotions were in check. Valerie Jarrett, Obama’s closest adviser, told him people were worried that the group would soon take its beheading campaign to the U.S. “They’re not coming here to chop our heads off,” he reassured her. Obama frequently reminds his staff that terrorism takes far fewer lives in America than handguns, car accidents, and falls in bathtubs do. Several years ago, he expressed to me his admiration for Israelis’ “resilience” in the face of constant terrorism, and it is clear that he would like to see resilience replace panic in American society. Nevertheless, his advisers are fighting a constant rearguard action to keep Obama from placing terrorism in what he considers its “proper” perspective, out of concern that he will seem insensitive to the fears of the American people.

    I wonder if late at night, Obama says something along the lines of, “See Michelle, I told you that Americans can ‘absorb’ another terrorist attack, and Fort Hood, Boston, Garland, Chattanooga, and San Bernardino just keep proving me right.”

    And now Orlando.

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/236091/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  264. Went looking for Gaffney, found this
    http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2016/06/12/orlando-victims-denied-key-state-counterterrorism-law-in-march-by-house-leaders/

    Mind you, the Florida House is completely dominated by the GOP.

    kishnevi (c81531)

  265. Later:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEzbDQzjPTY

    Highlights of 10 NFR Saddle Bronc Riding
    rwillie22
    rwillie22

    Like, I don’t believe it.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  266. yes, and yet it matters little, in the final analysis, like the alaskan leg sans polar bears,

    narciso (732bc0)

  267. The nice thing about a horse or a bull is they can only throw you so far.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  268. “Obama frequently reminds his staff that terrorism takes far fewer lives in America than handguns, car accidents, and falls in bathtubs do.”

    Leftists need to be slapped in the face with a copy of the Analects of Confucius until they can demonstrate that they understand the philosophical/linguistic doctrine of the Rectification of Names. Accidents in cars and bathrooms are an unavoidable part of life, which is always a fraught proposition. Political violence is not the same thing; it is, rather, an attempt by a hostile force to make you submit to someone else’s view of the world: to their will, against your own will. These things are not the same, not at all, not even remotely; and the cynical, not-even-serious-anymore attempt at sleight-of-hand implies complicity with the enemy. And under the Constitution, the penalty for such complicity, well…….

    hunson abedeer (cacaf3)

  269. 264, 265, 266… WTF.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  270. sorry, about the florida legislature’s inability to put the car before the horse, so to speak,

    narciso (732bc0)

  271. If you had your johnson strapped up like that, you’d buck too.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  272. I’m quite serious, nobody in this country should be allowed to vote unless they can demonstrate that they have read and understood George Orwell’s essay “Politics and the English Language” and the parts of “1984” which deal with the theory and practice of Newspeak, and what it is for. (Be nice if we could get into Wittgenstein, but let’s not dream of rainbows.) Before one has thoroughly understood these concepts one is a political infant, and one’s opinion is utterly without value.

    A basic required course in statistics and how they can be manipulated wouldn’t be such a bad benchmark either, but hey, let’s not go all Bolshevik about it.

    hunson abedeer (cacaf3)

  273. tom holland was grilled over the coals at the bbc for his audio version of his book, that reviewed all three religions,

    Well, the knowledge of Judaism in the Talmudic era which he displayed in his book on Islam was deserving of coals. Granted, there it was a tangential matter, but he got some matters wrong that were entry level. (The one I remember best is taking a legend about Simon Bar Yohai, the author of the Zohar, in which he is depicted as able to burn people up just by looking at them, and thinking it applied to all the rabbis of that era.)

    Which hasn’t kept me from reading his current one, Dynasty. I figure he’s better on his home ground.

    kishnevi (c81531)

  274. Besides, it wasn’t as bad a mistake as the historian who said the Castel Sant’Angelo was the scene for the last of Verdi’s Tosca.

    kishnevi (c81531)

  275. his thing is persian and roman history, but only one faith really complained about the account,

    narciso (732bc0)

  276. interesting piers paul read, has a novel about the characters behind tosca, scarpia,

    narciso (732bc0)

  277. Well the thesis of his book on Islam was that all the hadiths were made up a couple of centuries later, especially those used to justify jihad and most of the other things people criticize him for, that we don’t really know anything about him, and his center of activity was probably a location now disappeared in the sands of the desert somewhere in the northwest of Arabia.

    So I am sure some people complained.

    kishnevi (c81531)

  278. 256. Given the British dominance of I-Drive and Lake Buena Vista in June, id say so. Watch out for some unseemly delays of flights headed back to the UK from ol’ MCO.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  279. um, going back to the safety on londinistan, doesn’t compute,

    narciso (732bc0)

  280. The Trump people are like “welcome aboard the train” and the Cruzers are cruzin for the bruisin:
    https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/06/12/gay-activist-after-orlando-trump-voter/

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  281. No I’m speaking about people who took vacation, then are flying Back who still haven’t voted yet.

    But let’s say they said to hell with Londonistan. You’d take in a Anglo-Saxon family who had enough of the predicament back home?

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  282. Trump 2016

    There are only two viable choices. He’s the better one.

    RIP to the fallen. My condolences to the wounded and to all the loved ones affected.

    Denver Guy (93b25b)

  283. “Gunman Opens Fire At Orlando Gay Bar, Possible Ties To Islamic Terrorism Being Investigated”

    You missed the final rejoinder:


    “Gunman Opens Fire At Orlando Gay Bar, Possible Ties To Islamic Terrorism Being Investigated, Christians blamed…

    Yeah, this nation is that fucked up. Yeesh.

    IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d)

  284. ok, I misunderstood, about what they were planning to do,

    narciso (732bc0)

  285. Trump 2016

    There are only two viable choices. He’s the better one.

    RIP to the fallen. My condolences to the wounded and to all the loved ones affected.
    Denver Guy (93b25b) — 6/12/2016 @ 8:38 pm

    I am not picking on you. Swear to gawd. One more time.

    Veteran’s Day. Those who served.

    Memorial Day. Those who died.

    Again…

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  286. You will repeat this exercise until you fill this circle with sweat.

    I am putting this in far more polite terms than your DI ever will.

    Having gone through AOCS at an earlier age. When it was f*ckin* genteel.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  287. but of course, *

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2016/06/12/abc-blames-orlando-terror-election-rhetoric-and-guns-america

    * poppa vandenheuvel, was one of those who found diem in a maryland seminary, hence vietnam war, also she’s an mca heir,

    narciso (732bc0)

  288. http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2006-11/lest-we-forget-swede-vejtasa-vf-51-part-2

    …. While flying anti-torpedo patrol in the vicinity of the USS Yorktown (CV-5), Swede and the other pilots in his group were attacked by a swarm of 12 Japanese Zeros. No U.S. fighters were available, so the dive-bomber pilots took on the attackers. Outnumbered and outgunned, the American SBDs flew a full 100 mph slower than the Zeros, and a number of the courageous Americans were quickly shot down by the Japanese fighters. Yet, with his rear-gunner effectively covering his flanks, Swede adroitly maneuvered his aircraft to bring the attackers into his forward gun sights. By the time the melee was over, Swede had managed not only to survive but to down three of the Japanese fighters! For this amazing action, Swede was awarded the Navy Cross. And to make this feat even more impressive, this was his second Navy Cross—a month before, near Tulagi, Vejtasa had earned his first while helping to sink three Japanese ships and shooting down an enemy fighter.

    Swede’s skill as a fighter pilot now fully recognized, he was soon transferred to VF-10…

    Fookin’ eh, Swede!

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  289. In terms of fighting Islamic jihad, Hillary will be better than Trump. She’s proven her meddle at Benghazi, with Libya, and in everything related to the State Department. She knows more about email than Bill Gates.

    You spur-kicking, hair-spray, licking Texans.
    You think you’re better than everyone else, fifty years after giving the country LBJ — are you kidding?

    Y’all’s reallll ‘muricans….
    Jee-sus criiist.
    (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  290. CS, In the big sceam of things I am just a rodeo clown.

    Still, I get back up.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  291. Sceam
    Scheme
    whatevs

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  292. Steve 57,

    Nobody who has moved to TX from another state has ever said, “Texas has really well designed highways.”

    Instead, they say, “Crissakes, I hate paying state income taxes, but maybe we need to pay some state income taxes in order to get some effing roads that make sense!”
    (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  293. “Crissakes I paid enough”

    Yes I paid.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  294. Steve,

    You didn’t pay ‘enough,’ ‘cuz Texas’ highways are poorly designed.
    TX-DOT is a total joke.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  295. Dad serve in Cherokee class fleet tug and later Owasco class gun boat USCGC Mendota.

    What did your dad do?

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  296. CS, an orangutan could have come up with a better design than the Dallas frontage road system.

    And I don’t care how racist that makes me sound.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  297. If Swede was Nigerian, and could could shoot like that, well then I’d be down with the black guy.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  298. Just got here!!! Has PREEEEZY if if if if if if if a BUNCH of OKIE DOKE, weighed in?????

    GUS (30b6bd)

  299. Oh yes Cruz Supporter!!! Rodham is honest and strong.

    GUS (30b6bd)

  300. My Dad served as a radioman on a Mount McKinley-class amphibious force command ship during the Inchon landing, lost the coffee pot over the side during a typhoon in the South China Sea, and witnessed the Mike Hydrogen bomb test at Eniwetok.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  301. IVY-MIKE — FIRST HYDROGEN BOMB TEST (YouTube)
    featuring first hand account from the deck of the USS Estes (AGC 12).

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  302. Traitor Ryan and his lip locking obamas bring in the Syrians, should be the start of his impeachment. This gutless coward is on the muzzles team.

    mg (31009b)

  303. racists like paul ryan have no business being in leadership I don’t think

    it sends the wrong message

    happyfeet (831175)

  304. No, Texas needs a stiffer gas tax – limit the hit to the users of the road. Illegals pay their fair share through lawn equipment and old cars with crappy fuel economy. That killed any anschluss I felt for Abel Maldonado when he opposed a gas tax increase in favor of increasing the income tax in CA.

    urbanleftbehind (7195bd)

  305. Ryan feels the heat – he did a 180 and cribbed Ted’s rhetoric:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/SpeakerRyan/status/742115174346280961?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    urbanleftbehind (7195bd)

  306. From the link provide by kishnevi @264

    State legislation known as “Andy’s Law” creates a civil cause of action empowering victims of terrorism to sue in state court those who provide material support and aid those who commit acts of terrorism. Andy’s Law has already passed into law in Louisiana, Arkansas, Kansas, North Carolina and Tennessee. The law provides for treble damages and attorney’s fees to be awarded to terror victims or their surviving family members.

    Why is this “special” law needed? Can’t people currently sue? I mean if you can sue because the coffee you spilt on your on lap was too hot certainly you can sue for assaults, attempted murder and murder. And if “Andy’s Law” is passed, who exactly are the victorious winners of law suits going to collect all this money from? Certainly not itinerant immigrants, refugees and welfare recipients. So is this another slush fund for lawyers from the public coffers thinly veiled as some sort of award for victims of islam? How about we confiscate the bank accounts of CAIR and seize the property of mosques to pay for this? Why should you and I pay an award for moslem murderers?

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  307. Happy:

    You are more “North side” than me, so can you answer this question – how much overlap is there between the respective Puerto Rican Independence and Gay Pride celebrations? Maybe the respective parades can meet up with pitchforks in hand and hit the mosque on Elston?

    urbanleftbehind (7195bd)

  308. i have no idea really i don’t get all the memos

    is puerto rican independence a thing?

    i couldn’t be happier for them bye bye you guys and thanks for all the papa rellenos

    happyfeet (831175)

  309. Bill de Blasio’s office tweeted that the massacre was basically an attack on the gay community (ignoring that it was an attack upon Americans), and that we’ve once again lost precious lives to the gun.

    Fortunately, the gun has been arrested, and today will probably be charged with 50 counts of murder and 50-something counts of attempted murder.
    Say, what ever happened to the fellow who walked into the nightclub with the gun?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  310. Not likely, they’re about to be bailed out. If Mateen kept his mouth shut, he could have used the bankruptcy, the resulting diaspora in Central Florida and the soon to be passed bailout as his motive (sarc).

    urbanleftbehind (7195bd)

  311. yes yes it’s so sad Mr. urban

    deeply racist paul ryan is gonna bail out profligate irresponsible puerto rico for to set a precedent for bailing out all his other spendy spendy compadres

    happyfeet (831175)

  312. If Mateen kept his mouth shut, he could have used the bankruptcy, the resulting diaspora in Central Florida and the soon to be passed bailout as his motive (sarc).

    Why would he do that? His motive was clearly to kill queers. However, it does illustrate why the LGBT organizations sue Christians out of business. Christians not making wedding cakes is clearly the larger threat to the community.

    It also illustrates why Hillary wants more moslem refugees. They make great democrats like this guy.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  313. Well said:

    Leftists need to be slapped in the face with a copy of the Analects of Confucius until they can demonstrate that they understand the philosophical/linguistic doctrine of the Rectification of Names. Accidents in cars and bathrooms are an unavoidable part of life, which is always a fraught proposition. Political violence is not the same thing; it is, rather, an attempt by a hostile force to make you submit to someone else’s view of the world: to their will, against your own will. These things are not the same, not at all, not even remotely; and the cynical, not-even-serious-anymore attempt at sleight-of-hand implies complicity with the enemy. And under the Constitution, the penalty for such complicity, well…….

    hunson abedeer (cacaf3) — 6/12/2016 @ 7:58 pm

    Steve Malynn (1d7837)

  314. Please do not encourage Christoph, Steve.

    nk (dbc370)

  315. I’m just shocked that a Muslim was so angry at gays that he was motivated to murder them. All I’ve ever heard is that Muslims are tolerant, loving, and advocates for peace.
    This Omar Mir Seddique Mateen must have been an outlier!

    If Afghanistan is such a garden spot, why would his parents have moved to America to live among dirty sinister infidels who don’t believe in stoning people to death?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  316. I’ll be thinking of the Libyan, Kurdish, Iraqi and Syrian fighting forces killing ISIS scum in and around Sirte, Mosul, Fallujah and Raqqa today. I wish them all the best of luck with the direct approach in dealing with Mahometan murderers.

    What happened to all the news reports (with maps) showing the ever expanding dominion of the ISIS World Caliphate?

    Rick Ballard (45aac8)

  317. Hey, NK, its hard to keep up with all the pseudonyms – but the distinction the left refuses to make between accidents and crime to justify killing the right to self defense is important to refute.

    In the Philippines as a young Marine, each of the bars had an armed guard – none of this “only cops can be armed in gun free zones”. For some reason, the islamist and communist guerrillas avoided armed people, and attacked the unarmed. Funny how that worked.

    Steve Malynn (1d7837)

  318. If Afghanistan is such a garden spot, why would his parents have moved to America to live among dirty sinister infidels who don’t believe in stoning people to death?

    Right there, Cruz Supporter, you nailed it. Why would any moslem who believes in islam want to live in a land founded by Christians and guided by the Constitution? There is only one answer.

    It doesn’t matter which Islamic hell-hole they come from they shouldn’t be here. The proof they shouldn’t be here is this Mateen creep. He was born here and still wants to kill us in the name of his cult. That’s what islam teaches. The fact we tolerate moslems here, mosques here, CAIR and the Moslem Brotherhood here is a testimony to how deep and insidious the leftist PC propaganda has corrupted our ability to think, defend ourselves and fight an enemy in our midst.

    As the idiot obama does on about gun crime and peaceful moslems. Bite me. All these leftist creeps who live behind walls with guards carrying guns deny the American people the same at every opportunity. Gee, I wonder how a dope like Trump ever got traction?

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  319. There is dear Al harb, the house of war, that’s where we live, and dear Al Islam, where they do.

    narciso (732bc0)

  320. Little Boy was a 15 kiloton atomic bomb. Modern W88 warheads have an estimated 475 kiloton yield. And there are thousands of them, stashed in various components of the mysterious “nuclear triad,” with which Il Douche is apparently unfamiliar.

    So, yeah. Trump is far, far more dangerous than your Syrian bogeymen.
    Leviticus (1b20f0) — 6/12/2016 @ 9:49 am

    Sit down, take a deep breath, try to relax.

    Der Donald hasn’t actually killed anyone yet. Omar Mateen has.

    I don’t think I take a second seat to anyone when it comes to my contempt for Donald Trump. I believe he belongs in prison. For fraud. But, not for murder. He hasn’t killed anyone as far as I know.

    So, when his body count starts edging into the double digits you can talk to me about how he’s as dangerous as Omar Mateen.

    No, I don’t like any of this political season.

    Let me now turn to Hillary! There’s a lady with blood on her hands. Not just Benghazi.

    I think she foreshadowed her ice cold beeotchness when she was first lady. Hillarycare. A business owner confronted her and told her that her plan would bankrupt hims. She looked him in the eye and said she wasn’t responsible for every undercapitalized business in America.

    Need I peel this onion of wrong and wrong headedness?

    So, twenty years later she’s SecState. And what does she do? Negotiate with the Taliban. Not once during her tenure does it occur to her to make killing Americans a no-no.

    And why should it occur to the anti-American b*tch?

    It’s just a fact. She writes about it in her stoopid book Hard Choices. She tries to spin it but fails miserably. IF you know what was going on.

    She still brags about it in an elliptical way.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2863183/Hillary-Clinton-fire-saying-America-empathize-respect-enemies.html

    We know who Hillary! is. The absolute scum of the earth. So I can understand why people would prefer the devil they don’t know to the one they do.

    But don’t come here, Leviticus, and talk about how bad you imagine Trump might be without acknoleging the absolute horror show Hillary! has proven to be.

    For the most part I am amused by prowlerguy and his pathetic attempts to impugn my manhood. Like I spent 20 years in an air conditioned rubber room drinking lukewarm (must not hurt ourselves!) coffee out of a sippy cup. And he knows all about it.

    But I’ll give him this. Those were better men than me. Those who risked everything and got killed. They were sure as h3ll better human beings than any Clintooon. So, tell me again about Trump. Like I’m blind or something. And I’ll tell you about Hillary!

    And then, I guess, we can break into a pharmacy and go clawing after the morphine.

    It just sucks three ways from Sunday.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  321. Those were better men than me. Those who risked everything and got killed. They were sure as h3ll better human beings than any Clintooon.

    Hell Steve57, I killed better men than any “Clintoon” in the fields of Vietnam. At least those commies had the balls to pick up a rifle and fight for what they wanted instead of sending other people’s kids to die for them.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  322. How come all these Islamic terrorists know all the gay bars.

    I know this will surprise all the naval aviators and SEALs, but I’ve never been to a gay bar (as far as I know; at least none of the bars were obviously gay) and, in fact, I couldn’t name one. Anywhere. Not even in Thailand.

    The closest I’ve been to being gay is renting a Miata in Hawaii. And that’s saying something considering I grew up in the Bay Area. But these Daesh types are totally clued in to the gay scene in Orlando. And, everywhere, for that matter.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  323. Rev. Hoagie, tonight when I sit down to dinner I will hoist one in my fervent best wishes to your health and a long life.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  324. Yes tea. Haftet has scored a goal! Against the jayvees in sirte, by contrast we seem to have struck out one of the plucky rebel groups in syria

    narciso (732bc0)

  325. “But don’t come here, Leviticus, and talk about how bad you imagine Trump might be without acknoleging the absolute horror show Hillary! has proven to be.”

    – Steve57

    I know how bad Clinton is – trust me. She made it a point in her remarks on Orlando to pitch thinly veiled graft to Silicon Valley (explicitly stating that “Silicon Valley” was going to play a key role in her integrated defense apparatus, i.e. her intensified police state). It was disgusting. Clinton basically used the murder of Americans in Orlando to cast come hither glances at a pool of mega-wealthy donors.

    Donald Trump is disgusting for different reasons, but they are both disgusting. And I am more afraid of either one of them than I am afraid of Omar Mateen or anyone like him.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  326. Rev H.@304

    Treble damage needs a special law. Without, you can only sue for actual damages. But your point about who pays is a good one.

    Steve@329
    Pick up your local “alternative” weekly paper and look in the back, just before the ads for “massages” and “escorts”, mixed in with the ads for strip joints.

    But mind you, we’re simply assuming he meant to kill gays. He may have simply decided to target a nightclub as a symbol of decadence, and the gay part was a bonus. Which does raise the question why he drove two hours and not pick a target closer to home.

    kishnevi (1b8c69)

  327. No he picked his target rather methodically.

    narciso (732bc0)

  328. Btw, the correct figure of people killed is 49 (may G-d keep alive those who were only wounded). When you see 50 it means they counted the killer as well.

    kishnevi (1b8c69)

  329. Leviticus @323, then we agree.

    I honestly don’t know what to do. Which sh*tbird should be my President? Hmmm.

    Maybe in twenty years I can emerge from the shipping container I damned well ought to bury myself in, look around, and decide if it’s safe to come out.

    But that would be letting the rest of my family down.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  330. UPDATE x6 BY PATTERICO: So we know that the man was once investigated by the FBI, had contacts with an overseas terrorist, and that one co-worker, Daniel Gilroy, said he “talked about killing people all the time.” This report says: “Gilroy quit after he said Mateen began stalking him via multiple text messages — 20 or 30 a day. He also sent Gilroy 13 to 15 phone messages a day, he said.” I see no red flags there. Obviously, the solution (helpfully offered by one New Republic lefty) is to ban all guns.

    Patterico (fb172b)

  331. When you see 50 it means they counted the killer as well.
    kishnevi (1b8c69) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:55 am

    I hate it when they do that. I really do.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  332. The 2nd Amendment is the biggest winning issue Trump has. Use it you carrot topped egotist.

    mg (31009b)

  333. I read kishnevi, that Mateen had seen a gay couple kiss and it made a bad and hateful impression on him so he deliberately targeted the gay club. Why he picked Pulse is another question.

    For a cult whose soldiers seem to find a great deal of satisfaction from raping little boys moslems sure are touchy about their gays, aren’t they? I assume they believe if you tag a twelve year old boy in the butt somehow it’s not gay but tagging a twenty-one year old boy is. Sounds like perversion by numbers to me.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  334. His taliban flicking papa came up with that bit of taquiyya, like the confrontation with the messianic Jew, but we see musri who mentored shibly who in turn recruited Robertson

    narciso (732bc0)

  335. “Maybe in twenty years I can emerge from the shipping container I damned well ought to bury myself in, look around, and decide if it’s safe to come out.

    But that would be letting the rest of my family down.”

    – Steve57

    I believe in the power of tight families and small, loyal communities to resist the State – through legal and political channels while possible, and through armed means if necessary. I hope that the latter is not necessary in this country, but I acknowledge the possibility that it might be at some point.

    But I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: the American police state represents a more serious threat to the American way of life than Islamic terrorism. Perhaps Islamic terrorism represents a more serious threat to human life, broadly speaking, but “the American way of life” is characterized by freedoms and civil liberties and these are far more seriously (existentially) threatened by a brazenly expansionist police state.

    No solutions, only trade-offs, but people in this country need to start seriously considering whether they want the “American way of life,” or just want to decrease their individual chances of physically dying.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  336. That was Papa Mateen’s guess as to what set it off. But he did not need to drive 2 hours just to find a gay bar.

    As to your second paragraph, in that corner of the world the shame adheres to the receiving end, not the active end. They despised the man who took the female place, but not the man who took the man’s place. An attitude which also exemplified GrecoRoman views of the subject. The Bible is one of the few (maybe only) places in the ancient world that condemns both partners equally.

    kishnevi (1b8c69)

  337. > No solutions, only trade-offs, but people in this country need to start seriously considering whether they want the “American way of life,” or just want to decrease their individual chances of physically dying.

    Leviticus – my bet is that ultimately the American public will decide that it wants the latter, not the former. :{

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  338. As with the whole clockboy clan of Irving, its all about misdirection

    narciso (732bc0)

  339. Leviticus, we just maybe kinda find a way to get along. Somehow.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  340. Well, that’s one thing this site has been traditionally excellent at providing: a platform to find common ground (over long periods of time, sometimes), and then to build on it. Ultimately, it depends on the good will and good faith attempts of the commentariat. I have allowed my frustration with the Trump phenomenon to lull me into a dereliction of duty in the good will department, but it’s good to be reminded of the duty and I will make better efforts to remember it in my dealings with you in the future. I have been way too prickly these past months.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  341. A mutual apprehension at the expansion of the American police state and a mutual dislike of both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton as candidates likely to accelerate that expansion certainly seems a decent patch of common ground.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  342. Aphrael, are you more of an optimist or more of a pessimist than me?

    I’m the “Q” in the LGBT blah blah blat whatever crap.

    Questioning in Tejas, sincerely yours, the Ford LTD of Love, Steve57.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  343. And I just ruined it, didn’t I?

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  344. Rocco Marchegiano A.K.A. Rocky Marciano A.K.A. my paisan distinguished himself by being both overrated and underrated.

    He was overrated in that he was undefeated as a heavyweight.

    But he could have beaten them anyway, in their prime.

    By the same token I am both serious, and not.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  345. “the American police state represents a more serious threat to the American way of life than Islamic terrorism.”

    Leviticus,

    I assume you’re referring to the DoJ “prosecutors” who discarded their ethics in going after Stevens in Alaska, the Wisconsin fascists lead by Chisholm in Wisconsin, the execrable Mosby in Baltimore who targeted actual police for Gray having beaten himself to death in the van and Lerner for loosing the jack booted IRS thugs loose on the Tea Party.

    I really have to agree all those people do represent a far greater threat than the idiotic ISIS scum who are earning execution by security forces every day across the ME as well as in San Bernadino and Orlando.

    Rick Ballard (45aac8)

  346. Here’s a partial excerpt from The Conservative Tree House, 6/13/16:

    Here We Go – Orlando Jihadist Was Radicalized By Prison Trained Black Panther Marcus Dwayne Robertson…

    Oh boy, all the dots are connecting quickly now…. We suspected this would happen. This is going to make the White House very uncomfortable because it connects the Muslim/Islamist elements of the •Black Lives Matter, •Fuck The Police, and •New Black Panthers… connections we have been outlining for five years.

    Orlando Jihadist Omar Matten was radicalized by New Back Panther Party Member, Marcus Dwayne Robertson, who is a known advocate of radical Islam in Florida and was formerly famous for being a bodyguard for the Blind Sheik.

    Marcus Robertson is a severely anti-gay Muslim activist, and has an on-line radicalization class known as “Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary.” CTH readers will also know the names of other participants in his studies such as Eric Sheppard Jr and the “F**k The Flag” movement.

    Fortunately Fox News is covering the angle:

    (Via Fox News) The gunman who murdered at least 50 people in a Florida nightclub early Sunday morning was a follower of a controversial gang leader-turned-bank robber who was released from prison last year despite warnings from prosecutors that he would recruit people to carry out violent acts, sources told FoxNews.com.

    Omar Mateen, whose bloody siege inside a packed Orlando gay nightclub ended when SWAT teams stormed the building and killed him, was a radical Muslim who followed Marcus Dwayne Robertson, a law enforcement source said.

    “It is no coincidence that this happened in Orlando,” said a law enforcement source familiar with Robertson’s history of recruiting terrorists and inciting violence. “Mateen was enrolled in [Robertson’s online] Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary.”

    Robertson and several associates were rounded up for questioning early Sunday, according to law enforcement sources, a development his attorney refused to confirm or deny.

    “No comment,” Corey Cohen said in an email reply when asked if his longtime client was in custody. Police also did not confirm or deny picking up Robertson.

    Robertson’s school may not have been the only source of Mateen’s spiritual guidance. The gunman was at the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce with Imam Shafiq Rahman two days before the nightclub attack, according to The Washington Post.

    That mosque was frequented by American-born suicide bomber Monar abu Salha, who blew himself up in Syria in 2014, and the two knew each other, according to officials. Mateen’s association with Salha led the FBI to interview him in 2014. Rep. Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Mike McCaul told Fox News law enforcement determined at the time their contact “was minimal.”

    FoxNews.com has reported extensively on Robertson, a former U.S. Marine who served as a bodyguard to the Blind Sheik involved in the 1993 World Trade Center Attack and led a gang of New York bank robbers called “Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves” before resurfacing in Orlando, where he started an Islamic seminary.

    The school, recently renamed the Timbuktu Seminary, is operated by Robertson, a 47-year-old firebrand known to his thousands of followers as Abu Taubah.

    Robertson, who recently spent four years in prison in Florida on illegal weapons and tax fraud charges before being released by a Florida judge one year ago, has openly and enthusiastically preached against homosexuality. The targets of Mateen’s bloody rampage were members of the gay community of Orlando, an hour’s drive from the 29-year-old’s home in Fort Pierce…

    ropelight (596f46)

  347. I am talking about Lerner, yes – and the actual police who caused Gray’s death because they thought no one would care (as but one example).

    Leviticus (efada1)

  348. Hey Rocky was a paisano of mine too. Brockton is just down the road from where I lived as a kid. And the cemetery where he is buried is the one in which my father’s second wife is buried…which means (may it be a long time from now) it’s the one where he will be eventually.

    kishnevi (682c47)

  349. How (or why) some people find it plausible that a hog-tied prisoner “beat himself to death” continues to baffle me.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  350. Leviticus: by throwing himself around inside the van, to make it look like he had been beaten up.

    The actual charge is that he was not tied up enough, to keep him from being jolted around everytime the van went over a bump.

    kishnevi (682c47)

  351. harvardtrash ted says “nobody has a right to murder someone who doesn’t share their faith or sexual orientation.”

    Profound man.

    happyfeet (831175)

  352. Ah, you do the kangaroo court suppressed dontae Allen’s testimony don’t you

    narciso (732bc0)

  353. How (or why) some people find it plausible that a hog-tied prisoner “beat himself to death” continues to baffle me.
    Leviticus (efada1) — 6/13/2016 @ 10:53 am

    He wasn’t hog tied.

    If Freddie Gray put half the effort in beating the system into, dunno, actually making legitimate money, he’d have been Donald Trump.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  354. In deaRborn, Houston, and some parts of Orlando that is a controversial notion, also mayor mumbles and emmanuels pal quradawi disagrees

    narciso (732bc0)

  355. Because in addition to not being able to accuse Donald Trump of murder, I can’t accuse him of stealing all his money.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  356. Daddy gave him some of it.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  357. Mr. Trump never does murder on anyone who doesn’t share his faith or sexual orientation.

    He walks the walk.

    happyfeet (831175)

  358. As opposed to Tyson foods.

    It is still an open question as to me hurling or not.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  359. “GREAT MOMENTS IN MSM MISDIRECTION:

    New York Daily News Blames NRA for Orlando Shooting.
    Planned Parenthood Blames ‘Toxic Masculinity’ for Orlando Attack.
    Media Attack Guns, Men, Christians, GOP Instead of Islam in Orlando.
    William Saletan of Slate: Trump’s Response to Orlando Is Exactly What ISIS Wants.
    It’s comforting to know that America’s newsrooms and television studios are flooded with experts who know ISIS better than ISIS itself”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/236162/

    Colonel Haiku (1cc715)

  360. GREAT MOMENTS IN MSM MISDIRECTION

    But, but, I don’t know but I’ve been told …

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=I+don%27t+know+but+I%27ve+been+cadence&view=detail&mid=DCB01B46AC65C692E46FDCB01B46AC65C692E46F&FORM=VIRE

    Ekimo p***y is mighty cold why, the LHMFM is to always be trusted.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  361. Trump’s response to the Orlando massacre on TV at 2:30pm. Tune in or Snooze out.

    ropelight (596f46)

  362. Shocka!!

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  363. Stop floggin’ yer hog, Leviticus.

    Colonel Haiku (1cc715)

  364. What Rick said above,
    we have the worst of both, police state powers cracking down on those who dare to contribute to conservative causes and making people bake wedding cakes against their will,
    and letting the terrorists run amok committing workplace violence because to add one and one and get two is forbidden if the “religion of peace” is involved.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  365. Were you in the van and saw what happened, Leviticus?

    I don’t know what happened, and I sure don’t trust news outlets to tell me the truth and all of the truth.

    MD in Philly (cf3c76)

  366. Donald Trump is disgusting for different reasons, but they are both disgusting. And I am more afraid of either one of them than I am afraid of Omar Mateen or anyone like him.

    Leviticus (efada1)

    I disagree with you on this. Yeah, our leadership has the bigger impact, but it’s at least kinda a gradual fall into decline, one that has been happening ever since LBJ with a few confusing relapses to progress like the early 80s and late 90s.

    But it’s the crazed maniac, the guy who thinks my life is worth nothing compared to a moment of fun, a moment of righteousness, or a little high, who will actually end me or those I love. Is it likely to happen? Obama thinks that way. That it happens is a fact, and it’s happening regularly. It has to stop. If I thought Trump was honest about anything I’d take a second look at him over this, but unfortunately he’s just like Hillary on politics, only dumber and lazier.

    Dustin (2a8be7)

  367. “It’s the crazed maniac, the guy who thinks my life is worth nothing compared to a moment of fun, a moment of righteousness, or a little high, who will actually end me or those I love…that it happens is a fact, and it’s happening regularly. It has to stop.”

    – Dustin

    It is a fact, and it is happening regularly, and it’s not going to stop. It’s not going to stop until we stop brainwashing people into believing that all of the misery in their lives is attributable to some mysterious and malevolent Other group.

    But we teach people that misery and struggle are an aberration rather than a norm (so that we can sell them goods and services) and that this is the fault of mysterious and malevolent others (so that we can sell them political causes). These killings aren’t going to stop until we stop teaching our kids that killing people accomplishes objectives.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  368. The crazed lone-wolf killers are statistically rare. The sanctioned killers, and the grinder itself, are ever present.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  369. Omar Mir Seddique Mateen was angry at gays for being gay.
    Apparently he spent a lot of time contemplating sex between consenting men.
    But let’s ask the question, “Whom among us hasn’t been angry at gays for dancing to the songs of the Village People on a Saturday night?”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  370. The airwaves keep pounding the blatant lie that they investigated him multiple times and never saw any reasons for concerns. Either they are lying their butts off or Mr. Gilroy is. They can’t both be telling the truth.

    I cannot imagine I’d have a job one day after I started talking about killing people in front of colleagues.

    And notice how quickly they have confirmed he is another “lone wolf!”

    Exactly how much investigation did they do to come to that conclusion?

    We are dealing with some serious shinola here!

    Do they think anyone believes anything they say any longer?

    WarEagle82 (5bf75f)

  371. yes, wareagle, phil haney who investigated san bernardino, had these two sites on his radar,
    but the investigation was shut dowm,

    narciso (732bc0)

  372. TRUMP ON OBAMA: “We’re led by a man that either is, is not tough, not smart, or he’s got something else in mind:”

    “And the something else in mind, you know, people can’t believe it. People cannot — they cannot believe that President Obama is acting the ways he acts and can’t even mention the words radical Islamic terrorism. There’s something going on. It’s inconceivable.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/236151/

    Colonel Haiku (1cc715)

  373. CS, I can honestly state, I have never been angry at teh gays for dancing to the songs of teh Village People. It never occurred to me until now.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  374. …the legend lives on from the Chippewa on down

    of the big lake they call Gitchee Gumee,

    The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead

    When the skies of November grow gloomy…

    They are still dead.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  375. now abba, they violate the vienna and geneva conventions,

    narciso (732bc0)

  376. Can’t explain it.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  377. Slædepatruljen Sirius, the dog patrol.

    Only watchable video to emerge from Scandinavia in 50 years.

    And I say this as a big van of Swedish life guards/goddesses.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  378. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4a3_1369967012

    Just to be clear the Slædepatruljen Sirius is Danish, not Swedish.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4a3_1369967012

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  379. I can also recommend a old Dean Ing novel, “Soft Targets.”

    Thank you. I’ve been trying to remember who wrote that now forever. Every time one of these groups attacks, every media outlet should make a point of ridiculing their most cherished beliefs in the most offensive possible way.

    But no.

    Even the giant security firm this monster worked for was unwilling to respond to multiple complaints about his workplace tirades and harassment of fellow workers. Because he was a Muslim and therefore had higher PC protection than even gays.

    I hope they effing choke on the wrongful death suits for failing to report this obvious menace and instead maintaining his multiple security clearances and unflagged background that allowed him to purchase the weapons he had.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  380. The Sirius Dog Patrol must be the last unit to use the 1917 Enfield in 30-06.

    Which I guess means they are serious.

    No need to thank me; I’ll be here all week.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  381. yeah what happened to the company that vetted the washington navy yard shooter,

    narciso (732bc0)

  382. Leviticus is out recruiting for Hillary again. “She will end police brutality, “extremist” nut jobs with guns, and save us from the guaranteed nuclear holocaust Trump offers.”

    spokanebob (7c8be2)

  383. Here’s the plan:

    1) Allow all kinds of nutjobs into the country.
    2) Punish anyone sho calls a nutjob a nutjob.
    3) Give the nutjobs credentials to buy guns.
    4) When the nutjobs kill people, move to ban guns.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  384. Mark Bingham would be peed off right now, if he was not a American Hero who gave his life for his fellow Americans.

    mg (31009b)

  385. “Leviticus is out recruiting for Hillary again.”

    As a great comedy routine once said, “We are building a fighting force of extwaadinawy magnitude. You have our gwatitude.”

    So now I owe Leviticus a debt of gwatitude: I used to think if somebody was an idiot, then they couldn’t also be accused of being shallow, because already an idiot. Leviticus changed all that for me: this creature is actually a shallow idiot. The Discovery Channel should make a film or something.

    That’s sort of remarkable. Well done!

    also, Hi, nk! Keep obsessively stalking! It’s charming — no, really!!

    hunson abedeer (cacaf3)

  386. i like Mr. Leviticus way way better than i like hillary

    she’s repugnernt

    happyfeet (831175)

  387. OT, jesse ventura was slapped with a cold glass of reality, the appeals court reversed his slander verdict,

    narciso (732bc0)

  388. Also, why is this guy hiding out for a week when Ahmadinejad is gunning down his own people after stealing an election but he’s johnny on the spot when somebody shoots up a gay bar.

    Yes, that’s a rhetorical question.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  389. Go play with your swastikas, Christoph.

    nk (dbc370)

  390. meanwhile on another front,

    http://lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=876644

    narciso (732bc0)

  391. Hi, nk! Huh. Still not a trace of coherent or intelligent counter-arguments from you, just bad Godwin-fail name-calling and virtue-signalling.

    Why am I not surprised?

    Oh, wait, now I remember why I’m not surprised.

    it came from the nightosphere (cacaf3)

  392. You can’t even keep the same name on the same thread, scheisskopf?

    nk (dbc370)

  393. This is going to P.O. all the right people, which is why I’m bringing it up.

    https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/battle-midway-victory-intelligence-services.html

    The Battle of Midway: A Victory of the Intelligence Services

    Nimitz said that intel was worth at least a carrier battle group.s

    Captain Edward L. Beach, of “Run Silent, Run Deep” Fame, praised CDR Joe Rochefort for perhaps being the most pivotal naval officer in history. The one irreplaceable man.

    Joe Rochfort never got the credit he deserved in his life time. Which was fine with him. He didn’t want fame or medals. It was enough for him to know he he earned his pay.

    One of the HYPO guys recalled how he went outside for a smoke. Which was a rare break. And he ran into an old shipmate. They’re talking, and another HYPO guy leaves after a 72 hour or so shift. Shipmate says, “There’s a guy who needs to go to sea and get straightened out.”

    Because of course the dude hasn’t had a haircut in a month, hasn’t shaved, and if he looks like he slept in his clothes it’s because he had. What sleep he had.

    But HYPO guy knew that the last thing his friend would want is a defense. The thing about fight club is, if you know about fight club, you don’t talk about fight club.

    So his friend said, “That guy? He’s all right.”

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  394. The only coherent argument against Nazis is the hangman’s knot. That holds together. It holds together real good.

    nk (dbc370)

  395. Joe Rochefort. Joseph John Rochefort . I should at least get the spelling right.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  396. I read about him in hastings latest, it really is striking how significant his analysis was, imagine if the torpedo squadrons, and had missed the japanese carriers, while the us fleet
    was exposed,

    narciso (732bc0)

  397. Still no coherent counter-argument, heh heh. But thanks for (((scheisskopf))).

    By all means, please, come out into the open where we can see (((you))).

    Meantime, no arguments, no analysis, just insults.

    Why am I surprised.

    Oh, I mean, why am I (((not))) surprised.

    it came from the nightosphere (cacaf3)

  398. “the hangman’s knot”

    Ah, so now, death threats. For chatting on a blog.

    Classy.

    it came from the nightosphere (cacaf3)

  399. …I read about him in hastings latest, it really is striking how significant his analysis was, imagine if the torpedo squadrons, and had missed the japanese carriers, while the us fleet was exposed,

    narciso (732bc0) — 6/13/2016 @ 9:47 pm </blockquote

    Pretty much everyone found the Japanese carriers except Stanhope Ring.

    Who in violation of all that is holy did not file an after action report. Because, and since he didn't file a report I am free to guess, he was embarrassed.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  400. 367. WarEagle82 (5bf75f) — 6/13/2016 @ 3:14 pm

    The airwaves keep pounding the blatant lie that they investigated him multiple times and never saw any reasons for concerns. Either they are lying their butts off or Mr. Gilroy is. They can’t both be telling the truth.

    An Imam the killer was connected with seems to have some special protection from some people in the FBI, like James (Whitey) Bulgar in Boston, and/or they don’t want to find needles.

    This all goes back to even before the World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

    This link courtesy of narciso @249

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html

    says:

    1. Marcus Dwayne Robertson, a black former U.S. Marine, now aged 47, and also informally known now as “Abu Taubah”, led a gang of New York bank robbers called “Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves” circa 1990, in the course of which 10 banks, private homes, and post offices were held up at gunpoint, t three police officers shot, and one cop was attacked after he was injured by a homemade pipe bomb. He was arrested in 1991.

    2. He was also accused, at some point, of being a bodyguard for Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman, leader of the World Trade Center bombers – period of time unspecified in this article. I don’t find mention of him in the index of two Peter Lance books I checked.

    3. He was also accused of having donated more than $300,000 in stolen funds to mosques he attended, period of time that the donations or the accusation was made unspecifed. What those mosques really were also unspecified.

    4. Robertson denied both of these last two claims.

    5. He cut a deal on the other charges and served four years in prison.

    6. He was an FBI informant from 2004 and 2007 tasked with documenting terrorists’ plans and networks in Africa, Egypt and the United States.

    7. He was arrested on a firearms charge in 2011 and pleaded guilty in January 2012.

    8. Then, on March 14, 2012, based on a 2011 wiretap, in which he instructed one of his students at his online “Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary,” recently re-named “Timbuktu Seminary,” to file false tax returns to obtain a tax refund to pay for travel to Mauritania for terror training, he
    was charged with conspiring to defraud the IRS.

    9. You may wonder why he wasn’t charged with giving material support to terrorism. My hunch is, somebody blocked it, but couldn’t stop the tax charge.

    10. He was convicted of the tax charge in December 2013.

    11. Prosecutors sought a sentence enhancement of 10 years on the basis of terrorism per the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

    12. But U.S. District Judge Gregory Presnell freed Robertson in June 2015 with time served.

    13. Almost everything in the case is under seal, including Robertson’s testimony. It’s probably classified.

    14. The student, who actually went to Maurentania, pleaded guilty in 2012 to lying to authorities and conspiring to defraud the IRS and was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison. Terorriasm was not one of the charges he pleaded guilty to, if it was made.

    15. Omar Mateen was another one of students.

    16. While in the John E. Polk Correctional Facility in Seminole County, Florida, Robertson was kept in shackles and assigned his own guards. Whenever he was transported to court, a seven-car caravan of armed federal marshals escorted him. He was initially moved into solitary confinement after prison authorities believed he was radicalizing up to 36 of his fellow prisoners.

    17. Robertson has openly and enthusiastically preached against homosexuality.

    18. Law enforcement sources said Sunday that Robertson, and several associates were rounded up for questioning early Sunday, but police, as well as his attorney, refused to confirm or deny that.

    Sammy Finkelman (be1e2f)

  401. 25. happyfeet (831175) — 6/12/2016 @ 8:33 am

    Clinton has proposed allowing 65,000 Syrian refugees into the country each year.

    That’s not a problem now.

    That’s a possible problem 15 to 30 years from now.

    The Wall Street Journal editorial noted this in an editorial Monday:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/jihad-in-orlando-1465772204

    Young men who are second generation immigrants seem to be especially vulnerable to calls for jihad.

    These crimes are done, almost to a man or woman, by people who are either what you might say are “born again” Muslims, or converts to Islam. (converts since about 1980 – Muhammad Ali and Kareem Abdul Jabbar was too long ago for that.)

    This does not at all fit in well with Donald Trump’s call for cutting off immigration – why immigration? Immigration is safer than visitor’s visas because immigrants have more to lose – from certain countries, which after all, would include people fleeing terrorists and informing the U.S. and so on like that.

    It’s not the immigrants you have to worry about, it’s their children. A tiny percentage of their children, but their children. Not the current generation. Because the problem is not historical 20th and 19th century Islam.

    That the problem is inherent to Islam and all Islam is Russian propaganda, and if something thinks that way, they’ll never understand what’s going on, and they’ll never get at the culprits.

    Sammy Finkelman (be1e2f)

  402. This does not at all fit in well with Donald Trump’s call for cutting off immigration – why immigration?

    Because currently our economy can’t handle any more immigrants. And because until and unless the current crop of immigrants assimilate bringing in more is not immigration it’s Balkanization.

    That the problem is inherent to Islam and all Islam is Russian propaganda,

    What does that mean? A 1400 year old state/religion is Russian propaganda?

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  403. SF: That the problem is inherent to Islam and all Islam is Russian propaganda,

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/14/2016 @ 4:40 am

    What does that mean? A 1400 year old state/religion is Russian propaganda?

    That what’s causing these massacres is something wrong with a 1400 year old state/religion, with ni further modications – that is Russian propaganda. Actually, this is something much newer.

    This is not to say that there’s nothing wrong with Islam, nor that there’s not some basis in Islam to construct a theology like this, but this is essentially an Islamic heresy.

    That’s why all the people doing this, just about to the last man and woman, are what might be called “born-again Muslims” or outright converts.

    This is a key point.

    The core element of unco-ordinated assaults on random civilians as a method of war probably first originated in fatwas written, in German, by Max von Oppenheim in Berlin in 1914, and translated into several different languages and circulated by German diplomats in the Ottoman Empire, where it did not have much or any success, although they did recruit an army. (it had much less success than the army recruited by Lawrence of Arabia becaus ethey had the practice of giving away the element iof surprise by shouting “Allah-hu Akbar)

    It took some further modifications in theology by Islamists later on in the Twentieth Century to get to the theology exemplified by Osama bin Laden. (the 1914 version still relied on a caliph claiming rulership and declaring a jihad, for instance, which was avoided till June, 2014.)

    If this had been Islam as practiced worldwide, Islam wouldn’t have been around for 1400 years! Even with an state and an army. This is not a 1400-year-old problem.

    It is an Islamic heresy that declares itself to be the one true version of Islam, but that doesn’t actually make it the authentic, or historical, version of Islam, and there are several obvious differences. For one thing, they are not supposed to kill ordinary people without judges or courts, and without military orders, and they are not supposed to kill prisoners.

    This is not a state/religion, by the way, but is anarchic, except maybe for those who swear allegiance to the caliph (supposedly in Raqqa, but really in hiding from U.S. drones) But the problem there, is that Baghdadi doesn’t have any plausible claim to the title, except one based on lies. To get this work, they lie about political facts, too. They lie about being engaged in a defensive war. ISIS lies about what it is doing. They have to make further modifications in theology to get to where they are – for instance normally execution by burning is completely forbidden.

    The Taliban and al Qaeda in the Afghanistan/Pakistan area spent two years swearing allegiance to a man who was dead, which fact they kept a secret. The people at the center of this thing are not motivated by any genuioe theological beliefs.

    Sammy Finkelman (be1e2f)

  404. “The core element of unco-ordinated assaults on random civilians as a method of war”

    Yes, because the original 1,400-year-old Islamic method of coordinated assaults on targeted populations was so much more pleasant. Who cares?

    “This is not a 1400-year-old problem.”

    This, in particular, might not be. But I can definitely cite for you a 1400-year-old problem.

    “they are not supposed to kill ordinary people without judges or courts, and without military orders, and they are not supposed to kill prisoners.”

    No, just gang-rape the hell out of them, if they’re pretty white girls.

    I do appreciate your scholarly carefulness and interest, but we’re sort of past that now.

    it came from the nightosphere (cacaf3)

  405. Sammy, Lawrence’s successes were due to his organization, leadership, and understanding of the difficulties of raiding deep (a hundred miles, say) into Ottoman territory. Not because his men were silent when attacking. If you read Revolt in the Desert, you will see that he rejoiced when he received two Rolls-Royce vehicles. One was used to haul fuel, food, water, ammunition, explosives, and spare parts. The other was armed with a machine gun and a mortar that were dismounted at the ambush site and deployed to positions over-looking the target. The drivers could maintain the cars and operate the weapons. With these vehicles he could carry vastly greater weights of modern military supplies, allowing his Arab troops to look out for themselves with regard to their own water, food, and rifles. This greatly increased his range of operations. He also preferred a .45 automatic for his own use. Researchers recently found shell casings in the hills overlooking one of his raids on the railroad. The position of the Arab riflemen was determined from a large number of rifle cartridge casings along a ridge overlooking the tracks, and a few .45 ACP casings testified to Lawrence’s presence. The explosives were used to derail the locomotive, and the mortar and machine gun then swept the train. Once the resistance was whittled down, the Arabs did sweep down upon their victims as in the movie.

    And Lawrence also preferred to commute to Cairo by biplane to report to his commander. Taken together, these are at odds with mystic Lawrence portrayed in the movie. That said, it is a great movie if only for the cinematography and the music. It’s just not history.

    And Max von Oppenheim was a Jew who set himself up with a harem in Cairo and had a great time prior to the war.

    BobStewartatHome (a52abe)

  406. BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:53 am

    And Max von Oppenheim was a Jew who set himself up with a harem in Cairo and had a great time prior to the war </blockquote. Max Von Oppenheim was not Jewish. His father converted to Catholicism and married a Catholic.

    He lioived on into the Nazi era. When the Nazis came to power, Max von Oppenheim was able to remain unmolested, in spite of being half-Jewish according to the Nazis. In 1939 and 1940 he again, as in the First World War, submitted memoranda to the German government but was not too successful in getting the Nazi government to take his advice, although some Nazi support was given to Arab politicians mentioned by Oppenheim.

    He had lost most of his money in the 1923 inflation, but still had his archeological museum in Berlin. he swas negotiaitng to sell some of that to the Nazi govbernmennt (an earlier attempt to sell some in New York had failed) when it was destroyed by a British phosphorus bomb in November 1943. Anotehr bombing raid destroyed his apartment in Berlin and with it much of his library and art collection. He moved to Dresden, where he was present but survivced the firebombing of February 1945. Having loat his possessions, he moved d to Schloss Ammerland (de) in Bavaria, where he stayed with his sister. He died on 15 November 1946 in Landshut at the age of 86.

    It turns out that not everything in the museum was destroyed. After spending decades in East germany some of it was restored.

    He never considered himself Jewish – at least after the war, he complained about the loss to germans but said nothing about the murdrr of the Jews.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  407. (the 1914 version still relied on a caliph claiming rulership and declaring a jihad, for instance, which was avoided till June, 2014.)

    Of course. Oppenheim was working on behalf of the Kaiser and his ally, the Ottoman Sultan. Who happened to be the Caliph.

    kishnevi (c5227a)

  408. “I owe Leviticus a debt of gwatitude: I used to think if somebody was an idiot, then they couldn’t also be accused of being shallow, because already an idiot. Leviticus changed all that for me: this creature is actually a shallow idiot.”

    – it came from the hunson abedeer

    I’d been bracing myself for this brutal putdown ever since you used the same putdown (verbatim) with John Hitchcock. It was considerate of you, giving me the opportunity to brace myself.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  409. …We can never expect our government to address this challenge, but someone needs to be thinking how the 1st amendment rights to freedom of religion can be disentangled from the cloaking of the violent political ideology of Islam.

    in_awe (faf180) — 6/12/2016 @ 8:12 am

    This is not specifically directed at you, in_awe, but it’s sort of amusing that this country gets wrapped around the axle about all aspects of Islam being sacrosanct. If it’s in their holy books we have to respect because, First Amendment. In fact, if we can’t find some way to elevate their holy writ (CS @66, sounds like Mateen dutifully did everything his prophet commanded) we have to pretend it’s not in their holy books on pain of being branded Islamophobes.

    But this country has no problem with the government declaring Christianity evil and bigoted and BAKE THE DAMNED CAKE YOU XTOFASCIST OR WE’LL PUT YOU OUT OF BUSINESS AND RUIN YOU!

    Actually, if you get over your Islamophobia an take an honest look at the totality of Islam there are whole swaths of the ideology that would not be problematic at all to ban. Certainly easier than banning the Mormon practice of polygamy. Unless someone is seriously thinking we need to respect Islam so much that we need to drop the age for girls to get married to 9.

    Wait one; that polygamy think will be coming back. The left hates Western Civilization so much (it’s really not a mystery; Christianity is part of Western Civilization, Islam is not) it’s not done giving Christianity the finger r.e. marriage.

    OK, bad example. And, come to think of it, if the advocates of “intergenerational love,” formerly known as pedophiles, get their way the sex-with-nine-year-olds will be the next frontier in the fight against the remnants of Jim Crow after boy-girl exclusive locker rooms.

    So, yeah, we’re just f***ed.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  410. I have never heard of Max von Oppenheim who you claim was a Jew. I’m going to pulmonary therapy now but when I get back I’ll look this guy up. Thing is fellas, I’m Prussian heritage and I come from a long line of “von’s” and I can assure you to have the noble von in your name denotes a baron (at least) and no Jews had von’s.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  411. yes, he was the German counterpart to lawrence, although there was this other fellow named pruser (sic)who did much of the hands on recruiting,

    narciso (732bc0)

  412. Steve57

    (CS @66, sounds like Mateen dutifully did everything his prophet commanded

    I think he allowed a certain amount of wife beating, but didn’t command it. Her family came to get her, because he had forced her to stop speaking to her family.

    He violated some of the tenets of Islam. He is reported to have previously gotten so drunk at that bar that he was escorted out of there. More than once. Islam, as you may know, forbids the consumption of alcoholic beverages.

    And there’s this other thing: He may have been exactly the sort of person he killed – at least his father once accused him of that, according to his first wife. That wife really doesn’t know for sure what he was.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  413. Max was a member of the Oppenheim German-Jewish banking family, although Max’s father converted to Catholicism to marry Max’s mother. Max’s grandfather received the Prussian title of Freiherr (Baron) and thereafter his family used the surname Von Oppenheim.

    DRJ (15874d)

  414. According to Wiki.

    DRJ (15874d)

  415. Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/14/2016 @ 10:49 am

    Thing is fellas, I’m Prussian heritage and I come from a long line of “von’s” and I can assure you to have the noble von in your name denotes a baron (at least) and no Jews had von’s

    Wikipedia says Max’ grandfather, Simon, who apparently remained Jewish while his son converted to Catholicism, was awarded the title of Freiherr (Baron) in Austria-Hungary in 1867 (which is by the way, the year it becae Austria-Hungary.

    This title was also valid in Prussia and so his family called itself von Oppenheim in Cologne, Prussia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_von_Oppenheim

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  416. #412 Sammy Finkelman,

    The 9/11 terrorists partied at a strip club before crashing airplanes into the World Trace Center in the name of Allah.
    But nobody would question that they were devout Muslims, right?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  417. As Wikipedia says, the title was actually awarded by Austria Hungary. But it was recognized as the equivalent of Baron in Prussia.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  418. (the 1914 version still relied on a caliph claiming rulership and declaring a jihad, for instance, which was avoided till June, 2014.)

    Of course. Oppenheim was working on behalf of the Kaiser and his ally, the Ottoman Sultan. Who happened to be the Caliph.

    kishnevi (c5227a) — 6/14/2016 @ 10:16 am

    Now we get to the meat of the matter. After losing, and losing badly, Kamal Ataturk abolished the Caliphate in 1924.

    And Hasan al-Banna founded the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928.

    http://www.biography.com/people/hassan-al-banna-9198013#!

    Egyptian Hassan al-Banna, born on October 14, 1906, founded the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928. He had multiple goals with the founding of the Muslim Brotherhood: Expel the British from Egypt and reestablish the Caliphate worldwide to halt secularization. The Muslim Brotherhood quickly gained popularity through a well organized structure with military, political and social services. He was assassinated in 1949…

    Honesty will compel me to commit multiple acts of Islamophobia, so, brace yourself, Bridget!

    Those latter three words forming the sum total of Irish foreplay.

    Ataturk abolished the Caliphate because he recognized that it had a major regtrograde effect on his society. It was the major factor behind the reality that Turkey was the sick man of Europe.

    If anyone is really interested I can go into why. But I’ll just quote Churchill, who saw the same things Ataturk did.

    “Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world,”

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/jul/08/higgs-boson-pakistan-scientist

    Higgs boson physicist shunned in Pakistan

    …Adbus Salam (sic), who died in 1996, was once hailed as a national hero for his pioneering work in physics and his contribution to Pakistan’s nuclear programme. Now his name is stricken from school textbooks because he was a member of the Ahmadi sect that has been persecuted by the government and targeted by Taliban militants, who view them as heretics…

    The UK guardian is, as in almost everything, wrong. It begins its article with the sentence:

    In what is perhaps a sign of the growing Islamic extremism in the country, Pakistan’s only Nobel laureate, who helped develop the theoretical framework that led to the apparent discovery of the subatomic “God particle” last week, is being largely scorned in his homeland because of his religious affiliation…

    Growing Islamic extremism?

    The Ahmadis have never been accepted by other Muslims as Muslims. Which, as an aside, is why I’m not afraid of Islam taking over the world, what with Shiite considering Sunnis to be apostates, and Sunnis considering Shiites to be apostates, and Sunnis and Shiites considering Ahmadis to be apostates, and the consequent religiously-justified blowing up of the mosques.

    Not that they can’t be dangerous along the way.

    But getting back to the retrograde impact Islam has on the development of society, one of the many aspects Sunni and Shiite Muslims have with the Ahmadis is, Ahmadis accept western science. Muhammad Abdus (not Adbus, Guardian) Salam had to leave Pakistan for Europe when the Pakistani legislature outlawed his sect in 1975. So, pace the Guardian, this isn’t exactly new.

    There is a reason that there have been only two Muslim scientists to earn Nobel prizes in, of all things, the sciences. And one, Muhammad Abdus Salam, was so thoroughly rejected by other Muslims that when his family buried him in Pakistan the larger Muslim community successfully petitioned to have the word “Muslim” sand blasted off of his tombstone.

    It offended them. I know; SHOCKA! I mean, Muslims are so slow to take offense.

    The other Muslim Nobel Laureate in the sciences also did his work in the West, because it would have been impossible in the Islamic world. He hasn’t been buried yet, but I expect that event to occur shortly.

    Islam is violently opposed to the sciences. And they’ll kill you if you say so. Ataturk knew that, so he reduced Islam to what was strictly religious. He abolished the caliphate to strip Islam of its political-military aspects, which he correctly observed had held the Ottoman empire back.

    Which isn’t to say that the retrograde aspects of Islam are limited to its condemnation of the sciences. There’s that little thingy about considering 50% of the population morally and intellectually inferior so not letting them drive and forcing clitorectomies on them so they can never enjoy sex and throwing acid in their faces if they dare to go to school, for instance.

    Muhammad, the prophet, was a whiny little b*tch during his Meccan period. Take “period” any way you like. He was a passive aggressive BS artist. Assuming he existed at all. Think of the idjit we all hated in elementary school who’d secretly provoke you and when you responded appropriately he’d start screaming for the teacher, “He’s hitting me! He’s hitting me!”

    But there’s another reason why the whiny little b*tchs of jihad have to go to a laundry list of butthurt going back to the Crusades and the loss of Al Andalus.

    Only the caliph can declare offensive jihad. So they have to fabricate pretenses that their jihad is defensive.

    Which was why Hassan al-Banna was horrified that Ataturk abolished the caliphate. No more offensive jihad. And his philosophy, if you wish to call it that, is still with us in the form of the modern jihadist.

    But you know, Muslims don’t like losers any more than anyone else. It’s no secret that in the 40s a lot of Muslims really dug the cut of Hitler’s jib. But then we beat him, and all of a sudden they switched their affections to the “strong horse.”

    We can do it again. This is a phenomenon that has repeated multiple times throughout history. We don’t need to kill all Muslims.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  419. Breaking, maybe?

    Baghdadi reported killed. But it was also reported he’s no longer in Raqqa.

    Baghdadi got where he was by getting the United States to kill the people higher in the hierarchy who standing in his way.

    Nah. He just wants to stop the U.S. from looking for him.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/14/us-military-officials-skeptical-reports-isis-leader-al-baghdadi-killed.html

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  420. …I think he allowed a certain amount of wife beating, but didn’t command it…

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 6/14/2016 @ 11:05 am

    No, he commanded it to keep women in line.

    And it wasn’t a “certain amount.”

    Surah 4:34 An-Nisa (The Women)

    Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband’s] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance – [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

    I went with the Sahih International transliteration so you could see all the words in brackets, which are meant to make this more acceptable to westerners.

    None of those words are in the Quran.

    So, there is no prescribed sequence of events. You can go straight to the beating if you “fear arrogance” from your wife. Again, not the words. Those are actually in the Quran. She doesn’t have to actually do anything, you’re justified in beating her anytime you’re worried she might do something.

    http://sunnah.com/bukhari/77

    Rifa`a divorced his wife whereupon `AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. `Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) came, `Aisha said, “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!

    In case the meaning isn’t clear, Aisha, the “Mother of the Faithful,” Muhammad’s favorite wife, is saying even the pagan women don’t get treated as badly by their husbands as Muslim women.

    One of he bigger loads of crap delivered up by Muslims is that Muhammad was the “first feminist.” And, laughably, they’ll point to Muhammad’s first wife, Khadijah, who was a wealthy entrepreneur.

    Who was a wealthy pagan entrepreneur. Muhammad basically married his boss, as he worked for her. Years before he supposedly received revelation. She died before he became “the prophet of Allah.”

    Other than putting a stop to the pre-Islamic practice of exposing unwanted girl babies to the desert Muhammad was a YUUUUGE step backward for the cause of women’s rights.

    When `AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, “By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this,” holding and showing the fringe of her garment, `Abdur-Rahman said, “By Allah, O Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ)! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa`a.” Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said, to her, “If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa`a unless `Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you.” Then the Prophet (ﷺ) saw two boys with `Abdur- Rahman and asked (him), “Are these your sons?” On that `AbdurRahman said, “Yes.” The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,”

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  421. * Again, note the words…

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  422. Steve57 @418.

    Growing Islamic extremism?

    That’s what I said.

    This is something new, not old. Not traditional Islam, but what amounts to an Islamic heresy. The people committing acts of terror are either “born again” Muslims or converts. There are just about no exceptions.

    Yes, Islamic philosophy has generally been against secular knowledge since the time of al-Ghazali (c. 1058 – 18 December 1111) in the east, and 200 years later in Spain.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali

    Others have cited his opposition to certain strands of Islamic philosophy as a detriment to Islamic scientific progress.

    Steve 57:

    There’s that little thingy about considering 50% of the population morally and intellectually inferior so not letting them drive and forcing clitorectomies on them so they can never enjoy sex and throwing acid in their faces if they dare to go to school, for instance.

    Not letting women drive is limited almost entirely to Saudi Arabia. Cclitorectomies are not actually Islam, but practiced by certain tribes. Interfering with schooling is mostly al Qaeda and things like it.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  423. Sammy,

    Clitoridectomies, not allowing women to drive, honor killings, and throwing gays off buildings.
    And not allowing houses of worship by other religions.

    The one thing all these people have in common, if not geography, and tribal affiliation, is Islam.
    For a New York liberal such as yourself, that may be a difficult concept to digest, but it’s truthful.
    We must have fidelity to truth, first and foremost.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  424. 419. That just infruriates people more, the fact that it was relatively easy to find and kill this cretin at will, but for whichever ends, he was more useful to TPTB alive and able to inflict mayhem.

    Not settling a situation when it is in your grasp to do so is a recipe for electoral failure – on a more innocuous scale, I’m convinced Rauner beat Quinn in 2014 for IL governor in no small measure to Quinn’s penchant for letting situations reach a crisis stage, then coming in as the white knight. He let a teacher’s strike linger throughout all of October in Waukegan, and then had a meeting right before Halloween and woudnt you know, new contract. When the polls showed a tie, he started throwing grant money to all sorts of pet projects on the final weekend of the campaign. Im glad some people saw through that crap.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  425. Thank you Simon Jester. I looked it up the moment I returned home because being of Prussian heritage (plus other stuff) we have several Family Bibles which was the way to track families back then. No ancestery.com needed. And our family history shows my 12th great grandfather receiving his “von” when he was made a Baron at some battle in the Silesian War. He apparently saved some Prussian Duke and killed a couple Austrian officers in the fight. At lest that’s the story. Sounds like an idiot I’d be related to. He was elevated to Count in 1749 right before he and his family left for America so he could kill Frenchmen. It’s all in our Bibles, the things are a fantastic source of family info. I don’t know if they’re true but they make interesting reading. But now we know he converted then got the “von”.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  426. Those are the standard excuses, Sammy, of those who would blind themselves.

    Surah 5:32-33 Al-Ma’idah (The Table Spread)

    Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel

    Got that? This is not Allah’s decree for the Muslims. We’ll get to that in a New York minute.

    that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

    Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger

    Told you.

    and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

    What is included in the crime of spreading corruption on the earth? It’s undefined. But it can easily include women driving, or going to school, or wearing jeans for that matter.

    Muslim apologists would have you believe that honor killings are not Islamic.

    But when you go through their sources, you learn otherwise.

    Wikipedia is not dispositive. But my absolutely reliable sources are not available on line. So I’m quoting Wikipedia, which simple repeats what reliable texts have to say on the subject.

    I am for familiar with the term “blood whit” as the equivalent of the Arabic Qisas.

    Qisas and honor crimes

    According to most variations of Sharia, neither Qisas nor Tazir applies if a Muslim parent or grandparent kills their child[20] or grandchild,[26] or if the murder victim is a spouse with whom one has surviving children.[26] The culprit can be, however, subject to Diyya (financial compensation) which is payable to the surviving heirs of the victims.[26]

    The four major schools of Sunni Sharia have been divided on applicability of Qisas when the victim is a child, and the father is the murderer. The Hanafi, Shafi’i and Hanbali Sunni sharias have ruled that Qisas does not apply, as has the Shia Sharia doctrine. The Maliki school, however, has ruled that Qisas may be demanded by the mother if a father kills his son.[1][27]

    No mention of daughters. A man can kill his daughter or granddaughter with no fear of Lex Talionis.

    The Hanafi, Hanbali and Shafi’i sharia extend this principle to cases when the victim is a child and the mother or grandparents are the murderers.[22][28]…

    The justification isn’t contained in one place. Bits and pieces are contained in multiple locations. The problem for the “moderates” is that there is actual theological justification for everything I’ve mentioned. It is Islamic. It’s why people like al-Baghdadi and al-Banna keep winning the argument.

    That and the RPGs.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  427. It’s almost unheard of for an Islamic honor killing to target a son. Because it’s impossible, really, for a boy to dishonor a family through an act of sexual impurity which is what nearly all honor killings boil down to. Whether real or merely suspected acts of sexual impurity. Like being seen alone with a boy.

    It may have happened. I can’t categorically say it has never happened, as nobody has the job of telling me about all Islamic honor killings everywhere. But I do a pretty good job of staying on top of these kinds of things.

    Nor am I going to pretend that every honor killing is committed by Muslims. Something like 97% are. Almost all the other small percentage are committed by people like Sikhs or Yazidis who have to live in close proximity to Muslims and can’t survive if they allow their women to “shame” them.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  428. 404. “they are not supposed to kill ordinary people without judges or courts, and without military orders, and they are not supposed to kill prisoners.”

    it came from the nightosphere (cacaf3) — 6/14/2016 @ 6:22 am

    No, just gang-rape the hell out of them, if they’re pretty white girls.

    Gang rape isn’t any more historical Islam than the other two. And what is this about white girls? They are also white, in most cases. While black Islamists, like Boko Haram or Al Shabab, go after girls of the same color – because those are the only people around if for no other reason.

    404.“The core element of unco-ordinated assaults on random civilians as a method of war”

    Yes, because the original 1,400-year-old Islamic method of coordinated assaults on targeted populations was so much more pleasant. Who cares?

    War is only an occcasional thing, and more deterrable, where it only takes place if there is a serious attempt to take over territory.

    Sammy Finkelman (be1e2f)

  429. …I think he allowed a certain amount of wife beating, but didn’t command it…

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 6/14/2016 @ 11:05 am

    420. Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/14/2016 @ 12:01 pm

    No, he commanded it to keep women in line….

    Surah 4:34 An-Nisa (The Women)

    Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband’s] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance – [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

    I went with the Sahih International transliteration so you could see all the words in brackets, which are meant to make this more acceptable to westerners.

    You didn’t seem to notice the clause:

    from whom you fear arrogance

    This makes it voluntary. It is also not clear what this word translated arrogance is. It may be a strong limitation. It seems to concern assoiating with other men. David French was telling his wife not to do that! Not that that was really good. Mohammed also offered several alternative methods of proceeding in order for a man to control his wives: 1) advise them [not to do X presumably] 2) forsake them in bed and 3) strike them. If these are not sequential, but alternatives, it means any, including the beating, can be omitted altogether. All of this is permissive, not mandatory. And he doesn’t say if nothing works just keep on beating them or anything.

    Omar Mateen did not beat his first wife because he thought he had to do it according to his religion. That’s kind of ridiculous. He did it because of a character flaw. He may have believed he had a right to demand she do what he said. But her family did not accept this idea, or that idea, and if you say they were from Uzbekistan, I would guess they never had this idea that a man must beat his wife, even before Soviet times.

    In any case her family went there to see her, four months into the marriage, because he had cut her off from communicating, and they took out of there and away from him. She had to leave all her possessions behind.

    And it wasn’t a “certain amount.”

    Didn’t he tell them to STOP “if they obey you?” That’s a limit.

    Muhammad basically married his boss, as he worked for her.

    Well, actually he originally worked for her husband. Then he thought the same thing was true of Joseph, and that Joseph also had wanted to be with Potiphar’s wife but that they restrained themselves. He changed the story and made Potiphar’s wife into a hero, along with Joseph. He must have identified with Joseph. He married Khadijah after her husband died.

    Years before he supposedly received revelation. She died before he became “the prophet of Allah.”

    Wait a second -is that right? Who was his wife at that time, then?

    “If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa`a unless `Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you.”

    What a twisted principle!

    I am not sure what that story is getting at, though. That he tolerated wife beating, yes. That he commanded it, no.

    Sammy Finkelman (be1e2f)

  430. We decreed upon the Children of Israel

    Islam claims that the same law was give five times, to Abraham, to Moses, to David, to Jesus and to Mohammed, so not to kill people is not a special commandment to Jews – nor would the idea that it is fit in very well with Islamic supremacy, particularly given the reason supplied.

    that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.

    That’s pretty close to a quote from the Talmud. Mohammed, of course only knew of things like that from word of mouth. (But these modifying clauses aren’t there, I think, but may go without saying.

    Sammy Finkelman (be1e2f)

  431. I should be more precise in my use of language.

    When Muhammad ran out of that cave in terror it was Khadijah and her cousin who convinced Muhammad that he was a prophet of Allah, as opposed to being possessed by a Jinn or evil spirit.

    So, according to the Islamic sources (which I am convinced based on the available evidence are complete fabrications, but Muslims believe them) she was Muhammad’s first convert.

    But, she died two years before the Hijra to Yathrib (Medina, now) which is supposed to be the beginning of the Islamic era. So she married Muhammad years before he became the prophet of Allah, she was still alive when Muhammad supposedly received revelation. But she died during Jahiliyyah, the pre-Islamic age of ignorance.

    Also, Muhammad never worked for her husband. Khadijah was already a widow when he met her.

    “If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa`a unless `Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you.”

    What a twisted principle!

    Muhammad had a lot of weird ideas.

    …I am not sure what that story is getting at, though. That he tolerated wife beating, yes. That he commanded it, no.

    Sammy Finkelman (be1e2f) — 6/14/2016 @ 2:54 pm

    The Islamic sources are very clear on what that story is getting at.

    She deserved that beating. It would have been wrong for her husband not to give her that beating. And she needed to straighten up and fly right if she didn’t want another beating.

    Narrated `Abdullah bin `Abbas:

    The sun eclipsed in the lifetime of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) . Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) offered the eclipse prayer and stood for a long period equal to the period in which one could recite Surat-al-Baqara. Then he bowed for a long time and then stood up for a long period which was shorter than that of the first standing, then bowed again for a long time but for a shorter period than the first; then he prostrated twice and then stood up for a long period which was shorter than that of the first standing; then he bowed for a long time which was shorter than the previous one, and then he raised his head and stood up for a long period which was shorter than the first standing, then he bowed for a long time which was shorter than the first bowing, and then prostrated (twice) and finished the prayer. By then, the sun (eclipse) had cleared. The Prophet (ﷺ) then said, “The sun and the moon are two of the signs of Allah. They eclipse neither because of the death of somebody nor because of his life (i.e. birth). So when you see them, remember Allah.” The people say, “O Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ)! We saw you taking something from your place and then we saw you retreating.” The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, “I saw Paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ)! Why is it so?” The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, “Because of their ungratefulness.” It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet said, “They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds. If you are benevolent to one of them throughout the life and if she sees anything (undesirable) in you, she will say, ‘I have never had any good from you.’ ”

    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 1052
    In-book reference : Book 16, Hadith 12
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 2, Book 18, Hadith 161
    (deprecated numbering scheme)

    Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:

    On `Id ul Fitr or `Id ul Adha Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, “O people! Give alms.” Then he went towards the women and said. “O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women).” The women asked, “O Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ)! What is the reason for it?” He replied, “O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray.” Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Mas`ud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, “O Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ)! It is Zainab.” He asked, ‘Which Zainab?” The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas’ub. He said, “Yes, allow her to enter.” And she was admitted. Then she said, “O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Mas`ud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else.” The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, “Ibn Mas`ud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else.”

    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 1462
    In-book reference : Book 24, Hadith 65
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 2, Book 24, Hadith 541
    (deprecated numbering scheme)

    Muhammad had an extremely low opinion of women. Except as sex objects; they’re good for that. But it is an Islamic principle that the testimony of a woman is worth half that of a man because of their moral and intellectual inferiority to men.

    Quran 4:34 An-Nisa (The Women)

    Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth…

    Men are better than women. They’re in charge. And as Muhammad makes amply clear, when you’re in charge you effin’ take charge.

    The beatings are just part and parcel of the “take charge” part.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  432. It’s come to this. According to CNN if I say, “I think marriage is between a man and a woman” that’s code, dog-whistle, whatever, for, “I want to tear off your head and sh*t down your neck.”

    http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2016/06/14/anderson-cooper-reveals-damning-proof-that-fla-ag-pam-bondi-is-a-raging-homophobe/

    Meanwhile, it’s Islamophobic to suspect Muslims of wanting to tear off gay people’s heads so they can sh*t down their necks.

    Because, silly, they don’t tear of their heads. They collapse walls on them, throw them off tall buildings, hang them from cranes, but they don’t tear off their heads.

    And it’s all my fault.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  433. and anderson vanderbilt helped unleash this storm with the Arab winter, the Iranian imam who is an unperson in the media, here is not so fortunate down under,

    narciso (732bc0)

  434. Gloria Vanderbilt’s son would never in a million years grill an imam the way he grilled Pam Bondi. I mean, he’s blasting her for NOT ever tweeting out any ‘gay pride!’ tweets, but he won’t ever get in the face of an imam who has tweeted out nasty hateful things about gays.
    So in reality, Gloria Vanderbilt’s son is the hypocrite.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  435. Yes, CS, that is correct.

    Steve57 (e33d44)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.9398 secs.