How Obama’s Homeland Security Department Elevated Political Correctness Over Saving Lives
Political correctness cost 14 lives:
Fearing a civil liberties backlash and “bad public relations” for the Obama administration, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson refused in early 2014 to end a secret U.S. policy that prohibited immigration officials from reviewing the social media messages of all foreign citizens applying for U.S. visas, a former senior department official said.
“During that time period immigration officials were not allowed to use or review social media as part of the screening process,” John Cohen, a former acting under-secretary at DHS for intelligence and analysis. Cohen is now a national security consultant for ABC News.
. . . .
The revelation comes as members of Congress question why U.S. officials failed to review the social media posts of San Bernardino terrorist Tashfeen Malik. She received a U.S. visa in May 2014, despite what the FBI said were extensive social media messages about jihad and martyrdom.
Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., demanded Sunday that the U.S. immediately initiate a program that would check the social media sites of those admitted on visas.”
“Had they checked out Tashfeen Malik,” the senator said, “maybe those people in San Bernardino would be alive.”
I think someone said recently that we need to make these mass shootings harder. That someone, who occupies the White House, suggested that gun control was somehow the thing we needed — even though his fool of a spokesman could not name a recent mass shooting that would have been stopped by gun control.
But you know what would have prevented the San Bernardino mass shooting?
Having someone in the Oval Office who takes the threat of Islamic terrorism seriously enough to prioritize safety over concerns about “bad public relations.”
January 20, 2017 cannot come fast enough.
Time for Big Media to issue a collective yawn.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/14/2015 @ 7:40 amThat someone, who occupies the White House
It’s gotten to the point where the name of the person currently in the Oval Office should not be mentioned, to be avoided at all costs, to be treated like the name of the main character in the movie “Bettlejuice.”
Mark (f713e4) — 12/14/2015 @ 8:00 amI’ve found Obola to suffice when “current administration”, “occupant of the WH”, and “feckless fool” won’t work.
Which reminds me, the data that should have been collected from the Obola outbreak last year hasn’t been publicly announced. Is the disease capable of transmission by the air? How many people developed the antibody without showing any symptoms, and are they contagious to others? It’s pretty clear the disease wasn’t as dangerous in the U. S., perhaps due to something as simple as a better diet. Otherwise the hundreds of people who were exposed, including family members who lived with the first victim for a number of days, should have developed at least one case.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 12/14/2015 @ 8:50 amOn the other hand, the Lois Lerner wannabes in Homeland Security can then cause problems for anyone who they think might have right-of-center views, based upon their social media posts. You aren’t cool with judicially-enacted gay marriage? Your visa is denied. You admire the fact that the U.S. allows its citizens to possess firearms for self-defense? Your visa is denied. You think that the whole global warming crowd might be a tad bit alarmist? Your visa is denied.
JVW (d60453) — 12/14/2015 @ 8:53 amBut…what about all the reassuring post-Paris articles insisting that all Syrians refugees go through a “rigorous” and “intensive” background check? The one titled “What Republicans don’t Get” about Syrian refugee checks?
The ones intimating that those little state governors need to leave the Big Issues to the Big People?
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (5e0a82) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:06 amI’m beginning to think he’s mentally ill.
Patricia (5fc097) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:25 amI have had a hard time thinking anything good about Schumer since he led the smear against Charles Pickering,
But sometimes he does show some reason,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:25 amThough out of principle or political calculation I can’t say.
Maybe Schumer, being from NY, takes terrorism a bit personally, for the good.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:27 amI think some are not so much mentally ill as morally I’ll. They can use reason, but their moral compass is out of whack and can’t guide their reason appropriately.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:30 amI like to refer to the usurper at 1600 Penn Ave as Comrade Urkel or President Buckwheat.
John Cunningham (854e8c) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:30 amAnd his stagger stole Mike steele’s ss#, and comey, our current fouche was his creature in the 00s.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:38 amForeign citizens’ public social media posts are out of bounds because of fear of the way it may look and privacy concerns? Foreign citizens have no right of privacy when attempting to enter the US.
Walter Cronanty (f48cd5) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:39 am“Political Correctness” is literally, and figuratively, killing this country. Add the above article to the fact that a neighbor was suspicious of activity at Farook’s property, but was afraid to say anything lest she be called an “Islamaphobe,” and then add our Administration’s fear of stating the obvious – Islamic Terrorists are at war with us – and you have a nation committing suicide by offendophobia [yeah, I made that word up].
Mayorkas the handler, was a crony of mcauliffe, in some scam having to do with visas.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:40 amThings might change if DC had to live by the rules they impose on the rest of us, including no special security or surveillance for elites. As long as they are safe, they are perfectly willing to sacrifice the rest of us for PC reasons.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:46 amOh no no no. The answer is to take away the civil liberties and human rights of people who want to possess a consumer product!
CrustyB (69f730) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:46 amI wonder how much Trump’s polls would go up if he said DC should ban guns for police and federal agents? That might Make DC Listen.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:50 am@7– Doc (wherever you might be at the time), there is some saying regarding blind hogs and acorns that might apply to Schumer here.
But, yeah, just when you think you have them figured out, bang!, they surprise you.
Gramps (c50fca) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:58 amAnd while I’m bashing Obama’s ideas, why is it okay to put Special Forces’ boots on the ground but not regular military? Could it be because those deaths are handled quietly, where the public doesn’t see them, so Obama doesn’t care about them?
DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2015 @ 10:01 amSchumer knows NYC is the terrorists’ #1 target. That gives him an incentive to care.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2015 @ 10:02 amI’m beginning to think he’s mentally ill.
The quip (or theory) that liberalism is a form of mental illness is being well illustrated by the main occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
BTW, I’ve decided that the current user of the Oval Office from now on will be designated by me as “What’s-His-Name,” because he’s so contemptible, pathetic and irresponsible that his actual name deserves to be socked away in anonymous infamy forever after.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/14/2015 @ 10:02 amSo, the government can paw through a citizen’s bank statements, ISPs logs and cached email, phone records, etc — all of which are supposedly private — but will not look at stuff a foreign visa applicant willingly puts up for everyone to see?
When did “Blame America First” become “Screw Americans First”? This president actively hates America.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/14/2015 @ 10:07 amwhy is it okay to put Special Forces’ boots on the ground but not regular military?
Because it’s all secret.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/14/2015 @ 10:09 amSo, Jeh refused to end the policy. Who put it in place? You’d think if it was Bush, that would have been the headline.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/14/2015 @ 10:12 amThe chair in the Oval Office has never been more empty. Empty suit, empty chair… cui bono?
Here’s a clue: it ain’t America.
Colonel Haiku (b5bb0f) — 12/14/2015 @ 10:21 amPolitical correctness or Jeff Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, Sergey Brin, and Tim Cook, who don’t want their businesses messed with? You know, the guys who get private meetings with Obama just by dropping by?
nk (dbc370) — 12/14/2015 @ 10:23 amThings might change if DC had to live by the rules they impose on the rest of us, including no special security or surveillance for elites. As long as they are safe, they are perfectly willing to sacrifice the rest of us for PC reasons.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2015 @ 9:46 am
That would be my #1 campaign issue if I had the money to run myself, and I bet I would win as a 3rd party independent. Federal elected officials and fed employees would have to live by the samne rules as everyone else, no alternative to SS, no exemptions for Obamacare, no difference in what would qualify as “insider trading” (according to my limited understanding of it).
#2 make and actually keep a campaign promise to make bills on public record and read them myself before they are signed.
#3 Spending bills would be broken into departments, I would not sign any omnibus extension bills. I would make the WH and staff eat PB sandwiches in the event of a government funding crisis. I would not close National Parks.
The biggest problem is that my poor family would not likely survive the abuse the media would put them through, so I’d have to send them on a first family protection program to some isolated place first.
I bet I would win with that, really, I would,
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 11:00 amHow many of you would support such a platform?
I would. You had me at:
” Federal elected officials and fed employees would have to live by the samne rules as everyone else,”
felipe (b5e0f4) — 12/14/2015 @ 11:12 amThe administration is counting on a fair number of these foreign visitors to “accidentally” vote (for Democrats.) Studies of votes cast illegally by alien residents suggest that about 5% make this “mistake”, over and over and over again. And Hispanic agitators have promised to flood the 2016 elections with such accidental voters. That being the case, from the Democrats’ point of view, they are simply looking after another group of constituents with their objections to thorough vetting of foreign visitors. Every one turned away is potentially another vote lost in the next election. Felons are a similar demographic, explaining the mass release of prisoners that so often occur in Democrat-controlled states.
I’ve noticed that a number of our Democrat-infested municipalities have toyed with the idea of granting a vote to alien residents for local offices. I suppose the idea is that they’d be given the same ballots as everyone else, but they’d promise not to vote for State or Federal issues and candidates. What could possibly go wrong?
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 12/14/2015 @ 11:32 amRelevant to the discussion. I almost never listen to Michael Medved. I can’t stand the guy, and last week he demonstrated why. Somehow or other the subject of Sharia came up, and concern troll Medved was berating those listeners who called in with worries about Sharia. He kept telling his listeners that they had everything wrong and what ISIS promotes as Sharia is the most intemperate interpretation.
Which implies, does it not, that there’s a more tolerant interpretation.
So I tried to call a couple of times but the but gave up as the line was busy and his show was about to end anyway. I was enthusiastic to know where he was getting his tolerant version of Islam. I doubt he could name the still-extant madhabs, or schools of Sharia. He kept going on about his American Muslim friends, but “American Muslim friends” aren’t a recognized religious authority within Islam. I really wanted to put him on the spot, but precisely because I could call him bout I doubt I could get past the call screener should a line had been free.
I would have headed him off at the pass. Sometimes people will quote from texts by authors who subscribe to the Maliki school of Islamic jurisprudence. And if you selectively quote it, it does appear to be more tolerant then the other madhabs. For instance, according to the Maliki jurists if a Muslim apostacizes a thousand times, but repents a thousand times, you must accept his or her repentance. But, the Malikis still prescribe the same punishment for an apostate as all other Sharia jurists if the Muslim does not repent and return to the Islamic fold. And that punishment is death.
Drawing the obvious conclusion just isn’t nice. Which is why Saudi Arabia is threatening to sue anyone who compares their justice system to ISIS.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2015/11/28/saudi-arabia-to-sue-anyone-who-compares-their-justice-system-to-isis-n2086016?utm_source=BreakingOnTownhallWidget_4&utm_medium=story&utm_campaign=BreakingOnTownhall
This is what you have to do when you’re losing an argument. Imam Obama and Imam Kerry can go on all they like about how there’s nothing Islamic about the Islamic state. But they’re all sorts of reverent about the self-tyled Islamic Republic of Iran. There just isn’t much difference when you look at the religious improprieties that will get you executed in the very Islamic countries of Saudi Arabia or Iran as opposed to what our noted Islamic theologians have pronounced to be the un-Islamic state in Syria and Iraq.
Now apparently the Saudis are in charge of DHS. So it’s illegal to look. Because if you look, you will find. I’ve mentioned before, probably so many times that if you’re reading this you’re no doubt just as sick of me saying it as I am, that this administration has completely caved to Muslim demands to redefine counter terror intel analysis as a form of “Islamophobia.” Whatever the h3ll that’s supposed to be. It seems to be nothing more than reading the primary sources and actually taking it at its word. Now you can’t even read the sources, let alone analyze them. You might think unkind things about the writer.
Just how suicidal are we? I get the impression that as far as the Western leftists are concerned the real crime being committed on all the ISIS beheading videos isn’t the murder. It’s that one of those non-Muslims might have let a stray “Islamophobic” thought pass through his mind when the Muslim puts a knife to his throat.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 11:34 amWait is this the same Chuck Schumer quoted here, http://pix11.com/2015/12/13/schumer-cuomo-feds-should-close-loophole-allowing-people-on-terror-watch-list-to-buy-guns/
Please define “potential terrorist” fot the world, Chuck. I am afraid that your description would cover a number of Americans who disagree with you on policy but your lackeys say are “UnAmerican” and “Right Wing Terrorist” in their attitude.
Charles (f7af53) — 12/14/2015 @ 11:37 amI generally do not enjoy listening to Medved either.
In one way he is like David Horowitz, he once was on the left and saw the error of his ways and became conservative.
Unlike Horowitz, thought, he still thinks of leftists as being good people just wrong,
not just the average guy in the street low-info person,
but the Obamas of the world who know exactly what they are doing.
I don’t understand that. Maybe it is because he thinks in terms of political persuasion and thinks telling the truth would be just too hard for people to believe, IDK.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 11:52 amI’m on that list, Charles, per Janet Napolitano. I’m a veteran, and veterans are potential terrorists.
No doubt I fall into other categories DHS agents have told LEOs to watch out for. And I suspect they’d have no problem monitoring my social media.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 11:53 amFor instance, according to the Maliki jurists if a Muslim apostacizes a thousand times, but repents a thousand times, you must accept his or her repentance. But, the Malikis still prescribe the same punishment for an apostate as all other Sharia jurists if the Muslim does not repent and return to the Islamic fold. And that punishment is death.
Many liberals, assuming they’re not totally brain dead, have to be fully aware of just how frighteningly reactionary or, if it will please the left (since they do get satisfaction when “conservative” is made to look bad or like the boogeyman), ultra-conservative that Sharia-ism or Mohammed’s Islam really is. Yet just as much of the left rationalized or excused away the extremism of Communism — which at least could be ascribed to the foolish belief that Communists are do-gooders looking out for the common man, for the proletariat — for some reason much of that same left is rationalizing or excusing away the extremism of Islam.
What the hell is wrong with the liberal-addled mind?!
Mark (74fce8) — 12/14/2015 @ 12:10 pmExactly, Dottore!
I believe it was 2012 when my dislike for Medved really solidified. I had always found his
“concerned conservative” act off-putting. But during the 2012 election he kept lecturing
his listeners that it wasn’t helpful to tell people that Obama was something other than a
nice guy with only the best intentions toward America.
And no, I don’t want to dredge up what some people might have said in error about Barack Obama said in 2008. I don’t care what time people on my side showed up to the rodeo, just that they showed up is the important thing. Everybody has the right to be wrong. I’ve been wrong in the past, and I expect to be wrong a lot more in the future. One of my favorite books is Japanese Destroyer
Captain by Tameichi Hara. He represented what was best in the Japanese Navy in WWII, and from a professional point of view there was a lot to respect. He observed that you learn more in a single battle then you’ll learn in a thousand exercises, and one of the things you learn is that the losing side simply out blunders the winning side. Both sides scr3w up, it’s just that one side manages to scr3w up slightly less. Such is life.
Getting back to cases, and in the interest of not scr3wing up more than the other side, is
it too much to ask concern trolls like Michael Medved (I don’t know if he’s sincere or if
it’s just an act) to tell me what I’m getting wrong before declaring me unhelpful. I expect
that sort of criticism from Hillary!, because she’s a Clinton. And since when has a Clinton
found the truth to be helpful. But if you’re a Burkean conservative you have to go where
the evidence leads.
I am convinced that by 2012 every sane American had concluded that if Obama was staying the
course, President Ditherington Like-Your-Doctor-Keep-Your-Doctor Bomby Pants McMomJeans was doing so because he was getting exactly the results Valerie Jarrett told him to get. I’m also convinced the people Imam Obama and Imam Kerry and Imam Medved lecture me are hijacking a religion, aren’t. Because it’s all too easy. It should be harder to hijack a religion. Occam’s Razor tells me they’re getting away with it because they have a convincing argument that their coreligionists can’t best.
Is it too much to ask Michael Medved to cite a source? It isn’t like I haven’t tried to find a source to form a more kind interpretation of Islam. I’ve looked and looked, and try as I might I can’t find the doctrinal authority for the tolerant Islam that exists in his imagination.
In a previous comment I mentioned that grasping the obvious is the only thing I bring to bear on any subject. It’s not a skill to be despised. Medved, it seems, would try to talk me out of it. I believe people like him helped lose the election in 2012. Michael Medved strikes me as the sort of guy who would convince himself the only “reasonable” course of action was to make a deal and open the city gates to the barbarians.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 1:01 pmSteve 57
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 1:27 pmAre you familiar with Zuddi Jasser (spelling?)?
I think he is legit, but he doesn’t speak for all Muslims.
I don’t know how many he does speak for,
I don’t know if it makes any difference unless they are actively cooperating to id and isolate the jihadists
I think you mean this fellow, MD…
http://aifdemocracy.org/
Simon Jester (2708f4) — 12/14/2015 @ 1:39 pmYour headline reads:
How Obama’s Homeland Security Department Elevated Political Correctness Over Saving Lives
IFIFY
How Obama’s Homeland Security Department Used Political Correctness to Elevate Jihadi Objectives Over Saving the Lives of Americans
ropelight (7e1792) — 12/14/2015 @ 1:45 pmSeven and they’re all transgender.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/14/2015 @ 1:57 pm“January 20, 2017 cannot come fast enough.”
Sadly January 2016 comes first. The last few days corporate junk bonds are reprising Lehman. The rest of the week will be worse.
QED, the music has stopped.
DNF (755a85) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:07 pmI have been b!tching about this since the first World Trade attack in ’93, Steve57 and MD in Philly. I went through a time in my life as a lot of people do, where I was not sure what I believed in faith-wise. I had moved through several Protestant sects and found them too politically weak, i.e. leftist. I looked into Islam. I read the Quran and studied other books on the religion. I even outlined the entire Quran to better understand it and how it refers to itself. I recall thinking how morally corrupt and inhuman the religion was and then I realized it wasn’t a religion at all. At least not as Christians would think of one. Rather it was a theocratic form of government without borders.
With this Syrian (and any damn moslem) refugee/immigrant thing we are Troy and the moslems are the Greeks. If we bring in their phony horse they will come out to slay us. Make no mistake.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:12 pmDoc, I am familiar with Zuhdi Jasser. Who you may well be aware was a U.S. Navy doctor.I
To cut to the chase, I resent this current fiction that I have only formed my opinion of Islam because I had some pre-concieved hateful notion about Islam. I had no idea about Islam until it made itself painfully aware of it. Then I tried to learn about it. And the more I learned, the less I liked it.
It would be nice if all the people who accuse me of getting Islam wrong would point me to a a source where I could get Islam right. I haven’t heard of it. Worse, Muslims haven’t heard of it.
I wish Dr. Jasser all the luck in the world. I bear no ill will toward Muslims. Dr. Jasser is my brother in humanity, and will continue to be no matter what ISIS or AQ or whatever does
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:14 pmin his name. I am not optimistic about his chances, but he has my entire support.
Ask yourself this: when in your entire life, even during the holiday seasons have you ever seen ads on TV by moslems, mosques or imams asking for money to feed the poor, clothe the naked, build houses for habitat, save an animal even a whale, get clean water or fresh food to a child in Africa or send medical supplies to the sick? Never. And you never will.
The fact that we as a Judeo-Christian culture do these things can either be a point of strength or a point of weakness. If we allow the moslems to twist our belief in Freedom of Religion to include their demented Theocracy then they will judge us weak. And they will destroy us. If however, we rally behind our ability to separate the evil from the good we can win. But we can’t do it being politically correct. We must state unequivocally that we do not recognize Islam as a religion but rather a theocratic form of government. Islam is not Freedom of Religion it is Religious Abuse.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:25 pmI have to clarify part of what I said. Or, retract, if you prefer. I did have a notion about Islam. But in my defense I didn’t think seriously about it while I was still in college. Islamic studies were just a bunch of electives I took because I could reuse the papers I wrote about Soviet Central Asia, which I needed as I was a Poli Sci major with an emphasis on international relations. Double majoring in Islamic studies cut my work load in half. Except I didn’t double major in Islamic studies as that would have required me to bear the burden of having a religious studies degree attached to me while I was worried it would be hard enough to get through life just with the poli sci degree.
Later, when the vagaries of affirmative action caught up with me (I was an intel officer because as my recruiter told me the Navy already had enough white pilots) my study of Islam proved useful. But I didn’t know it at the time. As far as I was concerned it was just a short cut I took to spending more time on the beach.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:32 pmyou can see how they wouldn’t want to look too closely
https://pjmedia.com/blog/deobandi-roots-of-san-bernadino-jihad
I know he’s considered an islamophobe, which really means self aware like maj stephen coughlin, he’s aware of the subject,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:35 pmI could have double majored in Poli Sci and Islamic studies. I didn’t see the point.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:36 pmnarciso, I take it you’ve seen MAJ Coughlin’s videos on Islam?
He tells the story of truth suppression better than I can. As I said, I first encountered Islam in college back in the eighties. I didn’t think too much about it. It was only later.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:41 pmwell they do have an option for charity, called zakat, this is the loophole that all these jihad supporting organizations like IIRO, Holy Land, General Benevolence, hide behind,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:43 pmIslam is not Freedom of Religion it is Religious Abuse.
Far too many people are ignorant of (as I was until not too many years ago) just how violent, vengeful and diabolical was the founder of Islam. In effect, the jihadists can point to the history of Mohamed and proclaim, “see, we’re merely doing what our great prophet did!”
How anyone can square that fact with the phrase “religion of peace” (a shout out to George W Bush the day after 9-11!) is beyond me.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:45 pmNo but I have read of his work, particularly how he uncovered that Islam fellow on Dep Defense Secretary Englund’s staff, who was vetted as well as mrs, maleek,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:48 pmHere’s one exhibit.
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/files/import/42945-government%20exhibit%203-85.pdf
I can come up with more if anyone so desires. I felt it was more preferable to respond quickly if not completely.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 2:55 pmWell, then, narciso, I recommend starting here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhZe7eZK4dw
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:05 pmProblem is their “option for charity” only applies to other moslems. They never, never, never, ever help anyone not moslem. And their kind of moslem. That’s not charity, it’s bribery and programming.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:07 pmTheir option for charity for non moslems is a sword at the base of the skull.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:09 pmSteve57
I find you incredibly knowledgeable about Islam, and I think we have similar views on what Islam is and what individual people who call themselves Muslim can be.
In a way it is a little bit like people who call themselves Christian but mean very different things by it,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:27 pmBut indeed, only a little bit because there is no significant percentage of self identified Christians who think they should kill people if they will not convert.
Quran 9:123 At-Tawbah (The Repentance)
I’m not arguing with you, Rev. Hoagie.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:35 pmYou’re right about Steve57 being very knowledgeable about Islam, MD in Philly. He has me thinking and looking up things I haven’t thought about Islam in decades.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:42 pmDoc, I’m sure you know I didn’t wake up one day and decide I was going to denigrate a religion. This just isn’t how I envisioned spending my life. I wish the people who somehow believe I enjoy this could explain to me how this is something I just picked out of the blue. I would happily go my entire life not thinking about Islam if Muslims would let me. Like the Jains. How many times have I mentioned the scourge of Jainism?
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:45 pmActually I’ve kinda sorta mentioned the scourge of Jainism in the past in a sarcastic manner, just to emphasize it’s not a scourge. And the more devout a devotee of Jainism one becomes, the less likely he or she is to kill you. It was worth mentioning because if someone were to research my previous comments it is very likely they could take one of my sarcastic comments about the Jains and use it to imply the opposite of what I meant.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:50 pmSteve57,
I know you are taking about religion but politics and religion are intertwined in the Middle East. What do you think about the ideas espoused by Lee Smith 5 years ago?
DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:52 pmMy short answer, DRJ, is that the idea there is a difference between the sacred and the profane is a western concept.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:58 pmYes, Mark, leftism is mental illness, at Obama’s level. He can no longer hide it.
DRJ, this regime will arrest radicals and imprison them but ONLY if it’s in secret. So, they want to spy on everyone so they can stop a few plots. But as soon as a jihadi goes public, like Hassan or the Boston Bombers, PC is the rule and no one will touch them. The FBI will stand down. The police will roll their eyes when a report comes in. Ticket takers will feel shame when they suspect a Mohammed Atta.
Americans must die to protect his self-annointed role as superior being.
Patricia (5fc097) — 12/14/2015 @ 3:59 pmI’d like to see Jeh Johnson invited to give testimony about this. If he can not give a proper rebuttal to the charges, i’d then like to see an impeachment process start against her.
seeRpea (2c8672) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:05 pmMiddle-eastern Muslims are not the only non-Europeans non-Christians messing with American values and traditions. http://nypost.com/2015/12/13/sensitive-principal-bans-santa-and-other-religious-symbols/
nk (dbc370) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:07 pmThis is a link to the Reliance of the Traveler. I was reluctant to link to it because some people would discredit the source as biased. Be that as it may. You’re going to have to take my word that it corresponds to my Al Azhar University approved hard copy version. Available from Amazon. Read it. Tell me what part of life it doesn’t touch?
http://www.christianissues.biz/pdf-bin/islam/therelianceofthetraveller.pdf
I don’t get the distinction people make between religion and politics. It’s just not something other people draw. I suppose you’d have to go back a few centuries and refer on the divine right of kings to rule to get close to the idea.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:11 pmOT: General Accounting Office says EPA broke the law by using political propaganda ,
seeRpea (2c8672) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:16 pmhttp://www.washingtonexaminer.com/gao-epa-broke-law-promoting-water-regulation-on-social-media/article/2578312
Earlier the good doctor and the Reverend flattered me by complimenting me about what I may know about Islam. What would be better than that? Assume every word I say is a lie, and check it out for yourselves.
To start:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0915957728/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=4968175081&hvqmt=b&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_8q6cexhpxs_b
It’s as good a place to begin as any other. I’m just some guy on the internet. Don’t listen to me.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:18 pmSteve, Medved is definitely out of his depth when he speaks of the need for conservatives to be less confrontational and more “compassionate” (my shorthand for his bloviating.) He supported and was active in RFK’s campaign in 1968, and I believe he witnessed the assassination. He is still rooted in progressive ideas, and I think he believes that they are an essential part of any political platform. He has family in Israeli, and I suspect that he will be quite shocked when Iran nukes Tel Aviv. His is definitely outraged by Trump, since the Trump’s rhetoric contradicts every single rule that Medved believes essential for political success. He gets along fine with all the RINOs, and if he has a guiding light, it shines on the passage that says “win first”. Which is fine if it is a passing thing, but two decades of post-Reagan “Republicanism” puts the lie to the idea that they can really win “first” without understanding and espousing a moral and ethical message. And I don’t regard socialism as either moral or ethical, whether it be Scandinavian or of the Pol Pot variety.
We have many of his audio histories, and they are quite good. Certainly better than anything a K-12 student is exposed to in the government schools. And a better companion for an hour-long drives than most AM radio.
You’re remark about Japanese Destroyer Captain reminds me that I have yet to read the copy I bought on your recommendation. I have just finished Ian Toll’s first two volumes on the Pacific campaign, and they are very good. He closed the second volume with an epilogue that discusses the home life in Japan as the failed war came crashing down on the population. It reminded me lot of Life and Death in Shaghai. Government control penetrated deeply into the society, and aggressive block captains intimidated the all. It was just like China in Mao’s time. The current incumbent in the WH probably regards that level of control as quite optimal. One tragic tale was of a patriotic citizen who devotedly (the Emperor was a God after all) lived only on his government ration. He starved to death.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:20 pmI don’t think you are denigrating anything Steve.
I think people denigrate a religion when they do not allow the people of that religion to say for themselves what it means,
Like when Obama tries to tell ISIS they are not Muslim.
I think Jasser refers to”Theocratic Islam” as being the problem,
Of course those folk say that is the only kind.
My friend who spent years in N. Africa says that Islam is oppressive, and Muslims are oppressed by it.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:20 pmOf course, if they in turn violently oppress others they are no longer the primary victims.
Islam is ‘the Abomination causing Desolation’, there is no escaping that reality.
Child sacrifice, practiced by the Ammonites and Moabites in the Transjordan, taken up once again by their descendants in 1982 until the present.
The duration between the erection of the Dome of the Rock and its resumption in the vale of Hinnom or Gehenna is thus 1290 years.
This is the main event children.
DNF (755a85) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:22 pmSome people make fake references and links to support their BS, thinking no one will check.
I have no reason to doubt your quotations.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:23 pmOk, Steve57, I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear. I don’t care about the dividing lines between religion and politics. My point was what do you think of Lee Smith’s idea that the Middle East doesn’t care about the West or Israel, and all conflict is an Arabic war? That doesn’t work for me but I’m no expert. Maybe I’m being too Western-centric. What do you think?
DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:50 pmBob, I believe it was you who recommended Ian Toll’s Six Frigates to me. Thank you.
Doctor, if you or anyone else doubts my references I’ll move heaven and earth to make things right. Many have mentioned the excessive length of my comments. Rightfully so. I would lie to you, to protect a secret. You learn in intel school about John Philip Cromwell.
http://www.ussnautilus.org/undersea/cromwell.
Secrets, you take to the bottom.
Which sort of doubles the irony that I should ask you to trust me when I profess to be telling the truth. If you think about it, to my mind anyway, you couldn’t trust me if I broke my promise to keep secrets. Which is why I don’t ask anyone to trust me.
Hence my excessively wordy link-heavy comments. I want you to go to my sources and see if I’m lying.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:50 pmDRJ, I’ve been in and out. If you will forgive me a couple of hours I will digest the article at your link and and then comment.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:59 pmThanks for the tip Steve57. I have put the book, Reliance of the Traveller on my Christmas list (ironic or what?). I will ask the person deciding to give me this 1239 page Tomb to allow e t order it through Patterico since this is where I learned of it. Thanks again Steve57.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/14/2015 @ 5:04 pmThe second comment down by The Watchman souned like Steve57.
Thanjs but no rush. Maybe we can revisit this in a week or so.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2015 @ 5:18 pmSteve, I think the book I recommended was Shattered Sword, and you reciprocated with Black Shoe Admiral, so we’re even on that exchange! I’d been eying Six Frigates, and your approval of the book has decided me. I’ll order a copy via Patterico’s link tonight!
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 12/14/2015 @ 5:29 pmI found Toll’s December 7th, to be very informative,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 5:34 pmHmmm,
no, no, no, I do not at all doubt your references, Steve57.
I do not mind your long posts, they are edumacational,
and in the event I am not up to being edumacated at the moment, I have been known not to read them thoroughly….
I have great experience with people who go one with details spinning a story, trying to be convincing, which is simply evidence they are conning you.
No, I have no reason to think you are doing that, no, you are not.
I was just “going off” (politely) on family watching O’Reilly with Kessler on, about the disingenuity of so-called fact checkers who claim to be objective.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 5:37 pmGive me someone who is willing to say where they are and try to back it up any day.
I believe it is in Ezekiel 38 where there is mention of an invasion of a “land without walls and towns without walls”, or some such.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 5:40 pmThe EU is a land without walls, even without borders, and it is being invaded.
Child sacrifice, practiced by the Ammonites and Moabites in the Transjordan,
…
This is the main event children.
DNF (755a85) — 12/14/2015 @ 4:22 pm
Yeah, but we’ve taken it up since the 70’s as well.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/14/2015 @ 5:46 pm80. Yes, but I adduce from Daniel, America does not figger, indeed, Xianity may not figger.
Here, this will not hurt. You all can handle the truth:
http://www.businessinsider.com/american-dream-over-and-voters-know-it-2015-12
DNF (755a85) — 12/14/2015 @ 5:52 pmpar for the course,
http://www.weeklystandard.com/obama-releases-dangerous-jihadists-then-misleads-country-about-it/article/2000221
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:01 pmDRJ r.e. 71, it doesn’t work for me either. For one reason, it’s wrong to distill the Muslim world down to the Arab world. Arabs constitute a minority of Muslims. Most Muslims could care less what difficulties Palestinians have with Israelis. So I don’t think much of the idea that’s what is happening is an Arabic war. How does that explain fact Muslims in the southern provinces of Thailand are killing Buddhists?
I have to caveat this by pointing out I haven’t read the book being reviewed in the article. It may very well be true the Arabic world has been long on the path of destruction. It’s hard to know what conclusions to draw.
Maybe I’m missing something. But I didn’t get a sense of nuance from a review of a book that declared “that inter-Arab conflict is the central crisis of the Middle East.”
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:06 pmShorter version. The Muslim world doesn’t care about the Arab-Israeli conflict. But it’s not Arabs versus non-Arabs.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:09 pm59. IMHO, the Sunni/Shi’a enmity is driving the Syrian conflict and that in Yemen and elsewhere, the Sauds have their own Shi’a minority problems.
But we are well beyond conciliation of any sort with either or both. ‘Bodies will be stacked as cordwood on the plain of Meggido.’
DNF (755a85) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:09 pminfidels come in many flavors, Russians, Buddhists, fellow peoples of the Phillipine archipelago,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:09 pmBerbers in the bled,
Alawites treated the Sunnis like carp since 1943, if not earlier, Maronites did the same to Shia in Lebanon,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:11 pmIt’s funny you mention the Filipinos, narciso. I was having occasion to think of Edwin Price Ramsey. He led the last cavalry charge of the US Army, the 26th Cavalry Regiment of the Philippine Scouts.
He refused to surrender, and as a partisan leader he developed in some part what later became doctrine for the US Army Special Forces.
http://edwinpriceramsey.com/lastcharge.php
One of his Lieutenants, Eliseo Malari, said Ramsey fought like a hungry tiger. I’m sure it’s hubristic of me, but if I could get that on my tombstone I’d die a happy man.
But more to the point, if we can learn about Islam from anyone, we couldn’t do better than our Filipino brethren. Also, Eskrima, which I can’t recommend too highly.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:27 pmagreed, the juramentados, ‘those who swear allegiance’ were the martyrs of the first expedition,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:34 pmThanks, Steve57. I haven’t read the book either and don’t want to be unfair to Mr. Smith. I just have a hard time understanding why they would attack the West so much if they don’t have a problem with us.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:36 pmNo. It’s more important to be remembered as a husband, father, and brother. Never forget that.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:36 pmDRJ, they have a problem with us. It’s ideological. For some reason, I don’t know, we can’t credit them with being adults responsible for their own actions. But they are.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:40 pmit fits into my ‘bete noire’ with ‘colonialism’, so called,
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/654540/posts
the French finally invaded Algeria, and the rest of North Africa, when the Beys got too unmanageable, the same with the Brits fighting against the local warlord in Nigeria, likewise our Philipine endeavor, it wasn’t some grand plan, just out of necessity,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 6:40 pmWhat barbarian worthy of the name would respect a society this frivolous and profligate? http://abcnews.go.com/Health/open-wide-gorilla-visits-dentist/story?id=35758741
nk (dbc370) — 12/14/2015 @ 7:20 pmhe may be in a skin, like the zoo director in the python sketch,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 7:23 pmnarciso, please, do you want to get us both fired?
nk (dbc370) — 12/14/2015 @ 7:26 pmyou would be surprised how many places ‘epistemically closure’ sites like this, well probably not,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 7:28 pmthose words you are using.
http://www.weaselzippers.us/245454-obama-isil-has-not-had-a-single-successful-major-offensive-operation-since-summer/
narciso (732bc0) — 12/14/2015 @ 7:33 pmYou are more obscure than usual. My 96 was the punchline to a joke. Gorilla in the zoo is really a guy in a gorilla suit; one day something happens that puts him in the same cage with a lion; he starts screaming for help; the lion says “Calm down or you’ll get us both fired”.
nk (dbc370) — 12/14/2015 @ 7:34 pm